#linuxcnc | Logs for 2016-11-13

[02:24:50] <Deejay> moin
[05:42:40] <jthornton> morning
[05:43:34] <XXCoder> hey jt
[05:43:57] <jthornton> what's up this morning
[05:44:10] <XXCoder> printing 608 caps for my bro
[05:44:27] <XXCoder> 2 didnt fit well so since i finally tweaked it to work im printing replacements
[05:44:28] <jthornton> cool
[05:44:32] <archivist> warming fingers on a cup of coffee
[05:44:35] <XXCoder> holes still small :(
[05:44:49] <jthornton> waiting for coffee to brew here
[05:45:39] <XXCoder> 3d printing really need to get on arcs
[05:45:46] <XXCoder> its pure g1
[05:46:02] <XXCoder> (ignoring other g codes that dont apply to movement for cutting or print)
[05:46:16] <XXCoder> arcs would really fix holes problem
[05:46:27] <jthornton> isn't a limitation of the slicer really the no arc thing
[05:46:43] <XXCoder> stl dont have arcs
[05:47:05] <XXCoder> however ldraw convert has basically angle of walls convert to arc feature
[05:47:13] <XXCoder> say if less than 120 degree, convert to arc
[05:47:16] <XXCoder> er more
[05:48:06] <Jymmm> You're in your shop working on a project minding your own busy, and then this happens... https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=WNvGR3j2XmM#t=227
[05:48:13] <malcom2073_> XXCoder: There are firmwares that interpolate allowing for smooth circles rather than straight lines
[05:48:38] <XXCoder> lol jy
[05:48:38] <jthornton> I'm using the latest Marlin in mine
[05:48:55] <XXCoder> martin here, source on sd seems to bve laest
[05:48:59] <malcom2073_> I don't know if any actually run on the arduino stuff. I used linuxcnc to solve that particular problem heh
[05:48:59] <XXCoder> be latest
[05:49:36] <malcom2073_> tinyg does it, as does smoothie, but both have their own host of issues
[05:49:44] <jthornton> the Marlin I got was very old and you could not even use it with the latest Ardunio
[05:49:49] <XXCoder> cat bite tag heh
[05:50:03] <jthornton> I don't need any more issues lol
[05:50:34] <malcom2073_> hehe
[05:50:37] <XXCoder> malcom2073_: so marlin has that? if so can enable or is it on by default or?
[05:50:44] <malcom2073_> XXCoder: Don't believe marlin does
[05:51:10] <XXCoder> hm ok
[05:51:37] <XXCoder> 3d printer non-machinist orgin sucks
[05:52:04] <archivist> teach linuxcnc and take advantage of the tp that merges g1s to arcs
[05:52:32] <XXCoder> maybe combined with g28 (if I remember right)
[05:52:34] <archivist> get off the arrguinos carp
[05:53:21] <XXCoder> linuxcnc dont manage temperates and stuff so yeah :P
[05:53:39] <malcom2073_> Only problem with linuxcnc is the extruder and motion axies are tied together, machinekit solved that though
[05:53:46] <XXCoder> pink cheated by making that aspect manuak
[05:53:48] <jthornton> you just need the arduino for temp
[05:53:49] <malcom2073_> XXCoder: With some HAL work it does :-D
[05:54:10] <malcom2073_> And an arduino
[05:54:45] <jthornton> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:52946
[05:55:06] <XXCoder> yep my printer fails on that
[05:55:12] <XXCoder> and artoicle there is not for slic3r
[05:56:46] <jthornton> I still need to try out cura
[05:56:59] <XXCoder> cura is very nice but slicer stuff sucks
[05:57:05] <XXCoder> far too few option
[05:57:14] <XXCoder> no z offset no retract/return settings
[05:58:00] <jthornton> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USA29CuYOvk
[05:58:00] <XXCoder> i initally started with cura then moved to slic3r
[05:59:06] <malcom2073_> I love simplify3d
[05:59:25] <XXCoder> mal my biggest problem is holes is too small
[05:59:31] <XXCoder> outside dimensions is nice
[05:59:41] <XXCoder> inside not so much. .3 or more smaller
[05:59:45] <malcom2073_> Well you have to design your part for 3d printing: oversize holdes
[05:59:47] <malcom2073_> holes*
[05:59:57] <XXCoder> thats fine if im designing
[05:59:59] <XXCoder> but not always
[06:00:20] <malcom2073_> If you print parts not properly designed for 3d printing, you're in for a world of headache
[06:00:35] <XXCoder> yet other people can print it fine
[06:00:45] <XXCoder> pointing problem to my machine not design
[06:00:46] <malcom2073_> Because they've spent the hours tweaking their printer for that particular part
[06:01:19] <malcom2073_> The problem is the part. Your machine is missing the bandaid they use
[06:01:45] <XXCoder> ugh I like cnc mill stuff. hole is 1 inch? its made close to one inch
[06:01:52] <malcom2073_> heh
[06:02:20] <XXCoder> like i said previously 3d printing needs arc
[06:02:26] <XXCoder> g2 g3 and some other stuff
[06:02:36] <XXCoder> makes holes closer (but still bit off)
[06:02:45] <XXCoder> less tweaking magic to get stuff fitting
[06:07:10] <XXCoder> http://reprap.org/wiki/ArcCompensation interesting
[06:07:55] <XXCoder> 2008
[06:10:45] <jthornton> malcom2073_: is Simplify3D worth $150?
[06:11:08] <XXCoder> xy compension apparently fixes that
[06:11:16] <XXCoder> makes outside smaller inside bigger
[06:11:24] <XXCoder> bigger hole smaller outside features
[06:11:51] <Jymmm> This guy is funny https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Te06Y26Hyiw
[06:15:49] <malcom2073_> jthornton: If you have $150 to spare and have a decent enough printer to justify it: yes
[06:16:22] <jthornton> then it is yes and no lol
[06:17:24] <XXCoder> 2 computer license apparently
[06:17:53] <malcom2073_> I could get perfectly fine prints out of my mendelmax using slic3r. Once I built my linear actuator printer though, it wasn't good enough, tried most all the slicers around but still was having some issues, simplify3d made for much cleaner and smoother prints on that printer
[06:23:15] <jthornton> I have two linear rail actuators for the Z on my CoreXY 300x300x300 build
[06:24:35] <malcom2073_> Nice, I want to rebuild mine to make it a h-bot with a moving vertical platen
[06:24:56] <malcom2073_> There's a tiny bit of flex in my z axis which I can notice when it zips around corners
[06:26:45] <malcom2073_> Got pictures of yours?
[06:27:19] <jthornton> I just have some parts collected so far
[06:27:32] <Jymmm> 60V Dewalt battery https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8b9ZYt6MzHc
[06:27:34] <XXCoder> my printer is printing damn neat now :D so glad I found that damned bolt hole so can keep rod away fro0m screw
[06:29:22] <jthornton> I can't even get mine to print lol
[06:29:52] <XXCoder> whats wrong
[06:30:02] <XXCoder> i cant remember
[06:30:26] <jthornton> one place the wall is messed up and strings out
[06:32:27] <jthornton> last time I tried to print the nozzle was flush with the glass so nothing could come out lol
[06:33:19] <XXCoder> heh I use slic3r z offset to fix first layer issues
[06:33:44] <XXCoder> mine it comes out anyway, but in dots. probably due to pressure lifting x assembly (decouplers)
[06:33:54] <jthornton> it was set and printing fine...
[06:34:09] <XXCoder> yeah leveling dont seem to retain forever
[06:34:24] <XXCoder> I had to relevel today. did nothing between perfect print and todat
[06:37:00] <jthornton> yea that is weird, I ordered a bit of 2020 to make the back braces
[06:37:36] <XXCoder> im STILL waiting for resistors
[06:38:09] <jthornton> just tried to get Craftware to work on this linux pc but it seems broken and missing some lib
[06:38:44] <XXCoder> I checked that one out
[06:38:58] <XXCoder> not very good unfortunately. MUCH fewer settings. even less thjan cura
[06:39:13] <XXCoder> it may slice better dunno but harder to tweak
[06:41:07] <XXCoder> I cancelled my .46 nozzle fix, first print: external .2 too big, inside .3 too small
[06:41:18] <XXCoder> lets see how it fits after xy comp
[06:41:21] <tiwake> XXCoder: you should sleep
[06:41:30] <XXCoder> not for another hour
[06:44:28] <jthornton> malcom2073_: what kind of license does simplfy 3d have? can you have it on more than one PC?
[06:44:42] <XXCoder> jthornton: yeah 2 pc
[06:44:45] <malcom2073_> It used to be 3
[06:44:48] <XXCoder> 150 bucks for 2 seat
[06:44:49] <malcom2073_> I guess they turned it down heh
[06:50:21] <jthornton> An internet connection is required for the installation and continued use of the software.
[06:50:32] <jthornton> well that is a deal breaker for me
[06:50:39] <XXCoder> it would be for me too
[06:51:12] <SpeedEvil> And continued operation of the company and support
[06:54:25] <XXCoder> jthornton: know whats weird? source on flash drive is martlin 1.0.6 something, but version on board is 1.0.0
[06:54:27] <XXCoder> jeez
[06:54:51] <XXCoder> so I do have to update it evenually. any changes since 1.0 to latest?
[06:55:04] <XXCoder> latest is apparently 1.1.0 rc6 something
[06:55:25] <jthornton> yea you need to get the latest arduino for the latest marlin
[06:55:46] <jthornton> the latest homes better like LinuxCNC does
[06:56:00] <XXCoder> touch off then slowly touch off agaib?
