#linuxcnc | Logs for 2017-01-25

[02:21:56] <Deejay> moin
[05:28:13] <jthornton> morning
[05:28:25] <XXCoder> yo
[07:05:00] <jthornton> creating a repository is a PIA
[07:05:55] <skunkworks> umm http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRIGGS-AND-STRATTON-8HP-PISTON-AND-RINGS-/122298923044?hash=item1c79957824:g:pJ4AAOSwEzxYbZig
[07:06:57] <XXCoder> well 99.9999% im not buying it even if its the item I need
[07:11:49] <gonzo_> all in caps and poor spelling/grammar
[07:15:11] <archivist> I found a stupid priced item where it was more used from him than new! here is another from the same seller http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Renishaw-Star-Probe-30mm-span-x-2mm-dia-/152406153388
[07:15:42] <XXCoder> fancy
[07:17:37] <archivist> that is incomplete, from maker https://www.renishaw.com/shop/Product.aspx?Product=A-5003-0076
[07:17:53] <XXCoder> very high end
[07:18:19] <XXCoder> I still wonder why ruby isnt recommanded for Al
[07:19:08] <SpeedEvil> Fails to implement certain mandatory constraints.
[07:19:09] <SpeedEvil> https://xkcd.com/534/
[07:19:39] <sync_> XXCoder: because al sticks to it
[07:19:44] <XXCoder> lol speed
[07:19:45] <XXCoder> ahh
[07:19:57] <XXCoder> so ruby reacts with Al. interesting
[07:20:04] <sync_> no
[07:21:00] <archivist> ruby is aluminium oxide hence the affinity
[07:21:26] <XXCoder> ok
[07:22:05] <sync_> you want ZrO for it
[07:22:11] <sync_> just like with your endmills
[07:22:21] <sync_> as TiN is soluble in it
[09:28:31] <roycroft> yay
[09:28:39] <roycroft> i got a good deal on a used japanese mpg
[09:29:27] <roycroft> i used to make offers slightly below the buy it now price on ebay listings, but of late i've been pretty successful offering up to 50% less than the asking price
[09:47:13] <gregcnc> yeah sometimes half buys it. Sometimes, they don't actually want an offer only BIN price.
[09:48:33] <_methods> damn i'm gonna have to start trying the offer thing
[09:54:02] <gregcnc> anyone export machined components? is there a general tarriff number for machined parts or is everything a part of something?
[09:54:58] <IchGucksLive> hi
[09:55:23] <IchGucksLive> its so cold the steppers got ice on
[09:55:47] <IchGucksLive> the normal cooling van stuck of freezing dust
[09:56:29] <IchGucksLive> world on holiday as the logs are clear
[09:56:46] <IchGucksLive> almost
[10:06:58] <MacGalempsy> hola
[10:11:54] <IchGucksLive> ;-)
[10:13:10] <gregcnc> bring your machine inside the shop
[10:19:58] <IchGucksLive> someone knows how to put mp4 videos togeter without transcoding them to ts for ffmpeg does not make mp4 files stitching
[10:31:05] <MacGalempsy> trying to start putting together the logic for this classicladder program. right now, im trying to determine if it is better to have lcnc remember the current tool, or if it is better to put the tool away before the program shuts down. any thoughts?
[10:31:51] <IchGucksLive> Mcode
[10:34:20] <MacGalempsy> ?
[10:35:27] <IchGucksLive> use a USER Mcode bevor the M30 and move your mashine to the position you like
[10:36:06] <IchGucksLive> you can calculate the offset to the G53 point so you kow the way to the REF to go for
[10:37:05] <MacGalempsy> IchGucksLive: this is about the startup/shutdown sequence for an ATC
[10:37:27] <IchGucksLive> doesent matter
[10:37:41] <IchGucksLive> your post got a END TAG M30 or M02
[10:37:48] <IchGucksLive> there you can do it
[10:38:11] <IchGucksLive> you can even set HALPINS by Mcode
[10:38:21] <MacGalempsy> so you are saying at the end of the program use an optional stop
[10:38:47] <roycroft> i'm of a mind to always put a system into a consistent, known state when doing a transition like that
[10:39:24] <roycroft> which would mean in this case always putting the tool away at the end of a program
[10:40:04] <MacGalempsy> ok. that is a good way to plan it
[10:40:25] <MacGalempsy> the reason I was asking is if the tool was manually changed
[10:40:34] <roycroft> i don't know that i'd always load a particular tool (probably a probe if i did) at the beginning of hte program
[10:40:42] <roycroft> but i'd put the tool away at the end
[10:41:06] <roycroft> and even without an atc i'd set up the logic for that, regardless of whether i manually removed the tool or not
[10:42:01] <MacGalempsy> the idea is that at the beginning of the program, the atc-is-homed criteria be fullfilled, basically to rotate and reset the count at tool 0
[10:44:57] <gregcnc> I think whether or not you put the tool away, the machine should know if you did or didn't
[10:46:48] <MacGalempsy> is it pretty easy to save the machine state at shutdown? the only thing that is worrying is if the turret manages to rotate while the machine is off
[10:53:31] <roycroft> maybe a homing switch on the turret?
[10:53:45] <gregcnc> Like an axis that could move while power is off, it your carousel should home if needed
[10:54:04] <roycroft> power failures happen
[10:54:18] <roycroft> if the power goes off suddenly you won't be able to save state
[10:54:33] <gregcnc> but if there was a tool in the spindle, and the atc home the tool is still the same so the machine tracks this
[10:54:41] <roycroft> so a homing switch and always homing at power-up would be a good idea
[10:56:20] <JT-Shop> that's what my 308 does when you home the axes it homes the turret
[10:56:39] <gregcnc> you have to make sure the machine knows which pocket to put the tool into regardless of where the carousel is
[10:57:03] <roycroft> yes, so you would have to save the state of the loaded tool as you load it
[10:57:20] <gregcnc> I think it already does that
[10:57:27] <roycroft> what if the power goes off in mid-tool change?
[10:57:50] <Jymmm> roycroft: buy a new tool, lather, rinse, repeat?
[10:57:51] <JT-Shop> what the vmc does is make a full round and notes where the home switch is to verify the position
[10:58:07] <roycroft> that makes sense, jt-shop
[10:58:13] <gregcnc> that can be messy even in real machines
[10:58:32] <IchGucksLive> till later
[10:58:36] <JT-Shop> yea, I have to take the tool changer apart when that happens lol
[10:58:49] <_methods> yeah power down in toolchange always sux
[10:58:59] <_methods> or even losing air in tool change
[10:59:05] <roycroft> jymmm: besides the possible damage to the tool, does the tool changer know which tool is supposed to be loaded?
[10:59:23] <Jymmm> roycroft: Ignore me, just a speculation
[10:59:25] * roycroft suspects that does not happen often
[10:59:55] <Jymmm> roycroft: But isn't that the job of the tool table?
[10:59:58] <roycroft> but i always consider worst case things
[11:00:47] <roycroft> yes, but if you're right in the middle of changing the tool, does the tool table think the old tool is still loaded, the new tool is now loaded, no tool is loaded, or does it not know what the hell is going on?
[11:01:18] <_methods> that's always the fun part
[11:01:31] <roycroft> more to the point, is a tool change atomic?
[11:01:34] <gregcnc> you remove the tool, issue a tool change and carry on
[11:01:42] <roycroft> and transactional, so it rolls back if it does not complete?
[11:02:00] <gregcnc> getting the tool out is the hard part as i understand it, no experience
[11:02:44] <_methods> usually getting the damn tool change arm to go the direction you want it to is the hard part
[11:02:51] * roycroft needs to plan for an eventual tool changer for his mill conversion, but will probably never install one
[11:03:57] <_methods> seems to be different on every machine too
[11:07:23] <MacGalempsy> fortunately there are a few panel buttons on the machine to get the tool out (with power of course) one drops the turret, another opens the power drawbar. I would think anytime there is a power outage, a manual procedure could be established to get things back in order.
[11:07:59] <roycroft> if not, you need more buttons :)
[11:08:34] <MacGalempsy> more buttons is always the answer :) just hook up all those mesas for 500+ buttons
[11:08:36] <_methods> there is a procedure its just diff for most machines
[11:09:16] * roycroft wonders how many control panels exist that are larger than the machines they control
[11:09:23] <JT-Shop2> roycroft: when you have time to chat about the cert let me know
[11:09:25] <MacGalempsy> lol
[11:09:36] <roycroft> i have a few minutes now, unless i get interrupted
[11:10:19] <JT-Shop2> let me go to my other shop
[11:10:25] <roycroft> ok
[11:11:04] <JT-Shop> ok pm?
[11:11:08] <roycroft> sure
[12:03:40] <MacGalempsy> in ladder, it gets confusing how the different states of each variable can initiate different outputs. any hints on keeping things straight?
