#linuxcnc | Logs for 2016-07-09

[00:41:02] <enleth> if you ever need to shorten some telescoping drawer slides by a few cm - it can be done with an angle grinder, a dremel and a handheld sheet metal nibbler
[00:42:28] <enleth> they look almost like new. if you squint and look kind of sideways.
[02:41:44] <XXCoder> no bad https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL9d6LkFNP1fGjdW2RxqSHdSO9D1FEl36c&v=zPGZg45dGXA
[02:47:00] <enleth> http://i.imgur.com/vcuEN6t.jpg - slides installed, now I have to make the electrcal base plate (leaning against the right side of the table) 3cm narrower to fit between the slides
[02:48:10] <enleth> the idea is that everything inside the electrical compartment will just slide completely out of the machine for prototyping and later maintenance
[02:48:59] <XXCoder> nice
[02:49:38] <enleth> fortunately, all wiring enters the compartment in a single spot and it's already long enough to allow the whole thing to slide out the front
[02:51:28] <enleth> the only piece I'll have to fiddle with a bit more is the cassette player, the back of which would now obstruct one of the slides
[02:51:58] <enleth> and I'll have to shift the speakers upwards a little, but that shouldn't be a problem
[02:52:19] <enleth> yeah, the cassette deck, speakers and green CRT will return
[02:55:31] <XXCoder> guys making lathe using just basic tools and casting
[03:05:03] <XXCoder> hes using lathe to finish lathe parts now
[03:13:32] <enleth> Gingery or custom?
[03:13:40] <XXCoder> homebrew
[03:20:18] <XXCoder> he does not own a mill
[03:20:24] <XXCoder> so hes doing all cast then filing
[03:34:06] <XXCoder> enleth: plan to cnc-ize your lathe?
[03:43:46] <Deejay> moin
[03:43:51] <XXCoder> hey
[04:11:00] <XXCoder> coooool https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sinQ06YzbJI
[04:11:07] <XXCoder> I wonder what it sounds like
[04:38:59] <enleth> XXCoder: well, it already is CNC, but the old controller was shit
[04:39:10] <XXCoder> ahh cool
[04:41:44] <archivist> I made a bodge board and brought the signals out of my Starturn and plug into the parallel port
[04:44:23] <archivist> the base is folded and screwed to the upper, a pain to get at 3rd pic http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=starturn
[04:45:51] <archivist> still uses the original drives
[04:46:06] <enleth> http://i.imgur.com/1hECDPz.jpg - the damn thing's too wide by 3cm now due to the rails. http://i.imgur.com/NMVXojh.jpg - apart it goes, http://i.imgur.com/4P3OaCe.jpg - and hopefully back together
[04:47:06] <enleth> as a complete coincidence, a friend just dropped by who can do TIG quite a bit better than me
[04:49:48] <XXCoder> nice
[04:50:30] <archivist> Denford like many never made access for service easy
[04:53:03] <enleth> that's an understatement
[04:53:38] <enleth> it was difficult even to gut it with no regard to reusability of most wiring
[04:54:02] <enleth> I still had to almost crawl inside to disconnect things before pulling them out
[04:54:04] <archivist> I was well pissed when after boxing it up one of the drivers died, had to get in remove, fix
[04:54:23] <enleth> I feel for the guy who assembled the damn thing
[04:54:40] <XXCoder> sometimes assemly is far easier
[04:54:50] <XXCoder> but yeah
[04:54:51] <enleth> he had to screw wires into terminals completely blind, with his hands twisted at a weird angle
[04:54:52] <archivist> easy fix though, L297/298 based drive
[04:55:13] <enleth> archivist: PKS Digiplan?
[04:55:24] <archivist> yup
[04:55:29] <enleth> same thing here
[04:55:34] <enleth> tossed that shit already
[04:55:59] <archivist> they work. just a strange 12v logic drive to them
[04:56:33] <enleth> they do, but L298 is a piece of ancient garbage
[04:57:01] <enleth> I've been building stepper drives with those bridges when I was 12 and I never really expected to see them again
[04:57:05] <enleth> yet here they are
[04:57:30] <archivist> they are driving the servos in my CMM as well :)
[04:58:09] <enleth> that doesn't have to provide any torque, though, right?
[04:58:38] <enleth> it's just a precise automated pokey stick
[05:00:32] <archivist> tiny little motors that friction grip plain round rod to pull the carriage around
[05:01:11] <archivist> similar size to ones fitted in some printers
[05:21:14] <enleth> anyway, two leadshine M860 are going to replace those
[05:22:31] <enleth> the worst offense of the original drives was low voltage
[05:23:55] <enleth> the ORAC's steppers will happily run on 80V but they only got 40V or so with those
[05:30:12] <jthornton> morning
[05:41:06] <XXCoder> hey
[05:41:25] <XXCoder> archivist enleth either of you also have mill cnc or not? curious heh
[05:55:06] <archivist> XXCoder, have you not been observant :)
[05:55:20] <XXCoder> Actually I am, just thgat my memory sucjks
[05:55:31] <XXCoder> and somehow I lost typing skills :P
[06:08:48] <enleth> XXCoder: a Bridgeport, yes
[06:08:57] <XXCoder> cool
[06:09:08] <enleth> XXCoder: still using the original Heidenhain control but it's going to be fitted with 7i77 sooner or later
[06:09:34] <enleth> although the lathe might actually get a 7i76E sooner
[06:09:52] <enleth> because the Heidenhain works and the mill is quite usable, while the lathe wasn't
[06:10:04] <XXCoder> Heidenhain control looks like slightly more modern version of "auomatic manual" bridgeport I used at old job
[06:10:30] <enleth> pretty much, it's an MDI mill, point-to-point, one axis at a time
[06:10:42] <XXCoder> one I used has few macros
[06:10:51] <XXCoder> like it can do circles and linear
[06:10:52] <enleth> same here
[06:11:03] <enleth> automated pocketing, peck drilling, holes on a circle and so on
[06:11:11] <enleth> and simple loops
[06:11:15] <XXCoder> ah yours has z too
[06:11:25] <enleth> yes, it's a rigid ram model
[06:11:27] <XXCoder> one I used has x and y alone that can be controlled.
[06:11:29] <enleth> ball screw quill
[06:11:36] <XXCoder> Z I have to manually control
[06:11:41] <enleth> completely different head design than the manual 2J2
[06:11:50] <enleth> like, not a single casting or part is even similar
[06:12:10] <XXCoder> weird, reusing makes it much cheaper
[06:12:29] <enleth> they just couldn't reuse the manual design
[06:12:46] <enleth> a 2J2 head won't fit a ballscrew quill
[06:12:57] <XXCoder> interesting
[06:13:55] <enleth> it's literally a ballscrew the size of the whole quill and some more
[06:13:59] <enleth> 10cm or something in diameter
[06:14:13] <XXCoder> that is quite large
[06:14:22] <enleth> there's a rotating ball nut around it, pressed into a pulley driven by the Z servo
[06:14:34] <enleth> let me snap a photo
[06:15:53] <archivist> does that mean errors in the balls screw directly reflected in the z axis?
