#linuxcnc | Logs for 2016-06-15

[00:01:16] <chopper79> 7i77.0.0.spinout
[00:01:30] <chopper79> I keep coming across this and I do not have it
[00:02:40] <FloppyDisk> Hmmmm I found on the mailing a list a bug w/ pncconf exactly for what you're using, trying to link to it.
[00:02:49] <FloppyDisk> Not sure it will answer, but it might help.
[00:03:14] <FloppyDisk> https://sourceforge.net/p/emc/bugs/433/
[00:03:34] <FloppyDisk> Hmmm, that's a bug, the key is that
[00:03:36] <FloppyDisk> <PCW> line 259
[00:03:36] <FloppyDisk> <PCW> net machine-is-enabled => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.spinena
[00:03:36] <FloppyDisk> <PCW> is really bad
[00:03:36] <FloppyDisk> <PCW> it should be
[00:03:36] <FloppyDisk> <PCW> net spindle-enable => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.spinena
[00:03:57] <FloppyDisk> but, there's a link there to a pncconf file, check that against yours for the spindle, maybe it will help??
[00:04:30] <FloppyDisk> I'm guessing that bug is probably fixed:-( So this might not be that helpful, other than a HAL example to compare.
[00:06:36] <chopper79> Tried the hal change and no luck
[00:07:29] <FloppyDisk> grrr...
[00:11:14] <FloppyDisk> You probably saw this link? I didn't read it all:
[00:11:15] <FloppyDisk> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/forum/49-basic-configuration/28276-mesa-5i25-7i77-0-10v-spindle-output-dual-spindles
[00:12:29] <FloppyDisk> I'm just skimming, maybe this? https://forum.linuxcnc.org/forum/49-basic-configuration/16485-spindle-w-pncconf--mesa-5i20-a-7i48-emc2-25#16500
[00:17:23] <chopper79> The first link I tried and received a ton of errors at startup. Tried fixing them but the rest fo the rros say that pins are not available.
[00:17:38] <chopper79> the second link seems really confusing and make no sense to me right now
[00:22:07] <FloppyDisk> Hmmm...
[00:24:25] <FloppyDisk> My suggestion is to post your config file to pastebin (or other site that you might use). I can try to look at it, but can't do much tonight... In the AM it's more active
[00:24:30] <FloppyDisk> irseeyou - what do you have for hardware? Can't point you to wire the encoder if we don't know what that is. Also, the right direction is the user's manual http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/
[00:25:03] <FloppyDisk> also, chopper79, I'm not the greatest at this, but will try.
[00:25:06] <irseeyou> FloppyDisk: I'm not running linuxcnc so that doesn't apply i guess
[00:25:40] <FloppyDisk> irseeyou - what is it you're trying to do??
[00:25:47] <irseeyou> FloppyDisk: make my XY table move
[00:25:57] <FloppyDisk> w/ Mach3?
[00:26:05] <chopper79> Right now the errors are insmod for abs failed, returned -1
[00:26:09] <irseeyou> the scsi based driver I had the computer with died
[00:26:18] <irseeyou> Yeah mach3
[00:26:29] <irseeyou> I have no idea how to hook it up with anything else
[00:30:05] <FloppyDisk> chopper79 https://sourceforge.net/p/emc/mailman/message/20429359/ Sounds like a Hal issue. Post your config and hal files to linuxcnc forum or elsewhere so we can look at them?? I'll try.
[00:31:58] <FloppyDisk> irseeyou - I would suggest the mach3 forum over at artsoft (or wherever it is). I would think that would be a better place to ask about getting mach3 to work. This is linuxcnc...
[00:32:03] <chopper79> I will look into it tomorrow. I need to hit the sack. Need to be up and at work in 4.5hrs. Thanks for the help
[00:32:18] <FloppyDisk> chopper79 - get some shut eye - sorry couldn't help more.
[00:33:29] <FloppyDisk> irseeyou Is there some place you can download - get your scsi based driver again? w/out it, I'd think you are going to have issues.
[00:33:44] <irseeyou> FloppyDisk: Nope the whole computer is fried
[00:33:57] <irseeyou> the software, the hardware...whole shebang
[00:34:07] <irseeyou> It's for a choherent model 42b laser system
[00:34:45] <FloppyDisk> So - you need a Mach3 SCSI coherent driver...
[00:35:11] <FloppyDisk> Or at least a driver from Coherent to receive Mach3 commands?
[00:35:26] <FloppyDisk> Something like that... Didn't know mach3 ran lasers, was it a welder?
[00:53:50] <irseeyou> FloppyDisk: Nah...it can be run on the plasma I bet...simple on/off control. Mach3 doesn't do SCSI at all though. At this point I'm probably going to just throw the unit in a bin or something and buy a new one.
[01:14:27] <archivist> cradek, see fig 66 for a way of measuring internal threads, I also have used a bit of peg wood screwed into the hole then unscrewed it and measured that optically (travelling microscope)
[01:14:49] <archivist> cradek, the missing link http://www.archivist.info/cnc/screw_error/Glazebrook.php
[01:50:26] <Jymmmm> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJHlwJ1gsms
[02:20:09] <Deejay> moin
[02:21:20] <FloppyDisk> gn8
[03:24:00] <Not-Renny> I feel like "will it blend?" is no longer the question.
[04:46:35] <MrFluffy> hello, has anyone here combined a laser engraver with a 4th axis mill? I know the controls are using the z axis to modulate voltage on the ttl input to the laser module, but I was thinking about using a different axis completely and telling my cam software somehow to make z moves as c axis or similar when the engraver toolholder is in the spindle.
[04:46:57] <MrFluffy> its only a 2w blue laser, no cutting, just to etch marks on things while theyre being cut.
[04:53:12] <XXCoder> heys
[05:12:43] <jthornton> morning
[05:15:43] <XXCoder> yo
[05:23:04] <XXCoder> MrFluffy: 4 axis laser is interesting concept heh
[05:24:14] <XXCoder> MrFluffy: honestly i would add another axis, and using that to control voltage.
[05:28:38] <MrFluffy> XXCoder, thats what I'm leaning towards doing, then maybe run the output from the depth map program through sed to change references from z to the new axis defined for laser power output
[05:29:11] <XXCoder> cool :)
[05:29:30] <XXCoder> if you figure how to attach both, you can do both on one program
[05:29:37] <XXCoder> would be complex though lol
[05:30:17] <MrFluffy> thats the aim, to keep it as a mill in the .ngc but let it pick up the little laser toolholder in the carousel and burn with it
[05:30:36] <XXCoder> I have seen weirder setup
[05:30:53] <XXCoder> I saw dermel as tool to drill sideways
[05:30:57] <MrFluffy> I have a high speed spindle I pick up like that already that has a offset programmed in so it can carry the motor to one side of the headstick
[05:30:57] <XXCoder> yeah.
[05:31:21] <MrFluffy> lol I have bid on a few right angle adapters to give me that function, but not using a dremel
[05:31:39] <MrFluffy> life expectancy of dremel bearing, you could use minutes reliably and not need hours
[05:31:52] <jthornton> my gel gloves should arrive today yea
[05:32:00] <MrFluffy> especially the newer ones that are supported with only one bearing
[05:32:03] <XXCoder> gel gloves lol
[05:32:50] <jthornton> and gel shorts due to arrive tomorrow
[06:17:09] <jthornton> hmm gnome3 failed to fully load... must be too bloated going to try a different desktop
[06:18:23] <_methods> xfce
[06:18:36] <_methods> nice and lightweight
[06:18:50] <XXCoder> xfce indeed
[06:18:56] <jthornton> yea, just thought I'd try gnome for a minute xfce next
[06:19:21] <XXCoder> I plan to try making HDPE plastic weekend. maybe. dunno lol
[06:20:54] <jthornton> your going to make some HDPE?
[06:21:08] <XXCoder> yeah out of milk gallons
[06:21:23] <XXCoder> though I need to find candy temperate thingy
[06:21:26] <jthornton> what temp does it melt?
[06:21:31] <XXCoder> it needs to be 350 degrees i think
[06:22:08] <SpeedEvil> Sometimes I wish it was possible to buy easily recycled sorted bales of plastic
[06:22:26] <SpeedEvil> In ones.
[06:22:36] <XXCoder> SpeedEvil: I wonder if you could just g to free recycling dump sites and grab piles of em
[06:22:41] <XXCoder> or is it stealing
[06:23:55] <_methods> yes that is definitely stealing
[06:24:09] <XXCoder> yeah I was pretty sure it was the case
[06:24:43] <XXCoder> one issue with making hdpe is making em into smaller peices
[06:24:48] <XXCoder> I dont wanna just cut em to parts
[06:24:52] <XXCoder> long work
[06:24:54] <_methods> the best place to try is local waterjet shops or sign shops
[06:25:09] <_methods> they'll have plenty of drops layin around and may let you buy or take chunks of it
[06:30:03] <XXCoder> cool
[06:30:06] <XXCoder> good tip, thanks
[06:30:17] <XXCoder> after all its trash they gonna take away, less the better
[06:31:36] <_methods> bad month for florida
[06:31:49] <_methods> gators eating babies now
[06:31:49] <XXCoder> in what way? hot?
