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[02:37:00] <Deejay> moin
[02:53:39] <Cromaglious_> morning
[04:48:59] <nikre> can anyone suggest what specs to consider for a brushless motor (drone type) used as a pcb mill spindle?
[04:50:23] <archivist> nikre, only one that can be taken apart yo mount the core on an er spindle, or make your own, or belt drive
[04:51:41] <nikre> there are specs for motors that i don't understand much. KV=kilo-volt? what would be the ideal torque and speed for pcb milling?
[04:51:59] <nikre> or where can i find such info
[04:52:26] <nikre> archivist, there are motors with 8mm rods
[04:53:05] <archivist> eg
http://www.raynerd.co.uk/brushless-dc-motor-cnc-high-speed-spindle/
[04:53:10] <nikre> if i can change the rod i can go with a belt or directly connect the spindle rod
[04:53:17] <nikre> as u said
[04:54:29] <archivist> the spindle is the key component in pcb milling
[04:56:34] <archivist> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/benchtop-machines/12184-cnc-manufacturing-engineering-5.html
[05:00:49] <nikre> ty archivist
[05:17:22] <SpeedEvil> kv = speed per volt
[05:17:31] <SpeedEvil> 1000= 1000RPM per volt (max)
[05:17:53] <SpeedEvil> ah
[05:18:00] <SpeedEvil> It's probably mentioned in the above
[05:18:05] <SpeedEvil> I should read backscroll
[05:42:39] <LeelooMinai> A guy milling some touch plate thingy:
http://i.imgur.com/FQlVULC.jpg Question: is there a way to get a surface like that (in a pocket), finsidhed better (ie without those tool marks)
[05:43:36] <SpeedEvil> It is unclear as to the finish - the finish may actually be excellent
[05:43:53] <SpeedEvil> though it looks too disturbed actually
[05:44:23] <SpeedEvil> More rigid tooling, more rigid bed, light finishing pass.
[05:44:28] <SpeedEvil> Or paint.
[05:44:32] <LeelooMinai> Right, I guess it could be decend to touch, but still - it has this pattern that is clearly visible under right light conditions.
[05:45:07] <LeelooMinai> Kind of wondering if there are polishing tools that can be attached to the spindle.
[05:45:32] <SpeedEvil> It dpeends what's being done
[05:45:53] <SpeedEvil> If it's done a full depth cut, for example, that's the worst case
[05:47:05] <XXCoder> yeah i have seen finish like silk but looks like it should feel like sandpaper
[05:47:27] <XXCoder> though that one im slightly sure is actually rougher?
[05:48:47] <archivist> milled finish is milled
[05:49:18] <archivist> you then need a finishing operation, look up lapping
[05:50:04] <LeelooMinai> The question is if this can be done with cnc
[05:50:26] <archivist> sometimes often not
[05:51:03] <XXCoder> lee how does surface feel like?
[05:51:17] <LeelooMinai> I wondered in the past if a small spinning polishing wheel with a spring could be used in the spindle.
[05:51:24] <archivist> I use wet&dry and various micron papers for the finish suitable for clockwork
[05:51:35] <LeelooMinai> XXCoder: I don't know - i cannot feel the finish through youtube:p
[05:51:43] <XXCoder> ah thought it was yours.
[05:52:09] <archivist> mirror finish is not that hard to get
[05:52:34] <LeelooMinai> By hand sure, but I was not asking that.
[05:53:40] <archivist> lapping machines for automatic polish cost a bomb
[05:54:25] <archivist> big problem is rounded edges with a sprung tool
[05:57:33] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, maybe then non-sprung, but very flast
[05:57:36] <LeelooMinai> flat*
[05:57:54] <LeelooMinai> And tiny z-steps
[05:59:28] <archivist> basically it is a grinding process, coarse to fine
[06:00:33] <SpeedEvil> CNC in the bible.
[06:00:43] <archivist> some us a powder/paste and a solid "polisher" often soft enough to take some of the powder, eg copper
[06:00:44] <SpeedEvil> hough the mills of God grind slowly; Yet they grind exceeding small;
[07:37:44] <gregcnc> leeloominai get a tumblr
[07:37:50] <gregcnc> tumbler even
[07:38:55] <gregcnc> Nikre, unless you want to build a spindle buy one.
[07:43:41] <nikre> gregcnc, i will try my cheap chinese spindle again before attempting a new one. the current one is 12k rpm and has more runout then it is supposed to have for pcb milling.
[07:44:03] <gregcnc> can you do better making one?
[07:44:12] <gregcnc> True the taper
[07:45:10] <gregcnc> that outrunner type isn't too much work
[07:45:42] <gregcnc> I built this, and it was a lot of work.
http://www.dieselrc.com/projects/cncspindle/
[07:45:45] <nikre> gregcnc, i will follow a design instead of doing from scratch or buy a new spindle asu said.
[07:45:50] <archivist> there is a book Spindles Harpit Sandhu Special Interest Model Books Ltd, bit out dated
[07:46:50] <archivist> it has some designs in it
[07:48:26] <gregcnc> You can true your spindle by mounting a carbide boring vertically in the table. Write a program to correct the taper as needed.
[07:49:48] <archivist> I had fun doing the external taper on the chuck mount for vertical drill
[07:49:49] <gregcnc> light cuts you just want a couple dusting passes
[07:50:03] <nikre> gregcnc, could there also be other sources resulting in runout like bearing housing?
[07:50:17] <gregcnc> crappy bearings
[07:50:33] <nikre> it has most probably crappy bearings too
[07:50:40] <gregcnc> housing, if the bearings are loose
[07:51:01] <gregcnc> real spindles have real spindle bearings
[07:51:23] <gregcnc> but for pcb milling you can use anything
[07:51:55] <gregcnc> indicate the taper, if true buy decent collets
[07:52:41] <nikre> hmm my collets are cheap chinese ones too :)
[07:52:49] <gregcnc> I find that for ER type the collets and the nut have a big influence on runout
[07:53:25] <archivist> else grind your own bits after tightening in the spindle
[07:53:41] <archivist> they will be true then
[07:55:07] <archivist> we used to sharpen out engraving bits on
http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2008/2008_10_07_Richards_of_Burton_clockworks/P1010214.JPG
[07:55:08] <nikre> these are great knowledge! i can buy a new collet right away. the taper needs more effort but i can have it done i guess.
[07:55:24] <archivist> out our
[07:56:12] <gregcnc> check the taper with a .0001"/ micron indicator
[07:57:24] <nikre> greg what would be an acceptable deviation on the indicator?
[07:58:48] <archivist> as little as possible
[08:01:22] <gregcnc> good tools can be 3 micron TIR on the tool itself. with standard bearings you'll have more that that in bearing alone
[08:01:31] <gregcnc> check to see what you have and try to improve
[08:01:49] <gregcnc> that's all you can do without getting expensive
[08:03:07] <gregcnc> i don't know what is possible with those china spindles
[08:06:31] <sync> you can usually grind the taper to spec
[08:06:37] <sync> and then they are not as shitty
[08:10:46] <nikre> tyvm! great info. i will follow it.
