#linuxcnc Logs
Feb 20 2017
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:29 AM chopper79: Good night everyone.... Had enough fun for the day.
12:51 AM justan0theruser is now known as OfficialLeibniz
01:30 AM MrTrick: Okay, ordered a custom 2-flute end mill with 100mm flutes and 140mm OAL, (ouch)
01:30 AM MrTrick: and bought some 6mm dia 150mm oal end mills from aliexpress.
01:31 AM MrTrick: let's see how we go. ^_^
01:49 AM MacGalempsy: yo :)
01:49 AM XXCoder: hey
01:49 AM MacGalempsy: how goes it?
02:18 AM minibnz: Argh!!! i cannot get my head around the encoder spindle stuff. with the hal scope i can see all the signals are getting in to the card so i think my hardware is ok.. i can control the spindle speed, but only to the extent that i can make it go faster or slower. the number is nothing more than a arbitrary scale. it appears linear so far.. but just cannot get my head around the nets for the encoder and the drive.
02:19 AM minibnz: i figured i should get the encoder velocity value to roughly match the RPM reading i am getting from my physical oscilloscope i have connected to the index lien of the encoder
02:19 AM minibnz: but i cant even seem to get that right..
02:20 AM minibnz: and that machine is not playing nice on the network and now i have a sore neck from craning it around to read the screen..
02:21 AM minibnz: i think the encoder is reading right, there is a value that i can look at in the hal_meter encoder_pos and it goes from 0-1 for a full rotation, i think i have the holes per rev correct..
02:23 AM XXCoder: mac not much just sorting ebooks out
02:23 AM XXCoder: just added massive collection of harry turtledove
02:23 AM XXCoder: minibnz: hope you solve it
02:25 AM minibnz: yeah i will.. its the usual problem i have with open source stuff. the documentation sucks for my particular installation, i end up reading OLD crap but you cant tell that things have changed since that webpage was written so you start and then you find some cryptic message that tells you you have just wasted a day..
02:26 AM Deejay: moin
02:26 AM XXCoder: yeah
02:27 AM minibnz: the network thing is really starting to piss me off.. it was working for a while then it started to drop in and out so i installed all new switches and cables between the two unit and now it dont work at all
02:27 AM minibnz: i can plug any other machine in anywhere and it will work except for this box..
02:28 AM minibnz: cant get it on the net to update stuff.... so i am screwed
02:28 AM minibnz: i could go and start fresh again but no doubt there has been some major rewite to the config files so i will have to pretty much start from scratch...
02:30 AM minibnz: its a problem when something is so powerful because its so configurable.. sometimes it would be nice to a have a simple way to configure things.. pconf only got me this far.
02:30 AM XXCoder: between 2 boxes?
02:31 AM XXCoder: you using ethernet to connect 2 computers together?
02:31 AM minibnz: yup and failing
02:31 AM minibnz: the network ports on my mill just wont respond..
02:32 AM XXCoder: you sure the pc that has inetrnet access is set to switcher mode on that port that connects other box?
02:32 AM minibnz: i have tried the gui and that would drop in and out.. i tried the command line and nothing seems to work.
02:32 AM XXCoder: I use it to connect vp to internet, by going though my pc lol
02:32 AM minibnz: i am unsing mac
02:32 AM minibnz: i am using macs and linux
02:32 AM XXCoder: linux here
02:32 AM XXCoder: linux does allow ethernet port to be switcher
02:32 AM XXCoder: you ust need to use some other method to connect to internet from same box
02:33 AM minibnz: all i am trying to do is put the mill on my network nothing fancy..
02:33 AM XXCoder: in my case its wifi
02:33 AM minibnz: i have a switch/router that the cables all connect to each other as needed.. the linux box is refusing to talk on the network.. no matter what i setup..
02:33 AM minibnz: my mill does not have wifi.
02:34 AM XXCoder: strange.
02:34 AM minibnz: yes... i know...
02:34 AM minibnz: give me any other linux box and i can get it to talk.. i replicate the settings to the mill and it dont work.
02:35 AM minibnz: there is some thing on the mill that has changed and i cant find it..
02:35 AM minibnz: i will forget about the network crap cuz if i go wasting time on that i will get nowhere
02:39 AM archivist: been swapping network cards?
02:42 AM minibnz: built in ports..
02:44 AM minibnz: how do i know if the PID settings are doing anything? they are all set to zero at the moment it appears they are wired in with net and setp calls... how do i tune them?
03:10 AM archivist: er wot, you have a stepper system I thought
03:20 AM minibnz: i have steppers on XYZA but i have a DC motor for the spindle.. trying to work out if/how i set the PID values for the spindle. i dunno even if i need to or should have PID on the spindle its just what pconf has loaded and i am going from there.
03:21 AM archivist: usually the spindle is open loop, just set an rpm
03:22 AM minibnz: I am trying to it up so i can rigid tap.. i figured it needs to be closed loop to do that. so when the tap starts to grip more and slow the spindle the feed rate would slow down or the spindle would get more power to keep the speed up
03:23 AM minibnz: ok if its open loop thats cool. that means the Z axis should slow down when the spindle loads up? right?
03:23 AM minibnz: that is as the spindle revs go down due to load the Z axis should also go slower to keep the ratio correct..
03:24 AM archivist: rigid tap is a following scheme not servo
03:24 AM archivist: so the Z slows as well by reading the encoder
03:24 AM minibnz: when it issued a G33.1 with the spindle going the Z axis started to move i expected as i slowed the spindle the Z axis would slow down too but that feedback loop is broken
03:25 AM archivist: define broken
03:26 AM minibnz: i understand its a following scheme.. and i am trying to link the two axis so they follow but the feedback loop does not appear to be working.. ie when i slow the spindle down the Z axis velocity should follow the speed change, this is not happeing...
03:26 AM archivist: the encoder on the spindle is important as well as the index pulse on the spindle
03:26 AM minibnz: i have a full quadrature encoder output on the spindle.. A B and index
03:26 AM archivist: you have not told it about the spindle encoder properly
03:27 AM minibnz: yes.. thats what i am trying to work out..
03:27 AM archivist: this is not pid
03:27 AM minibnz: yes i know thats not PID..
03:28 AM archivist: you started with <minibnz> how do i know if the PID settings are doing anything? they are all set to zero at the moment it appears they are wired in with net and setp calls... how do i tune them?
03:28 AM minibnz: as a part of setting up the PWM drive for the speed control on the spindle pconf has setup a PID loop for the spindle i was thinking that might have some thing to do with the setup of the spindle..
03:28 AM archivist: so I know you are assuming something :)
03:29 AM minibnz: my end goal is to set it up so i can rigid tap.. and i figured setting up the PID drive for the spindle would help
03:31 AM minibnz: i cannot work out what the hell i am supposed to be doing so i figured i will go thru the config files and see what all the settings are.. you know so i can try and get an idea of how this system works... once i learn about the PID stuff i can say yes or no this has an effect on what i am trying to do.. until i know what it is how do i know they are not connected..
03:32 AM minibnz: zero values for PID did not look right and it caught my eye... if its not important then fine...
03:33 AM minibnz: i still cannot work out what the hell i am doing or doing wrong with getting this spindle to listen to the encoder.
03:33 AM archivist: the one that matters is encoder to motion.spindle
03:33 AM minibnz: i can see the value in spindle.position change from 0->1 as the spindle is turned by hand.. i guess that part is right..
03:33 AM archivist: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/examples/spindle.html#_spindle_synchronized_motion
03:34 AM minibnz: i have had that page open all day and it makes no sense...
03:35 AM archivist: it makes all the sense needed :)
03:35 AM archivist: it is telling motion about the spindle so it can follow
03:37 AM minibnz: and i can find all these line already set i my hal file. they are a little different because i am using a mesa card but i see 90% of the signals and am lost trying to work out the rest of the signals..
03:38 AM minibnz: looks like this big arse bandaid i have been working on all day is the right way to do it.. it feels so wrong having to link so many signals and scale/lowpass filters and whatnot but if thats how its done then i will keep going..
03:38 AM minibnz: i have an idea how to make it work but it just seems so wrong..
03:39 AM archivist: no bodging
03:39 AM minibnz: it all feels like one big bodge..
03:42 AM archivist: each net is like a wire with a signal
03:42 AM minibnz: yeah and it feels like i have been duct taping in little jaycar modules everywhere.
03:44 AM minibnz: at the moment i am trying to get the pwmdrive working better. ie according to scale. when i set 100rpm i want it to go 100rpm etc.. but i have had to(abut to add) modules to get that scaling right first i need to get a dc offset worked out but i cant find that setting
03:44 AM minibnz: well at least for the mesa card.
03:44 AM minibnz: all i get is unknown pin
03:45 AM archivist: you can get a list of pins
03:46 AM minibnz: yup i and this is not listed..
03:46 AM archivist: what
03:46 AM minibnz: need to find out if it actually exists or if i have to turn it on some how.
03:47 AM archivist: are you inventing a pin
03:47 AM minibnz: quite possibly...
