#linuxcnc | Logs for 2017-02-11

[00:21:48] <kyle___> hey guys
[00:22:00] <kyle___> dunno if anyone remembers me, but I'm that guy that's really salty about living in the bay area
[00:22:09] <kyle___> haven't been in here for a while because I finally moved!
[00:22:24] <kyle___> ... to another part of the bay area
[00:22:32] <kyle___> but now I have a garage so it's ok
[00:54:50] <floppydisk_ph> Where'd u move to?
[00:55:04] <floppydisk_ph> I'm in Fremont
[00:55:23] <archivist> the world has many Bay areas
[00:55:35] <floppydisk_ph> Sf bay a re a..
[00:56:25] <floppydisk_ph> Bur, you're right, many bay areas abound.
[02:37:29] <kyle___> oh hey floppydisk_ph, I'm in Union City
[02:37:37] <kyle___> we're practically neighbors!
[02:45:02] <Deejay> moin
[02:47:05] <IchGucksLive> morning from snow falling Germany 4inches tonight
[02:50:59] <IchGucksLive> kyle___: how many shakes are there in the direct hayward area
[02:51:07] <IchGucksLive> in a week
[02:55:11] <IchGucksLive> till later
[02:59:36] <kyle___> i've lived here over a year now and still haven't experienced an earthquake any stronger than what we have in missouri
[02:59:39] <kyle___> boring
[03:23:11] <_abc_> Hello. Does anyone have a schematic or connection diagram for old analog PID servo controllers? I need to make one of these work. It has differential inputs, +/-10V analog mode, and controls a 70V dcpm brushed motor.
[03:23:51] <_abc_> I have no connection schematic and the 6 inputs are confusing. I assume one is the "position" one is demand and one is speed feedback since it is marked tacho +/-
[03:24:35] <_abc_> archivist: maybe in your scanned archives something could be found?
[03:24:40] <Wolf_> have a pic of the connections?
[03:25:05] <_abc_> No pic it's just a modular connector, one long line of plug-screw contacts
[03:26:17] <_abc_> They are marked Vref+/- Tacho+/- AR+/- Enable Gnd etc. I know what the rest are, just these 6 are puzzling. Tacho- is GND inside. The unit works, if I apply small dc commands to the tacho or vref inputs the motor changes direction as it should.
[03:27:34] <sync_> Tacho is the feedback
[03:27:41] <Wolf_> vref is for pot, tach is for speed feedback from the motor, AR I dunno
[03:27:58] <_abc_> tacho would be speed fb no?
[03:28:09] <sync_> Yes.
[03:28:16] <_abc_> I assume also dcpm brushed generator type, not induction.
[03:28:39] <Wolf_> induction would be DCBL, 3 wire to motor
[03:28:49] <_abc_> I am talking about the tacho
[03:28:57] <Wolf_> oh
[03:28:57] <archivist> that is a velocity feed back
[03:29:12] <_abc_> archivist: velocity as dc? Generated by a dcpm brushed tacho?
[03:29:29] <archivist> yes
[03:30:06] <Wolf_> sounds sorta similar to http://i.imgur.com/EOp8e4l.jpg
[03:32:59] <Wolf_> tho the AMC drives I have seem to be made as a one size fits all sorta unit
[03:33:05] <_abc_> This is more similar (it is a simple pid drive with analog pid settings) ...
[03:33:05] <_abc_> ... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Copley-Controls-DC-Brushed-Servo-Amplifier-4212-22-125VDC-6A-12A-Peak/322407590727?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D41403%26meid%3D7d06bffaa0b74fd4b119f3b55dbdf9f4%26pid ...
[03:33:09] <_abc_> ... %3D100011%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D3%26sd%3D322382212117
[03:33:23] <_abc_> How would one wire such a drive? Which pins are "demand"?
[03:34:04] <_abc_> +/-10V would be output to drive the pot, I assume, right?
[03:34:07] <Wolf_> ref+
[03:34:19] <Wolf_> err
[03:35:11] <_abc_> Ref+/- would be signal input? Why don't they use standard terminology on contacts for this?!
[03:35:15] <archivist> ref+ to drive a pot,
[03:35:24] <_abc_> archivist: hm?
[03:35:33] <archivist> #+- 10 are the input
[03:35:46] <_abc_> archivist: nothing comes out of ref+/-
[03:36:42] <_abc_> archivist: which pic are you referring to please?
[03:37:03] <_abc_> +/-10 is a reference voltage output, on my drive too.
[03:37:25] <_abc_> I traced it, it outputs 10V and is protected against shorts and has diodes on it etc
[03:38:02] <_abc_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Copley-Controls-DC-Brushed-Servo-Amplifier-4212-22-125VDC-6A-12A-Peak/322407590727?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D41403%26meid%3D7d06bffaa0b74fd4b119f3b55dbdf9f4%26pid%3D1 ...
[03:38:06] <_abc_> ... 00011%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D3%26sd%3D322382212117 this is closer to what I have, still no trace of AR pins
[03:38:13] <archivist> hardly both + and - are you reading it right
[03:38:36] <_abc_> archivist: yes it's an output. See my last link, the rihtmost 1 3 pins?
[03:38:53] <_abc_> I took it apart, it had a fault that I fixed.
[03:39:00] <_abc_> I traced the circuit a bit.
[03:39:44] <_abc_> Also what's curr mon and curr ref? This thing has a switching bridge in it with shunts which sense bridge current, is that for an additional external unit?
[03:40:03] * _abc_ mumbles about idiotic makers not publishing even a simple connection diagram, perhaps on the unit's box
[03:40:07] <Wolf_> more feed back for the cnc controller
[03:40:23] <Wolf_> no manual?
[03:40:29] <_abc_> nothing
[03:40:57] <_abc_> It's old. The new ones seem to all have digital pid tuning with a little display etc. This has no digital circuits in it at all.
[03:41:39] <Wolf_> http://www.a-m-c.com/download/manual/AMC_AnalogDrives_InstallManual.pdf
[03:41:50] <Wolf_> might work, theory is the same
[03:41:51] <archivist> "old analog PID servo controllers" is hardly a search term one can use to find the manual
[03:42:00] <_abc_> Wolf_: thanks, looking
[03:42:07] <_abc_> archivist: tell me about it...
[03:42:23] <Wolf_> mostly the +-10v analog stuff
[03:42:40] <Wolf_> and tacho section
[03:43:17] <_abc_> Ok I see it. So they call demand input "reference". Nice. Sigh.
[03:43:36] <_abc_> (and in the next picture they call the same input "Command")
[03:43:47] <Wolf_> yup, great isn’t it lol
[03:43:55] <_abc_> Can't wait to turn page
[03:45:13] <_abc_> What would "AR" be ffs. I think it's not used but who knows.
[03:45:38] <Wolf_> I have 5 AMC 25A20 drives here 2 w/out encoder inputs, and no idea on the AR pin lol
[03:45:42] <_abc_> I also infer that Curr Mon and Curr Sense are outputs, reporting bridge current to the controller, if needed, right?
[03:46:10] <Wolf_> section 4.1 in that
[03:46:21] <_abc_> Ok, reading
[03:46:25] * _abc_ needs a 2nd coffee
[03:47:02] <Wolf_> like I said, I think AMC made these things to fit just about anywhere lol
[03:47:20] <_abc_> Excepting where "AR" pins are needed...
[03:47:34] <_abc_> Hmm AR could not be ARMATURE, right?
[03:48:05] <_abc_> Control output for armature current control, external? Possible?
[03:49:18] <Wolf_> no idea here, I’m still bumbling around with the drivers I have
[04:12:38] <_abc_> Ok, I got the idea now. Wolf_ thanks for the link. Had googled tons of stuff before, somehow, not this.
[04:13:21] <Wolf_> glad its helpful
[04:13:50] <_abc_> So 'Ref' are command and feedback inputs... sigh...
[04:13:59] <_abc_> (if fb is used at all)
[04:40:31] <XXCoder> volts of power
[04:41:13] <XXCoder> hey guys, my psu has +12v and -12v to make 24v power - and I need 12v power source, I wonder if I can just use +12v and ground for 12v?
[04:43:46] <Deejay> i would say yes
[04:44:16] <XXCoder> so wire to 12v and ground wire is connected to same ground as plug ground
[04:44:48] <Deejay> sounds good
[04:45:00] <XXCoder> cool
[04:50:40] <XXCoder> hey Wolf_
[04:51:11] <XXCoder> _abc_: heh that almost looks like fancy tb6600
[04:56:44] <jthornton> morning
[04:57:06] <Deejay> heya
[04:59:02] <XXCoder> hey jthornton
[04:59:12] <XXCoder> printing and millin' up a storm eh
[05:03:11] <jthornton> cool, got your router going?
[05:03:17] <XXCoder> not yet
[05:03:22] <XXCoder> I figured how to get 12v
[05:03:31] <XXCoder> pretty strightforward as it turns out
[05:03:43] <XXCoder> my psu has 12v and -12v for total of 24v
[05:03:56] <XXCoder> but all I need to do is just use 12v and ground to get 12v
[05:03:57] <jthornton> pc power supply?
[05:04:13] <XXCoder> nah come with cnc kit
[05:06:16] <malcom2073> XXCoder: Be sure that the -12v output has sufficient current
[05:06:23] <malcom2073> both need the same current capabilities for you to use them
[05:06:42] <malcom2073> Also, that will ground bias your circuit by -12v relative to your PSU ground, so if it's *not* floating, be sure the chassis is disconnected
[05:06:47] <XXCoder> I think 12v is used for spindle control 0-10v
[05:07:30] <malcom2073> Oh you're wanting to use 12, not 24 heh nm
[05:07:31] <XXCoder> 5v thankfully is much easier, it has usb connection for that.
[05:07:40] <XXCoder> most of board is 24v
[05:07:47] <XXCoder> so are tb6600s
[05:08:20] <XXCoder> so yeah from what i figure I cannot ground board to same ground as psu
[05:08:54] <XXCoder> im not too sure how to safely isolate the board
[05:09:06] <XXCoder> tb6600s are all inside their own cases
[05:10:50] <XXCoder> malcom2073: funny that BOB needs THREE power inputs. jeez. 24v 12v and 5v
[05:12:24] <malcom2073> Well, if you're using -12 for ground and +12 for power, then for 12v use -12 for ground and ground for power
[05:12:44] <malcom2073> Everything is referenced to -12, just make sure it doesn't touch anything else in your house that is grounded to actualground :-P
[05:12:52] <malcom2073> (Which btw, is a terrible idea)
[05:13:32] <XXCoder> I do understand what you mean, just sounds like backwards lol
[05:14:05] <XXCoder> though why is that better than 12v+ - 0?
