#linuxcnc | Logs for 2016-09-15

[00:21:11] <renesis> guys
[00:21:40] <renesis> DC input motor controllers for like 80kw (100hp) motor, suggestions on drives?
[00:22:36] <renesis> i mean, im thinking most like brushless but who knows what the other team of fellow kids decides, is for school race thing
[00:23:31] <renesis> be pretty funny if they found some giant DC brush motor, sparks all coming out the back, heh
[00:26:36] <Valen> electric car stuff
[00:26:40] <Valen> zilla i think is the thing
[00:28:20] <Valen> Soliton 1, or http://cafeelectric.com/zilla.php
[00:45:48] <pfred1> find the smoking wreckage of a Tesla on the side of the road someplace
[00:47:36] <FloppyDisk525> Tesla's are AC...
[00:48:11] <FloppyDisk525> U might have a little trouble getting the DC motor controller to work
[00:48:31] <pfred1> apparently they have some troubles themselves
[00:56:43] <renesis> i mean ideally itd be three phase AC but selecting motor is another teams thing, we pretty much on hold with controllers until they figure it out
[01:32:49] <Valen> motor, controller and battery are all very tightly linked
[01:32:55] <Valen> don't try and do that in isolation
[02:53:58] <Deejay> moin
[05:03:02] <IchGucksLive> morning from still sunny germany
[06:08:58] <jthornton> morning
[06:09:12] <XXCoder> yo
[06:26:51] <jthornton> looks like a moist long weekend to be riding the Spyder
[06:27:15] <jthornton> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjOj_vsm5HPAhXBE5oKHalQCjMQFggeMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spyderpalooza.com%2F&usg=AFQjCNG5o1H5AiyLjSiikALpr9H7pfDbnA&sig2=mLc2d6WJIsUg6z-QEPAm-w
[06:27:28] <jthornton> stupid google
[06:27:36] <jthornton> http://www.spyderpalooza.com/
[06:28:22] <Tom_itx> going to that?
[06:28:40] <jthornton> yea
[06:42:59] <jthornton> it's about 72 miles from here
[06:44:11] <Tom_itx> we're supposed to get rain but i don't see it yet
[06:44:56] <jthornton> I hope to dodge the rains this weekend which starts today for us
[06:45:31] <jthornton> http://gnipsel.com/images/Spyder/nhr-carrier/NHR%20Carrier%20V5%2004.jpg
[06:45:50] <jthornton> http://gnipsel.com/images/Spyder/nhr-carrier/NHR%20Carrier%20V5%2005.jpg
[06:46:17] <Tom_itx> looks good
[06:46:28] <jthornton> finished up the prototype yesterday and got a few parts produced
[06:46:42] <jthornton> I hope to have some in stock by next week
[06:46:53] <Tom_itx> is that what you've been working on?
[06:47:07] <jthornton> yea
[06:47:28] <jthornton> took a while to sort out the details
[06:47:49] <Tom_itx> may need a bottom guard for rocks, mud etc
[06:48:15] * jthornton thinks Tom_itx is in the 4x4 channel lol
[06:48:35] <Tom_itx> ole pharts can offroad too :D
[06:48:35] <jthornton> if you use the dry box it is the bottom
[06:48:40] <jthornton> lol
[06:49:23] <jthornton> I plan on offering a diamond mesh bottom and a aluminum diamond plate bottom as well as the dry box
[06:49:39] <Tom_itx> did you bend the angle or is that stock?
[06:49:56] <jthornton> that's angle stock
[06:50:14] <jthornton> the rectangle part is
[06:50:22] <jthornton> the rest of the parts I bent
[06:50:23] <Tom_itx> i just figured you may wanna test out your new press
[06:51:12] <jthornton> like my buddy with a saw mill says if you need a 2x4 just buy one it don't pay to try and saw one up
[06:51:29] <Tom_itx> true
[06:51:38] <jthornton> http://spyderstore.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=66&product_id=69
[06:59:24] <jthornton> I just updated the description see if it reads ok
[07:02:06] <archivist> unclear if both types of bottom or a choice of bottom
[07:05:43] <jthornton> refresh and see if clear
[07:08:09] <archivist> options drop down , use tick boxes so more than one option can be added
[07:08:34] <jthornton> that doesn't make sense to have more than one
[07:09:26] <archivist> one cannot know from the description
[07:09:32] <jthornton> hmmm
[07:10:36] <archivist> I cannot see why a box cannot be placed above a mesh/solid bottom
[07:11:38] <jthornton> I could see the dry box with the diamond plate but not with the mesh as the rubbing would eat into the plastic dry box I'd think
[07:14:18] <archivist> I did think about vibration, add rubber pads?
[07:15:46] <jthornton> refresh again
[07:18:15] <archivist> you could put the three weights so uses know net carrying weight, and when selecting dry box, price did not change
[07:20:24] <jthornton> I've not fixed the pricing for the options yet
[07:22:52] <jthornton> adding the weights of the options is a good idea
[07:24:45] <jthornton> refresh again and thanks for helping
[07:29:13] <jthornton> wtf I deleted it I think
[07:30:33] <jthornton> whew changing the date available takes it out of the store...
