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[02:28:00] <Deejay> moin
[07:19:59] <_methods> http://edition.cnn.com/2016/05/27/asia/thailand-snake-toilet/?sr=fbcnni052716thailand-snake-toilet1119AMStoryLink&linkId=24930630
[07:20:02] <_methods> yoikes
[07:20:30] <_methods> the old python in the toilet prank
[07:32:42] <Polymorphism> this stupid wiring is overwhelming me
[07:32:57] <Polymorphism> because I can't visualize it and in my own mind its grown so complex
[07:34:05] <pink_vampire> hi Polymorphism
[07:34:08] <Polymorphism> the wire is rather expensive so I don't want to order too much
[07:34:10] <Polymorphism> hello pink_vampire
[07:34:55] <pink_vampire> how is your bank account?
[07:35:21] <Polymorphism> it stings a bit, but not bnad
[07:35:34] <Polymorphism> I know its all going to be worth it =D
[07:37:44] <pink_vampire> did you get something?
[07:38:16] <Polymorphism> yes
[07:38:32] <Polymorphism> I bought the xzero raptor mini
[07:38:50] <Polymorphism> I'm sourcing a spindle colllet tools and wiring now
[07:41:36] <Polymorphism> http://www.cableorganizer.com/igus/cf10-tpe-control-cables/
[07:41:40] <Polymorphism> I'm looking at this for wire
[07:41:44] <Polymorphism> but its $$$ so I don't want to buy too much
[07:41:58] <Polymorphism> I need to know how many feet I'll need
[07:42:13] <Polymorphism> I was going to use the CF10 for steppers
[07:42:19] <Polymorphism> 24 awg 4 conductor
[07:42:26] <Polymorphism> and then maybe 14 awg 4 conductor for spindle
[07:42:29] <Polymorphism> not sure for limit switches....
[07:50:50] <pink_vampire> I'm not sure also.
[07:51:14] <pink_vampire> I need also cables for the therminsthors,
[07:51:37] <pink_vampire> and longer cable for the encodes
[07:53:52] <Polymorphism> can't go wrong with igus
[07:53:59] <Polymorphism> looks sooooo high quality
[07:54:06] <Polymorphism> if anyone knows a better source though, let me know
[07:54:07] <Polymorphism> I order tonight
[07:54:16] <Polymorphism> my machine is shipping and I don't want to be without cable when it arrives
[07:54:52] <pink_vampire> I'm think about getting cat6 or cat7 staranded cable, and use it for all the stuff
[07:55:02] <enleth> Polymorphism: I'm using just two wire sizes and 3 colors in my mill, plus some clip-on cable labels. the wire is whatever I found at a slightly more professional hardware store in the area.
[07:55:25] <enleth> if it's made of copper and insulation, it will do
[07:55:54] <pink_vampire> for your stuff even the cheap cables from lowes will going to do the job just fine.
[07:56:13] <enleth> the sizes are 1.0mm^2 annd 2.5mm^2
[07:56:43] <enleth> only the main power input circuit is wired with 4mm
[07:57:12] <Frank_2> exactly, its not like you will be using huge cables that create a big amount of electromagnetic radiation
[07:57:54] <enleth> Polymorphism: oh, and crimp-on wire ferrules. they really help make the wiring neat and tidy
[07:58:56] <enleth> you can use them to crimp wires together, even different sizes
[07:59:44] <enleth> normally you can't easily and safely put different wire sizes in a single screw terminal
[08:16:37] <Sync> Polymorphism: you don
[08:16:46] <Sync> 't absolutely need chainflex
[08:16:59] <Sync> you can just use regular shielded cable
[08:17:05] <Sync> it will not break in your life
[08:18:06] <jthornton> I used left over prox wire or what ever I had laying around
[08:18:20] <archivist> use flexible trunking, a lot cheaper than chain
[08:19:46] * SpeedEvil waves his flexible trunk.
[08:22:12] <Sync> archivist: chains are not really that expensive, but I meant chain rated cable
[08:22:16] <Sync> (igus chainflex)
[08:24:54] <archivist> this is what I use with standard wire
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Black-Spiral-Conduit-Split-Non-Split-Tube-Cable-Tidy-Trunking-/321759273599
[08:25:35] <archivist> no tight bends
[08:35:49] <Valen> We were going to use a bungie cord off the roof
[08:36:51] <Sync> I like the metal version of that archivist
[08:53:26] <jthornton> seems like there is some confusion about the nano i2c pins on the net and I'm still confused
[08:54:16] <jdh> what confusion?
[08:56:00] <jthornton> which pins are i2c, some say A4 A5 and some say D4 D5
[08:57:25] <jdh> does it use internal pullups on the i2c lines?
[08:59:21] <jthornton> I don't know
[09:04:00] <jthornton> if I plug the oled into A4 and A5 it locks up the scanner program... gotta run for now
[09:06:29] <jdh> try with external pullup
[09:44:57] <cpresser> jthornton: usually i2c has no internal pullups. because i2c needs stronger pullups
[09:45:21] <cpresser> depending on speed and stray-bus-capacitance one needs really strong pullups (1k @3v3)
[09:48:15] <JT-Shop> i2c works on the uno without a pullup, I wonder if the nano is different
[09:54:23] <jdh> are they on a D pin on uno?
