#linuxcnc | Logs for 2016-09-26

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[00:00:14] <pink_vampire> hiii
[00:24:21] <XXCoder> iiiiih
[00:25:07] <pink_vampire> i'm working on stand for my webcam
[00:25:11] <XXCoder> whats up 0over there Dracula's kid
[00:26:46] <pink_vampire> i'm fine
[00:26:57] <XXCoder> cool
[00:27:05] <XXCoder> just finally got home afetr helping friend then mom
[00:27:46] <pink_vampire> http://ustre.am/1qGHt
[00:28:34] <XXCoder> off air?
[00:28:53] <pink_vampire> opss
[00:30:13] <pink_vampire> XXCoder: ?
[00:30:26] <pink_vampire> you saw the video?
[00:30:32] <XXCoder> nice, you have kurt vice
[00:30:35] <XXCoder> part of it
[00:30:40] <XXCoder> saw cabient
[00:30:47] <XXCoder> then machine itself then kurt vice
[00:30:53] <pink_vampire> grizzly 5"
[00:31:01] <XXCoder> oh looks similiar
[00:32:30] <XXCoder> way too shaky lol had to look away
[00:32:31] <pink_vampire> i'm working on the mount
[00:32:53] <XXCoder> can be magnet base mount
[00:33:35] <XXCoder> https://securethumbs.ebay.com/d/l225/m/mUQaLhRXjsunrcBTpZQ1F9Q.jpg
[00:33:48] <XXCoder> noga is very expensive but theres plenty of cheap ones.
[00:34:04] <pink_vampire> i have one free
[00:34:19] <XXCoder> nice. I have two, one for woprk and one here
[00:34:39] <pink_vampire> the dial die
[00:35:00] <XXCoder> I need to find and buy cheap dial test indictor for home use
[00:35:10] <XXCoder> I only have dial indictor which is too big for most uses.
[00:37:39] <pink_vampire> XXCoder:
[00:37:40] <pink_vampire> look
[00:37:55] <XXCoder> looking
[00:38:09] <XXCoder> bit out of focus heh
[00:39:34] <XXCoder> wood with magnetic base interesting
[00:39:59] <pink_vampire|2> it a magnetic mount for car antenna
[00:40:08] <pink_vampire|2> super strong
[00:40:10] <pink_vampire|2> XXCoder:
[00:40:28] <XXCoder> yeah but same time base I linbked picture of you can turn magnet "off"
[00:40:36] <XXCoder> makes for easier removals
[00:40:52] <XXCoder> but same time yours was free
[00:40:59] <XXCoder> hard price to beat lol
[00:41:00] <pink_vampire|2> yeah..
[00:47:17] <XXCoder> yeah
[00:47:29] <XXCoder> heh it was pretty dizzing video
[00:47:46] <pink_vampire|2> one sec
[00:47:51] <pink_vampire|2> i drilled it
[00:49:56] <pink_vampire|2> XXCoder:
[00:50:03] <XXCoder> yeah?
[00:50:16] <pink_vampire|2> now it's monted
[00:54:07] <pink_vampire|2> XXCoder:
[00:54:16] <pink_vampire|2> how is the video now?
[00:54:34] <XXCoder> bit better though your webcam cant do well when you move it around
[01:00:47] <pink_vampire|2> now it is better angel?
[01:01:00] <XXCoder> yea. though whats with marks on cut surface
[01:01:31] <pink_vampire|2> look now
[01:01:33] <pink_vampire|2> XXCoder:
[01:01:40] <XXCoder> am
[01:02:55] <pink_vampire|2> almost mirror
[01:03:05] <XXCoder> nicer than it was thats for sure
[01:03:22] <pink_vampire|2> yeah
[01:03:41] <pink_vampire|2> i just need it to get in the vise
[01:04:16] <pink_vampire|2> this is what i make
[01:04:41] <pink_vampire|2> you saw?
[01:04:46] <XXCoder> yeah
[01:04:50] <XXCoder> I remember those lol
[01:04:55] <XXCoder> it was... while ago
[01:05:02] <pink_vampire|2> yeah...
[01:05:17] <pink_vampire|2> now i made them from aluminum.
[01:05:37] <XXCoder> first time you come in you was asking advice on making steel version of those
[01:05:44] <pink_vampire|2> faster to make
[01:06:08] <pink_vampire|2> and i need them for lite stuff
[01:06:16] <pink_vampire|2> cable holders ..
[01:06:22] <pink_vampire|2> markers.. etc..
[01:06:35] <XXCoder> 80/20 framing for killer robot...
[01:06:38] <XXCoder> ;)
[01:06:45] <pink_vampire|2> the heavy stuff using the steel
[01:06:53] <pink_vampire|2> hehe
[01:07:01] <XXCoder> hmm makes sense killer robots need to be steel ;)
[01:09:01] <pink_vampire|2> now i'm working on mont it
[01:09:05] <pink_vampire|2> mount*
[01:15:05] <pink_vampire|2> XXCoder: look now
[01:15:13] <XXCoder> yeah nice provw
[01:15:15] <XXCoder> probe
[01:15:58] <pink_vampire|2> self setup
[01:16:32] <XXCoder> nice
[01:16:48] <XXCoder> sadly work we dont use probes lol
[01:17:00] <XXCoder> cell i run has one as tool 999
[01:17:11] <XXCoder> but it is not used at all
[01:17:16] <pink_vampire|2> it is soooo simple
[01:17:38] <pink_vampire|2> brb
[01:17:41] <pink_vampire|2> one sec
[01:17:42] <XXCoder> I want to make one evenually
[01:17:52] <pink_vampire|2> one sec
[01:21:59] <pink_vampire|2> XXCoder:
[01:22:10] <XXCoder> looking
[01:22:12] <XXCoder> still off
[01:22:27] <pink_vampire|2> i know
[01:22:47] <pink_vampire|2> actually you can print a probe
[01:23:03] <XXCoder> yeah thats in plans, though i have to change design because height is so short
[01:24:50] <pink_vampire|2> what is your x axis?
[01:25:15] <pink_vampire|2> z*
[01:25:19] <XXCoder> 300mm x 400mm x 60mm basically
[01:25:38] <XXCoder> z is around 2.5 inch roughly
[01:26:12] <pink_vampire|2> mount the probe next to the spindle on short h rail
[01:33:40] <pink_vampire|2> i load the 1/4" end mill
[01:36:53] <XXCoder> cool
[01:37:18] <pink_vampire|2> hope in few minutes i will start making chips
[01:42:26] <pink_vampire|2> live
[01:42:28] <pink_vampire|2> XXCoder:
[01:42:34] <pink_vampire|2> http://ustre.am/1qGHt
[01:42:35] <XXCoder> looking
[01:47:19] <XXCoder> nice
[01:47:53] <pink_vampire|2> how the chips look?
[01:48:07] <XXCoder> around typical
[01:48:21] <XXCoder> I cant tell color as camera sucks on that lol
[01:48:57] <XXCoder> was that oil?
[01:49:17] <pink_vampire|2> duster
[01:49:31] <XXCoder> oh looked like it sprayed tiny amount of liquid
[01:51:45] <pink_vampire|2> i'm using it as a cryogenic coolant
[01:51:57] <XXCoder> oh yeah
[01:52:00] <XXCoder> pressured air
[01:52:04] <XXCoder> aka canned air
[01:52:43] <XXCoder> finish pass?
[01:52:49] <pink_vampire|2> up side down
[01:53:12] <XXCoder> no what i mean is final cut for good finish
[01:53:21] <XXCoder> or lower down
[01:53:24] <XXCoder> *oh
[01:56:56] <pink_vampire|2> i know i need better solution
[01:57:23] <XXCoder> theres few god solutions
[01:57:25] <XXCoder> good
[01:57:40] <XXCoder> like tank of liquid and air pressure, makes very small but fine mist
[01:58:19] <XXCoder> http://www.fogbuster.com/images/re-sized%20pictures/final%20gallon%20dual%20500.jpg
[01:58:26] <XXCoder> used one of those before. prety decent
[02:01:43] <pink_vampire|2> i cant use it inside the home
[02:02:08] <XXCoder> it can be very low flow. i was running cnc router (huge one)
[02:02:14] <XXCoder> and part was just wet when done
[02:02:41] <XXCoder> it used maybe 1/4 cup of blue liquid for quite large part
[02:03:50] <XXCoder> or just use wd40 with its wonderous smell (no idea what it smells like) thinly coated
[02:06:32] <XXCoder> heh
[02:06:39] <XXCoder> definitely interesting shape
[02:06:51] <XXCoder> I thought of stupid joke related to that but whatever
[02:15:46] <XXCoder> last pass?
[02:20:19] <pink_vampire|2> yeah
[02:20:24] <XXCoder> cool
[02:20:25] <pink_vampire|2> almost done
[02:23:38] <pink_vampire|2> done
[02:23:43] <XXCoder> nicely done
[02:23:51] <XXCoder> whatever that thing is ehh
[02:25:05] <pink_vampire|2> 8 inserts
[02:25:16] <XXCoder> ahh cut apart later eh
[02:25:19] <XXCoder> then face off
[02:26:52] <pink_vampire|2> almot
[02:27:09] <pink_vampire|2> now i'm changing to 1/8" end mill
[02:27:45] <CaptHindsight> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119094/
[02:28:35] <XXCoder> heh
[02:31:19] <Deejay> moin
[02:34:59] <pink_vampire|2> now for the small one
[02:35:15] <pink_vampire|2> 1h running :(
[02:35:24] <XXCoder> ow
[02:36:59] <XXCoder> have tool been reliefed back above the flutes?
[02:37:05] <XXCoder> so it dont get pushed by part
[02:37:40] <archivist> at last what we already knew about chines sellers "we source from SainSmart's manufactory directly before testing and packing"
[02:37:53] <XXCoder> stainsmart ;)
[02:38:03] <archivist> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Boost-DC-DC-Converter-12V-60V-to-12V-80V-600W-10A-Power-Supply-Step-Up-Module-/351429676553
[02:38:44] <archivist> it is the "before testing" that is the funny part
[02:39:09] <XXCoder> fell off the assembly line heh
[02:39:21] <sync> XXCoder: they usually don't
[02:39:49] <XXCoder> only few jobs at work need that
[02:40:08] <XXCoder> tool guy usually use grinder to make it less diameter than flutes
[02:40:29] <XXCoder> https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61esny-bmoL._SL1000_.jpg
[02:40:34] <XXCoder> what kind of connector is that
[02:43:21] <Deejay> faston?
[02:43:46] <XXCoder> apparently spade
[02:52:10] <archivist> it started out being called a lucar connector over here
[02:52:25] <XXCoder> what about other type
[02:52:27] <XXCoder> the u type
[03:01:04] <archivist> also seems to have had another name S.M.M.T standard snap connector society of motor manufacturers and traders
[03:01:20] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=lucar
[03:09:13] <XXCoder> pink_vampire|2: so whats your plan with those t nuts'
[03:20:43] <pink_vampire|2> did you saw it!
[03:24:22] <XXCoder> no was at restroom
[03:24:28] <XXCoder> broke tool?
[03:25:47] <XXCoder> hmm tool looks finbe
[03:26:24] <pink_vampire|2> no
[03:26:38] <pink_vampire|2> the end mill cut the straw
[03:26:40] <XXCoder> what happened?
[03:26:47] <XXCoder> oh lol
[03:27:10] <XXCoder> slowly getting there :)
[03:27:29] <XXCoder> im now designing better 90 degree support for my printer
[03:27:34] <XXCoder> it has way too much flex
[03:28:13] <pink_vampire|2> cool
[03:37:42] <XXCoder> man your program makes strange order of cutting
[03:38:06] <pink_vampire|2> i know
[03:38:13] <pink_vampire|2> the shortest timer
[03:38:17] <pink_vampire|2> time
[03:43:18] <XXCoder> getting close to done
[03:43:45] <pink_vampire|2> yes
[03:44:08] <pink_vampire|2> 58500 lines
[03:44:25] <pink_vampire|2> now it's on line 51700
[03:44:26] <XXCoder> largest one I ever seen was over million lines
[03:44:50] <XXCoder> it scrolls very very fast. tons of tiny g1 commands
[03:44:59] <XXCoder> no idea why it uses that
[03:46:45] <pink_vampire|2> the close the tolerance the longer the gcode
[03:46:50] <archivist> because cam programs are stupid
[03:47:18] <XXCoder> usually programs we use is fine, but this one well it was full of strange shapes
[03:47:35] <XXCoder> which have to be roughed, cut to shape, finished, and finished again to very close spec
[03:48:00] <archivist> they dont know how to use arcs and circles
[03:48:17] <XXCoder> it does use some g2 and g3 but most cant use that
[03:54:10] <pink_vampire|2> in few secs it's done
[03:54:11] <pink_vampire|2> XXCoder:
[03:54:16] <XXCoder> yep
[03:55:10] <XXCoder> yay heh
[03:55:40] <pink_vampire|2> now to trace each one to the final size
[03:59:35] <pink_vampire|2> 2450 lines start now
[03:59:38] <pink_vampire|2> XXCoder:
[03:59:46] <XXCoder> cool
[04:00:52] <XXCoder> ah thats finish cut
[04:06:48] <XXCoder> finish cut parts seem to have strange dents? but then video is low quality
[04:08:15] <pink_vampire|2> true
[04:08:28] <pink_vampire|2> it is happen when is cut a chip
[04:08:57] <XXCoder> so chip flies back and gets cut again
[04:09:19] <pink_vampire|2> and i see the video now
[04:10:07] <pink_vampire|2> it is just the video quality
[04:10:20] <XXCoder> yeah guessed it was that
[04:10:25] <pink_vampire|2> you can't see them
[04:10:52] <XXCoder> contrast is all over map that video
[04:12:16] <pink_vampire|2> 2 more to go
[04:14:04] <pink_vampire|2> last one!!