03:47 AM minibnz: when i was using the parport i could set a pwm min dc offset.. but i cannot find the same settings for the mesa card i have switched to...
03:48 AM minibnz: i am starting to think these settings dont exist for the mesa and i have to do some stupid module work around
03:50 AM minibnz: yeah looks like the mesa card does not have a dc min or max setting..
03:51 AM minibnz: might have to do stupid tricks to get that to work.. i think the limit function is what i need.
03:54 AM archivist: or reading how to use the hostmot http://forum.linuxcnc.org/49-basic-configuration/28276-mesa-5i25-7i77-0-10v-spindle-output-dual-spindles
03:57 AM minibnz: scale has offset parameter that might help.
03:57 AM R2E4_bevins: mornin
03:57 AM newguy2000: Hi. I am thinking about buying a CNC machine. The Proxxon MF 70 has a kit that is bundled with linuxcnc. Would that be an appropriate way to start? I am a software developer, but I do not know anything about cnc programming.
03:58 AM minibnz: gcode will be easy for you to pick up..
03:58 AM archivist: depends what you want to make as well
03:58 AM minibnz: think of it like logo
03:58 AM archivist: if you can write assembler :)
03:59 AM archivist: some of the syntax os obtuse
03:59 AM newguy2000: I just like the idea of making physical stuff and easily reproduce them. So I would like to start out easy and make something in 2D. Just to cut figures.
03:59 AM archivist: I do hand code for my machines
04:00 AM archivist: some use CAM
04:00 AM newguy2000: What about the CAM software? Is that one of the GUIs that comes with linuxcnc or should I use something else?
04:00 AM archivist: there is a recent addon that makes pointy clicky easier to generate gcode
04:00 AM newguy2000: Is there like a "Hello World" example for linuxcnc?
04:01 AM archivist: it loads one by default
04:02 AM archivist: often first time users try it out with a pen in the spindle, some engrave it
04:04 AM newguy2000: My father has a lot of drawings in AutoCad of cars. I read they can be exported to DXF files and converted to gcode. So if I want to simply want to make that cut. It is 2D. How is the procedure? Export to DXF. Open the DXF file in a CAM software. Save it as gcode. Then ?
04:05 AM R2E4_bevins: You dont really save as Gcode.
04:05 AM archivist: there are utilities like dxf2gcode
04:05 AM R2E4_bevins: You have to do some stuff like select the vector, select the bit feeds and speed depth opf cut etc....... then select post and save toolpath.
04:06 AM archivist: this depends on the article, usual drawing you want to cut outside/inside
04:08 AM minibnz: dxf2gcode does a pretty good job if you want to cut shapes and drill holes. you can select the tool compensation so it will cut inside or outside shape by shape..
04:08 AM R2E4_bevins: Hey guys, I have a three spindle large router I am working on. Everything is converted and working except the tool changer.
04:09 AM R2E4_bevins: I will need to remap to get the toolchanger to work, but for now, I have a job that has to be cut so I am thinking just doing a select spindle type process for now.
04:09 AM newguy2000: Ok. Thanks. I will read about dxf2gcode
04:09 AM R2E4_bevins: I am wandering what the best approach is.
04:10 AM R2E4_bevins: there are some cams you can download and try for free.
04:11 AM archivist: what JT said the other day some gui buttons
04:11 AM R2E4_bevins: Upon a M6TX, send it over to CL and do a select
04:12 AM R2E4_bevins: I have my son, that needs to run this, I dont want him having to press buttons to make it work.
04:12 AM R2E4_bevins: I thought about it, it would work, but rather not do it that way.
04:12 AM R2E4_bevins: I am doing it that way now wiuth hardware button panel.
04:13 AM R2E4_bevins: And I need to figure out how this works anyway......
04:22 AM minibnz: dang.. my encoder is too slow on my spindle.. i am guessing here.. the holes in my aluminium disc are not big enough (with my alignment) to go above 700rpm... thats only 560hz.. surely it can go faster than that..
04:24 AM minibnz: it might not be a problem if the spindle is usually open loop, i open need it for tapping operations, cant really see me trying to go faster than 700rpm with a tap..
04:24 AM minibnz: just wondering what other problems this might cause me later.
05:34 AM arekmx is now known as arekm
05:40 AM minibnz: ok looks like i have the axis linked.. i turned off the spindle's power then issued a M3 S100 G33.1 Z-10 K 0.25 hit enter and then as i spun the spindle the Z axis matched the movement as i hand cranked the spindle.. YAY..
05:41 AM archivist: it should have waited for the index before following
05:41 AM minibnz: now the problem.. i cant reliably run my X axis much past 60mm/min.. this limits me to tiny pitch threads....
05:41 AM minibnz: that it did..
05:41 AM minibnz: but it hangs after that..
05:41 AM archivist: you want slow for tapping
05:42 AM minibnz: the spindle would keep spinning and the z axis stopps..
05:42 AM minibnz: even if i issue a M5 it doesn't listen to anything after the G33
05:43 AM minibnz: estop is the only thing it responds to..
05:43 AM minibnz: and 100rpm is about as slow as i can run my spindle in open loop mode. dunno if i can get it into closed loop mode thats probably askign way too much
05:44 AM minibnz: and with 100rpm and 0.25mm pitch my z axis can only just keep up by the look of it..
05:45 AM archivist: check your maths, and for tapping it should be put into reverse and pulled out anyway
05:45 AM minibnz: maybe my settings are wrong and i cant stop the spindle with speed alone..
05:49 AM minibnz: M3 S100 G33.1 Z-10 K 0.25 maths... this should be good for a thread tap 10mm deep with a pitch of 0.25mm right?
05:49 AM archivist: your backlash is too large for .25 pitch
05:49 AM minibnz: yes it probably is.. anyway..
05:50 AM minibnz: when i run that command i see my z axis peak out at 60mm/min thats the fastest i have run my axis at without it skipping steps.. i cant run a bigger pitch..as my spindle wont spin any slower.
05:55 AM minibnz: would still be nice to know why the command hangs my machine.
05:57 AM archivist: does it reverse?
05:58 AM archivist: motion is waiting for the reverse to unscrew the tap
05:58 AM minibnz: no it just keeps spinning..
05:59 AM minibnz: normally it responds to G3 and G4 and it reverses no problems.
06:00 AM minibnz: the z axis stops but the spindle does not. it just keeps going forward..
06:02 AM archivist: g3 g4 are not forward reverse
06:08 AM archivist: I bet when fiddling with hal you broke forward reverse
06:10 AM minibnz: sorry M3 M4 M5
06:11 AM minibnz: it still goes forward and reverse when i use the right codes.
06:11 AM minibnz: i think the problem is that i have not 'wired' in a proper spindle is at speed signal its always true..
06:14 AM minibnz: actually probably not.. just did a hand spin of the spindle again and yes once it hit the index at the end and i turned the spindle the other way the z axis started to rise.. now the problem is that G33.1 is hanging at the bottom of the hole. maybe the spindle is over spinning when powered..
06:40 AM __rob: is there any reason Tormach have limited the max tools to 256 in their LCNC implementation ?
06:44 AM archivist: the size of the structure in software
06:45 AM XXCoder: can modify software im sure
06:45 AM XXCoder: cell I run has 999 tool ids but pnly 255 ohysical pots
06:45 AM XXCoder: so im sure its configurable
06:46 AM __rob: found the config
06:46 AM __rob: its in their tmc/python/constants.py
06:46 AM __rob: get an error on reboot tho, not loading the software if I edit that value
06:47 AM archivist: the message format to the machine has an upper limit
06:47 AM __rob: not sure how much of this is their stuff and how much is linuxcnc
06:48 AM __rob: archivist, thing is tool 0 is ok, so I 256 is > 8bit uint
06:48 AM archivist: 0-255 !
06:48 AM __rob: yes, but they accept 256
06:48 AM XXCoder: isnt 0 "undefined"
06:48 AM XXCoder: and 8 bit value is 0-255
06:48 AM __rob: so it cant be because its 8bit
06:49 AM archivist: the table itself is fixed size due to a historical silly idea
06:49 AM __rob: also, this would mean they have explicitly changed a datatype to uint8_t some compiled code somwhere
06:49 AM __rob: if other linuxcnc versions are using say 999 tools
06:49 AM __rob: seems unlikely.. why would you do that
06:50 AM __rob: so presumably the underlying datatype is not 8 bit
06:50 AM archivist: all have the limit unless you re compile
06:50 AM archivist: this is a table size not a pointer size
06:51 AM archivist: the entire table is in the NML message or was, would have been better to only send changes
06:51 AM __rob: right
06:52 AM __rob: so a recompile may be required
06:52 AM __rob: shame tormach dont open source their stuff
06:52 AM __rob: thought you have to if the base was gpl
06:52 AM XXCoder: tormach use linuxcnc?
