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[00:11:42] <LeelooMinai> Ok, for today I manged to probe that 123 block:
http://i.imgur.com/JA6UPAW.png
[00:12:24] <LeelooMinai> So progress:) I guess tomorrow I will try to figure out from that data how are my XY axis non-perpendicular and then square them.
[00:13:40] <LeelooMinai> Not sure yet how, but I think I will start from fitting a line into those dots, maybe checking deviation on them to see if I get nice straight lines.
[00:14:05] <LeelooMinai> And then calculate the angle - probably won't be 90 deg.
[00:14:35] <LeelooMinai> Or maybe I should get more data too.
[00:15:19] <LeelooMinai> I kind of assume those 123 blocks are usually square enough for this purpose - you think this method will suffice?
[00:15:48] <LeelooMinai> Or I should use some other object for the probing.
[00:19:26] <LeelooMinai> Right, people sleep... I guess I should too...
[00:28:12] <FloppyDisk> a linear regression would work for plotting your lines. although been awhile since I've done it, but I don't think it's too hard.
[00:28:53] <LeelooMinai> Right, I am sure those pythin libs have it somewhere - will experiment tomorrow - should be fun.
[00:29:45] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: looking good!
[00:31:19] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, do you maybe know if surface plates are also square? Or they only focus on the, well, surface?
[00:31:44] <zeeshan> only flat
[00:31:51] <LeelooMinai> RIght, though so.
[00:32:08] <zeeshan> your 123 block is pretty precise
[00:32:13] <zeeshan> why do you need the surface plate?
[00:32:50] <LeelooMinai> Was just wondering. I don't have non-conductive probe anyways. The only worry about the 123 block I have, that it's so small, but maybe that's ok.
[00:33:14] <zeeshan> by probing the 123 block what are you trying to accomplish?
[00:33:44] <LeelooMinai> well my machine is not even screrwed together - I need to make sure x-rails are perpendicular to the y-ones for starters
[00:34:42] <zeeshan> could you probe the 123 block are 4 corners of the table?
[00:34:58] <zeeshan> if you get the same result then it must be pretty damn square?!
[00:35:08] <zeeshan> are= on all
[00:36:04] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, I guess I could do that at the end - for now I just put it in the center of the table. I figured that if the rails are straight, and the block edges are straight, that should apply to the whole rails.
[00:56:16] <archivist> LeelooMinai, normalise it, compare to to straight lines
[00:57:59] <LeelooMinai> archivist: What do you mean "normalize"? I intended to line-fit it.
[01:00:24] <archivist> like the second graph, the error becomes more obvious
http://www.archivist.info/cnc/screw_error/ even better lower on the page
[01:02:12] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, so by normalize you mean take the first poiint as 0, and then scale the axis?
[01:03:31] <archivist> I plot the error from a straight line starting at a point I choose as 0
[01:04:33] <LeelooMinai> Right. I think tomorrow I will gather the data again. I took them every 5mm, but I will do it every 1mm.
[01:04:38] <archivist> I also normalise angles in a similar way when plotting a rotary angular error
[01:05:09] <archivist> http://www.archivist.info/cnc/wormtest/
[01:05:45] <LeelooMinai> My goal will be to find the angle between the lines, and then play with screws so that it is 90 deg.
[01:05:46] <archivist> you can see patterns begin to show
[01:08:23] * LeelooMinai wonders if Mitutoyo is like Fluke of the DMM world
[01:08:54] <LeelooMinai> Seems every machinist page needs to have a Mitutoyo- something on there:)
[01:09:50] <archivist> I have other stuff with higher resolution but mechanical/manual reading
[01:10:36] <archivist> no mitutoyo on this page
http://www.archivist.info/cnc/bench_micrometer/
[01:11:09] <LeelooMinai> lol, museum exponats:)
[01:12:15] <archivist> but they work!
[01:12:44] <LeelooMinai> I bet the rust has at least 1 mil:)
[01:13:42] <archivist> no rust on the anvils, and remember you can 0 that out
[01:15:03] <archivist> here checking screw pitch
http://www.archivist.info/cnc/screw_error/lamp_screw.php
[01:15:45] <archivist> used the mitutoyo to check the machines screw
[01:38:54] <archivist> LeelooMinai, someone used his numbers to fix the machine in software, he adjusted the kins
[02:24:42] <Deejay> moin
[03:45:40] <Valen> malcom2073: all the stuff I've been seeing for 422 says its 0-5, 485 being the one with the bigger voltages
[05:07:45] <mase-tech> Hi
[05:07:46] <mase-tech> :D
[05:36:19] <XXCoder> BOOO
[05:37:29] <XXCoder> LeelooMinai: hey
[05:52:21] <rue_shop5> anyone still awake?
[05:52:38] <rue_shop5> I'd like to move X just a bit
[05:52:46] <rue_shop5> M01 X0.1 ?
[05:53:01] <rue_shop5> er, G01 ?
[05:53:16] <XXCoder> hey
[05:53:29] <XXCoder> you need coord if thats not set yet
[05:53:30] <rue_shop5> undefined feed rate...
[05:53:36] <XXCoder> ah and F too
[05:53:47] <rue_shop5> ok, F 1?
[05:53:49] <XXCoder> f1. is very slow but enough to know it works
[05:53:53] <XXCoder> no space
[05:53:56] <rue_shop5> brand new machine
[05:54:05] <rue_shop5> havn't even got paint on it to scratch yet
[05:54:21] <rue_shop5> G01 F1 X1?
[05:54:50] <rue_shop5> hey it moved!
[05:54:51] <XXCoder> yeah
[05:57:16] <rue_shop5> ok, so I think the X axis is backwards...
[05:57:57] <XXCoder> heh happened to me
[06:01:04] <rue_shop5> eek, I think G01 is relative...
[06:01:15] <XXCoder> you havent defined g90 or g91
[06:01:23] <XXCoder> so it defaulted to 91
[06:01:54] <archivist> always have a preamble to set inch/absolute etc
[06:02:04] <rue_shop5> I'm hand prodding the new machine
[06:02:22] <XXCoder> indeed
[06:02:28] <XXCoder> I always go this first
[06:03:03] <XXCoder> g0g91g54x1. adjust for whatever needed, like g55 or other coord. or g90 so on whatever
[06:03:49] <archivist> and set inch/metric
[06:04:12] <XXCoder> isnt that set in HAL?
[06:05:25] <rue_shop5> odd, my power supply stopped, hmm
[06:05:30] <rue_shop5> reset ok..
[06:05:58] <rue_shop5> the Y axis is the Y axis, yay
[06:06:05] <archivist> XXCoder, in the ini but one forgets so best to be sure
[06:06:20] <XXCoder> I suppose, whats gcode to set ti anyway
[06:06:32] <MattyMatt> g20 and g21
[06:06:38] <XXCoder> cool
[06:06:42] <XXCoder> which is mm one?
[06:06:44] <rue_shop5> Y axis IS the right way around...
[06:07:13] <rue_shop5> haha Z kicked power supply out again...
[06:07:14] <MattyMatt> g21 = mm g20 = inch
[06:07:20] <rue_shop5> its gonna be a long night
[06:07:26] <MattyMatt> 25.4x embarrassment factor
[06:07:28] <rue_shop5> where is my 300000uF cap?
[06:08:03] <XXCoder> just get 2000F cap ;)
[06:10:12] <XXCoder> anyone heard of supercap car batteries?
[06:10:14] <XXCoder> interesting.
[06:10:15] <MattyMatt> or put a battery in parallel. free brownout protection too
[06:10:43] <XXCoder> I got bunch of semi-firm black foam from work
[06:10:50] <XXCoder> gonna use em to test stuff, :)
[06:10:54] <MattyMatt> I've seen youtube vids of people really happy with supercaps. especially in canada
[06:11:20] <MattyMatt> they start a car even when v cold
[06:11:39] <XXCoder> caps last better in cold too if I recall.