[06:31:57] <XXCoder> ouch
[06:32:02] <gregcnc> plus the two others found eating bodies
[06:32:07] <_methods> gator ate a 2 y/o at disney world
[06:32:34] <XXCoder> gators is tough animals, they been around for millions of years.
[06:32:58] <XXCoder> there is only few older species, one of em is hagfish, at 500 million years
[06:35:39] <jthornton> gators can't swallow under water...
[06:36:38] <XXCoder> interesting
[06:37:45] * jthornton got to play with a huge gators tail in the swamp
[06:39:11] <XXCoder> laters
[06:57:14] <jthornton> time to dig
[08:48:49] <cradek> archivist: ooh I want that machine
[08:50:27] <archivist> it is an accessory to this http://www.archivist.info/cnc/screw_error/lamp_screw.php
[08:51:39] <archivist> I dont have the accessory, but is only a lever and pointer to engage the threads and transfer the action to the indicator
[09:15:10] <skunkworks> no
[09:15:23] <archivist> this has a silly price and worse postage for me http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162073253218
[09:29:02] <JT-Shop> I wonder what it weighs? if over 4lbs it has to go priority
[09:29:41] <cradek> archivist: the rusty screw, and even some decent ones in the same style/from the same era don't really have enough thread to engage any pointer
[09:30:09] <archivist> cradek use the peg wood method in the hole
[09:30:11] <cradek> I need to take a picture for you. it's hard to believe they'd even work.
[09:30:20] <cradek> ok, I'll try it
[09:30:59] <archivist> real fun when you break the wood in the hole :)
[09:31:18] <cradek> well they're through holes, so no problem
[09:31:43] <cradek> hm considering that, I wonder if I could count the internal threads with the microscope and then measure the length
[09:32:36] <archivist> after I unscrew the pegwood I use the travelling microscope to measure a few pitches
[09:33:18] <archivist> trouble with old stuff is random pitches used by the various makers
[09:33:43] <cradek> yeah I'm sure these are just random
[09:33:50] <_abc_> Hello. Can I make a feature request for the live cd / dvd releases? Please please PLEASE create something like echo "LinuxCNC 2.7.x release 07.2015" >/etc/release-linuxcnc or such. Digging endlessly inside a remote accessed machine to find this is not my idea of having fun.
[09:34:12] <_abc_> Also please ensure this file ends up on the installed hdd image if the user installs the system.
[09:34:17] <_abc_> *thanks* *hugs*
[09:34:35] <cradek> I don't understand what information you are trying to find - can you tell us what problem you are solving? maybe we can help.
[09:35:16] <cradek> for instance you can see what version of linuxcnc is installed, with dpkg -l linuxcnc
[09:35:26] <_abc_> How can I tell what version of linuxcnc is installed and running, knowing it's from a live cd, official from linuxcnc.org, installed to hdd, whenssh'd into it with no other means to get information (clueless problem between keyboard and chair at far end).
[09:36:06] <_abc_> Version being, the version of the live cd installed. /etc/issue says debian 2.7 which is okay, a 1st step.
[09:36:48] <cradek> that information doesn't matter, because package updates continue to change the system after the install
[09:36:49] <_abc_> I mean I could revert to mounting my own copied, sha1sum some key files, and play detective on the remote machine using that. Surely there is another way?
[09:37:05] <_abc_> I really have to know what cd he used when he installed it. Of course he does not remember.
[09:37:06] <cradek> what problem are you solving where you think this information is part of the puzzle?
[09:37:11] <cradek> why?
[09:37:23] <_abc_> Okay, I get the point. Thanks. I will see how this goes on.
[09:37:32] <cradek> please help me understand the situation
[09:37:36] <_abc_> Just note my feature request, it remains standing.
[09:37:37] <_abc_> Thanks
[09:37:41] <_methods> wtf
[09:37:54] <cradek> hmm
[09:37:58] <_methods> the internetz is full of some strange people
[09:38:26] <cradek> I wish I knew what problem he was having; I probably could have helped
[09:38:29] <archivist> I am not striving to be normal :)
[09:38:32] * _methods thought dpkg -l linuxcnc was a great solution
[09:38:54] <_methods> i think he was just trying to see what version he had installed
[09:38:56] <cradek> yes but I feel like there was more to the problem
[09:39:04] <_methods> but he wasn't explaining his issue very well
[09:39:06] <archivist> what if he was on an older ubuntu distribution
[09:39:51] <archivist> and why did he/other person look at the top border of axis
[09:39:59] <cradek> he would still get the linuxcnc version in the same way
[09:40:00] <archivist> not look
[09:40:07] <cradek> yes also it shows that on the screen...
[09:40:11] <_methods> lol
[09:40:17] <cradek> ... but I feel like there was more to the problem
[09:40:20] <_methods> help>about
[09:40:31] <cradek> /etc/debian_version also has the OS version
[09:40:32] <_methods> any number of ways to ascertain
[09:40:45] <cradek> I dunno
[09:40:50] <archivist> but not the one HE expected
[09:41:08] <_methods> well you were admirably patient and helpful during that strange encounter
[09:41:58] <cradek> I think he wanted to know what software is on the machine, probably including stuff other than linuxcnc. but knowing what CD/network install was used to originally install does not answer that question in any useful way, but querying the package manager does
[09:43:00] <cradek> anyway I hope my answer helped
[09:43:32] <jdh> that information at install would be valid for about the same time you would remember what you installed
[09:44:11] <cradek> yeah it's normal to run updates right away (the update notifier pops up the first time you log in) and that can change many packages, including linuxcnc
[09:54:02] <jdh> if you have a solution in mind, it can be hard to re-think your problem
[09:55:29] <archivist> I see the pre-conceived wrong idea all too often
[09:56:08] <cradek> yes exactly! support people really need to suss out the problem when someone comes in and asks for help with a certain already-decided solution
[09:58:12] <_methods> well i don't think he was very patient or helpful about the situation, further complicating things
[09:59:27] <_methods> getting huffy and demanding some very vague feature be added isn't really the best way to get help
[10:00:06] <cradek> it's fine, my feelings aren't hurt :-)
[10:00:54] <_methods> hehe
[10:03:02] <eeriegeek> Hi, I my flubulator won't work because the thingmajub is wonky, so I need a new burglelump, can you help me pick a snerdaloop to help install it?
[10:03:23] <cradek> eeriegeek: apt-get install snerdaloop
[10:03:46] <eeriegeek> I'm using BeOS
[10:27:45] <jdh> which version
[10:30:46] <CaptHindsight> ...socially awkward narcissist asks question/makes statement on IRC, news at 11...
[10:32:00] <_methods> hey leave Jymmm out of this
[10:33:11] * Jymmm pisses in _methods cheerios
[10:33:44] <Jymmm> nuttin awkward bout that!
[10:33:58] <_methods> hahah
[10:36:00] <oc2k1> Hi, currently I'm try to make an working ebuild for gentoo. It compiles and installes but therer are some language files at the wrong place. Here is the file list: https://dpaste.de/1LuU
[10:37:07] <cradek> yep those first ones sure look wrong
[10:38:18] <oc2k1> which is the normal location? or are they not installed at all?
[10:39:32] <cradek> oc2k1: dpkg -L linuxcnc: http://paste.ubuntu.com/17364956/
[10:40:06] <cradek> that machine has v2.6.12 installed
[10:41:28] <cradek> po/Submakefile:install-locale: $(addprefix $(DESTDIR)$(localedir)/, $(MO_FILES))
[10:41:34] <oc2k1> look like the locals are installed in / instead /usr/share/locale/
[10:42:03] <cradek> looks like localedir comes from configure - check for bogusness there
[10:42:16] <cradek> did you run configure with --with-locale-dir=...?
[10:42:25] <oc2k1> no
[10:42:45] <oc2k1> that is the ebuild https://dpaste.de/a6X1/raw
[10:42:49] <cradek> maybe the default is wrong for gentoo?
[10:43:29] <cradek> brb
[10:57:34] <CaptHindsight> can someone make a winders version of Linuxcnc by next month? just asking
[11:16:04] <Deejay> re
[11:47:28] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20160615-cosine-additive-to-develop-large-scale-am1-3d-printer-in-partnership-with-ornl.html your tax dollars wasted
[11:48:06] <CaptHindsight> they could SLA molds for thermoplastics much faster and at higher res
[12:01:58] <archivist> er wot ultrafast? Max flow rate: 3.5 kg / 24hrs
[12:08:22] <gregcnc> Are there any cheap and accurate AC/DC clamp meters? this is all over ebay etc. www.ebay.com/itm/121615916123
[12:10:47] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: I use the ones by Fluke that connect to any multimeter
[12:11:57] <archivist> I dont expect that style to measure low current well
[12:13:02] <CaptHindsight> yeah, not good for <1A
[12:14:37] <gregcnc> need to search for "current probe"
[12:17:04] <CaptHindsight> http://www.fluke-direct.com/product/fluke-90i-610s-ac-dc-current-probe don't recall paying that price in the 80's
[12:18:08] <archivist> they know how to charge!, I gont one at an ex army store
[12:18:50] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fluke-80i-400-AC-Current-Probe-Clamp-Style-/371635854112 clone for $40
[12:19:28] <Gene81> lo andy
[12:20:02] <CaptHindsight> anyone try the Fluke portable scopes? http://www.fluke-direct.com/products/search?search=oscilloscope
[12:20:10] <gregcnc> Yeah they are expensive or I wouldn't be looking. We found a china one that was OK like 10 years ago for ~70USD. i should ask my old boss if those are still available/good
[12:20:30] <Gene81> Anybody here that is familiar with glade-gtk2?
