#linuxcnc | Logs for 2016-05-30

[00:01:12] <XXCoder> Elio is ending 50% bonus for reservation
[00:01:16] <XXCoder> too bad
[00:01:26] <XXCoder> glad I already reserved a while ago
[00:03:17] <XXCoder> https://ci6.googleusercontent.com/proxy/VVEmaqawkNwOHQ7OPOa2-IxzEG4VKRq5hP14H6GiQQp01AY-eq9VXbL4AqyT0eSm7y1KUlS-xi_6GiqxXvNGpXdybI4xRJPtlNS5ZhG9HstSGN72aicPhMgdtHxGraT8mQ2XUoQM_U1IT2XlGkGRJ5Bv-CPHXQ=s0-d-e1-ft#http://go.eliomotors.com/hs-fs/hubfs/Elio_Frame_at_Pilot_Center-07.jpg?t=1464231572622&width=550
[00:04:08] <XXCoder> weird it dont work. https://www.eliomotors.com/first-e-series-vehicles-taking-shape-at-pilot-center-elio-momentum/ if wanna see E1
[01:19:41] <CaptHindsight> https://youtu.be/30zO31Xwud8?t=37s turning a huge log on a wood lathe
[01:19:55] <XXCoder> will wtach once that video is done
[01:20:45] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEYwmSk0ZAg
[01:20:49] <XXCoder> funny
[01:21:15] <XXCoder> pretty amazing range for one 36v drill
[01:23:31] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: saw it before. yeah thats just insane
[01:23:57] <XXCoder> gonna love his expression when sroughing it
[02:32:23] <Deejay> moin
[02:34:20] <XXCoder> hey
[05:55:01] <latheguy> hello
[05:55:38] <latheguy> Joining IRC because there's not enough patience to lurk a forum :P
[05:57:53] <malcom2073> You'll find little faster responses here :-P
[05:59:00] <latheguy> If people have the patience to answer me, amirite?
[05:59:29] <malcom2073> The people who will likely answer are always here, it's the question askers that don't wait around long enough
[06:01:02] <XXCoder> yeah
[06:01:08] <XXCoder> records around 20 seconds lol
[06:12:40] <latheguy> means you give good answers then
[06:14:53] <Hawku> joins -> asks a question -> nobody answer in 20 seconds -> leave?
[06:14:57] <XXCoder> yeah
[06:15:20] <XXCoder> Hawku*
[07:04:14] <latheguy> Noob question: what actually is HAL?
[07:04:31] <jthornton> Hardware Abstract Layer
[07:04:42] <latheguy> a backend software? Libraries? a conceptual system?
[07:09:02] <__rob2> software that abstracts the underlying hardware. Most of the time so the same software interface is used for multiple different hardware
[07:10:29] <latheguy> Sort of a wrapper, then=
[07:10:30] <latheguy> ?
[07:10:36] <__rob2> like spinning hard disk vs flash drive etc. Totally different technology, but to you its a storage device in your pc.
[07:11:18] <__rob2> at some point the differences are factored out (the driver usually) and presented to the programmer as a device you can write files to
[07:12:03] <latheguy> I know I can edit the "costum.hal" file to do various things. Are the commands in that file what the frontend programs call to control a machine?
[07:12:27] <__rob2> ohhhh. not sure in terms of linuxcnc
[07:12:30] <__rob2> was talking generally
[07:13:22] <jthornton> hal files are read at startup
[07:13:44] <jthornton> they define the "connections" between components
[07:14:23] <latheguy> OK then.
[07:15:57] <latheguy> to clarify, for example, I happen to be working on modifying the M6Tx behaviour. That doesn't involve HAL files, right?
[07:16:32] <jthornton> using remap?
[07:17:35] <latheguy> That's something I'm reading from the docs, yes. But I was considering following the HAL tutorial, because it made sense HAL had something to do with it.
[07:18:38] <latheguy> It rather seems like, that tutorial enables me to open diagnost tools (HALscope, etc.) instead of manipulating routines or behaviour
[07:21:19] * jthornton wonders what "that tutorial" is among the millions out there...
[07:21:31] <latheguy> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/tutorial.html
[07:21:43] <latheguy> I told you it was from the Docs
[07:22:28] <jthornton> and another tutorial from the docs on hal http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/hal/basic-hal.html
[07:22:50] <latheguy> dayum
[07:23:12] <jthornton> the advanced hal tutorial is more to show how to use hal in stand alone examples
[07:26:05] <latheguy> FYI this is what I'm reading about remap: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/remap/remap.html
[07:26:51] <latheguy> remapping seems the way to go, right?
[07:28:07] <jthornton> to change the behavior of G code remap is the way to do this
[07:29:58] <latheguy> wilco
[07:49:30] <Polymorphism> anyone have a source for spindle wire (1500w) and stepper wire?
[07:51:40] <Sync> lappkabel
[08:08:07] * Polymorphism takes a look
[08:20:31] <Polymorphism> "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13872p-UynI" our nearest competitor is about 15 times as expensive" lol...
[08:25:55] <jthornton> crumb I can't find an eagle library for a 0.96" 128x64 I2C OLED
[08:26:21] <jthornton> do you just make one?
[08:26:52] <_methods> yep
[08:27:02] <_methods> plenty of tutorials on making eagle parts
[08:27:07] <_methods> it's pretty easy
[08:28:16] <_methods> that's the one good thing about eagle
[08:28:26] <_methods> there are plenty of libraries and tutorials out there
[08:28:36] <jthornton> looking now
[08:28:54] <jthornton> just did a sparkfun tut and eagle seems easy enough to use
[08:32:40] <Frank_2> sorry to bother guys, but i am quite a noob in electrical components, if i have 4 servo motors of 1kw each, and im looking for a transformer, i want a 4kw transformer? maybe 2 of 2kw? and do i need a safety factor? thanks.
[08:35:45] <Sync> if you expect all of your servos to run at full tilt at the same time you need a 4kVA or more transformer Frank_2
[08:35:52] <Sync> if you don't, then you can use a smaller one
[08:36:46] <Frank_2> funny thing, how do i know that, hehe thanks sync ill keep searching
[08:38:14] <latheguy> Usually motors will run at a lower power than the say on the label. The label is just the maximum power it can reliably take.
[08:38:49] <latheguy> with the magic smoke coming out, of course
[08:39:08] <Sync> well Frank_2, you are designing the machine, so you will probably have calculated the power demand from the drives
[08:42:40] <Frank_2> hehehehe
[08:42:43] <Frank_2> the magic smoke
[08:43:41] <Frank_2> i dont really know the exact power demand i will need, i am probably going to buy a 4kw transformer, as my motors are oversized anyway..
