#linuxcnc | Logs for 2016-05-12

[01:34:27] <mase-tech> Hi
[02:03:10] <FloppyDisk> what a honey: http://www.westauction.com/auction/1474/item/matsuura-mc-500v2-cnc-vertical-milling-machine-powers-up-does-not-run-121607
[02:05:38] <archivist> go for it
[02:08:47] <archivist> I think that is similar/same as the machine skunkworks is converting
[02:14:48] <FloppyDisk> I think you're right.
[02:15:01] <FloppyDisk> I'd love to go for it, not sure it'd fit in the garage:-(
[02:15:16] <archivist> adjust the garage
[02:15:32] <FloppyDisk> :-)
[02:16:01] <FloppyDisk> Too many projects, let me retrofit my little lathe first, then I can reach out for bigger iron. But, that would be nice!
[02:16:09] <archivist> I know one in here has a go faster bump in the garage roof
[02:16:40] <FloppyDisk> Nice.
[02:24:41] <Deejay> moin
[02:35:56] <mase-tech> moin moin
[02:38:55] <FloppyDisk> yup
[04:48:35] <EricBear> everning all
[05:28:05] <EricBear> everning all
[05:50:53] <XXCoder> hey
[05:51:11] <EricBear> Hi there
[05:52:20] <EricBear> I ma trying to find out if there is any channels pretaining to CNC oe Mach3
[05:52:34] <EricBear> I ma trying to find out if there is any channels pretaining to CNC or Mach3
[05:52:52] <EricBear> New to irc
[05:54:08] <XXCoder> there used to be few
[05:54:11] <XXCoder> #cnc for one
[05:54:12] <jthornton> you have to pay for mach answers
[05:54:31] <XXCoder> but linuxcnc basically is one of damn few live on cnc channel. none on mach as it sucjks
[05:55:06] <jthornton> sugar coating it a bit lol
[05:55:14] <EricBear> only have windows so have to go with what i have
[05:55:29] <XXCoder> build computer for linuxcnc
[05:55:36] <XXCoder> I used my retired old computer for linuxcnc
[05:55:56] <archivist> I use cheap old PCs
[05:55:59] <EricBear> so is freecad Linux
[05:56:28] <XXCoder> yes
[05:56:38] <XXCoder> never looked for windos version of freecad if any
[05:57:18] <EricBear> has it got a cam program that intergrates into freecad
[05:57:48] <XXCoder> freecad has cam, but it sucks hard
[05:58:06] <EricBear> well thats not good
[05:58:26] <EricBear> I have a few that i play around with
[05:58:28] <XXCoder> freecad is mainly dveeloped by 3d printing guys so not suprising
[05:58:54] <EricBear> im inth 3d printing and cnc router table
[05:59:43] <EricBear> thats why i am trying to find a irc channel for mach3
[06:00:09] <EricBear> Maybe I should start one up
[06:00:37] <archivist> freenode does not really cater for proprietry stuff
[06:00:46] <XXCoder> yeah
[06:01:10] <_methods> freecad works on windows too
[06:01:17] <_methods> or at least it used to have a windows installer
[06:01:31] <XXCoder> windows one probably older
[06:01:39] <EricBear> Being new to irc i didnt realise that thank you for letting me know
[06:02:06] <_methods> even if something only works on linux you can try it out on a virtual machine
[06:02:23] <_methods> just download vmware player and install whatever linux version you want
[06:02:33] <_methods> linux is free and so is vmware player
[06:02:47] <EricBear> there are a lot of cad programs out there hard to work out which is best suited for my needs
[06:03:45] <EricBear> I have done that before. more that one way to skin a cat
[06:03:49] <_methods> there aren't many free ones so your choices are very limited if you're looking for a FOSS solution
[06:05:00] <XXCoder> freecad is pretty dang awesome for cad really.
[06:05:10] <XXCoder> cam aspect is very much a alpha
[06:05:20] <EricBear> can you recomend what would be a good irc channel to start looking in for help with cad, cnc, amd mach3?
[06:05:42] <XXCoder> EricBear: make sure get latest 0.16 freecad as it rocks and 0.13 sucks
[06:06:00] <XXCoder> cnc here, cad somewhat here but also freecad (if for freecad)
[06:06:03] <archivist> no known irc for mach
[06:06:08] <XXCoder> mach3 nonexistant
[06:06:41] <_methods> my personal advice is to use the free (for students and startups) autodesk inventor and their hsmworks for cam since whatever you learn with that program is directly applicable to industry should you decide to ever pursue this line of work professionally
[06:07:23] <XXCoder> fusion 360 is nice but negative (big one) is cloud only storage
[06:07:25] <_methods> you don't have to be a student either they don't actually check and you don't need a .edu email to sign up
[06:07:39] <XXCoder> _methods: how is hsmworks?
[06:07:48] <XXCoder> havent gotten around to trying that.
[06:07:53] <_methods> its alright
[06:08:09] <_methods> works great, especially for the price
[06:08:12] <_methods> hard to beat
[06:08:13] <EricBear> I have that however i only need something that guys can quickly design and then get it in the router table in a fairly time
[06:08:33] <EricBear> d/l Freecad now
[06:08:43] <XXCoder> linuxcnc funnily has some functions that save you time, if youre engraving decals or whatever
[06:08:44] <_methods> what are you using now that isn't working?
[06:08:48] <XXCoder> picture -> gcode
[06:09:47] <EricBear> any thing and every thing Im a member a HSBNE here in Australia
[06:10:04] <_methods> zlog
[06:10:11] <XXCoder> west usa here
[06:10:18] <EricBear> and would like to set it up for them to use
[06:10:32] <EricBear> Queenslane Oz here
[06:10:37] <XXCoder> my suggestion? setup linuxcnc
[06:10:43] <XXCoder> use that windows pc as cam station
[06:10:49] <_methods> well i have no idea what that means but if you have access to industry grade cad/cam i'm afraid freecad is not going to help you
[06:10:53] <XXCoder> because its far easier to get cam for windows than linux
[06:11:37] <EricBear> HSBNE is hacker space brisbane. A mens shead for geks
[06:14:10] <EricBear> Well guys many thanks for your advice. I will go have a look at Freecad and have a play around with it
[06:14:26] <_methods> alright have fun
[06:14:43] <EricBear> I always try to
[06:23:41] <mase-tech> XXCoder: so u use win + vb + linux ?
[06:23:50] <mase-tech> because we need a good cam ?
[06:24:08] <XXCoder> I use virtualpc to run fusion 360
[06:24:11] <XXCoder> I gonna try hsmworks
[06:24:41] <mase-tech> host is linux
[06:24:46] <XXCoder> yep
[06:24:47] <mase-tech> my host
[06:25:03] <mase-tech> what about run win xp as guest
[06:25:14] <mase-tech> only for the cam
[06:25:23] <XXCoder> yeah only cam
[06:25:34] <XXCoder> well and few other windows programs unrelated to cnc
[06:25:36] <mase-tech> I mean I already done nothing but I am just curious
[06:25:50] <mase-tech> of setup
[06:25:54] <XXCoder> calibre strip drm only works in windows. linux version cant strip drm
[06:26:05] <mase-tech> I thought we can do everything with linux cnc
[06:26:31] <XXCoder> everything with machines sure
[06:26:33] <mase-tech> if not wouldn't be easyier to us win with mach3 and the cam
[06:26:53] <XXCoder> cam creates programs to be ran on linuxcnc
[06:27:12] <mase-tech> mom u confused me
[06:27:39] <mase-tech> I construct something into freecad and export it to stl
[06:27:46] <mase-tech> and then to linuxcnc
[06:29:13] <XXCoder> linuxcnc supports stl?
[06:29:30] <mase-tech> it does not ?
[06:29:38] <archivist> no
[06:29:42] <mase-tech> crap
[06:30:02] <XXCoder> stl is just model, its definitely not gcode
[06:30:07] <archivist> machine controls generally expect gcode
[06:30:08] <mase-tech> does linuxcnc eat g code ?
[06:30:53] <mase-tech> ok so the cam export the "drawing" into g code"
[06:31:10] <XXCoder> you define what it needs to be done
[06:31:19] <XXCoder> say pocket that hole, do profile so on
[06:31:24] <XXCoder> it generates gcode
[06:31:24] <mase-tech> [freecad] -> [CAM] -> [linuxcnc] -> profit mucho
[06:31:38] <XXCoder> freecad has cam itself
[06:31:40] <XXCoder> it just sucks.,
[06:31:52] <mase-tech> So u know what we have to work on
[06:32:02] <mase-tech> does the freecad staff work on it ?
[06:32:13] <XXCoder> its slow going.
[06:32:26] <mase-tech> yeah cam is no shiny stuff
[06:32:43] <mase-tech> i think does not make lots of fun to work on it
[06:32:56] <XXCoder> trying to find real cheap dial test indictor for my machine lol
[06:36:23] <XXCoder> not bad http://www.aliexpress.com/item/500W-cnc-spindle-air-cooled-spindle-500w-52mm-clamps-power-supply-cnc-router-spindle-motor-500W/32414212130.html
[06:36:36] <XXCoder> just need a damned adoptor.
[06:43:08] <XXCoder> whaaa http://www.amazon.com/ACCURATE-ACCESSORIES-Special-Function-Indicator/dp/B00AYGGEYQ
[06:43:19] <XXCoder> "accurate" and it seem to have rust all over
[06:47:51] <skunkworks_> only 2 left!
[06:48:10] <XXCoder> yeah must have rusted away
[06:48:44] <XXCoder> "hurry, limited time, they dont last long in water!"
[06:50:17] <XXCoder> what do you guys think? too shitty? heh http://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-Quality-Dial-Test-Indicator-Precision-Metric-with-Dovetail-rails-0-0-8mm-32mm-New-Arrival/32659508738.html
[06:51:00] <skunkworks_> I have never used one of those style.. I like the plunger style with about 1" movement.
[06:51:23] <XXCoder> I have one of those. its simply too big for my machine
[06:51:30] <skunkworks_> ah
[06:52:23] * skunkworks_ doesn't know what that is like...
[06:52:27] <skunkworks_> ;)
[07:06:14] <skunkworks_> that spindle looks like one hard hit and the shaft would be broken or bent
[07:06:52] <XXCoder> it looks standard chinese spindle
[07:06:59] <XXCoder> so yeah probably
[07:09:30] <CaptHindsight> they just make up the power ratings
[07:09:38] <XXCoder> http://www.amazon.com/Konmison-Milling-Machine-Spindle-Converter/dp/B0154LEPSW closer view
[07:09:50] <CaptHindsight> there is no chart to back it up
[07:09:52] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: got suggestion on making adoptor plate?
[07:10:07] <CaptHindsight> adapting what?
[07:10:17] <XXCoder> my machine can only hold 43 mm
[07:10:20] <XXCoder> spindle
[07:10:33] <XXCoder> I want to be able to fit standard 52mm clamp on it
[07:11:30] <CaptHindsight> make your own or do you want to make a plate to adapt that to your router?
[07:11:43] <XXCoder> probably make my own
[07:12:21] <CaptHindsight> you could could that one in half
[07:13:14] <CaptHindsight> they already cut the one side
[07:13:29] <XXCoder> ?
[07:14:00] <XXCoder> cut what on side?
[07:14:24] <CaptHindsight> see the gap on the right side?
[07:14:33] <CaptHindsight> make another on the left
[07:14:47] <CaptHindsight> making the one part clamp into a 2 part clamp
[07:15:24] <CaptHindsight> re-drill and tap some new holes
[07:15:49] <XXCoder> http://g01.a.alicdn.com/kf/HTB17FBrIXXXXXbWXFXXq6xXFXXXk/Wood-Lathe-3040-Cnc-Router-Milling-Machine-with-43mm-bracket-Mechanical-Kit-Aluminium-Alloy-Frame-Ball.jpg
[07:15:58] <XXCoder> this is my stock cnc router design
[07:16:05] <XXCoder> cut is not on side but on front
[07:16:20] <XXCoder> I want to keep it for grinder and engraving, 27000 rpm is awesome for that,.
[07:16:48] <XXCoder> I'm just thinking design say 16 mm thick plate that bolts to that same z blocl
[07:16:52] <CaptHindsight> what size is the opening in your current spindle bracket? 43mm?
[07:17:00] <jthornton> ok blink works... so the uno is working I wonder why lcd is not working?
