#linuxcnc | Logs for 2016-11-26

[00:01:42] <tiwake> http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/b527/
[00:22:19] <Jymmm> tiwake: My flying fucks are totally free!
[00:23:14] <XXCoder> hey hey keep your flying fucks in pant
[00:23:55] <Jymmm> keep your hey out of my pants and my flying fucks
[00:24:39] <XXCoder> hey dont touch my hey
[02:34:46] <Deejay> moin
[02:52:57] <XXCoder> hey
[05:51:05] <JT-Mobile> morning
[05:53:00] <XXCoder> hey JT-Mobile
[05:53:16] <JT-Mobile> what's up?
[05:53:30] <XXCoder> having bit odd issue with printer lol
[05:53:57] <JT-Mobile> having a laptop when I'm mobile is much better than the phone lol
[05:54:27] <JT-Mobile> hows that?
[05:55:23] <XXCoder> scale issue
[05:55:34] <XXCoder> 8 mm is 7.6,m
[05:56:01] <JT-Mobile> are the belts streching?
[05:56:16] <XXCoder> nah its reasonable tight
[05:56:34] <JT-Mobile> I have that on my plasma, I have to adjust the scale to match the actual belt pitch
[05:56:55] <JT-Mobile> which is a bit longer than calculated due to strech
[05:58:10] <XXCoder> I had to use -0.12 xy comp to get parts to fit each other
[05:58:45] <JT-Mobile> you may need to adjust the scale in marlin instead
[05:59:07] <JT-Mobile> if you move 100mm does it move 100mm exactly?
[05:59:19] <XXCoder> not too sure how to calculate that
[05:59:24] <XXCoder> or find length moved
[06:00:22] <JT-Mobile> 123 block?
[06:00:58] <XXCoder> Z is simple enough, just use my dial indictor holder
[06:01:05] <XXCoder> but x and y not so simple
[06:01:16] <JT-Mobile> rotate the holder for XY
[06:01:32] <JT-Mobile> or for y mount the holder to the frame
[06:01:55] <XXCoder> ok will check that later
[09:12:49] <zeeshan> anyone up?!
[09:14:23] <Tom_L> up to what?
[09:14:40] <zeeshan> man i gotta share this with you guys
[09:14:43] <zeeshan> who don't know this already
[09:15:02] <zeeshan> i was really stunned when i found this out going through the mazak manuals..
[09:15:40] * zeeshan uploads
[09:17:35] <tiwake> dododo
[09:19:25] <zeeshan> READ THIS!!
[09:19:28] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/elHCFxI.png
[09:20:44] <Tom_L> you didn't know that?
[09:20:46] <archivist> already known about
[09:20:52] <Tom_L> haas does that also iirc
[09:20:54] <zeeshan> no i didn't!
[09:21:08] <zeeshan> i love it
[09:21:19] <archivist> so adding linuxcnc circumvents that sillyness
[09:21:36] <zeeshan> it's not silly
[09:21:42] <zeeshan> when your enemies are building nukes
[09:21:44] <zeeshan> trying to kill your people
[09:21:55] <zeeshan> i absolutely support it
[09:21:59] <Tom_L> it's so you 'don't relocate it to an illegal country'
[09:22:00] <zeeshan> they should make it a kill switch sort of deal
[09:22:02] <Tom_L> uh huh
[09:22:19] <zeeshan> you can relocate the machine however times you want
[09:22:21] <zeeshan> doesn't matter
[09:22:40] <zeeshan> it matters if it's in iran
[09:22:41] <archivist> there is a tax on moving a machine iirc
[09:22:41] <zeeshan> or syria
[09:22:42] <zeeshan> ;p
[09:22:55] <DaViruz> i'm sure the russians are perfectly capable of building nukes without japanese mills
[09:23:03] <zeeshan> it's not about russia
[09:23:06] <Tom_L> breaking news: boost of linuxcnc in hostile countries
[09:23:10] <zeeshan> it's more about third world countries :P
[09:23:19] <zeeshan> Tom_L: you need a great deal of skill
[09:23:24] <zeeshan> to install linuxcnc on a machine like this
[09:23:34] <DaViruz> oh i thought i read russia in ther
[09:23:35] <DaViruz> e
[09:23:43] <zeeshan> if someone really wants to do it, they will
[09:23:46] <zeeshan> but it's just like alarms
[09:23:52] <zeeshan> it weeds out the majority of people
[09:24:24] <archivist> those skilled in nukes will not be bothered by it either
[09:24:50] * zeeshan has been making a post processor for work
[09:24:51] <DaViruz> i'd say that is probably the smallest bump in the road possible on the road to nuclear weapons
[09:24:57] * zeeshan loves inventor HSM!!!!!!!!!!!
[09:25:10] <Tom_L> zeeshan for what machine?
[09:25:19] <zeeshan> mazak vtc-200
[09:25:37] <zeeshan> i can't go back to mastercam anymore
[09:25:46] <Tom_L> how come?
[09:25:52] <zeeshan> it's garbage
[09:26:00] <zeeshan> things take so much effort to get done in it
[09:26:23] <zeeshan> mastercam has way better dynamic tool path algorithms tho
[09:26:33] <zeeshan> they take less computation time
[09:26:47] <zeeshan> still i'll wait the extra time as long as it's easier :P
[09:27:29] <Tom_L> computation time? more efficient tool paths?
[09:27:40] <zeeshan> tool paths are very much the same
[09:27:45] <zeeshan> computation time is a lot different tho
[09:28:10] <zeeshan> also mazak's eia/iso got me a bit confused
[09:28:20] <zeeshan> g84 in linuxcnc is rigid tapping
[09:28:22] <zeeshan> automatically..
[09:28:33] <Tom_L> mastercam scratches it's head, hsm scratches it's butt
[09:28:40] <zeeshan> it's g84.1 i think in mazak
[09:28:45] <zeeshan> i'm not sure what the regular g84 is doing
[09:31:14] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/IwI81b1.png
[09:31:19] <zeeshan> ?!?!
[09:31:19] <Tom_shop> G84 Front tapping cycle
[09:31:32] <Tom_shop> http://www.helmancnc.com/mazak-g-codes-t-series/
[09:31:40] <zeeshan> i don't understand why they got 2 tapping g-codes tho
[09:31:58] <Tom_shop> possibly backward compatibility?
[09:33:11] <Tom_shop> http://victoriacaruk.com/Mazak%20EIA%20-%20Programming%20Manula%20for%20Mazatrol%20Matrix.pdf
[09:33:19] <zeeshan> i has
[09:33:47] <zeeshan> i think you're right
[09:33:51] <zeeshan> it seems like g84 lets you do various things
[09:33:59] <zeeshan> but g84.2 only lets you do sync tapping
[09:34:11] <Tom_shop> sorta like G33.1
[09:34:22] <Tom_shop> and G84 G74? in lcnc
[09:34:36] <Tom_shop> (those are being added if you don't see them yet)
[09:34:41] <Tom_shop> iirc
[09:34:55] <zeeshan> doesn't g84
[09:34:58] <zeeshan> automatically sync speed
[09:35:07] <zeeshan> i know my post for linuxcnc from mastercam uses g33.1
[09:35:08] <zeeshan> not g84
[09:35:27] <archivist> floating v rigid
[09:35:40] <Tom_shop> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gcode/g-code.html#_g84_right_hand_tapping_cycle
[09:35:45] <zeeshan> archivist: but g84 is sync'ed in linuxcnc
[09:35:46] <zeeshan> ?
[09:35:47] <Tom_shop> not implemented
[09:35:49] <Tom_shop> yet
[09:35:59] <Tom_shop> G74 isn't listed yet either
[09:36:03] <zeeshan> ah
[09:36:08] <Tom_shop> one will be right other will be left
[09:36:30] <zeeshan> that makes sense cause thats why i was using g33.1
[09:46:05] <JT-Mobile> Tom_L, can you give me a link to the log files again?
[09:46:22] <JT-Mobile> I thought I copied them to my thumb drive but the copy failed
[09:46:23] <zeeshan> http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Alt/alt.machines.cnc/2006-07/msg00043.html
[09:46:25] <zeeshan> great article
[09:46:29] <zeeshan> so linuxcnc has sync tapping
[09:46:31] <zeeshan> not rigid tapping
[09:46:37] <Tom_L> JT-Mobile the ones i gave you or the online ones?
[09:46:54] <zeeshan> i mean rigid tapping, but not sync tapping
[09:47:02] <Tom_L> i may not have kept the rar but i can upload it again
[09:48:33] <JT-Mobile> the ones you gave me so I can download them again
[09:49:06] <Tom_L> pm Tom_shop
[09:52:24] <zeeshan> finally figured it out!!!!!!!
[09:52:31] <zeeshan> g84 is RIGID tapping
[09:52:37] <zeeshan> g84.2 is SYNC tapping
[09:52:59] <zeeshan> g84 syncs the spindle to the infeed
[09:53:07] <zeeshan> g84.2 interpolates z and spindle orientation
[09:53:17] <zeeshan> g84 can overshoot, g84.2 can't
[10:01:51] <nubcake> hi
[10:02:40] <zeeshan> hi
[10:02:50] <tiwake> hi
[10:03:25] <nubcake> <insert hi here>
[10:44:30] <zeeshan> so my friend came and looked at my cnc lathe yesterday
[10:44:38] <zeeshan> we figured out the mystery hydraulic hoses
[10:44:39] <zeeshan> :D
[10:44:42] <zeeshan> they were coolant hoses!!!!!!
[10:48:36] <sync> rekt
[10:49:01] <BeachBumPete> ya know you got a badass lathe when it needs lots of coolant hoses to keep it from smokin' ;)
[10:49:16] <zeeshan> hehe
[10:49:31] <zeeshan> all the hoses are crusty
[10:49:33] <zeeshan> need to be replaced ;/
[10:49:43] <zeeshan> i've pretty much decided that i'm going through every component of the machine
[10:49:47] <zeeshan> and testing them as individual sub components
[10:49:56] <BeachBumPete> good practice
[10:50:04] <zeeshan> i'm thinking of pulling the turrett off the X slide
[10:50:19] <zeeshan> i hope i can get it aligne back again
[10:55:45] <BeachBumPete> don't they have alignement pins or something?
[10:55:52] <zeeshan> maybe
[10:55:56] <zeeshan> i haven't checked
[10:56:00] <zeeshan> i hope tha tis the case!
[10:56:02] <BeachBumPete> never had one apart so I dont know
[10:56:13] <zeeshan> i also don't know how the X axis stops from falling down
[10:56:17] <zeeshan> i haven't seen a brake yet
[10:56:57] <BeachBumPete> gotta be some kinda brake for when power is off I suppose
[10:57:06] <zeeshan> yes
[10:57:10] <zeeshan> i don't see a brake on the servo tho
[10:57:12] <BeachBumPete> I would imagine that beotch is QUITE heavy
[10:57:19] <zeeshan> hehe
[10:57:22] <sync> probably in the servo
[10:57:28] <zeeshan> sync: not in servo!
[10:57:29] <sync> doesn't have to be all that large
[10:57:37] <sync> took it off?
[10:57:41] <zeeshan> ya
[10:57:46] <zeeshan> servoi is just a dc motor
[10:58:07] <CaptHindsight> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-1-4-in-NPT-In-Line-Regulator-with-Gauge-41135HOM/205331773 isn't this just a valve with a gauge?
[10:58:40] <zeeshan> no
[10:58:45] <CaptHindsight> gate valve
[10:58:45] <zeeshan> it as an adjustment knob on it
[10:58:53] <sync> hm
[10:59:07] <zeeshan> i'm trying to finish my damn welding cart
[10:59:10] <zeeshan> so i can get frigging started
[10:59:10] <CaptHindsight> do you think it has a diaphragm?
[10:59:11] <sync> can you turn it by hand?
[10:59:17] <archivist> sort of adjustable with a valve
[10:59:20] <zeeshan> sync: no way
[10:59:21] <zeeshan> too heavy
[10:59:24] <sync> wat
[10:59:45] <zeeshan> or maybe there is ab rake engaged :)
[11:00:18] <sync> probably some hydraulic shits
[11:02:17] <CaptHindsight> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-3-8-in-NPT-Regulator-with-Gauge-24415HOM/205332108 this looks like it has a regulator with diaphragm and spring
[11:03:18] <BeachBumPete> some hydraulic shits.....priceless :)
[11:05:38] <CaptHindsight> ahh they interchange volume regulator with pressure regulators
[11:06:02] <CaptHindsight> Chinese magic
[11:08:50] <gregcnc> Zeeshan interesting on the relocation locking I also "heard" with newer machines, if you don't pay your bills they just shut them down remotely
[11:10:12] <BeachBumPete> that's a great way to get you to pay your bills... shut down the machine so you can't make any money LOL
[11:10:44] <archivist> over here that is called restraint of trade and illegal I think
[11:10:49] <gregcnc> it will probably get to to address the situation pretty quickly
[11:11:06] <BeachBumPete> not if you are unable to...
