#linuxcnc | Logs for 2016-11-02

[01:25:14] <rue_house> fffffffffffff I cannot get grbl to go togethor
[01:25:15] <rue_house> damnit
[03:39:15] <miss0r> archivist: Did you see the link I posted last night? is it shiny enough for'ya?
[03:40:02] <pink_vampire> miss0r: what link?
[03:40:39] <archivist> his drill base, yes
[03:40:47] <archivist> table
[03:40:59] <miss0r> So shiny enough? :)
[03:41:23] <archivist> define shiny :)
[03:41:24] <miss0r> archivist: do you have the link, so pink_vampire can see? I seem to have lost it, and would love to not have to upload it again :)
[03:41:51] <archivist> <miss0r> So now, the "remake" of the beat up drillpress table is complete. before: http://picpaste.com/table_old-fLRYHdWb.jpg After: http://picpaste.com/table_new-xqAq94pY.jpg I'm pretty happy with it.
[03:41:54] <miss0r> archivist: well, when I embarked on the project, you said 'It better be shiny AF, when you are done'. so I guess we have to go with your own definition
[03:42:40] <archivist> ermmmmmm my shiny is http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=cast+iron+pendulum
[03:43:07] <pink_vampire> how did you fill the holes miss0r
[03:43:41] <archivist> he has "taken out the wear"
[03:43:48] <miss0r> archivist: now that is just ridiculous :)
[03:44:05] <miss0r> pink_vampire: I removed 11mm off the top of the table. and added 12mm pads
[03:44:26] <archivist> "taken out the wear" is a clockmaker term for removing metal
[03:44:41] <miss0r> also: the pads are somewhat modular, I can move them around and create support what is best suited for the drill job at hand
[03:47:45] <miss0r> I was thinking about adding a DRO for this drillpress. Can you guys reccomend some el-cheapo that is not too shitty?
[03:48:44] <archivist> one of the vertical caliper derived ones
[03:49:33] <archivist> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/0-300mm-0-01mm-Remote-Digital-Readout-linear-Scale-External-Display-/152278320715
[03:49:35] <miss0r> I didn't plan on adding one to the z-axis. Only the X/Y axis to be honnest. If I have to do something that needs more than X-Y I will probally take it to the mill
[03:49:57] <pink_vampire> you can get my g0704 quill dro
[03:50:41] <archivist> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12-300-MM-VERTICAL-DIGITAL-SCALE-UNIT-READOUT-FOR-LATHE-MILLING-MACHINE-ETC-/301873268877
[03:52:11] <miss0r> pink_vampire: thanks. but I don't think i'll add anything to the z-axis. I don't think i'd use it that much, so it would money out the window
[03:52:29] <pink_vampire> it just 4 inches
[03:54:08] <miss0r> This quill has 5.5" travel. so that is a bit small also :)
[03:55:09] <miss0r> My plan was to just add a x-y DRO to make it easier to lay out holes
[03:56:34] <pink_vampire> do you have xy table on it?
[03:57:18] <miss0r> yeah. with 400x250mm travel
[03:57:39] <miss0r> thats why I spend to much time mending the table, instead of replacing it
[04:02:33] <pink_vampire> any idea for good rails for my machine to be able to handle micro endmills
[04:05:17] <miss0r> I don't see how that question is combined?
[04:05:31] <miss0r> as in linear rails for moving the table?
[04:06:49] <pink_vampire> i want to be able to use 1/100" end mills
[04:07:03] <pink_vampire> now i'm using just 1/32"
[04:07:51] <miss0r> so the requirement for the linear ways is that they are acurate enough to not break the endmills? :S I'm sorry. I don't quite understand your question
[04:08:08] <pink_vampire> yes.
[04:08:22] <pink_vampire> now i have the stock dovetail
[04:10:30] <miss0r> I don't see why that should be a problem. Have you experienced problems with the acuracy of it?
[04:13:28] <miss0r> I mean - if you have a smooth action on the x and y axis of your mill. All I can think of you'd need is a spindle with alot higher rpm
[04:14:50] <pink_vampire> the spindle is other story.
[04:15:22] <miss0r> unless you have experienced problems with the way acuracy I think you should be fine with the stock dovetail
[04:22:52] <miss0r> but if you are hellbend on swapping out the ways i'd go for this type of rail: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Linear-Guide-Rail-way-20-L500mm-with-2pcs-Square-Linear-Carriage-for-CNC-Router-/262357359636?hash=item3d15b79c14:g:acEAAMXQ855Rwr2Z But in all honnesty, its hard to beat dovetails for stability, if you are willing to sacrifice the extra energy it takes to move the table.
[04:24:52] <pink_vampire> what about ceramic linear rails?
[04:28:00] <miss0r> thoes are excelent is high acuracy and low friction. but they are somewhat limited in their dynamic load tolerance. i.e. if you drop something heavy on the table by accident, you might break a bearing.
[04:28:08] <miss0r> Plus the good ones are very expensive
[04:33:06] <pink_vampire> or other option is 6o replace the whole machine to the banchtop roland machine
[04:34:05] <pink_vampire> to*
[04:34:22] <miss0r> That is true. I have a PNC-3100 right next to me. That is excellent for the small endmills. But I am under the impression they're somewhat expensive?
[04:35:03] <miss0r> But remember, it is also limited to 8000rpm. With an endmill that small 20k rpm or even higher would not be a bad idea, if you want to get results within reasonable time
[04:37:25] <miss0r> if I were you, I would just look into beefing up the spindle on your mill, so it is faster.
[04:44:11] <miss0r> pink_vampire: You are located in the US, right?
[04:44:21] <pink_vampire> yes
[04:44:22] <pink_vampire> ny
[04:45:06] <pink_vampire> miss0r:
[04:45:10] <miss0r> alright. I thought I remembered that. Too bad thou, if you were in europe, i'd gladly machine you the parts needed for an upgrade. But I guess your mill can handle that.