[06:17:36] <enleth> http://i.imgur.com/4xMH63N.jpg
[06:17:45] <XXCoder> I'd guess so. it depends on quality of productuon of such I guess
[06:18:09] <enleth> archivist: if there are any, I guess so
[06:18:16] <XXCoder> that is as large as ones found in large cnc machines
[06:18:20] <XXCoder> if not larger
[06:18:42] <enleth> but with so much contact area, I guess this screw may be quite long-lived
[06:19:36] <enleth> one interesting feature is the jog lever on the right - it can be actually used during machining and it's the only jog lever that doesn't run the axis at full speed
[06:19:54] <enleth> there's a knob on the control for setting downwards Z jog speed
[06:20:12] <enleth> so the lever can be used like a classic quill level for drilling
[06:20:19] <XXCoder> that really is different
[06:20:31] <XXCoder> one I used was just standard manual bridgeport
[06:20:49] <enleth> obviously there's no way to make an actual quill lever with a ballscrew quill
[06:21:00] <enleth> so they did this
[06:21:38] <enleth> it works, though there's no pressure feedback that way, so I actually prefer to use the handwheel for drilling with small and/or slighly dull drills
[06:22:33] <enleth> and by no pressure feedback I actually mean that the servo is so powerful it will just obliterate a bad drill before you get a chance to notice you're pushing it into the stock while it isn't drilling
[06:24:36] <enleth> you can just barely see the handwheel knob behind the cover I'm holding open
[06:25:02] <enleth> it's coaxial with the servo (visible at top left)
[06:25:40] <enleth> so, yeah, this is a completely different design
[06:26:05] <enleth> only some varispeed parts are sort of compatible with a normal 2J@
[06:26:09] <enleth> *2J2
[06:26:38] <enleth> half pulleys for sure, maybe a couple other misc parts
[06:26:43] <enleth> and not much else
[06:27:06] <enleth> even the spindle itself is quite a bit longer
[06:28:10] <enleth> that's because the splined gear is much further up because a ballscrew housing sits between the head proper and the varispeed chassis
[06:32:51] <XXCoder> cool :)
[06:33:00] <XXCoder> I dont think I will ever get mill
[06:33:07] <XXCoder> unless its that aliexpress $100 one lol
[06:33:24] <XXCoder> its workspace is so tiny I dont know if it can be used for anything
[06:40:13] <enleth> ok, this weld is starting to be annoying: http://i.imgur.com/qFyCquy.jpg
[06:40:30] <enleth> the shorter leg pulls the whole thing into a pretzel
[06:40:45] <enleth> we cut it and welded it a second time now
[06:40:54] <archivist> did not tack first
[06:40:56] <enleth> it's not as bad as before but it still warps the plate
[06:41:21] <enleth> when I cut through the weld, the whole plate immediately flattened out
[06:41:39] <enleth> the longer weld is perfect, all edges are straight/square
[06:41:40] <XXCoder> welding, i wanna learn that evenually lol
[06:41:44] <archivist> needs tack welds to hold straight, also dont do it in one pass
[06:41:57] <XXCoder> archivist: because of heat buildup?
[06:42:34] <archivist> it is the differential cooling and shrinkage
[06:42:49] <enleth> archivist: there's going to be a gap the width of an angle grinder wheel when I cut it, should we tack across it and wait for the tacks to cool?
[06:43:14] <enleth> if that even counts as tacking when you need to close a 3mm gap
[06:43:16] <archivist> yes a few, 6 maybe
[06:44:26] <archivist> 3mm gap filling could shrink a lot, could plan to expand with hammering where needed
[06:44:26] <enleth> with a gap this wide, we need some kind of backing, I don't think there's a way around it
[06:44:33] <enleth> so we're using this piece of sheet aluminum
[06:45:01] <enleth> no idea if it affects cooling negatively somehow
[06:45:11] <archivist> it is the cooling and shrinkage, backing may not help
[06:45:14] <enleth> it's thinner than the plate being welded
[06:45:36] <enleth> it's just there for the bead to sit on something before it solidifies
[06:46:02] <archivist> tack, do short runs spread about, not all in sequence
[06:46:59] <enleth> "spread about" is a big word for a 7cm long weld
[06:47:19] <archivist> if you have oxy acet then heat and normalise/hammer where shrinkage is pulling into a dish
[06:47:35] <enleth> nope, no blowtorch of any kind
[06:47:37] <archivist> 2cm welds
[06:48:03] <archivist> so do 3 where you would have done 7cm
[06:48:46] <enleth> ok, will try
[06:48:47] <archivist> less pretty but can even out heat distortion
[06:49:21] <enleth> does bolting the plate to something rigid help? clamping didn't
[06:49:47] <archivist> but that last pic looks fixable with a little hammering
[06:50:00] <enleth> nope, the two legs are different length
[06:50:29] <archivist> that is lack of outer tacks first
[06:50:43] <enleth> when I try to straighten the whole thing, it flips the other way violently
[06:51:11] <enleth> for a lack of a better word than "flip"
[06:51:38] <enleth> outer meaning at the ends of that 7cm weld, right?
[06:51:51] <archivist> you could cheat, add angle to stiffen/keep flat
[06:52:24] <enleth> that won't help now, the length difference is just too big
[06:52:40] <enleth> ok, off to cut it again
[06:52:49] <archivist> shims to fiddle
[06:54:13] <enleth> snapped back to flat immediately
[06:54:34] <archivist> after a cut?
[06:59:55] <archivist> sometimes one springs the gap open a little knowing it will shrink
[07:00:46] <enleth> yep, after a cut
[07:04:15] <enleth> archivist: http://i.imgur.com/Uos3GU1.jpg - test fit after a cut - flat enough
[07:04:35] <archivist> takes me back a lot of years.....1972-3 ish got a job as a trainee welder, ended up machine welding sheets of aluminium for lorry tipper bodies
[07:04:59] <enleth> http://i.imgur.com/eyUXh6p.jpg - waiting to be welded
[07:05:14] <enleth> so the gap is pretty huge
[07:05:37] <enleth> and this is the very same starting point we've been at 30 minutes ago or so
[07:05:50] <XXCoder> cant use donor to full or what
[07:05:59] <XXCoder> dont know much about welding I admit
[07:06:26] <enleth> archivist: should we "tack" across it on a backing plate at the ends, then wait and start doing 2cm runs?
[07:07:01] <archivist> lot of shrinkage with a big puddle
[07:07:25] <enleth> yeah, I'm actually starting to consider ditching a weld here entirely
[07:07:32] <enleth> not sure though
[07:07:59] <archivist> so a something to stop that, 4 or more tacks, only then weld
[07:08:00] <XXCoder> archivist: is there much thing as welding in a donor metal?
[07:08:05] <XXCoder> I'm pretty sure there is
[07:08:07] <enleth> I mean, I could bolt something onto that gap, then grind the bolts flat
[07:08:11] <archivist> filler rod
[07:08:20] <XXCoder> though I assume metal alloys must be close same type
[07:08:40] <archivist> still melts and shrinks
[07:08:53] <enleth> archivist: so the cooled down tacks will actually act as struts keeping the gap from being pulled together?
[07:09:12] <archivist> it is how you hold it at the correct spacing before the welds
[07:09:26] <archivist> that is the idea
[07:10:06] <archivist> but the jacking has to make the tacks stretch during cooling
[07:10:44] <enleth> jacking?
[07:10:50] <archivist> or tack, hammer to stretch them, then stitch in small sections
[07:11:13] <enleth> you mean hammer while it's still hot?
[07:11:19] <archivist> a taper of steel to hold the sheets apart
[07:11:26] <enleth> ah, ok
[07:11:51] <archivist> while malleable....will cool that quick anyway
[07:12:28] <archivist> watch a blacksmith move metal
[08:09:24] <tiwake> XXCoder: should I take the job?
[08:09:37] <XXCoder> tiwake: hard to say
[08:09:46] <XXCoder> after all what is work culture like there
[08:09:48] <enleth> archivist: it was a complete failure on two another attempts, but still, thanks for the hints, they might come in handy sometime
[08:09:50] <XXCoder> what would job be like
[08:09:57] <XXCoder> so on. I dont know you enough
[08:10:38] <Valen> can you not cut something to fill the gap?
[08:10:47] <enleth> archivist: the longer back weld is perfectly square and straight so I decided to bolt a plate over the front gap
[08:10:56] <tiwake> its hard to describe that until I've been working there for a little while
[08:11:23] <enleth> archivist: I'd put some kind of mounting rail there anyway
[08:13:20] <tiwake> XXCoder: its described as layed back, it seems like it on the surface I suppose
[08:13:50] <XXCoder> can you afford to move and leave job in short while later?
[08:15:02] <tiwake> they have a 401k thing where they match what you put in up to 10% of what you make
[08:15:29] <XXCoder> I have that too though less than 10% if I recall right
[08:15:47] <XXCoder> maybe go for it, just have a failure plan
[08:15:53] <XXCoder> dont want end up homeless or something
[08:16:06] <tiwake> heh, neh
[08:21:20] <tiwake> get to build machine controls too
[08:26:57] <XXCoder> nice
[08:41:32] <archivist> enleth, I was doing lorry body widths, also same method was on TV recently fitting car panels
[08:53:41] <enleth> archivist: I guess the problem here was the sheer fact that I cut this plate where it had a pretty big hole, so the plate itself wasn't there in the middle to keep the weld stable
[08:54:03] <enleth> but I realized that this might be a problem only after I cut it
[08:54:16] <archivist> tacks if right will hold it stable
[08:54:47] <enleth> well, neither I nor a friend who helped me couldn't get them right for some reason
[08:55:36] <archivist> one of those practice makes perfect things I suppose
[08:56:30] <enleth> yep, and I guess welding a relatively big piece of sheet metal straight is not among the basic excercises
[08:57:19] <enleth> still, that's not a problem here, I the plate is thick enough I can use countersunk screws on the bottom to bolt another piece of plate on top of the front gap and still get a smooth underside that won't snag when sliding it back in
[08:57:31] <archivist> I made a pigs ear out of a motorbike tank with gas welding
[08:57:33] <enleth> *s/, I/, /
[08:58:39] <enleth> the bolted on plate will double as an attachment point for the VFD which, incidentally, is going to end up right at this spot behind the front panel
[08:59:05] <enleth> so that it would be accessible for easy reprogramming by just flippinf the panel open
[08:59:42] <enleth> (remote panels for Toshiba VFDs cost more than this particular VFD did, brand new)
[09:00:26] <archivist> probably dont sell many remote panels
[09:01:50] <enleth> that's one thing I like about INVT brand chinese VFDs - every single one has a remote panel included
[09:02:05] <enleth> it just sits in the recess in the faceplate of the VFD by default
[09:02:30] <enleth> you can pull it out and connect it with an ethernet table
[09:02:47] <enleth> *cable
[09:02:49] <enleth> jeez
[09:03:12] <enleth> I need to get some sleep, I've been working on the ORAC for the last 20 hours or something like that
[09:06:17] <archivist> working through the night instead of going home!