[09:55:55] <JT-Shop> no, A4 and A5 on both, the D info is not correct
[10:09:20] <gregcnc> cnc crash extreme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMpUF2jybXo
[10:10:46] <gregcnc> might want to grip a little more material next time
[10:14:24] <_methods> oops
[10:15:07] <Jaimie> woah flying metal is no joke
[10:41:16] <cradek> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct9iPcYckxs
[10:44:46] <_methods> doh
[10:45:53] <gregcnc> the old man was telling my about a crash at work years back. week old rather large Mori with y axis. guy moved offest to turn jaws and proceeded to run the part
[10:47:05] <gregcnc> big part wedged between the chuck jaws and turret the turret bolts resulted in half the bolts with double pitch
[10:47:30] <_methods> hehe
[10:47:33] <gregcnc> out of commission for quite a while
[10:47:53] <_methods> lathe crashes suck ballz
[10:48:27] <_methods> with a mill you might lose 1 or 2 tools if it's bad
[10:48:39] <_methods> but i've seen lathes throw parts and wipe out every tool on a turret
[10:49:10] <_methods> rip live tooling stations off lol
[10:49:19] <gregcnc> ouch
[10:49:23] <_methods> yeah
[10:49:31] <_methods> i had one guy crack a turret
[10:49:40] <_methods> was running a 1-1/2" 880 drill
[10:49:40] <cradek> it looked like this guy nuked most or all of his gang tooling at once
[10:49:51] <cradek> it sorta wiped them all on the spindle
[10:49:54] <_methods> yeah he wiped that whole gang
[10:50:11] <gregcnc> nah it was just the plastic stock
[10:50:12] <_methods> great for your spindle lol
[10:52:45] <gregcnc> there was also one where someone forgot to set a rpm limit for huge part and it damn near came through the enclosure
[10:54:03] <_methods> heh i threw an 8" dia part like that one time
[10:54:22] <_methods> i didn't see the guy who had setup on the machine before me was doing some thin wall parts
[10:54:27] <_methods> and turned the chuck pressure down
[10:54:39] <_methods> luckily i'm anal about closing the door when i setup
[10:55:04] <gregcnc> platinum ore on the roadside?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5GPWJPLcHg
[10:55:11] <_methods> first tool to hit the part throws it out of the chuck and almost ripped the door off and i shit all over the floor lol
[10:55:43] <gregcnc> I bet. just he thought is scary
[10:56:02] <_methods> i had to sit down for awhile
[10:56:18] <_methods> it put a huge dent in the door
[10:56:23] <_methods> wiped out every tool on the turret
[10:56:42] <_methods> somehow nothing was knocked out of alignment
[10:57:26] <_methods> nothing on the machine that is
[10:57:38] <_methods> i had to redo all the tools on the turret of course
[10:57:53] <_methods> and get clean underwear
[11:09:06] <gregcnc> https://youtu.be/Pt3t4xy7Twc?t=8m48s
[11:15:33] <cradek> the drill bit was stronger than the spindle!?
[11:15:36] <_methods> lol
[11:17:42] <_methods> where were the crashes?
[11:22:53] <gregcnc> I liked the drill
[11:24:41] <cradek> probably a JT, not carefully mounted
[11:24:51] <gregcnc> that's what I figure
[11:29:51] <Polymorphism> I have a cable chain
[11:29:56] <Polymorphism> not sure what this trunking is
[11:30:22] <Polymorphism> so my alternative to the chainflex igus is just 16 strands of wire through a conduit?
[11:30:27] <Polymorphism> individual wires I mean
[11:32:33] <djdelorie> the drawbacks to individual wires are (1) improper shielding/pairing, and (2) keeping track of which is which
[11:34:14] <Polymorphism> true
[11:34:26] <Polymorphism> my machine is small enough it might make sense to just pay for the CF10
[11:35:02] <Polymorphism> color coded shielded all in one 4 conductor
[11:35:20] <Polymorphism> if a stepper is 2.0/phase how much does it draw total?
[11:35:33] <Polymorphism> trying to figure out what guage I need no matter what I go with
[11:35:50] <djdelorie> steppers typically have two phases, but each phase has its own wires anyway, so plan for 2A
[11:36:28] <djdelorie> keep stepper phase wires paired properly to reduce noise
[11:37:29] <djdelorie> note: wires are rated for the current they can handle before the insulation breaks down; in some cases you want a bigger gauge than required to avoid voltage droop due to resistive losses along the wire
[11:37:53] <djdelorie> steppers probably aren't one of those cases, unless you have a 1V 10A stepper ;-)
[11:40:07] <Polymorphism> http://www.leadshine.com/Editor/image/2013052222593141.gif
[11:40:09] <Polymorphism> I think this is my motor
[11:40:12] <Polymorphism> running at 48v
[11:41:02] <Polymorphism> the bottom one I mean
[11:41:07] <Polymorphism> 57hs22
[11:41:37] <Polymorphism> so am I looking at series?
[11:42:43] <Polymorphism> says 8 leads though...
[11:42:46] <Polymorphism> this is 4... hmm
[11:43:34] <djdelorie> if you only have 4 of the 8 leads, you need to figure out if they wired it in parallel or series; that will determine the amps per phase and thus wire gauge
[11:44:24] <Polymorphism> I'm thinking maybe thats not my motor. I'm going to find out which ones I'll have exactly so I can select the wire
[11:45:52] <jdh> heh, imagine months of this!
[11:45:59] <_methods> lol
[11:47:46] <Polymorphism> lol
[11:48:19] <Polymorphism> as soon as I get the model number I'm just going to figure out the current draw and size up by one guage for future proof
[11:48:34] <Polymorphism> then order the igus if its not too expensive, which it wont be if I only need 22-24 guage or so
[11:48:45] <Polymorphism> even 20
[11:49:21] <Polymorphism> is there a forumla to calculate required lenth?
[11:49:32] <jdh> and ps? and drivers? and vfd? and spindle? and bob? and...
[11:49:36] <djdelorie> length?
[11:49:49] <Polymorphism> jdh, ps + drivers are on the way with the motors
[11:49:56] <Polymorphism> vfd / spindle // transformer in my ebay cart
[11:50:02] <Polymorphism> same with collet and starter tools
[11:50:05] <Polymorphism> its just come down to wire for now
[11:50:08] <jdh> heh
[11:50:11] <jdh> uh huh
[11:50:12] <Polymorphism> I'll use the radial arm saw and make a crude wooden box
[11:50:13] <Polymorphism> to house it all
[11:50:21] <Polymorphism> then I'll later use the machine to make a nice control enclosure
[11:50:46] <Polymorphism> I can't wait to start making chips
[11:51:02] <djdelorie> history says you can...
