#linuxcnc | Logs for 2016-06-21

[01:49:21] <root-x> Some method to add optical encoder to a stepper witouth rear shaft?
[01:51:10] <enleth> is the end of the shaft visible at all?
[01:54:39] <root-x> Yes vissible but hidden 10mm from the housing
[01:55:01] <root-x> flat rear
[01:56:14] <enleth> the encoder doesn't need any significant torque at all, so a shaft extension could be glued on
[01:56:49] <enleth> it would be best to center drill the shaft first and machine the extension with a centering pin
[01:57:04] <root-x> http://www.hobbycncaustralia.com.au/images/Instructions/9wirestepper/925connectrail.jpg
[01:57:10] <root-x> like this mor or less
[01:57:17] <enleth> but you'd have to do that without taking the rotor out, hybrid motors don't like having their rotors taken out of the assembly
[01:57:30] <enleth> do you have a lathe?
[01:57:47] <root-x> Good idea,
[01:58:05] <root-x> Not for me enleth
[01:58:47] <enleth> anyway, even without a center hole a short piece of extension shaft superglued to the actual shaft will do
[01:58:55] <enleth> just make sure not to let the glue in the bearing
[01:59:04] <enleth> and take some care to center the extension
[02:00:57] <enleth> oh, and it doesns't have to be steel
[02:01:05] <enleth> a plastic rod should do fine
[02:01:45] <root-x> The machined option is the correct with a screw
[02:02:20] <root-x> And some adaptation for the encoder
[02:02:42] <root-x> Ok.
[02:02:48] <enleth> when you think about it - you should be able to get away with using a small round magnet glued into a pocket in a shaft extension
[02:22:07] <Deejay> moin
[02:22:09] <archivist> root-x, belt drive from the other end
[02:33:00] <root-x> Not possible archivist, The front shaft is not accessible.
[02:37:06] <archivist> make it so, add an extension
[02:38:27] <archivist> there are also encoders you can put inline with hole through them, also you can attach to the other end of your screw/whatever
[02:39:30] <archivist> but the real question why stepper when a servo works with an encoder nicely
[02:49:27] <archivist> I done believe in "not possible" either
[02:49:32] <archivist> dont
[02:51:23] <archivist> enleth, got a spectrum out of the spectralyser yesterday, a mouse was sacrificed for the opto to repair the encoder
[03:46:04] <trentster> Howdy all, want some advice from any folks who have machined HDPE in the past. I am thinking of using it as a precision casting form instead of using aluminium. Is there any reason to think it should not surface as flat or as smooth as aluminium for casting purposes?
[03:47:51] <archivist> I would imagine al will be easier to polish out imperfections
[03:49:15] <trentster> this form is going to hold inserts for mounting linear rail, so I am mainly concerned with surface flatness and consistency after milling
[03:50:47] <archivist> I cant see spastic being rigid enough to hold a shape in the casting process
[03:52:03] <archivist> but, whatever you do think about making the resulting casting flat afterwards
[03:52:09] <trentster> archivist: the form is casting thin beams 780mm x 60mm x 60mm so not really a lot of weight pushing against the form sides
[03:52:46] <trentster> I was hoping 20mm or 25mm thick HDPE would be strong enough to resist deformation
[03:53:41] <archivist> you can work out the pressure at a depth in the mould
[03:55:29] <archivist> sand or resin or what
[03:55:50] <trentster> So assuming its strong enough to resist shape shifting during casting, do you reckon the machinability of the surface in terms of flatness would be comparable to using aluminium?
[03:56:22] <trentster> its Polymer Concrete ( or what some folks call epoxy granite)
[03:57:00] <archivist> not really, it will flex when you bolt it to the mill then unflex after
[03:57:35] <archivist> as does any material to some extent
[03:58:09] <trentster> archivist: yeah great point! - I forgot to factor that in and I knew there was a reason to avoid using it. that makes sense.
[03:59:18] <archivist> this is another reason to thing how you adjust later after the castin
[04:03:04] <trentster> what do you mean adjust later after the casting?
[04:03:40] <trentster> do you mean for e.g. if you cast in metal and want to mill it flat after its cured?
[04:03:47] <archivist> yes
[04:04:20] <trentster> yeah, but that wont be an issue after the polymer concrete is cured the metal will not move
[04:04:33] <archivist> or you will have to place shims under the rails to maintain straight
[04:05:30] <archivist> you seem to be thinking in one plane of flat, think side to side straight as well
[04:08:48] <trentster> hmmm, you have lost me
[04:09:37] <trentster> if you machine a metal bar after its been cast into the concrete and you then make your rail holes with a cnc machine in a straight line how will the plane change?
[04:09:38] <archivist> what are the beams for
[04:10:30] <archivist> casting metal into the concrete and then machining is the right idea
[04:12:23] <trentster> the beams are for a modular CNC machine build system
[04:46:33] <root-x> enletech finally i purchased some round magnets for tests... their have 1.7kg of force and a max temperature of 80 celsius
[04:46:39] <root-x> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/ODAwWDgwMA==/z/BQEAAOSwBLlVYusL/$_57.JPG
[04:47:18] <root-x> enleth
[04:47:51] <enleth> oh, that type should be easy to screw onto the end of the encoder's shaft
[04:51:28] <root-x> 12x5x bore 4mm
[04:52:41] <XXCoder> boo
[05:05:29] <jthornton> morning
[05:12:49] <XXCoder> .. of terror!
[05:20:29] <jthornton> it will be if the hoe acts up today
[05:23:40] <XXCoder> lol
[05:26:41] <jthornton> damn fuel filter was clogged yesterday and I had to go to town get a new one then put it in etc... wasted 2 hrs of digging time
[05:27:18] <jthornton> I'm so close to finishing the big dig it ain't funny
[05:32:22] <XXCoder> sucks
[05:32:27] <XXCoder> manual dig? heh
[05:33:24] <jthornton> http://gnipsel.com/images/equipment-shed/big-dig-08.jpg
[05:33:33] <jthornton> the tools I have to dig with
[05:34:58] <jthornton> http://gnipsel.com/images/equipment-shed/logs.jpg
[05:35:16] <jthornton> http://gnipsel.com/images/equipment-shed/rounds.jpg
[05:36:04] <XXCoder> whats project anyway
[05:36:09] <jthornton> need to contact the lumber guy and see what he will pay for the logs
[05:36:34] <jthornton> 30 x 50 x 12 wood framed metal skin building
[05:37:41] <XXCoder> a shop
[05:37:42] <XXCoder> ?
