#linuxcnc | Logs for 2016-11-20

[02:37:04] <Deejay> moin
[04:27:04] <XXCoder> https://youtu.be/Fb4j51Mor20
[04:27:06] <XXCoder> njoy
[04:27:09] <XXCoder> *enjoy
[04:34:34] <sync> old
[05:55:13] <jthornton> morning
[05:55:23] <XXCoder> yo
[06:00:25] <jthornton> whats up
[06:00:35] <jthornton> -3c here
[06:02:11] <XXCoder> fancy
[06:02:37] <XXCoder> 40s f here
[06:02:56] <XXCoder> rainy though
[06:16:31] <jthornton> clear here rain wednesday maybe
[06:17:35] <XXCoder> ever-washington
[07:37:48] <nubcake> hi
[08:27:24] <tiwake> does linuxCNC anchor its process to a single core?
[08:27:53] <tiwake> to minimize its thread(s) wondering between cores
[08:28:47] <archivist> the realtime part can
[08:29:56] <tiwake> but not by default? why not?
[08:33:42] <archivist> no idea but with so many variations not sure it is possible see also http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?RealTime
[09:24:04] <tiwake> hmm
[09:24:41] <tiwake> archivist: is it better to get a dedicated GPU for linuxCNC or a built-in GPU?
[09:25:09] <tiwake> or does it not matter
[09:26:24] <archivist> dont use onboard or propriety graphics drivers basically
[09:27:26] <tiwake> I would assume that
[09:28:00] <tiwake> but I am curious if it matters that the video card is plugged into a PCIe slot or not
[09:29:13] <archivist> it is a driver stealing time that matters
[09:29:24] <tiwake> gotcha
[09:29:35] <Frank_6> i had a dedicated gpu plugged in geforce9800 if i recall correctly that gave me 7000ms now i have a j1800 that gives me around 10000ms of latency, which its pretty good and consumes less power= less heat
[09:30:00] <Frank_6> j1800(built in graphics)
[09:30:13] <tiwake> wouldent an AMD videocard be better?
[09:30:31] <tiwake> though intel open source graphics is pretty good too
[09:31:12] <necKro23> 10000 ms? that sounds like a lot
[09:32:49] <archivist> when bringing a new pc up, I just chuck in various cards and test latency and if they work, and leave it at that
[09:33:17] <Frank_6> 10000ns then heh
[09:33:43] <tiwake> 10ms
[09:34:23] <tiwake> something is off there
[09:41:25] <tiwake> be more on topic in here
[09:41:31] <tiwake> *would be
[09:42:27] <tiwake> jasonsmr: why not use linuxCNC instead of an arduino?
[09:42:37] <jasonsmr> I was thinking what is best HW for controlling it, reading Gcode and output to varrious motor controls and input from sensors.. something with plenty of IO
[09:42:54] <Tom_L> mesa card
[09:43:17] <Tom_L> with lcnc
[09:43:25] <jasonsmr> I dont really know ether too well, seems to me that I did catch a LinuxCNC DIY tute for a Laser back in 2010
[09:43:35] <Tom_L> i mean, seriously.... look what channel you're in!
[09:43:48] <tiwake> Tom_L: lol...
[09:44:01] <tiwake> Tom_L: I invited him in here to be more on-topic with the chatter
[09:44:53] <jasonsmr> final words went something like control a laser with linux , you have to be crazy.. which I didnt get why now..
[09:45:19] <jasonsmr> yes well Im here hello>
[09:45:22] <tiwake> jasonsmr: http://mesanet.com/fpgacardinfo.html
[09:45:59] <zeeshan> you guys are too nice
[09:46:01] <zeeshan> :P
[09:46:09] * Tom_L slaps zeeshan
[09:46:11] <Tom_L> there
[09:46:14] <Tom_L> feel better?
[09:46:17] <zeeshan> hehe
[09:46:30] <jasonsmr> I was very interested in the above mentioned laser control, also increasing the work area size of a FDM proto mach, with CNC capibility
[09:46:43] <tiwake> jasonsmr: you most likely want the 6i25 and the 7i77, which is about $350 for the combo... and you get a first-class CNC machine controller
[09:46:59] <tiwake> maybe $350
[09:47:07] <zeeshan> its peanuts
[09:47:09] <Tom_L> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0FYEl85FGE
[09:47:11] <jasonsmr> I see.. great Ill look that up
[09:47:16] <zeeshan> compared to a mainstream controller :P
[09:47:27] <tiwake> well
[09:47:29] <zeeshan> mazak's two new controllers use
[09:47:31] <zeeshan> windows 7 or 8
[09:47:32] <zeeshan> lol
[09:47:32] <zeeshan> :D
[09:47:45] <tiwake> fanuc makes their own
[09:47:52] <tiwake> zeeshan: wait really?
[09:47:53] <tiwake> ugh
[09:47:54] <tiwake> how?
[09:47:57] <tiwake> its not... bleh
[09:48:00] <zeeshan> no idea
[09:48:01] <Tom_L> zeeshan we had one that ran xp
[09:48:04] <jasonsmr> allready ordered Arduino but, could just use it for a robot or something.
[09:48:10] <tiwake> how much awful can they make it?
[09:48:18] <Tom_L> zeeshan
[09:48:18] <zeeshan> it's like mach 3
[09:48:21] <Tom_L> we got rid of it
[09:48:23] <zeeshan> you can off load the work to a real module
[09:48:32] <zeeshan> computer is just a gui
[09:48:44] <zeeshan> isn't performing real calcs
[09:48:44] <tiwake> that wont help the automatic updates and other crazyness
[09:49:59] <jasonsmr> wait, do these cards actualy use the PCIE slot or just the USB cap. on the slot/card?
[09:50:02] <tiwake> I really need to build a linuxCNC machine sometime soon
[09:50:10] <Tom_L> they use the pcie slot
[09:50:12] <Tom_L> or pci
[09:50:17] <Tom_L> depending on which one you get
[09:50:19] <jasonsmr> okey
[09:50:27] <Tom_L> the 5x is pci the 6x is pcie
[09:50:44] <tiwake> Tom_L: and 7x?
[09:50:46] <tiwake> :P
[09:50:53] <Tom_L> cereal
[09:51:02] <Tom_L> tty
[09:51:58] <tiwake> jasonsmr: the 7i76 is for stepper motors, 7i77 is for servos
[09:52:22] <Tom_L> when you get one, specify if you need a short or tall mounting bracket
[09:52:25] <tiwake> there are others, but one or the other is pretty much what you want
[09:53:51] <jasonsmr> I allready have stepper motors with the drivers
[09:54:02] <Tom_L> ur halfway there then
[09:54:06] <tiwake> the drivers are different from the controller
[09:54:35] <tiwake> the mesa electronics is the controller side, plugged into a normal computer
[09:54:45] <jasonsmr> well lets see, its called a wantmotor brand DQ542ma
[09:54:55] <jasonsmr> its a microstep driver
[09:55:40] <jasonsmr> it came in a set of four, with a breakout board.. DB25-1205
[09:56:06] <Tom_L> you'll have to figure out the pinout
[09:56:31] <jasonsmr> its equiped with a db25 anyway, hence the name
[09:56:54] <jasonsmr> some youtube videos on how to get it working with mach3...
[09:57:55] <jasonsmr> I havent a LPT port for the computer though its capible pins enabled and present on the mainboard
[09:58:11] <archivist> with a pc breakout board, just install linuxcnc and go
[09:58:26] <jasonsmr> sounds nice..
[09:58:42] <archivist> picture of breakout?
[09:59:15] <tiwake> archivist: I really really need to build myself a machine :-/
[09:59:34] <tiwake> need a car first
[09:59:38] <archivist> if it looks like http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-Axis-CNC-Breakout-Board-For-Stepper-Driver-Controller-mach3-/222307664607
[09:59:43] <malcom2073_> Build yourself a car!
[09:59:53] <archivist> make cnc to make car
[10:00:15] <tiwake> malcom2073_: cheaper to get a cheap used car... building a car is planned, but years out
[10:00:22] <tiwake> need my own house first
[10:01:08] <tiwake> I want to make the car powered by linuxCNC
[10:01:10] <tiwake> well, maybe
[10:01:16] <tiwake> heh
[10:01:41] <jasonsmr> here http://i.imgur.com/B7Ugx8nl.jpg
[10:02:34] <archivist> I dont know that one but I can see more optos that I would like
[10:03:00] <archivist> that/than
[10:03:19] <tiwake> D825-1205
[10:03:38] <tiwake> or DB25-1205
[10:04:17] <Tom_L> http://www.nbglin.com/download/cnc25.pdf
[10:05:25] <archivist> wire it up, download the liveCD try it
[10:05:44] <jasonsmr> DB
[10:05:44] <the_wench> http://www.wench.archivist.info/index.php?chan=%23linuxcnc
[10:05:52] <jasonsmr> not eight D
[10:06:01] <jasonsmr> and B as in boy
[10:06:18] <jasonsmr> cool I will try
[10:08:20] <archivist> Tom_L, linked a manual for that bob
[10:12:00] <IchGucksLive> hi
[10:12:15] <IchGucksLive> rain in germany and almost dark outside
[10:14:07] <IchGucksLive> Deejay: ?
