#linuxcnc | Logs for 2016-07-03

[01:09:26] <XXCoder> https://youtu.be/yP6PAZntTc4 interestubg
[01:09:46] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: yeah I was happy to see that change. After all SCAM is not good part of name lol
[01:11:36] <yasnak> ever blew 600k in one day?
[01:11:47] <XXCoder> 600k pennies? yeah
[01:12:16] <yasnak> firetrace didn't work
[01:12:29] <yasnak> 5-axis mill burned down, plus a little hole in the roof lol
[01:12:54] <XXCoder> yasnak: ouch! what happened?
[01:12:56] <yasnak> all because the alarm on the coolant pump didn't turn the mill off...love titanium
[01:13:34] <yasnak> ill get pictures tomorrow...what a mess. the firefighters used powder and it blew everywhere. now need to clean the entire back shop
[01:13:51] <XXCoder> insured?
[01:13:55] <yasnak> of course
[01:14:00] <XXCoder> whew thats good
[01:14:05] <yasnak> but im sure the insurance company will love us during renewal time
[01:14:28] <yasnak> many errors: operators not removing chips...which just added tons of fuel to the fire
[01:14:39] <yasnak> then the coolant pumps alarm was bypassed...
[01:14:57] <yasnak> and firetrace didn't have enough punch to kill the fire. :/
[01:14:57] <XXCoder> so Ti burns really good eh?
[01:15:16] <yasnak> its an amazing fire. goes from a little hot spot to inferno within seconds.
[01:15:18] <XXCoder> should have metal fire extuster (type D)
[01:15:26] <tiwake> titanium fire?
[01:15:28] <tiwake> woah
[01:15:29] <yasnak> we do, nobody was here. we run lights out during weekends
[01:15:48] <XXCoder> so it was running a very long job
[01:15:51] <yasnak> i8ts not as bad as it could have been
[01:16:11] <yasnak> we've had many fires, this isn't the first. we had fire dept tell us we had to put things in as theyt were getting called so often
[01:16:22] <tiwake> who decided to bypass coolant thing?
[01:16:34] <XXCoder> yeah thats just bad
[01:16:38] <yasnak> and we had to evacuate the building so much. so this is our first real bad one. usually the machine just turns off and then we notice a macjhine powered down and find out it had a fire
[01:16:59] <yasnak> seems like operators were bypassing things to get around downtime
[01:17:17] <XXCoder> sounds to me that comopany was gambling and finally threw a snake eyes
[01:17:22] <yasnak> yep
[01:17:32] <yasnak> spindle turning = money, not turning = no money ;/
[01:17:43] <XXCoder> know what
[01:17:46] <yasnak> proactive maintenance all over my ass come tuesday.
[01:17:50] <XXCoder> I would hire just one guy
[01:18:04] <XXCoder> his or her duty is just check over everything
[01:18:11] <yasnak> we have this in place already haha
[01:18:12] <XXCoder> long shift but 2 days
[01:18:26] <yasnak> we tried this already, apparently they were in on it
[01:18:34] <tiwake> lol
[01:18:39] <XXCoder> then why did fire go so bad?
[01:18:51] <yasnak> oh, like someone stay when unmanned?
[01:18:58] <tiwake> XXCoder: oh you mean to check on machines
[01:19:02] <yasnak> i try to do this myself, its hard. its hard to find someone to trust
[01:19:03] <XXCoder> yeah
[01:19:04] <tiwake> for weekend runs
[01:19:10] <yasnak> lots of money/things in this building
[01:19:13] <XXCoder> just around and ensure nothing fucks up
[01:19:22] <yasnak> yeah its hard, you need someone skilled
[01:19:37] <XXCoder> yasnak: just get someone who knows how to hit E-Stop
[01:19:45] <XXCoder> and how to use type D
[01:19:48] <yasnak> we might just go back to a slight 2nd shift w/3rd 4hr ghost shift
[01:20:03] <yasnak> i'd rather them not even touch the machines. just call 911
[01:20:13] <yasnak> you open that door and add air...that goes from 0-60 fast
[01:20:19] <XXCoder> machine may be stopped but its not destroyed (nor entire shop)
[01:20:36] <XXCoder> yasnak: just e-stop it stops everything, then hit power on that machine
[01:20:40] <yasnak> we shall see what the bosses say. it should be fun :P
[01:20:47] <XXCoder> if its still on fire call 911
[01:20:49] <yasnak> the firetrace e-stops the machine automatically
[01:21:14] <XXCoder> interesting. its first i hear of firetrace
[01:21:25] <yasnak> http://www.firetrace.com/applications/industrial-fire-suppression/cnc-machines/
[01:22:00] <yasnak> type d means you gotta clean the entire cnc machine out. wipe all shit out of the sump
[01:22:11] <yasnak> oh well, time for bed. what a fun weekend so far :P
[01:22:27] <XXCoder> heh later, hopefully it will be magically unburnt then lol
[01:22:37] <yasnak> if only this was a dream
[01:22:38] <XXCoder> joking. hope it gets resolved
[01:22:42] <tiwake> do you believe in magic?
[01:22:45] <yasnak> eh, only thing that sucks is...
[01:22:52] <yasnak> getting a new machine. rewriting programs
[01:22:56] <yasnak> getting it installed
[01:22:58] <yasnak> blahhhhh
[01:23:04] <XXCoder> unless its same machine type?
[01:23:16] <tiwake> wait wait
[01:23:23] <XXCoder> yasnak: what will you do with burnt machine? I guess someone could buy to refarbish it
[01:23:24] <tiwake> why would you need to rewrite programs?
[01:23:36] <yasnak> different controls
[01:23:46] <XXCoder> tiwake: at my work there is MANY machines, many variants of gcode
[01:24:02] <tiwake> oh, tweaking the commands a little, yeah
[01:24:11] <yasnak> each machine is so different
[01:24:13] <tiwake> tool changing and stuff
[01:24:15] <XXCoder> and in some cases, limiting rpm and stuff
[01:24:20] <yasnak> we have so many different types ha
[01:24:20] <tiwake> yeah, I understand that
[01:24:51] <XXCoder> one machine at work cant go behind 4500 rpm (its actually limited to 10,000 but it evenually breaks spindle and we replaced it twice at great expense)
[01:24:57] <tiwake> its ridiculous how varied everything is for the G and M code, even if its the same exact machine
[01:25:02] <XXCoder> so its limited to 4500 rpm forever
[01:25:18] <yasnak> m codes are fairly similar
[01:25:21] <yasnak> G codes...meh
[01:25:25] <yasnak> but controls themselves...
[01:25:28] <XXCoder> g does get odd
[01:25:42] <yasnak> like our 840d's
[01:25:53] <yasnak> 3 channels...totally seperate programs for each channel
[01:26:10] <yasnak> where as mits is 1 program which is delimited by whatever
[01:26:17] <XXCoder> that is strange.
[01:26:26] <yasnak> CH_1 CH_2 CH_3
[01:26:34] <tiwake> was in a shop where the serial number difference between two machines made by the same company, same model, 30 serial numbers different... all the canned cycles have to be rewritten and some of the M codes are different
[01:26:35] <yasnak> $0, $1, $2
[01:26:51] <yasnak> tiwake, we have these same issues
[01:27:01] <yasnak> the builders even make differences in the ladders so like...
[01:27:02] <XXCoder> ugggh
[01:27:03] <tiwake> ugh
[01:27:05] <tiwake> yeah
[01:27:09] <yasnak> one you can keep door open with coolant
[01:27:13] <yasnak> and the other you cannot
[01:27:17] <tiwake> ugh exactly
[01:27:22] <tiwake> oh thats easy to fix
[01:27:37] <yasnak> yeah but bypassing is against many safety regs
[01:27:42] <tiwake> so?
[01:27:51] <yasnak> heh
[01:27:54] <XXCoder> yasnak: that sucks on closed only one. sometimes I need to run coolant while door is open to adjust stuff
[01:28:08] <tiwake> yep
[01:28:11] <yasnak> yeah well the mills have that issue. its worst when using edge finder
[01:28:16] <yasnak> you cannot edge find with door open
[01:28:18] <yasnak> on one
[01:28:23] <yasnak> so it is barely ever used haha
[01:28:29] <XXCoder> yasnak: dont there nice friendly key that bypasses?
[01:28:44] <tiwake> just linuxCNC everything up
[01:28:47] <yasnak> there is, just we get into the same issue we have with this fire
[01:28:54] <yasnak> someone leaves the key in...forgetsd to take it out
[01:28:59] <XXCoder> (shop I work at its always tagged with "REMOVE tag before flight")
[01:29:14] <yasnak> yeah, if only people could read ;)
[01:29:22] <XXCoder> lol its quite large and red
[01:29:36] <yasnak> lol
[01:29:40] <XXCoder> though few jobs it must be used due to freqent tasks to do
[01:29:42] <yasnak> wont work ;)
[01:29:59] <yasnak> either way, time for bed. happy 4th guys
[01:30:06] <XXCoder> night have good 4th
[01:30:09] <tiwake> happy early 4th
[01:31:09] <XXCoder> man wish I was very good mechinc
[01:31:20] <tiwake> why?
[01:31:29] <XXCoder> or I'd grab that machine that was on fire and fix it. but then its Ti fire, its probably destroyed period
[01:31:35] <tiwake> mechanics get the butt of everything
[01:31:44] <tiwake> fixing everyone elses junk
[01:31:47] <XXCoder> not mech as JOB
[01:31:57] <XXCoder> just skillset to make nice working machine at home cheap
[01:32:06] <tiwake> junk that does not deserve to be fixed
[01:32:19] <tiwake> and customers complaining about how much everything costs
[01:32:27] <XXCoder> why not, just spend few thouands to have working $750,000 ,machine
[01:33:01] <tiwake> oh, yeah, that would be more distinct from, say, a car mechanic
[01:33:34] <XXCoder> indeed
[01:33:40] <tiwake> the old word for machinist is mechanic
[01:33:58] <XXCoder> know whats old definition of robot?
[01:34:02] <XXCoder> forced labor.
[01:34:06] <tiwake> heh
[01:34:22] <tiwake> textile factory <3
[01:34:39] <XXCoder> watch out though
[01:34:55] <XXCoder> once AI happens and robots realize what robot old definition means.. lol
[01:36:25] <tiwake> that wont ever happen
[01:36:41] <XXCoder> actually it WILL happen, just not programmically
[01:37:02] <XXCoder> once we have computers powerful enough to simulate entire human brain
[01:37:03] <XXCoder> done.
[01:37:19] <tiwake> wont happen
[01:37:23] <XXCoder> in fact, I would program it to "grow" till its peak age
[01:37:32] <tiwake> well, unless quantum computing happens I suppose
[01:37:36] <XXCoder> so it has more or less human brain
[01:38:01] <tiwake> it cant happen with simiconductors IMO
[01:38:20] <XXCoder> probably not. but then quantium is slowly moving on
[01:38:41] <tiwake> its a good 100 years off, give or take a little
[01:39:02] <tiwake> I'd bet money on fusion power systems before quantum computing
[01:39:04] <XXCoder> probably but same time..
[01:39:19] <XXCoder> I really hope iron man type fusion happens
[01:39:27] <tiwake> ha
[01:39:28] <XXCoder> compact and lasts darn long time
[01:39:37] <tiwake> not fusion
[01:40:03] <tiwake> I mean, the sun is not exactly the most compact thing out there
[01:40:06] <tiwake> lol
[01:40:39] <XXCoder> natural earth magnet was not compact either
[01:40:48] <XXCoder> and cant be switched on and off
[01:41:39] <tiwake> also, I just finished filling out this job application
[01:41:52] <XXCoder> yeah what jobs it for?
[01:42:02] <XXCoder> nuclear bomb inspector?
[01:42:08] <tiwake> machinist... at least it better be
[01:42:20] <XXCoder> some jobh title is very amgious
[01:42:29] <XXCoder> "metal shaper"
[01:42:36] <tiwake> heh, yeah...
[01:42:39] <XXCoder> you get a hammer. ;)
[01:43:24] <tiwake> a company who makes electric motors and machines for agg. and oil... namely various cotton processes
[01:43:36] <tiwake> cotton ginning
[01:43:44] <tiwake> XXCoder: http://www.lubbockelectric.com/
[01:44:07] <XXCoder> "almost everything is different, new and more difficult."
[01:44:09] <tiwake> evidently their senior machinist retired recently, or is going to retire soon
[01:44:23] <XXCoder> you now have 2 handled hammed, you have to use both hands
[01:44:42] <tiwake> what?
[01:44:52] <XXCoder> joke related to my earlier joke
[01:44:57] <XXCoder> *hammer
[01:45:15] <XXCoder> quotes from that site
[01:45:56] <tiwake> oh heh
[01:46:54] <XXCoder> so you hope to get that position
[01:47:25] <tiwake> not sure yet, but the talks seems promising so far
[01:48:10] <XXCoder> nice. :)
[01:48:26] <XXCoder> I do want to move to making gcode programs or cad
[01:48:29] <XXCoder> but not sure
[01:48:36] <tiwake> I'm not sure what the job actually is
[01:49:06] <tiwake> but after working as a oil changer for minimum wage when I have 10 years of machinist experience...
[01:52:53] <archivist> business owners paying the minimum wage are taking the piss
[01:52:53] <XXCoder> yeah
[01:53:00] <XXCoder> yeah
[01:53:23] <XXCoder> if I ever form company, I would start off $15 + living wage increase
[01:53:43] <tiwake> it depends I suppose
[01:53:56] <XXCoder> if I cant afford that I cant afford business
[01:54:05] <XXCoder> I won't profit off employees
[01:54:06] <tiwake> that is true too
[01:54:23] <roycroft> you need to profit off employees or you won't remain in business
[01:54:30] <roycroft> but you need to treat your employees well
[01:54:42] <roycroft> so don't profit too much :)
[01:54:52] <XXCoder> roycroft: yeah yeah what I meant is that I wont DEPEND on employees being lowly paid to make profit.
[01:55:01] <XXCoder> like walshit
[01:55:54] <archivist> and amazon
[01:56:11] <XXCoder> yeah they treat stock packers so bad :(
[01:56:21] <XXCoder> what other place can I shop besides amazon?
[01:56:51] <archivist> I would rather use ebay sellers than amazon
[01:58:19] <tiwake> lets buy everything from china
[01:59:16] <XXCoder> its impossible to be perfectly ethicial buyer with tech
[01:59:41] <XXCoder> on non tech stuff it is... hard
[02:00:07] <tiwake> certain ARM processors might be made in USA
[02:00:26] <archivist> ARM designed in UK
[02:00:44] <archivist> Acorn Risc Machines
[02:01:53] <tiwake> sorta
[02:02:15] <archivist> I had the misfortune to write a printer driver for Risc PC
[02:04:14] <tiwake> ARM just defines certain things... companies like AMD can do whatever they want
[02:06:38] <XXCoder> https://i.chzbgr.com/full/8241621248/hDA68430D/
[02:06:40] <XXCoder> nice
[02:07:51] <tiwake> that is pretty sweet
[02:08:04] <XXCoder> check out the position adjustor
[02:08:14] <XXCoder> it ensures its centered
[02:08:21] <tiwake> yeah
[02:20:02] <XXCoder> Argon enters a bar
[02:20:14] <XXCoder> barkeep says "we do not serve your kind here!"
[02:20:19] <XXCoder> Argon does not react.
[02:24:18] <miss0r> goodmorning
[02:24:29] <XXCoder> hey supermachinist
[02:24:53] <miss0r> I can hardly live up to that heh
[02:24:56] <tiwake> miss0r is a supermachinist?
[02:25:01] <XXCoder> why not?
[02:25:08] <tiwake> can I get his autograph?
[02:25:13] <miss0r> too rookie to be called so
[02:25:16] <tiwake> engraved on a hunk of aluminum
[02:25:31] <miss0r> tiwake: now that I CAN do :)
[02:25:43] <tiwake> see? supermachinist
[02:25:46] <miss0r> lol
[02:26:06] <XXCoder> ya know, that word looks like other, much less nice word.
[02:26:41] * miss0r is pondering what other word
[02:27:13] <tiwake> I'm kinda wondering now too
[02:27:15] <miss0r> XXCoder: What time is it where you are?
