#linuxcnc | Logs for 2016-08-11

[00:52:03] <Crom> Ugh... damn Marlin... tracking down the routines which digitalWrite(7,HIGH); well pin 7,8,9, and 10...
[00:54:14] <Crom> I want to send a M80 or M81 which will turn on or off the Exhaust fan, Water Pump, and lid lights.
[00:54:45] <Crom> M106/M107 already turn on/off the air assist on the K40 laser
[02:31:01] <Deejay> moin
[04:35:55] <XXCoder> so alive, not alivel.
[04:36:28] <XXCoder> jesseg: our numbering system was invented by foreigners.
[05:41:37] <jthornton> morning
[05:43:04] <jthornton> looks like another round of rains on the way
[05:43:31] <XXCoder> water
[06:27:10] <lair82> jthornton, thats a hell of a nice building you are putting up, are you going to put a retaining wall on the backside?
[06:27:28] <lair82> how big is the building actually?
[06:27:49] <XXCoder> its bigger inside
[06:30:53] <jthornton> no retaining wall just keep the crawler near by to clean up after a rain till it quits falling lol
[06:31:10] <archivist> I imagine him building another in a few years :)
[06:31:12] <jthornton> 30' x 50' x 12'
[06:31:19] <jthornton> I can't
[06:39:43] <lair82> That's nice size, what did you have in material cost's if you don't mind?
[06:40:03] <XXCoder> or BTM
[06:42:05] <jthornton> I didn't build it for once I had it built, saves me money
[06:42:25] <jthornton> slab is 6" thick and it cost me $6,300
[06:42:44] <jthornton> building with insulation cost $14,650
[06:43:12] <jthornton> insulated metal front and back garage door $1,460
[06:44:06] <jthornton> the slab ended up being 7" thick
[06:44:54] <archivist> seems low price compared to over here
[06:45:00] <jthornton> I have to run 210' of electric/water/data
[06:45:32] <jthornton> yea, it is low for here too... no one can compete with that builder on that type of building
[06:46:29] <archivist> we have too many silly regulations over here except for farm buildings
[06:47:45] <archivist> and local .gov wants a percentage for the planning permission
[06:47:47] <jthornton> so it cost $15 a square foot to have it built
[06:48:41] <jthornton> if I don't count the hoe repairs and new tires on her
[06:50:06] <jthornton> lucky for me they don't tax that type of building much, only the one you live in gets taxed heavy
[07:21:31] <lair82> Thats not too bad at 15/sq-ft. how much to get it put up?
[07:22:09] <XXCoder> jthornton: they build entire thing? or just framing
[07:26:42] <jthornton> I had a concrete guy pour the slab and the contractor is building the entire thing except the garage door
[07:28:41] <XXCoder> cool
[07:32:12] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, wood frame cheaper than metal?
[07:38:47] <jthornton> didn't really price a metal frame building but some I looked at online were higher than what I'm paying
[08:13:48] <JT-Shop> they are going to try and finish today!
[08:15:57] <archivist> the hole in the ground to base and building is very fast
[08:17:46] <lair82> Thats pretty damn good considering you just poured that thing first of the week
[08:19:38] <JT-Shop> they do it so much they use sign language to communicate when needed
[08:21:03] * archivist awaits nooooo pics
[08:21:12] <Sync> archivist: putting up a sheet metal shed in europe is suprisingly cheap too
[08:21:57] <archivist> Sync, in the UK building regs and planning slows us down and costs
[08:23:42] <Sync> same in germany, but it is actually not bad
[08:32:59] <JT-Shop> hmm 18,000 cubic feet of space... wonder how long it stays empty
[08:35:01] <malcom2073> 2.5 days
[08:35:38] <archivist> linuxcnc crane for pick and place?
[08:38:17] <JT-Shop> have it move everything at night so it's a surprise in the morning lol
[09:10:15] <MacGalempsy> buenos dias
[10:52:44] <jesseg> XXCoder, Good Morning. I do not understand the significance of your statement to me regarding our numbering system and that it was invented by foreigners.
[10:55:07] <malcom2073> jesseg: Not everything, or even most things invented by foreigners makes no sense
[10:55:27] <malcom2073> I think he was pointing out that it was a silly statement you made ;)
[10:55:40] <jesseg> maybe he loves fortran
[10:56:05] <jesseg> I don't see anything silly about my statement. :D
[10:56:30] <malcom2073> haha
[10:56:32] <jesseg> I still cannot for the life of me figure out what fortran has to do with foreigners
[10:56:35] <malcom2073> I mis-read it exactly like he did
[10:56:41] <malcom2073> I read it as "foreign programmers"
[10:57:09] <jesseg> LOL oh OK... no.. I have no problem with foreign programmers. If they write good code then good job to them!
[10:57:49] <malcom2073> File formats are a funny thing
[10:58:00] <jesseg> that's for sure
[10:58:16] <jesseg> but DXF takes the cake :P
[10:58:16] <malcom2073> Everyone has their own idea of how to organize information on disk, and almost every idea is entirely unique
[10:58:27] <malcom2073> And most are terrible :P
[10:58:36] <jesseg> agreed :P
[10:59:37] <jesseg> but for an "open standard" format that was intended to be used by everybody, I'd have thought they would have made some effort to make it nice :P
[11:00:07] <SpeedEvil> dxf was a typical file format of the era
[11:00:10] <jesseg> and if I were a fortran professor in the 80's, it'd probably make perfect sense to me :P
[11:00:49] <jesseg> SpeedEvil, yeah, and in fact another format of that erra was IGES and actually did have fortran formatted strings in it. But at least it was a readable obvious format :P
[11:05:41] <jesseg> it's like "Oh, hey I'm writing this program in pascal so I think I'll save my data to look sort of like pascal source code.. even though it's not..." haha
[11:11:31] <jdh> I write a lot of fortran which writes lots of files and I have no idea what you mean
[11:14:33] <jesseg> jdh, wow let me shake your hand! I always heard of fortran but never met anyone who used it!
[11:15:21] <jesseg> jdh, what do you think of the DXF file format? Does it seem pretty logical and tidy to you?
