#linuxcnc | Logs for 2016-05-27

[02:24:22] <Deejay> moin
[03:19:38] <Demure_> Anyone know any good article on explaining CNC Lathe tooling for a beginner? I'm getting lost here.
[03:20:33] <archivist> not sure what you need
[03:21:42] <archivist> what are you not understanding about tooling
[03:22:52] <Demure_> Negative vs positive, left hand vs right hand, different insert technology, different angles (i.e. do I need a left handed tool and a right handed tool to make a tube with 90 degree angles at each side of the groove or would you cut with an angled tool then do the edges with a grooving tool?)
[03:23:22] <Demure_> i.e. if I open up any lathe tooling catalog there's just too many options
[03:24:42] <archivist> neg v pos is about material you are cutting and roughing
[03:25:38] <archivist> usually a tooling catalogue shows a range of uses for an insert
[03:25:57] <archivist> eg sandvik
[03:26:05] <Demure_> And I only have 6 positions in my toolchanger & limited funds, so I'd rather not buy the wrong thing first.
[03:26:07] <Demure_> I see
[03:26:19] <Demure_> I'll look up one of the Sandvik catalogues then, was avoiding them due to the cost
[03:27:06] <Demure_> Do I understand correctly that whatever code I'll see in i.e. a Sandvik catalog is the same code for any other brand in general?
[03:27:08] <archivist> I bet you can download "Modern metal cutting" Sandvik Coromant
[03:27:51] <archivist> parts of the codes are international, parts are manufacturer
[03:28:26] <archivist> in many cases I still hand grind HSS to suit the job
[03:28:40] <enleth> Demure_: do you have any experience with manual turning?
[03:28:57] <Demure_> Thanks, I'll look it up.
[03:29:08] <Demure_> enleth: No experience whatsoever, only have experience with 3 axis CNC milling
[03:29:32] <archivist> well worth trying to get some manual experience
[03:29:35] <enleth> well that's too bad
[03:29:46] <enleth> what he said ^
[03:30:41] <Demure_> Not sure I have that option sadly
[03:30:57] <archivist> to be honest 99.9% of my turning is manual because it is mostly one off work
[03:30:58] <Demure_> (Financially, I mean)
[03:31:14] <Demure_> I want to mostly do productions
[03:31:29] <Demure_> (& Threaded parts)
[03:32:09] <enleth> Demure_: even an $500 chinese toy lathe will get you up to speed on the basics
[03:32:35] <archivist> local college or hackerspace lathe
[03:32:41] <enleth> that, too
[03:32:55] <archivist> or model engineer club
[03:33:16] <enleth> besides, you'll have a manual lathe for those one-offs that take an hour to set up on a CNC machine and 5 minutes to do start to finish on a manual
[03:33:33] <Demure_> The latter is sadly nowhere to be found, I've urged the few we have here plenty of times, but most don't really understand milling and turning, it's just the generic lasercutter and 3D printer stuff.
[03:33:44] <Demure_> I was hoping to set up the CNC lathe with two MPG encoders to be able to do manual work
[03:33:51] <Demure_> I have a manual tool holder, too
[03:34:03] <Demure_> But not so much the space nor money to buy a second manual lathe
[03:34:22] <enleth> do you happen to have dual shaft motors?
[03:34:30] <Demure_> Nope
[03:34:41] <Demure_> So no adding dials to the back of it I'm afraid
[03:34:50] <enleth> having handwheels physically coupled to the leadscrews *really* helps at the beginning
[03:35:38] <Demure_> Is it the feedback of resistance?
[03:35:41] <enleth> so you can actually feel the cutting force resisting the torque you're applying to the handwheel, and the vibrations
[03:36:28] <Demure_> I see.
[03:36:56] <enleth> when turning, you either calculate all the feeds, speeds, depths, tooling geometries and a million other factors and go blind at it, which is what a CNC lathe does, or you go ahead by feel and sound
[03:38:01] <enleth> most of the time you can hear if the cut is going well or not, the difference is much more pronounced than with milling
[03:38:36] <archivist> frying sound good, singing bad
[03:38:55] <archivist> growl, panic pull out
[03:39:01] <enleth> yeah, that does sound a little like hot oil humming on a frying pan
[03:39:14] <enleth> or dry leaves being shuffled around by wind
[03:39:17] <Demure_> I generally prefer the first type. I come from a programming background and not so much handworking, always steered away from working with machines until I found out CNC mills & lathes were becoming affordable
[03:39:47] <Demure_> And that's good to know, haha.
[03:39:54] <Demure_> Singing = chatter, yes?
[03:40:18] <archivist> yes, chatter/resonance of something
[03:40:33] <enleth> and I *think* turning is much less forgiving than milling when it comes to non-ideal conditions
[03:41:24] <enleth> with a CNC mill, you have a pretty wide "safe" working envelope if you're not crazy about maximizing performance
[03:41:40] <archivist> hand turning with a graver is reasonably easy if you listen and feel what is going on
[03:41:44] <enleth> with a CNC lathe, you must know what you're doing or the results will be quite catastrophic
[03:42:06] <enleth> at least that's my impression of it
[03:42:33] <archivist> I hate the lack of feel on a cnc lathe
[03:43:11] <archivist> have to hover over the feed override in case of problems
[03:43:33] <Demure_> Is there a downside to taking conservative cuts with a CNC lathe?
[03:43:47] <Demure_> Other than toolwear
[03:43:55] <enleth> if only it were so simple
[03:44:05] <archivist> takes ages far too slow, wears the tool a bit more
[03:44:36] <archivist> take too little can also not get under the skin
[03:44:54] <archivist> poor finish and rubbing the result
[03:45:16] <Demure_> So close to the same as milling too slow, then?
[03:48:25] <enleth> oh, and keep in mind, if you crash a mill, stuff will move around, something will probably break, you might lose some alignment and might need some repairs. if you crash a lathe and it's not your lucky day, heavy spinning stuff goes airborne
[03:49:11] <Demure_> That I'm aware of
[03:49:13] <archivist> I have had a chuck come off
[03:50:12] <archivist> parting off can be the hardest job on a lathe
[03:51:57] <archivist> my sandvik is is the best I have seen so far on the manual, on a capstan we used hss and ground the edge to suit the job
[03:54:48] <enleth> Demure_: basically you're going to have to learn your CAM of choice really well and come to love reading tooling catalogs, with all the tables, charts and plots within
[03:55:03] <Demure_> I'm fine with that
[03:55:44] <Demure_> I can use the same CAM I'm using for milling for turning, too, so that's a bonus. Different process all together, but at least software side I understand it fully.
[03:56:14] <enleth> you can't correct for non-ideal cut parameters on the fly, so you need to make sure they're exactly what the tool vendor had in mind for exactly this kind of material being cut exactly that way
[03:58:00] <enleth> all that said, I'm still scared of big CNC lathes and I'm sticking with a manual
[03:58:55] <Demure_> Other way around for me, but healthily afraid either way. Luckily going to run a rather small CNC lathe.
[04:07:42] <archivist> Demure_, what model?
[04:07:50] <Demure_> Emco 5
[04:08:23] <archivist> production of what?
[04:08:46] <Demure_> Adapters of old lenses to modern shutters & other camera parts
[04:08:48] <Demure_> Generally brass
[04:09:26] <Demure_> I build analogue cameras and would like to expand my possibilities
[04:09:56] <enleth> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvalLrpjqrI - that one?
[04:10:17] <Demure_> Yup, but with new guts / control system
[04:10:18] <archivist> I have thread milled for large diameter fine threads
[04:10:57] <Demure_> Thread milling is what I've done for now
[04:11:27] <enleth> ok, that's indeed a small lathe, not likely to pose a significant danger even with a very bad crash
[04:12:05] <Demure_> I'm sure anything can be a significant danger if I mess up bad enough :') But no, no VMCs or anything like that, luckily.
[04:12:16] <enleth> on the other hand, with no manual feedback, your safe working envelope is going to be *very* slim
[04:12:58] <enleth> ever wondered why big CNC lathes are *so* beefy and bulky for a working area much smaller than a manual of the same weight?
[04:13:02] <enleth> I mean, there are many reasons
[04:13:35] <enleth> but one of them is extra stiffness for when there's no human to adjust things on the fly
[04:13:36] <Demure_> Stability, no?
[04:13:44] <Demure_> That's fair, too.
[04:13:59] <Demure_> I do have a partial enclosure for it which should help at least a little
[04:14:52] <enleth> on a manual, with a comparatively slender cross slide, toolpost, etc, you can go right up to the machine's limits if you know what you're doing
[04:15:23] <enleth> worst case, you'll just back off and rethink your approach when things start to sound bad
[04:16:04] <enleth> this emco is a manual lathe with a factory retrofit for CNC
[04:16:26] <Demure_> Close, there's both manual and CNC versions
[04:16:42] <enleth> the iron looks roughly the same
[04:16:48] <Demure_> A lot of the parts are the same but there's some differences in the cross slide, ballscrews, etc.
[04:17:10] <enleth> with luck, the cross slide is bulkier
[04:17:11] <Demure_> People have told me before they are the same, but I found someone who was willing to help me out with some parts from his Emco 5 manual and they wouldn't fit
[04:17:14] <Demure_> Yup, a lot
[04:17:24] <Demure_> That's one of the main differences
[04:19:33] <Demure_> Plus automatic toolchanger, so that's nice. :)
[04:21:03] <enleth> but it's really a shame they did not use dual shaft motors for optional handwheels
[04:21:34] <Demure_> Wouldn't handwheels on ballscrews be tricky anyway since it can exert the force back onto the wheels?
[04:22:07] <Demure_> Plus you'd create back EMF into the electronics by turning them, too.
[04:22:18] <enleth> yeah, a proper CNC/manual hybrid needs axis brakes
[04:22:36] <Demure_> I think they probably just wanted to skip on that
[04:22:54] <Demure_> Save some money
[04:24:23] <enleth> I've got a CNC mill factory fitted with mechanical handwheels and it has solenoid-driven disc brakes
[04:26:02] <enleth> that's not a common configuration, but it's absolutely wonderful for prototyping
[04:26:27] <Demure_> I bet, sounds like a fancy feature
[04:31:19] <enleth> the control has parametrized canned cycles and teach-in (so you make the first part manually, then run a batch), and it's possible to drop out of the program and switch to manual at any time
[04:31:40] <enleth> they don't make mills like that anymore, I think
[04:54:26] <Demure_> Ahh, so that's what teach-in means.
[05:01:02] <Demure_> Besides Sandvik, Kennametal, Iscar & SECO should I be looking into any other tooling brands? Anything on the cheaper end that's still decent?
[05:02:02] <enleth> Depends on where you are
[05:02:15] <Demure_> Netherlands, Europe
[05:02:33] <Demure_> I get my endmills from Nachreiner but they don't offer any turning tools.
[05:05:59] <enleth> There are several relatively cheap high quality tooling manufacturers in Poland, one of them specializing in lathe tooling: http://www.pafana.pl/
[05:06:28] <enleth> Switch to English, try not to notice the egregiously horrible translation, see what they offer
[05:07:14] <Demure_> Thanks! That's good to know, didn't come across their name yet.
[05:13:29] <enleth> The others are Fanar, http://www.fanar.pl/en/offer/ (mostly taps and dies, some specialty drills too), Fenes, http://fenes.com.pl/en (mostly mill tooling) and Bison, http://www.bison-bial.pl/ (machine accessories, toolholders, vises)
[05:16:36] <enleth> I've been using HSSCo drills from Fanar quite a lot, they handle stainless steels very well and the price is hard to beat
[05:16:54] <enleth> some machine taps as well
[05:22:03] <enleth> I don't think they could compete with all the fancy high tech tooling from Seco, Sandvik and such, but they're just fine if all you need is classic stuff
[05:23:33] <Demure_> What kind of fancy high tech are we talking about? I don't think I need much special, i.e. internal cooling is of no use to me
[05:27:06] <enleth> exactly
[05:27:23] <enleth> oh, and I just realized what's probably going to be your biggest problem with tooling
[05:27:33] <enleth> finding stuff *small* enough for that Emco
[05:27:57] <enleth> what's the shank size in the toolpost?
