#linuxcnc Logs

Feb 17 2017

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:38 AM jesseg: Hey have you guys ever seen in your life an 1/8" #0 morse taper collet...?
12:41 AM jesseg: with drawbar threads :D
12:43 AM archivist: #0 is a bit rare
12:46 AM jesseg: yeah that's what I'm finding :P
12:46 AM MacGalempsy: evening folks
12:46 AM jesseg: Good Evening, MacGalempsy
12:47 AM MacGalempsy: makin chips?
12:47 AM jesseg: well, here's what I've got going on. I have an old CNC engraver, works great. But it uses strange and expensive 6" long bits that feed down through the top of the quill.
12:48 AM jesseg: And I want to convert it to use regular short 1/8" shanked engraver bits as well as PCB drill bits
12:48 AM jesseg: so I have in mind to bore in a MT0 hole into the bottom end of my quill shaft, then use a little drawbar so I can grab little bits :D
12:49 AM jesseg: unfortunately the quill shaft is slightly smaller than the fat end of a MT#1
12:49 AM MacGalempsy: pic of unit?
12:51 AM jesseg: MacGalempsy, here's a video of it, but if you want me to take head off, turn upside down, remove shroud, and take a closeup photo I can http://videoflier.com/movies/1476390184502171433281
12:52 AM MacGalempsy: how much are the correct bits?
12:52 AM archivist: jesseg, best would be make a new shaft, also look at watch lathe collets rather than morse
12:52 AM MacGalempsy: can u get carbide?
12:52 AM jesseg: MacGalempsy, engraver bits are like $35 -- but as far as I know, drill bits aren't available for it. And I want to drill.
12:54 AM jesseg: MacGalempsy, yeah you can get a solid fine grain 6" long carbide bit for like $35
12:54 AM jesseg: archivist, ahhh good idea, watch lathe collets....!
12:54 AM MacGalempsy: how close are dremel collets?
12:54 AM archivist: 1/8 is large but does exist
12:55 AM jesseg: Even if I could get a 0.025" diameter drill bits for this thing I wouldn't because PCB drill bits break ALL the time when you're me, and $35 a pop just won't cut it :P
12:55 AM archivist: dremel is not as good collet shape as watch lathe type
12:55 AM MacGalempsy: peck drill
12:56 AM jesseg: MacGalempsy, this has no collet at all. If you look at end of video, you can see that the bit comes up through the top, and a brass knob set-screws to the bit, and the brass knob screws into the spindle shaft
12:56 AM jesseg: I mean it's kind of nice -- they wanted you to be able to quickly change the bit without removing the head.. but the head also removes easily.
12:58 AM MacGalempsy: are u planning to do the mod machining yourself? what about a dedicated drilling maching?
12:58 AM jesseg: I plan to do the mod myself. This machine is in every other way absolutely perfect for drilling.
12:59 AM jesseg: but I guess I could have a little electric motor that holds a little bit that mounts out on the front of the Z axis
12:59 AM jesseg: then just put a bit in that and remove the engraver bit, and then drill away :P
12:59 AM jesseg: but seems hokey
01:00 AM archivist: my high speed drill has a nice jacobs chuck
01:01 AM archivist: http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/2012_07_09_Pollard_9FX_drill/IMG_1207.JPG
01:02 AM MacGalempsy: this looks fun https://tulsa.craigslist.org/tls/5997158853.html
01:03 AM MacGalempsy: reasonably inexpensive. runs on a parallel port
01:04 AM jesseg: archivist, is your high speed drill a CNC ring?
01:05 AM archivist: no manual
01:05 AM jesseg: ahh
01:05 AM archivist: feel the force, dont brak bits
01:05 AM jesseg: lol
01:06 AM archivist: sometimes manual is just right
01:06 AM jesseg: that's what I like about this engraver I want to convert - it uses air pressure to bring down the quill, and has an adjustment to control the drop rate, so by controlling air flow and pressure you can create a very gentle air spring loaded action
01:07 AM archivist: when drilling you can see a bit bend and wander sometimes, you can react to that with manual
01:08 AM jesseg: yeah
01:08 AM jesseg: I agree
01:08 AM jesseg: but... if you have 10 boards to drill, and each board has 150 holes...
01:08 AM jesseg: LOL
01:09 AM jesseg: I do intend to hit each drill location with the engraver bit as sort of a centering hole -- it should reduce wander significantly
01:09 AM MacGalempsy: shorty bits
01:09 AM archivist: I went to a PCB factory, the machine they had... 60k rpm spindles
01:09 AM jesseg: archivist, yup they keep'em moving don't they
01:10 AM archivist: it had a number of heads to speed the process up
01:10 AM archivist: I used to do a lot of PCB design :)
01:11 AM jesseg: Hmm, I could just get a little 60Krpm brushless model airplane motor and use it lol
01:13 AM jesseg: So tell me ~ if you might be so kind ~ more about these watch lathe collets..
01:13 AM jesseg: are they just like a little collet with a drawbar?
01:14 AM archivist: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10mm-PULTRA-WATCHMAKERS-LATHE-COLLETS-Large-Bores-1750-1770-1790-lorch-boley-/292016175423
01:14 AM archivist: draw "bar" is a tube often
01:15 AM archivist: internal thread
01:16 AM jesseg: very interesting.
01:16 AM jesseg: is it a dual taper?
01:17 AM jesseg: I guess it's just a single steep taper
01:18 AM jesseg: they say 10mm -- what dimension is that?
01:21 AM archivist: the parallel part
01:21 AM jesseg: ahh so that's way too big for my quill shaft
01:21 AM archivist: there are a number of "standard" collet sizes 6mm 8mm 10mm and various threads
01:23 AM jesseg: http://www.ebay.com/itm/332114676435
01:23 AM jesseg: that looks plausible
01:28 AM jesseg: So how would one go about making a tapered hole for a collet....?
01:28 AM jesseg: CNC on a lathe? a tapered half-round drill?
01:29 AM jesseg: or put the lathe cross slide at a goofy angle lol
01:29 AM archivist: at 1/2 angle
01:30 AM jesseg: oh are those tapers 45 degrees?
01:31 AM jesseg: They look more like 30 degrees just from the pictures
01:31 AM jesseg: maybe 35
01:31 AM jesseg: more like 20"{
01:31 AM jesseg: :P
01:32 AM archivist: the tapers vary, measure
01:33 AM jesseg: oohhhhh I see what you're saying about 1/2 angle. gotcha.
01:34 AM archivist: one person hwo came in here used a parallel shaft ER collet holder to make a spindle
01:34 AM jesseg: I thought you meant the angle was 45 but you're just reminding me to take half the angle because the other side will have the other half :P
01:34 AM jesseg: yeah
01:34 AM jesseg: I thought about converting to er11 or something but that doesn't use a drawbar and would mess up whole MO of sliding depth foot across surface of workpiece
01:35 AM archivist: here is another http://www.dieselrc.com/projects/cncspindle/
01:35 AM jesseg: hahah see what I'm saying about model airplane motors :P
01:36 AM archivist: http://www.raynerd.co.uk/brushless-dc-motor-cnc-high-speed-spindle/
01:37 AM jesseg: pretty neat alright
01:38 AM ds2: CNC is nice for making tapers
01:38 AM ds2: as long as your lathe is dialed in
01:38 AM jesseg: lol no kidding
01:39 AM jesseg: I guess I could just make my own collets and taper whatever size I jolly well wanted if I got my lathe dialed in well enough
01:39 AM ds2: made a bunch of ER40's on lathe I had access to as part of a night class
01:39 AM ds2: just need to finish the rear ends onto something
01:40 AM jesseg: How would I cut the 3 slots in the collet, though?
01:40 AM ds2: slitting saw?
01:41 AM ds2: and rotary table
01:41 AM jesseg: I guess so
01:41 AM jesseg: diameter of slitting saw must be just right so it doesn't cut too deep, and yet it cuts far enough back
01:42 AM ds2: couldn't you do 4 slots?
01:42 AM jesseg: yeah could, but I notice most of the commercially made ones have 3
01:42 AM jesseg: so I deduced that 3 was a more stable number
01:45 AM archivist: the thing about bought collets is ground internal and concentricity
01:56 AM jesseg: yeah
01:57 AM jesseg: I suppose I might be able to get away with just making a new spindle shaft and rilling/reaming a 1/8" hole in the end, and putting a setscrew..
01:58 AM archivist: when I make slitting saw arbours, I do the final turning on the mill
01:58 AM jesseg: I'd have to drill a hile all the way through the outer parts of the quill so I could slide an Allen wrench in to tighten it but it might be passable for my needs.
01:59 AM jesseg: The final turning on the mill? like a radial machining pass to stone the surface just right?
01:59 AM MacGalempsy_: archivist which site can u see uploaded pics?
01:59 AM archivist: imgur for plain pics
02:01 AM MacGalempsy_: my new drill http://imgur.com/MkQT1YU
02:02 AM MacGalempsy_: the chuck is 42000lbs
02:02 AM jesseg: that an oil drill?
02:02 AM jesseg: I guess if that's what it takes to keep such a large bit lubricated
02:03 AM MacGalempsy_: yeah. we are at 17000ft
02:03 AM jesseg: Help me understand the picture. Is that rig at sea?
02:03 AM jesseg: or is that just a mud puddle?
02:04 AM archivist: wet concrete
02:04 AM jesseg: oh OK
02:04 AM MacGalempsy_: close wet gravel
02:05 AM MacGalempsy_: muddy
02:05 AM jesseg: So you're drilling for oil at 17K feet elevation, or are you drilling 17k feet down?
02:05 AM MacGalempsy_: 17k measured depth. about 10k below surface
02:06 AM jesseg: oh, the bore aint straight?
02:06 AM jesseg: or diagonal drilling?
02:07 AM * jesseg trying to figure out how you out you put in 17k ft of drill rod and only go 10k feet deep :P
02:07 AM MacGalempsy_: straight to 9500 the turn horizontal
02:07 AM jesseg: oh gotcha
02:07 AM archivist: directional drilling has been around a while
02:07 AM jesseg: so in what sense of the word is the drill yours..? Own? Operate? Repair?
