#linuxcnc | Logs for 2016-05-15

[02:28:23] <Deejay> moin
[02:28:37] <XXCoder> yo
[05:22:24] <MrSunshine> gah im thinking and thinking and cant figure out how these atc thingies work inside without a throught hole .. :/
[05:22:46] <MrSunshine> why oh why cant someone just tare one apart and show it .. like they do with every useless thing out there :P
[05:23:22] <XXCoder> make one?
[05:23:25] <XXCoder> honestly dunno
[05:24:00] <MrSunshine> i want to make one .. but cant figour hot how the release and retention mechanism works without a throught hole =)
[05:24:18] <MrSunshine> i guess a slot and a pin would work ...
[05:24:42] <MrSunshine> might do ... hmm =)
[05:25:56] <MrSunshine> i realy should draw my thoughts right now ..
[05:30:28] <Sync> which one MrSunshine?
[05:30:39] <XXCoder> dont share your sex thoughts
[05:31:57] <Sync> http://images.machinedesign.com/images/archive/72567scanningpo_00000050705.jpg easy, without a throughhole
[05:39:28] <archivist> but that has a through hole for the draw bar
[05:43:41] <archivist> Brown and Sharpe had a side grip on the old No 2 mill
[05:44:52] <archivist> very much manual not atc
[05:50:32] <archivist> MrSunshine, for best concentricity you need a central pull anyway
[05:58:29] <mase-tech> Hi peps
[06:08:44] <MrSunshine> i mean throught hole for the draw bar ...
[06:09:03] <MrSunshine> my spindle has no such thing on the router
[06:09:27] <Sync> get a spindle that has a throughhole
[06:09:57] <MrSunshine> http://www.usovo.de/shop/images/China1.JPG its these im thinking of . .but they are hella expensive and only available for 60mm spindle body .. mine has 80 =)
[06:10:44] <XXCoder> so making one is out of question
[06:11:17] <archivist> cheeeeep, at the moment http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/milling-machine/111994010415
[06:12:35] <archivist> http://www.lathes.co.uk/abene/
[06:12:49] <MrSunshine> i guess i could make a throught hole in the spindle .. but ... =)
[06:12:52] <XXCoder> heh too bad I'm not mechinically inclined
[06:13:12] <XXCoder> or I'd buy decent large-ish machine rebuild it
[06:14:40] <Sync> MrSunshine: they are quite cheap for what they are
[06:15:15] <Sync> interesting concept archivist
[06:15:28] <MrSunshine> Sync: yeah but i want to know how they work etc =)
[06:19:14] <Sync> just look at it
[06:19:21] <Sync> it works like the others
[06:20:50] <Sync> just that it uses the spindle to drive it
[07:42:48] <enleth> http://soekris.com/products/net6501-1/net6501-70-board.html - I wonder how would that work with Mesa and linuxcnc
[07:43:22] <enleth> notably, this board has no ACPI support whatsoever and all power saving disabled in the chipset
[07:43:52] <enleth> the designer thinks those features are unnecessary for his intended use case, which is VPN routing
[07:45:04] <enleth> I've got one of there around as a router but it might get replaced by a PCEngines board sometime soon-ish
[07:45:08] <enleth> *these
[07:47:02] * archivist sees the price and runs
[07:48:15] <enleth> yeah, they're not cheap
[07:49:05] <enleth> no idea why
[07:49:21] <enleth> very similar boards from other vendors are much cheaper
[07:54:41] <malcom2073> It's only an atom, so it's liable to make the user interface unpleasantly slow
[07:55:22] <enleth> malcom2073: it doesn't have any video outputs so that's a moot point anyway
[07:56:17] <malcom2073> Heh oh heh
[07:59:29] <enleth> actually, it doesn't have any video *adapters*
[07:59:53] <enleth> just a bare E600 and EG20T
[08:02:33] <enleth> E600 does have a graphics core, but it can be disabled completely and it is in this one, not even a trace of it on the PCI bus
[08:02:35] <malcom2073> Seems fairly ill suited
[08:02:40] <enleth> why?
[08:02:53] <malcom2073> no video, multiple extra network ports, 10x the price it needs to be
[08:03:09] <enleth> why would no video be a problem?
[08:03:22] <enleth> looks like one less piece of crap to handle and waste time
[08:03:42] <enleth> the price is absurd, I agree, but I already have one
[08:03:44] <malcom2073> how are you controlling linuxcnc? Purely by pendant?
[08:03:53] <enleth> uh, it's linux?
[08:03:58] <enleth> it's got network?
[08:04:02] <malcom2073> So, X forwarding?
[08:04:05] <malcom2073> So you need *two* computers
[08:04:13] <enleth> I've got, like, dozens?
[08:04:35] <enleth> and I'm much more comfortable with running the GUI on a separate box
[08:04:58] <malcom2073> To each their own
[08:05:31] <enleth> this might be an embedded development bias, but I cringed really hard when I read the docs section about latency testing telling me to fire up youtube and such and see how the system performs
[08:06:06] <malcom2073> We all have our baises, mine is not having much money to spend $400 to offload linuxcnc from my graphical PC heh
[08:06:14] <enleth> in my book, if it's controlling a piece of heavy machinery, it's got no business whatsoever to have a web browser
[08:06:21] <enleth> or a GUI for that matter
[08:06:30] <malcom2073> Oh I agree, but that's not really the linuxcnc mantra
[08:06:52] <malcom2073> Mesa pisses me off for that reason, that it *still* requires realtime on the PC even though it has plenty of hardware to completly offload the realtime component
[08:06:59] <enleth> as long as it's doable, that's fine
[08:07:21] <archivist> malcom2073, motion controller!
[08:07:26] <enleth> isn't that more of a problem with hal?
[08:07:32] <archivist> no
[08:07:34] <malcom2073> No
[08:07:48] <malcom2073> archivist: I understand :-P But like enleth, it has no business having a GUI or a web browser
[08:07:56] <malcom2073> said*
[08:08:22] <enleth> I mean, to be able to drop realtime completely, you'd have to move the boundary between what linuxcnc does and what mesa does a little bit further, don't you?
[08:08:35] <malcom2073> Yep
[08:08:42] <malcom2073> But again, that's not the point of linuxcnc
[08:08:48] <malcom2073> Much to my own annoyance :)
[08:09:31] <enleth> it could be *a* point, not *the* point, I guess
[08:09:43] <malcom2073> No, it would defeat the purpose: To close the control loop in linux
[08:09:53] <enleth> is that the prime purpose?
[08:10:06] <malcom2073> There was a mailing list "conversation" about it a while back
[08:10:41] <archivist> you should remember linuxcnc does have an split between the gui and motion so can be remoted that way, just 99.99% dont do it
[08:11:14] <enleth> archivist: sure, but malcom2073 has an interesting point about mesa
[08:11:19] <malcom2073> archivist: No point in having this arugment again :)
[08:11:26] <enleth> I'll have to look up that mailing list thread
[08:11:41] <archivist> malcom2073, it is the nml message part
[08:11:43] <malcom2073> But yes, you can separate the GUI on another PC
[08:11:57] <malcom2073> Doesn't change a thing though
[08:12:24] <malcom2073> I run my 3d printer that way because the beaglebone isn't powerful enough to do GUI heh
[08:12:43] <archivist> no way the kins can fit in a simple fpga
[08:12:56] <malcom2073> archivist: That is true.
[08:13:02] <enleth> kinematics, no, but loops? sure
[08:13:04] <malcom2073> But again, there's no point in having this arugment
[08:13:49] <enleth> I haven't been digging this deep in the code yet - how tightly is kinematics and motion planning coupled with motion control?
