#linuxcnc | Logs for 2016-08-01

[05:19:01] <jthornton> morning\
[05:19:13] <XXCoder> hey THE J~
[05:19:16] <XXCoder> !
[05:38:20] <jthornton> hmm debian jessie doesn't give you a desktop choice during install... I wonder what I'll get lol
[05:38:54] <XXCoder> probably gnome or kdb
[05:39:01] <XXCoder> mines xfce mint. guess what it comes with.
[05:39:31] <jthornton> you running jessie?
[05:39:50] <XXCoder> not too sure but think not
[05:40:07] <XXCoder> mint is bit behind ubuntu
[05:40:27] <jthornton> you running linuxmint?
[05:40:39] <XXCoder> xfce mint yes
[05:40:43] <jthornton> I like that one better than debian
[05:40:55] <jthornton> that's what I'm running on this computer
[05:41:27] <XXCoder> is your linux mint or its variant xfce mint?
[05:42:34] <jthornton> I'm running the Mate desktop on this one
[05:42:48] <XXCoder> cool. mine uses xfce
[05:42:55] <XXCoder> (what a surpise considering distro name)
[05:43:32] <jthornton> I used xfce on the debian sneezy
[05:47:37] <Deejay> moin
[05:47:47] <XXCoder> hey
[05:54:20] <jthornton> hmm it gives you more desktop manager options during the install
[06:05:54] <jthornton> hmm internet is broken on my XP computer lol
[06:18:23] <pink_vampire> moinnn
[08:40:47] <James628> Is there an equivalent of stepgen.N.step/dir pins in hostmot2 ? I need to feedback the step and dir signals of 7i90 to a component
[08:41:39] <archivist> strange need, what are you really trying to do
[08:43:48] <James628> controling CO2 laser. Pulse per mm type of firing, working well with parport and sw stepgen
[08:50:39] <James628> https://github.com/jv4779/2x_laser/blob/master/2x_Laser.hal#L142
[08:56:02] <skunkworks> is this for rastering?
[08:56:23] <skunkworks> hm looks like it is.
[08:57:19] <James628> yes, this is for rastering
[08:58:20] <skunkworks> The issue is that the mesa stuff is running at the servo period (1ms) so you cannot read the actual steps at that speed.
[08:59:27] <skunkworks> http://www.buildlog.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=557&sid=8ef0f7167d7e72b452d30217b4eb4398&start=160
[09:00:05] <skunkworks> ben was playing with adding functionallity to the mesa board - but I don't know if he ever finished it.. (or started it)
[09:05:21] <archivist> I was thinking connect the velocity to a pdm generator
[09:18:05] <pcw_home> Didn't someone have a scheme for embedding the digital raster data in the gcode?
[09:45:07] <CaptHindsight> James628: why not PWM the laser at it scans?
[09:45:24] <CaptHindsight> at/as
[09:45:55] <CaptHindsight> I'm working on two laser systems right now
[09:49:23] <James628> CaptHindsight: Do you use this PWM driven rastering already?
[09:51:27] <CaptHindsight> James628: working on it right now, well later today
[09:52:34] <CaptHindsight> there is laser scan rate that determines the J/cm^2 plus laser power
[09:53:26] <CaptHindsight> scan rate and PWM of the laser determines J/cm^2
[09:54:55] <James628> CaptHindsight: Do you have any further details available ? Sample implementation or similar? I am not a big expert at HAL stuff...
[09:55:11] <CaptHindsight> James628: both of these use galvos
[09:55:21] <CaptHindsight> 2 open loop servos
[09:55:50] <CaptHindsight> James628: I will in a couple of days
[09:56:34] <CaptHindsight> scanning is relatively slow since the servo period is limited to a few khz
[09:57:03] <CaptHindsight> not a problem here since this is not for laser projection
[09:58:04] <James628> hw is not particulary similar to my setup, but I am interested to see how it works
[09:58:34] <CaptHindsight> pcw_home: whats the fastest the 6i25 can run a servo loop? 4Khz?
[10:01:22] <CaptHindsight> James628: are you etching with the CO2 laser?
[10:05:11] <James628> Yes, I tried the cutting on CO2 laser, cuts are nice, really look as it were made on DSP.
[10:06:03] <CaptHindsight> well one system is open loop galvo and the other is closed loop
[10:09:21] <pcw_home> CaptHindsight: depends on the PC, 8/10 KHz is possible on some
[10:10:49] <CaptHindsight> pcw_home: was it the 7i92 that you had running up to 4KHz?
