#linuxcnc | Logs for 2017-01-17

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[00:04:44] <MacGalempsy> srdc: what are you working with
[00:04:49] <Gene_home> I was thinking about buying the following, but am open to other suggestions http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shars-3-Boring-head-R8-Shank-12pcs-Carbide-Tipped-3-4-Boring-Bar-Set-New-/350462906539?hash=item51993790ab:g:nuEAAOSwL7VWs71g
[00:50:57] <archivist> Gene_home, I have a similar one, worksforme
[01:05:30] <Gene_home> archivist - what is your machine?
[01:06:18] <archivist> I have used the boring head on more than one machine
[01:06:51] <Gene_home> do you have anything similar to this? http://www.grizzly.com/products/Drill-Mill-with-Stand/G0704?utm_campaign=zPage&utm_source=grizzly.com
[01:07:16] <roycroft> i have a g0603, which is somewhat similar to the g0704
[01:08:06] <archivist> you would have to take a light cut with a light machine
[01:09:01] <roycroft> indeed
[01:09:05] <Gene_home> I'm looking to eventually upgrade to timing belt with a 1.7 ish hp motor. also looking at a http://www.ebay.com/itm/350562542386
[01:09:20] <roycroft> i can machine steel with no problems, but i have to take fairly light passes, so it takes a long time
[01:09:35] <Gene_home> aluminum will be what I will primarily be milling
[01:09:45] <Gene_home> with a cnc conversion
[01:09:56] <roycroft> i had to get a power drive for the x, as my arm was wearing out from all the 0.015" passes
[01:10:26] <Gene_home> do you think the 3" face mill is to large?
[01:10:53] <roycroft> that's a lot for a small mill like that
[01:11:12] <roycroft> i have a 2" one with carbide inserts and i think that's about the most my mill can handle
[01:12:48] <archivist> I had one on a light mill, got rid of the mill :)
[01:12:58] <Gene_home> ya.... that was my thought also... but wanted to ask.
[01:15:27] <Gene_home> would you be more conserned about power, or vibration cutting aluminum?
[01:15:58] <archivist> vibration is a common problem with lighter mills
[01:16:04] <roycroft> do you own this mill yet?
[01:16:16] <Gene_home> yes
[01:16:26] <roycroft> then use it manually
[01:16:32] <roycroft> and get a sense for how hard you can push it
[01:16:53] <roycroft> if you haven't done so yet, you should consider disassembling it and at the very least lapping the gibs
[01:17:01] <Gene_home> I have the mill, not the bore or face mill
[01:17:07] <roycroft> grizzly machines should be considered kits
[01:17:12] <roycroft> better kits than many other imports
[01:17:16] <roycroft> but kits nevertheless
[01:17:48] <Gene_home> all I will be keeping is the iron for the most part
[01:17:53] <Wolf_> most of the small mills come out of the seig plant, just with different paint on them
[01:18:05] <roycroft> i say that as someone who lived a few blocks away from grizzly when they first opened in '83(?), and have been buying both woodworking and metalworking machinery from them ever since
[01:18:33] <roycroft> the iron is what you have to fix
[01:19:29] <roycroft> you will still have vibration issues, and probably some resonances that you have to work around
[01:19:55] <roycroft> folks do several things to reduce vibration
[01:20:14] <Gene_home> please share
[01:20:25] <Wolf_> bolt a bunch of steel plate to them
[01:20:27] <roycroft> what seems to be most effective, and i haven't done this personally yet, so i'm not making a first-hand claim, is to fill the voids with granite epoxy
[01:20:41] <Gene_home> i've heard that
[01:20:47] <Gene_home> looks like a lot of work
[01:20:49] <Gene_home> messy
[01:21:01] <roycroft> well
[01:21:05] <archivist> I helped a guy adjust the headstock bearings, they are just not fitted correctly at the factory
[01:21:06] <roycroft> i would recomend that you
[01:21:21] <roycroft> 1. get the tooling you intend to use, and see how well it works
[01:21:25] <Wolf_> ^ thats one thing, upgrade the bearings
[01:21:36] <roycroft> 2. disassemble and lap the gibs, and possibly scrap the gibs and ways
[01:21:53] <roycroft> 3. yes, work on the spindle bearings
[01:22:07] <Wolf_> lapping will just make the high spots smoother =)
[01:22:34] <Wolf_> really need scraped and referenced
[01:22:35] <roycroft> there are spindle bearing upgrades that will allow you to double the speed of your spindle
[01:22:54] <roycroft> note that i did not say "lap the gibs and stop there"
[01:22:58] <roycroft> i said to start with that
[01:23:36] <roycroft> 4. if you get too much vibration, especially a lot of resonances, consider the fill with granite epoxy thing, or some other means to increase the mass and rigidity of the machine
[01:23:45] <archivist> google for Super-X1L-Mill-Dismantling-and-Reassembly-Guide.pdf
[01:23:45] <roycroft> 5. get a bigger mill
[01:24:04] <Wolf_> like bolting it to the table of a nice knee mill :P
[01:24:12] <roycroft> people make good parts with small mills
[01:24:20] <roycroft> i built a stand for my x3
[01:24:26] <archivist> that company points you at a rebuild on the stuff they sell
[01:24:36] <roycroft> i used hollow tubing, and filled the tubing with stand
[01:24:40] <roycroft> put a heavy steel top on it
[01:24:46] <roycroft> and bolted the mill down to the stand firmly
[01:25:02] <Gene_home> yep, I have info and directions on bearing replacement, kluber
[01:25:23] <Wolf_> http://i.imgur.com/fD7Z76M.jpg made on a X1 seig
[01:26:14] <Wolf_> http://i.imgur.com/cbTjU5A.jpg can see the nema 23 mount in this one
[01:26:17] <roycroft> if you're going to do a cnc conversion, do the lapping/scraping before you install the ball screws
[01:26:36] <Gene_home> nice
[01:26:47] <Wolf_> just don’t ask how many youtube vids I watched while that was being milled...
[01:27:30] <roycroft> that's the deal with a small mill like that
[01:27:35] <roycroft> you can make good parts with it
[01:27:40] <roycroft> you can't make good money with it
[01:27:47] <roycroft> it just takes too long to make anything
[01:28:56] <roycroft> the g0704 is a very popular machine for cnc conversions
[01:29:11] <roycroft> it did not exist when i got my g0463
[01:29:35] <roycroft> i may well have purchased a g0704 instead if it were available at the time
[01:32:17] <Gene_home> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FA98kGxbSQw
[02:28:51] <Deejay> moin
[05:28:43] <jthornton> morning
[05:31:08] <Tom_itx> hey
[05:32:32] <XXCoder> yo
[05:33:13] <jthornton> I'd bet that archivist bot stores the data in a data base and that would be a faster search for last seen
[05:33:50] <Tom_itx> pretty sure that's how it works
[05:38:31] <archivist> exactly how it works
[05:38:48] <archivist> !seen jthornton
[05:38:48] <the_wench> last seen in #linuxcnc 2017-01-17 11:01:10GMT 00:05:36 ago, saying I'd bet that archivist bot stores the data in a data base and that would be a faster search for last seen
[05:39:32] <jthornton> !help
[05:40:44] <archivist> help
[05:40:49] <archivist> db
[05:40:49] <the_wench> http://www.wench.archivist.info/index.php?chan=%23linuxcnc
[05:42:30] <archivist> just never got around to a "nice" log calender interface
[05:43:03] <jthornton> I think mine fills that gap
[05:44:14] <jthornton> how do you add to the list?
[05:45:35] <archivist> wee 9562909 rows in its table
[05:45:55] <archivist> what do you mean add to the list
[05:46:23] <jthornton> !microstepping
[05:46:53] <archivist> that is a learn command to add a factoid
[05:47:16] <jthornton> ah yea
[05:47:48] <archivist> and factoids are free text not commands
[05:47:59] <archivist> microstepping
[05:47:59] <the_wench> http://www.micromo.com/microstepping-myths-and-realities
[05:48:21] <jthornton> ah
[05:49:23] <archivist> it has a man facility and a database behind it, still set up for mysql
[05:49:45] <jthornton> the factoid must be the only word on that line?
[05:50:10] <archivist> well it has had a few tricks up its sleeve
[05:50:44] <archivist> !man select
[05:50:44] <the_wench> Sorry - I have no idea what function you're talking about! but try http://dev.mysql.com/select see reply term
[05:51:04] <Banenan> hi
[05:51:16] <Banenan> how can i change the direction of homing ?
[05:51:22] <archivist> what it needs is a machine readable manual so I can populate !man
[05:51:25] <Banenan> without the wizard
[05:51:48] <archivist> edit your ini/hal file
[05:51:56] <Banenan> yes but wher there
[05:52:16] <Banenan> thers noithing like home dir
[05:53:35] <archivist> each named config is in a named directory
[05:54:28] <Banenan> yes but wher can i choose if +x is on the rigt side or on the left side of the table
[05:54:49] <Banenan> or is this only changable over the step direction
[05:55:09] <Banenan> in cnc mashines i can choose drive home in + or -
[05:55:15] <Banenan> is this here not possible ?
[05:55:59] <archivist> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/ini-homing.html
[05:56:25] <sync_> X+ is always to the right of the table if you stand infront of a VMC
[05:57:39] <archivist> but you use HOME_SEARCH_VEL to indicate which direction to move to the switch
[05:57:55] <Banenan> yes i know but if i make now homing the mashine is driving the wrong way. if i change the direktion of the step pins the mashine is driving good but the pictur in linux cnc is drivin wrong
[05:58:16] <sync_> yeah you can change the sign of the velocity
[05:58:29] <archivist> have the stepping correct
[05:58:34] <Banenan> so home_search_vel can be + or - ?
[05:58:40] <archivist> yes
[05:58:43] <Banenan> ok
[05:59:44] <Banenan> perfekt works thanks :)
[06:36:54] <MacGalempsy> good mornin
[06:37:05] * archivist is in denial
[06:40:41] <MacGalempsy> why?
[06:41:12] <MacGalempsy> not good? not morning? or both?
[06:43:55] <archivist> not morning :)
[06:44:39] <archivist> and I just this centuries nasty job, unblocked the kitchen sink u bend
[06:45:30] <MacGalempsy> ewww
[06:45:47] <MacGalempsy> no neither!
[06:45:51] <archivist> it was a bit, found a fur ball
[06:46:05] <MacGalempsy> find any jewelry?
[06:46:10] <jthornton> was it growing?
[06:46:58] <archivist> nothing good found, must have been growing because today it went from slow drain to blocked
[06:53:02] <gonzo_> sometimes it's best to put a bowl under, and disconnect the trap whislt trying not to look
[06:55:05] <archivist> mine is so old that it is just a plug into the u bend, unscrew the plug fill bucket, remove, then poke up the rear part and extract the "lovely"
[07:11:25] <MacGalempsy> :/
[07:12:36] <gonzo_> Just put on your best Leslie Philips voice and say "Ohhh, nasty"
[07:47:37] <ktchk> Hi bipod kinematic howto
[07:48:51] <jdh> ok
[08:13:23] <ToddZ> Definitely not the nastiest job in the world, but yucky none the less. (next time try to keep the cat out of the sink.)
