#linuxcnc | Logs for 2016-12-05

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[00:07:37] <archivist> Tom_L,
[00:07:55] <archivist> my own version of a php bot
[00:08:04] <archivist> bookmark
[00:08:04] <the_wench> yet another log is at http://emclog.archivist.info/
[00:08:41] <archivist> db
[00:08:42] <the_wench> http://www.wench.archivist.info/index.php?chan=%23linuxcnc
[00:17:23] <pink_vampire> what is the cost for brazing to small parts?
[00:17:48] <pink_vampire> two*
[00:28:15] <XXCoder> yo pink_vampire
[00:31:38] <pink_vampire> hi
[00:31:47] <XXCoder> finally home heh
[00:34:12] <pink_vampire> me too
[02:31:52] <Deejay> moin
[02:31:53] <Jymmm> hi
[02:35:35] <XXCoder> heys
[03:09:28] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Here ya go you gluegun freak... https://chip.hackster.io/davecutting2000/build-a-c-h-i-p-3d-printer-server-for-9-b99287?ref=channel&ref_id=5276_trending___&offset=28
[03:10:20] <XXCoder> that is awesome
[03:10:29] <XXCoder> though I dont intend to print remotely
[03:10:53] <Jymmm> you're still a freak
[03:11:02] <XXCoder> lol
[04:39:55] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3ZGlpDa-0g all done :(
[04:40:00] <XXCoder> awesome
[04:46:34] <Deejay> nice
[04:47:15] <XXCoder> hopefully he will make another, different one
[05:26:03] <jthornton> morning
[05:26:22] <XXCoder> yo
[05:29:46] <enleth> what's the correct resistance value for a servo braking resistor - resulting in a braking current just below the peak current rating of the drive or the motor (whichever is lower, I suppose) or rather significantly below that? Assume the resistor power rating is not a concern
[05:40:18] <archivist> power rating is very much a concern else the smoke escapes
[05:43:48] <enleth> "not a concern" == "I can buy a bigger one, duh"
[05:44:13] <archivist> your VFD should have a calculation for the resistance
[05:44:34] <enleth> it's a H-bridge servo drive, not a VFD
[05:44:54] <enleth> doesn't provide a dedicated braking resistor connection by itself
[05:45:39] <archivist> because they can reverse bias the motor to brake
[05:46:49] <archivist> I must admit speeding up a printer by hard reversing the servo :)
[05:49:35] <Tom_L> morning
[05:51:20] <__rob> pink_vampire: https://snag.gy/p0u4rI.jpg thats the kind of finish I get from the chop saw..
[05:52:03] <__rob> not perfect.. but good enough
[05:52:26] <Tom_L> how many tooth blade
[05:52:58] <__rob> 80
[05:55:53] <Tom_L> plenty good for a rough block
[05:56:16] <__rob> https://snag.gy/QOrfYp.jpg
[05:56:19] <__rob> pretty chunky
[05:56:23] <__rob> yea, seems fine
[05:56:57] <Tom_L> i've got a few of those
[05:57:00] <Tom_L> tri cut
[05:57:18] <Tom_L> every 3rd one is offset the other way with the middle one neutral
[05:58:57] <Tom_L> rig a spray mist on the block and it might come out even better
[06:00:25] <Tom_L> like a ceramic wet saw
[06:06:47] <Tom_L> 33 F
[06:06:54] <Tom_L> winter is on the way this week
[06:34:07] <jthornton> you getting snow Tom_L
[07:23:35] <jdh> 20s here this week
[09:54:22] <gregcnc> Machinist's toothbrush? https://www.instagram.com/p/BNoSz3hhgEM/
[09:56:53] <pcw_home> done with a (very) high speed spindle?
[09:59:52] <gregcnc> no idea, but it's likely
[10:01:33] <pcw_home> wonder if the bristles were all cut tapered at first
[10:03:29] <pcw_home> ( as it seems impossible to even touch the tops of the bristles when close to done )
[10:03:57] <gregcnc> one method would be to rough, fill with wax type filler, even epoxy, and finish but small z increments could do it in one shot
[10:04:01] <gregcnc> i couldn't find a video
[10:04:27] <pcw_home> Yeah a video would be nice
[10:07:45] <gregcnc> https://youtu.be/mRhzGAYwIUs
[10:18:29] <gregcnc> https://youtu.be/lkFdrka5Q2Y?t=1m3s showing off mold details at 480p is that a realtime error in the corner?
[10:26:37] <pcw_home> too fuzzy to read
[10:45:03] <MacGalempsy> morning to some and evening to the euros
[10:45:11] <Deejay> evening :)
[10:45:16] <Deejay> a good one
[10:45:44] <MacGalempsy> hey Dejay, how goesbit?
[10:45:47] <MacGalempsy> goes it
[10:45:48] <Deejay> and a cold one ;)
[10:45:58] <Deejay> had -7 °C this night
[10:46:02] <MacGalempsy> got the furnace cranked up?
[10:46:06] <MacGalempsy> ewwww
[10:46:33] <Deejay> yo, furnace at maximum ;)
[10:46:35] <Deejay> hehe
[10:46:59] <MacGalempsy> thursday its forcasted to be -12c here
[10:47:04] <Deejay> whee :)
[10:47:12] <Deejay> with snow?
[10:47:24] <MacGalempsy> the wife wont let me get an electric blanket
[10:48:38] <MacGalempsy> no snow probably just ice
[10:49:44] <MacGalempsy> there was a thick fog warning earlier
[10:52:12] <MacGalempsy> anything warmer going on Deejay?
[10:52:59] <Deejay> hmm, built a 'bird feeder' from wood recent days (but without cnc)
[10:53:52] <Deejay> paint needs to dry, then i will put it outside
[10:54:46] <MacGalempsy> a snow bird house?
[10:55:10] <Deejay> unfortunately we have no snow here ;)
[10:55:11] <CaptHindsight> where do you think frozen chicken comes from?
[10:55:53] <Deejay> hehe
[10:57:34] <tjtr33> anyone use NativeCAM with linuxcnc 2.7.8?
[10:58:36] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: hello
[10:58:49] <tjtr33> I get "Program exceeds machine" min and max for every axis BUT 'run anyways' runs fine ( sim axis )
[10:58:54] <tjtr33> hi Capt
[11:02:03] <tjtr33> also no bounding box seen. also no workpiece seen
[11:02:30] <MacGalempsy> did u set g54?
[11:02:58] <MacGalempsy> l0
[11:03:48] <tjtr33> no, i think that is default, yes its default, seen on mdi tab
[11:04:27] <MacGalempsy> tjtr33: did u use an edge finder or touchprobe?
[11:04:36] <tjtr33> this is sim
[11:04:45] <tjtr33> running supplied demo
[11:04:49] <MacGalempsy> oh
[11:05:17] <tjtr33> ini files is +/-40inch in x&y and -8,+5 in Z
[11:05:40] <MacGalempsy> how big is the workpiece?
[11:06:41] <MacGalempsy> say a workpiece dimension is 40 and g54 is set at +1 then you will get that error
[11:07:15] <tjtr33> x4 y2 z1 running 3D-chips now ,no errors after the 'exceeds' message
[11:07:44] <tjtr33> G54 xyz=000
[11:08:59] <tjtr33> 3d-chips is 4.16"x 4.42y 1.59Z
[11:09:53] <MacGalempsy> glad to see its working
[11:09:55] <tjtr33> i dont see a bounding box of machine travels, i dont see workpiece 3D outline as NativeCAM should show
[11:10:26] <MacGalempsy> did u set point zero on the cam?
[11:11:31] <MacGalempsy> change view settings?
[11:12:16] <tjtr33> i left the 0 reference where linuxcnc put it. it is sim cutting now referred to that point.
[11:12:27] <tjtr33> its just finishing tux's head
[11:13:18] <MacGalempsy> today my plan is to finish this copper fan shroud and fire up the furnace
[11:13:32] <tjtr33> i thought that 'run anyways' would show me the offending line ( that exceeded limits)
[11:13:48] <tjtr33> but the files exec fine on screen all the way thru
[11:14:12] <tjtr33> yep 3dchips done
[11:16:32] <tjtr33> good luck on the shroud. thanks
[11:16:47] <MacGalempsy> maybe its a retract exceeding the limits?
[12:23:52] <andypugh> automata_: Sorry, I retired for the night and forgot to log out. Thanks for the comments.
[12:31:37] <IchGucksLive> hi from a icy germany
[12:31:42] <IchGucksLive> e
[12:33:05] <Moronics1urf> hello, im from icy sweden. =)
[12:33:08] <Deejay> hi livegucker
[12:33:23] * Deejay wants snow
[12:33:30] <Moronics1urf> no you don't
[12:33:33] <Moronics1urf> snow is horrible
[12:34:46] <andypugh> Snow is excellent in its place. And its place is under my skis.