[02:27:22] <tiwake> midnight here
[02:27:34] <XXCoder> 12 am
[02:28:00] <miss0r> Is that noon or midnight? (I never can seem to remember)
[02:28:16] <tiwake> midnight
[02:28:20] <XXCoder> when dark things bump
[02:28:22] <tiwake> so XXCoder is in my timezone
[02:28:27] <XXCoder> indeed
[02:28:31] <tiwake> where at?
[02:28:34] <miss0r> alrighty then :)
[02:28:55] <XXCoder> if I go west for a hour in car, I'd be driving in bottom of inlet sea lol
[02:28:58] <XXCoder> tacoma, wa
[02:29:00] <miss0r> in that case it is ) 9 pm here
[02:29:08] <tiwake> ah ok
[02:29:13] <tiwake> tillamook oregon
[02:29:26] <XXCoder> we used to be much closer lol i used to live at vancouver wa
[02:29:41] <miss0r> In a few hours proper metric people will start to sign in ;)
[02:29:47] <tiwake> I'm going to be moving ~2k miles away, so whatever XD
[02:30:08] <XXCoder> man why do we slowly get more and distant
[02:30:11] <XXCoder> XD
[02:30:25] <miss0r> you feel eachother slipping away? :)
[02:30:34] <miss0r> tiwake: what equipment do you have in your shop ?
[02:30:39] <tiwake> with the magic of the internet, we can be as close as we want <3
[02:30:55] <tiwake> miss0r: I don't work in a machine shop at the moment
[02:31:30] <tiwake> but enh... the fanciest thing I've done is on a C-axis lathe
[02:31:33] <Deejay> moin
[02:31:47] <XXCoder> so far, 5 axis cnc lol
[02:31:52] <miss0r> Deejay: 'mornin
[02:31:58] <tiwake> I'd like to get ahold of a 5axis machine and make something amazing
[02:31:59] <miss0r> tiwake: not having a shop must be killing you?
[02:32:07] <XXCoder> though I did nothing more complex than basic tool maintance and just running. no setup or anything
[02:32:12] <Deejay> good morning, gents
[02:32:16] <tiwake> like a solid aluminum my little pony model or something
[02:32:23] <miss0r> I have a partially complete 5-axis mini mill project you can have :)
[02:32:25] <tiwake> :D
[02:32:27] <XXCoder> tiwake: yeah I'd love my own 5 axis!
[02:32:54] <XXCoder> make that fancy Ti crown like that demo video LOL
[02:32:58] <tiwake> miss0r: it really is... 3 months of withdrawal
[02:33:21] <tiwake> if things go well, I will have a decent job in texas in a machine shop
[02:33:32] <tiwake> or business that has their own machine shop
[02:33:45] <miss0r> XXCoder: Do the hermle demo :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EE50AfPbzs
[02:33:59] <XXCoder> watching
[02:35:00] <miss0r> tiwake: I've always wanted to live doing work in my own shop. At the moment I have a fulltime job as an electrician, while running my shop. hoping the workload will pile up, so I need to go fulltime in my shop and quit my dayjob
[02:36:43] <tiwake> XXCoder: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ui1szqbvehldvff/IMG-20160617-WA0005.jpeg?dl=0 from a wood shop, I know the owner, and thats one of his personal projects
[02:36:58] <archivist> waiting for work to come in is painful
[02:37:49] <miss0r> archivist: yeah well, it won't be much different than my dayjob. only i'll be my own boss
[02:38:10] <XXCoder> miss0r: being your own boss can be best or worse thing to happen
[02:38:15] <XXCoder> miss0r: that video dang
[02:39:02] <XXCoder> tiwake: hmm whats with weird tabs
[02:39:09] <XXCoder> I take guy is fan of that show too
[02:39:16] <miss0r> XXCoder: I friend of mine works milling plastic molds for hearing aids. They did a 1:2 scale model of that shoe on one of their mills :)
[02:39:25] <tiwake> XXCoder: its a layer of MDF sheet
[02:39:37] <tiwake> there is like 3 or 4 layers to make that half
[02:39:47] <XXCoder> ahh
[02:40:16] <tiwake> 4 layers it looks like
[02:40:42] <XXCoder> abusing cnc https://youtu.be/W6gwHmEg6Yo
[02:41:07] <XXCoder> thats millions dollar can opener
[02:41:54] <tiwake> heh
[02:42:00] <XXCoder> it slices and (probably) dices!
[02:42:47] <miss0r> damn... I wish my mill was clean enough to handle food :)
[02:44:10] <tiwake> XXCoder: I confess, I am a fan of it too :-x
[02:44:15] <miss0r> I actualy found a granite surface plade (din876/0) measuering 400x500x75 mm for only $250 brand new. I think I will get one now :)
[02:44:52] <XXCoder> thats decet
[02:45:04] <XXCoder> I do want a small Surface to do small stuff
[02:45:08] <tiwake> XXCoder: http://fav.me/d69e85y
[02:45:39] <XXCoder> tiwake: I do want to build a small probe so i can play with curved surfaces.
[02:46:59] <miss0r> XXCoder: that sounds like a funny build. How are you planning to go about it?
[02:47:15] <XXCoder> dunno yet
[02:47:24] <XXCoder> though I am thinking stacked build with my router
[02:47:32] <XXCoder> cut all parts out of single sheet of plastic
[02:48:22] <miss0r> like a 'dot' or a 'drag' probe?
[02:48:38] <XXCoder> hmm good question whats difference?
[02:50:12] <miss0r> i'm not sure if thoes are the correct terms in english. but; a dot probe touches down on alot of coordinates and sends the height to the pc, whereas the drag probe runs the surface in a mesh, never letting go - sending ALOT of height measurements
[02:50:23] <XXCoder> ahh
[02:50:30] <XXCoder> its definitely "dot" type
[02:50:36] <XXCoder> easiest one can be made
[02:50:51] <miss0r> indeed, alot less work must go into the dot probe
[02:51:05] <tiwake> can that be done with linuxCNC?
[02:51:21] <XXCoder> should be
[02:51:23] <archivist> yes
[02:51:25] <XXCoder> just need some pin
[02:51:38] <miss0r> I seem to recall seeing a plugin that handles that
[02:51:42] <tiwake> building the surface profile
[02:51:47] <XXCoder> miss0r: http://picpaste.com/pics/ziixI2O-lhxjNr5d.1467530683.png
[02:52:42] <miss0r> XXCoder: Wouldn't it be easier doing the housing on a lathe?
[02:52:49] <XXCoder> it would be yes
[02:53:14] <archivist> there other type of probe has strain gauges( or lvdt) so it can measure continuously
[02:53:34] <archivist> lathe is essential
[02:54:11] <XXCoder> more abuse! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZVInv5GmgQ
[02:54:28] <tiwake> I'm going to bed
[02:54:33] <XXCoder> night
[02:54:36] <miss0r> two of them are called Andreas(my name) - this can only end badle
[02:54:43] <miss0r> tiwake: nite
[02:56:13] <tiwake> alright, now I'm in bed
[02:56:27] <tiwake> with my laptop \o/
[02:56:40] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=422T2VNI5OI oh brother
[02:56:49] <XXCoder> in least its not million buck machine lol
[02:57:29] <miss0r> it scares me that people do this stuff
[02:58:25] <XXCoder> nuts one is crazy
[02:58:31] <XXCoder> as easily be finger there
[03:00:18] <tiwake> enh
[03:00:29] <tiwake> better than a torture chamber
[03:01:03] <archivist> see example daisy.ngc in linuxcnc
[03:01:10] <XXCoder> saw it
[03:02:49] <tiwake> miss0r: whats the most complicated thing you have made?
[03:03:08] <miss0r> tiwake: that would have to be the 5-axis cnc mill :)
[03:03:23] <tiwake> oh you made it?
[03:03:29] <XXCoder> whats undone about it
[03:03:30] <miss0r> well - almost :)
[03:03:48] <miss0r> the z mount and the controls are not done
[03:03:54] <tiwake> picture or it didnt happen
[03:04:28] <miss0r> meh... I can take a picture of the pile in the bottom of the closet it sits in, if that suits your fancy?
[03:04:37] <XXCoder> I am considering grinding something on glass plate I bought for that
[03:04:46] <XXCoder> not sure what to engrave though
[03:04:49] <tiwake> ha, called it, it does not actually exist
[03:04:55] <tiwake> XD
[03:05:23] <miss0r> tiwake: thats it, i'll take a photo. hang on
[03:05:32] <tiwake> hehe
[03:05:47] <miss0r> give me a few moments to stack it together on the workbench
[03:06:28] <tiwake> miss0r: you know you are setting yourself up for when I go to build a machine for myself...
[03:06:58] <miss0r> i'm not sure i'm suited for that. I never completed this, you know
[03:07:22] <tiwake> XD
[03:08:36] <archivist> my 5 axis cuts metal :)
[03:11:30] <miss0r> tiwake: right: this is where the project stalled: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B51cA8Udo5i7LVhrX0xBdUVEVE0
[03:11:45] <miss0r> archivist: Do you have a pic?
[03:12:05] <XXCoder> interesting
[03:12:19] <tiwake> miss0r: oh, you are machining it yourself too... nice
[03:12:35] <miss0r> tiwake: With your permission, I would like to put it back the the closet and forget about it again :)
[03:12:36] <tiwake> 3 axis in the spindle head?
[03:12:49] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2009/2009_05_21_cnc/IMG_0246.JPG
[03:13:24] <tiwake> miss0r: I suppose you may... lol
[03:13:26] <miss0r> 3 axis in the table and two axis in the spindle
[03:13:41] <tiwake> oh alright
[03:13:58] <tiwake> oh those are linear bearings.. derp
[03:14:34] <miss0r> tiwake: Unfortunatly - when I started building this, I had nowhere near the skills I have now(still a rookie, mind you), so I would feel like redoing the intiere thing over again, when I decide to complete it
[03:14:38] <miss0r> archivist: looks nice
[03:14:46] <archivist> it's fugly
[03:15:08] <miss0r> archivist: indeed. that translates to nice in my mind
[03:15:23] <archivist> is morphing again to a better B
[03:15:50] <XXCoder> https://youtu.be/ehL6ZPnrHvI weird
[03:16:09] <miss0r> tiwake: sure i'm machining the parts myself. how else would you go about it? (if some precision is to be reached) ?
[03:16:28] <tiwake> this is true
[03:16:52] <tiwake> 80/20 frames are popular
[03:17:03] <XXCoder> indeed
[03:17:21] <miss0r> tiwake: yeah, I guess that is 'OK' for routers'n stuff, but other than that i dunno
[03:17:36] <XXCoder> avoid using imprecise end cuts and you get basically "free" fairly good surface
[03:18:15] <miss0r> tiwake: when I started building this, all I had was a manual mill, and a chinese 3020 cnc router (with quite poor acuracy). now that I have some proper equipment I would have to do it over to be sure it is precise
[03:18:38] <tiwake> you couldent do it with a manual mill?
[03:18:58] <miss0r> tiwake: Sure, but there are some things that I would like to do in a different manner with a CNC
[03:19:10] <miss0r> for example: I didn't have a rotary table back then
[03:20:20] <miss0r> so the pivot mounts on the rotary table (on the 5-axis mill here) are made on the chinese cnc, with a very poor result. I would have to redo thoes. Same goes for the bearing mounts on the table itself
[03:20:37] <tiwake> gotcha
[03:21:22] <miss0r> but the frame seems to tolerence, atleast thats what I thought back then. I can't be bothered to do measurements on it now :) I realy don't plan on finishing it. You can have it if you want :D (postage would kill you)
[03:21:29] <tiwake> where I used to work had the ability to make stuff like that... the guy had a manual mill attachment rotary table
[03:21:40] <tiwake> actually a couple of them
[03:21:52] <miss0r> I have one thoes now. so it wouldn't be a problem.
[03:22:50] <tiwake> alright, I just emailed off my job application
[03:22:56] <miss0r> good luck
[03:23:03] <XXCoder> indeed. good luck
[03:23:07] <tiwake> no such thing
[03:23:29] <miss0r> I call bullshit on that one ;)
[03:23:34] <tiwake> pfff
[03:24:13] <tiwake> luck is just another word for skill... the more skill you have the more "lucky" you get
[03:25:11] <miss0r> unless you have a foreign name :)
[03:25:29] <XXCoder> there is many factors actually
[03:25:29] <tiwake> ..?
[03:25:42] <XXCoder> maybe reader is pissed off anbd sees single typo, throws application away
[03:25:53] <XXCoder> maybe reader hates oregon state
[03:25:57] <tiwake> oh
[03:26:23] <tiwake> no, he said he hired a guy from oregon before already, and that the guy worked out for them
[03:26:29] <tiwake> :P
[03:26:45] <XXCoder> you alter probility with more skills and so on, but there is always in least small amount of randomness
[03:27:14] <XXCoder> I heard of one guy having 2 great applications and interviews, guy just flipped a coin
[03:27:36] <tiwake> lol
[03:27:51] <tiwake> sounds like that guy needed to dig deeper with his interviewing
[03:28:02] <XXCoder> if you are indeed skilled, its their loss if not hire
[03:28:21] <tiwake> personality type, more casual conversations, etc.
[03:28:39] <tiwake> XXCoder: http://tiwake.com/Walter%20Neary%20resume%202016.pdf
[03:28:40] <XXCoder> yeah, usually one is better pick
[03:30:07] <XXCoder> nice resume
[03:30:14] <XXCoder> too bad I dont have job to offer lol
[03:30:20] <tiwake> :D
[03:30:23] <tiwake> neh
[03:30:28] <tiwake> you are in the wrong state
[03:30:36] <miss0r> I wonder what is wrong with my coldsaw... it does horrible chatter while cutting large diameter stuff. Any ideas?
[03:31:29] <tiwake> miss0r: it needs more ponies and friendship
[03:31:52] <XXCoder> never really used a coldsaw
[03:33:00] <tiwake> likewise
[03:33:01] <miss0r> tiwake: hmm.. I always thought we had a sortof 'rough love' relationship
[03:33:14] <XXCoder> ah bsdm
[03:33:26] <tiwake> kinky
[03:33:35] <tiwake> never knew I had it in me
[03:33:38] <somenewguy> large diamter bar or tube?
[03:33:48] <miss0r> somenewguy: bar
[03:34:07] <somenewguy> i got nothing lol
[03:34:21] <somenewguy> the motor having trouble keeping up?
[03:34:24] <miss0r> heh :)
[03:34:47] <miss0r> nope. and the blade is brand new (I changed the old one thing that might be it)
[03:35:08] <tiwake> push harder?
[03:35:11] <miss0r> but thoes blades are ~$200 a pop, so yeah
[03:35:17] <miss0r> tiwake: makes it worse
[03:35:32] <XXCoder> does coldsaw need cutting oil of some kind?
[03:35:42] <tiwake> XXCoder: normally, yeah
[03:35:58] <miss0r> XXCoder: Yeah. this one has floor coolant
[03:36:02] <XXCoder> ok
[03:36:04] <tiwake> never heard of one that didnt
[03:36:18] <miss0r> me neither. then it is not a coldsaw anymore
[03:36:21] <XXCoder> miss0r: part shifting around while its not cut
[03:36:27] <XXCoder> ?
[03:36:38] <XXCoder> *while its cut
[03:37:15] <miss0r> I sure hope not :) nah... its clamped in there good
[03:37:44] <tiwake> XXCoder: yeah, my resume is a really solid one... I just get the feeling that most companies don't want to think about me because I live 2k miles away
[03:37:57] <XXCoder> miss0r: blade has some sort of torsoner?
[03:38:07] <XXCoder> either for flex side to side or up and down
[03:38:10] <miss0r> torsoner?
[03:38:18] <XXCoder> not sure if correct word
[03:38:34] <miss0r> explain the word to me :)
[03:38:34] <XXCoder> makes blade tight and dont move in incorrect way
[03:38:54] <XXCoder> meaning it rotates to cut but it dont move side to side or up and downb
[03:39:15] <miss0r> it almost sounds like you are thinking of a band saw?
[03:39:40] <XXCoder> ah yes
[03:39:48] <XXCoder> I pictured it wrong lol
[03:40:20] <XXCoder> though it does give me ponental possible issues
[03:40:30] <XXCoder> miss0r: is it flat in respect to rotation?
