#linuxcnc | Logs for 2016-06-06

[00:23:32] <pink_vampire> hi
[00:24:07] <XXCoder> hey
[01:11:06] <Crom> ack they fell off again
[01:11:43] <XXCoder> you need to go see doctor about that
[02:37:28] <pink_vampire> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJRWr7-pfiQ
[02:38:34] <Deejay> moin
[02:43:39] <maxcnc> good morning from a sunny germany
[02:43:47] <maxcnc> after a week of rain
[02:44:07] <maxcnc> have a nice working day where ever you are
[02:44:24] <maxcnc> what ever you cnc
[02:44:34] <maxcnc> <- SMILE
[02:45:28] <XXCoder> thus ends max's blog of day
[02:45:59] * archivist giggles
[02:48:37] <XXCoder> https://youtu.be/lLesoJYmJPY
[02:48:41] <XXCoder> weird.
[02:50:48] <pink_vampire> XXCoder: music + cnc + dance
[02:52:43] <XXCoder> there was a cnc in that music video? didnt see it, but then I just skipped the 1:20 long video. long.
[02:54:44] <pink_vampire> how do you enjoy music?
[02:54:50] <XXCoder> I dont
[02:55:26] <XXCoder> there is deaf that enjoy music, they usually have reseual hearing left, like 2% hearing left. I'm actually one of fairly rare 100% deaf
[02:56:00] <root-x> The best music is the sound of my steppers
[02:56:23] <root-x> running slowli
[02:57:49] <pink_vampire> I did a digitizing for about 2 hour, and without the stacklight you can't really know if the machine is active,
[02:58:16] <pink_vampire> super quite, slow movement.
[02:59:15] <XXCoder> sounds boring, but then long cnc jobs usually like that lol
[02:59:30] <root-x> You NOT want to disturb the neighbors?
[02:59:59] <XXCoder> root-x: its digitalizing
[03:00:07] <XXCoder> it needs to be quite slow to be accurate
[03:12:43] <pink_vampire> i did it in 200mm/min
[03:13:08] <XXCoder> probably at billion dots to model? ;)
[03:13:10] <XXCoder> kidding
[03:13:18] <XXCoder> how dense is it modeling?
[03:13:26] <pink_vampire> 85*70mm
[03:13:32] <pink_vampire> 60mm high
[03:13:45] <pink_vampire> point every 5mm
[03:14:02] <pink_vampire> now I want to get some 3d scanner
[03:14:39] <XXCoder> 238 dots
[03:14:50] <XXCoder> approx anyway
[03:16:45] <pink_vampire> one sec i will see
[03:17:24] <pink_vampire> 270 points
[03:18:03] <XXCoder> yeah I was pretty sure count was more because I didnt include last row and column
[03:18:08] <pink_vampire> 91 minutes for the digitizing
[03:18:20] <XXCoder> whats you digitizing anyway
[03:18:32] <pink_vampire> bone
[03:19:16] <XXCoder> interesting.
[03:19:27] <XXCoder> I do want to build a probve
[03:19:35] <pink_vampire> about 20 sec per point.
[03:20:02] <XXCoder> probably just grab a NO button that resets when lifted off
[03:21:29] <pink_vampire> I've used 1/8" ball bearings, 1/8" brass rod from lowes,
[03:21:48] <pink_vampire> and pcb for mounting the ball bearings.
[03:22:08] <pink_vampire> the body is made out of acrylic
[03:22:38] <XXCoder> hmm I wonder if I can design one. it have to be under 2 inches
[03:22:44] <pink_vampire> and the shaft is part of an edge finder
[03:22:49] <XXCoder> including electrics and probe itself
[03:22:59] <pink_vampire> there is no electronic
[03:23:13] <pink_vampire> one sec I will show you
[03:26:45] <pink_vampire> XXCoder: http://i.imgur.com/ziixI2O.png
[03:27:04] <pink_vampire> all the white parts is 5.5mm acrylic
[03:27:08] <XXCoder> so how it works is it lifts completely off ball bearings
[03:27:14] <XXCoder> and computer detects it?
[03:27:42] <pink_vampire> the gold part are brass rod
[03:28:43] <XXCoder> is there some sort of spring thats not metal to re-seat it after?
[03:28:46] <pink_vampire> and there a spring between the spider and the small barssrot at the top
[03:29:09] <pink_vampire> the spring is didn't show.
[03:29:20] <pink_vampire> so how it work.
[03:29:34] <XXCoder> hm I notice one thing though
[03:29:40] <XXCoder> the ring is in sections
[03:29:53] <XXCoder> is that to detect which angle it moves for sideways edge finding?
[03:30:10] <pink_vampire> the copper plate on the bottom is just a pcb.
[03:30:39] <XXCoder> so to detect one of those rods must lift off
[03:30:49] <XXCoder> therefore breaking circuit
[03:31:49] <pink_vampire> the spider is made from 2 acrylic parts, that sandwich 3 rods, so each rod is full isolated.
[03:32:21] <XXCoder> makes sense, otherwise it would remain in loop as long as in least 2 rods is still connected
[03:32:34] <pink_vampire> on the pcb there is 6 balls, between each 2 there is a gap
[03:33:10] <pink_vampire> and there is also a gap that from there you take 2 wires to your computer
[03:33:54] <pink_vampire> so each one rod and 2 ball bearings act as a NC switch
[03:34:24] <XXCoder> yeah I figured that
[03:34:40] <pink_vampire> so basically you have 3 NC switches connected in series
[03:35:49] <pink_vampire> if the probe touch something the conductivity brake.
[03:36:07] <XXCoder> thats whay i said previously
[03:36:10] <pink_vampire> now you can make your own probe :)
[03:36:35] <XXCoder> it does look pretty strightforward
[03:36:46] <XXCoder> maybe after I replace spindle so i can control speed better.
[03:37:24] <pink_vampire> there is no spindle..
[03:37:31] <XXCoder> I know
[03:37:40] <XXCoder> I need better spindle in order to CUT parts for it
[03:37:49] <pink_vampire> you just need to clamp it to the Z axis
[03:38:04] <XXCoder> I cant cut plastic anything, it would melt by all rubbing from grinder
[03:38:24] <pink_vampire> feed the material faster..
[03:39:02] <XXCoder> possibly though i already made gcode programs for adoptors
[03:39:10] <XXCoder> just need to figure where to buy aluminium
[03:42:22] <pink_vampire> I'm working on new prove
[03:42:26] <pink_vampire> probe/
[03:42:30] <XXCoder> nice
[03:42:46] <pink_vampire> maybe you can use that one
[03:42:57] <XXCoder> yeah
[04:22:31] <XXCoder> curious why youre digitalizing a bone pink_vampire
[04:25:07] <Loetmichel> *meh*... not a good idea to have ebay open when hungry.. just ordered 120 bags of "yumyum noodles" as snacks when i get hungry at the company ;)
[04:25:15] <XXCoder> lol
[04:25:36] <XXCoder> Loetmichel: there is fine balance of shopping for food. you should be not full but not too hungry too
[04:25:56] <XXCoder> http://theoatmeal.com/pl/minor_differences/grocery_shopping
[04:38:32] <SpeedEvil> I typically shop online, and make up an order, then go through it over the course of a day
[04:38:34] <SpeedEvil> works well
[04:40:08] <enleth> Duc_main: yeah, I could use a few more shots of the input part, preferably with a DSLR. One shot of the back and several of the component side, including at angles to peek under components. I can't figure out the power planes and input for the leftmost (Looking from top) opamp
[04:46:51] <enleth> there are five disjoint power plane infills and three possible logical power planes, but they seem to connect in places that are obscured by components
[04:48:29] <XXCoder> geeez. someone made a 3d printer using stock minecraft
[04:48:32] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0i8gUK1cVw
[04:48:46] <XXCoder> it dont make real objects but game statue by printing
[04:49:43] <XXCoder> another https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NosYiyNXhzQ
[04:49:53] <XXCoder> second one more advanced
[04:51:22] <pink_vampire> why we need that?