06:52 AM __rob: yeah
06:52 AM __rob: PathPilot is linuxcnc
06:53 AM archivist: they have their own front end, you can recompile with a bigger table iirc
06:53 AM XXCoder: interesting
06:54 AM minibnz: <archivist> you were partially correct.. saying i probably broke reverse.. i did. now i have fixed that.. i have a problem where i need the spindle to stop spinning before change of direction
06:54 AM XXCoder: how did you break it anyway
06:55 AM minibnz: feeding the wrong spindle speed variable. should use spindle-vel-cmd-rpm not spindle-output output is a absolute value my pwmgen needed negative rpm value to go reverse
06:56 AM minibnz: now the relay fires but its too fast and it doesnt like it. a
06:56 AM XXCoder: I wonder if you can see if rpm < x where x is small rpm like 100 rpm then reverse
06:57 AM minibnz: oh also i have an offset i need to change the sign on depending on direction
06:58 AM minibnz: i need to add 600 to my pwm value for forward and take 600 for reverse so the rpms line up.
06:58 AM XXCoder: pipe to pipe connector cutter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnYNEfv5IaY
06:58 AM XXCoder: interesting
07:04 AM minibnz: maybe now its time to get the spindle at speed signal connected to something other than true.
07:15 AM jthornton: that tube notcher can't go the same direction long lol
07:21 AM XXCoder: same direction long how? not too clear
07:21 AM XXCoder: you mean keep winding since wire twist limit?
07:21 AM XXCoder: *there is
07:21 AM jthornton: cord wind up lol
07:28 AM jthornton: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaIqlG1vHs8
07:35 AM minibnz: hmmm i have to device a way to delay the change of speeds.. my motor controller goes into fault mode as soon as i attempt a change of direction even at the slowest speed
07:36 AM jthornton: do you have a braking resistor on the drive?
07:36 AM minibnz: i dunno..
07:36 AM jthornton: without one you can't do stuff like rigid tap
07:37 AM minibnz: oh ok.. i guess i dont have one..
07:37 AM minibnz: i will look into them and see if i have one if not i will see about adding one.
07:44 AM Tom_L: 56°F rain overnight. gonna be a hoomid day
07:51 AM minibnz: hmm mlooks like a braking resistor and capacitor make like a snubber network.. back EMF is asssorbed by the network in the short time while the relay contacts are open and prevent the voltage from rising too high that the controller goes into protection
07:52 AM minibnz: hmmm now to work out what sizes they need to be..
07:52 AM jthornton: your drive manual should tell you
07:53 AM minibnz: hahahaha i am still using the original sieg board that came with the mill.. i have just added/hacked my way in to the box.
07:56 AM minibnz: there is a way.. tom-itx shared his config with me and i think i kinda understand how he did his.. he added a delay through hal.. basically captures the edge of when the speed requested changes signs and used that to trigger delays before making things happen
07:56 AM minibnz: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/sherline/sherline.hal
07:57 AM minibnz: there is his config.. i will still look in to a brake resistor the lathe i have looks to have a very similar sized motor i will see what its got.
07:59 AM minibnz: oh this might require a physical re-wire to move the relay's to gpio pins rather than have them under the pwm control...
08:11 AM chopper79: morning
08:19 AM zeeshan: hi
08:35 AM XXCoder: hey the ze
09:10 AM chopper79: Started on my ATC again this morning and the problem I was having did not fix itself overnight. Still can not reset a coil with (R)
09:13 AM minibnz: chopper79 i have run into that before.. are you testing and setting on the edge or the level of a signal? if you are testing on a level the test is continuously setting the coil before you can clear it..
09:18 AM chopper79: I think I am on the rising edge of the inout signal then I set (S) that output and a couple rungs below I and trying to reset (R) that output.
09:22 AM minibnz: |/\| is rising edge icon
09:22 AM gregcnc: Day off zeeshan?
09:22 AM zeeshan: Yessir
09:22 AM zeeshan: how about you guys?
09:22 AM zeeshan: Next week right?
09:22 AM gregcnc: kids are off today
09:23 AM sync_: got the lathe running yet?
09:23 AM zeeshan: ah
09:23 AM zeeshan: we have "family day" here
09:23 AM zeeshan: lol
09:23 AM minibnz: i gotta go to bed its 2am and i gotta go to work in the morning
09:23 AM minibnz: later all..
09:24 AM chopper79: I have two outputs I am setting. 1 is has an NC input and the other is set by |^| input. Then when I go to reset those outputs the inputs driving the reset rung is |^| rising edge for one and NO for the other.
09:24 AM chopper79: darn he left
09:25 AM gregcnc: i ran plastic lines and push connects to my machines, now the comp is out of the way
09:25 AM zeeshan: nylon tubing?
09:25 AM zeeshan: er
09:25 AM zeeshan: polyurethane i mean
09:25 AM gregcnc: some parker shtuff
09:25 AM zeeshan: parker is $$$
09:26 AM gregcnc: very hard actually
09:26 AM zeeshan: use SMC!!
09:26 AM zeeshan: http://www.smcpneumatics.com/polyu.html
09:26 AM zeeshan: we use so much of this stuff at work
09:26 AM gregcnc: i didn't shop it cam e from mcmaster, so probly double $$
09:26 AM zeeshan: hehe
09:27 AM gregcnc: and finally bolted the aftercooler and stuff to the compressor itself
09:27 AM JT-Shop: my buddy down at the industrial park has a machine less than one year old with worn out slides and leaky valves... SMC
09:27 AM zeeshan: JT-Shop user error
09:27 AM zeeshan: :)
09:27 AM zeeshan: but you're right, we have this one compact cylinder
09:27 AM zeeshan: that wears out a lot on our machines
09:27 AM zeeshan: others are good
09:30 AM JT-Shop: T shirt day :)
09:32 AM gregcnc: we're breaking temperature records daily in Chicago
09:35 AM zeeshan: do you guys know of an oil i can use on my knives
09:35 AM zeeshan: that doesn't go rancid and is food grade
09:35 AM zeeshan: i've tried linseed oil
09:35 AM zeeshan: but i dont like the smell of it
09:37 AM gregcnc: this would make the best garage mill for me. never heard of these before seeing this https://www.instagram.com/p/BQs95LdAcV0/
09:37 AM sync_: way oil
09:38 AM gregcnc: A little Vactra 2 will make those steaks so much better
09:38 AM zeeshan: cute
09:38 AM zeeshan: i've been doing some serious bushcrafting
09:38 AM zeeshan: its for my bushcraft knives
09:38 AM zeeshan: http://i.imgur.com/sL2dVbc.jpg
09:38 AM zeeshan: :D
09:39 AM zeeshan: http://i.imgur.com/sCRK8S3.jpg
09:39 AM zeeshan: i was all iced up
09:39 AM zeeshan: cause i was hiking in the storm we had last week
09:41 AM sync_: gregcnc: typical training vmc
09:41 AM sync_: all manufacturers had them
09:42 AM gregcnc: that is a real machine it seems everythign is proper
09:42 AM gregcnc: 14+1 tools, 10k spindle, only 1500RPM tapping back then
09:43 AM JT-Shop: I like those UPS can't deliver your package spam
09:43 AM CaptHindsight: JT-Shop: I get several variations of those every day
09:44 AM zeeshan: jthornton: my package is coming today!!!!!!!!!
09:44 AM zeeshan: its out for delivery hooray
09:44 AM gregcnc: do you guys go into your spam folders for fun?
09:44 AM JT-Shop: YIPPIE!
09:44 AM CaptHindsight: my UPS should be here in less than 72 minutes
09:45 AM gregcnc: do they both have the app now that tells you about whent eh drivier will show?
09:46 AM CaptHindsight: I go by past history. They tend to show within the same hour every day unless there is some new guy
09:47 AM gregcnc: yeah on a commercial route
09:48 AM CaptHindsight: Fedex and UPS tend to pull in to the lot at the same time from opposite directions
09:49 AM zeeshan: hehe
10:18 AM somenewguy: howdy folks, got a question about circular inerpolating holes
10:18 AM gregcnc: ask away
10:18 AM somenewguy: say you want to make a hole that is a few tool diams deep and a few hole diams wide
10:19 AM somenewguy: is it better to do several helix plunges at increasing diameters to full depth, or mill several pancake pockets at full diam working your way to full depth?
10:19 AM somenewguy: biggest limit for me is machine rigidity, i have a small desktop mill
10:20 AM somenewguy: i am cleaning up some ngcgui routines and can't decide which is the best way to do it
10:20 AM somenewguy: chip clearing is better with pancakes (unless it is a thru hole)
10:20 AM somenewguy: but the endmill and machine are being used in there most rigid direction while plunging
10:21 AM somenewguy: i don't konw where the balance is
10:22 AM gregcnc: experimentation will find it
10:23 AM somenewguy: so you think it will be more case specific and there is no better version?
10:23 AM gregcnc: drilling with the largest drill the machine can handle is much faster than ramping in at the center
10:23 AM gregcnc: if you're pushing the limit of the machine, yes
10:23 AM somenewguy: true, but my spindle is too fast for any reasonable sized drill bit sadly so interpolation comes up a lot if i have to work with SS
10:24 AM somenewguy: saving to build a DC drive w/ speed control, but untill then my minimum spindle speed is 1100 rpm
10:24 AM gregcnc: for a fast spindle but weak machine I do multiple z depth
10:25 AM somenewguy: as in a full spiral at a fixed depth, over and over?