02:08 AM jesseg: yeah a lot of things have been around for a while, which is why I didn't know which was the case :D
02:08 AM jesseg: anyway super cool any which way
02:09 AM archivist: he is the channel pet geologist
02:09 AM MacGalempsy_: i steer the well :)
02:09 AM jesseg: so maybe all three :P
02:10 AM MacGalempsy_: actually i have chaufer engineers who drive
02:10 AM jesseg: LOL
02:10 AM MacGalempsy_: i just tell them where to go
02:10 AM minibnz: evening all.. i have a question.. it looks like my Y steps/mm (scale) is wrong i tell it to move 38mm and i get 37.5mm to me its 1.3% short.. now my question is do i increase the value of SCALE up by 1.3% or decrease it by 1.3%
02:10 AM archivist: maths
02:11 AM jesseg: MacGalempsy_, super cool man!
02:11 AM archivist: a calculator
02:11 AM jesseg: minibnz, I'd guess scale is a multiplicative element in the soup
02:11 AM archivist: minibnz, use longer distances to separate all the errors out
02:12 AM archivist: and if you know the screw lead and number of steps, direct calculation
02:12 AM minibnz: yes i will use the full length of my axis travel when i actually do this i was just tryng to work out in my head which way to i change scale to make it step farther.
02:13 AM archivist: you try any way soo chang, correct v worse and...
02:13 AM MacGalempsy_: hey minibnz. any tool platter yet?
02:14 AM minibnz: i know all the values used, the pulleys and the ballscrews and the motor steps per rev.. and the microstepping stettings but that only gets you close now i want to fine tune it, using a calculator will not get me to where i need to be..
02:15 AM jesseg: It should get your dead on.
02:15 AM minibnz: <MacGalempsy_>not yet the mech eng at work has given me contact details of another shop that i should get a quote from before i drop the cash.. so i a just need to remember to send those details to my personal email so i can send up the files..
02:16 AM minibnz: jesseg i wish i lived in this magical land where everything is as expected.. '
02:16 AM jesseg: I mean I doubt the lead screw is 1.3% off. but I guess it could be.
02:16 AM jesseg: minibnz, what feed screw do you have?
02:16 AM MacGalempsy_: jesseg thats what i was thinking too
02:16 AM minibnz: 16mm diameter 5mm pitch
02:17 AM minibnz: its probably in my pulleys and belt
02:17 AM jesseg: are they notched pulleys/belts?
02:17 AM minibnz: T5's 16mm wide
02:17 AM jesseg: minibnz, I'd suggest recounting the teeth on your notched timing pulleys
02:18 AM minibnz: what instead of using the number that is stamped into them? :)
02:18 AM jesseg: yes
02:18 AM jesseg: :P
02:18 AM MacGalempsy_: heh. yeah. chinese cant count in english
02:18 AM jesseg: I mean I guess it's possible that a Chinese made lead screw is grossly out of dimension...
02:19 AM jesseg: minibnz, well something else you can do is put a mark on side of lead screw and count turns.
02:19 AM jesseg: Also, check to see if the error is a scale or offset error.
02:20 AM jesseg: for example, if it's 0.5mm short at 10 inches, try it at 5 inches or 20 inches, and see if it's still half a mm short, or if the error scales
02:20 AM jesseg: could be lash ( I don't know if you have lashless ball screws or not.)
02:20 AM MacGalempsy_: i forget, minibnz are you using feedback?
02:20 AM minibnz: in fact the Y axis at the moment has a pulley that I MADE on my mill with my A axis so there is a definite chance that the pulley is not correct.. i am pretty sure you cannot have a T5 with 10teeth that meets the exact specs.
02:21 AM archivist: timing pulleys are exact ratios unless skipping
02:21 AM minibnz: no i have not got any scales or encoders so i could be missing steps but i am going so slow it would have to be due to electrical noise rather than a mechanical cause.
02:21 AM jesseg: Anyway, one trick is to attach a tiny mirror at right angles on the lead screw -- then set up a laser pointer to hit the mirror and shine across the room. Then tell it to step one turns worth, and see if the laser pointer spot ends up in same place.
02:22 AM jesseg: minibnz, basically the best approach is to determine if the error is in the lead screw, or elsewheres.
02:22 AM jesseg: If it's elsewheres, it's a math/logic problem, not a scaling problem. If it's in the leadscrew then it's a scaling problem :D
02:22 AM jesseg: Night folks :D
02:22 AM archivist: are you sure the lead screw is 5mm and not .2"
02:22 AM MacGalempsy_: dial indicator and start slow
02:23 AM MacGalempsy_: laters jesseg
02:23 AM minibnz: i purchased the Y leadscrew at the same time as the X axis and the X axis is spot on.. it does not have any pulleys or gears and is a direct drive on the end of the screw.. it gives me 37,97mm holes when i asl for 38mm which is all i am after from the Y axis..
02:24 AM minibnz: purchased from an australiann supplier they only do metric..
02:24 AM archivist: minibnz, you realise the percentage of 25.4 v 25mm is 1.6%
02:25 AM minibnz: i have an offcut of the Y axis screw in my hand and it is 5mm pitch..
02:26 AM minibnz: 5 complete turns every 25mm
02:26 AM archivist: then adjust scale by percentage
02:27 AM minibnz: yes which way? do i increase the scale value by the measured percentage or decrease it?
02:27 AM archivist: how are you measuring, wooden ruler does not count
02:27 AM minibnz: verniers
02:27 AM archivist: either, see which is correct
02:28 AM archivist: you have a 50% chance of being right first time
02:29 AM minibnz: and a 100% chance of screwing up the center on the hole i have already cut that i want t make circular before i move the axis.. you all i was trying to do was avoid loosing my home point..
02:29 AM minibnz: i know i could take a shot but i thought i would just ask the simple question does anyone know which way i go..
02:30 AM archivist: you are going to have to re setup after the change either way
02:31 AM minibnz: why? i am at 0,0,0 at the moment and if someone knew the answer i could simply adjust my scale value and hit play on the same code and see how close i got..
02:31 AM archivist: your 0,0,0 will move
02:32 AM minibnz: how?
02:32 AM minibnz: i am cutting a circle?
02:32 AM archivist: by the change in scale!
02:32 AM archivist: you have to reload linuxcnc for the ini to be read
02:33 AM minibnz: i disagree.. if i am at 0,0,0 and i am gong from -10 to +10 the distance traveled from the origin will be the same in both directions for each axis
02:35 AM minibnz: i know i have to reload it but thats fine. i dont see how thats any different to enabling and disabling the machine mid job like i do all the time.. i understand this could move the axis a little if i happened to have stopped on a non full step when the motor powers up next it might move.. meh i can live with that.
02:37 AM minibnz: my steppers make far too much noise for me to leave them enabled when i am not cutting..
02:38 AM minibnz: but anyway no one seems to know the answer to my question so i will take a gamble and see how it goes..
02:38 AM minibnz: bbl
03:42 AM gonzo_: noise? That can't be right
03:43 AM gonzo_: I know mine get hot, so I really should org a drive enable only when running
03:44 AM gonzo_: but the microstel question is interesting
03:44 AM gonzo_: microstep
03:44 AM MacGalempsy_: as microstep goes up torque goes down?
03:47 AM Deejay: moin
03:49 AM MacGalempsy_: hi
03:49 AM MacGalempsy_: Deejay how are things going?
03:50 AM * Deejay is ill :/
03:52 AM MacGalempsy_: that is no good. the flu?
03:53 AM Deejay: yep
03:53 AM * Deejay coughes in MacGalempsy's direction
03:54 AM * MacGalempsy_ dodges!
03:55 AM MacGalempsy_: had it a few weeks ago
03:55 AM MacGalempsy_: took about 5 days to get over
03:56 AM minibnz: i have adjusted the steps per mm in the ini file by increasing it 1.28% and have re-centered my job and am re cutting the hole. also changed the gcode to a sprial 30 turns over 65mm depth.. it looks good it appears to only be taking metal off the Y axis and very little off the X axis like i would expect.. i think the adjustment was in the right direction, weather it was the right size or not thats still to be seen
03:57 AM MacGalempsy_: no dial indicator w mag base?
03:57 AM minibnz: gonzo_ all my stepper motors sing when they are just holding.. the new Z axis motor doesnt seem so bad so when i change the X&Y motors i might be able to leave them enabled without me going bonker.
03:58 AM minibnz: bonkers..
03:58 AM MacGalempsy_: do the drives have pots?
03:58 AM minibnz: i do have one but its all the way on top of the mill in its case under a box of collet tool holders..
03:58 AM gonzo_: wonder if it's the PWM freq of the drivers is too low for the inductance of the motors?
03:59 AM minibnz: my driver board only has dip switches.. 6 very poorly documented dip switches..i know sorta what they do and i go with trial and error.. 1,2 current 3,4 decay 56 microsteps
04:00 AM minibnz: its a TB6560 5 axis board..
04:00 AM minibnz: so there is every chance i have the wrong combo of motors and driver but it was sold to me as a kit and the original motors also sung like mad..
04:01 AM MacGalempsy_: i was under the impression that torque drops when microsteps go up, thus heating up and missed steps
04:03 AM minibnz: yeah torque does drop with microstepping
04:04 AM minibnz: i run minimal microstepping to give me 0.005mm steps
04:04 AM minibnz: the X axis might have a bit higher microstepping cuz its direct on the ballscrew.
04:05 AM minibnz: i have to drill out my coupler to the take the new motor shatft..
04:05 AM minibnz: oh thats a pita to take off..
04:06 AM minibnz: getting to the grub screws means getting coated in swarfe upto my elbows..
04:07 AM Deejay: MacGalempsy_, its already the fifth day for me. and not getting better til now :/
04:35 AM MacGalempsy_: Deejay: glad i make you feel better :P
04:45 AM Deejay: ;)
04:47 AM malcom2073: Torque between microsteps is lower, but torque between full steps is the same. So, no missed steps any more than if you were full stepping
04:49 AM MacGalempsy_: well rise and shine malcom2073. your lights came out nice. what did you use to round the edges?
04:49 AM malcom2073: A rounding endmill, or whatever such a profile endmill is called
04:49 AM malcom2073: single-pass, so nice as quick
04:50 AM malcom2073: Yeah they came out looking really pretty
05:03 AM MacGalempsy_: you should make a few more and put them on fleabay for $$$
05:04 AM malcom2073: I don't know if there is an actual market for them, but they're cheap enough to make I'll probably run a small batch and give it a shot
05:05 AM malcom2073: We spent a lot of time streamlining the process for machining them, but it's still over an hour of labor for each
05:05 AM jthornton: morning
05:05 AM XXCoder: heys
05:06 AM MacGalempsy_: add 100 to the material price and see what happens
05:06 AM jthornton: going to be a nice day here
05:06 AM jthornton: what are you making?
