#linuxcnc | Logs for 2016-04-28

[01:33:10] <CaptHindsight> http://i.imgur.com/9lL6ul.jpg box-o-cat
[01:33:27] <unfy> dem eyes!
[02:24:10] <Deejay> moin
[02:27:10] <unfy> gkkyao ;/
[02:27:24] <unfy> erm, deejay o/ ... keyboard reverted to qwerty for some reason ._.
[02:48:40] <mase-tech> Moin Moin and good morning
[02:48:54] <mase-tech> sunny day in germany
[02:49:03] <mase-tech> but it is fucking cold
[04:30:11] <unfy> kinda wonder how much 1" square tubing filled with concrete will deflect
[04:30:23] <SpeedEvil> Almost exactly the same as without
[04:30:27] <SpeedEvil> Until it buckles
[04:30:43] <unfy> so extra hassle: not worth it. gotcha.
[04:30:44] <SpeedEvil> Does or does not buckle I mean
[04:30:55] <SpeedEvil> It will be quite a bit more massive of course
[04:31:03] <SpeedEvil> which is often good
[04:31:27] <SpeedEvil> sand + polyurethane - for example - is possibly a better option if you just want massive though
[04:32:18] <unfy> basically - the wood based cnc router is .... fine. I still need to get the thrust bearings installed to eliminate axis lead screw movement. but i've already started to part some things for a beefier / better mill heh
[04:33:13] <unfy> still trying to keep it hobby friendly, but am kinda 'mental masturbating' about a few ideas to get some extra rigidity out of it.
[04:33:44] <unfy> sand & poly sound a lot better for mass indeed.
[04:35:56] <archivist> helps with damping
[04:36:09] <unfy> 1" looks to be easily accessible
[04:36:20] <unfy> trying to see if i can get bigger from hardware store
[04:36:34] <archivist> 1" is a bit small for real roek
[04:36:44] <archivist> work
[04:38:37] <unfy> another store looks like it might carry 1-1/4" in some stores.
[04:39:13] <archivist> often local store stuff is domestic thin wall tube
[04:40:29] <unfy> 16ga or 14ga usually i think, yeah. but it's a step up from wood :D
[04:41:44] <unfy> not including shipping, looks like onlinemetals for square tubing is prolly a better bet.
[04:42:40] <SpeedEvil> unfy: Not that much sometimes.
[04:43:00] <SpeedEvil> Yes, steel is more rigid than wood. But light duty box section - not hugely so than solid wood.
[04:43:13] <SpeedEvil> YOu need very modestly greater dimension to get to the same rigidity.
[04:44:31] <SpeedEvil> Wood has 1/30th or so of the Young's modulus - yes - but that means that 2.5" wood beam is as rigid as 1" solid steel.
[04:45:07] <SpeedEvil> Maybe 1.5" is as rigid as light duty section.
[04:45:40] <SpeedEvil> (wood has strength anisotropy though, and knots and inhomogeneity which is a problem though.
[04:45:52] <archivist> shape and design is more important than material
[04:46:14] <unfy> hmmmmmm
[04:46:32] <archivist> something lost on 99% of the glue gun designs
[04:46:39] <unfy> honeycomb eggshell school science class film gooooo
[04:46:45] <SpeedEvil> archivist: quite
[04:47:16] <SpeedEvil> archivist: I have mentioned in the past that I have considered structural cupboards as a main support for a small building.
[04:47:42] <SpeedEvil> 60cm*60cm deep "I" beam
[04:47:42] <unfy> obligatory simpsons quote: that's a load bearing poster
[04:48:08] <SpeedEvil> with dividers to stop it going non-square, and that's a massive amount of rigidity
[04:48:35] <archivist> digital alpha PCs made very solid bench legs :)
[04:48:52] <unfy> or vax's
[04:49:15] <unfy> i'm still kinda sad i sold my alphastation, but it was just so very useless lol
[04:49:36] <archivist> I have an alpha 1000 next to me
[04:59:08] <XXCoder> SpeedEvil: wood is far stronger than steel when compared weight wise
[04:59:14] <XXCoder> and flexiable too
[05:07:01] <SpeedEvil> In some cases
[05:07:41] <SpeedEvil> Steel is more homogenous which can mean easier construction without buckling
[05:10:45] <XXCoder> yeah thats one of wood flaw
[05:11:05] <XXCoder> bamboo is better
[05:11:13] <XXCoder> lighter AND stronfer than wood
[05:12:49] <XXCoder> and better consitence
[05:14:32] <XXCoder> geeez https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPClUTfKB-o&list=TLVoW1kZGW7HMyNzA0MjAxNg
[05:14:38] <XXCoder> gonna love homofaciens
[05:17:18] <XXCoder> SpeedEvil: its hard to beat that machine on shitness
[05:17:26] <XXCoder> though its so cheap
[05:17:56] <XXCoder> most epensive is steppers and then screws
[05:18:57] <malcom2073> end switches, servos, that machine is cooler than my mill haha
[05:19:09] <XXCoder> lol
[05:19:26] <XXCoder> well he found a way to go cheaper.
[05:19:30] <XXCoder> manual cnc machine
[05:19:33] <XXCoder> heh
[05:19:42] <mase-tech> XXCoder: Hi man whats up
[05:19:48] <mase-tech> Hi everybody
[05:19:49] <XXCoder> taling about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPClUTfKB-o&list=TLVoW1kZGW7HMyNzA0MjAxNg
[05:19:53] <XXCoder> funny
[05:20:12] <mase-tech> yes nice work
[05:20:14] <mase-tech> I know him
[05:20:44] <XXCoder> in person or?
[05:20:56] <mase-tech> I have contact
[05:21:17] <XXCoder> cool :)
[05:21:46] <mase-tech> networking is important
[05:21:56] <XXCoder> usually yep
[05:28:28] <unfy> malcom: i still have yet to install thrust bearings :( you should be ashamed of me :(
[05:30:43] <malcom2073> unfy: Hah, at long as it eventually gets done :)
[05:30:57] <malcom2073> I'm a procrastinator myself, hell my mill has taken forever just to get running
[05:31:17] <unfy> i've mostly just been too busy heh
[05:31:25] <unfy> the past weekend i was building a compressor box, too
[05:32:02] <malcom2073> Nice
[05:34:18] <unfy> well, it oddly didn't work as well as i expected to. granted it was just 3/4" plywood at the moment. i grabbed some trash-bin ceiling tiles to line it with - but just haven't done so yet
[05:35:11] <unfy> i'm hoping the ceiling tiles will help for sound, and then getting it up / off the ground a bit will stop any vibration / rattle against concrete heh
[05:35:25] <unfy> it's got air in & out baffles, so that's not a concern i don't think
[05:35:28] <XXCoder> unfy: hockey pucks
[05:35:31] <malcom2073> Oilless compressor?
[05:35:37] <XXCoder> its very anti-vibration
[05:35:48] <unfy> oh, it's a very cheap / shitty oil less compressor yes
[05:36:00] <malcom2073> Heh yeah they're noisy
[05:36:13] <unfy> the box is /way/ over designed for what a cheap piece of shit it is - but it's been a fun / relaxing project...
[05:36:26] <unfy> and only about $25 so far in cost
[05:36:51] <XXCoder> not bad
[05:37:06] <unfy> xxcoder: guess i'll hit a sports store next time i'm awake during the day
[05:37:10] <malcom2073> Pics for gtfo? :-P
[05:37:14] <XXCoder> indeed
[05:37:20] <XXCoder> to both
[05:38:00] <malcom2073> I have an old 70's compressor that I've rigged up to a motor and a 13 gallon tank, it's not terribly noisy, and the noise it makes isn't annoying
[05:38:09] <malcom2073> Sounds like an old hit and miss engine rather than a compressor heh
[05:38:12] <unfy> https://imgur.com/a/xe6t8 <- first time using the router that was used for the cuts
[05:38:41] <XXCoder> similiar priciple as muffler I guess?
[05:38:42] <unfy> i hadn't quite assembled the side baffle in the second pic. that's done now as well.
[05:38:48] <malcom2073> Nice
[05:39:00] <unfy> xxcoder: basically
[05:39:09] <XXCoder> cool
[05:40:23] <unfy> and yes, first pic shows a misplaced cut with wide track for a baffle. second pic shows i goofed on one of the panels and ended up using it for a side piece instead of baffling. and then i also cut one of the grooves in the wrong place - hence it just being there for no reason :D
[05:40:56] <unfy> basically just kinda designed and threw it together as i went - so had some obvious bozo moments
[05:41:06] <XXCoder> hey racing stripes make it go faster lol
[05:42:27] <unfy> the panel towards top of the second pic i won't actually glue in place. i'll leave it so i can extend the length if i ever decide to buy a better compressor heh
[05:45:50] <unfy> and being just about a whole 4x8 sheet of 3/4" plywood ? that thing's gonna be silly heavy ._.
[05:48:17] <unfy> hockey pucks look to be about $3 each at retail store. sure, i'll give it a go
[05:48:29] <XXCoder> yeah
[05:48:38] <XXCoder> amazon oddly prices em higher
[05:49:00] <XXCoder> have to be real ones not plastic though
[05:49:06] <XXCoder> regulation ones
[05:49:12] <unfy> 'out of stock' ... fsck!
[05:49:13] <XXCoder> amazon has 2 for $9
[05:49:24] <unfy> and ebay has 50 packs for less than $1 a piece
[05:50:11] <unfy> lol review: Hockey Puck - or - Air Compressor Feet
[05:50:41] <XXCoder> lol
[05:50:53] <XXCoder> 50 is little many
[05:51:02] <XXCoder> hockey puck everything you own that vibrates
[05:51:07] <XXCoder> not your wife stuff though
[05:51:07] <unfy> maybe my truck needs new suspension >_>
[05:51:47] <archivist> I put mine in the shed to keep the noise down
[05:52:12] <unfy> apt living. i rent a garage and do all the construction stuff in it.
[05:52:39] <unfy> which, kinda sucks. i don't have a dedicated electrical circuit so can't go hog wild on big power tools ._.
[05:52:46] <XXCoder> sucks
[05:52:50] <XXCoder> no big cnc either
[05:53:11] <unfy> no lathe, no cnc, no table saw atm, no no no no no ._.
[05:54:31] <unfy> also, i kinda don't want to trip a breaker and have to explain what i'm doing :D
[05:55:21] <XXCoder> I got a idea
[05:55:29] <XXCoder> biy power generator and run off that ;)
[05:55:32] <XXCoder> bigass one
[05:55:46] <unfy> i have a smaller generator for emergencies - and yes i've considered it :D
[05:55:50] <archivist> I can sell you one
[05:56:13] <archivist> 6cyl deisel engine 3 phase :)
[05:56:34] <unfy> the proper solution is to get a house with my own garage or workshop, or to see if there are places that rent out work space per month
[05:56:56] <jthornton> makes my 2 cylinder diesel 3 phase generator feel inadequate
[05:59:00] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=generator+4076
[05:59:26] <archivist> I should look after it a bit better
[06:01:27] <jthornton> does it run
[06:02:29] <archivist> when I last used it....erm some years ago
[06:04:06] <archivist> dates from the 1970's oil crisis, I got it in the 1990's to power a museum which it did until we were on mains
[06:04:48] <unfy> heading home. hope it's not raining. will then hopefully get the ceiling tile installed.