[04:46:00] <miss0r> It seems alot of people with the G0704 does something like this: http://www.cnccookbook.com/img/MillStuff/BeltDrive/gdmP1030123.JPG
[04:47:35] <miss0r> I have to run, kid woke up. I will be back later
[04:47:54] <pink_vampire> i want very high speed spindle
[04:48:05] <pink_vampire> 40k or faster
[04:49:41] <XXCoder> engraving?
[05:28:49] <jthornton> morning
[05:28:59] <XXCoder> hey jthornton
[05:29:05] <XXCoder> pink_vampire: ?
[05:34:34] <jthornton> what's up this morning?
[05:35:07] <XXCoder> same. just chilling heh 3 am now
[05:36:58] <jthornton> 5am here
[05:37:05] <jthornton> just waking up
[05:38:04] <jthornton> the latest version of marlin homes Z like LinuxCNC trips the switch at a fast speed then backs off and does it again at a slower speed
[05:38:53] <XXCoder> more accurate though it also means harder impact of switch fails lol
[05:42:16] <jthornton> I don't think it goes any faster than before just added a slow second touch off
[05:43:07] <XXCoder> interesting
[05:44:18] <jthornton> the X axis back rod broke through the Z holder from the belt tension on mine so I ordered some 8mm split collars to hold it
[05:56:02] <pink_vampire> hi
[05:56:19] <pink_vampire> i just broke one more 1/32" end mill
[05:57:55] <SpeedEvil> up to an inch yet?
[06:03:38] <__rob2> hello
[06:03:54] <__rob2> anyone have any advice on machine taps for aluminium
[06:04:00] <__rob2> I see there are twist and straight
[06:04:27] <__rob2> https://www.cromwell.co.uk/shop/cutting-tools/tapping-production/
[06:06:19] <_methods> blind or thru hole?
[06:06:29] <_methods> hand or cnc tapping?
[06:07:10] <__rob2> through hole
[06:07:20] <__rob2> just using tension compression head on cnc
[06:07:26] <__rob2> I dont have an auto reversing head
[06:07:35] <_methods> flood coolant?
[06:07:36] <__rob2> so likely I wont do any blind holes
[06:07:37] <__rob2> yea
[06:07:38] <__rob2> flood
[06:07:54] <_methods> well i'd get a spiral flute plug tap then
[06:08:01] <_methods> what size tap?
[06:08:16] <__rob2> m2 - m5 really
[06:08:34] <_methods> ah m2 can be difficult machine tapping
[06:08:42] <_methods> especially if it's a deep tap
[06:08:44] <_methods> in alum
[06:09:04] <__rob2> https://www.cromwell.co.uk/shop/cutting-tools/hss-ev-production-taps/m2x0-4-yellow-sp-fl-371-hss-ev-ox-tap/p/SWT1850503Y
[06:09:05] <jthornton> oversize the hole a bit for the small ones
[06:09:05] <_methods> another option is thread form tap
[06:09:07] <__rob2> looking at that one
[06:09:09] <_methods> if you have lots of holes
[06:09:20] <__rob2> yea, I have 0.1 over sizes for every drill
[06:09:35] <__rob2> I do have lots
[06:09:53] <__rob2> wondering, should I want to do a blind hole with tension compression head, I should be able to get away with just over drilling a bit right ?
[06:09:59] <_methods> yeah that tap looks good
[06:10:07] <_methods> but if i had the option i'd use thread form
[06:10:12] <_methods> they last a lot longer
[06:10:32] <_methods> and as long as it's not a food grade/medical grade product your life will be much happier
[06:10:48] <__rob2> sorry, whats (a) thread form ?
[06:11:06] <_methods> it's a tap the forms the threads vs cutting the threads
[06:11:12] <_methods> s/the/that
[06:13:18] <__rob2> ahh, thats pretty clever
[06:13:25] <__rob2> just looked at a video
[06:13:32] <_methods> yeah they get crazy tool life vs a regular tap
[06:13:41] <_methods> and you really have to abuse one to break it
[06:14:10] <__rob2> you think that would play well with at t/c head ?
[06:14:22] <_methods> i don't see why not
[06:14:34] <_methods> but honestly i've never tried one with tc head
[06:14:43] <_methods> i've always rigid tapped with them
[06:14:49] <_methods> but i don't see how it would matter
[06:15:13] <_methods> it works similar to a regular tap
[06:15:38] <_methods> just the thread creation is different
[06:15:51] * jthornton broke a m3 form tap by picking the wrong drill bit
[06:18:22] <_methods> yeah that will do it
[06:18:36] <_methods> you do have to remember that you need a diff size tap drill for thread formers
[06:20:46] <jthornton> yea and I even got osg to recommend the drill size based on the job and material
[06:21:54] <_methods> oops
[06:26:12] <jthornton> yea, I forgot what size drill I used but need to figure it out cause I need to run those parts again
[06:29:00] <_methods> what size tap?
[06:29:18] <jthornton> M3
[06:29:45] <jthornton> 6061 1/8" through hole
[06:29:47] <_methods> hypro thread fomer?
[06:31:14] <_methods> m3x.5?
[06:31:25] <pink_vampire> why brass kill all my end mills??????????
[06:31:25] <_methods> looks like you need 2.75-2.8mm tap drill
[06:31:55] <pink_vampire> 3 end mills die
[06:32:08] <_methods> http://www.osgtool.com/_branding/books/8002016CA/html5/index.html?&pn=333&locale=ENG
[06:33:28] <_methods> same for the exopro thread former
[06:33:42] <_methods> http://www.osgtool.com/_branding/books/8002016CA/html5/index.html?&pn=327&locale=ENG
[06:35:04] <jthornton> yes M3x0.5 former
[06:36:37] <_methods> well if it's a hypro or exopro looks like you need 2.75 low or 2.8 high tap drill
[06:38:27] <jthornton> I wonder why I could not find that page last time
[06:39:22] <_methods> well they used to have like 20 diff catalogs
[06:39:30] <_methods> looks like they moved to 1 big catalog
[06:39:51] <_methods> so it was sometimes hard to find tool data in their old catalog layot
[06:42:19] <Deejay> moin
[06:43:38] <jthornton> hey
[06:46:27] <jthornton> downloaded that whole pdf for reference thanks for the link
[07:23:52] <jthornton> .