[03:40:36] <tiwake> XXCoder: I submitted my resume to a few hiring agencies, have not heard back from any of them... one shop I called said "come in and fill out a job application" and would not change their position after explaining that I could not just 'swing by'
[03:40:47] <XXCoder> tiwake: sucks
[03:41:02] <miss0r> This is the model I have: https://www.google.dk/search?q=thomas+350+super+technics+parts&espv=2&biw=1349&bih=675&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiun6Df7NbNAhUB_iwKHTGkDhkQ_AUIBigB#tbm=isch&q=thomas+350+super+technics&imgrc=W5iZNjKmCDP5OM%3A
[03:41:08] <XXCoder> tiwake: maybe have a application "holiday" at texas
[03:41:14] <tiwake> XXCoder: but this company lubbock electric seems really positive
[03:41:18] <miss0r> althou that says 250- and I have a 350
[03:41:21] <XXCoder> 3 days of rapid road trip, appling jobs
[03:41:32] <tiwake> XXCoder: I'm too broke from owning my own business and working minimum wage
[03:42:07] <XXCoder> yeah amd 2,000 mile is quite nasty for car trip. plane and renting car is cheaper but still in thousand in least
[03:42:26] <XXCoder> miss0r: is saw flat in respect to its rotation surface?
[03:42:51] <XXCoder> miss0r: meaning it does not move in and out as it rotates (use dial indictor on one location and just hand rotate saw)
[03:43:05] <XXCoder> dunno if that makes that much difference but it might do
[03:43:31] <miss0r> ahh I understand your question. I did do that measurements with a dial the other day. hardly any runout
[03:43:47] <tiwake> XXCoder: from owning my own business I made quite a bit less than minimum wage, last year worked a lot more hours and made even less
[03:43:49] <XXCoder> duh runout
[03:44:09] <XXCoder> I suck with knowing professional related words. :(
[03:44:15] <tiwake> I blame the other two owners lol
[03:44:27] <XXCoder> tiwake: so why not more local job
[03:44:33] <tiwake> screw oregon
[03:44:44] <XXCoder> yeah move a lil bit north lol
[03:45:03] <tiwake> washington? its almost as bad
[03:45:08] <tiwake> canada is worse
[03:45:15] <XXCoder> honestly if they are seriously considering you you will be fine
[03:45:27] <tiwake> well
[03:45:41] <tiwake> if I just show up, I could get a job
[03:45:59] <tiwake> thing is I need a decently paying job, esp. with my skill sets
[03:46:19] <tiwake> so more planning than 'just showing up'
[03:46:37] <tiwake> we will see when tuesday comes around
[03:46:43] <XXCoder> indeed
[03:47:32] <tiwake> then again just showing up has more shock and awe effect
[03:47:52] <tiwake> with some of the various complicated parts I've made in the past
[03:48:09] <XXCoder> indeed, nothing like evidence to really push it home
[03:48:46] <tiwake> I have a good feeling about lubbock electric though :3
[03:51:27] <tiwake> I wonder if I could talk a farmer into letting me build a rocket engine testing facility
[03:51:58] <XXCoder> I did read about scramjet made from termal metal mug
[03:52:02] <XXCoder> tall one
[03:52:19] <somenewguy> well didn't they mothball that SLS test pad that was mostly done? maybe thats ur opening
[03:52:45] <tiwake> what?
[03:54:06] <XXCoder> found it
[03:54:08] <XXCoder> tiwake: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUJP5Jh9_Bg
[03:54:43] <tiwake> oh a ramjet engine
[03:54:49] <XXCoder> yeah used wrong name
[03:55:12] <tiwake> ramjet engines are kinda interesting
[03:55:23] <tiwake> same with pulsejet
[03:55:26] <XXCoder> found it!
[03:55:30] <XXCoder> one I orginially read
[03:55:31] <XXCoder> http://www.cottrillcyclodyne.com/Maggie_Muggs/Maggie.html
[03:55:32] <tiwake> not terribly useful
[03:55:49] <XXCoder> so 00s
[03:57:03] <XXCoder> that site is more detailed AND it makes better ramjet
[04:00:11] <tiwake> meh
[04:00:14] <tiwake> too small
[04:00:26] <XXCoder> yeah can run at home though lol
[04:00:31] <tiwake> I want 1000lbs of thrust or more :P
[04:01:26] <tiwake> I wonder what lbs of thrust would compare to for engine horsepower
[04:01:59] <toastydeath> they're not comparable
[04:02:31] <tiwake> right
[04:02:54] <tiwake> but approximations could be made at some level
[04:03:15] <toastydeath> no, they're fundamentally different units of measurement, like you can't compare meters and kelvin
[04:04:11] <tiwake> take a car engine, run it a quarter mile, take the engine off and put a rocket engine in and run it a quarter mile
[04:05:43] <tiwake> the speed curves would be different I'd imagine, but it would still be an interesting comparison
[04:06:00] <XXCoder> or simply how much N force it can extert
[04:06:41] <tiwake> XXCoder: that would vary depending on its current speed though I think, and gear ratio
[04:06:44] <toastydeath> right, you can compare a specific system to another specific system - my point is just that without knowing other engine parameters
[04:06:52] <toastydeath> you can't compare theoertical designs
[04:07:18] <XXCoder> amn in-season grape tomoto is yummy
[04:07:22] <XXCoder> damn
[04:10:09] <tiwake> toastydeath: it would give me an approximation as to how big of a rocket engine I need if I want to go 50% faster :D
[04:12:20] <tiwake> actually, how fast a rocket car would go after a quarter mile run could be calculated relatively easily
[04:12:54] <somenewguy> power is power, you just gotta put it somewhere lol
[04:13:16] <tiwake> somenewguy: as long as it does not make it to the head
[04:13:20] <somenewguy> ok that sentences isn't scientifilcy perfect but its 5 am, forgive me
[04:15:49] <somenewguy> although mostly I'm distracted watching sharktopus
[04:16:06] <tiwake> somenewguy: when has language been scientifically perfect?
[04:16:57] <XXCoder> english (and most languages) is not regular language
[04:17:10] <tiwake> regular?
[04:17:14] <somenewguy> I'm using that as my defense from now on
[04:17:24] <tiwake> somenewguy: lol
[04:17:34] <XXCoder> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regular_language
[04:18:14] <tiwake> XXCoder: oh, regular expressions
[04:18:23] <XXCoder> thats just basis of it
[04:18:33] <tiwake> strictly typed?
[04:18:56] <tiwake> meh, I'm just a self taught programmer, I don't know what the names are for everything I do :P
[04:19:11] <XXCoder> I went all way to BS in CS
[04:19:21] <XXCoder> no wodner its called B.S. bullshit eh
[04:19:51] <tiwake> I got half way to a mechanical engineering degree and jumped out... heh
[04:19:53] <XXCoder> If there is ever country that starts something like boat or whatever with B.S. I will name it B.S. Bullshit
[04:25:00] <tiwake> XXCoder: do you want a project lathe?
[04:25:03] <tiwake> for cheap
[04:25:10] <tiwake> but well built
[04:25:20] <tiwake> local pickup only
[04:25:20] <XXCoder> nah, no room :) thanks though
[04:25:35] <XXCoder> unless it really is quite small
[04:26:11] * archivist would jump at it
[04:26:17] <tiwake> old hardinge CNC lathe that needs a controller
[04:26:40] <tiwake> air chuck
[04:26:49] <tiwake> 5C collet
[04:27:05] <XXCoder> something like http://berksprecisionmachine.com/documents/IMG_2167.jpg ?
[04:27:17] <tiwake> no, older
[04:27:32] <tiwake> gang tooling
[04:27:34] <XXCoder> http://www.centroidcnc.com/images/hardinge_retrofit_new_600.jpg
[04:27:44] <tiwake> yeah
[04:27:50] <tiwake> that
[04:28:31] <XXCoder> interesting looking lathe
[04:28:53] <archivist> ready for linuxcnc
[04:28:56] <tiwake> I really really want to buy it, but no place for it and moving and ultra broke
[04:29:06] <XXCoder> bring?
[04:29:30] <tiwake> he was going to sell it to me for $500
[04:29:39] <tiwake> all the parts are there
[04:31:01] <tiwake> ugh
[04:31:08] <XXCoder> nice deal just dont have room and all that :)
[04:31:27] <tiwake> another reason to be PO'd about the last job I had
[04:32:20] <tiwake> that place was so incorrectly managed I couldent even save it
[04:32:43] <XXCoder> if you are paid less than min wage it was badly managed.
[04:33:07] <XXCoder> maybe they forgot to account machine time or whatever?
[04:33:15] <tiwake> three owners and 6 years later it has never been able to pay for all of its owners
[04:34:22] <tiwake> was not there for the first 4 years, but I worked with the guy for 4 years before that
[04:34:31] <tiwake> I didnt think he was literally that bad
[04:34:40] <tiwake> leh sigh
[04:34:45] <XXCoder> can have great machinist but bad business sense
[04:35:27] <XXCoder> my family apparently has tradition for businesses heh
[04:35:27] <tiwake> meh, he isnt even a good machinist, cant problem solve hardly at all, nor has the patience to even try
[04:36:16] <tiwake> he is a good machine operator... heh
[04:36:42] <XXCoder> lol
[04:37:13] <tiwake> he shoved all the time consuming braining stuff on me and then complained about how long everything was taking me to do
[04:37:33] <tiwake> oh well
[04:38:44] <XXCoder> yeah
[04:38:58] <tiwake> learned a butt ton of stuff, including what marriage means, even though I don't have any direct experience with it
[04:39:05] <tiwake> :D
[04:39:10] <XXCoder> lol
[04:39:12] <XXCoder> single eh
[04:39:22] <tiwake> pff yeah
[04:39:25] <XXCoder> same
[04:40:06] <tiwake> why is nobody else talking?
[04:40:18] <tiwake> bunch of peons
[04:40:32] <XXCoder> this time is time of silence basically
[04:40:39] <XXCoder> 1 am to around 4 am
[04:41:09] <tiwake> a time of mourning, of self misery
[04:41:34] <XXCoder> and witching hour lol
[04:42:49] <tiwake> XXCoder: how old are you?
[04:42:54] <XXCoder> 40
[04:43:05] <tiwake> you got 10 years on me
[04:43:16] <XXCoder> cool
[04:43:24] <tiwake> heh
[04:43:35] <XXCoder> honestly I dont really care about age
[04:43:39] <XXCoder> except 42 lol
[04:43:46] <tiwake> <3
[04:43:56] <tiwake> still 23
[04:44:11] <XXCoder> I'm barely old enough to could have watched first star wars in screen
[04:44:25] <XXCoder> though as one year old I'd have not benefited
[04:46:42] <tiwake> XXCoder: this is how I found that job http://tiwake.com/snapshot42.png
[04:47:21] <XXCoder> nice
[04:47:33] <tiwake> not much to go off of
[04:47:39] <XXCoder> indeed
[04:48:02] <XXCoder> says must have your own tools
[04:48:15] <XXCoder> hopefully it does not include $600 one inch endmill thats foot long
[04:48:28] <tiwake> "enh, dont know anything about the company, and they want me to apply in person..."
[04:48:39] <tiwake> "screw it, I'm calling them anyway"
[04:49:09] <tiwake> yeah, no kidding
[04:49:15] <tiwake> though
[04:49:45] <XXCoder> I like tools I have at work
[04:49:56] <XXCoder> mityoyo does make good stuff
[04:50:03] <XXCoder> though they suck on dial test inductor
[04:50:06] <XXCoder> indictor
[04:50:46] <tiwake> XXCoder: when I first was written in as 1/3 owner for DK Precision, the only way I could convince the guy that a different tooling configuration was better was to spend $100 of my own money to buy a nicer cob endmill
[04:51:26] <tiwake> sped up the process of those parts by a fair bit, and increased the tool life several times over
[04:51:54] <XXCoder> there is pretty lot tricks to prolong tool life
[04:52:02] <XXCoder> one of em is 2 tools to do same thing
[04:52:11] <XXCoder> first takes the brunt and second clean up
[04:52:12] <tiwake> I don't like being called an owner but not treated as one
[04:52:54] <XXCoder> means first tool can take quite a lot of beating before have to replace, and I use tool 2 as replacement for tool 1, and new one as new tool 2
[04:53:03] <tiwake> oh yeah, for sure
[04:53:24] <tiwake> depending on the part
[04:53:28] <XXCoder> yeah
[04:53:38] <XXCoder> it works a treat on fiberglass job
[04:53:52] <XXCoder> single tool it breaks each 2 or 3 jobs
[04:53:53] <tiwake> you can turn fiberglass?
[04:54:00] <XXCoder> mill yea lol
[04:54:11] <tiwake> how well does that work?
[04:54:28] <XXCoder> 2 tools? it lasts quite a long time, even though second tool loses .001" each part lol
[04:54:31] <tiwake> sounds awful
[04:54:39] <XXCoder> no shit it fucking sucks
[04:54:59] <XXCoder> made worse than .001" thickness requirement. it cant be cut that accurately
[04:55:05] <XXCoder> so we have to sand em all down
[04:55:15] <tiwake> tooling designed for titanium might work well
[04:55:36] <XXCoder> probably but that pair is 3 inches long and are quite thin
[04:56:23] <tiwake> I think the most interesting material I've turned is magnesium
[04:56:33] <XXCoder> ohhhh
[04:56:38] <tiwake> after hours is fun too :D
[04:56:48] <XXCoder> it can go so badly, that
[04:57:04] <tiwake> when you get to take the chips out and burn them
[04:57:12] <XXCoder> lol nice
[04:57:30] <XXCoder> I guess TONS of coolant to keep it not sparking eh
[04:57:42] <tiwake> neh, no sparks
[04:57:57] <tiwake> actually the coolant was reacting with the magnesium
[04:58:09] <tiwake> lol
[04:58:28] <XXCoder> how was it reacting?
[04:58:32] <tiwake> I could tell the chips in the bottom of the machine were getting hotter sitting there
[05:00:32] <tiwake> was a little scary to me, pulled the chips out and set them out to dry in a safer place
[05:00:48] <XXCoder> got idea
[05:00:58] <XXCoder> coolant/magesium power reactor ;)
[05:01:10] <tiwake> though I don't think it would have reacted that much, thinking back on it
[05:01:26] <tiwake> buuuut donno
[05:01:37] <tiwake> possibly, if it was left overnight
[05:01:39] <XXCoder> better be safe, expecially magnesium reacting
[05:01:45] <tiwake> jep
[05:02:27] <XXCoder> common metal we run here is inocel
[05:02:33] <tiwake> ouch
[05:02:35] <XXCoder> bastard of a metal, that
[05:02:44] <tiwake> yeah, I'm aware
[05:02:55] <XXCoder> others is aluminium and titanium
[05:03:01] <tiwake> though I have not had the pleasure of working with it
[05:03:05] <XXCoder> other quite rare jobs that use plastics
[05:03:32] <XXCoder> and 3 parts fiberglass, I hope they decide to bump THAT to some other company or whatever
[05:03:38] <XXCoder> because fuck that
[05:03:40] <tiwake> made some rocket engine injectors out of this special brass stuff that was impossible to machine
[05:03:49] <tiwake> don't remember the name
[05:04:12] <XXCoder> couple brass types here too, one guy cant run em as he is SERIOUSLY allegric to it
[05:04:27] <tiwake> because of the copper content?
[05:04:27] <XXCoder> he cant even run machine within 20 feet of it
[05:04:46] <tiwake> its rather common to be allergic to copper
[05:04:47] <XXCoder> possible. there is also alloy that looks like brass but has nickel
[05:04:59] <XXCoder> that ones bit odd one
[05:05:03] <tiwake> and typical brass is like 60% copper
[05:05:10] <XXCoder> never ran that as it was all lathe parts
[05:06:08] <tiwake> I've had people ask for "parts made out of steel"... alright then, 12L14 for you :D
[05:06:31] <XXCoder> unfortunately I dont understand metal ratings
[05:06:59] <XXCoder> oh and worse bastard metal I saw being ran?
[05:07:01] <tiwake> 12L14 is seriously the nicest iron based alloy to machine
[05:07:05] <XXCoder> baked inocel
[05:10:02] <tiwake> its about as nice to machine as the free machining brass
[05:10:24] <XXCoder> heh you will evenually get to experence inocel
[05:10:28] <XXCoder> its very hard to lathe too
[05:10:35] <XXCoder> I rarely run lathe but jeez
[05:10:45] <tiwake> you will never get me!