[04:51:58] <XXCoder> no reason, some people are challenged to build techinical stuff in game
[04:52:18] <XXCoder> my most advanced was text/artwork scroller
[06:09:41] <Demure_> Morning! Trying to finish up my enclosure, but wondering how neccesary a case fan is. There's two Leashine drives at 80v / 2a with heatsinks, a small 24v / 1.4a drive, a 180v 5a spindle drive, a 80v 800w power supply & a Mesanet daughter card. Everything spaced at least 4cm away from each other.
[06:09:54] <Demure_> Skipping the case fan would allow me to use the opening for a nice custom made panel.
[06:11:18] <enleth> Demure_: stick a fan inside to force airflow throughout the enclosure
[06:11:38] <Demure_> Okay, fan it is.
[06:12:00] <enleth> Demure_: I mean, you don't need to skip the panel
[06:12:32] <Demure_> The problem is that the case is 4mm sheet metal and I don't really have the right tools to work on it
[06:12:35] <enleth> Demure_: a fan that is completely inside the enclosure, in the middle of it or something, is better than no fan at all because it recirculates air
[06:12:57] <Demure_> I see.
[06:13:02] <enleth> Demure_: but often you don't need it on the enclosure wall and connected to the outside
[06:13:05] <Demure_> There's two tiny fans on the stepper drives, but I doubt that'll be enough
[06:13:36] <Demure_> Secondly, the drives are noted to be "VAC: 18-70v OR VD: 24v-100v", yet the two terminals for power only say "AC" and "AC". How do I connect a VDC supply up to that not knowing which is positive and which is negative?
[06:13:40] <enleth> Just recirculating the warm air inside helps avoid hotspots and distribute the heat all over the enclosure walls
[06:14:24] <archivist> having internal circulation uses the case itself as a heatsink, no holes needed
[06:14:43] <enleth> exactly
[06:15:03] <XXCoder> Demure_: and heatsink and fan blowing on it
[06:15:16] <XXCoder> that ones on outside. still no holes
[06:15:38] <XXCoder> combined with inside fan it should keep cabient cool forever basically.
[06:15:40] <Demure_> Oh, I didn't mean holes for circulation, but rather for cables
[06:15:40] <enleth> Demure_: lots of industrial machinery uses sealed control enclosures with forced internal airflow
[06:15:41] <archivist> leadshines dont seem to get very warm anyway
[06:16:02] <Demure_> I see, so it's not of a lesser degree either
[06:16:12] <Demure_> What about KBIC DC drives? Do those get warm?
[06:16:24] <XXCoder> sealed cases also means no dust and suff inside
[06:17:07] <archivist> Demure_, if it is a switching(pwm) drive then likely to not heat up much at all
[06:17:28] <Demure_> Ok, fan on the inside it'll be.
[06:17:42] <Demure_> Thanks!
[06:18:13] <Demure_> Anyone have any idea how to hook up the AC / VDC drive to VDC when the terminals just say AC and AC? Surely polarity still matters.
[06:19:32] <archivist> if full wave input then dont care
[06:19:38] <Demure_> It's the AM882H, but I cannot find a manual for it.
[06:19:46] <Demure_> Only the normal AM882.
[06:19:57] <Demure_> What is full wave input?
[06:20:04] <Demure_> Pardon my ignorance.
[06:21:35] <archivist> there is no AC input on that drive
[06:21:48] <Demure_> Not on the AM882
[06:21:52] <Demure_> But the AM882H has it
[06:22:21] <Demure_> Says right on the front of the drive, VAC: 18~70 OR VDC: 24~100v
[06:22:33] <Demure_> Same size as the AM882 but with a heatsink attached with an internal fan
[06:22:38] <Demure_> The terminals say AC and AC for power
[06:22:59] <Demure_> Seems like a beefed up AM882 considering the VDC has a higher max input (100v) over the AM882's 80v.
[06:23:45] <Hydrar> Demure_: 80V AC is roughly 100-ish volts peak to peak DC
[06:24:21] <Hydrar> And the first stage on the drive is *probably* a full-bridge rectifier so polarity won't matter, since when you run it on AC, the polarity switches 50 times per second :P
[06:24:49] <Demure_> How do I recognize this? I can open it up and have a look at the circuit
[06:26:42] <Demure_> Looks like two big caps
[06:27:05] <Hydrar> If it's a half-wave rectifier, it'll only run with one polarity, other polarity will just make it do nothing
[06:27:22] <Hydrar> (Assuming the drive input is similar to the VFD's I've seen)
[06:27:26] <Demure_> Okay, so I'm safe either way to wire it up.
[06:27:44] <Hydrar> I would think so, but I have no experience with those sorta drives, just some general electronics knowledge :)
[06:28:05] <Demure_> Good enough for me. :) I was thinking something similar, otherwise it'd make no sense to not label the polarity on them.
[06:28:20] <Hydrar> But generally if it takes AC input, and outputting DC, it needs to rectify it one way or another
[06:29:10] <Demure_> Makes sense.
[06:29:37] <enleth> Demure_: if you want to be double sure, just look for diodes or a bridge near those capacitors
[06:31:43] <Demure_> Ok, found a bridge
[06:31:44] <Demure_> Good.
[06:32:24] <Demure_> Then as my last question before I can wire everything up: The Antek power supply is 110v or 220v, it says if you're using 220v to connect the first red and black windings together (It has two of each). However they're not labeled, so before I mess up: I assume they mean the first one that comes off of the coil?
[06:42:00] <Spida> Demure_: you'll find the matching pairs of your windings with the continuity check function of your meter
[06:43:35] <Demure_> Ok, that was easy, thanks. :)
[07:24:07] <archivist> what did opti-werke gmbh make ? I have a couple of press tools by them, one actually stamps opti on the item being stamped out
[07:25:46] <Sync> archivist: zippers
[07:26:20] <archivist> shape of the hole makes sense now
[07:27:26] <archivist> I got them in a batch of small tools that "might come in useful"
[07:40:22] <archivist> and after a bit of research opti merged/had a joint venture with Lightening in the UK in 1965
[09:16:08] <kimi> Hi guys
[09:16:15] <kimi> Really needs help from you guys
[09:16:25] <kimi> anybody here expert in macro programming ?
[09:17:14] <archivist> macro? what language
[09:17:45] <kimi> cnc macro programming
[09:17:48] <kimi> fanuc
[09:18:29] * archivist expects linuxcnc questions
[09:18:43] <kimi> oh sorry
[09:18:49] <kimi> so anybody else ?
[09:19:00] <gregcnc> i'd try the sticky on practicalmachinist cnc forum
[09:19:20] <kimi> so greg can you help me ?
[09:19:30] <kimi> are you familiar with macro programming ?
[09:19:37] <gregcnc> never written a macro
[09:20:18] <_methods> just ask your question
[09:20:24] <kimi> okay,
[09:20:26] <_methods> if someone can help you they will
[09:20:47] <kimi> now, i am using 4-axis cnc machine
[09:21:28] <kimi> so everytime to post a .nc program i need to convert it through a software
[09:21:47] <kimi> so any idea how to create a program using macro programming
[09:22:02] <_methods> there are books on the subject
[09:22:16] <_methods> it's just like any other cnc program
[09:22:16] <kimi> i did for 4 axis.
[09:22:24] <kimi> and it successfull
[09:22:35] <kimi> now trying to do on 5-axis
[09:22:47] <kimi> any forum or book recommend?
[09:23:18] <_methods> one sec
[09:24:01] <_methods> http://www.amazon.com/Programming-using-Fanuc-Custom-Macro/dp/0071713328
[09:24:23] <_methods> http://www.amazon.com/Fanuc-Custom-Macros-Peter-Smid/dp/0831131578/
[09:24:56] <_methods> http://www.pmpa.org/docs/technical-conference/cnc-programming-workshop.pdf
[09:25:09] <_methods> free slide show explanation of fanuc macros
[09:25:33] <_methods> that pdf appears to be fairly comprehensive
[09:26:27] <_methods> both of those books i posted links to are recommended reading in that pdf lol
[09:26:59] <gregcnc> thanks, may be useful to me soon too
[09:27:10] <kimi> really appreciate
[09:27:21] <_methods> np
[09:28:33] <_methods> they have some tool life macros in that pdf that i used quite frequently
[09:28:40] <_methods> basically the only thing i macro anymore
[09:33:38] <kimi> now all latest machine already have tool life management
[09:33:54] <kimi> etc. robodrill.
