#linuxcnc | Logs for 2016-12-06

[00:00:03] <Wolf_> trying to build a cnc probe out of pipe fittings doesn’t sounds like much fun
[00:00:05] <djdelorie> true, just saying he's more likely to have a cnc machine, because he's here :-)
[00:00:10] <roycroft> she
[00:00:25] <djdelorie> ok, she, doesn't matter
[00:00:32] <djdelorie> (I mean, it doesn't matter to the odds)
[00:00:37] <roycroft> and she's building one, or has completed the build
[00:00:44] <roycroft> i don't know how far along into the build she is
[00:01:12] <LeelooMinai> Well, it's done more or less: https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/29276743343/
[00:01:13] <djdelorie> could just postpone that part until the rest of the project is far enough along to make it
[00:02:20] <LeelooMinai> Browsing now for "angle grinder arbors" - that seems most promising.
[00:02:29] <LeelooMinai> Or rather shafts
[00:03:29] <LeelooMinai> Like this, but the prblem is that this is 14mm so far too big for my collet (er11): https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-Replacement-Angle-Grinder-14mm-9-16-Metal-Shaft-Spindle-for-824/1997647000.html
[00:03:52] <Wolf_> have you made any of the probe yet?
[00:04:03] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, well, not sure wha tthe smallest diameter there is.
[00:05:08] <djdelorie> http://static.portlandbolt.com/uploads/2014/07/carriage_bolt1-374x250.jpg
[00:05:15] <djdelorie> get something like that, cut off the head, use two nuts?
[00:05:18] <LeelooMinai> Wolf_: I ordered some parts from aliexpress: steel dowels,5mm ball bearing balls, ruby-tiped stylus part. And I have a pcb for this in mind that I will design and order from oshpark - I will embedd the balls onto it.
[00:05:21] <djdelorie> not sure how axial it would be
[00:05:27] <Wolf_> oh, 14mm?… I think the parts in the pic I linked of the probe parts is bigger then 14mm
[00:06:05] <LeelooMinai> djdelorie: Right, me neither... but probably not that great.
[00:06:37] <LeelooMinai> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Dial-Test-Indicator-Probe-Ruby-Head-Accessory-Lever-Indicator-Gauge-More-Specifications-Measuring-Tools/32592297684.html
[00:06:50] <LeelooMinai> This will be the tip end
[00:06:53] <Wolf_> http://i.imgur.com/X1ozLpw.jpg innards of a renishaw probe
[00:07:05] <djdelorie> https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0443/5157/products/shoulder-screw_04046550-d092-4e90-9f54-2333662e6cf4_large.jpeg?v=1427411463
[00:07:41] <LeelooMinai> Wolf_: Right, actually I have some of those as I used them for hinges for the CNC enclosure.
[00:07:49] <LeelooMinai> WOuld have to cut off the cap.
[00:08:04] <LeelooMinai> But could work I guess.
[00:09:48] <LeelooMinai> Wolf_: I will have the part that holds the 6 balls being a pcb - that way I don't have to use any wires there and I can add visual/sound feedback too.
[00:09:53] <Wolf_> even that massive probe that was on a monarch 45 tool holder (I think) was 4 screws and a ball in the center to allow adjustment, so a shoulder bolt + disk with 4 holes might work
[00:11:17] <Wolf_> place a ball bearing in the hex of the shoulder bolt and let the head of it hold the disk on the shaft, 4 screws in to the back plate of the probe head
[00:12:56] <LeelooMinai> Wolf_: I don't get the ball bearing part.
[00:13:33] <Wolf_> I wish I was at home so I could grab it and take a pic
[00:13:33] <LeelooMinai> I was thinking of making the pcb part adjustable somehow - maybe with 3 set screws on the sides.
[00:15:48] <LeelooMinai> I saw some really ghetto probes. Like this one:) http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-uAC3Wh6xT-Q/T4C3UfVUUAI/AAAAAAAAAE4/59j3ddacjh8/s1600/insideview.JPG
[00:15:59] <LeelooMinai> Scary stuff:)
[00:16:33] <Wolf_> lol
[00:21:30] <Wolf_> of course I can’t find a pic of the mounting, between the disk on the shank and probe head there is a ball bearing in the middle that acts as a pivot point, 4 screws around the disk on the shank allow you to dial the probe head in concentric to the mounting shaft
[00:25:10] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, ok, that seems to be some different adjustment that what DIY versions usually have.
[00:25:29] <Wolf_> yeah
[00:25:46] <LeelooMinai> Well, they vary, but here's and example: http://tetralite.com/mach/images/probepcbgap.jpg
[00:25:51] <LeelooMinai> an*
[00:26:18] <Wolf_> I think I have seen that one before
[00:27:45] <LeelooMinai> It makes sense - I kind of like it.
[00:28:09] <Wolf_> many ways to make it work anyways
[00:28:13] <LeelooMinai> But not sure about those nuts there - the thread seems too course.
[00:28:28] <LeelooMinai> coarse*
[00:29:45] <Wolf_> nuts are fore the spring preload to keep the contact ball plate in place, guessing it has setscrews to move the contact plate to adjust the stylus
[00:29:49] <djdelorie> could use a nylock there instead
[00:30:06] <Wolf_> … and that was all a guess :D
[00:33:02] <Wolf_> the renishaw mp3 that I have been messing with is built differently then all teh DIY setups that I have looked at
[00:34:53] <LeelooMinai> I read somewhere that the patent expired, but they got granted another one with something silly about the wiring - forgot what it was, but it was trivial.
[00:35:19] <LeelooMinai> I think something about soldereing wires to the balls...
[00:36:27] <Wolf_> MP3 was all spring contacts, balls are daisy chained with the metal rods on the stylus center close the circuit
[00:36:59] <archivist> newer renishaw is moving to a force sensor rather than contacts
[00:37:23] <Wolf_> yeah, also 1/8 the size of the mp3 head :D
[00:37:28] <archivist> and small 100g sensors as really cheap :)
[00:37:37] <archivist> are
[00:37:44] <LeelooMinai> My plan is to make the pcb with through holes that will accept the balls. They will make good contact as oshpark has ENIG - thin gold finish, so I can just put them there and epoxy or something.
[00:38:14] <archivist> I have the bits ready to play, just trying to come up with a design
[00:38:56] <Wolf_> or make a plastic ring to hold the balls in place
[00:38:57] <archivist> LeelooMinai, make it a press fit, so no glue needed
[00:39:06] <LeelooMinai> I had also an idea of using TI inductive sensor ICs - they can detect sub 1μm displacement.
[00:39:31] <LeelooMinai> But, I will first try the simple method.
[00:39:33] <Wolf_> oops, mp9 is what I have...
[00:39:53] <LeelooMinai> I wonder what they need force measurement for though.
[00:40:16] <Wolf_> still need to see if the optical output works on mine, then all i’m missing is a mi12 box lol
[00:40:18] <archivist> I do have a huge LVDT probe that senses deflection
[00:40:46] <LeelooMinai> Wolf_: Hmm, optical output?
[00:41:00] <archivist> the transmission
[00:41:06] <archivist> not wired
[00:41:21] <Wolf_> mp9 has a startup spin, then uses a optical transmission for probe output
[00:41:34] <LeelooMinai> A, you mean like light detector, not opyical cables?
[00:41:40] <LeelooMinai> optical*
[00:41:49] <Wolf_> IR data link
[00:42:03] <LeelooMinai> Right
[00:42:27] <LeelooMinai> So like TV remote.
[00:43:06] <Wolf_> yup, pretty much
[00:45:36] <LeelooMinai> Well, I guess it's nice not to have a cable, but on the other hand I don't think a cable should be in a way much.
[00:46:06] <Wolf_> yeah, wireless systems are more intended for machines with tool changers
[00:51:27] <djdelorie> LeelooMinai: for the balls, use a via that's 70% of the diam, and solder from the other side?
[00:51:53] <djdelorie> assuming solder sticks to whatever they're made of
[00:51:55] <LeelooMinai> Right, well, good luck soldering to stainless steel balls though:)
[00:52:24] <LeelooMinai> I was thinking just some epoxy after pressing them in.
[00:53:45] <LeelooMinai> One could also sandwitch them between two pcbs, but that's not worth the trouble I think.
[00:55:10] <roycroft> it is difficult, but possible, to solder stainless steel
[00:55:31] <LeelooMinai> With some agressive chemistry maybe (?)
[00:55:58] <roycroft> the passivation of the surface makes it very difficult
[00:56:15] <roycroft> in the homebrewing community, some vendors sell kettles and the like with soldered fittings
[00:56:29] <roycroft> personally, i have all my equipment sanitary welded
[00:56:34] <roycroft> i do not trust soldered ss fittings
[00:57:21] <djdelorie> can you drill and tap the balls, and bolt them to the pcb?
[00:57:57] <archivist> lots of ideas on http://www.precisionballs.com/all_kinematic_platforms.php
[00:58:10] <Wolf_> press fit imo, using pcb or a plastic ring
[00:58:29] <archivist> press fit is what the pros do
[00:59:46] <LeelooMinai> Right, well, that works, but only after one has actually tried the manufactured pcbs I think - they may have some variations on diameter.
[01:01:00] <LeelooMinai> Also, if they press-fit, that will limit how much they stick up - the dowels need to rest on them, so that could be a problem.
[01:01:11] <Wolf_> LeelooMinai: http://i.imgur.com/i8YPSUE.png the On-center plate is the ball/screws I was talking about
[01:01:42] <LeelooMinai> A, that's neat too.
[01:02:14] <LeelooMinai> Seems easy enough to make.
[01:03:07] <LeelooMinai> 5mm ball there will be probably too small - I should get some bigger ones.
[01:03:32] <LeelooMinai> Not too many though or they will put me on a terrorist bomber list.
[01:12:11] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, it would be kind of sad to destroy it, but this could be used probably for the housing: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NEW-Encoder-400P-R-Incremental-Rotary-Encoder-400p-r-AB-phase-encoder-6mm-Shaft-free-shipping/32617752186.html
[01:14:09] <LeelooMinai> This one even has places for balls already:p https://www.aliexpress.com/item/600P-R-Photoelectric-Incremental-Rotary-Encoder-5V-24V-AB-Two-Phases-Shaft-6mm/32700635042.html
[01:14:23] <Wolf_> lol
[01:31:26] <Wolf_> damn, no cheap mi12 interfaces on ebay :(
[01:32:10] <archivist> been watching for ages too not found interfaces I want
[01:33:14] <archivist> although I have got a PI6-2
[01:34:20] <archivist> I would love the internal circuit of it
[01:35:25] <Wolf_> pi6-2 on ebay for $99 + $28.45 shipping
[01:35:35] <Wolf_> which I have no idea what that is lol
[01:36:11] <archivist> simple contact to serial port, not much more than a comparator
[01:36:26] <Wolf_> ahh
[01:37:17] <archivist> LM311 for the comparator, ttl 7407 for the levels
[01:43:23] <archivist> rofl at the prices http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Renishaw-CMM-Probe-Extension-Bar-Set-PEL1-PEL2-/252667536174
[01:43:48] <LeelooMinai> A bargain
[01:44:16] <Wolf_> lol
[01:44:31] <Wolf_> I found a Mi12 for $800...
[01:45:26] <Wolf_> hmm TP200 for $200...
[01:46:12] <archivist> some really silly prices for old worn out gear
[01:46:23] <Wolf_> yeah…
[01:47:26] <archivist> can be cheaper new direct of renishaw than ebay
[01:47:55] <Wolf_> here is a deal http://www.ebay.com/itm/Set-Renishaw-MP10-OMM-optical-module-machine-MI-12-interface-unit-/302138378746?hash=item4658d9c9fa:g:8tYAAOSwEzxYOHjt shipping is a killer though
[01:48:49] <archivist> carried as baggage
[01:49:07] <Wolf_> lol, buy it and ask for local pickup
[01:51:59] <Wolf_> $75 for the mi12 paper user guide… >.< that you can download for free still
[01:53:31] <archivist> but it has Renishaw on the cover!
[01:53:51] <archivist> same as idiots paying too much for Apple
[01:53:53] <Wolf_> yeah lol… what was that about over priced worn out gear? http://www.ebay.com/itm/RENISHAW-MACHINE-INTERFACE-MI12-/152292609347?hash=item237558cd43:g:-yAAAOSwcLxYDkFU
[01:54:54] <archivist> well abused had 9 previous lives
[01:55:40] <archivist> and no OMM to make it useful
[01:55:58] <Wolf_> oddly… I have a OMM head already lol
[01:56:33] <archivist> grr
[02:02:52] <Wolf_> wonder how hard it would be to make a IR receiver and decode the tx from the probe
[02:03:30] <LeelooMinai> If you know something about EE - kind of trivial.
[02:04:09] <Wolf_> if knew EE stuff I wouldnt be wondering lol
[02:04:55] <LeelooMinai> Well, if you don't know - someone would need to do it probably. Because it would require looking at the signal, scoping it or using LA to RE it, etc. and then designing the circuit.
[02:05:18] <LeelooMinai> Easy if that's what you do, black magic if you don't.
[02:06:09] <Wolf_> would need to make a receiver first for sure, cause opening the probe body with the TX board doesn’t seem trivial
[02:06:21] <archivist> I have the TL02 which transmits to an OMM
[02:06:27] <archivist> LT02
[02:11:44] <archivist> because of the OMM and interface prices I went a cheaper option for the LP20 probe which was to get a direct connection socket
[02:12:10] <Wolf_> hmm, the OMM isn’t a dumb head is it?
[02:18:13] <archivist> no, there are some comms, switch on, arm, battery level sense of the remote probe
[02:20:02] <Wolf_> well, MP9 is spin to start, so don’t need to worry about start signal, data sheet shows 2 signal wires (guessing outputs), a start 1, 0v and 10v
[02:21:59] <Wolf_> might not be too hard to scope out after all
[02:24:23] <Deejay> moin
[02:32:09] <Wolf_> hmm, I might have to play with that thing some
[02:32:25] <Wolf_> morning Deejay
[02:34:05] <archivist> the comms might just be start only outgoing with all the other info tagged on the serial data
[02:34:44] <archivist> I have an implementers manual upstairs
[02:35:36] <Wolf_> does that have a breakdown of the data line or something?
[02:35:52] <archivist> there was some discussion on the mailing list a few months ago on protocols from probes
[02:37:27] <Wolf_> I’m going to need to revisit this when I’m actually at home, if I had the OMM in front of me I could open it up and just look to see what wires go where on the board
[02:39:17] <archivist> the thread was [Emc-users] snagged touch probe on eBay - anybody know how to interface
[02:39:46] <archivist> 6 wires to the OMM
[02:41:45] <archivist> and no pin info in the OMM manual, just tells you cable colours
[02:42:35] <Wolf_> yeah, the data sheet I’m looking at just lists colors and SIGNAL 1 for both signal wires
[03:01:07] <archivist> Wolf_, I have some waveforms in the programming manual
[03:02:42] <Wolf_> well, that might be helpful
[03:03:34] <archivist> this manual covers the OMI to fanuc
[03:04:32] <archivist> and has signal names OMM to MI12
[03:05:12] <Wolf_> yeah, I just read somewhere that the OMI is pretty much a OMM+mi12
[03:05:38] <Wolf_> what does it say for the signal names for the OMM to mi12
[03:08:34] <archivist> MI12 pin numbers 1, signal yellow, 2 not signal(inverted) grey 3 start white, 4 0v green, 5 10v brown, 18 ground (screen)
[03:09:11] <Wolf_> not signal? lol
[03:09:12] <archivist> so knowing the colours in the OMM we now know functions
[03:09:41] <archivist> common to use a differential par for less electrical noise
[03:09:47] <archivist> pair
[03:09:54] <Wolf_> ahh, ok
[03:10:20] <sync> Wolf_: we already have the omm reversed
[03:10:33] <Wolf_> oh really sync?