[10:10:58] <pcw_home> ( A 6I25 can run a servo loop locally at MHz with the right firmware )
[10:11:25] <pcw_home> any of the Ethernet cards will run at 4 KHz with a fast CPU
[10:11:56] <CaptHindsight> had 4KHz stuck in my head :)
[10:12:13] <pcw_home> the PCI cards are faster of course
[10:12:39] <CaptHindsight> the trajectory planner would need to move as fast as the servo loop
[10:13:07] <CaptHindsight> hmm, get rid of the PC and have it all in the FPGA :)
[10:13:13] <pcw_home> not for rastering
[10:14:06] <pcw_home> not, really the PC sets up the FPGA for a servo period long segment
[10:14:43] <pcw_home> the PC does the slow complicated stuff well, the FPGA does the fast simple stuff well
[10:15:59] <CaptHindsight> how are you defining rastering? set XY scan from top to bottom, left right like a crt or random XY movement?
[10:16:46] <pcw_home> makes no particular diff to the hardware
[10:17:19] <pcw_home> its just painting hardware, synced to motion
[10:17:44] <CaptHindsight> the trajectory planner only can work so fast
[10:19:25] <pcw_home> the hardware interpolates so the TP rate is mostly dont-care
[10:22:28] <CaptHindsight> how do you interpolate more than one move within one servo period? Say you are scanning a square in one servo period.
[10:23:18] <CaptHindsight> or the ^^ above lines of text in on servo period
[10:25:03] <pcw_home> not sure why you you want to
[10:25:59] <pcw_home> for raster its the data that's fast, not the trajectory
[10:26:36] <CaptHindsight> what if you wish to vector scan?
[10:26:42] <pcw_home> you can have an arbitrary trajectory but it need not be fast
[10:27:07] <pcw_home> its modulation that you can to fast
[10:28:47] <pcw_home> well it can be as fast as you like fast but need not have high accel
[10:28:50] <CaptHindsight> now I'm clear of your definitions
[10:29:25] <CaptHindsight> I hear raster often when people mean vector
[10:29:40] <pcw_home> this is vector as well
[10:30:44] <pcw_home> any motion pattern is paintable at MHz with the right hardware
[10:37:11] <CaptHindsight> James628: I just saw this thread http://www.cnczone.com/forums/general-laser-engraving-cutting-machine-discussion/186700-software-forum.html
[10:39:09] <CaptHindsight> https://github.com/bjj/2x_laser
[10:40:34] <James628> CaptHindsight: This is exactly what works well with parport :) I tried only the cutting part so far.
[10:41:35] <James628> I am moving from parport to Mesa solution, my first question was toward this direction
[10:46:42] <CaptHindsight> I'm still half asleep, I'll be working on this all week starting later today
[10:49:34] <pcw_home> if there was a good model for rastering with a parallel port ( a component with no z axis or spindle involved, proper motion synced data painting, raster data in gcode )
[10:49:35] <pcw_home> I can implement it in the FPGA so nothing faster than a servo thread is required. This probably requires interpreter changes as well
[10:53:03] <skunkworks> I think jepler was also thinking about that
[10:53:45] <James628> pwc_home: I didn't try it, but I assume this works: https://github.com/sliptonic/2x_laser
[10:53:49] <pcw_home> yeah it would be neat to have LinuxCNC native data painting support
[10:54:30] <CaptHindsight> I need vector for the first one
[10:54:50] <James628> M3 is used to enable laser but not for firing
[10:55:09] <pcw_home> data painting is raster or vector
[10:58:35] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK14SaaYMoc no config files or details
[11:00:33] <CaptHindsight> there was another thread (I can't find right now) that got into someone wanting to raster scan at video rates
[11:01:10] <CaptHindsight> laser light show controlled by Linuxcnc
[11:02:42] <CaptHindsight> heh, Google thinks I might be a bot for searching too fast
[11:03:35] <CaptHindsight> how slow do you have to use the Google now to appear human?
[11:08:28] <skunkworks> heh
[11:10:50] <skunkworks> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKVb4qtMEgA&feature=youtu.be
[11:10:57] <skunkworks> wow - do you see the delay?
[11:11:32] <skunkworks> about 1 minute in
[11:15:00] <cradek> I wonder if it's delay, or very low feedback resolution
[11:17:06] <skunkworks> I don't know the encoder count - but I think it is a normal quadature+index.
