#linuxcnc | Logs for 2016-07-28

[02:25:44] <Deejay> moin
[04:39:01] <XXCoder> nope
[05:10:33] <archivist_herron> moan
[05:10:56] <XXCoder> too much of something?
[05:12:50] <gonzo__> or not enough
[05:13:04] <XXCoder> sigh a new first now
[05:13:17] <XXCoder> its warmer than average for ENTIRE usa at once
[05:13:27] <XXCoder> previously theres always cooler spots
[05:17:25] <holymoly> Hi peps
[05:17:36] <XXCoder> hey jeeper
[05:18:07] <holymoly> I have a dirty question. I am looking for a spindel
[05:18:36] <holymoly> It should cut wood and alu. So is a 400 W spindle strong to do the job
[05:19:26] <archivist_herron> yes/no/depends
[05:21:13] <holymoly> with tiny bit and slow
[05:21:22] <holymoly> and not to deep
[05:26:54] <jthornton> morning
[08:10:11] <zeeshan-m> hi
[08:10:18] <zeeshan-m> :)
[08:12:03] <JT-Shop> hi zee
[08:12:24] <zeeshan-m> i caught an atlantic salmon!
[08:12:33] <zeeshan-m> pretty fish
[08:13:02] <JT-Shop> nice
[08:13:06] <zeeshan-m> set it back free
[08:14:14] <JT-Shop> catch it in a stream?
[08:19:19] <zeeshan-m> nah off the coast
[08:19:32] <zeeshan-m> i was catching perch mostly
[08:19:44] <zeeshan-m> asap sun went down holy coe
[08:20:01] <zeeshan-m> so many salmon rushed in a big school
[08:25:12] <JT-Shop> sounds like a wild time
[08:25:23] * JT-Shop goes back to the shovel
[09:17:01] * Loetmichel_ is just doing win10-upgrade #6... that does take quite a bit of time. especially making that win7 image beforehand and writing it back after the upgrade ;)
[09:42:36] <oussama> Hello, how can i fix this problem "cannot find module probe_parport in usr/realtime-3.4-9.rtai/modules/linuxcnc ?
[09:44:03] <gregcnc> what have you tried?
[09:47:39] <archivist> oussama, what I told you yesterday
[09:50:15] <oussama> i'm trying to install the new interface for craftsmancnc and i found the same problem
[09:50:56] <archivist> archivist_herron
[09:50:57] <archivist> iirc that is something to remove see upgrading notes
[09:50:57] <archivist> 2016-07-27 14:58:12
[09:50:57] <archivist> archivist_herron
[09:50:57] <archivist> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/getting-started/updating-linuxcnc.html
[09:50:57] <archivist> 2016-07-27 14:58:53
[09:50:59] <archivist> archivist_herron
[09:51:01] <archivist> it is this line Make sure your Hal configuration does not have loadrt probe_parport in any .hal file.
[09:51:17] <gregcnc> pffft reading
[09:51:18] <thomaxo> Hi linuxCNC! Does anyone here have some advice for milling (large) flat surfaces?
[09:51:40] <archivist> Iwondered why it was not in my history here, was at another place
[09:52:12] <gregcnc> i saw it yesterday
[09:52:34] <thomaxo> Our current method leaves alot of marks.. and has bumps in between the passes
[09:52:37] <oussama> so that means i must delete the lines (load parport ) from the .hal files?
[09:52:38] <archivist> thomaxo, what definition of "flat"
[09:53:01] <gregcnc> much of it is machine setup and rigidity
[09:53:36] <archivist> or machine spindle is not perpendicular(error needs fixing)
[09:53:36] <thomaxo> this is what we get with our current mill and cnc: ______/\________/\________/\....
[09:53:54] <gregcnc> less stepover?
[09:53:59] <thomaxo> unless we change the steps to something very very small
[09:54:17] <gregcnc> how big is the surface and what kind fo tool?
[09:54:23] <archivist> usually it is more sawtooth shape
[09:54:48] <thomaxo> yeah, a little bit more sawtooth shape
[09:55:25] <archivist> machine flex/error
[09:55:29] <gregcnc> what machine?