[08:34:25] <Tom_L> mmm
[08:34:29] <Tom_L> 4.5 last night
[08:34:49] <Tom_L> jthornton, get it working it appears?
[08:41:28] <JT-Shop> Tom_L: close, one more thing to change
[09:03:25] <JT-Shop> or fix as the case may be
[09:54:05] <nos> Today I'm drinking, because on of the new guys left a milling machine a hazard to life and sanity.
[09:54:53] <nos> There were for bolts, of say M14, and he had tightened one of them. the other 3 were finger-tight.
[09:56:07] <nos> This was on a vertical milling head. The one you take off for when you covert it to horizontal.
[09:56:43] <nos> All cast iron, which we of course is only strong under compression.
[09:59:20] <nos> So this guy, this douchebag, made an extra effort to make things *seem* like they were safe...
[09:59:52] <nos> And just left things like that... I dunno, as a SURPISE for the next guy?
[10:01:02] <nos> Luckily, some sixth sense made me realzie I can't trust my fellow man, and I double checked these bolts, which would otherwise go unnoticed.
[10:01:26] <nos> Fuck that guy.
[10:12:51] <Jymmm> jthornton: What pdf? Of what?
[10:14:54] <Jymmm> nos: was the machine locked out of service? Was whatever he was doing "complete", or was he planning on coming back and finishing the job? Was it laziness or ignorance or malicious? Is he fired or at least reported so it doesn't happen again?
[10:16:27] <nubcake> hi
[10:17:22] <nubcake> any idea where i can find a pinout scheme for my stepper driver (it's labeled "TX14207") end up finding area codes and address stuff on google instead of the part/manual/pinout stuff :(
[10:18:38] <Jymmm> nubcake: chinese thing?
[10:18:46] <nubcake> Jymmm, unfortunately, yes
[10:18:56] <Jymmm> nubcake: where did you get it from?
[10:19:02] <nubcake> ordered replacement drivers, but those aren't delivered yet :(
[10:19:18] <nubcake> they came with my control box
[10:19:27] <Jymmm> from where?
[10:19:38] <nubcake> ebay, china
[10:19:48] <Jymmm> link?
[10:19:55] <nubcake> sec.
[10:22:19] <nubcake> not being sold anymore -_- crappy seller
[10:27:56] <jdh> how many wires?
[10:29:21] <Jymmm> Anyone used oe of these? http://www.homedepot.com/p/Dyna-Glo-Pro-60K-BTU-Forced-Air-Propane-Portable-Heater-RMC-FA60DGP/202223041
[10:39:12] <MacGalempsy> nubcake: pics?
[10:50:24] <ToddZ> Jymmm: Looks like a fairly ordinary torpedo heater, without the kerosene stink.
[10:56:02] <Jymmm> ToddZ: have you used a propane one before?
[11:00:08] <ToddZ> Nope, only the regular K2 torpedoes, and propane IR space heaters (not forced air).
[11:05:08] <CaptHindsight> be careful propane is flammable
[11:07:10] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: So, connec DIRECTLY to the 250gal tank, bypassing the regulator, right?
[11:08:02] <JT-Shop> no a 500 gallon tank
[11:09:11] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Shoot, All I have is 250+5+5+5+5+5
[11:11:49] <ToddZ> It is a lot harder to get warm using things that don't burn.
[11:15:20] <Jymmm> You mena I should stop trying to lite this ice cube for warmth?
[11:22:07] <Jymmm> gregcnc: Was it you that mentioned using SS tubing? https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-220256
[11:26:08] <gregcnc> not I, but you can definitely find it cheaper than auto supply
[11:37:15] <gregcnc> Dang! 9 billion metric tons of nuclear fuel waste in IL http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/01/12/step-aside-3-d-printing-this-is-general-electrics.aspx
[11:44:05] <Jymmm> gregcnc: Yeah? Do tell where this cheap SS tubing be?
[11:48:36] <CaptHindsight> avoid Fedex/Kinkos for packing anything, they just charge me $90 to "custom box" some sheet metal
[11:49:08] <CaptHindsight> I guess that is their scam for milking customers
[11:49:10] <gregcnc> any of those places rob you for that
[11:49:34] <gregcnc> jymmm ebay, but now i remember it may be welded, not seamless
[11:49:37] <CaptHindsight> unfortunately I'm 1500 miles from that location
[11:49:53] <Jymmm> gregcnc: ah, gotcha
[11:50:19] <gregcnc> probably doesn't matter for you, not 6000PSI, I hope
[11:51:06] <Jymmm> gregcnc: Wellllll, haha no, not in this case. I've decided to steer away from the whole boiler thing (for now)
[11:51:08] <jdh> mcmaster has welded and seamless
[11:51:59] <Jymmm> jdh: cheaper than the link above?
[11:52:57] <jdh> nope. but I wanted 6000psi 1/4"
[11:53:05] <Jymmm> ah
[11:54:04] <Jymmm> jdh: $40 https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-220214/overview/
[11:54:48] <gregcnc> welded is only rate for 2000psi, silly that summit doesn't even say it's seamless
[11:55:11] <jdh> nice. easier to ship also. mine was hard temper
[11:55:19] <Jymmm> it does say 6000psi and tested
[11:55:36] <jdh> I'm pretty sure they had high pressure welded
[11:57:42] <gregcnc> i guess it depends on how thick it is .020" vs .028"
[11:58:17] <jdh> I was thinking .047
[11:58:25] <jdh> but just a memory
[12:02:05] <gregcnc> www.ebay.com/itm/201487649250 20' doesn't say either
[12:06:15] <gregcnc> capthindsight, that clausing in Oak Lawn was renewed yesterday, any luck getting a hold of them?
[12:07:28] <CaptHindsight> no, been too busy
[12:09:45] <CaptHindsight> heh, CL makes you take the I'm not a robot test
[12:14:42] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: looks like they only reply to text messages
[12:25:01] <lowridah> there's never an 'i'm a cyborg' option on that captcha
[12:28:53] <CaptHindsight> I guess as long as you're not a robot they really don't care
[12:30:28] <lowridah> 'did you just assume my species?'