[08:43:55] <Frank_2> i didnt knew until 2 minutes ago that transformers were so expensive
[08:43:57] <Sync> just calculate what you need
[08:44:19] <Frank_2> here for a 4kw transformer they charge you 500 usd
[08:55:54] <latheguy> any power rating is OK if you can cryogenically refrigerate your device! ;)
[08:57:05] <latheguy> They used to say that transistors are the fastest fuses made by man. When under liquid nitrogen they become the coolest fuses
[09:00:16] <pcw_home> CNC axis drives typically are run at much less than full power
[09:00:18] <pcw_home> (they typically have low forces when moving fast and only use full torque at low speeds when supplying cutting forces)
[09:02:26] <unfy> *yawn* o/
[09:03:46] <unfy> was out of town for a bit, and been swamped. haven't had a chance to do anything more yet ._.
[09:03:55] <pcw_home> So servo power supplies are often quite a bit smaller than expected as the average power is low
[09:03:56] <pcw_home> (but they do need to supply the peak power for all drives for some period of time so you can use you maximum acceleration to rapids speeds)
[09:08:34] <FloppyDisk> Don't mean to spam, but Enco 25% off today: DS531 & Free UPS Shipping FF531. I just get excited by good deals. That deal is a 9x20 Lathe for $900 brand new to your door...
[09:09:28] <unfy> damn you
[09:09:45] <unfy> i shouldnt >_>
[09:09:52] <unfy> <_< but i want to
[09:16:04] <FloppyDisk> Actually, I want to as well, but the budget is pretty loud at the moment:-(
[09:17:34] <FloppyDisk> I wouldn't normally post something like that, but I had been shopping for some larger items and stumbled across the 'good' enco sales, only to miss ALL of them. I was unhappy about that, so now I share, maybe someone will be able to use it...
[09:18:14] <Valen> pcw_home: out of curiosity are there any motors you would recommend to pair with the 8i20's? cheap and cheerful style?
[09:25:21] <pcw_home> Any ~500W to 2KW BLDC servo should work
[09:26:05] <Valen> yeah, finding anything that comes close to matching the voltage output seems hard
[09:26:15] <Valen> feels bad to not use all of the available power lol
[09:26:43] <pcw_home> a 220VAC motor is standard
[09:26:56] <pcw_home> (~340 DC bus)
[09:27:47] <Valen> for the *expensive* motors lol
[09:27:54] <pcw_home> thats by far the most common voltage for 1KW range servos
[10:02:30] <t12_> http://www.hgpauction.com/auctions/83047/circor/
[10:40:57] <Roguish> JT- Shop: http://www.gizmag.com/brp-can-am-spyder-f3-turbo-concept-vehicle/41928/?li_source=LI&li_medium=default-widget
[10:53:51] <Enccapsulation> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mwmas6hFRQ
[11:11:26] <Enccapsulation> is er11 collet a mistake
[11:11:29] <Enccapsulation> cant find anything larger in 110v
[11:12:58] <enleth> well it does limit you to 7mm and below, no 8mm endmills for you. or whatever equivalent inch sizes.
[11:14:22] <enleth> incidentally, I think, a lot of small aux equipment like edge finders have 8mm shanks
[11:14:45] <enleth> that's 5/16" i think
[11:15:26] <enleth> but 1/4" will fit
[11:15:28] <Sync> I think that is one of those iso20 spindles
[11:15:55] <enleth> Enccapsulation: generally I'd try to go ER16, which is pretty reasonable even for much bigger machines
[11:16:27] <enleth> Enccapsulation: but depending on tool availability for 1/4" in the US, which is I presume you are, it might not be that bad
[11:17:08] <enleth> with most interesting stuff using 8mm or 10mm shanks in the metric tooling world, I'd definitely not go for ER11
[11:17:42] <enleth> but if the interesting stuff is available in 1/4" shanks instead of 5/16" and higher in the US, then ER11 will be manageable
[11:17:59] <gregcnc> what do you mean by interesting?
[11:18:00] <enleth> *which is where I presume you are
[11:18:23] <enleth> gregcnc: edge finders and other test/measurement stuff
[11:18:43] <enleth> countersinks/counterbores, which usually use a single shank dia for a range of sizes
[11:19:15] <enleth> basically everythig more complex than an ednmill, that tends to use specific shank sizes for a wider range of effective sizes
[11:19:25] <gregcnc> for fast spindles you generally want be running anything other than endmills
[11:19:34] <gregcnc> wont
[11:20:15] <enleth> I'm steering clear of high speed direct drive spindles, so no real experience on that here
[11:21:43] <gregcnc> i don't know how slow those spindles actually run so an edge finder might be out too
[11:22:24] <enleth> unless it's an electronic one?
[11:22:40] <gregcnc> ah yeah
[11:22:41] <enleth> they won't go all floppy-slappy on you at high speed
[11:23:19] <enleth> that is, if you accidentally turn the spindle on
[11:23:42] <enleth> I suppose they're not even meant for use with the spindle on
[11:24:10] <gregcnc> right you wouldn't run the spindle
[11:31:17] <enleth> Frank_2: if that's of any help, I've got the same problem right now - trying to size the new servo power supply somehow
[11:33:29] <enleth> Frank_2: the theoretical maximum power draw of all 3 servos at the same time would be close to 8kW in my case, but of course this doesn't make much sense, especially for Z, so I'm probably going to settle for a 3kW unregulated linear power supply and hope the servo drives will handle the voltage dipping somewhat under load
[11:34:05] <Frank_2> wow 8kw?
[11:34:09] <Frank_2> whats the load
[11:34:21] <Frank_2> i've just read the hole thing, i was away hehe
[11:34:39] <enleth> theoretical - as in, that's how much they could draw without burning up at maximum torque
[11:34:57] <enleth> never goign to happen, though
[11:35:01] <enleth> *going
[11:35:08] <Frank_2> i have 4 servo ac 220v 1kw, meaning 2 on the gantry, 1 z, 1y, and they are actually quite a bit overpowered for my needs,
[11:35:26] <enleth> at maximum torque, maintaining close to maximum speed, actually
[11:35:28] <Frank_2> ur on servos? 2.6kw each?