[05:39:40] <XXCoder> chopping up some more HDPE bottles yayyy :P
[05:40:01] <XXCoder> by weekend I will have quite large bag of hdpe peices to melt
[05:41:06] <jthornton> a place to work on and store equipment and get stuff out of my shop so I have room to work
[05:41:55] <jthornton> http://gnipsel.com/images/blast-cabinet/Blast%20Cabinet%2026.JPG
[05:42:05] <jthornton> getting closer on the blast cabinet
[05:42:10] <XXCoder> nice
[05:42:22] <jthornton> http://gnipsel.com/images/blast-cabinet/Blast%20Cabinet%2025.JPG
[05:42:24] <XXCoder> I see you have odd looking cnc
[05:42:34] <XXCoder> looks like laser?
[05:42:47] <jthornton> dang window opening warped when I welded it so the angle is to flatten it out
[05:42:51] <jthornton> plasma
[05:43:14] <XXCoder> good idea to stuiffen that anyway
[05:43:43] <jthornton> another project I can't wait to finish...
[05:44:02] <jthornton> I have some stuff to blast that won't fit in the old toy blast cabinet
[05:44:26] <jthornton> http://gnipsel.com/images/blast-cabinet/extension-04.jpg
[05:45:01] <XXCoder> lol
[05:45:28] <archivist> use the nooooo shed as an even larger blast cabinet
[05:46:11] <jthornton> use the outdoors as an even larger blast zone
[05:46:13] <XXCoder> use outside as effectively infinite blast sheild
[05:47:16] <archivist> I do use outdoors as storage and a workshop area when I run out of space inside
[05:49:12] <jthornton> me too all my equipment lives outside atm
[05:50:19] <jthornton> http://gnipsel.com/images/splitter/splitter-27.jpg
[05:50:29] <jthornton> that one is inside but takes up too much room
[05:50:47] <jthornton> http://gnipsel.com/images/splitter/splitter-30.jpg
[05:50:54] <XXCoder> ask doc who on how to expand your interior space
[05:51:56] <jthornton> set off the cannon inside?
[05:52:20] <XXCoder> lol
[05:53:05] <jthornton> made this for a buddy a while back out of an old trailer http://gnipsel.com/images/log-arch/log-arch-16.jpg
[05:56:22] <XXCoder> bag of hdpe hips is bigger heh
[05:56:27] <XXCoder> 12 bottles total now
[05:56:55] <XXCoder> *chips
[05:58:59] <jthornton> what are you doing with the hdpe?
[05:59:12] <XXCoder> I plan to make one or maybe more blocks of em
[05:59:23] <XXCoder> then mill it
[05:59:29] <jthornton> cool
[05:59:30] <XXCoder> not too sure what exact plan is on that
[06:01:01] <XXCoder> have yet to figure what mold to use
[06:01:13] <XXCoder> is there any kitchen stuff thats square and not tapered
[06:03:33] <SpeedEvil> yes, but if you don't have it, ...
[06:03:46] <XXCoder> store
[06:03:47] <SpeedEvil> cake molds in principle would work well - possibly not for the temp
[06:04:02] <jthornton> what temp does it take to melt the hdpe?
[06:04:05] <SpeedEvil> these have detachable bases and cylindrical tops
[06:04:18] <XXCoder> dont think i want round molds
[06:04:25] <XXCoder> jthornton: just 200f to 250f
[06:04:57] <SpeedEvil> ah
[06:05:13] <SpeedEvil> Actually properly square boxes are rare in nature
[06:05:16] <XXCoder> yeah not too hard to melt heh
[06:05:30] <XXCoder> I dont really care about exact sqare
[06:05:32] <SpeedEvil> It doesn't go properly molten at 250F though
[06:05:44] <SpeedEvil> If you only want to hit 250F, plywood
[06:06:54] <XXCoder> hmm ok
[06:09:34] <_methods> omg this.......LOL
[06:09:36] <_methods> https://hackaday.com/2016/06/20/hackaday-prize-entry-diy-automatic-tool-changer/
[06:11:04] <XXCoder> oh brother
[06:11:09] <XXCoder> that is brilliant hack
[06:11:34] <_methods> brilliant is definitely not the word i'd use to describe that
[06:11:39] <SpeedEvil> I was imagining something different
[06:11:51] <_methods> something less stupid perhaps?
[06:12:07] <_methods> rube goldberg toolchanger lol
[06:12:17] <SpeedEvil> 3d vision plus robot arm, plus voice recognition as a smart toolbox to place the requested tool in your hand.
[06:12:20] <_methods> the clown is using wifi to control it too lol
[06:12:57] <jthornton> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-urB9uKrkM
[06:13:11] <SpeedEvil> Eww. And shitty grip-sockets
[06:13:11] <_methods> looks like it takes up 1/4 of his working envelope too lol
[06:13:32] <XXCoder> router version https://youtu.be/jHofj3efzfo
[06:13:35] <_methods> it's hilariously slow too
[06:13:45] <SpeedEvil> way faster than manual
[06:13:48] <_methods> that gif on hackaday is speed up like 1000x
[06:13:57] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[06:14:25] <SpeedEvil> But if you can piss off and leave it for a couple of hours, it can still do a hundred toolchanges easily
[06:14:33] <_methods> definitely qualifies for the "hack" part
[06:14:44] <XXCoder> yeah the reason i used that word
[06:14:47] <_methods> i doubt those tools will just fall out
[06:14:59] <_methods> they're so light they'll end up hanging in the changer
[06:15:09] <SpeedEvil> I question how repeatably it's gripping though, yes, and any sawdust
[06:16:01] <XXCoder> router version has spring inside collet
[06:16:26] <XXCoder> the cnc router is nicer one really
[06:16:28] <XXCoder> and faster
[06:18:21] <archivist> ew what a bodge
[06:18:27] <_methods> right
[06:18:38] <XXCoder> other ones worse
[06:19:46] <archivist> one of the slowest loading pages too, worse than mine!