[12:30:52] <CaptHindsight> I don't they care
[12:31:08] <CaptHindsight> just anti-robot I guess
[12:31:39] <CaptHindsight> don't /doubt
[12:31:58] <gregcnc> no CL soup for you!
[12:32:18] <CaptHindsight> "I'm not a banana"
[12:39:43] <t12> i am a meat popsicle
[12:43:08] * Jymmm places t12 into a meat grinder, tosses in some spices, and stuffs into some garden hose.
[12:43:49] <Jymmm> Fish chum a la t12
[12:44:45] <__rob2> anyone know where I can get a locking ball and socket joint from
[12:45:00] <__rob2> soemthing about the size of the ones on those soldering crocidile clip holders
[12:45:04] <Jymmm> __rob2: tool? car?
[12:45:05] <__rob2> the 'thrid hands'
[12:45:13] <__rob2> no, minature
[12:45:37] <__rob2> ideally a bit nicer
[12:45:39] <Jymmm> is that the intended purpose... 3rd hand?
[12:45:40] <archivist> the locking ones I have seen are not that good
[12:46:05] <archivist> add one to a good camera locking ball
[12:47:01] <Jymmm> __rob2: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10pcs-lot-G1-4-300mm-Round-Head-Cooling-Tube-Water-Cooling-Pipe-Coolant-Oil-Plastic-Pipe/32584107922.html
[12:47:31] <Jymmm> since you didnt state it's purpose =)
[12:47:58] <__rob2> ahh yea needs to be more solid
[12:47:59] <__rob2> and lockable
[12:48:02] <__rob2> so metal
[12:48:10] <__rob2> with a grub screw or something
[12:48:18] <__rob2> http://www.automotioncomponents.co.uk/en/catalog/rotary/ball-socket-joints/lockable-ball-and-socket-joints/r3540#
[12:48:19] <archivist> theye are some vices with ball joints
[12:48:22] <__rob2> but I did just find that
[12:49:33] <archivist> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CLARKE-ENGINEERS-RUBBER-JAWED-SUCTION-BASE-VICE-70mm-VBV-70-/281859564327
[12:49:43] <ayjay_t> guys guys has anyone seen this: https://voltera.io/store
[12:51:17] <ayjay_t> they said it accepts gcode commands
[12:53:52] <Jymmm> $99/2ml, good for 6 months refrigerated, eh
[12:54:21] <Jymmm> It's never the big purchase, but the nickle and dime that gets ya
[12:55:17] <archivist> expensive way to make prototypes
[12:57:14] <pcw_home> Unless you re in a real big hurry, real quick turn 4 layer PCBs are much much better
[13:06:23] <ayjay_t> pcw_home do you have preferred vendor?
[13:06:30] <ayjay_t> preferably not chinese based
[13:08:00] <ayjay_t> the 2ml, its hard to quantify how far that actually take anyone
[13:09:53] <CaptHindsight> 2cc but they don't say the % of solids, probably 1-2%
[13:10:38] <CaptHindsight> oh does it use a nozzle vs printhead?
[13:11:20] <ayjay_t> yeah
[13:11:28] <CaptHindsight> if it's a nozzle then it's much higher solids
[13:11:28] <ayjay_t> its like 92% silver
[13:11:33] <ayjay_t> nozzle
[13:11:38] <ayjay_t> is that needed tho?
[13:11:41] <CaptHindsight> but you can make your own for less
[13:11:43] <ayjay_t> yeah
[13:11:49] <CaptHindsight> copper is even cheaper
[13:11:51] <ayjay_t> i'm actually talking to one of their developers now
[13:12:07] <ayjay_t> their machine uses gcode and they said the nozzle can support of a lot of fluids
[13:12:16] <ayjay_t> capthindsight, you're the real expert, is it manageable
[13:12:27] <CaptHindsight> yeah I make similar printers
[13:12:54] <ayjay_t> does your company sell them? like, can i buy them
[13:13:06] <CaptHindsight> custom builds
[13:13:11] <ayjay_t> rough
[13:13:44] <CaptHindsight> I'd have to dog for pics of their nozzle
[13:14:06] <CaptHindsight> ask them what the orifice diameter is
[13:15:46] <CaptHindsight> is the valve pneumatic or screw driven?
[13:15:48] <__rob2> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/gas-spring-accessories/0689394/
[13:15:58] <__rob2> presumably something tightens on that
[13:15:59] <__rob2> to lock it
[13:16:08] <CaptHindsight> you can make your own using a LCNC and a router
[13:17:08] <ayjay_t> capthindsight: im trying to ask him all these questions
[13:17:13] <CaptHindsight> silver is expensive but easy to formulate
[13:17:59] <ayjay_t> i might insulted
[13:18:21] <CaptHindsight> copper is cheap but requires a barrier from oxygen until it's sintered
[13:19:56] <CaptHindsight> they are making money off of the silver ink, they probably won't answer questions that get too into the design
[13:21:26] <ayjay_t> its 9 mil
[13:21:42] <ayjay_t> ~200 um
[13:26:01] <CaptHindsight> "Each refill of conductive ink has enough to print up to 100m of conductive trace at a width of 0.2mm (~8 mil). In other words, 200cm^2 of solid fill."
[13:26:27] <CaptHindsight> how thick is the trace from top to bottom? The width is only given.
[13:27:11] <CaptHindsight> but it's probably an approximation anyway
[13:28:14] <CaptHindsight> https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/003/243/859/6acb4b33ae92bd29c226347e2648172e_original.gif?w=680&fit=max&v=1423241947&q=92&s=e8ea6f6ccdfac946d032a40176981ca2
[13:28:25] <CaptHindsight> looks screw driven
[13:28:48] <ayjay_t> lead screw
[13:29:55] <CaptHindsight> you could make your own with 2 nozzles, one for conductive and one for the insulator
[13:31:35] <CaptHindsight> but for anything low cost and production quantities you'll want copper vs silver for the traces
[13:32:25] <rene-dev> LinuxCNC meetup Stuttgart 2016 http://doodle.com/poll/w52962an5pxgatsi
[13:34:56] <ayjay_t> CaptHindsight: do you need to print the insulator?
