#linuxcnc | Logs for 2016-07-10

[00:02:19] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QK6iSgRrNXM&feature=em-uploademail
[00:02:21] <XXCoder> nice
[00:02:43] <XXCoder> so much welding
[01:23:25] <XXCoder> hmm
[01:24:03] <XXCoder> perfectly silent since, think we are on orphaned server
[01:24:57] <XXCoder> or maybe not lol
[02:26:11] <Deejay> moin
[02:34:57] <XXCoder> wow someone speaks lol
[03:26:51] <XXCoder> http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-06-19
[03:26:55] <XXCoder> so dang funny.
[03:39:17] <Deejay> harhar, good one
[03:39:25] <XXCoder> indeed
[04:11:37] <XXCoder> welcome back
[04:12:16] <archivist> the netsplit is still split
[04:13:46] <XXCoder> this must be one of longest splits I ever seen if you was still on that server
[04:14:17] <archivist> my bot is one side and xchat the other
[04:14:36] <archivist> nearly 4 hours now
[04:14:54] <_abc_> Hello. Does anyone know if a machine with linuxcnc installed on it can be used (parallel port) without trouble with things like avrdude which require direct pport access? I am going to try this later, but I am interested if someone already did this? Thanks.
[04:15:10] <_abc_> archivist: Hello. What bot. Just joined.
[04:15:50] <archivist> my bot logs this channel
[04:16:14] <_abc_> Ooh. And the archives are online?
[04:16:37] <archivist> there are multiple archives online for this channel
[04:16:47] <archivist> bookmark
[04:16:47] <the_wench> yet another log is at http://emclog.archivist.info/
[04:17:22] <archivist> !zlog
[04:17:51] <_abc_> I see the channel bot almost works ;) thanks the_wench
[04:17:58] <_abc_> Or is the_wench also a bot
[04:18:18] <archivist> that is my bot
[04:18:23] <_abc_> ok
[04:18:26] <XXCoder> this channel is 99% bots
[04:18:30] <XXCoder> including me and archivist
[04:18:42] <XXCoder> archivist is unique that hes a bot that had created and ran another bot
[04:19:01] <_abc_> Right. I need my daily ration of oil soon, or I'll waste.
[04:19:15] <_abc_> (about lunch time here)
[04:19:25] <the_wench> at a sentient bot at that
[04:19:46] <XXCoder> lol ok. your question hopefully someone wll know answer to
[04:19:46] <archivist> with similar tyops to me
[04:19:51] <_abc_> Wow you can misspell. Genius. Google will buy you to run its self driving cars in Asia.
[04:20:01] <_abc_> (was talking to the bot)
[04:20:55] <_abc_> Unfortunately the machine which has a native parallel port is nearly impossible to boot from usb stick and fumbling with its ancient dvd drive is off limts for a nice Sunday. So I'll have to try on another machine.
[04:21:19] <XXCoder> looks like splitville finally ended
[04:21:34] <XXCoder> around 4 hours
[04:27:10] <_abc_> I don't see splits and other noises. irssi is nice like that
[04:27:54] <yasnak> yeah, got disconnected awhile back. Pretty sure it was from storms and power though
[04:28:18] <_abc_> irc packet storms are particularly strong this Summer
[04:29:18] <yasnak> The next kid that says they'll 'ddos' whatever should be slowly beat.
[04:29:34] <_abc_> Why slowly?
[04:29:42] <yasnak> good point
[04:29:49] <yasnak> you get more done when working faster
[04:30:11] <yasnak> *5am here, little tired yet
[04:33:16] <XXCoder> 2 am here
[04:40:57] <varesa> what kind of pulse rates can usually be achieved with a parallel port without something like a mesa card?
[04:41:17] <XXCoder> that depends in lot of factors
[04:41:22] <XXCoder> like latency
[04:43:19] <varesa> what is the range usually? I'm trying to find some information on google but not finding any
[04:47:03] <archivist> varies with latency
[04:48:27] <_abc_> varesa: on bare metal with proper supported hardware (i.e. vanilla flavor pc) you can count on at least 100kHz from the port itself, for hardware reasons, but it can go much faster sometimes. The speed is determined by the upper layers and by latency/dropout proneness of the machine.
[04:49:17] <_abc_> in the 1990s I clocked a simple pport on an ISA card at 2MHz square wave out but that was programmed in asm on bare metal. Clock tick interrupts and the like will disturb the continuous output.
[04:49:23] <_abc_> Without a FIFO.
[04:49:50] <XXCoder> theres few ways to improve it too
[04:50:08] <XXCoder> less IRQ devices, like stop using motherboard built in vieo card and use card
[04:50:22] <archivist> the speed is related to the base thread BASE_PERIOD = 50000
[04:50:53] <archivist> that being in ns
[04:51:23] <_abc_> Well one thing is, I run machines with NO feedback, not even end switches, and then you can simply add an external fifo and pour on the speed quite a bit because latency simply becomes a delay in filling the fifo which never empties.
[04:51:38] <_abc_> I do not recommend you do this but I know what I need.
[04:53:02] <_abc_> Anyway I find cheap drivers from the internet are speed limited by optocouplers and the like, one can't put much more than about 2000Hz through the el cheapo couplers these use without risking lost steps.
[04:53:11] <varesa> a friend is doing a retrofit on an bridgeport cnc mill. We do not have any new hardware yet (except one G203V). Trying to figure out if a hardware step gen card is a must
[04:53:20] <_abc_> Simulation in spice shows how bad those circuits are and a scope looking at real signals on a board will make you a believer.
[04:53:44] <XXCoder> I wonder if chinese cheap hardware step generator works ok lol
[04:54:05] <archivist> varesa, not a must but best
[04:54:07] <_abc_> Note 4000Hz on a 400ppr stepper is just 10rps or 600rpm. With fine pitch leadscrews (I use 1mm) that is quite slow!
[04:54:37] <archivist> my Z is 1mm pitch and slow
[04:54:43] <_abc_> And that's without microstepping which can halve or quarter it again
[04:55:01] <_abc_> archivist: yes but you use proper tool machines I use mostly cheap and diy things.
[04:55:07] <XXCoder> mines 4 mm / rotation
[04:55:13] <archivist> my mill is diy
[04:55:27] <_abc_> diy in the sense that you took a nice machine and cnc'd it, I assume.
[04:55:46] <archivist> no, the Z is an old MD65 lathe
[04:55:53] <_abc_> I saw pictures from your shack, I don't think it's a heap of plywood and hardware store supplies.
[04:56:10] <archivist> some is from a scrap yard
[04:56:13] <_abc_> (some of mine are just that - they work nicely anyway)
[04:56:25] <_abc_> (ply + hw store supplies)
[04:57:18] <archivist> that base thread speed number is from a very poor latency PC
[04:58:28] <_abc_> archivist: My 2MHz out measurements was from a 1990s era i386sx board running at 33MHz with real ISA io card parallel, with ISA bus clocked at 7.x MHz.
[04:58:42] <XXCoder> sx??
[04:58:43] <_abc_> I am SURE one can outdo that easily with a PCI io card
[04:58:49] <XXCoder> that does not have math coprocessor
[04:58:52] <_abc_> yep
[04:58:56] <_abc_> And it ran linux...
[04:59:00] <_abc_> In 8MB ram
[04:59:06] <_abc_> With Gui mind you
[04:59:25] <XXCoder> _abc_: that was my first pc I built lol
[04:59:28] <_abc_> Takes a while to boot X11 though
[04:59:29] <SpeedEvil> _abc_: also note it's possible to boot with cpu=realnumber-1
[04:59:39] <XXCoder> only it only had 4 mb. even at cheap $50 per mb it was too costly for me
[04:59:45] <SpeedEvil> _abc_: this lets you later bring up the CPU under your app control
[05:00:07] <_abc_> SpeedEvil: I have never tampered with that option.