[07:17:07] <XXCoder> then it has tapped holes so 52 mm spindle can fit on it
[07:17:15] <XXCoder> yeah 43 mm
[07:18:03] <CaptHindsight> from the pic it looks like you could open that up to 52mm
[07:18:17] <XXCoder> it is hmm well kind of possible
[07:18:26] <XXCoder> the opening have to be forward a little
[07:18:34] <XXCoder> or spindle will hit Z support top
[07:18:55] <CaptHindsight> if it's going to be too thin then just machine a bigger bracket
[07:19:16] <XXCoder> I dont want to make one when theres plenty of premade ones
[07:19:29] <XXCoder> thats why i'm thinking adoptor plate
[07:20:42] <CaptHindsight> or that
[07:20:51] <CaptHindsight> so what's your question? :)
[07:21:05] <XXCoder> just figuring stuff out
[07:21:10] <XXCoder> check this early video
[07:21:12] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY7nXzcUI9M
[07:21:21] <XXCoder> you can see the clamp and Z design
[07:21:25] <CaptHindsight> going back to sleep
[07:21:33] <XXCoder> warning: loud
[07:22:44] <CaptHindsight> http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41O29lh5AqL._SX425_.jpg artisnal red oxide embellishment
[07:23:48] <XXCoder> HMMMM
[07:23:50] <XXCoder> AW-FSE 500
[07:24:01] <XXCoder> http://cnc-plus.de/en/Spindle-Motors---Spare-Parts/Milling-Spindle-Motors/Professional-AW-FSE-500-Milling-Spindle-Motor-with-500W.html
[07:24:07] <XXCoder> that may well solve my issue
[07:24:42] <XXCoder> hmm not quite, lowest rpm is 11,000 still quite fast
[07:57:59] <Polymorphism> http://www.designanything3d.com/cnc6040%20001.jpg
[08:14:29] <jdh> looks identical to mine
[08:20:36] <Polymorphism> does it have limit//home switches
[08:20:39] <Polymorphism> or support for them?
[08:20:50] <gregcnc> ??? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ0kn-G-vKQ
[08:20:52] <Polymorphism> and do I really need them?
[08:21:02] <Polymorphism> this is one aspect I'm still not clear about
[08:21:33] <Polymorphism> is this a fake hydraulic press channel?
[08:21:46] <gregcnc> they are multiplying
[08:21:58] <Polymorphism> lol
[08:24:17] <gregcnc> IMO with steppers limits are optional, but if you want to repeat position after power off, you want repeatable limit switches to home to
[08:24:19] <jdh> you don't need home/limit. I would have to do some minor soldering to add them to mine. the board has them
[08:24:56] <jdh> limit switches aren't so accurate as an absolute reference
[08:26:24] <gregcnc> preferably index on an ecoder
[08:26:58] <jdh> few stepper machines have encoders
[08:27:32] <Polymorphism> ok
[08:27:38] <Polymorphism> I wont worry too muych about limi///home on the machine then
[08:27:42] <gregcnc> so instead you touch off your work
[08:28:08] <jdh> why not. you worry tio much about everything
[08:28:19] <Polymorphism> well it sounds like they arent required
[08:28:28] <Polymorphism> and I'd be looking at the omio again and $1000 extra to get them
[08:28:31] <jdh> you touch off to work anyway
[08:28:54] <gregcnc> not if you home accurately
[08:29:00] <gregcnc> well anot always
[08:29:01] <jdh> maybe $15 for limits if you buy expensive ones
[08:29:03] * Polymorphism goes to look up touching off work
[08:29:13] <Polymorphism> jdh, you havwe the 6040 black box controller?
[08:29:18] <Polymorphism> and it has pins for limits if you wanted to add later
[08:29:22] <Polymorphism> ?
[08:29:25] <jdh> yes.
[08:29:27] <Polymorphism> ok
[08:29:33] <Polymorphism> I wont worry for now then
[08:29:50] <jdh> it has holes/traces for pins
[08:30:06] <jdh> why not. you worry about everything
[08:30:18] <Polymorphism> well this doesnt sound like a big deal
[08:30:21] <Polymorphism> and I can add them later
[08:30:30] <Polymorphism> so it's not like I'm locked into my decision
[08:30:49] <jdh> what decision
[08:31:07] <jdh> you are locked into indecision
[08:31:53] <Polymorphism> I learned a lot about cnc
[08:32:01] <Polymorphism> what my requirements are, what I need and don't need
[08:32:18] <Polymorphism> I'm just taking making some final decisions about required work area now
[08:32:35] <Polymorphism> taking measurements*
[08:33:07] <jdh> no you aren't
[09:19:46] <Polymorphism> how long is the average tool?
[09:20:11] <Polymorphism> the part that protrudes from the collet and effects max workpiece height
[09:20:13] <gregcnc> long enough
[09:20:15] <archivist> assume no average
[09:20:41] <Polymorphism> is there some sort of range?
[09:20:50] <gregcnc> ideally you pick a tool that is only long enough to do the work
[09:20:53] <archivist> two common sizes found are too short and too long
[09:20:56] <gregcnc> stub to XXL
[09:21:15] <Polymorphism> so I could select a bit that only sticks out 1/2" or so?
[09:21:25] <Polymorphism> I'm making sure the z clearance will work
[09:21:26] <archivist> the right amount!
[09:21:26] <gregcnc> maybe
[09:21:32] <Polymorphism> with workpiece + tool + spoilboard
[09:21:37] <archivist> http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-05-06
[09:22:34] <archivist> +fixture and clamping
[09:23:06] <Polymorphism> I was going to try to use double sided tape for enclosures
[09:23:08] <gregcnc> welcome to machining
[09:23:15] <Polymorphism> and for the end panels, screw them directly to the spoilboard
[09:23:39] <gregcnc> where nothing is certain, until you figure out it is and then maybe
[09:23:52] <archivist> I dont recommend sticky tape
[09:24:27] <Polymorphism> I'll look into alternative clamping options for the enclosures so I have options
[09:29:53] <Polymorphism> hard to find info about tool length
[09:30:02] <Polymorphism> I'm going to assume 1/2" to 1"
[09:30:13] <Polymorphism> should still have spare room
[09:30:19] <gregcnc> what do you mean any tool supplier has catlogs
[09:31:22] <Polymorphism> I'll check my catalog actually thats a good poijnt
[09:31:27] <Polymorphism> metalworking it came in the mail
[09:31:36] <Polymorphism> I just googled for "average cnc tool length" didnt work out
[09:32:04] <gregcnc> what about "assume no average" didn't make sense?
[09:33:00] <Polymorphism> I'll find some specific 2 flute aluminum mills for the job I want to do
[09:33:02] <Polymorphism> and check their length
[09:34:08] <Polymorphism> checking spoilboard thickness too
[09:34:19] <Polymorphism> george from xzero suggested I might even want to use some kind of plastic instead of mdf
[09:34:23] <Polymorphism> I forgot what it was he said, its at home depot
[09:35:06] <Polymorphism> HDPE mayber
[09:35:37] <Polymorphism> looks like 1/2" to 1" for the spoilboard
[09:35:57] <Polymorphism> I would go for thinner if I could
[09:36:07] <_methods> zlog
[09:36:11] <Polymorphism> or perhaps I shouldnt be thinking about covering the whole table with spoilboard
[09:36:26] <Polymorphism> I could put just a section of it where I want to mill end panels etc
[09:36:32] <Polymorphism> and then on the rest of the t-table keep it normal
[09:36:38] <Polymorphism> to clear taller enclosures
[09:36:43] <Polymorphism> assuming I can do that
[09:37:08] <Polymorphism> maybe haldf the table spoilboard half of it t-slot
[09:37:33] <Polymorphism> only downsize would be losing the full work area, but I likely won't need the whole work area
[09:37:45] <Polymorphism> I know about the log method
[09:37:53] <Polymorphism> its funny it actually comes up in half of my research on google now, heh
[09:37:56] <gregcnc> you have no machining experience so you can't know what will or won't work plenty of people have given you suggestions and you've probably looked at 1,000,000 videos and photos by now
[09:38:04] <gregcnc> buy something and start working and actually learning
[09:38:24] <Polymorphism> I'm about to
[09:38:31] <Polymorphism> I just need to be sure about z clearance
[09:38:36] <Polymorphism> now that I know the machine is rigid enough for my use
[09:38:42] <Polymorphism> and will work with linuxcnc
[09:38:58] <Polymorphism> and I know the work area is large enough for me
[09:39:02] <Polymorphism> its all come down to clearance now
[09:39:16] <Polymorphism> because for some reason I insist on being able to mill the top of pre-existing enclosures
[09:42:14] <Polymorphism> I ruled out the raptor because it will end up costing me too much. It's also much more robust than I need for 2mm alu routing, pcb, and woodwork. I'm ruling out omio because it's the same price as raptor and it is nicer than ebay 6040 but they changed the controller raised the price and its not being recommended by anyone I've talked to as it's now a gamble on the controller
[09:42:37] <Polymorphism> shapeoko has even more limited Z and doesn't look as robust as the 6040, especially that z drive
[09:42:51] <Polymorphism> although it is more supported, and I see people doing more with them
[09:43:03] <Polymorphism> other random options don't seem to make sense, or cost too much
[09:43:08] <Polymorphism> so I'm back where it all began
[09:43:12] <Polymorphism> the classic ebay 6040
[09:43:27] <Polymorphism> if the Z clearance meets my needs, It's a done deal
[09:43:36] <Polymorphism> finishing determining that now
[09:46:35] <Polymorphism> I do still have my eye on a 3d printer, the makergear M2 ($1800), up box($1900, and rostock v2 max kit ($1000) As well as the chinese laser cutter K40($240)
[09:46:56] <Polymorphism> 3d printed enclosures would be nice one step manufacturing, but not a professional end result, no ability to make pcb, only works with plastics
[09:47:17] <Polymorphism> also offgassing concerns from the print head + the materials
[09:47:36] <Polymorphism> similar concerns with the laser cutter for the fumes, it is the lowest cost of all and can cut very clean lines
[09:47:44] <Polymorphism> acrylic, wood, but they lend themselves a certain aesthetic to the design
[09:47:47] <Polymorphism> due to cutting from sheet
[09:47:50] <Polymorphism> would have to use t-slot
[09:47:59] <Polymorphism> can get some very nice engraving
[09:48:13] <Polymorphism> it's so low cost though it would be better added as a 2nd tool later I think
[09:48:23] <Polymorphism> it's definitely nowhere near as versatile as the cnc would be
[09:48:28] <Polymorphism> so this is where my decision stands now
[09:48:39] <Polymorphism> off to do more research, will return later
[09:48:52] <Polymorphism> thanks again to all who have assisted me in this difficult decision thus far
[09:49:07] <archivist> IRC is not the right place to write a book on indecision
[09:50:38] <tiwake> at all
[09:52:08] <_methods> hehe so nice not seeing that clowns stupid questions
[09:52:13] <_methods> ignore is your friend
[09:52:59] <skunkworks_> who said that?
[09:54:59] <_methods> hehe
[09:55:05] <gregcnc> which dealer won't sell him a machine for fear of tying up their support for months?
[09:56:22] <gregcnc> chicago news had a bit about how someone hadn't received their coolest cooler in two years
[09:56:35] <_methods> he's like the worst case scenario
[09:56:39] <_methods> he/she
[09:56:48] <_methods> guessing transgender
[09:57:01] <gregcnc> that indecisive?
[09:57:17] <_methods> fo sho
[09:57:39] <sdohtem_> something to say to me _methods ?
[09:57:50] <sdohtem_> don't hide if you want to talk =D
[09:57:54] <Encapsulation> I'm right here bro
[09:57:57] <gregcnc> you'll be banned soon
[09:57:57] <Encapsulation> lets do this
[09:58:08] <Polymorphism> he has 5 more vps I think...
[09:58:11] <Polymorphism> seems unlikely
[09:58:24] <Encapsulation> thats what I thought _methods
[09:58:27] <Encapsulation> keep your mouth shut you little bitch
[09:58:47] <Polymorphism> like they say, if you have nothing positive to say, don't say anything at all =DS
[09:58:53] <Polymorphism> amiright or what
[10:01:06] <Polymorphism> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ng9LCBZK89g
[10:01:10] <Polymorphism> not a bad looking result really
[10:01:21] <Polymorphism> I need to look into adjusting for variations in Z height on the workpiece
[10:01:27] <Polymorphism> I've read thats critical for clean PCB milling
[10:01:38] <Polymorphism> I'm sure proper fixturing is the best first step
[10:01:50] <Polymorphism> but from what I understand errors can be corrected by then probing height across the surface
[10:03:31] <Polymorphism> I think Loetmichel 's work alone may be the argument for 6040's adequacy
[10:03:34] <maxcnc> hi all
[10:03:36] <Polymorphism> hello
[10:03:42] <Polymorphism> welcome to #linuxcnc
[10:03:43] <maxcnc> rain and storm here in Germany
[10:03:47] <Polymorphism> clear skies here
[10:03:48] <Polymorphism> and sun
[10:03:54] <Polymorphism> 80f
[10:04:01] <Polymorphism> 27c
[10:04:05] <Polymorphism> =D
[10:04:11] <mase-tech> HI Everybody
[10:04:15] <Polymorphism> sup mase
[10:04:39] <Polymorphism> you ever get that microstepping issue figured out mase-tech
[10:04:44] <maxcnc> poly you are realy the one that needs help with a 5kg hammer
[10:05:08] <Polymorphism> excuse me?