[07:32:59] <archivist> I have been cataloguing my gear cutter with a mind to a list of sizes on gear cutting site
[07:33:46] <archivist> too much info at the moment http://www.archivist.info/cnc/tooldatabase/
[07:36:39] * jthornton only knows he doesn't know how to cut a gear
[07:36:48] <jthornton> but wished he did
[07:37:12] <SpeedEvil> jthornton: bandsaw + plywood + paper template
[07:37:27] <archivist> result a fsck up
[07:37:35] <jthornton> I have cut some straight tooth gears on the mill
[07:38:03] <jthornton> can't remember where I got the profile from...
[07:38:33] <SpeedEvil> making gears is very easy. Making ones that are reliable and long lasting at not trivial powers - rather less so
[07:43:16] <archivist> those shite gear sites make it very hard to explain the stupidity to new makers
[07:45:14] <jthornton> I'm making some slow progress on the configuration tool you can open an ini file and it loads all the info into the tool and when you save your changes it changes the original files to .ini.bak1 and .hal.bak1 incrementing the number as needed
[08:05:45] <SpeedEvil> archivist: It would be interesting to do a series of videos on this.
[08:06:08] <SpeedEvil> archivist: Start with wood gears, hand cut by chisel, and the life of them, and power transmission, ...
[08:06:24] <SpeedEvil> Or maybe first wheels running against each other
[08:06:54] <SpeedEvil> Proceed through subsequent advances
[08:06:55] <archivist> there is a video of some wood gears somewhere
[08:07:32] <SpeedEvil> really nice hardened steel gears of optimal shape, with optimal lubrication, ...
[08:08:18] <archivist> an example was in here a couple of weeks ago, someone wanted to speed up the spindle dive of their mill with terrible teeth design
[08:08:31] <archivist> dive/drive
[08:15:38] <archivist> this is the sort of junk the internet sometimes comes up with http://i.imgur.com/paEAjWC.png
[08:16:16] <SpeedEvil> Which works fine in some cases.
[08:16:22] <SpeedEvil> The fun part is when it doesn't.
[08:16:54] <SpeedEvil> If it works, is cheap enough, is not too massive, and lasts long enough, ...
[08:17:05] <archivist> see path of contact in http://www.codecogs.com/library/engineering/theory_of_machines/the-geometry-of-gears.php
[08:17:06] <SpeedEvil> some apps you only want the gear to last a second.
[08:17:40] <archivist> dont publish shite as good enough for real work
[08:18:24] <SpeedEvil> Was just talking with someone in another channel who was wanting something to spin something up once, in .1s
[08:18:59] <SpeedEvil> But if publishing, you should at least ideally know the limits
[08:19:06] <SpeedEvil> :/
[08:19:11] <SpeedEvil> And express them
[08:19:53] <archivist> most of the wood gear crowd dont seem to have much clue, they never mention design drop offs
[08:20:12] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[08:21:06] <archivist> I have seen correct shape wooden gears in a large clock
[08:24:10] <SpeedEvil> I wish I properly understood gears - one project is to make a hub motor for a ~40cm wheel to ~2kW and ~200RPM
[08:24:30] <SpeedEvil> Doing it cheaply is fun.
[08:26:47] <archivist> direct drive motor, no gears needed
[08:31:05] <jthornton> master doc missing info about the KINS section :(
[08:36:35] <Polymorphism> need a granite table and special indicator
[08:37:16] <Polymorphism> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHARS-24-X-36-GRANITE-GRADE-B-SURFACE-PLATE-NO-LEDGE-STAND-NEW-/300359823358 maybe something like this
[08:46:03] <archivist> you can set your machine with a machinists level
[08:47:15] <archivist> older method that can also verify the surface table
[08:47:33] <SpeedEvil> archivist: yeah - that's decidely uncheap though
[08:48:27] <SpeedEvil> (most stuff is optimised for high speed, not low, so output power at walking pace is quite low)
[08:48:34] <Polymorphism> I have nothing toi check the rails against
[08:48:46] <Polymorphism> the professor at my school said if I dont want to wait for the (slow) process of them helping me
[08:48:49] <Polymorphism> I could buy a large piece of glass
[08:48:51] <Polymorphism> and indicate against that
[08:49:01] <SpeedEvil> Polymorphism: small surface plates are really quite inexpensive
[08:49:03] <Polymorphism> I happen to already have a 1/4" piece thats the dimensions of the footprint of the machine
[08:49:14] <SpeedEvil> Glass is often not really very flat
[08:49:50] <archivist> glass is easily bent
[08:50:05] <SpeedEvil> you can measure it by - for example - looking through binoculars at a reflection of a distant object, and get useful results
[08:50:16] <SpeedEvil> archivist: I am now imagining 'adaptive surface plate'
[08:50:25] <SpeedEvil> 'my surface plate won't boot'
[08:51:01] <Polymorphism> it might be flatter than my desk though
[08:51:03] <Polymorphism> ?
[08:51:17] <Polymorphism> ikea precision desk
[08:51:43] <archivist> fun thing to do, look at a glass window with a collimator, you can see the front rear out of parallel :)
[08:55:29] <archivist> damn google is failing to show any reliable setting up with a level pages
[08:56:01] <Polymorphism> hmm
[08:56:08] <Polymorphism> I guess I'll just do it at my school
[08:56:11] <Polymorphism> whenever the prof has time
[08:56:24] <Polymorphism> I can still pick up the machine alone without z or spindle on there so I'll walk it down again
[08:56:41] <Polymorphism> once its aligned it it safe to pick up and move?