[05:00:08] <SpeedEvil> _abc_: which means in principle you can treat the CPU like a microcontroller with no interrupts going at 2GHz hooked to pcie
[05:00:10] <yasnak> computers are an expensive hobby when you think about it. haha
[05:00:22] <_abc_> SpeedEvil: yes, but there will be bus contention at times, I think?
[05:00:27] <SpeedEvil> _abc_: well, yes
[05:00:40] <SpeedEvil> _abc_: but the longest pcie bus transaction is not very long
[05:00:56] <_abc_> SpeedEvil: been looking for a LOONG time into building a fast io card into DIMM footprint and mapping it into the north bridge ram space on linux, with custom kernel drivers.
[05:01:00] <archivist> DMA will screw you
[05:01:16] <_abc_> Never got around to it. Instant 1GHz capable 32/64 bit io
[05:01:20] <_abc_> archivist: probably
[05:01:38] <_abc_> SpeedEvil: I think I tinkered with this for at least 15 years.
[05:01:39] <XXCoder> why are you using such low end pc for linuxcnc anyway
[05:01:40] <_abc_> At least.
[05:01:52] <_abc_> XXCoder: I was in 1990's... and it was not linuxcnc then
[05:02:05] <archivist> nvidia and power management stealing interrupt time as well
[05:02:06] <XXCoder> oh nm, thought it was related to linuxcnc lol
[05:02:07] * SpeedEvil tries to imagine a CNC needing 1GHz IO
[05:02:25] <_abc_> SpeedEvil: direct drive ultrasonic motors? About 6 running at 100kHz each?
[05:02:32] <_abc_> SpeedEvil: 3-4 phases each
[05:03:00] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[05:03:16] <_abc_> Also those could easily run at a few MHz depending on requirements and size
[05:09:10] <varesa> so with the BASE_PERIOD = 50µS the max step rate is 10kHz?
[05:15:17] <XXCoder> that guy amazes me
[05:15:19] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULJE4MsJpR4&list=TL-BHgeegMh7oxMDA3MjAxNg
[05:15:30] <XXCoder> such a junk machine but working lol
[05:15:43] <XXCoder> more or less can be built from pure junkyard trash
[05:22:25] <archivist> varesa, something like that, a better PC manages twice that or better
[05:25:15] <varesa> yeah, my crappy PC with no tuning had a max latency of 42µS, mostly around 25µS
[05:26:29] <jthornton> morning
[05:26:42] <archivist> but you can live with crappy PCs using a mesa card
[05:30:02] <varesa> anyone familiar with bridgeport CNC mills, originally fitted with a BOSS 4 control?
[05:30:31] <XXCoder> archivist: wouldnt step generators also help
[05:30:33] <varesa> don't have access to the machine yet, trying to figure out the steps/in. Does 200 steps/rev, 5TPI, 2:1 gearing sound right?
[05:30:43] <XXCoder> since it now does not depend on computer as much
[05:30:56] <varesa> XXCoder, mesa cards have a step generator, no?
[05:31:21] <archivist> XXCoder, step generator is either in mesa card or linuxcnc
[05:31:27] <XXCoder> varesa: I may be using wrong word, its seperate modules that takes command and generates signals to steppers and sucjh
[05:34:18] <XXCoder> http://upload.ecvv.com/upload/Product/20139/China_Economic_Kit_4_Axis_Nema17_Stepper_Motor_52N_cm_73_oz_in_Driver_Power_Supply20139261111202.jpg
[05:34:29] <XXCoder> I'm talking about 4 modules on top right
[05:34:39] <XXCoder> right of two power boxes
[05:36:00] <varesa> The mesa cards can take commands and generate the steps, right?
[05:36:20] <varesa> "Firmware modules are provided for hardware step generation, quadrature encoder counting, PWM generation, ..."
[05:36:27] <XXCoder> I'd guess so as my el cheapo tb6560 does
[05:36:37] <XXCoder> it does then
[05:38:40] <archivist> varesa, yes and you will also be equipped to upgrade to servo late
[05:38:47] <archivist> later
[05:39:18] <XXCoder> why is servos always much more expensive
[05:39:38] <XXCoder> theres also "closed loop steppers" which has encoders
[05:48:11] <enleth> varesa: I'm preparing to retrofit a similar machine, Heidenhain control but otherwise similar/identical to some BOSS varieties
[05:48:46] <XXCoder> enleth: you happen to know why servos is always more pricy?
[05:49:26] <enleth> varesa: you already have the machine and can't choose something else, right?
[05:49:35] <varesa> enleth, yes
[05:49:55] <enleth> varesa: well too bad, servo-based versions basically cost the same now and they're much better retrofit machines
[05:50:11] <enleth> actually they often cost less than the servos they have would cost new
[05:50:42] <varesa> enleth, the machine has been in use for many years with the BOSS system but now enough smoke has escaped the original electronics it's not reasonable to keep fixing it anymore
[05:51:03] <enleth> the 3 SEMs on mine would cost 2x more to buy now than I paid for the mill - and, yes, they're still being made after 40+ years
[05:51:08] <XXCoder> man up, replace caps and chips ;)
[05:51:20] <varesa> I gave the owner the idea of retrofitting it with new stepper drives and linuxcnc
[05:51:35] <enleth> XXCoder: I guess they cost more because they're better?
[05:52:02] <XXCoder> enleth: I suppose. just that I dont envision it being expecially more complex outside addition of encoders.
[05:52:34] <varesa> XXCoder, this is mainly an electronics company. One of their engineers has been fixing it and replacing caps and blown transistors for a year or something until they gave up
[05:52:43] <enleth> XXCoder: more seriously - no market for small stuff or something probably. builders of small machines prefer steppers because there's no PID-within-a-PID to set up
[05:52:56] <enleth> XXCoder: so there's no market for small cheap servos
[05:53:06] <XXCoder> enleth: makes sense. took micromarket 101 years ago lol
[05:53:12] <XXCoder> lower demend = pricier
[05:53:39] <XXCoder> varesa: yeah was mainly kidding but yeah there is a definite point where its time to cut off and do something new
[05:53:44] <enleth> XXCoder: not only lower demand, they don't even make that many small servos
[05:53:53] <jthornton> I can get steppers with built in encoders and drives that are reasonable
[05:54:16] <XXCoder> jthornton: yeah closed loop steppers
[05:54:28] <enleth> XXCoder: if you're buying second hand, you can get a multi-kilowatt beast for close to scrap price, but small stuff is nonexistent on the used market
[05:54:39] <jthornton> all in one small package
[05:56:28] <jthornton> http://www.jvlusa.com/
[05:56:57] <enleth> varesa: you actually might want to look for second hand servos
[05:57:07] <jthornton> http://www.jvl.dk/1109/jvl-closed-loop-stepper-motors
[05:57:46] <XXCoder> nema23 variants of closed loop steppers actually isnt common, weirdly enough
[05:58:26] <enleth> varesa: used AMC and Copley Controls servo drives go for $30 a piece if you look hard enough on ebay and they're nigh indestructible if you don't do something stupid, so second-hand units are like new
[05:59:26] <varesa> enleth, I can ask the owner but I don't think he wanted to replace the original steppers
[05:59:49] <varesa> was going to throw some geckos or similar in there
[06:00:11] <enleth> ah, ok
[06:00:18] <archivist> do geckos have the muscle for the original steppers
[06:00:27] <enleth> yeah, probably not
[06:00:30] <jymmm> XXCoder: Kinda is, but on positoning equip (wafer fab, etc)
[06:00:32] <enleth> even leadshines would do better
[06:00:49] <enleth> varesa: still, you might want to look up the datasheets for those steppers
[06:01:11] <varesa> the originals are 8A, G203V are just 7A
[06:01:14] <XXCoder> jymmm: interesting. I suppose not enough people want underpowered but expensive closed loop steppers nema 23
[06:01:15] <enleth> varesa: I distinctively remember seeing a lot of comments on forums etc. about those steppers being huge clunky pieces of shit
[06:01:29] <jthornton> the g203v takes up to 80v
[06:01:31] <varesa> but a lot of people still seem to use them and he already has a few on the shelf
[06:01:44] <enleth> varesa: as in, horrible torque-to-velocity characteristics for their size
[06:01:54] <varesa> enleth, yeah, propably
[06:02:08] <jymmm> XXCoder: Nothing "underpowered" about moving a 8" silicone wafer, of pick and place machine
[06:02:17] <jymmm> or*
[06:02:23] <XXCoder> ok
[06:02:47] <XXCoder> isnt wafer quite light
[06:02:55] <jymmm> yep
[06:02:58] <XXCoder> unless you talking about entire extrusion rod pre-cut?
