#linuxcnc | Logs for 2017-02-07

[01:50:58] <IchGucksLive> Mornig from Germany
[01:52:03] <IchGucksLive> cool first post of the day
[01:52:10] <IchGucksLive> in the log
[01:52:20] <IchGucksLive> makes me smile
[01:52:29] <IchGucksLive> have a non bit breaking day
[01:53:36] <kengu> hmm
[02:37:09] <pink_vampire> hi
[02:37:39] <Wolf_> morning or is it evening?
[02:38:35] <archivist> 8 AM coffee time
[02:39:41] <Deejay> moin
[02:41:17] <pink_vampire> Wolf_: I'm a vampire
[02:41:29] <pink_vampire> here is just 3AM
[02:41:56] * Wolf_ knows what time it is =P
[02:42:11] <Deejay> night-owl ;)
[02:42:28] <Deejay> 9am here. good morning vieetnaam!
[02:42:48] <archivist> Wolf_, been thinking...dangerous I know, but should battery probes work a bit like the real thing with a wake up (includes the interface needing setting active)
[02:43:48] <Wolf_> probably does need a turn on/wake up/power switch
[02:44:03] <Wolf_> else it will drain batteries
[02:45:10] <archivist> I was thinking.....if the interface actually knew the real optical protocol, then less work on some probes, just use them
[02:45:49] <Wolf_> would be neat
[02:46:15] <archivist> sort of need the real thing though to learn/reverse engineer
[02:46:42] <Wolf_> yeah, missing that here
[02:48:05] <archivist> must re read something on the mailing list(69 posts) [Emc-users] snagged touch probe on eBay - anybody know how to interface
[02:48:10] <Wolf_> well, I do have the MP9, but no idea if it works, and need to spin it to wake up
[02:50:07] <archivist> the LT02 I have gets a message from the interface via OMM
[02:51:07] <minibnz> oh my new stepper motor arrived for my Z axis... and as always with a rush purchase i didnt notice the output shaft was a different size..
[02:54:44] <archivist> well in that string of messages is "I can provide dumps of OMM, OMI, Mahrpos and Heidenhain turn-on codes if anyone is interested"
[02:55:14] <Wolf_> nice
[02:56:21] <minibnz> this one is much larger.. its 12mm diam... wouldn't be a problem if i had a normal size pulley, but i have a custom 10t T5 pulley that i made, the internal diam of the lows in the teeth are 13mm in diam.. i dont think that wil transfer the 700oz/in of torque...
[02:56:55] <minibnz> i thought i could just bore out the one i had but no.. no i gotta find a pulley that has a 12mm hole or can have its hole drilled out...
[02:57:38] <minibnz> oh and cuz i have to use a larger pulley i will loose a little but meh i have more than i 'think' need
[03:00:32] <archivist> Wolf_, I got the file but it is in a logic analyser format for windows only grrrrrr
[03:00:42] <Wolf_> doh
[03:00:57] <archivist> actually Im wrong
[03:01:25] <archivist> but ubunto 12 which I dont have running
[03:10:08] <archivist> does not run on this box
[04:57:26] <XXCoder> boo
[05:37:27] <minibnz> ok i have the new z axis motor mounted and wired in.. drilled out Y axis pulley to fit new shaft :) then moved old z motor and pulley down to Y and fixed the belt tensioner.. time to see what it will do :)
[05:57:10] <gonzo_> you sound as busy as me
[06:02:50] <archivist> anybody got the saleae logic software running ?
[06:03:13] <_methods> on a clone?
[06:03:21] <archivist> I would like a screen dump or csv export of http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/mirror/probe/renishaw_salae/renishaw-alt.logicdata
[06:03:22] <_methods> or actual saleae hardware
[06:03:45] <archivist> I have no idea, just have that file :)
[06:03:48] <_methods> ahh
[06:03:54] <_methods> i don't have it on this computer
[06:04:04] <_methods> give me a few i'll install it
[06:04:30] <archivist> it wouldnt run on this old box
[06:04:59] <_methods> downloading now
[06:05:25] <archivist> thanks
[06:05:31] <_methods> np
[06:06:28] <_methods> ive never actually used their software i always just use sigrok
[06:08:07] <_methods> shit needs a newer version
[06:08:56] <_methods> downloading the beta version now
[06:11:51] <_methods> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23537674/renishaw.csv
[06:11:56] <_methods> see if that works for you
[06:12:36] <XXCoder> wow what stupidity
[06:12:50] <XXCoder> cards against humanity paid tons money for 30 second video
[06:13:00] <XXCoder> its a pototo with "advertisement"
[06:13:10] <XXCoder> https://youtu.be/gcWW-pN_niE
[06:13:22] <XXCoder> they filed for chapter 11 bankruptacy
[06:13:23] <_methods> archivist: that work?
[06:14:00] <archivist> _methods, yes I can open in openoffice and see the transitions
[06:15:08] <_methods> good deal
[06:15:32] <XXCoder> arch i wonder if virtualpc would work to run whatever program that us
[06:18:10] <archivist> timing data looks like it may just be transition time
[06:18:22] <IchGucksLive> hi
[06:18:29] <IchGucksLive> minibnz: ?
[06:19:00] <XXCoder> hey from solid snow state usa
[06:19:46] <IchGucksLive> maedler.de got a online tool to calculate the force withstands the timingbelt
[06:19:54] <IchGucksLive> under tools
[06:20:14] <IchGucksLive> first icon on page ZAHNRIEMEN
[06:20:36] <IchGucksLive> buld your envirement and messure the force
[06:20:59] <IchGucksLive> you also can put katalog parts together so you see what retches your numbers
[06:22:05] <IchGucksLive> XXCoder: i got incomming icerain http://www.unwetterzentrale.de/uwz/rlpindex.html
[06:22:26] <IchGucksLive> JT-Shop2: do you got a link to your shop
[06:22:35] <jdh> 22c here today
[06:22:48] <XXCoder> wow. well snow here is last harrah as it rises to 40s 50s F for rest of week
[06:23:19] <IchGucksLive> ok im off
[06:23:40] <jthornton> rained all night here
[06:45:04] <minibnz> ahh thats much better... i re-tuned all my axis' after swapping the motors and pulleys about.. it now looks like i can go 75mm/min on the axis and about 120mm/min on X & Y (X could be faster but meh) i still have bigger motors to fit onto X & Y but they havent arrived yet, probably friday when im going to be busy as.. :(
[06:45:53] <minibnz> i even measured the backlash in the Z axis to be 1.83mm !!!! its huge.... reallly need to see if i can do something about that...
[06:48:53] <minibnz> the new motors for X & Y are 425oz... so that should help with things.. Z axis is always going to be slower than the others .
[06:50:23] <XXCoder> minibnz: how do you check that?
[06:50:29] <XXCoder> set dial then hand move?
[06:51:33] <minibnz> which bit the speed or the backlash?
[06:51:34] <archivist> never go close to max speed with steppers
[06:51:44] <XXCoder> backlash
[06:52:20] <minibnz> archivist i backed off from the speed that it could move to a bit lower..
[06:52:42] <archivist> bit/lot :)
[06:53:55] <archivist> that caught me out, larger load off centre more friction an hour into a job, missed steps
[06:53:56] <minibnz> down from 112 to 75 on Z and 180 down to 120 roughly about 30%
[06:55:54] <minibnz> XXCoder what ya do is.. tell it to move an axis (say 20mm) to the left set your dial or calipers to zero and move back to the right and set the calipers or dial to zero then move back to the left again, the second time you move left it will not really be zero the difference is what you put in to BACKLASH = Value in the ini file for that axis.
[06:56:37] <minibnz> then when you gcode says to change directions on that axis you will get a rapid G0 speed adjustment on that axis then it will start moving the requested distance..
[06:57:11] <minibnz> if you get it right you should be able to get the dial to read zero when you move one way then back again
[06:58:17] <minibnz> Archivist i ran in to that too, at the moment i have a 65mm x65mm @250mm Long lump of aluminium bolted to the bed a job i am trying to chip away at while the mill continues to break every other day
[07:26:32] <minibnz> ok might be time to try and make some chips :)
[07:27:10] <archivist> or break some bits
[07:27:23] <skunkworks> or a little of both?
[07:46:01] <MacGalempsy> morning
[07:50:57] <minibnz> looks like its going well so far.. i have tripled the drilling speed.. from 7.5mm/min up to 22mm/min and slowed down the spindle as well.. my Z stepper was seriously under powered :)
[07:51:20] <enleth> so there was this Mesa reseller in Germany I think - what was their website address?
[07:51:40] <minibnz> now i think its just enough.. i am tempted to see if i can move the gearbox from this one to the newer 425oz motor when they arrive :)
[07:54:17] <MacGalempsy> sounds fun.
[07:54:26] <sync_> minibnz: that is seriously slow
[07:56:05] <MacGalempsy> going to make hal cnxns to my cl program. run a pullup to the spindle sensor and it should be ready to debug the program
[07:57:01] <MacGalempsy> hopefully there is no debug ;)
[08:00:41] <minibnz> sync_ its a small mill.. :) its a seig X2
[08:00:52] <sync_> still slow
[08:01:16] <minibnz> how fast should be trying to drive a 8mm drill bit into a block of ally?
[08:01:55] <gregcnc> .05-.1mm/tooth
[08:02:05] <minibnz> i dont really know, i start off with a guess then tweak it by hear and what the chips look like.
[08:02:24] <minibnz> so 0.1mm per revolution upto 0.2mm per rev?
[08:02:30] <gregcnc> the rest depends on how much power you have
[08:02:32] <minibnz> for a normal drill bit..
[08:03:06] <gregcnc> normal meaning garden store variety? who knows
[08:03:09] <MacGalempsy> peck drilling?
[08:03:20] <minibnz> ahh ok i have been planing on reading up on this but i have not had time.. this will help a bit..
[08:03:35] <minibnz> yeah running a G83 with 2.5mm deep pecks
[08:03:46] <minibnz> seems to not jam up at that setting..
[08:04:15] <MacGalempsy> what is this mm thing?
[08:04:25] <gregcnc> try it you
[08:04:26] <gregcnc> 'll like it
[08:04:42] <MacGalempsy> ;)
[08:04:50] <Wolf_> that thing has what, a 500W spindle?
[08:04:51] <minibnz> add that to a bit lump o metal to drill thru to the slow z axis and this i why i it will take me an age to get thru this block...
[08:05:06] <minibnz> yeah 500w its no beast...
[08:05:24] <MacGalempsy> no mm until atc cyclces
[08:06:10] <minibnz> i got my quote in for water cutting my tool platter parts.. and it was $760au mostly in 6mm ally
[08:06:20] <MacGalempsy> did manage to figure out how to trigger m19 thru hal
[08:06:32] <sync_> yeah .2mm/rev sounds good
[08:06:36] <minibnz> i have the power draw bar almost done just one more bolt to sort out there...
[08:06:51] <Wolf_> My x1 mill is easy to set the drilling feed speed, I just crank it up till the head starts nodding =/
[08:07:11] <MacGalempsy> sweet
[08:07:34] <minibnz> yeah i set a 3x max override in the GUI so i could only get upto 22mm/min 1/ipm :(
[08:08:02] <minibnz> next test will start at 25m/min then the gui can triple that to my working max speed for Z
[08:11:35] <sync_> just set your override to 1000% max
[08:11:39] <sync_> that is what I usually do
[08:13:25] <minibnz> you know what you are doin :) (or at least sound like you do :P )
[08:13:58] <minibnz> if i set my override that high i would have probably lost an eye from shattering cutters by accident..