[04:16:27] <XXCoder> you using rechargable canned air?
[04:16:37] <pink_vampire|2> no
[04:16:44] <XXCoder> yay done heh
[04:16:46] <pink_vampire|2> just pay for them..
[04:17:18] <pink_vampire|2> you saw the cans?
[04:17:23] <pink_vampire|2> 3 ones!
[04:17:51] <XXCoder> yeah
[04:18:53] <pink_vampire|2> the part is done
[04:19:07] <XXCoder> indeed
[04:19:41] <pink_vampire|2> you saw the marks
[04:20:03] <XXCoder> yeah
[04:20:15] <pink_vampire|2> it's because the sank of the end mill is the same diameter as the cutting part..
[04:20:44] <pink_vampire|2> so if a chip go in.. it make beautiful decoration
[04:20:53] <XXCoder> yeah thats why work they sometimes relive back the part that would touch part
[04:21:16] <XXCoder> they use special equipment dunno what its called, its kind of grinder lathe
[04:21:38] <pink_vampire|2> i'm using dremel
[04:21:53] <XXCoder> cool
[04:22:03] <pink_vampire|2> to remove a bit of material from the shank
[04:23:11] <pink_vampire|2> XXCoder: http://i.imgur.com/BplhBF3.png
[04:23:44] <XXCoder> used dermel to cut that?
[04:24:08] <pink_vampire|2> yes
[04:24:21] <pink_vampire|2> fiber disk
[04:24:27] <XXCoder> cool
[04:24:41] <pink_vampire|2> yeah
[04:25:04] <pink_vampire|2> now to the main turbine blade.
[04:33:55] <XXCoder> aw no video heh
[04:34:04] <XXCoder> or was it at some other machine
[04:34:19] <pink_vampire|2> joak
[04:54:06] <XXCoder> joak?
[04:54:32] <pink_vampire|2> joke
[04:54:41] <XXCoder> ahh ok lol
[05:09:01] <XXCoder> designing 90 degree support for 2020 frame
[05:09:13] <XXCoder> to make really sure it is very close to 90 degrees.
[05:09:46] <pink_vampire|2> image?
[05:09:58] <XXCoder> not yet done
[05:11:00] <pink_vampire|2> :(
[05:11:32] <pink_vampire|2> in what step are yyou
[05:12:19] <XXCoder> im using freecad to design it npow
[05:12:25] <XXCoder> doubt can print it today
[05:17:10] <pink_vampire|2> nice.
[05:17:31] <pink_vampire|2> i go to get some sleep
[05:17:37] <XXCoder> soon for me too heh
[05:17:45] <pink_vampire|2> :)
[05:18:23] <archivist> use metal for proper webs to hold angles
[05:18:41] <XXCoder> dont need that much rigidity
[05:19:21] <archivist> I doubtl plastic will be an accurate 90
[05:19:41] <XXCoder> it'll be 3d printed
[05:20:44] <archivist> yes exactly!
[05:47:35] <jthornton> morning
[05:55:33] <Deejay> yo
[05:57:50] <XXCoder> 3 hours print. okay heh will do it across 2 days to make 2
[05:58:23] <archivist> cheaper better to machine some ally
[05:58:44] <XXCoder> its pretty large
[05:58:47] <XXCoder> 150mm across
[06:00:23] <XXCoder> I dont have anything to make it with besides 3d printer
[06:38:46] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Vf-MoCas1M
[06:38:48] <XXCoder> that is cool!
[06:39:50] <archivist> file hacksaw drill, but not in that order
[06:41:52] <XXCoder> I love how autocaptions go yeah yeah yeah yeah in noisy video section
[06:54:49] <SpeedEvil> That is brilliant
[06:55:35] <XXCoder> speed yeah
[06:55:46] <XXCoder> its perfect for leather shop too actually
[06:55:55] <XXCoder> tool that cant cut hands but cuts leather? hell
[06:55:58] <XXCoder> thats awesome.
[06:56:52] <SpeedEvil> A sliding table might make it more useful for flexy materials
[06:59:11] <sync> it's just a regular nibbler
[06:59:17] <XXCoder> it is
[06:59:29] <XXCoder> its just nice surrounds and setup to use it
[06:59:46] <SpeedEvil> I suspect it'd work just fine for thin sheetmetal too
[06:59:47] <XXCoder> its not like he hid that fact either
[07:00:48] <sync> that is what they are for SpeedEvil
[07:00:58] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[07:01:05] <SpeedEvil> but not usually in that form factor
[07:01:37] <SpeedEvil> I initially thought it was a router bit type thing, with a bearing on top
[07:01:38] <XXCoder> SpeedEvil: bet its much easier to cut sheets that way than normal hand way
[07:01:48] <SpeedEvil> but that's perhaps not as tame
[07:02:08] <XXCoder> cuts sheet metal, kid safe. strange combation.
[07:02:22] <SpeedEvil> Well, they can cut themselves on teh sheet
[07:02:24] <SpeedEvil> but yeah
[07:02:38] <XXCoder> well more like "more or less safe" :)
[07:02:46] <SpeedEvil> Certainly safer than a hacksaw
[07:10:17] <XXCoder> indeed.
[07:20:08] <jthornton> what factors are important for print quality?
[07:24:08] <XXCoder> bed levelness, right heat temeprate for hotend and bed
[07:24:27] <XXCoder> right print speed to avoid ringing and few other issues
[07:24:40] <XXCoder> design squareness to prevent sloping and stuff
[07:24:46] <jthornton> what print speed do you need
[07:24:50] <XXCoder> decent filiment
[07:24:55] <XXCoder> dunno that depends on machine
[07:25:09] <XXCoder> mine its 30 mm/s for print usually
[07:25:13] <XXCoder> other factors too
[07:28:07] <SpeedEvil> design of part
[07:28:17] <XXCoder> indeed
[07:28:37] <SpeedEvil> You can make quite adequate parts with 'crap' materials if you understand the limits
[07:29:08] <archivist> heh "limits"
[07:29:13] <XXCoder> you can also polish shit into shiny ball but honestly better materials mean less issues
[07:29:23] <SpeedEvil> XXCoder: to a degree, yes.
[07:30:00] <XXCoder> yeah theres no filiment so good that all I need to do is melt it and it forms into ;ess than .001mm error detailed object :)
[07:30:01] <SpeedEvil> At some point you hit the 'yes it's suboptimal, but the printer isn't doing anything for the next couple of hours, and it'll work fine while I do something else'
[07:30:20] <SpeedEvil> even if it may be 10* bigger than a nice metal one
[08:26:56] <Polymorphism> should have gone 6040 xD
[08:55:16] <SpeedEvil> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1753199
[09:04:07] <Deejay> evil sound
[10:01:49] <MacGalempsy> :) what a dreary morning
[10:20:03] <MacGalempsy> sweet. got an edm manual on the way... $97 though 1/6 of the machine cost
[10:28:31] <miss0r> I'm hoping you guys can help me out here. I might have made a stupid design: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B51cA8Udo5i7dU5KMkhiMWk3Y0E
[10:28:33] <miss0r> its a motor control with reverse and hold function. BUT theres also a 'momentary' button for each direction. The way I designed this to work, is that the button for momentary run, is equipped with a NC and a no contact. where the NO drives the relay and the NC takes out the 'hold' function. problem is, it is not working 100% of the time. as, the relay is sometimes too slow to break contact, and will end up holding itself. Do you
[10:28:59] <miss0r> I guess what I need is for the NC contact to be a little more persistent or something :)
[10:29:46] <miss0r> short of something sticky in there I think i'm drawing a blank
[10:30:23] <Erant_> Eh
[10:30:34] <Erant> Stick a cap in there?
[10:30:54] <miss0r> i'm all ears
[10:31:17] <miss0r> where exactly would you put said cap?
[10:31:58] <miss0r> Are you thinking of grounding one site of the NC contact with a cap?
[10:35:01] <CaptHindsight> are they old open relays?
[10:35:19] <miss0r> 'old'? :)
[10:35:38] <miss0r> I bought them 2 weeks ago. they are not solid state or anything if that is what you mean.
[10:35:49] <CaptHindsight> he's thing to use a cap between the output of that relay and ground
[10:35:58] <CaptHindsight> thing/thinking
[10:37:36] <miss0r> What he said got me thinking something like this: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B51cA8Udo5i7SXlzVVhTYWprWTg
[10:38:58] <miss0r> this is my own schematics, and I have no idea where 'output of this relay' referes to :)
[10:42:12] <Erant> miss0r: Basically you want the NC side to 'stick' a little, right?
[10:42:37] <miss0r> yeah, give the contactor some time to release its contacts
[10:43:13] <SpeedEvil> miss0r: If you want teh relay to deactivate faster, you may also consider running it at its minimum coil volts
[10:43:31] <miss0r> SpeedEvil: already doing that :)
[10:43:39] <MacGalempsy_> all that schematic stuff looks interesting...
[10:43:45] <SpeedEvil> And put a smallish value of resistor across the coil
[10:43:57] <SpeedEvil> wait - no
[10:44:15] <SpeedEvil> ignore last - that makes the current decay slower. I need coffee
[10:44:52] <miss0r> erant: What I want is for the NC contact to "stay open" longer
[10:45:38] <miss0r> at the moment its like a game of roulette, if the relay holds itself or not. I realy don't want that :)
[10:46:44] <miss0r> Erant: so the last link I sent in here, with a 'fix' would it work, you think?
[10:47:02] <jdh_> feed it to classic ladder with a timer
[10:47:17] <CaptHindsight> lol
[10:48:53] <CaptHindsight> miss0r: the NC contact is controlled by a coil and you want that coil to hold the contact open longer
[10:50:01] <miss0r> CaptHindsight: The NC contact is a momentary push button, which also has a no contact on it. The no drives the coil of the relay, while the nc "takes out" the no of the relay, that would normally hold itself running
[10:50:59] <SpeedEvil> miss0r: To clarify. If you could shif the voltage to the coil - would delaying it 0.1s do what you want?
[10:51:12] <SpeedEvil> Or do you want to move it .1s earlier - or do something more complex
[10:52:28] <miss0r> erh, not sure I understand what you mean :) If you look at the schematic I uploaded; I want to keep the NC open for 0.1s longer - that would be fine
[10:53:00] <miss0r> or atleast the electrical equivalent of that
[10:53:13] <SpeedEvil> If you add an appropriate capacitor across the relay, and a resistor in series, then it will react 0.1s later.
[10:53:33] <SpeedEvil> Sorry - I'm not able to understand the diagram ATM - too tired
[10:53:58] <miss0r> that is true. My problem is realy that, the relay is too slow shutting down. delaying its start would do me no good
[10:55:27] <miss0r> I knew it, I should've stuck a PLC in there from the start. That would have taken care of all this stupid relay 'programming'. but now I am stuck with a box too small to hold it. I will have to figure out how to do this :)
[10:55:32] <SpeedEvil> You can buy faster relays - to a degree
[10:56:18] <miss0r> Yeah. I am just hoping I can delay this circuit somewhere with a cap. like I did in the last link I posted - tired or no, will you try to look at it, and tell me how it will react with the addition I made with a pen?
[10:56:50] <SpeedEvil> sorry - not getting it - ping me in a couple of hours if not solved
[10:57:17] <miss0r> I'll do that :) I have to get dinner started, or the misses will have my head. I will be back in the shop later.
[10:57:32] * miss0r is afk
[11:01:41] <Erant> I need a minute to think about what the schematic means. But basically you've turned a relay into a flipflop, and you're trying to add a reset. Ish.
[11:06:06] <CaptHindsight> yup
[11:21:36] <MacGalempsy> anyone have experience fixing a flexible lamp that has had the rubber removed from the flexshaft?
[11:21:42] <MacGalempsy> I am curious if heatshring will work
[11:22:15] <jdh_> replace it with a time delay relay
[11:25:23] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZlh6UYVhc8 chocolate powder printer (SLM)
[12:16:08] <miss0r> Erant: I am not trying to add a reset :)
[12:16:41] <miss0r> I already have that. that is no problem. The issue is that using the same relays for reversing a motor, I have two seprate ways of driving thoes relays.
[12:17:46] <miss0r> One: push a button, and the motor will run in the desiered direction until reset/stop is pressed. Two: press a button and hold it down, and have the motor run in the desiered direction as long as you are holding down said button. The motor will stop when the button is released.
[12:18:18] <miss0r> or so it should work in theory. in a perfect world where a relay has 0ms delay in either direction, this would work fine
[12:18:19] <Erant> miss0r: What are the voltages involved?
[12:18:38] <miss0r> its all 24vdc.
[12:18:49] <miss0r> well, the relays control 3phase 400v
[12:19:02] <Erant> Sure, but the relay control voltage is 24VDC.
[12:19:06] <miss0r> indeed
[12:21:16] <IchGucksLive> hi
[12:22:11] <Erant> miss0r: So if I understand the exact problem correctly, it's that your... 'temporary' start sort of acts like the hold in some situations.
[12:22:31] <miss0r> exactly
[12:24:23] <Erant> You have to help me a little with the diagram.
[12:24:30] <miss0r> sure
[12:24:30] <Erant> What's S5.2, S5.4 and K2.4?
[12:24:40] <Erant> And K2.5
[12:24:50] <miss0r> S are switches. K are relays
[12:25:29] <Erant> Alright. S5.1 and S5.2 create the 'hold' function?
[12:25:32] <Erant> (start and stop)
[12:25:33] <miss0r> so; S5.2 is the start button for one direction - intented to keep the motor running, until S5.1 (stop) is pressed
[12:25:45] <miss0r> yep
[12:26:07] <miss0r> S5.4 is the momentary run button. it consists of a NO and a NC
[12:26:45] <miss0r> K2.4 is the relay for one direction of the motor. (other than 3x no contacts for the 3phase voltage, is has 1x NO and 1x NC)
[12:26:59] <Erant> All the switches are momentary push buttons?
