#linuxcnc | Logs for 2016-08-08

[02:18:40] <Deejay> moin
[02:38:29] <Paka23> hi all
[02:40:45] <XXCoder> hey
[02:47:06] <Paka23> do you think LinuxCNC can be use for a press brake ?
[02:47:43] <Paka23> :/
[02:47:47] <XXCoder> CNC means computer number control
[02:47:50] <XXCoder> it can do anything
[02:48:05] <XXCoder> though stranger uses you is likely to have to hand code gcode
[02:51:17] <Paka23> therefore not fit for this type of machine ...
[02:51:31] <Paka23> thanks :)
[02:51:41] <[cubert]> Paka23 maybe use arduino + actuators?
[02:52:00] <XXCoder> dunno others is likely to know more than me heh
[02:52:05] <[cube]> sup XXCoder
[02:52:12] <XXCoder> just chilling heh you?
[02:52:17] <[cube]> same
[02:52:25] <[cube]> just did a whole bunch of cutting
[02:52:28] <[cube]> takin a break
[02:52:45] <[cube]> got my machine goin pretty well
[02:52:46] <[cube]> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wvOn5dAN8k
[02:53:27] <XXCoder> looking
[02:53:35] <[cube]> still need to clean up the damn shed lol
[02:53:49] <XXCoder> yeah cleainbg is annoying part
[02:54:10] <XXCoder> you make signs or what?
[02:54:16] <[cube]> lol
[02:54:20] <[cube]> i made A sign
[02:54:28] <[cube]> this will be the first one ever
[02:54:31] <[cube]> for a buddy
[02:54:38] <[cube]> so far turning out ok
[02:54:45] <XXCoder> video is showing second run?
[02:54:50] <XXCoder> different style
[02:54:50] <[cube]> yea two runs
[02:54:56] <XXCoder> ahh ok
[02:55:00] <[cube]> the first run is the back plate
[02:55:06] <[cube]> fron tis the actual letters
[02:55:10] <XXCoder> ahh
[02:55:14] <[cube]> that pop out
[02:55:16] <[cube]> gonna backlight it
[02:55:25] <[cube]> no idea how the final product will look
[02:56:10] <archivist> Paka23, I see no real problem using it for that, I do my press work manually though as it is generally one offs
[02:56:40] <XXCoder> yeah one offs its just better to do manually as setup time is longer
[05:18:17] <jthornton> or morning
[05:19:38] <XXCoder> or infinite darkness
[06:53:08] <XXCoder> http://futurism.com/physicists-combine-gold-with-titanium-and-quadruple-its-strength/
[06:53:20] <XXCoder> Ti + Au = even harder
[06:53:39] <XXCoder> AND more immune to stuff in body so better for implants
[07:02:58] <miss0r> But not a cheaper solution i bet :)
[07:03:13] <XXCoder> yeah nah lol
[07:03:27] <XXCoder> ti is bit expensive, and Au even more. :P
[07:13:10] <miss0r> got booted off apparently
[07:13:31] <miss0r> XXCoder: Did I show you my homemade grinder attactment for the lathe?
[07:23:09] <archivist> use a real client to stay connected :)
[07:23:18] <archivist> and not via wifi
[12:53:54] <plpower> _methods: zlog is bback
[12:56:09] <plpower> https://github.com/cnc-club
[13:03:31] <Tom_itx> yeah, power outtage here
[13:05:19] <CaptHindsight> Tom_itx: weather or unknown cause?
[13:06:57] <Tom_itx> weather, not really a power outtage just bad internet during the storm
[13:06:57] <CaptHindsight> or mosquitos
[13:07:13] <CaptHindsight> Today's Mosquito Forecast
[13:07:13] <CaptHindsight> EXTREME Mosquito activity is extreme
[13:07:24] <Tom_itx> and i had to leave so i didn't have time to get it all back online
[13:07:32] <Deejay> moar food for frogs
[13:07:45] <CaptHindsight> I guess an 11 would be "Holy Crap RUN!!!!"
[13:07:54] <Tom_itx> 2" + overnight
[13:10:08] <plpower> can someone help on the Computer config gowngrading from wheez to 12.04 at grub stage
[13:10:32] <Tom_itx> we just clowngrade here
[13:10:54] <plpower> is it posible to only overright the mbr with grub2 from 12.04 system
[13:11:13] <plpower> down ,-)
[13:11:28] <CaptHindsight> does Ubuntu also mess with grub and have their own versions?
