#linuxcnc | Logs for 2016-11-30

[02:07:22] <Wolf_> this servo stuff is fun >.< not sure which is worse these or steppers to setup
[02:22:35] <archivist> steppers can be easier, but they fail easier too
[02:25:35] <Wolf_> I did manage so far to get one of the servos to spin lol
[02:26:21] <Deejay> moin
[02:27:34] <Wolf_> http://i.imgur.com/e1dAkpu.jpg this bit has me puzzled, the motor excitation table off the motor spec sheet and the driver setup don’t match, shifted by one place, but the halls sensor outputs match
[02:32:01] <archivist> note the n different ways and choices
[02:33:36] <Wolf_> well, I’m figuring I have enough info to not have to guess, but, I don’t totally get the info yet lol
[02:44:41] <sync> Wolf_: they just chose a different step to start on
[02:46:48] <Wolf_> I am getting some oddness with the motor, like only holds/spins one way. I did notice on the kollmorgen branded amp the halls are labeled 3,1,2 on the inputs, vs 123 on the AMC amp
[05:27:11] <Wolf_> well that can’t be right…
[05:28:13] <archivist> what what what
[05:28:26] <Wolf_> http://i.imgur.com/Y73a8Xr.png
[05:28:54] <Wolf_> ch1 is hooked to index, 2/3 on a/b of the encoder
[05:31:19] <archivist> odd index "pulse"
[05:31:33] <Wolf_> very
[05:35:18] <archivist> if I trust the scope display, I have to distrust your connections,the encoder and the probe settings
[05:37:12] <Tom_L> 10x probes on 2 & 3 but not on 1 ?
[05:38:10] <archivist> set to x1 and also connected to a or b or encoder is odd
[05:39:31] <Wolf_> yay for stable internet…
[05:41:00] <archivist> did you see us talk about you
[05:41:11] <Tom_L> zlog
[05:46:57] <Wolf_> us digital E3 2000 CPR, with a PC5 rs-422 cable drive board (not connected for scope test)
[05:47:44] <Wolf_> yeah, was set to 10x…
[05:50:14] <archivist> you have the encoder offset so index is seeing the main holes
[05:51:16] <Wolf_> not sure how I could have done that.. http://cdn.usdigital.com/assets/datasheets/E3_datasheet.pdf?k=636160971138557351 is the encoder
[06:10:44] <jthornton> morning
[06:13:04] <Deejay> hey
[06:25:24] <Wolf_> well, shit, that explains why the index won’t work, different encoder stuffed in the housing, HEDS-9000-T00, don’t see indexing anywhere on the data sheet
[06:30:05] <archivist> is there an index hole on the disk
[06:32:17] <Wolfmetalfab> no hole that i can see http://i.imgur.com/Qa21QJU.jpg
[06:49:04] <Wolfmetalfab> hmm, would cost me $74 per servo to upgrade them to disk/encoder w/ index…
[06:50:15] <archivist> you dont always need index
[06:50:58] <Wolfmetalfab> that was going to be the next question, whats the use of index other then spindle motor
[06:51:25] <archivist> often used for accurate homing
[06:53:16] <Jymmm> Your drunk, walk into someone elses home, someone screams... not homed properly, try again =)
[06:53:34] <Wolfmetalfab> hmm, I may get one more amp so I have a full set and then put these aside for my cnc plasma table build, not super critical on that thing
[06:54:05] <Wolfmetalfab> may be stupid overkill though…
[06:55:13] <archivist> as you touch off to the part, actual home position is less important antway
[06:55:20] <archivist> anyway
[06:55:29] <Wolfmetalfab> true
[08:42:43] <sync> archivist: not really if you have fixturing or an atc on your machine, homing matters quite a lot
[10:33:11] <yasnak> _methods - don't worry man, i'm going to get back to you. guess who showed up monday? fda surprise audit, but its two chicks who seem pretty cool. they said they 'love those swiss machines with the stars on them, they're cute'. ughhh
[10:33:57] <_methods> hehe
[10:34:17] <_methods> sounds good man we're not hurting for work so whenever is fine with me
[10:48:03] <CaptHindsight> yasnak: did you tell them that you expected something like this so HA!
[10:50:04] <yasnak> last time they did it was right before winter vacation rush
[10:50:08] <yasnak> they always plan it then...
[10:50:19] <yasnak> amazing really, might need to start taking vacation even earlier
[11:41:49] <MacGalempsy_> morning
[11:42:50] <archivist> you are late it is 17:11 pm!
[11:43:09] <MacGalempsy_> heh. its almost noon around here
[11:43:36] <MacGalempsy_> a couple of games, then on to the shop
[12:07:27] <MacGalempsy_> Does anyone running a J1900 get better than 340000ns on the latency test?
[12:14:21] <pcw_home> If you get 340000 ns (340 us) it may mean you have some power management options enabled in the BIOS
[12:15:44] <MacGalempsy_> pcw_home: do you happen to have a list of the appropriate settings for the bios on this MB?
