#linuxcnc | Logs for 2016-08-02

[04:54:04] <Deejay> moin
[04:58:57] <Sync> tach
[05:40:44] <XXCoder> booyah
[05:42:21] <Deejay> hi there
[05:42:40] <XXCoder> whats up
[06:01:42] <jthornton> morning
[06:01:49] <XXCoder> yo
[06:38:05] <jthornton> does memtest run forever if you let it?
[06:38:36] <Deejay> yes, i think so
[06:40:41] <XXCoder> its great for ram burn in test
[06:41:18] <jthornton> my xp box is randomly rebooting...
[06:41:38] <Deejay> i think thats more a problem of the OS ;)
[06:42:02] <jthornton> on the other hand my asrock h97 with jessie and rt 4.1 has an amazing low latency < 10
[06:42:22] <jthornton> well < 15 now
[06:42:59] <jthornton> I could boot to the live cd and see if it still reboots
[06:43:26] <jthornton> found where you can turn auto restart off so you can see why it shuts down, do that after memtest
[06:44:55] <jthornton> I've never ran memtest but pass 58% and test 98% doesn't look all that good
[06:45:32] <jthornton> oh I see there are multiple tests
[06:47:39] <Deejay> yes, lot of tests
[06:47:47] <Deejay> normally, you should run it for some hours
[06:48:09] <jthornton> their web page says 13 memory tests
[06:48:32] * Deejay updates to 2.7.6. right now
[06:48:44] <XXCoder> so funny https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iyt47egkTu0
[06:48:53] <XXCoder> paste fail
[06:48:53] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLSy8Tl2bjs
[06:50:08] <Tom_shop> JT-Shop, reseat the memory chips
[06:50:25] <jthornton> ok
[06:56:37] <jthornton> I got LinuxC
[06:56:48] <jthornton> NC up and running on jessie this morning
[06:58:08] <archivist> jthornton, reseat cards as well, I have seen pci contacts get grubby
[06:58:11] <jthornton> memtest says pass complete no errors
[07:09:06] <jthornton> hi ho, hi ho it's off to work I go
[07:58:27] <gregcnc> how did I go through life not knowing what a glass armonica was and that Benjamin Franklin invented it?
[08:04:45] <jdh> hone schooled?
[08:05:28] <jdh> how do people go through life thinking the earth is 6000 years old?
[08:06:30] <archivist> idiots
[08:07:03] <archivist> sheep, following stupidity
[08:07:10] <gregcnc> no, just never saw it before. I recognize the sound, but didn't know the source
[08:09:38] <_methods> wut i thought the earth was only 5000 years old
[08:21:25] <CaptHindsight> you got it all wrong it's 7 x 5000 = 35,000 years old, it's only day 7 and he's resting
[08:21:38] <Magnifikus> any suggestion for a minimal mesa setup with 5axis and pci-e
[08:21:44] <_methods> math was never my strong point
[08:22:16] <CaptHindsight> 5000 is just silly :)
[08:23:31] <CaptHindsight> Magnifikus: stepper or servo or a combo of both?
[08:25:07] <_methods> 6i25+7i76
[08:25:13] <_methods> for stepper
[08:32:35] <CaptHindsight> anyone have or use this model? http://www.grizzly.com/products/Benchtop-English-Wheel/T25101?utm_campaign=zPage
[08:32:58] <_methods> nope
[08:33:52] <_methods> JT is the one with all the toys
[08:34:09] <CaptHindsight> http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200660087_200660087 comes with a stand
[08:34:41] <CaptHindsight> I haven't come across any old ones that are built like tanks
[08:35:08] <_methods> i rarely see them at auction
[08:35:33] <_methods> rarely = never
[08:35:34] <CaptHindsight> or auctions, craigslist etc
[08:37:42] <CaptHindsight> just need one for small things like patch panels on autos, suits of armor, yoda platforms etc
[08:39:56] <CaptHindsight> http://www.harborfreight.com/english-wheel-kit-with-stand-68385.html has only one set of wheels
[08:40:35] <CaptHindsight> and will probably require re-drilling, welding etc
[08:41:55] <CaptHindsight> "When I went to install the lower adjusting threaded rod, I discovered that the threads were all gummed up and started to chew up the rod threads and were starting to lock up."
[08:42:44] <CaptHindsight> 30 years ago HF would have to advertise themselves as an unfinished tool store
[08:44:09] <gregcnc> still gave it three stars!