[09:55:39] <thomaxo> the current tool is radius 32, 5 cutters with replacable blades
[09:55:50] <thomaxo> the machine is a bridgeport with heidenhain control
[09:56:08] <archivist> machine is old and worn?
[09:56:16] <thomaxo> machine is pretty old
[09:56:20] <thomaxo> about 10 years i'd say
[09:56:39] <thomaxo> the tool is new and from walter
[09:56:43] <thomaxo> so should be fine
[09:56:43] <archivist> someone rotated the head and not put it back to 0
[09:57:29] <thomaxo> ohs, the millhead(?) does seem to send through some position coordinates
[09:57:40] <thomaxo> i mean spindle*
[09:57:58] <thomaxo> i'll check it out tomorrow, thanks!
[09:59:05] <archivist> I had a chinese mill do that, was badly made
[09:59:57] <thomaxo> as far as i remember, the mill was made for pocketing rather than flattening surfaces
[10:00:13] <thomaxo> not sure if that's a big difference?
[10:01:17] <archivist> do a tramming test/set up
[10:04:11] <Loetmichel_> soo, next notebook in the works... this one needed a bit of CNC milling... all the lids on the bottom were missing... just had 1mm brass on the CNC mill... result: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16375&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 ;-)
[10:05:01] <thomaxo> I'll try tramming it tomorrow, thanks for the help archivist!
[11:04:04] <Frank_15> guys
[11:04:15] <Frank_15> any reviews on huanyung vfd??
[11:12:56] <Sync> they make motors do spinny things
[11:15:48] <Frank_15> hehe i know sync, thanks for chimmiing in, but i was asking how good/bad turned up to be for someone who uses/owns them
[11:16:25] <Sync> I use two of them
[11:16:31] <Sync> they work, nothing more nothing less
[11:16:50] <FloppyDisk> Hmmpf, there was just a comment about the huanyung drives on the linuxcnc mailing list.
[11:17:09] <FloppyDisk> One person had 2, 1 didn't seem to work that well, but that's the first I heard of that.
[11:17:30] <FloppyDisk> His summation: Good for home hobby use, wouldn't put one on a machine that he was selling...
[11:18:12] <FloppyDisk> Oh, many of the chinese spindles come w/ them, so they're fairly used in the hobby/home space.
[11:19:11] <FloppyDisk> Can't beat the price on some of them, that's for sure...
[11:26:26] <Frank_15> i see
[11:26:41] <Frank_15> im looking for more of a business production spindle
[11:26:51] <Frank_15> but they can go up to couple thousands
[11:26:54] <Frank_15> $
[11:27:42] <Frank_15> maybe to start off its a good idea, going back to wark
[11:27:44] <Frank_15> work
[11:27:51] <Frank_15> see you later
[11:56:58] <oussama> Hello , i'm trying to install easygui in debian i taped sudo apt-get install python-easygui but i have this error (cannot find package python easygui) haw can i fix it?
[11:57:04] <Tom_itx> Loetmichel_ why not just tell 10 you don't want it?
[12:02:40] <oussama> Hello , i'm trying to install easygui in debian i taped sudo apt-get install python-easygui but i have this error (cannot find package python easygui) how can i fix it?
[12:04:17] <archivist> never heard of easygui, do they have a support channel
[12:05:12] <Loetmichel_> Tom_itx: because even if i dont want it now: why should i throw the licenses away?
[12:05:28] <Loetmichel_> and today is the second to last day that upgrade is free.
[12:05:34] <Loetmichel_> if you believe MS
[12:05:52] <archivist> I dont believe the borg
[12:06:18] <Loetmichel_> so i upgrade all the PCs here (MS servers save the mainboard serial on their activation servers) and then revert back to the win7 image immediatly
[12:06:38] <Loetmichel_> so that i can install win10 on these machines should i ever intend to
[12:14:31] <CaptHindsight> http://easygui.sourceforge.net/
[12:18:49] <Tom_itx> how do you keep the upgrade if you revert?