[13:11:39] <Tom_itx> i was messing with a hdd last week and had to write zeros to the first few sectors of the drive to get rid of grub
[13:11:49] <Tom_itx> so you may need to do that, i dunno
[13:11:54] <Tom_itx> my issue was with windows
[13:12:13] <plpower> ok
[13:12:43] <Tom_itx> i quit trying to 'fix' OS's a long time ago. i found it's easier to just do fresh installs and be done with it
[13:13:11] <plpower> agreee
[13:13:35] <plpower> but on limited www its always alot of traffic
[13:13:41] <Tom_itx> but even though i formatted the drive and repartitioned it for windows, grub was still there
[13:14:05] <plpower> partitiontable delate on gparted
[13:14:22] <Tom_itx> i was using windows tools at first
[13:15:05] <plpower> gparted is better on this
[13:15:29] <plpower> Gates ware dont touch mbr
[13:16:19] <Tom_itx> cat /dev/zero > /dev/sda
[13:16:21] <Tom_itx> worked
[13:16:38] <Tom_itx> then i bailed out after the first few sectors
[13:17:15] <Tom_itx> fdisk /mbr will restore it
[13:17:23] <witnit> plpower: I heard you can with this bootsect /nt60 SYS /mbr
[13:17:27] <witnit> but i have not tested
[13:18:57] <plpower> i will sty with the internel grub updates eighter from debian or ubuntu
[13:22:37] <plpower> ok im off workday finish here sun is out will doe some cycling
[13:30:30] <ReadError> hey, rebulding my linuxcnc box after a storm took it out, however running in to an issue
[13:30:36] <ReadError> E: Unable to locate package linux-image-rt-amd64
[13:30:44] <ReadError> did the rt image get removed?
[13:31:12] <Tom_itx> older package?
[13:31:20] <Tom_itx> may have been moved
[13:31:47] <Tom_itx> http://paste.ubuntu.com/21630521/
[13:31:52] <Tom_itx> jt gave me that the other day
[13:31:57] <Tom_itx> dunno if it helps or not
[13:32:07] <ReadError> ahhh, Im using master
[13:32:20] <ReadError> so install the kernel from 2.7 then linuxcnc from master should be okay?
[13:33:01] <Tom_itx> that's on you bro... i'm not makin that call :)
[13:33:25] <Tom_itx> would i try it? hell ya
[13:38:08] <ReadError> bah
[13:38:12] <ReadError> yea still cant get the kernel
[13:38:29] <ReadError> also im on wheezy not lucid, all this worked fine before hmm
[13:39:23] <ReadError> oh so linux-image-rt-686-pae exist
[13:39:34] <ReadError> linux-image-rt-amd64 doesnt
[13:40:07] <CaptHindsight> after playing with HAL configs a bit more I wish that Signal and Pins were somehow obvious vs having to try to run it to check errors
[13:41:14] <CaptHindsight> since NET (token) Signal Pin Pin Pin .... is the proper order you still have no way of knowing if you have a bad HAL config until you try to run it
[13:41:54] <ReadError> ahhh since it installed as PAE its not wanting to switch arch
[13:42:29] <CaptHindsight> if you don't know all the names of Pins and Signals you don't know if someone has them out of order in a line of HAL config
[13:45:15] <PCW_> you can get the names of all pins with "halcmd show pin"
[13:54:31] <CaptHindsight> yes, you have to run a command to find out or try running it
[13:54:58] <PCW_> you are certainly free to rename all signals blah.blah.blah_sig if you wish,
[13:55:00] <PCW_> in fact this could be done with one line filter
[13:56:33] <CaptHindsight> nah, i just hate software
[13:58:29] <witnit> have you tried turning it off and back on again?
[13:58:31] <witnit> =D
[13:59:19] <witnit> I wish i was good/interested in something else sometimes like guitar.. or fishing
[14:06:10] <CaptHindsight> I wish they had made more IT Crowd episodes
[15:05:51] <ReadError> 2.8.0-pre1 considered usable stable?
[15:28:04] <JT-Shop> usually
[15:48:51] <Tom_itx> 2+ " last night
[15:51:30] <_methods> that mess is headin this way too
[15:52:06] <dioz> all i have left to do at this place is grills... and i don't think i have any that fit. and i'm missing sleeves.
[15:52:27] <Tom_itx> slowly
[15:55:15] <_methods> yeah looks like most of it will be here wed
[15:56:20] <_methods> doesn't look like it's moving very fast
[15:56:29] <_methods> florida is gettin blasted
[16:04:13] <dioz> with blasters
[16:10:01] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=797eG7wPYj4
[16:26:17] <Deejay> gn8
[17:20:40] <Guest54893> Why?
