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[01:06:14] <rue_house> quick, someone give me a decimal between 0 and 1
[01:06:32] <rue_house> ....?
[01:06:39] <rue_house> cmon...
[01:07:01] <Wolf_> 0.125
[01:07:02] <rue_house> anyone?
[01:07:11] <rue_house> fraction .125
[01:07:11] <rue_house> Best Match for 0.125000, is 1/8 (0.125000)
[01:07:11] <rue_house> Error is 0.000000
[01:07:41] <rue_house> :) wrote a new util, finally I can work out what a rod prolly is by close measurements
[01:07:56] <Wolf_> too easy. 0.035
[01:08:06] <rue_house> fraction .035
[01:08:06] <rue_house> Best Match for 0.035000, is 1/32 (0.031250)
[01:08:06] <rue_house> Error is 0.003750
[01:08:24] <rue_house> ;)
[01:08:30] <archivist> .should do number/letter sizes!
[01:08:33] <Wolf_> nice lol
[01:08:40] <rue_house> hah, thanks
[01:08:46] <archivist> and metric
[01:08:59] <rue_house> I have a chart I can go search if I want
[01:09:17] <rue_house> suppose I could put it in
[01:09:41] <rue_house> but I dont have all the 0.1 metric increments, so it gets trickey
[01:09:47] <Wolf_> i have a few, I think I have a phone app that has some number/letter drills to decimal and metric
[01:10:26] <rue_house> me and one of the guys who used the shop made a chart thats got, in size order, all the number, letter, imperial, and metric sizes
[01:10:45] <rue_house> from 80 to 1"
[01:10:50] <Wolf_> I did that once, took up too much wall lol
[01:11:01] <rue_house> its just 2 8.5x11 pages
[01:11:16] <rue_house> the first page prettymuch covers up to 1/2", which is about all I use
[01:11:27] <Wolf_> oh mine was readable from 5 feet away :P
[01:11:32] <rue_house> :0
[01:11:39] <rue_house> :)
[01:12:15] <rue_house> shop needs speech recognition
[01:12:31] <Wolf_> mine needs heat
[01:12:57] <rue_house> mines well insulated, a few computers keep it warm
[01:13:14] <rue_house> jukebox, file server, and 3 workstations
[01:13:17] <Wolf_> overnight temp 29F
[01:13:26] <rue_house> ... and the laptop for the sherline...
[01:14:29] <rue_house> I have armyofevilrobots' cnc on loan :)
[01:18:09] <rue_house> thanks for helping my play with my new toy!
[02:29:55] <Deejay> moin
[05:26:12] <jthornton> morning
[05:28:10] <malcom2073_> Morning
[05:28:10] <XXCoder> hey jt
[05:28:21] <XXCoder> someone designed a inductor mount for our machines!
[05:28:45] <XXCoder> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1903408
[06:07:48] <enleth> fun fact: a HSS t-slot mill turned out to be a very effective improvised face mill for small brass parts
[06:09:22] <SpeedEvil> Tools are great, but they can't read the label on what they're supposed to be.
[06:31:47] <enleth> they can't change their rake and relief angle to suit the cut either
[06:31:55] <enleth> and both of those were 0 in this case
[06:32:11] <enleth> which is why I'm mildly surprised that it worked so well
[06:32:14] <archivist> tool and cutter grinder says they can!
[06:32:25] <enleth> well, not dynamically
[06:32:37] <archivist> brass is usually nice to machine
[06:32:40] <enleth> if your tool changes the angles dynamically, you have tool integrity problems
[06:32:59] <archivist> except... naval brass
[06:33:12] <XXCoder> and brass balls
[06:33:27] <enleth> archivist: I guess it helped that it's self lubricating, so 0 relief wasn't such a problem because it could slide well over the already cut material
[06:34:47] <archivist> drilling brass is less funny, we would stone the rake a bit
[06:35:38] <enleth> I just renamed the "dull drill bits" bin to "brass drill bits", kinda effective on both counts
[06:37:19] <SpeedEvil> :)
[06:43:36] <XXCoder> lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6iN6VTL7v8
[06:43:44] <XXCoder> each time they say bee it goes faster
[06:43:53] <XXCoder> so whole movie is just 7 minutes
[06:44:13] <XXCoder> there bee many bees
[07:39:43] <tiwake> https://www.pcper.com/news/Displays/Dells-New-30-4K-120Hz-UP3017Q-OLED-Monitor-Coming-Soon
[07:41:26] <tiwake> I need an OLED screen to be about $2,000 for me to consider it
[07:45:17] <SpeedEvil> tiwake: I can sell you a 2" $2000 OLED.
[07:45:31] <SpeedEvil> $3000 if you haggle.
[07:46:08] <Spida> :-)
[07:46:09] <Jymmm> tiwake: I can sell you a < 1" $4000 OLED + FREE SHIPPING
[07:46:33] <Jymmm> tiwake: Click here ---> [BUY IT NOW]
[07:49:57] <tiwake> heh
[07:50:40] * archivist adds purchase tax and delivery charge
[07:51:49] <Jymmm> Damn Brits, always trying to tax everything! Didn't we dump a bunch of tea into the harbor in protest at one time?
[07:51:50] * tiwake takes off to go to work
[07:58:01] <gregcnc> 55" oled cost 1800usd?
[08:17:49] <Jymmm> Great beat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_hdJU-tK8o
[08:18:59] <gregcnc> that dudes hair....
[08:19:20] <Jymmm> Yeah, cause I can HEAR his hair.
[08:31:41] <CaptHindsight> my sound is off, is that what that is?
[08:32:22] <CaptHindsight> wasn't he in the Matrix?
[08:38:54] * Jymmm sighs, I bet y'all could fsck up a wet dream... I say "great beat" and what I hear is about hair and no sound. Pretend that it was a mp3 and that there was nothing to see, but only listen to.
[08:39:49] <gregcnc> eh it was better than the kids screaming in my ears
[08:40:07] <Jymmm> gregcnc: THAT, I can accept =)
[08:40:42] <gregcnc> I like female vocals, but haven't kept up with anything new
[08:41:01] <gregcnc> or even semi recent, except lana del ray
[08:41:35] <Jymmm> I have VERY eclectic tastes in music, but enjoy Spanish guitar
[08:41:57] <Jymmm> not that I would categorize that song as that though.
[08:42:38] <gregcnc> or violincello
[08:42:42] <CaptHindsight> soft porn disguised as a music video?
[08:43:05] <Jymmm> If any of you brew your own beer, how many different temperatures do you have to watch at the same time?
[08:43:23] <gregcnc> i guess I didn't watch long enough to find out
[08:43:28] <Jymmm> s/watch/keep track of/
[08:43:34] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: ?
[08:43:42] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: why would there be more than one temperature?
[08:43:53] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: Depening on process?
[08:44:07] <CaptHindsight> continuous process
[08:44:11] <SpeedEvil> yes, but not at once unless you have multiple batches going at once
[08:44:25] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: That's what I was trying to find out
[08:44:35] <CaptHindsight> brews 100ml/hr
[08:45:23] * SpeedEvil imagines 10km of aquarium tube.
[08:47:20] <Jymmm> Heh, I went into a local hardware store looking for copper tubing, was asked if I'm making a still. I guess it's not all that uncommon around these parts =)
[08:47:55] <gregcnc> do they turn you in if you are?
[08:48:18] <Jymmm> gregcnc: Not sure, I sorta kinda got that impression though.
[08:48:22] <gregcnc> did you ask how many poeple have answered yes?
[08:48:56] <CaptHindsight> loyal uhmericans should police each other
[08:49:04] <Jymmm> gregcnc: Actually I did, his response is what gave me the impression it's quite common actually.