[06:57:06] <jthornton> yep
[06:57:39] <XXCoder> try 1: 9.75 peg hole 9.999
[06:58:26] <XXCoder> hm need to adjust some more. hole is perfect but outside is too small. think need bump nozzle size up a little then adjust again
[06:58:59] <XXCoder> or i just overdid it, just need split xy comp
[07:01:41] <_methods> first full ghost in the shell trailer
[07:01:43] <_methods> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4VmJcZR0Yg
[07:01:44] <jthornton> a little more tweaking
[07:01:57] <XXCoder> arent tweaking fun lol
[07:02:01] <XXCoder> one last attempt then bed
[07:03:45] <XXCoder> xy comp of -.15 mm
[07:04:01] <XXCoder> first was zero to see what size is like without it, then second -.3mm
[07:04:02] <malcom2073_> Continued use?
[07:04:03] <malcom2073_> That's also new
[07:04:06] <malcom2073_> I may not upgrade then haha
[07:04:43] <XXCoder> _methods: reminds me of star wars that lady in mask :P
[07:04:45] <malcom2073_> Eh, if it ever becomes a problem I'll crack the authentication stuff.
[07:05:52] <_methods> love that movie hope they dont screw it up
[07:06:09] <XXCoder> yeah sometimes trailer is far better than mocie
[07:19:06] <XXCoder> 9.90 hole 9.92 peg
[07:19:09] <XXCoder> approx anyway
[07:19:20] <malcom2073_> Press fit!
[07:19:47] <XXCoder> yep
[07:20:14] <XXCoder> pretty hard to pull apart
[07:20:18] <jthornton> hammer time
[07:20:35] <XXCoder> nah just press and it firs'
[07:21:27] <XXCoder> uhoh
[07:21:34] <XXCoder> outside diam,eter 19.84
[07:21:39] <XXCoder> as in 1984 the book lol
[07:23:33] <XXCoder> jthornton: its still a little iffy but poretty close. much better than bad setup it has before
[07:24:51] <jthornton> cool, I need to get mine back up and going
[07:27:27] <XXCoder> yeah need to setup better cooling system, I keep running into heat creep issues even with short prints lol
[07:27:37] <XXCoder> well night
[07:36:13] <jthornton> night
[08:11:08] <JT-Shop> hmm -3C here
[08:24:19] <Tom_L> 34°
[11:03:07] <Demure_> Hey all, how do you set rising edge or falling edge for the stepper driver, or does it not matter? I can't seem to find it.
[11:05:35] <archivist> just invert that pin
[11:06:47] <CaptHindsight> Demure_: that would in your HAL file
[11:06:56] <CaptHindsight> would be
[11:07:26] <CaptHindsight> Demure_: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/config_stepper.html#sub:Changing-the-polarity
[11:08:54] * archivist whacks CaptHindsight 2.4 docs
[11:10:16] <Demure_> Hmm, can't seem to find it
[11:10:29] <Demure_> Is it rising edge by default?
[11:11:17] <archivist> I use a scope and read the manual
[11:11:56] <JT-Shop> what is "it"?
[11:12:41] <Demure_> The output. I'm afraid I've lost a lot of knowledge through using the config, everything it did is hard to understand because it's foreign.
[11:12:48] <Demure_> The config never gave the option for rising or falling edge
[11:13:17] <Demure_> I have some issues with my cuts (Looks like lost steps) and I cannot for the life of me figure out what is causing it
[11:13:36] <JT-Shop> parallel port stepgen?
[11:13:45] <Demure_> Mesa (5i25)
[11:14:00] <CaptHindsight> Demure_: are you taking about the stepper configuration wizard?
[11:14:14] <Demure_> CaptHindsight: The PNCconf, the MESA configuration wizard
[11:14:18] <JT-Shop> 7i76?
[11:14:27] <Demure_> Yup
[11:15:18] <CaptHindsight> Demure_: the wizards are just to get a basic config going, you need to edit the files yourself after that
[11:15:33] <Demure_> I know, and I've done so and everything seems to be working fine so far
[11:15:38] <CaptHindsight> they don't cover every option and use case
[11:15:41] <Demure_> Just trying to figure out where the issue I'm having is coming from
[11:15:54] <JT-Shop> TB2 is the 7I76s main step and direction output con
[11:15:54] <JT-Shop> nector. Both polarities of step
[11:15:54] <JT-Shop> and direction signals are provided.
[11:16:53] <JT-Shop> I take that to mean that step0+ is the rising edge and step0- is the falling edge of the step
[11:17:00] <CaptHindsight> Demure_: so you're not sure if you are losing steps or if it's some other problem yet?
[11:17:01] <JT-Shop> but may be wrong
[11:17:13] <Demure_> Ah I see, now I understand.
[11:17:15] <JT-Shop> Demure_: did it work fine then start having problems?
[11:17:31] <Demure_> CaptHindsight: I have zero clue what the problem is by now, I've tried a lot but nothing seems to change the problem, either make it worse or less.
[11:17:43] <Demure_> No, it's a new controller. But in general it works fine, let me upload an image
[11:18:05] <JT-Shop> I know what they look like, I sell them :)
[11:18:08] <CaptHindsight> Demure_: describe the problem as best that you can
[11:18:10] <Demure_> Every succesive Z layer is off by a slight slight amount
[11:18:29] <Demure_> http://i.imgur.com/AlJnB9S.jpg
[11:18:39] <Demure_> This only has two depths of cut
[11:18:40] <CaptHindsight> by the same amount? same direction?
[11:18:44] <Demure_> Yup
[11:18:48] <Demure_> Completely uniform
[11:18:52] <pcw_home> with single ended drives, 7I76 STEP+ outputs are for rising edge
[11:19:09] <Demure_> pcw_home: Thanks, then it's correctly set up
[11:19:41] <JT-Shop> yea my swag was correct I think
[11:19:51] <Demure_> CaptHindsight: I've tried adjusting the gibs, I've tried adjusting the backlash, I've tried adjusting the servo thread, I've tried adjusting the speeds, I've tried different cuts
[11:19:55] <Demure_> But the result remains identical
[11:20:09] <Demure_> I've tried different positions on the machine to see if it was a particular area on the ballscrew
[11:20:11] <pcw_home> also its a good idea to double the drives minimum step time
[11:20:18] <Demure_> Now it's cutting with another drive
[11:20:39] <Demure_> I can give that a try, thanks
[11:20:58] <pcw_home> (people dont realize that minimum step times are just that, right at the edge of not working)
[11:21:07] <Demure_> Is that the Steplen?
[11:21:12] <pcw_home> yes
[11:21:19] <Demure_> It's currently at 2500.
[11:21:23] <Demure_> I'll give 5000 a try.
[11:21:29] <CaptHindsight> Demure_: what type of design is this machine? Have a pic?
[11:21:34] <pcw_home> and the drive spec?
[11:21:43] <Demure_> http://www.lathes.co.uk/emcomiller/img20.jpg
[11:21:46] <Demure_> Emco F1
[11:21:49] <Demure_> Leadshine AM882H drivers
[11:22:08] <Demure_> (Pretty much the same as the AM882, because you won't find info on the AM882H)
[11:22:18] <CaptHindsight> sometimes people ask questions about a machine and it ends up being made from wood and plumbing pipes held together by hot melt
[11:22:23] <pcw_home> Someone also had an issues with those or similar
[11:22:28] <Demure_> I understand
[11:22:39] <Demure_> But I tried the same Gcode in alu and it gave the same results
[11:22:41] <pcw_home> needed 3500 ns to actually work
[11:22:59] <Demure_> Really?
[11:23:03] <archivist> have to drive the optos properly too
[11:23:16] <Demure_> What do you mean by that?
[11:23:49] <pcw_home> I doubt if they are ever tested
[11:23:55] <archivist> sufficient current
[11:24:16] <Demure_> I have 2amps for 4 drives atm.
[11:24:20] <Demure_> From my description, would you think mechanical or electronic?
[11:24:37] <Demure_> If I have a smaller depth of cut you see it more clearly, very finely stepped in one direction
[11:24:46] <archivist> no, the opto current, set by any external R, there is an internal R too
[11:25:06] <Demure_> Then I'm afraid I don't fully understand what you're talking about.
[11:25:11] <Demure_> An internal setting to the drive?
[11:25:34] <Demure_> (Pardon my ignorance, still learning)
[11:25:53] <archivist> a resistor in series with the opto led
[11:25:56] <pcw_home> the 7I76 has fairly stiff 5V signals so that should not be an issue
[11:26:10] <archivist> 5v is ok
[11:27:15] <pcw_home> if the drive is positive edge triggered you should use the +Step and common ground
[11:27:44] <pcw_home> (or -STEP and common +5V)
[11:27:58] <BeachBumPete> are the surface finish issues showing a pattern? the photo you posted looks like it could just be chip clearance issues or something like that to me
[11:28:15] <Demure_> I did, so that's at least correct.