[05:29:06] <enleth> if it's less than 16mm, you are going to be somewhat limited by that
[05:29:43] <enleth> if less than 12, you're in trouble
[05:30:43] <Demure_> Yup, it's pretty small. 12mm shank size
[05:31:50] <Demure_> I'm also a tad worried of having only 6 (3 shanks / 3 round) on the toolchanger.
[05:32:12] <enleth> let's see
[05:33:07] <enleth> a parting tool, a general purpose outside cutter and an outside threading cutter
[05:33:18] <enleth> two boring bars, inside threading cutter
[05:33:37] <enleth> could use one more square shank for an extra outside cutter
[05:34:07] <enleth> you might need to swap one with the thread cutter as needed
[05:34:59] <Demure_> That's what I was thinking. But what about a drill / center drill or can you use a boring bar to create holes?
[05:35:29] <Demure_> I thought you generally drilled then used a boring bar to make it bigger
[05:36:00] <enleth> yeah, you want a starting hole
[05:36:30] <Demure_> So one drill, one boring bar and one internal thread cutter would be acceptable?
[05:36:47] <Demure_> And if I understand correctly, I can also use the parting tool for grooving?
[05:37:01] <SpeedEvil> Sometimes
[05:37:12] <SpeedEvil> It may be too flexy
[05:37:14] <enleth> depends on the insert geometry and such
[05:37:18] <enleth> that too
[05:37:24] <Demure_> Say I want a shape like |_____| and want both edges to be close to 90
[05:38:09] <Demure_> Then a generic cutter tool won't be able to do that, so I thought it might be possible to cut the middle with the generic cutter into something like \___/ and then using the parting just on the \ amd / to make it |____|
[05:38:17] <Demure_> I see.
[05:38:48] <SpeedEvil> Tool wear and time can also be a tradeoff
[05:38:54] <enleth> in principle, that works and people do this
[05:38:55] <archivist> a parting tool can be used for grooving
[05:39:01] <mase-tech> Good morning
[05:39:14] <enleth> but it really depends on the tool
[05:39:49] <mase-tech> Is this part working with linux cnc ? http://www.ebay.de/itm/322085572571 I think yes because it only receives the needed signals from PC
[05:40:07] <SpeedEvil> You can do many things non optimally, but more changers may make it faster, better surface finish, less wear, ...
[05:40:18] <archivist> Demure_, I do a lot with http://www.greenwood-tools.co.uk/shopscr23.html
[05:40:40] <archivist> this is just a shortened sandvik
[05:41:00] <archivist> but the tips are nice
[05:41:41] <enleth> Demure_: besides, if you're going to be working with large diameter flat parts made out of brass, you might want to stick with HSS tooling
[05:41:51] <Demure_> I see. Is manual toolchanging on a Lathe all that problematic? I could always swap out a tool from the ATC.
[05:42:01] <Demure_> archivist: Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.
[05:42:14] <mase-tech> hi
[05:42:16] <enleth> it might be just me, but I've never had much success with carbide on brass
[05:42:30] <SpeedEvil> Manual changing, if the tool is 8n a repeated position. ..
[05:42:52] <SpeedEvil> Doesn't hss last forever on brass?
[05:43:05] <Demure_> enleth: They're not all that flat, mostly tubular. Are HSS inserts a thing or do you mean solid HSS tooling?
[05:43:13] <enleth> Demure_: solid HSS
[05:43:14] <Demure_> I will mostly be cutting brass or alu
[05:43:30] <archivist> Demure_, for brass the cutters have to be very sharp, get the ground inserts
[05:43:45] <Demure_> enleth: And what about longevity? i.e. isn't a toolholder + inserts cheaper in the long run if something wears out?
[05:43:46] <SpeedEvil> Alu can have a tough oxide coat which wears tools in some cases
[05:44:14] <archivist> hss is cheaper on brass
[05:44:25] <enleth> Demure_: not sure about cost, but it's sure more repeatable
[05:44:32] <Demure_> I see, didn't think about this, only used to carbide.
[05:45:00] <Demure_> So HSS inserts would be an option?
[05:45:04] <enleth> or rather - easier to achieve repeatablility
[05:45:54] <enleth> a solid HSS tool is cheap if you don't mind sharpening it often and wasting time zeroing it again
[05:46:00] <enleth> not a problem at all on a manual lathe
[05:46:02] <Demure_> I like the idea of something being worn out and just being able to replace the insert and continue
[05:46:10] <enleth> but a CNC needs repeatable tool lengths
[05:46:18] <jdh> worn out is relative
[05:46:21] <Demure_> solid HSS indeed seems more useful on a manual lathe also as you can shape it
[05:46:50] <archivist> with brass there is almost no wear on brass
[05:47:05] <_methods> you can find piles of HSS at auctions for nothing
[05:47:15] <_methods> people don't use it in industry much anymore
[05:47:40] <SpeedEvil> Is all hss rod sold hardened, or is it beneficial to heat treat it, though the temperatures are very annoying
[05:47:56] <_methods> it's already hardened
[05:48:08] <enleth> Demure_: anyway, a typical carbide insert meant for steel just doesn't have an edge sharp enough for brass, it cuts steel by being hard as hell and forcing it away from the rest of the stock when they collide
[05:48:13] <_methods> if it turns blue when you're grinding it you screwed up
[05:48:36] <Demure_> enleth: I see, that's good to know. So ground HSS inserts is what I need if I want to go with inserts over solid
[05:48:50] <enleth> Demure_: brass will tend to slip on the edge of the insert and flex away from it
[05:49:19] <_methods> most companies that make inserts make inserts specifically for brass
[05:49:27] <_methods> you just need to read the cutter/insert data sheets
[05:49:28] <enleth> Demure_: up to the point where the whole piece of stock decides to jump over the edge on top of the tool
[05:49:33] <_methods> so you can purchase the correct insert
[05:50:26] <_methods> but if you're just starting out with limited tooling and budget HSS will give you the most flexibility
[05:50:48] <Demure_> I see.
[05:50:50] <Demure_> Thanks all for the advice, I think I've got enough info to do another large round of reading and researching. :)
[05:50:51] <enleth> Demure_: as for changing tools - this might sound crazy, but see if you can buy the whole turret separately and whether it swaps out easily.
[05:51:32] <enleth> Demure_: if it does, just keep two sets of tools and swap the whole thing maybe?
[05:51:36] <Demure_> enleth: Didn't think about that, not the craziest of ideas, just pricy so that will be a future thing. I've seen people adding one or two more drills as a gang since there's some more space available, I might go that route
[05:51:38] <SpeedEvil> Hah
[05:52:23] <SpeedEvil> If only diamond bars were a thing
[05:52:36] <XXCoder> SpeedEvil: will be someday
[05:52:38] <Demure_> Optical lathes use diamond tips, no?
[05:52:39] <XXCoder> its just carbon.
[05:52:43] <SpeedEvil> Diamond boring bars
[05:54:09] <Sync> yeah they use pcd
[05:54:45] <Demure_> Sync: Do you have experience with optical lathes?
[05:59:05] <XXCoder> once we find a way, there is quite countless applications to diamond that can be made to order
[05:59:10] <XXCoder> in any shape
[06:26:08] <pink_vampire> hi
[06:26:25] <pink_vampire> someone here?
[06:26:51] <XXCoder> nope
[06:26:55] <XXCoder> heh
[06:26:58] <jthornton> nope
[06:27:07] <XXCoder> youre lllllate jthornton
[06:27:20] <jthornton> over slept
[06:27:32] <XXCoder> what up pink
[06:28:06] <pink_vampire> I have a DC motor
[06:28:36] <XXCoder> yeah?
[06:28:40] <XXCoder> oh yeah
[06:28:45] <XXCoder> I got the controller
[06:28:48] <pink_vampire> with 4 to 1 gear (the motor dose 4 revs the shaft make 1)
[06:28:58] <pink_vampire> the motor is 770W
[06:29:03] <XXCoder> it works, though at LOW range spindle dont really work lol
[06:29:43] <pink_vampire> do now you slow down your spindle?
[06:29:58] <XXCoder> yep, though not sure how much iot weakens it lol
[06:31:36] <pink_vampire> so no burn wood anymore :)
[06:32:11] <XXCoder> yeah. what about your dc?
[06:33:18] <pink_vampire> I have 29.4N.m on the shaft
[06:33:56] <pink_vampire> and I want to select the right rails for it.
[06:36:13] <XXCoder> cool, though dont know enough to advise on that :)
[06:36:19] <XXCoder> oh check this out pink_vampire http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/XMgAAOSwWTRW10aq/s-l500.jpg
[06:36:49] <pink_vampire> analog.
[06:36:52] <XXCoder> I bought this, it was fairly off on accuracy, but it got certificated at work, and I did little tuneup fter archivist and witnit helped me learn about it
[06:37:06] <XXCoder> it works perfect. co-worker said it is around 60s era
[06:37:09] <XXCoder> might be late 50s
[06:37:11] <XXCoder> dang
[06:37:41] <pink_vampire> how did you certificated something like that?
[06:37:41] <XXCoder> it looks very clean after it was sent off to certification and returned
[06:38:03] <XXCoder> company pays for it, they send to certifictaion company that checks it over and make sure it works properly
[06:38:19] <pink_vampire> ok
[06:38:20] <archivist> they will have checked it on gauge blocks
[06:38:35] <XXCoder> only problem with my old mic is that it gets very slight error below .1"
[06:38:41] <archivist> that are traceable to national standards
[06:38:54] <XXCoder> at most extreme is at zero is 0.00015" off
[06:39:05] <XXCoder> whatever, it passes all tests above .1
[06:39:14] <XXCoder> below I just subtract .0001
[06:39:18] <pink_vampire> this is why I'm using only calipers.
[06:39:22] <pink_vampire> https://tech.thk.com/index_en.php
[06:39:34] <XXCoder> pink why? mic is super duper accurate than calipers
[06:39:35] <pink_vampire> any advice?
[06:39:39] <XXCoder> I love my mics
[06:39:56] <XXCoder> other one is 2015 mitoyo (real one) mic
[06:40:00] <XXCoder> digital one
[06:40:26] <pink_vampire> it's the same with morse tapers.
[06:41:06] <XXCoder> archivist: thanks again for info
[06:41:15] <XXCoder> because I can now trust my mic to work properly
[06:41:16] <pink_vampire> you put very thick layer of dyecam and the fit 100%
[06:41:59] <XXCoder> anyway pink consider getting a decent mic, its really best for below 1" (or larger with larger mics)
[06:42:18] <archivist> heh fit 100%, you need to read about engineering fits
[06:42:30] <XXCoder> nothing fir perfectly
[06:42:39] <XXCoder> only somewhat close to tol or very close to tol
[06:42:45] <malcom2073> It's all about choosing what is "close enough"
[06:43:12] <XXCoder> of course out of tol is third possibity, one you dont want :D
[06:43:25] <archivist> all my 1" gauge blocks measure differently
[06:43:36] <pink_vampire> yeah
[06:44:01] <XXCoder> archivist: as long as differently under .0002 or something
[06:44:03] <pink_vampire> so i need to get rails
[06:44:10] <XXCoder> not too sure what gage tol proper range is
[06:44:17] <pink_vampire> https://tech.thk.com/en/products/index.php?tar=285
[06:44:29] <archivist> XXCoder, see bottom of page http://www.archivist.info/cnc/bench_micrometer/
[06:45:10] <XXCoder> very good
[06:45:24] <pink_vampire> any help with the rails?