[11:16:51] <jdh> not particularly, but it doesn't need to be
[11:18:02] <jesseg> Well, I suppose no standard information interchange format *needs* to be comprehensible or logical.. But it sure would be sweet! :D
[11:18:52] <malcom2073> Heh, spoken like a true 80's programmer
[11:18:54] <malcom2073> :-P
[11:19:33] <jdh> hmm. my first fortran was in early 80s
[11:20:05] <jesseg> malcom2073, lol so true
[11:20:07] <jdh> perhaps I should have said "didn't need to be"
[11:20:36] <jesseg> Well, either way, it sure would have been sweet if it had been :D
[11:20:48] <malcom2073> Things are, fortunatly, a lot easier nowadays
[11:21:01] <jdh> sure, do it all in xml
[11:23:06] <malcom2073> Or any of the wide variety of "standards" heh
[11:23:16] <malcom2073> Don't like them? Make your own! (tm)
[11:23:51] <jesseg> yeah I make my own :P
[11:25:19] <jesseg> I made it indented like a C program since I'm using C LOL
[11:25:50] <jesseg> http://videoflier.com/files/deleteme.gwc
[11:25:59] <jdh> dxf looks nothing like my code
[11:26:35] <jesseg> well that's excellent news
[11:31:02] <jesseg> or should I say that .IS. excellent .NEWS. :D
[11:33:04] <jdh> that is illogical
[11:33:33] <jesseg> LOL sweet - touch?
[11:50:36] <Frank__> oficially speaking from linux debian pc for first time lol
[11:52:36] <malcom2073> nice!
[11:54:29] <Frank__> yeah, now i have to test the 5i25 i/o ports
[11:56:51] <FloppyDisk> what do you plan to attach to the 5i25?
[11:57:32] <Frank__> 7i76
[11:58:32] <Frank__> how worried should i be if a pc psu starts malfunctioning *bad smell coming out* and screwing up the mesa boards/adyacent electronics, say servos etc
[11:58:38] <Frank__> sorry to bother
[11:59:02] <Frank__> i have a chinese xxx 400w psu, dunno if i should change it
[11:59:14] <SpeedEvil> Replace
[12:00:04] <Frank__> yeah, this one still doesnt do anything wired *no bad smell* but i just changed one 500w chinese that did, and i just wondered how much damage can potentially output that thingy
[12:00:20] <FloppyDisk> I wouldn't be too worried, but replacing it now is a good idea if it's on the fritz.
[12:00:22] <Frank__> its fine, i can google it heh but maybe someone wanted to chitchat hehe
[12:01:35] <Frank__> its just my self insecurity talking, as its my first machine ever, *with expensive servos* and i would be REALLY bumped down if the psu Fuc** up something
[12:01:41] <malcom2073> Depending on how the PSU fails, it could damage everything hooked to it. My experience so far has been when they fail, the PC just shuts off, or gets into a reboot loop, not damaging much... but then again I've not had a "bad smell" failure heh
[12:02:55] <JT-Shop> I think I have a bad PC power supply in my XP computer, just keep rebooting if I do anything like surf the internet or watch a video
[12:03:05] <JT-Shop> could be the video card maybe
[12:03:11] <pcw_home> Last PC power supply I had that I had fail just would not turn on any more
[12:03:17] <Frank__> yeah they are unpredictable
[12:04:58] <pcw_home> I can't complain, it was from a retired server here and then did test station duty (1000's of power cycles ) for several years
[12:06:01] <Frank__> but then, it was probably a good name brand *maybe*
[12:07:09] <lair82> pcw_home, turned out to be a bad handwheel, I think they must have dropped it or something, I just couldn't keep track of the hi's and low's fast enought on that old scope yesterday.
[12:07:34] <lair82> enough, not enought
[12:07:43] <Frank__> is there a way signal wires (correctly wired) can get to damage the servo driver i/o ports if say psu goes nuts? or something
[12:08:21] <Frank__> im a pain in the ass :D hehehehe
[12:08:37] <CaptHindsight> say like end up have line voltage on the signal wires
[12:08:47] <CaptHindsight> highly unlikely
[12:08:58] <Frank__> lollolololo
[12:09:12] <Frank__> kabum
[12:09:26] <CaptHindsight> unless the failure is a screwdriver or metal chips into the supply
[12:09:57] <CaptHindsight> or lightning
[12:10:42] <Frank__> well yeah, pretty sure the lightning gets everything in its path thou
[12:12:00] <Frank__> as of now im running the pc in like literally over the desktop table, psu attached to nothing, until tomorrow that i finish the 3x3 foot electric enclosure
[12:13:30] <Frank__> i wanted to upload a pic but the cellphone is charging with like 2% bat.