[06:20:37] <_methods> hahah well yours provides a valuable service, unlike that guys page
[06:21:07] <archivist> just running pagespeed on the hackaday page
[06:21:22] <_methods> yeah hackaday went to shit after they sold out
[06:21:28] <_methods> all the brains left i believe
[06:21:41] <XXCoder> let me know if brains ever gather
[06:22:00] <_methods> all the brains left there and started dangerous prototypes
[06:22:13] <_methods> they actually have useful stuff now
[06:22:16] <_methods> unlike hackaday
[06:22:25] <SpeedEvil> yeah - well - when your buisness model is spreading over 18 pages...
[06:23:05] <_methods> i only look at hackaday now for the lulz
[06:23:13] <_methods> to laugh at stuff like this they post now
[06:24:22] <_methods> http://dangerousprototypes.com/blog/
[06:24:51] <_methods> they actually have interesting and useful stuff on there
[06:25:52] <XXCoder> solvespace aricle there
[06:25:56] <XXCoder> geez
[06:26:35] <XXCoder> its been around for a while, though dev is VERY slow
[06:26:48] <_methods> wtf is dev
[06:26:54] <XXCoder> dvelopment
[06:27:11] <_methods> yeah they don't waste their time with shit posts
[06:28:14] <_methods> the project logs in the forums are pretty good too
[06:28:35] <_methods> one of the guys in there is doing a pretty spiffy open source soldering iron controller
[06:28:54] <_methods> http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=7218
[06:34:31] <jthornton> burning daylight time to dig
[06:38:52] <XXCoder> burning darkness time to bed
[06:46:45] <motioncontrol> Hi . I have see the bug in actual master on real and sim machine. If you move the machine with pin halui.jog.0.plus(true) and have signal axis.0.pos-lim-sw-in(true), the maschine is OFF. now if you have axis.0.pos-lim-sw-in(false) and halui.jog.0.plus(false) and want power on machine with pin halui.machine.on(true), the mochine not power on. this problem we can simulate in axis interface with halcmd the pin before.
[06:46:45] <motioncontrol> for resolve temporanealy the problem , i have add comment at file taskinf.cc at line 615 at 625./* if (joint->flag & EMCMOT_JOINT_ERROR_BIT) { if (stat[axis].status != RCS_ERROR) { rcs_print_error("Error on axis %d, command number %d\n", axis, emcmotStatus.commandNumEcho); stat[axis].status = RCS_ERROR; } } else if (joint->flag & EMCMOT_JOINT_INPOS_BIT) { stat[axis].status = RCS_DONE; } else { st
[06:46:46] <motioncontrol> at[axis].status = RCS_EXEC; } */. please advise some developer for resolve this problem
[06:48:12] <archivist> add a bug to the bug tracker
[06:51:00] <motioncontrol> archivist, excuse i dont' have exspert for this . please inform some developer for fix it. the bug is real , i thing it introduced the last code add on source the master.
[06:51:36] <archivist> adding a bug to the bug tracker is how the devs get informed
[06:53:27] <XXCoder> yeah its not hard
[06:55:30] <XXCoder> just do what happened, what SHOULD happen, some more details on how to repeat the bug
[06:55:32] <XXCoder> done
[06:55:40] <XXCoder> *overview on
[06:56:39] <motioncontrol> ok thanks
[09:00:03] <plpower> Guten Tag servus good milling
[09:00:27] <plpower> Q: is it posible to use 3 induktive switches on one relai
[09:00:44] <plpower> as they output all positiv
[09:00:55] <plpower> or will there be a hint on
[09:04:12] <plpower> got it
[09:04:14] <plpower> http://images.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http://www.schoenbuch-electronic.de/fileadmin/_processed_/csm_Bild22b_d13e2cc688.png&imgrefurl=http://www.schoenbuch-electronic.de/index.php%3Fid%3D203&h=175&w=500&tbnid=yd3wqPN8KojhgM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=257&docid=GtRU1eqCy0BuwM&usg=__s0XiTqcCeUwjZJ4lce8WHqqGGkM=&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjl9sSonrnNAhUJXBoKHf8fBJkQ9QEITzAH
[09:04:39] <plpower> bye from cnc shop in germany
[09:19:20] <landau> hello...do you know if there is a repo where I can download more recent RTAI kernel for my linuxcnc debian wheezy?
[09:21:41] <landau> noone can help me?
[09:21:48] <cradek> nope there isn't, and if you did that, the linuxcnc packages we distribute would stop working on your system
[09:21:53] <cradek> what problem are you trying to solve?
[09:23:21] <landau> I have an Intel Atom D2700
[09:27:05] <SpeedEvil> I have a puppy.
[09:27:29] <landau> I was wondering to optimize the kernel for Intel Atom
[09:27:38] <cradek> heh I think that's a polite way of saying you haven't adequately explained the problem you are trying to solve
[09:27:57] <cradek> does the linuxcnc cd's rtai kernel not run on that?
[09:28:04] <SpeedEvil> Why do you want to optimise the kernel for that.
[09:28:14] <cradek> tell us more
[09:28:43] <landau> and also to install the Intel GPU
[09:29:57] <landau> so I downloaded a new kernel I tried to compile it with RTAI and also I compiled Linuxcnc with the new kernel but at the end when I execute the compiled version of Linuxcnc it doesen't work
[09:30:06] <cradek> if it boots and runs and you get graphics and working opengl I suggest you happily use it for linuxcnc and not change anything
[09:30:31] <cradek> it can be very hard to compile an rtai kernel
[09:30:38] <cradek> ... and have it work right
[09:30:48] <landau> so on this chat someone suggeseted me to use the .deb packages
[09:31:07] <landau> what's the newest workink RTAI kernel?