[12:20:40] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: Do I look like someone who would spend £3000 on something that would fit in a pocket?
[12:20:52] <andypugh> Gene81: I have used it.
[12:21:20] <gregcnc> I played with a fluke scope like that a long time ago. They let people check hardware out of the lab overnight/weekend where I worked.
[12:21:51] <Gene81> I get an error msg its looking for gtksourceview-2 and can't find it. The libs are installed
[12:22:10] <gregcnc> figured out exactly were my audio amps clipped
[12:22:26] <Gene81> and ldconfig shows them
[12:22:35] <archivist> I dont like the slow update of the LCD of the one I tried
[12:23:30] <andypugh> Gene81: I know that there are compatibilty issues of some unspecified type.
[12:23:33] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: used Fluke one http://www.ebay.com/itm/FLUKE-80i-400-AC-CURRENT-PROBE-660-Volts-AC-RMS-AND-INSTRUCTIONS-item-10107/172236997064
[12:24:05] <andypugh> But it seems to work on my Debian system. I can’t remember how I fored it, though.
[12:24:24] <gregcnc> that's cheap. DC would be nice
[12:24:36] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: have you come across any new portable LCD scopes that feel like the old tube scopes?
[12:24:39] <Gene81> I also installed the gtk3 version of glade, needs tons of tlc to catch up :) took it out again
[12:25:13] <CaptHindsight> spend the extra $10 and use a fast TFT LCD or OLED
[12:26:31] <andypugh> CaptHindsight: I haven’t even looked. I use a cute little Tek 336
[12:26:44] <Gene81> andypugh: would it do any good to make a softlink from the 2.so.0.0.0 to the bare name?
[12:27:28] <andypugh> Gene81: My glade version shows as 3.8.0-0ubuntu6
[12:27:51] <andypugh> Gene81: Your soft-linking and willy-nilly copying of files scares me.
[12:28:05] <Gene81> andypugh: And it doesn't report this error?
[12:28:34] <andypugh> No, it appears to work. But I don’t know what I did to make it work all those months ago.
[12:28:40] <Gene81> andypugh: for reading the docs, it works just fine
[12:29:34] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: was guessing that you might have one at the office
[12:29:39] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui/gladevcp.html#_exploring_the_user_interface_description says "The required glade program may be named glade-gtk2 on more recent systems"
[12:29:43] <andypugh> Gene81: Actually, it complains loudly when I start it from the command line, now that I try that.
[12:30:39] <cradek> and here are the installation instructions: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui/gladevcp.html#gladevcp:prerequisites
[12:31:10] <cradek> does this not work anymore?
[12:31:14] <Gene81> andypugh: So it appears we both have similar code under the version, mine shows 3.8.0
[12:32:07] <andypugh> So, start it from the GUI and you won’t see the error messages :-)
[12:32:33] <andypugh> As I said, it seems to work regardless.
[12:33:29] <Gene81> cradek: it appears to work but I've not loaded any code I use, don't want it mucked. This is the error when launched from the cli:
[12:34:08] <Gene81> (glade-3:29094): GladeUI-CRITICAL **: Unable to load module 'gtksourceview-2.0' from any search paths
[12:34:08] <Gene81> (glade-3:29094): GladeUI-WARNING **: Failed to load external library 'gtksourceview-2.0'
[12:34:08] <andypugh> Gene81: Work on a copy then.
[12:35:15] <andypugh> I don’t see why that would be critical anyway, it only does syntax-highlighting
[12:36:56] <Gene81> andypugh: I might try that. But I'd feel more at home with pyvcp. Its the reltive lack of docs on both that bother me.
[12:37:50] <Gene81> gah relative, fingers can't spell
[12:38:14] <andypugh> There are tons of docs on Gtk. Not that they are over-helpful when using Glade.
[12:39:35] <Gene81> andypugh: what I'd like to do is condense what I have, and the missus says its nose bag time, later & thanks
[12:47:21] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20160615-space-stations-amf-3d-printer-completes-its-first-tool-in-space.html I would have gone with beer bottle opener
[12:49:39] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: http://3dprintingindustry.com/news/amorphous-metals-now-3d-printed-first-time-82555/ should be able to vary the content of the alloy as they print
[12:52:53] <CaptHindsight> http://phys.org/news/2016-06-d-polymer-methane-methanol.html imagine making pants from this to make ethanol!
[13:00:37] <gregcnc> www.ebay.com/itm/121751826270 I wonder if these are real fluke? Even if they are there is no warranty.
[13:01:31] <enleth> this might be slightly offtopic but I remember some discussion on this topic last month or so - anyone here doing spectroscopy and chromatography?
[13:10:11] <archivist> enleth, only as a hobby
[13:11:00] <archivist> it being another thing to measure :)
[13:13:52] <enleth> archivist: I found a relatively cheap Varian GC-MS 3400/Saturn 3 combo, I have no idea what I'm doing and I'm considering an impulse buy for the heck of it
[13:14:31] <CaptHindsight> does anyone still use the RTAI kernel for new installs?
[13:15:25] <archivist> enleth, even better toy, materials analysis
[13:16:24] <archivist> enleth, if it was near me and cheap and I had space....
[13:17:36] <enleth> it's listed for $2200
[13:18:38] <CaptHindsight> $499 or best http://www.ebay.com/itm/Varian-Star-3400-CX-Gas-Chromatograph-with-FID-Built-in-Printer-/301944035304
[13:19:58] <archivist> 4 years ago could have used one quite a lot
[13:22:36] <archivist> or even cheaper http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shimadzu-UV160U-UV-Visible-Recording-Spectrophotometer-UV-160A-/371652586252
[13:23:09] <archivist> so many different analysis methods
[13:24:17] <CaptHindsight> shipping costs more than the unit
[13:24:20] <enleth> that one looks even more ancient, though
[13:24:23] <enleth> and that, too
[13:25:14] <archivist> just have to look for nearest first for a local grab
[13:25:56] <archivist> and decide what you want to analyse
[13:25:59] <cradek> Gene81: libgtksourceview2.0-0 looks like a likely candidate package to fix that warning
[13:28:29] <enleth> well, that $2200 Varian is the cheapest spectrometer/chromatograph I can get locally, no cheap US prices for me here
[13:28:55] <andypugh> gregcnc: Have you seen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDm5BfRrAsg
[13:32:46] <enleth> archivist: I think the use case I'd be most interested in is alloy composition analysis, which, I presume, requires some way of turning the sample into gaseous form for a spectrometer like this one
[13:34:16] <enleth> as I said, I have no idea what I'm doing and this is just one of the things I'd like to play around with just to learn something, I have no commercial use for this whatsoever
[13:35:51] <archivist> enleth, more modern metal analysers use a fluorescent method, can be hand portable
[13:36:58] <archivist> trying to remember that name....
[13:37:13] <enleth> yeah, I've seen those, quite impressive, but most definitely out of even my relatively ample weird shit budget
[13:37:20] <archivist> :)
[13:38:13] * roycroft dreams of having a weird shit budget, ample or otherwise
[13:38:18] <archivist> I got a transmission spectrophotometer, minor repair and it proved a filter was red :)
[13:40:11] <archivist> I have a dead/needs calibration Gretag reflection one
[13:41:27] <enleth> roycroft: my trick for it is working in IT/software engineering, pays well enough to buy used industrial/scientific stuff to play with
[13:42:49] <roycroft> i'm in IT, but i work for a tiny company that doesn't pay well
[13:43:14] <roycroft> i used to have a friend who worked for microsoft
[13:43:19] <roycroft> he was one of their first employees
[13:43:22] <andypugh> If you work in Science you earn enough to buy used IT kit :-)
[13:43:31] <roycroft> he made over 2x as much as his boss
[13:43:59] <roycroft> he did release engineering - i.e. he was the one who mastered the software cds
[13:44:13] <roycroft> he owns a farm up in skagit county, well north of seattle
[13:44:19] <roycroft> his hobby is collecting combines
[13:44:38] <roycroft> last time i was there he had about 30 of them
[13:45:16] <enleth> fun thing is, I've got several friends who work in IT and are in the process of saving up enough money to screw it and become carpenters. they don't know each other. this seems to be a recurring thing.
[13:45:31] <roycroft> people get burned out on IT, that's for sure
[13:45:35] <roycroft> i'm so sick of it
[13:45:42] <roycroft> i've been doing it for 40 years
[13:46:04] <roycroft> with a few breaks to do carpentry, boat building, etc.