[11:05:37] <jesseg> Morning gents
[11:06:07] <jesseg> so I'm just curious why my BP-clone knee mill's spindle motor takes several seconds to come up to speed.
[11:06:20] <IchGucksLive> ;-)
[11:06:44] <jesseg> it's on proper 3phase at its old location, and I sort of imagined a 3phase motor wouldn't have the start up delay of a single phase
[11:08:09] <jesseg> Is there some sort of soft start mechanism, or is it intentionally achieved through the magntics design of the motor, or is it just inherent in 3 phase motors?
[11:09:24] <jesseg> The other thing I expected is that flipping directions would have caused a sort of momentary rotorlock and sudden reversal affect... but it didn't...
[11:09:49] <archivist> direct online or vfd
[11:10:02] <archivist> or star-delta starter
[11:10:20] <jesseg> archivist, it's an old unit, I didn't see any box big enough for a vfd
[11:10:48] <jesseg> it had a little breaker box with 3 breakers, and an even smaller box with the FOR/OFF/REV knob
[11:11:02] <jesseg> it has the wide belt variator
[11:15:15] <jesseg> Hmmm, well, I didn't notice any "click" of the relay or winding switcher
[11:15:21] <jesseg> but I wasn't listening for it either
[11:17:51] <IchGucksLive> ok i will upload todays small tutorial and then say Gn8
[11:22:47] <jesseg> archivist, so wouldn't star-delta starter require at least a couple of 3-pole relays?
[11:23:04] <jesseg> or would it be built into the motor on a flyweight mechanism?
[11:23:20] <IchGucksLive> https://youtu.be/Ut-Cp1qogag
[11:23:35] <IchGucksLive> Grayscale Image Howto
[11:23:38] <archivist> either a time delay relay of a lever
[11:23:48] <archivist> of/or
[11:24:26] <jesseg> Hmmmm. Didn't see any lever
[11:24:47] <IchGucksLive> i will make this also in English ;-)
[11:25:44] <IchGucksLive> Loetmichel: ?
[11:26:57] <IchGucksLive> Gn8
[11:27:17] <jasonsmr> Question, recomends: 1.) X-Y motor control using a belt system , with Z direction on a spindle? or all three Axis using spindle (more professional) verc/speed/accuracy?
[11:27:44] <archivist> jesseg, may be a deliberate slow start to reduce torque on the variator
[11:27:57] <jasonsmr> most of the tuts. that I see are using X-Y with a belt system, although most larger machines use spindle
[11:28:15] <jesseg> archivist, perfectly understandable, I'm just wondering how they achieve it :D
[11:28:24] <archivist> inertia
[11:28:44] <archivist> bigger motor with less power
[11:29:05] <jesseg> well, wouldn't that mean it was operating in rotor lock mode for several seconds, drawing large qty of current?
[11:29:37] <archivist> where are you dreaming rotor lock from
[11:31:03] <jesseg> well, if the 3-phase electromagnet field is turning at full speed and full power and the rotating core of the motor isn't, the motor will be drawing maximum current, right?
[11:31:35] <jesseg> I googled some, and 3 phase motors are known to have extremely sudden high starting currents if just started directly without some soft start mechanism.
[11:32:08] <jesseg> Sure, adding a massive kinetic mass would slow them, but during that period they'd be pulling maximum current and getting rather hot :D
[11:32:18] <archivist> they all start suddenly with direct on line
[11:32:49] <archivist> you can restrict current for a while
[11:33:09] <jesseg> yes and I'm just curious how they do it :D
[11:33:27] <archivist> time delay in the starter
[11:34:04] <jesseg> must be. Or maybe a flyweight switch inside the motor? like the starting mechanism in some single phase motors?
[11:34:08] <archivist> series resistors/inductors as well
[11:34:16] <jesseg> cool
[11:34:19] <jesseg> thanks!
[11:34:46] <archivist> not seen a centrifugal switch inside a 3 phase motor yet
[11:35:41] <archivist> VFDs can easily control start up acceleration rates
[11:35:53] <jesseg> yeah, definitely
[11:36:35] <jesseg> but this old thing has no VFD. It's entire control panel consists of a single rotary knob with 3 positions, mounted on a really small metal box :D
[11:38:41] <archivist> there might be a panel with the relays inside the main casting
[11:38:43] <sync> well, then it must have something else in a control box somewhere
[11:38:47] <jesseg> I'll have to figure out what to do about a rotary phase converter or VFD since I haven't got 3 phase :D
[11:38:55] <jesseg> ohhhhh that is a good point guys
[11:39:15] <sync> it always amazes me that nobody has 3 phase...
[11:39:15] <jesseg> I noticed there was an access panel door on the side of the main support base
[11:39:23] <jesseg> yeah
[11:40:37] <archivist> because .00000001% of dometic houses want 3phase
[11:41:12] <sync> 0o
[11:41:17] <sync> everbody in germany has 3 phase
[11:41:29] <DaViruz> same here in sweden
[11:41:33] <DaViruz> even apartments
[11:41:41] <sync> how else can you run electric stoves or water heaters properly?
[11:41:56] <CaptHindsight> off 1-2 poles
[11:42:04] <archivist> it is in the street here for balance n houses per phase
[11:42:08] <sync> pushing 28kW through single phases? clearly not
[11:42:33] <CaptHindsight> balance schmalance
[11:42:51] <archivist> most never have that size electric heating,
[11:42:58] <jesseg> I guess I could see if 3 phase was strung by. There might be 3 wires up there, don't remember. But, they'd have to put in a 3 phase pole pig to drop it down for me and that'd definitely break the bank :P
[11:43:18] <CaptHindsight> new construction in the US is wye but each home or apt unit will only get 2 poles
[11:43:35] <archivist> all underground here
[11:44:38] <sync> almost all hot water stuff here is electric
[11:44:45] <sync> and stoves usually too
[11:45:05] <archivist> most heating is gas here
[11:45:18] <jesseg> I guess you could have a 3 burner stove, and each burner runs off a phase to keep it balanced if you were cooking 3 pots
[11:45:24] <CaptHindsight> if they could make more profit from coal they would still use that for hot water, cooking and heat
[11:45:28] <sync> that is the case jesseg
[11:45:48] <sync> that is also why everybody is getting 3 phase
[11:46:00] <jesseg> sync, or for large families, they could have a 6 burner stove
[11:46:22] <archivist> here an electric cooker would be on 30A 240v single phase
[11:46:54] <Duc> i know in Abq NM the power compnay wanted 50k to drop 3 phase to my home garage
[11:47:14] <sync> or you have 4 and just accept some imbalance jesseg
[11:47:29] <CaptHindsight> in the USA it's similar but it's called a stove
[11:48:06] <jesseg> Duc, so what happened?
[11:48:12] <CaptHindsight> heat and cooking are mostly natural gas
[11:48:47] <Duc> jesseg: decided against it and waited a few years till I got my lathe and bought a 15 hp rotary convertor. much easier
[11:48:56] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Certified organic natural gas?
[11:49:04] <jesseg> Duc, cool.
[11:49:34] <CaptHindsight> CaptHindsight: right from the ground, none of that "don't know where it's from" stuff
[11:49:53] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: GMO free ?
[11:50:10] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: no they burn GMO's as well
[11:50:16] <Jymmm> lol
[11:50:21] <sync> yeah, archivist that's not really saving copper tho
[11:52:02] <archivist> safety beats saving copper
[11:52:35] <CaptHindsight> Duc: was that underground?
[11:52:45] <jesseg> Do you guys generally think a rotary phase converter is better than some solid state thing?
[11:53:21] <jesseg> of course, with a VFD, existing slow-start could be done away with and motor driven directly
[11:53:26] <archivist> I think a vfd is better than a rotary
[11:53:47] <jesseg> of course I could also just get a big single phase motor and stick it on there :P
[11:53:50] <CaptHindsight> jesseg: both are fine, the problem with a vfd is false specs from ChinaCo models
[11:54:01] <Duc> CaptHindsight: yea and I think they just throw a high number out to put me off
[11:54:05] <jesseg> CaptHindsight, hahaha yup. rich in Chinesium.