[11:18:33] <skunkworks> pokeys can do a/b/z or just single index. (not single channel + index)
[11:19:16] <pcw_home> looks like about a 100 ms delay from spindle to motion (not sure my eyes are calibrated though)
[11:19:35] <pcw_home> spindle motion to z motion I mean
[11:19:51] <skunkworks> it doesn't seem to be acceleration..
[11:20:40] <CaptHindsight> I'll stop complaining about 3d printers if you stop complaining about mach :)
[11:21:21] <pcw_home> I think it would be nice to add a simulated index to the encoder comp so high res 1 pin encoder threading is possible
[11:21:36] <skunkworks> I don't mind you complaining about 3d printers...
[11:21:46] <CaptHindsight> both groups are just in it for the money
[11:21:46] <CaptHindsight> hehe
[11:22:06] <pcw_home> the fact that the index is volatile should not hurt much
[11:22:39] <CaptHindsight> didn't the mach dev start out with EMC way back when?
[11:23:03] <cradek> yes, very long ago
[11:31:36] <skunkworks> acording to the video - it is about 300ms
[11:31:47] <skunkworks> 350ish before the axis starts moving
[11:34:21] <pcw_home> wonder why?
[11:34:21] <JT-Shop> anyone running a 64-bit real time LinuxCNC? see if lcd works for you
[11:34:39] <pcw_home> I am (mint 18)
[11:34:47] <JT-Shop> halcmd: loadrt lcd fmt_strings="LinuxCNC"
[11:35:02] <pcw_home> I can try when I drag myself in to work
[11:35:02] <JT-Shop> norbert is having a problem
[11:35:15] <skunkworks> uspace?
[11:35:18] <JT-Shop> ok thanks
[11:35:44] <pcw_home> I'm running uspace, not sure if that matters
[11:36:06] <JT-Shop> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/forum/24-hal-components/31337-error-loading-lcd#78240
[11:36:54] <skunkworks> http://imgur.com/a/TwwwJ
[11:38:37] <skunkworks> waiting for lcd to become ready
[11:40:18] <skunkworks> I can'
[11:40:24] <skunkworks> I can't seem to break out of it
[11:40:58] <cradek> I don't see hal_ready in lcd.c's rtapi_app_main
[11:56:24] <pcw_home> doesn't work for me on 32 bit:
[11:56:25] <pcw_home> pcw@pcw-G41M-Combo:~$ halcmd loadrt lcd fmt_strings="LinuxCNC"
[11:56:27] <pcw_home> <commandline>:0: /home/pcw/linuxcnc-dev/bin/rtapi_app exited without becoming ready
[11:56:28] <pcw_home> <commandline>:0: insmod for lcd failed, returned -1
[11:57:06] <pcw_home> uspace/ubuntu14.04
[11:58:36] <pcw_home> (master)
[12:27:21] <skunkworks> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mach1mach2cnc/conversations/messages/151273
[12:28:38] <skunkworks> it is a pretty conisistant video artifact.. (if that is what it is..)
[12:28:50] <skunkworks> consistent
[12:36:59] <JT-Shop> I just tested lcd on my preempt rt 32-bit and get the same error waiting for lcd to become ready.....
[13:00:13] <pcw_home> so likely a uspace issue
[13:08:10] <JT-Shop> Dewey just emailed me a patch
[13:08:43] <JT-Shop> http://paste.ubuntu.com/21785216/
[13:19:27] <skunkworks> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mach1mach2cnc/conversations/messages/151278
[13:30:16] <FloppyDisk> Hey JT-Shop, FYI - when I click around your gnipsel website, many of the images are broken for me?
[13:30:35] <FloppyDisk> For example, in the plasma pix, photos 4-9 have broken links: http://gnipsel.com/shop/plasma/plasma-gallery.xhtml
[13:31:03] <FloppyDisk> It could be me, it could be something else, just thought I'd kindly mention it...
[13:36:52] <Computer_barf> hey guys
[13:37:17] <Computer_barf> http://www.intuwiz.com/right-triangle.html#.V55qgjqVtpg
[13:37:33] <Computer_barf> so ive been generating gcode using this simple utility to make equal lateral triangles
[13:37:56] <Computer_barf> the first time I used it, my triangles came out with nice sharp edges
[13:38:07] <Computer_barf> but the second time, they started coming out with rounded off edges
[13:38:37] <skunkworks> g64p.001 or G61
[13:38:53] <Computer_barf> which is fine, Im welding them into a frame so the rounded over edges get covered by weld beads, but im sure I should figure this out for the future
[13:39:22] <Computer_barf> looking up G61
[13:39:55] <JT-Shop> FloppyDisk: they are just not any photos for them, I used a template for the pages
[13:40:11] <JT-Shop> no thumb = no photo
[13:41:02] <Computer_barf> so do i just issue G61 at the start of the program?