[08:56:53] <Polymorphism> alignment-wise
[08:58:50] <archivist> we cannot say, we done know how well you have tightened stuff up
[08:59:00] <archivist> donr/dont
[08:59:22] <Polymorphism> k
[09:04:42] <FinboySlick> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1294137530/the-first-desktop-waterjet-cutter?utm_source=CNC%20Cookbook&utm_medium=email&utm_content=cnc%20cookbook&utm_campaign=kickstarter
[09:05:59] <Polymorphism> damn
[09:06:04] <Polymorphism> shoulda bought that instead maybe
[09:06:21] <Polymorphism> I just want to make stuff
[09:06:34] <Polymorphism> its time
[09:06:36] <archivist> we had a lol a couple of days ago about that water pistol
[09:08:29] <SpeedEvil> I question that the published speeds and feeds table is real
[09:08:56] * JT-Shop finds dewey's email about JA
[09:09:01] <SpeedEvil> with 'uses regular garnet' - that strongly - with the 1500W in - pretty much implies not much more than 1500PSI.
[09:09:07] <SpeedEvil> IOW a pressure washer
[09:09:34] <SpeedEvil> Unless they're doing something with pulses, which would raise other issues
[09:10:00] <archivist> it is very slow
[09:10:38] <SpeedEvil> Slow isn't really an issue.
[09:10:41] <SpeedEvil> An inch a minute is still 60 inches an hour.
[09:10:55] <SpeedEvil> However - that will want 20 pounds of garnet
[09:10:59] <SpeedEvil> http://www.waterjets.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=50&Itemid=28 is a calculator you could run backwards with the stated 0.33lb/min of garnet
[09:10:59] <SpeedEvil> I do not have to hand a wine or windows install to run it
[09:11:03] <Polymorphism> garnet?
[09:11:04] <SpeedEvil> to quote an earlier message
[09:11:08] <Polymorphism> is that powder in the liquid
[09:11:08] <SpeedEvil> Polymorphism: abrasive
[09:11:11] <SpeedEvil> yes
[09:11:22] <Polymorphism> can you reuse it?
[09:11:25] <SpeedEvil> Polymorphism: no
[09:11:28] <Polymorphism> @_@
[09:12:16] <archivist> it is the Gillete scheme or printer ink scheme, all the profit in the consumable
[09:12:35] <SpeedEvil> What does that calculator say the pressure is, if you have 1 inch per minute cutting 1/4" aluminium with .33lb/min of garnet
[09:12:49] <pink_vampire> https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/013/697/113/0890e18144df74fe6a24c2c315475663_original.png?w=680&fit=max&v=1473644713&auto=format&lossless=true&s=5c5b23ea4548a6e1abb63c2c38af4646
[09:14:00] <SpeedEvil> quite.
[09:14:13] <SpeedEvil> Teh above calculator will let you work out what the pressure at teh nozzle is
[09:14:22] <SpeedEvil> which tells you if teh 1500w is consistent with that
[09:14:47] <SpeedEvil> 1 bar litre/s = 100W or so.
[09:30:20] <CaptHindsight> where is the line between professional-grade quality cuts and amateur/non-professional/hobby quality cuts?
[09:33:21] <CaptHindsight> "we have spent the last eight months in Shenzhen, China" where you can smell, feel and even step in the quality that typically comes from that region
[09:34:30] <SpeedEvil> Done right, you can get quality machinery quite cheaply
[09:34:56] <SpeedEvil> Done wrong, you get sort-of-machine shaped objects that may or may not have been left outside for three weeks.
[09:35:28] <CaptHindsight> there still isn't a decent linear or rotary positioner made in Shenzhen
[09:36:39] <SpeedEvil> By 'done right' - I mean completely inspecting and verifying your supply chain, and doing actual QC.
[09:37:06] <CaptHindsight> it's more the electronics hub
[09:39:04] <SpeedEvil> ah
[09:39:07] <SpeedEvil> missed that
[09:39:45] <SpeedEvil> I do hope they have the poper contracts in place for what sounds like a chinese factory helping them develop it
[09:40:47] <SpeedEvil> otherwise factory says 'lol', it's $20K each if you want to buy them, team walks away, only to find the chinese factory actually owns all of the IP, has registered the appropriate trademarks, and they now cannot legally make it in china.
[09:41:06] <CaptHindsight> $6k list
[09:42:12] <SpeedEvil> Right. The factory may have said 'we can make it for $3K' - but unless that is actually a firm contracted price that the factory has to sell at, problems can arise.
[09:42:20] <SpeedEvil> Especially if it's unclear who owns the IP.
[09:42:22] <CaptHindsight> I wonder if they found a pressure washer pump or if they are building their own
[09:43:15] <SpeedEvil> The factory can - at teh end of development turn round and say 'sorry, it's $20K' otherwise. With the intent that the people walk away, and the factory starts making and selling them itself. (for which it may have the proper rights)
[09:43:16] <CaptHindsight> there are a ton of ChinaCo router makers there
[09:43:48] <CaptHindsight> change the bed, add the pump and plumbing
[09:44:09] <SpeedEvil> everything is more annoying than a router
[09:44:18] <SpeedEvil> but just from the abrasive/... POVs really
[09:46:07] <CaptHindsight> "WAZER's user-centric software still needs development - currently we run WAZER using modified off-the-shelf CAM software and motion controller."