[11:35:41] <Frank_2> what are you moving
[11:36:07] <enleth> 3x SEM MT30H4-44 servos
[11:36:14] <enleth> on a CNC Bridgeport
[11:36:41] <Frank_2> here transformers ( isolation) are quite pricy, i am going to search around and ask people how hard it is to build one
[11:37:27] <Frank_2> nice stuff
[11:37:34] <enleth> I'm probably going to get a custom wound 3kW 400V to 95V toroid
[11:37:56] <enleth> 400V being the phase-to-phase voltage I have
[11:38:00] <Frank_2> however i believe that ours have way more newtons/meter
[11:38:14] <Frank_2> mine are 3.2nm constant 9nm for peaks
[11:39:17] <enleth> those SEMs are 2-4 Nm constant depending on cooling conditions, 10nM peak
[11:39:23] <enleth> *Nm
[11:39:47] <enleth> so it's in the same power range I think
[11:40:04] <enleth> 140VDC max, thus the 95VAC transformer I'm aiming for
[11:40:10] <Frank_2> mills (seems like) use less interpolation, meaning most of the time 1 or 2 motors are moving, im building a cnc router,
[11:40:22] <Frank_2> and now that i think about it , i wont be using the 4 of them all the time
[11:41:12] <Frank_2> so yeah, with a 3kw transformer 1:1 i should be ok
[11:41:28] <enleth> I'll be trying trochoidal paths, so having X and Y capable of full power at the same time would be nice
[11:41:38] <enleth> Z, not so much
[11:42:23] <Frank_2> i should make the math to how much power i will be needing thou
[11:42:55] <Frank_2> whats the max rpm those motors do
[11:43:52] <enleth> 3100 which would give me 7750mm/min, but right now the max I could get out of them without the control throwing fits about follow errors was 5000mm/min
[11:44:24] <enleth> I assume the current servo drive, a piece of late 70s SCR crap, is to blame
[11:45:30] <enleth> the axes themselves move super smooth - I can get the table, almost 200kg of iron, to chug along at a pretty scary speed *by hand* when I disengage the screw
[11:45:38] <enleth> like, by pushing on it from the side
[11:46:24] <enleth> it would glide on its own quite far on the oil film that forms in the scraped dovetails
[11:46:27] <Sync> not suprising as it is floating on oil
[11:46:32] <enleth> exactly
[11:47:08] <Sync> trying to convince rene-dev that he needs flow regulators in his lube system to actively float his ways
[11:47:30] <enleth> Y glides a bit less, being the table's mass plus 100kg or so more, but it's smooth enough too
[11:47:58] <enleth> like the bijur regulators?
[11:48:07] <enleth> they're dirt cheap
[11:48:28] <Sync> those are volume regulators
[11:48:44] <enleth> unless you're talking actual pressure oiling
[11:48:51] <Sync> yes, of course ;)
[11:49:07] <enleth> what kind of machine is that?
[11:49:08] <Sync> he has an actual hydraulic pump in there pushing lubeoil through the machine
[11:49:30] <Sync> old knuth machine
[11:49:45] <enleth> I mean, the 1.5ton bridgeport does well enough with periodic lubing from the bijur system
[11:49:53] <Sync> sure
[11:49:57] <enleth> it's scraped, though
[11:50:07] <Sync> so is every serious machine
[11:50:13] <enleth> scraped and chromed actually, and most of the chroming is still there
[11:50:20] <Sync> the idea is to increase stiffness
[11:50:50] <enleth> like, using the pressure as an extra gib in the ways?
[11:51:02] <Sync> yes
[11:51:15] <Sync> he has box section ways
[11:51:24] <Sync> with all three sides that contact on each side being lubed
[11:51:48] <enleth> ok, that might make sense with box ways
[11:51:49] <Sync> so if he forces in oil at a constant pressure (or flow, beause those regs are cheaper) the stiffness should increase
[11:52:28] <enleth> doesn't that go through oil supply like crazy?
[11:52:29] <Sync> https://www.yaskawa.com/pycprd/lookup/getdocument/jvgyvE5ZTUY_5CC1znzBofIE265ug7HqJV0Ku0kbNvo-4r0fmq6S4sSgD2faaBfo1sAJ3I5hISG3IJaIOzog744qCBqAZZHuw28Tq5WCCa7FDORk7O-63dAB7x8uW3QI
[11:55:12] <enleth> interesting read, thanks
[11:56:41] <enleth> I have the servos and drives already though, so I need to do the math kind of backwards now to see what I'm going to be capable of
[11:58:54] <Enccapsulation> wobbler edge finder works I think:?
[11:58:57] <Enccapsulation> enleth, yes usa
[11:59:17] <Enccapsulation> enleth, I will be routing aluminum control panels and making pcbs, but also some woodworking... so that worries me about small er11 collet
[11:59:25] <Enccapsulation> 1/4" does seem to have a decent amount of tools availsble
[11:59:50] <enleth> ah, dunno about woodworking tools in the US
[11:59:54] <enleth> here, they're mostly 8mm
[12:00:00] <enleth> so ER11 would be too small
[12:00:07] <enleth> like, the handheld wood router bits
[12:01:43] <enleth> you need to compare availability of 1/4" tooling relative to 5/16" and 3/8" (which is I think the biggest inch size an ER16 collet will take) and weigh it against the added cost of getting an ER16 spindle
[12:02:01] <Enccapsulation> the problem isnt really the cost
[12:02:08] <Enccapsulation> the cost is less even
[12:02:13] <Enccapsulation> the problem seems to be any spindle with an er16 or er20 collet is 220v
[12:02:24] <Enccapsulation> I need 110v
[12:02:44] <enleth> well, then your cost includes the cost of getting a 220V supply somehow
[12:02:54] <t12_> get stepup vfd?
[12:03:03] <enleth> that's one way to do this
[12:03:03] <Enccapsulation> would one of these $100 3000w 110 to 220v transformers on ebay work
[12:03:13] <enleth> quite possibly
[12:03:24] <enleth> but you have to see if your wiring will take it
[12:03:39] <enleth> maybe run a nice thick dedicated circuit from the junction box
[12:03:48] <enleth> with a separate breaker from the rest of the house
[12:03:57] <Enccapsulation> not sure how the landlord will feel about that
[12:04:07] <Enccapsulation> I'll investigate the wiring
[12:04:28] <Sync> well, I'd probably keep the tools below 1/4" anyway
[12:04:30] <Sync> and just go faster
[12:05:24] <Enccapsulation> if I wanted to face a large piece of wood I was worried I wouldnt be able to get a tool for that with the er11 collet
[12:05:41] <Enccapsulation> I need to see whats out there, I've been looking through some catalogs
[12:06:22] <Sync> you can just do it in multiple passes
[12:06:38] <Sync> although the cnc is probably not the right machine for that
[12:08:05] <Enccapsulation> "Using a transformer to bump 120 to 220 will draw more than twice the currents from the 110 as is used at the 220 output, and this then becomes a wire size issue."
[12:10:23] <Enccapsulation> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ELC-T-3000-3000Watt-Voltage-Converter-Transformer-Step-Up-Down-110V-220V-/131068336421
[12:10:26] <Enccapsulation> looks like this might do it
[12:13:16] <Enccapsulation> didnt want to have to buy this as well but oh well
[12:13:24] <Enccapsulation> looks like it will do the job, as confirmed by someone with a 2.2kw spindle
[12:13:28] <Enccapsulation> now I can get any size psindle
[12:13:36] <Enccapsulation> george says up to 3hp is good
[12:13:56] <Enccapsulation> 800w is probably fine as Loetmichel has noted, but its not much more money to go a bit bigger
[12:14:01] <Enccapsulation> so really either 1500w///2200w
[12:14:05] * Enccapsulation goes to research
[12:18:25] <Enccapsulation> is er20 too big?
