#linuxcnc | Logs for 2016-05-07

[00:18:11] <XXCoder> https://youtu.be/FIU-xO8wm1c https://youtu.be/XfxE7Tk6Bb4 second one near when I stopped it
[00:20:11] * flyback punches Jymmm
[00:20:38] <XXCoder> what did Jymmm do flyback
[00:21:09] <flyback> we know each other from yrs back
[00:21:24] <XXCoder> ah heh ok
[00:26:34] <XXCoder> what ya think of videos
[01:07:17] <pink_vampire> hi
[01:07:49] <pink_vampire> I'm here by myself now
[01:09:26] <pink_vampire> my BF tried to set the probe, but the Z axis move down all the time.
[01:09:44] <pink_vampire> XXCoder: are you around?
[01:52:51] <flyback> https://i.ytimg.com/vi/DE4GfpOSWW0/hqdefault.jpg <--- this is a flyback
[01:54:18] <XXCoder> sparky.
[02:19:10] <Deejay> moin
[02:20:18] <XXCoder> hey
[02:20:26] <XXCoder> https://youtu.be/FIU-xO8wm1c https://youtu.be/XfxE7Tk6Bb4 second one near when I stopped it
[02:20:30] <XXCoder> check it out
[02:46:17] <pink_vampire> XXCoder: the audio on the video is too much.
[02:59:19] <MattyMatt> pesky disney varmints. if it wasn't for them machinery's handbook would be out of copyright next year
[02:59:38] <XXCoder> conquences
[03:05:12] <MattyMatt> hmm, if the copyright was owned by the publishers, the copyright is 70 years from date of publication. the authors were editors of the magazine so probabbly employees
[03:06:29] <MattyMatt> if that's the case, all the editions up to WW2 are now PD
[03:07:27] <MattyMatt> PDF more like :)
[03:09:09] <MattyMatt> I'm designing toolmakers chests, and I want something more modern than the drawer for paper book
[03:10:05] <archivist> those chests are never large enough
[03:10:27] <XXCoder> MattyMatt: just build nonecludian one
[03:10:30] <XXCoder> plenty room in one
[03:11:07] <MattyMatt> the old wooden ones need a matching roller cabinet with the larger drawers
[03:11:19] <MattyMatt> all in a nice bit of oak
[03:12:15] <MattyMatt> sensibly tho. wood drawers always stick with too much weight in
[03:13:08] <archivist> even a motor mechanics mobile chest is a bit on the small side
[03:13:38] <MattyMatt> buy 2 :)
[03:13:47] <MattyMatt> I'll offer a discount
[03:14:20] <MattyMatt> especially in the GreenEarth finish (aka recycled pallet wood)
[03:15:15] <archivist> I am buying nothing at the moment
[03:16:18] <MattyMatt> I need to buy a planer/jointer, if I'm gonna make any headway
[03:16:38] <XXCoder> archivist: I bought big one from costco for just 4660
[03:16:41] <XXCoder> er $660
[03:16:59] <XXCoder> guy in shop bought tiny one for $800
[03:17:21] <MattyMatt> I made 15 prototype drawers, but planing them all by hand would take me a week
[03:21:05] <MattyMatt> http://www.screwfix.com/p/titan-ttb579pln-204mm-planer-thicknesser-230v/15774
[03:21:40] <MattyMatt> price has gone up, but that'd pay for itself by the 3rd toolbox afaics
[03:23:54] <MattyMatt> I'd prefer steel cabinets painted red, but hey ho. I got wood
[03:24:16] <XXCoder> lol
[03:24:24] <XXCoder> whatever works ;)
[03:24:41] <MattyMatt> I can still paint them red
[03:25:08] <MattyMatt> except the oak ones, they get linseed oil and used motor oil patina
[03:25:33] <MattyMatt> used cutting oil rather, for the smell
[03:30:43] <XXCoder> I recall woodygears guy making that design made wholly of wood drawers
[03:30:51] <XXCoder> so it does not jam
[03:32:27] <XXCoder> ah MattyMatt https://woodgears.ca/drawers/
[03:35:20] <archivist> a bit crap in measuring top left alignment https://woodgears.ca/drawers/parts_drawers_stacked.jpg
[03:35:51] <XXCoder> which one?
[03:36:09] <XXCoder> oh see it
[03:36:27] <XXCoder> probably why its top lol
[03:37:09] <XXCoder> I do support wax, I use it for my drawer, or used it when it needed. it still does not need "refresh" after decade
[03:37:26] <XXCoder> my drawers is ugly as hell but solidly built, yet very light
[03:37:43] <XXCoder> solid wood back too
[03:38:27] <archivist> the bevel on the rear edge jumps out of the image https://woodgears.ca/drawers/tv_drawer.jpg
[03:38:37] <archivist> rough worker
[03:38:45] <XXCoder> that was his old project
[03:38:49] <XXCoder> college one I think
[03:38:58] <MattyMatt> I've got cunning plans involving delrin wheels and UHMW tape
[03:39:55] <MattyMatt> a drawer you can open with 1 hand even when fully loaded is a good drawer
[03:40:12] <MattyMatt> because your other hand is holding the thing you want to stash
[03:40:25] <XXCoder> or free to take out
[03:45:35] <archivist> I have one of the small wood drawer cabinets with a handle on top, most used drawer is for needle files
[03:47:03] <XXCoder> archivist: you happen to know why my machine Y axis was little wonky?
[03:47:14] <XXCoder> I think its not enough power
[03:47:34] <XXCoder> would setting X and Y to 75% power help make sure it has enough power?
[03:48:02] <archivist> xy settings should make no difference at all
[03:48:33] <XXCoder> it does not seem to be skipping as it ran for hours
[03:48:39] <XXCoder> Z and X stayed very good
[03:48:52] <XXCoder> last time driver overheated and screwed with Z
[03:49:04] <XXCoder> fan kept it cool this time, so it ran for long while
[03:49:22] <archivist> oherheating may well go into protection/shutdown and step loss
[03:49:56] <XXCoder> indeed, not this time though, volt regulators was just warm and heat sink stayed mostly cool
[03:50:59] <MattyMatt> dammit, those £150 planers seem to be vapourware loss leaders. "please select a different location or choose a different product"
[03:51:57] <MattyMatt> next one up is £250
[03:52:47] <XXCoder> archivist: though it seems quite stable, stable enough that I can do short runs, and avoid probable power "brownouts"
[03:53:15] <XXCoder> first Y screwup happened when my nephew acciently unplugged spindle and I had to turn it back on
[03:53:27] <XXCoder> lights dim a little bit (500 w spindle)
[03:59:14] <MattyMatt> that sounds like you need a thicker cable
[03:59:19] <enleth> is your wiring made of wet straw?
[04:00:19] <archivist> american wiring
[04:00:21] <XXCoder> no, "spindle" is grinder
[04:00:27] <XXCoder> it has to be plugged in
[04:00:38] <XXCoder> and its euro so it has to plugged in 120v to 220v
[04:00:51] <XXCoder> the convertor box dont hgold into euro plugs well
[04:01:22] <XXCoder> evenually I will try to grind off some extrusions on my bosch edge router so I can use that
[04:03:27] <MattyMatt> make a rotary converter with a massive flywheel and 2 independent generators
[04:04:02] <XXCoder> hmm never heard of rotary convertor
[04:04:09] <XXCoder> besides that spindle is fine for now
[04:04:22] <XXCoder> if I screw up and break it, its $35
[04:04:36] <MattyMatt> they are the old way of making 3 phase from single, but you could have a 1 phase generator
[04:04:58] <MattyMatt> probably cheaper to get a 1kW Honda one, and use that for the spindle
[04:05:30] <XXCoder> honda one is a router?
[04:05:41] <MattyMatt> cunning plan #3, petrol spindle :)
[04:05:57] <XXCoder> lol
[04:06:10] <XXCoder> my end game is standard 52mm chinese spindle
[04:06:19] <XXCoder> not very expensive
[04:06:30] <XXCoder> just need to figure how to make adoptor for it.
[04:06:36] <XXCoder> can only hold 43mm dia now
[04:06:53] <MattyMatt> I nearly got one, until I realised they don't go much below 2000rpm. not good for metalwork
[04:07:11] <XXCoder> 2k is VERY slow compared with mine,.
[04:07:28] <MattyMatt> yeah I'm using a dremel and a router currently myself
[04:07:40] <XXCoder> mine is 13.5 times faster than 2k
[04:07:48] <MattyMatt> but I wanna do metal, so I need a real milling spindle now
[04:07:54] <XXCoder> and also max speed lol
[04:14:37] <enleth> it may be best to have two interchangeable spindles, it's not like you'd need the whoe range for a single job
[04:16:45] <XXCoder> enleth: yeah easy enogh to unbolt clamp and bolt another in
[04:17:01] <XXCoder> gonna solve odd single axis issues though
[04:22:06] <Sync> MattyMatt: well, the spindles work very well for metalwork, you just have to adjust the rest of your machining parameters to suit
[04:22:19] <XXCoder> if machine is fast enough
[04:22:36] <XXCoder> if I recall right, zeeshan|2 said need to be around 200 in/min for 2000 rpm
[04:22:47] <XXCoder> no, that was for 27,000
[04:22:52] <XXCoder> rpm
[05:37:30] <pink_vampire> i did some tests with linux cnc, and i saw that the probe screen some times make the program freeze. and the software go out of position.
[05:38:16] <witnit> If I already have this http://tinyurl.com/zxpl8e7 is there a type of this http://tinyurl.com/zqr9o7e I can buy to replace this http://tinyurl.com/gpze9bw
[05:38:32] <pink_vampire> I'm testing it buy running the same program over and over again, and then move it to zero.
[05:39:01] <pink_vampire> and from zero to known location.
[05:39:06] <XXCoder> that made me wonder if I could use old pc powerbox to power my tb6560
[05:39:11] <XXCoder> so it has more power
[05:39:26] <witnit> binford power supplys
[05:39:49] <witnit> pink_vampire: what kind of feedback are you using?
[05:40:20] <pink_vampire> almost every time the machine is off about 0.1to 1.5mm
[05:40:31] <pink_vampire> no feedback
[05:40:34] <witnit> does this also happen if you are making parts?
[05:40:36] <XXCoder> 1 x Power supply 350W/24V thats my power supply apparently
[05:40:47] <XXCoder> nema23s are all 3A
[05:40:52] <pink_vampire> i'm doing now the same thing with mach3
[05:41:06] <XXCoder> it should be plenty for all 3 but it gets off on Y
[05:41:10] <witnit> we would need, 5v 12v and 3.3 v
[05:41:14] <pink_vampire> and not it's the 5th time that it's doing that.
[05:41:29] <pink_vampire> and the maximum i got is 0.05mm off
[05:42:10] <witnit> pink if you wrote a program to make the machine go all the way to the extents and touch an indicator, then back a few more times would it stop in the same place each time?
[05:42:36] <pink_vampire> that mean that something is problematic with the probe screen in linux cnc, from some reason it make it go out of real time.
[05:42:38] <archivist> is your debounce time is too long
[05:43:20] <witnit> yeah sounds like it, maybe if you watch your cpu and framerate of glxgears while trying it out
[05:43:24] <pink_vampire> I don't use the debounce code.
[05:43:44] <witnit> you could see if there is a jump anywhere causing it to lose a step
[05:43:52] <pink_vampire> I'm talking about regulat stepconf configuration + probe screen
[05:44:10] <archivist> you and BF were adding that last night
[05:44:12] <pink_vampire> regular*
[05:44:19] <pink_vampire> I know
[05:44:32] <pink_vampire> and I removed it
[05:44:45] <pink_vampire> ang I'm not using the probe
[05:44:46] <archivist> I have no time for stepconf after initial setup
[05:44:52] <witnit> ^
[05:45:09] <witnit> its a wonderful tool though
[05:45:30] <pink_vampire> the problem is probe screen load vs no probe screen load.
[05:45:46] <pink_vampire> without the probe screen the machine run ok.