[13:46:50] <andypugh> roycroft: I know a couple who have the same habit with fire-engines: http://www.dennisfire.co.uk
[13:47:00] <andypugh> That’s quite a collection for one couple.
[13:48:12] <SpeedEvil> Come the flaming zombie apocalypse, they'll be good.
[13:48:39] <enleth> I'm fine so far after 10 years but I managed to jump straight from freelancing to a senior position at the first corporate job I got, so I dodged all the grunt work
[13:50:04] <CaptHindsight> well just ask any MBA, a sofware dev is s software dev, so why pay an uhmerican when you get 4 Indians or 3 Chinese for the same price?
[13:50:04] <roycroft> that website is loading excruciatingly slowly
[13:50:21] <roycroft> mbas can go intercourse themselves
[13:50:34] <CaptHindsight> management can't tell the difference
[13:51:00] <CaptHindsight> and HR can hardly find where their poop comes out
[13:53:13] <andypugh> Argh! When I have an application that crashes and won’t quit I do _not_ want Debian to automatically re-open it when I restart the machine!
[13:53:33] <CaptHindsight> it's a feature
[13:53:40] <andypugh> (Couldn’t tell what it was in top, in case you are wondering why I didn’t kill it)
[13:54:06] <cradek> I don't know of this feature
[13:54:12] <cradek> are you sure that's a thing?
[13:54:27] <roycroft> sounds like windows to me :)
[13:54:33] <enleth> CaptHindsight: yeah, middle management being full of shit is probably the biggest problem there
[13:55:14] <CaptHindsight> it's fun when Firefox reloads attack websites on restart after killing it
[13:56:13] <enleth> CaptHindsight: OTOH, sorting out the fallout of this exact problem is precisely what I'm getting paid good money for, so I'm glad it happens, in a way
[13:56:57] <CaptHindsight> you figured a way to make a buck off it vs being screwed over by it
[13:56:59] <archivist> I kill pages while firefox is restarting, have to be quick
[13:57:05] <enleth> CaptHindsight: as in, turning big piles of shit code made by contractors who hired contractors who hired contractors into something that works
[13:57:48] <enleth> and is maintainable
[14:00:05] <gregcnc> andypugh, yes i have and that's why I would even consider one of those
[14:00:50] <andypugh> What’s bad about it?
[14:01:27] <andypugh> Objection to a company that can sell at $75 in China but charge $500 in the US?
[14:02:06] <gregcnc> no problem with it as long as it's original, I don't want a knockoff
[14:02:27] <gregcnc> china makes knockoffs of knockoffs
[14:02:30] <andypugh> Did you watch the vid? It is genuine.
[14:03:12] <gregcnc> but how do you know what's in the listing is original?
[14:03:29] <andypugh> Well, you don’t, ’tis true.
[14:03:42] <andypugh> Maybe AvE got lucky
[14:04:02] <gregcnc> i don't know if fluke fakes are common
[14:04:33] <CaptHindsight> enleth: that why I avoid developing software as much as possible, that and all the magic code, lack of docs, inaccurate docs, etc etc
[14:08:38] <roycroft> fluke knockoffs used to be quite common
[14:08:50] <roycroft> so much so that fluke started suing people for using their colors
[14:09:03] <roycroft> trademark infringement
[14:09:14] <skunkworks> if it works - it's a fluke
[14:09:25] <enleth> CaptHindsight: yeah, and it doesn't help that most developers hired by corporations are not the brightest bunch, having no real understanding of low-level stuff
[14:09:26] <CaptHindsight> my Fluke multimeters are all dark grey
[14:09:40] <roycroft> i have a green-grey one
[14:09:48] <roycroft> but my newer ones are yellow and grey
[14:12:06] <archivist> none of my Fluke has any yellow
[14:12:32] <roycroft> yours are old
[14:12:50] <archivist> mebe
[14:13:03] <archivist> 931B RMS Differential Voltmeter
[14:13:12] <enleth> CaptHindsight: what I think helps me cope with it is that I'm actually an embedded/systems developer who just so happens to be doing high-level stuff around Java and the likes, so when stuff breaks in ways that leave the Java guys completely helpless, I just start poking down below all the abstraction layers and dismantling the black boxes to see what's inside and why they act up
[14:14:45] <archivist> most of the modern code jockeys expect one liners, no concept of assembler
[14:14:50] <CaptHindsight> https://boingboing.net/2016/06/15/intel-x86-processors-ship-with.html not new, but a new story
[14:15:16] <enleth> CaptHindsight: the look on their faces when you tell them to look up whatever they're having problems with in the JVM source code or even just the standard library code, it's priceless
[14:15:41] <enleth> "there IS a source code for this!?"
[14:15:44] <CaptHindsight> but but but they are software engineers
[14:15:49] <archivist> pfft
[14:16:23] <CaptHindsight> a degree is a degree, just like a MBA :)
[14:18:47] <enleth> CaptHindsight: ah, ME, yes, it's bad.
[14:20:22] <gregcnc> hmmm https://www.amazon.com/FLUKE-362-True-rms-Clamp-Meter/dp/B00L7KZYSA/
[14:23:58] <Gene81> andypugh: Back from lunch, any accumulted wisdom?
[14:29:22] <andypugh> Gene81: None at all.
[14:35:28] <Gene81> Thats what I was afraid of, thanbks Andy
[14:36:38] <Gene81> nother silly Q though, do we have an exerciser for pyvcp stuff so we don't have to load the whole maryann?
[14:37:10] <enleth> archivist: so I found the user manual for MS 3400 chromatograph and it seems to be mostly intended for organic compound analysis and accepts samples in a liquid form in a solvent - if I understand the manual correctly
[14:37:42] <enleth> so far I can't find a manual for the Saturn 3 spectrometer
[14:48:16] <andypugh> Gene81: I am not sure what you are asking.
[14:54:53] <miss0r> hello people. Friday, I will go pick up a lathe, I got for 100 bucks. its a zelenda ZN 150. Do you guys know of this lathe/brand of lathe?
[14:58:34] <Gene81> andypugh: start/stop times of lcnc waste a lot of time. It would be nice if we had a standalone xml previewer'
[14:59:29] <andypugh> Gene81: halrun / loadusr -W pyvcp….
[14:59:57] <andypugh> Actually, maybe not…
[15:01:04] <skunkworks> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gui/pyvcp.html#_stand_alone
[15:01:14] <skunkworks> The minimum command to load a pyvcp panel is:
[15:01:20] <skunkworks> loadusr pyvcp mypanel.xml
[15:03:01] <andypugh> Yes, from a halrun prompt
[15:04:24] <skunkworks> yes - that works here
[15:04:39] <skunkworks> (loading the lathe.xml from example config
[15:05:04] <andypugh> Or, with linuxcnc running, you can use halcmd loadusr…. then close the pyvcp window, then try again
[15:05:57] <andypugh> miss0r: No mention here: http://www.lathes.co.uk
[15:06:17] <miss0r> andypugh: Only the brand is listed in the huge list in the bottom
[15:07:39] <andypugh> miss0r: Looks like $100 is a bargain: http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-612592094-torno-marca-zelenda-checoslovaco-_JM
[15:08:11] <miss0r> andypugh: That can't be american dollars
[15:08:59] <_methods> sounds like a great magician name though
[15:09:03] <_methods> the amazing zalenda
[15:09:31] <andypugh> miss0r: 69,000.00 ARS = 5,022.06 USD
[15:09:55] <miss0r> _methods: I hope it is. 'cause thats what it'll take to make me good with a lathe :)
[15:10:00] <miss0r> andypugh: I'd
[15:10:07] <_methods> hahah
[15:10:08] <miss0r> say its a bargin then
[15:10:19] <andypugh> Looks like a nice lathe
[15:10:52] <miss0r> And I tested the lathe out - everything works. all the feeds'n stuff. it just needs a good cleaning and lubricating. perhaps a lick of paint
[15:11:44] <miss0r> At the moment I am making some room for it in the shop. this is where my magician skills come in handy. everyone told me it could not be done. but I think it can. :)
[15:12:24] <miss0r> also, I need to figure out buying a matching 4-jaw for this lathe
[15:14:19] <enleth> same problem here with the ORAC
[15:15:23] <enleth> they changed the Emco spindle nose for some reason, so the only way might be to make an adapter plate
[15:16:01] <miss0r> *sigh* that is just stupid
[15:16:01] <andypugh> miss0r: Is it a DIN-Mount? 3 holes with bolts through keyholes?
[15:16:38] <miss0r> andypugh: I didn't check that out while I scrutinized it. That will have to wait to when I have it in the shop
[15:16:49] <miss0r> enleth - it looks like a nice little cnc lathe?
[15:17:22] <enleth> miss0r: yeah, it's basically an Emco Model 8 professionally converted to CNC and fitted with an extremely weird training control
[15:17:46] <miss0r> enleth: Does it do a good job?
