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[02:33:14] <Deejay> moin
[02:44:42] <pink_vampire> hi Deejay
[02:44:46] <pink_vampire> XXCoder: /
[02:44:49] <pink_vampire> ?
[02:48:18] <Wolf_> ^.^
[02:52:47] <pink_vampire> hi Wolf_
[02:53:01] <Wolf_> hello
[02:53:19] <pink_vampire> how was your holiday?
[02:54:37] <Wolf_> was good, except for the craigslist ad for a VMC I was waiting on a reply on was deleted and never replied
[02:55:44] <Wolf_> how was yours?
[03:04:33] <Jymmm> pcw_home: You feel it? 5.8
[03:07:02] <pink_vampire> here it was very nice, i did some tests with 3d machining
[03:07:12] <pink_vampire> Wolf_:
[03:08:37] <Wolf_> nice
[03:10:40] <pink_vampire> i'm trying to understand how to display static image in pyvcp
[03:26:24] <Wolf_> thats a realm I know nothing about yet...
[04:46:34] <XXCoder> hey pink_vampire
[05:15:27] <pink_vampire> hi XXCoder
[05:15:32] <XXCoder> hows things
[05:15:39] <XXCoder> man work today was really boring
[05:16:01] <XXCoder> way fewer staff and very slow parts in cnc machines means Im just reading 90% of time
[05:16:53] <pink_vampire> like my old days with my machine.
[05:17:42] <pink_vampire> now i can run it much much faster, and finish stuff in few minuets instead of hours
[05:17:53] <XXCoder> nice :)
[05:18:04] <XXCoder> I remember watching your machine make those t nuts, very slow
[05:18:12] <XXCoder> it was like mill was dancing around it
[05:18:25] <pink_vampire> it was 50mm/min
[05:18:56] <pink_vampire> now i'm cutting the same material in 390 mm/min
[05:19:32] <pink_vampire> 8 times faster!
[05:19:52] <XXCoder> forgot what cause you have to low low feed rate? was it bad z rails?
[05:21:25] <pink_vampire> normal code vs hsm
[05:21:48] <XXCoder> hmm interesting
[05:22:22] <pink_vampire> now the z is .... :(
[05:24:21] <pink_vampire> you basically cut very deep like the full length of the endmill, and put very lite side load on the cutter.
[05:27:39] <XXCoder> cool
[05:29:59] <pink_vampire> you have to calculate the chip load.
[05:30:44] <pink_vampire> and then you can try to push the feedrate abit more.
[05:30:52] <XXCoder> heh yea need to learn those stuff
[05:31:48] <pink_vampire> how do you make gcode at work?
[05:31:56] <XXCoder> thankfully I dont lol
[05:31:59] <XXCoder> programmers do
[05:32:26] <pink_vampire> you just make the setup?
[05:33:04] <jthornton> morning
[05:33:09] <XXCoder> yeah, though I rarely do that now. 5 million dollar cell boss gets nerious about that
[05:33:16] <XXCoder> hey super jt
[05:34:29] <jthornton> what's up this morning
[05:34:48] <XXCoder> work was really broing as predicted heh
[05:34:50] <XXCoder> boring
[05:35:47] <Tom_L> hey
[05:35:56] <jthornton> hey
[05:36:43] <XXCoder> yo
[05:36:52] <jthornton> I think the old motherboard I built the server with has a bad cpu... going to try another one
[05:37:57] <Tom_L> can't say i've ever run across a bad cpu yet
[05:38:41] <Tom_L> had one they forgot to remove the sticker on the bottom and had been running that way for years
[05:38:43] <jthornton> says Kernel panic - not syncing shutting down cpus
[05:39:03] <Tom_L> sticker was burnt off but it still works
[05:39:08] <jthornton> this one ran a bit with a loose heat sink
[05:42:09] <jthornton> I have another newer mb that I thought was bad but turned out the hd was bad I think
[05:59:48] <jthornton> month alignment fixed
[06:10:16] <miss0r> Meh. Having some issues with my drillpress. It seems no matter what I do, I get 0.1mm runout on the drill holder
[06:10:37] <XXCoder> hey
[06:10:39] <miss0r> and that 0.1mm is after I have taken everything apart and cleaned it.
[06:10:45] <miss0r> hey XXCoder
[06:10:51] <XXCoder> isnt that pretty damn good for drill press
[06:11:24] <miss0r> I don't know.. I don't like it. lets say I put in a long reamer in there.
[06:11:36] <miss0r> that 0.1mm is right at the end of the chuck
[06:12:05] <miss0r> 0.01 I would accept. perhaps even 0.02, but no more than that
[06:12:06] <_methods> is it drilling oversize?
[06:12:43] <miss0r> _methods: no, the only place I have had problems with the runout is when I run a "chamfer" on a drilled hole
[06:13:32] <_methods> well i probably wouldn't lose too much sleep over it then
[06:13:43] <_methods> a reamer will follow the hole you've drilled
[06:14:02] <miss0r> that is true. Still something that annoys me alot :]
[06:14:19] <_methods> hahah
[06:14:21] <_methods> can't help you there
[06:14:30] <_methods> that damn machinist OCD kickin in
[06:14:38] <miss0r> runout is actualy the reason I bought this drillpress, because the old one was very suckie :)
[06:14:40] <XXCoder> lol
[06:15:07] <jthornton> take the chuck off and turn it 90 degrees and see what you get
[06:15:09] <_methods> well if you want more accurate than that you probably want a mill or a jig bore
[06:15:25] <_methods> yeah that little runout could be in your chuck jaws
[06:15:26] <miss0r> at some point in time I came across a MT3 reamer. I can't remember where thou, anyone?
[06:15:26] <elektrinis> hi
[06:15:47] <miss0r> jthornton: did that already :) same story
[06:16:07] <jthornton> could be the chuck then, did the runout follow the chuck around?
[06:16:07] <elektrinis> looking for keyocera 3mm 2-flute endmills... no longer available on ebay :(
[06:16:11] <miss0r> _methods: Yeah. I'm thinking of grinding them
[06:16:23] <_methods> have you tried another chuck?
[06:16:50] <miss0r> jthornton: it changed a little. not much, not realy consistent
[06:17:39] <miss0r> _methods: Yeah, I have two other MT3 chucks, one is know for having alot of runout. the other one is for the lathe. I haven't tried that one thou. hang on
[06:18:59] <miss0r> heh. its the chuck.
[06:19:07] <_methods> ah good deal
[06:19:15] <_methods> that's the easy fix
[06:19:18] <miss0r> with the lathe chuck I get ~0.015mm runout
[06:19:37] <miss0r> time to order a new chuck then. any reccomendations?
[06:19:40] <_methods> time for a nice new albrecht
[06:20:45] <_methods> http://www.albrecht-germany.com/en/products/1stdrill-chuck/
[06:20:51] <_methods> hard to go wrong with them
[06:21:10] <_methods> except the price lol
[06:21:30] <jthornton> yea I love my albrecht keyless
[06:21:37] <_methods> it's made out of 100% germanium so it's big $$$$$$$
[06:21:45] <miss0r> nice. balanced at 4500 rpm :)
[06:22:06] <_methods> should be cheaper over there on your side of the pond i guess
[06:22:08] <miss0r> theres even a version with diamond coated jaws :o
[06:22:19] * miss0r drules
[06:22:26] <_methods> you can pick them up on ebay usually and rebuild them
[06:22:29] <_methods> for way cheaper
[06:23:01] <miss0r> hehehe, every non machinist would think us crazy for getting worked up over something as simple as a drill chuck :)
[06:23:25] <_methods> that's their problem :)
[06:23:36] <_methods> drill chucks are sexy
[06:23:51] <Wolf_> ones with no run out anyways :)
[06:23:52] <elektrinis> still, whats the best source to buy cheap 3mm endmills?