[11:53:08] <Polymorphism> so one of the axis motors doesnt move
[11:53:10] <Polymorphism> and the other two do
[11:53:19] <Polymorphism> so one the cable only needs to be as long as the run from the controller to the machine
[11:53:38] <Jaimie> Do you need to be a company to order from igus Polymorphism? they don't have prices anywhere on their site
[11:53:46] <Polymorphism> http://www.cableorganizer.com/igus/cf10-tpe-control-cables/
[11:53:48] <Polymorphism> going to buy from here
[11:54:06] <djdelorie> wire is too cheap to worry about; buy a spool of it and be done with it
[11:54:09] <Polymorphism> www.cableorganizer.com/igus/cf9-tpe-control-cables/
[11:54:11] <Polymorphism> they have this too
[11:54:15] <Polymorphism> but the CF10 looks better
[11:54:48] <Polymorphism> this wire isnt that cheap
[11:54:52] <Polymorphism> I've budgeted $100 for wire
[11:54:55] <Polymorphism> if required
[11:55:17] <Polymorphism> for all limits, spindle, internal controller wiring, vfd, steppers
[11:56:09] <Polymorphism> assuming I can get away with 24awg for steppers that $1.96/foot
[11:57:12] <Polymorphism> 3 feet travel for x + z + however long I want the distance from the machine to controller
[11:57:17] <enleth> quite expensive
[11:57:19] <djdelorie> 18/4 might be cheaper per foot because it's more common than 24, check around
[11:57:19] <Polymorphism> say 4 feet
[11:57:21] <Polymorphism> it could add up
[11:57:31] <Polymorphism> 14 feet just for those 2
[11:57:35] <Polymorphism> $30
[11:57:41] <djdelorie> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwire-500-ft-18-4-Gray-Stranded-CL3R-Shielded-Security-Cable-57573044/202316270
[11:57:50] <Polymorphism> last axis doesnt move so maybe just 4 feet $8
[11:58:00] <Polymorphism> spindle needs more... 14awg maybe
[11:58:07] <Polymorphism> $5 per foot
[11:58:16] <Polymorphism> lets say 4 or 5 feet
[11:58:18] <gregcnc> this isn't spaceX
[11:58:21] <Polymorphism> $25
[11:58:23] <enleth> Polymorphism: oh, by the way, did you know you can print cable chains?
[11:58:34] <djdelorie> $0.30/ft
[11:58:34] <Polymorphism> enleth, I didnt think of that
[11:58:38] <Polymorphism> the chains are included anyway though
[11:58:41] <enleth> they come out rather nice
[11:58:49] <Polymorphism> djdelorie,
[11:58:49] <djdelorie> enleth: I've printed some, they're worth buying
[11:58:53] <Polymorphism> thats $150 though
[11:59:00] <Polymorphism> I'm only at $65 so far for superior cable
[11:59:05] <djdelorie> Poly: just pointing out that bulk common wire is cheap/foot
[11:59:09] <Polymorphism> true
[11:59:25] <djdelorie> and don't fall for the "superior cable" advertising
[11:59:53] <CaptHindsight> I started FDMing a cable chain back in 2013, it should done by next fall. Can't wait!
[12:00:15] <Polymorphism> lol
[12:02:11] <CaptHindsight> _methods: Bob and Ray Slow Talkers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qvrh73BVraE
[12:02:33] <_methods> hehe
[12:02:49] <Polymorphism> P = I^2R
[12:03:26] <Polymorphism> I = P / V....
[12:03:30] <djdelorie> that doesn't take into account power factor, though, unless you're using imaginary numbers
[12:03:33] <Polymorphism> so 1500w spindle / 220v
[12:03:46] <Polymorphism> no wait that6s all wrong
[12:04:24] <Polymorphism> oh missed a zero
[12:04:27] <Polymorphism> 6.8 amps
[12:04:28] <enleth> Polymorphism: other thing: I really seriously have a lot of moving stuff wired with cheap crap and it works just fine
[12:04:44] <Polymorphism> I just dont want to run into interference issues I've heard ab out
[12:04:44] <enleth> it's just wire
[12:04:48] <Polymorphism> or have my cables wwear out
[12:04:52] <Polymorphism> so if its only a little bit more now
[12:04:56] <djdelorie> IMHO as long as the wire is stranded and the cable is waterproof, anything will do
[12:05:11] <Polymorphism> I still need to calculate guage either way
[12:05:15] <Polymorphism> whether I go cheap or fancy
[12:05:16] <djdelorie> shielded is a bonus but ONLY if you properly ground the shield
[12:05:18] <enleth> Polymorphism: it's really more important how you lay it
[12:05:36] <Polymorphism> http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm
[12:05:38] <Polymorphism> on this chart when it says
[12:05:41] <enleth> Polymorphism: and how you terminate connections
[12:05:43] <Polymorphism> chassis wiring vs power xmission
[12:05:47] <Polymorphism> which shoudl I be looking at?
[12:05:49] <djdelorie> bigger gauge (smaller number) is always OK as long as the wire doesn't get too big or stiff to mechanically work
[12:06:12] <djdelorie> if you're going to be putting it inside a flammable wall, use the power transmission rating
[12:06:15] <Polymorphism> I wan't to deliver full current to my motors and not waste any as heat
[12:06:37] <djdelorie> if it's out in the open or in a metal enclosure, chassis wiring
[12:06:46] <Polymorphism> ok
[12:06:58] <djdelorie> you will ALWAYS waste some as heat. Bigger wire just means less waste, but never none
[12:07:14] <Polymorphism> according to that I could get away with 22 guage spindle wire for the 1500w spindle
[12:07:15] <Polymorphism> is that for real?
[12:07:22] <Polymorphism> that chart following chassis
[12:07:35] <Polymorphism> theoretical 6.8 amp draw at full powerr
[12:07:48] <djdelorie> that just means the wire's insulation won't fail if it's in free air and can be air-cooled by convection
[12:08:06] <djdelorie> because the spindle runs all the time at full power, I'd go with a heavier gauge
[12:08:29] <Polymorphism> maybe I can make a simple formula
[12:08:52] <djdelorie> the formulas are all simple, it's deciding what your application needs that's hard
[12:09:54] <enleth> Polymorphism:
http://i.imgur.com/sLWdoHb.jpg
[12:10:07] <enleth> couldn't find a better photo
[12:10:18] <enleth> but it conveys the idea
[12:10:34] <enleth> that's some of my electrical wiring
[12:10:45] <Polymorphism> DIN
[12:10:47] <enleth> note the wide, swooping loops
[12:10:57] <Polymorphism> yes
[12:11:21] <enleth> and ferrules with insulating sleeves at the ends of the wires when they enter screw terminals
[12:11:30] <djdelorie> for 7 amps on the spindle, assuming a 3 wire cable (brushless?) in the air, 10 ft or so, I'd go with 18 gauge, which is about what a power tool of that rating would use as a power cord
[12:12:09] <djdelorie> (power tools being single phase and spindles being 3 phase)
[12:13:24] <djdelorie> but that's based on math and wild guesses, I bet someone here has a story about wires catching fire...