[08:15:03] <minibnz> i found a crappy feature on my keyboard.. it has a buton that willl power down the linux box.. and its right on the top edge of the keyboard so if you hold it with one hand you can bump that during a mill cycle pretty easy
[08:16:09] <Wolf_> I think you can disable the sleep key
[08:16:50] <minibnz> oh its not sleep its power.. and yeah you probably can in some obscure place :) i might just superglue it :)
[08:16:58] <Wolf_> lol
[08:17:06] <minibnz> me have hammer want to bash smash...
[08:17:07] <Wolf_> well thats one way to do it
[08:20:43] <minibnz> looks like i have gone from a 40min per hole down too about 15min per hole yAy new stepper is a win..
[08:21:14] <Wolf_> wtf, what size hole in what material?
[08:21:16] <minibnz> and it looks like i dont miss any steps on Z now.. i could probably code that block to drill over night
[08:21:43] <archivist> faster to use a pillar drill
[08:22:24] <minibnz> ok i have a block of ally 65mm square and 250mm long.. ATM i am drilling 12 x 8mm pilot holes in a pattern to make that into a 38mm hole.. and i have to do it twice..
[08:23:01] <minibnz> so far it took me the weekend and a day to drill 12 holes and i am just starting on the second set of 12 holes..
[08:23:20] <Wolf_> weird, I would just pocket mill that lol
[08:23:21] <minibnz> then i have to trim the edges of the holes so they are a nice 38mm hole
[08:23:23] <sync_> probably faster to helix the holes out
[08:24:04] <Wolf_> and I think my X1 drills faster then that, so something sounds off lol
[08:24:18] <minibnz> i thought that too but my mate has been at me suggesting different ways and i thought this would be a good way, i started with the plan i am ONLY going to CNC mill this thing 100%
[08:24:37] <minibnz> and i probably should change plans but i am a stubborn shit...
[08:25:25] <minibnz> usually i do some of the easier bits by hand.. so i thought this would be a good test to see if i can CNC the entire thing for a change
[08:25:41] <gregcnc> do you have a lathe?
[08:25:55] <gregcnc> are these in the ends?
[08:26:14] <minibnz> no across the 65mm side
[08:26:45] <minibnz> once they are cut i have to roll the block over and tilt the post and drill some holes and mill some bearing seats..
[08:26:59] <Wolf_> so hole is 38mm dia, by 65mm deep or 250mm?
[08:27:13] <minibnz> 65mm deep
[08:27:27] <minibnz> its a drill jig for making intake manifolds for 10A use 13B hats.
[08:28:12] <minibnz> come to think about it i should probably have bored the big holes on the lathe with the milling attachment i purchased and still havent used..
[08:28:55] <minibnz> this jig is a test for me to see if i am capable of making some parts for a laser.. (test me and my tools )
[08:29:30] <MacGalempsy> time for a bow drill
[08:29:33] <gregcnc> how large an endmill can your mill handle?
[08:29:49] <Wolf_> round holes are a good test for how well build your cnc is
[08:30:07] <minibnz> 13mm i have a 12mm carbide 4 flute that i plan to use to trim up the hole
[08:30:27] <minibnz> Wolf_ also good for testing your 3d printer..
[08:31:04] <Wolf_> I have almost the same mill http://i.imgur.com/cbTjU5A.jpg I might bother to finish it this year lol
[08:31:36] <MacGalempsy> work it
[08:31:56] <minibnz> nice..
[08:32:08] <MacGalempsy> almost done myself https://flic.kr/p/RDbQFf
[08:32:47] <Wolf_> nice
[08:33:42] <MacGalempsy> getting excited to test the atc
[08:33:42] <minibnz> I have a dividing head that i can bolt down on the bed in A or B axis.. its great..
[08:34:37] <minibnz> your drawbar is pretty neat.. i have these big bits of angle sliding and a electric linear actuator and a
[08:35:04] <minibnz> bunch of springs to lift and press my drawbar.. its a bit convoluted but it works
[08:35:20] <Wolf_> I need to redo my setup, going to need more force
[08:36:45] <minibnz> i had a air piston that only just started to compress the first weak arse spring i had, now i have the washer springs and this piston on a 100m lever to multiply its 125N of push.. i think it could probably shear the bolts i have used to build it...
[08:37:02] <minibnz> i dont wanna get my fingers caught in there..
[08:37:27] <minibnz> i should build a safety cover so i dont get my hair stuck in it..
[08:37:31] <minibnz> that could be bad...
[08:40:07] <MacGalempsy> slightly. or just get a trim
[08:40:27] <minibnz> trim.. its past my shoulders..
[08:41:08] <minibnz> i think i will wrap it in 0.5mm ally sheet i have here.. that will hide a multitude of sins..
[08:41:43] <minibnz> paint it hammertone and no one will be the wiser :0
[08:42:25] <minibnz> but i will wait until i see it swap a tool or two before i bother trying to hide stuff..
[08:42:52] <minibnz> ok its past my bed time.. 1am here.. will talk with you all later...
[09:20:22] <IchGucksLive> hi
[09:20:35] <IchGucksLive> im done for today leaving early
[09:20:45] <IchGucksLive> as ice rain is in the next hour forcast
[09:21:47] <IchGucksLive> till later ;-)
[09:21:53] <MacGalempsy> bye
[09:25:33] <pink_vampire> hi
[09:25:40] <pink_vampire> any life?
[09:25:50] <MacGalempsy> only the undead
[09:26:01] <pink_vampire> lol!
[09:26:11] <MacGalempsy> what are you doing?
[09:29:40] <pink_vampire> MacGalempsy: just finished one part, and facing 2 blocks of stock for 2 additional parts.
[09:29:59] <MacGalempsy> sweet. pics?
[09:30:18] <pink_vampire> one sec i will take
[09:30:56] <pink_vampire> I'm eating
[09:31:08] <MacGalempsy> :) np
[09:31:58] <Wolf_> mmm food
[09:34:36] * archivist knibbles lemon puff biscuits
[09:35:20] <archivist> I often knibble while coding
[09:38:11] <jdh> and while not coding?
[09:46:09] <MacGalempsy> coding and drinking coffee make my spelling errors faster
[09:46:48] <MacGalempsy> nothing like a double cap with 2 lumps
[09:47:03] <MacGalempsy> well 2 heaping :)
[09:48:19] <archivist> just coding a data viewer so I can see what is going on
[10:44:45] <MacGalempsy> well. I think that does it. all the programming is done. now just need to figure out how to do a pullup on the index sensor
[10:45:56] <archivist> a resistor
[10:46:10] <MacGalempsy> I got the 2.2k resistor
[10:46:17] <MacGalempsy> just not sure on how to hook it up
[10:46:24] <MacGalempsy> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5a/Pullup_Resistor.png/220px-Pullup_Resistor.png
[10:46:24] <archivist> sometimes included in your input
[10:46:54] <MacGalempsy> so the switch puts out 24v, but the mesa can only take 5v
[10:47:14] <MacGalempsy> so is Vin in the picture the 24v
[10:47:24] <archivist> yes
[10:47:33] <MacGalempsy> v out is the encoder input?
[10:48:05] <archivist> encoders dont have inputs generally
[10:48:21] <archivist> that is an output
[10:48:25] <MacGalempsy> this is using a pnp prox sensor
[10:49:38] <archivist> please draw what you actually have not use a wp image
[10:49:52] <MacGalempsy> ok
[10:51:56] <MacGalempsy> pcw_home: yesterday you mentioned doing a 2k pullup resistor with this prox sensor and mesa encoder input. can you help me out with how to make the connections?
[10:52:43] <archivist> if npn open collector then 2k2 to 5v is sensible
[10:52:48] <pcw_home> First you need to determine if its a NPN or PNP type prox
[10:53:06] <MacGalempsy> i believe it is pnp
[10:53:14] <pcw_home> a PNP prox will not work
[10:53:40] <MacGalempsy> dang
[10:53:42] <archivist> unless you add a voltage conversion/buffer
[10:54:18] <MacGalempsy> will a voltage divider do the trick?
[10:54:18] <pcw_home> A optocoupler would be the safest thing
[10:54:46] <archivist> yup another way
[10:54:57] <pcw_home> a voltage divider can be used but it needs to be quite low impedance (say 1K, 200 Ohms)
[10:55:18] <MacGalempsy> ok. I will need to run to radioshack
[10:55:38] <pcw_home> 1K 2W 200 Ohm 1/4 W
[10:55:51] <pcw_home> (assuming 24V)
[10:56:03] <MacGalempsy> yes
[10:56:07] <MacGalempsy> 24v
[10:56:17] <pink_vampire> hi again
[10:57:45] <pcw_home> I should finish my QUADOPTO DIN modules, they would be perfect for this (4-24V 10 mA in 100 ma SSR out x4)
[10:57:52] <pink_vampire> here is the finish part! http://i.imgur.com/PBnxQbK.png look the the reflection from the usb stick.
[10:58:30] <archivist> I agree an opto is safest for the mesa inputs on this
[10:58:47] <MacGalempsy> ohhhh. shiney
[10:59:39] <pink_vampire> for a facing on the g0704 I can't ask for more.
[11:00:34] <archivist> evel looks like the model of the other day :)
[11:00:40] <archivist> even
[11:01:58] <pink_vampire> archivist: i did everything on the vise with no jigs.
[11:03:16] <pink_vampire> just a support from foam pvc that I press between the 2 legs of the part (I cut the pvc with a knife)
[11:05:45] <MacGalempsy> of course radioshack doesnt have the optocoupler
[11:05:51] <pink_vampire> archivist: this is how I support the part http://i.imgur.com/U87nLgL.png
[11:06:13] <pink_vampire> MacGalempsy: what kind of opto you need?
[11:06:14] <MacGalempsy> what reason would be to not use the voltage divider?
[11:06:54] <jensor> Why can't I connect to halui.estop.is-activated - I get error halui.estop.is-activated was already linked to signal 'estopactivated'
[11:07:27] <jensor> I'm trying to connect a remote Estop button
[11:09:56] <jensor> The code I'm using is in: http://pastebin.com/WKuvtGpw
[11:11:35] <pcw_home> MacGalempsy: disadvantages of divider:
[11:11:36] <pcw_home> 1. Power (because it needs to be low impedance to swamp the built-in 2K pullup)
[11:11:38] <pcw_home> 2. Risk of damage (if you lose the voltage dividers ground connection you will put 24V (with 1K in series) into the 7I77s encoder input)
[11:13:58] <MacGalempsy> thank you. I will order an optocoupler. next question: any recommendations?
[11:14:56] <JT-Shop> not an opto but a 5v prox http://www.newark.com/inductive-proximity-sensors/supply-voltage-dc-min/5v/pg/811258300
[11:15:10] <pcw_home> Power would be about 1/2 W when high
[11:15:12] <pcw_home> almost any standard transistor output OPTO will do (not Darlington)
[11:17:55] <MacGalempsy> JT-Shop: replacing the current one will require disassembling the head. trying to just add to the wiring speghetti
[11:20:59] <Roguish> MacGalempsy: use one of these. they're great. http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=94&search=7i37
[11:23:24] <MacGalempsy> https://www.amazon.com/Numato-Lab-Opto-Isolator-Breakout/dp/B00UWSGXEW/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1486486428&sr=8-4&keywords=optoisolator
[11:24:24] <Roguish> make sure it's fast enough. probably is but worth a check....