[06:12:47] <MattyMatt> 2V rating means you always need a ton in series
[06:13:15] <MattyMatt> 6 at least, for a car
[06:14:14] <XXCoder> saw kit where they only needed 8 supercaps
[06:14:27] <XXCoder> or thereabouts anyway
[06:15:01] <MattyMatt> yow, these ones are cheap, and small enough to solder all 100 to a board
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/10f-supercaps-2-7v-for-electrical-vehicle/681638853.html
[06:15:41] <MattyMatt> you could do a series/parallel arrangement for a cnc psu
[06:16:25] <XXCoder> I always wanted a real supercap flashlight
[06:16:34] <XXCoder> enough to last few hours, but seconds charge
[06:17:36] <Hawku> XXCoder: charge current? :)
[06:18:15] <MattyMatt> the posh supercaps have screw lugs for fat cables
[06:18:18] <XXCoder> 100 caps for $85 shipped. MattyMatt pretty cheap
[06:19:20] * MattyMatt wonders if 100 would be enough for a VFD
[06:19:27] <MattyMatt> probably not :)
[06:19:34] <XXCoder> its NEVER enough.
[06:19:45] <XXCoder> its either not enough or good enough for now
[06:21:16] <MattyMatt> maybe with 3 output transformers, so the inverter is low voltage
[06:21:27] <XXCoder> rue_shop5: hows it so far
[06:24:52] * MattyMatt puts CVT on rotary convertor, and calls it progress
[06:24:54] <XXCoder> rue_shop5:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTYpwJTB39A thats my machine, it had stepper issues and that was after fixes
[06:25:00] <XXCoder> lol
[06:25:24] <XXCoder> before tuneup
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LTTuFjYc0I lol
[06:25:29] <MattyMatt> I which those chinese VFD had a great big speed lever
[06:25:34] <rue_shop5> cant youtube just now
[06:25:34] <MattyMatt> ^wish
[06:25:43] <rue_shop5> trying to work out steps/distance
[06:26:04] <XXCoder> using ballscrew?
[06:26:05] <rue_shop5> I have more or less arbitrary reduction ratios
[06:26:13] <rue_shop5> threaded rod
[06:26:35] <XXCoder> one of silly tests I did was using webcam mounted on spindle tool
[06:26:39] <XXCoder> and it looks down on ruler
[06:26:49] <XXCoder> it was... surpising effective on testing scale.
[06:27:02] <XXCoder> also drafting and stepper skipping too
[06:28:23] <MattyMatt> rue_shop5 do it in 2 parts. first work out how many (micro)steps to turn the leadscrew 1 turn. and then take the pitch of the threaded rod , and divide them
[06:29:10] <MattyMatt> it's easier to do mentally that way, instead of one giant equation
[06:29:38] <XXCoder> MattyMatt: one of issues I am having now is how to figure ipm and so on
[06:29:49] <XXCoder> and how to decide what chip size is good
[06:30:17] <MattyMatt> you do that by ear I think :)
[06:30:27] <MattyMatt> and nose. burning is usually bad
[06:30:32] <XXCoder> indeed. too bad I have neither
[06:31:12] <MattyMatt> that's why they put sulphur in cutting oil
[06:31:14] <archivist> vibration a a close third and you can see smoke
[06:32:54] <XXCoder> archivist: yeah though it was hard to tell if its good vibroations or not
[06:33:11] <XXCoder> though with recent experebce with zeeshan and tuning I learned some.
[06:33:21] <MattyMatt> the theramin bridge is distinctive
[06:33:49] <XXCoder> MattyMatt: curious what ya think how two videos sound like, stepper wise heh
[06:34:17] <XXCoder> its still not perfect (low range little bit rough at some speeds and fairly bad at 40 mm/s
[06:34:34] <MattyMatt> I'm no expert. I'm still milling with a dremel
[06:34:46] <XXCoder> using steppers?
[06:35:11] <MattyMatt> arr
[06:36:25] <MattyMatt> theramin bridge
https://youtu.be/Eab_beh07HU?t=26s
[06:36:51] <XXCoder> one picture. boring.
[07:24:40] <XXCoder> curious though
[07:24:50] <XXCoder> MattyMatt: What you making on your machine?
[08:33:33] <Polymorphism> zlog
[08:36:35] <Polymorphism> so arduino + grbl = not suitable for controlling a cnc?
[08:38:44] <malcom2073> Depends on your requirements
[08:38:48] <malcom2073> cnc is very vauge
[08:39:00] <malcom2073> Its suitable for controlling a cobbled together cnc, or a reprap style machine sure.
[08:41:14] <archivist> grbl like asking about a fiat in the rolls royce garage
[08:41:27] <malcom2073> I like that analogy
[08:41:51] <malcom2073> Except, rolls royce in this case is in the same price bracket as the fiat
[08:43:16] <archivist> this roller has 9 wheels (axes)
[08:44:23] <malcom2073> The fiat only has three, and they're square
[08:46:54] <malcom2073> Tinyg2 actually ran pretty damn well in my tests, it uses a proper s-curve trajectory planner... but it was a bit buggy when I last tried it 6 months or so ago, and doesn't run on standard 8bit arduino stuff
[08:47:01] <malcom2073> runs on the arm arduino though
[08:48:11] <archivist> skunkworks compared the planner with linuxcnc and found some problems, dunno if they have been fixed yet
[08:49:25] <malcom2073> With the advent of machinekit and more embedded solutions, the arduino stuff is losing its appeal at least to me. The only real advantage it has is that it runs on phyiscally small hardware
[08:49:43] <malcom2073> I hate having a full PC next to my 3d printer heh
[08:50:01] <malcom2073> My mill I don't mind, since I do enough interactive operations that having a full PC is tolerable
[08:50:40] <gonzo__> just get a bigger mill, then the PC gets hidden
[08:50:47] <malcom2073> Yep
[08:50:57] <archivist> the volume of vfd,pc,monitor,psu and drivers is bigger than my hobbing machine
[08:51:41] <gonzo__> my controllers are in 19" rack
[08:55:40] <Polymorphism> thats why I was looking at it
[08:55:49] <Polymorphism> trying to come up with an alternative to building a full pc for the machine
[09:29:14] <Sync> well, you can just mount it in a case together with all the other stuff
[09:38:55] <djdelorie> it's amazing how many of life's problems can be solved with a hammer...
[09:39:19] <malcom2073> A lot of lifes problems look like nails when you have one
[09:57:03] <jdh> same can be said for timers in PLC code
[09:58:18] <jdh> or perhaps I mean the inverse
[11:06:17] <gregcnc> some good slomo milling
https://youtu.be/LDxNDWObTyg
[11:07:25] <_methods> i love watching slomo milling
[11:09:55] <malcom2073> the only thing better than cnc porn.... is slow mo cnc porn
[11:14:39] <enleth> have you ever tried plotting axis servo currents over spindle angular position?
[11:14:46] <enleth> that obviously requires a spindle encoder
[11:29:33] <archivist> good at throwing chips out of that last hole
[12:12:54] <archivist> malcom2073, sometimes you really need slomo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XYakTeQahA
[12:15:03] <malcom2073> I'd be happy with a slow tool changer
[12:15:04] <malcom2073> :-P
[12:15:41] <archivist> I bet they had fun developing that toolchange
[12:17:32] <malcom2073> I'll be they had more fun testing it
[12:19:12] <zeeshan|2> id be happy with any toool changer too
[12:19:13] <zeeshan|2> ;[
[12:20:59] <archivist> I only have mandraulic tool change
[12:21:05] <zeeshan|2> lol
[12:21:30] <maxcnc> hi
[12:21:57] <maxcnc> Jymmm: ?
[12:22:39] <malcom2073> I have manumatic
[12:22:40] <maxcnc> getting real nice tomorrow if you dont work
[12:22:47] <malcom2073> cause my drawbar is air powered heh
[12:27:28] <maxcnc> emc: why this nick on this channel
[12:28:57] <archivist> because he is a real enhanced machine controller
[12:29:39] <maxcnc> to machine controller
[12:30:13] <malcom2073> The first one even
[12:30:48] <maxcnc> its a autobot
[12:31:06] <maxcnc> getting around for software upgrade
[12:51:08] <Jymmm> maxcnc: yes?