[03:10:35] <sync> yes
[03:10:41] <archivist> this manual H2000-6040
[03:11:57] <Wolf_> sync: where can I find that?
[03:12:30] <sync> https://github.com/rene-dev/stmbl/blob/master/src/comps/probe.comp
[03:15:18] <Wolf_> heh, really wish I knew how to program right about now… I have no idea what I’m looking at
[03:17:51] <sync> well, I don't have a scope shot of what is happening but basically it sends a square wave to turn the probe on iirc and then some reply comes back from the probe
[03:18:07] <sync> whih all the stuff from l 133 detects
[03:22:24] <Wolf_> actually there is a sorta breakdown of signals I think in the mi12 manual
[03:23:06] <rene-dev> Some receivers are dumb and only do ir, and require an external box to decode
[03:23:17] <rene-dev> Some have everything internal
[03:23:40] <Wolf_> knowing my luck I probably have the totally dumb one
[03:23:52] <rene-dev> I have dumps of all of them
[03:24:21] <rene-dev> So you can hust hook it to a microcontroller to do the rest
[03:25:22] <rene-dev> The code just sends the activation code via dma
[03:26:07] <Wolf_> the probe I have doesn’t need a start signal, its spin to start (1-4sec at 500rpm
[03:26:20] <rene-dev> Ah, ok
[03:26:31] <rene-dev> Then just look what it sends back
[03:26:51] <rene-dev> The older ones just have a square
[03:27:03] <Wolf_> http://i.imgur.com/N16NSrP.png is from the mi12 H-2000-5073-05-J
[03:27:23] <sync> no, the optical signal
[03:27:37] <rene-dev> The newer models also have a address, to select which probe to activate. Table or spindle
[03:27:41] <sync> just rig up a filtered ir diode and look at it
[03:27:59] <archivist> the OMM can be that opto
[03:28:07] <rene-dev> That is the output of the interface
[03:28:10] <sync> yup the omm is dumb
[03:28:14] <sync> iirc
[03:28:51] <archivist> by the signals, it does seem dumb
[03:29:54] <rene-dev> Yes, it requires another box then to decode the ir signal
[03:30:36] <Wolf_> yeah, I’m going to have to look at the stuff and mess with it when its actually in front of me
[03:31:54] <archivist> this manual has the trigger to signal delay time 144us +- 5%
[03:32:35] <archivist> useful to gauge the actual trigger point in time
[03:36:40] <rene-dev> archivist you dont need that
[03:37:53] <archivist> you have passed the contact point in that time, has to be calibrated out along with the spring and other errors
[03:38:30] <rene-dev> with a servo thread at 1 kHz it will be hard to measure 144u delay
[03:39:39] <rene-dev> the springiness of the probe will be less than the accuracy of your machine
[03:40:34] <archivist> depends on the machine and probe speed
[03:40:59] <rene-dev> the final probe move will be slow anyway... but I think they are speced at 0.005 at 6m/s
[03:41:42] <archivist> I can see most are not calibrating properly at the moment
[03:42:49] <rene-dev> how do you calibrate them? the runout can be adjusted in hardware close to the spindle runout
[03:43:07] <rene-dev> length I measure with the table probe touching the spindle probe
[03:43:35] <rene-dev> ruby ball is round enough for what Im doing
[03:43:44] <archivist> my CMM uses a ball as a standard and tests the variation from measured value
[03:44:23] <rene-dev> sure, but many mills are not as accurate as a cmm
[03:45:20] <archivist> some users seem to think they can measure to similar accuracy......
[03:46:25] <rene-dev> Its all pointless anyway unless your machine is in a temperature controlled environment
[03:47:14] <rene-dev> next thing Im looking at is measuring diameters of endmills with the table probe
[03:48:07] <archivist> renishaw have a square tip for that
[03:48:22] <rene-dev> ah, ok
[03:48:27] <rene-dev> mine is round
[03:49:46] <Wolf_> only reason I want a probe is for work piece touch off…
[03:50:35] <archivist> http://img.directindustry.com/images_di/photo-g/5200-9868587.jpg
[03:51:15] <archivist> I bet they are sods to set square
[03:53:18] <rene-dev> :D
[03:53:39] <sync> idk, a round one probably is good enough
[03:54:02] <rene-dev> Wolf_: that is easy
[03:58:43] <Wolf_> figured it would be
[05:58:19] <XXCoder> boom
[06:01:09] <SpeedEvil> https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjq-LSLu9_QAhWlLcAKHfZADG4QFggiMAE&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww-robotics.jpl.nasa.gov%2Fpublications%2FMatthew_Heverly%2FHeverly_2010_AMS_Tri-ATHLETE.pdf
[06:01:25] <XXCoder> messy url
[06:01:29] <SpeedEvil> On design of expensive robot vehicles. 10000Nm servos, precisely machined custom gearboxes,
[06:01:47] <SpeedEvil> yeah - I know - the proper URL won't copy for some reason and I can't be bothered screwing it
[06:02:20] <XXCoder> https://www-robotics.jpl.nasa.gov/publications/Matthew_Heverly/Heverly_2010_AMS_Tri-ATHLETE.pdf
[06:02:29] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[06:03:01] <SpeedEvil> I'd love a proper expanded diagram for all the joints.
[06:03:15] <XXCoder> glanced though. pretty cool
[06:07:42] <sync> doesn't look terribly fancy tho
[06:07:53] <sync> they just use harmonic drives, which is a good choice
[06:10:00] <SpeedEvil> yeah - not terribly fancy.
[06:10:28] <SpeedEvil> Fun design of half robots that grab a pallet to move it.
[06:11:22] <SpeedEvil> On the topic of ridiculously vague questions - is there a belt equivalent of the harmonic drive?
[06:30:24] <archivist> there are other competing reduction gears which dont require the bending of the harmonic gear
[06:43:55] <SpeedEvil> you mean other than planetary say?
[06:45:00] <SpeedEvil> I guess I first need to get these hoverboard wheels + ... working well, then work out how to do modest reduction drives for them.
[06:45:57] <archivist> there are some that have a series of pegs on the outer, and a wheel with slots mounted on an eccentric drive
[06:47:31] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[06:50:47] <pink_vampire> hi
[06:51:33] <XXCoder> hey pink
[06:51:42] <pink_vampire> how are you
[06:52:05] <XXCoder> slightly sick. Im guessing cold
[06:52:32] <pink_vampire> i have also problems
[06:53:30] <XXCoder> yeah?
[06:54:50] <pink_vampire> the machine stat to make steel chips
[06:55:02] <pink_vampire> and it go alllll oveeeer
[06:55:08] <pink_vampire> razor sharp
[06:55:22] <XXCoder> yep and its hard enough t cut though shoes
[06:55:37] <pink_vampire> i know
[06:55:48] <XXCoder> I'm glad I wear good shoes at work. once pulled steel chip out of it, it was half inch in
[06:55:52] <XXCoder> (heel)
[06:56:50] <pink_vampire> so i have to find a good enclosure for the machine
[06:58:17] <XXCoder> can always build one out of 2020 extrusions
[06:58:21] <XXCoder> or cheaper 1010 ones
[06:58:26] <pink_vampire> but all i see is just diy wood stuff
[06:58:36] <XXCoder> cheap clear plastic panes for cover
[06:58:44] <pink_vampire> i want it water tight
[06:58:59] <XXCoder> ah dunno then
[06:59:24] <SpeedEvil> Do you mean splashproof?
[06:59:31] <SpeedEvil> Or actually needing to take pressure
[06:59:42] <pink_vampire> and use some pressure coolant (so no need for air compressor)
[07:01:37] <archivist> SpeedEvil, I think the magic term is cycloidal reduction gear
[07:02:38] <XXCoder> well bottom can be watertight and collects coolant
[07:02:45] <pink_vampire> the body of the enclosures is relatively easy to manufacture, but my biggest issue is to find how to seal the doors
[07:02:52] <XXCoder> while walls dont really have to as long as it dont leak out just in
[07:03:31] <XXCoder> old fadal at work have doors thats not watertight (and no roof) enclosure and it works 99% of time
[07:03:56] <pink_vampire> how they work??
[07:04:03] <XXCoder> like slide doors
[07:04:18] <XXCoder> not very complex. tiny metal strip on one to cover that tiny gap when closed
[07:04:51] <XXCoder> whats important is bottom do need to be watertight so coolant gatherin on it can be collected and pumped again
[07:05:27] <pink_vampire> i know
[07:05:47] <XXCoder> so its not really that complex
[07:06:09] <pink_vampire> and i want it metal
[07:06:12] <XXCoder> walls and sliding parts of enclosure can easult made from cheap extrusions
[07:06:28] <XXCoder> and using clear hard plastic as front so you can see inside
[07:06:44] <XXCoder> of course that would evenually get too chipped but easy enough to replace
[07:07:13] <XXCoder> fadal doors has whole screen clear screen. its over decade old and can kinda see inside
[07:07:27] <archivist> SpeedEvil, http://machinedesign.com/archive/sometimes-it-pays-be-eccentric
[07:08:40] <pink_vampire> how much it will cost if i want a tinsmith to make me one?
[07:09:04] <XXCoder> bottom is harder part the walls you can make in minutes if you have materals
[07:09:26] <XXCoder> well a hour anyway if it needs more than just connect em together (1010s)
[07:09:46] <XXCoder> various sizes https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=1010+8020
[07:09:53] <pink_vampire> i need to be able to take it apart
[07:10:11] <XXCoder> thats whY I recommanded 1010, its easy to do that
[07:10:42] <pink_vampire> the walls it's not the issue
[07:11:00] <XXCoder> yeah bottom definitely harder
[07:11:27] <pink_vampire> the issue is how to make doors that can take 4-5 bars of pressure
[07:11:55] <archivist> that is a silly pressure
[07:12:02] <archivist> plain wrong
[07:12:23] <XXCoder> bars is unknown to me heh
[07:12:40] <XXCoder> I do know what it means but I cant visualize 1 bar means
[07:12:45] <XXCoder> 10 bar so on
[07:13:07] <pink_vampire> on the shower you have 3-5 bars of pressure
[07:13:14] <archivist> 14.7 pounds per square inch is about one bar
[07:13:30] <XXCoder> ah pink thanks
[07:13:43] <jdh> 14.5
[07:14:19] <archivist> do not confuse pressure in a pipe with a sheet pressure of some item you are hosing down
[07:15:09] <pink_vampire> i want the pressure to be high enough to also clear the chips out of the way
[07:16:42] <pink_vampire> anyway, i'm not talking about soft stream of coolant, i want it to push out the chips.
[07:17:12] <archivist> that is still only a splash against and cover
[07:17:17] <archivist> and/any
[07:17:47] <pink_vampire> but how i get a door like that?
[07:18:02] <pink_vampire> what is the name / therm for that
[07:18:18] <archivist> some plexiglass or similar
[07:18:42] <XXCoder> ah yes plexglass
[07:19:00] <pink_vampire> i mean the whole door
[07:19:28] <archivist> you make it, seal it
[07:19:40] <SpeedEvil> archivist: interesting
[07:20:02] <archivist> SpeedEvil, there is an animation on wikipedia
[07:20:15] <pink_vampire> archivist: I want to buy the door
[07:20:18] <archivist> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycloidal_drive
[07:21:34] * SpeedEvil ponders how to do a belt harmonic drive. (usefully)
[07:22:22] <pink_vampire> SpeedEvil: you can use a chain
[07:22:35] <pink_vampire> just buy is
[07:22:55] <XXCoder> harmonic drive chain?
[07:22:57] <SpeedEvil> Not so good for a compact high reduction drive
[07:23:11] <rene-dev> SpeedEvil same as a harmonic drive, but with a v belt profile instead of gears
[07:23:44] <rene-dev> a lot cheaper to make, because both parts can be made on a lathe
[07:23:45] <SpeedEvil> rene-dev: yeah - getting the belt/... to rotate smoothly is easy. Coupling it out not so much
[07:24:02] <rene-dev> no belt, just tooth profile
[07:24:23] <rene-dev> friction coupling is enough
[07:24:27] <rene-dev> yes, you get slip
[07:24:32] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[07:24:49] <rene-dev> so if you need positioning you need encoders on both ends
[07:25:39] <rene-dev> there is a robot manufacturer who is experimenting with this sort of thing to replace harmonic drives
[07:25:55] <rene-dev> and a german company which even makes them from plastic, for some applications
[07:26:29] <SpeedEvil> For low speed you could just use velcro :)
[07:26:55] <jthornton> XXCoder: slic3r master is building on LinuxMint 18 :)
[07:27:17] <rene-dev> you still get slip with velcro :D
[07:27:19] <pink_vampire> SpeedEvil: you can make a real harminic drive by making the tooth side first, then cover them with thick coat of fiber glass, then you can bore it to very thin wall
[07:27:29] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_gIe1zUMho tiny one
[07:27:46] <XXCoder> jthornton: the prusa version?
[07:27:57] <jthornton> yea
[07:27:57] <SpeedEvil> pink_vampire: you mean just to support?
[07:28:04] <pink_vampire> yes
[07:28:10] <XXCoder> need to do that. bed now later
[07:28:44] <pink_vampire> then just desolve the fiberglass in acetone
[07:31:39] <pink_vampire> how much it cost to make heat treatment to small parts?
[07:32:44] <SpeedEvil> pink_vampire: depends what equipment you have
[07:32:50] <rene-dev> http://www.igus.de/contentData/Product_Files/Download/pdf/DE-EN_Herbstnews_robolink_web.pdf
[07:32:52] <rene-dev> plastic harmonic drives
[07:33:10] <pink_vampire> mill
[07:33:37] <SpeedEvil> At one level, you have a stainless bucket of small parts, throw it in kiln, wait, put on oven-gloves, take out of kiln, and throw in bucket of water/oil, then repeat to temper
[07:34:00] <SpeedEvil> Cost can be ~$0 per part
[07:34:17] <pink_vampire> i want to send them out
[07:34:54] <SpeedEvil> what are you wanting to treat?
[07:35:47] <pink_vampire> something like the v-block i made
[07:43:17] <gregcnc> Starrett makes nice pre hardened Vee blocks
[08:41:28] <CaptHindsight> https://imagebin.ca/v/34RsmvzYocdd robolink
[08:42:06] <CaptHindsight> nothing specials
[08:43:29] <CaptHindsight> budget version of these https://www.newport.com/c/motorized-rotation-stages
[08:51:58] <CaptHindsight> Since the positioning errors for multiple axis are compounded, system designs have a positioning inaccuracy, or repeatability accuracy of approx. 1-2mm for multi-axes systems (depending on the number of axes and tube lengths).