[08:13:50] <archivist> remember with some central brains the loops are linked
[08:14:09] <malcom2073> Yes, in linuxcnc they are
[08:15:05] <archivist> in a brainless one you have a problem eg all those step dir servo things with no feedback to the control
[08:15:55] <malcom2073> archivist: The brains don't need to know if you're falling behind, that's a fail/nofail, so can be much lower level than the planning control
[08:16:13] <archivist> I have only see a couple of external things that can talk to each other to help with that
[08:16:36] <archivist> malcom2073, its gearing, its important
[08:17:56] <malcom2073> archivist: Yes, and this is what you said previously and why I said it's not worth having this conversation again :)
[08:18:17] <archivist> hobbing machine,tapping cannot work without real axis following axis
[08:18:49] <malcom2073> It's impractical to have everything done on a device that few can program, much easier to keep it higher so many developers can touch it and add all the millions of features they want
[08:19:08] <malcom2073> For specific implementations it will work, but for general it's not practical
[08:20:44] <enleth> again, I haven't seen the code architecture around the planning/execution boundary, but right off the bat, I imagine this could, in princible, be decoupled, with a software implementation present for most existing use cases
[08:20:56] <archivist> so how accurate should a workshop grate 1" gauge block be
[08:21:44] <enleth> unless the way it's coupled now makes such a split completely impractical without a huge refactoring no one would want (whch is a valid reason not to do it), I just don't see a point of saying "no because no"
[08:22:23] <malcom2073> "no because not all use cases would transfer over" is legitimate
[08:22:28] <archivist> well mach is going decoupled and the external boxes are struggling with tapping
[08:22:44] <malcom2073> It's hard to tell if mach's issues are from mach sucking, or their hardware sucking heh
[08:23:08] <enleth> malcom2073: fair enough, as long as they really wouldn't
[08:23:34] <archivist> hardware is one problem and buffering to the hardware another
[08:23:49] <malcom2073> enleth: HAL logic allows an almost infinate combonation of hardware coupling configurations. Hard to reproduce that in hardware without repgorammability
[08:24:24] <archivist> hard/closs to impossible
[08:25:37] <enleth> OK, got it
[08:26:41] <malcom2073> enleth: but if you find something... let me know :) Since I don't deal in edge cases, I'd love a better solution for me
[08:28:10] <enleth> malcom2073: I might start looking into it as soon as I actually get my mill working on linuxcnc, I'm sure this will keep bugging me just out of principle
[08:29:50] <enleth> getting it working is on hold as I have to retrofit new servo drives first under the original control, and that in turn requires new power supplies, for which I need to save up some money
[08:29:53] <archivist> I have a local to me mach fan and his griping is amusing
[08:30:26] <malcom2073> I hear enough scary things from the couple of mach guys around here that I wouldn't ever try it, ignoring the fact that I can't afford it heh
[08:31:59] <DaViruz> Sync: i managed to get the ktm connector apart, they had glued the threads.. but there is not a single marking inside
[08:32:03] <DaViruz> except for pin numbers
[08:39:00] <pcw_home> I think the problem with moving the real time part to simple hardware is that you end up with
[08:39:01] <pcw_home> mach (a buffered system) and all the problems that entails
[08:39:03] <pcw_home> If you want the power and extensibility (and ease of contribution) of Linuxcnc, you need to run the real
[08:39:04] <pcw_home> time portion on a real OS on a system with fast floating point (so you can run both hal and the trajectory planner in real time)
[08:42:33] <pcw_home> and have access to communications (say for Ethercat/Modbus/Powerlink etc) and general network access
[08:42:34] <pcw_home> once you have all that you can drop the GUI if you like, but its not likely to make a big difference unless you are
[08:42:36] <pcw_home> doing software stepping
[09:01:50] <jdh> and for the cost of a cheap mesa board, there is no need to do software stepping for anything but the most low-budget machine
[09:02:00] <jdh> s/cheap/inexpensive/
[09:09:23] <pcw_home> Once you only need a 1 KHz servo thread most of the real time issues go
[09:09:24] <pcw_home> away, GUI or not since almost any PC or modern ARM hardware can manage this
[09:09:26] <pcw_home> (laptop and tablets and other devices with aggressive power management excluded)
[09:10:41] <pink_vampire> https://youtu.be/y01UUJIjGi8
[09:15:20] <Sync> interesting DaViruz
[09:16:09] <DaViruz> it seems extremely unlikely they decided to design their own connector though
[09:39:05] <Sync> yeah
[09:39:12] <Sync> oh hmm
[09:39:20] <Sync> I can ask my ktm dealer if they know more
[09:39:29] <Sync> (I buy my leathers through them)
[09:57:39] <DaViruz> if you can be bothered that would be cool
[09:58:08] <DaViruz> i just sniffed some canbus data between the charger and the battery
[09:58:14] <DaViruz> pretty massive amounts get sent continually
[09:58:23] <DaViruz> (i am on a quest to make my own more compact charger)
[12:43:16] <archivist> ffs http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bench-Micrometer-0-4-by-Sigma-Instead-Co-Ltd-C-W-Mitutoyo-Dial-Gauge-vintage-/222118712167
[12:43:43] <archivist> it needs "some" restoration
[12:45:45] <_methods> but it's a "collectors item"
[12:45:47] <_methods> lol
[12:46:59] <Duc> I like how he says look at it carefully
[12:47:18] <Duc> "Please look at pictures carefully before purchasing.
[12:47:18] <Duc> "
[12:48:02] <archivist> I am just in the middle of writing up a page on my bench micrometers
[12:50:05] <archivist> not supposed to have a dti bodge http://www.archivist.info/cnc/bench_micrometer/
[12:50:35] <maxcnc> hi all from a very cold germany
[12:51:10] <maxcnc> Magnifikus: ?
[12:52:58] <maxcnc> archivist: why are the pictures on your page that large it takel lots of downloadtime
[12:53:10] <maxcnc> keep them below 500k
[12:54:01] <_methods> it's his website i'm pretty sure he can make the images whatever size he would like
[12:54:04] <gambakufu> when compiling linuxcnc for uspace - will it run in realtime mode when running with a rt-preempt kernel, or do I need to configure the compilation differently?
[12:55:13] <maxcnc> gambakufu: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Uspace
[12:57:21] <CaptHindsight> _methods: NO, you must obey and conform!
[12:59:37] <_methods> i tell ya
[12:59:58] <_methods> guy does everyone a service with his site and there's always some asshat on here complaining about it
[13:00:35] <_methods> at least donate some money if you want to bitch
[13:02:30] <maxcnc> just wanted to tell
[13:03:13] <CaptHindsight> and there's a good response ^ ^
[13:05:15] <CaptHindsight> some people are a waste of bandwidth
[13:06:02] <maxcnc> folks is there a side on how many downloads linuxcnc has version related
[13:06:23] <maxcnc> lots of here are still on 10.04
[13:06:35] <maxcnc> even 8.04 and 2.3.5
[13:06:57] <archivist> if it works, keep using it
[13:07:07] <maxcnc> agree on that
[13:07:47] <maxcnc> neverchange a runnning system
[13:07:51] <archivist> old iron went cheap http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Milling-Machine-Adcock-Shipley-Horizontal-Type-2AGU-Universal-/121980477240
[13:08:26] <maxcnc> what will be idf the UK leaves the EU
[13:10:29] <zeeshan> ROFL ROFL
[13:10:31] <zeeshan> HAHAHAHHAHA
[13:10:40] <zeeshan> just watched nyccnc's latest video
[13:10:50] <zeeshan> he's finally realizing the tormach isnt cutting it for a pro shop
[13:10:55] <zeeshan> only took 3 years.
[13:11:24] <maxcnc> that sounds like Polymorphism
[13:11:34] <maxcnc> he will be in same range
[13:11:38] <maxcnc> ;-)
[13:11:44] <maxcnc> im off Gn8
[13:12:31] <_methods> yeah i picked up my browne and sharpe #2 light horizontal for $100
[13:12:44] <Duc> I guess I havent seen the new videos yet
[13:13:33] <_methods> nobody wants to touch a horizontal nowadays
[13:14:00] <archivist> _methods, did you get the vertical head?
[13:14:04] <_methods> nah
[13:14:08] <_methods> one day i'll find one
[13:14:31] <_methods> but i'd rather have the rotary that came with it
[13:14:55] <_methods> it hooks up to the table for cutting spiral gears
[13:14:58] <archivist> and the gearing :)
[13:15:15] <_methods> doubtful i'll ever find it though
[13:15:33] <archivist> seen that extra in books
[13:16:21] <_methods> the table rotates too
[13:16:41] <archivist> I have used a No2 :)
[13:16:51] <_methods> quite a machine
[13:16:58] <_methods> for $100
[13:17:00] <archivist> I liked it
[13:17:00] <_methods> lol
[13:17:16] <_methods> can't really go wrong for that price and it's small foot print
[13:17:19] <archivist> except the silly endmill fitting
[13:17:45] <_methods> silly end mill fitting?