[15:18:13] <enleth> well, I got it yesterday and I'm still not done with getting it up and running
[15:18:31] <enleth> the control works, stepper drives and steppers work
[15:18:48] <enleth> but the VFD appears dead, haven't really checked it yet though
[15:18:49] <miss0r> well, congrats ! :)
[15:19:09] <miss0r> if its been sitting for a while, theres a good chance the caps are dead
[15:19:14] <enleth> worst case, it's a pretty standard VFD, 0-10V for speed, TTL start/stop
[15:19:25] <enleth> so I can swap it for a modern one in a matter of minutes
[15:19:32] <miss0r> I guess... but soldering in new caps is also fun :)
[15:19:36] <enleth> everything else is fine
[15:19:59] <enleth> but the control - it's really the clunkiest machine control I've ever used
[15:20:22] <enleth> sure, it was only meant for training purposes and literally nothing else, but it's still absolutely insufferable
[15:20:36] <miss0r> i'm glad the VFD in my cnc worked when I got it. that is everything but standard. it runs some funky old modification of rs-485, combined with 4-20mA signaling
[15:21:05] <miss0r> enleth: Are you thinking of converting it to linux cnc? or use it as-is?
[15:21:23] <enleth> definitely convert, this control makes it unusable
[15:21:42] <andypugh> looks like a screw-on chuck, actually. And it has those fabcy 1960s V-ways with unequal angles. https://img15.rajce.idnes.cz/d1502/12/12326/12326223_e1d539db537b375a2a403f4e88864ea9/images/IMAG0342.jpg
[15:22:05] <enleth> if it was like the TNC131 on my mill, I'd keep it for some time - the TNC may be old but it's perfectly usable so I'm not in a hurry to replace it with a 7i77
[15:22:16] <enleth> but this lathe has to be converted to be useful
[15:22:31] <andypugh> Hmm, that picture is branded TOS
[15:23:03] <miss0r> andypugh: Looks like the machine thou. is that something that is possible to get a 4-jaw chuck for?
[15:23:23] <miss0r> enleth: my mill runs the philips 432 - that is pretty good, even by modern standards
[15:23:45] <andypugh> You might need to make a backplate. You can buy blanks, then you need to bore and thread them. Using your lathe. :-)
[15:24:08] <enleth> miss0r: TNC131 is late 70s technology, but Heidenhain really made the most out of it
[15:24:11] <andypugh> Once you measure the spindle thread you might get lucky.
[15:24:32] <robin_sz> or you could just buy a Colchester Student .. or a Harrison ...
[15:24:52] <miss0r> andypugh: Well, I just uninstalled my "trusty" old RunMaster 9x20 lathe... so even if I can't get a screw on 4-jaw, its very much moving in the right direction
[15:25:09] <miss0r> robin_sz: What that directed at me?
[15:25:24] <andypugh> robin_sz: Not for $100
[15:25:38] <robin_sz> oh, for $100 thats different :)
[15:25:48] <robin_sz> never turn down ANYTHING for $100
[15:25:50] <miss0r> enleth: Can you feed it g-code from any cam software?
[15:26:13] <enleth> oh, and about the backplate for my lathe - to add insult to injury, the carriage doesn't go all the way up to the headstock on ORAC. They never intended it to be used with anything else than the factory fitted 3-jaw, so the spindle motor and X stepper cover would collide over the last 60mm or so
[15:26:23] <miss0r> robin_sz: Yeah, I was once offered a kick in the groin for $100. Let me just say, next time i'll pass on such a great deal
[15:26:28] <enleth> so unless I move the spindle motor out of the way, I can't machine a new faceplate
[15:26:56] <miss0r> enleth: ->meh<-
[15:27:16] <enleth> miss0r: it's an MDI control so it uses a custom language, but it's pretty easy to generate from gcode
[15:27:17] <gregcnc> enleth does it have any chuck at all?
[15:27:23] <robin_sz> miss0r, was it from a leggy blonde wearign little more than the whip in her hand?
[15:27:32] <enleth> gregcnc: yeah, it came with a 3-jaw
[15:28:25] <gregcnc> should cover most work. clean it and true the jaws before giving up on it
[15:28:45] <miss0r> robin_sz: basically.. that is: if you replace 'leggy blonde' with '6"7' muscular unshaven transvestite', then yeah
[15:28:53] <enleth> worst case, I can unscrew the adapter plate from that chuck and just have another one made somewhere
[15:29:10] <miss0r> enleth: I will gladly mill it for you ;)
[15:29:19] <robin_sz> miss0r, don't pay more the $50 for that then ...
[15:29:46] <miss0r> robin_sz: Yeah, i'll know next time. but money aside: all'n all a good experience.
[15:29:55] <robin_sz> lol
[15:30:01] <robin_sz> anyway .. back to lathes ...
[15:30:23] <miss0r> yeah :) I'm happy about the deal I got. $100 and picking it up myself.
[15:30:39] <robin_sz> is it chinese?
[15:30:53] <miss0r> its from somewhere in the slavic area
[15:31:00] <andypugh> robin_sz: Czech
[15:31:02] <robin_sz> could be decent enough
[15:31:16] <andypugh> Looks it. Seems like a branch of TOS
[15:31:24] <miss0r> it could be. the seller even installed new head bearings 5 years ago.
[15:31:30] <robin_sz> sweet deal
[15:31:33] <andypugh> TOS made lovelu Deckel clones
[15:31:40] <enleth> oh, one fun thing about the ORAC is that the actual lathe sits on top of the sheet metal control enclosure and there are no supports directly under the bed posts
[15:31:49] <miss0r> I have a TOS fnk 25A mill - that is a stable beast
[15:31:50] <enleth> all the weight is held by the sides of the enclosure
[15:31:53] <robin_sz> I keep meaning to pull the spindle bearings on the colchester ... theres a low speed rumble ..
[15:31:55] <enleth> front and back are just covers
[15:32:05] <robin_sz> not sure if it is box or bead bearings
[15:32:10] <miss0r> enleth: So coolant is out of the question? :)
[15:32:13] <andypugh> enleth: Just shows that stuff doesn’t have to be Chinese to be rubbish.
[15:32:22] <andypugh> Nothing good ever came out of Brighouse.
[15:32:30] <Sync> yeah
[15:32:33] <Sync> the things suck
[15:32:34] <andypugh> Except maybe Wilf Lunn
[15:32:40] <robin_sz> whom?
[15:32:45] <enleth> andypugh: to be honest, it's extremely rigid, some seriously thick sheet metal
[15:32:55] <gregcnc> it was intended to make one part per student per class
[15:33:07] <enleth> but that indeed means no coolant without some modification
[15:33:09] <miss0r> enleth: sheet supports - nomatter the thickness will never be perfect
[15:33:14] <andypugh> robin_sz: You remember Wilf Lunn, surely? Wierd inventions on “Vision On”
[15:33:42] <robin_sz> gregcnc, one part, perstudent, per class .. out of soft plastic
[15:34:06] <enleth> gregcnc: and it looks as if it wasn't ever used for anything more, so mechanically it's like ne
[15:34:09] <enleth> *new
[15:34:14] <robin_sz> andypugh, nope .. I just remember tony hart draing stuff ...
[15:34:31] <andypugh> You can buy his autobigraphy if you want: https://www.amazon.co.uk/My-Best-Cellar-Autobiography-Eleven/dp/0955615518
[15:34:33] <Sync> hm, strange I set all the homing velocities to 0 and the machine still moves when I hit home all
[15:34:54] <miss0r> enleth: Do you have a picture of your mill?
[15:34:59] <andypugh> It’s a lot like mine, I grew up in the same street 20 years later, and all the same shops and things were there.
[15:35:00] <miss0r> s/mill/laathe
[15:35:04] <gregcnc> yes most likely, though in the class i was in the spectra light sherline based lathe actually cut aluminum
[15:35:27] <enleth> miss0r: lathe - no, not yet
[15:35:30] <enleth> mill - yeah
[15:35:41] <miss0r> what mill do you have?
[15:36:12] <gregcnc> we broke an endmill in the mill and the teacher just about lost his mind. but he's wasn't quite all there
[15:36:16] <enleth> Bridgeport Series 1 MDI, one of those "proper" CNC Bridgeports
[15:37:13] <miss0r> enleth: With original controller or converted?
[15:38:25] <robin_sz> andypugh, in other news I got bot the GSXR and 900SS running and mot'd
[15:38:36] <andypugh> I think I was the only kid ever allowed to use the lathe in our school workshop
[15:38:49] <enleth> miss0r: original so far. if it was a BOSS machine, I'd have converted it by now I guess, those BOSS controls are crap, but luckily they chose Heidenhain for this model
[15:38:50] <andypugh> Excellent. Cadwell?
[15:38:57] <miss0r> enleth: Arent thoes only equiped with a 2hp motor?
[15:38:58] <robin_sz> andypugh, tool old and slow
[15:39:12] <andypugh> Have you seen Ixies ride recently?
[15:39:18] <robin_sz> hmm
[15:39:27] <enleth> miss0r: yeah, so what? It's fine for this size, there's a backgear for high torque work
[15:39:38] <robin_sz> Ronketti has been fettling a TZR ...
[15:39:52] <gregcnc> i signed up for metal working class in highschool and they told me i was the only one
[15:40:07] <miss0r> enleth: Heh, no offence ment ;) I moved to a 14hp cnc mill from a 1,5hp. the 1.5hp was quite too small. I had problems doing what I wanted
[15:40:17] <andypugh> Ronketti is planning to ride the TZR there and send the ZXR in a van. Seems optimistic.