[12:20:09] <Tom_itx> they probably mirror all your private data on the 'cloud' too
[12:25:42] <CaptHindsight> clouds are safe since they are made from vapor, well mostly safe except when they have lightening or get turned off
[12:26:13] <plpower> hi
[12:26:37] <CaptHindsight> it's funny how they keep your computer and its data safe from you
[12:27:14] <archivist> for a peculiar definition of "safe"
[12:28:12] <CaptHindsight> easily hacked by 3rd parties
[12:28:26] <CaptHindsight> just like our medical records in the USA
[12:28:45] <plpower> someone shoudt give frank_15 this link as for cheep spindel up to 7,5Kw
[12:28:49] <plpower> https://www.amazon.de/Lartuer-Frequenzumrichter-Variable-Frequency-CNC-Spindel/dp/B017647CR6
[12:44:13] <FloppyDisk> Or this one: https://www.amazon.de/Lartuer-Luftgek%C3%BChlten-Spindelmotor-Passendem-Gravieren/dp/B0179SARRQ/
[12:44:42] <FloppyDisk> But, I think he needs to decide what he's going to do w/ it and what level of performance (ie maint) he can live with.
[12:45:13] <CaptHindsight> is that one German/Chinese?
[12:46:56] <CaptHindsight> I wonder how much sooner the war would have been over if Germany had outsourced its manufacturing of tanks, aircraft and munitions to China?
[12:48:21] <CaptHindsight> I wonder how well today the Chinese military makes its own equipment
[12:49:19] <FloppyDisk> The only comment I have is that we've been ripping on quality for different countries for years... Japan, Korea come to mind. How long will it be before we don't rip china (maybe it's never, but seems to be a trend).
[12:49:24] <CaptHindsight> or is it that only their consumer QC is just crap
[12:49:47] <FloppyDisk> And, I've heard some people say that China can make good stuff when they want too...
[12:49:55] <FloppyDisk> maybe so...
[12:50:47] <CaptHindsight> Japan got ripped for the whole Pearl Harbor thing even after they produced very high quality products
[12:51:40] <CaptHindsight> 30 years ago older people would not buy Sony, MGA, Panaroach etc since they were Japanese
[12:52:46] <CaptHindsight> IMHO China will take at least another generation to get QC
[12:53:56] <CaptHindsight> it's the kids their now that are taking apart their broken toys that will be their next tinkerers
[12:54:09] <CaptHindsight> their/there
[12:55:41] <CaptHindsight> the 20-something wizkids I try to work with there don't know enough yet
[12:56:08] <CaptHindsight> many didn't touch a computer until their first year in college
[12:56:18] <CaptHindsight> don't have tools at home
[12:57:40] <CaptHindsight> and it's currently better fr their economy if you have to buy everything every 2 years vs have things that last
[13:19:04] * JT-Shop takes a Myford Boy break
[13:56:16] <Sync> hm
[13:56:33] <toxx> hi, i would like to play with the tripod kinematiks, but have some questions about kinematics
[13:56:44] <Sync> my owis precision elevator stage is made interestingly
[13:56:48] <toxx> this one: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Alex_Joni%27s_Toy
[13:57:10] <Sync> they have a diagonal element and a thing with 4 ball bearings that is mounted to a ballscrew that pushes it up and down
[13:57:50] <toxx> sorry: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Alex_Joni's_Toy
[13:58:44] <toxx> seems to be tripod kinematics module with x y z, omitting the z axis
[13:59:34] <toxx> would it be possible to program this module with 3 joints, but only 2 axes?
[14:00:33] <toxx> i would need z and maybe w in trivial kinematcs type.
[14:01:27] <toxx> my idea is to control a pantograph from an oldstyle engraving machine with wires for x and y
[14:02:49] <toxx> this is the machine: http://mistkisterl.de/deckel-g1l/slide_2.html
[14:19:05] <_abc_> Hello. I have a rather stupid question. I found some cheap "diamond knife sharpening / shining" implements, would you use those to finely touch up your carbide or steel tool tips? I.e. mill bits? Assume the mill bits are very small and have already been custom ground, i.e. they are no longer in the oem shape?
[14:31:11] <Sync> you can _abc_ although usually if they are shot it is better to just pop in a new one
[14:33:27] <_abc_> At 150 EUR a pop and 7 day delivery i prefer to give it a shot or two or 5. I am very good with a universal grinder and I frequently make mill bits with strange shapes on it. But I would like to know if the better (upscale) knife sharpening thingies can be used for mills. Has anyone here tried?
