#linuxcnc Logs
Feb 16 2017
#linuxcnc Calendar
03:17 AM minibnz: evening all
03:44 AM Deejay: moin
03:47 AM minibnz: evening
05:03 AM jthornton: morning
05:03 AM Deejay: heya
05:04 AM jthornton: what's up over your way?
05:05 AM XXCoder: there is bills on way in usa to get rid of EPA and dept of education.
05:06 AM XXCoder: "wonderful".
05:10 AM jthornton: you gotta love organizations that spend all the money they are allocated just so they don't get a budget cut the next year
05:10 AM XXCoder: so you support such cuts?
05:11 AM jthornton: dunno a thing about them
05:12 AM XXCoder: "cuts" is wrong word really
05:12 AM XXCoder: when its total shutdown of those depts
05:12 AM Deejay: if they spend their money to me, i would love them, too
05:12 AM Deejay: ;)
05:14 AM XXCoder: if youre curious, EPA is envormental protection agency
05:14 AM jthornton: this new illuminated keyboard makes it easy to find a single key in the dark
05:15 AM XXCoder: theyre also deleting global climate data
05:25 AM XXCoder: whats up jthornton
05:25 AM XXCoder: hows shed
05:27 AM jthornton: new shop is 90% now, just need to bring services in and put up itch on the gable ends
05:29 AM XXCoder: fancy
05:29 AM XXCoder: I hate waiting.
05:43 AM XXCoder: chinese shipping takes so long
05:44 AM minibnz: i finally started to clean up these 38mm holes in the block of aluminium.. i had drilled the pilot holes with a 8mm drill that went pretty good if you ignore the upgrades that were required.. now i have a nice big 400oz/in stepper hanging off that is a 4:1 gearbox and i have even managed to reduce the Z axis backlash down to 0.15mm.. haven't fitted the bigger motors to X & Y but i am thinking i probably should and see how much faster thi
05:44 AM minibnz: s clean up process could become..
05:44 AM jthornton: I've gotten stuff from china in a couple of weeks sometimes
05:45 AM minibnz: i ordered some little boards from china 42days ago and they still havent arrived... :(
05:45 AM XXCoder: ow
05:45 AM minibnz: usually takes 2-3weeks sometimes faster..
05:45 AM Deejay: why order in china? america first!
05:46 AM Deejay: if donald hears that...
05:46 AM minibnz: im in australia and the parts are all made in china..
05:46 AM Deejay: ah okay ;)
05:46 AM minibnz: and australia is already great :) even if we buy crap from china.. :p
05:46 AM XXCoder: lord dampnut\
05:46 AM Deejay: hrhr
05:48 AM minibnz: i mean i could buy them from a australian reseller for about 10x the cost if i am in a real rush..
05:50 AM pink_vampire: hi
05:50 AM Deejay: hi pink
05:51 AM XXCoder: hey She who turns into bat
05:51 AM minibnz: i have walked away from my mill, left it running this weird gcode that dxf2gcode generated.. i drew concentric circles out to 13mm in 0.5mm steps and pumped that thru dxf2gcode.py and told it to cut to a depth of 65mm in 0.5mm steps..
05:51 AM minibnz: it seems to be doing it in a sort of funnell shape.. i thought it would have done striaght tubes up and down but its more like a funnel.. which will probably work better for me but i am surprised..
05:52 AM minibnz: i am expecting to go in there soon and find i have lunched a 12mm cutter when it tries to cut the outter circle before the inner circles have been cleared..
05:52 AM Deejay: never seen that with dxf2gcode
05:53 AM minibnz: i didnt think it was that smart..
05:53 AM Deejay: but i am not using the latest version of dxf2gcode
05:53 AM minibnz: neither am i.. i had that much trouble getting it to work once i did i am not going to break it..
05:54 AM minibnz: i run it on linux and osx.
05:55 AM XXCoder: minibnz: yeah that makes for less tool deflection overall
05:55 AM XXCoder: less wear too
05:55 AM XXCoder: just do whole length at final finish pass
06:00 AM minibnz: XXCoder thats why i was thinking it was doing it that way..
06:01 AM XXCoder: theres similiaor style that does width first
06:01 AM XXCoder: spirl outwards
06:01 AM XXCoder: then new depth
06:01 AM XXCoder: repeat till final depth + .005" and width of hole -.005"
06:01 AM XXCoder: then do final pass
06:02 AM XXCoder: rhoughly anyway as I have seem .01" final passes too
06:02 AM minibnz: i was thinking a spiral outwards first would be cool.
06:02 AM pink_vampire: minibnz: any pics from the machining, and simulation of the tool path?
06:02 AM XXCoder: I have seen ones that use drill for initial center hole
06:03 AM minibnz: i took the meat of the hole out by drilling 12 holes that joined up..
06:03 AM XXCoder: the larger hole that has +.0005" -0 has insane steps
06:03 AM XXCoder: 1: center drill, 2: drill 3: mill out to near final size 4: ream 5: lapping (not in machine)
06:04 AM XXCoder: unsure if lapping is right word
06:04 AM pink_vampire: minibnz: did you pilot the holes fist?
06:04 AM minibnz: i will wait until the sides are smooth then i might stop it and increase some settings or maybe try hand coding a true spiral.
06:05 AM pink_vampire: what are you trying to do?
06:05 AM archivist: break something probably
06:06 AM minibnz: Pink_vampire yeah i drew them in solid works then let dxf2gcode have a try and it failed to do nice then i plucked the XY's and learnt how to use G83 peck drilling.. found my z motor was too small now i have upgraded it twice and here i am.. trimming up the holes.
06:07 AM minibnz: i have a large block of aluminium that is 65mm sq 250 long and it needs two 38mm holes thru from flat face to flat face (so its 65mm deep 38mm diam) then i need to drill some other holes but its these big holes i am working on. my boring bar i made doesnt adjust out far enough to do it sensibly..
06:08 AM minibnz: archivist is sorta correct... i am trying to do something and am happy to break stuff learning.. :)
06:08 AM archivist: I hazmemory
06:08 AM minibnz: at some point i have to get some confidence in my mill that i can tell it to do stuff and it will do it..
06:09 AM pink_vampire: 36 dia 65 depth, in aluminum?
06:09 AM minibnz: pink yes. on a seig X2
06:10 AM minibnz: the stepper motor i pulled apart and lathed down the shaft is working fine with the gearbox...
06:10 AM pink_vampire: the x2 is like my G0704
06:10 AM pink_vampire: what endmill are you using?
06:10 AM minibnz: yeah i get about 220mm of Z travel and about 250 in X and 150 in Y
06:11 AM minibnz: its a 12mm HSS cutter that has a long shank but only has flutes about 30mm
06:11 AM pink_vampire: it is fine
06:11 AM pink_vampire: how many flutes?
06:11 AM minibnz: and i use coolant
06:11 AM minibnz: 4 flute
06:11 AM pink_vampire: rpm?