[12:18:47] <Enccapsulation> enleth,
[12:19:00] <enleth> Doesn't make sense for this size machine
[12:19:37] <enleth> I'm using ER16 on a 1.5ton mill right now for light work and it's sufficient
[12:20:37] <enleth> I think it's the most versatile collet size unless you really need bigger tooling, which you don't
[12:21:08] <enleth> I mean, it's small enough to be fine for routers while not restricting you to tiny tools
[12:21:16] <enleth> but big enough to be useful on bigger machines
[12:21:55] <Enccapsulation> ok
[12:22:02] <Enccapsulation> I'll go for er16
[12:27:54] <CaptHindsight> will someone please build them a new motor http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-36401663
[12:29:32] <archivist> CaptHindsight, it does not mention if they dug the shed out properly to see if it was there
[12:30:43] <CaptHindsight> archivist: I wonder why the motor was removed in the first place.
[12:31:17] <enleth> could have just burned out
[12:31:42] <CaptHindsight> or cannibalized for some other shed project years ago
[12:32:08] <archivist> one can never know, perhaps the original owner of shed contents was fixing it, I know when I take something apart I keep the bits
[12:32:38] <CaptHindsight> it hard to imagine the original shed owner not knowing what it was
[12:32:40] <archivist> some shed explorer is going to be confused when I kick it
[12:33:05] <DaViruz> i keep the bits, then they get buried together with other rubble, then 8 years later i toss it bacause i've forgotten what it is
[12:33:05] <CaptHindsight> try to track down the shed
[12:33:23] <archivist> I have had stuff in parts for up to 20 years and put it back together
[12:33:47] <enleth> archivist: working from memory?
[12:34:29] <archivist> enleth, careful, I have boxes of bench scrapings, knowing something is in there
[12:37:16] <CaptHindsight> "Whetter and his colleagues are calling for people across the country to search their sheds and attics for the device, which looks like a small rugby ball with spindles poking out of either end."
[12:37:58] <CaptHindsight> slightly more info https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/may/29/nazi-coding-machine-lorenz-teleprinter-ebay
[12:38:54] <enleth> it would help if the photo included a readable namplate
[12:39:29] <CaptHindsight> better picture http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/rare-top-secret-nazi-coding-machine-bought-on-ebay-for-950-a7055431.html
[12:39:52] <Deejay> re
[12:39:53] <enleth> still no nameplate
[12:40:05] <CaptHindsight> yes, a nice clear closeup of the nameplate would make sense
[12:40:57] <enleth> sometimes I wonder how journalists survive common everyday challenges of life, most of them being a bunch of such utter dunces
[12:42:06] <archivist> I have a measuring instrument, here that lived in the scrapings box, pics or it didnt happen http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=dorman+instrument
[12:42:19] <CaptHindsight> "If I find the motor they are looking for, they can have it for, say, fifty thousand quid ? That should wipe the smile off their faces."
[12:42:34] <archivist> measures inside and outside dia
[12:43:40] <CaptHindsight> enleth: or the general population, I don't know how they get passed eating and pooping
[12:44:28] <CaptHindsight> driving in urban areas lately feels very unsafe
[12:45:12] <CaptHindsight> I'm not sure what they have preform to pass the license exam
[12:45:52] <archivist> nothing
[12:46:03] <CaptHindsight> anti-journalism
[12:46:33] <CaptHindsight> they seem to have difficulty with just cut-n-paste
[12:50:29] <CaptHindsight> more pics but only the name plate for the device up close http://www.zdnet.com/pictures/hitlers-unbreakable-encryption-machine-and-the-bletchley-park-machines-which-broke-the-code/
[12:57:04] <maxcnc> hi from a real wet SW germany
[12:57:17] <maxcnc> rain hail thunder all included
[12:57:29] <maxcnc> happy memorial to the USA
[13:24:48] <CaptHindsight> maxcnc: you wouldn't happen to have a spare motor for this in your shed? http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/rare-top-secret-nazi-coding-machine-bought-on-ebay-for-950-a7055431.html
[13:35:06] <maxcnc> ;-)
[13:48:30] <maxcnc> BYE
[14:50:16] <jrf> for machines using servo motors and all hal components running in the servo thread. Is it necessary to have a base thread?
[15:16:08] <cradek> jrf: nope, not necessary
[15:17:46] <Enccapsulation> does it make sense to purchase a collet set or should I get collets for each tool as I buy them
[15:18:28] <XXCoder> set is better
[15:18:35] <XXCoder> higher quality ones better
[15:18:50] <Enccapsulation> I also see metric vs imperial, should I just pick one or the other?
[15:19:00] <Enccapsulation> for both tools and collets
[15:19:13] <XXCoder> what standard is you using for parts?
[15:19:19] <XXCoder> and what is machine set at?
[15:19:29] <cradek> what kind of collets do your machines use?
[15:19:37] <Enccapsulation> I like to work in metric in cad
[15:20:05] <Enccapsulation> cradek, er16 collet
[15:20:25] <XXCoder> Enccapsulation: then use mm collets
[15:20:50] <XXCoder> mm tools is easier to input too
[15:21:22] <XXCoder> honestly it dont matter all that much, can convert either way but like all same units
[15:22:36] <Frank_2> guys, i've been trying to find an answer but failed, i cant really undersatnd if i do need an isolation transformer for my cabinet (4servos 1kw each ac 220v) or not, and if i do, should i ground the cabinet? thanks...
[15:23:26] <Enccapsulation> ok
[15:24:22] <gregcnc> serious machine build https://www.instagram.com/p/BGCn_ieurxW/
[15:25:39] <XXCoder> interesting
[15:26:47] <FinboySlick> If one of those guys is Chen, he's going to lie on the spec sheet.
[15:27:04] <XXCoder> and who is chen?
[15:27:16] <FinboySlick> The guy who inspected my mill.
[15:28:22] <gregcnc> oh he isn't building it, some place in China it looks like
[15:32:01] <enleth> Enccapsulation: to be honest, imperial and metric collet sizes overlap so much that you can use either for either tooling in a pinch
[15:32:30] <enleth> Enccapsulation: just be sure the shank size is within the size range for a particular collet
[15:32:47] <XXCoder> enleth: good mm set covers all though
[15:33:11] <XXCoder> I have 1 1.5 2 2.5 so on mm collets
[15:33:12] <dioz> i'm in toronto
[15:33:14] <enleth> Enccapsulation: in practice, you'll be able to chuck any inch sized tool with some collet from a metric set, and any metric tool with some collet from an inch set
[15:33:15] <dioz> okay?
[15:33:15] <gregcnc> The best grip is when the nominal size matches shank size.
[15:33:30] <dioz> the six
[15:33:32] <dioz> you feel me?
[15:33:38] <enleth> gregcnc: not that it matters much on a light router
[15:33:45] <XXCoder> dioz: and?
[15:34:12] <gregcnc> but i have collets marked 1/4" that aren't 1/4" in there relaxed state.
[15:34:14] <XXCoder> I dont see how your statements apply to current discussion
[15:34:27] <dioz> are hydraulic motors better than hydraulic cylinders?