[05:14:08] <malcom2073> DC voltage is all relative
[05:14:12] <XXCoder> I know
[05:14:20] <malcom2073> so really, your power supply supplies ground, 12v and 24v, it's just referenced -12 to ground :)
[05:14:29] <malcom2073> Again, terrible idea to use that heh
[05:14:34] <malcom2073> You're going to either shock yourself, or light something on fire
[05:14:50] <XXCoder> thats how my psu is setup
[05:15:01] <XXCoder> and my tb6600s can use 24v
[05:15:09] <malcom2073> Right, it'll probably work, doesn't make it a good idea though
[05:16:24] <malcom2073> What power supply do you have that actually supplies -12 at a decent current?
[05:16:39] <malcom2073> Normally you only see negative voltages as low current references
[05:16:41] <XXCoder> chinese psu
[05:18:15] <malcom2073> Makes even less sense then heh, but hey, cool!
[05:18:19] <malcom2073> Let me know how it goes :)
[05:20:03] <_abc_> 12:22 < XXCoder> _abc_: heh that almost looks like fancy tb6600 -- no, it does not! Also it's a 30Amp 90V drive, dcpm brushed, not a wimpy stepper driver from Japan
[05:20:09] <_abc_> 4 quadrant too
[05:20:28] <XXCoder> yeah case looks similiar tho lol just cheap black for tb6600
[05:20:33] <XXCoder> mal lemme link a sec
[05:21:01] <_abc_> Leadshine is the keyword you seek for TB6xxx based drivers, stepper, low cost
[05:21:19] <XXCoder> http://www.ebay.com/itm/3Axis-Nema23-Stepping-Motor-110N-cm-3-0A-4wire-board-TB6560-Power-for-CMC-mill-/281188392513
[05:21:56] <_abc_> Leadshine and clones ;) I am highly amused by the Chinese copycat cluster*ck closing circle. Having run out of Western things to copy and underbid, they underbid their own countrymen now. I am curious to see how long that will last.
[05:22:16] <XXCoder> heh mine is old enough to be just orginial clone ;)
[05:22:30] <_abc_> That is the c**est driver you can get probably.
[05:22:51] <XXCoder> crappest?
[05:22:58] <_abc_> The one you linked. Assuming it is not the pre fix pcb version which tends to kill the pc by not being properly galvanically separated
[05:23:22] <XXCoder> oh driver is retired. it was fine but was not enough
[05:25:36] <_abc_> Also, AR *is* armature feedback
[05:29:03] <malcom2073> XXCoder: Ah gotcha heh
[05:29:21] <malcom2073> My dad got one of those all-in-one boards, it only worked for about a week, but the individual tb6600's we got have been working for over a year now
[05:29:47] <XXCoder> I just need to figure how to safely wire tb6600s
[05:29:52] <XXCoder> whats you use for psu
[05:30:08] <malcom2073> A normal 24V PSU heh
[05:30:29] <XXCoder> you use just 12v?
[05:30:34] <XXCoder> err
[05:30:35] <malcom2073> No, I use 24V
[05:30:39] <XXCoder> I mean is it 24v-0?
[05:30:41] <malcom2073> yes
[05:30:46] <XXCoder> not 12- -12v like mine
[05:30:50] <malcom2073> Right
[05:31:08] <XXCoder> weird.
[05:31:23] <XXCoder> well it isnt too bad I think, just really need to protect BOB
[05:31:37] <XXCoder> as it has ground -12v below usual
[05:31:49] <XXCoder> rest is completely enclosed
[05:31:52] <malcom2073> Right, which may screw up your PC
[05:31:59] <malcom2073> Because you can't run your PC at -12v
[05:37:39] <XXCoder> since BOB uses lpt1 wouldnt BOB's -12v ground affect pc directly as is?
[05:38:06] <malcom2073> Yep
[05:38:39] <malcom2073> I mean, technically you could probably run the tb6600's off of the -12/12, and then run the bob off gnd/12
[05:38:59] <malcom2073> ahhh, no you probably can't, the tb6600's don't have optoisolation do they?
[05:39:14] <malcom2073> Tbh, I'd spend the $35 on a proper power supply.
[05:39:20] <malcom2073> You're gonna give yourself a headache heh
[05:39:30] <XXCoder> probably
[05:39:46] <XXCoder> I probably will end up upgrading steppers too :P
[05:39:56] <XXCoder> so whats good one
[05:40:03] <XXCoder> psu
[05:41:30] <malcom2073> Good? $35 won't get you good, it'll get you "it'll work" :-P
[05:41:30] <malcom2073> https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-S-360-24-Aluminum-Housing-Output/dp/B00H8VUIJC/ref=sr_1_3?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1486811519&sr=1-3&keywords=24v+360w
[05:41:44] <malcom2073> I've used uxcell before (that's what is running my 3d printer)
[05:42:21] <XXCoder> it has +v -v
[05:42:33] <malcom2073> The labels yeah, but it's 24v and 0
[05:42:44] <malcom2073> v- is ground
[05:42:47] <XXCoder> brb
[05:43:32] <archivist> which terminal has the smoke
[05:43:41] <malcom2073> Any you choose to let it out of
[05:44:28] <XXCoder> uhh
[05:44:32] * malcom2073 facepalms
[05:44:34] <malcom2073> I know where this is going
[05:44:36] <archivist> I had a stepper vibrating and resonating the bench, the PSU arse sploded, was very funny
[05:44:41] <XXCoder> I was assuming it was 12+ -12
[05:44:43] <malcom2073> Yeah
[05:44:45] <XXCoder> but maybe not
[05:44:52] <malcom2073> I assumed you *checked*
[05:44:57] <malcom2073> I'm not helping you any more today :-P
[05:45:14] <XXCoder> it has 24v on label but its not very clear on that
[05:45:21] <archivist> you can confuse him any time
[05:45:22] <XXCoder> sorry man malcom2073
[05:45:27] <malcom2073> Haha np, I've done worse
[05:45:44] <XXCoder> so problem is resolved and unresolved
[05:45:52] <XXCoder> 24v is fine, but 12v not so much
[05:46:05] <XXCoder> I guess I need something to downconvert
[05:47:45] <malcom2073> Overkill, but: https://www.amazon.com/DROK-Waterproof-Converter-Regulator-Transformer/dp/B00CGSHR2S/ref=sr_1_7?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1486811834&sr=1-7&keywords=24v%2Bto%2B12v&th=1
[05:48:04] <XXCoder> overkill sure but cheap
[05:48:21] <malcom2073> May be able to find cheaper lower power ones
[05:48:52] <XXCoder> im not too sure how much amps 0-10v pwm needs
[05:49:19] <XXCoder> https://www.amazon.com/DROK-Regulator-Converter-Waterproof-Converters/dp/B00CERPF0M/
[05:51:05] <_abc_> http://www.industrial-electronics.com/pmmt_0.html :) medium sized DCPM motors...
[05:51:19] <_abc_> XXCoder: I think that one may be large enough for what you need
[05:51:41] <XXCoder> hardly
[05:51:54] <_abc_> 36.5MW not enough? You are a hard man to please.
[05:51:59] <XXCoder> it MIGHT be enough to feebly push one axis
[05:52:15] <_abc_> XXCoder: through the Earth all the way to China
[05:52:20] <XXCoder> seriously I doubt can even leave it on driveway lol
[05:52:33] <XXCoder> it would probably break it
[05:52:33] <_abc_> XXCoder: it should sink in and disappear in a few days
[05:53:15] <_abc_> Anyway I finally found out what the f*** AR pins are for. Just don't know how to connect them, if I do not use an armature choke
[05:53:33] <_abc_> i.e. leave open or connect to servo motor outputs on drive directly.
[05:58:46] <XXCoder> way advanced past my level
[05:59:06] * XXCoder kneels to cnc lumence that is named ABC
[06:12:30] <jthornton> lol
[06:32:46] <jthornton> weird the windoze pc that would not boot up yesterday did this morning ran checkdisk then off to the races
[06:33:53] <XXCoder> how old is it?
[06:34:21] <_abc_> jthornton: it is suspect of capacitor plague, careful with it.
[06:34:37] <_abc_> jthornton: also change the clock battery and reset the bios settings.
[06:35:13] <XXCoder> pcs with dead caps can be fixed but only if worth it
[06:35:36] <jthornton> it's a fairly new mb
[06:35:53] <_abc_> It is frequently worth it because modern boards have no parallel port and are truly c**p in every respect, including ROHS bga mounted stuff
[06:35:53] <jthornton> got 0033 yesterday and nothing else
[06:36:24] <XXCoder> my linuxcnc pc is 10 years old I think
[06:37:15] <_abc_> jthornton: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-2645435/0033-error-code-geforce-gt730.html reseat the PCI/AGP video card?
[06:38:14] <_abc_> http://www.computerhope.com/beep.htm jthornton
[06:38:53] <jthornton> no beeps
[06:39:02] <_abc_> Where did you see 0033?
[06:39:15] <XXCoder> http://www.brainlesstales.com/images/2013/Nov/catalyst.jpg
[06:39:22] <jthornton> lower right corner of my monitor
[06:39:28] <_abc_> jthornton: ouch.
[06:39:38] <_abc_> jthornton: windows?
[06:39:49] <Valen> jthornton: check your windows logs, see if its saying your disk is having problems
[06:39:57] <_abc_> ^
[06:40:00] <Valen> if it ran chkdsk I'd be pointing the finger there
[06:40:10] <jthornton> where are they?
[06:41:09] <_abc_> jthornton: is it a Dell? Error 0033 seems to be a common occurrence
[06:41:21] <_abc_> There are several forum postings related to it. You made me curious.
[06:41:25] <_abc_> https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/216885/new-computer-error/
[06:41:59] <_abc_> jthornton: IS it a Dell please?