[10:05:09] <maxcnc> mase-tech: today the new cnc arrived in the FH
[10:05:18] <Polymorphism> bring your hammer =)
[10:05:58] <maxcnc> now we have 2 5axis hammering education ones here in ZW
[10:06:06] <Polymorphism> xD
[10:06:21] <mase-tech> :D
[10:06:35] <Polymorphism> xD
[10:06:39] <Polymorphism> classic
[10:06:56] <Polymorphism> all squared up
[10:07:03] <mase-tech> This is nice
[10:07:43] <Polymorphism> yes
[10:07:50] <gregcnc> mase-tech the silence?
[10:07:53] <mase-tech> But would be also nice to develep cnc in FH
[10:08:25] <mase-tech> maxcnc is my former prof I need to behave :D
[10:08:39] <Polymorphism> xD
[10:08:58] <mase-tech> We should have more projects for students at fh
[10:09:20] <mase-tech> something like 3d printers and cnc machines would be great
[10:09:31] <mase-tech> But the budget is low ?
[10:12:09] <mase-tech> gregcnc: Am I not silent ? :)
[10:13:02] <mase-tech> Polymorphism: I try to solve all problems immediatly
[10:13:08] <maxcnc> mase-tech: there is a freesculpter2 on perl for less then 300 that is a amazing offer
[10:13:30] <maxcnc> off till later ;-)
[10:15:07] <mase-tech> so I have time for something else
[10:15:34] <Polymorphism> that makes sense
[10:15:41] <Polymorphism> I wish I could do the same
[10:18:03] <mase-tech> consider murphys law with the value of your decicion -> conclude it cannt be perfect -> do it to get 100% knowlegde
[10:20:32] * Polymorphism contemplates
[10:21:15] <_methods> i think Jymmm already kicked him once
[10:21:30] <_methods> maybe he'll ban him for a couple weeks this time
[10:22:16] <Polymorphism> what percent of your time here would you say is spent trolling _methods ?
[10:22:31] <Polymorphism> 75? 80?
[10:23:26] <Polymorphism> oh thats right, you're afraid of a response so you ignored me
[10:23:28] <Polymorphism> =D
[10:23:33] <Polymorphism> what a coward
[10:23:35] <Polymorphism> and a troll
[10:23:46] <Polymorphism> if anything I'd say hopefully jym will ban _methods
[10:23:49] <Polymorphism> or at least a warning
[10:24:28] <Polymorphism> from day 1 hes done nothing but criticize and insult, with no real insight or advice provided
[10:24:31] <Polymorphism> and no discussion engaged in
[10:24:37] <Polymorphism> shameful, really
[10:26:03] <archivist> poly please stop spamming the channel
[10:26:48] <Polymorphism> using transgender as an insult also proves he's an uneducated, low-class, bigot
[10:26:53] <Polymorphism> =D
[10:28:17] <Polymorphism> It would be nice if people could stick to the topic of CNC, and keep comments relevant to that discussion
[10:30:22] <Polymorphism> the constant degradation to ad hominem attacks by _methods and those like him brings shame to this channel, and to CNC industry as a whole
[10:32:37] <archivist> will you please stop spamming the channel
[10:34:45] <enleth> Polymorphism: while I do not approve of the way some people here chose their insults, I do agree that you are throwing waves upon waves of messages here, out of proportion with anything anyone else is doing, and people complaining about this have a valid point, so stop it.
[10:35:22] <enleth> Polymorphism: you brought all the hostility upon yourself, as inappropriate in its form it might be.
[10:36:04] <Polymorphism> enleth, I have no ill intentions with my messages though. Unlike some of those who respond to me
[10:36:43] <Polymorphism> I cannot agree I brought it upon myself. All I've done is ask questions and engage in discussion as I try to move toward purchasing my first CNC machine
[10:36:46] <enleth> Polymorphism: but you were clearly informed that, ill intentions or not, you are causing trouble.
[10:37:03] <enleth> Polymorphism: the way you are doing that is a problem.
[10:37:24] <enleth> Polymorphism: I am absolutely sure you are aware of why exactly people are mad at you.
[10:37:42] <Polymorphism> enleth, I only see a couple of people lobbing insults
[10:37:48] <Polymorphism> most have been quite polite and helpful
[10:37:54] <Polymorphism> and I've learned immense amounts here
[10:37:57] <enleth> Polymorphism: perhaps you chose not no see when people were warning you politely.
[10:38:01] <enleth> They were.
[10:38:07] <enleth> *not to
[10:38:47] <Polymorphism> enleth, I'll consider what you've said. I reiterate it's not my intention to cause any trouble.
[10:39:07] <enleth> But you kept on posting absolutely riddiculous amounts of messages.
[10:39:27] <DaViruz> under several names, for whatever reason
[10:39:39] <enleth> Polymorphism: please note that many people here ask about things and somehow no one has problems with them.
[10:40:07] <Polymorphism> If people don't like my personality, that's beyond my control. My intentions are good though.
[10:40:23] <Polymorphism> Many people make decisions more casually than I do, I've always tried to make sure I make the perfect choice the first time
[10:40:29] <enleth> Polymorphism: I disagree.
[10:41:03] <enleth> Polymorphism: when you first came, you were just another person coming here for help, so by defauly you were being treated decently, having given no reason to do otherwise.
[10:41:42] <enleth> Polymorphism: but you ignored/disregarded/did not understand when people started telling you to change the way you are interacting with others here.
[10:42:11] <Polymorphism> Change who I am as a person? That doesn't sound like a reasonable request to me.
[10:42:40] <enleth> Polymorphism: the fact that you can't do decisions casually is not the fault of anyone here, but we're all being forcibly treated to the effects of this you're constantly producing.
[10:42:45] <enleth> Polymorphism: how is that fair?
[10:42:55] <DaViruz> wow, what a comment
[10:43:08] <FinboySlick> I don't think people care too much about your personality. From what I read so far, they're annoyed from a practical perspective, as enleth just pointed out.
[10:43:14] <DaViruz> "i can do whatever i please, because it is unreasonable to ask me to change my personality"
[10:43:18] <DaViruz> good luck with life
[10:43:38] <Polymorphism> thats odd, I don't recall saying that
[10:43:44] <Polymorphism> <Polymorphism> Change who I am as a person? That doesn't sound like a reasonable request to me.
[10:43:46] <Polymorphism> I think thats what I said
[10:43:53] <Polymorphism> actually, I'm quite certain.
[10:43:59] <Polymorphism> Please don't put words into my mouth
[10:44:08] <enleth> Polymorphism: if you can't change as a person and therefore must keep doing what you're doing, then I could claim that I can't stand people who talk a lot and that's how I am, I can't change that. Would that justify me being mean to you?
[10:44:18] <Polymorphism> enleth, today I asked a reasonable question and was gretting with trolling
[10:44:21] <enleth> Polymorphism: certainly not.
[10:44:27] <Polymorphism> I think you need to take a step back and examine the situation
[10:44:34] <Polymorphism> certain users decided they would make it their goal to troll me
[10:44:40] <Polymorphism> no matter what I say
[10:44:45] <enleth> Polymorphism: perhaps you need to take a step back and examine what lead to it.
[10:45:14] <mase-tech> Polymorphism: You get trolled, because u always say the same things.
[10:45:37] <FinboySlick> You don't have to change who you are as a person. Just be aware of what annoys people and make a simple, practical choice: 1- keep doing what annoys them and deal with their reaction. 2- stop doing it and deal with whatever effort that requires of you.
[10:45:46] <DaViruz> Polymorphism: that's exactly what you said, in a more compact form
[10:46:03] <enleth> Polymorphism: you decided to post horrible amounts of stuff here no matter what people said, so people decided to troll you no matter what you say. As simple as that.
[10:46:36] <Polymorphism> I'm glad we are in agreement that people are trolling me because their don't approve of my personality, decision making style, or number of questions asked to reach said decision
[10:46:39] <Polymorphism> they*
[10:46:46] <enleth> Polymorphism: no.
[10:46:55] <enleth> Polymorphism: they do not approve of what you *do*
[10:46:59] <enleth> As simple as that.
[10:47:11] <enleth> They couldn't care less as to what kind of person you are.
[10:47:21] <FinboySlick> Correct.
[10:47:31] <DaViruz> very
[10:48:00] <mase-tech> Holy moly linuxcnc is better than ophra
[10:48:02] <enleth> But you and only you are responsible for your *actions* and you must realize that people will hold you responsible if you fail to comply after WEEKS of being asked to alter what you *do*
[10:48:38] <Polymorphism> I think it just clicked for me
[10:48:40] <enleth> Polymorphism: I'd be also glad if you cared to comment on my idea of not being able to change as a person being a justificaton for being mean.
[10:48:43] <mase-tech> If he is transgender maybe he is looking for acception
[10:48:47] <enleth> mase-tech: drop that
[10:48:49] <Polymorphism> people are expecting me to do something unreasonable
[10:48:58] <Polymorphism> that I'm not able to do
[10:49:02] <_methods> hahah
[10:49:03] <DaViruz> wow
[10:49:23] <Polymorphism> mase-tech, why bring the bigoted stuff back into this?
[10:49:34] <DaViruz> stop asking the exact same question over and over and over and over again under different names
[10:49:36] <enleth> mase-tech: you're not any better if you go down that road
[10:49:37] <DaViruz> that is not unreasonable
[10:50:02] <Polymorphism> I think part of the problem is certain people keep saying I'm asking the same question
[10:50:05] <enleth> Polymorphism: I really insist that you relate to what I said about not being able to change.
[10:50:07] <Polymorphism> but I'm asking different questions
[10:50:22] <Polymorphism> enleth, let me see
[10:50:25] <Polymorphism> I must have missed it
[10:50:25] <DaViruz> Polymorphism: you admitted to it just a few days ago
[10:50:40] <Polymorphism> enleth, I'm not being mean though
[10:50:52] <Polymorphism> and if someone came across as mean becausew thats just how they were, but they didnt intend it
[10:50:55] <Polymorphism> I wouldnt hold it against them
[10:50:56] <DaViruz> you said you were collecting answers for a statistical analysis
[10:51:22] <Polymorphism> I forget the context, I may have wanted a 2nd opinion on something
[10:51:31] <Polymorphism> I don't want to call a question answered based on just one response
[10:51:38] <Polymorphism> especially when that person later turns out to be a closed-minded troll
[10:51:40] <enleth> Polymorphism: that's very kind of you, but this type of reasoning can be used to justify anything. This is why people do not approve of it.
[10:52:16] <Polymorphism> I'm not trying to justify anything
[10:52:27] <mase-tech> You do
[10:52:42] <Polymorphism> I also dislike arguing with you because I don't think we are going to come to an agreement enleth and you seem quite reasonable.
[10:52:50] <enleth> Polymorphism: also, you are contradicting yourself. Maybe those "trolls" are mean because that's how they are? You were holding that against them just now.
[10:53:13] <mase-tech> 1 0 enleth
[10:53:20] <Polymorphism> I don't want to name names, I really only see 3 people in here who are outright trolls
[10:53:29] <Polymorphism> the rest are quite reasonable and the help they have given me has been invaluable
[10:53:57] <FinboySlick> This is the Internet. It's full of mean people.
[10:54:29] <FinboySlick> Thankfully, these people can be turned off easily by disconnecting your Internet.
[10:54:32] <enleth> Polymorphism: I dislike switching to this channel and seeing a wall of text you wrote, most of which is just a stream of your thoughts, with very low density of useful or interesting information.
[10:55:04] <enleth> Polymorphism: whose disliking of something is more important, mine or yours?
[10:55:10] <Polymorphism> enleth, the hope was that someone would see the difficulty of my decision between those 3 machines, have been in a similar situation, and provide guidance
[10:55:20] <enleth> Someone?
[10:55:25] <enleth> Everyone has seen it already.
[10:55:30] <mase-tech> ;DD
[10:55:35] <Polymorphism> its an IRC channel, people come and go
[10:55:51] <enleth> The problem is, many people stay.
[10:55:56] <enleth> And they grow tired.
[10:56:04] <enleth> Of seeing those walls of text over and over.
[10:56:05] <SpeedEvil> Or are ops, and they ban you
[10:56:13] <enleth> This impedes other discussion.
[10:56:21] <archivist> and we see one trying to dominate the channel with his own problems
[10:56:41] <SpeedEvil> The role of op is not only to keep out explicit trolls and spammers.
[10:56:41] <Polymorphism> nobody was even discussing anything when I sent the last wall, but I do see where you're coming from if they were
[10:56:51] <SpeedEvil> It's also to curate the channel so that it remains interesting.