[09:46:17] <CaptHindsight> oh buy
[09:47:26] <CaptHindsight> so they are going to reinvent that as well
[09:48:07] <CaptHindsight> "the main challenge will be around implementing the intuitive waterjet-specific workflow that you see in our mock up"
[09:48:18] <SpeedEvil> ...
[09:48:26] <SpeedEvil> It's 2D you fuckheads, it's not that complex
[09:50:01] <archivist> dxf2gcode with water sized kerf
[09:51:06] <CaptHindsight> the BOM is ~$1K unless they go off and try to make lots of parts themselves
[09:52:24] <SpeedEvil> I question if a pressure washer with abrasive can in fact hit their cut speeds
[09:53:17] <CaptHindsight> they don't mention pump life
[09:54:57] <archivist> I wonder if they are using a domestic pressure washer, or something better
[09:55:24] <CaptHindsight> I'd be surprised if it was anything better
[09:55:26] <renesis> eh
[09:55:35] <renesis> arent pro machines known for eating themselves over time?
[09:56:02] <jdh> amateurs with waterjets seem like a bad idea
[09:56:04] <renesis> i thought they were high maintenance, i dont see domestic machine not meant for abrasives lasting very long
[09:56:26] <jdh> or domestic fingers lasting long
[09:56:32] <CaptHindsight> yeah, they are probably ignoring the life of the pump and nozzle issue
[09:56:33] <renesis> yeah theres that
[09:56:54] <SpeedEvil> I could in principle see them trying a ~twice pressure-washer PSI
[09:56:59] <CaptHindsight> you aren't suppose to analyze this, just consume, conform and obey
[09:57:03] <SpeedEvil> taking an existing pump and modifying it
[09:57:17] <renesis> capthindsight: aaaah, so they are going for the 3d printer demographic
[09:57:20] <SpeedEvil> Much more than that is gonna get expensive.
[09:57:27] <CaptHindsight> renesis: yeah
[09:57:33] <CaptHindsight> and they won't care
[09:57:42] <CaptHindsight> since it's not overbuilt
[09:58:01] <renesis> they get bored of shit performaing shitty before it has a chance to really wear out
[09:58:50] <CaptHindsight> did somebody see 1500W as the pump?
[09:59:04] <renesis> hey so whatever happened to the amphasis on machines that can build themselves?
[09:59:09] <renesis> *emphasis
[09:59:37] <archivist> now it is machines to cut themselves apart
[09:59:41] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: they list that as power use
[10:00:16] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: So maybe 1400W - less of course at run if they don't have soft-start
[10:01:07] <CaptHindsight> https://www.walmart.com/ip/26770726 $75 pressure washer
[10:02:39] <archivist> 1400 watt motor so yes domestic washer power
[10:02:47] <IchGucksLive> hi
[10:03:07] <CaptHindsight> "We are currently not divulging the exact pressure until patents are granted."
[10:03:47] <IchGucksLive> renesis: 3D printer can reprit themself
[10:03:48] <archivist> how the f can they get a patent on old technology
[10:04:29] <CaptHindsight> I smell BS there, it's probably some patent on something else in the machine
[10:04:38] <CaptHindsight> or combination
[10:04:56] <IchGucksLive> archivist how can you get a patent on greens
[10:07:47] <CaptHindsight> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_intensifier
[10:09:42] <CaptHindsight> https://wardjet.com/assets/images/university/intensifierConcept.jpg
[10:12:14] <archivist> very old idea used in press work
[10:12:56] <CaptHindsight> you could use maple syrup as hydraulic fluid and patent that
[10:14:39] <archivist> the drawing on WP is best part of 100 years old :)
[10:15:50] <CaptHindsight> http://hackaday.com/2014/01/14/hydro-the-low-cost-waterjet-cutter/
[10:16:19] <CaptHindsight> http://www.adamlibert.com/Waterjet
[10:17:22] <CaptHindsight> http://www.adamlibert.com/Waterjet/i-pBHg8BC/A
[10:17:34] <CaptHindsight> $200 pump
[10:18:47] <CaptHindsight> "They are also cutting at “only” 10,000 PSI."
[10:19:53] <CaptHindsight> " I’ve not yet seen any detail about it beyond what was said by someone off-camera when discussing the mechanical advantage of their dual-piston arrangement when working from a 100psi air-line (there weren’t even any close-up shots of it)."
[10:20:49] <CaptHindsight> "designing a 10,000+ psi pump definitely wasn’t in the scope of the project. we were lucky to find the pump that we did"
[10:22:22] <CaptHindsight> http://www.haskel.com/products/pneumatic-pumps/liquid-pumps/
[10:23:49] <archivist> holding a pressure is a whole lot different to a volume of liquid at a pressure
[10:24:27] <CaptHindsight> http://liquidpumpcatalog.haskel.com/ecatalog/liquid-pumps-by-hp/0.75
[10:25:22] <CaptHindsight> the specs to their 2 and 2.2HP pumps is broken
[10:25:49] <CaptHindsight> so more than ^^ and less than http://liquidpumpcatalog.haskel.com/ecatalog/liquid-pumps-by-hp/3
[10:27:24] <CaptHindsight> so maybe 10K psi and 1L/m flow
[10:29:01] <CaptHindsight> so they found or "invented" a way to attach an electric motor to a similar pump
[10:29:36] <FloppyDisk525> The $$$$$ scares me, expensive restaurant...