[12:15:50] <pcw_home> I get around 30000 ns (Preempt-RT) RTAI should be a bit better
[12:16:50] <pcw_home> disable all C-states above C1
[12:17:26] <pcw_home> disable CPU speed switching ( "Turbo mode" )
[12:18:57] <pcw_home> that is run at normal 2 GHz (disable 2.4 GHz burst mode)
[12:32:17] <IchGucksLive> hi
[12:33:10] <Jymmm> Disable unused devices helps too - IDE/SATA/I/O ports, etc
[12:41:08] <Roguish> I have an ASROCK Q1900 and get less than 10000 ns jitter
[12:51:35] <MacGalempsy_> pcw_home: thank you. the settings have been changed and the latency test is up and running again. The servo drives I am using are set to torque mode, which the manual states they run a 3kH bandwidth. I think that comes up to 333,333ns. Do you think setting the servo period to 333,333ns is the right thing to do (it is currently at 1kH)
[12:52:26] <MacGalempsy_> Jymmm: hey, whats going on in the shop today?
[12:55:23] <Tom_L> Roguish, which Q1900?
[12:55:42] <Roguish> q1900m
[12:55:53] <Roguish> i like it
[12:56:17] <Tom_L> pro3?
[12:56:46] <Tom_L> i've got that and the itx version but don't have either running lcnc yet
[12:56:53] <CaptHindsight> my $25 ChinaCo auto battery charger burned out! Well the smoke inside the xfmr came out.
[12:57:04] <Tom_L> stuff it back in
[12:57:14] <MacGalempsy_> hang up a no smoking sign
[12:57:18] <CaptHindsight> makes a buzzing sound as well
[12:57:33] <Tom_L> you let the bees out too?
[12:57:45] <CaptHindsight> I figured the diodes would go before the xfmr
[12:57:53] <Roguish> don't think its a pro3. don't see that on the box anywhere.
[12:58:25] <CaptHindsight> maybe I should spend $30 next time
[12:58:46] <pcw_home> MacGalempsy_: what hardware do you have? Note that you will likely not be able to run a 3 KHz servo thread on EPP connected hardware
[12:58:59] <Tom_L> Roguish, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157565&cm_re=Q1900M_Pro3-_-13-157-565-_-Product
[12:59:34] <gregcnc> there is some Chronos high speed footage on YT now
[12:59:42] <MacGalempsy_> it is a j1900 with a SSD and a mesa 5i25/7i77/7i84
[13:02:33] <CaptHindsight> MacGalempsy_: I think Jymmm is out collecting all the free salt he found on CL to store his heat in for the winter.
[13:04:54] <CaptHindsight> https://www.walmart.com/ip/700-Amp-Jumper-Camo/54887044 was looking for this but couldn't find it
[13:05:12] <MacGalempsy_> nice, just drill holes in the joists and pour salt between the studs
[13:05:18] <Roguish> Tom_L: still not sure if it's a Pro3 thing. I do use an SSD and a Mesa 6i24. very good performance.
[13:05:42] <MacGalempsy_> how often do you need a jumpstart?
[13:06:10] <gregcnc> winter might actually arrive here in chicagoland
[13:06:33] <MacGalempsy_> it only rains and snows bullets up there
[13:12:47] <gregcnc> capthindsight https://chicago.craigslist.org/sox/tls/5898604838.html I swear this was $900 this morning
[13:12:55] <gregcnc> A little further out https://madison.craigslist.org/hvo/5898158986.html
[13:15:44] <MacGalempsy_> if that second one was around here, i would go pick it up
[13:16:09] <CaptHindsight> hah!!
[13:17:10] <MacGalempsy_> all we seem to have around here are overpriced old shit and wood lathes
[13:19:33] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: thanks bbl
[13:34:36] <IchGucksLive> Gn8
[13:34:42] <MacGalempsy_> so almost the entire collection of popular mechanics is available to read online for free. im about 1/2 way thru 1905 and it is pretty amazing, some of the stuff in there
[13:40:56] <MacGalempsy_> pcw_home: if the hardware is not fast enough for 3kH, do you think speeding it up to its max will help out?
[13:54:18] <andypugh> Eh? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Move-Moving-TM-Slotting-Endmill/dp/B01EOI9XH4/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1480533896&sr=8-6&keywords=keyway+cutter
[13:56:11] <cradek> andypugh: huh.
[13:56:39] <andypugh> Funny looking endmill
[13:57:08] <gregcnc> needs a few hamburgers
[13:57:15] <Tom_L> the actual endmill pictured looks kinda cheap too
[13:57:43] <cradek> yeah, looks unusable
[13:59:20] <andypugh> Relatives have demanded that I populate my Amazon wish-list so that they don’t have to think too hard what to get me for Christmas.
[13:59:28] <andypugh> So I am browsing randomly
[14:00:12] <andypugh> I admit that I am hard to buy for. If I want something, I just buy it.