[06:24:19] <Wolf_> “PCB” mills maybe
[06:24:31] <miss0r> elektrinis: Depends on where you are from/what you need them to do/what quality you need
[06:24:43] <elektrinis> for plastic, 2 flute
[06:24:51] <elektrinis> uncoated
[06:25:06] <miss0r> I don't like runout, no matter what machine we are talking. call it machinist OCD :)
[06:25:07] <elektrinis> basically like:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10pcs-3MM-X-3MM-X40MM-2-FLUTE-HRC40-CUTTING-SOLID-CARBIDE-FLAT-ENDMILL-/282293061888
[06:25:19] <elektrinis> but quality of these is on question
[06:25:41] <miss0r> elektrinis: Well, theres alot of money to safe, if you just use HSS mills.
[06:26:25] <elektrinis> hmm
[06:26:26] <elektrinis> thanks
[06:26:35] <elektrinis> somehod search did not come up with these.
[06:26:59] <miss0r> On a MT3 related question. I have a question that have been puzzeling me: When I bought my lathe, there was alot of equipment that came with, amongst it, a MT3-MT2 converter, in some sort of plastic. What the hell is the usage of that?
[06:27:27] <_methods> so you can use mt2 taper tools in the spindle
[06:27:36] <_methods> oh for your lathe
[06:27:40] <miss0r> elektrinis:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3MM-X-50MM-2-FLUTE-CENTER-CUTTING-HSS-FLAT-ENDMILL-5x-/282131042712?hash=item41b0521198:g:vXQAAOSwRJ9XhBZq
[06:27:41] <_methods> same thing
[06:27:42] <jthornton> or tailstock
[06:27:56] <elektrinis> yes. thank you
[06:27:57] <miss0r> yeah, but it is made of plastic
[06:28:25] <_methods> not sure about that
[06:28:32] <_methods> never seen a plastic adapter for that
[06:28:43] <miss0r> thats what have me puzzled
[06:28:49] <_methods> i guess it might work for inspection or something
[06:28:59] <_methods> to hold indicator in tailstock or something
[06:28:59] <jthornton> oh a plastic one...
[06:29:51] <miss0r> Swiss made - schmid rapperswill
[06:32:56] <miss0r> judging from the silence - noone else have a clue :)
[06:37:00] <elektrinis> is ir possible to set mach3 to keep same rapid rate when feedrate is overrided? say to 150%
[06:40:04] <jdh> #LinuxCNC
[06:40:10] <elektrinis> oops :)
[06:41:06] <miss0r> I have been studying the price of the albrecht, and have decided that I am cheap.
[06:42:35] <miss0r> or have come to realize, even
[07:24:26] <_methods> miss0r: i buy old ones on ebay
[07:24:34] <_methods> most people are too lazy to fix them
[07:25:01] <_methods> they're pretty simple to rebuild and the repair parts are much more reasonably priced than a new chuck
[07:34:16] <elektrinis> why are round linear bearing are more popular than square? Like:
[07:34:19] <elektrinis> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MGN12-12mm-Miniature-Linear-Rail-Slide-MGN12H-Carriage-for-Kossel-3D-Printer-/221972058660
[07:57:33] <_methods> CaptHindsight: were you saying there is someone that actually sells 6040 routers that are decent?
[08:00:16] <ToddZ> I think the round ones are generally cheaper, and have lower load ratings than the profile ones.
[09:04:49] <connor_goodwolf> o/
[09:21:32] <CaptHindsight> _methods: I asked the same question
[09:22:27] <CaptHindsight> _methods: it's a crap shoot, you don't know how bad it is until it shows up
[09:23:56] <_methods> ah ok
[09:24:09] <CaptHindsight> http://www.techno-isel.com/tic/Catdas/Gantry3.htm these are US made and assembled properly
[09:24:14] <_methods> i thought you were saying one time that you found a vendor that actually did some qc
[09:24:35] <CaptHindsight> no, I asked if there was
[09:24:57] <_methods> ah ok
[09:25:07] <_methods> i just assumed they were all crap lol
[09:25:19] <CaptHindsight> the chinese vendors know that uhmericans are stupid
[09:26:05] <CaptHindsight> to be honest they think they are the same as they are
[09:27:29] <CaptHindsight> Automation Technologies just takes them out of the box and checks for missing or damaged parts
[09:29:28] <roycroft> are all the chinese parts unknown knowns or are they known unknowns?
[09:29:50] <CaptHindsight> all random from my experience
[09:30:00] <roycroft> but what kind of random?
[09:30:15] <CaptHindsight> dirt in the bearings, brown oxide coated fasteners
[09:30:51] <roycroft> that oxide coating protects the parts from suitability
[09:31:28] <CaptHindsight> one day the worker is painting machines with a mop, the next day they are assembling the ballscrews on a dirt floor
[09:35:37] <JT-Shop> Tom_L: did another update this morning
[10:23:45] <srdc> We are trying to tune the X-axis servo motor, and are having trouble with it overshooting and oscillating violently. We were using the same procedure we used on another mill, and are somewhat confused why it isn't working...
[10:23:51] <srdc> What should we be checking first?
[10:24:09] <Loetmichel_> CaptHindsight: you DO know that isel is a german company?
[10:24:42] <srdc> We set P = 5, FF1 = 9.5V / 700IPM / 60s/min = 0.8143
[10:25:23] <cradek> srdc: velocity or torque mode? what kind of feedback?
[10:25:54] <srdc> Sorry, velocity mode. Resolver feedback.
[10:26:07] <srdc> Already checked that resolvers are reading direction properly.
[10:26:34] <cradek> tach feedback to the amps?
[10:26:37] <srdc> It appears that the motor moves (first) in the proper direction
[10:27:13] <srdc> Yes. Mitsubishi TRA-31 drives, close the velocity loop to the motor with tachometers.
[10:27:23] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel_: yes and they have a division in the USA
[10:27:27] <srdc> Position loop closed in LinuxCNC with +/- 10V going from the Mesa card to the drive analog output
[10:27:34] <cradek> ok
[10:28:00] <cradek> so you might have the velocity loop oscillating, or bad velocity feedback, or the position loop oscillating, or bad position feedback
[10:28:03] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel_: and thanks for the dose of German today :)
[10:28:53] <srdc> Hmmm. It's frustrating, because it was actually working somewhat reasonably yesterday when I started to tune it.
[10:28:59] <cradek> if you unhook the dac and put a low voltage (1.5v battery) on the drive's velocity input does it move smoothly?
[10:29:17] <srdc> Lemme check that.
[10:29:27] <cradek> be careful
[10:29:34] <cradek> ideally the limit switches would be working :-)
[10:49:02] <srdc> cradek: So I'm having an issue testing that because as soon as I enable the drive with the analog pulled off separately, it takes off like a scared rabbit.