[12:26:17] <pcw_home> lair82: yeah guessing from the symptoms, it did sort of seem that the quadrature went bad at higher speeds
[12:27:04] <pcw_home> might be fixable with a mechanical adjustment of the encoder
[12:41:32] <Frank__> pcw_home: sorry to bother, but is there a quick way to fix the 5i25 wobbling around the pci port, because i have the motherboard straight inside the electric enclosure
[12:42:48] <pcw_home> Probably have to build a bracket support
[12:43:49] <pcw_home> a long U with feet and a tapped hole maybe
[12:44:39] <plpower> hi weekend is nearing
[12:44:42] <pcw_home> or just a bar of aluminum
[12:45:04] <plpower> Frank__: ready< to plug the power on 7i76
[12:46:38] <plpower> Frank__: there are screws next to pci socket use a thin meathel plate
[12:46:39] <Frank__> yeah ill figure out something :D,
[12:46:51] <jthornton> Frank__: you need to make a bracket for it
[12:46:57] <Frank__> plpower: not yet, im waiting for the cable between the 5i25 and 7i76
[12:47:29] <plpower> dident you have one from pcw
[12:47:53] <jthornton> Frank__: http://gnipsel.com/shop/hardinge/hardinge-09.xhtml
[12:48:06] <plpower> here the 5meter cable troubled on plasma
[12:48:12] <Frank__> we had *not with mesa directly* a little confusion heh
[12:48:42] <plpower> be shure its a 1284IEEE 1:1
[12:49:09] <Frank__> yeah, i will get it eventually
[12:49:29] <Frank__> probably mid- next month
[12:49:34] <plpower> jthornton: dust coverd the board
[12:53:36] <plpower> jthornton: http://tv-profi-gmbh.de/elek_mini.jpg TODAYS electronic for a retrofit
[12:54:00] <plpower> also on 32pin hardin
[12:57:48] <plpower> Frank__: dont forget the Jumper settings
[12:58:33] <plpower> First timers struggle with the settings and pcconf most
[12:58:36] <Frank__> yeah ill be re-reading manuals
[12:59:01] <plpower> and after its a cool running
[12:59:13] <plpower> Ios a mass
[12:59:19] <plpower> IO
[13:01:23] <plpower> oh got ot ask pcw_home the spindel encoder on the 7i76 for a retrofit on 2500rpm howmany ticks can it handle
[13:01:48] <plpower> lathe
[13:01:57] <pcw_home> a few MHz normally
[13:04:02] <plpower> ok i need th check the encoder monted
[13:04:07] <pcw_home> usually the limitation is the maximum encoder count rate
[13:04:08] <pcw_home> (a few hundred KHz for most encoders)
[13:04:56] <plpower> thanks i will handel that
[13:05:20] <plpower> the boss comes back next month after Burningman
[13:05:51] <plpower> From the Cave projekt to Burningman he is the hell of a dreek
[13:06:02] <plpower> freek
[13:06:07] <plpower> geek ! ;-)
[13:06:37] <plpower> the goverment did honour him as well
[13:10:49] <plpower> im off Evening meal
[13:47:41] <malcom2073> Anyone ever mess with diode lasers for cutting thin balsawood or foam? My dad has an engraving machine with a broken spindle, and he's thinking of turning into a laser cutter for playing around with
[13:49:19] <cpresser> there are 'cheap' diode lasers on aliexpress. with 2W cutting thin balsa is possible
[13:52:37] <malcom2073> cheap being relative heh
[13:52:48] <dioz> kind of like morality
[13:53:12] <malcom2073> I'll have to look aroudn the cnczone and like forum posts, see what people say about certain ones
[13:53:18] <cpresser> the downside is that those are visible lasers; so an accidential reflection in your eye is not so nice
[13:53:47] <malcom2073> Any kind of laser, visible or not can damage your eyes. We don't plan on having the laser even have power unless the machine is sealed heh
[13:54:25] <cpresser> well, co2 lasers 'only' burn the outer layers of your eyes. surgerons can replace that :)
[13:54:46] <malcom2073> I think we have varying definitions of damage here :-P
[13:56:29] <gregcnc> push the green putton and run
[13:56:36] <gregcnc> button maybe
[13:57:19] <dioz> can... can a laser cut a mirror?
[13:58:16] <cpresser> dioz: depends on the laser.. and the mirror
[13:59:18] <cpresser> but cutting glas is not that simple. its transparent to visible light; it does absorb far-IR, but heat spreads in a weird way making it hard to cut
[13:59:52] <SpeedEvil> I am getting a 6w blue laser to play with
[14:00:20] <SpeedEvil> cpresser: plus, it can shatter on cooldown
[14:01:17] <gregcnc> You can laser endmills https://youtu.be/0eCN0MEeJQI
[14:03:13] <cpresser> SpeedEvil: afaik there is a process where the glas is cooled during lasering. with the right power this allows to cut glas panels
[14:05:46] <malcom2073> Heh
[14:05:47] <malcom2073> nice
[14:07:00] <SpeedEvil> Not your average co2 laser
[14:07:22] <jesseg> yeah I left mine in my other jacket pocket I think :P
[14:32:26] <jesseg> Hmmm... Does DXF support a filled polygon with holes?
[15:00:26] <witnit> chess anyone?
[15:44:30] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/images/equipment-shed/e-shed-16.jpg
[15:44:34] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/images/equipment-shed/e-shed-17.jpg
[15:44:53] <SpeedEvil> nice
[15:45:54] <malcom2073> Much pole, so building
[15:45:57] <malcom2073> Very cool JT
[15:50:24] <Computer_barf> Looks like you can store alot of Russian Prostitutes in that there equipment building
[15:58:52] <JT-Shop> lol
[15:59:23] <JT-Shop> 18,000 cubic feet of space :)
[15:59:35] <JT-Shop> already moving stuff inside lol
[15:59:38] <malcom2073> That's a lotta feet
[16:03:08] <Sync> too small already :D
[16:22:25] <JT-Shop> yup
[16:24:31] <Deejay> gn8
[17:09:50] <malcom2073> Guy came to look at my car, drove an hour and a half with a trailer, decided he didn't want it and wouldn't elaborate on why. Some people are odd.
[17:10:17] <CaptHindsight> wrong shade of purple?
[17:11:01] <malcom2073> Must be
[17:11:34] <malcom2073> Maybe he didn't like me, I've been called squirrely on more than one occasion
[17:12:03] <CaptHindsight> around here you have to show up and ask to see the title, they tend to be misplaced often :)
[17:12:31] <malcom2073> hah he didn't even get that far (of which I have a valid title)
[17:12:44] <CaptHindsight> this you? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9a/Rocky_the_flying_squirrel.jpg
[17:13:18] <CaptHindsight> dealing with used cars on ebay or craigslist is terrible
[17:13:32] <malcom2073> You've found me dastardly dastard!
[17:13:44] <malcom2073> Hah it is. The truck I got, guy said he had title. I got there, and the title was in someone elses name
[17:13:44] <CaptHindsight> I've had people back out of ebay sales with very long stories
[17:14:01] <malcom2073> Fortunatly, he knew a less than legit notary, so I now have the title in my name haha
[17:14:29] <malcom2073> I'm afraid to ever try ebay for anything like that
[17:14:39] <malcom2073> I imagine it's craigslist, but worse (since more coverage)
[17:14:52] <CaptHindsight> I sold one car and had trouble with another
[17:14:55] <CaptHindsight> never again
[17:15:22] <CaptHindsight> and craigslist attracts all the crazies
[17:15:39] <malcom2073> I think everyone is crazy, craigslist just opens thedoor to them
[17:15:51] <malcom2073> it's not like people are *more* crazy there, just sheer qty overwhelms
[17:16:35] <CaptHindsight> I usually have a paragraph about not accepting, checks, trades, offers from Nigeria or Bolivia, no your agent can't come and pick it up for you, etc etc
[17:17:07] <CaptHindsight> Cash only, USD, no wooden nickles
[17:17:12] <malcom2073> lol
[17:24:05] <malcom2073> I've been intending one of these days, to get them to actually mail me a check for a large amount, just so I can frame it
[17:33:29] <CaptHindsight> malcom2073: did you hear if was going to sell his E-wheel?