[13:18:31] <archivist> endmill is solid with the 30 int side lock taper
[13:18:52] <archivist> or was it 20 int
[13:19:06] <_methods> this one is nmtb 40
[13:19:40] <archivist> that is in the horizontal I am talking about the vertical
[13:19:45] <_methods> ooohhh
[13:19:58] <_methods> yeah i don't have the vertical head
[13:20:04] <archivist> the addon
[13:20:37] <archivist> shame I did not take pics of the one I used
[13:21:51] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRmv4uD2RQ4
[13:21:52] <zeeshan> rofl
[13:22:05] <zeeshan> can trump do that
[13:22:11] <zeeshan> i love our prime minister :D
[13:22:22] <zeeshan> engineering background
[13:23:42] <_methods> http://i.imgur.com/UWhlnTm.jpg
[13:23:47] <_methods> there's mine
[13:25:09] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fadal-VMC40-CNC-Mill/111993115233
[13:25:15] <_methods> i'll have to make a coolant pan like the one on that adcock and shipley you just posted
[13:25:29] <_methods> reserve not met
[13:25:43] <CaptHindsight> there are a few of them
[13:26:01] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fadal-4020-cnc-mill/111993165062
[13:26:04] <archivist> powered by battery drill
[13:26:40] <_methods> i'm sure the market should become even more saturated with fadals in the coming years
[13:27:02] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hyundai-8G-cnc-lathe-/111994042433 $500 RNM
[13:27:23] <CaptHindsight> yeah, he's posting a whole bunch at low starting prices
[13:27:47] <Duc> the fadals just dont have the speeds any more compared to the new stuff
[13:27:53] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/sch/devindpatrick/m.html?item=111993115233&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562
[13:28:04] <archivist> chicken to list without reserve
[13:28:10] <CaptHindsight> yup
[13:28:22] <_methods> well with fadal being dead there won't be any more "real" support
[13:28:40] <_methods> so people will be just kickin them to the curb as more stuff starts breaking on them
[13:28:47] <CaptHindsight> they probably won't sell
[13:28:56] <Duc> most places keep spare fadals for parts
[13:29:02] <_methods> yeah
[13:29:04] <Duc> we have two or three for parts
[13:29:05] <CaptHindsight> then he'll list them again with real starting prices
[13:30:19] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matsuura-MC-500VS-DC-Twin-spindle-/322107462108 $4500 or best
[13:30:48] <CaptHindsight> looks almost new
[13:31:07] <Duc> they must have taken a pressure washer to that one
[13:32:00] <CaptHindsight> kept indoors, not operated by monkeys
[13:33:04] <archivist> been painted to hide the monkey scrapes
[13:33:06] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-Mori-Seiki-MV-45-40-Vertical-Mill/181216515583 $3500 or best
[13:33:19] <archivist> you can see original red in the tray
[13:34:53] <CaptHindsight> the 500's were typically red
[13:35:12] <CaptHindsight> 700's and 1000's were green
[13:36:40] <Duc> I cant believe NYC cnc is trying to run a production shop off tormach machines. The new videos are funny
[13:37:09] <CaptHindsight> I still haven't found a small lathe with air bearings for ~$1k
[13:38:08] <djdelorie> he's always referred to it as a job shop, not a production shop
[13:38:57] <gambakufu> compiling a 4.4.9 kernel on a nuc with 1.6ghz celeron and a usb stick as a hard drive. let's open a betting pool on when this is done. who's got 2018?
[13:39:51] <Duc> djdelorie: very limited job shop
[13:40:14] <djdelorie> less limited than his "shop" in his apartment in NYC :-)
[13:42:07] <Duc> I see alot of wasted space and unused. Cant imagine his building cost
[13:42:22] <djdelorie> and why are we putting him down? He's having fun, supporting his family, and inspiring cnc newbies...
[13:42:47] <djdelorie> *and* he runs linuxcnc under the hood, which is more than some folks here do ;-)
[13:43:39] <djdelorie> he mentioned in one of his videos that they're bringing in more equipment to use the new space; they just moved to a bigger place
[13:44:18] <gambakufu> I don't watch all his vids, but he's also focusing on training... some of that space is for classes.
[13:44:55] <djdelorie> yup, with a dedicated video room, and a chunk of space for working on vehicles
[13:46:04] <CaptHindsight> when I heard forehead printer this is not what I expected http://stacker3d.com/product/stacker-s4-industrial-3d-printer/
[13:46:45] <Duc> so is he going to be a tormach training center. I think tormach has it place in a R&D and school enviroment. Hell Ive used one in the past
[13:47:00] <djdelorie> but... it costs more than 4x the cost of a regular printer...
[13:47:33] <CaptHindsight> but it's industrial grade and has a 25.5" Z
[13:47:48] <CaptHindsight> stuff that in your reprap
[13:47:50] <gambakufu> all I know is he's a bit ahead of me with my 2009 zen toolworks cnc. on the bright side, I have the 12x12 model!
[13:48:06] <zeeshan> duc did you see the latest video?
[13:48:15] <Duc> zeeshan: which one
[13:48:22] <djdelorie> mine is only 14" Z but it was 1/10 the price
[13:48:30] <zeeshan> where he talks about how he needs to buy the best tools to attract more business
[13:48:36] <zeeshan> cause the lower end stuff isn't cutting it
[13:48:40] <CaptHindsight> I wonder if 5 heads are possible?
[13:48:44] <zeeshan> he's had so much trouble just running a job shop w/ the tormach
[13:48:45] <zeeshan> lol
[13:48:53] <zeeshan> he didnt specifically say tormach
[13:48:55] <zeeshan> but you know he means it.
[13:49:06] <zeeshan> he dropped his chiense tooling for sandvik
[13:49:17] <zeeshan> and kennametal stuff
[13:49:34] <gambakufu> I recall him talking about VMCs like a year ago maybe?
[13:49:45] <gambakufu> he said he was just starting his research into them
[13:50:07] <Duc> most people forget that a tool may cost more but last so much longer
[13:50:12] <CaptHindsight> holy molten plastics Batman, 5 heads! http://www.3ders.org/articles/20150108-start-up-digitrax-reveals-their-upcoming-3d-printer-with-five-extrusion-heads.html
[13:50:20] <zeeshan> then you got john grismo on the other hand
[13:50:29] <zeeshan> who went a to a proper vmc and runs it like he
[13:50:32] <zeeshan> he's running a tormach
[13:50:33] <zeeshan> :P
[13:50:36] <CaptHindsight> 6 is probably impossible
[13:50:37] * zeeshan shakes head
[13:50:55] <djdelorie> Capt: they said that about razor blades too :-)
[13:51:01] <Duc> Tormach is awesome for a home garage for someone that wont learn electronics
[13:51:07] <CaptHindsight> shit! http://3dprintingindustry.com/2015/07/15/impressively-large-scale-six-head-3d-printer-ready-meet-demands/
[13:51:13] <CaptHindsight> 7?
[13:52:20] <gambakufu> yeah, but it seems that with all 6 heads intalled the print area on the x is cut by 6 :)
[13:52:31] <gambakufu> congrats on you 2cm by 2cm model!
[13:52:33] <gambakufu> your
[13:52:40] <djdelorie> turning a 3D printer into a production tool defeats its original purpose, which is making a prototype to see if the design works...
[13:52:41] <CaptHindsight> looks like 6 is max
[13:52:54] <zeeshan> duc its great for hobbiest
[13:52:55] <zeeshan> thats about it
[13:53:01] <CaptHindsight> nah, it should be for production
[13:53:03] <zeeshan> and learning the basics
[13:53:25] <Duc> we had them for teaching mechanical engineering students how to run some cnc
[13:53:57] <CaptHindsight> maybe since bytes only have 8 bits, 6 is the max nozzles the software can handle?
[13:54:41] <Duc> zeeshan: Just watched the video where he talked about new machines
[13:54:45] <CaptHindsight> with all that data overhead, error correction, etc
[13:55:12] <Duc> its hard to compete on price with someone that has a nice cnc
[13:56:04] <zeeshan> buying a brand new vmc means you definitely need the jobs to support it
[13:56:16] <zeeshan> a typical good vmc for production is like what 200k?
[13:56:19] <zeeshan> 150 k
[13:56:28] <djdelorie> way back when I heard someone say that a CNC machine pretty much has to run all the time to pay for itself
[13:56:34] <zeeshan> you better be making 37500 a year for 4 years to pay it off
[13:56:50] <zeeshan> not even considering maintenance and overhead
[13:56:58] <Duc> Tool holders can run you 60k per machine
[13:57:02] <zeeshan> djdelorie: no necessarily
[13:57:30] <djdelorie> hopefully it's more economical these days
[13:57:37] <Duc> but alot of guys start out in their garage with old cncs or haas machines
[13:57:47] <zeeshan> my machine cost me 8k by the time i converted it
[13:57:54] <zeeshan> some months i can bring in 8k working on it part time
[13:58:15] <zeeshan> i think the machine needs to be sized for the jobs you're going to be doing
[13:58:23] <zeeshan> and AT LEAST hast to be servo driven
[13:58:28] * malcom2073 snickers
[13:58:39] <zeeshan> if youre doing hobby stuff, none of this stuff matters
[13:58:53] <malcom2073> No I totally agree: I wouldn't dream of doing production or even real jobs with a stepper machine
[13:59:05] <zeeshan> i have a really good friend who runs a pro shop
[13:59:10] <zeeshan> guess what he has at home?