06:11 AM minibnz: about 500
06:12 AM jthornton: hmm got a 7i92M -> 7i78 and think I'll connect a 7i84 to the 7i78 for 32 inputs and 16 outputs
06:12 AM minibnz: havent calibrated the spindle yes.
06:12 AM pink_vampire: what feed rate?
06:12 AM minibnz: 75mm/min
06:12 AM pink_vampire: depth of cut?
06:13 AM minibnz: 0.25mm in z and 0.25mm in XY
06:13 AM minibnz: it will take a while but if i dont have to watch it or wind the handles im okay with that.
06:15 AM minibnz: when i drilled the holes that made this hole the bit wandered so i have some uneven lumps so i cant increase the feed rates until its all even and i know what its going to do. or at least have a idea of what it might do.
06:15 AM pink_vampire: ok try that, (you can jog it for the test) 1000rpm, take about half diameter of the endmill in conventunal milling, depth of cut about 2mm, and 140mm/min feed
06:16 AM pink_vampire: minibnz: ^
06:16 AM minibnz: oh wow you really push you mill..
06:17 AM XXCoder: dogs and biggest rat species in world. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCwcJsBYL3o
06:17 AM pink_vampire: minibnz: 0.25mm depth is to small, you are dusting the material.
06:18 AM minibnz: Pink_vampire i will have to install the bigger steppers for that..
06:18 AM pink_vampire: no
06:18 AM minibnz: and yes the swarfe tends to be fine.
06:18 AM pink_vampire: are you climbe?
06:18 AM minibnz: 140mm i y axis will skip steps under load.
06:19 AM pink_vampire: the 0.25mm is climb?
06:19 AM minibnz: yeah i am climb milling atm
06:19 AM pink_vampire: this is why you are skipping steps!
06:19 AM minibnz: oh no i skip steps with out cutting over 125mm
06:20 AM minibnz: in X & Y
06:21 AM pink_vampire: if you climb a material it want to grub the endmill, and it apply alot of load to the machine (in climb the chip start large and become thin)
06:22 AM minibnz: ok i will change the gcode and see what happens.
06:22 AM pink_vampire: in conventional the chip start very small and the endmill push out of the stock' so the load on the machine is very small.
06:22 AM pink_vampire: don't cut more then half the diameter
06:23 AM minibnz: ok will give it a go a soon as it clean up these odd bits.
06:24 AM pink_vampire: I'm using almost the whole length of the end mill but with very very light cut about 0.2 mm side cut
06:24 AM minibnz: might also check the Z gibs while i am there i think they might be a little loose the head wants to fall really easy. it didnt wobble when i checked it last but its been a while and i have messed with it a bit..
06:24 AM pink_vampire: this way you can use the whole tool
06:24 AM minibnz: i do that at the end :)
06:25 AM pink_vampire: I have about 0.2mm of play in the Z gibs
06:25 AM pink_vampire: minibnz: http://i.imgur.com/FPM0jir.png
06:25 AM minibnz: oh so shiny..
06:26 AM pink_vampire: that was cut with ton of play in the Z axis
06:26 AM minibnz: my z has become so heavy its getting a bit out of hand..
06:27 AM minibnz: i had 1.83mm of backlash in my Z when i drilled the holes. i have gotten that down to 0.15mm now much happier..
06:27 AM pink_vampire: even on very heavy manual mill with lead screws, you have a lot of play,
06:27 AM minibnz: thats another reason i have been baby'ing the machine.
06:28 AM minibnz: i am now running ballscrews on X & Y.. they run pretty nice.
06:28 AM pink_vampire: you just have to make sure that you are working with the backlash
06:28 AM minibnz: but i guess biger motors will be better :)
06:29 AM pink_vampire: minibnz: bigger motors can make you work faster (in my case up to 15000mm/min)
06:29 AM pink_vampire: but I don't need to go that fast
06:30 AM pink_vampire: for metal working you can do almost anything with 150mm/min and slower
06:34 AM pink_vampire: minibnz: ^
06:40 AM XXCoder: sp whats up pink_vampire
06:41 AM pink_vampire: I'm fine didn't did much with my machine
06:42 AM pink_vampire: XXCoder: your machine making chips?
06:42 AM XXCoder: nah still waiting on parts
06:42 AM pink_vampire: what parts?
06:42 AM XXCoder: I think it will arrive in 2117, so fairly soon
06:43 AM XXCoder: 24v to 12v and 24v to 5v dc-dc convertors
06:44 AM pink_vampire: why are you using things like that??
06:45 AM XXCoder: BOB needs 24v 12v and 5v power sources
06:45 AM nallar is now known as Ross
06:46 AM pink_vampire: but why
06:46 AM pink_vampire: 5v I know, 12? 24?
06:46 AM pink_vampire: XXCoder: ^
06:46 AM XXCoder: 24v is PSU supply voltage
06:46 AM XXCoder: BOB and all tb6600s use that also
06:47 AM XXCoder: 12v is for other stuff like limit switches so on
06:47 AM pink_vampire: your stepper get 24V???
06:47 AM XXCoder: not too sure on 5v
06:47 AM pink_vampire: the limits need to be ttl (5V)
06:47 AM pink_vampire: why are you using 12V on them?
06:47 AM XXCoder: that might be it, unless I use induction for that heh
06:48 AM XXCoder: I need 12v for tachmeter anyway
06:49 AM pink_vampire: ok.. and still not sure why you have 24?
06:49 AM * Deejay has 48 volts on the steppers
06:49 AM Deejay: moaaar power!
06:49 AM Deejay: faster stepping
06:49 AM XXCoder: its old psu and steppers, I used 24v on old tb6560
06:49 AM XXCoder: so I always used 24v
06:50 AM XXCoder: I have newer psy 400w for spindle, though not too sure what volt that uses.
06:50 AM pink_vampire: Deejay: but 24V for steppers is very low voltage, stepper use about 48V
06:50 AM XXCoder: ah yes! spindle PWM needs 10v, 12v works fine
06:50 AM Deejay: yeah, more is better :)
06:50 AM minibnz: i nuked a few tb6560 chips so i have a tube of spares ready.. at 24v if you jam a motor you can make the black separate from the legs :) and out comes the magic smoke
06:51 AM XXCoder: pink its really cheap psu and stepers lol
06:51 AM Deejay: but depends on the power stage also
06:51 AM XXCoder: fancy. any genies out of that magic smoke? ;)
06:51 AM minibnz: no i tired all five and not one had a genie in side..
06:52 AM XXCoder: aw
06:52 AM pink_vampire: I think it is better to use dedicated power supply for each voltage
06:52 AM minibnz: i even have a spare five axis board.. it got a few drives blown so i am thinking it might be good for CNC'n the lathe i got..