[13:35:07] <cpresser> rene-dev: nice! I hope to make it to the meeting this time
[13:35:07] <ayjay_t> and i'd like to have something like that for reducing the cost and time of prototypes
[13:35:17] <CaptHindsight> ayjay_t: if you want multiple layers
[13:35:43] <rene-dev> cpresser have you been there before?
[13:35:52] <ayjay_t> hmm there must be another way
[13:36:01] <cpresser> rene-dev: wanted to attend last time and show my scara retrofit
[13:36:24] <rene-dev> cpresser ah, which one? I also retrofitted a scara
[13:36:29] <cpresser> rene-dev: btw: was/is there progress with stmbl and DC-brushed motors?
[13:36:43] <rene-dev> cpresser yes, fully supported now
[13:37:21] <cpresser> rene-dev: okay, ill read the changelogs then :) i am still considering to replace the old drivers
[13:37:41] <cpresser> https://ca.rstenpresser.de/blag/2015/04/hirata-ar-c270-scara-robot-retrofit-part1/
[13:37:46] <rene-dev> cpresser https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6NH1W7DUnQ
[13:38:24] <cpresser> with JA finally merged its about time to continue with my scara :)
[13:39:19] <rene-dev> yes, most motors work a lot better with stmbl than the original controller, and its a lot smaller :)
[13:39:39] <rene-dev> ah, nice. where are you from?
[13:40:20] <cpresser> rene-dev: now living close to aachen
[13:40:40] <MarkusBec> hm stutgart are not that far from frankfurt
[13:40:59] <cpresser> MarkusBec: if i take the car i can pick you up
[13:41:10] <MarkusBec> :)
[13:41:20] <cpresser> but we will all be at CCC as well :)
[13:41:46] <rene-dev> cpresser I will be there as well. I brought the SR60 last year :D
[13:42:10] <rene-dev> stmbl devs are form Münster
[13:42:13] <cpresser> yep, someone told me about it
[13:43:00] <rene-dev> MarkusBec are you the pnp guy?
[13:44:24] <rene-dev> first stmbl test with my yamaha pnp... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMZQ4q7iM20
[13:44:30] <cpresser> rene-dev: are DC-Servos also using the iram-driver?
[13:45:20] <rene-dev> yes, that is really not ideal for most dc servos. but there is a dc version in development. also a uhu adapter, to retrofit uhu drivers with a stm32
[13:49:10] <cpresser> i am looking at the v4 kicad schematic now. so basically for DC-servos one would need a suitable H-Bridge in place of the iram. Anything else i am missing?
[13:49:22] <nubcake> stupid stepper just grilled itself... -_-
[13:50:39] <rene-dev> no
[13:52:28] <rene-dev> cpresser I just pushed the stmdc version... needs a litte work
[13:53:23] <rene-dev> cpresser It is designed to be the same formfactor as the smd uhu
[13:53:23] <rene-dev> http://www.benezan.de/Manuals/UHU-Installation.pdf
[13:53:36] <rene-dev> uses the same heatsink, and din rail clip
[13:53:59] <IchGucksLive> hi
[13:56:33] <nubcake> hi
[13:56:38] <IchGucksLive> ;-)
[13:57:16] <cpresser> I wanted to build an UHU in the first place, but could not find proper schematics/source code. it seems to be somewhat closed
[13:57:55] <IchGucksLive> UHU the DC servo board
[14:02:05] <rene-dev> cpresser uhu is closed source
[14:03:58] <nubcake> https://s18.postimg.org/ya1kf5wo9/20160827_213305.jpg any idea why the "ENA" on these drivers won't work?
[14:04:42] <nubcake> soldered 3 wires to it (one to ENA, one to DIR and one to P) doesn't do anything at all..
[14:05:18] <IchGucksLive> ena neads 5V to be on
[14:05:38] <nubcake> i did connect it to the P14 on my BOB which says EN
[14:06:06] <MarkusBec> rene-dev: i want to build a pnp
[14:09:06] <MarkusBec> cpresser: uhu source is closed but there are schematics available and some board files
[14:09:13] <MarkusBec> but now its just crap
[14:09:32] <MarkusBec> nobody wants to build a dil version this days
[14:10:04] <MarkusBec> the controller needs a total rework
[14:10:21] <MarkusBec> but now days you can buy dc servo driver for cheap
[14:10:39] <MarkusBec> with more power then the uhus
[14:10:54] <MarkusBec> https://granitedevices.com
[14:11:01] <MarkusBec> the new granit devices are nice
[14:11:43] <MarkusBec> https://granitedevices.com/miniature-servo-drive-ioni/
[14:12:01] <CaptHindsight> MarkusBec: any idea what their prices are?
[14:12:53] <MarkusBec> 149€
[14:13:00] <MarkusBec> https://granitedevices.com/store/
[14:13:08] <MarkusBec> 200 with adapter
[14:13:10] <CaptHindsight> heh, thanks
[14:32:34] <CaptHindsight> I like the mainboard and module concept for the Ioncube but I wish they went to 400V vs just ~50V
[14:35:03] <cpresser> oh, thats sad. i was about to look at them in detail. but the scara runs with 95V.
[14:39:03] <CaptHindsight> this one goes to 380V https://granitedevices.com/store/argon-ac-servo-drive.html
[14:39:25] <CaptHindsight> but it's similar to other single axis servo drives
[14:39:33] <CaptHindsight> not modular
[14:40:06] <CaptHindsight> https://granitedevices.com/digital-servo-drive-argon/
[14:40:22] <cpresser> yep. i dont want to invest that much money. the scara is only a hobby. ill look into stmbl, or reverse-engineer the old drives
[14:41:15] <CaptHindsight> for hobby I'd check ebay, I found 100-200w ac servo drives for <$100
[14:41:54] <CaptHindsight> saw some delta 100w ac drives for ~$79 brand new in box
[14:42:23] <cpresser> something like this: http://www.ebay.de/itm/181316559854
[14:42:50] <cpresser> but all devices I found are not suited for A/B encoder feedback
[14:45:13] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/172016212733 pretty sure these have quadrature inputs
[14:45:42] <CaptHindsight> but they are China specials
[14:47:07] <MarkusBec> granit deivces have a 400V version
[14:47:32] <CaptHindsight> MarkusBec: for the modules?