[08:14:13] <archivist> cat died more than 10 years ago cannot blame her
[08:17:51] <BitEvil> Sure you can.
[08:50:15] <Wolf_> Cool, I got my strange measuring thinger…
[08:50:45] <SpeedEvil> Have you got anything strange to measure?
[08:52:18] <Wolf_> some things… its that Instruments 01 bluetooth dimensioning thing
[08:53:33] <archivist> pics or it didnthappen
[08:54:20] <archivist> effin seller only just dispatched the renishaw cards today
[08:55:19] <Wolf_> http://i.imgur.com/IHpIUWo.jpg
[08:57:56] <archivist> I shall have to start sneaking an adjustable into each pic :)
[08:58:16] <Wolf_> I like that one just cause its so rare
[09:00:22] <archivist> something like http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2005/2005_04_04_Adjustables/P4020912.JPG
[09:01:10] <Wolf_> I read that this double is 1920s maybe
[09:01:40] <Wolf_> which seems crazy to me
[09:03:13] <archivist> another double http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2010/2010_07_07_adjustable_spanner/IMG_0786.JPG
[09:04:01] <Wolf_> hehe nice
[09:04:18] <archivist> some crazy designs were made
[09:05:01] <Wolf_> http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2497541&postcount=7
[09:06:32] <Wolf_> I read somewhere else that no springs in it makes it a early model
[09:08:29] <archivist> when searching for old american tools http://www.datamp.org/
[09:09:18] <archivist> I lurk on the OldTools mailing list as well, but that seems mostly wood workers
[09:17:34] <ktchk> jdh: bipod kinematic
[09:27:49] <ktchk> tutor install bipod kinematic to 2.7.8?
[11:00:32] <Holzwurm> Hello, I want that my milling spindle moves to a defined "Park Position" when I stop the program with the external abort switch. Has someone an idea? Thanks
[11:08:35] <archivist> Holzwurm, that would be a bit unusual because of tooling and where that tool is in the work
[11:11:39] <jdh> might be interesting with a threadmill or slitting saw
[11:12:56] <Holzwurm> The best case will be: " switch out spindle, move z in the highest position and move x and y in the park position"
[11:13:26] <archivist> think about a slitting saw in the spindle
[11:13:51] <archivist> or a tap
[11:17:10] <jdh> or internal groove cutter, or anything that undercuts
[11:18:06] <jdh> you could tie code to the button to do that if you feel strongly about bit
[11:18:39] <Holzwurm> I was thinking wrong. When there is a tap or a horizontal saw in the spindle it comes to a crash
[11:19:38] <jdh> crashing is cool, if you have video running.
[11:19:41] <archivist> or a 5 axis that has put its head in a hole
[11:20:34] <Holzwurm> The same problem will be too when i switch stop and then start
[12:26:34] <IchGucksLive> hi
[12:26:54] <IchGucksLive> Holzwurm: did the buttons work
[12:30:39] <t12> l
[12:31:09] <IchGucksLive> 2
[12:32:02] <IchGucksLive> today the new Students became the senior pro
[12:33:04] <IchGucksLive> Trainee -> Companion
[12:33:55] <IchGucksLive> 3 Female and 28 male
[13:01:00] <MacGalempsy> nice. is everyone a new starter?
[13:04:53] <Frank_6> hi guys, quick question, does anyone use the servo on and alarm clear input to the drive with a manual switch rather than with a software control? because my driver asks for 0v when the mesa card sends 24v on the output
[13:05:27] <jdh> use a relay
[13:05:43] <FloppyDisk5_25> Can't you 'invert' the signal in hal (or something like that)?
[13:05:54] <MacGalempsy> yeah.
[13:05:58] <Frank_6> thats beyond my payrate
[13:05:59] <MacGalempsy> input-xx-not
[13:06:45] <Frank_6> you mean changing the mesa configuration to send 0v when active and float when off? any place where i could do that?
[13:06:53] <Frank_6> i mean where i could find info about that
[13:07:02] <FloppyDisk5_25> Not mesa config... HAL config.
[13:07:10] <FloppyDisk5_25> Or at least I'm not sure what you mean by mesa.
[13:07:20] <Frank_6> the mesa 7i76 card
[13:08:09] <FloppyDisk5_25> You shouldn't need to do anything w/ the mesa card or mesa config. It's the LINUXCNC config. The Hal files that 'setup' your system.
[13:08:36] <MacGalempsy> in the hal file it would be something like. hm2_5i25.0.7i76.0.0.inputXX-not
[13:08:45] <FloppyDisk5_25> In your FILENAME.Hal files..
[13:08:53] <jdh> you need a gnd for your servo enable?
[13:09:09] <JT-Shop2> my BP is the same way
[13:09:20] <Frank_6> okey i see what you mean. but the mesa card has the capability to deliver that requirement? maybe you understand that its not a card issue but rather a software one
[13:09:24] <JT-Shop2> I just use a relay so there are no race conditions on start up
[13:09:45] <Frank_6> race conditions? rare conditions?
[13:10:08] <MacGalempsy> I use that too. use the 24v signal out of the mesa to actuate the relay, which makes a ground condition
[13:10:14] <Frank_6> using a relay would be more practicall but more expensive too
[13:10:17] <jdh> when you turn on the system, the drives would enable until everything came up
[13:10:30] <MacGalempsy> a couple of bucks is worth an hour of head banging
[13:10:34] <FloppyDisk5_25> Then, use a relay...
[13:10:38] <Frank_6> totally,
[13:10:54] <Frank_6> that was my "if i cant find an answer" solution to the problem
[13:11:44] <JT-Shop2> for a stepper system the chance of run away is nil so you can just invert your output
[13:11:49] <Frank_6> here goes a trickier one because you deserve it:D : my driver needs 24v step dir signals. how on earth can i switch that voltage easily?
[13:11:57] <JT-Shop2> for servos it's a different story
[13:12:28] <Frank_6> yeah they are servos
[13:13:30] <MacGalempsy> my bad on the above input comment! I thought you were talking about sending a drive enabled comment from the amp to box
[13:15:11] <Frank_6> sanity check; multiple contact relay? or just wire the 4 inputs to 1 relay?
[13:15:42] <Frank_6> machalempsy: i have to send the SRV-ON servo on signal to the drive, to power the motors
[13:17:04] <MacGalempsy> yup. that is what I realized when we started talking relays. my machine was previously set up with 4 relays, one for each axis, but this time around I am going to try to use 1 4-pole relay for the drive-enable (trying to free up i/o space)
[13:18:26] <Frank_6> still each contact can run 5 amps, why would you need 4 poles? i cant see why it would be a bad idea to connect them to a 1 pole relay
[13:18:43] <pcw_home> Frank_6 which drive needs 24V step/dir?
[13:18:43] <Frank_6> and you dont have to add a flyback diode to the mesa card
[13:18:57] <Frank_6> pcw_home minas liqi servomotor panasonic 1kw
[13:19:16] <Frank_6> https://www.panasonic-electric-works.com/cps/rde/xbcr/pew_eu_en/dd_63789_0700_en_liqi_fp_npn_pnp.pdf
[13:20:53] <pcw_home> most servo drives have differential (line driver)
[13:20:54] <pcw_home> (24V is too slow for high rest step/dir typically)
[13:21:04] <pcw_home> high res
[13:21:23] <Frank_6> yeah i know, i dont like them either
[13:22:23] <pcw_home> Looks like OPTO inputs (may be 5V without the 2.2K resistor)
[13:23:27] <IchGucksLive> GN8 its almost -10Deg C outside
[13:23:54] <Frank_6> pcw_home: you are on page 1 or 2?
[13:28:37] <pcw_home> both pages show 2.2K (my guess is that the inputs are 5V natively and need the 2.2K resistors for a 24V interface)
[13:29:22] <Frank_6> will try them out, does something happen if they happen to be 24v navitely?
[13:30:17] <pcw_home> The are clearly _NOT_ 24V native or they woudl not require the series resistors
[13:32:13] <jdh> the other manual says diff. input
[13:32:18] <Frank_6> okey sry for my ignorance, i've read about it from another member here, you were trying to help him too, maybe helps https://forum.linuxcnc.org/forum/27-driver-boards/22688-upgrading-to-a-motion-control-board
[13:41:39] <jdh> Frank_6: see page 1 and 14 of the tech ref manual
[13:47:39] <Frank_6> jdh: im there, what should i be looking at? i know it supports line driver and differential input, does that mean that it works with 5v?
[13:50:46] <jdh> you can drive it directly from the mesa
[13:56:17] <Frank_6> okey, will try. thank you very much.
[13:58:19] <jdh> if you set it for step/dir, and line driver mode in the config. pulse delays are also specified there.
[14:42:15] <tommylight> All humans, raise your hands !
[14:45:28] <tommylight> Made some progress on the retrofit today, namely got the serial encoders to comunicate and report back
[14:46:02] <tommylight> still not making usable readings, but well on the way
[14:47:20] <tommylight> also found a direct replacement for the encoders so found a pdf with more info on it
[14:47:53] <tommylight> the saga continues..................tomorrow
[14:48:15] <tommylight> anything going on here ?
[14:53:11] <JT-Shop> JT-Shop2: just finished hanging itch on the east side of the new shop roof
[14:54:43] <Banenan> hi is it possible to open stl files
[14:55:05] <tommylight> JT itch???
[14:55:12] <tommylight> scratch ???
[14:55:14] <tommylight> lol
[14:55:15] <skunkworks> fiberglass insulation
[14:55:19] <MacGalempsy> Banenan: what do you mean?
[14:55:20] <skunkworks> i would assume
[14:55:36] <Banenan> dsc cad files
[14:55:38] <MacGalempsy> the process is not quite the same as using a 3d printer
[14:55:41] <Banenan> dental cad
[14:56:06] <MacGalempsy> you might try to open the STL in Fusion360
[14:56:23] <tommylight> Banenan use freecad, it can open almost anything, but needs some geting used to
[14:56:26] <MacGalempsy> then use the CAM to plot your cuts
[14:57:05] <MacGalempsy> there is also a Linuxcnc post-processor, so you can make sure the correct G and M codes are being used
[14:57:31] <tommylight> itch=fiberglas insulation...........apropriate naming for sure
[14:57:55] <Banenan> thanks i will try
[14:58:42] <JT-Shop> now I have to move everything from the west side of the shop to the east side lol
[14:59:01] <MacGalempsy> lol. no rest. at least your cup is now half full!
[14:59:54] <JT-Shop> well the walls are all done and OSB is up on the walls so just a few days more and I can dust the place
[14:59:57] <tommylight> JT.......from california to new york????? lol
[15:01:20] <MacGalempsy> when do you install the stripper pole?