[09:31:23] <cradek> the one on the linuxcnc cd
[09:31:42] <cradek> (if you mean working for the linuxcnc deb packages we distribute)
[09:31:49] <landau> ok
[09:31:58] <landau> I read about kernel 3.16.7 with RTAI 5.0
[09:32:25] <landau> do you know if there are .deb ready to install packages for that?
[09:32:27] <cradek> I don't know whether that would work with linuxcnc - please let us know if you try it
[09:32:52] <landau> http://linuxcnc.org/2015/11/29/new-rtai-kernel/
[09:32:59] <cradek> almost certain there are not. the rtai project does not ever release anything but patches/source.
[09:33:30] <landau> I should install debian jessie
[09:34:52] <cradek> possibly, if you want to do development or packaging of rtai/linuxcnc
[09:35:12] <cradek> if you just want to use linuxcnc you should use the linuxcnc.org kernel and packages as-is whenever possible
[09:35:16] <landau> I tried but the last step is not working
[09:35:54] <landau> when I try to execute Linuxcnc it tells me that it can't insert an RTAI module on the kernel
[09:37:56] <cradek> if you give the exact error message someone might have an idea, but more likely someone would have to know all the steps you have done leading up to that error, to offer help
[09:38:05] <landau> http://pastebin.com/raw/zVEiuKUC
[09:38:31] <cradek> hmm all rt symbols missing
[09:38:38] <cradek> I don't know from that what is wrong
[09:39:02] <cradek> kernel patched or configured or built wrong, probably
[09:39:26] <landau> is it possible that this issue is caused by GPU drivers?
[09:39:41] <landau> which are not compatible with RTAI?
[09:39:48] <cradek> no, much more basic problem than that
[09:39:52] <landau> ok
[09:40:20] <landau> I was able to compile the kernel with the corrent RTAI patch
[09:40:33] <cradek> do the rtai tests run and pass?
[09:40:45] <landau> I don't know
[09:40:50] <cradek> start there
[09:40:53] <landau> I shoud test it
[09:41:40] <landau> when I will come back home
[09:41:50] <cradek> cool
[10:08:54] <archivist> I know some problems are interesting to solve but RTAI aint one of them :)
[10:20:40] <CaptHindsight> building RTAI is above his pay grade, he's been asking about this since yesterday, he skipped some step or did something goofy
[10:21:30] <cradek> I am still not sure whether he is having an actual problem with the existing kernel
[10:22:33] <CaptHindsight> Alec saw his dmesg and shook his head and just walked away
[10:22:41] <archivist> I think chasing "latest" as some do
[10:24:48] <CaptHindsight> too broken to fix and the guy has an attitude so he didn't want to bother helping
[10:34:47] <roycroft> so, folks, i have my new vfd
[10:35:13] <roycroft> it looks like it is fairly capable, and while the manual isn't exactly written in engrish, it's also not very clear
[10:35:44] <roycroft> does anyone have a recommended source for a concise, clear explanation of how vfds work, and how to tune them?
[10:36:01] <roycroft> this is an inverter model, which i believe is the most common type
[10:36:22] <cradek> is it V/f or vector?
[10:37:01] <cradek> for V/f you enter a few numbers from the motor's plate and it mostly starts working
[10:37:15] <roycroft> i don't know the difference at this point
[10:37:24] <roycroft> but yes, i get that part
[10:37:44] <roycroft> i enter the base voltage, base frequency, base speed, amp rating from the plate
[10:37:54] <cradek> is there something like a quickstart in the manual? the ones I've seen say: here are the four or five things you really need to configure
[10:37:56] <roycroft> there are a bunch of torque parameters
[10:38:05] <roycroft> voltage per herz parameters
[10:38:13] <roycroft> ramp up and down parameters
[10:38:16] <cradek> ok that's V/f mode then
[10:38:26] <enleth> roycroft: there might also be a setting for armature inductance, important if the motor isn't anywhere close to the default value
[10:38:33] <roycroft> i know i can get it going
[10:38:37] <cradek> ramp times you can guess by ear
[10:38:40] <roycroft> the basics are clear, and i'm confident it will work
[10:38:51] <roycroft> i'm looking at fine tuning
[10:38:59] <cradek> brb
[10:39:01] <enleth> you might not really need it
[10:39:28] <enleth> unless the motor "sings" loudly when starting and stopping
[10:39:29] <roycroft> from what i can ascertain, if it is properly tuned i can have full torque throughout the speed range, up to base rpm
[10:39:46] <roycroft> and torque will drop off as i exceed base rpm, but that can be minimised
[10:40:24] <roycroft> and yes, ramp times i can sort out on my own
[10:41:19] <roycroft> the thing can be completely controlled remotely, which is good - i can turn it on/off, change speed, change direction remotely
[10:41:29] <roycroft> there are also terminals for a braking resistor, which i may want to add
[10:42:08] <roycroft> my plan was to mount the vfd down on the stand, away from all the dust and grit i'll generate, and make a control panel for it, so i'm glad that will work out
[10:42:43] <enleth> look for used braking resistors on ebay, see what resistance is recommended for your VFD, should be listed in the manual
[10:42:58] <enleth> those resistors are surprisingly epxensive
[10:43:02] <roycroft> yes, there's table in the manual
[10:43:10] <roycroft> and i see resistors ranging from $40 to $400
[10:43:20] <roycroft> it's not something i need initially
[10:43:27] <enleth> you might also consider an output filter
[10:43:35] <roycroft> and is easy to add later
[10:44:26] <roycroft> it may be cheaper to get two resistors and run them in parallel
[10:44:42] <roycroft> the low wattage ones are much less expensive than the high wattage ones
[10:44:45] <enleth> that works
[10:45:03] <enleth> and see if you can get one with a builtin thermostat to turn on a fan
[10:45:42] <roycroft> i'm going to build an enclosed stand for my grinder, to store wheels, tools, etc.