[13:41:38] <skunkworks> yes - if you want exact stop mode. (will stop at every endpoint so no blending)
[13:47:09] <JT-Shop> the first line of a G code program is the best place for the preamble http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/g-code/gen01.html
[13:56:07] <JT-Shop> well I was hoping to have my new building up by April... this month starts with an A maybe I'll be lucky
[14:17:34] <FloppyDisk> We'll take some of that rain from you in CA, that'll help us both...
[15:33:33] <Computer_barf> so how might one unclog an endmill stuffed with aluminum?
[15:35:45] <SpeedEvil> heat to 700C, shake.
[15:35:54] <SpeedEvil> (not an actual suggestion)
[15:36:33] <SpeedEvil> I would probably go at it with aluminium/brass/... picks
[15:37:23] <archivist> or replacement
[16:28:34] <Sync> Computer_barf: put it into muriatic acid
[16:29:49] <cradek> Computer_barf: usually you can peel it out with a piece of wood or similar
[16:30:11] <cradek> if not, you could try gently hammering it into hardwood
[16:30:23] <cradek> but probably you will end up replacing it
[16:38:04] <Sync> muriatic will take care of it very nicely, giving you some hydrogen
[16:40:08] <SpeedEvil> Or you could cut vigourously through some iron oxide
[16:59:36] <Deejay> gn8
[17:50:43] <renesis> 00:06:23 < Computer_barf> so how might one unclog an endmill stuffed with aluminum?
[17:51:09] <renesis> heh, if the aluminum doesnt kind of just push out of the flutes i considered those over
[17:52:41] <yasnak> cut steel
[17:53:27] <yasnak> stainless always "unclogged" 2nd shifts makeshift rub mills
[17:56:19] * skunkworks_ hands Computer_barf coolant..
[17:56:49] <yasnak> or a lower rpm higher feed
[17:56:56] <JT-Shop> yup
[18:03:16] <TurBoss> Hi
[18:04:05] <TurBoss> I'm writing a python component but i need to know how i can compare 2 lists of strings != didn't work :(
[18:05:25] <TurBoss> here is the componet http://dpaste.com/0WS8RAW
[18:15:56] <JT-Shop> in python usually you do a for item in variable: do some stuff
[18:27:27] <TurBoss> ok i figured it out
[18:27:31] <TurBoss> using ne
[18:35:30] <CaptHindsight> so a 2 flute 3/8" end mill at 5k rpm with 1 in/min is too slow?
[18:35:56] <CaptHindsight> thats how I coat my end mills with aluminum
[18:39:13] <renesis> well
[18:39:16] <andypugh> 1 in/min sounds very slow
[18:39:30] <renesis> 10k chops in an inch
[18:39:50] <renesis> so .0001" per tooth
[18:40:41] <renesis> not even cutting youre almost grinding, which is bad because heat is what glues aluminum to endmills
[18:40:59] <andypugh> FS-wizard says 31 in.min
[18:41:23] <andypugh> http://zero-divide.net/?page=fswizard
[18:42:04] <renesis> that sounds right
[18:42:37] <renesis> i do like 20-30 ipm with 1/8 to 3/8 endmills, little taig mill
[18:43:00] <renesis> its fine as long i keep squirting it with water based lube
[18:43:21] <andypugh> I would probably run at 1000rpm (because I have a slow spindle) and 80mm/min. And even that is 15x deeper cuts than yours.
[18:44:06] <cradek> yes to 1000 rpm (100sfm), 2000-3000 only if you have flood coolant
[18:44:26] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: do you recall a discussion on the forums about someone trying to use Linuxcnc to control a laser and galvo for a projector?
[18:44:35] <CaptHindsight> projector/light show
[18:45:57] <andypugh> I can’t say that I do, but I was watching a laser thingy a couple of weeks ago which was meant to be putting images on a wall and thought that it was a _really_ good demonstration of a padly-tuned PID loop.
[18:46:23] <andypugh> And that such a device wouldl be a really good way to teach PID tuning.