[05:45:48] <witnit> when i was first starting it really helped me understand the relationshop between the hardware and software
[05:46:12] <archivist> dont use the probe screen if you have not enabled and use a probe
[05:46:22] <pink_vampire> with the probe screen the linuc cnc software freeze some times.
[05:46:49] <archivist> seems a basic error in how you are using it
[05:46:51] <pink_vampire> archivist: I need a solution for probing.
[05:47:22] <pink_vampire> the code finished now on mach3
[05:47:28] <pink_vampire> one sec.
[05:47:46] <archivist> if you dont have the probe enabled in hal, how do you expect some screen to work right
[05:48:36] <pink_vampire> 0.01mm off!
[05:48:58] <pink_vampire> that just backlash
[05:49:25] <pink_vampire> archivist: the probe in linux cnc set to pin 11 in the lpt.
[05:49:55] <archivist> in hal, the external wiring does not concern me
[05:49:56] <pink_vampire> I just removed the debounce
[05:50:48] <archivist> are you now saying it is more accurate and working?
[05:50:51] <pink_vampire> and I'm talking about running the "linux cnc logo" code 10 times
[05:51:13] <pink_vampire> and each time to see if the machine is off in position or not.
[05:51:40] <archivist> your statements are not connected, very hard to help
[05:52:08] <pink_vampire> archivist: if I'm using the default settings (the stuff that I put in the back up with you)
[05:52:16] <XXCoder> oh yeah found a nice way to test my cnc machine drift. pen and repeative squares
[05:52:17] <pink_vampire> the machine work fine.
[05:52:20] <XXCoder> different sizes
[05:52:58] <XXCoder> whee writing code hej
[05:53:23] <pink_vampire> if I replace the linux cnc folder to the one with the probe screen (without the debounce) the machine never go back to the same place.
[05:53:36] <pink_vampire> it's off 0.1mm to 1.5mm
[05:53:59] <pink_vampire> so. something in the probe screen make the programe freeze.
[05:54:14] <pink_vampire> now I'm doing the same thing with mach 3
[05:54:28] <archivist> XXCoder, do the diamond square round cnc test
[05:54:28] <pink_vampire> and the machine work fine also.
[05:54:42] <XXCoder> archivist: thats even better! force 2 axis to move evenly.
[05:54:54] <XXCoder> I think I will do both squares and diamonds
[05:55:02] <XXCoder> single axis and dual
[05:55:05] <archivist> it is all in one test
[05:55:10] <pink_vampire> any Idea what can make the issue??
[05:55:29] <XXCoder> archivist: I know theres one special shape that tests all of those, squared circle something
[05:55:41] <XXCoder> it tests square, diamond, circle, and Z depth
[05:56:11] <archivist> pink_vampire, you are changing too much and not testing each part, and then asking us whats wrong, how can we guess
[05:56:39] <pink_vampire> archivist: the ONLY change is the probe screen !!!
[05:56:43] <pink_vampire> only!!!
[05:57:14] <pink_vampire> without it linux cnc work fine.
[05:57:17] <pink_vampire> ^^^
[05:57:52] <archivist> I dont have the probe screen you are talking about
[05:58:02] <XXCoder> do linuxcode require . in all position numbers?
[05:58:04] <XXCoder> say x0.
[05:58:20] <archivist> line numbers? no
[05:58:24] <pink_vampire> https://github.com/verser-git/probe_screen
[05:58:28] <XXCoder> (assuming non-decimal numbers)
[05:58:35] <pink_vampire> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/forum/49-basic-configuration/29187-work-with-probe
[05:58:42] <pink_vampire> archivist: that one ^^
[05:58:50] <pink_vampire> are you familiar with that??
[06:00:03] <archivist> no, I dont have it
[06:00:23] <pink_vampire> what are you using for probing?
[06:00:52] <pink_vampire> to find center and stuff like that?
[06:00:53] <archivist> a real CMM :)
[06:01:07] <pink_vampire> ok..
[06:01:19] <pink_vampire> if I want to make hole bigger..
[06:01:29] <archivist> I dont use probing on the 5 axis mill, as it is not really up to it
[06:01:46] <XXCoder> paper for me
[06:02:16] <archivist> cannot use standard probing on a gear cutter
[06:02:33] <pink_vampire> very small ball ones..
[06:02:58] <archivist> a 2mm ball is still too large
[06:03:10] <pink_vampire> what about 0.3mm
[06:03:30] <archivist> too large for a watch cutter
[06:03:45] <pink_vampire> point
[06:04:14] <archivist> needs to find the centre of the cutter
[06:04:15] <XXCoder> tools should match worker habit :)
[06:04:39] <archivist> and od and not damage the cutter
[06:05:04] <pink_vampire> probe the top, then the bottom
[06:05:29] <archivist> a camera is probably the way to go http://www.archivist.info/cnc/target.php
[06:05:47] <XXCoder> nice
[06:06:07] <archivist> that was back in 2008 when I was testing optical methods
[06:06:16] <XXCoder> I'm kind of stuck myself, I can't use edgefinder and sometimes I want to use center position
[06:06:25] <XXCoder> my machine is too small for dial test indictor too
[06:06:49] <pink_vampire> if the cutter is fixed you can probe it from each side.
[06:06:59] <XXCoder> I suppose best I can do is find edge on both sides then do math
[06:07:54] <pink_vampire> with 2 probes you can do that
[06:07:56] <archivist> measuring run out and effective size would help
[06:08:16] <pink_vampire> one probe is on the cutter side (probe the stock)
[06:08:49] <pink_vampire> the other probe is on the stock size probe the cutter
[06:08:50] <archivist> you have to realise how there is no space to work as well on a small job
[06:09:19] <pink_vampire> what is the diameter of the cutter?
[06:09:23] <XXCoder> too used to hugeass machines
[06:09:46] <archivist> smallest is about 8-10mm od
[06:10:05] <pink_vampire> I did probing on 4mm parts
[06:10:06] <archivist> with really small teeth
[06:10:13] <pink_vampire> no problem at all.
[06:10:30] <archivist> you dont realise the curves on the teeth
[06:10:55] <pink_vampire> but it's the same curve from each side...
[06:11:08] <pink_vampire> the cutter it's symmetric.
[06:11:27] <archivist> on a less well made cutter the sides are not identical
[06:12:42] <pink_vampire> what is the size of the teeth?
[06:13:30] <archivist> what people like me do is make one, measure the result, then adjust the machine and gcode make another, then you can get a good one
[06:14:17] <archivist> here the process has to be adjusted for each job, one size(method) does not fit all
[06:15:11] <XXCoder> is file extension imporyant to linuxcnc? I think its .NGC
[06:15:37] <archivist> it has a default extension you can change
[06:15:44] <jthornton> only to the file picker
[06:15:49] <XXCoder> what is default?
[06:15:55] <jthornton> .ngc
[06:15:58] <jthornton> lower case
[06:16:03] <XXCoder> thanks
[06:18:16] * jthornton wondes if his first guess at a Submakefile will work or die
[06:22:40] <XXCoder> bah
[06:22:59] <XXCoder> forgot to change z to move to next square/diamond lol gonna rewrite
[06:24:37] <pink_vampire> http://www.hindtechnology.com/
[06:24:40] <witnit> ok I think I got it if I use a condor 24vdc output and then a din rail dc to dc and dropdown to 12vdc and one of these http://www.amazon.com/M3-ATX-HV-95-Watt-Automotive-Carputer/dp/B005TWE636 I should be good
[06:24:46] <pink_vampire> what do you think about that?
[06:26:29] <witnit> whats the difference between "dedicated hardware" and a pc?
[06:26:46] <XXCoder> what the hell
[06:26:47] <XXCoder> http://cnc4pc.com/nema34-5-1-planetary-gearbox-4000rpm.html
[06:27:08] <witnit> lies
[06:27:21] <XXCoder> 4,000 rpm means it can act as spindle.
[06:27:27] <pink_vampire> maybe they load it to some FPGA and then run it.
[06:28:20] <pink_vampire> Max Input Speed: 4000 RPM
[06:28:34] <pink_vampire> XXCoder: ^
[06:28:49] <witnit> I dont think so, maybe im wrong, but at 4000 rpm it would get hot and melt down
[06:29:01] <XXCoder> yeah hence my "what the hell"
[06:30:02] <pink_vampire> 4000rpm is the maximum input, you need to divide it by 5 to get the output,
[06:30:02] <witnit> have you seen a spinea before?
[06:30:31] <pink_vampire> http://cnc4pc.com/motion-control/motion-controllers/hind-tech.html
[06:30:43] <pink_vampire> 480$
[06:31:05] <witnit> http://www.spinea.sk/products/twinspin/
[06:31:11] <witnit> look how compact those are
[06:31:17] <pink_vampire> http://cnc4pc.com/motion-control/motion-controllers/hind-tech/htg-cnc-controller.html
[06:31:20] <witnit> and they are intermittant duty
[06:31:21] <XXCoder> nice
[06:31:24] <XXCoder> very compact
[06:31:46] <XXCoder> I wonder if I can gear down my insanely fast spindle lol
[06:32:02] <pink_vampire> witnit: cycloid gear
[06:32:32] <pink_vampire> XXCoder: you can use O flute cutter
[06:32:58] <pink_vampire> or in other name "single flute cutter"
[06:33:40] <pink_vampire> or just move the machine faster
[06:35:50] <XXCoder> I wonder if I can do that weird solid rod cutting like that video
[06:36:06] <witnit> pink_vampire: I looked at the manual for that machine it seems an awful lot like a single board computer running that software
[06:36:21] <pink_vampire> link?
[06:39:33] <Sync> XXCoder: 4000 is not a lot for the planetary gearbox
[06:39:54] <XXCoder> isnt normal stepper max way below that?
[06:42:44] <pink_vampire> XXCoder: why do you want to reduce your spindle speed??
[06:44:19] <XXCoder> witnit: talking about speed, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mg4THnpbus lol
[06:44:30] <XXCoder> roughly 4 times faster than my spindle
[06:44:42] <XXCoder> literally makes holes in walls by sheer speed and metal bare rod
[06:45:04] <XXCoder> (around 1:35?)
[06:50:26] <pink_vampire> much3 almost finished the 8th time
[06:52:38] <pink_vampire> done!
[06:54:14] <witnit> he looked like he could harm himself quickly
[06:54:40] <XXCoder> yeah its spinning so fast that TOUCHING it would cause harm
[06:54:45] <XXCoder> dangerous.
[06:55:03] <witnit> oh wow those little gears ahahha
[06:55:42] <XXCoder> I remember one guy who just made PVC pipe windmill fans and bought it out to test it. well he was holding a spinning death machine. he mamaged to turn it (not easy to do) and slow it enough to stop
[06:56:07] <witnit> nope nope nope
[07:02:18] <pink_vampire> XXCoder: I have better idea for you
[07:02:34] <pink_vampire> but it will work only with universal motor.
[07:02:58] <malcom2073> Haha that mini turbine, wow
[07:03:21] <XXCoder> yeah. insane
[07:03:33] <XXCoder> telsa turboine is one of stuff I wanna try
[07:03:38] <malcom2073> Yeah me too
[07:03:48] <XXCoder> other is that "one way" liquid flow thingy
[07:03:52] <XXCoder> also by telsa.
[07:04:44] <pink_vampire> XXCoder: variac
[07:05:27] <malcom2073> I kinda want to make a windmill at some point
[07:05:32] <malcom2073> we get lots of steady strong wind here
[07:05:45] <pink_vampire> you can use it to slow down universal motors
[07:05:49] <XXCoder> lemme find you that video
[07:05:59] <XXCoder> not video, site
[07:06:26] <pink_vampire> http://www.ebay.com/bhp/variac
[07:06:41] <pink_vampire> XXCoder: ^
[07:09:44] <malcom2073> My dad is making a 4 ft in one direction 4 axis cnc for making gun stocks, would be good for making windmill blades too
[07:11:04] <XXCoder> cant find it
[07:12:01] <pink_vampire> malcom2073: way do you make windmill?