[13:59:12] <zeeshan> a tormach
[13:59:13] <malcom2073> i'm just poking at you heh
[13:59:20] <zeeshan> he uses it for a hobby to build his own stuff
[13:59:41] <zeeshan> guess who built his fixture plate?
[13:59:44] <zeeshan> <-
[13:59:54] <zeeshan> he wanted the dowels to be located within a thou
[13:59:57] <zeeshan> didnt trust his own machine to do it
[14:00:31] <zeeshan> i just make fun of that john nycnc guy because he tries to persuade people "the all mighty tormach can do it all"
[14:01:11] <zeeshan> just like him convincing people fusion is the best cad software out there
[14:01:17] <zeeshan> these guys are sponsored to say this shit
[14:01:22] <malcom2073> "best free" I'd argue
[14:01:46] <malcom2073> I don't like it though
[14:01:46] <djdelorie> I've been trying fusion and it's convenient for the few things I'm doing
[14:03:02] <Duc> how are the files stored for fusion? on the cloud only?
[14:03:06] <zeeshan> no
[14:03:09] <zeeshan> you can store them locally also
[14:04:42] <Duc> ah ok Ive never used it yet
[14:05:42] <zeeshan> djdelorie: what other software do you use for cad?
[14:06:09] <djdelorie> I used heekscad before but typically I emit gcode directly with custom software
[14:06:19] <djdelorie> openscad for 3D models
[14:06:23] <zeeshan> hobby?
[14:06:28] <djdelorie> yeah, all hobby
[14:06:38] <djdelorie> my cnc machine is made of plywood, after all
[14:11:26] <gambakufu> the intergration of CAM with hsmexpress into fusion/inventor is really a "selling" point for me. before, I used freecad & heekdscad, and re-exporting everytime I made a mistake was so annoying.
[14:12:38] <zeeshan> yes CAM integration is super important in cad
[14:12:41] <djdelorie> likewise, easy integrated cam is a win. Being able to have a laptop at the cnc machine for tweaking the cam, using the same cloud model from the main desktop, is a bonus
[14:12:48] <zeeshan> it makes no sense for me to keep them separate
[14:12:54] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/BApjBdn.png
[14:13:01] <zeeshan> for example i changed those pockets by a couple tho
[14:13:16] <zeeshan> and moved some hole locations after i had already programmed because i realize the waterjet cut the parts oversize
[14:13:27] <zeeshan> so i changed the model and the tool paths updated :D
[14:14:16] <zeeshan> ive got my cam programs in a windows shared folder
[14:14:23] <zeeshan> and a cifs mount on the machines
[14:14:44] <gambakufu> I cam into dropbox :)
[14:14:56] <zeeshan> haha i was doing that for a while :D
[14:34:38] <FAalbers_> Hello ... total CNC noob here ! :)
[14:35:50] <FAalbers_> Got my Chinese CNC 30*40 setup with LinuxCNC. Want to start my very first real project. Create a birdhouse out of wooden sheet.
[14:36:15] <malcom2073> Seems like a reasonable goal
[14:36:34] <FAalbers_> Gonna startup Solidworks today an start designing while following a tutorial.
[14:36:47] <FAalbers_> Will probably be asking many questions :)
[14:37:46] <FAalbers_> Don't worry, will try to do internet resaerch BEFORE asking syupid questions :)
[14:38:06] <djdelorie> stupid questions are OK as long as you don't ask them twice
[14:38:45] <FAalbers_> That's why I use Evernote. Jot personal notes to keep as refference !
[14:39:01] <Jymmm> djdelorie: wut?
[14:39:28] <djdelorie> Jymmm: as opposed to asking them over and over again for weeks on end...
[14:39:33] <Jymmm> djdelorie: wut?
[14:39:44] <malcom2073> Over, and over and over and over and over
[14:40:05] <zeeshan> do you guys think the liveplot should clear everytime you run a new program?
[14:40:07] * Jymmm rolls malcom2073over and over and over till he falls off the cliff.
[14:40:15] <zeeshan> or should it be manually done
[14:40:20] <malcom2073> zeeshan: Only evertime you clear it
[14:40:25] <zeeshan> y
[14:40:44] <malcom2073> If you run multiple programso n the same part?
[14:40:50] <somenewguy> tell me more about hsmexpress/fusion
[14:40:51] <Jymmm> djdelorie: ;)
[14:40:59] <zeeshan> yes malcom2073
[14:41:00] <somenewguy> oh wait is it part of acad inventor?
[14:41:10] <malcom2073> For instance, with toolchanges, it's easier to run multiple programs if you don't have a touchoff sensor
[14:41:26] <malcom2073> So it's nice to see all the paths taken
[14:41:32] <zeeshan> ah
[14:41:40] <malcom2073> At least, for me
[14:41:42] <zeeshan> but im not sure if youve noticed this
[14:41:51] <zeeshan> it starts clearing on its own eventually
[14:41:54] <zeeshan> if the toolpath is long enough
[14:41:59] <malcom2073> I'd not noticed, I don't run super long programs
[14:42:39] <FAalbers_> First design question. I see a lot of design tutorials starting with creating parts and the doing assembly to get to final product. ISn't there an approach to start froman already created 3D model of , lets say , a birdhouse and derrive parts from there ?
[14:43:06] <malcom2073> FAalbers_: If you find a birdhouse in the format your cad system accepts, you could do that
[14:43:11] <zeeshan> FAalbers_: thats usually done using multibody modeling
[14:43:12] <somenewguy> FAalbers_, that is kinda a wierd direction to go from, as you get more practice w/ SW i think you will notice that
[14:43:19] <malcom2073> But for SW it'd have to be a solidworks file to maintain the parametric nature of it
[14:43:54] <somenewguy> However in SW if you have a solid "part" which is really an assembly saved as a part, and you do all your cut extrudes and retain the cut body to make the individual parts, you can save out those bodies
[14:44:20] <somenewguy> I can see certain applications where that might be easier than making part models and then assembling them, a birdhouse may be one of htose examples lol
[14:44:27] <FAalbers_> Was thinking to load an existing OBJ file and use that in the background to derrive parts from
[14:44:33] <somenewguy> How long have you been using SW?
[14:45:19] <FAalbers_> somenewguy, I did some of the basic part tutorials to cut, extrude , etc. Also some basic Assembly.
[14:46:05] <somenewguy> djdelorie, what are you doing to generate CAM from openscad? I use openscad only to make models for gears that I 3d print but if there is some smart toolchain you are using I would be curious to look at it
[14:46:12] <somenewguy> esp since it probably runs on linux yes?
[14:46:36] <djdelorie> no, I only use openscad for 3D prints
[14:46:47] <somenewguy> djdelorie, oh I misread
[14:46:56] * somenewguy checks channel
[14:47:00] <somenewguy> ok I'm not totally nuts lol
[14:47:08] <djdelorie> I checked out some of the cam for linux and - although it was a cursory review - it seems that each cam tool is only good for one type of path
[14:47:38] <FAalbers_> I'm using CamBam , purchest it last week. I have to admit, I am using a cracked version of SW because it's extreemly expensive
[14:47:38] <djdelorie> i.e. a 3d contouring cam tool, or a 2d outline cam tool, etc
[14:47:45] <somenewguy> FAalbers_, there is a book called the SW bible, I think the latest version is 2014 or 15, however it is the BEST text out there on the topic, does a good job of showing you how to use features in the right order and gives you a lot of warning that will stop u from using the stupider features in SW
[14:48:17] <somenewguy> aside from that every text reference is junk that I have seen, online tutorials will cover everything else pretty well
[14:48:36] <somenewguy> the issue is specific tutorials are just that, 'specific' and you miss the keys to good SW workflows
[14:49:10] <somenewguy> it is very easy to use sw to create a nice part/assy which you made in 30 minutes and looks great, but takes 2 hours to modify any one design feature if you did it in a non SW friendly way
[14:49:31] * somenewguy has been using SW for fun and profit about 9 years now
[14:49:37] <FAalbers_> somenewguy, Thanks for the book info. Right order is essential :)
[14:49:39] <Sync> zeeshan: yeah idk
[14:49:58] <somenewguy> golden rule: make all sketches fully defined before you move on
[14:50:09] <somenewguy> silver rule: use the hole wizard!