[12:27:24] <miss0r> yes. well, unless S5.6, which is not realy in question
[12:27:31] <Erant> Sure.
[12:27:59] <miss0r> all the HID buttons have the [-- symbol on them
[12:28:08] <miss0r> all the contacts without are controlled by relays
[12:29:56] <miss0r> i'm hoping for a simpler solution than making a 555 pulse extender. The mentioning of a cap sorta' sounds good :)
[12:30:59] <Erant> Gah. Stupid laptop. I plugged you into a charger, why you still shut down...
[12:32:08] <miss0r> its like when punch out'a work, and the boss tries to catch you at the door - you might act like you haven't heard him and still leave... same thing ;)
[12:32:46] <Erant> I understand your problem, the way this schematic is set up isn't the way I'm used to :P
[12:32:56] <Erant> Where's GND/0v?
[12:33:20] <miss0r> in the bottom... perhaps out'a the picture...
[12:33:37] <Erant> Why is it going through K6.2 and K6.4?
[12:34:15] <miss0r> thoes are relays controlled by torque and end stops for the moving part
[12:34:25] <Erant> Ah. Got it.
[12:34:35] <miss0r> and S5.7 and S5.8 are overrides
[12:34:39] <Erant> k
[12:35:05] <miss0r> give me 2 mins, i'll upload a PDF of the complete thing
[12:36:19] <Erant> That might help. If I'm looking at it correctly... If you press S5.2, you're creating a dead short between +24VDC and GND.
[12:38:00] <miss0r> theres the K2.4 relay coil in between
[12:39:00] <Erant> Ah, that's what that is.
[12:39:15] <Erant> What's the convention you're using here btw? Just curious.
[12:39:44] <miss0r> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B51cA8Udo5i7RGRMTkFvcHR6c1U
[12:39:50] <miss0r> cenvention?
[12:39:56] <miss0r> convention*
[12:40:38] <miss0r> patent not pending(r) :)
[12:44:02] <Erant> Like, the symbols.
[12:44:46] <Erant> I'm used to something like this: https://cdn.sparkfun.com/assets/d/8/b/2/4/51ccac08ce395fac6d000001.png
[12:47:03] <miss0r> yeah. This is DS (Danish standard)
[12:49:05] <IchGucksLive> folks i got a question the cheep vfd used to have only 34 parameters insted of Huanyang orig. 180
[12:49:14] <IchGucksLive> is there a issue ion that
[12:49:23] <miss0r> also: S5.7 and S5.8 are HID switches, I just forgot to add the symbol
[12:49:28] <IchGucksLive> it is half the priviung
[12:49:35] <IchGucksLive> price
[12:49:44] <Erant> miss0r: k, Gimme a few minutes to think and look.
[12:50:04] <miss0r> alright, adress my nic, so the PC makes a noise then ;)
[12:50:12] <Erant> (While also trying to do two other things, so euh, maybe more than a few minutes :P)
[12:53:09] <IchGucksLive> does someone have any of this Huanyang clone vfd
[12:58:36] <Erant> miss0r: k, so your problem's a little tricky.
[12:59:06] <IchGucksLive> k found one 140euros orig in germany will take that
[12:59:47] <Erant> miss0r: But I think there might be an easy fix. No caps, just wires.
[13:00:07] <miss0r> listening :)
[13:00:12] <Erant> miss0r: So, your problem is that the coil for K2.4 has a whole bunch of residual magnetism.
[13:00:42] <miss0r> 'whole bunch' might be a scretch. but it is a few ms letting go :)
[13:00:42] <Erant> Which keeps the K2.4 engaged for probably... I'd say 10-20ms
[13:00:49] <miss0r> perbally, yeah
[13:01:09] <Erant> In my world, 10-20ms might as well be eternity ;)
[13:01:32] <miss0r> indeed :)
[13:01:36] <Erant> So.
[13:02:05] <Erant> Could you move the K2.4 coil up above the K6.2 and K6.4?
[13:02:36] <miss0r> it would suck, but I could :)
[13:02:44] <Erant> It shouldn't _really_ matter, might be a bit slower to shut off.
[13:03:10] <Erant> And then you have S5.4 just bypass the coil entirely.
[13:03:18] <Erant> Which means K2.4 will never energize.
[13:04:23] <miss0r> that would defeat the purpose of S5.4 all together, as I want it to energize the coil, but have it shut off when I let it go
[13:05:11] <miss0r> The build is at this stage at the moment: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B51cA8Udo5i7d0tWNXljc3dGTTQ
[13:05:21] <Erant> Wait. K2.4 does more than what's on this page?
[13:05:48] <miss0r> yeah, it handles the 3-phase on page 2
[13:05:56] <MacGalempsy> nice wiring
[13:05:57] <Erant> Ah. I can't seem to search the PDF
[13:05:59] <Erant> So.
[13:06:24] <Erant> Ok, lemme think for a second.
[13:06:28] <IchGucksLive> im off gn8
[13:08:09] <Erant> miss0r: One hacky thing you could try is to put a resistor across the K2.4 coil, but that's meh.
[13:08:25] <Erant> It'd have to be a big one, and it'll get warm.
[13:08:40] <miss0r> yeah, that doesn't sound fun... :-/
[13:08:55] <Erant> (It would help de-energize the coil much quicker)
[13:09:27] <miss0r> what I somehow need - the way I see it - is a way for the NC function on S5.4 to stay open for a few ms more
[13:09:58] <Erant> Yeah, that's what you need. Unfortunately like I said, a few ms is a lot.
[13:10:48] <miss0r> true. But isn't this doable with a cap somehow? :) like grounding the 'output' side of S5.4 NC through a cap?
[13:11:16] <miss0r> Something like this: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B51cA8Udo5i7SXlzVVhTYWprWTg
[13:12:18] <Erant> I'm thinking. I'm not convinced yet.
[13:12:32] <Erant> Eh, no, that won't help
[13:13:00] <Erant> What you're trying to do is absorb the electrons that are flowing through the K2.4 'leg'
[13:13:29] <miss0r> yeah, but only for the shortest of time, while it is shutting off again
[13:13:39] <Erant> But it's attached to the same wire as S5.4
[13:13:50] <Erant> So you already charged the cap up by pressing S5.4
[13:13:51] <miss0r> I added a rectifier in there
[13:13:59] <Erant> Oh, euh, sec
[13:15:35] <miss0r> I just did a test setup with this. added a 300uf cap, and a 1k resistor. It had the oposite effect :) now it never works the way it should
[13:15:36] <Erant> Yeah, it might. You may have to add another rectifier such that the cap can't discharge into the coil.
[13:15:54] <Erant> Yeah, because the cap is discharging into the coil
[13:16:19] <miss0r> huhmm... i'm just thinking, it should never realy be charged...
[13:16:55] <Erant> Right before the cap/resistor pair, put a rectifier into the pair. That way the cap can charge, but it'll only discharge through the resistor
[13:17:35] <miss0r> can you manage a doodle of what you are saying to ward off confusion?
[13:17:43] <Erant> Sure, sec.
[13:19:59] <Erant> http://pastebin.com/FTgmPBd0
[13:20:02] <Erant> Something like that?
[13:20:49] <miss0r> sure... hang on. i'll give it a quick test. (I just discovered I am down to two rectifiers) *sigh*
[13:24:44] <miss0r> adding your rectifier made it 'better' as in, i'm not back to the result before I started adding stuff :)
[13:24:58] <miss0r> not=now*
[13:25:11] <Erant> But it didn't fix the overall problem.
[13:25:36] <miss0r> sadly no
[13:25:49] <Erant> 300uF, right?
[13:26:50] <miss0r> yeah
[13:26:56] <Erant> I'll assume the relay starts engaging at like... 9-12VDC.
[13:27:55] <miss0r> excellent question. I haven't tested that
[13:28:37] <Erant> miss0r: Actually, I wonder what would happen if you just put a resistor in series with K2.4/S5.4(NC)
[13:29:21] <miss0r> any specific size? hehe... it pulls 9.6VA, so i'll need to bundle a few of my 0.25watt units
[13:30:03] <Erant> miss0r: Eh, let me run the math on your cap first.
[13:30:19] <Erant> For one, you'll probably want to put a resistor in series with the cap.
[13:30:44] <miss0r> i'm thinking that will take its electron eating ability somewhat away
[13:32:17] <Erant> The 300uF cap charges to almost 24V in under .1ms
[13:32:23] <Erant> With a .1ohm resistance.
[13:32:25] <Erant> So
[13:32:48] <Erant> Yeah, this is going to get a little complicated with just analogs.
[13:33:07] <miss0r> yeah well, Either I get bigger caps or I loose this game - if I add a resistor in front of the caps, the coil will also get some voltage :)
[13:34:45] <Erant> miss0r: Right, so you have to put some resistance near that diode between S5.4(NO) and S5.4(NC)
[13:34:55] <Erant> Basically creating a voltage divider.
[13:35:39] <Erant> What I would do is, instead of trying this out in the real world...
[13:35:42] <miss0r> damn. This is realy getting out'a hand :)
[13:35:44] <Erant> Sec, let me pull it up for you.
[13:35:50] <Erant> Yeah, I hate analogs.
[13:35:58] <dioz> as a outsider looking in i think americans are full on retards
[13:36:09] <dioz> wall street, wells fargo, hillary clinton and the e-mail scandal
[13:36:10] <Erant> miss0r: https://www.circuitlab.com
[13:36:22] <dioz> i bet all americans fuck their own sisters, eat fast food and talk real slow
[13:36:32] <dioz> why are yanks SO FUCKING STUPID?
[13:36:36] <miss0r> I should've just stuck a PLC in there right off the bat. I would have been done by now... but nooo...
[13:36:39] <dioz> it's amazing to me it really is
[13:36:47] <Erant> dioz: For a second there I thought you were talking about the relay situation.
[13:36:54] <dioz> no no
[13:36:58] <dioz> just ranting
[13:37:06] <miss0r> yeah me too... it turns out he is just blowing off steam :)
[13:37:53] <MacGalempsy_> looking out towards the world, there are a lot of retards, its just America gets the blunt of it
[13:38:10] <Erant> dioz: The issue is complicated, and very nuanced. I'm a European living in the US (Sort of, anyway, California's kinda sorta different).
[13:38:24] <Erant> So, not American. Plus, I don't have a sister, so.
[13:38:44] <dioz> lol
[13:38:58] <Erant> miss0r: So circuitlab allows you to simulate some stuff.
[13:39:06] <dioz> i'm just amazed that people aren't more upset about the whole thing
[13:39:14] <dioz> as a outsider looking in i'm upset and it hardly affects me
[13:39:18] <Erant> And put taps on junctions, so you can see what the voltages are.
[13:39:45] <miss0r> Erant: I must admit having second thoughts about any analog solution.
[13:39:51] <miss0r> Why didn't I see this comming a mile away
[13:39:59] <Erant> dioz: As a general rule, no matter where you are, people are stupid. Individuals are smart, people are stupid.
[13:40:15] <Erant> miss0r: Eh, I've been there. Halfway in you go "Well shit.".
[13:40:40] <Erant> miss0r: The question is do you keep going with what you've got because you can see the light at the end of the tunnel? Or do you 'scrap' it and walk away.
[13:40:40] <miss0r> unfortunatly this is closer to 2/3rd of the way :'(
[13:40:55] <Erant> Right. There's actually a term for it, "sunk cost fallacy".
[13:41:06] <Erant> Anyway, give me a second to model an idea up in circuitlab
[13:41:06] <miss0r> I promised my friend hed have it in the morning. so i'm somewhat split here
[13:41:24] <Erant> Ah. And it's... 21:00.
[13:41:30] <Erant> Euh
[13:41:32] <Erant> 20:00
[13:41:52] <Erant> So no stores to go get PLCs or more resistors ;)
[13:42:04] <miss0r> do i cut my loses and rebuild it with a PLC in there (I have some serious space issues, as you saw) or do I keep pursuing this solution I am not sure will work...
[13:42:31] <miss0r> Strangely I have more PLCs laying around than I do resistors bigger than 1/4w
[13:43:06] <Erant> miss0r: Well, that's up to you, obviously. Is this the last issue you're facing?
[13:43:12] <Erant> Like, other than this feature, it works?
[13:43:45] <miss0r> yeah. other than that it works. Well, I still haven't tested it completely, but I'm confident it is working
[13:44:07] <miss0r> the rest of it doesn't smell like idiot
[13:46:34] <Erant> miss0r: I'm mocking something up in circuitlab real quick, might be able to see how retarded I am.
[13:46:47] <miss0r> ^^ i'm not judging
[14:05:27] <Erant> Yeah, no, the resistor in series won't work either. It just cuts the entire thing off.
[14:06:40] <Erant> In other words, ehm... Can you open the switch up and modify the contacts?
[14:06:50] <Erant> I realize that's a shitty shitty solution, but.
[14:11:10] <miss0r> hehe, I came to the same conclution.
[14:11:35] <miss0r> its not as much 'opending them up'.. because they are modular contacts, where you sorta' jack on aditional contact sets
[14:12:24] <miss0r> and I just added 0.5mm material under the NC contact, so it opens faster and is absolutly the last one to close... I've been doing the monkey test on it for a few mins now, and I can't get it to fail. well, it failed, when the padding fell off
[14:12:39] <miss0r> so, i'll give it a bit of glue, and I think its all good
[14:12:47] <miss0r> he'll have to live with that
[14:16:09] <JT-Shopp> break second over... back to making parts
[14:26:55] <miss0r> Erant: new issue :)
[14:26:59] <Erant> miss0r: Yeah, it's not a great way of doing it, but it'll work, as long as you don't hit the button too hard.