[06:42:18] <_abc_> 0033 is video related in all cases I can see, and could be a loose monitor cable
[06:42:25] <jthornton> asrock 890FX Deluxe4
[06:43:29] <_abc_> jthornton: do you have a setting in the BIOS which says "boot: ignore all errors"?
[06:44:27] <jthornton> I'd have to look
[06:47:33] <_abc_> jthornton: your board manual says for code 0033 : "33 Initializes the silent boot module. Set the window for displaying text information.
[06:47:37] <_abc_> "
[06:48:19] <_abc_> iow it switches the video subsystem into some mode. And probably fails. Could be anything from cable to monitor to reseating AGP video card to bad BGA solder problems.
[06:48:33] <jthornton> wonder what that means
[06:48:49] <XXCoder> always check simplest first
[06:48:50] <XXCoder> check cable
[06:48:53] <_abc_> It means, if reseating the video card does not help, you may have a bad board.
[06:49:10] <jthornton> cables tight, it's a pretty high end video card
[06:49:21] <_abc_> ftp://europe.asrock.com/Manual/890FX%20Deluxe4.pdf jthornton board manual, search for '33' inside it
[06:50:05] <_abc_> DrDebug is a nice thing to have
[06:50:16] <_abc_> jthornton: you run linuxcnc on that?
[06:50:30] <XXCoder> interesting https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB18TxNIXXXXXcfXpXXq6xXFXXXW/M18-Retroreflective-type-PNP-NO-NC-DC-4-wires-photoelectric-switch-Infrared-photocell-sensor-with-mirror.jpg
[06:50:51] <_abc_> Note the LED 2 digit 7 seg display on board for error codes!
[06:51:03] <_abc_> http://www.asrock.com/MB/AMD/890FX%20Deluxe4/index.asp#Manual oem page
[06:54:24] <jthornton> it's working so I don't have any error codes to look at
[06:54:33] <XXCoder> check logs
[06:54:34] <_abc_> http://forum.asrock.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=2049&title=x99x-error-code-33-will-not-post looks like it is not unknown in the asrock world. Anyway jthornton start with external things like the monitor cable and progress as you go. It might happen again.
[06:54:51] <_abc_> XXCoder: if windows did not boot in that state there will be nothing in any logs
[06:55:05] <XXCoder> yeah but there may be indictive errors anyway
[06:55:15] <_abc_> Very unlikely
[06:55:17] <jthornton> where are the logs
[06:55:43] <XXCoder> right click my computer icon
[06:55:47] <XXCoder> click manage
[06:55:53] <XXCoder> in list there should be logs
[06:56:04] <XXCoder> filter for warnings and errors
[06:56:17] <jthornton> I think I deleted the My Computer icon a long time ago
[06:56:33] <XXCoder> do same on start menu
[06:56:40] <XXCoder> I dont know post-7
[06:56:41] <_abc_> It will get back jthornton you can restore it
[06:56:56] <XXCoder> *my computer in start meny
[06:57:51] <_abc_> https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/446671/asrock-6b38-error/ looks like 0033 is a major asrock "fun" thing
[06:59:21] <jthornton> system information says my keyboard is missing drivers lol
[07:00:18] <_abc_> jthornton: yes sounds about right. Bad usb controller.
[07:00:36] <Valen> what windows is it?
[07:00:40] <jthornton> 7
[07:01:06] <Valen> Click Start, point to Programs, point to Administrative Tools, and then click Event Viewer.
[07:01:20] <jthornton> oh that was just a complaint about nothing plugged into the ps2 port lol
[07:01:41] <XXCoder> val mine was far more direct heh
[07:01:44] <Valen> look in system log for anything with yellow or red marks next to it
[07:02:17] <Valen> he said he didn't have the "my computer" icon any more
[07:02:48] <XXCoder> yeah though same thing can be done with "my computer" in start menu, and he clearly already reading event viewer :)
[07:02:59] <Valen> though I'll give him credit, he is probably more able to right click than mose of my users
[07:03:07] <Valen> sounded like he was in hardware manager to me
[07:03:17] <jthornton> I don't have Administrative Tools
[07:03:49] <Valen> press windows + R
[07:03:58] <Valen> put eventvwr into the run box
[07:03:59] <XXCoder> jthornton: the same window should also have event viewer tjhats the logs
[07:04:14] <Valen> you are after http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_1UkMMBGA8eQ/Sl34Cvfk7CI/AAAAAAAAAgU/4aTV0Byjjws/s400/eventvwr.JPG
[07:04:38] <jthornton> that worked
[07:05:24] <jthornton> says my hard drive has a bad block
[07:05:43] <Valen> does it say it a bunch of times or just the once?
[07:06:35] <jthornton> about 8 times
[07:06:50] <Valen> that's perhaps not great
[07:07:54] <jthornton> just noticed that the 0033 shows up everytime just before the bios shows up
[07:08:31] <Valen> could be scrolling through the whats it called port 80 codes on the screen
[07:08:35] <Valen> I've seen that happen before
[07:08:42] <Valen> and a dying hdd can cause them not to post
[07:09:53] <Valen> does this thing dual boot?
[07:09:58] <Valen> like run linux as well?
[07:10:05] <jthornton> no
[07:10:59] <jthornton> wonder where they hid the check disk thing
[07:11:24] <XXCoder> its a dos command
[07:11:34] <jthornton> chkdisk?
[07:11:42] <Valen> nah don't run that
[07:11:51] <XXCoder> yeah its not very good
[07:11:57] <XXCoder> havent been since windows 95
[07:12:08] <jdh> scandisk /f
[07:12:11] <Valen> I mean it will do the thing you want but it's not the thing you want to do
[07:12:22] <Valen> yeah try this
[07:12:29] <Valen> fire up a command prompt as administrator
[07:12:45] <Valen> or try without admin
[07:13:09] <Valen> (so windows + r, then cmd )
[07:13:21] <Valen> then
[07:13:28] <Valen> wmic [enter]
[07:13:37] <Valen> diskdrive get status [enter]
[07:14:03] <jthornton> OK
[07:14:20] <Valen> you want to see what the reallocated sector count, and pending sector count is. I've never done it this way btw, so it'll be cool if this works lol
[07:16:23] <jdh> to what end
[07:17:25] <Valen> if he has not many realocated sectors then the drive is probably still ok he just got unlucky
[07:17:26] <jdh> buy a new disk, clone it
[07:17:36] <Valen> if it's full of them then yes, it needs replacement
[07:18:08] <Valen> depends on how much $ he has to spend on it. Also if it has bad sectors cloning it is just cloning any problems on it too
[07:18:29] <jdh> if it wasn't caught by the disk and remapped without loss, it is not worth screwing with
[07:19:52] <Valen> if you get a bad read you get a bad read, the disk can't create new data to fill it, the OS will see the bad sector
[07:20:26] <Valen> on a multi TB disk, that is pretty much expected these days
[07:21:08] <jdh> heh, you expect data loss?
[07:21:23] <Valen> no I use ZFS in raidZ
[07:21:26] <malcom2073> ZFS ftw
[07:21:38] <XXCoder> I dont know if hd errors is root cause of his pc not booting sometimes'
[07:24:25] <jdh> HD with visible errors suck.
[07:25:36] <XXCoder> I wonder if this https://www.amazon.com/DROK-Regulator-Converter-Waterproof-Converters/dp/B00CERPF0M/
[07:25:39] <XXCoder> would be enough'
[07:27:21] <_abc_> Why waterproof?
[07:27:34] <_abc_> Waterproof typically incurs cooling problems.
[07:27:55] <XXCoder> just one I found, wasnt looking for waterproof
[07:28:16] <malcom2073> It won't run very hot with the few milliamps he's using heh
[07:28:17] <_abc_> You need to settle on an IP protection level, probably for dustproof.
[07:28:34] <XXCoder> malcom2073: PWM output is just few mA?
[07:28:46] <_abc_> Oh for low power?
[07:28:46] <XXCoder> I was stuck wondering how much exactly it needed
[07:29:05] <malcom2073> XXCoder: Depends on the impedance of your spindle speed input, but I expect it'd be pretty high, so low current
[07:29:07] <XXCoder> err I mean 0-10v signal
[07:29:19] <XXCoder> spindle comes with its own PWM board
[07:29:30] <XXCoder> and bigass psu
[07:29:41] <malcom2073> Then why do you need 0-10v output?
[07:30:03] <XXCoder> it tells pwm controller board what speed to set it at?
[07:30:12] <malcom2073> So then like I said, it depends on the impedance of your spindle speed input
[07:30:20] <XXCoder> might be misunderstanding what its supposed to
[07:32:15] <XXCoder> ok a second
[07:33:06] <XXCoder> the BOB
[07:33:08] <XXCoder> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-Quality-Upgraded-5-Axis-CNC-Breakout-Board-for-Stepper-Motor-Driver-Mach3-USB-Cable/32738646022.html
[07:34:33] <XXCoder> spindle stuff http://www.ebay.com/itm/301641324807
[07:35:01] <XXCoder> as you can see the pwm board has power input, spindle output and data input
[07:36:45] <XXCoder> hmm http://www.cnczone.com/forums/spindles-vfd/239838-spindle-control-chinese-5-axis-bob.html
[07:39:08] <archivist> I use a tiny dc to dc to drive the bob http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2015/2015_10_14_cnc_bob/IMG_2013.JPG it is the red thing upper left
[07:39:23] <IchGucksLive> hi
[07:39:26] <XXCoder> hey
[07:40:02] <XXCoder> archivist: so 12v is to drive BOB itself? if so, whats 24v in for?