05:07 AM MacGalempsy_: wasnt too cold here over night.
05:08 AM jthornton: 40f here atm
05:08 AM malcom2073: jthornton: https://scontent.fphl2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16602716_1546788938668815_3071890235094752748_n.jpg?oh=9604367f382ae4741d2e346a6cfce2a5&oe=5901AC21 https://scontent.fphl2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16640754_1546788922002150_8119505127280552072_n.jpg?oh=1caf7db865eca974ae50c30dcb59271a&oe=5934C9F7
05:08 AM malcom2073: Water cooled LED light bars
05:08 AM XXCoder: dang
05:08 AM XXCoder: how bright is it
05:08 AM malcom2073: The two on there are 100w each, but you can get 200w modules
05:09 AM malcom2073: They're greenhouse grow lights
05:09 AM MacGalempsy_: got any power on pics?
05:09 AM malcom2073: They don't exactly photograph well :-P
05:09 AM XXCoder: is it special pink ones or just light
05:09 AM jthornton: super bright leds?
05:09 AM malcom2073: XXCoder: Special pink, it's an odd frequency that plants like
05:10 AM malcom2073: jthornton: Yeah
05:10 AM minibnz: malcom2073 are they for sale? i wants one or two.. for the front of my 4wd
05:10 AM MacGalempsy_: 200w led is 600w equiv halogen
05:10 AM malcom2073: minibnz: They're *way* more expensive than a standard light bar, and not as bright :-P
05:10 AM minibnz: :(
05:10 AM malcom2073: You can get a big light ar for like $30
05:10 AM malcom2073: bar*
05:10 AM jthornton: so if you had a hydroponic garden you have water handy to pump through them
05:10 AM XXCoder: mal its because of odd side effect of evolution. all green we see is from former under-bushes and trees. main trees was all dark puple, opposite of sunlight color. but most of those died
05:10 AM MacGalempsy_: you just need to make a proper reflector
05:11 AM XXCoder: and green ones surivied and well
05:11 AM malcom2073: jthornton: Yep, the guy I made them for uses the water to help keep his soil warm in the winter
05:11 AM minibnz: we just purchased 6 light bars for work. 54000 ebay lumens $80au each in white to try and replicate daylight..
05:11 AM minibnz: we have them on a frame we call the star gate.. if you look at it from the wrong side you see stars
05:11 AM malcom2073: Haha I'll bet
05:12 AM minibnz: this rig is about 1.5m off the wall and they are focused onto about 1m sq
05:12 AM minibnz: 24v 20amps to run them all..
05:12 AM XXCoder: lol
05:12 AM minibnz: i have one on the front of my 4wd and its damn good..
05:12 AM malcom2073: This was the first design: https://scontent.fphl2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/13029589_1261348340546211_5821059635642762367_o.jpg?oh=187c9c790b3d4143c820ca62d1a680c4&oe=59346872
05:13 AM minibnz: but six would kill it.. these are 23inches wide..
05:13 AM minibnz: what do you have them for malcom2073?
05:14 AM malcom2073: minibnz: I'm designing/building them for a friend for his greenhouse
05:14 AM minibnz: ahhh nice so you are doing a full spectrum of color?
05:14 AM minibnz: ie just what plants need?
05:14 AM malcom2073: Nope, just a couple specific colors that they need
05:15 AM malcom2073: And actually he's gonna do two different frequencies on the dual bars, and we're working on a module that sticks on the back and connects over wifi, so you can individually control them via an app :)
05:15 AM minibnz: you had me until you said...
05:15 AM minibnz: APP...
05:15 AM minibnz: no no no its an application..
05:16 AM minibnz: or program..
05:16 AM malcom2073: No, it's literally an "app", for the android play store (colloquially an "app" store)
05:16 AM minibnz: eeeewwwwww apppss everywhere why?
05:16 AM malcom2073: Because technology is cool
05:16 AM malcom2073: And fun
05:17 AM malcom2073: It'll also have a server backend for saving data and monitoring anywhere in the world
05:17 AM minibnz: sorry the problem is not apps persey.. its that they all need to phone home to use the its BS..
05:17 AM MacGalempsy_: powerPAR prices are insane!
05:17 AM minibnz: nope im out..
05:17 AM malcom2073: It's not intended for you :-P
05:18 AM minibnz: i would love this stuff but not if the internet is required..
05:18 AM MacGalempsy_: there is on with a bunch of those 200w models for 2k
05:18 AM minibnz: no internet and we are sweet..
05:19 AM malcom2073: Well you don't *HAVE* to use the server capability if you don't wanna run your own server
05:20 AM minibnz: you say this until your marketing dept gets a hold of it and mangles your idea into a datamining oppotunity..
05:20 AM malcom2073: Ohhh good idea
05:20 AM malcom2073: ;)
05:20 AM malcom2073: Seriously though, there's no money in catering to people who are (however justifiably) paranoid
05:20 AM jthornton: where does he get the led?
05:20 AM malcom2073: jthornton: Ebay!
05:21 AM minibnz: i have seen it at my work... no we wont collect data and sell it.. then bang they realise people are handing over names address email and phone without even noticing and then before i knew i was one the darkside.. :(((
05:21 AM malcom2073: China sells the crap out of these leds
05:21 AM malcom2073: All that being said, these aren't a "product"
05:21 AM malcom2073: they're not being sold
05:21 AM malcom2073: This is all internal use stuff
05:21 AM jthornton: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Plant-Grow-light-LED-chip-Full-spectrum-7-Wavelength-1-Blue-440Nm-4-Red-660Nm-3W/32748984587.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_1_10065_10000073_10068_10000077_10000074_10000032_119_10000030_10000026_10000023_431_10000069_10000068_10060_10062_10056_10055_10000062_10054_10000063_10059_10099_10000020_10000013_10103_10102_10000016_10096_10000056_10000059_10052_10053_10107_10050_10106_10051_10000097_10000094_100000
05:21 AM jthornton: 91_10000007_10000050_10084_10000101_10083_10000100_10080_10000047_10000104_10082_10081_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_10000089_10000086_10037_10000083_10000041_10000044_10000080_10078_10079_10077_10000038_10073_10000035_10070_10122_10123_10121_10126_10124,searchweb201603_2,afswitch_2,ppcSwitch_5,single_sort_3_default&btsid=db4b0300-a59f-4733-b8be-a82841c3e9d7&algo_expid=401fe8f0-aa16-4661-9197-fc492efe2769-5&algo_pvid=401fe8f0-aa16-4661-9197-fc492efe2769
05:22 AM jthornton: sorry
05:22 AM malcom2073: jthornton: yeah that form factor, ebay has them for $20-$30 each
05:22 AM jthornton: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Plant-Grow-light-LED-chip-Full-spectrum-7-Wavelength-1-Blue-440Nm-4-Red-660Nm-3W/32748984587.html
05:23 AM XXCoder: yayyy long url heh
05:23 AM jthornton: stupid aliexpress
05:23 AM minibnz: its not just the surveillance side of things.. its the longevity and the lack of support.. you go broke your server is dead i a stuck with a paper weight... if i hack it you come back from the corp wastelands and hit me with a dcma.. then there is the updates for security.. if it has to talk to the outside world to function its a hole
05:23 AM malcom2073: minibnz: That's why the server software is open source, anyone can run their own
05:23 AM minibnz: thats ok then :)
05:24 AM malcom2073: :-P
05:24 AM minibnz: you didn't mention that..
05:24 AM malcom2073: Like I said, it's an internal project. I don't have any intention of making a ton of these, I don't think there is a market for them at the price I'd have to charge to make them worth it
05:24 AM * minibnz thinks of the calm blue ocean in a vein attempt to lower the blood pressure :)
05:25 AM minibnz: are you making all custom parts?/
05:25 AM malcom2073: Yeah I make the whole block
05:25 AM XXCoder: any of you heard of rotatary glow thingy?
05:25 AM minibnz: see if you can just modify off the shelf extrusions to do the job?
05:25 AM XXCoder: it uses those pink lights
05:26 AM minibnz: XXCoder they call them the UFO to grow weed..
05:26 AM malcom2073: minibnz: All the work is in the finishing, the actual machining is minimal time
05:26 AM XXCoder: lol weed ufo
05:26 AM XXCoder: hope they dont crash :P but that might have happened at roswell ;) JK
05:26 AM minibnz: malcom2073 its 2017 build a robot to build them :)
05:26 AM malcom2073: Haha yeah
05:26 AM malcom2073: If I had the money to buy the right machines, I could cut the time in half :-P
05:27 AM jthornton: http://www.ebay.com/itm/30W-50W-100W-Led-Grow-Chip-Multi-Color-Full-Spectrum-LED-Plant-Diode-with-3500K/301594582233?_trksid=p2045573.c100508.m3226&_trkparms=aid%3D555017%26algo%3DPL.CASSINI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D41376%26meid%3Dccb896f0414641298fc8dca1d85cd712%26pid%3D100508%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26
05:27 AM jthornton: prob didn't need anything after the ?
05:27 AM malcom2073: jthornton: Yeah, I can find the exact frequency he's using if you're interested, but that's the type
05:27 AM XXCoder: jthornton: never.
05:27 AM jthornton: yes, I have a small herb garden in the basement bathroom
05:27 AM minibnz: the freq is important to the plants..
05:28 AM XXCoder: pictures sometimes they use parameters after ? to "authorize" picture loading, but aliexpress item entru urls dont need anything past ?
05:28 AM malcom2073: minibnz: Apparently there is a whole science, to which frequency to give the plant during which part of the lifecycle and which part of the day
05:29 AM jthornton: I did figure out that when the plants first put out the embryo leaves if they are within an inch or two of the grow bulb they stop growing up and make lots of roots
05:31 AM minibnz: malcom2073 my mate has been looking into that for a while... i told him get me the numbers and would make him some panels.. but he is a smoker so i still havent got them from him so i dont gotta do squat yet..
05:31 AM malcom2073: Heh, my buddy thinks there is a market for pot growers for this sort of stuff too
05:33 AM XXCoder: jthornton: good for pototoes I guess? ;)
05:33 AM minibnz: yup i used to work at a place that built things for a hydro shop.. they would pay for "salt testa's" and "Ph testa's" $75 from us and it would cost us $14 in electronics and about $9 in case and packaging.. was going great until they got busted growing weed.