[10:53:18] <ToddZ> sounds like a sure sign that there is a problem.
[10:55:13] <tjtr33> maybe 'null' the input. clamp the Velocity input to the velocity reference jumper clip the 2 wires used for velocity command. Dont leave them disconnected and subject to noise. refer to the drive tuning manual for how to 'null' the amp
[10:55:22] <ToddZ> Does the same thing happen with the analog connected and the PID all zero.
[10:56:39] <srdc> Yes & No. It has been pretty much just sitting there unless we commanded it to move, which is why it surprised me. When EVERYTHING was zero (P right now is at 5 or 10), it would start moving, slowly than faster.
[10:59:45] <ToddZ> are you sure the tach signal isn't backwards?
[11:00:54] <tjtr33> sounds like bwds feedback. and cradek suggested a static low voltage excitement from a battery
[11:02:11] <srdc> tjtr33: Yes - I was trying that, but couldn
[11:02:19] <srdc> couldn't ever test it because the drive would take off
[11:02:40] <tjtr33> dont adjust the velocity comand ( or remove it ) while drive is enabled
[11:02:48] <srdc> ToddZ: I'm not sure the tach signal isn't backwards, but I sure didn't mess with it - these are the original drives & motors
[11:03:49] <srdc> tjtr33: I tried to enable it to test it with the battery, with the AOUT & GND leads for the analog signal removed from the Mesa 7i49
[11:05:44] <srdc> ToddZ: Although that may explain why it's going crazy with the acceleration?
[11:06:02] <pcw_home> srdc: a slow runaway can also happen if the tachometer is not working/disconnected
[11:06:19] <tjtr33> so battery was on drive and mesa was floating? that'd be ok for test. but the mesa should be there for these basic tests, just drive power and a battery
[11:06:30] <tjtr33> should NLT be there sorry
[11:06:37] <tjtr33> argh NOT
[11:08:01] <srdc> tjtr33: I had left everything else hooked up to the Mesa to allow it to enable the drives (has to send two separate inputs to enable). Just not the analog outputs.
[11:08:23] <srdc> And, I didn't have the battery hooked up quite yet, because I didn't want it moving immediately ... but it did anyway
[11:08:41] <srdc> pcw_home: This is a fairly rapid movement.
[11:08:47] <pcw_home> (since the drive integrates ref_voltage - tach_voltage) you will get a linear velocity ramp if the tach is missing
[11:09:21] <pcw_home> (and a exponential runaway if the tach is backwards)
[11:09:23] <srdc> pcw_home: Make that a VERY rapid movement and acceleration
[11:09:34] <tjtr33> usually the enables can be jumpered too ( for testing ) and tacho can be tested with nothing but a vmeter and hand turning the motor
[11:09:48] <tjtr33> yep bwds tacho = runaway
[11:12:02] <pcw_home> _after_ you get the open loop runaway sorted make sure the PWM output mode is set to 2 on all channels
[11:14:00] <srdc1> looks like my webchat screen disconnected for some reason
[11:14:00] <srdc1> tjrt33: Let me pull everything off the Mesa board for this axis and see if I can find anything
[11:14:19] <srdc1> So i missed anything after tjrt33 mentioned bkwds tach = runaway
[11:15:14] <pcw_home> after_ you get the open loop runaway sorted make sure the PWM output mode is set to 2 on all channels
[11:15:52] <pcw_home> (in the hal file)
[11:17:09] <srdc1> pcw_home: All 3 axes are set to 2.
[11:18:12] <cradek> sounds like you're on the right track
[11:18:59] <cradek> sometimes you can move the table by pushing on it with the machine totally off, and if you have a (real) scope that's a fine way to test a tach
[11:19:24] <cradek> if the tach works, I agree it might be backwards, or maybe the amp is just broken
[11:21:54] <pcw_home> do you have both velocity REF inputs grounded for the test? (normally you get 0 when disconnected but not guaranteed )
[11:22:33] <srdc1> cradek: I don't have a scope (other than halscope), just a DMM
[11:22:54] <srdc1> pcw_home: Both velocity REF inputs?
[11:23:44] <srdc1> I have 2 velocity command wires going to the drive labeled ER & ERR - ER being the analog output, and ERR being reference, and which I have jumpered to ground.
[11:25:17] <pcw_home> odd names
[11:25:40] <Loetmichel_> CaptHindsight: i meant: they have german QA... no wonder their tech works slightly better than the chinese stuff ;)
[11:26:02] <pcw_home> Is it only this axis that behaves this way?
[11:27:46] <srdc1> pcw_home: I have only really tried this one (the X axis). I believe the Y axis also worked this way when I tried it briefly
[11:41:17] <pcw_home> do you have a drive manual?
[11:49:37] <tjtr33> this may be the manual
http://www.meau.com/functions/dms/getfile.asp?ID=010000000000000001000000465000000
[11:49:57] <tjtr33> this maybe of use
http://emc-users.narkive.com/13JUHu1G/running-mitsubishi-meldas-dc-servo-motors-with-linuxcnc
[11:50:09] <tjtr33> i could not find ER ERR in the manual tho
[11:51:18] <srdc1> I do have the drive manual and the YM2 control manual.
[11:52:07] <srdc1> That 1st link is the manual I'm working with. The 2nd link I've gone through multiple times and have learned from, but not sure about this.
[11:52:21] <srdc1> I can't seem to read any inputs from the tacho with a DMM
[11:52:32] <cradek> hmm!
[11:53:09] <cradek> you usually see tens of volts
[11:53:28] <cradek> are you pushing the table around?
[11:54:41] <srdc1> Was turning the ballscrew by hand
[11:54:43] <srdc1> https://us.mitsubishielectric.com/fa/en/support/technical-support/knowledge-base/getdocument/?docid=3E26SJWH3ZZR-24-2231
[11:54:47] <srdc1> That's the YM2 manual.
[11:54:50] <tjtr33> no input from tacho to drive when turned? = servo loop says 'turn harder so i can see something' :-) = runaway
[11:56:23] <cradek> srdc1: an analog voltmeter is better for this kind of thing - digitals are slow, especially autoranging ones
[11:56:25] <srdc1> The pinout is on page 213
[11:57:07] <srdc1> All my connections to the drive right now are through the CAM1 connector (which was the original connector between the NC and the drives)
[11:58:44] <srdc1> tjtr33: Yes, that's what I'm thinking. I had ignored the jumpering instructions from Kudos on CNCZone because he seemed to be integrating in further back than the CAM1 connector.
[11:59:07] <srdc1> I may be missing something there, as at some point the tacho came through the NC wiring, and was fed back to the drives
[12:00:56] <srdc1> cradek: I know this is a basic question, but having never tested tachos before ... would the tacho output be AC or DC?
[12:01:03] <cradek> DC
[12:01:27] <srdc1> OK. That's what I thought, and had tried both, down to 2V (smallest level on my DMM).
[12:01:28] <cradek> probably tens of volts at rapid
[12:01:48] <cradek> you get nothing at all?