[08:56:34] <Devilholk> Morning
[08:58:18] <Devilholk> I am browsing the source a bit, trying to get an overview. I know that linuxcnc can use direct IO for controlling stepper motors but I have an external board that interfaces with sensors and motors
[08:59:21] <archivist> what sort of external board, does it have a parallel port
[08:59:23] <cradek> if it has a low latency interface with the computer, you could write a hal driver for it
[08:59:42] <Devilholk> cradek: That was what I was thinking about
[09:00:03] <Devilholk> But I don't want to send step commands, rather send positions and speeds to the board
[09:00:04] <cradek> we have examples of using EPP, PCI, PCI-e, ISA, SPI, ethernet
[09:00:09] <cradek> lots of options
[09:00:24] <Devilholk> But since I am unfamiliar with the linuxcnc code base I am not really sure where to look for inspiration
[09:00:35] <archivist> an external trajectory planner?
[09:00:45] <cradek> right if it has an external step generator, you'd send it position or velocity commands and get position feedback every servo cycle (usually 1 ms)
[09:01:09] <cradek> we have lots of those kinds of devices
[09:01:12] <Devilholk> archivist: not planner, just executing the trajectory
[09:01:15] <cradek> what is the interface with the computer?
[09:01:37] <Devilholk> cradek: USB serial at 1 MBAUD
[09:01:56] <archivist> usb has dead periods
[09:02:15] <cradek> please read through http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?HardwareDesign
[09:02:43] <cradek> USB is not a low latency connection and will almost certainly not work with the linuxcnc system of expecting to communicate in both directions reliably every ms
[09:03:03] <cradek> the HAL requirements are spelled out on that wiki page
[09:03:34] <Devilholk> Evry ms is no problem
[09:03:51] <cradek> why do you think that?
[09:03:57] <Devilholk> Because I have done it before
[09:04:08] <cradek> what is the worst latency you see?
[09:04:21] <CaptHindsight> the hardware spec for USB doesn't support it
[09:04:23] <Devilholk> actually, come to think of it, never measured the latency
[09:04:30] <archivist> USB has defined handshake a lot slower than that to identify devices
[09:04:39] <Devilholk> So the stream, though high freq of packets, may be latent
[09:04:40] <CaptHindsight> but I guess if you make your own USB controllers is can work
[09:05:03] <cradek> we would love to be proved wrong, but our information says that it can't work with the HAL timing model
[09:05:13] <cradek> yeah that's unfortunately the problem :-/
[09:05:23] <Devilholk> Yeah, reading point 4 of the hardware design page was interesting
[09:05:38] <cradek> USB can be very high throughput but that doesn't help in our model
[09:05:44] <Devilholk> Yeah
[09:06:14] <Devilholk> I was actually working before on my own CNC controlling software, the idea was that the motions happens on the external board
[09:06:29] <cradek> yeah, lots of folks have done that
[09:06:38] <Devilholk> But the hard design page does raise a very valid point, new motions will mean firmware update
[09:07:49] <Devilholk> If I use a non USB serial port on a computer I guess I could just make a simple HAL that will send the step/dir commands to the board
[09:07:57] <cradek> if you watch the mach lists and see them whinge about which external motion controllers can cut reliable threads on a lathe this week and which ones can't, you lose interest in that scheme fast
[09:08:05] <Devilholk> As a quick way of getting my machine up and running and then later make a more elaborate solution
[09:08:16] <cradek> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?HardwareDesign#RS232_Serial
[09:08:38] <Devilholk> top speed 115200?
[09:08:43] <cradek> rs232 probably does not have the needed bandwidth
[09:08:45] <archivist> and there is no way they can hob/do axis gearing
[09:08:45] <Devilholk> Sounds like stone age
[09:08:52] <cradek> if you find otherwise, please update that page
[09:09:40] <archivist> someone thought about using the disk serial IO, dunno how far that got
[09:10:04] <Devilholk> lol, checked the computer I dedicated for the CNC
[09:10:13] <cradek> heh, seems like scsi is probably a decent fit too, but not widely/cheaply available
[09:10:15] <Devilholk> It basically has no good interfaces, not even a serial port
[09:10:20] <archivist> else dedicated ethernet is the way for "serial"
[09:10:51] <cradek> Devilholk: there are very good and inexpensive products available from mesa that work great with linuxcnc over a variety of interfaces
[09:11:09] <Devilholk> What kind of products?
[09:11:12] <cradek> might want to consider just getting better hardware for the application
[09:11:34] <Devilholk> Well.. I like a challenge =)
[09:11:37] <Devilholk> I am a bit weird that way
[09:12:03] <Devilholk> I have another question, I see a lot of people use USB → SPP to interface with stepper motor drivers
[09:12:12] <cradek> http://mesaus.com/ is a reseller of mesa hardware, and has specific information about linuxcnc compatibility
[09:12:12] <Devilholk> This would suffer the same latency issues as all USB things?
[09:12:30] <cradek> surely
[09:12:49] <cradek> bbl, coffee
[09:12:59] <Devilholk> But it seems people get it to work, are there hidden issues, like things could go wrong but seldom does?
[09:13:39] <archivist> if you plug anything into usb an enumeration event will happen
[09:14:11] <CaptHindsight> not really a challenge, just read the spec
[09:14:45] <CaptHindsight> they didn't care about low latency when they designed USB
[09:14:51] <archivist> USB spec is a bit of a "read"
[09:15:20] <Devilholk> I have briefly looked trough it but I have not calculated the timing requirements for linuxcnc etc. so I don't know much about it, that's why I ask =)
[09:15:35] <CaptHindsight> ethernet controllers are cheap
[09:15:35] <archivist> while later speeds are higher it falls back for enumeration
[09:15:41] <Devilholk> But if you don't mess with the USB, just one device on the host, then it is likely to work just fine+
[09:15:44] <Devilholk> ?
[09:16:11] <Devilholk> If there are no enumeration events
[09:16:22] <archivist> the OS could just be nosey and check
[09:16:37] <archivist> so it is a bit unknown
[09:17:11] <Devilholk> Maybe I could tell my OS not to check unless I specifically ask for it..
[09:17:29] <archivist> I have left devices here coupled and some seem to reconnect at random others are stable
[09:17:35] <Devilholk> Yeah
[09:17:55] <Devilholk> I get re-enumerations when I play with high voltage ^^
[09:18:20] <Devilholk> I guess I could try to find another computer, one that has a SPP, just as a quick fix for now
[09:18:35] <archivist> my card readers seem flaky, the barcode scanner perfect
[09:19:24] <Devilholk> Thanks for the input and the links
[09:19:39] <Devilholk> It does help me a lot in figuring out short and long term solutions for my needs =)
[09:20:29] <archivist> with linuxcnc you put the working code on the external device and remote the display
[09:21:58] <Devilholk> You mean if I get one of those remote motion controllers?
[09:22:14] <Devilholk> I want to solve it for now with stuff I already have at my home, want to be able to mill some stuff this weekend
[09:22:39] <archivist> no, a rpi3 or something like that
[09:22:47] <Devilholk> Ah, yeah
[09:22:50] <Devilholk> Can't afford one for now
[09:23:05] <Devilholk> But otherwise I could get one from my local mall ^^
[09:23:21] <archivist> you can just connect parallel port via a breakout board to stepper drivers and start cutting
[09:23:38] <Devilholk> yeah I know
[09:23:56] <Devilholk> THat's nice with embedded systems, you usually have very nice direct IO =)
[09:24:31] <archivist> cheap http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-Axis-CNC-Breakout-Board-Adapter-Stepper-Motor-Driver-Mach3-USB-Cable-Tools-/252307419456
[09:24:46] <gregcnc> for pick and packing donuts?
[09:24:50] <archivist> the usb cable is for 5v
[09:26:55] <Devilholk> I already have a board, I just need to find a mobo with SPP ^^
[09:28:09] <Devilholk> I wonder if one could use S/PDIF as a low latency connection ^^
[09:31:24] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: good match for those worm driven rotaries
[09:31:53] <gregcnc> that's what i was replying to, didn't realize I was scrolled up an hour
[09:32:19] <CaptHindsight> Igus has cleverly hidden the repeatability specs
[09:32:51] <CaptHindsight> just replaced it with a blanket statement of 1-2mm
[09:32:59] <archivist> dare not measure those specs!
[09:33:52] <CaptHindsight> I like Igus for low budget, consumer quality automation
[09:34:17] <CaptHindsight> automating furniture and consumer electronics
[09:35:01] <archivist> I could actually measure an igus thread on the thread measuring machine
[09:35:35] <archivist> if I can remember where the sample box is
[09:35:45] <gregcnc> If I didn't have to get up in the morning and walk into the kitchen to get 1-2mm tolerance omelettes that would be OK.
[09:36:33] <CaptHindsight> robot flapjack flipper
[09:38:13] <gregcnc> problem is you'll have to wait until the chinese copy their own copies to get the price to fit walmart grade
[09:38:33] <CaptHindsight> plastic worm gear
[09:38:57] <CaptHindsight> when i want it cheap next year, I float the plans to Chinaco
[09:39:57] <CaptHindsight> but now we'll be able to make it all cheap here when they add the 35% duty to all ChinaCo products
[09:41:02] <gregcnc> is that the plan?
[09:41:04] <jdh> and not pass the increased cost to the consumer
[09:41:18] <CaptHindsight> one of the rumors
[09:41:24] <CaptHindsight> who knows
[09:41:46] <CaptHindsight> I should take bets on whats BS or not
[09:42:04] <rene-dev> archivist: Devilholk you cant, because there is only ever one usb frame every ms, and you have no control over which frame your packets go into. just use ethernet.
[09:42:45] <Devilholk> rene-dev: I found a SPI bus on the mobo, I will look into using it, if it is not too hard I'll just use that
[09:43:59] <jdh> heh
[09:44:33] <rene-dev> trust me, been there, done that. its all not worth the time and effort. I even looked into using LPC, because its easy to implement, but next to impossible to interface
[09:44:59] <Devilholk> What is that? Found multiple acronyms
[09:45:14] <rene-dev> sort of serial ISA bus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Pin_Count
[09:45:16] <Devilholk> Ah
[09:45:26] <rene-dev> for legacy reasons x86 still requires ISA
[09:45:36] <Devilholk> I didn't know that, interesting
[09:45:48] <Devilholk> But the worthness may not be worth in terms of "being able to control the CNC"
[09:46:10] <rene-dev> ethernet just works with everything
[09:46:26] <Devilholk> But there are other things, practicing device driver coding and learn more about the computer system details
[09:46:31] <CaptHindsight> how else do you find out how much you don't know?
[09:46:38] <pcw_home> SuperIO chips are often LPC (like parallel/serial/etc)
[09:47:03] <pcw_home> also legacy interrupt/KBC etc
[09:47:05] <Devilholk> imgur was not nice to me, but there is a sound chip here https://konverseramera.se/IMG_3513.JPG
[09:47:19] <Devilholk> Going to hook up my scope to the SPI-ish bus there
[09:47:29] <Devilholk> It runs a 24 MHz synchronized serial protocol
[09:47:33] <rene-dev> almost every hardware has it, very easy to interface, easy to programm, already isolated by design...
[09:47:57] <Devilholk> So first test will just be to adjust mixer settings with alsa mixer and listening to the data
[09:47:58] <rene-dev> CaptHindsight: I was looking for realtime capable IOs on x86
[09:48:04] <Devilholk> Then I can see if I can send my own data =)
[09:48:22] <Devilholk> It is a fun thing to try, mostly for the experience, not for the usefulness =)
[09:48:36] <rene-dev> Devilholk: 24 mhz seems fast enough, but is there anything else on the bus?
[09:49:31] <CaptHindsight> LPC controller in chipsets are often broken or don't have the full spec
[09:49:38] <Devilholk> rene-dev: I think it is a dedicated bus
[09:49:52] <CaptHindsight> they are there to load the firmware
[09:50:02] <Devilholk> Reading the DS now to see if there is any way to have multiple devices on the bus
[09:50:14] <rene-dev> CaptHindsight: I know, and there is no connector. that is why I abandoned the project. that was long before linuxcnc could do ethernet :D
[09:50:21] <Devilholk> If not, it must be dedicated and then I can just desolder the sound chip
[09:50:31] <rene-dev> or the CS line
[09:50:48] <Devilholk> It is not a proper SPI, it is SPI-ish =)
[09:50:58] <rene-dev> ah, if its for sound its i2s
[09:51:07] <Devilholk> It seems to have a 4 bit node id in the command protocol
[09:51:09] <CaptHindsight> PCIe ethrnet controllers are $10
[09:51:15] <rene-dev> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I%C2%B2S
[09:51:53] <pink_vampire> is there Z correction in linux cnc?
[09:52:26] <Devilholk> rene-dev: In this case I don't think it is I²S
[09:52:28] <gregcnc> you can have backlash and screw compensation on any axis
[09:54:27] <pink_vampire> I mean to probe an "organic" surface and cut the same depth in to the surface
[09:55:22] <rene-dev> pink_vampire: http://phk.freebsd.dk/CncPcb/
[09:55:54] <gregcnc> Wouldn't you probe the surface, generate it in CAD, then CAM your toolpath?
[09:56:13] <FinboySlick> gregcnc: My thoughts exactly.
[09:56:26] <pink_vampire> no
[09:56:29] <pink_vampire> look here
[09:56:31] <pink_vampire> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMgiEIugtKc
[09:56:36] <FinboySlick> Unless it's a live specimen and the surface changes as it is writhing in pain.
[09:56:45] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ferrocor.com/fire-resistant-curtains-dupond-fire-curtains-3/ is there such a thing as a low cost version of these?
[09:56:50] <FinboySlick> Can't put anything past pink_vampire.
[09:57:07] <gregcnc> buy a datron or code it yourself?
[09:57:27] <archivist> some coding required
[09:59:36] <pink_vampire> I mean it's done on the linux cnc controller, or it 2 steps operation?
[10:00:27] <rene-dev> you can code it in gcode
[10:01:10] <gregcnc> out of curiosity, what application other than pumpkin carving does it have?
[10:01:25] <archivist> you deviate by cut depth from your scan of the object
[10:01:31] <CaptHindsight> cake batter filling
[10:01:33] <pcw_home> tatooing?
[10:01:38] <rene-dev> engraving?
[10:02:18] <CaptHindsight> on hanger garment vacuum
[10:03:09] <pcw_home> May smarter to use a cheap laser/ultrasonic rangefinder and do the z axis comp in real time as you engrave
[10:03:45] <pcw_home> (there are couple of buck laser rangefinder chips now)
[10:03:51] <SpeedEvil> I was pondering using one of those little laser rangefinders, and making adrillstop
[10:04:15] <SpeedEvil> Or perhaps two, to aid in alignment
[10:04:23] <pcw_home> wonder how long it would stay clean though
[10:04:47] <SpeedEvil> true
[10:05:18] <pcw_home> especially pumpkin carving
[10:05:31] <archivist> so would the red laser see the blood spatter
[10:06:05] <pcw_home> wonder if they have a range gate so could ignore a window
[10:06:42] <gregcnc> went to a winter festival in town over the weekend. There were 20 or so ice "scupltures" on display. Only 3 were hand carved.