06:52 AM XXCoder: 12v and 5v only needs tiny amount of amp
06:53 AM XXCoder: .5 max, though my dc-dc supplies 5a lol more than enough
06:53 AM pink_vampire: take 2 lambda PSUs
06:53 AM XXCoder: so whole psu for those is overkill
06:53 AM pink_vampire: is is very cheap
06:53 AM minibnz: XXCoder if you put on some nice big filter caps after the regulators/converters you wont see any dips in the 24v rail from the motors.
06:54 AM XXCoder: thats good idea though psu itself is little underpowered anyway
06:54 AM XXCoder: I want to just cut stuff wood stuff then see if worth it upgrade more
06:55 AM minibnz: look at your regs and if they dont have any caps add some if they have some maybe add half that value cuz if you put too much capacitance on a switchmode psu they dont start properly..
06:56 AM minibnz: a little multimeter work will tell you if you have done bad..
06:57 AM pink_vampire: for about 25$ you can get 5V power supply
06:57 AM XXCoder: dc-dc is 4 bucks
06:57 AM pink_vampire: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TDK-Lambda/DSP10-5/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsZudspt76%2fSiWV%2fEQMCSlup%252bzIqWUCiTo%3d
06:59 AM pink_vampire: I'm using 2 5V psus like that http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TDK-Lambda/DRB50-5-1/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsZudspt76%2fSmQgGTUMLzAnHrmr%2f8mM0gPHnUvrGIy6Cw%3d%3d
06:59 AM XXCoder: interesting
07:02 AM pink_vampire: one is just for the machine BOBs, and the other one is for toys and fun
07:02 AM minibnz: i thought you were joking when you said they were cheap.. i have a big TDK lambda psu that is a 19inc rackmount psu that retails about 800 didnt realise the same brand is used on small din rail fixed voltage units too..
07:04 AM minibnz: they are not too bad a price..
07:05 AM pink_vampire: I think it is very good price for something in that quality.
07:05 AM XXCoder: that thing probabloy has more qualty than my entire machine heh
07:07 AM pink_vampire: as a kid I wanted to have a machine like the one you have.
07:09 AM pink_vampire: XXCoder: ^
07:09 AM XXCoder: cnc router?
07:10 AM pink_vampire: correct
07:10 AM archivist: I use a Lambda PSU as well
07:10 AM pink_vampire: I'm not alone!!! http://imgur.com/gallery/SAMDJ
07:10 AM archivist: turned up to max :)
07:11 AM XXCoder: I definitely would use better stuff if im building big router
07:19 AM XXCoder: night
08:00 AM minibnz: hmmm is it wrong to charge a full hour for 15mins of work.. it was very valuable to the company and it is 12:30am
08:01 AM minibnz: oops it was sent to me at 9pm might be a little rude its not that quick a turn around :p
08:01 AM pink_vampire: minibnz: what do you mean?
08:01 AM pink_vampire: did you test the settings that I told you?
08:01 AM minibnz: I just did some work from home for one of my jobs. we had a problem on the production line in china.
08:02 AM minibnz: oh yeah i couldnt go quite as hard as what you said but i am feeding at 90mm/min 2mm deep Z and 1mm deep in XY
08:03 AM minibnz: its happily chewing its way thru without any fuss.. i will see about these new stepper motors and then i might be able to go a bit harder..
08:03 AM minibnz: i probably could have set Z cut to 3mm instead of 2mm
08:04 AM minibnz: and about 800rom
08:04 AM minibnz: rpm
08:04 AM gregcnc: everyone has minimum charge per job
08:04 AM pink_vampire: very nice!
08:05 AM minibnz: this is true greg..
08:05 AM minibnz: Pink_Vampire its so much faster than polishing my way thru like i was.. its got one more pass and it should be the right size..
08:07 AM minibnz: then i can start on the second hole...
08:08 AM minibnz: the the hard part comes.. i gotta drill two 5mm holes at an angle to the face then install a drill guide on some bearings..
08:08 AM minibnz: that way the holes wont wander as this gets used.. its a drill jig to make a manifold for a mazda roatary..
08:09 AM minibnz: should save my mate about 2 hours and a lot of guessing on each manifold..
08:09 AM gregcnc: bearings for a drill bushing?
08:09 AM minibnz: probably dont need them if i use proper drill bushes...
08:14 AM pink_vampire: minibnz: GRATE!
08:15 AM pink_vampire: you can leave about 0.1mm of material for a final pass and you can climb is in lower feedrate to get super smooth surface finish
08:15 AM pink_vampire: minibnz: ^
08:15 AM minibnz: onto its last pass now.. in less than 40mins i will have what looks like is a rather circular hole.. its the first thing i have really done on the mill since i installed ballscrews so i hope i wont end up with any flat spots at the apexes of the axis'
08:16 AM minibnz: yeah i very much doubt the steel pipe is going to always be 38.0000mm so i figure i will take 0.1mm of the sides to make it pretty and the pipe will fit..
08:17 AM minibnz: the pipe gets bent into a U shape so its going to need a bit of tolerance, even though my mate says he will sit at the pipe shop with the jig until he finds enough that fits it :)
08:20 AM pink_vampire: if you cut conbectunal, you can cut after that climb without taking more material, it will just remove your imperfection from the conventional
08:21 AM minibnz: its looking rather pretty as it is.. with a 1mm pass the finish is really nice i might not bother taking another pass until i get a sample of pipe that wont fit :)
08:22 AM minibnz: in theory i should be able to come back to that same spot and take another pass after doing something else on the job :)
08:23 AM minibnz: as this doesnt really matter that much i might just push my luck and see if i can take just a bee's pubic hair off at a time after re-centering..
08:23 AM minibnz: could get serious and put some bearing blue on the block and really see how bad things are..
08:24 AM pink_vampire: also, if you have more stuff like that try to find annular cutter close to the diameter you need, and then just bore it after the cut,
08:24 AM minibnz: my z axis has a problem.. i have a vertical grove when my z drops down. i need to change the code to a spiral to work around that.
08:25 AM pink_vampire: why spiral ?
08:25 AM minibnz: I made a boring bar for the mill when i got a dovetail cutter it works surprisingly well, far beyond my expectations but it only goes to 30mm
08:25 AM pink_vampire: cut on side, then flip to the other side
08:26 AM pink_vampire: minibnz: https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn/Holemaking/Hole-Cutters/Annular-Cutters-Sets/Annular-Cutters?navid=12106155
08:26 AM minibnz: the sprial cut will be a continous drop downwards as it does the circles that way i wont have a mark where the Z axis drops in the same place every time, its a bit loose i think and its going out of line when it plunges in the material.. the gcode is probably not the best it could be..
08:27 AM minibnz: oh a hole saw on steroids.. :0
08:27 AM minibnz: yeah that would be easier...
08:28 AM pink_vampire: for rough cutting aluminum you can get away with even cheap one from lowes
08:30 AM pink_vampire: http://www.harborfreight.com/Silver-And-Deming-Drill-Bit-Set-8-Pc-61802.html
08:30 AM pink_vampire: or even something like that to clean most of the hole
08:30 AM pink_vampire: minibnz: ^
08:32 AM minibnz: i dropped a 8mm drill bit in 12 times around the perimeter.. that took the plug out the hole. so with your settings i only need to do four passes on the next hole.