[08:44:53] <CaptHindsight> http://www.grizzly.com/products/Professional-English-Wheel/T27621?utm_campaign=zPage
[08:48:52] <_methods> must be good it's "professional"
[08:50:22] <CaptHindsight> I forget if professional is better than expert or if it's the other way around
[08:50:56] <CaptHindsight> http://www.lazzemetalshaping.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=2/mode=prod/prd2.htm
[08:51:24] <_methods> that one looks pretty good
[08:52:59] <CaptHindsight> http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200403320_200403320?&utm_source=google_PPC&utm_medium=Dynamic+Search+Ads+Test&utm_campaign=DSA&utm_content=_intitle:english%20wheels&mkwid=sZbHtgvW4&pcrid=81459274511&mtype=b&devicetype=c&storeId=6970&langId=-1&type=search&gclid=CJjYrKTqos4CFQiSaQodIckGpA
[08:54:12] <CaptHindsight> so it's either ~$300 for a cheapie, $5k+ for a solid one or the in between one for $2k by Jet
[08:55:09] <CaptHindsight> heh, found a HF one on Craigslist
[08:56:53] <CaptHindsight> http://metalshapers.org/tips/covell/ewheels.shtml
[09:02:58] <CaptHindsight> so lots of the old timers would build their own http://www.faybutler.com/JohnGlover.htm
[09:27:33] <miss0r> I finally did it! I completed a tool post grinder for my lathe ! :) pics in a sec
[09:34:08] <miss0r> apparently my lovely internet lost connection. This is what it looks like now: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B51cA8Udo5i7NFlReHBtU21WUTA https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B51cA8Udo5i7azd0dWhLOWloUlU https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B51cA8Udo5i7NkhqcE8wWnBZYjg https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B51cA8Udo5i7Wi03Y0hMMVJ1ZnM
[09:35:32] <miss0r> The motor is a salvaged unit off an old automated garage door. the pulley system on the back is from a mini lathe. everything else is made for the purpose
[09:38:18] <_methods> looks great
[09:39:00] <miss0r> thanks. I must admit to being quite proud of it. First real project on the lathe
[09:40:13] <JT-Shop> nice grinder
[09:42:05] <miss0r> Now I just need to figure out how to protect the bearing, while also encapsulating the wheel, for protecting me :)
[09:42:53] <miss0r> I didn't have enough foresight to add in some sort of bearing seal :) So I will need a sheild of some kind
[09:45:36] <miss0r> some in here surely knows more of grinding than I do. I have here a 60grit stone. is that proper for a fine finish? or do I need to get something even finer than this?
[09:51:52] <_methods> i'd probably get a finer grit than that
[09:52:13] <_methods> but that all depends on how "fine" you want your finish to be
[09:52:53] <miss0r> i'm looking for a cumersial-grade finish. not a polished finish
[09:53:18] <miss0r> omg. I must apologize for my spelling. Haven't spoken/written english in a while
[09:53:57] <miss0r> lets assume I want to do air bearings at some point in time
[09:54:44] <_methods> you could always just leave your part a bit heavy and finish with emory cloth
[09:54:55] <_methods> to whatever finish you wanted
[09:55:43] <miss0r> but now I have a grinder :) the solution you are talking about is actualy what I used to do the finish on the bearing housing on the grinder
[09:56:25] <miss0r> the issue with emory is the pressure will not be even all over the surface. i.e. impresissions
[09:58:56] <Sync> miss0r: air bearings are not easily ground
[09:59:00] <Sync> you will need to lap them
[09:59:06] <miss0r> indeed
[10:00:23] <_methods> well in that case you'd probably want some finer wheels
[10:03:58] <miss0r> Any idea what grit?
[10:13:06] <_methods> http://www.abprocess.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/AB-Surface-Finish-Chart.pdf
[10:16:24] <_methods> you probably want to look at your target finish spec and pick a wheel based on that
[10:16:39] <_methods> hard to tell you if you don't know what surface roughness you want
[10:16:59] <gregcnc> Rmax Mictron
[10:17:48] <miss0r> indeed :)
[10:18:36] <miss0r> I have to run (picking up the kids) see you
[11:24:03] <ctjctj> I've got my CNC router hooked up through a g450 to linuxcnc. Two of the axis work just fine. I use "test axis" under stepconfig wizard and they will happily move back and forth the right distances. The third axis sometimes goes in the wrong direction. It will start in one direction, get to the end of the jog do a de-acceleration and then accelerate in the same direction. Using the jog buttons I click the same direction it
[11:24:03] <ctjctj> starts. let go and press again and it might start in the opposite direction or in the correct direction. I've got acceleration set as low as it will go and velocity has been moved up and down with no discernible affects. Any suggestions on next trouble shooting steps?
[11:26:35] <archivist> have you wired it correctly
[11:27:03] <archivist> sole the acceleration rate a bit
[11:27:07] <archivist> slow
[11:28:45] <ctjctj> archivist, I'm assuming you mean the stepper motor wiring. I believe it is wired correctly. But I'm strongly considering replacing the motor with an stepper motor with a standard db9 connector already attached. Acceleration is down as low as it will go.
[11:29:43] <archivist> is it an 4 or 5 or 9 wire motor
[11:29:52] <archivist> 9/8
[11:30:04] <ctjctj> I'm not sure off hand.
[11:30:28] <archivist> easy to have a coil wrong on an 8 wire
[11:30:56] * ctjctj thinks "Yes, it is. I'll go double check my hackery on the wiring. Thank you."
[11:31:20] <archivist> also can get better results parallel or serial depending on voltage/current and top speed you need
[11:31:50] <archivist> did you set enough current as well
[11:32:03] <archivist> is the voltage high enough
[11:34:03] <ctjctj> This is my Z axis. It is a smaller motor than X and Y. So power supply is good (Power supply is actually HUGE over kill). I'm thinking that one of the coil wires came lose which would make that coil not function so easy to get started in the wrong direction.
[11:34:37] <archivist> Z needs more oomph it is generally heavy to lift
[11:35:25] <ctjctj> Not for the PoS I built. :-) Plus it *was* working correctly 3+ years ago.