[11:28:24] <Demure_> Let me take a new more clear image
[11:28:30] <Demure_> With the smaller depth of cut it's more clear
[11:28:33] <archivist> measure the step
[11:28:52] <archivist> what size endmill
[11:29:03] <archivist> is it deflection
[11:29:25] <Demure_> It's a 6mm endmill sticking out about 20mm
[11:29:28] <Demure_> It looks too neat for it
[11:29:37] <Demure_> One sec
[11:29:39] <pcw_home> if the step polarity is wrong you will typically lose/gain steps on direction changes
[11:30:18] <pcw_home> (since the direction change setup/hold times may be violated)
[11:30:48] <Demure_> I'll double check that, as well
[11:31:15] <Demure_> It's possible that I might've set it up connecting step + to step + of the drive and step - connected to step - of the board
[11:31:23] <Demure_> Which sounds different than what you are suggesting
[11:33:19] <pcw_home> that should work also
[11:33:57] <pcw_home> its has better noise immunity (but slightly lower drive strength)
[11:34:38] <Demure_> http://i.imgur.com/DsnYmah.jpg
[11:34:43] <Demure_> Here's a better image
[11:35:03] <pcw_home> I would try 5000 ns steplen/stepspace first (and say 20000 ns setup/hold)
[11:35:12] <Demure_> This happens on two sides, but on the parallel sides there is no issue (Logical I guess)
[11:35:22] <Demure_> Ok, I'll change that and let it cut now
[11:37:13] <Demure_> keep stepspace at 2500?
[11:37:26] <pcw_home> both 5000
[11:37:34] <codepython777> anyone has a shapeoko here?
[11:38:06] <Demure_> So 20000 hold, 20000 setup, 5000 space and 5000 length
[11:39:42] <pcw_home> that should work with almost any driver
[11:39:48] <codepython777> anyone has a carvey?
[11:40:11] <pcw_home> ( to 100 KHz max of course )
[11:41:18] <Demure_> Ok, it's cutting now.
[11:41:49] <Demure_> archivist: http://i.imgur.com/DsnYmah.jpg Would you say this is tool deflection?
[11:42:17] <Demure_> I've also noticed my X motor does get a fair bit warmer than my Y motor, though they should both do equally as much
[11:42:29] <Demure_> It's not hand-burning warm, but after doing this test 10 times it's not pleasant, either.
[11:43:39] <archivist> I am only seeing one side there, some people use large cuts and thin tools and wonder
[11:44:11] <CaptHindsight> codepython777: from time to time someone mentions shapeoko in here
[11:45:38] <Demure_> archivist: http://i.imgur.com/CUcUdNt.jpg It happens at the blue lines. The other sides look great.
[11:46:13] <Demure_> I hear no whining or complaining from the machine, I did the same path in alu with exactly the same result, now working in plastic to make sure no huge forces were at play and causing issues
[11:46:27] <Demure_> But since the same happens in the plastic as the alu I figured it was not mechanical but electrical / software
[11:48:25] <Demure_> Depth of cut is now 1mm iirc so I'm not too woried
[12:02:50] <codepython777> CaptHindsight: I'm looking to get started into cutting
[12:03:00] <codepython777> CaptHindsight: was looking at shapeoko, nomad, carvey, stuff similar
[12:03:08] <codepython777> CaptHindsight: pocketnc is beyond my budget right now
[12:04:38] <Demure_> I think you'd be happier with a router like a shapeko over a pocketnc anyway, the pocketnc has a very small working envelope and the 4th + 5th axis might just become headaches when you're new
[12:05:13] <codepython777> Demure_: I'm looking to cut small things only
[12:05:23] <Demure_> What things specifically?
[12:05:23] <codepython777> Demure_: nothing bigger than 5"
[12:05:45] <codepython777> Demure_: metal, to mount motors on channels etc. Alum. I dont think with my budget i can do steel
[12:06:09] <Demure_> I don't think the PocketNC is all that good in alu, either.
[12:06:25] <Demure_> Not much clue on all the others, though.
[12:06:38] <codepython777> Demure_: at least in the demos, it shows alum blocks being cut
[12:06:52] <Demure_> Yes, but in the demos you also hear it chattering like crazy
[12:07:26] <Demure_> In theory and endless time you can 'cut' alu on most machines, even the Roland MDX15 I started on, but in reality it's not really a great thing to do
[12:07:41] <Demure_> You'll just create a whole bunch of headaches
[12:11:23] <codepython777> Demure_: 5"x5"x 2" type alum cuts - nomad/carvey/shapeoko/x-carve - is what i was looking at.
[12:11:34] <codepython777> Demure_: i have very low volume cuts. 1 piece per 2 days is fine with me
[12:12:11] <Demure_> I think you'd be better off asking someone with more experience when it comes to cutting alu on those machines
[12:12:17] <Demure_> Sorry!
[12:13:13] <codepython777> Demure_: what are you cutting?
[12:14:06] <nubcake> hi
[12:14:13] <codepython777> hi nubcake
[12:14:16] <codepython777> what are you upto?
[12:14:18] <Demure_> I also cut alu / brass mostly, but I'm using a mill, second hand (Emco F1)
[12:14:27] <Demure_> At least, once it works well ;)
[12:14:41] <nubcake> codepython777: not much, just got home from grandpas birthday
[12:14:42] <Demure_> Before I was using a Roland MDX15 and making molds with Renshape / silicone / PU.
[12:15:06] <codepython777> Demure_: I have 3d models that i would like to cut...speed is not a problem for me
[12:15:11] <codepython777> I mean slow is fine
[12:16:06] <Demure_> I understand, but slow can create a whole slew of other problems, too, bad surface finish, chatter, etc
[12:16:20] <Demure_> But I cannot help you when it comes to advice on those machines as I have no experience on them.
[12:16:43] <Demure_> I'd try the shapeko forum, it seems to have a community going that could at least help you with advice on that machine
[12:18:44] <codepython777> Demure_: thanks. I've some friends who got shapeoko and like it
[12:20:01] <Demure_> Then I suggest you convince 'em to help you make some of your models in alu
[12:20:06] <Demure_> And be there with them
[12:20:15] <Demure_> That way you have a good understanding of what's possible and the results
[12:21:43] <codepython777> nice, thanks
[12:30:02] <codepython777> Demure_: a 300w spindle - how does wattage correlate with cutting metal?
[12:30:07] <codepython777> is that wattage sufficient?
[12:30:24] <Demure_> No clue my friend, I'm but a beginner myself.
[12:30:39] <codepython777> what is the wattage on your mill spindle?
[12:30:42] <Demure_> Sounds like it should work, though, my machine has 440w
[12:30:47] <archivist> 300w is a bit under 1/2 hp
[12:30:47] <codepython777> cool
[12:30:54] <Demure_> My old machine had 10w
[12:30:56] <Demure_> :')
[12:31:03] <codepython777> carvey has 300w - not sure about the nomad 883 or pocket nc
[12:31:06] <archivist> 746 watts per hp
[12:31:15] <codepython777> hi archivist
[12:31:18] <roycroft> 300w is about 1/2hp
[12:31:23] <codepython777> Demure_: and you could cut alum with 10w?
[12:31:30] <archivist> pocket nc is a design error, you dont want that
[12:31:32] <roycroft> you can make light passes in soft metals with that
[12:31:52] <codepython777> archivist: I'm looking to cut 5" x 5" x 2" alum blocks
[12:32:05] <Tom_L> archivist not even a clock maker???
[12:32:06] <archivist> real milling machine
[12:32:07] <Tom_L> :)
[12:32:46] <Demure_> codepython777: No, most definitely couldn't cut alu with 10w. It was more of a mechanical 'rubbing'. Sure, it worked, but cutting 2mm off of the top of a small ridge took an hour or so.
[12:33:00] <Demure_> I made some tiny parts, yes,
[12:33:05] <Demure_> But I wouldn't ever want to do it again...
[12:33:34] <archivist> I make tiny parts...but with sufficient power :)
[12:33:41] <codepython777> archivist: i need to turn stl files into alum shapes
[12:34:13] <Demure_> pcw_home: YES. I think you've cracked the nutter. I cut the same test again, NO ISSUES. I cut the first test again with a very aggressive cut and I can see the very slightest of ridges (Almost invisible) which seems more like a backlash thing that is easier to fix.
[12:34:36] <Demure_> codepython777: Turning an STL file into alu is not as simple as it seems, it's not like a 3D printer where it's all done automatically
[12:34:48] <Demure_> Prepare to do a lot of learning!
[12:34:52] <codepython777> Demure_: my shapes are pretty simple
[12:35:02] <Tom_L> how many?
[12:35:09] <Demure_> Simple or not, you need to program 'em nonetheless
[12:35:50] <codepython777> Demure_: Just want to make sure i buy something that will help.
[12:36:07] <Demure_> I understand, that's why I suggest you use it at a friend's place and cut a part that you want to make
[12:36:12] <Demure_> Only way you will know for sure it will help you
[12:36:57] <Demure_> archivist, pcw_home, CaptHindsight, JT-Shop, thank you all so much for your input and help. :) The lost steps issue is completely solved, it was the stepper timings in the end. HURRAY. 3 days of stressing but now it's good. Even the surface finish improved.
[12:37:12] <archivist> some simple parts can be directly coded in gcode
[12:38:01] <archivist> define "simple parts" because that varies a lot
[12:38:17] <Demure_> An image would help best
[12:39:42] <codepython777> archivist: I need to cut some motor mounts 40mm circular clamps type stuff to mount motors and such
[12:39:44] <archivist> some need the help of cam to create gcode, some can use commands direct on a machine, some write gcode
[12:40:02] <codepython777> archivist: was looking at carvey (300w spindle)
[12:40:19] <codepython777> or nomad or shapeoko or x-carve - mostly need to cut alum
[12:40:32] <archivist> code dont keep repeating, seen the backlog
[12:40:59] <codepython777> archivist: Thanks!