[07:12:10] <malcom2073> pink_vampire: I'd like to, I've not yet
[07:12:32] <pink_vampire> ok, but why?
[07:12:40] <XXCoder> found it!
[07:12:41] <XXCoder> http://www.mdpub.com/index.html
[07:12:48] <malcom2073> Because we get a lot of wind
[07:13:14] <XXCoder> he works out in nowhere
[07:13:28] <XXCoder> so he needs to make power so he made wind power, as well as solars so on
[07:14:44] <pink_vampire> the electricity bills are that high??
[07:15:06] <pink_vampire> I'm in NY and pay about 150$..
[07:15:37] <malcom2073> XXCoder: You jest, but we lost power for a couple weeks a year
[07:15:44] <malcom2073> lose*
[07:15:52] <XXCoder> malcom2073: no, he literally work in area with zero power
[07:15:56] <malcom2073> But really wind isn't reliable enough for that, but it'd be fun to play with none the less
[07:15:58] <XXCoder> it must be VERY dark
[07:16:05] <malcom2073> Oh your buddy
[07:16:10] <XXCoder> mnot my buddy
[07:16:13] <XXCoder> just like his site
[07:16:20] <malcom2073> Ah ok, I missed that
[07:16:29] <malcom2073> pink_vampire asked me why, and you said that :-P
[07:16:52] <pink_vampire> I mean just 150$
[07:16:58] <XXCoder> lol
[07:17:57] <malcom2073> I typically pay between $150-$300 depending on if I'm running heat/ac or not
[07:18:10] <malcom2073> But like I said, it's not really going to make any dent in that
[07:18:12] <malcom2073> it'd be fun to play with
[07:18:23] <enleth> $150 per what timeframe?
[07:18:30] <pink_vampire> month
[07:18:42] <archivist> far to high a bill
[07:18:53] <XXCoder> he finally did 12 inch surface
[07:19:33] <enleth> not cheap
[07:19:35] <pink_vampire> the internet cost more..
[07:19:58] <enleth> more? what speed is that?
[07:20:06] <malcom2073> heh, I pay $100 a month for my 1.5mbit
[07:20:10] <pink_vampire> 100
[07:20:13] <XXCoder> malcom2073: wind power would help for winters if you get windy winters
[07:20:27] <enleth> I'm paying $24 for 250Mbit down, 25 up
[07:20:29] <XXCoder> and solars for summer to cover AC usage (and bonus, it covers roof)
[07:20:31] <malcom2073> XXCoder: It's windy year round, I'm in the entrance of a valley
[07:20:42] <XXCoder> nice
[07:20:53] <XXCoder> even small one, year around will save you hundreds of bucks
[07:21:02] <malcom2073> enleth: You don't live in the USA :)
[07:21:05] <enleth> I guess this is what you get when you're first to deploy the Internet - you're the last to get upgrades
[07:21:09] <malcom2073> USA most everything is cheap, except internet oddly enough
[07:21:21] <pink_vampire> and cell
[07:21:22] <XXCoder> enleth: its always more expensive to upgrade
[07:21:28] <pink_vampire> and tv
[07:21:34] <malcom2073> cell phones are getting cheaper, $45 a month unlimited everything isn't bad
[07:21:38] <XXCoder> malcom2073: not health care hooboy, nor is college
[07:21:49] <pink_vampire> I pay 75$
[07:21:53] <malcom2073> XXCoder: Items, cars, fuel, food though
[07:21:53] <pink_vampire> :(
[07:22:18] <XXCoder> $45? where? my phone plan is unlimited everything but voice (special deaf plan) for $70
[07:22:23] <pink_vampire> XXCoder: ignore me?
[07:22:45] <enleth> and $150 for electricity would get me a solid 24/7 1kW
[07:22:53] <malcom2073> XXCoder: straight talk for one, but most all of the monthly services are $45 for unlimited
[07:22:59] <enleth> I mean, I'd have to sink that much to pay $150
[07:23:15] <archivist> I pay about £5 a year on mobile phone
[07:23:17] <XXCoder> "umlimited" usually means voice, data capped to say 2 gb
[07:23:36] <malcom2073> XXCoder: Nope.
[07:23:37] <XXCoder> I use exactly 0 minutes a year
[07:23:44] <pink_vampire> lol
[07:24:01] <pink_vampire> just video calls?
[07:24:10] <archivist> only a few minutes a year for me
[07:24:26] <XXCoder> my lifetime total is umm 5 seconds? all by accient
[07:24:35] <enleth> I'll be in the US in August for a few days and it looks like getting voice and internet on my phone without overpaying is going to be a very expensive PITA
[07:24:37] <pink_vampire> why XXCoderignor me??
[07:24:39] <malcom2073> I just switched to google wireless since I don't use data, $20 a month for unlimited talk and text, and all my data goes over wifi
[07:24:45] <pink_vampire> WTF
[07:24:51] <malcom2073> enleth: Buy a pay as you go phone, $45 for a single month
[07:25:07] <enleth> that's still overpaying for a 5 day trip
[07:25:12] <archivist> enleth, I think a local pay as you go phone would be a better option
[07:25:23] <malcom2073> Oh 5 days heh yeah. Get a service that allows calls over wifi?
[07:25:23] <pink_vampire> I did him something??
[07:25:35] <XXCoder> I found a umm shady service says free 4g data pay cheap for LTE and so on
[07:25:38] <malcom2073> pink_vampire: I wouldn't worry about it, he's weird sometimes.
[07:25:45] <XXCoder> I juyst dont trust that site
[07:26:06] <XXCoder> I'm JUST weird? bah
[07:26:10] <malcom2073> :-P
[07:26:12] <enleth> well, I might just get a data-only card somehow and use google voice or something for calls
[07:26:18] <malcom2073> pink_vampire: So he doesn't have you ignored, he's just ignoring you
[07:26:25] <pink_vampire> malcom2073: ok.. but why he ignore me for no reason ?
[07:26:36] <malcom2073> Don't ask me :)
[07:27:10] <MattyMatt> Sync, don't lots of fast shallow passes increase your tooling costs? an 1/8" endmill costs as least as much as a 1/4"
[07:27:13] <archivist> I dont phone home when abroad :)
[07:27:22] <pink_vampire> I just don't get it..
[07:27:31] <Jymmm> enleth: How's $50 USD
[07:27:40] <Jymmm> ?
[07:27:41] <Sync> not really MattyMatt
[07:28:08] <Sync> you can also use hsm tactics to use bigger endmills at higher spindle speeds in flimsy machines
[07:28:26] <enleth> Jymmm: that's more than I'm paying a month for unlimited *everything* for two phones here
[07:28:44] <XXCoder> usa cellular is bit high priced
[07:28:51] <XXCoder> in least usa prices arent canada
[07:28:56] <XXCoder> they dont allow unlimited at all
[07:29:01] <Jymmm> enleth: This is NO CONTRACT
[07:29:04] <XXCoder> last I read few years ago
[07:29:32] <malcom2073> Jymmm: phone contracts are predominantly USA thing afaik
[07:29:45] <pink_vampire> XXCoder: there is no real "unlimited" even in the us.
[07:29:50] <Jymmm> malcom2073: Yes, I know.
[07:29:56] <XXCoder> and phones that work only with certain telco
[07:30:10] <MattyMatt> I'm gonna try some wood router bits at 30krpm in aluminium for shits and giggles, but I'm expecting to blunt them
[07:30:14] <Jymmm> malcom2073: Thought he was planning on traveling to USA and needed a USA phone#
[07:30:24] <pink_vampire> XXCoder: the maximum that I found was 20GB.
[07:30:27] <XXCoder> MattyMatt: 1 flute at high speed
[07:30:28] <enleth> Jymmm: I have a contract I can terminate at will with no penalties
[07:30:57] <Sync> well MattyMatt as long as you keep your cutting parameters reasonable, you're fine
[07:31:02] <XXCoder> I think I has few 1 flutes I gonna try on my plastic project too (gage holder)
[07:31:18] <enleth> technically there's a 50GB cap in there somewhere, but it's not like I'm coming anywhere near that and even if I exceed it, the speed limit they impose is something reasonable
[07:32:32] <pink_vampire> why XXCoder ignoring me??
[07:32:53] <Tom_itx> why do i care?
[07:33:07] <MattyMatt> I wish I had the bottle to cut alu on my table saw. afaics it'd work and needn't be deadly
[07:33:07] <pink_vampire> I care
[07:33:42] <MattyMatt> but "is this deadly" is not really a question I wanna ask empirically too often
[07:34:16] <Jymmm> pink_vampire: Damn, you've aksed that at least 5 times now, WE DO NOT KNOW... as him.
[07:34:31] <malcom2073> aksed!
[07:34:45] <pink_vampire> Jymmm: any idea how to ask him if he ignore me...
[07:35:09] <malcom2073> pink_vampire: You can't.
[07:35:13] <malcom2073> He can read your text
[07:35:15] <pink_vampire> and I don't know even why..
[07:35:17] <malcom2073> he's just not responding to it.
[07:35:18] <malcom2073> So stop asking us
[07:35:20] <malcom2073> and ask him in private.
[07:35:21] <Jymmm> dont know, dont care
[07:35:29] <XXCoder> malcom2073: actually, some clients can filyer
[07:35:33] <XXCoder> *filter
[07:35:44] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, that's the spirit
[07:35:45] <malcom2073> If he doesn't respond, keep asking, eventually he'll respond.
[07:35:49] <pink_vampire> so, why ?
[07:36:02] <malcom2073> pink_vampire: *in private*
[07:36:05] <malcom2073> Eg: Not here.
[07:36:14] <XXCoder> malcom2073: nope her text does not even show up
[07:36:18] <pink_vampire> I already tried that
[07:36:21] <Tom_itx> yeah stop polluting the channel
[07:36:23] <malcom2073> pink_vampire: Keep trying.
[07:36:36] <malcom2073> And stop asking here, it's annoying and will lead to more people ignoring you
[07:36:48] <Tom_itx> or being banned
[07:36:53] <malcom2073> Or quitting heh
[07:36:56] <Tom_itx> or better yet just quit
[07:37:08] <malcom2073> So XXCoder, spill the beans, what'd she do this time?
[07:37:18] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: more liked muzzled than banned
[07:37:25] <XXCoder> just got tired of her not understanding stuff
[07:37:31] <Tom_itx> yeah well you're a woosie
[07:37:34] <XXCoder> and refusal to do actual research
[07:37:34] <malcom2073> Aww, was hoping it was something more amusing
[07:37:36] <Tom_itx> i'd ban
[07:37:38] <Tom_itx> :D
[07:37:48] <Jymmm> XXCoder: <-- Fucking wuss ;)
[07:38:05] <XXCoder> nah just has enough problems without adding more
[07:38:15] <XXCoder> I'm BORN with 5 problems
[07:38:33] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: have at it!
[07:38:44] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: too slow biotch!
[07:39:06] <Tom_itx> when i joined the channel it was more like the dev channel where you asked questions after you'd done your own research and still couldn't figure it out
[07:39:24] <Tom_itx> now it's becoming more like every other irc channel
[07:39:38] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: WHY ARE YOU IGNORING ME?! HUH???? HUH??? HUH???
[07:39:49] <XXCoder> #cnc would be better channel for usual cnc machine questions
[07:39:51] <malcom2073> Tom_itx: Too many people like me here, who answer questiosn rather than just blindly yelling "GOOGLE IT MOFO"
[07:39:56] <XXCoder> except its VERY dead
[07:40:16] <Tom_itx> XXCoder this is probably why
[07:40:34] <enleth> and there isn't really any place to just chat with people who dabble in machining
[07:40:45] <Tom_itx> Jymmm i make a good op/founder
[07:41:10] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: =)
[07:41:28] <XXCoder> I have to admit I'm no machinist genius
[07:41:33] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I don't, thus why I have disabled auto-op ;)
[07:41:34] <XXCoder> but I did succeed so far
[07:41:37] <Tom_itx> since ~90
[07:42:08] <enleth> I haven't really started retrofitting my mill with mesa yet, but it's just nice to hang out here and participate in machining discussion. that might give the impression that it's OK to ask away even if some homework is in order
[07:42:25] <XXCoder> anyway malcom2073 link I linked to bit ago has PVC pipe fans
[07:42:33] <XXCoder> and later modification after it broke lol
[07:42:34] <malcom2073> Yeah I was reading through it
[07:42:42] <Jymmm> XXCoder: pvc fns?