[14:27:02] <Erant> Ruh roh
[14:27:27] <miss0r> this worked on one of the two directions. K2.5 setup
[14:27:46] <miss0r> but for some reason I can't quite understand, it did not work on k2.4 setup
[14:27:57] <miss0r> perhaps something to do with the R5.1
[14:30:22] <miss0r> also, strangely - if I add a flyback rectifier on any of the relays, they take forever to deenergize
[14:31:00] <miss0r> At the moment I am trying to figure out how do add a PLC :)
[14:32:00] <miss0r> on the other hand that would mean rewiring the intire thing, and that would take way too long
[14:32:56] <miss0r> *freck* !
[14:38:16] <miss0r> Erant: i've got it. flawless fix. no more idiocrazy. I'm going to rewire it somewhat. Get rid of S5.4 and S5.5. instead I will use the 'constant drive' button for both. adding a turn switch, to decide what the button should do. That will fix it.
[14:38:56] <miss0r> With time to spare. I still have something like 10 hours before it has to be delievered. I might even have some time left over for sleep
[14:54:50] <jepler> dioz: you are not behaving appropriately for this channel. Please cool down, and take a break from #linuxcnc if necessary.
[14:55:44] <dioz> elaborate
[14:56:00] <jepler> dioz: it is not appropriate to call a whole class of people "retards", for instance.
[14:56:20] <dioz> even if the things they do are retarded?
[14:56:31] <roycroft> it's not appropriate to call anyone a "retard"
[14:56:36] <roycroft> much less a whole class of people
[14:56:41] <dioz> oh wow
[14:56:44] <dioz> leftie SJW's
[14:56:54] <roycroft> ad hominems, generally, are counterproductive
[14:57:00] <jepler> dioz: please review the freenode guidelines, particularly the heading "avoid emotive speech"
[14:57:22] <dioz> i'll get right on that, thank you for your patience. i am still learning
[14:57:51] <roycroft> perhaps you'd be able to focus more on your learning in #timeout :)
[14:58:13] <roycroft> hanging out in a grown-up channel could be too much of a distraction
[14:58:27] <dioz> no one asked you
[15:02:06] <dioz> not to be a pedant or anything but guidelines aren't necessarily definitive rules
[15:02:41] <dioz> and these guidelines aren't enforced through the entirety of the network. they are suggestions for interactions within the network but aren't requirements
[15:02:47] <jdh> how about "don't be a dick"?
[15:02:50] <cradek> dioz: it's true, and you can usually get by just using your best judgment about what's productive for the channel and what's just stirring up trouble or noise. please try to do that.
[15:02:54] <dioz> that is subjective
[15:02:57] <dioz> much like morality
[15:03:15] <jepler> Perhaps instead of this conversation, you'd like to talk about #linuxcnc instead?
[15:03:31] <dioz> only reason i'm here is cause i'm looking for someone who's keen with welding
[15:03:37] <dioz> specifically tig welding
[15:04:05] <FinboySlick> dioz: A lot of the people who could help you with that are dumb americans though.
[15:04:18] <cradek> FinboySlick: (not helping)
[15:04:29] <cradek> let's all be generous with second chances and try not to troll each other
[15:04:57] <roycroft> oh, you're no fun any more
[15:04:57] <dioz> you can ban me if you want
[15:05:03] <cradek> yes we know
[15:05:16] <cradek> we'd prefer not to
[15:05:23] <roycroft> banning is pretty lame, and imo should only be used when absolutely necessary
[15:06:24] <cradek> we'd rather have everyone welcome here
[15:06:40] <dioz> even that one dude who told me you'd die if you inhaled zinc fumes?
[15:06:41] <d42> what an unreasonably reasonable attitude :v
[15:07:28] * roycroft would guess that was a reaction to a "zinc fumes are not harmful" claim or something similar
[15:07:47] <roycroft> hyperbole often begets hyperbole
[15:07:52] <jepler> huh these symptoms don't sound too good https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_fume_fever
[15:08:18] <dioz> i asked if it's possible to weld galv iron sheet metal and was informed by more than one of the individuals in this channel the result of inhaling the zinc fumes is death
[15:08:50] <roycroft> i find that implausible
[15:08:51] <cradek> I don't understand why this is a touchy subject. Surely the more fumes you inhale the sicker you'd be.
[15:09:19] <roycroft> i could see multiple people here saying that inhaling zinc fumes is harmful to one's health
[15:09:27] <dioz> completely possible. but the general question wasn't about the effects of inhaling zinc fumes it was about the possibility of welding mild steel
[15:09:27] <roycroft> but a claim of certain death, not so much
[15:09:52] <dioz> i mean i've been trolled as much in this channel as i've trolled
[15:10:00] <dioz> so i'm okay with being banned
[15:10:08] <Erant> miss0r: That works. :)
[15:10:09] <cradek> if you don't care about that warning, it's fine to disregard it and move on
[15:10:23] <roycroft> keep in mind that we don't know you
[15:10:30] <roycroft> and have no concept of your level of experience
[15:10:36] <cradek> it's not necessary to have a fight about it, and especially not necessary to pick that fight over and over
[15:10:46] <cradek> so let's move on
[15:10:50] <roycroft> keep in mind also that a lot of people do weld galvanized metal and become ill because they don't know any better
[15:10:56] <dioz> cradek: what do you think of this welder
[15:10:58] <dioz> http://www.everlastwelders.ca/tigwelders/powertig-185-dv.php
[15:11:06] <dioz> it isn't a blue or a red but i'm not a professional, full time welder
[15:11:32] <cradek> sorry, no idea, I'm not a welder other than very occasional stick
[15:11:45] <dioz> you know anything about plasma cutters?
[15:11:50] <roycroft> instaed of raising a big stink perhaps you could have been thankful that folks were concerned for your health
[15:11:53] <cradek> nope
[15:12:03] <dioz> hmm. how about metal lathes?
[15:12:14] * djdelorie assumes everything I breathe besides air is eventually toxic...
[15:12:17] <cradek> yes I know a lot about lathe work, especially cnc
[15:12:29] <roycroft> air is toxic too!
[15:12:34] <roycroft> it's all full of nitrogen!
[15:12:36] <djdelorie> I know just enough about metal lathes to give bad advice...
[15:12:39] <roycroft> hardly any oxygen in it at all
[15:12:43] <dioz> djdelorie: lol
[15:12:44] <djdelorie> the LD50 of water is, what, a few gallons?
[15:13:01] <miss0r> Erant: already tested and prooved :) Perhaps you can shed some light on a new development :) (not realy a big deal). I added a flyback rectifyer over one of the relays, to avoid P5.1 lighting up all the time. now the relay deenergizes "slowly"
[15:13:22] <dioz> djdelorie: idk but i do know there was a radio station that had a segment calle d"hold your wee for a wii" and it resulted in someone dying from a lethal dose of water
[15:13:38] <djdelorie> dioz: for the browsing: I partially restored a 1922 South Bend engine lathe: http://www.delorie.com/photos/southbend-lathe/
[15:13:52] <dioz> that's exciting! /me clicks
[15:14:03] <djdelorie> I have come close to... well, issues... from breathing water. Very scary.
[15:14:07] <cradek> miss0r: it's normal for the collapsing field to keep the relay engaged a little longer - that's how the flyback works
[15:14:21] <dioz> did you have another lathe to make the pieces for the restore? or did you have a supply of old pieces?
[15:15:16] <CaptHindsight> the ignore feature allows you to miss out of Negative Attention Theater as well
[15:15:16] <djdelorie> I had all the original pieces, it was owned by people I know since WWII. I ended up 3D printing some new ones to add metric threading to it, though. It pre-dates the spares on eBay.
[15:15:16] <jepler> djdelorie: any narrative or blog style pages about the restoration?
[15:15:32] <djdelorie> not really. I suppose I could write something up, but that's not my style.
[15:15:37] <jepler> yeah I just arrived at http://www.delorie.com/photos/southbend-lathe/img_3132.html surprised to see plastic involved..
[15:15:41] <cradek> wow what 3d printing technology can make a working change gear?
[15:16:06] <djdelorie> cradek: that gear is ONLY for metric threading, which is a very light load for that lathe, and doesn't require the axle be driven.
[15:16:10] <djdelorie> otherwise I wouldn't have attempted it.
[15:16:10] <miss0r> cradek alright, thanks
[15:16:24] <djdelorie> it's ABS though
[15:16:49] <cradek> it looks like less than 127 teeth - what is it?
[15:16:54] <djdelorie> if it breaks, I'll either print another one or have a great excuse to buy a dividing head :-)
[15:16:58] <cradek> heh
[15:17:48] <djdelorie> the two gears are 97:42 and 80:63. They're very close to "accurate" for the number of threads I'm cutting, and fit on the banjo
[15:18:18] <jepler> someday I'll dabble with a 3d printer again. I don't want one that has to be tinkered with much before it'll work right, though. do those even exist yet?
[15:18:37] <djdelorie> one works with the 110-tooth drive gear, the other works with fractional ratios
[15:18:47] <djdelorie> jepler: if you have enough money, sure ;-)
[15:18:59] <CaptHindsight> they do, but most don't wish to pay the price for them
[15:19:21] <jepler> oh yeah it should cost about $200 ;)
[15:19:27] <FinboySlick> The new ones with that 'air contact suface' thing seem interesting.
[15:20:25] <djdelorie> for example, the 97:42 set with 40 and 110 gears gives 0.50mm, and the 80:63 with 48 and 80 gives 1.50mm
[15:20:46] <cradek> ooh the threading indicator is cool!
[15:20:58] <FinboySlick> (Carbon3D I think)
[15:21:00] <mozmck> djdelorie: banjo?
[15:21:08] <djdelorie> Yeah, there are NONE of those on eBay - they switched the mounting design in the 30's or so.
[15:21:12] <FloppyDisk525> masso... no more lcnc (j/k)
[15:21:12] <FloppyDisk525> http://www.zero-divide.net/index.php?page=fswizard
[15:21:16] <jesseg> djdelorie, check out the GPS guided sprinkler I built for my cow pasture: http://videoflier.com/movies/1473893230982110482996
[15:21:18] <FloppyDisk525> oops wrong link..
[15:21:22] <FloppyDisk525> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hindtechnology/masso-the-all-in-one-cnc-controller?ref=thanks_email_share
[15:21:23] <djdelorie> er, banjo? Yoke? Change gear holder? Big thing of metal that holds those things?
[15:21:34] <CaptHindsight> jepler: maybe manual version https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1.4zqKFXXXXcyXFXXq6xXFXXXT/-font-b-Hot-b-font-font-b-Glue-b-font-font-b-Gun-b-font.jpg
[15:21:56] <mozmck> djdelorie: oh, I thought you meant a real banjo :-)
[15:21:59] <cradek> mozmck: the thing you mount the intermediate gears on
[15:22:07] <mozmck> yeah
[15:22:43] <djdelorie> cradek: I thought of turning one - I have the machining tools, but my welding skills are still mediocre. That printed one does have an aluminum shaft though. It works surprizingly well
[15:23:21] <cradek> that's really remarkable
[15:23:39] <cradek> if it works and you can run off a couple spares why not
[15:23:45] <djdelorie> and again, if it breaks... I just hit print again :-)
[15:24:11] <djdelorie> although I am tempted to buy some "gun metal grey" filment to make them blend in a little better ;-)
[15:24:50] <cradek> that's made to last: http://www.delorie.com/photos/southbend-lathe/img_2629.html
[15:24:55] <CaptHindsight> FloppyDisk525: no mention of the processor or the software
[15:25:11] <FloppyDisk525> I wonder if it's Linuxcnc - HA!
[15:25:42] <FloppyDisk525> The thing that irks me is they say, "NO PC" then show a pix of a keyboard and monitor. Ummm, that's a pc...
[15:26:24] <djdelorie> yeah, it's in really good shape. I'm the fourth owner I think, not counting the surplus company my father-in-law's friend bought it from in 1945.
[15:26:40] <FloppyDisk525> A whole LCNC dedicated system is less than they want...
[15:31:15] <djdelorie> people complained that I was vandalizing the lathe by putting plastic gears on it, but my cnc machine (WHICH IS STILL BROKEN DAMMIT) is made of plywood so there's symmetry ;-)
[15:33:00] <SpeedEvil> :)
[15:33:22] <CaptHindsight> FloppyDisk525: I'm just curious about what CPU they use
[15:34:28] <CaptHindsight> http://www.hindtechnology.com/documentation/ might be there, but didn't notice it
[15:39:32] <witnit> cradek: this was at IMTS this year :)
[15:39:35] <witnit> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/imtssb2.jpg
[15:39:56] <cradek> wow!
[15:40:05] <witnit> bleeding edge technology
[15:40:21] <djdelorie> hey, that looks just like mine, but with a longer bed...
[15:40:32] <miss0r> it does look nice thou :)
[15:40:36] <djdelorie> and a changebox
[15:40:38] <djdelorie> and shinier
[15:42:14] <CaptHindsight> http://www.southbendlathe.com/company/historical-photos
[15:43:25] <witnit> http://oi51.tinypic.com/k1yw0h.jpg you wouldnt believe how many people stopped and spent a LONG time looking at it. Lots of old guys standing around saying I remember when
[15:44:09] <witnit> they had two older lathes on display but that one was the favorite
[15:45:12] <CaptHindsight> the family behind SB lathes has been inventive.... http://www.peutertje.nl/marion_donovan.htm
[15:45:20] <CaptHindsight> from lathes to disposable diapers
[16:06:01] <roycroft> there's a youtube video out about making an edm for <$20
[16:06:31] <roycroft> it involves a 24vdc scooter/golf cart charger, a doorbell solenoid, and a flexi shaft lamp
[16:06:57] <roycroft> the build consists of attaching an aligator clip to the doorbell solenoid
[16:07:16] <roycroft> hooking one side of the power supply to the solenoid
[16:07:21] <roycroft> and the other side to the work
[16:07:34] <roycroft> one makes an electrode to put in the alligator clip
[16:07:44] <roycroft> attaches the solenoid box to the flexy shaft thing
[16:07:51] <roycroft> and then lining it up over the work
[16:08:09] <roycroft> you lower it until the electrode touches the work, which activates the solenoid, creating spark
[16:08:25] <roycroft> when spark is lost the solenoid disengages, the electrode touches the work again, etc.