[14:50:32] <zeeshan> ive had a problem in solidworks which i havent had in inventor
[14:50:42] <zeeshan> use hole wizard, make a 1/4-20 hole, place like 4 of them
[14:50:54] <zeeshan> now pattern that 1/4-20 hole
[14:51:02] <zeeshan> do another hole wizard and do another 1/4-20 hole
[14:51:07] <zeeshan> the holy quantity isnt correct
[14:51:10] <zeeshan> (when you go to draft)
[14:51:18] <FAalbers_> The reason why I'm asking about starting from a full model is because i have been doing 3D CG for 25 years professionally. I finally want to go from the vidual to the tangible. 3D printing is easy as hell. Proper manufactoring seems the next great challenge for me . :)
[14:51:20] <somenewguy> it is "correct",it just doens't lump the same size otgether
[14:51:48] <malcom2073> FAalbers_: you're going to have to relearn a *lot*
[14:51:57] <somenewguy> zeeshan, however they may have fixed this is 2016 for very specific cases, or so the rumor goes. The office upgrades ina few weeks and I can let you know
[14:52:00] <FAalbers_> somenewguy, 'fully defined' means all measurements set correctly yes ?
[14:52:17] <zeeshan> somenewguy: yes i heard this too
[14:52:21] <somenewguy> faalbers_ yes, in a sketch there are no items you can grab and drag around
[14:52:31] <zeeshan> at the end of this year i gotta buy either inventor or solidworks
[14:52:36] <somenewguy> the bottom of hte window when you are in a ksetch will say "fully defined" or "sketch not fully defined"
[14:52:48] <somenewguy> also in the feature tree there is a "(-)" next to the sketch name
[14:53:04] <somenewguy> so "sketch1" is fuly defined, "sketch1(-)" is not fully defined
[14:53:25] <FAalbers_> malcom2073, Yeah, different way of creating stuff. It's all real now :)
[14:53:29] <somenewguy> zeeshan, the trick I use is make a sketch with points at all hte holes you need, pattern etc
[14:53:41] <somenewguy> then add a master hole wizard feature and pickup all those points
[14:54:06] <zeeshan> somenewguy: i ended up doing that also
[14:54:10] <zeeshan> but extra step :/
[14:54:15] <somenewguy> this works super well for context based holes, say some holes in a plate are to hold it in place, then you have a pattern of 2 different parts being mounted
[14:54:43] <somenewguy> you can have your plate mounting holes defined at the part level, the mounted parts defined in context at the part level, then a hole wizrd feature that picks them all up
[14:55:10] <somenewguy> now if you assembly gets messed up or goes out of context, only the locations of the holes gets nuked, the actual hole feature survives but goes all orange on you
[14:55:47] <somenewguy> the second bonus is if all the holes for one of those parts should be a different size, you can just pop them out of the hole wizard and pop them back in as a new hole wizard feature, but hte locations are already defined in the part
[14:56:28] <somenewguy> a fairly common application for me when I am doing panels with electrical connectors mounted to the outside when the EEs keep lying to me about how "done" the design I am working off of really is.
[14:56:36] <zeeshan> haha
[14:57:01] <FAalbers_> Another question, you can create parts and then connect them together on flat areas. But I have also seen that you can use joints like this ... http://makezine.com/2012/04/13/cnc-panel-joinery-notebook/
[14:57:34] <FAalbers_> Should I start just with flat joining first ? Or start using those joint techniques right away ?
[15:11:02] <Meduza> what does "Unknown word where unary Operation could be" mean?
[15:11:50] <Tom_itx> zeeshan i just started looking at the cam in catia last week
[15:11:55] <Tom_itx> looks quite detailed
[15:12:22] <zeeshan-shop> :)
[15:12:27] <zeeshan-shop> it better be!
[15:12:30] <Tom_itx> yeah
[15:12:46] <Tom_itx> i do think they requre a 3rd party something to edit the post though
[15:12:53] <Tom_itx> haven't figured that out yet for sure
[15:13:22] <Tom_itx> some things you can get to but others maybe not without it
[15:17:47] <Duc> somenewguy: learned the story on the cold saw
[15:18:13] <somenewguy> had someone thawed it on you Duc?
[15:18:31] <Duc> According to the seller he got it from him buddy who accidently burned down his machine shop. The machinist was quenching some tool steel in a plastic bucket full of oil when he lost hold of the metal and drop the piece. The piece melted the bucket which let oil flow all over the floor and the glowing metal lit the oil on fire. Down went the shop. Who the hell uses a plastic bucket for quenching oil!!!
[15:18:55] <somenewguy> huh, I was closer than I expected!
[15:19:18] <Sync> or doesn't have an extinguisher around Duc
[15:19:35] <Duc> http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/shop-tools/2320113-wilton-cold-saw-rebuild.html#post36792129
[15:19:43] <Duc> started a rebuilt thread
[15:20:41] <Duc> I need to find a 2 hp 3450 motor that I can hook a VFD to instead of a 2 speed ac motor
[15:21:04] <zeeshan-mill> nice duc
[15:21:21] <Duc> just finished tear down and scrubbing this morning
[15:22:36] <Duc> we did drop it 6ft onto the concrete once which broke a dowel pin and a boss but I can fix that
[15:22:42] <Duc> dam thing is all of 720 lbs
[15:23:23] <somenewguy> still lighter than my welder I'm trying to kick back into life!
[15:24:07] <somenewguy> If it were me I would consider using a SSR to replace the panel switches since they are all toasted, a SSR and some cheap toggles would be less $$ than finding proper high current witches I would think
[15:24:59] <somenewguy> wilton? more like wilted! get it?
[15:25:03] * somenewguy flees the room
[15:25:50] <Duc> that was bad
[15:26:49] <Duc> wonder if I should just buy the stock motor or get a stock motor: machine shaft, wire in a vfd
[15:28:02] <Sync> are you sure the motor is even shot?
[15:28:38] <FAalbers_> Hah ! Found the BirdHouse I'm going to create ! :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aejFsvU0FLo
[15:29:58] <witnit> well, if you are going to go through the efforts, you should add dovetail interlocks, they look so much nicer :)
[15:30:32] <somenewguy> as long as it wasn't on when it was on fire, do you really think the motor is toatsed?
[15:31:12] <somenewguy> motor wire is typically good to 150-200 deg C, and considering hte damage to everything else maaaybe itdidn't get that hot?
[15:31:21] <somenewguy> or does it measure shorted
[15:31:48] <somenewguy> just gotta figure out how to get grease/oil into the toasted bearings
[15:32:17] <somenewguy> either way a way more worthwhile than my restore project last weekend of an old sears roebuck trim saw that had clearly fallen down a flight of stairs
[15:32:23] <Duc> Sync: Guessing so since the wiring was all melted on it, fan is completely melted
[15:32:27] <Duc> but it might not be
[15:32:30] <somenewguy> thing is worth like 40 bucks and I spent 12 hours maching brackets to patch it back up
[15:32:52] <Duc> somenewguy: Ive done that before
[15:32:54] <somenewguy> I see the controls panel wireing shot, but the squirrel cage could be ok...
[15:33:15] <Duc> Ill try to ohm the motor out today
[15:33:23] <witnit> somenewguy: motors are a dime a dozen, just slap one on that suits your needs and use that one for a conversation piece
[15:33:33] <Duc> the squirrel cage is shot
[15:34:07] <somenewguy> oh ok, where I live they aren't that copious unless you konw ppl, but since you seem to havea real shop you likely have a good ear to find this junk, err quality replacement parts
[15:34:33] <FAalbers_> witnit, Going to use 1/5 inch plywood . That's too thin for dovetail I think
[15:34:51] <Duc> Ebay is your friend for motors but I will need to turn down the shaft on anything standard I buy
[15:35:00] <witnit> well most big towns have an industrial electronics reseller
[15:35:01] <somenewguy> Oh you would appreciate todays project, my free 80 gallon compress started popping the breaker, turns out the run cap shorted but I needed it this weekend
[15:35:31] <witnit> oh FAalbers_ yeah I guess you would have to cut multiple layers and then stack them for the dovetails to hold up
[15:35:34] <Duc> let me grab some pics of the motor
[15:35:39] <somenewguy> raided the trash/refuse piles at work and scared up 8 1kv caps that added up to the rating I needed, and I am back in buisness in time to get my bike on the trails
[15:35:44] <somenewguy> shoulda taken pics
[15:35:47] <SpeedEvil> somenewguy: :)
[15:36:19] <somenewguy> I love patching things w/ overkill kludges
[15:36:37] <somenewguy> luckily I had juussssst enough 1.5" heatshink left over to make the thing not a death trap
[15:37:23] <witnit> oh guy, guis, g ii's, I hooked that big lathe up I bought, 3"+ bore hydraulic chuck and such... and I used toa 7i33 and some cheap amps to run the crosslide around... im excited
[15:38:05] <witnit> I never had a bigish lathe before
[15:40:17] <Duc> [URL=http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/shefron/media/Machinery/Wilton%20Cold%20Saw/20160515_151036_zps3ozpqqkt.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd465/shefron/Machinery/Wilton%20Cold%20Saw/20160515_151036_zps3ozpqqkt.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
[15:40:24] <Duc> [URL=http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/shefron/media/Machinery/Wilton%20Cold%20Saw/20160515_150950_zpst8d4ztfj.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd465/shefron/Machinery/Wilton%20Cold%20Saw/20160515_150950_zpst8d4ztfj.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
[15:41:23] <witnit> duc what model is the machine?