[17:33:43] <malcom2073> huh?
[17:34:21] <CaptHindsight> english wheel
[17:40:08] <malcom2073> Oh, yes, $1k
[17:40:38] <CaptHindsight> malcom2073: have a pic?
[17:41:13] <malcom2073> lemme see if I can find one. If not, I'll ask him for one
[17:42:19] <CaptHindsight> malcom2073: any idea of its weight?
[17:42:29] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: couple hundred pounds
[17:42:51] <malcom2073> It's a HF, but it's before they went lightweight
[17:42:57] <malcom2073> iirc
[17:43:48] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: http://carpenterswoodworking.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Metal-Shaping-Shop.jpg
[17:44:46] <CaptHindsight> oh yeah, much more sturdy than what they sell now
[17:45:22] <malcom2073> He's not in a hurry to get rid of it he says, I expect when he actually wants to get rid (when he starts needing the space) the price will come down
[17:45:27] <malcom2073> be aware, it's in MD, so not a close drive
[17:45:38] <CaptHindsight> malcom2073: how far east of Pittsburgh are y......... ahhhh
[17:45:50] <malcom2073> Westminster, MD
[17:46:02] <malcom2073> 4 hours from pittsburgh heh
[17:46:11] <malcom2073> I was just in pburg like a week ago heh
[17:46:57] <CaptHindsight> on a pallet by truck it's ~$150
[17:47:16] <malcom2073> Wow that's cheap
[17:47:42] <CaptHindsight> we get lots of 500lb drums from that area
[17:48:21] <CaptHindsight> that assumes you have a forklift or loading dock
[17:49:00] <malcom2073> Hah neither
[17:49:28] <malcom2073> It has wheels on the back, you can tilt it backwards and roll it I think
[17:49:34] <malcom2073> But yeah no other way to load it
[17:50:01] <CaptHindsight> lift gate service is usually $75 more
[17:50:19] <malcom2073> and it'd have to be palletized
[17:51:14] <malcom2073> I take it you don't have a pickup truck?
[17:51:25] <CaptHindsight> for some reason I thought you were closer to Chicago
[17:51:32] <malcom2073> heh nah, much further south
[17:51:48] <CaptHindsight> western Penn
[17:53:07] <CaptHindsight> I forget his nick but he's a pilot and in the Atlanta area
[17:53:56] <CaptHindsight> he has a machine I was interested in, if I go then it would be a road trip
[17:55:05] <malcom2073> He's not been around in a while
[17:55:21] <CaptHindsight> out west
[17:55:46] <malcom2073> s something
[17:56:51] <_methods> ssi
[17:56:55] <malcom2073> yeah him
[17:57:13] <_methods> he's been busy with his new job out in cali i think
[18:46:41] <jesseg> blah.. DXF lets you directly set the width on a lwpolyline but not an arc.. I mean there's a code for arc width but seems to be ignored.
[18:46:55] <jesseg> Maybe arcs default to bylayer for width or something
[19:09:07] <Tom_L> jesseg, http://images.autodesk.com/adsk/files/autocad_2012_pdf_dxf-reference_enu.pdf
[19:11:37] <Tom_L> http://paulbourke.net/dataformats/dxf/min3d.html
[19:11:43] <jesseg> Thanks Tom_itx !
[19:11:54] <jesseg> Tom_L, that is :D
[19:12:01] <Tom_itx> same
[19:13:21] <Tom_L> http://www.scan2cad.com/dxf/file-specification/
[19:15:01] <Tom_L> http://www.fileformat.info/format/dxf/spec/9c99326db53b44a8a3abd9fbb336b62a/view.htm
[19:15:20] <CaptHindsight> Grades 6 through 8 = $35,100, Our Maker and Fabrication Lab features 3D printers ... electronics stations featuring Arduino and Rasberry Pi
[19:15:32] <CaptHindsight> http://www.gemsworldacademy-chicago.com/Page/Academics/Tech--Innovation
[19:15:52] <CaptHindsight> your kids can hang out in #reprap for free
[19:16:03] <Tom_itx> woo hoo!
[19:16:06] <Tom_itx> can't wai
[19:16:08] <Tom_itx> t
[19:16:26] <CaptHindsight> elementary school tuition for a day school is higher than many universities
[19:16:56] <CaptHindsight> and they teach this junk
[19:31:22] <frank__> hey guys, im learning about my new OS linux debian wheezy from the iso 2.7 linuxcnc, but some stuff puzzles me out, like why synaptic pac. manager says aptitude (package manager) is installed, when it isnt??????
[19:32:08] <frank__> or why the hell i havent got permission to anything, for example changing the time, im going to the forum to search
[19:35:19] <jesseg> frank__, by default, you log in as a mere user, not the super user (i.e. the administrator account, user name root.)
[19:35:33] <jesseg> To do important things you need to do sudo <command>
[19:36:05] <jesseg> it will ask you for your regular password, then it'll let you do all the important t hings that could break the system if you aren't careful, like deleting everything
[19:36:06] <frank__> lets try
[19:37:33] <frank__> well, that was unexpected, i could use the command, then i added the password, then everything went to colors ?¿??¿??
[19:40:16] <jesseg> nice colors? lol
[19:40:50] <jesseg> like what kind of colors?
[19:41:03] <jesseg> some commands give informational text that is colorized for easy reading
[19:42:30] <jesseg> Does anyone know what "Extrusion direction" might mean in the context of an arc in a DXF file, and whether that is how I might indicate sweep direction on the arc?
[19:42:38] <frank__> nope, the hole screen went to different colours in rectangular shapes on next to the other, then i pressed enter and it went back to normal
[19:44:38] <jesseg> what command did you type?
[19:46:07] <frank__> sudo date --set xx:xx:xx
[19:46:35] <jesseg> well try it again and see if it does it again :P
[19:47:41] <mmachines> maybe you changed the time and triggered a screensaver?
[19:47:50] <jesseg> actually that makes sense....
[19:47:53] <frank__> this time it didnt
[19:48:23] <Tom_itx> disable screen savers using linuxcnc
[19:48:45] <frank__> where are those
[19:48:45] <jesseg> you mean the linuxcnc ISO comes with screen savers enabled?!