[08:49:07] <CaptHindsight> think of the children
[08:49:08] <gregcnc> see something say something
[08:49:36] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: If it wasn't for alcohol, most of you wouldn't even be alive =)
[08:50:40] <CaptHindsight> aahcahol still require a federal license, no small batch for personal use is allowed
[08:51:38] <CaptHindsight> isn't beer something like 200L/person/yr
[08:55:03] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: This is 1800 sq miles of rugged forest backed against the Sierra Nevada Mountain range. Let em come =)
[08:56:18] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsnZxfkkoKQ turkey in the straw
[08:57:18] <CaptHindsight> https://www.ttb.gov/spirits/home-distilling.shtml
[08:57:42] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Is that like the VERY first music video?
[08:59:42] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: The restriction is all about the taxes, and collection there of.
[09:08:56] <CaptHindsight> dangnamit
[09:14:06] <gregcnc> https://youtu.be/2GpauJ5q2BU?t=23m52s
[09:17:20] <gregcnc> when did foam board get so expensive? 2" 4x8' is 30
[09:17:26] <gregcnc> 30$?
[09:18:04] <gregcnc> I'm thinking about screwing or gluing some to the back of my garage door
[09:20:08] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: I like how they sniff the bottles. No danger there.
[09:20:25] <Jymmm> gregcnc: The R-6 stuff?
[09:20:33] <gregcnc> 2" rigid
[09:20:45] <skunkworks> pink?
[09:21:13] <gregcnc> lowes had some green stuff
[09:21:41] <Jymmm> gregcnc: Polyisocyanurate has the highest R value
[09:21:57] <gregcnc> the pink stuff is cheaper
[09:22:17] <Jymmm> Yeah, but you are insulating for a reason
[09:22:44] <gregcnc> I have to check R values
[09:22:57] <Jymmm> 1" of Polyisocyanurate is $20
[09:23:01] <gregcnc> 2" pink is R10
[09:23:05] <Jymmm> and an R-value of 6
[09:23:45] <Jymmm> and is foil lined
[09:24:18] <gregcnc> it's yellowish?
[09:24:25] <Jymmm> II believe so
[09:24:47] <Jymmm> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Thermasheath-Rmax-Thermasheath-3-1-in-x-4-ft-x-8-ft-R-6-Polyisocyanurate-Rigid-Foam-Insulation-Board-787264/100549260
[09:26:32] <Jymmm> I've been looking at a LOT of thermal related materials as of late, Polyisocyanurate has one of the higher thermal insulating properties for what it is.
[09:27:14] <Jymmm> and at 1", it fts PERFECTLY inside the garge door panels without fastening
[09:27:47] <Jymmm> but, I don't know what kind of climate you're in.
[09:28:00] <gregcnc> I have a solid particle board door so don't matter
[09:28:27] <Jymmm> the foil faces also server as a bit of a vapor barrier too
[09:28:34] <gregcnc> I hope it never falls or the springs break
[09:28:50] <nubcake> hi
[09:29:22] <gregcnc> anything would help if i plan to be in there this winter
[09:29:25] <Jymmm> gregcnc: I had a spring break once.. it was a BITCH to open. Ironically harder to find a replacement on short notice.
[09:29:42] <gregcnc> apparently garage door repair is good money
[09:30:58] <Jymmm> gregcnc: how are you heating the garage now?
[09:31:25] <gregcnc> not yet really, will have to be electric
[09:31:40] <Jymmm> gregcnc: is the rest of the garage insulated?
[09:31:51] <gregcnc> that i don't know either
[09:32:21] <gregcnc> as it's drywlled
[09:33:33] <Jymmm> electric heat will kill you once you get the bill. You might consider propane. I'd set my PortableBuddy on low (4000 BTU's) and a 20lb tank would last 1000 hours.
[09:33:51] <Jymmm> err 100 hours
[09:33:56] <gregcnc> a thousand hours>?
[09:33:58] <gregcnc> ok
[09:34:33] <Jymmm> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Mr-Heater-Portable-Buddy-MH9BX-9000-BTU-Radiant-Propane-Heater-F232000/205527178
[09:34:49] <gregcnc> I did kerosene when i needed it before but that was only for a day or two
[09:35:00] <Jymmm> The BigBuddy is 4000/9000/18000 BTU's
[09:36:04] <Jymmm> I've never really used kerosene, I just "standardized" on propane because it was available everywhere and no storage limitations.
[09:37:00] <Jymmm> I also wanted somesthing that could be usedin an emergency in the house, and the PortableBuddy is "indoor safe"
[09:37:57] <Jymmm> gregcnc: If you consider one, make sure to get the "FILTERLESS" hose for it.
[09:37:59] <gregcnc> garage is attached, so leaving the door open is an option
[09:38:46] <Jymmm> No need for the Buddy heaters, just crack a window an inch or so due to the low oxygen sensor in it.
[09:39:26] <gregcnc> what's a 20lb refill cost you?
[09:41:16] <Jymmm> Well, retail propane is about $3.50/gallon @ 4.7 gallons = $16.45. But when I need my 20lb tanks refilled, I just set them out near the 250 gallon tank and they fill them at the "residential rate" instead of the retail rate.
[09:41:57] <gregcnc> ok about the same here
[09:43:01] <Jymmm> So, 40,000 BTU's for $17
[09:45:35] <Jymmm> gregcnc: The Buddy heaters can run on 1lb disposable tanks too for portability/conveinance, but run out quickly when used regularrly
[09:45:50] <Jymmm> gregcnc: and I just refill them myself.
[09:46:02] <gregcnc> isn't that ~400,000
[09:46:31] <Jymmm> you're corect, my bad
[09:47:35] <gregcnc> spreadsheet time
[09:48:29] <Jymmm> gregcnc:
http://www.calculator.net/btu-calculator.html
[09:49:54] <gregcnc> I have to check the electric rate
[09:50:04] <Jymmm> gregcnc: KW/hr * 3412 = BTU's
[09:50:44] <gregcnc> yeah i found my spread sheet from 10 yeras ago to compare electric vs nat gas when gas was high here
[09:53:42] <Jymmm> gregcnc: When they said they were going to raise NG rates, we thought we would try electric heat and ended up with a $420 bill for one month. ELECTRIC FOR HEAT sucks.
[09:54:46] <archivist> use a heat pump see how the maths improves
[09:54:52] <gregcnc> yeah even when gas peaked it was chepaer, even at heating electric rates
[09:55:29] <Jymmm> gregcnc: Also, I would look on CL for ppl giving away old burned out propane BBQ's, they would typical give the tank away too. Just take the (expired) tank to Lowes and exchange it for one they doens't expire for 8+ years =)
[09:56:28] <Jymmm> After that, I would have them refilled, not exchanged.
[09:59:20] <Jymmm> archivist: Yeah, I was primarily speaking of electric space heaters or even the heating elements in a heatpump (like during defrost cycle)
[10:00:25] <Jymmm> Out heatpump is an older one and below 45F it's a bitch
[10:00:29] <Jymmm> our*
[10:12:21] <Jymmm> archivist: There are the newer mini-splits, but no clue on them as I'm heating a cardboard box (uninstalled for now garage) and paying $2500+ aint in the budget =)
[10:16:42] <Jymmm> gregcnc: ProTemp Sun-Stream diesel/Kerosene heater 70K BTU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cw6xJQOxSHE and
https://www.amazon.com/000-Kerosene-Radiant-Stream-Heater/dp/B002KHG4QK
[10:17:04] <Jymmm> gregcnc: Just another option I'm come across as of late
[10:17:58] <gregcnc> I have an old kerosun like this
https://www.amazon.com/Dura-Heat-Convection-Kerosene-DH2304/dp/B000ITQ5DY
[10:18:45] <Jymmm> gregcnc: K, check out the video, he says not very stinky fwiw
[10:19:11] <gregcnc> these run clean after they get hot, as long as the wick is clean too
[10:19:22] <Jymmm> ah, gotcha
[10:42:19] <Wolf_> I need to add HVAC to my shop…
[10:43:16] <Wolf_> kerosene heaters don’t stink, most of the time, when they arent running right or run out of fuel on the other hand…
[10:44:01] <archivist> remember the results of combustion include water
[10:44:06] <Wolf_> Jymmm: newer mini-splits are pretty good, but $$$
[10:45:31] <Wolf_> I have this to install at my house,
http://www.ecomfort.com/Mitsubishi-MXZ-5C42NAHZ/p30756.html
[10:47:08] <Wolf_> shop will probably get a smaller 3 zone setup at some point (after I build a new shop that actually needs 3 zones lol)
[10:51:18] <Jymmm> lmao
[10:51:42] <Jymmm> Wolf_: I'd suggest that you focus on insulation more thna heating =)
[10:52:04] <Wolf_> need both lol
[10:52:37] <Jymmm> For me, no insulation I need 38K BTU/hr, with insulation 9000 BTU/hr MASSIVE difference
[10:52:59] <Wolf_> yup
[10:54:00] <Wolf_> my current pain in the ass of a shop is block walls and trusses that are 2’ on center
[10:54:08] <Jymmm> Wolf_: Put as high an R-Value as you can on the ceiling
[10:56:00] <Wolf_> yup, need to add one of those (ceiling) lol
[10:57:38] * SpeedEvil was considering a very, very silly idea the other day.