[06:03:25] <jymmm> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wafer_%28electronics%29
[06:03:33] <XXCoder> I almost got that job funnily lol one of way too many jobs i fail to get because peoples not willing to pay for interpeter
[06:03:40] <jymmm> naked cpu's etc =)
[06:03:44] <XXCoder> indeed.
[06:04:43] <XXCoder> job related to silicine wafers anyway (there is lots positions)
[06:05:17] <enleth> varesa: just so you know - used SEM MT30H4 series brushed DC servos, the same they used in my bridgeport (MT30H4-44 to be exact) are available on eBay for less than $200 a piece
[06:05:56] <varesa> I'll ask him but sounds like that will double the cost of the project
[06:06:04] <enleth> ah, ok
[06:06:17] <XXCoder> do a 5 finger discount
[06:06:20] <enleth> keep that in mind for a future job then, those servos are awesome
[06:06:28] <varesa> will do
[06:06:29] <XXCoder> much cheaper, though bit risk too
[06:06:31] <enleth> the only hard part about fitting them properly is making/finding a multi-kilowatt 140VDC power supply
[06:06:33] <XXCoder> kidding
[06:07:37] <jymmm> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=aWVywhzuHnQ#t=119
[06:10:29] <XXCoder> jymmm: nice video
[06:10:54] <XXCoder> I wondered why silican rods looked like that
[06:11:16] <XXCoder> silicon rocket lol
[06:11:25] <jymmm> XXCoderYeah, never seen blank wafers made, only the post etched
[06:13:36] <enleth> that's also the reason CPUs with more cache are more expensive
[06:14:00] <enleth> the silicon is purer near the center of the silicon cylinder, with more contamination nearer the edges
[06:14:12] <enleth> so the "cleaner" part of each wafer is smaller
[06:14:32] <XXCoder> I guess they use outer for less sensive applications?
[06:14:49] <enleth> and the father you get from the center, the more contamination, so contaminated area is exponentially more abundant
[06:14:52] <varesa> who thought it was a good idea not to put the microstep count on the g203V specs/manual
[06:15:03] <enleth> while cache takes up a big area on the chip
[06:15:23] <jymmm> varesa: 10 microsteps
[06:15:23] <enleth> so a cache block is most likely to get hit with a contamination
[06:15:29] <jthornton> the g203v is fixed at 10 microsteps but it morphs to 1 as the speed goes up
[06:15:34] <jthornton> very smooth drive
[06:15:40] <enleth> so they make the CPU cache modular and they can disable cache blocks permanently after testing
[06:15:59] <varesa> yeah, found that on forums. I would think to put that on the product webpage...
[06:16:21] <enleth> which means than on a single wafer, there will be very few finished dies around the center with all cache blocks intact, plus more and more parially damaged ones
[06:16:46] <enleth> the damaged ones will get the bad blocks disabled, sometimes also bad cores disabled, and will be sold as lower tier models
[06:17:35] <jymmm> varesa: Like in the title of the page? http://www.geckodrive.com/g203v.html - G203V Vampire 10 Microstep Digital Stepper Drive | Step Motor Controls:
[06:17:45] <enleth> that makes it possible to make use of partailly-damaged parts and release lower tier products with minimal R&D overhead, but the top of the line CPUs are expensive for a reason
[06:17:51] <enleth> *partially
[06:17:55] <XXCoder> enleth: interestin
[06:17:58] <varesa> jymmm, my browser tab is not wide enough to see that :(
[06:18:16] <XXCoder> enleth: I'd have used larger and less sensive designs on near ends of disk
[06:18:29] <jymmm> varesa: sucks to be you?
[06:18:33] <XXCoder> so 100% useful (though inner cpus still will have higher price
[06:19:02] <enleth> XXCoder: same goes for GPUs, the processing streams that got hit with a speck of dust embedded in the silicon get disabled and the die is sold for a lower tier card
[06:19:33] <enleth> XXCoder: in a way, this is what they're doing by making the design "less sensitive" by disabling damaged parts
[06:19:43] <XXCoder> makes sense I guess
[06:19:55] <XXCoder> I also guess bad ones is recycled agaib melt and so on?
[06:20:32] <enleth> I guess, no idea, I never cared to ask/look up what happens to the cutoffs
[06:21:13] <enleth> although they are contaminated with more/different stuff than raw silicon at this point, so they might be less suitable for reprocessing
[06:21:54] <enleth> anyway this is why AMD released 3-core CPUs
[06:22:32] <XXCoder> silicon time may be ending anyway
[06:22:38] <XXCoder> they found a way to do it on glass
[06:22:58] <enleth> now read that again
[06:23:09] <XXCoder> tests included soldering wires that so strong that wire cant be pulled off
[06:23:29] <XXCoder> I know, silicon too lol but cheap glass
[06:25:03] <enleth> actually silicon oxide oxide is used in the manufacturing of pure silicon substrate circuits
[06:25:18] <enleth> *s/oxide oxide/oxide/
[06:25:28] <XXCoder> so so2o ?
[06:25:37] <enleth> so it might not be a completely different process after all
[06:27:14] <XXCoder> enleth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpJ8T8JWMMw
[06:28:21] <jymmm> varesa: though I do agree that the spec SHOULD be in the page as well.
[06:28:51] <XXCoder> enleth: maybe not quite ready for cpu and such but motherboard or cards or whatever sure it can be gone
[06:28:53] <XXCoder> \*done now
[06:29:10] <XXCoder> amazing since silicon costs money to makje
[06:31:45] <jymmm> XXCoder: YAY, I'm always wanting to solder a wire to glass <rolls eyes>
[06:32:05] <XXCoder> jymmm: yeah doubt it will be common home hobbyist need.
[06:32:30] <jymmm> XXCoder: ANY need
[06:32:47] <jymmm> XXCoder: wood welding https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0k04hjdYuQ
[06:32:57] <XXCoder> already seen that
[06:34:08] <XXCoder> that probably will evenually replace nails, but then maybe not as it needs powerful machine to do it.
[06:34:12] <XXCoder> hard to predict
[06:38:14] <jymmm> Wel, I can see being used for wood joining, like trusses/beams/etc
[06:38:19] <XXCoder> yeah
[06:38:29] <XXCoder> great for cheap fruture building
[06:38:32] <jymmm> Would like to see/test the strength though
[06:38:34] <XXCoder> yet very rigid
[06:38:49] <XXCoder> cant spell that word
[06:38:56] <XXCoder> couch and stuff
[06:39:01] <jymmm> lol
[06:39:18] <jymmm> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIZhDoNOeJk
[06:39:28] <jymmm> drill press friction welding - sorta
[06:39:37] <XXCoder> looking
[06:40:28] <XXCoder> interesting
[06:40:49] <XXCoder> guy has pretty nice wooden vise
[06:41:51] <jymmm> Slow motion linear friction welding of Titanium - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umEuqbgVOR8
[06:42:23] <XXCoder> I guess that experment is a failyre
[06:42:30] <XXCoder> drill press welding
[06:42:36] <jymmm> interesting to see the initial "hot spots", then continue till the whole surface is at a certain temp
[06:43:04] <jymmm> XXCoder: Well, he was using disimular metals, might be fine if like metals
[06:43:24] <jymmm> shouldn't be welding zinc anyway
[06:43:32] <jymmm> or galvanixed
[06:43:42] <XXCoder> there is other method of welding that works for any metal on any metal. just clamp em together and leave it in vacuum for some number of years
[06:43:58] <XXCoder> evenually atomic migrations will "weld" em together.,
[06:44:05] <XXCoder> only one slight issue. YEARS.