[09:10:15] <MacGalempsy> =D
[09:14:27] <MacGalempsy> Hello
[09:25:29] <archivist> MacGalempsy_, pssst wanna buy a generator cheeeep, might cost a bit to ship
[09:26:24] <JT-Shop> pick up only lol
[09:27:23] <archivist> more amps that you will ever need
[09:36:01] <JT-Shop> dang I can't even send an email to Gene it keeps failing to send
[09:45:08] * Loetmichel_ just repaired his Chinese CNC6040... 3 of four M8 bolts that hold the spindle hang on the last half thread... that happens if you cut the m8 threads only 6mm deep into extruded aluminium and hope that holds any load... but compliment to the "helicoil" clones ("V-Coil")... works very well, i was able to tighten the bolts to the desired torque for m8 87,8 screws... and they are easy to
[09:45:08] * Loetmichel_ work with! ;)
[09:46:32] <MacGalempsy_> archivist: lol. sure.
[09:47:00] <MacGalempsy_> better be a nice deal :D
[09:47:04] <Loetmichel_> -7
[09:48:13] <MacGalempsy_> Loetmichel_: nice work. are you back up and running?
[09:49:12] <Loetmichel_> yes
[09:49:37] <Loetmichel_> getting the spindle back into right angle was more work than repairing the 4 threads
[09:52:13] <MacGalempsy> everytime a new game starts, I get kicked....
[09:52:19] <archivist> MacGalempsy, 100A per phase 240 to star point 440 between phases, 6 cyl diesel, effin heavy and wrong side of the pond
[09:53:01] <MacGalempsy> wow. that would relive the need for the power company
[09:53:12] <MacGalempsy> just a lot of diesel. is it on a lorry?
[09:54:27] <archivist> same engine as used in a lorry
http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=generator+pd+05+2005
[09:59:31] <Loetmichel_> archivist: you can supply a whole street with that ;)
[10:00:10] <archivist> Loetmichel_, it was a standby at a museum
[10:00:39] <archivist> then I got it used it at another museum for a while as main power
[10:03:15] <Loetmichel_> hmm, on the account of repairing the CNC mill... anyone knows how to clean out the biofilm in the cooling system of an 800W cinese HF spindle?
[10:03:40] <Loetmichel_> NaOH is out of the question, the inner cooling jacket of the spindle is aluminium
[10:04:28] <archivist> use every type of kitchen cleaner neat, not watered down
[10:04:56] <MacGalempsy> this is the one I like
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Beautiful-MEP-805B-30KW-Diesel-Military-Tactical-Quiet-Generator-L3-Low-Hours-/252541659184?hash=item3acca7e830:g:5oMAAOSwZVlXwehG
[10:06:14] <MacGalempsy> hey, could I get someone to take a look at my resume for some 3rd party review?
[10:06:21] <gregcnc> are you going to run your shop off grid?
[10:07:23] <MacGalempsy> takes 20KW to run just a 41A plastic machine
[10:08:28] <archivist> getting a really silent one would be better for home
[10:08:49] <gregcnc> run some extension cords to your neighbors
[10:09:08] <MacGalempsy> problem is it needs to be 3 phase
[10:09:19] <gregcnc> phase perfect
[10:09:24] <MacGalempsy> so it was like 3k for the converter and another 1200 for transformers
[10:09:53] <archivist> it might be cheaper to ask the utility to give you 3 phase
[10:09:53] <MacGalempsy> make shift 3 phase by getting lines form neighbors on each side, and make my own delta config
[10:10:19] <gregcnc> you need 480 3 phase?
[10:10:37] <MacGalempsy> 460 for the drill press and 208 for the plastic machine
[10:11:38] <archivist> rewire the drill press for 208 so both are on the same voltage
[10:11:54] <MacGalempsy> cannot do it, the motor is inside case
[10:12:00] <archivist> reconnect star to delta inside the motor
[10:12:29] <MacGalempsy> with that generator, it has all the transformers built in
[10:12:38] <archivist> just have to take them out and dismember!
[10:12:57] <MacGalempsy> there is a guy in Missouri (not JT) that has a trailer gen with the stepdown/stepup
[10:13:09] <MacGalempsy> transformer
[10:13:31] <MacGalempsy> so what do you think is easier to sell used, the generator or the rotory converter and transformers
[10:13:36] <gregcnc> how friendly are your neighbors?
[10:14:25] <MacGalempsy> heh. only met one and he is a red neck
[10:14:42] <JT-Shop> have you checked into having a plastic company just make them for you?
[10:16:02] <MacGalempsy> I have not.
[10:16:49] <MacGalempsy> things are kind of up in the air right now, so the plan is to continue to work with the CNC and EDM and see how things go
[10:17:29] <MacGalempsy> got the EDM almost 100% yesterday. cannot seem to get fluid to go through the manifold. but everything else works
[10:17:40] <MacGalempsy> it fills up
[10:18:16] <MacGalempsy> mi9ght be the solenoid
[10:18:33] <gregcnc> 20kW at 240V single phase is 145A, not including converter and transformer
[10:23:50] <MacGalempsy_> maybe my numbers are off 208v*41A= 8528
[10:24:33] <MacGalempsy_> 460*5 = 2300, so 10282W
[10:24:40] <gregcnc> that's not terrible
[10:24:51] <MacGalempsy_> double for 1.5 for startup is about 15kw
[10:25:00] <MacGalempsy_> oops
[10:25:26] <MacGalempsy_> the reason I looked at the 30kw is that it is cheaper than a 20 or 15kw
[10:25:56] <gregcnc> why would you want to deal with a genset when you could just plug in a converter?
[10:26:21] <MacGalempsy_> because the converter is the same price
[10:26:41] <MacGalempsy_> and the genset is easier to move
[10:28:15] <gregcnc> digital phase converter is the way to go
[10:29:34] <MacGalempsy_> the resistive bands take 25HP the motor takes 20HP. so rotory is the only thing big enough at 50HP
[10:29:55] <MacGalempsy_> that is what the sales guy said anyways from the numbers
[10:30:06] <gregcnc> which salesguy?
[10:30:18] <MacGalempsy_> at american rotoray
[10:30:35] <MacGalempsy_> 2 times the capacity for hydraulics 3 times the capacity for resitiyve
[10:30:36] <gregcnc> yeah he wants to sell a rotary, but at that size digital is expensive
[10:31:19] <gregcnc> is this the same 208v-21A machine?
[10:31:27] <gregcnc> 41A
[10:31:31] <MacGalempsy_> yeah.
[10:31:53] <MacGalempsy_> so the short story at this point is it may be best to perfect the use of the 2 tools I have now
[10:32:02] <MacGalempsy_> and keep looking for a solution.
[10:32:13] <gregcnc> how does it add up to 50HP?
[10:33:05] <gregcnc> 8.5kW is 11HP
[10:34:48] <gregcnc> http://www.phasetechnologies.com/products/phase-perfect/specifications
[10:34:56] <MacGalempsy_> it adds up to 45
[10:35:18] <gregcnc> how if it's rated 21A?
[10:35:20] <MacGalempsy_> because for stable startup they they want to double and triple values
[10:35:31] <gregcnc> yeah the rotary guy
[10:35:47] <MacGalempsy_> 14.5 A on the resistive end and 26.5 on the hydrauilic end
[10:35:50] <gregcnc> these are switched by contactors or VFD?