[10:57:49] <Jymmm> Wolf_: Short of mineral wool ($$$$$$$$$$) Polyisocyanurate (which can be sprayed on) has one of the highest R values of most insulation materials ...
https://www.archtoolbox.com/materials-systems/thermal-moisture-protection/rvalues.html
[10:58:01] <SpeedEvil> 100W CO2 LASER + gimbal + infrared cam.
[10:58:23] <SpeedEvil> heat up any objects in view that are between 20-37C to 30C.
[10:58:41] <SpeedEvil> Keep you nice and toasty
[10:58:48] <Wolf_> lol
[10:58:59] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: as long as in focal length of the laser
[10:59:16] <Wolf_> I’ll stick with heat pumps and pellet stoves
[10:59:16] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: well, it should be a few meter range.
[10:59:35] <SpeedEvil> (in principle much longer)
[10:59:36] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: going to "borrow" one of those star wars death rays?
[10:59:53] <SpeedEvil> I just got to wondering after getting my CO2 LASER lens from ebay
[11:00:02] <Wolf_> toss a laser tape measure on it and auto focus on the co2
[11:00:06] <SpeedEvil> (to use as a magnifying lens for a infrared camera
[11:00:50] <Wolf_> heh, I still need to bother to get one of those
[11:01:04] <Wolf_> the lens for the thermal that is
[11:03:16] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: You could get a fiber laser and robotic arm, that shoudl resolve the distance issue, and even double as an amusment park ride =)
[11:03:58] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoA-m5iHG9s
[11:04:10] <miss0r> In some surface grinders theres a counter weight, lifting the spindle. I am curious here. What is the purpose of this counter weight? to reduce the work needed to lift the spindle or to remove backlash in the leadscrew?
[11:04:57] <Jymmm> reduce the workload
[11:05:05] <gregcnc> jymmm electric is still much cheaper than kerosene or propane
[11:05:10] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: 'people that rely on code to not have their brains splattered over their small relatives' ...
[11:05:30] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: Stupid is as stupid does...
[11:05:52] <SpeedEvil> At the very least wear a safety helmet
[11:06:23] <Jymmm> gregcnc: in regards to an electric space heater, or like a heatpump?
[11:06:38] <gregcnc> space heat
[11:07:16] <Jymmm> gregcnc: at what kw/hr rate?
[11:07:30] <gregcnc> $.07
[11:07:46] <Jymmm> gregcnc: is that baseline or peak pricing?
[11:08:00] <gregcnc> we have flat pricing for now
[11:08:09] <Wolf_> 1500w dish heater IMO works nice
[11:08:15] <Jymmm> flat or "level pay plan" ?
[11:08:16] <SpeedEvil> If baseline is cheaper, gravel stores heat at 1kWh/ton/C or so
[11:08:48] <gregcnc> flat, I don't have a smart meter
[11:09:05] <Jymmm> "level pay plan" just averages out the bill over a year instead of high peaks in summer/winter.
[11:09:19] <Jymmm> no smartmeter needed
[11:09:35] <gregcnc> i don't think they do that here
[11:10:21] <Wolf_> mine is flat $0.07 as well
[11:10:44] <Jymmm> Really? I find that kind of interesting.
[11:11:30] <Wolf_> no smart meter and they only actually read the meter every 2-3 months lol
[11:11:32] <Jymmm> It has to be based upon some time of tier.
[11:11:36] <gregcnc> no
[11:11:41] <Jymmm> type*
[11:11:58] <Jymmm> Yeah, but based upon overall usage
[11:12:00] <gregcnc> you have residential and residential electric heat which is a bit cheaper
[11:12:17] <gregcnc> first 400kWh is a slightly higher rate
[11:12:17] <Jymmm> eg < than 20KW/mo
[11:12:27] <gregcnc> commerical is different this is at home
[11:12:45] <gregcnc> commerical rates are murder here
[11:13:05] <Jymmm> I'm only speaking of residential rates
[11:13:47] <Jymmm> if you have an "ALL electric home", then yes you get a different tier.
[11:13:49] <gregcnc> IL is behind the times
[11:14:49] <Wolf_> same with my area, rural still has analog meters, city area are running smart meters lol
[11:20:05] <Wolf_> http://a.co/23YD178 is what I meant by dish heater as well…
[11:26:14] <Jymmm> DIY Starter foundry info
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2FuvKTyRMQ
[11:53:05] <Wolf_> oops, I screwed up last night and ordered the wrong servo driver off of eBay
[11:53:33] <gregcnc> what did you buy?
[11:53:51] <Wolf_> B25A20AC (no encoder input)
[11:54:18] <gregcnc> you can use torque mode
[11:54:46] <Wolf_> actually, I bet it will run the brushless sewing machine motor I have for the X2 lol
[11:55:02] <Wolf_> for the spindle drive
[11:55:36] <gregcnc> you don't need encoder feedback and it won't be great at low speeds an 1000 lines
[11:57:55] <Wolf_> I have one BE25A20 already, just need to get two more and a psu for the 3 servos I have
[11:58:33] <Wolf_> hopefully they are big enough to CNC converted a wells-index
[11:58:46] <Wolf_> convert*
[12:27:25] <Jymmm> Ok, stove is on it's way!
[12:28:25] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: did you order via walmart Mexico?
[12:29:49] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: WTF, hell no.... Walmart Antartica of course
[12:30:30] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: aka Wooly(mammoth)WallyWorld
[12:30:51] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight:
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/hq-issue-outdoor-wood-stove?a=1884248
[12:31:40] <CaptHindsight> how did you get them to ship to CA?
[12:32:26] <CaptHindsight> or did they come to their senses
[12:33:11] <IchGucksLive> hi
[12:33:30] <IchGucksLive> wonderfull sunny day in germany
[12:50:48] <IchGucksLive> today i became a full plasmaspray as the torche firerd while im adjusting the part
[13:00:20] <Wolf_> that doesn’t sound good
[13:13:47] <kyle___> is it weird that i miss going to walmart?
[13:18:14] <IchGucksLive> wallmart will be closed by the end next year
[13:18:22] <IchGucksLive> Deejay: ?
[13:19:22] * Deejay waves his hand
[13:19:57] <IchGucksLive> https://youtu.be/jei3h8iaHFk Please Check german sound on Vid
[13:20:18] <IchGucksLive> Wolf_: it has been quit hot within some seconds
[13:20:46] <Wolf_> yeah, plasma will do that
[13:45:12] <IchGucksLive> Gn8
[15:43:46] <jasonsmr> silly question: but, when purchacing a ball screw spindle why is the such strange lengths offered by sellers on ebay? like:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-set-Anti-Backlash-Ballscrew-RM1605-500-900-1500mm-C7-ball-nut-end-Machine-CNC/171514988738?