[19:48:46] <frank__> lol
[19:48:57] <frank__> exactly, i dont think so
[19:49:03] <jesseg> frank__, are you using linuxcnc ISO?
[19:49:07] <frank__> yes
[19:49:12] <frank__> 2.7
[19:49:12] <jesseg> k
[19:50:02] <frank__> yes, it was a screensaver
[19:50:50] <frank__> now i disabled them
[19:54:14] <mmachines> suspend doesn't work either with a linuxcnc machine does it?
[19:54:19] <frank__> wonder how it triggered
[19:54:21] <mmachines> obviously not if the machine was running
[19:54:39] <mmachines> but I just tried it now and it seems to lock up
[19:55:05] <mmachines> I use suspend on the other linux machine without any problem
[19:57:43] <frank__> first day on linux....
[19:57:49] <frank__> *debian*
[19:59:54] <frank__> i installed with synaptic an irc client, how im supposed to open it? cant see it anywhere
[20:01:49] <jesseg> frank__, it may be in the menus but otherwise just open a terminal and type the name of the client and press enter.
[20:01:57] <jesseg> what client was it?
[20:02:01] <frank__> irss
[20:02:12] <jesseg> oh that's a text based client, right?
[20:02:17] <frank__> irssi
[20:02:21] <frank__> yeah
[20:02:21] <jesseg> just open a terminal and type irssi and press enter
[20:03:14] <root_> lol this is jesseg using irssi. bye
[20:03:26] <frank__> lolol
[20:03:37] <frank__> what do you use
[20:03:41] <jesseg> xchat
[20:03:56] <jesseg> but irssi is nice if you like text. I used bx for years which was similar to irssi
[20:04:13] <jesseg> but lately I've been lazy and just used irssi :P
[20:04:16] <jesseg> I mean xchat
[20:04:40] <frank__> difference is text based is less resources, harder to use right?
[20:05:59] <jesseg> yup
[20:06:09] <jesseg> but xchat is pretty light weight too.
[20:06:12] <jesseg> How fast is your computer?
[20:06:15] <jesseg> and how much ram?
[20:07:31] <frank__> 1gb ram, i was thinking on upgrading, but im having max jitter 10k ns
[20:07:53] <frank__> 2.7ghz single core
[20:07:54] <jesseg> with just linuxCNC and xchat running you'd probably be OK
[20:08:07] <frank__> +mesa cards
[20:08:15] <frank__> doing the stepping
[20:11:57] <frank__> g2g, sorry for beeing a pain in the ass, as usual... lol bye
[20:13:16] <jesseg> well this DXF is just frustrating :P Can't figure out how to tell DXF file the direction of an arc..
[20:19:02] <tiwake> jesseg: it does not have a start and end angle?
[20:20:13] <jesseg> tiwake, sure it does - but let's say your start is 90 and your end is 180 - how does it know whether it's supposed to go clock wise and do a quarter turn, or coutner clockwise and do 270 degrees?
[20:20:36] <jesseg> Maybe it always goes towards the more positive number or something
[20:21:11] <tiwake> good question
[20:22:38] <jesseg> or maybe there's a BIG CIRCLE flag that tells it to take the bigger or the smaller path LOL
[20:22:50] <jesseg> or maybe there's a bit with a right or a left hand spin on it...
[20:36:12] <jesseg> Hmmm, it looks like arc is always counter-clockwise
[20:36:27] <Tom_itx> try trimming one and it will become clear
[20:36:46] <jesseg> Trimming an arc?
[20:37:03] <MacGalempsy> dang just had a belt break on the z axis, looks like im done until we get back from NOLA
[20:37:46] <MacGalempsy> just scored a bunch of alum from the recycle center, too
[20:38:06] <MacGalempsy> $1/lb
[20:39:22] <jesseg> By changing things in the DXF file with a text editor I tried a bunch of different angles. Seems it always goes left, 0 degrees is to the right, and 90 is straight up, and so on.
[20:39:41] <jesseg> If that's the rules I can deal with it.
[20:40:17] <MacGalempsy> also picked up a giant electromaget for a security door for $5, on a display case
[20:40:55] <jesseg> MacGalempsy, cool. does the electro magnet have a permanent magnet in it?
[20:41:36] <MacGalempsy> not sure, havent opened it up, but this steel bar does not stick to it without power
[20:41:55] <jesseg> oh okay
[20:42:32] <jesseg> some of them have a perm magnet to hold the door shut, then power is applied to the electromagnet to cancel the perm magnet, letting the door open -- that way power failure doesn't cause all the bank doors to swing open :D
[20:42:58] <jesseg> But the ones for holding open fire doors are electric and energized all the time, then if power fails all the doors swing shut
[20:45:57] <MacGalempsy> im going to try and make a vise out of it
[20:46:30] <MacGalempsy> maybe on my edm project
[20:50:35] <jesseg> MacGalempsy, oh cool. I've been thinking about EDM too
[20:50:47] <jesseg> also very interested in ECM
[20:51:21] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8nT0bsEIjs - on the topic of EDM (off topic)
[20:51:33] <SpeedEvil> ECM is interesting
[21:03:56] <Valen> I think some of them have a permanent magnet then they just flick it's orientation like magnetic clamps
[21:04:36] <SpeedEvil> Small motor can be enormously more energy efficient than a solenoid
[21:04:40] <MacGalempsy> the whole system is mounted on an oak board, which I believe is a sale prop
[21:07:03] <Valen> They used to use them at train stations here, (probably still do) if you hit it hard enough it'll pop open which is handy lol
[21:09:23] <malcom2073> We have a set of 500lb ones on our doors at work, they're pretty cool
[21:15:28] <jesseg> SpeedEvil, I did a (very sloppy) experiment to "machine" (lol) titanium with salt water and 48V: http://videoflier.com/movies/1445045895890083517272
[21:25:34] <SpeedEvil> hah
[21:26:43] <jesseg> I think my water flow or voltage were not enough :P
[21:29:05] <jesseg> Titanium happens to form a really tough oxide layer which insulates and protects even from chloride aggression :P
[21:31:06] <jesseg> then the oxide layer flakes off, causing an uneven ECM cut
[21:31:08] <jesseg> it's also exceedingly difficult to machine using any other method as well :P
[21:31:48] <SpeedEvil> I thought it wasn't so bad with very sharp tooling and aggressive feeds
[21:32:05] <jesseg> Carbide tooling?