[14:00:19] <JT-Shop> MacGalempsy_: what is a valid zip code for arkansas?
[14:00:33] <JT-Shop> testing my shipping calculator
[14:00:42] <gregcnc> dear family: send your thoughts and cash
[14:02:53] <JT-Shop> lol
[14:02:57] <pcw_mesa> MacGalempsy_ yes, though a J1900 with PCI hardware should be OK at 3 KHz
[14:05:26] <gregcnc> hmm i set an old P3 900 to 4khz and it seemed to run, but I haven't gone beyond some tuning
[14:06:45] <MacGalempsy_> lol.
[14:06:49] <MacGalempsy_> 72774
[14:06:59] <MacGalempsy_> use that for the free sampls
[14:07:51] <MacGalempsy_> I turned it up to 3kH and the tune is holding on the xzy axes, I think they sound different
[14:12:55] <MacGalempsy_> JT-Shop: storefront link?
[14:18:25] <JT-Shop> http://mesaus.com/
[14:22:21] <MacGalempsy_> i see something missing from the formula. the chromed computer backplate. I bought mine with the tall, but ended up getting a short. or vice versa.
[15:03:21] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: the $500 lathe has already sold
[15:03:37] <CaptHindsight> the $1300 logan is still available
[15:18:40] <Jymmm> MacGalempsy_: Testing perlite insulation on ghetto stovepipe
[15:36:40] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: No salt, not enough mass available. Well look into the thermal storage come spring.
[15:36:46] <Jymmm> will*
[15:43:21] <CaptHindsight> how about densified uranium?
[15:43:49] <CaptHindsight> army surplus so it's cheap :)
[15:44:05] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: No TES for now.
[15:59:39] <andypugh> A friend of mine had a large room of his (large) house completely filled with large round pebbles as a thermal store. I am not sure how effective it was. The idea was that it got hot in summer and was used in winter.
[16:00:22] <andypugh> (and that reminds me, I calculated yesteday that UK electricity output is just about enough to boil the flow of the Thames)
[16:00:29] <XXCoder> rocks has pretty massive termal storage
[16:07:58] <SpeedEvil> Pretty close to 1kWh/ton-c
[16:08:27] <SpeedEvil> So 200 tons will get you 1000kWh over a 5C delta-t
[16:08:56] <SpeedEvil> Or about 500 watts over 3 months or so
[16:09:10] <XXCoder> just remember iceberg has more heat than your hot coffee cup heh
[16:09:36] <XXCoder> you wouldnt belive how many people protested on that
[16:24:10] <Deejay> gn8
[16:25:21] <Dissent> I'll be using LinuxCNC soon
[16:25:22] <Dissent> =D
[16:32:14] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Actually, water has more than rocks.
[16:32:35] <XXCoder> jy yeah, water have hguge termal storage than rocks
[16:32:46] <XXCoder> it takes so much energy to heat water to boilinh
[16:32:55] <XXCoder> well running off to work laters
[16:33:04] <Dissent> ;)
[16:33:31] <Jymmm> XXCoder: And I'm looking it phase change as that provides 62X more storage
[16:33:39] <Jymmm> into*
[16:41:27] <andypugh> Dissent: On what machine?
[16:41:56] <Dissent> maybe an rpi if its possible
[16:42:10] <Dissent> oh its not
[16:42:20] <Dissent> without special board, so probably older pc I have here
[16:42:33] <andypugh> I was more asking about the CNC machine
[16:42:42] <andypugh> And you _can_ run LinuxCNC on an Rpi
[16:43:47] <CaptHindsight> but it takes gpu-fu to have a GUI
[16:44:32] <CaptHindsight> the Rpi3 has open gpu drivers now but I hear that people still have trouble getting a GUI running quickly enough
[16:45:56] <BeachBumPete> http://i.imgur.com/tACxWk9.jpg :)
[17:00:44] <MacGalempsy_> ooooo
[17:00:59] <MacGalempsy_> new psu for the mill huh?
[17:01:19] <BeachBumPete> yeah I just got home and it was here so now I can get the mill up again.
[17:02:24] <BeachBumPete> I am also going to rewire the MPG power using one of those buck boards right off the main DC power supply instead of tapping into this new PC supply for the 5v
[17:02:33] <MacGalempsy_> ive been messing with this damn 4th axis. I can get the f-error down below 0.1, but it still errors...
[17:03:01] <MacGalempsy_> ive tried to set the acceptable error to 10, but it seems to be ignored.
[17:04:10] <Frank_6> can linuxcnc account for backlash?
[17:04:12] <BeachBumPete> well sounds like you are making some progress anyway
[17:04:54] <Frank_6> ok looks like it can hehe google answered
[17:07:07] <bpuk> Frank_6 - it can compensate somewhat for backlash - but if possible you're far better off fixing the mechanical lash
[17:08:33] <andypugh> Frank_6: You can even have a file that compensates for fifferent degrees of backlash at different points in the travel
[17:09:08] <andypugh> But: The controller can’t know the direction the cutting force is acting in, so it’s at best a partial solution.