[11:54:31] <archivist> I rewire my motors to use VFDs
[11:55:02] <CaptHindsight> Duc: it's the same for cable, they wanted $15k to run it 1K feet
[11:55:05] <jesseg> archivist, rewire? as in change the start to delta or whatever?
[11:55:24] <archivist> yes convert star to delta
[11:55:36] <archivist> some are ready but often not
[11:56:03] <Duc> CaptHindsight: Hopefully the house we are looking at today has a 200 amp drop in the detached garage
[11:56:39] <Jymmm> Duc: and an overhead crane, right?
[11:56:43] <sync> what kind of safety archivist?
[11:57:03] <sync> it is not like 240V is killing less or more people than 400V
[11:57:07] <Duc> Jymmm: thats easy to add later on from craigslist but that would be killer
[11:57:16] <Jymmm> lol
[11:57:34] <jesseg> LOL... "SPLICED GEAR HUB" -- do you suppose it's the *splined* gear hub?
[11:57:47] <jesseg> gotta love a translation from Chinese
[11:58:06] <archivist> sync, the potential of opposite phases being exposed to a user
[11:59:03] <sync> they are in a metal box on a RCD, what's gonna happen?
[11:59:17] <archivist> water spill on a cooker
[11:59:18] <Duc> Jymmm: at this point a 2 car detach with a 2 car attached will be a good thing
[12:00:44] <CaptHindsight> most lots here are already filled to the max with house and garage since many feet of setback is required
[12:01:46] <sync> if I spill water it will run down the sides, now what?
[12:02:12] <sync> even if it only touches a phase, the rcd will then trip
[12:03:02] <Duc> I think this house sub divided the original lot due to cost. its selling with 1.6 acres with a additional 7 if wanted
[12:05:36] <CaptHindsight> Duc: how fed up are you with agents at this point?
[12:07:03] <Jymmm> setbacks can be a bitch. Also be sure to look at land markers in case there is any disputes
[12:07:33] <Jymmm> and pull the assesors map ahead of time
[12:08:23] <Duc> CaptHindsight: so far not bad. we meet one on the last house that has been willing to just meet us at houses we find on a whim. But we got approval from his mortage person and we can afford everything we look at.
[12:08:23] <Jymmm> and check for land/water/mineral/rights sneaky bastards
[12:08:48] <Duc> now the lady from last year emails us every 3 days still
[12:08:57] <CaptHindsight> heh
[12:09:41] <jesseg> Hmmm. is google+ good or bad? Seems I have to sign up on that to reply to comments on my own youtube videos..
[12:09:58] <Duc> we are looking but not hard. I dont want to be house broke. I can afford 350K but no desire to
[12:09:59] <CaptHindsight> evil
[12:10:28] <jesseg> CaptHindsight, that's kind of what I thought... but how evil?
[12:11:26] <malcom2073_> jesseg: As evil as your tinfoil hat is large.
[12:11:26] <CaptHindsight> jesseg: no privacy type, but if you don't give them info
[12:12:23] <CaptHindsight> just open 124 google+ accounts and randomly use them to search for pop culture icons
[12:12:35] <jesseg> CaptHindsight, well, I also use gmail with my full name, and I'm not a super privacy type either, but on the other hand I know there's a full industry out there of people living off of identity fraud, so I try to be a little careful
[12:13:10] <CaptHindsight> I use my full name and SS # on everything so I can track it
[12:13:49] * Jymmm just wishes CaptHindsight would stop including the color/type of panties he wears everyday
[12:14:13] <Jymmm> TMI <rolls eyes>
[12:14:19] <CaptHindsight> now I can find more info on me pre-internet
[12:15:59] <CaptHindsight> they don't really need your new info since all those people finder sites have scoured all the public records
[12:17:51] <jesseg> hmmm...
[12:18:15] <jesseg> it said I had 14 days to undo the change (presumably of signing up for google+)
[12:18:31] <jesseg> but when I go to delete it, it just says "Join Google+" as if I didn't join.
[12:18:54] <Duc> at this point strangers know your patterns more than you do
[12:19:05] <CaptHindsight> I even found search results with an old address I used for my mail when I lived outside the US
[12:19:16] <CaptHindsight> in the 80's
[12:22:30] <Duc> anyone use the rigid tap code
[12:29:49] <Duc> never mind got it working. encoder signal was backwards on the spindle
[12:50:41] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: http://slic3r.org/
[13:05:22] <tiwake> Jymmm: oh hey, open source?
[13:05:43] <Jymmm> tiwake: yep
[13:27:29] <Roguish> Hey all. Autodesk is doing Fusion360 for $100/year, or $200/2year. during Nov 25-28
[13:28:19] <malcom2073_> I thought it was free
[13:29:53] <SpeedEvil> Only through bittorrent.
[13:30:55] <tiwake> in the magical land of the torrentians
[13:31:40] <malcom2073_> Mechanical desktop isn't free, but fusion 360
[13:31:49] <malcom2073_> is*
[13:32:19] <malcom2073_> At least, as long as you're doing under 100k in profit, unless they changed it?
[13:35:05] <tiwake> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqAH7EqDY3E
[14:09:39] <gregcnc> pretty cool for a tiny VMC https://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/bfs/5884395617.html
[14:12:28] <DaViruz> what a cute tool holder
[14:13:08] <gregcnc> might be ISO 10, but being a Precise spindle, maybe proprietary
[14:13:30] <Frank_6> whats fusion360 software for exactly?
[14:13:39] <gregcnc> CAD/CAM
[14:13:41] <DaViruz> cad and cam i believe
[14:14:58] <Frank_6> nice im downloading it already, i thought i had to pay
[14:15:19] <DaViruz> free for hobby use
[14:15:46] <Frank_6> who "isnt"
[14:23:39] <Frank_6> little question, i will be having overtravel limits hooked up with the estop, what should i do, make a relay tell linuxcnc that there was an estop, or make it know that it touched the limit?
[14:24:59] <tiwake> Estop should probably be different from limit switches
[14:25:26] <tiwake> so that you can have more useful error messages
[14:26:47] <Frank_6> the thing is that when it reaches a limit switch the machine would want to back up right? but it would be powered off
[14:28:23] <sync> well, you'd want drives and a control that limits direction and speed if you hit the endstop without actually powering off the drive
[14:32:18] <Frank_6> i understand that would be good for 99% of the times when software/pc hardware doesnt mess up stuff, but with 130kg of gantry, i really need to make sure that the machine wont just fall from the base
[14:32:48] <tiwake> can you set up soft limit switches and hard limit switches?
[14:33:02] <tiwake> basically two limit switches for a given direction
[14:33:23] <sync> home + limit, yeah
[14:34:59] <tiwake> sync: the few machines I've worked with generally called them soft limits... in the case of the lathe I could understand that being the same thing, but it would not be the same thing for a mill...
[14:35:03] <Frank_6> yes i was planning to do so, but what would hard limit switches do if not disconnecting the power
[14:35:55] <Frank_6> basically im trying (first machine ever) to rule out a technical/software malfunction that can tip off the gantry
[14:36:14] <Frank_6> please do tell if you think im wrong
[14:37:07] <sync> well tiwake, you have to home against something and you can use those as limit switch and then back them up with a switch that disables the drive
[14:37:25] <sync> if you have an absolute encoder you obv don't need the home switch
[14:37:57] <tiwake> an absolute encoder would be what... like a magnetic strip?
[14:39:00] <tiwake> oh hmm
[14:39:47] <tiwake> you could have the home switches, and defined in the config the maximum travel the other direction and treat that number the same as a soft limit switch
[14:39:57] <Frank_6> the servo has abs encoder, but it only feeds back to the drive, im only sending step and dir signals
[14:40:58] <sync> you could just use the drives protocol instead of using step/dir
[14:41:21] <sync> tiwake: no, absolute angular feedback on the motor
[14:41:47] <sync> that way you always know where your spindle is, unless your coupling slips
[14:45:07] <tiwake> sync: oh... wait.. how would it know? if you spin 1.5 revolutions, thats the same as 0.5 revs... the software of the controller would have to keep track
[14:46:22] <tiwake> sync: as far as I know, the encoders typically have a rotation start position
[14:46:41] <tiwake> but the encoder its self does not know its absolute position
[14:47:07] <sync> it does
[14:47:18] <sync> either by using induction to power it while off
[14:47:21] <sync> or by using a gearbox
[14:47:57] <tiwake> oh, some electonics inside the encoder to keep track
[14:48:09] <tiwake> alright, that is a suitable answer
[14:48:35] <tiwake> :P
[14:51:27] <sync> you can also use a an absolute glass scale
[14:51:33] <sync> or one with coded reference marks
[14:51:40] <sync> but manufacturers get rid of them as they cost money
[14:52:12] <DaViruz> coded reference marks is very nice.. until they break!
[14:52:31] <tiwake> ..?