[10:30:13] <FloppyDisk525> the maple syrup would be good on pancakes when you cut animal shapes out of them...
[10:30:20] <CaptHindsight> so from their history it's a dual piston electric intensifier pump
[10:30:43] <CaptHindsight> syrup and shape at the same time with infused flavor
[10:30:58] <CaptHindsight> <-- off to make waffles
[10:31:21] <FloppyDisk525> Oh no - the waffles must be dark side food...
[10:31:42] <CaptHindsight> no these are wood grain maker waffles
[10:32:01] <CaptHindsight> with open source syrup
[10:32:56] <CaptHindsight> http://hackaday.com/2016/02/04/tinijet-affordable-waterjet-cutting-at-home/
[10:33:31] <CaptHindsight> The operating pressure is a whopping 17,000 PSI or 1200 bar.
[10:36:08] <FinboySlick> I like on the side articles: "Path to crafsmanship: The art of being wrong."
[10:37:40] <CaptHindsight> if you ask the older and wiser you can often skip past mistakes and make your own new ones
[10:38:58] <CaptHindsight> what gets me is how the maker crowd tends to want to start from the beginning vs after everyones mistakes
[10:44:19] <CaptHindsight> https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Flow-waterjet-60k-intensifier-waterjet-pump_60525295549.html
[10:46:25] <CaptHindsight> <$500 800bar 0.64l/min https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/discount-JULY-brand-high-quality-intensifier_60522225349.html
[10:47:22] <CaptHindsight> they also have a 170:1 version 1360bar, 0.37L/min
[10:48:21] <CaptHindsight> LOL crazy selling good quality JULY brand
[10:48:36] <CaptHindsight> https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/crazy-selling-good-quality-JULY-brand_60456808475.html
[10:50:37] <CaptHindsight> so someone could post a BOM and use Linuxcnc in almost no time
[10:52:04] <CaptHindsight> looks like they went to CES to get some interest
[10:52:37] <CaptHindsight> so you build up hype and then launch on poopstarter or similar
[10:53:32] <CaptHindsight> they won't be shipping until Sept 2017!!
[10:54:53] <SpeedEvil> I question if the above works
[10:55:04] <CaptHindsight> I wonder if what they are really doing is patenting some low cost pump and waterjet combo to please investors
[10:55:05] <SpeedEvil> Because the nozzle gets too fine at low flows
[10:55:39] <SpeedEvil> and 10000PSI /1500W = quite a small nozzle diameter
[10:58:03] <CaptHindsight> WAZER's cutting speed varies depending on the material being cut and the material thickness, so there is no single answer. The list in the “Materials” section shows speeds for common materials
[10:58:51] <CaptHindsight> I can't seem to find the "Materials" section
[11:00:30] <jthornton> see you guys Sunday
[11:01:15] <CaptHindsight> no claims on durability :)
[11:01:31] <CaptHindsight> We understand the importance of knowing this figure and are in the process of evaluating this set of components for longevity. Once we have results we will share the numbers.
[11:02:06] <CaptHindsight> Cutting bed: but average users can expect this to be every 25-75 hours of runtime.
[11:02:40] <CaptHindsight> SpeedEvil: The cut produced by the water stream is roughly 1/16” (1.5mm) in width,
[11:03:17] <CaptHindsight> how rough is anyones guess
[11:07:45] <CaptHindsight> they use dual pistons so they keep continuous flow and the nozzle and plumbing are the accumulator
[11:27:10] <CaptHindsight> http://www.iwmwaterjet.com/waterjet_spare_parts.html direct from the USA via Nanjing
[11:30:45] <FloppyDisk525> http://www.iwmwaterjet.com/product_spec/WC5WA2513H.htm
[11:31:37] <FloppyDisk525> At least they have filtration, holding tank for h20, etc. Better than those little fries...
[11:40:00] <CaptHindsight> looks like they want to be the Form1/2 of waterjet
[11:41:02] <CaptHindsight> most people I know with them want an open controller after getting stuck with their closed system
[12:36:31] <CaptHindsight> http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v537/n7620/full/nature19313.html Extreme creep resistance in a microstructurally stable nanocrystalline alloy
[13:18:30] <kyle___> $100 for a smoothieboard huh
[13:22:00] <kyle___> lots of stuff i don't need for a laser cutter, probably just gonna do pololu drivers + rpi0
[13:30:11] <Lowridah> you could buy a cheaper mks sbase
[13:34:43] <Denkishi> Anyone come across an NMTB #40 .125 holder? Smallest I can seem to find is 3/16"
[13:37:01] <cradek> I have some BT-40 1/8, but for tools that small you probably want a collet chuck like ER, because the tiny tools don't have flats for a weldon type setscrew
[13:37:33] <cradek> https://www.maritool.com/p16109/NMTB-40-ER16-2.5QC-COLLET-CHUCK-TOOL-HOLDER/product_info.html
[13:45:38] <Denkishi> http://i.imgur.com/TIJ5OrN.jpg
[13:45:52] <cradek> uh
[13:46:07] <Denkishi> Those nicks in the center causeing my problems maybe?
[13:46:41] <cradek> you haven't said what the problem is...?