[07:41:01] <archivist> there are separate switch and pwm supply inputs
[07:41:08] <archivist> limit switch
[07:41:21] <IchGucksLive> XXCoder: the bob makes 12V out of the 24
[07:41:43] <archivist> it has a regulator on board
[07:41:47] <IchGucksLive> XXCoder: most comen use is PU as main and control source
[07:42:15] <XXCoder> I definitely need to read those files again, figure it out
[07:42:29] <IchGucksLive> XXCoder: is it on vfd to bob
[07:42:43] <XXCoder> nah see my previous links
[07:42:49] <IchGucksLive> DONT USE the 12V from the BOB
[07:42:50] <XXCoder> first is BOB and second is spindle kit
[07:43:07] <IchGucksLive> it needs to be separated
[07:43:09] <IchGucksLive> only GBD
[07:43:13] <IchGucksLive> GND
[07:44:37] <IchGucksLive> XXCoder: why at all are you going for 24V
[07:44:44] <XXCoder> psu is 24v
[07:45:04] <IchGucksLive> XXCoder: i read -12 +12 GND
[07:45:16] <XXCoder> yeah that was my mistake
[07:45:34] <XXCoder> I assumed +v is 12v and -v was -12v but its not
[07:45:42] <XXCoder> +v is 24v and -v is ground
[07:45:46] <IchGucksLive> you are not going for 24V to the tb6600
[07:46:17] <XXCoder> your design shows 36v going to tb6600s
[07:46:46] <IchGucksLive> i mean on the Control inputs
[07:46:57] <IchGucksLive> with resistors
[07:47:23] <XXCoder> they all are connected directly to BOB so I guess if BOB is 12v, then tb6600s control input is also 12v?
[07:47:50] <IchGucksLive> NO its 5V
[07:47:58] <IchGucksLive> All ogic is 5V
[07:48:02] <IchGucksLive> PC power
[07:48:07] <XXCoder> ahh
[07:48:16] <IchGucksLive> only the inputs HOST is on 12V
[07:48:31] <XXCoder> do I have to also supply 5v to BOB? o is that just from pc
[07:48:48] <IchGucksLive> there is PC PC GND
[07:48:58] <IchGucksLive> this needs to be 5V circit
[07:49:17] <IchGucksLive> i did gave you a schematic
[07:49:30] <XXCoder> yeah
[07:49:41] <XXCoder> im not great on electrics so still figuring that
[07:49:53] <XXCoder> lm2566a
[07:50:02] <XXCoder> 2 of em, one for 12v and one for 5v
[07:50:02] <IchGucksLive> IT will explode like a Firer cracker
[07:50:14] <IchGucksLive> so keep your nose out if you firer it up
[07:50:49] <IchGucksLive> the LM2566 are not isolated
[07:50:58] <IchGucksLive> you need to take care
[07:51:15] <IchGucksLive> GLIMMER and Screw supports
[07:51:22] <XXCoder> how much A does those 2 lm2566s need?
[07:51:41] <XXCoder> because I can grab one thats 24v to 12v and it has max of 3a
[07:51:44] <IchGucksLive> they provide 2A max you need 0.5
[07:51:52] <XXCoder> so 3a is overkill
[07:52:14] <IchGucksLive> they grep as mutch as the output pulls on that numbers
[07:52:49] <IchGucksLive> XXCoder: WHY not REAL Suplyes 12V and 5V
[07:52:57] <IchGucksLive> its 10USD
[07:53:06] <IchGucksLive> 0.63A 5V
[07:53:08] <XXCoder> 12v psu?
[07:53:13] <IchGucksLive> 1.2A 12V
[07:53:21] <IchGucksLive> on EL Rail
[07:53:28] <IchGucksLive> HUTSCHIENE
[07:53:53] <XXCoder> currently tracking all 5v and 12v uses
[07:55:06] <XXCoder> one problem is your machines is plama, it has no wiring for spindle and im trying to figure that out too
[07:55:14] <IchGucksLive> WHY im Asking
[07:55:15] <XXCoder> bah I hate how I forget so easily.
[07:55:24] <IchGucksLive> it is BEST to keep all PSU separaded
[07:55:27] <IchGucksLive> even on GRND
[07:55:28] <XXCoder> spindle has its own 400w psu
[07:55:49] <IchGucksLive> The Spindel can blow up your hole system on GND issue
[07:55:58] <XXCoder> 480w actually I think which is more than enough for 400w spindle.
[07:56:22] <XXCoder> yeah im definitely not using spindle psu for anything but spindle.
[07:56:50] <IchGucksLive> DIN RAIL = Hutschiene
[07:57:23] <XXCoder> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_rail ?
[07:57:52] <IchGucksLive> https://www.reichelt.de/Schaltnetzteile-fuer-Hut-Schiene/2/index.html?ACTION=2&LA=2&GROUPID=4961
[07:58:38] <IchGucksLive> i use this on real mashines
[07:58:49] <XXCoder> reading that on wiki on exactly what it is fopr
[07:59:08] <XXCoder> interesting
[07:59:12] <IchGucksLive> XXCoder: RIGHT Botton http://heimwerkermarkt-tretter.de/schrank.jpg
[07:59:18] <XXCoder> my machine simply isnt large enough
[07:59:30] <XXCoder> though still good idea
[07:59:41] <XXCoder> man that is neat wiring system!
[07:59:59] <IchGucksLive> it ads yust Money
[08:00:09] <IchGucksLive> to things like clamps
[08:00:15] <XXCoder> someone disrecommanded that method of powering 3 tb6600s by "jumping wires"
[08:00:16] <IchGucksLive> LEFT Down
[08:00:23] <XXCoder> so mine is all directly connected to psu
[08:00:42] <XXCoder> so its neat method to control wiring
[08:01:01] <IchGucksLive> XXCoder: no juming wirers on PSU only 5V
[08:01:13] <XXCoder> no I used wrong word
[08:01:14] <XXCoder> hmm
[08:01:27] <IchGucksLive> Daisy chain
[08:01:30] <XXCoder> basically just conn yes
[08:01:38] <XXCoder> that was what I was thinking
[08:02:00] <XXCoder> what is orange backing made from?
[08:02:00] <IchGucksLive> the BOB is a Bidirectional
[08:02:12] <IchGucksLive> so its totaly different then ypours
[08:02:24] <XXCoder> MESA?
[08:02:32] <IchGucksLive> yes
[08:02:38] <XXCoder> mine is chinese special BOB heh
[08:02:45] <IchGucksLive> its a 600x600x280 case
[08:03:12] <XXCoder> so 12v and 5v only need .5A correct?
[08:03:22] <IchGucksLive> yes
[08:03:39] <IchGucksLive> 12V 1.24A if FAN and Reais
[08:03:50] <XXCoder> I'm considering that 3A one
[08:03:55] <XXCoder> so plenty of power anyway
[08:04:04] <XXCoder> 8 bucks
[08:04:09] <IchGucksLive> as you can do only 8 Railas
[08:04:29] <XXCoder> so 12v and 5v is solved again thanks man
[08:04:37] <XXCoder> but spindle well I have big issue
[08:04:46] <IchGucksLive> WHy
[08:04:55] <XXCoder> how to wire it up. BOB has 0-10v and PWM, spindle has its own PWM board
[08:05:19] <XXCoder> the psu for it is quite large heh
[08:05:35] <IchGucksLive> DIs connect the pwm on Spindle board
[08:05:42] <IchGucksLive> use pwm from BOB
[08:05:49] <IchGucksLive> and short the GND
[08:05:51] <XXCoder> just directly connect?
[08:05:57] <IchGucksLive> YES
[08:06:07] <XXCoder> why did mine come with pwm?
[08:06:15] <IchGucksLive> it is to be connect bevor the OPTO
[08:06:26] <XXCoder> I guess its for if I still had tb6560 which does not have pwm
[08:06:27] <IchGucksLive> PWM is easyer
[08:06:34] <IchGucksLive> it is only 50cent
[08:06:45] <IchGucksLive> the 0-10V is 84cent
[08:07:04] <XXCoder> my BOB has both outputs for 0-10v and pwm, that confused me
[08:07:15] <IchGucksLive> i guess there is no OPTO on the spindel board
[08:07:24] <IchGucksLive> as a Transistor is 2Cent
[08:07:58] <IchGucksLive> XXCoder: is it one of the 60USD spindles 24V
[08:07:59] <XXCoder> my pwm board onbly has power input, output to spindle, 0-10v input and manual control knob input
[08:08:16] <XXCoder> lemme get link http://www.ebay.com/itm/301641324807
[08:08:57] <XXCoder> oh input is PWM alone
[08:09:10] <IchGucksLive> so there are 2 Clamps for PWM thats all you need
[08:09:11] <XXCoder> https://image.pushauction.com/0/0/30bd7d25-7de4-4516-a93c-aa19e833ccf4/f5c40380-cfa4-cef5-79ea-fa2243d08729.jpg
[08:09:31] <XXCoder> so just connect pwm output from BOB to that board PWM input
[08:09:32] <XXCoder> done
[08:09:37] <IchGucksLive> male agure the Manual speed is off
[08:09:46] <XXCoder> and remove the knob yeah
[08:09:58] <Jymmm> PWM generator https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2CH-Independent-PWM-Generator-Duty-Cycle-Pulse-Frequency-Module-LED-Digital-Tube/32742005224.html
[08:10:06] <IchGucksLive> XXCoder: PWM Connector is 2 pin
[08:10:12] <IchGucksLive> PWM and GND
[08:10:21] <XXCoder> so its not a complex wiring
[08:10:24] <XXCoder> good
[08:10:59] <XXCoder> I recall that 12 gauge is fine for spindle 400w correct?
[08:11:18] <XXCoder> any concerns of sheilding it from stepper wires?
[08:11:43] <IchGucksLive> 1.5mm²
[08:11:47] <IchGucksLive> let me see
[08:12:08] <IchGucksLive> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Wire_Gauge
[08:12:51] <IchGucksLive> i woudt requirer 15
[08:13:06] <XXCoder> 12 is definitely thicker so no issues then
[08:13:07] <IchGucksLive> at 400W 24V
[08:13:25] <IchGucksLive> thats way to thick
[08:13:41] <XXCoder> oversize causes issues?
[08:13:50] <IchGucksLive> EM fields
[08:14:11] <Jymmm> what?!
[08:14:14] <IchGucksLive> not your issue
[08:14:46] <IchGucksLive> XXCoder: it may not fit the Clamp
[08:15:00] <XXCoder> oh its orginial stepper wires. it fit heh
[08:15:23] <XXCoder> it was waaay overkill for steppers. im reusing it from Z, it now uses nice 18 gauge wires for steppers
[08:15:30] <IchGucksLive> What Stepper uses that thick wire
[08:15:47] <XXCoder> definitely not my steppers now. it was all I had
[08:15:58] <XXCoder> so when I rewired for tb6600 I removed em
[08:16:04] <IchGucksLive> they have around 19
[08:17:20] <XXCoder> I'm considering soldering all connections between stepper and wires, as well as spindle wires
[08:17:21] <IchGucksLive> ok yopu are quite a good performer
[08:17:25] <XXCoder> so it can be sealed in
[08:17:46] <IchGucksLive> Never solderd one of my >400mashines
[08:17:56] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Just don't crimp AND solder any connections, that's a bad thing
[08:18:03] <IchGucksLive> only clamp and Hotshrink
[08:18:51] <XXCoder> I do have bunch of crimp connectors
[08:19:05] <IchGucksLive> Jymmm: wirer endcaps
[08:19:11] <IchGucksLive> 500pce 50cent
[08:19:14] <XXCoder> so connect, then heat strunk seal it?