[10:34:14] <Magnifikus> stupid question i got a br0 device with eth0 and wlan0, can i somehow run dhcpd/dnsmasq only on wlan0?
[10:34:25] <Magnifikus> so dhcp requests from eth0 get ignored
[10:34:34] <Magnifikus> or do i need routing :/
[10:35:00] <_methods> i think you can do that with dnsmasq
[10:35:15] <_methods> you would just shut of dhcp server on eth0
[10:35:26] <_methods> just enable dhcp on wlan0
[10:36:23] <_methods> basically you just want to make a wifi hotspot?
[10:37:39] <_methods> configure hostapd to run dhcp on wlan0
[10:38:48] <_methods> http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/debian-ubuntu-linux-setting-wireless-access-point/
[10:38:51] <_methods> for debian
[10:39:00] <_methods> i have no idea what your OS is though
[10:48:13] <Magnifikus> i want to bridge wlan0 to eth0 on the same subnet
[10:48:28] <Magnifikus> but i only want dhcp only to be active on wlan0
[10:48:40] <Hydrar> Just keep in mind directly bridging a wifi and a ethernet adapter is "kindof" unsupported and/or broken
[10:48:48] <Magnifikus> BUT with bridge wlan0 becomes "passive" and br0 is the active device with ip etc
[10:48:55] <Hydrar> I tried lots to get that thing working, openwrt has patches to make it work
[10:49:07] <Hydrar> But mainline linux kernel didn't seem to back when I tried with 3.10 something
[10:49:12] <Magnifikus> meh so i need to setup routing
[10:49:15] <Magnifikus> okay :)
[10:49:29] <Hydrar> Easiest, yeah imo
[10:49:52] <Hydrar> Bridging require the so-called "4addr" WDS mode
[10:50:02] <Hydrar> Which means both AP and client needs to be openwrt iirc too
[10:58:15] <_methods> what exactly are you trying to do?
[10:58:38] <CaptHindsight> OT: what killed mesh networks? Too difficult to spy on? Lack of interest? Unsightly wifi antennas?
[10:58:57] <_methods> plenty of mesh network stuff still going on
[10:59:22] <_methods> http://www.open-mesh.com/
[10:59:26] <CaptHindsight> it was supposed to be a "game changer"
[10:59:36] <_methods> it is just on large scale
[10:59:39] <_methods> not so much for home use
[11:00:09] <_methods> http://www.openmesh.org/
[11:00:13] <_methods> oops that openmesh
[11:00:16] <_methods> not the other one
[11:00:21] <CaptHindsight> get around slow-ass networks and isp's
[11:00:29] <_methods> geez not even that one
[11:00:54] <_methods> i guess openmesh is dead
[11:00:58] <_methods> wtf did it turn into
[11:02:15] <CaptHindsight> https://www.open-mesh.org/projects/open-mesh/wiki
[11:02:30] <_methods> ah .org
[11:02:56] <CaptHindsight> mits da -
[11:07:24] <CaptHindsight> too difficult to deputize every wifi user
[11:07:34] <_methods> i don't think it was the panacea the press made it out to be
[11:09:00] <CaptHindsight> I can see it working with a network of well configured Linux systems, not so much with broken M$ devices and android
[11:11:22] <CaptHindsight> plus it would allow users to send packets to each other not through the handful of isp's available in the US
[11:17:27] <CaptHindsight> ah "Disadvantages - Maintaining mesh networks can be very hard to manage. It requires continuous supervision because of the redundancy present in the network. Skilled network administrators will find it easy to manage this kind of topology."
[11:18:18] <CaptHindsight> "Due to the fact that building this topology requires a lot of devices it will need a lot of capital to invest in. It may be expensive but the service it provides you will definitely give back the invested capital." eye roll
[11:19:01] <_methods> yeah i think most home users don't need anything more than zero hand off ap's
[11:19:18] <_methods> a mesh network is overkill for most home networks
[11:20:42] <CaptHindsight> it was supposed to be mainly for cities where nodes were close enough to each other to have a strong enough signal to keep the bandwidth up
[11:21:48] <CaptHindsight> and also to extend broadband out to rural areas with nodes that just act as repeaters
[11:22:19] <_methods> yeah
[11:25:10] <CaptHindsight> _methods: how much 2-way bandwidth can those $20 openwrt devices move?
[11:25:43] <yasnak> mesh sucks. I mean its cool if you have a low bandwidth low density massive footprint. but otherwise running the cable is the wya to go
[11:27:33] <CaptHindsight> $20 openwrt box, 2 Pringle's can antennas + power
[11:27:39] <yasnak> *running cable for the access points. I run *2* of the really cheap basic ubnt LR old school AP's. It covers our entire shop and everyones devices with ease
[11:28:13] <CaptHindsight> powerline networking was the other tech from the 80-90's
[11:28:38] <yasnak> I think the new AP's can actually use the 5GHz channel for AP to AP cross talk and then use the 2.4GHz channel for devices but again that gets complex in administration
[11:29:58] <CaptHindsight> I haven't looked into the FCC rules on max power output lately
[11:30:21] <yasnak> but max power isn't all
[11:30:32] <CaptHindsight> 5ghz gets clobbered during rain and snow
[11:30:34] <yasnak> the devices then will see the AP but wont be able to respond
[11:32:32] <CaptHindsight> http://www.slideshare.net/1ereposition/long-distance-wifi-trial
[11:33:15] <yasnak> https://www.ubnt.com/products/#wireless
[11:33:33] <yasnak> if thats what you're looking into research the airmax products. they work amazingly.
[11:34:29] <CaptHindsight> yasnak: ~35 years ago I started out in microwave communications
[11:35:30] <CaptHindsight> the analog side hasn't changed much except for much lower noise components
[11:38:53] <CaptHindsight> give the design to the Chinese, order cheap knockoffs through alibaba
[11:45:49] <yasnak> that works too ;)
[11:46:22] <yasnak> to each their own, i personally like the controllers they make and the gui's on them. makes management a bit easier depending on your scale
[11:50:01] <CaptHindsight> I worked on a set top box 10 years ago for India that was going to use mesh for file sharing (mostly movies) and extending broadband out to the rural areas, they had about 60 million customers
[11:53:24] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: you mean like wifi routers now that have a second wifi active to mesh with each other and distribute the internet to rurual areas by "daisychaining" the wifis down the road?
[11:56:01] <t12_> did it work well?
[11:58:51] <enleth> Dammit, $550 for a custom transformer to power the servos. A bit less than I expected but it's still a fair chunk of money. Count in a full bridge 3 phase rectifier and it's even more.
[11:59:39] <archivist> use more than one transformer so you can use standard ones
[12:00:04] <enleth> funnily enough, that's actually going to be more expensive
[12:02:09] <enleth> I was quoted $550 for a 3 phase 3kVA 400/145V transformer, which is less than the closest fitting off the shelf part and less than 3 closest single phase parts
[12:03:34] <enleth> less copper than a higher voltage part I suppose
[12:03:55] <archivist> or be brave, wind it yourself
[12:05:12] <djdelorie> archivist: you mean like http://www.delorie.com/electronics/bldc/transformer/ ?
[12:05:20] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: yes. What is the name of that mesh network in Germany?
[12:05:27] <enleth> I recall someone here saying that they tried and it wasn't pleasant
[12:05:38] <djdelorie> unless you have a vacuum system to seal and secure all the windings, it's going to buzz...
[12:05:48] <enleth> djdelorie: ah, that was you
[12:05:59] <enleth> with a very small transformer
[12:06:08] <djdelorie> "size doesn't matter" :-)
[12:06:18] <archivist> I have a winding machine, but never used it
[12:06:21] <enleth> unless you go 3kVA, I guess
[12:06:45] <CaptHindsight> might be https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freifunk
[12:06:54] <enleth> I mean, when flipping the core around takes a considerable effort, you know it's not going to be easy
[12:06:58] <archivist> I have a pile of interwinding insulation and wire too
[12:07:39] <djdelorie> machine-winding an E-core is probably a lot easier than hand-winding a toroid
[12:08:04] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: "freifunk"
[12:08:32] <archivist> the machine to wind toroids is a bit funky
[12:08:55] <enleth> djdelorie: by the point I set up some kind of transformer winding contraption, I'll probably have spent as much as this transformer costs, and hopefully I don't plan needing big transformers that often.