[13:47:05] <cradek> but yeah either way that's clearly scrap
[13:47:42] <Denkishi> Snapped two cutters above and below where the collet holds the cutter
[13:49:30] <Denkishi> Main problemn is I got thrown on this fancy shmancy Trak DPM CNC from the 90
[13:49:32] <Denkishi> 's
[13:50:24] <Denkishi> And the person(s) before me weren't terribly concerned with with upkeep and TLC of the machine and related tools heh
[14:02:01] <ToddZ> Collets don't last forever. the one pictured above is clearly junk (worn out ruined).
[14:02:55] <Crom_> yea!!! heekscnc did two sketches together
[14:03:15] <Denkishi> ToddZ, yeah gotta new one otw :)
[14:05:12] <ToddZ> collets for small tools typically don't last as long, we ussually get about a year out of a 1/4" one.
[14:10:46] <Crom_> yep gotta change this fan in this machine
[14:10:50] <Crom_> laterz
[14:42:13] <JT-Mobile> hmm raining in Farmington
[14:44:51] <JT-Mobile> andchat seems better than androidchat
[14:52:15] <kyle___> farmington new mexico?
[14:52:37] <kyle___> i've been there :O
[14:57:59] <JT-Mobile> Missouri
[14:59:30] <miss0r> great news(jk) I just found out the building nearest here have been sold to a biker gang...
[15:00:03] <dioz_> nice biker gang?
[15:00:25] <miss0r> I don't know of any real love spreading biker gangs here :)
[15:00:35] <dioz_> oh. yank?
[15:01:02] <miss0r> yank? :S this gang is called satudarah or something
[15:01:58] <miss0r> a few days ago they made headlines because they chopped someone into small peices and transported him to the forest dumpsite in ikea bags :/
[15:02:18] <miss0r> hello new neighboors....
[15:04:01] <dioz_> ikea is a store
[15:04:52] <miss0r> yeah. around here everyone knows the bags they sell. when they have been used to transport the stuff home from ikea, they serve out the rest of their days as laundry bags :)
[15:05:14] <miss0r> the bag I am talking about -> http://www.ikea.com/dk/da/images/products/frakta-indk-bspose-stor-bla__79087_PE202617_S4.JPG
[15:05:31] <dioz_> oh
[15:05:41] <dioz_> messy
[15:05:53] <miss0r> one would think so, yes :)
[15:05:56] <andypugh> Wouldn’t need to be very small pices then?
[15:06:30] <miss0r> I guess not. but acording to the police report, the body was processed by a wood chipper
[15:06:38] <dioz_> about arm long would you say?
[15:07:03] <miss0r> dioz_: that would make it a shitty wood chipper, if an arm can pass through
[15:07:13] <miss0r> or a very safe one
[15:07:51] <andypugh> miss0r: Seems unlikely that they will be able to pay the mortgage from gaol?
[15:08:08] <enleth> any recommendations for a good camera for indoors YT video recording? machining videos and similar stuff.
[15:08:32] <andypugh> I have found my iPhone to be entirely adequate.
[15:08:35] <enleth> miss0r: at least you can pay the protection fee by machining spare bike parts for them
[15:09:12] <enleth> andypugh: in my experience even good smartphone cameras are a little bit too sensitive to low light conditions
[15:09:20] <miss0r> I would rather they didn't even come around here. trouble seems to follow
[15:09:33] <enleth> so I'm looking for something with more sensor area and physically bigger optics
[15:10:09] <andypugh> Well, the best videos on Youtube are by Clickspring, and on his web site he says “Chris: I have a Panasonic HC-X920 camcorder, and edit with Adobe Premiere Elements. For lighting I have the shop fluorescents, and I use a couple of desk lamps.”
[15:10:23] <andypugh> So, that.
[15:10:28] <dioz_> nice desk lamp lightng
[15:11:25] <enleth> andypugh: they don't make this one anymore, but I guess there's going to be a successor to this model
[15:11:46] <enleth> I have to see if This Old Tony mentioned what camera he's using for his videos
[15:11:58] <enleth> if there's anyone making better machining videos than Clickspring, it's him
[15:12:51] <dioz_> there's a dude i watch... lemme see if i can find him
[15:14:14] <dioz_> https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCJAFY2kKKb5sg79yld7T3hA
[15:14:17] <dioz_> chucke2009
[15:15:17] <andypugh> I just looked at This Old Tony and Clickspring at full-screen and Clickspring is significantly sharper. But that could be uploaded quality.
[15:15:55] <enleth> could be, although Tony is a master of lighting and dynamic range
[15:16:19] <enleth> and I think he does use some postprocessing filters that may reduce sharpness
[15:17:21] <dioz_> why is this room so god damn hot?
[15:18:08] <dioz_> i'm standing in a kitchen with a huge hood scoop over a giant range and holy fuck the range isn't even on
[15:18:13] <dioz_> and this room is balls
[15:18:14] <kyle___> i've also been there JT-Mobile
[15:18:23] * kyle___ is from kansas city
[15:19:29] <JT-Mobile> We are at Spyder Palooza
[15:23:50] <malcom2073_> In farmington of all places?
[15:24:22] <JT-Mobile> Yep
[15:26:29] <kyle___> there were so many spyders in rolla when I was going to school there, I'm not surprised
[15:28:16] <JT-Mobile> the biggest one is in Springfield
[16:04:03] <miss0r> success! I just put together two of the 6 outer peices of my subwoofer case. :) 34 finger joints on each site
[16:04:25] <miss0r> althou, it did include a good 30mins with a file
[16:21:44] <kyle___> laser cutting THROUGH pcb, possible?