[11:24:29] <MacGalempsy> ok
[11:24:35] <roycroft> is halrun being actively maintained?
[11:27:27] <MacGalempsy> so I guess 7500 rpm comes out to 125bps
[11:29:39] <pcw_home> that one looks like it has series resistors on the outputs which is a bit crazy
[11:29:51] <MacGalempsy> im looking on mouser right now
[11:29:52] <Roguish> pink_vampire: did you put ball screws in your g0704 ? what quality (precision grade)?
[11:30:14] <pink_vampire> yes it is a ball screw.
[11:30:27] <pink_vampire> it was some china stuff.
[11:30:46] <Roguish> how's the backlash? can you tell?
[11:31:02] <pink_vampire> 0.01-0.03mm
[11:31:22] <sync_> lel
[11:32:12] <Roguish> so like .0004-.0012 inch?
[11:32:51] <roycroft> i'm looking at some ball screws with double nuts for my little mill
[11:33:39] <pink_vampire> I'm getting a good finish because I'm working conventual 90% of the time, and just take lite cut climb milling to get a good finish.
[11:34:14] <gregcnc> conventional gives good finish?
[11:34:39] <pink_vampire> I don't have double nut ball nut.
[11:34:48] <roycroft> http://www.ebay.com/itm/251954399873
[11:34:53] <roycroft> like those
[11:35:00] <roycroft> that seller has been around for a long time
[11:35:07] <pink_vampire> gregcnc: NO! but the lite cut climb to the trick.
[11:35:15] <roycroft> he'll cut custom lengths and even machine the ends to spec if you need
[11:35:50] <roycroft> you just send him your specs and he'll make a private listing for you
[11:38:16] <jdh> I got mine from him. single nut though
[11:38:34] <sync_> roycroft: why not just get an actual preloaded screw, for a little more than $200 nsk should have something for you in that size
[11:38:41] <roycroft> i got some ball screws from him for a different project a couple years ago
[11:38:50] <roycroft> single nut at the time
[11:38:58] <pink_vampire> on a machine like the G0704 and all the small milling machines you can't load the machine with have climb cuts. the body get flex and you don't get a good finish, BUT if you take a light finish climb cut' you get a good finish even with the leadscrew.
[11:40:57] <roycroft> other than the double ball nut configurating being longer, what is the effective difference between a single pre-loaded nut vs. preloading with double nuts?
[11:41:11] <pink_vampire> I did a part with the dro of linux cnc.
[11:41:11] <gregcnc> probably load capacity
[11:41:39] <roycroft> it seems that the double nut is more flexible, as one can adjust the pre-loading easily
[11:41:50] <sync_> you don't want to adjust it
[11:41:53] <pink_vampire> roycroft: get better nuts.
[11:42:03] <sync_> you choose one that has the right preload and use it
[11:42:08] <Loetmichel> *sigh* i am getting old... today i soldered wires on 0402-leds... with 2.5 times magnifying lens glasses on my nose. cand do it without any more, arms ate to short to get the PCB in focus :-( . Just checked my wifes +2diopter reading glasses: perfect for 50cm focus distance. *ordered one online */sigh*
[11:42:32] <roycroft> thanks for the not answer
[11:42:40] <pink_vampire> the china stuff get some play over time.
[11:43:08] <Roguish> a double nut, if adjusted correctly, significantly reduces backlash.
[11:43:48] <roycroft> and a single pre-loaded nut the same, roguish
[11:43:54] <Roguish> there are other methods to reduce the backlash, which is essentially 'slop'
[11:43:55] <roycroft> my question was not what do they do
[11:44:10] <roycroft> it was what are the differences between the two types of nuts
[11:44:18] <roycroft> since they both do the same thing
[11:44:27] <pink_vampire> the rapid move on my machine was 5M min, and it was eating the ballnuts.
[11:44:28] <gregcnc> duh one one only one and the other has two
[11:44:29] <Roguish> roycroft: you are correct.
[11:44:45] <roycroft> which i pointed out already
[11:44:54] <pink_vampire> so, jet something like hiwin
[11:45:46] <pink_vampire> IKO also good
[11:46:10] <Roguish> load capacity 'may' increase with 2 nuts, given the same make and model of screw
[11:46:20] <pink_vampire> I have 1" rails from them.
[11:46:21] <gregcnc> any name brand will be decent, as long as it's sized for the loads and speeds
[11:46:43] <gregcnc> which is curiously why the mfg offer engineering manuals
[11:46:57] <Roguish> it's hard to oversize, but pretty easy to undersize.
[11:47:47] <roycroft> if that's the primary difference it would suggest that a double nut would be advantageous
[11:47:56] <Roguish> low end ballscrews are commodities these days, really good ones are still $$$$$$
[11:48:04] <roycroft> yet _sync instructed me to get a single pre-loaded nut
[11:48:17] <gregcnc> I would too, but a good one not cheap ass
[11:48:22] <roycroft> and when i asked what the difference was he just reiterated that i should get a single pre-loaded nut
[11:48:31] <roycroft> all i'm trying to do is understand why
[11:48:50] <roycroft> a precision ground ball screw would be a waste of money on a small mill-drill
[11:48:53] <gregcnc> load and life
[11:49:06] <gregcnc> if you say so
[11:49:22] <sync_> well, you said that adjusting it would be useful, which it is not
[11:49:30] <sync_> if your screw wears that much, it is time for a new one
[11:49:46] <MacGalempsy> well, since that part is not going to be ready today, I might as well go out and work on debugging the atc program
[11:49:49] <sync_> the problem with two nuts is that the preload is put through the coupling element
[11:49:56] <sync_> so it depends highly on the rigidity of that one
[11:50:00] <roycroft> ok
[11:50:15] <Roguish> roycroft: good call. one should always consider the final use. no need to overspend putting lipstick on a pig.
[11:50:31] <roycroft> and if does not provide even tension then the pre-loading can be uneven
[11:50:40] <roycroft> which might make it a bit sloppier
[11:50:46] <pink_vampire> roycroft: it's all about what are you consider as a good finis for you, and how small the parts that you want to make.
[11:51:46] <roycroft> i'm trying to be practical, pink_vampire
[11:51:53] <gregcnc> and how is the screw being supported?
[11:51:55] <pink_vampire> roycroft: http://i.imgur.com/cAdXxPA.png all the parts was mill and drilled on the g0704.
[11:52:02] <roycroft> an x3 is not a very rigid machine
[11:52:42] <roycroft> i've been using this machine for six years
[11:52:49] <pink_vampire> the x3 it's much mure rigid then the g0704.
[11:52:52] <roycroft> i have a good sense of what it can do
[11:53:11] <pink_vampire> more*
[11:53:34] <pink_vampire> roycroft: do you want to convert a x3?
[11:53:36] <roycroft> i'm going to tune it up a bit
[11:53:43] <roycroft> yes, that's what i'm doing, pnk_vampire
[11:53:51] <roycroft> and my motors are arrving tomorrow
[11:54:01] <roycroft> i'm working my way back from the computer to the mill
[11:54:12] <roycroft> so once the motors are here, i need to start dealing with the screws
[11:54:54] <roycroft> i'll be scraping the ways and gibs, and that should improve things quite a bit
[11:54:59] <roycroft> especially the z
[11:55:00] <pink_vampire> what motors are you going to use?
[11:55:12] <roycroft> i'm using 425oz/in steppers
[11:55:25] <Roguish> roycroft: see sycn_ 's last post? he's right. one has to view the machine as a whole system. a high dollar ballscrew doesn't help much if the rest of the machine is sloppy.
[11:55:35] <roycroft> i just got some gecko 201x drives
[11:56:02] <IchGucksLive> hi from Germany
[11:56:07] <Roguish> it's easy to make a good machine. just spend time and money.
[11:56:08] <sync_> Roguish: well, even if the machine is sloppy a good screw helps a lot
[11:56:12] <roycroft> roguish: i saw and responded to his last post
[11:56:21] <gregcnc> are these x3 really that bad?
[11:56:37] <IchGucksLive> Roguish: if not special reqirerd
[11:56:42] <pink_vampire> roycroft: sounds like a nice setup.
[11:56:54] <roycroft> a machine that weighs 175kg is never going to be a rigid as a machine that weighs 1000kg
[11:56:55] <Roguish> sync_: sure, it's one link in the chain., so to speak.
[11:57:04] <sync_> yes but one of the most important ones
[11:57:30] <Roguish> and the bearings and mounts, and the motor/screw coupling, and and and.
[11:57:35] <roycroft> i'm not going to be able to hold tenths with this machine
[11:57:42] <IchGucksLive> agree roycroft can you tell this the german goverment
[11:57:48] <roycroft> i have no such expectations
[11:58:08] <Roguish> most important thing is to have FUN
[11:58:11] <roycroft> milling steel i can hold 0.001" on a good day, 0.003" on an average day
[11:58:17] <IchGucksLive> i will upload the national museum requirerments one moment
[11:58:37] <roycroft> and that's going slow and being careful
[11:58:56] <roycroft> the words "steel" and "hog" do not belong together when discussing a small mill-drill
[11:59:32] <roycroft> i want a machine whose components are fairly well-matched
[11:59:40] <IchGucksLive> roycroft: http://heimwerkermarkt-tretter.de/hp_z350.jpg
[11:59:45] <Roguish> why steppers and not bldc type servos?
[11:59:54] <IchGucksLive> the part is 9x9inches
[11:59:56] <pink_vampire> roycroft: get a nice xcarve
[11:59:57] <sync_> there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to hold 0.0004" on a small machine
[12:00:20] <roycroft> because i'm not interested in religion, roguish, and steppers vs. servos is a religious issue
[12:00:22] <IchGucksLive> the part is 9x9inches
[12:00:25] <roycroft> so i'm listening to neither argument
[12:00:28] <IchGucksLive> 95cm long
[12:00:36] <roycroft> i'm getting steppers on this machine to gain experience with steppers
[12:00:37] <IchGucksLive> aprox 50kg of waight
[12:00:43] <Roguish> not going to argue that one......
[12:00:44] <IchGucksLive> weight
[12:00:47] <roycroft> and i'll get servos for the next one to gain experience with servos
[12:00:58] <roycroft> and then i'll decide for myself what works best for me in a particular application
[12:01:14] <IchGucksLive> Steppers are the hell of the game
[12:01:28] <IchGucksLive> easy and realy working as setup is good
[12:01:36] <pink_vampire> roycroft: there is no need for servos if the steppers works for you.
[12:01:38] <roycroft> sync_: i'm telling you what my machine can do as it stands
[12:01:55] <roycroft> and i mentioned earlier that i'll be scraping the ways and gibs, which should help somewhate
[12:01:56] <roycroft> somewhat
[12:02:04] <IchGucksLive> on open Day schoolday i got Venus of milo running 0.05 above the redy mayde
[12:02:17] <sync_> well, you said that steel is an issue, but in reality it is not really different from anything else
[12:02:21] <IchGucksLive> and nothing happend in 5hr time on 1200mm/speed
[12:02:37] <sync_> with hpc cutters it is a dream to machine
[12:02:41] <sync_> even on soft machines
[12:02:43] <roycroft> the machine vibrates a lot with heavy cuts
[12:02:58] <sync_> if it vibrates a lot you are using the wrong tooling
[12:03:01] <IchGucksLive> sync_: hpc = co8
[12:03:07] <sync_> IchGucksLive: negative.