[10:06:57] <SpeedEvil> pcw_home: they are ~10cm only
[10:07:06] <SpeedEvil> they can ignore windows to a degree
[10:07:34] <SpeedEvil> Oooh
[10:07:43] <gregcnc> the rest had CNC hot wired foam inserts sandwiched between two sheets of ices with a little decorative carving on the extorior
[10:08:01] <SpeedEvil> ice 3d printer would be fun
[10:08:12] <SpeedEvil> you'd need a coldbox of course
[10:08:44] <pink_vampire> on mach3, i probe the surface, and then produce a gcode for that surface
[10:09:16] <jdh> there is a z adjust script that will do that
[10:10:58] <pink_vampire> jdh: it's in the settings?
[10:11:18] <archivist> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ProbeKins
[10:14:53] <CaptHindsight> SpeedEvil: for making custom shaved ice treats?
[10:15:15] <SpeedEvil> I was more imagining sculptures.
[10:16:03] <jdh> I got a script that does the probing and rewrites the gcode based on probe results.
[10:16:50] <pink_vampire> jdh: yeah, that is what i'm looking for
[10:19:01] <CaptHindsight> has anyone done a "learn mode" that outputs the G-code? Use a gamepad to move the machine, save the g-code for editing and later runs.
[10:19:19] <CaptHindsight> like most robots have
[10:19:33] <pink_vampire> that can be very nice
[10:20:00] <jdh> wee.autoleveller.co.uk
[10:20:19] <jdh> www
[10:20:21] <pink_vampire> Server not found
[10:20:24] <pink_vampire> ho
[10:21:02] <jdh> the one I used was different and in python
[10:21:59] <gregcnc> is there a limit to how much the Z levellers will compensate? i mean they are made for cutting PCB that are almost but not quite flat
[10:22:13] <gregcnc> will it trace a PCB effective on a sphere?
[10:30:59] <pink_vampire> gregcnc: http://www.autoleveller.co.uk/running-autoleveller-and-installing-java-on-ubuntu-10-04/
[10:31:08] <pink_vampire> maybe that can help?
[10:31:57] <pcw_home> SpeedEvil: looks like ST has a new time of flight sensor good to 2 meters
[10:34:47] <archivist> why the hell did they choose java
[10:36:35] <MacGalempsy> st?
[10:37:32] <pcw_home> ST Micro
[10:39:33] <MacGalempsy> sounds cool
[10:40:04] <pcw_home> http://www.st.com/en/imaging-and-photonics-solutions/vl53l0x.html?sc=VL53L0X%3ficmp=tt3624_gl_pron_may2016
[10:40:23] <CaptHindsight> http://www.migatron.com/high-accuracy-sensor/
[10:41:49] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: just fyi they are in woodstock ^^
[10:43:16] <gregcnc> i'm trying to shop MSC 50% flash sale, but have no idea how you actually find an item that qualifies
[10:43:52] <CaptHindsight> the Enco site always worked better
[10:43:59] <CaptHindsight> just enter the savings code
[10:44:35] <CaptHindsight> I should write them about how I switched to grainger and Mcmaster after they broke Enco
[10:45:01] <archivist> you supposed to explore and buy buy buy, they dont want you to find the bargains
[10:46:01] <CaptHindsight> yeah what kinna anticapitalist are yah!
[10:46:21] <gregcnc> people talk about stacking discounts, but they certainly don't for me
[10:47:23] <gregcnc> you have to put it in the cart to see what the price will be
[10:48:05] <CaptHindsight> http://cdn.mscdirect.com/global/scripts/marketing/promo.html?id=161206_PICK30H_web.png
[10:49:37] <Devilholk> nice.. I sniffed my sound controller and when I change volume in alsamixer I see the commands via the logic analyzer =)
[10:55:15] <CaptHindsight> mine smells of dust
[10:55:41] <Devilholk> Hehe
[11:03:36] <CaptHindsight> I'm looking back into LCNC for fluid handling. Well really it's just moving nozzles around and drawing and dispensing
[11:04:24] <CaptHindsight> G-code is like Martian to lab techs
[11:05:24] <Devilholk> I see G-code as an intermediate format
[11:06:01] <CaptHindsight> what do you do? Force techs to learn G-code or develop something thats easier for them to program and then convert to g-code or just write a new interpreter for LCNC as well?
[11:08:23] <Devilholk> It depends on the application
[11:08:39] <Devilholk> But generating g-code is common, that's what CAM software does
[11:09:01] <CaptHindsight> the techs in Bio tend to not have any previous experience in programming
[11:10:55] <Devilholk> Well, you would use a programmer to make some kind of interface
[11:12:31] <CaptHindsight> https://opentrons.com/ is too ghetto
[11:13:15] <Devilholk> In what way is it ghett?
[11:17:39] <CaptHindsight> http://docs.opentrons.com/
[11:18:03] <CaptHindsight> Devilholk: smoothie for one
[11:18:50] <Devilholk> smoothie is an external g code parser?
[11:19:15] <CaptHindsight> http://smoothieware.org/smoothieboard
[11:19:22] <Devilholk> yeah, that was the one I was thinking about
[11:19:51] <Devilholk> A lot of "professional machines" seem to be built on half finished open source projects
[11:20:06] <Devilholk> Everything is just patchwork it seems sometimes ^^
[11:29:53] <rene-dev> Devilholk what mainboard is that?
[11:35:09] <Devilholk> That I am messing with?
[11:35:20] <Devilholk> It is some super low budget thing I found inside I dell computer I think
[11:35:39] <Devilholk> some OEM crap =)
[12:24:01] <IchGucksLive> hi
[12:24:14] <IchGucksLive> -6C Fog outside
[12:24:30] <IchGucksLive> still like freezer in shoparea
[12:28:26] * Loetmichel just tested his cars asr and abs on the way back home
[12:29:08] <djdelorie> LeelooMinai: just want you to know, I didn't sleep well last night, as my brain kept trying to design touch probes... :-P
[12:29:16] <Loetmichel> RWD and hoarfrost on the tarmac: bad combination ;)
[12:30:52] <Loetmichel> <- was drifting down the autobahn exit like ken block today ;)
[12:31:25] <IchGucksLive> Road conditions not that bad here in ZW
[12:34:11] <Loetmichel> maaan... that (ex rolling deskchair with missing backrest) chair that my wife uses in the kitchen will kill me someday... to tep on its coasters while carrying grocerys in the dark kitchen... i should get some yellow/black warning tape and wrap it around its base... ;)
[12:34:40] <IchGucksLive> Loetmichel: where to get a cheep Schaltschrank 300x30
[12:34:49] <IchGucksLive> 300x300x150
[12:35:16] <IchGucksLive> standard mounting plate door with cable out plate
[12:35:58] <Loetmichel> Rittal ;)
[12:47:30] <Devilholk> rene-dev: Hehe, I blacklisted the sound chip and managed to send data on the bus =)
[12:48:00] <rene-dev> in the kernel? cool :)
[12:48:17] <CaptHindsight> shunned silicon
[12:48:18] <Devilholk> From userspace, I used some tools from alsa for device enumeration
[12:48:30] <Devilholk> Though I needed root privs to do it since it does stuff using sysfs I think
[12:48:43] <Devilholk> Will look into the details and do it in a more proper way
[12:49:12] <Devilholk> The kernel driver source is hard to find stuff in, you find all the functions and what they do, but how you get the pointers to the buses and devices have eluded me so far
[12:50:13] <IchGucksLive> Devilholk: what latency do you got improved
[12:50:27] <Devilholk> IchGucksLive: I am working on a really uggly hack
[12:50:56] <Devilholk> I am going to desolder the sound chip from a mother board and use that bus (which is more or less direct IO) to control my machine
[12:51:29] <IchGucksLive> some do it the hard way
[12:51:32] <Devilholk> Hehe
[12:51:37] <Devilholk> Yeah, but it is fun and I learn loads
[12:51:45] <IchGucksLive> others take fast hardware at 50 USD
[12:51:56] <Devilholk> I don't have 50 USD for the moment
[12:52:00] <CaptHindsight> they have Ethernet controller that just plug into PCIe, no soldering required :)
[12:52:15] <Devilholk> This motherboard doesn't have any expansion possibilities
[12:52:20] <Devilholk> A really scaled down OEM thing
[12:52:31] <IchGucksLive> use a HP5720 at 15USD
[12:52:32] <Devilholk> You can't even add a graphics card to it
[12:52:55] <Devilholk> I use what I have
[12:53:02] <Devilholk> This is what I happened to have so I am going to put it in my lemonad
[12:53:05] <IchGucksLive> or a complede 3D printer board at 10USD
[12:53:16] <Devilholk> yeah but I want it today also
[12:53:31] <IchGucksLive> tomorrow with no work is better
[12:53:50] <IchGucksLive> so you going to build a router with wood from ocenside
[12:54:02] <IchGucksLive> metal from carpark
[12:54:07] <Devilholk> I have a CNC mill a friend put here
[12:54:17] <IchGucksLive> and elektronics from WTC1
[12:54:54] <IchGucksLive> did he know that you are desolving his mashine
[12:55:04] <Devilholk> I am not touching his machine
[12:55:06] <Devilholk> THe computer is mine
[12:55:19] <Devilholk> Never mind the reasons why I do what I do, it is a complicated story
[12:55:22] <IchGucksLive> with a crap yu kill the controler
[12:55:49] <IchGucksLive> Devilholk: Whaere are you in the world
[12:55:49] <Devilholk> with a crap? o.O
[12:55:53] <Devilholk> Sween
[12:55:54] <Devilholk> Sweden
[12:56:14] <IchGucksLive> not far from RUS so get the parts on the black side
[12:56:24] <IchGucksLive> im in germany
[12:56:36] <IchGucksLive> verry cold up there
[12:56:52] <IchGucksLive> seen -20C around the upper Ostsee
[12:57:04] <Devilholk> If I order stuff I need to wait to get it, also I can't afford ordering any stuff until next year
[12:57:16] <Devilholk> So I'll just hack it, I will gain experience, fun and a working CNC
[12:57:18] <IchGucksLive> ok
[12:57:48] <IchGucksLive> today i shot a Interface with nice Flares and sparkels
[12:57:58] <IchGucksLive> as wrong relay fited in socket
[12:58:04] <Devilholk> ouch
[12:58:15] <IchGucksLive> and the interface wars hit by the full powerforce
[12:58:23] <IchGucksLive> expected 5V
[12:58:24] <Devilholk> I haven't seen much magic smoke lately =)
[12:58:28] <IchGucksLive> got 36
[12:58:35] <Devilholk> hehe, yeah, that will fry some stuff
[12:58:38] <IchGucksLive> no smoke
[12:58:50] <IchGucksLive> the HC got a depth hole inside
[12:59:35] <Devilholk> I had a LED lamp I built explode, it was connected to a lipo rated for 100A output
[12:59:43] <Devilholk> The driver board got a crater in it =)
[13:00:10] <IchGucksLive> this are the fun sides
[13:00:21] <IchGucksLive> interface is only 5Euros
[13:00:34] <IchGucksLive> 5 axis not worth to think on it
[13:00:45] <Devilholk> What kind of interface?
[13:00:51] <Devilholk> Like, how does it interface with the computer
[13:01:04] <IchGucksLive> parport standard
[13:01:06] <Loetmichel> Devilholk: hihi, i know that feeling
[13:01:14] <Devilholk> I don't have a SPP on this machine
[13:01:32] <Devilholk> If I had a SPP I wouldn't bother using the hdaudio bus =P
[13:01:34] <Loetmichel> you get that quite often when handlihg bigger brushless motors and ESCs for model planes ;)
[13:01:45] <Loetmichel> handling
[13:02:04] <IchGucksLive> Devilholk: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=mach3+interface&_sop=15
[13:02:05] <Devilholk> Loetmichel: Hehe yeah. High power applications in general =)
[13:02:17] <Loetmichel> i once had an ESC which had only the 12 cooling fins and the pins of the fets left
[13:02:19] <Devilholk> IchGucksLive: Yeah but it requires SPP
[13:02:26] <Loetmichel> the whole epoxy casing was missing ;)
[13:02:29] <Devilholk> Loetmichel: lol
[13:03:31] <Loetmichel> my quadrocopters draw quite a bit of power regulary... if there is a fault...
[13:03:51] <Loetmichel> the cells in the 4s lifepo pack are good for 160A continous ;)
[13:04:06] <Loetmichel> and i use that occasionally ;)
[13:06:02] <IchGucksLive> Devilholk: with less then 30USD it is real hard to build a good Eelctroniuc setup
[13:12:50] <Devilholk> IchGucksLive: What do you mean?
[13:13:00] <Devilholk> I have stuff I can use, I just need to modify some things
[13:13:09] <IchGucksLive> do it
[13:13:51] <Devilholk> Doing it =)
[13:36:37] <IchGucksLive> Gn8
[13:38:24] <andypugh> Well, I submitted a complaint to Alibaba, but I rather suspect that that is $250 I won’t see again.
[13:39:54] <jdh> what did you buy?
[13:42:31] <rene-dev> Devilholk what are you connecting to the spi?
[13:42:58] <Devilholk> rene-dev: An MCU hooked up to the stepper drivers
[13:43:14] <rene-dev> what mcu? what code?
[13:43:47] <Devilholk> stm32f410, I'll throw some code together in a bit
[13:43:55] <rene-dev> ah, cool :D
[13:44:10] <Devilholk> I'll make an article about it when it is finished
[13:44:15] <Devilholk> This will be neat blog material =)
[13:44:15] <andypugh> jdh: Some brass bar
[13:44:26] <rene-dev> Devilholk cool :D
[13:44:33] <rene-dev> you can also get spi stepper drivers
[13:44:34] <rene-dev> http://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/datasheet/3f/48/e2/37/6b/ac/4c/f5/DM00090983.pdf/files/DM00090983.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.DM00090983.pdf
[13:44:49] <Devilholk> This is not proper SPI
[13:44:57] <rene-dev> the mobo?
[13:44:59] <Devilholk> yeah
[13:45:11] <rene-dev> ah
[13:45:16] <Devilholk> I haven't identified how to know data begins yet but I made breakout just now
[13:45:25] <Devilholk> So going to hook it up to the logic analyzer
[13:45:33] <Devilholk> But first.. Figure out why imgur is not cooperative
[13:45:39] <rene-dev> I sometimes if there is no CS it just does a timeout on the clock
[13:45:46] <Devilholk> The clock keeps going all the time
[13:45:51] <rene-dev> ah
[13:45:57] <rene-dev> then there should be a cs pin
[13:46:03] <Devilholk> There is a signal DS of the chip says is "sample sync"
[13:46:08] <Devilholk> That might be like CS
[13:46:35] <rene-dev> Devilholk check out my stm32 based project, if you ever want to use servos: https://github.com/rene-dev/stmbl
[13:47:56] <Devilholk> You mean like 50 Hz servos?