[12:15:56] <Polymorphism> hmm
[12:16:20] <Polymorphism> you're saying truly, I could just use this
[12:16:21] <Polymorphism> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009EA80UY
[12:16:22] <Polymorphism> ?
[12:16:25] <Polymorphism> for the spindle + the motors
[12:17:27] <djdelorie> well, I'd pick something rated for outdoor use (waterproof) but yeah, that would work. Here's mine:
http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/img_2563.html
[12:18:09] <djdelorie> I run a peak 8 amps through mine, but mine are servos so the overall load is less
[12:18:14] <CaptHindsight> what! no cable tray or wire guide?
[12:18:33] <djdelorie> heh, no, and yes, that was a mistake :-)
[12:18:43] <gregcnc> I like mounting things right to kindling
[12:18:58] <djdelorie> I have a bit of a wire "curl" though:
http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/img_2566.html
[12:19:18] <Polymorphism> hmm, I see
[12:19:21] <djdelorie> I openly admit that my cnc machine is a great big hack, but it *works*
[12:19:47] <djdelorie> gregcnc: amusingly, wood screws rarely loosen due to vibration
[12:20:10] <djdelorie> the local high school built a combat robot with welded steel and plywood, and not one wood screw came loose
[12:20:19] <CaptHindsight> I order my enclosures with rodents already inside. Less chewing on the openings.
[12:20:38] <djdelorie> we have a cat infestation, so on rodent problems
[12:20:45] <djdelorie> s/on/no/
[12:20:52] <gregcnc> plus they start multiplying faster
[12:22:23] <CaptHindsight> Schrodinger's Enclosures - not just with cats
[12:24:01] <gregcnc> https://www.yahoo.com/news/could-3d-printing-replace-plaster-151909589.html
[12:25:34] <gregcnc> DIY casts?
[12:26:01] <djdelorie> suitable for DIY broken bones...
[12:26:38] <djdelorie> DIY prosthetics are becoming popular too
[12:26:52] <maxcnc> hi
[12:27:04] <djdelorie> I made a DIY bolt one weekend, took me hours...
[12:27:18] <gregcnc> with a file?
[12:27:43] <djdelorie> with a lathe. It was junk steel, had to be careful
[12:28:08] <gregcnc> Ø3" ?
[12:28:35] <CaptHindsight> lets say you fall down the stairs and break a femur, you set it yourself since you can't afford the $6k/year deductable on your health insurance, then you need a DIY cast
[12:29:04] <djdelorie> no, a 1.5" by 1/4-28 wide-head bolt to repair our couch, with matching low-profile nut, three sets
[12:29:28] <djdelorie> on this lathe:
http://www.delorie.com/photos/southbend-lathe/2011-08-12_14-19-27_211.html
[12:30:17] <gregcnc> manual threading takes some experience to get used to
[12:30:29] <djdelorie> yup
[12:30:51] <CaptHindsight> you 3d scan your thigh, 3d model a cast, slice and press start on the printer, and in 6-8 weeks the cast is done
[12:31:14] <djdelorie> the video specifically said 3 hours, not 6-8 weeks
[12:31:45] <gregcnc> three hours seems optimistic for something that size?
[12:31:56] * djdelorie recalls some youtube videos of CNC jobs that took over a week for a single run
[12:32:09] <CaptHindsight> takes 3 hours to print a mustache
[12:32:34] <djdelorie> your printer must be ancient, even mine is way faster than that
[12:33:00] <djdelorie> current print: 12"x8" airplane model for a science fair project, print time 5 hours.
[12:33:24] <CaptHindsight> easily printed with SLA in under an hour
[12:33:32] <djdelorie> I can't afford SLA
[12:33:50] <djdelorie> I *can* afford to wait 5 hours
[12:33:56] <maxcnc> djdelorie: lots of scale models redy made in the toystors
[12:34:01] <maxcnc> differne scales
[12:34:19] <djdelorie> I didn't provide the model, it's for a friend's son, he's doing something custom
[12:34:24] <djdelorie> I jsut offered to print it
[12:34:59] <djdelorie> turbulence comparison of various esoteric wing designs, or something like that
[12:35:30] <Polymorphism> my 3d printer is here today xD we will see if its any good
[12:35:55] <Polymorphism> back to endless wire decisions, bbl
[12:36:00] <djdelorie> start small and take your time learning how *not* to print things :-)
[12:36:03] <CaptHindsight> I've tried the injection molded mustaches but they tend to look silly and fall off
[12:36:24] <maxcnc> oh poly i think you ordered a raptor
[12:36:44] <_methods> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXn1g0xtUMk&feature=youtu.be
[12:36:48] <_methods> takin a mulligan on that hole
[12:37:07] <_methods> haha get next to it for perspective
[12:37:27] <CaptHindsight> that could make golf more exciting
[12:37:30] <JT-Shop> I wonder if I need to rethink how I handle offsets on the plasma and start using G54 offsets instead of G92 offsets
[12:37:50] <Tom_itx> i would
[12:37:54] <_methods> what are you using the g92's for?
[12:37:59] <Tom_itx> it's more common
[12:38:19] <_methods> you're using g92 for the whole part?
[12:38:35] <djdelorie> that reminds me, is there some online guide/tutorial to setting tool positions for lathes with gang toolholders?
[12:38:43] <JT-Shop> my touch off subroutine sets a G92 for X0Y0 at the start then sets the Z0 after the probe move
[12:38:44] <djdelorie> I got an idea for a strange project for the future...
[12:39:10] <JT-Shop> at the end I clear the G92
[12:39:30] <_methods> i rarely use g92's except for somethign very temporary
[12:40:04] <Tom_itx> why are you thinking about rethinking it?