[15:41:42] <Duc> Wilton FK350-2
[15:43:16] <witnit> duc: I tried this into google
[15:43:17] <witnit> Wilton FK350-2 filetype:pdf
[15:43:41] <witnit> and the manual appears to be first link
[15:43:46] <Duc> Ive got the PDF file from the web of the manual. Thanks
[15:44:28] <Duc> there is alot of company that build the exact same machine from the looks. and I think Jet bought out wilton
[15:45:18] <witnit> duc I was reading the troubleshooting area, I think I found the solution
[15:45:20] <witnit> Motor Check that it has not burnt out, that it turns freely and
[15:45:20] <witnit> that there is no moisture in the connection terminal
[15:45:20] <witnit> board box. The winding can be rewound or replaced.
[15:45:40] <witnit> clearly your problem was in the manual, you should have rtfm
[15:45:42] <witnit> =D
[15:46:17] <Duc> LOL yep I still need to see if the motor turns freely. after removing the melted fan in the back
[15:46:23] <witnit> It looks like you got a really good buy
[15:46:47] <Duc> $100 and say I have to put 1000 into it. Im still ahead
[15:46:59] <witnit> 1000?!?!
[15:47:43] <Duc> blade is 200, electronic switches 100, Hitachi VFD 200, motor 200
[15:47:53] <Duc> I always estimate high
[15:47:58] <Duc> stock motor is 750
[15:50:23] <witnit> whats the model# on the motor?
[15:50:51] <Duc> Dongjin but its a 3450/1720 RPM motor. so 2 speed
[15:52:09] <MrSunshine> Sync: yes but its the pulling and pushing of the "drawbar" that i cant realy figure out =)
[16:00:50] <Sync> spring stack and pneumatic cylinder
[16:04:56] <MrSunshine> Sync: yes but it needs to reach the center of the shaft that goes throught the holder =)
[16:05:07] <MrSunshine> as it cant reach up the top of stuff
[16:07:31] <Sync> yes
[16:07:35] <Sync> but that is not a problem
[16:12:02] <MrSunshine> Sync: well how do you do it then ? can you draw a solution for me? =)
[16:12:34] <MrSunshine> my thoguht was a slot in the shaft and a pin that is pushed up by a spring .. and a connection to a rod that goes to the drawing element thingie
[16:12:53] <MrSunshine> https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/13236220_10154180625713648_1195811556_n.jpg?oh=18e55cb0829e8a4275d11c0d8240dc75&oe=573B8B05
[16:14:10] <MrSunshine> where the upper cone is the mating cone for the ER20 collet holder in the spindle
[16:14:25] <MrSunshine> and the bottom is something like SK15 or something like they use in those holders
[16:15:35] * JT-Shopp thinks it is 5 o'clock at my sisters house
[16:16:21] <Sync> yeah, there probably is a slot in the outer part
[16:16:28] <Sync> there are a few different variants
[16:17:31] <varesa> I want to measure the RPM of my spindle for closed loop feedback
[16:19:02] <varesa> I'm trying to look for optical encoder wheels online but I'm hardly finding any
[16:19:39] <Deejay> gn8
[16:21:43] <varesa> Any tips on what/where to look for?
[16:23:49] <Roguish> how big? ppr
[16:24:26] <Roguish> encoder wheels: http://www.avagotech.com/products/motion-control-encoders/code-wheels/
[16:24:39] <Roguish> Avago is the old HP.
[16:25:31] <Roguish> http://www.avagotech.com/products/motion-control-encoders/incremental-encoders/
[16:25:58] <varesa> If I could find one that is bigger than 30mm diameter I could easily install it on top of the spindle axle
[16:26:07] <JT-Shop> hola Roguish
[16:26:20] <Roguish> hey JT.
[16:26:20] <varesa> even 1ppr would be okay
[16:26:26] <varesa> no need for anything high res
[16:26:54] <Sync> just mill your own
[16:27:47] <Roguish> hey JT. was out riding this morning, and a dumb Suburban turned right over me. just spend 2 hours in ER getting checked out. nothing broken, just road rash.
[16:28:20] <varesa> I thought of DIYing one but I'm not sure how hard it would be to get it balanced enough
[16:28:35] <jdh> `that sucks
[16:29:01] <Roguish> yeah, young woman driver 'I just didn't see you....'
[16:29:13] <jdh> put your fucking phone down next time
[16:29:20] <jdh> right turned?
[16:29:30] <JT-Shop> yeah how can she see when she is texting and putting on makeup
[16:29:39] <Roguish> yeah, right turn into a side street.
[16:29:42] <XXCoder> little bit assumations there
[16:29:57] <JT-Shop> did she get a ticket?
[16:30:02] <Roguish> XXCoder, not too far off around here.
[16:30:13] <XXCoder> Roguish: I was talking about phone and makeup
[16:30:30] <Roguish> immediately called 911 andf and got a CHP to respond.
[16:30:38] <XXCoder> she wasnt careful I'm sure of that, but dunno about those
[16:30:40] <Roguish> in 20 minutes.
[16:31:38] <XXCoder> anyway glad youre largely ok
[16:31:56] <Roguish> anyway. i'm bruised and scraped, but ok. probably gonna be really sore for a few days.
[16:32:31] <Roguish> gonna go for the throat though. press it as hard as a I can.
[16:33:12] <XXCoder> I got hit by lady who did left turn without stopping
[16:33:23] <XXCoder> totaled my car and made me dizzy for 9 months stright
[16:33:33] <XXCoder> went off scot-free.
[16:33:34] <Roguish> she let her passenger drive the vehicle away. and was not carrying her license ......
[16:33:47] <Roguish> CHP was not happy about that.
[16:34:02] <XXCoder> that is weird
[16:34:11] <SpeedEvil> Roguish: :) (that you're not damaged)
[16:34:21] <jdh> drove away before chp showed up?
[16:34:35] <XXCoder> SpeedEvil: techinically skin road rash is damage but yea lol
[16:34:50] <Roguish> her passenger. she stayed. i didn't speak to her much. thought it wise....
[16:34:59] <SpeedEvil> Road rash is almost the price of bike ownership.
[16:35:22] <Roguish> did tell her if she left the scene it would be hit and run which would be 10 time worse......
[16:35:38] <XXCoder> wonder if they had something to hide in vehicle
[16:36:09] <Roguish> SpeedEvil... I know. most cyclist I know has been hit at least once, some more......
[16:36:37] <jdh> I have yet to be hit. Have gone down a couple times
[16:36:49] <XXCoder> was almost fatally hit when i was young
[16:37:01] <XXCoder> I saw car and moved 2 feet to left just in case
[16:37:08] <XXCoder> well I needed that as car touched my pedal
[16:37:30] <Roguish> this one was entirely her fault. clear weather. i was dressed in bright red and white. light traffic.
[16:39:10] <Roguish> pisses me 'cause I'm sure the mess will spill out over several months with insurance companies. Small claims court it I have too. In CA small claims is up to 20K
[16:39:41] <Roguish> plus, this is the land of lawyers. and I know lots.....
[16:39:45] <Roguish> who ride...
[16:40:11] <Roguish> can ya tell i'm a bit cranky?
[16:40:15] <XXCoder> doctors must have easy job there. lawyers is gutless heartless and head and butt is inchangable
[16:40:22] <SpeedEvil> Roguish: Cams can be awesome.
[16:41:03] <XXCoder> (kidding on lawyers, its from that old joke)
[16:42:04] <JT-Shop> I've not ridden either bike since starting the new equipment building or the big dig
[16:43:12] <Roguish> SpeedEvil. not sure what a cam would have shown this time, unless it was facing backwards, but I know your point.
[16:44:01] <SpeedEvil> Roguish: Your road position, for one
[16:45:00] <Roguish> I was dutifully in the official and marked bike lane. in a heavily bike area.
[16:45:23] <JT-Shop> wish we had bike paths for road bikes
[16:45:26] <Roguish> but yes. a cam would confirm that.
[16:45:51] <jdh> we have some bike lanes for road bikes.