[11:35:54] <ctjctj> So a wiring failure makes sense. And your talk of coils is bringing memories (bad) back of rewiring those motors.
[11:36:33] <archivist> old also means couples coming loose
[11:36:40] <archivist> couplers
[11:37:46] <ctjctj> Yep. I have one "solid" coupler, x and Y are spiders. Managed, with Z going in the wrong direction, to pull the coupler off the Z axis. I checked all the cables. They were good. But wiring is a different question.
[11:41:10] <archivist> not slowing adn carrying on and poor lifting ability is low current or loss of magnetism, dont over current a stepper that can kill it
[11:45:39] <ctjctj> archivist, thanks. I'll do a quick wire check and if that doesn't fix it I'll replace it.
[12:00:24] <Deejay> hmm, downloaded linuxcnc-2.7-wheezy.iso, wrote it to flash drive using dd, but computer does not want to boot from the usb flash drive :(
[12:12:18] <skunkworks> older computer?
[12:12:37] <skunkworks> I have also had issues where some flash drives don't seem to boot
[12:16:32] <Jymmm> Deejay:yhumbdrive isn't an ATAPI device, most ISO's won't boot like that.
[12:23:03] <Deejay> i think i pwned myself
[12:23:17] <Jymmm> ?
[12:23:30] <Deejay> the usb flash drive is too small :-/
[12:23:37] <Jymmm> ah
[12:24:06] <Deejay> problem is right in front of the keyboard
[12:24:10] <Deejay> ;)
[12:24:59] <Jymmm> Deejay: needs to be fay too
[12:25:03] <Jymmm> FAT
[12:26:24] <Jymmm> http://askubuntu.com/questions/372607/how-to-create-a-bootable-ubuntu-usb-flash-drive-from-terminal
[12:27:05] <Deejay> yeah, need to find and prepare another usb flash drive, then i will try again
[12:28:15] <cradek> this is not ubuntu and those ubuntu instructions are wrong
[12:28:17] <Deejay> ah, found one. 2 gigs. should be enough for 1.2 gig image
[12:28:27] <cradek> use the linuxcnc docs, or debian docs
[12:28:45] * Deejay creates the bootable usb drive on ubuntu
[12:28:54] <Deejay> the image itself is debian, yes
[12:29:08] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html#_write_the_image_to_a_bootable_device
[12:29:47] <Deejay> yep, this site is already open ;)
[12:29:55] <cradek> yay!
[12:30:06] <Deejay> tnx for ya help
[12:31:26] <Jymmm> Deejay: I just have one of these and no need to muck with that crap =) https://systembash.com/zalman-zm-ve200-review-you-need-this-external-hard-drive-enclosure/
[12:32:04] <Deejay> :)
[12:52:21] <Deejay> yay, its booting now :)
[12:54:04] <CaptHindsight> anyone ever try to get the edrawings viewer working in Linux?
[12:54:06] <CaptHindsight> http://www.edrawingsviewer.com/
[13:11:46] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: If you don't want to mess with WINE, I think running the android version in an 'android emulator' is your best bet.
[13:12:12] <FloppyDisk> No on the edrawings. I thought there was support, but dassault stopped it because of lack of downloads - at least thought I heard that somewhere...
[13:12:51] <FloppyDisk> I wasn't sure if it was edrawings or draftsight and looks like draftsight is supported for ubuntu (beta).
[13:13:18] <CaptHindsight> FinboySlick: don't mind messing with wine, not sure how much messing will be required
[13:13:32] <FloppyDisk> http://www.3ds.com/products-services/draftsight-cad-software/free-download/
[13:13:35] <CaptHindsight> I have it in winders anyway
[13:13:55] <FloppyDisk> My link was for draftsight, somewhat irrelevant..
[13:14:18] <CaptHindsight> I have the native files in SW
[13:14:25] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: I suspect the android way will be the more stable route regardless.
[13:14:43] <CaptHindsight> we run just about everything here in winders, NX, catia, creo, sw etc
[13:16:03] * FinboySlick shakes his fist at qemu socket networking!
[13:30:38] <alex4nder> FinboySlick: hah, I thought I saw you asking about that
[13:32:00] <FinboySlick> alex4nder: It's frustratingly close to working. netstats reports 'SYN_SENT' when the client socket tries to connect to the server socket, but the machines still can't talk to eachother.
[13:38:45] <FinboySlick> alex4nder: So, linuxcnc and qemu... You have broad interests ;)
[13:39:14] <alex4nder> FinboySlick: I try to keep it interesting
[13:39:33] <alex4nder> I hack on qemu and hypervisor stuff for my $dayjob
[13:40:15] <FinboySlick> I'm using virtio-net, maybe that's incompatible with socket networking?
[13:40:39] <alex4nder> virtio-net is probably only going to affect your guest-side interface
[13:40:42] <Deejay> hmm, jitter seems to be higher on wheezy
[13:40:51] <alex4nder> FinboySlick: but qemu has some weird 'features'
[13:40:58] <alex4nder> some would call them 'bugs'
[13:45:20] <JT-Shop> passed this on the way to town and saw another one on the way home https://ibin.co/2qCrOihgHdet.jpg
[13:46:00] <JT-Shop> https://ibin.co/2qCrhlVoik5j.jpg
[13:46:36] <JT-Shop> cool must be this http://americansolarchallenge.org/
[13:46:44] <gregcnc> cool.. solar car challenge
[13:47:17] <FloppyDisk> The lighter the driver, the better, I might have to watch or ride in that dump truck... Which would be fun, too.