[12:41:37] <archivist> a motor mount is almost trivial for MDI and direct button pressing
[12:42:02] <archivist> no need for cad/cam/stl
[12:43:01] <codepython777> archivist: Most of the parts that i need are simple enough. But I still want something that can cut based off cad/cam
[12:43:44] <miss0r> I'm thinking of building a small surface grinder. that can do 100x100mm ish size. That is, only if I am unabled to find one and buy it. it needs to be a small desktop size unit. do you guys have a brand/make name you know will do nicely in a small size, so I can scouer the internet for a seller?
[12:45:11] <archivist> surface grinder and small is an oxymoron
[12:45:39] <archivist> unless you want amateur level
[12:46:16] <miss0r> I bet. I have a huge one in storage. but I will never be able to fit it in here. it takes up 1,5 x 4 meters of shopfloor(including movement)
[12:47:04] <miss0r> Why is that anyway? because they are made poorly?
[12:48:27] <archivist> most need to be rigid and heavy to do what you want
[12:48:59] <miss0r> In some cases that might be true. but removing the last 0.01mm doesn't take much rigidity
[12:49:47] <archivist> it is the vibration and finish
[12:50:43] <DaViruz> miss0r: that is huge
[12:50:46] <miss0r> yeah. I was realy hoping for something good. I don't mind if it is heavy. Its the m^3 I can't spare
[12:50:52] <miss0r> DaViruz: it is
[12:50:55] <DaViruz> mose i've seen have been a lot more compact than that
[12:51:00] <CaptHindsight> Demure_: \0/
[12:51:04] <archivist> time to extend the workshop :)
[12:51:09] <DaViruz> in fact i saw one listed just now that i'm quite interested in
[12:52:02] <miss0r> DaViruz: Where are you from ? You can have mine for next to nothing :) it even includes a permamagnet surface 800x350mm
[12:52:04] <DaViruz> https://www.blocket.se/dalarna/Planslip_70192095.htm?ca=9&w=3
[12:52:05] <DaViruz> sweden
[12:52:25] <miss0r> Now that looks like something I could fit in here :)
[12:52:39] <DaViruz> you're from denmark right?
[12:52:59] <miss0r> yeah. Didn't I send you some tooling at some point in time?
[12:53:09] <DaViruz> not that i can recall
[12:53:16] <miss0r> Or was that another one from sweden.
[12:53:20] <miss0r> it probally was then :)
[12:53:57] <DaViruz> i can't really fit anything more here though :/
[12:54:20] <miss0r> I have the same problem :) The one I have sitting in storage is a Jacobsen SJ-16
[12:54:48] <DaViruz> and i don't really see how i'd get a surface grinder down into the basement.. :)
[12:54:58] <archivist> in bits
[12:55:02] <miss0r> brute force :)
[12:55:22] <archivist> my 5 axis went upstairs in bits
[12:55:38] <DaViruz> miss0r: oh. the same seller that has that one above have an sj30 as well
[12:56:08] <CaptHindsight> there is still so many old surplus machines in the US that unless storage is free I wouldn't bother
[12:56:08] <DaViruz> in case you need something even larger https://www.blocket.se/kronoberg/Slipmaskin_planslip_Planslipmaskin_Flishugg_37177701.htm?ca=9&w=3
[12:56:33] <miss0r> I'm looking for smaller :D
[12:56:49] <CaptHindsight> miss0r: sell and use the money
[12:57:19] <miss0r> CaptHindsight: I'm thinking of selling it. I just contacted one machine seller at some point, and he wasn't interrested. Probally because it is old
[12:58:01] <CaptHindsight> miss0r: used machine dealers really only want 100K machines and up
[12:58:15] <miss0r> I'll sell it. that is the only thing that makes sense. I have to run. See you guys around
[12:58:24] <CaptHindsight> the rest is almost a nuisance to them
[13:04:44] <archivist> DaViruz, did you see my reply ?
[14:26:16] <SpeedEvil> http://imgur.com/gallery/aO3pD17 on the topic of well tuned control loops
[14:35:20] <andypugh> I saw a hummingbird in San Francisco. It came as a bit of a surprise, I thought they only lived in jungles somewhere exotic.
[14:35:38] <andypugh> (None live in the UK)
[14:36:43] <pcw_home> We have them here in the East bay (across the bay from SF) almost all year round
[14:36:49] <t12> i thibk hunmmingbirds are kinda scary
[14:37:14] <t12> like the only way they could defend themaelves is to fly directly into your eye with their beak
[14:37:46] <DaViruz> appearantly they live from the carribbean up to alaska
[14:38:17] <pcw_home> They are fun, they often fly through the spray when you are watering (and have territorial battles around the feeder)
[14:38:26] <t12> they are suprisingly loud
[14:38:28] <DaViruz> oops no, alaska to chile
[14:39:55] <SpeedEvil> -None in europe though
[14:49:20] <codepython777> https://tallahassee.craigslist.org/tls/5807699808.html - can one convert it to a linux cnc? any good?
[14:54:40] <pink_vampire> you can
[14:55:42] <pink_vampire> it's very easy to get is work with step / dir drivers
[14:57:26] <pink_vampire> it have almost everything you need for make it running
[14:58:17] <pink_vampire> codepython777:
[15:01:22] <CaptHindsight> tiny, easily converted
[15:14:19] <JT-Shop> codepython777: don't expect very much from a sherline mill and you won't be disappointed
[15:17:34] * Wolf_ wonders how hard it would be to CNC convert a K&T 2H
[15:18:15] * JT-Shop wonders what a K&T 2H is???
[15:19:53] <Wolf_> random google http://www.lindsayengraving.com/tour/K&T_Universal/index.html
[15:22:45] <JT-Shop> looks like quite a job
[15:22:55] <Wolf_> one i’m looking at getting is a 5hp horizontal w/ no.50 taper spindle, and also has a universal head with no.40 spindle
[15:23:36] <Wolf_> also kidding about putting CNC on it lol
[15:29:31] <andypugh> Wolf_: I converted a Universal miller: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86MN3CN7Aiw
[15:30:56] <andypugh> Wolf_: skunkworks has a huge CNC K&T: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39q6kvrSBSk
[15:31:11] <Wolf_> guess that makes it not a crazy idea, but I’m also picking up a 645 wells-index mill which only has powwefeed on the Y, thinking that may be more useful to convert
[15:31:12] <andypugh> You only _thought_ you were joking
[15:32:26] <Martiini> is there any linux software to learn cnc, robotics, industrial machine programming ?
[15:33:00] <Wolf_> that skunkworks K&T doesn’t look like the WW2 manual machine I’m getting lol
[15:33:47] <andypugh> No, it was made originally as CNC. Back in 1965
[15:34:06] <andypugh> Must be one of the oldest always-CNC machine around.
[15:34:17] <Wolf_> thats pretty cool
[15:37:14] <Wolf_> the model 2h has power feed on all 3 axis and I would be mainly doing “heavy” roughing with it probably, at most I’ll add cheap DRO and hall effect tach to it
[16:18:12] <nubcake> n8 everyone
[16:29:31] <Deejay> gn8
[16:57:49] <zeeshan> man cnc zone has too many forums.
[16:58:06] <Wolf_> lol yeah
[17:01:13] <andypugh> Aye, not something you can even try to keep up with
[17:02:02] <zeeshan> they have all these sub forums for brands
[17:02:06] <zeeshan> and nakamura isnt even on there
[17:02:15] <zeeshan> so i have no clue where the hell i'd post crap about my lathe
[17:06:41] <andypugh> Does anyone remember that “Cutting tool” on eBay that I thought might be a face driver?
[17:07:06] <Wolf_> eh
[17:07:36] <Tom_L> andypugh it would be in the logs
[17:07:40] <andypugh> Here it is
[17:07:42] <andypugh> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201699059654
[17:07:42] <Tom_L> if you rcall what day
[17:09:02] <andypugh> Just saying I was right, it _is_ a face driver.
[17:09:44] <andypugh> And, after a bit if a regrind of the tangs: https://goo.gl/photos/UEXC7noGtNaLzhde6
[17:09:47] <andypugh> It works well
[17:10:37] <andypugh> Sorry, wrong link
[17:10:38] <andypugh> https://goo.gl/photos/2so9SEE38P1en2yC9
[17:11:55] <Wolf_> was that stud puller fully diy?
[17:12:24] <andypugh> Making the arbor for the cup-wheel to sharpen the driver properly concentric everywhere was a pain. What I really neeeded was a face driver for the job…
[17:13:14] <Wolf_> http://i.imgur.com/jLgemdA.jpg would do it :P
[17:13:31] <andypugh> Wolf_: The pneumatic drawbar? Yes, apart from the two valve-spring collets.
[17:14:02] <Wolf_> would something like that work on a no50 taper machine
[17:15:09] <andypugh> Wolf_: I don’t see why not. It would need to be bigger, of course. And then I think that the release cylinder might need to be hydraulic.
[17:15:26] <Wolf_> hmm
[17:15:36] <andypugh> Or a tandem cylinder.
[17:16:01] <Wolf_> I think I have a couple triple 4” bookmarked
[17:19:25] <Wolf_> might be a idea to mess around with, or look in to making something for the universal head, once I find a drive gear for it… and once I get the machine lol
[17:26:36] <Wolf_> also need to find some how to for running that cutter and tool grinder…
[17:27:11] <andypugh> Well, if you have the horizontal arbor and an encoder, making gears is easy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFTHY5U8v-U
[17:28:17] <Wolf_> yeah would need a 4th axis or a driven divider head, need a helical gear that gets mounted on a no. 50 taper
[17:34:39] <andypugh> Well, the 50-taper part is easy. No point even thinking of making one.