[09:12:26] <root-x> Im thinking in put one 8mb pci video card for latency. Is 8mb enough?
[09:16:07] <root-x> old Ati Rage XL
[09:20:47] <XXCoder> 8 mb?
[09:20:57] <XXCoder> wheres you find that vinage
[09:20:58] <Loetmichel> root-x: iirc linuxCNC needs SOME 3d acceleration
[09:21:16] <Loetmichel> and also IIRC the rage xl has none
[09:22:40] <root-x> Ok tnx Loetmichel
[09:23:03] <root-x> now thinking in another, like nVIDIA FX5500 with pci and 256mb
[09:23:31] <Loetmichel> could/should work
[09:23:34] <root-x> But see if the consumptiom is not very hight
[09:23:40] <Loetmichel> but never tried one THAT old
[09:23:56] <MarkusBec> it is not a good idear to run linuxcnc an a crapy old mashine mtw
[09:23:58] <MarkusBec> btw
[09:24:10] <Loetmichel> MarkusBec: depends
[09:24:27] <Loetmichel> i had good results with an industrial PC with p4-3ghz
[09:24:32] <Loetmichel> and internal gpu
[09:24:46] <MarkusBec> a cheap new itx mainboard with all onboard for 100$ will do a better job
[09:24:47] <Loetmichel> that was a few version of linuxCNC back tho
[09:25:07] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13089&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[09:25:18] <Loetmichel> i had no room for that in the mill i buildt
[09:25:29] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13131
[09:25:52] <Loetmichel> the IPC barely fits: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13149 <- bottom view, lower half is the PC ;)
[09:26:23] <Loetmichel> had about 1mm to spave below/above the backplane/end of the cpu card ;)
[09:27:18] <MarkusBec> intel nuc ;)
[09:27:25] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13128
[09:27:42] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13107&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- front
[09:35:41] <root-x> My board have a 32mb embeeded, i have one free pci slot but not much space.
[09:35:44] <root-x> I see
[09:35:44] <root-x> http://www.ebay.es/itm/NEW-nVIDIA-FX5500-256MB-128bit-PCI-DDR-VGA-DVI-S-Video-Video-Card-/252352064267?hash=item3ac15aeb0b:g:TZ8AAOSwSzdXC7cM
[09:37:18] <root-x> This math perfect
[09:37:19] <root-x> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2174312&CatId=319
[10:04:15] <MarkusBec> it will work but i dont think i will be a nice user experience
[10:13:34] <saldot> I'm using this guide to get my tool lengh sensor to work; https://forum.linuxcnc.org/forum/10-advanced-configuration/5596-manual-tool-change-tool-lengh-touch-off?start=30#48235
[10:14:01] <saldot> but for some reason, even thought i set slow travel speeds in the config of that ncg file it tries to move the axes so fast the motor stalls..
[10:14:44] <saldot> Has someone got it working successfully and might have any suggestions on what i'm doing wrong?
[10:15:37] <archivist> have you got the switch/input inverted
[10:15:42] <root-x> MarkusBec im interested in use tklinuxcnc no 3d needed in the machine part
[10:17:10] <root-x> But
[10:17:12] <saldot> archivist: it doesnt even get to the probing part. It moves X,Y and Z to a position to start probing. But that move is icredibly fast, faster than i set in step config, and it stalls the motor
[10:17:51] <archivist> you must have set something too fast
[10:20:02] <saldot> perhaps, i have #<_ProbeFastFeed> = 5.0 That should be slow enough...
[10:20:08] <saldot> the default was 400
[10:21:43] <archivist> it should be impossible for a move to be above axes settings
[10:25:08] <saldot> It should be. But i cant see why Z would stall otherwise. I've the movement on z quite low in my step config. 20mm/s velocity and 40mm/s2 acceleration. Those values are way below what the machine is capable of
[10:25:28] <MarkusBec> wrong configuration in your stepconf
[10:25:30] <saldot> But when the tool change procedure starts it stalls Z
[10:26:03] <MarkusBec> there are only 2options g1 with the F command
[10:26:19] <MarkusBec> and g0 with the configuered joq speed
[10:27:59] <MarkusBec> bothe are impossible to move faster than your stepconf config
[10:29:00] <saldot> i'll check again
[10:37:09] <enleth> would it be possible/practical to use 7i77's field IO as step/dir outputs for stepgen?
[10:40:22] <cpresser> enleth: not really. they are to slow
[10:40:50] <cpresser> since they are driven by a dedicated uC it would be possible to write a firmware for that
[10:41:20] <cpresser> so for auxilliary tasks i think its possible in theory. but its a lot of effort
[10:41:48] <cpresser> so getting a 7i76 for that might be the better way
[10:43:57] <MarkusBec> all IOs at the 7i77 are muxed or with dedicated MCU
[10:45:02] <saldot> So it seems it wasn't stalling, it was just moving incredibly slow.
[10:45:25] <saldot> Yup, i feel pretty stupid now
[11:31:59] <pcw_home> enleth: even if the 7I77 field I/O could be used for step generation it would be
[11:32:00] <pcw_home> pretty awkward since the output drivers are not very fast and interfaced via SPI
[11:32:02] <pcw_home>
[12:19:49] <gregcnc> https://farmbot.io/ https://youtu.be/uNkADHZStDE i fail to understand the reasoning
[12:21:57] <CaptHindsight> it'sah robot
[12:22:10] <CaptHindsight> it plants and waters
[12:22:23] <CaptHindsight> send me money
[12:22:30] <archivist> because it's a mk42 idiot
[12:23:35] <CaptHindsight> for thousands of years himans had to suffer in the fields, planting, weeding, watering, gathering, harvesting, plowing etc
[12:23:52] <CaptHindsight> now a robot does the easy parts for you in a very small area
[12:23:56] <CaptHindsight> send me money
[12:24:22] <archivist> can you imagine the robots cold rails in a paddy field on the side of a mountain
[12:26:58] <CaptHindsight> if it had wheels or tracks it could cover a large area
[12:28:09] <CaptHindsight> watering requires a different design https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1li-jO0Mf14
[12:28:10] <archivist> wheels and tracks dont work in paddy fields either
[12:28:33] <CaptHindsight> or it would have to refill it tank often
[12:29:28] <CaptHindsight> could you build a bot to farm relatively flat terrain?
[12:30:29] <CaptHindsight> if Trump becomes precident I'll ask him if he wants a robot to replace the low paid gatherers he sends over the walls
[12:30:58] <CaptHindsight> robots paid for by Thailand
[12:32:15] <CaptHindsight> robot farm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfNBlB32TGM
[12:33:19] <CaptHindsight> Strawberry Harvesting Robot https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCBQqEGp8Go
[12:35:28] <CaptHindsight> hehe Coconut Harvesting Robot https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHHuOyXB8iU
[12:35:29] <archivist> it is amusing how noobs reinvent stuff
[12:36:03] <CaptHindsight> well reading is for boring people
[12:37:30] <archivist> cnc stick insect
[12:37:47] <CaptHindsight> and if you criticize the noobs poor design then you are a Hater
[12:39:12] <archivist> but but but automation started with a plough behind an ox
[12:39:14] <CaptHindsight> I had a few hour discussion with a university professor about her students and how they can't handle criticism
[12:40:06] <CaptHindsight> it's mostly kids from helicopter parents
[12:40:46] <CaptHindsight> they have rarely seen examples of what is great or excellent
[12:41:23] <CaptHindsight> and every one of their poops have been encased in a bell jar and praised fr its perfection
[12:42:18] <CaptHindsight> that seems to explain all the reinventing since they don't research what has already been done
[12:43:20] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dNiLa0IMKg Proper coconut tree climbing.