10:25 AM gregcnc: yes
10:26 AM somenewguy: ok thanks
10:26 AM gregcnc: but it can very and you just have to try
10:26 AM gregcnc: vary
10:26 AM somenewguy: thats convenient because i already have a nice sub for doing annulus that that i just need to gut the center bore feature from
10:27 AM somenewguy: it actually already pockets if you give it a 0 id parameter, but it is actually the first sub i ever wrote so it could use a little refactoring.
10:27 AM Wolf_: floppy machine weak machine = http://i.imgur.com/IKemF8k.png?1
10:28 AM zeeshan: lol
10:28 AM zeeshan: jesus
10:28 AM gregcnc: yeah, done plenty of .5mm passes
10:28 AM zeeshan: i hope that part is 20" tall
10:28 AM somenewguy: curse 3d modeling, i tried to rotate and zoom on that img
10:28 AM zeeshan: to warrant that many passes!
10:28 AM Wolf_: lol
10:28 AM somenewguy: haha that looks perfectly normal to me!
10:28 AM somenewguy: i love my taig, but rigid it is not
10:28 AM Wolf_: nema 23 mount on a x1 mill
10:29 AM * zeeshan does that that kind of crap in 2 passes with adaptive
10:29 AM zeeshan: :D
10:29 AM zeeshan: WIN!!!!!!!!!
10:29 AM gregcnc: Zeeshan i want to see you piick up your machine
10:29 AM zeeshan: fork lift
10:29 AM zeeshan: no pron
10:29 AM zeeshan: prob
10:30 AM zeeshan: i think this week
10:30 AM gregcnc: says the guy with no lathe
10:30 AM Wolf_: yeah, some day I’ll have something that will actually handle full DOC of my cutters lol
10:30 AM zeeshan: i finally get to try out some adaptive paths at the new mills
10:31 AM zeeshan: gregcnc: i have no mill too right now
10:31 AM zeeshan: hopefully today that will change
10:31 AM zeeshan: im upgrading computers on it
10:31 AM zeeshan: got sick of that slow ass piece of shit athlon xp on it
10:31 AM gregcnc: mine is P3 900
10:32 AM gregcnc: lol all my stuff is like that
10:34 AM zeeshan: http://i.imgur.com/mTcFrOn.png
10:34 AM zeeshan: i pretty much have all the vise models setup
10:35 AM zeeshan: to be parametric
10:35 AM zeeshan: so easy to cut soft jaws now
10:35 AM gregcnc: that's the way to go
10:36 AM zeeshan: if a designer changes a part now
10:36 AM zeeshan: all the cam tool paths follow the design
10:36 AM zeeshan: as long as it's nothin major
10:36 AM zeeshan: like for this design, they moved the hole positions and the protrusion length
10:36 AM zeeshan: it all updated
10:40 AM * zeeshan hopes the cnc machinists will learn inventor and be able to understand whats going on
10:43 AM zeeshan: thanks JT i got all the mesa parts :D
10:44 AM zeeshan: antistatic bubble wrap. i like
10:44 AM zeeshan: fuck
10:45 AM zeeshan: i shoulda noted down what all my jumper settings were on the 5i25
10:48 AM Roguish: zeeshan: what cad is that?
10:48 AM zeeshan: autodesk inventor
10:48 AM Roguish: nice work.
10:52 AM zeeshan: ty!
10:58 AM zeeshan: im swapping from a 5i25 to 6i25
10:58 AM zeeshan: where are the bit files stored?
11:00 AM zeeshan: nm
11:00 AM zeeshan: :D
11:01 AM jensor: When I try to use "parport.0.pin-1-out-invert" in place of "parport.0.pin-1-out" I get an error : pin parport.0.pin-1-out-invert does not exist.
11:01 AM jensor: How can I get the inverse?
11:02 AM zeeshan: use -in-not
11:02 AM jensor: I'll try that.
11:03 AM jensor: Wait the port is an out
11:03 AM cradek: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/parallel-port.html
11:03 AM cradek: this says invert is a parameter
11:03 AM cradek: you can't net a parameter, you just have to setp it
11:04 AM jensor: ok we'll try that
11:04 AM * zeeshan didnt notice the out
11:04 AM zeeshan: :D
11:10 AM gregcnc: printed mic stand? www.ebay.com/itm/252704673537
11:12 AM zeeshan: i like
11:19 AM gregcnc: the uber mic stand >200USD and made in china.... take my money
11:19 AM gregcnc: https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/09182908
11:21 AM archivist: have they sold any at all at that price
11:23 AM jensor: Trying net Y_phaseA => parport.2.pin-08-out
11:23 AM jensor: setp parport.2.pin-08-out FALSE. This doesn't work gives error that poirt is connected to a signal.
11:24 AM jensor: this is for a quadrature sig gen
11:24 AM jensor: Just rying to invert the phase
11:25 AM jensor: In lieu of using a not component
11:27 AM archivist: did you not see http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/parallel-port.html#_parameters
11:28 AM zeeshan: gregcnc: i still think that uber mitutoyo stand is better
11:28 AM zeeshan: cause it has weight
11:28 AM jensor: Ok I'll try that.
11:28 AM zeeshan: the plastic one looks like it'll tip
11:32 AM skunkworks: jensor, parport.<p>.pin-<n>-out-invert
11:34 AM skunkworks: so setp parport.2.pin-08-out-invert true
11:35 AM jensor: I'll try - does "true" have to be lower case?
11:38 AM jensor: net Y_phaseA => parport.2.pin-07-out
11:38 AM jensor: net Y_phaseA => parport.2.pin-07-out
11:38 AM jensor: setp parport.2.pin-08-out-invert TRUE
11:39 AM _nexxus__ is now known as _nexxus_
11:44 AM jensor: cradek see http://pastebin.com/MrQnCsQg
11:44 AM jensor: <skunkworks> See http://pastebin.com/MrQnCsQg
11:46 AM skunkworks: what are you trying to solve?
11:47 AM jensor: I'm tr5ying to invert the signal on one of the parport pins
11:48 AM jensor: One pin gets the sig , while another gets the not sig
11:48 AM cradek: how are you testing the result?
11:48 AM jensor: with the show hal in axis
11:48 AM cradek: what are you showing?
11:49 AM cradek: the two -out pins will show the same because they are netted together
11:49 AM jensor: both pins are the same either on or off together
11:49 AM cradek: to see the inversion you will need to use a meter or logic probe on the actual port
11:50 AM jensor: I'll try to change the sig name
11:50 AM cradek: no, stop a second
11:50 AM cradek: I'm trying to tell you your expectations are incorrect
11:50 AM skunkworks: No... It is working - you just need to look at the physical pins to see the change
11:50 AM cradek: the invert parameter says the pin on the hardware port should be the inverse of the hal pin's value
11:50 AM jensor: with a meter?
11:51 AM Deejay: better use a meter than a yard ;)
11:51 AM jensor: ha
11:52 AM jensor: so, the show hal show's the hal sig, not the port value?
11:52 AM cradek: yes
11:52 AM jensor: even tho it is connected to the port
11:53 AM jensor: ok we'll check that
01:18 PM Tom_L: zeeshan, the 5I and 6I use the same bitfiles
01:18 PM zeeshan: in an hour im going to go hook up this card
01:18 PM zeeshan: and see what blows up
01:19 PM Tom_L: if i see a flash on the northern horizon i'll know...
01:19 PM Wolf_: everything
01:20 PM Tom_L: you canucks celebrate our president's day too?
01:21 PM zeeshan: no
01:22 PM zeeshan: its "family day" here
01:23 PM Tom_L: so you're on irc and playing with your lathe stuff...
01:23 PM cradek: lathes have families too
01:37 PM JT-Shop: dang clone a branch this morning and build then try to pull and I get a butt full of merge conflicts wth
01:49 PM Tom_L: may as well start the week off with a Monday!
01:50 PM JT-Shop: at least the blueberry greek yogurt was very good and had a real blueberry in it
01:51 PM Tom_L: yeah i like those
01:52 PM gregcnc: just one blueberry?
01:53 PM JT-Shop: well maybe a couple
01:55 PM JT-Shop: I'm just having a hell of a time trying to test external offsets and per seq homing branches :(
02:05 PM roycroft: the yogurt i get comes with a little tub of fruit on the top that i mix in when eating it
02:08 PM JT-Shop: I get the greek lite with only 80 calories
02:10 PM roycroft: i don't know how many calories mine has, but i'm pretty sure it's more than 80
02:11 PM roycroft: but still a fairly light breakfast
02:11 PM JT-Shop: that's my lunch
02:12 PM JT-Shop: I have 3 cracker size pre-sliced cheddar cheese for breakfast
02:21 PM roycroft: having recommended you make a lunch for your wife to take to work the other day, i really should start doing that again myself
02:21 PM roycroft: the town where i work 3 days/week has poor choices in places to eat
02:21 PM roycroft: so i tend to eat bad food for lunch
02:32 PM Tom_L: pack a lunch
02:39 PM AndChat|234416 is now known as MacGalempsy
02:39 PM MacGalempsy: hello
02:40 PM MacGalempsy: anyone bbqing today?