[12:51:57] <maxcnc> did you remember i told you the school needs a retrofit i made with china equipment
[12:52:17] <Jymmm> sorta kinda
[12:52:32] <maxcnc> now it made the round under the local and far local schools that i can do this
[12:52:53] <maxcnc> today 6 more school mashines came in
[12:53:20] <maxcnc> with stepper systems from the realy first work cnc flows
[12:53:29] <maxcnc> what a miss
[12:53:47] <maxcnc> i need to make a history museu on cnc as parts i got
[12:53:50] <Jymmm> haha.... Better you than me =)
[12:54:00] <maxcnc> full agree
[12:54:25] <maxcnc> Loetmichel: weist du das konrad langenfeld gestorben ist
[12:54:35] <Loetmichel> wer?
[12:55:13] <maxcnc> protos
[12:55:32] <maxcnc> der lieferandt für deutsche cnc technik schlecht hin
[12:55:36] <maxcnc> ein urgestein
[12:55:47] <Loetmichel> sorry, no idea of whom you are talking.
[12:58:14] <maxcnc> ok
[13:04:49] <maxcnc> im off bye
[13:04:50] <Sync> looks like any other generic cnc hardware store
[13:05:50] <Sync> enleth: why would you do that?
[13:06:09] <Sync> you can get torque reports over the length of the spindle from the manufacturer if you want
[13:08:40] <enleth> Sync: to see if there's any interesting data in it
[13:09:48] <enleth> Sync: I meant servo torque superimposed on spindle rotation
[13:09:57] <Sync> hm
[13:10:10] <Sync> I don't think so
[13:10:31] <enleth> maybe, just maybe, the effect of dull inserts would be measurable
[13:10:37] <Sync> it is
[13:10:58] <enleth> well, so that's where you'd see it, I guess
[13:11:42] <DaViruz> might be difficult to analyze, it would have to be compared to an extremely similar operation no?
[13:11:53] <DaViruz> with known sharp inserts
[13:12:25] <Sync> you just measure spindle torque
[13:12:36] <Sync> instead of plotting it against something else
[13:12:52] <Sync> there are also some machines that try to detect crashes by looking at the drive torques
[13:13:10] <Sync> and there are in process monitoring systems that use load cells in the fixture
[13:13:42] <Sync> DaViruz: it's a production feature, you know how your process behaves if you do a lot of parts
[13:13:51] <enleth> I was mainly just thinking about possible use cases of servo current monitoring after a discussion with pcw_home yesterday
[13:14:28] <enleth> I'm still wondering what are the advantages of running servo drives in torque mode if they have current monitoring outputs anyway
[13:14:42] <enleth> advantages or just use cases
[13:15:45] <Sync> that really depends on your control
[13:16:23] <Sync> the neat thing is that you have full control over the torque
[13:16:26] <Sync> but idk
[13:16:31] <Sync> I run my drives as position mode
[13:48:54] <jthornton> just got some parts from aliexpress and the envelope was made of tape
[13:49:28] <Deejay> hrhr
[13:59:51] <malcom2073> lolchina
[14:15:43] <CaptHindsight> what do they ship styrofoam in?
[14:24:51] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight used recycled tp
[15:28:51] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: got my dip switches in lol
[15:29:43] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: dip switches? I thought you were going for arduino nano(s)?
[15:31:42] <JT-Shop> I got some other stuff as well
[15:32:17] <JT-Shop> what's a decent lan based surveillance camera
[15:32:55] <Tom_itx> still on a squirrel hunt?
[15:33:18] * Tom_itx thinks of caddy shack
[15:34:23] <JT-Shop> just bird watching now, but this dlink camera sucks
[15:39:56] <Jymmm> if you get a DVR, you can add/use whatever cameras you want.
[15:44:01] <JT-Shop> afaik you can't connect a lan camera up to a dvr?
[15:57:24] <_methods> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SONY-CMOS-20X-Zoom-HD-1080P-2-0MP-Outdoor-PTZ-IP-Speed-Dome-Camera-150M-IR-Audio-/301888477733
[15:57:28] <_methods> i just bought one of those
[15:57:36] <_methods> pretty spiffy
[15:58:09] <_methods> and cheap hehe
[16:04:36] <Jymmm> 2mp? ouch
[16:05:02] <Jymmm> I want to see the VIN number 1/4 mile away.
[16:05:47] <Jymmm> Have the video of my car being broke into. can't make out the face or license plate.
[16:11:24] <Tom_itx> what good is that then
[16:15:07] <JT-Shop> _methods: does it have a pretty good video quality?
[16:35:10] <Deejay> gn8
[16:36:38] <_methods> JT-Shop: yeah
[16:36:54] <_methods> let me get a pic from it real quick
[16:39:12] <_methods> http://i.imgur.com/BUMdyWx.jpg
[16:41:02] <Jymmm> _methods: try to get a license plate sometime.
[16:42:05] <_methods> http://i.imgur.com/odXvTJv.jpg
[16:42:07] <_methods> like that
[16:42:14] <_methods> that's zoom on it
[16:43:13] <Jymmm> is that the camera you just bought/linked to? How far away is that truck?
[16:43:17] <_methods> yeah
[16:43:20] <_methods> it's in the first pic
[16:43:23] <_methods> you can see the gold truck
[16:43:44] <Jymmm> impressive
[16:43:56] <_methods> i can read the plates on that bmw mini
[16:43:57] <Jymmm> would not have expected that from just 2MP
[16:44:09] <_methods> yeah i'm getting a 5mp cam
[16:44:14] <_methods> some day from china lol
[16:44:20] <_methods> whenever it shows up
[16:44:49] <Jymmm> And it's 100% propritary/app free?
[16:45:01] <_methods> umm not really
[16:45:08] <_methods> but i dont' know i just use zone minder
[16:45:20] <Jymmm> so I cant connect to it from my pc/phone?
[16:45:27] <_methods> sure you can
[16:45:31] <_methods> it's an onvif cam
[16:45:41] <_methods> so you can use any onvif app
[16:45:51] <Jymmm> onvidmouse?!
[16:45:52] <JT-Shop> that's pretty good photos
[16:45:54] <_methods> i use ipcam viewer
[16:45:59] <Jymmm> ah
[16:46:17] <_methods> but i use zoneminder to control all my cams and record
[16:46:23] <_methods> well motion detect record
[16:46:27] <Jymmm> so a soft dvr
[16:46:31] <_methods> yeah
[16:47:09] <Jymmm> Most hw dvr's only have one PTZ port anyway that I've seen
[16:47:24] <_methods> i don't know i've just used zoneminder for years
[16:47:32] <_methods> never tried an actual camera controller
[16:47:42] <Jymmm> so you're the neighborhood perv =)
[16:47:56] <Jymmm> ...for years
[16:48:02] <_methods> hahah yeah
[16:48:17] <Jymmm> so why the new camera? old ones suck?
[16:48:27] <_methods> i'm always tryin out new cams
[16:48:31] <_methods> well cheap chinese cams
[16:48:46] <_methods> real cameras cost too damn much
[16:48:50] <Jymmm> $200 aint that cheap
[16:48:56] <_methods> a comparable axis ptz cam would probably cost $1500
[16:49:01] <Jymmm> did you research it first?
[16:49:07] <_methods> yeah
[16:49:10] <Jymmm> fuck axis!
[16:49:25] <Jymmm> they wouldn't let me beta test em back when... bastards!
[16:49:33] <_methods> they are bastards
[16:49:46] <_methods> bastards that like to take money
[16:51:24] <Jymmm> yeah!