[15:44:08] <jasonsmr> it there a method to this grouping of lengths
[15:47:10] <Skullworks> Yes - there are a bunch of router kits or plan sets that use those sizes so people are often looking for thoses sizes with pre-machined end finishing so its a simple bolt in install.
[15:50:13] <jasonsmr> alright thanks for the explanation, makes sense it's a kit
[15:53:53] <Skullworks> On the reverse - you could pick a ballscrew kit, end bearing blocks and design your own frame using 8020 rail and built it with little more than a hand drill and a hacksaw.
[16:21:32] <jasonsmr> yes, I havent started the frame build yet, I was going to wield it, .. I will have a look at that 8020 rail
[16:22:02] <Wolf_> something that small welding it might be fun
[16:22:23] <sync> the problem is the machining afterwards tho
[16:24:26] <jasonsmr> well, the tutorial I saw had a variable build size, he said, org. it was 800x800x350mm
[16:27:24] <jasonsmr> I was going to use stainless steel
[16:29:21] <Deejay> gn8
[16:31:36] <Skullworks> Stainless is far from painless (Warp drive... Warp stop... warp warp warp....)
[16:33:09] <Skullworks> I would drill some holes and bolt things together as close as flat and square as possible, then start tacking....
[16:40:19] <Skullworks> Project #2 or #3 will be a 50"x50" work area plasma table, that will be a bunch of weldments, bolted together. (must be able to remove the legs for transport)
[16:48:02] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/shop/plasma/plasma.xhtml
[16:59:45] <nubcake> night everyone
[17:11:17] <Wolf_> smaller then my planned plasma table
[17:16:01] <Wolf_> 6’x12’ or something like that
[17:23:15] <Jymmm> Tried them this morning, pretty good... Never Fail Biscuits
http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/PrintRecipe?RID=5557&radio=1
[17:23:47] <Jymmm> and freezable
[17:28:30] <andypugh> Jymmm: To return to something from a few days ago: Thermocouples only measure temperature difference between the hot end and the cold end. So not a good choice for machine compensation, as you are still dependent on an ambient absolute device to measure the cold junction, and might as well use that instead of the TC
[17:28:57] <Skullworks> I could go for a plate of Biscuits and gravy.
[17:31:09] <andypugh> You really have no idea what biscuits are in the US do you?
[17:32:08] <Skullworks> Andy - I am so envious of your ability to work with local foundries to get your own custom parts made. Here they don't want to talk to you for a less than 50 part quantity.
[17:34:06] <Skullworks> Biscuits were morphed in the US during the western migration era IE wagon trains, when a whole new type of cooking evolved around a frying pan and dutch oven to cook entire meals.
[17:34:30] <bpuk_> Skullworks - build a home foundry?
[17:34:43] <andypugh> Skullworks: There are one-off foundry options in the US. Try a web search for discussions on model-engineering forums etc. There is an Amish foundry somewhere that get good reports. Though you can’t email them, of course.
[17:35:52] <Skullworks> I have looked at those - only major issue is they are about 1000 miles away from my location.
[17:38:23] <Skullworks> And yes I have allready started building stuff for a foundry, but IRON is really hot and that will take a heavy furnace, the lighter insulation used for a Aluminum furnace will melt to glass under the heat required for iron.
[17:38:54] <bpuk_> yup, you need a reasonable hot face - and even that will probably need replacing every so often
[17:39:02] <andypugh> I don’t think that there are many folk casting iron at home.
[17:39:17] <bpuk_> also, good safety gear - since iron is really hot
[17:39:20] <bpuk_> and bright
[17:39:48] <andypugh> I won’t go as far as saying “none” as there are bouind to be exceptions. (Like the JS “Nobody does gear hobbing at home” :-)
[17:40:41] <Wolf_> i think the knife and sword shop near me has a foundry setup
[17:40:59] <bpuk_> I can do about 10 kilos of iron at a time, not really enough for large patterns
[17:41:15] <bpuk_> so yeah, not many
[17:42:34] <Skullworks> Have to do in outside, AL you can pour a safety layer of sand on the concrete to protect it from spills - but I heard a guy cracked the crucible while lifting it and dumped a load on a 6 inch layer of sand and the heat was still enough to start popping the concrete.
[17:43:39] <Skullworks> dumped a load of iron
[17:44:27] <andypugh> This guy is working on concrete, he almost has to with his rather neat one-man pouring trolley:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfnN5Xna2Kc
[17:45:54] <Skullworks> Motoguzz? - still has a dirt/clay floor.
[17:46:27] <suavesteve> Is it possible to limit an axis while running g-code? From reading I can see options using filters, but it'd be nice if I could set something like a max-value over-ride, to control depth of cut / limited cutter engagments on the fly. For example, if I had say G01 Z-25, I could limit it to Z-15 while running.
[17:47:26] <andypugh> Possible. Probably. Not easy, and maybe wrong-headed :-)
[17:47:50] <andypugh> The point of CNC is to go where it is told, not somewhere different.
[17:47:56] <Skullworks> yeah that is the type of setup I would need - just put the sand around and under your cope/drag and hope you don't slosh the pot while moving.
[17:49:11] <suavesteve> I understand the idea that it goes against CNC, but, sometimes I'd like to reduce a cut, when I've realised I don't need to go as deep, without having to stop, modify and restart
[17:49:56] <JT-Shop> suavesteve: once you learn your machine you won't have to make adjustments like that
[17:49:58] <Wolf_> with no stop how can you change the cut depth value
[17:50:29] <JT-Shop> of course you could put all that stuff in numbered parameters that you can set at the start of the file
[17:50:51] <Skullworks> In the factory I used to work at they had all the machine tool companies come in and modify parameters so that you could only adjust a tool offset in a max of 0.01 values. This was to prevent crashes from negligent offset changes.
[17:51:00] * JT-Shop thinks he has an arrangement for the machine shop in his mind
[17:55:55] <JT-Shop> LOL my windoze XP laptop reminds me that upgrades are ready to download and it has not connected to the internet in years since the wifi thingy broke
[17:57:28] <Skullworks> All my XP machines are on an isolated network, safe from the dangers and probing eyes of the Wild Web.
[17:57:41] <andypugh> suavesteve: If you really _must_ do this, then the “offset” HAL component could be inserted between the Z-command and the PID or stepgen.
[17:57:54] <Skullworks> aka "The low road"
[18:00:05] <Skullworks> The Windows 10 free upgrade was one of those historical examples of something only being worth what you paid for it.
[18:01:09] <JT-Shop> lol
[18:01:43] <Tom_L> it wasn't free
[18:01:48] <Tom_L> it caused plenty of anguish
[18:01:58] <Wolf_> free here
[18:02:09] <Wolf_> all of my machines are win10 free
[18:02:11] <Tom_L> maybe monitarily
[18:02:41] <Skullworks> No Kidding - I had many service calls to repare the damages.
[18:03:27] <tiwake> Wolf_: all my machines are free of microsoft products
[18:04:02] <Wolf_> i couldnt find solid works for linux
[18:04:19] <tiwake> and freecad is not quite there yet
[18:04:24] <tiwake> its getting there though
[18:04:33] <bpuk_> yup, when solidworks for linux comes out I can move my last machine over
[18:05:19] <Wolf_> my daily use comp is a Mac…
[18:05:39] <tiwake> meh, marginally better
[18:05:44] <JT-Shop> I block automagic upgrades on windoze
[18:05:48] <andypugh> I use windows, OSX and Linux equally happily. In fact I am using all three right now, on the same hardware. I have my Mac doing web and IRC, then a VM running Inventor that I am checking geometrical sketches in to test the output of code I am developing in another VM for LinuxCNC.