[10:45:56] <CaptHindsight> the more I look into the galvo scanned laser marking systems the more opportunity there is for someone to start making systems at a good profit
[10:46:00] <roycroft> and my plan is to build a ventilated compartment to hold the vfd and braking resistor(s)
[10:46:07] <roycroft> inside the stand
[10:46:20] <roycroft> i might just install a fan in that compartment and run it whenever the unit is powerd
[10:46:51] <enleth> roycroft: it's common to put a dedicated fan right on the resistors to help them dissipate sudden power spikes
[10:46:54] <roycroft> the vfd could benefit from some additional cooling, i'm sure
[10:47:01] <roycroft> ok
[10:47:30] <roycroft> similar to peecee cpu fans, eh?
[10:47:56] <enleth> yeah, that should work just fine
[10:48:06] <roycroft> bbiab
[10:48:12] <enleth> or a PC power supply style fan
[10:48:19] <roycroft> today my plan is to power the vfd and make the motor spin
[10:48:24] <roycroft> just to ensure that everything is working
[10:48:27] <enleth> those are available in 115/230V versions too
[10:48:37] <roycroft> sure
[10:48:41] <roycroft> i've used those heaps of times
[10:48:48] <archivist> make sure you have the motor wired for the right voltage
[10:49:00] <roycroft> yes, the wiring diagram is right on the motor plate
[10:49:36] * roycroft heads off to a fiber hut
[10:49:41] <enleth> yep, I almost cooked the ORAC motor a few days ago when I forgot that the original VFD was only 230V phase to phase
[10:50:01] <enleth> and I hooked up the Bridgeport's VFD which is 400V
[10:50:54] <enleth> good thing it made those weird noises, so I proceeded to stop it and investigate
[10:51:55] <enleth> it ran for less than 10 seconds and the insulation on the wires emerging from the motor shell was already a bit sticky
[10:58:48] <CaptHindsight> the laser marker guys that use galvos charge $10K-20K for their winders based controllers
[10:59:42] <CaptHindsight> they didn't like hearing about how <$1k of linuxcnc hardware can do much more
[11:05:40] <CaptHindsight> seems their winders controller is one of their biggest sales points
[11:06:25] <archivist> does it even work in win10
[11:06:58] <archivist> can you imaging being in the middle of a job and it does a forced reboot
[11:07:55] <CaptHindsight> the controllers have a bunch of canned graphics and text, looks like you just send them ascii
[11:08:25] <CaptHindsight> I don't think that they can take line art
[11:09:18] <archivist> just been researching a company which had origins in the UK Rofin, got gobbled up reversed into to become laser marking
[11:15:14] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/30W-CO2-LASER-MARKER-MARKING-PC-Tech-Support-1Yr-Warranty-Ship-Service-In-USA-/222073201138 imports from China so you'd have to fix all the corners they cut
[11:18:12] <FloppyDisk> CaptHindsight - Why couldn't I buy this instead? http://www.ebay.com/itm/111607131909
[11:18:42] <FloppyDisk> Much less expensive, more Watts on the CO2. Might need to 'open' the bed a little...
[11:19:01] <cradek> heh the brand name is CNCCheap
[11:19:18] <FloppyDisk> Not trying to fool anyone there:-)
[11:19:57] <cradek> CaptHindsight: wow, really, no enclosure at all?
[11:20:09] <CaptHindsight> FloppyDisk: that version does not use a galvo so the scan rate is much lower
[11:20:23] <FloppyDisk> Dumb question, what's a galvo?
[11:21:08] <CaptHindsight> http://www.sintecoptronics.com/markinghead.gif
[11:22:03] <FloppyDisk> Thanks - it's the way they write to the work piece, not belts and pulleys, but rotating mirrors.
[11:22:23] <FloppyDisk> I suppose you could LinuxCNC a galvo... not very hard.
[11:23:17] <CaptHindsight> http://nutfieldtech.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Nutfield-Tech-Universal-OEM-Laser-Kit.jpg here's the whole setup
[11:23:52] <CaptHindsight> laser tube, beam expander, collimator, galvo and f-theta lens for focus
[11:24:18] <CaptHindsight> yeah, linuxcnc controls galvos, they are just open loop servos
[11:24:37] <CaptHindsight> 0-10V to the galvo amp
[11:26:15] <CaptHindsight> http://www.sintecoptronics.cn/laserpartDPSS.gif diode laser version
[12:26:15] <lair82> pcw_home, you around?
[12:59:48] <pcw_home> for a bit
[13:01:13] <lair82> Do I need to delete the other kernels after I build the latest preempt kernel?
[13:01:33] <andypugh> I don’t thik
[13:01:41] <andypugh> nk so
[13:02:18] <pcw_home> They do no harm (other than waste space)
[13:02:49] <lair82> Ok, just wondered,
[13:03:42] <lair82> just working on getting this build going, as afar as I can, before I need to go back to the shop where the machine actually is, and swap the SSD's to this current version
[13:08:34] <lair82> Why do I get this error" tom@10vc:~/linuxcnc-dev$ linuxcnc
[13:08:34] <lair82> LinuxCNC requires the real-time kernel 3.4-9-rtai-686-pae to run.
[13:08:34] <lair82> Before running LinuxCNC, reboot and choose this kernel at the boot menu.
[13:08:34] <lair82> tom@10vc:~/linuxcnc-dev$
[13:08:34] <lair82> ?
[13:09:20] <cradek> if you don't have that kernel, you can't run that packaged version
[13:09:32] <pcw_home> that means you are attempting to run a RTAI version of linuxcnc
[13:09:56] <pcw_home> so you need to install the uspace version of linuxcnc
[13:11:20] <lair82> I just went through and ran all of this, "cd linuxcnc-dev~git pull~git checkout master~cd src~./autogen.sh~./configure --with-realtime=uspace~make~sudo make setuid"
[13:12:26] <lair82> And I built the new kernel yesterday, and it shows this "tom@10vc:~/linuxcnc-dev$ uname -a
[13:12:26] <lair82> Linux 10vc 4.1.20-rt23 #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Mon Jun 20 13:12:09 EDT 2016 i686 GNU/Linux
[13:12:26] <lair82> tom@10vc:~/linuxcnc-dev$
[13:12:26] <lair82> "
[13:13:05] <cradek> if you want master uspace packages for wheezy, I suggest you use the ones from buildbot
[13:13:33] <cradek> (but for running machinery of course I suggest 2.7 and not master)
[13:15:07] <lair82> I am going to change it to 2.7, copy and pasted commands faster than what I should have, I do have all my other machines running 2.7, but what am I missing in regards to installing uspace?
