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[00:01:51] <XXCoder> heh
[00:39:11] * SpeedEvil is annoyed.
[00:39:20] <SpeedEvil> Tehre was a nice episode of 'grand designs'
[00:39:29] <SpeedEvil> that made a house with a router.
[00:39:58] <SpeedEvil> lots of tabbed-together boxes of plywood to make the structure.
[00:42:53] <XXCoder> what ya think
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/77886650/wifi-motors?ref=category lol
[00:43:06] <XXCoder> idea is pretty awesome, but looks like project is utter faikl
[00:45:15] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[01:09:39] <XXCoder> you guys may be interested
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2129383335/i-extruder-smart-solder-paste-and-fluids-dispenser
[01:09:45] <XXCoder> it also can do pick and place
[01:28:11] <SpeedEvil> Icing?
[01:28:23] <XXCoder> nah solder paste
[01:28:25] <XXCoder> or glue
[01:28:44] <XXCoder> I suppose any gel type would work
[03:12:24] <Deejay> moin
[05:22:44] <Jymmm> Deejay: ug
[05:23:29] <XXCoder> yo
[05:40:09] <pink_vampire> hi XXCoder
[05:40:15] <XXCoder> yo
[05:41:57] <XXCoder> whats up
[05:42:46] <pink_vampire> I'm working on a list
[05:43:01] <XXCoder> the good and the bad list? lol
[05:43:27] <pink_vampire> no
[05:43:54] <pink_vampire> just stuff that need to be added to the head controller
[05:44:19] <pink_vampire> i want to replace the spindle.
[05:44:30] <XXCoder> whats wrong with current
[05:46:32] <pink_vampire> sooo slow
[05:48:30] <XXCoder> too low rpm or what
[05:48:54] <pink_vampire> yesterday i did new heads for the hammer
[05:49:05] <pink_vampire> it was fun to make
[05:50:14] <XXCoder> ah yeah rubber plastic or aluminium ends hammer
[05:50:21] <pink_vampire> pvc
[05:51:00] <XXCoder> you might want to look into melting HDPE plastic (milk cartons) into blocks to mill em
[05:51:19] <Jymmm> pvc? Barbi Hammer?
[05:52:06] <pink_vampire> hammer for setup
[05:52:34] * Jymmm has never seen a pvc hammer.
[05:54:23] <pink_vampire> one sec i'm taking a pic
[05:54:53] <Jymmm> no need, I see it/them now. I always thought the amber thing was something other than pvc
[05:55:13] <Jymmm> like acrylic or some such material
[05:55:34] <Jymmm> I'm excluding dead blow hammers here.
[05:56:11] <Jymmm> https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1NA86KVXXXXXlapXXq6xXFXXXa/free-shipping-pruning-steel-gardening-farm-used-tools-hardware-rubber-font-b-pvc-b-font-double.jpg
[05:56:18] <Jymmm> thanks
[05:57:29] <pink_vampire> http://www.harborfreight.com/watchmakers-hammer-with-6-heads-99895.html
[05:57:37] <pink_vampire> before ^
[05:57:41] <pink_vampire> after
[05:57:50] <pink_vampire> http://i.imgur.com/mTHrVJs.png
[05:58:18] <Jymmm> heh
[05:59:15] <pink_vampire> it's the second time that i'm build heads for it. i'm using it all the time.
[05:59:26] <pink_vampire> look at the old ones
[06:01:21] <pink_vampire> i like the fact that it's pvc, so i can use some sand paper to remove the black layer that stick to it and gel a new surface all the time
[06:01:23] <Jymmm> Why not one of these, more meat on it
https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1vmX2KVXXXXbWXVXXq6xXFXXXx/free-shipping-pruning-steel-gardening-farm-used-tools-hardware-rubber-pvc-font-b-hammer-b-font.jpg
[06:01:44] <pink_vampire> too heavy, big
[06:02:21] <pink_vampire> i'm use it for align small stuff on the vise,
[06:03:27] <pink_vampire> the whole point is to be very delicate so the part don't move much.
[06:04:02] <Jymmm> 2x2 stick
[06:04:50] <pink_vampire> also i've used it to move the din rails and level them
[06:05:16] <Jymmm> Get a 2x2, and you'll have plenty of spares
[06:05:55] <Jymmm> and seems more durable than that watchmaker heads
[06:06:11] <Jymmm> and non-maring
[06:06:41] <Jymmm> or a leather hammer
[06:06:49] <pink_vampire> i just love it
[06:07:28] <Jymmm> I see that, but having to rebuild it multpe times seems exvessive for a tool
[06:07:37] <Jymmm> excessive
[06:08:04] <pink_vampire> i was less the 3 minutes to cut them
[06:08:17] <Jymmm> from what?
[06:08:24] <pink_vampire> 3 min for about a year of using it...
[06:08:34] <Jymmm> cut from what?
[06:08:46] <pink_vampire> pvc trim board
[06:08:58] <pink_vampire> it's foamed pvc
[06:09:43] <Jymmm> why are you hammering with a foamed product?
[06:10:28] <Jymmm> a piece of pvc conduit seems to be better, even if sand filled
[06:10:53] <Jymmm> and last much longer
[06:11:01] <Jymmm> I'm just trying to understand
[06:11:24] <pink_vampire> it's very durable but allow you to also use it on soft materials without leaving a mark
[06:12:02] <pink_vampire> i just used the the stuff that i have here..
[06:12:10] <Jymmm> I beat the crap out of stuff with my dead blow hammer, and the only mark is of the plastic itself, cause it's really old and abused now.