[17:21:03] <Guest54893> Guess I'm not used to this.
[17:21:25] <Guest54893> But I do need info.
[17:22:31] <Guest54893> Been running EMC2 and mother board failed.
[17:22:49] <Guest54893> Challenge now is find something to replace it.
[17:23:19] <PCW_> Mach4 :-)
[17:25:07] <Guest54893> Seems like the new technology has far surpassed what EMC2 needs.
[17:25:58] <Tom_itx> because your nick isn't registered
[17:26:11] <Tom_itx> bye bye
[17:29:45] <guest> hi
[17:32:07] <guest> Where can I find a computer that is compatible witth EMC2?
[17:32:44] <andypugh> guest: Most will work, but some better than others.
[17:32:56] <andypugh> PCW_: What was that Core2 one you liked?
[17:35:11] <guest> I wish I knew. My old motherboard failed, need to find another pc, But hate to go out and buy an old refurbished one that fails latency tests.
[17:35:30] <andypugh> Are you using the patport?
[17:35:30] <dioz> what do you need for a pc?
[17:36:00] <dioz> i can find quad core intels with 8gb of ram for $150
[17:36:10] <guest> 3 parallell ports
[17:36:29] <dioz> so you need a full size atx board?
[17:36:48] <dioz> are they pci? pcix?
[17:37:09] <guest> I think pci
[17:37:26] <dioz> i imagine they make parallel to usb adapters?
[17:37:33] <dioz> prolific maybe
[17:37:53] <andypugh> If you are using three parports then switching to a Mesa card might make sense, and will make latency less critical
[17:38:01] <guest> My old one used an add on card that provided 2 additional parallel ports
[17:38:41] <guest> Mesa card?
[17:38:57] <andypugh> Its a card, from Mesa
[17:39:10] <guest> I'll check it out.
[17:39:23] <PCW_> andypugh: the DC7800s are pretty decent for $30-40 or so
[17:39:27] <andypugh> http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=83_84&product_id=215 for example
[17:40:08] <dioz> i'm drunk off a single beer
[17:40:22] <dioz> 710ml of 6% alcohol
[17:40:28] <dioz> in muh belly
[17:40:38] <andypugh> PCW_: I don’t think guest will get his three parportson to a DC7800
[17:48:17] <guest> At $199 I think there are much cheaoer solutions to that mesa approach.
[17:51:45] <ReadError> dioz I would appreciate it if you quit following me around, thanks.
[17:53:05] <guest> Is that DC7800 an HP?
[17:53:25] <PCW_> andypugh: three PCI slots
[17:54:03] <guest> Thanks, I'll check that out.
[17:55:39] <PCW_> (thats the SFF version)
[17:56:27] <PCW_> might be a pain to find low profile parallel port brackets
[17:58:29] <ReadError> hmm so the configuration converter doesnt work outright, it does however work if you run through stepconf
[17:58:48] <ReadError> wasnt sure if known issue but didnt get enough details on the failure
[18:05:20] <jesseg> Anyone know or have a simple example of a minimal polyline in DXF format?
[18:26:23] <mmachines> Hi all, installed linuxcnc a few days ago and I have a basic config working, and motors moving (off the machine)
[18:26:31] <mmachines> still a lot to learn
[18:27:02] <mmachines> one of the configs that I'm using as a reference looks odd to me and I have a question about it
[18:27:44] <mmachines> the config has tandom steppers for the y axis
[18:28:17] <mmachines> using mesa 5i25 - one motor is set to velocity control mode, one is position mode
[18:28:21] <mmachines> can that be correct?
[18:29:26] <mmachines> it seems that you would want to choose one or the other no?
[18:30:37] <PCW_> yes I would expect to use one mode for all step/dir interfaces
[18:30:42] <MacGalempsy> I dont think you can have velocity mode without feedback
[18:31:05] <mmachines> ok it does use pid
[18:31:20] <PCW_> you do have feedback (from the stepgens position counter)
[18:34:23] <Tom_itx> Jymmm
[18:35:29] <Tom_itx> jesseg what for?
[18:35:47] <Tom_itx> pretty sure i can produced one if needed
[18:37:19] <Tom_itx> spline ok?
[18:38:44] <jesseg> Tom_itx, I'm trying to digitize a pattern for a friend for his friend's plasma cutter. My 36x30 inch digitizer puts out nice text so that's no problem, but plasma cutter operator wants DXF.. so I write script to convert to DXF but DXF makes head hurt and documentation not help me :D
[18:39:21] <jesseg> Tom_itx, my source data is just points
[18:39:52] <jesseg> btw Thanks for any help :D
[18:39:57] <Tom_itx> i can save a spline to dxf if that's what you need
[18:41:00] <jesseg> That might help, but a POLYLINE might help more since it more accurately reflects the source data I have..