[11:11:25] <gregcnc> repo just like car
[11:11:50] <gregcnc> if you watch enough auctions, all the new machines are always gone
[11:11:57] <CaptHindsight> I wonder how big a problem it even is
[11:13:03] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: those are the only ones that the used dealers really want
[11:13:39] <CaptHindsight> they want a few 6 figure machine at a 100K discount to make their profit
[11:13:43] <gregcnc> sure, they get sold by the creditors before they sell for crap at teh auction
[11:14:59] <CaptHindsight> some were actually complaining to me some that sellers didn't want to drop their price by $100k so they were having a hard time finding machines
[11:15:19] <CaptHindsight> some that/that some
[11:15:35] <CaptHindsight> aaawwwww
[11:15:57] <gregcnc> machine dealers suck
[11:16:02] <BeachBumPete> this reminds me why I bought my machine used for cheap...
[11:16:23] <CaptHindsight> I rented space from a used cnc dealer...
[11:16:57] <CaptHindsight> they used to offer me deals on used $5k bridgeports and similar
[11:17:30] <CaptHindsight> everything was 2-3x what I could find it for
[11:17:50] <BeachBumPete> sounds JUST like a used car dealer...
[11:17:58] <gregcnc> if you need it fast, that's what you do and where they make their money.
[11:18:10] <CaptHindsight> soo sad they went out of business
[11:18:17] <gregcnc> local?
[11:18:22] <CaptHindsight> yeah
[11:19:00] <CaptHindsight> they really felt like the deals should only go their way since they were special
[11:19:20] <CaptHindsight> damned obama
[11:21:28] <gregcnc> https://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/for/5891627248.html I guess no takers at 4k or 3k
[11:21:47] <CaptHindsight> heh
[11:22:21] <CaptHindsight> the guy in the south burbs is doing the same thing with prices
[11:22:24] <dioz> i need a tig welder
[11:22:41] <gregcnc> buy one
[11:22:57] <CaptHindsight> price research on CL
[11:24:17] <gregcnc> this must be a small dealer https://chicago.craigslist.org/search/sss?userid=49583688
[11:24:49] <CaptHindsight> I've talked to him
[11:25:56] <BeachBumPete> That super spacer at 300 clams is not bad really...
[11:27:30] <zeeshan> does anyone have experience with hydraulic lathe chuck jaws?
[11:27:42] <zeeshan> if you remove the jaws can you put them back on at the same position
[11:27:47] <gregcnc> zee you bolt them to the chuck master jaws
[11:27:48] <zeeshan> the application engineer said you can
[11:28:10] <zeeshan> but all i see is these ridge type features
[11:28:23] <gregcnc> serrated
[11:28:38] <zeeshan> yes
[11:28:47] <zeeshan> how are you supposed to know what serration to put them back on!
[11:28:49] <zeeshan> theres so many
[11:29:24] <archivist> whatever suits the next job
[11:29:47] <zeeshan> i want a dedicated set of jaws for certain jobs
[11:29:55] <zeeshan> quick changer over
[11:30:20] <BeachBumPete> I need to find a quality lathe chuck with replaceable jaws so I can make lots of sacrificial jaws.. :)
[11:31:24] <gregcnc> you align the backs of the jaws
[11:31:50] <zeeshan> gregcnc: what im saying is when you try to get them back on
[11:31:55] <zeeshan> i'd prolly take a piece of whatever they were made for
[11:31:58] <zeeshan> put them around that
[11:32:01] <zeeshan> and then try to line it up
[11:32:15] <gregcnc> that works until the chuck itself is worn
[11:32:15] <zeeshan> but then you could have them offset so they're not running with the center line of the lathe
[11:32:58] <gregcnc> align them so the back of the top jaw is flush with the back of the master
[11:35:43] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/ZIczyMv.jpg
[11:35:45] <zeeshan> see what i mean?
[11:35:50] <zeeshan> you can't keep em flush
[11:35:52] <zeeshan> they're offset
[11:36:35] <gregcnc> those take pads by the way
[11:36:37] <archivist> just use a vernier so you pick the same groove
[11:36:45] <gregcnc> you're over thinking
[11:37:09] <zeeshan> i figured it'd have some line up marks or something!
[11:37:10] <zeeshan> :P
[11:37:25] <sync> pff it is not impossible :P
[11:37:56] <gregcnc> it's not model rocketry
[11:38:11] <zeeshan> http://www.kitagawa.global/en/products/power-chucks/open-centre-chucks/b-210
[11:38:14] <zeeshan> i found pdf
[11:38:15] <zeeshan> :D
[11:40:27] <gregcnc> http://www.dillonmfg.com/contents/collet_pads_jaws.asp
[11:43:18] <gregcnc> https://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/for/5881654488.html proper toolbox
[11:43:38] <zeeshan> that's really nice
[11:47:49] <gregcnc> https://youtu.be/6m8PmMQK76s?t=1m14s what a fixture for boring that cylinder
[11:52:57] <sync> that is actually suprisingly simple gregcnc
[11:58:01] <CaptHindsight> I wonder how long the crank bearings lasted?
[11:58:46] <archivist> I never saw any gaskets
[11:58:49] <CaptHindsight> I skipped around, Any mention of the brand of motorcycle?
[11:58:56] <archivist> Rover
[11:59:26] <sync> CaptHindsight: basically forever
[11:59:30] <CaptHindsight> oil was cheap back then and gaskets were expensive
[11:59:45] <sync> I still have my grandpas 1925 bike and it runs well
[11:59:49] <archivist> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rover_%28motorcycles%29
[12:00:19] <sync> or as well a 3:1 compression engine can run
[12:00:47] <CaptHindsight> I wonder what the octane was at the pumps
[12:00:53] <CaptHindsight> back then
[12:01:13] <archivist> variable quality in those days
[12:02:53] <archivist> only a few hundred miles between services where you decarbonise the head and piston
[12:05:05] <sync> I should make a new piston for it and rebore the cylinder to give it some more compression
[12:05:25] <sync> it also has an awesome reserve fuel tank
[12:05:40] <sync> the right side of the tank is not plumbed into the fuel line
[12:05:50] <sync> so you have to lay it on its left side to get another 4l
[12:06:29] <CaptHindsight> after crash reserve tank
[12:07:23] <sync> well it weighs under 100kg so pff
[12:07:34] <CaptHindsight> sync: ever measure the alignment of the case, crank etc?
[12:08:05] <CaptHindsight> was it very precise or how did they account for misalignment?
[12:08:15] <sync> yes, the crank runs true and the case just bolts together
[12:08:20] <sync> it is not located in any way
[12:09:00] <sync> but the bearings are perpendicular to the mating surfaces
[12:09:15] <archivist> I had to bump a crank to align it, crank pins are a plain press fit
[12:09:17] <codepython777> anyone can give me some input on this controller: http://www.ebay.com/itm/BLD-300B-24V-36V-48V-BLDC-Motor-Driver-300W-Brushless-Motor-Controller-for-CNC-/252340172760?hash=item3ac0a577d8:g:x6wAAOSwWfFXkELH ?
[12:09:46] <sync> yeah it is not uncommon, but mine ran well
[12:10:09] <CaptHindsight> Chinese brushless motor driver
[12:10:25] <archivist> an ESC in a box
[12:10:46] <sync> I wonder how much power I could push through the poor little engine
[12:11:00] <CaptHindsight> codepython777: like most Chinese items, it may require some mods to operate really well
[12:11:08] <sync> although it'd be pretty yolo with the wooden rear end and no springs in the rear
[12:11:13] <archivist> anteeeeek dont do that to an old bike
[12:11:13] <CaptHindsight> for a time
[12:11:51] <codepython777> CaptHindsight: I'm looking to use it for a 40v /20A bldc motor - forward/reverse. You think it will work at 500rpm?
[12:12:38] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNQ40MYwZqw I'm considering making a good sized F3T from an VMC
[12:12:57] <CaptHindsight> use it to fab old auto and motorcycle sheet metal
[12:13:26] <sync> why not archivist, it's not really valuable so pff
[12:13:30] <CaptHindsight> send us the old part or scan and fab 1-2 offs
[12:13:34] <codepython777> archivist: The problem is that I cant find ESCs at that price point for a 40v/20a config
[12:13:58] <archivist> sync, some of the old bikes go for high prices
[12:14:03] <sync> I also have a few spare engines
[12:14:08] <sync> sure but not that one
[12:14:26] <codepython777> also, regenerative - is missing in these
[12:14:38] <CaptHindsight> well $40
[12:15:01] <sync> CaptHindsight: apparently a shitty cheese mill is enough for iterative sheet forming
[12:15:39] <codepython777> CaptHindsight: do you have any recommendations for a good ESC that will do this without costing > $100?
[12:16:33] <archivist> codepython777, try it and see, then tell us if the smoke came out
[12:17:13] <codepython777> archivist: is there a way to test these at high loads?
[12:17:36] <CaptHindsight> there are a zillion hot rod shops around here, I think its rare they actually work on an old car
[12:18:31] <sync> yeah it is hard work to actually do it right
[12:18:40] <CaptHindsight> rust free shells and quarters are hard to find
[12:19:00] <CaptHindsight> and catalogs like Year One only have limited sheet metal
[12:19:41] <sync> well, in the us it is easier to find cars with acceptable rust
[12:19:48] <CaptHindsight> but if you could form new sheet metal in hours
[12:20:37] <CaptHindsight> the most difficult would be deep drawn parts like a motorcycle headlamp
[12:20:51] <CaptHindsight> but those could be made in two parts and tig welded
[12:20:59] <archivist> there is that Ford cnc forming machine on youtube
[12:21:19] <CaptHindsight> yeah, link above
[12:21:32] <CaptHindsight> or again here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNQ40MYwZqw
[12:21:47] <sync> well then you gotta have some kind of 3d scanner, although that is not that much of a problem nowadays
[12:22:18] <CaptHindsight> have a dealer network
[12:22:34] <CaptHindsight> scan the old part and upload
[12:22:38] <archivist> but they have patents!
[12:23:00] <CaptHindsight> yeah, keep the magic in a box out of sight
[12:23:04] <sync> sure but 3d scanning at decent resolutions either consumes time or costs quite a lot of money
[12:23:21] <Jymmm> There are no patents or copyights on automobile body styles
[12:23:23] <CaptHindsight> faster than fabbing by hand
[12:23:44] <CaptHindsight> probably can't sell the machines
[12:24:04] <CaptHindsight> but maybe you have 1000 elves that bang out sheet metal overnight
[12:24:27] <archivist> or..wheeling machine, hammers and dollies
[12:24:31] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wl5_wUVxRvw
[12:24:56] <SpeedEvil> 'desktop' bender would be awesome.
[12:25:29] <CaptHindsight> I haven't had tome to build one yet
[12:25:59] <CaptHindsight> some of those parts are pretty deep
[12:26:13] <sync> well, you don't really need two robots, you can apparently use regular portal machines
[12:27:00] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuR_fnZ9JvI
[12:27:30] <sync> even so, two robots in that class without controls can't be too spendy
[12:27:36] <Jymmm> Ok, so who's the first to make a sheetmetal prototype machine?
[12:28:40] <CaptHindsight> I'll have it by 5 today :)
[12:28:50] <Jymmm> just need two hexipods?
[12:29:01] <CaptHindsight> rev 1 will only do aluminum foils
[12:29:18] <Jymmm> 10mil thick
[12:29:19] <sync> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eh0ddqsx0KI
[12:29:34] <CaptHindsight> .2mil
[12:30:10] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Ok, fine. could always resin/epoxy it afterwards
[12:30:34] <Jymmm> and at .2mil, it could be a spray on coating
[12:30:45] <CaptHindsight> ^ video only applies force from one side
[12:30:53] <sync> yes, but it works
[12:31:00] <CaptHindsight> oh yeah
[12:31:34] <sync> I'm sure you have better control over the strech or something with two styli but eh
[12:31:40] <CaptHindsight> I started on a fixture for my matsuura
[12:32:07] <CaptHindsight> for smaller parts with thinner sheet
[12:32:25] <Jymmm> the spindle turned
[12:32:52] <CaptHindsight> apply force in the center of a large sheet and the whole sheet will bow
[12:33:49] <Jymmm> is he spindler turning free hand or being told to turn?
[12:34:04] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2Ntxb98-Ak
[12:34:17] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: it's probably not locked
[12:34:23] <Jymmm> k
[12:34:27] <IchGucksLive> Hi
[12:34:32] <CaptHindsight> let it spin, it had a ball on the end
[12:34:43] <IchGucksLive> raining in germany
[12:34:55] <CaptHindsight> the sun is up here
[12:35:12] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Well, I thick I want to try that is why I asked.
[12:35:18] <Jymmm> think*
[12:35:33] <CaptHindsight> hey zeeshan can I borrow your deflection measuring system?
[12:35:42] <zeeshan> $290213802139823189021
[12:35:56] <CaptHindsight> does it come with a power cord?
[12:36:00] <zeeshan> it's the universities :P
[12:36:02] <zeeshan> not mine
[12:36:12] <zeeshan> what are you tryhing to do
[12:36:25] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: watch the videos
[12:36:50] <CaptHindsight> measure deflection in the areas not being formed
[12:37:02] <IchGucksLive> Folkes is there a cheep redy made touchoff system somwhere
[12:37:06] <zeeshan> fuck someone has already done single point forming?!?! :{
[12:37:12] <zeeshan> i was hoping to make a machine!