[06:44:07] <jymmm> then how do I keep the floors clean?
[06:44:18] <XXCoder> looking at Ti one
[06:45:03] <jymmm> If you clamped two 1/8" steel bars to gether, THEN did the friction thing in the drill press, it just might work.
[06:47:09] <archivist> that wood "weld" failed to show strength of joint
[06:47:28] <XXCoder> archivist: yeah and its only one of very few examples. no tests no nothing anywhere
[06:48:36] <archivist> one of those experiments with no sensible application, like a lot of phd research :)
[06:49:25] <XXCoder> archivist: it was pure accient
[06:49:31] <XXCoder> they was testing metals and stuff
[06:49:36] <XXCoder> wood was backing to metals
[06:49:46] <XXCoder> then one day they forgot any metal and discovered this.
[06:50:33] <archivist> I discovered stubbing my toe hurts...now to monetise it :)
[06:50:41] <XXCoder> dont knock it
[06:50:57] <XXCoder> vulcuized rubber and some types of plastic was an accient discovery
[07:15:13] <jymmm> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=nFwGZhec3AI#t=423
[12:07:25] <malcom2073_> Woo for machining! https://scontent.fphl2-2.fna.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13603473_1319021724778872_686154751457897013_o.jpg
[12:07:32] <malcom2073_> Making more (wood) chips
[12:10:03] <renesis> boba drink sign?
[12:10:23] <renesis> wouldnt mind thai tea boba
[12:15:36] <BeachBumPete> I kinda like making wood stuff on the CNC somehow it feels simpler I suppose
[12:16:33] <renesis> its pretty easy on tools and the machine
[12:16:59] <renesis> tho i guess there are hard bits inside wood that gets things hot so itll dull tools over time
[12:17:18] <renesis> way more fun way less thinking than steel tho
[12:28:25] <Loetmichel> malcom2073_: i made some letters for a friend once
[12:31:41] <malcom2073_> renesis: got a buddy whos nickname is Boba, since his name is Bob Anderson
[12:32:46] <malcom2073_> I need to do some reorganizing. I stepped on the cable running power to my linuxcnc machine. Time to restart with a new 2x4 heh
[12:33:26] <Tom_itx> cnc's are quite repeatable
[12:33:34] <Tom_itx> you should be able to rerun what you have
[12:34:23] <malcom2073_> stepper machine, linuxcnc loses touch-offif you don't shut it down right
[12:34:30] <malcom2073_> at least, the 6 year old version I'm running does
[12:34:35] <malcom2073_> and*
[12:35:25] <malcom2073_> I also eyeballed the origonal touchoff, since it's wood and I didn't care much
[12:35:34] <malcom2073_> And don't have endstops for repeatable homing :-P
[12:35:37] <malcom2073_> Lots of excuses
[12:36:03] * Tom_itx knocks malcom2073_ with another 2 x 4
[12:36:39] <Tom_itx> you gonna run outta wall studs soon
[12:36:47] <archivist> is that a clue by 4 :)
[12:36:48] <malcom2073_> Nah, I got like 80 or so
[12:37:08] <Tom_itx> leave the corners in for last
[12:37:15] <Tom_itx> plan a good escape route
[12:38:03] <Loetmichel> meh. cant find the pic... if i only knew how i named it...
[12:47:11] <malcom2073_> renesis:
[12:47:19] <malcom2073_> Loetmichel: rather, is it "you're doing it wrong" ?
[12:53:18] <Loetmichel> rather: if you cant remember the name its hard to find a specific pic in a gallery of 16345 pics
[12:54:09] <malcom2073_> Ah no, I meant is that the name of the picture, in reference to me doing things the wrong way
[12:54:34] <Loetmichel> did you?
[12:54:39] <malcom2073_> Apparently
[12:54:41] <Loetmichel> the result is what counts
[12:54:49] <Loetmichel> if thats ok, why bother with failures?
[12:54:59] <Loetmichel> they only make you better on the second try ;)
[12:55:07] <malcom2073_> Eh I should learn a thing or two from the failures, at least to cover material cost
[12:55:17] <malcom2073_> I need to figure out how to recover from things like a power loss heh
[12:55:34] <Loetmichel> add reference switches
[12:55:42] <Loetmichel> easy remedied ;)
[12:56:13] <malcom2073_> The machine even has them, they're just not wired up
[12:56:34] <archivist> do it with pointers and dereference
[12:56:42] * archivist ducks
[12:57:02] <malcom2073_> archivist: Got any pointers? :-P
[12:57:29] <archivist> over there ------------>
[12:58:12] <malcom2073_> https://xkcd.com/138/
[13:00:06] <Loetmichel> *GOT IT* http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=5439&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[13:00:46] <malcom2073_> Haha, now that is a hell of a letter
[13:00:54] <malcom2073_> Oh, that's a bunch stacked on top of each other?
[13:00:55] <malcom2073_> :-P
[13:01:01] <malcom2073_> Very cool though
[13:01:07] <Loetmichel> it is
[13:01:28] <Loetmichel> 10 letters stacked
[13:01:30] <malcom2073_> I'm doing simple cheap 2x4 wood name plates for a couple of guys at work for free, since I made my own and they liked them
[13:02:41] <Loetmichel> and that being beechwood it took quite a toll on the only 6mm TC bit i had...
[13:03:04] <Loetmichel> not as much as milling those trophy stands out of slate did tho
[13:03:29] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13179&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[13:03:36] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13188&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[13:04:23] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13206&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- left is how the mill bit looked after ONE of them
[13:04:32] <Loetmichel> and yes, thats tungsten carbide ;)
[13:04:39] <Loetmichel> ahem, RIGHT is the worn one ;)
[13:06:56] <malcom2073_> Hah nice
[13:09:36] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13194&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[13:10:17] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13209&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- settled in doing the other ~20 in marine plywood after that fürst one in slate... ;)
[13:10:23] <Loetmichel> first
[13:12:29] <Loetmichel> the slate itself is pretty easy on the TC tools. the inclusions of quartz in the slate didnt do so well tho
[13:25:22] <[cube]> ever tried a diamond burr bit?
[13:25:41] <[cube]> curious how that would behave on granite
[13:25:54] <[cube]> (going very slow)
[13:35:16] <Loetmichel> [cube]; could work
[13:35:35] <Loetmichel> but i am too cheap to buy solid diamond tools ;)
[13:42:36] <zeeshan|2> :]
[14:18:39] <RootB> Good morning linuxCNC
[14:27:29] <t12> found an odd lufkin indicator today
[14:27:39] <t12> http://imgur.com/a/B0ESk
[14:27:49] <t12> and anyone know what the two spring things would be used for? looks shop built
[14:31:34] <KreAture_> cool
[14:31:43] <KreAture_> augers ?
[14:32:01] <t12> no idea
[14:32:27] <KreAture_> http://kreature.org/projects/cnc/caps/DSC_1518.JPG
[14:32:38] <KreAture_> no more nasty super cutty surfaces :)
[14:32:41] <t12> fleamarket was good today
[14:32:45] <KreAture_> all nice covers
[14:32:50] <t12> got 2 kennedy boxes
[14:32:54] <t12> nice! wrists will be happy
[14:33:27] <KreAture_> yeh I fitted one cap and checked it was nice and snug, and effing cut my finger on the parts I hadn't capped yet
[14:33:42] <KreAture_> those alu profiles cut at a 57 deg ange is dangerous
[14:33:44] <KreAture_> :)
[14:35:04] <renesis> malcom2073_: heh @ boba nickname
[15:50:49] <Sync> t12: that's the very old lever style
[16:04:47] <yasnak> getting real tired of this black lives matter bullshit
[16:05:23] <renesis> in this channel?