[17:34:59] <Wolf_> yeah, just mod a mill holder
[17:38:01] <andypugh> The hardest part might be measuring the helix angle
[17:39:41] <Wolf_> yeah, was watching Keith Fenner’s youtube channel, he has the same machine and had the same issue of missing drive gear, he roughed out a blank from tool steel then sent it and the gear out of the head to a gear maker
[17:40:23] <andypugh> Any idea what size?
[17:40:37] <andypugh> Might be easier to replace both with a matched pair.
[17:40:37] <Wolf_> no idea
[17:40:52] <Wolf_> I didn’t even think of that lol
[17:41:51] <andypugh> My mill has 33/66. Looks like ÂŁ60 for a pair of off-the-shelf gears in 20MOD: http://hpcgears.com/pdf_c33/24.66-24.69.pdf
[17:42:58] <Wolf_> should be some fun math to figure out what the gear size is that is missing, unless its in the manuals that are coming with the machine
[17:43:19] <andypugh> It’s not actually very difficult
[17:44:14] <andypugh> And my gear spreadsheet should make it even easier: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_I5LGzEBaRcZFamOKsH1bFi3n1_P85J0qZEqkxUOhQ4/edit#gid=921498712
[17:47:42] <andypugh> archivist: Someobdy has outbid me on that mystery “Spirit Level”. So it’s all yours
[17:48:47] <Tom_L> hah
[17:48:55] <Wolf_> https://youtu.be/kANvdzoVUfw?t=9m56s is the same head as the machine I’m looking at (I think) except that mine lacks the fancy built in arm to swing it
[17:50:32] <zeeshan> andypugh: you're crazy you know that right?
[17:50:45] <Tom_L> and you're not?
[17:50:50] <zeeshan> no
[17:50:51] <zeeshan> he's intense.
[17:50:58] <andypugh> zeeshan: Is that just a general observation, or based on something specific?
[17:51:01] <zeeshan> the frigging hand coded 4th axis work
[17:51:09] <zeeshan> proof ^
[17:51:12] <Tom_L> heh
[17:51:23] <Tom_L> yeah that was pretty awesome
[17:51:41] <zeeshan> and through school my fellow students used to say
[17:51:44] <zeeshan> "we'll never use math again"
[17:51:46] <zeeshan> :)
[17:52:04] <andypugh> I wanted parametric cams, I didn’t want to have to re-model and re-CAM things every time the design changed
[17:52:14] <zeeshan> isnt that the point of cam?
[17:52:19] <zeeshan> that's parametric?
[17:52:24] <zeeshan> you change the model, the cam updates?
[17:52:28] <zeeshan> cam program i mean
[17:52:53] <Tom_L> probably all the new ones do
[17:53:16] <zeeshan> i'd make the cam model parametric
[17:53:17] <andypugh> Yeah, but I might want to re-arrange the sequence and phasing of the cams. (I have already decided that I probably want to roate every second ring by 180 degrees)
[17:53:43] <zeeshan> i think the amount of work you did is pretty awesome
[17:53:50] <zeeshan> show's your intellect :)
[17:53:54] <andypugh> Plus, I don’t have a 4-Axis CAM software.
[17:54:51] <zeeshan> im trying to implement cam at work
[17:54:55] <zeeshan> we have a product that changes quite a bit
[17:55:15] <Tom_L> zeeshan i tried some table driven stuff with catis
[17:55:17] <Tom_L> catia
[17:55:24] <Tom_L> that was kinda fun
[17:55:28] <andypugh> Talking about maths after school, my sister proved that wrong recently. Somebody was saying “I fon’t know why we had to learn about pi at school, I have never used it”. To whoch she said “I use it every day, I am a jeweller and that’s how I know how long to cut the gold for a ring”
[17:55:43] <zeeshan> andypugh: hehe
[17:55:55] <zeeshan> Tom_L: yes,. inventor table driven stuff is called "iparts"
[17:55:57] <zeeshan> or iassemblies
[17:55:59] <zeeshan> etc
[17:56:04] <zeeshan> "intelligent"
[17:56:11] <zeeshan> andypugh: what are the cams for?
[17:56:43] <andypugh> I did have the cams driven by paematric CAD in Inventor. But at home I don’t have Excel, and that’s where the data needs to live.
[17:56:50] <andypugh> zeeshan: A clock.
[17:57:05] <Tom_L> andypugh it won't work from a regular txt file?
[17:57:14] <Tom_L> catia will go either way
[17:57:15] <andypugh> It seems not
[17:57:27] <zeeshan> you can bring in text or excel crap into inventor
[17:57:32] <zeeshan> but you need to start using ilogic
[17:57:35] <Tom_L> but it was easier with a spreadsheet
[17:57:35] <zeeshan> or addins
[17:58:13] <andypugh> zeeshan: Yes. But if you have multiple parts sharing parameters you can only change them for every part at the same time by editing the Excel sheet.
[17:58:25] <zeeshan> do you guys think i should make a vlog style youtube videos for my entire lathe conversion?
[17:58:42] <andypugh> Inventor can read the data without Excel, but you can’t edit the data.
[17:58:52] <Tom_L> i think you should keep track somehow so we can watch your progress
[17:58:59] <Tom_L> (provided i live that long)
[17:59:22] <andypugh> I find blogging more useful to me for my projects, to remind myself what I did, when and why.
[17:59:37] <zeeshan> Tom_L: fucker
[17:59:37] <zeeshan> lol
[17:59:46] <zeeshan> the goal is to finish it by spring
[18:00:01] <zeeshan> 5-6 months
[18:00:06] <zeeshan> will it happen, who knows
[18:00:09] <Tom_L> sounds reasonable
[18:00:15] <zeeshan> but i definitely want to post some videos so you guys can help me out :)
[18:00:23] <zeeshan> andypugh: exactly!!!!!!
[18:00:36] <zeeshan> it takes me a little while to recall what i did for my mill.
[18:00:50] <zeeshan> like i totally forgot about the hydraulic stuff.
[18:00:55] <Tom_L> that's partially why i posted the bitfile tutorial. i'd forget how to do it otherwise
[18:01:11] <zeeshan> one thing is clear about my machine.
[18:01:17] <zeeshan> i need to spend some time cleaning it. it's a mess
[18:01:29] <zeeshan> and second i need to go through all the hydraulic and replace o-rings etc
[18:01:42] <zeeshan> so it'll definitely be a fun project
[18:01:44] <Tom_L> you have access to o-rings?
[18:01:49] <zeeshan> yes
[18:01:56] <zeeshan> from work
[18:02:01] <Tom_L> there's a shop here that's all they do
[18:06:50] <zeeshan> i found something interesting and weird on the lathe
[18:07:05] <zeeshan> all the frigging lubrication lines
[18:07:09] <zeeshan> go into the hydraulic blocks also.
[18:07:16] <zeeshan> i have no idea why nakamura did that
[18:07:59] <Tom_L> paint the blocks colors so you can keep track
[18:08:11] <zeeshan> i pretty much tracked everything
[18:08:15] <Tom_L> they're separated aren't they?
[18:08:21] <zeeshan> but i dont understand a couple of devices where the hoses go.
[18:08:25] <zeeshan> Tom_L: yes they are
[18:08:29] <zeeshan> it took me a little while to figure that out
[18:08:32] <zeeshan> im reviewing the videos i made
[18:08:44] <Tom_L> those lines probably didn't need to be as big either
[18:08:48] <zeeshan> and i just realized, the little hose im saying is going to the brake solenoid valve
[18:08:55] <zeeshan> is actually a frigging lubrication line
[18:08:59] <zeeshan> exactly
[18:09:02] <zeeshan> theyre tiny
[18:09:08] <zeeshan> most of the hydraulic lines are -10
[18:09:11] <zeeshan> or -6
[18:09:16] <zeeshan> the lube lines are like -3
[18:10:16] <zeeshan> there is a massive hydraulic cylinder
[18:10:21] <zeeshan> which im not sure what it is doing :p
[18:11:34] <Tom_L> not a barfeed?
[18:11:54] <zeeshan> no
[18:11:59] <zeeshan> damn it i want to redo the video
[18:12:03] <zeeshan> cause now i know what some things are
[18:12:05] <zeeshan> =/!!
[18:12:22] <Wolf_> lol
[18:12:54] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NAKAMURA-TMC-3-TOME-CNC-LATHE-MISC-HYDRAULIC-CYLINDER-30-INCH-/162268445047?hash=item25c7f3f977
[18:13:26] <zeeshan> thats the cylinder
[18:13:50] <zeeshan> it has to be for the positioning of the tail stock
[18:14:15] <zeeshan> cause at the tail stock there are only 4 hoses
[18:14:19] <zeeshan> 2 of them go to the quill
[18:14:26] <zeeshan> 2 of them go to the base of the tail stock
[18:14:31] <zeeshan> which i think is for clamping purposes
[18:15:19] <Tom_L> did they strip the manuals for it too?
[18:15:29] <zeeshan> what do you mean
[18:15:58] <zeeshan> thats that ARPI place
[18:16:06] <zeeshan> i contacted them about manuals
[18:16:08] <zeeshan> they said they dont have
[18:16:27] <Tom_L> any leads to where to find some?