[18:46:32] <CaptHindsight> I can't find the link now But I thought you were part of the discussion
[18:46:38] <CaptHindsight> was maybe last year
[18:47:09] <CaptHindsight> I think they wanted to do vectors at 20k positions per second
[18:47:50] <CaptHindsight> which is faster than the trajectory planner can run IIRC
[18:49:03] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/forum/38-general-linuxcnc-questions/31095-hw-stepper-card-linuxcnc-top-view#75954
[18:50:04] <CaptHindsight> oh it was much older https://sourceforge.net/p/emc/mailman/emc-users/thread/475247C4.3050000%40pico-systems.com/#msg14177842
[18:51:13] <CaptHindsight> thanks, I confused those two discussions
[18:51:54] * Jymmmm hands CaptHindsight his dementia medication
[18:52:14] <CaptHindsight> thanks Jymmm
[18:52:22] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: np ;)
[18:52:28] <CaptHindsight> have you seen my bib?
[18:52:51] <CaptHindsight> bib/drool cup
[18:52:51] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: It's in the washer, was getting way too soggy.
[18:53:30] <CaptHindsight> lack of sleep and blood O2
[18:53:45] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: We can hook up the wet/dry shopvac for you if needed.
[18:54:04] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: After that, it's the honey pot
[18:54:41] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: you might have something there
[18:54:42] <Jymmm> 1200 gallons in just 15 minutes!
[18:54:54] <Jymmm> (seriously)
[18:54:57] <CaptHindsight> a dustbuster for drool
[18:55:07] <Jymmm> haha
[18:55:29] <Jymmm> I iike the honeypot idea much better =)
[18:55:37] <CaptHindsight> wet/dry facevac, droolbuster, facehoover....
[18:56:08] <Jymmm> Well, the hpneypot sucks up solids too, so added bonus just in case
[18:56:11] <CaptHindsight> dementia Dyson
[18:56:52] <Jymmm> get BOTH ends at the same time
[18:57:16] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3kN6OMZLCk
[19:06:43] <CaptHindsight> anyone have this? http://www.grizzly.com/products/Benchtop-English-Wheel/T25101?utm_campaign=zPage
[19:09:07] <CaptHindsight> http://cdn0.grizzly.com/pics/jpeg500/t/t25101-844c942789401a8bcf0f97bb9854b883.jpg doesn't look very rigid
[19:12:06] <Jymmm> no motor
[19:12:30] <CaptHindsight> http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200660087_200660087
[19:14:09] <CaptHindsight> vs http://www.harborfreight.com/english-wheel-kit-with-stand-68385.html
[19:16:28] <andypugh> Well, one is a photo, and one is CGI,,,
[19:18:07] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: do they go by the same name there?
[19:19:13] <andypugh> No, we call it a “Wheeling machine”
[19:23:52] <andypugh> Yours are cheaper: http://www.frost.co.uk/auto-bodywork-welding-metalworking-machine/metal-working-machines-tools/42inch-english-wheeling-machine.html
[19:24:39] <dioz> what is a good entry level tig welder? for welding sheet metal specifically. 14-26 gauge
[19:24:45] <CaptHindsight> Nett weight: 388kg
[19:25:24] <andypugh> dioz: What do you want to weld?
[19:25:46] <dioz> 99% 14-26 gauge sheet metal
[19:25:46] <andypugh> Aluminium?
[19:25:51] <dioz> galv or stainless
[19:25:59] <CaptHindsight> I haven't seen any older wheeling machines for sale used
[19:26:01] <andypugh> So, you don’ tneed AC then?
[19:26:11] <dioz> *shrug*
[19:26:18] <dioz> is AC for aluminium?
[19:26:34] <andypugh> dioz: I have only ever bought two TIG welders, so can’t really advise on the market.