[17:02:52] <JT-Shop> what does this mean 1/5” VGA progressive CMOS sensor
[17:05:17] <_methods> No idea lol
[17:05:59] <Sync> vga is the resolution
[17:06:05] <Sync> 1/5" the diagonal
[17:06:14] <Sync> progressive how it gathers data from the sensor
[17:06:17] <Sync> and cmos the technology
[17:40:12] <CaptHindsight> slow. low cost
[17:48:39] <witnit> anyone from the south carolina area?
http://tinyurl.com/zfgudta
[17:50:01] <malcom2073> Damn, nice
[17:52:22] <CaptHindsight> I tossed 2 of em out earlier today :)
[17:53:10] <CaptHindsight> no mention of a reserve price
[17:56:28] <_methods> me
[17:57:03] <malcom2073> Go fer it!
[17:57:13] <_methods> umm no
[17:57:45] <_methods> that's the millenium falcon of milling machines
[17:58:12] <malcom2073> Heh, so fast and loose?
[17:58:26] <CaptHindsight> "use the farce"
[17:59:02] <_methods> every time you hit cycle start it makes that wooom wooom wooom noise and crashes into the table
[17:59:18] <malcom2073> heh
[18:11:16] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc:
http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/bfd/5546832300.html
[18:14:53] <Erant> I have to level the bed for my Atlas 618. I'm guessing I'll have to grab a machinist level for that?
[18:15:38] <CaptHindsight> depends on how level you want it
[18:16:12] <_methods> honestly on a 618 i wouldn't sweat it too much
[18:16:19] <_methods> i'd just use a regular level
[18:16:56] <Erant> Cool, I figured the thing isn't a precision lathe anyway.
[18:16:57] <_methods> the bearings in your headstock will have more runout than you'll ever get out of a bed out of level
[18:17:09] <Erant> Yeah.
[18:19:00] <CaptHindsight> _methods: so you don't sink 4 posts into the earth and use lasers?
[18:19:17] <_methods> haha i'm sure you could
[18:19:53] <_methods> might not be the greatest use of your time......
[18:21:01] <_methods> people scrape ways on those crappy chinese mills and lathes so yeah
[18:21:22] <_methods> i guess you can get as crazy as you want
[18:22:14] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/powder-coat-electric-curing-oven-NEW-flat-floor-model-6ft-tall-inside-/111987240472?hash=item1a12f5ae18:g:MKcAAOxyTMhR-DE2 this ones big enough for people
[18:22:15] <Erant> I'm impressed by how nice this lathe has stayed over 50+ years
[18:22:17] <_methods> i have about .002-.003" of runout in the headstock on mine
[18:22:25] <_methods> yeah they're good little lathes
[18:22:31] <_methods> people talk shit about them
[18:22:40] <_methods> but they're better than anything you can buy new in that size range
[18:22:55] <Erant> I'm learning, I didn't spend too much on it, I'll have fun with it
[18:23:17] <CaptHindsight> either I have enough people on ignore or today has been stupid question free
[18:23:22] <_methods> yeah they're good enough for most stuff
[18:23:37] <_methods> and they're small and easy to move around
[18:24:00] <_methods> the only bad thing is cutting metric threads
[18:24:07] <Erant> CaptHindsight: Do you think I can turn some 8" steel rod on this lathe?
[18:24:22] <_methods> i think the 618 only has 6" swing
[18:24:23] <_methods> lol
[18:24:37] <_methods> so probably not
[18:24:40] <Erant> Wanted to fix his stupid question quota.
[18:24:47] <_methods> hahahah
[18:24:51] <malcom2073> hah
[18:24:53] <_methods> touche
[18:25:16] <CaptHindsight> http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/nbwAAMXQE9hR-DGP/s-l1600.jpg two little weenie heating elements
[18:25:19] <_methods> should i get the 6040 or the zorro
[18:25:29] <_methods> i just can't decide
[18:25:43] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: but it's not "Made to work!"
[18:25:52] <malcom2073> _methods: Have you seen the raptor? ;)
[18:25:56] <Erant> _methods: Like, the routers?
[18:25:58] <CaptHindsight> I can't make up my mind about reading your question or not
[18:26:05] <_methods> hahah
[18:26:21] <Erant> oh balls I fell for it too.
[18:26:23] <malcom2073> Did he ever buy one/
[18:26:24] <malcom2073> ?
[18:26:26] <JT-Shop> dang might get my GPS mount done today
[18:26:31] * _methods do i care
[18:27:11] <_methods> oooh i forgot to watch the last episode of silicon valley
[18:27:25] <Erant> CaptHindsight: Those look like... grill units.
[18:28:53] <CaptHindsight> _methods: you mean the episode where ......
[18:33:28] <CaptHindsight> why would you want to cook a level?
http://img-aws.ehowcdn.com/640/cme/photography.prod.demandstudios.com/be82335d-b9a4-4da7-846b-9d2fe3beca35.jpg
[18:39:22] <zeeshan|2> even food
[18:39:26] <zeeshan|2> even heating of FOOD
[18:39:27] <zeeshan|2> duhh1?!
[18:39:33] <XXCoder> heeeeeey
[18:39:53] <XXCoder> yummy levels
[18:40:11] <JT-Shop> zeeshan|2: you going to build a tungsten grinder too?
[18:41:29] <zeeshan|2> one day :P
[18:42:26] <JT-Shop> this afternoons project
https://imagebin.ca/v/2hr0pR8IvrfN
[18:42:45] <zeeshan|2> did you mill that?
[18:42:49] <zeeshan|2> thats a sharp bend :D
[18:42:55] <zeeshan|2> oh its just sitting flush it with
[18:42:57] <zeeshan|2> nm :D
[18:44:01] <JT-Shop> milled from 2 x 2 angle
[18:44:10] <zeeshan|2> oh
[18:44:11] <zeeshan|2> lol
[18:44:46] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/images/tungsten-grinder/grinder01.jpg
[18:46:54] <Erant> I need to a new rest for my grinder.
[18:47:02] <enleth> if all goes well, tomorrow is going to be interesting, whipping up an encoder interpolator using whatever I can find in the electronic parts cabinet at the shop
[18:47:04] <Erant> It's all flimsy and I can't set it to an angle for grinding tools
[18:48:00] <enleth> I'm not sure what opamps to use because I don't remember what I have at least 3 of (A, B and index), and I'm not sure what uC to use for the same reason precisely
[18:48:41] <enleth> but it just might work anyway
[18:54:42] <Valen> anybody seen andypugh? I haven't seen him for a few days
[18:55:43] <Sync> probably still stuck in detroit
[18:56:04] <malcom2073> Detroit: You can check out, but you can never leave
[18:57:12] <Erant> Usually only between 6 pieces of wood.
[18:58:08] <enleth> Valen: yeah, last time he was here was about 68 hours ago
[19:29:27] <CaptHindsight> he's probably on his way back home, he was in the dev channel last nigh
[19:29:35] <CaptHindsight> +t
[19:36:40] <XXCoder> Oregon: there is a police car behind each car
[19:36:51] <XXCoder> including police cars
[20:19:34] <gregcnc> Capthindsight did you see this
http://tinyurl.com/zkp239m
[20:19:52] <gregcnc> somebody should have told me to be a teacher in our county
[20:33:15] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: Forbes is fucked on my browser
[20:35:10] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: the silver lining was that CPS lost all the teachers pension funds during the 08 crash
[20:35:50] <CaptHindsight> their CFO heavily invested in crappy housing bundles
[20:36:01] <CaptHindsight> housing/mortgage
[20:37:44] <gregcnc> yeah I remember reading aboutthat
[20:38:56] <CaptHindsight> couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of folks
[20:39:28] <gregcnc> i'd say 80% of the state employees over 100k/yr are D155 faculty some who were teaching 20 years ago are 150-175k
[20:39:34] <gregcnc> in mchenry cty
[20:41:05] <gregcnc> i'm thinking about leaving IL before they want blood with the tax payment
[20:43:20] <CaptHindsight> they made all these stupid deals 30 years ago
[20:43:55] <CaptHindsight> nothing like being so selfish that you push the problem off on the next generation
[20:45:49] <eeriegeek> http://www.usdebtclock.org/
[20:50:28] <cradek> yeah if there's any one group responsible for the US debt, it's our public school teachers!