[13:47:47] <JT-Shop> the one I passed was doing a pretty fair speed uphill and really picked up speed downhill
[14:17:43] <ctjctj> archivist, thank you. You nailed it. It is an 8 wire stepper motor. One of the pairs had disconnected. Reconnecting that pair allowed it to work.
[14:17:56] <ctjctj> Next issue is "How to rotate a file on input"
[14:19:05] <cradek> in linuxcnc you can rotate the coordinate systems
[14:19:28] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/g-code.html#gcode:g10-l2
[14:33:39] <FinboySlick> alex4nder: https://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/qemu-devel/2011-11/msg01508.html <-- This has to be fixed, right?
[15:40:05] <miss0r> archivist: you around?
[16:03:47] <blib> does anyone have a pcnc 440?
[16:13:18] <miss0r> I wish I did :)
[16:40:46] <Deejay> gn8
[16:45:54] <blib> miss0r: have you looked into x-carve?
[16:46:11] <blib> 883 pro?
[16:49:30] <miss0r> sorry, can't say that I have
[17:05:34] <miss0r> I use some somewhat old fashioned stuff
[17:17:51] <JT-Shop> Roguish: you about?
[17:47:46] <Duc_main> wohoo looks like the techno cnc router might be sold
[18:06:45] <CaptHindsight> Duc_main: on ebay?
[18:07:13] <Duc_main> CaptHindsight: yes hopefully the guy swings by with cash this weekend
[18:07:30] <CaptHindsight> not bad
[18:11:51] <Duc_main> No cash yet but we are going outside of ebay with cash. Hopefully he shows up. 3000 dollars for something I got cheap
[18:23:59] <Duc_main> I need more money to buy some additional mesa cards
[18:24:02] <CaptHindsight> how many hours do those cheap ChinaCo 30-200w laser tubes last (if you don't burn the place down)?
[18:30:54] <Sync> couple 100h at least
[18:35:32] <skunkworks_> CaptHindsight, ouch ;)
[18:40:10] <FloppyDisk> find some 'good deals' on laser tubes?
[18:40:27] <FloppyDisk> 200w would cut pretty decent mat'l I'd think.
[18:44:17] <CaptHindsight> Sync: do people refill them or just swap them out?
[18:49:31] <CaptHindsight> the Coherent tubes get >20k hours
[18:54:23] <Sync> just swap them out
[18:54:42] <Sync> some people refill them, but eh, not worth the effort
[18:57:50] <Sync> I mean at the price you can burn through 10 of them and still beat a coherent in price
[19:10:07] <dioz> are tig welder torch consumables universal?
[19:18:03] <Sync> not entirely
[19:18:20] <andypugh> But not far off.
[19:18:47] <Duc_main> there is different size electrodes
[19:19:27] <alex4nder> dioz: depends on what you consider consumable.
[19:19:39] <alex4nder> but you'll find series torch differences, and tungstend differences
[19:20:03] <alex4nder> -d
[19:22:09] <dioz> i mean like... cup sizes for example
[19:22:20] <alex4nder> that depends on the torch size
[19:22:30] <dioz> and the part that goes around the electrode... i can't remember the name of it
[19:22:32] <dioz> starts with a c
[19:22:34] <alex4nder> collet
[19:22:53] <Duc_main> but brand to brand is usually universal
[19:22:59] <alex4nder> yah
[19:23:00] <dioz> cool
[19:23:07] <Loetmichel> sooo... 2 times 800km, one night in a hotel and 9 hours in tourist busses later i am back from a visit in vienna... luckily my wife has seen enough after one day already. I dont know if i had it in me to endure 4 days of tourist busses as planned. now BEDTIME ;)
[19:23:23] <dioz> any suggestions for a ~$1000 tig welder (for 14-26 gauge galv iron sheet metal) with a foot pedal?
[19:23:48] <Duc_main> not a tig welder for galv iron sheet
[19:23:50] <Tom_shop> miller are hard to beat. dunno the price
[19:23:59] <Duc_main> tig requires very clean steel
[19:24:10] <Tom_shop> galv is nasty to weld
[19:24:42] <alex4nder> and will make you sick if you don't have a good respirator/lots of airflow
[19:25:49] <Tom_shop> the yellow/green smoke should be an indicator of that
[19:25:51] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: but it's vacation time so it must be fun
[19:25:58] <dioz> can't i just use acetone to remove the galv?
[19:26:06] <alex4nder> no
[19:26:08] <dioz> or even soldering acid?
[19:26:11] <alex4nder> you can grind it off
[19:26:11] <Duc_main> no alot of grinding
[19:26:22] <alex4nder> dioz: what are you making?