[06:45:34] <archivist> temperature was low 15.5 deg c
[06:45:52] <XXCoder> unfortunately not from me as I dont know
[06:46:08] <XXCoder> archivist: youre clearly not in india
[06:46:11] <XXCoder> sad there :(
[06:46:33] <XXCoder> pink_vampire: LM guide may be nice one for that
[06:46:58] <XXCoder> interesting, just spotted "LM actuator" gonna look ingo that lol
[06:47:42] <XXCoder> pink_vampire: I have seen LM guides on very large machines, though they was all in least inch wide or umm 2? been a bit
[06:47:52] <XXCoder> tough rails
[06:48:34] <XXCoder> wow lm actuator is basically cnc kit lol
[06:48:43] <XXCoder> buy 3 of em and you got a cnc
[06:48:50] <pink_vampire> I can fit about 15mm rail
[06:48:51] <XXCoder> well besides missing motors and such
[06:49:21] <XXCoder> wow can barely even read
[06:49:28] <XXCoder> today was hell of a day at work
[06:49:41] <XXCoder> 4 setups, behind normal
[06:50:06] <XXCoder> and ALL 4 required reprogramming by me
[06:50:07] <XXCoder> fun
[06:50:47] <pink_vampire> I don't have a cnc machine
[06:50:59] <pink_vampire> the the Z axis is on my sofa
[06:53:22] <XXCoder> best bet is find out what Z assembly weights
[06:53:29] <XXCoder> and stuff like that
[06:53:35] <XXCoder> then find out if such rail supports it.
[06:54:45] <pink_vampire> the max torque on the spindle is 29.4N.m
[06:55:25] <XXCoder> add that to weight of entire spindle Z assembly, since you already has it off it should be easy enough
[06:55:44] <pink_vampire> the problem with the rails is to get the the stiffness
[06:55:46] <XXCoder> that PROBABLY is max N your rails would experence
[06:56:12] <pink_vampire> the smallest rail rated for more then 1000lbs.
[06:56:29] <pink_vampire> but how stiff it will be??
[06:57:03] <XXCoder> stiffness is not area I know unfortunately
[06:58:33] <pink_vampire> without stiffness that rail just flex.
[06:58:56] <XXCoder> indeed. I do know basics but behind that, like what would work and so on
[06:58:59] <XXCoder> that I dont know
[06:59:03] <XXCoder> you knows more.
[07:01:49] <pink_vampire> I want to calculate it for my current Z axis, and maybe to make New Z axis if I can't get the right amount of stiffness
[07:09:18] <Sync> the datasheet will give you stiffnesses
[07:09:25] <Sync> but a 16mm rail will be more than enough
[07:09:42] <XXCoder> Sync: that was what i guessed
[07:10:03] <XXCoder> hell, HUGE router I used to run had rails that size
[07:11:25] <XXCoder> heh I sorta miss that rpouter. though it had issues all over it
[07:11:35] <XXCoder> like spindle keeps overheating, and vacuum hold keep failing
[07:15:48] <archivist> rails rely on what they are bolted onto for the assembly stiffness
[07:21:14] <pink_vampire> Sync: I want to machine steel
[07:23:50] <archivist> what you want to machine is not that relevant to rail selection, you could have the same cutting load on almost any metal
[07:25:50] <Enccapsulation> anyone here running clearpaths?
[07:26:49] <pink_vampire> archivist: do you know how can I calculate it?
[07:28:09] <archivist> you have to measure spindle to column and calculate
[07:28:51] <archivist> but I bet you get nowhere near in practice with such a light machine
[07:29:36] <Enccapsulation> https://www.teknic.com/products/clearpath-brushless-dc-servo-motors/
[07:29:46] <Enccapsulation> how do I drive this? do I not need something like a gecko if I have these
[07:29:58] <Enccapsulation> they might actually be the same price, or similar if thats the case...
[07:30:10] <pink_vampire> step direction
[07:30:32] <pink_vampire> archivist: I will try to do it.
[07:30:38] <pink_vampire> now I have to sleep
[07:31:42] <XXCoder> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-3_axis_4_axis_kits/3-axis-nema23-350ozin-60v20a-psu-g230x-gecko-driver
[07:31:48] <XXCoder> little bit overkill for my machine lol
[07:32:03] <XXCoder> not too sure what thing in middle is
[07:33:03] <pink_vampire> I have the same kit but with the 1025oz in motors - work sweet
[07:33:29] <Enccapsulation> its no servo... not bad I guess
[07:33:49] <Enccapsulation> middle is a psu
[07:33:53] <Enccapsulation> I think
[07:34:04] <XXCoder> psu? lemm research
[07:34:12] <pink_vampire> 72V 20A
[07:34:25] <XXCoder> ah power supply
[07:34:35] <pink_vampire> to power the servos..
[07:35:20] <pink_vampire> but with linux cnc it's better to go with a H bridges ad encodes and mesa card
[07:36:00] <pink_vampire> what brand is better in rails thk or hiwin?
[07:49:08] <skunkworks> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1_oHNXSczw&feature=youtu.be
[07:52:03] <_methods> hehe that guy looks like george rr martin
[07:52:59] <_methods> ron ginger is grr martin's alias in cnc world
[07:53:05] <_methods> does he kill the lathe at the end?
[07:53:31] <XXCoder> grr martin some musician?
[07:53:47] <_methods> interesting placment of the ballnut
[07:54:00] <_methods> guess there isn't much room in the saddle to put it
[07:54:57] <archivist> very slow accelerations
[07:55:39] <_methods> you know i wonder how well an undermount rack and pinion would work on something like that
[07:55:50] <_methods> then you could put the motor under the saddle
[07:56:37] <skunkworks> sure seems like the threading is inconsistent... but hard to tell
[07:56:57] <archivist> skunkworks, it he running maaaaaack
[07:57:18] <skunkworks> yes - mach4 - encoder threading - WHoo hooo
[07:57:26] <_methods> heheh
[07:57:36] <archivist> silly boy
[07:57:54] <skunkworks> pokeys is currently the only interface that encoder threads
[07:57:58] <skunkworks> as far as I know
[07:58:25] <skunkworks> and the do some sort of time slipping in the external motion control to sync the spindle with the axis.
[07:58:40] <FinboySlick> To be fair, George rr Martin uses Wordstar. Mach4 just stays with the theme.
[07:58:46] <skunkworks> What is jt's site for mesa?
[07:58:54] <_methods> hahahah
[07:59:00] <_methods> wordstar=mach4
[07:59:22] <FinboySlick> To be fair to wordstar though, it was actually good.
[07:59:47] <skunkworks> ah - mesaus.com
[08:04:23] <archivist> is a seized d e witon chuck worth a jot
[08:04:36] <XXCoder> yes, its made from matter
[08:04:53] <XXCoder> behind that dunno
[08:05:11] <archivist> seems they date from 1900-1920
[08:06:28] <archivist> my village has garage sale on Monday just thinking of letting it go
[08:08:51] <XXCoder> https://geotopoi.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/penmaen-quarry-20120421-13-de-winton-locomotive-penmaen.jpg?w=700 ?
[08:10:37] <archivist> http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex/detail.aspx?id=2743&tab=6
[08:11:26] <XXCoder> interestin
[08:11:31] <XXCoder> dunno about its worth
[08:11:41] <XXCoder> but maybe it could be a fun project to restore
[08:11:53] <XXCoder> if not functional, mestium showpeice
[08:35:06] <Enccapsulation> I want a datron for christmas
[08:35:12] <Enccapsulation> someone plz
[08:37:34] <archivist> you are above your indecision limit, no
[08:55:11] <Loetmichel> archivist: hurrhurr ;)
[08:56:03] <Loetmichel> Enccapsulation: didnt you say you bought an 6040 already?
[09:08:22] <Enccapsulation> Loetmichel, the payment didnt go through because my bank was protecting me from fraud, after I thought it over I changed my mind
[09:08:31] <Enccapsulation> I did try to buy it though, yes
[09:09:35] <Enccapsulation> now I'm choosing between omio x6-2200l http://www.omiocnc.com/products/x6-2200l-usb.html or xzero raptor http://www.xzerocnc.com/raptor.htm
[09:10:18] <Enccapsulation> raptor is obvious choice except I;m worried about only 12"x vs 14", not huge I guess. Also concerned about putting it all together myself but maybe thats not too bad. Mostly confused about wire type guage conductors etc
[09:14:59] <Enccapsulation> I did buy a 3d printer, just to experiment with
[09:15:09] <Enccapsulation> nothing fancy, its a wanhao duplicator i3 clone, monoprice maker select v2
[09:15:16] <Enccapsulation> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjTjM7TsvrMAhWJOj4KHczfBX0QFggdMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.monoprice.com%2Fproduct%3Fp_id%3D13860&usg=AFQjCNF6VbTeT1GOmz50H4PZX6aBiuZQSQ&sig2=npOTt8IOm6QaNBb09Wovug
[09:15:20] <Enccapsulation> oops crappy url
[09:15:26] <Enccapsulation> http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=13860
[09:24:20] <Enccapsulation> er11 vs er20, will I regret er11?
[09:24:32] <Enccapsulation> I can't find a 110v ac spindle with larger than er11 except from omio
[09:24:50] <Enccapsulation> makes me think they are calling a 1.5kw spindle 2.2kw or they have a special custom source somehow
[09:25:08] <Enccapsulation> still doesnt explain the collet size unless thats the only real difference
[09:54:44] <Enccapsulation> if you were to purchase new drivers///controller today what would they be?
[09:59:48] <Enccapsulation> http://smoothieware.org/cnc-mill-guide what is something like this all about
[11:00:25] <maxcnc> hi all
[11:00:34] <maxcnc> thunder arond her in germany
[11:01:02] <maxcnc> Enccapsulation: still on
[11:03:00] <Enccapsulation> yes but I was just walking out the door
[11:03:19] <Enccapsulation> hot + cloudy here in USA
[11:03:21] <maxcnc> ok about your need where are you in the world
[11:03:25] <Enccapsulation> tomorrow 95f
[11:03:28] <Enccapsulation> east coast USA
[11:03:29] <maxcnc> USA ;-)
[11:03:55] <maxcnc> http://stores.ebay.de/wantmotor1207?_trksid=p2047675.l2563
[11:04:08] <maxcnc> look in that store for real good hevy mashinerie
[11:04:15] <maxcnc> low cost good Quality
[11:04:22] <maxcnc> USA stock
[11:04:25] <Enccapsulation> do you think those drivers are as good as leadshine 3660?
[11:04:33] <maxcnc> better
[11:04:45] <maxcnc> the 3660 is one for 3
[11:04:47] <Enccapsulation> and can I source 3x 391oz nema 23, 48v psu, and 3x driver for less than $360 usd?
[11:04:53] <maxcnc> so its cooling issue is bad
[11:04:55] <Enccapsulation> or you're saying its worth paying a little more
[11:05:10] <maxcnc> go for 75V at 1200oz
[11:05:12] <Enccapsulation> the above package is what george would sell me, if I buy from him
[11:05:25] <Enccapsulation> even on a 12x30" machine?
[11:05:26] <maxcnc> if you can go for 2005 ballscrew
[11:05:32] <Enccapsulation> I think it comes with 1605
[11:05:35] <maxcnc> then ad a 20/25 timingbelt
[11:06:01] <maxcnc> this gives you the I:1,25 for stepper vallsscrew performece
[11:06:23] <maxcnc> so 400Steps/4U
[11:06:28] <maxcnc> or 500/5U
[11:06:35] <maxcnc> its scale 100 per mm
[11:06:44] <Enccapsulation> I'm mostly looking for electronics irght now, but I will check out that ballscrew + belt
[11:06:56] <maxcnc> berst speed at best tourch
[11:07:47] <maxcnc> this is the best he has http://www.ebay.de/itm/Germany-Ship-Wantai-3Axis-Nema34-Stepper-Motor-1232oz-in-5-6A-Driver-7-8A-/321544888784?hash=item4add91a1d0
[11:07:56] <Enccapsulation> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wantai-3-Axis-Nema23-Stepper-Motor-57BYGH115-003B-425oz-in-Dual-Shaft-Driver-/221393501547?hash=item338c14bd6b
[11:08:09] <maxcnc> good to go
[11:08:24] <Enccapsulation> those motors wont be too big fore the small machine?