[12:35:04] <andypugh> Under my motorcycle it is a _lot_ less welcome.
[12:35:16] <Moronics1urf> yeah.. if it could stay there in the mountains..
[12:35:32] <Moronics1urf> im just tired of battling 30 ton of bullshit every season
[12:35:50] <andypugh> Maybe live somewhere more practical?
[12:36:02] <Moronics1urf> Like bahamas. :D
[12:36:02] <Deejay> hmm, we have approx. 2 or 3 days a year with snow. so thats okay :)
[12:36:20] <Moronics1urf> Deejay, yeah we have basicly 3months or so
[12:36:28] <IchGucksLive> Deejay: did you see the sun today
[12:36:33] <Moronics1urf> usually from december to begining of march
[12:36:35] <IchGucksLive> here we are in depth fog
[12:36:36] <andypugh> I have never had to shift snow in the UK. Not once.
[12:36:46] <Deejay> IchGucksLive, of course. was sunny all day. no clouds, no fog
[12:36:51] <Deejay> really nice winter day
[12:36:55] <Moronics1urf> andypugh; but you have ice instead i imagine. =)
[12:37:10] <andypugh> Sometimes. Not that often, though.
[12:37:21] <IchGucksLive> Here the New as promised English Sheetcam Video https://youtu.be/JHC_mrrjA60
[12:37:53] <Deejay> i think in the UK, they just put some hot tea over the ice/snow
[12:38:19] <Moronics1urf> hehe well i have stayed clear of UK since i was in scotland.. that left marks on my soul.
[12:38:21] <andypugh> We use a fair bit of salt/grit on the roads
[12:38:40] <Deejay> i hate salt on the roads
[12:38:41] <Moronics1urf> funny enough in northern parts of sweden they use sugar instead. =)
[12:38:44] <andypugh> Scotland gets a lot more snow, and is more regularly cold, aye.
[12:43:45] <sync> andypugh: I *love* snow under my fe450
[12:45:03] <IchGucksLive> pink_vampire: ?
[12:47:12] <IchGucksLive> folks is dot axisrc the same as dot linuxcncrc
[12:47:24] <IchGucksLive> has thes changes from 2.5
[12:50:57] <andypugh> Wow! My Mac just crashed. That’s not common.
[12:51:09] <JT-Shop> ouch
[12:51:14] <kb8wmc> IchGucksLive: Hello sir, long time no see
[12:51:26] <andypugh> The mouse was mov the pointer, but nothing else was working.
[12:52:18] <JT-Shop> my LinuxMint 13 Cinnamon pc crashes everytime the screensaver locks it up lol
[12:52:20] <andypugh> Actually, that’s not true. I heard a “bonk” from the IRC client as a message with my name came in, so that was still working, I just couldn’t switch to it
[12:52:58] <sync> heh
[12:53:05] <sync> I just said that I love snow under my fe450
[12:53:21] <sync> just drop 2 gears and let her rip around the curves
[12:53:48] <andypugh> I tried my GasGas EC200 on knobblies a few winters ago on a cold and icy day. I crashed. Hard.
[12:53:59] <kb8wmc> JT-Shop: What is your opinion on the selection of plasma table filters and driers...Is the system that Hypertherm offers a good one?
[12:54:08] <andypugh> turns out knobblies are even worse than normal tyres on cold ice.
[12:55:36] <IchGucksLive> kb8wmc: hi yes i did lost my amateur radio licence
[12:55:42] <sync> yeah on ice they are worthless
[12:55:44] <sync> but on snow <3
[12:56:12] <Wolf_> snow=fun ice=suck
[12:56:13] <kb8wmc> IchGucksLive: are you going to be able to renew it?
[12:56:34] <IchGucksLive> i dont want it
[12:56:48] <kb8wmc> IchGucksLive: very good...
[12:56:53] <IchGucksLive> it is now so expensive and not useing them
[12:57:16] <IchGucksLive> i had to repai 400Euros for the past 3 years
[12:57:22] <sync> I think I'm going to get something like a ec300e as well
[12:57:23] <kb8wmc> wow
[12:57:31] <sync> it's not really expensive imho IchGucksLive
[12:58:25] <IchGucksLive> i think on not using it it is
[12:58:56] <IchGucksLive> the EM and all the envirerment costs the frequencys and the relay position
[13:02:04] <Moronics1urf> andypugh, you gonna need to put skis on your bike like we do here on the military ones. =)
[13:02:36] <JT-Shop> kb8wmc: iirc I used the Hypertherm filter, I have a large Ingersol Rand drier
[13:03:25] <andypugh> Moronics1urf: I have a set of old tyres earmarked for fitting ice studs to at some pioint
[13:03:31] <IchGucksLive> Hypertherm is the best
[13:03:42] <IchGucksLive> no problem on all mesa included
[13:03:45] <Moronics1urf> andypugh: break out that hand drill and get working. :D
[13:04:03] <andypugh> But, for the last 3 years there hasn’t been enough cold weather to make it worth the bother.
[13:04:14] <sync> it is like 80€ a year IchGucksLive
[13:04:19] <Moronics1urf> no icy lakes to rip up?
[13:04:19] <sync> that's not really expensive
[13:04:31] <IchGucksLive> but on the 7i92 the communication errors disapear as well from 5i25
[13:05:32] <kb8wmc> JT-Shop: Thanks JT...I will pass along to my brother....
[13:05:42] <Moronics1urf> JT-Shop: Making a large tube filled with desiccant works very well for handling that last bit of moisture (and only thing i use for my hypertherm)
[13:06:10] <IchGucksLive> sync: do you supply relay
[13:07:00] <sync> no, the costs for relay stations are higher, but the actual running costs are much higher than the official fees
[13:08:00] <andypugh> Moronics1urf: I doubt that there is a single lake in England that freezes hard enough to walk or ride on reliably. There may be in Scotland.
[13:08:09] <IchGucksLive> sync: agree on that
[13:08:18] <kb8wmc> Moronics1urf: approximately what size of large tube do you use?
[13:08:56] <Moronics1urf> kb8wmc: i used a 70mm tube thats about 1m (so what is that 3.5 feet and 3 inch not super sure)
[13:09:20] <kb8wmc> Moronics1urf: roger that, thanks for info
[13:09:20] <Moronics1urf> kb8wmc: just make sure you have a trap for the desiccant beads in there as well.
[13:09:34] <kb8wmc> ah...oka
[13:09:44] <sync> andypugh: just gotta be really quick :P
[13:10:23] <Moronics1urf> andypugh: when i was younger it was kind of a sport running across the lake on a motorcross bike with studs that always had to thin ice. Just needed to keep the throttle down.
[13:11:16] <andypugh> Well, you don’t technically need ice for that
[13:11:44] <Moronics1urf> andypugh: you are thinking of hydroplaning.. that is even riskier on freezing water. :D
[13:11:51] <andypugh> Oh, by the way, New Clickspring today
[13:12:40] <Moronics1urf> the final installment as well, is it not.
[13:13:59] <andypugh> Of the clock, yes
[13:23:36] <Moronics1urf> anyone has good suggestion for a jaw replacement, for 2 old Takeda HVS-150 vises.. the original steel ones is terrible marred up with some random programming errors..
[13:23:57] <Moronics1urf> not sure if i should go with aluminium ones and like talons or something.
[13:27:03] <jackc> greetings humans - anyone know offhand the correct incantations to build the 'dummy'/simulation linuxcnc on a non-rt kernel? some time ago i had built from source with machine=dummy or something similar, but the only docs i can find now on the subject suggest i should add to sources.list and install a binary .deb
[13:27:28] <jackc> (and the versions dont go as far as ubuntu 16.04, which is what im running)
[13:27:41] <Moronics1urf> debian/configure simulation or if it was sim.. not entirely sure.
[13:29:45] <jackc> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html suggests ubuntu packages were built at least through 12.04
[13:30:41] <Moronics1urf> yeah i had to get some of those packages and manually install em, and the libgtkprintui-2.2-dev i just dpkg -i and added --ignore-depends=<dependence>
[13:30:51] <Moronics1urf> and forced it into the system so it will show up in the configure
[13:30:53] <Moronics1urf> and compile
[13:31:08] <jackc> ah ok thank you
[13:31:10] <Moronics1urf> the end resulting debian package will need a similar treatment when installed as well
[13:31:17] <Moronics1urf> but it works anyway
[13:31:25] <JT-Shop-2> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNC_Pure_Simulator
[13:31:32] <Moronics1urf> the one i talked about their is for the ladder print and is waaaay outdated.