[07:42:48] <XXCoder> yeah
[07:42:53] <XXCoder> made from pvc pipe
[07:42:53] <Jymmm> O_o
[07:43:13] <XXCoder> enjoy. Jymmm http://www.mdpub.com/Wind_Turbine/index.html
[07:44:17] <jthornton> hmm make seems to be working
[07:45:38] <jthornton> well almost
[07:47:09] <Jymmm> XXCoder: This is off that link... http://www.yourgreendream.com/diy_pvc_blades.php
[07:47:30] <XXCoder> nice, never did look at source
[07:47:38] <Jymmm> XXCoder: I see a BIG design flaw that could be easily resolved
[07:47:50] <Jymmm> XXCoder: neither did I, it's in the body
[07:47:58] <Jymmm> ofthe page
[07:48:20] <XXCoder> cool
[07:48:36] <Jymmm> XXCoder: The mounting point is way too narrow
[07:48:46] <XXCoder> why do you ding me each time?
[07:49:00] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Cause you're .... special
[07:49:09] <XXCoder> yay I get to ride on short bus
[07:49:19] <Jymmm> s/on/under/
[07:49:28] <XXCoder> http://imcdb.org/i082757.jpg
[07:49:46] <Jymmm> Shit, I want it
[07:50:03] <Jymmm> thatbe cool to drive around
[07:50:16] <XXCoder> yeah DRIVER is immune to labels
[07:50:29] <XXCoder> sad on your wife and kids though ;)
[07:50:40] <Jymmm> lmao
[07:50:51] <XXCoder> think that bus was made for movie
[07:51:02] <XXCoder> maybe dumb and dumber dunno
[07:51:13] <Jymmm> Nah, you just play on it.... "Da short party bus yo!"
[07:51:35] <Jymmm> lil bling bling
[07:51:44] <Jymmm> skirt kit
[07:51:49] <XXCoder> other kind of short bus https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/c8/b0/da/c8b0da9891fb8440d8ddb9e1a626117c.jpg
[07:52:04] <Jymmm> See, there ya go!
[07:53:27] <Jymmm> XXCoder: You take a stereotype and just run with it ;)
[07:53:38] <XXCoder> lol
[07:53:55] <Jymmm> (theres a word for it that I cant recall atm)
[07:54:17] <Jymmm> you take something and just blow it all out of porpotion
[08:08:33] <witnit> If I were to do an epp mesa card and go header to header with the motherboard (subtract the db25 connectors) Would the header just be a plain header/header cable?
[08:10:56] <witnit> I can figure this out myself, but if anyone happens to know offhand cough pcw cough
[08:11:05] <malcom2073> Haha, wide bus
[08:11:43] <witnit> better than the shortbus amirite?!
[08:11:56] <XXCoder> its also short heh
[08:12:03] <witnit> -_-
[08:12:15] <XXCoder> so
[08:12:25] <XXCoder> we have short in X direction, and short in Z direction
[08:12:31] <XXCoder> where is short bus in Y direction heh
[08:14:38] <Polymorphism> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JF3K-98kQ4Q
[08:14:42] <Polymorphism> how much for a machine like this???
[08:15:14] <XXCoder> very cheap
[08:15:19] <Polymorphism> excellent
[08:15:20] <witnit> value or cost?
[08:15:26] <XXCoder> yeah if you're a goverment
[08:15:26] <Polymorphism> cost
[08:15:26] <witnit> ;)
[08:16:13] <jthornton> make built the file and put is in bin but now I have a data directory puzzle lol
[08:21:38] <witnit> http://pasteboard.co/Ke68Dc7.jpg
[08:21:45] <witnit> a tiny vise makes this job really nice
[08:22:52] <witnit> http://pasteboard.co/Kebbmr0.jpg
[08:23:10] <jthornton> I use a paper slicer to cut 50 pin cables
[08:23:21] <XXCoder> very short
[08:23:44] <witnit> oooh that sounds better, I have more troubles squaring the clip
[08:23:52] <witnit> so if its straight edge to go from
[08:23:55] <witnit> im good
[08:24:17] <jthornton> yea the paper cutter gives a nice square edge
[08:25:06] * jthornton goes to check on break fast
[08:25:13] <archivist> I use a scalpel after the clamping in a vice
[10:22:12] <maxcnc> hi all
[10:22:22] <maxcnc> 30deg outside the shop
[10:22:30] <maxcnc> full sun today
[10:24:33] <maxcnc> Polymorphism: 50k +
[10:25:35] <maxcnc> ok im off have a nice weekend dont break to many bits at the weekend work
[10:25:40] <maxcnc> Gn8
[10:27:02] <zeeshan|2> does this irritate anyone else
[10:27:19] <zeeshan|2> a lot of cnc milling vises dont have any features on the jaw faces to allow repeatable mounting of soft vise jaws?
[10:28:57] <witnit> and with that statement, zeeshan vice enterprises was created
[10:29:02] <zeeshan|2> rofl
[10:29:09] <malcom2073> Wouldn't it be reasonably trivial to make something to do so, only losing an inch or so of clamping range?
[10:29:23] <zeeshan|2> orange vise comes with provisions to mount reindexable jaws
[10:29:34] <zeeshan|2> malcom2073: i was thinking dowels in the hard jaws
[10:29:38] <zeeshan|2> or even a key slot
[10:29:38] <malcom2073> zeeshan|2: Yeah
[10:29:46] <zeeshan|2> so you dont lose much travel
[10:29:59] <zeeshan|2> or just have the holes there in the hard jaws
[10:30:02] <zeeshan|2> and put the dowels in the soft
[10:30:08] <zeeshan|2> (might be annoying)
[10:30:13] <witnit> ball and joint? easy to move
[10:30:54] <malcom2073> Sounds like maybe that's a jaw feature, not a vise feature
[10:31:02] <malcom2073> So... design a better hard jaw
[10:31:07] <zeeshan|2> for example
[10:31:11] <zeeshan|2> http://www.sowatool.com/img/productpdf/H3.pdf
[10:31:19] <zeeshan|2> the gs plain modular vises have a little taper
[10:32:09] <zeeshan|2> i dunno how ill modify the vise jaw
[10:32:11] <zeeshan|2> theyre hard as fak
[10:32:46] <malcom2073> Don't modify it, make your own, they're bolt on yeah?
[10:33:09] <malcom2073> Make your own then get it hardened
[10:33:20] <zeeshan|2> not a bad idea
[10:33:38] <zeeshan|2> theyll need grinding after hardening tho =/
[10:33:51] <malcom2073> Hmm true, don't have a surface grinder?
[10:33:55] <zeeshan|2> no :(
[10:34:15] <malcom2073> Make me a set, and I'll surface grind yours for free :-P
[10:34:21] <archivist> leave them soft, cheaper to replace mod at a moments notice
[10:36:15] <malcom2073> True
[10:36:39] <zeeshan|2> make a new vise from scatch?
[10:36:40] <zeeshan|2> lol
[10:36:54] <malcom2073> No, jaws
[10:37:19] <malcom2073> Though tbh, if you're fixturing, there are proably better ways than using a vise
[10:37:45] <zeeshan|2> i got a job where itd be nice to get two vises
[10:37:50] <zeeshan|2> the job will pay for the vises
[10:37:54] <zeeshan|2> its long slender parts
[10:38:11] <malcom2073> I'm waiting for my dad to buy a second vise, so I can get his old one and have two heh
[10:38:51] <zeeshan|2> are they the same brand/model?
[10:38:54] <zeeshan|2> they gotta be matched
[10:39:00] <zeeshan|2> unless youre planning to match them :P
[10:39:50] <archivist> simple enough to make a special vice for long thin parts
[10:39:55] <witnit> if its a long slender part I wonder if you could drop it into a piece of channel U shaped iron and cross tap holes to make a clamp and then lock it to the area in the middle
[10:40:02] <malcom2073> Don't have to be matched, not for what I'm doing
[10:41:23] <archivist> last time I did it I just used a long piece of square bar, milled a thickness of part out of a corner mounted a screwplate to clamp part
[10:41:52] <zeeshan|2> witnit: easier to buy two vises :P
[10:44:42] <archivist> standard vices can be too large for some slender parts
[10:45:37] <malcom2073> Especially the itty bitty parts you do
[10:46:03] <Sync> zeeshan|2: I got 2 fribosa grinding vises
[10:46:27] <Sync> they are within 3µm height wise
[10:49:55] <zeeshan|2> nice
[11:08:55] <gregcnc> if you touch off the jaw when you make the jaw, what else do you need?
[11:09:52] <zeeshan|2> ??
[11:09:58] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 add dowels if you want em
[11:10:07] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: ill send the jaws to you
[11:10:15] <zeeshan|2> drill and ream them for me
[11:10:15] <zeeshan|2> :)
[11:10:17] <Tom_itx> or machine your softjaws to fit the bottom and align with the bolt holes
[11:10:25] <zeeshan|2> doesnt work
[11:10:29] <zeeshan|2> tried that
[11:10:41] <zeeshan|2> thers no side-side location
[11:11:04] <zeeshan|2> maybe its time to buy orange vises
[11:11:07] <zeeshan|2> but fak, 2k each
[11:11:15] <Tom_itx> oh stop whining
[11:11:25] <zeeshan|2> i want the jaws to click in place
[11:11:39] <Tom_itx> magnetic jaws!
[11:11:40] <BeachBumPete> this must be the umpteenth time zeeshan has posed an enormously vague question and then amused himself for an hour or two while everyone TRIES to figure out just what the hell he is doing. Kinda annoying...
[11:11:59] <zeeshan|2> BeachBumPete: it looks like florida has caused you to lose even more brain cells
[11:12:15] <BeachBumPete> if you say so
[11:12:17] <gregcnc> I think Carvesmart does that
[11:12:26] <Tom_itx> this from the extreme north to the extreme south
[11:12:43] <BeachBumPete> perhaps his cells are frozen solid?
[11:12:49] <Tom_itx> perhaps
[11:12:55] <zeeshan|2> gregcnc: those look nice
[11:13:48] <zeeshan|2> i wonder why a dove tail
[11:13:51] <zeeshan|2> and not a slot
[11:14:05] <gregcnc> aren't you an engineer?
[11:14:17] <zeeshan|2> thats why im questioning
[11:14:18] <zeeshan|2> :P
[11:14:45] <zeeshan|2> i dont see why they want to pull the vise jaw back
[11:14:50] <zeeshan|2> doesnt clamping do that for you..
[11:15:02] <gregcnc> what clamping?
[11:15:30] <zeeshan|2> when you clamp the vise together
[11:15:35] <zeeshan|2> it pushes the jaws together..