[12:03:10] <roycroft> or the machine is sloppy and not very rigid
[12:03:17] <roycroft> i'll say one more time
[12:03:33] <roycroft> i expect performance to improve when i disassemble and scrape the ways and gibs
[12:03:52] <roycroft> the x3, like most machinery coming out of china, is more of a kit than a finished product when delivered
[12:03:55] <sync_> you can also easily change your tooling and not do that and get improved performance
[12:04:04] <sync_> I did that before I scraped my machine
[12:04:06] <Roguish> roycroft: just ran across this: http://machinedesign.com/archive/single-or-double-nut-ball-screw
[12:04:09] <roycroft> i never fine-tuned it when i got it
[12:04:10] <sync_> and it got me by for some time
[12:04:27] <pink_vampire> roycroft: if it vibrate, I think you climb, try to go the other way with the cutter,
[12:04:38] <roycroft> thanks, roguish
[12:04:52] <roycroft> it vibrates with both climb and conventional milling
[12:04:57] <roycroft> primarily the head
[12:05:15] <roycroft> and if i lock down the head it vibrates less
[12:05:18] <pink_vampire> what material?
[12:05:19] <Roguish> notice where the article is from. Steinmeyer. a very good german company.
[12:05:33] <roycroft> if i tighten the z gib any more than i already have it's difficult to move the head
[12:05:53] <roycroft> primarily steel, pink_vampire
[12:06:08] <pink_vampire> what steel..
[12:06:22] <roycroft> usually 1018
[12:06:26] <pink_vampire> mild?
[12:06:27] <roycroft> sometimes tool steel
[12:06:28] <pink_vampire> ok
[12:06:30] <roycroft> sometimes ss
[12:06:41] <IchGucksLive> 2378 or 2080
[12:06:53] <IchGucksLive> the hell of bitbrekers
[12:07:01] <pink_vampire> what type of tool?
[12:07:03] <roycroft> i'll be working with 304 a lot more in the future though
[12:07:09] <IchGucksLive> but on punchtooling the best to go
[12:07:32] <roycroft> just about any tooling, pink_vampire
[12:07:54] <IchGucksLive> pink_vampire: is your mashine now runing as you like
[12:08:01] <pink_vampire> hss is almost hard as SS and tool steel. so it not the best for cutting them.
[12:08:06] <pink_vampire> IchGucksLive: yes!
[12:08:11] <pink_vampire> I love it!
[12:08:16] <IchGucksLive> ;-)
[12:08:39] <IchGucksLive> even better then you expected pink_vampire
[12:08:40] <pink_vampire> and ALL thanks to youuuuu IchGucksLive1
[12:08:57] <pink_vampire> did you saw the part that I made?
[12:09:04] <IchGucksLive> yes
[12:09:08] <pink_vampire> http://i.imgur.com/PBnxQbK.png
[12:09:12] <pink_vampire> this one ^
[12:09:31] <pink_vampire> smooth as glass
[12:10:05] <IchGucksLive> you are going to be a real craftsman at one time
[12:10:23] <IchGucksLive> ask local schools on teatching
[12:11:14] <pink_vampire> I'm using the best teacher in the world YouTube :)
[12:11:25] <Mac-Mill> error: turret-index-enable cannot add I/O pin hm2...index-enable, it already has an outpin. any solutions here?
[12:11:31] <IchGucksLive> lots of fakenews there
[12:12:11] <gregcnc> fakenews makes the world go round, just as well as any other
[12:12:14] <archivist> Mac-Mill, that is telling you one output per net
[12:12:17] <IchGucksLive> Mac-Mill: you have already a pin link in your setup
[12:12:18] <roycroft> you mean alternative knowledge, ichguckslive
[12:12:44] <IchGucksLive> Mac-Mill: use AND OR2
[12:12:56] <gregcnc> celebrity news is much more important anyway
[12:13:15] <Mac-Mill> the index-enable is suppose to be I/O so im trying to send it
[12:14:00] <Mac-Mill> send an output from classicladder to reset it
[12:14:14] <archivist> Mac-Mill, only allowed to do it once, see where your other output is
[12:15:30] <Mac-Mill> i was under the assumption that it self resets, then one needs to signal it to reset the counter on the next rising edge
[12:16:39] <cradek> classicladder doesn't have IO pins
[12:17:13] <cradek> the only thing that resets index-enable is getting an index
[12:17:35] <Mac-Mill> ok. I will just use reset on the rising edge
[12:19:33] <roycroft> that was an interesting argicle, roguish
[12:20:04] <roycroft> it does not conclude that either a single nut or double nut configuration is inherently superior, though
[12:20:21] <sync_> also consider that it talks about proper screws
[12:20:27] <sync_> and not cheap china screws
[12:21:30] <Roguish> keep it real. do the best you can, and don't have too much remorse. have fun.
[12:21:52] <roycroft> putting $2000 worth of ball screws in a $1200 machine when one does not need ultra precision doesn't seem wise to me
[12:22:45] <sync_> it's not like you cannot ballscrews that are preloaded for less than $2000
[12:23:34] <Roguish> high precision machines are kept in environmental controlled rooms, have correction factors for most everything, have temp controlled coolants circulating every where, even through the ball screws and ball nuts, and cost cubic dollars.
[12:23:57] <roycroft> referring the aforementioned article from steinmeyer, both single nut and double nuts can be forms of preloading
[12:24:39] <archivist> correction is available in linuxcnc for screw error
[12:24:47] <roycroft> i'm not trying to be argumentive, sync_, but i still do not understand how there is an inherent advantage to a single nut vs. double nut configuration
[12:25:02] <roycroft> other than that a single nut is generally more compact than a double nut
[12:25:09] <roycroft> yes, archivist
[12:25:26] <Roguish> i Westinghouse had a 200" gear hob that held a couple of thousands across the whole thing, and it was build in the 50's (maybe 40's)
[12:25:40] <roycroft> what i'm seeing regarding the screws that i'm anticipating purchasing is "china bad. spend lots of money for not china"
[12:25:49] <IchGucksLive> on low speed TR screaws are also good to go
[12:25:53] <roycroft> i don't care where they're from
[12:26:02] <IchGucksLive> 3m leadscrew less then 40USD
[12:26:04] <roycroft> i don't care that they may not be the most precision screws one can get
[12:26:14] <sync_> it doesn't matter where they are from if they are good quality, what matters is that they have no lash
[12:26:31] <roycroft> i'm trying to understand if there is some real advantage to purchasing a single pre-loaded nut vs. pre-loading by using a double nut
[12:26:53] <roycroft> and while i have a better understanding now of how they work, i don't see any difference in how precise they can be
[12:27:27] <IchGucksLive> roycroft: for standard use you do not need ballscrews
[12:27:34] <Roguish> https://tech.thk.com/en/products/pdf/en_b15_069.pdf
[12:27:53] <sync_> IchGucksLive: you do, otherwise you are constantly adjusting nuts
[12:27:55] <sync_> or have backlash
[12:28:14] <IchGucksLive> sync_: i do not see this
[12:28:22] <IchGucksLive> i do messure once a year
[12:28:45] <IchGucksLive> or if i got in trouble as high usige
[12:29:18] <IchGucksLive> the precision TR20x4 are less then 0.05mm lash and plasma compensates it perfect
[12:29:43] <sync_> even 0.01mm of lash is too much
[12:29:49] <roycroft> the acme screws in my x3 are fairly sloppy
[12:30:01] <roycroft> i don't want to mess with them
[12:30:13] <roycroft> i can get reasonable quality ball screws inexpensively
[12:30:14] <IchGucksLive> the axis hal backlash compensation workes great on this
[12:30:28] <sync_> what about 3d contouring
[12:30:43] <sync_> you will always be banging in the backlash
[12:30:58] <pink_vampire> roycroft: http://www.migration.g0704.com/Shop_Info.html#ballscrews
[12:31:06] <IchGucksLive> even the old "x3" from university with a selfmade ballscrew on 0.4mm can make bearings on linuxcnc
[12:31:10] <roycroft> i'm not convinced that the alternative to high dollar, high precision ball screws is to stick with the sloppy acme screws
[12:31:11] <pink_vampire> here you have all the info about that
[12:32:15] <roycroft> that link suggests that i get exactly what i'm considering, pink_vampire
[12:32:20] <roycroft> even using the same vendor
[12:33:04] <pink_vampire> this is the kit that I've used in my g0704 http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/g0704-kit/new-g0704-cnc-update-machine-ballscrew-kit-with-nut
[12:33:24] <pink_vampire> it's the same nuts that you show but single.
[12:33:43] <pink_vampire> I think they ok~.. not very good.
[12:34:41] <pink_vampire> roycroft: this is a mild steel parts that I made http://i.imgur.com/d5LsmRy.png
[12:35:12] <pink_vampire> the V block was not easy to machine.
[12:35:24] <pink_vampire> I think it's tool steel.
[12:35:34] <roycroft> it seems to me that if there are any irregularities in the leadscrew itself then the preloading of a double nut configuration could vary slightly, as there are 2 contact points with one section of the lead screw and the other 2 points of contact on another section
[12:35:36] <pink_vampire> the hex is cold rolled steel
[12:35:53] <roycroft> vs. a single nut configuration where all 4 contact points are at the same leadscrew position
[12:36:58] <Holzwurm> Hello, its possible to read a signal on an inputpin and when the signal is not there a message on the display is shown?
[12:37:23] <roycroft> or, should i say, the contact points are in closer proximity with a single nut configuration vs. double nut?