[15:34:36] <gregcnc> it does when you have two wrneches in your hands trying to hold the endmill in while tightening it.
[15:34:54] <XXCoder> heh what I usually do is insert and lightly hold collet. if tool can still be turned by other hand its too loose
[15:34:57] <dioz> i mean is a gear and pully system better than a hydraulic cylinder setup?
[15:35:09] <XXCoder> otherwise its okay
[15:35:38] <gregcnc> when the collet is the right size a little twist on the nut holds the collet
[15:35:38] <dioz> i need to know all the answers
[15:36:08] <dioz> i see lots of motherfuckers using gears and pullys
[15:36:22] <dioz> but i wonder why i don't see no hydraulic cylinders/arms
[15:36:44] <XXCoder> who are you talking to dioz
[15:36:50] <dioz> just talking in general
[15:36:59] <dioz> just talkin it out
[15:37:04] <dioz> like on the wheel
[15:37:24] <enleth> dioz: if you need to know all the answers then go read all the books or something
[15:37:38] <dioz> fuck i don't even know which books to start reading
[15:37:39] <XXCoder> machinist college, then engineering
[15:37:40] <dioz> there's so many books
[15:37:45] <enleth> dioz: all of them
[15:37:48] <JT-Shop> just got back from a 200 mile ride for a butterscotch milkshake and a deep fried hotdog
[15:38:01] <dioz> i bet the hotdog is cold as fuck
[15:38:07] <XXCoder> JT-Shop: damn you must be in nowhere
[15:38:09] <dioz> and the milkshake is just milk
[15:38:38] <JT-Shop> well we did eat at the Dairy Shack
[15:38:41] <XXCoder> I can literally walk to place to get that. I can also walk to ocean lol
[15:38:41] <dioz> machinist college seems like a waste of time donut?
[15:38:49] <JT-Shop> 125 miles there 75 back
[15:39:17] <JT-Shop> I also saw almost no cars the whole way...
[15:39:33] <XXCoder> youre only not sane one? (kidding)
[15:40:57] <JT-Shop> I could get a hotdog and shake in town but you miss out on 200 miles of country roads and twistys
[15:41:09] <Enccapsulation> why are these chinese tools 1/4" shank
[15:41:24] <dioz> you know what they say about small hands don't you?
[15:41:34] <dioz> small shanks
[15:41:36] <dioz> *shrug*
[15:42:07] <dioz> i'mma go down to the docks and hit a bucket of balls
[15:47:54] <Enccapsulation> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Precision-12-PCS-1-32-3-8-ER16-ER-16-Collects-Set-With-1-8-3-16-1-4-/141981253806
[15:47:59] <Enccapsulation> here is what I'm considering
[15:49:20] <Enccapsulation> can I work in cad in metric
[15:49:28] <malcom2073> I work exclusivly in metric
[15:49:30] <Enccapsulation> but use 1/8", 1/4" tool , etc
[15:50:04] <SpeedEvil> Inches are metric.
[15:50:12] <malcom2073> An inch is 25.4 metrics
[15:50:15] <SpeedEvil> quite.
[15:50:17] <malcom2073> Pretty solid conversion
[15:50:49] <Enccapsulation> so I won't have a problem working in my cad in metric but purchasing these imperial tools ? they are less expensive and seem more common
[15:51:01] <Enccapsulation> the cam will take care of this
[15:51:45] <malcom2073> Exactly, using imperial tools and metric cad won't make a bit of differenec in difficulty
[15:52:17] <gregcnc> www.ebay.com/itm/322099297158
[15:52:21] <Enccapsulation> great
[15:55:59] <Enccapsulation> any ideas for what type of endmill I should be looking at for routing my material? beyond 2 flute
[15:56:04] <enleth> Enccapsulation: well if you input your tooling into the CAM, it will just calculate whatever toolpaths are required to cut your metric stuff with inch tools
[15:56:16] <Enccapsulation> I'm not sure why I might want the 3/8" shank with 1/8" mill vs 1/8" shank
[15:56:30] <jdh> what did you buy
[15:56:32] <Enccapsulation> enleth, thats just what I was hoping, ok. I will go with these collets
[15:56:35] <enleth> Enccapsulation: 2 or even 1 flute, it's better if the seller explicitly claims it's for aluminum
[15:56:44] <Enccapsulation> jdh, raptor
[15:57:04] <Enccapsulation> enleth, what about shank size?
[15:57:07] <enleth> Enccapsulation: other than that, in the "cheap" price range, hardly anything matters
[15:57:22] <Enccapsulation> http://www.ebay.com/itm/10X-1-8-Carbide-Flat-Nose-End-Mill-CNC-Router-Bits-Double-Flute-Spiral-17mm-/400934496161
[15:57:29] <Enccapsulation> I was going to start with these to try
[15:57:41] <jdh> with motors, spindle mount, spindle?
[15:57:58] <enleth> Enccapsulation: get some HSS tooling as well, you'll see what works better in your machine
[15:58:09] <Enccapsulation> jdh, motors and mount, sourcing 1.5kw spindle + step up transformer now
[15:58:15] <gregcnc> with cheap tooling you don't know if the tool sucks or you did something wrong.
[15:58:20] <Enccapsulation> as well as wiring tubing and some starter tooling
[15:58:23] <jdh> step up transformer?
[15:58:38] <Enccapsulation> well the only spindles // vfd with er 16 collet are 220v
[15:58:42] <Enccapsulation> http://www.ebay.com/itm/3000-Watt-Voltage-Transformer-3000-Watt-Step-Up-and-Down-converter-Heavy-Duty-/252044359467?hash=item3aaf03b72b:g:rB8AAOSwiylXAugA
[15:58:44] <Enccapsulation> I was goin got use this
[15:58:46] <Enccapsulation> to solve that
[15:58:54] <Cromaglious_> OK laser working again YEA!!!!!
[15:58:57] <Enccapsulation> let me know if I've got htis wrong
[15:59:05] <RootB> hey linuxCNC, is Fusion 360 worth it?
[15:59:09] <Cromaglious_> and cleaned optics ooops....
[15:59:10] <jdh> why do you want an er16
[15:59:15] <gregcnc> it's free so.....
[15:59:24] <RootB> Well, I don't think it's Free.
[15:59:29] <RootB> you gotta pay 40 dollar a month
[15:59:33] <Enccapsulation> its free if you make less than 100k a year
[15:59:34] <gregcnc> did that change?
[15:59:38] <Enccapsulation> or student or hobbyist
[15:59:41] <Enccapsulation> and its very nice
[15:59:44] <Cromaglious_> there is a free home use level...
[15:59:46] <enleth> RootB: it's fine if you don't mind using proprietary software
[15:59:47] <Enccapsulation> I don't like the cloud aspect though
[15:59:49] <RootB> oh
[15:59:57] <RootB> is it better than SW?
[15:59:59] <Enccapsulation> but its very nice, and very powerful.
[16:00:04] <Enccapsulation> no, probably not
[16:00:11] <Enccapsulation> but think it might be comparable?