[14:35:37] <SpeedEvil> While mill bits may be made of high quality steel, they can rarely read the pricetags of the sharpening stones.
[14:36:17] <SpeedEvil> What do you mean by 'very small' ?
[14:41:46] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFkVxurKeAs 'computational thermoforming' - thermoforming + printing a predistorted flat plastic
[14:43:40] <_methods> cool
[14:54:52] <andypugh> SpeedEvil: Definitely one of those “Why didn’t I tjink of that” things. In fact I am not sure that I haven’t thought of it and just assumed it was commonplace.
[14:55:13] <SpeedEvil> I suspect it is in some industries
[15:10:26] <CaptHindsight> look up pictaflex
[15:11:01] <CaptHindsight> they were doing it with thinner sheets with the image on thin film
[15:11:54] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBsvji9H85Q pictaflex
[15:22:13] <_abc_> SpeedEvil: the mill bits I tend to use are carbide. They will drill holes into normal carborundum abrasive wheels without even noticing the material on the way.
[15:53:45] <Tom_itx> _abc_, rather than trying to hone them yourself find a decent regrind shop
[15:56:29] <Tom_itx> _abc_ as far as sharpening, metal is metal whether it's a knife or endmill
[15:59:53] <_abc_> :)
[16:06:49] <yasnak> tell that to my fingers
[16:06:59] <yasnak> actjually, im good yet. my boss has lost a few tho :P
[16:10:42] * Tom_itx wonders if JT-Shop is gettin wet yet
[16:26:56] <CaptHindsight> we were printing graphics on shrink film about 12 years ago to bond to and decorate items
[16:28:12] <Deejay> gn8
[16:29:17] <CaptHindsight> Mattel tried inkjet for printing graphics on Hot Wheels but they didn't want to pay us to build the printers so they failed
[16:30:18] <CaptHindsight> they would have to thermoform a few cars per second
[16:30:41] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: In an automated manner for the design, or relying on someone to distort the graphics
[16:30:54] <CaptHindsight> so they would need several parallel systems to do it by heat wrapping
[16:31:22] <CaptHindsight> I think hot wheel are still die cast
[16:31:51] <CaptHindsight> maybe it depends on the series
[16:32:18] <CaptHindsight> you can UV inkjet the cars pretty quickly
[16:32:43] <CaptHindsight> 600dpi at several meters/second
[16:38:48] <CaptHindsight> Mattel was making 500k hot wheel cars per week
[16:40:30] <CaptHindsight> in the end they wanted to a video of how the machine would work so that they could make it internally
[16:40:45] <CaptHindsight> nice try!
[16:43:29] <_abc_> CaptHindsight: let them shoot video of the working machine with things moving at 3m/sec inside it in dodgy CFL light.
[16:43:44] <_abc_> From a safe distance <wink>
[16:44:52] <CaptHindsight> _abc_: yeah, but they wanted a video of the internals without having to buy a printer
[16:45:20] <CaptHindsight> the black box would not have been good enough
[16:46:26] <_abc_> CaptHindsight: place plushy bunnies inside machine, like 50 of them, on key parts, let them make the video.
[16:47:06] <CaptHindsight> _abc_: the point you seem to be missing is that they never wanted to pay someone else to build them
[16:47:39] <CaptHindsight> so after 6 months and 50 bunnies they still would nto be paying you anything
[16:47:46] <_abc_> CaptHindsight: well you can sell them as many videos as they want, at $50 each. Filming from the same angle always, just move the bunnies a bit without uncovering important stuff.
[16:48:10] <CaptHindsight> heh, they don't pay for videos
[16:48:26] <_abc_> Still, strange, I thought they are not that stingy as a company.
[16:49:05] <CaptHindsight> like several others they just want to see how you build the machine and then they will unsuccessfully not be able to copy it
[16:49:31] <_abc_> I have been "asked" to work on project which were obliquely related to things I discussed online a long time before that. Of course we know that what one discusses online openly is either inexistant or old hat. But they don't know that. Being a plainclothes officer/spy must be a bitch, orders are orders.