[15:02:10] <tommylight> lol @ Mac
[15:02:32] <tommylight> do we get a discount
[15:05:24] <JT-Shop> right after I move the kegerator from the beer cave to the shop
[15:07:59] <tommylight> can anyone make sense of this: pick-up code =>gray single-step
[15:08:13] <tommylight> regarding serial encoders
[15:10:03] <tommylight> got it, that is the encoded disc inside the encoder
[15:14:51] <tommylight> later
[16:15:18] <tommylight> back
[17:07:43] <cnc> hi can someone explain me how to install heekscad on my linuxcnc mashine ?
[17:12:10] <Deejay> gn8
[17:17:29] <cnc> hi can someone explain me how to install heekscad on my linuxcnc mashine ?
[17:17:53] <pfred1> heekscad is kind of done
[17:18:32] <MacGalempsy> could it be as easy as sude apt-get install heekscad?
[17:18:38] <MacGalempsy> sudo
[17:18:39] <pfred1> nah
[17:18:40] <JT-Shop2> cnc: you don't have to repeat yourself every 10 minutes
[17:18:46] <pfred1> use freedad
[17:18:51] <pfred1> freecad even
[17:18:55] <JT-Shop2> been dead for some time iirc
[17:19:10] <pfred1> yeah heeks is abandoned
[17:19:27] <pfred1> the CAM got rolled into freecad
[17:19:41] <cnc> oke
[17:20:04] <cnc> bur i need it for convert stf to g code
[17:20:20] <pfred1> svg you mean?
[17:20:36] <cnc> no stf
[17:20:43] <pfred1> I never heard of it
[17:20:51] <cnc> dental cad
[17:21:07] <cnc> STL
[17:21:09] <cnc> sorry
[17:21:34] <JT-Shop2> stl is easy, slic3r
[17:22:15] <pfred1> can blender open those?
[17:22:38] <pfred1> yes apparently it can
[17:22:41] <cnc> i only have linux cnc on this mashine
[17:22:44] <MacGalempsy> stl can be opened in blender
[17:23:00] <MacGalempsy> and blender has a pretty steep learning curve
[17:23:05] <pfred1> yeah install blender
[17:23:10] <pfred1> tell me about it
[17:23:23] <pfred1> but just to import and export it shouldn't be too bad
[17:24:01] <pfred1> I wonder if openscad can handle stl files?
[17:24:27] <pfred1> yeah openscad is a go for stl
[17:24:52] <cnc> yes i tried on my windows pc :)
[17:24:54] <cnc> im a newbe i try to install blender do u have a link wher i can get it
[17:25:32] <MacGalempsy> if you are using a windows pc, you might try Fusion 360
[17:25:48] <MacGalempsy> it may be a better route than blender, being that it includes a CAM
[17:25:49] <djdelorie> pfred1: openscad isn't so good at fixing broken stls though
[17:26:03] <MacGalempsy> broken STL. try netfabb
[17:26:04] <pfred1> yeah I don't do CAD or CAM on my LinuxCNC box
[17:26:25] <pfred1> djdelorie yeah openscad only likes text files not binaries
[17:26:38] <djdelorie> er, mine handles binaries just fine...
[17:26:43] <MacGalempsy> there is a web-based repair tool that has always worked for me, quite well actually
[17:26:45] <pfred1> yeah?
[17:26:49] <djdelorie> I meant manifold issues
[17:27:06] <djdelorie> openscad-2015.03.3
[17:27:06] <pfred1> if a file is broke throw it out
[17:27:17] <pfred1> I just built openscad here
[17:27:24] <djdelorie> well, if it's all I got from someone else, not always an option ;-)
[17:28:16] <pfred1> djdelorie I have the same version you do
[17:28:36] <djdelorie> and you're using the import() function?
[17:28:55] <pfred1> djdelorie http://i.imgur.com/MwbyoY2.png
[17:29:26] <pfred1> I'm still waiting for the bits to cut that
[17:29:58] <djdelorie> you got pycam to work? wow :-)
[17:30:12] <pfred1> stylin
[17:30:28] <pfred1> I got kicad to build on wheezy it was a dog
[17:30:48] <djdelorie> I have an openscad thing that lets you emboss text with a chamfer instead of straight edges if you want
[17:31:01] <pfred1> hey I'll check it out
[17:31:35] <djdelorie> minkowski() {
[17:31:35] <djdelorie> linear_extrude(0.01)
[17:31:35] <djdelorie> text("d", font="Bitstream Charter:style=Bold", $fn=48, valign="center", halign="center");
[17:31:35] <djdelorie> cylinder(d1=0, d2=3, h=1, $fn=48);
[17:32:34] <pfred1> I found something I'm even worse at than programming
[17:32:37] <djdelorie> http://delorie.com/tmp/emboss.png
[17:32:39] <cnc> wher can i load the stl file in bender
[17:32:46] <pfred1> I suck at using CAD software
[17:32:57] <pfred1> try import under file
[17:33:11] <djdelorie> in bender? Right in the mouth, of course :-)
[17:33:26] <MacGalempsy> BIte my shiney metal ass
[17:34:08] <cnc> https://www.blender.org/download/
[17:34:40] <cnc> do u mean this to convert stl to ns
[17:35:49] <JT-Shop> cnc easier to do with slic3r
[17:36:29] <pfred1> JT-Shop does slic3r run on Linux?
[17:36:35] <cnc> oke *g i try to find it
[17:37:08] <djdelorie> pfred1: yes
[17:37:24] <pfred1> woo I'll have to check it out
[17:37:44] <MacGalempsy> it can if you use one of these 4 methods http://www.howtogeek.com/133515/4-ways-to-run-windows-software-on-linux/
[17:37:57] <JT-Shop2> pfred1: yes
[17:37:59] <pfred1> there's source code
[17:39:49] <djdelorie> yeah, run it natively on linux, don't run the windows version ;-)
[17:40:32] <djdelorie> you may be able to "just install it" too, depending on your os's default repos
[17:40:33] <cnc> windows version is running but how can i install the sorce
[17:40:52] <pfred1> I'm on rickety old Debian Wheezy
[17:41:26] <djdelorie> cnc: I was referring to pfred1, not blender ;-)
[17:41:33] <pfred1> so everything is from 2012
[17:42:02] <djdelorie> pfred1: should build from source anyway, at least the lastest 1.2.9
[17:42:16] <pfred1> yeah I'll git clone it
[17:42:29] <djdelorie> that would be 1.3.0-dev, even better
[17:42:38] <pfred1> get them fresh open sores
[17:44:50] <cnc> yu try to install slic3r on ur linux mashine ? can u tell me how to do if it works
[17:46:39] <pfred1> pfred1@buck:~/Build/Slic3r$ git clone https://github.com/alexrj/Slic3r.git
[17:54:14] <pfred1> I'm making a holder for my collet set http://i.imgur.com/KOLoJSX.png
[17:55:27] <pfred1> which happens to be on sale right now http://www.banggood.com/15pcs-ER11-1-7mm-Spring-Collet-Set-for-CNC-Milling-Lathe-Tool-p-1066578.html?rmmds=search
[18:04:21] <JT-Shop2> cnc you type slic3r.org in the browser and follow the instructions
[18:04:38] <cnc> its working thanks
[18:05:20] <JT-Shop2> it will generate some M codes you won't need so you will have to delete them
[18:08:41] <pfred1> my boost blew up
[18:13:18] <MacGalempsy> boost?
[18:13:35] <pfred1> yeah libboost
[18:13:59] <pfred1> my version is probably too old for this software to compile against
[18:14:13] <pfred1> /usr/include/boost/polygon/transform.hpp:362:5: error: unnamed initializer for ‘boost::polygon::anisotropic_scale_factor<scale_factor_type>’, which has no base classes
[18:16:12] <pfred1> dlocate -S /usr/include/boost/polygon/transform.hpp
[18:16:15] <pfred1> libboost1.49-dev: /usr/include/boost/polygon/transform.hpp
[18:17:15] <pfred1> so I'm a gonna have to do something hinky to get this software to compile against an alternate version, or something?
[18:18:10] <cnc> why is the output x y a and not x y z wher can i change it
[18:18:28] <pfred1> machine type?
[18:19:24] <pfred1> you usually have to select the right machine type in CAM softwre
[18:20:11] * pfred1 knows buttkus about 3D printing
[18:21:29] <cnc> hm i cant find the preferences
[18:21:33] <pfred1> I wonder if I can get a later version of boost in backports?
[18:22:04] * JT-Shop2 just realized he didn't bring a flashlight and there is no moon to guide him to the machine shop
[18:22:21] <JT-Shop2> pfred1: what are you installing?
[18:22:40] <pfred1> JT-Shop2 I was trying to build the master of Slic3r
[18:22:53] <JT-Shop2> oh, I just downloaded it
[18:22:58] <JT-Shop2> iirc
[18:23:25] * JT-Shop2 bumps his way to the house in the dark... hope I don't fall off a cliff
[18:25:09] <cnc> but slic3r is obly for printers G1 X90.405 Y89.872 E2.02544 F1460.878
[18:25:10] <cnc> how can i change the output to G1 X90.405 Y89.872 Z2.02544 F1460.878
[18:40:28] <MacGalempsy> why would you want to change the extruder steps to a z step?
[18:41:24] <cnc> i have a stl file from a dental cad and i like to mill it on my mashine
[18:41:44] <MacGalempsy> you need to run a cam
[18:41:55] <MacGalempsy> then a postprocessor that works with your setup.
[18:42:16] <cnc> oke *g so what have i to install and i will work on it
[18:42:30] <MacGalempsy> since a 3d printer deposits one layer at a time, the z value only changes when you have printed the whole layer
[18:42:57] <cnc> yes
[18:43:09] <MacGalempsy> the E value is used to move more filament out the nozzle. so it will not work
[18:43:37] <MacGalempsy> there are a lot of different softwares you can use
[18:44:24] <MacGalempsy> draw it in a CAD, turn it into machine code with CAM, then use a post processor to make the code fit your machine
[18:45:57] <cnc> oke cut freecad cant open it
[18:47:10] <MacGalempsy> a popular choice for beginners is Fusion360, you should check out their youtube channel on instructions
[18:47:20] <cnc> i try to install freecad again or do u know a better free cad software to do this
[18:50:27] <cnc> fussion is no freeware
[18:50:48] <MacGalempsy> yeah, just download the trial
[18:51:16] <MacGalempsy> its free for students, hobbiests, and people making less than $100k/yr on cnc
[18:53:31] <pfred1> so, it's not free?
[18:53:56] <sync_> it does not cost you money
[18:53:56] <cnc> but i cant find a download
[18:54:11] <MacGalempsy> es gratis
[18:54:34] <cnc> ja aber das läuft nur unter vm im linux das doch doof
[18:54:52] <pfred1> quick, someone get saint iGNUcius on the horn!