[10:56:59] <DaViruz> i don't think i have ever seen anyone banned from this channel though
[10:57:56] <enleth> Polymorphism: it's no longer about the last one. It's about all of them since you came. Because most of people sitting here are actually long term members.
[10:58:36] <archivist> DaViruz, have been a few
[10:59:00] <Polymorphism> It's not like I haven't learned anything or made any progress toward the decision though, enleth. I've learned about rigidty, software, tooling, workpiece fixturing, rail systems, etc
[10:59:19] <Polymorphism> today my questions were about clearance with combined workpiece height tool length and spoilboard, because this is the final factor holding me back
[10:59:25] <mase-tech> The day Polymorphism has a cnc is a day of relief
[10:59:27] <Polymorphism> I actually am almost to a decision
[10:59:33] <Polymorphism> that day is coming very soon
[10:59:52] <enleth> Polymorphism: yes, you learned much. But at what cost to others?
[10:59:55] <Polymorphism> I can't wait to start making chips, to be honest
[10:59:58] <gregcnc> while I don't see what's being said i've been through this with my mother in law. she causes problems and thinks everything is fine, but it's OK because any method to get what she wants is acceptable for her no matter what it cost anyone around her
[11:00:25] <Polymorphism> enleth, it wasn't my intent to "cost" anyone anything. I've just asked questions and discussed CNC
[11:00:28] <mase-tech> It is time for milk
[11:00:35] <mase-tech> and then cereals
[11:00:46] <Polymorphism> I think I'll have a beer after this
[11:01:17] <enleth> Polymorphism: the amount of time of other people you directly (people answering you) or indirectly (people wading through your messages and answers to them) consumed in the process is disproportionately bigger than anyone elses's here in the last year or so. Can't say about anything earlier, I haven't been here then.
[11:01:33] <mase-tech> Polymorphism: I hope you don t have to decide which beer :D
[11:01:43] <Polymorphism> mase-tech, easy choice, coors lite =D
[11:01:48] <Polymorphism> (what's in the fridge)
[11:02:19] <enleth> Polymorphism: rephrasing it: per a volume of one person's problems that need solving, yours take an absurdly higher amount of effort of #linuxcnc regulars to solve than anyone else's
[11:02:44] <enleth> Polymorphism: and this is what drove people irritated at first, outright mad and hostile later
[11:03:01] <Polymorphism> enleth, are you saying there is a rule against this, or just explaining the hostility
[11:03:01] <mase-tech> enleth: your arguments are very got and reasonable
[11:03:08] <Polymorphism> mase-tech, I agree
[11:03:57] <mase-tech> Polymorphism: you should buy a cnc and make a nice post in linux which the community deserves
[11:03:58] <DaViruz> the hard rules are extremely few. most people just share a sense of what's acceptable
[11:04:28] <enleth> Polymorphism: there might not be a written rule, but somehow this comes across to me as natural that this would be a problem, and from what I know about social interactions, I guess it would feel that way to most people too
[11:05:14] <Polymorphism> mase-tech, I will absolutely make a post documenting my results the decision process and the machine
[11:05:57] <mase-tech> We ll see, but if your nice you have to giving something back.
[11:06:56] <Polymorphism> I will take what I've learned and pass it on to anyone in a similar situation as me, thats been my plan
[11:07:11] <mase-tech> I got lots of useful inforamtion in this channel which I am thankful
[11:07:53] <Polymorphism> enleth, You've made some really good points. I'll consider what you've said. I can't make guarantees but I can certainly try to keep my thought process more internalized and stick to more specific questions
[11:08:12] <enleth> That might be a good start.
[11:09:50] <FinboySlick> Another thing to keep in mind: It's frustrating to imagine that someone in here has the answer you're looking for, but the reality is that nobody owes that answer to you. The energy they spend to formulate it is entirely theirs to give or not.
[11:15:55] <Jymmm> Should Polymorphism be banned? you may pm your vote.
[11:16:45] <_methods> lol
[11:17:24] <cradek> :-/
[11:19:27] <DaViruz> i don't think so, although he is slightly annoying and somewhat entitled he has been very civil
[11:24:08] <enleth> Jymmm: I'd give him some more time, looks like no one actually told him in plain terms what the problem is and, as unbelievable as it may seem, he might have not actually been aware.
[11:25:59] <cradek> voting on bans is a thing not to do. if it's that unclear, a ban is inappropriate.
[11:26:42] <enleth> Agreed.
[11:27:12] <cradek> and I agree with saying what the problem is in plain terms and assuming good faith until proved otherwise
[11:27:34] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: hmmm. is there an english version of this? https://schmackebatz.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/formular2.jpg that would be fitting for him
[11:27:41] <DaViruz> besides, in a situation like that only people with the strongest opinions are likely to vote, which would be pretty unfair
[11:28:03] <Jymmm> cradek: Not necessarily. It's the group as a whole placing their viewpoint on what it excessively disruptive or not.
[11:28:30] <enleth> Jymmm: what DaViruz just said
[11:28:41] <DaViruz> in that case it needs a majority vote with regard to number of people in the channel, not the number of votes
[11:29:08] <Jymmm> enleth: Everyone can choose if they speak up on not, everyone is an adult.
[11:29:30] <DaViruz> so what's the timeframe?
[11:29:33] <cradek> let's move on and not do this
[11:29:35] <enleth> Jymmm: we both know that's not exactly how people work in social situations.
[11:30:15] <_methods> so how many more months is he allowed to carry on asking the same things over and over?
[11:30:16] <DaViruz> let's vote on whether to vote on bans
[11:30:24] <_methods> just to be clear
[11:30:57] <enleth> _methods: I'd say look up the rule on how many consecutive messages can be posted and use the same number.
[11:31:00] <enleth> Oh, wait.
[11:31:50] <Jymmm> enleth: more than three is flooding as an unwritten irc rule.
[11:32:08] <_methods> i honestly don't care since i have most of his nic's ignored anyways and don't see any of it
[11:32:36] <enleth> Jymmm: that's an interesting number. I'm pretty sure it's being broken all the time during regular conversation, with remarks and such.
[11:40:46] <Nick001-shop> Is there a working Pncconf for 2.7.4
[11:42:51] <archivist> for what definition of working, I thought it is in all 2.7
[11:44:13] <Nick001-shop> I cant get test/tune axis to work - comes up with an error screen
[11:44:44] <archivist> ask about the error then
[11:50:05] <Nick001-shop> back after I set uo dropbox
[11:50:18] <Nick001-shop> uo/up
[11:50:49] <archivist> use a pastebin drop box is a bit useless
[11:51:02] <gregcnc> I tuned in linuxcnc, not PNCCONF. I use axis but maybe all gui have machine->calibration in the menus
[12:01:23] <Nick001-shop> Here is a pic of the error message https://www.dropbox.com/s/a95eggssokq8ll8/Error-1.png?dl=0
[12:04:53] <pcw_home> pretty sure closed loop tuning does not work on pncconf, use calibrate instead
[12:21:52] <maxcnc> hi all
[12:22:18] <maxcnc> terrible news just in
[12:23:04] <maxcnc> Our good old CNC supplier has passed away
[12:23:23] <maxcnc> you may know him also as i always supported his shop
[12:23:39] <maxcnc> konrad langendeld alias pro-tos
[12:24:10] <maxcnc> what a loss to our counity here in germany
[12:24:43] <maxcnc> the shop will be open as his wife told me in the past hours
[12:25:35] <maxcnc> he had cancer acording to the mails i recived today to confirm the dead
[12:25:45] <maxcnc> R.I.P
[12:30:48] <membiblio> greetings on thursday afternoon
[12:31:06] <maxcnc> long wekend ahead here in germany
[12:31:18] <maxcnc> but its getting colder
[12:31:57] <CaptHindsight> _methods: same here
[12:32:28] <membiblio> if we have a linuxcnc gcode program to route out a shape and we want to route out (on a mill) the whole area - do we do that in autocad/libre cad or in the gcode converter such as dxf to gcode?
[12:32:31] <CaptHindsight> but here's some fresh hammers for anyone that enjoys it rrrrrrrrrr
[12:34:07] <CaptHindsight> membiblio: what are you asking?
[12:34:23] <archivist> asking to clear an area
[12:34:34] <archivist> not just the outline
[12:34:39] <CaptHindsight> outline vs
[12:34:58] <maxcnc> membiblio: you an use Heekscad on this
[12:34:59] <CaptHindsight> you're a much better mind reader than I
[12:35:54] <maxcnc> membiblio: if you use the free Autodesk Fusion360 this will also do the job
[12:36:31] <maxcnc> membiblio: if you upload the dxf people here will give you the g-code back
[12:36:51] <maxcnc> tool mesurments needed on this
[12:36:52] <membiblio> I use dxf to gcode so aok on gcode
[12:37:15] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: you should compile all of it's posts into a children's book for insomniacs
[12:37:33] <archivist> CaptHindsight, must put a mind reader up on kickstarter
[12:37:35] <membiblio> So here is the scenario - I have a little piece of acrylic that the center needs to be higher (to go through a hole) and the outsides need to be lower.
[12:38:13] <maxcnc> makt the 2 shapes and give it a area pocketing
[12:38:47] <membiblio> We designed the piece in autocad and ran through dxf to gcode - we get two cuts - the outside of the piece and the inside - the intermediate area also needs to be milled down - so - in autocad doing a spiral - or is this a function of the gcode generator?
[12:39:23] <maxcnc> gcode generator
[12:39:44] <membiblio> maxcnc and what is that feature called - is it in dxf2gcode?
[12:39:51] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: I think all of the loggers on here already have
[12:40:21] <maxcnc> im not working with dxf2gxode sorry
[12:40:57] <membiblio> it is ok I understand - are you working with a open source alternative or a commercial product?
[12:41:17] <maxcnc> Heekscad is open to ubuntu
[12:41:43] <membiblio> Is heekscad better than librecad?
[12:41:59] <maxcnc> https://launchpad.net/~neomilium/+archive/ubuntu/heekscnc-devel
[12:42:16] <maxcnc> use only the cnc cam module that comes with
[12:42:29] <maxcnc> do dxf via autocad or qcad
[12:43:00] <maxcnc> freecad will give you better 3D shapes
[12:43:51] <membiblio> maxcnc - is that what we are looking for 'pocketing' ?
[12:44:01] <maxcnc> yes
[12:44:22] <membiblio> thank you - let me go tell the cam guy so he can look for that.
[12:44:33] <maxcnc> NP
[12:57:31] <maxcnc> membiblio: still on ?
[12:59:17] <membiblio> maxcnc I am
[13:02:29] <maxcnc> membiblio: http://foengarage.de/insel.jpg
[13:03:08] <maxcnc> just a shot
[13:04:29] <Nick001-shop> <PCW> Having trouble matching up terms JT is using on his tutorial with terms available on the dropdown list on calibrate. Just got back from lunch
[13:06:16] <maxcnc> http://heimwerkermarkt-tretter.de/tischbein.mp4 tomorrow im gone makle 30 of this
[13:06:43] <Nick001-shop> The terms in question halscope plot of ferror ," pid output, commanded and real velocity" triggering on commanded velocity.
[13:07:38] <FinboySlick> gregcnc: I think your mother in law's office is right next to mine.
[13:08:21] <maxcnc> ok im done for today Gn8 from germany
[13:08:50] <zeeshan> bought two china precision drill chucks
[13:08:53] <zeeshan> far from fucking precision
[13:08:54] <zeeshan> lol
[13:09:03] <zeeshan> 15 thou runout on one and 12 thou on the other
[13:09:10] <zeeshan> going right back where they came from :P
[13:09:12] <FinboySlick> zeeshan: You should see the inspection sheet on my mill :P
[13:09:17] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/331840352569
[13:09:21] <zeeshan> i bought two pairs of these now
[13:09:27] <zeeshan> people have said those runout numbers are true
[13:09:35] <zeeshan> and on the overestimate side
[13:09:35] <zeeshan> lets see..
[13:09:39] <zeeshan> FinboySlick: haha
[13:10:25] <FinboySlick> I know that somewhere in china, there's a liar named Chen.
[13:10:36] <zeeshan> ROFL
[13:10:38] <zeeshan> lets track him down!
[13:11:00] <zeeshan> i hope these chucks work out
[13:11:13] <zeeshan> the local places want double what i paid for these
[13:11:18] <zeeshan> for some china brand also
[13:11:35] <FinboySlick> zeeshan: What are the jaws like? Maybe you can grind them.
[13:11:53] <zeeshan> if this one doesnt work out, ill try
[13:11:58] <zeeshan> but thats an excellent idea..