[16:08:42] <roycroft> it seems really simple, so what's wrong with it?
[16:09:32] <witnit> archivist: do you want this? http://huntingtonscrew.com/clausingheadstock.pdf the guy at clausing said he found the oldest CNC colchester conversion books they had around (this still isnt the same as mine, apparently mine was older yet.) But I guess these drawings are pretty hard to come by as well.
[16:09:48] <enleth> roycroft: probably lack of fine control over the spark current, voltage curves, etc.
[16:10:31] <enleth> roycroft: it might be slow-ish, too - it should be possible to cycle the electrode current much faster than a doorbell solenoid can operate at
[16:10:39] <witnit> this lathe used to be ran off of long rolls of paper with the program written as little hole poked into the paper, a NC machine
[16:10:50] <witnit> so whatever year that was cool is about the age of this I suppose
[16:11:03] <roycroft> yes, i can see both of those as drawbacks
[16:11:30] <roycroft> and the video suggests it might take overnight to erode a fairly small through hole
[16:11:47] <enleth> roycroft: otherwise it does seem to be a nice demonstration machine at the very least, but not terribly practical
[16:11:50] <enleth> exactly
[16:11:59] <roycroft> i was discussing the other day a taper pin that is stuck in a horizontal mill crank
[16:12:22] <roycroft> and i thought that a cheap edm like that might be able to do a decent job of removing the stuck pin for me
[16:12:31] <enleth> as long as you can make sure that it won't shift and start eroding the shaft overnight, it might work
[16:12:40] <roycroft> yes, that's a concern
[16:13:00] <roycroft> and i don't recall if you were around the other day when i was discussing this, but the mill is a sheldon
[16:13:07] <enleth> I was
[16:13:13] <roycroft> and sheldon owners tend to be pretty fanatical about things being absoultely stock
[16:13:33] <roycroft> so eroding bits of the shaft and having to redrill oversize would detract from the value of the machine
[16:14:04] <roycroft> in a sense, being really slow could be a drawback in this application
[16:14:23] <roycroft> just because it would require monitoring over a prolonged period of time to ensure that the electrode does not become misaligned
[16:14:28] <enleth> roycroft: is it practical to centerpunch a hole in the tip of the pin and ue a handheld drill to progressively drill the thing out until it's just a thin shell?
[16:14:43] <enleth> *use
[16:14:46] <roycroft> that might be a possibility
[16:14:55] <roycroft> my original plan was to drill it out
[16:15:05] <roycroft> edm seems more elegant
[16:15:23] <roycroft> but my primary goal is to get the job done
[16:15:36] <enleth> it should be possible to drill it out, just beware of work hardening it in the process
[16:15:49] <roycroft> yes
[16:16:01] <roycroft> although i suspect the pin is already hardened
[16:16:19] <roycroft> i gave it a few taps with a pin punch this weekend and bent the pin punch
[16:16:25] <roycroft> i was not tapping very hard
[16:16:44] <roycroft> and i saw no visible marks on the pin from the punch
[16:17:09] <enleth> oh well
[16:17:30] <roycroft> but a flex shaft tool with a small diamond or carbide drill might do the job
[16:17:32] <enleth> dremel and diamond or carbide burr to make a small dimple on it
[16:17:55] <enleth> maybe it's just case hardened and it will drill just fine as long as you remove the outer layer
[16:19:55] <roycroft> yes, that would be nice
[16:23:38] <FinboySlick> It might sound like a silly question but given that the lathe frame is usually cast iron on these old lathes... Were the ways cast too or were they a separate steel part?
[16:26:36] <Deejay> gn8
[16:26:42] <enleth> FinboySlick: depends on the brand, some used bolt-on steel ways, most were just cast as a part of the bed, then milled on a horizontal mill and ground
[16:27:03] <enleth> FinboySlick: this is still the case with many manual lathes
[16:27:18] <enleth> probably all cheap chinese ones
[16:27:52] <enleth> FinboySlick: obviously, the mating surface for the bolt-on ways was also milled and ground
[16:30:05] <FinboySlick> OK. I imagine if they're real flat and the surface contact is softer than the cast iron, it could still last a long time without too much wear.
[16:30:25] <FinboySlick> Anyway. That's my curiosity satisfied for tonight, I'm off to watch some TV and rot my brain some more.
[16:30:28] <enleth> the steel ones?
[16:30:37] <enleth> they're supposed to be replaceable anyway
[16:30:58] <FinboySlick> I meant the cast ones.
[16:31:09] <roycroft> big debate on tv tonight
[16:31:14] <enleth> ah, you said softer than cast iron
[16:31:21] <enleth> they are cast iron
[16:31:25] <roycroft> the giant douche party candidate vs. the turd sandwich party candidate
[16:31:53] * roycroft loves 'meruca
[16:33:59] <FinboySlick> Oh that's tonight? I'll take this opportunity to remind people that it's just a blip on Mankind's long history... Over a long enough perspective, even that may fade away.
[16:34:24] <roycroft> yes, it's tonight
[16:34:31] <roycroft> 100 million people will be watching
[16:34:38] <roycroft> a superbowl-size crowd!
[16:34:56] <FinboySlick> The mind boggles. Anyway, I'm out.
[16:35:02] <roycroft> we can survive a giant douche presidency
[16:35:08] <roycroft> and we can survive a turd sandwich presidency
[16:35:22] <roycroft> regardless of who wins, this will not be the end of this country
[16:35:27] <roycroft> or the end of the world
[16:35:51] <malcom2073> Nah. It'll be inconvenient at best, and shitty at worst, but certainly not the end of most of us
[16:36:21] <roycroft> if clinton wins things will be as crappy and dysfunctional as the obama years have been
[16:36:40] <roycroft> if trump wins things will at best be as crappy and dysfunctional as the obama years have been
[16:37:20] <malcom2073> You can say this at almost any point in time: If the past 4 years have been shitty for you, the next 4 years will likely be shitty for you"
[16:38:04] <roycroft> i'm becoming increasingly convinced that "fixing" our federal government is a difficult task that will take decades ,at least
[16:38:21] <gregcnc> eh, i just survived reloading a ball nut with 92, 2mm balls
[16:38:31] <malcom2073> nice gregcnc!
[16:38:41] <roycroft> in the meantime the best we can do is ameliorate the negative effects of the federal government by relying more on state and local government and less on the feds
[16:39:16] <roycroft> meanwhile, i'll have the popcorn ready for tonight
[16:39:55] <gregcnc> ballnuts are always fun until some sends them to you in a bag with the balls rolling around in the bottom
[16:41:01] <enleth> roycroft: it's always a choice between a bland, predictable, safe-ish and uncharacteristic kinda-sorta-center kinda-sorta-liberal who's in for the profit for him and his buddies and doesn't mind anyone in particular that much - and a wacko right wing nutter who'd be happiest getting rid of anybody who doesn't fit their vision of the society
[16:41:14] <enleth> the former is crappy
[16:41:22] <enleth> the latter is crappier
[16:42:17] <MacGalempsy> :)
[16:44:14] <roycroft> and we always muddle through and make it to the next election
[16:44:53] <roycroft> 1860 was the last election that had serious consequences for the union
[16:45:18] <gregcnc> in the mean time everyone is complacent because life is easy
[16:46:32] <enleth> at least with the former you don't have to worry if they come for you one morning knocking down the doors of your house
[16:46:37] <roycroft> life coudld be a dream, life could be a dream, shaboom shaboom
[16:46:49] <enleth> instead you might worry about having a house
[16:54:44] <dioz> i hate drywalling
[16:54:53] <dioz> finished drywalling the basement bathroom window
[16:54:56] <dioz> the ceiling is next
[16:55:11] <dioz> anyone wanna come drywall my basement bathroom?
[16:55:17] <dioz> it's fun!
[16:56:23] <jdh> drywall fumes will kill you
[16:57:58] <MacGalempsy> 1860 was the year states rights were killed
[17:07:39] <witnit> dioz just think about all the mudding and sanding that comes next, that should make you feel better
[17:08:29] <MacGalempsy> witnit: hows it going? your builds coming along well?
[17:14:37] <witnit> MacGalempsy: ! very good, the unit went to IMTS and performed wonderfully and there are some people really interested in multiple units!
[17:15:34] <MacGalempsy_> that is fantasitic
[17:15:37] <dioz> witnit: lol. i wanna kill you. lol
[17:15:38] <MacGalempsy_> fantastic
[17:16:00] <dioz> no seriously gimme your address
[17:17:30] <witnit> trololool
[17:17:57] <dioz> i got some inside and outside corner bead which should make it a bit easier instead of doing it all with tape but yah
[17:17:57] <witnit> Its definitely cool to see the ball rolling =D
[17:17:59] <malcom2073> dioz: Gonna weld galv near him? :-P
[17:18:12] <dioz> mudding is such a dirty job
[17:18:16] <dioz> then the sanding
[17:18:22] <dioz> then more mudding and more sanding
[17:18:28] <witnit> is your machine coming along MacGalempsy_
[17:18:34] <dioz> i'd rather inhale all the galv fumes malcom2073
[17:18:40] <malcom2073> ah k
[17:18:49] <Tom_L> we'd rather you did too
[17:19:10] <dioz> now you're just being mean
[17:19:18] <witnit> you can melt steel beams with galv fumes
[17:19:20] <dioz> i'm cool with it though i got big shoulders
[17:19:21] <Tom_L> no just agreeable
[17:19:53] <dioz> gf says once i finish the walls in the basement bathroom she's gonna let me order this welder
[17:20:01] <dioz> http://www.everlastwelders.ca/tigwelders/powertig-185-dv.php
[17:20:27] <dioz> i'm happy as a clam
[17:20:28] <Tom_L> lies
[17:20:32] <dioz> swear to god Tom_L
[17:20:33] <Tom_L> it's just a ploy
[17:20:39] <dioz> oh you're saying she's lying
[17:20:41] <dioz> yah she could be
[17:21:02] <roycroft> i like my powertig 250 a lot
[17:21:16] <dioz> cbc radio one had a segment that said there's only a 1% different in male on female vs. female on male domenstic abuse... the only difference is men tend to be stronger so they do more damage
[17:21:20] <dioz> i thought that was pretty interesting
[17:21:24] <witnit> yeah but he likes his g/f alot so he has to go with the 150 model
[17:21:28] <dioz> :s/different/difference/
[17:21:56] <MacGalempsy_> witnit: it has been on hold for 2 weeks since I picked up an EDM and had totally redo the work area
[17:22:08] <dioz> roycroft: you got a everlast?
[17:22:26] <roycroft> yes, about 3 years ago
[17:22:40] <roycroft> powertig 250 with cooler, and a plasma cutter
[17:22:43] <roycroft> i forget what model
[17:22:43] <witnit> oh yesh, thats the problem with these projects, just as you are finishing up one, another cuts in line
[17:23:38] <Tom_L> https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xfa1/t51.2885-15/e15/11098348_1569168889998700_945226197_n.jpg
[17:23:46] <MacGalempsy_> for sure. the EDM is all hooked up, but the manual I have is for a different model. so today I ordered up a new operators manual and once it gets here it should be another day until I get it up and going
[17:23:54] <dioz> is that you Tom_L ?
[17:25:00] <_methods> if it is i'm heading to his house for some welding lessons
[17:25:03] <dioz> same
[17:25:06] <witnit> Tom_L: you really should have more respect for your body, what will you say when your grandchildren find that picture of you in the future?
[17:25:07] <MacGalempsy_> Tom_L: you aren't worried about a tan line with that shirt on?
[17:25:14] <witnit> hjajhajhahj
[17:25:31] <dioz> you ever get sparks in your...
[17:25:33] <dioz> hair?
[17:26:11] <JT-Shop> is that a kitty welding helment
[17:27:40] <Tom_L> http://www.atimetolaugh.org/images/man-welding-dangerous-sparks.jpg
[17:27:58] <dioz> that isn't that dangerous
[17:28:03] <dioz> i've seen worse
[17:28:12] <witnit> Ive probably done worse
[17:28:26] <MacGalempsy_> hope those valves are in good order
[17:29:40] <witnit> its not that uncommon for such things to get showered in sparks though, or a small fireball popping away in your torch handle or pinhole in the hose
[17:30:09] <dioz> can you tell what kind of metal he's grinding/cutting by the type of spark you see?
[17:30:36] <witnit> im going to say..... rust
[17:31:08] <dioz> when i was in trade school they had a book that talked about the sound it made as well as the sparks you'd see
[17:31:34] <witnit> alchemy
[17:31:38] <dioz> wasn't anything we had to learn but the instructor said you could do it
[17:33:56] <witnit> its probably not unlike getting material grades mixxed up and hearing your tooling work harder and so forth
[17:55:35] <JT-Shop> Tom_L: do you do any reprap?
[17:59:06] <Tom_L> no
[17:59:11] <Tom_L> i followed it a while
[17:59:22] <Tom_L> i've done some at the uni but not my own
[17:59:59] <JT-Shop> I have a chinlee clone of the prusa i3 on the way just to see...
[18:00:15] <Tom_L> should be ok
[18:00:28] <MacGalempsy> heated bed?
[18:00:38] <JT-Shop> yea
[18:00:43] <JT-Shop> $218
[18:00:52] <MacGalempsy> thats pretty cheap.
[18:01:06] <JT-Shop> XXCoder: has one
[18:01:10] <MacGalempsy> I guess by the time you are done wiht it, you will have replaced almost everything on it
[18:01:17] <JT-Shop> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Full-Metal-Frame-3D-Printer-Professional-3d-Color-Printer-with-8GB-SD-Card-LCD-One-Roll/32705186296.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.55.lDwfgk
[18:01:33] <JT-Shop> he said he only had to fix a few things
[18:01:53] <MacGalempsy> you going to use MESA card on it?