[13:31:41] <Moronics1urf> and python-support is one of the other ones like that
[13:31:52] <jackc> ahh thanks JT-Shop-2 also
[13:32:04] <Moronics1urf> its reference in a diff. package and the support can be installed, then force install the old python-support package anyway
[13:32:33] <jackc> blurg
[13:32:44] <Moronics1urf> but as the outdated wiki states. install an old version and it just works. =)
[13:33:16] <Moronics1urf> yeah it took me two evenings to get it running a preempt kernel in last 2.7.8 under linuxmint 18
[13:33:19] <Moronics1urf> but it runs. :D
[13:33:48] <automata_> hi andypugh
[13:35:07] <andypugh> Hi
[13:35:56] <jackc> Moronics1urf: im totes happy with an older version of Axis, are you saying you just used an older .deb and it installed cleanly on a newer system?
[13:36:30] <automata_> Nice work with the g71 remap.
[13:36:54] <Moronics1urf> jackc: no i installed source on a newer system, under a modern distribution with all other updates..
[13:36:54] <automata_> i am trying it out..
[13:37:19] <IchGucksLive> Gn8
[13:37:31] <jackc> Moronics1urf: ah ok
[13:37:32] <Moronics1urf> jackc: you could install an older ubuntu or debian and install a current debian of linuxcnc right off the bat tho. if you are fine with an older distribution (im not)
[13:37:40] <automata_> I tried with G72 and found that in G7 diameter mode you need to switch the axes where the commanded value is halved
[13:38:05] <jackc> Moronics1urf: yeah, im just tryna get axis to run on my desktop after a reinstall so i dont have to fuck with code standing in front of the mill in the basement ;)
[13:39:05] <automata_> also, it does not work right till the last move in the profile has a simillar value to the X coordinate of the start point before g71 was called
[13:39:11] <Moronics1urf> jackc: hehe ok i can get that one. I just fiddling overall.
[13:39:42] <andypugh> automata_: Hmm, OK. I confess I hadn’t tried that, I always use G8 mode for subroutines because otherwise arcs are too hard to work out.
[13:40:03] <andypugh> (But I use G7 the rest of the time)
[13:40:47] <andypugh> It’s anyones guess what would happen with G7 / G8 in other places. Did you see my attempt to define _every_ plane?
[13:40:49] <Moronics1urf> andypugh: i would love to see more of that lathe of yours in action.
[13:41:18] <andypugh> Moronics1urf: You might get your wish, I am setting up for a demo of a crank-grinding HAL component
[13:41:22] <automata_> I liked the clever way you defined every plane .. took 5 min to figure out what you were doing.
[13:41:52] <Moronics1urf> andypugh: and that would just make my day.. fiddling with doing camshafts manually on my lathe.. with a .. contraption. =)
[13:42:07] <andypugh> automata_: I mean this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1C_vm5pExMxhw5hccaCCjmV5YAAPno4YuDGFd-bGzNKI/edit#gid=0
[13:42:16] <automata_> I used the flip variable to decide which axes to halve
[13:43:45] <automata_> I would love to see arcs and lookahead in the UVW And ABC Axes
[13:44:10] <andypugh> I am not sure what an XA arc even means
[13:45:34] <automata_> I make a machine with 9 axes defined... used for jewellery milling.. I could definitely use (come with with a use for) XA arcs
[13:45:56] <andypugh> “distance from end point 1 (100 degrees) not ezual to disstance to end point 2 (24 mm)"
[13:46:28] <automata_> I could use XB Arc in that machine.
[13:47:04] <andypugh> But is it an XB arc or an XY arc projected onto a cylindrical surface? Not the same thing.
[13:47:44] <andypugh> Though in terms of raw numbers divorced frm units it is probably easy enough to make happen
[13:47:57] <automata_> I use the B axis as a linear axis which moves in linear units based on the fixed center of rotation
[13:48:19] <automata_> So there is a seperate X Axis Y axis and a B Axis.
[13:48:30] <automata_> B rotates around Y
[13:49:14] <automata_> So I sometimes need an AB Arc and a XB Arc and YA Arc.
[13:49:26] <automata_> A and B are also used as linear axes
[13:50:29] <automata_> I have actually hacked that by using kinematics which have a hal pin used to switch the axes mode...
[13:50:29] <andypugh> I can certainly see applications for canned-cycles in mixed-unit planes.
[13:50:33] <CaptHindsight> automata_: whats the work envelope? All servo?
[13:50:38] <automata_> All servo
[13:51:35] <automata_> So by changing the value of a HAL pin a different kinematics gets applied. The kinematics switches the axis to joints mapping
[13:52:16] <automata_> This was the easiest hack that could get Arcs working in the variuos planes I needed
[13:54:00] <automata_> consider a XYZAB machine with a second spindle mounted on the W axis
[13:57:20] <CaptHindsight> figures
[13:57:52] <CaptHindsight> automata_: how small are you parts?
[13:58:00] <CaptHindsight> you/your
[13:59:10] <automata_> about 50 mm dia
[14:00:01] <andypugh> My tiny milling at the weekend came out well. (A 10point capital W for use marking glass scultures)
[14:01:32] <andypugh> I am wondering now about trying the same thing in tool-steel for part marking.
[14:02:06] <automata_> andypugh: in G71 cycle you have used J and L/1000 as the offset distances from the profile. Any reason to use L/1000?
[14:02:29] <andypugh> Yes, other parts of LinuxCNC enforce integer-L :-)
[14:02:30] <automata_> is L only integer value?
[14:02:59] <andypugh> That will be changed when G71 moves out of remap and into convert_cycles
[14:03:56] <automata_> woudl we need to do that? why could the remap not be the permanent solution?
[14:04:03] <andypugh> Also, I have un-pushed work that makes the plunge and retract moves (mainly) follow the profile, and that detects gouging (sometimes, needs work)
[14:04:30] <automata_> if you share, I could try it out...
[14:05:21] <automata_> what is the logic you are using for gouging detection?
[14:05:45] <andypugh> Because remap needs modifications to every config directory, and the remap code has to replicate the behaviour of the built-in code for lines and arcs, with optional tool radius comp, and has to guess some things that the base code just knows.
[14:06:41] <andypugh> It turns out to be be easy once the plunge and out-feed follow the profile, you just compare the plunge and outfeed angles to the tool frontangle and backangle
[14:07:38] <andypugh> automata_: I don’t think I will get back to G71 tonight. But I should push the new stuff some time this week.
[14:09:20] <automata_> I see: you plan to incorporate tool radius comp in the logic too
[14:10:57] <automata_> any plans to tackle fanuc G73 (pattern repeating cycle)?
[14:11:35] <automata_> I was wondering how to handle the different U and W (J and L) offsets for the two axes for that to get a new profile
[14:12:02] <bpuk> It's been talked about - there is a conflict with the mill cycle G73. Simple answer is to do G70.3. Correct answer likely to be more complex
[14:14:31] <automata_> i think g70.3 is good... OR there could be a switch based on MILL/LATHE in the ini configuration that could decide
[14:14:41] <andypugh> automata_: Tool radius comp on a lathe is not the same as on a mill. Specifically it almost always takes off _more_ material than a conventional move (exception being button-tips)
[14:15:39] <cradek> because the controlled point is usually outside of the actual tool?
[14:15:51] <andypugh> So LinuxCNC passes a compensated path to G71 (presumably with magically-modified arcs) and then G71 adds on two extra offsets to each cutting pass
[14:16:04] <andypugh> cradek: That’s my thinking, yes
[14:16:24] <cradek> I also think that's usually true
[14:17:08] <andypugh> The G70 profile is a bit harder, as that needs to make arc moves that may be offset from the “original” arc by different amounts in X and Z
[14:18:20] <andypugh> I assume that cutter comp is actually done at the point that arcs become mS by mS positions? As the paths are no longer circular?
[14:18:20] <automata_> that is what I was thinking.. how to do non-monotonic profiles with different offsets in X and Z
[14:19:16] <andypugh> bpuk: Do you have answers for this? It looks like a hard puzzle if U and W can be different?
[14:19:52] <bpuk> not yet. I've looked at the cutter comp code a bit, and had some ideas on it. but no solid answers yet
[14:20:07] <automata_> with different X and Z roughing offsets, what happens to circular arcs in the profile?
[14:21:14] <bpuk> the offset code I've been tinkering with moves the arcs towards/away the centrepoint depending on inside/outside/g2/g3
[14:21:58] <Moronics1urf> is there any good starter tutorials on writing hal components ?
[14:22:02] <automata_> any arc that is non-monotonic has a chance of the offset overlapping the original arc (If we still use arc to represent the offsets)
[14:22:52] <Moronics1urf> and another thing ive seen some simulator that can bind into linuxcnc? or was completely mistaken?
[14:24:25] <bpuk> automata_: Early testing on it looks promising, but I haven't been completely evil to the code yet - I know that it doesn't add/remove arcs correctly for all cases. Trying to concentrate on the o-word logic
[14:26:07] <andypugh> neat: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/03/160330085735.htm
[14:26:29] <kb8wmc> Moronics1urf: how did you design your trap on drier?
[14:27:08] <DaViruz> i hope it doesn't need to be painted to hold up to weather.