[18:41:49] <Meduza> jesseg: what format do you have the data in?
[18:42:33] <jesseg> Meduza, text, inch X/Y coordinates, start point, midway points, and endpoint. I'm a perl scripter so I can easily convert it to any format I can understand.
[18:42:59] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/temp/Part1.DXF
[18:43:08] <jesseg> Thanks Tom!
[18:43:18] <Tom_itx> simple spline saved as dxf
[18:43:38] <Tom_itx> i can probably get a polyline
[18:43:55] <jesseg> Tom_itx, no need,
[18:43:57] <mmachines> FYI - the "two mode" config: http://pastebin.com/8jahrpwx
[18:44:03] <Tom_itx> that was just sitting in front of me
[18:44:07] <mmachines> I suppose it "work" but is not ideal
[18:45:47] <jesseg> Tom_itx, yeah, I see that the cad program spits out a metric boatload of other junk. As best as I can tell, all that extra junk can be left out if not needed but the way it uses macros and variables and everything confuses me :D
[18:49:40] <guest> PCW_ I ordered a DC7800 from Ebay $50 including shipping.
[18:50:11] <Tom_itx> 6 points in that file
[18:51:14] <jesseg> Tom_itx, yeah and it took three thousand, four hundred, and thirty six lines of code to describe those 6 points :D
[18:51:26] <Tom_itx> hah
[18:51:47] <jesseg> A mere 23K bytes for 6 lousy points :D
[18:52:09] <Tom_itx> but so descriptive...
[18:52:36] <jesseg> LOL.. or not.. :P
[18:52:44] <Tom_itx> i can do a regular polyline in smartcam but i don't see how to save it like you want it
[18:53:12] <jesseg> they label axes with with numbers like "10,20," for pete's sake! lol Whatever happened to X and Y? :P
[18:54:58] <jesseg> Tom_itx, can you see if my hand-made DXF file works? It's just a few lines bit it shuold draw a > or something http://videoflier.com/files/test.dxf
[18:55:18] <Tom_itx> i can try to load it
[18:55:21] <jesseg> thanks!
[18:55:51] <Tom_itx> http://videoflier.com/files/test.dxf
[18:55:55] <Tom_itx> sry
[18:57:07] <Tom_itx> catia didn't like it, lemme try SW
[18:58:19] <Tom_itx> nope nothing there
[18:58:25] <Tom_itx> but at least it tried
[19:00:54] <Tom_itx> 128 bytes wasn't enough to process :D
[19:03:07] <Tom_itx> your digitizer can't save as dxf or such?
[19:03:20] <Tom_itx> i used to do flat patterns from mylar that way
[19:04:20] <jesseg> Tom_itx, my digitizer is an old electrostatic roll up with an RS232 port LOL. But hey, it streams pen position and button/tip switch status out the serial port in any number of binary or ASCII formats getting the numbers is no problem.
[19:05:57] <Tom_itx> i can't remember how i brought those in now...
[19:06:06] <Tom_itx> but i did it all in smartcam at the time
[19:06:16] <jesseg> here's something similar to mine: http://www.gtcocalcomp.com/large-format-digitizers/roll-up-3
[19:06:44] <jesseg> except mine is old and RS232.
[19:07:03] <Tom_itx> the one i had was a solid pad but i'm sure did the same thing
[19:07:20] <jesseg> yeah
[19:07:44] <jesseg> well maybe I can find a gerber to DXF converter LOL.
[19:07:55] <Tom_itx> if you need more test just holler
[19:08:20] <Tom_itx> gonna shower and kick back a whiel
[19:08:54] <jesseg> Thanks Tom!
[19:12:43] <Tom_itx> i may have brought those in as a point cloud or such in 2d smartcam
[19:12:49] <Tom_itx> then connected the dots
[19:13:32] <Tom_itx> made tons of hydroblocks and sheet dies that way
[19:14:03] <Tom_itx> non critical sheet parts
[19:36:03] <Frank_15> is ubuntu ver. 16 good for linuxcnc?
[19:44:47] <mmachines> I'm new so don't know but I was planning to install on ubuntu 12.04 since it was mentioned in the docs
[19:44:49] <FloppyDisk> Frank_15, I don't think so, supported platforms: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html scroll down..