[16:49:58] <CaptHindsight> anyone that wants to see the machine work vs just hand you specs and ask how much and how long isn't looking for you to build it
[16:50:14] <_abc_> CaptHindsight: I don't think that's the whole story, maybe they made something in house that did not work and tried to peek at someone else's way.
[16:50:24] <CaptHindsight> they were
[16:51:28] <CaptHindsight> I send them a video of the magic hollow tree in the woods where you leave the materials at nightfall and when you return the next day..
[16:51:47] <CaptHindsight> the magic elves have built the parts
[16:52:05] <_abc_> ;)
[16:52:11] <_abc_> Did they play along with that?
[16:52:31] <CaptHindsight> for some reason they weren't satisfied with that
[16:53:04] <CaptHindsight> the other set of duchbag non-clients are the ones that send you parts and then want samples
[16:53:13] <CaptHindsight> in days without paying
[16:53:28] <CaptHindsight> for something that takes months to build a proto for
[16:54:50] <_abc_> :)
[16:56:59] <CaptHindsight> if they aren't willing to have some skin in the game they aren't worth dealing with
[17:33:18] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight they couldn't copy it because they're not chinese
[17:35:01] <CaptHindsight> haha
[17:35:16] <CaptHindsight> the factory was actually in Thailand
[17:35:48] <CaptHindsight> the mechanical genius was in LA
[17:36:07] <CaptHindsight> he was Chinese :)
[17:37:57] <Tom_itx> i know a guy in the car audio amp business where they try to do the same thing
[17:38:32] <Tom_itx> they add shit code in the controls just to throw em off a month or so until the next model comes out
[17:39:08] <Tom_itx> never know as a consumer what you're buying :)
[17:40:50] <CaptHindsight> anything remotely complex I don't fear it being copied in China, they tend to miss the fine details
[17:41:01] <miss0r> I am building a tool post grinder. I have the 'spindle' part complete, checking it for runout. Up to this point everything held within specs.. so WHY ON EARTH DID I CHEAP OUT ON THE BEARINGS !?
[17:41:19] <CaptHindsight> I handed someone a working SLA printer that they were not able to copy
[17:41:46] <CaptHindsight> since they could not grasp the materials and chemistry involved
[17:42:05] <miss0r> in that case I am chine at the moment :)
[17:42:41] <CaptHindsight> miss0r: did you recently spend any time in reprap, even unknowingly?
[17:43:00] <miss0r> I have 0.04mm radial runout on this thing. I could've accepted 0.004, but not this!
[17:43:08] <miss0r> reprap?
[17:43:25] <CaptHindsight> #reprap
[17:43:32] <miss0r> in that case, no
[17:43:33] <miss0r> :)
[17:43:36] <CaptHindsight> don't go there!
[17:43:46] <miss0r> didn't even cross my mind
[17:44:43] <miss0r> CaptHindsight: You know alot about random stuff. How much radial runout on the axle of a grinding stone would you accept(be able to dress your way out of)?
[17:45:30] <CaptHindsight> miss0r: I'm a terrible Jeopardy contestant
[17:46:12] <miss0r> can't remember asking if you were ;)
[17:46:19] <JT-Shop> lol
[17:46:42] <CaptHindsight> all my pop culture answers are: someone that probably should not have been conceived
[17:46:51] <JT-Shop> I like <0.00001"
[17:47:18] <miss0r> JT-Shop: I would've liked that too :)
[17:47:19] <CaptHindsight> yeah <1um
[17:47:54] <miss0r> What the hell went through my head when I though these cheap 32006 would do nicely?
[17:48:05] <CaptHindsight> everyone does it
[17:48:26] <CaptHindsight> it's like proofreading your own docs
[17:48:44] <miss0r> also - they are roller bearings. notorious for sucking
[17:48:59] <miss0r> I should get some angular ball bearings instead.