[16:26:05] <FloppyDisk525> fumes might be an issue
[16:29:11] <CaptHindsight> kyle___: it's the common method used for small holes and via, where mechanical drills break too often
[16:29:44] <CaptHindsight> for core and prepreg
[16:30:38] <CaptHindsight> dust is also an issue with PCB drilling
[16:31:17] <CaptHindsight> epoxy and glass isn't exactly healthdust
[16:31:18] <kyle___> ooh
[16:31:35] <kyle___> yeah, i was thinking i'd have to drill the holes separately...
[16:32:01] <CaptHindsight> laser is used for 0.006" and under
[16:33:56] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVfEqiw9-JU Laser drilling of printed circuit boards
[16:35:54] <kyle___> hmm thanks CaptHindsight
[16:39:31] <FloppyDisk525> Wouldn't it make sense then to use laser for all via's and profile cut-outs?
[16:41:45] <CaptHindsight> not if you own a bunch of cnc drills
[16:42:26] <CaptHindsight> laser is pricey
[16:43:42] <FloppyDisk525> No doubt it's pricey, I just figured if you made the invest it might be faster and more cost-effective in the long run.
[16:47:20] <Deejay> gn8
[16:47:50] <andypugh> Super fast, and just in time for the surface-mount revolution.
[16:54:00] <CaptHindsight> yeah, mostly vias with just a few mounting holes
[16:54:39] <CaptHindsight> but all that stacking and plating takes time for multilayer
[16:55:31] <CaptHindsight> wouldn't it be faster and easier to just print boards with just SLA and inkjet?
[16:57:58] <CaptHindsight> no drilling, no laminating, no plating
[16:58:21] <CaptHindsight> oh yeah, patents
[17:08:43] <CaptHindsight> http://www.lpkfusa.com/articles/hdi/pcb_laser_technology.pdf
[17:12:18] <kyle___> patents shmatents
[17:12:23] <kyle___> i just want to prototype maaaan
[17:15:05] <CaptHindsight> kyle___: ^^ that pdf has the info, UV laser and galvo
[17:15:18] <kyle___> yeah, thx
[17:21:10] <CaptHindsight> 355nm lasers are not cheap
[17:22:57] <kyle___> nope
[17:23:07] <kyle___> so i'll probably go for the spraypaint+fecl
[17:24:13] <CaptHindsight> http://www.dpss-lasers.com/Downloads/Titan%20DataSheet%20RevA.pdf
[17:25:21] <kyle___> hmmmm
[17:48:03] <FAalbers> Hello ! Anyone using OnShape ?
[17:49:31] <CaptHindsight> kyle___: http://www.ebay.com/itm/DPSS-LASERS-3505-UV-LASER-HIGH-REPETITION-RATE-EFICIENT-QUASI-CW-/201610419520 $2100 or best
[17:50:52] <FAalbers> Has anyone exported a OnShape drawing to CamBam here ? I'm having some issues doing so
[17:58:45] <kyle___> CaptHindsight, i have a $300 40w co2 laser cutter ;)
[17:58:53] <kyle___> we'll see what shenanigans i can pull off with that
[18:00:45] <CaptHindsight> 200um holes
[18:01:22] <MacGalempsy> man... my lift does not have the capacity to move this EDM...
[18:02:13] <CaptHindsight> I've been shopping for 6ton forklifts
[18:03:20] <MacGalempsy> my buddy and I are sitting here debating what course of action to take. My idea is to take three 2x6 and screw them together to make a 6x6
[18:03:35] <JT-Mobile> mac I moved my machines with come a long and toe jack
[18:04:02] <MacGalempsy> and make jenga blocks, jack up each side of the pallet and use the blocks for support as we lift the thing with floor jacks
[18:05:28] <kyle___> CaptHindsight, if i could just manage to drill something like a pilot hole i could probably handle the rest
[18:05:43] <kyle___> even if it's more of a pilot indentation :P
[18:05:58] <kyle___> i'm not doing massive volumes so it's okay if i break a few bits
[18:07:04] <archivist> MacGalempsy, wooden tracks on blocks (to get level) with scaffold tube rollers http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2015/2015_09_27_Brown_&_Sharpe_CMM/IMG_2007.JPG
[18:08:16] <archivist> plus a single high lift jack
[18:09:54] <archivist> only small moves at a step
[18:13:35] <MacGalempsy> https://www.flickr.com/photos/58181938@N03/29079989734/in/dateposted-public/
[18:13:44] <MacGalempsy> https://www.flickr.com/photos/58181938@N03/29625285721/in/dateposted-public/
[18:14:02] <MacGalempsy> it is already on a pallet
[18:14:16] <archivist> flicker refuses to show me pics
[18:15:09] <JT-Mobile> that the edm?