02:40 PM JT-Shop: had a piece of home made jerky a while ago
02:41 PM MacGalempsy: sounds tasty.
02:42 PM MacGalempsy: ive been reading the forum on raspberry pi running lcnc. anyone in here have any luck running it in real time w decent latency?
02:43 PM Tom_L: just trying not to cook electronics here
02:43 PM MacGalempsy: :) whatcha working on tom?
02:43 PM Tom_L: tryin to set up another pc
02:44 PM Tom_L: probably should have a case for it... but ya know how it goes
02:44 PM Tom_L: pure bench testing :D
02:44 PM MacGalempsy: what kind of pc?
02:45 PM Tom_L: i've got a spare asrock board i'm messin with
02:56 PM zeeshan: ofcourse, what did i expect
02:56 PM zeeshan: serial port not communicating! :{
02:57 PM MacGalempsy: bummer. whats up zeeshan?
02:57 PM zeeshan: i see the serial port in the dmesg
02:57 PM zeeshan: but the driver i wrote a while back
02:57 PM zeeshan: is telling me the vfds arent responding
02:57 PM MacGalempsy: lathe work?
02:57 PM zeeshan: no for the mill
02:57 PM zeeshan: im upgrading the computer for it
02:58 PM MacGalempsy: cool
02:59 PM zeeshan: startup routine: loadrt hostmot2 loadrt hm2_pci loadrt threads addf hm2_5i25.0.read thread1 addf hm2_5i25.0.write thread1
02:59 PM zeeshan: i found the manual routine to bypass all the configs
02:59 PM zeeshan: i forgot the command where im supposed to type this stuff
02:59 PM zeeshan: i dont think its halcmd
03:00 PM zeeshan: oh it is halrun
03:00 PM MacGalempsy: yeah :p
03:00 PM JT-Shop: http://www.mesaus.com/info/linuxcnc.html
03:01 PM JT-Shop: http://www.mesaus.com/info/mesa-pins.txt
03:01 PM zeeshan: its not mesa yet
03:01 PM zeeshan: its failing on the serial port
03:01 PM zeeshan: im using the serial port to talk to the vfds
03:01 PM zeeshan: it's getting a blank response
03:02 PM zeeshan: MacGalempsy: what distribution are you running
03:02 PM MacGalempsy: 2.8 pre on linux mint 17.3 64bit
03:03 PM zeeshan: is there a reason you didnt go with wheezy
03:03 PM MacGalempsy: because jt said mint was easy to use
03:04 PM zeeshan: O
03:04 PM gregcnc: this mic stand is more my budget http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Silverfox_ND/media/Reloading%20Pics--Tools/MicHolder_sideview--small.jpg.html
03:04 PM MacGalempsy: also for some reason the 32bit standard dist was cause causing problems w the mb
03:05 PM MacGalempsy: video issues. after going to 64bit it all went away
03:05 PM zeeshan: rofl gregcnc
03:05 PM zeeshan: which mobo
03:06 PM MacGalempsy: j1900n_d3v
03:07 PM MacGalempsy: im back working, so trying to put together a plan for a new system to simulate with
03:18 PM zeeshan-shop: so weird
03:18 PM zeeshan-shop: the response im getting is 0x0
03:18 PM zeeshan-shop: which means null!
03:25 PM zeeshan-shop: looks like 7i77 is working
03:25 PM zeeshan-shop: :)
03:32 PM * JT-Shop takes a monkey pickle break
04:00 PM zeeshan: the damn IDC to db9 cable
04:00 PM zeeshan: is at fault
04:00 PM zeeshan: its wired wrong
04:07 PM JT-Shop: for your vfd?
04:07 PM chopper79: after 12hrs of messing around with CL and trying to get this output to reset using a (R) coil I have to say I am at a loss on why it will not reset still. The output I am trying to reset was set with a (S) coil so I do not understand why I can not reset the darn thing. The CL program hangs right at that output. If it to opertate then the tool change finishes.
04:18 PM cradek: are you sure no other rung sets that output?
04:18 PM chopper79: I will check again
04:18 PM cradek: even in another page
04:18 PM cradek: section? I forget what they're called
04:18 PM JT-Shop: your a naughty boy for using set and reset... and don't forget last one wins on outputs
04:19 PM chopper79: I know..... I just could not think of any other way to achieve my goal
04:19 PM cradek: I like S/R just fine
04:19 PM JT-Shop: so if you have a set after a reset and the set rung is still true then it will always be set
04:19 PM chopper79: so set and rest seemed to fit
04:20 PM cradek: it seems like I always used S/R with edge triggers (^ and v)
04:21 PM jdh: I like set/reset
04:22 PM chopper79: ok...looked at it all again and I have my two set outputs on one section and the resets to them on another section
04:23 PM chopper79: post for earlier today: I have two outputs I am setting. 1 is has an NC input and the other is set by |^| input. Then when I go to reset those outputs the inputs driving the reset rung is |^| rising edge for one and NO for the other.
04:27 PM chopper79: The rising edge input that goes to the reset output is the one that is not resetting. The other one I am not sure of yet unitl I get this one to act right. If I change the rising edge inout to a NO input then rung is completed. Almost like therising edge inout is not letting the signal pass. Event though the bit output that is tapped into that rung works fine.
04:27 PM Deejay: gn8
04:30 PM JT-Shop: it doesn't matter what section their in
04:30 PM chopper79: The rising edge inout is being driven by the output of carosuel.0.ready to CL out
04:31 PM chopper79: ok... outputs are both set and then the next section they are reset. no other sets happening to those outputs inbetween.
04:31 PM JT-Shop: when you can't tell if an input is firing put a counter on it
04:32 PM JT-Shop: doesn't matter where they are
04:32 PM JT-Shop: you can have a set then in the next section a reset and if both are on the output is reset
04:32 PM chopper79: hmm....good call. did not think abotu that. I will insert a counter and see what happens. I was using HAL meter to monitor that inout and is shows it going high (True)
04:35 PM chopper79: Sounds like I need to manipulate it somehow then
04:37 PM chopper79: Well.... I will give it a try later on. Need to go help kiddos with homework.
04:37 PM chopper79: thanks everyone.... will update as I go along.
05:01 PM gregcnc: conley is retiring! Won't mean anything if you don't know what he did https://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/bfs/6012246651.html
05:48 PM zeeshan-shop: yay got it working!!!!!!!!!111
05:48 PM zeeshan-shop: it was the damn idc to db9 cable
05:48 PM zeeshan-shop: they had it wired up all wonky. resoldered it. works
05:48 PM zeeshan-shop: im glad i didnt have to do any config changes to go from 5i25 to 6i25
05:49 PM zeeshan-shop: =D
05:55 PM JT-Shop: I'm having problems with everything today...
05:55 PM pfred1: I had some bad stuff here too
05:56 PM pfred1: I cracked open a PSU and saw this http://i.imgur.com/7phryzL.jpg
05:56 PM pfred1: no more Antec for me
05:57 PM JT-Shop: ouch
05:57 PM pfred1: funny thing is it worked for a while
05:57 PM pfred1: I can't imagine how
05:58 PM CaptHindsight: carbon assisted power conditioning
05:58 PM pfred1: because it looks to me like they just didn't put in any insulating fiah paper between the case, and the board, then left leads long
05:58 PM pfred1: fish paper even
05:59 PM CaptHindsight: do you think that the board flexed and then shorted to the case?
05:59 PM CaptHindsight: or did something die slowly
05:59 PM JT-Shop: I snapped a $16 m3 form tap because I got some bad info on the hole size
05:59 PM JT-Shop: on a 50 cent part
05:59 PM pfred1: try tapping stainless steel with little taps
06:00 PM pfred1: you'll swear it just ain't possible
06:00 PM pfred1: the trick is to bore way too big a hole
06:00 PM CaptHindsight: 180 deg turn and back out
06:01 PM CaptHindsight: have you tried tapping stainless with a tapping head?
06:01 PM CaptHindsight: I have never
06:01 PM JT-Shop: first reply from osg was a #38 seems a bit tight so the taps snap off, found out a #35 is a better hole
06:01 PM pfred1: yup sounds about right
06:02 PM pfred1: if a hole is undersize you can be careful as can be and still snap a tap
06:02 PM CaptHindsight: I hand tap M3 in 6061 all the time
06:03 PM pfred1: it don't take much thread in a lot of material to hold though
06:03 PM CaptHindsight: keeping the tap clean is also a problem
06:03 PM JT-Shop: I'm not hand tapping a hundred holes
06:03 PM CaptHindsight: not fun
06:04 PM pfred1: you have a tapping head?
06:05 PM JT-Shop: me yes but that is for the manual mill, I'm rigid tapping on the VMC... maybe the floating tap holder will help
06:06 PM pfred1: I guess you cound write a canned super careful tapping cycle too
06:06 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.usedmachineryauctions.com/cgi-bin/mnlist.cgi?usedmachinery9/31 Clausing Engine Lathe, 13" x 36"
06:06 PM JT-Shop: just need the correct hole size lol
06:06 PM pfred1: well yeah
06:06 PM JT-Shop: just found a good page on metric form taps
06:07 PM pfred1: I thought there was a formula for metric taps?