[14:52:50] <DaViruz> a friend of mine has a 2.6m long one. it started acting up once, and a new one was crazy expensive
[14:52:57] <tiwake> the one encoder I've taken apart was glass
[14:53:20] <tiwake> with a position marker for a starting place
[14:53:36] <tiwake> hooked it up to an oscilloscope
[14:53:48] <tiwake> very nice square waves
[14:53:57] <sync> well that is to be expected DaViruz
[14:54:02] <sync> but they are easy to replace tho
[14:54:22] <DaViruz> turned out you could transplant the reader from another scale of the same series, which fixed it
[14:56:10] <sync> yes, you can replace the readers, most can be bought seperately
[14:57:27] <JT-Shop> one more heavy object to move from the shop to the new shop and then deshamblize
[14:57:49] <Tom_L> time to acquire more stuff
[14:59:24] <JT-Shop> time to have a place to work lol
[15:08:20] <Magnifikus> i replaced my amt steppers with nanotec ones today, WTF
[15:08:34] <Magnifikus> never again
[15:11:18] <pcw_home> glass scales do tend to be a lot more accurate than ballscrews
[15:13:32] <pcw_home> If you want better than glass and dont mind paying, you can use Invar scales
[15:14:00] <andypugh> Shouldnt the scales be made out of the same material as the workpiece?
[15:15:26] <sync> well, the machine will need to be warmed up to temp and then it will be accurate
[15:15:31] <SpeedEvil> andypugh: this is why I failed on my automated tattoo machine.
[15:15:38] <SpeedEvil> Having to pay the axes.
[15:16:06] <sync> pcw_home: well, yes but people are getting good at modelling screw stretch and mapping out the error
[15:16:06] <pcw_home> probably best to use a invar scale and the do workpiece temperature compensation
[15:16:22] <andypugh> If you had uses axes to harvest the axes that problem could have been eliminated
[15:16:35] <sync> there are machines with hollow bored screws and oil/coolant running through them
[15:16:50] <pcw_home> yep. you need ballscrew temp comp also
[15:17:02] <pcw_home> (if no scale)
[15:17:10] <_methods> what a bunch of nerds
[15:17:13] <sync> yeah, that's not hard to do tho
[15:17:43] <Frank_6> easyer to just control temperature of the hole room?
[15:17:59] <Tom_L> most cnc shops are
[15:18:08] <pcw_home> its not easy because the screw temp varies with load and usage
[15:18:23] <sync> that is why you pump cooland through it
[15:18:29] <SpeedEvil> pcw_home: IR temperature measuring components are now $3
[15:18:35] <sync> you can also model the friction of the nut on the screw
[15:21:25] <Frank_6> we are talking 1-5 micron accuracy?
[15:22:39] <pcw_home> Doubt an IR temp sensor would survive 2 minutes in an oily environment
[15:24:35] <SpeedEvil> pcw_home: probably not actually
[15:24:53] <Jymmm> kprobe
[15:25:18] <andypugh> You simply need to use nickel-chrome screws with nickel-alumnium balls and ballnuts to facilitate easy temperature measurment.
[15:25:51] <Jymmm> pcw_home: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5PCS-Lot-Stainless-Steel-Temperature-Probe-Sensor-K-Type-Thermocouple-Tube-with-2m-Wire-Cable/1717205489.html
[15:26:02] <Frank_6> $$$
[15:26:23] <Jymmm> Frank_6: $3 USD ?
[15:26:35] <Frank_6> on andy's comment
[15:26:52] <Jymmm> lol
[15:26:54] <andypugh> My comment was related to Jyymms, of course.
[15:27:10] <sync> haha
[15:27:12] <andypugh> Thermocouples are incredibly cheap things.
[15:27:21] <Jymmm> andypugh: Yes, cause your method is MUCH impler =)
[15:27:26] <Jymmm> simpler*
[15:27:33] <Frank_6> wonder if anyone would actually do this, with linuxcnc
[15:27:40] <andypugh> Do what?
[15:28:01] <Jymmm> andypugh: Take vover the world"
[15:28:19] <Frank_6> temp compensation, measuring, ground ballscrews, heave heavy vmc,
[15:28:39] <andypugh> skunkworks: Tell him about your spindle?
[15:28:43] <Frank_6> not that it cant be done, but i havent read anything like it
[15:29:47] <Frank_6> actually, if my cncrouter which is 75% done starts making good money, i might do some tight tolerance vmc
[15:30:05] <Frank_6> probably not..
[15:33:20] <andypugh> Looks like skunkworks isn’t there tight now. He has temperature sensing in the spindle of his HMC that puts in a Z-offset.
[15:34:06] <Tom_L> how did he map the ammount of offset to add?
[15:34:28] <andypugh> Magic, and elves, I think.
[15:34:36] <Tom_L> sounds like skunkworks
[15:34:51] <Frank_6> lol
[15:37:17] <andypugh> OK, so I just committed to buying £127 of Tritium. :-)
[15:37:49] <andypugh> This does feel a bit “mad inventor”-sh
[15:38:18] <andypugh> (Obviously, part of my plan to Take Over The World!
[15:38:27] <SpeedEvil> raw tritium, or in glowys
[15:38:38] <andypugh> Glowys
[15:38:56] <SpeedEvil> Annoyingly, my expensive glowy that I have yet to use in a project is now over a half life old.
[15:39:12] <andypugh> Is it a big one?
[15:39:24] <SpeedEvil> ~1.5cm ball
[15:41:01] <Frank_6> please save one little spot for me in the rocket to mars, i dont weigh that much
[15:41:11] <andypugh> I saw an interesting comment on a web site (google “Periodic Table Wooden”) which says that when you consider how many atoms decay every second to make that steady glow, and that there are enough in that vial to glow for 20 years, you realise just how very tiny atoms are.
[15:41:26] <pfred1> andypugh another few trillion investment and you should be well on your way
[15:41:53] <Frank_6> what is it for :D ?
[15:42:00] <andypugh> A clock
[15:42:21] <SpeedEvil> andypugh: why tritium and not LED?
[15:42:35] <andypugh> Cirdless
[15:42:37] <pfred1> /sub andypugh atomicpunk
[15:42:43] <andypugh> (cordless)
[15:42:47] <SpeedEvil> andypugh: LED at powers involved can be cordless
[15:42:58] <SpeedEvil> LED at a microwatt is probably brighter than the tritium vials
[15:43:04] <Frank_6> dont you die if you look at it? hehe
[15:43:09] <SpeedEvil> Not that tritium isn't fun.
[15:43:18] <andypugh> definitely. But not the same sort of steampunk vibe
[15:43:29] <DaViruz> andypugh: building a hydrogen bomb?
[15:43:30] <DaViruz> :)
[15:43:35] * SpeedEvil wants to make a 'first CRT' type clock
[15:43:43] <Frank_6> kinda kryptonite
[15:44:27] <andypugh> SpeedEvil: You might be too late: http://timeguy.com/cradek/clocks
[15:45:22] <SpeedEvil> andypugh: yeah - not that
[15:45:46] <andypugh> That’s cradek, by the way, one of the LinuxCNC devs
[15:46:00] <pfred1> devils?
[15:46:33] <andypugh> I think cradek is a developer, whereas jepler might be a daemon.
[15:47:42] <Frank_6> *cradek webpage: My contributions to LinuxCNC's Enhanced Machine Controller include work on AXIS, a new user interface. AXIS was designed and developed jointly by Jeff Epler and me. It has many features not seen before in the available user interfaces, most importantly the ability to preview the program in 3D and see the machine progress through it.
[15:47:43] <pfred1> with a software update, and a reboot I'm not getting my long real time delay errors anymore with cradek's distro
[15:48:09] <SpeedEvil> andypugh: I can't find the proper image I'm thinking of. Largely cylindrical tube, with a spherical end, larger than the tube, with cotton insulated deflection coils and the whole thing mounted on a brass/mahogony base
[15:49:31] <SpeedEvil> https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7406/9663807404_9907846e5d_b.jpg - broadly similar to
[15:50:35] <DaViruz> http://www.crtsite.com/big/crt/wehnelt%20crt-big.jpg
[15:50:37] <DaViruz> perhaps?
[15:51:39] <SpeedEvil> yes, though with magnetic deflection not electrostatic
[15:52:27] <DaViruz> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-nLBFZNMywX8/TW1YUbxCjrI/AAAAAAAAGcI/JKaoIMT77VU/s320/crt-clock.jpg
[15:52:31] <DaViruz> that one was rather nice
[15:52:53] <pfred1> the secret password is "burrito" as in I am going to have lunch here
[15:52:53] <SpeedEvil> It was.