[13:15:15] <pcw_home> looks like you made a RIP build
[13:15:44] <cradek> don't use RIP for a non-development machine
[13:15:59] <cradek> use released packages so they upgrade when we put out stable bugfix releases
[13:16:43] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html#_installing_on_debian_wheezy_with_preempt_rt_kernel
[13:17:14] <lair82> I screwed up and deleted linuxcnc from the package manager, and was trying to build it by hand, like I used to, now all my machines are running 2.7 something, and are updated when updates are released
[13:17:44] <cradek> that's ok, just follow those instructions to install the 2.7 linuxcnc-uspace packages
[13:17:51] <pcw_home> but you DO NOT want to install the kernel from there
[13:17:56] <cradek> (skip the kernel install instructions of course, if you've built your own)
[13:18:14] <lair82> So I could not just click the cnc directory in the app menu, and select "Linuxcnc"
[13:20:45] <lair82> Ok, after looking at the install instructions it's all coming back to me now, sorry for the confusion, it's been almost a year since I had to build one, and when I built the last one using preempt, I was in a hurry because of all the problems I was having, and my notes are shit.
[14:03:50] <roycroft> hello again, folks
[14:04:25] <roycroft> this vfd i have is set to 50Hz at the factory for both line and base frequency
[14:04:51] <roycroft> i shall have to change that, as i live in a 60Hz country, and my motor base frequency is 60Hz to get 3450rpm
[14:05:06] <roycroft> that said, if i change those frequencies i'll manually have to set the voltage/Hz parameter
[14:05:16] <roycroft> and the manual suggests setting it to 1V/Hz
[14:05:46] <roycroft> that seems to mean i would be feeding my motor 60V@60Hz, and that doesn't sound right
[14:06:13] <roycroft> am i fundamentally misunderstanding this?
[14:07:34] <archivist> yes, the 1v/whatever is the 0-10v in I think not the output
[14:08:06] <roycroft> that's for the analog input?
[14:08:16] <roycroft> i shall have to read the manual again
[14:08:26] <roycroft> there's a different setting for the voltage range of the analog input
[14:08:31] <roycroft> i can set that to 5v, 10v, or 24v
[14:08:47] <roycroft> i was pretty sure the manual was discussing output voltage
[14:08:57] <roycroft> but i very well could be wrong
[14:11:16] <archivist> the total analogue input v the scale of analogue in
[14:13:17] <gregcnc> v/hz is a characteristic related to the motor and voltage supplied to it at speeds below base frequency
[14:14:31] <roycroft> oh,
[14:14:34] <roycroft> i DID misread it
[14:14:43] <roycroft> that V/Hz setting is analog voltage out
[14:14:48] <roycroft> i.e. to feed an external meter
[14:14:57] <roycroft> interesting
[14:15:04] <roycroft> that can actually be very useful
[14:15:30] <roycroft> i was considering installing a hall effect tachometer on my drive wheel to monitor speed
[14:15:43] <roycroft> but i can take the analog out and use that directly, assuming no slippage
[14:16:02] <roycroft> and since it's a direct drive setup slippage would be most unusual and very bad
[14:16:39] <gregcnc> ok that is a scaling factor. some VFD can display RPM on it's own display
[14:16:50] <archivist> induction motors need slip to function :)
[14:17:12] <roycroft> i can even convert rpm to sfm and display that directly
[14:17:18] <roycroft> and sfm is the number that's more useful to me
[14:18:10] <roycroft> slippage of the drive wheel is what i'm talking about though
[14:20:03] <roycroft> with a 4" drive wheel 1 rpm is pretty close to 1 sfm
[14:20:16] <roycroft> but not exactly
[15:46:03] <yasnak> welll
[15:46:16] <yasnak> rush job, get it nearly done...they change design
[15:46:58] <gregcnc> so you have a fudge factor for slip, it's just close anyway
[15:47:01] <yasnak> rush job from scratch, totally new design which includes two versions with two versions of driver for a surgical screw. due by Thursday. I love when they do this @ 4:00
[15:47:03] <gregcnc> oops
[15:47:40] <Tom_itx> charge them accordingly
[16:27:48] <icecube45> asshole tax
[16:29:00] <miss0r> 4000rpm on a 10mm carbide endmill in castiron.. I'm wearing hear protection here... that is very noisy
[16:30:52] <miss0r> I found this beautiful chunk of cast iron. it's a plate that is 300x300mm and 80mm thick, with two "reinforcement" beams undearneath it, bringing it to a total of 120mm thick. I am machining it flat to use as a small surface plate.
[16:31:37] <miss0r> but it takes forever, as some idiot forgot to make the fast movement a fast movement, and not just feed speed.
[16:40:48] <SpeedEvil> miss0r: nice
[16:42:31] <andypugh> miss0r: You need three of them and some blue to make a perfect flat.
[16:46:59] <Deejay> gn8
[16:48:17] * JT-Shop goes to see if he can worm the suitcase welder into the shop through the maze in the garage
[16:51:07] <roycroft> i have a body ram that you can borrow if you need to make your aisles wider
[16:52:26] <JT-Shop> working on that
[16:52:50] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/images/equipment-shed/big-dig-08.jpg
[16:53:18] <Tom_itx> done scraping dirt yet?
[16:53:23] <JT-Shop> worked like one of those puzzles with a square missing
[16:53:26] <JT-Shop> 8" left
[16:53:30] <Tom_itx> doesn't look like anything has moved in that pic
[16:53:43] <JT-Shop> let me get one from today
[16:53:58] <Tom_itx> did you make a drainage ditch around the flat?