[10:39:07] <MacGalempsy_> no vfd
[10:39:08] <archivist> you do need overhead for start up
[10:39:10] <gregcnc> oversizing rotary converters makes up for their shortcomings, mainly unbalance
[10:39:42] <gregcnc> I bet the 10HP digital converter woudl have no trouble at all.
[10:40:05] <archivist> also depends on type of rotary, a real one, motor generator, or a crappy false phase one
[10:40:25] <gregcnc> ??
[10:40:51] <archivist> crappy ones are a single motor
[10:41:20] <gregcnc> the only kind we see here are three phase motors driven by single phase, with generated leg
[10:41:53] <gregcnc> nobody wants to pay for two motors
[10:42:22] <MacGalempsy_> gregcnc: that is the type they recommended
[10:42:30] <MacGalempsy_> well. all that seller had
[10:42:42] <gregcnc> that's all there is in the US.
[10:43:28] <archivist> a real motor generator with sensible flywheel can handle the overload
[10:43:29] <gregcnc> I almost bought a 15HP AR this summer. Spent the extra cash and got a used PT-330, don't regret and would do again
[10:43:55] <gregcnc> I think they tried to sell me a 20HP
[10:44:02] <gregcnc> for a 6HP machine
[10:45:35] <MacGalempsy_> I thought a 15hp or 20hp would work, but apparently not
[10:46:23] <gregcnc> What does the 50HP rotary draw with no load?
[10:46:40] <MacGalempsy_> 71 amps of single phase
[10:46:53] <MacGalempsy_> 240v
[10:46:54] <archivist> no load not full
[10:47:02] <MacGalempsy_> oh, no ida
[10:49:29] <gregcnc> 15A or so
[10:52:01] <MacGalempsy> time to go out and continue cleaning the shop.
[11:14:56] <CaptHindsight> came across a deal on a 8 ton forklift, now I need a deal on a matching trailer
[11:15:47] <JT-Shop> I need a part deburring tumbler
[11:16:09] <jdh> make one!
[11:16:25] <CaptHindsight> JT-Shop: your production volume rising?
[11:28:21] <archivist> how big is your land, the tumbler needs to be far far away, they are noisy
[11:36:04] <MacGalempsy_> would a bullet casing tumbler work?
[11:36:36] <gregcnc> I've seen guys in a room with 4, 4' diamter tumblrs without ear protection so they can't be that loud
[11:37:11] <CaptHindsight> depends on the frequency and design
[11:37:16] <archivist> ours at the clockworks had wooden sides
[11:37:55] <MacGalempsy_> JT-Shop: how big?
[11:38:06] <gregcnc> well my ears hurt as I walked by
[11:38:42] <gregcnc> maybe they were already deaf
[11:40:17] <MacGalempsy_> lol
[11:41:23] <MacGalempsy_> anyone know if there is a linuxcnc group on FB?
[11:42:41] <archivist> ew
[11:43:21] <archivist> not a place I would frequent
[11:43:55] <MacGalempsy_> i figured you would not. no google, no flickr.
[11:51:12] <MacGalempsy> so I got a call yesterday from a friend in OKC that said the company he is working for is looking to need more help. so I update the resume and send it his way. today I asked about a timeline and it was like... well....
[11:53:43] <JT-Shop> big enough to deburr a 12" long part
[11:54:08] <archivist> bench/angle grinder
[11:54:15] <JT-Shop> http://spyderstore.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=60&product_id=51
[11:54:55] <MacGalempsy> long file
[11:56:12] <archivist> you can do something in seconds on a buffing wheel, that takes an age to not be right in a tumbler
[11:56:49] <MacGalempsy> JT-Shop: are you powdercoating those?
[11:57:09] <JT-Shop> I use a conditioning belt on them now
[11:57:11] <JT-Shop> yea
[11:57:23] <MacGalempsy> that looks nice and professional
[11:57:42] <MacGalempsy> going to offer mounts that go with that?
[11:57:44] <JT-Shop> I get them laser cut out
[11:57:54] <JT-Shop> yea I offer the complete line
[11:58:20] <archivist> you would need the abrasive "stones" in a tumbler and may need to run it a few times, coarse/med/fine
[11:59:38] <JT-Shop> mainly need to deburr the edges and the holes
[11:59:49] <JT-Shop> I blast the part before powder coat
[12:05:25] <MacGalempsy> FYI there are a lot of dashmounts on Thingiverse
[12:06:00] <JT-Shop> for a Spyder?
[12:06:53] <MacGalempsy> as in cellphone, cupholder, etc
[12:06:57] <CaptHindsight> MacGalempsy: any that include a faux mustache?
[12:06:59] <MacGalempsy> addone to your mount
[12:07:18] <MacGalempsy> you. just have to add it :)
[12:07:37] <MacGalempsy> :[D
[12:15:15] <JT-Shop> I use Ram Mounts
[12:18:25] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DObsRslyJJo
[12:18:34] <SpeedEvil> Machinist 1942
[12:32:46] <Cromaglious_> love the phrase 'you can get a fairly good job'
[12:33:55] <Cromaglious_> that film would never work on kids today.. 'start at the bottom' you could never tell a kid that today
[12:34:28] <kyle____> the bottom is owned by the top, and the top doesn't want them trying to crawl up to kick them off
[12:35:07] <Cromaglious_> so true
[12:38:31] <IchGucksLive> hi
[12:39:04] <IchGucksLive> Loetmichel_: bist du da ?
[12:39:08] <Cromaglious_> moin
[12:39:56] <IchGucksLive> people only want sculps now
[12:43:35] <Cromaglious_> heh pretty much...
[12:43:56] <MacGalempsy_> sculps?
[12:44:08] <Cromaglious_> sculptured items
[12:44:23] <Cromaglious_> formed with artistry
[12:44:27] <MacGalempsy_> ok
[12:45:58] <Cromaglious_> haven't you notices nuts on things are getting prettier, flanged, rounded ends, ...
[12:46:01] <IchGucksLive> yes in foam or in sika
[12:46:15] <JT-Shop> MacGalempsy_: the cat has been declawed...
[12:46:29] <IchGucksLive> the shop looks like a carpenter yellow chips all over
[12:46:40] <MacGalempsy_> lol. sounds like its your cat now
[12:46:51] <MacGalempsy_> how is it supposed to eat the chipmunk?
[12:46:59] <IchGucksLive> the mashine only makes 500mm/min at that velocity i coudt do 15.000 i guess
[12:47:02] <JT-Shop> it still has teeth
[12:47:02] <Cromaglious_> declawed? I could never do that to a cat
[12:47:18] <Cromaglious_> I'd rather buy a new couch
[12:47:28] <JT-Shop> can't let it inside the other cat is male and they would fight
[12:47:41] <JT-Shop> stray cat showed up the other day
[12:47:47] <Cromaglious_> denutting I have no problems with
[12:48:13] <JT-Shop> have not checked that yet lol
[12:48:22] <Cromaglious_> but if the male cat is over a year old... they'll be a tom for the rest of their life.
[12:49:04] <Cromaglious_> actually about 10months... if you can denut them around that time they'll stay kittenish
[12:49:15] <MacGalempsy_> id rather take the cat down to the neighbors and drop it off
[12:50:13] <Cromaglious_> I like lapwarmers, I might have to put on heavier clothes because of kneading...