[05:10:52] <XXCoder> tools last better but parts are slightly varied because it wears tools
[05:11:09] <XXCoder> can still do .0005+-
[05:11:09] <tiwake> actually I might, because its relatively common to use it for rocket engine nozzles
[05:11:48] <tiwake> XXCoder: http://tiwake.com/rocket.pdf
[05:12:03] <XXCoder> in all engraving tool (tool lasts only 40 parts lol and just engrave!) inocel jobs we have to sort parts into 1/2s (.0005) so tool dont break
[05:12:39] <XXCoder> nice. you know far more than me on designing
[05:12:59] <XXCoder> I have launched many space probes and spaceships to orbit and behind though lol
[05:13:08] <tiwake> machining is something that I use to support all of my hobbies
[05:13:11] <XXCoder> (kerbal space program REALLY teaches you about orbiting!)
[05:14:13] <tiwake> that hybrid engine design I think will work well, and is a very very simple design to be able to throttle the engine
[05:16:06] <tiwake> I guess the point is that I know about inocel because of my hobby... and have actively avoided it
[05:16:30] <XXCoder> lathes have bit easier time of it
[05:16:32] <XXCoder> but yeah
[05:16:48] <tiwake> I think I'd rather try alumina ceramic nozzle than inocel
[05:16:48] <XXCoder> now, BAKED inocel...
[05:17:25] <tiwake> XXCoder: have you tried using a grinder on inocel?
[05:17:33] <XXCoder> nah dont use grinders
[05:17:46] <XXCoder> I do wish they would pony up for cermic cutters
[05:18:02] <XXCoder> those cools cannot be cooled as it gets stronger the hotter it is
[05:18:14] <XXCoder> and it would explode if it touched coolant
[05:18:20] <tiwake> ah
[05:18:29] <XXCoder> but damn it'd be perfect for rough cutting
[05:19:02] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1K5QjR3hyU
[05:19:07] <XXCoder> looki nat it spark
[05:19:10] <tiwake> what kind of speed and feed do you typically run it on?
[05:19:18] <XXCoder> dunno lol
[05:19:24] <XXCoder> engraving its quite sol
[05:19:26] <XXCoder> slow
[05:19:59] <XXCoder> I love that glow lol
[05:21:17] <tiwake> yeah lol.. cant imagine the tool lasting very long
[05:21:28] <XXCoder> cermtic is quite different
[05:21:45] <XXCoder> mere mortal metal tools without coolant would already be destroyed by few passes
[05:23:02] <XXCoder> "Cut cycle time down by 6 hrs a part by switching from carbide to ceramic."
[05:23:05] <tiwake> I wonder how well amorphous metal would machine
[05:23:44] <XXCoder> dunno
[05:23:52] <XXCoder> its more brittle if I recall
[05:23:58] <XXCoder> though very strong?
[05:24:16] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n2w868R9v0 more inocel cutting with ceremtic tools
[05:25:59] <tiwake> why are you even working with inocel to begin with? lol
[05:26:00] <XXCoder> jeez that parts complex. no way can use carbide to last that long
[05:26:16] <XXCoder> boeing plane parts
[05:26:33] <XXCoder> its parts that go in hell areas, heavy chemicals heat, so on
[05:26:52] <tiwake> yeah
[05:28:45] <XXCoder> heh imange this
[05:29:07] <XXCoder> little weird washer, over inch dia
[05:29:12] <XXCoder> over $75 each
[05:31:43] <XXCoder> and typical day I engrave 300 of those
[05:40:01] <XXCoder> tiwake: its boring jobs thats money for company
[06:01:58] <miss0r> yay. I just scraped my first surface. it turned out quite flat actualy :).. it does not look all nice and tidy like when the prof do it, thou
[06:02:37] <XXCoder> nice
[06:02:55] <miss0r> I think I maybe need better tools for the job
[06:03:13] <archivist> or more practice
[06:03:17] * archivist ducks
[06:03:34] <miss0r> no, you are right.
[06:03:47] <miss0r> This is a pretty serious skill. and I just begon
[06:04:31] <miss0r> I'm out. see you
[09:14:18] <os1r1s> Anyone try one of these? http://www.aliexpress.com/item/66A-CNC-Tool-Presetter-Automatic-tool-setting-gauge-for-mach3-etc-tool-sensor-for-Z-axis/32351202135.html?spm=2114.01010208.8.37.CJNYFT
[09:15:33] <archivist> one expensive microswitch
[09:16:48] <Tom_itx> must be a really good one
[09:17:17] <archivist> in a shiny box
[09:17:18] <Tom_itx> ahh i see why
[09:17:23] * Loetmichel just eats waaaay to much mini-babybel (cheese enclosed in wax)... thats the sixth candle i make of the wraps... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16342&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 (the wick is made of rolled up kitchen paper towel btw)
[09:17:37] <Tom_itx> it says mach3 in the description...
[09:17:43] <archivist> hehe
[09:18:03] <os1r1s> I discard the mach3 part :)
[09:18:30] <archivist> there are other versions of the same idea
[09:18:45] <Tom_itx> i considered making one like that myself once though but from a 'real' tool setting tool
[09:18:55] <Tom_itx> those that have the led built in
[09:19:07] <os1r1s> I was looking at the tormach one, but its $800
[09:19:13] <os1r1s> And was hoping for cheaper :)
[09:19:29] <os1r1s> I am happy to see suggestions/lnks
[09:19:40] <archivist> I dont like the idea of those killing the edge on the tool
[09:19:44] <Tom_itx> http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/272115992637?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true
[09:20:06] <Tom_itx> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CAT-40-Magnetic-Z-Axis-Tool-Pre-Setter-Reapability-0004/282069979588?_trksid=p2141725.c100337.m3725&_trkparms=aid%3D777000%26algo%3DABA.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20141212152338%26meid%3D8987af8eb6564fcdb86234dc5d02c4cf%26pid%3D100337%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26mehot%3Dlo%26sd%3D272115992637
[09:20:47] <os1r1s> Tom_itx Those are independent though. I want one that I can touch off with
[09:21:10] <Tom_itx> i'd considered modifying a similar one
[09:21:17] <Tom_itx> never did though
[09:22:09] <Tom_itx> https://www.amazon.com/Flexbar-Electronic-Tool-Setter/dp/B001C1F9O8
[09:22:11] <Tom_itx> :)
[09:22:57] <os1r1s> Tom_itx haha ... yeah, back to 800
[09:23:16] <archivist> over priced and over there
[09:23:35] <CaptHindsight> if you ever start selling/dealing with hobbyists you'll understand why they charge $900
[09:23:51] <archivist> profit!
[09:24:07] <CaptHindsight> cover the cost of wasting your time
[09:24:24] <Tom_itx> http://skyfirecnc.ca/16-milling-options
[09:24:30] <Tom_itx> os1r1s that one has wires
[09:24:48] <CaptHindsight> $50 sale for $500 of your time with hand holding questions
[09:25:28] <os1r1s> Tom_itx Nice! Might be worth going for
[09:26:24] <Tom_itx> http://www.dhgate.com/product/cnc-tool-setter-cnc-router-tool-setting-auto/138602825.html
[09:26:47] <os1r1s> Tom_itx I want to stay away from pure contact ones. I have ones like that for my taig.
[09:27:11] <CaptHindsight> how do you hold the setter? will it work with my xxx? why come it doesn't work for me? I smashed it with my arbor press, why come it no longer works?
[09:27:42] <os1r1s> CaptHindsight I think you get idiotic questions no matter what level you sell too.
[09:27:57] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight, have an answering service that takes ~1-2 hrs to get thru
[09:28:12] <Tom_itx> that's what the pro's do
[09:28:30] <CaptHindsight> it's the lack of value of your time since they don't value their own time
[09:28:51] <CaptHindsight> Tom_itx: yeah, it works
[09:29:11] <Tom_itx> or they're REALLY pissed once they do get thru
[09:29:38] <Tom_itx> in which case you just happened to have a horrible connection...
[09:29:56] <CaptHindsight> nah, they aren't going to ever buy enough to be worth your time
[09:30:16] <Tom_itx> hobbyists are cheapasses anyway
[09:30:39] <Tom_itx> i know cause i am one :D
[09:31:10] <CaptHindsight> or they send the same questions via email over and over since they don't like/understand the answer
[09:32:15] <CaptHindsight> why does one screw cost $0.10 plus shipping if a pallet of 10k only costs $500?
[09:32:46] <CaptHindsight> how come you can't break open a case of 1k for my 12 parts?
[09:33:01] <Tom_itx> or just like running a cnc job.. setup time is there no matter what
[09:33:15] <CaptHindsight> isn't setup free?
[09:33:41] <Tom_itx> never. if it says it is it's already hidden cost
[09:33:44] <CaptHindsight> it only took 2 minutes to run why is there an hour of tie charged?
[09:33:55] <CaptHindsight> tie/time
[09:34:36] <Tom_itx> degreasing, deburring, sending to inventory, removing from inventory, secretary needs more nail polish....
[09:35:29] <archivist> MD wants a new car
[09:36:31] <CaptHindsight> I'm surprised by how cheap some parts from China are. The sellers must make them on dirt floor shacks where they live.
[09:37:36] <CaptHindsight> low volume parts, so not automated
[09:39:40] <CaptHindsight> http://www.dhgate.com/product/cnc-tool-setter-cnc-router-tool-setting-auto/138602825.html how many of these are you going to sell?
[09:40:12] <archivist> none because Sorry, this product is no longer available
[09:40:29] <CaptHindsight> <bah dum bum>
[09:41:23] <CaptHindsight> you know what you want and how it works
[09:42:33] <CaptHindsight> vs "I bought your $17 tool setting unit, how do I hook it up, I don't live on the ground floor?"
[09:42:52] <CaptHindsight> why is there a Red clip on the Black wire?
[09:43:29] <Frank_12> hellop
[09:51:01] <Deejay> heyp
[09:52:14] <Polymorphism> nothing but problems!
[09:52:20] * Polymorphism curses
[09:52:45] <archivist> os1r1s, I dont actually use a tool setter because http://www.archivist.info/cnc/target.php
[09:53:08] <archivist> I need to align to the centre of the teeth
[09:53:40] <Frank_12> im curious, what else can mesa cards do?(or cant) i mean there are a lot of fpga cards, besides the regular cnc combos. maybe someone with a little more insight can enlighten me? hehe
[09:57:12] <archivist> they work with linuxcnc well
[09:57:21] <Frank_12> it would be awesome if in the mesa page there were some examples
[10:24:17] <Polymorphism> tried to level the side rails again
[10:24:39] <Polymorphism> george said to pocket one end 2mm in (the rail doesnt reach to both pockets, he claims this is normal) then indicate from there level it across the other side and middle
[10:24:42] <Polymorphism> then do the same on the other side
[10:25:04] <Polymorphism> but when i did that, the ballscrew would bind and sound crunchy once I tightened down the ballnut to crossmember bolts
[10:25:44] <Polymorphism> and when I had previously leveled by resting the very tip of the rail in each ledge, then leaving other side loose while moving carriage it was all smooth, but then the crossmember had a 1/8" gap between the ballnut mount
[10:26:18] <Polymorphism> and the prior time, it was all together, and fairly smooth, but they werrent parallel
[10:26:31] <Polymorphism> buyt the crossmember binding issue was solved by raising the rails up toward the top ledge of the end pockets
[10:26:38] <Polymorphism> but george said that isn't the right way...
[10:27:01] * KreAa blinks
[10:27:07] <Polymorphism> anyway, now I'm totally lost he tried to explain over the phone but it didnt seem to help. I wasn't expecting it to be this difficult to assemble
[10:27:20] <Polymorphism> there has also been a lot of missing and some extra hardware, which adds to the confusion
[10:27:31] * KreAa needs a picture
[10:27:50] <KreAa> I used SBR20 and 16mm ballnut stuff myself
[10:27:51] <Polymorphism> I have a lot of them
[10:27:57] <Polymorphism> pictures I mean
[10:28:05] <Polymorphism> I've been documenting the attempted build
[10:28:28] <KreAa> what i found interesting is the height of a sbr20 pluss bearing block does not match the BK16 plus ballnut block
[10:28:37] <KreAa> I had to shim it
[10:28:52] <KreAa> Unfortunately my server is down so i can't show it
[10:29:47] * KreAa is printing new hall endstop holders for his cnc so has 1 hour to kill
[10:29:53] <KreAa> piccy me!
[10:30:26] <Polymorphism> https://i.ytimg.com/vi/gJ3mPKgSVow/maxresdefault.jpg
[10:30:29] <Polymorphism> there we go
[10:31:02] <Polymorphism> the x and z rails have ledges to sit on
[10:31:04] <KreAa> cute
[10:31:12] <Polymorphism> but the long y rails use extrusion
[10:31:17] <Polymorphism> and so you have to level them by hand
[10:31:30] <Polymorphism> I wasn't aware of this, and it has a huge effect on the crossmember mating with the ballnut mount!!!!
[10:31:47] <Polymorphism> there are pockets on the front and back plates that appear to be for the rails to sit in
[10:31:53] <Polymorphism> but my rails arent long enough to reach both sides
[10:32:04] <Polymorphism> and if its resting on the bottom of the pockets
[10:32:09] <Polymorphism> then there is the 1/8" air gap
[10:32:13] <Polymorphism> between that mount and the crossmember
[10:32:25] <KreAa> clean machine
[10:32:35] <Polymorphism> it does seem very nice otherwise
[10:32:46] <Polymorphism> I've put the rest of it together
[10:32:57] <KreAa> so the bearings to support screw for y is attached to the side of the front and back plate right ?
[10:33:14] <KreAa> and I assume the back end there is where motor is as front has no hole
[10:33:23] <Polymorphism> right
[10:33:23] <KreAa> That means the bearing on front should be floating
[10:33:27] <Polymorphism> one side has a hole the other doesnt
[10:33:27] <KreAa> NO clip!
[10:33:29] <Polymorphism> both have mounts
[10:33:34] <Polymorphism> withb bearings
[10:33:40] <Polymorphism> one end is a nut the other a c clip
[10:33:50] <Polymorphism> the bearing blocks can move around to adjust before tightening
[10:33:53] <Polymorphism> 1.5mm or so
[10:33:56] <KreAa> The clip is what makes it impossible for you to reach bot sides ?
[10:34:30] <Polymorphism> so he said to loosen both of those bearing blocks on the ends, loosen ballnut housing mount. then pocket a side rail 2mm into pocket and measure. then make it same all the way across and do the other side
[10:34:36] <KreAa> you see, the rod should be held in place by the side with machined end, where you attach it in the double block with motor etc
[10:34:43] <Polymorphism> the first odd thing is if its pocketed like that its not the same on both sides left and right
[10:35:06] <KreAa> I don't get the pocket thing
[10:35:07] <Polymorphism> yes there is a block there too
[10:35:37] <Polymorphism> neither do I 100%
[10:35:39] <Polymorphism> looking for a picture
[10:35:44] <KreAa> I see how your x is assembled and I assume the y is identical in regards to the blocks holding the bearings
[10:35:58] <malcom2073_> Looks like it's coming along good Polymorphism
[10:36:07] <KreAa> since the tolerances would be fiddly it is normal to leave the outer end floating in the bearing
[10:36:26] <Polymorphism> malcom2073_, that one isnt mine but mine is at the same level
[10:36:30] <KreAa> The fixed end need only be the one with motor so motor doesn't see a shaft flopping in and out when changing direction
[10:36:34] <malcom2073_> Aww, pics of yours! c'mon now
[10:37:11] <Polymorphism> the crossmember
[10:37:13] <Polymorphism> at the bottom
[10:37:23] <Polymorphism> its heifght changes based on how high the side rails are
[10:37:28] <Polymorphism> and there is nothing to guide them
[10:37:37] <Polymorphism> so I have to use a caliper to try to level them
[10:37:41] <Polymorphism> but it seems like this isnt right
[10:37:45] <Polymorphism> george says to use the pocket
[10:37:48] <Polymorphism> but then I had the binding problem
[10:37:51] <KreAa> hmm
[10:37:59] <Polymorphism> still trying to find the pic
[10:37:59] <KreAa> seems like a typical issue on assy yes
[10:38:09] <Polymorphism> ill uploadf the pic myself
[10:38:48] <KreAa> usually though, if the screw is grinding it is due to the bearings on end being pulled or pushed, or from the nut being twisted
[10:38:53] <KreAa> aka tilted
[10:39:15] <Polymorphism> my pics will be the clearest on the net
[10:39:23] <Polymorphism> what do you need to see a picture of
[10:39:57] <Polymorphism> I took 300 pics
[10:39:59] <Polymorphism> so far
[10:41:02] * KreAa needs to build the latency-plot app himself if it's not on machinekit
[10:43:06] <Polymorphism> I'm uploading a picture
[10:43:48] <Polymorphism> https://imgur.com/dsPpTnD
[10:44:11] <Polymorphism> so those are the pockets the long extrusions sit in
[10:44:30] <Polymorphism> and the pockets next to them have a small ledge the rail sits in, apparently only on one side because its not long enought o each both...