[12:37:14] <CaptHindsight> Ford
[12:37:19] <zeeshan> yes i saw fords
[12:37:21] <zeeshan> it was stupid slow tho
[12:37:25] <IchGucksLive> the homemade workes butt it does not look 'Pro
[12:37:28] <CaptHindsight> several university projects
[12:37:57] <CaptHindsight> IchGucksLive: I imagine it depends on what tooling and machines are used
[12:38:00] <IchGucksLive> CaptHindsight: Run as far as yoiu can on INI projekt they start to pile up
[12:38:11] <zeeshan> you mean strain
[12:38:12] <CaptHindsight> assuming not using idiots to program
[12:38:13] <zeeshan> not deflection
[12:38:23] <zeeshan> deflection is an elastic phenomenon :P
[12:38:39] <CaptHindsight> no deflection, but I can just scan the parts when they are done
[12:38:51] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: if you dont ned to measure in situ
[12:38:58] <CaptHindsight> nah
[12:39:00] <zeeshan> you etch a grid pattern
[12:39:03] <zeeshan> and use matlab
[12:39:13] <zeeshan> or etch dots
[12:39:14] <zeeshan> if that is easier
[12:39:14] <Jymmm> Can't you just slice it to get multiple z layers?
[12:39:15] <CaptHindsight> if it tears you pressed too hard
[12:39:30] <zeeshan> forming is kind of confusing to me
[12:39:32] <CaptHindsight> or went too far
[12:39:46] <zeeshan> if you looking a formability limit diagram
[12:39:52] <zeeshan> you can see by changing the strain path
[12:39:54] <zeeshan> or loading type
[12:39:57] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: repcrap slicers should work
[12:39:58] <zeeshan> you can prolong facture
[12:40:42] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I suspect by the time you get to the center (XY), that it's going to be REALLY thin material though.
[12:40:53] <gregcnc> jymmm There are copyrights on body styles
[12:41:37] <gregcnc> car and aircraft manufacturers now license them to model builders, and sue if you don't
[12:41:41] <zeeshan> i really don't see these machines being used for more than prototyping
[12:41:46] <zeeshan> the whole point of sheet metal forming is to do it fast!
[12:41:50] <sync> yes, but you cannot prevent people from making spare parts gregcnc
[12:42:04] <zeeshan> sync: ofcourse you can
[12:42:06] <zeeshan> :D
[12:42:15] <zeeshan> the liability goes on them!
[12:42:20] <sync> that's illegal here :P
[12:42:24] <Jymmm> gregcnc: http://www.bitlaw.com/copyright/unprotected.html
[12:42:28] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: yeah, there are limits, so you have to plan the metal type and thickness vs the amount of forming
[12:42:53] <zeeshan> ^ its called a forming limit diagram
[12:43:12] <zeeshan> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Surajit_Paul/publication/236156408/figure/fig3/AS:299527631327234@1448424360881/Figure-3-A-schematic-plot-of-the-forming-limit-diagram-and-other-failure-limits.png
[12:43:13] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: low volume apps like auto and motorcycle restoration
[12:43:15] <zeeshan> throw that crap in cad
[12:43:20] <zeeshan> simulation
[12:43:24] <zeeshan> call it a day!
[12:43:28] <CaptHindsight> I used to restore 1973 and earlier
[12:43:29] <gregcnc> ahh jymm you are right, you can model a boeing 777,. you jsut can't market it with their name on it
[12:43:36] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: nice
[12:43:41] <zeeshan> it'd help for that weird ass piece i was making
[12:43:43] <zeeshan> for my exhaust
[12:43:53] <CaptHindsight> when you get pre 1950 there are very few remakes of parts
[12:44:20] <tiwake> remake of what? car things?
[12:44:41] <CaptHindsight> tiwake: yeah sheet metal that is long out of production
[12:44:47] <gregcnc> the incremental processes are patented though, does anyone enforce them, or has it been challenged yet?
[12:44:54] <CaptHindsight> dunno
[12:45:12] <CaptHindsight> selling machines might be an issues
[12:45:16] <CaptHindsight> -s
[12:45:20] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: was going to say... the 1911 pistol is still a top seller... heh
[12:45:35] <gregcnc> right, but in theory all you need is software and any CNC
[12:45:40] <tiwake> in the firearm category
[12:45:45] <CaptHindsight> yeah
[12:46:02] <CaptHindsight> maybe just make fixtures to hold the sheets :)
[12:46:28] <CaptHindsight> byo cnc
[12:46:37] <sync> zeeshan: machine from solid
[12:46:40] <tiwake> how was sheet metal formed back then for production purposes?
[12:46:48] <CaptHindsight> tiwake: dies
[12:47:02] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: and a big hydraulic stamp?
[12:47:03] <CaptHindsight> they still use clay to make the models
[12:47:10] <CaptHindsight> tiwake: yeah
[12:47:13] <tiwake> hmm
[12:47:32] <zeeshan> huge presses!
[12:47:50] <tiwake> yeah, it would almost be cheaper to use carbon fiber forming these days
[12:47:52] <CaptHindsight> you would want to make 1,000's of quarter panels but maybe 2 headlights 50 years past production
[12:48:00] <CaptHindsight> would/wouldn't
[12:48:01] <zeeshan> not for production
[12:48:05] <zeeshan> sheet metal is just wayyy too fast
[12:48:10] <zeeshan> you can produce 100 fenders in 1 minute
[12:48:19] <CaptHindsight> yeah it is just for low volume
[12:49:07] <CaptHindsight> I had to cut the wheel arches from a rust free arizona shell for a 15 year old car
[12:49:29] <CaptHindsight> cost me ~$200 with shipping for the pair
[12:49:43] <CaptHindsight> fabbing them would have taken days
[12:50:05] <CaptHindsight> now with incremental forming maybe an hour
[12:51:17] <CaptHindsight> Year One has a limited selection of sheet metal
[12:51:45] <CaptHindsight> but if you could scan the old rusty part and fab one in hours....
[12:52:05] <zeeshan> 3d print it!
[12:52:31] <CaptHindsight> would take more time, unless it was small and cast
[12:53:11] <CaptHindsight> this would actually be useful vs glue gun
[12:54:14] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcg08U_Y4PI
[12:55:33] <CaptHindsight> here's one from 2011 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRm2ifaUrGg
[12:56:13] <CaptHindsight> XY platform with stationary Z
[12:56:25] <CaptHindsight> moving XY
[12:57:40] <CaptHindsight> works with plastics as well
[12:58:24] <tiwake> interesting
[12:58:56] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpcigO3J_fM how long would this take to make by hand?
[12:59:07] <CaptHindsight> hammer, welding, grinding etc
[12:59:36] <CaptHindsight> I just applied for the patent to poopstarter this
[13:01:55] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJP20hcqTX0 lots of parts in this vid
[13:02:48] <CaptHindsight> hmm custom embossed phone cases
[13:02:54] <CaptHindsight> and tinfoil hats
[13:02:54] <tiwake> smearing the metal around
[13:03:21] <malcom2073_> CaptHindsight: Ford has a pretty wide patent on that process already
[13:03:38] <malcom2073_> it's how they prototype panels before making press molds
[13:03:44] <CaptHindsight> malcom2073_: yeah so selling the machines might be a problem
[13:04:01] <CaptHindsight> fixtures are another story
[13:04:31] <CaptHindsight> or turnkey software
[13:04:52] <CaptHindsight> this happened with sublimation transfer
[13:05:41] <CaptHindsight> after the patent was awarded they even went after inkjet cartridge sellers with dye sub and transfer film
[13:07:43] <CaptHindsight> https://www.google.com/patents/EP2505279A1?cl=en
[13:08:29] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: is Ford selling any incremental forming machines?
[13:08:48] <andypugh> I wouldn’t even know if they were
[13:09:18] <malcom2073_> Selling? I doubt they're selling them
[13:09:19] <CaptHindsight> just wondering, sometime they have newsletters with info like this
[13:09:45] <CaptHindsight> is anyone selling a dedicated machine
[13:09:47] <CaptHindsight> ?
[13:10:18] <CaptHindsight> https://www.google.com/patents/US3342051 oopos 1967
[13:10:23] <CaptHindsight> not really new
[13:10:57] <IchGucksLive> patents run off at 25 Year world limit
[13:11:16] <malcom2073_> But oftentimes companies can change minor wording, and get it re-applied :/
[13:11:17] <IchGucksLive> if the company does not stand for its product and rfreneuws
[13:11:28] <CaptHindsight> so now it's down the minutia in the claims and if it's been patented again, or overlapping
[13:11:29] <malcom2073_> At least in the US
[13:11:39] <CaptHindsight> IchGucksLive: the uspto is a mess
[13:11:50] <IchGucksLive> agree
[13:11:59] <IchGucksLive> TTIP also
[13:12:12] <IchGucksLive> but donald will reorder all
[13:12:24] <CaptHindsight> it's not supposed to be fair, it's supposed to favor big industry
[13:12:24] <IchGucksLive> making us great again
[13:12:30] <CaptHindsight> it;s what they paid for
[13:12:49] <IchGucksLive> World changs
[13:12:55] <CaptHindsight> IchGucksLive: can Trump run for office there?
[13:13:22] <IchGucksLive> today a job in Kuba has been freed
[13:13:26] <CaptHindsight> then he can make germany great again to
[13:13:41] <IchGucksLive> we gon angela
[13:13:49] <CaptHindsight> think so again?
[13:14:02] <CaptHindsight> hear she's running
[13:14:44] <IchGucksLive> will be a hard fight this tiome
[13:14:55] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ibf.rwth-aachen.de/en/research-development/sheet-metal-forming/incremental-sheet-forming/
[13:15:01] <CaptHindsight> ^ Germany
[13:15:10] <IchGucksLive> schultz is a realy good social men
[13:16:18] <CaptHindsight> combo of die and incremental https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liio1NwB5aw
[13:16:43] <IchGucksLive> for prototyping iand small serias
[13:17:09] <CaptHindsight> I want to remake old parts
[13:17:14] <andypugh> I tried making machinable wax today. Melting plastic bags into candle wax.
[13:17:41] <CaptHindsight> how did it go? That's really DIY
[13:17:42] <andypugh> It was, I think, a partial success.
[13:17:49] <IchGucksLive> the Automanufactiors like opel here in Kaiserslautern make roof and body in 20sec time takt
[13:18:19] <andypugh> IchGucksLive: How long to make one, from a CAD design?
[13:18:31] <CaptHindsight> I'm lazy. I'd buy both components in the right particle size and just blend them
[13:18:51] <IchGucksLive> andypugh: Opel 6Years
[13:19:21] <andypugh> The bags tend to clump up and not dissolve properly. The tric is probably actually now to machine the way and re-melt.
[13:19:32] <IchGucksLive> but as you gone need al suport and fixure on the sheet its also not that practical
[13:19:54] <andypugh> IchGucksLive: This is an overnight process: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNQ40MYwZqw
[13:21:22] <gregcnc> metal spinning in a mill
[13:21:36] <andypugh> Be warned, somebody says “this is a very unique process”.
[13:21:56] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: first patented in 1964
[13:22:19] <andypugh> Though probably not CNC then.
[13:22:23] <IchGucksLive> andypugh: agree but it is only as prototype part like 3D metal printing
[13:22:36] <sync> why not andypugh?
[13:22:42] <IchGucksLive> ok there are series of metall printer now
[13:22:48] <SpeedEvil> NC was more common than CNC
[13:22:57] <SpeedEvil> CNC was very uncommon in 64 I'd guess
[13:23:08] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: https://www.google.com/patents/US3342051
[13:23:11] <SpeedEvil> Or copy fixtures
[13:23:28] <IchGucksLive> 747 has been CNC brekthrou
[13:23:51] <IchGucksLive> bevor only Nc has been the magnetic encoders
[13:24:20] <CaptHindsight> An electrical or electronic device regulating the cross-feed control on the machine. Further improvements may be accomplished by having any or all of the variables under the guidance of numerical controls to produce practically any shape within the limits of this process.
[13:24:31] <CaptHindsight> ah hah!
[13:25:00] <IchGucksLive> Punch code on large rolls
[13:25:42] <andypugh> That patent is only for solids of revolution. and they are talking about Numeric Control, not Computer Numeric Control.
[13:25:53] <IchGucksLive> and now we are rasperry
[13:26:35] <IchGucksLive> the first PC on mashies are not bevor 1980
[13:26:42] <CaptHindsight> I wonder how many incremental forming machines they have in China
[13:27:00] <tiwake> why would you wonder about that?
[13:27:04] <andypugh> Millions.
[13:27:18] <IchGucksLive> LCNC has the UVW access for the movement
[13:27:28] <gregcnc> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWW_LnkrA-Q
[13:27:31] <andypugh> Most are hand-operated devices, though, called “hammers"
[13:27:32] <CaptHindsight> tiwake: patents schmatents
[13:28:18] <IchGucksLive> on the 0.5mm incremental you can faster mill a Mold
[13:28:50] <gregcnc> how much do mold materials cost?
[13:29:03] <sync> that depends on how long you want them to last
[13:29:09] <gregcnc> one shot
[13:29:18] <CaptHindsight> and for 1-2 offs
[13:29:20] <IchGucksLive> Duran Al 800 will hold 0.8mm Sheet for around 800 pats
[13:29:29] <CaptHindsight> where do you store them for next time?