[12:40:13] <maxcnc> http://foengarage.de/beet_3cm.jpg scale print
[12:40:15] <Tom_itx> something not working right?
[12:40:26] <maxcnc> 12min
[12:42:12] <Polymorphism> maxcnc, yes, I did
[12:42:36] <maxcnc> with 2010 or 1605
[12:43:24] <Polymorphism> max I'm not sure
[12:44:20] <maxcnc> ok you will fix it if you see to many steplosses on the system as ttests did
[12:44:37] <maxcnc> consider a timingbeld refit
[12:44:53] <maxcnc> no direct on 2,5Nm 370OZ
[12:45:16] <Polymorphism> "Ballscrew used are 0.000123 "
[12:45:19] <Polymorphism> thats all the info I have
[12:45:21] <Polymorphism> for right now
[12:45:28] <Polymorphism> its supposed to be a nice ballscrew
[12:45:54] <maxcnc> it will work for you for the first setup
[12:46:05] <Polymorphism> ok
[12:46:18] <Polymorphism> maxcnc, what guage wire do you recommend for nema 23 and also for 1500w ac spindle?
[12:46:36] <Polymorphism> I'm thinking about 20 guage for the steppers and 14 or 16for the spindle maybe
[12:46:57] <maxcnc> im not used to this as im in europ
[12:47:04] <Polymorphism> ah ok
[12:47:35] <Polymorphism> 1.63mm for spindle
[12:47:42] <Polymorphism> 0.812mm for steppers
[12:48:11] <Polymorphism> http://www.technick.net/public/code/cp_dpage.php?aiocp_dp=guide_awg_to_metric
[12:49:00] <Polymorphism> spindle is 220v 1500w I will run it from 220v VFD which is connected to 3000w 110v to 220v step up xformer
[12:49:10] <djdelorie> Polymorphism: my 3D printer's steppers are about 2A/phase and they use 22ga wire, but only a few feet of it
[12:49:25] <Polymorphism> my longest wire run might be 8 feet
[12:49:32] <Polymorphism> assuming full travel + 4 feet run to controller box
[12:49:34] <JT-Shop> well one thing using G92 Axis has no clue where to put the program so you get an error message each time you start... but I'll get the same thing with G54 I think
[12:49:36] <djdelorie> 22 might be find but I bet 18 is cheaper
[12:50:06] <djdelorie> and even if it's a little more $$$, it's cheap insurance
[12:50:40] <Polymorphism> ok, yeah I'd rather go slightly larger than uindersized
[12:50:47] <Polymorphism> that way if I upgraded my motors or something in the future
[12:50:51] <Polymorphism> I dont need to redo all the wire
[12:51:12] <gregcnc> what kind of errors do you get? i used G92 a long time ago and never had problems. I use G54 now
[12:51:17] <Polymorphism> since I haven't really skimped anywhere else I may go for the highest quality wire I can afford as soon as I choose the guage
[12:51:25] <Polymorphism> going to do more research///drink beer
[12:51:25] <Polymorphism> bbl
[12:51:25] <maxcnc> use oeilflex 110
[12:51:33] <Polymorphism> I'll check that out maxcnc
[12:51:53] <maxcnc> as you got wire lines
[12:52:01] <Polymorphism> maxcnc, what do you advise for the size?
[12:52:08] <maxcnc> energiekette
[12:52:10] <Polymorphism> maybe 2.8A/phase stepper not sure
[12:52:15] <Polymorphism> or 2.0
[12:52:21] <enleth> Polymorphism: I looked up the closest awg sizes and looks like I'm wiring control circuits with 17ga, and power /motors with 13ga
[12:52:36] <Polymorphism> enleth, wow, ok
[12:52:43] <Polymorphism> big wire
[12:52:53] <enleth> that includes power to 1.5kW servos
[12:53:01] <Polymorphism> ah ok
[12:53:22] <djdelorie> don't spend money on "quality" wire. "Quality" is a load of crap in wire advertising. As long as the insulation is rated for your use case and the gauge is high enough, all wire is essentially identical
[12:53:53] <Polymorphism> http://www.cableorganizer.com/igus/cf10-tpe-control-cables/
[12:53:58] <enleth> actually 2.5mmsq which is a bit less than 13ga
[12:53:58] <Polymorphism> why is the 18 guage cheaper than the 20?
[12:54:12] <djdelorie> economics. More people buy 18 so it's cheaper
[12:54:24] <CaptHindsight> enleth: it's difficult to find odd gauge wire sizes in the USA between 0 and 20
[12:54:34] <maxcnc> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Wire_Gauge
[12:54:56] <Polymorphism> looks like 18 it is for steppers then
[12:55:05] <CaptHindsight> even numbers are typically stocked
[12:55:11] <Polymorphism> its only .40 cents more per forot
[12:55:13] <Polymorphism> foot
[12:55:16] <Polymorphism> and I wont need *that* much
[12:55:19] <Polymorphism> vs 24 awg
[12:55:20] <maxcnc> awg 16
[12:55:37] <Polymorphism> that jumps to 4.64 per foot
[12:55:38] <djdelorie> is your wire gold plated and kissed by god or something? Wire should be cheap
[12:55:38] <Polymorphism> vs 2.40
[12:55:39] <Tom_itx> i order half sizes quite often
[12:55:41] <maxcnc> i use this at plasma at 75V 7A
[12:55:45] <Polymorphism> djdelorie, I linked it
[12:56:02] <maxcnc> for 6m = 18feet
[12:56:04] <Polymorphism> it looks l ike good stuff
[12:56:05] <CaptHindsight> Tom_itx: like 16.5 copper MTW?