[13:12:03] <zeeshan> prolly not hard to do either
[13:12:39] <zeeshan> the thing is i got turned off right away when i spun it
[13:12:45] <zeeshan> and i could see it wobbling like crazy
[13:13:02] <zeeshan> i thought it was my jt6 arbor holders.. i tested them, they run out 0.0002
[13:13:02] <archivist> when I last got cheap chucks was at a model engineer do, I selected before purchase
[13:13:22] <zeeshan> then i put a 5/16 broken end mill and measured the run out in a er32 collet, i was getting 0.001
[13:13:39] <FinboySlick> I just pictured a perfectly centered drill bit in a super-wobbly chuck. "The runout is fine, it's just the chuck that's 1/4" off center."
[13:13:40] <zeeshan> then i tightened the chuck upside down onto the 5/16 end mill shank
[13:13:46] <zeeshan> and measured the jt6 taper on both the drill chucks
[13:13:50] <zeeshan> thats how im getting my numbers
[13:16:20] <archivist> some of the ER chucks are a wobble short of a mile out
[13:16:24] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2YNTMsxmxo
[13:16:26] <zeeshan> YAY
[13:16:28] <zeeshan> similar style chuck
[13:16:30] <zeeshan> thats no run out!
[13:16:39] <zeeshan> archivist: luckily i havent run into that
[13:17:14] <FinboySlick> zeeshan: It's not the chuck that's wobbly, it's the camera.
[13:17:19] <zeeshan> hahaha
[13:17:28] <zeeshan> its your eyes!
[13:17:30] <zeeshan> and my eyes!
[13:18:40] <archivist> and so low res you cannot see the dial sensitivity
[13:22:32] <zeeshan> archivist: lol
[13:27:09] <zeeshan> man i really love the way this chuck looks!
[13:27:16] <zeeshan> the square grip looks bad ass
[13:27:32] <zeeshan> I HOPE its function is as good as it looks!
[13:27:50] <Jymmm> I've been drilling 1/8" glass at around 3600 RPM and I get okey results. Would there be any benefit in different speed, say like 18K rpm range?
[13:46:03] <dr0w> what diameter is the bit?
[13:49:56] <Jymmm> dr0w: 1/4" (max)
[13:50:15] <Jymmm> dr0w: "arrowhead" style is what I've been using
[13:51:21] <cradek> arrowhead what?
[13:51:43] <cradek> I have cut quite a bit of glass with diamond burrs, under running water
[13:51:51] <cradek> it cuts nice
[13:52:07] <Jymmm> cradek: Arrowhead is the bit style... http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/513FeqJVijL._SY355_.jpg
[13:52:23] <cradek> huh carbide?
[13:52:42] <cradek> I didn't know that would work
[13:53:35] <cradek> you're just cutting holes? they make tools just for that (diamond cylinders that cut a circle, not a hole)
[13:53:41] <Jymmm> They do EXCELLENT in stone, kinda rough results in glass though.
[13:53:58] <cradek> yeah, wrong tool I think
[13:54:00] <Jymmm> I did JSUT find these though and better reviews.... http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-GT2000-Glass-Tile-4-Piece/dp/B001GNC8RI/
[13:54:33] <cradek> well those say max 2000 rpm
[13:54:58] <zeeshan> Jymmm: why are you making holes in glass :)
[13:55:01] <Jymmm> where do you see that?
[13:55:06] <cradek> http://www.amazon.com/Neiko®-00823A-Diamond-Coating-5-Piece/dp/B00ODSS5NO/
[13:55:16] <cradek> these look like bad quality but they're made for the task
[13:55:20] <cradek> on the shanks
[13:55:59] <Jymmm> ah ok
[13:56:03] <zeeshan> Tom_shop: http://i.imgur.com/fWAh4rw.png
[13:56:06] <zeeshan> ^ need a lathe
[13:56:11] <zeeshan> im having to pull this kind of crap lol
[13:56:14] <cradek> you're doing it underwater, right?
[13:56:16] <zeeshan> waste of material.
[13:57:01] <Jymmm> cradek: Kinda, I use a wet towel to surround where the hole will be, works well and collects the dust too
[13:57:33] <Jymmm> paper towel that is
[13:58:05] <cradek> for those holecutting bits you make a moat out of clay or similar, and fill it with water
[13:58:47] <cradek> if you want a perfect hole, cut from both sides and meet in the middle
[13:59:10] <djdelorie> cradek: is there some trick to aligning the holes? Or just the usual edge-finder stuff?
[13:59:30] * cradek shrugs
[14:00:00] <cradek> you'd have to use the appropriate skills in the appropriate way :-)
[14:00:19] <Jymmm> cradek: Eh, it's mostly cleaning edge I wanted, but I have diamond burss that will make it baby finger smooth, was just tyring to save an added step if possible.
[14:00:44] <FinboySlick> zeeshan: Are you saying Pete's condition is contagious?
[14:01:13] <FinboySlick> You caught the lateless. Quarantine!
[14:01:26] <zeeshan|2> lol
[14:07:30] <Jymmm> cradek: Bosch glass/tile bits https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L97cHQP4HUc
[14:32:37] <_methods> Jymmm: i knew you liked glassholes
[14:33:22] <Jymmm> _methods: blow it out your hole!
[14:33:26] <_methods> haha
[14:33:54] <_methods> glass holes are always a problem
[14:43:31] <Jymmm> _methods: Yes, yes you are.
[14:45:40] <Jymmm> _methods: But, you're "special"
[14:55:07] <_methods> hahah
[14:55:15] <_methods> thx.........i think
[14:59:12] <Jymmm> _methods: See, there ya go again... thinking that you can think <rolls eyes>, it's what makes you "special" though ;)
[15:04:16] <_methods> says the guy trying to drill holes thru glass with ancient indian arrow heads
[15:04:50] <Jymmm> s/trying/sucessfully/
[15:05:19] <Jymmm> I just want a better finish is all, one less finishing process to deal with.
[15:10:05] <_methods> they use diamond i guess they're end mills on the cnc's at the glass place i used to do work for
[15:10:18] <_methods> diamond pcd burrs
[15:10:22] <_methods> and diamond hole saw
[15:10:40] <_methods> i think they're prohibitively expensive for hobby stuff though
[15:10:47] <_methods> s/pcd/pcb
[15:11:04] <_methods> nevermind pcd is right
[15:22:13] * Loetmichel dumb. had a bit of a problem at the company lately... server was unreliable to say the least. Turns out to be a slight misconfig in the new router. Configured it to do dhcp n x.x.x.200 to x.x.x.250... and the server has x.x.x.241... one of the Wifi Door IP cams took the .241 and the trouble started. i checked every other device... just forgot the two cams that hang at the entrances
[15:22:13] * Loetmichel for the last 4 years... thats what you get when the Design engineer/production manager / "facility manager" / electrican of the company gets the IT admin hat to wear on top of his "regular dutys" ;)
[15:57:05] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: diamond hole saws at Zoro are cheap, think they go down to 1/4"
[15:58:13] <CaptHindsight> http://www.amazon.com/LOT-Diamond-Hole-Drill-10mm/dp/B00S2WKQAC hole set for $6.57 :)
[16:03:56] <CaptHindsight> http://www.amazon.com/Neiko®-00823A-Diamond-Coating-5-Piece/dp/B00ODSS5NO
[16:04:52] <CaptHindsight> I drill with them with water flood or use putty to build a pool around the hole to hold water
[16:22:46] <XXCoder> lol
[16:22:47] <XXCoder> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1094489804/formbox-a-desktop-vacuum-former-that-makes-beautif?ref=category
[16:22:57] <XXCoder> not a bad idea, but price is inssssane
[16:26:57] <Loetmichel> XXCoder: 350?
[16:27:06] <Loetmichel> thats insane indeed
[16:27:06] <XXCoder> yeah
[16:27:18] <Loetmichel> i made that from scrap in the shop once
[16:27:22] <XXCoder> well going laters
[16:27:38] <XXCoder> I want to make one evenually. has router can create parts lol
[16:27:39] <djdelorie> remember, you're not buying a product, you're backing the product...
[16:27:58] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4630
[16:28:04] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4633
[16:28:10] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4636
[16:28:18] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4639
[16:28:18] <djdelorie> if they only charged what it was worth, they wouldn't have anything left over to develop it with
[16:28:23] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4642
[16:28:27] <Loetmichel> easy as cake ;)
[16:28:55] <Loetmichel> "develop" ;)
[16:29:23] <Loetmichel> some of the ideas on kickstarter are "maaan, thats opd news"...
[16:29:30] <Loetmichel> old
[16:29:33] <djdelorie> so don't back those :-)
[16:45:39] <Deejay> gn8
[16:46:14] <CaptHindsight> I 3d printed a vacuum former
[16:54:31] <FloppyDisk> How big and for what?
[17:05:13] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: It seems that the worse part is when I've broken thru the glass, but still have to go thru it.
[17:12:35] <_methods> you just can't seem to get to the bottom of that glass hole
[17:17:06] <Jymmm> /me wraps _methods in razor wire and HFCSm then tosses him on an ant hill.
[17:48:10] <Loetmichel> hihi, thats where i was last thursday to sunday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeFVYmrnu8Y <- Fun to be had ;)
[17:48:49] <Loetmichel> some of these pilots are positively crazy... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLZ9gxf6k2Q
[17:50:19] <CaptHindsight> breadbox sized for making 3d printer parts
[17:51:11] <gregcnc> how do they fly (fall) upside down?
[17:51:19] <SpeedEvil> gregcnc: Shitloads of power.
[17:51:37] <gregcnc> but how do you tell the sabilizer you want to be upside down
[17:51:41] <SpeedEvil> A watt a gram for some of the silly ones.
[17:51:55] <SpeedEvil> they can be programmed arbitrarily
[17:52:24] <KreAture_Zzz> Hoy
[17:52:34] <KreAture_Zzz> Anyone checked linuxcnc latency on BeeBox ?
[17:52:39] <gregcnc> hmm i don't follow quads much
[17:53:03] <CaptHindsight> KreAture_Zzz: post a link pleaze
[17:53:05] <SpeedEvil> gregcnc: I've got some bits here - in many ways it's just CNC with wobblier axes. :)
[17:53:22] <KreAture_Zzz> gregcnc http://www.asrock.com/microsite/beebox/
[17:53:27] <KreAture_Zzz> sorry
[17:53:32] <KreAture_Zzz> CaptHindsight -^
[17:53:35] <KreAture_Zzz> :)
[17:54:00] <SpeedEvil> gregcnc: Varying from 2kg/1hr to ~100g/10 mins.
[17:54:20] <KreAture_Zzz> CaptHindsight the wifi is fitted in a mini pcie slot
[17:54:47] <SpeedEvil> Wifi is not sensible to use alas...
[17:55:02] <SpeedEvil> Why something so small?
[17:55:04] <KreAture_Zzz> I am pondering using: http://img.dxcdn.com/productimages/sku_389080_2.jpg
[17:55:19] <KreAture_Zzz> SpeedEvil to fit it in the box together with all the stepper controllers etc
[17:55:29] <CaptHindsight> KreAture_Zzz: since it has ethernet latency is not that critical
[17:55:30] <KreAture_Zzz> integrate it all in a nice unit
[17:55:41] <KreAture_Zzz> ??
[17:55:44] <SpeedEvil> KreAture_Zzz: how large is the whole machine?
[17:55:56] <CaptHindsight> KreAture_Zzz: id the ethernet is not connected to the cpu via USB
[17:56:03] <KreAture_Zzz> The cnc I am pondeirng using it on is a 850x500x120mm work area thing
[17:56:15] <gregcnc> I flew F5D stuff around 2000. never did much with stabilization or autonomy, it seems now I never will with the crazy laws
[17:56:33] <KreAture_Zzz> CaptHindsight I am thinking if it has good latency performance then it could do as a lpt direct controller with linuxcnc
[17:56:43] <SpeedEvil> KreAture_Zzz: a mini-itx sized board is not really going to be an issue, and is probably going to be well known.
[17:56:51] <SpeedEvil> And cheaper
[17:57:23] <CaptHindsight> KreAture_Zzz: it can haz LPT?
[17:57:28] <KreAture_Zzz> SpeedEvil I have a bunch of these, I do not have a bunch of min itx boards
[17:57:29] <KreAture_Zzz> hehe
[17:57:41] <KreAture_Zzz> CaptHindsight the http://img.dxcdn.com/productimages/sku_389080_2.jpg has lpt
[17:58:01] <SpeedEvil> http://www.banggood.com/Upgrade-NAZE32-SP-Racing-F3-Flight-Control-6-DOF-10-DOF-for-Milticopter-p-1010232.html - is an example of current quad controllers gregcnc.
[17:58:05] <CaptHindsight> KreAture_Zzz: what dat costs?
[17:58:05] <SpeedEvil> KreAture_Zzz: ah - fair enough
[17:58:26] <KreAture_Zzz> I am just wondering about the N3000 cpu performance if it will do multicore and context switching right so the rt kernel will do nice timing
[17:58:28] <Loetmichel> [00:24] <gregcnc> how do they fly (fall) upside down?
[17:58:28] <Loetmichel> [00:24] <SpeedEvil> gregcnc: Shitloads of power.