[12:09:53] <enleth> archivist: I tried to build one a long time ago. Failed miserably but it was fun nevertheless.
[12:11:02] <CaptHindsight> t12: arm set top box with AMD x86 media server for the neighborhood, worked great
[12:11:11] <djdelorie> mine worked, although I had to open two of the secondaries and add turns to compensate more for losses
[12:13:01] <CaptHindsight> all modular so you could sell upgrades and easily swap components
[12:24:20] <cpresser> CaptHindsight: i am working in the freifunk community. it is slow. but thats because of regulations
[12:24:37] <cpresser> and meshint itself, over more than 2 hops is also not that fast
[12:25:00] <cpresser> but most of the speed is lost because freifunk needs to use a VPN to tunnel traffic outside of germany
[12:31:41] <maxcnc> hi freom a real sunny hot germany
[12:31:51] <maxcnc> 25deg C outside
[12:33:02] <jdh> 25 is fairly cool
[12:33:26] <maxcnc> 77F
[12:33:41] <maxcnc> we came out of the winter
[12:33:56] <maxcnc> eain for 2 weks
[12:34:05] <maxcnc> rain
[12:34:15] <jdh> was 35 on saturday
[12:34:28] <maxcnc> to hot for BBq
[12:34:43] <_methods> hot lol
[12:35:22] <_methods> CaptHindsight: the bandwidth you can push would depend on teh device
[12:35:45] <_methods> but that mesh networking is half duplex by nature unless you do like yasnak said and use 5ghz for between devices
[12:35:53] <_methods> and 2.4 for everything else
[12:36:14] <maxcnc> we here in the old shop area got a town wifi network
[12:36:52] <maxcnc> one center link to 100mBit backboan and static to the outsacurts about 1km aqay
[12:37:00] <maxcnc> witn 20mbit max
[12:37:42] <pink_vampire> the cnc is running for more then 8 hours !!
[12:37:53] <pink_vampire> single job!
[12:37:59] <maxcnc> pink_vampire: cool down its geting late
[12:38:25] <maxcnc> then you might did a wrong nc code
[12:38:36] <maxcnc> roughing and then finish
[12:38:42] <pink_vampire> it's a digitizing
[12:38:56] <maxcnc> ah so better to use laser
[12:39:23] <pink_vampire> I want a 3d scanner
[12:39:44] <maxcnc> cheep to build on a line laser at 20USD
[12:40:12] <maxcnc> if you can go on lets say 0.25mm
[12:40:36] <pink_vampire> how is laser vs kinect
[12:40:53] <maxcnc> laser is better on small sizess
[12:41:04] <maxcnc> kinect is cool at humen sizes
[12:41:24] <maxcnc> and all depends on shape
[12:41:40] <pink_vampire> parts that can be machine..
[12:41:53] <maxcnc> most yoiu can do lots of things simple at sketchup warehouse and blender manipulation
[12:42:14] <maxcnc> mashine parts are constructiv mutch faster
[12:42:22] <maxcnc> sculps is the problem
[12:42:41] <pink_vampire> 75% done
[12:42:52] <maxcnc> can you give me a idee on parts
[12:43:04] <maxcnc> some googlle search how it might look
[12:43:07] <pink_vampire> now I'm probing a bone
[12:43:25] <maxcnc> huneb bone or animal
[12:43:30] <maxcnc> humen
[12:43:42] <maxcnc> or robot
[12:44:19] <Sync> faro arm + laser tracker
[12:44:31] <pink_vampire> faro arm ??
[12:44:47] <maxcnc> http://tf3dm.com/3d-model/skeleton-94668.html
[12:45:06] <maxcnc> Sync: thats cool
[12:45:40] <maxcnc> i got a 1mm point distance at .2mm that calculates all the points
[12:46:11] <pink_vampire> http://www.atrp.gatech.edu/pt22-1/faro_measurement.jpg
[12:46:13] <pink_vampire> WTF
[12:46:34] <Sync> problems?
[12:46:43] <Sync> somehow you gotta engineer meat processing plants
[12:47:11] <maxcnc> its bevor the oven and after
[12:47:41] <maxcnc> best on faro is the cam that supports textures
[12:48:25] <maxcnc> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAbFti298-c
[12:49:14] <Sync> it is not really that great, but it works
[12:49:53] <maxcnc> construction is not to be overgone
[12:49:56] <CaptHindsight> _methods: how much are they getting through the cheap openwrt $20 devices?
[12:50:59] <maxcnc> CaptHindsight: we use that at the university for astreonomic telescope linking
[12:51:01] <CaptHindsight> _methods: are they arm11 or are they more modern ARM's?
[12:51:19] <pink_vampire> on ebay used 39K$
[12:51:34] <pink_vampire> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Faro-EDGE-12ft-Portable-Arm-CMM-w-Laser-Scanner-with-Polyworks-Inspector-/221936584910?hash=item33ac7388ce:g:kSQAAOSwT5tWQL3Y
[12:52:19] <CaptHindsight> quad cortex-a7's are like $4 now
[12:52:27] <_methods> well it just depends on the device they're usually pretty anemic
[12:53:41] <_methods> https://wiki.openwrt.org/doc/faq/faq.wireless
[12:53:59] <_methods> throughput is at the top of the page pretty much
[12:54:27] <maxcnc> CaptHindsight: tr3040 is in the telescop that works on 250m at 50mbit
[12:55:19] <_methods> yeah that would be half duplex of tmt 100MB/s
[12:55:32] <maxcnc> pink_vampire: is it a real humen like boan you are scanning
[12:56:54] <maxcnc> _methods: in hometown we got a dlink chain network with 4 strait links
[12:57:08] <pink_vampire> yes, but it is not the actual bone just mold
[12:57:50] <maxcnc> so thake the bone and a rectangle and bolean out
[12:58:39] <pink_vampire> I'm not sure what do you mean
[12:58:46] <pink_vampire> http://i.imgur.com/ziVZRbK.jpg
[12:58:51] <maxcnc> the bone is the positiv
[12:59:02] <maxcnc> you need the negativ =mold
[12:59:36] <maxcnc> so just cut the boan out of the material block by bolean at freecad or blender or nurbs CAD
[12:59:48] <maxcnc> that takes 5min
[13:00:58] <maxcnc> pink_vampire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDweCpDAB_o
[13:01:48] <pink_vampire> I have positive
[13:05:51] <maxcnc> pink_vampire: so then use the tutorial to cut into a mold block
[13:06:14] <pink_vampire> I'm using solidworks
[13:06:42] <maxcnc> there is also a boolean funktion
[13:06:44] <pink_vampire> it has build in function to convert it to surface
[13:07:21] <maxcnc> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efvU6grqBxo
[13:10:23] <maxcnc> so seecombine the bone to the mold
[13:10:59] <pink_vampire> I know that..
[13:11:39] <maxcnc> so put the bone inside your block make a sketch at the mold split line
[13:12:13] <maxcnc> see the video at 4.30
[13:13:25] <maxcnc> HoloPed: is cool but real peds are mutch cooler
[13:13:46] <HoloPed> maxcnc, what ?
[13:13:50] <HoloPed> what are peds
[13:14:06] <maxcnc> dogs cats chicken ..
[13:14:20] <HoloPed> I have no idea what you're talking about
[13:14:29] <_methods> don't worry no one does
[13:14:35] <maxcnc> oh its the ped the point you stand on to be beamt
[13:14:49] <HoloPed> right.
[13:14:54] <HoloPed> Carry on then.
[13:15:27] <maxcnc> the university here holds a Startrek convention every year
[13:15:50] <maxcnc> http://startrekvorlesung.fh-kl.de/?reload=true
[13:16:35] <maxcnc> im off bye
[13:18:26] <HoloPed> Farewell maxcnc
[13:18:29] <HoloPed> you will be missed.
[13:18:46] <Deejay> not
[13:18:56] <Deejay> ;-)
[13:23:08] <pink_vampire> how can i calculate the holding torque that i need?