05:33 AM jthornton: prob good to start tomato seeds early
05:33 AM minibnz: potheads will pay crazy for this sorta stuff..
05:33 AM jym: Algee growing in the toilet bowl does not count as a herb garden, mkay ;)
05:34 AM minibnz: just make the interface easy to use.. and setup..
05:34 AM jthornton: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2014-Newest-Free-shipping-10pcs-50W-white-color-LED-chip-with-red-phospher-380nm-840nm-full/1813996981.html
05:34 AM jthornton: $7
05:34 AM malcom2073: Yeah, easy to use makes the difference
05:34 AM XXCoder: jym: lick it
05:34 AM XXCoder: just do it, like Nike says
05:34 AM malcom2073: Nice and cheap
05:35 AM jthornton: yours have the 34mm square bolt pattern?
05:35 AM jym: XXCoder++
05:35 AM malcom2073: jthornton: yep
05:35 AM minibnz: hmm something seems wrong in your business plan.. you poo poo'd me as a paranoid unit yet you want to sell to potheads?
05:36 AM XXCoder: paraoid unit heh
05:36 AM malcom2073: minibnz: I don't wanna sell to anyone haha,I just said my buddy thinks there is a market
05:36 AM minibnz: no et phone home ....
05:42 AM MacGalempsy_: did you see the large light units that are 2k? seems like those would be the ticket
05:42 AM malcom2073: ?
05:43 AM MacGalempsy_: fleabay search powerPAR
05:44 AM MacGalempsy_: they have one with 4 rows of modules for $2088. just air cooled tho
05:45 AM malcom2073: Heh
05:45 AM jthornton: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/150W-Real-full-spectrum-led-grow-light-chip-50pcs-x-3W-Bridgelux-chip-range-380-730nm/32668408250.html
05:46 AM minibnz: i would do some testing and see if the light level is actually increasing as you increase your current, you might find that there is a sweet point where they dont put out too much heat and you dont loose too much light..
05:46 AM archivist: out doors/greenhouse is cheaper
05:46 AM MacGalempsy_: 36 led modules. 240v. you could do a radiator with the fans
05:46 AM malcom2073: archivist: These are going in an outdoor greenhouse
05:46 AM malcom2073: They are to extend the growing season by a couple months
05:47 AM minibnz: even these leds wont like the reverse voltage so you would have to at least half wave rectify it which would also help with heat as its not really DC
05:56 AM minibnz: i made a spot light out of a 10 ebay watt white LED.. chopped up and spun a bit of acrylic on the lathe to make a lens it works pretty good out to about 50-60m.. i am running it from the ciggy socket with a few big resistors so 1 amp runs up it.. the led is screwed to a 10mm thick lump of aluminium that makes a handle.. i have had it running for an hour solid and the block doesnt get that hot.. and it seems happy to continue.. its good f
05:56 AM minibnz: or the nephew cuz if its dropped it cant break or blow a bulb
05:56 AM malcom2073: Haha nice
05:57 AM minibnz: wanted to see if it was worth trying something similar to what you are doing but in RED for the from of my 4wd so it dont spook the animals.. rather unsporting but pest control is not a sport..
05:58 AM malcom2073: Why water cool them though? In a vehicle you have plenty of airflow
05:59 AM minibnz: its illegal to shoot a deer recreational or commercially in the wild under a red spot light.. commercial i am allowed to use white light and night vision and moderators..
05:59 AM minibnz: i hadnt decided on how to cool them and when you are parked the air flow is reduced a fair amount.
06:00 AM malcom2073: True, but a fan is cheap, and water cooling on a vehicle has all sorts of other interesting engineering challenges, unless you want a challenge :-P
06:00 AM minibnz: oh no fans get clogged with mud :P
06:00 AM malcom2073: True heh
06:01 AM malcom2073: Off to work for me now though, bbl
06:01 AM minibnz: no problems.
06:06 AM jthornton: man these smart serial cards are cool
06:07 AM jthornton: just plug it in and bam you have 48 more inputs
06:07 AM XXCoder: thats what she said
06:08 AM jthornton: my basil plants are really growing big
06:09 AM XXCoder: jt since you have cnc machine and 3d printer you can basically build cnc farm
06:09 AM XXCoder: just need extrusions and some hardware, and some stuff to be printed
06:09 AM XXCoder: and some to be milled
06:09 AM jthornton: need to get the printer back up and going
06:10 AM XXCoder: I really want to try cnc farm :D
06:11 AM XXCoder: if I build delta I would use smoothware and that leaves ramps free for farm
06:11 AM minibnz: oh so close to completing a big hole in one opperation :( my cutter fell out of the collet. guess it needed more grip. it did a lot of work it was half way thru the last pass..
06:11 AM minibnz: glad i didnt mill up my bed.
06:11 AM minibnz: or chip a toth
06:11 AM minibnz: tooth
06:12 AM jthornton: what are you making?
06:13 AM minibnz: i drill jig for a mate that makes engine manifolds, this will let him slid in a U pipe and drill pilot holes on angles and at the right length so they all end up the same, its harder to do this sort of cutting but it makes the welding much easier and quicker and neater.
06:14 AM jthornton: cool
06:14 AM minibnz: its a big arse block of aluminium with two 38mm holes 65mm thru
06:15 AM minibnz: i am getting more confidence that if i get a tool changer made up it will actually be worth it..
06:16 AM minibnz: looks like it will end up being 850 900au once all done.. thats $50 a pocket..
06:25 AM minibnz: and its back to where the cuter fell out last time.. wont be long and i get to take the lump off the mill and look at my handy work..
06:25 AM jthornton: that's a pretty big hole and very deep
06:25 AM minibnz: i have two and they are looking very round..
06:26 AM jthornton: what kind of cutter are you using?
06:26 AM minibnz: 37.97 on X and 37.95 on Y axis.. might need to tweek my setting just a little bit..
06:26 AM minibnz: 12mm 4 flute hss with coolant..
06:26 AM gonzo_: measured bore?
06:27 AM minibnz: i think the coolant stopped hitting the cutter as it progressed and caused the shank of the cutter to rub on the hole and work its way out of the collet..
06:28 AM minibnz: not yet.. hmmm actually i dont have any inside calipers.. (is they jenny calipers) or micrometers.. probably should be the next thing i buy and fail to use correctly..
06:28 AM gonzo_: a vernier job?
06:29 AM minibnz: for now.. will measure both sides against the edges and any reference point i can and see how bad i did.. its very pretty inside...
06:30 AM minibnz: soon i might be able to claim (rightly) that i have a CNC mill and can sorta use it.. :)
06:34 AM gonzo_: anyone know (or admit to knowing) if anywhere sells replacement lead screw/nut sets for the Clarke hobby mill/drills?
06:34 AM gonzo_: Like the one here http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/engineering-tools/2011/milling-machines/
06:34 AM archivist: how about asking chronos :)
06:35 AM gonzo_: one of the screws on mine is nadgered and if I'm replacing it, I may as well get summut decent
06:35 AM archivist: get a ballscrew
06:35 AM XXCoder: archivist: the being of time? :P
06:36 AM archivist: chronos is a supplier here
06:36 AM gonzo_: I can get replacemkent bits ok, but was hoping that someone made a pre machined ballnut assy that would drop in
06:36 AM archivist: I use their cheap morse collets
06:37 AM archivist: may have to modify
06:37 AM gonzo_: I've seen these machines badged up under a few names
06:38 AM gonzo_: was hoping to be able to find a retrofit kit, rather than having to cut my own
06:38 AM archivist: oh that is the round column thing.... sell it
06:38 AM gonzo_: it's only used tyo make the bits for my BP. Then I'll have a proper (well in my opinion) mill
06:39 AM gonzo_: that hobby thing will just be for slamm stuff and drimlling
06:39 AM archivist: hardly worth upgrading
06:39 AM gonzo_: small
06:39 AM archivist: as a drill they are ok
06:39 AM archivist: I had the Graham Engineering Alpine major
06:39 AM gonzo_: certainly better than the floor standing thing I had before. Far more rigid
06:40 AM archivist: re setting the height and clamping was effin.....
06:43 AM gonzo_: yep, have done lots of that recently
06:44 AM archivist: I got rid of mine20 years ago :)
06:45 AM gonzo_: the tension of the screw nuts is nasty. a bronze casting with the thread form cut all the way through. Then a saw cut, part of the way through, and a flange to tension the halves together
06:45 AM gonzo_: it's just twisting the nuts ,so the actual bearing surfaces are minimal
06:46 AM archivist: whole thing is nasty, my column was not square to XY either
06:46 AM gonzo_: just over a mm of play on mine, adjusted to the max
06:46 AM gonzo_: I shimmed my column
06:47 AM archivist: I found a mug to give me £300
06:47 AM gonzo_: 20yrs ago?
06:47 AM gonzo_: they are 600-700 now on ebay, used !
06:47 AM archivist: yes was about 6-800 new
06:48 AM archivist: there are better turds to buy than round column mill drills
06:48 AM gonzo_: sounds about the same, with inflation
06:55 AM minibnz: ahhh im thru the block two holes that are the same size and are in the right place it looks alot like the drawing except for a few extra features. where i peck drilled the center of the 38mm holes out the drill wandered and i can see a few marks in the sidewall where i have not taken enough metal out to hide them.. ignoring that its pretty good, and i wont be peck drilling anythign like tht again.
06:58 AM gonzo_: I was having to bore out some bearing pockets, manually and without a boring tool
06:59 AM gonzo_: that was fun. Ended up usinh a fly cutter to face down the bore of a roughly milled pocket
06:59 AM archivist: I remember the chatter and noise on my old beast
06:59 AM gonzo_: bodgery, but just about worked
07:01 AM gonzo_: I was milling quite a big lump (big, for the machine) on mine. That certainly showed up the worn leadscrew. Actually it shook the nut loose. That was not good.
07:01 AM gonzo_: 5mm play on X chattered quite a lot!
07:01 AM Spida: ouch
07:02 AM archivist: we took .2 inches off a Lister D cylinder head to "tune" it up a bit
07:02 AM archivist: still 1.5 hp...
07:03 AM archivist: that is where I noticed the tramming error
07:03 AM minibnz: hmmm its not rocket ship worthy but it will still work...