[16:56:15] <miss0r> andypugh: Yeah. after i'm done machining it, I will put it in my surface grinder. then I will take it to my neighboor to have it 'lapped'
[16:56:31] <miss0r> and that will take it to the tolerences I need
[16:56:34] <JT-Shop> not done digging yet, 8" to go
[16:57:16] <JT-Shop> made a ditch at the top of the hill a couple feet behind the start of the dig running off to the north
[16:57:32] <miss0r> JT-Shop: What are you building/digging out for?
[16:57:46] <JT-Shop> 30x50x12 building
[16:57:54] <Tom_itx> i assume by the shadows that N is at the bottom of the pic
[16:57:59] <miss0r> in feet/meters? :)
[16:58:21] <JT-Shop> on 08 I'm looking north at the crawler
[16:58:25] <Tom_itx> unless that's an AM pic
[16:58:53] <Tom_itx> that's what i would have done
[17:00:51] <JT-Shop> looking south http://gnipsel.com/images/equipment-shed/big-dig-09.jpg
[17:00:53] <Tom_itx> wait.. that is an AM pic :)
[17:01:28] <JT-Shop> aye 9am
[17:01:43] <Tom_itx> where you puttin all the extra dirt? over the hill?
[17:02:07] <JT-Shop> started out with about 8' around the shop I now have 28' :)
[17:03:02] <JT-Shop> looking at 08 from where I'm standing to the stump with the orange can is all back fill to the right
[17:03:57] <Tom_itx> so the 2 tractors are sitting on backfill
[17:04:36] <JT-Shop> yea
[17:04:54] <andypugh> Just how many sheds does one man need?
[17:04:54] <Tom_itx> hope that doesn't slide down the hill later
[17:05:01] <Tom_itx> andypugh, just one more
[17:05:16] <roycroft> two sheds
[17:05:31] <Tom_itx> you build one then you need one more
[17:05:56] <roycroft> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLjS3gzHetA
[17:06:04] <JT-Shop> yea two sheds is enough to fit all I have inside and a place to restore the tractor and other equipment
[17:06:59] <JT-Shop> the shop was my last build, this one is being built by the Mennonites
[17:08:25] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/images/equipment-shed/big-dig-10.jpg
[17:08:34] <JT-Shop> backfill on the north side of the shop
[17:10:08] <JT-Shop> NE corner of the shop the fill is 25' deep
[17:11:04] <Tom_itx> well crap.. gotta reset the router
[17:23:05] <roycroft> the israelites fought the philistines
[17:23:20] <roycroft> mennonites are a peaceful lot, of the same general ilk as the amish
[17:23:28] <roycroft> their women wear nice white bonnets
[17:25:13] <CaptHindsight> then how come Google has a Mennonites vs Amish search?
[17:25:30] <CaptHindsight> do they battle/skirmish often?
[17:25:30] <Lowridah_> fucking dirty mennonites
[17:25:37] <Lowridah_> always washing their clothes in the river
[17:26:20] <roycroft> they are both anabaptists
[17:26:29] <roycroft> neither of them fight
[17:26:46] <CaptHindsight> I went to HS with Anna Baptist
[17:27:00] <roycroft> did she fight you?
[17:27:15] <CaptHindsight> no she had a passive fist
[17:27:20] <roycroft> there you go then
[17:27:32] <_methods> are those baptists that don't use oxygen
[17:27:45] <_methods> anabaptaerobic
[17:28:11] <roycroft> they use oxygen as long as it's generated off the grid
[17:28:17] <_methods> hehe
[17:28:18] <CaptHindsight> anabapterial soap
[17:28:57] <CaptHindsight> kills bacteria and baptists on contact
[17:29:22] <roycroft> the shakers are the best religion
[17:29:33] <CaptHindsight> not the movers?
[17:29:35] <roycroft> all religious people should convert to shakerism
[17:29:45] <roycroft> because shakers believe in total isolation of the sexes
[17:29:50] <roycroft> which means no procreation
[17:30:23] <CaptHindsight> so anticreators
[17:30:30] <roycroft> so once they've converted everybody that they will ever be able to convert, it's just a matter of waiting a hundred years and then they'll all be gone
[17:30:41] <Lowridah_> shakers ain't got shit on jainists
[17:30:56] <CaptHindsight> self unperpetuating movement
[17:32:28] <Tom_itx> wow. do a router reset talking about leveling dirt and come back to israelites, philistines, mennonites, amish, baptist....
[17:32:38] <CaptHindsight> when this first aired it was only seen as comedy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lDb0Dn8OXE
[17:32:52] <CaptHindsight> now it's sounds like what the NRA actually wants
[17:33:06] <CaptHindsight> 40 years of idiocracy
[17:35:45] <roycroft> i just started watching all in the family recently, after 40 years
[17:35:52] <_methods> hahah
[17:35:55] <roycroft> it was a groundbreaking show when it first came out
[17:35:55] <_methods> meathead!!!
[17:36:18] <roycroft> i remember we were riveted to the tv every week when it came on
[17:36:34] <roycroft> it seems rather dated now though
[17:36:58] <roycroft> edith, stifle yourself!
[17:37:21] <_methods> yeah i imagine some of these feminist types would burst into flames if they saw an episode
[17:38:09] <roycroft> i picked up a spool of 12/3 soow today
[17:38:20] <roycroft> i got tired of buying short pieces every time i needed to make a power cord
[17:38:37] <roycroft> it costs about 1/2 as much when buying by the spool
[17:38:54] <CaptHindsight> Archie Bunker types are still all around us, they just don't have their own TV shows, except for Trump
[17:39:01] <JT-Shop> I just buy extension cords and cut off the end
[17:39:13] <roycroft> $89 for 100' vs. $1.40/foot
[17:39:19] <roycroft> extension cords aren't usually rated oo
[17:39:37] <CaptHindsight> I cut cords myself
[17:39:50] <roycroft> trump doesn't have his own tv show any more
[17:39:51] <CaptHindsight> wait for the sales at Menards and Home Depot
[17:39:55] <roycroft> he's moved up - he has every network now
[17:40:30] <roycroft> but yeah
[17:40:39] <roycroft> he's very archie bunkerlike
[17:40:52] <roycroft> obama was behind the orlando killings
[17:40:59] <roycroft> we need to start racially profiling
[17:41:13] <roycroft> that's just what he's said in the last week
[17:41:31] <roycroft> trump is even from queens
[17:41:48] <roycroft> as was the orlando shooter
[17:42:22] <roycroft> we need to profile people from queens!