[18:15:15] <MacGalempsy> yeah
[18:15:25] <JT-Mobile> cool
[18:15:36] <MacGalempsy> it weighs more than 880lbs
[18:15:42] <MacGalempsy> that is the max of the lift I hafve
[18:16:03] <MacGalempsy> thought about taking the table off to see if that would make it light enough to lift
[18:16:11] <MacGalempsy> but exploring all options
[18:16:35] <SpeedEvil> MacGalempsy: steroids
[18:18:05] <MacGalempsy> archivist: http://picpaste.com/29079989734_3c6e180599_b-c9y910Cq.jpg
[18:18:54] <MacGalempsy> http://picpaste.com/29625285721_a7be006870_b__1_-jg4XZTpd.jpg
[18:19:02] <MacGalempsy> for the non flickrers
[18:19:53] <MacGalempsy> im kind of partial to the building up from the bottom, like jenga
[18:20:01] <CaptHindsight> https://imagebin.ca/v/2vCyJwwBDMuC skates on one side only
[18:20:03] <archivist> I move most stuff with rollers, a toe lift jack, or lever and packing to lift and get stuff under,
[18:20:03] <MacGalempsy> except, no losing at this game allowed
[18:20:28] <MacGalempsy> its got to go up 30"
[18:20:41] <MacGalempsy> and be stable enough to walk it off the pallet
[18:21:18] <MacGalempsy> cinder blocks seem like a better idea than stacking 6x6s
[18:21:41] <archivist> good wood can be reasonably stable
[18:21:52] <SpeedEvil> plus, you can bolt it together
[18:22:16] <MacGalempsy> ive got a bunch of stuff to bolt together, cinder blocks may be easier and cheaper
[18:22:58] <archivist> the sequence of mine out the van http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=cmm those are concrete not cinder blocks
[18:23:24] <FAalbers> I guess no one uses OnShape ...
[18:23:38] <JT-Mobile> http://gnipsel.com/shop/hardinge/hardinge-gallery.xhtml
[18:26:11] <MacGalempsy> archivist: do you have an pics of how you lowered it down from height?
[18:26:35] <MacGalempsy> i like the roller idea part
[18:27:18] <archivist> MacGalempsy, unfortunately no, as I did 90% on my own, cannot hold a camera and jack
[18:27:31] <MacGalempsy> heh, ok ok,
[18:28:28] <archivist> MacGalempsy, the high work used http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FoxHunter-48-Inch-Farm-Jack-Tractor-High-Lift-Lifting-2-5-Ton-Capacity-Off-Road-/201106551625
[18:28:49] <MacGalempsy> ok, I have one of those
[18:28:51] <archivist> have to be very careful though
[18:29:05] <MacGalempsy> of course, that is why my buddy was freaking out
[18:29:11] <archivist> :)
[18:29:28] <archivist> why I like to work alone
[18:29:29] <MacGalempsy> i was thinking that railroad ties might be better
[18:29:48] <MacGalempsy> I was actually thinking about that, do it after he leaves
[18:29:58] <archivist> yes they are big and strong enough
[18:30:19] <MacGalempsy> I also have a 3 ton floor jack that I can use to support both sides
[18:30:38] <MacGalempsy> the farm jack gets low enough on the pallet to get the floor jack under
[18:32:01] <archivist> lift one side an inch, pack swap sides, rinse repeat, till high enough for planks, roll to place, reverse
[18:32:42] <archivist> with a few, stop to relocate planks for safety
[18:35:42] <archivist> in that move one plank did break when neighbour came over to help when it was close to the ground
[18:46:16] <MacGalempsy> we have lifted the pallet with a fork lift, and I pulled it off the trailer with my small hydraulic fork lift
[18:47:13] <MacGalempsy> it is an oak pallet, so, I think 4 corners of pallet with maybe one set of wooden crossbars will do the trick
[18:47:29] <MacGalempsy> oops corners of concrete blocks
[18:51:28] <enleth> MacGalempsy: an $100 chinese engine hoist should be able to handle that just fine
[18:51:55] <archivist> crumple
[18:52:25] <enleth> I've been handling 500kg parts with one, as long as you don't let the load swing sideways it's fine
[18:52:29] <archivist> he has about a ton
[18:52:56] <enleth> handling on full reachout, moving stuff and all
[18:53:52] <enleth> archivist: you mean this EDM is a ton?
[18:54:31] <enleth> looking at the photo I wouldn't give it more than 500kg
[18:54:52] <enleth> unless it's solid iron with no webbing under that sheet metal, which I doubt
[18:57:15] <enleth> MacGalempsy: otherwise, is the small forklift mechanically capable of reaching the height you want it to be at?
[18:59:34] <enleth> MacGalempsy: using the forklift *and* the jacks at the same time, from opposite sides of the pallet, could work
[19:00:07] <enleth> stuffing things like cinder blocks and pallets underneath as you go up in case the forklift decides it's time to blow off some pressure through the gaskets
[19:01:43] <enleth> MacGalempsy: just put some rollers under that thing *first*, then strap it to the pallet for the lifting operation, then at the table height just unstrap it and roll it off
[19:02:25] <enleth> it does look high enough to be tilted by hand
[23:28:54] <norias> hi
[23:29:07] <norias> my last day of imts, tomorrow
[23:45:35] <CaptHindsight> norias: how is the show this year?
[23:47:48] <norias> same
[23:47:49] <norias> really
[23:49:27] <CaptHindsight> are you an exhibitor?
[23:50:08] <norias> nope
[23:50:22] <norias> dont think i'd ever want to be
[23:50:32] <CaptHindsight> I'm local but too busy to go this time
[23:50:58] <norias> good!
[23:55:12] <norias> There were some neat things
[23:55:24] <norias> sometimes I feel like... if people look at me like i'm nuts
[23:55:35] <norias> when I ask if they're stuff does something i want to do
[23:55:41] <norias> i'm headed in the right direction
[23:57:03] <norias> there's a huge show of force in 3d printing, this year