[20:51:18] <eeriegeek> that's what each of the problems say
[20:52:19] <cradek> yeah, every poor person should do his and her part and make some sacrifices
[20:52:20] <CaptHindsight> nah, it's the mix of wall st and the guberment
[20:53:39] <LeelooMinai> I live in Canada, but recently I looked into some politics videos in US, and you are guys screwed there with new elections...
[20:53:42] <CaptHindsight> public school teachers are just a very efficient propaganda machine
[20:55:27] <Valen> LeelooMinai: bernie is probably the closest to your new PM, he seems like a pretty top bloke tbh
[20:56:10] <LeelooMinai> E, what, but I am Canadian...
[20:56:22] <CaptHindsight> applied social engineers
[20:56:29] <Valen> yeah, and bernie seems much like the new canadian PM
[20:56:40] <Valen> apart from the being young and handsome part ;->
[20:57:10] <Valen> he supports many of the same totally communist policies like healthcare and stuff lol
[20:57:28] <LeelooMinai> A, I see. To be honest I don't get why people prefere other candidates... Are they masochists or something?
[20:57:48] <Valen> soundbite politics, the others policies sound good in 3 words
[20:57:57] <Valen> its what happened in australia when we got tony abbot
[20:58:11] <gregcnc> zeeshan i just read that orange vise aren't even ground, just milled I'd like to see one first hand
[20:58:13] <Valen> "free healthcare" doesn't work in 3 words
[20:58:28] <eeriegeek> Vote for free stuff!
[20:58:37] <LeelooMinai> I don't see how they sound good to an average person - no healthcare, no reasonable minimum wages, etc. - boggles my mind...
[20:59:17] <Valen> because the other parties say "higher taxes!"
[20:59:48] <LeelooMinai> It's almost like people like being trolled by big corporations, military, drug manufacturers, etc. - as I wrote, masochism...
[21:00:06] <Valen> and the argument's against that require reading his whole budget policy which is like a whole page and its all too hard
[21:00:15] <CaptHindsight> playing world police with an insane military budget doesn't help either
[21:00:51] <LeelooMinai> What higher taxes - from what I read, Sanders proposes higher taxes only above large income, like millions of $
[21:01:02] <CaptHindsight> who's giving away free stuff?
[21:01:06] <LeelooMinai> Why would most people care?
[21:01:09] <tiwake> CaptHindsight:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-axJTzj0VU
[21:01:20] <Tom_itx> that's quite a setup
[21:01:34] <Tom_itx> woops, scrollback bites again
[21:01:59] <Valen> LeelooMinai: because a) sanders is a commie! b) higher taxes!
[21:02:20] <CaptHindsight> commie = socialist
[21:02:24] <CaptHindsight> lol
[21:02:31] <LeelooMinai> Whatever happens with elections, people in US will get what they voted for I guess...
[21:02:37] <Valen> USA spends more on its military than the next 20 countries in the world combined as I recall
[21:02:51] <LeelooMinai> I think Sanders is social democrat, not a "commie" or even socialis:)
[21:03:15] <Tom_itx> Valen everyone is counting on us
[21:03:17] <tiwake> Valen: to be fair, the state of texas has an economy the size of canada
[21:03:18] <Valen> he is that, but for most people they don't want to find out anything more than the news headlines
[21:03:27] <tiwake> thats just one state
[21:03:34] <CaptHindsight> Valen: we can bomb the shit out of anybody!
[21:03:46] <eeriegeek> Hugo Chavez was a social democrat too.
[21:04:47] <LeelooMinai> THe Sanders guy seemed pretty reasonable to me - I mean I personaly wouldn't mind him as a president. On the other hand the other guy... man, I think Monty Python couldn't make him up:)
[21:05:12] <Valen> tiwake: and china is such a small economy? germany japan etc? you guys spend ~2x -3x more than most other countries per capita
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures
[21:05:49] <Valen> sanders would make a great PM for Australia lol.
[21:06:02] <Valen> trump, my god how can people even think about it?
[21:06:22] <Tom_itx> what's the alternative?
[21:06:25] <LeelooMinai> I think he olready won his side, no?
[21:06:43] <LeelooMinai> With some huge margin...
[21:06:46] <Valen> I believe so
[21:07:05] <LeelooMinai> It must be US thing - not comprehensible for other people...
[21:07:23] <Valen> Its bad that on the other side hilliary is winning, hillary vs trump hillary just wins, because she is "dirty" and trump excels at playing in the dirt
[21:07:32] <Valen> trump vs sanders sanders wins by a huge margin
[21:07:50] <Valen> because sanders actually has sane policies and is clean as a whistle
[21:08:12] <tiwake> sane policies?
[21:08:23] <tiwake> thats the biggest BS I've ever heard
[21:08:24] <tiwake> lol
[21:08:28] <Valen> so if hillary wins her parties nomination there is a decent chance of trump being pres
[21:08:40] <LeelooMinai> Seemed pretty same to me too.
[21:08:43] <LeelooMinai> sane*
[21:08:46] <tiwake> communism has never had sane policies
[21:08:52] <LeelooMinai> ...
[21:09:07] <gregcnc> so write in.....
[21:09:10] <LeelooMinai> I lived in Poland - I know what Communism is and it's not what Sanders stands for.
[21:09:24] <eeriegeek> I'm Bernie Sanders, and I approve this message!
[21:09:46] <Valen> tiwake: you know, policies like communist paradises like they have in Australia, and Canada, and Germany, and Switzerland, and Finland, and Norway, and England
[21:10:22] * LeelooMinai scratches the head
[21:10:51] <LeelooMinai> tiwake: I don't get it... you think that country with good healthcare is bad?
[21:11:52] <LeelooMinai> Or education, etc. - seems to me that's more important than military, unless your are in the direct threat of a war.
[21:12:08] <tiwake> LeelooMinai: good is not good enough... right now its the best, and everyone wants to downgrade it to just 'good'
[21:12:25] <Valen> american healthcare is far from the best
[21:12:32] <tiwake> also, I was homeschooled, because the schooling system sucks so much
[21:12:37] <LeelooMinai> I read that it's #38 in the world, so pretty bad.
[21:12:40] <CaptHindsight> Valen: do they have Outback steak houses there? :)
[21:12:58] <tiwake> LeelooMinai: based on what metric?
[21:12:59] <Valen> you spend twice as much on it as any of those communist hellholes do per capita and have far worse outcomes
[21:13:14] <LeelooMinai> tiwake: Well, google it - it's not considered good by any means.
[21:13:35] <gregcnc> IL healthcare is good twice as much time off
http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/daily-southtown/opinion/ct-sta-berg-workers-comp-st-0520-20160519-story.html
[21:13:38] <tiwake> spending money for a service? oh gosh, thats unheard of!
[21:13:49] <LeelooMinai> Also, as I understand drug companies can gauge the prices as they want, so how can it be good combined with no unversal healthcare.... Maybe for rich.
[21:13:50] <Valen> CaptHindsight: we do indeed, but I found out recently they have nothing to do with the outback! they are an American invention lol. Given the portion sizes I should have guessed, and been thankful lol.
[21:14:06] <CaptHindsight> hehe
[21:14:07] <Valen> tiwake: we spend money for services, what's your point?
[21:14:53] <LeelooMinai> tiwake: But ok, here you go:
http://thepatientfactor.com/canadian-health-care-information/world-health-organizations-ranking-of-the-worlds-health-systems/
[21:15:23] <tiwake> Valen: subsidized how much? IMO subsidizing should never be done, it hides the true value of something
[21:15:38] <Valen> its not subsidised at all
[21:15:46] <Valen> I pay taxes, taxes pay the doctor
[21:16:16] <Valen> when I'm sick or injured I go to the doctor, they make me better, I keep working and paying taxes
[21:16:21] <tiwake> LeelooMinai: there are a lot of drug companies that don't want to talk about stuff like garlic and ginger and related things and how much more useful they are than a pill is for <insert issue>
[21:16:46] <Valen> best thing is if I'm a bit off I go to the GP straight away and get treated before winding up in the ER which costs 10X as much
[21:16:49] <LeelooMinai> Well, garlic won't cure all:)
[21:17:21] <tiwake> LeelooMinai: it just says "WHO metrics", which don't define what standards they actually use to give the ranking
[21:17:46] <cradek> there's a link to the whole report at the bottom where it says Source:
[21:18:44] <LeelooMinai> tiwake: It's likely to be more objective than any internal "ranking" - I think someone must be rather dellusional living in US and thinking about a good healthcare system if, for example, bankrupcy due to medical bills is a huge problem.