[12:50:49] <MacGalempsy> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37426664
[12:50:55] <MacGalempsy> saw this on the bbc this morning
[12:51:02] <MacGalempsy> crazy kiwis
[12:51:20] <MacGalempsy> sold for 500 poinds
[12:53:54] <Cromaglious_> $306USD
[12:53:59] <Cromaglious_> 500nzd
[12:54:19] <Cromaglious_> loce that purrrse
[12:55:55] <Cromaglious_> yep gonna have to build an enclosure for the 3040.... with a recirc coolant tank...
[12:57:01] <Cromaglious_> fitting end for a spinner cat..
[12:57:25] <MacGalempsy> next thing you will see are the chinese knockoffs
[12:57:32] <MacGalempsy> except they were not roadkill
[12:58:07] <Cromaglious_> used to find road kill squirrels, rabbits, etc... flat as could be... you could pick them up and flying them like a frisbee
[12:58:18] <IchGucksLive> Cromaglious_: get better bits and then mill Alu without coolent
[12:58:22] <IchGucksLive> use helix
[12:59:01] <IchGucksLive> im off im so hungry and tiered today has been so hard
[12:59:05] <IchGucksLive> bye
[12:59:06] <Cromaglious_> IchGucksLive, rather use coolant to wash chips away than air which threw them everywhere..
[12:59:21] <IchGucksLive> ;-)
[13:00:06] <MacGalempsy> yep. my favorite roadkill is the armadillo, kids will prop them up on the side of the road and put a beer can in the grip
[13:00:16] <MacGalempsy> looks like its drinkin a beer on the side of the road
[13:10:35] <gregcnc> when did google throttle searchtempest?
[13:14:29] <DaViruz> anyone know where i can pick up a ready built linear unit with stepper motor? about 100-150mm stroke (4-6")
[13:14:32] <DaViruz> https://www.damencnc.com/en/assemblies/linear-motion/ballscrew-lsm-modules
[13:14:39] <DaViruz> something along the lines of that, but shorter
[13:14:46] <Erant> What's it for?
[13:15:23] <DaViruz> z axis for a waterjet
[13:15:39] <Erant> 'linear actuator' on eBay seems to come up with a bunch.
[13:15:43] <DaViruz> it only has manual adjustment at the moment
[13:15:45] <DaViruz> oh.
[13:16:16] <Erant> Or linear actuator stepper, to be more precise.
[13:17:36] <DaViruz> hm mostly used one offs, i would prefer a reliable source
[13:18:01] <DaViruz> the machine has three cutting heads, idealy they need one each
[13:19:01] <enleth> Erant: if you're in EU, Item sells those, although they're stupidly expensive
[13:19:01] <Erant> Thomson makes 'm too, if you're not as concerned about cost.
[13:19:12] <enleth> ah damn
[13:19:15] <enleth> DaViruz: ^
[13:19:17] <Erant> ;)
[13:19:32] <DaViruz> i am somewhat concerned about cost, but not overly
[13:19:45] <Erant> thomsonlinear.com
[13:19:50] <enleth> I think Bosch Rexroth makes just about the same thing too
[13:19:56] <DaViruz> the guy bought a fully functional waterjet for 2400 eur
[13:20:04] <Erant> They make good ballscrews too.
[13:20:12] <Erant> That's... cheap as shit.
[13:20:15] <DaViruz> yeah
[13:20:28] <DaViruz> that's like a tenth of the price for just the pump
[13:20:32] <DaViruz> used
[13:20:47] <DaViruz> there is some margin for modernizing it :)
[13:21:10] <DaViruz> enleth: what's Item?
[13:21:25] <enleth> DaViruz: no idea about Bosch, but with Item you just use their design/catalogue/ordering software or CAD plugin or website to design a linear actuator of any arbitrary length and they'll just send you the parts
[13:21:47] <enleth> DaViruz:
http://www.item24.com/
[13:22:03] <DaViruz> i know i've seen a lot of linear modules in the past, but now i can't really find a single one
[13:22:13] <DaViruz> except for the pricey ones
[13:23:00] <DaViruz> it really doesn't need to be very good
[13:23:05] <enleth> DaViruz: they make 8020-like aluminum extrusions and some interesting mechanical parts based on those, including linear systems
[13:23:57] <enleth> you could probably build a whole assembly line using their parts almost exclusively
[13:24:20] <enleth> it would be expensive as fuck though, even for an assembly line
[13:24:21] <DaViruz> intriguing
[13:25:39] <Loetmichel_> enleth: problem with all Extrusion based aluminium profiles: they are inherently bent
[13:25:46] <DaViruz> i may just go with the damencnc one, it's a bit bulkier than it needs to be, but it'll probably be fine
[13:26:02] <DaViruz> the bellows are a plus, waterjet tends to be.. messy
[13:26:12] <Loetmichel_> there is simply NO WAY you dont get a "banana" with extrusion of aluminium
[13:26:39] <Loetmichel_> and on top if that aluminium alloys that are able to be extruded are usually weak an malleable
[13:30:54] <enleth> Loetmichel_: well, yes, that's just something to take into account when using this stuff or deciding whether to use it
[13:31:03] <enleth> Loetmichel_: at least with a good vendor you have the numbers
[13:31:17] <CaptHindsight> DaViruz: what level of accuracy, reliability, straightness, repeatability etc do you require?
[13:31:33] <enleth> item lists detailed specs of their extrusions
[13:31:41] <enleth> and I'd expect them to keep those specs
[13:32:12] <CaptHindsight> what speeds and what are the loads? That's how you spec a positioner
[13:34:09] <gregcnc> any inexpensive sources for small (1/4") solid carbide boring bars? Internaltool is reasonable at 23usd
[13:34:13] <DaViruz> accuracy, straightness, repeatability within 1mm (+/- .5mm), speed is pretty much a non issue
[13:34:23] <DaViruz> straightness as well
[13:35:08] <CaptHindsight> DaViruz: and you want a standard part that you can reorder vs used from fleabay?
[13:35:24] <DaViruz> yeah
[13:36:03] <CaptHindsight> in the EU?
[13:36:08] <enleth> DaViruz: be careful, some joker just might send you a banana-shaped positioner now
[13:36:28] <DaViruz> and i would like to see the price directly, not having to much around with invoice requests
[13:36:43] <DaViruz> CaptHindsight: as long as i can get it to sweden, anywhere is fine
[13:37:38] <CaptHindsight> http://openbuildspartstore.com/v-slot-nema-17-linear-actuator-bundle-lead-screw/
[13:38:33] <DaViruz> maybe i should have mentioned that it needs to be fairly well sealed or at least dirt tolerant
[13:38:46] <CaptHindsight> details details
[13:39:03] <DaViruz> though that was a very cost effective model
[13:39:20] <CaptHindsight> you set a pretty low bar for specs
[13:39:48] <DaViruz> the rest of the machine uses these for positioning
[13:39:51] <DaViruz> https://www.isel.com/en/linear-units-les6.html
[13:40:17] <CaptHindsight> isel is better than your specs
[13:40:25] <DaViruz> though i think they are hideously expensive
[13:40:26] <DaViruz> yeah
[13:40:49] <CaptHindsight> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-parts/z-axis-slider
[13:41:38] <CaptHindsight> hey gets them direct from China, you can find them on aliblahblah
[13:41:55] <DaViruz> that'd work. fairly straight forward to install bellows on
[13:43:28] <enleth> oh, doesn't igus make integrated positioners too?