[12:56:12] <Tom_itx> not copper
[12:56:15] <Tom_itx> steel wire
[12:56:30] <djdelorie> you do NOT need that level of quality
[12:56:32] <maxcnc> steel wire will not break
[12:56:33] <djdelorie> "quality"
[12:56:47] <Tom_itx> i think it uses a different gauge standard
[12:57:10] <maxcnc> energy chain will break standard HV
[12:57:12] <CaptHindsight> maxcnc: give it to a child
[12:57:26] <Polymorphism> well I haven't cheaped out on the rest odf the machine
[12:57:33] <Polymorphism> seems like it makes sense to get nice wire
[12:57:36] <djdelorie> nothing is truly child-proof, if my children are any example
[12:57:36] <Polymorphism> complete the package
[12:57:49] <djdelorie> you are wasting your money on "quality" wire
[12:57:58] <maxcnc> i thought you go for out of the box
[12:58:55] <maxcnc> today i greped 5 pc very old but realy good latency 5k
[12:59:52] <maxcnc> hetis 865gv-e
[13:00:19] <maxcnc> ms-7065
[13:01:01] <maxcnc> empty cmos bat non work Borrrr
[13:01:13] <maxcnc> no pay good stuff
[13:01:27] <maxcnc> 50cent etch for runing
[13:02:02] <maxcnc> people outside BYE
[13:02:09] <Polymorphism> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFMxWsqJWPw
[13:02:27] <Polymorphism> when the collant is splashing cables baking int ehs un and operating in freezing temps cranking out thousands of parts
[13:02:48] <djdelorie> you're still spending 10x what you need for your machine
[13:05:04] <Polymorphism> you're probably right
[13:05:16] <Polymorphism> if I can source it all IGUS chainflex under $100 though I'm doijng it
[13:05:29] <djdelorie> again, you're asking for advice and then ignoring it
[13:05:33] <Polymorphism> if I ever sell the machine or something the buyer would appericate the pro wiring
[13:05:47] <Polymorphism> well I was asking about guage more than specific wire at this point, no matter which I go with I need to size it right
[13:05:52] <djdelorie> buy the cheapest 18/4 stranded, shielded, outdoor rated wire you can find
[13:05:54] <Polymorphism> it sounds like 18 guage will work
[13:06:01] <Polymorphism> and for spindle, a little less clear
[13:06:11] <Polymorphism> but maybe 16 or 14 to be safe
[13:06:37] <gregcnc> NO! that cheap wire has only worked just fine for 10+ years in my machine
[13:07:18] <Polymorphism> I'm sure it will work
[13:07:22] <Polymorphism> I dont know if I could hjandle it
[13:07:25] <Polymorphism> looking at the cheap wire
[13:07:28] <Polymorphism> every time I look at my machine
[13:07:30] <Polymorphism> with the linear rails etc
[13:07:35] <Polymorphism> no joke
[13:07:37] <Polymorphism> but I will shop around
[13:07:40] <Polymorphism> I just really dont like white
[13:07:46] <djdelorie> rails make a difference. wire doesn't
[13:07:54] <Polymorphism> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BWSBTWM/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2
[13:07:56] <Polymorphism> cheap price though
[13:08:57] <Polymorphism> 24awg 12 conductor would work for the limits?
[13:09:04] <djdelorie> that would work, although I suggest shielded and outdoor rated, if you're going to use coolant
[13:09:12] <Polymorphism> and then I just strip a ton of insulation off at the machine end separate the wires and run them to the limits
[13:09:19] <djdelorie> indoor rated is probably OK but the price difference isn't much
[13:09:24] <Polymorphism> ok
[13:09:32] <Polymorphism> I may use coolant yes
[13:09:39] <Polymorphism> probably not flood thougyh
[13:09:42] <Polymorphism> something like fogbuster
[13:09:52] <djdelorie> I use stripped ribbon cable for limits, but something more "robust" might be useful just to avoid accidentally breaking it
[13:10:12] <djdelorie> telephone cable is very cheap and overkill for limits
[13:10:21] <Polymorphism> I already have 3 spools of that
[13:10:29] <Polymorphism> its white though
[13:10:34] <djdelorie> so paint it :-)
[13:10:46] <Polymorphism> how does that work
[13:10:49] <Polymorphism> you use one for all limits?
[13:10:50] <Polymorphism> one cable
[13:10:56] <Polymorphism> they all share ground
[13:11:01] <Polymorphism> and then just one wire per limit?
[13:11:02] <djdelorie> "in-wall rated" just means it won't produce toxins if it catches fire
[13:11:16] <Polymorphism> do you strip aweay the outer insulation
[13:11:20] <gregcnc> you use telephone wire too? on my limits too...
[13:11:20] <Polymorphism> and run the individual wires to each limit
[13:11:33] <djdelorie> I prefer running one cable per limit switch
[13:11:48] <Polymorphism> I understand, ok
[13:11:53] <djdelorie> the more you can keep the outer jacket intact, the better
[13:11:59] <enleth> a friend used patchcord-grade Cat5
[13:12:09] <enleth> it's stranded
[13:12:21] <djdelorie> cat5 should be solid
[13:12:27] <Polymorphism> I have lots of that
[13:12:39] <Polymorphism> enleth, they used one per limit?
[13:12:45] <Polymorphism> or they sepratated it at machine end
[13:12:52] <Polymorphism> and ran the single cable through the chain
[13:12:55] <Polymorphism> to the controller etc
[13:13:01] * Polymorphism goes to look for pictures
[13:13:20] <djdelorie> I use cat5 to run to each controller, but smaller bundles to each switch/motor
[13:13:31] <enleth> Polymorphism: he removed the outer insulation, ran individual twisted pairs to the limits and wrapped them in spiral cable wraps
[13:13:46] <gregcnc> I rewired some encoders with stranded CAT
[13:13:55] <enleth> it works well and looks neat
[13:14:05] <djdelorie> I wouldn't use solid cat5 for moving wires though, prefer stranded
[13:14:28] <enleth> djdelorie: thus patchcord-grade
[13:14:46] <djdelorie> yup. I have spools of wiring-grade which is all solid
[13:15:01] <enleth> that's crap for machine wiring
[13:15:15] <djdelorie> yup
[13:16:16] <djdelorie> btw, "oxygen-free" is marketing-speak for "we're charging you more"
[13:16:48] * Polymorphism will remember that
[13:18:50] <djdelorie> all copper wire is 99.9% pure oxygen-free, duh. It's also asbestos-free, low-calorie, non-allergenic, and non-magnetic.
[13:19:53] <_methods> gluten free?
[13:20:01] <djdelorie> that too :-)
[13:20:26] <enleth> the insulation is even organic. is it vegan and kosher, though?