[10:44:44] <Polymorphism> and then you use that as the height for all of it, and measure along it
[10:44:54] <Polymorphism> then do the same for the other side, which is at a different height...
[10:45:19] <Polymorphism> he says the new version has ledges for the rails to sit in
[10:45:24] <Polymorphism> like the x and y do now
[10:45:51] <Polymorphism> he did say something about changing those out for me, whether he meant for money or as a courtesy I'm not sure. he mentioned shipping mine back when the new ones are complete
[10:46:15] <Polymorphism> but for now, I need to work with the system I have, which seems difficult to align and assemble
[10:46:38] <Polymorphism> both for level, parallelism, and now this issue relating to the crossmember height relative to the ballnut housing///mount
[10:46:56] <Polymorphism> which has lead to grinding binding ballscrew, or gap between them, or binding on the side rail blocks, etc
[10:47:46] <Polymorphism> them being the ballscrew housing and the crossmember below it
[10:47:53] <Polymorphism> so this is a summary of my problem
[10:48:02] <Polymorphism> holding me back from assembling my first cnc
[10:48:52] <Polymorphism> let me know if you need any other pics KreAa
[10:49:41] <KreAa> looking
[10:49:59] <KreAa> ok so there are two pockets for profiles ?
[10:50:04] <KreAa> and one pocket for the bearing
[10:50:24] <Polymorphism> and two more pockets
[10:50:28] <Polymorphism> the little nubs on the outside
[10:50:31] <Polymorphism> for the linear profile side rails
[10:50:52] <Polymorphism> the flat hiwin
[10:51:38] <Polymorphism> I'll send another pic
[10:51:52] <KreAa> well I don't see the problem
[10:51:59] <KreAa> it's simply an alignment job step by step
[10:52:28] <Polymorphism> well
[10:52:31] <Polymorphism> read the upper right
[10:52:32] <Polymorphism> http://www.xzerocnc.com/index.htm
[10:52:57] <Polymorphism> and this quote " NO need to square machine. Every part is pocketed , pined or has ledge to sit on leaving machine square without need of any gauges "
[10:54:10] <Polymorphism> and I followed the step by step he gave and it didnt work
[10:54:19] <Polymorphism> the side rails have taken many hours of my time now
[10:54:31] <Polymorphism> the rest went together like legos and is smooth as glass
[10:55:48] <_abc_> http://www.linmotors.com/news/media/MD_How_to_Take_Vibration_out_of_Step_motors.aspx has anyone tried this? I never saw anything like it in official servo control books...
[11:00:15] <Polymorphism> KreAa, here are some more pics if this helps: http://imgur.com/a/UHgGx
[11:00:49] <Polymorphism> see how x and z have ledges
[11:13:42] <Polymorphism> KreAa, malcom2073_ here are my pics I really hope you have some advice for me... not sure what to do now
[11:13:43] <Polymorphism> https://imgur.com/a/NhVWn
[11:14:25] <malcom2073_> [11:26:03] <Polymorphism> and this quote " NO need to square machine. Every part is pocketed , pined or has ledge to sit on leaving machine square without need of any gauges "
[11:14:27] <malcom2073_> That's marketing bs
[11:14:30] <malcom2073_> you have to square and line up everything
[11:14:31] <Polymorphism> CaptHindsight, also, and Loetmichel , calling enleth and SpeedEvil , my old friend _methods too. Maybe even archivist has some adviice for me. I'm really stumped.
[11:14:48] <malcom2073_> lemme read up, I wasn't paying attention to the conversation
[11:15:48] <Polymorphism> part of why I went for it was the supposed easy assembly
[11:15:51] <malcom2073_> You have a dial indicator?
[11:15:57] <Polymorphism> a shame if that was really "marketing bs" which I would call a lie
[11:15:59] <malcom2073_> Eh, nothing is "easy" if you have to assemble it heh
[11:16:09] <Polymorphism> yeah, I just got the clamping dial indicator from harbor freight
[11:16:28] <malcom2073_> You're going to have to mount one rail, clamp the dial indicator to it and get it straight, then do the second one based on the first
[11:17:05] <Polymorphism> I don't think the mount can reach that far
[11:17:08] <Polymorphism> to the other rail
[11:17:17] <malcom2073_> Attach the gantry to it
[11:17:46] <Polymorphism> plus the issue of the ballnut mount
[11:32:13] <archivist> packing (shims) to fill gaps, file/scrape/machine where there is too much, and never ever set up on a bad surface as it will be reflected on the machine bed
[11:32:39] <archivist> average table top is not good enough
[11:35:06] <SpeedEvil> Many machinists take surface tables for granite.
[11:35:14] <Polymorphism> so even with the way its pocketed, I have to use a level surface?
[11:35:46] <SpeedEvil> Polymorphism: It depends how accurate you want it to be.
[11:35:56] <archivist> does it have adjustable feet
[11:35:58] <SpeedEvil> It may be adequate for some uses.
[11:36:00] <Polymorphism> I just want it to move without grinding
[11:36:02] <Polymorphism> no feet on it
[11:36:03] <SpeedEvil> It will not be optimal
[11:40:33] <Polymorphism> false advertisting
[11:40:42] <Polymorphism> if what you say is true
[11:41:05] <archivist> you may have unreasonable expectations
[11:41:54] <Polymorphism> he told me on the phone all I need is a ruler
[11:42:13] <archivist> many years ago I worked for a kit maker (amplifiers etc) the skill level of the users varied a LOT
[11:42:41] <Polymorphism> this is advertised as avoiding a lot of those issues
[11:42:46] <Polymorphism> and going together earily
[11:42:49] <Polymorphism> s
[11:42:56] <archivist> we often got people NOT following the instructions
[11:43:10] <Polymorphism> there are barely any instructions, and half are for a different version
[11:43:44] <Polymorphism> he asked me to measure the rails and profiles
[11:43:45] <archivist> also it is reasonable to expect a kit builder to have some clue
[11:43:47] <Polymorphism> I will do that tonight
[11:43:53] <Polymorphism> perhaps something is wrong
[11:44:03] <Polymorphism> I do
[11:44:09] <Polymorphism> not one person in here knows either, apparently
[11:44:11] <Polymorphism> how to level those rails
[11:44:17] <archivist> parts from the wrong kit or you used the parts in the wrong place
[11:44:17] <Polymorphism> or if they do, they arent speaking up
[11:44:37] <Polymorphism> not one here knows how to solve the gap between the ballnut housing and the crossmember
[11:44:42] <Polymorphism> or if they do, its a big secret
[11:45:02] <archivist> we dont have the damned kit so how the fk do we know your needs
[11:45:11] <Polymorphism> because I showed pics
[11:45:16] <Polymorphism> that describe the issue perfectly
[11:45:24] <archivist> not at all
[11:45:32] <Polymorphism> https://imgur.com/a/NhVWn http://imgur.com/a/UHgGx https://imgur.com/dsPpTnD
[11:45:50] <Polymorphism> you can clearly see x and z have ledges for the rails
[11:45:52] <Polymorphism> but y doesnt
[11:45:58] <Polymorphism> hes even changing this in the new version
[11:46:05] <Polymorphism> so the mystery is how to level and parellel those rails with a ruler
[11:46:11] <Polymorphism> without the ballnut binding or grinding
[11:46:18] <Polymorphism> or a gap between the housing for ballnut and crossmember
[11:46:22] <Polymorphism> everything else IS easy
[11:46:23] <Polymorphism> absurdly easy
[11:46:26] <Polymorphism> but this isnt making any sense
[11:46:37] <Polymorphism> there are ledges for ther rails, but the rails arent long enough to reach them?
[11:46:40] <Polymorphism> things dont make sense here
[11:46:47] <Polymorphism> incorrect hardware included, etc
[11:46:55] <Polymorphism> this isnt your avergae kit where the user has no idea what they are doing
[11:46:57] <archivist> you got to one end with things loose, add packing or tighten ONLY when at the end
[11:47:03] <archivist> got/go
[11:47:11] <Polymorphism> I did that
[11:47:15] <Polymorphism> george told me step by step on the phone
[11:47:22] <Polymorphism> to pocket one rail 2mm into a ledge
[11:47:30] <Polymorphism> then measure other end make it same
[11:47:33] <Polymorphism> then same on other side
[11:47:37] <Polymorphism> then tighten ballnut to crossmember
[11:47:40] <Polymorphism> then move ti motor side
[11:47:53] <Polymorphism> tighten ballscrew bearing housing to end plate
[11:47:58] <Polymorphism> then move to other end, tighten other end
[11:48:06] <Polymorphism> but it was grinding and binding on the way to other end
[11:48:08] <archivist> you have to cycle through the steps more than once
[11:48:32] <Polymorphism> I'll try it again
[11:48:48] <Polymorphism> it's just not clear why the pockets are like they are
[11:48:56] <Polymorphism> https://imgur.com/dsPpTnD
[11:48:59] <Polymorphism> the nubs on the outside
[11:49:08] <Polymorphism> are tiny ledges for the y rail to sit on
[11:49:16] <Polymorphism> but it can only reach one side of the machine
[11:49:23] <Polymorphism> it cant sit in those ledges on both sides at once
[11:49:30] <Polymorphism> it can barely rest on the ground ends
[11:49:33] <Polymorphism> but its not on the ledge
[11:49:36] <Polymorphism> its on the chamfer, sort of
[11:49:52] <archivist> see what you are doing wrong
[11:50:17] <Polymorphism> http://i.imgur.com/2fuQ1kI.jpg
[11:50:23] <archivist> this sounds like carriages are tight and should not be yet
[11:50:24] <Polymorphism> thats the ledge///pocket///rail on one end
[11:50:53] <Polymorphism> thats t nuts in the channel
[11:50:55] <Polymorphism> to hold the rail there
[11:51:01] <archivist> carriages and rails
[11:51:38] <Polymorphism> http://i.imgur.com/l07HXdT.jpg
[11:51:48] <Polymorphism> http://i.imgur.com/Pv3mSGI.jpg
[11:52:07] <enleth> Polymorphism: yeah, you might be tightening too many things at once
[11:52:53] <Polymorphism> it's not quite clear to me what should be tight and when during assembly
[11:54:42] <archivist> some stuff will need the screw clearance to allow the right "fit"
[11:55:02] <enleth> then try tightening less things at once and traverse the axis all the way back and forth at each stage if possible (obviously it might not be at the start when everything's loose and all over the place), then when the time comes to tighten the ball nut and screw mounts, snug them up and ride the axis back and forth again at each step
[11:55:52] <enleth> Polymorphism: snug up so that it won't wobble around but will still shift if forced to by the screw
[11:56:17] <Polymorphism> should the frame be snug?
[11:56:31] <Polymorphism> or do you mean the gantry sides on the blocks
[11:56:43] <Polymorphism> and should the x carriage and plate etc be on there
[11:56:47] <Polymorphism> when I'm doing this
[11:57:51] <archivist> snug but
[11:58:34] <Polymorphism> I'll loosen everything a bit and try following the steps
[11:58:49] <archivist> I spent weeks helping one customer over the phone, then I got the kit back for our repair service....wtf
[13:29:28] <mistik1> greetings fellow CNC'ers
[15:33:43] <plpower> hi is there a base setting fpr a huanyang spindel pwm
[15:34:11] <plpower> i read 100hz as standard and the manual showes 400hz as request
[16:04:05] <tiwake> XXCoder: poke
[16:04:46] <XXCoder> eww
[16:04:49] <XXCoder> whats up
[16:05:22] <tiwake> XXCoder: got another email back today from that guy saying he got the application and he is going to look at it
[16:05:42] <XXCoder> nice
[16:08:26] <tiwake> emailed back and said if he wanted to, could call me at my house phone anytime today or tomorrow
[16:08:56] <Polymorphism> =\
[16:09:05] <XXCoder> nice
[16:09:07] <Polymorphism> where is pink_vampire
[16:09:16] <XXCoder> dunno
[16:09:17] <tiwake> avoiding the sun
[16:09:27] <XXCoder> shes not in even late hours now
[16:27:52] <Deejay> gn8
[16:29:29] <XXCoder> http://lego.wikia.com/wiki/Juno_spacecraft_figures
[16:29:30] <XXCoder> nice
[16:45:46] <Demure_> First day that I saw my axis move, feels really good. :) Toolholder question: I'm thinking about going for Glanze toolholders, they have what I'm looking for in my shank size (12mm, 10mm bores). Just wondering on their quality, does anyone have experience? Tip-wise I'll use something better, but I'm unsure what makes a Sandvik or SECO holder better than a Glanze & what makes a Glanze better...
[16:45:47] <Demure_> ...than (Hopefully) a no-name Chinese holder.
[16:48:55] <XXCoder> dunno
[16:49:17] <XXCoder> stack of holiday weekend plus sunday, usually very quiet
[16:49:50] <Demure_> That's okay, also don't want to be a burden with all my questions on here. You must get that plenty already.
[16:50:20] <XXCoder> lol some people ask more often.. like me
[16:50:48] <Demure_> Good to know. :)
[16:51:09] <Demure_> I'm glad I made it this far, seeing all the axis move smoothly was such a relief.
[16:51:16] <Demure_> Nothing blew up and I didn't electrocute myself.
[16:51:31] <Demure_> ...Only downside was the 0.0625mm backlash but we'll see what can be done about that.
[16:52:45] <XXCoder> .0024" fairly large but yeah can do some stuff to fix that
[16:52:54] <XXCoder> such as preload and stuff
[16:53:06] <SpeedEvil> Simply place the machine in a centrifuge
[16:53:25] <Demure_> Yeah, when I set it all up I didn't tighten up the preload nut all that much so I think it can take a little bit more.
[17:15:08] <CaptHindsight> Demure_: 0.0625mm backlash on a ballscrew, leadscrew, rubber band drive, paper mache positioner?
[17:15:52] <Demure_> Ballscrew.
[17:16:36] <CaptHindsight> Demure_: how is the screw captured? on each end? one end? not at all?
[17:17:07] <CaptHindsight> http://machinedesign.com/linear-motion/importance-ballscrew-end-fixity
[17:17:18] <Demure_> What does captured mean in this sense? There's two screws in one block held together with a spring in the middle, or something along those lines.
[17:17:45] <Demure_> *nuts
[17:17:53] <Demure_> The screw is held at both ends in ball bearings
[17:18:23] <CaptHindsight> http://machinedesign.com/site-files/machinedesign.com/files/archive/motionsystemdesign.com/images/main-types894.jpg
[17:18:55] <CaptHindsight> http://machinedesign.com/site-files/machinedesign.com/files/archive/motionsystemdesign.com/images/Ball-screw-end-mounted.jpg
[17:19:17] <Demure_> Fixed at one end and supported at the other
[17:19:19] <CaptHindsight> http://machinedesign.com/site-files/machinedesign.com/files/archive/motionsystemdesign.com/images/fixed-end894.jpg
[17:19:43] <Demure_> Or supported at both ends, depends on the tickness I suppose.
[17:20:06] <Demure_> Ah
[17:20:11] <XXCoder> whats diffence on "supported" and "fixed" anyway
[17:20:27] <CaptHindsight> it's in the first article I posted
[17:21:10] <XXCoder> just difference on size of holder?
[17:21:31] <Demure_> It's one bearing vs 2 bearings spaced apart
[17:21:40] <CaptHindsight> http://machinedesign.com/site-files/machinedesign.com/files/archive/motionsystemdesign.com/images/Ball-screw-end-mounted.jpg
[17:21:41] <XXCoder> ah ok
[17:21:42] <Demure_> To limit the bending
[17:21:56] <XXCoder> thanks
[17:22:00] <CaptHindsight> A fixed end can react moment loads because it is based on two rotary bearings sufficiently spaced apart so the ball screw remains perpendicular to the planes of the rotary bearings. Effective centers 1.5 times nominal screw diameter are usually enough.