[13:29:48] <gregcnc> that's why a machine like that does have value even if not super fast
[13:29:59] <IchGucksLive> agree
[13:30:04] <CaptHindsight> like 3d printing
[13:30:11] <CaptHindsight> depends on volume
[13:30:16] <IchGucksLive> im ooooofff Gn8
[13:30:20] <CaptHindsight> hasta
[13:31:25] <CaptHindsight> how about torch and tungsten ball tool
[13:31:36] <CaptHindsight> soften and form
[13:31:47] <tiwake> induction heat it
[13:32:04] <CaptHindsight> tool is the heater
[13:32:50] <CaptHindsight> what do you gain?
[13:33:05] <tiwake> ponies?
[13:33:07] <CaptHindsight> or it a patent end run
[13:33:43] <SpeedEvil> heating with induction heating can be much faster and more controlled as you're actually heating the work, not relying on interface thermal properties
[13:35:07] <sync> CaptHindsight: second roboter with a torch heating the back
[13:35:29] <tiwake> thats too much effort
[13:35:30] <CaptHindsight> how much time will heating save?
[13:35:42] <CaptHindsight> vs cost of heat
[13:36:05] <sync> cheaper than making molds
[13:36:38] <CaptHindsight> comparing incremental forming with and without heating
[13:36:44] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: there is probably a wider range of materials that can be formed that way if they are heated
[13:36:59] <CaptHindsight> we already know that for low volume it beats making molds
[13:37:15] <sync> hm combine that with tailored blanks
[13:37:18] <tiwake> how about amorphic sheet metal? can that be formed?
[13:37:24] <sync> and you can have the same thickness throughout the sheet
[13:37:38] <CaptHindsight> a big plus
[13:37:45] <andypugh> Little men with hammers have been making one-off shet-metal parts for thousands of years.
[13:37:54] <CaptHindsight> like hydroforming
[13:38:04] <sync> yes but that is so 2015 andypugh
[13:38:16] <CaptHindsight> too loud
[13:38:40] <andypugh> Yes, panel beating is quite loud.
[13:38:55] <CaptHindsight> I can make fenders after 10 pm without the neighbors complaining
[13:39:05] <CaptHindsight> can/can't
[13:39:55] <CaptHindsight> could automate artworks but that would be heresy
[13:40:43] <andypugh> Here is a part I made with only a hammer: http://bodgesoc.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Neracar09%20It%27s%20a%20Motor%20Bike%21
[13:40:47] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: was thinking of your near-a-car restoration
[13:41:02] <andypugh> (So was I, as you see)
[13:42:44] <CaptHindsight> guess it depends on are you restoring by hand for the pleasure of handworking it all vs pro restore shop
[13:43:34] <CaptHindsight> where people want their old car new now
[13:45:05] <tiwake> what should I do today?
[13:54:10] <CaptHindsight> https://www.wwag.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/WebSite.woa/wa/DirectAction?action=forceEnglish&page=!29754 what size press do you need to form these?
[13:56:15] <CaptHindsight> they average ~$400 ea
[13:57:08] <andypugh> You can spin headlights. I did.
[14:02:38] <CaptHindsight> wheel arches, motocycle fuel tanks, fenders would need to be formed
[14:03:45] <Frank_6> hi guys
[14:03:57] <CaptHindsight> with car restoration there are all sorts of sheet metals parts that are out of production
[14:08:25] <CaptHindsight> http://images.apwcontent.com/is/image/Autos/c013703_is?wid=250&hei=250&DefaultImage=noimage always parts like these that rust away
[14:09:18] <CaptHindsight> http://www.gill-industries.com/images/automotive/AutoGalleryImageC3-2A.jpg
[14:13:20] <Frank_6> i've decided my motors dillema, ill be going with my servos on X and Y and a stepper on the Z axis, with ofcourse the counterweight
[14:19:36] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: The answer is Lycra Reinforced Plastic
[14:19:53] <DaViruz> binky :)
[14:19:58] <pcw_home> and tea
[14:20:26] <CaptHindsight> oh like my yoga pants :)
[14:21:14] * Jymmm hides behind pcw_home from CaptHindsight
[14:21:31] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: TMI Dude, TMI
[14:21:54] <Jymmm> hahahahaha
[14:24:27] <andypugh> Frank_6: This was a Plasma. right?
[14:24:37] <Frank_10> cncrouter
[14:24:59] <Frank_10> im on the last 2 months of construction; hopefully
[14:24:59] <andypugh> So why stepper-Z?
[14:25:08] <CaptHindsight> dc servos with drives he's had difficulty tuning?
[14:25:18] <Frank_10> its only 150mm travel
[14:25:40] <CaptHindsight> oh that was someone else
[14:25:53] <Frank_10> mostly because i save 800bucks usd
[14:26:21] <Frank_10> besides; 1kw servomotor for the z seems too much
[14:26:58] <bpuk> probably just a little
[14:28:42] <sync> then just use a smaller one
[14:29:10] <Frank_10> not available
[14:29:28] <Frank_10> 500w servos arrive in febreruary; need them now
[14:29:33] <andypugh> You might want to look at the hybrid closed-loop steppers for Z
[14:30:09] <Frank_10> i ill look around but there is not much offer here
[14:30:45] <Frank_10> im only looking for .1 or .2 precision
[14:31:00] <Frank_10> or repeteabilitt
[14:33:15] <Frank_10> Guys; i need an opinion from you; im asking because you have much more experience than i do on machines and life; heres the deal; im living on an appartment thats connected to my shop; its 2000sq feet
[14:34:02] <Frank_10> do you think its possible for me to have lets say 3 cnc machines beeing used by the same person ?
[14:34:59] <Frank_10> i would like to automatize as much as posible; i will be making mirror frames; wood panels; wall decor etc
[14:36:41] <sync> it is possible but it is not a nice job
[14:36:51] <Frank_10> why sir
[14:38:02] <tiwake> Frank_10: I've ran 4 CNC machines at the same time before...
[14:38:16] <Frank_10> the machines would be on long cycles;
[14:38:16] <tiwake> its not hard if there is a long cycle time in a couple of them
[14:38:23] <Frank_10> hehe
[14:38:31] <andypugh> I have run 2 manual machines once or twice, but only on hobby-stuff.
[14:38:37] <Frank_10> at least in 2 yes
[14:38:38] <tiwake> and if deburring is kept to a minimum
[14:38:48] <tiwake> andypugh: thats asking for it
[14:38:50] <tiwake> lol
[14:38:51] <Frank_10> where they will be 3d carving or some stuff
[14:39:14] <tiwake> andypugh: I've seen people running one manual lathe and have it feed-crash into the chuck...
[14:39:36] <tiwake> like threading feed rates
[14:39:42] <andypugh> tiwake: Yes, defintely not something you would want to be doing all day, every day.
[14:39:48] <Frank_10> the idea is to have 1 big machine and 2 or 3 small ones to do the small studd
[14:40:12] <sync> well depending on your cycle times you spend a lot of time hustling to get parts in and out Frank_10
[14:40:20] <Frank_10> the files will be triple checked before anymachine is left alone
[14:40:38] <sync> and I'm not sure how much money there is left in that market
[14:40:52] <Frank_10> im in argentina
[14:41:28] <Frank_10> and i work with a chain of decor shops
[14:41:50] <Frank_10> why you think there is not much more money in that area
[14:44:31] <sync> because a lot of people are trying what you are trying
[14:44:47] <zeeshan> get er done
[14:45:15] <zeeshan> Frank_10: you can do it
[14:45:20] <zeeshan> just got to do it!
[14:47:29] <Frank_10> at least here i havent seen any nice work on the furniture/decoration area
[14:48:23] <zeeshan> Frank_10: what i've learned from life is
[14:48:28] <zeeshan> you can sit there and contemplate on what to do
[14:48:34] <zeeshan> all the people that i've seen that have suceeded
[14:48:40] <zeeshan> ended up just doing it.
[14:49:35] <Frank_10> totally
[14:49:41] <CaptHindsight> Frank_10: use what you have and learn from it
[14:50:21] <CaptHindsight> if it's a choice between cnc parts and food, still buy food though
[14:50:55] <Frank_10> lol
[14:50:55] <zeeshan> can't wait to get the damn cnc lathe running
[14:51:01] <zeeshan> i can run most of the jobs without me even being there
[14:51:45] <Frank_10> you are on linuxcnc or you have a propierltary controller
[14:51:51] <zeeshan> linuxcnc
[14:52:14] <Frank_10> you do that for a living?
[14:52:22] <zeeshan> no
[14:52:23] <zeeshan> part time
[14:53:36] <Wolf_> food is overrated, case of ramen noodles and buy cnc parts
[14:53:56] <sync> https://www.dropbox.com/s/9j9x38tsfovaove/IMG_0991.MOV?dl=0 need to get one of those too then zeeshan
[14:54:21] <zeeshan> :P
[14:54:36] <CaptHindsight> steppers with pasta, couplings with lathe gravy
[14:56:18] <Frank_10> dont forget to throw in some chips on top
[14:57:10] <gregcnc> mini automated production line www.ebay.com/itm/252653576067
[14:57:31] <CaptHindsight> thats perfect
[14:58:35] <CaptHindsight> how did all the tool holders get so rusty?
[14:58:56] <CaptHindsight> http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/s20AAOSwj85YONZR/s-l1600.jpg
[14:59:05] <CaptHindsight> now I don't them
[14:59:10] <CaptHindsight> +trust
[14:59:34] <CaptHindsight> family photos are included
[15:00:17] <gregcnc> that' been on CL for a month
[15:02:09] <CaptHindsight> probably from somewhere else
[15:03:45] <gregcnc> probably from the school auction
[15:51:39] <Frank_10> anyone has any experience with XL timing pulleys? im trying to gear down my servomotor 3:1b but with theL pitch; its kinda unpractical;
[15:57:37] <DaViruz> i use XL belts for the spindle motor on one of my mills
[15:57:50] <DaViruz> actually a servo motor
[16:25:26] <Deejay> gn8
[16:37:14] <andypugh> Frank_10: Which continent are you on?
[16:37:38] <andypugh> Have you considered the T-family of belts? (T10, T5, T2.5)
[16:39:24] <Frank_10> south america; those are the metric equivalents with a little variation on the gripping right? or they have another pro
[16:40:12] <Jeebiss> Hey guys, is there a preferred room for Mach3 related questions? I cant seem to find one using google-fu.
[16:45:37] <Frank_20> andypugh: sorry timed out
[16:46:12] <andypugh> Jeebiss: We can answer all your questions. Unfortunately every answer will be “Use LinuxCNC instead” so perhaps might not be as helpful as you hoped :-)
[16:46:48] <andypugh> Jeebiss: You might have to use their forums or mailing list (assuming they exist)
[16:47:44] <bpuk> the machsupport forums are at: https://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php
[16:48:25] <Jeebiss> Ah, thanks for the link. Ill check that out, I was hoping for some irc action but ill settle for forums haha
[16:48:29] <bpuk> if it's a simple question some of us may be able to help, but as andy pointed out - we're mostly familiar with linuxcnc here ;)
[16:48:51] <andypugh> Jeebiss: I see you already tried diycnc :-)
[16:49:03] <bpuk> #join #mach3
[16:49:05] <bpuk> gah
[16:49:13] <Jeebiss> ALready tried that too haha
[16:49:20] <bpuk> wow! that is a dead chat ;)
[16:49:24] <andypugh> If there is such a channel, it’s not on freenode
[16:49:52] <Jeebiss> the only one google serves me is some equally dead one on an unfamilar irc network
[16:50:05] <andypugh> Jeebiss: Whule you are here, you might as well ask the question.
[16:50:33] <andypugh> Worst case we say “sorry, not a clue”
[16:51:01] <Jeebiss> Basically it seems like the DROs on Mach3 are counting differently than they should.
[16:51:43] <Jeebiss> I have Mach3 set to MMs as the native unit, and even just simply zeroing my X axis and running it to the other side doesnt count anywhere near the actual distance in MMs.
[16:52:27] <bpuk> sounds like a scaling issue. Things to check (engages brain). Steps/unit in Motor Tuning
[16:52:27] <Jeebiss> My machine is a bit crude, but its somewhere near 350mm of travel from the 0 point, Mach3 reads 45 units on the main DRO
[16:52:36] <Wolf_> sounds like steps per rev are off
[16:52:54] <Jeebiss> Roger that, let me try recalibrating that
[16:53:32] <bpuk> also, use linuxcnc ;)
[16:53:39] <Jeebiss> Haha
[16:53:58] <Jeebiss> Honestly if I wasnt just beginning to get the hang of Mach3, I would
[16:54:07] <Jeebiss> But I dont know if my brain can handle another learning curve
[16:54:32] <andypugh> Factor of 7.77. If it was exactly 8 I would suspect the microstep setting of the drives does not match the setting in Mach.
[16:54:47] <andypugh> also, use LinuxCNC
[16:55:06] <bpuk> honestly - you're still welcome here even if you're using mach. I ran dual-boot for a while on the router depending on the program I was running
[16:55:30] <Jeebiss> andypugh: My measurement are not super precise, it could be a factor of 8
[16:55:46] <Jeebiss> bpuk: Good to know, some channels are more receptive to outsiders than other.