[13:21:42] <djdelorie> no animals were harmed in the making of this cable...
[13:23:16] <CaptHindsight> gluten is what holds organic insulation together
[13:34:27] <Polymorphism> http://www.makergeeks.com/3dprfiimtepl.html
[13:34:31] <Polymorphism> oops wrong window =D
[13:43:08] <CaptHindsight> Thought for Today: systemd, unity, iTunes, Windows 10... We live in a world where mediocre aspies decide how other people should use their computers because they work in large footprint organizations that have no competent dictators.
[13:46:30] <djdelorie> Devuan - Debian without systemd
[13:57:26] <alex4nder> CaptHindsight: haha
[14:02:47] <roycroft> while i agree about much of the software being discussed, and while not a big fan/proponent of systemd, my strong impression is that systemd is primarily opposed by luddites who hate it just because it's different
[14:02:50] <roycroft> it works pretty well
[14:03:12] <roycroft> and i'll also qualify that i'm not one to opt for change for the sake of change
[14:03:39] <roycroft> i'm not running to convert my pre-systemd machines to using systemd
[14:03:50] <jdh> you don't need any long runnining pricesses
[14:03:51] <roycroft> but all my new jessie installs use systemd by default and i've had no problem with it
[14:04:18] <roycroft> nor has anyone i know who uses debian and has an open mind
[14:04:50] <jdh> assuming they don't use screen, tmux, etc
[14:05:12] <roycroft> i use screen constantly
[14:05:34] <roycroft> and haven't noticed any behavior/stability change when using it with systemd
[14:06:14] <roycroft> i have firewalls that drop ssh connections after a short idle period
[14:06:18] <roycroft> by intent
[14:06:33] <roycroft> and so i use screen to make it easy to reattach to sessions when that happens
[14:06:36] <djdelorie> not to start a religious war, but I've had to learn all the systemd stuff and it's mostly OK but *when* it doesn't do what you want, it's really hard to fix
[14:07:04] <roycroft> a valid criticism, djdelorie
[14:07:12] <roycroft> and i'm not by any means a systemd advocate
[14:07:21] <roycroft> i just don't get why so many people are so opposed to it
[14:07:34] <djdelorie> "it's really hard to fix" comes up more than you'd think
[14:07:50] <roycroft> i'm still not a fan of sysv init and runlevels
[14:07:58] <roycroft> and that stuff has been around since the '80s :)
[14:08:11] <djdelorie> you can't please everyone, it seems
[14:08:32] <roycroft> but when i deal with a sysv-ish machine, i know that i have to deal with sysv init and runlevels
[14:08:42] <roycroft> i say "oh well" and get the job done
[14:08:51] <djdelorie> I avoid gtk for the same reasons - if you use it the way people expect you to use it, fine. The first time you want to do something different, problems.
[14:08:55] <jdh> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=825394
[14:09:00] <CaptHindsight> https://linux.slashdot.org/story/16/05/29/212204/systemd-starts-killing-your-background-processes-by-default
[14:09:19] <roycroft> yet i've had screen sessions running for months
[14:09:36] <djdelorie> yeah, the first time a cnc machine crashes (the bad way) because of systemd, it will already be too late to stop it (systemd)
[14:09:59] <djdelorie> better than a cnc job stopping in the middle to upgrade Windows, I suppose ;-)
[14:10:08] <jdh> roycroft: update systemd
[14:10:35] <roycroft> hmm
[14:10:41] <roycroft> systemd changes a default setting in login.conf
[14:10:47] <roycroft> that doesn't sound "really hard to fix"
[14:11:17] <djdelorie> my case is: systemd unmounts things I manually mount if it doesn't agree with where I want to mount them
[14:11:35] <Lowridah> so flip the bit in the config and stop bellyaching
[14:11:41] <roycroft> i tend to just put my mounts in fstab
[14:11:47] <djdelorie> I couldn't find the bit to flip
[14:11:49] <roycroft> and that has never failed me
[14:11:57] <jdh> djdelorie: you are obviously doing it wrong
[14:12:07] <djdelorie> roycroft: most of mine are in there, but things like usb drives and such are too unpredictable
[14:12:14] <djdelorie> jdh: obviously :-)
[14:12:32] <roycroft> *nod*
[14:12:32] <djdelorie> but one could say: djdelorie: you are obviously doing it differently
[14:12:44] <roycroft> and all my debian machines are either dedicated servers or virtual machines
[14:12:51] <roycroft> i don't do temporary mounts much
[14:12:53] <djdelorie> doing things differently didn't used to be this difficult
[14:12:57] <roycroft> primarily when moving filesystems around
[14:13:09] <roycroft> but since i use lvm these days i rarely have to move filesystems around
[14:13:21] <djdelorie> I use lvm, now I move whole partitions around
[14:13:27] <jdh> I don't ever want things I am running to be killed
[14:13:27] <roycroft> i just start them out small and grow them as needed
[14:13:54] <djdelorie> my file server has had the disks upgraded three times so far, without rebooting...
[14:16:16] <roycroft> i don't like to reboot often
[14:16:21] <roycroft> rebooting means maintenance window
[14:16:24] <jdh> I got enthused last week and loaded a box with centos to replace a FC1
[14:16:27] <roycroft> maintenance window means i lose sleep
[14:16:32] <roycroft> i'm too old to lose sleep for work
[14:16:47] <roycroft> i wake up in the middle of the night to pee too often already :)
[14:16:50] <djdelorie> I reboot occasionally, for other reasons. Swapping disks is not one of those reasons :-)
[14:19:16] <roycroft> but do you reboot because you have to pee?
[14:19:59] <Tom_itx> ofcourse
[14:20:15] <djdelorie> last time I rebooted it was because the UPSs were almost under water... so yea, the house had to pee
[14:21:30] <jdh> I've been rebooting my work winbox for 10 mins
[14:21:47] <_methods> you can't rush perfection
[14:21:55] <Tom_itx> i fixed that issue with a faster pc and ssd
[14:32:50] <jdh> done!
[14:39:01] <CaptHindsight> is there a InotHeartSystemD channel?
[14:39:24] <djdelorie> ask on without-systemd.org ?