[19:45:04] <mmachines> but when I came on IRC I was pointed to instructions for mint 17.3 and that worked for me
[19:47:14] <mmachines> I didn't really want to go back to ubuntu 12 anyway
[19:48:17] <PCW_> I know there are some issues with LinuxCNC on Mint 18 (based on Ubuntu 16.04)
[19:51:16] <Frank_15> what do you run pcw
[19:51:34] <PCW_> Master seems to work OK ( Only tried axis, no other GUI stuff tested) dxf2gcode is busted (python issues) 2.7.x is broken in entertaining ways
[19:52:01] <Frank_15> right now im on 1ghz ram, i can upgrade, ver 16 recommends 2ghz...
[19:52:10] <TurBoss> debian and master here
[19:52:31] <Tom_itx> all you bleeding edge souls...
[19:52:45] <Frank_15> i've never ever touched linux os lol
[19:52:56] <Frank_15> oh boy.. its going to be an uphill
[19:53:02] <Frank_15> heh
[19:53:07] <Tom_itx> not so bad really
[19:53:33] <PCW_> I have a couple 3 LinuxCNC test machines , currently wheezy on one , Mint 17.3 on another, ubuntu 14.04 on another
[19:54:19] <PCW_> (and mint 18 but its not really ready )
[19:55:04] <Frank_15> hmmm
[19:55:21] <Frank_15> im going to go read their pro/cons
[19:55:46] <PCW_> its stable and has been up for a couple weeks running one of our Ethernet motion cards but as I said, there are issues...
[19:57:07] <Frank_15> lol
[19:57:18] <Frank_15> im with the 5i25 7i76 set
[19:57:28] <Frank_15> im going vanilla
[19:57:29] <Frank_15> heh
[19:57:31] <PCW_> if you want something less spartan then wheezy, mint 17.3 is probably a good choice
[19:58:00] <Frank_15> and by spartan you mean?? :D
[19:58:12] <PCW_> bare
[19:58:26] <PCW_> dirt floor
[19:58:57] <Valen> missing firmware for NIC's and the like is the biggest show stopper for me
[19:59:53] <PCW_> yeah its GPL clean, the tradeoff is the user pain that causes
[20:00:34] <Frank_15> i've just read that debian is created by xx, ubuntu uses some of debian and mint uses some of ubuntu
[20:00:35] <Frank_15> hahah
[20:01:29] <Frank_15> i just want something reliable to use with linuxcnc, im running a 150kg gantry that i dont want to tip off the main structure :DD then, im happy eitherway
[20:04:15] <PCW_> My experience is that its quite reliable (uptimes close to a year running linuxcnc without incident)
[20:04:16] <PCW_> my testing is long term but not doing a wide range of stuff however
[20:05:29] <Frank_15> thanks for the info peter, :D appreciate it
[20:06:43] <CaptHindsight> start to build a Gentoo Linuxcnc system and Mint 17 will feel easy :)
[20:07:44] <Valen> linux from scratch all the way!
[20:11:34] <Frank_15> im reading some of this main distributions and debian is kind of seducing me, im quite handy with gathering information and learning, and reading. but i dont know if im making a mistake picking the "hard stuff"(but reliable) rather than the cutting edge, easy to use, less reliable peers of debian
[20:15:00] <Valen> eh, 80% of the time it works every time
[20:15:19] <Valen> no harm in sticking the cd/usb in and seeing if it all works first go for you
[20:16:04] <MacGalempsy> quick question for those of you using the tool table. Does LinuxCNC actually recognize T00 or does Tool 0 equate to T01?
[20:30:15] <malcom2073> I like debian, I use it about once every 4-5 years when it's relevant, then switch away after it becomes outdated until next time heh
[20:37:08] <Frank_15> lol
[20:39:01] <MacGalempsy> hey malcom. I am at the point where I wrote a gcode program for the cnc, it loads into lcnc, the tool info is in the tool table, but when I got to run the program nothing happens. it says no tool. not even in mdi mode can I do a T1 M6. Any suggestions?
[20:40:49] <malcom2073> Huh
[20:40:53] <malcom2073> I'm not familiar with tool tables unfortunatly
[20:43:24] <MacGalempsy> maybe some one can take a look at the gcode and tell if I am doing something incorrectly. www.pastebin.com/Mj3T8wkr
[20:43:47] <MacGalempsy> maybe linuxcnc is politically correct and doesnt use the N word
[20:45:03] <andypugh> It politely ignores the N-word
[20:46:01] <tiwake> malcom2073: whats wrong with debian testing?
[20:46:26] <tiwake> I can understand debian stable, debian testing is practically a rolling release though
[20:46:32] <malcom2073> tiwake: Personal preference.