[18:55:12] <pfred1> https://stallman.org/saintignucius.jpg
[18:57:51] <pfred1> I wonder what AutoCAD does if they find someone running Fusion 360 for free that is making more than $100K a year?
[18:58:14] <pfred1> but I was just evaluating it!
[19:00:32] <pfred1> cutting like a boss! http://i.imgur.com/z3mnv3Y.jpg
[19:00:41] <MacGalempsy> the one downside is that it is cloud based, so i'm sure if they notice a lot of different parts 24/7 then that will throw a red flag
[19:01:54] <pfred1> yeah they probably cut people off
[19:02:06] <pfred1> you could use TOR
[19:04:55] <MacGalempsy> not sure that would help since you have to signin with a userid
[19:05:08] <pfred1> ah
[19:05:20] <MacGalempsy> i guess you could use tor and a lot of different logins
[19:05:31] <pfred1> but once the G Code is generated can't you just save a copy?
[19:05:37] <MacGalempsy> yeah
[19:05:55] <pfred1> then they don't know how many times you read the file
[19:06:48] <MacGalempsy> pfred1: true, i guess there are ways of bunking the system, but say you get to the point where you are making serious money, then they find out you are cheating, then they could just cut you off without access to your CAD files
[19:08:26] <MacGalempsy> so $60 isnt so bad.
[19:08:35] <pfred1> yeah if you're making $100K+ a year i guess you can just buy a license
[19:08:38] <MacGalempsy> i used to pay over $900 a month for crap software
[19:09:31] <pfred1> I was ready to throw my PC earlier trying to draw a box in QCAD
[19:11:28] <MacGalempsy> who let that guy in here?
[19:15:10] <tommylight> <=== is back, again
[19:15:14] <MacGalempsy> pfred1: is your machine up and cutting now?
[19:18:10] <zeeshan> MacGalempsy: is yours? :D
[19:18:33] <MacGalempsy> :D short answer, no.
[19:18:50] <MacGalempsy> i did get the new circuit board and panel installed yesterday
[19:19:04] <MacGalempsy> but didnt get a chance to work on it today to get it back up and running
[19:19:13] <zeeshan> this is the 5 axis
[19:19:14] <zeeshan> right
[19:19:17] <MacGalempsy> 4
[19:19:20] <zeeshan> ah
[19:19:27] * zeeshan has working on my knife again
[19:19:28] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/B5XOzBI.png
[19:19:31] <zeeshan> looks pretty simple
[19:19:32] <zeeshan> lol
[19:19:37] <zeeshan> i need to do something more to the handle
[19:20:16] <MacGalempsy> the xyz were working ok, but could not get the a to tune. then I realized there was still ripple in the power.
[19:20:56] <MacGalempsy> so the new circuit was too big to fit without it jacking things up, in in a haste I pulled everything....
[19:21:08] <MacGalempsy> seemed like a good idea at the time ;)
[19:21:24] <zeeshan> lol
[19:23:28] <tommylight> <==== waiting to pounce!!!
[19:24:00] <pfred1> MacGalempsy yeah i just pulled the part off it
[19:24:30] <pfred1> I'm going to drill where the collets go by hand though I want the holes a nice fit
[19:24:45] <tommylight> <=== waiting to.........fall asleep, it's 2AM here
[19:27:38] <MacGalempsy> https://flic.kr/p/Q6iDV4
[19:27:56] <MacGalempsy> zeeshan: all I need to do now is mount the servo amps and wire it all back up
[19:28:06] <zeeshan> dooooooooo it
[19:28:18] <zeeshan> what servo amps are you using
[19:28:35] <MacGalempsy> they are copely controls
[19:29:02] <zeeshan> ah i remember you mentioning those before
[19:29:04] <MacGalempsy> oh, this week the guy who engineered my machine joined the retrofit forum
[19:29:15] <MacGalempsy> remember all that trouble I was having with tuning
[19:29:25] <zeeshan> yes
[19:29:43] <MacGalempsy> it is because there were no capacitors after the rectifier
[19:29:51] <zeeshan> thats odd
[19:29:59] <tommylight> yup odd
[19:30:09] <MacGalempsy> its because they were on the original motherboard that I pulled out! lol
[19:30:13] <tommylight> usualy they have them
[19:30:15] <zeeshan> lol
[19:30:19] <zeeshan> user error!
[19:30:23] <tommylight> oh ok
[19:30:24] <MacGalempsy> then when I went to find the board, I couldnt! lol
[19:30:43] <tommylight> that is a 7i77 and a 7i7x ?
[19:30:51] <MacGalempsy> 7i84
[19:31:09] <tommylight> ???
[19:31:29] <MacGalempsy> it is basically a 7i77 minus the servo controls and encoders
[19:31:32] <tommylight> stepgens?
[19:31:42] <tommylight> ah oh
[19:31:54] <tommylight> do not recal seeing it
[19:32:15] <tommylight> wwas not intersted so must have moved over
[19:32:16] <MacGalempsy> i ran out of i/o on the original card because of the ATC and the MPG wheel I wanted to use
[19:32:34] <zeeshan> you used up all 48i/o?!?
[19:32:34] <zeeshan> :D
[19:32:37] <MacGalempsy> I wish the 7i77 had a rj45 jack
[19:32:40] <MacGalempsy> yeah
[19:32:47] <zeeshan> for what
[19:32:57] <zeeshan> you got a diagram?
[19:33:34] <MacGalempsy> the normal machine would have been ok, but the ATC, electric door lock, and the MPG jumped it up
[19:33:45] <MacGalempsy> let me count in the xls file
[19:34:30] <MacGalempsy> when you run mode 3 on the 7i77 you loose some ins
[19:34:39] <MacGalempsy> like 0-3 are analog
[19:34:49] <tommylight> yes
[19:34:50] <MacGalempsy> and 15-19 are for the MPG channels
[19:35:04] <tommylight> yup yup
[19:35:48] <tommylight> hey, i got 80 inputs and 64 outputs on a machine that needs 32 of each
[19:35:57] <MacGalempsy> lol
[19:36:05] <tommylight> i want ot add an mpg
[19:36:36] <tommylight> and some buttons to do stuff that the original machine could not
[19:36:55] <zeeshan> ive been using the mpg at work
[19:36:57] <zeeshan> i dont like it at all
[19:37:05] <zeeshan> keyboard ftw
[19:38:07] <MacGalempsy> now I have a lot of extra i/o and have been trying to figure out what else I need
[19:38:54] <MacGalempsy> 5 open analog, 3 open MPG, 6 ins and 16 outs
[19:39:57] <BeachBumPete> Wow man I came home, sat down, logged on, and crashed on the couch LOL
[19:40:20] <MacGalempsy> sound like you earned your pay for today!
[19:40:37] <tommylight> well Pete, i am about to crash my bed
[19:40:50] <BeachBumPete> actually I had to leave work early because my wife's car had broken down on her. Turned out to have just run out of gas :)
[19:41:00] <tommylight> lol
[19:41:01] <BeachBumPete> I left about an hour early
[19:41:05] <MacGalempsy> bad, but very good.
[19:41:31] <MacGalempsy> my old FJ is that way, when the needle hits E, it really is E
[19:41:41] <tommylight> last 2 days spent hours on getin people out of snow
[19:41:52] <BeachBumPete> well actually she drove my sons car to work today just for fun
[19:42:01] <BeachBumPete> he left it here while he goes to school for the navy
[19:42:02] <MacGalempsy> your the friend with a winch package?
[19:42:13] <MacGalempsy> what does he roll in/
[19:42:18] <tommylight> nope
[19:42:25] <BeachBumPete> its an Infiniti G35
[19:42:28] <tommylight> i own a skoda superB
[19:42:31] <MacGalempsy> sweeeet
[19:42:49] <BeachBumPete> apparently it is a bit sensitive to being low on fuel
[19:42:56] <MacGalempsy> i've had a few of those rev up on me before
[19:43:03] <tommylight> all of them are
[19:43:07] <tommylight> strange
[19:43:54] <MacGalempsy> how dare he leave you the keys without filling it up first ;)
[19:43:59] <BeachBumPete> LOL
[19:44:13] <BeachBumPete> honestly I did not want her to drive it
[19:44:18] <BeachBumPete> but you know how that goes
[19:44:21] <tommylight> well folks, enjoy it, i am shuting down for the day, just after a
[19:44:23] <MacGalempsy> I feel you on that
[19:44:29] <BeachBumPete> gn8 tommy
[19:44:33] <MacGalempsy> laters tommylight
[19:44:37] <tommylight> watching some movie
[19:45:00] <tommylight> nighty night
[19:45:02] <BeachBumPete> got a batch of parts back from my NEW anodizer company the other day
[19:45:13] <MacGalempsy> and?
[19:45:24] * MacGalempsy plays a drum roll
[19:45:31] <BeachBumPete> they looked pretty good
[19:45:41] <MacGalempsy> pics?
[19:45:43] <BeachBumPete> they are hard anodized
[19:46:16] <BeachBumPete> so apparently the colors they provide are not as dark or rich as just color anodized can be
[19:46:21] <BeachBumPete> other than that they look real nice
[19:47:08] <MacGalempsy> im not too familiar with the process, but dont deeper colors require multiple treatments?
[19:47:40] <BeachBumPete> I don't think anodizing allows for multiple treatments
[19:48:10] <BeachBumPete> you are basically creating a hard layer that appears as a bunch of crystallized straws vertically on the surface
[19:48:22] <BeachBumPete> then you introduce color pigment inside those straws
[19:48:39] <BeachBumPete> then you seal the straws to maintain the colorized layer
[19:49:05] <Wolf_> hard ano is thicker and more matt finish
[19:49:25] <MacGalempsy> so there must be a difference in the actual dyes
[19:49:41] <BeachBumPete> http://i.imgur.com/zhdLpC9.jpg
[19:49:46] <Wolf_> looks dull cause thicker oxide or something
[19:50:03] <BeachBumPete> Wolf that is how I understand it as well
[19:50:09] <Wolf_> if I am remembering correctly
[19:50:10] <MacGalempsy> yeah those look good. do you polish the crap out of them first?
[19:51:02] <BeachBumPete> http://i.imgur.com/4mzqA5Q.jpg
[19:51:08] <MacGalempsy> being a mountain biker in the late 90's I love a good anodizing job
[19:51:12] <BeachBumPete> actually no I don't polish them whatsoever
[19:51:34] <BeachBumPete> they are actually given a brushed finish
[19:51:43] <BeachBumPete> thorough deburring
[19:51:48] <BeachBumPete> then anodized
[19:56:43] <pfred1> needs more dirt and grease in the engraved text http://i.imgur.com/xXKhFpp.jpg
[19:57:10] <_methods> plenty of room between collets lol
[19:57:24] <BeachBumPete> ER20?