[19:26:25] <Duc_main> and it gums up flap wheels quick
[19:27:00] <Duc_main> if it was 3/16 or thick, stick welding would blow thru it
[19:27:22] <CaptHindsight> best way to weld galvanized is to let someone else do it
[19:27:34] <dioz> i know when you solder you have to remove the galv
[19:27:42] <dioz> you use hydrochloric acid to do this
[19:28:06] <dioz> mixed with water
[19:28:18] <dioz> idk why it would need to be grinded though
[19:28:55] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: not really my idea of "vacation" to push my wife in her wheelchair from one tourst bus into the next... at least the roud trips last an hour or more so i got some sleep over the day ;)
[19:29:20] <dioz> muriatic acid
[19:29:25] <dioz> not hydrochloric
[19:29:40] <dioz> either/or really
[19:29:44] <Loetmichel> dioz: welding galvanized (zinc?) steel is not good for your lungs. google welders fever
[19:30:09] <dioz> obviously you don't inhale the fumes....
[19:30:51] <malcom2073> Welding when not breathing tends to not last long
[19:30:52] <Sync> you can solder it without removing the zinc, the muriatic will only act as a flux
[19:31:03] <Loetmichel> you SHOULD use an angle grinder to remove all zinc from the work area + about 1-2"
[19:31:14] <Loetmichel> it burns and causes serious illness
[19:31:28] <dioz> i've soldered heeps of galv
[19:31:36] <dioz> you always clean the galv off with acid
[19:31:37] <Loetmichel> SOLDERING is ok
[19:31:49] <Loetmichel> because the zinc dosent burn then
[19:31:49] <dioz> i imagine cleaning the galv off with acid before welding is much the same
[19:31:59] <Loetmichel> but if you weld the zinc will simply burn off
[19:32:04] <Loetmichel> with said evil fumes
[19:32:13] <alex4nder> dioz: it's not the same
[19:32:39] <alex4nder> dioz: with welding the steel will start to melt, while the zinc boils
[19:33:03] <Loetmichel> dioz: if you let the muriatic acid long entough on there for all the zinc to dissolve then you will have only rust but no steel left
[19:33:08] <Sync> I never etched all the zinc off when soldering galv as not to increase the area that could corrode
[19:34:17] <dioz> idk if you guys can't read or if you're just missing portions
[19:34:18] <dioz> lol
[19:34:35] <dioz> alex4nder: if you've removed all the galv with muriatic acid how would the zinc boil once you start to weld it?
[19:34:45] <dioz> as it's been removed with the acid...
[19:34:55] <Loetmichel> Sync: i said earlier: all the zinc on the weld AND ~2" around it
[19:35:00] <Loetmichel> not all on the workpice
[19:35:16] <Loetmichel> then you dont have to use galvanized in the first place
[19:36:56] <Loetmichel_> muriatic acid in the neighborhood of unprotected steel (when the znc is gone) WILL start to "speed rust" it.
[19:37:20] <dioz> well first of all this conversation started out being "you can't weld galv iron because of the galv"
[19:37:25] <Loetmichel_> so no, removing the zinc with muriatic acid is a BAD idea
[19:37:26] <dioz> i suggested removing the galv with acid
[19:37:31] <dioz> now it's progressed to "it'll rust"
[19:37:50] <dioz> seems like people either don't know!
[19:37:57] <Loetmichel_> as a few of us already said: remove it mechanically
[19:38:00] <Loetmichel_> by grinding
[19:38:00] <dioz> or something is going on
[19:38:06] <malcom2073> That something is: You're gonna die.
[19:38:08] <Loetmichel_> AND WEAR a RESPIRATOR
[19:38:08] <malcom2073> a very painful death
[19:38:27] <dioz> if you remove the galv with grinding isn't it going to oxidize just as much as if you use acid to clean the galv off?
[19:38:30] <dioz> i don't understand the logic
[19:38:55] <Loetmichel_> the grinding will make it airborne. hence the respirator
[19:39:09] <Loetmichel_> but it will not attack the steel as muriatic acid does
[19:39:28] <Loetmichel_> so acid is BAD idea. As is welding it without removing the zinc
[19:39:31] <dioz> you realize when you solder galv you use muriatic acid to clean the galv off
[19:39:36] <dioz> and it doesn't "attack" the metal
[19:40:10] <Loetmichel_> but do as you please, just dont come back whining wheh you got a bad cause of "welders fever"
[19:40:24] <dioz> the more you say "welder fever" the less i'm scared
[19:40:25] <Loetmichel_> yes, it DOES attack the metal
[19:40:47] <Loetmichel_> just not the steel because the steel is protected from the acid while there is some zinc left on it
[19:41:08] <dioz> the muriatic acid is meant to remove the galv (zinc)
[19:41:13] <dioz> you know galv is zinc right?
[19:41:33] <Loetmichel_> the acid simply attacks the zinc first. and only when no zinc is left (what you need for healthy welding) it will attack the steel
[19:41:57] <Loetmichel_> if you solder you only clean the zinc surface
[19:42:09] <Loetmichel_> you dont remove the zinc completely
[19:42:17] <dioz> you remove the zinc completely...
[19:42:37] <Loetmichel_> ok, if you say so: do as you please
[19:42:54] * Loetmichel_ is waiting for the headlines of "dead welder found" soon
[19:42:56] <Loetmichel_> have fun.
[19:43:30] <Loetmichel_> why is it always that people ask things but dont want to hear the answer?
[19:43:44] <CaptHindsight> I don't know
[19:43:55] <dioz> don't want to hear the answer?