[11:15:43] <gregcnc> OK
[11:16:10] <zeeshan|2> dove tail = requires special cutter, slot = regular end mill
[11:16:15] <zeeshan|2> so not sure why the dovetail
[11:16:21] <zeeshan|2> :P
[11:17:22] <gregcnc> try it
[11:17:53] <zeeshan|2> https://youtu.be/S5p4m2qT0-o?t=189
[11:17:54] <zeeshan|2> hmmmmmmm
[11:18:39] <gregcnc> you buy carvesmart jaw blanks by the foot as long as you want
[11:21:25] <gregcnc> you can have bothhttps://www.instagram.com/p/BCfdv2vJGRQ/
[11:21:42] <zeeshan|2> okay
[11:21:43] <gregcnc> https://www.instagram.com/p/BCfdv2vJGRQ/
[11:21:44] <zeeshan|2> that has me sold
[11:21:52] <zeeshan|2> i love how the clamping mechanism is built into the jaw
[11:22:03] <zeeshan|2> so you dont sacrafice workholding range
[11:23:08] <zeeshan|2> https://youtu.be/S5p4m2qT0-o?t=214
[11:23:09] <zeeshan|2> this is what i want
[11:23:11] <zeeshan|2> click
[11:23:13] <gregcnc> I may try something like orange/chick in a tiny 2" vise
[11:23:17] <zeeshan|2> two bolts access from the top
[11:23:20] <zeeshan|2> for each jaw and good to go
[11:23:36] <zeeshan|2> i'll spend the extra time and and effort in making the jaw
[11:23:52] <zeeshan|2> as long as i am 100% sure that it is where it was relative to the vise when i first machined the jaws
[11:24:55] <gregcnc> Chick is also like this
[11:25:06] <zeeshan|2> how much is the chick
[11:25:16] <gregcnc> dunno, but they are aluminum body
[11:27:40] <zeeshan|2> hmm the orange is more low profile
[11:27:54] <gregcnc> for sure
[11:30:58] <zeeshan|2> gregcnc: have you see the orange vise irl?
[11:31:09] <gregcnc> no
[11:33:18] <zeeshan|2> i cant see from their website what the maximum jaw opening is :P
[11:34:01] <Tom_itx> download their model silly
[11:34:17] <gregcnc> quite a bit, you can mount the stationary jaw at the end
[11:34:27] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: link?
[11:34:35] <Tom_itx> google it
[11:34:39] <Tom_itx> gotta go...
[11:38:29] <Sync> oh, zeeshan|2 unexpected usefulness of the faro arm
[11:38:54] <Sync> just measured all flange patterns I have on hand for the mitsubishi headers
[11:40:47] <zeeshan|2> Sync: im so jealous man
[11:40:53] <zeeshan|2> i used to have access to one
[11:41:00] <zeeshan|2> can i borrow it?
[11:41:03] <zeeshan|2> i want to model the rx7 engine bay
[11:41:08] <zeeshan|2> :)
[11:41:11] <Sync> sure
[11:41:18] <zeeshan|2> whats the reach?
[11:41:22] <Sync> long
[11:41:22] <zeeshan|2> ill seriously pay to borrow it :)
[11:41:38] <Sync> I think it'll do 1.2m radius
[11:41:53] <archivist> make one, get a few encoders and some bamboo
[11:41:53] <zeeshan|2> thats more than plenty for an engine bay
[11:42:00] <zeeshan|2> archivist: no point
[11:42:04] <zeeshan|2> faro arm is baller
[11:42:08] <zeeshan|2> you can link it in solidworks
[11:42:11] <zeeshan|2> and model on the fly with it
[11:42:26] <zeeshan|2> like you press c for circle
[11:42:35] <zeeshan|2> and then it asks to you to touch at least 3 points
[11:42:40] <archivist> accuracy is about near enough for that sort of car :)
[11:42:50] <zeeshan|2> and itll make a circle for you, then you round up the number to a nominal size
[11:43:30] <Sync> ah, I might have to install a SW version to do that, NX doesn't have integration for them
[11:43:57] <Sync> archivist: the resolution you need for an arm like that is suprisingly high
[11:44:28] <archivist> I know, I remember asking about accuracy at one of the shows
[11:44:32] <Sync> faro uses 2000 line encoders with interpolation
[11:44:45] <zeeshan|2> we were measuring within 5 tenths no problem
[11:45:05] <archivist> of a mile
[11:45:24] <zeeshan|2> archivist: hav eyou used one?
[11:45:45] <zeeshan|2> http://s130.photobucket.com/user/turbozee84/library/work_abba_systems?sort=3&page=1
[11:45:47] <zeeshan|2> can you guys see this page?
[11:46:13] <archivist> no, Icanhazbrownandsharpe random accuracy CMM
[11:46:30] <zeeshan|2> you cant compare the two
[11:46:37] <zeeshan|2> youre comparing 3 dof with 6 dof
[11:46:40] <zeeshan|2> :P
[11:46:47] <zeeshan|2> both have their applications
[11:47:49] <Sync> yeah mine is older but eh, for reverse engineering it works
[11:48:57] <archivist> zeeshan|2, not just the dof it is also the bendy poles stacked
[11:50:04] <CaptHindsight> is Faro still selling those arms for $50k and up?
[11:50:13] <zeeshan|2> Sync: http://imgur.com/a/Kru4e
[11:50:16] <zeeshan|2> from 2006
[11:50:18] <zeeshan|2> my first job :)
[11:50:38] <Sync> yeah the 7 axis ones are neater
[11:50:42] <Sync> yes CaptHindsight
[11:50:51] <Sync> I want a laz0r one, but eh
[11:50:54] <Sync> got mine cheap enough
[11:51:35] <zeeshan|2> some of those holes require a thou tolerance for locational position
[11:51:38] <zeeshan|2> worked well
[11:51:56] <SpeedEvil> Wait - does oldjob exist - I thought he was killed before he got old.
[11:52:25] <zeeshan|2> sync do you think that'd be abetter option?
[11:52:30] <zeeshan|2> laser scanning the engine bay?
[11:52:58] <zeeshan|2> i want +/- 0.015 thou
[11:54:50] <flyback> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZhMfzc9RbU <--- HSN ladder fail
[11:54:54] <flyback> and zeeshan|2
[11:54:56] <flyback> BMCC
[11:55:27] <Sync> aha romer also uses HH encoders
[11:55:37] <Sync> zeeshan|2: with a laser scanner on a faro? sure
[11:55:39] <zeeshan|2> lol flyback
[11:55:40] <zeeshan|2> HAHA
[11:55:54] <zeeshan|2> Sync: i wonder if i can rent it from somewhere
[11:57:10] <zeeshan|2> how much was yours btw?
[12:04:36] <Frank__17> u guys use home made machines or indstrial/production machines =?
[12:04:44] <zeeshan|2> botjh
[12:04:46] <Frank__17> lets do machine show off (?)
[12:04:52] <zeeshan|2> no
[12:04:53] <zeeshan|2> :P
[12:05:30] <Frank__17> T_T
[12:07:43] <Sync> you probably can zeeshan|2
[12:08:09] <zeeshan|2> use the faro arm to model the faro arm
[12:08:12] <zeeshan|2> and send me the drawings :)
[12:08:14] <zeeshan|2> lol
[12:08:45] <Frank__17> anyone has any kind of experience with panasonic servos?
[12:08:46] <Sync> they are very basic
[12:09:12] <zeeshan|2> how many encoders?
[12:09:12] <Sync> two taper roller bearings + 2000 ppr encoder per axis
[12:09:14] <Sync> 6
[12:09:20] <zeeshan|2> hmm
[12:09:35] <zeeshan|2> its been a while since ive used one
[12:09:40] <zeeshan|2> but i remember you could stiffen it in a position
[12:09:43] <zeeshan|2> like an indicator arm
[12:09:52] <zeeshan|2> or was it always dangly
[12:09:53] <zeeshan|2> i dont remember
[12:10:09] <Sync> they always are floppy
[12:10:12] <zeeshan|2> ah
[12:10:35] <Sync> huge spring in the base
[12:10:52] <Sync> to keep the 2nd axis gravity assisted
[12:12:37] <Sync> the main problem is that you need encoders that output cos/sin
[12:12:48] <zeeshan|2> like the heidenhain
[12:14:12] <Sync> yeah. no idea what they cost in that variant tho
[12:14:23] <zeeshan|2> prolly 100 bux each
[12:14:26] <zeeshan|2> used :P
[12:14:29] <Sync> yeah
[12:14:33] <Sync> I have not found them used
[12:14:38] <Sync> as they are without case
[12:17:48] <Sync> I wonder what the netzer ones cost
[12:18:07] <Sync> they get 21bit
[12:20:42] <Sync> http://sync-hv.de/projects/berger_lahr/ zeeshan|2
[12:21:32] <zeeshan|2> that doesnt look simple man
[12:21:32] <zeeshan|2> lol
[12:21:37] <zeeshan|2> at least to me
[12:22:28] <Sync> berger lahr multiturn abs shits
[12:22:30] <Sync> it is very simple
[12:23:05] <Sync> capacitive encoder, pretty cool imho
[12:23:17] <Sync> netzer uses the same principle
[12:23:52] <Sync> http://www.evrtp.com/images/netzer/rotary_tech_3part.jpg yup
[12:23:55] <Sync> it is a netzer
[12:23:56] <Sync> seksi
[12:24:34] <Sync> http://kb-rs.ru/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/KBRS-IRS-E70-capacitive-encoder.jpg
[12:27:11] <archivist> that last image reminds me of the one in a cheap angle measuring device
[12:27:13] <zeeshan|2> fancy
[12:28:49] <archivist> I had a faulty one something like http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GEMRED-360-DEGREE-DIGITAL-ANGLE-RULE-RULER-FINDER-PROTRACTOR-/181408422405
[12:28:52] <Sync> gotta reverse that shiet
[12:28:58] <archivist> had to explore inside
[12:29:04] <Sync> they work similarily
[12:29:15] <gregcnc> what do those cost? cui make cheap capacitive encoders
[12:32:56] <Sync> well they are not at the same level
[12:33:01] <Sync> cui give you 12bits
[12:33:48] <gregcnc> inkow
[12:34:51] <Sync> I have no idea what the netzers cost
[12:34:54] <Sync> http://www.google.com/patents/US6492911
[12:38:11] <pcw_home> occasionally Fanuc 24 bit encoders show up on Ebay...
[12:48:06] <pcw_home> Not seen any cheap Renishaw Resolute encoders around though
[13:56:51] <zeeshan|2> gregcnc: i forget, have you use miteebite clamps before?
[13:56:55] <zeeshan|2> the uniforce by any chance
[14:00:16] <Sync> zeeshan|2: get a lang vise
[14:00:24] <zeeshan|2> i aint rich :P
[14:00:53] <Sync> you said the jerb would pay for it
[14:01:44] <zeeshan|2> its not paying that much!
[14:01:44] <zeeshan|2> lol
[14:04:19] <Sync> they are cheaper than the orange ones
[14:04:30] <zeeshan|2> orange one im looking at is 1400
[14:04:35] <zeeshan|2> i was confusing it with the double station
[14:04:37] <zeeshan|2> those are too big
[14:04:39] <Sync> langs are 1.5
[14:12:38] <archivist> mill a cheap jig, more profit for toys
[14:33:04] <Wolf_> zeeshan|2: !
[14:33:12] <zeeshan|2> hi
[14:33:41] <Wolf_> you know some stuff about eaton products right?
[14:33:50] <zeeshan|2> depends on what
[14:33:59] <zeeshan|2> vfds, breakers, switchgears, hmi
[14:34:01] <zeeshan|2> mostly for me
[14:34:22] <Wolf_> stupid toggle switch for a bobcat skid loader lol
[14:34:57] <Wolf_> one has a 9311 on it, other is a 9310…
[14:35:58] <Wolf_> well, not toggle, rocker style
[14:36:41] <zeeshan|2> got a pic?
[14:36:53] <Sync> wat
[14:37:08] <Sync> crooks, 78$ shipping for a probe for the faro arm
[14:37:12] <Wolf_> not really the contact half and the rocker half are in two parts lol
[14:37:20] <Sync> wtf is wrong with usps
[14:37:30] <zeeshan|2> https://www.google.ca/search?q=eaton+rocker+switches&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=1109&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjkr-m71cjMAhXELMAKHYmgAqcQ_AUIBigB
[14:37:32] <zeeshan|2> which one?
[14:37:33] <zeeshan|2> :P
[14:37:34] <Wolf_> Sync: size?
