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[00:03:45] <SMD1> CaptHindsight: realtime io for stepping
[00:37:39] <unfy> durrrr, watch a YT video, realize you have yet to own a simple piece of equipment, finally just go buy it. (re: tap follower)
[00:56:56] <unfy> printed out some pics of crucible tongs so can fabricate my own. $250 for a set of tongs ... no thanks
[01:33:45] <MrSunshine_> hmm what do you think about using the morse taper in the spindle (MT4 in my case) to mount chucks ? make a keyway in it and use the thread on the spindle to draw chucks on ? =)
[01:34:26] <MrSunshine_> i find it kinda annoying that i cant run in reverse or brake the lathe fast =)
[01:48:40] <archivist> nothing with a side load on morse without a drawbar
[01:48:41] <archivist> morse arbour is thinner than the spindle less stiff, more vibration
[01:56:29] <archivist> I use collets for reversal work
[02:24:50] <pink_vampire> making chips!
[02:25:30] <pink_vampire> when you work on small parts the machine looks clean even if she make chips.
[02:29:17] <Deejay> moin
[02:29:28] <pink_vampire> hi Deejay
[02:31:37] <Deejay> hi pink
[02:33:37] <pink_vampire> the machine making chips!
[02:33:47] <pink_vampire> but when you work on small parts the machine looks clean even if she make chips.
[05:06:31] <SMDwrk> zlog
[05:07:20] <XXCoder> pink_vampire: yeah when engraving parts its basically same
[05:07:24] <XXCoder> machine looks clean lol
[05:07:35] <XXCoder> theres some parts I make that make HUGE mess though
[05:07:46] <XXCoder> like that hose guide nylon part uggh
[05:08:07] <XXCoder> I use snow shovel to clean machine because theres so much crap at end of day
[05:27:55] <enleth> XXCoder: get a construction cleanup vacuum
[05:28:05] <enleth> XXCoder: those will suck in absolutely anything
[05:28:09] <XXCoder> nah not paying for company
[05:28:23] <enleth> ah, ok
[05:28:31] <XXCoder> I wish though
[05:28:37] <XXCoder> nylon mess is sucha big mess
[05:28:43] <XXCoder> shoveling em isnt fun
[05:28:51] <enleth> I had one of those already, it's perfectly happy to suck in a sharp mess of chips and oil
[05:28:59] <XXCoder> most machines has conveyers
[05:29:07] <XXCoder> but not old fadal and new fadal
[05:43:59] <minibnz> hmmm im not sure if i am a happy little boy or not..
[05:43:59] <minibnz> i ordered 10x tool holders ER16 they are tormach tool clones.. this makes me happy
[05:43:59] <minibnz> i have also ordered 1x ER20 tool holder from tormach with three jacobs chucks.. and the 3/4in MT3 collet... these are yet to arrive.. and makes me sad...
[05:43:59] <minibnz> i also ordered a crap load of collets.. they too have yet to arrive..
[05:44:16] <minibnz> so i has some nice toys i wants to play with but cant..
[05:46:10] <minibnz> the tormach units are set to arrive on friday but i think that will be friday USA time not AU time so they wont arrive until monday :( and god knows then the collets are set to arrive..
[05:47:52] <minibnz> i still have some work to do on the tool pallet i have all my wedges made and the plates to hold them now i gotta make this spin and index ect.. to complete the pallet i need the tool holders from tormach so i can make a universal holder for both these clones and the originals..
[05:50:27] <minibnz> i still have to order 5 more ER20 collet holders and collets before the collection is complete.. thats another $150au.. they are clones..
[05:50:28] <minibnz> so far i have spent $600au on 3 jacobs chucks and 1 ER20 collet and the 3MT collet..
[05:50:28] <minibnz> $200 in the 10x ER16 holder clones another $150 in ER16 collets
[05:50:38] <enleth> minibnz: so you'll be using ER holders as straight shank holders?
[05:51:44] <minibnz> this is the clones i got.
[05:51:46] <minibnz> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/251213817415?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
[05:52:23] <enleth> what the hell
[05:52:42] <enleth> what kind of taper is that and why is that so cheap?
[05:52:42] <XXCoder> $200 heh
[05:52:46] <XXCoder> mines far cheaper
[05:53:04] <enleth> XXCoder: 10pcs
[05:53:07] <XXCoder> yea
[05:53:13] <minibnz> i will hold these with the 3/4inch 3MT collet in the stock spindle of my X2 mill. will add a new drawbar bolt that has spring washers up top, then a linear actuator that squashes the springs to release these holders from the 3mt collet
[05:53:28] <XXCoder> looks like it attaches to larger size ER or whatever and you can use smaller er16 collets on it
[05:53:29] <enleth> ah, morse
[05:53:35] <minibnz> they are a straight shank that is 3/4' 19mm
[05:54:04] <XXCoder> like on er32 which is big for tiny tools so you add this then small er16 then tool
[05:54:17] <minibnz> i have a 3mt morse taper collet on order from tormach to hold these ER hoders into my mill.