[11:08:44] <Enccapsulation> https://i.ytimg.com/vi/vF_Nn53JO4A/maxresdefault.jpg
[11:08:47] <Enccapsulation> thats the machine
[11:08:58] <maxcnc> no they are right
[11:09:08] <maxcnc> i sue them as standard here
[11:09:17] <maxcnc> but on 48V
[11:09:18] <Enccapsulation> http://www.workshopaddict.com/forum/attachments/machining-cnc-manual/13041d1424908072-30x60-cnc-router-assembly-build-dsc_0777.jpg
[11:09:20] <Enccapsulation> ok
[11:09:28] <Enccapsulation> maybe this is a better option for electronics
[11:10:04] <maxcnc> hight end mashine
[11:10:04] <Enccapsulation> looks like almost the same price, hm
[11:10:18] <maxcnc> Hwin rails ballscrew
[11:10:45] <maxcnc> 3Nm steppers at 48V will mill you all the mashine can take
[11:11:08] <maxcnc> please go for a timingbelt so you can stay at 4ßß
[11:11:20] <maxcnc> at 400 Steps
[11:11:26] <maxcnc> halfstepping
[11:11:33] <maxcnc> realy the best
[11:11:46] <Enccapsulation> ok
[11:14:23] <maxcnc> have a nice day in the USA
[11:14:39] <maxcnc> till later
[11:14:43] <maxcnc> BYE
[11:15:26] <Enccapsulation> ttyl
[11:15:27] <Enccapsulation> ty
[11:16:00] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATSUURA-VERTICAL-MACHINING-CENTER-MODEL-500-V2-/162082011827 $3500 or best
[11:16:40] <Enccapsulation> too far away =\
[11:16:51] <Enccapsulation> I bet that thing cranks out lowers though
[11:16:54] <Enccapsulation> wow
[11:17:52] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mori-Seiki-SL-1-CNC-Lathe-/152097935237 $3500
[11:18:10] <Enccapsulation> for barrels?
[11:18:24] <Enccapsulation> I do want a lathe eventually... too much $$$ though for now
[11:18:26] <gregcnc> america does produce more than guns
[11:18:47] <Enccapsulation> you're right
[11:18:48] <Enccapsulation> ammo too
[11:19:02] <Enccapsulation> xD
[11:19:06] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hitachi-Seiki-5NE-1100-CNC-Lathe-Haas-Mazak-MUST-GO-/322112143506 $2500 or best
[11:19:08] <Enccapsulation> ok, back to the grind, bbl
[11:19:39] <gregcnc> Capthindsight found you a manual lathe www.ebay.com/itm/222122050879
[11:20:32] <CaptHindsight> I don't like the color scheme
[11:21:08] <gregcnc> at least the chuck won't rust
[11:21:27] <CaptHindsight> haha "36" BAD WAYS" pass
[11:21:47] <gregcnc> another selling point
[11:23:35] <CaptHindsight> maybe http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mazak-Powercenter-V-15N-/322118941125 starts the bidding at $1k
[11:25:20] <gregcnc> somebody needed space www.ebay.com/itm/231953815794
[11:28:55] <CaptHindsight> missed that one
[11:30:47] <CaptHindsight> in woodstock http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mazak-VQC-20-50B-CNC-Bridge-Mill-Vertical-Machining-Center-Mazatrol-CAM-M-2/121996435882
[11:31:22] <CaptHindsight> Machine is operational, but the program controls need updating to properly function and the panel viewer is not working. Quotes for controls came in around $1500-$2000
[11:32:33] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mazak-New-Turbo-X48-Champion-CNC-CO2-Laser-Year-2000-1500-Watt-Mazatrol-Control/201591447239 bidding starts at $3k
[11:32:59] <CaptHindsight> The machine was working and then shipped during the winter. The cold weather busted some of the lines as the machine was not properly prepped for shipping.”
[11:33:27] <gregcnc> if the laser is water cooled...what's left?
[11:33:29] <CaptHindsight> coolant lines?
[11:34:43] <CaptHindsight> machine weight 21825 lbs
[11:35:40] <CaptHindsight> just add a $200 extruder and you'll have most ridiculous 3d printer on the planet
[11:36:38] <gregcnc> print what? hula hoops?
[11:37:26] <CaptHindsight> yoda head medallions the size of hula hoops
[11:37:54] <CaptHindsight> pizzas
[11:38:29] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: It might take a while to offset those new 15$/hr minimum wages.
[11:38:40] <gregcnc> reminds me I need to get on the pierogi machine design
[11:39:53] <CaptHindsight> they just need to start training people to drink their food, then all you need is a hose or cup filler at the drive thru
[11:40:46] <CaptHindsight> ~50% of the population likes to be told what to do anyway
[11:40:51] <gregcnc> I made a hamburger smoothie once....
[11:40:58] <FinboySlick> The new McD thick shake, now includes your big mac and fries.
[11:41:53] <gregcnc> www.soylent.com
[11:42:09] <FinboySlick> That large Mazak is such a lovely machine.
[11:42:18] <CaptHindsight> or if it's like a pizza or wafer it could be mass produced and then just sold as slices like soylent ^^
[11:49:51] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: the Clausing Seller info waaprapotoday (0 )
[11:50:33] <CaptHindsight> Member since: Mar-31-09 in United States
[11:50:46] <CaptHindsight> 7 years and no feedback?
[11:51:49] <gregcnc> a little odd but local enough to investigate if serious
[11:52:00] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/HARDINGE-LATHE-MACHINE/252393744373 3 to choose from $950
[11:52:33] <gregcnc> i think i saw those on CL
[11:53:33] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/MACHINIST-LATHE-MILL-Hardinge-Micro-Small-Bench-Lathe-with-Cross-Slide/191767331369 just attach a power belt to your water wheel
[11:54:31] <CaptHindsight> did they use the cross slide to hold parts to cut with a hacksaw?
[11:56:11] <gregcnc> sure looks that way
[12:09:56] <gregcnc> Friday https://youtu.be/vZVInv5GmgQ?t=44s
[12:11:52] <_methods> german mariachi band music
[12:13:14] <_methods> righteous usage of cnc technology though
[12:13:56] <_methods> maybe germans aren't so bad after all
[12:13:57] <ktchk> prosit
[12:14:01] <_methods> hahah
[12:14:13] <maxcnc> hi
[12:14:24] <_methods> nm i retract my last statement
[12:15:17] <maxcnc> ;-) _methods
[12:15:31] <_methods> hehe
[12:17:52] <maxcnc> cnc can be a drug woudent bekleve it 3years ago
[12:21:33] <CaptHindsight> _methods: my mom used to tell us Hitler jokes as kids, so they can learn to lighten up
[12:22:24] <maxcnc> oh today they anounced trump going for the big job
[12:22:39] <CaptHindsight> big job?
[12:22:58] <maxcnc> and the obama had a nice BBQ at the Hirochima shrine Fire
[12:23:25] <maxcnc> our angie brought the sausiges
[12:23:44] <CaptHindsight> is it still glowing?
[12:23:54] <maxcnc> and some creme by the french
[12:24:19] <maxcnc> best to see the socks of the scoolgirls around the place
[12:26:58] <CaptHindsight> LOL http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-nomination-photoshop-battle_us_5747ea01e4b03ede44146cce
[12:28:07] <maxcnc> he will win in a high number
[12:28:31] <maxcnc> as he tells the people what they like to hear nt what is the best for them
[12:28:36] <CaptHindsight> we might invade Germany again
[12:28:40] <maxcnc> thats the wa to do it
[12:29:07] <CaptHindsight> look under your beds for muslims
[12:29:17] <maxcnc> after you grept CEO go and thell them you want it so you pay it
[12:29:21] <CaptHindsight> leave a fence
[12:29:37] <maxcnc> oh we gotr about 100 refuges here
[12:29:58] <maxcnc> sometimes you might see one but there are more foreners then them
[12:30:18] <maxcnc> fo instance 50.000US soldiers
[12:30:46] <maxcnc> seen more drunk Marines then praying muslims
[12:31:26] <CaptHindsight> drunk is fine
[12:31:37] <maxcnc> yes the<y like german beer
[12:31:40] <CaptHindsight> having dark skin and wearing a head wrap is scary
[12:32:11] <CaptHindsight> don't worry they will update the homeland handbook
[12:32:30] <CaptHindsight> all the new rules will be there
[12:32:54] <maxcnc> yes this wek the US Gov gave 800Mio Dllars free for the new Hospital
[12:32:55] <CaptHindsight> profit trumps all!
[12:33:38] <CaptHindsight> profit macht frei
[12:33:50] <maxcnc> and 5000 marines will come from the UK as they brexit
[12:34:07] <maxcnc> CaptHindsight: if he success
[12:34:24] <maxcnc> most of his companies diddent so far
[12:34:54] <maxcnc> about 24% success and over 70% faild in total
[12:35:24] <maxcnc> sold out US the Chinese will stand in line first
[12:35:55] <CaptHindsight> facts don't matter
[12:35:57] <maxcnc> india is next then Africa and Europ last as they dont like the Dividor
[12:36:05] <maxcnc> AGREE
[12:36:14] <CaptHindsight> you are thinking about this too deeply
[12:36:26] <maxcnc> the loudest yeller always wins in redneck states
[12:36:38] <CaptHindsight> he just says whatever to be popular and does whatever makes him a profit
[12:36:40] <maxcnc> like scotland
[12:36:58] <maxcnc> no he thinks twice
[12:37:15] <CaptHindsight> he's upset about the housing collapse in 08'
[12:37:41] <maxcnc> white house is not for selling i think
[12:37:56] <maxcnc> its only to be rent
[12:38:21] <maxcnc> who ever takes over it is the hardest job on earth
[12:38:22] <CaptHindsight> he's upset about all the things that caused him to lose profit over the past 20 years
[12:38:47] <maxcnc> so marriage is the firt to go after
[12:39:01] <CaptHindsight> so if he wins expect lots of payback and new trade deals all set in his favor
[12:39:03] <maxcnc> devorce rules need to be overlooked
[12:39:44] <maxcnc> ivana still gets near 10mio a month
[12:39:48] <CaptHindsight> he's an opportunist that has taken over control of the zombies created by the right wing over the past 30-40 years
[12:41:13] <CaptHindsight> he's used their propaganda and nudged their zombies behind him
[12:41:56] <maxcnc> but the small people that now fight for thee living will be the once that pay the price
[12:42:22] <maxcnc> like a spider waiting in his net to get them
[12:42:25] <CaptHindsight> he has a better PR team than Rove and Co
[12:43:27] <maxcnc> i personly woudt go for him as a educated person to see how the 3rd greadest economic in the world can cope with one person like him
[12:43:54] <CaptHindsight> the arrogance of the right wing establishment has bitten them in the buttocks, they thought that they could keep control of their followers
[12:44:23] <maxcnc> hi CNC-Router
[12:44:56] <CaptHindsight> it's like watching a bunch of alcoholics and addicts hit rock bottom
[12:45:00] <maxcnc> F1 ,F2, G0 z Bottom ;-)
[12:45:20] <ktchk> Oh shit trump was having money problem with Hong Kong company New World Development Company Ltd
[12:45:38] <ktchk> http://www.targetnewspapers.com/TolfinWeb/public/updates/articles/Articles%202005/0512/051216A.HTM
[12:45:40] <maxcnc> ktchk: take it over
[12:46:06] <ktchk> how?