08:32 AM minibnz: maybe less cuz that hole is much neater, swapped to a better drill bit and settings.
08:32 AM gregcnc: drilling works too
08:33 AM minibnz: that was painful under CNC with the under sized motors i had.
08:33 AM minibnz: it was like 30min per hole pecking away
08:33 AM pink_vampire: minibnz: but you learn how to cut without over load your machine
08:33 AM minibnz: yup
08:34 AM pink_vampire: I'm sure you want to skip few steps then snap an end mill
08:34 AM gregcnc: axis feed was the limit not spindle power?
08:34 AM minibnz: starting to remember all the things i've been told by my dad and teachers
08:36 AM pink_vampire: I learn all those stuff myself
08:36 AM minibnz: yeah my Z axis would skip steps if you pushed it past 20mm/min unloaded so i was drilling at <10mm/min.. now after two motor upgrades i can happily push it at 60mm/min under loads
08:37 AM pink_vampire: I'm with the original spindle motor.
08:37 AM minibnz: I keep changing things so i have to keep learning where my limits are..
08:37 AM pink_vampire: did you upgrade your spindle motor?
08:38 AM minibnz: i still have my original DC motor. i have hacked in my own spindle interface to give direct and speed to the CNC and speed to a human if i want to. i have also added a quadrature spindle encoder but havent configured it fully yet
08:39 AM gregcnc: i run a 12mm drill at 3500RPM 300mm/m and this absolute max in the Emco
08:39 AM minibnz: there is relays and switches jammed in all over the place on my mill. i added a tranformer so i had a 12vdc supply to drive the relays..
08:39 AM pink_vampire: minibnz: you don't need servo spindle
08:40 AM minibnz: gregcnc i also had 1.83mm of backlash in the z axis.. that wasnt helping any..
08:40 AM minibnz: i am thinking of trying some ridged tapping..
08:40 AM pink_vampire: put your money on a nice c5 indexer
08:41 AM minibnz: with the original motor.. will be good for a giggle at least..
08:41 AM gregcnc: once you have the encoder it's easy, but you have to work out the backlash or it won't work well.
08:41 AM minibnz: i have a 48 hole wheel on the spindle it works well
08:41 AM pink_vampire: http://www.ebay.com/itm/5C-INDEXING-SPIN-JIGS-Fixture-Drill-Milling-Lathe-Grinding-Collet-Free-Shipping-/292026637025
08:41 AM gregcnc: what is the motor rated at?
08:42 AM minibnz: i think its 400 or 500watts DC 220v
08:43 AM gregcnc: ok, china watts too, emco is 700W peak
08:43 AM minibnz: pink_vampire i already have a stepper rotary axis that i can sit veritcal or horizontal.
08:43 AM minibnz: it works really well.. my mate made it for me its just big enough to be solid as hell but not loose too much of my bed or Z axis travel
08:46 AM minibnz: i made a worm drive on it for a filament extruder, it came out really good. but it had a fundamental flaw i made it from aluminium same as the heater barrel i made. it had all the proper zones a Augur is meant to have and feeds really nice. the problem is that the aluminium stains the white plastic grey.. so i have to remake from brass..
08:46 AM Deejay: titanium
08:46 AM Deejay: ;)
08:46 AM minibnz: oh that would be nice if i could machine it..
08:46 AM gregcnc: won't brass just stain the plastic yellow?
08:47 AM archivist: or green
08:47 AM miss0r: If any of you ever thinks about having your linuxCNC installed on a virtual machine and expect to use the par port, i'm going to give you some free advice here, before you get started: Don't. that is all :)
08:47 AM minibnz: oh i dunno i was just going to try it cuz its easy to machine and conducts heat nice.. guess i am stuck chipping stainless.. better find me some carbide cutters..
08:48 AM Deejay: miss0r :D
08:49 AM minibnz: Miss0r the trouble i have had with IO Ports and VM's tells me that would be rather futile..
08:49 AM minibnz: even usb is a PITA
08:50 AM miss0r: Its some solid advice realy. I consider myself quite capable with computers. but I had to throw in the towel, as much as it pains me. Now I have the much less elegant solution: two computers under the desk here, one without any HID, and just accessed with remote desktop
08:50 AM Deejay: oh
08:51 AM minibnz: why do you need two computers?
08:51 AM Deejay: so one does the real-time-part and the other is for the screen?
08:51 AM archivist: we could have saved you some wasted effort if you asked about BMs
08:51 AM archivist: Vms
08:52 AM minibnz: im running a celeron M 2.2ghz with 1gig o ram and a SSD and it runs a 10inch lvds screen without issues..
08:52 AM miss0r: basically. but its a bit more complicated realy. I have three CNCs connected. only one running linuxcnc. But the realy hassle is this old CAMM-3 from rolandDG. it only has drivers for windows XP 32bit or older. And I needed to upgrade the PC as it was slowly dying on me.
08:52 AM pink_vampire: that is your cnc computer?
08:53 AM minibnz: thats what runs my mill.. i do my solid works on my Isomthing mac desktop.. its quite happy running windowz in a VM for solidworks and altuim
08:53 AM miss0r: So I installed a capable computer with windows 7 on it (figured i'd run the CAD software directly on the host (using MasterCAM X5)), and then have windows XP and Linux running in two different VMs.
08:54 AM miss0r: Here is where I hit the wall running:
08:54 AM minibnz: i do my dxf2gcode on the I3 mac in the work room then usb or ssh the ngc file to the mill.
08:55 AM minibnz: but i have a weird problem where the network drops every 15 mins or so.. it doesnt hurt my milling but i unplug it while its working for justin..
08:55 AM minibnz: oooo i might havee a hole...
08:55 AM * minibnz goes to look..
08:55 AM archivist: cnc control needs no OS in the way (which a VM is)
08:56 AM miss0r: both virtualbox and vmware allows for the parallel port to be directly accessed from the virtual machines. which is all good. BUT! I have a PCI par port controller. it cannot do that. well, if I ran linux on the host it could - but even in that case, I would not have a par port for each OS in the vms, as this controller has two, and I would have to assign both of them to one VM
08:56 AM miss0r: *sigh*
08:56 AM miss0r: archivist: please elaborate
08:57 AM archivist: VM will decide to swap and run the other when it feels like
08:57 AM archivist: not good for realtime
08:58 AM miss0r: I'm over that problem either way realy. I just have what looks like a realy bulky setup onder my desk now. luckily the PCs are 'slim' units discarded from the office
08:59 AM archivist: realtime is all about deterministic timing
08:59 AM * minibnz does have a hole.. but its not a nice one he want's to show anyone...