[15:53:19] <SpeedEvil> DaViruz: I want a transparent tube though, and like the look of cotton coils
[16:20:44] <Deejay> gn8
[16:25:48] <andypugh> I saw something on TV where they made a CRT out of a wine bottle
[16:31:06] <pcw_home> and you get to drink the wine first
[16:34:13] <bpuk> added bonus
[17:02:35] <skunkworks> I graphed the movement vs temp sensor output.. It ended up being linear
[17:03:03] <skunkworks> turned it into a line function in hal
[17:04:36] <skunkworks> iirc ;)
[17:13:04] <JT-Shop> skunkworks: do you like this log format? http://gnipsel.com/logs/%23linuxcnc/index.html
[17:14:27] <malcom2073_> JT-Shop: you should implement a search :-P
[17:15:06] <pfred1> browsers usually have a find feature
[17:15:23] <JT-Shop> you can do a site search
[17:15:45] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/
[17:16:04] <JT-Shop> I could do something like the search at the bottom of my home page
[17:18:01] <malcom2073_> You can't search every page though can you through the browser?
[17:18:57] <JT-Shop> yea, do a site search stuff to search for site:url
[17:19:00] <jdh> google: site:gnipsel.com servo
[17:19:28] <malcom2073_> That doesn't index the log pages as far as I can see
[17:19:54] <pfred1> malcom2073_ you're picky
[17:20:09] <JT-Shop> lol
[17:20:18] <malcom2073_> Heh
[17:20:25] <malcom2073_> Like I said: [17:45:57] <malcom2073_> JT-Shop: you should implement a search :-P
[17:20:25] <JT-Shop> big pot of Texas chili on the stove mmmm
[17:20:26] <malcom2073_> :)
[17:20:26] <zeeshan> goddamn mig welder
[17:20:29] <zeeshan> stopped feeding wiring
[17:20:30] <zeeshan> WTF!!
[17:20:37] <pfred1> I had burritos for lunch
[17:21:11] * JT-Shop doesn't eat lunch on the weekends
[17:21:14] <pfred1> zeeshan clean the spit off your stinger tip
[17:21:22] <JT-Shop> lol
[17:21:37] <zeeshan> its not feeding with the tip off either
[17:21:40] <BeachBumPete> why are you MIg welding? ;)
[17:21:40] <zeeshan> i can hear the gear grinder
[17:21:41] <Wolf_> or put more wire in it
[17:21:43] <pfred1> oh that's bad
[17:21:43] <zeeshan> grinding
[17:21:49] <zeeshan> pos lincoln
[17:21:56] <pfred1> that means the wheels are jacked up
[17:22:06] <BeachBumPete> or the tension is not high enough
[17:22:14] <pfred1> is the feed motor even running?
[17:22:15] <Wolf_> oh lincoln, that will do it :P
[17:22:20] <zeeshan> i can hear the feed motor running
[17:22:27] <zeeshan> but i can hear gear slipping
[17:22:31] <pfred1> yeah you got the right size wire?
[17:22:37] <zeeshan> yea
[17:22:44] <zeeshan> ive been welding with this before..
[17:22:44] <pfred1> ah the drive is bad?
[17:22:44] <JT-Shop> one more heavy move to get the shop some breathing room
[17:22:54] <Wolf_> so making grinding noise but feed rollers arent turning?
[17:22:54] <zeeshan> BeachBumPete: mig is easier :P
[17:22:56] <pfred1> sometimes spools can get tangled
[17:23:00] <zeeshan> wolf yea
[17:23:02] <BeachBumPete> naah :)
[17:23:06] <zeeshan> the wire spool isnt turning
[17:23:09] <zeeshan> but i can hear grinding
[17:23:58] <Wolf_> yeah, that can’t be good
[17:24:12] <pfred1> stinking Lincoln!
[17:24:20] * pfred1 is True Blue
[17:24:35] <Wolf_> my miller stops feeding all the time, but its always caused by running out of wire :P
[17:24:52] <pfred1> my MIG is some Italian off brand
[17:25:13] <pfred1> it is super ancient
[17:28:49] <sync> Wolf_: you need to get wire in drums
[17:29:19] <sync> the 660 type drums have around 500kg of wire in them
[17:29:23] <sync> that should last a while
[17:29:27] <Wolf_> heh, I don’t actually weld that much, 30lb do
[17:30:10] <pfred1> wire rusts hangign around here
[17:31:38] <Frank_6> anyone plays games? :)
[17:31:48] <zeeshan> O
[17:31:50] <zeeshan> wire came out
[17:31:50] <zeeshan> ;[
[17:31:53] <zeeshan> duh
[17:32:12] <Frank_6> i am the youngest linuxcncster? on the irc at least
[17:32:25] <BeachBumPete> are you 6?
[17:32:26] <malcom2073_> Age is in the mind
[17:32:27] <Frank_6> 23ye old
[17:32:36] <BeachBumPete> damn you are old
[17:32:38] <Frank_6> im 5
[17:32:40] <pfred1> malcom2073_ lately age has been in my back
[17:32:46] <Frank_6> lol
[17:32:50] <malcom2073_> pfred1: Heh
[17:33:08] <pfred1> I out my back out setting up the controller for my CNC machine
[17:33:17] <pfred1> put my back out even
[17:33:40] <malcom2073_> I hear you, there's a reason my cnc control box is sitting in my office rather than in the garage: Don't wanna haul it out there, it's like 70lbs
[17:33:41] <pfred1> crawling under benches is a young man's game
[17:34:35] <pfred1> I just moved my machine
[17:34:57] <Frank_6> is it? im 23 and my cncrouter is 10 inches from the ground to worksheet, i hated to build that thing
[17:35:04] <Frank_6> i feel like 30 now
[17:35:11] <malcom2073_> It's all downhill
[17:35:16] <pfred1> what's it on the floor?
[17:35:29] <malcom2073_> The router I'm building is going to be 1500lbs, gonna be no moving that thing easily
[17:35:33] <pfred1> yeah I'd say I physically started going downholl after 24, or so
[17:35:41] <pfred1> there's a long way down from there
[17:35:56] <Wolf_> meh, 3x heavy machines to move, + cold weather… yay
[17:36:00] <Frank_6> mine is going to end up 900lbs total
[17:36:10] <Frank_6> any pics malcom?
[17:36:25] <malcom2073_> It's just a pile of aluminum extrusion and plates atm heh
[17:36:39] <pfred1> I doubt my machine weighs more than about 100 pounds but it ia awkward weight
[17:36:46] <Frank_6> ohh the ones that you bought cheap? on a trailer or some thing
[17:37:21] <malcom2073_> Yeah, some of it has been sold, but about half of it is now earmarked for the router. Starting to collect 1/4" aluminum plate for connectors
[17:37:25] <Frank_6> i think you showed a pic of that
[17:38:01] <pfred1> my machine is mostly wood
[17:38:30] <Frank_6> how are the linear rails going to be?
[17:39:02] <pfred1> I used drawer slides
[17:39:10] <pfred1> http://i.imgur.com/t75QZEc.jpg
[17:39:18] <malcom2073_> I've got 3.6 meter 30mm square rails, and 1.5 meter 35mm square rails,
[17:39:27] <malcom2073_> pfred1: I love your machine btw
[17:39:34] <pfred1> malcom2073_ thanks
[17:39:43] <pfred1> I just hit 174 IPM on the X axis with it
[17:40:17] <pfred1> that's full traverse in 6.7 seconds
[17:40:21] <malcom2073_> Nice
[17:40:38] <pfred1> yeah I'm not going to run it that fast though I can't stop it where i want to at that speed
[17:41:04] <pfred1> plus the lead screw looks like it is in hyperspace
[17:41:24] <pfred1> 1,7400 RPM then
[17:41:29] <pfred1> 1,740 RPM then
[17:41:58] <pfred1> so I'm going to hold it to 100 IPM
[17:42:52] <Tom_L> zeeshan, welder whippin yer arse?
[17:43:04] <pfred1> man up and just stick weld
[17:43:43] <CaptHindsight> https://www.botfactory.co/page/product
[17:43:45] <Tom_L> acetylene with coat hangar
[17:43:46] <pfred1> thin electrodes are freaking expensive though
[17:43:48] <jdh> with some car batteries, jumper cable and nails for electordes
[17:43:53] <pfred1> I've doen that too
[17:44:17] <pfred1> I'm not hooked up with a gas house here
[17:44:20] <malcom2073_> CaptHindsight: That's cute, I like the whole "does everything in one operation" thing
[17:44:54] <pfred1> I've welded 4-40 washers to brake line with a gas torch
[17:46:08] <pfred1> on edge, of course
[17:46:51] <pfred1> I don't think i could even do that with TIG
[17:47:13] <Wolf_> tig welding with 0.030” mig wire as filler is fun
[17:48:45] <pfred1> Wolf_ I was watching a video where a guy twisted up MIG wire to make TIG rods
[17:52:20] <Wolf_> I’ve never been that hard up for tig rods lol
[17:53:56] <pfred1> he just can't be bothered stockign them he does it with a drill
[17:54:10] <pfred1> just a single strand to straighten and stiffen it
[17:55:39] <sync> I don't like how hard mig wire welds are
[17:55:41] <MacGalempsy> well, I have been trying to PID tune this damn drive for a few hours now and the waveform is quite curious.