[13:48:05] <rene-dev> what do you mean by 50hz
[13:48:13] <Devilholk> I didn't know how to describe it
[13:48:23] <rene-dev> 320v? yes
[13:48:31] <Devilholk> Servos that have pulse width modulation with extremely small duty cycle
[13:48:40] <Devilholk> Like RC servos, their control signal
[13:48:49] <Devilholk> usually 1-2 ms pulses at 50 hz ish
[13:48:49] <rene-dev> nonono
[13:48:55] <rene-dev> proper industrial servos
[13:49:03] <Devilholk> Ah cool, I don't even know how they talk
[13:49:07] <Devilholk> I used one that talked modbus
[13:49:16] <Devilholk> For a remote controlled trash can we built =)
[13:49:30] <rene-dev> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfJ4x4bL54U
[13:49:46] <evilroot> o.O
[13:49:51] <rene-dev> that talks almost anything, its the drive. I just use the motors
[13:50:03] <Devilholk> Ah ok
[13:50:03] * evilroot just happens to be working on large servo cartesian bots
[13:50:17] <Devilholk> How are the servos implemented? BLDC with position sensor?
[13:50:25] <Devilholk> or is it more like stepper motors but bigger
[13:50:28] <Wolf_> servo > http://i.imgur.com/EOp8e4l.jpg
[13:50:55] <Devilholk> That one seems to use 3 hall sensors =)
[13:50:59] <evilroot> Mine are 24V
[13:51:02] <evilroot> 1200W
[13:51:11] <Wolf_> Devilholk: yup, BLDC with encoder, can also be brushed motor with encoder as well
[13:51:13] <Devilholk> I don't have much fun HW >.<
[13:51:31] <evilroot> And are BLDC w high precision encoder
[13:51:46] <Wolf_> Devilholk: http://i.imgur.com/Qa21QJU.jpg it has a encoder on it as well
[13:51:54] <evilroot> The bots themselves are 1Mx.8Mx.6M build volume
[13:52:09] <evilroot> 1m/sec move speed, .04mm resolution
[13:52:14] <evilroot> All leadscrew
[13:52:21] <rene-dev> real industrial ac servos, with various feedback systems, abs encoder, resolvers and everything
[13:52:44] * evilroot intends on converting a few into mills/etc and selling the rest
[13:53:00] <evilroot> So if someone wants a big bot to play with I can hook you up :-D
[13:53:07] <rene-dev> Wolf_ thats a bldc. we do proper FOC
[13:53:34] <Devilholk> I will probably get more into BLDC motors and more industrial applications in the future
[13:53:36] <Devilholk> if all goes well
[13:53:43] <Devilholk> As a hobbyist it is hard to get to the really fun HW
[13:53:50] <Devilholk> Especially as a very poor hobbyist ^^
[13:54:04] <Wolf_> rene-dev: yeah, I know, but I can get the amps for these for $75 on ebay :D
[13:54:30] <rene-dev> €250 on ebay :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6NH1W7DUnQ
[13:55:08] <Wolf_> nice
[13:55:31] <Devilholk> rene-dev: It is looking horrible so far but it might work =) http://picpaste.com/pics/IMG_3518-FNy3Ppo2.1481052378.JPG
[13:55:44] <Devilholk> Those are insulated wires
[13:56:14] <rene-dev> cool
[13:58:30] <pink_vampire> is there a way to display a message from the g-code?
[13:58:49] <pink_vampire> lets say i want to probe something and display the value.
[14:00:12] <jdh> yes.
[14:00:41] <pink_vampire> how?
[14:01:18] <jdh> linuxcnc gcode overview
[14:02:22] <pink_vampire> what do you mean?
[14:03:11] <jdh> go to google.com, type in "linuxcnc gcode overview", press enter
[14:04:21] <pink_vampire> i was looking for it in the menu
[14:04:43] <pink_vampire> you mean to that ?http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/overview.html
[14:05:02] <jdh> yes
[14:05:51] <pink_vampire> that?
[14:05:54] <pink_vampire> (PRINT,) - messages are output to stderr with special handling for comment parameters as described below.
[14:06:09] <pink_vampire> what is "stderr"??
[14:06:47] <jdh> standard error.
[14:08:36] <pink_vampire> so
[14:08:46] <pink_vampire> PRINT TEST
[14:09:10] <pink_vampire> will display "TEST" on the screen?
[14:09:35] <rene-dev> no, on standart error. I think MSG will print to screen
[14:10:39] <jdh> (msg, test)
[14:12:12] <pink_vampire> i tried now MSG TEST, but i got nothing, now i will try with the ","
[14:12:56] <pink_vampire> nothing
[14:13:00] <pink_vampire> just error
[14:13:30] <jdh> with parens?
[14:13:35] <pink_vampire> "unknown word starting with s"
[14:13:55] <pcw_home> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/overview.html#gcode:messages
[14:14:59] <pink_vampire> msg test or msg, test or (msg, test)
[14:15:07] <pink_vampire> give the same error
[14:15:10] <pink_vampire> "unknown word starting with s"
[14:16:03] <jdh> did you read section 14?
[14:16:46] <pcw_home> (msg, test) works for me (try it in MDI)
[14:18:38] <pink_vampire> yes, i see it now, it was display below the screen
[14:21:13] <jdh> debug can display values
[14:24:17] <pink_vampire> i want to read the dro, then to store the number in variable, then probe something, then read the dro again, and store it in other variable, then to do some math on those values and display them
[14:25:42] <jdh> have you seen cradeks probe routines?
[14:25:49] <cradek> probing writes its results to variables. you don't want to read the dro after it stops, you want to use those values it writes
[14:26:53] <cradek> probing routines: http://timeguy.com/cradek/01262579508
[14:27:36] <cradek> heh look at the beginning of P-hole.ngc
[14:28:26] <pink_vampire> that look very very nice
[14:28:57] <pink_vampire> what is that mean?
[14:29:02] <pink_vampire> #1001=#5061 #1002=#5062
[14:29:46] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/overview.html#sub:numbered-parameters
[14:34:00] <pink_vampire> i see
[14:34:51] <pink_vampire> it's like stuff that already build in linux cnc
[14:35:44] <jt> romex staple instructions: Place staple over cable and install with a hammer lol
[14:36:34] <jdh> jt: should probably be more explicit about being outside the cable
[14:37:19] <skunkworks> does edm oil eat polypropylene?
[14:40:00] <CaptHindsight> most won't
[14:40:26] <CaptHindsight> what does the oil you're looking at contain?
[14:41:02] <CaptHindsight> if it does I want to see what is in it
[14:47:38] <CaptHindsight> Decaline, tetrachloroethane, o-xylene or toluene at high than room temps 80-140C
[14:48:43] <kyle____> anyone else here ever read ludwig's "metalworking" textbook?
[14:49:19] <pink_vampire> link?
[14:49:33] <kyle____> https://www.amazon.com/Metalwork-Technology-Practice-oswald-ludwig/dp/B0064OGD6G
[14:50:04] <kyle____> not seeing a better link... hmmm
[14:50:15] <pink_vampire> 10 Used from $1.48 1 New from $2,498.00
[14:50:18] <pink_vampire> wtf
[14:50:23] <kyle____> lol, sounds about right
[14:50:31] <pink_vampire> 2500$ for a book???????
[14:50:34] <kyle____> i picked up a used one, it's from 1969 and some of it is pretty outdated
[14:51:05] <kyle____> it's a good intro though
[14:52:37] <pink_vampire> i'm going to have some sleep
[14:53:05] <pink_vampire> too meany chips was here today..
[15:25:01] <jymmm> what would 2" or 4" black pipe be used for primarily? What industry?
[15:26:02] <Wolf_> fire control system
[15:26:07] <cradek> fire sprinkler, drains?
[15:26:39] <jymmm> ok, fire control. gas lines?
[15:26:48] <jymmm> or is that the smaller stuff?
[15:26:50] <cradek> maybe, but that's pretty big
[15:26:59] <Wolf_> usually smaller for gas line
[15:27:09] <jymmm> k
[15:27:26] <Wolf_> unless its a high flow application, commercial heaters/ovens
[15:27:57] <cradek> radiators?
[15:28:19] <Wolf_> I was just thinking about that, older steam heat systems
[15:28:25] <jymmm> I'm trying to salvage some, cause it be way too expensive to buy just as a test.
[15:28:34] <Wolf_> I ripped all of that out of my house
[15:28:49] <jymmm> Wolf_: but not 2" (I hope)
[15:29:03] <Wolf_> some was 2” and 1.5”
[15:29:10] <jymmm> doh
[15:29:38] <Wolf_> also had been in the house for a long long time
[15:30:33] <cradek> old iron pipe from old houses is not worth salvaging. it has a short life span (often less than 100 years)
[15:31:40] <Wolf_> yep, there was a good reason for taking it all out
[15:32:00] <jymmm> 100 years? Yeah, I think I could have still used it =)
[15:32:23] <Wolf_> my house is close to 200yrs old
[15:32:51] <Wolf_> pipes were pretty rusty when I gutted it all
[15:33:03] <jymmm> It wouldn't matter, it's gonna see some serious heat anyway
[15:34:55] <Wolf_> what are you trying to do
[15:36:18] <jymmm> Wolf_: The same thing we do every night pinky, TRY TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD!
[15:37:28] <automata_> hi andypugh
[15:37:37] <jymmm> Wolf_: burn chamber for a 55gal drum
[15:37:57] <Wolf_> why does it have to be round then?
[15:38:12] <jymmm> Wolf_: to screw into the bung hole
[15:39:35] <Wolf_> just weld it… but thats me
[15:39:48] <jymmm> if I had a wleder, I might
[15:44:54] <Wolf_> how do you plan to take over the world if you don’t have a welder…
[15:47:49] <jymmm> death ray?
[15:48:21] <jymmm> a really friendly st bernard?
[15:50:30] <Devilholk> rene-dev: Hehe, ran into unexpected issues (as always). When there is no chip, the generic driver fails probing and it is not loaded.. so now I need to brush up on compiling kernel modules but that is something I wanted to brush up on anyway
[15:50:38] <Devilholk> Seems pci express is quite messy too >.<
[15:59:26] <rene-dev> Devilholk: are you running rtai? Then a hal module is a kernel module. You should be able to write to the bus, no driver required. In fact you can't even use the kernel driver when running rtai.
[15:59:38] <Devilholk> rtai?
[16:00:12] <rene-dev> Did you already install linuxcnc?
[16:00:24] <Devilholk> no, not yet
[16:00:33] <Devilholk> I want to get the HW working first =)
[16:00:34] <Frank_6> thats the first step to take over the world mate
[16:00:50] <Devilholk> I have never messed with pcie devices before
[16:01:03] <Devilholk> I assume it is one of the "bridges" that I need to talk to
[16:01:15] <Devilholk> And that one of them translates into the specific SPI-ish bus
[16:01:49] <rene-dev> Uuh
[16:01:58] <Devilholk> So if I manage to compile the kernel module that worked before I desoldered the chip I might be able to add some debug output to figure out how it probes
[16:02:14] <Devilholk> Because basically what I need to do is to just send data to the "empty" bus
[16:02:18] <Devilholk> and then attach my HW there
[16:02:41] <Devilholk> But it could be that bios probes that chip too, I am unfamiliar with this stuff so far
[16:02:49] <Devilholk> I get some data there when the machine boots
[16:02:50] <rene-dev> So you cant write directly to the bus? Then stuff gets difficult
[16:02:56] <Devilholk> I can
[16:03:00] <Devilholk> But I don't know how
[16:03:27] <rene-dev> Where does the bus connect to?
[16:03:39] <Devilholk> I assume one of the bridges
[16:03:43] <rene-dev> The superio chip?
[16:03:46] <Devilholk> yeah prolly
[16:03:55] <rene-dev> Get the dataset for it
[16:04:32] <rene-dev> That helped me a lot when I messed with this stuff
[16:06:50] <Devilholk> I need to dig more in the kernel source first I think
[16:07:20] <Devilholk> Wish I had a call graph the size of a football field =)
[16:08:26] <rene-dev> You should just connect the stm32 via ethernet ^^
[16:09:19] <Devilholk> I don't have any of that thing that I forgot the name of, the chip you put between the phy and the mcu
[16:09:29] <Devilholk> And I have not played with ethernet yet
[16:11:43] <Devilholk> I am surprised that calling modprobe for the generic module that the specific module is patching doesnt result in bus activity
[16:12:05] <Devilholk> Aargh
[16:12:13] <Devilholk> It does, just had the triggering setup badly on the scope >.<
[16:13:20] <Devilholk> or maybe not.. well, I'll keep messing with this, it is fun =)
[16:22:59] <Frank_6> anyone works with a rack and pinion cnc machine?
[16:25:56] <Deejay> gn8
[17:30:22] <CaptHindsight> if electrical resistance convert electricity to heat, what does thermal resistance convert heat into?
[17:33:44] <pcw_mesa> cat hair
[17:34:01] <LeelooMinai> It resists, but that does not imply convert:)
[17:34:16] <FloppyDisk525> for thermal resistance, isn't that heat already and it's a matter of 'where' the heat goes. Ie conduction, radiation, or convection...
[17:34:51] <FloppyDisk525> It's not converted, it's simply 'held' before the thermal resistor...
[17:35:01] <FloppyDisk525> Do I win anything?
[17:35:02] <LeelooMinai> Thermal resistance is just a measure of how something non-conducts heat.
[17:35:07] <CaptHindsight> doesn't sound very fair
[17:35:27] <FloppyDisk525> ohhh, I don't win anything:-(
[17:35:50] <CaptHindsight> it might explain why cats are always in warm places
[17:42:23] <Wolf_> cat=heat? http://i.imgur.com/0BK6aGR.jpg
[17:42:39] <Wolf_> or thermal powered?
[17:46:11] <CaptHindsight> Wolf_: was that taken in natural light on your planet?
[17:47:24] <Wolf_> you don’t see heat?
[17:48:35] <CaptHindsight> pretty much just from 400-700nm
[17:50:46] <CaptHindsight> what would be more handy, having vision into the IR or UV?
[17:50:52] <Wolf_> http://i.imgur.com/DUOrGVB.jpg
[17:51:25] <Wolf_> after playing with the thermal cam, IR vision would be annoying
[17:52:24] <CaptHindsight> pretty sure it's what terminators use to track people
[17:52:56] <LeelooMinai> Snakes and many animals use it - it's rather useful to them:)
[17:54:42] <Wolf_> yeah, except that in real life most things aren’t opaque to IR vs the hollywood version of thermal that can see through everything
[17:55:21] <CaptHindsight> long-IR to mm wave imaging
[17:56:29] <CaptHindsight> all Schwarzenegger had to do was cover himself in mud to become invisible to IR
[17:56:51] <SpeedEvil> Most things are opaque to IR
[17:57:05] <SpeedEvil> (longwave IR)
[17:57:38] <CaptHindsight> how did Superman do t?