[05:54:48] <minibnz> these are clones of the tormach tooling system..
[05:54:49] <XXCoder> heh I got lucky that er16 fits on my grinder machine
[05:54:56] <XXCoder> so i can use it to cut wood and stuff
[05:55:01] <minibnz> nice
[05:55:02] <XXCoder> *with tools
[05:55:17] <minibnz> always a bonus when you find those sort of matches.
[05:55:21] <XXCoder> I need to figure how to fit larger 53mm so i can use real spindle.
[05:55:43] <XXCoder> I'm currently limited to 43mm which no spindle exist
[05:56:24] <minibnz> so i think i am going to have ended up spending $1000au on 20 tool holders and collets when i am all done.
[05:57:02] <XXCoder> fun
[05:57:04] <minibnz> and the hardware to change them in and out of my mill
[05:57:24] <XXCoder> I got 11 er16 collets for what $21? something lol
[05:57:48] <XXCoder> nice that if I finally get a 53 mm holder I can use spindle with er16 and use em
[05:57:59] <minibnz> i want to order all of what i need/want now but if i do that i will have to really behave and not spend money for the next month :(
[06:00:50] <minibnz> yeah i ordered a set of er16 collets with 13pcs for about the same... but then i also ordered 5each of 2-3mm 3-4 5-6 6-7 9-10mm collets.. so another 25 in total so i can hold the normal tool shanks and still keep one full set aside for whatever.. and i will do the same but 3pcs of each for the ER20 holders, will only have 6 ER20 holders in my set not 10
[06:01:51] <minibnz> so with this i should only have to sort me out some slitting saw arbors and i should be right to stop spending money on the mill and just start using the damn thing to make my parts..
[06:02:04] <XXCoder> lol yeah
[06:02:10] <XXCoder> time for it to earn its keep! ;)
[06:02:46] <minibnz> all up i think i will end up spending total of $4000au on this little beast :)
[06:03:13] <minibnz> not too bad a goal for it to earn back that and then some...
[06:03:47] <minibnz> i might not have white hair before then :)
[06:05:01] <minibnz> i dont think i could have go the same thing off the shelf for less.. my time is free to me but you i will have to charge :)
[06:08:44] <minibnz> i guess i should allow for the purchase of some more cutters.. at the moment i dont think i can fill the 18 slots in my tool changer with different cutters..
[06:10:14] <XXCoder> I wonder how cheap it is to pay someone to make 54 mm version of my machine holder
[06:11:01] <minibnz> it would just be a bit of lathe work right?
[06:11:14] <XXCoder> nah have to be mill I think
[06:11:37] <XXCoder> I want to keep orginial so I can use grinder for engrave as well as some other uses
[06:12:27] <minibnz> if i was closer to you i would be happy to assist but im way to far awaay to help
[06:12:46] <XXCoder> np though lemme upload to show you what I mean
[06:14:17] <XXCoder> minibnz:
http://picpaste.com/thumbs/Screenshot_-_04192016_-_03_47_41_AM-ciJPqhPI.1461062896.png
[06:14:26] <XXCoder> that is my 43mm motor holder
[06:14:41] <minibnz> yeah thats all i thought you were taking about..
[06:14:42] <XXCoder> sadly there is more mount screws on machine Z
[06:14:58] <XXCoder> 6 total i think
[06:15:01] <XXCoder> this uses only 2
[06:16:32] <_methods> don't you work at a machine shop?
[06:16:40] <minibnz> you said you could make a wood one to make the metal one :)
[06:16:47] <XXCoder> yeah cant use machines though at work
[06:17:01] <XXCoder> minibnz: I'm still uncertain beause of limited height
[06:17:16] <minibnz> sling the guy that runs them at your work a carton of beer or bottl
[06:17:18] <_methods> you don't even have some manual machines for maintenance?
[06:17:28] <XXCoder> and inability to find working CAM lol
[06:17:35] <_methods> wtf you need cam for
[06:17:40] <_methods> that's a simple part
[06:17:43] <XXCoder> _methods: I'm not skilled enough for manual sadly
[06:17:50] <_methods> make it on a manual mill and lathe
[06:17:54] <_methods> oh
[06:17:59] <XXCoder> lathe scares me LOL
[06:18:08] <minibnz> give the guy a pair of DXF's stuck to the carton of beer..