[17:56:11] <Frank_6> malcom2073_: niceeeee guides, overkill, i have 25mm hiwin and its overkill too as far as sheetspecs go
[17:56:21] <pfred1> sync that would be down the the wire you're using
[17:56:21] <MacGalempsy> it is like the drive has some kind of soft start, or something. the first couple of waves on peak, then they die off to a nice consistent wave
[17:56:47] <sync> yeah pfred1, but the run of the mill cheapshit er70s wire produces hard welds
[17:57:44] <pfred1> that's the other hting I like about stick welding i can select what kind of rod I want to use
[17:58:28] <sync> same with mig or tig
[17:58:31] <CaptHindsight> pfred1: whycome MIG and TIG don't let you choose your filler materials?
[17:58:37] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlPWFT73Qns Oooh
[17:58:41] <SpeedEvil> I thought that was dead
[17:58:46] <SpeedEvil> Ferrari F1 2000 049 engine cam cover at 1/4 scale. Toolpath test.
[18:04:47] <MacGalempsy> its interesting that they could get a cam model of that part, when you cannot even get a factory manual for ferraris
[18:05:46] <pfred1> MacGalempsy if you need a manual you have no business working on a Ferrari
[18:06:44] <MacGalempsy> im sure no one remembers every single torque spec
[18:07:03] <SpeedEvil> MacGalempsy: he diddn't
[18:07:12] <SpeedEvil> MacGalempsy: he reverse engineered it from photos
[18:07:16] <sync> MacGalempsy: you can
[18:07:40] <Loetmichel> pfred1: i once repaired an old jaguar XJS... 6 feet of documentations on the rack... the binder with the electric schematics was as thick as a NY telephle book
[18:07:49] <Loetmichel> ... thats not better than too less information
[18:07:56] <Loetmichel> you dont find ANYTHING in there
[18:08:25] <Loetmichel> telephone
[18:08:30] <pfred1> Loetmichel the last 5 feet of their electric schematics was errata data of course
[18:09:11] <Loetmichel> actually not
[18:09:12] <pfred1> the brits can't wire up a loo without makign a mess of things
[18:09:34] <Loetmichel> just a sh**load of torques, dismantling instructions and stuff
[18:09:49] <Loetmichel> seemed to be written for a second grader
[18:10:08] <Loetmichel> but was still mostly irrelevant to the task at hand
[18:10:16] <pfred1> the target age for technical documentaiton is usually 12
[18:10:37] <pfred1> least that's what our military uses
[18:11:28] <Loetmichel> my boss sold computers to the u.s military... i know how manuals for us soldiers look ;)
[18:12:07] <Loetmichel> is it possible that the u.s. has a higher than normal rate of illiterates in their army?
[18:12:39] <pfred1> we cab only hope
[18:12:44] <pfred1> can only hope
[18:13:00] <MacGalempsy> I believe there are oral and written placement tests
[18:13:10] <MacGalempsy> and the requirement of a highschool equivalency
[18:13:11] <pfred1> because the time they didn't spend book learning they were spending learning how to kill!
[18:13:24] <Loetmichel> because the amount of "comics" (icons) whe had to include in those manuals were insane
[18:13:45] <_methods> well we beat the germans at least
[18:13:51] <_methods> 2 times
[18:14:12] <Loetmichel> _methods: with the help if a dozen other countrys ;)
[18:14:20] <_methods> heheh
[18:14:24] <_methods> technicalities
[18:14:32] <pfred1> Loetmichel we just include them so they don't feel bad
[18:15:03] <pfred1> like we let that clown Degaulle "liberate" Paris
[18:15:24] <Loetmichel> now that trump is POTUS... lets see how well you fair against the chinese in the next 4 years... i am BOT betting on an US win this time...
[18:15:47] <pfred1> maybe we don't want to win?
[18:15:50] <Loetmichel> (fair/fare?)
[18:16:21] <pfred1> I've worked manufacturing jobs and they kind of suck
[18:16:44] <Loetmichel> pfred1: so the opinions differ.
[18:17:06] <Loetmichel> me manufacturing things is the only thing that keeps me sane in the "production manager" job i have
[18:17:36] <Loetmichel> a workday on the desk without MAKING anything is barely bearable.
[18:17:51] <pfred1> then you sit there and drill the same hole over, and over for a week straight
[18:17:57] <Loetmichel> two in a row are close to insanity
[18:18:54] <Loetmichel> i actually did some time in a assembly line job
[18:18:55] <sync> pfred1: bad management then
[18:18:58] <MacGalempsy> pfred1: that is what the Peons are for
[18:19:00] <Loetmichel> its kinda relaxing
[18:19:14] <pfred1> MacGalempsy not everyone can be a chief
[18:19:34] <MacGalempsy> that is true too
[18:19:39] <Loetmichel> after a few days your body knows how to work and you can let your imagination wanderaround without paying attention to what your body does meanwhile
[18:20:25] <MacGalempsy> man, I really hope PID tuning this 4th axis doesnt take too much time.
[18:20:29] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: That's called being shit faced drunk or alcoholic
[18:20:39] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: hmm?
[18:20:44] <MacGalempsy> half the hard work is already done, but everytime the PID tuning takes forever...
[18:21:09] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Re: "after a few days your body knows how to work and you can let your imagination wanderaround without paying attention to what your body does meanwhile " That's called being shit faced drunk or alcoholic
[18:21:19] <Loetmichel> no
[18:21:23] <Jymmm> Yes!
[18:21:24] <Loetmichel> more like "zen"
[18:21:32] <pfred1> more like dope
[18:21:55] <Jymmm> pfred1: If you have ever seen a "functioning alocoholic" you would understand
[18:21:58] <Loetmichel> most assmbly line jobs are repeatative enough that you can do them by reflex after a few days
[18:22:11] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: that's muscle memory
[18:22:14] <pfred1> I've known some pretty dysfunctional alkies
[18:22:24] <Loetmichel> no real need to actually recognize at what you are looking at
[18:22:31] <Loetmichel> so the mind can wander
[18:22:38] <Loetmichel> if there IS a mind that can wander
[18:22:59] <pfred1> I worked wiht one guy named Jimmy the Drunk
[18:23:12] <pfred1> he'd go on benders where he'd black out for days on end
[18:23:31] <Jymmm> pfred1: but thats not a "functional alcoholic"
[18:23:40] <pfred1> I nevr said he was
[18:23:54] <pfred1> when he was sober he was OK though
[18:24:21] <Loetmichel> i knew a man at a factory that does electrical enclosures for indsutrial machines.
[18:24:26] <pfred1> I worked with this other electrician that could defy gravity
[18:24:45] <Loetmichel> i NEVER met him without 10 feet of alcohol smell around him
[18:24:55] <pfred1> he'd stager at such an angle to the level plane that you'd swear he must be using strings to hold his ass up
[18:25:07] <Loetmichel> and he did the "dent removal" with a small copper hammer right before the painting
[18:25:21] <Loetmichel> never missed a dent in the time i was working there
[18:26:05] <Loetmichel> that i would call a "functional alcoholic"
[18:26:26] <Loetmichel> he wasnt really able to do a sane conversation to
[18:26:28] <Loetmichel> tho
[18:27:51] <pfred1> I didn't get all the dents out of the enclosure I just made
[18:28:32] <pfred1> she's still a little rough http://i.imgur.com/lCbaRHu.jpg
[18:29:04] <Loetmichel> hihi
[18:29:17] <Loetmichel> my line of work is a BIT more sopisticated ...
[18:29:23] <Loetmichel> a CNC router helps tho ;)
[18:29:43] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16426&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[18:29:47] <Loetmichel> or
[18:30:00] <pfred1> that sheet metal didn't start out flat
[18:30:12] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16414&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- or that
[18:30:18] <pfred1> it's scrap pool railing
[18:30:39] <pfred1> but I got a whole pile of it from when I changed the caps on my pool
[18:30:57] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16411&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- that 4mm thick backplate for the 19" enclosure took quite a while tho ;)
[18:31:51] <Loetmichel> considering that a chinese CNC6040 with a 2mm 2 flute mill bit made it ;)
[18:32:52] <Loetmichel> ... its fun to do one-offs tho. much more than series
[18:33:07] <pfred1> oh this remote control box is a one off
[18:33:31] <Loetmichel> pfred1: you didnt do that at work tho, did you?