[12:04:13] <JT-Shop2> never have more than one output per item
[12:04:50] <JT-Shop2> remember ladder is read all the inputs, solve all the logic, update all the outputs
[12:04:51] <MacGalempsy> ok. that was expressed in one of the plc professors videos
[12:04:57] <MacGalempsy> ok
[12:05:23] <JT-Shop2> http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/ladder/index.html
[12:05:34] <MacGalempsy> do you find it easier to write out the process in words before doing the programming?
[12:06:17] <MacGalempsy> the programming is coming along slowly, but your turret-sim example is helping me work thru it
[12:07:48] <MacGalempsy> i guess the tricky part is using later steps to break earlier steps
[12:08:09] <MacGalempsy> but that kind of goes with you reading everything then solve the logic
[12:22:00] <IchGucksLive> hi ;-)
[12:24:51] <MacGalempsy> hi
[12:28:14] <IchGucksLive> MacGalempsy: todays cool work https://youtu.be/sqx9w80diKo
[12:29:13] <IchGucksLive> MacGalempsy: gracy milling
[12:29:34] <IchGucksLive> free clamping 1mm bit hell of a speed
[12:29:57] <IchGucksLive> TR leadscrews all you dont want but the final is very good
[12:30:01] <MacGalempsy> that looks great. did you get the code from deskproto?
[12:30:13] <IchGucksLive> yes
[12:30:21] <MacGalempsy> heh. im psychic
[12:30:21] <IchGucksLive> its the demo
[12:30:50] <IchGucksLive> i shoudt mail him the Video link
[12:30:57] <MacGalempsy> is this with the college club?
[12:32:44] <JT-Shop> MacGalempsy: when your first starting with ladder writing it out in english first is a big help
[12:33:15] <JT-Shop> like if i1 is on start timer t1
[12:33:24] <JT-Shop> when t1 times out turn on o1
[12:33:26] <JT-Shop> etc
[12:34:39] <MacGalempsy> so for each rung, write a statement?
[12:47:23] <necKro23> heh I totally forgot about ladder logic when I was trying to come up with a control system
[12:47:29] <necKro23> that's me, doing everything the hard way
[12:49:53] <IchGucksLive> necKro23: best to go for learning bye duing
[12:50:43] <JT-Shop> MacGalempsy: yes
[12:51:07] <JT-Shop> you can pastebin it if you want me to look it over
[12:51:35] <roycroft> that's part of why i'm doing my cnc conversion from the conputer to the mill, and not vice-versa, ichguckslive
[12:51:41] <MacGalempsy> ok. its not to the sharing point, but i am using powerpoint to draw up my ladders.
[12:52:00] <roycroft> the primary reason is so that when i get to replacing the screws on my mill everything else will be down and downtime will be minimal
[12:52:24] <roycroft> but also, i want to have some hands-on experience with the software and my actually hardware before i hook the motors up to the mill
[12:52:40] <MacGalempsy> since I dont have a board at the moment to test these things, it will all be on "paper" until it comes back
[12:52:49] <roycroft> i'm good at book learning, but hands on is also necessary
[12:53:15] <roycroft> when i was in college i did work study in the chemistry lab - i was a chem major at the time
[12:53:33] <roycroft> they hired a new professor who had a ms in chemistry but went to schools that required no lab courses
[12:53:39] <archivist_> have to let the smoke out for full enlightenment :)
[12:53:54] <roycroft> the prof's experience was completely theoretical
[12:54:13] <roycroft> and he was completely lost when he had to teach lab courses - i ended up doing much of the teaching
[12:55:10] <roycroft> these days i manage undergound fiber optic installations, and i get along well with my contractors
[12:55:44] <roycroft> because i worked in the building trades when i was young, and i always let them know right away that i believe that any architect or engineer should be required to work in the trades before getting their professional license
[12:56:01] <roycroft> sitting in an ivory tower does not prepare one for real world conditions
[12:56:56] <JT-Shop> I used to say the same thing about engineers when I worked in the offshore oil fields
[12:57:34] <necKro23> I'm a software developer so I feel the same way about compsci graduates
[12:57:50] <JT-Shop> one time one road the boat back with the crew and I asked him why and he said he just wanted to see how it was... I said now that you've see you can get off
[13:01:49] <roycroft> when i hire a comp sci major i figure there's a good six months of unlearning to do before the person is the least bit useful
[13:05:52] <IchGucksLive> roycroft: you may hire the wrong person
[13:07:33] <roycroft> it's just how things are
[13:07:40] <roycroft> and it's actually good, generally
[13:08:18] <roycroft> i don't believe that universities should be vocational training institutions - that is what apprenticeships are for
[13:08:20] <IchGucksLive> agree
[13:09:06] <roycroft> getting a well-rounded liberal arts education and heavy theory in one's major field makes for a person with better long-term potential than just giving them specific training
[13:09:25] <roycroft> but it does not prepar the person to work in the real world on day one after graduating
[13:09:42] <roycroft> so those six months of useless is more like a shortened apprenticeship
[13:10:45] <roycroft> i also don't believe, btw, that many jobs that require a college degree actually should require a college degree
[13:10:54] <roycroft> a ups driver, for example, does not need a college degree
[13:11:09] <roycroft> but it's an easy way for ups to weed folks out
[13:11:40] <roycroft> we've lost respect for skilled tradespeople in this country
[13:11:49] <roycroft> and place too much importance on a diploma
[13:12:31] <roycroft> and then the democrats wonder how trump got elected
[13:12:44] <roycroft> they ran an elitist campaign, while he talked to the working class
[13:15:51] <IchGucksLive> a collage degree needs to save money even on ups
[13:16:49] <roycroft> i used to know a ups hr person
[13:17:05] <roycroft> she said they had two criteria that they used that weeded out most of the folks who would not work out
[13:17:13] <IchGucksLive> im off BBQ at -6deg C
[13:17:18] <roycroft> the first was the requirement of a college degree
[13:17:23] <roycroft> they don't care what field
[13:17:28] <IchGucksLive> the meet is smelling even towards the office
[13:17:36] <IchGucksLive> GN8
[13:17:37] <roycroft> they want to see a degree as that indicates the person can complete a long term goal
[13:17:53] <roycroft> the second is that they instruct the person to wear brown shoes to the interview
[13:18:02] <roycroft> anyone who doesn't is disqualified
[13:18:11] <roycroft> this demonstrates the ability to understand and follow instructions
[13:20:33] <Wolf_> yet they still have problems dropping packages at the correct address…
[13:24:05] <MacGalempsy> roycroft: that is what I was thinking. complete long term goals, but also there is a routine of getting out of bed and showing up for class.
[13:25:06] <MacGalempsy> i guess that is a minor step of the long term goal. my first boss out of college said the degree just showed I was a trainable monkey
[13:33:45] <roycroft> macgalempsy: i see their point
[13:34:04] <roycroft> but requiring someone to spend 4 years getting a degree and going into debt for the next 30 years to pay for it seems silly
[13:34:31] <roycroft> when ups could just hire the person provisionally at an entry level wage, and see how the person works out
[13:34:36] <MacGalempsy> yeah, i probably wouldnt hire someone unless they worked their way thru, just kind of personal bias
[13:36:57] <roycroft> i don't mind the brown shoes thing at all though
[13:36:58] <roycroft> if i did not have a pair of brown shoes i could at least go to the goodwill and buy some for $10 for the interview
[13:36:58] <roycroft> or buy a $5 rattle can of brown paint and spray a pair of shoes :)
[13:37:15] <MacGalempsy> :)
[13:39:02] <Jymmm> http://www.mekanizmalar.com/
[13:39:22] <Jymmm> archivist_: You might like that site ^^^
[13:43:50] <archivist_> trump orders wall...mexicans build more tunnels :)
[13:46:41] <JT-Shop> all they need to do is figure out how to get a TBM to work in sand
[13:47:31] <MacGalempsy> we have some pretty sophisticated tunnel senseing devices
[13:57:02] <roycroft> we haven't filled in the existing tunnels yet
[13:57:28] <roycroft> and net migration has been southward, not northward, for some years now
[13:57:36] <roycroft> the whole idea is idiotic
[13:58:00] <roycroft> macgalempsy: it doesn't do any good to be able to find tunnels if you don't do anything about them once you find them
[13:58:02] <jdh> most the stories of crippling student debt($100k+) that I have seen eventually say thw debt was incurred in grad school where they borrowed for their entire lifestyle
[13:58:07] <roycroft> we know of dozens of tunnels that have not been filled in
[13:59:37] <roycroft> sadly, since net migration is southward, the tunnels are used more for smuggling drugs and other contraband than for smuggling people
[13:59:46] <roycroft> and i'm more worried about the drugs being smuggled in
[14:03:15] <_methods> well that should be easier now with a freeze on govt jobs
[14:03:33] <_methods> especially since i believe the border patrol agents are federal jobs lol
[14:03:44] <roycroft> yes
[14:03:56] <roycroft> the tsi gag order will be next
[14:04:18] <roycroft> rather, all of homeland security
[14:07:04] <MacGalempsy> I dont recall the freeze being permanent, probably just long enough to get things sorted out, as to what positions are needed and what positions are fluff
[14:07:42] <roycroft> hiring freezes like that are not uncommon at the beginning of a new administration
[14:07:56] <roycroft> it's the gag orders that are of concern
[14:10:06] <MacGalempsy> the gag order seems to be so everyone is on the same page, my buddy at the DOI mentioned there are too many people with their own agendas
[14:10:16] <MacGalempsy> he didnt think it would last forever
[14:11:28] <roycroft> only until he fires everyone with a clue
[14:12:00] <roycroft> not making changes to a website can be within the purvue of "everyone on the same page"
[14:12:42] <roycroft> removing all information about global climate change and threatening anyone who might reinstate any of it does not
[14:12:55] <roycroft> and btw, does anyone really want an administration of yes people?