[14:38:05] <zeeshan|2> https://www.waytekwire.com/products/6/Eaton-Rocker-Switches/
[14:38:06] <zeeshan|2> :P
[14:38:17] <zeeshan|2> ive never seen those before at work lol
[14:38:21] <zeeshan|2> only industrial stuff
[14:38:42] <Wolf_> zeeshan|2: http://www.electronicsurplus.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/small_image/200x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/2/0/2090-1.JPG
[14:38:49] <Wolf_> sorta like that
[14:39:21] <archivist> last CK switch
[14:41:33] <Sync> Wolf_: smaller than your index finger
[14:41:53] <Wolf_> Sync: lol yeah, thats kinda messed up
[14:42:26] <Sync> idk what the options would be
[14:43:49] <zeeshan|2> havent seen that before
[14:44:04] <Sync> or if there is actually something cheaper for overseas from the us
[14:44:41] <archivist> plastic version http://www.ebay.com/itm/Right-Angle-PCB-C-K-J-Series-Rocker-Switch-SPDT-6Amp-/160578787763
[14:45:59] <Wolf_> http://i.imgur.com/R7Xe7Qv.jpg
[14:46:45] <archivist> that is a lot bigger than the cK picture :)
[14:47:41] <Wolf_> worst part is I don’t know which are momentary or latching
[14:48:32] <zeeshan|2> it says eaton 9311 on it?
[14:49:02] <Wolf_> 9311 on one, 9310 on the other
[14:49:25] <Wolf_> its out of the control grip on the skid loader
[14:50:08] <zeeshan|2> the ERP doesnt show anything :P
[14:50:21] <Wolf_> fun lol
[14:51:12] <Wolf_> guess I need to pull out the wiring schematics and see whats called out on the switches and then find something I can stuff back in the grips to make things work
[14:53:06] <archivist> 9310, made in october 1993
[14:54:43] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/5kYDO54.png
[14:54:51] <zeeshan|2> trying to design new way to hold these vapes
[14:55:04] <zeeshan|2> something tells me i dont think this is working the way i think its supposed to :P
[14:55:12] <Wolf_> archivist: where did ya find that? lol
[14:55:25] <zeeshan|2> 1993 10
[14:55:27] <archivist> find what?
[14:55:27] <zeeshan|2> :P
[14:55:46] <archivist> it is a common marking on components
[14:55:46] <Wolf_> oh nm lol date code...
[14:56:29] <Wolf_> never seen date codes on switches
[14:57:50] <archivist> I usually confirm date code by looking on a variety of parts on the thing
[15:00:01] <Wolf_> well, bobcat 853 1990-1994 =/
[15:01:13] <archivist> possibly a good guess :)
[15:01:53] <Wolf_> yup, dammit lol
[15:08:37] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/aianv7v.png
[15:08:39] <zeeshan|2> think this will work? :p
[15:09:31] <archivist> not sure which what why in that image
[15:10:24] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/WAA8Ngi.png
[15:10:28] <zeeshan|2> only showing 2 of the clamp fingers there
[15:11:18] <zeeshan|2> trying to make it as simple as possible
[15:11:27] <zeeshan|2> with the possiblity of reversing the grips
[15:11:37] <zeeshan|2> that was the major fail on my last grip
[15:11:44] <zeeshan|2> it gripped well, but it didnt ungrip :)
[15:11:47] <zeeshan|2> was a pain to remove
[15:13:23] <archivist> I think those will be falling out and more of a pain, re engineer mk 1, to spring in properly for removal
[15:13:43] <zeeshan|2> i have a clearance fit between them and the base
[15:13:51] <zeeshan|2> and was going to grease them to add some "stick"
[15:14:07] <zeeshan|2> mk1 took a lot of time to machine too, which was another fair
[15:14:14] <zeeshan|2> this one i think i can pop out in 1 1/2 hours
[15:14:30] <zeeshan|2> ill outsource the fingers to waterjet
[15:15:09] <zeeshan|2> archivist: another reason to try this is because ive never done it
[15:15:15] <zeeshan|2> i like playing with mechanisms!
[15:15:29] <zeeshan|2> but my gut feeling is saying that mk1 had a stronger grip
[15:16:28] <archivist> think of a taper lock bush, use two tapers with spring/s to force apart for release
[15:18:56] <t12> hi
[15:19:06] <zeeshan|2> taper lock bush has part of it threaded in the parent material though?
[15:19:11] <CaptHindsight> ji ji
[15:19:22] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: still talking about dovetail jaws?
[15:19:26] <zeeshan|2> XXCoder: no
[15:19:42] <XXCoder> okay, disconnected and missed some heh
[15:19:47] <archivist> mistake of many taper locks, is the release, usually not made to be quick
[15:19:59] <zeeshan|2> archivist: whatcha mean
[15:20:07] <zeeshan|2> i remember 2 of the screw holes were for lock
[15:20:10] <zeeshan|2> and 2 were for release
[15:20:11] <archivist> nedd jacking apart
[15:20:14] <archivist> need
[15:20:39] <zeeshan|2> unfortunately i cant thread into the work piece =/
[15:21:00] <DaViruz> what about a hydraulic bush? i'm not sure of the exact name
[15:21:16] <zeeshan|2> are you guys suggesting something else
[15:21:16] <DaViruz> but it basically fills a thin walled cavity with hydraulic fluid to make it flex apart
[15:21:20] <zeeshan|2> cause you dont think this will work? :P
[15:21:28] <zeeshan|2> or is it confusing you as much as its confusing me
[15:21:28] <zeeshan|2> haha
[15:21:40] <DaViruz> i'm just spilling my mind basically
[15:21:44] <zeeshan|2> ah
[15:21:50] <archivist> I think original was better than new "idea"
[15:22:09] <DaViruz> how do you exert force on the ball? just a screw?
[15:22:15] <zeeshan|2> archivist: i'm really not sure how to make it collapse
[15:22:20] <zeeshan|2> DaViruz: yes
[15:22:37] <zeeshan|2> i have both sides threaded with screws
[15:22:44] <DaViruz> oh
[15:22:44] <zeeshan|2> but only one will be used to clamp
[15:22:59] <zeeshan|2> if clamp is hard to remove and doesnt collapse itself after i unclamp
[15:23:02] <zeeshan|2> then i thread the other screw in
[15:23:05] <zeeshan|2> and it should release
[15:23:23] <zeeshan|2> archivist: why
[15:23:23] <archivist> that is where you need to redesign, the relaxed state has to be very clear of item, expander has to be easy to move out
[15:23:31] <zeeshan|2> is it cause the fingers can fall out?
[15:23:49] <gregcnc> to hold wood?
[15:23:52] <archivist> they may cut into item and stick
[15:24:15] <zeeshan|2> thats what the old version did
[15:24:16] <DaViruz> what if you have a ball on either end, with a screw through both to exert even force, maybe then it won't bind up?
[15:24:18] <zeeshan|2> it dug into the wood and stuck
[15:24:25] <archivist> you need real retraction force built in
[15:24:28] <DaViruz> oh wood
[15:24:37] <zeeshan|2> DaViruz: the binding wasnt the problem in the old design
[15:24:47] <zeeshan|2> it got stuck
[15:24:53] <zeeshan|2> so when i was done machining, it was a pain in the ass to remove
[15:24:54] <DaViruz> maybe i should read back a bit more
[15:25:14] <DaViruz> i thought it got stock due to some sort of taper friction binding
[15:25:21] <motioncontrol> Hi at all. what is last version compliled for ubuntu 10.04 ?
[15:25:34] <zeeshan|2> http://imgur.com/9Rg8O0d
[15:25:37] <zeeshan|2> old mechanism
[15:25:43] <archivist> a coil spring is sometimes used to retract arms
[15:25:46] <zeeshan|2> wrong pic
[15:25:49] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/gHShOvF.jpg
[15:25:51] <zeeshan|2> there we go
[15:26:01] <zeeshan|2> this worked well
[15:26:09] <zeeshan|2> it had a death grip
[15:26:24] <DaViruz> oh. i remember you building that jig
[15:26:48] <zeeshan|2> maybe the problem is to remove the ribs
[15:26:49] <zeeshan|2> or lessen them
[15:26:51] <archivist> the slots are too short, not enough spring
[15:27:17] <archivist> so the upper will take a permanent set
[15:27:37] <zeeshan|2> actually the upper thing didnt take perm set
[15:27:52] <zeeshan|2> the ribbed part deformed into a ball shape
[15:28:06] <zeeshan|2> from clamping :P
[15:28:18] <zeeshan|2> maybe that is the problem?
[15:28:19] <gregcnc> consider knurling the OD of those instead of ribs?
[15:28:20] <zeeshan|2> use steel?
[15:28:20] <archivist> that is a "set"
[15:28:37] <archivist> permanent deformation
[15:29:26] <XXCoder> heh zeeshan|2 I remember that
[15:29:26] <zeeshan|2> ill make one of these new design style
[15:29:29] <XXCoder> ribbed for pleasure.
[15:29:32] <zeeshan|2> and see how it works
[15:29:47] <zeeshan|2> and if it doesnt, ill extend the slots like youre saying archivist and lessen the ribbed for pleasure
[15:29:52] <zeeshan|2> XXCoder: :D
[15:30:59] <archivist> smaller centre hole so fingers less likely to bend to a ball, make the plug a better form to spread the force
[15:32:49] <XXCoder> weld fingers to strips extending inside, weld those to ball designed in such way it can be screwed up or down
[15:33:07] <XXCoder> good luck welding em inside tight space though lol
[15:34:50] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/QLwYzO9.png
[15:34:59] <zeeshan|2> looks like i can fit 18 of these comfortably
[15:35:09] <zeeshan|2> 5 vs 18! :D
[15:35:28] <XXCoder> sometimes many at same time isnt really worth it
[15:35:39] <zeeshan|2> this time it is
[15:36:09] <zeeshan|2> let the machine run for 12 hours while i can do other stuff
[15:36:10] <zeeshan|2> :P
[15:36:32] <XXCoder> true
[15:36:45] <XXCoder> oh zee check this out
[15:36:56] <XXCoder> https://youtu.be/FIU-xO8wm1c
[15:37:02] <XXCoder> https://youtu.be/XfxE7Tk6Bb4
[15:37:30] <zeeshan|2> niceeeeeeeeee
[15:37:31] <zeeshan|2> it works!
[15:37:50] <XXCoder> sorta
[15:37:51] <zeeshan|2> that IS loud
[15:37:52] <zeeshan|2> :)
[15:37:56] <XXCoder> see second video
[15:38:09] <XXCoder> I need to run it with spindle off so you guys can hear motors
[15:38:11] <zeeshan|2> steppers?
[15:38:12] <XXCoder> will do today
[15:38:15] <XXCoder> yeah
[15:38:20] <zeeshan|2> it has to be missing steps
[15:38:21] <zeeshan|2> do that
[15:38:23] <zeeshan|2> *to do that
[15:38:32] <XXCoder> odd thing is it lasted hours
[15:38:46] <XXCoder> last video it had been over 2 hours , probably over 3
[15:41:59] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: I suspect its actually lack of power
[15:42:13] <XXCoder> first shift happened when I had to replug spindle
[15:42:22] <XXCoder> (my nephew acciently unplugged it)
[16:10:29] <zeeshan|2> lol
[16:10:46] <XXCoder> 500w there was little bit brownout
[16:11:04] <XXCoder> my powerbox is rated for 24v and my motors all are 3A
[16:11:14] <XXCoder> should be enough but then dunno how much board itself needs.
[16:12:03] <zeeshan|2> make a vid without the spindle
[16:12:11] <zeeshan|2> i think its missing steps
[16:12:19] <XXCoder> ok lemme do that be back
[16:12:32] <malcom2073> That seems like an awfully smooth slip to be losing steps
[16:12:35] <zeeshan|2> i gotta change my brakes, ill be back too
[16:22:54] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: uploading
[16:27:16] <Deejay> gn8
[16:33:02] <XXCoder> hey zeeshan|2
[16:34:41] <XXCoder> https://youtu.be/5LTTuFjYc0I heres video zeeshan|2
[16:35:25] <malcom2073> XXCoder: I hear a lot of odd resonance there
[16:35:41] <malcom2073> At the low speeds
[16:35:50] <XXCoder> Z does vibrate hard
[16:35:57] <XXCoder> when slowly going down
[16:36:08] <malcom2073> Yeah that's not that good, you microstepping?