[14:28:31] <Moronics1urf> kb8wmc, a piece of smaller pipe that runs the length with a piece of stainless mesh in the bottom.
[14:29:38] <kb8wmc> Moronics1urf: I think I can envision how that might go together...do you have any pictures or drawings?
[14:29:51] <andypugh> DaViruz: Unpainted wood holds up for centuries unpainted if it is the right wood.
[14:30:10] <Moronics1urf> kb8wmc: nah i contraptionered it in the heat of the moment when alot of swearing was involved..
[14:30:12] <andypugh> DaViruz: And that stuff is infused with polymer.
[14:30:13] <DaViruz> at least it does while it's part of a tree :)
[14:30:33] <DaViruz> i wonder what advantages it holds over just the polymer
[14:30:47] <kb8wmc> Moronics1urf: LOL okay, thanks...
[14:31:04] <sync> huh, I wonder why he thinks that stuff is good for PV
[14:31:39] <andypugh> DaViruz: It gets you mentioned on sciencedaily and many other web sites
[14:32:20] <bpuk> I've found Ekki and Iroko tend to hold up fairly well to wet weather
[14:32:24] <andypugh> sync: Yes, it isn’t like sand is much more expensive than wood
[14:32:59] <sync> well, front windows for pv modules are highly engineered
[14:33:11] <andypugh> bpuk: unpainted oak door, window, gutters, downpipes: http://www.bodgesoc.org/Slaithwaite2/Front.JPG
[14:33:36] <bpuk> Yup, oak is another good one
[14:33:40] <Moronics1urf> sync, andypugh: thats made in sweden.. and wood is something we got shitloads of.. i would say they got a heap of cash for their research dept to do that..
[14:34:53] <sync> probably
[14:36:13] <Moronics1urf> Weird question maybe but with all this broken deps and the need to run older distributions for linuxcnc.. Would there eve be time for a refactoring??
[14:36:30] <Moronics1urf> or is it just to much work.
[14:36:44] <Moronics1urf> *not plunged deep into the source yet*
[14:47:15] <andypugh> broken deps are due to availability of realtime-patched kernels mainly. It forces us onto older distributions.
[14:47:31] <andypugh> Well, that and some stuff being GTK2
[14:48:24] <andypugh> And there seems to be a constant cycle of refactoring. But there is a lot of code. And nobody understands all of it. (and I suspect there is some that nobody understands)
[14:57:25] <Moronics1urf> yeah the major dep problems i see is GTK2 stuff and Python - the realtime kernel is a smaller issue it was not that hard to compile a new preempt kernel myself after pcw told me howto.
[14:58:54] <Moronics1urf> what ive noticed when eyeballing the code that is made in a really dated style that makes it difficult to maintain im guessing. And seems to be alot of coders in it. Thinking that it could prob. be broken down into bits and refactored as several "independent" blocks instead of a mish mash of cross over spaghetti. =)
[14:59:13] <Moronics1urf> but it would take me prob a year to get thru it all.. its a epic ton of code in this project.
[15:06:56] <andypugh> I think you might be underestimiating how long it would take to get through it.
[15:07:32] <andypugh> And I am forced to agree that a lot of it seems to be C++ written by FORTRAN programmers :-)
[15:07:54] <Moronics1urf> haha yeah it has some peculiar and old patterns.
[15:08:05] <Moronics1urf> and design paradigm that i havent seen since.. well the late 90s.
[15:08:29] <andypugh> A lot of the code was written a long time ago. The _programming_languages_ have changed in the interim.
[15:08:40] <Moronics1urf> yeah i noticed that as well. =)
[15:08:52] <andypugh> Some of the code was written in the late 90s.
[15:08:52] <Moronics1urf> The mix of languages makes it quite confusing
[15:09:03] <cradek> a lot of our troubles come from dependencies on changing external libraries. when the gtk folks throw out their API and make a new one, we have to rewrite our GUIs or keep using old libaries - both cause suffering
[15:09:07] <sync> at least fewer than libreoffice
[15:09:21] <cradek> the parts of linuxcnc written in the 90s don't ever cause these problems
[15:09:38] <andypugh> I don’t mean the language mix, I mean that (for example) C++ has changed during the life of this project.
[15:09:56] <Moronics1urf> hehe well if one would seperate the UI completely talking with an internal API instead wouldnt it be easier to cycle through GUI's
[15:10:11] <andypugh> Indeed, if everything was done from scratch in C we would have no dependency problems :-)
[15:10:15] <Moronics1urf> its the gui part ive looked into first. and just the choice of python made med giggle a bit.
[15:10:19] <cradek> but we have that
[15:10:37] <cradek> and we do have GUIs come and go over time, and it's fine
[15:11:04] <Moronics1urf> so basicly you could run linuxcnc without a UI and interact with it throug console?
[15:11:12] <cradek> yes we have that too
[15:11:24] <Moronics1urf> righty then.. never found that
[15:11:27] <cradek> for instance some of the test suite does it
[15:11:29] <andypugh> I do it a lot, when testing.
[15:11:59] <Moronics1urf> so why.. and this is maybe stupid.. arent the "package" delivered as a "runtime" and a "gui" part instead
[15:12:03] <andypugh> Heck, I am doing it now, testing a HAL component and comparing outputs for set inputs against a CAD model.
[15:12:12] <Moronics1urf> amking it a bit.. uhm clearer and opening it up for other gui developers easier
[15:12:37] <cradek> our users generally want both
[15:12:39] <andypugh> Because most users are machinists and are easily confused?
[15:12:42] <cradek> I mean they want guis
[15:12:55] <cradek> and you can write your own gui against the linuxcnc-dev package
[15:13:07] <Moronics1urf> didnt even find a linuxcnc-dev package. ;D
[15:13:17] <Moronics1urf> or even a good way of getting into the ui parts.
[15:13:23] <andypugh> sudo apt-get install linuxcnc-dev
[15:13:28] <Moronics1urf> ended up trying to scrap and modify axis
[15:13:30] <cradek> maybe you should ask questions about what you want to do
[15:13:50] <Moronics1urf> nah im more interested in how it works. =)
[15:13:58] <Moronics1urf> not trying to do something particular
[15:14:01] <Moronics1urf> just screwing around with it.
[15:14:50] <andypugh> Modifyig Axis is fun if you like Tcl
[15:15:01] <Moronics1urf> no it was not fun.. it was painful :D
[15:15:18] <cradek> (that's the joke)
[15:15:49] <Moronics1urf> both python and tcl is kinda horrible languages.. do prefer C/C++ or even javascript before those 2.
[15:16:17] <andypugh> I am growing rather fond of Python
[15:16:22] <Moronics1urf> so.. question; how would i strip linuxcnc of its gui parts.. ?
[15:16:29] <Moronics1urf> so i can just run the "engine" so to speak
[15:16:34] <Moronics1urf> and talk to it directly instead?
[15:17:01] <andypugh> Depends what parts you want, but the halrun command is a good start
[15:17:06] <Moronics1urf> well python is an aquired taste i think once you get over that tabbed non bracketed syntax horror :D
[15:17:20] <cradek> you wouldn't start by stripping stuff, you'd start by installing linuxcnc and then not running the GUIs. look at how the test suite does it, for instance.
[15:17:57] <Moronics1urf> oh i have linuxcnc installed and so on.. just havent figure out how to kickstart into "blank slate" mode. =)
[15:18:08] <Moronics1urf> it always seem to popup some dialog of some kind
[15:18:46] <andypugh> As a very simple exercise, take a config, delete the DISPLAY= from the INI file, and the when it has started up, “halcmd -kf”
[15:18:48] <Moronics1urf> andypugh: would halrun allow me to run gcode and basicly hand code a machine that way?
[15:19:24] <Moronics1urf> so you do like linuxcnc & halcmd -kf ?
[15:19:33] <andypugh> No, because Halrun only operates in the HAL layer. To load and run a file you need linuxcncrsh
[15:19:48] <Moronics1urf> ah right.
[15:19:59] <andypugh> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/man/man1/linuxcncrsh.1.html
[15:20:27] <andypugh> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/man/man1/halcmd.1.html
[15:20:50] <andypugh> In fact, maybe rather a lot of other things here: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/
[15:21:21] <Moronics1urf> that doc thingy is remade i see. =)
[15:21:31] <Moronics1urf> not been in there for a while it was a horrow show not a little while back
[15:21:59] <Moronics1urf> that command interface seems promising tho
[15:23:22] <Moronics1urf> my machine that i actully use runs an old Siemens 810M system.. so quite used to punching in stuff manually.. and i like that. =)
[15:26:08] <Moronics1urf> the hal syntax.. that is tcl right?