[06:18:09] <XXCoder> I can do button operator and very little past that
[06:18:39] <XXCoder> I do plan to try figure make 54mm one but not right now though
[06:19:06] <_methods> well if you make a 54mm one then you won't need the other one
[06:19:18] <_methods> you just need to make a 43mm sleeve once you build the 50mm one
[06:19:19] <XXCoder> actually I do for grinder
[06:19:21] <_methods> 54mm
[06:19:22] <XXCoder> 27000rpm
[06:19:31] <XXCoder> actually youre right but then meh heh
[06:20:17] <_methods> if you talk to the manual machinists at your work they may let you use the machines during break
[06:20:23] <_methods> and you might learn something to boot
[06:20:48] <_methods> break/lunchtime
[06:20:59] <_methods> you work 2nd or 3rd shift too right?
[06:21:01] <minibnz> looking over one of thess clone tool holders i notice the build quality is pretty nice.. the anodizing is nice and the threads are neat clean and smooth as...
[06:21:26] <XXCoder> 2nd shift. most people dont know how to run manual
[06:21:34] <XXCoder> its VERY rarely used
[06:21:41] <_methods> yeah 2nd shift isn't usually the brightest crew lol
[06:21:51] <XXCoder> in year and 2 months I worked, I ran manual exactly once
[06:21:59] <XXCoder> and that was 2 weeks ago, and simple flat spot at end
[06:22:13] <_methods> well if you get in early and talk nice to the manual guys they may let you use the machines
[06:22:24] <_methods> if they have machines that don't have setups on them
[06:23:06] <_methods> and make sure you leave their area cleaner than when you got there and put away all the stuff you use they probably will let you use the stuff again
[06:23:14] <XXCoder> indeed
[06:23:21] <XXCoder> I rather use cnc though
[06:23:29] <_methods> beggars can't be choosers
[06:23:54] <XXCoder> plenty of cnc machines there though its hard to make time
[06:24:12] <_methods> i personally wouldn't use a cnc machine at work if i were you
[06:24:16] <XXCoder> and during day all machines tend to be busy
[06:24:17] <_methods> too many things can go wrong
[06:24:24] <_methods> most of them have setups on them
[06:24:29] <XXCoder> some?
[06:24:36] <XXCoder> even most? heh
[06:24:40] <_methods> and if something breaks on the machine while you're working on it
[06:24:45] <_methods> it will be you getting blamed
[06:24:49] <XXCoder> machine rarely have no setup
[06:24:51] <minibnz> i have access to a nice lathe.. i do the same thing, clean up before leaving and i actually improved the machine by adding a stop switch to the Auto feed to stop the numnuts in the shop busting it again not paying attention..
[06:25:59] <_methods> yeah as long as you clean up they'll usually be glad to let you on the machines
[06:25:59] <minibnz> if they have setups already on it.. see if you can work with thier jigs might be able to profile it here and bore it there. etc..
[06:26:13] <_methods> your next best bet is to take some classes at the local tech college
[06:26:21] <_methods> that way you can use the machines for free
[06:26:23] <_methods> heheh
[06:26:30] <XXCoder> http://picpaste.com/pics/IMG_20160419_035001-Z3b4L3ZG.1461063632.jpg
[06:26:32] <minibnz> go find a maker space.
[06:26:40] <XXCoder> minibnz: tried
[06:26:45] <XXCoder> here its all expensive lol
[06:26:47] <XXCoder> besides
[06:26:59] <_methods> most makerspaces are just full of silly 3d printers
[06:27:02] <XXCoder> I might try make one out of wood on my machine though not too sure how to do side
[06:27:20] <XXCoder> maybe do in 2 parts
[06:27:25] <XXCoder> and use bolts to get em together
[06:27:30] <XXCoder> act as clamp
[06:28:18] <minibnz> hey what about using some already shaped. metal like a C section, all you need to do then is bore two holes and a few others here and there.. then you can make a nicer looking one..
[06:29:06] <XXCoder> heh
[06:29:14] <minibnz> you might even find a box section that the motor fits inside of... bolt that to the axis long enough to make your hoder
[06:29:16] <XXCoder> though I do want one that uses all 6 bolt pattern
[06:29:20] <XXCoder> (fid you see pic?)
[06:29:41] <XXCoder> I'm still puzzled why there is 6 when holder use only 2.
[06:30:24] <minibnz> different heights? like collet vs drill chucks?