[16:36:12] <XXCoder> 1/2
[16:36:21] <malcom2073> That's pretty large, why not smaller?
[16:36:36] <XXCoder> dunno actually
[16:36:53] <malcom2073> microstepping can sometimes help with resonance. The nastier they sound, the more unhappy they are. You want pretty smooth clean music from them
[16:37:19] <malcom2073> If I was a betting man, I'd say zeeshan is right, and you're losing steps... because of resonance
[16:37:24] <XXCoder> one of those times I wish I could hear, though can easily feel nasty vibration
[16:37:33] <XXCoder> odd thing is that Z stayed very level
[16:37:42] <XXCoder> its Y that was drifting
[16:37:44] <malcom2073> ohhhh that's right
[16:37:47] <malcom2073> Sorry I forgot :/
[16:37:51] <malcom2073> yeah you can feel it
[16:37:55] <XXCoder> previous run it was Z though
[16:38:26] <XXCoder> yeah when you has normal functional sense its hard to consider person with problems with that. normal thing really
[16:38:47] <malcom2073> You should be able to feel the difference
[16:40:18] <XXCoder> probably yeah
[16:40:27] <XXCoder> stepper tuning is still bit mystery to me
[16:40:45] <XXCoder> what is normal speed range for my small nema23 motors anyway
[16:40:56] <XXCoder> it seemed able to do 3,000 mm/m
[16:40:57] <malcom2073> Depends on their inductance and the voltage you're driving them at
[16:41:28] <malcom2073> Typically the datasheet will say though
[16:41:48] <XXCoder> I used kit with everything electrics
[16:42:01] <XXCoder> motors are 3A, I think 12v
[16:42:12] <malcom2073> Ah that's pretty low voltage
[16:42:26] <XXCoder> http://www.ebay.com/itm/3Axis-Nema23-Stepping-Motor-110N-cm-3-0A-4wire-board-TB6560-Power-for-CMC-mill-/281188392513?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4178225e41
[16:42:28] <XXCoder> this kit
[16:43:29] <XXCoder> weird, listing says 3A motors but details say 2.4A
[16:43:30] <malcom2073> You're probably fine though, if you can do 3000, you're doing much less than that there
[16:43:36] <malcom2073> but resonance doesn't hit at max speed, it hits at lower speeds
[16:43:37] <XXCoder> err no that is 2.4v
[16:44:02] <malcom2073> Right. Motors are rated so at Y voltage they do X amps
[16:44:09] <malcom2073> You run them at *much* higher voltage under normal operation
[16:44:12] <XXCoder> ok
[16:44:15] <malcom2073> Because it's not a constant voltage
[16:49:16] <XXCoder> hmm
[16:49:24] <XXCoder> my power supply is 24a
[16:49:36] <XXCoder> 12-36v
[16:49:45] <XXCoder> is it enough?
[16:49:53] <malcom2073> Heh, no, your power supply is not 12-36v :-P
[16:49:57] <malcom2073> Bet it's either 12, 24, or 36
[16:50:12] <XXCoder> oh picture showed it as 12-36 lemme see
[16:50:13] <malcom2073> Regardless, if you're able to free wheel to 3000mm/minute, I don't think voltage is an issue
[16:50:26] <malcom2073> I'll bet it's resonance
[16:50:29] <XXCoder> faster than that and it jams
[16:50:46] <XXCoder> not sure what source of jam is, but probably due to simply too fast to keep up
[16:50:57] <malcom2073> Probably hitting the torque dropoff
[16:51:07] <XXCoder> I think it starts jamming at 3500 and 4000 its almost always
[16:51:50] <XXCoder> ah specifically 24c
[16:51:51] <XXCoder> er v
[16:51:57] <malcom2073> That's not terrible
[16:52:04] <XXCoder> chinese 24v
[16:52:10] <XXCoder> probably 20v heh
[16:52:41] <XXCoder> microstepping causes it to lose some torque?
[16:52:51] <malcom2073> In the grand scheme of things: No
[16:53:02] <SpeedEvil> Microstepping doesn't generally cause torque loss as such
[16:53:21] <malcom2073> If you want to confuse yourself: technically in certain ways yes :-P
[16:53:34] <malcom2073> But no, you won't lose torque capability
[16:54:00] <XXCoder> lol ok
[16:54:41] <XXCoder> I love it when person making machine videos show speedup number like 2x or 5x whatever
[16:56:06] <malcom2073> I need to learn how to edit videos and make decent videos
[16:56:20] <XXCoder> yeah
[16:56:25] <XXCoder> couple tips for you though
[16:56:32] <XXCoder> try make it as still as possible
[16:56:35] <malcom2073> Vertical mode ftw?
[16:56:36] <malcom2073> :-P
[16:56:45] <malcom2073> Yeah I'd hard mount the camera
[16:56:51] <malcom2073> Either to the table, or to a stand
[16:56:55] <XXCoder> my videos are handheld but quite still by cheating and holding on gantry
[16:57:11] <malcom2073> I rest my arm on the vise sometimes when taking video of machining heh
[16:57:15] <XXCoder> and please, autofocus off if can
[16:57:38] <XXCoder> there is couple videos ruined by that, one had camera constually focus change
[16:58:05] * SpeedEvil remembers one video where the operator used her starfish as an autofocus target.
[16:58:38] <XXCoder> lol
[16:59:16] <SpeedEvil> Lighting is important.
[16:59:41] <XXCoder> minium clothes requirement
[16:59:46] <malcom2073> heh
[16:59:54] <SpeedEvil> More light means less noise generall, and can make your video go from a dull and colourless scene to excellent.
[17:00:04] <XXCoder> I saw in refection nude ugly guy
[17:00:17] <XXCoder> if nude, please be in least a pretty lady
[17:00:25] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCworsKCR-Sx6R6-BnIjS2MA - clickspring.
[17:00:32] <SpeedEvil> Also known as the gold and violet channel.
[17:00:33] <malcom2073> Yeah I've seen good videos :-P
[17:01:08] <SpeedEvil> And do spend a few moments cleaning up.
[17:06:48] <XXCoder> I do have webcam, I planned to put it in for just remote views
[17:16:46] <XXCoder> remote desktop with video program running and linuxcnc running
[17:16:58] <XXCoder> that is once i buy replacement wireless dongle lol
[17:24:07] <SpeedEvil> Add auto-record of webcam.
[17:24:25] <SpeedEvil> And auto-upload 30s when the emergency stop is banged hard
[17:25:35] <malcom2073> Heh, auto youtube + link here
[17:38:42] <Frank__17> hi
[17:44:34] <andypugh> Hi
[17:45:01] <FloppyDisk> hi
[17:46:30] <andypugh> I think that I am going to have to take the lathe apart again to move the prox back that I moved forwards yesterday.
[17:47:07] <andypugh> I was going to use a hole as a taget for the limit. I think it is going to be better with a movable block thingy.
[17:47:36] <andypugh> (I don’t like that as much, it’s a bit less fail-safe on power loss)
[17:48:49] <andypugh> Maybe I will make a set of limit-switch holes and little plugs to disable them.
[17:52:52] <motioncontrol> Hi at all. What is the last version we can compiled on ubuntu 10.04 ?
[17:52:53] <andypugh> I saw a very interesting collet-type chuck on a lathe today. AN expanding step-chuck operaed by a drawbar. https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/Holbrook#6282076669978454642
[17:54:53] <andypugh> motioncontrol: All current versions of LinuxCNC are available for 10.04 (Lucid Lynx) http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org
[17:57:25] <motioncontrol> andypugh, excuse i want dowload with git command for complile . i have test the 2.6.12 , but it's want python 2.7 and on ubuntu 10.04 we have 2.6.
[17:58:28] <motioncontrol> andypugh, actual master not can complile for 10.04
[17:58:56] <andypugh> My point is that if the buildbot can do it, then it can be done. And that means that it is possible to compile the unreleased “master” (2.8 as will be) version under 10.04
[17:59:40] <andypugh> You may have to update Python.
[18:00:21] <motioncontrol> how can update python at 2.7 ?
[18:00:33] <andypugh> I am booting a VM, I think that it has both 2.6 and 2.7 Python
[18:03:44] <andypugh> It seems to only have folders for modules for both versions. This VM is showing 2.7.3 Python
[18:04:04] <andypugh> I assume you have tried to update via the package manager and it has saif no?
[18:06:04] <motioncontrol> in package manager i have python 2.6dev , not have 2.7.
[18:07:02] <andypugh> And I guess it shows that to be the lastes version?
[18:14:43] <andypugh> Have you tried compiling using the configure option —with-python={path to python 2.6) ?
[18:14:58] <andypugh> https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/src/configure.in#L887
[18:20:51] <motioncontrol> No i don't know it, but now test .
[18:31:15] <motioncontrol> not understand path the python. i have write ./configure --with-python=/usr/lib/python2.6 , but have error
[18:31:45] <motioncontrol> checking python version... ./configure: line 8064: /usr/lib/python2.6: is a directory
[18:31:45] <motioncontrol> configure: error: Python version too old (2.7 or newer required)
[18:32:45] <motioncontrol> andypugh,
[18:34:32] <andypugh> You probably need to give a path to the python executable
[18:36:09] <andypugh> possibly /usr/bin/python2.6
[18:38:58] <motioncontrol> i have modified file .configure line : if ! $PYTHON -c 'import sys;raise SystemExit,sys.hexversion<0x2070000' in 0x2060000
[18:39:15] <motioncontrol> configure is ok
[18:39:20] <motioncontrol> make clean ok
[18:39:26] <motioncontrol> now stay make , wait
[18:40:16] <motioncontrol> andypugh, have error in complile : emc/rs274ngc/interp_remap.cc: In member function int Interp::add_parameters(setup*, block*, char*):
[18:40:16] <motioncontrol> emc/rs274ngc/interp_remap.cc:200: error: end is not a member of std
[18:40:16] <motioncontrol> emc/rs274ngc/interp_remap.cc:201: error: end is not a member of std
[18:40:16] <motioncontrol> emc/rs274ngc/interp_remap.cc:202: error: end is not a member of std
[18:40:16] <motioncontrol> emc/rs274ngc/interp_remap.cc:203: error: end is not a member of std
[18:40:18] <motioncontrol> emc/rs274ngc/interp_remap.cc:204: error: end is not a member of std
[18:40:20] <motioncontrol> make: *** [objects/emc/rs274ngc/interp_remap.o] Errore 1
[18:40:45] <andypugh> That will probably fail when it can’t find python. The —with-python switch is likely to be the way to go, but you need the /usr/bin not /usr/lib
[18:43:13] <Sync> it looks like std::end is missing in 10.04
[18:43:25] <Sync> it seems to be a known issue
[18:43:35] <Sync> probably gotta update your gcc
[18:44:04] <andypugh> i think that might be a boost-python thing
[18:44:11] <motioncontrol> i have configured ok with /usr/bin/python2.6, but have the same error std
[18:44:14] <andypugh> There is another config switch
[18:45:24] <Sync> andypugh: no
[18:45:28] <Sync> it is a c++11 thing
[18:46:01] <motioncontrol> please help . i want compile actual master on 10.4
[18:46:02] <andypugh> motioncontrol: If you do ./configure -h you get a list of all the config switches, there might be useful clues there.
[18:46:26] <motioncontrol> i thing it a problem the c++ version
[18:46:45] <Sync> motioncontrol: it seems like that will not work anymore without major effort
[18:47:09] <Sync> but eh, 10.04 is 6 years old anyway
[18:47:21] <Polymorphism> emc/rs274ngc/interp_remap.cc:200: error: end is not a member of std
[18:48:05] <motioncontrol> use wheezy is a solution ?