[20:46:52] <tiwake> heh, cant argue that :P
[20:47:03] <tiwake> (not that I was trying to begin with)
[20:48:15] <MacGalempsy> the tool path shows up, but the thick yellow makes a long run to the g54 position
[20:49:00] <Tom_itx> you probably want to start with T1
[20:50:09] <MacGalempsy> ok. I will try that. this is how we did it in class, but that was with fanuc controls
[20:50:14] <Tom_itx> when counting you usually start with 1 as the first unit unless you're using binary numbers :D
[20:50:37] <Tom_itx> i don't know how lcnc handles T0 command
[20:50:56] <MacGalempsy> it is interesting that in the tool table there is a preset tool # 0
[20:51:58] <Tom_itx> T1 P1 D0.031200 Z-0.843959 ;#3 center drill T2 P2 D0.156000 Z-1.345600 ;5/32 twist drill
[20:52:05] <Tom_itx> that's the first couple lines from mine
[20:52:20] <andypugh> Tom_itx: T0 == unload the tool
[20:52:33] <Tom_itx> and what? drop it on your foot?
[20:52:47] <MacGalempsy> that is similar to what I have in the tool table
[20:52:51] <Tom_itx> hmm never used that that i can think of
[20:53:31] <andypugh> Yes. if your system is configure that way. Typically it puts it back in the carousel, or asks you to remove the tool and doesn’t prompt for a new one.
[20:53:32] <Tom_itx> what's the drill size for a 6-32 tap?
[20:53:37] <Tom_itx> too lazy to look it up...
[20:53:41] <MacGalempsy> so you think I should start the gcode program with the T1 M6 command?
[20:53:51] <Tom_itx> 29 iirc
[20:54:47] <Tom_itx> no that's for 8-32
[20:55:12] <Tom_itx> 36
[22:10:06] <dioz> is pulse and hf start worth the extra money?
[22:10:11] <dioz> or if one is "good enough" do they need it?
[22:12:12] <Wolf_> tig?
[22:12:31] <Wolf_> hf start is nice, don’t have to scratch start the arc
[22:12:58] <dioz> yah tig
[22:13:19] <dioz> i heard pulse makes it way easier to start w/ thinner gauge sheet metals
[22:14:36] <roycroft> especially if you're not an experienced gtaw welder, hf start is worth the extra money
[22:14:53] <roycroft> but even if you are very experienced it is a useful feature
[22:14:59] <dioz> what do you think of a lincol square wave 200 sx ?
[22:15:15] <dioz> :s/sx//
[22:15:22] <Wolf_> red or blue are both good
[22:15:40] <dioz> it's like ~$1400 CAD
[22:15:45] <dioz> everything minus tank
[22:16:00] <roycroft> red or blue are no better than green or yellow when it comes to inverter machines
[22:16:01] <Wolf_> I have a miller 200dx…
[22:16:17] <dioz> i'm wondering how eastwood would have a machine with same capabilities worth only ~$800 CAD
[22:16:25] <roycroft> you still pay for the color
[22:16:30] <roycroft> but they're made in china like all the others
[22:16:34] <dioz> how are the china models that much cheaper?
[22:16:45] <Wolf_> no support
[22:16:50] <roycroft> because they're not red or blue
[22:16:52] <roycroft> no support?
[22:17:06] <Wolf_> I have the full service schematics for my 200dx
[22:17:12] <dioz> eastwood vs. longevity vs. ahp
[22:17:18] <dioz> if you had to?
[22:17:25] <roycroft> if you have an everlast you can take it to any airgas location for service
[22:19:34] <Wolf_> I haven’t shopped machines for a while so I have no idea whats out there
[22:20:09] <dioz> i might just go with the square wave 200
[22:20:13] <dioz> it seems to have everything i want
[22:20:18] <roycroft> i thought you were trying to keep cost down
[22:20:29] <dioz> i am but i don't wanna skimp out
[22:20:31] <dioz> and get somethign shitty
[22:20:40] <dioz> i've been told by a few guys to stick with blue or red
[22:20:43] <dioz> and avoid the china models
[22:20:50] <dioz> the china models are literally half the price though
[22:20:57] <dioz> but idk enough about it to take a risk
[22:21:04] <dioz> like i got a redmi note 3 cellphone
[22:21:13] <dioz> which has a 650 snapdragon processor and 3gb of ram
[22:21:19] <roycroft> those guys are morons
[22:21:19] <dioz> it's better than my gf's samsung
[22:21:23] <roycroft> they are probably trump voters
[22:21:37] <dioz> lol
[22:21:42] <dioz> fuckin republicans
[22:21:53] <dioz> did you know lincoln was a republican?