[18:16:31] <zeeshan> yes
[18:16:32] <zeeshan> for 1200
[18:16:32] <zeeshan> :P
[18:17:47] <zeeshan> the thing that's confusing me is if theres 2 hoses for clamping the tail stock against the bed ways
[18:18:01] <zeeshan> then why is there only 1 hose that is acting like a brake
[18:18:06] <zeeshan> for the turrett?
[18:19:03] <zeeshan> for the turrett one hose for clamping made sense to me cause you want the X axis to lock if you lose hydraulic pressure
[18:19:07] <zeeshan> so it doesnt come crashing down
[18:19:30] <zeeshan> OH
[18:19:37] * zeeshan talks to himself
[18:19:43] * Tom_L listens
[18:19:46] <zeeshan> lol
[18:19:53] * Wolf_ watching
[18:20:55] <zeeshan> will deal with it tomorrow
[18:20:57] <zeeshan> ill edit videos and upload
[18:21:03] <Tom_L> is a sc series similar?
[18:21:03] <zeeshan> i need to focus on mazak now :P
[18:21:09] <zeeshan> i'd thinkso
[18:21:18] <Tom_L> http://www.methodsmachine.com/_assets/machines/b7754b0d-8a0a-45e7-b709-4fd543e652e3.pdf
[18:21:19] <zeeshan> i think sc series uses linear bearings though
[18:21:53] <zeeshan> you know what also weirds me out about this lathe
[18:21:57] <zeeshan> i physically measured the gears.
[18:22:04] <zeeshan> for the z axis...
[18:22:07] <zeeshan> they're 1:1.
[18:22:21] <zeeshan> why the heck would they not just direct mount the damn servos?
[18:22:35] <Tom_L> to reverse direction?
[18:22:35] <zeeshan> are they wanting the tsubaki taper lock to slip incase of a crash?
[18:22:38] <Tom_L> who knows
[18:22:49] <zeeshan> yea but you could just electrically reverse direction
[18:22:54] <Tom_L> right
[18:22:54] <zeeshan> theyre just dc servos
[18:23:05] <zeeshan> i'm really thinking its for the taper lock to slip
[18:23:08] <Tom_L> it's there for a reason
[18:23:15] <Tom_L> maybe not a good one..
[18:23:17] <zeeshan> the reason im bringing it up is cause..
[18:23:25] <zeeshan> for the sc series , based on those pictures
[18:23:33] <zeeshan> they're direct mount!
[18:23:42] <zeeshan> but they're red cap fanuc motors which are brushless 3 phase
[18:23:51] <zeeshan> er brushless servos
[18:23:55] <zeeshan> who knows how many phases :P
[18:29:21] <Tom_L> methods is the US supplier?
[18:29:27] <zeeshan> yes
[18:29:50] <zeeshan> i emailed them and at first they're like we don't have anything for this machine
[18:29:57] <zeeshan> then i bs'ed and said nakamura sent me to them.
[18:30:05] <zeeshan> and then they're like OH okay.
[18:30:08] <zeeshan> can you give me the serial #?
[18:30:35] <zeeshan> gave it, and they're like its a canadian sold machine, sorry we cant help you, contact the dealer in canada
[18:30:42] <zeeshan> (which is the dealer that wants 1200$ for 2 manuals)
[18:30:52] <zeeshan> parts manual and electrical manual
[18:30:59] <zeeshan> oh and i think maintenance manual too
[18:31:10] <Tom_L> bonus!
[18:31:24] <zeeshan> honestly, over the next couple of weeks for work
[18:31:37] <zeeshan> i might be checking out different machine shops
[18:31:42] <zeeshan> i'm hoping one of them has a nakamura
[18:31:46] <zeeshan> and i'll just photocopy :P
[18:31:56] <zeeshan> if not, then i'll have to bite the bullet
[18:32:00] <Tom_L> who is the canadian supplier?
[18:32:02] <zeeshan> or just figure it out
[18:32:06] <zeeshan> elliot matsuura
[18:32:10] <Tom_L> ask them who might have them
[18:32:54] <zeeshan> i doubt they'll help
[18:32:56] <Tom_L> might help your search..
[18:33:00] <Tom_L> who knows
[18:33:35] <zeeshan> hey i got an idea.
[18:33:50] <zeeshan> i could bullshit to one of the foreign dealers
[18:33:56] <zeeshan> "i imported this machine, i need manuals"
[18:34:03] <zeeshan> their prices might be a lot different :P
[18:34:11] <Tom_L> worth a shot
[18:34:34] <Tom_L> i've never seen one around here
[18:34:35] <Wolf_> have one of the US guys call it in lol
[18:34:43] <zeeshan> actually shit
[18:34:47] <zeeshan> why dont you do it for me tom LOL
[18:34:54] <zeeshan> just be like "i bought me a canadian nakamura"
[18:34:56] <zeeshan> "Give me manuals"
[18:34:57] <zeeshan> ty
[18:34:58] <Tom_L> maruka is a seller here
[18:34:59] <zeeshan> :D
[18:35:05] <Tom_L> or at least used to be
[18:35:13] <zeeshan> maruka?
[18:35:24] <Tom_L> yeah
[18:36:13] <Tom_L> http://www.marukausa.com/maruka-locations-us-global.html
[18:36:26] <Tom_L> that one in the middle is us
[18:36:43] <Tom_L> it's right by the uni my kid goes to
[18:38:34] <zeeshan> omfg
[18:38:46] <zeeshan> i wonder if the people who bought my control stuff
[18:38:48] <zeeshan> work on nakamura.
[18:38:53] <zeeshan> actually nm
[18:39:00] <zeeshan> fanuc 3t control is on different machines also
[18:39:23] <Tom_L> i'd keep asking until i ran out of ones to ask
[18:39:50] <Wolf_> try calling the dealer parts department? try to gets bits a pieces of parts list scans?
[18:39:54] <Tom_L> they'll all know what the manuals are worth though...
[18:40:09] <zeeshan> Wolf_: rofl
[18:40:40] <Tom_L> go buy the dude in the parts dept a 6 pack...
[18:40:46] <zeeshan> :)
[18:41:25] <zeeshan> the maintenance manual should have all the hydraulic diagrams?
[18:41:38] <Tom_L> couldn't say
[18:41:46] <Tom_L> you'd think it would
[18:44:08] <Tom_L> who wanted a surface grinder? http://www.marukausa.com/MarukaUSAUsedSurplusEquipment.html
[18:44:09] <Tom_L> 3k
[18:45:06] <Valen> I do but not in the USA and not for $3k ;->
[18:49:48] <kyle____> guys i messed up
[18:50:49] <kyle____> http://www.ebay.com/itm/152311935990?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l5998&_trkparms=gh1g%3DI152311935990.N35.S1.R2.TR2
[18:50:53] <kyle____> i bid $50 on it for shiggles
[18:51:01] <kyle____> now i'm going to be stuck with a shitty drill press
[18:51:27] <XXCoder> that is more expensive than my chinese drill press
[18:51:46] <kyle____> wat
[18:51:53] <kyle____> where did you get it? a shitty WEN is $77 on amazon :(
[18:51:55] <XXCoder> 8 bucks isnt too bad for shipping such a giant thing
[18:52:01] <kyle____> yeah totally
[18:52:04] <Wolf_> hope that someone else bids on it
[18:52:12] <kyle____> i was hoping someone would, lol
[18:52:15] <XXCoder> harbour freight on big sale
[18:52:21] <kyle____> oh nice
[18:52:22] <Wolf_> scale… thats not giant..
[18:52:28] <XXCoder> I'd help but I'd be stuck with another one
[18:52:42] <kyle____> it's giant for plain old domestic shipping :P
[18:52:55] <Wolf_> that is true
[18:53:20] <kyle____> then again i bought my king size mattress from amazon
[18:53:37] <XXCoder> fancy
[18:53:39] <Wolf_> amazon is diffrent…
[18:53:46] <kyle____> this is true
[18:53:51] <kyle____> it also only went about 30 miles
[18:54:22] <kyle____> does the top of this drill press look wonky to anyone else or is it just a bad picture?
[18:54:23] <XXCoder> heh order a car on amazon and get GIANT box :P
[18:54:29] <XXCoder> and $10 shipping lol
[18:54:32] <kyle____> http://puu.sh/shnIR/d748492311.png
[18:54:57] <Wolf_> idk, ask the seller how the shipping is so cheap… they might cancel the listing lol
[18:55:13] <XXCoder> thats good idea
[18:55:14] <kyle____> lol, it's still cheaper than what i can get elsewhere right now
[18:55:17] <kyle____> i'll just take it
[18:57:19] <kyle____> might end up spending more to fix it
[18:57:24] <kyle____> yikes
[18:57:33] <Wolf_> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-10-in-Drill-Press-with-Laser-DP103L/205503636
[18:57:35] <kyle____> this model seems to have trouble with shitty plastic bits
[18:59:34] <kyle____> http://www.homedepot.com/p/BESSEY-4-in-Drill-Press-Vise-BV-DP40/205023096
[18:59:36] <kyle____> worth $20?
