#linuxcnc | Logs for 2016-06-20

[00:00:13] <enleth> chopper79: does it have a backgear like a bridgeport?
[00:00:33] <CaptHindsight> for some reason we have both posted you issue, with pics and also your ini and HAL file yet the same questions are being asked of what your problem is
[00:00:47] <chopper79> Yes but 1000lbs heavier and a way more rigid.
[00:01:13] <chopper79> No back gear.. removed and using 1:1 belt setup.
[00:02:15] <chopper79> If I remove the VFd and just hood the motor up to 220 3ph i get ~ 1750 rpm with this setup. The 1:1 is good
[00:02:24] <chopper79> *hook
[00:03:36] <chopper79> CaptHindsight... I am not perfect at explaining things through text. This may be due to my poor methods of explaination
[00:03:50] <enleth> chopper79: ok, so one of the better ways of adding an encoder on a bridgeport-like head is to use automotive Hall effect sensors. this is a DIY method but works nicely. however, the sensors need a gear of some sort to be able to detect the teeth: https://pico-systems.com/bridge_spindle.html
[00:05:17] <chopper79> I will look into this and see what I can come up with.
[00:05:33] <enleth> if this were a bridgeport, even with most of the backgear stuff removed, the gear that engages multisplined part of the spindle, with the dog clutch on top, would still be there, it's impossible to remove it without replacing it with a multisplined sleeve
[00:05:46] <enleth> is that the case on your machine as well?
[00:06:20] <CaptHindsight> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/examples/spindle.html
[00:06:36] <chopper79> Mine is all removed and all that remained was the splined sleev and my pulley setup.
[00:06:41] <CaptHindsight> chopper79: nah I filled in your blanks
[00:07:05] <enleth> as far as accuary goes, this method is really nice, those sensors are the type used in automatic transmissions and the gear size and RPMs match nicely
[00:07:40] <enleth> chopper79: otherwise you could attach something on the fan end of the motor
[00:08:15] <chopper79> I am looking at the motor and seeing if I have room on the tail shaft of motor to mount one.
[00:08:33] <CaptHindsight> chopper79: did you see http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/examples_spindle.html
[00:08:43] <chopper79> Capt... I have seen this doc and have attempted the examples with no better results.
[00:09:17] <enleth> chopper79: as for line count - if you only want RPM readout, this could be anything really, even the crappiest of all encoders will give you a usable readout
[00:09:25] <chopper79> i use the pwm setup on this doc for my vfd and 2.2kw spindle on my router. RPM seems to match rpm on spindle fairly close.
[00:09:26] <enleth> chopper79: you need better if you'd like rigid tapping and such
[00:09:30] <CaptHindsight> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Analog_Spindle_Speed_Control
[00:10:17] <chopper79> I will look at this one more capt. Thanks
[00:10:46] <chopper79> I am still thinkng of just getting a used fanuc motor with encoder and end this all..lol
[00:11:00] <chopper79> Use this as it is for a little bit and then upgrade
[00:11:05] <enleth> if you have the money, sure
[00:11:06] <CaptHindsight> it should not have to come to that
[00:11:52] <CaptHindsight> you just mist be missing some but of how HAL inputs the 0-10V and throws numbers at the RPM indicator in AXIS
[00:12:03] <CaptHindsight> too many typos
[00:12:11] <chopper79> Really all I need to do is cut some aluminum. That is why I said 100rpm variance is fine.
[00:12:39] <CaptHindsight> lots here use open loop to control their spindles
[00:12:51] <CaptHindsight> most of the router folks
[00:12:53] <chopper79> I agree capt... Just cant find the part I am missing yet.
[00:13:08] <CaptHindsight> I doubt they add encoders to their cheap Chinaco spindles
[00:13:18] <CaptHindsight> I'm off
[00:13:23] <CaptHindsight> hasta again
[00:13:24] <chopper79> Like I said I can put 12600 in the scale and I get ~100 rpm difference.
[00:13:30] <chopper79> Later and thank you
[00:13:39] <CaptHindsight> so whats wrong with that?
[00:14:00] <CaptHindsight> maybe missing a "gain" setting?
[00:14:31] <chopper79> I was thinking the same thing. The spindle section in hal has PID links to the ini
[00:15:29] <chopper79> So I was thinking some where in the setup it is missing something or is looking for some feedback and its no there. I may just rob my router code and put it in there and run with it for a bit.
[00:16:22] <CaptHindsight> dskng3,%4 <face hits keyboard>
[00:16:54] <chopper79> Why did your face hit keyboard?
[00:17:49] <CaptHindsight> common event due to lack of rest
[00:18:19] <chopper79> I agree... I need to be up in about 4.5hrs
[00:19:07] <chopper79> Go stick myself in full weld gear in a 110deg shop for 8hrs...yeah
[00:26:50] <chopper79> Thank for your time everyone... If I figure out what is happening I will let you know.
[00:27:58] <pcw_home> scale _must_ be 1750 if your VFD is 1750 at 10V
[00:29:01] <pcw_home> if the pyvcp readout is wrong you dont fix it by setting the analog scale wrong
[00:30:08] <XXCoder> heys
[00:30:36] <pcw_home> can you post your complete hal and ini files (there is probably a postgui hal file also)
[00:31:29] <chopper79> http://pastebin.com/C7Rjx5gp
[00:31:34] <chopper79> http://pastebin.com/raw/ZwrV1GPF
[00:31:49] <chopper79> Nothing in postgui
[00:33:26] <pcw_home> there are no hal statements for the spindle speed display so you are missing a hal file
[00:35:33] <pcw_home> this would normally be in the postgui.hal file
[00:41:22] <chopper79> The xml is linking it to the spindle-speed pin in hal.
[00:41:44] <chopper79> there is nothing in the custom postgui or th postgui_call
[00:46:16] <pcw_home> the stuff that links to the pyvcp display is missing so must be in some hal file
[00:47:21] <chopper79> Just seen a pyvcp_options.hal
[00:47:24] <chopper79> I will link
[00:47:57] <chopper79> http://pastebin.com/raw/VhtJibWN
[00:48:16] <chopper79> Just take xml pin name and links it to the hal pin name.
[00:48:29] <chopper79> vise versa
[00:48:47] <pcw_home> xml?
[00:49:22] <chopper79> http://pastebin.com/raw/fjVStUe2
[00:50:06] <chopper79> pyvcp-panel.xml
[00:50:47] <chopper79> ignore the speed setting in the xml I was trying something else with the rpm readout.
[00:51:34] <archivist> you add stuff to the custom postgui http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui/pyvcp-examples.html
[00:51:39] <chopper79> I know it does no tmatch the setting in the .ini but that should not matter any.
[00:52:09] <chopper79> This was created by PnCconf..
[00:54:56] <pcw_home> does spindle-vel-cmd-rpm-abs match the pyvcp display?
[00:55:47] <chopper79> I fI command the spindle to 1750rpm the display reads 1750
[00:56:36] <pcw_home> ok so its not a display problem
[00:57:48] <chopper79> I agree... I have 15000 in my .ini for the output_scale and the output_max_limit now and I get close to my requested rpm.
[00:58:17] <chopper79> far cry from just entering 1750 in there.