[06:12:31] <Jymmm> leaves smug marks
[06:12:39] <Jymmm> scub marks
[06:12:42] <Jymmm> scuff
[06:12:44] <XXCoder> smug marks lol
[06:12:52] <Jymmm> smudge
[06:13:15] <Jymmm> if it was new, that wouldn't be the case,
[06:13:15] <pink_vampire> i have rubber / plastic hammer
[06:14:00] <jthornton> morning
[06:14:01] <pink_vampire> but i never use it since i have the cute one
[06:14:21] <pink_vampire> hi jthornton
[06:14:54] <XXCoder> hey
[06:14:57] <jthornton> what's up this morning
[06:15:04] <XXCoder> printing a marble colored rocket
[06:15:08] <XXCoder> because why not
[06:15:10] <jthornton> had to replace the ramps board
[06:15:18] <pink_vampire> http://i.imgur.com/mTHrVJs.png
[06:15:39] <jthornton> used the latest marlin and it homes like LinuxCNC so I have to adjust some
[06:16:52] <jthornton> you printed the handle?
[06:17:42] <pink_vampire> jthornton: the handle is 3d machined wood, the heads are foamed pvc
[06:18:37] <jthornton> cool, you have a rotary axis or you did it on the lathe?
[06:18:46] <pink_vampire> mill
[06:19:00] <pink_vampire> i have a video of the handle machining
[06:19:08] <jthornton> cool
[06:20:31] <pink_vampire> Your account has limited video storage – videos older than 30 days will be deleted.
[06:20:44] <pink_vampire> so.. i don't have it anymore
[06:21:05] <Jymmm> pink_vampire: where the hell is that?
[06:21:14] <XXCoder> youtube now has live streaming and you can save video forever now
[06:21:38] <pink_vampire> it's on ustream tv.
[06:21:47] <Jymmm> pink_vampire: ah, bummer
[06:21:50] <pink_vampire> was**
[06:21:58] <jthornton> dang I hate that
[06:22:19] <XXCoder> youtube have effectively killed ustrea,
[06:22:20] <Jymmm> Yeah, dont delete my shit
[06:23:11] <Jymmm> XXCoder: they were cool in the beginning, but last I looked they kinda sucked, and now delete stuff, yeah, no thanks.
[06:24:07] <Jymmm> Heh, everything is cloud storage. My question is, Where's my shit if I need it? =)
[06:25:01] <pink_vampire> it was my first 3d machining :(
[06:25:35] <Jymmm> If california broke off and turned into an island, is my shit in California? North America? Antartica?
[06:27:09] <Jymmm> or D) All the above =)
[06:27:18] <pink_vampire> that was the handle design
http://i.imgur.com/7ptq1jm.png
[06:29:14] <pink_vampire> an this is how cut the heads
http://i.imgur.com/RJj5iwG.png
[06:29:18] <jthornton> I hope that PLC job goes good this morning
[06:29:34] <pink_vampire> plc?
[06:29:53] <jthornton> Programmable Logic Controller
[06:30:19] <archivist> or an arguino when it grows up
[06:30:22] <pink_vampire> i know what is plc,,
[06:30:31] <jthornton> I replaced one on lumber dip tank machine and the power supply went out and made my pc reboot over and over
[06:30:37] <jthornton> Automation Direct Click
[06:30:49] <pink_vampire> but the ardoino is micro controller
[06:31:08] <archivist> plc is just a boxed micro controller
[06:31:12] <jthornton> yea the ardunio is not a PLC
[06:31:40] <jthornton> not really a PLC does many things that a micro controller does not do like self check
[06:32:24] <archivist> any thing can and is programmed in to any micro controller
[06:33:08] <Jymmm> Can't a PLC do multiple things concurrently that a uC can't?
[06:36:29] <jthornton> a PLC reads all the inputs then solves all the logic then updates the outputs then does a self check
[06:40:04] <archivist> with an internal program running on a micro
[06:57:32] <enleth> jthornton: it's still a boxed microcontroller. What do you think is inside, magic pixies? Someone just wrote that software that does self checks etc. for you
[06:58:03] <enleth> jthornton: you could do that on a microcontroller and it would do absolutely the same things, just with no one to blame if it fails and your factory blows up.
[06:59:14] <jthornton> lol
[06:59:43] <CaptHindsight> it's all magic
[07:00:36] <enleth> well there's stuff like properly isolated I/O in a PLC as well, that you get out of the box, but it's still just a uC preloaded with high quality firmware, accompanied by high quality I/O circuitry and put in a box with a big name logo
[07:01:08] <enleth> nothing fundamental preventing anyone with the right skills from making the same thing themselves
[07:01:10] <CaptHindsight> magic with legal advice
[07:01:14] <archivist> lower cost plc's exist with lesser names on the box
[07:04:28] <enleth> OTOH I've got a friend who's still in trade school, learning control systems and electronics, who convinced himself that he could build a PLC and sell it - and he just can't understand that no big business would buy his stuff, even if it's well designed, because he doesn't have a QA department to check his stuff and can't be sued for damages
[07:05:26] <enleth> or rather, he can, but by the time the only thing he's got is a pair of socks, they'd get back just about enough to pay one lawyer for his coffee break
[07:07:50] <jthornton> and you can get an Automation Direct Click for $79
[07:08:11] <jthornton> and it comes with free programming software
[07:08:21] <enleth> that, too
[07:09:09] <archivist> take one to bits see which micro hides within
[07:09:13] <enleth> although I'm not sure if suing the chinese importer is going to go any better
[07:12:19] <CaptHindsight> heh
http://www.openplcproject.com/ http://controllino.biz/ smell the quality
[07:15:48] <archivist> first has real quality html I get a white screen <body><div id="SITE_CONTAINER"></div><!-- No Footer --></body>
[07:18:34] <renesis> enleth: shrug, i worked for a place sued a chinese contract manufacturer and won
[07:18:54] <renesis> they announced it at a quarterly meeting all proud
[07:19:07] <CaptHindsight> that's because you're supposed to have a browser that ignores that andjust automatically runs any flash, Java or JS that it comes across
[07:19:17] <renesis> we later found out which one, and it was basically one of the biggest ones that services our industry
[07:19:42] <renesis> and yeah we were trying to get them to build shit for us within a couple years
[07:19:46] <SpeedEvil> Sued - and was able to collect?