[17:22:21] <XXCoder> I still have suopported rails and ballscrews, still not sure what to do with those lol
[17:23:10] <Demure_> Two supports at either end here, but I think that'll have to do for now
[17:23:14] <CaptHindsight> Demure_: is the play in the ballnut or the screw?
[17:23:29] <Demure_> Ballnut
[17:23:31] <Demure_> The screw turns
[17:23:51] <Demure_> But it just takes 0.0625mm of movement before the carriage does
[17:24:11] <CaptHindsight> how are you measuring this?
[17:24:20] <CaptHindsight> across what two points?
[17:24:41] <Demure_> Dial indicator against the carriage, sending 0.005mm steps until it moves
[17:24:46] <CaptHindsight> you have to consider this to see what is actually moving
[17:25:00] <Demure_> Moving it in the opposite direction first
[17:25:09] <Demure_> Once it has moved that amount it'll move the 0.005mm
[17:26:48] <CaptHindsight> is the screw properly preloaded? if the dial indicator is on the machine base can you move the screw axially and measure play with the probe on end of the screw?
[17:27:13] <CaptHindsight> ignore the nut for now
[17:28:03] <Demure_> How do you want me to try and measure this exactly?
[17:28:29] <CaptHindsight> the screw has the motor on one end correct?
[17:29:21] <JT-Mobile> Hi from Hot Springs
[17:30:07] <Demure_> Correct, with a timing belt
[17:30:49] <CaptHindsight> for example https://imagebin.ca/v/2aq3eWhTxbGY
[17:31:28] <Demure_> Pretty much, but the motor is attached through a reduced timing belt
[17:31:55] <XXCoder> hey
[17:31:56] <CaptHindsight> on the left side is the end of the ballscrew accessible?
[17:32:32] <CaptHindsight> can you put a dial indicator on the left end of the screw to measure and axial movement?
[17:32:43] <CaptHindsight> and/any
[17:33:43] <Demure_> You mean when turning by hand?
[17:33:46] <CaptHindsight> if you push and pull the screw does it move axially?
[17:33:50] <CaptHindsight> not turning
[17:34:08] <CaptHindsight> pressing or pulling in the axis of the screw
[17:34:59] <Demure_> Nope, no movement there
[17:35:02] <CaptHindsight> if the screw can move axially it needs to be fixed first
[17:35:27] <CaptHindsight> if there is no axial play then you measure the axial play of the nut
[17:38:41] <Demure_> I'll get on that tomorrow, have to disassemble it further and that's going to get a tad too loud at this hour
[17:38:51] <Demure_> But thanks for the help! :)
[17:39:24] <Demure_> I think this will be the task for tomorrow.
[17:39:27] <Demure_> Bye!
[17:41:15] <XXCoder> I need to check that too lol
[17:42:21] <CaptHindsight> at this point I'd ask for a picture of the setup
[17:43:04] <XXCoder> mines just standard 3040 chinese router
[17:43:19] <XXCoder> I'm still surpised how rare mills are in aliexpress
[17:43:37] <CaptHindsight> to rule out him having a 1/8" leadscrew vs 1/2" ballscrew, wooden machine frame, 3d printed bearings etc :)
[17:43:41] <XXCoder> everyone and their borther sell routers lol
[17:44:04] <XXCoder> true
[17:44:17] <DLPeterson> i'm trying to build linuxcnc and am getting this error during the configure step: if ! $PYTHON -c 'import sys;raise SystemExit,sys.hexversion<0x2070000'
[17:44:34] <DLPeterson> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
[17:44:34] <DLPeterson> configure: error: Python version too old (2.7 or newer required)
[17:45:05] <XXCoder> youre on linux? just add python repo if your disto includes old one
[17:45:19] <DLPeterson> i have python-2.7.11 and python-3.4.4, python-3.4.4 is my system default
[17:45:46] <XXCoder> hmm I think theres way to force use 2.7.11
[17:45:53] <XXCoder> it might be unable to use 3.4.4
[17:45:53] <DLPeterson> XXCoder, yes i'm on gentoo linux.
[17:46:20] <CaptHindsight> DLPeterson: as in linuxcnc-devel
[17:46:46] <CaptHindsight> someone that is building the gentoo ebuilds is in there right now
[17:46:59] <DLPeterson> CaptHindsight, yes, I've clone the git repo and am on the tip of master
[17:47:07] <XXCoder> DLPeterson: https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-6520134.html
[17:47:12] <XXCoder> maybe helpful
[17:47:18] <DLPeterson> CaptHindsight, ok, i'll head there, thank you
[17:47:45] <DLPeterson> CaptHindsight, ok, i'll head there, thank you
[17:47:48] <DLPeterson> oops
[17:48:05] <XXCoder> one of solutions is this
[17:48:07] <XXCoder> put it in the make.conf
[17:48:07] <XXCoder> USE_PYTHON="2.7"
[18:39:12] <enleth> I have a dillema. the ORAC is factory fitted with rather shitty stepper motors - NEMA34, with torque curves easily matched by modern NEMA23 motors, prone to stalling and making funny noises even when driven by the factory drives and controller, so I'd be glad to replace them with servos
[18:39:25] <enleth> but there's very little axial space for both motors
[18:39:31] <enleth> wide but short cheap steppers are common, wide but short cheap servos are not
[18:40:19] <XXCoder> well there is few possible options
[18:40:23] <XXCoder> encoded steppers for one
[18:40:44] <XXCoder> heard its not as good as servo but it DOES know its position, and not commanded one either
[18:41:58] <XXCoder> I'm sure there is servos that match NEMA34 specs too
[18:42:21] <CaptHindsight> he said even nema23 steppers match the specs
[18:42:39] <XXCoder> I guess he has older nema34 that is weaker
[18:42:39] <CaptHindsight> so why not nema32 steppers?
[18:42:54] <enleth> I have two excellent NEMA23 integrated drive steppers that can be controller like servos, but they're just too long
[18:42:57] <XXCoder> and want servos that fit within space. could use nema23 yeah
[18:43:24] <XXCoder> closed loop steppers
[18:43:31] <enleth> the original steppers are 60mm long, that's quite flat for a NEMA34
[18:44:04] <enleth> problem is, all closed loop/integrated steppers I've seen have the drive tacked on the end instead of to the side, so they're much longer
[18:44:31] <enleth> I've got 71mm of space for the Z motor and about 90mm for the X motor
[18:45:02] <enleth> that 71mm could be made a few mm longer if I swapped the adapter plate for thinner steel
[18:45:06] <enleth> but not by much
[18:45:36] <XXCoder> 90 degree adoptors might add backlash
[18:46:21] <enleth> well, I was just about to ask about backlash-less 90deg gearing
[18:46:34] <XXCoder> good question on that
[18:46:39] <enleth> some kinds of helical gears are backlash-less I think
[18:46:49] <enleth> but they might be pretty expensive even for this size
[18:46:59] <enleth> I could slap on some quite long motors that way, though
[18:47:22] <enleth> and the low cost of long, sleek brushed DC servos could offset that
[18:47:24] <XXCoder> you could rotate motor 180 degrees if you move it out and use belt or something
[18:47:35] <XXCoder> however that might add much backlash or may be too hard to do
[18:47:53] <enleth> the screws are belt driven already
[18:48:34] <XXCoder> assuming all else is same, the longer more powerful it is? http://www.jvl.dk/files/_2011clean/nye%20hjemmesider/images%20preferred%20products/mst%20001_002_234%20400x300.jpg
[18:49:03] <enleth> in a single product series, pretty much, yeah
[18:49:43] <XXCoder> ok
[18:50:47] <enleth> but generally I think it's more common for stepper motors to be quite flat compared to the faceplate size than it is for servos
[18:52:14] <enleth> or putting it another way - it's very easy to buy cheap second-hand DC servos that are quite long, and very hard to buy flat ones
[18:52:43] <enleth> which is probably easily explained by the internal winding and magnet geometry of stepper motors vs. brushed DC motors
[18:55:11] <XXCoder> well hope you can find a solution
[18:56:56] <SpeedEvil> I have some nice pancake servos somewhere in the attic
[18:57:11] <SpeedEvil> from old tape drives
[18:57:33] <SpeedEvil> http://www.kollmorgen.com/uploadedImages/kollmorgencom/Products/Motors/Brush_DC/Servo_Disc/Servo_Disc_LARGE.jpg
[18:57:55] <XXCoder> floppy drive stepper heh
[18:58:00] <SpeedEvil> Noooooooo
[18:58:04] <Loetmichel> SpeedEvil: i had some success with the 250W brushed bicycle motors
[18:58:11] <Loetmichel> the pancake style
[18:58:33] <SpeedEvil> 'Absolutely zero cogging, even at very low rpms
[18:58:34] <SpeedEvil> High acceleration, from 0 to 4,000 rpm in under 60 degrees of rotation and as little as 10 milliseconds
[18:58:34] <SpeedEvil> Peak torque of up to 10 times continuous torque without risk of demagnitization
[18:58:38] <SpeedEvil> similar to this
[18:58:53] <enleth> Loetmichel: that sounds interesting. Did you hook them up to "proper" servo drives?
[18:58:56] <SpeedEvil> they were used for _high_ speed large tape drives
[18:58:58] <SpeedEvil> for data
[18:59:17] <Loetmichel> wrap a striped tape around the circumfence, place 2 reflex phototransistors on the edge in the right distance-> instant DC servo ;9
[18:59:38] <Loetmichel> UHU servo drives
[18:59:41] <enleth> SpeedEvil: that thing in the photo doesn't even look like a motor
[19:00:14] <XXCoder> http://cdn.instructables.com/FR9/OTSM/FRK41Z4K/FR9OTSMFRK41Z4K.MEDIUM.jpg
[19:00:36] <Loetmichel> XXCoder: 5.25" diskette drive
[19:00:42] <Loetmichel> TDK i would wager
[19:01:00] <enleth> XXCoder: that's a BLDC, probably deisgned for a very specific speed range
[19:01:07] <SpeedEvil> http://www.printed-motor.com/photo/printed-motor/editor/20150403135044_30464.jpg
[19:01:09] <Loetmichel> ahem, 3.5"
[19:01:10] <SpeedEvil> better
[19:01:13] <XXCoder> yeah was more or less joking lol
[19:01:14] <Loetmichel> not 5.25"
[19:01:22] <SpeedEvil> It's about 12" in diameter and 5kg
[19:02:11] <Loetmichel> the 5.25" pancake BLDCs are not that bad tho
[19:02:12] <XXCoder> interesting
[19:02:20] <XXCoder> SpeedEvil: that'd be great for 5th axis
[19:02:22] <KreAture> :)
[19:02:26] <XXCoder> specifically C
[19:02:26] <Loetmichel> they have plenty of torque when driven with 80V ;)
[19:02:41] <KreAture> hi guys
[19:02:42] <Loetmichel> just need a bit of a fan and new magnets in the bell
[19:02:53] <enleth> SpeedEvil: 12"? I was about to ask for the price, but that's most definitely too big for the ORAC
[19:03:01] <SpeedEvil> scrap
[19:03:10] <SpeedEvil> ~20y ago
[19:03:24] <SpeedEvil> someone throwing out their old tape drives
[19:03:30] <KreAture> oooooh tapedrives
[19:03:31] <KreAture> :)
[19:03:34] <KreAture> Good motros
[19:04:17] <enleth> Loetmichel: the bicycle motors could be a good idea to try out I guess, if a garden variety AMC/Copley brushed DC servo drive can deal with them
[19:04:28] <SpeedEvil> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2238/2397460039_93bc235866_o.jpg
[19:04:33] <Loetmichel> enleth: no idea
[19:04:35] <SpeedEvil> but ~10-15 years newer
[19:04:41] <Loetmichel> the UHU could
[19:04:56] <Loetmichel> its very configurable tho
[19:05:02] <XXCoder> SpeedEvil: got an idea
[19:05:10] <XXCoder> use it as electric bicycle
[19:05:13] <XXCoder> motor
[19:05:57] <enleth> Loetmichel: that looks like a step/dir control drive, using an encoder instead of a tacho, right?
[19:06:05] <KreAture> Loetmichel I finished my new endstop sensors for my cnc. Now I can use the gantry mode and have it calibrate the angle of X and Y
[19:06:06] <Loetmichel> yes
[19:06:10] <KreAture> Loetmichel http://kreature.org/projects/cnc/endstop_2.jpg
[19:06:12] <KreAture> :)
[19:06:20] <KreAture> LOve blinkin lights
[19:06:41] <Loetmichel> KreAture: i am cheap and use microswitches on my machines
[19:06:43] <enleth> still, if those motors have at least a nominally linear voltage to speed curve, a servo drive should handle them
[19:06:50] <SpeedEvil> microswitches aren't bad
[19:06:53] <KreAture> Loetmichel yeh I just wanted better repeatability
[19:06:54] <XXCoder> sigh still havent figured how to add limit switches to mine
[19:07:01] <SpeedEvil> they can be quite accurate, used right
[19:07:02] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=7414
[19:07:06] <KreAture> Loetmichel then again I was too cheap and bought shitty switches
[19:07:07] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=7411
[19:07:17] <KreAture> Loetmichel btw the hall sensors are much cheaper than switches
[19:07:22] <Loetmichel> they are better in that configuration than my step resolition
[19:07:46] <Loetmichel> meaning i can repeat any reference move wiht less than 1 step diversity
[19:08:07] <KreAture> Loetmichel http://www.ebay.com/itm/272069301269
[19:08:33] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=560&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- these were less than 50@ for a 100 pack
[19:08:35] <KreAture> Loetmichel my switches were definately not that good
[19:08:38] <Loetmichel> i dont need any more ;)
[19:08:42] <KreAture> Loetmichel had a look at the signal and it was shit
[19:08:49] <KreAture> 50 for 4 bucks
[19:08:52] <KreAture> LOL
[19:09:19] <Loetmichel> 50€
[19:09:33] <Loetmichel> for a bag with 100
[19:09:41] <XXCoder> so many switches
[19:10:01] <KreAture> http://kreature.org/projects/3d_printer/rostock_plus/endstops/china_omron_switch_9.5mm_holes.png
[19:10:08] <Loetmichel> and hall switches have the problem that they thend to get irritated if you mill ferromagnetics
[19:10:15] <KreAture> This is what the signal from my switch looked like when my delta printer was homing
[19:10:35] <KreAture> Loetmichel mine are away from any of that
[19:10:47] <Loetmichel> put a 10nF on the contacts ;)
[19:10:51] <KreAture> and anyways they work on triggerlevel and would work even if magnet was coated in iron dust
[19:10:52] <Loetmichel> and it seems yours are old
[19:10:56] <KreAture> Loetmichel it has
[19:11:02] <KreAture> brand new switches
[19:11:05] <KreAture> used 1 week
[19:11:07] <Loetmichel> they seem to have quite a bit of oxidation on the contacts
[19:11:08] <KreAture> really shitty ones
[19:11:13] <KreAture> bouncing like mad
[19:11:20] <Loetmichel> yeah, i see that
[19:11:25] <KreAture> http://kreature.org/projects/3d_printer/rostock_plus/endstops/china_x1_switch_8.5mm_holes_2.png
[19:11:26] <Loetmichel> mine do not bounce at ALL
[19:11:27] <KreAture> diff one
[19:11:27] <XXCoder> basic debounching in code and its done
[19:11:44] <KreAture> XXCoder no it is not
[19:11:49] <Loetmichel> but i have them on 100 Ohms pullups
[19:11:52] <KreAture> The initial trigger point may not hit
[19:12:04] <Loetmichel> so there is a pretty current thru them
[19:12:09] <Loetmichel> that seems to make it better
[19:12:13] <KreAture> XXCoder what hapens is you get rid of the bounce but may shift rge responsepoint
[19:12:21] <KreAture> Loetmichel yeah that helps
[19:12:23] <Loetmichel> (did it because i had problems with WMI from the main spindle motor)
[19:12:29] <KreAture> hehe
[19:12:30] <KreAture> classic
[19:12:41] <KreAture> http://kreature.org/projects/3d_printer/rostock_plus/endstops/diy_hall_no_filtering(85mhz_gbw).png
[19:12:42] <Loetmichel> -W+E
[19:12:46] <KreAture> hall without filering on an amp
[19:12:55] <KreAture> these chips however have weverything built in
[19:13:07] <Loetmichel> i ended up filtering the motor spindle cable
[19:13:24] <Loetmichel> because it even seeped into the step signals from the LPT...