[14:13:10] <MacGalempsy> it goes back to your wear brown shoes to the interview
[14:13:33] <roycroft> not in this case
[14:13:39] <MacGalempsy> yes people are what we just got rid of, thats why its such a mess
[14:14:00] <roycroft> one of the major functions of the epa has just been completely disappeared
[14:14:22] <MacGalempsy> which function is that?
[14:14:33] <roycroft> policy that relates in any way to global climate change
[14:14:36] <Wolf_> tweets?
[14:15:03] <roycroft> which includes any regulations related to carbon emissions
[14:15:09] <MacGalempsy> global climate change has been going on since the formation of the planet
[14:15:35] <roycroft> not even remotely at the level that it has been since industrialization, and very specifically since the 1990s
[14:15:38] <MacGalempsy> one volcano eruption will do more damage than anthroporgenic causes ever could
[14:15:56] <roycroft> that's not what the data indicate
[14:16:08] <roycroft> the data that 99+% of the scientific community accept as valid
[14:16:39] <MacGalempsy> i disagree, look at the CO2 levels on this chart of geologic time http://www.biocab.org/Geological_Timescale.jpg
[14:17:18] <Jymmm> 99% of the community also believed the world was flat =)
[14:17:19] <MacGalempsy> the purple line is CO2
[14:17:33] <roycroft> that is a horrible, extremely misleading graph
[14:17:47] <MacGalempsy> how so? its based on long term science?
[14:18:00] <roycroft> because of the extreme distortion of scale
[14:18:22] <roycroft> that graph would indicate to the lay person that global temperature swings widely on a regular basis
[14:18:24] * Jymmm hands MacGalempsy a trebuchet
[14:18:34] <MacGalempsy> it does
[14:18:40] <roycroft> it takes somewhat careful scrutiny to see that it actually varies very little
[14:19:25] <roycroft> www.roycroft.us/earth_temperature_timeline.png is much more to scale, by orders of magnitude
[14:19:36] <roycroft> be prepared for a lot of zooming :)
[14:19:48] <roycroft> and it's the very bottom of that graph that indicates what is happening now that is of concern
[14:20:02] <MacGalempsy> you can look at it as if global limestone production is up, then we are decreasing atmospheric CO2, when it is down more is occurring
[14:21:08] <MacGalempsy> when you are trying to compare 20000 years in a time frame of 4.6 billion years, you are inherantly biasing yourself
[14:22:00] <MacGalempsy> its like saying people are causing it to be cold outside in the winter, and then causing it to be hot outside when its summer
[14:22:26] <roycroft> not really
[14:22:48] <roycroft> the rise in sea level will affect us in the short term
[14:23:09] <roycroft> the migration of cool crop and warm crop growing zones will affect us in the short term
[14:23:30] <Nick-Shop> Any way of improving the tuning on Lathe Axis? http://imgur.com/a/bGU5W
[14:23:32] <roycroft> there are a lot more people on this planet than there were in previous periods of significant climate change
[14:23:41] <roycroft> it's not as easy for folks to move north or south now
[14:23:50] <roycroft> but we're getting pretty off-topic here
[14:24:04] <roycroft> and probably annoying some of the channel members
[14:29:24] <roycroft> note, btw, that the temperature range in that biocab.org chart is approximately the same as in mine
[14:29:37] <roycroft> the first one has a total range of 10c, mine is 8c
[14:29:46] <roycroft> yet they look vastly different
[14:30:45] <JT-Shop2> Nick-Shop: I tried to look at your plot but all the ads made me run away
[14:33:33] <MacGalempsy> probably because your chart represents 20000 years and that chart represents 4.6 billion years.
[14:36:10] <SpeedEvil> I suggest that absent a linuxcnc climate controller this may be off topic.
[14:39:48] <miss0r> I now have a nice oven here that goes up to 1200degrees celsius. Time to harden stuff... if I can get it working :D
[14:41:06] <JT-Shop2> I use imagebin.ca and use the direct link to your photo
[14:41:37] <roycroft> as a final word, i'll repeat that is exactly my point, macgalempsy - that your chart is so compressed it severely distorts the information it is trying to present
[14:41:58] <roycroft> you might read some of the books by edward tufte on the visual presentation of information some time if you have a chance
[14:45:37] <Nick-Shop> <JT-Shop2>I'll give it a try - be back
[14:49:49] <Nick-Shop> <JT-Shop2>Try this one https://imagebin.ca/v/3A8Y6u4httVw
[14:50:57] * Loetmichel just sists in the barely bearable hot batthub wit eucalyptus oil. that flu has to cease now... Also EVERY fu**** time i use that designated bathtub laptop i have to update steam, then elite, antivir , and windows itself... i definetly use that thing not often enough, considering how long those updates take now :-)
[14:51:48] <miss0r> 100$ for a working oven that can reach 1200degrees c, and hold a workpeice of 400x400x400 mm. YES! for once I have not bought the cat in the bag
[14:52:15] <roycroft> i have a nice little heat treating oven that i got pretty cheaply
[14:52:23] <roycroft> temperature control isn't the best
[14:52:45] <roycroft> but all i need is a k probe for my sous vide pid controller and i'll be in good shape
[14:52:49] <miss0r> Thou, I must admit, I would have liked this one to be smaller :)
[14:53:04] <roycroft> mine is smaller than that
[14:53:10] <miss0r> This has some special old danish made controller.
[14:53:30] <roycroft> it's more like 30x30x30cm
[14:53:45] <miss0r> but it does have what seems, at first glance here, to be a pretty solid controller
[14:54:01] <roycroft> what i like about it is that it has the door on the front, and it lifts off with a big handle that is above it
[14:54:17] <roycroft> much better than using a small kiln with a removable top
[14:54:53] <roycroft> the sous vide controller i have can do ramp and soak steps
[14:55:03] <miss0r> agreed. this is actualy a cheramic oven.. you know - for making clay stuff
[14:55:10] <roycroft> http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=4
[14:57:31] <miss0r> that looks like something I would consider, should this analog controller fail to deliever
[14:57:46] <miss0r> That or I will just do some arduino stuff, with parts I have laying around
[14:58:17] <JT-Shop2> Nick-Shop: post the direct link like this https://ibin.co/3A8VnayRAfja.png
[14:58:21] <roycroft> the arduino would cost less
[14:58:26] <roycroft> the auber instruments is plug and play
[14:58:39] <roycroft> and it's plenty flexible for what i do
[14:58:59] <JT-Shop2> looks like it is hunting, is it a velocity drive?
[14:59:57] <miss0r> roycroft: A friend of mine was just talking about getting an oven for hardening. He graps his phone and looks on our equivalent of craigslist. 40 minuts later we are in route to pick up a dirt cheap unit. But I must admit, I have not given it alot of thought :)
[15:00:08] <JT-Shop2> http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/tuning/servo.html
[15:00:08] <miss0r> that and I have no room to fit it in. I will have to get creative once again
[15:00:09] <miss0r> :D
[15:00:27] <roycroft> yes, mine is external
[15:00:31] <roycroft> since i use it for other things
[15:00:51] <roycroft> i built it into a case, with a power button, receptacle, and temperature probe jack
[15:01:00] <roycroft> i'll need to modify that to take a second type of probe
[15:01:24] <roycroft> it's nice to have a portable pid controller that can be used for various things
[15:01:28] <miss0r> I am having a feeling, this would do better in a shed :D
[15:01:35] <roycroft> every household should have one
[15:01:51] <roycroft> popeil's pocket pid controller!
[15:01:51] <miss0r> agreed. but since this is the only thing I have at the moment that would need it, I think I will just start with an arduino
[15:01:56] <miss0r> if anything at all
[15:02:20] <miss0r> reached 250c while talking to you.