[15:40:51] <miss0r> enleth: But now I lack spindle rpm, as I can only do 4500rpm
[15:40:51] <robin_sz> andypugh, and the GSXR has a hole in the powerband the size of a small village at 8500 ... Curtin said it was basically there from new
[15:40:59] <enleth> miss0r: well, that's what I have, no plans to get anything bigger for any forseeable future, it's just a hobby for me
[15:41:16] <robin_sz> the Ducati is way easier to ride
[15:41:21] <enleth> miss0r: still, it's a nice chunk of iron
[15:41:53] <miss0r> enleth: Same for me - althou I am trying to build this into a small company - who knows, one day I might be living doing only this
[15:42:12] <andypugh> robin_sz: I guaratee you are faster than, for example, Chris Paine
[15:42:25] <robin_sz> there, you have a point.
[15:42:28] <andypugh> 5 spaces left…
[15:42:35] <robin_sz> date again?
[15:42:47] <miss0r> enleth: My cnc is not a new one by any standards either. I think it is from '86.
[15:43:27] <andypugh> robin_sz: Full details and booking link: http://www.cadwell.ruffle.me.uk
[15:43:42] <miss0r> I wonder if it is possible to get an after market 'overdrive' or something simular for my cnc. to double the rpm. that would work wonders
[15:44:17] <enleth> oh, and thanks to how X axis drive works in the Bridgeport, with a stationary ball screw and a rotating nut, I figured out how to fit a proper Z handwheel to ORAC even though it's got ballscrews. I need to change the bracket that mounts ball nut to the apron for a lockable rotating sleeve geared to a handwheel
[15:44:31] <enleth> so with the sleeve locked, the screw will move the carriage
[15:44:44] <enleth> with the sleeve unlocked and the screw locked, the handwheel will
[15:44:45] <andypugh> miss0r: For a milling machine? Look for “spindle speeder"
[15:45:18] <miss0r> enleth: I might be asking a dumb question here - why would you want that?
[15:45:30] <enleth> miss0r: for the heck of it mostly
[15:46:07] <miss0r> I hear'ya :) that is the motivation behind most of what I do in here :)
[15:46:17] <enleth> miss0r: the bridgeport has mechanical handwheels even though it's CNC and I like it, so I figured I'd like a lathe to have the same feature
[15:46:57] <enleth> miss0r: it can be done properly if you use axis brakes, clutches and so on
[15:47:16] <miss0r> enleth: True. Speaking with some experience with small lathes - I'm not sure it is worth it - I can understand the bridgeport - that is still a good manual mill. rigid'n stuff
[15:48:01] <robin_sz> andypugh, yep, and it seems I still have full admin privs :)
[15:48:03] <miss0r> andypugh: That looks realy interresting :)
[15:49:26] <enleth> miss0r: well, I was *really* lucky to get a machine that was designed from ground up as a CNC with manual work capability
[15:49:49] <andypugh> miss0r: I have a design for one (CAD model) that uses friction drive and ball bearings rather than gears. I keep meaning to make it. But haven’t.
[15:50:06] <enleth> miss0r: most "combo" machines are a retrofit of some kind, usually a manual with motors slapped on, rarely a CNC with handwheels slapped on
[15:50:08] <miss0r> enleth: I must admit missing the manual feature on my cnc.
[15:50:17] <andypugh> I get the idea from a supercharger
[15:50:34] <enleth> miss0r: neither works well and the latter has a potential to be very unsafe for the operator
[15:50:40] <miss0r> andypugh: I found this: it is somewhat expensive, but it is exactly what I need :D http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NIKKEN-BT45-NX5-HIGH-SPEED-SPINDLE-SPEEDER-HEAD-/141999681374?hash=item210fd72f5e:g:kpUAAOSwnDZUIOQI
[15:51:08] <andypugh> Set up a search and wait?
[15:51:10] <enleth> miss0r: so I'm happy I got a proper CNC machine with well-fitted and safe handwheels
[15:51:14] <miss0r> enleth: Yeah, one needs to keep his hands to himself :)
[15:51:21] <enleth> miss0r: they
[15:51:22] <gregcnc> yeah those speeders aren't cheap
[15:51:23] <enleth> damn
[15:51:36] <enleth> miss0r: they're disengaged for CNC work and engaging any handwheel actually cuts servo power
[15:51:43] <miss0r> also, I have an ISO-40 mount...
[15:51:55] <enleth> miss0r: so solenoid-operated brakes are used to prevent backfeed
[15:51:57] <miss0r> enleth: Now that is properly build
[15:52:33] <enleth> miss0r: the brakes are opened as soon as you engage a handwheel on the respective axis and closed when you disengage it
[15:53:02] <miss0r> Yeah, you don't see that on a retrofitted cnc
[15:53:18] <enleth> absolutely invaluable for quick fixups in the middle of the job
[15:53:40] <andypugh> My retrofit is part-manual. But in manual mode you turn the screw not the nut (on X and Z).
[15:54:17] <enleth> just hit pause, snap the handwheels in, do what needs to be done, restart the program
[15:54:24] <andypugh> The Y axis needs you to plug in a handle for manual. That has the possibility of being dangerous, I admit.
[15:55:11] <enleth> interestingly, the "nutbuster" handle on Y handwheel is still folding on mine
[15:55:54] <cradek> I've encountered a (huge) knee mill that had a motorized knee, and had a switch that would disable the motor when the leg-breaking handle is in place
[15:56:16] <enleth> but it doesn't have to be, no nasty surprises possible for someone leaning over it
[15:56:42] <miss0r> I just had a small heartattack. apparently my cat got into a fight with another cap on the roof of my shop.
[15:57:01] <andypugh> Did it win?
[15:57:20] <enleth> andypugh: interesting, so you lock the nut drive for manual operation?
[15:57:49] <miss0r> andypugh: No idea. it usualy doesn't. shes a pretty small cat.
[15:58:13] <enleth> andypugh: that's basically what I'd like to do with the lathe, just roles reversed, nice to know this approach is used somewhere
[15:59:57] <andypugh> enleth: Yes
[16:01:11] <andypugh> I realised that I actually never use the manual controls on the lathe, so didn’t bother with a manual on the Holbrook. But I did put a pair of jogwheels on the apron for a similar way to work.
[16:01:22] <andypugh> enleth: Did you see that arrangement?
[16:01:40] <enleth> yeah
[16:02:00] <andypugh> I like it for parting. Don’t trust CNC for parting
[16:02:30] <enleth> and I plan to hack jogwheels onto the original ORAC control to make it at least marginally useful for something before I replace it
[16:02:37] <enleth> it's got a "manual" pushbutton mode
[16:02:49] <enleth> with selectable feeds - fast, slow and step feed
[16:02:58] <XXCoder> andypugh curious why?
[16:03:11] <enleth> step feed does exactly what it says on the tin - moves a motor one step ahead on a button press
[16:03:15] <enleth> but it's a membrane keyboard
[16:03:32] <Sync> andypugh: is there something different in JA with regard to homing? seeing that you poked around in there
[16:03:32] <gregcnc> cnc parting occurs maybe millions of times daily?
[16:04:08] <enleth> "fast" is actually fast, "slow" is slow but still completely uncontrollable, it will move by at least 0.5mm even on a very brief press and can't be expected to be repeatable
[16:04:25] <enleth> and "step" is too slow to use, as a single step on either axis is 0.01mm
[16:04:46] <enleth> so I figured I'd hook up two MPGs in parallel with the direction buttons
[16:05:01] <enleth> and just use them with the lathe in "step" mode
[16:05:08] <XXCoder> enleth: linuxcnc do have ability to select step distances from 5 mm to .001mm
[16:05:25] <enleth> XXCoder: yeah, but that requires actually retrofitting first
[16:05:31] <XXCoder> ahh ok
[16:05:45] <enleth> I need a working lathe now though
[16:05:58] <enleth> and that should at least make it usable
[16:07:01] <andypugh> Sync: JA has an option to synch homing moves for Gantries
[16:07:12] <enleth> even better would be an MPG with a pulse count limit
[16:08:18] <andypugh> Yes, CNC parting occurs millions of times a day on machines where they have had lots of parts to get the speed and feed dialled in.
[16:08:55] <enleth> so you could set it to send no more than, say, 350 pulses in a given direction from the current position, thus limiting how far the lathe would travel, then control the feed rate manually with the ability to back off instantly but don't worry about overshooting
[16:08:59] <andypugh> enleth: You could arrange that in HAL using the limit function.
[16:09:16] <enleth> andypugh: of course. again, that would require a retrofit first.
[16:10:09] <cradek> CSS+FPR makes parting work better than on any manual
[16:10:34] <cradek> (but sometimes I use a jeweler's saw)
[16:10:44] <enleth> andypugh: before that happens, two MPGs with pulse counters/limiters might be all it takes to make ORAC usable as a regular lathe
[16:11:01] <XXCoder> just got my alum plates!