[00:58:24] <pcw_home> if you command 1750 RPM (and you have OUTPUT_SCALE and OUTPUT_MAX_LIMIT also set to 1750)
[00:58:48] <pcw_home> you should get 10V at the 7I77 analog 5 output
[00:58:53] <chopper79> yes and I get about 2100rpm
[00:58:59] <chopper79> 8.27v
[00:59:37] <pcw_home> Then the 7I77 is broken
[00:59:57] <enleth> chopper79: 8.27v on 7i77 output or on VFD output?
[01:00:05] <pcw_home> or you are not reading the output correctly
[01:00:49] <chopper79> dc volts coming out of 7i77 is 8.27v with a commanded rpm of 1750
[01:02:30] <chopper79> let me check freq to rpm...
[01:02:42] <pcw_home> then you have a broken /damaged 7I77 or you have a partial short somewhere
[01:02:44] <pcw_home> (Or your spindel scale and maxoutput values are not 1750)
[01:03:30] <pcw_home> (if you dont get 10 V +-1% at full scale something is wrong hardware wise)
[01:03:53] <chopper79> ok...running the math I get 1750rpm at 50hz
[01:04:01] <chopper79> Let me see how this works out.
[01:04:04] <chopper79> one second
[01:04:44] <enleth> pcw_home: wouldn't a VFD input configured for a current loop instead of voltage signal result something like this depending on the current sensing resistor in the VFD?
[01:06:32] <pcw_home> Yeah an output overload would certainly do it
[01:07:30] <enleth> and the VFD would take the current, probably much higher than 20mA at this point, as "full steam ahead" at the same time
[01:07:58] <enleth> (it should error out tbh, but many probably don't)
[01:10:05] <enleth> chopper79: you sure the VFD input is set in voltage mode? That's usually a jumper somewhere.
[01:10:37] <chopper79> jumper is set in VI position
[01:10:50] <chopper79> voltage input mode
[01:11:18] <enleth> do you get the 8.27V with nothing connected to the 7i77 output as well?
[01:14:24] <chopper79> let me check
[01:15:48] <chopper79> Yes I get 8.27v with nothing attached to the analog5 output
[01:16:08] <chopper79> when commanded 1750rpm
[01:16:38] <XXCoder> yeah please do not smok alcohol. http://cdn.diply.com/article-images/a/249184e1-04b2-45f1-a123-b17e36aca1d8_tablet.jpg
[01:18:22] <pcw_home> are the other analog outputs connected?
[01:22:18] <chopper79> Yes
[01:22:29] <chopper79> 0,1,2
[01:22:51] <pcw_home> so there are at least a couple things wrong
[01:22:53] <pcw_home> one is that the analog scale is wrong (you got 2100 RPM at 8.27 V so that means the scale should be ~2540 )
[01:22:54] <pcw_home> the other is why you dont get 10V if the scale and maxlimit are correct
[01:23:51] <chopper79> let me try 2540
[01:24:55] <pcw_home> things I would check
[01:24:57] <pcw_home> 1. try with 0,1,2 disconnected in case you have a wiring error (like gnd/out swapped) shorting an analog output
[01:24:58] <pcw_home> 2. check 5V at the 7I77
[01:25:29] <chopper79> Got 5.03v at 7i77
[01:25:41] <chopper79> I will try disconnecting 0,1,2
[01:28:11] <chopper79> ok...no change with 0,1,2 disconnected. also the scale of 2540 did not change anything much. Just a few rpm is all
[01:31:14] <chopper79> ok vfd reaches max hz at 1.5v now. (60hz setting) 2100rpm on VFD, 400rpm on Axis display, and 2360rpm on spindle
[01:31:46] <enleth> that sounds like a misconfigured VFD
[01:31:49] <pcw_home> so sounds like a bad/damaged 7I77 if you do have
[01:31:50] <pcw_home> hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout5-scalemax = 1750
[01:31:52] <pcw_home> hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout5-maxlim = 1750
[01:31:53] <pcw_home> hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout5 = 1750
[01:31:55] <pcw_home> and 8.27V out
[01:32:29] <enleth> that too, but maxing out at 1.5V doesn't sound like the intended behavior
[01:32:41] <chopper79> min limit is set to 0.0
[01:33:02] <enleth> uh, is the VFD's max output frequency 400Hz?
[01:33:11] <chopper79> set to max of 60hz
[01:33:17] <enleth> 1.5V/10V = 60Hz/400Hz
[01:33:32] <enleth> I mean, the ratios match
[01:33:45] <enleth> you set the max output frequency
[01:34:00] <chopper79> I agree... went through every single setting in vfd
[01:34:05] <enleth> but input mapping might still be relative to the *possible* maximum in this VFD
[01:34:11] <chopper79> yes max output in vfd is 60hz
[01:34:41] <enleth> and many VFDs are capable of up to 400Hz, that's why I checked this number
[01:35:18] <enleth> in VFDs I've used, input voltage mapping and output frequency cap are completely different settings
[01:36:08] <enleth> it would be possible and quite easy to get the result you're seeing on the VFD in my mill by setting the upper output limit to 60Hz but upper input reference - frequency at 10V - to the maximum, 400Hz
[01:36:38] <enleth> it will just reach the output limit at 1.5V and stay there all the way up to 10V
[01:37:40] <enleth> so definitely take a look at input scaling
[01:37:50] <chopper79> Will do...thanks.
[01:38:16] <chopper79> Thank yuo everyone and I have to run. Work calls in 3.25hrs.
[01:38:21] <enleth> still, you shouldn't be getting those 8.27V as pcw_home said, that's two separate issues
[01:39:37] <chopper79> I will look at it some more tomorrow and see what happens. If its a bad 7i77 then I will get it replaced/repaired. If it is configuration of vfd then I will sort that out.
[01:39:53] <chopper79> I will go over the manual again and see if I missed something.
[01:41:17] <chopper79> I think the 8.27 is due to me commanding the 1750rpm after it reaches its full freq cap of 60hz at 1.5v
[01:41:38] <chopper79> The freq does not change but the voltage will keep increasing like you said
[01:42:07] <chopper79> That would explain why I get 8.27v at commanded rpm and reach top freq at 1.5v
[01:42:48] <chopper79> I will check to see if voltage keeps climbing up to 10v when I keep increasing rpm while cap is 60hz.
[01:43:07] <chopper79> Thanks again
[01:45:23] <archivist> enleth, I blame you... I found all the bits to put my spectralyser(monochromator) back together
[01:45:51] <XXCoder> and that's bad?
[01:45:58] <archivist> no
[01:46:40] <XXCoder> lol ok
[02:08:05] <enleth> archivist: that's just a few steps shy of a proper spectrometer
[02:09:36] <archivist> this one has a motor with encoder and an external box for chart recorder drive and marker pulses
[02:10:29] <archivist> does partly work, the encoder disk/pickup is not producing the trigger pulse for the scope
[02:11:42] <archivist> I need a circa 1982 service manual
[02:21:13] <XXCoder> manuals can be nightmare to find
[02:22:28] <archivist> there are a few archives out there
[02:22:51] <XXCoder> I guess it takes an archivist to know where. ;)
[02:25:26] <XXCoder> I just wish chinese was better on docs
[02:25:29] <XXCoder> some is just bad
[02:28:08] <archivist> I find the instruction manual on the web (my site) but not the service
[02:30:24] <archivist> I dont know if there were one or two companies called Rofin either
[02:30:27] <enleth> archivist: did you ever forget you had something and start googling only to realize your site is the first result?