[07:19:49] <renesis> like some battered wife shit
[07:20:03] <SpeedEvil> Because sued is often the easy bit
[07:20:45] <enleth> renesis: yeah, the question is, did you actually get anything out of it?
[07:20:46] <renesis> AND THEN we found out that the reason they painted out shit purple and sold it as if it was a finished product was because we had them do a prototype production run, then told them we werent going to pay for it when we canceled the project
[07:21:01] <renesis> enleth: youre kidding right?
[07:21:16] <renesis> they got the settlement and the ability to say they won in chinese court vs a CM
[07:22:20] <renesis> the company i worked at also survived long enough to be bought by the motorcycle-piano people, which is a pretty good long term outcome
[07:22:41] <renesis> so the question isnt really if the company got anything out of it
[07:22:41] <enleth> heh, don't try to play the "let's fuck them over" game with the chinese
[07:22:48] <enleth> they're good at it and they'll win
[07:22:52] <renesis> the question is how many customers were serviced in this time
[07:23:09] <renesis> thousands of happy customers
[07:23:12] <renesis> enleth: eh?
[07:23:18] <renesis> theyre business people and workers
[07:23:35] <renesis> they got fucked over for years and treated like lesser people by foreign management
[07:23:46] <renesis> now they have enough business they dont have to sit there and take getting yelled at
[07:24:01] <renesis> so managers go there and pull that shit and they just wont quote reasonably anymore
[07:24:43] <renesis> they win and lose just like everyone else, but as far as 'fucked over', theyre just doing better than us at capitalism at the moment
[07:24:52] <renesis> we took advantage of their situation for quite a long time
[07:26:19] <enleth> well, yeah, what I mean is exactly that they're better at capitalism and one shouldn't try things like telling them that the project is cancelled and there will be no payment
[07:26:56] <renesis> why shouldnt you try it if it worked multiple times before and your china IP lawyer is awesome/.
[07:27:01] <enleth> they'll do whatever it takes to come up on top, and their government will support them legally
[07:27:02] <renesis> ?
[07:27:07] <renesis> nope
[07:27:13] <renesis> their government will shut them the fuck down
[07:27:16] <renesis> too many complaints
[07:27:36] <renesis> when there are problems, you actually have to keep the issues on the down low if you want your project to finish
[07:27:40] <SpeedEvil> If you have a careful IP agreement in chinese saying that you own the IP and they have no rights to it, and they must return all tooling and other things, then you may be OK
[07:27:55] <SpeedEvil> otherwise - not so much
[07:27:58] <renesis> you still have to babysit, most likely
[07:28:48] <enleth> renesis: you sure that "shut them down" won't just mean "hey, guys, go change your name and company registration numbers, there's too much shit coming in for the current ones"
[07:29:31] <renesis> lost project and clients effectively make that a new company
[07:29:59] <renesis> most likely youre not going to be doing business with them again if you were the reason they were shut down
[07:30:23] <enleth> but someone else might be
[07:30:38] <renesis> so what, thats what theyre looking for
[07:31:05] <enleth> and you can go and sue the "bakrupt" shell of a company while the actuall assets are being used by the "new" one
[07:31:06] <renesis> if they wanted quality and credibility its likely they wouldnt be shopping little CM like that
[07:31:34] <renesis> obviously the CM im talking about is huge
[07:32:52] <renesis> if you went in their for cheap shit with no QA presence, got in with the cheapest shop, has your shit fall apart
[07:32:58] <renesis> then yeah youre an idiot if you sue
[07:33:19] <renesis> its diff if youre a $100M sales company, dealing with a CM that has a dozen clients like you
[07:33:36] <renesis> they cant just shut down to avoid your lawsuit
[07:34:10] <enleth> but then it's probably no longer cheap shit
[07:34:27] <renesis> its still cheaper than some other options and better quality than some cheaper options
[07:34:28] <enleth> they're perfectly capable of making quality stuff if you pay for quality stuff
[07:34:37] <renesis> no you dont have to pay more usually
[07:34:46] <enleth> well, for chinese quality stuff
[07:34:51] <renesis> just show up and be competent enough to show them how to do it right when they arent
[07:34:56] <renesis> instead of just yelling at them
[07:35:00] <enleth> ah, that works too
[07:35:16] <renesis> which is what happens alot because the foreign managers dont know the solution
[07:35:31] <enleth> but you need someone skilled in overcoming the cultural and language barriers for that
[07:35:38] <renesis> they dont want to do it wrong, that makese no sense
[07:35:47] <renesis> they want to do it right for you as fast as possible
[07:35:54] <CaptHindsight> and bring a box to save faces
[07:35:58] <renesis> because then they will do it right for the next customer with little or no training
[07:36:10] <renesis> capthindsight: ya srs
[07:36:22] <renesis> if you yell at a manager in front of his workers, just go home
[07:36:36] <renesis> you fucked that contract permanently
[07:36:51] <renesis> you need to find a new CM, no exageration
[07:37:19] <renesis> when american managers claim being fucked over by chinese CM, the majority of times it is this
[07:37:46] <renesis> and usually theyre people that have been doing this for like 10+ years who are used to being able to yell at them
[07:37:57] <renesis> back when they desperately needed the business, which they dont anymore
[07:40:01] <renesis> alternatively, you buy your line workers a round of pizza and youre like a legend there for years
[07:40:25] <renesis> it turns out, the mfkrs are people
[08:05:03] <gregcnc> there are people there who get it, not all yet
[08:23:22] <CaptHindsight> they just want to make $$ and don't let western philosophy get in their way
[08:24:29] <gregcnc> but really are people at home any different, the threat of being sued is maybe a little more deterrent to poor behaviour, but here you can bankrrupt and start over just as easily
[08:25:32] <CaptHindsight> different socialization
[08:26:21] <CaptHindsight> they have changed guberments ever couple generations where history has been erased along with millions of people
[08:26:35] <CaptHindsight> ever/every
[08:29:47] <CaptHindsight> they really aren't concerned about being sued
[08:30:09] <gregcnc> sure they are essentially immune to it
[08:31:58] <CaptHindsight> if you order a steak and they serve you a block of wood painted brown and you don't complain they see that as a good deal
[08:32:41] <gregcnc> if don't don't value return business, yes but some do
[08:33:17] <CaptHindsight> they see it from the profit perspective, they don't see that as cheating or trying to fool you
[08:33:51] <CaptHindsight> in the west it's looks like they are trying to fool you
[08:34:10] <CaptHindsight> they just start or see things from the opposite spectrum
[08:34:22] <gregcnc> from the toy RC airplane world there is one guy that is known to run a comany until problems arise, then jump ship and start another
[08:34:41] <gregcnc> people were so hungry for cheap product they didn't care
[08:34:52] <CaptHindsight> most people
[08:35:00] <gregcnc> until they weren't so cheap anymore, but the problems the same
[08:39:07] <gregcnc> we know profit also comes from being reputable and reliable, some there see it. Finding those suppliers is tough, because they are tied up
[08:42:52] <CaptHindsight> branding replaced quality and reliability here years ago, very few people know what that even is
[08:46:56] <gregcnc> what amazes me is people are willing to put so much money forward to something that doesn't even exist with crowdfunded projects
[08:47:47] <cradek> I think part of that is the same draw as gambling
[08:48:05] <cradek> and you sometimes get cool widgets
[08:48:31] <gregcnc> being able to say i was part of that?