[12:02:19] <cradek> that's surely the problem
[12:02:38] <srdc1> I believe that maintenance manal says it is 2V output at 1000RPM
[12:02:44] <srdc1> *maintenance manual
[12:03:01] <cradek> oh, that's much lower than I'm used to
[12:04:31] <tjtr33> Nicklas? gladevcp panel for edm?
https://ibin.co/36xFzbsdVLta.png
[12:05:09] <srdc1> It's on page 22 of the manual tjtr33 posted - it's actually for the RST-XX series, which was combined tacho/resolver feedback TO THE NC, and ours was set up as an RT (tach to the drives, resolver to the NC). I assume the voltage would be the same though
[12:06:01] <tjtr33> yes check that voltage ratio, low voltages are more sensitive to noise. typical is more like 7V/krpm
[12:06:58] <tjtr33> check right at motor. no extra wiring that maybe shorted or munged otherwise
[12:07:25] <srdc1> Alright. I'll back up the wiring to the tacho
[12:13:45] <cradek> I don't trust a (cheap) digital meter to respond to a quick turn of the screw by hand. this might be an instrumentation problem...
[12:14:01] <tjtr33> page 22 has test points "Check pin TCP33..." one signal is called "TG.0V" it is not the 0volt test point, it is the name of an error signal for the "TG 0V alarm light"
[12:14:03] <cradek> better if you can push the table at a steady speed for a few seconds
[12:14:35] <cradek> huh if it has dead-tach sensing you'd think it would have faulted
[12:15:25] <tjtr33> we used to chuck up a portable drill to leadscrews to do that ;-) duct table and wood dowels
[12:15:51] <tjtr33> you can also see if the tacho polarity is whats expected
[12:16:43] <tjtr33> gnite all
[12:19:15] <srdc> Well, my internet connection is having issues, so it dropped me out again ...
[12:19:49] <srdc> cradek: It might be. There are two of us working on it, and one turned it fairly steadily by hand, while I checked the voltages.
[12:20:08] <srdc> I just dug up an old analog multimeter I'm going to try after lunch...
[12:20:50] <srdc> I think, though, without having time to double-check yet, that there may be an issue with the tacho feedback coming in on one set of cables, and the old NC connecting it back through to the drives ...
[12:21:17] <srdc> and I'm pretty sure if that's the case, we haven't duplicated that functionality ... and so the drives aren't getting any tacho feedback even though the tachos are (hopefully) working.
[12:21:29] <srdc> Once I get a chance to try that, I'll check back in.
[12:21:31] <srdc> Thanks!
[12:28:20] <skunkworks> zlog
[12:55:33] <JT-Shop> hey skunkworks
[12:55:47] <skunkworks> Hi
[12:55:55] <skunkworks> I have not tried your logger yet.. :)
[12:56:02] <JT-Shop> log
[12:56:02] <c-log> JT-Shop: Today's Log
http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:82/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23linuxcnc/2016-12-28.html
[12:56:05] <JT-Shop> index
[12:56:06] <c-log> JT-Shop: The #linuxcnc index
http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:82/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23linuxcnc/index.html
[12:56:15] <skunkworks> awesome!
[12:56:26] <JT-Shop> the index is cool
[13:09:20] <MacGalempsy> hey hey. its felt like an cnc blackhole the last week
[13:13:56] <Nick-Shop> that means everyone's problems have been solved --- except mine
[13:19:30] <JT-Shop> that seems to be an impossible situation
[13:22:05] <MacGalempsy> the answer is simple. take more drugs
[13:22:31] <MacGalempsy> drugs solve all problems
[13:49:29] * JT-Shop figured out the problem on the server, the heat sink was loose
[13:52:23] <Jymmm> Propane hose?
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Campbell-Hausfeld-50-ft-x-3-8-in-Maxus-Rubber-Air-Hose-PA118300AV/100668714
[14:22:22] <srdc> So my diagram shows 6 connections to the Tachogenerator
[14:22:34] <srdc> And I'm having trouble figuring out what all of them should be ...
[14:22:55] <srdc> TG1 & TG2 I'm assuming are the outputs received from the tacho
[14:23:39] <srdc> P12, AG, & M12 I'm guessing are the +12V, ground, & -12V exciting the tacho????
[14:23:48] <srdc> (I don't fully understand how tachos work on the inside)
[14:24:18] <srdc> and then SG is ???
[14:25:01] <srdc> (I assumed the P12, M12 & AG have to do with +/- 12 because AG is typically used in this diagram as the ground for +/-12V)
[14:25:13] <srdc> Any ideas? or tips on how normal tachos work?
[14:27:44] <Jymmm> srdc: First, you grow some corn, then some cow...
[14:28:13] <srdc> Jymmm: hahaha!
[14:28:41] <srdc> Jymmm: That's assuming you don't want pork tacos with flour tortillas ....
[14:29:28] <Jymmm> No self respecting taco lover would be using flour tortillas, ever!
[14:31:09] <srdc> Jymmm: They do at taco bell ...
[14:31:23] <srdc> Jymmm: They're pretty respectable, right???
[14:32:20] <Jymmm> Since when has Mega Corp (PepsiCo, the owners of Pepsi, Taco Bell, Pizza Hut, and KFC) ever been "respectable"?
[14:36:21] <KimK_laptop> srdc: (Sorry Jymmm, I don't mean to tach-over this taco conversation, lol) Tachometer generators are just DC generators (or DC motors working backwards).
[14:36:27] <KimK_laptop> They are optimized to reduce commutator ripple, etc., but basically put out a DC voltage (into a very light load) that is proportional to RPM. 7V per 1000 RPM is one popular value, but it could be anything. That's about it. It's a low-level analog signal in an industrial environment, so, shielding, etc.
[14:40:04] <Jymmm> KimK_laptop: I see what you did there... tach over... nice =)
[14:40:26] <KimK_laptop> heh
[14:43:56] <srdc> Jymmm: That was tongue-in-cheek
[14:44:16] <srdc> Jymmm: Even McD is preferable to tbell
[14:44:55] <srdc> KimK_laptop: So, I just confirmed that P12, M12, & AG are +12V, -12V, & GND
[14:45:04] <srdc> But I'm still mystified as to what SG would be
[14:45:08] <cradek> yes tachs just have two wires, they surely hook to TG1 and TG2
[14:45:22] <srdc> cradek: That's what I'm assuming
[14:45:34] <cradek> (command) signal ground? did you have a link to the document you're reading?
[14:45:43] <srdc> Not really
[14:45:47] <Wolf_> SG = sheild maybe?
[14:45:49] <cradek> could be shield too
[14:45:56] <srdc> That would probably be it.
[14:46:00] <cradek> not enough context to guess
[14:46:15] <srdc> I believe elsewhere that it was used as SG.
[14:46:20] <srdc> ehhh.
[14:46:25] <srdc> That SG was used as shield ground
[14:46:40] <Wolf_> driver manual helps…
[14:46:47] <srdc> Because the only other ground would be for the +/-12V which, from the context, is AG
[14:47:00] <srdc> Yes ... except that the driver manual assumes you're getting the inputs from the old NC
[14:47:07] <srdc> which I've summarily removed ...
[14:47:29] <srdc> Because in this system, the tacho outputs/inputs ran back and forth to the drives THROUGH the NC
[14:48:11] <KimK_laptop> Whether it's Signal Ground or Shield Ground or System Ground, the next Q is what's the difference between SG and AG (Analog Ground?)