[12:46:34] <maxcnc> hemight be the first US president to not be invided to states
[12:46:59] <maxcnc> ktchk: ask donald he might give you some money
[12:47:21] <ktchk> US gov money??
[12:47:28] <CaptHindsight> nah, it will be like watching the Apprentice on steroids
[12:47:35] <maxcnc> he has been the first bilionair that ruied a casino
[12:48:14] <CaptHindsight> well his hands were tied in many ways
[12:48:28] <CaptHindsight> now he can really profiteer
[12:48:43] <CaptHindsight> change legislation in his favor
[12:48:45] <maxcnc> http://www.abb-rlp.de/hospital-weilerbach/
[12:49:53] <maxcnc> google pictures "us hospital weilerbach"
[12:50:34] <maxcnc> http://deutsche-wirtschafts-nachrichten.de/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/weilerbach.jpg
[12:51:16] <maxcnc> look at its build like a Casel of the 800century with a water grave around so no terrorist can swimm into it
[12:51:45] <maxcnc> 800mio US Gov money to our region here in germany
[12:52:00] <maxcnc> OK well it will save alot of soliers life
[12:52:15] <maxcnc> and there will be birth to alot of foreiners babys
[12:53:03] <maxcnc> i will close early today so lets say good bye to you all in the world
[12:53:13] <ktchk> German foreiner?
[12:53:23] <ktchk> bye
[12:53:33] <maxcnc> no only from out EU
[12:53:50] <maxcnc> EU birth is at the local hospital
[13:01:31] <CaptHindsight> maxcnc: Monday is a major holiday in the US
[13:01:46] <CaptHindsight> so this is a long holiday weekend
[13:02:18] <CaptHindsight> maxcnc: what area are you in?
[13:02:33] <maxcnc> 4th of juli firerworks here a big deal also
[13:02:41] <maxcnc> oh no
[13:02:46] <maxcnc> one month to go
[13:02:53] <maxcnc> so what is the holiday
[13:02:57] <CaptHindsight> this is Memorial Day
[13:03:17] <maxcnc> im in around Ramstein
[13:03:49] <CaptHindsight> remembrance of those who died in the armed forces
[13:04:51] <CaptHindsight> so there's always some news story with US vets meeting with ex-Nazis and shaking hands at some WWII site
[13:05:47] <djdelorie> Around here the scouts go through all the graveyards replacing the little flags with new ones
[13:13:55] <CaptHindsight> maxcnc: there was a fellow from the same area that used to be in this channel daily
[13:14:28] <CaptHindsight> he retired to work as a park ranger where there is no internet or phone service
[13:15:02] <maxcnc> yes he takes over the shop on1Aug
[13:15:24] <maxcnc> no more rome Electrons will come back
[13:16:48] <CaptHindsight> he coming back?
[13:16:58] <CaptHindsight> !
[13:18:14] <maxcnc> yes the projekt fails 2years bevor sceduel
[13:18:37] <CaptHindsight> ich something
[13:19:15] <maxcnc> yes IchGucksLive
[13:19:23] <maxcnc> im sitting in his shop
[13:19:35] <maxcnc> at his keyboard
[13:19:41] <maxcnc> but not his PC
[13:19:53] <maxcnc> im his brother in law
[13:20:03] <CaptHindsight> small world
[13:20:12] <CaptHindsight> how has he been?
[13:20:16] <maxcnc> his pc ir 3feet to the left still with all 10.04
[13:20:26] <CaptHindsight> happy and healthy?
[13:20:34] <maxcnc> ive seen im only 4times since
[13:20:55] <maxcnc> pcw_home: ?
[13:21:38] <pcw_home> yes?
[13:21:57] <maxcnc> yust in i the last minutes http://heimwerkermarkt-tretter.de/schrank.jpg
[13:22:33] <maxcnc> 4new mashines tomorrow on your electronics
[13:24:59] <maxcnc> ok hyprtherm is on standby
[13:26:41] <maxcnc> pcw_home: do you think the mount of the parts are related to the HF issues i got with the new versions on 7i76
[13:31:36] <pcw_home> There have been no 7I76 changes for a number of years (but there were some LinuxCNC 2.7 bugs pre 2.7.4)
[13:32:03] <maxcnc> ok
[13:32:57] <Encapuiation> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7d5J46hroCI
[13:32:58] <Encapuiation> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByRpKzjSHro
[13:33:05] <Encapuiation> does 2nd machine sound like crap in comparison?
[13:33:38] <Encapuiation> that workpiece fixturing is also questionable...
[13:33:46] <Encapuiation> so maybe not a fair comparison
[13:34:01] <gregcnc> if questionable = shitty
[13:34:26] <Encapuiation> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awah4PXwAAo
[13:34:31] <Encapuiation> 6040///x6 can do better I think
[13:34:55] <maxcnc> im off BYE
[13:35:42] <Encapuiation> ttyl
[13:39:40] <witnit> das schrank.jpg ist gut
[13:45:47] <CaptHindsight> No more traffic jams! New China "bus-way" is part subway part bus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzjzONPODvo
[13:46:20] <CaptHindsight> plus it will really teach any lane straddlers to not do that by being crush or push off the road
[13:46:32] <CaptHindsight> crush/crushed
[13:48:27] <CaptHindsight> slides to exit, maybe a vacuum pulls you inside?
[13:54:55] <djdelorie> motorcyclists beware...
[13:57:27] <Encapuiation> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI59DzffaBU&t=11m0s interesting machine
[13:58:53] <Encapuiation> http://www.ebay.com/itm/24x36-cnc-router-ON-SALE-freeship-JCUT-6090A-/141986937713 orr http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-6090-CNC-Router-Engraver-Machine-23-6-x35-5-x4-WorkSize-Free-Sea-Shipping-/131828786830
[14:00:23] <_methods> catamaran bus
[14:02:08] <Encapuiation> are er16 or er20 collet not available in 110v
[14:03:14] <_methods> http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/96-dr-henry-heimlich-uses-his-own-technique-first-time-n581666
[14:03:19] <_methods> i guess he can die happy now
[14:03:45] <_methods> his cousin heinrich himmler however did not die so happy
[14:04:13] <_methods> or is he heinrich himmler in disguise
[14:04:18] <_methods> as henry heimlich
[14:05:19] <alex4nder> wut
[14:05:24] <Encapuiation> +1
[14:05:33] <CaptHindsight> much better than the first version... a punch to the gut
[14:05:50] <_methods> the himmler manuever
[14:06:19] <alex4nder> I just want to say: my mesa stepgen works so much better than my old software setu
[14:06:22] <alex4nder> p
[14:06:22] <CaptHindsight> not to be confused with the Hindlick ....
[14:06:38] <_methods> hehe
[14:06:40] <alex4nder> my taig moving at 100 IPM is ridiculous
[14:07:24] <_methods> zoom zoom
[14:07:43] <CaptHindsight> everyone has already left for the weekend
[14:07:55] <_methods> i should be at teh house myself
[14:07:57] <CaptHindsight> no more calls or emails until Tuesday
[14:08:05] <_methods> got a truck full of aluminum to cut up
[14:08:13] <CaptHindsight> except fer the ferniers
[14:11:26] <Encapuiation> are er16 or er20 collet not available in 110v
[14:11:31] <Encapuiation> is er11 collet limiting
[14:11:52] <Encapuiation> shopping for my spindle
[14:13:19] <gregcnc> this last rate hike from USPS has made international shipping jsut stupid
[14:14:04] <CaptHindsight> really, now so?
[14:14:31] <gregcnc> 4Lbs to UK first class is 50$
[14:14:43] <CaptHindsight> it's still the best deal for <20lb packages
[14:15:02] <CaptHindsight> have you priced DHL, UPS and FEDEX for the same?
[14:15:06] <PCW> last package we sent to Australia via USPS went all the way to China and bounced back
[14:15:08] <gregcnc> not yet
[14:15:23] <CaptHindsight> will all be over $100
[14:15:25] <gregcnc> but I'm sure there isn't a cheaper way
[14:15:33] <Encapuiation> ??
[14:15:49] <Encapuiation> nobody here know about collets?
[14:16:03] <gregcnc> google know a lot about collets
[14:16:14] <Encapuiation> I check there
[14:16:14] <CaptHindsight> if it's over 150lbs I use consolidated UPS and drop off in Elk Grove
[14:16:28] <Encapuiation> can;t find 1.5kw water spindle that is 110v
[14:16:30] <Encapuiation> only 220v
[14:16:42] <Encapuiation> and 800w spindle only hs er11 collet
[14:16:45] <Encapuiation> 1.5kw has er16
[14:16:50] <Encapuiation> er11 collet tiny tools....
[14:16:55] <Encapuiation> I dont want to make that kind of mistake
[14:16:56] <djdelorie> try www.iknowalotaboutcollets.com
[14:17:01] <CaptHindsight> sometimes I use heavy packing to get it over 150lbs since the rates are far less than regular package service
[14:17:12] <Encapuiation> why trolling djdelorie ?
[14:17:14] <Encapuiation> you're better than that
[14:17:32] <djdelorie> we already answered your questions a month or two ago
[14:17:36] <Encapuiation> no you didnt
[14:17:43] <Encapuiation> well yes
[14:17:49] <Encapuiation> but those were other questions
[14:17:50] <Encapuiation> not these
[14:18:08] <Encapuiation> I'm trying to pick a specific spindle and electronics now, for my machine
[14:18:20] <djdelorie> although it does seem like every time I try a "try www.<obvious-answer>.com" joke, there is such a site...
[14:18:30] <gregcnc> that's fun when shipping more gets a better rate
[14:18:32] <djdelorie> you should have picked a machine a month ago
[14:18:32] <Encapuiation> I tried it, no good
[14:18:46] <Encapuiation> the site I mean
[14:18:48] <Encapuiation> it didnt work
[14:18:49] <djdelorie> I get my tire chains from www.tirechains.com for example, that started as a joke reference
[14:19:13] <Encapuiation> I'm sure you can buy books at www.books.com , cnc machines at www.cnc-machines.com
[14:19:16] <CaptHindsight> airport to airport is the best deal
[14:19:44] <CaptHindsight> it can easily be 1/3 of door to door
[14:19:55] <gregcnc> so china to here is free, but we pay for it by shipping anyhtign out
[14:20:04] <CaptHindsight> yup
[14:20:28] <CaptHindsight> take you congress of the 90's-00's
[14:20:38] <CaptHindsight> take/thank
[14:21:03] <Encapuiation> "free"
[14:21:07] <Encapuiation> or hidden in the cost already
[14:21:10] <CaptHindsight> practically no duties as well from China
[14:21:48] <_methods> that should all change if trumps elected and the trade wars begin
[14:21:51] <CaptHindsight> see, but it created jobs here :)
[14:22:16] <CaptHindsight> you can't argue with facts and history :)
[14:22:18] <Encapuiation> DT2016
[14:22:46] <CaptHindsight> 50% import on anything
[14:22:52] <_methods> hehe
[14:23:26] <Encapuiation> xD
[14:24:23] <CaptHindsight> but most of the west was in on it
[14:24:43] <CaptHindsight> imports from china had next to no duties
[14:25:26] <CaptHindsight> now its piper paying time
[14:25:54] <gregcnc> it screws any little guy hoping to sell their product direct to people outside the US
[14:27:09] <CaptHindsight> people have been voting against their best interests for decades
[14:27:16] <_methods> heh
[14:27:24] <CaptHindsight> dreaming of being the next trump
[14:27:59] <CaptHindsight> keep the guberment out of my medicare!
[14:28:00] <_methods> thirst mutilator time
[14:28:14] <CaptHindsight> way ahead of yah
[14:29:15] <CaptHindsight> speaking of China https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq-I0JRhvt4
[14:29:30] <CaptHindsight> Raw racism...