[15:02:25] <miss0r> It is somewhat slower than I thought
[15:02:41] <miss0r> at 7.5kw it will be costly to run :D
[15:06:28] <Jymmm> miss0r: that's it? I got that right here in my pocket!!!
[15:06:53] <miss0r> What have you got in your pocket?
[15:07:19] <Jymmm> miss0r: 10.3GW of sugary goodness!!!
[15:07:31] <miss0r> ;)
[15:07:53] <miss0r> 400c now :o
[15:08:43] <miss0r> just watched some videos on a pid controller... it realy does look nice. I am going to be wanting that soon...... NOW!
[15:10:46] <Nick-Shop> <JT-Shop2>using AMC 25A20 set to current mode
[15:11:38] <JT-Shop2> if you mean torque mode http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/tuning/torque.html
[15:12:14] <JT-Shop2> I've never seen a torque drive in my life so not much help other than what I got from reading pcw posts
[15:48:14] <Connor> I picked up a 8x10 band saw.. Northern Tool brand.. probably 10-15 years old.. not sold any longer.. the gear that messes with the worm screw is damaged.. trying to find a replacement but not having any luck.
[15:50:15] <BillyBoy> Need info on
[15:50:28] <BillyBoy> Stepconf
[15:51:37] <BillyBoy> My set up is for a XYZ axis for a CNC Router, with 2 NEMA 23 motors running the X axis,
[15:52:32] <BillyBoy> On Single Parallel Port I have Pin 1 EStop Out
[15:53:30] <BillyBoy> Pin 2 X Step Inverted Pin 3 X Direction Inverted
[15:53:52] <BillyBoy> Pin 4 X Step Pin 5 X Dir
[15:54:23] <BillyBoy> Pin 6 Y Step Pin 7 Y Dir
[15:54:48] <BillyBoy> Pin 8 Z Step Pin 9 Z Dir
[15:56:01] <BillyBoy> Axis X and Y are run with GT-3 timing belts, the Z Axis is a 4 start 8mm Acme Lead screw
[15:56:57] <miss0r> oven just reached 1000degrees c. I shall deem it a success
[15:57:12] <BillyBoy> I can get the Z axis to go up and down, but the X and Y axis Freeze up
[15:57:57] <BillyBoy> the motors are trying to turn but don't move the X or Y
[15:58:58] <BillyBoy> I followed the DQ542MA Stepper drive wiring diagram
[15:59:20] <BillyBoy> The Motors are 425 oz, by the way
[15:59:23] <MacGalempsy> BillyBoy: does it seem strange that one of your x steppers is inverted and the other is not?
[16:00:00] <BillyBoy> Well, I thought one would be inverted as the face each other on the two X axis rails
[16:00:07] <MacGalempsy> oh, ok
[16:00:17] <BillyBoy> So, that would be OK?
[16:00:30] <MacGalempsy> that makes sense. without seeing the machine or a wiring diagram, it just rose a flag
[16:00:42] <BillyBoy> Cool
[16:01:41] <BillyBoy> Yeah, the Z axis goes up and down very nicely, annd it responds to the change on the Test box to speed and acceleration
[16:02:27] <BillyBoy> The X and Y motors set in one place and try to move on the belts but do not
[16:02:48] <MacGalempsy> the drives are enabled?
[16:03:01] <BillyBoy> Although I cannot say that X 2 is doinng the sme
[16:03:20] <BillyBoy> I think they are, the green lights come on on all 4 drives
[16:03:32] <MacGalempsy> ok. that seems good
[16:04:02] <BillyBoy> Now, the X 1 light is brighter than the others ????
[16:04:26] <MacGalempsy> how about changing out the leads of the working axis to the y?
[16:04:46] <MacGalempsy> take it slow, but that would at least let you verify the drives are working properly
[16:04:47] <BillyBoy> I have 2 power supplies, one for the X axis abd one for the Y and Z
[16:05:36] <BillyBoy> The Y has the same problem, do you mean the Z?
[16:06:23] <MacGalempsy> the point is to try and get the three non-movement drives to move using the working z signal
[16:06:58] <MacGalempsy> if you can get them to move, then you know the hardware is setup up correctly and you can move on to finding the software solution
[16:07:12] <BillyBoy> Do you think the belts may be a problem?
[16:07:47] <MacGalempsy> it could be the turn ratio
[16:07:54] <roycroft> disconnect the belts from the drives and see how the drives behave without load
[16:08:09] <BillyBoy> I have looked at the wiring pretty closely and they all seem ok
[16:08:38] <BillyBoy> OK, I will try that
[16:08:52] <MacGalempsy> good point. disconnect the belts to test and avoid crashing
[16:09:23] <MacGalempsy> if you want to post your HAL and INI files, it may speed up the software diagnostics
[16:09:41] <BillyBoy> Well the belts are hidden up in the channels for my C beam
[16:10:18] <roycroft> did you bench test the drives before installing them?
[16:10:49] <BillyBoy> OK, I am Totally new to this, how do I post those. Oops, can't do that as my Ubuntu does not recognize my Wifi connector LOL
[16:11:14] <BillyBoy> Actually, I did not bench test them oops
[16:11:18] <roycroft> er, the motors
[16:11:27] <roycroft> may i suggest you build a time machine, go back in time and do that?
[16:11:28] <roycroft> :)
[16:11:34] <BillyBoy> LOL
[16:11:50] <roycroft> most folks put little masking tape flags on the motor shafts and test them on a bench before installing
[16:12:40] <BillyBoy> I know, saw that but I ws confident that my wiring would be ok LOL
[16:12:55] <roycroft> and all your calculations?
[16:13:08] <BillyBoy> Calculations?
[16:13:25] <roycroft> on the bench it's easy to calculate how many steps there should be in, say, five revolutions of the motor
[16:13:40] <roycroft> you tell the motor to travel that far
[16:13:46] <BillyBoy> Well, it is a CNC router with a 30" X travel, 50" Y travel and 5" Z
[16:13:51] <roycroft> and see if the little flag turns around exactly five times
[16:14:07] <roycroft> easier to dial that in closely on the bench before you install
[16:14:16] <BillyBoy> I have those calculations pretty good except for the y
[16:14:25] <roycroft> how do you know that?
[16:14:30] <roycroft> you didn't test it, did you?
[16:14:37] <roycroft> or is this just one axis that has the problem
[16:14:40] <roycroft> ?
[16:14:43] * roycroft was at lunch until recently
[16:14:47] <BillyBoy> No I did not,
[16:15:05] <BillyBoy> X and Y have the samme problem
[16:16:02] <roycroft> i would still try to disconnect the belts, as difficult as that might be, as an initial debugging procedure
[16:16:28] <BillyBoy> OK, thanks I think I will do that tonightand see what happens
[16:17:08] <roycroft> it would both eliminate the possibility of crashing and narrrow down the scope of possible problems
[16:17:59] <BillyBoy> RE: calculations, the bottom of the set up window, Axis Scale
[16:18:17] <BillyBoy> I believe I got the X and Y set properly
[16:19:44] <BillyBoy> I am using a 3mm timing belt, 3 mm from bump to bump, so with a 20 tooth drive gear it takes
[16:20:04] <BillyBoy> a calculatable number of turns
[16:20:46] <BillyBoy> I will verify with calipers when I am rready to make stuff, but I think I am pretty darn close
[16:22:16] <BillyBoy> But the motors are turning, but the damn things are not moving. I woder if the set screws in the 20 tooth gears are loose?
[16:23:23] <BillyBoy> That might be the sound I am hearing?? They are totally hidden so I cant tell if that is the problem. They are up in the c channel to stay out of the way of dust.
[16:23:50] <BillyBoy> OK, thanks for all you help, got to run.
[16:43:57] <Deejay> gn8
[17:25:14] <MacGalempsy> more brutal than Craigslist are the Facebook sales groups. people are shameless on the zingers
[17:28:29] <roycroft> another reason to shun facebook :)
[17:29:39] <MacGalempsy> its pretty funny. some of my cousins remind me of daily op/eds, but with memes
[17:30:01] <malcom2073> Oh man people are terrible
[17:30:02] <MacGalempsy> better than reading the comics in the newspaper
[17:30:03] <malcom2073> Halarious, but terrible
[17:30:18] <malcom2073> Heaven forbid you post anything worth a half a cent less than you're asking.
[17:30:53] <MacGalempsy> the one guy obviously went out of business and is selling a bunch of anvils, like 10+
[17:32:01] <MacGalempsy> his prices seem fair, but dang those who dont like the price are brutal
[17:32:08] <malcom2073> Heh
[17:32:21] <MacGalempsy> its kind of like those people who go to garage sales and want to buy everything for a quarter
[17:32:26] <BeachBumPete> Hey Mac I finally made it to the damn Post office ;) Thanks man
[17:32:37] <malcom2073> Oh shit BeachBumPete, I owe you an email haha
[17:32:49] <MacGalempsy> no problemo. hopefully you can get it working out right
[17:32:57] <BeachBumPete> you don't OWE me nothing man LOL
[17:33:01] <malcom2073> :-P
[17:33:11] <BeachBumPete> we shall see.