[14:48:13] <Wolf_> ah, my servo drivers have stand alone manuals
[14:49:24] <srdc> These do to (Mitsubishi TRA-31), but they seem to have been primarily/only used for the Meldas control system
[14:50:15] <Wolf_> AMC here, so they are used with everything, including just a pot to spin them
[14:50:17] <srdc> So there is missing info (or at least info I don't see/understand) that comes from the YM2 Manual, or from the Mazak electrical diagram, which is the only place I could find the actual pinout for the cable running directly to the tacho
[14:51:14] <srdc> Someday ... we are planning to build our own plasma cutter. Then AMC would be a high contender. No more trying to figure out what some other system designer was thinking!!!
[14:56:57] <KimK_laptop> If I had to guess, I'd say that the AG goes with the P12 and M12 as a floating common, in case there's some other active device (a tach gen emulator using +12/0/-12 ?) instead of the tach as an option. And the SG is traditional "ground" (or "earth").
[14:59:36] <srdc> KimK_laptop: You may be right --- it would match the way the drive is setup. Right now, at least, though, the AG is bonded to ground going to the drive
[14:59:54] <srdc> KimK_laptop: Which may turn out to be a problem, I'll have to go back and look at that.
[16:07:42] <roycroft> http://roseburg.craigslist.org/tls/5933492801.html
[16:07:48] <roycroft> that's a pretty nice looking lathe
[16:07:51] <roycroft> in great condition
[16:07:58] <roycroft> but the price seems a bit high for a 9x24
[17:17:04] <Deejay> gn8
[17:53:13] <MacGalempsy> hey everyone.
[17:54:55] <MacGalempsy> hey pete
[17:55:16] <BeachBumPete> Hey Mac howzitgoin?
[17:58:34] <MacGalempsy> BeachBumPete: pretty good, finally got home and relaxing again
[17:58:43] <MacGalempsy> just started playing with some new filament for the printer
[17:59:48] <JT-Shop> what are you printing with mac?
[18:00:03] <MacGalempsy> trying out some PETG from atomic filament
[18:00:14] <MacGalempsy> it is a really good looking emerald green
[18:00:17] <BeachBumPete> I was just breaking into a car
[18:00:24] <MacGalempsy> yours?
[18:00:32] <BeachBumPete> my wife's
[18:00:37] <MacGalempsy> kind?:
[18:00:41] <BeachBumPete> she locked her keys in it
[18:00:50] <BeachBumPete> we got it open
[18:01:01] <JT-Shop> I have some of the PETG black and some carbon filled yet to try
[18:01:26] <JT-Shop> finally figured out what I did to screw up the printer, printing nice now
[18:01:27] <BeachBumPete> I just carefully pried the window away from the jamb and we were able to grab her keys sitting on the seat with a bend wire hangar
[18:01:29] <MacGalempsy> it is supposed to warp less and not produce odor like abs
[18:01:36] <MacGalempsy> nice
[18:02:48] <MacGalempsy> the bed temp is only 65c instead of 120c, which took forever to heat up that hot
[18:03:14] <MacGalempsy> https://atomicfilament.com/collections/petg-3d-printer-filament-us-made-with-free-shipping/products/ruby-red-translucent-petg-pro?variant=10553033537
[18:03:16] <MacGalempsy> thats the stuff
[18:03:55] <MacGalempsy> JT-Shop: did you make the nice list this year?
[18:06:11] <JT-Shop> I got my fudge from a good friend and a jacket from my wife
[18:06:53] <JT-Shop> the bed on mine takes forever so I modified slic3r to heat the bed to 50c then heat both the hot end and the bed the rest of the way
[18:08:19] <MacGalempsy> ditto on the fudge. we went to visit my wifes family and it was nice to see everyone for about 5 hours
[18:10:42] <JT-Shop> yea it's like grandkids you want to spoil them for a day or two then give them back lol
[18:11:23] <MacGalempsy> yep! here, have a jolt cola and a bunch of sweet (quietly exit)
[18:11:52] <JT-Shop> lol
[18:14:11] <MacGalempsy> been getting caught up on the TAUFLEDERMAUS channel on youtube. all they show are cool shotgun slugs and such. anyone else ever catch them?
[18:15:01] <Loetmichel_> MacGalempsy: i have seen a few vids from taofledermaus
[18:15:17] <MacGalempsy> Loetmichel_: which rounds do you favor?
[18:15:34] <Loetmichel_> funny things like that "folding wall hook" thingy
[18:15:55] <Loetmichel_> and the oversized airgun diabolo with the steel ball in the nose
[18:16:46] <MacGalempsy> all those darts have caught my attention. so this week my buddy and I are going to try and make some dart molds
[18:19:35] <MacGalempsy> the 3d printed slugs crack me up
[18:30:00] <Loetmichel_> i am german, so i will never have the chance to test them
[18:30:17] <Loetmichel_> making ammo is even more regulated here than having a gun ;)
[18:30:33] <pfred1> Loetmichel_ th stab in the back?
[18:30:42] <Loetmichel_> ?
[18:30:58] <pfred1> they don't teach you that history huh?
[18:31:18] <Loetmichel_> no idea what you are talking about
[18:31:32] <pfred1> that's what the Nazis used to gain power
[18:31:51] <Loetmichel_> thats a myth
[18:31:54] <pfred1> the stab in the back argument
[18:32:26] <Loetmichel_> if you mean the thing with the miliatry claiming that they lost the ww1 for the "homefront" not providing enough support
[18:33:19] <Loetmichel_> the nazis simply promised jobs and food in a time when both were scarce
[18:33:29] <pfred1> that helped too
[18:34:00] <Loetmichel_> (also they supposedly pulled a "bush junior" and "helped" the elections a bit
[18:34:59] <Loetmichel_> but anyways, i fail to see how thats is on topic here
[18:35:40] <pfred1> 19:00 < Loetmichel_> making ammo is even more regulated here than having a gun ;)
[18:35:44] <MacGalempsy> Loetmichel_: if you ever feel the need to shoot, just go to Austria
[18:36:05] <pfred1> here i can just go to my backyard
[18:37:03] <Loetmichel_> MacGalempsy: if you are into "weapons": do you know the german slingshot channel guy?
[18:37:09] <pfred1> this is my general store around the corner from my house
http://www.city-data.com/picfilesv/picv9337.php
[18:37:24] <pfred1> they sell 50 caliber ammo right at the counter
[18:37:26] <MacGalempsy> he is cool. and laughs funny
[18:37:55] <MacGalempsy> some of his stuff is amazing, like the airzooka
[18:38:00] <Loetmichel_> THAT guy is someone i want to be with then the zombie apocalypse hits ;)
[18:38:24] <pfred1> I'll take an AR-15 and 10K rounds
[18:38:41] <MacGalempsy> ill take an AK and 10k rounds
[18:39:05] <Loetmichel_> not only because of his "weapons" but also because if he slaps a zombie on the cheek the head will still be rotating half an hour later ;)
[18:39:12] <MacGalempsy> he is supposed to be at the SHOT show this month in Vegas
[18:39:31] <Loetmichel_> that guy is a MOUNTAIN
[18:39:36] <pfred1> I think our world shooting event is over now
[18:39:40] <Loetmichel_> and i am not a dwarf...