06:07 PM pfred1: like the size somehow relates to the size hole
06:07 PM JT-Shop: for cutting taps subtract the pitch from the nominal diameter
06:08 PM JT-Shop: m6x1=m5 hole
06:09 PM pfred1: I don't even have a full metric tap and die set
06:09 PM pfred1: just some odds and ends
06:09 PM pfred1: I keep thinking about picking one up then maybe I'd like metric hardware a bit better
06:10 PM pfred1: there's certainly US thread forms I don't like too much like 6-32
06:11 PM pfred1: they're weak
06:11 PM CaptHindsight: https://chicago.craigslist.org/nch/tls/6010329846.html any idea what make this lathe is?
06:11 PM CaptHindsight: not a very rigid headstock
06:15 PM JT-Shop: what makes the best hole a spiral or straight flute reamer?
06:17 PM Tom_L: i generally use straight flute
06:17 PM Tom_L: i suppose you could argue spiral
06:18 PM CaptHindsight: http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/434-Reamers-straight-or-spiral-flutes
06:18 PM Tom_L: can i use a 20 pin PSU plug on a 24 pin MB socket? book says yes but i can't get it to power up
06:18 PM CaptHindsight: "a spiral reamer will cut smoth in a split bushing, a straight flute will dig in at the seam"
06:18 PM Tom_L: wasn't aware it was split
06:19 PM CaptHindsight: seems to be an application where it matters
06:19 PM CaptHindsight: for JT it doesn't matter
06:20 PM Tom_L: for me, it's generally a 'use what ya got' case
06:20 PM Tom_L: can't get this damn mb to power up
06:20 PM Tom_L: the psu is good on another board
06:20 PM Tom_L: it's a new mb that has been run a bit so i know it's good
06:21 PM pfred1: I've had issues with 20 pin connectors with a video dapter plugged into a system
06:21 PM pfred1: onboard 20 pins seems to work?
06:21 PM Tom_L: nothing is plugged in yet except the 20 pin connector and the front pannel button
06:21 PM Tom_L: i may pull out my 12v supply and try it
06:21 PM CaptHindsight: a spiral can handle split or interrupted cuts, where a straight can't as well
06:22 PM Tom_L: those little psu thingies
06:22 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight my other concern would be chatter
06:22 PM Tom_L: on a straight flute
06:22 PM pfred1: all of my HP PC came wiht 20 pin PSUs and when i put video cards in them i have to upgrade the PSU to 24 pins then
06:22 PM Tom_L: that's more a feed / speed issue though
06:23 PM CaptHindsight: "spiral flutted reamers can be run at much higher speed without chatter. They also unload the chips better."
06:23 PM CaptHindsight: but they cost more to make
06:24 PM CaptHindsight: you need a spiral to ream a hole with a keyway
06:24 PM pfred1: here's a page about 20+4 pin connectors http://www.playtool.com/pages/psucompat/compat.html
06:25 PM pfred1: unfortunately what they say is it may, and it may not work
06:26 PM pfred1: yeah the extra 4 pins do supply the pcie slot http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/connectors.html#atxmain24
06:31 PM zeeshan: wow pfred1 thats a nice kaboom
06:32 PM CaptHindsight: did the PSU let out the smoke after installing the new video card?
06:33 PM Tom_L: ok, the PICO psu works
06:33 PM pfred1: zeeshan yeah it's bad
06:33 PM * JT-Shop calls it a night
06:33 PM Tom_L: been one helluva day for sure
06:33 PM pfred1: I'm done wiht Antec i used to think they were decent
06:33 PM JT-Shop: yea
06:33 PM zeeshan: they are supposed to be good
06:33 PM zeeshan: but apparently not
06:33 PM JT-Shop: can't wait for tomorrow lol
06:33 PM pfred1: I just ordered a seasonic PSU
06:34 PM Tom_L: it's certainly been a Monday
06:34 PM pfred1: wasn't much more really
06:34 PM CaptHindsight: JT-Shop: do you carry the 7i87?
06:34 PM pfred1: has Japanese capacitors in it not teapos
06:35 PM pfred1: ball bearing fan not sleeved
06:36 PM zeeshan: man this is the first time i've changed a motherboard on a working linux computer
06:36 PM zeeshan: im surprised that everything worked
06:36 PM zeeshan: there was no linux reconfig i had to do?
06:36 PM pfred1: I had a PSU blow up in a PC once and it took the mobo out
06:36 PM zeeshan: if i tried to do that on a windows computer
06:36 PM zeeshan: it'd error out to shit
06:37 PM pfred1: so yeah i took the HDD out put it in another PC and it ran
06:37 PM pfred1: linux configures hardware on boot
06:38 PM pfred1: if you got the drivers it will run
06:38 PM CaptHindsight: if you are running a giant kernel from a distro
06:38 PM pfred1: rype dmesg in a console that is all the messages that scroll by when you boot
06:39 PM pfred1: as the Linux kernel auto detects hardware
06:40 PM pfred1: there's little difference between a HDD and a live session these days
06:41 PM zeeshan: i thought it was just detecting the current stuff :P
06:41 PM zeeshan: lol
06:41 PM pfred1: well yeah whatever hardware you have is your current stuff
06:41 PM zeeshan: JT-Shop2: the h81m-s2h-gsm
06:41 PM zeeshan: is a hell of a lot faster
06:42 PM zeeshan: than what i was running
06:42 PM zeeshan: pfred1: it didnt detect my new wifi usb card tho
06:42 PM zeeshan: :
06:42 PM zeeshan: =/
06:42 PM pfred1: it detected it it just doesn't have a driver for it
06:43 PM pfred1: type lsusb
06:43 PM zeeshan: after im done machining this big job i have over the next couple of days
06:43 PM pfred1: I bet it's there
06:43 PM zeeshan: i will reinstall to mint
06:43 PM zeeshan: i think youre right
06:43 PM zeeshan: ill check next time im on the comp
06:43 PM pfred1: Linux is good but it's not a magician
06:44 PM jthornton: yea the h81m is a good one
06:44 PM pfred1: now your kernel may have the driver but whoever built it just may not have included it
06:45 PM pfred1: most drivers are loadable modules today
06:45 PM zeeshan: jthornton: are you still running this:
06:45 PM zeeshan: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/29917-linux-mint-with-rtai
06:47 PM pfred1: I think RTAI is kind of dying
06:47 PM CaptHindsight: nah
06:47 PM pfred1: I'm on their mailing list and they're not developing it much anymore
06:47 PM CaptHindsight: the developer just stopped submitting patches to RTAI.org
06:48 PM zeeshan: nooooooooo
06:48 PM pfred1: doesn't LinuxCNC work with RT?
06:48 PM zeeshan: yes
06:48 PM zeeshan: but noooooo to the death of rtai
06:48 PM zeeshan: :{
06:48 PM pfred1: well there you go
06:49 PM CaptHindsight: paulo would take all the work, remove the headers with the authors name
06:49 PM pfred1: I was never too keen on building a patched RTAI kernel myself anyways
06:50 PM CaptHindsight: make some changes and push it to git
06:50 PM zeeshan: what is being "patched"?
06:50 PM pfred1: you apply a code patch to a source tree
06:50 PM zeeshan: why is it not there to begin with
06:51 PM CaptHindsight: most of the RTAI development in the past 2-3 years went on across the room from me
06:51 PM pfred1: the path is a bunch of edits to the original source
06:51 PM zeeshan: ah
06:51 PM pfred1: because it is an alteration
06:51 PM zeeshan: so linuxmint never intended to be a rtai
06:51 PM zeeshan: so you gotta modify the kernel source
06:51 PM pfred1: nope
06:51 PM zeeshan: to make it happen
06:51 PM pfred1: there's lots of patches
06:51 PM zeeshan: and the reason to run linuxmint to begin with is because it's an easy to use interface
06:51 PM zeeshan: with lots of support?
06:51 PM zeeshan: :)
06:51 PM pfred1: patching is how software changes re distributed
06:52 PM sync_: CaptHindsight: so where does it end up if not at rtai?
06:52 PM pfred1: heck the patch command can take email as an input
06:52 PM CaptHindsight: mint has drivers for newer hardware as well
06:52 PM zeeshan: so my usb wifi adapter might just work automatically
06:52 PM zeeshan: its so painful setting up drivers
06:52 PM zeeshan: modprobe this
06:52 PM zeeshan: mod probe that
06:52 PM zeeshan: z
06:52 PM pfred1: but the process of patching is sometimes sketchy
06:52 PM pfred1: failed chunks and what have you
06:53 PM pfred1: once you have the driver installed Linux should just use it
06:54 PM pfred1: hardware has flags
06:54 PM pfred1: Linux has a table of those flags that it associates drivers to hardware with
06:54 PM CaptHindsight: sync_: https://github.com/NTULINUX/RTAI was the last public branch
06:55 PM pfred1: though the table is sometimes incomplete
06:55 PM pfred1: I've had to add hardware to it
06:55 PM zeeshan: does 64bit work with linuxcnc?