[19:44:02] <dioz> the answer has contradicted itself 3 or 4 times already
[19:44:03] <dioz> lol
[19:45:09] <dioz> also from what i've heard burning zinc will only make you sick
[19:45:13] <dioz> it doesn't destroy lung tissue
[19:46:04] <Loetmichel_> one last time for the slower people here: WELDING ANYTHING WITH ZINC ON IT IS BAD! Remove at least the area of zinc from the part that will be welded that will heat up above the boiling point of zinc. Usually about 2cm wide aside the weld for thin sheet material. AND DONT USE ACID FOR THAT BECAUSE IT WILL ATTACK THE BLANK STEEL.
[19:46:46] <Loetmichel_> liar
[19:46:53] <dioz> how much soldering you done?
[19:46:54] <dioz> lol
[19:46:57] <Loetmichel_> cant put it any simpler
[19:47:05] <dioz> i've done loads of soldering
[19:47:06] <Loetmichel_> look at my nick
[19:47:11] <dioz> i'm a tin banger by trade
[19:47:37] <dioz> trade school even told us to use muriatic acid to remove the galv before soldering
[19:48:02] <dioz> then you need to cover the entire area that has had the galv removed with solder
[19:48:12] <Loetmichel_> why do you even ask then, if you know everything better?
[19:48:12] <dioz> as to prevent it from rusting
[19:48:23] <dioz> cause the initial question i asked has roamed so far
[19:48:28] <dioz> from what it originally was
[19:48:44] <Loetmichel_> just go, kill yourself (or make yourself ill enough taht you can post here with it) and stopp trolling around
[19:49:08] <CaptHindsight> just use ignore
[19:49:20] <dioz> kill myself?
[19:49:30] <dioz> no need to get upset
[19:49:40] <dioz> lol if you don't know the answer to the question maybe you just shouldn't comment
[19:49:41] <Loetmichel_> by welding that stuff without protection
[19:49:43] <dioz> lol
[19:49:50] <dioz> who said i'd be welding without protection?
[19:49:54] <Loetmichel_> youi said
[19:49:57] <dioz> did i?
[19:50:06] <Loetmichel_> yes
[19:50:07] <dioz> can you please copy and paste the line where i said that?
[19:50:16] <Loetmichel_> no.
[19:50:19] <dioz> i know you can't
[19:50:22] <dioz> cause you're delusional ;]
[19:50:30] <Loetmichel_> another torll for the ignore list
[19:50:39] <Loetmichel_> nice that you finally exposed yourseld
[19:50:43] <Loetmichel_> -d+f
[19:51:11] <dioz> okay so back to the original question. anyone suggest a welder for ~$1000 to weld 14-26 gauge sheet metal?
[19:51:17] <dioz> with a foot pedal
[19:51:30] <dioz> tig welder specifically
[19:54:20] <dioz> lol "i'm pretending to know what i'm talking about..." lol "oh shoot the things i thought i knew were wrong... i better call the other person a troll and ignore them before i look foolish"
[20:09:22] <roycroft> i pointed to that everlast yesterday that was $999
[20:09:26] <roycroft> er, $900
[20:09:36] <dioz> i thought it was more than $1000
[20:09:40] <dioz> which model again?
[20:09:42] <roycroft> it's dc only, but you said you were not going to weld aluminium
[20:09:47] <dioz> i thought hte model you said was above $2000
[20:10:03] <roycroft> http://www.everlastgenerators.com/product/tig-stick/power-i-tig-200t
[20:10:06] <roycroft> $829
[20:10:22] <dioz> ladies and gentleman!!
[20:10:26] <dioz> THERE is a suggestion
[20:10:28] <dioz> thank you
[20:10:38] <dioz> yah i have no need to weld aluminium ATM
[20:10:41] <Loetmichel_> roycroft: you can tig weld aluminium with DC. reverse polarity. it just eats the tungsten rods like crazy.
[20:11:06] <dioz> ^ i wouldn't trust a whole lot of what this guy says TBH
[20:11:07] <roycroft> they ball up in an instant with dc, don't they?
[20:11:32] <roycroft> loetmichel_ has been here for years
[20:11:42] <Sync> they do with ac as well if you use a regular old transformer machine
[20:11:44] <roycroft> longer than i have, i'm pretty sure
[20:11:53] <Loetmichel_> roycroft: did that a few times out of neccessity
[20:12:17] <Loetmichel_> it works. but it eats the tig tips about 3 times as fast as "proper AC"
[20:12:22] <roycroft> necessity is the mother of mcgyvering
[20:12:30] <dioz> and what's the different ways to start the spark? someone told me welding thin gauge sheet metal is hard to get your initial spark
[20:12:35] <dioz> you usually have to scratch spark?
[20:12:54] <roycroft> the one i pointed to has hf start
[20:13:01] <roycroft> you don't need to scratch start it
[20:13:20] <roycroft> please to read the specs
[20:13:36] <dioz> i read them i just dunno what HF is
[20:13:59] <dioz> The all new solid state HF start improves the arc starting of the welder, and lowers the arc starting threshold down to 3 amps.
[20:14:16] <roycroft> if you set it up with hf start you don't have to scratch start
[20:14:32] <dioz> alright we'll leave it at that then
[20:15:11] <roycroft> it will start an arc without touching the work
[20:17:06] <dioz> If you weld on cars, you may fry computers and radios with HF. Especially you can wreck reception on a radio with HF. And if you are ever welding anything with capacitors, etc. you can goof them up. So that's why you might use lift start. Or, maybe the machine is a stick welder, and you don't want to add the HF box to the machine if you rarely use tig.