[17:09:21] <Frank_6> yep, i saw that on the forum. is there any disadvantage?
[17:09:48] <andypugh> It’s better than not doing it. But not as good as not having it.
[17:09:56] <Frank_6> lol
[17:10:42] <bpuk> hence reduce backlash mechanically first, then compensate for what you can't remove
[17:10:43] <Frank_6> i dont understand how knowing the controller the cuting force direction would act in a different way,
[17:11:25] <Wolfmetalfab> climb vs standard milling
[17:11:40] <Frank_6> i willl be running on rack and pinion and im trying to make a decent 1800mm lenght axis
[17:11:56] <Wolfmetalfab> application makes a difference as well
[17:12:28] <Wolfmetalfab> mill/lathe/plasma/pancake printer…
[17:12:54] <bpuk> pretty sure Frank_6 is doing a wood router - nicely built one
[17:13:38] <Wolfmetalfab> ok, cutting force is different vs a metal mill in that case
[17:14:01] <Frank_6> its a router, i've seen a lot of people just spring loading the pinion to the rack, but there are disadvantages to that too
[17:14:47] <bpuk> split pinion is one of the better ways for rack
[17:15:01] <bpuk> best I'm aware of is two motors per rack, but that requires fancy controller support
[17:15:59] <bpuk> have you measured how much backlash you have? (lock the motor, put a dial gage on, push gently in one direction, zero the dial gage, push gently back the other)
[17:16:23] <Frank_6> i still havent bought the racks and pinions..
[17:16:50] <Wolfmetalfab> so current its 100% backlash? :P
[17:17:21] <Frank_6> 1000%
[17:17:58] <Frank_6> atlanta drives makes those split pinions solutions but i think they are expensive
[17:18:53] <ve7it> Jymmm, whats hanging?
[17:19:05] <andypugh> Use double-helical and bias the pinion sideways
[17:19:33] <andypugh> (I inveted that idea, but have no idea how many people invented it before me)
[17:21:15] <sync> Frank_6: just use two servos and preload them by applying static torque
[17:21:17] <Frank_6> hehe, i think i've heard you around talking about it, what you are saying is to mount 2 pinions, and the motor in tandem by a timing pulley? or the motor connected to one pinion and a second pinion doing the spring loading in another direction
[17:21:46] <Frank_6> sync: can i borrow 2000usd for the extra servos?
[17:22:26] <CaptHindsight> Frank_6: how many watt servos do you need?
[17:22:37] <bpuk> andypugh: a lot ;)
[17:22:59] <Frank_6> i already have 2 servos for X 1 for Y and a stepper for Z
[17:23:53] <CaptHindsight> use a brushed preload motor
[17:23:56] <Frank_6> capthindsight: if it were for the watts that i needed i would have bought 500w servos but there isnt much to choose from here
[17:24:32] <FloppyDisk525> something like this, but lay it straight?
[17:24:33] <FloppyDisk525> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herringbone_gear
[17:24:48] <Frank_6> capthindsight: okey now we are going somewhere hehe
[17:25:57] <CaptHindsight> Frank_6: did you buy the rack and pinion yet?
[17:26:07] <Frank_6> wouldnt the motor just burn out if it doesnt turn?
[17:26:10] <Frank_6> nope
[17:26:10] <CaptHindsight> if not use andys suggestion
[17:26:56] <Frank_6> yeah, im trying to understand what he ment
[17:27:27] <bpuk> put two helical gears on a shaft, move them apart to reduce backlash
[17:27:41] <CaptHindsight> gravity does it for you
[17:27:55] <andypugh> You can actually just push a fixed double-helical gear sidways.
[17:28:45] <andypugh> (In fact, I think that pushing it apart in the middle is no help at all)
[17:29:03] <Frank_6> so one pinion is ahead of the other?
[17:29:50] <Frank_6> i feel like you are talking in another language :D maybe its me
[17:30:06] <Frank_6> but i would need helical racks right?
[17:31:07] <FloppyDisk525> I'm not seeing it either, I would think you need to helical racks as well. One for each of the opposing helicals. If that makes sense???
[17:31:20] <FloppyDisk525> to --> two
[17:32:19] <andypugh> Yes. Double-helical rack and double-helical pinion. Then bias the pinion sidways.
[17:33:04] <FloppyDisk525> I'm sorry - but what does 'bias the pinion sideways' mean?
[17:34:34] <FloppyDisk525> wouldn't the pinion sit on top of the two racks and travel up/down them as the motor turns?
[17:34:36] <Frank_6> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyDnS4-V1OA this guy uses straight rack and just spring pushes the pinion to the rack, seems that it works, but i dont see many fast moves on that machine, and i am aiming for that, maybe i can do this until i gather enough money and go for a nice atlanta drive systems setup
[17:37:48] <Frank_6> how about this: 1 motor moves 2 pinions that are at different points in the rack all connected with timing pulleys?