08:59 AM miss0r: All this hassle almost feels worth it now that I have gone from a P4 2gb memory to a I5 with 8gb ram :)
09:00 AM miss0r: minibnz: You have me wondering about your hole now :o
09:00 AM miss0r: that makes all the difference in the world doing CAD
09:02 AM minibnz: welll its 65mm deep.. its 37.97mm wide and 37.55mm tall... the sides are nice and shiny except for the west side wall it has a funky pattern to it the east wall is very pretty and shiny.. backlash on X axis ot gib wobble on Y?
09:02 AM minibnz: oh and its in aluminium..
09:03 AM minibnz: hope that satisfies your curiosity..
09:03 AM miss0r: somewhat :) thats a pretty deep hole. what tooling did you use?
09:03 AM Deejay: its almost round! ;)
09:04 AM miss0r: Deejay: what do you base that observation on?
09:04 AM minibnz: almost i think i know why i re-tuned my axis the other night and i think i shorted y axis.. this kinda confirms it.. so i will fix the steps and see if that helps before moving away from the center
09:05 AM miss0r: minibnz: also, what mill are you running?
09:05 AM gregcnc: backlash, tram, perpendicularity of Z(which is not the same as tram)
09:05 AM minibnz: i used a 12mm HSS cutter 4 flutes 30mm long flutes and 100mm shank on a sieg X2
09:06 AM miss0r: minibnz: that sounds something like a tram problem to me.
09:06 AM miss0r: with such a long stickout on an X2...
09:06 AM minibnz: ahh yeah i think there might be a little bit out on the parallel to the post.. but it was so small i wrote that off as Luser error.
09:06 AM minibnz: yeah i am pretty happy with the finish with the cutter hanging so far out of the collet
09:07 AM miss0r: I would look at tramming it
09:07 AM miss0r: I have to go pick up the kids. see you around
09:07 AM minibnz: oh thats in a ER20 cheapo chinese clone of a tormach holder
09:07 AM minibnz: i ahve to go to bed its 1:30am
09:07 AM miss0r: I love the time difference in here
09:07 AM miss0r: see you
09:08 AM minibnz: late
09:08 AM minibnz: rr
09:09 AM minibnz: im very surprised at how quiet the mill was with your setting Pink_vampire i thought it was going to be loud as hell but it was pretty well behaved..
09:09 AM minibnz: will have to play with that agani tomorrow after work....
09:10 AM minibnz: thanks for the help.. muchly appreciated.. not everyday a chick teaches me machining tips :)
09:14 AM minibnz: night all..
09:38 AM __rob: hello
09:38 AM __rob: looking at tormachs post processor for Autodesk 360, which doesn't seem to support any 4th axis stuff
09:38 AM __rob: well, not continious
09:41 AM __rob: it seems I have to have z as the rotation for my 4 axis -which is fine, but the actual z position is output to the post processor as a vector position (x,y)
09:41 AM __rob: depending on the rotation
09:41 AM __rob: so it considers it as the tool rotating round the workpeice, rather then the workpeice rotating
09:42 AM __rob: but, it also provides a,b,c which seem to be the dot product of a rotating co-ordinate system with the static world coordinate system
09:42 AM __rob: basically i'm wondering if the transformations are generally menat to be done by the machine
09:42 AM __rob: or in the post processor
09:43 AM gregcnc: have you searched for a better post?
09:44 AM __rob: theres no tormach one. I was planning on looking at others that have a working 4th axis implementation
09:44 AM gregcnc: surely someone has a tormach with 4th
09:44 AM __rob: but yea, just wondering with mach3, tormach, hass etc.. if its expected that the control software does the transforms
09:44 AM gregcnc: i don't think so
09:45 AM __rob: ok, thought it may be a gcode that tells the machine that everything is rotated by x
09:46 AM __rob: and then it applys that transofmration to all the gcode its parsing
09:46 AM __rob: problem with my one is that the pathpilot
09:46 AM gregcnc: doesn't tormach control explain how it works?
09:46 AM __rob: doesn't show the toolpath properly
09:46 AM __rob: just shows everything as movement on x and z
09:47 AM __rob: the "y" movment (which is now rotation on the 4th axsi) doesn't show up
09:47 AM gregcnc: that is what the machine will do
09:47 AM __rob: yea, i guess
09:47 AM gregcnc: your post should output XYZA
09:48 AM __rob: well I've ditched the y
09:48 AM gregcnc: no reason to
09:48 AM __rob: as thats basically a for this
09:48 AM __rob: with the cutter centred
09:48 AM gregcnc: so Y is always 0
09:48 AM __rob: yea
09:50 AM __rob: I extracted the angle from the a,b autodesk gave me
09:50 AM __rob: and I've output that as a
09:50 AM __rob: does work, and I will continue with it if this is correct
09:50 AM __rob: thought there maybe some gcode I should be using
09:51 AM gregcnc: you have tormachs post for pathpilot?
09:51 AM __rob: yeah
09:51 AM __rob: 4th axis stuff doesn't work, at least only works for static stuff like rotate to 25 and then just do normal 2.5d cuts
09:51 AM __rob: no wrapped toolpath business
09:52 AM gregcnc: OK so you're trying to add continuous
09:52 AM __rob: yeah
09:52 AM gregcnc: I'd see if you can find a post that already has it and see how it was done
09:53 AM __rob: only problem with my implementation so far is that it speeds up when doing the X bit of the circle
09:53 AM __rob: prob need to change the feed for each segment
09:54 AM __rob: so the cut is the same speed
09:54 AM gregcnc: yeah the whole inverse time thing
09:54 AM __rob: right, thats what that is then
09:54 AM __rob: they did have some bits for that in the tormach one, its like they've half done it
09:54 AM __rob: what they didn't have is anything to convert the vector thats given for what is basically the Z in to an actual Z
09:55 AM gregcnc: right about the time fusion is actually capcble of doing somethign fully it won't be free
09:55 AM __rob: does seem that it is doing the right thing tho
09:56 AM gregcnc: if you invest your time to make it work
09:57 AM gregcnc: as i understand it, at this point it doesn't really do continuous 4th
09:58 AM gregcnc: but some strange application of their 2D paths on the 4th
10:00 AM __rob: yea
10:00 AM __rob: they have a wrap toolpath tickboxz
10:01 AM __rob: too be fair for 4 axis its basically just swapping out Y with A
10:01 AM __rob: obviously with a bit of trig
10:01 AM __rob: but shouldn't be that hard
10:02 AM __rob: not sure if you'd ever have your cutter not at Y=0
10:02 AM __rob: mabye..