[19:13:31] <Loetmichel> at certain RPM
[19:13:40] <Loetmichel> thanks to the cheap chinese VFD ;)
[19:13:57] <KreAture> nice
[19:14:00] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12506
[19:14:11] <KreAture> You saw this ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoHu0reG47A
[19:14:23] <Loetmichel> and thats how the same cable loos now: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12560
[19:14:27] <Loetmichel> looks
[19:15:06] <XXCoder> KreAture: yours?
[19:15:21] <KreAture> yep XXCoder
[19:15:27] <XXCoder> well looks nice :)
[19:15:40] <KreAture> 3mm bit doing scallop cut
[19:15:59] <XXCoder> heres mine (it was cutting nylon with very bad spindle so its full of issues lol) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sojJgCfDbp4
[19:16:07] <KreAture> fusion 360 has a bug that stops it from clearing entire wall it only finishes the scallop till it meeds in center
[19:16:09] <Loetmichel> kreature: mine is a bit louder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzOtqYhpHIM
[19:16:23] <KreAture> then it tried cleaning up wall by following it and hit the nubs sticking out smack
[19:16:38] <KreAture> Loetmichel my spindle is very quiet
[19:16:43] <KreAture> Loetmichel it's a bldc
[19:16:56] <Loetmichel> the spindle is quiet
[19:16:59] <XXCoder> people tell me that my machine spindle is... loud. lol
[19:17:04] <Loetmichel> you hear the steppers ;)
[19:17:13] <KreAture> ahh your steppers! gaaah the steppers the steppers!
[19:17:15] <KreAture> lol
[19:17:48] <KreAture> XXCoder you are gunking your bit there
[19:18:03] <KreAture> I'd say wrong bit/feed/rpm
[19:18:07] <XXCoder> yeah. nylon with no cooling AND way too fast spindle
[19:18:11] <Loetmichel> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNLjMg0Nitk <- in PMMA its a lot quieter
[19:18:27] <KreAture> lol
[19:18:33] <XXCoder> KreAture: I just went for it anyway. I was really bored
[19:18:52] <KreAture> That's a proper mill though
[19:19:11] <KreAture> but yes your spindle slows down a lot
[19:19:20] <XXCoder> snow covered mill lol
[19:19:26] <XXCoder> weirdly clingy snow
[19:19:45] <Loetmichel> PMMA "plexiglas"
[19:19:46] <XXCoder> Loetmichel: might want to buy deionizer or something?
[19:19:57] <KreAture> I use airjet
[19:19:59] <KreAture> and vac
[19:20:00] <XXCoder> or ionizer? forgot which would act as "unsticker"
[19:20:12] <Loetmichel> XXCoder: it even works on humans...
[19:20:12] <KreAture> that is why my cut looks so clean
[19:20:19] <KreAture> all the debris are removed all the time
[19:20:29] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=5077 <- was not amused ;)
[19:20:50] <KreAture> https://youtu.be/bXyKfGim7n0?t=19
[19:21:00] <XXCoder> YETI!!!
[19:21:07] <KreAture> and yes, my skirt is actually open on the side where yet is
[19:21:09] <KreAture> jet is
[19:21:26] <KreAture> awsome pic
[19:21:39] <KreAture> Loetmichel ndnihil has one of me where I got blue smurfcum in my face
[19:21:49] <KreAture> he will publish it if I ever disagree with him
[19:21:52] <KreAture> lol
[19:22:01] <XXCoder> lol
[19:25:24] <KreAture> The right bit and right feed has more to say than machine it seems though
[19:25:35] <KreAture> still, a rigid machine can run the bit harder with less chatter
[19:25:46] <KreAture> My machine is flimsy vs a mill so I run light loads
[19:25:59] <KreAture> The machine is still capable of snapping bits though
[19:26:23] <KreAture> like when the 3mm bit is fed through the nubs sticking out after the scallop cut did not finish the whole wall
[19:26:26] <KreAture> smack snap!
[19:41:41] <XXCoder> fun how cnc can go wrong
[19:44:08] <CaptHindsight> trade rigidity for active chatter dampening
[19:44:34] <CaptHindsight> supposedly microcontrollers are cheaper than iron
[19:44:47] <CaptHindsight> so you can now use active dampening
[19:45:07] <SpeedEvil> a nice plywood frame, with LASER interferometric positioning
[19:45:26] <CaptHindsight> exactly
[19:45:31] <XXCoder> im pretty sure there is lower limit
[19:45:57] <CaptHindsight> plywood might even be overkill :)
[19:48:48] <CaptHindsight> i guess those fast powerful servo positioners might get expensive
[19:50:04] <CaptHindsight> can't we replace the cave man cutting tools with something else?
[19:50:28] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r0CiLBM1o8
[19:50:29] <CaptHindsight> some sort of focused plasma field or something?
[19:50:34] <SpeedEvil> CNC gardening
[19:50:40] <XXCoder> heh one book they invented something that makes spacetime flaw, any atom that touches it falls out of universe
[19:50:51] <XXCoder> one of their first prical use was using shaped flaws as tools.
[19:51:02] <XXCoder> tool that last forever and are infinitely sharp
[19:51:32] <XXCoder> hope it evenually gets discovered lol
[19:51:51] <XXCoder> farm cnc lol
[19:51:54] <CaptHindsight> SpeedEvil: don't make me look at what controller they use
[19:52:41] <XXCoder> wow
[19:52:44] <XXCoder> I want one.
[19:52:54] <CaptHindsight> Raspberry Pi 3 computer ah so it can run linuxcnc with a full speed GUI
[19:53:02] <CaptHindsight> just get rid of the dunio
[19:53:34] <SpeedEvil> g-code (garden)
[19:54:06] <XXCoder> I love when company captions videos.
[19:54:16] <mistik1> I am so building one :D
[19:54:28] <XXCoder> mistik1: the farm cnc?
[19:54:32] <mistik1> yea
[19:54:43] <SpeedEvil> I note in passing that you can kill mosquitos with 25ms of 4W blue LASER
[19:54:53] <SpeedEvil> significantly less should do for aphids
[19:54:54] <CaptHindsight> Raspberry Pi 3 + Arduino Mega 2560 Microcontroller and RAMPS 1.4 shield costs more than a PC
[19:55:14] <XXCoder> I recall reading something about laser system that detects and kills any africianized bees
[19:55:19] <XXCoder> leaving regular ones alone
[19:55:26] <CaptHindsight> racist laser
[19:55:31] <SpeedEvil> #blackbeesmatter
[19:55:46] <SpeedEvil> http://www.nature.com/articles/srep20936
[19:55:52] <SpeedEvil> Laser induced mortality of Anopheles stephensi mosquitoes
[19:56:53] <XXCoder> oh yeah bees is from book http://www.livescience.com/3403-star-wars-laser-kills-mosquitoes.html
[19:57:35] <SpeedEvil> 'star-wars-laser' should be nuke-pumped x-ray IMO.
[19:57:40] <SpeedEvil> Or it's false advertising
[20:05:08] <CaptHindsight> reminds me of the old SNL killer bees sketch
[20:06:02] <CaptHindsight> http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/the-killer-bees/n8622
[20:58:30] <bonhoeffer> hey -- do folks here like/use autodesk fusion 360?
[20:59:51] <XXCoder> I played with it a little, seems decent. whats up with it
[21:00:01] <XXCoder> BIG negative is cloud based storage
[21:01:40] <Duc> I still wonder if most businesses can use the cloud based storage for their files
[21:02:02] <XXCoder> I don't know if they can access designs made with fusion 360
[21:02:18] <XXCoder> so its not great idea to store protected designs
[21:02:24] <XXCoder> be back
[21:03:21] <SpeedEvil> Or, perhaps more reasonably - how secure their systems are
[21:03:58] <Duc> yea, our items are ITAR controlled and offsite storage like that would be bad
[21:03:59] <bonhoeffer> so what do folks like to use for linux cnc?
[21:04:14] <Duc> Mastercam or Ive used HSMWORKs
[21:04:36] <bonhoeffer> ok -- what about design?
[21:04:48] <bonhoeffer> what about autodesk inventor?
[21:05:24] <Duc> Ive used pro engineer and now days use solidworks
[21:06:41] <bonhoeffer> got it -- so #linux is more related to the g-code generation
[21:08:20] <Duc> nah linuxcnc just runs the g-code generate by another program
[21:08:32] <Duc> minus some special screens people have created
[21:09:47] <bonhoeffer> oh -- sorry, so linuxcnc is a specific program?
[21:10:18] <mistik1> yes, linuxcnc is machine control software
[21:11:00] <bonhoeffer> sorry for my newbie-ness anyone know of a room for general maker folks?
[21:11:23] <Duc> what are you trying to do
[21:12:13] <mistik1> and that's the right question :)
[21:14:24] <bonhoeffer> oh -- lots of stuff, just looking for the right community
[21:14:51] <bonhoeffer> right now i'm writing an add-in for fusion 360 to autodesign bookshelves from some primitive measurements
[21:14:57] <bonhoeffer> using python
[21:16:05] <SpeedEvil> openscad also
[21:16:35] <Duc> ah there should be a fusion 360 forum
[21:17:55] <XXCoder> linuxcnc does have gcode generator
[21:18:09] <XXCoder> though its only in certain ways like picture to 3d profile
[21:19:13] <bonhoeffer> got it -- let me know if there is an autodesk/fusion forum -- i can't find one
[21:19:38] <bonhoeffer> does that by definition not belong on freenode since it is not foss
[21:20:12] <enleth> there might be a ## channel in theory
[21:20:41] <bonhoeffer> off topic, but what is the diff between a # and ## channel?
[21:20:43] <enleth> ## is a customary prefix for "off topic" (that is, non-free stuff) channels,
[21:20:49] <bonhoeffer> got it
[21:21:03] <enleth> so it is allowed but needs to be marked as such
[21:21:19] <enleth> not that anyone checks it on a regular basis or something
[21:21:40] <bonhoeffer> yeah
[21:21:44] <bonhoeffer> i think photoshop is ##
[21:21:50] <XXCoder> enleth: actually no
[21:21:55] <XXCoder> # is offical
[21:21:57] <XXCoder> ## are not
[21:22:45] <enleth> XXCoder: oh, well, that could just as well be true, never bothered to check beyond being told that by others, thanks
[21:23:27] <enleth> although in practice what I said appears to hold, even if that's not the formal intention of ##
[21:23:43] <XXCoder> yeah it can work that way too
[21:23:49] <enleth> a lot of closed source stuff has ## channels here and no one makes a fuss
[21:24:58] <Duc> didnt even know there was a ## channels
[21:45:04] <CaptHindsight> also general info channels like ##biology, ##chemistry, ##kardashians
[21:47:27] <DLPeterson> does anybody here use LinuxCNC with something other than a stepper motor? I'm curious about whether a BLDC motor like the Teknic Clearpath motors would suitable. They have stepper motor replacements but also have ones that can be driven in torque, velocity, or position modes.
[21:48:32] <XXCoder> servos are supported but dunno what that is
[21:50:13] <enleth> DLPeterson: there's a lot of people here with bigger machines driven by servos
[21:51:04] <enleth> DLPeterson: in this case, velocity or torque control is supported and recommended
[21:52:42] <DLPeterson> enleth, cool. i'm thinking something like this: https://www.teknic.com/model-info/CPM-MCVC-3441S-RLN/
[21:52:44] <enleth> DLPeterson: if the drives for those motors of yours are controlled with the usual +/-10V signal and the motors/drivetrains have quadrature encoders, there are pretty simple ways to integrate this with a LinuxCNC-based control
[21:53:00] <DLPeterson> supports velocity and torque mode, has integrated motor driver and encoder on the moter
[21:53:03] <DLPeterson> motor
[21:53:44] <CaptHindsight> DLPeterson: rubber band, lab mouse and ferret drives are probably the few that aren't directly handled by Linuxcnc
[21:53:53] <DLPeterson> :)
[21:54:31] <DLPeterson> I presume linear encoders on the table are also supported?
[21:54:38] <CaptHindsight> sure
[21:54:44] <CaptHindsight> linear servos
[21:55:22] <CaptHindsight> even some limited closed protocol encoders that have been RE'd
[21:56:26] <bonhoeffer> i'm designing a box -- will be cnc'd out of plywood, with tabs connecting the right angles -- is there a rule for the optimal number/width of tabs
[21:57:09] <bonhoeffer> i'm sure really small tabs are weak, zero tabs won't hold anything -- one tab is going to take a lot of stress, etc
[22:00:01] <CaptHindsight> the more the merrier
[22:00:04] <enleth> bonhoeffer: woodworkers usually tend to use tab widths of 0.5-2 times material thickness
[22:00:54] <enleth> bonhoeffer: with a ratio closer to 0.5 for thick material and 1 or higher for thin material
[22:00:58] <CaptHindsight> sounds like a battle zone out here right now
[22:01:53] <enleth> bonhoeffer: google "box joint" or "finger joint" and switch to images to get a visual feel of what the woodworking people tend to use
[22:02:38] <enleth> bonhoeffer: you'll notice that the tabs are usually quite "flat" and numerous to maximize contact area between the parts being joined, as that's what the glue holds on to
[22:03:11] <CaptHindsight> bonhoeffer: post pics or renderings for possibly intelligent help
[22:04:25] <CaptHindsight> killerbees: give us your pollen!
[22:06:30] <pcw_home> killer bees are more disease resistant than European bees so have their virtues
[22:06:47] <CaptHindsight> virtuous bees
[22:07:03] <XXCoder> Japan have wasps size of thumbs, and their bees can kill em'
[22:07:03] <enleth> exactly, you're welcome to choose to be killed by the killer bees or the famine
[22:07:28] <XXCoder> our bees roll over and die lol
[22:08:56] <enleth> DLPeterson: roughly speaking, almost anything can be made to work with linuxcnc, it's just a matter of how many hardware shims would be needed to interface it with some I/O board that's directly supported by linuxcnc, and most "typical" hardware is usable with no shims at all
[22:11:44] <DLPeterson> enleth, cool. the motors I linked have PWM and variable frequency input modes for velocity and torque, which I/O board do you recommend for something like that?
[22:13:29] <enleth> DLPeterson: I'm sure one of the Mesa Electronics boards will handle that, you should ask pcw_home
[22:13:30] <DLPeterson> also, those motors don't expose the motor shaft encoder quadrature signals so the only position feedback would have to come from either a linear encoder on the table or a rotary encoder on the ball screw. i was hoping to do the linear encoder directly on the table
[22:14:16] <enleth> either of those will do
[22:15:20] <DLPeterson> cool
[22:15:48] <DLPeterson> i'm pretty excited about linuxcnc, seems pretty nicely designed and lot of users. now i just need to get the machine :)
[22:16:02] <bonhoeffer> enleth: that helps a ton
[22:16:09] <bonhoeffer> CaptHindsight: will do
[22:16:13] <enleth> DLPeterson: are you building from scratch or buying something for a retrofit?
[22:16:27] <DLPeterson> probably retrofit but still researching
[22:16:34] <DLPeterson> current thinking is a Grizzly G0704
[22:17:09] <enleth> I think there's more than one person here retrofitting that
[22:17:26] <DLPeterson> yeah, it seems like one of the more common ones people retrofit
[22:17:39] <enleth> or something very similar, probably off the same assembly line
[22:18:02] <DLPeterson> yeah, exactly
[22:18:22] <DLPeterson> how about you, what machine(s) do you use LinuxCNC on?
[22:20:45] <enleth> I'm in the process of refitting a Bridgeport Series 1 MDI - albeit slowly, because it works with the original control for now and I don't have the money to do it all at once
[22:21:38] <enleth> so I'm bench-testing stuff pulled out of the mill, then putting it back together and ordering whatever's missing to get it fully working, then another round of the same
[22:22:24] <DLPeterson> nice
[22:22:44] <DLPeterson> i worked on a series 1 for a couple years in grad school
[22:22:58] <DLPeterson> fond memories :)
[22:23:01] <enleth> that's a brushed DC servo machine, so I'm using a set of Mesa 6i25 and 7i77 boards
[22:23:11] <enleth> manual or CNC series 1?