[16:46:03] <jdh> cars tend to drive in them, especically around curves
[16:48:44] <JT-Shop> I was surprised to see off the side of the road going from Anchorage to Seward on hwy 1 and hwy 9
[16:49:03] <JT-Shop> paved riding paths off the side of the roads
[16:51:24] <pcw_home> JT-Shop: did you find your 8 stepgen 7I90 config
[16:55:11] <Duc> witnit: motor spins freely but wires crumb when you touch them pulling back cover off now
[16:55:34] <andypugh> crumb?
[16:55:51] <pcw_home> crumb-le
[16:56:26] <Duc> crumble the saw was in a fire
[16:57:08] <Roguish> that would be the new fangled bio-degradable insulation, like my MBZ had...
[16:57:49] <witnit> well Duc you should spread its ashes over your coolant drum and say a prayer
[16:59:22] <witnit> Duc: does it use a standard motor shaft and mounting plate or is it screwy?
[16:59:35] <Duc> 7/8 shaft machined down to 3/4
[17:04:26] <Sync> hm, you can probably just reconnect to the magnet wire inside
[17:04:30] <Sync> that should have survived
[17:05:59] <Duc> Im hoping so
[17:20:23] <Duc> sync: how do you think it looks
[17:20:25] <Duc> [URL=http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/shefron/media/Machinery/20160515_165207_zpsejepzluh.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd465/shefron/Machinery/20160515_165207_zpsejepzluh.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
[17:21:46] <Sync> looks great
[17:22:10] <Sync> I'd megger it tho
[17:22:14] <Duc> I should be able to rewire the leads
[17:22:18] <Duc> megg?
[17:22:18] <andypugh> had to edit the url: http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/shefron/media/Machinery/20160515_165207_zpsejepzluh.jpg.html
[17:22:37] <Duc> megger?
[17:23:20] <Sync> insulation test
[17:23:39] <andypugh> Looks like a happy motor to me.
[17:24:22] <enleth> it does look a little smoked where the windings meet the junction box opening
[17:24:30] <Duc> ah and how do I do that
[17:24:58] <Sync> by using an insulation tester (which megger is a common company)
[17:25:02] <Sync> which is why I used the term
[17:25:12] <Sync> because it seems to be prevalent in the english speaking countries
[17:25:17] <andypugh> If you have the budget, a motor-rewinder would probably re-connect the windings and do an insulation test for about £30.
[17:26:18] <Duc> Ill have to check into that
[17:26:19] <Sync> you can also just #yolo it
[17:26:28] <Sync> but expect it to burn
[17:26:35] <enleth> Duc: not that you'd want to do that, but I did a ghetto style repair of a motor this size once by gutting it and putting a smaller motor inside the original shell, padding it carefully to get it centered. The original flange was weird and I had no means of making an adapter, especially not in half an afternoon
[17:26:48] <enleth> worked for the week it took to get a proper replacement motor
[17:26:57] <Duc> I woulnt mind paying 100 dol,ars to avoid the 750 for a motor and burning down my shop
[17:27:09] <andypugh> But a normal mutimeter would be a useful test. Just check that the resistance is the same of each 2-out-of-three and that none connect to the case.
[17:27:16] <Duc> enleth: now that is funny I dont really need this running for awhile
[17:28:28] <Sync> well, a motor is not going to burn down your shop
[17:29:39] <Duc> monday Ill call around to a few shops and if its to high then Ill do the work
[17:35:54] <JT-Shop> PCW: I was just asking if it was possible, don't need it right away. Thanks for thinking of me
[17:36:01] <Duc> brb
[17:36:09] <JT-Shop> one more thing fixed on the crawler :)
[17:41:13] <pcw_home> JT-Shop: the ST18 config should work for direct step drive connections (18 stepgens on the first 36 pins)
[17:45:16] <Sync> ah btw pcw_home the bitfile now works
[17:45:42] <Sync> just some wrong transceiver ic on my pcb, should have that fixed tomorrow
[17:48:38] <pcw_home> Thats good, it should not be too difficult to make custom bit files
[17:48:40] <pcw_home> (though some helper scripts would make it easier)
[17:50:36] <pcw_home> I've been meaning to automate the module ID section
[17:50:37] <pcw_home> (so its built at run time by the pinout information) but have not got around to it
[17:55:27] <Sync> well, there were just a few things to figure out
[17:55:43] <Sync> but if it all works I'll have my mill controlled over sserial
[19:29:56] <XXCoder> is there a way to set shortcut in such way that each press changes axis to next one?
[19:30:09] <XXCoder> like this, X (press) Y (press) Z (press) X so on
[19:30:39] <XXCoder> and is there also a way to increase or decrease distance traveled in manual increment?
[19:32:15] <Duc> sync: all the winding are shorted together
[19:32:39] <andypugh> That might be correct
[19:33:42] <andypugh> On a 3-phase motor you expect continuity between any two of the three wires, and the resistance will be a few ohms (or less).
[19:34:18] <andypugh> For example my 1.3kW 300V servo is 1.3 ohms per phase.
[19:34:33] <andypugh> (err, 900W)
[19:35:22] <Duc> Im getting 0 ohms between all the leads. 1 has 0 ohms between each set of wires
[19:35:28] <Duc> and so on
[19:35:33] <Duc> all shorted togehter
[19:37:17] <XXCoder> no ideas on my question?
[19:37:27] <Duc> never mind some are 1.3 ohms my meter is slow and sucks
[19:38:13] <Duc> I think I need to go do some reading to understand this better
[19:39:36] <Duc> andypugh: what should I read between each set of wires. I have the motor opened up and the tie down disconnected
[19:40:04] <andypugh> What do you read?
[19:40:38] <andypugh> How many ends do you have?
[19:41:01] <Duc> 5 leads that have 2 wires each
[19:41:17] <Duc> 6 i mean
[19:41:20] <Duc> missed one pair
[19:42:38] <andypugh> It’s a bit hard to say.
[19:42:49] <andypugh> But I would expect very pair to be the same.
[19:42:50] <Erant> FloppyDisk: Finally got myself a very nice Atlas 618.
[19:42:55] <Duc> Ill take a picture with colored wires
[19:43:11] <Duc> each wire to frame Im getting at least .40 megaohms
[19:43:15] <Erant> With, for some reason, all the original documentation. Including the f'ing receipt from Sears.
[19:44:13] <Erant> 4 jaw chuck, er32 spindle plus complete set of collets, etc.
[19:45:01] <Duc> its a 2 speed AC motor 3450/1720 rpms
[19:45:50] <andypugh> Duc, ah, right
[19:46:01] <andypugh> In that case resistances will differ
[19:46:25] <Duc> do I need to make a matrix for it to make sense
[19:47:01] <andypugh> This rather unclear image might help:http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/transformers-phase-converters-and-vfd/multi-speed-motor-connections-102289/
[19:47:31] <andypugh> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/transformers-phase-converters-and-vfd/multi-speed-motor-connections-102289/
[19:47:45] <andypugh> (without the help: pre-pended to the URL)
[19:49:04] <andypugh> Duc: Sorry, I need to catch the hotel restaurant.
[19:49:18] <Duc> no problem
[19:49:22] <andypugh> Be back in a couple of hours, I guess,
[19:49:23] <Duc> ill do some more research
[19:58:53] <XXCoder> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-POWER-TOOL-VARIABLE-Speed-Control-Box-220-240-VOLT-European-UK-220-240-Volt-/131728157796
[19:58:57] <XXCoder> what you guys think
[20:01:12] <XXCoder> it cold allow me to keep using my 27000 rpm router
[20:01:36] <XXCoder> however I'm not sure if speed and volt is linear, like if 50% power, 50% speed
[20:02:19] <gregcnc> no, it's not linear
[20:02:30] <XXCoder> whats graph like
[20:02:40] <gregcnc> a cliff
[20:02:46] <XXCoder> ?
[20:04:01] <XXCoder> well care to explain it some more?
[20:04:14] <gregcnc> trying to find an actual graph
[20:04:23] <XXCoder> ok
[20:05:53] <XXCoder> I gonna go, ding me with link :)
[20:06:00] <XXCoder> so I can read even if log rolls over
[20:06:28] <gregcnc> can't find one
[20:07:24] <XXCoder> np, thanks for trying
[20:35:55] <Duc> anyone else have motor experience. I think I have it figured out. I have a 2 speed 1 winding motor
[20:36:07] <Duc> and thats why the leads all ohm together around 1.3 ohm
[21:07:22] <Polymorphism> !log
[21:11:24] <Tom_itx> try zlog
[21:11:27] <Tom_itx> zlog
[21:13:06] <Polymorphism> ah
[21:13:07] <Polymorphism> ty
[22:16:42] <XXCoder> hmm I got an idea
[22:17:06] <XXCoder> zeeshan: wanna make it?