[19:57:26] <pfred1> _methods these things are tiny
[19:57:29] <pfred1> ER11
[19:57:35] <BeachBumPete> Oh Ok
[19:57:39] <BeachBumPete> they look small
[19:57:44] <pfred1> I shouldhavep ut somethign in the picture for scale
[19:57:51] <BeachBumPete> I have ER32, ER20s
[19:58:08] <pfred1> that's a 2x4 they're leaning up against
[19:58:13] <pfred1> I think?
[19:58:21] <MacGalempsy> paint pen
[19:58:21] <pfred1> no it is skinnier than that
[19:58:29] <MacGalempsy> and a little bit of spirits
[19:58:43] <BeachBumPete> I need to break down and order another set of 5 ERholders
[19:58:49] <MacGalempsy> nice work
[19:58:49] <pfred1> the holes are 7/16s
[19:59:26] <pfred1> I made a smaller one well laid it out and plotted it and ti was too small for my fingers
[19:59:37] <MacGalempsy> I have er20 on the spindle collets and 5c on the 4th axis
[19:59:58] <pfred1> the biggest one in the lower right is 7mm
[20:00:12] <pfred1> the block isn't flat there so the engraving didn't come out
[20:00:19] <BeachBumPete> I have 5c on the fourth as well ;)
[20:00:30] <MacGalempsy> sweet.
[20:00:38] <MacGalempsy> set me some collets!
[20:00:46] <MacGalempsy> send*
[20:01:06] <BeachBumPete> and by fourth I mean my 5c collet closer that I machined into a baby fourth axis LOL
[20:01:26] <BeachBumPete> its more of a fourth fixture hehe
[20:01:28] <MacGalempsy> i have a couple. but promised myself not to buy anymore until the 4th axis actually got tuned
[20:01:39] <BeachBumPete> I have a full set
[20:01:52] <BeachBumPete> but they are not high dollar ones. Seem fine so far
[20:01:52] <MacGalempsy> I never break promises.....to myself, that is
[20:02:29] <BeachBumPete> I need to sit down and program this prototype rail here or I will never get it machined
[20:02:57] <MacGalempsy> zeeshan: how is your lathe coming along?
[20:03:44] <pfred1> BeachBumPete never is a long time
[20:04:09] <BeachBumPete> it sure as hell is
[20:05:18] <pfred1> heck yeah now I can get some more tools into my machine
[20:05:44] <zeeshan> MacGalempsy: still building the powerpack :P)
[20:05:51] <zeeshan> waiting on parts
[20:06:07] <pfred1> me too I have like 3 orders of bits coming
[20:06:24] <zeeshan> what did yo uget
[20:06:39] <MacGalempsy> what is going into the powerpack?
[20:06:56] <pfred1> just some 1/8th end mills then 1-7mm end mills? and something else I forget
[20:07:10] <zeeshan> cute little ends mills
[20:07:10] <zeeshan> :D
[20:07:17] <pfred1> I don't have tools that fit in this little spindle
[20:07:22] * zeeshan hides
[20:07:43] <pfred1> well now i can use some router bits I guess there's a 1/4" collet
[20:08:11] <pfred1> hey I know this is a dinky spindle but it was cheap
[20:08:18] <zeeshan> if i was really rich
[20:08:31] <BeachBumPete> dinky and cheap is no way to build a CNC :)
[20:08:40] <zeeshan> i'd buy me a matsuura
[20:08:45] <pfred1> I tried it out the other day and I setup a job where it just powed into MDF deeper and faster it did OK
[20:08:48] <zeeshan> have you guys seen the 30k rpm spindle eat some aluminum
[20:08:52] <zeeshan> its awesome to watch
[20:08:56] <Wolf_> 10hp spindle or go home?
[20:09:05] <pfred1> yeah the RPMs on this spindle are a big let down
[20:09:35] <pfred1> but I bought it because i couldn't deal with the racket of the router I was using I think that thing needs new bearings?
[20:09:46] <zeeshan> next week im trying their 46000 rpm spindle
[20:10:06] <MacGalempsy> mine only has 7500...
[20:10:46] <pfred1> at least with this spindle I'm cutting jobs on my machine now
[20:11:12] <pfred1> I still like plotting with it though
[20:11:25] <BeachBumPete> mine is only 6k :(
[20:12:03] <pfred1> my mill only goes up to 2500 but at 200 RPM it'll rip stuff in half
[20:12:09] <zeeshan> i wanna try cutting 6061 using a .375 3fl em at 46000 rpm and 800 ipm
[20:12:13] <zeeshan> would look amazing!
[20:17:04] <BeachBumPete> I ran a HAAS that had the 30k spindle and we machined a bit of aluminum and plastic on it. Pretty fast and cut nice but the HP was not crazy
[20:17:32] <zeeshan> typical haas
[20:17:34] <zeeshan> fake hp!!!!!!
[20:18:38] <BeachBumPete> I don't know if that is fair but we never really pushed it that hard
[20:18:50] <BeachBumPete> but it sure ripped thru aluminum pretty fast
[20:19:10] <BeachBumPete> I kinda wish my spindle was 10k but then it has done everything I need thus far
[20:19:20] <zeeshan> you at least have an atc!
[20:19:31] <BeachBumPete> LOL NO I don't
[20:19:32] <zeeshan> i really want a renishaw digital probe
[20:19:33] <zeeshan> and tool setter
[20:19:46] <zeeshan> honestly all my g-code that im sending out to test out the machines
[20:19:52] <zeeshan> have a probing routine now in the header
[20:19:54] <BeachBumPete> I might have a renishaw here soon :0
[20:20:00] <zeeshan> so the machine operator just marks the center of the park
[20:20:06] <zeeshan> eyeball lines it up
[20:20:08] <zeeshan> and cycle start
[20:20:09] <Wolf_> zeeshan: http://i.imgur.com/iXlVnfa.jpg
[20:20:11] <zeeshan> it does everything else itself
[20:20:12] <Wolf_> :P
[20:20:26] <zeeshan> whats that old school wired crap
[20:20:34] <zeeshan> WIFI!
[20:21:06] <MacGalempsy> lol
[20:21:15] <MacGalempsy> zeeshan: better have a cord than nothing at all
[20:21:17] <Wolf_> lasers imo
[20:21:23] <MacGalempsy> lidar
[20:21:26] <zeeshan> we got the RF one
[20:21:36] <BeachBumPete> I would love to have the wireless touch probe and tool setter as on the HAAS machines setup in my VMC
[20:22:00] <MacGalempsy> from watching the tool setter videos, they dont seem like they take too much to make
[20:22:15] <Wolf_> tool setter seems simple to make
[20:22:25] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/16VzIdA.jpg
[20:22:32] <Wolf_> load cell, spring, arduino lol
[20:22:33] <zeeshan> i dunno man
[20:22:35] <MacGalempsy> if you bums would get your lathes together, then you could make some that I will trial for ya
[20:22:35] <zeeshan> all that load cell stuff
[20:23:11] <pfred1> MacGalempsy a lathe wasn't built in a day
[20:23:13] <BeachBumPete> my lathe needs MOR work
[20:23:17] <Wolf_> zeeshan: I think thats a IR data probe
[20:23:20] <zeeshan> no
[20:23:21] <zeeshan> its rf
[20:23:30] <pfred1> things can take time
[20:23:33] <MacGalempsy> I know for a fact that zeeshan has had his for more than a day.
[20:23:57] <Wolf_> so they used the same housing as the IR one? lol
[20:24:08] <MacGalempsy> however, being fair, my cnc is been in posession longer than zeeshan has had his lathe and it doesnt work right now either!
[20:24:17] <zeeshan> hush
[20:24:22] <zeeshan> i got my mill running in 3 months
[20:24:22] <zeeshan> !!!!!!
[20:24:47] <pfred1> tht's what happened with my CNC I put it together used it for a bit then took it apart to upgrade
[20:25:03] <MacGalempsy> damn upgrades
[20:25:04] <zeeshan> Wolf_: the housings are very similar
[20:25:06] <zeeshan> one is the omp600
[20:25:08] <zeeshan> the other is rmp600
[20:25:09] <pfred1> I htink the upgrade took me longer than it took to build it
[20:25:10] <zeeshan> o = optical
[20:25:12] <zeeshan> r = radio
[20:25:23] <zeeshan> http://mtpselector.renishaw.net/media/img/gen/8fb68878689b42f997ccac9823cf2fd6.jpg
[20:25:28] <zeeshan> http://mtpselector.renishaw.net/media/img/gen/def1fbc8e1e14f3cb8c2ca9e15c61e06.jpg
[20:26:20] <MacGalempsy> https://www.renishaw.com/cmmsupport/knowledgebase/media/img/gen/0655e69a60f24bf2a06665daf9c26ea5.gif
[20:26:27] <Wolf_> I still have that mp9 that need helps http://i.imgur.com/vL5jtDf.jpg
[20:27:02] <MacGalempsy> the top comes off, so the plan is to make one to fit the ATC and add the wireless electronics to the design
[20:27:31] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/g5zCK0t.png
[20:27:46] <zeeshan> pretty much the code to automate dialing in the workoffsets
[20:28:10] <MacGalempsy> nice. it would be cool to probe between each routine
[20:28:31] <zeeshan> yes
[20:28:44] <zeeshan> im trying to add the probing and tool setting into largge production run cycles
[20:28:45] <MacGalempsy> but still not sure how one would be able to make it modify the settings along the way
[20:28:53] <zeeshan> thats easy
[20:29:07] <zeeshan> the cycles automatically write to specific registers
[20:29:15] <zeeshan> and you just incoporate that register in your g-code
[20:29:22] <MacGalempsy> can you do that in linuxcnc?
[20:29:28] <zeeshan> i dont see why not!
[20:29:41] <MacGalempsy> it would be interesting to try that out
[20:29:42] <zeeshan> like when you do a g853 to use the tool setter
[20:29:52] <zeeshan> itll touch the height
[20:29:57] <zeeshan> and set the height in the tool table
[20:30:01] <zeeshan> touch the diameter, and set the diameter
[20:30:10] <zeeshan> so if you call a g853 after making 10 parts
[20:30:21] <zeeshan> youre not compensating for wear
[20:30:25] <MacGalempsy> ok
[20:30:26] <zeeshan> not = now
[20:30:32] <malcom2073> Hey zeeshan, you interested in quoting a job for me? :)
[20:30:40] <zeeshan> what is it
[20:30:53] <MacGalempsy> that is what I was wondering how to do cutter diameter whear
[20:30:59] <malcom2073> Small aluminum block 2" by 3.5" by 1/2", like 3-4 operations
[20:31:05] <zeeshan> got a model?
[20:31:12] <malcom2073> Yep, sw2016 or stl?
[20:31:19] <zeeshan> sw
[20:31:24] <malcom2073> PM me your email?