[17:57:39] <SpeedEvil> low density polythene is about the only one you'll really come across that's transparent
[17:58:08] <Wolf_> yeah I think I used the wrong word there… lol
[17:58:09] <SpeedEvil> (and some select other polymers - most are opaque)
[18:02:45] <Wolf_> ZnSe is transparent isn’t it?
[18:05:03] <LeelooMinai> Not to UV?
[18:05:28] <LeelooMinai> A, no, to to shorter wavelengths: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-fi6e7qWkDpo/TWwg6d4x76I/AAAAAAAAANk/okTbk-6kFOM/s640/ir-technicallibrary-znse-graph4.png
[18:05:39] <CaptHindsight> in the high 90's for % of transmittance
[18:06:10] <SpeedEvil> Wolf_: there is a handful of materials that are transparent to long-wave IR - you will encounter none of them 'in the wild' (apart from maybe polyethelene)
[18:06:21] <LeelooMinai> Right, so longer wavelengths on that graph are more transparent.
[18:07:51] <DaViruz> thats wavenumbers, the inverse of wavelength
[18:08:12] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, there's something weird about that graph.
[18:08:18] <LeelooMinai> DaViruz: A, ok
[18:09:10] <LeelooMinai> Not sure why they had to use weird units like that.
[18:09:31] <DaViruz> for some reason thats the standard unit in some applications
[18:10:20] <CaptHindsight> just FYI http://www.laserresearch.net/index.asp has lots of IR laser optics in stock at fair rprices
[18:10:53] <Wolf_> at some point I need to get a ZnSe lens for my flir cam
[18:10:59] <DaViruz> i didn't know PE was IR-transparent
[18:11:02] <DaViruz> cool
[18:11:27] <CaptHindsight> Wolf_: lens or window?
[18:11:33] <DaViruz> PE has a lot of weird properties
[18:11:50] <SpeedEvil> Wolf_: I have one.
[18:12:00] <SpeedEvil> Wolf_: I need to see if it works.
[18:12:49] <Wolf_> CaptHindsight: lens, I have in my notes to use a 20mm ZnSe 3”/76.2mm Focal length lens to make the cam more usable for close work
[18:14:05] <CaptHindsight> Wolf_: I get those from China for ~$175
[18:14:24] <Wolf_> should be like $10-15
[18:14:24] <SpeedEvil> I got mine for more like $10
[18:14:45] <CaptHindsight> yeah, was thinking an f-theta
[18:14:57] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[18:15:25] <CaptHindsight> beam expanders are about the same price
[18:16:59] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CO2-10600nm-10-6um-2-5x-Fixed-Magnification-Beam-Expander-f-Lase-/170842328858 this seller is good
[18:17:33] <SpeedEvil> yeah - this is a cheap lens meant for cheap CO2 laser cutters
[18:17:45] <CaptHindsight> their expedited is Fedex
[18:17:55] <SpeedEvil> You don't actually need a very good lens for much FLIR stuff
[18:20:53] <Wolf_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/152029765863 like
[18:24:53] <DaViruz> i want a zoom lens for thermal imaging, but they are crazy expensive
[18:25:13] <DaViruz> assuming you can find one at all
[18:26:07] <Wolf_> I played with one, but it was built in to a flir gimbal :D
[18:26:51] <DaViruz> i wouldn't mind one of those either
[18:30:39] <Wolf_> yeah… I only have a Flir e4… zoom would be neat
[18:31:34] <DaViruz> i have an E4 as well. though the zoom lens would be for a lepton module on UAV-stuff
[18:32:02] <DaViruz> though buying several lepton modules with different fixed optics would be a far cheaper alternative
[18:32:51] <SpeedEvil> The major problem with any degree of zoom is f number.
[18:32:56] <Wolf_> nice, I only have glanced at the lepton due to the resolution, only reason I would have to put a flir on one of my UAV would be search and rescue use, higher rez would be nice
[18:33:12] <SpeedEvil> Which implies large diameter lenses
[18:33:22] <SpeedEvil> large diameter lenses rapidly get to very, very expensive
[18:33:33] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Temmek-3-5um-16-ZIV-Infrared-Thermal-Camera-Imager-IR-F4-15-300-mm-20X-Zoom-Lens-/172368569572
[18:33:49] <SpeedEvil> Though the tiny sensor in the lepton does help
[18:36:17] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Military-MWIR-Cooled-thermal-FLIR-imager-IR-camera-zoom-lens-night-vision-/222321091500 $68K new
[18:36:27] <CaptHindsight> your discount price $4100
[18:36:32] <Wolf_> lol
[18:36:58] <CaptHindsight> I'd like to go to a Pentagon garage sale
[18:37:15] <Wolf_> get something like http://i.imgur.com/S5scRFL.jpg ?
[18:37:19] <LeelooMinai> CaptHindsight: Related: Today I learned: US military reported it has $125 billion waste, "misplaced" 7 trillion (sic.) dollars, while to stop world hunger on Earth for costs $25 billions per year.
[18:37:39] <CaptHindsight> yeah, 2 for $995
[18:39:25] <MacGalempsy> so much cash wasted
[18:41:43] <MacGalempsy> reminds me of my old expense account times e^-10
[18:46:38] <Tom_L> evening
[18:50:41] <MacGalempsy> hi
[18:51:01] <MacGalempsy> whats new Tom_L?
[18:51:42] <Tom_L> might work on updating my server this evening
[18:55:30] <MacGalempsy> its 3c here and should get down to -3c
[18:56:05] <BeachBumPete> Hey Tom_L
[18:56:18] <Tom_L> 36 f
[18:56:22] <Tom_L> hey pete
[18:56:47] <BeachBumPete> it was like 86 here today...
[18:56:54] <BeachBumPete> kinda humid too
[18:57:08] <BeachBumPete> but its raining now and we are SUPPOSED to be getting a bit of a cold snap
[18:58:44] <Tom_L> gonna get colder here too
[19:03:06] <MacGalempsy> i hate cold. i need a winter retreat in equatorial waters
[19:03:38] <SpeedEvil> http://www.lakeland.com/europe/our-products/gas-tight-clothing-type-1-2.html + integral heating system.
[19:03:51] <MacGalempsy> i made lvl65 spanish today =D
[19:03:54] <BeachBumPete> I hate cold too....which is why I moved to Florida. I will bitch and moan when it gets real hot but I still love it LOL
[19:04:24] <MacGalempsy> yeah. i did like the blazing heat in central CA
[19:05:18] <BeachBumPete> I lived in both Norcal and Socal for a few years
[19:05:33] <BeachBumPete> went to High school in Anaheim
[19:05:54] <MacGalempsy> cool
[19:06:05] <BeachBumPete> lived in Sacto when I was in the Coast Guard stationed on McClellan AFB
[19:06:17] <MacGalempsy> nice
[19:06:28] <BeachBumPete> I like California but it is just a crazy state I think...
[19:07:58] <MacGalempsy> yeah. it needs like 40 million less people
[19:08:19] <Tom_L> BeachBumPete, run any parts on the mill yet?
[19:08:21] <BeachBumPete> that would be a start...
[19:08:57] <BeachBumPete> Tom_L Honestly I have not but I just received orders for several custom rails and am awaiting my materials order to arrive.. Should be here by the weekend and then chips will fly
[19:09:32] <BeachBumPete> I am expecting a couple more from what the guys said but until the money is in the bank its all pie in the sky
[19:12:30] <BeachBumPete> I got some parts placed in the electronics cabinet on the CNC lathe but I am still up in the air on the overall layout..
[19:30:33] <kyle____> high school in anaheim, huh, BeachBumPete?
[19:31:04] <kyle____> some of my family went to orange high, sort of near there
[19:31:10] <kyle____> probably before your time though
[19:40:39] <zeeshan> looks like we're going with orange vises
[19:40:53] <zeeshan> got a 15% discount from them
[19:40:57] <zeeshan> for multiquantity
[19:46:56] <zeeshan> can't wait to see the productivity gains :D
[19:56:29] <SpeedEvil> Can't you just paint existing vices?
[19:56:30] <SpeedEvil> :)
[19:58:33] <zeeshan> hehe
[20:43:00] <dioz> fuck
[20:43:03] <dioz> i started a new job and i hate it
[20:43:13] <dioz> well not a "new" job. same work just different employer
[20:43:27] <dioz> new employer is good i imagine but the dude i'm stuck working with sucks
[20:43:33] <dioz> which makes the new job suck
[20:45:00] <dioz> i think it's weird when people say "they take pride" in their work
[20:45:16] <dioz> like when a framer pounds a nail into a board
[20:45:19] <dioz> and they take "pride" in it
[20:45:27] <dioz> does that mean the nail will magically hold better?
[20:45:55] <dioz> when you yank that nail out will it be extra difficult to remove due to the pride it was pounded with?
[20:46:28] <dioz> working with this tin banger and we're hanging duct
[20:46:36] <dioz> slip and drive
[20:46:55] <dioz> and he wants me to bend the drive using hand seamers to make a "perfect square"
[20:46:58] <dioz> he said "it looks better"
[20:47:15] <dioz> i said "no one is gonna see your drive once you seal the duct using mastic"
[20:47:25] <dioz> he proceeded to tell me i'm argumentative
[20:47:28] <dioz> and lack pride in my work
[20:47:53] <tiwake> *shrug* some things don't matter, and depends on how much the person is paying you to do it
[20:48:10] <dioz> he isn't paying me
[20:48:14] <dioz> the company is paying me
[20:48:16] <dioz> i'm working with him
[20:48:26] <dioz> he is being paid by the same company
[20:48:33] <Wolf_> sounds like someone who needs bosses foot up their ass
[20:48:39] <tiwake> that does not matter, what matters is the customer paying for your work
[20:48:52] <Wolf_> wasting time
[20:48:59] <tiwake> jep
[20:49:00] <dioz> you use high velocity duct sealer on ever transverse connec4tion
[20:49:12] <dioz> so bending the drive to look fancy is pointless
[20:49:17] <dioz> considering you just "paint" over it anyways
[20:49:59] <Wolf_> that would be like me making every weld fit up perfectly the same, on a dumpster...
[20:50:13] <dioz> hah
[20:50:23] <tiwake> I've had customers happy with an extremely fast rough out this hole/slot with a roughing endmill and it looks fugly etc... but they pay by the hour and left happy, so whatever
[20:51:08] <dioz> the way i see it is... obviously you don't want it to look like shit
[20:51:25] <dioz> but spending extra time to make it "look pretty" is a waste of time
[20:51:26] <dioz> it's duct
[20:51:28] <dioz> inside a wall
[20:51:32] <Wolf_> ^
[20:51:33] <dioz> no one is gonna see it
[20:51:42] <dioz> no one is gonna be like "omg you bent those drive fucking awesome"
[20:51:49] <Wolf_> he is actually costing the company $$$
[20:52:05] <tiwake> normally how nice I make something look depends on how much effort to get it 'in the rough' done
[20:52:37] <dioz> okay so i'm not crazy
[20:52:38] <tiwake> but yeah, context matters, like you said
[20:52:48] <dioz> here's another part that seems fucked up to me
[20:52:54] <dioz> they want us to wear gloves while fabbing sheet metal
[20:53:04] <dioz> when i went to trade school they told us NEVER to wear gloves working with rolling equipment
[20:53:12] <dioz> my uncle tells me never to wear gloves with rolling equipment
[20:53:18] <dioz> he lost his thumb wearing gloves and operating a mill
[20:53:25] <dioz> it cause the tip of his glove and ripped his thumb off
[20:53:31] <BeachBumPete> I think doing a craftsmans job counts even on things that are unseen but that must always be tempered with how much time it takes to do it and how much it adds to the cost
[20:53:36] <Wolf_> yup, anything that can eat gloves = no gloves
[20:54:12] <dioz> so i said "why do you tell me to wear gloves yet the provincially mandated learning institution tells me not to wear gloves?"
[20:54:17] <dioz> again i was told i'm argumentative
[20:54:21] <tiwake> BeachBumPete: if I were doing my own house, I'd take the time to make everything perfect... heh... but thats just me... most people don't want to spend the extra effort to make even the unseen stuff nice
[20:54:30] <tiwake> and for that reason, I work on my own cars
[20:55:09] <dioz> dude is the same age as me
[20:55:17] <dioz> and i think he's only ever been a sheet metal guy
[20:55:17] <zeeshan> Wolf_: remind me to not buy a dumpster from you!
[20:55:35] <Wolf_> zeeshan: really.. .last one I did was 1/2” out of square
[20:55:39] <zeeshan> hehe
[20:55:58] <zeeshan> BeachBumPete: i totally agree with you
[20:56:23] <zeeshan> when im doing design at work
[20:56:27] <Wolf_> matter of finding the balance of when and where you need to nit pick your work
[20:56:39] <zeeshan> theres so much thought process that some people would say "it was a waste of time to think that"
[20:56:44] <zeeshan> but thats the damn job!
[20:57:06] <tiwake> oh man these beans I made are so amazingly tasty
[20:57:07] <zeeshan> but i do agree with the fact that if you do not need to square the block
[20:57:12] <zeeshan> then why do it?
[20:57:18] <zeeshan> unless it barely takes you any time to do it
[20:57:20] <Wolf_> lol, yeah, design work is thinking 10 steps ahead :D
[20:58:54] <zeeshan> tbh, depending on the job
[20:59:05] <zeeshan> i'll spend the 10-15 min trying to make it look better
[20:59:23] <zeeshan> a lot of people care about looks especially if they're paying a lot of money
[20:59:25] <BeachBumPete> I am installing a kitchen at work today.. I have to hit a soffit above the cabinets without any crown just a flat ledger sort of piece. Unfortunately the soffit is nowhere near flat or level. It goes almost 3/4 inch up from the center making my job a lot more difficult...
[20:59:51] <dioz> i slope soffit away from the house
[20:59:54] <zeeshan> BeachBumPete: you back in the cabinet business?!?!
[20:59:54] <zeeshan> :D
[21:00:12] <dioz> oh you're talking about cabinet soffit
[21:00:15] * zeeshan googles soffit
[21:00:15] <BeachBumPete> I kinda wish that the guy who framed the soffit gave a little more shits about doing a good job LOL
[21:00:16] <dioz> i was talking exterior
[21:00:22] <Wolf_> BeachBumPete: wanna come work on my house, nothing in the whole building is flat nor level
[21:00:37] <zeeshan> whats the point of soffit
[21:00:39] <zeeshan> my hosue has it
[21:00:49] <dioz> zeeshan: to allow your roof to breath
[21:00:54] <zeeshan> so right behind it
[21:00:55] <zeeshan> is wood?
[21:00:59] <dioz> shouldn't be
[21:01:01] <dioz> maybe insulation stops
[21:01:04] <zeeshan> 2x4?
[21:01:04] <zeeshan> ah
[21:01:07] <BeachBumPete> zeeshan I do custom cabinet installs and trim work right now but I am looking for a CNC machine job..
[21:01:42] <BeachBumPete> no this is just a metal framed drywall place for them to run the wiring and plumbing above your head in a condo...