[14:39:38] <djdelorie> or systemd-free.org
[14:39:54] <djdelorie> or
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GNOME/GNOME_Without_systemd
[14:54:13] <Lowridah> how2beacarmudgeon
[15:07:39] <Frank_2> guys anyone knows what the heck is this machine? thanks :D
[15:07:40] <Frank_2> http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-612605441-fresadora-_JM
[15:08:03] <XXCoder> looks weird
[15:08:41] <Sync> it's basically what it says
[15:08:43] <Sync> it is a mill
[15:10:30] <Frank_2> but it has a rotary table looks like
[15:12:41] <Sync> looks kinda like a horizontal boring machine with a special attachment
[15:17:51] <cradek> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1090944145/pocket-nc-the-first-5-axis-cnc-mill-for-your-deskt > The machine runs LinuxCNC using the AXIS interface, you will not need Mach3.
[15:29:36] <Lowridah> all nema17
[15:29:41] <Lowridah> will that thing cut much?
[15:34:55] <XXCoder> according to site it can cut alum
[15:34:58] <XXCoder> so its pretty good
[15:35:41] <Tom_itx> .125 cutter
[15:37:38] <Sync> XXCoder: if you could hear what it sounds like doing that
[15:39:57] <XXCoder> rough? sloppy?
[15:40:28] <Sync> it chatters like mad
[15:44:19] <Lowridah> yea i just watched a video
[15:44:29] <Lowridah> on youtube, it chatters about as much as my shapeoko3
[15:45:15] <Lowridah> the price delta beteween it and a tormach makes the pocket nc seem weak imo
[15:46:05] <XXCoder> got link to specific tormach machine?
[15:46:20] <Lowridah> http://www.tormach.com/product-pcnc-440.html
[15:46:25] <Lowridah> fewer axises of course
[15:46:36] <XXCoder> hella bigger though
[15:46:44] <Lowridah> sure
[15:46:55] <Lowridah> if you use the pocket nc you'll want to enclose it though, that's for sure
[15:47:15] <Lowridah> so it's footprint economy is kinda a visual trick it hink
[15:47:20] <XXCoder> funnily its small enough you could enclose it using semi-transparent large storage box
[15:48:24] <Lowridah> one's also a known good machine with lots of existing users versus the other being a kickstarter
[16:11:46] <Deejay> gn8
[16:36:48] <Nick-Shop> Does halscope operate differently in current mode vs voltage mode?
[16:39:11] <PCW> no but current/voltage mode tuning are quite different
[16:41:53] <Nick-Shop> I'm set in current mode - any info on doing this?
[16:45:41] <Nick-Shop> can I use an encoder in voltage mode?
[16:47:29] <andypugh> I don’t understand the question
[16:51:01] <PCW> you need encoder feedback to linuxcnc in any mode (unless the drive supports position mode)
[16:53:03] <Nick-Shop> I'm using AMC 25A20 driver and can I run that in voltage mode with encoder and no tach?
[16:55:39] <PCW> sure
[16:58:34] <Nick-Shop> I gues I'll reset the drive and maybe halscope will operate in normal trigger.
[16:59:12] <andypugh> You probably just need to adjust the Halscope trigger criteria
[17:03:15] <Nick-Shop> not getting consistant results in halscope adjusting anything.
[17:04:13] <Nick-Shop> Would like to know what to trigger and how etc
[17:09:43] <PCW> I would trigger on velocity
[17:16:15] <Nick-Shop> encoder.00.velocity
[17:18:37] <PCW> I would trigger on commanded velocity for cleanliness and godliness
[17:19:19] <Nick-Shop> will try
[17:23:30] <Nick-Shop> pid.x.command?
[17:24:55] <Nick-Shop> worked 1 time and wont renew screen after that
[17:28:42] <PCW> X commanded velocity is something like axis.0.joint-vel-cmd
[17:34:26] <Nick-Shop> where should trigger level and pos sliders be
[17:38:15] <Nick-Shop> Seems to be triggering now for some reason
[17:41:38] <Nick-Shop> Hal capture
http://imgur.com/dG58C5H - is this any good?
[18:18:41] <PCW> look like yesterdays, needs FF1
[18:20:55] <PCW> you should be able to adjust the ferror trace almost flat (at 5Mil/div) with FF1
[18:23:00] <Duc> zlog
[18:38:10] <Nick001> <PCW> will try it out tomorrow- Thanks for the help.
[18:42:34] <jdh> I cut a part (slowly) out of 0.250 aluminum with my 6040 yesterday. took forever due to low DOC. when it was almost complete, I noticed I had used the wrong drawing.
[18:45:19] <JT-Shop> I wonder how long I've been running the BP without the way oil pump working...
[18:45:31] <JT-Shop> since I installed Touchy I'd bet
[18:52:06] <jdh> I don't think you can blame touchy for that.
[18:53:18] <JT-Shop> pebkc is the only excuse I have
[18:54:08] <JT-Shop> I'm just glad I found it looking for an example for someone on the forum
[20:29:25] <Frank_2> hey hey hey, one at a time please, i will answer everybody but one at a time!
[20:46:12] <CaptHindsight> we can has ice cream?
[20:56:28] <Duc> I want some
[21:00:28] <Frank_2> hey guys have you ever seen the learning modules from yasawaka?
[21:00:42] <Frank_2> looks nice
[21:07:07] <Duc> one day i will watch them all
[21:09:54] <Frank_2> oh i already started, gets me excited- and reading them
[21:19:28] <Duc> I need to first finish off the allen bradley training
[22:41:32] <alex4nder> it's funny.. I needed one additional mesa din rail adapter
[22:41:50] <alex4nder> I spent way more than $2.50 making one of them
[22:41:57] <alex4nder> but I guess I have it right now, rather than waiting for shipping
[23:40:39] <CaptHindsight> https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/made-in-China-print-head-epson_60458170690.html?spm=a2700.7724857.29.121.vJrprV
[23:40:52] <CaptHindsight> https://wholesaler.alibaba.com/product-detail/Mini-UV-Flatbed-Printer-Epson-L800_60378572163.html?spm=a2700.7724857.29.33.vJrprV
[23:41:08] <CaptHindsight> easily used as a cheap polyjet printer