[02:30:47] <archivist> enleth, more than once :)
[02:30:59] <XXCoder> lol
[02:32:10] <archivist> funniest was after I used some old images to workout some dimensions, had it indexed in an old book
[02:33:18] <XXCoder> man mrpete222 sure shows weird tools
[02:40:28] <Deejay> moin
[02:48:57] <XXCoder> hey the Loetmichel
[04:09:34] <XXCoder> archivist: have you ever seen this? http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/5/2/0/551520_v1.jpg
[04:11:47] <archivist> silly
[04:12:07] <XXCoder> yeah. its improved in such way that hands cannot be let off. either hand
[04:12:29] <XXCoder> and one armed (and other various disbailities) cannot use it now
[04:23:26] <XXCoder> archivist: whats sad is that inventor is an engineer
[04:23:46] <archivist> should be culled
[04:24:06] <XXCoder> if guy designed a screwdriver it probably had to be held with both hands and rotated by foot pedal
[04:27:04] <XXCoder> heh this week as I am drinking soylent bottles I will be also cleaning em, then cutting em up for more hdpe
[04:27:15] <XXCoder> hype of hdpe lol
[04:27:44] <XXCoder> anyway hopefully I will have good amount by couple weeks so I can attempt to build a mold and make hdpe bricks
[04:27:52] <XXCoder> then i can shit bricks, i did it! :P
[05:09:24] <Sync> heh it's a neat idea XXCoder
[05:09:31] <Sync> kinda like the original snakebike
[05:09:34] <XXCoder> lol
[05:28:07] <jthornton> morning
[06:34:37] <jthornton> time to dig
[06:57:42] <Tom_itx> can you dig it?!?
[07:08:00] <pink_vampire> hi
[08:04:12] <JT-Shop> iDig
[08:07:17] <Polymorphism> fucking hardware still waiting
[08:07:29] <Polymorphism> cnc remains partially assembled
[08:09:28] <_methods> apples lawyers will be by in a few hours
[08:17:52] <lair82> Good Morning Gentleman, trying to make the most current preempt-rt kernel, and I keep getting this "tom@10vc:~/rtlinux$ wget https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/projects/rt/4.4/patch-4.6.2-rt5.patch.gz
[08:17:53] <lair82> --2016-06-20 08:49:31-- https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/projects/rt/4.4/patch-4.6.2-rt5.patch.gz
[08:17:53] <lair82> Resolving www.kernel.org (www.kernel.org)...,,, ...
[08:17:53] <lair82> Connecting to www.kernel.org (www.kernel.org)||:443... connected.
[08:17:53] <lair82> HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 404 Not Found
[08:17:54] <lair82> 2016-06-20 08:49:32 ERROR 404: Not Found.
[08:17:56] <lair82> " any thought?
[08:28:02] <JT-Shop> looks like iChangeFuelFilter then iDig iHope
[08:28:28] <Polymorphism> dude
[08:28:33] <Polymorphism> the error is clearly stated
[08:30:20] <_methods> bad url
[08:32:09] <_methods> https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/projects/rt/4.4/older/
[08:32:20] <_methods> i don't even see that particular patch in the older section
[08:32:46] <_methods> this looks like the current url
[08:32:49] <pcw_home> yeah thats in rt/4.6 not rt/4.4
[08:32:49] <_methods> https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/projects/rt/4.4/patch-4.4.12-rt19.patch.gz
[08:33:48] <pcw_home> unless you need it I also would not use 4.6 or even 4.4
[08:38:43] <lair82> I tried building 4.1.13 from the start and received the same fault, " tom@10vc:~/rtlinux$ wget https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/projects/rt/4.1/patch-4.1.13-rt15.patch.gz
[08:38:43] <lair82> --2016-06-20 09:10:53-- https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/projects/rt/4.1/patch-4.1.13-rt15.patch.gz
[08:38:43] <lair82> Resolving www.kernel.org (www.kernel.org)...,,, ...
[08:38:43] <lair82> Connecting to www.kernel.org (www.kernel.org)||:443... connected.
[08:38:46] <lair82> HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 404 Not Found
[08:38:48] <lair82> 2016-06-20 09:10:54 ERROR 404: Not Found.
[08:38:50] <lair82> tom@10vc:~/rtlinux$
[08:40:08] <lair82> And that address " https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/projects/rt/4.1/ " goes right to the directory containing the files I need.
[08:40:48] <archivist> no the name is different
[08:41:04] <lair82> which name?
[08:41:25] <archivist> you asked for a *15* and they have *23*
[08:41:30] <Polymorphism> 2016-06-20 09:10:54 ERROR 404: Not Found.'
[08:41:35] <lair82> oh, shit,
[08:42:06] <archivist> eyes....use them :)
[08:42:26] <Polymorphism> it looks like confusing wall of errors
[08:42:57] <Polymorphism> but its not
[08:43:02] <Polymorphism> read it =D
[08:43:15] <lair82> Yep, now I see it, what was confusing me was, when I ran the first command o get all this going, it works, "ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v4.x/linux-4.1.13.tar.xz",
[08:43:37] <Polymorphism> best to understand them
[08:43:49] <Polymorphism> wget is a tool for downloading files via command line
[08:43:52] <pcw_home> look at www.kernel.org with your browser and select the patch from whats available
[08:43:53] <pcw_home> Also do no use 4.4 or 4.6 unless you like kernel crashes or terrible latency
[08:43:57] <Polymorphism> error 404 means the file was not found
[08:44:12] <lair82> So I was confused when the second command didn't work I just sat here and scratched my head
[08:47:29] <pcw_home> the other confusing thing is that as soon as a new patch comes out, they move the previous
[08:47:30] <pcw_home> one to a "older" directory so a script that used to work to fetch the patch will fail
[08:48:43] <_methods> but that's what makes linux so fun
[08:54:16] <archivist> can I run linuxcnc on http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36575947 :)
[08:57:27] <Jymmmm> archivist: I'm afraid not, at least not till the 9 axis limit has been change to 9000 axis ;)
[08:59:21] <archivist> cnc millipede
[08:59:30] <Jymmm> haha
[08:59:44] <Jymmm> ...crawling up the side of a skyscraper
[08:59:57] <archivist> there may be a few spare cores in an implementation
[09:00:17] <Jymmm> multi-core per axis ?
[09:00:35] <Jymmm> multi centipeds!!!
[09:00:51] <Jymmm> robotic ant colony?
[09:07:20] <Jymmm> skunky!!!
[09:19:46] <skunkworks> who?
[09:30:08] <Jymmm> skunkworks: EWE!!!
[10:13:44] <lair82> Ok pcw_home, now things are working the way they should, it is building 4.1.20-rt23
[10:36:49] <JT-Shop> lair82: here is pcw's modified instructions for 4.1.20-rt23 http://paste.ubuntu.com/17596223/
[10:38:26] <gregcnc> "About 4.5 billion years ago, it took the Earth just six hours to complete one rotation. About 350 million years ago, it took 23 hours. Today, of course, it takes about 24 hours. And the days will gradually get longer still."
[10:38:37] <gregcnc> eventually there will be enough time in the day
[10:41:11] <lair82> Thanks JT-Shop, I hand edited my file here, but haven't saved it to my server yet, so I'll just use yours.