[18:33:38] <pfred1> what work?
[18:33:48] <Loetmichel> ah, no job?
[18:33:49] <pfred1> oh at aork
[18:34:03] <pfred1> yeah no I did this at home in my garage
[18:35:18] <Loetmichel> i am in the lucky position that those "design" (really more like tinkering away) stuff is my daily job.
[18:35:24] <pfred1> I worked in a tool and die shop making these http://www.componentexchangeillinois.com/Auburn/System-components/Old-Style/Motor-Components/Gasoline-Motor-Component/J-s-tool-fluid-motion-grinding-wheel-dresser-rfg-750A-picture.jpg
[18:36:27] <Loetmichel> sadly i have no means to work on steel at that level of accuacy at the company.
[18:36:52] <pfred1> yeah if a 0.0001 indicator moved we wouldn't ship them
[18:37:14] <pfred1> I mean for the 6 grand that hting cost it has to be on the money
[18:37:44] <Loetmichel> i had to beg the boss for 3 years to get that CNC 604 instead of taking the metal home and use my little hobby CNC mill do do the prototypes...
[18:37:56] <Loetmichel> 6040
[18:38:10] <Loetmichel> to do
[18:38:25] <pfred1> we had mills and turning centers but all the finish work was done with grinders
[18:38:41] <sync> hm, interesting
[18:38:48] <sync> never seen a dresser like that
[18:39:38] <pfred1> sync its the cadillac
[18:40:02] <sync> all grinders I've seen just use a diaform
[18:42:09] <pfred1> sync i never even know how they worked. I could just make them
[18:43:01] <pfred1> there's a relationship between the diamond point, and the back of the upright to the mike pins
[18:44:00] <sync> ah the only fancy thing is that it tilts
[18:44:10] <andypugh> sync: There is a Diaform on eBay in the UK at the moment. It’s not expensive, I am almost tempted
[18:44:14] <pfred1> it swivels too
[18:44:58] <andypugh> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/391623321875
[18:45:04] <pfred1> I should have nicked enough parts to put one together for myself when I was workign thre
[18:45:36] <pfred1> it'sd have been easy we threrw so many parts out
[18:46:05] <andypugh> I found a diaform in the crate never opened at a previous employer. They didn’t even know they had it.
[18:46:32] <sync> yeah they are nice but so huge
[18:46:59] <pfred1> most of our wheel dressers could fit in the palm of your hand
[18:47:18] <pfred1> though we made some big models
[18:48:15] <pfred1> we made gigantic live centers too
[18:48:34] <pfred1> like 5 and 6 feet tall
[18:48:54] <sync> idk how to operate that thing properly tho
[18:49:07] <sync> looks like a lot of pain compared to the diaform
[18:49:18] <andypugh> this version seems more univerally applicable than the one you showed. Don’t you need to remove the guards for yours? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221668586481
[18:50:14] <sync> oh that is a good one as well andypugh
[18:51:36] <andypugh> Not that I even actually own a grinder
[18:52:40] <pfred1> surface grinders are the snizzle
[18:53:10] <pfred1> you just ain't doing precision machining without one
[18:53:12] <andypugh> (well, I will at some unspecified future time, when my dad dies. Currently it’s sort of in a wierd limbo where it belongs to him but he is in a Home miles away and not in any condition to use it :-(
[18:53:58] <pfred1> andypugh well you'd better visit him a lot because when he's gone he's gone
[18:54:54] <marioBR> I need a small mill cnc to make branding irons. Buy or build ?
[18:54:56] <andypugh> I went to see him today. 500 mile round trip. He didn’t say much, and fell asleep. There’s a lot to be said for sudden death.
[18:55:19] <pfred1> andypugh you have to visit more for yo uthan him
[18:55:33] <pfred1> because you're the one that is going to have to live with yourself
[18:55:52] <andypugh> Anyway, we own a model OH here: http://www.lathes.co.uk/churchill-universal/
[18:55:57] <marioBR> visiti your father often man. I lost my brother killed 4 months ago.
[18:55:59] <__rob> hello
[18:56:12] <__rob> was tapping a fixture plate, 250 or something holes, M4
[18:56:15] <pfred1> regret is the only sin in this life
[18:56:24] <__rob> got about 120 through and the tap snapped
[18:56:36] <__rob> wondering what exactly I can do to get this to go smoother
[18:56:42] <__rob> was using a tension compression head
[18:56:48] <__rob> spiral tap
[18:56:52] <andypugh> What style of tap?
[18:56:59] <__rob> I'll find the exact one
[18:57:02] <andypugh> Sprial point or spiral flute?
[18:57:17] <MacGalempsy> thread mill?
[18:57:19] <andypugh> through hole or not?
[18:57:40] <__rob> https://www.cromwell.co.uk/shop/cutting-tools/hss-ev-production-taps/m4x0-7-green-sp-fl-371-hss-ev-nit-tap/p/SWT1857015G
[18:57:42] <pfred1> that's how it goes with tools you get X number of ops then that's it
[18:57:49] <__rob> well, the hole is through hole
[18:57:54] <__rob> I didn't go the whole way through
[18:58:11] <__rob> I'll be flipping the part and taking off 5 mm, so didn't bother
[18:58:30] <andypugh> For a through hole you might want a spiral point, even for a not-through tapping
[18:58:30] <__rob> hole is drilled to 3.3
[18:58:34] <pfred1> places that care thake the tools out of service at X- and sharpen most places just run tools til they crap out
[18:59:13] <__rob> got an example of a preferred tap andypugh
[18:59:14] <andypugh> __rob: Ring Cromwell and ask. Their salesfolk are generally helpful and knowedgable.
[19:00:06] <andypugh> More to the point, did you get the broken tap out?
[19:00:06] <__rob> I've gone elsewhere now. I ordered a load of drill bits which went on back order.. a week later an they hadn't even contacted me to say they still hadn't ordered from supplier
[19:00:09] <__rob> pretty poor
[19:00:18] <__rob> not yet, trying some alum
[19:00:32] <__rob> saw someone have success with it
[19:00:44] <__rob> its bubbling more around the tap, so fingers crossed
[19:01:27] <andypugh> Hmm, that is pretty poor. My experience with Cromwell is pretty good. And I can walk to my local one on a saturday morning, which is very useful.
[19:02:01] <__rob> http://www.cutwel.co.uk/thread-making/machine-taps/metric-coarse-machine-taps/ufs-e70m-series-spiral-flute-metric-coarse-machine-taps-bright-finish-with-interupted-flutes-for-aluminium-1
[19:02:12] <__rob> http://www.cutwel.co.uk/thread-making/machine-taps/metric-coarse-machine-taps/yg-1-tc163-series-spiral-flute-metric-coarse-machine-taps-uncoated-for-aluminium-1
[19:02:17] <__rob> these are the 2 I bought to try
[19:02:47] <__rob> thats handy you can walk to them.. I just assumed it was all being taken care of .. had having to chase things up
[19:02:55] <__rob> hate having to*
[19:03:14] <__rob> what are your thoughts on those ?
[19:03:17] <andypugh> Spiral point push the swarf out the opposite side of the hole. That might be better for through-holes
[19:03:23] <__rob> I am tempted to drill out too 3.4 to play it safe
[19:03:37] <__rob> but I'd like a nice tight thread
[19:04:16] <andypugh> For aluminium you could consider thread-forming taps. But that needs _exactly_ the right drill.
[19:04:30] <__rob> yea that was suggested by someone here before
[19:04:32] <sync> some even ream the holes
[19:04:48] <andypugh> Do you have a spindle encoder?
[19:04:52] <__rob> no
[19:05:09] <andypugh> You should.
[19:05:12] <__rob> the tension/compression head should allow for the play in the spindle speed tho
[19:05:21] <Loetmichel> andypugh: our sheet metal guy uses thread forming taps in his trumpf even for steel
[19:05:33] <Loetmichel> including 8mm thick sheets
[19:05:44] <andypugh> Loetmichel: For sheet, I can see it.
[19:06:27] <andypugh> I have (once or twice) drilled holes in sheet with the drill in reverse to make a burr to tap.
[19:06:57] <Loetmichel> (if you hear the machine work 8mm thick steel sheet you think its breaking apart any second
[19:06:58] <sync> flow drilling is nice for that
[19:07:14] <__rob> so do you think its better to go right through the hole then?
[19:07:22] <__rob> 3-4 mm out the otherside
[19:07:34] <andypugh> __rob: I have a feeling that chip-control is probably better with rigid-tapping than compression tapping.