[19:00:13] <Wolf_> for drilling, maybe lol
[19:00:29] <kyle____> can't get too crazy with milling after all
[19:00:45] <kyle____> endmills and drill press chucks don't get along so i've heard
[19:01:00] <Wolf_> naa drill bit will lift parts out of that, forget trying to mill in it
[19:01:44] <kyle____> this might be a really creative and groundbreaking project that i'm sure no one here has seen someone try before, but i'm looking at milling out an AR-15 80% lower receiver
[19:02:28] <kyle____> i've seen some sources claim you can use a 3/8" endmill on a small drill press and do it in really tiny passes
[19:02:40] <Wolf_> you can peck drill the fire control pocket and then flatten the bottom with a windmill in a drill press
[19:02:48] <kyle____> hmm
[19:02:52] <malcom2073_> Sideways milling in a drill press is asking for you to lose a hand
[19:02:53] <Wolf_> windmill/end mill
[19:03:28] <kyle____> yeah i was pretty thrown off by the idea of holding the piece by hand...
[19:03:36] <Wolf_> but you won’t be doing any milling, just drill/peck to do it
[19:03:39] <kyle____> yeah
[19:03:47] <malcom2073_> Yeah, drill/peck can do it
[19:03:59] <kyle____> sounds fun
[19:04:10] <Wolf_> best way is to find a friend that has a mill :D
[19:04:11] <kyle____> did this with a violin body in soft maple back in high school
[19:04:27] <kyle____> well, my boss has a full machine shop
[19:04:49] <kyle____> the only problem is that i'm in california and the idea of milling an AR-15 lower would probably get me questioned
[19:05:02] <Wolf_> lmao just a little
[19:05:11] <malcom2073_> Well either don't let anyone know you're doing it, or make sure you're doing it legally
[19:05:24] <kyle____> i was aiming for both
[19:05:59] <Wolf_> too much weird things you need to put on it to be cali legal imo
[19:06:08] <kyle____> much regret for moving away from home
[19:06:23] <kyle____> missouri is a much nicer place for someone like me, and my dad already has most of the tools i need
[19:07:26] <kyle____> http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-CROSS-DRILL-PRESS-Vise-X-Y-Clamp-Heavy-Duty-Machine-Slide-Metal-Milling-2-Way-/401169420792?hash=item5d678f91f8:g:HHIAAOSw-itXs99P
[19:07:34] <kyle____> thoughts on something like this?
[19:07:44] <XXCoder> dunno
[19:07:50] <Wolf_> junk, I have one
[19:07:56] <malcom2073_> Looks pretty weak
[19:07:57] <XXCoder> never seen that in use, but then I didnt see much shops
[19:07:59] <kyle____> too much play in the slots yeah?
[19:08:15] <Wolf_> way too much
[19:08:29] <kyle____> this thing does not look precise at all
[19:08:36] <Wolf_> it wobbles all over just drilling in it
[19:08:53] <kyle____> yikes
[19:09:09] <XXCoder> cant tighten it down?
[19:09:15] <XXCoder> remove backlash and stuff
[19:09:19] <Wolf_> on the plus side your work will follow the bent 1/2” drill bits
[19:09:33] <kyle____> maybe there are some that are usable, but at that point i might as well buy an actual mill
[19:09:37] <kyle____> lol
[19:09:59] <kyle____> one of these days i'll learn to stop being a cheapskate
[19:10:11] <Wolf_> yep
[19:10:38] <Wolf_> not too clapped out used mills arent too badly priced
[19:10:56] <kyle____> any pointers? i could do $500
[19:11:02] <kyle____> don't need much
[19:11:11] <malcom2073_> Auctions
[19:11:11] <Wolf_> search craigslist lol
[19:11:19] <Wolf_> ^ that too
[19:11:43] <kyle____> man, you mean i have to actually get off my ass and go somewhere?
[19:11:55] <malcom2073_> Lol, if you think finding one is tough, try moving it once you find it
[19:12:03] <Wolf_> I stumbled across my next machine purchase by buying measuring equipment off Facebook
[19:12:18] <kyle____> moving it? moving it where? hah
[19:12:24] <kyle____> i'll wait on a mill
[19:12:35] <malcom2073_> Moving it from where you buy it to where youll use it
[19:12:36] <kyle____> moving out of this crappy apartment into a house in feb
[19:12:47] <Wolf_> haha, yeah, speaking of that, malcom2073_ wanna help me move some iron sometime in the next few weeks :P
[19:12:57] <zeeshan> Wolf_: nice to see you buying big machines
[19:12:58] <zeeshan> :)
[19:12:59] <malcom2073_> Hah, whatcha moving?
[19:13:19] <kyle____> the hell is a rong fu
[19:13:40] <Duc> 56 8/"////;/'+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaz
[19:13:43] <Duc> 1/
[19:13:52] <malcom2073_> Duc: Cat got your keyboard?
[19:14:08] <Wolf_> K&T 2H, 645 Wells-Index, #2 Cincinnati tool and cutter grinder, and a wards branded atlas lathe
[19:14:18] <Duc> malcom2073: yes can decided to use my keyboard as a bench quick
[19:14:22] <Duc> cat
[19:14:26] <malcom2073_> Haha jesus
[19:14:30] <malcom2073_> Win a big auction?
[19:14:39] <Wolf_> bought out a guys basement
[19:14:55] <zeeshan> how much did it cost!
[19:14:56] <zeeshan> :P
[19:15:23] <zeeshan> how will you get the machines out of the basement?
[19:15:31] <kyle____> wow there are a lot of bridgeports on here
[19:15:34] <Wolf_> too much probably, $6000 for the machines w/ tool holders
[19:15:36] <kyle____> people sure do love their bridgeports
[19:15:53] <malcom2073_> Wolf_: I don't have any heavy transport capability anymore :-P
[19:16:20] <zeeshan> nah
[19:16:20] <Wolf_> lol I was kidding, its a walk out basement, so I can mod a hook lift skid for my truck to pull them up on to
[19:16:22] <zeeshan> thats a great deal
[19:16:39] <zeeshan> dont those k&ts go for a 3-4k?
[19:16:40] <malcom2073_> Nice
[19:16:42] <zeeshan> by themself?
[19:16:43] <zeeshan> or more
[19:16:53] <Wolf_> yeah, 3-4k is about right
[19:17:05] <zeeshan> you pretty much got two machines for free :)
[19:17:11] <Duc> if I ever get divorced the wife will probably sell my shit as a package deal
[19:17:13] <Wolf_> and the 645 is about a 3-4k machine as well
[19:19:10] <Wolf_> once I get them to my shop I’ll have to set my 2 mini mills up on the k&t and take a pic… lol
[19:20:38] <kyle____> what kind of machine is that?
[19:21:44] <Wolf_> https://youtu.be/kANvdzoVUfw similar beast
[19:22:01] <kyle____> that is a gorgeous machine
[19:22:15] <kyle____> why are the bases so huge on these old machines?
[19:22:31] <kyle____> surely not just for extra mass to dampen vibration and whatnot, right?
[19:23:28] <Wolf_> well that machine is neat, oil and coolant tanks are built in to the base
[19:23:36] <kyle____> ahhh that makes sense then
[19:24:03] <kyle____> you would use cutting fluid with this, right?
[19:24:09] <Wolf_> iirc also a 5hp 3phase motor inside the base as well
[19:24:09] <zeeshan> Wolf_: bought the machines to do machining for work or hobby??!
[19:24:22] <Wolf_> zeeshan: both lol
[19:24:25] <kyle____> should have a budget around there in a few months
[19:24:27] <zeeshan> nice :D
[19:24:30] <kyle____> maybe i should find myself one
[19:24:44] <zeeshan> cnc that k&t!
[19:24:50] <Wolf_> lol
[19:24:56] <kyle____> though i get the feeling a beast like that isn't a good first mill
[19:25:41] <Wolf_> probably not, lot of moving parts, powered on all 3 axis on the knee
[19:26:04] <kyle____> yeah, i could probably do just fine with a mini
[19:26:25] <Wolf_> bridgeport type machine IMO if you have the space
[19:26:32] <kyle____> maybe
[19:27:11] <Wolf_> mini are fun toys kinda but can piss you off cause they are so flexy ( I have a micro and mini mill already)
[19:28:27] <Wolf_> zeeshan: I was thinking CNC on the 645 index mill
[19:28:32] <zeeshan> if you aint machining at at least 100 ipm, u aint machining!
[19:28:43] <zeeshan> Wolf_: that'd be sweet
[19:29:24] <Wolf_> its only Y axis power feed on it, so kinda no brainer to covert it, even if at first its just to have power feeds lol
[19:31:20] <Wolf_> should be a fun jump as well, MT2 seig x1 to a no.50 taper machine
[19:31:35] <zeeshan> wells has a cat50?!?
[19:31:36] <zeeshan> thats beefy
[19:31:48] <Duc> your brain would take awhile to realize the shear amount of removal difference between the two mills
[19:31:52] <Wolf_> naa, K&T is cat 50
[19:31:54] <malcom2073_> That's good, cat50 is always up for auctions
[19:32:01] <Duc> .010 DOC verus inch or 2
[19:32:04] <Wolf_> index is only r8
[19:33:32] <Wolf_> hey, my x1 could almost handle 0.02 cuts (with a roughing mill)
[19:34:02] <Wolf_> in aluminum...
[19:35:45] <Duc> better than not having a CNC
[19:36:53] <Wolf_> yeah, having it CNC made it almost tolerable…
[19:37:45] <Duc> Has anyone used a potentiometer to control the jog speed on the axis control panel
[19:37:47] <Duc> ?
[19:37:53] <Wolf_> next I need to find a real sized lathe..