[21:37:29] <norias> magic
[21:44:24] <jesseg> but yeah with a rigid machine and sharp carbide tooling it can be done. But it's definitely a tough material :D
[21:44:59] <jesseg> but it would be really neat to be able to drill large curved holes through solid blocks of titanium
[21:50:03] <Tom_itx> not as bad as cutting tungsten
[21:50:28] <tiwake> cut tungsten with wireEDM :P
[21:51:00] <Tom_itx> we used carbide
[21:51:48] <norias> tungsten carbide?
[21:52:27] <Tom_itx> yes
[21:52:35] <norias> to cut tungsten?
[21:52:43] * Tom_itx nods
[21:52:47] <norias> okie doke
[21:54:07] <Tom_itx> wing ballast
[21:54:07] <jesseg> Tom_itx, what's with tungsten?
[21:54:54] <norias> i started my career making tungsten carbide preforms
[21:55:04] <norias> it was shite
[21:55:26] <jesseg> I have a tungsten electrode out of 7KW theatre projection lamp, and I hit it with a hand file and it seemed quite easy working.
[21:55:53] <jesseg> norias, how'd you make those? EDM? diamond?
[21:55:58] <norias> jesseg: i don't think that's a carbide
[21:56:10] <norias> we made what you'd call a cemented carbide
[21:56:19] <norias> uh, you start with powder
[21:56:24] <jesseg> norias, oh, he said "not as bad as cutting tungsten"
[21:56:32] <jesseg> oh OK
[21:56:34] <norias> tungsten and and cobalt
[21:56:41] <norias> or tungsten and nickel
[21:56:56] <norias> that gets mixed with wax
[21:57:03] <norias> and pressed in to a form
[21:57:08] <jesseg> fascinating
[21:57:11] <norias> machine that really delicate thing
[21:57:21] <norias> then it goes in to an oven
[21:57:30] <norias> under pressure, in an argon environment
[21:57:50] <norias> very much like MIM, actually
[21:57:57] <jesseg> without the argon the tungsten would catch fire :P
[21:58:11] <norias> heat it just below the melting point of the binder (cobalt or nickel)
[21:58:27] <norias> wax melts out, binder forms a solid mass
[21:58:35] <norias> cool it down
[21:58:42] <jesseg> fascinating, almost like firing pottery
[21:58:47] <norias> you've got cemented tungsten carbide
[21:58:57] <norias> it's basically like concrete
[21:59:14] <norias> but instead of cement, you've got nickel or cobalt
[21:59:26] <jesseg> yeah, that's fascinating
[21:59:26] <norias> and the tungsten is the rocks floating inside it
[21:59:45] <norias> different particle sizes of each affect the properties
[21:59:54] <norias> it's been like... 10 years or so
[22:00:03] <norias> but i think most stuff uses a nickel binder
[22:00:18] <norias> and cobalt is for when you need it to be non-magnetic
[22:00:28] <norias> (it could be the other way around, i forget)
[22:00:47] <norias> basically, the greater the proportion of binder, the tougher
[22:00:54] <norias> less binder, harder
[22:00:59] <jesseg> yeah makes sense
[22:01:02] <norias> so you can engineer the mix for what you need
[22:01:06] <jesseg> yeah
[22:01:30] <norias> most of it was stuff that was going to surface or centerless ground at the purchasers facility
[22:01:54] <jesseg> They'd finish it with diamonds?
[22:01:56] <norias> there was a whole department for doing blocks with wire edm start holes in them
[22:02:10] <norias> no, usually finish with grinding or edm
[22:02:18] <norias> well, yeah, the grinding wheels are diamond
[22:02:26] <norias> my next job was in a tool and die shop
[22:02:31] <jesseg> I wonder when we talk about carbide endmills and such if it's all really cemented carbide
[22:02:37] <norias> grinding tungsten carbide stamping die parts
[22:02:49] <norias> i'm pretty sure it is
[22:04:39] <jesseg> that would explain "Fine grain carbide" tools - they just grind the carbide finer :P
[22:04:46] <norias> no
[22:05:02] <norias> that means the pieces of carbide in the binder are smaller
[22:05:16] <norias> it gets smashed up at the tungsten supplier
[22:05:21] <norias> and basically sifted
[22:05:24] <jesseg> yeah
[22:05:41] <norias> the smallest grains pack tighter and you end up with less binder
[22:06:01] <norias> nickel and cobalt are still pretty hard
[22:06:18] <norias> tungsten isn't really used, afaik, for it's hardness
[22:06:26] <norias> obviously there is an advantage there
[22:06:31] <norias> but it's reall about hot hardness
[22:06:32] <jesseg> I never had any cobalt but nickel is pretty awful tough too :P
[22:06:54] <norias> tungsten remains hard at high temperatures
[22:07:04] <norias> steel gets soft at those temps
[22:07:09] <jesseg> cobalt is pretty good in that regard too, isn't it?
[22:07:11] <norias> well, less hard
[22:07:16] <jesseg> hence the cobalt drill bits
[22:07:16] <norias> yeah, i think so
[22:07:43] <norias> although, modern PM steels
[22:07:54] <norias> have like 80% of the hot hardness of Wco
[22:07:59] <norias> in most conditions
[22:08:07] <norias> at like 50% of the cost
[22:08:34] <norias> heat is the major driver of edge wear / failure in end mills
[22:09:01] <norias> most machinists are doing sub-optimal shit anyway
[22:09:20] <norias> good PM steels with the right geometry and feeds and speeds
[22:09:24] <norias> with good tool holders
[22:09:31] <norias> are surprisingly good
[22:09:46] <jesseg> interesting
[22:09:57] <norias> usually folks are not using an "optimal" tool design
[22:10:21] <norias> hard to do without spending tons of cash in a job shop environment
[22:10:28] <jesseg> yeah
[22:10:34] <norias> but for production stuff, i've consulted with the tooling manufacturers
[22:10:58] <norias> and i've seen some HSS tooling that ripped through like it was nothing
[22:11:06] <norias> and made tons of parts before failure
[22:11:13] <norias> geometry matters
[22:11:42] <jesseg> fascinating
[22:11:59] <norias> there's enough science to end mill geometry that i've learned to treat my end mill suppliers like partners
[22:12:13] <norias> are you a machinist, jeseg?