[14:47:41] <MarkusBec> argon
[14:48:13] <MarkusBec> remember read the backlog first :P
[14:48:20] <CaptHindsight> yeah saw those, but they aren't modular
[14:48:28] <CaptHindsight> unless I missed something
[14:48:29] * cpresser is looking at the argon source code.. i dont like it
[14:48:30] <cpresser> https://github.com/GraniteDevices/ArgonServoDriveFirmware/blob/master/src/main.cpp
[14:48:35] <MarkusBec> vor 400V modular is not possible
[14:48:44] <CaptHindsight> ok
[14:48:58] <cpresser> if statements withot curly braces :/
[14:49:05] <cpresser> unsused variables
[14:49:06] <CaptHindsight> thats what I'd need, modular and 400V
[14:49:10] <MarkusBec> it must have a isolated enclosure
[14:49:43] <cpresser> weird indenting and whitespace usage
[14:51:02] <gregcnc> cpresser www.ebay.com/itm/222299491831
[14:51:25] <gregcnc> http://www.a-m-c.com/download/datasheet/be25a20.pdf
[14:51:51] <Jymmm> cpresser: then fit it?
[14:52:05] <Jymmm> fix*
[14:52:37] <cpresser> gregcnc: unfortunately thats BLDC, i have brushed-dc servoss
[14:52:38] <gregcnc> so alabama gas explosion coincidence or like the blacklist a few weeks ago....
[14:52:51] <gregcnc> they run brushed servos to I'm using a couple
[14:53:09] <cpresser> ah, need to take a closer look then
[14:53:59] <IchGucksLive> GN8
[14:54:29] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: I don't know about those AMC drives, they tend to release lots of smoke unexpectedly
[14:54:48] <gregcnc> I'll find out mine haven't seen much yet beyond setup
[14:55:14] <gregcnc> I didn't shop for new solutions, just sheap
[14:55:22] <gregcnc> cheap maybe
[14:56:11] <gregcnc> i think i paid $25 shipped for BE12A6
[14:56:34] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan had some blow up real good and he always uses wires 1-3 sizes too large
[14:56:53] <CaptHindsight> but yeah, they tend to go for cheap used
[15:00:19] <gregcnc> his had the power supply built in? he may have been overloading the braking resistor
[15:00:31] <gregcnc> lots of new surplus too
[15:06:39] <CaptHindsight> looked like bad design
[15:07:22] <CaptHindsight> he had 2 drives on one pole and a third drive on the the other
[15:07:58] <gregcnc> hes just replaced them? still running?
[15:08:01] <CaptHindsight> it wasn't a braking resistor issue
[15:08:29] <pcw_mesa> Yeah, I think they stopped blowing up when zeeshan stopped trying to run the drives on both sides of the 220 line
[15:08:29] <CaptHindsight> he changed them all to power from the same pole as I recall
[15:08:35] <gregcnc> oK I remember some talk about doubling the shut reg capacity
[15:10:07] <CaptHindsight> I've only blown up cheap ChinaCo drives
[15:10:46] <CaptHindsight> they tend to skip those parts that deal with protection
[15:18:22] <distrozapper> seb_kuzminsky, all: Hi and welcome, I am newbie on this channel. I there a way to leave a message here for an offline user?
[15:21:46] <distrozapper> *Is
[15:23:25] <cradek> I don't think so
[15:30:58] <renesis> acquire shells, deploy bots
[15:32:59] <gregcnc> capthindsight https://rockford.craigslist.org/tls/5858045598.html
[15:33:58] <distrozapper> renesis, I agree, bots needed. So if there aren't any: Thanks for reply!
[15:35:19] <rene-dev> cpresser: MarkusBec I dont like the granitedevice stuff
[15:36:05] <rene-dev> Its not opensource, although they claim to be "openservo"
[15:36:50] <rene-dev> And they do really bad things in the code that is publicly available... like using nops for timing...
[15:50:30] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: the guy already left for today
[15:50:56] <gregcnc> does that machine take tape?
[15:50:59] <CaptHindsight> back at 8am, will probably be sold by 8:01
[15:51:56] <MarkusBec> rene-dev: nops for timing are not that bad if you know what you are doing
[15:52:21] <gregcnc> maybe you'll get lucky
[15:52:23] <cpresser> MarkusBec: https://github.com/GraniteDevices/ArgonServoDriveFirmware/blob/master/src/main.cpp#L414
[15:52:41] <cpresser> in a RTOS environment
[15:52:51] <MarkusBec> jumping back and forth somtimes need more time than a nop
[15:53:03] <cpresser> one-shot timers
[15:53:55] <gregcnc> I should try to make some parts, now that the compressor is mostly back together with an aftercooler. i still need to mount it and the filter/separator.
[15:54:03] <MarkusBec> hm ok :)
[15:54:29] <cpresser> MarkusBec: even to my standards that code is horrible. and as you know, i am not a coder
[15:57:38] <zhivko> @andypugh: are you here?
[15:57:49] <zhivko> Hey guys, and gals :)
[15:58:04] <zhivko> I am stil consuming this G93 mode...
[15:58:31] <zhivko> I still not get it how to calculate this...
[15:58:52] <gregcnc> for 4th axis?
[16:00:23] <zhivko> in my last chat here with andy - length = (pi/180)*dA*sqrt(x1^2+z1^2) + sqrt(dx^2 + dy^2 + dz^2)
[16:00:42] <zhivko> yes I have 4 axis cnc machine (kinf of pipe cutter)
[16:01:58] <zhivko> video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdvwQDqcVmw
[16:02:47] <gregcnc> yes, i've seen the video, i was wondering how you program it
[16:03:04] <zhivko> but I am skeptic for upper formula - first term is arc length of rotation difference and second term is length
[16:04:01] <zhivko> so this lenghth is summing milimeters in different directions - I mean arc and mm... hmm...