[16:56:10] <bpuk> the next questions are - what do you have in steps/unit? what pitch are your screws/rack, what level of microstepping do you have on your drives? do you have any additional gearing?
[16:56:13] <Jeebiss> I have my controller set to 1/8 stepping
[16:56:37] <andypugh> Jeebiss: Mach might need to know that
[16:57:09] <Jeebiss> I think this is definitely the issue, let me try recalibrating and report back
[16:57:28] <Jeebiss> I am using 3/8" all thread which I think is 24tpi
[16:57:46] <andypugh> We are like the Scientologists, we act friendly to try to drag you in. Next thing you know you will be still (barely) awake at 4am building a custom Linux kernel in the hunt for 100nS less latency...
[16:57:48] <Jeebiss> This is a very early prototype, so its crude
[16:58:15] <Frank_20> lol
[16:58:27] <Jeebiss> Yeah, my steps per rev values in Mach3 dont make sense
[16:58:30] <Jeebiss> I think thats my issue
[16:58:50] <Wolf_> andypugh speaks the truth… that does happen
[16:59:15] <andypugh> Start crude and cheap. Your first machine will be a learning experience, and nearly every choice you make will be wrong. Make them cheap choices.
[16:59:34] <SpeedEvil> http://spritesmods.com/?art=jello3dprinter
[16:59:41] <andypugh> Wolf_: Well, that’s more a generic Linux thing.
[16:59:46] <Wolf_> lol
[16:59:59] <Jeebiss> andypugh: Yep, thats the game plan
[17:00:02] <bpuk> 3/8" could be 16 (UNC, BSW), 19 (BSP), 20 (BSF), 24 (UNF), 26 (BSB)
[17:00:16] <Jeebiss> Im like 90% confident its 24
[17:00:17] <Frank_20> lets make like i havent read that andy; i still havent finished my first one;
[17:00:24] <bpuk> I'm sure I've missed some, but those are the ones I can remember
[17:00:31] <Wolf_> I think I originally came here to get a idea of what the software does, ended up with a converted x1 mill a week later
[17:00:39] <andypugh> But, only because you _can_ make your particular Linux better for you. I am sure that Windows fans would be just the same if it was possible.
[17:00:40] <Jeebiss> According to the auto calibration in mach3, I need to use 125 steps per mm, does that seem reasonable?
[17:01:23] <Jeebiss> It was set to 2000
[17:01:31] <Jeebiss> lol
[17:01:37] <sync> what steps/rev do your steppers have
[17:01:51] <bpuk> if you're near the machine - try it (with one hand over the e-stop)
[17:02:05] <Frank_20> im up 10k in and still havent finished
[17:02:08] <Jeebiss> Uh, im not entirely sure, I have had them sitting around for ages
[17:02:25] <andypugh> bpuk: 3/8 UNC 0.375 9.525 16 1.588 0.298 7.577 0.038 0.974
[17:02:25] <andypugh> 3/8 WHIT 0.375 9.525 16 1.588 0.295 7.493 0.04 1.016
[17:02:27] <andypugh> 3/8 BSF 0.375 9.525 20 1.27 0.311 7.899 0.032 0.813
[17:02:28] <andypugh> 3/8 ADM 0.375 9.525 24 1.058 0.3216 8.17 0.0267 0.678
[17:02:30] <andypugh> 3/8 SPARK 0.375 9.525 24 1.058 0.3209 8.15 0.0271 0.687
[17:02:31] <andypugh> 3/8 UNF 0.375 9.525 24 1.058 0.324 8.227 0.026 0.649
[17:02:32] <andypugh> 3/8 BRASS 0.375 9.525 26 0.977 0.3258 8.275 0.0246 0.625
[17:02:33] <andypugh> 3/8 CEI 0.375 9.525 26 0.977 0.334 8.484 0.0205 0.521
[17:02:34] <Frank_20> wtf
[17:02:45] <bpuk> ok, I missed a couple - what the heck is SPARK?
[17:02:53] <andypugh> Spark plug
[17:02:57] <bpuk> ah-ha
[17:03:10] <bpuk> you did miss BSP though ;)
[17:03:13] <andypugh> I have never seen one, but apparently they exist
[17:03:19] <Jeebiss> These are the ones I am ussing,
[17:03:19] <Jeebiss> http://www.omc-stepperonline.com/nema-23-cnc-stepper-motor-28a-126nm1785ozin-23hs222804s-p-108.html
[17:03:41] <bpuk> 1.8 deg - 200 steps per rev
[17:04:01] <Jeebiss> Right, times 8 though with microstepping?
[17:04:06] <andypugh> 3/8 BSP is 0.656 diameter
[17:04:10] <Frank_20> :O
[17:04:18] <Frank_20> my identity has been stolen
[17:04:24] <Frank_6> who are you!?
[17:04:33] <Frank_20> bad joke
[17:04:36] <DaViruz> let's be frank
[17:04:40] <Frank_6> lol
[17:05:13] <Jeebiss> Looks like that adjustment solved my problem!
[17:05:20] <bpuk> excellent :D
[17:05:28] <bpuk> now to lure you away from the dark side ;)
[17:06:08] <Wolf_> least with linux cnc you can find support :P
[17:06:21] <Jeebiss> That is a solid selling point
[17:06:37] <bpuk> might be worth looking at for your next machine :D
[17:06:43] <Jeebiss> But I just got mach3 atleast halfway functional
[17:06:54] <Jeebiss> bpuk: Its on the considerations list
[17:06:58] <t12> https://holidayhole.com/
[17:06:59] <Wolf_> though, I haven’t ever needed to ask anything in here for the software, usually could find the question via google + forums
[17:07:49] <Jeebiss> HMmmm
[17:07:54] <Jeebiss> Now my motors move real slow
[17:08:12] <Jeebiss> But my DROs have what seem to be the correct values
[17:08:36] <Wolf_> step two of setup, probably setting feed rates
[17:08:39] <bpuk> ok, you'll need to adjust your velocity (I can't remember if accelleration is in there)
[17:08:51] <Wolf_> ^ what he said
[17:09:20] <Jeebiss> Yep, im playing with vel/accel now
[17:09:24] <bpuk> I switched over when I decided I needed closed loop feedback - keeping on the same steppers and drivers it pushed me up another 40% on feedrate and 60% on accel
[17:09:29] <bpuk> what do you have in there atm?
[17:09:52] <Jeebiss> 120/4
[17:09:57] <Jeebiss> vel/accel
[17:10:18] <Jeebiss> which i assume is the default as I never messed with these.
[17:11:12] <bpuk> can't remember accel off the top of my head - I'd try about 2k vel based on what you've told us
[17:11:20] <DaViruz> t12: i find the $7200 /hr interesting
[17:11:54] <Jeebiss> bpuk: at 2000/40 the motor binds up after like 3 rotations
[17:12:14] <Jeebiss> 1500 seems to work though
[17:12:18] <andypugh> Jeebiss: Is this a mill/router ir a lathe? There probably isn’t much to choose between LinucxCNC and Mach for a stepper-mill or stepper-router, but LinuxCNC is better for lathes in quantifiable ways (which is why Tormach switched when they made a lathe)
[17:12:32] <Jeebiss> Techincally a mill
[17:13:31] <bpuk> if the motor is stalling, drop your accel a bit
[17:13:43] <bpuk> it's more likely that it's stopping on accel than max velocity
[17:13:45] <DaViruz> andypugh: in what ways?
[17:14:01] <DaViruz> spindle sync motion?
[17:14:23] <Jeebiss> bpuk: even as low as 5 accel it stalls
[17:15:07] <Jeebiss> 1250 seems to be the winning velocity
[17:15:16] <Jeebiss> im uping the accel as we speak
[17:16:21] <Jeebiss> 1250/45 is where i am getting no stalling
[17:16:45] <Jeebiss> scratch that 1250/40
[17:16:48] <andypugh> DaViruz: Yes, LinuxCNC makes threads better. Especially on weak lathes where the speed might vary during the cut,
[17:16:51] <Wolf_> keep in mind tool load when setting that
[17:17:06] <andypugh> DaViruz: Also, real rigid tapping
[17:17:24] <bpuk> great :) next thing to test is to check you aren't losing any steps - you'll probably find out during cuts. Check all the parts you make dimensionally at first until you're confident you're not losing any
[17:17:57] <Jeebiss> that test is probably a ways away, i need to refine my construction for any sorts of consistency.
[17:18:11] <Jeebiss> but thank you all for the help thus far
[17:18:22] <bpuk> (if you find you're losing steps in one direction only - check if your output to the drive is active high or active low - I spent _weeks_ finding that one)
[17:18:23] <Wolf_> http://i.imgur.com/uRt1WRZ.jpg cnc scribble works nice for testing lol
[17:18:32] <Jeebiss> one more quick question, all the motors should have the same vel/accel amounts?
[17:18:33] <bpuk> :D
[17:20:22] <Wolf_> other test I did was scale + center pointer http://i.imgur.com/uZwaxOl.jpg
[17:21:53] <Jeebiss> She is definitely working faster with these nrew refinements.
[17:22:11] <Jeebiss> With much closer DRO readings
[17:23:19] <bpuk> might need to tweak the steps/unit a couple more times with more accurate measurements
[17:23:52] <bpuk> sticking a scriber/pencil in the spindle helps. put a ruler on the table, zero the axis at 0 on the ruler. move a known distance and check
[17:24:10] <Jeebiss> Yeah, thats roughly what I did
[17:24:29] <Jeebiss> I think im headed the right direction now, much appreciated.
[17:26:26] <bpuk> no problem, if you've got any other problems, come and ask - as mentioned above, we can't always help, but it's worth asking
[17:28:01] <Frank_20> http://m.imgur.com/P0pPOh8 live from here
[17:28:29] <Jeebiss> Haha, with my new settings is draws slow as shit and sounds like a 1st grade bass orchestra trying to play beethoven
[17:29:16] <Jeebiss> What exactly determines how fast each path is followed/
[17:29:20] <Jeebiss> ?**
[17:29:32] <bpuk> feedrate specified in the file - for drawing try about F500
[17:29:38] <bpuk> should be on the first G1 line
[17:32:17] <dioz> sup snitches?
[17:32:19] <bpuk> if you can't find it - pastebin the g-code file you're using and we'll point it out
[17:33:48] <Wolf_> after a while of referencing g-code it gets pretty easy, I’ll often drive my mill by feeding the thing g-code from the keyboard
[17:34:45] <andypugh> Jeebiss: The step scale should _not_ be something you tweak. If it isn’t a simple factor of microstep / thread pitch / 200 (steps per rev) and pulley ratio then something is wrong somewhere.
[17:35:51] <Wolf_> ^ plus check for backlash in the system as well that can mess up measurements
[17:36:46] <Jeebiss> bpuk: feed rate was really slow, adjusting it helped
[17:38:41] <bpuk> out of curiosity - what materials are you planning to cut with this?
[17:39:25] <Jeebiss> To be entirely honest, itll do no cutting
[17:39:38] <bpuk> oh?
[17:39:59] <Jeebiss> The end version of the monstrosity will scoop ice cream out of a cabinet as a gimmick
[17:40:13] <Wolf_> lol
[17:40:14] <Jeebiss> Currently its shittily drawing stuff with a sharpie
[17:40:44] <bpuk> fair enough :D
[17:40:47] <Jeebiss> let me give you guys a good laugh and snap a picture
[17:41:01] <bpuk> ok. you've found the perfect machine to run on mach3 ;)
[17:41:20] <Jeebiss> told you i chose correctly!
[17:41:28] <Jeebiss> (no i didnt, but ill take it)
[17:42:04] <Jeebiss> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/ILKejeob/20161126_181236.jpg
[17:42:12] <Jeebiss> Oh hey, that was cool
[17:42:16] <andypugh> I disagree, it would be trivial to define the scoop speed by ice-cream temperature with LinuxCNC in the HAL layer, but tricky with Mach.
[17:42:20] <Jeebiss> I just pushed it from my phone, didnt know i could do that
[17:42:46] <bpuk> lmao at andypugh - worst thing is I know you're being entirely serious
[17:43:16] <Jeebiss> temp and consistency will be mostly constant for this
[17:43:23] <Jeebiss> its all premade bulk shit
[17:44:00] <Jeebiss> (btw, you can see the ice cream cabinet under the mdf haha
[17:44:02] <Jeebiss> (
[17:44:02] <bpuk> do you have a lasercutter Jeebiss?
[17:44:18] <Jeebiss> bpuk: no, but the university 5 minutes away has a couple monster ones I use
[17:44:20] <andypugh> I think it would have to run on a Pi to get the simple 1-wire sensor interface for ice-cream temperature.
[17:44:29] <Frank_20> we need an app to control our cncmachines with the phone
[17:44:39] <Frank_20> :D
[17:44:39] <bpuk> ah-ha - that explains the motor mounts
[17:44:49] <Jeebiss> Saving some bucks
[17:44:58] <Jeebiss> I have like 100 bucks in all my materials at this point
[17:45:11] <Jeebiss> My buddy is letting me use his mach3 license for the time being
[17:45:28] <Jeebiss> That will double my prototype cost if i bite that bullet
[17:45:49] <bpuk> I'm curious - what is the BoB you're using?
[17:46:05] <Jeebiss> bob?