[17:35:13] <MacGalempsy> malcom2073: you can send me an email ;)
[17:35:24] <malcom2073> Psh, you don't have a working mill yet
[17:35:47] <BeachBumPete> this thing is a LOT smaller than I expected it would be
[17:36:22] * MacGalempsy is patiently waiting for a card repair...
[17:36:32] <malcom2073> Heyyyohhhhhh
[17:36:39] <malcom2073> I broke the drawing, gimme a minute
[17:36:52] <MacGalempsy> malcom2073: what kind of pic did you send BeachBumPete?
[17:36:56] <malcom2073> The best kind
[17:36:59] <malcom2073> It was yuuuuuuge
[17:37:19] <MacGalempsy> oh, he means the probe.
[17:42:37] <BeachBumPete> I think you forgot the tip ;)
[17:43:02] <MacGalempsy> nope its in there
[17:43:14] <BeachBumPete> I don't see it man
[17:43:21] <MacGalempsy> each of the three rolled logs had a part
[17:43:26] <MacGalempsy> its small
[17:45:07] <MacGalempsy> its only like 1.5 inches long or less
[17:45:47] <BeachBumPete> I figured that but I just tore thru all of the paper and still found nothing
[17:45:57] <MacGalempsy> its taped to the paper
[17:46:18] <MacGalempsy> one roll had the silver part. one roll had the black part and one had the rip
[17:46:20] <MacGalempsy> tip
[17:46:46] <BeachBumPete> OOH I found it
[17:46:52] <BeachBumPete> DAMN that thing is tiny
[17:47:22] <MacGalempsy> yeah. all the other ones were too big
[17:48:23] <BeachBumPete> SWEET
[17:48:37] <BeachBumPete> now I just gotta figure out what the hell is wrong with it hehe
[17:50:20] * JT-Shop2 opens up the last bale of itch bats
[17:50:43] <MacGalempsy> yey
[17:51:07] <MacGalempsy> JT-Shop2: you throwing an open house party?
[17:57:09] <JT-Shop2> crawfish boil when I'm done
[17:57:43] <JT-Shop2> need to make a keg of beer to go along with the elderberry wine
[18:00:53] <JT-Shop2> 24 itch bats left :)
[18:01:34] <pink_vampire> https://www.amazon.com/Lukcase-Engraving-Machine-Carving-Milling/dp/B01HIQKYK4/ref=pd_sbs_469_3?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01HIQKYK4&pd_rd_r=WAJM1ZJR3WFGMJYCQTWR&pd_rd_w=ZUV0p&pd_rd_wg=DVraJ&psc=1&refRID=WAJM1ZJR3WFGMJYCQTWR
[18:01:57] <pink_vampire> any recommendation ?
[18:02:24] <MacGalempsy> yes
[18:02:54] <malcom2073> pink_vampire: You getting into engraving? Because if you replace the spindle with an engraving spindle you could probably do engraving with that
[18:03:02] <malcom2073> Low quality simple engraving
[18:03:16] <MacGalempsy> that is not a recommendation :)
[18:03:28] <Wolf_> that has a 10k rpm er11 spindle with it
[18:03:28] <malcom2073> Also replace the screws with at least acme with anti-backlack nuts
[18:03:44] <pink_vampire> I want to replace the G0704 with something small
[18:03:46] <MacGalempsy> there was one jymmm showed the other day. let me scroll back
[18:03:57] <malcom2073> Yeah but you're not engraving with a shitty chinese spindle, you'll get wobble bigger than your v-bit tip
[18:04:00] <pink_vampire> maybe the mf70
[18:04:17] <pink_vampire> or something like that
[18:04:25] <Wolf_> you have a real cnc mill, make a engraver
[18:04:35] <malcom2073> Yeah, you could build a 3020 equivalant for cheap
[18:04:42] <malcom2073> Since you can mill all the brackets and stuff
[18:04:59] <Wolf_> and you can make it not suck at the same time ;D
[18:05:42] <pink_vampire> I did a part on my machine and it was not that good
[18:05:52] <malcom2073> Then figure out what you did wrong, and make it good
[18:06:35] <pink_vampire> to make 2mm OD and 1.6mm ID 0.5mm thikness ring was super complicated
[18:07:12] <Wolf_> tube, ream, part off
[18:07:20] <Wolf_> in a lathe
[18:07:27] <malcom2073> ring sounds like a lathe job
[18:07:33] <malcom2073> You need a lathe, not a router :-P
[18:07:44] <pink_vampire> so maybe an engraver with high speed spindle will cut it better
[18:08:16] <FloppyDisk525> Small parts are some of the harder parts to make.
[18:08:19] <malcom2073> Erm, that engraver isn't suited for cutting metal
[18:08:21] <malcom2073> it's suited for engraving
[18:08:36] <pink_vampire> one sec
[18:08:39] <FloppyDisk525> Don't judge your output based on really small stuff.
[18:08:46] <pink_vampire> let me take a pic of the parts
[18:09:34] <Wolf_> making circles on something that runs on x/y axis is not the best, really small part. even worse because its going to magnify machine issues (slop in ways/ball screws/everything)
[18:12:42] <pink_vampire> the part is very small the camera on the phone don't show the details on it
[18:17:34] <Wolf_> if I was trying to make that 2mm OD, 1.6mm ID part, it would be Face, drill, ream a piece of bar stock to 1.6mm, then between centers make it 2.0mm OD, then part off that 0.5mm part
[18:18:07] <malcom2073> right tool for the right job
[18:18:33] <malcom2073> pink_vampire: That router you linked probably has 1.6mm backlash heh
[18:21:01] <pink_vampire> http://i.imgur.com/xH3bNmX.png
[18:21:20] <malcom2073> Yeah you need a lathe
[18:21:36] <pink_vampire> this is 4 parts.
[18:21:38] <Wolf_> I would find a pre made part lmao
[18:21:58] <pink_vampire> you can see the bass ring
[18:22:11] <Wolf_> I would go nuts trying to make that part
[18:22:28] <pink_vampire> the the thread on the part is M2
[18:22:29] <Wolf_> http://i.imgur.com/mJh9q2p.jpg :P
[18:22:36] <MacGalempsy> wow. that is small
[18:22:59] <Wolf_> little bigger then m2
[18:23:41] <pink_vampire> I did the die myself from a split nut
[18:26:25] <pink_vampire> but for part that made on a bench-top mill I think it's good.
[18:26:40] <MacGalempsy> pink_vampire: what is that part for?
[18:26:50] <pink_vampire> clamp
[18:26:56] <MacGalempsy> ah. ok
[18:27:15] <pink_vampire> super small one...
[18:27:17] <Wolf_> micro sized kant twist
[18:27:56] <pink_vampire> hehe yeah
[18:28:31] <Wolf_> I just picked up some more for my shop last week
[18:28:44] <Wolf_> 9” and 12”
[18:32:30] <pink_vampire> do you want to see something interesting
[18:32:59] <pink_vampire> http://i.imgur.com/w6bRXYr.png
[18:33:25] <pink_vampire> same setup, same machine.
[18:33:29] <malcom2073> So the same part from two different angles?
[18:33:36] <pink_vampire> no
[18:33:40] <malcom2073> Linuxcnc makes full multi-part assemblies, and mach3 only makes single parts?
[18:33:43] <malcom2073> What are we seeing here? :-P
[18:33:54] <pink_vampire> almost..
[18:34:04] <pink_vampire> look at the center..
[18:34:21] <pink_vampire> in mach3 the part is off center
[18:34:50] <malcom2073> Looks like a zero issue, mach3 is not entirely intuitive if you're been using linuxcnc
[18:35:14] <pink_vampire> no.
[18:35:48] <Wolf_> spot and drilled ?
[18:36:30] <Wolf_> hole looks egged, could be bit walking
[18:37:28] <Wolf_> doesn’t take much to toss things all out of wack at that size
[18:37:59] <pink_vampire> on such a small scale (the whole diameter is 4mm) the accuracy of the steps make huge difference, I think in the mach 3 was small lag and it make it a bit to the side, i try several times ans only linux cnc was able to make the pins centered.
[18:38:38] <pink_vampire> I'm talking about the pins on the top and bottom of the part
[18:38:46] * Wolf_ hates small parts with a passion
[18:39:26] <malcom2073> I like stuff large enough that thermal expansion is higher than the accuracy of my machine
[18:39:36] <Wolf_> haha
[18:39:56] <pink_vampire> i cut one side, then flip it. probe it, zero, then cut
[18:40:26] <pink_vampire> O_o
[18:41:31] <Wolf_> if I ever get my shop together the way I want, it will be cut one side, get the chain fall over to lift/flip parts
[18:43:43] <pink_vampire> what is the smallest part that you make?