[13:25:06] <HoloPed> pink_vampire, 7
[13:25:08] <HoloPed> its 7
[13:25:16] <HoloPed> 7 torques
[13:25:34] <pink_vampire> not 42?
[13:26:37] <Deejay> 7 is only one sixth of the truth
[13:26:50] <CaptHindsight> using H.265 today at PAL resolution you could really cram lots of video into a mesh
[13:29:58] <pink_vampire> i know the weight of the z axis moving part.
[13:30:17] <pink_vampire> and the pitch of the ballscrew
[13:30:39] <Tom_itx> and the coefficient of friction on the slide?
[13:31:08] <pink_vampire> I have no idea. lets say no friction
[13:32:09] <pink_vampire> Tom_itx: ^
[13:33:04] <Tom_itx> https://buildyourcnc.com/torquemotion.aspx
[13:35:20] <pink_vampire> Torque = ((weight)(inches/revolution))/2(pi)(efficiency)
[13:35:36] <CaptHindsight> European or African friction?
[13:35:58] <CaptHindsight> i mean static or kinetic
[13:36:02] <Tom_itx> use KY
[13:36:49] <pink_vampire> Torque = ((100lbs)(0.19685/1))/2(pi)(efficiency)
[13:36:52] <pink_vampire> efficiency=?
[13:37:01] <Tom_itx> 30%
[13:37:19] <CaptHindsight> why not use materials with a negative coefficient of friction and not use a motor?
[13:38:30] <pink_vampire> 927.1635
[13:39:14] <CaptHindsight> I wish G Heskett and a few others on the ML used IRC
[13:39:20] <pink_vampire> if the efficiency is 100 it's 3090.545
[13:39:30] <_methods> lol
[13:39:36] <CaptHindsight> but then again they might get fed up too quickly
[13:39:51] <pink_vampire> something not working...
[13:44:54] <pink_vampire> wooow the cnc running for more then 9 hours!!
[14:52:23] <JT-Shop> Gene still uses Morse code and a Marconi unit.
[14:52:56] <miss0r> On my growing list of converns, I an noew, unfortunatly, add learning that the former owner of my cnc used chainsaw oil as way lubrication...
[14:53:53] <_methods> put some real way oil in there and drive on
[14:54:21] <miss0r> I just completed doing so. I only started looking into it, as i noticed some binding in the y axis
[14:54:34] <miss0r> I cleaned out the resivour and filled it with the real stuff
[14:54:50] <_methods> yeah first thing to check on a new machine is to see if way oiler system is functional
[14:55:17] <miss0r> the system is functional. the oil is the bad guy here
[14:55:37] <SpeedEvil> Chainsaw oil isn't the worst thing.
[14:55:49] <_methods> yeah at least soemthing was in there lol
[14:59:01] <miss0r> indeed. I'm not too worried about exessive wear. I just want the motion to be smooth again. sometimes, when I use the 'handwheel', set for 0.001 increments, it takes 0.005 to start moving. I would like to correct this
[14:59:19] <miss0r> mm that is
[15:00:38] <miss0r> which translates into withness marks on the outside surface of a round object... I can't have it :)
[15:01:51] <miss0r> What way oil are you guys using? I feel like I was robbed buying this 75$/gallon way lube
[15:09:12] <_methods> iso vg42 i think
[15:09:24] <_methods> i think i paid $35 for 5 gallons
[15:09:58] <_methods> vg 46 maybe
[15:10:01] <_methods> i forget
[15:10:15] <_methods> http://www.amazon.com/Sinopec-H-DLHMAW46-SP-Hydraulic-gallon-Pail/dp/B0157STBH2
[15:10:19] <Jymmm> http://www.amazon.com/Passion-Lubes-Natural-Water-Based-Lubricant/dp/B005MR3IVO/
[15:10:54] <SpeedEvil> you should not use that
[15:11:08] <_methods> oops maybe vg68
[15:11:14] <_methods> can't see my purchase history now
[15:11:42] <_methods> http://www.amazon.com/Sinopec-Hydraulic-Oil-ISO-gallon/dp/B014EF83VY
[15:11:44] <_methods> i think that one
[15:12:24] <_methods> $35 and free shipping for 5gal
[15:12:48] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: you sick puppy!
[15:12:52] <_methods> heheh
[15:12:54] <Frank_7> who buys 55 gal
[15:12:56] <_methods> he likes it dry
[15:13:21] <_methods> if every 55gal comes with 2 chicks
[15:13:23] <Jymmm> _methods: SpeedEvilSadist?
[15:13:24] <_methods> sign me up
[15:13:30] <_methods> hahah
[15:13:33] <Frank_7> hehe
[15:13:38] <_methods> why you think his name is SpeedEvil
[15:14:04] <Jymmm> _methods: you got a point there
[15:14:17] <SpeedEvil> I actually had a 55 gallon drum of silicone lube that I meant to link bookmarked
[15:14:20] <SpeedEvil> but I can't find it
[15:15:47] <Frank_7> guys, im reading my spec info sheet of servomotor, and i cant understand the hole open collector/line driver interface, how do i know if i need to do the open collector circuit?? for mesa cards
[15:21:26] <miss0r> damnit. I knew i overpaied.
[15:21:38] <miss0r> The basterd even had the nerve to tell me I got a good price
[15:31:42] <Jymmm> miss0r: Go back, cut his balls off, then offer to sell them back to him for a good price.
[15:34:21] <miss0r> oh dear... where on a scale from 'doesn't matter' to 'don't worrie about it', would you put chips in the linear encoder?
[15:37:08] <cpresser> depends on the type of encoder
[15:38:09] <cpresser> optical encoders: that might be a problem.. magnetic encoders could also be problemativ if the chips are magnetic
[15:38:52] <miss0r> i have no idea. probally optical, as theres glass in there?
[15:56:48] <enleth> Frank_7: those who can't buy anything smaller
[15:57:33] <Frank_7> lol
[15:58:19] <enleth> Frank_7: no oil supplier in this whole damn country sells ISO68 way oil in a jug smaller than 20l
[15:58:28] <enleth> that's 5 gallons or so, I think
[15:59:09] <Frank_7> how much does that last for 1 bridgeport
[15:59:18] <enleth> years
[15:59:42] <XXCoder> enleth: buy few of those 20 gal, rebottle and resell
[15:59:49] <XXCoder> some machinists would be grateful heh
[15:59:52] <enleth> unless you're doing shifts, then maybe months
[16:02:24] <enleth> XXCoder: 20 litres, not so bad, but still much more than I need, and it was hard to find. Most suppliers just sell 208l (55gal) drums
[16:03:21] <XXCoder> lol ok
[16:10:28] <Hydrar> Does those huge mills have proper hour counters on or how do you time your oil changes?
[16:10:48] <Hydrar> I'm kinda mildly annoyed how even industrial compressors sometimes lack the hour counter
[16:11:18] <Deejay> gn8
[16:16:09] <enleth> Hydrar: how huge? the moderately huge ones need topping up the oil, not changing it
[16:17:35] <Hydrar> enleth: Just thinking the bridgeports you were discussing, I honestly only have about 2 hours of experience with a 5kW horizontal manual
[16:17:41] <Hydrar> And it was some swedish brand
[16:19:46] <enleth> Hydrar: well, bridgeports tend to use the Bijur Delimon system which is a lost oil volume distribution system
[16:21:14] <enleth> technically, the oil falls in the coolant overflow pan and into the coolant reservoir
[16:22:00] <enleth> so you just top up the oil reservoir when it gets low
[16:22:39] <enleth> and, ideally, remove the old oil floating on top of coolant
[16:23:02] <enleth> or just screw it and let the coolant pump suck in the oil and recirculate it as coolant
[16:31:35] <CaptHindsight> anyone know the beam diameter at exit from the various CO2 ChinaCo laser tubes?
[16:32:02] <djdelorie> whatever the spec says, plus 50% ;-)
[16:32:23] <enleth> spec? what spec?
[16:32:45] <enleth> you're lucky if the diameter of the whole tube matches the item description when it arrives
[16:33:18] <CaptHindsight> certainly
[16:33:26] <Hydrar> enleth, Ah right, makes sense
[16:33:54] <Hydrar> And yeah I'd not be surprised at this point if someone received a printed photo of a laser tube in a big box
[16:34:56] <CaptHindsight> whats the beam diameter of the cheapo laser Chinaco laser markers without the galvos?