[18:02:10] <JT-Shop> comes ready to go
[18:02:13] <MacGalempsy> looks like it comes with ramps
[18:02:15] <JT-Shop> yea
[18:02:22] <JT-Shop> and a sd reader
[18:02:57] <JT-Shop> I have all the hardware to build another one but still wondering what kind
[18:02:59] <MacGalempsy> I have a feeling you will need some angle supports to keep the mast from wobbleing too much
[18:03:26] <JT-Shop> seems well supported to me
[18:03:40] <MacGalempsy> ok
[18:03:54] <Tom_L> looks ok to me
[18:04:02] <Tom_L> pretty darn cheap too
[18:04:09] <JT-Shop> aye
[18:04:43] <JT-Shop> it comes with everything but a pc and a copy of slic3r
[18:04:53] <Tom_L> all that's free :D
[18:05:14] <JT-Shop> yea, I've already sorted slic3r out a bit
[18:05:33] <JT-Shop> interesting it can spit out LinuxCNC G code
[18:05:51] <FloppyDisk525> that's nice... I like kissslicer better, slic3r wouldn't work for some models as well, although slic3r might be better now.
[18:06:07] <MacGalempsy> I use ramps and slicer works good
[18:06:27] <FloppyDisk525> that little prusa is nice, looks easier to build than the i3 mendel prusa.
[18:06:37] <MacGalempsy> funny thing is like 3 or 4 yeras ago the ramps package I got was a little more than that whole printer
[18:08:27] <malcom2073> China is amazing like that
[18:08:30] <Erant> The 3D printers are OK if you're trying to prototype something, or make a case or something.
[18:09:05] <Erant> The FDM ones can be a little iffy to tune, depending on what you're starting with.
[18:09:23] <Tom_L> i lost track of all my reprap software it's been so long
[18:09:45] <Erant> Some of them for example just have really shitty PID tuning on their heating element.
[18:09:45] <FloppyDisk525> i wanted to make one from a lcd projector, no time...
[18:09:46] <MacGalempsy> I will say that the typical chinese psu is notorious for being underpowered
[18:10:05] <FloppyDisk525> ^^ not just that...
[18:10:11] <Erant> MacGalempsy: 'course. More copper means more $$$.
[18:10:15] <MacGalempsy> with Marlin, just run the auto PID tune like 5 times and you are set
[18:10:29] <JT-Shop> what does that do?
[18:10:33] <Tom_L> does it write to the config itself?
[18:10:39] <Tom_L> that's kinda nice
[18:11:06] <MacGalempsy> if you only run the PID once, it could be wrong, but if you run it like 5 or more times, it will converge on the correct values
[18:11:09] <Erant> Tom_L: It's a very slow process, could probably get by with a carefully chosen P-only method :)
[18:11:35] <JT-Shop> I have marlin on my ramps 1.4 board but need a display
[18:12:14] <JT-Shop> seems odd to have springs to hold the bed up...
[18:12:30] <JT-Shop> some precise spacers sound better
[18:14:33] <Tom_L> it may have auto height adjustment
[18:14:51] <Tom_L> if so you want a little flex
[18:15:50] <malcom2073> Springs are typically bad, but fine-tuned bed leveling is beyond the chinese machines out of the box
[18:16:24] <malcom2073> I spent way too much moeny and time on my two printers with how cheap this stuff is getting heh
[18:17:05] <JT-Shop> does marlin "home" the machine?
[18:17:22] <malcom2073> It can
[18:17:36] <Tom_L> i forget what pronterface was
[18:17:40] <malcom2073> It has the capability to handle home switches and auto-home
[18:18:07] <Tom_L> malcom2073 you should have waited
[18:18:18] <Tom_L> i paid way too much for my very first hdd too
[18:18:24] <malcom2073> Tom_L: That's the way it always is heh
[18:18:31] <malcom2073> I did *not* pay too much for my first mill though :-D
[18:18:33] <JT-Shop> with 2 Z steppers I'd think you need to home it to get it square
[18:18:54] <malcom2073> JT-Shop: They're typically tied to a single stepper driver
[18:19:20] <JT-Shop> so you just square it by hand?
[18:19:47] <malcom2073> Yeah. Unless the machine turns off in an odd spot that causes the steppers to click in opposite directions when powering on... it's usually ok to do it once and forget
[18:22:17] <JT-Shop> ok, no clue at this point...
[18:23:32] <JT-Shop> I did move a stepper once or twice with my ramps
[18:23:40] <Tom_L> yeah wait and get your hardware and burn your fingers a few times on the tip and it will all become clear
[18:23:47] <malcom2073> Hah yeah
[18:23:48] <JT-Shop> lol
[18:23:54] <malcom2073> Nothing like a 230C burn
[18:23:58] <malcom2073> wake you up in the morning
[18:24:42] <JT-Shop> better than a scratch for me... a scratch and I look like the SNL julia childs skit
[18:24:49] <Tom_L> oh and get the hot plastic stuck to your finger
[18:25:58] <Tom_L> at the uni, they used a simple kids glue stick to stick to the table
[18:26:08] <malcom2073> I need to get my printer running again.... but tbh it'd cost more to get it running than to buy a new one :/
[18:26:14] <Tom_L> i've seen all sorts of stuff used for that
[18:26:24] <Tom_L> hair spray, tape of all sorts etc
[18:26:59] <CaptHindsight> heh, adhesion is magic
[18:27:15] <malcom2073> I love PEI for bed material, sticks every time
[18:27:41] <malcom2073> Too well sometimes
[18:27:56] <CaptHindsight> polyethyleneimine?
[18:28:09] <malcom2073> polyetherimide
[18:28:25] <MacGalempsy> Super mega hold hair spray works well
[18:29:22] <CaptHindsight> we could have a scientific discussion about adhesion by why do that?
[18:29:48] <malcom2073> Indeed, save that for #reprap :-P
[18:29:57] <JT-Shop> is adhesion a touchy thing?
[18:30:05] <malcom2073> it's a sticky subject
[18:30:13] <Tom_L> JT-Shop, it can be
[18:30:13] <CaptHindsight> <rimshot>
[18:30:20] <Tom_L> if you have a print peel up partway
[18:30:22] <JT-Shop> #reprap has a high static to signal ratio
[18:30:37] <Tom_L> #robotics will talk to you too
[18:30:42] <Tom_L> less static
[18:30:59] <JT-Shop> do they do printing?
[18:31:07] <Tom_L> quite a few do
[18:31:24] <JT-Shop> only 74 in there today
[18:31:31] <Tom_L> i know rue does quite a bit
[18:31:36] <JT-Shop> rep 500+
[18:32:00] <Tom_L> 499 static 1 overwhelmed guru
[18:32:03] <JT-Shop> he is there in 3 places
[18:32:07] <JT-Shop> lol
[18:32:14] <Tom_L> just like JT-Shop an jthornton-
[18:32:18] <Tom_L> several pcs
[18:32:32] <JT-Shop> aye
[18:32:51] <CaptHindsight> adhesion is like glue and stuff
[18:32:57] <Tom_L> or #garfield if you just wanna talk to him
[18:33:43] <Tom_L> CaptHindsight, it's a sticky subject i'd rather not get into
[18:33:58] <JT-Shop> Tom_L: you got some of this great weather too
[18:34:09] <Tom_L> was nice this am
[18:34:17] <Tom_L> lookin like fall
[18:34:25] <JT-Shop> you and rue and me in garfield lol
[18:34:32] <JT-Shop> finally
[18:34:36] <Tom_L> a couple others show sometimes
[18:34:55] <Tom_L> i just generally leave a message there and check back later
[18:35:07] <JT-Shop> it was 95F yesterday when we went to reelfoot lake
[18:35:17] <JT-Shop> or however it is speeleed
[18:38:25] <Tom_L> 74° right now
[18:38:44] <JT-Shop> temp broken here for weather.gov lol
[18:38:58] <Tom_L> predicted Hi 73 / Lo 52
[18:39:37] <Tom_L> everyone be sure to tune to your local network tonight :)
[18:39:39] <Tom_L> not.
[18:39:39] <JT-Shop> pretty much the same here
[18:39:45] <JT-Shop> lol
[18:40:09] <Tom_L> glad i love pc's
[18:40:17] <Tom_L> alternative tv to me
[18:40:52] <Tom_L> pretty much finished my program though
[18:40:58] <JT-Shop> cool
[18:45:43] <CaptHindsight> what makes stuff stick? It's not a chemical bond.
[18:46:01] <CaptHindsight> is all PLA filament the same?
[18:48:40] <malcom2073> What makes melted plastic to stick to anything?
[18:49:09] <CaptHindsight> why is it stickier when it's a liquid vs a solid?
[18:49:18] <malcom2073> No clue
[18:50:12] <malcom2073> That falls squarely into the category of "things that work, that I don't need to know why they work to use them"
[18:50:17] <malcom2073> :)
[18:50:42] <CaptHindsight> it won't stick well to silicones, oils or wax
[18:52:33] <CaptHindsight> it's like feedrates and spindle speeds, you can ignore them if you just stick with one materials and cutting tool
[18:52:58] <CaptHindsight> just save the setting that works
[18:53:34] <malcom2073> Right. If you only cut aluminum and steel, and you only use a 1/2 and 3/4 endmills, you can make a table with what works, and not worry about anything else
[18:54:20] <malcom2073> Lot more variations in milling than 3d printing :)
[18:54:31] <malcom2073> So: Why does it stick?
[18:54:45] <CaptHindsight> do people ignore the reprap table, or is there not one yet?
[18:55:02] <malcom2073> table?
[18:55:06] <malcom2073> Oh,
[18:55:35] <CaptHindsight> like you mentioned about feedrates and 2 materials and 2 size end mills
[18:55:38] <malcom2073> It's not as cut and dry as it is for machining. What material does PLA stick to best? Depends on a lot of things.
[18:56:17] <malcom2073> Mostly people figure out what works for their setup, and that's their own table
[18:56:49] <CaptHindsight> that's why it's probably the number 1 topic and question
[18:57:05] <malcom2073> Makes sense
[18:59:27] <CaptHindsight> if you spin a 1/2" 2-flute end mill at 1k rpm you know how fast the cutting edge is going and it doesn't vary
[19:01:02] <CaptHindsight> the temp of the PLA exiting the nozzle however is all over the place even though the printer software says 190 C (or whatever you have it set for)
[19:01:42] <CaptHindsight> same for the temp of the surface that the PLA is being deposited on
[19:02:00] <Erant> It's something with the polymer chains being... broken? Misaligned?
[19:02:08] <CaptHindsight> how fast the PLA cools also varies
[19:04:14] <CaptHindsight> with thermoplastics it has to do with surface tension, pressure differential and flex
[19:04:32] * JT-Shop wanders inside to stimulate better half to cook lol
[19:05:17] <CaptHindsight> ever notice how gummy tape and glues bond so well
[19:05:36] <CaptHindsight> vs a very stiff setting adhesive
[19:06:05] <kyle____> hello
[19:10:56] * pcw_mesa wishes JT-Shop good luck in that endeavor
[19:16:40] <Erant> CaptHindsight: fwiw, it has to do with the 'glass transition' of a material.
[19:16:51] <Erant> In case you actually wanted to know ;)
[19:23:52] <CaptHindsight> Tg is just when it changes from glassy to liquid
[19:24:18] <Erant> But the polymer chains start sliding.
[19:24:24] <CaptHindsight> the extruder nozzles are well over that temp
[19:24:34] <CaptHindsight> and they still have adhesion issues
[19:24:35] <Erant> Which I would assume creates the tackiness.
[19:24:56] <Erant> Right. It's why there's heated beds.
[19:25:16] <Erant> Oh. I just remembered. I have an actual LinuxCNC question.
[19:26:02] <Erant> For some reason when I go above 60 or so IPM on my machine, it starts throwing joint following errors. But I'm using stepgen with a 5i25...
[19:26:42] <CaptHindsight> heated beds and still adhesion problems
[19:27:23] <CaptHindsight> thats why it's magic
[19:27:48] <Erant> I think I'm at about... 160k steps per second at that point. Which doesn't seem like it should cause any major issues.
[19:31:18] <kyle____> has anyone tried a raspberry pi cnc hat from protoneer?
[19:35:28] <dioz> oh god i hate drywall mudding and taping
[19:35:32] <dioz> anyone wanna finish this for me?
[19:35:35] <dioz> it's fun!
[19:35:51] <jesseg> tom sawyer fun huh
[19:36:35] <CaptHindsight> just use a PLA bed and heat both the bed and the extruded PLA to over its Tg :)
[19:37:24] <pfred1> kyle____ I can't say as i have
[19:37:38] <kyle____> hmm
[19:38:03] <pfred1> I can say I might be up for the idiot of the month award this month though
[19:38:19] <kyle____> lol what did you do
[19:38:38] <pfred1> I bought this SMPS PSU and i was testing it out and it did not seem to work
[19:38:53] <pfred1> so I open up a dispute like it is defective
[19:39:02] <pfred1> then i learn there's a 110/220 switch on it
[19:39:41] <pfred1> it works fine in the right position for the input voltage
[19:40:02] <jesseg> lol I was waiting to hear whether you plugged it into 220 in the 110 mode
[19:40:27] <pfred1> nah they were smart and shipped it in the 220V position
[19:40:27] <jesseg> basically when the switch is in 110 mode, it doubles the voltage.. lol
[19:40:33] <pfred1> I know
[19:40:38] <pfred1> but some switch on their own
[19:40:48] <pfred1> this one obviously doesn't
[19:41:14] <jesseg> yeah, the PFC ones cover from like 90 to 280 AC/DC continuous range :P
[19:41:31] <pfred1> yeah this one is a Chinese POS
[19:41:39] <pfred1> but i have to say setup right it does work
[19:42:08] <pfred1> when i contacted them they were like move the adjustment pot and I'd already done that
[19:42:16] <pfred1> so it isn't like they knew any more than I did
[19:42:52] <pfred1> now i just need to make a 5V board to go with it
[19:43:19] <pfred1> because i need 5V for the optocouplers
[19:44:09] <pfred1> well I don't need 5V I could use current limiting resistors but i need some lower voltages for other electronics
[19:44:28] <dioz> how much should a 4 x 8 - 3 axis cnc water table cost with a plasma cutter?