[12:43:25] <FinboySlick> ( love this guy )
[12:44:01] <archivist> actually reviewing patents shows the reinventing has been going on for a "while"
[12:45:04] <CaptHindsight> the patent problem is that reinventing is allowed to block competition and extend patents beyond the original period
[12:47:50] <CaptHindsight> FinboySlick: https://youtu.be/JQU6o4ooL5E?t=38s how to husk them
[12:48:06] <FinboySlick> Yeah, seen that one too. The guy has all the sass.
[12:48:11] <FinboySlick> I mean swag.
[12:48:23] <CaptHindsight> I'd love to see him on a cooking show
[12:55:53] <MarkusBec> orrrr CaptHindsight now i am looking farm videos. i have to work.....
[12:57:02] <archivist> hehe
[12:57:37] <archivist> the video watching rabbit hole is a feature of this channel
[13:00:25] <FinboySlick> It's one of my favourite features actually. Ironically, I'm mostly here from work.
[13:06:07] <CaptHindsight> they mostly grow corn around me, they have these tractors that ride above the corn with wheels that fit between the rows
[13:06:19] <CaptHindsight> they are wide enough to drive a car under
[13:07:07] <CaptHindsight> they could add the all the self driving tech and pick-n-place
[13:07:27] <CaptHindsight> but they are all operated by meat robots
[13:07:44] <archivist> some are laser guided
[13:08:02] <archivist> with meat backup if it wakes up
[13:10:40] <malcom2073_> Couple of the farmers around here have switched to autonomy on their harvesters and the like
[13:10:44] <malcom2073_> Pretty slick stuff
[13:16:29] <CaptHindsight> I can't find a pic of the ones I see around here http://farmweeknow.com/cdfm/Fareek3/author/34/Morehi-boy%20planter.jpg bit this is similar
[13:17:56] <CaptHindsight> I have to pull onto the shoulder to let them pass
[13:18:32] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: Good vehicle for the zombie apocalypse. All you need then is to bolt a mower to it.
[13:20:53] <Tom_itx> they likely build those around here
[13:21:10] <Tom_itx> hydraulic drive?
[13:21:35] <CaptHindsight> these are similar to the lifts they use to move forgings around under their bellies
[13:22:04] <CaptHindsight> they move down the road at a good 25mph or faster
[13:22:37] <Tom_itx> you in Ne?
[13:22:41] <CaptHindsight> can't find a pic
[13:22:48] <CaptHindsight> IL/Wi
[13:23:01] <Tom_itx> 'corn country
[13:23:55] <Tom_itx> they tried sunflowers here a bit but nobody grows them anymore
[13:24:09] <CaptHindsight> and when you cross over the border to Wi it is almost everything but corn
[13:24:10] <Tom_itx> some do cotton as an alternate crop now
[13:24:25] <Tom_itx> major crop is wheat
[13:24:27] <Tom_itx> and corn
[13:24:29] <CaptHindsight> this year they changed to soy
[13:24:35] <Tom_itx> beans.. yeah
[13:24:52] <CaptHindsight> seems like 4-5 years corn followed by 1-2 years soy
[13:25:02] <Tom_itx> feed milo
[13:25:07] <CaptHindsight> and it's mostly feed corn
[13:26:11] <CaptHindsight> I'm trying to find a place farther out and on/near a hilltop
[13:26:55] <CaptHindsight> it's the hilliest part of IL
[13:27:08] <CaptHindsight> right on the Wi border
[13:27:54] <Tom_itx> they gotta alternate because corn is so hard on the soil
[13:28:11] <CaptHindsight> Tom_itx: is it corn/wheat by you?
[13:28:13] <Tom_itx> alfalfa is used here alot
[13:28:17] <CaptHindsight> or mostly wheat
[13:28:17] <Tom_itx> yes
[13:28:19] <Tom_itx> all over
[13:28:30] <Tom_itx> wheat is done and corn is growing
[13:28:46] <Tom_itx> along with bean crops
[13:29:22] <Tom_itx> wheat looked good this year
[13:29:38] <Tom_itx> had the right weather to get it cut
[13:32:10] <CaptHindsight> when we have corn we have a 1/2 mile wide privacy fence
[13:32:41] <Tom_itx> yup
[13:33:28] <CaptHindsight> http://www.theverge.com/2015/11/26/9805778/dji-agriculture-drone-agras-mg-1
[13:34:38] <Tom_itx> what happened to the good ole biplanes?
[13:34:59] <Tom_itx> they're still a couple around here i see every once in a while
[13:35:08] <CaptHindsight> Tom_itx: you guys could use robot kites
[13:35:21] <CaptHindsight> steady wind and from one direction
[13:35:46] <Tom_itx> might get tangled up in all our windmills now
[13:36:57] <CaptHindsight> https://twitter.com/NCfirewire/status/744306282350448640/video/1
[13:37:07] <CaptHindsight> bounce house as it flies into high tension lines in Town Of Niagara
[13:39:49] <Tom_itx> i've seen similar
[13:39:54] <Tom_itx> any kids inside?
[13:39:59] <CaptHindsight> not this time
[13:40:40] <CaptHindsight> bouncy ride with giant tether
[13:40:56] <CaptHindsight> "rent at your own risk"
[13:41:01] <CaptHindsight> could be a winner
[13:41:25] <CaptHindsight> imagine the carnage
[13:41:43] <Tom_itx> all the news feeds are sucking up that video..
[13:42:28] <Tom_itx> just rent a weather balloon
[13:42:42] <Tom_itx> carry a parachute
[13:43:18] <Tom_itx> k, i'm out..
[14:29:17] <Loetmichel> HA! NIIICE that Ultrasonic cleaner... put the glasses 90 sec in it (filed with water, windex and some IPA)... squeaky clean... i can SEE again! ;)
[14:32:01] <yasnak> how much was it? im looking for a small ultrasonic for cleaning edm parts. our bigger ultrasonic cost 1k... :/
[14:36:07] <Loetmichel> yasnak: IIRC about 100 eur
[14:37:20] <Loetmichel> http://www.ebay.de/itm/Edelstahl-Ultraschallreinigungsgerat-Ultraschall-Reiniger-Ultraschallgerat-NEU-/252344050827 <- 1.3 liters
[14:37:25] <Loetmichel> less than 60 eur
[14:38:43] <Loetmichel> even the 30 liter one isnt that expensive ;)
[14:58:17] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: car finally working?
[14:58:46] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: no
[14:59:02] <Loetmichel> at the (different) mechanic again
[14:59:12] <Loetmichel> seems the other one killed 2 injectors.
[14:59:40] <Loetmichel> again 900 eur. and i cant even blame the original mechanic because i cant prove he did it
[14:59:43] <CaptHindsight> fix one thing, break two other things
[15:01:28] <Loetmichel> i am thinking of getting another "third car"... because the BMW is now 2 months over the mandatory tech inspection date. meaning that starting at 08/01/2016 it will cost a few 100 eur and a "point" on the license if the poice catechs me driving it
[15:02:23] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: how often does it need inspection?
[15:02:32] <Loetmichel> every two years
[15:02:42] <CaptHindsight> here it's just emissions tests every 2 years
[15:03:02] <CaptHindsight> they just scan for any codes
[15:03:11] <cpresser> they check securitiy critical parts. like brakes, lighting, ...
[15:03:15] <CaptHindsight> some states have safety inspections
[15:03:29] <CaptHindsight> yeah similar
[15:03:46] <Loetmichel> and tghe german "tuev" engineers are scrutiny checking it
[15:03:57] <cpresser> its expensive, but forces you to drive a somewhat save car. so i think its a good idea
[15:03:57] <Loetmichel> rust on loadbearing parts: no sticker
[15:04:03] <CaptHindsight> in IL you can drive a car with holes you can see right through
[15:04:12] <Loetmichel> engine has an pil drop on the bottom: no sticker
[15:04:25] <Loetmichel> it fails the emissions test: no sticker
[15:04:27] <Loetmichel> and so on
[15:04:51] <CaptHindsight> really? they check for oil leaks
[15:04:56] <Loetmichel> yes
[15:05:07] <CaptHindsight> you can leave a trail here without issues
[15:05:16] <Loetmichel> they even poke with a screwdriver at your cars underbelly
[15:05:22] <CaptHindsight> how else do you find your way back home? :)
[15:05:30] <Loetmichel> and if they poke thru somewhere: no sticker
[15:05:38] <cpresser> environmental issues. oil maes drinking water bad.. so its not allowed
[15:07:06] <cpresser> CaptHindsight: unfortunately i cant find a video in english: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypBlgmthitk
[15:07:41] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: even if you have some abs or engine erros logged in the MCU: no sticker
[15:07:49] <Loetmichel> ECU
[15:08:31] <CaptHindsight> same here in areas where they have the tests, mostly in the big cities
[15:09:08] <CaptHindsight> if I lived 1 mile from here there would be no test
[15:09:45] <CaptHindsight> you still see cars here where the fenders are flapping like wings going down the road
[15:10:20] <CaptHindsight> cars 94' and earlier are no longer tested
[15:11:00] <cpresser> i found it really interesting to see so much exploded tires along the interstate when i was visiting the US
[15:11:15] <cpresser> you rarely see them in europe
[15:11:21] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: are there exemptions for old or classic cars there?