06:56 PM zeeshan: mint x64
06:56 PM CaptHindsight: RTAI works with 64b and Linuxcnc
06:56 PM jthornton: I think there are a few issues on rt preempt
06:56 PM pfred1: I don't have much experience with 64 bits myself so I don't know
06:56 PM zeeshan: jthornton: what are you running
06:57 PM jthornton: 32bit
06:57 PM zeeshan: 18.1?
06:57 PM CaptHindsight: jthornton: do you carry the 7i87?
06:57 PM pfred1: whenever I've tried to run 64 bits I've always had issues
06:57 PM zeeshan: okay 32bit it is
06:57 PM pfred1: I'm hoping things improve
06:58 PM CaptHindsight: pfred1: what issues did you have with 64b?
06:58 PM pfred1: right now I'm running ito the opposite some things don't support 32 bits anymore
06:59 PM jthornton: I don't have the 7i87 in stock
06:59 PM pfred1: I've also ditched all the 32 bit software I used to run now too
06:59 PM CaptHindsight: jthornton: thanks
07:01 PM jthornton: maybe I need to add that one
07:01 PM pfred1: well, that may not be true? I wonder if I can get a 64 bit acrobat reader client?
07:02 PM pfred1: I still like acrobat the best for reading pdf files although there are alternatives
07:02 PM CaptHindsight: jthornton: I don't think that it's that popular
07:03 PM pfred1: heck I still like Eagle the best for designing PCBs but with Autodesk owningCadsoft now it is just a matter of time before they drop Linux support entirely
07:03 PM CaptHindsight: analog inputs mostly
07:03 PM jthornton: I think the same thing
07:03 PM pfred1: autodesk hates Linux
07:03 PM CaptHindsight: I use if for temperature and level monitoring
07:04 PM jthornton: https://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=72
07:04 PM jthornton: that's the smart serial cards currently in stock
07:04 PM jthornton: that makes sense
07:04 PM CaptHindsight: yeah digital IO
07:05 PM CaptHindsight: plus you can use *duinos and similar to monitor analog signals
07:05 PM * jthornton heads upstairs to the cocina to cook
07:10 PM CaptHindsight: what gets me is that Paulo won't give anyone else credit for their work
07:11 PM CaptHindsight: I wonder how much of the early RTAI work was actually his
07:11 PM sync_: CaptHindsight: sick memes by that alec guy :)
07:11 PM CaptHindsight: one theory is that he does it to look good at his university
07:11 PM pfred1: dank memes
07:15 PM Jymmm: Kinda cool... https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Cheapest-4-Hole-Adjustable-Brass-Spray-Misting-Nozzle-Garden-Sprinklers-Irrigation-Fitting-Home-gardern-tools/2066062_32682473104.html
07:17 PM Tom_L: made from brass door knobs sold to china from Chernobyl
07:18 PM CaptHindsight: I like the long German words in the description
07:19 PM CaptHindsight: Mr. Mister
07:22 PM CaptHindsight: have to make some cuts 42" long from some 3003 0.080" sheet but my shear is only 30"
07:23 PM CaptHindsight: non-ferrous blade in circular saw, get a bigger shear, score and break, or ?
07:23 PM CaptHindsight: now a bigger laser or waterjet could be handy
07:24 PM Tom_L: saw would be deafening but would work
07:24 PM CaptHindsight: bring sheets back to supplier and have them re-cut
07:25 PM CaptHindsight: I think I need to cut ~1" off
07:26 PM Tom_L: would be cheaper than buying a waterjet
07:28 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, but think of all the things a waterjet can do! :)
07:29 PM CaptHindsight: wasn't there a low cost waterjet from that ME student down in Texas?
07:29 PM CaptHindsight: think he found a cheap Chinese source for pumps
07:29 PM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: carbide tip blade in table saw
07:29 PM Tom_L: i don't recall that one
07:30 PM Tom_L: 80 tooth blade would work
07:30 PM Jymmm: Not even 80 tooth, just whatever came with my craftsman
07:30 PM CaptHindsight: was Pennvs Texas
07:31 PM Jymmm: you'll have chips in your hair, pockets, etc, but it even leaves a VERY nice finish
07:31 PM CaptHindsight: http://hackaday.com/2014/01/14/hydro-the-low-cost-waterjet-cutter/
07:31 PM CaptHindsight: Jymmm: I use a non-ferrous blade in a miter saw for extrusions
07:31 PM CaptHindsight: I must be deaf since it's not that bad
07:32 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1294137530/the-first-desktop-waterjet-cutter
07:32 PM CaptHindsight: too small for my applications
07:33 PM CaptHindsight: $5,999 MSRP
07:33 PM Jymmm: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1294137530/the-first-desktop-waterjet-cutter?utm_source=AMLsite&utm_medium=social&utm_content=AMLsite&utm_campaign=kickstarter
07:34 PM CaptHindsight: wow, taking a year to make them
07:35 PM CaptHindsight: oh and they don't mention how often you will go through consumables
07:35 PM zeeshan: hmm
07:35 PM zeeshan: im seriously considering that
07:35 PM zeeshan: thats cheap
07:35 PM zeeshan: for a waterjet
07:36 PM zeeshan: even w/ consumables
07:36 PM CaptHindsight: I spent a few minutes looking for suitable pumps
07:36 PM CaptHindsight: found a few in China for a few hundred $$
07:37 PM CaptHindsight: was actually tempted to sell and ship units before they ship theirs
07:39 PM zeeshan: ive looked into it too in the past
07:39 PM CaptHindsight: their project is also scared of Linuxcnc
07:39 PM zeeshan: i was coming across 22000$ for the pump components
07:39 PM zeeshan: lol
07:39 PM Jymmm: HAHAHA I like it.... https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/1Pc-Removable-Funny-Vivid-Bathroom-Toilet-Entrance-Sign-Wall-Stickers-for-Home-Decor-Black-Hot-Popular/2066062_32633613680.html
07:40 PM CaptHindsight: https://wardjet.com/products/waterjets/wardkit
07:41 PM Jymmm: $84K ?!
07:42 PM CaptHindsight: and maybe sell 1 per month
07:42 PM CaptHindsight: profit >$100K/yr
07:43 PM CaptHindsight: vs sell hundreds at $5k and profit ~$10k/yr
07:43 PM CaptHindsight: why so many poopstarters fail
07:52 PM sync_: so what are those few hundered $$ pumps CaptHindsight
07:57 PM chopper79: back to working on my ATC now. Here is what I have found so far. carousel.0.ready is outputting to my classicladder0.in-15 input. The signal is not getting through the |^| rising edge. I have tried the falling edge, NC, NO also and the only one that works is the NO input. Why would a rising edge input not allow the signal to pass?
07:59 PM jdh: what is on the other side of your rising edge contact?
08:02 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/discount-JULY-brand-high-quality-intensifier_60563467081.html
08:02 PM CaptHindsight: small pump ^^
08:03 PM jdh: tiny
08:05 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Cheapest-Wellna-Brand-New-coming-double_60471134129.html
08:05 PM chopper79: A NO bit
08:06 PM jdh: I have a haskel booster in the garage. cost a bit more than that
08:06 PM jdh: chopper79 as a coil, or a Set?
08:06 PM jdh: hook a counter up to it and see if it ever triggers with the ^ ?
08:09 PM chopper79: jdh: The output form carousel.0.ready is going to an open coil. This transfer to a rising edge input after the rising edge input it goes to a NO bit which is activated previously and passes to the coil (R) i am trying to reset. I took JT advise and stuck a timer on it and sure enough that signal is not passing through the rising edge input.
08:13 PM jdh: is there something else keeping it off?
08:13 PM jdh: if you add a |^| for your input and a (S) for %B123, does it set?
08:16 PM jdh: perhaps I should mention that I have never used CL, but I have done a lot of PLC programming
08:18 PM R2E4_bevins: how long does it stay on?
08:18 PM jdh: one scan for a rising edge
08:19 PM R2E4_bevins: I have leading edge working in my CL
08:20 PM R2E4_bevins: I dont mean in CL, if the carasel is passing by an prox sw for example, if it goes by too fast is there a point where CL wont see it?
08:20 PM jdh: sure
08:20 PM jdh: or rather, it could be possible depending on timing
08:21 PM R2E4_bevins: is it something that varies or meaning sometimes it sees it and sometimes it doesnt.
08:23 PM jdh: The speed of the thread that Classic Ladder is running in directly affects the responsiveness to inputs and outputs. If you can turn a switch on and off faster than Classic Ladder can notice it then you may need to speed up the thread.
08:23 PM R2E4_bevins: ok, I see.
08:23 PM chopper79: carousel.0.ready goes high when pocket is ready and then stays high until change is complete.
08:23 PM chopper79: then goes low
08:24 PM chopper79: I am ready from carousel.0.ready to signal my input that is on the rising edge
08:24 PM chopper79: *reading
08:24 PM chopper79: does not get throught he rising edge input
08:33 PM R2E4_bevins: Do you see it in Hal Configuration?