[10:53:45] <MacGalempsy> good morning all
[11:02:33] <plpower> cool millings today hi
[11:02:58] <plpower> sams that all day the same persons are in the chat
[11:03:39] <plpower> Polymorphism: why dident you go for 12.04
[11:04:07] <plpower> its the perfect match on all CAD/CAM free stuff
[11:08:45] <MacGalempsy> JT-Shop: do you have any experience using a rotory encoder with classic ladder?
[11:19:44] <CaptHindsight> Cool Millings - Four Jamaican machinists dream of competing in the Machining Olympics, despite never having seen a machine tool. With the help of a disgraced former champion desperate to redeem himself, the Jamaicans set out to become worthy of Olympic selection, and go all out for glory.
[11:20:38] <plpower> i go home bye shop closing
[11:20:39] <gregcnc> meanwhile the russian olympic machinist team is banned for spiking the coolant
[11:20:49] <CaptHindsight> lol
[11:23:24] <CaptHindsight> http://www.walmart.com/ip/Xyzprinting-Inc-Nobel-1.0-3D-Printer-Clear-Grey/51894025 $1100!
[11:24:49] <CaptHindsight> 2-day shipping for $4.97
[11:25:37] <SpeedEvil> interesting
[11:25:38] <CaptHindsight> I guess the average joe gets reamed on shipping small quantities of small packages
[11:26:06] <CaptHindsight> same for international small packages
[11:26:15] <SpeedEvil> I keep being annoyed at the prices of stuff from china if you're willing to buy 100kg and arrange shipment yourself
[11:27:05] <CaptHindsight> I can send 150lbs of freight by air for $250 half way around the world to a nearest airport, airport to final destination is 200% more
[11:28:34] <CaptHindsight> it's cheaper for me to send my 50# box on a pallet with some sand bags to hit 150# then send it as a 50# box on its own
[12:00:47] <JT-Shop> lair82: pcw also gave me his .config file do you need that?
[12:01:02] <JT-Shop> MacGalempsy: as in a turret encoder?
[12:01:10] <MacGalempsy> yes
[12:27:16] <tiwake> dododo
[12:43:39] <JT-Shop> yes, I've done that on my CHNC
[13:01:17] <MacGalempsy> JT-Shop: I don't see anything in the classic ladder section on how to go about that. Any help in the right direction?
[13:13:20] <JT-Shop> and example here http://gnipsel.com/shop/hardinge/hardinge.xhtml
[13:13:35] <JT-Shop> is your encoder absolute?
[13:14:11] <JT-Shop> and a sim to explore with http://gnipsel.com/files/linuxcnc/configs/cl-turret-sim.zip
[13:41:17] <Demure_> Question: The MESA 7i76 that I'm wiring up mentions that it needs to be powered by either field power or a VIN with common ground to field power
[13:41:27] <Demure_> ...I have no idea what they mean with field power and VIN, in this case.
[13:42:48] <Demure_> VIN sure, but if it needs a common ground to field power I'll need to know what this field power is.
[13:43:55] <CaptHindsight> http://www.mesanet.com/pdf/parallel/7i76man.pdf
[13:44:10] <Demure_> I have the manual right here
[13:44:33] <Demure_> But it's not explaining it much further than that, or I'm missing something.
[13:46:49] <CaptHindsight> VIN and VFIELD are either shorted together when W1 is in the default position
[13:47:16] <CaptHindsight> or not connected to each other when W1 is in the right hand position
[13:47:38] <Demure_> But what is VFIELD? Is it the 5v coming from the mothercard?
[13:48:14] <CaptHindsight> you'll have to supply VFIELD yourself from a separate power supply
[13:48:23] <Frank_11> 7i76 out of stock T_T whyyy noww
[13:48:38] <CaptHindsight> VFIELD = FIELD POWER 8-32V
[13:48:59] <Demure_> But when it says I need to supply either VFIELD or VIN, does it simply mean you either suply VFIELD and it's both VIN and VFIELD, or you supply them both seperately?
[13:52:04] <CaptHindsight> you can supply them separately from 2 different power supplies or ...
[13:52:25] <Demure_> Okay, I understand. I think my confusion came from not understanding the benefit and thinking I didn't understand it, thanks.
[13:52:49] <CaptHindsight> from 1 power supply if you short w1 by placing it in the right hand position
[13:53:02] <CaptHindsight> yeah, it's not written very clearly
[13:53:12] <Demure_> 1 power supply it is. :)
[13:53:51] <CaptHindsight> a simple reduced schematic would also clear up the confusion
[13:54:21] <Demure_> True, and a small pinout diagram wouldn't hurt either.
[13:54:35] <Demure_> Instead of simply having to count up from every terminal
[13:58:33] <Demure_> Secondly, on wiring up switches and the likes: I have for example the ALARM wires from the leadshine adapter that deliver 30v which should be fine for the I/O inputs, should I wire the positive to the input terminal and the negative to ground on the board? Would it mess up the board if I were to wire these to the case grounding (Which is also the ground for the 230v in)?
[13:58:37] <Demure_> Sorry for all the beginner questions.
[13:59:31] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/configs/index.html
[13:59:46] <JT-Shop> look at the 7i77 board for wiring examples
[13:59:57] <Demure_> Thanks, didn't come across that page before
[14:00:02] <Demure_> Should be useful. :)
[14:01:53] <roycroft> when i get my new vfd i plan on connecting the output of 2 phases through a double pole, triple throw toggle switch
[14:02:05] <roycroft> i would use that to reverse direction of the motor, and to stop the motor
[14:02:15] <roycroft> i would leave the third phase connected to the motor at all times
[14:02:27] <roycroft> (there will be a master power switch for the vfd, of course, that kills everything)
[14:02:51] <roycroft> am i correct that this setup should pose no problem for the vfd?
[14:04:41] <djdelorie> the VFD should have its own reversing options
[14:05:07] <djdelorie> any switching that switch while the motor is running would likely ruin the vfd
[14:05:10] <roycroft> the vfd will not be located within easy reach
[14:05:24] <roycroft> ok, i shall not use that switch then
[14:05:25] <djdelorie> most vfds have an easy-to-wire remote control option
[14:05:35] <roycroft> the vft may have a wired remote operation option
[14:05:47] <roycroft> it does have an analog input, which i'll use for speed control
[14:05:49] <djdelorie> the setups I've seen have the vfd in an electrical panel, remote, with a set of controls local to the machine
[14:06:14] <roycroft> i'll sort it out when the vfd arrives
[14:06:23] <djdelorie> having said, that, my bridgeport has a reversing switch on it, like you're contemplating, I just have to be careful to not touch it
[14:07:00] <roycroft> for my application a reversing switch isn't really even necessary - i'll likely not use it often
[14:07:04] <djdelorie> side note: I regret not getting the braking resistor option, it's on my list of things to add to my vfd :-)
[14:07:12] <roycroft> but i figured as long as i'm doing the build i might as well get one
[14:07:30] <roycroft> i'm glad i asked about that switch
[14:07:43] <djdelorie> if you don't already have one, don't add one. You might need to swap two of the wires to get "forward" right, but just once then never change it again
[14:07:52] <roycroft> even though though it's a cheap vfd, i prefer not pissing money down the toilet
[14:08:15] <roycroft> yeah, i figure i'll have to do some experimenting to get "forward" correct
[14:08:16] <cradek> if you have a manual machine's spindle hooked to real 3 phase power, that reversing switch is a normal setup
[14:08:22] <roycroft> i only have a 50% chance of getting it right the first time
[14:08:28] <cradek> but with a vfd, nope that's the vfd's job
[14:08:36] <djdelorie> cradek: yup, like mine, and hopefully the grid can handle the backfeed :-)
[14:08:59] <cradek> reverses fast, nice for tapping, makes a bit of a thunk noise
[14:09:17] <djdelorie> ^^ why I regret not getting the braking resistor
[14:09:19] <roycroft> instant reverse can be nice
[14:09:36] <roycroft> and it's about as instantaneous as intantaneous gets
[14:09:40] <cradek> djdelorie: just take one of the elements out of an electric oven
[14:09:54] <djdelorie> digikey sells the right resistor for cheap
[14:10:39] <roycroft> i wonder of a harbor freight car battery tester would work well as a braking resistor
[14:10:51] <roycroft> those are cheap
[14:11:07] <djdelorie> 12V != 370V
[14:11:26] <roycroft> i'm not sure what voltage they're rated at
[14:11:37] <roycroft> a lot of components are used at 12v that are rated at much higher voltage
[14:11:53] <djdelorie> resistors are typically rated for power, not voltage, but they'd be the wrong resistance to be effective at other voltages
[14:11:55] <djdelorie> well, probably.