[20:31:47] <MacGalempsy> if the cutter is oriented, then one could measure each flute (at one point) and take the average
[20:32:12] <zeeshan> the way the tool setter works is the tool is run backwards
[20:32:19] <zeeshan> and it touches the setter while moving
[20:32:21] <MacGalempsy> are the arbors on all the renishaws steel, or are some aluminum?
[20:32:25] <zeeshan> so it does that automatically
[20:32:31] <zeeshan> and accounts for runout too at the tip
[20:33:16] <MacGalempsy> I thought it was only for length
[20:33:44] <MacGalempsy> then you trial machine to dial in the diameter
[20:36:39] <zeeshan> MacGalempsy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yap36OW_RT4
[20:36:51] <gregcnc> macgalempsy, that's so 1980
[20:37:02] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghyjlyhaAL0
[20:37:03] <zeeshan> better video
[20:37:47] <BeachBumPete> imagine that....a HAAS
[20:38:45] <pfred1> Du hast mich
[20:38:51] <zeeshan> haas is like the honda civic of the machine world
[20:38:56] <zeeshan> it just works
[20:38:59] <zeeshan> and its cheap!
[20:39:17] <BeachBumPete> I would argue more like the accord
[20:39:17] <gregcnc> they still charge for stuff like lookahead
[20:39:22] <pfred1> a real chick magnet huh?
[20:39:31] <zeeshan> guess what that analogy would make the tormach?
[20:39:44] <MacGalempsy> lol\
[20:39:48] <pfred1> tormach is LinuxCNC now isn't it?
[20:39:51] <MacGalempsy> yeah, chevy?
[20:39:53] <zeeshan> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/Mzk4WDUwMA==/z/JJ0AAOxyaTxTVlAw/$_35.JPG?set_id=2
[20:40:04] <malcom2073> Not even radio flyer
[20:40:06] <malcom2073> noname chinese brand
[20:40:14] <MacGalempsy> TorCrotch
[20:40:15] <Wolf_> pfred1: sorta
[20:40:19] <malcom2073> Tormach guys were at a machinest show near here last weekend, had some cool looking machines
[20:40:50] <pfred1> they still look like retrofitted Sieg X3s to me
[20:40:59] <gregcnc> https://www.instagram.com/p/BPVdXaHjjxt/ but it's designed in the land of chese
[20:41:25] <Wolf_> pfred1: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/pathpilot
[20:41:50] <pfred1> Wolf_ good to see the forum back up and running
[20:42:55] <gregcnc> ima go to their open house this year
[20:46:54] <pfred1> the Axis interface is OK to me
[20:50:37] <zeeshan> gregcnc: whyman
[20:50:42] <zeeshan> WHY would you do that to us?!!!!!!?!?
[20:50:56] <zeeshan> what did i do to you to deserve that?! :{
[20:51:39] <gregcnc> bah why not, nothing else intersting machining wise happens around here as I didn't go to IMTS
[20:51:52] <zeeshan> where are you again?
[20:52:04] <gregcnc> chicago
[20:52:26] <zeeshan> come to my work
[20:52:31] <zeeshan> i show you the real open house!
[20:53:43] <gregcnc> I don't want to have a wall built behind me while I'm in canada
[20:53:53] <MacGalempsy> anyone have a number on how many users have downloaded a copy of linuxcnc?
[20:54:07] <zeeshan> rofl
[20:54:40] <gregcnc> far more than have actually followed through and built something
[20:54:43] <Wolf_> has canada started building a southern wall yet?
[20:55:20] <MacGalempsy> lol. I know, im trying to figure something out
[20:55:29] <MacGalempsy> you think like 1 million downloads?
[20:55:30] <zeeshan> rofl gregcnc
[20:55:52] <gregcnc> our I'll get taxed on my way back in
[20:56:01] <zeeshan> hey how does that work
[20:56:04] <zeeshan> when i buy stuff in usa
[20:56:06] <zeeshan> they charged me tax
[20:56:12] <zeeshan> can i claim that back
[20:56:21] <zeeshan> irs aint got nothing on me!
[20:56:31] <MacGalempsy> i think they ripped you off.
[20:56:41] <MacGalempsy> its called NAFTA (for now heh)
[20:56:53] <zeeshan> man if nafta comes in
[20:56:56] <MacGalempsy> the only state that will charge you tax is CA (I think)
[20:56:57] <zeeshan> it might actually help canada
[20:57:02] <zeeshan> a lot
[20:57:03] <zeeshan> er
[20:57:06] <zeeshan> nafta gets cancelled i mean
[20:57:08] <gregcnc> i don't know, local sales tax is getting crazy
[20:57:57] <gregcnc> other than maple syrup what does canada produce?
[20:58:03] <gregcnc> and trees
[20:58:11] <zeeshan> you'd be suprised :)
[20:58:19] <zeeshan> i just work in one small industry
[20:58:30] <zeeshan> and i can see how much we sell to usa
[20:58:40] <gregcnc> i read the hobby machining guys can't even find sources for barstock in canada?
[20:58:43] <MacGalempsy> they are the largest mining country in the world
[20:58:54] <MacGalempsy> and own more mines in the americas than anyone
[20:58:54] <gregcnc> bombardier is a big one
[20:59:00] <zeeshan> gregcnc: they must not be looking hard
[20:59:07] <zeeshan> then again im spoiled
[20:59:09] <zeeshan> i live in ontario
[20:59:18] <gregcnc> mail order even
[20:59:31] <zeeshan> i never understood people who ordered metal in the mail
[20:59:37] <zeeshan> !
[21:00:09] <gregcnc> if you have a local place that stock anything other than 1018 or 6061 you're lucky
[21:00:28] <jdh> I ordered some 2" steel bar
[21:00:38] <gregcnc> and will sell you like 6" at a time
[21:00:50] <gregcnc> plenty of places to buy a truckload here
[21:00:53] <MacGalempsy> zeeshan: here is your probe http://www.ebay.com/itm/LAST-ONE-1-Renishaw-Probe-head-See-pics-Price-is-for-ONE-head-M5-thread-/142229784221?hash=item211d8e469d:g:IkEAAOSwP~tW2e2B
[21:00:54] <jdh> first time was a big empty box with a hole in it
[21:01:02] <gregcnc> hah
[21:01:16] <jdh> secodn time, they used a stiff mailing tube, with paper tape on each end.
[21:01:26] <jdh> (it arrived empty also)
[21:02:02] <gregcnc> I ordered a 6 foot piece of aluminum hex from mcmaster once. came it a 6 foot box or tube for $6 or $7 shipping
[21:02:27] <jdh> the first two were from amazon. I ended up getting it from mcmaster, well packed.
[21:02:38] <jdh> still in the garage, I never did use it.
[21:03:06] <zeeshan> i got access to all metal
[21:03:13] <gregcnc> yeah I have a bunhc of piece that were purchased prematurely, but aged metal is better isn't it?
[21:03:13] <zeeshan> fomr stress proof to 8020
[21:03:26] <zeeshan> i havent come acrosss something i cant buy!
[21:03:33] <zeeshan> actually thats a lie
[21:03:38] <zeeshan> cause ive come across metric profiles
[21:03:40] <zeeshan> that we cant get
[21:04:10] <zeeshan> wow that's damn cheap for shipping that long ass piece
[21:04:28] <gregcnc> probably 10 years ago now
[21:04:46] <gregcnc> mcmaster must have a great deal with UPS though
[21:05:06] <jdh> the atlanta warehouse is colocated with UPS
[21:08:02] <pfred1> I sanded my collet storage block and I think it came up real nice
[21:12:57] <zeeshan> collet storage block?
[21:13:03] <zeeshan> like a wood one with holes?
[21:15:31] <pfred1> zeeshan I used plastic
[21:15:45] <pfred1> wood can be funny with moisture
[21:16:00] <pfred1> check it out http://i.imgur.com/VSfkEiS.jpg
[21:16:16] <pfred1> this time I put a coin in the picture for scale
[21:18:20] <Wolf_> your collets shrunk, may need to heat your shop better
[21:18:52] <zeeshan> cure
[21:18:53] <zeeshan> cute
[21:18:54] <zeeshan> lol
[21:19:00] <zeeshan> i need to make myself a block like that
[21:19:14] <zeeshan> its just straight through holes?
[21:19:17] <zeeshan> or did you taper em
[21:19:24] <pfred1> nah they're blind
[21:19:37] <pfred1> they fit kind of snug though
[21:19:48] <Wolf_> I need to make one of those as well, for er32
[21:20:06] <Wolf_> except my set is like 20 or something
[21:20:11] <pfred1> they came in these plastic sleeves that were hard as hell to open
[21:20:46] <pfred1> my collet set for my mill is in a box and i just put the shanks of tools into the collets to see which fit
[21:21:34] <pfred1> my CNC machine has pretty neat handwriting, doesn't it?
[21:21:51] <Wolf_> seen better :P
[21:21:58] <pfred1> for $300?
[21:22:22] <Wolf_> I think I have $400 in to the one mill lol
[21:22:44] <pfred1> this one is doing what i wanted it to do
[21:23:03] <pfred1> I think I'm done with it for a while
[21:23:43] <Wolf_> here, have a laugh http://i.imgur.com/Y3HQkf1.jpg
[21:23:50] <pfred1> except for getting tooling for it
[21:24:05] <malcom2073> Wolf_: It's gonna fall over
[21:24:14] <Wolf_> http://i.imgur.com/4KdVGMf.jpg
[21:24:27] <pfred1> what's up with them stretch limo motors?
[21:24:40] <Wolf_> everyone thinks thats a solid block in the pic lol
[21:25:06] <Wolf_> overkill steppers, 420oz nema23
[21:25:10] <malcom2073> Those are really long 23's heh
[21:25:13] <pfred1> I have never seen such long motors before are they quadruple stacks?
[21:25:47] <Wolf_> weird ,I have 10 like that lol
[21:26:15] <Wolf_> http://i.imgur.com/2bHc5Ip.jpg much stack
[21:26:18] <pfred1> you changed out the lead screws for ball screws?
[21:26:43] <Wolf_> x1 has leads still
[21:27:06] <Wolf_> x2 is ball
[21:27:13] <pfred1> you know once you pull the rotor out a stepper motor is done right?
[21:27:32] <pfred1> the rotor degausses
[21:28:52] <Wolf_> yeah, I heard that
[21:28:56] <pfred1> i guess that motor is a hex stack
[21:29:07] <pfred1> yeah the motor body acts like magnet keepers
[21:29:12] <Wolf_> paid 1.38 for the stepper+driver
[21:29:29] <pfred1> a dollar thirty eight?
[21:29:42] <CaptHindsight> where does the magnetism go?
[21:29:54] <pfred1> /sub Wolf_ TheBargainHunter
[21:30:04] <CaptHindsight> Gausses Ghost?
[21:30:37] <Wolf_> https://www.dropbox.com/s/jmk8yg0of0q5jpu/noobegg.png?dl=0 the nema23 were mislabeled, not 78 or 156oz
[21:30:45] <pfred1> but the whole pull rotor out and kill the motor deal just begs the question how does the factory put the rotors in?