08:35 PM Tom_L: it's not negative logic is it?
08:35 PM Tom_L: i have to invert signals when i go straight from the cpld
08:39 PM chopper79: I got it to work and do a tool change.
08:39 PM zeeshan: chopper79: what kind of machine are you working on?
08:40 PM chopper79: Now this has triggered a new issue. I can do one tool change and then if I call another tool change the thing does nto work unless I restart LCNC and then I can do another tool change.
08:40 PM chopper79: matsuura
08:49 PM chopper79: well now that I have a better grasp on CL I am going to redo the tool change clip. This one was more for getting the feel for CL and how to do this ATC. Time to make the real one
09:00 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:27 PM MacGalempsy: sometimes one can find a tool changer on fleabay
10:50 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.ebay.com/itm/BAILEIGH-INDUSTRIAL-TN-250-Hole-Saw-Tube-Pipe-Notcher-1-to-2-1-2-In/331348117902 buy vs build
10:57 PM MacGalempsy: build!
10:58 PM MacGalempsy: how is the sand hunt coming along?
10:59 PM roycroft: build a grinder and use it to notch your tubing
11:00 PM MacGalempsy: CaptHindsight is precise.
11:00 PM MacGalempsy: roycroft are you scraping ways yet?
11:00 PM roycroft: and a good belt grinder will be much more precise than a hole saw notcher
11:00 PM roycroft: no, i'm not
11:01 PM MacGalempsy: how is the project progressing?
11:01 PM roycroft: i'm talking about a grinder such as knifemakers use
11:01 PM roycroft: i've been finishing my brew system
11:02 PM roycroft: and it's ready to go - i did a test run this weekend and will be brewing this coming weekend
11:02 PM MacGalempsy: brewing coffee?
11:02 PM roycroft: beer
11:02 PM the_wench: I am not your waitress!
11:02 PM MacGalempsy: where did that come from?
11:02 PM roycroft: i've realised that i need to move the milling machine when i do the cnc conversion
11:02 PM roycroft: so i've been figuring out how to rearrange the shop in anticipation of that
11:03 PM roycroft: i shall be moving the mill very soon, and then i'll start disassembling
11:03 PM MacGalempsy: cool. im planning on having a shop put in this summer
11:03 PM roycroft: in the meantime i've been getting more familiar with linuxcnc
11:03 PM roycroft: i have my touch screen working great now
11:03 PM MacGalempsy: running simulations?
11:03 PM roycroft: i've installed the mesa 5i25 and can talk to it
11:03 PM roycroft: yes
11:04 PM roycroft: i need to install the 7i76 and make sure i see that
11:04 PM roycroft: i've been getting samples of plastic laminate and working on a color scheme
11:04 PM MacGalempsy: its pretty straight forward
11:04 PM roycroft: i've been meeting with paint suppliers and have picked out a new paint system
11:04 PM MacGalempsy: for?
11:04 PM roycroft: the paint i've been using since the '80s is all but totally obsolete
11:05 PM roycroft: for machinery in general
11:05 PM roycroft: stuff i build
11:05 PM MacGalempsy: ok
11:05 PM roycroft: so there's been a lot of behind the scenes stuff going on
11:05 PM roycroft: once the weather is decent on a regular basis i'll be spending a lot of the time in the shop
11:05 PM roycroft: and that will be in about 2-3 weeks
11:06 PM MacGalempsy: there is a local guy who dismantles old chicken houses and the 30x50 shop materials is 4k
11:06 PM roycroft: i still need to order ball screws and nuts for the mill, but i'm holding off on taht until i disassemble, measure, and make drawings
11:06 PM MacGalempsy: cool
11:07 PM MacGalempsy: i want to put the pcar and fj40 in there, so it will need some sqft
11:07 PM roycroft: yes
11:08 PM roycroft: winter is research, design, and assemble materials time for me
11:09 PM roycroft: i've decided to go to the grizzly tent sale in the beginning of may
11:09 PM roycroft: i might find a lathe that i like for a really good price
11:10 PM MacGalempsy: it was beautiful here today. got 4 miles in
11:11 PM MacGalempsy: https://flic.kr/p/R5rtKg
11:12 PM MacGalempsy: they have been tripping in the hole, but are about 800ft off bottom. we might actually drill tonight
11:13 PM roycroft: looks pretty flat there
11:13 PM MacGalempsy: central ok is pretty flat
11:14 PM MacGalempsy: there is a hill across the street and 2 miles out there is a drainage
11:14 PM roycroft: it's like the texas panhandle
11:14 PM MacGalempsy: we are about 100 miles from the tx panhandle
11:15 PM roycroft: as jimmie dale gilmore says, "in lubbock if you stand on your tip-toes you can see the next town. if you stand on a tuna can you can see the next county."
11:15 PM MacGalempsy: we are in thomas ok
11:16 PM roycroft: i love where i live, but plains can be beautiful too
11:24 PM CaptHindsight: MacGalempsy: working with lasers at the moment
11:24 PM MacGalempsy: sls stuff?
11:24 PM CaptHindsight: yeah
11:25 PM MacGalempsy: do you run the wiper system with classic ladder and a custom mcode?
11:26 PM CaptHindsight: MacGalempsy: there are a few motors that aren't an axis
11:27 PM MacGalempsy: thats why i was wondering about the use of cl
11:27 PM CaptHindsight: XY is galvo/servo, Z is a servo, wiper and powder reservoir are not an axis
11:27 PM CaptHindsight: so yeah ladder and or custom codes
11:28 PM CaptHindsight: there are patents on the spreaders and compactors
11:28 PM MacGalempsy: sounds cool. still waiting on seeing a printed product :)
11:29 PM CaptHindsight: MacGalempsy: ends up I can get all the gravel and sand I need just down the road
11:29 PM MacGalempsy: perfect
11:29 PM CaptHindsight: they just don't advertise the materials that way
11:30 PM MacGalempsy: how long was the search before you figured that out?
11:30 PM CaptHindsight: more just sand, gravel and ready mix
11:30 PM CaptHindsight: it's more a matter of finding the right person
11:31 PM CaptHindsight: vs the people that answer the phone only know sand, gravel and ready mix :)
11:32 PM MacGalempsy: ahhh. what did a delivered ton end up being?
11:32 PM CaptHindsight: I knew it was there. How to order it is another story
11:32 PM CaptHindsight: a whole truckload is under $1k
11:33 PM CaptHindsight: it's like 10 cubic yards
11:34 PM CaptHindsight: so around 15 tons per truck
11:34 PM MacGalempsy: nice. iirc that is cheaper than what we talked about before
11:35 PM CaptHindsight: it comes down to the hauling costs
11:35 PM CaptHindsight: 1 mile is cheap
11:35 PM MacGalempsy: that helps a lot
11:35 PM CaptHindsight: 100 miles is another story
11:36 PM CaptHindsight: have to look for fly ash
11:38 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.cemexusa.com/ProductsServices/files/MRTFly-ash_MSDS.pdf
11:41 PM MacGalempsy: nearby tertiary wastewater plant?
11:42 PM MacGalempsy: we use to have more bags of ash than we could handle
11:42 PM CaptHindsight: looks like they have tons of it ~40 miles away
11:43 PM CaptHindsight: I wonder what is in the variety found in waste treatment plants
11:44 PM CaptHindsight: somebody asked about using it for exterior architectural siding
11:44 PM CaptHindsight: mixed with lime to make a cement
11:44 PM MacGalempsy: trace metals could be the main concern
11:44 PM CaptHindsight: IS
11:45 PM CaptHindsight: you have to keep them contained in the finished product
11:45 PM MacGalempsy: however, the chemists would know the exact proportions
11:45 PM CaptHindsight: leeching would be the issue
11:45 PM CaptHindsight: rain snow
11:46 PM MacGalempsy: ours went to the fields. due to the nitrates
11:46 PM MacGalempsy: i guess the metals would depend on local industry and effluent control enforcement
11:47 PM CaptHindsight: http://flyash.com/about-fly-ash/
11:47 PM CaptHindsight: so why not fly ash?
11:49 PM MacGalempsy: burning carbon vs burning poop, probably not much diff
11:50 PM roycroft: poop burning is sustainable
11:50 PM roycroft: random carbon burning not so much
11:50 PM MacGalempsy: are the sls spreader rollers made of teflon?
11:50 PM pfred1: roycroft Asian brown cloud says otherwise
11:50 PM MacGalempsy: its probably not so random
11:51 PM MacGalempsy: probably coal
11:53 PM CaptHindsight: MacGalempsy: https://www.google.com/patents/US8568124
11:53 PM CaptHindsight: we use micro bulldozers
11:56 PM CaptHindsight: that patent lists several others
11:57 PM MacGalempsy: thanks. got a lot of sketch time these days. id like to do a sls printer for personal use
11:58 PM pfred1: they're expensive
11:59 PM CaptHindsight: the patents are ridiculous
11:59 PM CaptHindsight: it's gotten to be where it is one war chest against another war chest