[18:40:32] <Loetmichel_> but if i ever meet him i will have to look quite a bit UP
[18:40:35] <pfred1> this started one field away from my house
http://i.imgur.com/iGnhYTJ.jpg
[18:41:09] <MacGalempsy> did it end there when that lady died?
[18:41:25] <pfred1> nah that was in Bridgeville that's across town
[18:41:33] <pfred1> they moved it about 10 years ago
[18:42:26] <pfred1> did she die?
[18:42:54] <MacGalempsy> pumpkin launching right? I thought the death was in the last year, or so.
[18:43:21] <pfred1> just the last shoot but i didn't hear she died just she got hit by the door
[18:43:39] <pfred1> which did put her in critical condition
[18:44:12] <pfred1> the people that run that event are idiots
[18:44:19] <pfred1> big time idiots
[18:44:47] <pfred1> which stands to reason considering how it all started
[18:46:08] <pfred1> a bunch of guys got in an argument at a bar in Dewey about who could throw a pumpkin further so they left the bar and drove west to a farm field and starte tossing pumpkins
[18:48:51] <zeeshan> howdy
[18:52:41] <MacGalempsy> :)
[18:52:51] <MacGalempsy> hi zeeshan
[18:52:54] <zeeshan> hi
[18:52:58] <zeeshan> did you get a job!?
[18:52:58] <zeeshan> :D
[18:53:16] <MacGalempsy> just got a call this morning and got an email setup for this group I have been talking to
[18:53:26] <zeeshan> nice man
[18:53:31] <zeeshan> back in business soon
[18:53:34] <MacGalempsy> but it is not the job I sent out a resume for
[18:53:34] <zeeshan> you wont have time for cnc :P
[18:53:53] <MacGalempsy> welll....
[18:54:11] <MacGalempsy> at least I should have some money to buy more cnc I wont have time for
[18:54:31] <zeeshan> haha
[18:54:38] <zeeshan> cnc will be peasant stuff to you
[18:54:47] <zeeshan> =D
[18:54:57] <zeeshan> i ran out of mineral spirits
[18:54:57] <zeeshan> fak
[18:55:03] <MacGalempsy> :) nah, got to keep it real
[18:57:39] <MacGalempsy> zeeshan: what are you making today?
[18:57:54] <zeeshan> just rebuilding the hydraulic pump
[18:58:06] <zeeshan> found out this is not a modded pump
[18:58:12] <zeeshan> it truly was designed by the japanese
[18:58:22] <zeeshan> they made a major mistake when assembling the pump to the electric motor rotor
[18:58:27] <zeeshan> they used grease and pressed it in
[18:58:33] <zeeshan> they did it with good intentions
[18:58:44] <zeeshan> guess what, 40 years later here i am ripping it apart
[18:58:51] <zeeshan> the shaft was seized
[18:58:52] <zeeshan> why?
[18:58:58] <zeeshan> the grease had hardened up
[18:58:59] <zeeshan> lol
[18:59:52] * zeeshan goes to pick up mineral spirits
[19:01:26] <t12> well
[19:01:27] <t12> 40 years
[19:01:33] <t12> thats pretty good
[19:03:47] <Tom_L> zeeshan pick up some sprits for yourself while you're out
[19:07:36] <srdc> So I got the tachogenerator hooked up and working correctly after the circus earlier today...
[19:08:01] <Tom_L> you had to wait for the circus?
[19:08:29] <srdc> :-P
[19:08:46] <srdc> but now I've got a stubborn lag/overshoot at start & stop that I can't get down no matter what I try
[19:09:27] <Tom_L> pcw is good with pid
[19:09:44] <srdc> I followed the process of small P, up until it oscillates (15-25), then add FF1 to center it (around 0.36), and add FF2 to bring down the lag
[19:09:50] <srdc> I know! He helped with our first mill
[19:10:23] <srdc> The problem is, I can't get down lower than about 0.003" lag with FF2, and the more I add, the more it overshoots.
[19:12:07] <pfred1> I fould out what's wrong with my machine
[19:12:21] <pfred1> found out even
[19:12:55] <srdc> ?
[19:13:24] <srdc> Andy - maybe you can offer some advice on tuning servos?
[19:14:02] <MacGalempsy> well the first PETG test came out pretty nice
[19:20:09] <roycroft> you can tune a servo but you can't tune a fish
[19:22:06] <andypugh> srdc: I have not tuned that many servos, and I keep thinking that I should experiment with cascaded loops on my torque-mode drives.
[19:30:19] <MacGalempsy> with all the tuning questions, it would be nice to see a menu item that is connected to the atpid component
[19:30:41] <srdc> andypugh: no problem - I'm going back to check my acceleration values to make sure I haven't got it cranked too high
[19:30:45] <MacGalempsy> ive tried messing with the component, but have yet to have it work
[19:31:49] <gregcnc3> pfred1 what was up with your machine?
[19:33:34] <pfred1> gregcnc wood frame shrank
[19:33:34] * zeeshan is 2 gallon of mineral spirits richer
[19:33:46] <pfred1> so the X axis got really loose
[19:33:56] <gregcnc> hmmm someone suggested that
[19:34:11] <pfred1> noit that i can recall
[19:34:16] <gregcnc> great so the new drives are working afterall
[19:34:23] <pfred1> they seem to be
[19:34:32] <pfred1> but i had the current way wrong on them
[19:34:51] <gregcnc> zeeshan that's the wrong stuff for newyears!!
[19:35:24] <zeeshan> haha
[19:35:34] <zeeshan> i have lots of vodka for the new year :D
[19:35:42] <zeeshan> man am i weird for hating beer?
[19:35:46] <zeeshan> i've tried so many kinds
[19:35:51] <zeeshan> it all tastes like crap to me
[19:35:56] <zeeshan> but straight vodka on the rocks
[19:35:58] <zeeshan> or rum on the rocks
[19:36:02] <zeeshan> i'm set.
[19:36:28] <pfred1> I like ale myself
[19:36:44] <zeeshan> doesnt it taste bad? :P
[19:36:48] <gregcnc> whiskey, neat
[19:37:03] <andypugh> Beer is an acquired taste, and I have done so. But I can see it isn’t for everyone.
[19:37:08] <MacGalempsy> zeeshan: does that make you carb concious?
[19:37:18] <zeeshan> nah man
[19:37:38] <MacGalempsy> im going to go dry for 2017
[19:37:43] <BeachBumPete> Woah thats scary Zeeshan and I actually have something in Common
[19:37:46] <gregcnc> zeeshan do you not like coffee as well, I mean real coffee, not milk sugar, kids stuff
[19:37:49] <zeeshan> rofl BeachBumPete
[19:37:56] <zeeshan> no gregcnc, i love coffee
[19:37:58] <andypugh> If you like Vodka then perhaps your problem with beer is that it tastes of something?