[19:38:16] <Duc> Wolf_:craigslist can be your friend for that and most people are afraid of 3 phase power
[19:38:36] <Wolf_> not me, I use a logitech wireless game pad for my jog
[19:40:28] <Wolf_> Duc: yeah I did notice a ton of 3ph motors for dirt cheap on my area craigslist
[19:40:34] <Wolf_> machines, not so much
[19:41:08] <Duc> how big do you want?
[19:44:04] <Wolf_> not 100% sure yet, 12” swing maybe
[19:45:58] <Duc> http://nashville.craigslist.org/tls/5861249066.html
[19:46:16] <Duc> its 15in swing but not sure you will that many 12in swings
[19:46:35] <Wolf_> amazingly http://frederick.craigslist.org/tls/5871853539.html
[19:48:37] <Duc> not bad. 5c collet closer is nice to have
[19:50:17] <Wolf_> that LeBlond would probably be a nice piece
[19:51:54] <kyle____> maybe i should replace my laser cutter's controlboard first
[19:52:02] <Duc> I like the 15x30 I have but wish for a 15x60 for minor projects
[19:52:10] <kyle____> this garbage seems to think "inside first" means cut the outside profile first so the whole part falls through
[19:52:50] <Wolf_> lol, isn’t that controlled by cam software/
[19:53:25] <kyle____> yeah but the thing only works with this garbage chinese software
[19:53:37] <kyle____> and if you try to attach a debugger to it to reverse engineer it, it kills itself
[19:53:38] <Wolf_> nice
[19:57:17] <Cromaglious_> I am sooooooo broke....
[19:57:45] <Cromaglious_> don't have enough to pay attention...
[19:59:44] <Cromaglious_> going to have to reinstall debian on the linuxcnc machine... it's not talking to the BOB anymore...
[20:00:48] <Cromaglious_> going to see if I can activate gmoccapy while I'm at it...
[20:01:24] <Wolf_> I haven’t touched my cnc machine in 3-4 months =/
[20:01:49] <Duc> I use mine but not enough and I need to finish installing all the options
[20:02:07] <Duc> also need to build a enclosure to keep the chips down on the garage floor
[20:02:26] <zeeshan> im just getting back into rebuilding/retrofitting mine
[20:02:28] <zeeshan> im all excited
[20:02:32] <zeeshan> been too long :P
[20:24:26] <dioz> any of you bitches own a usb snake camera?
[20:24:39] <malcom2073_> My dad does, they're amazing
[20:24:58] <dioz> yah? how long does it go and how high rez is the picture?
[20:25:07] <Wolf_> I have one, not a bad way to spend <$30
[20:25:18] <Wolf_> mine is 50’
[20:25:36] <malcom2073_> Oh a snake, nm. He has an endoscope, it's like 3ft long
[20:25:38] <Wolf_> rez is ok
[20:25:51] <Wolf_> mine is endoscope as well, 5mm head
[20:26:38] <malcom2073_> I don't actually know what the rez is, we use it for inspecting inside machines, engines, anything really. Haven't had an issue seeing cracks in metal and the like
[20:26:41] <Duc> how much does a endoscope cost?
[20:26:49] <dioz> cool
[20:26:51] <malcom2073_> You can pick them up for like $25 nowadays
[20:27:01] <dioz> i need one to look inside some sewer pipes in a house
[20:27:07] <dioz> to figure out if i need to pound ou tthe floor
[20:27:14] <dioz> keep getting backups in a house i own
[20:27:17] <Wolf_> thats why I got a 50’
[20:27:17] <malcom2073_> Dunno about the longer snake ones though
[20:27:44] <Wolf_> you will have to tape it to something like a nylon wire snake
[20:28:12] <dioz> 15 meters is 50' right?
[20:28:33] <dioz> wolf totally. cause that little dinky usb wire won't be firm enough to shove down a long pipe
[20:28:38] <Wolf_> I got it to use w/ a sewer jetter hose setup for the pressure washer
[20:28:47] <dioz> cool
[20:29:52] <Wolf_> 15m is 49.2’
[20:33:19] <kyle____> yeeeeeahhh i got outbid
[20:33:23] <kyle____> what a relief
[20:33:29] <kyle____> https://www.amazon.com/WEN-4208-8-Inch-Speed-Drill/dp/B00HQONFVE
[20:33:39] <Wolf_> lol
[20:37:53] <Duc> I would be too curious about how many times the endoscope was used before it ended up on ebay
[20:40:06] <malcom2073_> Heh... heh....
[20:40:14] <Wolf_> yeah, well, ones we are talking about aren’t medical grade
[20:40:57] <Wolf_> its more like a iPhone FaceTime cam on the end of a usb cord
[20:44:35] <Duc> wouldnt stop me from buying the thing.....just a funny thought when you hand it to a friend
[20:44:39] <Wolf_> so.. 3phase question, would there be a issue putting a 3 phase VFD between a machine and a rotary phase converter?
[20:45:44] <Duc> you should be fine doing that
[20:46:51] <Wolf_> ok, kinda figured it shouldn’t be a issue, was thinking it would help the setup having soft start on the big mill
[20:48:24] <Wolf_> which is the only function I could actually use on that mill lol, motor speed and reversing the motor are useless on the K&T 2H
[20:49:12] <Duc> why do you need a soft start? is the rotary twice the size of the mill motor
[20:49:23] <Wolf_> same size
[20:49:52] <Wolf_> I think he said something about mill not wanting to start unless everything was set in neutral
[20:57:58] <Duc> you might need to upgrade the rotary size instead of a VFD
[20:58:36] <Wolf_> yeah, at least motors seem to be cheap used
[21:00:35] <Duc> Ive had good luck with american rotary
[21:01:31] <Wolf_> would have helped has I payed attention to what I agreed to buy the other night, but I think its coming with a full 5hp rotary setup
[21:01:41] <Wolf_> s/has/had
[21:03:33] <Duc> what size motor is on the K&T
[21:03:40] <sector_0> would I damage my control circuitry if I run the drivers without optoisolation?
[21:03:50] <sector_0> or are they just they for noise protection?
[21:03:52] <Wolf_> 5hp IIRC
[21:04:26] <Wolf_> opto is to keep a oops from frying the computer
[21:08:27] <Duc> might need a 7.5 hp or more for a rotary
[21:09:16] <Wolf_> or just turn the other mill on first lol
[21:10:07] <Duc> LOL
[21:11:03] <Wolf_> Ive heard of guys doing that, using other machines to add to the rotary
[21:19:16] <Duc> someone needs this thing
[21:19:17] <Duc> http://www.ebay.com/itm/EMCO-VMC-100-TRAINER-CNC-MILLING-MACHINE-/311732520017?hash=item4894b4c451:g:EgsAAOSwOdpXx3ga
[21:21:04] <Wolf_> I want the slant bed trainer
[21:24:27] <Duc> hell yea
[21:26:53] <Duc> or bed time
[21:32:44] <Cromaglious_> dioz: I have a 15m 7mm snake samera
[21:33:29] <Cromaglious_> I tape it to a fish tape
[21:33:42] <Cromaglious_> to push it into the drain pipes
[21:35:00] <Cromaglious_> tape it on the outside of the curve.... keeps it from hanging up and chewing up the cable
[21:36:40] <Cromaglious_> get a 3phase motor 3/2s bigger than you device your powering. spin it up with a helper motor and you have your 3rd phase...
[21:37:12] <pink_vampire> is there an earthquake in ny right now?
[21:37:30] <Cromaglious_> 7.8 off NZ today...
[21:39:39] <Marc___> i'm having trouble installing linuxcnc from USB. It fails on the detect and mount CDROM step. It's strange because it definitely mounts the USB to /CDROM
[21:40:05] <pink_vampire> the machine on 5m/min is just tooo fast
[21:40:09] <Cromaglious_> and a bunch of after shocks
[21:40:43] <Marc___> "There was a problme reading data from the CD-ROM. Please make sure it is in the drive. Ef retrying does not work, you should check the integrity of your CD-ROM." "Failed to copy file from CD-ROM. Retry?
[21:42:00] <Marc___> so I've tried launching the shell from the graphical install and there is definitely a cdrom folder with a bunch of stuff in it. Any thoughts?
[21:43:25] <Marc___> The computer doesn't even have a CDROM, and when it's booted up in Mint there is nothing in the CDROM folder. I think it's properly mounting the usb and copying files to the cdrom folder but then something goes wrong and I have no idea what to do
[21:51:40] <Wolf_> no idea here...
[21:52:07] <dioz> Cromaglious_: that was my idea exactly
[22:03:44] <Jymmm> I have 12c, and 24v relays, but no 110V ones! ARGH
[22:31:11] <Jymmm> Individual circuit breaker lockout https://www.amazon.com/Master-Lock-Circuit-Breaker-Standard/dp/B004J173I8/
[22:35:37] <Wolf_> too bad reviews say won’t fit QO breakers seeing thats all I have in both my house and shop
[23:02:18] <Cromaglious_> QO breakers are evil! I much prefer BR or BRD breakers
[23:04:03] <Cromaglious_> Murray or Eaton or Siemons
[23:05:40] <Cromaglious_> I've changed 6 panels out in houses so far and replaced 5 with Murray's and 1 with an Eaton
[23:06:07] <Cromaglious_> BRD capable panels which take BR or BRD's
[23:06:41] <Cromaglious_> easy enough to mod a BRD breaker to a BR
[23:08:04] <Cromaglious_> reminds me I need to find a dvd drive to hook up to this machine to reinstall debian with
[23:29:46] <Jymmm> you could use a usb thumb drive install instead