[21:01:49] <BeachBumPete> they call it a soffit
[21:01:58] <BeachBumPete> I am not sure what it is called exactly
[21:02:01] <zeeshan> pete i want to put cabinets in my laundry room
[21:02:07] <BeachBumPete> DO IT
[21:02:10] <Wolf_> I need to fix the front corner of my house still… 6” drop over 12’ span...
[21:02:11] <zeeshan> whats the cheapest way to do it
[21:02:14] <zeeshan> i want those white cabinets
[21:02:21] <zeeshan> everytime i look for stuff
[21:02:23] <zeeshan> the cabinets are very expensive
[21:02:28] <zeeshan> do you think it's something i can make from scratch?
[21:02:31] <zeeshan> if i had a cnc router
[21:02:33] <BeachBumPete> sure
[21:02:42] <Wolf_> ikea it :P
[21:02:43] <zeeshan> why does one cabinet cost like 500$?
[21:02:48] <zeeshan> i don't understand that
[21:02:53] <BeachBumPete> anyone can make a cabinet from scratch if you have a tablesaw and some tools
[21:03:08] <zeeshan> i really dont have much wood experience
[21:03:09] <BeachBumPete> don't even need CNC LOL
[21:03:10] <zeeshan> it scares me
[21:03:28] <zeeshan> what kind of wood would i make it out of?
[21:03:29] <BeachBumPete> that white shit is probably melamine tho....its garbage
[21:03:41] <BeachBumPete> plus its a bitch to work with
[21:03:51] <BeachBumPete> chips out if you look at it wrong
[21:03:52] <Wolf_> plastic wrapped particle board :P
[21:03:55] <BeachBumPete> yup
[21:04:01] <zeeshan> http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Whitdobe/Misc%20Stuff/LaundryHangerDetail.jpg
[21:04:07] <zeeshan> BeachBumPete: i'd be happen with something like this
[21:04:10] <BeachBumPete> it takes a special kind of blade to cut it without tearout
[21:04:36] <BeachBumPete> hell those are just home depot cabinets man
[21:04:40] <zeeshan> lol
[21:04:42] <zeeshan> really
[21:04:46] <BeachBumPete> looks like thermoform doors
[21:04:57] <BeachBumPete> they are cheap too
[21:05:06] <Wolf_> box store builders grade junk
[21:05:07] <zeeshan> hm
[21:05:15] <zeeshan> Wolf_: its better than having nothing!
[21:05:18] <zeeshan> i think it looks nice
[21:05:23] <Wolf_> very true
[21:05:26] <zeeshan> it'll give us aplace to store towels and shit
[21:05:29] <zeeshan> and laundry deteregent
[21:05:35] <zeeshan> and microfiber cloths
[21:05:46] <zeeshan> right now i have a ladder next to my sink
[21:05:53] <BeachBumPete> I just finished building a complete laundry room in a condo here all out of melamine..
[21:05:54] <zeeshan> and i stack the towels and clothes on it
[21:05:57] <zeeshan> talk about ghetto
[21:05:58] <zeeshan> :-)
[21:06:04] <Wolf_> I plan to do something similar, but I’m working with stacked washer/dryer
[21:06:06] <BeachBumPete> I HATE Melamine
[21:06:14] <zeeshan> see my question is this
[21:06:17] <zeeshan> my room is a certain size
[21:06:35] <zeeshan> isn't it going to be a pain to find cabinets that'll fit perfectly in that space?
[21:06:40] <BeachBumPete> I did make a big counter top that went above the front loaders that had a tilting back that covered up the plumbing and wires etc.
[21:06:53] <jymmm> Maelamine.. coated partical board. Laundry room... steamy humid goo place.
[21:07:04] <BeachBumPete> no you just buy what fits and use scribes at the sides
[21:07:18] <Wolf_> if your laundry is steamy, fix your dryer vent
[21:07:18] <BeachBumPete> jymmm yup
[21:07:37] <zeeshan> http://i475.photobucket.com/albums/rr116/downsymom/Lightenedupscribingphoto.jpg
[21:07:39] <zeeshan> like this pete?
[21:08:38] <BeachBumPete> yeah just a 3/4 strip or whatever fits
[21:08:50] <zeeshan> hmm
[21:08:51] <BeachBumPete> you cope it to fit the wall
[21:08:52] <zeeshan> maybe i can cad it up
[21:08:58] <BeachBumPete> LOL
[21:08:58] <zeeshan> and get a visual of what itll look like
[21:09:18] <BeachBumPete> just measure with a tape measure and look at their sizes online to see what fits.
[21:09:33] <BeachBumPete> if it is just a run of wall cabinets over the dryer and washer anyway
[21:10:14] <Wolf_> spray foam and caulk the gap :P
[21:11:22] <BeachBumPete> a little putty and paint will make a carpenter what he aint :)
[21:13:29] <zeeshan> lol
[21:13:48] <zeeshan> you're giving me encouragement to do it
[21:13:49] <Wolf_> …sad part is that I have seen it done
[21:14:07] <dioz> HAH
[21:14:09] <dioz> it says right on
[21:14:13] <dioz> fucking OHS website
[21:14:19] <dioz> not to wear gloves when working with rotating machinery
[21:14:57] <dioz> they said i was argumentative for saying that today
[21:15:00] <BeachBumPete> which is funny because I see people wearing gloves all the time running mills and lathes on youtube
[21:15:07] <dioz> cause their shop policy is that i'm supposed to wear gloves
[21:15:10] <dioz> and i'm like "nope"
[21:15:14] <zeeshan> i wear nitrile gloves when machining
[21:15:15] <dioz> and they said "we'll write you up"
[21:15:36] <zeeshan> dioz
[21:15:38] <zeeshan> you're in their house
[21:15:41] <zeeshan> you gotta follow their rules
[21:15:47] <dioz> nope
[21:15:50] <zeeshan> no one comes to your place and tells you how to run your house
[21:15:55] <zeeshan> then leave
[21:15:58] <dioz> this is federally regulated
[21:16:02] <zeeshan> safety is a pretty big thing in most places
[21:16:02] <BeachBumPete> yup if you are not the lead dog the view never changes LOL
[21:16:08] <zeeshan> and i've fired someone before at my last job
[21:16:13] <zeeshan> on the 3rd incident
[21:16:26] <zeeshan> if you kill yourself by not following the rules
[21:16:28] <dioz> you'd want someone to wear gloves when working with rotating machinery?
[21:16:33] <zeeshan> the company is still liable
[21:16:36] <dioz> i'd say you're dumb
[21:16:37] <dioz> if you do
[21:17:04] <Wolf_> seeing that they the company can/will get fined for making you wear gloves…
[21:17:50] <zeeshan> dioz: ofcourse not
[21:17:52] <zeeshan> i'm saying in general
[21:18:08] <dioz> if not working withi rotating machinery sure
[21:18:18] <dioz> but in this case it's a sheet metal fab shop
[21:18:24] <dioz> and they're saying we HAVE to wear gloves
[21:18:26] <dioz> with form rollers
[21:18:27] <zeeshan> i wear nitrile gloves around rotating machinery
[21:18:28] <zeeshan> all the time
[21:18:29] <dioz> and lock formers
[21:18:35] <dioz> and crimpers
[21:18:38] <zeeshan> but i also know where my hands are
[21:18:39] <dioz> etc. etc.
[21:18:41] <dioz> and i said "no"
[21:18:47] <dioz> and they said they'd write me up if i didn't
[21:18:58] <zeeshan> you have the right to refuse unsafe work
[21:19:06] <zeeshan> unfortunately that just ends up into termination
[21:19:13] <zeeshan> they'll find one way or another to get rid of you
[21:19:17] <roycroft> i see videos with folks wearing gloves around machinery all the time
[21:19:22] <roycroft> scares the bejebus out of me
[21:19:22] <Wolf_> I’m going to guess when you say gloves, they want leather work gloves to you wont get cut on the sheet metal ?
[21:19:23] <zeeshan> better start looking for a better employer, cause they sound awful.
[21:19:35] <dioz> Wolf_: yah
[21:19:51] <zeeshan> most people that i've seen
[21:19:54] <zeeshan> wear gloves when handling sheet metal
[21:19:59] <zeeshan> but they take them off but they're processing it
[21:20:16] <dioz> i've worked with sheet metal for two years and never worn gloves
[21:20:28] <zeeshan> i know personally if im using a bead roller
[21:20:32] <zeeshan> i'll be wear gloves
[21:20:34] <BeachBumPete> http://i.imgur.com/wOSXhBp.jpg Ya think you can make one of these? :)
[21:20:35] <roycroft> if your employer forces you to wear gloves in a situation where gloves are dangerous and not otherwise allowed, drop an anonymous tip to osha
[21:20:41] <roycroft> and get ready for a surprise inspection
[21:20:45] <dioz> roycroft:
[21:20:47] <dioz> @!@!!#$!@#$!@$
[21:20:48] <dioz> !!!!
[21:20:51] <roycroft> and the subsequent fining
[21:20:53] <dioz> e-mail being sent
[21:20:55] <zeeshan> BeachBumPete: need live tooling
[21:20:55] <zeeshan> :[
[21:21:12] <BeachBumPete> why?
[21:21:20] <roycroft> even nitrile gloves can be dangerous
[21:21:30] <roycroft> but they're not nearly as scary as leather gloves
[21:21:57] <roycroft> the other videos that scare the bejebus out of me are guys with long hair not tied back operating rotating machinery
[21:22:04] <roycroft> and people not wearing safety glasses
[21:22:22] <roycroft> folks operating loud machinery without hearing protection don't scare me
[21:22:27] <jymmm> roycroft: Yep, had nitrile glove catch on a drillbit, smacked my hand quickly
[21:22:29] <roycroft> but i know they're morons so i'm not interested in what they have to say
[21:22:39] <CaptHindsight> what?
[21:22:45] <BeachBumPete> LOL
[21:23:01] <Wolf_> people with no hearing protection won’t listen
[21:23:11] <roycroft> well, they can't listen :)
[21:23:16] <Wolf_> :D
[21:23:27] <jymmm> roycroft: The worse.... long sleeves because the shop is so freaking cold
[21:23:30] <roycroft> this isn't the 1870s any more
[21:23:36] <roycroft> i wear long sleeves sometimes
[21:23:38] <CaptHindsight> how are you supposed to hear the person screaming next to you?
[21:23:47] <roycroft> i tape the cuffs tightly when i do
[21:23:49] <jymmm> CaptHindsight: WHAT?
[21:23:53] <BeachBumPete> I'm sure I will have issues with that at some point. I hear loud shit every day with what I do and constantly putting on hearing protection is just not practical
[21:24:04] <CaptHindsight> HELP, my gloves are stuck in th
[21:24:30] <jymmm> roycroft: Not worth it to me, I'll freeze. Learned that a long time ago.
[21:24:43] <roycroft> it depends on what you're doing
[21:24:49] <roycroft> i agree that loose clothing can be dangerous
[21:25:06] <jymmm> roycroft: I never ever wear jewlery or a tie when working on anything that moves
[21:25:08] <roycroft> if i'm working at a lathe i'll roll my sleeves up
[21:25:10] <roycroft> no
[21:25:15] <CaptHindsight> I was just cutting sheet metal with a rotary tool for about an hour
[21:25:16] <roycroft> no jewelry on the hands
[21:25:18] <roycroft> or wrists
[21:25:19] <roycroft> ever
[21:25:25] <roycroft> not even a wristwatch
[21:25:41] <CaptHindsight> after and hour or two of grinding I have to stop or wear ear plugs
[21:25:51] <BeachBumPete> I only wear my wedding ring... almost had it caught a time or two
[21:25:52] <Wolf_> good ear pro helps http://a.co/9INT7eW
[21:25:53] <jymmm> roycroft: And when you reach into a CRT, alway always palm up, fist closed =)
[21:26:00] <roycroft> and the only way i would wear a tie when working on something that moves is if the something that moves is a classy lady :)
[21:26:25] <roycroft> you really should not wear your wedding ring when working, beachbumpete
[21:26:26] <CaptHindsight> mittens are safer since they come off easier
[21:26:34] <roycroft> your wife would understand
[21:26:40] <roycroft> leaving it at home is not a good idea though
[21:26:49] <gregcnc> my ears are hosed, not to the point I can't hear, but enough that I think being an idiot with car stereo when i was youger, was well idiotic
[21:26:51] <roycroft> that could give the wrong impression
[21:26:52] <jymmm> Wolf_: Shit, even cheap moffs from the dollar store work well
[21:26:55] <CaptHindsight> the wife or the ring?
[21:26:56] <jymmm> muffs
[21:27:08] <gregcnc> my wife always asks where the ring is
[21:27:09] <BeachBumPete> damn I am tired.... gotta fix that soffit tomorrow... SHEEIT
[21:27:28] <jymmm> CaptHindsight: yes.
[21:27:32] <Wolf_> jymmm: you can still have a conversation without yelling with the ones I linked though
[21:27:32] <roycroft> "it's safely in a locker, where it can't cause my finger to get ripped off and the ring chewed up by a piece of machinery"
[21:27:38] <BeachBumPete> meh I never take it off
[21:27:50] <gregcnc> now i wear hearing protection virtually any time anything makes noise
[21:27:58] <CaptHindsight> ouch getting below 0 here next week
[21:28:01] <CaptHindsight> 0F
[21:28:01] <BeachBumPete> unless I get some kinda burning chemical underneath it then I take it off real quick like ;)
[21:28:06] <roycroft> noise-cancelling headphones with an ipod input are great
[21:28:17] <roycroft> but expensive for good ones
[21:28:29] <roycroft> i still haven't cost justified them
[21:28:33] <BeachBumPete> I had some of those
[21:28:39] <jymmm> Wolf_: Eh, maybe but more than likely I don't want to hear them anyway =)
[21:28:39] <BeachBumPete> but they broke
[21:28:40] <roycroft> so i just wear regular hearing protection and turn the stereo up really loud
[21:28:43] <Wolf_> ones I linked have aux in, $40… I also use them for shooting
[21:29:04] <BeachBumPete> Gn8
[21:29:07] <roycroft> i should drop the $$ for a good set though
[21:29:27] <jymmm> Wolf_: You plug them into the barrel? ;)
[21:29:47] <Wolf_> for the aux in, I have a bluetooth car adapter thing on min
[21:29:50] <Wolf_> mine*
[21:29:54] <gregcnc> https://madison.craigslist.org/tls/5908252337.html
[21:29:56] <gregcnc> dang
[21:30:01] <CaptHindsight> I was milling one day and it started to sound funny so I shut down the spindle, it ended up being a passing tornado
[21:30:19] <tiwake> heh
[21:30:35] <roycroft> the price is right on that
[21:30:54] <roycroft> the motors are worth the $50
[21:30:57] <CaptHindsight> bingo
[21:31:16] <roycroft> the stand is also worth $50
[21:31:40] <roycroft> and the chuck is probably worth $50
[21:31:47] <roycroft> so you would triple your money if you tossed the rest of it
[21:31:52] <CaptHindsight> https://rockford.craigslist.org/tls/5907597827.html still available
[21:32:00] <CaptHindsight> they called me today
[21:32:00] <gregcnc> you could flip it on Ebay tomorrow for 500
[21:32:05] <gregcnc> finally?