[12:38:20] <roycroft> even with a single nut, if the width of the lead screw groove varies (or the diameter of the screw), then the pre-loading can also vary
[12:38:42] <IchGucksLive> Holzwurm: warumm nicht eine grosse LED auf ROT setzen
[12:38:54] <roycroft> but that would be less when the 4 contact points are in very close proximity vs. having two of them a centimeter or two distant from the other two
[12:38:55] <IchGucksLive> in einem seitenpanel
[12:42:18] <pink_vampire> roycroft: the dual nut with the spring are allow some backlesh but you are hope that the spring will correct that. BUT the one without the spring + over size balls will reduce the backlesh permanently
[12:50:43] <IchGucksLive> the conversion is damm cheep
[12:51:10] <IchGucksLive> from china here ts up to 12 weeks o coustom
[12:54:41] <IchGucksLive> chopper79: did it work
[12:55:55] <gregcnc> roycraft type of ball nut isn't related to accuracy, screw grade determines that
[12:58:47] <IchGucksLive> gregcnc: is 7 good to go
[12:58:52] <gregcnc> hah
[12:59:02] <IchGucksLive> screw grade
[12:59:05] <gregcnc> for wood
[12:59:14] <archivist> shite grade
[12:59:14] <IchGucksLive> no AL
[12:59:53] <gregcnc> it may be depends on your tolerances and expectations
[13:00:25] <archivist> UK seller does a router with C6 and charges 1000 £ and claims silly accuracy
[13:00:42] <archivist> 10000 4 zeros
[13:02:33] <IchGucksLive> il keep makin lower then 40cm on tr12x3-- 60cm on TR16x4 -- 120cm tr20x4 then above 150cm i use rackpinion
[13:03:09] <IchGucksLive> no hwin only SBR or homemade bearing
[13:03:43] <IchGucksLive> hole 28H7 is 1min to go
[13:04:00] <IchGucksLive> the bearing on 16mm C53 is 2Euros
[13:04:45] <roycroft> let me offer a bit of personal perspective, so that it's easier for folks to understand where i'm coming from and why i ask the questions i ask
[13:04:46] <IchGucksLive> so the 600mm axis bearing is at less then 30Ueuros
[13:04:56] <roycroft> a few years ago i started a machining program at a local community college
[13:05:37] <roycroft> the first two years were pretty standard stuff - using hand tools, learning to machine on the engine lathe and bridgeport-type vertical mills, a bit of surface grinding and heat treating
[13:05:40] <roycroft> the usual
[13:05:46] <roycroft> making tools and the like
[13:05:50] <roycroft> i went through all of that
[13:06:02] <roycroft> year 3 was about machine design
[13:06:07] <IchGucksLive> Bsics are almost best
[13:06:09] <roycroft> either rebuilding a machine or building a new machine from scratch
[13:06:15] <roycroft> the 4th year is about cnc operations
[13:06:25] <roycroft> unfortunately, i suffered an injury after the second year
[13:06:33] <IchGucksLive> cnc is here in 2nd grade
[13:06:33] <roycroft> and was unable to complete the program after that
[13:06:52] <roycroft> so what i'm trying to do now is essentially complete the 3rd and 4th year of the program on my own
[13:06:52] <gregcnc> find the books and do it on your own
[13:07:04] <IchGucksLive> i did almost 40years in that sector education
[13:07:28] <IchGucksLive> its getting cheeper adnd cheeper and more precise
[13:07:31] <roycroft> and that's why i am trying to understand what i'm doing and come to my own conclusions on things
[13:07:37] <roycroft> instead of just doing things by rote
[13:07:49] <IchGucksLive> best to go
[13:07:50] <roycroft> and being told "do it this way" without further explanation
[13:08:05] <roycroft> i say this because i feel as though sometimes i come across as confrontational
[13:08:16] <roycroft> if i do, it's just because i'm trying to understand things
[13:08:17] <IchGucksLive> make expiriance on 200 oz up to 1200 oz
[13:08:18] <roycroft> not just do stuff
[13:08:42] <gregcnc> I always try to understand the industry accepted conclusion and work from there, unfortunately this takes a lot of research
[13:08:50] <IchGucksLive> drawing is one thing +- is the other
[13:08:53] <roycroft> and since i mix of formal education and street knowledge, it might be easy for folks to assume i know things i don't
[13:09:22] <IchGucksLive> i start by calculating force on bearings
[13:09:34] <roycroft> so please don't take offense or think i'm dismissive or ungrateful when i challenge some of the advise offered me here
[13:09:37] <gregcnc> a single ballscrew engineering manual puts more knowledge in your hands that a hundred questions on a forum
[13:09:42] <roycroft> it really is just that i'm trying to better understand things
[13:09:55] <IchGucksLive> Fschnitt= K*b*h^(1-mc)*kc1
[13:10:26] <IchGucksLive> 10MM cutter KorrekturFactor K=Kvc*ky*Ksch*Kver
[13:10:36] <roycroft> and while i fancy myself a master of the obvious, sometimes i do miss the most obvious things
[13:10:37] <IchGucksLive> h= 0,2mm
[13:10:50] <IchGucksLive> Kvc= 2.1/(vc ex(0.15) 0.15 2schneider 2.1 Korrektur 60m/min VC Holz kvc=1.15
[13:10:51] <IchGucksLive> Ksch = 1,0 für VHM, 1,2 für HSS und 0,9 für Keramikschneidwerkstoff Ksch=1,2
[13:10:53] <IchGucksLive> Kver = 1,0 bei neuem Werkzeug und 1,5 bei verschlissenem Schnittwerkzeug. Kver=1.5
[13:10:54] <IchGucksLive> Ky = 1- (ytat-y0)/100 mit Holz Ytat 25 yo 4 Ky=0,79
[13:11:01] <IchGucksLive> K= 1.15*0.79*1.2*1.5 = 1.64
[13:11:12] <IchGucksLive> F=1.64*10*0.2^(1-0.25)*150 = 735N =73Kg Schnittdruck !!!
[13:11:28] <IchGucksLive> so its 735N on the cutter at the max
[13:11:32] <gregcnc> axis feed force?
[13:11:43] <IchGucksLive> F1*L1=F2*L2 mit F1=7357N L1=350mm L2=86mm
[13:11:59] <IchGucksLive> 735*350/86=2994N force on bearing
[13:12:28] <IchGucksLive> 4Liniar =748N
[13:12:39] <IchGucksLive> SBR20 1270N
[13:12:49] <IchGucksLive> safty 1.7
[13:14:44] <IchGucksLive> kc1 = 150N/mm² Wood
[13:15:00] <IchGucksLive> 700 on AL
[13:15:13] <IchGucksLive> you might see differences ;-)
[13:15:36] <IchGucksLive> but you also have no 350mm on free Z length
[13:22:40] <IchGucksLive> pcw_home: is there no longer a jumper to prig the 7i92 as on 5i or6i
[13:23:16] <pcw_home> ??
[13:23:35] <IchGucksLive> if i woudt like to mesaflash the 7i92
[13:23:44] <pcw_home> 7I92 is programmed over Ethernet
[13:23:56] <pcw_home> using mesaflash
[13:24:00] <IchGucksLive> just connect on single eth to the given fixed
[13:24:24] <IchGucksLive> on my 5i25 6i25 i need to jumper for programming
[13:25:01] <IchGucksLive> on the documentation i see only jumpering on 5V and on eth connect
[13:25:22] <IchGucksLive> ut nothing for programming
[13:25:33] <pcw_home> no jumper involved in programming on any of our FPGA cards
[13:25:34] <pcw_home> (except alternate EEPROM select on some)
[13:26:33] <IchGucksLive> oh i guess im wrong its the 7i76 that needs to be jumperd
[13:27:38] <pcw_home> yes for updating firmware (also in case you set the baud rate to something funny and need to recover)
[13:28:22] <IchGucksLive> did chopper connected ypou it diddent work on his 7i92
[13:28:54] <pcw_home> I think that was straightened out
[13:29:04] <IchGucksLive> ok
[13:29:11] <pcw_home> (wrong host IP address)
[13:29:38] <IchGucksLive> i guessed that also as he dident ping at all
[13:30:33] <IchGucksLive> as forrener i needed to read more then one the documentation
[13:30:45] <IchGucksLive> as from EEprom programming and 10.10....
[13:30:49] <pcw_home> it did ping (he set his host address to so ping worked but he was pinging his host, not the 7I92
[13:31:06] <skunkworks> oops
[13:31:08] <IchGucksLive> oh bad
[13:31:13] <pcw_home> so mesaflash did not work on the host :-)
[13:31:43] <IchGucksLive> lots of beginners i include step in this issue
[13:32:00] <IchGucksLive> FIRMWARE is not EEEprom
[13:32:23] <IchGucksLive> its clear if you read carfull
[13:32:53] <IchGucksLive> the eeprom IP is not for programming in first place
[13:33:07] <roycroft> so to create a lead screw error compensation table i would need to know what the lead screw error is along the axis of the screw
[13:33:34] <IchGucksLive> roycroft: now you are going MD
[13:33:40] <roycroft> that would require my installing encoders on the axes so i can compare the stepper motor's concept of position with the actual position, would it not?
[13:33:50] <gregcnc> won't help
[13:33:56] <skunkworks> linear scale..
[13:34:04] <roycroft> yes
[13:34:13] <IchGucksLive> GN8
[13:34:13] <roycroft> a linear scale is an encoder
[13:34:13] <gregcnc> you need to measure actual table position
[13:34:28] <roycroft> "encoders on the axes"
[13:34:30] <roycroft> not encoders on the motors
[13:34:38] <gregcnc> linear scales
[13:34:43] <skunkworks> :)
[13:35:00] <roycroft> linear scales are encoders :)
[13:35:07] <gregcnc> a specific type
[13:35:28] <roycroft> and linuxcnc can handle this somehow?
[13:35:34] <pcw_home> IchGucksLive: typically the only reason to change the 7I92 EEPROM IP address is if you are running multiple cards at once
[13:35:57] <skunkworks> I have done that!
[13:36:03] <skunkworks> (just for testing...)
[13:36:07] <gregcnc> the thing is you have steppers
[13:36:09] <roycroft> i.e. i connect the steppers to my 7i76, and connect the linear scales (being very clear) to inputs on that board?
[13:36:16] <gregcnc> how mcuh resolution will you have?
[13:36:35] <roycroft> 2000 microsteps/rev, i believe
[13:36:37] <gregcnc> can you correct for it in a way that makes sesne
[13:37:00] <roycroft> i'm honestly not sure how much it will matter
[13:37:14] <roycroft> i'm looking at a machine that can hold 0.001"
[13:37:14] <skunkworks> What is the ball screw pitch?
[13:37:38] <roycroft> but when i start doing x/y combo cuts i don't know how that will work out, as i mill manually right now
[13:37:46] <pcw_home> People have done this with step motors and linear scales, it does require near 0 backlash
[13:38:25] <roycroft> 5mm pitch
[13:38:40] <roycroft> pcw_home: i'm aiming for 0 backlash
[13:38:49] <roycroft> i'm looking at screws with double nuts at the moment
[13:39:00] <roycroft> although some are trying to convince me to use single nuts that are pre-loaded
[13:39:12] <roycroft> i'm still not clear on any inherent advantage/disadvantage to either
[13:39:13] <JT-Shop> same thing
[13:39:16] <roycroft> as long as they're pre-loaded
[13:39:37] <roycroft> the only difference i can see that may be meaningful is that the double nuts are generally longer than single nuts
[13:39:46] <roycroft> and thus may be harder to fit
[13:39:54] <roycroft> but i think i have plenty of room for double nuts
[13:40:07] <gregcnc> it's just load rating
[13:40:19] <roycroft> and that's not an issue for my application
[13:40:35] <gregcnc> maybe it is?
[13:40:59] <roycroft> i can't say that i know that for a fact
[13:41:18] <roycroft> i'll just say that many other folks have done this conversion and i don't see it coming up as an issue for them
[13:41:57] <gregcnc> what size screw are you looking at?
[13:42:14] <roycroft> 16mm
[13:42:27] <roycroft> that is typically what people use on an x3
[13:42:53] <roycroft> and i believe the acme screw that's on the machine now is 5/8"
[13:43:10] <roycroft> so essentially the same
[13:43:49] <Mac-Mill> yay. the first couple steps just homed the turret! woohoo
[13:44:18] <JT-Shop> sweet
[13:45:23] <gonzo_> isn't the preloading of double ballnuts not usual;ly done with shimming between the two nuts?
[13:45:56] <roycroft> there are various methods of doing that
[13:46:10] <roycroft> shims, belleville washers
[13:46:21] <gonzo_> the place mine came from will supply a screw with double ballnuts preloaded on that screw to your spec
[13:46:30] <roycroft> i just read that some have the ends of the nuts knurled, and the end user adjusts them and then fills the gap with epoxy
[13:46:31] <gregcnc> you really don't care how it's done. What matters is the load rating and whether it meets your needs
[13:46:44] <gonzo_> some useful info there, for the nexty pub quiz!