[18:05:55] <Skullworks> I'm stuck with having to keep a few Win 7pro systems and a W8.1 for the CAD/CAM stuff - today's coder idiots seem to be totally dependant on the M$ Dot net developement platform.
[18:06:51] <andypugh> Two-finger swipe of the Mgic mouse, and I change OS :-)
[18:07:07] <Wolf_> :) same sorta setup here andypugh
[18:07:14] <DaViruz> i believe pro/engineer offer linux versions, though it's quite different from solid works
[18:07:27] <Skullworks> Praise Be for the surge in Android platforms..
[18:07:29] <DaViruz> i believe it's quite capable though
[18:07:44] <andypugh> Fusion / Mac is perfectly usable, and the price is right.
[18:07:57] <Wolf_> except I’m on a MBP early ’11 so I dunno about running 3 at once
[18:08:14] <andypugh> Skullworks: BeOS had nothing to do with Android did it?
[18:09:25] <Skullworks> I have Mecsoft VisualMill and 3D systems Geomagic - but I think this may be the last year I keep paying the yearly tribute fees for Visual Mill
[18:10:47] <Skullworks> BeOS was pre-Android, and its a shame it didn't take off - but it was before its time - it would seem that BeOS would have been a perfect match for the Raspberry pi.
[18:13:05] <bpuk_> work pays for solidworks seats *shrug* kinda stuck with it
[18:14:58] <JT-Shop> nothing wrong with solidworks... you should try some of the others lol
[18:15:55] <bpuk_> just keeps me stuck on windows at home and at work - there were rumours of them porting it a few years back, but seems to have fizzled
[18:16:34] <CaptHindsight> there is NX for Linux
[18:17:33] <CaptHindsight> I only hear complaints from industrial designers about Solidworks
[18:17:48] <CaptHindsight> they tend to prefer Creo (ProE)
[18:18:11] <JT-Shop> yuck ProE I tried that a few times
[18:18:50] <CaptHindsight> it use to have some features they liked that allow them to merge and blend features
[18:18:56] <JT-Shop> your not going to find a high dollar CAD for linux
[18:19:07] <CaptHindsight> only NX
[18:19:27] <CaptHindsight> it's easily $10K
[18:19:38] <JT-Shop> what is NX?
[18:20:09] <CaptHindsight> https://www.plm.automation.siemens.com/en_us/products/nx/index.shtml
[18:20:25] <CaptHindsight> it's up there with Catia
[18:20:29] <_methods> used to be unigraphics
[18:20:42] <JT-Shop> ah
[18:20:54] <CaptHindsight> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens_NX
[18:22:27] <CaptHindsight> https://www.reddit.com/r/cad/comments/23advz/siemens_nx_cost/
[18:22:30] * JT-Shop listens to Supertramp then goes inside to cook
[18:22:52] <CaptHindsight> $7k - $28K
[18:23:09] <CaptHindsight> JT-Shop: is it raining again?
[18:23:46] <JT-Shop> yea 90% chance tonight... sprinkling now
[18:24:11] <CaptHindsight> just got back from the malls
[18:24:25] <CaptHindsight> getting crazy already
[18:24:34] * JT-Shop only goes to the mall when forced to do so
[18:25:29] <JT-Shop> maybe some Doobie Bros then cook
[18:28:09] <t12> /win 12
[18:28:12] <t12> or uhhh
[18:29:08] <CaptHindsight> hey t12 working on any fun stuff?
[18:31:27] <t12> stupid android stuff
[18:31:45] <t12> i built a 9 channel video recorder that drives around in a car
[18:31:54] <t12> but its more or less just computer stuff bolted together
[18:32:57] <CaptHindsight> speaking of Android who has an easily rooted LTE phone that doesn't easily explode?
[18:33:11] <t12> lol
[18:33:18] <t12> isnt the note7 explosion rate like
[18:33:21] <t12> .01%
[18:33:28] <malcom2073_> That's pretty significant
[18:34:10] <CaptHindsight> I've lost track of whats out there
[18:34:32] <malcom2073_> I had a motorola droid I rooted a long time ago
[18:34:35] <t12> i have a spare nexus 5x
[18:34:41] <malcom2073_> I have a 5x, but it's google fi
[18:35:11] <cradek> CaptHindsight: love my droid4 running cyanogenmod 13
[18:35:33] <cradek> I think it's LTE, branded verizon?
[18:35:35] <CaptHindsight> cradek: yeah memleak has the same
[18:36:08] <CaptHindsight> ~$50 on fleabay
[18:36:16] <cradek> yep
[18:36:27] <CaptHindsight> and it mostly just works
[18:36:49] <cradek> yeah everything on it works. the keyboard is very nice. it's a bit short on ram.
[18:37:19] <cradek> still fits in my front pocket and doesn't self-destruct if I dare to sit down
[18:37:21] <CaptHindsight> yeah some website will suck it up and it will run a but slow until you flush it
[18:37:38] <CaptHindsight> but/bit
[18:37:46] <cradek> the size of new phones is getting ridiculous
[18:38:35] <CaptHindsight> I've never liked virtual keyboards
[18:38:51] <cradek> they're a compromise
[18:41:41] <tiwake> nokia N900
[18:41:50] <tiwake> still have mine sitting here, though unused
[18:43:38] <CaptHindsight> I got some n900's in Hong Kong a couple years ago
[18:43:48] <CaptHindsight> they were buggy
[18:44:20] <CaptHindsight> firmware issues with watchdogs
[18:44:26] <tiwake> yeah... thats what happens when microsoft buys half of the company and fires the operating system developers
[18:47:30] <t12> tears for nokia
[18:47:42] <t12> all consumer embedded development is garbage
[18:48:29] <tiwake> SailfishOS seems to be alright
[18:49:21] <CaptHindsight> every time I upgrade my Nexus it seems to be worse for making calls
[18:49:39] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: my nexus is running sailfishOS :P
[18:50:03] <CaptHindsight> tiwake: how do you like it?
[18:51:07] * Skullworks wishes there was a stripper script that would remove all the "phone" drivers out and leave the device like an android tablet. This for older cell phones that are not being actively used as phones anymore.
[18:51:43] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: well, the OS its self is not installed correctly... there are glitchy issues from that... and I'm too lazy to fix them (yay non-official ports...)
[18:51:46] <FloppyDisk525> Umm, airplane mode... j/k.
[18:52:26] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: the OS its self is pretty alright though... it does not get in the way of what a modern cellphone should be used for
[18:53:31] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: some of the default programs its shipped with are annoying... like not showing more decimal points with the calculator program...
[18:53:32] <CaptHindsight> mine likes to freeze when you answer calls or doesn't know how to deal with call waiting well
[18:53:54] <CaptHindsight> so it's less useful as a phone
[18:54:14] <tiwake> yeah
[18:54:22] <CaptHindsight> but I guess that the devs don't make calls
[18:54:34] <tiwake> sailfishOS is good on that
[18:55:00] <tiwake> easy to move programs around, install programs, close open programs... more intuitive than android or iOS
[18:55:37] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: it was interesting for me, because I used sailfishOS, android, and iOS for my first time all at the same time
[18:56:01] <tiwake> iOS I wanted to crush
[18:56:10] <tiwake> ugh
[18:56:22] <CaptHindsight> I had some calculator app want me to upgrade and when I didn't half the numbers stopped working
[18:56:34] <cradek> ha!
[18:56:49] <CaptHindsight> yeah, gotcha
[18:56:54] <cradek> upgrade and add our advertising or lose your 3
[18:57:03] <CaptHindsight> pretty much
[18:57:45] <tiwake> closing a program in iOS is like holding one finger in the top right corner, using other finger to twirl around in a clockwise fashion on the screen, then a notification pops up and you have to swipe a Z across the popup window...