[17:42:27] <CaptHindsight> we keep boiling the frog to slowly
[17:42:57] <CaptHindsight> I'd prefer an actual Hitler to be president so we can't get right to the revolution
[17:43:38] <CaptHindsight> but it won't happen in my lifetime
[17:43:41] <roycroft> at this point i really have no concept of who the republican candidate is going to be
[17:43:50] <roycroft> mittens or trump
[17:44:19] <roycroft> or maybe sernie banders will run as a republican
[17:44:28] <roycroft> and save the party
[17:44:48] <roycroft> but we have time to sort that out
[17:45:00] <roycroft> there's a brexit coming up in just over a day
[17:45:06] <roycroft> that's kind of a big deal right now
[17:45:21] <roycroft> a "leave" vote might tank the global economy for a while
[17:46:11] <CaptHindsight> "Fiat Chrysler in April recalled more than 1.1 million cars and SUVs worldwide because vehicles may roll away after drivers exit,"
[17:47:08] <CaptHindsight> now we are getting more of the story about Anton Yelchin's death
[17:48:16] <SpeedEvil> It was a PR stunt to publicise the recall.
[17:49:03] <_methods> scotty caught chekov bangin his wife and beamed him between the car and the gate
[17:49:30] <_methods> never mess with the guy running the teleporter
[17:49:46] <CaptHindsight> damn right
[17:50:44] <CaptHindsight> heh, could you imagine the dumb things people could do with actual transporters
[17:50:54] <_methods> apparently their gear shifter design is so stupid they had to make a video to show people how to use it
[17:51:00] <CaptHindsight> why we can't have them
[17:51:30] <CaptHindsight> I heard it works like a joystick vs detents and gates like they used to have
[17:52:24] <CaptHindsight> hey I've got a great idea <insert stupid idea from young engineer>
[17:53:54] <CaptHindsight> then again Jeeps have been crap since the 80's
[17:54:33] <SpeedEvil> Is there any reason at all to have the car not engage the brake if engine is off, door is opened, and vehicle is stationary?
[17:54:56] <CaptHindsight> suicide?
[17:54:56] <zeeshan> they engage when driving?
[17:55:25] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: no - the brake is easy to not apply in the above circumstance
[17:55:32] <CaptHindsight> do you keep the engine running or shut it off before shoving your car off a cliff?
[17:55:40] <zeeshan> you have a vacuum leak
[17:55:47] <zeeshan> or brake booster diaphragm is ripped
[17:55:50] <zeeshan> do a leak test
[17:56:39] <CaptHindsight> it would cost too much, a safety feature like that has to be 20 cents or less
[17:57:51] <CaptHindsight> driverless cars at this point can only improve things on the road
[17:58:53] <SpeedEvil> Driverless cars would be awesome.
[17:59:05] <CaptHindsight> we need to find some way to replace guberment officials with AI as well
[18:00:33] <CaptHindsight> or any form of intelligence
[18:00:38] <_methods> lol
[18:00:55] <Sync> SpeedEvil: pushing it
[18:01:03] <Sync> also how do you maintain brake pressure?
[18:01:11] <SpeedEvil> Sync: I was meaning the parking brake
[18:01:38] <CaptHindsight> truck use air brakes that are automatically applied under no pressure
[18:01:51] <CaptHindsight> no vacuum required
[18:02:41] <CaptHindsight> have a leak and you're stopped until you fix it
[18:03:11] <Sync> well, how do you engage the parking brake? electric parking brakes are not seriously common still
[18:04:47] <CaptHindsight> if they are hydraulic then it would also keep leaking systems off the road
[18:19:55] <JT-Shop> yea the wife is home
[19:21:47] <Tom_itx> SpeedEvil there are already plenty of driverless cars out there
[19:22:04] <Tom_itx> may as well have a crash dummy behind the wheel
[20:44:15] <jdh> there are plenty of dummies behind the wheel of drivered cars
[20:46:00] <tiwake> more people on the darwin's awards never hurts either
[21:00:51] <hatch789> hey guys is there a way to adjust a small signal (tiny voltage) out of the signal with the .ini file perhaps? like mine is showing .01v and making my axis move a tiny bit when I have the power off to linuxCNC
[21:01:19] <hatch789> there is a DEADBAND setting in the .ini file is this what I can change to try to get 0.00v on the multimeter?
[21:08:37] <roycroft> well my vfd and motor combo works brilliantly, except it takes about 30 seconds to ramp up to speed
[21:08:48] <roycroft> i'll have to see if i can tweak that
[21:09:02] <roycroft> i can stall the motor by hand at about 8Hz
[21:09:18] <roycroft> and i don't anticipate i'll ever need to run it that slow, so that's great
[21:10:00] <roycroft> i estimate that to be ~460rpm
[21:10:22] <roycroft> assuming the speed/frequency curve is linear
[21:13:18] <gregcnc> hatch789 servos should not have power when linucnc is not running/machine is off/estop is in
[21:13:44] <gregcnc> there is a bias setting, but your amp should also have bias
[21:16:05] <skunkworks> Estop out - power supply to drive gets activated.. Linuxcnc on - drives get enabled.
[21:19:23] <hatch789> I have not performed setup to that degree yet
[21:20:07] <hatch789> so when I press power to my servos on my MILL and then don't have power on in linuxcnc. THere is a small voltage on the signal wire that makes the axis move just ever so slightly
[21:20:28] <hatch789> I know I can take this out at the amp but I was wondering if there is a way to take it out in linuxcnc also
[21:22:40] <skunkworks> if that is happening then the hardware setup/config isn't correct.
[23:12:15] <tiwake> what is this