[06:09:21] <enleth> a friend is having problems at his family's machine shop, with old machinists who grew up and worked during the communist era and now don't give a shit about proper maintenance of tooling - holders, endmills, whole slab mills and such are thrown into boxes chipping each other, left to rust with no cleaning or oiling, shell mills are getting sharpened with inserts on (I know, wtf?!) and so on
[06:09:29] <enleth> I wonder how people deal with such problems
[06:10:09] <XXCoder> by kissing em off goodbye
[06:10:13] <XXCoder> probably anyway
[06:10:15] <enleth> like, he can't just tell those old bastards to go to hell, machinists are tough to come by in the area
[06:13:23] <jthornton> 9 more pounds to target :)
[06:14:30] <XXCoder> enleth: adverise for jobs, just one position
[06:14:30] <_methods> then it's chzbrgr time
[06:14:35] <enleth> the only suggestion I had was to gather all tooling in a single storage room and hire someone to keep track of it, hand it out and clean it up as it comes back and document any damage=
[06:14:47] <mase-tech> OMG shit I forgot my pizza :(
[06:14:48] <XXCoder> bump off one of ye olde worker each time real professional ones get in
[06:15:08] <archivist> charge them for damage
[06:15:10] <enleth> XXCoder: that's the plan in the long run, I think
[06:15:23] <XXCoder> enleth: seriously though that is good idea. that and add bonuses based on lower tool usage
[06:15:32] <XXCoder> er lower tool buying
[06:15:50] <enleth> right now, having a tool room and someone in charge of it is probably the only viable solution
[06:15:50] <archivist> wrkers only care if treated right too
[06:16:30] <_methods> we enforce 1/2 hour cleanup at the end of every day and 1 hour on fridays
[06:16:35] <XXCoder> yeah and make sure tools are pulled and put by that worker
[06:16:41] <_methods> that seems to keep things fairly straight
[06:16:56] <_methods> then before holidays sometimes we'll take a whole day or half day to clean up
[06:17:18] <XXCoder> meaning workers do not remove tools from umm tapers? collets?
[06:17:23] <archivist> sometimes the bosses do not realise how and why the make the workers bad
[06:17:53] <XXCoder> _methods's company sounds awesome. sloppy shop means workers get sloppy too
[06:18:01] <XXCoder> mess, improper sorted stuff, so on
[06:18:07] <_methods> well i think some workers "think" they are fast but they're really not they're just not cleaning up
[06:18:19] <XXCoder> shop I work at isnt too bad though
[06:18:20] <_methods> and they're trying to make the company money by being "fast"
[06:18:30] <XXCoder> mess means accients
[06:18:36] <XXCoder> accients mean company lose money
[06:18:37] <_methods> but you know the road to hell is paved with good intentions
[06:18:52] <_methods> so sometimes you just have to tell everyone "time out" lets clean up
[06:18:57] <enleth> mess is definitely a problem there, the shop is run by friend's father, who can't really spend all that much time there due to his age, so there's no one to actually supervise the shop floor
[06:19:17] <_methods> most people don't want to work in a mess
[06:19:21] <XXCoder> enleth: hire a experenced shop manager
[06:19:21] <enleth> the machinists just have a roster of stuff to do and run the place themselves day to day
[06:19:27] <_methods> you just have to help them decide not to work in a mess
[06:19:30] <XXCoder> and add requirement for clean up
[06:19:42] <archivist> if the workers have shares in the company they may start to care
[06:20:00] <archivist> if on low pay, wont give a f
[06:20:19] <_methods> yeah clean up time can't fix a bad attitude
[06:20:37] <_methods> if there is another problem you probably need to fix that first
[06:21:06] <_methods> but usually people just need to know that there is a safe zone that they can clean up in and they won't get yelled at for not working on a job
[06:22:34] <XXCoder> in least its not per part pay
[06:22:45] <XXCoder> I heard those shops is hell on morale
[06:23:10] <mase-tech> u call for morale ?
[06:23:11] <mase-tech> lol
[06:23:32] <enleth> maybe bonuses for keeping their part of the floor clean and liberal limits on allowed cleaning time?
[06:23:58] <_methods> yeah our shop floor supervisor carries scratch off lottery tickets
[06:23:59] <XXCoder> geez https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai7DHG4w1U0
[06:24:06] <_methods> and if he sees someone do something good he hands out tickets
[06:24:22] <enleth> by the way, we also discussed storage of really expensive tooling and I was wondering if it makes sense to just build a tool rack that sits in a small tub of oil
[06:24:42] <_methods> well most places have wax pots
[06:24:57] <_methods> for keeping tools from getting beat up in drawers or whatever
[06:25:09] <enleth> and have the tool room guy pull them, wipe with a rag and hand them out, then clean and dunk them in the oil again when he gets them back
[06:25:12] <jthornton> I'm trying to remember if all the files on a DOS 6.2 drive can just be copied or is there some hidden stuff?
[06:25:27] <enleth> would definitely help for rusting, that's a huge problem there now
[06:25:46] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, just the hidden system files
[06:26:08] <enleth> _methods: wax pots?
[06:26:13] <_methods> yeah
[06:26:17] <_methods> one sec i'll find you link
[06:26:42] <_methods> http://www.travers.com/dip-plasticwax-seals-melting-pots/p/177802/
[06:27:03] <_methods> after you sharpen tools or when you want to protect them after use dip them in that
[06:27:05] <Tom_itx> http://www.allbootdisks.com/download/iso.html
[06:27:08] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop
[06:27:41] <jdh> format/s
[06:27:51] <jthornton> Tom_itx: I want to back up my 308 which runs on dos
[06:27:53] <XXCoder> enleth: seriously get a manager
[06:27:58] <XXCoder> then get tool manager
[06:28:03] <XXCoder> that'll change a lot
[06:28:12] <Tom_itx> jthornton, just get an image software
[06:28:23] <_methods> it's hard for most small shops to dedicate a guy to the tool crib
[06:28:23] <Tom_itx> AOMEI Backup works for me
[06:29:32] <mase-tech> XXCoder: nicw vid
[06:29:49] <XXCoder> mase-tech: yeah. made me seriously ill though. my brain sucks.
[06:30:15] <mase-tech> need to buy lego :D
[06:32:02] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, i've got an old bootable cd with ghost that would also work
[06:32:09] <Tom_itx> if you want the iso
[06:32:33] <jthornton> hmm I may have ghost somewhere
[06:34:16] <Bushman> ave
[06:34:46] <Bushman> does anyone know if i can modify default path to where g38.x probe data will be writen
[06:35:14] <jthornton> in the ini file
[06:35:17] <Bushman> i'd like it to be placed in my nc files folder for ease of finding it.
[06:35:28] <Bushman> jthornton: oh. ok. thanks :P
[06:35:44] <jthornton> change the var file location
[06:37:04] <Bushman> you mean, they land in the same place?
[06:38:40] <Bushman> there's no other way? only by moving the persistent .var file location?
[06:38:53] <jthornton> After successful probing, parameters 5061 to 5069 will be set to the coordinates of X, Y, Z, A, B, C, U, V, W of the location of the controlled point at the time the probe changed state. After unsuccessful probing, they are set to the coordinates of the programmed point. Parameter 5070 is set to 1 if the probe succeeded and 0 if the probe failed.
[06:39:41] <jthornton> take a look at the http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gcode/overview.html#_probe_logging
[06:39:55] <Bushman> i know, i just read that.
[06:40:19] <jthornton> I assume you can add a path
[06:40:52] <Bushman> i'm talking about this:A comment of the form (PROBEOPEN filename.txt) will open filename.txt and store the 9-number coordinate consisting of XYZABCUVW of each successful straight probe in it. The file must be closed with (PROBECLOSE).
[06:41:06] <Bushman> from what i know, you can't add path to that
[06:41:14] <Bushman> for security reasons
[06:41:35] <jthornton> security reasons?
[06:42:28] <Bushman> yea. imagine: (PROBEOPEN /etc/prettymuchanyfile )
[06:42:35] <Bushman> or any other place in the system
[06:43:16] <jthornton> to use /etc you have to be root
[06:43:32] <jthornton> not a good place to do stuff in
[06:43:48] <Bushman> but to use ~/.bashrc you don't
[06:44:16] <Bushman> look, i'm here not to talk about security of linuxCNC implementation.
[06:44:29] <Bushman> i just wanted to ask if there is a way to change the default path
[06:45:12] <Bushman> if you don't know, please say that. it's not like you have to know these things.
[06:46:27] <Bushman> i don't want to seem rude (and i know i probably already do). i really only want to know this one thing atm.
[06:47:04] <Bushman> it is ok if you genuinely don't know. after all you didn't write the whole thing, right?
[06:47:51] <Bushman> i was just hoping there might be someone who maybe had anything to do with this behaviour of g38
[06:48:34] <enleth> Bushman: I'd take a peek at the source code to see how it works
[06:49:11] <Bushman> enleth: great! thanks in advance ;]
[06:49:56] <enleth> well it's open source for a reason
[06:50:37] <Bushman> heh, yea. well, technically i could do that myself... but...
[06:50:57] <Bushman> any code bigger than 10k bytes is black magic for me XD
[06:51:27] <Bushman> i think my bigest projects in plain C were like 4k long with comments :D
[06:59:08] <XXCoder> Elio E1 body design https://cdn2.hubspot.net/hub/358290/hubfs/Capture22.jpg
[06:59:09] <_methods> just symlink it wherever you want
[07:00:37] <Bushman> hmm...
[07:01:06] <Bushman> but in that case i'd have to manually symlink every file i create while probing different things
[07:01:26] <Bushman> which kind of defeats the point :(
[07:02:24] <_methods> symlink the folder then
[07:05:10] <enleth> Bushman: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/src/emc/task/emccanon.cc#L2205 - to be honest, I don't see much in the way of security checks here
[07:05:21] <enleth> Bushman: have you tried giving it an absolute path?
[07:05:32] <enleth> or a lot of ../../../
[07:11:29] <jthornton> works for me
[07:13:17] <Bushman> enleth: yes i have.
[07:13:26] <Bushman> is it possible it was changed recently?
[07:13:34] <Bushman> my version is kind of old
[07:13:42] <enleth> I'm looking at the most recent version in git
[07:13:57] <enleth> and I don't think it may have changed
[07:14:29] <Bushman> i see
[07:14:36] <Bushman> jthornton: what was the file path you tried?
[07:14:42] <enleth> I suspect the whole thing just chdir()s to the configuration directory
[07:14:45] <jthornton> yep
[07:14:47] <Bushman> maybe i can try it to
[07:14:50] <enleth> so it opens files with no path specified there
[07:15:02] <jthornton> (LOGOPEN,/home/john/linuxcnc/nc_files/log.txt)
[07:15:06] <enleth> but it should open an absolute path just fine
[07:15:14] <Bushman> umm...
[07:15:16] <Bushman> log?
[07:15:28] <enleth> same thing, they're all opened in the same way
[07:15:34] <Bushman> i see
[07:15:44] <Bushman> let me check
[07:19:47] <Bushman> hope, nothing works.
[07:20:03] <Bushman> "can't open file ..."
[07:20:19] <Bushman> wait
[07:20:29] <Bushman> is this coma suppose to be there?
[07:20:32] <Bushman> jthornton: ?