[19:07:36] <Loetmichel> the coffe cup on the desk in the office on the other side of the production facility is still looking like in juarassic park ;)
[19:07:37] <__rob> rather then reverse 3/4 way down
[19:09:26] <andypugh> With a compression head the thread and tap need to push back with enough force to engage the clutch, so you are pushing the tap into the thread. That _feels_ bad but I have done absolutely no engineering analysis.
[19:14:27] <sync> andypugh: with just one of those floating chucks you don't need anything like that at all
[19:15:08] <andypugh> But LinuxCNC does rigid tapping so easily.
[19:18:27] <malcom2073_> andypugh: If it works on a drill press, it'll work on cnc :-P
[19:18:58] <malcom2073_> Oh you're talking about tension/compression, nevermind
[19:20:16] <__rob> just looking at some thread mills
[19:20:21] <__rob> perhaps that is better
[19:21:21] <__rob> does that require a sync'd spindle ?
[19:21:43] <__rob> looks like they would just cut cirlces, not a spiral
[19:22:15] <andypugh> No, thread-milling is done with circular interpolation and a z move
[19:23:49] <__rob> http://iscar.co.nz/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/fig.41-300x282.jpg
[19:23:55] <__rob> right, but looking at something like that
[19:24:17] <__rob> looks like if the rpm wasn't right, you'd just end up with a larger hole
[19:24:42] <__rob> are the grooves sloped ?
[19:25:01] <__rob> or at right angles to the endmill axis
[19:25:02] <andypugh> The thread mill is smaller than the hole.
[19:25:17] <malcom2073_> I believe that they're not, but they're slightly smaller than the threadp itch so the z move cuts the right thread width
[19:25:31] <__rob> ahh right
[19:25:37] <__rob> that makes sense
[19:25:55] <__rob> so they are limited to the pitch they can create
[19:25:56] <malcom2073_> Though that sounds like it would work better on larger holes... but it's entirely possible that the difference is insignificant enough to not matter
[19:25:58] <__rob> just not the diameter
[19:26:18] <malcom2073_> __rob: v
[19:26:19] <malcom2073_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDnavOlGcdc
[19:26:23] <__rob> found some small ones
[19:26:34] <__rob> says they do m4
[19:26:40] <malcom2073_> Wow heh, that's tiny
[19:27:15] <andypugh> Fun to read about someone who needed to thread-mill M2 in titanium.
[19:27:32] <__rob> m2 is as small as I go
[19:27:51] <__rob> be handy for that, I've broken so many hand taps
[19:28:30] <__rob> and m2 never seems to come out
[19:28:44] <andypugh> Search this page for the word “terrifying” http://www.f1-2000.co.uk/index.php?f=conrods
[19:39:12] <SpeedEvil> :)
[19:39:24] <SpeedEvil> andypugh: I like that there is recent progress
[19:39:59] <andypugh> Not on the site, but he is still at it
[19:41:29] <SpeedEvil> Saw a recent youtube
[19:46:20] <andypugh> Talking of YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGkvyN6s9cY
[19:54:50] <__rob> such a nice part that guy made
[19:55:06] <__rob> sort of thing i'd make a mistake at the last stage
[20:50:49] <skunkworks> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4JSaKif0dE
[20:57:57] <cradek> ?
[21:00:00] <skunkworks> just making chips that hurt
[21:00:19] <cradek> ah
[21:19:07] <Jymmm> Got portasaw? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrMhZEIweA0
[21:20:19] <Wolf_> seen that, thinking about gettign one for my brushless portaband
[21:20:31] <Wolf_> guy also needs to learn what Hack means…
[21:22:02] <Jymmm> hack?
[21:22:45] <Wolf_> my opinion, buying/getting something remade and bolting something else in to it isn’t a hack lol
[21:23:09] <Wolf_> remade/premade
[21:24:43] <Wolf_> http://www.swagoffroad.com/SWAG-Portaband-Tables-Accessories_c_35.html
[21:26:16] <Jymmm> how is what he's selling "premade" ?
[21:28:22] * Jymmm pokes Wolf_
[21:28:48] <Wolf_> well, its just a table for the portaband, I wouldnt call it a hack
[21:29:17] <Wolf_> least imo…
[21:30:45] <Jymmm> then what were you calling a hack?
[21:30:55] <Wolf_> I also have a rigged table/stand for my deep cut portaband that I made up like 8-9 yrs ago
[21:31:41] <Wolf_> the guys vid, he has it titled “AMAZING MILWAUKEE TOOL HACK!!”
[21:31:55] <Jymmm> OH, I didn't see that.
[21:32:15] <Jymmm> it works for this too http://www.harborfreight.com/10-amp-deep-cut-variable-speed-band-saw-kit-62800.html
[21:33:57] <Wolf_> now a hack on the other hand, https://www.milwaukeetool.com/power-tools/cordless/2130-20 you can feed 19v from a laptop power supply in to the battery input tabs and it will run fine (1.2A draw) lol
[22:14:15] <CaptHindsight> the HF bandsaw lasted about 2 hours before I returned it
[22:15:00] <XXCoder> thats 1.5 more hours than I expected
[22:15:13] <XXCoder> buidl your own, with plans from woodgears
[22:15:35] <CaptHindsight> and all I cut was some unistrut
[22:16:15] <CaptHindsight> took me years to wear out my older Milwaukee tools
[22:18:22] <CaptHindsight> usually due to abuse, e.g. 1" masonry bit in 1/2" drill, 2" boring bit in right angle drill
[22:20:31] <Wolf_> I broke the chuck off my 1/2” cordless m18 drill (with a 3/4” 12” long ship auger bit) other then that oops, only thing I have had is motors die from use (easy replacement on the cordless tool)
[22:21:04] <CaptHindsight> yeah auger bits really do it
[22:21:17] <CaptHindsight> https://youtu.be/DmXqJHbuRXQ?t=1m5s check out this monster pipe bender
[22:22:04] <Wolf_> woah lol
[22:26:42] <Jymmm> pfff... I got one of these in the back shed
[22:27:00] <Jymmm> those*
[22:47:30] <tiwake> Jymmm: you been smoking?
[22:47:37] <tiwake> must use a pipe that size
[22:52:46] <Jymmm> hahaha
[22:53:25] <Jymmm> tiwake: Yeah, I like to get INTO smokin ;)
[22:53:41] <tiwake> Jymmm: become the pipe
[22:53:50] <XXCoder> nice, mini pipe bender
[22:54:59] <XXCoder> fancy IO2 coating
[22:55:11] <XXCoder> oops FeO I meany
[23:01:00] <tiwake> https://www.frontpagemag.com/point/264902/envirofascists-dc-want-food-rationing-environment-daniel-greenfield
[23:02:02] <XXCoder> quote ironic, using "fascists"
[23:04:07] <tiwake> I wonder if that includes hunting
[23:04:40] <tiwake> "hunting emissions tax"
[23:05:05] <XXCoder> equier is better source than that
[23:06:30] <tiwake> XXCoder: because you disagree with how he describes the "left"?
[23:06:41] <XXCoder> nah
[23:07:28] <tiwake> the co-founder of green peace left when they started to call for banning chlorine... the co-founder told them "you cant just ban an element from existing guys" and left
[23:07:53] <XXCoder> for usage in what?
[23:09:06] <tiwake> yes
[23:09:16] <XXCoder> for usage in yes?
[23:10:10] <XXCoder> or did you mean in any way?
[23:10:13] <tiwake> not sure if the context was for usage in anything, or for simply existing... people like that don't think things through and think that chlorine is a man made substance
[23:10:33] <tiwake> salt... heh..
[23:10:35] <tiwake> whatever
[23:10:37] <XXCoder> theres wrackos in left right center and everything else
[23:10:50] <XXCoder> *everywhere
[23:11:22] <tiwake> yeah, whackos such as the ones that sign the deceleration of independence
[23:11:38] <XXCoder> "The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool." feyman
[23:13:22] <XXCoder> this is why I'm very strong supporter of science
[23:13:31] <XXCoder> hm little laggy
[23:13:57] <tiwake> the science of global warming then I suppose too, right?
[23:14:20] * Wolf_ checks, not warm out…
[23:14:23] <tiwake> because who can refute the great science
[23:14:39] <XXCoder> after a year, oct was finally NOT record hottest month. though it is cooler because ice is lowest ever, of all time
[23:14:54] <XXCoder> in fact ice is STILL melting there
[23:15:06] <XXCoder> 35F hotter than normal at north pole
[23:15:28] <XXCoder> feel the burn.
[23:15:44] <tiwake> ice in the freezer is melting
[23:18:18] <XXCoder> Know what is best way to boil a frog?
[23:18:27] <XXCoder> you don't drop it in boiling water
[23:18:28] <Wolf_> microwave
[23:18:39] <XXCoder> you just put it in lukewarm water and slowly heat it up
[23:18:44] <tiwake> laser to burn off the warts