[17:46:09] <bpuk> (and 'Use LinuxCNC' - no licence costs)
[17:46:15] <Wolf_> break out board
[17:46:23] <Jeebiss> Oh, some no namer crap from amazon
[17:46:26] <bpuk> Breakout board - the red thing with the big heatsink
[17:46:31] <Wolf_> looks like one of those all in one things
[17:46:37] <Jeebiss> its a tb6560 chip
[17:46:45] <Jeebiss> Wolf_: ding ding ding
[17:47:04] <Jeebiss> this project wont require too much in the was of precision in its final form
[17:47:09] <Jeebiss> way*
[17:47:15] <andypugh> OK, a warning. Never, ever, disconnect a motor with the TB6560 powered up.
[17:47:23] <Jeebiss> andypugh: roger that
[17:47:43] <andypugh> They will blow, and they are a bugger to desolder and replace
[17:48:03] <Jeebiss> at that point id buy another one of these boards
[17:48:07] <Jeebiss> i think it was like 50 bucks
[17:48:14] <Jeebiss> not worth the time to troubleshoot
[17:48:29] <sector_0> which accelerates faster, a stepper or a servo?
[17:48:38] <andypugh> In fact the reason I moved off of my cheap Chinese TB6560 was when the pads started to come off the board on the second replacement.
[17:49:18] <Jeebiss> Hmmm so it looks lie I have another issue
[17:49:30] <Jeebiss> my image seems to get bigger as it draws it
[17:49:54] <andypugh> sector_0: I would normally say “it depends” but given that you can buy a 10kW servo and you can’t get a stepper > 400W…
[17:50:28] <Jeebiss> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/lw7IFUbR/irccloudcapture-160442652.jpg
[17:50:47] <sector_0> andypugh, so "generally" servos accelerate faster?
[17:50:54] <Jeebiss> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/wgrUWJYE/irccloudcapture1817989135.jpg
[17:51:29] <Jeebiss> You can see the difference from the gcode to the actual drawing
[17:51:30] <bpuk> sorta - for very low mass, steppers can accellerate faster for the same power input
[17:51:38] <Jeebiss> What would potentially cause that?
[17:51:43] <bpuk> Jeebiss: backlash
[17:51:50] <Jeebiss> that dramatically?
[17:51:59] <bpuk> probably 50% of it
[17:51:59] <Jeebiss> im sure i have a decent backlash amount
[17:52:03] <Jeebiss> Hmmm
[17:52:06] <Jeebiss> Interesting
[17:52:12] <bpuk> try it without _any_ backlash setting
[17:52:23] <Jeebiss> oh, there is a setting for that
[17:52:24] <Jeebiss> ?
[17:53:06] <bpuk> there is - but I can't remember for the life of me where it is on mach
[17:53:23] <Jeebiss> Ill hunt it down
[17:53:30] <andypugh> sector_0: No, it just isn’t that simple.
[17:53:39] <bpuk> sector_0: since steppers have crazy torque at 0-1 rpm
[17:54:19] <bpuk> and it's complicated when you run steppers as a high pole count servo (as per andy's comment t'other day)
[17:54:48] <andypugh> If you can say what mass you want to accelerate to what speed….
[17:55:08] <Jeebiss> AH, they hid it under config -> backlash
[17:55:09] <Jeebiss> sneaky
[17:55:26] <bpuk> Jeebiss: who would ever think to look there
[17:55:28] <Jeebiss> everything is set to 0
[18:00:04] <bpuk> turn it up a little and try again (a little being 0.5 or so)
[18:00:34] <bpuk> or measure your backlash (put the ruler on the table, move a known distance, then move back a bit. measure the difference)
[18:01:55] <Wolf_> distance set on both axis right
[18:01:59] <Jeebiss> Hahah you are really giving this machine a lot of credit
[18:02:29] <Jeebiss> I turned my feed rate down and it seemed to solve the issue
[18:04:00] <bpuk> mind posting your code?
[18:04:34] <Jeebiss> Im editing it as we speak, let me run another test firt
[18:04:35] <bpuk> wondering is it's a G61 issue
[18:24:06] <bpuk> any better?
[18:29:49] <bpuk> also frank_N - glad you decided on what you're doing - shame to waste servo's that size :)
[18:33:14] <Jeebiss> bpuk: Yeah, its doing as well as Id hope it would in this state
[18:33:24] <Jeebiss> Im just tweaking stuff here and there, so far so good
[18:37:43] <bpuk> you know we want a video of it throwing ice cream right?
[18:37:45] <Jeebiss> Small design question, in a CAD program, how do I make text that is only 1 pass and not an outline?
[18:37:59] <Jeebiss> Everything I try ends up being an outline.
[18:38:15] <Jeebiss> bpuk: Ill keep you guys updated
[18:38:32] <Jeebiss> I still need to figure out a lot of stuff for my Z axis
[18:38:34] <bpuk> err... which cad program
[18:38:46] <bpuk> and how are you getting it to the machine (cam?)
[18:38:58] <Jeebiss> Well, I have CorelDraw and CamBam
[18:39:09] <Jeebiss> /LazyCam
[18:39:57] <andypugh> Jeebiss: You need “stroke fonts”
[18:40:04] <Jeebiss> Ooooh
[18:40:43] <Jeebiss> aptly named onelinefonts.com seems to be my go to
[18:44:38] <andypugh> Jeebiss: Just get Fusion360. It’s Autodesk trying to bully everyone else out of the market by being free and excellent, and I hate that.But it _is_ free and it _is_ excellent at CAM.
[18:45:30] <Tom_L> is that considered a love hate relationship?
[18:45:57] <JT-Mobile> lol
[18:46:09] <andypugh> I guess so.
[18:46:16] <bpuk> heh. I picked up HSMWorks last week (the free version) - so much better then spending 2-3 hours laying out a trochoidal toolpath by hand
[18:46:24] <bpuk> any shiny cam is good :D
[18:47:13] <Jeebiss> Fusion360 is free?
[18:47:18] <Tom_L> zeeshan's been raving about hsm
[18:47:45] <Tom_L> Jeebiss, free for hobbyists and small business'
[18:47:53] <Jeebiss> Ah, interesting
[18:48:02] <andypugh> Fusion 360 is free for hobbyists or any company making less than $100k per year directly from the spftware.
[18:48:03] <Tom_L> 64bit required
[18:48:15] <Tom_L> but that's pretty much true with all of em nowdays
[18:49:00] <Jeebiss> How does this differ from AutoCad?
[18:49:04] <bpuk> HSMWorks is technically free, but it requires a solidworks seat - which is not cheap. it's another autodesk product
[18:49:17] <Jeebiss> So many programs
[18:49:19] <Jeebiss> x_x
[18:49:48] <bpuk> autocad will allow you to draw, fusion360 is a 3d modelling program with integrated CAM - allowing the full design->program in one program
[18:49:50] <Tom_L> solidworks is dassault, hsm may be acad
[18:50:12] <Jeebiss> BUt isnt AutoCAD really expensive?
[18:50:19] <Tom_L> they all are
[18:50:32] <Tom_L> catia is $75 k
[18:50:43] <Jeebiss> Why would they then give Fusion360 out for any sort of commercial use?
[18:50:50] <Tom_L> but you don't have to get the whole thing
[18:50:53] <Jeebiss> I dont really follow.
[18:51:04] <Tom_L> market share
[18:51:23] <Tom_L> somebody else has it and they want it?
[18:51:32] <bpuk> solidworks cost about £6k for a 'standard' seat this year, approx £2k maintainance
[18:51:36] <Wolf_> retail seat for solid works basic isn’t too bad, like $10k
[18:53:15] <Jeebiss> Yeah, that all sounds pretty bad lol
[18:53:40] <Tom_L> get a student id
[18:53:51] <Jeebiss> I have one
[18:54:05] <Tom_L> you can likely get it for alot less
[18:54:11] <Tom_L> may be somewhat crippled
[18:54:30] <Jeebiss> It just seems odd that AutoDesk makes so many similar programs
[18:54:36] <Tom_L> catia student gives you the basics
[18:54:39] <Tom_L> nothing fancy
[18:54:41] <bpuk> not really, they've bought most of them
[18:54:45] <Jeebiss> But I know nearly nothing about any of them, so I am probably very wrong
[18:55:34] <Tom_L> alot of small shops use mastercam
[18:55:59] <Jeebiss> hows that differ from fusion?
[18:56:11] <bpuk> I use solidworks/Camworks for legacy parts. Solidworks/HSMworks for new parts. Vectric Aspire for wooden carving. Haven't tried fusion360 but it looks nice
[18:56:12] <Wolf_> http://i.imgur.com/O9FpvqG.png … its still on sale for a few more days
[18:56:18] <Tom_L> i haven't used it but i hear it's not nearly as streamlined
[18:57:31] <Jeebiss> This already looks complicated and out of my leauge hehe
[18:57:34] <bpuk> alas, I've never used Catia - but heard good things about it
[18:57:35] <Jeebiss> this should be interesting
[18:57:48] <Wolf_> I need to try fusion360
[18:57:56] <Jeebiss> Im out for the night, thanks for all the info guys
[18:57:58] <Tom_L> bpuk catia is for large business
[18:58:00] <Jeebiss> happy holidays
[18:58:20] <Tom_L> similar to solidworks in many ways
[18:58:26] <Tom_L> more robust
[18:58:56] <bpuk> *shrug* we have two aerospace companies as part of our group. Catia isn't exactly unavailable - but all the legacy data is in solidworks
[18:59:04] <Tom_L> for a long time it didn't have cam but now it does
[18:59:17] <Tom_L> yeah
[18:59:38] <Tom_L> that's about all there is around here is aerospace
[19:00:14] <bpuk> I make drinks dispense equipment, solidworks is good enough ;) but inflexible sometimes
[19:00:15] <Tom_L> boeing (spirit now), beech, cessna, bombardie / learjet
[19:00:23] <bpuk> complex curves are a bit awkward
[19:01:10] <Tom_L> and a slew of vendors supporting them
[19:01:32] <Tom_L> makes getting scrap very easy
[19:01:56] <bpuk> I'll maintain my view that writing efficient trochoidal toolpaths by hand is _hard_
[19:02:04] <bpuk> and should be left to computers
[19:09:00] <bpuk> but since I can't get a decent toolpath for this part out of either HSMWorks or Aspire... *mutter*
[19:21:11] <bpuk> ok. that looks good. time to order some 0.1mm cutters
[19:28:47] <JT-Mobile> trying to code python on windblows sucks
[19:30:29] <bpuk> aieee! python! _run away_
[19:30:49] <XXCoder> must be windows suer
[19:31:51] <JT-Mobile> I have a windoze laptop for PLC and HMI programming
[19:33:11] <Jymmm> JT-Mobile: Why not a VM?
[19:33:50] <JT-Mobile> reading up on that now, no CD's with me so I can't do a dual boot here
[19:34:19] <Jymmm> no need to DUAL BOOT, you run the VM on the host machine (linux or whatever) concurrently
[19:35:54] <JT-Mobile> the only problem I'm having is with paths and windblows
[19:36:13] <Jymmm> how so?
[19:36:44] <JT-Mobile> windows messes with them and nothing works that would work in linux
[19:36:56] <Jymmm> are you using things like "Desktop" or "home folders" ?
[19:37:05] <JT-Mobile> no
[19:37:18] <JT-Mobile> os.path.getcwd()
[19:37:30] <JT-Mobile> os.path.isfile()
[19:37:55] <Jymmm> What are those from? Some script?
[19:38:08] <JT-Mobile> python
[19:39:13] <Jymmm> try os.getcwd()
[19:40:19] <Jymmm> Personally, I would never code on M$
[19:40:20] <JT-Mobile> yea that's what I meant
[19:40:40] <Jymmm> k
[19:40:43] <JT-Mobile> hey I'm out of town and this is what I got so I'm stuck with it
[19:41:15] <Jymmm> linux fits on a usb thumbdrive
[19:41:31] <Jymmm> and is bootable too =)
[19:41:41] <JT-Mobile> usb drives come in many sizes...
[19:41:46] <Jymmm> so?
[19:41:56] <Jymmm> 1gb is what I have around here mostly
[19:42:16] <XXCoder> I still have 64 mb ones lol bought em for $1 :P
[19:42:31] <XXCoder> I used em a lot as "no loss file give to teacher"
[19:42:38] <XXCoder> since retired but yeah
[19:43:00] <Jymmm> Also, EXCELLENT for disaster covery
[19:43:06] <Jymmm> recovery*
[19:43:13] <XXCoder> yeah that was later use
[19:43:18] <XXCoder> not now though
[19:44:02] <Jymmm> I reoccmend that EVERYONE have at least one of these on a usb stick https://www.system-rescue-cd.org/SystemRescueCd_Homepage
[19:44:18] <Jymmm> it doens't matter what os/distro you use either
[19:44:28] <JT-Mobile> hmm the usb drive in my pocket has 500mb free
[19:44:29] <Jymmm> M$/linux/osx/bsd/etc
[19:45:01] <Jymmm> MAJOR CYA ---> https://www.system-rescue-cd.org/
[19:45:08] <bpuk> JT-Mobile: That could be taken two ways. My main NAS array has 500Mb free
[19:46:25] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Even if you have an old version of RescCD, it's well worth having ready if ever needed.