10:04 AM __rob: actually prob would with a ball nose or something
10:05 AM archivist: swapping a linear for a rotating means YOU have to know what you are doing
10:06 AM archivist: some do that to map a standard xy do wrap around a cylinder
10:06 AM archivist: do/to
10:07 AM gregcnc: i demoed Sprutcam a while back. it had strategies that kept the cutter on on axis center in Y and others that didn't
10:07 AM gregcnc: in continuous 4th mode
10:08 AM archivist: for me it is simpler to hand code the gcode
10:08 AM __rob: archivist, I have it working
10:08 AM gregcnc: all depents how complex the part is
10:08 AM __rob: its not just a swap
10:08 AM __rob: but looking at proper 5 axis on youtube
10:09 AM __rob: it seems they are not just wrapped 2d paths
10:09 AM __rob: the cutter is moving on y alot
10:09 AM gregcnc: no the wrapped path is very limiting
10:09 AM __rob: so autodesk doesn't actually do 5 axis like it says
10:09 AM archivist: for real 5 axis you want all the control
10:09 AM __rob: its more like 3+2 axis
10:10 AM gregcnc: I think it can, if you pay for a post
10:10 AM archivist: 5 axis cam costs a bunch
10:10 AM __rob: 3 axis at arbitrary positions..
10:10 AM archivist: one silly arse quoted £60
10:11 AM archivist: £60K
10:11 AM __rob: gregcnc, it cant be
10:11 AM __rob: cos the post doesn't change the toolpath
10:11 AM __rob: thats down to autodesks CAM
10:12 AM gregcnc: you're right
10:12 AM __rob: how crap
10:12 AM gregcnc: for the money......
10:12 AM __rob: well, true
10:13 AM __rob: it was cheap
10:13 AM __rob: hole in the market tho
10:13 AM __rob: with things like that pocket NC job
10:14 AM __rob: cheap true 5 axis continious cam would be great
10:14 AM gregcnc: nobody is going to develop cheap 5 axis CAM to run a 5000 machine
10:15 AM archivist: depends on definition of CAM
10:15 AM gregcnc: that's why the idea of a cheap 5 axis machine is ridicuolous
10:15 AM archivist: human can hand code for real 5 axis
10:15 AM __rob: yah well unless your happy with 3+2
10:15 AM gregcnc: this is free http://www.cnc-toolkit.com/
10:16 AM gregcnc: archivist, yes for extremely simple things, but not for organic shapes which is the only reason you want 5 axis in the first place.
10:17 AM __rob: well the maths for sure becomes much more complicated for true 5 axis
10:18 AM archivist: involute bevel is not extremely simple :)
10:18 AM __rob: lots of constrained optimizations to find the best positions
10:18 AM gregcnc: but it can be defined mathematically
10:19 AM archivist: sure which is the advantage of the gcode we have
10:19 AM gregcnc: program a yoda head for 5axis milling by hand in this millenium
10:19 AM __rob: so in summary, there aint a cheap solution to proper 5 axis ?
10:19 AM __rob: uhh 4 axis
10:19 AM __rob: if its not wrapped toolpath stuff
10:20 AM archivist: depends on what you are making
10:20 AM gregcnc: define cheap
10:20 AM __rob: Autodesk cheap
10:20 AM __rob: few k max
10:20 AM archivist: gears are trivial to hand code
10:20 AM __rob: yea, I'm talking any shape thats possible with 4 axis
10:21 AM archivist: sometimes it is just a sequence on planes, edit and add sections together
10:21 AM __rob: basically something where it will move the cutter in y
10:21 AM __rob: where x is cross travel and Z is vertical
10:22 AM __rob: most of the stuff on youtube is all rotation and x/z only
10:22 AM __rob: only a couple I can see that are obviously on expensive machines
10:22 AM __rob: where the software is likely £££
10:22 AM archivist: 15-60k for the better cam
10:22 AM gregcnc: this isn't great, but it may do what you want https://mecsoft.com/shop/product/visualmill-2017-expert/
10:24 AM __rob: https://youtu.be/HvKovZJn52Y?t=202
10:24 AM __rob: thats what I'm talking about
10:25 AM __rob: proper job
10:25 AM __rob: guess in Autodeks its possilbe with an a huge number of rotations on the A then doing a normal 3 axis cut
10:25 AM __rob: you would ge the same result, just slower
11:32 AM jensor: What is a recomended client to install for this chat group?
11:42 AM roycroft: one that allows you to connect here, jensor
11:42 AM roycroft: and it appears you have such a client already
11:47 AM jensor: but I can't post on linux chat I get response: Cannot send to channel: ##linux
11:49 AM jensor: I can see others posting but I can't post
11:49 AM jensor: So I assumed that I need to install a client program and then register to get in properly
11:50 AM jensor: I had questions on the operating system that should be discussed thwere rather than here.
11:51 AM jensor: there
11:52 AM jensor: Such as how do I search for files like I do on windows
11:52 AM cradek: jensor: https://freenode.linux.community/faq
11:52 AM cradek: "Why can't I speak ..."
11:56 AM jensor: Thank you, cradek
12:02 PM roycroft: i would recommend you stay out of ##linux :)
12:02 PM roycroft: it can be a hostile environment
01:15 PM CaptHindsight: https://madison.craigslist.org/tls/6004958625.html lotsa lathe for $2800
01:19 PM SpeedEvil: It is.
01:19 PM SpeedEvil: Pretty near $1/lb I guess
01:22 PM CaptHindsight: it might be 2x that weight
01:22 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.sharp-industries.com/product/2280c-2660c-2680c
01:26 PM SpeedEvil: My only hesitation if I found that locally would be how to get it into my shop :)
01:26 PM SpeedEvil: Though realistically, 10*30" would be _plenty_ for what I want to do.
01:28 PM JT-Shop: crap I ordered 1/2 x 1/2 6061 and needed 1/8 x 1/2 :(
01:34 PM sync_: well that is not too bad :D
01:34 PM sync_: better than the other way around
01:39 PM JT-Shop: I think I'll cut my losses and keep it, it will cost me $18 to send $48 worth of material back and it cost me $25 to get it shipped to me :(
01:40 PM roycroft: you can always resaw it and make 1/8" strips :)
01:41 PM JT-Shop: not very practical lol
02:19 PM * SpeedEvil wishes cheap EDM was a thing. Leetle bandsaw like thing with a 1 axis feed
02:37 PM renesis: lets make it!
02:37 PM renesis: just need an HV supply and a lot of caps or something, right!?
02:38 PM renesis: prob not even that hv, normal sparkgap prob way under 1mm?
02:39 PM CaptHindsight: the Russians used caps
02:39 PM CaptHindsight: more cheaper
02:40 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.amazon.com/EDM-How-Book-Benjamin-Fleming/dp/0976759608
02:40 PM chopper79: Hello everyone.... Just wanted to say that Classic Ladder is melting my brain. Just a random post
02:41 PM skunkworks: chopper79, once you get the hang of it - it is pretty easy
02:41 PM skunkworks: just takes a bit to get up to speed
02:41 PM chopper79: I am sure it will be.... It is tough to wrap my head around at the moment.
02:42 PM chopper79: Do find it awesome that so much can be done with it excluding motion
02:43 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.homebuiltedmmachines.com/purchasing-books-and-starter-kits/
02:44 PM chopper79: Minus the random crashes when I edit a rung. I hit save and CL just crashes. Then I have to restart lcnc to open the ladder again.