[16:35:09] <enleth> Hydrar: oh, and on CNC models the oil pump is motorized, with a low RPM synchronous motor that pumps a set amount of oil every few minutes
[16:35:32] <enleth> Hydrar: on manuals, you need to pull on a plunger from time to time
[16:35:38] <Hydrar> enleth: Ah right
[16:35:41] <Hydrar> Makes sense then
[16:36:01] <enleth> so a CNC bridgeport will use up oil as long as it's turned on because the oil pump is working constantly
[16:36:07] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/DIY-40W-USB-Laser-Printer-Engraver-Cutter-Laser-Engraving-Cutting-Machine/281117889298 ~1mm??
[16:36:23] <enleth> CaptHindsight: definitely less than 1mm
[16:36:35] <CaptHindsight> .9mm?
[16:37:09] <CaptHindsight> >100um <900um
[16:37:33] <enleth> if you set the lens right and match the table height, I think it would be around 0.5mm
[16:37:47] <enleth> I could check tomorrow
[16:38:08] <CaptHindsight> close enough
[17:02:25] <Polymorphism> Igus CF10 TPE shielded chainflex cable, 12 feet 14/4, 7 feet 26/12, and 30 feet of 18/4 $146
[17:28:11] <andypugh> So, today, I mainly made some scrap.
[17:29:12] <Sync> nice
[17:30:30] <andypugh> I had decided that my 45mm material was ideal to make an eccentric mounting for my 36mm resolver. So I bored the housing for the resolver, then offset the material 4mm, and realised what I _should_ have done was offset the material then bore the housing…
[17:31:14] <Sync> tell that rene-dev who forgot that a mill has a diameter when touching off :D
[17:32:20] <Sync> I wrote a very basic profidrive thing
[17:32:26] <Sync> at least the servos spin now
[17:33:15] <andypugh> Sync: So does a touch-probe. I pretty much always remeber that now.
[17:34:09] <enleth> got that Denford Orac for $1900
[17:34:10] <andypugh> On the plus side, this was the first time I have used the Holbrook to make parts.
[17:34:18] <enleth> arrives next Sunday
[17:34:59] <andypugh> I am a little disturbed that all the hot swarf is going to damage the paintwork :-)
[17:35:50] <enleth> andypugh: I just watched the latest Panzax video of his lathe reassembly project and I kind of wish I had decided to repaint the Bridgeport
[17:36:02] <andypugh> Ooh, eBay bargains, I found a 12” precision spirit level on eBay under “Everything else / other” and so far it looks like I might get it for 99p :-)
[17:36:25] <enleth> but then I see how long it took him with the lathe and it doesn't seem to be such a good idea anymore
[17:37:36] <andypugh> Hey! Someone with a stranger voice than me :-)
[17:38:16] <andypugh> He may have over-done the repaint.
[17:39:24] <andypugh> I am not a fan of painting, I hate it. But on reflection I am glad I did it because it sets a different level of expectation in the final reslut.
[17:40:12] <enleth> he stripped the lathe bare with a needle scaler and re-primed it
[17:40:17] <enleth> lots of work
[17:40:20] <enleth> but it does look nice
[17:40:30] <andypugh> And, actually, filling the chips in the existing paint with knifing putty and over-painting with Tractrol and a brush isn’t that painfull,
[17:40:38] <BeachBumPete> I stripped my current CNC lathe project to bare metal as well.
[17:41:17] <enleth> I'm probably going to do that with the mill after the next shop move
[17:41:18] <BeachBumPete> I also stripped and repainted my old RF45 CNC mill conversion way back when.
[17:41:38] <enleth> which I hope won't be anytime soon
[17:41:59] <enleth> I'll need to take it apart for a move anyway
[17:42:42] <Sync> andypugh: depends on the probe
[17:42:55] <Sync> some activate when they are on axis
[17:43:04] <BeachBumPete> while it IS a bunch of work I am glad I did it both times because I could see exactly what the iron looks like and see and find any surprises in the castings fortunately there were none both times
[17:46:31] <andypugh> All I did with this was fill the chips in the paint with knifing putty and slap a new top coat on with a brush. Looks OK on video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woU927Tqoo8
[17:46:46] <Tom_itx> BeachBumPete is your lathe sitting down there bare metal rusting now?
[17:47:09] <Tom_itx> or did you manage to paint it before moving
[17:47:13] <Sync> classic 10ft paint job
[17:47:27] <BeachBumPete> Tom_itx it was all painted before I moved
[17:47:30] <Tom_itx> 89F summer is here
[17:47:50] <BeachBumPete> thats about what it was here today altho we are expecting some serious rain/storms tonight
[17:48:18] <Sync> moved into your house already BeachBumPete?
[17:48:27] <Tom_itx> http://www.intellicast.com/Local/WxMap.aspx
[17:48:29] <Tom_itx> yes you are
[17:48:33] <BeachBumPete> Sync no man unfortunately we have not
[17:48:36] <andypugh> Sync: Hey! It actualy reflects light! I have never had a shiny machine tool before.
[17:48:45] <BeachBumPete> we are supposed to be closing before the end of the month tho
[17:48:54] <Tom_itx> can't even see Fl under all that green
[17:48:58] <Sync> haha andypugh
[17:49:00] <enleth> http://www.lathes.co.uk/emco/img4.jpg - is there a proper technical name for the "stalk" that houses the X handwheel?
[17:50:00] <gregcnc> cross slide
[17:50:09] <gregcnc> sorry compound slide
[17:50:16] <BeachBumPete> we are living right now in west palm beach and I THINK we sorta missed it as most of it is going over where we are GOING to be living right now
[17:50:21] <enleth> gregcnc: no, not that part
[17:50:35] <BeachBumPete> X yoke?
[17:50:47] <enleth> gregcnc: the long thin thing that bolts above the apron
[17:51:19] <enleth> and houses the dial and the handwheel to put it past the slide travel
[17:52:46] <gregcnc> clausing manual calls it cross slide bearing assembly
[17:53:21] <enleth> I guess I need to find an Emco 8 manual
[17:54:31] <enleth> "lead screw mount", fair enough
[17:54:45] <andypugh> lead-screw extension mayhaps?
[17:54:56] <gregcnc> you think that will fit the orac?
[17:56:23] <Sync> enleth: find me a macmep (master) lathe :P
[17:56:32] <andypugh> For a CNC that can be handy place to put the leadscrew thrust bearings.
[17:56:41] <enleth> gregcnc: it should, even the bolt holes are there
[17:56:55] <enleth> there's just a flat cover there instead of this part
[17:57:25] <enleth> of course the leadscrew is shorter
[17:57:31] <enleth> but I guess I'll figure something out
[17:57:59] <enleth> both leadscrews are belt driven so there's ample space to mount brakes
[17:58:10] <enleth> yeah, it should work
[18:00:20] <enleth> worst case I can cut a slit in the end of the leadscrew and make an extension that fits in there
[18:01:09] <enleth> Z is harder, no way to do a rack and pinion gearing with a ball nut
[18:05:01] <andypugh> enleth: This looks a bit wierd, but has worked flawlessly for me for years now:
[18:05:28] <andypugh> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/mini-lathe/63621-cnc-2.html#post509784
[18:06:24] <andypugh> So, there is a belt sprocket that looks far too small that fits under the slide, and a pair of bearings in the extension piece to take the end-thrust.
[18:06:58] <andypugh> (And a needle-roller bearing next to the tiny pulley to take the belt forces)
[18:07:39] <enleth> andypugh: well, I'm doing it the other way around
[18:08:03] <enleth> it's already CNC, and the screw *doesn't* extend past the apron
[18:08:22] <enleth> or I'm misunderstanding what I see
[18:08:36] <andypugh> The new conversion has a slide that does not pass the apron-front too, so that was easier
[18:09:12] <enleth> yeah, that's a problem with Emco 8 and ORAC
[18:09:25] <andypugh> I needed to extend the screw on that lathe to get the toolpost all the way out
[18:09:26] <enleth> so I'll just try to get the Emco part
[18:10:10] <enleth> as for Z - the Z ballscrew pitch is 5mm, so I'm thinking of two handwheels, one geared 1:1 for rapid movement and the other geared down quite a bit for fine control
[18:10:35] <andypugh> I am not clear what your problem is, or what you want to achieve.