[22:23:36] <DLPeterson> manual with a 1st gen Accu-rite
[22:24:06] <enleth> ah, so that's actually a completely different iron
[22:24:14] <DLPeterson> oh, ok
[22:24:18] <enleth> they did several different designs under the Series 1 name
[22:24:33] <os1r1s> DLPeterson I just finished CNCing a pm25mv
[22:24:43] <os1r1s> DLPeterson Same class as a g0704 with a few refinements
[22:25:25] <DLPeterson> os1r1s, nice! I was checking out the PM models -- any major differences from the grizzly?
[22:25:45] <os1r1s> DLPeterson Belt drive brushless DC drive is the biggest
[22:25:59] <enleth> DLPeterson: there was a manual Series 1 mill, a bunch of CNC'd versions based on the manual machine castings with very little modifications, and finally a bunch of dedicated CNC machines with a rigid ram, saddle-mounted X servo instead of having it hang off the table like a power feed retrofit, and a comparment in the knee for the Y servo so it doesn't bump your legs
[22:26:41] <os1r1s> DLPeterson It has the 3 bolt head mount (which I think g0704s have now
[22:26:43] <os1r1s> )
[22:27:05] <CaptHindsight> I haer that Chipotle will be serving all its food on plates made of this soon http://phys.org/news/2016-06-material-coli-bacteria-seconds.html
[22:27:06] <os1r1s> DLPeterson And it has a solid column mount
[22:27:12] <DLPeterson> enleth, if i recall correctly, the one we ordered was BPKMR8XY
[22:27:18] <DLPeterson> and they we added some other stuff to it
[22:27:23] <enleth> DLPeterson: mine is the latter kind. 1/3 heavier than the manual iron, probably doesn't share any casting directly with the manual one
[22:27:50] <enleth> maybe saddle, I'm not sure
[22:28:16] <os1r1s> DLPeterson https://www.dropbox.com/s/4fimeazqivzgoio/pm25mvrtg.jpg?dl=0
[22:29:24] <DLPeterson> os1r1s, that is awesome. which motors are those on your XYZ axes?
[22:29:25] <enleth> DLPeterson: yeah, standard 2J2 manual
[22:29:36] <DLPeterson> Are they teknic?
[22:29:37] <os1r1s> DLPeterson Teknic clearpath servos
[22:29:39] <os1r1s> Yes
[22:29:42] <os1r1s> They fucking rock
[22:29:46] <os1r1s> Excuse my language :)
[22:29:47] <enleth> DLPeterson: actually the only identical casting might be the knee pedestal, even the saddle looks different
[22:29:47] <DLPeterson> yep they do!
[22:29:57] <DLPeterson> enleth, interesting
[22:30:12] <DLPeterson> os1r1s, did you buy the clearpath models that act like steppers?
[22:30:28] <DLPeterson> os1r1s, or did you go with one of the position/velocity/torque mode versions?
[22:30:29] <os1r1s> DLPeterson They take a step/dir signal from a mesa 7i76
[22:30:35] <DLPeterson> ok
[22:31:27] <enleth> DLPeterson: https://gallery.hackerspace.pl/Bridgeport - some photos of getting that thing delivered and taken apart to get it inside the shop
[22:31:49] <enleth> you'll notice it's a completely different machine
[22:32:05] <DLPeterson> os1r1s, did you consider going with the MCVC option and supplying it a velocity or torque command?
[22:32:18] <os1r1s> I did for a bit
[22:32:46] <os1r1s> And talked to them. But step/dir with feedback seemed to be the best option
[22:33:09] <DLPeterson> os1r1s, what made you go with the stepper options (presumably SDHP or SDSK option?)
[22:33:27] <os1r1s> DLPeterson Well, keep in mind they are still servos
[22:33:30] <os1r1s> Not steppers
[22:33:31] <os1r1s> :)
[22:34:00] <DLPeterson> right, but they interface electrically like a stepper so you have to generate the same kind of signal
[22:34:11] <os1r1s> DLPeterson https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkNwCDGQW-c
[22:34:41] <DLPeterson> cool
[22:35:34] <DLPeterson> os1r1s, besides the spindle motor any other noticeable differences?
[22:35:57] <os1r1s> DLPeterson I wanted to go with the torque/velocity option, but htere was a lot to the conversion
[22:36:17] <os1r1s> So I decided to go step/dir to take that bit of guesswork out of it
[22:36:21] <DLPeterson> any forum posts on the subject worth reading?
[22:36:37] <os1r1s> And I think I get all the same benefits, so I'm set for now :)
[22:36:47] <os1r1s> DLPeterson No, I can't find many who went down this path
[22:36:59] <os1r1s> The motor/gearbox on the g0704 sucks
[22:37:08] <os1r1s> So you need to plan on changing that first thing
[22:37:52] <CaptHindsight> http://www.migration.g0704.com/images/g0704.jpg one of these?
[22:38:53] <CaptHindsight> you are really better off starting with a bridgeport...
[22:39:15] <CaptHindsight> but if it's already bought, oh well
[22:39:51] <DLPeterson> os1r1s, yeah, i guess if the PM25MV one doesn't need changing and i can't do it myself for less than the difference in their price ($325 or so) it is probably just simpler to get the PM
[22:40:09] <os1r1s> DLPeterson That's where my head was at
[22:40:32] <os1r1s> DLPeterson I found kits that you could drop in for $300
[22:40:37] <DLPeterson> is the stock one in the PM something you'll never feel the urge to change?
[22:40:50] <os1r1s> DLPeterson My only irritation with it is the speed
[22:40:57] <os1r1s> Up to 2500
[22:41:15] <os1r1s> But everything else is good
[22:41:19] <os1r1s> DLPeterson Where are you locateD?
[22:42:14] <enleth> it's actually mildly funny that I might have spent less on the bridgeport and all the new parts I bought for it than some people pay for a tabletop chunk of jelly-grade chinese iron and a bunch of retrofit kits
[22:42:30] <DLPeterson> os1r1s, san jose
[22:42:55] <DLPeterson> enleth, how much are you into your BP?
[22:43:09] <enleth> spendings-wise?
[22:43:15] <os1r1s> DLPeterson If I wasn't deadset on wanting to use servos, the tormach 440 would have been really tempting
[22:44:22] <enleth> paid $1500 for it, going by the current exchange rate, plus less than $1000 for replacement parts and stuff needed to retrofit it, I'm expecting $500 more for a new servo power supply and that might be it
[22:45:15] <enleth> OTOH, the guy I bought it from had no idea what he'd been actually selling and how much it's worth
[22:46:39] <enleth> he was a used machine peddler dealing in woodworking equipment, who got the bridgeport by accident in a larger shipment from a bankrupt furniture factory
[22:47:06] <DLPeterson> os1r1s, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TryxbEaxvZk
[22:48:24] <enleth> he said people were calling him asking if the machine is operational and ready to make money with - and he wasn't even sure how to turn it on
[22:48:45] <DLPeterson> enleth, that is pretty sweet. if i could find a BP at that price I might go that route too
[22:49:03] <enleth> no wonder - the configuration memory backup batteries died and the control had no idea what it's supposed to drive
[22:50:05] <enleth> it was a heck of a day trying to ass pull a usable set of machine parameters to get it working and see if it's actually OK or not - in a barn doubling as a machine storage shed
[22:50:37] <DLPeterson> os1r1s, which ball screws did you put on your PM?
[22:51:30] <os1r1s> DLPeterson Ones from ArizonaVideo
[22:53:06] <os1r1s> I can get you his email addy if you go that route
[22:53:15] <os1r1s> He sells g0704 kits too
[22:54:05] <enleth> DLPeterson: if you're going to look for a bridgeport to retrofit, see if you can get something that looks like mine, especially around the knee and saddle
[22:54:27] <enleth> DLPeterson: you'd be *really* better off using iron that accomodates the X and Y motors properly
[22:55:02] <DLPeterson> os1r1s, watching a video from him now
[22:55:25] <enleth> DLPeterson: manual bridgeports are a bitch to retrofit, with motors sticking out in awkward places, putting undue strain on the table and increasing the machine's space requirements significantly
[22:55:47] <DLPeterson> os1r1s, which model of teknic's did you go with exactly?
[22:55:57] <os1r1s> One min
[22:59:53] <os1r1s> DLPeterson CPM-SDSK-3421S-RLN x1 CPM-SDSK-2331S-RLN x1
[23:00:15] <os1r1s> DLPeterson And the IPC5 power supply
[23:01:05] <DLPeterson> os1r1s, cool, thanks. which one one x and which one on y? no z?
[23:01:20] <os1r1s> Crap
[23:01:27] <os1r1s> CPM-SDSK-2331S-RLN for x/y
[23:01:39] <os1r1s> nema23 ...
[23:01:48] <os1r1s> Z is a nema34
[23:04:36] <CaptHindsight> " with motors sticking out in awkward places, putting undue strain on the table"
[23:08:40] <XXCoder> enleth: unless it was automatic manual bridgeport
[23:08:50] <XXCoder> I used one that was pretty well done, and it was nice
[23:09:11] <XXCoder> its basically already there, just need controller and computer to bhe fully cnc
[23:09:18] <enleth> XXCoder: so how were the X and Y motors mounted?
[23:09:56] <XXCoder> I don't know on Y, it still had normal handle stuff, so I assume its in other side inside
[23:10:15] <XXCoder> while X motor is on other side normal handle and it does not get in way for normal manual use too
[23:10:26] <XXCoder> it does not have automatic Z in any form
[23:10:38] <enleth> XXCoder: so the X motor was at the end of the table?
[23:10:59] <XXCoder> yeah suprising out of way
[23:12:05] <enleth> that's still a problem with power feeds and retrofits on manual bridgeports - they tend to have a 42" table, which was the most popular table length for a very long time, and the weight of the motor and transmission pulls on the very end of it
[23:12:36] <XXCoder> I call it automatic mamnual because its still manual, but can do basic programming (definitely not gcode!) to do some stuff
[23:12:44] <XXCoder> like circles and run along one side or whgatever
[23:12:52] <enleth> after several decades those tables are bent from it unless great care is taken to park it with the motor side close to the saddle at all times
[23:13:03] <XXCoder> "program" cannot be loaded or saved, have to write it yourself each time
[23:13:16] <XXCoder> enleth: interesting
[23:13:44] <enleth> that's something to look out for when buying an old bridgeport with a power feed
[23:14:06] <enleth> always check for a sagging table end
[23:14:19] <XXCoder> does it apply for large full size knee mill type?
[23:14:40] <enleth> yes
[23:15:05] <XXCoder> ok. I doubt I will buy any of manual (or converted manual to cnc) mill but good to know
[23:16:12] <os1r1s> DLPeterson https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fb_8AnqiKa4
[23:16:12] <enleth> the manual bridgeport table is relatively thin and has no coolant troughs around it that provide additional rigidity, so a 42" type is quite prone to sagging from the weight of a power feed unit
[23:16:45] <XXCoder> nice
[23:16:46] <enleth> that does take decades to set in, but many used bridgeports are easily 40 years old
[23:17:02] <XXCoder> yeah mills tend to live quite long while
[23:17:27] <XXCoder> we use I guess around 30 year old mill cnc at work
[23:17:32] <XXCoder> fadal 88
[23:18:04] <CaptHindsight> my BP is over 50
[23:18:29] <CaptHindsight> no sagging
[23:18:36] <enleth> mine is 35 years old now, but it's got a much shorter table and a saddle-mounted X motor so sagging wasn't a concern for me
[23:19:36] <enleth> although I do take care to always park the table in the middle and all the way back against the column, just to be sure
[23:20:35] <CaptHindsight> somebody managed to score the quill about 2" up from the bottom
[23:20:51] <enleth> how?
[23:21:14] <CaptHindsight> like they attached a pipe cutter to it when it was fully extended
[23:21:25] <enleth> holy crap
[23:21:29] <CaptHindsight> kids
[23:22:03] <CaptHindsight> have to fix the clutch, it's stuck in Low right now
[23:22:12] <enleth> and I though over 10 drill marks and 4 drilled and tapped holes in the table of mine was atrocious
[23:22:15] <CaptHindsight> other than that it's about perfect
[23:22:39] <CaptHindsight> well it was kind of them to tap them
[23:23:15] <enleth> I'm still wondering if that's intentional or someone actually drilled and tapped through a part that deep and didn't realize they were machining the table
[23:23:22] <CaptHindsight> you wonder were the parts clamped to the table when they didn't notice how deeply they drilled
[23:23:30] <enleth> exactly
[23:23:47] <CaptHindsight> and then went right on to tap them
[23:23:53] <enleth> the holes are over an inch deep
[23:24:00] <enleth> the tapped ones, I mean
[23:24:26] <enleth> the rest are just drill nose-shaped gouges
[23:24:35] <CaptHindsight> i have one of those about 3/4" dia not sure how deep but it was filled with weld and ground flat
[23:25:12] <enleth> well, I could actually have all those holes brazed and ground
[23:25:45] <enleth> as far as I know, it's much better than welding for cast iron parts of this size
[23:26:18] <enleth> but there's no need to do that really, unless I decide to resurface the whole table at the same time
[23:27:26] <enleth> it's all scratched up but still flat as far as clamping stuff to it is concerned
[23:40:11] <DLPeterson> os1r1s, besides not including the stand, it seems like the LMS 5500 is the same as the PM-25MV, http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=5500&category=1387807683
[23:41:05] <DLPeterson> os1r1s, also has no head tilt, which can be a feature depending on how you look at it
[23:41:39] <CaptHindsight> DLPeterson: how are you with casting epoxy granite?
[23:44:06] <DLPeterson> CaptHindsight, i'm a pro
[23:44:24] <DLPeterson> CaptHindsight, actually i have no idea what you are really asking :)
[23:44:37] <XXCoder> bah I was about to ask some questions
[23:45:21] <DLPeterson> reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epoxy_granite now
[23:45:28] <CaptHindsight> https://www.academia.edu/8322378/Influence_of_Resin_Content_and_Cast_Iron_Powder_Addition_on_Vibration_Characteristics_of_Granite_Epoxy_Composites
[23:45:28] <DLPeterson> should be an expert in like 3 min
[23:46:09] <CaptHindsight> http://www.mech.utah.edu/~me7960/lectures/Topic14-DesignOfMachineStructures.pdf
[23:47:51] <CaptHindsight> DLPeterson: and here's a 9 year thread on epoxy granite machine bases http://www.cnczone.com/forums/epoxy-granite/30155-epoxy-granite-machine-bases-polymer-concrete-frame.html
[23:48:03] <DLPeterson> huh, super interesting
[23:48:12] <XXCoder> too bad its not common
[23:48:20] <XXCoder> or there'd be more homebrew researches
[23:48:23] <DLPeterson> i've never heard of this
[23:48:39] <XXCoder> it cost few hundred bucks to start, but after project you can make lot more before needing more
[23:48:39] <CaptHindsight> $1500 is better spent this way if you have the skill and time
[23:49:23] <XXCoder> OR you can grab a used Surface and build it into cnc
[23:49:27] <XXCoder> heard of that
[23:49:46] <XXCoder> LeelooMinai: you here?
[23:49:48] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: nearly 5K comments on the thread over 9 years, it's not uncommon
[23:51:41] <DLPeterson> CaptHindsight, which parts of the machine are people thinking/trying to make from epoxy granite? base and bed and column?
[23:51:59] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33 are you there? <clicking ruby slippers>
[23:52:22] <CaptHindsight> DLPeterson: yes
[23:52:41] <CaptHindsight> DLPeterson: read this http://www.mech.utah.edu/~me7960/lectures/Topic14-DesignOfMachineStructures.pdf
[23:53:10] <os1r1s> DLPeterson The head does tilt
[23:53:18] <os1r1s> DLPeterson The column doesn't
[23:54:21] <DLPeterson> os1r1s, i don't think the LMS 5500 head tilts, from what i can tell it is a fixed column and head
[23:54:28] <DLPeterson> CaptHindsight, checking it out
[23:56:10] <DLPeterson> CaptHindsight, do you have any examples of people doing this for small DIY/hobby projects?
[23:56:10] <CaptHindsight> skip to page 21
[23:56:42] <CaptHindsight> DLPeterson: that 5k long thread on cnczone
[23:57:49] <DLPeterson> CaptHindsight, forum page 21 or PDF page 21?
[23:58:47] <DLPeterson> oh, i think i see
[23:58:48] <DLPeterson> wow
[23:59:34] <CaptHindsight> Valen: you around? He made on a few years ago