[17:58:51] <Loetmichel> about 1-2kw of engines in there... and a gyro board that can do "heading hold" instead of "hover mode"
[17:58:51] <CaptHindsight> KreAture_Zzz: it's often more a BIOS issue
[17:58:56] <KreAture_Zzz> CaptHindsight http://www.amazon.com/ASRock-BEEBOX-N3000-BB-Barebone/dp/B012SX5D3A
[17:59:18] <KreAture_Zzz> add $30 for a lpt
[17:59:20] <SpeedEvil> The above board has 10 axes of sensors, and can run really advanced filtering algorithms to nail down the orientation very well.
[17:59:23] <PCW> I kind of doubt you can get the RTAI kernel working on the N3000
[17:59:23] <CaptHindsight> KreAture_Zzz: dat PCIe to LPT costs what?
[17:59:42] <KreAture_Zzz> 30
[17:59:44] <KreAture_Zzz> usd
[17:59:45] <CaptHindsight> ah $30
[18:00:12] <SpeedEvil> KreAture_Zzz: That is a fair slice of a cheap or even second hand motherboard
[18:00:13] <KreAture_Zzz> I just find it cool to use if hacked to run everything directly :)
[18:00:16] <CaptHindsight> probably better off over Ethernet
[18:00:24] <PCW> also beware that many mini-pcie slots on those boxes are 1/2 sized
[18:00:31] <KreAture_Zzz> it has ethernet on board
[18:00:52] <KreAture_Zzz> I don't see why you keep mentionining ethernet though ?
[18:01:01] <CaptHindsight> easy enuff to test and find out
[18:01:10] <KreAture_Zzz> I am thinking msata hd + beebox + lpt + 5x stepper controllers
[18:01:13] <KreAture_Zzz> yeh
[18:01:13] <PCW> Preempt-RT latency on the N3150 is about 150 usec
[18:01:23] <KreAture_Zzz> I will prep a live usb stick and run it on a box
[18:01:33] <SpeedEvil> KreAture_Zzz: Ethernet motor controllers exist
[18:01:36] <KreAture_Zzz> PCW nice
[18:02:02] <CaptHindsight> beeebox --> ethernet --> ethernet FPGA ---> stepper or servo IO
[18:02:04] <KreAture_Zzz> SpeedEvil I like my controllers
[18:02:44] <PCW> I had to use a very up-to-date-kernel to get things to work so I would wonder if the ancient RTAI kernel has much hope
[18:03:00] <KreAture_Zzz> SpeedEvil 4.5 amps and 5 of em cost $45
[18:03:04] <CaptHindsight> have to make new RTAI kernel
[18:03:19] <PCW> worth a try, not sure if its worth a buy
[18:03:32] <KreAture_Zzz> we have 5 of em here
[18:03:33] <KreAture_Zzz> hehe
[18:03:34] <CaptHindsight> not for $155 imho
[18:03:40] <KreAture_Zzz> we have 5
[18:03:41] <KreAture_Zzz> free ones
[18:03:48] <CaptHindsight> but if dey are already paid for
[18:04:10] <KreAture_Zzz> and I have a stack of these: http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/38oAAOSwyQtVl0a-/s-l1600.jpg
[18:04:17] <PCW> well see if it boots from the wheezy live image
[18:04:19] <KreAture_Zzz> They seem to work really well with the paralell drive
[18:04:37] <KreAture_Zzz> PCW I run linux on it
[18:04:44] <KreAture_Zzz> already
[18:04:46] <KreAture_Zzz> :)
[18:05:03] <KreAture_Zzz> I was mostly looking to see if anyone had any experience with it
[18:05:05] <PCW> linux is easy RTAI not so much
[18:05:18] <KreAture_Zzz> I am most curious if I can ditch the wifi in favour of something else on that pcie slot
[18:05:31] <KreAture_Zzz> PCW yeh I fiddled a lot to get it running on the pi3
[18:06:02] <KreAture_Zzz> In the end I atleast got the latency tests run but not impressed
[18:06:23] <PCW> RTAI on the PI3?
[18:06:40] <CaptHindsight> had to be preempt_rt
[18:06:45] <KreAture_Zzz> ahh yes
[18:06:48] <KreAture_Zzz> it was the preempt
[18:06:58] <KreAture_Zzz> built it from src
[18:07:00] <KreAture_Zzz> took ages
[18:07:37] <KreAture_Zzz> here's the machine I am running now, but so far with an old shuttle xpc: http://kreature.org/projects/cnc/build_10.jpg
[18:08:24] <CaptHindsight> someone needs to invent a storage device for keeping toast from getting soggy in the fridge
[18:08:34] <KreAture_Zzz> lol
[18:08:43] <KreAture_Zzz> Try a BLT sandwich
[18:08:45] <KreAture_Zzz> very sad
[18:09:01] <KreAture_Zzz> Only way I found is to store it in kit form
[18:09:02] <CaptHindsight> see it's a common problem
[18:09:10] <KreAture_Zzz> aka, uncut tomato and fresh lettuce
[18:09:23] <PCW> My general experience is that Preemt-RT is great on fast machiness and pretty bad on slow ones
[18:09:25] <PCW> (slow meaning all ARMs and Atom range intel/AMD)
[18:09:52] <KreAture_Zzz> PCW the schuttle x is a core 2 duo 2.4 ghz
[18:09:56] <KreAture_Zzz> it doesn't do great
[18:10:09] <KreAture_Zzz> 9.5us I think
[18:11:16] <PCW> thats pretty good Preemt-RT is great on some faster machines:
[18:11:18] <PCW> http://freeby.mesanet.com/3.18.11-rt7.png
[18:13:15] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: In principle flash freezing in liquid nitrogen would keep the outside dry, and crispy and the insides moist
[18:13:15] <CaptHindsight> hmm no DARPA RFQ's for toast storage devices
[18:13:36] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: I have no idea how you would unfreeze it though
[18:13:47] <CaptHindsight> flash toasting
[18:14:12] <CaptHindsight> molecular sieve
[18:17:57] <KreAture_Zzz> upping video of endstop :)
[18:19:33] <KreAture_Zzz> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udRzt5_8kew
[18:19:37] <KreAture_Zzz> I love these hall switches
[19:15:45] <alex4nder> PCW: that's pretty slick latency
[19:16:31] <PCW> on that machine RTAI and Preempt-RT are similar
[19:18:09] * KreAture_Zzz needs to run that graph version of the test
[19:21:47] <joem_> do i need endstops on all axies in order to do tool height settings
[19:22:18] <joem_> home switch*
[19:23:09] <KreAture_Zzz> no
[19:24:09] <joem_> i like petg
[19:24:11] <joem_> its my fav
[19:25:09] <djdelorie> joem_: do you have problems with stringing and blobs?
[19:25:19] <joem_> blobs, every now and then
[19:25:22] <joem_> stringing, not any more
[19:25:29] <djdelorie> what fixed it?
[19:25:31] <joem_> its very sticky stuff, to itself
[19:25:32] <joem_> moar temp
[19:25:46] <joem_> i'm at like 250 c
[19:25:53] <djdelorie> I'll try that next time, thanks.
[19:26:31] <djdelorie> I've seen reports that less temp sometimes helps too, though.
[19:26:51] <joem_> also, for blobbing
[19:26:57] <joem_> it really doesn't tolerate overextrusion
[19:27:17] <joem_> any extra build-up builds up on the nozzle and eventually gets deposited as a burnt blob hehe
[19:27:24] <KreAture_Zzz> joem_ I print at 220c
[19:27:42] * djdelorie notes to try turning down extrusion rate
[19:27:46] <KreAture_Zzz> I find activating wiping worked well
[19:27:56] <djdelorie> wiping already on here :-)
[19:28:18] <KreAture_Zzz> problem is, to get really clear prints you need to dial in extrusion juuuuust right so as to not leave those tiny airchannels along every extrusion
[19:28:32] <joem_> yeah and have super even extrusion
[19:28:36] <KreAture_Zzz> jup
[19:28:46] <joem_> i have a worm gear drive for direct drive remote motor, and its not quite even
[19:28:50] <joem_> so my petg comes out super sparkly
[19:28:59] <djdelorie> the spool I have doesn't even have super consistent diameter :-P
[19:29:09] <SpeedEvil> Is PETG the bottle stuff?
[19:29:15] <KreAture_Zzz> I use a herringbone gear
[19:29:16] <djdelorie> related, yes
[19:29:17] <KreAture_Zzz> modified wades
[19:29:29] <KreAture_Zzz> and I run high steps
[19:29:31] <CaptHindsight> closed loop extruder, say it with me: closed loop extruder
[19:29:41] <KreAture_Zzz> result is 850 steps/mm and I run 1.75mm filament
[19:29:46] <KreAture_Zzz> very accurate extrusion
[19:29:55] <KreAture_Zzz> CaptHindsight I am working on one
[19:29:55] <djdelorie> rostock here, so bowden tube, had some issues with the filament sticking in the tube due to big diameter
[19:29:56] <joem_> https://i.imgur.com/tdUXziu.png
[19:30:12] <KreAture_Zzz> CaptHindsight using a sensor from optical mouse, it can track the filament perfectly, even the maxclr and the petg!
[19:30:32] <djdelorie> CaptHindsight: some people have that, but measuring a 1.75mm filament and keeping track of the diameters as they travel to the nozzle is... complicated
[19:31:04] <KreAture_Zzz> joem_ http://kreature.org/projects/3d_printer/rostock_plus/needle_hotend/mightymouse_first_print_2_cropped.jpg
[19:31:06] <djdelorie> easier to buy a better spool next time :-)
[19:31:10] <CaptHindsight> djdelorie: doin it wrong
[19:31:34] <djdelorie> hey, you're talking about someone who made a cnc machine out of plywood :-)
[19:31:36] <joem_> KreAture_Zzz, not bad
[19:31:44] <djdelorie> "wrong" has never stopped me before
[19:31:49] <joem_> i'll be printing a light cover with it, so
[19:32:05] <CaptHindsight> http://omnexus.specialchem.com/selectors/c-thermoplastics
[19:32:41] <KreAture_Zzz> joem_ pla print: http://kreature.org/projects/3d_printer/rostock_plus/needle_hotend/tripple_mightymouse_hotends_3.jpg
[19:33:00] <CaptHindsight> djdelorie: yes, I'm familiar with people that have to learn the hard way
[19:33:12] <KreAture_Zzz> joem_ that's my 3 hotend bracket btw, fits in normal rostock or kossel
[19:33:19] <joem_> neat
[19:33:26] <KreAture_Zzz> My hotend design is very narrow
[19:33:42] <CaptHindsight> Category : Thermoplastics 94,198 products match your search
[19:33:52] <djdelorie> I got a cheap spool just to try it, and "cheap" was too cheap, that's all. Like buying chinese crap and expecting low runout :-)
[19:34:06] <KreAture_Zzz> joem_ http://kreature.org/projects/3d_printer/rostock_plus/needle_hotend/mightymouse_13.jpg
[19:34:06] <joem_> https://github.com/mosfet/kossel-minimax/blob/master/preview/preview-effector-flexdrive-e3d.png?raw=true
[19:34:22] <joem_> aww how cute
[19:34:22] <KreAture_Zzz> jeg seen 3 snapped flexdrives now
[19:34:32] <joem_> holy crap, how
[19:34:39] <KreAture_Zzz> The wire doesn't like the load apparantly
[19:34:48] <joem_> sheesh, what load...
[19:34:57] <KreAture_Zzz> apparantly more than it likes
[19:34:57] <KreAture_Zzz> lol
[19:35:06] <joem_> the e3dv6 i'm using flows fine
[19:35:08] <KreAture_Zzz> anyway, hoping to get the direct extruder running
[19:35:10] <joem_> the ubis i was using before?
[19:35:12] <joem_> nope.
[19:35:21] <joem_> the filament woudl buckle in the bowden tube (before i was on flex cable)
[19:35:40] <KreAture_Zzz> I print ninjaflex 1.75mm on mine
[19:35:42] <KreAture_Zzz> 700mm bowden
[19:35:51] <KreAture_Zzz> it has to go slow though
[19:35:52] <KreAture_Zzz> very slow
[19:36:03] <joem_> yeah i did ninjaflex thru it as well, after i replaecd the hotend
[19:36:04] <KreAture_Zzz> can't wait to get the directdrive running
[19:36:07] <djdelorie> CaptHindsight: that plastics site doesn't sell filament, though, just sheet and pellet
[19:36:29] <KreAture_Zzz> My directdrive is 12g brushless motor, sensored with controller and filament motion sensor
[19:36:52] <KreAture_Zzz> overengineered perhaps but I think it has promise
[19:37:13] <joem_> https://i.imgur.com/iCUnvEm.jpg
[19:37:18] <djdelorie> KreAture_Zzz: can it measure the filament too? It really needs to be measured at the extruder to be worth doing...