[15:11:42] <CaptHindsight> cpresser: it's mostly the trucks here
[15:11:50] <cpresser> no exemptions.
[15:11:58] <CaptHindsight> trailer tires unraveling
[15:12:17] <cpresser> but for example, you dont need to install seatbelts in cars build bevore the 60s
[15:12:50] <CaptHindsight> cpresser: but it would still have to pass the rust and safety test
[15:13:02] <CaptHindsight> no ecu
[15:13:09] <CaptHindsight> no codes
[15:13:16] <CaptHindsight> with carburetor
[15:13:32] <CaptHindsight> do they put probes in the tailpipes?
[15:13:45] <malcom2073_> Hah, where I live, anything 20 years or older is "historic", so no inspection of any sort ever
[15:14:08] <CaptHindsight> IL is 25 years
[15:14:28] <CaptHindsight> for antique
[15:14:38] <CaptHindsight> 94 and earlier no test
[15:14:53] <CaptHindsight> so ODB-1 and earlier
[15:14:57] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: its 30 years in germany
[15:15:04] <Loetmichel> and they STILL need the "tuev"
[15:15:19] <Loetmichel> it will just be checked by 30 year old standards
[15:17:19] <CaptHindsight> http://image.streetrodderweb.com/f/events/1212sr_ntba_t_bucket_nationals/41712398/1212sr-06-ntba-t-bucket-nationals-custom-red-roadster.jpg
[15:18:11] <CaptHindsight> street legal
[15:18:40] <CaptHindsight> open exhaust, no fenders, has headlights and windshield
[15:19:50] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: no fenders: no go in germany
[15:20:26] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: Stop filling that poor european's mind with thoughts of liberty and self-responsibility ;)
[15:20:36] <Loetmichel> and you only get "historic" classification if its in a state that is "as close as original" as possible
[15:20:41] <Loetmichel> no modifications at all
[15:20:54] <Loetmichel> unless you can prove that they were made more than 30 years ago
[15:21:19] <CaptHindsight> FinboySlick: I recall a country that had some of what you mention years ago
[15:21:40] <CaptHindsight> for white people
[15:22:29] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: In practice. On the books it was pretty much for all people.
[15:22:41] <TurBoss> Hi
[15:22:49] <CaptHindsight> oh Canada!
[15:23:28] * Loetmichel is thinking about buying that as a beater... IF i can reasonably get it thru "tuev": http://ww3.autoscout24.de/classified/292420170
[15:23:51] <Loetmichel> because the BMW 316ti i have as a beater now is done for end of month
[15:23:59] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: Hah! We've definitely caught up with and left the US in the dust when it comes to erosion of those concepts.
[15:24:09] <TurBoss> my z axis stepper motor stoped working, it only bibrates, I have swiched motors in the driver board and seems the motor itself . is a nema 23 any suggestion plz?
[15:24:23] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: that would sell for $4k in the US
[15:25:01] <Loetmichel> it has some rust. and no tuev left
[15:25:02] <TurBoss> the motor has no load
[15:25:05] <Loetmichel> so its a gamble
[15:25:25] <Loetmichel> TurBoss: stepper motors dont die
[15:25:32] <Loetmichel> have you checked the wiring?
[15:25:38] <Loetmichel> maybe a broken wire?
[15:25:43] <TurBoss> ohh
[15:25:45] <TurBoss> will check
[15:25:48] <TurBoss> thx
[15:27:57] <CaptHindsight> http://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/cto/5649215038.html $6500 2001 X5
[15:28:53] <CaptHindsight> http://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/cto/5650050848.html $4800 2001 325 wagon
[15:29:29] <TurBoss> Loetmichel: I have checked with the multimeter and both coils are shown
[15:29:41] <Loetmichel> where?
[15:29:44] <Loetmichel> at the plug?
[15:29:50] <Loetmichel> wiggle the cabling
[15:29:56] <Loetmichel> and look at the Ohms
[15:29:59] <TurBoss> ok
[15:30:01] <Loetmichel> could be one is short
[15:31:26] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: BMW's here for under $1k are either not running or stolen
[15:32:44] <TurBoss> Loetmichel: both shown 1,8 Ohm
[15:33:17] <TurBoss> the driver board moves other motor without problems
[15:34:19] <Loetmichel> TurBoss: disconnect the shaft ogf the stepper and the unplug the motor
[15:34:22] <Loetmichel> and then turn it
[15:34:29] <Loetmichel> does it go smooth?
[15:34:37] <TurBoss> yes
[15:34:45] <TurBoss> i have here on the table
[15:34:54] <Loetmichel> hmm, did it get really hot sometime?
[15:35:04] <Loetmichel> i mean like 80+°c?
[15:35:21] <TurBoss> they are rated for 2,8amps and run at 1
[15:35:44] <TurBoss> also my z axis is not mounted never worked
[15:36:02] <TurBoss> never got load i mean
[15:36:16] <TurBoss> but worked before
[15:36:27] <TurBoss> just today stoped
[15:37:47] <TurBoss> the power supply is 10 A 24 v
[15:41:15] <TurBoss> will check the board
[15:41:34] <TurBoss> they are a4988
[15:41:41] <TurBoss> with heatskin
[15:42:02] <DLPeterson> anybody know what kind of mill is at 9:56 of this video: https://youtu.be/REeGn4hN1Bg?t=589
[15:44:46] <CaptHindsight> FinboySlick: do they shoot everyone equally for having a broken tail light no matter what color and creed?
[15:47:32] <FinboySlick> The Canadian strategy to racism is not to have enough minorities for the racism to appear statistically significant.
[15:48:11] <CaptHindsight> FinboySlick: did you use walls, fences, pointed sticks or? to accomplish this?
[15:48:30] <malcom2073_> Heh
[15:48:39] <malcom2073_> CaptHindsight: No, they made their country inhospitably cold
[15:48:51] <FinboySlick> Again, not enough minorities for those solutions to be needed, but that's not for lack of racism, that's for lack of minorities.
[15:48:52] <malcom2073_> White people were the only ones dumb enough to stick it out there
[15:49:38] <_methods> i think canada's indigenous population would disagree with you there
[15:49:38] <CaptHindsight> so there have been no anti-coldites?
[15:49:55] <CaptHindsight> marches against cold
[15:50:07] <FinboySlick> _methods: Good point. But we stick those so far north that we don't even need fences for them :P
[15:50:08] <TurBoss> Loetmichel: Found the issue , some one moved the amps pot of the power supply
[15:50:13] <TurBoss> thx!
[15:50:15] <_methods> hahah
[15:50:16] <CaptHindsight> anti sleet and snow protests
[15:50:19] <Loetmichel> TurBoss: great
[15:50:25] <Loetmichel> as i said: steppers dont die
[15:50:38] <TurBoss> except if they get hot no?
[15:50:52] <Loetmichel> if you dont demagnetize the rotor by overtemp or burn the windings or stick some dirt in the bearings
[15:51:04] <Loetmichel> thats the only few ways to kill tem
[15:51:11] <TurBoss> thx!
[15:51:13] <malcom2073_> Basically, you have to do something *really* wrong to break them
[15:51:16] <TurBoss> back to work
[15:51:17] <TurBoss> :P
[15:51:23] <malcom2073_> Which is nice,because you can get 30 year old steppers that work fine :)
[15:51:27] <Loetmichel> malcom2073_: exaclty
[15:52:05] <CaptHindsight> _methods: did you see the Dallas shooter go 1 on 1 with the officer on the sidewalk video?
[16:04:24] <XXCoder> thats one postive about steppers, they basically live forever
[16:04:40] <XXCoder> in least compared to servos
[16:04:53] <XXCoder> though I'm pretty sure servos can be rebuilt
[16:10:15] <FinboySlick> couldn't the same thing be said for AC servos?