[18:48:37] <motioncontrol> i have test wheezy, but realtime is more slow the 10.04
[18:49:04] <andypugh> You might have better luck asking on the developers mailing list. As I said, it looks like the buildbot can do it.
[18:50:23] <Sync> there has been some talk about it on the list
[18:51:01] <Sync> https://sourceforge.net/p/emc/mailman/emc-developers/thread/977e95cc4fe68faa3011aca474a33213@mail.swcp.com/ see here
[18:52:10] <motioncontrol> ok thanks i read it's
[18:54:39] <pcw_home> If not used for software stepping latency is probably not terribly important so wheezy may be fine
[18:55:42] <XXCoder> if I decide to upgrade my electrics for cnc router, what would be best? (must fit nema23)
[18:56:21] <alex4nder> XXCoder: probably smaller/better accel/faster steppers?
[18:56:27] <alex4nder> or going servos
[18:56:39] <XXCoder> yeah was thinking servos lol expensive though
[18:56:55] <alex4nder> I was on the fence, but went steppers for the short term.
[18:57:04] <andypugh> second-hand servos are cheap. But the closed-loop steppers look good.
[18:57:23] <XXCoder> closed loops knows when oit has missed step correct?
[18:57:26] <XXCoder> as it has encoder
[18:58:27] <andypugh> More that that, it knows where to apply the field, and can ramp-up and down the current to suit. They basically act as very-multipole brushless motors.
[18:58:43] <XXCoder> interesting
[18:59:01] <pcw_home> Yeah the closed loop step drives are true servos
[18:59:04] <XXCoder> the kit isnt too hard, its spindle thats giving me grief
[18:59:26] <XXCoder> 52mm needed, has 43mm
[19:01:49] <Sync> I wonder if they actually do foc with steppers andypugh
[19:02:10] <pcw_home> You can (we have)
[19:02:58] <pcw_home> no 2<->3 phase transforms needed
[19:04:29] <Sync> well, then you could do cool stuff like field weakening to get more speed
[19:05:46] <pcw_home> maybe though stepmotors are not induction motors
[19:08:24] <Sync> that should not matter
[19:11:14] <pcw_home> well it does, you cannot do filed weakening with PMSMs for example
[19:11:47] <pcw_home> Which is one reason induction motors are used for spindles
[19:14:36] <Sync> huh?
[19:14:42] <Sync> you can do field weakening with pmsms
[19:15:12] <pcw_home> How? you cannot change the rotor field
[19:15:59] <pcw_home> well with wound rotor like an alternator you can, or if you overheat them... :-)
[19:17:23] <Sync> increasing d current
[19:17:37] <Sync> so that the flux linkage decreases
[19:18:26] <Sync> the rotor flux is not important, airgap flux is
[19:18:36] <pcw_home> that wont allow greater speed
[19:18:51] <pcw_home> and just wastes power
[19:19:45] <Sync> it will increase speed
[19:20:05] <pcw_home> I dont think so (on an induction motor yes)
[19:22:59] <Sync> well, if it decreases the flux linkage the only thing you can get is lower torque and more speed
[19:23:22] <Sync> and yes, it will require the inverter to shove maximum voltage at maximum current into the motor
[19:28:38] <Sync> http://www.oocities.org/vladan.rm/pdf/ee2007_1.pdf quick paper on it pcw_home
[19:28:54] <pcw_home> I guess its possible, whether or not its practical is another thing
[19:29:26] <Sync> a lot of highly dynamic servodrives use it
[19:31:53] <pcw_home> seems like the efficiency would be quite poor
[19:31:55] <pcw_home> (since you lose efficiency by field weakening in the first place and then compound it by needing more useless drive current to do it)
[19:34:21] <Sync> as far as I understand it it is about as bad as driving the motor at full speed and full torque
[19:34:36] <Sync> and if you need more speed, eh what are you going to do?
[19:39:22] <pcw_home> I may be wrong but it seems that you would have 1/4 the torque to double the speed
[19:40:54] <Sync> that doesn't sound wron
[19:42:02] <pcw_home> because of all the D current that is doing nothing but opposing the rotor field
[19:42:59] <Sync> yes, but usually at that speed you don't need all of the torque you could get
[19:43:09] <Sync> and it is free
[19:46:10] <pcw_home> Yeah that is interesting (opposing the rotor field), thanks for the link
[19:46:54] <Sync> I can link you a moar comprehensive one
[19:47:07] <Sync> just wanted to prove my point ;)
[19:47:13] <Sync> http://projekter.aau.dk/projekter/files/17643253/PED4_1038C.pdf
[19:50:10] <Sync> I mean, it is a logical consequence of FOC
[19:50:26] <Sync> if you can control d and q corrent independently, why not make the flux change with d current
[19:52:00] <andypugh> I am not sure I entirely trust a paper that is entirely based on Simulink and dSpace models. If your model is wrong, then it isn’t the real world.
[19:52:47] <andypugh> (and as a general rule, anything that is an MSc project makes me cautious)
[19:52:55] <Sync> well, that is all the motor control guys do nowadays
[19:53:08] <Sync> yolo around in matlab/simulink
[19:53:12] <Sync> get the fpga working hard
[19:53:16] <Sync> and watch the motor explode
[19:53:47] <andypugh> I haven’t read it all the way, but the abstract makes no mention of running an actual motor.
[19:53:56] <Sync> later on they try it
[19:54:28] <andypugh> Ah, yes, the dSpace system is running an actual motor.
[19:54:39] <andypugh> I missed that.
[19:56:17] <Sync> one of the things still missing in our servodrive
[19:57:30] <andypugh> PCW: Is there any way to set the phase angle of an 8i20 to zero to measure the encoder offset?
[19:58:12] <andypugh> I have a feeling that the internal PIDs get in the way?
[19:58:18] <pcw_home> set it to 90
[19:58:58] <andypugh> I was thinking that angle -90 and positive current was the way?
[19:59:26] <pcw_home> The 8I20 can take both D and Q but the sserial interface only sends q and sets d to 0
[19:59:27] <andypugh> (Or vice-versa)
[20:00:42] <andypugh> I would rather like to write something that can “interrogate” a motor and give you all the numbers you need to set up the bldc comp.
[20:01:46] <pcw_home> yeah a, d mode spinner that learns would be great
[20:02:20] <andypugh> I was thinking that it could try to guess the hall sequence too, that sort of thing.
[20:03:08] <Sync> pcw_home: can't you just use a simple autophase setup for the initial encoder offset?
[20:03:27] <andypugh> Given a bare motor and direct contol of the field it would be relatively easy, but most drives don’t give you that option.
[20:04:20] <Sync> you can measure most values by doing some handwaving with the drive in the direction of the motor
[20:04:48] <andypugh> It turns out to be wierder than it should be with ral motors.
[20:04:56] <andypugh> (real motors)
[20:05:27] <andypugh> For example the 8i20 consiers zero rotor angle to be where is sits with U+V-W-.
[20:05:53] <pcw_home> a spinner program could learn hall codes, exact encoder counts etc
[20:06:08] <Sync> our drive just wiggles the motor with pos and neg current on a known phase
[20:06:16] <Sync> and thus can calculate encoder offset
[20:06:52] <andypugh> But when I wired the motor that way to a PSU limited to 0.5A the motor didnt’t snap to a position, on the contrary it became a wierd mushy thing that you could easily turn by hand and that would settle several degrees either side of notional zero.
[20:07:21] <Sync> depending on your motor .5A is not a lot
[20:07:55] <andypugh> No, but I was trying to be gentle :-)
[20:09:02] <andypugh> I don’t 100% trust the motor spec. https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/Holbrook#6227187254470552882
[20:09:35] <Sync> I'd shove 10A through them without even thinking about it
[20:10:11] <andypugh> The big motor is rated 1kW. The little one is 950W. The big one is 2.5A nominal, 7,5A peak. The small one is 4A nominal 22.5A peak. The numbers seem to different
[20:10:17] <andypugh> (too different)
[20:11:32] <gregcnc> measure resistance
[20:11:43] <andypugh> 1.4ohms
[20:11:51] <pcw_home> what voltage/RPM
[20:12:26] <andypugh> Both 300V and similar RPM (one might be 3000 and one might be 5000)
[20:12:41] <Sync> pretty big motors for only 1kW
[20:12:45] <andypugh> I think they are aimed at different markets
[20:12:59] <gregcnc> both are 1.4 ohm?
[20:13:18] <andypugh> I have forgotten what the big one is.
[20:13:23] <pcw_home> well a 6000 RPM 1KW motor is about 1/2 the size of a 3000 RPM 1KW motor
[20:13:55] <andypugh> That just works, and has a built-in temperature thing. The little one doesn’t. I rather wish it was the other way round.
[20:15:27] <andypugh> The little one is actually rather nice, all potted solid and designed to get heat out through the mounting flange.
[20:16:17] <pcw_home> Yeah the little on looks1KW-ish to me (I have a recent Yaskawa 400W and it looks like a nema 23 stepper)
[20:17:13] <andypugh> I have actually done a lot of mods to the little one, I machined the rotor to remove the brake, and machined the flange to suit my application, and swapped the encoder for a resolver. If it broke I would struggle to find a replacement.
[20:17:53] <Polymorphism> you could make a replacement
[20:18:22] <andypugh> I doubt it. I have made a motor, but it didn’t turn out particularly effficient.
[20:19:09] <Tom_itx> andypugh i was somewhat wondering what came of that motor
[20:19:28] <andypugh> This one? https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/CNCUnsorted#5761456633570778562
[20:19:46] <Tom_itx> yeah
[20:20:09] <andypugh> It’s this one: https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/CNCUnsorted#5998926150725388018
[20:20:31] <andypugh> I could never get one of the encoders to work reliably enough.
[20:20:34] <Tom_itx> oh nice. how's it working out?
[20:21:01] <andypugh> Not well enough to use.
[20:21:07] <Tom_itx> that's too bad
[20:21:54] <andypugh> I could probably make the thing work adequately using the spindle encoder and the hall sensors for the various feedbacks, if I had a job that really needed it.
[20:26:13] <andypugh> Right, tiime to sleep. Catching a flight to the US tomorrow morning.
[20:26:41] <andypugh> If the continent sinks, you know who to blame.
[21:21:26] <gregcnc> https://www.instagram.com/p/BE9yx_mOCwa/ when you put the lathe too close to the exterior wall
[21:44:18] <XXCoder> gregcnc: looking
[21:44:58] <XXCoder> spinning external rod. very safe. lol
[21:46:50] <gregcnc> I guess he didn't want to load short bars, but I don't get it
[21:47:42] <XXCoder> dont have saw maybe
[21:52:42] <XXCoder> gregcnc: honestly?
[21:52:50] <XXCoder> I would build a garage by that hole
[21:53:21] <XXCoder> it has bottom closet for stuff, and upper hatch type door to open and expose lathe stock holder length and hole
[21:53:25] <XXCoder> more supported
[21:57:09] <malcom2073> Yeah he didnt' wanna keep reloading the machine according to his youtube about it
[21:57:21] <malcom2073> He has it set up to just pop out parts quickly
[21:57:46] <XXCoder> external "garden hut" is way to go
[21:58:04] <malcom2073> I expect he'd build one at some point
[21:58:28] <XXCoder> yeah
[21:58:50] <XXCoder> If it was me I'd do largish yard garage but with side hatch where can open to load lathe
[21:58:55] <XXCoder> with proper supports and all
[21:59:40] <gregcnc> the building that lathe is in, isn't small, not my wall...
[21:59:56] <gregcnc> how about some tapping? https://www.instagram.com/p/BE1bmIgklDp/
[22:00:01] <XXCoder> I know its not yours
[22:00:24] <XXCoder> smoking tap, literally
[22:00:59] <malcom2073> That's a biggun
[22:50:42] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: done with brakes? heh
[22:58:09] <XXCoder> dang
[22:58:10] <XXCoder> https://www.facebook.com/futurism/videos/536859546493249/
[22:58:22] <XXCoder> dunno if accessable to people without fb account