[16:00:17] <Enccapsulation> check it out, its free and small dl
[16:00:23] <Enccapsulation> you have nothing to lose
[16:00:26] <enleth> RootB: hard to say, depends if you're an autocad fan or not
[16:00:53] <enleth> RootB: if you've been using autocad or Inventor before, F360 will be familliar
[16:01:28] <enleth> feature-wise it's close to SW, both lack some obscure features the other has and vice-versa
[16:02:30] <enleth> and it sure beats SW as far as price is concerned
[16:03:19] <enleth> Enccapsulation: one more thing about tooling: get some HSS endmills because they're harder to fuck up for the chinese in a given price range
[16:03:26] <gregcnc> if you're making your own stuff probably fine. If you need to interact with the real world, maybe not
[16:03:55] <enleth> Enccapsulation: that is, if you're paying $10, you're more likely to get decent HSS tools than decent carbide tools.
[16:07:41] <Enccapsulation> enleth, ok will do
[16:08:34] <Cromaglious_> sheeeshza.. paused job, letting laser cool
[16:09:33] <Enccapsulation> enleth, so I just wire a plug onto that vfd and plug it into the transformer I linked and I should be ok?
[16:09:47] <Enccapsulation> I'm trying to source spindle cable and stepper cable ow
[16:09:53] <Enccapsulation> I've heard lapp kabel and also igus
[16:10:52] <jdh> you have a > 20amp 120vac circuit for it?
[16:11:22] <Enccapsulation> no but someone online posted they were using a 2.2kw spindle no problem
[16:11:29] <Enccapsulation> similar setup on 20amp home 110v
[16:11:43] <Enccapsulation> also steppers water pump etc same circuit
[16:12:08] <Enccapsulation> going with 1500w spindle
[16:12:16] <Enccapsulation> so I'm hoping it won't be a problem
[16:13:09] <Enccapsulation> should be 13 amps at full power
[16:13:18] <Enccapsulation> but there was something about the transformer involved...
[16:13:33] <Enccapsulation> going to use silicone tubing for the spindle cooling I think
[16:13:54] <Enccapsulation> having trouble sourcing 4 conductor shielded spindle cable though, for a reasonable price
[16:14:00] <jdh> you sure can complicate a trivial router purchase.
[16:14:02] <Enccapsulation> also still need to figture out steppers too, and limits
[16:14:14] <Enccapsulation> well I'm putting it together, it's not so trivial anymore
[16:15:04] <malcom2073> Enccapsulation: I just bought enough parts to build two routers :-P
[16:20:19] <Frank_2> enccapsulation your
[16:20:45] <Frank_2> you are wiring the motors and the spindle to the same transformer right?
[16:25:18] <Enccapsulation> Frank_2, I dont think so
[16:34:43] <Enccapsulation> http://www.cableorganizer.com/igus/cf10-tpe-control-cables/
[16:34:50] <Enccapsulation> ok this cable looks pretty damn nice
[16:36:39] <Enccapsulation> for my steppers, maybe servo too
[16:36:45] <Enccapsulation> need to figure out how much I would need
[16:38:53] <XXCoder> then add some more
[16:39:02] <XXCoder> be cheaper to waste somwe wire length than order more
[16:39:24] <Enccapsulation> true, and I'll use it for something
[16:40:11] <Enccapsulation> seems like it could be a lot of wire
[16:40:15] <Enccapsulation> trying to visualize this
[16:41:50] <Enccapsulation> so only x and z need to be long
[16:41:59] <Enccapsulation> or is it y
[16:42:58] <Enccapsulation> http://forums.azbilliards.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=407949&stc=1&d=1452266839
[16:43:24] <XXCoder> Enccapsulation: I would define long one X
[16:43:40] <XXCoder> when facing it, it is left to right
[16:43:56] <Sync> XXCoder Enccapsulation look up din 66217
[16:44:23] <XXCoder> Sync: know that already :)
[16:49:36] <XXCoder> Enccapsulation: that your machine?
[16:50:39] <Enccapsulation> different dimensions, same machine
[16:50:55] <XXCoder> nice
[16:50:59] <Enccapsulation> I will hjave pics when I put it together
[16:51:06] <Enccapsulation> of the build process
[16:52:58] <XXCoder> cool
[17:01:46] <malcom2073> Enccapsulation: did you buy one?
[17:02:44] <Enccapsulation> malcom2073, yes
[17:02:57] <malcom2073> Sweet!! What'd you get?
[17:03:18] <Enccapsulation> the xzero raptor mini
[17:03:37] <Enccapsulation> I'm sourcing spindle vfd tubes and cables ow
[17:03:41] <Enccapsulation> now*
[17:04:38] <malcom2073> Ah sweet, the kit?
[17:05:39] <Enccapsulation> yes
[17:05:56] <malcom2073> Cool, you'll be able to figure it out
[17:06:46] <Enccapsulation> yeah it seems to all be coming together, I've been doing a lot of reading about it
[17:06:54] <Enccapsulation> stuff should start shipping out tomororw
[17:09:17] <Nick001-shop> Is this a good trace for 0.5 move with a servo? http://imgur.com/QW3Y5My
[17:10:08] <Nick001-shop> Not sure of what I'm reading with this
[17:13:26] <andypugh> Looks reasonable. No oscillation or anything. What units?
[17:14:38] <pcw_home> needs some FF1...
[17:15:03] <andypugh> Yes, there does seem to be a coasting error
[17:15:36] <Deejay> gn8
[17:15:39] <pcw_home> velocity and voltage mode drives require FF1
[17:18:36] <pcw_home> FF1 starting value for +-10V analog drives is 10/Drive_IPS@10V
[17:21:11] <pcw_home> (assuming +-10 full scale for analog out/PWM)
[17:22:19] <Nick001-shop> Running torque/current - encoder feedback
[17:22:20] <Frank_2> guys do you know where can i get good info on building a cnc cabinet, and security measures, i've been reading a lot, but i still cant figure out some -maybe- basic stuff, like if my isolation transformer should power up the vfd and the servomotors, or they should be separated, and the transformer grounding
[17:23:03] <Sync> huh, why are you isolating the drives?
[17:23:17] <Nick001-shop> putting anything into ff1 or 2 mames the motor jump around
[17:23:53] <Nick001-shop> makes
[17:24:07] <andypugh> You need smaller numbers then. :-)
[17:26:04] <Frank_2> sync: if that answer was for me (?), i am not, i will be connecting them to earth
[17:26:15] <pcw_home> That really does not look like a drive in torque mode
[17:28:06] <pcw_home> looks much more like velocity or voltage mode (since the error is proportional to velocity)
[17:28:15] <Nick001-shop> thats what I set the jumpers on the 25A20
[17:28:50] <pcw_home> do you have any D term?
[17:29:20] <Nick001-shop> current mode
[17:29:42] <Nick001-shop> d is 2950 and p is 15
[17:30:32] <pcw_home> what hardware?