[14:12:33] * djdelorie wonders if an incandescent light bulb would make an effective braking resistor...
[14:12:52] <djdelorie> (assuming I could find a 240v one)
[14:13:21] <cradek> light bulbs are extremely nonlinear
[14:13:30] <djdelorie> btw, capacitors are typically rated for max voltage, and inductors rated for max current.
[14:13:45] <djdelorie> cradek: yeah, sigh. They're cheap :-)
[14:15:02] <Demure_> Since pins 1 to 4 all are listed as VFIELD, does that mean I can input it through pin 1 and use the rest of the 3 pins as inputs for switches and such?
[14:19:31] <djdelorie> My guess would have been "they all need to be connected to the power supply" but there should have been an equal number of ground connections for that...
[14:21:13] <Demure_> There's only one indeed
[14:21:51] <PCW__> it depends on your loads, if you have typical relay loads, 1 pin is enough, if you have 300MA from each output then I would use all 4
[14:22:47] <djdelorie> ah, so the extra grounds aren't needed because the driven components are independently grounded?
[14:23:07] <PCW__> there is only 30 ma or so of ground current
[14:23:31] <PCW__> ( the outputs are high side switches )
[14:23:46] <djdelorie> yeah, that's what I meant. No low-side switching.
[14:28:41] <PCW__> I think the REVB cards actually do ground the NC pins. I should update the manual
[14:30:25] <PCW__> If we change to NCV7719s output drivers we will need that also (since they can source/sink or do push-pull)
[14:55:26] <djdelorie> PCW__: reading through the 7i76 manual, I can see how it would be confusing for someone not familiar with what a "field" is...
[14:57:18] <djdelorie> and some of the wording could be misinterpreted as "the 7i76 provides isolated power to..." instead of "the 7i76 requires an external isolated power supply"
[15:09:34] <PCW__> There are also a bunch of errors in the 7I76/7I77 manuals Ill look at them probably next week
[15:33:11] <Demure_> What's the 'traditional' way of going from two wires to having an array of them? Something like a 2 to 10 screw terminal block or something?
[15:33:51] <Demure_> Or would it be okay to put the 80v power supply and the KBIC DC motor controller in series to 230v?
[15:37:17] <djdelorie> Demure_: for power, the search term you're looking for is a "bus bar"
[15:37:37] <Demure_> Ahhhh
[15:37:41] <Demure_> That's exactly what I was looking for. :)
[15:38:04] <PCW__> For things like the 7I77 we supply the COMMX2
[15:38:17] <Demure_> Without the knowledge sometimes it's a little tough to find the right parts, parts exist for all common purposes but if you don't have the exact term at hand, finding it can be tough.
[15:38:27] <djdelorie> yup
[15:39:22] <Demure_> And I think I might even have a few of those in a box somewhere, they look familiar enough.. Thanks!
[15:39:46] <djdelorie> Make sure they're rated for the voltage you're using; safety is important with these things...
[15:44:45] <Demure_> Of course! I'm partially scared to death with wiring everything up, so I triple check everything I can find.
[15:45:01] <Demure_> I'm pretty sure the wire gauge I've been using for all these wires is overkill, too, but no harm in that.
[15:47:03] <djdelorie> bigger gauge is OK, the only drawbacks are cost and inflexibility
[15:59:47] <Demure_> Would it be acceptable to make a bus bar by using a line of euro terminal blocks and simply wiring one side from pin to pin (i.e. connecting all of them) and feeding ground into the first one?
[16:01:49] <gregcnc> you may consider din rail terminal blocks
[16:02:13] <Nick001-shop> Mounting an AMC driver 25A20) - Should it be mounted with the large flat side to sheet metal or would it radiate better mounted on the short side with the large sides out in the air?
[16:04:41] <enleth> Nick001-shop: the large flat side should be attached to a radiator of about the same dimensions as the drive, with the fins vertical for convection cooling
[16:06:31] <gregcnc> I would say it all depends on how much heat you really need to dissipate
[16:07:52] <enleth> well that's what the manuals for drives like this say
[16:08:16] <enleth> you can probably get away with just the sheet metal enclosure for heat dissipation
[16:08:20] <Nick001-shop> it would be a piece of flat sheet metal 7" x 19". I'm mounting in an AB cabinet on the rear of a Hardinge HCNC
[16:09:05] <Nick001-shop> In the same position as the HI-AK amps I'm pulling out
[16:11:45] <Nick001-shop> CHNC - always getting that one wrong
[16:19:28] <Demure_> Is there any part that will readily split a power supply line into two? And if so, what is the name?
[16:21:36] <enleth> Demure_: a terminal block of this style: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/interface-modules/6188213/
[16:22:15] <Demure_> But if I'd only need two, wouldn't that be a bit overkill?
[16:22:44] <enleth> there are smaller versions
[16:22:57] <Demure_> Ok, thanks, I'll have a look
[16:23:52] <Demure_> In the one you linked it has 4 busses, does this generally mean that each can be used separately or are they internally all connected?
[16:24:30] <enleth> they're separate
[16:24:46] <enleth> this one in particular is intended for 3phase+N mains distribution
[16:24:57] <Deejay> gn8
[16:25:11] <Demure_> Ok, good to know, thanks.
[16:25:16] <Frank_11> anyone knows if the mesa store acepts paypal?
[16:25:18] <Demure_> Night Deejay.
[16:25:24] <enleth> Demure_: and it does a damn good job with it, get one if you're ever doing any significant mains wiring
[16:25:37] <enleth> Demure_: otherwise take a look at those photos: https://www.google.pl/search?q=din+rail+terminal+block&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiT_bGbv7fNAhUsJJoKHYWZCtYQ_AUICCgB&biw=1920&bih=966
[16:26:16] <Demure_> enleth: It looks quite nice, yes. Small question: Is it okay to have common grounds between say the 24 power supply and the straight 230v?