[15:26:14] <Moronics1urf> components and such
[15:26:42] <MacGalempsy> well the fan shroud has been fitted, and is now painted. hopefully that means I can get down to the hardware store and pick up 2 hose clamps then be on to melting stuff
[15:27:09] <Moronics1urf> melting stuff.. as in furnace? =)
[15:40:29] <Moronics1urf> andypugh: nice, like that linuxcncrsh thingy. could not set it to manual mode for some reason but everything else in the sim seemed to work.
[15:45:42] <MacGalempsy> it is really hot furnace, hot enough to melt a chocolate bar
[15:46:38] <MacGalempsy> el infierno esta mucho mucho MUCHO calitente
[15:46:42] <Moronics1urf> andypugh: This little interface would be great for running like a android or ios client as remote. =)
[15:55:38] <MacGalempsy> andypugh: any progress on the sand printer?
[15:55:42] <andypugh> Moronics1urf: You might like Machinekit
[15:56:16] <andypugh> MacGalempsy: I haven’t even really thought about it for weeks
[15:57:00] <Moronics1urf> andypugh: how does machinekit really differ from linuxcnc?
[15:57:09] <MacGalempsy> are you making holiday gifts this year?
[15:57:32] <andypugh> They like running the realtime on a separate machine from the GUI
[15:58:12] <Moronics1urf> andypugh: well they are starting a "commandline" client instead of axis basicly or something similar im guessing
[15:58:40] <MacGalempsy> im trying to come up with a few ideas. my uncle gave me a big thing of copper, so am thinking about making a stamping die
[15:58:57] <Moronics1urf> andypugh: i would love to be able to control my plasma table from a handheld device just need to make the communication twoway not like this when you need to poll data
[16:00:54] <andypugh> andypugh: No, I think they use 0mq and protobuf
[16:01:10] <andypugh> But I have seen a GUI on an android phone for it.
[16:01:11] <Moronics1urf> oh zeromq is what i was thinking of using.
[16:01:19] <Moronics1urf> not protobuff tho
[16:01:38] <Moronics1urf> zeromq and a rest service was my buddy talking about.
[16:02:08] <Moronics1urf> but machinekit is basicly linuxcnc 2.7.8 with a "custom" display then im guessing
[16:06:47] <Moronics1urf> andypugh: i always assumed machinekit was geared towards the 3D printer crowd essentially.. But it seems skimming through the wiki it just adds a middleware layer and opens up the runtime for different platforms and the ability to add functionality easier to it. Am i wrong.
[16:07:15] <andypugh> I don’t know. I stopped following it
[16:07:26] <bpuk> it forked in 2014. I'm fairly certain there are more differences than you suspect. I never followed it
[16:09:35] <Moronics1urf> Yeah i suspect there is more as well. But they seem to move away from alot of the dependency issues that linuxcnc current has. But question is if they merge the "core" changes of linuxcnc into machinekit and just work on the middlware layer (replacing NML for example) or if they are just ignoring the strides linuxcnc has taken in its core engine.
[16:09:37] <JT-Shop-2> seems cinnamon thought screen saver should be called Brightness and Lock... no wonder I could not find it lol
[16:10:48] <JT-Shop-2> some good questions for the machinekit forum or whatever they have...
[16:11:02] <XXCoder> heh just install zscreensaver
[16:11:06] <XXCoder> *x
[16:11:26] <Moronics1urf> JT-Shop-2: they had a google group.. it seems akward. :D
[16:12:48] <MacGalempsy> JT-Shop-2: adding computers to the company, huh?
[16:15:21] <Deejay> gn8
[16:17:45] <JT-Shop-2> hey MacGalempsy ran some temp lan to the new shop....
[16:18:07] <JT-Shop-2> Moronics1urf: why don't you start an irc channel for them
[16:18:22] * JT-Shop-2 goes back to hanging itch
[16:18:27] <Moronics1urf> JT-Shop-2: cuz im not that invested i just got pointed in that direction. =)
[16:20:09] <Moronics1urf> If not some of you people figured it out yet. I'm a systems developer that have taken interest in linuxcnc out of curiosity. I do high frequency trading and financial tech systems online for a living. And have been doing that for the past 20 years.. The machinist thing is a hobby that i took up to clear my head.. that got me into programming once more.. ( i tend to loop ).
[16:25:08] <andypugh> So, 0mq is right up your street?
[16:25:15] <Moronics1urf> That it is.
[16:25:18] <Moronics1urf> i use it alot
[16:25:42] <andypugh> But have you worked on a big open-source project at all?
[16:25:52] <Moronics1urf> we have some FPGA implementations of it even for use when we do distributed computing of "prophecis" of what to buy and sell
[16:26:15] <Moronics1urf> andypugh: no i have only worked on large propriertary projects for banks and investment firms
[16:26:33] <andypugh> The dynamics of a volunteer project are very different to a team of developers paid to do what they are told.
[16:26:46] <Moronics1urf> yeah thats why im not gonna get invovled
[16:26:53] <Moronics1urf> just pick stuff apart and make stuff for myself. =)
[16:27:16] <Moronics1urf> i have a very different view on programming that most others due to my background
[16:27:38] <Moronics1urf> we have been doing realtime computing for the past 15 years or so in my sector
[16:27:40] <andypugh> Yeah, well, if you could stop telling the devs that their stuff sucks while not actually offering to fix it, that would be nice
[16:27:42] <Moronics1urf> but for different reasons
[16:28:02] <Moronics1urf> i havent said it sucked i just asked why some decisions were made as they are.
[16:28:33] <MacGalempsy> well this is exciting
[16:28:45] <MacGalempsy> anyone else play battlefield 1943 on xbox?
[16:28:46] <andypugh> Many were not made. And many things were done one way rather than another because the chap who fancied doing it wanted to do it that way.
[16:30:00] <Moronics1urf> yeah thats kinda obvious isnt it. if there is some prestige in invested in it so that people would take badly to questions.. then well i wonder how they get up in the morning..
[16:30:12] <Moronics1urf> programming is all about questions isnt it.
[16:31:32] <Jymmm> Moronics1urf: what do you mean?
[16:33:20] <MacGalempsy> isnt programming about answering questions?
[16:33:24] <Moronics1urf> Jymm: Well andypugh saids im criticing the current code of linuxcnc.. and all i did was asking some leading questions.. If that is taken harshly, thats up to each owns prestige.. nothing else. Code is never something static, and one of the big things a programmer does.. is questioning itself on a daily basis.. why each decision were made that way and if one should let it stay that way.
[16:33:41] <Moronics1urf> yeah, the problem with that every solution creates new questions.
[16:33:54] <Moronics1urf> only thing holding programmers back is prestige..
[16:34:12] <Moronics1urf> they stop questioning their own decisions and stick to em like if its religion.
[16:34:17] <Moronics1urf> and thus preventing evolution.
[16:35:11] <Moronics1urf> I deal with this daily with our junior teams. And it takes a couple of years to get em around to actually be willing to throw stuff out and start over. They kinda get attached and in love with their own work.. or ego.. creation..
[16:35:12] <Jymmm> Moronics1urf: ---> Moronics1urf: programming is all about questions isnt it. Jymmm: Moronics1urf: what do you mean? <grin>
[16:35:38] <Moronics1urf> sorry i dont read sarcasm or irony over IRC
[16:35:54] <Moronics1urf> especially not in my third language.
[16:35:57] * Jymmm reprograms Moronics1urf some more
[16:36:06] <MacGalempsy> 1000010111001110
[16:36:50] <Moronicsmurf> that would result in couple of junk signs. ;)
[16:37:04] <Moronicsmurf> 01101001 01110010 01101111 01101110 01111001
[16:37:05] <Jymmm> Moronicsmurf: examples?
[16:37:14] <Moronicsmurf> of what?
[16:37:17] <Moronicsmurf> prestige?
[16:37:34] <Jymmm> junk signs
[16:37:47] <Moronicsmurf> ��
[17:38:38] * JT-Shop-2 notices it takes at least two strikes before you know your slap stapler is out of ammo
[17:39:28] <malcom2073> Heh, true
[17:58:06] <MacGalempsy> alright. the furnace is up and running
[18:02:03] <JT-Shop> nice
[18:02:07] <JT-Shop> casting?
[18:05:21] <MacGalempsy> hopefully
[18:05:49] <JT-Shop> alum or more?
[18:05:58] <MacGalempsy> the compressed gas manifold I made was making the compressor run too long for the initial curing, so a fan manifold had to be made
[18:06:18] <MacGalempsy> I think after the kiln has been fired to max temp, I can go back to the compressed gas setup
[18:06:40] <MacGalempsy> the compressor is just too little to be running for 12hrs
[18:10:48] <JT-Shop> one of my customers told me their customer is cutting a PO for a small machine I quoted... yea paying work
[18:12:13] <JT-Shop> on another note I have about 2/3's of the walls with 8" insulation now
[18:16:49] <MacGalempsy> thats awesome. what kind of machine are you going to be putting together?