[07:20:40] <jthornton> what comma
[07:21:12] <Bushman> 13:49:07 < jthornton> (LOGOPEN*,*/home/john/linuxcnc/nc_files/log.txt)
[07:21:15] <Bushman> this one
[07:21:28] <jthornton> for logopen it is
[07:21:43] <jthornton> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gcode/overview.html#_logging
[07:22:01] <Bushman> heh, ok. i used it for probeopen unnecesaryly
[07:22:05] <jthornton> I'm in the beer cave and no machines down here
[07:22:22] <Bushman> after all it turns out it opens the file.
[07:22:28] <jthornton> how long does dd take to copy 75 gb?
[07:22:32] <Bushman> i wonder why it didn't want to take absolute path
[07:22:39] <enleth> Bushman: permissions probably
[07:22:49] <Bushman> enleth: same folder?
[07:22:58] <jthornton> what absolute path?
[07:23:17] <Bushman> hmm..
[07:23:21] <Bushman> that's odd.
[07:23:24] <Bushman> it works now
[07:23:24] <enleth> Bushman: the only way it might fail is the operating system telling it it's not possible to open that file relative to the CWD of the process
[07:23:34] <enleth> there's just no checking whatsoever
[07:23:42] <Bushman> i think i'll have to look at the command history and see what i did wrong
[07:24:03] <Bushman> enleth: jthornton: thanks for help ;]
[07:24:08] <enleth> it gets whatever's after "PROBEOPEN " until ")" and feeds that to fopen
[07:24:23] * jthornton thinks it's time for a shower and get the day started
[07:24:38] <Bushman> ok, i'm stupid... i've missed one '/'
[07:24:58] <Bushman> started to look online why it doesn't work...
[07:25:27] <Bushman> found some forum post talking about g38 and probe file security issues and thought that's how it is implemented lol
[07:45:13] * jthornton thinks next time I'll shrink the partition down to 10gb or so then try to dd it...
[07:53:06] <_methods> jthornton: yeah 75gb will take awhile to dd
[07:54:18] <JT-Shop> describe "awhile" lol
[07:54:40] <_methods> hours
[07:54:58] <JT-Shop> lol
[07:54:59] <_methods> depending on your hard drives obviously
[07:55:14] <_methods> i'm assuming since they're 80gb they're spinners
[07:55:16] <JT-Shop> I'll let it run then
[07:55:55] <JT-Shop> the partition on the in is 74GB and the out is a 80GB drive
[07:56:03] <JT-Shop> should I ctrl c it
[07:56:29] <_methods> up to you
[07:56:56] <_methods> http://www.justskins.com/forums/how-long-does-dd-161156.html
[07:57:02] <JT-Shop> I mean no harm if I do?
[07:57:03] <_methods> that post shows how to calculate time
[07:57:06] <_methods> nah no harm
[07:57:18] <_methods> you're wiping the drive anyways
[07:57:22] <_methods> not like you can hurt it
[07:59:05] <_methods> and to view dd progress open a 2nd terminal and put this in
[07:59:17] <_methods> watch -n5 'sudo kill -USR1 $(pgrep ^dd)'
[07:59:27] <_methods> that will give you updates every 5 sec
[07:59:55] <_methods> i've never used pv before but you can use that too
[07:59:57] <_methods> http://askubuntu.com/questions/215505/how-do-you-monitor-the-progress-of-dd
[08:01:27] <_methods> looks like pv gives you a nice little progress bar
[08:01:40] <_methods> if you don't feel like doing math just install pv and start the copy and see how long it says
[08:02:39] <_methods> i think you need to use the --size flag though to get it to give you an ETA
[08:05:38] <jthornton> lol gparted just screwed up my drive
[08:06:22] <_methods> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPClUTfKB-o
[08:06:28] <_methods> cardboard and paperclip cnc lol
[08:06:37] <_methods> how did it screw up your drive?
[08:09:14] <jthornton> some error now it won't let me resize the partition
[08:10:38] <enleth> what filesystem is there?
[08:11:15] <enleth> I learned a long time ago to screw all those fancy do-all partition tools and do the resizing the hard way
[08:11:24] <jthornton> ext4
[08:11:59] <enleth> use resize2fs to shrink it as much as possible
[08:12:25] <jthornton> ok
[08:12:27] <enleth> you can expand it back later to fit the new partition, but first get it as small as it goes
[08:12:38] <enleth> and note the final filesystem size
[08:12:53] <jthornton> do that like resize2fs /dev/sdb?
[08:12:55] <enleth> as a bonus, you'll only copy the data that really needs to be copied
[08:13:04] <enleth> resize2fs --help to give you the idea of options
[08:13:29] <enleth> -M shrinks to the smallest size AFAIR
[08:13:50] <jthornton> resize2fs: invalid option -- '-'
[08:14:05] <_methods> --help
[08:14:09] <enleth> so resize2fs -Mp /dev/sdb will give you minimum with a progress bar
[08:14:37] <_methods> you don't care about the partitions though....
[08:14:44] <enleth> ah, wait
[08:14:44] <_methods> dd is going to overwrite it all
[08:14:52] <enleth> not /dev/sdb, use a partition number
[08:14:57] <_methods> you don't need to use gparted for anything
[08:15:06] <_methods> unless you're trying to compress the original drive
[08:15:12] <enleth> _methods: he is
[08:15:15] <_methods> ahhh
[08:15:19] <enleth> target smaller than source
[08:15:28] <_methods> his target is larger than source
[08:15:32] <_methods> target is 80gb
[08:15:35] <_methods> source is 74gb
[08:15:42] <_methods> or that was my understanding
[08:15:51] <enleth> oh, that was the other way around yesterday or so
[08:15:53] <jthornton> you understand correctly
[08:16:07] <enleth> anyway, getting the filesystem shrunk will tell you what to copy
[08:16:11] <_methods> and you're trying to use gparted on teh target drive then
[08:16:11] <jthornton> I did find out that the two identical drives were not the same model
[08:16:21] <_methods> which you don't need to if you are
[08:16:26] <_methods> dd overwrites all
[08:16:29] <enleth> now, I usually don't copy the whole drive partition table and all due to alignment issues
[08:16:29] <jthornton> gparted on the source drive
[08:16:40] <_methods> ok
[08:16:49] <_methods> sorry i was misunderstanding then
[08:17:01] <_methods> i thought you were trying to gparted the target drive
[08:17:04] <enleth> if the native block size is different between the drives, dding the whole thing will make the target drive perform poorly
[08:17:26] <jthornton> the source is on a 800GB drive and the partition was 74GB
[08:17:28] <enleth> it will work, but having a partition start in the middle of the physical block sucks
[08:17:55] <_methods> ohhhhh
[08:18:08] <_methods> i thought you were dd'ng the whole drive
[08:18:12] <_methods> not a partition
[08:18:36] <jthornton> I don't know what I'm doing with dd
[08:19:17] <_methods> well i'll shut up i've never dd'd a partition to a new drive like that
[08:19:25] <enleth> jthornton: ok, just to be sure we're on the same page here: there's just this one partition on the source drive?
[08:19:33] <enleth> and you want the same thing on the target
[08:19:56] <jthornton> one partition and the swap
[08:20:01] <enleth> ok
[08:20:06] <jthornton> yes I want to clone the drive
[08:20:30] <enleth> ok, don't touch the source drive with any partitioning tools
[08:20:39] <_methods> ^^
[08:20:46] <enleth> use anything you like to create a fresh partition table on the target
[08:20:46] <jthornton> too late for that :(
[08:21:03] <enleth> well, no need to worry I guess as long as the filesystem still mounts
[08:21:34] <enleth> make sure you create a fresh table on the target, the partitioning tool will know what block sizes and alignments to use, that's important for performance
[08:21:59] <enleth> there should be an option in gparted or something to wipe the MBR and create a fresh one
[08:22:04] <miss0r> jthornton, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MovingLinuxPartition
[08:22:05] <jthornton> ok dev/sda1 is 10.13GB now
[08:22:11] <enleth> just select the right drive
[08:22:54] <enleth> miss0r: I'd prefer we don't try to get him use three different sources of information at the same time, *especially* if one of them is an ubuntu wiki
[08:22:57] <jthornton> ok let me see
[08:23:19] <miss0r> enleth, Alright, i'll mind my own ;)
[08:23:35] <enleth> jthornton: as in, resize2fs reported that the fs is shrunk to 10.13GB?
[08:24:36] <enleth> jthornton: the other thing I'd like to know is which drive is which
[08:24:51] <enleth> you mentioned sda1 now, is that the source partition
[08:24:52] <jthornton> ok the source drive boots up so it must be ok
[08:25:18] <_methods> yeah pastebin your drive info probably make it easier
[08:25:36] <Valen> I just upgraded from 2.4something to 2.7somethingelse
[08:25:44] <Valen> holy crap the PID is so much better it seems
[08:25:47] <jthornton> the source drive is the 700GB drive with 10.13GB dev/sda1 partition
[08:26:00] <enleth> jthornton: what he said ^. fdisk -l /dev/sda, paste output to pastebin
[08:26:06] <enleth> same with the other drive
[08:26:08] <Valen> I don't know if its the pid or some other whatsit, but my loops are at least 50% tighter
[08:26:24] <Valen> P has gone from 7 to 25 or better on all my axies
[08:26:25] <jthornton> let me fire up irc on that computer
[08:26:31] <enleth> sure
[08:26:42] <_methods> are you ssh'd into it?
[08:26:50] <Valen> ferror is down by 50% at least
[08:26:52] <enleth> that would help
[08:27:04] <cnc-1> ok I'm here
[08:27:22] <enleth> cnc-1: are you booted from the source drive or some livecd right now?
[08:27:48] <cnc-1> I'm on the source drive but I can boot to a different drive
[08:28:02] <enleth> try mount -o remount,ro /
[08:28:21] <enleth> if you can get it to be remounted read-only, you don't have to use a livecd
[08:28:52] <enleth> you don't want to copy a filesystem that's mounted read-write at the same time though, syslog or something might be writing to it as it's being copied
[08:29:02] <cnc-1> I have 3 hard drives plugged in one with linuxmint one empty and the source so I can just boot to the linuxmint drive
[08:29:21] <enleth> ok, just see if it remounts to read-only
[08:29:25] <enleth> if not, boot mint
[08:29:41] <enleth> mount with no arguments will tell you if it's rw or ro
[08:29:47] <cnc-1> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/16094687/
[08:30:26] <enleth> ok, so we want to get sda1 to sdb, right?
[08:30:34] <enleth> no, wait
[08:30:38] <enleth> sdc1 to sdb
[08:30:55] <cnc-1> mount: / is busy
[08:30:57] <enleth> sdb is clean, sdc is the source, sda is your mint disk
[08:31:07] <cnc-1> I'll just boot to the linuxmint drive brb
[08:31:10] <enleth> ok, screw it, we could force it but no need to
[08:31:14] <enleth> sure
[08:32:07] <enleth> jthornton: if you're ever in a situation where you must copy the filesystem using the OS that's on it, switching to runlevel 1/single user mode will do the trick
[08:32:45] <enleth> unless it's a systemd-based distro, in which case I haven't got a fucking idea if the single user mode is still a thing under systemd
[08:34:12] <enleth> supposedly it's "systemctl isolate rescue.target"
[08:35:28] <_methods> heh gotta make a new one of those http://i.imgur.com/6M7xzgP.jpg
[08:35:45] <cloning-hell> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/16094759/
[08:36:39] <cloning-hell> I booted to sda and need to clone sdb to sdc
[08:37:14] <enleth> cloning-hell: OK.