[21:31:36] <CaptHindsight> maybe they add the magnetism later
[21:31:47] <pfred1> Wolf_ that's an awesome deal
[21:32:33] <Wolf_> that was a while ago, was fun trying to catch them in stock lol
[21:32:46] <pfred1> I bet they sell out fast
[21:33:14] <pfred1> you can't get floppy motors for that kind of money
[21:34:26] <Wolf_> we were guessing that the china companys listing bot fucked up badly
[21:34:46] <Wolf_> was on newegg and walmart marketplace
[21:35:23] <pfred1> bad RAM
[21:35:44] <pfred1> it is certainly a unique bargain
[21:36:21] <Wolf_> one of the other guys had me beat, he got like 30-40 nema 23s
[21:36:37] <pfred1> wow
[21:36:37] <malcom2073> I got 4 from there
[21:36:41] <malcom2073> i bought 8, but 4 never showed up
[21:36:47] <malcom2073> ContractPilot from here for like, 40
[21:36:58] <Wolf_> and psu lol
[21:37:02] <malcom2073> Yeah heh
[21:37:11] <Kevin`> pfred1: have you ever tried that, or do you have a reference on it? doesn't make complete sense
[21:37:14] <malcom2073> But hey, even with half of them never showing up, mine were still a steal haha,
[21:37:16] <Wolf_> I got 2 40v psu for like $6
[21:37:34] <Wolf_> I got a refund for damaged motors :P
[21:37:34] <pfred1> Kevin` tried what?
[21:37:58] <Wolf_> motor degauss
[21:37:58] <Kevin`> pfred1: degaussing a stepper motor by removing the rotor without shock or heat
[21:38:15] <pfred1> Kevin` no but it makes sense
[21:38:39] <Kevin`> not to me, it's just a brushless motor with strangely shaped magnets
[21:38:40] <Wolf_> idk, it was a total bitch getting that rotor back in
[21:38:54] <pfred1> Wolf_ how did it run?
[21:39:07] <pfred1> I hear they run but there's no torque anymore
[21:39:10] <Wolf_> idk its in a stack of them on the bench lol
[21:39:28] <CaptHindsight> I've taken steppers apart and rebuilt them without issue
[21:39:28] <pfred1> like 90% of the torque is just gone
[21:39:30] <Wolf_> if one of them sucks, I know what happened
[21:40:36] <malcom2073> pfred1: They "shuffle" the magnetic fields of the rotor after they're in the housing so everything lines up right supposidly
[21:40:37] <pfred1> or maybe the poles change? something happens ot the rotors when you pull them out
[21:40:39] <CaptHindsight> I've overheated them to the point of them losing >90% of their torque
[21:41:10] <malcom2073> I'd assume looser tolerance steppers wouldn't have the issue, since they don't have the magnets packed as close
[21:41:14] <CaptHindsight> without windings being shorted
[21:41:33] <pfred1> yeah but those motors are not going to perform so well anyways
[21:41:43] <CaptHindsight> tends to be when over 125C for a while
[21:41:58] <pfred1> that's what you get with highr end stepper motors closer fit
[21:45:49] <Wolf_> don’t think that stepper falls in the high end range :P
[21:45:52] <Wolf_> http://i.imgur.com/VogeASe.jpg
[21:46:42] <pfred1> Wolf_ the leads coming out look a little mangled to me
[21:47:00] <Wolf_> yeah, shipping damage
[21:47:22] <pfred1> ah ha
[21:47:32] <pfred1> that why you took it apart?
[21:47:41] <Wolf_> and now I know how to find that one again lol
[21:47:43] <Kevin`> did some internets, best answer i've seen is that it can happen to some stepper motors, and will depend on the exact material used for the magnet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnet_keeper not much info in any case
[21:48:09] <pfred1> Kevin` it is still sketchy
[21:48:33] <Wolf_> so, does it re-gauss when you put it back =P
[21:48:46] <pfred1> not as far a i know
[21:48:58] <Wolf_> yeah, I was kidding…
[21:49:04] <pfred1> I honestly don't know how manufacturers put them together if it is true
[21:50:14] <pfred1> Wolf_ you ever wire 2 stepper motors to each other then turn the shaft on one?
[21:50:24] <Kevin`> keeping it in iron sleeve while/after magnetizing it and transferring it directly from that to the motor housing would be sufficient. or as others have said, magnetizing it in place
[21:51:14] <Kevin`> in-place seems silly because you would need to degauss the iron case, but the whole situation is silly
[21:51:35] <pfred1> Kevin` stepper motors are pretty silly
[22:08:24] <chopper791> Hello everyone.... Doing a little looking around for computer options. I know that the prefered J1800 and J1900 based computers work well for ethernet from what I am told. I was thinking though about other potential options for using LCNC with ethernet. I am interested in using this processor Intel® Celeron® Processor N3150. Has anybody use this before with ethernet and had good results?
[22:10:09] <Kevin`> chopper791: it's the bios and vga bios that matters most to performance, not the cpu
[22:10:42] <chopper791> Got ya.... This is the pc I was thinking about.
[22:10:43] <chopper791> http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/productdetails/inspiron-20-3052-aio
[22:12:17] <chopper791> What I am looking for is a simple clutter free operators station for a cnc router I am working on. I am not a big fan of multiple boxes. I would like to keep it done to about two boxes max. Having a electronics box, pc case, monitor, etc just seem cluttered up to me.
[22:14:27] <chopper791> I am also looking at this unit and then just mountng it to the back of the monitor. https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856164024&cm_re=j1900-_-56-164-024-_-Product
[22:15:17] <pfred1> the old Intel Atom boards usedto run LinuxCNC real nice
[22:15:40] <pfred1> people were building those right into their control boxes
[22:15:44] <Wolf_> newer mobo may have issues with hardware not being supported
[22:16:00] <pfred1> yeah I hear the new Atom boards have issues
[22:16:11] <chopper791> I was going to build the kernal for the new equipment from my understanding.
[22:16:36] <Wolf_> I’m running a Mint 17.3(?) build for that reason
[22:16:52] <pfred1> what's so great about Mint?
[22:17:17] <Wolf_> looks pretty
[22:17:20] <pfred1> Mint is just a butchered version of Debian
[22:17:51] <pfred1> you can run any DE or WM on any distro
[22:17:52] <Wolf_> newer kernel then lcnc cd
[22:17:56] <chopper791> I heard mint is being developed more then ubuntu is and is better to work with on new hardware. Something like that anyway
[22:18:02] <pfred1> you can change kernels too
[22:18:10] <Wolf_> ^ what chopper said
[22:18:45] <Wolf_> to me mint is good because there was directions to build a Lcnc box with it =P
[22:19:26] <pfred1> I came this close >.< to getting LinuxCNC to run on Gentoo once
[22:19:36] <pfred1> that was a bitch and a half
[22:19:52] <Wolf_> plus there is a few others running Mint, so if I mess it up, I can ask for help…
[22:19:54] <Kevin`> chopper791: all-in-one is likely to have very poor realtime performance, like most laptops
[22:20:08] <pfred1> I'd have had it if i knew about that one kernel configuration option
[22:20:29] <Kevin`> chopper791: they offload hardware control into the bios, which preempts the operating system whenever it wants
[22:20:47] <chopper791> I will look into mint..... Basically I need to use hardware that will not go out of style quickly (I know it s the pc world). This will allow me to keep things as uniform across the board as possible without havnig to jump from MB to MB every few months it seems.
[22:21:21] <Wolf_> linux seem to like old shit
[22:21:33] <Wolf_> seems*
[22:21:33] <pfred1> chopper791 once your controller works you can just leave it
[22:22:07] <pfred1> all I do on my controller box is run my machine
[22:22:19] <chopper791> I need to reproduce these controllers multiple times over.
[22:22:20] <Wolf_> my x1 LCNC driven mill is running on a 12yr old AMD system
[22:22:26] <Kevin`> chopper791: you know the default distro for linuxcnc is still i386 right? there's a *reason* for that
[22:22:51] <chopper791> Yes I know ;)
[22:22:55] <Wolf_> might be older then 12yrs lol
[22:22:57] <pfred1> I thought Debian stopped supporting i386?
[22:23:00] <chopper791> I like being difficult
[22:23:10] <pfred1> I think it is i486 now
[22:23:17] <Kevin`> chopper791: very few windows pcs are made with any consideration at all for realtime these days. some industrial systems are, as well as some (not all!) cheaper arm systems
[22:23:23] <pfred1> they're going to drop that too
[22:24:36] <pfred1> Wolf_ a lot of AMD CPUs have better lateny than Intel
[22:24:45] <Kevin`> chopper791: running with a random consumer motherboard is a crapshoot unless you get one that somebody else has tried first. with a laptop or aio your chances are much lower for the system being designed well
[22:24:57] <chopper791> This is why trying to find a pc that I can use is difficult. I do not like chasing MB manufactures down to find what the new replacmnt board is and if it will work. That is why I was looking for a long term option.
[22:25:03] <Kevin`> with a normal desktop mobo they are still decently low. 30% maybe?
[22:25:29] <pfred1> latency is a funny thing
[22:25:57] <Kevin`> chopper791: the realtime market still exists and will continue to do so for embedded industrial boards.
[22:26:08] <pcw_home> If you are not generating step pulses (so you only need a servo thread) its hard to find a system that cant be made to work
[22:26:54] <chopper791> Using a 7i76e
[22:27:14] <Kevin`> chopper791: there are commercial manufacturers that use linuxcnc, do you think they buy random dell computers? =p
[22:27:30] <Wolf_> probably
[22:27:32] <Jymmm> yes
[22:27:32] <chopper791> Some do
[22:27:38] <pfred1> they buy refurbished ones
[22:27:45] <pcw_home> Random dell/HP are fine
[22:27:53] <pfred1> I use HP
[22:28:03] <Wolf_> probably not random, probably pick cheapest
[22:28:15] <chopper791> ^what he said
[22:28:21] <pfred1> I paid $6 for the PC I run LinuxCNC on
[22:28:26] <Jymmm> But... most of those are not laptops/nano pc's etc.
[22:28:49] <chopper791> PCW.. This would be a viable option http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/productdetails/inspiron-20-3052-aio since I am using a 7i76e?
[22:28:57] <pcw_home> some modern MBs are quite good:
[22:28:59] <pcw_home> http://freeby.mesanet.com/h97-g3258-preemt-rt.png
[22:29:10] <Jymmm> pfred1: but you're a cheap bastard and totally ripped off that 7yo kid!