[18:18:18] <JT-Shop> a little desktop inspection machine for Husqvarna pole saw chain cover
[18:19:39] <JT-Shop> I was coding a kludge for an assembly machine they have to fix a bug and the plant manager wants me to quote reprogramming the machine!
[18:20:12] <JT-Shop> I might have to pay taxes next year if I get some work lol
[18:22:55] <MacGalempsy> im hoping the price of WTI will go up so I can get a job again
[18:23:23] <JT-Shop> WTI?
[18:24:08] <MacGalempsy> West Texas Intermediate
[18:24:15] <JT-Shop> ah
[18:24:39] <JT-Shop> I wasted 150 gallons of propane with a leak on my 300 gallon tank
[18:25:15] * JT-Shop wanders inside to cook
[18:25:17] <MacGalempsy> damn
[19:46:44] -!- logger[psha]_ was kicked from #linuxcnc by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. [Banned: Excessive join/quit. contact a channel admin when you fix it.]
[20:08:32] <MacGalempsy> its going well. I am at about cone 1
[20:08:59] <MacGalempsy> i guess that means its time to get a crucible on its way!
[20:28:41] <SpeedEvil> :)
[20:48:10] <MacGalempsy> Alright a 3L crucible is on the way!
[20:48:50] <MacGalempsy> 8.1kg of Aluminum
[20:59:47] <zeeshan> are you going to be casting aluminum?
[20:59:49] <zeeshan> its really enjoyable
[20:59:49] <zeeshan> :D
[21:04:22] <MacGalempsy> yes!
[21:04:44] <malcom2073> MacGalempsy: How much does 3 liters of aluminum weigh? :)
[21:04:57] <malcom2073> Oh 8.1kg
[21:05:01] <MacGalempsy> let me check again
[21:05:22] <malcom2073> Nothing quite like dropping 10lb of aluminum on the floor at your feet.... molten
[21:05:36] <malcom2073> erm, 20lb
[21:06:17] <MacGalempsy> it will be done outside
[21:06:27] <MacGalempsy> no flipflops
[21:06:32] <malcom2073> Heh
[21:06:38] <malcom2073> The problem isn't flow, it's splatter when you drop it :-P
[21:07:26] <MacGalempsy> time to desgn some locking tobgs
[21:07:30] <MacGalempsy> tongs
[21:07:41] <malcom2073> Two man lift tongs are awesome
[21:08:17] <MacGalempsy> my buddy is supposed to be making a lid lifting stand
[21:08:57] <MacGalempsy> it would be cool to have it lift the crucible
[21:09:15] <malcom2073> I wanna get into casting someday, figured I'd design a stand to help yeah
[21:09:22] <Wolf_> cnc home foundry IMO :P
[21:10:04] <MacGalempsy> yeah! pid controller on the gas and fan
[21:10:13] <malcom2073> Wolf_: +1
[21:10:26] <malcom2073> Lets be lazy. Press a button to bring it up, press a button to pour
[21:10:30] <Wolf_> motor drive lift and pour
[21:10:45] <malcom2073> I don't CNC To make cool stuff, I CNC to reduce the amount of work I gotta do
[21:10:57] <Wolf_> ^ that lol
[21:13:00] <MacGalempsy> lol
[21:13:26] <MacGalempsy> some day ill have a button and it makes a minion do the work
[21:14:06] <MacGalempsy> malcom2073: you guys picking up and drill rigs yet?
[21:14:24] <MacGalempsy> and = any new
[21:14:32] <malcom2073> Eh, not really, just slow and steady atm
[21:14:37] <malcom2073> i'm only doing that job like 2 hours a week right now
[21:14:45] <malcom2073> Got a new job at a different robotics place, been taking all my time
[21:16:38] <MacGalempsy> cool. i bet when oil hits $60 we'll be back at it again
[21:17:08] <malcom2073> Yeah, I'm not gonna get into it though
[21:17:26] <malcom2073> This robotics place is a careear not just a job, so I'm gonna try to see it through
[21:18:47] <MacGalempsy> i see. i guess since i put 12 years of education and 10 years working it, i'll go back
[21:20:29] <malcom2073> Hah yeah
[21:20:38] <malcom2073> It'll be good for the next 4-8 years
[21:21:38] <MacGalempsy> i hope my 2500 shares that went from $60 to $7 goes up
[21:21:58] <malcom2073> Hah yeah
[21:28:54] <MacGalempsy> btw the Victoria's secret fashion show is on
[22:00:13] <CaptHindsight> just got another email saying that my bank account is locked and click here to unlock it
[22:00:43] <CaptHindsight> and it's in a country and bank that I don't have an account in
[22:00:54] <CaptHindsight> sounds like free money :)
[22:11:31] <MacGalempsy> nice! did you click it?
[22:11:37] <skunkworks> quote of the day,.
[22:11:39] <skunkworks> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mach1mach2cnc/conversations/messages/151969
[22:11:55] <MacGalempsy> i got one from an african prince recently about the lotto
[22:11:57] <skunkworks> -Mach4 has fewer glitches, lockups, etc.
[22:12:12] <skunkworks> fewer...
[22:12:25] * skunkworks hugs linuxcnc
[22:12:49] <MacGalempsy> all i got to do is mail him $20k for the taxes and he is going to send me the multimillion dollar prize
[22:15:53] <MacGalempsy> CaptHindsight: send me your free money and i'll split the lotto with you
[22:26:38] <CaptHindsight> MacGalempsy: you too!
[22:27:05] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: remember that SailfishOS cellphone I mentioned? I just got it today
[22:27:06] <CaptHindsight> we must be the two luckiest guys!
[22:27:19] <CaptHindsight> tiwake: yeah, howizit?
[22:27:25] <tiwake> iznice
[22:27:53] <tiwake> there were quite a bit of updates since the version my old phone is using
[22:28:10] <CaptHindsight> http://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2016/6/9/11889910/theres-a-a-new-sailfish-os-phone this one??
[22:28:37] <tiwake> because its a non-native install on my old phone, the google nexus 5, it never did work correctly
[22:29:03] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: no, thats a new one evidently, I got the intex aquafish
[22:30:15] <CaptHindsight> http://www.intex.in/mobile/smartphone/aqua-fish/
[22:31:18] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: if you read any bad rap about Jolla, the company making SailfishOS, its 85% likely that they are talking about the crowd funding tablet they tried to do and failed because they didnt really have any good contacts for the components it was made of
[22:31:31] <tiwake> and yeah, thats my phone I just got
[22:32:14] <CaptHindsight> Linux with Mer middleware and Jolla
[22:32:32] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: they chose components and suppliers that tended to vanish half-way through the run, and evidently one of their suppliers kept half of the tablets for themselves as payment ... etc. etc.
[22:32:32] <CaptHindsight> so it's the latest stuff used for the n900
[22:32:49] <CaptHindsight> yeah, I recall
[22:32:57] <CaptHindsight> I could have helped
[22:33:10] <tiwake> kinda sad really... I payed to get a tablet myself
[22:33:12] <tiwake> oh well
[22:33:15] <CaptHindsight> i was kicking around an open phone project
[22:33:37] <tiwake> what do you mean the latest stuff for the N900?
[22:33:45] <CaptHindsight> the open laptop is dead since Intel and AMD only have blobs for the backdoors in EFI
[22:34:42] <CaptHindsight> sorry not the n900
[22:35:54] <tiwake> oh yeah, that intex aquafish battery is user-changeable... which is nice because phones these days tend to not be like that :-/
[22:36:42] <CaptHindsight> http://openlunchbox.com/open-cellphone/ could use Sailfish
[22:37:46] <tiwake> I've heard mir (mur?) is nice with sailfish, to run android programs
[22:37:54] <CaptHindsight> mer
[22:38:03] <CaptHindsight> ran it on the n900
[22:38:18] <tiwake> but it does not work on community ports of sailfishOS, like on my nexus5
[22:38:20] <CaptHindsight> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mer_(software_distribution)
[22:38:27] <tiwake> so I havent been able to try it yet
[22:39:01] <tiwake> yeah, mer... they use mer for their drivers, and lets them more easily interface with more hardware
[22:39:27] <tiwake> or something like that
[22:40:58] <tiwake> alright, time to dump some music on here
[22:42:45] <tiwake> well, lets download some more first
[22:47:37] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: you have a fav. youtube downloader?
[22:47:39] <roycroft> so, folks, a reality check
[22:48:02] <roycroft> if i'm looking for a 3 phase motor to run off a vfd for a lathe, i'll likely want a 1725rpm motor, right?
[22:48:25] <roycroft> and i want a tefc motor where the fan runs independently so that it provides adequate cooling at low motor rpm
[22:48:25] <zeeshan> skunkworks: i love how you dislike mach so much haha
[22:48:51] <tiwake> roycroft: what horsepower rating?