[14:33:49] <Encapuiation> lol
[14:42:13] <Zew> linuxcnc?
[14:42:23] <Zew> linuxcnc =~ emc?
[14:43:04] <Zew> i tried to join emc channel as was connected here
[14:43:21] <Zew> Anyone use EMC devices here?
[14:44:13] <Deejay> emc suxx
[14:44:17] <Deejay> linuxcnc wins ;)
[14:44:43] <skunkworks_> EMC was the name of the enhanced machine controller... It was forced to be changed by the EMC server company.
[14:46:32] <djdelorie> in case you were confused about whether we were a CNC controller or a storage system
[14:49:42] <Zew> oh ffs
[14:49:45] <Zew> lol
[14:50:05] <Zew> I know EMC sucks, but I can't pick n choose what my company picked before I joined haha
[14:50:21] <Zew> I'm just doing my best to make things better, but thanks for all the replies :D
[14:50:59] <Zew> So CNC controll, like almost any type of CNC machine?
[14:51:24] <skunkworks_> linuxcnc is an open source machine controller running on linux
[14:51:27] <Zew> what about 3D printers
[14:51:42] <skunkworks_> people have used it for 3d printers too.
[14:51:47] <Zew> neat
[14:52:08] <Zew> the hackerspace I goto uses a mkaerbot?
[14:52:30] <Zew> makerbot or soemthing similiar, controlled by an arduino
[14:53:06] <skunkworks_> sure - arduino has a firmware called grbl that is used a lot for 3d printing. maybe others.
[14:53:08] <Zew> would this linuxcnc, replace an arduino a micro controller persa, or just be the middle man sending controlls to the micro controller?
[14:53:44] <Zew> or is it scalable to do eithe ror
[14:53:57] <Zew> one would assume your linux machine would have some I/O pins
[14:54:33] <skunkworks_> yes - parallel port or some interface hardware
[14:54:35] <Zew> heres a good question, can you run lcnc on the Pis?!?
[14:54:47] <Zew> I have a Pi one and a Pi2 both Rev B
[14:55:04] <Zew> skunkworks_: tahts soo cool
[14:56:13] <Zew> I always wanted to get more into the physcial world of programing/coding using motors and stuff, it got scarred away in late high school cause it got so complex with their matrix's
[14:56:16] <skunkworks_> Zew, light reading
[14:56:18] <skunkworks_> http://forum.linuxcnc.org/forum/search?query=raspberry&childforums=1
[14:57:05] <Zew> hahahahah Woah is that a GPIO/ Pata adapter hahah
[14:57:36] <Zew> why are all the sub comments in french ahah
[14:58:02] <skunkworks_> linuxcnc needs a a realtime patched kernel so it doesn't play well on all hardware
[14:59:00] <Zew> https://www.linux.com/blog/intro-real-time-linux-embedded-developers
[14:59:07] <djdelorie> is there a summary page of what versions of RTAI and RT_PREEMPT work, and which distros support which kernels?
[14:59:20] <Zew> never heard of RTP kernel so reading up on it, I've heard of emedded systems
[15:00:05] <skunkworks_> hey - shouldn't you be working? ;)
[15:00:14] <Zew> sigh.. yes
[15:00:19] <Zew> but its read only friday
[15:00:24] <_methods> hehe
[15:00:25] <skunkworks_> Look - squirrel!
[15:00:30] <Zew> so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[15:00:43] <CaptHindsight> Zew: the Linuxcnc ISO has everything as far as the RT kernel
[15:01:09] <PCW> Didnt someone on the mailing list get decent latency from Preempt-RT and a RPI3? I think the vanilla RPI was fairly hopeless for software stepgen but the RPI3 looked good
[15:01:11] <CaptHindsight> Zew: you just need to mod a config file for simple 3 axis machines
[15:01:42] <CaptHindsight> PCW: RPi3 and 7i90 iirc
[15:01:58] <Zew> CaptHindsight: still hardware specific for the most part eh, arch (I'm assuimg x86?)
[15:02:23] <CaptHindsight> it makes me ill but it's the only way to get a real time GUI and Linuxcnc working on ARM well
[15:02:40] <Zew> Not a huge fan of the ARM arch
[15:02:56] <CaptHindsight> you can use the 3-7 extra cores and do software rendering on other ARM soc's but it's a bit of work
[15:03:08] <Zew> wasted overhead
[15:03:46] <Zew> usually what I feel with transcoding now-a-days, if you end device can playh teh container natively, get a better end device
[15:05:38] <PCW> If you want to run "LinuxCNC" on small/ARM The beaglebone+machinkit is probably the easiest way
[15:06:10] <PCW> unless you like futzing about a lot
[15:20:54] <Zew> hahahah nope
[15:21:06] <Zew> I'm now more into following tuts and stuff other have already tried
[15:21:21] <Zew> I'v ehad my fun, trying, googling, reading endless threads, or nothing at all
[15:49:26] <Encapuiation> talking to george about the mahcine
[15:49:31] <Encapuiation> dont want to rush into anything here
[15:49:33] <Encapuiation> getting closer though
[15:49:54] <Encapuiation> I hope I don't regret an er11 collet
[15:50:00] <Encapuiation> its looking like thats what I have to get
[15:54:28] <Encapuiation> cant order until I know.... shit
[15:54:57] <Encapuiation> also, max was saying the wantai drivers and motors on ebay are better than the leadshine 3660 kit george will sell me... would be nice to confirm that
[15:56:09] <Encapuiation> what is everyon ehere using for wire///wire source
[15:56:13] <Encapuiation> for spiundle + steppers
[15:56:21] <Encapuiation> limits I would just use anything I'm guessing, the others not so clear
[15:59:53] <Encapuiation> https://www.teknic.com/products/clearpath-brushless-dc-servo-motors/ god these are sexy as fuck
[16:00:45] <Encapuiation> it's not clear ow they are driven by linuxcnc though, hardware wise
[16:00:55] <Encapuiation> do they connect right to PSU + parallel pins?
[16:01:02] <Encapuiation> step//dir
[16:01:16] <Encapuiation> driver is built in it seems, but not sure where they connect in that case
[16:03:31] <alex4nder> Encapuiation: it depends.. but you'd most likely do step/dir
[16:03:45] <alex4nder> you could do SK or HP
[16:08:05] <djdelorie> Encapuiation: the clearpath servos replace, for example, a stepper+gecko combo - so yes, they can connect directly to PSU+parallel
[16:08:31] <XXCoder> is there such thing as cheap servo cnc nema 23 standard kit? lol
[16:08:47] <Encapuiation> XXCoder, these clearpath are fairly cheap
[16:08:51] <djdelorie> only if you scratch the word "cheap" :-)
[16:08:54] <Encapuiation> $250 each and no drivers needed
[16:08:56] <alex4nder> cheap is relative
[16:09:02] <djdelorie> "less expensive than other industrial packages" perhaps
[16:09:06] <alex4nder> but $250 is cheap
[16:09:07] <XXCoder> alex4nder: true
[16:09:07] <Encapuiation> still more than I'd like to spend right now I think... but nice to know it wouldnt be hard to upgrade later
[16:09:08] <alex4nder> to me
[16:09:20] <alex4nder> the amount of time I get to spend on my machine is the limiting factor
[16:09:31] <alex4nder> not the price of my hobby machine
[16:09:32] <XXCoder> alex4nder: just doing basic research for evenual day I upgrade my cnc router
[16:09:40] <djdelorie> compared to $20 steppers and a rambo board, they're expensive
[16:09:52] <djdelorie> they're cheaper than *my* servos and controllers, though, and I made those myself
[16:09:54] <Encapuiation> true, but did you see the video of the disc and the pin =P
[16:10:04] <alex4nder> djdelorie: it's only cheaper if all you care about is BoM
[16:10:12] <alex4nder> do you care about skipped steps/stalling?
[16:10:20] <Encapuiation> no skipped stepps with servo
[16:10:25] <Encapuiation> =D
[16:10:25] <alex4nder> Encapuiation: my point exactly
[16:10:27] <djdelorie> alex4nder: my machine has servos, and yes, I care
[16:10:35] <XXCoder> yeah no skipped steps
[16:10:35] <alex4nder> djdelorie: right, which is why I'm saying cheap is relative
[16:10:41] <JT-Shop> damn tool changer is not working
[16:10:47] <XXCoder> though I am also considering "closed loop steppers"
[16:11:15] <djdelorie> for the cost and complexity of closed loop steppers, why not go servo? Is there still an advantage to steppers in that use case?
[16:11:24] <alex4nder> Encapuiation: I'm thinking I'm going to use a clearpath SD HP as a 4th axis/lathe spindle
[16:11:38] <alex4nder> with hardware stepgen, it should work well
[16:11:45] <XXCoder> djdelorie: yeah so far it seems hardly cheaper
[16:11:51] <djdelorie> heh, my machine doesn't even lose steps when you command it to go 2 feet outside the build envelope
[16:12:49] <enleth> Encapuiation: there are also NanoTec steppers with integrated power regulators (they accept 12-48V DC unregulated) and drives capable of step/dir or analog velocity/torque/position control
[16:13:00] <djdelorie> (it waits for you to command it to return, then picks up where it can)
[16:13:04] <enleth> basically steppers that can emulate servos
[16:13:57] <enleth> XXCoder: ah, you mentioned that
[16:17:23] <Encapuiation> Encapuiation, I'll chec kthose out too
[16:17:54] <Encapuiation> I'm probably going to just go with georges 48v psu 3x 391oz nema 23s steppers and leadshine 3660 for $360 usd, unless someone knows of a better option around that price
[16:18:06] <Encapuiation> servos seem like I'll add later if needed, about 900 usd for those
[16:18:33] <Encapuiation> and if these wantai motors are nice, only $250
[16:19:06] <Encapuiation> http://www.ebay.com/itm/USA-Free-Wantai-3Axis-Nema23-CNC-57BYGH115-003B-3A-425oz-Dual-Shaft-Driver-542-/321348516358?hash=item4ad1dd3a06:g:U78AAOxyaTxROXX2
[16:19:08] <Encapuiation> $225 even
[16:19:34] <Encapuiation> can someone please tell me if I would want to choose that kit, or georges leadshine 3660 kit
[16:19:44] <Encapuiation> I need to tell him for hte paypal invoice
[16:21:10] <Encapuiation> I can figure out the spindle later but I can't get the machine on order without knowing this
[16:22:10] <JT-Shop> crap takes an hour to get the drive motor off, 2 seconds to reset the carosel and a hour to put it all back
[16:22:33] <Encapuiation> rq
[16:24:06] <alex4nder> https://www.teknic.com/model-info/CPM-SDHP-3421P-ELN/ <- this might be a solid motor to run a lathe spindle
[16:25:23] <alex4nder> for something like an er16 spindle on a taig
[16:26:07] <Deejay> gn8
[16:26:25] <Encapuiation> teknic makes nice spindle
[16:26:36] <Encapuiation> wait
[16:26:46] <Encapuiation> I'm thinking of techno spindle xD too much
[16:27:01] <Encapuiation> that servo is pricy
[16:27:06] <alex4nder> yah, it is
[16:30:19] <alex4nder> they're also limited by a step fequency of 500kHz
[16:30:23] <alex4nder> so that would figure into it
[16:33:46] <alex4nder> with hardware stepgen I guess that'd be ok
[17:07:19] <JT-Shop> builder just called and the price of metal is going up 20% over the next couple of months
[17:08:47] <malcom2073> alex4nder: That limits it to an rpm of 5000, which is above he max speed anyway
[17:26:20] <FloppyDisk> eeekkss... Need to stop by the recycler and get me some aluminum deals...
[17:26:42] <FloppyDisk> Did you get the toolchanger working?