[06:30:31] <XXCoder> possible.
[06:30:42] <minibnz> cheap and lazy?
[06:30:43] <XXCoder> though I have never found any true spindle 43 mm size
[06:30:51] <XXCoder> more holes = $ more
[06:31:42] <minibnz> not that much more for a NC machine shop. once you have the first one the next ones are next to free..
[06:33:20] <XXCoder> I guess
[06:33:29] <XXCoder> though I notice that there is bolts on top
[06:33:34] <XXCoder> maybe can remove the Z plate
[06:33:45] <XXCoder> so can swap with larger one thats compitable with 54mm
[06:35:33] <minibnz> maybe
[06:37:15] <enleth> just contacted the Bison Bial factory for their QC30 pricing and availability. Turns out one of their distributors is about 300m from my shop and the local prices are 3-4x lower than export pricing.
[06:37:36] <minibnz> score.....
[06:38:27] <enleth> I can get an ER32 holder for an equivalent of $40
[06:38:34] <enleth> tax included and all
[06:38:47] <enleth> US Shop Tools sells it for over $400
[06:38:49] <enleth> bleh
[06:38:51] <enleth> $100
[06:39:35] <enleth> but I've already seen a few bigger taper holders from Bison that sell for $300-$400 and I could get them for $100 if I needed them
[06:44:32] <enleth> morse taper adapters for MT1, MT2 and MT3 - also $40
[06:45:59] <enleth> shell mill holders - $55-$61
[06:49:01] <enleth> interestingly, weldon shank holders are more expensive than ER32
[06:49:09] <enleth> but only by $7
[06:50:38] <pink_vampire> fail !
[07:48:15] <R2E4> Looking for documentation on the rt-preemopt kernel, it available via github?
[07:50:56] <R2E4> found it
[09:54:31] <DaViruz> so.. what's my best bet for getting a set of servos and analogue servo drivers without paying an arm and a leg?
[09:54:53] <jdh> ebay, hope for mistyped ad
[09:55:32] <DaViruz> something a bit more reliable
[09:55:52] <DaViruz> i might be willing to part with an arm, if i can keep the leg.. :)
[10:00:45] <jdh> brushed motors, amc drives pribably
[10:02:25] <miss0r> I am looking for a good machine vise. Preferably one with a jawspan of 150mm. Can you reccomend one? (I am hoping for a cheap chinese one, that keeps good tolerences)
[10:04:18] <DaViruz> http://granitedevices.com/miniature-servo-drive-ioni/
[10:04:21] <cradek> I bought a 6" kurt-style import and it was adequate (but never great) after taking it apart, measuring all the errors, and machining it flat and square
[10:04:22] <DaViruz> this seems rather interesting
[10:04:35] <cradek> so the second time, I bought a real kurt
[10:05:21] <miss0r> cradek, I'm looking at this one from a local supplyer:
https://www.sanistaal.com/da/produkter/staal-og-metaller/suppl-produkter-til-staal/vaerktoej-til-staal/spaantagende/format-spaendevaerktoej/format-maskinskruestikke/format-maskinskruestik-3836/c-466937/2248706/maskinskruestik-mek-125mm.aspx
[10:06:12] <miss0r> "Guaranteed tolerence of 0.02mm"... "For use in machining centers where precision is key"... thoes two does not quite match :)
[10:06:35] <cradek> yes, and tolerance of what
[10:06:59] <_methods> miss0r: i have a couple of the cheap chinese ones and i wouldn't recommend them without rework
[10:07:08] <miss0r> it only says(directly translates): Tolerencearea within 0.02mm
[10:07:31] <_methods> you're probably better off finding auction vises
[10:07:35] <cradek> yes my experience was the vise was not a finished product, just castings that you can finish to work adequately
[10:07:37] <_methods> not sure what a good euro vise brand is
[10:07:58] <_methods> but here in the usa kurt is always decent
[10:08:07] <_methods> and for cnc stuff i like chick or orange
[10:08:19] <miss0r> yesterday I cleaned up a big'ol machine vise with a turning base. It probally weighs in at 80pounds
[10:08:30] <_methods> yeah that's what you want
[10:08:45] <miss0r> but I can't seem to "hammer" the workpeice into contact with the parallel blocks. It is somewhat off
[10:08:58] <_methods> i bought the chinese cnc vises and they're fixed jaws are highly suspect as they come out of the box
[10:09:02] <_methods> mine wobbled all over
[10:09:18] <_methods> and i still don't tighten it too much out of fear of the casting snapping
[10:09:22] <gregcnc> arnold rohm schunk etc..