[17:40:38] <andypugh> Yes, the pinion sits on top of the rack and travels up and down as the motor turns. And you bias the pinion sideways along the motor shaft axis.
[17:41:09] <andypugh> So, the right sie of the pinion touches the rack on one side, and the other on the other. For no backlash.
[17:42:02] <Jymmm> ve7it: Not much, yourself?
[17:49:10] <MacGalempsy_> I get about 4 high peaks and after the peak-current time limit, the drive goes into a nice low f-error cruise. I was thinking that raising D would make it come to oscillation, but it does not.
[17:52:04] <FloppyDisk525> Oh - I'm idiot - bias ='s align. duh... I get it, makes sense now, easily confused.
[17:54:05] <FloppyDisk525> This pertinent: https://www.quora.com/What-Is-the-difference-between-herringbone-and-double-helical-gears
[19:07:26] <sector_0> what's the cheapest linear rail I can build with the following requirements...
[19:07:48] <tiwake> you want to build a linear bearing?
[19:08:03] <tiwake> I hope you have a really good surface grinder
[19:08:21] <sector_0> it needs to be rigid (because I'm going to use it to apply a pressing force), and it has to be fairly sturdy, in terms of not wobbling too much
[19:09:01] <sector_0> I was think about ballscrews and draw slides, but ballscrew seem a little too much, I'm not sure
[19:09:52] <sector_0> I like that a ball screw is rigid and I know I can cheaply replace it with a regular threaded rod, but threaded rods tend to have fine pitches which make it unsuitable
[19:10:07] <sector_0> I want something that can travel relatively fast
[19:10:44] <sector_0> a threaded rod with a pitch of a common ball screw would be perfect, but as far as I know, those don't exist
[19:10:53] <sector_0> ... at least not where I live :p
[19:11:16] <tiwake> sector_0: what are you doing?
[19:11:31] <tiwake> also, you want acme threaded rod
[19:11:48] <tiwake> ballscrews are superior though
[19:12:34] <tiwake> even the cheap rolled ballscrews are going to be better, with like 0.003" of backlash
[19:12:46] <sector_0> tiwake, acme screw are fine I guess, don't really care about backlash
[19:13:04] <sector_0> just need it to apply a straight enough force
[19:13:31] <tiwake> sector_0: I say acme threaded rod because you can get those "off the shelf" with a lot coarser threads per inch
[19:14:20] <sector_0> yeah i just looked them up on ebay they are perfect for what I need
[19:14:26] <sector_0> course thread, and cheap
[19:14:50] <tiwake> you will have 0.015" of backlash, or possibly more
[19:15:24] <sector_0> tiwake, that won't be a problem for my project
[19:16:48] <tiwake> what is your project?
[19:18:52] <sector_0> tiwake, a loom
[19:19:32] <sector_0> they rails are for the reed, so the beat up can take place
[19:54:12] <sector_0> ball screw threads do look a lot coarser than acme screws though
[20:03:19] <CaptHindsight> the balls would get to be so small that higher loads would not be possible
[20:07:09] <CaptHindsight> http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/bfd/5875713328.html anyone know of better deals?
[20:07:24] <CaptHindsight> 40' USED Portable Shipping Containers for Sale - $1150
[20:07:36] <andypugh> FloppyDisk525: I have seen that article before. I disagree about the distinction.
[20:08:29] <kyle____> i'm super late but uh
[20:08:53] <kyle____> sector_0: you can get C7 ballscrews for $30-60 depending on length
[20:09:01] <kyle____> that's going to be far better than any acme threaded rod
[20:10:17] <sector_0> kyle____, yeah they're not too bad
[20:10:18] <CaptHindsight> do they make a 40tpi ball screw? :p
[20:11:03] <sector_0> ..at least for what they can do
[20:11:15] <andypugh> sector_0: http://www.igus.com/wpck/17149/dryspin_High_helix_leadscrews
[20:11:20] <kyle____> are C7 ballscrews usually ground or rolled?
[20:11:41] <kyle____> i was under the impression that you didn't get rolled until you looked at transport rated screws
[20:12:17] <andypugh> kyle__1: I forget which way the numbers go, but nowadays they can make rolled screws that meet the higher accuracy grades
[20:12:26] <kyle____> oh cool
[20:12:40] <kyle____> i figured C7 was the bottom end of ground screws
[20:13:26] <kyle____> what kind of ballpark are those helix leadscrews in, andypugh?
[20:13:32] <kyle____> pricewise, i mean
[20:14:24] <andypugh> There is a price on that page I linked to
[20:14:38] <andypugh> £28 / m
[20:14:45] <kyle____> wot
[20:14:51] <kyle____> it just says upon request for me
[20:15:04] <andypugh> How many do you want?