[08:49:38] <CaptHindsight> this channel tends to be full of people that under stand materials, how things work and precision
[08:49:57] <CaptHindsight> completely unlike the average consumer
[08:51:20] <CaptHindsight> status symbols, branding cover those who have some disposable income
[08:51:41] <CaptHindsight> cheapest is for everyone else
[08:55:04] <gregcnc> yeah, I don't get it. If i did, I'd be able to market a product to those people. but it seems these days they try hard to find you
[08:59:05] <CaptHindsight> offer services to help suppliers lower their manufacturing costs
[09:00:05] <CaptHindsight> have you seen how thin the sheet metal is getting in appliances
[09:00:51] <gregcnc> yes, my washer has litterlly bent the sheet metal banging itself to death in the spin cycle
[09:01:40] <gregcnc> it can't sense when balance is bad and when it's not
[09:02:56] <CaptHindsight> slap a 24ga SS face on and charge $500 more for commercial grade
[09:03:41] <gregcnc> right
[09:05:32] <CaptHindsight> but every now and then they cut too many corners and their products explode
[09:05:57] <gregcnc> i didn't follow the samsung phone thing
[09:06:00] <CaptHindsight> Samsung took a gamble
[09:06:17] <CaptHindsight> they knew that their batteries were crap
[09:06:45] <gregcnc> battery itself or charge/monitoring circuit?
[09:07:31] <CaptHindsight> both
[09:07:56] <CaptHindsight> they have been overheating during use, off and during charge
[09:08:10] <gregcnc> i can't understand why companies risk suicide like that either
[09:08:39] <MacGalempsy> morning
[09:08:40] <gregcnc> i guess to some, if you keep quiet there is no problem
[09:09:14] <gregcnc> well i guess that's quite common
[09:09:23] <CaptHindsight> I don' think people will remember that phone for long
[09:10:57] <CaptHindsight> the skill is in knowing how cheaply to design a product so that it just lasts to just beyond the warranty
[09:11:16] <MacGalempsy> yup
[09:12:16] <gregcnc> for consumer products
[09:13:32] <CaptHindsight> the majority of what is produced
[09:15:47] <gregcnc> maybe for some products that will only work until people figure it out
[09:16:02] <CaptHindsight> they don't
[09:16:10] <CaptHindsight> they are trained not to
[09:17:07] <CaptHindsight> we are in a small minority
[09:29:23] <gonzo_> there is a gap between the number of faulty/bad products you can sell and the number that people can be bothered to return
[09:29:32] <gonzo_> that is your profit margin
[09:30:33] <gregcnc> is that what business has come to?
[09:31:03] <gonzo_> it's not new. One of the eng's I used to work with, designed TV's in the 60's. They had an acceptible failure rate off the production line. If you didn't reach that rate, you were considered to have overengineered
[09:32:46] <CaptHindsight> back when a TV was a piece of furniture made from hardwoods
[09:34:10] <CaptHindsight> gonzo_: the leader in that business approach
http://tvontheporch.com/photo6_15.html
[09:34:15] <gregcnc> i can't see anyone not returning a TV today even if they are much cheaper today than the 60's
[09:36:06] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: well you buy that 2 year extended warranty for 10% of your purchase price
[09:36:25] <CaptHindsight> you lose the paperwork months later, then it dies
[09:36:25] <archivist> car maker were buggers for designed in failure rates
[09:36:51] <gregcnc> yeah i used to sell those at best buy, i never met quota
[09:37:22] <gregcnc> i got out when they started making it mandatory
[09:38:18] <CaptHindsight> they tell you that it's good for 2-3 years (whatever) but not that it's for only one time in that period
[09:38:31] <archivist> 1960's failure rates
http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=returns
[09:39:29] <gregcnc> 100% eh
[09:39:50] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: just be sure that your product goes bad before the warranty is up
[09:40:04] <gregcnc> after?
[09:40:47] <archivist> couple more graphs
http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=return+PS
[09:40:50] <gregcnc> i'm not sure lucas is a good example
[09:40:53] <CaptHindsight> if everyone would return their products, they would stop selling the warranties
[09:41:03] <CaptHindsight> hehe, was just going to say that
[09:41:26] <CaptHindsight> then again maybe it was genius
[09:41:37] <archivist> target .5%
[09:41:58] <gregcnc> what was most surprising to an BB was that cheap defective product that did get returned went straight to the dumpster
[09:42:39] <gregcnc> surprising to me at bb
[09:43:29] <gregcnc> product development and field testing for free?