[08:37:16] <archivist> _methods, you need a CMM :)
[08:37:22] <_methods> not for that lol
[08:37:27] <_methods> you see what they did to it
[08:37:32] <SpeedEvil> XXCoder: neat
[08:37:41] <archivist> yes, you have to copy that as well
[08:37:41] <_methods> they like to break stuff at the mill lol
[08:38:01] <_methods> hahah no they'll recreate that later at the mill
[08:38:06] <_methods> i'll make it like new
[08:38:07] <enleth> cloning-hell: wait, isn't it sdc to sdb now?
[08:38:24] <enleth> damn, old paste
[08:38:29] <_methods> sdb is his source now and sdc is target
[08:38:41] <enleth> closed the old one for good now
[08:38:48] <yasnak> what do you use for your travelers?
[08:38:57] <enleth> yeah, that's clear now
[08:38:58] <yasnak> looks somewhat like JB but customized?
[08:39:05] <_methods> E2
[08:39:10] <_methods> shoptech E2
[08:39:15] <yasnak> ah, yeah I've been looking into that. Like it?
[08:39:19] <_methods> love it
[08:39:28] <yasnak> Ever had anything else?
[08:39:31] <yasnak> Sorry, off topic lol
[08:39:32] <_methods> job boss
[08:39:34] <yasnak> ah
[08:39:35] <_methods> np
[08:39:36] <enleth> cloning-hell: ok, create new partitions on sdc - the filesystem one, however large you want it to leave some swap space
[08:39:43] <yasnak> so better eh? I have jobboss now. Exact blows
[08:39:54] <cloning-hell> ok
[08:39:59] <_methods> well all that stuff is kinda the same
[08:40:11] <_methods> so basically it's garbage in garbage out
[08:40:15] <yasnak> lol
[08:40:15] <enleth> cloning-hell: and you can create the swap as well now
[08:40:19] <_methods> if you don't feed it good info then you know lol
[08:40:31] <enleth> cloning-hell: exact sizes don't matter much if the filesystem shrunk to 10GB
[08:40:46] <_methods> it's takin me a couple years to get this shop on board with it
[08:40:51] <_methods> but it works great for us
[08:41:33] <cloning-hell> enleth: want to move to a private tab?
[08:41:53] <_methods> but it's great it does all the time clock stuff, data collection, quoting, ISO
[08:41:56] <_methods> we'd be lost without it
[08:42:06] <yasnak> yeah
[08:42:20] <_methods> and obviously the routing lol
[08:42:26] <yasnak> its just that nobody can understand that garbage in = garbage out
[08:42:30] <yasnak> meh
[08:42:34] <_methods> yeah it's a constant fight for me
[08:42:38] <yasnak> almost a fulltime job correcting others bullshit
[08:42:42] <_methods> the owner likes to fill it with trash
[08:42:43] <yasnak> nobody can maths
[08:42:48] <_methods> and i can't relly just yell at him lol
[08:42:49] <yasnak> yep here too
[08:43:01] <yasnak> or just not follow procedures then everything gets wacked.
[08:43:11] <_methods> the guys on the floor are doing great finally
[08:43:20] <_methods> they clock in and out on stuff way better now
[08:43:32] <_methods> that's always a tough fight
[08:43:51] <_methods> but now i just need to get the quotes and purchasing put in right............
[08:43:52] <yasnak> jobboss
[08:43:56] <_methods> my final battle lol
[08:43:57] <yasnak> teaming them to use data collection
[08:44:14] <yasnak> *teaching
[08:44:17] <yasnak> ugh
[08:44:28] <_methods> yeah i got our data collection going great now
[08:44:39] <yasnak> so you've got a waterjet eh
[08:44:43] <_methods> yeah
[08:45:03] <yasnak> how close of spec can it hold? If say someone needed to cut out rough shapes of some plate stock
[08:45:05] <_methods> https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=en&pb=!1s0x88fe8cd4ed3eac6f:0xc4e1b866ffec5c61!2m5!2m2!1i80!2i80!3m1!2i100!3m1!7e115!4s/maps/place/sterling%2Bprecision%2Bmachining/@33.0523226,-80.2279619,3a,75y,97.77h,90t/data%3D*213m4*211e1*213m2*211sewm1vZ4L-8wAAAQfCWhIHw*212e0*214m2*213m1*211s0x0:0xc4e1b866ffec5c61!5ssterling+precision+machining+-+Google+Search&imagekey=!1e2!2sewm1vZ4L-8wAAAQfCWhIHw&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjt
[08:45:07] <_methods> n-f1tbHMAhXHSyYKHUj-DjsQoB8IhAEwCg
[08:45:13] <_methods> you can do google walk thru
[08:45:25] <_methods> oh busted linky
[08:45:47] <_methods> https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=en&pb=!1s0x88fe8cd4ed3eac6f:0xc4e1b866ffec5c61!2m5!2m2!1i80!2i80!3m1!2i100!3m1!7e115!4s/maps/place/sterling%2Bprecision%2Bmachining/@33.0523226,-80.2279619,3a,75y,97.77h,90t/data%3D*213m4*211e1*213m2*211sewm1vZ4L-8wAAAQfCWhIHw*212e0*214m2*213m1*211s0x0:0xc4e1b866ffec5c61!5ssterling+precision+machining+-+Google+Search&imagekey=!1e2!2sewm1vZ4L-8wAAAQfCWhIHw&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjt
[08:45:49] <_methods> n-f1tbHMAhXHSyYKHUj-DjsQoB8IhAEwCg
[08:45:52] <_methods> damn line too long
[08:46:12] <_methods> https://goo.gl/0MCP75
[08:46:14] <_methods> there we go
[08:46:15] <yasnak> very nice
[08:46:23] <_methods> just a small job shop
[08:46:35] <_methods> we don't have fancy screw machines like some people lol
[08:47:41] <_methods> but yeah the waterjet isn't exactly accurate
[08:48:35] <_methods> like that cylinder bearing mount i'll have to cut the hole .100" undersize so they can get it to clean up concentric and i'll leave .06" on the bottom to clean up for mounting
[08:48:54] <_methods> especially being that thick
[08:49:03] <_methods> 2.5"
[08:52:39] <yasnak> hmmm
[08:52:46] <yasnak> so what about 0.5" plate?
[08:52:52] <yasnak> better off using laser?
[08:52:56] <_methods> well it depends on the jet
[08:53:04] <_methods> and depends on what you're doing after to the part
[08:53:12] <_methods> but yeah we use laser for 1/2"
[08:53:19] <yasnak> Gotcha
[08:53:22] <_methods> except armor plate
[08:53:26] <_methods> then we'll use the jet
[08:53:33] <_methods> since heat and armor = hell
[08:53:36] <yasnak> Trying to figure out more cost effective way then stacking them 6" high and EDM'ing
[08:53:56] <_methods> well i don't know what you're doing exactly so hard to tell
[08:54:06] <_methods> but laser will cut 1/2" well
[08:54:19] <yasnak> yeah, just crappy alro 0.5" 304 plate. Shit stock
[08:54:25] <yasnak> Hard spots everywhere haha
[08:54:31] <_methods> ahhh lasers love stainless
[08:54:45] <_methods> i'd definitely do that with laser
[08:54:48] <yasnak> yeah
[08:54:53] <yasnak> Just another machine though...sigh
[08:54:59] <_methods> sub out?
[08:55:08] <_methods> lasers aren't exactly cheap
[08:55:15] <_methods> or at least ones that cut 1/2" 304
[08:55:20] <yasnak> yeah true but we buy worse machines for less use haha
[08:55:26] <_methods> hahah
[08:55:42] <_methods> well i don't know what we'd do without laser
[08:55:51] <yasnak> I've never ran one
[08:55:53] <_methods> makes life much easier for sure
[08:56:04] <_methods> knock out fixtures real quick
[08:56:06] <_methods> clean cuts
[08:56:10] <_methods> hold tight tol
[08:56:19] <_methods> laser is +/- .005
[08:56:23] <yasnak> I heard about laser drilling
[08:56:25] <_methods> but it will usually hold better than that
[08:56:28] <yasnak> is that something else entirely?
[08:56:35] <_methods> yeah i don't know about laser drilling
[08:57:01] <yasnak> yeah
[08:57:16] <yasnak> just read about it in one of the mags.
[08:58:13] <_methods> yeah i don't know anything about that i'll have to look into it
[08:58:17] <_methods> probably not our bag though
[08:58:23] <_methods> since we're just a little job shop
[08:58:31] <_methods> sounds kinda niche
[08:58:37] <_methods> probably good for an edm shop or something
[08:59:07] <yasnak> yeah
[08:59:30] <yasnak> Seems like a nice shop though, probably even allowed to open the doors during summer?
[08:59:39] <_methods> hahah yeah they're open now
[08:59:44] <_methods> we get to wear shorts too
[09:00:40] <yasnak> :/
[09:00:48] <yasnak> BRB. Updating my resume
[09:00:51] <yasnak> lol
[09:00:58] <_methods> hahah come on down
[09:01:23] <yasnak> lol
[09:01:25] <yasnak> If only
[09:01:44] <yasnak> I've got family in this one that if I left, they'd be totally screwed. Never work for family man
[09:01:53] <Bushman> http://i.imgur.com/oYxVHFj.jpg
[09:01:54] <Bushman> http://i.imgur.com/U48WguN.jpg
[09:01:55] <Bushman> http://i.imgur.com/wvdUxjj.jpg
[09:01:56] <_methods> haha no doubt
[09:02:01] <Bushman> DONE! ;]
[09:03:45] <mase-tech> wau clean
[09:03:50] <mase-tech> cleanshit
[09:04:52] <Bushman> yea!
[09:05:02] <yasnak> welp, back to the floor. going to try to keep my workplace murder rate low today ;)
[09:05:14] <_methods> hahah good luck
[09:05:30] <Bushman> Gcoderipper is awesome
[09:05:52] <Bushman> lets you level even a warped laminate to etch PCBs acurately
[09:06:02] <Bushman> yasnak: good luck!
[09:06:08] <Bushman> don't die!
[09:06:09] <Bushman> :D
[09:23:04] <enleth> jthornton: how's it doing?
[09:25:03] <Bushman> enleth: seen the PCB?
[09:25:04] <Bushman> :P
[09:25:06] <Bushman> http://imgur.com/gallery/5QMsY
[09:25:31] <jthornton> just booting up now, uplugged all the other drives etc
[09:25:43] <enleth> Bushman: nice. I'm not really a fan of milled PCBs, but that looks fine.
[09:26:27] <Bushman> well, i can't say i'm a fan... but for sure it's usefull when rapid prototyping :P
[09:26:29] <enleth> Bushman: mostly due to the abrasive dust produced by milling glass-epoxy laminates
[09:26:58] <Bushman> yea, that sucks... but i've done my best to not produce it as much :P
[09:26:59] <jthornton> error: no such device: bunch of numbers Entering rescue mode
[09:27:12] <jthornton> grub rescue>
[09:27:34] <Bushman> used auto-leveling for the copper so i could only etch as thin as i could
[09:28:00] <enleth> jthornton: oh well, grub must be confused, probably got a wrong device ID because they were ordered differently when grub-install was run
[09:28:05] <enleth> jthornton: give me a sec
[09:28:12] <jthornton> ok
[09:28:18] <enleth> I have to look up this dumb syntax grub uses for manual booting
[09:30:52] <jthornton> https://www.linux.com/learn/how-rescue-non-booting-grub-2-linux
[09:35:06] <enleth> jthornton: see query
[09:52:29] <Simonous> you guys know anything about RequestTracker4 or Redmine?