07:04 AM minibnz: it sort a looks like i might have some backlash in one of the axis i would say thats theY axis and its cuz of my crappy DIY pulley i have a new one factory fresh hardly tampered with, i drilled it to 8mm from 6 and added a pair of grubsrcews
07:06 AM jthornton: we used to have lister portable pumps on the rigs
07:07 AM minibnz: i wonder if mcjing's tools shop will have a pair of drill guides.. that place is great there is only one problem, there is a bit of a language barrier... so they might have it and not know it by the same name.. anyone else know them by a different name.. a hardened insert that a drill can run on and only suffer minimal wear.. can have a flange but not a must
07:12 AM minibnz: i guess something like this but for metal and i only need two
07:12 AM minibnz: https://www.amazon.com/Dowelmax-Drill-Guides-1-4/dp/B00021XQDU
07:15 AM minibnz: a bit of carbide steel with a 1/4in hole and 3/4 long would be perfect..
07:17 AM gonzo_: rob a bit from your 25acp reloading dies
07:19 AM minibnz: hehehhe if only i had a 45acp.. they are on the restricted list of handguns.. you gota do extra paper work cuz of its power and have to compete in a special class at special events
07:19 AM XXCoder: so far, arrow and bow isn't even considered weapons in most modern goverments
07:19 AM minibnz: but my mate does have a huge box of old ass reloading stuff that was throw his way.. doesnt know what to do with half of it.
07:20 AM minibnz: our nanny/govt dont like the cross bow but compound bow is ok
07:21 AM minibnz: oh and they wont let me hunt with an airbow.
07:21 AM gonzo_: (25acp would probably be too big, as the carbide would be brass diam, not bullet diam, but I was only joking )
07:21 AM minibnz: even with a firearms and hunting licenses
07:21 AM gonzo_: bow hunting is not legal here at all
07:22 AM gonzo_: catapult is ok, but you hav eto be careful on ammo. As using somethinmg ceramic (like a stone) is calssed as stoning, not shooting
07:23 AM gonzo_: people use lead shot to keep it simple
07:23 AM minibnz: some state forrests are bow hunting only.. our most notorious state forrest belangelo SF where the back packer stashed his victims is bows only on weekends.. wanted to go shooting there cuz no one would want to go there with their kids and ride bikes and camp
07:24 AM minibnz: i like most of our rules and can live with the ones that i dont..
07:36 AM nallar is now known as Ross
08:32 AM gregcnc: scrap iron? what the heck is the cinci, a grinder? https://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/hvo/6006627551.html
08:33 AM miss0r: It doesn't look too bad
08:35 AM miss0r: Yeah.. what IS that thing. Some of it looks like a horisontal mill. while other parts looks like some sort of grinder
08:36 AM miss0r: actualy looks a little like a centerless grinder
08:36 AM gregcnc: that what i was thinking
08:36 AM gregcnc: ah yes it is
08:36 AM miss0r: you found some other information on it?
08:38 AM gregcnc: www.ebay.com/itm/Cincinnati-No-2-Centerless-Grinder-/201818280158
08:39 AM miss0r: i'm not so sure I like centerless grinders. I only understand just enough about them, to have decided I do not like them :)
08:41 AM miss0r: damn it! this keyboard "click-sound"-fetish has made it impossible to find a working IBM ps/2 unit. most of the search results are for the damn keyboards, with their clickity sounds'n stuff...
08:42 AM miss0r: I have a few of thoes, I should sell them, at the prices people are asking - i'd be a rich man
08:43 AM archivist: gregcnc, but wtf is and other lathe?
08:45 AM archivist: lazy sellers not describing stuff properly
08:46 AM miss0r: archivist: You probaly know a thing or two about centerless grinders, right?
08:47 AM archivist: I have never played with one
08:47 AM archivist: I collect info though :)
08:48 AM archivist: I have some good pictures of a crank grinder after a wheel exploded
08:49 AM gregcnc: some kind of screw machine automatic lathe
08:49 AM archivist: no sign of bar feed
08:49 AM miss0r: Something about it I can't wrap my head around: This is a thought up example: Lets say I have a peice of round stock, with a centermark in each end; and I decide to take off a given amount of stock on the OD in a centerless grinder:
08:49 AM miss0r: That centermark would not represent center anymore, is this not correct?
08:50 AM miss0r: The round stock, would be perfectly round, but the center would have moved?
08:50 AM archivist: not always perfectly round either
08:50 AM miss0r: "what is perfect"....
08:50 AM miss0r: but atleast the center would move, right?
08:50 AM gregcnc: we all get the tolerance thing here, i think
08:51 AM archivist: UK 50 pence piece is an example of something that can be produced on a centreless grinder
08:52 AM gregcnc: I don't think that if you expect centers to be concentric with OD, this is don't a centerless machine
08:52 AM gregcnc: don't -> done
08:52 AM archivist: I remember reading about resonance and errors of round
08:53 AM archivist: measures right on a micrometer but 5 sided
08:53 AM gregcnc: yes everything has errors, its the degree that's important, if centerless grinders were terrible they probably wouldn't exist
08:53 AM miss0r: I just saw this video of a guy building small threaded pins with a ground od in one end and a center hole in the other. To take it to final dimentions it was ground in a centerless grinder after machining. That would move the thread and the locating hole off center I think.
08:54 AM miss0r: It was a production video of a pro doing it.. Just got me thinking
08:54 AM DaViruz: my impression of centerless grinders is that they are more about producing ground stock than finished parts
08:55 AM miss0r: DaViruz: for which I think it is perfect. I've never realy wanted one because I believe it cannot be used to make perfect finish on parts
08:55 AM miss0r: already machined parts with other features, that is
08:55 AM DaViruz: though i'd expect that archivists solids of constant width might be an issue
08:56 AM DaViruz: making it produce slightly faceted parts
08:56 AM gregcnc: http://www.mmsonline.com/articles/centerless-grinding-not-magic
08:57 AM archivist: probably use a V or other rollers
08:58 AM miss0r: DaViruz: indeed. there will always be an issue when you remove the stock that is holding it in place.
08:58 AM miss0r: err.. the stock it is resting on
08:59 AM DaViruz: i picked up a vacuum pump from a private ad on i suppose the swedish equivalent of craigslist
09:00 AM DaViruz: the guy had a pretty darn nice cylindrical grinder in his garage
09:00 AM DaViruz: and he was looking to sell it, if only i had the space :/
09:00 AM miss0r: make him an offer. or atleast make him put an add online, so I can swoop it up right in front of you, again :)
09:01 AM archivist: I see moooore shed building north of me in the near future
09:03 AM DaViruz: miss0r: https://www.blocket.se/stockholm/Alcatel_vacuum_turbopump_med_styrenhet_ATP150_69254272.htm?ca=9&w=3
09:03 AM DaViruz: thats the guy
09:04 AM gregcnc: what are you doing with that?
09:04 AM DaViruz: evacuating air
09:04 AM DaViruz: (nice and specific answer huh?)
09:04 AM gregcnc: ;)
09:05 AM miss0r: archivist: I have no idea what you are talking about :)
09:05 AM DaViruz: a farnsworth-hirsch fusor is on the agenda
09:06 AM DaViruz: and possible a few other contraptions as well
09:06 AM DaViruz: possibly*
09:06 AM miss0r: because it is pretty ? :)
09:08 AM gregcnc: hm never heard of that, do you need a lead suit or do you glow afterword?
09:09 AM DaViruz: you at least need a bit of distance between you and the device
09:09 AM DaViruz: they can produce quite a bit of x-rays
09:10 AM DaViruz: as well as neutron radiation, though not really a dangerous level
09:10 AM miss0r: but what would you use it for`?
09:10 AM DaViruz: nothing really
09:11 AM archivist: miss0r, yes you do!
09:11 AM miss0r: its pretty - i get that :) but other than that?
09:11 AM archivist: toys are for playing, pretty is extra
09:12 AM miss0r: So finally we have a good replacement for the lavalamp.
09:13 AM miss0r: This should have the same amount of 'swag' and function as a vulva magnet :)
09:13 AM DaViruz: miss0r: well since barsebäck nuclear power plant was decommissioned we need all the help we can get with keeping the danes at bay by nuclear means ;)
09:13 AM R2E4_bevins: That would be great for a accum table.
09:14 AM miss0r: DaViruz: that is true.. You realy need it. and soon - the danes might start to think they are welcome :)
09:15 AM DaViruz: i have some ideas about improving the fusor design a bit as well
09:16 AM DaViruz: not that i expect it to become feasable for power generation, but perhaps more feasable as a neutron source for scientific work
09:25 AM miss0r: well shit.... on youtube you are at all times only 3 clicks from something horrible... apparantly theres something called "Die Antwoord"... They are trying to pass it as music.. i'm at a loss of words
09:27 AM R2E4_bevins: you guys know classicladder?
09:27 AM R2E4_bevins: guys,girls?
09:27 AM miss0r: apparently it is 'south african culture'...
09:28 AM miss0r: I know ladder programming, if that is of any help. I don't know this particular software thou
09:32 AM miss0r: i'm off. see you around
09:35 AM R2E4_bevins: yeah I know ladder also, but CL is acting bizarre.
09:38 AM gregcnc: hah, google found that goofy lathe https://www.bidspotter.com/en-us/auction-catalogues/glenn-a-winternitz-llc/catalogue-id-bscgl10073/lot-e722fc5b-9f6b-422f-b3e7-a5ec010d3914
09:50 AM cradek: R2E4_bevins: always go ahead and ask your real question. then when someone sees it they can help.
10:11 AM JT-Shop: R2E4_bevins: did you see my post on the forum?
10:32 AM R2E4_bevins: yeah, I am trying that, but it is only for one output. I am adapting it to two outputs.
10:33 AM R2E4_bevins: JT-Shop: BTW, I have another guy that wants a set of boards...... 7i77,5i25,7i70, 2X7i71 and a 7i84
10:34 AM R2E4_bevins: The example with the CL Turret indexing cmorley said to try is not working because I cannot find the "operate" component in CL
10:34 AM R2E4_bevins: Just "assignment"
10:37 AM JT-Shop: look again, I posted twice
10:37 AM JT-Shop: thanks
10:38 AM JT-Shop: R2E4_bevins: the second example alternates between two outputs and they stay on for the length set in the timer
10:42 AM R2E4_bevins: JT-Shop: thanks, I'll look at that.
10:46 AM R2E4_bevins: I keep forgetting to stop the PLC before deleing a rung....... the box doesnt like that........