[22:21:53] <roycroft> i have zero patience for red/blue snobs
[22:21:59] <Wolf_> I like my miller but… I’ve had it for 12 yrs
[22:22:03] <roycroft> he was the first republican president
[22:22:19] <roycroft> look
[22:22:20] <dioz> republicans freed the slaves
[22:22:25] <roycroft> i'm not saying that lincoln/miller are crappy welders
[22:22:26] <roycroft> they are not
[22:22:29] <roycroft> they are good welders
[22:22:39] <roycroft> but they're not the only good welders
[22:22:46] <dioz> oh i hear you 100%
[22:22:57] <dioz> and i mean spending a lot on a welder isn't gonna make me a better wlder
[22:22:59] <dioz> i'm not delusional
[22:23:01] <roycroft> and the morons who scream about them being made in america are 100% wrong
[22:23:10] <dioz> but i want something that will last me a while and do what i want it to do
[22:23:17] <roycroft> all the red and blue inverter models are made in the same chinese factories as the other inverter models
[22:23:30] <dioz> oh for sure
[22:23:36] <dioz> i wouldn't doubt that either
[22:23:51] <roycroft> i think it's stupid to pay red/blue tax on a welder
[22:24:05] <roycroft> now on the transformer models, that's a different story
[22:24:10] <roycroft> but you're talking about an inverter model
[22:24:17] <dioz> yah inverter model
[22:24:28] <roycroft> and i would not get a harbor freight piece of crap
[22:24:41] <roycroft> but everlast and esab make very capable machines for much less money than miller or lincoln
[22:24:45] <dioz> so $500 is too cheap
[22:24:50] <dioz> ;]
[22:25:04] <roycroft> that $900 everlast i showed you would do nicely, if you don't need ac
[22:25:54] <dioz> so i tried to get the gf a fancy ring
[22:26:05] <dioz> i paid for it. then the company said they didn't have it anymore
[22:26:10] <dioz> so now i need to wait again
[22:26:19] <roycroft> that sucks
[22:26:57] <Wolf_> huh, why would you get a tig with no ac?
[22:26:58] <dioz> she keeps saying "just buy whatever welder you want"
[22:27:37] <roycroft> cost, wolf_
[22:27:42] <roycroft> he has no intention of welding aluminium
[22:27:50] <roycroft> and wanted to keep the cost under $1k
[22:28:16] <Wolf_> ahh, doing alum is one of the main reasons I have a tig
[22:28:49] <roycroft> there's certainly a good argument for not limiting oneself
[22:29:09] <roycroft> but if someone is really sure about not welding aluminium i don't see the point in paying extra for an ac machien
[22:29:40] <roycroft> and if circustances change in the future the dc machine can always be sold or kept as a backup
[22:29:55] <roycroft> if you make your living welding you should have more than one welder
[22:30:21] <roycroft> otherwise, when it breaks, not only do you have to pay for a repair, you can't generate revenue until it's repaired
[22:30:30] <roycroft> and assume it will break
[22:30:33] <roycroft> even if it's red or blue
[22:30:37] <roycroft> some day it WILL break
[22:30:40] <Wolf_> yup
[22:30:43] <dioz> that is kind of my opinion on things too
[22:30:46] <roycroft> usually right before a major deadline
[22:31:05] <Wolf_> or something stupid goes up, like bad connection on one of the control boards
[22:31:24] <dioz> tig welding is part of my trade
[22:31:26] <dioz> so i wanna get pro at it
[22:31:28] <tiwake> get a beefy bench power supply and use it as a welder
[22:31:32] <dioz> i just dunno shit about it and don't know anyone to ask
[22:31:44] <dioz> my j-man only mig welds
[22:31:58] <dioz> other than that we outsource all our welding
[22:32:02] <Wolf_> I do tig and glue gun
[22:32:05] <dioz> for the black-iron and hood scoops and stuff
[22:32:13] <dioz> i solder a bit
[22:32:28] <Wolf_> err tig and mig
[22:32:52] <roycroft> and consider this
[22:32:55] <roycroft> if wifey has a say
[22:33:25] <roycroft> it's easier to buy the dc only model now and "need" to upgrade to an ac model later than to get the ac model now and "need" a spare
[22:33:55] <roycroft> the convincing for new functionality, which means new erevenue stream, is easier than convincing to get a backup
[22:34:50] <roycroft> i work as a project manager for it systems
[22:35:03] <roycroft> i can convince customers to get shiny new machines with new features quite easily
[22:35:14] <dioz> did you take any project management training?