[21:32:20] <CaptHindsight> I got a hold of them this past Friday
[21:32:33] <CaptHindsight> but I'm too busy to go plus moving
[21:32:46] <gregcnc> stacking skids?
[21:32:54] <CaptHindsight> I don't want to pay twice to truck it
[21:33:17] <roycroft> rent a storage unit in rockford for a month
[21:33:23] <roycroft> and get them to deliver it there
[21:33:54] <CaptHindsight> I might pay them to hold it for 2 weeks
[21:33:59] <roycroft> or that
[21:34:03] <gregcnc> i found a parts machine I'm tempted to buy, but it's in OH and slightly too big to handle easily myself
[21:34:58] <CaptHindsight> I think the Ikegai is 12k lbs
[21:35:41] <CaptHindsight> my forklift maxes at 16K
[21:36:16] <gregcnc> can they load it at their end?
[21:36:29] <CaptHindsight> I think so
[21:36:40] <CaptHindsight> they had it in storage for several years
[21:36:47] <CaptHindsight> it belongs to a buddy
[21:38:41] <CaptHindsight> https://milwaukee.craigslist.org/off/5845024900.html check out this space
[21:38:48] <CaptHindsight> with cranes
[21:39:08] <CaptHindsight> 2000Amp 240V 3p
[21:39:59] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: you live in the rustbelt?
[21:40:10] <CaptHindsight> there's a bigger shop in woodstock with 10+ ton cranes
[21:40:20] <CaptHindsight> tiwake: outside Chicago
[21:40:24] <tiwake> no wonder why machines are so cheap
[21:40:32] <gregcnc> so you found a place?
[21:40:33] <tiwake> nobody can afford to run them in the area
[21:40:46] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: yeah
[21:41:02] <CaptHindsight> had no choice
[21:41:06] <gregcnc> Cool
[21:43:14] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: if you need extra space http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/19851055/14200-Washington-St-Woodstock-IL/?LinkCode=31817
[21:43:43] <CaptHindsight> not enough clean area for me
[21:46:23] <CaptHindsight> tiwake: yeah they are still pulling them out of old plants
[21:47:49] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: I just need floor space to put such machines on... oh gosh I'd love to have a CNC machine again
[21:47:55] <tiwake> do all the magical things with it
[21:48:19] <tiwake> update the controllers with linuxCNC
[21:48:35] <tiwake> spiff up the hardware, maybe replace a ballscrew where needed
[21:49:02] <CaptHindsight> I come across decent machines less often
[21:49:17] <CaptHindsight> they usually want too much
[21:49:55] <tiwake> cause they need to pay off their bills and cant do it with the machine running in that area
[21:50:02] <CaptHindsight> I'm really surprised that the IKEGAI is still there
[21:50:23] <CaptHindsight> they aren't expensive to run
[21:50:41] <gregcnc> there is a good amount of manufacturing here
[21:50:52] <CaptHindsight> tiwake: why do you thinks they are expensive to run? labor?
[21:50:55] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: they are if the local laws are taken into consideration :P
[21:51:20] <tiwake> its the same reason so many are leaving califorina and oregon
[21:51:50] <CaptHindsight> there are shops around here with dozens of cam operated screw machines
[21:51:52] <tiwake> texas? now has a ton of other industries other than oil
[21:52:04] <norias> CaptHindsight: that's awesome
[21:52:20] <norias> i had a chance to buy some cam operated screw machines
[21:52:24] <norias> for like $300 each
[21:52:31] <norias> wish I had $300, then
[21:52:50] <CaptHindsight> yeah, usually never at the same time, money and a deal
[21:53:12] <norias> true, true
[21:54:07] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/291854804482 this is more what I'm looking for
[21:55:33] <tiwake> oh man
[21:55:37] <tiwake> machine porn
[21:56:05] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/291441819739 another deal
[21:56:39] <norias> oh, two turrets?
[21:56:41] <norias> huh
[21:57:30] <gregcnc> the tiny windows of the Mazak make it look look ginormous , but 14kLb?
[21:58:10] <gregcnc> still will turn some big brake drums and rotors
[21:58:47] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NR-HYUNDAI-HIT-8G-TURNING-CENTER-CNC-LATHE/192041038585 in zeeshan's backyard
[21:59:33] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: I should get this for my shiny new cellphone... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA4P04MC5593
[22:00:01] <tiwake> read/write speed is really fast
[22:00:08] <tiwake> for microSD cards
[22:00:27] <CaptHindsight> tiwake: let me know how the phone works out
[22:00:41] <tiwake> well, its pretty good so far
[22:01:20] <tiwake> I mean I don't have a data plan with my Tmobile... I give them $100/year and they give me 1000 minutes to use over a year
[22:01:32] <tiwake> because I'm bloody cheap
[22:03:51] <jymmm> tiwake: its a dman goood plan too =)
[22:04:11] <jymmm> tiwake: free wifi everywhere =)
[22:04:18] <tiwake> pretty much
[22:04:52] <tiwake> when I get around to building a proper server, I'll buy myself a SIP phone number and use that most of the time
[22:06:27] <jymmm> I use my VoIP line on my smartphone
[22:06:34] <jymmm> it's okey
[22:07:28] <tiwake> plug it into my car for audio for driving around
[22:07:34] <tiwake> music stuffs
[22:09:40] <zeeshan> holy fuck
[22:09:42] <zeeshan> that's right near me
[22:09:47] <zeeshan> i work in burlington
[22:09:47] <zeeshan> ;d
[22:11:23] <zeeshan> if anyone in here ends up buying it
[22:11:24] <zeeshan> let me know
[22:11:27] * zeeshan can help out
[22:11:29] <zeeshan> gnite!
[22:14:46] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: any idea what will happen if I stick a 64gig microSD card in my cellphone when the company that made it says it only supports 32gigs?
[22:15:34] <LeelooMinai> It may see only 32G or not work at all (?)
[22:16:29] <Tom_L> it will spontaniously combust
[22:16:34] <CaptHindsight> from nothing to being able to only access 32GB
[22:16:54] <LeelooMinai> Right, I was going to say, that nothing disasterous will happen:)
[22:17:08] <t12> https://img.memecdn.com/You-just-divided-by-zero-didnt-you_o_91593.jpg
[22:17:11] <t12> this will happen
[22:17:54] <tiwake> I'm curious if its a licensing thing
[22:18:16] <t12> there are differences in the protocols
[22:18:21] <t12> that limit max size access
[22:18:48] <tiwake> it was a big deal when jolla was developing the tablet and made a microSD slot and what they could say it supported with its stretch goals
[22:19:14] <tiwake> https://together.jolla.com/question/68538/official-announcement-supporting-larger-microsd-cards-in-the-jolla-tablet-your-input-is-needed/
[22:19:29] <t12> i think its a mix of controller hardware + software support
[22:19:42] <tiwake> t12: see link
[22:19:52] <t12> and how much of the sd controller implmentation is in the cpu silicon vs software
[22:21:39] <tiwake> to say it supports more, like SDXC, means it needs to support the exFAT file system
[22:22:10] <Tom_L> everyone wants a piece of the pie
[22:22:21] <tiwake> which means they need to pay like $750,000 to microsoft for it
[22:22:24] <Tom_L> you pay by the slice
[22:22:30] <tiwake> or wait
[22:22:40] <tiwake> 150,000? something like that
[22:22:47] <Tom_L> it's alot
[22:22:55] <tiwake> not 750k, but more than 100k
[22:22:57] <Tom_L> the original one was around 3k
[22:23:23] <tiwake> so I'm wondering if that is the case with this cellphone
[22:23:38] <tiwake> because I know jolla still hasent done it
[22:23:56] <tiwake> then again, intex might do something like that
[22:24:02] <tiwake> buuuut... donno
[22:24:35] <t12> well, see if you can address 64gb on it
[22:25:41] <tiwake> I have a sneaking suspicion a larger capacity microSD card will work
[22:26:57] <t12> its possible that to market it as sdxc compatable they have to do exfat
[22:27:19] <t12> but they can still have it work and not include exfat, and not have it marketed like that
[22:27:20] <tiwake> right
[22:27:33] <tiwake> oh, yeah...
[22:27:47] <tiwake> Iunno
[22:28:04] <tiwake> I don't know in intex does stuff like that or not
[22:28:49] <tiwake> word things weirdly, or say it because jolla said it with a lot of other exceptions so they took the easy way to describe it... etc.
[22:28:59] <t12> its like that with bluetooth
[22:29:06] <t12> you can buy a bluetooth radio and use it for stuff out of spec
[22:29:17] <t12> but if you're going to put the bluetooth logo on your products, you have to use it right
[22:30:01] <tiwake> oh
[22:30:05] <tiwake> but thats not a money thing
[22:30:11] <tiwake> well, might be
[22:30:12] <t12> its a way to enforce compatability
[22:30:22] <t12> otherwise people will just slather the bt logo on everything
[22:30:27] <t12> and it becomes meaningless
[22:30:35] <tiwake> USB is like that, but you don't need to pay any money to say you conform to standards
[22:30:36] <t12> with sdxc, say everyones like yeah i support sdxc!
[22:30:42] <t12> but only with ext3 and now you cant use it on windows or osx
[22:30:53] <t12> then the sdxc logo becomes meaningless in the consumer market
[22:31:05] <t12> (since the products wont work like many people expect them to)
[22:31:15] <t12> you need to pay alot for a USB id
[22:31:43] <tiwake> USB id?
[22:31:56] <t12> er
[22:31:59] <t12> http://www.usb.org/developers/vendor/
[22:32:16] <t12> thats not a lot of money i guess
[22:33:21] <tiwake> no, thats for forum access as a vendor
[22:33:24] <tiwake> or something
[22:33:33] <t12> thats if you want to put a usb logo on your box
[22:33:38] <t12> or if you want your own usb device id
[22:34:08] <tiwake> it does not look like it though, based on that
[22:34:21] <tiwake> thats just talking about the forum, not any product you might sell
[22:34:59] <tiwake> oh nvm
[22:35:10] <tiwake> wait
[22:35:28] <tiwake> its just the logo use it seems
[22:36:48] <tiwake> enh, anyway
[22:36:54] <t12> i interpert it as if you want on this list: http://www.linux-usb.org/usb.ids
[23:17:00] <Simonious_> I need help thinking through a problem.. I don't think it's real serious, but I'm not sure what the best path is.
[23:17:09] <Simonious_> A friend is trying to build a big horizontal warping mill
[23:17:30] <Simonious_> http://static.wixstatic.com/media/7af330_0fdcb149302742218ccb3b54fc1092f9.jpg_srz_315_235_85_22_0.50_1.20_0.00_jpg_srz a little like this beast
[23:18:00] <Simonious_> And she picked up a cheap trailer axle and some pillowblock bearings to mount it in, problem is the pillow blocks are 1" ID and the axle ends are 1.05" OD
[23:18:03] * Simonious_ chuckles
[23:18:17] <Simonious_> Haven't spotted any pillow block bearings with the 1.05" ID
[23:18:25] <Simonious_> and I'm not quite sure what the happy path is here
[23:18:41] <Simonious_> did find some 30mm ID pillow blocks, but that is .13" oversized!
[23:18:43] <Simonious_> ugh
[23:20:58] <norias> hmm
[23:21:26] <norias> my though would be press fit an adapter
[23:21:58] <Simonious_> explain?
[23:22:02] <norias> on a larger set of pillow blocks
[23:22:23] <norias> do an OD/ID
[23:22:25] <norias> a tube
[23:22:37] <norias> OD -> 30mm ish
[23:22:44] <Wolf_> 1.05 id/1.25 od or something
[23:22:45] <Simonious_> yeah, could do that
[23:22:53] <norias> ID -> 1.05
[23:23:03] <norias> probably the easiest thing
[23:23:34] <Wolf_> or turn the axle ends down
[23:24:21] <norias> yeah, but probably harder to find a lathe
[23:24:26] <norias> that fits that
[23:24:41] <Wolf_> probably lol
[23:24:48] <norias> although that's the better answer
[23:25:06] <Simonious_> Hmm, we've got a big lathe at work, but that does seem challenging to say the least.
[23:25:18] <Simonious_> assuming the lathe is big enough the center of the axle is actually square stock
[23:25:28] <Simonious_> which isn't strictly a deal breaker here I guess.
[23:25:42] <Wolf_> 4 jaw time
[23:26:32] <Simonious_> eyup
[23:26:55] <norias> i'd probably just do the adapter
[23:26:59] <norias> it's fast
[23:27:11] <Simonious_> I'm not sure how to make such a thing
[23:27:30] <Simonious_> but.. my lathe skills are weak
[23:27:46] <Simonious_> probably a good time to improve them :P
[23:28:07] <Wolf_> make round rod chunk smaller and lighter
[23:28:22] * Simonious_ laughs
[23:29:09] <Simonious_> could even put a little draft on it to make life easier :)
[23:30:09] <norias> it's just a tube, man
[23:30:24] <Simonious_> that's fair, but I've done no metal lathe work
[23:30:25] <Simonious_> only wood
[23:30:29] <norias> if an OD/ID is challenging
[23:30:39] <Simonious_> I've done metal work on the bridgeport, but that's a different thing than a lathe
[23:30:40] <norias> you certainly don't want to chuck those axle's up
[23:31:04] <Simonious_> It's easy to measure on stationary parts :)
[23:31:27] <Wolf_> I like lathe work
[23:31:42] <Simonious_> I always enjoyed it with wood, not that I'm an expert there either
[23:31:49] <Simonious_> but that was pure art and no precision.
[23:32:39] <Wolf_> if you can manage to do it in one setup in the lathe, its pretty easy
[23:33:02] * Simonious_ nods
[23:33:07] <norias> the only thing a little tough
[23:33:18] <norias> is that press fits are tighter tolerance work
[23:33:27] <norias> one way to cheat
[23:33:39] <norias> might be to find ground bar in the OD you need
[23:33:43] <norias> and just do the bore
[23:34:12] <tiwake> easier to make the bore, then grind/turn the bar to fit bore
[23:34:34] <Wolf_> or light cut the OD till the bearing fits
[23:35:10] <Simonious_> no reasonable way to enlarge the 1" pillow blocks to the 1.05" dia?
[23:35:21] <tiwake> depending on things, a press fit is 0.0005" interference
[23:36:23] <tiwake> Simonious_: 0.05" is too much to knurl to get a press fit out of
[23:36:33] <Simonious_> http://www.bearingson.com/PrdImg/pillow_blocks_bearings/cast_iron_pillow_block_ucp200_series/1317_CAT.jpg this is the pillow block
[23:37:27] <Wolf_> setscrews, not a press fit
[23:37:57] <Simonious_> Wolf_: I see that now that you mention it, how does that change my equation here?
[23:37:59] <Wolf_> also, might be hardened
[23:38:19] <Simonious_> wouldn't surprise me
[23:43:11] <Simonious_> Hmm, if I could find them a 1 1/16" ID that'd only be .0125 off
[23:45:36] <Simonious_> http://www.astbearings.com/product.html?product=UCP206-17
[23:49:32] <Simonious_> that doesn't seem terrible
[23:50:44] <Simonious_> thats a delta of .0125