[17:27:11] <Frank_1> hi:D
[17:28:25] <alex4nder> malcom2073: yup
[17:29:50] <alex4nder> I might just wuss-out and pick up the sherline rotary table w/ stepper, to start with.
[17:30:12] <alex4nder> since the teknic setup with a spindle and chuck will end up being > $1k
[18:04:06] <Frank_1> guys, stupid question, but cant find a stupid answer :) , my servo tech reference says the drive can work with either, (input position control) a)positive negative, b)Phase a/Phase b, or 3)COMMAND/direction, is it ok to assume command is step? like a normal stepper? thanks
[18:11:36] <malcom2073> Frank_1: Link to the technical reference?
[18:13:41] <Frank_1> yes sir,at 3/4 of page 5 as pdf reads, https://www.panasonic-electric-works.com/cps/rde/xbcr/pew_eu_en/mn_63789_0700_en_minas_liqi_technical_reference.pdf
[18:14:49] * Encapsulation waits for the phone
[18:15:44] <malcom2073> It seems that way Frank_1
[18:16:00] <malcom2073> Page 6 details the pulse and direction pins
[18:16:32] <Frank_1> yes, thanks
[18:19:16] <Encapsulation> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lprLZ3EP_w
[18:22:09] <Frank_1> holy cow, i thought for 1 sec that that thing was going to come out through the screen
[18:23:21] <XXCoder> Encapsulation: whats wrong with it?
[18:23:28] <XXCoder> I see weird markings on screw
[18:27:45] <XXCoder> how strange.
[18:28:02] <XXCoder> Mr. Heimlich used his invention for first time, when hes 96
[18:36:14] <arauchfuss> So how does halscope work with a mesa card?
[18:36:22] <arauchfuss> some sort of loopback?
[18:37:19] <Encapsulation> XXCoder, not sure
[18:37:33] <XXCoder> your machine or video you saw?
[18:37:37] <Encapsulation> video I saw
[18:37:41] <Encapsulation> of same machine though
[18:37:46] <Encapsulation> well different, similar
[18:38:26] <Encapsulation> trying to determine now if its worth getting 7" high z clearance vs 4"
[18:38:33] <Encapsulation> or if that will decrease rigidity too much
[18:38:35] <Encapsulation> its an option
[18:38:59] <Encapsulation> he says it might flex more on heavy cuts
[18:39:07] <XXCoder> can always add ribs
[18:39:18] <XXCoder> increase rigidity without too ,much material
[18:39:34] <XXCoder> not sure how exactly it works but saw it on some machines
[18:39:46] <Encapsulation> I';ll have to look into it
[18:40:20] <archivist> arauchfuss, it is looking at hal pins not external connections
[18:41:31] <archivist> arauchfuss, if they are equal it effectively does look at external
[18:43:04] <Encapsulation> would it be a mistake to get the 7" clearance instead of 5" cleatraqnce on Z? he said it wouldnt hurt accuracy but could flex on heavy cut
[18:43:21] <arauchfuss> I was curious because I could actually see some noise on the leading and trailing edge of the pwmgen signal.
[18:43:36] <Encapsulation> https://i.ytimg.com/vi/vF_Nn53JO4A/maxresdefault.jpg
[18:43:39] <Encapsulation> this is the machine in question
[18:44:17] <XXCoder> interesting
[18:44:36] <Encapsulation> its $80 more
[18:44:44] <Encapsulation> for 7" z vs 5" clearance
[18:44:45] <Encapsulation> same travel
[18:44:47] <Encapsulation> its taller arms
[18:44:55] <Encapsulation> I dont want to make the machine less rigid though...
[18:45:02] <Encapsulation> he needs to know fo the invoice
[18:45:48] <Encapsulation> "flex" doesnt sound good
[18:46:02] <Encapsulation> he said its used more for people who want to clear a tall 4th axis
[18:46:23] <Encapsulation> which I like th eidea of maybe going 4th axis, but not sure I need the full 7" to do that for small knobs
[18:48:23] <Encapsulation> anyone?
[18:48:31] <archivist> size of 4th axis matters more then knob size
[18:49:19] * Encapsulation goes to google average 4th axis height
[18:50:06] <enleth> Encapsulation: go for it, it looks like most flex in this one is going to be on the Z adapte plate anyway and that won't be affected much
[18:50:20] <enleth> the gantry supports are nice and thick for this machine size
[18:50:34] <enleth> *adapter
[18:50:44] <Encapsulation> so the extra z height wont hurt it and will give me more options down the road, enleth ?
[18:52:00] <enleth> Encapsulation: well, the most added flex will be when you're milling thin stuff - the spindle will need to reach further down below the gantry to get close to the table, *however*, you can just put something thick on the table and attach your material to that
[18:52:36] <enleth> when you do this, the only difference between your machine and a lower clearance one is the length of gantry supports which appear adequate
[18:52:59] <enleth> so in short: if you have a high Z clearance machine and want to mill thin stuff, pad the table to have the stuff closer to the gantry
[18:53:05] <archivist> some serious height needed for a 4mm dia http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=escape+watch
[18:53:13] <archivist> 3mm dia
[18:54:52] <archivist> and note the tools are extended to get past half the rotary diameter
[18:55:47] <Encapsulation> wow
[18:55:51] <Encapsulation> and ty Encapsulation
[18:55:54] <Encapsulation> enleth, *
[18:58:13] <enleth> Encapsulation: for the padding, get a bunch of MDF sheets cut to the size of the table and drilled through so you can bolt a stack of however many you need to the table, then attach your stuff to the top sheet
[18:58:39] <enleth> laminated MDF is nice and uniform in thickness, it will be adequate for a machine if this size and power
[18:59:14] <Encapsulation> what if I wanted to use a vice with something on the t table though
[18:59:25] <Encapsulation> then I would be at a disadvantage compared to the 5" z height?
[18:59:30] <Encapsulation> in terms of rigity
[18:59:30] <enleth> you can even mill a slot/recess in a sheet to locate your stock with some decent repeatability
[18:59:38] <enleth> no, just pad the vise
[19:00:16] <enleth> it will be fine if you bolt it tightly with long lug nuts or threaded rods through the layers of MDF
[19:01:03] <enleth> insert T-nuts into the table, put the MDF on top with the holes lining up with T-nuts, put the vise on top, apply bolts
[19:02:14] <Encapsulation> hmm
[19:02:15] <enleth> MDF molded into shape at crazy pressures, it won't compress anymore with the force you might be able to apply using two 8M threaded rods
[19:02:24] <enleth> *M8
[19:02:34] <enleth> or whatever inch size is that for this machine
[19:03:06] <Encapsulation> so I would only need to raise it up the difference, to compensate?
[19:03:08] <Encapsulation> 2"
[19:03:23] <enleth> or higher if you work on really thin material
[19:03:44] <Encapsulation> I'm going to be routing control panels and doing pcbs
[19:03:58] <Encapsulation> 1-2mm aluminum
[19:05:05] <enleth> so just pad it until the Z is roughly in the middle of its travel for the tool to almost touch the stock
[19:07:02] <Encapsulation> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rotational-Rotary-Axis-A-Axis-4th-Axis-CNC-63MM-3-Jaw-Chuck-Reducing-Gear-Box-/161752416390? this would fit even under the shoter one
[19:08:05] <enleth> yeah, but if you can get the taller one for close to no extra money, just do it. for this type of machine, padding the table is really more than enough
[19:09:37] <Encapsulation> well its another 80 more it keeps adding up, why would I want it taller other than to clear a taller 4th axis
[19:10:21] <XXCoder> work on much thicker wood blocks
[19:10:35] <XXCoder> for example if you want decal on chopping block
[19:10:50] <XXCoder> honestly more height means more flexability
[19:10:58] <Encapsulation> and in a good wya you mean?
[19:11:03] <XXCoder> expecially if spindle can go all way down even with added height
[19:11:21] <XXCoder> yes heh
[19:11:40] <enleth> Encapsulation: you might need to mill a non-removable side of an enclosure, for example
[19:12:20] <Encapsulation> good point
[19:12:23] <Encapsulation> ok
[19:12:48] <enleth> besides, you want MDF padding for the table anywa
[19:12:51] <enleth> *anyway
[19:13:08] <enleth> you will crash it at first, so it's better to crash into the padding than the table
[19:13:09] <Encapsulation> thats true
[19:13:21] <enleth> and you can make locating jigs and reuse them
[19:13:28] <Encapsulation> I'll probably appreciate the extra clearance more than ever worry about some imperceptible loss of rigidity
[19:13:52] <enleth> just use the padding to always work in the middle of Z travel
[19:14:38] <Encapsulation> do you mean the z carriage(?) lined up with the x acis
[19:14:39] <Encapsulation> x
[19:14:43] <Encapsulation> https://i.ytimg.com/vi/vF_Nn53JO4A/maxresdefault.jpg
[19:14:45] <Encapsulation> as in thi spic
[19:14:52] <Encapsulation> or higher than that
[19:16:43] <enleth> yes, like this
[19:18:04] <enleth> and you might even shift the spindle up or down a little in the clamps to get the working area within the most rigid range of machine's travel
[19:18:17] <enleth> depending on the tool length
[19:18:29] <XXCoder> enleth: yeah thats nice thing about those type of spindle
[19:18:34] <XXCoder> too bad mine cant do that lol
[19:19:45] <Encapsulation> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Engraving-Machine-Rotary-Table-H-Style-A-Axis-B-Axis-4th-5th-Rotational-Axis-/262408923307?hash=item3d18ca68ab:g:w~wAAOSwgApXC4iZ I could fit this in the future and go mini 5 axis
[19:19:57] <Encapsulation> I see now why having more clearance there will be nice
[19:20:12] <Encapsulation> I'm gettin a 4 axis driver too with pins for 5th and 6th
[19:20:33] <enleth> Encapsulation: so if you're milling PCBs, you really need a mm or so of Z travel - adjust the spindle to stick out as little as possible below the clamps, and the effective table height (by padding) so that the Z is close to the botttom of travel range, where the Z carriage fully overlaps the X axis rails
[19:20:53] <enleth> that way you just don't care how high the gantry supports are
[19:21:03] <Encapsulation> I'm envisioning a big uglry stack of plywood in the middle of the table or something
[19:21:09] <Encapsulation> do you have an example picture of this technique
[19:21:42] <enleth> laminated MDF, seriously
[19:21:49] <enleth> plywood is much more pliable
[19:22:43] <jdh> I use particleboard
[19:22:51] <Encapsulation> I couldnt just put the thin aluminum or the pcbs rigjt on the spoilboard? the taller arms will hurt my rigidity in a normal setup that much?
[19:23:23] <enleth> Encapsulation: actually for milling PCBs they won't, you're right
[19:23:49] <enleth> for milling - you'll have to see. there is going to be a difference but it just might be acceptable
[19:23:56] <enleth> *for milling aluminum
[19:24:11] <enleth> jdh: like, non-laminated?
[19:24:34] <enleth> jdh: or the kitchen cabinet variety?
[19:24:40] <jdh> just plain particleboard
[19:25:02] <membiblio> When we were discussing pocketing the other day - and someone recommended pyCam - were you recommending the python program or the c++ program - there are two pyCam projects?
[19:27:03] <Encapsulation> are there?
[19:27:12] <Encapsulation> why would a c++ project be called pyCam
[19:27:39] <Encapsulation> looks like its been ported to C++
[19:28:39] <membiblio> so which one were you using the c++ version or the python version?
[19:29:39] <Encapsulation> I wasn't using either
[19:29:41] <jdh> I would avoid a c++ program named py-anything
[19:29:45] <Encapsulation> but unless I had a compelling reason I would use the original
[19:29:54] <Encapsulation> not to^
[19:31:04] <membiblio> ok thanks
[19:44:40] <Encapsulation> ok
[19:44:44] <Encapsulation> waiting for paypal invoice
[19:45:29] <Encapsulation> going with the extended Z
[19:48:31] <Encapsulation> theoretically I could use hte machine to cut shorter arms if I ever regretted it
[19:50:50] <jdh> what is the extended z?