[17:30:42] <pcw_home> (linuxcnc hardware)
[17:31:28] <Nick001-shop> 7i77 & 25a20 AMC linuxxcnc
[17:33:04] <pcw_home> I'd try some FF1, start small (like .02 or so and see if you can reduce the cruise error)
[17:33:09] <Nick001-shop> axis 2.7.4 100' round trip for info-(
[17:33:33] <Nick001-shop> Ok - be back
[17:34:56] <Nick001-shop> should I be reducing the height of that ramp with D?
[17:40:00] <pcw_home> I would think FF1
[17:40:02] <pcw_home> for a torque mode drive D should first be set as high as possible while remaining stable
[17:44:39] <Nick001-shop> Set 5 at 5 and FF! at 0.01 - seems to move smoother http://imgur.com/J5sZOfy
[17:45:03] <Nick001-shop> Set D at 5
[17:55:33] <pcw_home> needs a scosh more FF1
[17:57:01] <pcw_home> (if you have too much the error will go below the line)
[18:02:59] <Nick001-shop> Have to do it tomorrow - dinner time -)
[18:13:04] <JT-Mobile> Z==
[18:13:11] <JT-Mobile> Zeeeeeeeeeee
[18:29:30] <zeeshan|2> =]
[18:29:34] <XXCoder> yo
[18:30:58] <JT-Mobile> Hey
[18:31:21] <JT-Mobile> Ribs on low and slow
[18:32:45] <JT-Mobile> Zeeshan rode 125 miles for a milkshake and deep fried hot dog
[18:33:02] <JT-Mobile> 75 miles back
[18:37:45] <jdh> that's a lot of pedalling
[18:39:50] <XXCoder> http://geekologie.com/2015/08/05/champagne-rocket.gif
[18:40:36] <JT-Mobile> Took the BlueWing
[18:41:37] <JT-Mobile> Ouch
[18:43:49] <Sync> nice
[18:53:17] <Tom_itx> JT-Mobile, worth it?
[18:53:29] <Tom_itx> did you get the trike fixed yet?
[18:54:26] <Tom_itx> this damn compiler is very picky
[18:54:27] <JT-Mobile> No throttle body problem.
[18:54:54] <JT-Mobile> Dog and shake worth the ride
[18:54:54] <Tom_itx> but i got 2 screens working
[18:55:09] <Tom_itx> yeah but not in my diet :(
[18:55:34] <JT-Mobile> Me neither but ...
[18:55:42] <Tom_itx> i hear ya..
[18:56:23] <JT-Mobile> Low humidity so nice day for a ride
[18:56:53] <JT-Mobile> Ribs on low and slow
[18:58:16] <JT-Mobile> Down to 177 only 7 to go :)
[19:00:44] <JT-Mobile> In the morning show me what you are working on
[19:01:09] <Tom_itx> not alot to show atm
[19:01:35] <Tom_itx> still the big learning curve even though i already fairly well know the dos ver of the language
[19:02:11] <JT-Mobile> Maybe I can spot something
[19:02:36] <Tom_itx> it's a matter of figuring out how to reinvent the wheel
[19:02:51] <Tom_itx> mostly a code rewrite
[19:03:09] <JT-Mobile> I have a computer that boots on DOS
[19:03:20] <Tom_itx> unless you're fluent in ca-clipper
[19:03:24] <JT-Mobile> I hear you
[19:03:48] <Tom_itx> this compiler is way more picky than clipper was
[19:03:48] <JT-Mobile> Is it very different from foxpro
[19:04:15] <Tom_itx> but it's taking a while to figure out what makes it happy
[19:04:43] <Tom_itx> i've avoided windows programming at all cost until now
[19:06:27] <malcom2073> zeeshan|2: https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13340270_1290477290966649_7774996593924764252_o.jpg
[19:06:33] <malcom2073> The beginnings of a servo powered router :-P
[19:07:41] <Enccapsulation> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3w07AvpSa7o
[19:07:54] <andypugh> malcom2073: Quite a big one?
[19:08:09] <malcom2073> andypugh: 5x12ft frame
[19:08:50] <Sync> nice way to get blinded
[19:57:53] <dioz> i'm in toronto
[19:58:11] <dioz> and i need to know if gear and pully systems are better than hydraulic cylinders
[19:58:42] <malcom2073> Universally? No
[19:58:50] <dioz> why not?
[19:58:51] <malcom2073> In specific use cases? Sure
[19:59:04] <dioz> why not in university?
[20:01:11] <Enccapsulation> Sync, only 500w no problem
[20:02:24] <malcom2073> dioz: Hydraulics have significantly more power density
[20:02:36] <dioz> i wanna make a arm
[20:02:44] <dioz> and have it do predesigned motionsn
[20:03:03] <dioz> and i 'm wondering about controlling individual hydraulic cylinders
[20:03:21] <dioz> how do you determine how far you're moving the arms. is it based on time? is there a sensor?
[20:03:34] <malcom2073> You would have to have a sensor, like in any system
[20:03:44] <malcom2073> Like in almost any system*
[20:03:48] <dioz> is there ways to do it with timing?
[20:04:05] <dioz> IE. i actuate the pump for the cylinder for 2 seconds results in 3 inches worth of movement
[20:04:08] <dioz> or whatever
[20:04:28] <malcom2073> Sure, +/- some large degree of error
[20:04:48] <malcom2073> you'd also want to watch hydralic pump speed
[20:04:53] <malcom2073> since that will slow down under varying loads
[20:05:38] <dioz> unless you could equalize the pressure consistantly
[20:06:02] <dioz> 500psi
[20:06:09] <dioz> or whatever is deemed necessary
[20:06:13] <malcom2073> For distance you care about flow, not pressure
[20:06:37] <dioz> need a big tank and a big pump
[20:06:45] <dioz> then regulate accordingly for motors/cylinders
[20:06:46] <dioz> IMO
[20:07:04] <dioz> it's like buying bandwidth
[20:07:59] <malcom2073> If you're moving more than one actuator at a time, it gets significantly more complicated
[20:08:38] <dioz> i must be under-thinking it
[20:09:12] <dioz> i just think of a hoe
[20:09:17] <dioz> like... a excavator
[20:09:21] <dioz> or whatever you wanna call it
[20:10:41] <malcom2073> Yep.If you move two of the actuators (bucket and boom) at the same time with the same pump, the distance each moves depends on the load they're under
[20:11:06] <dioz> i understand
[20:11:22] <dioz> you're saying you'd need a individual pump for each system
[20:11:28] <dioz> to make it consistant through all movements
[20:11:45] <malcom2073> And read pump speed, andm ake sure they're the same.