02:44 PM CaptHindsight: http://mikroeng.blogspot.com.br/p/blog-page.html
02:46 PM CaptHindsight: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EDMHomeBuilders/info
02:53 PM JT-Shop: chopper79: what's the problem?
02:56 PM chopper79: Trouble following the process
02:57 PM chopper79: Kinda one of those things. I look at it and then find something else to do as it is not making sense right now.
02:57 PM JT-Shop: did you know you can stick some bits in for testing and turn the on and off with the var window
02:58 PM chopper79: No I did not
02:58 PM JT-Shop: remember ladder logic is read inputs, solve ALL the logic, update outputs
02:58 PM chopper79: I am on your tutorials now
02:58 PM JT-Shop: I hope that helps :)
03:00 PM chopper79: How does the ladder begin when it comes to a tool change? I guess I mean when M6 Tx is called how does the laddder know when to take over?
03:01 PM chopper79: Do I link the tool change in hal to the ladder. Then is runs the ladder
03:01 PM chopper79: ?
03:05 PM chopper79: Actually scratch all that previous questions. Back to basics
03:06 PM chopper79: JT-Shop: When I am testing random bits to get a better understanding of how the rugs function can I test them to actual inputs and outputs to make things move?
03:06 PM chopper79: such as tool mag in and out?
03:10 PM JT-Shop: only unused %B bits
03:11 PM JT-Shop: but you can or a physical bit with a %B and toggle the %B does that makes sense?
03:15 PM * JT-Shop takes a monkey pickle break
03:17 PM JT-Shop: chopper79: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/man/man1/iocontrol.1.html
03:21 PM chopper79: I was thinking more along the lines of connecting the output of CL to a output on my 7i77. Maybe I am not understanding you either
03:36 PM JT-Shop: you can do that and test with a %B bit on a N/O contact or N/C as the case may be
03:36 PM Todd_Z: you can setp the outputs of CL using halcmd to tickle the io of CL.
03:37 PM JT-Shop: did you see my classicladder turret example?
03:37 PM chopper79: Yes I downloaded it and have not yet gone through it.
03:37 PM JT-Shop: so long as they are not connected to anything
03:37 PM JT-Shop: you should run that and watch the ladder rungs
03:38 PM Todd_Z: Doesn't take much to coment out a few hal lines.
03:38 PM JT-Shop: or unlink
03:39 PM Todd_Z: zactly
03:40 PM * JT-Shop goes back to looking for the garage floor
03:43 PM chopper79: I will check it out. Thank you JT-Shop and Todd_Z
03:58 PM Deejay: gn8
05:10 PM SpeedEvil: Because overkill is the best sort of kill.
05:10 PM SpeedEvil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I822PC9kW7Y&feature=youtu.be&t=745
05:11 PM SpeedEvil: 'So in the end, I managed to build this bench for $100 or so. It ended up at 850 pounds'
05:12 PM SpeedEvil: Probably as rigid as a ~2" slab of steel.
05:35 PM gregcnc: scraping of wood?
05:37 PM SpeedEvil: yes
05:37 PM roycroft: i'm not sure that bench is overkill, but overkill generally is wasteful and dum
05:37 PM roycroft: b
05:37 PM gregcnc: I like it, I think
05:38 PM SpeedEvil: I think my primary reason for saying overkill is that it's less functional than it would be if it was lighter, for nearly all imaginable use-cases.
05:38 PM roycroft: one of the first things i was taught in engineering school is to build to what is needed, with a safety margin
05:38 PM roycroft: and not to ever overbuild
05:38 PM roycroft: i don't know the use of that bench
05:38 PM roycroft: but sometimes having a lot of mass is useful
05:38 PM SpeedEvil: - even if you're only going to want to move it once a year, 850 pounds is not a reasonable bench weight.
05:38 PM roycroft: which is why i said i'm not sure it's overkill
05:39 PM gregcnc: could be hold down his shop floor
05:39 PM SpeedEvil: :)
05:39 PM SpeedEvil: I actually have a shed using that design.
05:39 PM roycroft: but all that aside
05:39 PM SpeedEvil: The anchor is purely weight, and without any load, it may blow away
05:39 PM roycroft: i kind of liked his scraping technique
05:39 PM SpeedEvil: yeah
05:39 PM SpeedEvil: Why I linked it
05:39 PM roycroft: other than that a level is not even remotely straight
05:40 PM roycroft: but it's close enough for wood, i suppose
05:40 PM roycroft: he could make that thing perfectly flat, but as soon as the humidity changes it will be warped
05:42 PM gregcnc: wood was free
06:23 PM Jeebiss: Can anyone suggest a sub $100 usd 4 axis controller? I just roached my tb6560 x_x
06:25 PM JT-Shop2: sounds like it's time to step up a bit and quit wasting money on tb6560 stuff
06:25 PM Jeebiss: I was considering it, but im not confident enough to not burn out another one just yet
06:25 PM Jeebiss: Im still on the sharp end of the learning curve.
06:25 PM JT-Shop2: https://mesaus.com/image/cache/catalog/7I765I25PNG-500x500-228x228.png
06:26 PM JT-Shop2: rock solid stepper setup
06:26 PM Jeebiss: Got a direct link, thats a picture
06:26 PM JT-Shop2: with lots of I/O and spindle control
06:26 PM JT-Shop2: opp
06:26 PM JT-Shop2: https://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=69&product_id=78
06:27 PM JT-Shop2: must have moved over the picture with the mouse
06:27 PM Jeebiss: Hmmm for what I am doing, thats probably overkill
06:27 PM Jeebiss: Im working on a fairly simple, not particularly percise mechanism
06:27 PM Jeebiss: More or less a fancy claw machine
06:28 PM JT-Shop2: you mean like a claw that never picks up the prize?
06:29 PM Jeebiss: Essentially
06:29 PM JT-Shop2: I hear the tb6600 is a tad better
06:30 PM Jeebiss: Those are the black units that usually are 1 axis?
06:31 PM JT-Shop2: 4 axis iirc
06:32 PM Jeebiss: i might lay the tb6560 lottery again, the first one worked out respectably for me until I murdered it on accident.
06:32 PM Jeebiss: play
06:33 PM JT-Shop2: yea can't hot plug anything
06:33 PM Jeebiss: that wasnt the issue, i accidently swapped two of the motor inputs
06:33 PM Jeebiss: two of the four wires that is
06:34 PM Jeebiss: and she let our the smoke before i noticed
06:34 PM JT-Shop2: the magic smoke
06:36 PM Jeebiss: Would you have any insight on the difference between these two options?