[20:17:26] <dioz> high frequency?
[20:17:38] <dioz> makes sense in that case
[20:17:39] <roycroft> high frequency in this context is >50kHz
[20:18:08] <roycroft> if you provision that on the welder it starts with a high frequency pulse that allows you to get your arc started without touching down on the material
[20:18:19] <roycroft> then it falls back to standard dc after a period of itme
[20:18:38] <roycroft> i can adjust the hf start time on mine - i presume one can do it on the model i pointed you at
[20:18:55] <roycroft> if you don't use that and you use lift start you have to almost touch the electrode down on the work to start it
[20:19:03] <Sync> well, idk why it is called hf, they just inject a high voltage in there
[20:19:11] <roycroft> if you're very good you can keep it a few thousandths away from the material
[20:19:27] <roycroft> but most folks "swipe" it across the material in an arc
[20:19:35] <roycroft> touching down briefly, but never holding it touched down
[20:19:47] <roycroft> it pulses, doesn't it, sync?
[20:20:02] <Sync> that actually depends
[20:20:03] <roycroft> it's not sinusoidal, for sure
[20:20:12] <roycroft> but i thought it generally pulsed very rapidly
[20:20:22] <dioz> these are quality chats IMO this is actually helpful
[20:20:23] <roycroft> regardless of the mechanism, the net effect is the same
[20:20:30] <Sync> some old machines connected an ignition transformer over the output
[20:20:52] <Sync> modern machines have a small flyback charging a cap that discharges over a sparkgap
[20:20:54] <roycroft> perhaps the dc only ones don't pulse
[20:20:58] <Sync> or do it solid state all together
[20:21:06] <dioz> however i'll be back. gf wants to go rollerblading.
[20:21:07] <roycroft> mine's ac/dc
[20:21:13] <dioz> i'mm just scroll back right now and then continue reading when i return
[20:21:46] <roycroft> i don't claim to be an expert on this by any means
[20:21:51] <roycroft> so i'll gladly defer to them that are
[20:22:03] <Sync> well, they are all injecting ac
[20:22:09] <roycroft> i have a nice green machine
[20:22:15] <roycroft> i can make pretty arcs with it
[20:22:24] <roycroft> and join pieces of metal together
[20:22:30] <roycroft> that's my expertise :)
[20:22:30] <Sync> in the end all of the chinese machines are very similar inside
[20:22:34] <Loetmichel_> Sync: its HF because its not easy to switch the transformer for the welding current off. A HF HV pulse on the other hand will not be shorted by the transformer because at high frequency it isnt a short but a high resisance( Inductance)
[20:22:36] <roycroft> yes, they are
[20:23:12] <Loetmichel_> ... so you and overlay an "arc inducing high voltage" on the weld tip without disconnecting the transformer first at all
[20:23:15] <Sync> I have reverse engineered a few of them to add features
[20:23:47] <roycroft> the difference between the everlast and most of the other chinese machines is that everlast use high quality german igbts
[20:23:49] <Loetmichel_> +can go
[20:23:59] <roycroft> which are more reliable than the cheap asian ones used by most others
[20:24:11] <roycroft> but the design of all of them is quite similar
[20:24:28] <roycroft> and if you get a big blue or big red inverter unit, it's chinese
[20:24:29] <Sync> my chinese one uses an IR igbt module in the ac output
[20:24:42] <Sync> and ir in the h bridge as well
[20:24:45] <roycroft> so the big blue and big red snobs can go suck an egg
[20:25:03] <Sync> it doesn't really matter, and you can repair them easily
[20:25:31] <Loetmichel_> Sync: did you see the pic of the cheap stick inverter i had opened?
[20:25:42] <Sync> probably
[20:25:46] <roycroft> some folks can repair them easily
[20:25:57] <roycroft> some folks stress over putting a plug on the end of a power cord
[20:26:11] <Loetmichel_> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=9187&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- i really find i ballsy that the chinese push 80A thru 6mm^2 wires ;)
[20:26:37] <Sync> it's actually not that bad
[20:26:52] <Sync> mine also has suprisingly small cables in it
[20:26:59] <roycroft> what if those wires are made of silver?
[20:27:06] <Sync> but it works out fine, I looked at it with my thermal camera
[20:27:51] <Loetmichel_> roycroft: that inverter had cost 125€ (about $150)... you really belive there is ANY silver in there=
[20:27:53] <Loetmichel_> ?
[20:28:31] <Loetmichel_> ... including a face shield, a "welding hammer" and some electrodes
[20:29:42] <Sync> it's like 25W in the cable
[20:29:46] <Sync> it's fine
[20:31:18] <Sync> it is not ideal, yes, but eh it is not an issue
[20:31:45] <Sync> they actually use a clever copper saving trick in my unit
[20:32:15] <Sync> center tapped transformer so they only need a halfbridge to invert it
[20:34:56] <eeriegeek> I have one of the Everlast 200STs, its worked well for me
[20:41:28] <eeriegeek> did all the welding on this with it: http://imgur.com/a/Ui8PO
[20:53:44] <MacGalempsy> good evening
[20:59:45] <MacGalempsy> anyone around?