[19:46:51] <Jymmm> XXCoder: https://www.system-rescue-cd.org/Sysresccd-manual-en_How_to_install_SystemRescueCd_on_an_USB-stick
[19:47:07] <Jymmm> You can recover files from a failing hdd
[19:47:41] <JT-Mobile> ok, the usb drive has 1.4Gb free now
[20:00:29] <Tom_L> JT-Mobile, working on the bot code?
[20:01:08] <JT-Mobile> yea, trying to lol
[20:02:40] <JT-Mobile> trying to polish it up but the work I did so far is at home lol
[20:03:47] <Jymmm> JT-Mobile: I suggest that you install knoppix to a usb drive you can carry with oyu and boot from, then make is a persistent install... https://www.pendrivelinux.com/knoppix-linux-live-cd-and-usb-flash-drive-persistent-image-how-to/
[20:04:15] <Jymmm> JT-Mobile: That will allow you to save settings on it
[20:04:30] <Jymmm> ...and not just a "LiveUSB".
[20:05:12] <Jymmm> Knoppix does a VERY VERY god job of hardware detection, far better than debian or ubuntu ever has.
[20:05:17] <Jymmm> good*
[20:05:42] <Jymmm> even though knoppix is debian based.
[20:06:16] <JT-Mobile> says you need two flash drives... I only have one in my pocket
[20:07:00] <Jymmm> Where? I've only know it to need two PARTITIONS, not two drives.
[20:07:24] <Jymmm> oh, I see it now.
[20:07:38] <JT-Mobile> For Knoppix 5.3.1 running from USB, you will need to use a second flashdrive to store the persistent image, since the entire drive your running from is mounted.
[20:09:43] <Jymmm> current is v7.xx
[20:10:03] <Jymmm> you have a 2gb drive?
[20:10:12] <JT-Mobile> yea, but it's not empty
[20:10:41] <Jymmm> k
[20:10:52] <Jymmm> maybe for soemthing when you get home
[20:11:29] <JT-Mobile> yea
[20:11:46] <Jymmm> Just create two partitions, one for the distro to boot from, the other for your data and "saved settings"
[20:13:36] <Jymmm> JT-Mobile: http://knopper.net/knoppix/knoppix771-en.html
[20:14:57] <XXCoder> Jymmm: yeah need newer version
[20:15:15] <XXCoder> knoppix is god okay
[20:15:18] <XXCoder> ;)
[20:15:38] <Jymmm> For a portable distro, it's great.
[20:16:20] <Jymmm> For an everyday distro, not so much.
[20:16:34] <bpuk> XXCoder: How dare you call upon false idols. LFS is god ;)
[20:16:46] <XXCoder> lol ok
[20:17:06] <Jymmm> Also good if you have rat bastards... err stupid autocorrect... I mean "adorable off spring of youth".
[20:17:29] <JT-Mobile> no one but me to touch my collection of PC's
[20:17:30] * Jymmm bitchslaps bpuk with ZFS
[20:17:46] * Jymmm drops mic
[20:17:54] <bpuk> huh? ZFS is a filesystem. LFS is a distro
[20:17:57] <malcom2073_> mmmm zfs
[20:17:58] <bpuk> no comparison
[20:18:05] <malcom2073_> LFS is not a distro, it's a hobby.
[20:18:15] <XXCoder> I got idea from star trek mirror universe pain remote and made it so the closer people unauthorized to my computer, the more pain they feel
[20:18:20] <malcom2073_> Jymmm: I hear linuxzfs is getting pretty decent, almost stable
[20:18:35] <bpuk> I'll stick with BSD for ZFS thanks
[20:18:37] <Jymmm> malcom2073_: is it still via FUSE ?
[20:18:44] <malcom2073_> Jymmm: No, kernel module now, it's a proper FS
[20:18:52] <Jymmm> version?
[20:18:58] <malcom2073_> Dunno
[20:19:01] <Jymmm> heh
[20:19:23] <XXCoder> kernel PI - that version never ends
[20:19:39] <malcom2073_> I thought 3.19 was the one that won't end
[20:20:04] <Jymmm> malcom2073_: not kernel version, ZFS version
[20:20:15] <malcom2073_> Jymmm: Dunno.
[20:20:17] <XXCoder> I was one whos joking about kernel version
[20:20:28] <malcom2073_> Jymmm: Don't even know if it's even version compatible
[20:20:56] <Jymmm> malcom2073_: IT's not THAT type of version, but featureset I was inquiring about.
[20:21:21] <XXCoder> https://youtu.be/vGZX6iqwHs4
[20:21:31] <malcom2073_> Typically you refer to ZFS featureset by version, and I don't know of linuxzfs follows that
[20:21:57] <malcom2073_> You could probably find the answer on google pretty fast
[20:22:00] <malcom2073_> likely faster than I
[20:22:00] <malcom2073_> :)
[20:22:11] <malcom2073_> I was just commenting that zfs was supposed to be an option now
[20:22:13] <malcom2073_> for linux
[20:23:07] <XXCoder> thats so funny
[20:23:59] <Jymmm> YEAH BABY!!! bitches wanna fuck with me???? Eat shit ya bastards!
[20:24:13] <andypugh> Night all
[20:24:18] <Jymmm> gnight andypugh
[20:24:52] <malcom2073_> XXCoder: That's foul....
[20:25:00] <Jymmm> I swear Apple has becomes a dictatorship.... you will have it the Apple way...
[20:25:17] <XXCoder> not till there is Apple Day
[20:25:32] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Every day is Apple Day
[20:25:38] <XXCoder> lol
[20:25:55] <malcom2073_> Jymmm: That's like the people who whine that microsoft is a monopoly
[20:26:05] <XXCoder> they was for while
[20:26:08] <XXCoder> more or less
[20:26:23] <Jymmm> malcom2073_: Windows... the oldest and most profitable virus in history.
[20:26:26] <malcom2073_> Less
[20:27:13] <XXCoder> more
[20:27:22] <Jymmm> I have a certain methodology I use and has CYA on many occasions. I just contonue to use it though Apple has changed.
[20:30:01] <Jymmm> Apple's TimeMachine (backup) is a great thing. If you laptop was stolen, you could buy a brand new machines and restore EVERYTHIGN the way you had it in ~40 minutes.
[20:30:35] <malcom2073_> Apple has done good things in terms of backup. It's possible to do similar things, but certainly not as easy
[20:31:28] <Jymmm> The thng that *I* do is create two partitions on the TimeMachine (backup) hdd; one fothe OS installer (which is bootable and has disaster utilities), and the backup partition.
[20:32:40] <Jymmm> The bootable partition is just like having the original installer. So if you are missing a file or need to bare boot, you can easily enugh.
[20:34:13] <Jymmm> malcom2073_: It's that "not as easy" part the reason way ppl dont have backups much of the time. and the RECOVERY is a gawdsend... not JSUT your data, but the entire OS, your apps, and even where the icons are on your desktop to an empty hdd in ~40 minutes all hands off.
[20:34:30] <malcom2073_> Yep. The worst part of any backup system is people
[20:34:38] <Jymmm> yep
[20:34:40] <XXCoder> heh I remember this story
[20:34:48] <XXCoder> one guy was tired of long backups
[20:34:53] <XXCoder> so he changed script
[20:34:57] <XXCoder> it was LOT faster
[20:35:04] <XXCoder> so it worked for couple years
[20:35:11] <XXCoder> till fire took out the server
[20:35:19] <Jymmm> I just finished installing OSX 10.11.4 on a ext hdd, and booted form a 8+ year old mac
[20:35:21] <XXCoder> they then found out tape is blank
[20:35:30] <XXCoder> since it was well over a year ALL tapes was blank
[20:35:59] <XXCoder> business data was lifeblood to that company'
[20:35:59] <Jymmm> UL Rated fireproof safes are vERY VERY good things.
[20:36:14] <XXCoder> I stress "was" because business closed down soon after.
[20:36:19] <XXCoder> indeed jymmm
[20:36:40] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Offiste backups in case of natural dissater WAY ACROSS THE COUNTRY
[20:37:00] <XXCoder> that wouldnt work. they cycle across a year. it was over a year
[20:37:03] <XXCoder> so all blank
[20:37:19] <XXCoder> daily weekly monthly and yearly cycles
[20:37:28] <Jymmm> You offsite within 100 miles, then 500, then 1000
[20:37:31] <XXCoder> very heavy protection. bypassed by that idiotic IT operson
[20:37:43] <Jymmm> IF the cycle was a year, yeah well, he was a dumbass
[20:37:57] <XXCoder> indeed
[20:38:08] <Jymmm> Hell, even my own backups I rotate between multiple media as best as I can
[20:40:01] <malcom2073_> At my last job I was IT, and was in charge of doing backups and makign sure things were saved, etc etc. I called up a buddy who works there, he says they've shut the system down and have no backups anymore
[20:40:01] <malcom2073_> haha
[20:40:21] <malcom2073_> Bet I get a call in the next year or two asking "hey, how do we restore a backup?"
[20:40:32] * XXCoder facepalms
[20:40:45] <XXCoder> malcom2073_: $100,000 a hour consult to tell them they fail.
[20:40:55] <XXCoder> try to work for full hour before confirming their dumbasses
[20:40:59] <XXCoder> *dumbness
[20:40:59] <malcom2073_> XXCoder: I should
[20:41:07] <Jymmm> It's not backups that are the issue, it's that nobody ever RESTORES from the backups on a regular basis to test them
[20:41:13] <malcom2073_> Unfortunatly they already wanted me to come back for some side stuff, but it's conflict of interest so I can't
[20:41:20] <malcom2073_> Jymmm: +1
[20:41:25] <XXCoder> jy thats why I like linux backup, it does monthly restore test
[20:41:28] <malcom2073_> First thing I did once I set it up: Set up a test system "blown away" and restore
[20:41:33] <malcom2073_> I used to do that once a month
[20:42:24] <Jymmm> XXCoder: What is "linux backup" ?
[20:42:42] <XXCoder> dunno what its really called
[20:43:08] <XXCoder> it has no "help" "about XXXXX"
[20:43:25] <XXCoder> I hate it when they dont have name somewhere
[20:46:23] <Jymmm> You gotta love it.... plug in the newly partitioned hdd, TM asks "Do you want to use the olddtm drive? The new one? or both?" Both please, tyvm =)
[20:46:25] <Jymmm> OH...
[20:46:55] <Jymmm> but I forgot to rename it, so stops TM, renames the bakcup partitin, starts TM, and it detects the change for me =)
[20:48:21] <Jymmm> TM and Target mode were the version reasons I switched to OSX.
[20:48:29] <Jymmm> s/version/very/
[20:48:41] <gregcnc> https://images.craigslist.org/01111_cEkujb43ABk_1200x900.jpg rotary table seems a bit large
[20:49:45] <XXCoder> greg rhats good for pie cutting
[20:49:51] <XXCoder> like this https://youtu.be/vGZX6iqwHs4 but milling
[20:51:16] <gregcnc> if he used gravy media..... he's onto something
[20:52:28] <XXCoder> yep lol
[20:55:24] * JT-Mobile gives up and calls it a night
[20:55:39] <XXCoder> on what JT-Mobile
[20:56:41] <JT-Mobile> getting linux to run on my windblows laptop
[20:56:54] <XXCoder> was it windows 10 laptop?
[20:56:58] <XXCoder> aka it come with 10?
[20:57:17] <XXCoder> because if I recall microsft uses secure boot that dont allow you to install linux
[20:58:19] <JT-Mobile> windows 7
[20:58:36] <XXCoder> mnot it then
[21:01:54] <JT-Mobile> mnot?
[21:02:20] <XXCoder> not
[21:06:15] <malcom2073_> Most linux distros support secureboot
[21:06:24] <XXCoder> oh they do now
[21:06:29] <malcom2073_> That being said, it is possible for manufacturers to lock a system to only Windows
[21:06:39] <malcom2073_> But I've yet to actualy see that implemented
[21:07:45] <XXCoder> lol other channel says use pumpkin spice as abasive
[21:07:55] <XXCoder> (waterjet on cutting turkey and pie)
[21:08:06] <malcom2073_> I still say that's gross heh
[21:08:19] <malcom2073_> I've seen waterjet water tanks, they don't smell uh... like something I'd put near my mouth :)
[21:08:24] <XXCoder> heh well time to go laters
[21:08:35] <XXCoder> yeah I notice they dont eat anything
[21:08:47] <malcom2073_> On the bright side: 99% of the way to getting my 3d printer working again
[21:08:55] <XXCoder> what was wrong
[21:09:01] <XXCoder> doh gonna go laters
[21:09:07] <malcom2073_> Catch you later
[21:13:30] <malcom2073_> Now to start the joys of re-calibration
[21:21:28] <Jymmm> malcom2073_: I recommend starting any calibration with a blowtorch and 20lb sledge hammer
[21:22:17] <malcom2073_> Hah, this thing prints beautifully once I get it reconfigured. I had wiped the settings to use the chip on another board, so I gotta go back and try to remember what everything was set to
[21:22:42] * Jymmm laughs at malcom2073_
[21:25:33] <malcom2073_> Laugh it up furrball, it's making me money :-P
[21:26:06] <Jymmm> malcom2073_: Dude, rdiff-backup is your friend http://rdiff-backup.nongnu.org/
[21:26:45] <malcom2073_> I use rsync with zfs snapshots
[21:26:48] <malcom2073_> Same effect
[21:27:15] <malcom2073_> But in this case, this was before I started being serious about backups
[21:27:15] <Jymmm> then why do you need to "remember" previous settings biotch ;)
[21:27:23] <Jymmm> uh huh....