[16:26:29] <Demure_> The last image just makes it look like lego. :)
[16:26:35] <enleth> Demure_: those are individual rail-mounted two-way terminals, but most systems have this feature where you can jumper adjacent terminals
[16:27:20] <enleth> Demure_: with a steel "jumper strip" that you cut to length and screw onto the terminal blocks in the middle, they have a semi-exposed plate with a screw hole each for this
[16:27:29] <Demure_> Yeah, I see it in one of the images, a jumper bar.
[16:27:46] <Demure_> If I had more space in my enclosure I'd think redoing it all with rails, that seems like a joy to set up
[16:27:52] <gregcnc> there are also some blocks with 3-4 connections
[16:28:05] <enleth> Demure_: that's the way it's usually done in industrial control enclosures if a signal needs more wires attached to it
[16:28:40] <Demure_> I can understand why, looks versatile.
[16:28:56] <enleth> Demure_: as for shared ground - you shouldn't use random stuff like the enclosure and machine body for the DC ground
[16:29:01] <enleth> that introduces ground loops
[16:29:24] <Demure_> Hmm, I see. But I should use the enclosure for the AC ground, no?
[16:29:46] <enleth> yes, but that's just for operator safety
[16:29:58] <enleth> I'd rather say that the enclosure should be grounded
[16:30:18] <enleth> not necessarily used for ground distribution
[16:31:32] <Demure_> I see.
[16:32:53] <enleth> oh, that's another nifty feature of DIN rails by the way - there are those green-yellow terminals with steel "grippers" instead of a typical plastic rail foot, that connect their screw terminals to the rail
[16:33:09] <enleth> so you can use the rail itself for ground distribution
[16:34:05] <Demure_> Don't make me feel bad for already having picked my enclosure and being this far into the process, haha. But good to know for the next project.
[16:36:21] <enleth> http://i.imgur.com/sLWdoHb.jpg - shitty photo but it gets the idea across. note the lack of ground wires. there would only be one or two if the 2nd and 3rd rail had any ground terminals, to jumper them together
[16:36:55] <enleth> that's just mains wiring, but the same thing works for control boxes
[16:37:23] <Demure_> I understand, plus results in a very clean and nice looking box. :)
[16:37:43] <enleth> there's one of those 4-pole terminal blocks in there too
[16:38:40] <Demure_> I noticed
[16:40:23] <enleth> also, use stranded wire only, and remember that steel ferrules should be used to terminate the wire for any screw terminals that don't shield the screw end with some sheet spring steel
[16:41:10] <enleth> otherwise the screw will cut into individual strands and they will break off one by one over time as the whole thing moves sligthly from thermal cycling
[16:42:53] <Demure_> You mean screw terminals that just put the screw straight onto the stands versus screw terminals that have two plates of metal clamped together?
[16:43:24] <enleth> yeah, or even just a small piece of spring steel covering the screw
[16:43:27] <Demure_> The latter being for example the genericly looking green ones in Leadshine drivers etc.
[16:45:09] <enleth> yes, the green PCB mounted screw terminals are OK for bare stranded wire, because the screw just moves a rectangular "cage" and the inside surfaces are slightly serrated to hold onto the whole bundle
[16:45:35] <Demure_> Ok, good to know. I have a few terminals with only screws, but those should be easy to replace.
[16:46:27] <enleth> you can still use a ferrule with the proper ones if you feel particularily pedantic
[16:46:54] <enleth> but make sure to use one if you can't replace the bare screw terminals for any reason
[16:47:03] <Demure_> One of those power blocks you mentioned earlier would be a more well suited replacement and also solves some other questions, so I think that'll be it.
[16:47:29] <enleth> oh, and those mains power blocks usually have unshielded screws and absolutely require ferrules
[16:47:53] <enleth> that's justified for mains distribution - they're just thick chunks of brass with holes drilled
[16:47:55] <Demure_> Surely there's one to be found that doesn't use a plain screw?
[16:48:18] <enleth> not for high currents
[16:48:59] <enleth> but they're absolutely fine - as long as you do use a ferrule
[16:49:38] <Demure_> Ok, guess that's the way
[16:50:02] <enleth> and if you don't have one, get a nice ferrule crimper
[16:51:02] <Demure_> I don't at the moment, but I do still have some heavy gauge wire with ferrules at the end left over from an older machine that will do for now / while I wait for the right tools and parts.
[16:52:01] <enleth> like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Adjustable-Ratcheting-Ferrule-Crimper-Plier-800-Connector-Terminal-Box-Tool-Kit-/291783169078 (crimps the wire square)
[16:52:18] <enleth> or this http://www.ebay.com/itm/Self-Adjust-Ratchet-ferrule-crimper-cable-end-sleeves-HSC8-6-6-AWG23-10-New-/320839046599 (more contact points, forms a hexagon)
[16:53:06] <Demure_> Is the same tool usable for crimping quick disconnect connectors and such?
[16:54:14] <enleth> not sure, I'd have to see a photo of one
[16:55:10] <enleth> but I don't think so - as the tool encloses the wire from all sides, whatever you're clamping must pass through the opening our you're not getting the crimper off the wire
[16:55:18] <roycroft> that's a pretty cheap crimper
[16:55:29] <roycroft> the ferrule crimpers i have are more like $300
[16:55:46] <enleth> yeah, but this style works for small gauge wiring
[16:55:49] <Demure_> The fused power connector I have came with quick connects, but I'm a tiny bit worried about the open connectors so close to the thyroid transformer. Should I put some heatshrink on there?
[16:56:12] <roycroft> i have some for crimping ferrules on coax conductors
[16:56:13] <enleth> yep, heatshrink is a good idea
[16:56:37] <enleth> roycroft: that's a completely different crimper type, isn't it?
[16:57:01] <roycroft> it looks similar to that picture, but perhaps not
[16:57:08] <roycroft> i'm talking about crimping the center pins
[16:57:14] <roycroft> on a bnc connector
[16:57:24] <roycroft> it does a hex crimp on the pin
[16:57:33] <roycroft> then i need a different crimp tool for the outer sleeve
[16:59:20] <enleth> I think the coax crimpers I've seen have flat anvils
[16:59:33] <roycroft> yes, for the outer sleeve
[16:59:49] <FloppyDisk> I have this crimper:
[16:59:49] <FloppyDisk> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Self-Adjusting-Ratcheting-Ferrule-Crimper-Plier-HSC8-6-4A-0-25-6mm-AWG23-10/111954507354
[17:00:07] <enleth> roycroft: http://www.epanorama.net/newepa/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/crimpresults.jpg - so the pin is crimped with indentations like this?
[17:00:17] <FloppyDisk> It's only 'OK', the spring doesn't seem strong enough for smaller diameters, the larger are okay due to the radius...
[17:00:41] <FloppyDisk> But, good enough for how little I use it, just crimp multiple times (which takes time...)
[17:01:15] <roycroft> i have too damn many expensive crimp tools that's all i know
[17:01:41] <roycroft> no, enleth, that's not what the one i'm talking about does
[17:02:07] <roycroft> the crimper works kind of like a camera lens aperture
[17:02:22] <roycroft> all six sides slide in at once
[17:02:27] <roycroft> and separately
[17:02:55] <enleth> FloppyDisk: one of mine looks identical, I found it adequate for anything in the 0.75mm^2 to 6mm^2 range as long as the ferrule is actually proper size for the wire, too big a ferrule and it would collapse, possibly jam the crimper somewhat and leave an ugly mess
[17:03:28] <roycroft> my power cable crimper cost me $1800
[17:03:35] <roycroft> but it is hydraulic
[17:03:49] <roycroft> 10 tons of crimping force
[17:03:58] <Sync> FloppyDisk: the non cloner version works very well
[17:04:43] <FloppyDisk> Yeah - my point was that the cloner version works, but a little 'you get what you pay for.' Although, enleth's point about ferrule size might also add to my issue...