[20:59:49] <alex4nder> yup
[21:00:15] <MacGalempsy> alex4nder: hi. making anything good?
[21:00:24] <MacGalempsy> zeeshan: you in tongiht?
[21:02:01] <alex4nder> MacGalempsy: I hope so.. I'm working on a new spindle speed controller
[21:02:05] <alex4nder> so I can switch to a BLDC
[21:02:29] <MacGalempsy> BLDC?
[21:02:34] <alex4nder> brushless dc motor
[21:02:36] <MacGalempsy> sorry
[21:02:40] <MacGalempsy> ahhhh....
[21:02:46] <MacGalempsy> yes.
[21:03:23] <alex4nder> I got some Vedder VESCs built.
[21:03:32] <alex4nder> so I'm going that route
[21:04:00] <MacGalempsy> i finally got my machine running, then went to the grandparents for the weekend and the caps went out in the computer. so now I am waiting for the new computer to get here. all should be here friday
[21:04:31] <MacGalempsy> then its on to working on a new 3d printer prototype.
[21:04:41] <alex4nder> suck
[21:05:02] <MacGalempsy> yeah. three years it took to get it all to this point
[21:10:53] <Tom_itx> MacGalempsy what are you getting?
[21:12:28] <MacGalempsy> Tom_itx: i went with the gq-j1900-d3v
[21:12:44] <MacGalempsy> 8 gb ram and a case
[21:12:52] <MacGalempsy> gq = ga
[21:12:53] <Tom_itx> 1900 should be good
[21:13:06] <MacGalempsy> I hope the 4th computer is a charm...
[21:13:19] <Tom_itx> mini atx?
[21:13:25] <MacGalempsy> mini itz
[21:13:28] <MacGalempsy> itx
[21:13:35] <Tom_itx> one less slot
[21:13:39] <MacGalempsy> the board is only 17 sqcm
[21:13:47] <Tom_itx> yeah i have a few of both
[21:13:50] <Tom_itx> footprints
[21:14:20] <MacGalempsy> the only dumb thing is the mini itx towers have like 4 expansion bays
[21:14:48] <Tom_itx> i probably would have gone with a desktop, they're a bit smaller
[21:14:49] <MacGalempsy> i am curious what one does with 2 ethernet ports
[21:15:01] <Tom_itx> 2 extra mesa cards silly
[21:15:21] <MacGalempsy> achttp://www.ebay.com/itm/301380742963?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
[21:15:22] <Tom_itx> host a server
[21:15:28] <Tom_itx> lan on one wan on the other
[21:15:41] <MacGalempsy> lol. i have 5i25, 7i77 and 7i84, how many more do I need?
[21:15:52] <Tom_itx> you can never have too many toys
[21:16:18] <MacGalempsy> tell that to my wife!
[21:16:26] <Tom_itx> i'm not even sure what i have now
[21:16:38] <Tom_itx> 2 in the cnc and a boxfull on the shelf
[21:16:49] <MacGalempsy> I tried to get rid of a few mixing bowls from the kitchen and she freaked. "How would you like me to do that in the garage?"
[21:17:03] <eeriegeek> touche
[21:22:55] <MacGalempsy> Tom_itx: the desktops are definitely smaller, but for $43 the tower also has the PSU...
[21:26:32] <Tom_itx> yeah, both mine did
[21:28:06] <Tom_itx> did that itx have a full pci slot?
[21:29:03] <Tom_itx> http://www.ebay.com/itm/APEX-MI-008-Black-Steel-Mini-ITX-Tower-Computer-Case-250W-Power-Supply/301380742603?_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D35389%26meid%3Da4d69fad37164a9dabaee85bbe7ef27c%26pid%3D100623%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D301380742963
[21:29:08] <Tom_itx> i've got one of those
[21:36:00] <MacGalempsy> the board or the tower?
[21:36:35] <MacGalempsy> I have both height plates for the 5i25, so it will be ready, either way
[21:37:37] <Tom_itx> the board
[21:38:12] <Tom_itx> yeah i should have gotten both plates for a couple of mine
[22:00:25] <MacGalempsy> well gents, im headed in for bed. its been a long day laying tile. te veo en la manana. ciao
[22:03:37] <Tom_itx> hasta mañana
[22:25:16] <TurBoss> Hi
[22:25:50] <TurBoss> I'm writing a python component
[22:26:25] <TurBoss> if I turn the bit on it works but no if I turn it off
[22:26:33] <TurBoss> Component :http://dpaste.com/0C772SF
[22:26:43] <TurBoss> Halrun:http://dpaste.com/31ND4Y3
[22:28:26] <TurBoss> I'm on 2.8pre from git
[23:05:16] <roycroft> so
[23:05:29] <roycroft> batch a has an og of 1.092
[23:05:34] <roycroft> batch b has an og of 1.090
[23:05:40] <roycroft> i think i did well hitting my target :)
[23:06:12] <roycroft> and the must is delicious
[23:06:23] <roycroft> www.zymurgasm.com/PlumWine.jpeg
[23:06:41] <roycroft> i have 22L of must/pulp in each carboy
[23:06:49] <roycroft> ack, sorry - mischan for a while :)
[23:06:56] <roycroft> i've been making wine tonight