[18:10:50] <enleth> add handwheels (and brakes of course) to the ORAC
[18:11:14] <andypugh> Why not just add MPGs and do the fast/slow in software?
[18:11:16] <enleth> a reverse retrofit if you will
[18:11:31] <enleth> for the heck of it I guess
[18:11:41] <enleth> that's how my bridgeport works and I like it
[18:11:54] <andypugh> did you see my Holbrook video further up?
[18:12:05] <andypugh> So far I am liking that setup.
[18:13:28] <andypugh> The knob on the apron with no handle is meant to control the MPG scales when I got the config sorted out.
[18:13:37] <andypugh> (and add a handle).
[18:14:03] <andypugh> it has a pushbutton feature too, effect to be determined.
[18:15:02] <enleth> it's not either/or, is it?
[18:15:25] <andypugh> Is what?
[18:15:37] <enleth> mechanical handwheels and MPGs
[18:16:12] <enleth> I just like the way I can switch the bridgeport to old school mechanical control at any time
[18:16:57] <andypugh> The Holbrook has no mechanical feeds any more. I worked hard to have them on my first lathe/mill conversion and never used them. Then made them optional on the millling maching and never used them, so decided not to bother on the Holbrook.
[18:17:37] <enleth> a preference thing I guess
[18:18:06] <enleth> it's 50/50 for me with the mill, often during a single job
[18:18:11] <andypugh> Of the three, the Holbrook has turned out to be the easiet to use in handle-twiddling mode, despite then not being mechanical.
[18:18:52] <Sync> andypugh: you need two small 50W servos and add force feedback
[18:19:06] <enleth> it does lack MPGs, though, and I might have been using them if they were available, instead of the handwheels
[18:19:44] <enleth> but with the only options I do have being handwheels and MDI, I use both
[18:20:33] <andypugh> One thing about the way I did the Holbrook is that I do get MPGs. Not so with the mill as I did the manual feeds by making the nuts rotate in mechanical mode, so the CNC PC doesn’t see them.
[18:20:33] <Duc_main> zlog
[18:21:14] <enleth> ORAC doesn't have MPGs either, only pushbutton jog, and if the control works, I'm not touching it anytime soon because I intend to *use* this lathe, not work on it, for now
[18:21:32] <Duc_main> enleth: I will try to get those pictures tonight if not tomorrow
[18:21:40] <enleth> but adding the handwheels seems straightforward enough
[18:21:41] <andypugh> Sync: Possibly simpler to wire hy_vfd.motor-current to electrodes attached somewhere sensitive.
[18:21:52] <Sync> haha
[18:22:16] <enleth> or a cell phone vibration alarm motor
[18:22:44] <Sync> I wonder how realistic such a setup would feel
[18:22:57] <enleth> Duc_main: sure, thanks a lot.
[18:23:32] <enleth> Sync: or use a PlayStation pad with rumble
[18:23:48] <Sync> nah, that doesn't give you the fine torque feedback like cranking
[18:27:08] <andypugh> Pushing the 22mm drill through the work today I was wondering whether even my 1kW Z-servo would have the heft for the same job. I as using the tailstock and twisting hard. Interestingly I was monitoring spindle current. It was running 2A at idle and 2.4A when I really wound the drill in hard.
[18:27:58] <andypugh> (peak motor current is set to 11A)
[18:30:22] <enleth> oh, and it does make sense to add those handwheels if you consider that the compound slide and tailstock on the ORAC are manual anyway
[18:31:45] <andypugh> There is a compound slide? Expunge it! It makes no sense on a CNC and costs you rigidity.
[18:32:33] <Sync> ^
[18:32:36] <enleth> it's very easy to take off
[18:33:10] <enleth> an ATC can be mounted in its place, but the lathe I bought did not come with one
[18:33:16] <andypugh> (Again I point you at my earlier video where the compound has been reolaced by a solid block, bit one with an eccentric aspect so that you can still cahnge the relative location of the tool and cross slide as needed)
[18:33:36] <enleth> yeah, I'm watching it
[18:34:02] <enleth> I might add a part like this
[18:34:09] <andypugh> Hey, I did well there, only a bit more than 1 typo per line
[18:35:11] <enleth> still, I'm going to be very happy with this lathe if I manage to turn it into a decent manual/CNC hybrid that doesn't compromise either feature set
[18:35:42] <enleth> call it being fucking weird, I'm still going to enjoy it
[18:39:53] <enleth> oh, and I just realized that adding an MPG to the ORAC would be quite simple - all it takes is to send pulses in parallel with the original axis increment pushbuttons
[18:40:10] <enleth> so that's on the TODO list too, I suppose
[18:47:38] <Frank_7> anyone knows the difference between open collector and line driver circuits for servodriver? cant find much, or please direct me where to look for,
[18:47:39] <Frank_7> http://imgur.com/S9WRpxA
[18:48:15] <Frank_7> thats what the spec sheet says, 0 explanation
[18:49:28] <enleth> Frank_7: open collector shorts to ground or floats
[18:49:39] <enleth> line driver shorts to Vcc or floats
[18:49:56] <enleth> the third type is push-pull, which never floats, it's either ground or Vcc
[18:50:54] <enleth> pull-up or pull-down resistors can be used with open collector or line driver respectively to avoid a floating signal
[18:51:24] <Frank_7> and what do i want? i need to make a circuit for every i/o on the driveR????
[18:52:03] <enleth> depends on what you're interfacing it with
[18:52:04] <Frank_7> line drivers says its better (less time widths, more input frequency)
[18:52:15] <Frank_7> mesa cards 7i76
[18:53:12] <Frank_7> The 7I76 provides five channels of step/dir interface with buffered 5V differential
[18:53:12] <Frank_7> signal pairs
[18:53:18] <enleth> 7i76 has sourcing outputs (that's line driver) and sinking inputs
[18:53:41] <Frank_7> -.-
[18:53:51] <enleth> let me see the step/dir interface spec
[18:54:45] <Frank_7> says, outputs are sourcing type, and inputs sinking type
[18:55:09] <enleth> >Step motor drives with single ended inputs
[18:55:09] <enleth> connect to just one of the STEP and DIR signal outputs, that is either the STEP+/DIR+ or
[18:55:12] <enleth> STEP-/DIR- signals, with the unused signals left unconnected at the 7I76. The input
[18:55:15] <enleth> common signal on drives with single ended inputs connects to the 7I76s GND or 5VP pins
[18:55:18] <enleth> depending on the drive type.
[18:55:20] <enleth> that's the important part
[18:55:30] <enleth> so it will support either input type on the drive
[18:55:35] <enleth> either of 3 possible
[18:55:46] <enleth> (differential, sinking, sourcing)
[18:56:32] <Frank_7> ****thinking****
[18:57:20] <enleth> the schematics you linked to are extremely chinese but I guess you want STEP+ and DIR+
[18:57:58] <Frank_7> yes, this spec sheet is so #!@&
[18:58:30] <enleth> which pin numbers are step and dir on the drive?
[18:59:09] <Frank_7> wired thing is that on the sheet it says command pulse input mode, Diferential input, meaning both step dir signals right?
[18:59:13] <Frank_7> +/-
[18:59:20] <Frank_7> 20 21 22 23
[18:59:39] <enleth> ah, so it does have two pins dedicated to step and two dedicated to dir?
[18:59:49] <Frank_7> yes
[19:00:01] <enleth> ok, the image suggested a shared ground
[19:00:09] <Frank_7> open collector would be 1 step 1 dir right?
[19:00:45] <enleth> if you have a drive equipped with differential inputs and a Mesa card with differential outputs, just wire them together
[19:01:31] <enleth> those inputs are handled by optocouplers anyway, they do indeed work in either of the 3 possible configurations
[19:01:35] <Frank_7> okey,
[19:01:43] <Frank_7> no explosion then?