[22:48:56] <roycroft> probably 2hp
[22:49:02] <tiwake> oh a dinky little thing
[22:49:02] <roycroft> the lathe comes with a 1hp motor
[22:49:12] <roycroft> but i figure i should bump it up a bit
[22:49:25] <zeeshan> roycroft: i put a 2hp motor on my lathe
[22:49:26] <zeeshan> 12x36?
[22:49:34] <roycroft> i'm looking at a 10x22 right now
[22:49:36] <tiwake> sorry, donno about dinky little motors... all the motors I repair are generally in excess of 10hp
[22:49:37] <zeeshan> if it's a gear head
[22:49:41] <zeeshan> i wouldn't really exceed it's rpm
[22:49:46] <zeeshan> the china bearings are not the greatest
[22:49:47] <tiwake> normally 50hp or bigger
[22:50:01] <zeeshan> but hp is ok
[22:50:30] <zeeshan> what is the maximum rpm of the lathe
[22:50:31] <zeeshan> normally
[22:50:49] <roycroft> the stock range is 150-2400rpm
[22:50:54] <roycroft> i see no need to exceed 2400rpm
[22:50:58] <zeeshan> i wonder which gear is 1:1
[22:50:59] <roycroft> 150 is way too fast on the low end though
[22:51:15] <roycroft> i'd like the low end to go down to at least 70rpm
[22:51:17] <zeeshan> you'll be fine w/ 1725rpm
[22:51:25] <zeeshan> they are 4 pole motors
[22:51:26] <zeeshan> more torque
[22:51:27] <zeeshan> :D
[22:52:01] <zeeshan> tiwake: do you guys do servo motor rebuilds?
[22:52:13] <roycroft> i've been looking for a good used lathe, but they hard to come by around here
[22:52:14] <tiwake> zeeshan: yeah, but I don't get to see them
[22:52:36] <roycroft> and now that winter is hear, the few that i find east of hte mountains i can't really get to until spring
[22:52:39] <roycroft> here
[22:52:59] <tiwake> generally not, but they do rebuild them if requested to
[22:53:02] <zeeshan> roycroft: no joke, wait for another 1 year
[22:53:09] <zeeshan> economy will be crashing soon
[22:53:23] <tiwake> zeeshan: why?
[22:53:34] <roycroft> those 35% tariffs will make the chinese stuff unafforable
[22:53:49] <roycroft> and when wwiii starts everything will be expensive
[22:53:50] <zeeshan> tiwake: trump will wreak havoc
[22:54:14] <roycroft> trump will do a great job
[22:54:24] <roycroft> his intent is to make america great for him
[22:54:26] <zeeshan> whenever i see the dow jones closing at record highs
[22:54:27] <roycroft> and that's what he'll do
[22:54:32] <roycroft> to hell with everyone else
[22:54:40] <zeeshan> you know some sort of bubble is growing
[22:55:03] <tiwake> enh
[22:55:22] <roycroft> the eurozone is crashing too
[22:55:23] <tiwake> lots of government people are upset because their hive queen hillary did not win
[22:55:33] <roycroft> she was a horrible candidate
[22:55:51] <roycroft> i've been telling my friends for over a year that she could lose
[22:55:53] <zeeshan> tiwake: hilary would have destroyedf your economy
[22:55:55] <zeeshan> even more
[22:55:59] <roycroft> and when she did i was not surprised
[22:56:02] <zeeshan> either way, its inevitable
[22:56:17] <roycroft> nobody believed me
[22:56:28] <roycroft> now they're all pissed off at me
[22:56:34] <roycroft> because 1. i was right, and 2. i did not vote for her
[22:56:49] <tiwake> zeeshan: no, I think its an overall good thing to match the import taxes to the given countries import tax
[22:57:12] <tiwake> makes things more fair with international trade
[22:57:20] <roycroft> it's not as simple as that
[22:57:27] <zeeshan> tiwake: i believe in a free global economy
[22:57:30] <tiwake> a country lowers their import tax, USA lowers theirs
[22:57:34] <roycroft> which is why trade agreements are complex
[22:57:40] <zeeshan> if china wants to make your shitty ciggarette lighters
[22:57:40] <zeeshan> let them
[22:57:48] <zeeshan> theyr'e willing to work for a bag of rice
[22:57:50] <zeeshan> let them
[22:57:59] <tiwake> it does not quite work that way either
[22:58:10] <zeeshan> they'll be way better at making cigarrette lighters than a typical american would be
[22:58:17] <zeeshan> because most american's wouldnt want to make them to begin with
[22:58:24] <roycroft> currency manipulation, government subsidies, wage disparity, differences in safety/pollution laws, etc. all factor into the cost of a product
[22:58:25] <zeeshan> cause they're so shitty to make
[22:58:30] <roycroft> you can't just have parity of tariffs
[22:58:33] <zeeshan> you guys need mexicans!
[22:58:33] <tiwake> all electronics are made in china because of patent lockdowns in USA, and china does not care about USA patents
[22:58:37] <zeeshan> they do all your shitty jobs!
[22:58:50] <zeeshan> (not all mexicans do, but a majority of the illegals do)
[22:59:03] <zeeshan> making electronics is shitty work
[22:59:05] <Tom_L> they weren't all shitty jobs until they took them over
[22:59:14] <zeeshan> they are
[22:59:23] <zeeshan> if you look at an average manufacturing facility in the usa
[22:59:28] <zeeshan> people are doing brain dead work.
[22:59:29] <roycroft> immigrants, generally speaking, work a lot harder than native born americans
[22:59:38] <zeeshan> doing the exact same repetitive task
[22:59:40] <roycroft> we're a lazy people, and that's why we're threatened by immigrants who work hard
[22:59:41] <zeeshan> let the chinese do that crap
[22:59:45] <zeeshan> let us advance ourself.
[22:59:50] <tiwake> zeeshan: how is this a cruddy job? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCgnWqoP4MM
[23:00:03] <roycroft> anyway, i shall go back to motor shopping now
[23:00:05] <tiwake> zeeshan: any given dinky little thing is made that way these days
[23:00:15] <roycroft> i have a nice 2hp motor that would be great for this, except it's 3450rpm
[23:00:23] <zeeshan> tiwake: that isn't cruddy :p
[23:00:32] <tiwake> zeeshan: and a zippo lighter is?
[23:00:32] <zeeshan> that is how we compete with china
[23:00:34] <zeeshan> through automation
[23:00:43] <zeeshan> so we don't have to keep manually doing repetitive tasks.
[23:00:46] <roycroft> i'll just keep that motor for the project for which i axqwuired it in the first place
[23:01:05] <roycroft> there's the rub, zeeshan
[23:01:13] <roycroft> if trump is going to bring manufacturing jobs back to america
[23:01:20] <roycroft> he does not have to do anything about imports
[23:01:26] <tiwake> manufacturing in USA is automated
[23:01:30] <tiwake> <3
[23:01:30] <roycroft> we already manufacture more than we ever have in this country
[23:01:37] <zeeshan> tiwake: not automated enough
[23:01:39] <roycroft> he would have to deport all the robots
[23:02:09] <tiwake> roycroft: I'm confused about what you are saying now
[23:02:10] <Tom_L> someone has to build and maintain those lines
[23:02:18] <zeeshan> Tom_L: you're correct
[23:02:23] <roycroft> i'm saying that our manufacturing jobs did not go overseas
[23:02:32] <zeeshan> it's easier to maintain those lines
[23:02:32] <roycroft> they were eliminated due to automation
[23:02:41] <Tom_L> typically someone more educated than the people the lines replaced
[23:02:43] <zeeshan> than it is to maintain a worker that does the same task over and over
[23:02:44] <roycroft> if trump wants to bring back coal jobs
[23:02:51] <roycroft> he does not have to get rid of regulations
[23:02:53] <zeeshan> if it wasn't for china
[23:03:00] <zeeshan> usa would still be back in the early 1900s
[23:03:02] <CaptHindsight> tiwake: whatever works :)
[23:03:09] <roycroft> he needs to get rid of fracking
[23:03:10] <zeeshan> that's the point of global economy
[23:03:18] <roycroft> coal jobs did not go away because of regulation
[23:03:22] <roycroft> they went away because of cheap natural gas
[23:03:34] <Tom_L> we're gonna suck your oil dry next...
[23:03:49] <roycroft> coal mining jobs are never coming back
[23:03:51] <tiwake> Tom_L: next mellina?