[19:38:00] <BeachBumPete> I cant stand beer
[19:38:14] <BeachBumPete> tried to like it
[19:38:16] <zeeshan> andypugh: i don't even know how to describe beer
[19:38:19] <zeeshan> vodka does have a taste
[19:38:22] <BeachBumPete> tried quite a few different ones just to be sure
[19:38:32] <gregcnc> the taste of your tongue dissovling
[19:38:32] <zeeshan> BeachBumPete: i sometimes feel people are faking liking beer
[19:38:33] <zeeshan> haha
[19:38:33] <MacGalempsy> the best part about vodka is that if you get the cheap stuff, just filter it a few more times to make the good stuff
[19:38:48] <pfred1> there's some beer I really like
[19:38:51] <andypugh> Well, beer basically tastes like liquid bread that has gone off :-)
[19:39:03] <renesis> depends on the beer
[19:39:19] <pfred1> one of the best breweries in the world is like 5 minutes up the road from me so that helps
[19:39:29] <renesis> im not big into drinking, and there are a bunch i like
[19:39:30] <BeachBumPete> I like rum drinks, some vodka drinks never liked whiskey.. can drink a little brandy
[19:39:37] <andypugh> Ok, the _good_ beer tastes like liquid bread that has gone off. Can’t be doing with that lager stuff. :-)
[19:39:37] <MacGalempsy> pfred1: which brewery is that? the free one?
[19:39:47] <renesis> stella apple cider ftw
[19:39:47] <pfred1> MacGalempsy it used to be
[19:39:58] <renesis> its like alcoholic jolly rancher
[19:40:00] <pfred1> whn you toured the brewery years ago they made sure you got loadd
[19:40:03] <BeachBumPete> certain wines are good too
[19:40:38] <renesis> andypugh: i had chimay for xmas, it has that yeasty scent, but its prob ne of my fav beers
[19:40:43] <andypugh> I have actually not yet found an alcoholic drink I didn’t like :-)
[19:40:45] <pfred1> I can remember when they uncasked their black and blue they were so excited they sent girls out to the tour group with pitchers of it
[19:40:46] <renesis> beer monks know their shit
[19:40:53] <MacGalempsy> my current booze motto is "The brown will put you down"
[19:41:00] <pfred1> I had to put my hand over my glass because i had to drive home
[19:41:03] <renesis> andypugh gonna get pruno for xmas
[19:41:14] <pfred1> stuff is 12% ABV
[19:41:37] <andypugh> Too late. Also too late for my birthday. (Crikey, I was 50 yesterday!)
[19:41:45] <zeeshan> andypugh: you old fart
[19:41:46] <zeeshan> :D
[19:41:46] <pfred1> https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/64/32437/
[19:41:46] <MacGalempsy> :)
[19:41:53] <renesis> eh, year old pruno gotta be pretty awesome
[19:42:01] <pfred1> ah only 10%
[19:42:36] <pfred1> regular beer is like 5%
[19:42:38] <renesis> https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/215/672/
[19:42:45] <renesis> monk beer ftw
[19:42:47] <MacGalempsy> in oklahoma regular bear is 3.2
[19:42:58] <pfred1> I like chimay
[19:43:12] <pfred1> I thnk i like afligm better though
[19:43:13] <renesis> chimays way more buzzy than its alc content would suggest
[19:43:20] <andypugh> When I was in the US in the mid 80s the beer was terrible. Basically a choice of Budweiser or Michelob. You seem to have got your act together since, last time I was in SF you couldn’t move without falling into a microbrewery.
[19:43:28] <pfred1> yeah their double can set me back a piece
[19:43:45] <renesis> andypugh: pacifico!
[19:43:51] <renesis> is the best american style beer
[19:44:41] <MacGalempsy> andypugh: since then there has been a whole microbrewery movement. it was a civilized revolt
[19:44:52] <renesis> friends sister try to do a corona vs pacifico blind test on me, i didnt even have to taste the pacifico
[19:44:58] <pfred1> well Dogfish is leading the microbrewry charge
[19:45:00] <MacGalempsy> renesis: pacifico is mexican
[19:45:02] <renesis> soon as i tasted the corona i started laughing
[19:45:11] <renesis> macgalempsy: mexican beers are in the style of american beer
[19:45:13] <pfred1> sam is kind of famous
[19:45:34] <MacGalempsy> these days I am ok with Miller Lite
[19:45:46] <pfred1> MacGalempsy i never liked Miller
[19:46:02] <renesis> i like coors because its hard to hate on the taste of water
[19:46:22] <pfred1> yeah coors is like water
[19:46:36] <pfred1> Olympia it's the water!
[19:46:44] <MacGalempsy> so is miller lite, but when you want to endurance drink, it is the best
[19:47:13] <MacGalempsy> the 30 pack was invented for a single drinker to last all day
[19:47:22] <gregcnc> endurance drinking is that an olympic sport?
[19:47:35] <renesis> xgames event
[19:47:37] <andypugh> I could have been a contender!
[19:47:38] <MacGalempsy> yes.
[19:48:55] <MacGalempsy> the event starts when you wake up and ends when the 30 pack is gone or you pass out
[19:51:39] <zeeshan> ive tried guiness,alexander keiths, budweiser, coors, corona, ricards red, heineken, kingfisher,
[19:51:41] <zeeshan> and stella
[19:51:56] <zeeshan> prolly the one i could tolerate out of all those was corona and heineken
[19:52:05] <zeeshan> worse was guiness
[19:52:08] <pfred1> guiness with a dead mouse in the can is OK
[19:52:26] <gregcnc> guinness is like coffee to me
[19:52:31] <zeeshan> lol
[19:52:39] <Wolf_> whats wrong with guiness, the beer you can chew (even without the mouse in the can)
[19:52:45] <zeeshan> okay, i definitely have defective taste buds
[19:52:46] <pfred1> but yeah not a great list of beer
[19:52:47] <zeeshan> if you guys like it
[19:52:47] <zeeshan> ;p
[19:52:51] <gregcnc> but I can't smell much
[19:53:10] <MacGalempsy> my wife loves those thick beers, they just give me a headache. not much endurance drinking goes on with that stuff
[19:53:10] <pfred1> zeeshan where you live?
[19:53:15] <zeeshan> canada
[19:53:24] <pfred1> Labatts ain't bad
[19:53:31] <zeeshan> oh i had blue too
[19:53:34] <pfred1> lablatts!
[19:53:34] <zeeshan> thats what wife drinks most of time
[19:53:43] <gregcnc> i also like sauerkraut and herring so I might not count
[19:53:53] <pfred1> I'd take labatts over anything you listed
[19:53:54] <andypugh> None of those are of a style I particularly like. You could try a traditional english “bitter” just to complete the matrix.
[19:54:07] <zeeshan> andypugh: brand name?
[19:54:21] <pfred1> you can get sam adams up there can't you?
[19:54:25] <zeeshan> yes
[19:54:30] <pfred1> sam ain't bad
[19:54:35] <zeeshan> ill try that
[19:54:40] <zeeshan> i bet it tastes the same
[19:54:41] <zeeshan> :P
[19:54:44] <Wolf_> algonquin black and tan is good
[19:54:46] <pfred1> their spring beer is delicious in season
[19:54:46] <andypugh> Back Sheep . Moorhouse, Shepherd Neame, Tetley, about 200 more
[19:55:04] <pfred1> but their plain ale ain't the end of the world usually
[19:55:07] <gregcnc> english bitter is pale ale says wiki or are they wrong?
[19:55:10] <Wolf_> which, I cant get down here...