[08:19:38] <XXCoder> I want my machine to be in least kinda liquid resistant for future, right now it is rather... exposed. lol
[08:19:42] <Jymmm> IchGucksLive: Eh, I don't think I would ever use wire nuts on anything that has motion
[08:20:15] <IchGucksLive> i did this on all
[08:20:26] <XXCoder> thanks IchGucksLive you cleared up a LOT of it. I took some notes since my memory sucjs
[08:20:29] <XXCoder> sucks
[08:20:44] <Jymmm> IchGucksLive: Crimp yes, wire nut, eh
[08:20:47] <IchGucksLive> get a 19 endcap put the wire in from left and right crimp and shrink
[08:21:25] <XXCoder> what about 400w spindle wires?
[08:21:34] <IchGucksLive> Jymmm: https://www.reichelt.de/Aderendhuelsen/2/index.html?ACTION=2&LA=3&GROUPID=7478
[08:21:35] <XXCoder> I want to safely connect wires together
[08:23:47] <IchGucksLive> XXCoder: do as you like
[08:23:58] <IchGucksLive> on your mashine it will work eighter
[08:24:39] <IchGucksLive> >48V and > 2400mm/min it will be a Q
[08:25:09] <IchGucksLive> as well as < 1500 ns
[08:25:42] <IchGucksLive> at 5000,8000,20000,20000 with 100k BASE NP
[08:25:51] <IchGucksLive> nothing will be a issue
[08:27:38] <IchGucksLive> Jymmm: what is whirer Nut cand find it
[08:27:49] <IchGucksLive> wire
[08:30:41] <XXCoder> maybe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twist-on_wire_connector ?
[08:31:16] <XXCoder> I probably wouldnt use those either for cnc machine heh
[08:32:03] <Jymmm> IchGucksLive: XXCoder's link
[08:32:38] <Jymmm> IchGucksLive: *I* wouldn't use those for anything that could vibrate loose.
[08:33:56] <IchGucksLive> AGREE to that
[08:34:05] <malcom2073> Especially not on something like steppers, where an iffy connection can fry electronics
[08:36:42] <XXCoder> know whats worse than those wire nuts?
[08:36:44] <XXCoder> nothing. heh
[08:36:57] <XXCoder> I found uncovered connections in my room light
[08:37:10] <XXCoder> box was nicely marked with electric burns
[08:37:22] <XXCoder> its protected by wire nuts now
[08:37:52] <IchGucksLive> on US EL you can survive
[08:38:03] <IchGucksLive> in EU you are angel dust
[08:38:09] <XXCoder> 200v fun
[08:38:27] <XXCoder> dang 6 am! going to bed
[08:38:35] <XXCoder> IchGucksLive: much thanks for help! sure cleared stuff up!
[08:39:44] <XXCoder> IchGucksLive: before I go it was ceiling light, it would have burnt down the house.
[08:39:57] <XXCoder> just so glad I caught it before it did. stupid cheapass rental repairs.
[08:40:01] <XXCoder> night all
[08:42:16] <_abc_> Whoa reading news. Sydney daytime high 47 degC. Wow.
[08:43:23] <_abc_> After 6 hours of googling on 2 days I was unable to find ONE servo amp, dc brushed, which explains the AR (aramature) + - pins mine has.
[08:43:33] <_abc_> Tant pis, I will proceed by trial, error, and cussing.
[08:44:16] <malcom2073> Permanent magnet brushed servos are much cooler :-P
[08:44:31] <_abc_> dcpm is what I said, ok?
[08:44:52] <_abc_> That is a trick point, because those HAVE NO ARMATURE WINDINGS.
[08:45:18] <malcom2073> Sounds like a weird beast if it has armature pins with no armature windings :-P
[08:45:45] <malcom2073> Oh your servo amp has armature pins?
[08:45:47] <IchGucksLive> i thik in 2018 the Servos will be as cheep as steppers 12Nm
[08:46:35] <_abc_> necKro23: indeed. And I have no docs, it is not my amp, and I need to know where the fraking pins are to be connected.
[08:46:45] <malcom2073> To your armature windings of course ;)
[08:46:53] <_abc_> If at all. I assume one of the several unmarked jumpers inside disables them. Famous last words.
[08:47:01] <_abc_> malcom2073: the ones on the permanent magnet? >;)
[08:47:04] <malcom2073> Hehe yep
[08:47:08] <malcom2073> Yeah, sounds like mismatched hardware
[08:47:11] <malcom2073> always fun to figure out
[08:47:15] * _abc_ slaps malcom2073 around a bit with thick servo cables
[08:47:57] <_abc_> There are basically 2 options: leave open or short together. The 3rd option is to feed them some fake dc derived with a pot from the +/-10V outputs.
[08:48:04] <_abc_> dc outputs, i.e. supply.
[08:48:21] <_abc_> I will have to try all 3 ways in turn. Sigh.
[08:49:52] <IchGucksLive> i have spend in 2010 so mutch money on a servo test and did not get 1REV out of it
[08:50:00] <IchGucksLive> 2speps and then ERROR
[08:50:08] <IchGucksLive> for around 2000USD
[08:50:34] <IchGucksLive> then i got back to Nema23 at 40USD
[08:50:46] <IchGucksLive> no try since
[08:51:01] <IchGucksLive> im BURNED at this
[08:51:24] <IchGucksLive> infact i quited Jobs on Servo request
[08:53:02] <_abc_> Servos are fine and are the only option for things larger than a Chinese mill
[08:53:07] <_abc_> *desktop mill
[08:53:49] <IchGucksLive> i go 7m with 12Nm steppers
[08:54:04] <IchGucksLive> thats 21feet
[08:54:09] <_abc_> 47 degC in a humid place like Sydney is a killer. Been in places where you had 33-35 degC and 90-100% RH and it was like clammy sauna death.
[08:54:34] <_abc_> 7m is not relevant. XYZ forced in the 10s of tons is.
[08:54:36] <_abc_> brb
[08:56:14] <IchGucksLive> at 100:1 gear force is 848Nm max to the Gear
[08:56:58] <IchGucksLive> _abc_: but a gree on you its a good thing to know where the mashie is
[08:57:17] <IchGucksLive> if i go past 70age i will try again
[08:57:37] <IchGucksLive> last mashine will be a servo 300x300x51mm
[09:04:47] <IchGucksLive> im off
[09:19:25] <MacPhone> morning
[09:21:38] <Jymmm> MacPhone: Did you have that sony security cam?
[09:40:24] <MacPhone> not sony
[09:41:01] <MacPhone> i have a few axis and some other i think american dynamics
[09:42:07] <MacPhone> Jymmm: you looking at setting up home security?
[09:43:19] <Jymmm> Somebody has a sony camera, I just always forget who =)
[09:44:34] <MacPhone> sony always seems to sneak proprietary stuff into everything they do.
[09:44:50] <MacPhone> not sure if the cams are any diff
[09:44:51] <Jymmm> heh
[09:45:47] <MacPhone> what are you up to today?
[10:01:41] <MacPhone> interesting eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/172244066600
[10:02:57] <MacPhone> oh its just height
[11:31:58] <Tecan> was wondering how to check what paralell ports exist
[11:32:25] <Tecan> hwinfo ?
[11:33:00] <Tecan> having some issues porting old configs to the new debian distro
[11:49:14] <os1r1s> Time to rebuild the flood containment .... https://www.dropbox.com/s/9hqr4fouw2lmfb3/pm25mv_lift.jpg?dl=0
[12:07:49] <MacPhone> looks like work
[12:17:23] <chopper79> Howdy all
[12:20:12] <chopper79> I am having some trouble today while trying to get my spindle running. I keep arguing with myself on how the FWD and REV pins need to be connected. Not going to take any chances and a VFD that cost as much as this one does. I posted on my build thread also in the forums. Thought I would check here as well and then document the solution on the build thread also. https://forum.linuxcnc.org/30-cnc-machines/32122-1982-matsuura-mc-500v-retrofit?start=40#878
[12:20:56] <chopper79> Anybody feel like helping me on making my mind up on how to close those contacts?
[12:22:51] <IchGucksLive> hi from a heavy rainy germany
[12:22:59] <chopper79> I keep thinking I need to ground my signal ground and then apply a positive voltage to the pin on the VFD to close the contact. This seems correct to me, but then again I am having doubts so I am arguing with myself on this.
[12:24:10] <IchGucksLive> chopper do you need Both FWD and reverse
[12:24:15] <chopper79> yes
[12:24:22] <archivist> er wot, it just shows a contact between two pins use both
[12:24:27] <IchGucksLive> for Milling treads or somthing
[12:24:46] <IchGucksLive> as yiou got alot of I/O use toole or nist2
[12:25:34] <IchGucksLive> chopper79: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/
[12:25:52] <IchGucksLive> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/toggle2nist.9.html
[12:26:55] <IchGucksLive> chopper79: thats all you need
[12:27:18] <IchGucksLive> go for logic FWD is default
[12:27:48] <IchGucksLive> If is-on is false the on true and off is false.