[17:49:18] <miss0r> also - my design doesn't realy allow for changing the bearings :) lol
[17:50:30] <miss0r> feck it. i'll go to bed. its 00:30 here anyway. see you guys around
[18:42:42] <SpeedEvil> https://www.patreon.com/badobsessionmotorsport - I'll just note
[19:07:08] <Sync> SpeedEvil: yeah I have bought some swaggy tea mugs from them
[21:47:49] <Duc> I give up installing a new OS on this dam laptop
[21:48:46] <Duc> tryed to replace windows 10 with linuxcnc and cdrom is dead, portable cd is having issues and the laptop is having issues
[22:10:54] <FloppyDisk> hmmm, maybe try a usb install if you have it left in you.
[22:11:52] <dioz> is linuxcnc a operating system?
[22:12:54] <FloppyDisk> linuxcnc is not an OS
[22:13:20] <FloppyDisk> why do you ask?
[22:13:54] <dioz> i assume he means he's trying to boot the livecd
[22:14:40] <FloppyDisk> Yes, but I think you can install or run off USB as well.
[22:14:51] <dioz> well. you'd be installing or booting linux
[22:14:58] <dioz> then running the package linuxcnc
[22:34:42] <roycroft> there is a self-installing image that installs ubuntu + linuxcnc
[22:34:57] <roycroft> and a ubuntu livecd with linuxcnc
[22:38:30] <dioz> what i'm getting at is you wouldn't replace windows 10 with linuxcnc
[22:38:40] <dioz> as linuxcnc isn't a operating system
[22:45:48] <RootB> Hey linuxCNC
[22:45:55] <RootB> do you guys recommend a Laser cutter machine?
[22:46:01] <RootB> I'm thinking on spending 4K at most
[22:46:03] <RootB> 2k-4K
[22:55:01] <RootB> anyone?
[22:55:15] <tiwake> ponies
[22:56:15] <witnit> caribou?
[22:56:23] <tiwake> no, ponies
[22:56:33] <witnit> caribou gonnnnneeee?
[22:56:50] <tiwake> magical flying ponies
[22:58:09] <tiwake> https://derpibooru.org/1197392
[22:59:18] <witnit> that thing looks like a master of the galaxies
[23:00:07] <tiwake> her name is twilight sparkle :P
[23:01:29] <RootB> damn
[23:01:32] <RootB> that's colorful
[23:08:35] <RootB> Damn
[23:08:48] <RootB> it seems lasercutting is another league when it comes to prices
[23:08:57] <RootB> chinese shit will only get me into trouble and possible a missing eye
[23:09:22] <tiwake> jep
[23:09:29] <tiwake> cutting thin stuff?
[23:09:54] <RootB> I want to start a small gig
[23:09:55] <tiwake> if you are cutting thin stuff you want a galvo based system
[23:10:00] <tiwake> or engraving
[23:10:13] <tiwake> its extremely fast
[23:10:22] <RootB> I'm looking at the rabbit laser machines, apperantly they're refurbished chinese machines
[23:10:27] <RootB> and a lot of people work with them
[23:10:44] <RootB> I own a 3d printer a modded shapeoko 2 and i want to get a laser cutter/engraver
[23:10:54] <RootB> See If i can make some additional income
[23:11:03] <tiwake> galvo with f-theta lens <3
[23:11:12] <RootB> how much is the price, Timbo
[23:11:13] <RootB> tiwake
[23:11:36] <tiwake> a decent/good f-theta lens is $1,000, give or take a little
[23:11:50] <RootB> shit
[23:11:56] <RootB> so a decent machine is around 5k?
[23:11:58] <tiwake> (PS: optics are not cheap, don't cheap out on them)
[23:12:18] <RootB> what machine do you own, tiwake?
[23:12:28] <tiwake> I don't own any
[23:12:39] <RootB> oh
[23:13:02] <tiwake> been a machinist for 10 years, and did all the research you are doing right now
[23:13:24] <RootB> guess you know more than me in that topic
[23:14:19] <tiwake> actually you might be able to find a CO2 laster f-theta lens cheaper than 808nm wavelength
[23:14:33] <tiwake> cause they are used a lot more
[23:15:07] <tiwake> 10k nm wavelength is CO2 lasers
[23:15:31] <tiwake> https://derpibooru.org/717537
[23:17:37] <tiwake> oh I forgot about this other one
[23:23:37] <tiwake> https://derpibooru.org/317376
[23:24:38] <tiwake> anyway, I'm done :P