[13:43:38] <CaptHindsight> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-China-200mm-Effective-Stoke-Linear-Slide-With-Motor-From-Factory/32591351179.html
[13:44:01] <CaptHindsight> yeah, Igus, but they will cost more as well and have better specs
[13:44:22] <DaViruz> the whole machine runs on really wimpy steppers. i'm quite surprised someone installed them in a expensive piece of kit like waterjet
[13:44:35] <CaptHindsight> just add bellows ^^
[13:44:46] <CaptHindsight> or use a screw actuator
[13:44:51] <DaViruz> cost up to $1k or so isn't much of on issue i believe
[13:45:28] <enleth> DaViruz: as for bellows, look for local suppliers, you should be able to find a small company making machine bellows to order
[13:45:42] <DaViruz> the usage of the stepper bearings for the lead screw is a little disconcerting
[13:46:03] <CaptHindsight> now you're getting picky
[13:46:24] <CaptHindsight> it's all these little things that add up
[13:46:30] <DaViruz> i guess i did set the bar pretty low initially
[13:47:07] <CaptHindsight> https://www.zoro.com/duff-norton-linear-actuator-12vdc-100-lb-12-in-tmd01-1906-12/i/G1353737/
[13:47:18] <CaptHindsight> these are easily sealed with a bellows
[13:47:26] <CaptHindsight> and they have them with steppers
[13:48:29] <DaViruz> i need more than the actuator bit though. it does need to be a complete axis with ways so to speak
[13:48:49] <DaViruz> i am actually quite fond of the aliexpress unit..
[13:51:19] <CaptHindsight> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1993147?spm=2114.10010108.0.29.DYia8Y
[13:52:41] <kyle____> wonder if i'll have focusing issues if i build a new, larger enclosure for my crappy chinese laser cutter
[13:52:56] <CaptHindsight> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-Precision-Linear-Modules-effective-stroke-200mm-2-MGN12-350MM-1-SFU1204-350MM-1-NEMA-23/32566751163.html this ones made a bit better
[13:52:58] <DaViruz> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Free-shipping-150mm-China-65Kg-Load-Linear-Slide-For-Engraving/1993147_32589884930.html?spm=2114.8147860.0.108.TWtK0U
[13:53:00] <Deejay> re
[13:53:11] <DaViruz> that one has a fairly reasonable bearing arrangement
[13:53:56] <kyle____> i would think backlash isn't much of a big deal on a laser cutter since there's very little momentum in the "cutting head"...
[13:53:57] <DaViruz> CaptHindsight: oh. that one looks just about perfect
[13:54:13] <nikre> hong yi is reliable seller
[13:54:20] <CaptHindsight> I'll leave you to it...
[13:54:34] <DaViruz> CaptHindsight: thanks a bunch
[13:55:19] <CaptHindsight> I have a used source that is about the same price but 10-100x better
[13:55:49] <CaptHindsight> but limited supply and options
[13:56:14] <DaViruz> i'm not averse to used, but i would need two or three identical
[14:00:29] <CaptHindsight> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/314742
[14:01:36] <DaViruz> oh. even better
[14:03:35] <CaptHindsight> on ebay used look for IAI corp
[14:04:01] <CaptHindsight> and don't confuse their pneumatics with ballscrew positioners
[14:04:40] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/IAI-Intelligent-Actuator-DS-S5L-150-BR-CR-Screw-Actuator-150mm-Travel-/182182867573
[14:05:23] <DaViruz> air connection for keeping dirt out?
[14:05:34] <CaptHindsight> 4 available
http://www.ebay.com/itm/IAI-INTELLIGENT-LINEAR-ACTUATOR-RCP2-SA5-I-PM-3-200-P1-N-SR-SP-200mm-Stroke-/252518850478
[14:08:43] <DaViruz> quite wimpy load ratings though. i'm not sure how heavy the cutting head is, but probably >5kg
[14:10:36] <DaViruz> also only specifications for axial play, none for radial. possible intended to be used with external linear bearings?
[14:12:37] <CaptHindsight> Hiwin is the next step up and you're probably looking at $1200+
[14:13:34] <DaViruz> i think the bst automation one on aliexpress is the winner
[14:20:28] <nikre> what is g54 g92 difference?
[14:21:55] <JT-Shop> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gcode/g-code.html#gcode:g54-g59.3
[14:22:04] <JT-Shop> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gcode/g-code.html#gcode:g92
[14:23:23] <JT-Shop> G54-G59.3 Select Coordinate System
[14:23:39] <JT-Shop> G92 makes the current point have the coordinates you want (without motion), where the axis words contain the axis numbers you want.
[14:23:54] <JT-Shop> When G92 is executed, the origins of all coordinate systems move.
[14:25:08] <nikre> i know 92 but 54 seems to provide the same. is 5x just multiple records of origins?
[14:28:19] <nikre> the default origin is 54 and 55+ are available for multipiece works i guess
[14:32:00] <CaptHindsight> DaViruz: no online pricing but PBC Linear falls in between there as well
http://www.pbclinear.com/Pages/AllProducts
[14:32:49] <CaptHindsight> lower cost, lessor specs than Hiwin, made in USA, and a few choices of linear bearings
[14:33:41] <CaptHindsight> I'm guessimating $500-1K for your range of travel
[14:35:31] <CaptHindsight> looking over some past quotes closer to $500
[14:46:31] <JT-Shop> cat 1 squirrel 0
[14:54:05] <Deejay> not enough for barbecue
[14:54:38] <andypugh> Send the cat out for more?
[14:57:27] <Deejay> yes ;)
[14:59:17] <andypugh> The plant I am working at in Turkey has cats. They seem happy cats, if lean. I can’t imagine folk letting cats run wild at a UK factory, they would be whisked off to the RSPCA immediately. Almost certainly not making happier cats.
[15:01:48] <Crom_> cat are probably the vermin patrol
[15:03:22] <andypugh> Indeed. I don’t see any poison traps, like we have at home.
[15:04:23] <DaViruz> andypugh: booked for the alps this winter!
[15:04:46] <DaViruz> now if just this silly autumn could pass..
[15:05:36] <andypugh> DaViruz: Where and when?
[15:06:58] <Crom_> probably because poison traps cost money and the cats are free
[15:09:13] <andypugh> I can’t help feeling that the cats are a better solution.
[15:10:01] <DaViruz> saalbach, mars 17 + 9 days
[15:10:13] <Crom_> cats don't catch fleas... they harbor them
[15:10:24] <DaViruz> not my first choice perhaps, but it was convenient
[15:10:32] <DaViruz> march *
[15:10:36] <andypugh> Actually, I rather feel that the whole concept of “Vermin” (and “weeds”) is unduly judgemental. I really quite like rats. More than the local children, anyway.