[13:49:24] <gregcnc> basically all 16mm screws have similar ratings depending on how many active ball tracks are present
[13:49:41] <Mac-Mill> very happy about that. however, I better start preparing dinner. the wife has 2 tests today, so I promised I would prepare a roast
[13:49:59] <gregcnc> cool, video when it runs?
[13:50:57] <roycroft> the ones i'm looking at have single turn circuits @2.5 circuits/nut
[13:51:21] <roycroft> x2 since there would be 2 nuts
[13:51:41] <roycroft> although each nut would be "half loaded", would it not?
[13:51:55] <roycroft> i.e. 2 contact points per ball instead of 4
[13:53:18] <roycroft> er, 2.5 turns/nut
[13:53:34] <sync_> giving your X preload, yes
[13:53:40] <sync_> instead of O
[14:04:15] <gregcnc> Isel has a ball nut with adjustable backlash, you just crush it with a set screw
[14:04:32] <roycroft> there is quite a bit to learn about ball screws, i'm finding out
[14:05:01] <roycroft> i may be looking at stepper motors on a bench spinning around with masking tape flags for quite a while as i sort out the rest of the machine configuration
[14:05:36] <roycroft> but that's ok
[14:05:49] <roycroft> the learning is a really important part of this project
[14:06:02] <roycroft> i own two vw buses - i've been driving vws for years
[14:06:21] <roycroft> one of the things one learns early on when driving a vw bus is that the trip is as important as the destination
[14:06:39] <gregcnc> and that you have a lot of time to get there
[14:06:45] <roycroft> indeed!
[14:06:54] <roycroft> which is why you make the most of it
[14:07:47] <roycroft> these gecko drives are not going to be easy to mount to heatsinks
[14:08:25] <skunkworks> one thing to remember is you should not be depending on micorstepping for resolution
[14:09:30] <roycroft> the motors themselves do 1.8 degree steps, so 200 steps/revolution
[14:09:33] <gregcnc> yeah i was just thinking about how much torque is really available at 10x
[14:10:02] <roycroft> the lead pitch is 5mm
[14:10:15] <roycroft> so ~0.2"/revolution
[14:10:23] <gregcnc> stepper torque?
[14:10:28] <skunkworks> half stepping is about .0005 then..
[14:10:33] <skunkworks> inch
[14:10:35] <roycroft> which means i should get 1000 steps/inch
[14:10:39] <roycroft> which is what i want
[14:10:45] <roycroft> 425oz/in
[14:14:23] <pcw_mesa> that's 425 oz inch at .001" position offset (at 0 RPM)
[14:14:31] <gregcnc> you really want more resolution than that
[14:19:55] <roycroft> how does one get more resolution than that with direct coupled motors without microstepping?
[14:20:08] <roycroft> ball screws that diameter are almost always either 5mm or 10mm pitch
[14:20:22] <roycroft> and stepper motors are usually 200 steps/rev
[14:20:49] <roycroft> by "usually" i mean almost all of the ones i've found in my research
[14:21:30] <gregcnc> most have reduction
[14:21:48] <roycroft> i could do that, and am considering belt driven screws
[14:22:01] <roycroft> but i'd say the overwhelming majority of x3 conversions i've seen use direct-coupled motors
[14:22:14] <skunkworks> it will be fine
[14:22:18] <roycroft> i said earlier that i don't want someone to give me a forumla and say "do this"
[14:22:39] <roycroft> but it seems prudent to be at least aware of how folks generally do the conversions
[14:23:19] <gregcnc> it works and depends on what you expectations are
[14:23:24] <roycroft> so the question i have now is - why would i want more resolution than ~1000 steps/in?
[14:23:41] <roycroft> if my expectation is to hold 0.001"
[14:24:28] <roycroft> the other question is: why should one not rely on microstepping to increase resolution?
[14:24:54] <cradek> because it doesn't really work
[14:24:57] <gregcnc> at 10x you only have 67oz in of torque
[14:25:07] <cradek> it makes motion smoother and less likely to stall
[14:25:13] <pcw_mesa> does increase resolution but not stiffness
[14:25:56] <roycroft> meaning, effecively, that i'll be able to hit my target more accurately but not as precisely?
[14:26:00] <pcw_mesa> at 10x you still have 425 oz/in of torque
[14:26:31] <gregcnc> yes, but not at the commended position
[14:26:38] <pcw_mesa> but the that always 425 oz/in with a .001 offset
[14:27:03] <pcw_mesa> you have 0 torque at the commanded position
[14:28:07] <roycroft> but microstepping or not microstepping would not change that, would it?
[14:28:41] <pcw_mesa> no microstepping does not change the torque vs displacement curve
[14:29:03] <MacGalempsy> sweet thats going
[14:30:44] <roycroft> i guess i'm back to not understanding why i would want higher native resolution (non-microstepping) than my target resolution
[14:30:45] <pcw_mesa> think of pulling a compass needle around with a magnet (always at he same radial distance)
[14:30:46] <pcw_mesa> microstepping just means the magnet moves in smaller steps
[14:30:48] <pcw_mesa> the torque vs displacement of the compass needed remains the same
[14:31:11] <pcw_mesa> s/needed/needle/
[14:31:16] <roycroft> effectively, it's like having two magnets both pulling from different positions, no?
[14:31:28] <roycroft> and the needle responds to both
[14:31:42] <roycroft> you increase the pull on one vs. the other to effect movement towards that pole
[14:32:11] <pcw_mesa> right you can do this with 2 coils at right angles
[14:33:13] <roycroft> and i can see how doing that would smooth the movement of the motor
[14:34:08] <pcw_mesa> the takeaway is that torque vs displacement is the same regardless of ustep ratio
[14:34:10] <pcw_mesa> (not quite true for 1/2 stepping but that can be ignored as too nasty for most real apps)
[14:34:19] <roycroft> ok, i get that
[14:35:12] <pcw_mesa> so if you want better accuracy micro stepping may help a bit since at low loads the position resolution will be better
[14:35:56] <pcw_mesa> but it does nothing to change the basic stiffness (determined by the motor and current)
[14:37:07] <roycroft> i'm still not sure why i would want better accuracy than what i already have
[14:37:14] <roycroft> it meets my design parameters
[14:37:45] <roycroft> i could do reduction if i wanted that, but then i'd want to run higher voltage to the motors
[14:37:48] <pcw_mesa> higher ustep ratios also reduce resonances and noise
[14:38:00] <roycroft> sure
[14:38:09] <roycroft> and i thought that was the main advantage of microstepping
[14:38:36] <pcw_mesa> (up to about 32 usteps then there are diminishing returns)
[14:39:26] <roycroft> and the drives i have do 10µs
[14:39:43] <pcw_mesa> Gecko?
[14:39:46] <roycroft> yes
[14:39:48] <roycroft> 201x
[14:41:27] <skunkworks> you probably won't be more than 1/2 step off. :)
[14:45:15] <roycroft> it may work out just fine for me
[14:45:19] <DaViruz> i'm looking to run a mesa 6i25 with one 7i76 card, and a gecko 540 connected to the second port. is this possible?
[14:45:21] <roycroft> if not, i can make adjustments
[14:46:10] <DaViruz> pncconf doesn't let me change which pins the stepgens are connected to on the non-7i76-port
[14:46:18] <roycroft> the drives i got can handle 80v, so i could increase the voltage without replacing them
[14:47:34] * roycroft goes to lunch
[14:48:51] <DaViruz> admittedly this is my first mesa install, so i don't really know what i'm doing..
[14:48:58] <pcw_mesa> DaViruz: it would require custom firmware to have that set of breakouts (At least I don't think that's been done before)
[14:49:24] <DaViruz> oh.
[14:49:44] <DaViruz> probably simpler to just make up a cable/connector and connect the gecko to the 7i76 then i suppose
[14:50:16] <DaViruz> which also was my original plan
[14:50:27] <pcw_mesa> its not a terribly big deal, basically copy/pasting a G540 pinout section onto a 7I76 pinout file
[14:50:36] <DaViruz> oh
[14:50:40] <pcw_mesa> and re-compiling
[14:51:12] <DaViruz> that sounds easy enough
[14:51:31] <DaViruz> that would put pncconf out of the picture though i gather?
[14:53:21] <DaViruz> no that pncconf/stepconf is very useful for this machine anyway, but it would have helped me on the mesa-specific bits
[15:07:55] <MacGalempsy> for some reason I cannot get any signal to iocontrol.tool-change when I do T1 M6. any ideas?
[15:15:04] <pcw_mesa> pncconf is good for creating the basic boilerplate of a hal/ini file set but if you have a non-standard config
[15:15:06] <pcw_mesa> its just a starting point
[15:20:16] <DaViruz> i already have a config (for parport), jsut need to add/change the mesa specific bits
[15:21:20] <jesseg> Hmm, what does M2 do?
[15:21:33] <jesseg> what's it used for? or is it not even used?
[15:22:04] <jesseg> oh, M2 allows resume...
[15:22:45] <jesseg> So what's the difference between M0 and M2 ?
[15:25:01] <jesseg> M0 stops temporarily till Cycle Start is pressed, says the internet, and M2 stops the program, but allows it to be resumed with a press of the cycle start button
[15:30:46] <roycroft> the internet always lies
[15:30:50] <roycroft> so says the internet
[15:31:24] <jesseg> howdy roycroft! yeah that's the way the internet is :D
[15:32:01] <roycroft> it's a giant paradox
[15:32:31] <jesseg> but anyway sometimes it's useful :D
[15:38:50] <jesseg> I think I'll just treat M0 and M2 the same
[15:40:49] <Todd_Z> Huh??? M2 is program end, pressing cycle start after one restarts from the begining.
[15:41:34] <jesseg> Todd_Z, what platform? M30 is stop and rewind, M2 used to be stop and resume on cycle start -- for looped tape programs
[15:41:37] <Todd_Z> M0 and M1 are pause, and resume where you left off after pressing cycle start.
[15:42:20] <_methods> M2 is for subs
[15:42:55] <jesseg> _methods, interesting.. what part does it play in subs? is it a pause, or a resumable stop, or a return from sub?
[15:43:03] <_methods> subroutines on fanuc
[15:43:12] <cradek> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode.html
[15:43:12] <_methods> m2 is required instead of m30
[15:43:25] <cradek> we have this really great docs page
[15:43:39] <cradek> if you bookmark nothing else...
[15:44:49] <jesseg> ahhhh, I get it. M2 is one of those things that means about a hundred and one different things across a hundred different machines :D
[15:44:59] <_methods> yes
[15:45:34] <jesseg> which probably means it aint even used universally and I don't need to worry about it :D
[15:45:48] <jesseg> which is why I was confused trying to find a coherent answer on the internet :D :D
[15:46:04] <cradek> don't ask the internet
[15:46:06] <cradek> look at our docs
[15:46:06] <_methods> i'd follow the linuxcnc docs recommendations
[15:47:21] <Todd_Z> Many of the machine controls I've worked with M2 and M30 are mostly interchagable.