[16:11:16] <XXCoder> nicely cut, not messy saw cut
[16:11:17] <miss0r> i'm off for tonight. Have a good one people
[16:15:28] <Sync> andypugh: hmm
[16:15:32] <Sync> that should not affect me
[16:17:37] <andypugh> cradek: I agree that it should.
[16:19:36] <cradek> I sometimes use CSS when doing manual stuff by wheel
[16:19:40] <cradek> it works so much better
[16:19:49] <XXCoder> cascending sheet style ;)
[16:21:27] <chopper79> Hello everybody.... finally off work so now back to trying to get my spindle working. I can activate Fwd and Rev with no issue, but can not control speed at all. I have a 5i25/7i77 setup with a VFD for spindle control. I need to operate VFD by 0-10v method. Any help would be awesome
[16:21:49] <chopper79> config generated with PnCconf
[16:22:13] <chopper79> seems to be missing some stuff, but can not find what.
[16:23:05] <gregcnc> the VFD is configured properly?
[16:23:13] <andypugh> Is the VFD set up for 0-10V control rather than front-panel control?
[16:23:26] <chopper79> From what I did via the manual it should be.
[16:23:52] <andypugh> You are using a 7i77 analogout?
[16:23:55] <enleth> chopper79: did you try to actually give it some voltage from a lab supply or even a battery?
[16:24:07] <andypugh> Does that have a connection to the VFD reference gnd.
[16:24:24] <chopper79> I can not control speed from panel or direction either. Only control direction with LCNC
[16:24:43] <andypugh> What sort of VFD?
[16:24:47] <chopper79> Enleth...yes I did.
[16:24:55] <enleth> and it ran?
[16:25:04] <chopper79> andypugh....not sure what you mean there.
[16:25:13] <chopper79> Yes it did run
[16:25:34] <chopper79> Huanyang
[16:25:40] <andypugh> I was idly musing on the fact that the hy_vfd component and Modbus turned out to be super-easy on my Hyauanyang
[16:27:45] <chopper79> I have tried many things in Hal, but nothing seems to make it work.
[16:28:38] <andypugh> Do you see the voltage at the drive control terminals changing when you change the speed in HAL?
[16:29:14] <andypugh> Have you tried very tiny speed requests, like 0.1 and 0.5? Perhaps you have it scaled to 1rpm spindle speed is 10V output.
[16:30:41] <Sync> meh
[16:30:47] <Sync> can't figure the homing shits out
[16:30:59] <Deejay> gn8
[16:32:36] <chopper79> I have not.... I did just double check the function and with a 6v battery I can make the spindle rotate by using the VFD. This verifies the VFD is setup for external control.
[16:33:03] <chopper79> I can not help but think that something is missing in HAL.
[16:33:25] <chopper79> Here is what HAL has in it
[16:33:28] <chopper79> setp hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout4-scalemax [SPINDLE_9]OUTPUT_SCALE
[16:33:28] <chopper79> setp hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout4-minlim [SPINDLE_9]OUTPUT_MIN_LIMIT
[16:33:28] <chopper79> setp hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout4-maxlim [SPINDLE_9]OUTPUT_MAX_LIMIT
[16:33:29] <chopper79> net spindle-vel-rpm-abs => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout4
[16:33:29] <chopper79> net machine-is-enabled => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.spinena
[16:33:32] <chopper79> sorry
[16:34:05] <chopper79> Here is INI
[16:34:06] <chopper79> OUTPUT_SCALE = 2000.0
[16:34:07] <chopper79> OUTPUT_MIN_LIMIT = 0.0
[16:34:07] <chopper79> OUTPUT_MAX_LIMIT = 2000.0
[16:35:40] <andypugh> Hmm, I can never remember how scalemax and friends work.
[16:35:55] <andypugh> (which is embarassing, as I named them and coded them)
[16:37:04] <chopper79> lol... I understand
[16:37:06] <PCW_> analogout4 is wrong, it should be analogout5
[16:37:26] <andypugh> As an aside, who decided that [SPINDLE_9] was sensible? What was wrong with [SPINDLE_0] ? That would make multi-spindle a bt more logical if it ever happens.
[16:38:42] <PCW_> analog channels 0..4 are axis channels (with a common enable) analog channel 5 is the spindle channel (with a separate enable)
[16:38:56] <chopper79> I tried analogout5 also and no change
[16:39:12] <PCW_> this is not something you try
[16:39:26] <andypugh> Can you make a variable voltage appear on the analogouts?
[16:40:31] <andypugh> How have you wired to the speed inputs on the VFD?
[16:40:56] <chopper79> i can not just change the output in hal to analogout5 and then move my wiring to output5?
[16:41:32] <chopper79> I wire the VI and ACM
[16:41:48] <PCW_> are you saying pncconf connected a 7I77 spindle control to analog4?
[16:41:54] <chopper79> Yes
[16:42:12] <PCW_> if so, thats a pncconf bug
[16:42:43] <chopper79> So I attempted to change it to analog5 in hal , but it made no difference.
[16:43:30] <chopper79> I noticed that my limits were the same way also. Set them to a certain axis and the hal showed them connected to pins and axis I never set.
[16:43:36] <chopper79> I have that fixed so now its just down to spindle
[16:44:00] <andypugh> I wish PnCConf was perfect.
[16:44:16] <chopper79> Its an awesome platform though
[16:44:16] <andypugh> Or at least less fatally-flawed
[16:45:15] <PCW_> OK that not a pncconf bug it up to the user so select the "PWM" channel for the spindle
[16:45:50] <PCW_> so when you run pncconf you need to select channel 5 for the spindle "PWM"
[16:47:06] <chopper79> Let me run it again...one sec.
[16:47:25] <andypugh> I get spammed by Digital Machinist every now and again. Imagine my surprise to see a Top Tip with my name on it on todays email. I do vaguely remember sending it in some months ago.
[16:48:27] <jdh> I used to get that, but their 'along the g-code way' column offends me.
[16:49:13] <PCW_> AFAICR some versions of pncconf have a bug with some missing spindle connections
[16:49:15] <PCW_> (the version you have also connects the spindle enable incorrectly: it should NOT be machine-on)
[16:52:54] <andypugh> Spindle runs full-speed rather than not at all though?
[16:53:24] <chopper79> reran PnC and nothing changed. It did set analogout5 this time. Nothing runs though.
[16:53:35] <chopper79> net spindle-vel-cmd-abs => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout5
[16:53:35] <chopper79> net machine-is-enabled => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.spinena
[16:53:57] <PCW_> that last line is wrong and dangerous
[16:55:10] <chopper79> What would you recommend it be?
[16:55:32] * Loetmichel just got his new 7" tablet for the nightstand today. NIIIICE... very well capapble of surfing, as an alarm clock and as a kindle reader... ( the old one there had only 512 mb ram and had run out of ram repeatedly the last few weeks, a few dozen books in the reader seem to be a bit much for it...) -> http://www.ebay.de/itm/151826593826 I am surprised how the chinese can build that for
[16:55:32] * Loetmichel THAT price and still earn some money. The display isnt half bad! and even the (now taped off) 2mpix cam is useable.
[16:55:34] <PCW_> motion.spindle-on
[16:56:42] <chopper79> replace spinena
[16:56:43] <chopper79> ?
[16:57:12] <PCW_> and i think you will find that the first line is a one node net (nothing else connects to spindle-vel-cmd-abs )
[16:57:49] <PCW_> net motion.spindle-on => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.spinena
[16:58:09] <chopper79> .hal:258: Signal name 'motion.spindle-on' must not be the same as a pin. Did you omit the signal name?
[16:58:19] <chopper79> this is the error I get
[16:59:15] <PCW_> right net spindle-on motion.spindle.on => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.spinena
[17:00:18] <chopper79> .hal:258: Pin 'motion.spindle.on' does not exist
[17:00:18] <chopper79> 12823
[17:00:37] <PCW_> sorry motion.spindle-on
[17:00:44] <PCW_> man motion
[17:01:42] <chopper79> No change...
[17:02:04] <PCW_> I would not expect any
[17:02:54] <PCW_> can you post your hal file somewhere?
[17:02:55] <PCW_>
[17:03:05] <chopper79> one second please
[17:05:24] <chopper79> http://pastebin.com/raw/AzkLDUdt
[17:07:24] <chopper79> Here is the .ini
[17:07:24] <chopper79> http://pastebin.com/raw/BB8aL5tF
[17:08:30] <PCW_> change
[17:08:32] <PCW_> net spindle-vel-cmd-abs => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout5
[17:08:33] <PCW_> to
[17:08:35] <PCW_> net spindle-vel-cmd-rpm-abs => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout5
[17:09:17] <PCW_> thats the one node net I mentioned before
[17:10:20] <PCW_> I think dgarr has a clever tool to find these (one node nets = unconnected pins)
[17:13:16] <chopper79> holy cow the spindle is alive. Now to just scale it right and then figure out how far I can push a 4 pole induction motor.
[17:13:37] <chopper79> You all are the best.