[22:29:20] <Kevin`> chopper791: using hardware step generation reduces the latency guarantee required somewhat, but it's only by a factor of 10 or so. bad boards can delay for a significant portion of a second, and it only has to happen once to ruin the loop
[22:29:41] <pfred1> Jymmm actually I took advantage of the elderly
[22:29:56] <pfred1> hey they priced it
[22:30:12] <Jymmm> pfred1: ah, my bad
[22:30:16] <Kevin`> chopper791: AIOs are built like laptops, laptops don't work.
[22:30:45] <pfred1> I was bummed out they didn't have any PCs for me to buy last year
[22:31:00] <Kevin`> chopper791: don't think of that ethernet interface as something you connect to your home network, or wifi, or even a switch, btw. you connect it directly to the ethernet interface on a computer so it never drops a packet and has perfectly consistant delivery time
[22:31:10] <pcw_home> Some laptops are OK
[22:31:12] <pcw_home> http://freeby.mesanet.com/e6420.png
[22:31:35] <Jymmm> pfred1: Actually, i did that to a 14yo'ish kid. He was selling laptops overpriced, but had a squeezebox and was asking $15 for it, I offered $10 and he accepted. =)
[22:31:39] <chopper791> Kevin . It would be connected directly to PC
[22:32:06] <Kevin`> sure, some, but it's not common
[22:32:18] <pfred1> Jymmm it never hurts to ask
[22:32:22] <pcw_home> its quite common
[22:32:26] <Kevin`> my laptop was 100 times worse than my *media center pc* in those tests
[22:32:46] <pcw_home> on what kernel?
[22:33:09] <Kevin`> pcw_home: booted from the livecd image for that
[22:33:20] <Kevin`> so, rtai at whatever oldish version
[22:33:33] <Jymmm> pfred1: True, which I did. But I knew the REAL cost of it, aint it wasn't $10 =)
[22:34:03] <pcw_home> Newer Preempt-RT will often beat older RTAI on new hardware
[22:34:54] <Kevin`> fwiw, a virtual machine was measured 500000 times worse. not sure how that even happens, probably a mismatched assumption in clocksource behavior
[22:36:22] <pcw_home> chopper791 that all-in-one might be OK (the Zotac Ci323 I have is also N3150 based and it runs Our Ethernet cards fine)
[22:37:10] <pcw_home> you need a fairly new kernel for a N3150 (the liveCD wont even boot)
[22:37:20] <pfred1> gawd
[22:38:18] <pcw_home> I just installed mint 18, Preempt-RT4.8.X, LinuxCNC uspace etc
[22:39:28] <chopper791> PCW_home: The dual lans would be nice
[22:39:34] <pcw_home> LinuxCNC still has some minor issues with Mint18, Ubuntu 16.04 and contemporaries
[22:39:53] <pcw_home> I think Mint17.x was less trouble
[22:40:26] <chopper791> The MB in that Zotac is what size itx?
[22:40:37] <pcw_home> much smaller
[22:40:54] <pcw_home> about 100 mm sq
[22:41:21] <pfred1> pcw_home do you sell an integrated system?
[22:41:30] <chopper791> What form factor would that be?
[22:41:32] <pcw_home> the whole thing is about 4x4x2.5"
[22:41:47] <pcw_home> Vesa mount
[22:42:34] <pcw_home> there are many of these Mini PCs, NUCs, whatever
[22:43:17] <chopper791> Wanted to check out just getting the MB only. Not sure what they are called.
[22:43:32] <pfred1> SBC
[22:43:59] <chopper791> Thats right... Thank for the reminder
[22:44:23] <Kevin`> chopper791: there's no useful standard below mini-itx, those are all custom. fortunately you don't really need anything else inside the case other than a little ssd, so consider it one part
[22:44:30] <pfred1> single board computer but the form factor helps too
[22:44:44] <pcw_home> In general I dont think the Mini-PCs have any standard and I dont think they are often sold without the case
[22:44:44] <Kevin`> the case goes where the board goes
[22:45:09] <chopper791> Wish a Pi was a viable option
[22:45:40] <chopper791> Even a cubieboard
[22:45:43] <pfred1> these mini-itx boards are so tiny I don't see why folks need stuff any smaller
[22:46:42] <Wolf_> could be smaller… http://i.imgur.com/T9rvLuU.jpg
[22:48:36] <roycroft> because apple
[22:48:41] <pcw_home> a lot of the HP USFFs are nice for Ethernet (from DC7800 to DC8300 about $50 to $200)
[22:48:54] <Kevin`> chopper791: systems similar to the pi ARE a viable option. the pi is less desirable because it has binary bios components, but that's actually rare on arm (aside from video)
[22:49:13] <Kevin`> chopper791: pi actually has better realtime performance than most pcs, even given ^
[22:50:28] <chopper791> Something like a Pi, cubieboard, etc would be great as they do not change that often unlike regular MB do.
[22:50:48] <chopper791> I have heard nothing but horro stories about LCNC on Pi and BBB
[22:50:53] <pcw_home> Yep they are shit as platforms
[22:51:03] <chopper791> Which keeps me away from them
[22:51:33] <pfred1> I'm hoping ARM gets there someday
[22:52:00] <Kevin`> the cpu performance on arm isn't quite there yet to run a UI, except on high end cell phone processors that change faster than pcs
[22:52:01] <chopper791> PCW... You guys need to make an embedded solution. This would solve the problem 100%
[22:52:11] <pcw_home> as soon as they figure out all the hardware/kernel bugs the come out with a new incompatible SOC
[22:52:53] <pcw_home> which is fine for their main market = consumer crap with a 6 month lifetime
[22:53:41] <Kevin`> if you get a nice non-phone soc that has been out for 5 years and will be around for another 15, it'll work just fine for controlling a cnc machine. with a remote UI, that might even be a viable path
[22:54:05] <Kevin`> two seperate computers, one to run the servo loop and one to run X
[22:54:31] <pcw_home> no need unless you have a much faster than 1 KHz servo loop
[22:55:14] <chopper791> I need to narrow this mess down and find a long term solution. I hate jumping from MB to MB depending on if supplier has them or what new came out. One reason I was looking at dell. Even though they change things around a bit they stay close to the same all the time.
[22:56:47] <tiwake> pfred1: AMD was working on the A1100, but hasent released it yet as they seemed to have focused all of their resources on Ryzen
[22:56:50] <Kevin`> that's probably viable if you have the volume to order their entire line every few years to find which is compatible
[22:57:14] <pcw_home> I think the A1100 is dead
[22:57:37] <pfred1> I thought AMD was dead
[22:57:48] <Kevin`> chopper791: IMO you should TALK to an industrial pc supplier, as they exist for exactly this purpose.. parts that exist after they are obsolete
[22:57:49] <pcw_home> its been close
[22:57:52] <pfred1> circling the drain at least
[22:58:43] <tiwake> the A1100 might stay in a state of development thing... but I think they will pick it back up and maybe release its sequel. there is at least one system I know of being sold with the A1100 right now
[22:58:46] <chopper791> I know I should at triple the price..... :-(
[22:59:21] <pcw_home> On the other hand, in my experience it is difficult to find a recent PC that will not run a 1 KHz servo loop adequately
[22:59:48] <tiwake> pcw_home: does that include server systems?
[22:59:59] <pcw_home> for Ethernet with out hardware, 500 usec or so of latency is OK
[23:00:36] <pcw_home> Some Xeons have really excellent latency
[23:01:32] <pcw_home> BUT it doesn't really matter if you are only running the servo loop
[23:02:58] <Kevin`> chopper791: if you want to try the dell thing, pick a desktop (not laptop, not aio), from their business line (otherwise you'll lose the whole *exists after 6 months* thing, plus they are better), using a *real* cpu (cpu doesn't matter for latency, but you'll kick yourself for sticking to atom), with as few features and as cheap as possible (features add code and code adds latency)
[23:04:56] <pcw_home> For our Ethernet hardware make sure it has a Intel or Realtek MAC
[23:04:58] <pcw_home> (Atheros and broadcom are flakey)
[23:05:57] <pcw_home> probably because they are so rare that the realtime patches for their drivers are not tested or dont even exist
[23:08:03] <chopper791> http://www.logicsupply.com/de3815tykhe-s/ Found this
[23:08:07] <pcw_home> also no Broadcom Wireless, USB wireless/Ethernet dongles are good for getting network access on a 1 Ethernet box
[23:08:43] <Wolf_> mint kernel ok with intel wifi card?
[23:10:39] <Kevin`> intel has all their secret sauce offloaded to a second cpu, unlike the x64 binary broadcom uses, I would expect few problems. well, aside from the lack of any features common to both =p
[23:11:08] <Wolf_> lol ok
[23:11:50] <pcw_home> I've got a Intel MiniPCIE card in something, but dont recal if it was OK or not for realtime
[23:12:32] <Wolf_> lol, guess I find out the hard way
[23:14:13] <pcw_home> Just know that Broadcom sucked both for wireless and wired
[23:15:00] <pcw_home> on intel Ethernet you need turn off IRQ coalescing
[23:15:05] <chopper791> Kevin.... I will have o think about this some more. I just want to standardize my PC.
[23:16:02] <chopper791> Keep it simple for me and the end user if I need to service the unit over the phone or remote in.
[23:16:32] <Kevin`> you'd need to turn that off on anything that supports it, it's a direct latency -> bandwidth tradeoff by nature. likely the others just don't support it on a non-server chip =p
[23:17:52] <pcw_home> The realtek driver does not support it (and the intel driver support it for all of their newer chips)
[23:18:55] <pcw_home> at least all GigE chips
[23:19:01] <Wolf_> well, my 1900Q-itx has a pci-e intel 7260 wifi card and realtek ethernet
[23:19:18] <Wolf_> hopefully it works out
[23:20:20] <pcw_home> should (and easy enough to use a USB wireless dongel if the Intel doesn't work out)
[23:20:29] <pcw_home> dongle
[23:21:25] <pcw_home> I think I may try this MB
[23:21:26] <chopper791> I am going to give an Industrial PC company a call tomorrow and discuss options. Thank you everyone and also thank PCW for getting my order out so quick. Top notch service like usual.
[23:21:26] <pcw_home> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157614&cm_re=j1900_server-_-13-157-614-_-Product
[23:22:09] <Kevin`> that's cute
[23:22:55] <pcw_home> can run from a laptop brick
[23:23:11] <Kevin`> last I tried it ast* had extremely poor performance for gui on linux. not sure how they made it work on windows (presumably it can SOMEHOW do 2d accelleration)
[23:23:18] <Kevin`> that's a good chance that has improved by now
[23:23:23] <Wolf_> thats pretty cool
[23:26:22] <Kevin`> do they make one of those with ecc ram?
[23:26:43] <Kevin`> it would make a nice low-end anything
[23:27:21] <pcw_home> yeah but avoton and more$
[23:29:32] <pcw_home> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA4S852A0836&cm_re=avoton-_-13-157-475-_-Product
[23:33:19] <Wolf_> many sata
[23:54:02] <Kevin`> too many more $. you can get a proper xeon-based system for that
[23:54:11] <Kevin`> :(