[19:55:16] <zeeshan> andypugh: i dont think ive seen any of those brands
[19:55:48] <pfred1> I used to like sam smiths like their oatmeal stout
[19:56:21] <gregcnc> i liked india pale ales for a while, but some of them are like pinesol now a days
[19:56:31] <andypugh> zeeshan:
https://www.beeradvocate.com/lists/style/98/
[19:56:37] <pfred1> gregcnc well dogfish makes the best IPA
[19:56:48] <zeeshan> jesus
[19:56:50] <zeeshan> thats a lot of brands
[19:56:50] <zeeshan> haha
[19:56:54] <pfred1> theyr method is patented
[19:57:15] <pfred1> I can drink dogfish 60s forever
[19:57:27] <zeeshan> http://www.thebeerstore.ca/beers/fullers-extra-special-bitter
[19:57:32] <zeeshan> this is the only thing that popups for bitter
[19:58:05] <andypugh> Yes, ESB is right in the middle of that class. It’s one I like.
[19:58:30] * zeeshan will try for new years eve
[19:58:32] <andypugh> Should be drunk cool but not cold.
[19:58:39] <pfred1> let's find some good beer in the beer store
[19:58:48] <zeeshan> pfred1: lol
[19:59:02] <zeeshan> our beer store is gov run
[20:00:24] <zeeshan> ill be back, do write the list
[20:00:33] <zeeshan> im doing my alcohol run tomorrow
[20:03:51] <pfred1> not a shole lot jumping out at me with the ales hard to go wrong with Hacker Pschorr though they kinda invented beer
[20:03:55] <Tom_L> zeeshan, it's all your fault
[20:04:16] <Tom_L> all this beer talk just because you ran out of solvent for your hydraulic pump!
[20:04:18] <pfred1> or at least I think they may have written the German purity law?
[20:04:39] <pfred1> hack for sures are pretty good though
[20:05:07] <pfred1> their oktoberfest is not to be missed
[20:06:47] <pfred1> Loetmichel you like Hacker Pschorr beer?
[20:07:11] <andypugh> zeeshan: This is one of my favourites:
http://www.thebeerstore.ca/beers/old-speckled-hen
[20:08:18] <andypugh> I wouldn’t really class Hacker Pschorr as an Ale, surely ’tis more of a lager?
[20:08:21] <pfred1> this is probably my favorite
https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/64/18862/
[20:08:34] <pfred1> andypugh hacker makes a few different kinds
[20:08:55] <pfred1> burton baton is oak cask aged
[20:09:05] <pfred1> tasty!
[20:09:23] <andypugh> pfred1: I think anything over 6% is pushing it a bit with beer.
[20:09:36] <pfred1> andypugh nah it's smooth honest
[20:09:48] <pfred1> it will tie you in a knot though
[20:11:03] <pfred1> andypugh this is your limit with DFH then
https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/64/6108/
[20:12:26] <andypugh> I like an IPA sometimes, but the US ones seem to be pushing too far on the hops.
[20:12:47] <pfred1> man i got to pick some of this up just to say I had it
https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/64/6533/
[20:13:01] <pfred1> 15% !
[20:14:27] <pfred1> andypugh here's the most disgusting beer in the world
https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/64/146326/
[20:14:48] <pfred1> you probably don't know what scrapple is
[20:15:41] <andypugh> Isn’t is a board game where you make up words?
[20:16:10] <pfred1> andypugh you'd be better off if that is what it was Scrapple is like cheap imitation spam
[20:16:51] <andypugh> I’ll pass, thanks.
[20:17:01] <pfred1> w're not too far from the scraple capitol of the world here though
[20:17:30] <pfred1> yeah I've never worked up the guts to try beer for breakfast myself
[20:18:39] <andypugh> I am pretty sure that I never want to try any beer with meat in it.
[20:19:02] <pfred1> I'm with you but we still don't know what we're missing out on
[20:19:41] <pfred1> but i already know i don't like scrapple
[20:19:45] <andypugh> I don’t eat any meat nowadays.
[20:20:03] <pfred1> you're vegan?
[20:20:33] <pfred1> I hear it is healthy
[20:20:45] <pfred1> but meat is just too tasty
[20:20:52] <andypugh> No, I am vegetarian, but I still eat milk and eggs.
[20:21:16] <pfred1> i like veggies
[20:21:31] <pfred1> but i gotta have a bit of meat with a meal
[20:22:01] <pfred1> not even fish?
[20:22:04] <Wolf_> veggies are good, its what food eats
[20:22:24] <pfred1> come on fish aren't even animals
[20:22:28] <andypugh> But, anyway, time to sleep I think. Things to machine tomrrow.
[20:23:44] <pfred1> scallops broiled in butter
[20:24:15] * pfred1 is wild about seafood
[20:24:40] <Loetmichel> pfred1: never tasted it
[20:24:53] <Loetmichel> i like Pilsener Urquell and becks original
[20:24:56] <pfred1> Loetmichel you're in Germany right?
[20:25:12] <Loetmichel> and recently aquired a taste for tannenzäpfle
[20:25:15] <Loetmichel> yes
[20:25:26] <pfred1> this October you got eo try some hacker Pschorr Oktoberfest
[20:25:55] <pfred1> though some years it is better than others
[20:26:04] <Loetmichel> germany may be only 1/27th the area of the u.s., but its still pretty large, and i dont like to go to munich at all
[20:26:12] <pfred1> I htink they invented Oktoberfest?
[20:26:23] <Loetmichel> never been at an Oktoberfest so far and dont think i ever will
[20:26:28] <pfred1> man we get it here in the USA
[20:26:46] <pfred1> the beer at least
[20:27:11] <Loetmichel> the beer AT the original oktoberfest is what we call "spülwasser" here
[20:27:25] <Loetmichel> (dishcleaningwater)
[20:27:38] <pfred1> yeah we call it bock beer
[20:27:45] <Loetmichel> i do like the good old Pilsener better
[20:27:51] <pfred1> that's when they clean out the vats
[20:28:16] <pfred1> that comes after Oktoberfest
[20:28:18] <Loetmichel> no, you usually dont get bock beer at the oktoberfest, its a special low alc "schankbier" thats sold there
[20:29:12] <pfred1> how about Paulander?
[20:29:28] <pfred1> know what german beer I really used to like?
[20:29:49] <Loetmichel> you mean paulaner?
[20:29:51] <pfred1> let me see if i can even spell it Kulmbacher Schweitzerhoff Brau
[20:30:01] <pfred1> man i used to love that stuff
[20:30:03] <Loetmichel> bräu
[20:30:08] <Loetmichel> kulmbacher is good
[20:30:16] <pfred1> yeah with the swing top bottles
[20:30:33] <pfred1> man i used to drink those like they were going out of style
[20:31:48] <pfred1> we don't have umlauts here
[20:32:01] <pfred1> ä
[20:32:41] <Loetmichel> write ae, ue, oe instead
[20:34:15] <pfred1> I forget what this is called æ
[20:35:48] <Loetmichel> thats swedish
[20:35:51] <Loetmichel> not german ;)
[20:35:55] <pfred1> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%86
[20:37:20] <pfred1> pretty fascinating
[20:39:34] <pfred1> ǣ
[23:10:51] <zeeshan> lol tom
[23:11:38] <zeeshan> old speckled hen and fullers extra spec bitter to try. :)
[23:11:55] <CaptHindsight> The danger of leaving babies on counters
http://imgur.com/r/Danger5/r96Dt