[09:44:16] <CaptHindsight> we used to wear out all the gaming accessories long before the warranty was up
[09:44:26] <archivist> they were less bothered by returns in those days, they had bought up all the competition in the uk
[09:45:20] <CaptHindsight> wear them out, return under warranty for new replacement, and sell on ebay
[09:45:29] <gonzo_> with some white goods, they try and sell you a warantee at the time of sale, that included the mfrs warantee period too. But after the mfrs warantee expires, they write to offer you an extension anyway
[09:46:39] <archivist> the goods are designed to outlast those extended warrantees anyway
[09:46:43] <gonzo_> and offer it year after year, even if you didn't take it before
[09:47:00] <gonzo_> so just wait till it dies, then take the cover for the year
[09:47:21] <cradek> archivist: love the oops-I-picked-the-wrong-scale on that first one
[09:48:31] <archivist> hand drawn and photographed in those days
[09:48:42] <CaptHindsight> the used car warranties don't cover much
[09:49:14] <gonzo_> I've heard sales people selling the wantentee on big-arsed TV;s, to people worried about how long a format/tech may last for, saying that you can break it and clai=m at the end of the period to get a new tv of a new spec
[09:49:28] <gregcnc> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzQCj-dbgN0
[09:49:42] <gonzo_> that must be illegal
[09:49:48] <CaptHindsight> there is some new warranty for cars being sold on TV, not sure what it doesn't cover
[09:49:57] <CaptHindsight> most likely any moving parts
[09:50:52] <CaptHindsight> Range Rover, say no more
[09:51:29] <gonzo_> I've written service contract getout's, that covered pretty much every compnent in a unit
[09:52:39] <gonzo_> but it was for a unit that the customer's policy was that they had to have cover, regardless of it's worth
[09:52:39] <archivist> the law has a get out for unreasonable contracts, your contract is null and void
[09:53:12] <SpeedEvil> Less so often for B2B
[09:53:21] <gonzo_> medical kit. Exempt consumables, anything in contact with customer chems/fluids, batts, manbrane keyboards
[09:53:25] <SpeedEvil> Many consumer protections don't operate at all B2B.
[09:53:30] <gonzo_> there was not much left!
[09:54:12] <gonzo_> the main board was pretty well built so they never failed.
[09:54:14] <archivist> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfair_Contract_Terms_Act_1977
[09:54:58] <gonzo_> only one I had die, they shipped it back with reagents in. And was sat on a shelf soaked in sodium hydroxide for weeks
[09:55:05] <gonzo_> even the case had been eaten
[09:55:17] <CaptHindsight> archivist: but you have state healthcare with death panels and you have to wait months for surgery :)
[09:56:18] <archivist> present yourself at A&E to avoid some queues
[09:59:09] <CaptHindsight> archivist: are consumer product warranties there all 2 years?
[09:59:52] <SpeedEvil> After 6 months, you need to prove more - basically that it wasn't your fault it died.
[10:00:20] <SpeedEvil> but 2 years is the general period - though it can be 'not of merchantable quality' if it fails afterwards
[10:00:35] <SpeedEvil> For example, a freezer that dies after 2 years, you may still have a claim.
[10:02:00] <SpeedEvil> Plus, anything ordered online can be returned up to 14 days afterwards with you at most having to pay postage. (unless custom)
[10:04:37] <gregcnc> wtf this compressor has what seems to be 3/8"-19 BSP connections
[10:05:37] <archivist> most of the rest of the world is BSP
[10:59:10] <JT-Shop> pcw_home: can you use a npn prox for limit switches on a 7i76?
[11:09:25] <pcw_home> By adding a 2K pullup to +12/24V you can (PNP Prox's dont need any extra components)
[11:16:36] <JT-Shop> thanks
[11:23:31] <Tom_L> dang, what did i miss at the morning meeting today?
[12:58:46] <Denkishi-> Any issues with running 6061 at 100sfm? Have a .125 4 flute cutter and maths say around 8500 rpm and 342 feed @ a .01 removal rate. The issue is the machine maxes out at 4200 rpm and 150 ipm feed.
[12:59:16] <Denkishi-> er and the 8500 is with the standard 280sfm for 6061
[13:01:47] <gregcnc> running slower is rarely a problem, but .010" per tooth? sounds a little crazy unless it's a HSM path
[13:02:04] <Denkishi-> That should be .001 :/
[13:02:46] <gregcnc> just run whatever RPM you have and the recommended feed per tooth
[13:04:22] <Denkishi-> yeah and googd thing you said something about that lol. 34.2 ipm @ 8500 seems more sensible lol
[13:04:36] <Denkishi-> so roughlt 15 @ 4200
[13:04:41] <Denkishi-> roughly*
[13:04:45] <gregcnc> that will work
[13:48:05] <Tom_L> .004 isn't unreasonable
[13:48:44] <Tom_L> probably wouldn't finish at that rate
[13:49:25] <R2E4> Servo system with encoders and 7i77, when I touch off and it doesnt go to zero but .043 or something similar, where can I start looking for issues.
[13:50:22] <R2E4> no offsets....
[13:51:55] <pcw_home> Is that the commanded or feedback position?
[14:22:49] <CaptHindsight> whats the name of the messenger/delivery service that Amazon uses?
[14:24:04] <gregcnc> speedy?
[14:24:27] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: might be the one that they use around here for Same Day delivery
[14:24:32] <gregcnc> speedee
[14:28:45] <R2E4> feedback
[14:29:31] <R2E4> When I turn on the machine, and do a touch off. not homing yet.
[14:30:08] <gregcnc> are you touching off the same coordinate system your'e working in?
[14:31:54] <cradek> are feedback and commanded values the same?