[19:01:50] <enleth> very unlikely
[19:02:16] <Frank_7> hehehe
[19:05:11] <Frank_7> thanks enleth,
[19:05:21] <enleth> no problem
[19:06:14] <enleth> oh, actually those inputs are not optocoupled if the schematic is right, but that doesn't change anything here, just wire them together
[19:09:18] <Frank_7> chinese translation says: 1 inputs each
[19:09:19] <Frank_7> Both line driver interface and open collector interface supported using optocouple
[19:09:19] <Frank_7> r input
[19:09:37] <Frank_7> on pulse signal input
[19:10:19] <enleth> so maybe the schematic is inaccurate
[19:10:28] <enleth> you'll never know until you try
[19:13:48] <arauchfuss> enleth: got my 7i76 today.
[19:14:03] <enleth> nice
[19:14:52] <Frank_7> with 5i25?
[19:14:55] <Frank_7> :D
[19:15:03] <arauchfuss> going to have to make a new PCB for my drivers
[19:15:06] <arauchfuss> yeah
[19:15:20] <arauchfuss> already had the 5i25
[19:15:41] <arauchfuss> but I could not use it safely with my mx4660
[19:15:45] <enleth> my progress with 7i77 has been blocked by the encoders that turned out to be sin/cos instead of quadrature but hopefully I'll have an interpolator worked out soon
[19:17:19] <zeeshan> enleth: which interpolator did you get
[19:17:57] <arauchfuss> those the heidenhains?
[19:18:34] <enleth> zeeshan: trying to make my own based on the integrated interpolators in the TNC131 and Duc_main's EXE 602
[19:18:49] <zeeshan> why
[19:18:52] <Duc_main> why
[19:19:00] <zeeshan> theyre like 50$
[19:19:13] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Heidenhain-Encoder-PCB-262417-IDP101-/281387324911?hash=item4183fdd5ef:g:Rs0AAOSwKPNTxo2r
[19:19:15] <zeeshan> okay gone up a bit
[19:19:17] <enleth> the prototype sort of worked but input stage was a bit unstable
[19:19:29] <enleth> $50 times 3
[19:19:47] <Duc_main> is the cirucit going to have 3 different circuits or 4
[19:19:57] <enleth> and I liked the excuse to dust off my opamp skills
[19:20:35] <enleth> Duc_main: what?
[19:37:56] <Duc_main> enleth: ok these files are huge installing the nikon file convertor
[19:38:08] <enleth> you took RAWs?
[19:38:37] <enleth> well, at least they're not going to lack in details
[19:39:16] <Duc_main> camera outputs in raw
[19:39:24] <Duc_main> they are 20 megs each
[19:43:19] <Duc_main> enleth: do you have a location to dump something this big or should I cut them down some
[19:45:31] <Frank_7> enleth: sorry to bother again, but i find a page with some info on the sourcing/sinking interface, when an output sources, the input has to sink right? so if the mesa card is source output, then the driver should be in open collector input, right? or im wrong?
[19:45:54] <Frank_7> found*
[19:48:30] <enleth> Duc_main: I'll try to figure out something tomorrow, hang on to those files for now
[19:48:45] <Duc_main> how large can you send over gmail
[19:48:54] <enleth> 20M total I think
[19:49:09] <enleth> AFAIR my mail server will take whatever
[19:49:42] <Duc_main> 2 files at a time
[19:49:55] <PCW> Frank_7: The Field I/O outputs are sourcing only (but those are not used for step/dir)
[19:50:20] <Duc_main> enleth@enleth.com?
[19:50:21] <Frank_7> crap
[19:50:28] <Frank_7> was reading another thing
[19:50:32] <enleth> Duc_main: enleth@hackerspace.pl
[19:50:49] <enleth> enleth@enleth.com is actually Google Apps
[19:51:44] <enleth> Frank_7: if those inputs on your drive are optoisolated, they're just a LED, and that's going to accept any kind of output if wired properly
[19:51:52] <andypugh> enleth: Did you see the pictures of the Bletchley Bombe? Are you aware that it was the Poles who thought up the idea of that?
[19:52:27] <enleth> andypugh: yeah, it's a semi-well-known fact over here
[19:52:29] <Frank_7> okey
[19:52:53] <Frank_7> im getting closer to figuring out :) sorry for beeing a pain in the ass
[19:52:54] <andypugh> Should be better-known over here, to be fairer.
[19:53:13] <enleth> andypugh: that's what people here tend to say, yeah
[19:53:26] <Duc_main> file bombs on way
[19:54:15] <andypugh> Of course Hollywood Truth is that the US broke Enigma…
[19:54:21] <enleth> Frank_7: if you only had single-ended outputs, you'd wire one of the input pins on the drive to ground or Vcc and the other to the output. but you've got differential on both sides so you can wire them directly, the mesa's output will drive both lines
[19:55:18] <Duc_main> andypugh: thought it was the british that did
[19:56:16] <Frank_7> yes, i think i am overthinking this,
[19:56:23] <enleth> andypugh: another case of the same was the guy who invented the first man-portable mine detectors, also a Polish engineer working in Britain
[19:56:26] <andypugh> Duc_main: No, the US captured a submarine and stole an Enigma and the code books, it’s in a film, it must be true. :-)
[19:56:47] <Frank_7> eitherway i will call the seller, that at the same time they use them, just to be 100% sure ill give em a call, they are friendly
[19:56:56] <enleth> first *actually* man-portable that is
[19:57:16] <Duc_main> andypugh: LOL
[19:58:09] <andypugh> U-571…The film was financially successful and generally well-received by critics in the USA[1] … The fictitious plot attracted substantial criticism since, in reality, it was British personnel from HMS Bulldog who first captured a naval Enigma machine (from U-110 in the North Atlantic in May 1941), months before the United States had even entered the war. The anger over the inaccuracies even reached the British
[19:58:09] <andypugh> Parliament, where Prime Minister Tony Blair stated that the film was an "affront" to British sailors.[3]
[19:59:09] <Duc_main> interesting
[19:59:39] <Duc_main> I always figure hollywood is 10% telling the truth
[19:59:46] <enleth> Duc_main: the pictures are perfect, thanks
[19:59:57] <andypugh> An earlier military Enigma machine had been captured by Polish Intelligence in 1928; the Polish Cipher Bureau broke the Enigma code in 1932 and gave their findings to Britain and France in 1939, just before the German invasion of Poland.[7]
[20:00:33] <Duc_main> enleth: Do you need any bigger LOL
[20:03:23] <enleth> Duc_main: I could use just one more, looking from the input side towards the output side, at a slight angle - like DSC_0561.JPG but rotate the board 90deg counterclockwise. I need a peek under the resistor to the left of the "10nK 63" yellow capacitor
[20:04:17] <enleth> reverse engineering a board remotely is loads of fun
[20:11:56] <enleth> andypugh: that mine detector I mentioned: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_mine_detector
[20:13:13] <andypugh> FWIW I had heard of the man and his detector. He may have saved more lives than anyone other than Jenner and Fleming.
[20:13:59] <Duc_main> enleth: a kitten makes it difficult to take pictures
[20:14:29] <enleth> Duc_main: did it sit on the board?
[20:14:41] <Duc_main> tried to and rub against camera
[20:17:49] <andypugh> XXCoder: I added captions to my latest video, but they came out wierd for me. How do they look to you? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woU927Tqoo8
[20:20:00] <skunkworks__> andypugh, that is a beautiful conversion
[20:41:22] <Duc_main> not sure I could cram anymore wires on the cam switch for my machine
[21:30:03] <LeelooMinai> Hmm
[21:30:55] <LeelooMinai> The (Chinese) rail blocks - you know how they have two holes for grease (I assume) with set screws?
[21:31:23] <LeelooMinai> I looked into mine and, well, there's nothing there - shouldn't there be grease inside?
[21:39:47] <djdelorie> could be for grease, could be for oil, could be for adding more bearings...
[21:41:21] <LeelooMinai> Those are "typical" chinese SBR20 blocks, similar to these: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/4pcs-lot-Free-shipping-SBR12UU-12mm-Linear-Ball-Bearing-Block-CNC-Router-SBR12-linear-guide/2020342073.html
[21:41:36] <LeelooMinai> I think there's not enough space there for ball bearings.
[21:42:56] <BeachBumPete> andypugh That is looking pretty sweet man. Congrats on another successful conversion!