[22:35:19] <Wolf_> other option is to find a used transformer based tig…
[22:35:27] <roycroft> but getting them to do backups, to buy upses, to keep spares, is all but impossible
[22:35:36] <roycroft> until The Big Failure(tm)
[22:35:51] <roycroft> then they reluctantly buy the backup gear
[22:36:05] <roycroft> i don't have any formal projet management training, per se
[22:36:23] <roycroft> but i've taken engineering classes that have a lot of project management content
[22:36:52] <dioz> aah
[22:37:20] <roycroft> a big part of engineering - the part that people don't htink about - is project management and budgeting
[22:37:55] <dioz> my boss took off for a week and we're pretty much done the building that we're working on
[22:38:00] <dioz> (i'm a tin banger now)
[22:38:17] <dioz> and he took off for a week and told me to install all the grills/defusers
[22:38:20] <roycroft> at the end of the day
[22:38:26] <roycroft> i'm not suggesting you not buy blue or red
[22:38:30] <dioz> and i just realized that none of them fit and he's not reachable
[22:38:33] <roycroft> if that's what floats your boat, fine
[22:38:59] <roycroft> but i'd say don't discount green and yellow because of the loudmouth idiots who scream that blue and red are the only decent options
[22:39:03] <roycroft> green and yellow are fine too
[22:39:09] <roycroft> pick what you feel suits you best
[22:39:27] <dioz> cause it'll be like $1400 for the rig
[22:39:34] <tiwake> thats why I could not sell anything
[22:39:34] <roycroft> i can't even visit the welding forums because of all the blue/red bigot morons
[22:39:36] <dioz> another couple hundred for a auto-tint helmet
[22:39:49] <dioz> filler material
[22:39:51] <tiwake> the first thing I'd show is all the worse things about any given option
[22:40:05] <roycroft> figure $175 for a tank of argon with first fill
[22:40:12] <dioz> ^ good call
[22:40:12] <roycroft> don't forget that
[22:40:18] <dioz> yah i did forget that
[22:40:23] <roycroft> and another $75 for a regulator, if the machine doesn't come with one
[22:40:34] <dioz> that square wave comes with all but the bottle
[22:40:38] <Wolf_> imo the auto dark helmet will make more diff then then welding machine lol
[22:40:41] <dioz> and i think you can rent the bottles here
[22:40:43] <roycroft> if you're going to be doing this on any kind of regulart basis, double that tank cost
[22:40:45] <roycroft> because you want two
[22:40:49] <roycroft> and do NOT rent bottles
[22:40:50] <roycroft> that's a scam
[22:40:53] <roycroft> just buy them
[22:41:06] <Wolf_> I lease my tanks =\
[22:41:30] <Wolf_> but they are 330cuf iirc
[22:42:09] <roycroft> just remember that gas cylinders *always* run out when there's not quite enough time to get to the gas supplier bofore it closes, or on the weekend
[22:42:14] <roycroft> 100% of the time
[22:42:21] <dioz> hah yah i imagine
[22:42:24] <Wolf_> but yeah, 2 tanks always good
[22:42:28] <dioz> "murphys law" i think they call it
[22:42:29] <roycroft> they never run out when you can pop buy and exchange really quick and get back to work
[22:42:51] <dioz> anything shitty that can happen will happen
[22:42:51] <roycroft> and it's always when you're on deadline too, of course
[22:43:40] <roycroft> if you haven't done gtaw welding before you will be amazed at how fast you go through a cylinder of gas
[22:43:55] <roycroft> figure you'll go through it twice as fast as you think you will
[22:44:02] <Wolf_> ^
[22:44:03] <roycroft> and you'll still run out sooner than you expect
[22:44:22] <Wolf_> 75cu ft tanks are a joke w/ the gtaw
[22:44:34] <roycroft> don't forget the cost of that gas when you quote a job
[22:44:37] <Wolf_> will get ya thorough a weekend though
[22:45:01] <roycroft> and if you're welding ss and you have to backgas as well you go through it more than twice as fast
[22:45:34] <dioz> i also woul dlike to buy local but it looks like it'll need to be ordered
[22:45:43] <dioz> cause there's not a good selection local from what i've found
[22:46:25] <roycroft> everlast have a five year warranty, btw
[22:46:35] <Wolf_> most local shops don’t keep the higher end red/blue/yellow in stock unless its a really big shop
[23:09:26] <roycroft> inventory is expensive
[23:09:35] <roycroft> it ties up your cash and you have to pay property tax on it