[12:28:08] <IchGucksLive> RWS connected to is-on
[12:28:16] <chopper79> How does that close the contacts on my vfd? Maybe I am missing something
[12:28:36] <IchGucksLive> you need a Relay
[12:29:03] <IchGucksLive> depending on VFD COM to GND
[12:29:27] <IchGucksLive> then you got NO NC
[12:29:54] <IchGucksLive> NC is FWD
[12:30:07] <IchGucksLive> NO is RWS
[12:30:10] <IchGucksLive> RVS
[12:30:22] <chopper79> I will look into this a bit more
[12:30:40] <IchGucksLive> with this you only need one IO pin
[12:30:44] <IchGucksLive> BUT
[12:31:14] <IchGucksLive> AS most VFD only Spinn on PINCHANGE not constant
[12:31:20] <IchGucksLive> you are sucked
[12:31:58] <IchGucksLive> the other way is use just 2 IO
[12:32:06] <IchGucksLive> FWD RVS
[12:32:20] <chopper79> Prefer to use (2) i/o
[12:32:24] <IchGucksLive> the logic of LCNC wont let both on
[12:32:36] <IchGucksLive> so 2 Relays
[12:32:53] <IchGucksLive> its easy thinking
[12:33:17] <IchGucksLive> chopper79: 7i77 ypou got as i remember
[12:34:14] <IchGucksLive> dont forget to read about Enable or Run
[12:34:52] <chopper79> That was my plan. Closing the contact to ground or + voltage was my question. I am gonna take my signal ground and then close the contact on the pin with ground. After looking at the diagram so more it makes more sense to send groudn to those pins. Could be wrong but I will head that direction for now.
[12:35:49] <IchGucksLive> keep the Logic of the VFD and the Mashine seperated
[12:35:59] <IchGucksLive> by using 5USD relays
[12:36:13] <IchGucksLive> i guess you use 24V
[12:36:20] <IchGucksLive> on the MESA
[12:36:22] <chopper79> 24v
[12:37:00] <IchGucksLive> is it a standard Hyanyang or Clone VFD
[12:37:07] <chopper79> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/30-cnc-machines/32122-1982-matsuura-mc-500v-retrofit?start=40#87827
[12:39:14] <IchGucksLive> cool thing
[12:39:21] <IchGucksLive> is the gearhead atached
[12:40:06] <chopper79> no gear head
[12:40:12] <IchGucksLive> so FWD and REV i woudt do only one Relay COM to pin 15
[12:41:01] <IchGucksLive> the friver needs +-10V
[12:41:15] <IchGucksLive> spindelinterface provides this
[12:42:05] <IchGucksLive> for Mc_ga the spindel orintation signal woudt be perfect
[12:43:47] <IchGucksLive> chopper79: im Wrong sorry as there is no Enable or RUN
[12:44:12] <IchGucksLive> you need to read on the READY pin
[12:44:35] <IchGucksLive> seams to me there is a safty chain inside
[12:44:45] <chopper79> The ready pin is capped off from factory
[12:45:48] <IchGucksLive> so you do neeed 2 Relais to get the FWD and REV
[12:46:07] <IchGucksLive> the pins are in motion
[12:46:09] <chopper79> I put pin 15 to ground and then closed pin 16 to ground as well nothing changes on the vfd.
[12:46:27] <IchGucksLive> NO
[12:46:41] <IchGucksLive> the pin 15 goes to COM on both Relays
[12:47:32] <IchGucksLive> and pin 16 ,17 goes to NO of the Relay
[12:47:47] <IchGucksLive> 16 to Relay 1 17 to Relay 2
[12:48:22] <IchGucksLive> on the Clamp board inside VFD pin 15 is the middle
[12:48:54] <IchGucksLive> Fwd is next to it then REV is next
[12:49:28] <IchGucksLive> 9/10 goes to the -10 +10V
[12:49:55] <chopper79> I understand.... What I was attemoting to do was just close the one contact to make sure the vfd would even activate. I should be abel to just take my signal gound and send it to pin 16 as well and close that contact.
[12:49:56] <IchGucksLive> DO not connect GND to the MESA
[12:50:45] <IchGucksLive> the GND is pin 15
[12:50:49] <chopper79> yes
[12:51:07] <IchGucksLive> if interal logic will acapt it
[12:51:14] <chopper79> and I shoul dbe able to take my signal ground (pin 1) and send it directly to pin 16
[12:51:25] <IchGucksLive> NO
[12:51:26] <chopper79> to close the contact.
[12:51:58] <IchGucksLive> only 15 is to use on all inputs 11-19
[12:52:24] <IchGucksLive> 11-21
[12:52:37] <IchGucksLive> 11-22 ;-)
[12:52:48] <chopper79> correct
[12:53:30] <IchGucksLive> beside the 2 Voltige wire do not connect anything direct to the VFD
[12:53:40] <IchGucksLive> only to Reali
[12:53:44] <chopper79> pin 15 is passed through to pin 16 when the contact is closed. IF this is the case then I should be able to just send my signal ground to pin 16 and close that contact.
[12:53:56] <chopper79> for testing
[12:54:01] <IchGucksLive> with com of all used Relay shorten to pin 15VFD
[12:54:01] <chopper79> no relay needed
[12:54:13] <IchGucksLive> then use wire
[12:55:36] <IchGucksLive> but read it as there is offen most of myne to be FWD REV closed only once not permant
[12:55:51] <IchGucksLive> if you permanant mnt it will not spinn
[12:56:07] <IchGucksLive> WHY do i belive
[12:56:16] <IchGucksLive> there is a softstard cancel
[12:56:16] <chopper79> That is what I have done and the vfd will not activate fwd.
[12:56:27] <IchGucksLive> so logic inside calculates the rate itself
[12:57:13] <chopper79> Tried momentary contact and permentant and neither activates the vfd FWD selection. Must be miising another wire to allow function
[12:57:27] <IchGucksLive> so for test
[12:57:38] <IchGucksLive> get 5V to pin 9/10
[12:58:00] <chopper79> DOne
[12:58:35] <chopper79> Have 9 and 10 connted to my benchtop power supply so I can keep voltage down low
[12:58:36] <IchGucksLive> then pin 15 to 11
[12:59:31] <IchGucksLive> meter 23/24
[12:59:46] <IchGucksLive> shoudt be SHORT
[12:59:50] <chopper79> Just seen pin 13 is estop at open.
[12:59:55] <chopper79> Need to close that lso
[13:00:29] <IchGucksLive> this might do the trick
[13:04:13] <IchGucksLive> MAKE Shure the Vin is accepted
[13:04:26] <IchGucksLive> check 25/26 closed
[13:04:38] <IchGucksLive> 27 28 Closed
[13:09:19] <chopper79> Closed pin 13, 15, and 16 together and spindle will turn slow by itself with no voltage on the signal lines.
[13:10:20] <IchGucksLive> open 16 what happens
[13:10:55] <IchGucksLive> NO Voltige is not correct as you got 0V
[13:11:05] <IchGucksLive> -10 woudt stop
[13:13:33] <chopper79> open 16 and spindle stops
[13:13:49] <IchGucksLive> you got it
[13:13:52] <chopper79> apply 16 and spindle rotates very slow
[13:14:03] <IchGucksLive> so go up to 9V
[13:14:04] <chopper79> with no signal on +/-10 line
[13:14:50] <IchGucksLive> oin 10 is low
[13:14:55] <chopper79> Spindle should not rotate by itself when you select FWD and have zero voltage on the signal end
[13:15:11] <IchGucksLive> you need -10
[13:15:17] <IchGucksLive> for a Stop
[13:15:25] <IchGucksLive> no connect is 0V
[13:15:42] <gregcnc> in that case wouldn't 0V be 50%?
[13:16:20] <IchGucksLive> on control pin 3/4
[13:16:55] <IchGucksLive> it is mesurerd agaist 1-6 logic inside
[13:17:17] <IchGucksLive> there is offen a screw where you can tune the ZERO
[13:17:29] <chopper79> zero voltage input on the +/- signal in should give me 0rpm. The spindle should not move at all unless it sees a voltage inout on the +/- signal pins.
[13:17:49] <chopper79> Pins 3 and 4 are not used
[13:18:10] <gregcnc> is there any tuning to account for offset?
[13:18:12] <chopper79> brb
[13:18:16] <IchGucksLive> did you set the parameters
[13:18:47] <IchGucksLive> FOR me your test is FINE
[13:19:10] <IchGucksLive> only FWD or REV spins the Spindle
[13:19:14] <gregcnc> right, there is just a small offset/bias which can probably be corrected
[13:19:16] <IchGucksLive> thats what it is
[13:19:43] <IchGucksLive> if no sig on FWD or REV no spin
[13:19:46] <IchGucksLive> so itsa ok
[13:20:04] <Jymmm> or a broken wire/control
[13:20:27] <gregcnc> have you found a manual?
[13:22:01] <IchGucksLive> GN8
[13:24:50] <gregcnc> so it looks like the drive works with either fwd/rev, +10V, OR ±10V
[13:32:43] <chopper79> VFD is not connected to 7i77. Testing with a benchtop power supply and jumping wires.
[13:34:07] <chopper79> going to test a couple more things before I connect the vfd to the 7i77.
[13:40:25] <pcw_home> on analog drives you can expect some motion if the drive is enabled even with 0 input
[13:41:34] <pcw_home> the offset is never exactly 0 (and if you zero it it will only be zero at one temperature)
[13:42:48] <pcw_home> it should not be an issue since the drive should be disabled when off
[13:45:21] <pcw_home> Ha found a giant amygdule in the dirt outside (sheep/rain unburied it)
[13:47:41] <chopper79> ok.. So that is a normal thing then. So from that it looks like I can send Pin 13 (estop when open) to a spindle enable pin and Pin 16,17 to the respective pins for FWD and REV. (all using relays and the 7i77 to trigger relays) Then send pin 9,10 to the 7i77 for analog speed control. Does this sound about right?
[14:11:15] <MacPhone> pcw_home in basalt?
[14:11:38] <pcw_home> just loose, there are a lot around here
[14:11:53] <MacPhone> cool.
[14:12:36] <pcw_home> teardrop shaped ones are especially nice
[14:13:01] <MacPhone> pic?
[14:13:56] <pcw_home> I'll have to take one, I have a ~quart bottle of them
[14:30:18] <chopper79> The orinetation signal works perfect. Go from any speed to reduced speed and then dead stop and hold for tool change. This $800 mill purchase is getting better and better every day
[14:30:51] <SpeedEvil> :)
[14:33:29] <chopper79> That price inlcuded an entire second machine worth of servos, spindle motor, spindle cartridge and all electronics. With a spare tool changer assembly. Good deal on this one I thing
[14:33:31] <chopper79> think
[14:34:33] <pcw_home> MacPhone: http://freeby.mesanet.com/amygdules.jpg
[14:42:14] <srdc> Howdy all ... I'm having trouble with an M6 Remap freezing at every M66 line
[14:42:23] <srdc> does anybody have any ideas what could cause this?