[19:44:41] <pfred1> so I might as well slap a 5V regulator on it too
[19:45:12] <pfred1> I found a neat circuit online that uses a zener diode and a pass transistor
[19:45:31] <pfred1> that drops the higher voltage down to 12V then i can regulate that
[19:46:04] <pfred1> I already have it breadboarded and it works great but i need to make a permenent version of it for the machine
[19:48:14] <pcw_mesa> Erant: following errors on hm2-steogens are usually setup issues (not enough stepgen velocity or acceleration headroom)
[19:48:31] <pcw_mesa> s/steogens/stepgens/
[19:48:44] <pfred1> s/steogens/stepgens/g;
[19:49:01] <pcw_mesa> 5I25 stepgens are good to about 8 MHz
[19:49:09] <pfred1> man sed
[19:54:49] <Cromaglious_> pfred1, I keep forgetting about that circuit it's a decent one..
[19:55:28] <Cromaglious_> there is another which uses a 78xx to control the external transistor for more power as well
[19:55:31] <pfred1> yeah the one i found said it is for regulating voltage in a car
[19:55:47] <pfred1> yeah you can use a pass transistor on a regular regulator
[19:56:17] <Cromaglious_> I have a 2amp battery charger which uses a 7812 and several diodes to raise the voltage up to 13.7v
[19:56:23] <pfred1> check out this beast i made http://www.instructables.com/id/300-Watt-Linear-Power-Supply/
[19:56:31] <pfred1> it has 3 pass transistors in parallel
[19:57:08] <Cromaglious_> we added some more diodes to raise the voltage to 14.5v
[19:57:33] <Cromaglious_> this was back in 1978 or so
[19:57:37] <pfred1> what'd you do raise the ground?
[19:58:08] <Cromaglious_> yep
[20:00:00] <pfred1> I got my yeah I've heard of it i just use LM317s
[20:00:16] <pfred1> I just got my TL494 ICs today
[20:00:20] <Cromaglious_> 3055's ROCK!
[20:00:29] <pfred1> I'm going to try my hand at making my own SMPS
[20:01:01] <pfred1> because beefy step down transformers are just getting too hard to come by anymore
[20:01:08] <Cromaglious_> my astek PS uses them
[20:01:41] <Erant> pcw_mesa: Yeah, maybe I'll give it more headroom... I think I already did like 2x or 3x.
[20:01:51] <Cromaglious_> I have an old dc PS for an RV out in the garage... I stole some parts off of it.. I need to fix it up as a bench supply
[20:03:18] <Cromaglious_> using the outside taps it's good for 37v.
[20:03:32] <pfred1> 37VAC?
[20:03:38] <Cromaglious_> yep
[20:03:57] <pfred1> filtered and rectified that'll take it X 1.41 over that
[20:04:25] <pfred1> which is annoying when you're looking for a specific voltage
[20:04:35] <Cromaglious_> as built it was a center tap 1/2 wave each side... the regualted down from that
[20:04:59] <pfred1> so it should put out 52.17VDC
[20:06:02] <Cromaglious_> the transformer is a good 12 to 15#'s by itself
[20:06:21] <pfred1> I have a x-former out of a mini computer
[20:06:57] <pfred1> I seriesed a couple windingsi n it and I'm getting 28VDC out of it
[20:07:28] <pfred1> it is as big as a brick too
[20:09:24] <pfred1> everything needs power
[20:09:45] <pfred1> CNC machines need a lot of current too
[20:10:11] <pfred1> watts and watts of power
[20:17:33] <MacGalempsy> 1.21 gigawatts!
[20:28:34] <MacGalempsy> it's that time!
[20:46:45] <Tom_L> i seriesed 3 surplus to get the current up
[20:47:13] <Tom_L> sure gotta get the phase right when you do
[20:47:20] <pfred1> yup
[20:47:37] <pfred1> I got lucky seriesing the coils in the x-former i use
[20:47:39] <jesseg> Tom_L, wouldn't seriesing them get the voltage up?
[20:48:01] <Tom_L> err parallel, sorry
[20:48:05] <Tom_L> both sides
[20:48:05] <jesseg> ahh K
[20:48:45] <Tom_L> with 1 bridge on the output
[20:48:58] <pfred1> a PSU is an issue that is easy for builders to overlook with CNC
[20:48:59] <jesseg> like a full wave bridge?
[20:49:01] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/caps2.jpg
[20:49:05] <Tom_L> yes
[20:49:16] <jesseg> so I guess your turns was matched :D
[20:49:23] <pfred1> they get all wrapped up in motors and drivers and forget they need to power it all too
[20:49:35] <jesseg> Tom_L, haha that is sweeeet
[20:49:57] <jesseg> nice old fashioned enclosed transformers. perfect.
[20:50:17] <Tom_L> all surplus
[20:50:26] <jesseg> yeah
[20:50:26] <pfred1> hard to come by these days
[20:50:53] <pfred1> that stuff is a thing of the past anymore
[20:51:22] <Tom_L> yeah
[20:51:28] <pfred1> which is why I am going to try to learn how to build my own SMPS
[20:51:53] <pfred1> I just got 20 TL494 ICs to fool around with
[20:51:59] <jesseg> I usually just look for good deals on big PFC switchers like 20A/48V or 10A/24V for the smaller stuff. Those can often be paralleled as well.
[20:52:18] <Tom_L> yeah smps would be more efficient
[20:52:29] <pfred1> I'm doing it for availability
[20:52:31] <Tom_L> but this was local surplus so i just went with it
[20:52:33] <jesseg> pfred1, yeah there's nothing magic about smps, just a bunch of little gotchas
[20:52:46] <jesseg> Tom_L, exactly.
[20:53:05] <pfred1> I love the simplicity of step down transformers but the world has moved on from them
[20:53:25] <malcom2073> I still love 'em heh
[20:53:40] <pfred1> I do too but that won't change how things are now
[20:53:43] <jesseg> pfred1, not completely moved on. The bulk of cheap UPS units have a nice huge honkin transformer in it.
[20:53:55] <pfred1> yeah but it is a worthless voltage
[20:54:13] <jesseg> pfred1, 24v too low? Series two for 48 then :P
[20:54:23] <jesseg> pfred, what voltage do you need?
[20:54:33] <pfred1> then you're getting into the not so simple
[20:54:46] <pfred1> right now i need 32V
[20:54:49] <malcom2073> Transformers are great for isolation as well as low-noise voltage conversions. If you don't need either of them, SMPS is by far superior
[20:55:44] <jesseg> pfred1, okay, one UPS transformer has a 12-0-12 output which gives you 24, which times 1.4 is 33.6v :P
[20:55:50] <pfred1> if yo ugot all kinds of money you can buy a custom toroid
[20:55:55] <jesseg> pfred1, then you lose a little on the diodes, and bingo, your 32v.
[20:56:01] <Tom_L> i'm pretty sure only one of those xfrmrs would have been enough for my sherline
[20:56:26] <Tom_L> i was building the control for future expansion to a larger mill
[20:57:25] <Tom_L> i forget if you gain or lose going from AC to rectified dc but there is a difference
[20:57:32] <pfred1> gain
[20:57:38] <pfred1> you fill in the gaps
[20:57:39] <jesseg> Tom_L, yeah you gain 1/sqrt(2)
[20:57:40] <Tom_L> that's what i was thinking
[20:57:50] <jesseg> wait you gain sqrt(2) :P
[20:57:51] <pfred1> well ideally you do
[20:58:03] <jesseg> yeah, not counting coil resistance and diode drop
[20:58:05] <pfred1> what you don't is called ripple
[20:58:15] <jesseg> and ripple :P
[20:58:45] <Tom_L> i just know it's better than talking about welding zinc
[20:59:08] <pfred1> I still like the white wisps that come off galvanized
[20:59:15] <pfred1> its like them magic snakes
[20:59:25] <Tom_L> heh kinda
[21:00:12] <pfred1> but I don't see myself doing it ever again anytime too soon
[21:00:18] <jesseg> pfred1, I'm not saying that you shouldn't try making a switching power supply. They are very nifty, and once you get a grasp on the tendencies of high frequency high current, you'll have lots of fun. But I bet UPS transformers could be very handy for lots of us folks out there, and so easy to get when the battery dies folks throw them away
[21:00:43] <pfred1> jesseg trouble is where i live now thre are no folks
[21:01:02] <pfred1> thre's liek nothing here
[21:01:22] <pfred1> population density by me is about 20 a square mile
[21:01:43] <pfred1> most of them can't evne spell UPS either
[21:03:22] <jesseg> pfred1, oh... no access to technology
[21:03:37] <pfred1> pretty much no access to anything
[21:03:53] <pfred1> well there's plenty of sticks and sand here
[21:05:13] <jesseg> hmm did I miss anything?
[21:05:32] <pfred1> not really no
[21:06:09] <pfred1> I moved out to the country it is peaceful here
[21:06:20] <jesseg> roughly where are ya?
[21:06:27] <pfred1> but it does limit my access to good junk
[21:06:38] <pfred1> I live by Georgetown DE
[21:06:43] <jesseg> not within 20 miles of a thriving city?
[21:06:44] <Tom_L> some have tried to make smps with avrs
[21:06:51] <pfred1> I have a Georgetown zipcode but I'm not actually incorporated
[21:07:05] <jesseg> pfred1, oh that does sound nice and rural
[21:07:16] <pfred1> willmington is the closest city
[21:07:23] <pfred1> it is about an hour and 40 minutes from me
[21:07:29] <jesseg> lol
[21:07:43] <pfred1> I've actually never been there
[21:07:49] <pfred1> it's a shithole
[21:07:57] <jesseg> I'm surprised you're not running your machinery off of a 36 volt solar charged battery bank :D
[21:08:10] <pfred1> well I live in the woods so not much sun
[21:08:24] <jesseg> a diesel gen then?
[21:08:26] <jesseg> :D
[21:08:33] <pfred1> I got grid electricity
[21:08:43] <pfred1> I even got fios
[21:08:49] <pfred1> which blows my mind
[21:08:56] <jesseg> amazing
[21:09:11] <pfred1> it is but they said they were going to wire the whole phone exchange and they did
[21:09:25] <pfred1> they had to run over 900 feet of cable on my property just to hook me up
[21:09:38] <pfred1> from the pole
[21:09:46] <jesseg> I thought about doing a SMPS with a micro. It could be OK I suppose if one were to do it in some real careful assembly :D
[21:10:00] <jesseg> lol wow.
[21:10:20] <pfred1> yeah I'm set back off the street a bit here
[21:10:48] <jesseg> hmm, newsweek describes wilmington as "Murder Town USA"
[21:10:53] <Tom_L> what would you use if you didn't?
[21:10:58] <pfred1> yeah place has its problems
[21:11:12] <pfred1> but I'm pretty far from it so
[21:11:15] <Tom_L> every place has problems anymore
[21:11:30] <pfred1> it's good in the hood here
[21:11:46] <pfred1> the way things are is kind of why I'm here now
[21:12:03] <pfred1> I'm in my bug out location already
[21:12:06] <jesseg> Yep, only way to get away from problems is to be noplace, like way out in the country :P
[21:12:24] <pfred1> I mean I saw 9/11 in person
[21:12:39] <jesseg> oh, the planes hitting the towers?
[21:12:47] * Cromaglious_ is looking at his diesel genset
[21:12:49] <pfred1> not that but i saw the second tower fall
[21:12:51] <Tom_L> i wouldn't care to go thru that
[21:12:57] <Cromaglious_> need to work on it..
[21:13:21] <pfred1> I was living about 10 miles outside of NYC then
[21:13:27] <jesseg> ahh
[21:13:31] <pfred1> so I could see NYC from the other side of town
[21:13:37] * Cromaglious_ is on a smaller city lot 1 story house, no basement :(
[21:13:55] <pfred1> I don't have a basement
[21:14:01] <Tom_L> i watch "cops" once in a while and have recognized locations here several times
[21:14:04] <pfred1> water table here is like 3 feet down
[21:14:11] <Cromaglious_> I need to win a lottery so I can have a basement duig under my house
[21:14:21] <pfred1> stay above ground
[21:14:29] <Cromaglious_> build a boat for a basement
[21:14:30] <Tom_L> Cromaglious_, i did that actually
[21:14:51] <Cromaglious_> I have a slab floor so it would be fun
[21:14:56] <pfred1> yo ucould dig a basement by hand in a short amount of time
[21:15:11] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/house/1.jpg
[21:15:17] <pfred1> couple weeks i figure
[21:15:33] <pfred1> with shoring and concrete pouring call it a month
[21:15:54] <Cromaglious_> I'd take out my driveway and dig from there
[21:15:55] <Tom_L> best thing i ever did
[21:16:20] <pfred1> I had to do a lot of work on the cellar of my old place before i sold it
[21:16:29] <pfred1> I did it all by hand
[21:16:37] <pfred1> 10 bags of concrete at a time
[21:16:39] <Tom_L> this had a small cellar
[21:16:49] <Tom_L> i had the cement work done
[21:16:53] <Tom_L> i did all the rest
[21:17:01] <Tom_L> finish wise
[21:17:14] <pfred1> there's not much to finishing concrete
[21:17:35] <pfred1> scree it and trowel it
[21:17:47] <Tom_L> i mean i finished after that was done
[21:17:53] <Tom_L> they dug the hole and concrete
[21:18:05] <pfred1> well that's what smoothing concrete out is called it is called finishing
[21:18:38] <pfred1> I was a union laborer working in the building trades so I did a lot of concrete jobs
[21:19:02] <pfred1> working in the new york metro area I worked with some of the best
[21:22:53] <roycroft> keeping it from dehydrating too quickly is important, but not hard to do
[21:23:04] <pfred1> nope
[21:23:13] <pfred1> sometimes we'd spray cure on the floors
[21:23:17] <roycroft> i mention it only in the interest of completeness
[21:23:25] <pfred1> which is kind of like thinned out PVA glue
[21:24:31] <pfred1> the slower concrete sets up the stronger it gets
[21:24:35] <roycroft> yes
[21:24:41] <pfred1> it is a crystal
[21:24:46] <roycroft> the hoover dam took years to cure
[21:24:48] <roycroft> by intent
[21:24:59] <pfred1> well all concrete sets over years
[21:25:09] <pfred1> it reaches maximum strength after decades
[21:25:25] <pfred1> the crystals grow slower and slower
[21:25:35] <pfred1> but hey keep on growing
[21:26:29] <pfred1> they used aggreate in the hoover dame feet in diameter
[21:26:35] <pfred1> huge boulders
[21:27:47] <pfred1> all the way down to sand particles of course
[21:28:00] <jesseg> fascinating
[21:28:04] <jesseg> saved on concrete that way
[21:28:25] <pfred1> well if the section is thick yeah why not?