06:36 PM Jeebiss: https://www.amazon.com/SainSmart-TB6560-Stepper-Controller-two-phase/dp/B008BGLM0C/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1487290012&sr=8-5&keywords=TB6560
06:36 PM Jeebiss: https://www.amazon.com/SainSmart-TB6560-Stepper-Motor-Controller/dp/B0093Y8A1A/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1487290012&sr=8-6&keywords=TB6560
06:37 PM Jeebiss: I have the second one currently, but the modular aspect of the first one seems more easily repairable if I fuck up again
06:37 PM JT-Shop2: no, I use Mesa products only, they just work
06:38 PM JT-Shop2: and gecko stepper drives for the same reason
06:39 PM Jeebiss: Usually im not a corner cutter, but in this case I want to gain a little knowledge before going too crazy
06:41 PM roycroft: buying something that is likely to blow up and then buying the right product vs. buying the right product in the first place and configuring it carefully is not cutting corners
06:42 PM * roycroft is just saying
06:42 PM JT-Shop2: what roycroft said
06:43 PM roycroft: buy the good stuff and believe in yourself
06:43 PM roycroft: and ask questions
06:44 PM roycroft: if you get mesa/gecko you'll get good answers here
06:47 PM MrTrick: Hey hey. Anyone here cut foam before in a CNC router? Tried different kinds of cutters?
06:50 PM MrTrick: I've done some quick tests with a single-flute upcut spiral bit and had it turn out nicely, but I need WAY more length so am shopping for a long reach bit...
06:50 PM * JT-Shop2 wishes he knew the secret to getting someone to do what she should to loose weight, lower blood pressure and lower blood sugar...
06:50 PM JT-Shop2: should do
06:51 PM roycroft: i'm a bit overweight, and dealing with that slowly
06:51 PM roycroft: as far as blood pressure, i disconnected directv a couple weeks ago and only have ota television now
06:51 PM roycroft: with the decrease in yelling every time i turn the tv on, my blood pressure has gone down significantly already
06:51 PM JT-Shop2: my wife is obese, high blood sugar and high blood pressure and won't change
06:52 PM roycroft: i'm not sure that applies to everyone though
06:53 PM roycroft: sadly, it may take a significant event for her to change
06:53 PM JT-Shop2: I lost 70 pounds and my blood sugar when down and my blood pressure went down too
06:53 PM roycroft: it's tough
06:53 PM JT-Shop2: not easy to do but I did it
06:53 PM roycroft: i had pneumonia a few years ago
06:53 PM JT-Shop2: yea
06:53 PM roycroft: i lost a lot of weight then
06:53 PM roycroft: but i never fully recovered from it
06:53 PM roycroft: when i was up and on my feet again i put all that weight back on and then some
06:54 PM JT-Shop2: ouch
06:54 PM JT-Shop2: http://gnipsel.com/gravity/index.html
06:54 PM roycroft: my metabolism has slowed down quite a bit, and i can't exercise as much as i used to
06:54 PM JT-Shop2: that's how I lost my weight and yea I'm an old fart too lol
06:54 PM roycroft: i'm cutting back on eating, but it's hard to make that kind of adjustment
06:54 PM roycroft: and then there's the other problem
06:55 PM roycroft: i'm a homebrewer
06:55 PM JT-Shop2: have to do it slowly
06:55 PM roycroft: so i always have refreshing beverages around
06:55 PM roycroft: that contribute to beer bellies
06:55 PM MrTrick: JT-Shop2: tell her you're not happy with her behaviour or the results.... then expect to be in the doghouse for a while, then improvement will come.
06:55 PM JT-Shop2: I am too but only drink one beer a day except for special days
06:55 PM MrTrick: https://i.imgflip.com/17zqk5.jpg
06:56 PM JT-Shop2: is it a big image? I'm on limited bandwidth
06:56 PM MrTrick: JT-Shop2: meme image, Dr Phil, "You're fat. Don't sugarcoat it or you'll eat that too."
06:56 PM JT-Shop2: ah yea
06:57 PM JT-Shop2: doesn't help when the dr bitches at her because she didn't eat 3 meals today
06:57 PM MrTrick: if her behaviour is not okay, then she needs to know you have a problem with it. There *will* be backlash, esp if you've tried to be gentle about it. ...but think of it "ripping off the bandage".
06:58 PM JT-Shop2: I tend to be more of a supportive type
06:59 PM roycroft: what you need is for a doctor to be bad cop
06:59 PM roycroft: and you to be good cop
06:59 PM JT-Shop2: aye
06:59 PM roycroft: getting her to the doctor might be the problem
06:59 PM JT-Shop2: I've been cooking more healthy meals but can't help what she eats at work
07:00 PM JT-Shop2: she goes to the dr often due to the high blood sugar
07:01 PM JT-Shop2: she has it down to low 100's now except for a few days so that is much better than >200
07:01 PM JT-Shop2: blood sugar that is
07:02 PM JT-Shop2: I'm just a little bummed out about it...
07:03 PM roycroft: make lunches for her?
07:04 PM JT-Shop2: hmm that's an idea
07:04 PM roycroft: but her doctor needs to have a serious talk with her
07:04 PM roycroft: as in he/she needs to scare her a little
07:05 PM roycroft: making lunches and including supportive/love notes would probably go a long way
07:05 PM JT-Shop2: she did today an my wife said life is too short so just an excuse to not do the right thing
07:05 PM roycroft: life does not have to be too short
07:05 PM JT-Shop2: yea
07:06 PM JT-Shop2: hmm I need to pack her lunch box...
07:07 PM roycroft: stick a flower in it with her lunch
07:07 PM roycroft: you want her to be excited to open her lunch box
07:07 PM roycroft: even though it's not full of sugar
07:07 PM JT-Shop2: that's a good thought
07:07 PM JT-Shop2: or carbs
07:08 PM * roycroft heads out to the shop
07:08 PM roycroft: i hope that works out for you and her!
07:08 PM JT-Shop2: me too
07:08 PM JT-Shop2: thanks
08:11 PM jesseg: hey what can anyone tell me about non-rotary engraving?
08:12 PM jesseg: i.e. a tiny little sharp bit that curls out a thread of metal when drug across a metal surface
08:12 PM malcom2073: jesseg: It's called drag engraving
08:12 PM jesseg: it can turn when the direction is changed, or perhaps it's CNC rotated for the direction, but it's not a spinning cutter..
08:13 PM jesseg: oh cool now I have a name for it! thanks!
08:13 PM jesseg: I'm interested in drag engraving PCBs :P
08:13 PM malcom2073: That will lead you straight down the google rabbit hole :)
08:13 PM malcom2073: Erm... I'm not sure that's a thing
08:46 PM roycroft: no you're not, jesseg
08:46 PM roycroft: unless you're interested in chewing up copper and leaving ragged edges everywhere
08:52 PM jesseg: roycroft, yeah probably correct there.
08:55 PM MrTrick: loooooooooong. ^_^ http://www.multicam.com.au/large_format_slider/data1/images/graphic3.jpg
11:06 PM R2E4_bevins: Hi yall....
11:40 PM MrTrick: hah! hahahahahaha... http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1500W-5-Axis-3040-CNC-Router-Engraving-Machine-Table-220V-LCD-with-1-5KW-VFD-/172301082800?hash=item281df1e0b0:g:z3wAAOSwHoFXqxet