[17:13:52] <Sync> as far as the torque will take it
[17:14:00] <Sync> or until the rotor flies apart
[17:15:00] <chopper79> haha...dont tell me that. ;
[17:15:11] <gregcnc> find a spec sheet for the motor if it's fairly recent
[17:16:14] <chopper79> Tag on the side says 4pole 230v/460 60hz 1750rpm.
[17:16:32] <chopper79> 1994 motor
[17:16:43] <gregcnc> so does my motor, but the spec sheet says 6kRPM max
[17:18:09] <chopper79> Let me do some checking as I know it has bearings in it that will hold up to 6k no [problem.
[17:18:44] <gregcnc> bearings are not the issue, it's structural integrity of the rotor
[17:29:44] <chopper79> I know that... I can not find a spec sheet for it anywhere. The mill it was on had RPM of about 5k.
[17:30:33] <chopper79> They had it running 230v on a yaskawa vfd 3ph Not sure what freq they were using as I had no way to power up the 3ph vfd
[17:31:11] <gregcnc> how fast are you thinking of going?
[17:37:17] <chopper79> Mainly milling alum so I would love to see 4-5k min.
[17:39:29] <Sync> just crank it up until she blows
[17:42:22] <chopper79> The VFD did not like that...haha
[17:45:45] <chopper79> Spooled up 5k on the VFD. No smoke so I will let her run for a bit and see what happens heat wise.
[17:58:10] <chopper79> Is there anyway to set the spindle adjustments in smaller increments instead of just 100rpm increments?
[18:21:56] <JT-Shop> seems i saw something about this on the forum
[18:22:30] <andypugh> chopper79: https://sourceforge.net/p/emc/mailman/message/25033623/
[18:23:18] * malcom2073 reads "NML".... " *twitch.... twitch*
[18:24:44] <chopper79> Thank you
[18:25:59] <andypugh> malcom2073: Having spent too much time tracing data from G-code through NML to HAL to motors I still have no idea at all what the point of NML is.
[18:26:58] <malcom2073> andypugh: We use NML at work in RCS, it makes a LOT more sense in realtime adaptive robotics than in machine control such as this
[18:27:33] <malcom2073> I blame NIST. When you have a hammer (NML), everything looks like a nail
[18:27:56] <andypugh> Indded. You know NIST wrote EMC2?
[18:28:15] <malcom2073> I work with some of the guys that worked at NIST and helped develop RCS/NML Stuff
[18:28:29] <andypugh> Shackleford?
[18:30:44] <andypugh> I think the NML layer was intended to allow separation of UI and realtime machines, but it doesn’t really seem to have ever been used that way.
[18:32:14] <andypugh> And, in fact, Machinekit, which has painted itself into the corner of separating the UI and realtime by choosing the inadequate BeagleBone have replaced NML with something else. (as far as I know, I stopped following that project)
[19:50:22] <cradek> archivist: with pegwood method it sure looks like 64tpi (0.40mm matches well)
[19:50:50] <cradek> so I'll trade someone these crazy 12-28 and #4-48 LH taps for #0-64
[19:52:58] <andypugh> #0-64 LH?
[19:53:15] <andypugh> Make your own tap?
[19:53:38] <andypugh> Any CNC has a releiving lathe inside just begging to come out to play.
[19:53:49] <cradek> well actually, ideally I'd have a die
[19:54:11] <cradek> I doubt it exists (I haven't looked, can't find my MH)
[19:54:53] <andypugh> I have my MH in my hand. Where should I look?
[19:55:15] <cradek> the UNC/UNF tables
[19:55:18] <andypugh> (12th edition, 1943)
[19:55:22] <cradek> see what #0 has other than -80
[19:55:32] <Tom_itx> http://www.toolsavings.com/templates/product.aspx?ProductGuid=2360130&GroupGuid=167867
[19:55:35] <Tom_itx> RH
[19:56:03] <cradek> oh I found it! it was under the thing.
[19:56:26] <cradek> awesome, it exists for only $89! :-)
[19:56:33] <enleth> I'm so happy I don't have to deal with any threads other than metric.
[19:56:36] <Tom_itx> http://www.victornet.com/subdepartments/Left-Hand-Taps-Inch-Sizes/1300.html
[19:56:47] <Tom_itx> 0-80
[19:56:56] <Tom_itx> 1-64
[19:57:04] <cradek> looks like 1-64 is UNC
[19:57:38] <cradek> 0-64 isn't in MH28
[19:58:21] <andypugh> MH12 only has 0-80
[19:58:58] <cradek> thanks
[19:59:08] <cradek> sounds like I need a cnc lathe
[19:59:18] <cradek> fortunately I have one here that's only in about 3 parts
[19:59:20] <andypugh> cradek: What’s the OD?
[19:59:35] <Tom_itx> just jbweld em back together
[19:59:36] <cradek> .059ish
[20:00:44] <andypugh> http://www.bodgesoc.org/thread_pitch_dia.html
[20:01:01] <andypugh> No good match (that’s sorte by TPI)
[20:01:21] <andypugh> is 15 Progress possible?
[20:02:15] <cradek> I don't understand
[20:02:57] <cradek> I'll just have to make some out of drill rod, no big deal, I'm just lazy
[20:03:03] <andypugh> I presented a thread table, the closest match to your 64 tpi and 0.059 OD was 15 Progress
[20:03:33] <andypugh> A thread standard (I believe) of the Progress Watch Company
[20:03:51] <cradek> oh I didn't recognize that as a thread :-)
[20:04:34] <cradek> I bet that would be totally fine...
[20:05:25] <andypugh> Not as fine a #0-80
[20:05:54] <cradek> yeah it's tempting to see if 0-80 goes in there and holds
[20:06:14] <cradek> but I'll try making an appropriate screw first
[20:06:42] <andypugh> 80 and 64 will be very wrong withing less than 1 turn, I think.
[20:06:51] <andypugh> Unless you intend to self-tap it.
[20:07:05] <cradek> yeah, it's soft...
[20:07:32] <andypugh> I missed what it is?
[20:07:43] <cradek> coin silver glasses frames
[20:09:00] <andypugh> Right, well, just wind in anything the right diameter :-)
[20:09:18] <cradek> the stuck old screw is almost gone, needs both new screws and hinge pins
[20:09:22] <cradek> heh yeah
[20:09:32] <cradek> except it doesn't feel much like a restoration that way
[20:10:52] <andypugh> Making tiny screws is fun.
[20:11:21] <andypugh> And you can get away with more overhang than looks right. I don’t know why.
[20:11:25] <cradek> yeah, and these are a lot bigger than the last ones I did, so I know I can easily do it
[20:27:16] <Frank_11> hi
[20:28:40] <andypugh> Hi Frank_11
[20:29:17] <andypugh> You missed an earlier discussion of the value of Argentian currency
[20:30:09] <Frank_11> lol
[20:30:26] <Frank_11> happy that i missed it!
[20:30:34] <Frank_11> quite a disaster
[20:31:20] <andypugh> miss0r has just bought one of these http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-612592094-torno-marca-zelenda-checoslovaco-_JM for $100 and we were wondering what the exchange rate was.
[20:31:43] <Frank_11> where is he from!?
[20:31:44] <Frank_11> wired
[20:32:00] <Frank_11> thats like 10km from my house
[20:32:10] <andypugh> In the US, that’s just a picture of the lathe that I found on Google.
[20:32:44] <andypugh> OK, that is mildy wierd.
[20:33:02] <andypugh> But bear in mind that you don’t notice non-coincidences.
[20:33:55] <Frank_11> that lathe would be 6400 dollars
[20:34:01] <Frank_11> without export rates
[20:34:28] <Frank_11> haha totally
[20:35:14] <Frank_11> he can tell me later how good it is, i want to make a rebuild project maybe next year
[20:41:38] <andypugh> Yeah, $100 for one of them is a bargain anywhere.
[20:42:00] <andypugh> They made decent lathes in Czechoslovakia
[20:51:40] <enleth> actually $100 for anything made of cast iron and of that size is a bargain
[22:25:45] <Polymorphism> 100 dollars?
[22:25:46] <Polymorphism> lol
[23:32:09] <Polymorphism> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1L15xehfEA
[23:37:02] <chopper79> Pin 'hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.enc0' does not exist with setting sserial_port_0=300xxxxxx What might I be missing here?
[23:37:10] <chopper79> Trying to get my MPg to work
[23:38:03] <chopper79> Phase A -> pin 16 Phase B -> pin 17 and my 5v supply ground is tied to field ground.
[23:43:33] <chopper79> Never mind.... I see it in HAL Meter and also HAL Configuration. When I try to use it in my MPG HAL file I get an error that it does not exist. I did verify that the counts are working fine in HAL Meter and HAL configuration also.
[23:48:03] <chopper79> Found my issue.... I changed hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.enc0 to hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.enc0.counts. Works now
[23:49:27] <mikeh> has mesa started shipping/responding to customers yet? i've been away on a three month vacation and haven't been following it much...
[23:49:45] <mikeh> i was about the order a card before i left but got scared away by some reports...
[23:50:43] <chopper79> I have had zero issues with Mesa service or anything. I would recommend them to anybody. I also use only their cards on my retrofits and hope on my product soon.
[23:56:42] <mikeh> have you had to contact them in the last year or so?