[10:00:57] <tjtr33> jthornton, just forthehalibut https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NxMlG3M40k&list=PLEF99DC769837161B&index=2
[10:02:14] <tjtr33> de mighty mighty bosstones yah!
[10:03:04] <tjtr33> in the state i wondered why beer came on those tiny 12oz bottles
[10:03:33] <tjtr33> now i get these 1 litre LEOs and i wonder
[10:03:53] <tjtr33> why does beer come on these tiny bottles
[10:36:32] <pink_vampire|3> hi
[10:38:45] <maxcnc> hi all
[10:39:08] <pink_vampire> how can I clamp sheet of 1/16" aluminum to the table?
[10:39:41] <pink_vampire> hi maxcnc
[10:39:59] <jdh> double sided tape
[10:40:25] <pink_vampire> it's not very stable
[10:40:32] <archivist> parts bend when removing
[10:40:58] <DaViruz> i use it a lot for fibreglass sheets
[10:41:09] <maxcnc> dependig on shape of part maybe drill first then mount on mdf
[10:41:14] <DaViruz> but removing alinium parts may be tricky
[10:41:34] <pink_vampire> http://i.imgur.com/x6MB0fJ.png
[10:41:52] <pink_vampire> I want to make those tags
[10:42:28] <maxcnc> pink_vampire: like this part http://landauer-weihnachtscircus-gmbh.de/mini_cnc.jpg
[10:42:44] <DaViruz> i'd use laminated plastic för that
[10:42:51] <jdh> drill holes and mount to spoilboard
[10:44:25] <pink_vampire> one sec I will upload better picture
[10:44:35] <maxcnc> no its ok
[10:44:51] <maxcnc> you only need the holes or also the outbound
[10:45:02] <jdh> or just buy the premade label fits the switch
[10:45:04] <DaViruz> i've made a lot of tags like that using double sided tape
[10:45:29] <pink_vampire> http://i.imgur.com/TX3EDSA.png
[10:45:58] <maxcnc> till later
[10:46:01] <pink_vampire> what tape are you using?
[10:46:22] <DaViruz> some scotch model, very thin and quite sticky
[10:46:28] <DaViruz> acrylic adhesive
[10:46:47] <pink_vampire> link?
[10:47:00] <DaViruz> i don't have the exact model i'm afraid
[10:47:06] <DaViruz> but aluminium will be a problem. it will bend.
[10:47:13] <DaViruz> (when removing)
[10:47:26] <DaViruz> unless you can cut it off with a thin wire or something and then dissolve the adhesive
[10:48:41] <DaViruz> maybe superglue it and remove it with a heat gun
[10:58:18] <enleth> that is what clickspring does
[10:58:31] <pink_vampire> DaViruz: I will try it
[10:58:37] <enleth> seems to work even with quite beefy parts
[10:58:39] <pink_vampire> hope for good
[10:59:06] <pink_vampire> I want to make Ice vise
[10:59:34] <enleth> he's even gluing to a lathe faceplate made for this exact purpose
[10:59:35] <pink_vampire> but I'm not sure what type of metal they use
[10:59:50] <enleth> aluminum
[11:00:04] <enleth> and the backing is aluminum as well
[11:00:31] <pink_vampire> so it's just very cold flat aluminum??
[11:01:25] <pink_vampire> and I know they use some freezing media. it's look a bit thicker then water
[11:01:27] <archivist> clockmakers use shellac and melt off the item
[11:02:14] <pink_vampire> archivist: what do you mean?
[11:02:37] <enleth> clickspring usually clamps a thick slab, mills it flat with a flycutter and glues parts to that
[11:02:45] <pink_vampire> do you have more info about it??
[11:04:36] <JT-Shop> engine replacement for the Spyder got approved!
[11:04:49] <jdh> free?
[11:04:58] <JT-Shop> $50
[11:05:17] <jdh> close enough
[11:05:45] <JT-Shop> yea, glad I got the 3 year extended warranty for sure
[11:08:31] <jdh> modbus-tcp from an RX3i plc is a pain to set up. lots of whack rungs for comm request
[12:01:56] <maxcnc> hi all work done for today
[12:05:21] <Polymorphism> excellent =D
[12:05:35] <maxcnc> someone shoudt tell psha his log only records the pingtimeouts from monday on
[12:07:08] <yasnak> yay
[12:07:34] <yasnak> operators pretzel 0.25 bar in spindle telescoping liner
[12:08:07] <yasnak> they get the barfeeder pusher and the bar along sides eachother (they used the wrong sized bar pusher collet)
[12:08:44] <yasnak> jam it, so what do they do? Use the subspindle to try and force it through...going from a jam to jesus bad idea. then they cut the end off that i could have used to pound it back...essentially screwing me
[12:09:00] <yasnak> might need to go get some beer
[12:10:43] <maxcnc> on 4/5 axis drilling a good idee
[12:23:06] <CaptHindsight> JT-Shop: engine died so soon?!
[12:26:09] <JT-Shop> something failed and stopped the pressure oil pump from getting oil into the engine, the scavenging pump still worked so the engine was bone dry and I could not stop for about a mile till I got off the bridge over the Misssissippi
[12:28:09] <maxcnc> bad luck always happens when you dont expect and realy dont need
[12:29:41] <CaptHindsight> that's a bad one, I wonder what got in the pump
[12:40:51] <_methods> yasnak: hydraulic barfeeder?
[12:41:46] <maxcnc> CaptHindsight: no Oil ;-)
[12:45:09] <CaptHindsight> antilube
[12:48:08] <maxcnc> i decided to close the shop early today and go for a extended familie time Gn8
[12:51:15] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20160427-25-of-dubais-buildings-to-be-3d-printed-by-2030-dubai-ruler-sheikh-mohammed-announces.html who wants to live in little plastic houses? :p
[12:56:19] <djdelorie> every 3d printed building I've seen so far has been concrete, not plastic
[12:56:38] <djdelorie> but I still don't want to live in one...
[12:57:28] <gregcnc> foam form poured concrete houses probably go up just as fast
[12:57:53] <CaptHindsight> nonono, 3D printers are only those plastic extruders on wobbly Cartesian platforms, go ask anyone in #reprap
[12:58:18] <djdelorie> heh, even *my* 3D printer isn't cartesian
[12:58:52] <CaptHindsight> djdelorie: so what you are saying is that 3D printers are more than just those repraps?!
[12:59:02] <djdelorie> gregcnc: the advantage of 3D printed houses is you don't have to wait for the forms to be put up or torn down, it just keeps going until the house is done
[12:59:12] <djdelorie> Capt: I'll agree with wobbly plastic, though
[12:59:20] <gregcnc> the forms are part of the house
[12:59:35] <djdelorie> and the walls don't have to be straight :-)
[12:59:36] <CaptHindsight> so a SLA printer is also a 3d printer?
[12:59:43] <evil_ren> yes
[12:59:53] <CaptHindsight> shit, when did this happen?
[12:59:56] <evil_ren> repraps and makerbots are FDM
[13:00:02] <gregcnc> lols
[13:00:10] <djdelorie> FFA/FDM printers are one type of 3D printer
[13:00:22] <_methods> WUT
[13:00:28] <CaptHindsight> SLS printer = 3D printer?
[13:00:56] <djdelorie> commercial ones tend to be sintered powder (laser or chemical) or UV cured
[13:01:24] <_methods> damn you learn something new everyday
[13:01:30] <CaptHindsight> holy crap so I've been making 3d printers all these years and didn't even know it
[13:01:36] <neckro23> so many TLAs around here
[13:02:06] <neckro23> there are at least 3 distinct ways to 3d print a thing
[13:02:12] <_methods> WUT
[13:02:15] <djdelorie> SLS is 3D, yes. In general, anything that takes a 3D model and makes a 3D object is a 3D printer, although typically it refers to additive processes (i.e. not cnc mills)
[13:02:16] <_methods> impossiboru
[13:02:22] <CaptHindsight> 3?
[13:02:28] <_methods> count them
[13:02:30] <_methods> 3
[13:02:32] <_methods> 1-2-3
[13:02:36] <djdelorie> FDM, SLS, and UV
[13:02:40] <CaptHindsight> thats 6
[13:02:51] <_methods> are you counting my -'s
[13:02:58] <_methods> don't count them
[13:03:08] <gregcnc> I was sick and my head is not right still, this hurts I can't do it
[13:03:26] <djdelorie> UV = SLA = stereolithography
[13:03:32] <CaptHindsight> how about SLM? or inkjet?
[13:03:51] <djdelorie> neckro23: complain to the TGC (TLA Grievance Committee) :-)
[13:04:11] <djdelorie> inkjet is like SLS it just uses a chemical glue instead of thermal
[13:04:13] <neckro23> I did, they tried to get me to fill out a TGF
[13:04:43] <djdelorie> you need an FFT then - Form Filling Tool :-)
[13:04:54] <CaptHindsight> inkjet can be thermal or radcure?
[13:05:28] <CaptHindsight> or just print a binder (adhesive)?
[13:05:36] <CaptHindsight> this is so exciting
[13:05:41] <djdelorie> typically they print a binder, or use water-soluble glues in the powder
[13:05:43] <neckro23> I still have to figure out if I can do FDM with my table... wonder if it's accurate enough (probably)
[13:06:08] <djdelorie> if you use water-soluble glues and water-based dyes, you get colorful prints :-)
[13:06:23] <CaptHindsight> what if the powder isn't water soluble? Can you jet a solvent or radcure binder?
[13:06:49] <djdelorie> yup, lots of options as long as the chemistry works with the mechanicals
[13:07:24] <djdelorie> you could do it with sawdust and wood glue if you wanted, or metal powder and UV-cured epoxy, etc.
[13:07:30] <gregcnc> and it doesn't leak onto your phone
[13:07:43] <djdelorie> heh, yes, if you're using a phone as the imager :-)
[13:07:53] <CaptHindsight> can you jet a water soluble after cure binder with non water soluble powders like metals or silicas?
[13:08:03] <djdelorie> good use for those cheap 60" LCD TVs too
[13:09:10] <djdelorie> capt: probably. I know they have water soluble FDM filaments for printing "scaffolding"
[13:09:16] <CaptHindsight> sawdust and a non water soluble binder could make water resistant wood parts
[13:09:28] <djdelorie> dual-head setup, so when you're done you just rince away the support parts
[13:09:29] <CaptHindsight> I think we are on to something here
[13:09:42] <gregcnc> MDF printer?
[13:10:11] <djdelorie> the trick usually isn't the mechanical parts or software, it's the chemistry required.
[13:10:13] <CaptHindsight> what if you combine a SLA printer with inkjet and FDM? is that still a 3D printer?
[13:10:50] <djdelorie> I'm not sure how you would, but yes
[13:11:20] <djdelorie> "3D printer" is a very vague and widely-inclusive term, which is why there are so many TLAs describing specific techniques
[13:11:26] <CaptHindsight> djdelorie: like what monomers and oligomers to use along with the type of initiator to polymerize them?