[21:18:45] <Valen> like around christmas I hurt my feet pretty badly on a weekend like 9/10 pain, Called for an out of hours Dr, guy turned up in about an hour, gave me a prelim diagnosis, some pain medication and kept me out of the hospital. Cost to the govt for that in home Dr visit on a sat was about $130 as I recall. Cost for an ER visit is ~$1k
[21:19:45] <tiwake> LeelooMinai: well, I know a canadian family that moved over to USA and (used to) love USA's heathcare system a lot more than what they had in canada
[21:19:54] <Valen> That's why we spend less on healthcare than America and have better outcomes
[21:20:15] <LeelooMinai> tiwake: That must be pretty ucommon case then - usually it's the other way around.
[21:21:12] <tiwake> also, yes, garlic is the cureall for everything
[21:21:22] <tiwake> for food and for health :P
[21:21:26] <LeelooMinai> I know, even Vampires:)
[21:21:36] <Valen> fixed my wifes cold
[21:21:40] <tiwake> oh yeah, and all the side benefits
[21:21:48] <tiwake> like vampires
[21:22:08] <Valen> 4kg of garlic sauce on a toasted chicken sandwich job's a goodun lol
[21:22:16] <gregcnc> if you lived in Poland you must have at one time had or observed bread, butter, and garlic my mom still eats it
[21:22:27] <tiwake> Valen: yeah, just gargle with garlic water when feeling a cold thing coming on
[21:23:21] <LeelooMinai> Right, well, garlic is just probably good as, e, not sure what the word is, but fighting microbes, etc., but no reason to go "full retard" and think that it will cure serious illnesses:)
[21:23:21] <tiwake> it works kind of amazingly well
[21:23:40] <tiwake> it cures AIDS too :P
[21:23:43] <tiwake> (kidding)
[21:23:47] <Valen> tiwake: what I'm curious about is how you can reconcile your world view with the hard data presented against it?
[21:24:01] <CaptHindsight> garlic kept me safe from vampires
[21:24:02] <Valen> I mean it seems to be a common view in the USA but from outside it just makes no sense
[21:24:38] <tiwake> Valen: and my canadian friends? :P
[21:24:56] <tiwake> well, not canadian anymore
[21:24:59] <gregcnc> let the kids figure out this mess
[21:25:02] <LeelooMinai> I think that's part of the problem - people in US are kind of isolated inside their world and lost perspective... And current elections are the result.
[21:25:27] <Valen> ahh, anecdotal evidence supporting your view trumps statistics arguing against it, confirmation bias
[21:25:39] <CaptHindsight> we can't have single payer health care since you need to be able to skim money from the system in as many ways as possible
[21:26:15] <LeelooMinai> And this role is already taken by military, etc? :)
[21:26:22] <Valen> what do you guys mean by "single payer" I don't understand that term
[21:26:45] <CaptHindsight> Valen: it's similar to your system
[21:27:15] <CaptHindsight> you can also have additional private insurance but...
[21:27:18] <tiwake> honestly paying for insurance is dumb, everyone would save money if they didnt get it at all and just payed for their respective doctors visits
[21:27:44] <CaptHindsight> hah!
[21:27:50] <Valen> the problem is for some people a "dr visit" winds up being a $200000 cancer treatment
[21:27:52] <CaptHindsight> until you get cancer
[21:28:01] <tiwake> heh
[21:28:04] <CaptHindsight> or get 60+
[21:28:07] <LeelooMinai> tiwake: Are you a gambler or something? :p
[21:28:21] <Valen> hell a broken femur is going to cost you $40K at least
[21:28:38] <tiwake> LeelooMinai: and paying for insurance isnt gambling?
[21:28:48] <tiwake> :P
[21:28:52] <CaptHindsight> the whole not negotiating the price of drugs is crazy as well
[21:29:04] <LeelooMinai> tiwake: No, it's playing it safe...
[21:29:19] <CaptHindsight> the excuse is that the cost of inventing a drug costs $100's of millions
[21:29:26] <jdh> if we had single payer, someone might get healthcare that others didn't think they deserve.
[21:29:29] <Valen> whilst you are in theory correct, the problem with that line of reasoning is the cost can exceed what can be reasonably self insured for a small party
[21:29:29] <CaptHindsight> will is accounting bullshit
[21:29:38] <tiwake> its betting on the chance that you will get cancer or break a leg or something and need to pay for an expensive doctors visit
[21:29:38] <gregcnc> i read that a round of that nail fungus medicine is 1000$
[21:29:45] <CaptHindsight> will/which
[21:29:53] <tiwake> I don't take bets for something that I don't think will happen :P
[21:30:00] <Valen> gregcnc: wtf? that crap is over the counter here for like $20
[21:30:14] <gregcnc> the one they advert on TV
[21:30:28] <gregcnc> jublia maybe?
[21:30:38] <CaptHindsight> the drug co's and the FDA have set the bar so high for entry for introducing new meds
[21:30:40] <gregcnc> new patented
[21:30:53] <LeelooMinai> tiwake: Right, well, unfortunatelly most humans are not tobots like you and sometimes break and die... Well, I guess robots break too, so tht was a bad analogy:)
[21:31:01] <gregcnc> and it was cheapt o develop compared to most anyting
[21:31:10] <tiwake> everything brakes and dies
[21:31:26] <tiwake> so meh
[21:31:28] <tiwake> whatever
[21:31:49] <tiwake> second law of thermodynamics
[21:32:09] <Valen> its like car insurance, you can self insure against damage to your car, it has a finite value, but you can't reasonably expect to pay $20M when your car catches fire and damages a bridge
[21:32:27] <CaptHindsight> drug and medical device co's pay the most ridiculous sums for chems, supplies and equipment
[21:32:34] <tiwake> I wouldent pay for car insurance if I didnt have to
[21:32:48] <tiwake> for the car stuff, I just have the bare minimum
[21:32:49] <Valen> and when you crash into some guys ferari?
[21:33:00] <LeelooMinai> Bankrupcy I guess:)
[21:33:14] <tiwake> yeah so? stuff brakes and dies
[21:33:21] <CaptHindsight> well self driving cars will put the burden on the car makers
[21:33:21] <tiwake> breaks*
[21:33:35] <Valen> or when he crashes into some families mid sized car, that they depend on to do everything?
[21:33:40] <LeelooMinai> Bankrupcy and living in a tent for the rest of life.
[21:33:43] <Valen> can you afford $30k?
[21:33:47] <Valen> tomorrow
[21:33:48] <tiwake> Valen: I'll fix it in the second case
[21:34:04] <tiwake> mechanical stuff can be fixed
[21:34:12] <CaptHindsight> tiwake: unfortunately most others don't have the skill
[21:34:16] <CaptHindsight> otr time
[21:34:24] <tiwake> too bad for them?
[21:34:37] <CaptHindsight> tiwake: have any kids?
[21:34:45] <tiwake> heh, no
[21:34:51] <LeelooMinai> tiwake: Will you reatach their torn limbs too? :p
[21:34:52] <CaptHindsight> I figured
[21:35:15] <tiwake> kids legs grow back
[21:35:25] * LeelooMinai imagins tiwake with a needle shouting "I will fix it!"