[16:05:25] <renesis> really?
[16:05:28] <yasnak> no
[16:05:29] <yasnak> sorry
[16:05:55] <yasnak> here, went home to take a quick lunch/dinner break...had to loop out to highway as they were "marching"
[16:06:15] <t12> kinda like when you go to get a quick lunch or dinner
[16:06:17] <yasnak> went from 10 min drive to an hour. heh
[16:06:19] <t12> and get pulled over and shot
[16:06:21] <t12> so ANNOYING
[16:06:24] <renesis> ikr
[16:06:33] <yasnak> let me know when that happens
[16:06:39] <t12> ...
[16:06:40] <renesis> all the time
[16:07:16] <t12> yeah protest tactics are generally annoying
[16:07:20] <yasnak> i'll be waiting to hear back on your police shooting incident
[16:07:21] <t12> the complaint is real
[16:07:22] <yasnak> until then
[16:07:27] <renesis> so what i meant was, are you really going to bring up that topic, in this channel?
[16:07:31] <t12> chilling out and being cool doesnt help either
[16:08:04] <renesis> no one protests anymore
[16:08:09] <yasnak> sure, why not? just wait until it begins cutting into your morning travel ;)
[16:08:18] <t12> last effective US protests were the WTO/seattle ones
[16:08:20] <renesis> protests which one the civil rights movement would be stomped out as domestic terrorism
[16:08:30] <t12> after that the new protest movement kinda failed
[16:08:58] <yasnak> i wonder why
[16:09:01] <yasnak> hmmm
[16:09:12] <renesis> i said one
[16:09:18] <t12> protest movements tend to be overrun with egotistical leaders + cointel
[16:09:20] <yasnak> take all good ideas for tactics to win public support...burn them
[16:09:24] <t12> very quickly
[16:10:08] <renesis> yeah last protest thing i went to, just felt like dudes trying to get facebook hits or something
[16:10:16] <yasnak> uh
[16:10:19] <yasnak> thats all it is
[16:10:32] <renesis> like they were happier about playing the role than being part of the movement
[16:10:34] <t12> most protest participants are young
[16:10:36] <yasnak> something like those idiots that make grandmas like and say amen on everything the post
[16:10:39] <t12> most young people care about their social status alot
[16:10:40] <yasnak> its like a grandma botnet
[16:10:44] <t12> facebook is where that happens now
[16:10:49] <renesis> not always, and social media is becoming the dominant form of communication
[16:11:07] <renesis> politicians and news distributors use twitter, its established
[16:11:33] <t12> i think its more that twitter is where media people hang out
[16:11:49] <t12> so theres a weird exposure bias vs actual use
[16:12:28] <yasnak> i have neither
[16:12:59] <renesis> in any case if you dont want violent protests, and most people dont, then the alternative is extremely disruptive protests
[16:20:03] <yasnak> cool, i was wondering what i'd end up doing with my v-plow from up north in florida
[16:32:33] <Polymorphism> where is the best place to find inexpensive stock
[16:33:22] <Polymorphism> http://www.ebay.com/itm/250-1-4-Mill-Finish-Aluminum-Sheet-Plate-6061-12-x-12-/271930971322
[16:36:26] <t12> scrapyard
[16:40:39] <Duc_mobile> anyone have experience with selling large items on ebay that you list as local pickup only
[16:44:42] <Tom_itx> my local scrap yard
[16:45:06] <SpeedEvil> Duc_mobile: yes
[16:46:19] <Duc_mobile> Speedevil: I have a offer in for my router table. The add list for local pickup only. Not sure if his offer is asking for it to be ship to CA
[16:46:29] <Duc_mobile> snipping a picture now of the offer
[16:46:57] <SpeedEvil> Duc_mobile: so contact him
[16:47:48] <Duc_mobile> http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd465/shefron/sale/offer_zpstbk7oarr.jpg
[16:48:07] <Duc_mobile> the offer and the ad http://www.ebay.com/itm/272295766213
[16:49:45] <Deejay> gn8
[16:57:53] <Duc_mobile> SpeedEvil: sent the person a email and lets see what happens
[16:59:23] <JT-Shop> looks like the spent more money on advertising than on anything else... is it servo?
[17:01:08] <JT-Shop> almost done http://gnipsel.com/images/blast-cabinet/Blast%20Cabinet%2044.JPG
[17:01:52] <Tom_itx> gettin there
[17:01:54] <ai6ci> well since mach3 is being a pita im going to give linuxcnc a shot. I can't get my digitize level probe to work which is a same because i got everything else tuned in so well.
[17:03:08] <ai6ci> does linux cnc have support for USB cnc controllers? this one was specifically marked as for mach3.
[17:03:30] <Tom_itx> no
[17:03:55] <ai6ci> seriously? thats a bummer then.
[17:04:19] <Tom_itx> usb isn't realtimeable
[17:04:34] <ai6ci> the controller usually handles that part of it.
[17:04:57] <JT-Shop> those are a mark workaround
[17:05:03] <CaptHindsight> no USB, no way dude, that's only for poser machines
[17:05:19] <ai6ci> Poser machines. Got it. Its what I got man.
[17:05:28] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Colombo-CNC-Router-Spindle/141640807519 $300 or best
[17:06:28] <CaptHindsight> USB has way too much jitter
[17:06:46] <ai6ci> Yea I get that USB has issues. What I have is a USB controller.
[17:07:15] <ai6ci> So while it may be a POS, its what I got, and it sounds like linuxcnc wont even attempt to interface with it then?
[17:07:18] <ai6ci> Yes?
[17:07:25] <CaptHindsight> man you gotta change that to LPT or use an FPGA
[17:07:50] <CaptHindsight> are you using steppers or servos?
[17:07:53] <Tom_itx> usb just can't keep up with realtime
[17:07:57] <ai6ci> steppers.
[17:08:16] <JT-Shop> it's not that LinuxCNC won't attempt to interface, LinuxCNC is not designed to use USB work arounds
[17:08:21] <Tom_itx> you could interface the stepper drivers to a parallel port
[17:08:28] <CaptHindsight> you can control steppers with a LPT port
[17:08:38] <CaptHindsight> like Tom_itx said
[17:08:43] <CaptHindsight> fer sure it works
[17:08:44] <ai6ci> I know what CAN be done.
[17:08:46] <JT-Shop> like Tom_itx said
[17:08:48] <ai6ci> I want to mill something today.
[17:09:03] <CaptHindsight> do yah have an LPT port?
[17:09:09] <Tom_itx> not gonna happen today
[17:09:10] <ai6ci> No.
[17:09:19] <CaptHindsight> what a bummer
[17:09:22] <ai6ci> Ok I'll just got back to mach3 then.
[17:09:28] <ai6ci> Simple solution.
[17:09:58] <malcom2073_> ai6ci: Yes, you are going to need different hardware to use linuxcnc than mach3. Linuxcnc won't interface (afaik) with any of the mach3/4 USB solutions
[17:10:12] <malcom2073_> Simplest thing is to find a used old computer with a parallel port
[17:10:15] <ai6ci> What controller is recommended? I have a 4 axis.
[17:10:23] <malcom2073_> I recommend linuxcnc, of course :)
[17:10:35] <ai6ci> For the hardware portion.
[17:10:55] <malcom2073_> All you need is a breakout board to go to your stepper drivers
[17:10:57] <Tom_itx> ultimately you would get some mesa cards to replace the usb solution
[17:11:00] <ai6ci> My current one does all the spindle control and stuff.