[19:37:41] <KreAture_Zzz> djdelorie yes
[19:37:47] <djdelorie> cool
[19:37:56] <KreAture_Zzz> The sensor has 31 pix width
[19:38:15] <KreAture_Zzz> at 7 bit depth it can inerpolate width quite well
[19:39:07] <joem_> heh pix width is worthless if delta is only a pixel wide
[19:39:17] <joem_> ahh 7 bit, even better
[19:39:27] <KreAture_Zzz> 31 pixels * 7 biit
[19:39:32] <KreAture_Zzz> lots of data
[19:39:34] <KreAture_Zzz> hehe
[19:39:37] <joem_> yeah but think
[19:39:49] <KreAture_Zzz> The 1.75mm filament covers about 26 pix
[19:39:59] <joem_> most of the pixels will never change
[19:40:23] <joem_> heh unless extra variant filament
[19:40:27] <KreAture_Zzz> slope estimation on 7 bits allow curve fitting to get around 64 levels of accuracy in a single pixel
[19:40:30] <KreAture_Zzz> subpixel estimation
[19:40:36] <joem_> 1.75mm +/- 0.5mm :P
[19:40:54] <KreAture_Zzz> joem_ it's main job is to track filament motion with 1600 dpi precision
[19:41:04] <djdelorie> I do something similar for temperature measurement for my house thermostats
[19:41:07] <KreAture_Zzz> and it does so spendidly
[19:41:12] <joem_> well sure
[19:41:15] <joem_> what other job would it have
[19:41:17] <joem_> takin selfies?
[19:41:53] <KreAture_Zzz> each pixel is 0.067mm approx so 0.5mm is 7.4 pix
[19:42:12] <KreAture_Zzz> more than enough to compensate the volumetric flow
[19:42:38] <joem_> along one axis :P
[19:42:40] <djdelorie> can it measure feed rate as well? Account for variations in the drive gear?
[19:43:12] <KreAture_Zzz> joem_ waddya mean ?
[19:43:13] <CaptHindsight> djdelorie: make your own filament, there are hardly any to choose from already in filament form
[19:43:22] <KreAture_Zzz> Yo uonly need to check one axis
[19:43:43] <djdelorie> CaptHindsight: people are trying to do that, but getting a consistent diameter is very tricky, and very important.
[19:43:51] <joem_> if i take a picture of you from the front
[19:43:54] <KreAture_Zzz> most filament is correct and simply compressed when spooled, or it is wrong in all axis due to stretch when manufactured
[19:43:55] <joem_> i know how wide you are
[19:43:56] <djdelorie> It would be like trying to grind your own four-flute ball nose end mill
[19:43:59] <joem_> but i don't know how far your butt sticks out
[19:44:07] <KreAture_Zzz> I was not extruded
[19:44:10] <joem_> LOLOL
[19:44:12] <joem_> you kinda were
[19:44:14] <joem_> :P
[19:44:19] <KreAture_Zzz> I have run tests on 3 points
[19:44:21] <CaptHindsight> djdelorie: you just need a consistent gear pump
[19:44:21] <KreAture_Zzz> 120 deg
[19:44:26] <djdelorie> uterus: the original 3D printer
[19:44:30] <KreAture_Zzz> There were never any variation to speak of
[19:44:33] <KreAture_Zzz> lol
[19:44:36] <KreAture_Zzz> good one
[19:44:48] <joem_> you were extruded on the day of your brith
[19:44:53] <KreAture_Zzz> anyway
[19:44:57] <joem_> anyway
[19:45:00] <joem_> two sensors
[19:45:05] <joem_> one from each angle
[19:45:12] <KreAture_Zzz> My tests show the diameter variance is minimal vs the slippage when going from low feed to high feed
[19:45:16] <djdelorie> CaptHindsight: it would need to be accurate to nanoliters
[19:46:00] <djdelorie> and be extremely light (it's a moving part) and handle high temperatures
[19:46:10] <joem_> so, while there is enough variance in the width of the filament to warrant monitoring and adjusting, there isn't enough axial width variance to worry about multiple angle monitoring
[19:46:17] <joem_> i.e. watching out for a fat butt
[19:46:28] <CaptHindsight> djdelorie: yes, they are called extruders
[19:46:35] <KreAture_Zzz> and you forget filament tolerances on good filamnent is +/- 0.05mm
[19:46:36] <_methods> lol
[19:46:42] <KreAture_Zzz> a factor 10 better than you said
[19:47:04] <KreAture_Zzz> diameter varies with 2.8%
[19:47:12] <KreAture_Zzz> My tests got over 10% slippage
[19:47:20] <joem_> filament round-ness also varies, yes?
[19:47:22] <KreAture_Zzz> from 20mm/s printspeed up to 140mm/s
[19:47:35] <_methods> gotta watch out for that shrinkage
[19:47:37] <joem_> sometimes it can be oval
[19:47:37] <KreAture_Zzz> the total area is same even if roundness is wrong
[19:47:49] <joem_> not if you're only viewing it's profile from one direction
[19:47:50] <KreAture_Zzz> it's just been compressed on roll
[19:48:14] <KreAture_Zzz> I am saying so far I am ignoring the width sensing alltogether as it gave so little return
[19:48:24] <_methods> did i get put in #repcrap?
[19:48:36] <joem_> ahhhh ok ok
[19:48:41] <_methods> oh nm this is still #linuxcnc
[19:48:56] <djdelorie> trying to see if linuxcnc can close the loop on extrusion
[19:49:00] <jdh> didn't know there were that many printerpeople running linuxcnc
[19:49:15] <CaptHindsight> small lab extruder example http://www.directindustry.com/prod/brabender-gmbh-co-kg/product-50061-461507.html
[19:49:44] <CaptHindsight> extruder screw, heated barrel with servo motor for consistent speed
[19:49:46] <KreAture_Zzz> 0.05mm increase in filament adds 5.8% volume to print while slipping 10% looses 10%
[19:49:53] <joem_> fancy
[19:49:54] <KreAture_Zzz> anyway
[19:50:03] <KreAture_Zzz> we'll see
[19:50:18] <KreAture_Zzz> I'd like to get the directdrive running on final proto before I decide
[19:50:28] <KreAture_Zzz> it's very easy to add multiple sensors though
[19:50:30] <djdelorie> CaptHindsight: that thing's *minimum* speed is 100x faster than my 3D printer's *max* speed
[19:50:35] <KreAture_Zzz> :)
[19:50:41] <CaptHindsight> consistent filament size is done by keeping the screw speed consistent
[19:50:58] <CaptHindsight> djdelorie: that thing is for making filament
[19:51:01] <djdelorie> ah
[19:51:12] <KreAture_Zzz> CaptHindsight I am talking about printing though
[19:51:18] <CaptHindsight> ok i give up
[19:51:24] <djdelorie> I've seen videos of filament factories, they're much more complicated than that
[19:51:42] <KreAture_Zzz> lol
[19:51:56] <KreAture_Zzz> talk to crunch in #reprap djdelorie he makes filament
[19:52:00] <KreAture_Zzz> I've seen pics
[19:52:10] <CaptHindsight> you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him think
[19:52:11] <KreAture_Zzz> That machine in pic is the extruder, you also need puller and spooler
[19:52:14] <djdelorie> you confused me by using the word "extruder" which is also what the print head on a FFM printer is called
[19:52:16] <KreAture_Zzz> lol
[19:52:18] <joem_> https://imgur.com/a/DJ0aj
[19:52:23] <joem_> woops, not that one
[19:52:31] <joem_> https://imgur.com/a/xoiCk
[19:52:49] <KreAture_Zzz> haha nice
[19:52:55] <KreAture_Zzz> I like hives
[19:53:00] <KreAture_Zzz> as long as they are nowhere near me
[19:53:10] <joem_> haha
[19:53:32] <djdelorie> I am not at all interested in making my own filament when I can buy it for $30/kg on Amazon
[19:53:38] <KreAture_Zzz> ooooh nicd
[19:53:45] <KreAture_Zzz> is it acme or ballscrew ?
[19:53:50] <KreAture_Zzz> I hate backlash
[19:53:55] <djdelorie> I don't make my own end mills either
[19:54:47] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GLN64QenY0 Plastic Extruder
[19:54:56] <jdh> heh... I like teh 7x on the g0704 base
[19:55:08] <joem_> acmes right now, i am working on balslcrew upgrade parts
[19:55:13] <joem_> and new angular contact bearings
[19:55:28] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaB-dsB1Kfk
[19:55:39] <joem_> lol yeah the g0704 base that comes with it is crazy small and wobly
[19:55:52] <joem_> i don't want to drill holes thru my basement floor, so
[19:56:13] <KreAture_Zzz> CaptHindsight wonder how clean that water is
[19:56:22] <jdh> mine isn't particularly wobbly
[19:57:03] <joem_> i was more worried about the heavy ass nema34 closed loop servo steppers
[19:57:18] <joem_> and inertial mass
[19:59:09] <KreAture_Zzz> well, bedtime
[19:59:16] <joem_> g'nite!
[19:59:22] <KreAture_Zzz> I am already in a coma lol
[19:59:26] <KreAture_Zzz> 2:30 am here
[19:59:50] <KreAture_Zzz> Tomorrow I will try cutting some parts to make a rotary airlock valve for the dust collector
[19:59:56] <jdh> I made my initial mounts out of delrin on my router
[20:00:17] <joem_> jdh, gantry style for doin' wood stuff?
[20:01:18] <KreAture_Zzz> https://bitraf.no/photos/image-1684668680.0.41438500.1431777167.jpg
[20:01:32] <KreAture_Zzz> That's what I set up for the makerspace on last address, now we have moved so I gotta do it again
[20:02:25] <KreAture_Zzz> I want to add a rotary airlock to the bottom of the cyclone so we don't have to have vacuum in the dustbin
[20:04:14] <jdh> chinese 6040
[20:04:14] <jdh> err... guess I made them on my old plasticy one
[20:04:52] <joem_> ahhh i see i see
[20:11:29] <joem_> ok so... i have a few tool holders, and i have a copper clad to make a touch off plate
[20:11:47] <joem_> i don't have endstop / home switches on my mill, and i don't have a power draw bar for auto tool changes
[20:12:45] <joem_> do i have what it takes to do tool changes without having to touch off and use global coord system all the time
[20:15:23] <zeeshan> you need some sort of reference
[20:15:32] <zeeshan> im not sure how you would do that without home switches
[20:15:35] <joem_> i figure i have have a starting tool (if needed)
[20:15:38] <zeeshan> unless you left your machine on all the time or encoders?
[20:15:43] <zeeshan> yea you can do that
[20:15:46] <zeeshan> touch off to a known point
[20:16:05] <joem_> yeah, which would often be the top center of the piece i'm working on
[20:16:19] <joem_> x/y from a wobbler
[20:17:14] <joem_> i just would have no way to "go to toolchange position"
[20:26:39] <jdh> why not
[20:27:37] <joem_> yeah i would if i did start up touch off a known location on the machine rather than the part
[20:28:02] <joem_> so it would go like this
[20:28:09] <joem_> turn on machine....
[20:28:38] <joem_> touch off a known location on the machine to set machine coords
[20:28:41] <djdelorie> what you need is a way to automatically adjust the tool offset Z without affecting the touch-off Z, yes?
[20:28:49] <jdh> right
[20:29:04] <joem_> and then touch off my workpiece to set relative coords
[20:29:11] <joem_> djdelorie, yeah, thats the 2nd half
[20:29:20] <jdh> you generally have to touch off to the work anyway
[20:29:28] <djdelorie> plus some automatic go-to-toolchange and return-to-work
[20:29:29] <jdh> I just redo z when I change tools
[20:29:32] <joem_> jdh, thats what i do now, except i only operate in machine coord land
[20:29:44] <joem_> every tool change requires much work
[20:29:51] <djdelorie> jdh: I do too, with separate gcode files for each tool, but it would be nice to auto-measure the tool
[20:29:54] <jdh> mine just require new z touch off
[20:30:02] <joem_> oh, currently i don't ahve touch off plate
[20:30:06] <jdh> me either
[20:30:16] <jdh> I touch off to the top of the work (generally)
[20:30:24] <jdh> I use separate gcode files for each tool
[20:30:28] <joem_> yeah, doesn't that take forever?
[20:30:37] <joem_> well
[20:30:38] <jdh> takes less time than changing the tool
[20:30:48] <joem_> huh, do i do it wrong?