[16:12:44] <Loetmichel> FinboySlick: ac servos usually work close to demagnitizing currends
[16:13:00] <Loetmichel> one mishap of the servo controller and you need to remagnetize the rotor
[16:13:05] <FinboySlick> Oh, didn't think of that.
[16:13:08] <Loetmichel> cant happen with normal steppers
[16:13:31] <Loetmichel> the windings will burn before you reach the demagnitizing current
[16:14:08] <Loetmichel> other than that they are pretty similar, right
[16:14:22] <Loetmichel> basically a ac servo is a 3 phase stepper in BIG ;)
[16:15:06] <SpeedEvil> Many servos are not permenant magnet core
[16:17:06] <Loetmichel> http://www.ebay.de/itm/252344050827 <. the 1.3 liters one
[16:17:27] <Loetmichel> uuups, wrong tab
[16:17:48] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel, sonic cleaner salesman ;)
[16:18:50] <Loetmichel> was meant for one channel over: #reprap
[16:19:00] <Loetmichel> there someone asked about US cleaners
[16:19:44] <Loetmichel> SpeedEvil: hmm. as far as i know they have to be
[16:20:24] <Loetmichel> does the ones without permanent magnest have slip like normal 3phase ac motors with a shorted core?
[16:21:23] <SpeedEvil> yes
[16:21:58] <Loetmichel> so they are basically ac motors with an encoder and the "servo part" is the vector control in the VFD?
[16:22:09] <SpeedEvil> yes
[16:24:54] <Duc_mobile> anyone know what fanuc motors came with a taper shaft on the motor? I bought a robot reduction gear and need to figure out the taper for the gear shaft
[16:36:08] <Deejay> gn8
[17:47:37] <chopper79> Hello everybody. I am in need of huge help here. I have .2" pitch ground ball screws with servos and 1000ppr encoders. The issue I am having for every .1" moved I add .001" additional to actual movement. Example would be command of .1" moved the bed .101" and command of .2" moved bed .202" The axis readout displays the correct movement, bu the indicator I placed on the bed always increase by an additional .001" per .1" commanded. When I command the machine
[17:47:40] <chopper79> Any ideas?
[17:48:55] <JT-Shop> how is the servo connected to the ball screw?
[17:49:06] <JT-Shop> and where is the encoder connected to?
[17:52:33] <CaptHindsight> scale off by 1%?
[17:54:08] <Tom_itx> likely metric ball screws
[17:54:54] <CaptHindsight> pictures please
[17:55:03] <chopper79> Jt- Servo is connected to pulley then belt to pulley on screw. The encoder is on the back of servo.
[17:55:15] <chopper79> 1:1 pully
[17:55:19] <chopper79> pulley
[17:55:26] <CaptHindsight> maybe
[17:55:44] <Kevin`> what settings can i change if loading the cpu to 100% improves max jitter?
[17:55:53] <pcw_home> a metric ball screw would likely move too little (5mm = 0.19685")
[17:56:03] <Tom_itx> possibly
[17:56:05] <chopper79> I tried using 5.08 instead of 5tpi and there was larger error by about .003"
[17:56:27] <Tom_itx> verify your ballscrew pitch, belt pulley ratio and encoder cpr
[17:56:46] <CaptHindsight> Kevin`: depends one the kernel and RTAI version
[17:56:56] <Kevin`> CaptHindsight: using the livecd right now
[17:57:02] <pcw_home> is it lost counts? does is come back to 0?
[17:57:15] <chopper79> verified encoder count with manufacture and also looked at raw counts and the raw counts moves exactly 4000 counts per full rotation.
[17:57:41] <pcw_home> so scale is set to 20000?
[17:57:46] <chopper79> increases .001" per .1" commanded and always returns to dead zero
[17:57:49] <chopper79> yes
[17:58:21] <CaptHindsight> Kevin`: maybe isolcpus = 1
[17:58:23] <Tom_itx> did you verify the linear travel of one turn of the ballscrew?
[17:58:30] <Kevin`> so, 3.4-9-rtai-686-pae
[17:58:34] <chopper79> .2"
[17:58:45] <pcw_home> (go 100 turns)
[17:59:00] <Tom_itx> yeah that would increase the error if any
[17:59:02] <chopper79> give or take .0001-2
[17:59:13] <CaptHindsight> Kevin`: how many cores do you have?
[17:59:20] <Kevin`> CaptHindsight: 4
[17:59:23] <Kevin`> plus ht
[17:59:52] <CaptHindsight> Kevin`: turn off HT
[18:00:00] <Kevin`> i'm just working through the computers in the house right now looking for good ones, and this one seems good with weirdness
[18:00:00] <JT-Shop> chopper79: the belt could be stretched a bit
[18:00:27] <CaptHindsight> Kevin`: try isolcpus=1, and also isolcpus=2,3
[18:00:28] <pcw_home> ok so if you do a move of 1 inch is the ballscrew angle exactly the same as at the start?
[18:00:47] <CaptHindsight> Kevin`: compare results
[18:01:26] <CaptHindsight> Kevin`: I've lost track of what RTAI version is on the livecd
[18:01:33] <Kevin`> CaptHindsight: what does the parameter mean, exactly?
[18:01:41] <pcw_home> also what kind of latency are you aiming at and what are you getting?
[18:02:07] <CaptHindsight> Kevin`: it isolates real time to only that one cpu core
[18:02:53] <CaptHindsight> Kevin`: there was a period where the isolcpus setting was upside down and backwards
[18:03:01] <KreAture_> Loetmichel !
[18:03:17] <KreAture_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/181881293240
[18:03:19] <KreAture_> :)
[18:03:26] <KreAture_> Going to love playing with this
[18:04:05] <chopper79> Ok... command 1" movement and the dial indicator reads 1.004". MDI back to 0.00 and dial reads 0.00
[18:04:47] <KreAture_> :) you using seperate readout or is this data from the control display running the machine ?
[18:04:58] <KreAture_> I've seen rounding errors before on linuxcnc
[18:05:32] <Kevin`> pcw_home: just targetting the numbers from the wiki, for use with a small mill. this machine does.. well here: http://kwzs.be/~kevin/forpcw.png
[18:05:46] <Loetmichel> KreAture_: that looks beefy
[18:05:52] <KreAture_> Loetmichel yup
[18:05:57] <KreAture_> Loetmichel it's 9kgs
[18:06:26] <chopper79> I am using LCNC display readout and then using a dial indicator on the bed
[18:06:52] <KreAture_> 1.35 Nm motor apparantly which makes for 8.1 Nm after 6:1 reduction. At max radius for chuck (100mm dia) I would get 162 N force on surface
[18:06:59] <KreAture_> holding power
[18:07:31] <chopper79> Maximum error it look like is .005" no matter how much I increase the distance. The error scales .001" per .1" commanded until it reaches .005" error (increased) then stays there.
[18:07:49] <CaptHindsight> Kevin`: turn off all power management, speed stepping, thermal management etc
[18:07:59] <Kevin`> yeah
[18:08:03] <Kevin`> brb
[18:08:12] <CaptHindsight> fans all on high
[18:09:07] <chopper79> did a 1" test again and I was incorrect the first time. 1" commanded gives 1.0045 on dial indicator. Axis display reads 1.0
[18:10:20] <pcw_home> what about the ballscrew angle at 0 and commanded 1"
[18:10:49] <XXCoder> chopper79: does error scale with distance traveled?
[18:11:27] <KreAture_> sigh I will repeat, it is NOT an error it's a rounding issue
[18:11:36] <KreAture_> I've seen this before
[18:11:46] <KreAture_> is the control system working in mm or inches
[18:11:49] <pcw_home> not rounding
[18:11:52] <KreAture_> "internally"
[18:11:56] <pcw_home> nope
[18:12:25] <KreAture_> since it does not scale with motion as he said before, it's just reporting wrong or rounding
[18:12:48] <KreAture_> A good test is doing 1" then 2" and 3" so that you avoid any backlash
[18:13:06] <KreAture_> if it still keeps hitting 0.004" off it is rounding
[18:13:24] <KreAture_> It's a remarkable 0.1mm error btw
[18:13:43] <KreAture_> oh shit sorry, I reread now and it does scale
[18:13:46] <KreAture_> LOL
[18:14:00] <KreAture_> hmm odd
[18:14:00] <enleth> looking for some kind of cheap chinese parallel BOB to control stepper drives on the ORAC before I get my hands on a proper Mesa card (a friend is going to California in late August and will be able to fetch it, after the problems with customs on the last order we prefer it that way), any suggestions?
[18:14:12] <XXCoder> chopper79: sounds like backlash?