[18:47:37] <Wolf_> bushing for my indicator arm
[18:47:41] <Wolf_> I think
[18:48:05] <pink_vampire> that is in the mm scale :)
[18:49:13] <Wolf_> http://i.imgur.com/EdMjrYt.jpg yeah, not really mm scale
[18:49:45] <Wolf_> it did get a m3 screw in it
[18:50:16] <pink_vampire> too meany parts in the picture
[18:50:54] <Wolf_> its the little alum part in the mag base arm with the hex screw sticking out of it
[18:51:24] <Wolf_> I’m usually working the other way around, parts too big for the machine i’m using
[18:52:06] <Wolf_> http://i.imgur.com/kYDtEtW.jpg like making a clearance cut in the X2 base…
[18:52:31] <Wolf_> still not sure how the x1 didn’t tip over
[18:53:05] <pink_vampire> WOWW
[18:53:08] <pink_vampire> I see
[18:53:22] <pink_vampire> that is crazyyy for your machine!!
[18:54:02] <Wolf_> http://i.imgur.com/HuoKKRf.jpg this wasn’t as bad but the Y carriage was still bigger then the x1 table lol
[18:57:41] <Wolf_> I’m still super proud that I got all the milling on the control panel to line up seeing I did it in 2 setups http://i.imgur.com/Y3HQkf1.jpg
[19:00:58] <pink_vampire> the stuff that you are doing with you x1 is super impressive.
[19:01:30] <pink_vampire> just that way that you are clamping the parts is more then impressive.
[19:05:56] <Wolf_> thats the real art of machining things lol
[19:09:33] <eeriegeek> how do you keep everything so clean?
[19:09:49] <eeriegeek> now thats an art!
[19:21:51] <andypugh> I was thinking I would never use the horizontal spindle on my mill, but actualy it comes in rather useful when working on parts that are too big for the machine: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipN3SW7pvviNYmnN1o9q-2zzvd7QXKZb7qrslId8G30VzQpIkFPsoZxUSqbcrMR2Ew/photo/AF1QipMVh3p1rusHowPr0qCbtN2awK7BWAKmFFFs1fUG?key=RnU5UXZLWk55WUduMlpNS1dXeXJPVVpJc3M4YnVR
[19:24:00] <andypugh> Whereas today was M2.5 screws: and small parts: https://goo.gl/photos/CBTBuxgccQ9YYCvo6
[19:28:07] <MacGalempsy> andypugh: did you mock that up in wood first?
[19:28:49] <andypugh> MacGalempsy: The casting? Not as-such. I made a wooden pattern, of course, to allow the casting to be made.
[19:29:32] <MacGalempsy> ah, ok. I was trying to figure out what the wood parts are for.
[19:30:09] <andypugh> Foundry patterns.
[19:38:29] <MacGalempsy> looks like a thouroughly good job
[19:39:17] <Frank_6> hi guys
[19:39:19] <Frank_6> how u doing
[19:39:36] <MacGalempsy> having a quite night. how are you Frank_6?
[19:40:56] <Frank_6> im kind of dissapointed with the turning job i sent to do
[19:41:09] <Frank_6> they are out on some parts by 6 thou
[19:41:28] <MacGalempsy> did you specify on the blueprints the tolerances?
[19:42:23] <andypugh> 6 thou is prety lazy
[19:43:03] <MacGalempsy> can you take them back?
[19:43:17] <andypugh> I have often had the other problem, machinist spending too long on “don’t care” surfaces. Even when I put “+/-1 1mm”
[19:43:45] <Frank_6> idk.. probably not
[19:43:54] <enleth> anyone from southern/central England around?
[19:44:02] <Frank_6> its for bearing supports
[19:44:16] <andypugh> enleth: I live there, I am not from there :-)
[19:44:24] <enleth> well, close enough
[19:44:32] <andypugh> What do you need?
[19:44:36] <Frank_6> i've read that loctite can take up to 9 thou on their web page,
[19:44:44] <Frank_6> could i get away with it?
[19:45:12] <Frank_6> its for a pulley belt reduction with pinion that engages on a rack
[19:45:29] <Frank_6> the shafts arent that bad
[19:45:30] <andypugh> If the parts are not to drawing, then get them re-made. If they are to-drawing because the drawing didn’t mention tolerances, then you could try it.
[19:45:33] <Frank_6> the supports are
[19:46:23] <Wolf_> ^ bad drawing or bad part?
[19:46:48] <Frank_6> written on the bluprint is 52.02mm for and ID and when i went there i told them to do it +.01mm -.01mm
[19:47:29] <Frank_6> i will ask over the phone, however i dont think they will admit their mistake and get the part re done
[19:47:34] <andypugh> 52.02 would normally implu +/- -.01
[19:47:35] <Frank_6> re-made
[19:47:43] <enleth> andypugh: I found a UK auction house selling a shitload of interesting stuff (cutting tools, measuring equipment, electronics, etc.) for close to nothing and I might need help from someone local with pickup, then storing it for up to a few weeks until I find some cheap shipping to the continent
[19:47:43] <Frank_6> exactly
[19:48:10] <enleth> andypugh: http://www.ppauctions.com/auction.php?id=190 take a look yourself
[19:48:30] <enleth> (that's "Engineering", there's "Electronics" in the menu on the left too)
[19:48:39] <andypugh> enleth: http://www2.ppauctions.com/auction.php?id=190 by any chance?
[19:48:44] <enleth> yep
[19:49:03] <andypugh> Thought it might be.
[19:49:25] <andypugh> Yeah, tons of stuff there.
[19:50:01] <andypugh> I know another LinuxCNC-er much closer.
[19:50:08] <enleth> most of that is in Suffolk
[19:50:16] <enleth> at least the engineering stuff
[19:50:21] <Wolf_> I wish I had more cash to waste on auction stuff…. I just started looking at whats semi local to me
[19:50:46] <enleth> some interesting electronics stuff is closer to Birmingham, AFAIR
[19:50:51] <andypugh> enleth: The problem is that I think they need collection within a day or two, and I don’t have a car.
[19:51:25] <enleth> andypugh: yeah, they don't do any kind of shipping
[19:51:44] <andypugh> http://www2.ppauctions.com/lot.php?l_id=96653&id=190&search=&cat=all&perPage=20&sort=2&thisPage=13 is cheap.
[19:52:58] <enleth> a little schaublin-ish
[19:53:20] <andypugh> Except seriously beefy.
[19:54:03] <Wolf_> like the auction I’m watching, cat 40 ER tool holders for $10 each...
[19:54:04] <andypugh> And they have that super-clever universal head
[19:55:31] <enleth> anyway, I was more interested in the small lots of tooling and some electronics like scopes, spectrum analyzers, etc., but even that has to be picked up in person, with a car, from more than one place
[19:55:35] <Wolf_> or a EDM that has no bids and is at $250 starting
[19:55:54] <andypugh> enleth: The condition say that items must be removed on a weekday. So I would have to take a day off work.
[19:56:11] <enleth> andypugh: you seem to know those guys - do they auction stuff like that regularily or is that current lot exceptionally good?
[19:56:29] <andypugh> They have similar auctions all the time. But that’s a good one.
[19:57:01] <Wolf_> maybe try calling them and see if you can arrange storage or something
[19:57:25] <Wolf_> or talk to their preferred rigger
[19:57:36] <andypugh> But I have never bid because of the “collect on a weekday within 7 days” thing. Which might be why the prices are good.
[19:58:35] <enleth> andypugh: any experience with local shipping companies that could do pickup and delivery within UK?
[19:59:36] <enleth> I've got family in Birmingham, worst case they could store a couple boxes for a few weeks, but no way they'd do pickup either.
[19:59:43] <andypugh> I don’t know of any.
[19:59:52] <Frank_6> how much would you charge/get charged for this? i paid 50 dollars http://imgur.com/a/8Ey9A
[20:00:08] <andypugh> I doubt that many shippers would turn up and collect an unpackaged auction lot
[20:00:14] <Frank_6> maybe i got robbed maybe i paid for what i get
[20:00:49] <andypugh> Frank_6: Material?
[20:00:52] <enleth> Frank_6: kinda expensive
[20:00:56] <Frank_6> 1045 supossedly
[20:01:10] <andypugh> It’s a fair sized xhink of stuff.
[20:01:22] <enleth> no tolerances of any kind stated, though
[20:01:53] <Frank_6> i told them when i gave them the drawing +.01-.01 on only 1 surface...
[20:02:22] <andypugh> I would expect the 52.02 to be 52.02 +/- 0.01 and the others to be +/- 0.5.
[20:02:50] <_methods> yeah that's a chunk of steel
[20:02:54] <_methods> $50 isn't bad
[20:03:12] <Frank_6> ye.. i got one out of 3 that is +.05
[20:03:26] <Frank_6> the other +.08 and the worst +.16
[20:04:15] <Frank_6> i think i oversized the part heh
[20:06:54] <Frank_6> is there a fix?