[21:35:34] <tiwake> lol
[21:35:53] * Valen figures he would use the donald trump bumper stickers off his car as a tourniquet
[21:35:53] <tiwake> CaptHindsight: big family though, three younger brothers and a younger sister
[21:36:25] <tiwake> Valen: I was really hoping for Ben Carson, then he could literally fix it :P
[21:36:28] <Valen> how would you feel if one of them were injured in a crash and the other party said "i'm bankrupt you're on your own"
[21:36:58] <LeelooMinai> tiwake: I read he thinks evolution is not true, so...
[21:37:11] <Valen> and of course said family member has no insurance because they follow your life system of not paying the extra for it
[21:37:58] <tiwake> legs are over rated anyway
[21:37:59] <jdh> fewer birthday presents you are on teh hook for.
[21:38:22] <LeelooMinai> tiwake:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3294139/Now-Ben-Carson-says-don-t-know-old-Earth-backs-creatonism-admits-natural-selection-denies-evolved-species.html
[21:38:40] <LeelooMinai> Pretty weird for a surgeon imo:)
[21:38:58] <tiwake> LeelooMinai: how is that relevant?
[21:39:22] <LeelooMinai> tiwake: Well, you wrote you hoped he would be around...
[21:39:35] <LeelooMinai> Doesn't seem like a sane person to me:)
[21:39:43] <tiwake> heh
[21:39:59] <Valen> I think ignorance must be some sort of protective shell they wrap themselves in
[21:40:02] <tiwake> insane is foaming at the mouth... never saw him do that
[21:40:19] <jdh> no, rabies is foaming at teh mouth
[21:40:19] <djdelorie> insane is doing the same thing twice and expecting different results
[21:40:57] <Valen> I mean literally when confronted with the mortality of his loved ones he laughs it off because to say anything else would mean his whole country is acting in an insane manner
[21:41:03] <tiwake> insane, as in the opposite of sanity
[21:42:23] <tiwake> Valen: Werner von braun did that... kinda dark humor... I suspect because of a lot of kind of awful stuff he has seen over his lifetime
[21:42:24] <LeelooMinai> When you look at whole of humanity as species and what they do, I am not sure that the average result is sane to be honest.
[21:42:42] <tiwake> normal is just an average
[21:43:13] <Valen> in general most countries have had decreasing crime and violence and increasing freedoms over the past few hundred years
[21:44:27] <Valen> I think we may have reached the point were people are now so under-exposed to it they don't realise what it would be like without the society that was built on it, whilst at the same time being so terrified of the boogeyman of it that they overreact to nebulous threats like terrorism
[21:45:29] <LeelooMinai> Yes, well, and that's what the media prays on.
[21:47:47] <Valen> The past 15 years or so feels like things have been going backwards *fast* I think the turning point came about in the 70's though with the rise of trickle down economics as an inherent truth. In real terms wages have been declining since then even though productivity has been increasing.
[21:48:22] <tiwake> freedoms have been squeezed... and squeezed...
[21:49:09] <tiwake> 1972 was the last Apollo mission, fancy that
[21:50:55] <Valen> yes, the rise of economic liberalism which you so fancy is directly correlated with the lowering of your wages, and yet you still support it
[21:52:18] <Valen> things like the space program are "socialist" programs its only because the government has systematically killed off its revenue sources and wealth inequality has risen to such heights that things like spaceX are now a "thing"
[21:52:38] <tiwake> well yeah, the invisible hand cant work if the bloodflow is cut off by the government
[21:52:53] <Valen> you have that perfectly backwards
[21:53:09] <Valen> you personally paid more tax last year than boeing
[21:53:49] <Valen> The future where we have corporate states living in an essentially feudal society seems fairly assured unless something is done to change
[21:53:53] <tiwake> heh, the tax structure is pretty horrible, for sure... a flat tax or fair tax would be ideal
[21:54:13] <Valen> you don't need that, that is essentially a regressive tax
[21:54:56] <Valen> you can have progressive taxes, you just need a government with enough balls and enough distance from private enterprise to act in the best interests of its citizens rather than its sponsors
[21:55:42] <tiwake> the best interest is certainly not so for the invisible hand
[21:56:30] <Valen> you know Bernie sanders policies would raise the tax paid by corporations to almost half of what they paid under that communist Ronald Regan?
[21:56:31] <tiwake> thats why USA's constitution was written to be a shell
[21:58:09] <Valen> 25 families in the USA control more wealth than 50% of your citizens combined
[21:58:31] <tiwake> and Ben Carson wanted to do a flat tax or fair tax... would not have a need for the IRS, or other companies like H&R block, and me needing to pay them to just do my taxes
[21:58:33] <Valen> and you can bet the 50% pays far far more tax
[21:58:48] <Valen> flat tax is not a fair tax inherently
[21:59:30] <Valen> if you are on minimum wage giving 20% of your money to the govt is a massive hit, if you are earning a million dollars a year it won't actually impact on your life in any meaningful way
[21:59:40] <tiwake> and I certainly don't want to work for somebody that is poor
[22:00:05] <Valen> huh?
[22:00:40] <Valen> the issue isn't you need new taxes, you need people to actually *pay* the taxes
[22:00:48] <eeriegeek> http://www.wsj.com/articles/top-20-of-earners-pay-84-of-income-tax-1428674384
[22:01:21] <Valen> because the wealthy have been modifying the law for so long and can afford the best accountants they actually pay the lowest tax to income ratio
[22:01:48] <Valen> eeriegeek: paywalled
[22:02:43] <Valen> http://money.cnn.com/2013/03/04/news/economy/buffett-secretary-taxes/
[22:02:56] <Valen> "Warren Buffett says even though he and other top earners are paying higher taxes this year, he thinks he's still paying a lower rate than his secretary."
[22:06:54] <LeelooMinai> It's kind of common sense that if the people woth most money have means to manipulate the system to make even more money, they will do it.
[22:27:52] <bobo> zlog
[23:05:07] <LeelooMinai> Can I control the speed of g0 movement?
[23:05:26] <LeelooMinai> I mean inside the g-code itself. Or do I have to use G1?
[23:06:47] <Valen> G0 is set by the machine I believe
[23:06:57] <Valen> its called a rapid because it goes as fast as the machine can
[23:07:17] <LeelooMinai> RIght, I think I can only use the INI file to set maximum speed.
[23:07:38] <Valen> why are you trying to change the rapid speed on the fly?
[23:07:45] <LeelooMinai> Well, it's for probing anyways, so I can use g1 - just not sure if it has any other side-effects. I understand that g1 is for actual cutting.
[23:08:06] <Valen> oh geez don't probe with G0
[23:08:13] <LeelooMinai> The reason is, I wanted to slow it down a bit, since all those rapid movements shake the 123 block I try to probe
[23:08:36] <Valen> yeah, then use G1 lol, or clamp your block
[23:08:57] * Valen had visions of you rapiding towards the bed lol
[23:09:04] <LeelooMinai> Right, I put a hammer (lol) on the side of the block so it does not move, but that was lame.
[23:09:53] <Valen> try toe clamps?
[23:10:13] <Valen> there is another kind as well that grabs onto the side of the block, can't remember the name now
[23:10:44] <LeelooMinai> I have an mdf on top of my extruded aluminum bed and that's all. I am just starting with this CNC, aligning axis etc.
[23:11:26] <Valen> wood screws are your friend ;->
[23:11:32] <LeelooMinai> It's not a big CNC, just my hobby project:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/16691429357
[23:12:23] <LeelooMinai> When I align everything I will actually screw everything together - now it's all loose
[23:13:55] <Valen> yeah some toe clamps straight on the bed would work fine
[23:14:02] <Valen> some decent side plates on that thing
[23:14:07] <Valen> what are the controllers under the bed?
[23:14:56] <LeelooMinai> I think Wantai or what they are called - Chinese, but work. And I have Mesa boards to drive them.
[23:15:41] <LeelooMinai> All just hobby stuff, so I take my time with everything.
[23:16:01] <LeelooMinai> Because if I don't bad things happen:p
[23:16:35] <LeelooMinai> For example, once I decided to measure something with a digital indicator in the spindle and guess what I did... :p
[23:18:38] <Valen> I'm guessing it involved more RPM than the indicator was rated for ;->
[23:19:06] <LeelooMinai> And me almost getting a heart attack, yes.