[18:14:15] <KreAture_> I'd add tests at 1 2 3 4 5" to see if it continues to scale though
[18:14:41] <chopper79> The distance scales by .001" per .1" up to .005". Example = .1" = .101, .2 = .202, .3=.303, .4 = .404, .5 = .505, .6 = .605, .7 = .705, .8 = .805, .9 = .905. Then g00 back to 0.00 and dial reads 0
[18:14:54] <XXCoder> but then is it possible to have backlash that goes too far rather than short
[18:14:56] <XXCoder> ?
[18:16:34] <XXCoder> hm no I'm wrong, not possible its backlash
[18:16:57] <KreAture_> chopper79 but what about 2" 3" etc
[18:17:28] <KreAture_> also is this screw or belt ?
[18:17:35] <KreAture_> because it could be screw pitch has a wobble
[18:17:38] <chopper79> If I use my MPg and run the dial indicator to 1.0" then axis readout shows .995". Then if I use the mpg to run back to zero on dial indicator the axis readout shows zero also
[18:18:09] <chopper79> servo to pulley setup then pulley to ballscrew
[18:18:22] <JT-Shop> sounds like belt stretch, I see that on my plasma big time and adjust the scale to fix
[18:18:27] <KreAture_> ratio of pulley and pitch of screw ?
[18:18:43] <JT-Shop> or put on some new belts
[18:18:45] <chopper79> 1:1 pulley and the screw is .2" pitch
[18:18:58] <JT-Shop> chopper79: are the belts round tooth?
[18:19:02] <KreAture_> ok so if there was a wobble it would be at 0.2" intervalls
[18:19:12] <KreAture_> are you using a testdial thing to measure this ?
[18:19:29] <chopper79> yes round tooth and yes test dial indicator
[18:19:29] <KreAture_> if so, you need to set the dial at -0.1" and then run into it to get to 0, before starting to measure upwards
[18:19:47] <KreAture_> if you do not you will not preload indicator and it will not give right numbers on axis
[18:20:00] <chopper79> The dial is preloaded by .2"
[18:20:12] <KreAture_> ok
[18:20:22] <KreAture_> but the axis didn't do that so still wrong
[18:20:51] <KreAture_> you say that it goes back to 0 if you run to 0 again, but try running to -0.1 and see what happens then when running to 0
[18:21:00] <chopper79> 2" test shows .005" max increase also. Looks like the max increase is .005"
[18:21:03] <JT-Shop> with the encoder on the servo the drive does not know where the axis is only the motor postion
[18:21:34] <JT-Shop> so your saying it does not keep climbing up in error?
[18:21:40] <XXCoder> strange, that. linear error increase then it stays there
[18:21:45] <KreAture_> I am talking about slop, backlash and tension in system being sourc eof error
[18:22:15] <KreAture_> could be why it goes to 0.005 and stays there
[18:22:22] <pcw_home> I would turn the ball screw one turn then exactly 5 turns more to try and bisect the problem
[18:22:33] <KreAture_> maybe a motion back to -1 and then to 0 before zeroing dial would tell more
[18:24:09] <chopper79> running to -0.1" the dial shows -0.1" movement then goes back to zero
[18:24:55] <chopper79> -0.2 goes -0.2 and then back to zero when commanded.
[18:25:17] <chopper79> only one direction it seems. Seems the increase only happens in the positive direction.
[18:25:22] <KreAture_> It could be your test setup that is flawed or motion has a erorr in the screw ?
[18:25:22] <chopper79> I will try further out
[18:27:27] <chopper79> Ok so going in + direction I get the increase of .001" per .1" commanded up to .005" then going in the negative direction I get the same errors only negative readings.
[18:27:48] <KreAture_> aha
[18:28:27] <chopper79> Looks like the issue is either direction I get an error of .001" per .1 commanded up to .005"
[18:30:15] <KreAture_> if you shift your entire test sideways and measure again resetting testdial to 0, does the same occur ?
[18:30:17] <chopper79> Could this be wrong screw pitch I have set. It is an old 1994 knee mill. Not sure if they are metric or standard screws. I went with standard screws based off using the hand dial on the X axis to make 1 full rotation and recored the movement with my dial indicator
[18:30:40] <KreAture_> wrong screw pitch would change steadily
[18:30:58] <chopper79> I do not understand what you mean by sideways
[18:31:13] <KreAture_> you have a testdial mounted somewhere right ?
[18:31:19] <KreAture_> and the axis is longer than 2" ?
[18:31:26] <KreAture_> Go to a completely different spot and test there
[18:31:41] <KreAture_> if the error does the same there it is most likely test setup
[18:31:54] <chopper79> magnetic base to the bed with dial pin on spindle
[18:32:15] <KreAture_> aha!
[18:32:17] <chopper79> spindle locked so no rotation possible.
[18:32:24] <KreAture_> but on round piece of spindle right ?
[18:32:28] <KreAture_> try flat area
[18:32:40] <chopper79> one sec
[18:32:42] <KreAture_> slightest error in angle and it can do that
[18:33:04] <KreAture_> what may happen is the pin shifts on the round surface
[18:40:51] <chopper79> ok...I am going to drink beer and yell at myself.
[18:41:41] <chopper79> commanded .4" dial reads .3992" commanded -.4" dial reads -.399"
[18:41:52] <chopper79> using the head casting as refrence.
[18:42:30] <XXCoder> chopper79: I used caliper to check distance traveled few times
[18:42:45] <XXCoder> just extend it then hold it as machines moves
[18:43:01] <KreAture_> chopper79 so I was right, test setup
[18:43:02] <XXCoder> it cant do negative distance but works pretty well
[18:43:03] <KreAture_> :)
[18:43:08] <chopper79> Chasing nothing all because when I mill out a 1.55" square the measured size after milling is 1.58" so I assumed (wrong of me) that the scaling was wrong
[18:43:37] <KreAture_> chopper79 well milling a channel will make a channel that is with of bit + chatter
[18:43:42] <KreAture_> minimum
[18:44:25] <CaptHindsight> where do you set the figure for the amount of chatter wanted?
[18:44:31] <KreAture_> as for milling outside of a square, that will be up to deflection and depending on climb or conventional milling it will grow or shrink. Then chatter will do some more erroring for ya
[18:44:32] <Kevin`> CaptHindsight: disabling power management improved the worst case times with the cpu idle, but loading the cpu still makes more difference, I will try fiddling with isolcpus
[18:44:35] <chopper79> Milling outside to inside (side milling)
[18:45:24] <CaptHindsight> Kevin`: I'm running the livecd right now on a quad core AMD athlon from 8 years ago
[18:45:26] <chopper79> .03" step over with 2 finish passes of .01" each
[18:45:41] <CaptHindsight> getting ~8k jitter
[18:46:14] <chopper79> finish is perfect ...just not the right size part...haha.
[18:47:58] <CaptHindsight> Kevin`: the latest RTAI doesn't require any isolcpus setting
[18:48:06] <Kevin`> CaptHindsight: i'll work my way down to boards like that eventually, problem is most of the stuff I have from that era is no longer working properly, bad caps or other problems
[18:48:27] <CaptHindsight> looks like the livecd doesn't use any isolcpus setting
[18:48:36] <Kevin`> CaptHindsight: so it won't have much effect changing it?
[18:49:01] <CaptHindsight> Kevin`: i lost track of the version RTAI they used but you can try and see what it does
[18:49:08] <CaptHindsight> maybe yes, maybe no good
[18:49:10] <Kevin`> how can I check the version?
[18:49:33] <CaptHindsight> trying isolcpus will take less time
[18:50:26] <CaptHindsight> if you told me the RTAI version, I'd have to see what bugs were in ti
[18:50:31] <CaptHindsight> ti/it
[18:51:53] <Kevin`> will the rt stuff automatically pick an isolated cpu or is there user stuff needed too?
[18:54:31] <chopper79> Well thank to all for the help. I am always thankful.
[18:56:35] <KreAture_> :)
[19:01:15] <Kevin`> CaptHindsight: i'm not sure yet if that helped or hurt, but loading the cpu still makes the largest difference
[19:05:53] <XXCoder> chopper79: glad figured out :)
[19:13:37] <CaptHindsight> Kevin`: you're not always sure what the fuctory BIOS will do
[19:14:08] <CaptHindsight> you think you turn off speed stepping and throttling and it's not actually off
[19:14:18] <CaptHindsight> the BIOS sdk's are crap
[19:14:35] <CaptHindsight> you only know for sure with coreboot
[19:23:29] <Kevin`> are there any coreboot boards still for sale? last I heard both intel and amd were shirking opensource
[19:23:42] <Kevin`> that would be a nice starting point if I can't get this one working nice
[19:30:28] <Kevin`> the coreboot site looks dead, and must have been so for a while as it's no longer indexed. there used to be tons of information there that apparently doesn't exist anymore
[19:32:24] <FinboySlick> I wonder if the nature of EFI/UEFI killed it.