[16:04:24] <zhivko> @gregcnc: actually I got points and then just try follow the path...
[16:05:42] <zhivko> what I want to ahieve is constant speed of tool over rotating surface
[16:09:20] <zhivko> SO what I wanted to say this formula seems not right
[16:09:21] <cradek> you should use the arc length of the move as drawn in your preview
[16:10:00] <zhivko> arc move is firs part is this formula - no ?
[16:10:24] <cradek> all those 90 degree arcs have the same radius as shown in the preview, so they'll all be the same arc length, and that means they'll each take the same time, so they'll have the same G93 F
[16:11:31] <cradek> say those arcs have 5mm radius and they are all 90 degrees, the arc length is 2*pi*5mm*(90/360)
[16:12:13] <zhivko> yes - thats correct...
[16:12:16] <cradek> so like 8mm
[16:12:21] <cradek> how long do you want them to take to cut?
[16:12:36] <zhivko> I try to use 500mm/min
[16:12:59] <cradek> so 8/500ths of a minute?
[16:13:43] <cradek> = G93 F62.5 (500/8)
[16:13:50] <zhivko> but then I have this moves when I just turn the pipe - not cutting anything...
[16:14:02] <cradek> then use G0
[16:14:36] <zhivko> if I am in g93 and use g0 move... I dont need to specify feed -yes?
[16:14:46] <zhivko> It will take maximum A velocity from ini
[16:14:48] <zhivko> ?
[16:15:13] <XXCoder> thats proper gcode spec to not use f with g0
[16:15:25] <XXCoder> though with g93 dunno
[16:15:30] <XXCoder> g93?
[16:15:36] <XXCoder> no entry bah
[16:15:38] <gregcnc> G93 says G0 works as normal
[16:16:59] <cradek> right
[16:17:09] <XXCoder> wrong channel, other one has this handy bot lol
[16:17:23] <cradek> fwiw http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/g-code.html#gcode:g93-g94-g95
[16:17:40] <zhivko> yes ...
[16:17:54] <cradek> (that was for XXCoder)
[16:18:03] <XXCoder> thanks
[16:18:37] <XXCoder> g93 can be handy for pause timer
[16:18:45] <cradek> g4
[16:18:53] <XXCoder> for say cutting nylon and want tool and plastic to cool off
[16:19:44] <cradek> zhivko: do you think you understand it now? did I help? I just looked at your video and I am not sure if I have the whole story
[16:20:54] <zhivko> cradek: Thinking it... I have this tiny segments of radius
[16:21:53] <cradek> oh the little arc radius I see in the preview is several G1 moves?
[16:22:14] <gregcnc> Can your CAM output G2/3?
[16:22:42] <cradek> they're not arcs in the 4 axis gcode world, only in the cam
[16:23:09] <cradek> or at least I don't think they can be, since the A axis has to move in a coordinated way to cut them
[16:23:34] <cradek> but you still need to calculate G93F feed from the model's knowledge, not the gcode numbers
[16:24:12] <cradek> if that arc is made of ten G1 moves, each should be G93 F625 instead of one at G93 F62.5, see?
[16:24:42] <cradek> since you want it to cut in 8/500ths of a minute
[16:24:54] <gregcnc> Oh some controls do
[16:24:55] <cradek> still want
[16:25:11] <zhivko> cradek: in my current model I needed to multiply 500mm/min speed by arc_length/half arc length
[16:25:14] <cradek> did you look at the motion in the video?
[16:25:37] <cradek> zhivko: I don't understand
[16:28:01] <zhivko> cradek: firt I have calculation as you proposed but then my simulation showed that move at corers were too slow.
[16:28:23] <gregcnc> sorry I was thinking C axis, lathe, but it's not really the same
[16:28:39] <zhivko> cradek: at corner
[16:28:47] <cradek> zhivko: are you sure the axis can move as fast as you request?
[16:28:52] <gregcnc> could this be the acceleration issues we see sometimes?
[16:29:27] <zhivko> gregcnc: you mean this zigzags in velocity profile?
[16:29:32] <cradek> zhivko: if you use G0 instead does it go too fast or too slow?
[16:30:05] <zhivko> cradek: if I use G0 it would go way too fast
[16:30:10] <cradek> if you use G0 and it still goes too slow that is machine configuration, not F word
[16:30:26] <cradek> are you sure?
[16:30:47] <cradek> I mean for each of your small moves program it with G0 instead of G1
[16:31:07] <cradek> if you try that and it goes too fast, I agree it is your F word still not right
[16:31:10] <zhivko> you propose I should try changing g01 to g00 in my gcode and do test ?
[16:31:11] <rene-dev> cpresser: MarkusBec maybe, but microcontrollers have timers for that
[16:31:25] <cradek> yes to see if it's a gcode problem or axis configuration problem
[16:32:49] <zhivko> cradek: so for getting length I need universal formula
[16:33:16] <zhivko> cradek: I mean that it accounds for rotation and also translation mvement
[16:33:45] <zhivko> because you can have cut in Y direction when angle a is same in same move
[16:34:35] <rene-dev> And they use it for quadrature output, seriously, wtf. They dont make good use of the stm hardware peripherals
[16:34:51] <zhivko> then if I only calculate radius length it will be 0 since dA =0, but dy=5mm - so whole length is 5mm...
[16:34:52] <cradek> if the cut as you look at it in the model or on the part is the same length, the G93F word is the same
[16:35:28] <cradek> if length is 5mm and you want 500mm/min that's G93 F100 (500/5)
[16:35:42] <cradek> it doesn't matter what axes are moving
[16:35:48] <cradek> that's why G93 is good for this
[16:36:00] <zhivko> cradek - this is only case for cut of arc length, where dY of move = 0
[16:36:28] <zhivko> but I need to program general... I have current point and next point, current angle and next angle
[16:36:30] <cradek> no it doesn't matter what the shape is or what axes are moving! you are specifying the time the cut should take
[16:37:22] <zhivko> yes but to do that I need to calculate length of move isn't it ?