[15:10:39] <Crom_> then there is the cat piss and cat poop
[15:11:37] <andypugh> Not been to Saalbach
[15:12:33] <DaViruz> most people seems to say it's mostly for partying, less for skiing
[15:12:52] <Crom_> if there is areas set aside for cat business and they put flea collars on them, I'm happy to have cats in industrial or retail locations.
[15:14:00] <Crom_> My wife worked in a hardware store with a store cat. during business hours the cat was in his large cage with water food toys litterbox. at night he had the run of the store
[15:14:10] <andypugh> DaViruz: The valley has a lot going for it in other respects, too. Sadly, reliably good snow isn't one of them. The snowmaking is good enough to make a midwinter visit here a fairly safe bet, but problems can arise as spring approaches.
[15:15:38] <andypugh> Crom_: The vet my family used used to have a “Practice Cat” which I thought was a delightfully ambiguous description.
[15:15:51] <DaViruz> meaning late march is a bit late?
[15:16:05] <Crom_> now that's funny...
[15:16:13] <andypugh> Possibly.
[15:16:38] <andypugh> But it’s Autria. You will be forced to have fun regardless :-)
[15:16:56] <DaViruz> it's a travel agency that sort of specializes in ski trips, i hope they know what they're doing :)
[15:17:37] <DaViruz> owned by a friends family coincidentally
[15:17:43] <enleth> 7i76E ordered, there's a chance that ORAC will be back in working order next month
[15:18:25] <DaViruz> that reminds me, i need to order some mesa gear for the waterjet as well
[15:19:24] <andypugh> DaViruz: Solden is probably similar, and March is actually peak snow-depth:
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/snowreports/historical/snowreport.aspx/Solden#.V-LkchQha5w
[15:19:39] <andypugh> I think the concern is more the quality of the snow.
[15:20:27] <DaViruz> they have earlier trips as well, but said friend was booked for this one, so i'm inclined to pick that one
[15:20:34] <enleth> I'm considering a 7i76E for the laser cutter as well, but I have no idea if it's practical to emulate the "printer-like" workflow with linuxcnc - with the machine controlled directly or almost directly from the drawing software, with the CAM stage and linuxcnc itself mostly hidden behind the scenes
[15:21:50] <andypugh> DaViruz: It will be fine, I am sure. It’s the Alps, it’s Austria. It can’t possibly be _bad_
[15:21:51] <enleth> that's how the shitty chinese Corel plug-in works now and it's really convenient despite immense shittyness of the plug-in, the chinese controller board and everything about the two
[15:22:17] <DaViruz> yeah i'm not too worried
[15:22:38] <DaViruz> well i'm not really worried at all to be honest :)
[15:23:26] <andypugh> enleth: it’s certainl possible. But it’s not “turnkey” as such
[15:24:13] <andypugh> Gcodetools for Inkscape is close, but ’tis a tad clunky
[15:24:41] <Crom_> a tad clunky? that's an understatement if I ever heard one
[15:27:17] <enleth> andypugh: I've got a whole hackerspace worth of people who know their stuff around desktop and embedded development, so improving on something that already exists is certainly doable, but I can't take the cutter out of comission for weeks until it's done - if I decide to replace the chinese crap with something, it needs to be usable right away because people are using it to cut stuff for other projects
[15:27:45] <neckro23> is Gcodetools as good as it gets for FOSS svg->gc?
[15:27:51] <neckro23> I ended up giving up and using SheetCAM for Windows
[15:28:02] <Crom_> enleth, smoothieware or marlin on a RAMPS hardware
[15:28:10] <enleth> andypugh: I was thinking more along the lines of emulating a HPGL device
[15:29:19] <enleth> Crom_: heh, I've got a spare smoothieboard somewhere around
[15:29:24] <andypugh> SVG to G-code _ought_ to be a simple filter.
[15:29:37] <enleth> but there was something I didn't like about it, can't remember what at the moment
[15:29:45] <Crom_> turnkey is fairly nice
[15:30:06] <andypugh> The clunky bit of Gcodetools is that you put modifiers in magic textboxes.
[15:30:18] <Deejay> yeah, like to eat turkey ;)
[15:30:24] <Crom_> never got that working right...
[15:31:24] <Crom_> was able to get some of the Gcode generation stuff for sketchup to work fairly easiely
[15:32:00] <Crom_> I'm going to look at this
https://sourceforge.net/projects/cnclibrary/
[15:32:54] <Crom_> HPGL interprator
[15:36:08] <andypugh> LinuxCNC supports pluggable interpreters. It isn’t that hard to imagine an interpreter that just eats SVG
[15:36:49] <andypugh> And a HPGL interpreter would be trivial. (ish).
[15:37:43] <andypugh> Take a look at sim/axis/canterp to watch LinuxCNC eat a non-gcode input file without using G-code as an intermediate step
[15:41:06] <enleth> Actually being able to accept HPGL is nice because most vector graphics software supports HPGL output natively.
[15:45:34] <andypugh> A HPGL pluggable interpreter for LinuxCNC really isn’t at all a bad idea. I guess PU and PD could jusy be spindle-on and spindle-off
[15:47:43] <Crom_> new arduino IDE out today
[15:51:01] <cradek> surely PU/PD would cause Z motion, SP1/SP0 (I think that was how you spell select pen) might be spindle on/off
[15:52:40] <Crom_> PU PD shouldn't cause z motion
[15:53:34] <andypugh> Indeed, PU PD is more line-on line-off
[15:53:46] <Crom_> PU PD is basically draw no draw... so would be perfect for laser on/off spindle on/off, which pen would be power
[15:53:51] <andypugh> Z motion will cause XY motion stutter
[15:54:51] <andypugh> In fact, better still would be to just do motion-synched digital-0 and analog-0 outputs.
[15:55:13] <andypugh> (as there is no G-code to drive them anyway)
[15:55:13] <jesseg> (as there is no G-code to drive them anyway)
[15:55:20] <Crom_> should be able to set pen from 0 to 100
[15:55:20] <jesseg> should be able to set pen from 0 to 100
[15:55:34] <cradek> so we've found the problem already - it's not clear how it should work
[15:55:48] <cradek> (that was weird)
[15:56:16] <XXCoder> yeah
[15:56:20] <andypugh> jesseg: Did you really just type the exact same sentence as me with the same missing capitalisation, or did my IRC client mess up?
[15:56:42] <XXCoder> jess was kicked
[15:56:45] <andypugh> (ah, the latter, it disappeared on scroll)
[15:58:22] <pink_vampire> hi
[15:58:35] <Crom_> Yo pink_vampire
[15:58:46] <XXCoder> hey pink immortal
[15:58:56] <andypugh> cradek: We can decide how to make it work. But the best option for laser engraving has turned out to be motion-synched analog/digital
[15:59:11] <pink_vampire> hi :)
[15:59:13] <Crom_> sitting here... debating whether to install the MKS Sbase into the laser or wait for a real smoothieboard
[16:00:00] <pink_vampire> i'm trying to make a menu with the rotory encoder
[16:00:30] <cradek> andypugh: frankly, I think a proof-of-concept second interpreter that did anything at all would be nice to have
[16:00:55] <jesseg> hi
[16:00:59] <jesseg> Yo pink_vampire
[16:01:03] <jesseg> hey pink immortal
[16:01:13] <jesseg> cradek: We can decide how to make it work. But the best option for laser engraving has turned out to be motion-synched analog/digital
[16:01:16] <jesseg> hi :)
[16:01:18] <jesseg> sitting here... debating whether to install the MKS Sbase into the laser or wait for a real smoothieboard
[16:01:45] <jesseg> i'm trying to make a menu with the rotory encoder
[16:01:53] <cradek> jesseg: you're doing weird things. if you don't stop immediately I will kick you.