[19:26:43] <roycroft> you probably don't want to weld galvanized sheet metal
[19:26:56] <andypugh> But HF start is much nicer than scratch-start
[19:27:34] <CaptHindsight> roycroft: what if you wear a respirator? :)
[19:27:35] <roycroft> i have an everlast inverter tig welder
[19:27:42] <andypugh> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_fume_fever
[19:27:42] <roycroft> i really like it
[19:27:59] <roycroft> it uses german (siemens) power transistors
[19:28:08] <roycroft> the other imports mostly don't
[19:28:17] <dioz> roycroft: i like soldering with acid still on my longitudinal seams... the steam it makes... inhaling it
[19:28:20] <dioz> YUM
[19:28:24] <CaptHindsight> https://ibin.co/2olxNlZNDKWB.jpg all the boards are on ebay for $100 or less
[19:28:59] <roycroft> capthindsight: i think a fresh air ventilation hood would be prudent, not just a respirator
[19:29:07] <CaptHindsight> https://ibin.co/2olxkFJKyRSF.jpg https://ibin.co/2oly1PyTawbs.jpg
[19:29:39] <CaptHindsight> $650 ^^
[19:30:06] <dioz> what's happened was in was in quebec for about 2 weeks and i seen these 3d letters made out of sheet metal. they were all just raw metal color with decent welding jobs
[19:30:19] <dioz> they were ~10" high and the the lady was selling them for $50CAD a piece
[19:30:19] <TurBoss> I need some help in this python component http://dpaste.com/0M61P5Z i want to toggle the values of a list but it only works wht doing setp pinanme.in.0 TRUE not when setting it to FALSE
[19:30:36] <TurBoss> when *
[19:30:42] <dioz> i'm a tin banger by trade so i get free sheet metal
[19:30:44] <dioz> lots of it
[19:30:47] <dioz> too much of it infact
[19:30:58] <dioz> so i wanna make sheet metal letters and post 'em on local forsale sites
[19:31:11] <dioz> and see is they sell
[19:31:14] <roycroft> dioz: intentionally inhaling hazardous gasses is not a behavior for which one should take pride
[19:31:16] <andypugh> dioz: Which continent do you live on?
[19:31:28] <dioz> andypugh: north america
[19:31:42] <andypugh> OK, so this is no good for you: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TIG-Welder-160AMP-DC-Inverter-240V-R-Tech-Tig160PDC-0-Finance-Available-/171492023017?hash=item27edb89ae9:g:twUAAOSw2ENW7rLa
[19:32:37] <andypugh> Just make sure you get one with HF start. AC costs a lot more, but does make it possible to weld aluminium.
[19:32:46] <dioz> word
[19:33:05] <dioz> plus i figure with welding sheet metal being part of my trade and all... i should get good at it
[19:33:13] <dioz> i've never had to do it
[19:33:16] <dioz> but i wanna be able to
[19:33:29] <roycroft> http://www.everlastgenerators.com/product/tig-stick/powertig-250ex
[19:33:32] <roycroft> that is what i have
[19:33:36] <roycroft> and i think it is a great value
[19:33:40] <CaptHindsight> roycroft: do you use your everlast for mostly thick, thin or a bit of everything?
[19:33:42] <roycroft> a bit more than you need for sheet metal
[19:33:53] <dioz> does it have a foot pedal?
[19:33:55] <roycroft> mostly 11ga and thicker
[19:33:59] <roycroft> it does have a foot pedal
[19:34:04] <roycroft> i'm not a very good welder
[19:34:11] <roycroft> and i have a hard time on thin material
[19:34:17] <roycroft> but i also don't have much need to weld thin material
[19:34:36] <CaptHindsight> roycroft: I considered that one but I'm mostly on thin aluminum
[19:34:39] <andypugh> I don’t have a foot pedal. But I am just this moment looking at them on eBay as I was reminded of the lack :-)
[19:34:50] <CaptHindsight> 16ga and lighter
[19:35:31] <roycroft> it would probably work brilliantly for you, capthindsight
[19:35:41] <roycroft> although the powertig 200dx would probably do just as well
[19:35:49] <roycroft> http://www.everlastgenerators.com/product/tig-stick/powertig-200dx
[19:36:19] <CaptHindsight> got this to try https://ibin.co/2olxNlZNDKWB.jpg WSME 200
[19:36:21] <dioz> that everlast rig is way over my price range
[19:36:32] <dioz> i was thinking like a G all in
[19:36:43] <dioz> perhaps minus lid
[19:36:49] <dioz> lid = mask
[19:36:55] <roycroft> http://www.everlastgenerators.com/product/tig-stick/power-i-tig-200t
[19:37:09] <roycroft> this is probably fine for a dc-only gtaw welder
[19:37:31] <roycroft> you want to spend about $300 on a welding hood
[19:38:05] <roycroft> and $100 on other gear, such as a nice leather jacket and tig gloves
[19:38:36] <dioz> leather jacket and biker patches like jax teller?
[19:38:41] <dioz> jk
[19:38:47] <dioz> yah and consumables
[19:38:48] <roycroft> do not scrimp on safety gear
[19:38:55] <roycroft> you only have one pair of lungs and one pair of eyes
[19:38:58] <roycroft> and you can't replace them
[19:39:04] <dioz> what about these uh... tig welders with built in plasma cutters?