[14:42:40] <MacPhone> pcw_home: we dont see those out here. cool stuff
[14:43:43] <srdc> It was working the other day (or at least seemed to be, until we tweaked some ClassicLadder rungs. That is now working as expected, but can't figure out why the NGC file just freezes up everytime it encounters an M66
[14:55:22] <srdc> Well, I'm not sure what happened.
[14:55:44] <srdc> I had all the G0 & G1 moves commented out in my NGC code so that it went through a 'toolchange' without running into anything.
[14:56:23] <srdc> And it literally froze at every M66 (seemed like anyway ... it wouldn't trigger any (MSG, ...) lines after the first M66.
[14:56:40] <srdc> As soon as I uncommented all the other lines, it worked perfectly.
[14:56:43] <srdc> Go figure.
[15:44:16] <XXCoder> good afternoon from sunny wa
[15:48:29] <srdc> afternoon from sunny tx
[15:49:44] <XXCoder> brief break from nasty washington late winter rains
[15:50:55] <roycroft> we're having sunny breaks here too
[15:51:48] <roycroft> unfortunately it's only 8 degrees out, so i am working with my garage door closed - i like it to be 10-12 at least to open the big door
[15:51:57] <roycroft> 15-18 is even better :)
[16:16:43] <Deejay> gn8
[16:24:49] <kyle___> hey guys, dumb question; how are cheap spindle motors built? are they generally DC brushless?
[16:25:05] <kyle___> by cheap spindle motors, I mean the ones you find on alibaba for $100-200
[16:25:28] <SpeedEvil> They are not 'DC' brushless - that's a term invented by silly people.
[16:25:34] <SpeedEvil> They are brushless motors.
[16:25:58] <SpeedEvil> All of these require some sort of AC drive waveform, often from a purpose built controller
[16:26:23] <kyle___> fair enough
[16:26:40] <kyle___> but they're not induction motors, then
[16:26:45] <SpeedEvil> They are permenant magnet motors
[16:26:56] <kyle___> cool
[16:28:07] <kyle___> so the electronic speed controller in my radio control plane is just a cheap VFD?
[16:28:23] <gregcnc> not really
[16:28:35] <kyle___> what's the major difference?
[16:28:44] <gregcnc> it's a BLDC controller
[16:29:02] <kyle___> well now you guys are just making it complicated
[16:29:10] <gregcnc> what are you doing
[16:29:25] <kyle___> trying to wrap my headache-fraught brain around it
[16:29:44] <kyle___> they seem like very similar concepts
[16:30:34] <gregcnc> except BLDC control switch phases based on rotor position and VFD is independent of rotor position and..
[16:30:56] <gregcnc> BLDC is square wave, while VFD attempts to produce sine output
[16:31:40] <gregcnc> VFD for 3 phase AC motors, BLDC for no surprise BLDC motors
[16:32:50] <gregcnc> is there an application in mind or just wondering about how they work?
[16:33:16] <kyle___> just wondering
[16:33:21] <kyle___> that helps a lot, thanks
[16:35:34] <kyle___> so these cheap spindle motors are 3 phase AC motors?
[16:35:49] <Jymmm> I need 3" and 4" goles in a 55gal steel drum, think $20 is worth it? http://www.harborfreight.com/3-in-4-14-in-bi-metal-hole-saw-assorted-set-3-pc-68989.html
[16:35:54] <Jymmm> holes*
[16:37:01] <kyle___> http://www.harborfreight.com/carbide-tip-adjustable-circle-cutter-69063.html might this work?
[16:37:12] <gregcnc> AC motor = induction motor, yes those china spindles are AC
[16:38:02] <Jymmm> kyle___: I have one of those... pretty scary and dnagerous.
[16:38:04] <gregcnc> actually there are also DC and BLDC china spindles in small sizes too
[16:38:14] <kyle___> that they are, Jymmm
[16:38:28] <kyle___> probably not that suitable for a hand-held drill
[16:38:54] <Jymmm> kyle___: Especially with me sitting on the drum so close to the chestnuts =)
[16:39:32] <kyle___> scary! $20 seems decent for a set of HF hole saws though
[16:39:54] <kyle___> does that set even come with an arbor though?
[16:39:58] <gregcnc> depends if they cut more than one hole each
[16:40:30] <kyle___> for sure, they're just HSS
[16:41:31] <gregcnc> maybe they are HSS, or sortaHSS or annealed HSS, who knows?
[16:42:02] <gregcnc> which is a good reason to ask if anyone has used them
[16:42:04] <kyle___> high speed chinesium
[16:42:24] <kyle___> dad has a set, they seem ok, but they're pretty old so I can't guarantee they're the same thing
[16:42:56] <kyle___> the fact that they're old is somewhat reassuring though
[16:43:24] <Jymmm> no, no arbor, but I have one already. They say "bi-metal" but maybe that just means it bats for the other side *shrug*
[16:44:39] <Jymmm> If it gets thru the steel wall of the drum, I'd probably be hapy. IT's gitta beat what I did with a angle grinder and cutoff blade =)
[16:45:40] <gregcnc> jigsaw?
[16:46:20] <Jymmm> gregcnc: Oh, go and make sense on me... WTH?!
[16:46:50] <gregcnc> I don't one one, but if I did....
[16:46:54] <gregcnc> own
[16:47:56] <kyle___> how steady are you and how circular do your holes need to be? lol
[16:48:02] <Jymmm> Yeah, totally makese sense. I did such a botch job on the cutff wheel, burned a hole in the drum with the welder, I would like to at least have a clean hole this time
[16:48:53] <Jymmm> 3" pipe, 3" hole, minimal fubar's
[16:50:05] <gregcnc> i don't like hole saws in sheet metal
[16:51:48] <Jymmm> why's that?
[16:51:59] <Jymmm> this is a 55gal drum fwiw
[16:53:00] <kyle___> making moonshine?
[16:53:12] <Jymmm> gregcnc: if you mean REALLY thin stuff that you can flex with your pinky, yeah I hate that, just grabs and rips
[16:53:28] <Jymmm> kyle___: That would be copper , not steel =)
[16:53:41] <Jymmm> kyle___: thermal mass barrel stove
[16:53:59] <Jymmm> kyle___: thermal mass rocket barrel stove more specifically
[16:54:08] <gregcnc> isn't winter half over?
[16:54:09] <kyle___> ah even more fun then
[16:54:30] <Jymmm> gregcnc: It was 38 this morning
[16:54:36] <Jymmm> 38F
[16:55:03] <Jymmm> gregcnc: Plus it's hard to weld in the rain and snow
[16:56:25] <gregcnc> did you give up on the water pipe idea?
[17:01:07] <CaptHindsight> whatcha makin?
[17:05:50] <kyle___> wonder if these small lever switches with rollers will make decent limit switches for my ghetto mill
[17:06:20] <kyle___> these mechanical switches seem like they'd bounce too much to be really precise
[17:06:21] <Jymmm> gregcnc: water pipe? As in water + radiators ?
[17:07:44] <Jymmm> gregcnc: If so, no. Just need to revise that a bit in it's design. This is part experiment for that
[18:34:19] <JT-Shop> crap just tore up my last parting tool holder
[18:34:49] <XXCoder> aw :(
[18:34:53] <DaViruz> those crazy party tools
[18:37:20] <malcom2073> I was amazed at how quickly parting off a piece can stall out my lathe heh
[18:37:49] <XXCoder> malcom2073: hey, I'm finally sorted out stuff with help from ich
[18:37:56] <malcom2073> Awesome, goign well?
[18:37:58] <malcom2073> going*
[18:38:11] <JT-Shop> my lathe just breaks the tool
[18:38:13] <XXCoder> so I'm ordering 24v to 12v and 24v (or 12v) to 5v dc-dc convertors
[18:38:42] <XXCoder> gthats what I need to complete power supplies, then I can start test run see how well it works
[18:39:00] <malcom2073> Heh, or tool holder?
[18:39:14] <malcom2073> XXCoder: Awesome, can't wait to see it run on youtube! :)
[18:39:22] <XXCoder> yeah
[18:42:49] <skunkworks_> http://electronicsam.com/images/matsuura/20170211_181137.jpg
[18:42:56] <skunkworks_> some wiring required...
[18:43:34] <XXCoder> I guess you have seperate psu for spindle not shown?
[18:44:03] <XXCoder> and board includes computer interesting. makes for nice one box I guess
[18:44:44] <skunkworks_> The spindle drive is an amc 15a200ac - going to be plugged into the mains
[18:44:58] <XXCoder> fancy. mine is dc
[18:45:11] <skunkworks_> they are nice when you can find them
[18:45:11] <XXCoder> no such thing as ac spindle thats 52mm diameter heh
[18:47:35] <skunkworks_> I could see using a small ac motor with a vfd on these things
[18:47:58] <skunkworks_> but this has a dc spindle that is probably more than big enough for anything it is going to be used for
[18:49:21] <skunkworks_> edm dielectric tank finally coming together..
[18:49:22] <skunkworks_> http://electronicsam.com/images/matsuura/20170211_181734.jpg
[18:49:28] <skunkworks_> too many projects
[18:49:33] <XXCoder> yeah what and how it will be used for is great to know when planning
[18:50:10] <XXCoder> that looks similar with cell I work on at work, only it had 2 tanks on side each machine
[18:50:16] <XXCoder> whats it do
[18:50:21] <XXCoder> I guessed coolant filtering
[18:52:08] <skunkworks_> the oil used in the edm. (fills the work area)
[18:52:15] <skunkworks_> flushes and such
[18:53:14] <XXCoder> interesting I guess mills that had something that look like that it isnt edm tank then]
[19:11:50] <JT-Shop> when parting off alum and the tool starts to chatter what is that telling you?
[19:15:20] <skunkworks_> too fast or too slow?
[19:15:55] <XXCoder> in 2100s, the largest challenge is finding new unique nickname heh
[19:16:50] <gregcnc> parting tool chatter seems odd
[19:17:03] <XXCoder> anyway
[19:17:17] <JT-Shop> not on my old Samson, the CHNC no problem
[19:17:24] <XXCoder> JT-Shop: maybe stupid question, but is tool or something related to it loose?