[13:11:42] <djdelorie> just like "CNC" is a very broad category, including many types of machinery
[13:12:04] <djdelorie> yes, and getting the set times and slumping "just right" so that the result is self-supporting
[13:12:32] <CaptHindsight> or how to stabilize inert particles suspended in a solvent/vehicle or monomer/oligomer?
[13:12:33] <gregcnc> wait I thought cnc machines where just trim routers on wobbly Cartesian platforms
[13:12:54] <djdelorie> gregcnc: even my wobbly cnc doesn't use a trim router :-)
[13:13:04] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: just Chinaco routers or those combo 3d printer routers
[13:13:16] <gregcnc> but thousands of youtube videos prove otherwise
[13:13:39] <CaptHindsight> sounds like a possible conspiracy
[13:13:42] <djdelorie> capt: plus all the heat/time/pressure issues, etc, etc. Even a plain FDM printer has to work in a "sweet spot" to get good results
[13:14:12] <djdelorie> and even that sweet spot varies from spool to spool
[13:14:15] <gregcnc> seems like there might be more to these topics than instuctables has to offer?
[13:14:17] <CaptHindsight> djdelorie: you mean things like surface tension, viscosity, adhesion etc?
[13:14:47] <djdelorie> yup, especially inter-layer adhesion and "stringing" for FDM
[13:15:01] <djdelorie> but now I think we're just throwing words around to see who runs out first...
[13:15:33] <gregcnc> but isn't that the internet?
[13:15:43] <CaptHindsight> why do FDM printers need a radar screen looking GUI to operate properly?
[13:16:16] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3dprintingdatabase.org/sites/default/files/3dsoftware/printrun1.jpg for instance
[13:16:44] <djdelorie> That's just the 3Dprinter equivalent of an MPG
[13:17:03] <CaptHindsight> how come FDM printers only extrude from one nozzle at a time?
[13:17:20] <djdelorie> they don't. Multi-extruders exist
[13:17:51] <djdelorie> it's just so rare that you'd be extruding the same pattern with a fixed offset, that they have to take turns for each layer
[13:17:53] <CaptHindsight> do they extrude from multiple nozzle simultaneously? like and inkjet head
[13:18:01] <CaptHindsight> and/an
[13:18:25] <djdelorie> since FDM printers follow a path, not a raster, and since each nozzle typically has a unique path, they typically run sequentially.
[13:18:40] <djdelorie> However, I've seen setups that print multiples of one object simultanously using multiple nozzles
[13:18:42] <CaptHindsight> can't they also raster scan?
[13:19:04] <djdelorie> the ability for FDM to print "pixels" is severely limited by the physics of FDM at the moment
[13:19:25] <djdelorie> probably half the FDM issues are due to starting and stopping an extrusion path
[13:19:45] <djdelorie> prints that have lots of short paths are considered "torture tests" for FDM printers
[13:20:11] <djdelorie> SLA and SLS are raster-printed
[13:20:24] <CaptHindsight> maybe they should investigate the use of different types of thermoplastics or even thermosets
[13:20:41] <djdelorie> you just summarized most of the FDM industry :-)
[13:20:53] <CaptHindsight> isn't the main problem poor extruder design?
[13:21:21] <djdelorie> the latest tech from FDM is a new filament based on PET-G polymer. If they can get the price down and colors up it might replace PLA and ABS
[13:21:24] <CaptHindsight> and the environment they are used in
[13:22:03] <djdelorie> on the mech side, nozzles are pretty well understood tech.
[13:22:25] <CaptHindsight> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyethylene_terephthalate = PET-G?
[13:22:25] <djdelorie> precision filament feeders exist as to the whole range of positioning tech
[13:22:34] <djdelorie> yes, that one, but glycol modified
[13:22:56] <djdelorie> the key issues - mech wise - are temperature control and bed adhesion
[13:23:03] <CaptHindsight> so whats the problem with colors?
[13:23:16] <CaptHindsight> nah, it dopes making printers
[13:23:35] <djdelorie> on the chemistry side, getting a plastic which has a wide "plastic" range without all the negative side effects, is the trick
[13:23:48] <djdelorie> PET-G just isn't available in the same wide range of colors that PLA and ABS are
[13:24:24] <djdelorie> PLA is even available with organic and metallic fillers, letting you "print metal" or "print wood" sort of
[13:24:45] <djdelorie> PET-G filament just isn't that mature a commercial product yet.
[13:24:55] <CaptHindsight> ah so they are having problems sourcing and controlling the profits on the filaments
[13:25:15] <djdelorie> yeah, it's still more expensive than PLA/ABS for the same quality
[13:25:41] <djdelorie> the spool I got doesn't even have a consistent diameter, so it sometimes jams in the feed tubes
[13:26:07] <djdelorie> they're also working on getting the glass temperature down to be in range of popular units
[13:26:20] <CaptHindsight> can't someone just get an extruder and make PET-G filament?
[13:26:23] <djdelorie> anything over 245C requires a different hot end assembly
[13:26:35] <djdelorie> there are people doing that too, but the results are even less consistent
[13:26:46] <djdelorie> look up "filastruder"
[13:27:22] <CaptHindsight> this sounds like it's under the control of those without an understanding of thermoplastics
[13:27:56] <djdelorie> so was flight in the early 1900s
[13:28:01] <djdelorie> and computers in the 60's
[13:28:08] <djdelorie> and CNC in the... when did linuxcnc start? ;-)
[13:28:45] <djdelorie> there are huge companies involved *and* hobbyists, but the people with the know-how also have the must-profit
[13:29:16] <CaptHindsight> nah, sounds like hobbyists
[13:29:45] <djdelorie> but the diameter issue is more about the mechanicals during the cooling phase. Commercial units are room-sized with all sorts of monitoring and feedback loops
[13:30:02] <djdelorie> not something a hobbyist can afford, but that doesn't stop hobbyists from trying :-)
[13:30:26] <djdelorie> sometimes good enough is good enough, and I've seen some printers with filament measuring devices built-in to compensate
[13:31:13] <djdelorie> I mean, look at my cnc machine - I'm definitely in the "hobbyist" category here, but that doesn't stop me from getting stuff done with it
[13:33:28] <djdelorie> and now teknic is making servos that use stepper signals, just like I did years ago...
[13:34:13] <Swapper_> andypugh: Hi, are you there ?
[13:35:47] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScvdFeh1aOw cnc this for world fashion domination
[13:35:58] <Swapper_> maybe somone else knows if there have been done any improvments on the tooltable functions in linuxcnc like this > http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ToolDatabase
[13:37:17] <gregcnc> what if you have body hair?
[13:37:57] <CaptHindsight> it help it stay on longer
[13:38:20] <djdelorie> capt: Saturday Night Live invented that decades ago with the "Spray Club for Men" to fix hair loss
[13:38:36] <CaptHindsight> chia hair
[13:38:44] <djdelorie> pretty much
[13:39:19] <Swapper_> "spray on fashon" the manly version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_uzFQwh0wk
[13:39:40] <CaptHindsight> how would you 3d print a simple tool like a bottle opener with a plastic handle?
[13:40:26] <CaptHindsight> metal frame with plastic handle
[13:40:30] <djdelorie> you print two halves of the handle and glue them together over the metal part
[13:40:39] <djdelorie> not everything works as a single piece :-)
[13:41:00] <djdelorie> but there are ways of inserting a metal piece during the print
[13:41:06] <djdelorie> such as a captured nut
[13:41:18] <djdelorie> you just pause the print, move the head out of the way, insert the part, and continue
[13:41:53] <djdelorie> that doesn't magically solve the mechanical problems (like the handle falling apart the first time you use it)
[13:42:03] <djdelorie> you still have to have good engineering based on the materials and processes involved
[13:42:15] <CaptHindsight> could you print the plastic around the outside of a metal part?
[13:42:23] <djdelorie> maybe
[13:42:48] <djdelorie> you could start the print, print up through a cavity for the metal part, pause, insert the metal part, then print the other half of the handle
[13:43:15] <djdelorie> it depends on if the transition happens on a "plane" parallel to the build platform
[13:43:21] <djdelorie> since FDM works in layers
[13:43:39] <djdelorie> so you can't add a part that sticks *up* as the nozzle might bump into it
[13:43:47] <CaptHindsight> could you hold the metal part in a 4th axis and rotate the metal part while printing plastic around it?
[13:44:12] <djdelorie> I've seen 5-axis FDM printers that print with liquid metal, so yes
[13:44:22] <Swapper_> is it a one off part?
[13:44:27] <Swapper_> injection mold it ?
[13:44:29] <Swapper_> over the metal
[13:44:41] <CaptHindsight> could they print a thermoplastic?
[13:44:44] <djdelorie> faster, dip it in epoxy and mold it
[13:45:02] <djdelorie> "can" sure, the big question is - is it profitable to develop such technology?
[13:45:45] <djdelorie> a delta printer could be converted to a 5-axis printer, add a fourth (sixth?) axis, write a TON of CAM software that knows what to do with it...
[13:46:00] <CaptHindsight> besides selling printers to the unwary how is FDM profitable for manufacturing?
[13:46:06] <djdelorie> I might have evne seen such a thing on youtube once...
[13:46:27] <djdelorie> FDM gives you a faster turnaround for prototypes, to test designs before mass production
[13:46:40] <djdelorie> SLA or SLS is more common though if you use it a lot
[13:46:52] <CaptHindsight> SLA is 10-100x faster
[13:47:14] <CaptHindsight> and much higher res
[13:47:14] <djdelorie> and 10-100x more expensive
[13:47:18] <CaptHindsight> nope
[13:47:27] <djdelorie> the big win for FDM is the low entry cost
[13:47:42] <djdelorie> (I'm speaking commercially, not hobby level)
[13:47:52] <CaptHindsight> SLA printers start ~$1K
[13:47:53] <djdelorie> SLS and SLA can also do shapes that FDM can't
[13:48:12] <djdelorie> FDM printers start at $300
[13:48:32] <djdelorie> and can sit idle essentially forever
[13:48:48] <djdelorie> but the gap is rapidly closing, yes
[13:49:11] <CaptHindsight> do SLA printer require constant relocation due to boredom or similar?
[13:49:30] <CaptHindsight> like hand tools?
[13:49:39] <Tom_itx> the prof showed us his lab yesterday and one thing that impressed me was a timing belt they had printed to fit
[13:49:46] <Tom_itx> very flexible and strong
[13:50:25] <CaptHindsight> Tom_itx: single material?
[13:50:26] <gregcnc> my handtools relocate themselves it seems If I don't used them often enough.
[13:50:29] <Tom_itx> yes
[13:50:38] <Tom_itx> i don't recall what it was
[13:50:56] <Tom_itx> they also imbed carbon fiber in some of their prints
[13:51:05] <djdelorie> my stuff seems to get together for the "forgotton tool convention" once a year
[13:51:20] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: that what those locked cabinets are for, they sneak around when you're not looking otherwise
[13:51:25] <gregcnc> this weekend i saw some FDM parts printed in wax the guy was claiming had 6um accuracy, they certainly looked nice. investment casting application
[13:51:44] <gregcnc> right, more tools than tool prisons
[13:51:57] <djdelorie> lookup "ninjaflex" - FDM for making hugely flexible yet somewhat indestructible parts
[13:52:18] <CaptHindsight> i found that having 3-4x of everything also helps to make sure you have the tool when you need it
[13:52:24] <Tom_itx> also got to see the metal printer finally
[13:52:38] <djdelorie> accuracy != resolution in FDM. I can position my nozzle pretty accurately, but it's still 0.5mm diameter.