[22:12:18] <norias> sorry i'm rambling
[22:12:32] <jesseg> norias, just a hobby machinist - and you're not rambling, this is very very interesting to me!
[22:12:59] <norias> i think it's interesting, too
[22:13:02] <norias> but most people don't
[22:13:16] <norias> i like to experiment and actually do all the math right
[22:13:26] <tiwake> who is complaining about machinists?
[22:13:33] <norias> try to do the taylor tool life
[22:13:41] <norias> and calculate the HP requirements for cuts, etc
[22:13:59] <jesseg> HP as in Horse Power?
[22:14:05] <norias> smaller machines often just don't have the HP to use tungsten to it's full advantage
[22:14:06] <norias> yeah
[22:14:24] <norias> i used to teach a class for hobby machinists
[22:14:26] <tiwake> norias: the goal for nice tooling is to do one of two things, tool life and production speed
[22:14:33] <tiwake> or both
[22:14:39] <norias> beginning turning
[22:14:42] <jesseg> oh yeah my toy machine isn't very rigid so I know what you mean there :P
[22:14:50] <norias> one of the first things i'd do is take a really heavy cut
[22:14:57] <norias> that almost but didn't stall the lathe
[22:15:05] <tiwake> heh
[22:15:07] <norias> ( around 7HP I think)
[22:15:24] <norias> just to show... it works, and it's not necessarily bad
[22:15:26] <jesseg> haha I bet that ribbon was coming off red hot :P
[22:15:33] <norias> make them damn machines work for their money
[22:15:33] <tiwake> norias: about half of the machines I've worked with will break tools before they even think about stalling
[22:15:58] <tiwake> like the one I was working with today
[22:15:59] <norias> tiwake: i didn't mention this was for hobby folks, right?
[22:16:00] <tiwake> heh
[22:16:33] <norias> i've almost stalled a 15HP lathe turning 304 stainless
[22:16:41] <norias> the finish was amazing
[22:16:48] <tiwake> I donno, I'm just sitting here in bed, thinking about the motor housing I bored out and pressed a sleeve in, to be finished off tomorrow
[22:16:52] <norias> and it cut dead on size, it was pretty cool
[22:16:56] <SpeedEvil> :)
[22:17:05] <tiwake> and people were talking, so I did some talking
[22:17:11] <norias> decent
[22:17:18] <norias> talking is good
[22:17:30] <tiwake> talking with fingers is the best talking
[22:17:33] <norias> what kind of stuff do you run?
[22:17:39] <norias> boring mills?
[22:17:56] <tiwake> have done pretty much everything with conventional lathes and mills
[22:18:18] <tiwake> (including CNC)
[22:18:40] <norias> good deal
[22:18:46] <tiwake> it is
[22:19:21] <tiwake> hobbies increased by several lifetimes after working in the industry that I could make anything I wanted :P
[22:19:40] <norias> heh
[22:19:59] <tiwake> and here I sit, on my butt
[22:20:05] <tiwake> in bed
[22:20:40] <tiwake> cant do too much with $50 for the next week though
[22:20:56] <SpeedEvil> you need a 2d printer
[22:20:58] <tiwake> until first check comes in
[22:21:02] <SpeedEvil> print more $50s
[22:21:03] <norias> ?
[22:21:39] <tiwake> SpeedEvil: heh, save the government money by self-printing, like they do for the post office... print your own postage
[22:22:34] <norias> intolerable acts
[22:22:59] <tiwake> by the government for printing excessive amounts of money? yeah it is
[22:23:02] <norias> machining is fun
[22:23:12] <Tom_itx> iirc the lathes i ran had 25-30hp spindle motors
[22:23:12] <norias> huge area of knowledge
[22:23:33] <norias> too short of a life to know / do it all
[22:24:11] <tiwake> norias: if you plan on turning aluminum, copper, magnesium, any kind of plastic... then get shear geometry tooling
[22:24:26] <norias> tiwake: i'll keep it in mind
[22:24:42] <norias> who makes / sells it?
[22:24:47] <norias> any specific recommendations?
[22:24:49] <tiwake> norias: http://www.robertsonprecision.com/SHEAR_GEOMETRY%C2%AE
[22:24:57] <tiwake> independent company
[22:25:04] <tiwake> thats all they make
[22:25:32] <tiwake> I used to turn flank tons of copper, a good amount of aluminum and plastics
[22:25:33] <norias> neat stuff
[22:25:49] <tiwake> shear geometry is badass for that stuff
[22:26:07] <norias> i assume the inserts come in "standard" sizes and shapes
[22:26:14] <norias> so i don't have to buy all new tooling?
[22:26:33] <tiwake> they only sell one insert... not sure if its compatible with other inserts
[22:26:54] <tiwake> $120 tool holder and something like $20/insert
[22:27:00] <norias> not bad
[22:27:20] <norias> not sure if it makes sense for me, right now
[22:27:32] <norias> the shop i run is not... run time constrained
[22:27:39] <tiwake> heh
[22:27:43] <norias> i'm definitely not trying to make stuff go faster
[22:27:57] <norias> it's all one-off stuff
[22:27:59] <tiwake> the chips that come off are a lot nicer, won't shred your hands
[22:28:09] <norias> i think my biggest lot size has been 10
[22:28:26] <tiwake> (if you get the chip breaker insert)
[22:28:31] <norias> and folks tried to convince me to just sub it out
[22:28:32] <Tom_itx> that would suck if all you had was cnc's
[22:28:40] <tiwake> Tom_itx: why?
[22:28:45] <Tom_itx> setup time
[22:28:53] <norias> yeah, funny story
[22:28:58] <Tom_itx> for a tiny batch
[22:29:01] <norias> the shop was just cnc when i took it over
[22:29:08] <Tom_itx> costs the same for a large one
[22:29:11] <norias> it's not now
[22:29:13] <tiwake> Tom_itx: it depends on how the shop is set up... a CNC shop set up for one-off stuff can be very efficient
[22:29:36] <tiwake> it would require a lot of tooling on hand though... heh
[22:29:45] <tiwake> like... a lot...
[22:30:26] <norias> http://www.nrec.ri.cmu.edu/
[22:30:27] <norias> i run the machine shop there
[22:31:08] <Tom_itx> Washington st?