10:48 AM JT-Shop: lol
10:48 AM JT-Shop: I don't think I've ever stopped the plc
10:48 AM JT-Shop: did you see the second example?
10:53 AM __rob: just looking at tormachs probe routines for their linuxcnc stuff. They seem to use python to basically call predone .ngc subroutines that do the actual probing and set the x,y
10:53 AM __rob: wondering if its possible to drive everything through python
10:53 AM __rob: so I can do everything in python
10:53 AM __rob: rather then with lots of o codes
10:54 AM __rob: so get results in python etc.. from the probe triggering
10:54 AM __rob: running single gcode commands then do stuff in python then run the next etc..
10:54 AM __rob: each time reading the x,y,z values or whavtever
10:55 AM archivist: the gcode is in realtime the python is not
10:55 AM __rob: yea, but for the probing, thats fine
10:56 AM __rob: just need it to touch the workpeice and stop
10:56 AM __rob: then I will command the next steps, presumably I can do a wait of somekind in python to wait for the gcode operation to be complete
10:57 AM __rob: rather than just sleeping some arbitrary amount
10:59 AM __rob: just seems way more of a faff to write in gcode than use python
11:02 AM R2E4_bevins: JT-Shop: yeah I am working on it, the second example.
11:14 AM R2E4_bevins: How do you ref a timer in CL? The timer is TM3, I tried %TM3 and it dont like it, "Unknown Variable"
11:15 AM R2E4_bevins: Could always use the output, but would like to know how to ref a timer contact.
11:15 AM cradek: turn off the "Display symbols" checkbox and see what label it has
11:16 AM JT-Shop: you have to reference one of the bits of the timer like %TM3.V for current value iirc
11:26 AM R2E4_bevins: JT-Shop: Thanks, that works for the timer contact. Is this working for you? When TM1 gets output it triggers timer TM0, which both outputs are true.
11:26 AM R2E4_bevins: I can never have both outputs true at the same time.
11:35 AM R2E4_bevins: i GOT IT WORKING
11:44 AM jesseg: What's your guys opinion on the usability of this 0.010" thick 2" carbide slotting saw? www.ebay.com/itm/371342282001
11:44 AM jesseg: it is gonna shatter first time I use it or is that a usable tool? lol
11:44 AM jesseg: seems awfully thin to be made of carbide and be very strong
11:45 AM jesseg: or would I be better off with a plain HSS for slotting un-heated W1 drill rod?
11:45 AM gregcnc: it all depends on how good your tooling it
11:45 AM gregcnc: runout, square, etc
11:45 AM jesseg: is?
11:45 AM jesseg: ahh
11:46 AM gregcnc: I've seen .005" carbide saws
11:46 AM jesseg: how about that
11:51 AM archivist: make sure things are clamped well when slitting :)
12:02 PM jesseg: yeah otherwise it can talk to ya then make a demonstration if things aren't firmly fastened :P
12:04 PM R2E4_bevins: Does classicladder run in reatime or user space? I am having timing issues with it, so just wondering if this could be the problem.
12:05 PM cradek: it's realtime
12:05 PM cradek: you added classicladder_rt to a thread right? that's the execution part
12:07 PM R2E4_bevins: yeah I added it. I just checked
12:09 PM R2E4_bevins: I run through the logic and the logic works but CL is for some reason doing something unexpected. its running the same rung twice......
12:10 PM R2E4_bevins: The CL loop is 20usec, so maybe it is lag between hardware and the loop. Thats the only thing I can figure.
12:12 PM cradek: if you're asking a question I don't understand what it is
12:12 PM cradek: I don't know what you mean by lag
12:13 PM cradek: the realtime thread runs in thread order, and you can control that order
12:13 PM cradek: one thing doesn't start until the previous thing finishes
12:15 PM jdh: it would be a very odd plc that had any mechanism to run a run twice
12:16 PM jdh: vs. standard imputs, logic, outputs
12:16 PM R2E4_bevins: ok, I'll check the logic again.
12:17 PM archivist: have you got something in the wrong order in the hal
12:19 PM R2E4_bevins: I only have CL input pinned to hal input
12:20 PM archivist: if a hal pin in reads a hal out in the wrong order it can/will be a cycle late
12:20 PM R2E4_bevins: 1 hal input with CL input, thats all I am doing now to test. I dont want to hookup the outputs yet. Just testing in CL
12:22 PM R2E4_bevins: It is intermittent, thats why I think it is a timing issue. I dont have the outputs connected yet in hal
12:24 PM JT-Shop: one trick I use is to connect the output to a counter so you can see for sure how many times the output toggles from off to on
12:29 PM R2E4_bevins: Maybe it is debounce....... It seems to do it more often when I hit the button fast.
12:30 PM R2E4_bevins: This is for releasing the tool in the spindle and locking it. I can always check if it is locked or released and if not resend the command.
12:30 PM jdh: does CL have the ability to change a coil more than once per scan?
12:31 PM jdh: make a one shot for the input
12:32 PM R2E4_bevins: I wanted to do it in CL because I am not that good in HAL. May have to go that route.
12:34 PM R2E4_bevins: The button is on the spindle itself and this is for just changing tools manually. In the remap it shouldn't be an issue, unless locking and relocking within the toolchange will effect CL.
12:51 PM JT-Shop: on my spindle you have to hold the button in while you remove or install a tool manually and when you let go it clamps
12:57 PM jdh: seems adequate and simple
01:00 PM JT-Shop: jdh: no immediate outs
01:02 PM jdh: do any plc do thar?
01:17 PM JT-Shop: yea AD iirc
01:21 PM R2E4_bevins: JT-Shop: Mine needs a pulse to unlock out1 and a pulse to lock out2
01:22 PM R2E4_bevins: two seperate outputs each requiring a pulse to operate.
01:24 PM R2E4_bevins: I added a counter to count, and I have no extra counts. 99% it works, sometimes the same output fires, then the next one and it gets back in sync.
01:26 PM varesa_ is now known as varesa
01:30 PM pink_vampire: any life
01:32 PM R2E4_bevins: good or bad life?
01:32 PM R2E4_bevins: one bad life here.......
01:32 PM R2E4_bevins: lol
01:32 PM JT-Shop: you might debounce the push button
01:33 PM R2E4_bevins: ok, I'll try that
01:33 PM R2E4_bevins: before I pin it to CL?
01:34 PM JT-Shop: yea
01:34 PM JT-Shop: or in CL
01:35 PM gregcnc: measuring threads https://www.instagram.com/p/BQn4lfshrFH/
01:39 PM R2E4_bevins: JT-Shop: you can debounce in CL?
02:10 PM jdh: input + timer
02:11 PM R2E4_bevins: This not right? net switch-raw hm2_5i25.0.7i84.1.3.input-21 => debounce.1.in it says pin not found, I did a loadrt debounce cfg=3, the addf debounce.1 servo-thread, then the delay setp debounce.1.delay 15
02:21 PM chopper79: Well.... I am finding that CL is not for me. I have read and read all sorts of things and it is not clicking for me. Any other options for ATC?
02:23 PM archivist: an external micro with a brain
02:23 PM R2E4_bevins: chopper79: which part dont you understand? the logic or connecting inputs to outputs?
02:23 PM chopper79: Both
02:23 PM R2E4_bevins: or rather connecting CL pins to hal pins?
02:24 PM chopper79: I am trying to figure out how to even begin. I have documented all the pins and sequence I need. Can not figure it out.
02:24 PM chopper79: Tried doing some simple things like make my spindle orientate.... no luck
02:25 PM R2E4_bevins: Start with understanding CL first and how it interacts. Dont touch HAL, you need to understand ladder logic.
02:28 PM chopper79: Reading will not help me to much with understandning. Doing will though. Just not able to get the doing part going.
02:28 PM R2E4_bevins: do a simple rung a n/o contact with an output in CL. then tie the n/o contact in hal with net sp-a-button classicladder.0.in-01 hm2_5i25.0.7i84.1.3.input-21
02:29 PM R2E4_bevins: label your n/o contact in CL with %I1, then pushing hardware button you will see the contact change state in CL and the output will be on until you release the button.
02:30 PM R2E4_bevins: once you do that, then put a n/o contact in parallel with %I1 and name it the same as your output %Q0, and when you push the button, it will latch the relay
02:33 PM R2E4_bevins: The tie another button in hal to another input in CL %I2 but use the notted contact and put it just before the output. That button will release the latch.
02:33 PM R2E4_bevins: That you need to understand before you try anything else.......
02:34 PM R2E4_bevins: but thats coming from someone that cant debounce a simple input....lol
02:36 PM * JT-Shop thinks he needs to make a video of basic classicladder stuff
02:36 PM CaptHindsight: holy magoly it's over 60F outside!
02:37 PM JT-Shop: 60 my butt it's 71F
02:37 PM chopper79: JT-Shop: That would be awesome
02:37 PM chopper79: R2E4_bevins: I will attempt to do this
02:37 PM JT-Shop: the classicladder interface is a bit clunky but once you figure out how it works the rest is easy
02:38 PM chopper79: I am sure it is. I am just not getting my mind wrapped around it.
02:38 PM CaptHindsight: time for a long drive to pick up metal
02:39 PM R2E4_bevins: JT-Shop: clunky I would say thats an understatement..... lol
02:41 PM chopper79: Once I get it I will run with it. Well I will continue to play a bit with it and see if I can get something simple to function. Thank you
02:46 PM chopper79: Where does the net xxxx classicladder.0.in-01 get its signal?
02:52 PM chopper79: net home-x => classicladder.0.in-00 => hm_2 hm2_7i80.0.7i69.0.1.input-00
02:53 PM chopper79: Does that sequence look about right?
02:56 PM chopper79: net home-x => classicladder.0.in-00 => classicladder.0.out-00 => hm_2 hm2_7i80.0.7i69.0.1.input-00
02:56 PM chopper79: Or that one?
03:00 PM R2E4_bevins: no
03:00 PM R2E4_bevins: the first one
03:00 PM pcw_mesa: the second can't work because I would presume classicladder.0.out-00 is an HAL output pin as is hm_2 hm2_7i80.0.7i69.0.1.input-00
03:00 PM pcw_mesa: you cant connect two HAL outputs
03:01 PM chopper79: ok... Just trying to get a grasp on how the signal come into CL and how it get back out to the proper destination.