[15:48:02] <jesseg> _methods, cradek, you do have some wonderful docs there. Incidentally, I seek to grow my knowledge of CNC beyond any single machine or software package, so while the idiosyncrasies of a particular machine or software are interesting, they are not the end-all for me :D
[15:48:23] <cradek> ah ok
[15:48:31] <roycroft> i would recommend using the linuxcnc docs when running linuxcnc
[15:48:41] <cradek> I always assume people here are asking about only linuxcnc, and more general answers are just confusing. this is not always the case.
[15:49:08] <jesseg> yeah, this is the absolute best channel for having people who know CNC that I've found so far :D
[15:49:17] <jesseg> If there's a better general CNC channel I aint found it :D
[15:49:50] <roycroft> there's an impressive amount of knowledge on this channel
[15:50:37] <roycroft> from linxcnc developers to machinists who have been using cnc for decades, and machining for even longer, to vendors who make cnc products
[15:51:03] <jesseg> agreed, which is why I'm so honored to be able to ask general CNC questions even though they may not be linuxcnc specific questions :D
[16:35:48] <roycroft> the ball screws i'm looking at claim to have a "c7" accuracy
[16:36:05] <roycroft> the iso spec i'm looking at has "t1-t7" and "t10" accuracy specifications
[16:36:16] <roycroft> would c7 likely be equivalent to t7?
[16:44:05] <Deejay> gn8
[16:49:04] <DaViruz> pcw_mesa: i'm looking at the hm2 source files, and i can't figure out what the nomenclature is. for example for the G540x2 there are G540x2_34 G540x2D_34, and for the 7i76 there are even more, D_34, D_51, biss_34, ssi_34, R_34 and so on
[17:02:56] <CaptHindsight> does MSC still turn orders around as quickly as Enco did?
[17:05:09] <Nick-Shop> call by 8-9 pm and they go out that night
[17:05:23] <CaptHindsight> great
[17:05:56] <Nick-Shop> thats EST time zone
[17:06:06] <CaptHindsight> I used to be able to order items that would ship by truck the same day. Arrive by next day noon.
[17:06:07] <roycroft> mcs still won't give me my "converted enco account" credentials
[17:06:52] <CaptHindsight> if it was in stock in Indiana
[17:07:08] <Nick-Shop> they want to be sure you pay the bill in 30 days -no BS
[17:07:27] <CaptHindsight> I use CC when I order
[17:07:47] <Nick-Shop> shouldn't be a prob
[17:11:33] <MacGalempsy> just about an hour left
[17:11:41] <MacGalempsy> on the roast... so hungryyyy
[17:11:52] <CaptHindsight> anyone need some spindle or way oil? I have a full 200L drum of each
[17:12:30] <MacGalempsy> sounds like you need to get a kiddie pool and a couple strippers
[17:12:34] <jesseg> What's G36 for....?
[17:12:57] <MacGalempsy> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/g-code.html
[17:13:17] <CaptHindsight> MacGalempsy: nah, thats what the pool full of jello is for
[17:13:40] <MacGalempsy> reminds me of that seen in Strips when John Candy wrestles all those girls
[17:13:59] <roycroft> hmm
[17:14:12] <MacGalempsy> lcnc has no g36
[17:14:50] <roycroft> the wikipedia article on ball screws suggests that dual-nut preloading is generally more controlled than single-nut preloading, and results in more wear than single nut preloading
[17:14:53] <jesseg> well this cnc file has a g36 :P has to do with Tn
[17:14:56] <roycroft> no references are provided for that though
[17:15:14] <CaptHindsight> way oil is ~$150/5gal?
[17:15:24] <Nick-Shop> <andypugh> Got questions on the spindle data http://pastebin.ca/3765074 line 14, 31, are the problems
[17:15:38] <roycroft> however, some online specs for ball screws offer a single preloaded nut with minimul backlash, and a dual preloaded nut with zero backlash
[17:15:46] <chopper79> Hello all... I am working on getting my config to launch for my 7i92+7i77 setup. I used my known working 5i25+7i77 configs and changed ALL 5i92 call out to 7i92. The errors are watchdog, addf servo read and write. If I comment those out the errors migrate to the inouts and output pins. Almost like the 7i77 is not turning on so it can not see the inputs. Makes me think that something is not allowing the 7i92 to work which is preventing the 7i77 from work
[17:15:47] <chopper79> http://pastebin.com/TGdSpVhM (hal)
[17:15:47] <chopper79> http://pastebin.com/yvZS2F2f (ini)
[17:15:49] <roycroft> which would be in line with what teh wikipedia said
[17:16:14] <MacGalempsy> Nick-Shop: what is your count on the abs?
[17:16:24] <membiblio> Any Recommendation for a PC to control a new LinuxCNC machine?
[17:16:24] <MacGalempsy> you need another count
[17:16:28] <MacGalempsy> count=2
[17:16:48] <Nick-Shop> also - how did you come up with the 6000 scale - and I think the power co is screwing up - may go dark - it's hiccuping
[17:17:21] <andypugh> Nick-Shop: Just delete those lines? You aren’t using abs.1
[17:19:17] <Nick-Shop> i commented them out - thats how I have it running - just no spindle-rpm value that i can use for speed meter
[17:20:16] <Nick-Shop> i thing it was abs.0 and it failed to start
[17:20:29] <Nick-Shop> thing/think
[17:21:48] <andypugh> why have you commented out line 40?
[17:22:17] <Nick-Shop> so lnc would start
[17:22:27] <Roguish> Hey all. is there a way to get a tool diameter from the tool table using HAL?
[17:22:52] <Nick-Shop> I'll go undo 40 and get the error
[17:23:30] <andypugh> Nick-Shop: Don’t just comment things out, work out what the problem is, and fix it. LinuxCNC even tries to tell you what the problem is.
[17:24:12] <Roguish> andypugh: Hey, is there a way to get a tool diameter from the tool table using HAL?
[17:25:50] <andypugh> Nick-Shop: The problem is that you seem to be confused about what you want to call the absolute revs per second
[17:26:23] <andypugh> Why not try deleting lines 30 and 31 and un-commenting 40?
[17:28:50] <andypugh> Roguish: Doesn’t look like it
[17:31:00] <DaViruz> oh dear, i need to install ISE
[17:31:14] <DaViruz> last time i did that half my hair turned gray, and the rest fell off..
[17:32:05] <Nick-Shop> commented out 30 & 31 and unc- 40 and it starts and runs. still no spindle-rpm or rpm-abs in halmeter
[17:32:56] <Nick-Shop> from what I see in the examles I need to monitor rpm
[17:33:17] <Nick-Shop> examles/examples
[17:34:40] <Nick-Shop> the debug screen said what the problem was and I commented it out to get it to start.
[17:42:41] <pcw_mesa> DaViruz: http://freeby.mesanet.com/76g.zip
[17:43:27] <DaViruz> oh wow
[17:43:34] <DaViruz> thanks a lot!
[17:43:48] <andypugh> Nick-Shop: Halmeter should show you spindle rpm on the spindle-rpm-abs signal
[17:44:39] <pcw_mesa> I also included the changed pinout source file in case I messed something up
[17:45:47] <Nick-Shop> <andypugh> I get a 0 on both of them with halmeter
[17:46:24] <DaViruz> G540 goes on the IDC header it looks like?
[17:46:30] <pcw_mesa> yes
[17:46:51] <Nick-Shop> I get readings on spindle-rps and spindle-rps-abs
[17:47:15] <pcw_mesa> normally the file name suggests the daughterboards in GPIO order
[17:47:27] <andypugh> 41 should be using scale.0
[17:47:27] <DaViruz> oh.
[17:50:08] <Nick-Shop> ok-ill go change it right now config says it's 41
[17:52:01] <chopper79> Ok.... Checked a coulple things. 7i77 has field power and all of the correct LED are on and the feild LED is red since there is no communication from 7i92. I have verified voltage on all boards also. It has to be something in the config files that is not allowing thing to work. Not sure at this point. I seen a sample HAL file for the 7i92 + 7i77 and it shows the watchdog section commented out. So I commented mine out and still failed to find and load th
[17:53:30] <Nick-Shop> rpm-abs is now showing a value - its fluttering a little
[17:54:02] <Nick-Shop> spindle-rpm is still 0
[17:54:54] <chopper79> My 5i25 +7i77 will fail to find the inputs and outputs also when the 7i77 has no power. Which makes me wonder if I have no poer to the 7i77, but I do. I am passing 5v from the 7i92 to the 7i77.
[17:55:30] <chopper79> Checkd with DMM
[17:56:00] <JT-Shop> chopper79: you have to have field power for the I/O to work
[17:56:09] <JT-Shop> logic power does not help
[17:56:09] <chopper79> I have 24v
[17:56:33] <chopper79> My field voltage is 24v
[17:58:17] <chopper79> checked again and yes 24v on pins 1-5 and gnd on pin 8
[17:59:02] <chopper79> Jumper w1 is in default location to link VIn to filed
[17:59:04] <andypugh> chopper79: The 7i77 needs field power to make the smart-serial devices work
[17:59:44] <pcw_mesa> what is the first error you get?
[17:59:53] <andypugh> Nick-Shop: Just follow the chain, if the rps value works then the rpm valie can’t be far off working.
[18:00:44] <chopper79> hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.watchdog.timeout_ns not found
[18:01:14] <pcw_mesa> that means the driver did not load or the 7I92 card was not found
[18:02:06] <pcw_mesa> what does
[18:02:08] <pcw_mesa> uname -a
[18:02:09] <pcw_mesa> print?
[18:02:10] <JT-Shop> chopper79: check that the Ethernet cable is firmly plugged in
[18:02:27] <Nick-Shop> will do -in the morning - wife will be calling me to dinner - thanks for the help.. Besides-I'm probably going to lose power for a while.
[18:02:36] <chopper79> ok, yes ethernet cable is plugged in well.
[18:02:40] <chopper79> let me check pcw
[18:04:07] <chopper79> 4.8.11-rt7 smp #1 PREEMPT
[18:04:41] <pcw_mesa> what address is the 7I92 set for?
[18:04:50] <chopper79>
[18:05:00] <chopper79> can ping still and --hmidread
[18:05:39] <pcw_mesa> what does the
[18:05:40] <chopper79> sorry --readhmid
[18:05:41] <pcw_mesa> loadrt hm2_eth
[18:05:42] <pcw_mesa> line look like in your hal file?
[18:05:47] <chopper79> [HOSTMOT2]
[18:05:47] <chopper79> DRIVER = hm2_eth board_ip=""
[18:05:48] <chopper79> BOARD = 7i92
[18:05:48] <chopper79> CONFIG = "num_encoders=6 sserial_port_0=300xxx "
[18:06:01] <chopper79> doh
[18:06:16] <chopper79> face palm....let me try the change
[18:07:47] <pcw_mesa> ? that looks ok
[18:08:25] <JT-Shop> chopper79: did you get the board from me?
[18:10:20] <chopper79> no this is before I knew you sold them
[18:10:42] <chopper79> changed i to and same error happens
[18:10:50] <JT-Shop> I would jumper it for and follow the instructions on my web site
[18:11:10] <chopper79> I have your page pulled up now
[18:11:22] <JT-Shop> http://www.mesaus.com/info/7i92.txt
[18:12:48] <chopper79> I will change to that ip. I need to change my pc to correct?