[17:05:12] <FloppyDisk> I still recommend it - highly actually! Just pointing out my issue and I do think enleth has a point about the ferrule size.
[17:05:14] <enleth> roycroft: but that's for much thicker aluminum/copper ferrules, right?
[17:05:28] <FloppyDisk> Oh, I was also using cheapy chinese ferrules.
[17:05:48] <FloppyDisk> They work, but I really made sure I checked them to make sure the 22awg wires wouldn't pull out...
[17:07:22] <enleth> roycroft: I had one of those for a while, borrowed from a friend, they're nice
[17:07:23] <landau> hello..I compiled Linuxcnc with RTAI 4.1 and kernel 3.18.14 but when I start Linuxcnc I have this error: Error: could not insert module /home/ciccio/linuxcnc-dev/rtlib/rtapi.ko: Unknown symbol in module
[17:07:39] <landau> do you know how to solve it?
[17:08:13] <roycroft> https://www.tessco.com/products/displayProductInfo.do?sku=69854
[17:08:18] <roycroft> that's the type i have for bnc pins
[17:08:46] <roycroft> enleth: i used to work for a telco, and did a lot of central office buildouts
[17:08:53] <roycroft> i needed the big crimp tool for that
[17:09:03] <enleth> roycroft: I noticed they're usually available configured as wire/rod cutters as well - same body and motor, just a different set of jaws attached, with a wedge instead of a crimping anvil
[17:09:08] <roycroft> the dies for the hydraulic tool emboss the die size on the connector
[17:09:41] <roycroft> we were required to cover our crimped ends with clear heat shrink tubing, so the inspector could verify we used the correct die for the crimp
[17:10:20] <enleth> makes sense, they don't crimp properly otherwise
[17:10:23] <roycroft> https://www.amazon.com/Burndy-Y750HSXT-Revolver-Hydraulic-Operated/dp/B008KNIYGG?ie=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0
[17:10:25] <roycroft> that's what i use
[17:10:42] <enleth> ah, that style
[17:11:17] <roycroft> it works brilliantly, but it's a bit unwieldy when i have to climb up to the top of an 11' equipment rack to terminate some cables
[17:11:31] <roycroft> i don't do that kind of work any more, thank goodness, but i still have all the tools
[17:12:28] <enleth> there are handheld power crimpers available as well, they look like a cordless drill, but there's a small DC motor powered hydraulic pump inside
[17:12:35] <roycroft> yes i've seen those
[17:13:00] <roycroft> i don't think they take the burndy dies though
[17:13:18] <enleth> I've had one of those borrowed for a while, very handy
[17:13:32] <roycroft> i did not work for the telco that owned the central office
[17:13:37] <roycroft> i worked for a competing telco
[17:13:40] <enleth> and those are available with cutting jaws as well
[17:13:49] <roycroft> the co inspector did not want us there and did not like us at all
[17:13:55] <roycroft> his inspections were very thorough
[17:14:28] <landau> can you help me?
[17:14:33] <roycroft> i had to redo a bunch of connections at one co
[17:14:41] <roycroft> one of our techs forgot to bring a cable cutter
[17:14:57] <roycroft> and had to terminate a bunch of 705kcmil cables
[17:15:09] <roycroft> he used a pair of side cutters and kind of gnawed away at them
[17:15:42] <roycroft> when looking in the inspection window of the connector it lthe ends of the cables looked like a beaver had gnawed on asome logs
[17:15:50] <roycroft> the inspector was pretty pissed off about that
[17:16:26] <roycroft> i was embarrassed, even though it was not my work
[17:16:36] <enleth> damn, even a hacksaw would be better I guess
[17:16:57] <roycroft> they're not allowed inside a co
[17:17:00] <roycroft> no saws of any kind
[17:17:11] <malcom2073> Hehe I've used a hacksaw to cut large cable before
[17:17:14] <roycroft> saws make metal dust
[17:17:16] <enleth> makes sense, copper dust can't be good for equipment
[17:17:19] <landau> hello..I compiled Linuxcnc with RTAI 4.1 and kernel 3.18.14 but when I start Linuxcnc I have this error: Error: could not insert module /home/ciccio/linuxcnc-dev/rtlib/rtapi.ko: Unknown symbol in module
[17:17:22] <malcom2073> I usually clean it up with clippers before crimping though
[17:17:36] <roycroft> it made installing racks challenging
[17:17:54] <roycroft> threaded rod was not allowed to stick out more than 1/2 thread beyond the end of the nut
[17:18:03] <roycroft> so we'd cut a chunk of threaded rod
[17:18:04] <roycroft> install it
[17:18:10] <roycroft> torque everything down
[17:18:20] <roycroft> mark where the nut ends
[17:18:26] <roycroft> uninstall the whole thing
[17:18:28] <roycroft> go outside
[17:18:30] <roycroft> cut it to the mark
[17:18:32] <roycroft> go back in
[17:18:34] <roycroft> reinstall it
[17:18:37] <malcom2073> Sounds good if you're hourly
[17:18:54] <enleth> and curse the marred threads that nuts won't go on anymore
[17:18:56] <roycroft> it was tedious
[17:19:08] <roycroft> but i enjoyed the work
[17:19:08] <landau> please is there one of you that could help me?
[17:19:14] <roycroft> everything was nice and neat in the end
[17:19:27] <roycroft> i also enjoyed lacing cables, which is pretty much a lost art
[17:19:33] <roycroft> speaking of lost arts though
[17:19:45] <roycroft> our t1 panels were all wire-wrapped
[17:19:49] <enleth> roycroft: there are a few practitoners of this art here I think
[17:20:01] <roycroft> hardly anyone does wire wrapping any more
[17:20:34] <landau> hello..I compiled Linuxcnc with RTAI 4.1 and kernel 3.18.14 but when I start Linuxcnc I have this error: Error: could not insert module /home/ciccio/linuxcnc-dev/rtlib/rtapi.ko: Unknown symbol in module
[17:21:48] <CaptHindsight> landau: most here are users vs developers
[17:22:21] <landau> so?
[17:22:36] <CaptHindsight> landau: why are you building from scratch vs using the pre-built ISP?
[17:22:47] <CaptHindsight> ok Bender
[17:23:03] <landau> because I needed some GPU drivers
[17:23:25] <landau> i'm running on an Intel Atom D2700
[17:23:30] <enleth> landau: can't you use a prebuilt kernel and compile the drivers as a module for it/
[17:23:36] <enleth> *?
[17:24:01] <Demure_> ^ Should be possible, plus there's various driver options for most GPUs and not all work equally as well, either.
[17:24:08] <landau> I was wandering to compile a kernel also to have the Atom CPU optimizations
[17:24:25] <Demure_> For me it turned out the lowest latency I got was by using the most bland drivers and uninstalling all the pre-installed specific ones.