[13:52:40] <Tom_itx> about 16 bottles of gas sitting beside it all hooked up
[13:53:15] <gregcnc> I would think accuracy also depends on the ability to feed the proper volume of material
[13:53:39] <CaptHindsight> Tom_itx: dmls? direct metal laser sintering?
[13:53:44] <Tom_itx> yes
[13:54:06] <Tom_itx> they were doing some ti test specimens at the time
[13:54:11] <CaptHindsight> also a 3d printer I imagine
[13:54:18] <Tom_itx> yup
[13:54:58] <Tom_itx> they bond the powder to a work plate and when it's done send it out to be heat treated before removing the parts
[13:55:28] <CaptHindsight> djdelorie: http://omnexus.specialchem.com/ if you want to learn about plastics
[13:55:48] <CaptHindsight> not f###ing reprap
[13:55:54] <djdelorie> I want to learn about everything, but I have to draw the line somewhere :-)
[13:55:59] <Tom_itx> i suppose i should have taken more pics
[13:56:50] <djdelorie> gregcnc: that too, and like I said, consistent diameter is key for that since it affects extruded volume
[13:57:05] <Tom_itx> they had some sample sun gears they had printed all as one that worked
[13:57:35] <Tom_itx> had some metal chain they printed
[13:57:36] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: they use open loop extruders
[13:57:47] <gregcnc> There is a dog(s) that leave random 3D prints by the sidewalks in my neighborhood. fairly durable in the winter, but the rains have deteriorated them to nothing. must be water based binder
[13:58:04] <Tom_itx> pretty wild what you can do with those
[13:58:07] <CaptHindsight> with some fats and oils
[13:58:28] <CaptHindsight> biocompatible as well
[13:59:13] <gregcnc> chicken byproduct and grain feedstock according to commercials
[13:59:41] <djdelorie> amusingly, PLA, today's common filament, is made from food stuff...
[13:59:55] <CaptHindsight> https://musicwork.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/cowdung-house.jpg ow if you can gets these dogs (as you call them) to change their diets this might be possible
[14:00:40] <CaptHindsight> https://i.ytimg.com/vi/CtDSUA0qQ1I/maxresdefault.jpg
[14:00:44] <djdelorie> unfortunately, like food stuff, it doesn't fare well in a hot car in the summer...
[14:01:09] <CaptHindsight> Africa is like summer all year around
[14:03:09] <CaptHindsight> poly lactic acid, isn't lactic acid the stuff that builds up in your muscles and causes soreness?
[14:03:37] <CaptHindsight> is that why FDM is so painful to hear about?
[14:04:10] <jdh> but you can use an arduino
[14:04:33] <djdelorie> heh. Yes (about the lactic acid) and no (about why fdm is painful ;)
[14:06:30] <MrSunshine> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf3h4m9VC6k yey new lathe up and running =)
[14:08:06] <CaptHindsight> MrSunshine: yours?
[14:08:44] <MrSunshine> CaptHindsight: yeah
[14:08:51] <CaptHindsight> what year?
[14:08:54] <djdelorie> it looks as "new" as my "new" lathe :-)
[14:08:57] <CaptHindsight> or decade
[14:09:01] <DaViruz> MrSunshine: new? it says old right there in the title!
[14:09:12] <MrSunshine> CaptHindsight: somewhere around 1910 or so =)
[14:09:14] <CaptHindsight> new old
[14:09:34] <djdelorie> mine is 1922, getting close to the century mark...
[14:09:54] <gregcnc> Daviurz turns out the Emco F1 stud is 1mm shorter than normal bt30
[14:10:10] <DaViruz> oh
[14:10:57] <DaViruz> i ordered a cheap bt30 er16 holder, haven't ordered any f1 studs yet
[14:12:47] <gregcnc> scaled from the turret cross section, the existing taper is a couple mm longer than the spindle taper at the small end, but i'm going to check with some blue
[14:13:16] <DaViruz> does that really matter though?
[14:14:15] <CaptHindsight> _methods: any ideas? ends up the raisins swell when you rinse them
[14:14:41] <CaptHindsight> haven't tried using a solvent yet
[14:14:43] <gregcnc> I don't know how much taper you can give up in there before things slip. but it's only 1kw.
[14:17:43] <yasnak> _methods: yeah, iemca
[14:18:07] <yasnak> have two genius 120's on the ecas 20's
[14:18:19] <yasnak> been running the CAV's on the citizen
[14:18:54] <CaptHindsight> Tom_itx: do they make aircraft parts?
[14:58:04] <_methods> yo
[14:58:11] <_methods> sorry had to go to customer
[14:58:15] <_methods> what's up?
[14:58:39] <djdelorie> a direction opposing gravity
[14:58:47] <_methods> crazy place makes the fabric inside car batteries
[14:58:56] <_methods> fiber all over the place
[15:02:28] <_methods> ugh i'm not reading back thru all that silly time
[15:12:23] <Magnifikus> any good ideas for a spindle, about 1k € with toolchanger if possible? about 1kw for 10mm tools
[15:12:35] <Magnifikus> to replace this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpl2J2thUd4&feature=youtu.be
[15:14:06] <Magnifikus> thought about elte hf dont like the china thingies
[15:15:20] <cpresser> Magnifikus: toolchanger < 1k€ might be difficult
[15:15:39] <Magnifikus> not automatic, but release/lock
[15:15:41] <cpresser> i have one of those china spindles; replaced the kress1050 with it
[15:16:07] <cpresser> its way better than the kress.
[15:16:50] <Magnifikus> yeah i know thats why i want to get rid of it
[15:16:59] <Magnifikus> http://www.sorotec.de/shop/Fraesmotoren-neu/hf-spindeln-manuell/elte-spindeln/HF-Spindel-Elte-1-0-1-1KW-220V-24000rpm--KLEIN.html thought about something like this
[15:17:22] <cpresser> basically the same, but less €uros: http://www.ebay.de/itm/CNC-3KW-ER20-LUFTGEKUHLTE-SPINDEL-MOTOR-MILL-GRIND-AIR-COOLED-FOUR-BEARING-UK-/252358471659?hash=item3ac1bcafeb:g:NmQAAOSw95lXE0XF
[15:17:44] <cpresser> the one from elite does not come with a VFD. you also need to factor that in
[15:21:24] <Magnifikus> maybe some 1kw china with this? http://www.usovo.de/shop/Fraes-Spindeln-Zubehoer/Vorsatz-Wechsel-Systeme/China-Spindel-Werkzeugwechsler/Werkzeugwechsler-fuer-China-Spindel::634.html
[15:22:21] <Magnifikus> but er11 is bad cause alot of tools have 10mm shaft
[15:23:35] <cpresser> if you buy it, please give me a review :)
[15:37:28] <Magnifikus> http://www.sorotec.de/shop/Fraesmotoren-neu/oberfraesen/suhner-oberfraesen/Fr-s-Spindel-Suhner-1800Watt-230V-2500-23500-rpm-.html this might also work
[15:38:39] <XXCoder> cpresser: isnt kress 43mm spindle?
[15:38:51] <cpresser> only 43mm mounting option. and no toolchanger. i dont see where its better than the kress
[15:39:27] <Magnifikus> kress is 43mm yes
[15:39:47] <XXCoder> yeah. been looking for nicer spindle than my el cheapo grinder lol
[15:40:03] <XXCoder> however kress tend to be quite pricy AND shipping
[15:40:15] <Magnifikus> would like to know how the torque on low rpm is on the china 3kw ones
[15:40:56] <cpresser> XXCoder: if you live in germany its quite cheap. kress has free shipping for its free service :)
[15:41:05] <XXCoder> nice
[15:41:14] <cpresser> Magnifikus: can't tell. i only use it with 6k rpm and up
[15:41:22] <XXCoder> however is there normal spindle thats 43 mm? I never could find one
[15:42:09] <_methods> XXCoder: use a laminate router
[15:42:41] <XXCoder> _methods: I couldnt find one with clean 43mm shift
[15:42:59] <XXCoder> I have bosch one but it has prosions that prevent it from being cleanly fitted in mount
[15:43:31] <Magnifikus> kress is not that bad compared to our last one :D
[15:43:47] <Magnifikus> and the 1050fme goes down to 5k
[15:44:07] <Magnifikus> the suhner goes down to 2500
[15:44:44] <XXCoder> seem like best bet to me http://www.toolstop.co.uk/makita-rt0700cx4-router-laminate-trimmer-with-trimmer-guide-240v-p63809
[15:45:15] <XXCoder> not usa though
[15:46:35] <XXCoder> Makita RF1101 looks good but trying to find sizes so on now
[15:48:40] <gregcnc> capthindsight doubts about strength of 3d printed parts https://youtu.be/aPD5mHnkFqI?t=52s
[15:48:41] <XXCoder> http://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R6GF7FUXG9D2Y/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B00004YN3N
[15:52:22] <XXCoder> as additonal bonus, it can be lowered or rised
[15:52:37] <XXCoder> great when cutting bit low profile part or short tool
[15:53:34] <XXCoder> one negative is its quite pricy lol
[15:54:55] <Magnifikus> i think under 2,5k you wont get toolchanger
[15:55:06] <XXCoder> I dont plan to get one
[15:55:25] <Magnifikus> nah for me :)
[15:55:36] <XXCoder> sorry not paying for you ;)
[15:55:40] <XXCoder> heh
[15:59:23] <XXCoder> http://www.amazon.com/PORTER-CABLE-PCE6430-4-5-Amp-Laminate-Trimmer/dp/B00JTV1A0K/
[15:59:38] <XXCoder> it could work but then it has prosion, makes it hard to be clamped on
[16:09:43] <XXCoder> bah both is too large diameter-wise
[16:17:56] <Deejay> gn8
[16:21:25] <XXCoder> bah
[16:21:38] <XXCoder> nearly all edge or lamate routers have diameters larger than 43mm
[16:21:42] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: what kind of 3d printing? :)
[16:22:16] <gregcnc> really hard to tell after it falls apart
[16:22:19] <XXCoder> once i figure how to cut alum I guess I have to create mount for larger size so I can buy chinese spindle
[16:23:47] <XXCoder> what sucks is that it has 6 mount bolt holes, its olviously designed to have different mounts to be fitted in
[16:23:50] <XXCoder> but I see zero options
[16:36:21] <enleth> jthornton: did you get it working with the correct image?
[16:45:38] <MrSunshine> http://se.depositphotos.com/46020117/stock-photo-an-ancient-oiler.html this kind of oil cans .. wonder where one can find them =)
[16:50:27] <MrSunshine> or how hard it is to make one =)
[16:58:31] <malcom2073> You can still buy them
[17:00:08] <malcom2073> Search for push bottom oiler can
[17:00:17] <malcom2073> amazon has some, dunno how expensive to ship to wherever you are heh
[17:00:23] <pink_vampire> I disassemble the whole panel (again)
[17:22:46] <Valen> ey PCW / pcw_home you around? Or anybody else with an inkling about the pncconf sources?