[19:39:12] <dioz> how much is a tank and how much is argon?
[19:39:15] <roycroft> you are trying to save money
[19:39:18] <alex4nder> dioz: have you done any tig before?
[19:39:20] <roycroft> that would add a lot of expense
[19:39:21] <roycroft> plus
[19:39:28] <roycroft> and this is my personal opinion only
[19:39:33] <roycroft> i do not like "combination" units
[19:39:44] <roycroft> there are usualy design compromises
[19:39:50] <roycroft> and if the unit breaks down,
[19:39:55] <roycroft> 1. it's often more expensive to repair
[19:40:02] <dioz> and if the unit goes down all your shit needs to be replaced
[19:40:06] <dioz> not just one piece of shit
[19:40:19] <roycroft> and 2. you lose use of the other functions of the unit as well, at least while it's being repaired
[19:40:25] <dioz> alex4nder: naw. i've used a spot welder lots.
[19:40:36] <alex4nder> dioz: I would find someone with a tig setup, and learn, before you buy anything
[19:40:37] <dioz> never tig or mig or stick
[19:40:52] <dioz> not really a option in my case unless i post on CL i guess
[19:40:57] <roycroft> that's my opinion and rationale, yours may differ
[19:41:10] <dioz> "looking for someone with a tig welder so i can play with it"
[19:41:22] <alex4nder> "looking to learn to TIG weld. will pay."
[19:41:31] <roycroft> a lot of community colleges have adult "continuing education" courses that are inexpensive and not for credit
[19:41:32] <dioz> i could go to the technical school i guess
[19:41:46] <roycroft> you might be able to find a welding course there
[19:41:51] <roycroft> it would probably focus on gmaw
[19:42:02] <dioz> i could just wait till i have to go to trades school again
[19:42:04] <andypugh> I defintely don’t want to spend $300 on a mask. I am more than happy with: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Auto-Darkening-Solar-welders-Welding-Helmet-Mask-with-Grinding-Function-/191030474535?var=&hash=item2c7a4db727:m:mYqpwYXSMOIDes1GX6wabzg But it is certainly worth getting one with a bigger-than-normal window.
[19:42:07] <roycroft> but pull the instructor aside the first night (usually a high school teacher) and discuss your interest in gtaw
[19:42:09] <dioz> i think we're supposed to learn welding this year
[19:42:12] <dioz> IDK if tig though
[19:42:16] <roycroft> and you'll probably get a lesson or two
[19:42:49] <roycroft> i have a nice jackson
[19:42:53] <CaptHindsight> $750 delivered http://www.ebay.com/itm/UWELD-WSME200-AC-DC-2-IN-1-TIG-STICK-WELDER-PULSE-ALUMINUM-240VAC-Foot-Pedal-/252374057012
[19:42:55] <roycroft> it has all the bells and whistles
[19:43:07] <roycroft> and the really nice thing is that i can get magnifying lenses that install inside of it
[19:43:21] <roycroft> the lenses fill half the viewing port, and can be moved to the upper half or bottom half
[19:43:28] <CaptHindsight> I need to post a pic of the welding face shield that it comes with
[19:43:32] <roycroft> that's really nice for old people who need reading glasses
[19:43:38] <dioz> tbh... if i spent like $500 and ended up throwing it all in the garbage i wouldn't care as long as i learned something from it
[19:43:58] <CaptHindsight> it's one step above this http://photo.sf.co.ua/g/177/8.jpg
[19:44:29] <andypugh> roycroft: There are lenses available for the £27 helmet that I have too.
[19:44:35] <roycroft> i really think it would be worthwhile seeking out a contuing education course such as i described, or something similar
[19:44:48] <roycroft> get your feet wet for a cheap tuition cost before yo umake the plunge
[19:45:02] <CaptHindsight> tool rental?