03:03 PM R2E4_bevins: the second CL input %I1 goes in parallel with %I0 to create a latch. You dont need to connect a HAL pin to it. It is a variabl from the output, whenever the output goes high that will follow creating the latch.
03:04 PM R2E4_bevins: You can connect the CL out to a hal pin that is an out and the hardware output will follow the CL output.
03:07 PM R2E4_bevins: The latch contact shoule have the same name as the output, re: CL output %Q0 the latching contact in CL should be %Q0
03:08 PM R2E4_bevins: Correction from above not %I1 should be %Q0 as the latching input contact.
03:10 PM chopper79: I greatly appreciate the assistance from all of you, but this is not setting with me at all. I will try things and read a bit more and see if something clicks with CL. Hate to bother you all about this small stuff.
03:10 PM chopper79: Last step need to get my mill runninig again and get back to making parts
03:12 PM gregcnc: So I went to cut a Thinbit holder at the bandsaw, which trashed the blade. Most cut like butter, this was like HSS in the middle.
03:19 PM R2E4_bevins: I can live with this issue for now. When it fires the timer twice, I can tell because the tool doesnt release, hitting it again releases it.
03:26 PM R2E4_bevins: I will figure out a more viable option later.
03:27 PM chopper79: real quick..... CL will have multiple sections and each sections has rungs. When section one is activated on its rung by the input needed then only that section functions until an input is activated on the second section to allow the second sections rungs to work. Or does CL run all section and rungs one right after another regardless of what is activated?
03:28 PM chopper79: if that sections inputs are satisfied
03:32 PM jthornton: https://youtu.be/JONq1hoXMYQ
03:32 PM * jthornton goes back to work
03:32 PM R2E4_bevins: no, the sections I assume are to logically seperate for easy to distinguish between your logic functions.
03:32 PM jthornton: sorry no sound or subtitles, I'll add subtitles later
03:32 PM R2E4_bevins: It will scan all rungs and you dont need anything to happen in one section to work in another.
03:33 PM jthornton: the sections are the order that the logic is solved
03:34 PM JT-Shop: chopper79: vid 1 above
03:36 PM R2E4_bevins: JT-Shop: Does it matter if I use Q in places where I should be using B? B is internal to CL and Q can be linked in HAL.... correct?
03:37 PM R2E4_bevins: maybe thats where the my hiccup is having a HAL enabed output with no pin attached in HAL
03:40 PM nallar is now known as Ross
03:41 PM JT-Shop: depends on where you're trying to connect to Q is a classicladder output to hal and I is an input from hal and B is internal
03:42 PM JT-Shop: I would not use Q for internal bits, if you need more just up the amount that gets loaded
03:53 PM R2E4_bevins: ok I will look into fixing that.
04:01 PM Deejay: gn8
04:18 PM * JT-Shop wonders if chopper79 looked at the video?
04:19 PM R2E4_bevins: I did...
04:19 PM JT-Shop: :)
04:19 PM JT-Shop: did it help any?
04:20 PM R2E4_bevins: Thats where I figured I should be using the internal pins in CL instead of Q and I on some.... so yes it helped.
04:21 PM JT-Shop: yea
04:21 PM R2E4_bevins: I am sending the guy over to your site with the list of boards he needs.
04:21 PM JT-Shop: thanks
04:22 PM JT-Shop: I have a couple of boards that are out of stock but on the way
04:23 PM R2E4_bevins: He is going to need 5i25-7i77, 7i74, 7i70, 2 X 7i71 and a 7i84
04:23 PM R2E4_bevins: Now thats a pack of I/O
04:24 PM JT-Shop: yea, the 7i84 will be here wednesday or thursday rest are in stock
04:24 PM JT-Shop: I love the smart serial cards
04:25 PM R2E4_bevins: Cool, so do I.
04:26 PM JT-Shop: wow that is 192 I/O not counting the 7i77
04:28 PM R2E4_bevins: 126 outputs and 111 inputs? something like that
04:28 PM JT-Shop: he might need a idc 26 pin to db25 connector for the second port
04:28 PM R2E4_bevins: yeah, I just forgot about that, counting the din rail mounts also
04:29 PM JT-Shop: https://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=71&product_id=70
04:29 PM lunada: hi guys.
04:30 PM R2E4_bevins: yeah and the external one
04:30 PM JT-Shop: howdy good thing pink is not around she might get offended lol
04:30 PM JT-Shop: https://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=71&product_id=59
04:31 PM lunada: got my toolchanger working, finally.
04:31 PM lunada: thanks for the help
04:31 PM JT-Shop: straight out of the 7i74 you can have 384 I/O
04:32 PM JT-Shop: I love it when a plan comes together!
04:32 PM lunada: 384? nice
04:32 PM lunada: almost enough lol
04:32 PM chopper79: JT-Shop: Sorry I just got back from getting the kids and found a box of fudge twinkies. I will go through the messages now
04:33 PM R2E4_bevins: 8 7i70-7i71 combinations i
04:33 PM pcw_mesa: with 8 7I90HDs you could have 576 I/O (just 5V though)
04:33 PM lunada: nice
04:34 PM JT-Shop: kids are important... if you lose one the wife will get mad
04:34 PM R2E4_bevins: 5v ash......... sending 5v out to the machine and back doesnt sound like fun to me....lol
04:34 PM lunada: i forgot how many i needed but i think it was around 50 or 60 inputs and 16 outputs
04:36 PM lunada: hey i have a minor tuning issue on the z axis. it's nice and smooth in one direction.... less than .001" following error. as soon as i go in the opposite direction the following error ramps off the grid
04:36 PM pcw_mesa: The 7I90HD just has 5V I/O but a standard RS-422 sserial interface to the host
04:36 PM lunada: would that be a bias thing?
04:37 PM pcw_mesa: maybe, might also be a tuning issue
04:37 PM lunada: it's a counterweighted z axis.
04:37 PM JT-Shop: on a 7i78 can you use the spindle enable to enable the stepper drives?
04:37 PM chopper79: JT-Shop: nice video.... thank you. I will begin my journey.
04:37 PM Roguish: lunada: which way is the error? up or down. remember in Z direction gravity works!
04:38 PM lunada: down seems to be off
04:38 PM pcw_mesa: The 7I78 spindle enable also enables the analog out
04:39 PM Roguish: is it over countered? therefore working hard on the down drive?
04:39 PM JT-Shop: I might just use the 5v from the power supply to enable the stepper drives
04:40 PM lunada: well it's a production machine. not home made, so i doubt it could be that far off
04:40 PM chopper79: My goal is to have this ATC working by the end of the weekend. Shoul dbe enough time I would hope.
04:40 PM pcw_mesa: most step drives have a disable, not enable
04:40 PM lunada: i got x and y and one direction of z perfect, but the z in the other direction is off
04:40 PM JT-Shop: chopper79: do one step at a time :)
04:41 PM pcw_mesa: lunada: what hardware?
04:41 PM chopper79: I was planninig on that since I have my sequence printed out. I figured I would tackle one item at a time and keep building to the next one
04:41 PM lunada: 5i25/7i77
04:42 PM R2E4_bevins: lunada: counterbalanced with weight or air?
04:42 PM lunada: sorry, 6i25
04:42 PM lunada: weight
04:42 PM Roguish: lunada: what do you mean by 'perfect' ? following error = ????
04:42 PM chopper79: First one after following your video is to get the tool change command into CL
04:42 PM R2E4_bevins: ah, I have one counterbalanced with air and it can be adjusted.
04:42 PM pcw_mesa: lunada: if its a pncconf created config make sure you delete the maxerror settings
04:43 PM lunada: well i guess i should say good enough.... mostly .0002"
04:43 PM chopper79: Which should be this one right here: iocontrol.0.tool-change
04:43 PM jthornton: these are some chinese ones that have ena - and ena + a black box looking thing
04:43 PM lunada: it is, thanks pcw_mesa
04:44 PM lunada: if it's less than .001" at max velocity i'm good with it
04:44 PM jthornton: https://www.amazon.com/Updated-version-TB6600-Stepper-Micro-Step/dp/B01CWMR1JG/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1487369673&sr=8-2
04:44 PM jthornton: that one
04:45 PM jthornton: you do have to take them apart and check for loose screws etc lol
04:46 PM R2E4_bevins: I would never go back to steppers.....
04:47 PM chopper79: speaking of stepper drivers.... interested in opinions on the 7i32 mesa dual drivers.
04:47 PM chopper79: Normally I would stay servos on builds but cost for steppers is nice these days.
04:47 PM chopper79: Budget system essentially
04:48 PM pcw_mesa: jthornton: if you are not using all 4 Axis you could use a spare step/dir output for enable
04:48 PM pcw_mesa: chopper79: the 7II32 is not supported by LinuxCNC
04:48 PM JT-Shop: thanks
04:49 PM JT-Shop: chopper79: did the video give you an idea how to get started with classicladder?
04:49 PM chopper79: dang... trying to find a solid driver so I can get away formt hese china ones
04:49 PM chopper79: JT-Shop: yes it did. Thank you
04:49 PM JT-Shop: how many volts?
04:51 PM chopper79: If that was a question for me JT then I need up to 50v and 3amps max driver
04:51 PM chopper79: 4 axis
04:52 PM chopper79: 36v is typical for me though
04:52 PM JT-Shop: http://www.geckodrive.com/geckodrive-step-motor-drives/g251x.html
04:52 PM chopper79: smaller systems and the larger ones I have been designing are all servo based
04:53 PM JT-Shop: or a g540
04:53 PM chopper79: Not a huge gecko fan.... I can not explain why though. Might be due to use of the g320 I used in the past.
04:54 PM JT-Shop: that some servo drive?
04:54 PM chopper79: Also I prefer to get things form one place and that is why the mesa drivers caught my eye.
04:54 PM chopper79: yes dc servo drives and have used some f their stepper drives also.
04:55 PM JT-Shop: I used the G203V on my plasma, never had a problem
04:55 PM chopper79: from and form..... have found myself doing that an awful lot lately.
04:57 PM chopper79: I have been giving some real thought to changing from my wantai drives and motors to teknic clearpaths
04:57 PM chopper79: but $200 vs $1700 kinda kills the budget
04:58 PM JT-Shop: yea that's a big chunk of change difference
04:59 PM JT-Shop: leadshine is supposed to be good drives
05:00 PM chopper79: yes, and high acceleration values that would be used would not play nice with delrin anti-backlash nuts. They would not last long. So the exspense of ballscrews come into play then as well.