[21:28:32] <jesseg> I'd like to see the truck they delivered that in :D
[21:28:37] <pfred1> rock is really strong
[21:30:28] <pfred1> concrete is one of the miracle materials that makes our modern civilization possible
[21:31:02] <pfred1> there are issues with it long term though
[21:31:23] <pfred1> like steel reinforcing corroding inside of concrete and breaking it apart
[21:33:17] <jdh> should use Ti rebar
[21:33:37] <pfred1> they hook electricity up to the steel sometimes
[21:33:57] <pfred1> like that stuff they put on ships?
[21:34:06] <pfred1> keeps it from ionizing?
[21:35:01] <Valen> you can get stainless reo, also they are doing fibreglass and plastic coated reo now too
[21:35:34] <pfred1> Valen none of that helps things built long ago without any of that
[21:35:40] <dioz> what is the stuff you use to find cracks in aluminium?
[21:35:48] <dioz> it's a product you spray on and leave for 15-20 minutes
[21:35:49] <Valen> I want to use stainless reo for my concrete house
[21:35:52] <dioz> then you wipe off
[21:35:55] <dioz> and spray another product on
[21:36:00] <Valen> sounds like a die penetration test
[21:36:02] <pfred1> how long yo uexpect to live?
[21:36:06] <jdh> dye penetrant
[21:36:08] <dioz> and it'll show you the extent of the cracks in your aluminium
[21:36:14] <dioz> is that what it's called?
[21:36:18] <dioz> okay i'll google that
[21:36:19] <Valen> another 70 years or so, and my kids for longer than that ;->
[21:36:20] <dioz> thnx
[21:36:22] <pfred1> it takes like 100 years before rot blows out concrete
[21:36:53] <Valen> for the sake of a small price hike on the overall cost having it last a few hundred years seems nice ;->
[21:37:09] <pfred1> stainless is a big price hike over regular rod
[21:37:37] <pfred1> heck just painted rod costs
[21:38:13] <pfred1> also you want the texture so concrete has a grip on the eteel
[21:38:26] <dioz> what's reo?
[21:38:28] <dioz> you me rebar ?
[21:38:30] <dioz> mean
[21:38:50] <Valen> yeah, reo is the australian for it ;->
[21:39:04] <pfred1> here we call it rebar
[21:39:11] <dioz> aah
[21:39:18] <Valen> for the total build the cost of the reo isn't that great a %, wifey likes the idea
[21:39:20] <dioz> pfred1 has me on ignore if yall are wonderin
[21:39:42] <Valen> we also plan on waterproofing the concrete, want to use it as the raw external weather skin
[21:39:51] <pfred1> we build stuff with a life expectancy of 50 years
[21:40:09] <Valen> concrete without steel in it lasts pretty much forever it seems
[21:40:16] <pfred1> after that tech is going to be so advanced it isn't worth keeping the old stuff going anymore
[21:40:18] <Valen> like the roman dome thing
[21:40:36] <pfred1> well until there's an earthquake
[21:40:42] <Valen> <- australia
[21:41:24] <pfred1> you can have an earthquake anywhere
[21:41:30] <Valen> you *can*
[21:41:32] <pfred1> I hado ne here a couple years back
[21:41:39] <pfred1> I thought i was havign a seizure
[21:41:41] <Valen> you can also get hit by a rock from space ;->
[21:42:02] <pfred1> because earthquakes just aren't somethign that happens here
[21:42:18] <Valen> there has been 1 decent one in the time I've been alive
[21:42:30] <pfred1> but something let go in arkansas and it made the ground undulate here
[21:42:46] <Valen> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Newcastle_earthquake 5.6
[21:42:50] <pfred1> the whole ground like swelled up in waves
[21:43:01] <pfred1> I thought i was cracking up
[21:43:14] <pfred1> it was surreal
[21:43:42] <pfred1> that was the quake that damaged the Washington Monument
[21:44:04] <Valen> I ran into a wave that came off that one
[21:44:07] <pfred1> so never say never
[21:44:15] <Valen> we were at the beach, it had been dead flat for the entire day
[21:44:19] <Cromaglious_> using copper in concrete lasts forever... Romans figured that out
[21:44:21] <roycroft> we had a couple 5.x quakes off the coast this morning or yesterday
[21:44:23] <roycroft> i forget when
[21:44:31] <roycroft> too far south of here for me to feel though
[21:44:38] <Valen> then a flat wall of water
[21:44:41] <Valen> it was awesome
[21:44:45] <roycroft> most of our quakes are offshore
[21:44:51] <pfred1> Cromaglious_ the highest money producing mine in the world is a copper mine
[21:44:52] <Valen> I got in trouble because mum was trying to dry me at the time
[21:44:56] <roycroft> between 150 and 300km offshore
[21:45:02] <pfred1> that's how much copper is worth
[21:45:07] <roycroft> 150km, that is
[21:45:20] <Valen> pfred1: doesn't matter where you are in america you are 100x closer to a major fault line than anywhere in australia
[21:45:31] <pfred1> copper is like the junky's gold
[21:45:52] <Cromaglious_> heh... I'm 100 feet from a fault
[21:45:53] <Valen> the odds are such that for all practical purposes it's not something to be concerned about
[21:45:59] <pfred1> I've seen guys on jobs get copepr fever
[21:46:10] <roycroft> we're well past peak copper
[21:46:44] <Cromaglious_> kids were getting $2.20 a pound for scrap copper
[21:46:57] <pfred1> we demoed a place and pulled dump truck loads of big cables out of there
[21:47:02] <Valen> http://www.ga.gov.au/earthquakes/
[21:47:20] <Valen> Cromaglious_: wouldn't copper still corrode?
[21:47:33] <pfred1> copper doesn't expand like steel does
[21:47:52] <Cromaglious_> valen to a point but like pfred says it doesn't expand like iron
[21:48:02] <Valen> ahh
[21:48:13] <pfred1> eyah stuff could be thousandso f years old and just have green dusto n it
[21:48:34] <pfred1> now the India indians made iron that didn't rust
[21:48:50] <pfred1> there's an iron pole in india thousands of eyars old
[21:49:31] <pfred1> well it has a protective black oxide layer on it I think?
[21:49:39] <dioz> black oxide?
[21:49:41] <dioz> how technical
[21:49:54] <pfred1> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_pillar_of_Delhi
[21:50:19] <Cromaglious_> blueing iron is covering it in copper
[21:50:19] <pfred1> ah it was made in 402
[21:50:29] <pfred1> still pretty old
[21:52:54] <pfred1> I guess it is about 1,614 years old now?
[21:53:07] <pfred1> that is some old iron
[21:56:37] <Cromaglious_> and it survived a canonball strike
[21:58:22] <pfred1> it is a strange object
[22:00:26] <witnit> dioz: http://www.mememaker.net/static/images/memes/4021749.jpg
[22:01:15] <dioz> witnit: lol
[22:01:22] <dioz> i seriously h9 u
[22:01:25] <dioz> worse than h8
[22:02:44] <witnit> :)
[22:04:35] <dioz> which country you from witnit ?
[22:05:32] <witnit> far far away land, there are giants here and other horrible beasts you wouldnt like it here
[22:05:41] <dioz> any drywall dust?
[22:05:48] <witnit> its everywhere
[22:06:06] <dioz> fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuggggg that sounds like hell
[22:06:37] <witnit> yes, very much like arizona
[22:06:50] <dioz> oh yah? my gfs parents own a place in arizona
[22:07:05] <witnit> oh lawdy so you have met the beasts?
[22:07:08] <witnit> =D
[22:07:44] <dioz> i don't think so
[22:09:38] <witnit> http://www.diynetwork.com/how-to/rooms-and-spaces/walls-and-ceilings/how-to-repair-drywall-mistakes
[22:10:02] <witnit> just in case :)
[22:11:02] <dioz> oh i hang duct for a living currently
[22:11:09] <dioz> i watch drywallers all day
[22:11:24] <dioz> i'm a tin banger by trade
[22:11:31] <witnit> I bet that makes them uncomfortable
[22:12:08] <witnit> I cant stand drywalling, I think painting is worse tho
[22:12:58] <dioz> well the drywall team is usually broken up into two teams
[22:13:04] <dioz> the guys who do the board and the guys who tape and mud
[22:13:11] <dioz> so that kind of makes it.... less bad IMO
[22:15:41] <dioz> you like picking locks?
[22:16:16] <witnit> This weekend I was around the campfire with some friends and they were talking about iron worker stuff. walking structural beams
[22:16:23] <witnit> im not into that
[22:16:34] <dioz> i used to hang out with a ironworker
[22:16:37] <dioz> he's a coke head though
[22:16:50] <pfred1> a lot of them guys are native American Indians
[22:16:50] <witnit> yeah
[22:16:53] <witnit> these guys were too
[22:16:56] <witnit> strange
[22:16:58] <witnit> :)
[22:17:10] <witnit> coke heads, not indians
[22:17:11] <pfred1> the guys that go on the really high jobs
[22:17:26] <dioz> pin bars and crane work
[22:17:43] <dioz> harnesses and fall protection
[22:18:06] <pfred1> I was working with a scaffolding company and i asked one of the company guysh ow high yo uever been on scaffolding? He said about 4 joints
[22:18:10] <witnit> ski slopes and beam bolts were mostly what I heard about, and apprentices falling
[22:18:46] <pfred1> then hs said he's been on scaffolding 400 frames high
[22:19:30] <pfred1> his company scaffolded the Statue of Liberty among othre things
[22:19:30] <witnit> I dont think I would like the risk of things falling on me all the time
[22:19:55] <pfred1> safeway is about as bi as it gets i nthe world of scaffolding
[22:20:01] <pfred1> big as it gets even
[22:20:28] <pfred1> they have custom laminated planks made for them in sweeden
[22:20:36] <pfred1> they buy them by the boat load
[22:21:17] <pfred1> they're really nice planks
[22:22:18] <witnit> yep, them are some nice planks
[22:22:23] <witnit> they look light
[22:22:31] <pfred1> they're not
[22:22:39] <pfred1> they're heavy as hell in fact
[22:23:42] <pfred1> I well wheeled up a few tractor trailer loads of them so I know
[22:26:33] <dioz> here we just use 2 x 8 planks
[22:26:35] <dioz> HAH jk
[22:26:43] <dioz> no but i've seen some sketchy ass scaffolding in my time
[22:26:46] <dioz> no kickers
[22:26:50] <dioz> no mid guards
[22:26:57] <dioz> no railings
[22:30:36] <witnit> no gusto
[22:33:12] <witnit> if you scroll down this page you can see lots of gusto http://www.australianscaffolds.com.au/contract.html
[22:38:48] <dioz> hah yah that's pretty cray
[23:25:11] <tiwake> anyone make a amorphous metal SLS type rapid prototyping machine?
[23:26:00] <tiwake> http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00339-004-3062-7
[23:26:52] <tiwake> does not look like there are any products being sold
[23:27:30] <tiwake> but maybe?
[23:27:33] <tiwake> donno
[23:40:35] <CaptHindsight> tiwake: putting one together right now
[23:40:48] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: oooo
[23:41:02] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: how much do those cost?
[23:41:10] <tiwake> or should I build my own
[23:41:40] <CaptHindsight> I don't think that there are any commercial ones for under $100k
[23:41:55] <tiwake> so 150k?
[23:42:26] <CaptHindsight> there might be some toy versions for less that use the maker/reprap quality parts
[23:43:01] <Erant> tiwake: Shapeways uses them. They sinter steel and then fill with bronze, I believe.
[23:43:31] <tiwake> screw cheap garbage
[23:43:44] <CaptHindsight> tiwake: how much you can build one for depends on your bargain hunting skills
[23:44:20] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: it would depend on size of the machine, for sure
[23:44:33] <CaptHindsight> new lasers aren't cheap
[23:44:34] <Erant> What's this 'high feed machining' I've been reading about? I thought the whole trochoidal milling was the new hotness?
[23:44:56] <CaptHindsight> same for galvo heads
[23:45:04] <tiwake> yeah
[23:45:25] <tiwake> mirrors, lenses, etc.
[23:48:27] <CaptHindsight> plus you want a gas tight chamber, powder spreader, heater etc
[23:48:55] <tiwake> you want a heater for amorphous metal SLSing?
[23:50:57] <CaptHindsight> heater/dryer