[20:15:14] <tiwake> kyle____: depending, the good ones are rolled, then ground
[20:15:25] <kyle____> beats me, just wanted to see what those run for
[20:15:25] <tiwake> or sometimes just ground from the start
[20:15:36] <kyle____> yeah, tiwake
[20:15:50] <kyle____> just not sure where the "cutoff" happens
[20:15:55] <andypugh> I think that they tend to use thread-whirling now
[20:16:03] <tiwake> I don't remember what the specified tollerances are for the different C classes of ball screws
[20:16:15] <kyle____> ofc, there's not actually a cutoff, since some manufacturers can probably roll a C5
[20:16:28] <BeachBumPete> Well the VMC seems to be working after I figured out how to jumper the power on in the DM525MW LOL
[20:16:54] <tiwake> andypugh: in the copper parts I made I used a thread rolling head
[20:17:15] <andypugh> kyle____: Try selecting a Part Number from the combo-box, you might get numbers then
[20:17:19] <tiwake> kinda expensive tool htere... heh
[20:17:20] <tiwake> *there
[20:17:36] <kyle____> same thing, andypugh
[20:17:42] <kyle____> probably because i'm in america
[20:18:22] <andypugh> Igus are in Providence, RI. It says so right there on the page
[20:18:40] <kyle____> oh so you converted the price yourself?
[20:18:51] <andypugh> No, it seems to do that automatically.
[20:19:00] <kyle____> yeah, that's what i'm saying
[20:19:03] <andypugh> SOme of the sizes are not quoting, most do
[20:19:17] <kyle____> they're all quotes for me, i'm wondering if they only do that for USD
[20:21:28] <kyle____> also, damn, absolute rotary encoders are pricey
[20:22:17] <kyle____> why are they so expensive? it's just a photodiode array and a printed disc, right?
[20:23:25] <andypugh> It’s a disc with an accurate array of very teeny holes
[20:23:31] <malcom2073> "just"
[20:23:54] <malcom2073> Why are servos so expensive, they're just a motor with an encoder :-P
[20:24:06] <kyle____> i mean, the disc can't be the expensive part, can it?
[20:24:16] <andypugh> Yes, it can
[20:24:25] <malcom2073> The disc, and the electronics to read it at speed
[20:24:28] <andypugh> And if you think that encoders are expensive, look at Resolvers
[20:24:30] <kyle____> hm
[20:27:31] <BeachBumPete> I don't think servos are really all that expensive unless you gotta have the best and brightest...
[20:28:05] <andypugh> I have one of these on the spindle of my lathe. I paid £20 for it. The packaging arrived with a label “firm prce £1450”
[20:28:09] <kyle____> yeah just grab an old shaded pole motor off a dead vacuum and stick a potentiometer on it
[20:28:09] <andypugh> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EX-Military-MUIRHEAD-RESOLVER-23M5J1-/201724847781?hash=item2ef7bce6a5:g:QwQAAOSwMNxXaSZr
[20:28:32] <kyle____> interesting
[20:30:27] <kyle____> when would you use a resolver vs an encoder?
[20:31:02] <andypugh> They are a lot tougher
[20:31:16] <kyle____> ah okay
[20:31:35] <kyle____> and i suppose it makes more sense now why an encoder might be so expensive
[20:31:52] <kyle____> mostly because i can't find any being sold with fewer than 30 bits
[21:17:12] <BeachBumPete> Man I forgot how cool it was to machine parts :) Its been far too long...
[21:17:21] <Tom_L> get your psu?
[21:17:24] <Wolfmetalfab> :)
[21:17:37] <Tom_L> or was that for something else
[21:17:51] <zeeshan> nice pete
[21:18:00] <BeachBumPete> yeah its in there now. Honestly at first it did not seem to work but I found that I had to jumper the reset on the mother board and then everything started up fine.
[21:18:14] <Tom_L> saw that
[21:18:31] <Tom_L> wonder why you had to reset it
[21:18:45] <BeachBumPete> I am not sure but once I did everything fired right up
[21:18:53] <zeeshan> if it works
[21:18:55] <zeeshan> dont question
[21:18:56] <zeeshan> :D
[21:18:57] <BeachBumPete> I just ran it thru the warmup program several times
[21:19:03] <Tom_L> i'm trying to figure out how to get 2.7.8 installed
[21:19:05] <BeachBumPete> seems to be working well
[21:19:06] <zeeshan> BeachBumPete: you wanna know something interesting?
[21:19:15] <zeeshan> i was talking to the mazak application engineers
[21:19:23] <zeeshan> apparently you dont have to run the warm up program on their machine?
[21:19:24] <BeachBumPete> I also had to cut some metal so I stuck a piece of aluminum in there and whittled it away LOL
[21:20:03] <BeachBumPete> I am running it because this machine has not run for many months and I wanted to get some fresh lube in there and whatnot
[21:20:18] <Tom_L> zeeshan what's their reasoning?