[18:58:10] <tiwake> I don't actually remember how to close a program in iOS, but everything I tried to do felt like that
[18:58:28] <CaptHindsight> I am soo glad the LCNC devs actually run machines
[18:58:32] <tiwake> ugh
[18:59:35] <CaptHindsight> can you imagine what Google or Apple would do to the GUI's
[19:01:35] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: april 1st is a long ways away, and Halloween is past...
[19:02:00] <CaptHindsight> https://ibin.co/2yEz1zoUZ5jZ.jpg axisface
[19:02:05] <Skullworks> (Google) {Tool change window} Time to try new Turbo Cut endmills from MSCDirect...
[19:02:33] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: what is that a screenshot of?
[19:02:49] <cradek> some kind of inside joke, I think
[19:03:10] <CaptHindsight> tiwake: Axis with pronterface/printrun placed over it
[19:03:21] <CaptHindsight> from reprap
[19:03:30] <tiwake> I'm confused
[19:03:47] <CaptHindsight> so it works!
[19:04:14] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: I have a feeling that the WileyFox phones come with Cyanogenmod from the factory
[19:05:16] <CaptHindsight> https://www.wileyfox.com/ new to me
[19:06:20] <CaptHindsight> tiwake:
http://www.pronterface.com/
[19:06:29] <andypugh> May not be available in the US
[19:06:31] <tiwake> CaptHindsight:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqua_Fish is the only cellphone that ships with sailfishOS at the moment
[19:08:01] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: I was looking at some LG phones in the UK since they had 2 sim slots
[19:08:43] <CaptHindsight> the same models in the USA only have 1 sim slot, it's the feature they really don't want to offer in the US
[19:08:48] <tiwake> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtRT6hjXfWg
[19:09:02] <tiwake> "vat of guts"
[19:09:03] <tiwake> lol
[19:09:51] <CaptHindsight> large vat of imported gore
[19:24:18] <FloppyDisk525> The whole cell phone market is different in the usa, all though it's changing. In Europe, buy your phone, then shop for service. In the usa, service then pick a phone. Hence, no reason for more than one sim...
[19:24:43] <FloppyDisk525> I think dang lobbyists are to blame, some corruption there too...
[19:25:00] <tiwake> FloppyDisk525: I do it the other way...
[19:25:26] <FloppyDisk525> Lobby or corruption? :-)
[19:26:13] <tiwake> it comes down to people not wanting to think about what they are doing, not caring enough to look up what they are buying
[19:26:20] <tiwake> lazy idiots
[19:27:05] <tiwake> its why there are so many automatic transmission cars, its why windows is used so much, its why cheap junk continues to be mass produced
[19:27:16] <tiwake> (windows operating system)
[19:28:57] * tiwake wonders off to do laundry
[19:30:33] <renesis> eh
[19:31:00] <renesis> people drive automatic transmission cars because you can break manual transmission cars easily, and clutches are about $1k a pop
[19:31:11] <tiwake> what
[19:31:14] <renesis> that said, fuck automatic transmissions
[19:31:26] <tiwake> that is so BS
[19:31:33] <renesis> its not at all
[19:32:06] <renesis> i drive stick, heel toe all my downshifts, engine brake as much as friction brake
[19:32:11] <CaptHindsight> clutch disk <$100 + throwout bearing $25
[19:32:13] <malcom2073_> It's not. Driven properly a manual can be more dependable... sure
[19:32:23] <malcom2073_> but driven like the average person would, automatic is moreso
[19:32:23] <renesis> i <3 manual transmissions and am better than average
[19:32:31] <renesis> but normal people arent
[19:32:34] <CaptHindsight> resurface flywheel, free
[19:32:41] <malcom2073_> CaptHindsight: "Normal people"
[19:32:42] <malcom2073_> :-P
[19:32:42] <renesis> yeah no
[19:32:51] <renesis> clutch kits are going to be a few hundred dollars on average
[19:32:57] <tiwake> a really really good transmission clutch is maybe $400, for a sports car pushing 500hp
[19:33:03] <renesis> and its going to be hundreds in labor minimum
[19:33:05] <tiwake> a normal car clutch is $100
[19:33:08] <CaptHindsight> with a pressure plate?
[19:33:22] <malcom2073_> My protege's was like, $500 installed (including labor), it wasn't terrible
[19:33:34] <renesis> in any case, manual transmissions are enthusiast technology
[19:33:44] <renesis> no one else gives a shit if their car drives like a wet noodle
[19:34:10] <renesis> and as far as performance, electronic clutches are faster with all the benefits of a manual
[19:34:36] <renesis> manual transmissions are a preference for car enthusiasts, most dont even get better mpg than the auto version
[19:35:10] <CaptHindsight> do cars made after 1973 have automatic or manula transmissions?
[19:35:12] <renesis> shit my car is geared so low it has significantly worse mpg than the auto, but fuckit id rather have the extra torque and control
[19:35:35] <renesis> i dont even know what the point of yuour question is
[19:35:48] <renesis> prob a setup for something else you want to say
[19:36:07] <CaptHindsight> I stopped keeping track of cars made after '73
[19:36:09] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: my 1996 dodge strattus was about that, yeah, including the pressure plate... a really good clutch on summit racing for my mustang that would be good for approx 500-600hp is about $300-$400
[19:36:39] <renesis> my tc (camry motor/trans) was maybe $600
[19:37:00] <renesis> for the job not the clutch
[19:37:42] <renesis> its not going to get a lot cheaper and can potentially be way more
[19:38:03] <renesis> automatic transmissions may cost more if they break, but they dont really break a ton
[19:38:18] <tiwake> I have no idea what labor costs... its generally a function of how cheap the engineers are designing something that can be serviced or not
[19:38:23] <renesis> compared to every manual probably going through at least one clutch in its lifetime
[19:38:38] <renesis> right and these are front engine front drive cars
[19:38:43] <renesis> typicalluy
[19:39:07] <tiwake> its a function of people being lazy and not caring to look that stuff up when they get a car
[19:39:08] <renesis> in other words, actual labor time is somewhat random
[19:39:44] <renesis> i dont know if you mean the mechanics or the owner, but in the case of the owner, most dont know the labor times for typical maintenance on their automobil
[19:39:59] <renesis> most arent going to go to a mechanic and interrogate them for this information
[19:40:17] <renesis> and most dont know how to steal maintenance manuals from the internet, if it is available
[19:40:37] <tiwake> the owner... all you have to do is look to see where the bolts are, or look at average (book) time to do typical maintenance things to the car
[19:40:43] <renesis> an automatic transmission is less drama and less work for an owner
[19:40:56] <renesis> to *everyone* except enthusiasts its pretty much a no brainer
[19:41:03] <tiwake> nope
[19:41:10] <tiwake> if they want cheap, they would look that stuff up
[19:41:20] <malcom2073_> I love the fact that my truck has an automatic transmission
[19:41:22] <tiwake> clearly they don't, so its their problem
[19:41:23] <renesis> manuals are not much cheaper anymore
[19:41:23] <malcom2073_> and my fun truck has a standard
[19:41:46] <renesis> maintenance wise, they are not cheaper on average
[19:41:56] <renesis> most automatic transmissions are not going to blow up
[19:42:36] <tiwake> modern ones yeah, come rebuild time its ugh
[19:42:53] <renesis> real people and real shops dont rebuild transmissions
[19:42:59] <malcom2073_> Nobody rebuilds transmissions anymore heh
[19:43:05] <renesis> they replace them
[19:43:05] <tiwake> w/e
[19:43:08] <tiwake> haters
[19:43:11] <malcom2073_> once the transmission goes up, the car goes to the scrapyard or gets resold at auction
[19:43:11] <renesis> well, transmission shop does
[19:43:11] <tiwake> :P
[19:43:20] <malcom2073_> That's where people like me buy them :-D
[19:43:22] <renesis> but theyre not going to be the ones replacing your transmission most likely
[19:43:31] <renesis> and theyll just replace it and do the rebuild later anyway
[19:43:58] <malcom2073_> Oddly enough, a shop near me actually rebuilt mine
[19:44:03] <CaptHindsight> worn automatics are not difficult to rebuild
[19:44:11] <malcom2073_> took them like a week to do
[19:44:31] <renesis> capthindsight: its just a labor/time/specialization issue for most shops
[19:44:35] <CaptHindsight> but I can see how it would be too complicated for many shops
[19:44:46] <renesis> it takes too long, too
[19:45:07] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: you have to have special equipment to do it with... check pressures, ream this more and sleeve it because worn out and pressure is leaking by it... etc.