[14:42:19] <andypugh> I wonder what this is?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Engineering-tools-Lathe-parts-/201699059654
[14:42:32] <andypugh> Certainly not a “cutting tool”
[14:42:54] <andypugh> It might be a woodturning deive dog
[14:43:00] <andypugh> (drive dog)
[14:43:14] <gregcnc> face driver soudns right
[14:43:17] <andypugh> Or it _might_ be a face-drive centre.
[14:46:06] <andypugh> I took a punt on it being a face-drive centre for metal. I have veen wanting one for quite a while. I will find out what it is when it arrives :-)
[14:47:01] <DaViruz> it probably needs a regrind!
[14:49:36] <andypugh> Without a doubt
[14:50:02] <cradek> sure looks like what a wood lathe has
[14:50:35] <andypugh> Lathes typically have fixed ones. The ones for metal have a hydraulic or spring thing.
[14:50:57] <andypugh> And it would be hard to wear it out that way on wood?
[14:51:46] <andypugh> They do exist for metal:
http://www.riten.com/technical-support/introduction-to-face-driving/
[15:11:11] <_methods> http://eshop.roehm.biz/media/attachment/file/d/c/dc0001330.pdf
[15:11:13] <DaViruz> http://www.ecatalog.rohm-products.com/static/products/IM0005899.jpg
[15:11:14] <_methods> looks a bit liek that
[15:11:38] <_methods> lol beat ya
[15:11:44] <DaViruz> come on now, the exact same product within a second
[15:12:01] <_methods> hahah
[15:12:05] <DaViruz> i wonder if those points are supposed to engage with something
[15:12:11] <DaViruz> or if they are supposed to be ground
[15:12:20] <DaViruz> or neither?=
[15:12:29] <_methods> i'm assuming it's for grinding your own custom point
[15:13:02] <gregcnc> Emco had a face driver for their 6/120/220 series in the parts list, but the center was sprung
[15:38:35] <andypugh> Blimey! They arent’t messign about here with the lathe and fae driver:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UriWQVTSXQo
[15:39:55] <DaViruz> i wonder what the tailstock force is
[15:43:04] <DaViruz> "Man it sure is easy to turn a face driver into a face mill."
[16:16:25] <Jymmm> andypugh: I dont know what all the hoopla is about, I do that with Ti in my craftsman drillpress all the time
[16:17:10] <XXCoder> do what?
[16:17:18] <Tom_L> dreams
[16:18:49] <Tom_L> andypugh, i thought you just did that with wood
[16:18:55] <Tom_L> never seen metal held like that
[16:21:00] <Jymmm> I've never seen a spindle on a tool changer before
[16:21:21] <gregcnc> uh, live tooling...
[16:21:24] <Tom_L> live center
[16:21:24] <XXCoder> any links so i can see whats talked about? heh
[16:21:42] <Tom_L> XXCoder, zlog
[16:21:45] <Tom_L> zlog
[16:21:51] <XXCoder> thanks
[16:24:14] <gregcnc> jymmm if you think tooling is expensive look at live tool holder prices
[16:24:46] <XXCoder> solutions, not excuses. nice company byline
[16:25:20] <Jymmm> gregcnc: Yeah, I know what you mean...
http://www.staples.com/Duct-Tape/cat_CL167765
[16:25:44] <Jymmm> gregcnc: dont get me started on the price of bailing wire these days ;)
[16:26:04] <gregcnc> some things have just gotten crazy
[16:26:37] <XXCoder> invasion of giant people
https://foreignpolicymag.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/photoshopfail_121.jpg
[16:27:11] <Jymmm> Oh (seriously) there is no longer any such thing as "1000 MPH duct tape" these days. Every brand I tested (including 3M) has very low adhesive on it
[16:27:27] <XXCoder> too bad space tape is fictional
[16:28:24] <XXCoder> but then its suppoely 100k per reel lol
[16:28:33] <XXCoder> $100k I mean
[16:29:31] <Jymmm> Heh, I want a roll just because...
http://www.staples.com/ShurTech-GLDT-Glow-In-The-Dark-White-Duck-Tape-10-x-1-88-/product_300850
[16:30:04] <Jymmm> $1/ft
[16:31:09] <gregcnc> i hate ordering form mcmaster because I always remember something right after i hit send and I have stuff saved I don't remember what for
[16:32:58] <roycroft> hey folks
[16:33:03] <roycroft> are any of you familiar with these spindles:
[16:33:05] <roycroft> http://www.ebay.com/itm/121475574421
[16:33:17] <roycroft> i'm looking to use one with a vfd for a wood router table
[16:33:31] <roycroft> they have decent specs
[16:34:46] <_methods> Jymmm: did you try milspec tape
[16:35:21] <Jymmm> _methods: I doubt they have that at the big orange borg
[16:35:33] <_methods> https://www.amazon.com/Polyken-Premium-Military-Grade-Duct/dp/B003ZFE6WU
[16:35:58] <_methods> ASTM D -5486 Type IV Class 1
[16:36:02] <_methods> that's the good shit
[16:36:37] <Jymmm> _methods: I'll look at the link once I finish watcing this poor bastard kill his back being a lathe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2jP219H1Fw
[16:36:47] <_methods> lol
[16:41:37] <Tom_L> what's he makin? firewood?
[16:42:55] <Jymmm> Ok, NOW WE'RE TALKING...Not sur eI want to arm a robot with a nailgun though =)
[16:42:57] <Jymmm> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb4j51Mor20
[16:44:48] <Jymmm> LOVE that self-learning one though
[16:45:29] <Tom_L> must be a youtube kinda monday
[16:47:05] <gregcnc> we're going to need more humans to consume everything the robots produce
[16:50:11] <roycroft> they can just produce humanoid robots for which they can make stuff
[16:50:49] <Jymmm> gregcnc: s/consume/power/ Just take the red pill already
[16:50:53] <Jymmm> _methods:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Nashua-Tape-Nashua-1-89-in-x-60-1-yd-357-Ultra-Premium-Duct-Tape-1198683/204074417
[16:52:36] <Jymmm> gregcnc: The Matrix human batteries =)
[16:53:33] <gregcnc> it's all just a simulation so hopefully someone will just press reset after the election
[16:54:31] <Jymmm> gregcnc: Is "reset" an eutheism for "trigger" ?