[21:20:45] <BeachBumPete> I have been also carving on my custom Field target stock and decided to wait to finish it so I could use the VMC to inlet the stock
[21:20:53] <BeachBumPete> now that it is running again I can do that.
[21:21:01] <BeachBumPete> I just need to sit down and create a program for it
[21:21:14] <zeeshan> temperature compensated ball screws
[21:21:16] <zeeshan> preloaded bearings
[21:21:17] <BeachBumPete> I had started with some measurements on the cad awhile abck
[21:21:32] <zeeshan> spindle vibration control
[21:22:37] <BeachBumPete> I started contacting the MANY folks who had contacted me about having custom rails machined. Hopefully I will start hearing back from them soon and I can get working again.
[21:28:55] <Tom_L> what linux version are you running lcnc on?
[21:29:01] <Tom_L> either of you
[21:29:06] <dioz> obsd
[21:29:08] <dioz> HAH
[21:29:21] <Tom_L> i know you're not
[21:29:27] <zeeshan> ubuntu
[21:29:37] <Tom_L> 10.04?
[21:30:25] <Tom_L> they've dropped support for it but i wanna update to 2.7.8 and i forgot what jt told me to do for that
[21:30:41] <BeachBumPete> I am on ubuntu
[21:30:54] <Tom_L> what flavor?
[21:31:01] <BeachBumPete> don't remember
[21:31:22] <Tom_L> oh i bet you're still on 10 too
[21:34:45] <BeachBumPete> probably..
[21:52:10] <zeeshan> i want a new motherboard
[21:52:12] <zeeshan> on the mill computer
[21:52:17] <zeeshan> i made a big mistake going with my old pos comp
[21:52:23] <zeeshan> from the early 2000s :p
[21:52:40] <Tom_L> ahh, there we go... installing 2.7.8
[21:54:50] <Tom_L> zeeshan get one of those asrock boards
[21:55:02] <zeeshan> i want to
[21:55:06] <zeeshan> but the usd is really fucking me
[21:55:07] <zeeshan> :p
[21:55:13] <Tom_L> the price has gone up since i got mine
[21:55:20] <Wolf_> I think I need one of those asrock as well...
[21:55:20] <Tom_L> i have a spare...
[21:55:29] <zeeshan> why do you have a spare
[21:55:31] <zeeshan> i need 2!
[21:55:41] <Tom_L> i have one of each
[21:55:43] <zeeshan> im waiting for trump to drop your currency
[21:55:45] <Tom_L> atx and itx
[21:55:46] <zeeshan> so then i can buy buy buy
[21:55:50] <Tom_L> haha
[21:56:04] <Tom_L> we're gonna build a wall around canada too
[21:56:10] <Wolf_> naa
[21:56:14] <Tom_L> heh
[21:56:17] <Wolf_> Canada will build their own wall
[21:56:24] <Tom_L> ^^
[21:56:25] <zeeshan> as long as it uses gypsum board
[21:56:28] <zeeshan> im cool with it
[21:56:33] <zeeshan> helps with us building plants
[21:56:34] <zeeshan> :D
[21:56:35] <Tom_L> job security
[21:56:37] <Wolf_> keep the flood of crying college kids out
[21:56:48] <Tom_L> that is so stupid
[21:57:37] <zeeshan> http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=CAD&view=5Y
[21:57:39] <zeeshan> seriously
[21:57:44] <zeeshan> why cant we go to 2013 levels
[21:57:44] <zeeshan> :()
[21:57:46] <zeeshan> 1:1 was nice
[21:58:02] <Tom_L> have a bud send you one
[21:58:17] <zeeshan> i have usd right now
[21:58:19] <zeeshan> in paypal
[21:58:21] <zeeshan> saving it for VFD
[21:58:39] <zeeshan> im pretty sure ill be going with the hitachi 30hp
[21:59:19] <Wolf_> finally made one of my servos spin last night
[21:59:33] <Wolf_> only took me like 12 years to try one out lol
[21:59:34] <zeeshan> https://www.driveswarehouse.com/sj700d-220lfuf3-2999
[22:00:32] <Tom_L> this is for the lathe?
[22:01:53] <zeeshan> yes
[22:02:00] <Tom_L> what's the 3P for on the input voltage?
[22:02:06] <Tom_L> it's not 3phase input is it?
[22:02:59] <Tom_L> says it is
[22:03:13] <Tom_L> how you gonna do that?