[20:30:54] <djdelorie> my trick is to use a 1/4" round (drill rod or broken bit) and roll it under the tool. Much faster than trying to hit 0.0
[20:30:57] <joem_> i bring my tool down to a safe height, fast
[20:31:05] <joem_> and then slowly jog until i see marks appear on top of the work piece
[20:31:07] <jdh> I use a 0.300 gauge pin
[20:31:18] <joem_> yeah, i'll use a 123 block for drill bits
[20:31:23] <djdelorie> with the spindle *off* of course
[20:31:30] <joem_> hehe
[20:31:55] <joem_> my goal is to set the tool heights of all my fixed height tools
[20:32:03] <joem_> and then touch off the piece once
[20:32:14] <joem_> and then do manual tool changes when prompted to
[20:32:14] <jdh> mine too, if I wanted to spend lots of time or money on tool holders
[20:32:22] <djdelorie> sure, that's what tool tables are for
[20:32:33] <djdelorie> I just have a router so nothing is "fixed" about the tool Z offset
[20:32:39] <joem_> ahhh
[20:33:06] <joem_> for me, all the jobber bits will seat all the way in jacbos chuck
[20:33:13] <joem_> i bought a few r8 endmill holders on ebay on the cheap
[20:33:17] <joem_> well bought one, then tested it for runout
[20:33:19] <joem_> then bought 3 more
[20:33:46] <joem_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/190670634766?
[21:20:26] <skunkworks> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XntXTuXNfvE
[21:26:05] <malcom2073> Ah I love the sound of that machien
[21:26:08] <malcom2073> machine*
[21:26:14] <malcom2073> Guy at work was running out 500 today
[21:26:31] <malcom2073> our*
[21:26:36] <malcom2073> This new keyboard is kicking my ass
[21:29:34] <zeeshan-g> :D
[21:34:53] <Webmanoffesto> I'm using Ubuntu Gnome. I used DiskImageWriter to write the image to my 32GB DiskOnKey. Now no system I try can "see" (mount?) by DiskOnKey.
[21:55:42] <witnit> I wonder how yasnak is doing today
[21:55:54] <yasnak> haha
[21:55:55] <yasnak> im alive
[21:55:59] <witnit> oh good
[21:56:31] <yasnak> well, not mentally
[21:56:38] <witnit> oh?
[21:57:02] <witnit> well, we're all mad here.
[21:57:08] <yasnak> we moved our entire QC to the shop floor, moving cubes into the previous QC cleanroom
[21:57:15] <yasnak> what a mess
[21:57:24] <witnit> sounds horrific
[21:57:52] <yasnak> its not even all placed...i have some ghetto networking/power ran until they stop changing their minds on locations for shit haha
[21:58:29] <witnit> dont cut your wires, they will want it all moved back the way it was here in about 8 months
[21:58:39] <yasnak> you're not kidding
[21:58:45] <witnit> nope
[21:58:47] <witnit> :)
[21:58:48] <yasnak> its amazing too
[21:59:18] <yasnak> its like whenever I begin to pull ahead...have all machines running full tilt and all machines with pending jobs ready to go they throw some stupid shit at me
[21:59:44] <yasnak> then they complain shit isn't getting done. i love it. i'm sure others have this issue too?
[22:00:12] <Duc> why would you move QC out of a temp controlled room
[22:00:22] <yasnak> haha
[22:00:28] <witnit> don't they know a shop makes the most money when the setup guys are sitting around drinking coffee and thinking up new ideas
[22:00:55] <yasnak> because we're running out of space. so putting it in a smaller back room packed to the brim with swiss machines seemed like a good idea eh
[22:01:23] <Duc> thought we were the only ones dumb enough to do something like that
[22:01:29] <yasnak> ha
[22:01:43] <yasnak> they reading this shit in manufacturing mags or what?
[22:01:48] <andypugh> It might have been the least-bad option. Hard to tell from here.
[22:02:18] <yasnak> some stupid linkedin post with management buzzwords
[22:03:22] <andypugh> Just moved my flight back a week, I get to spend a weekend in Detroit, so I lose a weekend on my projects, but don’t get paid, ‘cos it;s the weejkend.
[22:03:38] <witnit> the biggest problem with rearranging things, is that usually the people who make the calls arent the ones working the floor.
[22:05:24] <somenewguy> aint that the truth
[22:05:45] <Duc> haha
[22:06:02] <somenewguy> (full disclosure I'm an engineer, but I am stuck working under the PhDs and marketing direction often enough)
[22:06:41] <somenewguy> sometimes thier definition of effeciency and important work only aligns with some kind of backwards universe that only exists in magazines and promo videos
[22:09:12] <Duc> dont worry Im a engineer also but deal more with asssembly and flow of processes. business guys can be idiots
[22:14:43] <yasnak> Man, I like DMG but their reps push so often its annoying
[22:14:59] <yasnak> four voicemails, one a day from the rep
[22:15:46] <yasnak> they'd fly us out for IMTS and pay for rooms. jeez.
[22:20:49] <andypugh> somenewguy: full disclosure, Im not an engineer and I am a PhD, and it’s just the same from where I stand too.
[22:25:38] <yasnak> so whats going on in detroit andypugh?
[22:25:40] <witnit> the direction marketing teams take products can have long term mental and emotional effects on engineers
[22:26:31] <andypugh> The older I get the more I have noticed that marketing actually know what they are doing most of the time.
[22:27:32] <andypugh> yasnak: proto-vehicle build. I arrived on Monday to plug in the PCM and get the engine running. The engine is still not really installed in the car.
[22:28:22] <yasnak> for one of the big guys?
[22:28:26] <yasnak> that sounds cool as hell
[22:28:59] <andypugh> It’s problems you tend to forget when planning, like how when the exaust guys are working the car is 6’ off the ground so nobody else can physically reach their bits.
[22:29:38] <yasnak> midgetlivesmatter
[22:30:20] <andypugh> I did suggest having the car on the lift, then putting up scaffolding round it.
[22:31:19] <witnit> Mission Impossible via the sunroof
[22:31:30] <andypugh> I have never seen so many vehicle lifts, something like 800 2-post lifts in one enormous building.
[22:32:21] <witnit> basically just a building full of people walking around cars pointing at them with sticks?
[22:32:34] <yasnak> massive operations like that make my head spin
[22:32:48] <MacGalempsy> guys, my old pc took a crap and I am trying to use this lenovo. does anyone know what compatibility the PCIe is on a mesa 5i25?
[22:32:54] <yasnak> i mean we're large, but thats a small city sized large
[22:32:56] <witnit> I go to the international harvester building, innnsane
[22:34:20] <MacGalempsy> PCW around?
[22:35:44] <andypugh> MacGalempsy: You maybe want pcw_home
[22:36:00] <MacGalempsy> pcw_home around?
[22:36:04] <MacGalempsy> thanks andy
[22:36:18] <andypugh> But AFAIK if the card will physically fit, then it should work.
[22:37:08] <MacGalempsy> the strange part is I load up linuxcnc onto the box and it loads the max jitter is fair, but when I load the card the machine will not boot up. the bios has been updated, but it just doesnt seem to want to start
[22:37:26] <MacGalempsy> even tried a larger psa
[22:37:28] <MacGalempsy> psu
[22:41:08] <witnit> MacGalempsy: what does the error code and dmesg read?
[22:41:11] <MacGalempsy> this shows the machine has a 32bit PCI 2.5 5v on the machine, that seems to be pretty current
[22:41:29] <MacGalempsy> the machine will not even power up wit h the card installed
[22:41:37] <MacGalempsy> not even to the boot screen
[22:41:41] <witnit> you can post here https://gist.github.com/
[22:41:48] <witnit> your errors and dmesg
[22:45:34] <witnit> all software should have a button on the crash screen that automatically summarizes key info and bug report uploads it to a website and gives you a sharable link. It would make problem solving so much more efficient.
[22:46:26] <MacGalempsy> im going to mess with the onboard hdd settings, it mentions in one blurb that this may work...
[22:48:05] <djdelorie> 5v pci vs 3.3v pci might be an issue... ?
[22:55:20] <witnit> its hard saying, the easiest thing to do though would probably remove daughter cards and check for 5i25, or power daughter cards with auxillary power and try again
[22:56:02] <enleth> a riddle for AC motor experts: a series universal motor had two capacitors, electrolytic from the looks of it, connecting both brushes to the chassis/earth, but they're long leaked out and dead and the markings are unreadable. How would one determine the correct value of replacement capacitors?
[22:58:20] <witnit> enleth: so basicly there is a starting cap and a running cap? you can trace which is which, I suppose the rest is guesswork without a metal plate saying motor type
[22:58:28] <enleth> I'm tempted to measure winding inductances and resistances, model the whole thing in pspice and plot cutoff frequency and motor current relative to capacitor value, then see how it behaves in reality
[22:58:38] <enleth> witnit: no, it's an universal motor, those are filtering caps
[22:58:55] <enleth> shunting rotor commutation noise to ground
[22:59:40] <mow> 3 phase?
[23:00:58] <witnit> i know so little about motors i wish someone had an answer for you, I would love to learn something
[23:01:08] <enleth> do they even make 3 phase brushed motors?
[23:01:22] <enleth> it's a single phase field winding series motor
[23:01:45] <mow> one cap must be a phase shifter then
[23:01:49] <mow> or both
[23:01:51] <enleth> no
[23:01:58] <mow> how does it start then
[23:02:42] <enleth> you're confusing it with a single phase induction motor
[23:02:58] <mow> ok
[23:03:09] <enleth> a series universal motor has a stator field winding and a brushed rotor winding
[23:03:34] <enleth> the relative orientation of those always ensures a phase shift
[23:04:09] <mow> find a motor on ebay about the same and see if it has some specs
[23:04:13] <enleth> this type of motor can operate with no capacitors at all, but they're useful to cut down brush noise
[23:04:34] <enleth> no can do, the damn thing is ancient and very unusual
[23:05:06] <enleth> I'm trying to get the manufacturer to dig up 50s datasheets but they don't even know if they still have those
[23:05:34] <mow> I would guess in the 300 microfarad range
[23:05:44] <mow> they big
[23:05:54] <mow> in size
[23:06:31] <mow> physical size
[23:06:38] <enleth> the caps were completely dead and shorted, high resistance but still, so the motor operates much better after removing them, but it's noisy as hell, as in, audible noise, and I know it should be silent. bearings are fine, this is definitely vibration from harmonics
[23:07:05] <enleth> 8mm dia, 40mm long, it's a double capacitor in a single case, with three leads, one common
[23:07:36] <enleth> made about 70 years ago
[23:07:41] <mow> ac noise filter... I would think 300 good starting range
[23:09:01] <enleth> I'd start testing in the same range too, but I've got no real "feel" for how the winding inductances are going to affect the resulting "ideal" filter
[23:09:49] <mow> 70 year old, my moto is sometimes it's good enough
[23:09:50] <mow> lol
[23:09:55] <mow> motto
[23:09:59] <enleth> the schematic doesn't really map to any textbook filter topology and I'm a little out of my comfort zone here
[23:10:17] <enleth> so I guess it's going to be pspice time
[23:11:00] <mow> mybe you can rub something on the cap to make the letters show
[23:11:28] <mow> maybe a blue light might show something
[23:11:37] <enleth> interesting idea
[23:11:57] <mow> I have diff flashlights for doing that
[23:12:11] <mow> led in diff wave lenght
[23:12:31] <enleth> nice
[23:12:51] <mow> might get lucky... i'm sure it isn't all gone
[23:13:43] <mow> little spit sometimes brings letters out if you haven't already tried that
[23:14:12] <enleth> I guess I'll have to see
[23:14:30] <mow> good luck
[23:14:39] <mow> bed time
[23:15:17] <mow> whats this old motor on?
[23:16:59] <enleth> a planetarium projector I'm helping renovate
[23:17:22] <mow> ah... nice
[23:17:31] <enleth> cleaned up the gearing already, making new motor control circuit
[23:17:56] <enleth> it was originally controlled with a huge potentiometer that sparks and heats up like crazy
[23:18:27] <enleth> I'm setting up a servo-controlled autotransformer instead, so that the potentiometer will only pass control current for the servo
[23:19:17] <mow> nice to see people fixing the old stuff
[23:19:39] <mow> my machine shop is old stuff
[23:20:10] <enleth> the thing sits in a museum
[23:20:14] <enleth> but it's still being used
[23:20:21] <mow> sweet
[23:20:56] <mow> must have had one of those old pots with about 16 guage windings
[23:21:20] <enleth> the fun thing is, it wasn't being oiled and greased properly for the last 40 years, but it's mechanically fine regardless of that
[23:21:45] <mow> how do you like the smell of the old electronics
[23:21:50] <enleth> even the 38:1 worm reduction gear that runs at 3kRPM
[23:21:52] <mow> has it's own smell
[23:22:05] <mow> that's when they made stuff
[23:22:07] <enleth> not much electronic in there, just some switches and pots
[23:22:23] <enleth> all hand-wound unique snowflakes
[23:22:24] <mow> yeah but they have a certain smell
[23:22:34] <enleth> well they do, when they spark, sure
[23:23:06] <mow> ok... now I'm off to bed
[23:23:08] <mow> latter