[16:54:38] <nubcake> hi
[16:55:06] <Jymmm> gregcnc: If so, why wait till AFTER the election?
[16:55:25] <roycroft> can we have the election today so it will be over?
[16:56:39] <gregcnc> we can try again right from the big bang, after because I want to see the melt down
[16:56:58] <roycroft> it's squishy enough as is
[16:57:04] <roycroft> i don't need to wait for the complete meltdown
[16:58:14] <Tom_L> they need their day in the sun. the rest of the time all they do is sit around getting fat arguing with each other
[17:18:17] <sync> Jymmm: love the kuka with the jäger spindle
[17:30:24] <JT-Shop> hmm propane was $1.30 a gallon to fill up
[17:36:08] <lowridah> i tell ya what
[17:36:24] <lowridah> were that from strickland or arlen propane?
[17:38:24] <JT-Shop> MFA
[17:38:39] <JT-Shop> didn't Hank Hill work for strickland
[17:38:53] <lowridah> dang old, yea man.
[17:46:28] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: $1.30?!That's REALY cheap
[17:47:07] <Jymmm> Retail is like $3.50 and residential is like $2.35
[17:47:26] <Deejay> gn8
[17:47:31] <Jymmm> Deejay: gn9
[17:49:16] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: how many gallons did oyu buy?
[17:52:17] <JT-Shop> 337 gallons is how much I used since last October
[18:03:26] <CaptHindsight> anyone here in Phoenix?
[18:27:43] <andypugh> Ok, for fun, guess how many lins of G-code to make this?
https://goo.gl/photos/6CYavec6mAqewnjF7
[18:27:55] <andypugh> (lines of G-code, that is)
[18:30:25] <FloppyDisk525> 12341 lines of gcode...
[18:31:10] <FloppyDisk525> What's it for? Looks like a plastic cam shaft.
[18:31:51] <FloppyDisk525> Which, umm, means that it might melt in your engine... You might try a different material:-)
[18:33:59] <andypugh> It’s actually worse than that. it’s made of wax. In fact it is a machined candle. (And you are a long way iff with your G-code lines estimate)
[18:35:00] <tiwake> thats not a very optimized program
[18:35:43] <tiwake> I don't think Ive ever owned any machines that could hold that big of a program
[18:36:32] <lowridah> really?
[18:36:37] <lowridah> find . -name *.gcode -exec wc -l {} \;
[18:36:45] <lowridah> tons and tons fo gcode files with more line than that
[18:36:47] <andypugh> I didn’t say which way the estimate was off.
[18:37:08] <lowridah> 217850 ./mymodels/bergiebuilt3s.gcode
[18:37:14] <lowridah> lots 'o lines
[18:37:44] <tiwake> lowridah: its why I don't like most CAM programs... its like website builders were 10 years ago
[18:37:46] <tiwake> horrible
[18:38:30] <JT-Shop> UPS is going to hate me in a few days my weld table has shipped
[18:38:47] <_methods> you get a bluco?
[18:39:29] <andypugh> It’s actually 160 lines of G-code:
http://www.pastebin.ca/3734917
[18:39:38] <_methods> they make spiffy weld tables
[18:40:16] <JT-Shop> certi-flat
[18:46:35] <FloppyDisk525> is it cheating w/ all the loops? Nice!
[18:48:45] <andypugh> The pattern of each cam is set by the decimal-coded binary numbers in line 19 onwards.
[18:48:54] <_methods> ah are those the welding tables you have to put together
[18:49:10] <_methods> that youtube welder guy has one of those things right?
[18:50:31] <CaptHindsight> _methods: is this the guy that determines quality by the weight of the regulator?
[18:50:43] <_methods> hah no idea
[18:51:08] <_methods> he's about the only guy doing welding videos that appears to know what he's talking about
[18:51:43] <_methods> welding tips and tricks guy
[18:52:25] <CaptHindsight> not Mr. TIG
[18:52:31] <_methods> no that guy is terribad
[18:52:38] <JT-Shop> https://weldtables.com/
[18:52:52] <_methods> yeah i'm there now
[18:52:58] <_methods> a lot cheaper than a bluco that's for sure
[18:53:04] <JT-Shop> yea
[18:53:19] <andypugh> Probably not once postage is factored on.
[18:53:22] <JT-Shop> for my use that is great
[18:53:28] <_methods> definitely
[18:53:32] <JT-Shop> postage to UK?
[18:53:37] <andypugh> :-)
[18:53:54] <JT-Shop> actually using coupons I got free shipping
[18:54:35] <JT-Shop> I think it is tomorrow at Andy's house
[18:54:46] <andypugh> Not yet
[18:54:46] <CaptHindsight> the 3 x 4 table is $371 delivered
[18:55:32] <JT-Shop> if you use a special it could be
[18:55:36] <_methods> i need to cut one of those out at work
[18:55:44] <_methods> looks like they just use 1/4" steel
[18:55:49] <JT-Shop> they have overstock specials and other stuff
[18:56:05] <_methods> i'll make a small 24x24 one for the garage i think
[18:56:15] <CaptHindsight> GUARANTEED FLAT! to +/- .015" when assembled according to our instructions
[18:56:28] <_methods> i should be able to find enough drops around the shop to make one of those
[18:56:30] <JT-Shop> I got 24x36 with two 12x36 wings
[18:56:58] <CaptHindsight> I was just shopping for tables over the weekend
[18:57:08] <JT-Shop> most of my drops are 11gauge
[18:57:31] <_methods> i think i'll make it out of 3/8" though instead of 1/4"
[18:57:35] <CaptHindsight> found some used 4 x 8 complete for ~$800 with 1/2" plate on CL
[18:58:02] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: He spends a fair while explaining that a welding table that is +/- 15 thou is more than adequate. because you are welding on it.