[20:07:03] <Frank_6> if i send it to a better place to get it to another size?
[20:07:06] <Wolf_> anyone need a grinder? https://www.bidspotter.com/en-us/auction-catalogues/comly-auctioneers/catalogue-id-bscco10091/lot-b43bdfe2-db15-42a3-b603-a70400ed83b2
[20:07:35] <andypugh> It’s the bore that is oversized? Pity.
[20:08:40] <Frank_6> yep
[20:08:59] <andypugh> Frank_6: You might have learned a $100 lesson. Put a tolerance in every dimension. But be prepared for the price to go up.
[20:09:18] <Wolf_> or, buy a lathe :D
[20:09:30] <_methods> $50 for a bad part isn't a good deal
[20:09:38] <sync_> yup
[20:09:56] <Frank_6> ill try to find a slightly bigger od bearing
[20:10:11] <andypugh> I think you could argue that 52.02 is not 52.02 if it is 52.18
[20:10:26] <Frank_6> yes ill call them tomorrow
[20:10:49] <Frank_6> at least they should get re done 1 part
[20:11:06] <andypugh> But they might argue back, and without a specific tolerance on the drawing you are not in a strong position.
[20:11:13] <sync_> 52.02 is probably also flopping in the breeze for a bearing
[20:11:29] <sync_> also are you sure that you are measuring correctly using calibrated tools?
[20:12:20] <andypugh> Even super-cheap calipers seem to be pretty much spot-on most of the time.
[20:12:25] <Frank_6> im using a mitutoyo caliper
[20:12:40] <Frank_6> very clean part and slowsly
[20:12:42] <Frank_6> slowly
[20:12:45] <Frank_6> several times
[20:12:47] <Frank_6> same result
[20:12:56] <Frank_6> digital*
[20:13:59] <andypugh> Saying 52.00-52.02 would have been better, but I think that any machinist should see 52.02 and try a bit harder.
[20:15:09] <andypugh> On an external surface you would knurl and (optionally) re-machine to rescue the part, harder with a bore.
[20:15:19] <sync_> andypugh: sure, but if I'm trying to complain to a company that they did not hit my tolerance I need to make sure my metrology is sound
[20:15:27] <andypugh> But Loctite “Bearing Fit” would probably work.
[20:16:42] <andypugh> He will need to go back and see them measure with their equipment. And ask to see their copy of the drawing, perhaps they pencilled-in the tolerance you gave.
[20:17:20] <Frank_6> nope, they gave them back to me
[20:17:32] <Frank_6> no "strange marks"
[20:17:58] <andypugh> Could be poor communications. You asked for 0.01, but that didn’t get to the machinist.
[20:18:28] <Frank_6> maybe
[20:18:30] <andypugh> You could, as a last-resort, ask about sleeving and re-boring.
[20:19:08] <Frank_6> i've found a 56mm bearing but its 1mm thicker
[20:19:29] <Frank_6> and the shaft would have to be redone too...
[20:19:37] <Frank_6> headache
[20:20:05] <andypugh> Frank_6: Where are you?
[20:21:07] <Frank_6> i feel so stupid, thats the worst part; its like i cant learn that cheap isnt actually cheap; and that i should be more carefull to who i send jobs to do
[20:21:10] <Frank_6> Argentina
[20:21:22] <andypugh> Ah, yes, I remember now.
[20:21:38] <Frank_6> in retrospective, i should have knew this was going to happen
[20:21:53] <andypugh> You could consider boring a little larger and mounting the bearings in a “tolerance ring” http://www.bearings.saint-gobain.com/solution/rencol
[20:21:58] <Frank_6> actually i did, but i still hoped that they might do things the right way
[20:22:19] <andypugh> That’s actually a fractionally better setup than a straight press-fit in some ways.
[20:22:55] <Frank_6> thats interesting
[20:22:59] <Frank_6> ill get to reading
[20:23:15] <andypugh> Your bearing supplier might even stock them.
[20:23:15] <Frank_6> but i should import those
[20:23:20] <Frank_6> dont think soi
[20:23:29] <Frank_6> they barelly have loctite around here
[20:24:01] <Frank_6> can you make me a little space in your country andy?
[20:24:02] <Frank_6> lol
[20:28:03] <minibnz> hey guys need a little (maybe lots) help with my spindle controls
[20:28:47] <andypugh> Please elaborate?
[20:29:20] <minibnz> in the pconfwizard i can control the speed and direction of the spindle but once i use those settings both the gui buttons and the gcodes m3 m4 only spin the spindle in the clockwise direction
[20:29:29] <roycroft> andy might, but iron lady II would probably not be so accomodating
[20:30:50] <minibnz> i am using a mesa 5i24 card with my own motor controller interfaces, (ie transistors and relays, and a pwm to analog voltage circuit)..
[20:30:55] <andypugh> minibnz: What does your spindle need in order to reverse?
[20:31:39] <andypugh> It sounds like your motor reverse wire is either not where you think it is, or is not actually working as a wire.
[20:33:07] <minibnz> the direction pin needs to be set low.. at the moment when i G5 the relay sets NO which i have wired to be CCW.. when i G3 S1000 the enable relay fires as well as the direction relay so it spins CW.. when i G4 S900 the enable relay and the direction relay fire and the spindle spins CW.
[20:33:57] <andypugh> What HAL pin is connected to the direction relay output?
[20:33:58] <minibnz> andypugh that was my first thoughts too, but after checking and watching the relays toggle on a G3 or a G4 i can see they are doing stuff...
[20:35:24] <andypugh> Can you pastebin your spindle HAL?
[20:35:36] <minibnz> the hal pin i think is connected is hm2_5i24.0.gpio.044
[20:35:56] <andypugh> And what is the source pin?
[20:36:05] <Frank_6> bye guys going to bed. have a good one
[20:37:45] <minibnz> that i cannot find. andypugh.. i have trolled the hal_config tool while the machine is running and i cannot find the logical connection or net that connects to the DIR pin. the GPIO group lists that pin as a input, the pwmgen group doesnt have a dir pin for that generator.
[20:37:59] <minibnz> i will see if i can get that box on the network....
[20:38:01] <gregcnc> all spindle-forward and spindle-reverse are setup correctly? I seem to remember having to do somthing to get it to work correctly.
[20:38:16] <minibnz> where is my ethernet_everywhere_cable???
[20:38:57] <minibnz> gregcnc i read that i should too but when i try to set a net for those pins the are reported as already being connected to something..
[20:41:09] <andypugh> The 5i24 will have a PWM output and a DIR output on pins set by the bitfile. If you pass a negative value to the pwmgen then you get the same duty cycle, but the DIR pin changes state.
[20:41:32] <minibnz> here is the strange thing.. i copied all the settings i could find for pwmgen 7 (spindle) to gen6 then connected the spindle control to gen6 physically when i set the scale to 1 and set the speed to 0.5 i get CW motion if i then set the value to -0.5 it spins in reverse so im pretty sure my wires and relays are correct
[20:41:44] <andypugh> It may be that you have connected spindle-speed-out-abs to the pwmgen, and should have used spindle-speed-out ?
[20:42:28] <andypugh> Sorry, I need to log off to sleep.
[20:42:35] <minibnz> so far i have only let pconfwizard set things up..
[20:42:42] <minibnz> dont be sorry thanks for the help..
[20:42:58] <minibnz> i think you might have given me enough :)
[20:43:00] <andypugh> But you should be able to poke around with halmeter and see what is going wrong.
[20:43:26] <minibnz> yeah thats a good idea.. i forget thats there..
[20:44:03] <andypugh> And, at about this point, is it time to give up on pncconf, it has done it’s job and made a config, the fine-tuning should be done in the HAL and INI files with a text editor. Pncconf can’t possibly cover all possibilities.
[21:02:45] <pink_vampire> what is g30?
[21:08:31] <pink_vampire> G30 #5422
[21:14:22] <roycroft> g30 is home to a secondary zero
[21:14:30] <roycroft> and there can be multipel secondary zeros
[21:15:00] <roycroft> i believe that's generally used when one fixtures multiple parts on a machine at the same time and wishes to perform the same machining on each part
[21:15:13] <roycroft> home to seconadry zero 1
[21:15:15] <roycroft> perform operation
[21:15:19] <roycroft> home to secondary zero 2
[21:15:21] <roycroft> perform operation
[21:15:22] <roycroft> etc.
[21:17:27] <pink_vampire> but I have the same line at the beginning and the end of the file.