[23:03:56] <tiwake> heh
[23:03:58] <zeeshan> our oil is too costly to extract
[23:03:58] <zeeshan> ;p
[23:04:11] <roycroft> not when trump drives the price of oil back above $100
[23:04:51] <CaptHindsight> he;s gonna move Apples manugacturing back to the US and make it mandatory to have iphones
[23:04:59] <roycroft> yes
[23:05:12] <tiwake> it will be an interesting change in the way trade is done... it won't really be a bad thing though, and a little bit of time to adjust
[23:05:15] <roycroft> because apple are the only major computer manufacturer doing final assembly in the us now
[23:05:25] <roycroft> so he's going to pick on them for doing what he wants
[23:05:37] <CaptHindsight> Apple Pay is how everyone will get paid
[23:05:43] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: I'd like to see more supermicro products... as far as I know they are one of the few motherboard manufacturing companies still making some of their motherboards in USA
[23:05:47] <roycroft> apple pay can go intercourse itself
[23:06:04] <CaptHindsight> Apple Taxes will just remove 50% of your funds
[23:06:11] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: lol
[23:06:12] <CaptHindsight> it's all automatic
[23:06:13] * roycroft goes shopping on that note
[23:06:19] <zeeshan> if apple comes back to usa for manufacturing
[23:06:31] <zeeshan> expect to pay 1400-1700 for an iphone
[23:06:32] <zeeshan> :D
[23:06:42] <tiwake> zeeshan: good, screw apple
[23:06:47] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: the parts cost the same
[23:06:48] <skunkworks> zeeshan, deep seated mental issues.. (me)
[23:06:58] <CaptHindsight> it will only cost $10 more to make here
[23:07:03] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: labour isn't
[23:07:05] <zeeshan> ;p
[23:07:13] <zeeshan> skunkworks: i love it
[23:07:14] <Tom_L> zeeshan no labor
[23:07:20] <Tom_L> it's all automated.. remember?
[23:07:29] <CaptHindsight> Apple Roads
[23:07:32] <zeeshan> not last i saw
[23:07:33] <Wolf_> ^
[23:07:38] <zeeshan> i still saw chinese people assembling
[23:07:48] <CaptHindsight> Apple Single Payer Healthcare
[23:07:57] <tiwake> zeeshan: did you not watch that youtube video I posted?
[23:08:01] <Wolf_> final assembly of the phones maybe
[23:08:08] <zeeshan> tiwake: briefly
[23:08:11] <zeeshan> some steam controller
[23:08:13] <tiwake> valve's steam controller
[23:08:28] <tiwake> completely automated
[23:08:39] <CaptHindsight> Apple iDoctor is who you'll see when you get sick
[23:08:44] <tiwake> thats how american manufacturing will be
[23:09:05] <Tom_L> iSick iGo to iDoc
[23:09:10] <tiwake> though a lot of the car industry jobs I blame on workers unions screwing the company over
[23:09:33] <Tom_L> true
[23:09:38] <CaptHindsight> your iPhone will automatically pay everyone
[23:09:42] <zeeshan> i'm not going to say what this is
[23:09:51] <zeeshan> but holy cow somethign that costs about 900 locally
[23:09:54] <zeeshan> and through usa..
[23:10:01] <zeeshan> guess how much it costs to make the exact same thing
[23:10:01] <roycroft> blah, this thing has a d80 frame motor mount
[23:10:04] <zeeshan> with exact same quality in china?
[23:10:09] <roycroft> that makes the motor expensive
[23:10:17] <zeeshan> i bet you guys can't guess :D
[23:10:25] <tiwake> and when it came to automate manufacturing cars in USA, the workers unions said no, so they moved production elsewhere
[23:10:38] <tiwake> and a major crash
[23:10:39] <roycroft> and even if i made a new motor mount, any d80 frame motor is going to have a metric shaft
[23:10:46] <roycroft> so new sheave
[23:10:46] <zeeshan> i thought lexus's production facility
[23:10:50] <zeeshan> was fully automated?
[23:11:22] <tiwake> roycroft: get a C-face baldor?
[23:13:20] <CaptHindsight> Jimmy Kimmmel is interviewing people on the street and asking people about Trumps cabinet appointments using all Marvell Comics villains instead of the actual people
[23:13:36] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: heh
[23:22:52] <LeelooMinai> Any ideas if I could harvest something that could act like a top of a touch probe? That is the shaft + round top being perfectly perpendicular. Something from aliexpress maybe...
[23:23:35] <LeelooMinai> Not sure how to make this part at home.
[23:27:56] <djdelorie> photo?
[23:29:01] <LeelooMinai> Well, say like on this photo - but with smaller shaft part: http://fadedbits.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/IMG_0226.jpg
[23:29:58] <LeelooMinai> Or I guess I could use some kind of shaft with thread and screw it to the top hoping it will be perpendicular.
[23:30:01] <djdelorie> which part are you trying to make?
[23:30:13] <djdelorie> the probe tip, or the container?
[23:30:33] <LeelooMinai> I need some plan for the top of the container + shaft that will go into the collet.
[23:31:19] <Wolf_> http://i.imgur.com/5805UGm.jpg like the two shanks in this pic?
[23:31:36] <LeelooMinai> Right, something like that I could use.
[23:31:45] <djdelorie> if the lip of the top registers against the lip on the bottom, that should line things up. Add a shoulder to register against too
[23:32:10] <Wolf_> well, neat thing, that mounts on a ball in the center and 4 screws
[23:32:46] <Wolf_> so you can tune the probe to be concentric
[23:33:01] <djdelorie> hint: if you have anything that fits in the arbor, you can mount a toolbit in your mill vise and use the mill like a lathe
[23:33:01] <LeelooMinai> Wolf_: Ok, but are those from a probe or something else?
[23:33:13] <Wolf_> renishaw probe mounts
[23:33:37] <LeelooMinai> Wolf_: Right, well, I won't get those from ali, etc.:)
[23:33:43] <djdelorie> that at least makes the bottom of the "top" axial to the mills actual rotation
[23:33:45] <Wolf_> ebay :D
[23:34:14] <djdelorie> you don't have a metal lathe?
[23:34:18] <LeelooMinai> I was thinking maybe using something that is used in some cheaper tool, but nothing comes to my mind.
[23:34:27] <LeelooMinai> djdelorie: No, no lathe.
[23:35:10] <Wolf_> cutting tool in vice, work part in spindle = lathe ;P
[23:35:20] <djdelorie> Wolf_: except for threading ;-)
[23:35:51] <Wolf_> yeah. thats a bit harder
[23:36:14] <djdelorie> I bet I could make one in my lathe pretty easily, but that doesn't help you...
[23:36:49] <LeelooMinai> I must MacGyver something, but without going crazy and creating ghetto lathes:)
[23:37:12] <djdelorie> well, you could always 3d-print somethi... OUCH OUCH cut that out! Ok, no 3d printing...
[23:37:33] <LeelooMinai> Maybe something, I don't know - some kind of shaft+disc, so, maybe some cutting tool attachment thingy...
[23:37:42] <djdelorie> er, bolt + pipe cap + a bit of mill-lathe to true up the edge + hot glue ?
[23:38:21] <Wolf_> bolt metal disk to a slitting saw arbor?
[23:38:38] <djdelorie> wait... if you have an arbor, get a pipe cap and drill that for the arbor?
[23:39:12] <djdelorie> something resembling http://www.barrplastics.com/assets/images/productMain/TLH_Fittings_Threaded_Sch.80-PP-Pipe-Caps.jpg
[23:39:14] <LeelooMinai> Right, slitting saw arbor - that's a planm
[23:39:49] <LeelooMinai> Right, well, if I had a pipe going with that, that could be the whole container
[23:40:37] <LeelooMinai> But not siure if they make those with 2" or so diameter... probably?
[23:41:14] <djdelorie> pipes come in many diameters. It would be sweet if the threads matched...
[23:52:22] <djdelorie> but you forgot the obvious solution of "Hey, does anyone in my area have a lathe?" ;-)
[23:53:03] <LeelooMinai> And the answer is no:)
[23:53:19] <djdelorie> mind if I ask where your area is?
[23:53:34] <roycroft> what do you need to turn?
[23:53:41] <LeelooMinai> Canada, but I don't know anyone.
[23:53:55] <djdelorie> eastern canada is within mailing distance of me...
[23:54:22] <djdelorie> (well, the whole planet is within mailing distance, but you know what I meant)
[23:54:48] <djdelorie> but cross-border shipping...
[23:55:24] <LeelooMinai> I will figure something out eventually.
[23:56:51] <roycroft> hold your part in the mill spindle with a collet and clamp a turning tool in your vise
[23:57:09] <djdelorie> I suggested that, but threading...
[23:57:19] <roycroft> that requires a very steady hand :)
[23:57:45] <roycroft> and a very good sense of timing
[23:57:52] <djdelorie> or a cnc machine
[23:58:43] <roycroft> or a die
[23:59:17] <djdelorie> given that this is the linuxcnc channel, and not the pipe_and_die channel, what are the odds?
[23:59:28] <roycroft> this is irc
[23:59:35] <roycroft> channel names are only suggestions on irc
[23:59:37] <roycroft> not laws
[23:59:40] <djdelorie> and assuming they didn't use some weird thread pitch that there aren't any dies for
[23:59:54] <roycroft> guns and politics are topics on almost every channel, for example