[22:41:47] <XXCoder> dunno how well this would work
[22:41:47] <XXCoder> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-POWER-TOOL-VARIABLE-Speed-Control-Box-220-240-VOLT-European-UK-220-240-Volt-/131728157796
[22:45:41] <somenewguy> Duc you still in here?
[22:45:42] <XXCoder> hey andypugh
[22:45:49] <andypugh> Hai
[22:45:58] <XXCoder> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-POWER-TOOL-VARIABLE-Speed-Control-Box-220-240-VOLT-European-UK-220-240-Volt-/131728157796 what ya think
[22:46:04] <XXCoder> to control my router speed
[22:46:49] <djdelorie> I have something like that (120V) for my router. It works, but poor speed control esp at slow speeds.
[22:47:19] <andypugh> It’s what they are for, but if you are not in the UK, why not get one with the right plug for you?
[22:47:31] <XXCoder> andypugh: my router is 220v
[22:47:32] <andypugh> There ae much cheaper ones out there, too,
[22:48:01] <somenewguy> 15? is it just a SCR or something?
[22:48:17] <djdelorie> well, triac, but yeah, probably
[22:48:35] <somenewguy> OH I see it now, needs to be brushed/universal
[22:48:40] <djdelorie> that too
[22:48:59] <somenewguy> I was expecting a link to an inverter then I saw the price lol
[22:49:19] <andypugh> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-220V-4000W-High-Power-SCR-Electronic-Volt-Regulator-Speed-Controller-Motor-/141409048579?hash=item20eca2d803:g:-uQAAOSwVghXEa78
[22:49:20] <XXCoder> andypugh: where?
[22:49:22] <somenewguy> I just missed another free treadmill last weekend in my quest to get speed control on my minimill
[22:49:44] <XXCoder> that is very nice but my spindle is a hand tool
[22:50:04] <XXCoder> and I use convertor to get 120v to 220v
[22:50:39] <andypugh> So get a cheap extension lead, cut it in the middle, and insert that
[22:51:06] <XXCoder> thats an idea
[22:51:08] <andypugh> What converter do you use>
[22:51:13] <XXCoder> lemme find euro extension cord
[22:51:15] <XXCoder> sec
[22:51:30] <andypugh> Your router has a euro plug?
[22:51:40] <XXCoder> yeah its only one that will fit my machine
[22:52:15] <andypugh> _Which_ euro plug? We have at least 4. Despite the fact that they work, the French, German and Italian ones are actually not made to the same dimensions....
[22:52:33] <XXCoder> http://www.amazon.com/Goldsource-STU-750-Voltage-Transformer-Converter/dp/B0022TL1BE?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00
[22:52:35] <andypugh> And the UK one is different again.
[22:52:48] <XXCoder> router is plain 2 rods
[22:53:28] <andypugh> OK, one of the French/German/Italian ones then. Hard to tell them apart.
[22:53:58] <XXCoder> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/500W-Air-Cooled-Miling-motor-AC-220V-Spindle-Motor-with-6mm-collet/1903872955.html
[22:54:01] <XXCoder> the spindle
[22:54:53] <andypugh> XXCoder: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schuko
[22:55:04] <XXCoder> ok
[22:55:30] <andypugh> The map there is informative, you see how Italy uses a mix of french and Italian standard plugs :-)
[22:56:17] <XXCoder> dang
[22:56:23] <XXCoder> Schuko extensions is expensive
[22:58:07] <andypugh> Shuko is 4.8mm 19 centres, Italian is 4mm at 19mm centres, French is 4.8 and 19mm like Shuko but has a very different earth pin arrangement.
[22:59:11] <XXCoder> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-80-Metre-pvc-Power-Cable-3x-1-50-Mm-Extension-2-5-10-20-Meter-/111943292312 ?
[22:59:42] <XXCoder> ironically that box and cable cost more than simply buying that thing I showed bit ago
[23:00:06] <XXCoder> $20 for power variable
[23:00:37] <XXCoder> actually they are around same in price
[23:01:09] <andypugh> They keep trying to mandate a common Euro-plug but there are two problems. One is https://xkcd.com/927/ and the other is that the best plug/socket from a technical standpoint is the British one. But it is big, bulky and ugly so won’t do.
[23:01:46] <somenewguy> andy I do not envy europeans and thier power and plugs etc
[23:01:48] <XXCoder> gonbna love xkcd.
[23:02:00] <XXCoder> just grab usa standard
[23:02:04] <XXCoder> add a peg or something
[23:02:05] <somenewguy> I recently started traveling for work and lord help us all
[23:02:27] <XXCoder> or invent new standard lol
[23:02:30] <somenewguy> XXCoder, the brits I was working with laugh at our little plugs "how on earth can you trust that little toy for 110"?
[23:02:32] <andypugh> The US plugs are horrible flinsy things.
[23:02:46] <XXCoder> lol
[23:03:05] <XXCoder> [probably why usa overcompensate
[23:03:06] <somenewguy> this was brought on by our making jokes about the rediculous size of thier higher power 220 circuit (maybe 15 amp? dont recall)
[23:03:09] <XXCoder> tiny plug
[23:03:16] <somenewguy> hey man it was cold!
[23:03:17] <djdelorie> which of the 17 or so "US plugs" are you referring to? ;-)
[23:03:39] <andypugh> Also, UK house wiring is all done on 32A ring-mains, so you actually do need a fused plug to protect the 13A (or 5A) appliance cords.
[23:03:42] <XXCoder> I only know of 2, and one works with both
[23:04:00] <somenewguy> I was ready to light all the fused plugs on fire by the time we were done with that project!
[23:04:35] <somenewguy> Luckily I was the only american who knew about them so we didn't chasse our butts for too long when we were left unatteneded, but we started running out of fuses!
[23:04:47] <andypugh> I had reason to buy a US plug on friday, as I lopped off the UK plug on ny laptop charger.
[23:04:50] <XXCoder> I wonder what would happen if I just stright up plug my 220v router to 110v output
[23:04:56] <djdelorie> http://www.stayonline.com/reference-nema-straight-blade.aspx
[23:05:08] <somenewguy> although I will say your 400 volt fuse boxes are a bit nicer than ours, fully discconecnting both sides of the fuses
[23:05:21] <djdelorie> I have at least 5 different plug types in my house
[23:05:35] <somenewguy> xxcoder, would probably trip the breaker
[23:05:48] <XXCoder> oh yeah forgot about 220v power source for beefy tuff like clothes dryer
[23:05:54] <somenewguy> without spinning up enough speed it will make gobs of torque and draw too muc hcurrent
[23:06:11] <somenewguy> AC motors are wierd beasts
[23:06:19] <somenewguy> sorry, induction motors
[23:06:23] <XXCoder> somenewguy: think mines DC
[23:06:49] <XXCoder> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/500W-Air-Cooled-Miling-motor-AC-220V-Spindle-Motor-with-6mm-collet/1903872955.html
[23:10:17] <bobo_> andypugh are you in Detroit now ?
[23:10:41] <andypugh> Technically I think I am in Dearborn
[23:10:46] <somenewguy> Duc, I would call a motor winder and see what they charge to come out and look at waht you have, I think you just need to replace the pigtails and you would probably get some good life out of that thing
[23:11:27] <somenewguy> I mean you could probably do it yourself, but if you hauled the motor to htier shop I would imagine it would be pennies compared to the work of mating something new up to that thing.
[23:12:37] <somenewguy> If you are confident with your soldering skills you could redo it yourself tho. you wouldn't be able to test the wire for shorts without a good ohmmeter, but you could check the inductance
[23:12:37] <andypugh> I looked into a similar project and decided that by the time I had bought the wires, insulation, special tapes and laquer it would cost me pretty much the same as they motor shop was quoting.
[23:12:58] <somenewguy> I don't think he needs to re-wind it tho, jsut replace the leads
[23:13:46] <andypugh> Yes, I was just looking at digging out the (internal) star-point to reconfigure a working motor for 220 rather than 440V
[23:14:16] <somenewguy> I would put like 6vac across it and measure hte current draw on each leg, if its the same the windings are probably still good
[23:14:40] <somenewguy> more trustworthy than measuring resistance since it will be <1 ohm if good
[23:15:35] <somenewguy> no way to test the rotor tho, but would not be a catstropic failure on power up like a shorted winding would be
[23:16:03] <somenewguy> if the windings test good, I think you can apply power and measure the current it draws or rpm. if it matches nameplate ratings you are good to go
[23:17:03] <andypugh> Sleep tim
[23:17:08] <andypugh> Night all