[21:17:35] <pink_vampire> roycroft: ^
[21:20:39] <roycroft> so your file is homing to a secondary zero and not the machine zero at the beginning and the end of the operation
[21:20:48] <pink_vampire> is that a joke from tormach? https://www.tormach.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=33308
[21:20:56] <roycroft> i don't know why the file was written that way
[21:21:20] <roycroft> and i'm the farthest from being an expert in g code here
[21:21:25] <roycroft> or even remotely competent
[21:21:34] <roycroft> but i can understand doing that
[21:21:42] <pink_vampire> one sec let me try to copy the code
[21:21:58] <roycroft> it would be wasted on me :)
[21:22:41] <roycroft> wait until someone who actually works with g-code on a daily basis is active
[21:23:43] <pink_vampire> ok
[21:41:11] <Jymmm> pink_vampire: I don't think it is, there is mention of a dongle
[21:41:34] <Jymmm> NEVER EVER buy any software requiring a dongle
[21:41:46] <Jymmm> or and device that requires a dingle
[21:41:51] <Jymmm> any*
[21:41:52] <pink_vampire> why?
[21:41:54] <Jymmm> dongle*
[21:42:14] <MacGalempsy> because then you cannot use one license on 100 computers. duh!
[21:42:25] <Jymmm> If the dongle gets lost/stolen, you have to buy a brand new license at full price.
[21:43:11] <Jymmm> It causes more issue than I can count if you upgrade the hardware it's used on
[21:43:13] <MacGalempsy> thats not always the case. the software seller can track dongle use and brick them remotely, then you can get a new one for free
[21:43:19] <pink_vampire> but it is just a very pricey cheap microscope with tts holder.
[21:43:41] <elmo40> wow, $900 for a camera with software?
[21:43:58] <Jymmm> MacGalempsy: I have NEVER seen that being done. and no they can't always track not all systems are "online".
[21:44:58] <jdh> I have lots of dongles. They are, in general, and for my use, better than non-dongled
[21:45:23] <pink_vampire> I'm sure linux cnc can do better with camera + open cv
[21:45:24] <MacGalempsy> it just depends on the relationship with the software proprietor
[21:45:56] <Jymmm> No, it doens't. If they are using dongles, that' due to being paranoid
[21:46:16] <MacGalempsy> if the software costs enough $$$ then paranoia is deserved
[21:46:45] <Jymmm> Fuck that. You want your business to be dependant upon a $10 dongle to work without issue?
[21:46:46] <MacGalempsy> however, I can see both sides of the arguement
[21:46:59] <jdh> I could buy non-dongled versions with SW based licensing, but that has proven to be more susceptible to failure
[21:47:10] <MacGalempsy> I used one everyday for 5 years and never had an issue
[21:47:21] <Jymmm> jdh: wtf sw are you using that needs a dongle?
[21:47:22] <MacGalempsy> the biggest fear was did I leave home without it?
[21:47:39] <MacGalempsy> it was some oil and gas interpretation software
[21:47:54] <jdh> PLC programming sw, specialty IO driver libraries (dev key required, free runtime)
[21:48:10] <jdh> robot programming package
[21:48:29] <MacGalempsy> at one point, the dongle had to be replaced, but it was an easy overnight fedex thing.
[21:48:31] <Jymmm> Then hack it, clone it, and toss the dongle in a fireproof data safe.
[21:48:44] <elmo40> we have dongles that are 15+ years old on some computers!
[21:49:01] <jdh> me too.
[21:49:02] <Jymmm> elmo40: and when was the last time that hw was upgraded?
[21:49:03] <elmo40> most of them back then were resistors with specific values, lol
[21:49:16] <elmo40> 2005'ish?
[21:49:19] <elmo40> needs par port
[21:49:24] <Jymmm> 12yo ?!
[21:49:25] <jdh> I have 6 dongle'd wonderware installs.
[21:49:36] <jdh> with PCI-E p-ports for teh dongles
[21:49:37] <Jymmm> elmo40: hw these days dont even have paraports
[21:49:53] <elmo40> I don't know how current machines get dongle'd
[21:49:57] <elmo40> usb?
[21:50:04] <Jymmm> yeah
[21:50:06] <jdh> yeah.
[21:50:34] <jdh> I have some ultrasonic analysis packages with USB keys.
[21:50:37] <elmo40> I have not heard of one failing (with par port)
[21:50:37] <MacGalempsy> on that note, have a nice night folks.
[21:50:54] <elmo40> no clue about usb ones
[21:51:26] <elmo40> jdh: I have an UltraProbe :)
[21:51:42] <elmo40> old school. no output other than headphones
[21:51:58] <elmo40> and the noise gauge.
[21:52:06] <jdh> mine have 2GHz digitizers
[21:52:09] <Jymmm> pink_vampire: BTW, I have the wireless version of that microscaope =)
[21:52:19] <elmo40> amplitude meter? I guess?
[21:52:38] <jdh> I use them for weld inspection
[21:53:18] <elmo40> I want to get a fault tool. to find voids/cracks in materials
[21:53:22] <elmo40> they are damn pricey!!
[21:53:41] <jdh> I look for voids and cracks
[21:53:51] <jdh> and do dimensional verification
[21:54:08] <elmo40> yeah, that kind. ;)
[21:54:37] <jdh> yes, quite pricey.
[21:54:49] <pink_vampire> Jymmm: wireless?
[21:54:59] <minibnz> Yay i have direction control on my spindle.. my speed control circuit i built is very poor to say the least i only get four steps between stop and full speed... (less accurate than the bodgey servo interface im replacing..) i have two options, poke at it some more until it plays nice or wait for a proper pwm to analog voltage controller to arrive and wire that in..
[21:55:07] <Jymmm> pink_vampire: as in, no wires
[21:55:27] <roycroft> wires are overrated
[21:55:33] <elmo40> indeed they are!
[21:55:35] <roycroft> nicola tesla rules!
[21:55:42] <elmo40> I was gonna say that! LoL
[21:55:50] <jdh> my cnc4pc pwm->analog works fairly well
[21:55:56] <elmo40> where is my 'free' electricity, dammit
[21:56:27] <pink_vampire> Jymmm: link!!
[21:56:34] <pink_vampire> sounds cool
[21:58:36] <Jymmm> pink_vampire: Mine looks like this... https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Wireless-2-4G-Digital-Scalp-Hair-Microscope-5-200X-8LED-Skin-Detector-HD-Pixels-Magnifier-microscopio/32788673400.html
[22:01:47] <roycroft> so, folks, i understand how i can link multiple daughterboards to my mesa 5i25
[22:01:59] <roycroft> but how do i address all the i/o ports on those daughter boards?
[22:02:31] <roycroft> do i load firmware on the 5i25 that is specific to the boards i have attached?
[22:02:40] <Jymmm> pink_vampire: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Portable-USB-500X-2MP-Digital-Microscope-Endoscope-Magnifier-Video-Camera-High-Quality-Brand-New/32315851942.html
[22:03:15] <Jymmm> pink_vampire: You'll have to find non-M$ software for any of them though.
[22:03:56] <Jymmm> pink_vampire: Though the usb endoscopes are cheap too, but I haven't played with them
[22:07:11] <pink_vampire> how is the frame rate on it?
[22:07:26] <pink_vampire> it can do video?
[22:07:40] <elmo40> it says 'high quality'. ;-)
[22:07:46] <pink_vampire> or it is better to go with something like the go pro 5?
[22:12:03] <Jymmm> not for video
[22:48:52] <minibnz> ok a little poking and soldering i have something that looks usable...
[22:49:58] <minibnz> 20 steps between stop and full speed..
[22:49:58] <minibnz> one problem that i did find is that it likes to blow fuses when you tell it to go from full speed forward to full speed reverse.. at least i hope it was a fuse this time ,like last time..
[22:50:13] <minibnz> curse of the shitty DC motor i am using..
[22:52:56] <minibnz> its a public holiday here in Australia so no shops open to buy new fuse.. i stole the one out of my lathe last night, i might have a box somewhere with m205 fuses, but where is the quest
[22:53:45] <minibnz> guess i dont get to try and attempt any sychronised moves today :(
[23:02:53] <pink_vampire> what is g97?
[23:14:52] <minibnz> pink that controls the speed mode of the spindle. g97 lets you control the spindle by RPM, G96 lets you control the spindle by SFM (ie how deep a cut you are taking)
[23:17:11] <minibnz> SFM mode is how the profesionals do it, i think.
[23:18:10] <minibnz> turns out i didnt bloww A fuse at all.. the machine still works, all the sparks and stuff i saw must just be how its meant to work :P
[23:18:44] <minibnz> will have to play around with the ramp controls on the spindle
[23:20:59] <minibnz> now i have added a fair amount of metal to the head of my printer for the ATC chuck release my head has a drop issue, that is, there is a big chunk of backlash and sort of a binding issue to sort out before i attempt some rigid tapping..
[23:21:52] <minibnz> although a little backlash might not be a bad thing when rigid tapping.. means my calcs dont gotta be spot on... i have some room to move.