[16:03:00] <Tom_itx> wish you were here when dioz is
[16:05:08] <Tom_itx> reprap has already done encoder menus anyway
[16:06:24] <kyle____> who wants to help me plan out my chinese laser cutter upgrades? ;)
[16:07:22] <jesseg> cradek, my sincere apologies... Script went wrong... What exactly was I doing?
[16:07:30] <kyle____> i'm wondering if it'd be worth the trouble to take the steppers out and use them in a new enclosure using aluminum extrusions, delrin wheels, and belts
[16:07:44] <cradek> jesseg: you were sending exactly what other people sent
[16:08:03] <cradek> zlog: tell jesseg where to see the log please
[16:08:28] <cradek> no problem, thanks for fixing it, I wondered if it was a client problem, not a jerk problem :-)
[16:08:49] <jesseg> yikes sorry guys, that was awful of me :P
[16:08:59] <cradek> heh we've seen worse
[16:09:11] <XXCoder> I still remember nickname scroller
[16:09:13] <Crom_> kyle____, I'd find better steppers.. lower induction so you could run faster
[16:09:15] <XXCoder> that was nasty
[16:10:10] <kyle____> hmmm yeha
[16:10:20] <kyle____> it could do for now, they're replaceable
[16:10:43] <andypugh> cradek: Don’t we have canterp as a proof of concept?
[16:10:50] <kyle____> eh, first major upgrade will probably be to replace the control board anyhow
[16:11:05] <andypugh> jesseg: So, Which was your real question?
[16:11:17] <cradek> um, I think we might've deleted it
[16:11:46] <jesseg> andypugh, I'm sorry. I didn't have any real questions. I had a bug in my irc script which was repeating everyone else's statements. My most sincere appologies.
[16:12:43] <andypugh> OK. That’s fine.
[16:12:50] <andypugh> I just lost track
[16:13:05] <jesseg> andypugh, thanks though :D
[16:13:28] <andypugh> So, who was actually asking about menus and encoders?
[16:13:41] <jesseg> andypugh, lemme go look
[16:13:44] <Tom_itx> pingufan
[16:13:47] <Tom_itx> pink_vampire
[16:13:49] <Tom_itx> was iirc
[16:14:25] <jesseg> pink_vampire, yeah
[16:15:04] <pink_vampire> one sec i will take a picture
[16:15:22] <andypugh> pink_vampire: You want to step up and down a menu wih an encoder?
[16:15:23] <Tom_itx> i got one that has just a handfull of ppr with a pushbutton as part of the knob for that
[16:15:52] <andypugh> Yeah, the Panasonic ones on eBay are very cheap
[16:16:08] <Tom_itx> i got mine from digikey but can't recall the brand
[16:16:09] <cradek> that can be a really good interface
[16:16:15] <Tom_itx> used in audio equipment nowdays
[16:16:19] <andypugh> I have one on my lathe, haven’t decided what it will do yet :-)
[16:17:16] <Tom_itx> reprap marlin i believe has that interface available
[16:17:27] <Tom_itx> i haven't looked in months
[16:18:07] <Tom_itx> with a 4 line lcd
[16:18:17] <andypugh> https://goo.gl/photos/uVgcLgJXjrLxt1u3A mine is above the left MPG on the apron.
[16:18:40] <XXCoder> wtf what direct message about irssi
[16:18:44] <XXCoder> I dont use it :P
[16:19:12] <andypugh> The idea is to choose step-size with it, but unsure what the oush-button feature will do
[16:19:57] <andypugh> An encoder-controlled listbox would be a potentially useful GladeVCP widget.
[16:21:14] <Deejay> gn8
[16:22:37] <andypugh> Tom_itx: These?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rotary-Impulse-Shaft-Encoder-Push-Button-Switch-x5-Pack-/401107986090?hash=item5d63e626aa:g:vTEAAOSw34FVFCFu
[16:24:20] <Tom_itx> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cts-electrocomponents/288X232R161B2/CT3000-ND/270037
[16:24:24] <jesseg> I just ordered 3 of these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/331759243121
[16:24:27] <Tom_itx> similar to that but not that exact one
[16:25:41] <andypugh> jesseg: Those have no detentes. What is it for?
[16:25:47] <Tom_itx> i didn't notice the ppr on yours
[16:25:59] <Tom_itx> detents would be nice for a menu type use
[16:26:17] <andypugh> Tom_itx: I think they are 16ppr. Can’t decideif the short shaft is good or bad
[16:26:32] <jesseg> andypugh, for motor position feedback. Want to try making my own hybrid stepper with a PIC chip :D
[16:27:17] <andypugh> OK, those are OK then. But there are much smaller options
[16:27:45] <jesseg> andypugh, and also as a position feedback for a couple of these: www.ebay.com/itm/DC-MOTOR-1750RPM-3-4HP-56C-90V-TEFC-PERMANENT-MAGNET-113PMDC90-3-4-1750-/152163545016
[16:28:05] <Tom_itx> i also had some 4 way toggle buttons with a center switch like some handheld devices have
[16:28:26] <miss0r> speaker box is now complete ! yay
[16:28:30] <Tom_itx> or like the mirror adjust on a car
[16:28:51] <jesseg> andypugh, I did once modify a stepper motor with a couple of hall affect sensors as an hand encoder. The hall sensors gave a quad reading from the magnet, and the magnetic poles gave a natural detent :P
[16:30:19] <jesseg> and it turned so nice because it was all ball bearing
[16:30:23] <andypugh> jesseg: For motor-mounting a “kit encoder’ is generally a lot more compact, The motor has shafs and bearings you don’t need any more. Examples:
http://www.usdigital.com/products/encoders
[16:31:47] <jesseg> andypugh, those are cool, but this a budget project, and $8 was cool too. And the motor has a giant big fat shaft in the back, so I just chucked up in my lathe and line bored a hole in the back end of the motor shaft (which sticks out for the fan) and put a set screw in the side of the shaft to hold the encoder. Low speed application.
[16:32:08] <jesseg> I think last I checked a usencoder part it was more than $8 by a couple of counties :D
[16:34:36] <andypugh> I think they are about $20 if you shop around.
[16:34:46] <jesseg> ahh
[16:35:27] <andypugh> Anyway, time to log off.
[16:36:03] <jesseg> early experiments (with a 4K encoder I had on hand) were very interesting. With the PID all tuned up and the encoder mounted to the shaft, but otherwise free turning, I could use my hand to turn the encoder body and the motor would follow, like power steering
[16:56:17] <jesseg> well time to change a radiator
[16:56:37] <FAalbers> Is it true to better use carbide diamond rasps the endmills to cut Carbon Fiber plates ?
[17:15:06] <SpeedEvil> than what?
[17:15:25] <SpeedEvil> carbon fibre is very abrasive, and vulnerable to tear-out
[17:17:13] <FAalbers> then edmills
[17:17:18] <FAalbers> endmills
[17:18:52] <SpeedEvil> what finish are you aiming for?