[21:27:34] <malcom2073_> That, and I had moved to linuxcnc for everything 3d printing, so I had assumed I'd not be using this again
[21:27:41] <malcom2073_> That didn't work out, so I'm back to this :-P
[21:28:08] <Jymmm> cough*BULLSHIT*cough
[21:30:44] <malcom2073_> You're just trolling me, but ok :)
[21:32:11] <malcom2073_> I do want to go back to using machinekit now that they've got it figured out and working... I will have to once I get my second printer set up since it's too high mass to use reprap firmware.
[21:32:33] <malcom2073_> But this one is flimsy enough that it works good with marlin
[21:36:56] <Jymmm> Not torlling, but come on, if you have a backup system, unless you ran out of space, there is no reaosn NOT to backup
[21:37:17] <Jymmm> and even then, delete the oldest stuff to make room
[21:45:49] <Cromaglious_> raining...
[21:46:32] <Cromaglious_> was just at Costco.. 4TB usb drives $120USD
[21:55:48] <Jymmm> A few of these would be nice... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822235121
[21:56:39] <Wolf_> i think i’ll stick with my plan for a 4tb x5 raid 6 NAS
[21:57:17] <Jymmm> a NAS does not a backup make.
[21:57:47] <Jymmm> Unless you have two+ NAS distributed in multiple locations
[21:57:56] <Wolf_> yeah, but backups on usb drives that like to randomly die doesn’t help either
[21:58:54] <Jymmm> You use multiple drives bought at seperate times/lots
[22:00:36] <Wolf_> I’m not worried about distributed backups, I’m sure if my house gets wiped out by a meteor I won’t care that my backup is wiped out
[22:14:06] <CaptHindsight> Wolf_: I'd be dead and pissed!
[22:14:16] <Wolf_> lol
[22:14:39] <BeachBumPete> evening folks
[22:14:49] <CaptHindsight> wassappining?
[22:15:17] <BeachBumPete> eh not much went kayak fishing yesterday and spent most of today putting up christmas lights..
[22:15:42] <BeachBumPete> also finally got a new Christmas tree for a reasonable price :)
[22:15:58] <CaptHindsight> todays lesson, no matter many different size fitting and adapters you have for you air lines you will still need something from the store
[22:16:00] <BeachBumPete> Got some more work done on the VMC power wiring
[22:16:27] <Jymmm> did you lick it?
[22:16:32] <BeachBumPete> yup I have a large assortment of air fittings but I never seem to have the one I need
[22:16:35] <Wolf_> CaptHindsight: hydraulic fittings are even worse
[22:16:40] <zeeshan> FINMALLY
[22:16:42] <zeeshan> goddamn cart is done
[22:16:56] <BeachBumPete> what cart?
[22:16:58] <CaptHindsight> BeachBumPete: you were saying that prelit trees over 6ft are >$200
[22:17:00] <zeeshan> weld cart
[22:17:08] <BeachBumPete> yeah I know man
[22:17:24] <BeachBumPete> but my wife had a 20 percent off coupon from Home depot
[22:17:34] <BeachBumPete> and we went there to get some more electronics schtuff
[22:17:50] <CaptHindsight> I ended up getting a 4 drawer tool chest with wheels as my TIG cart
[22:17:54] <BeachBumPete> and they had a nice 9foot prelit tree on sale for 175 bucks
[22:18:10] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: your new cart is your new tree? HAWT DAMN!
[22:18:17] <CaptHindsight> since there are no carts that hold 330u ft tanks
[22:18:33] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: mine is cover with car stickers as well
[22:18:40] <Jymmm> WOOHOO
[22:18:49] <CaptHindsight> like I'm 9
[22:18:57] <BeachBumPete> my tig unit IS its own cart LOL and it holds the 330 bottle nicely :)
[22:19:40] <CaptHindsight> BeachBumPete: have a pic or link to the model?
[22:20:09] <BeachBumPete> of the christmas tree?
[22:20:19] <CaptHindsight> or the welding cart
[22:20:29] <BeachBumPete> we just put it up LOL
[22:20:34] <BeachBumPete> which one?
[22:20:34] <CaptHindsight> I'm easy
[22:20:46] <BeachBumPete> still gotta decorate it
[22:20:48] <CaptHindsight> more interested in the cart
[22:20:54] <BeachBumPete> its not a cart
[22:21:00] <CaptHindsight> but tree pics are always welcome :)
[22:21:08] <BeachBumPete> its an L-tec Tig unit
[22:22:00] <BeachBumPete> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/attachments/f12/38226d1316034669-l-tec-250-hf-square-wave-ac-dc-tig-arc-welder-0914111641b.jpg Looks kinda like this one
[22:23:37] <CaptHindsight> http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=37661186 got one similar for far less
[22:24:14] <BeachBumPete> far less than what?
[22:24:24] <CaptHindsight> $300
[22:24:41] <BeachBumPete> ah OK
[22:25:05] <CaptHindsight> BeachBumPete: is you L-tec an inverter or a transformer type?
[22:25:13] <BeachBumPete> transformer
[22:25:18] <BeachBumPete> its an old beast
[22:25:26] <BeachBumPete> but it works really nice
[22:25:35] <BeachBumPete> its VERY heavy
[22:25:37] <CaptHindsight> weighs more than the 330 cu ft cylinder
[22:25:46] <BeachBumPete> yeah WAY more
[22:26:09] <CaptHindsight> my 200A inverter is ~50lbs
[22:26:25] <Wolf_> my tig is way lighter then the 330cu ft bottle...
[22:26:26] <BeachBumPete> yup the inverters are very light now
[22:26:33] <CaptHindsight> and I rarely push more than 40A
[22:26:39] <zeeshan> beastttt
[22:26:45] <BeachBumPete> my machine is like 350 amps
[22:27:01] <Wolf_> 200A, 45lbs
[22:27:13] <CaptHindsight> 330 cu ft Argon refill is $41 now
[22:27:38] <CaptHindsight> Wolf_: Everlast?
[22:27:49] <Wolf_> miller 200DX
[22:27:57] <BeachBumPete> WOW thats cheap
[22:28:17] <BeachBumPete> I was paying almost a hundred in Tennessee
[22:28:25] <CaptHindsight> BeachBumPete: exchange price with my own tank
[22:28:42] <BeachBumPete> should not matter whose tank it is..
[22:28:46] <CaptHindsight> was wondering what others pay
[22:29:12] <CaptHindsight> most places near me will not refill a 330 unless you have a contract with their tank
[22:29:28] <CaptHindsight> 70/yr + refills
[22:29:43] <zeeshan> http://imgur.com/a/RjDFD
[22:29:45] <zeeshan> scroll to bottom
[22:29:46] <zeeshan> :D
[22:29:52] <zeeshan> i love going from cad to real life
[22:29:58] <BeachBumPete> I rented my bottle from them in Tn...
[22:30:10] <zeeshan> it's funny how the real life thing changes a bit in comparison to cad :P
[22:30:30] <Wolf_> my place is $70/2yr for tank lease
[22:30:38] <zeeshan> wtf
[22:30:41] <zeeshan> i pay 60 bux a year
[22:30:41] <zeeshan> ;[
[22:30:52] <zeeshan> and i had to sign a 5 year lease!
[22:30:53] <BeachBumPete> That looks pretty nice Zeeshan
[22:31:00] <zeeshan> dude i'm so happy
[22:31:06] <BeachBumPete> I signed a 5 year lease for 250
[22:31:06] <zeeshan> finally everything is on ONE cart
[22:31:07] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: which everlast is that?
[22:31:09] <zeeshan> it was so annoying
[22:31:25] <Wolf_> looks good zeeshan, except them odd color welders
[22:31:25] <zeeshan> power plasma 50
[22:31:43] <CaptHindsight> I have a transformer type Plasma
[22:31:51] <CaptHindsight> gotta weigh 300lbs
[22:32:00] <XXCoder> mission successful
[22:32:01] <zeeshan> Wolf_: i'm cheap :P
[22:32:06] <Wolf_> :D
[22:32:13] <zeeshan> i don't plasma cut a lot
[22:32:14] <XXCoder> 2 new pants shirts and some food. only 12 casualities
[22:32:18] <BeachBumPete> I need to get a plasma unit
[22:32:22] <zeeshan> but today i was cutting 1/8 sheets
[22:32:26] <zeeshan> and i realized that the faster i move
[22:32:29] <zeeshan> the better the cut i got
[22:32:48] <zeeshan> makes sense cause whenever i see cnc plasmas cutting, they're moving pretty fast
[22:33:00] <Wolf_> yeah, the feed charts with the plasmas isn’t a suggestion
[22:34:02] <Tom_L> zeeshan, been loafing all day ehh?
[22:34:04] <CaptHindsight> https://surplex-res.cloudinary.com/images/c_fit,d_no_image.png,f_auto,h_700,q_80,w_940/i_00926022/THERMAL_DYNAMICS_Pak_5XR_Mobile_Welder.jpg
[22:34:22] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: that is a monster
[22:34:22] <zeeshan> lol
[22:34:29] <zeeshan> Tom_L: im a slacker :P
[22:34:46] <Wolf_> hah, I have one of them plasmas at the 2nd shop
[22:35:02] <Wolf_> I still need to see if it even works, was a auction pickup
[22:35:10] <Tom_L> you didn't put proper weld fillets in the models!!
[22:35:12] <CaptHindsight> Wolf_: same
[22:35:22] <XXCoder> no, THIS is welded monster https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/0c/48/a5/0c48a5caabb023ea0600a99a18a4c199.jpg
[22:35:24] <BeachBumPete> thats probably a very good machine..
[22:35:52] <CaptHindsight> aaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
[22:36:05] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: cut it out!
[22:36:09] <XXCoder> lol
[22:36:28] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: did you make that?
[22:36:50] <XXCoder> nah i can weld as well as I can jump 20 feet
[22:36:56] <XXCoder> *up
[22:36:59] <CaptHindsight> I see those at art fairs
[22:37:09] <CaptHindsight> $200
[22:37:36] <CaptHindsight> think the market is pretty saturated though
[22:37:46] <CaptHindsight> not much call for lawn monsters
[22:38:08] <XXCoder> yeahn more specialized market the easier to fill market
[22:38:17] <Jymmm> XXCoder: I like the monster, reminds of the RAID Bug spray commercials
[22:38:54] <XXCoder> LOL http://img06.deviantart.net/2dd1/i/2004/06/d/3/welding_monster.jpg
[22:39:46] <Wolf_> my setup for the last 12 yrs or so http://wolfmetalfab.com/pics/weldingcart/IMG_0075.JPG
[22:40:16] <zeeshan> you got too much space :P
[22:40:30] <Jymmm> I traded in my Nitrogen40 plus an Acetalene40 (expired) and got a Nitrogen80 tank for the cost of normal gas exchange. Did I fuck up by chance?
[22:40:35] <Tom_L> zeeshan you need to powdercoat it now
[22:40:44] <zeeshan> nahh man
[22:40:50] <zeeshan> my weld table i've had for 12 years
[22:40:53] <zeeshan> still no rust :P
[22:41:11] <BeachBumPete> ah man shoot some paint on that beotch ;)
[22:41:19] <Tom_L> miller blue
[22:41:26] <zeeshan> right now focus is LATHE!!!
[22:42:05] <BeachBumPete> not if you spent the day welding on your kart :)
[22:42:07] <zeeshan> Wolf_: how thick can you weld with your mig?
[22:42:16] <zeeshan> steel
[22:42:38] <Wolf_> I’ve done 1/2”
[22:42:45] <zeeshan> single pass?
[22:42:49] <Wolf_> I think its rated to 3/8
[22:43:25] <Wolf_> its a miller 210
[22:48:01] <Wolf_> yeah, 3/8 rated, I haven’t had any 1/2” plates fall off any of the trucks yet though
[22:48:07] <zeeshan> :D
[22:48:17] <zeeshan> you can always multiple pass
[22:48:49] <Wolf_> yeah, most things are T joints, no butt welds
[22:49:23] <Wolf_> plus I almost never bevel things (bad welders lol)
[22:49:30] <zeeshan> hah
[22:49:38] <zeeshan> well as long as you leave a gap
[22:49:39] <zeeshan> its ok
[22:49:53] <zeeshan> most of the time you don't even need to do that :P
[22:52:15] <Wolf_> yeah, I’ve seen worse welds on other upfitters stuff
[22:53:02] <Wolf_> I really need to rebuild my spool gun
[22:53:16] <zeeshan> at work
[22:53:23] <zeeshan> im amazing by the kind of stuff they weld
[22:53:26] <zeeshan> like 2" thick plate
[22:53:30] <zeeshan> to 1" plate
[22:53:31] <zeeshan> lol
[22:53:41] <zeeshan> its nuts
[22:53:58] <zeeshan> whats wrong with the spool gun
[22:54:16] <Wolf_> won’t feed correctly half the time
[23:50:10] <XXCoder> D: https://youtu.be/hERkhqsIAns
[23:57:08] <Wolf_> oops