[19:18:59] <JT-Shop> just checked the compound and it's tight as well as the X axis
[19:19:26] <XXCoder> out of idea then, not very familiar with lathe
[19:19:57] <XXCoder> mill chatter has few root causes, and one of em is tool is getting a little bit too dull
[19:20:31] <JT-Shop> I think I'll just part them off in the CHNC in the morning
[19:27:39] <XXCoder> need avon for that burn? http://static.twentytwowords.com/wp-content/uploads/5fb-1.jpg :D
[19:27:56] <XXCoder> very funny heh
[19:31:51] <XXCoder> JT-Shop: hope partoff goes well :)
[19:32:03] <JT-Shop> good night Gracie
[19:37:10] <kyle___> yess
[19:37:16] <kyle___> the workbench shall stand today
[19:38:27] <kyle___> housemate bought a ton of shitty 1.5"x1.5" strips from home depot for some ill-fated project
[19:38:32] <kyle___> decided he didn't want them
[19:39:01] <kyle___> so I cut them up and glued them into a 6x2.5' workbench
[20:04:47] <MacPhone> evening :)
[20:05:44] <XXCoder> kyle___: fancy
[20:05:46] <XXCoder> hey
[20:06:19] <kyle___> it is a fun way to waste my weekend
[20:16:18] <MacPhone> XXCoder you get out in the sun today?
[20:16:32] <XXCoder> nah
[20:16:58] <MacPhone> still too cold huh? it got up to 80 here
[20:24:05] <MacPhone> but didnt make it out.
[20:25:01] <XXCoder> its cdecent 50f here
[20:25:05] <XXCoder> but dark now
[20:25:13] <XXCoder> and temps going down rapidly
[20:28:51] <MacPhone> do anything fun?
[20:29:15] <XXCoder> not much
[22:14:24] <MacPhone> slow night
[22:15:29] <Tom_L> seems so
[22:15:53] <XXCoder> sat
[22:15:56] <BeachBumPete> http://user.xmission.com/~alanne/DS3/DS3Main.html This is really cool ;)
[22:19:25] <MacPhone> pete you getting ready for a build?
[22:19:36] <BeachBumPete> I don't know man
[22:19:51] <BeachBumPete> I met this guy at a cool local food truck fest
[22:20:09] <BeachBumPete> he was sitting out in this field with a HUGE dobsonian scope aside his SUV
[22:20:21] <BeachBumPete> we walked over eating our grub and started chatting
[22:20:48] <BeachBumPete> he let us all look at it and showed us some freaking amazing views of the moons surface (it was pretty light out there)
[22:21:03] <BeachBumPete> my wife and kids seemed rather impressed
[22:21:06] <MacPhone> c[l
[22:21:09] <BeachBumPete> and I have always kinda wanted one
[22:21:09] <MacPhone> cool
[22:21:25] <BeachBumPete> so been perusing some websites for DIY options
[22:21:40] <BeachBumPete> that one is particularly cool and relatively simple to build
[22:21:57] <BeachBumPete> they get REALLY complex sometimes and quite expensive
[22:21:59] <Tom_L> where do you get the glass from?
[22:22:04] <MacPhone> build a setup to polish your own mirrors
[22:22:09] <BeachBumPete> there are links in the plans
[22:22:23] <BeachBumPete> that is about the only thing I dont want to do really
[22:22:27] <BeachBumPete> I hear its a bitch
[22:22:38] <BeachBumPete> plus if you screw it up it is basically junk
[22:22:42] <Tom_L> i've got an 8" i haven't had out in a very long time
[22:22:50] <BeachBumPete> dobbie?
[22:22:51] <Tom_L> (telescope)
[22:23:03] <MacPhone> i read a few articles and the mirrors are definitely the toughest part
[22:23:20] <BeachBumPete> yeah you can buy the mirrors for like under 500 bucks for that build
[22:23:30] <BeachBumPete> for a 12 inch scope that is not all that bad really
[22:23:51] <MacPhone> but you could also build a jig and grind your own
[22:23:53] <BeachBumPete> he says he highly recommends going to a 16 inch but he is pretty serious astronomer
[22:23:58] <XXCoder> I remember reading a project of grinding own mirror
[22:24:06] <XXCoder> it looked simple and very hard to do
[22:24:19] <Tom_L> just gathers more light
[22:24:26] <BeachBumPete> I have little interest in making my own mirrors
[22:24:42] <BeachBumPete> yeah but the more light you can bring in the farther out you can reach
[22:24:53] <Tom_L> exactly
[22:25:02] <BeachBumPete> I like the simple spider setup with wires he made it is dead simple
[22:25:23] <BeachBumPete> the rest is basic woodworking with a handheld router or better yet a CNC
[22:26:07] <BeachBumPete> I think the one he had we looked thru was a 10 inch tube
[22:26:25] <BeachBumPete> I bought my kids a meade reflector its basically a POS
[22:26:31] <BeachBumPete> in comparison anyway
[22:26:49] <Tom_L> i think mine's an 8" celestron
[22:26:51] <BeachBumPete> that orion dobbie he had was quite impressive
[22:27:07] <MacPhone> summer vacation in the remote desert with that thing
[22:27:12] <BeachBumPete> the craters on the moon were unbelievable
[22:27:29] <Tom_L> one year i was watching several planets
[22:27:36] <BeachBumPete> I mean orders of magnitude better than anything we saw with the meade
[22:28:00] <BeachBumPete> he had photos he took with it of nebulae and planets etc... looks impressive
[22:28:19] <BeachBumPete> and his was just a commercial offering with some aftermarket add ons.
[22:28:42] <BeachBumPete> he had like less than a grand in the whole thing he said.
[22:28:51] <MacPhone> the eye piece would probably be pretty critical
[22:28:57] <Tom_L> http://www.highpointscientific.com/media/catalog/product/cache/image/345x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/1/1/11069_nexstar_8se_computerized_telescope_1_2.jpg
[22:29:01] <Tom_L> similar to mine
[22:29:20] <BeachBumPete> that looks like a decent scope very nice
[22:29:23] <MacPhone> whats the compter for?
[22:29:31] <Tom_L> tracking
[22:29:43] <Tom_L> several thousand object tracking
[22:29:59] <BeachBumPete> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Orion-8974-SkyQuest-XT8-PLUS-Dobsonian-Reflector-Telescope-/282253954640?hash=item41b7a58e50:g:6yoAAOSw5cNYJ8HP
[22:30:09] <BeachBumPete> this is like what he had but an 10" tube
[22:30:20] <Tom_L> yeah
[22:30:22] <BeachBumPete> it is surprisingly good
[22:30:28] <MacPhone> wow. did you guys see the most complete celestial map to date?
[22:30:30] <Tom_L> mine's a reflector
[22:30:36] <Tom_L> no
[22:30:37] <BeachBumPete> they do not generally have the fancy auto tracking stuff
[22:31:00] <BeachBumPete> but they are known to be great especially for deep space viewing
[22:31:41] <Tom_L> http://www.highpointscientific.com/media/catalog/product/cache/image/345x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/1/1/11069-bun_1.jpg
[22:31:51] <Tom_L> i've got that lens kit at the bottom left
[22:31:57] <MacPhone> https://vimeo.com/152764616
[22:32:02] <BeachBumPete> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Orion-SkyQuest-XT10-IntelliScope-Dobsonian-Reflector-Telescope-/151734104820?hash=item23540eb2f4:g:zKMAAOSwHnFVvg6g
[22:32:10] <BeachBumPete> that looks like it might be the one he had
[22:32:30] <BeachBumPete> its a big sucker
[22:32:44] <BeachBumPete> need an SUV or a VAN to transport it
[22:32:52] <Tom_L> yeah, those tubes are long
[22:32:57] <BeachBumPete> that is what is so cool about the plan I posted earlier
[22:33:12] <BeachBumPete> the truss tubes are removable and you can stick the whole thing in a small car easily
[22:33:33] <BeachBumPete> plus it can be a 12 or 16 or even 20 inch lens
[22:34:02] <BeachBumPete> http://user.xmission.com/~alanne/DS5/DS5Main.html
[22:34:03] <Tom_L> it's nice to be able to track an object
[22:34:08] <BeachBumPete> that is his 20 incher
[22:34:28] <BeachBumPete> Tom_L it sure is man
[22:34:38] <BeachBumPete> I have used that electronic tracking system before
[22:34:50] <Tom_L> the further out, the harder it is to follow by hand
[22:34:52] <BeachBumPete> once aligned it basically goes right to the item you want
[22:35:00] <BeachBumPete> and keeps it there for you
[22:35:06] <BeachBumPete> pretty damn slick
[22:35:10] <Tom_L> especially if you wanna do photography
[22:35:55] <Tom_L> there was an aussie in #robotics that was into it
[22:36:28] <BeachBumPete> I could see building that design it is relatively simple and cheap considering the power you get
[22:36:34] <MacPhone> linuxcnc dobbie?
[22:36:43] <Tom_L> yeah
[22:37:19] <BeachBumPete> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ciAe2UQ_18
[22:37:31] <MacPhone> probably do it w nema17
[22:37:40] <Tom_L> gotta run an errand.. bak later
[22:38:23] <Tom_L> MacPhone, it wouldn't take much
[22:39:25] <Tom_L> mine has batteries but i generally hook it to the car battery
[22:41:13] <MacPhone> can u track the iss?
[22:41:38] <os1r1s> Funny ... I just got back in from using the telescope
[22:41:53] <MacPhone> heh. any pics?
[22:41:53] <os1r1s> Totally missed the eclipse though :)
[23:50:06] <XXCoder> https://www.amazon.com/3-2-30V-0-56inch-Digital-Voltmeter-Two-wire/dp/B00L8HK2H0/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1486876832&sr=8-4&keywords=24v+to+12v
[23:50:10] <XXCoder> interesting
[23:50:31] <XXCoder> probably not useful for cnc lol
[23:52:49] <XXCoder> tons of buzzers. make quick buzzer throwies heh
[23:56:48] <XXCoder> what the heck, 24v to 12v module for 30A is cheaper than 3a one...
[23:57:51] <XXCoder> https://www.amazon.com/Converter-Converters-Electric-Step-Down-Voltage/dp/B00UMXLY4Q/
[23:58:02] <XXCoder> any problems on this, besides yes, overkill