[22:03:23] <Wolf_> 105A input
[22:03:36] <Wolf_> ouch
[22:04:56] <zeeshan> it is 3 p input
[22:04:59] <zeeshan> but i run it in 2 phase
[22:05:00] <zeeshan> er
[22:05:02] <zeeshan> single phase
[22:05:07] <zeeshan> my motor is only 20hp
[22:05:22] <zeeshan> that is why i oversize to 30hp to make sure caps and transistors don't blow up
[22:05:23] <Tom_L> didn't know you could do that
[22:05:44] <zeeshan> main diff between single phase vfd
[22:05:51] <zeeshan> and 3 phase input vfd is sizing of components internally
[22:06:00] <zeeshan> single phase components are oversized
[22:06:04] <Wolf_> well that is neat to know
[22:06:06] <zeeshan> due to some ripple current bs that i dont care about
[22:06:07] <zeeshan> lol
[22:06:15] <zeeshan> but apparently ripple current heats up things
[22:06:17] <zeeshan> and blows em up
[22:06:23] <Tom_L> yeah
[22:06:33] <Tom_L> i _was_ aware of that
[22:06:43] <zeeshan> the sumitomo drive on the mill is 3phase
[22:06:54] <Tom_L> just don't know about vfd much at all
[22:07:26] <Wolf_> I was thinking of getting a 1/2hp single in to play with, I have a 1 ton electric chain hoist that could use to play with (3ph and missing pendant)
[22:09:29] <Tom_L> they don't distribute those in canada?
[22:10:01] <BeachBumPete> I have the ASrock board too looking forward to stuffing it into the CNC lathe here soon
[22:11:45] <zeeshan> not for a decent price
[22:12:10] <zeeshan> asrock board gets around!
[22:12:28] <Tom_L> BeachBumPete, take note: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XntXTuXNfvE&feature=youtu.be
[22:13:18] <BeachBumPete> Rub it in man...
[22:13:31] <Tom_L> skunkworks did that
[22:13:43] <zeeshan> wow
[22:13:45] <BeachBumPete> I know who did it but I have been unable
[22:13:49] <zeeshan> that matsurra has parkinsons
[22:13:52] <BeachBumPete> that is a sweet mahcine tho
[22:13:52] <Tom_L> it's on the lcnc page 'showcase'
[22:15:26] <Tom_L> early day tomorrow. i guess i'm out
[22:15:32] <zeeshan> cya
[22:15:38] <BeachBumPete> goodnight
[23:32:49] <codepython777> does anyone here own a 6040?
[23:34:58] <Kevin`> codepython777: yeah?
[23:35:53] <codepython777> hi Kevin`
[23:35:59] <codepython777> I'm thinking of investing in one
[23:36:05] <codepython777> where did you buy yours from?
[23:36:12] <Kevin`> omiocnc
[23:37:22] <codepython777> Kevin`: better than 6040?
[23:37:36] <codepython777> ball screws?
[23:37:46] <Kevin`> only problem i've had is the grounding design isn't great. but that's fixable with fscks and a little bit of wire, in theory. doesn't affect the control system cuz isolation but it couples noise into fingers
[23:37:56] <codepython777> the controller still looks like the one on 6040?
[23:38:01] <Kevin`> well, I consider it to *be* a 6040, although it's better than some of the more generic ones
[23:39:20] <codepython777> I looked at a 48v PSU and usb controller for the 6040 - still needed for this omio?
[23:40:08] <Kevin`> the psu and stepper drivers are fine. usb controller that came with mine is only useful with mach3, which works but I didn't particularly like
[23:40:39] <codepython777> I read somewhere to get a 48v supply and usb motion controller
[23:41:16] <Kevin`> it has a 40v supply, 8 more won't make a huge difference
[23:41:41] <Kevin`> unless you get a machine without one and are picking parts
[23:42:31] <Kevin`> usb motion control is not very useful with linuxcnc because it makes any control loops through the cpu impossible. recommend ethernet or pci
[23:43:43] <Kevin`> eg, when you go to add an encoder for something like rigid tapping, or directly controlled servo motors
[23:44:02] <Kevin`> or just good performing endstops =p
[23:44:54] <codepython777> Kevin`: does this even work out of the box?
[23:45:20] <codepython777> Kevin`: https://www.omiocnc.com/makerzonelist/cnc-router-for-makerzone/x6-800m-cnc-desktop-engraver.html - something like this?
[23:45:27] <Kevin`> it does (with mach3). you should still verify lubrication and such
[23:47:20] <codepython777> I heard the 4-axis version is hard to use, because of alignment issues?
[23:47:41] <codepython777> can i add the 4-axis add on later?
[23:48:18] <Kevin`> that and a lack of good free cam software for 4 axis. although if you are just indexing that's not much of an issue
[23:48:44] <Kevin`> it's just another stepper driver and the physical 4th axis, they are pretty generic
[23:50:16] <codepython777> so i can get that later - after i play with the 6040
[23:50:27] <codepython777> Kevin`: is there a reason to get shapeoko vs going for the 6040?
[23:52:51] <Kevin`> IMO no. a good 6040 has more rigid axis and regulated spindle speed, and is still cheap
[23:55:09] <Kevin`> something to remember with most of the "routers", btw. when you are cutting metals, you have to run the machine far faster than a normal mill because the spindle has low torque.. it produces it's power from spinning fast
[23:55:49] <Kevin`> make sure you *really* understand the math behind "speeds and feeds" before you run it. even with wood ideally.