[20:05:27] <Frank_1> guys my servo motor uses 30mm shaft, were can i get apropiate couplers for the ballscrew? thanks
[20:05:43] <XXCoder> and whats size on other end?
[20:06:51] <Encapsulation> ??
[20:06:58] <Encapsulation> what did I miss
[20:07:03] <XXCoder> sex talk]
[20:07:07] <XXCoder> heh
[20:07:18] <XXCoder> no, couplers (not coupling)
[20:07:46] <XXCoder> Frank_1: need to know what size shafts on both ends, motor shift and screw shit size
[20:08:11] <Encapsulation> @_@
[20:08:24] <Frank_1> im looking for the ballscrw diameter on the coupler side, i am looking at automation for less, 1 sec :D
[20:08:25] <XXCoder> *sigh* I meant shaft
[20:08:57] <XXCoder> watching video of guy using grade 0000 steel wool to clean glass
[20:09:32] <XXCoder> https://youtu.be/D05vX-G9iV4
[20:09:59] <XXCoder> guy then uses cotton sock to do final cleaning
[20:10:19] <Frank_1> its 10 mm coder
[20:10:28] <malcom2073> Makes sense, steel wool isn't gonna scratch it
[20:10:39] <XXCoder> my van has water spots everywhere, I might try at spot that dont go on my visual area when driving
[20:11:08] <malcom2073> XXCoder: Don't do it on the inside fwiw
[20:11:11] <Frank_1> lol,
[20:11:16] <XXCoder> malcom2073: I know
[20:11:26] <XXCoder> it has coating inside
[20:11:29] <Frank_1> try 80grit sandpaper :D
[20:11:41] <XXCoder> Frank_1: you meant 80! grit? ;)
[20:12:07] <XXCoder> so you need 30mm/10mm shift coupler lemme check some places lol
[20:12:25] <Frank_1> cuz, the automation for less page doesnt offer one,
[20:12:38] <XXCoder> ebay has em
[20:13:47] <XXCoder> hmm
[20:13:55] <XXCoder> most results is OD of coupler
[20:14:07] <Frank_1> crap
[20:14:07] <malcom2073> Heh, I would not use sandpaper if I were you
[20:14:08] <XXCoder> none has one side diameter as 30mm
[20:14:15] <Frank_1> maybe i should go with pulleys?
[20:14:21] <XXCoder> malcom2073: unless its insanely high grade
[20:14:28] <malcom2073> XXCoder: Unless it's not actually made with sand
[20:14:34] <Frank_1> it wast the first choice, but then i thought couplers are better
[20:14:44] <XXCoder> like 80! lol (nah that ones just not possible, glass is MUCH lower grade than 80! grade!)
[20:14:59] <Frank_1> unless you want to see throug the windshield
[20:15:00] <Frank_1> lol
[20:15:22] <XXCoder> Frank_1: 80! is mind blowing huge number.
[20:15:31] <Frank_1> i was joking :D
[20:15:53] <Frank_1> maybe the back of the sandpaper
[20:15:55] <malcom2073> By 80! you mean 80factorial?
[20:15:56] <Frank_1> any grit
[20:15:57] <Frank_1> lol
[20:16:03] <malcom2073> higher grit does not make it any less abrasive
[20:16:05] <malcom2073> or hard
[20:16:09] <XXCoder> malcom2073: yep lol
[20:16:29] <XXCoder> malcom2073: indeed but then it can polish glass if grade is suffecently high enough
[20:16:55] <malcom2073> So can magic
[20:17:00] <malcom2073> If we're talking imaginary things :)
[20:17:03] <XXCoder> Frank_1: 30mm is diameter of shaft for one end
[20:17:08] <XXCoder> lol indeed malcom2073
[20:17:29] <Frank_1> yes,
[20:17:51] <XXCoder> its definely larger than typical shaft couplers on say ebay
[20:17:55] <Frank_1> maybe pulleys are easier pick?
[20:18:04] <XXCoder> possobly? dunno
[20:22:14] <XXCoder> #0000 steel wool, 5 lb rool $30 lol
[20:22:49] <malcom2073> Timing pullys aren't cheap
[20:23:15] <XXCoder> Frank_1: you may have to buy a larger coupler then modify one end
[20:23:34] <Frank_1> T_T
[20:23:55] <Frank_1> im doing some cad now, figuring it out
[20:37:38] <XXCoder> amazon dont sell 1 flute ems.
[20:37:39] <XXCoder> weird
[20:38:15] <XXCoder> oh finally found some
[20:38:41] * SpeedEvil imagines Alisson Hannigan saying 'Flute'.
[20:39:44] <XXCoder> amazon sellers dont understand what flutes is
[20:39:52] <XXCoder> there is 134 ems listed as 0 flute
[20:40:08] <XXCoder> it IS possible but.. lol
[20:40:19] <gregcnc> they are saving you time. They will be 0 flute on first use
[20:40:36] <XXCoder> gregcnc: I have seen 0 flute drill
[20:40:46] <XXCoder> basically rounded bar lol
[20:40:54] <XXCoder> it worked too, though motor was over 100,000 rpm
[20:41:26] <gregcnc> spade type?
[20:41:30] <XXCoder> nope
[20:41:38] <XXCoder> just bar with ball end
[20:41:47] <XXCoder> it worked by friction alone.
[20:41:49] <gregcnc> oh that kind of rounded
[20:43:49] <gregcnc> single flute are often called router too
[20:43:53] <SpeedEvil> XXCoder: if only friction stir was a bit easier
[20:51:35] <XXCoder> I bet some people click all flute #s to make product more visiable :(
[20:52:52] <XXCoder> gregcnc: thanks for tip[
[20:52:55] <XXCoder> seems it worked
[20:53:43] <Frank_1> wonder why my servomotor has 30mm shaft. makes life impossible
[20:53:55] <XXCoder> use lathe, machine smaller dia
[20:54:24] <Frank_1> it would make me really nervous,
[20:54:30] <Frank_1> besides i have no lathe ..
[20:54:44] <Frank_1> maybe i could try with that 80grit sandpaper,,,
[20:54:45] <Frank_1> lol
[20:57:48] <malcom2073> Spin the servo and use a file :-D
[20:58:29] <Frank_1> yeeeeeah, actually its 19mm shaft HEHE
[20:58:36] <Frank_1> bad me
[20:58:51] * XXCoder searches for DUNCE cone hat
[20:59:31] <Frank_1> hahahah
[21:12:47] <icecube45> wut
[21:22:05] <XXCoder> http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/000/151/n725075089_288918_2774.jpg
[21:22:19] <XXCoder> I never could find source of that
[22:19:42] <Polymorphism> It's done.
[22:20:22] <XXCoder> bought a cnc router?
[22:20:34] <Polymorphism> yes
[22:22:12] <XXCoder> cool. which one?
[22:22:44] <Polymorphism> xzero mini raptor
[22:23:01] <XXCoder> link please, not familiar with every router ever made heh
[22:23:23] <Polymorphism> http://www.xzerocnc.com/raptor.htm
[22:23:45] <XXCoder> looks nice
[22:24:15] <Polymorphism> I think it's going to meet all of my needs
[22:25:03] <XXCoder> how much is it?
[22:25:44] <Polymorphism> I got the mini version, was within my budget
[22:26:41] <XXCoder> raptor
[22:26:51] <XXCoder> is artcam included?
[22:27:04] <Polymorphism> 12.5"x30" work area on this unit, $2600usd shipped for the frame/spindle mount/3xmotor/leadshine 4 axis, 48v psu/limit switches, cable chain. I need to buy wiring and a spindle still
[22:27:10] <Polymorphism> raptor mini, not listed on site
[22:27:14] <Polymorphism> no software
[22:27:17] <XXCoder> ahh ok
[22:27:20] <Polymorphism> I'm going to use linux cnc and an old pc
[22:27:26] <Polymorphism> and fusion 360
[22:27:37] <Polymorphism> which I'm hoping can handle simple 2d routing as well...
[22:27:47] <XXCoder> yeah if that old pc has built in video card, disable it and buy cheap video card
[22:27:58] <Polymorphism> I think it has an old gaming card
[22:27:59] <XXCoder> less interrupts meaning better latancy
[22:28:08] <XXCoder> that should be fine
[22:28:11] <Polymorphism> if it has something onboiard I'll disable in bios
[22:28:19] <XXCoder> network card too I guess
[22:28:30] <XXCoder> mine was already disabled as it broke and started jabbering
[22:28:35] <XXCoder> so I bought card
[22:28:47] <XXCoder> that was 4 years ago
[22:29:06] <Polymorphism> that makes sense, no need for the machine to be online
[22:29:18] <Polymorphism> unless you can control linuxcnc over the network?
[22:29:29] <Polymorphism> then I could remotrrely monitor jobs etc
[22:29:36] <XXCoder> I just use wireless dongle
[22:29:47] <Polymorphism> the one with the jog wheel? or the button one
[22:29:58] <XXCoder> network card will be fine, same effect as disabling onboard video card
[22:30:04] <Polymorphism> I see
[22:30:17] <XXCoder> wireless dongle is usb thingy that is for wireless network :)
[22:30:29] <Polymorphism> ohhh I see what you mean
[22:30:34] <Polymorphism> thought you meant pendant for some reason
[22:30:45] <XXCoder> lol ok
[22:30:48] <Polymorphism> I can just use a wireless keyboard for that I'm guessing
[22:31:03] <Polymorphism> or an xbox 360 controller
[22:31:27] <XXCoder> nah usb stuff is fine
[22:31:33] <XXCoder> ohh pendant :P
[22:31:49] <XXCoder> I plan to configure qjoy for my nes so I use it as keyboard
[22:31:56] <XXCoder> nice for jogging.
[22:32:04] <XXCoder> no huge keyboard for that
[22:32:10] <Polymorphism> yeah that sounds nice
[22:35:47] <XXCoder> I want to get better one lol
[22:36:00] <XXCoder> more buttons. maybe n64 one
[22:36:06] <Polymorphism> xbox 360 is nice
[22:36:10] <Polymorphism> the wireless one
[22:36:14] <XXCoder> xbox one is prety good. I has xbox orginial usb
[23:34:32] <arauchfuss> enleth: well mesa has already shipped my daughter card.
[23:35:00] <arauchfuss> 0 lead time.
[23:36:36] <XXCoder> webcam flash
[23:37:08] <XXCoder> what the
[23:37:37] <XXCoder> jeez. lol was looking for flash that would be able to access webcam I have. results was.. not what I expected
[23:40:28] <arauchfuss> certain keywords can result in unexpected results
[23:41:03] <XXCoder> yeah
[23:47:05] <Polymorphism> xD
[23:50:25] <XXCoder> trying to get my czur scanner to work :(
[23:52:18] <enleth> arauchfuss: which card was that?
[23:52:41] <witnit> XXCoder: if you want our helptell us you want to make it cnc
[23:53:07] <XXCoder> sure it.... totally are a cnc. lol
[23:53:11] <witnit> :)
[23:53:19] <XXCoder> I decided to try cloud method
[23:53:23] <XXCoder> it dont need drivers
[23:55:03] <XXCoder> stupid website
[23:55:11] <XXCoder> it limits password range to 6-12
[23:55:19] <XXCoder> it lessen solution space to much smaller one
[23:55:32] <XXCoder> I planned to sue 93f2b740f1b3f12144d1ec660b7210bd
[23:55:34] <XXCoder> *use
[23:57:55] <arauchfuss> enleth: 7i76
[23:59:34] <XXCoder> c937d22b5e95b379ef3bc7148f6e543ef99c588365530c9d023d647ab01fb735 more freepasswords for you all heh
[23:59:40] <XXCoder> gonna love generator