[17:23:31] <Valen> I am having a bit of a poke around looking at a bug, namely I cant set the max vel to over 100 in the axis config section when in metric units
[17:33:08] <PCW> I think only Chris Morely knows about pncconf internals
[17:37:32] <Valen> the python looks okish, limited to 1500mm/minute which is too low but closer
[17:37:53] <Valen> I think its the glade thats doing it haven't dug up which file it is yet though
[17:41:45] <JT-Shop> all I know is you can't even open them with anything newer than Ubuntu 8.04 I think
[18:03:25] <Valen> JT-Shop: you mean the pncconf? its working in debian 7 ok?
[18:03:58] <andypugh> Swapper_: I am now…
[18:07:01] <JT-Shop> yes it works on newer os you just can't edit ti
[18:07:02] <JT-Shop> it
[19:03:46] * JT-Shop puts on the chef hat and heads inside
[19:04:14] <malcom2073> Make me a sammich!
[19:28:20] <CaptHindsight> sudo make -sammich
[19:40:15] <witnit> Welp guys, I bought, and got it hauled into the shop (not this particular one, but same model) http://www.abltechnology.com/en/machines/CNC_Lathes/4_Axis_or_More/1984_Mazak__Quick_Slant_30_Mazatrol_T4_EID105186
[19:42:16] <witnit> It just wild how big the vfd is on this thing. this is going to be an interesting build
[19:43:04] <witnit> There is a box on here with basicly just a VFD in it and the wires are the size of my pinky that go to it.
[19:43:04] <zeeshan|2> nice :D
[19:43:07] <zeeshan|2> home shop?!
[19:43:11] <witnit> nah
[19:44:03] <witnit> i rent an older building and could use some more buss bar in the ceiling especially now that this is here
[19:45:38] <witnit> its 4 axis with all dc brush tach and encoder, so I guess i shouldnt have too much trouble hooking in to a mesa card
[20:08:10] <danilochka> Hello, a friend of mine ordered a CNC machine 3 axis + lathe from China. It doesn't work, drivers are good and its configured. Might be hz difference that is affecting it. There is a noise comming from the control box like a constant *clicking*. Basically, since he still has a cnc machine, all he has to do is get a 110v native control box. Any ideas? or anyone have experience with ones off aliexpress like this one? http://www.a
[20:10:20] <SpeedEvil> Has he contacted the maker?
[20:10:28] <SpeedEvil> Also - truncated url
[20:10:34] <danilochka> Yes, he's useless, and sorry
[20:11:11] <danilochka> But theoretically, he should be able to replace only the box and reconfigure the pins
[20:12:32] <danilochka> http://tinyurl.com/zrnqm72
[20:12:34] <malcom2073> Re the hz difference: He's not trying to power a 220 50hz box with 110v 60hz is he? Or even worse, with 220v split neutral?
[20:13:39] <danilochka> Its being powered by 220v (Canada)
[20:14:08] <danilochka> electrician installed him a new line from the breaker
[20:14:42] <danilochka> is that noise normal though>
[20:16:21] <malcom2073> I wouldn't expect so, especially if it's not moving
[20:16:47] <malcom2073> Also, what does 220v (Canada) mean?
[20:17:03] <danilochka> malcom2073: But shouldn't he be able to buy a box from online like the one I sent? and just giving you a location that's all
[20:17:29] <malcom2073> It's a TB6560box, which means it's $40 worth of drivers
[20:17:34] <malcom2073> I'd go for 6600 myself, they're better drivers
[20:17:57] <danilochka> malcom2073: Is there a box you could link? please
[20:18:00] <malcom2073> Actually I'd go for neither and get a G540 :-D but that's not plug and play really
[20:18:22] <malcom2073> danilochka: What are the requirements?
[20:18:31] <malcom2073> Does it need the jog and spindle control knob?
[20:18:58] <danilochka> malcom2073: 4 axis (3 axis + lathe) serial port and no on box controls are needed
[20:19:15] <malcom2073> Serial port? Or parallel?
[20:19:23] <danilochka> parellel lol why did I say serial
[20:19:52] <malcom2073> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Router-Lathe-High-Integrated-4Axis-TB6600HG-Stepping-Motor-Driver-Box-Set-5A/251998289920?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D36499%26meid%3De6e9b64cd1064d2eaf94113fa67b98e3%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D251222460762
[20:19:54] <malcom2073> That looks cute
[20:21:01] <danilochka> malcom2073: Thanks and I did set him up the configuration file from the Chinese seller, so with the new box all that would need to change is the pins correct?
[20:21:21] <malcom2073> danilochka: That depends on how different the new box is from the old box
[20:21:42] <malcom2073> I've used the board that is inside the box I linked though, and it's just a matter of pointing each output to the right pins in that case
[20:21:47] <danilochka> malcom2073: Let me send you a picture of the internals of the box, one sec
[20:21:50] <malcom2073> stepconf handled it nicely
[20:27:54] <danilochka> malcom2073: http://i.imgur.com/t7jBsVv.jpg http://i.imgur.com/xWGpDMZ.jpg http://i.imgur.com/kX2XGBE.jpg http://i.imgur.com/8b3laJl.jpg
[20:28:56] <danilochka> http://i.imgur.com/8b3laJI.jpg
[20:29:01] <danilochka> last one didn't work
[20:29:02] <malcom2073> Looks fairly simple, 3 axis board + single ais
[20:29:27] <danilochka> malcom2073: Yeah, so it should be just a reconfig of pins right?
[20:29:57] <malcom2073> Should be, though the one I linked doesn't come with a power supply
[20:30:10] <malcom2073> Which could be all that is toasted on yours
[20:30:45] <danilochka> malcom2073: Would a 300w computer PSU work?
[20:31:20] <malcom2073> danilochka: That depends entirely on what you're using it for. 12v is pretty low for steppers though
[20:32:06] <danilochka> malcom2073: Yeah, http://tinyurl.com/gujcpnw this doesn't look too bad
[20:33:01] <malcom2073> Yeah they're fairly cheap. I've had mixed luck with switching supplies though, I prefer linear supplies but they're 3x more expensive
[20:36:15] <danilochka> malcom2073: Ah, well, http://www.cncrouterparts.com/g540-nema-23-wiring-instructions-p-144.html here's how I'd wire it cool
[20:41:57] <danilochka> malcom2073: I'm curious about the E-Stop on the box, apparently a 5 input estop I can use?
[20:42:29] <malcom2073> danilochka: Yeah you can run 5v into an estop pin on the parallel port
[20:42:34] <malcom2073> and use that for triggering an estop
[20:44:12] <danilochka> malcom2073: What's the other method? The link I sent seems to have 3 terminals.. on the one from ebay it only has 2
[20:44:42] <malcom2073> danilochka: The one you linked only has two wires for the estop?
[20:45:16] <danilochka> malcom2073: Well the tutorial shows a jumper wire between two terminals, one not being one of the power terminals
[20:45:49] <malcom2073> danilochka: Yes, you ca either do a jumper between the terminals, or wire an estop between them
[20:46:20] <danilochka> malcom2073: Between DC + and DC - ?
[20:47:14] <danilochka> malcom2073: Because the third one I assume is GND in the tutorial
[20:47:29] <malcom2073> danilochka: No, between DC- and the estop (which on the G540, is on a pullup)
[20:47:40] <malcom2073> This is all G540 specific though
[20:47:46] <danilochka> malcom2073: Okay, that makes more sense
[20:47:46] <malcom2073> So unless you're buying a G540, it's useless to you :)
[20:48:13] <danilochka> malcom2073: Okay, so on the 6600 you linked, how would I wire an estop between the terminals?
[20:49:44] <malcom2073> danilochka: That's on the DB9 connector, and you run it from the estop pin, through the estop, to ground (That board also uses the pullup method)
[20:51:52] <danilochka> Okay, so I just use the power wire (red) in a db9 cable and put it through the estop
[20:52:00] <danilochka> cool
[20:52:23] <malcom2073> No, it uses ground and estop, not power and estop
[20:52:57] <danilochka> malcom2073: Yeah I know but isnt it DB9 red wire -> estop -> 6600 GND?
[20:53:10] <malcom2073> It can be whatever color you want, but it's not power
[20:53:25] <danilochka> malcom2073: Ah so any of the other coloured wires
[20:53:27] <malcom2073> it's DB8 ESTOP wire -> estop -> 6600 GND.
[20:53:32] <malcom2073> DB9*
[20:53:41] <malcom2073> Whichever one is estop
[20:54:56] <danilochka> malcom2073: So I need to find which one of these http://www.db9-pinout.com/db9-pinout/db9-pinout.gif is ESTOP
[20:55:14] <malcom2073> danilochka: That is a DB9 connector, yes
[20:55:25] <malcom2073> I don't recall offhand, but on the board I linked it's documented
[20:55:29] <malcom2073> in the documentation heh
[20:55:40] <danilochka> heh
[20:56:16] <danilochka> malcom2073: http://www.savebase.com/infobase/downloads/3rd_TB6600/TOSHIBA_TB6600HG_Watermark.PDF ah there, wait TOSHIBA?
[20:56:35] <malcom2073> yeah
[20:56:49] <malcom2073> That's the documentation for the driver chip they use
[20:57:37] <danilochka> malcom2073: Actually, that doesn't help with the DB9 nvm
[20:57:40] <malcom2073> Nope
[20:58:49] <danilochka> malcom2073: Wonder if they are kind enough to ship that information with it..
[20:59:03] <malcom2073> danilochka: Mine was on a PDF from somewhere, don't recall where
[21:00:04] <danilochka> malcom2073: Well, its American company, I can just call them
[21:00:52] <danilochka> This friend that I am helping doesn't know anything so he asked for my help with the software. Software? no problem... but I didn't think I would be doing electronic stuff
[21:01:07] <danilochka> electrical
[21:01:08] <danilochka> rather
[21:01:10] <malcom2073> Yeah welcome to chinese CNC machines :)
[21:02:06] <danilochka> malcom2073: The Chinese dude sent him CD's all in Chinese with videos at I swear 400x300 resolutions, and then when my friend told him it isn't working he gave the QQ number of his
[21:02:10] <danilochka> 'engineer'
[21:02:39] <malcom2073> heh
[21:03:36] <danilochka> malcom2073: Anyway, thanks ALOT for your help, everything seems pretty straight forward now. But inevitably something will arise anyhow... cya!
[21:03:43] <malcom2073> See ya
[21:03:45] <malcom2073> good luck
[21:03:54] <bobo_> BeachBumPete: are your new neighbors going to be like this guy ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soxxPyaAT1k
[21:29:40] <BeachBumPete> bobo_ heh my luck would be to get some jackass boring drunk who plays skynnrd loud as hell all day a neighbor like that who tries to make flying machines would be COOL!
[21:35:25] <djdelorie> I've had the skynnrd neighbor...
[21:48:03] <bobo_> looks as if Andy P has been hiding stuff from us https://www.youtube.com/redirect?q=http%3A%2F%2Funlearn.ford.co.uk%2F&redir_token=IqOuaOuNYiJKK4nyM8kUJLFVtD18MTQ2MTk3MjgxNEAxNDYxODg2NDE0
[22:47:12] <yasnak> way to go green bay...drafting a 2nd round defensive lineman in the 1st third year in a row. lets see if the busts continue.