05:01 PM chopper79: I have used leadshine, wantai, MS, and many others and they all are close. Just a price change is all.
05:01 PM JT-Shop: and we have firmware for the MX3660 and MX4660
05:02 PM chopper79: All-in-ones kinda scare me. I have always been a modular person.
05:03 PM chopper79: All-in-ones save space and wiring so.....
05:03 PM JT-Shop: yea, if you can't get the drives to replace one you lose the whole thing
05:04 PM lunada: pcw_mesa: i didnt see max error settings, just FERROR and MIN FERROR. is it in the ini file?
05:04 PM chopper79: oh the trade offs. I give the gecko items a second look.
05:05 PM JT-Shop: hmm the DM422 is only $70
05:05 PM JT-Shop: http://americanmotiontech.com/products/stepper-drives/digital-cnc-stepper-drives/
05:05 PM chopper79: not bad
05:06 PM JT-Shop: yea if you use 36v the DM4 looks good
05:07 PM chopper79: same price as the wantai dq542ma
05:08 PM pcw_mesa: lunada: in the hal file
05:10 PM R2E4_bevins: You guys know of AC servo drives that dont have propriatory encoder signals? I need to buy some 1.8KW ac servo drives, but am not having any luck. They all say they are propriatory.
05:10 PM R2E4_bevins: Have to replace some cheap Chineese drives....
05:13 PM Roguish: gotta love it. writing invoices..... only thing better is cashing checks !!!
05:18 PM JT-Shop: I got a little check today yippie
05:36 PM chopper79: Well all. Dinner and movie night with the wife. Kids at grandmas and its our 18yr. Need to keep her happy so I can work on this mill the rest of the weekend. Have a good night everyone or day if it is that time for you.
05:44 PM san_51pc_ is now known as san_51pc
06:16 PM Roguish: chopper79: happy wife, happy lik,e......... have a good date night.
06:17 PM Roguish: happy wife, happy life.
06:17 PM Roguish: fat fingers.
06:24 PM * JT-Shop listens to Eric Johnson again
06:50 PM lunada: pcw_mesa: by deleting the maxerror, does that basically mean i need to start over with my tuning? it was working well until i deleted those lines in hal, and now it wont move an inch without a ferror.
06:51 PM lunada: which is totally fine... i just want to make sure that it makes sense that it would do that, and not that it's something else
06:57 PM pcw_mesa: is probably something else
06:58 PM pcw_mesa: though you may have to reduce P as you may get violent oscillations which were impossible before
07:18 PM icecube45: Hey guys, anyone mind helping me narrow down an error? I'm getting "can't add linear move at line 5517", yet lines 5510-5520 have seemingly no differences in gcode structure.. nothing that I'd expect to break it, just G1 moves
07:24 PM MacGalempsy: evening gents
07:35 PM malcom2073: Evening
07:45 PM BeachBumPete: evening
07:54 PM malcom2073: Man, using this pick and place at work makes me want to build my own, I feel I could do better
08:12 PM MacGalempsy: you going to start making your own led boards?
08:12 PM MacGalempsy: dirvers?
08:12 PM malcom2073: Nah, I don't have the electronics knowlege to design stuff myself unfortunatly
08:13 PM MacGalempsy: i saw some this morning that are 50w boards with the 220v drivers built into each unit.
08:13 PM MacGalempsy: 50w led that is
08:14 PM Tom_itx: built in heatsinks?
08:14 PM lunada: pcw_mesa: yep, had to reduce P. seems ok now, thanks
08:14 PM MacGalempsy: no. that is what malcom is doing on his cnc
08:14 PM Tom_itx: i see
08:14 PM MacGalempsy: they were like 10x for $69
08:15 PM MacGalempsy: i was amazed that at 220v it pulled less than 5amps
08:15 PM Tom_itx: ohm's law
08:15 PM MacGalempsy: yeah. just hadnt thought about it
08:15 PM gregcnc: LED is great for consumption
08:16 PM malcom2073: I need to find myself an EE buddy heh
08:17 PM gregcnc: I have to replace the last two fixtures with T8 LED in my workshop. one ballast died this week
08:17 PM Tom_itx: i got some leds from sam's for my garage
08:17 PM gregcnc: 4 footers or?
08:17 PM Tom_itx: yeah 4
08:18 PM MacGalempsy: what calculations go into heat output?
08:18 PM Tom_itx: i'm waiting for the rest of the flourescent to die
08:18 PM gregcnc: heat output of what?
08:18 PM MacGalempsy: generated by the led
08:18 PM gregcnc: the garage needs them two, I only have 2 screw in CFL
08:19 PM Tom_itx: CFL were a flop
08:19 PM gregcnc: basically all of the power is heat
08:19 PM MacGalempsy: ok.
08:19 PM Tom_itx: http://www.mechatronix-asia.com/LED_heat_sink_calculation_simulation_thermal_design.html
08:20 PM MacGalempsy: cool
08:20 PM gregcnc: i guess 70% heat 30% light
08:21 PM R2E4_bevins: saluaH
08:24 PM gregcnc: the T8 LEd that work with ballast do they work on 120VAC without a ballast?
08:28 PM gregcnc: seems like you need a ballast
08:31 PM MacGalempsy: it would be cool to make a test rig and either use a digital temp probe at the base of each led, or a thermal cam
08:32 PM MacGalempsy: then determine the flow rate from what it takes to keep the unit at 100c
08:32 PM malcom2073: MacGalempsy: Maximum flow rate is best.
08:32 PM malcom2073: In the case of my setup
08:33 PM MacGalempsy: ah. ok. i was thinking about power optimization
08:34 PM MacGalempsy: and it could keep the pressure down on the fittings
08:35 PM malcom2073: You want them as cool as possible, which also means maximum heat transfer
08:36 PM malcom2073: i need to run a pressure test, see at what point regular hoses pop off without barbs on the fittings
08:36 PM MacGalempsy: do you think being too cool would cause ineffeciency?
08:37 PM MacGalempsy: that article that tom_itx linked to says 87-92c is optimal
08:38 PM malcom2073: MacGalempsy: afaik leds are brightest at cooler temperature
08:38 PM malcom2073: And, keeping them cooler allows them to last longer
08:40 PM malcom2073: And that link states that with their design you see those kind of temperatures measured
08:40 PM malcom2073: And that's because they're passively cooled, you can't get great cooling
08:41 PM SpeedEvil: I was recently contemplating a silly 18W LED torch, about ~15mm diameter, 40mm long. Annoyingly, I couldn't find a fast enough fan.
08:42 PM malcom2073: Heh
08:42 PM MacGalempsy: dont make the bulb life too long
08:42 PM SpeedEvil: ~12l/min at 60C
08:42 PM SpeedEvil: (60C delta-t)
08:43 PM MacGalempsy: max life of 50000hrs is 5.7yrs. cut it back to 1 or 2 years :)
08:44 PM malcom2073: No reason to
08:44 PM MacGalempsy: yeah, sales
08:44 PM malcom2073: That's wasted heat if it goes into the air
08:44 PM malcom2073: I'm not selling these
08:44 PM SpeedEvil: Efficiency goes up notably if you drop back on the power per LED too
08:44 PM MacGalempsy: well, you mentioned extra heat for the soil
08:44 PM malcom2073: Right, if it goes into the air, it doesn't get to the soil
08:45 PM malcom2073: So better to get all the heat out of the led as much as possible
08:46 PM MacGalempsy: it may go into the air, but that doesnt necessarily mean it doesnt help the greenhouse
08:46 PM MacGalempsy: it could mean you dont need to use an extra heater
08:47 PM * malcom2073 shrugs
08:57 PM MacGalempsy: you can probably tell its pretty boring around here
08:57 PM MacGalempsy: sitting in the command center for 12hrs. at least they have net and cable
08:58 PM malcom2073: Heh
08:58 PM MacGalempsy: next tour I will bring some gear
08:59 PM MacGalempsy: just didnt know what they had, but this setup is pretty sweet
08:59 PM MacGalempsy: it even has a kitchen in here
09:00 PM malcom2073: That's good
09:08 PM malcom2073: Whatcha doing with the boring down time?
09:21 PM MacGalempsy: sleeping
09:21 PM MacGalempsy: doing pushups and 8min abs
09:21 PM MacGalempsy: lol
09:22 PM MacGalempsy: we arent too far from town. walmart is only 30min away
09:23 PM malcom2073: heh
09:24 PM MacGalempsy: its amazing that they have been drilling the whole lateral in one tool run
09:24 PM MacGalempsy: but when it comes to a trip, I might head to okc for the day
09:31 PM gregcnc: saw some line boring on gold rush today, what a joke they just cleaned up the high spots.
09:32 PM R2E4_bevins: Is Peter around?
09:32 PM R2E4_bevins: PCW ?
09:34 PM MacGalempsy: line boring?
09:37 PM gregcnc: boring but with a prtoable "lathe" in the field
09:40 PM pcw_home: ?
09:42 PM R2E4_bevins: Hi Peter,
09:42 PM R2E4_bevins: I want to run something by you.
09:43 PM R2E4_bevins: I want to make my own sim racing steering........ ac servo motor that will receive forcefeedback from computer and transfer into forces in the wheel .
09:43 PM R2E4_bevins: The wheel would be directly connected to the servo shaft.
09:44 PM SpeedEvil: Why AC servo?
09:44 PM R2E4_bevins: Is there a mesa board with a single servo out and some I/O
09:45 PM R2E4_bevins: AC servo for feel and can up the pgain to get forefeedback feel.
09:45 PM R2E4_bevins: I dont understand fully how they are doing it yet, but some are.
09:49 PM pcw_home: by servo out, do you mean servo motor drive or just analog/step-dir
09:49 PM R2E4_bevins: motor drive
09:49 PM pcw_home: you probably want torque mode for that
09:50 PM R2E4_bevins: yes
09:50 PM pcw_home: you could use a 8I20 but its probably way too big
09:52 PM pcw_home: Or contact the STMBL people and see if they have a kit
09:55 PM R2E4_bevins: I want to use a 1.8K servo, so I dont think it is too big. But what the lisence for?
10:03 PM pcw_home: licence?
10:03 PM R2E4_bevins: It says on your price list lisence fee if not using mesa cards or something like that
10:03 PM pcw_home: not for the 8I20
10:04 PM R2E4_bevins: oh ok.
10:04 PM pcw_home: thats SoftDMC
10:04 PM pcw_home: bbl movie time