[23:20:00] <LeelooMinai> Indicator at 10k rpm makes rather big noise.
[23:20:07] <Valen> lol I imagine so
[23:20:36] <Valen> looks like a good machine anyway
[23:20:38] <Valen> your design?
[23:21:13] <LeelooMinai> Yes, I just jumped into it from 0-knowledge to making my CNC:)
[23:21:38] <Valen> looks decent at least ;->
[23:21:49] <Valen> we are making our own one now
[23:22:00] <Valen> CNC router with 4th axis
[23:22:07] <Valen> 1200x700 work area or so
[23:22:12] <LeelooMinai> Right, well, I read all about how rigidity is important, so maybe overdid some parts.
[23:22:29] <Valen> you can't actually do that ;->
[23:22:37] <Valen> unless you make it too heavy and slow
[23:22:45] <Valen> but you can add more power to fix that lol
[23:22:56] <LeelooMinai> Right - I will be milling, hopefully, at most alluminum.
[23:23:33] <Valen> this is an old writeup of ours
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/uncategorised-metalworking-machines/118358-phenolic-basalt-head-hm45.html
[23:23:41] <Valen> we have much thicker shower curtains now lol
[23:24:44] <LeelooMinai> lol, I was just going to write something like "wait, did you make it from plywood"...
[23:26:05] <LeelooMinai> I had once idea of making my table like this, but eventually went easy route and bought extrusions.
[23:27:27] <LeelooMinai> I put some sand into my aluminum tubes though.
[23:27:59] <LeelooMinai> Mostly in hope of dumping some vibrations - no idea if it actually does anything.
[23:28:22] <LeelooMinai> But I would be scared making whole CNC from concrete or what that is:)
[23:28:59] <LeelooMinai> The end result would probably go through my bedroom floor anyways.
[23:30:18] <zeeshan-shop> lol
[23:30:35] <Valen> polymer concrete is what they call it
[23:30:40] <Valen> all the cool kids are doing it ;->
[23:30:52] <zeeshan-shop> ps. 4 flute 1/8 end mill 3000 rpm , 0.0015 ipt seems to be working well with mist.
[23:30:56] <zeeshan-shop> in 6061
[23:31:04] <Valen> its a phenolic resin so it's pretty strong
[23:31:09] <zeeshan-shop> previously i blew it up at 0.0005 without mist
[23:31:12] <LeelooMinai> Right, I remember I was researching this 2 years ago or so - looking at resins, epoxy, etc.
[23:31:32] <LeelooMinai> But gave up since I could not get them cheap here.
[23:32:17] <Valen> that is a bit of a hindrance, thats why we used that other resin, it was cheap lol
[23:32:52] <LeelooMinai> It would be fuin to make a baby CNC this way though:)
[23:33:27] <LeelooMinai> Myself I build the machine as a kind of "CNC platform" to be honest - something I can experiment with - it's not only for milling.
[23:33:48] <zeeshan-shop> use all my scrap aluminum chips and mix it with resin!
[23:34:20] <LeelooMinai> I think people mix, what... hmm, sand, gravel?
[23:34:31] <LeelooMinai> It's not exactly expensive...
[23:34:40] <LeelooMinai> The resin part is the problem.
[23:35:04] <LeelooMinai> Also, not sure if aluminum be better - probably not?
[23:35:09] <LeelooMinai> would be*
[23:36:20] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, I need some better way to view liunuxcnc remotelly:/
[23:36:48] <LeelooMinai> I use vnc and it's kind of lame - cannot even get high resolution desktop.
[23:36:50] <Valen> VNC?
[23:36:55] <Valen> thats odd
[23:37:00] <Valen> vnc should work fine for you
[23:37:09] <Valen> it can do pixel perfect if you want it to
[23:37:20] <LeelooMinai> Well, it kind of works, but the desktop has maximum size of 1024 I think.
[23:37:26] <Valen> if you were feeling keen you could run axis over remote X
[23:37:37] <Valen> I use VNC all day on 1920 monitors
[23:37:48] <LeelooMinai> I tried that - my x server on windows crashed...
[23:37:57] <Valen> X on windows is a bad idea lol
[23:38:14] <Valen> it'll only run at whatever resolution the monitor you have physically attached is
[23:38:15] <LeelooMinai> VcXsrv 64 bit - could not take it and died:
[23:38:26] <Valen> you can run axis over the network I believe
[23:38:33] <Valen> so the CNC can actually be headless
[23:39:03] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, what exactly is axis - it's the GUI part, or motion part or what?
[23:39:53] <Valen> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Running_Multiple_User_Interfaces
[23:39:55] <Valen> the gui
[23:40:30] <Valen> you can run a VNC virtual desktop if you want higher resolution and the like
[23:40:41] <Valen> (it's probably the easiest to get working)
[23:41:32] <LeelooMinai> Hmm...
[23:42:04] <LeelooMinai> Ideal scenario I have in mind would be having native Windows GUI talking to linuxcnc "server", but not sure if that's possible.
[23:43:12] <Valen> there is no native windows gui
[23:43:26] <LeelooMinai> Right, that makes me sad a bit.
[23:43:31] <Valen> if you wanted to write one I'm sure nobody would object ;->
[23:43:39] <Valen> just use linux for your desktop ;-P
[23:43:42] <Valen> actually I wonder
[23:43:56] <LeelooMinai> I have 1001 yaks in progres, so cannot write it:) (but I could)
[23:43:57] <Valen> windows 10 has crap in it that lets you run ubuntu stuff
[23:44:13] <Valen> I wonder if that'd let you run axis natively
[23:44:25] <Valen> It doesn't need to talk to any realtime stuff
[23:44:52] <LeelooMinai> Windows 10 ubuntu stuff? ... no...
[23:45:07] <Valen> yes
[23:45:20] <LeelooMinai> I mean a read some time ago that MS is planning something - I think they had a demo of Linux apps running on Windows in the fiture
[23:45:24] <LeelooMinai> future*
[23:45:34] <Valen> https://blogs.windows.com/buildingapps/2016/03/30/run-bash-on-ubuntu-on-windows/
[23:45:36] <LeelooMinai> I think user space aps
[23:45:37] <Valen> no
[23:45:45] <Valen> it is there now
[23:46:00] <Valen> yes you can run the usermode stuff, like say axis I presume
[23:46:17] <Valen> I mean it lets you run apache from the ubuntu repos
[23:46:35] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, render me surprised...
[23:46:36] <Valen> so you might be an apt-get install axis away from your dream lol
[23:46:41] <Valen> same
[23:49:21] <LeelooMinai> Ok, I will try this. If my OS blows up, I can always blame you:)
[23:51:01] <Valen> I have the feeling you have just discovered a whole new field of yaks that are in need of shaving ;->
[23:51:19] <Valen> I'd do it in a VM myself if i were interested in minimising the time to operation lol
[23:51:50] <LeelooMinai> Maybe you are right... I have tendency to choose the most difficult ways and spawning new yaks...
[23:52:08] <LeelooMinai> Still, not sure - how do I tell axis that the other stuff is on another machine?
[23:54:46] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, I think that's the last line on the page you linked.
[23:56:05] <Valen> yeah it is
[23:56:22] <Valen> I do wonder if much of that has changed though, that page looks pretty old
[23:57:48] <LeelooMinai> I have Debian 8.3 VM - wonder if linuxcnc will work on it
[23:57:48] <Valen> you are going to need to start the server by hand before you start axis too
[23:58:16] <Valen> I'd just install a new VM from the CD, 5 minutes and its done ;->
[23:58:43] <Valen> then you can mess around with your nml files get that working then try doing the same thing on windows ;->
[23:59:16] <Valen> actually I'd suggest starting axis on the actual machine itself and attaching the other interface to it so you have a local copy working
[23:59:18] <LeelooMinai> You mean the linuxcnc iso?
[23:59:22] <Valen> yeah