[17:11:07] <Tom_itx> however a parallel port would drive your steppers
[17:11:20] <JT-Shop> ai6ci: the best you can get is http://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=69&product_id=78
[17:11:41] <JT-Shop> lots of I/O, spindle and 5 axis
[17:11:55] <JT-Shop> and mpg input and encoder input for spindle
[17:12:06] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, do you have any ethernet solutions yet?
[17:12:11] <Tom_itx> or are they stable enough
[17:13:13] <JT-Shop> yes, I have 3 Ethernet solutions and yes they are stable
[17:13:32] <Tom_itx> i haven't been following it that closely
[17:13:57] <malcom2073_> I've seen breakout boards that handle spindle PWM and the like out there, but that's all you need, assuming a lot of things you haven't stated
[17:14:42] <malcom2073_> You could also get a parallel port PCI card for your computer rather than getting another computer, assuming it would do ok in the latency tests
[17:16:29] <XXCoder> also get a okay videocard if youre currently using built-in and disable onboard
[17:16:34] <Tom_itx> he said he has no parallel port
[17:16:39] <XXCoder> that'll help on latency too
[17:16:56] <XXCoder> Tom_itx: thats why malcom2073_ recommanded buying one
[17:17:00] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: that only applied in the olden days
[17:17:19] <CaptHindsight> no longer true for the past 10 years or so
[17:17:26] <XXCoder> oh really. hm ok
[17:17:44] <JT-Shop> all my machines use onboard video with no problems
[17:18:14] <CaptHindsight> we have been using AMD integrated graphics for the past 10 years with latencies rarely >20uS
[17:18:36] <Frank_12> hi ppl
[17:20:47] <XXCoder> hey
[17:22:00] <enleth> XXCoder: yeah, modern integrated graphics are usually well-behaved
[17:22:36] <XXCoder> thanks
[17:23:55] <Frank_12> by any chance has anyone done this circuit for wiring the servos and contactors, so that you can start servos with a momentary switch??? http://imgur.com/mChvOi5
[17:26:16] <Frank_12> i've seen those on pretty much any yaswaka/panasonic servo wiring scheme
[17:28:58] <JT-Shop> looks pretty normal to me
[17:31:24] <CaptHindsight> Frank_12: what do you mean by "start servos"?
[17:31:35] <Frank_12> turn on the drivers
[17:32:11] <CaptHindsight> connect power to the drivers maybe, but it's not a complete drawing
[17:34:52] <Frank_12> or you just use a 24v coil contactor, and the estop opens the circuit
[17:37:17] <enleth> Frank_12: my bridgeport has such a circuit, https://hackerspace.pl/~enleth/schematic-marked.pdf - take a look at the 6FC relay
[17:37:21] <enleth> (marked in yellow)
[17:38:06] <enleth> its coil is routed through one of its own contacts in parallel with the pushbutton
[17:38:37] <enleth> while the e-stop cuts power to the whole relay section
[17:39:12] <Duc_mobile> Frank_12: what type of servos are you looking to wire in
[17:39:26] <enleth> then all servo drive power (top center) is routed through 6FC as well
[17:39:35] <Frank_12> wow thanks, i will give them a nice look..
[17:39:49] <Duc_mobile> that looks like the main contactors for just supplying power not turning them on
[17:39:51] <Frank_12> they are 220v ac single phase
[17:40:03] <Duc_mobile> should be a drive on input to the unit
[17:40:33] <CaptHindsight> what does Techno/Isel sell a router that size for new?
[17:40:33] <enleth> Duc_mobile: < Frank_12> turn on the drivers
[17:41:03] <enleth> Duc_mobile: I assumed he meant power them up, not necessarily have the motors moving immediately
[17:41:49] <enleth> you shouldn't really have the servo power enable and program start under the same button unless you're wiring some chinese pipsqueak of a mill
[17:42:14] <Duc_mobile> CaptHindsight: Not really sure but a used one ffrom them is about 14500
[17:42:28] <enleth> and you should use a monostable relay for servo power
[17:42:55] <Frank_12> i feel i talk a different language right now
[17:42:55] <Duc_mobile> enleth: thats what I was thinking. I have a main contactor for the power panel that supplies to the drives then a servo enable from the mesa card.
[17:43:32] <Duc_mobile> what are you looking to do Frank_12
[17:44:26] <Frank_12> this is how i was going to do it so far: main contactor gives power to control power supply, (says specs sheet) and then a second contactor gives power to the main power supply of the servo drive, the last contactor is the one that gives power to the motors,
[17:44:36] <Frank_12> and i will have the enable input to linuxcnc
[17:45:12] <enleth> Frank_12: so you're going to put contactors between the servo drives and the servos in addition to using them on servo drive power input?
[17:45:36] <Frank_12> nonono, betwen drivers and servomotor nothing
[17:45:54] <enleth> so what would the last contactor do?
[17:45:57] <Duc_mobile> I think I know where the confusion is coming from. There is two different power circuit somewhat going to a servo drive. The power to the motor circuit and the power to the controling circuit
[17:46:06] <Frank_12> the servodriver needs 2 sources of 220v single phase, for control power and main power supply, thats the 2 contatcts
[17:46:12] <enleth> ah, ok
[17:46:23] <Frank_12> exactly
[17:46:32] <enleth> in this case I think you can drop the contactor on the servo drive control supply
[17:46:33] <Duc_mobile> but there is still the wires from the drive to the motors that shouldnt be controlled by a contactor
[17:46:51] <Frank_12> the drivers (spec sheet) asks to give power first to the control power supply, then (2sec later) to the main power supply
[17:46:54] <enleth> if it can't move the motor with no second power connection, there's no point in cutting off the first
[17:47:15] <Frank_12> they arent duc
[17:47:46] <Frank_12> the schematic only shows servodriver
[17:47:50] <Duc_mobile> you can use one contactor. contactor--> power distrubiton--> to drives
[17:49:03] <Frank_12> but then wouldnt the 2 circuits of the servodriver be connected at the same time?
[17:49:08] <enleth> Frank_12: if you want to be super sure about this requirement, run the motor power contactor's coil through an output on the mesa card that would only start sinking current after the control boots up
[17:49:18] <enleth> that will ensure a 2 second delay (much longer actually)
[17:49:22] <Duc_mobile> never had problems with both of my circuits receiving power at same time
[17:49:31] <enleth> s/sinking/sourcing/
[17:50:01] <enleth> (or through a smaller relay if mesa won't handle the contactor directly)
[17:50:30] <enleth> that way the drvie's control section will be powered right away, but enabling motor power will need linuxcnc's confirmation that it's ready as well as a button press
[17:50:58] <Frank_12> i was thinkng of powering up the pc and linuxcnc and then powering up the driver, is that wrong?
[17:51:09] <Frank_12> and after that, enabling the servodriver
[17:51:14] <enleth> it's probably unnecessary
[17:51:37] <enleth> if the power section of the servo drive is down't it won't do anything dangerous anyway
[17:51:41] <ai6ci> So it looks like my axis are all 4 pin din. My spindle is a 3pin din. I got a computer in my shop that has a parallel port. Guess its the new CNC computer.
[17:52:20] <Duc_mobile> mesa wont send a enable to the drives till linuxcnc fully boots and you enable the system
[17:52:26] <enleth> Frank_12: I mean, what exactly do you achieve by powering up the control part of the drives separately?
[17:52:30] <Tom_itx> ai6ci, run a latency test on it
[17:52:52] <Frank_12> what the manual says, hehe
[17:52:55] <ai6ci> Why would that fail?
[17:53:40] <Frank_12> im checking the manuals to try found something
[17:54:02] <enleth> Frank_12: but it doesn't say to power up the control side after powering up the machine control, does it? as far as I understood, it just says to power up the motor side with a delay?