[18:13:06] <pcw_mesa> Yes
[18:13:16] <chopper79> ok going to try now brb
[18:13:19] <JT-Shop> yes you need to set the static ip for the motherboard ethernet port
[18:15:08] <pcw_mesa> you can also test things one piece at a time with halrun/halcmd
[18:17:07] <chopper79> ok...changed the ip to and pc static ip to I can ping the board and the LED change as the ping is happening. Try to load the config after changing the ip address in the file and same errors.
[18:17:25] <chopper79> Should the ip adress for the baord be in the ini like I have it now or the hal?
[18:17:34] <JT-Shop> yes
[18:17:43] <chopper79> http://pastebin.com/TGdSpVhM (hal)
[18:17:43] <chopper79> http://pastebin.com/yvZS2F2f (ini)
[18:18:10] <chopper79> ignore the ip address in the ini...it is changed to
[18:18:51] <JT-Shop> pastebin the error
[18:19:15] <chopper79> no internet to that pc so I am typing on my laptop
[18:19:19] <chopper79> lame I know
[18:19:23] <pcw_mesa> your hal file doesn't load the hm2_eth driver
[18:21:01] <andypugh> That won’t help :-)
[18:21:19] <JT-Shop> chopper79: if you use paste.ubuntu.com no one has to watch commercials
[18:21:20] <andypugh> Good spot.
[18:21:41] <pcw_mesa> something like
[18:21:42] <pcw_mesa> loadrt [HOSTMOT2](DRIVER) config=[HOSTMOT2](CONFIG)
[18:21:44] <pcw_mesa> after
[18:21:45] <pcw_mesa> lloadrt hostmot2
[18:22:22] <chopper79> JT-Shop: I was not aware of that one or the commercials Sorry about that
[18:22:29] <JT-Shop> np
[18:22:39] <chopper79> pcw_mesa: I will try real quick.
[18:23:26] <andypugh> Which is more scary: Water at 250C and 1000PSI or molten salt at 250C?
[18:23:44] <andypugh> Or, for that matter, molen sodium at 250C.
[18:24:00] <andypugh> (Other than “all of the above”)
[18:24:13] <JT-Shop> I'm afraid I'd have to hold your beer and stand way back with the video camera
[18:24:18] <andypugh> I stil have a (small) scar from a molten sodium hydroxide bath.
[18:24:58] <andypugh> (A heat treatment bath, to clarify)
[18:25:04] <JT-Shop> andypugh: I noticed a bug in the 2.8 conversion script
[18:25:14] <andypugh> Only one?
[18:25:23] <JT-Shop> small one
[18:26:07] <andypugh> Can you raise it as an issue, to make it harder for me to forget?
[18:27:36] <JT-Shop> yea, it's a simple one needs to add [DISPLAY]MAX_LINEAR_VELOCITY OR [TRAJ]MAX_LINEAR_VELOCITY
[18:31:33] <chopper79> Ok... added that. 3 errors now
[18:31:34] <chopper79> waitpid failed /usr/bin/rtapi_app hm2_eth
[18:31:34] <chopper79> /usr/bin/rtapi_app excited before becoming ready
[18:31:34] <chopper79> insmod for hm2_eth failed
[18:42:46] <JT-Shop> say goodnight Gracie
[18:48:20] <chopper79> Ok I removed the config=[HOSTMOT2](CONFIG) from the loadrt line and it attempts to launch. LED flicker and the manual tool display pops up in the lower right corner. Then errors out. I will copy the error and then paste bin it (without commercials)
[19:07:15] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop: goodnight johnboy ;)
[19:18:29] <chopper79> Sorry about the delay.... There is no information under debug on the error screen. It does say something about run latency test and resolve before continuing. Seems that I may have a latency issue then.
[19:30:39] <chopper79> I set latency results for servo thread very high and the latency error cleared (just doing it for testing). Now there are no errors under debugging. Not sure where is the issue is. brb
[19:35:36] <pcw_mesa> did you run the latency test?
[19:36:19] <Tom_L> zeeshan!!
[19:36:42] <zeeshan> hi
[19:36:52] <zeeshan> sup
[19:36:54] <Tom_L> how's the lathe project progressing?
[19:36:59] <zeeshan> 0
[19:37:00] <zeeshan> :P
[19:37:15] <Tom_L> hydraulic pump rebuilt?
[19:37:17] <zeeshan> all the hydraulic seals i ordered were wrong
[19:37:19] <Tom_L> or just the motor..
[19:37:21] <zeeshan> they sent me the wrong stuff
[19:37:25] <Tom_L> aarg
[19:40:17] <zeeshan> whats new with you
[19:40:21] <zeeshan> someone bought the mesa card on ebay
[19:40:22] <zeeshan> :D
[19:44:04] <chopper79> pcw_mesa: yes I did and the results are horrible. Max jitter 2501634ns on servo thread
[19:44:33] <pcw_mesa> OK so thats no good
[19:44:55] <chopper79> which is making me think that is why it will not launch
[19:45:51] <chopper79> I am going to go into bios and disable everything. brb
[19:46:03] <andypugh> Latency shouldn’t stop it launching, the card initialisation largely happens in userspace.
[19:46:37] <andypugh> (Hmm, I _think_ that’s right.)
[19:53:46] <chopper79> ok...turned everything off and now latency is down to 59,642 while running 4 glxgears.
[19:54:29] <chopper79> now when I try to launch the error is...... iptables: no chain/target match by that name
[19:58:08] <chopper79> ok...cycled power in 7i92 and now the iptable error is gone and the debugging shows no error but will not launch.
[20:00:33] <pcw_mesa> Ha there's a lot of our old crap on Ebay
[20:00:34] <pcw_mesa> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mesa-Electronics-6C22-CPU-Circuit-Board-Used-/330539560832?hash=item4cf5b16f80:m:mUGcsSQ2qPDjJU4kEUAWe-w
[20:00:51] <zeeshan> lol
[20:00:56] <zeeshan> 5i25 sold on 2 days
[20:01:46] <zeeshan> you guys must be doing great as a company :D
[20:04:55] <pcw_mesa> Nah, getting too old for this
[20:05:19] <zeeshan> pcw do you have a goat farm
[20:05:20] <zeeshan> :D
[20:05:37] <pcw_mesa> Yep (though all sheep, no goats)
[20:05:50] <zeeshan> they survive in the heat of arizona?
[20:06:12] <pcw_mesa> well they are not in arizona...
[20:06:43] <pcw_mesa> but yes they are adaped to the tropics (Barbados)
[20:06:45] <Tom_L> zeeshan, not much new here
[20:06:46] <zeeshan> er i thought you guys were in arizona :)
[20:07:05] <pcw_mesa> cafilornia
[20:07:16] <chopper79> lowered latency on servo period in ini file and the error come back as.... hm2/hm2_7i92.0: error finishing read! iter=6
[20:07:38] <chopper79> so time for better MB I believe.
[20:07:51] <chopper79> ?
[20:13:09] <pink_vampire> hi
[20:13:29] <Wolf_> morning pink
[20:14:14] <pcw_mesa> chopper79: thatls probably not latency but something else
[20:15:09] <chopper79> hmm...
[20:18:11] <chopper79> Just seen this while scrolling though the error screen. Starting program display:
[20:18:16] <chopper79> Axis
[20:18:24] <pcw_mesa> also, how low did you set the servo period?
[20:18:26] <pcw_mesa> Most hardware should manage 1 KHz (1000000 ns ) OK
[20:18:27] <pcw_mesa> too low will cause the"error finishing read!" error
[20:18:50] <chopper79> Cant execue diplay program axis
[20:19:06] <chopper79> it is set to 1000000
[20:19:23] <pcw_mesa> what motherboard?
[20:20:38] <chopper79> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135339
[20:20:50] <chopper79> cdc-i/d2550
[20:25:06] <chopper79> well poop.... Just seen I had DISPLAY = Axis
[20:25:20] <chopper79> Changed to lower case a and it launched
[20:25:27] <chopper79> always the small things
[20:25:50] <chopper79> sorry to waste your guys time for my case sensitive error.
[20:26:45] <pcw_mesa> not sure about your MBs Realtek 8105
[20:26:46] <pcw_mesa> I only know Realtek 8139s, 8111, 8168,8169, almost any Intel are good
[20:27:26] <chopper79> its loaded
[20:27:47] <pink_vampire> I'm using old Q cpu
[20:27:53] <pink_vampire> with 4gb ram
[20:28:11] <pink_vampire> work just beautiful
[20:28:16] <pcw_mesa> you can get an idea of how well the Ethernet is working by looking at the read time (its in CPU clocks)
[20:28:58] <chopper79> pcw_mesa: I am still going to get me a new motherboard just in case. Still can not believe I capitalized that letter. I will check out the clocks once I find where to go for it.
[20:32:11] <pink_vampire> pcw_home: are you familiar with the mesa cards?
[20:32:30] <pcw_mesa> somewhat
[20:33:47] <chopper79> ok when I use ethtool etho | grep -i speed it comes back with 100Mb/s
[20:34:58] <pcw_mesa> better than 10 :-)
[20:35:06] <pcw_mesa> bbl dinner
[20:36:17] <pink_vampire> pcw_home: today I'm using dual LPT, with 3 servos, each servo get 1000 steps per rev. do you know if with mesa i can go up to 7axis with 8192 steps per rev?
[20:37:08] <chopper79> Time to try and get some movement on an axis. Thank you all for the help and putting up with me while I make this change to new equipment. I know I am a difficult one sometimes (first to admit it).
[20:40:33] <chopper79> skunkworks_: do you know off hand what the ppr is for the encoders on the MC-500v2?
[20:40:55] <chopper79> Google shows no information for them #TFUE-25ZD7
[21:14:16] <chopper79> Is 2000 pulse/1rpm the same as pulse per revolution? I have always seen encoders listed ad ppr not pulse /1rpm
[21:15:41] <SpeedEvil> chopper79: that is a speed encoder in principle.
[21:15:42] <chopper79> I do not hink it is, but not sure
[21:15:55] <SpeedEvil> Actually - no
[21:16:40] <chopper79> ok.. so now I need to figure out the ppr.
[21:17:26] <SpeedEvil> The only strict interpretation of that unit I can come up with is that it makes 2000 pulses on being accellerated from 0 to 1rpm.
[21:17:31] <SpeedEvil> This sounds very unlikely.
[21:17:31] <chopper79> not finding to much information on these encoders. All I have is the pulse/1rpm
[21:17:45] <chopper79> I agree
[21:17:51] <SpeedEvil> I would say it's almost certainly 2000 pulses a rev
[21:18:10] <chopper79> seems high
[21:18:26] <chopper79> maybe not though
[21:19:16] <SpeedEvil> chopper79: just measure it.
[21:19:29] <chopper79> ?
[21:19:43] <SpeedEvil> connect a LED, or whatever, and turn it slowly
[21:20:49] <chopper79> If I do that then I should see 2500 blinks on my one motor and 3000 blicks on my other two.
[21:21:09] <chopper79> I wonder how many times I am gonna have to recount the blinks...haha
[21:53:51] <pcw_home> pink_vampire: for step+dir 7 Axis at almost any step rate is possible (to ~10 MHz)
[22:02:52] <pink_vampire> pcw_home: how are you calculating the "10MHz"?
[23:53:22] <R2E4> anyone up?
[23:54:16] <Wolf_> some probably
[23:54:52] <R2E4> I got my kinematics wrong in ini file and I cannot figure it out.
[23:54:57] <R2E4> can you help?