[19:43:39] <jymmm> I'm tapping 1/4"mild steel with a 3/8-16 tap MANUALLY in the drill press, but it keeps slipping in the chuck. =(
[19:44:07] <FinboySlick> You need a better chuck.
[19:44:17] <jymmm> It's what I got
[19:44:46] <jymmm> any suggestions?
[19:46:05] <FinboySlick> Locktite!
[19:46:33] <FinboySlick> Though more realistically: A sharper tap.
[19:47:00] <jymmm> who sells quality taps?
[19:47:08] <jymmm> err brand brand?
[19:47:25] <XXCoder> I heard machining taps is better in that respect but no brand names named
[19:47:29] <Loetmichel> meh, windows froze completely. no ctrl/lat/del, no mouse noting. had to press the rest button... thats a first on this machine.
[19:50:06] <_methods> jymmm: osg
[19:50:51] <jymmm> _methods: DAMN $27
[19:50:51] <FinboySlick> jymmm: https://www.maritool.com/Cutting-Tools-Taps/c78_148/index.html See if they have something you like. I can vouch on the service.
[19:51:04] <_methods> you asked who made quality taps
[19:51:28] <jymmm> _methods: I said quality, not reinactment of deliverance!
[19:51:33] <_methods> hahah
[19:52:20] <jymmm> _methods: Which is kinda funny as I'm in the middle of watchign deliverance today
[19:53:15] <XXCoder> I missed delivery today
[19:53:29] <XXCoder> I think its noga deburr tools I ordered
[19:55:19] <jymmm> FinboySlick: Hmmm, just as expensive s OSG that XXCoder mentined https://www.maritool.com/Cutting-Tools-Taps-Thread-Forming-Taps-Plug-Form-Tap/c78_148_274_275/p11364/Plug-Style-Thread-Forming-Tap-TiN-Coated-3/8-16-H7/product_info.html
[19:55:54] <XXCoder> I didn't say any brand names :)
[19:56:11] <jymmm> err _methods mentioned, not XXCoder
[19:56:23] <FinboySlick> jymm: https://www.maritool.com/Cutting-Tools-Taps-Spiral-Point-Taps-Plug-Taps/c78_148_224_225/p13781/Spiral-Point-Plug-Tap-Steam-Oxide-3/8-16-H5/product_info.html
[19:57:06] <FinboySlick> You're cutting the thread or forming it?
[19:57:13] <jymmm> cutting
[19:57:24] <FinboySlick> Then the one you pasted is not for you.
[19:58:42] <jymmm> FinboySlick: Yeah, I realized that afte the fact =)
[19:59:22] <jymmm> I wonder if I can roughen up the shank for it to grasp better in the chuck?
[19:59:36] <jymmm> without fucking it up that is =)
[19:59:51] <jymmm> thats all I need, an ovel threaded hole =)
[19:59:56] <jymmm> oval*
[20:00:50] <jymmm> Or a nice beveled one / /
[20:00:56] <FinboySlick> Wrap a bit of sandpaper (with the rough part facing the tap) before you clamp it in the chuck.
[20:01:54] <jymmm> FinboySlick: nice idea. Thik I should "sand" the shank a tad, seems AWFULLY smooth
[20:02:44] <andypugh> jymmm: There are tappping collets…
[20:03:06] <jymmm> andypugh: not in the forest there's not ;)
[20:03:23] <jymmm> andypugh: Lots of squirrels, bears, and mnt lions though
[20:03:30] <andypugh> Depends on the forest
[20:03:36] <jymmm> oh and wild peacocks too, but no collets.
[20:03:52] <XXCoder> collets all way in
[20:04:06] <jymmm> XXCoder: ?
[20:04:13] <andypugh> Ever seen a golden pheasant?
[20:04:37] <jymmm> andypugh: The tap is chucked in my drill press and slipping if you missed that part.
[20:04:41] <XXCoder> just a lame joke taken from turtles all way down comment from flat worlder of ye olde era
[20:05:03] <jymmm> andypugh: not up here,
[20:05:08] <jymmm> XXCoder: ah, heh
[20:05:29] <andypugh> They don’t look a lot like a pheasant. But then I don’t know if you have them either.
[20:05:47] <andypugh> I know you had to re-name a thrush to have a robin :-)
[20:06:24] <jymmm> they look cool https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/Chrysolophus_pictus_walking.JPG
[20:07:57] <andypugh> yeah, I have seen one once. They look like a pheeasant that got involved in an explosion in a paint shop.
[20:08:08] <jymmm> hahahaha
[20:08:53] <andypugh> Robins: This is a european robin. Small, round, cute looking: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f0/Robintitchwell82.jpg
[20:09:10] <jymmm> err sorry on the caps
[20:09:24] <andypugh> Does your drill press have a morose tapir?
[20:10:06] <jymmm> just a jacobs chuck
[20:10:46] <jymmm> it's just a Crapsman press
[20:10:52] <andypugh> What do you intend doing with a tap in a drill press?
[20:11:30] <jymmm> andypugh: It's just for alignment, turning by hand.
[20:11:33] <andypugh> (I can speculate on the likely outcome, and can’t see that that is what you would be wanting)
[20:11:53] <XXCoder> andypugh: sphere
[20:12:23] <andypugh> Ah, right, so use a T-handle and just put a centre in the drill chuck to keep things square
[20:13:55] <jymmm> ??? a centre in the drill chuck ???
[20:14:36] <XXCoder> theres special tool that has just long rod then thinner rod that you out into top of tap
[20:14:48] <XXCoder> so drill press holds tap stright as you manually tap part
[20:14:57] <_methods> spring center
[20:15:00] <andypugh> If the tap has a centre-hole yes
[20:15:11] <XXCoder> yeah. dunno what jym is using
[20:15:20] <jymmm> POS
[20:15:42] <_methods> https://www.amazon.com/Brown-Sharpe-599-792-30-Adjustable-Tensioned/dp/B005317ZMC
[20:16:17] <jymmm> ah
[20:16:39] <_methods> put that in chuck then put spring center point in the center hole in tap handle
[20:17:17] <jymmm> ah ok
[20:19:04] <_methods> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-lwLLfG5jQcY/TWQcuLBUOCI/AAAAAAAABeo/IIWbsUdgHd4/s1600/bpcentertap.jpg
[20:19:06] <_methods> like that
[20:19:07] <andypugh> Or in the cenre hole in the end of the tap, with a normal clamp-on handle.
[20:41:55] <SpeedEvil> What is the term for a steel cylinder, with a tapped hole - for securing timber ?
[20:41:57] <SpeedEvil> you drill into the side of the beam, drill a hole along the beam, and can then draw the beam tight using a bolt
[20:53:59] <CaptHindsight> how much do you think that most police dept will pay for bomb delivery bots?
[20:55:25] <CaptHindsight> Roomba with a 10Kg payload should be good enough
[20:59:44] <SpeedEvil> A hideous development.
[20:59:48] <SpeedEvil> At least used as it was.
[21:04:29] <CaptHindsight> Boomba https://imagebin.ca/v/2nWa1eLIjHhG
[21:05:48] <CaptHindsight> it was nuts to let them start playing judge and jury in the field
[21:06:08] <CaptHindsight> unless that serves your purpose
[21:16:48] <malcom2073_> SpeedEvil: I know what you're talking about
[21:18:20] <malcom2073_> Can't for the life of me find it though, I was planning on using the same method to hold together steel tube
[21:38:21] <SpeedEvil> I mean - in principle I could DIY.
[21:38:23] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[22:38:38] <jymmm> SpeedEvil: a sleeve? They used steel to retrofit t all the concrete pillars after the northridge earthquake
[22:38:51] <jymmm> on fwy overpasses, etc
[22:40:08] <jymmm> SpeedEvil: oh a cross slot nut or barrel nut... http://image.made-in-china.com/43f34j00ynTaBUQdLZqJ/Cross-Slot-Dowel-Barrel-Nut-Furniture-Nut.jpg
[22:40:22] <jymmm> cross slide nut*
[22:40:30] <SpeedEvil> thanks
[22:41:17] <jymmm> SpeedEvil: used mostly in the furniture indutry
[22:43:37] <jymmm> http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20160709191601&SearchText=cross+nut
[22:46:07] <malcom2073_> Yes!
[22:46:10] <malcom2073_> Bed posts
[22:46:12] <malcom2073_> that's where I had seen it before