[17:54:02] <CaptHindsight> ai6ci: BIOS not turning off power management, speed stepping not off, thermal management not off, SMI issues etc etc
[17:55:25] <ai6ci> yea id like to get a mesaus kit, but its not in a case or anything, and its lacking the connectors for my cables.
[17:56:17] <CaptHindsight> LPT port just needs BOB (break out board)
[17:58:01] <CaptHindsight> ~$20 BOB http://i.imgur.com/WbAhjgr.jpg
[17:58:04] <ai6ci> Yea this is going to be a ton of hours and dicking around with stuff isnt it? My current hardware, while it is USB, I just plug in the 3 pin spindle wire, and the 4 pin axis cables, and then I don't have to worry about powering the spindle, or the motors.
[17:58:35] <CaptHindsight> depends on who does the wiring
[17:58:56] <ai6ci> yea ill have to figure out how much power the spindle needs.
[17:59:23] <ai6ci> says 110v
[18:01:01] <CaptHindsight> what type of spindle motor?
[18:01:27] <ai6ci> its water cooled, 1.5kw 24k rpm
[18:01:51] <enleth> CaptHindsight: heh, exactly what I need right now for ORAC, thanks
[18:03:10] <CaptHindsight> http://imgur.com/QqOa0rr heh Boomba
[18:04:08] <Frank_12> enleth: yes you are correct, excuse me i was reading the tech spec sheet
[18:04:25] * JT-Shop goes to fire up the barbie and quit working for the week... Monday comes quick enough
[18:05:58] <enleth> Frank_12: so just hardwire the power to all control parts and put a contactor on the power part supply wires
[18:06:27] <ai6ci> So do I need a VFD and a LPT thing or?
[18:07:31] <CaptHindsight> ai6ci: don't you have a VFD now?
[18:08:00] <ai6ci> Its built into the box that has the usb controller.
[18:08:12] <ai6ci> I plug a usb cable in, but the box does all the real timie stuff.
[18:08:47] <ai6ci> Ideally I'd get something thats like this, but with a lpt port on the back
[18:09:01] <CaptHindsight> unless it has 0-10V in to control the VFD you'll also need a VFD
[18:09:41] <CaptHindsight> looks like they wrapped your hardware around Mach and USB
[18:09:55] <enleth> unless the VFD happens to be a separate part inside and can be pulled out
[18:10:03] <enleth> did you take a look in the box?
[18:10:24] <ai6ci> no i wasnt interested in rebuilding it. I just wanted to mill some stuff this weekend.
[18:10:43] <enleth> well, see if there's a standalone VFD hidden inside
[18:11:32] <CaptHindsight> have any pics of the inside of the control box?
[18:12:12] <Frank_12> enleth: yeah, maybe ill just do that, and i have the srv-on input to the drive that gives power to the motors
[18:14:09] <Frank_12> i was thinking of putting 2 servos on 1 contactor and the other 2 on another contactor, because im bringing a 3 phase line to the enclosure, and it would balance the load a little bit better
[18:14:29] <ai6ci> alright im in it
[18:14:44] <ai6ci> its got 4 yoocnc stepper motor drivers "YOC335"
[18:15:11] <JT-Shop> 3 phase is balanced
[18:15:17] <ai6ci> its got what looks like a nowforever VFD
[18:15:24] <JT-Shop> one contactor for all drives is fine
[18:15:27] <ai6ci> and a 110v supply.
[18:15:56] <KreAture_> anyone used this stuff for a dustskirt ? http://www.ebay.com/itm/122032498873
[18:16:13] <ai6ci> it also looks like it has a controller board for the usb portion, also labeled yoocnc
[18:16:22] <ai6ci> V3.5
[18:17:20] <enleth> ai6ci: those are quite usable VFDs, so you can reuse it
[18:17:52] <Frank_12> JT-Shop: but im taking single phase from the 3 phase line, thats 1 cable of the 3phase for the 4 drivers
[18:18:10] <enleth> ai6ci: so it looks like you need to replace the USB board with an LPT BOB like the one CaptHindsight linked to
[18:18:23] <enleth> ai6ci: and you're all set, as far as hardware goes
[18:19:06] <ai6ci> so the stepper drivers can stay too?
[18:19:22] <JT-Shop> ah 3 phase to single yes
[18:19:30] <ai6ci> cause it looks like I could just swap out the wires from the usb board
[18:19:34] <enleth> ai6ci: most likely, yes
[18:20:01] <enleth> Frank_12: someone here posted a yt video of a brush skirt they made that looked similar, maybe a bit beefier brush
[18:21:11] <ai6ci> where can I find one of these break out boards for purchase that might be recommended?
[18:21:21] <Frank_12> well, i dont know if that was meant to me, but soon or late ill have to make my own.. hehehe
[18:21:33] <JT-Shop> for a cheap one cnc4pc has the C1
[18:22:49] <ai6ci> mines using like 4 pin molex type headers already, any that already have something like that?
[18:23:00] <JT-Shop> Frank_12: I have to make my own 3 phase lol
[18:24:18] <andypugh> ai6ci: No matter what breakout board you get, you are still using the parallel port. Have you considered the more expensive alternatives?
[18:24:23] * JT-Shop goes to check the barbie
[18:24:23] <Frank_12> painfull... the electric/electronic part of building a cnc router is burning my brain. i was so happy just building and grinding steel... heh
[18:24:28] <ai6ci> andypugh, like what?
[18:24:39] <Frank_12> mesa
[18:24:43] <Frank_12> ;)
[18:24:52] <ai6ci> whats it do different
[18:24:52] <JT-Shop> http://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=69&product_id=78
[18:25:31] <JT-Shop> 5 Axis step & direction
[18:25:31] <JT-Shop> 32 isolated inputs and 16 isolated outputs
[18:25:31] <JT-Shop> 1 spindle output control with high speed encoder input
[18:25:46] <Frank_12> thats what i got at least,
[18:26:12] <ai6ci> Ok? its all the same to me as long as it works and I can throw it into my existing case kind of nice.
[18:26:14] * JT-Shop hides almost
[18:26:20] <Frank_12> lol
[18:26:44] <andypugh> it’s an FPGA on a PCI card that creates step pulses at MHz resolution. And it has a _lot_ more IO than the parallel port. It also has built-in connections for a spindle VFD _and_ a spindle encoder. (and the encoder can run at MHz too)
[18:27:06] <JT-Shop> and a MPG input...
[18:27:18] <CaptHindsight> for $1,000,000 I'll come over and setup your system with all new hardware
[18:27:23] <andypugh> Two MPGs actually :-)
[18:27:25] <Frank_12> and people that can help you wire it,
[18:27:32] <Frank_12> cuz, im a noob too u know..
[18:27:45] <Frank_12> or maybe ur not, i dont know
[18:28:00] <CaptHindsight> give you a 10 year warranty as well
[18:28:10] <Frank_12> really?
[18:28:12] <andypugh> ai6ci: You may be seeing a tendency towards feature-creep :-)
[18:29:11] <ai6ci> andypugh, yea all of this is super overkill. I come in with an autolevel problem and leave with frustration, no work done, and really expensive FPGA riser card solutions that are going to be two-four weeks out of getting my machine running with little to show for it.
[18:30:43] <ai6ci> the 7i76 or 5i25, not sure which card is which, I got 24v out of my current setup i can plug it into, will that be fine or?
[18:31:28] <andypugh> I can see the point in the super-low-cost triple/quad breakouts with built-in stepper drivers like: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/400699722036 but some of the higher-end break-out board aimed at Mach3 get close to the price of a Mesa or Pico board, and the FPGA boards are a whole different class of thing.
[18:32:33] <ai6ci> so my current controller looks like it has all the yoocnc drivers, usb controller, a forever vfd, ideally I can just take out the usb card, throw in a BOB and call it a day.
[18:33:06] <andypugh> ai6ci: The 5i25 is the PCI board, the 7i76 is the “breakout” But it’s a slightly clever breakout as the 32 + 16 IO pins are serially addressed.