[22:31:12] <tiwake> norias: get any drawings with a tolerance of 0 yet?
[22:31:22] <norias> hahaha
[22:31:37] <norias> i had one that was +/- 0
[22:31:40] <norias> in error
[22:31:54] <jesseg> lol
[22:32:11] <norias> i actually got pretty close
[22:32:28] <tiwake> still not 0 though
[22:32:29] <norias> those engineers don't know how to use micrometers anyway
[22:32:43] <norias> if it's less than .001" they can't tell
[22:32:44] <tiwake> s/micrometers/anything/
[22:33:01] <tiwake> they click and drag stuff around with a mouse
[22:33:12] <tiwake> idiots
[22:33:13] <jesseg> lol tell'em to just round to the nearest thou and the part will be the exact right size:P
[22:33:17] <norias> ours are actually hands on
[22:33:26] <norias> they come in and use the manual machines
[22:33:26] <tiwake> the engineers I deal with are too
[22:33:31] <tiwake> does not make them idiots
[22:33:37] <norias> this is true
[22:33:45] <tiwake> erm
[22:34:04] <norias> oh, i just had a great idea
[22:34:04] <tiwake> *does not make them any less idiotic
[22:34:13] <norias> i need to put a speaker inside one of the CNC's
[22:34:21] <jesseg> LOL
[22:34:22] <norias> with a pre-recorded crashing sound
[22:34:30] <norias> and a little button i can keep in my pocket
[22:34:44] <norias> so when they try to argue with me about how something should be machined
[22:34:51] <norias> i can hit the button, and run away
[22:35:18] <tiwake> norias: http://nsc.aero/ http://www.hallcoindustries.com/ worked with the engineers at both of those places a lot... idiots...
[22:35:52] <tiwake> while they are hands on, they make stuff way more complicated than it has any right to be
[22:36:22] <norias> heh
[22:36:56] <norias> my standard answer is
[22:37:04] <norias> "I dunno. Go run an FEA on it."
[22:37:12] <norias> because i know that'll keep 'em busy for a bit
[22:38:00] <tiwake> few people really know how to make stuff
[22:38:38] <tiwake> there is one engineer that I loved to work with http://spathengineering.com/
[22:38:54] <jesseg> yeah I don't. I just sort of grind away - then measure, then grind away some more, then measure, then start over :P
[22:39:13] <tiwake> he actually knew how to make stuff, make it well, design it well, design it cheaply, sanely... all around awesome person
[22:39:52] <tiwake> I like to think I can too, but I guess it kinda depends
[22:40:31] <tiwake> _methods is good at it too
[22:40:44] <tiwake> and about half of everyone in this channel
[22:41:07] <tiwake> maybe 3/4
[22:42:55] <norias> eh
[22:43:05] <norias> i feel like i have a lot to learn, yet
[22:43:15] <tiwake> don't we all
[22:43:43] <norias> i'm starting to learn welding
[22:43:57] <norias> mostly because the shop i run has a welder
[22:44:06] <norias> i.e. person who welds
[22:44:20] <norias> and it'd help if i knew how that shit worked
[22:44:36] <tiwake> I'm staying out of welding, for the most part... there are more good welders around than good machinists
[22:44:48] <norias> oh, true
[22:45:02] <norias> but, i want to know the rudiments so that i can be useful in discussion
[22:45:45] <tiwake> though its more difficult to get somebody to weld something like titanium with a tig welder
[22:45:57] <tiwake> or aluminum or whatever
[22:46:09] <norias> our shop does aluminum all the time
[22:46:14] <norias> more aluminum than steel
[22:46:21] <SpeedEvil> copper welding seems fun
[22:46:54] <norias> you can weld copper?
[22:46:59] <tiwake> no
[22:48:10] <SpeedEvil> In principle you can
[22:48:19] <SpeedEvil> In practice, you probably shouldn't try mostly.
[22:48:37] <tiwake> make your own heatsink
[22:49:45] <SpeedEvil> Neglecting stuff, copper is ~4* as hard to weld as Al
[22:50:10] <norias> make the heat sink from aluminum
[22:50:22] <tiwake> SpeedEvil: meh, like everything else, just do it
[22:50:43] <norias> easy to work, pretty good thermal conductivity
[22:50:49] <SpeedEvil> By 'hard' - I don't mean difficult - but thermal input to the weld zone
[22:50:54] <tiwake> norias: copper is like 2x better thermal conductivity as aluminum
[22:51:00] <norias> sure
[22:51:05] <norias> but, still not bad
[22:51:19] <SpeedEvil> Not for thinnish
[22:51:24] <norias> just thinner sections, more surface area
[22:51:24] <tiwake> it means the heatsink can be half the size
[22:51:34] <norias> half the surface area
[22:51:42] <SpeedEvil> For a copper heatsink, it's not that simple
[22:51:57] <SpeedEvil> It means that the interface zone can be half the area (sort of, not really)
[22:52:21] <SpeedEvil> Outside that, you rapidly reach a point when air-metal thermal resistance matters more
[22:52:27] <norias> true
[22:52:37] <SpeedEvil> Plus, heatpipes are _much_ better than copper for that
[23:18:16] <jesseg> djdelorie, are you *the* Dj Delorie, or just a fan? DJGPP or whatever it was that opened up the world of C to me, freeing me from QBasic
[23:18:36] <djdelorie> I am that DJ Delorie :-)
[23:18:39] <witnit> qbasic, whaaaa what year is it
[23:18:56] <djdelorie> witnit: djgpp is over two decades old
[23:19:27] <jesseg> djdelorie, wondeful! Thank you so much! I can't tell you how excited I was as a youngster to actually be able to compile real binaries (and for free) on dos!!
[23:19:37] <djdelorie> You're welcome :-)
[23:19:53] <tiwake> say what now?
[23:21:58] <witnit> A long time ago in a galaxy far far away.....http://mitja.podreka.net/system/files/gorillas.jpg
[23:22:02] <jesseg> I pushed qbasic to it's 64K limit and it was so frustrating.. and slow.. then a friend got internet, and I'd dial up with my trusty 386 running dos with the arachne web browser and some dos IP stack, and somehow managed to find out about DJGPP. It was amazing!
[23:27:18] <witnit> small world, very cool history you have on your work!
[23:29:28] <norias> apparently Pennsylvania is now tropical