[17:42:06] <yasnak> diamond yeah, but you'll want downcut type routers
[17:42:26] <yasnak> CF will eat the shit out of any type of tooling you use though, diamond will just last a bit longer. Watch for delamination.
[17:53:44] <Valen> I dunno about diamond on CF, I have a feeling the carbon might do weird things
[17:54:04] <Valen> fod cutting fibreglass though diamond grinding wheels is the only way to fly
[17:54:07] <Valen> for
[17:55:00] <sync> cf and pcd works just fine
[18:15:23] <Crom_> diamond has an affinity for carbon... so cuting things with carbon in them end up destroying the diamonds
[18:15:53] <Crom_> steel, cast iron, ...
[18:27:53] <sync> Crom_: the carbon content is not the issue
[18:28:17] <sync> solubility of carbon in iron is, tho
[18:40:55] <MacGalempsy> is carbon soluble in iron?
[18:42:00] <MacGalempsy> id like to see the stoiciometry on that
[18:44:34] <MacGalempsy> wow. nice wiki on that
[18:55:52] <JT-Shop> say goodnight Gracie
[18:56:49] <MacGalempsy> laters
[19:26:55] <yasnak> haha, CF just sucks to machine. we do it, but I'll take the mold anyday. I have a new part for a suture passer that I need to machine made of nitinol. Losing hair on this one.
[19:31:32] <Erant> Where do y'all tend to get your carbide inserts? I need some, but all eBay has really is either 10pc packs (I don't need that many) or singles for $5 each plus $6 shipping :/
[19:32:10] <yasnak> try mscdirect.
[19:32:28] <yasnak> or mcmastercarr
[19:56:45] <Erant> yasnak: Yeah, McMaster's my go-to, but hot damn, $10 an insert?
[19:57:05] <Erant> Without shipping? Their tooling in general I've found to be pricey.
[19:57:59] <Erant> I get raw stock from there usually, as well as fasteners and the like. Aluminum I either get locally or through eBay (those guys have some good prices sometimes)
[19:59:49] <Erant> I just got two bars of 2.5" x 1.5" x 10.5" 6061 for $23 shipped from eBay. The local off-cut section can't even touch that.
[20:07:33] <Erant> But sometimes they f' up...
[20:08:05] * Erant looks at the 2-1/2" x 1/4" slitting saw he got in the mail just now
[20:08:17] * Erant looks at the listing for a 2" x 3/32" slitting saw.
[20:08:24] <Erant> Something's not quite right here...
[20:09:02] <Erant> I'll assume that someone somewhere is squinting at their purchase right about now too :P
[20:11:38] <Erant> I mean, I'm not complaining too loudly, but I can't run this beefy cutter in my little mill...
[20:12:48] <kyle____> that's a hefty chunk of aluminum Erant
[20:13:42] <kyle____> almost 4 pounds?
[20:14:41] <justanotheruser> Know where I can get gear driven rounded tracks like these?
http://www.hepcomotion.com/product/ring-guides-track-systems-and-segments/prt2-precision-ring-guides-and-ring-segments/
[20:17:37] <SpeedEvil> Off the shelf.
[20:17:45] <SpeedEvil> The one marked 'expensive things'
[20:21:01] <Erant> kyle____: 4 pounds each.
[20:21:28] <Erant> They're going on a diet soon though :P
[20:21:45] <Erant> (It's the raw stock for my 10/22 receiver.)
[20:23:28] <FloppyDisk525> Was cutting delrin and alum, like that much... Plan on cutting some 303 'free-cutting' stainless for a project, not looking fwd to that...
[20:25:18] <Erant> I'm steering clear of stainless. The mill can handle steel, and it'll do fine on this bar of 4140, but stainless I ain't so sure.
[20:36:30] <CaptHindsight> justanotheruser: not many vendors of curved gear track
[21:03:03] <SpeedEvil> justanotheruser: what are you trying to do with it?
[21:03:22] <SpeedEvil> For modest bends, bending it yourself may be plausible
[21:04:43] <CaptHindsight> https://foodimentaryguy.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/sp-pretzel-2-5oz_2_hr.jpg :)
[21:05:47] <malcom2073> For some things you can do an XY table and computer control to get the curve
[21:08:13] <CaptHindsight> cnc controlled RC car
[21:58:38] <Cromaglious_> 1/4" collet got here... ER11 is so tiny... ER8 is alot worse
[21:59:02] <BeachBumPete> I like the ER16s
[21:59:12] <BeachBumPete> got quite a few of them
[22:01:19] <Cromaglious_> er20 will do 5/8" which is really nice
[22:02:19] <Cromaglious_> I can get an 1.5KW AC spindle with ER20
[22:02:22] <BeachBumPete> I had a bunch of ER20 that was the Tormach tooling system and it was pretty nice.
[22:02:53] <Cromaglious_> R8 will do TTS
[22:03:55] <Cromaglious_> is there a cap on the R8 to keep the collet in and the TTS zero's against it?
[22:03:56] <BeachBumPete> yes it will apparently just need a 3/4 collet
[22:04:18] <BeachBumPete> the TTS zeroes on the spindle face
[22:04:45] <Cromaglious_> what keeps the 3/4" R8 collet from falling out?
[22:05:21] <Cromaglious_> I would think there would be a ER style nut on there...
[22:05:37] <Cromaglious_> ground to be true with the end of the shaft
[22:06:08] <BeachBumPete> the 3/4 collet is held inside the spindle with the R8 drawbar
[22:06:28] <Cromaglious_> oh yeah.. the spring washers...
[22:06:35] <FinboySlick> Haha, I'd ask for advice on an ebay item but I don't want you guys to snipe me ;)
[22:06:50] <Cromaglious_> FinboySlick, just a bit
[22:06:58] <FinboySlick> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Leitz-Autocollimator-with-Mirror-Alignment-Surface-Plate-Calibration-/322269216051?hash=item4b08bdfd33:g:mtkAAOSw8w1X4v5P
[22:07:07] <FinboySlick> Worth the risk?
[22:09:10] <Cromaglious_> if you can spare the money... looks pretty cool
[22:09:11] <BeachBumPete> never seen one would not know how to advise about it sorry
[22:09:59] <FinboySlick> I suspect it'll get pretty expensive before it's over.
[22:10:53] <Cromaglious_> thinking about the theory on how it would work... I don't think it needs power except for maybe a reading light
[22:11:12] <FinboySlick> It needs a light to project the image, yes.
[22:11:50] <FinboySlick> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Japan-Laser-Auto-Collimator-KATSURA-OPTO-SYSTEMS-KT-1530-1MW-650nm-V01-K-/181624685287?hash=item2a49acc2e7:g:ryYAAOxy7vJTdvY9 is what I really wondered about but then I ran into the previous beauty.
[22:11:51] <Cromaglious_> there has to be some kind of scale to be read from the eyepiece
[22:12:30] <FinboySlick> Kinda. You start by lining up targets (often crosshairs), then you move the mirror and make sure they still line up (or measure how much they don't).
[22:14:25] <FinboySlick> I suspect the japanese one might be more modern and potentially more precise, but I couldn't find any info on the specs.