[18:33:08] <ai6ci> I take it the FPGA is doing a bunch of the work the stepper drivers are doing with PWM and stuff
[18:33:38] <XXCoder> andypugh: it works well enough
[18:33:48] <andypugh> yes, the FPGA effectively runs the base-thread functions.
[18:34:11] <andypugh> XXCoder: What does?
[18:34:17] <XXCoder> tb6560
[18:35:24] <andypugh> Aye, they work fine, but they break easily. They seem very sensitive to faults in the stepper motor wires.
[18:35:39] <XXCoder> hmm
[18:35:42] <XXCoder> how do I test for that
[18:35:59] <andypugh> (If you disconnect a motor with the drive running it pretty much will always break)
[18:36:40] <andypugh> I wouldn’t put any cheap connectors between the drives and the motors with that drive.
[18:36:51] <CaptHindsight> ok, I'll throw in a 5 day trip to Disneyland for 4, carfare included
[18:37:04] <ai6ci> ok so is there something more basic then the 7i26
[18:37:19] <ai6ci> pmdx I found, but similarly priced
[18:37:42] <ai6ci> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTAxMFgxMDEw/z/jSUAAOSwFNZWzQ1~/$_57.JPG?set_id=880000500F 6$
[18:39:39] <Polymorphism> I need to apply for guiness world record
[18:39:43] <Polymorphism> most expensive paperweight
[18:39:53] <andypugh> What do you want of the breakout board?
[18:39:57] <malcom2073_> Polymorphism: I'm beginning to think maybe outsourcing would be best for you
[18:40:14] <Polymorphism> too late for that now
[18:40:16] <CaptHindsight> $23.51 http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Axis-Cnc-Breakout-Board-For-Router-Mill-Lathe-Engraving-Machine-USB-LPT-Cable-/252440677859
[18:40:27] <malcom2073_> In our defense, we did warn you :-P
[18:40:36] <CaptHindsight> rrrrrrr spare hammers
[18:40:37] <Polymorphism> the replacement ballscrew should ship tonight but still no explanation from george how to tighten up the machine without the long axis ballscrew binding
[18:41:05] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: The one I linked to was about half the price and included the stepper drivers
[18:41:14] <malcom2073_> You need to loosen everything up, let it slide back and forth, and slowly tighten things up while moving the axis to keep everything lined up
[18:41:39] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: you want I should read all your links?
[18:42:17] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: Admittedly it has one low-rating and is priced at rather less than the retail price of a single TB6560
[18:42:47] <ai6ci> I already have seperate stepper motor drivers
[18:43:41] <ai6ci> cool its already in LA too.
[18:43:44] <andypugh> And that’s actually a good thing. You have already skipped a phase in the development process
[18:44:33] <Polymorphism> malcom2073_, I'll try that soon. I'm moving the machine to my workshop this week
[18:45:26] <ai6ci> Cool. Well time to call it a day. I'll be back when it arives :)
[18:51:45] <andypugh> ai6ci: This is how my builds have gone: Cheap Chinses lathe/mill combo with parport and cheap 3-axis TB6560 board. After the second attempt to replace blown drivers, parport and separate drives with home-made breakout. Then I ran out of IO and went to a Mesa 7i43 connected on the parport. That machine is still running that way. Then I bought some servos cheap on eBay. Then a proper mill (made in the UK in the 1960s) to
[18:51:45] <andypugh> them to. But the servos had resolvers, so I made an Arduino shield for resolvers. But it was rubbish, so I wrote a driver for the Mesa 7i49 resolver interface, and that’s great. So great that I then deliberately chose to use resolvers and servos on the conversion of a proper lathe made in the UK in the 60s. And I sepent more on the custom castings for that lathe than for the entire PC, controllers, motors and ballscr
[18:51:46] <andypugh> for the Cheap Chinese Lathe/Mill conversion.
[18:53:20] <andypugh> I think my point is that you _can_ do this very cheaply, but you tend to drift slowly towards doing it well instead.
[18:54:06] <CaptHindsight> i just avoid any TB6xxx driver boards and never have a nay problems
[18:54:15] <andypugh> And on that note, ’tis time to log off.
[18:55:19] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: whats good stand in replacement to tb6560 and its like?
[18:55:23] <XXCoder> no other changes
[18:57:15] <CaptHindsight> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/kl-stepper-drivers
[18:58:00] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: dont I still need controller with those?
[18:58:40] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: step and dir inputs, stepper outputs
[18:59:00] <XXCoder> so I still use tb6560 with it?
[18:59:09] <CaptHindsight> those are drivers, the controller is a Linuxcnc PC
[18:59:18] <CaptHindsight> NO
[18:59:31] <CaptHindsight> they replace the tb6xxx
[18:59:31] <XXCoder> hmm got wiring example? not too sure how it would work
[19:00:18] <CaptHindsight> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2014/09/ALLDriver.pdf
[19:00:55] <XXCoder> ah so I just need parallel port breakout board
[19:01:11] <XXCoder> an my computer directly controls stepper motor drivers
[19:01:43] <CaptHindsight> yes
[19:02:14] <XXCoder> pul+ and dir+ is wired together
[19:02:17] <XXCoder> interesting
[19:02:53] <t12> i finally scored an ancient 400hz inverter
[19:02:58] <t12> to run these aircraft gyros
[19:03:37] <t12> from some aircraft radio
[19:04:05] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: I guess COM is common ground
[19:04:24] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: yes, since that supplies the power to the optos
[19:04:51] <CaptHindsight> and the Pul- and Dir- are active Low
[19:05:21] <XXCoder> few ports is left still aviliable. nice
[19:06:51] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: example of such? http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Axis-CNC-Router-DIY-Kit-5-Axis-Breakout-Board-TB6600HG-Stepper-Motor-Driver-5A-/401140733636
[19:07:09] <XXCoder> though its TB also
[19:07:10] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: jumpers control what is on the COM
[19:07:20] <CaptHindsight> it can be Ground or 5V
[19:07:40] <CaptHindsight> http://cnc4pc.com/Tech_Docs/C10R10_USER_MANUAL_V2.pdf
[19:08:10] <CaptHindsight> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/breakout-boards/c10-bidirectional-breakout
[19:08:39] <XXCoder> 6 axis. can use pins for something else besides axisa?
[19:09:48] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: yes, but since you are unclear about the COM pins this might be above your pay grade to do so
[19:10:13] <XXCoder> I'm no electrics engineer
[19:10:39] <XXCoder> though my priority is finishing the adoptor plates so I can use real spindle
[19:13:34] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: right now its cut down to size, just need holes lol
[19:18:39] <CaptHindsight> http://jokes.cc.com/funny-doctor/fj9nmq/the-scientist-and-the-frog
[19:19:40] <XXCoder> lol
[19:20:13] <CaptHindsight> be careful where you get your advice
[19:21:16] <ai6ci> andypugh I'll do it well if its required, but I have all the componenets and 30$ more i can figure out if I need to go mesa or not.
[19:21:43] <CaptHindsight> he's logged off
[19:21:46] <ai6ci> if and when I want to go above isolation milling of copper boards ofcourse.
[19:22:31] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: theorically I could just buy parallel port breakout and just use motor drivers and configure linuxcnc?
[19:22:50] <XXCoder> would it also run better than tb6***?
[19:23:03] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: plus wiring, power supplies etc
[19:23:10] <XXCoder> indeed
[19:23:28] <ai6ci> I could just make my traces wider and not worry about needing to auto level :)
[19:24:17] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: you'll have to ask _methods I'm watch pole vaulting right now
[19:24:25] <CaptHindsight> watch/watching
[19:24:41] <XXCoder> olymics?
[19:34:39] <CaptHindsight> USA finals
[19:35:21] <XXCoder> ahh ok
[23:22:22] <Duc> zlog