[18:59:01] <CaptHindsight> I never have to weld anything with that precision
[18:59:55] * JT-Shop wanders inside for the night
[19:51:15] <Jymmm> Comments??? Sale ends TODAY...
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/hq-issue-outdoor-wood-stove?a=1884248
[19:51:23] <Jymmm> For the garage that is
[19:59:03] <Jymmm> The pipes are 3.375", is it going to be hard to find elbows? flue pipe? muffler pipe?
[20:06:53] <jdh> cheaper if you don't use a flue. just vent to the garage.
[20:07:01] <jdh> saves on wood also.
[20:12:33] <Jymmm> jdh: So, you gonna come over and cremmate my remains then?
[20:13:19] <jdh> maybe. depends on the election
[20:17:57] <Jymmm> Stove video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZj33jNs_Fk
[20:21:01] <jdh> wow, that thing shrunk when he walked up
[20:22:05] <jdh> no heat exchanger or any forced air?
[20:22:30] <Jymmm> nope, not even EPA junk either
[20:22:42] <Jymmm> no baffles, no firebrick
[20:23:26] <jdh> the suggested video after that is: NEW Teen Sexy Yoga Workout | Sexy Yoga Pants Training |
[20:23:51] <Jymmm> jdh: you must have been searching for yoga pants then =)
[20:24:12] <jdh> not that I recall
[20:24:24] <tiwake> you must have been drunk that night
[20:25:21] <malcom2073_> jdh: I was thinking the same thing about the size haha
[20:25:26] <malcom2073_> I expected it to be larger until he walked up
[20:25:32] <Jymmm> Gawd, do ppl make videos just to hear themselves talk and talk and talk and talk
[20:26:32] <pink_vampire> hi
[20:26:38] <Jymmm> malcom2073_: Yeah, that's exactly what I want.
[20:26:44] <malcom2073_> Jymmm: Why so small?
[20:26:50] <Jymmm> malcom2073_: for the garage
[20:26:54] <pink_vampire> someone can recognize the spindle here
http://www.pocketnc.com/pocketnc/spindle-upgrade
[20:27:06] <malcom2073_> garage or portapot?
[20:27:24] <Jymmm> malcom2073_: jdh maybe the OEM??? "Wildo"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEUBBDN93XQ
[20:27:33] <malcom2073_> Just seems kinda small to heat much more than a tiny shed
[20:27:39] <pink_vampire> also what kind of collets is that
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/52c06c29e4b0330e4569449b/564cb277e4b0baadec44972d/570fd4dbd51cd46f0571003d/1461955283309/IMG_2614.JPG?format=750w
[20:28:02] <Jymmm> malcom2073_: wood stoves REALLY put out heat
[20:28:21] <malcom2073_> Yeah, wood is awesomelike that
[20:29:54] <Jymmm> malcom2073_: Desc says "Heats tents up to 14' x 20'". My garage is 17x22 =)
[20:30:10] <malcom2073_> Hmm, guess if it's sealed up enough it should do alright
[20:30:39] <Jymmm> malcom2073_: Yeah, I already have some gasket material for the house wood stove
[20:33:05] <Jymmm> malcom2073_: AND I can keep coffee hot on top too =)
[20:35:19] <jdh> make a combo forge/heater
[20:36:11] <Jymmm> Another video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oe6tA4c0JBs
[20:36:55] <Jymmm> Nice size comparisn with the kettle on top
[20:49:53] <gregcnc> pink_vampire that is their own spindle now. collet is theirs too. first version was NSK
[20:50:09] <gregcnc> jymmm you moving into a tent?
[20:51:27] <jdh> tiny spindle. that's a 1/4" mill?
[20:59:41] <Jymmm> gregcnc: Nah, wood stove to heat the garage
[21:00:08] <Jymmm> gregcnc: Scroll to the last post...
http://www.uk-preppers.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4905
[21:02:45] <gregcnc> pg1 or 2"
[21:04:28] <sector_0> can i operate a headless LinuxCNC machine?
[21:04:54] <sector_0> I don't have a spare monitor for the system I'm going to install
[21:04:58] <sector_0> is this ok?
[21:04:58] <Jymmm> sector_0: only if you're bodyless
[21:06:08] <Jymmm> gregcnc:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v384/rik_uk3/DSCF0144.jpg~original
[21:06:18] <gregcnc> yes, many run remotely to avoid graphics related latency issues
[21:06:31] <gregcnc> you want to bake cookies while machining?
[21:07:14] <Jymmm> gregcnc: to go with the coffee of course
[21:07:40] <gregcnc> of course, you're right there
[21:08:52] <Jymmm> gregcnc: Indoors
http://camping-fife-near-edinburgh.blogspot.com/2009/10/duloch-hamlet-near-dalgety-bay.html
[21:09:02] <Jymmm> indoor'ish =)
[21:10:18] <sector_0> gregcnc, ok cool
[21:12:26] <sector_0> also are there any alternatives to using the db25 connector?
[21:13:25] <sector_0> I have a 775 board with that connection, but I'd be nice if I could use a smaller more compact cpu that I have lying around that doesn't have one
[21:14:26] <sector_0> I've been told before that the USB versions aren't the same..what the general consensus about these
[21:14:30] <sector_0> ?
[21:14:51] <gregcnc> there are quite a few options other than parallel port. mesa cards are popular
http://mesaus.com/
[21:24:16] <gregcnc> jymmm
https://youtu.be/TQYVuYkD2wA?t=2m28s
[21:27:12] <Jymmm> My "valid" phone number... 987-654-3210
[22:13:28] <pink_vampire> gregcnc: do you want to tell me that the whole machine that cost 5K$ was with NSK spindle??
[22:13:47] <pink_vampire> how much the NSK spindle cost?