[20:11:54] <malcom2073> Or just read joint position and close the loop there
[20:12:42] <dioz> good chat
[20:12:59] <dioz> gonna go walk around downtown toronto
[20:13:05] <malcom2073> enjoy
[20:13:08] <dioz> be back shortly
[20:13:23] <dioz> i wonder which would be cheaper
[20:13:24] <dioz> BTW
[20:13:29] <dioz> having sensors
[20:13:43] <dioz> or over-building the rig for spec
[20:14:07] <dioz> i think a sensor setup would be a custom design
[20:14:09] <dioz> on a arm
[20:14:22] <dioz> or you'd need cameras watching points on the rig
[20:14:24] <malcom2073> You will need sensors, no matter what
[20:15:01] <malcom2073> There are COTS sensors that would work depending on the design of the arm
[20:21:14] <Duc> anyoone run RSF linear encoders before?
[20:50:56] <CaptHindsight> http://www.rsf.at/en/
[20:51:39] <CaptHindsight> Output signals: TTL, sinus 1 Vpp
[20:53:40] <CaptHindsight> Duc: I haven't but they look pretty straightforward to use
[21:01:10] <CaptHindsight> Thought for the day: Stephen Hawking is a loser. He's stupid and says stupid things, not like Trump, who is smart, has a good brain and a lot of words.
[21:03:30] <Frank_2> lol
[21:17:24] <jdh> he has the best words
[21:28:47] <Frank_2> guys i cant decide if i should use an isolation transformer for the electronics enclosure, 4 servos 1 kw each what do you think? they are 220v ac
[21:38:35] <Duc> CaptHindsight: Been looking for a manual for the set I got for $20. Can find a listing for the MSA 6701.
[21:39:46] <Duc> CaptHindsight: Unable to find the pinout for the connector so I emailed them tonight. How does Mesa handle sinusoidal voltage encoders
[22:06:41] <dioz> is a gantry or arm better for plasma cutter for blanking out?
[22:07:10] <XXCoder> I would think gantry is better, more stable, but just guess really
[22:07:51] <dioz> gantry lu
[22:08:05] <dioz> gantry would probably be easier to build with lumber
[22:08:16] <dioz> and use fewer motors
[22:08:18] <XXCoder> likely
[22:09:02] <dioz> i work with sheet metal professionally
[22:09:06] <Erant> Gantry, arm is mostly for rigidity. You require less rigidity on a plasma cutter.
[22:09:23] <Erant> You can get a much larger work surface with a gantry.
[22:09:40] <dioz> end goal is a few nominal art projects that i feel would make money
[22:09:50] <dioz> people are into 3d letters/numbers made of sheet metal
[22:10:08] <dioz> i seen 'em downtown toronto for $50 a pop for 7-10 inch letters
[22:10:22] <Erant> Do you get the finish you want out of plasma?
[22:10:22] <XXCoder> Erant: arm is more rigid?
[22:10:24] <Erant> Just curious.
[22:10:25] <XXCoder> interesting
[22:10:51] <Polymorphism> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7-eEj_qq5M
[22:10:57] <dioz> Erant: idk. a plasma could would have rigid edges
[22:11:06] <Erant> XXCoder: Well, depends on the length, but that's why I understand mills are arms.
[22:11:14] <dioz> because of the kerf ?
[22:11:42] <Erant> dioz: Does a plasma cutter give a good surface finish?
[22:11:48] <Erant> Kerf doesn't matter very much, I'd say.
[22:12:50] <dioz> Erant: i've never used a plasma cutter to cut 12-28 gauge sheet metal TBH
[22:12:56] <dioz> idk what the finish would look like
[22:15:45] <Erant> I figured it'd be a little rough. But maybe that's ok 'cuz it's art ;)
[22:16:13] <XXCoder> or make it plasma/router combo
[22:16:21] <XXCoder> cut using plama then finish
[22:22:40] <dioz> idk how that would work on lettering
[22:22:43] <dioz> or numbering
[22:23:03] <dioz> those would probably need to be pretty sharp inner corners and such
[22:23:39] <XXCoder> yeah
[22:23:44] <dioz> cut 'em all out with snips?
[22:23:46] <dioz> HAH
[22:23:49] <XXCoder> magic
[22:24:37] <XXCoder> I remember one book, they had discovered whecked techology from future and figured how to make basically spacetime flaw. any atoms that touch it falls out of universe
[22:24:57] <XXCoder> among many many uses, they used em as tools for milling and lathe
[22:25:04] <XXCoder> infinitely sharp and never dulls
[22:26:58] <dioz> isn't the technical name for the portion cut by the palasma arc called the "kerf" ?
[22:27:28] <dioz> if i remember from trade school that is correct
[22:29:11] <XXCoder> conan's time machine of I recall right. bit weird book, and not best. kinda fun to read.
[22:32:45] <dioz> one thing i've never done is sharpened a drill bit
[22:32:55] <Erant> How's Chinese carbide? I need some basic tools for my new lathe, I've been grinding my own HSS blanks, but I need some practice...
[22:33:14] <dioz> i've heard it isn't that hard
[22:34:30] <XXCoder> LOL https://youtu.be/621Ad3p29qs
[23:00:25] <XXCoder> odd
[23:00:36] <XXCoder> I got gage feeler, and it comes in various sizes
[23:00:48] <XXCoder> but there is 2 .01 feller gages, one steel and one brass
[23:03:33] <dioz> where are steel and brass on the galvanic scale?
[23:03:41] <dioz> with regards to corrosion
[23:08:45] <dioz> maybe magnetic vs. non-magnetic
[23:09:21] <dioz> brass is non-magnetic isn't it?
[23:09:23] <XXCoder> if steel is magentic its definitely not stainless
[23:09:26] <XXCoder> yah
[23:09:33] <XXCoder> well depends on alloys but mostly not
[23:10:46] <dioz> high quality SS isn't magnetic either
[23:11:22] <XXCoder> yeah thats what I said :)
[23:11:35] <XXCoder> though I guess lower quality ss is slightly magnetic?
[23:11:44] <dioz> well.. some stainless is magnetic
[23:11:52] <XXCoder> "depending on alloys" is for brass
[23:12:19] <dioz> yah i know what you're saying
[23:12:44] <dioz> i'm a tin banger by trade
[23:13:02] <dioz> one of the things we learn is properties of metal
[23:13:11] <dioz> coatings
[23:13:31] <dioz> it's the thickest part of the book tbh
[23:13:43] <dioz> metalurgy is also part of it
[23:14:58] <dioz> terne coating used to be done with lead
[23:15:03] <dioz> now it's done with zinc
[23:15:09] <XXCoder> I wish i took metal class so I understand more about it
[23:15:20] <XXCoder> lead is amazing metal.
[23:15:25] <XXCoder> too damn bad its so toxic to everything
[23:15:30] <dioz> minus the toxic
[23:15:32] <dioz> haha yah
[23:16:45] <dioz> i need a lathe and a mill in my basement instead of the shop
[23:17:04] <XXCoder> what I need in my room is room!
[23:17:37] <dioz> hah
[23:17:50] <dioz> gf and i have too much space
[23:17:54] <dioz> she keeps bring junk home
[23:18:05] <dioz> so i figure i'mma bring some tools in