[17:24:56] <landau> ok
[17:24:59] <enleth> landau: there should be a kernel source package installed with the prebuilt one, you can use that to build additional modules, or even rebuild a kernel that should work with rtapi
[17:25:14] <landau> so no way to fix my error
[17:25:29] <landau> ok I'll try to do that
[17:25:56] <enleth> landau: theoretically, if you use the packaged sources, use /proc/config.gz as the kernel config and build it, the result should be equivalent to the packaged binary kernel
[17:26:18] <enleth> if it works, you can proceed to modify it
[17:26:45] <landau> So I try to download the newest kernel .deb package with source
[17:26:57] <landau> and try to recompile it
[17:27:19] <Frank_11> guys, im on the store of mesa webpage, and im in step 5: payment method, it only says add comments about your order: does that mean i have to write my debit card numbers??? i dont understand, thank you for any input
[17:27:37] <CaptHindsight> https://youtu.be/bTeYncx1xmI?t=1m36s so
[17:28:16] <CaptHindsight> landau: you'd have to post the last few lines of the dmesg to see the actual unknown symbol
[17:28:26] <landau> ok
[17:28:30] <landau> there are a lot
[17:29:04] <CaptHindsight> if you're going to build from source you better be ready to fix problems
[17:29:35] <landau> http://pastebin.com/raw/cM7zSZrc
[17:29:49] <landau> yeah I know
[17:30:01] <enleth> CaptHindsight: it sure would be nice to have clear working rebuild instructions for the shipped kernel binary
[17:30:13] <CaptHindsight> https://github.com/NTULINUX/RTAI is the only RTAI tree that is guaranteed to work with Linuxcnc
[17:30:24] <enleth> CaptHindsight: if the packages are using the kernel module building framework and all that stuff properly, it should be a piece of cake
[17:30:34] <landau> I indeed used this
[17:31:23] <CaptHindsight> Please refresh the page to continue... huh new pastebin.com issue
[17:31:33] <enleth> like, >install linuxcnc >apt-get [packages] >zcat /proc/config.gz > /usr/src/linux/.config > cd /usr/src/linux && make && make modules && make modules_install
[17:31:44] <enleth> that *should* be all it takes to get the exact same binary
[17:32:06] <enleth> then maybe rebuild external modules that come from different packages than the kernel itself
[17:32:18] <CaptHindsight> enleth: ask the devs, building for Debian isn't fun for me
[17:32:19] <enleth> (exact same save for compiler differences)
[17:32:45] <enleth> is there no guide like this on the wiki?
[17:33:16] <landau> http://pastebin.com/raw/zVEiuKUC
[17:33:40] <enleth> interesting, there is one but it doesn't use packaged sources
[17:35:47] <CaptHindsight> the guy that wrote all the RTAI stuff said that you must have skipped something or did something goofy
[17:36:01] <CaptHindsight> it's not fixable
[17:38:04] <CaptHindsight> enleth: a nice automated tool for building RTAI, kernels and Linuxcnc would be nice
[17:38:21] <CaptHindsight> but that is what the buildbot does I believe
[17:39:17] <enleth> so it's scripted outside of the usual .deb building process?
[17:39:28] <enleth> that would be weird
[17:42:39] <CaptHindsight> what "it's" do you refer?
[17:47:25] <CaptHindsight> enleth: ^^^
[17:52:54] <enleth> CaptHindsight: the buildbot
[17:54:44] <CaptHindsight> enleth: http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/dev.html http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/
[17:56:24] <enleth> it doesn't mention any non-pbuilder build tasks
[17:57:12] <CaptHindsight> so it looks like it only uses pbuilder
[17:58:07] <enleth> which means that it should be possible to rebuild the RTAI kernel more or less painlessly from a source package
[17:59:18] <enleth> https://kernel-handbook.alioth.debian.org/ch-common-tasks.html#s-common-official - this should work I suppose
[17:59:52] <enleth> I don't have the linuxcnc box at home to check, but I'll take a look at it next time I'm playing with it
[18:02:59] <CaptHindsight> i avoid doing any coding if possible
[18:04:14] <CaptHindsight> 2+2=4, unless you climbed through the window first then it's 5 or used that other tool chain, then it's between 3 and 5 :)
[18:07:15] <enleth> I'm used to that already, just haven't had any need for custom linuxcnc kernels yet
[18:08:23] <djdelorie> 2+2=5, for sufficiently large values of 2
[18:52:34] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/images/blast-cabinet/Blast%20Cabinet%2026.JPG
[18:52:39] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/images/blast-cabinet/Blast%20Cabinet%2025.JPG
[18:53:38] <_methods> oh yeah lookin good
[18:54:13] <JT-Shop> getting close
[18:54:22] <_methods> yeah man
[18:54:33] <_methods> you gonna powder coat it?
[18:55:19] <JT-Shop> na, just primer and paint
[18:55:26] <JT-Shop> won't fit in my oven lol
[18:55:55] <JT-Shop> next is to build a new powder coat oven...
[18:56:02] <_methods> hehe
[18:56:21] <_methods> doin it all
[18:56:34] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/images/equipment-shed/big-dig-08.jpg
[18:56:41] <JT-Shop> almost done with the big dig
[18:57:20] <_methods> you been a busy little beaver
[18:57:56] <JT-Shop> ready for some slack time to get the Edge 540 up and flying
[18:58:19] <CaptHindsight> JT-Shop: clearing land for new shop?
[18:58:51] <JT-Shop> an equipment shed and a place to work on equipment and a place to store some of the crap in here lol
[18:58:57] <_methods> hey ctrl+alt+f1 takes you to tty right?
[18:59:00] <_methods> in most distros
[18:59:09] <JT-Shop> 30x50x12 wood frame metal skin building
[18:59:38] <CaptHindsight> ctrl+alt+fx keep trying until you get TTY
[19:00:17] <CaptHindsight> never enough room
[19:00:17] <_methods> yeah weird i have an openelec distro on a rpi3 and it's not coming up
[19:00:18] <malcom2073> JT-Shop: Looking good
[19:00:22] <malcom2073> I need a shop like that heh
[19:00:23] <CaptHindsight> looking for new space as well
[19:01:38] <JT-Shop> seems it does the question is how do you get back from tty lol
[19:02:09] <_methods> ctrl+alt+f7 jt
[19:02:21] <_methods> will take you back to your x
[19:02:24] <_methods> or should
[19:14:42] <JT-Shop> I just did a boot lol
[19:14:53] <FloppyDisk> Nice shed and blast cabinet. I like the router in the background.
[19:16:38] <JT-Shop> plasma
[19:17:40] <JT-Shop> first EMC2 machine I built
[19:18:00] <roycroft> aah, the unmistakable aroma of china
[19:18:05] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/shop/plasma/plasma.xhtml
[19:19:58] <FloppyDisk> Cool - I probably looked at that on your site before...I was wondering what the 'cord' was for, not it makes sense...
[19:20:13] <FloppyDisk> oops - now.
[19:39:53] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop are you like parker on gold rush operating all that equipment by yourself?
[22:57:06] <tjtr33> crossed roler slides are great but the roller cages would creep from miniscule missalignment
[22:57:34] <tjtr33> now theres a 'studroller' mentioned in Nasa TechBriefs
[22:57:38] <tjtr33> https://www.motionsolutions.net/store/pc/Slide-Way-740p3751.htm
[22:58:01] <tjtr33> clever & simple
[23:03:04] <tiwake> dididi
[23:23:28] <CaptHindsight> hiyah tjtr33!