[19:45:12] <renesis> its easier to order a rebuilt transmission and trade in the core and let some specialty shop do it
[19:45:19] <tiwake> s/more/bore
[19:45:32] <renesis> yeah transmission shop is more of a machine shop than typical auto shop
[19:46:09] <renesis> anyway, manual transmissions about control and fun
[19:46:33] <tiwake> its about cheap maintenance
[19:46:47] <renesis> theyre no longer practical, so effort must be made to preserve and promote them
[19:46:54] <renesis> but its not
[19:46:56] <tiwake> if you want 500,000+ miles, get a manual transmission
[19:47:07] <renesis> because effectively the maintenance of an auto transmission is the fluid
[19:47:18] <renesis> thats just not a concern really
[19:47:24] <malcom2073_> This argument greatly amuses me
[19:47:25] <renesis> cars need to go 150k miles
[19:47:41] <tiwake> and I expect mine to go 500,000
[19:47:45] <renesis> anything more than that is considered a pretty fucking reliable car
[19:47:52] <renesis> sure but you know that isnt typical
[19:47:56] <tiwake> thats why I'm really picky about what I get
[19:48:23] <tiwake> hmm, about everything I get I guess
[19:48:24] <renesis> and debetably, a modern auto still may be cheaper than the manual, even with a complete replacement
[19:49:10] <renesis> if you want a manual by all means please get the manual transmission
[19:49:42] <renesis> i dont think its right convincing people who dont know one way or another than a manual transmission is more practical
[19:49:54] <tiwake> w/e, I guess some people just like taking the kiss rule and using it on somebody elses butt instead of what its supposed to be
[19:50:21] <renesis> shifting well is not simple at all compared to driving an automatic
[19:51:04] <tiwake> renesis: if all cars shipped with a correctly configured automatic transmission, I'd probably agree with you
[19:51:10] <tiwake> more or less
[19:51:12] <renesis> in old cars with shitty or no synchros, typical modern manual drivers would have a lot of problems
[19:51:32] <renesis> and ya, i really, really dont like how autos are setup
[19:51:52] <tiwake> by correctly configured, I mean shifting hard and not slipping as much as they are set up to do
[19:52:01] <renesis> the shift points, the way they creep, the lack of responsiveness in general, their poor ability to engine brake
[19:52:03] <tiwake> double automatic transmission lifetime with a shift kit
[19:52:29] <tiwake> but they don't
[19:52:33] <tiwake> and nobody bothers with it
[19:52:51] <renesis> shift time is kind of annoying, but i dont shift manuals quickly most of the time
[19:52:56] <tiwake> so let them rot and spend more money than they need to
[19:56:32] <tiwake> which goes back to what I was trying to say to begin with... people are idiots and too lazy to look up what they buy and would rather spend more money on inferior products, thus promoting more inferior products to be produced
[19:57:21] <renesis> right im saying theyre no longer inferior
[19:57:44] <malcom2073_> inferiority is relative
[19:57:50] <renesis> over a typical cars lifetime, modern automatics are going to be more reliable and cheaper
[19:57:56] <tiwake> I'm talking about literally everything, not just cars
[19:58:19] <renesis> shrug, people just buy whats cheap and what tv tells them to buy
[19:59:20] <tiwake> <FloppyDisk525> I think dang lobbyists are to blame, some corruption there too...
[19:59:25] <tiwake> blame the consumer
[19:59:36] * Jymmm blames tiwake
[20:00:50] <FloppyDisk525> I only make that up, but the fact that AT&T can buy Time warner, something's wrong... Why did I pay $10 to $20 for dial up modem and now I pay $60 for comcast w/ little choice...
[20:01:16] <FloppyDisk525> Blame the consumer - yes. That's me...
[20:01:56] <malcom2073_> You pay 3-6x as much for internet 10-20 times faster, 10-20 years later?
[20:01:58] <malcom2073_> :-P
[20:02:31] <malcom2073_> fwiw, comcast still has their $30 a month internet plan, but it's slow
[20:03:12] <tiwake> FloppyDisk525: donno, I pay Tmobile $100/year for using my cellphone
[20:04:03] <tiwake> or rather, for getting a cellphone number to use on my cellphone
[20:04:19] <FloppyDisk525> Yeah, the 10-20 years later, how much less is my computer compared to my internet service!?
[20:04:44] <Jymmm> FloppyDisk525: many dont even have a computer, just their phone these days
[20:04:57] <FloppyDisk525> My computer back then was $2k, a stupied 15" CRT was $600 or more and slow internet, now my internet is waaaayyyy more....
[20:04:59] <malcom2073_> Be happy you have comcast. I'm stuck with DSL for $80 am onth
[20:05:27] <FloppyDisk525> Maybe that was a 12", don't remmber...
[20:05:36] <FloppyDisk525> But it was $$$$
[20:05:39] <Jymmm> 12" would be monochrome
[20:05:46] <CaptHindsight> malcom2073_: whats your down speed? 6mbit/s or higher?
[20:05:54] <malcom2073_> But again, I wouldnt say that 10 years of inflation counts for the difference between $20 and $30 a month being "way more". Get the cheaper plan
[20:06:04] <malcom2073_> CaptHindsight: advertized as 3mbit
[20:17:28] <Wolf_> weird, my comcast bill says that I’m on a bundled plan, $98/mo for blast! speed and bottom basic tv service and HBO
[20:22:25] <Wolf_> which is 150 Mbps (and listed at $83/mo on the xfinity site right now)
[20:52:39] <FinboySlick> Still undecided on that schaublin :P
[20:52:46] <FinboySlick> Tooling is going to be so expensive.
[20:52:54] <FinboySlick> And I don't have a lathe to ghetto my own tooling.
[21:00:28] <CaptHindsight> good tooling is expensive no matter what
[21:04:31] <FinboySlick> I'll lowball an offer to recoup a bit of the shipping cost. Basically, I want this to find a home and not end up on a scrap pile.
[21:08:54] <FinboySlick> It'll be at least a year before I can even begin to use it though :P
[21:35:19] <Cromaglious_> ugh.. spent $55 today to get a Costco card...
[21:35:35] <Cromaglious_> now I can get pizza in Santa Cruz
[21:46:53] <roycroft> how are those two statements related?
[21:57:02] <FinboySlick> Costco sells pizza in Santa Cruz and you need a card to buy at Costco?
[21:57:06] <FinboySlick> (just a guess)
[22:29:58] <tiwake> roycroft: you need a costco card to get in the door... though if you walk in acting like you are with somebody else you can buy at the food service place without needing to show your card... they only ask for it at the door and at checkout, not their hot foods
[22:32:13] <dioz> tiwake: i usually just walk in the exit in that case
[22:32:17] <dioz> pretend you're going to customer service
[22:32:20] <dioz> then walk to the food section
[22:32:36] <dioz> they'll let you get into the customer service bench which is usually near the exit which is usually where the food is
[22:32:41] <dioz> depending on your local costco's layout
[22:33:06] <FinboySlick> Is costco food good enough to be worth all this?