[19:45:26] <roycroft> i think one would have a hard time finding an inverter welder at a tool rental yard
[19:45:46] <roycroft> they're too easy to blow up, especially when used by inexperienced renters
[19:45:52] <CaptHindsight> around here it's red tombstone
[19:45:54] <roycroft> and are difficult to repair in house
[19:46:04] <roycroft> nice, andypugh
[19:46:10] <roycroft> i really like the lenses in mine
[19:46:24] <dioz> http://saskpolytech.ca/programs-and-courses/programs/Welding-Applied-Certificate.aspx $3000+ CAD
[19:46:59] <roycroft> i said a not-for-credit adult continuing education class
[19:47:08] <roycroft> you don't want a certication program
[19:47:11] <roycroft> that costs real money
[19:47:26] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: I actually have a mask rather like that one in the pic, except mine is a real product. It was a foundry mask, like a set of gas-welding goggles with a fibre-board plate to protect the face and a nose-cutout with a leather triangle. Intended as a foundry mask in the steelworks, and useful to me as it is flat and takes up very little space when packing welding equipment in motorcycle panniers.
[19:47:28] <roycroft> you only need that if you want to get a job welding
[19:47:29] <dioz> oh i doubt we'd have something liek that here
[19:47:51] <dioz> finding someone to "show me the ropes" would be more likely
[19:48:01] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: have a pic? I'd like to find one
[19:48:06] <roycroft> go to your local high school and chat up the shop teacher
[19:48:17] <roycroft> you might get some rope showing by the teacher
[19:48:19] <dioz> i'm way too old to hang out at a highschool
[19:48:22] <roycroft> or the teacher might point you to someone else
[19:48:27] <roycroft> you go at the end of the day
[19:48:36] <roycroft> when the students have just left
[19:48:58] <roycroft> or go find a small local fabrication shop
[19:49:01] <CaptHindsight> I learned a bit in night school at a local high school
[19:49:06] <roycroft> offer to sweep the floors if they give you some pointers
[19:49:16] <CaptHindsight> they had great equipment
[19:49:48] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: I have never seen one before or since. And I am not even sure that I still have it.
[19:49:54] <CaptHindsight> I mostly went for the old school ox-acetylene class
[19:52:01] <CaptHindsight> ends up I'm glad I did since Tig has similar motions
[19:52:30] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: This is similar: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-new-style-top-quality-Variable-light-Electric-welding-Face-mask-Protective-goggles-glasses-DHCP-5/32539046401.html?spm=2114.40010208.4.36.2Zxsdp
[19:52:44] <dioz> are consumables universal?
[19:52:51] <dioz> i wouldn't think so
[19:53:11] <andypugh> Time to go..
[19:53:16] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: see you
[19:54:25] <CaptHindsight> heh, since sparks never fly into your hair
[19:54:53] <CaptHindsight> maybe there is a matching asbestos hat
[20:06:28] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Used-Coherent-Gem-30A-Laser-With-Cooling-System-/191766115357 350W CO2 for $2500 or best
[20:07:17] <CaptHindsight> death ray for some DIYers
[20:15:59] <SpeedEvil> nice
[20:16:48] <SpeedEvil> Shiny.
[20:17:00] <SpeedEvil> I'm guessing TEA
[20:17:50] <SpeedEvil> Wow.
[20:17:53] <SpeedEvil> 48V/12A in
[20:17:59] <SpeedEvil> that is really quite efficient
[20:19:34] <SpeedEvil> err
[20:19:57] <SpeedEvil> Ah - right
[20:20:07] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.com/itm/COHERENT-DEOS-GEM-30-LASER-30-WATT-W-POWER-SUPPLY/331894408905?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D35389%26meid%3Df252bb24b0034858ba4eabacb94193f1%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D191766115357
[20:20:13] <SpeedEvil> this lists it as 30W.
[20:22:39] <CaptHindsight> http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/BCgAAOSwSdZWeuJ8/s-l1600.jpg
[20:23:47] <CaptHindsight> http://www.coherent.com/downloads/GEM-30A.pdf 30W
[20:24:03] <SpeedEvil> :/
[20:24:08] <CaptHindsight> hhmmm why the 350W sticker on the side?
[20:25:15] <SpeedEvil> Probably a stock warning
[20:26:25] <CaptHindsight> wtf, the 70W laser has a 150W warning sticker
[20:26:41] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/331600995109
[20:27:00] <CaptHindsight> http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/22AAAOSw~uhUoxjN/s-l1600.jpg
[20:28:45] <CaptHindsight> ok so Coherent puts stickers om them with random power levels
[20:29:31] <CaptHindsight> oohh my spindle is half price now
[20:56:27] <dioz> are tig welder consumables universal?
[22:12:44] <CaptHindsight> dioz: https://www.weldingsupply.com/cgi-bin/einstein.pl?Next::1:UNDEF:OR:terms::PE
[22:13:13] <CaptHindsight> torch tips might vary from brand to brand