[16:37:55] <cradek> the length the tool tip moves on the part
[16:37:56] <zhivko> than for g93 feed = speed / length...
[16:38:11] <cradek> the length of the feature you are cutting
[16:38:39] <cradek> not necessarily derivable from the motion of any axes
[16:39:06] <cradek> cam needs to understand the part's feature to calculate G93 F
[16:39:35] <zhivko> but all I have is current and next point, current and next angle
[16:40:46] <cradek> I am not sure whether that's enough information
[16:40:53] <zhivko> I think it is combined move from workpiece rotation and translation movement of tip point
[16:41:21] <zhivko> hmm.. how then can I calculate that :O
[16:41:49] <cradek> no, because I can imagine a very large angular move (180 degrees) and a corresponding big arc move that will make just a hole on the part, no cut length
[16:42:22] <cradek> only by knowing information about the part can you know what the cut length is for a move like that
[16:42:28] <zhivko> yes . and lets take tip point is still and rotation is 360 degree
[16:42:52] <cradek> yes that might make a very long cut on a large radius part, or a very short cut on a small radius part
[16:44:51] <zhivko> what can be then formula if you take angle data and point data (of start and end move) ? is it possible to calculate at all?
[16:47:02] <cradek> I don't know
[16:48:43] <zhivko> hmm.. any g93 experts arround ? :)
[16:49:25] <cradek> uh
[16:49:51] <cradek> you don't have g93 questions anymore, I've explained how it works 10 times, you have geometry questions that are specific to your application and parts
[16:58:31] <asdfasd> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGbP0xC8OFE
[17:00:06] <DaViruz> i don't get it
[17:00:49] <DaViruz> oh. chocolate wrench
[17:08:33] <gregcnc> those chips should go great with the wrench
[17:10:05] <gregcnc> daviruz these are ~160USD from Emco www.ebay.com/itm/391613116493
[17:10:33] <DaViruz> gregcnc: oh you can actually get then new?
[17:10:38] <DaViruz> i saw those.
[17:10:39] <gregcnc> yes
[17:10:46] <DaViruz> cool
[17:10:51] <gregcnc> i checked last year
[17:10:52] <DaViruz> that's a pretty viable option
[17:11:14] <DaViruz> i finally gave up and ordered a (used) z stepper drive for mine
[17:11:55] <DaViruz> as soon as i installed it the tool changer ripped a cable to a prox sensor when rotating, so it went out of business instantly :)
[17:12:10] <gregcnc> If they didn't have the tiny set screws on the 1/2" holder I'd buy one, They don't hold very well on my 12mm
[17:12:24] <gregcnc> oops
[17:12:25] <DaViruz> oh? i find my 12mm's hold pretty well
[17:12:32] <DaViruz> M6 setscrew
[17:12:56] <gregcnc> mine has two smaller?
[17:13:15] <DaViruz> well it has two M6 setscews
[17:13:25] <gregcnc> hmm probably same
[17:13:44] <DaViruz> i've never tried it on a tool without a flat though
[17:14:21] <gregcnc> But I have 600W and am pushing the limit, I free handed a flat on carbide
[17:14:58] <DaViruz> oh.
[17:15:08] <DaViruz> i just ordered som stuff for a rotary axis.
[17:15:15] <DaViruz> that will force a retrofit though
[17:15:45] <gregcnc> I was looking for servos if I decide to retrofit
[17:16:22] <gregcnc> did you check the reduction ratio on the axis motors?
[17:16:31] <DaViruz> re: new holders, i've been in contact with the swedish agent for emco. they are terrible
[17:16:40] <DaViruz> hm, i have not
[17:16:53] <DaViruz> though i believe it's stated in some manual i have
[17:17:16] <gregcnc> I guessed 2:1 based on diameters scaled from the parts list
[17:18:25] <DaViruz> i think i have a few spare pulleys that came with the mill
[17:18:51] <Deejay> gn8
[17:18:56] <nubcake> n8
[17:19:17] <DaViruz> 2:1 would be my guess
[17:19:36] <gregcnc> just doing to calcs for thrust/resolution/speed
[17:22:56] <DaViruz> the MSD says 400 steps / mm at least
[17:30:33] <gregcnc> daviruz yes, that works out for 2:1 reduction and half stepping 5 phase steppers
[18:07:23] <nubcake> n8
[18:36:22] <JT-i3> XXCoder:
[19:53:36] <MacGalempsy_> good evening
[19:54:51] <MacGalempsy> if everything works out ok, I should be able to test some motors soon
[21:20:04] <Jymmm> Loetmichel_: I played around today with pipe in bbq and the connected to small radiator on a 0.67gal/min pump in the worse case scenario. Not bad overall, but I think I'd need like a car radiator and a bigger pump to come close to being able to heat a cardboard box (the uninsulated garage).
[21:34:33] <jdh> how about some insulation and a mini-split?
[21:54:10] <Jymmm> jdh: Where does the cheap/free firewood go?
[21:54:37] <Tom_L> up in smoke?
[21:55:27] <Jymmm> Tom_L: No smoke if I get the reburnerdone properly
[21:57:08] <Jymmm> Loetmichel_: Is 'bullerjan' a german word? brand name? generic name?
[22:21:45] <CaptHindsight> brand name, not a word as far as I know
[22:23:00] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Do you happen to know a "generic" name for that type/style of stove?
[22:25:30] <Tom_L> http://www.treehugger.com/sustainable-product-design/bullerjan-stove-designed-by-canadian-lumberjacks.html
[22:28:18] <Tom_L> https://www.bullerjan.com/en/products/free-flow/
[22:28:23] <Jymmm> Bullerjan being built https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezxCnRCoW8k
[22:28:23] <Tom_L> has some performance data
[22:29:57] <Tom_L> break out your welder...
[22:31:11] <Jymmm> Someone already has... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_2isCaAbdA