[22:33:18] <dioz> FinboySlick: here a hot dog and a drink is $1.50
[22:33:23] <dioz> and it's a decent sized hotdog
[22:33:43] <dioz> poutine is ~$5 CAD
[22:33:53] <dioz> which isn't amazing but it's decent
[22:34:03] <dioz> with the card you can walk around and eat all the "samples"
[22:34:20] <dioz> sometimes i go back 4 or 5 times to the same sample table
[22:34:29] <tiwake> dioz: yeah... some places just don't care, some are slightly anal about checking for your card
[22:35:01] <dioz> tiwake: haha one time i tried walking through the front door while talking on my phone and i pretended not to acknowledge the front door lady
[22:35:11] <dioz> she literally followed me for about 3 minutes saying "sir sir sir we need your card"
[22:35:25] <tiwake> dioz: you are mean
[22:35:41] <ve7it> in BC, you dont need card to use costco pharmacy ... and prescriptions are much cheaper than I have found anywhere else
[22:36:21] <FinboySlick> I guess that's a point. As a principle, I never really take price into consideration when I'm buying food. I go for what I want to eat. I can be a scrooge about lots of stuff but food is pleasure. You don't compromise on pleasure.
[22:36:47] <tiwake> costco eye exam is pretty cheap I guess, though I havent really shopped around
[22:39:02] <tiwake> FinboySlick: meh... I double check almost everything I buy
[22:40:16] <dioz> FinboySlick: i plan my food based on the fliers that come out
[22:40:25] <dioz> i only buy stuff that is on sale typically
[22:40:47] <dioz> it takes a bit of effort
[22:40:57] <dioz> not much though
[22:41:07] <tiwake> I need to become friends with a restaurant owner so I can order food with his orders
[22:41:21] <tiwake> frozen and dry goods
[22:41:25] <FinboySlick> Well, I'll take a bargain as much as the next guy. But if something twice as expensive at the time would make me happier, I won't think twice.
[22:41:49] <tiwake> stay away from fresh products, cause no way I'll be able to eat a case of limes
[22:43:40] <FinboySlick> I started looking into schaublin lathes to go with the mill.... Dear god.
[22:43:48] <roycroft> i have a costco membership
[22:44:01] <Tom_L> they don't card you just for pizza
[22:44:06] <Tom_L> you wasted $55
[22:44:11] <roycroft> it's a good place to buy blue shop towels
[22:44:12] <tiwake> Tom_L: they do at the door though
[22:44:26] <Tom_L> i haven't found anything else there worth buying honestly
[22:44:26] <roycroft> but they don't sell pizza
[22:44:29] <FinboySlick> I thought Monarch 10 EE was a prized lathe but these guys take it to another level.
[22:44:33] <tiwake> Tom_L: wha
[22:44:34] <Tom_L> tiwake, not here they don't
[22:44:41] <roycroft> they do sell greasy meat and cheese on cardboard stuff
[22:44:43] <roycroft> but not pizza
[22:45:03] <Tom_L> tiwake, i got a pack of their led bulbs a couple months ago.
[22:45:07] <Tom_L> they're all dead now
[22:45:10] <Tom_L> every single one of them
[22:45:20] <tiwake> roycroft: its the perfect college student food
[22:45:23] <roycroft> i've had really good luck with led lamps from home depot
[22:45:27] <Tom_L> same here
[22:45:36] <Tom_L> i found some i like that have lasted well
[22:45:39] <roycroft> tiwake: top ramen is the perfect college student food
[22:45:42] <tiwake> Tom_L: I cant comment on cheap power supplies dieing
[22:45:54] <tiwake> roycroft: not if you don't have a microwave or stove
[22:46:02] <Tom_L> i find sams and costco very comparable
[22:46:12] <Tom_L> sams is cheaper on most things
[22:46:13] <FinboySlick> Ramen only requires a kettle ;)
[22:46:17] <roycroft> college students get electric teapots and make their top ramen in that
[22:46:22] <tiwake> costco muffins are pure love
[22:46:37] * roycroft went to college, and lived in a dorm for a year, and knows about this stuff
[22:47:02] <Tom_L> lived on romen and muffins ehh?
[22:48:11] <tiwake> roycroft: and I didnt? heh... I used to go to costco and get a pizza sunday afternoon, go to the college and work on physics and math until I passed out on the couch there, wake up eat some more pizza, work on some more problems then go to my morning math class
[22:49:05] <tiwake> the couch thats between connected buildings in the physics department, in front of a large whiteboard
[22:52:19] <tiwake> hmm... I might have done that for friday to saturday too... not sure
[22:52:45] <tiwake> kinda blurry, those times
[22:52:50] <Cromaglious_> just went xmas shopping in costco and my old boss cancelled my card.. so I had to get my own
[22:54:00] <tiwake> Cromaglious_: saturday I bought myself a set of pots and pans from costco, and 25lb bags of each: four, white sugar, and brown sugar
[22:54:17] <Cromaglious_> last time we went to santa cruz forgot my costco card at home... so had to pay real money for food
[22:54:22] <tiwake> and some food stuffs to make stir fry
[22:54:45] <Cromaglious_> we bought sharpies and 2 books for xmas presents
[22:54:52] <Cromaglious_> and food
[22:55:59] <Cromaglious_> saturday we went to burbank IKEA, before picking up the girl at the air port, and went sunday after dropping back off at the airport... meatballs yum.... not as cheap as costco though
[22:57:08] <Cromaglious_> and brought home meat balls for xmas supper... Our xmas tradition for the last 11 years
[22:57:33] <tiwake> heh
[22:57:46] <tiwake> traditions are fun
[23:00:29] <Cromaglious_> in 2 weeks we have to drive up to santa cruz to get her and her roommate for christmas break... roomies mom will drive them back up Jan 5th and they'll stay at my folks Morro Bay house for the night, then take the girls the rest of the way to UCSC and then she'll drive home all the way to oceanside... saves 6 hours of driving on one day...
[23:01:18] <Cromaglious_> MB to UCSC is only 3 hours
[23:02:22] <Cromaglious_> so a 6 and 16 hour days instead of 22 hours in one day or $100 for a night in a motel
[23:04:01] <tiwake> drove from oregon to texas when I moved here a few months ago... two days of driving in a car without AC and was overheating so I had the heater on full blast the whole time
[23:06:14] <tiwake> 2,000 miles
[23:07:04] <tiwake> would not do again, at least not with the heater on
[23:21:41] <CaptHindsight> tiwake: try it next time during January
[23:22:40] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: try what?
[23:23:19] <CaptHindsight> driving 2k miles with the heater on
[23:23:23] <tiwake> oh
[23:23:33] <tiwake> no, that would be the pansy time to do it
[23:23:41] <tiwake> august is best time
[23:24:05] <CaptHindsight> so Jan is heater OFF
[23:24:16] <CaptHindsight> windows down
[23:24:32] <tiwake> and take the montana rout
[23:24:41] <CaptHindsight> better yet, no windsheild and just goggles
[23:25:02] <tiwake> need windshield wipers though
[23:25:05] <CaptHindsight> heaters are for sissies
[23:25:49] <CaptHindsight> tiwake: what part of Texas are you in?
[23:26:00] <CaptHindsight> hot part or cold part?
[23:26:03] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: lubbock
[23:26:27] <tiwake> donno if I'd call it either hot or cold
[23:27:08] <tiwake> its about 45f out right now
[23:27:20] <CaptHindsight> practically NM
[23:45:56] <Cromaglious_> sheesh... been there done that... hit a junk yard grabbed a big heater core and some heater hose and ran a aux core off the heater hose connections off the engine in the back of the engine compartment... '72 dodge so I had room
[23:47:25] <Cromaglious_> till I got a chance to recore the radiator from a 3 core to a 5 core
[23:47:44] <Cromaglious_> where 1/2 the tubes werent clogged
[23:47:56] <Cromaglious_> and 3" wider
[23:48:04] <Cromaglious_> err taller
[23:48:23] <Cromaglious_> did it again on a side flow too
[23:48:47] <Cromaglious_> gotta love air force auto hobby shops
[23:49:07] <Cromaglious_> radiator tanks....