[10:09:26] <miss0r> hehe. The one I pasted a link to has "downforce" in the jaws. that might come in handy?
[10:09:53] <gregcnc> that's a gerardi or clone
[10:10:02] <_methods> but they do work you just have to pay attention
[10:10:06] <_methods> like most cheap tools
[10:10:18] <_methods> you can get them to do what they're supposed to do with a little extra effort
[10:10:35] <gregcnc> yes basicly all it takes is redesign and rebuild
[10:10:37] <_methods> if you're trying to save some money it's worth a shot
[10:10:39] <miss0r> I just think 2000usd is alot over the top for me at the moment
[10:11:02] <_methods> well you can often find quality vises at auction for decent prices
[10:11:06] <_methods> a fraction of new costs
[10:11:09] <miss0r> if all goes to shit, I can put it in the surface grinder and fix it up a bit
[10:11:21] <gregcnc> you can find new second hand for half new cost
[10:11:38] <miss0r> what you just wrote made no sense to me :S
[10:11:51] <gregcnc> somebody bought and never used
[10:11:57] <miss0r> indeed
[10:12:00] <miss0r> right :)
[10:13:18] <miss0r> I think i'll just go for the brand new one I posted a link for then. if it is shit, i've learned my lesson
[10:14:00] <_methods> yeah like i said it's worth a shot
[10:14:05] <_methods> i mean i use mine
[10:14:24] <_methods> and they work but i wouldn't use them in a production environment
[10:14:39] <_methods> they'd be dead in a day of real shop abuse i'm sure
[10:14:41] <miss0r> true. And for where I am in cnc machining, it will probally be fine
[10:14:51] <gregcnc> figure out who makes it so you don't overpay
[10:15:27] <miss0r> usualy 'sanistaal' <- the link I pasted, have their own brand, and just have the real factories make it for them.
[10:15:51] <miss0r> they call it "format". but I swear i've bought stuff by that name that is same as the original
[10:15:52] <gregcnc> ask them where it's made, you dont' want to pay premium price for china
[10:16:27] <miss0r> its german made. I've already asked them. they just couldn't/wouldn't tell me what factory
[10:16:59] <miss0r> as long as we are not talking emissions, german stuff is still good
[10:17:06] <gregcnc> I suppose that's fine then, probably not much german junk out there
[10:17:06] <_methods> lol
[10:17:50] <miss0r> parental duty calls. see you guys around. and thanks for the guidence
[11:23:54] <skunkworks> anyone know of any stepper drives that take quad input?
[11:27:11] <CaptHindsight> skunkworks: closed loop stepper drives with quadrature encoder feedback?
[11:27:57] <skunkworks> no - just drives that take quadrature instead of or as an option to step/dir input
[11:32:59] <pink_vampire> what is quad input??
[11:33:11] <pink_vampire> skunksleep: ^
[11:38:14] <CaptHindsight> skunkworks: Parker ViX Series
[11:38:45] <CaptHindsight> they have encoder following mode
[11:38:59] <CaptHindsight> http://www.parkermotion.com/literature/precision_cd/CD-EM/compumotor/cat/english/ViX.pdf
[11:39:20] <skunkworks> oh - kinda what I want. (rough positioning using a stepper and jog wheel)
[11:39:36] <skunkworks> wonder what those cose
[11:39:38] <skunkworks> cost
[11:39:38] <CaptHindsight> I've never used that series but I have used the encoder following mode on their other drives
[11:40:46] <skunkworks> pink_vampire,
http://www.robotoid.com/appnotes/circuits-quad-encoding.html
[11:41:25] <skunkworks> or I could use one of the ls7184 chips... ;)
[11:42:49] <pink_vampire> http://www.cui.com/product/resource/amt10-v.pdf
[11:42:59] <pink_vampire> like this one?
[11:43:21] <CaptHindsight> also Applied Motion
http://www.applied-motion.com/products/series/st-stepper-drives
[11:43:22] <skunkworks> yes - most encoders output quadrature signal
[11:44:12] <pink_vampire> this is the encoders that I'm using on my machine
[11:44:27] <skunkworks> how are those working?
[11:44:58] <skunkworks> they have quite an acceleration lag that some have wondered if it would cause an issue
[11:46:43] <pink_vampire> I can machine very small stuff without any problem
[11:46:53] <skunkworks> awesome
[11:46:56] <pink_vampire> also very hard metals
[11:47:16] <pink_vampire> http://i.imgur.com/dbbo2k7.png
[11:47:37] <skunkworks> oh - touch probe
[11:47:47] <CaptHindsight> skunkworks: how is the Matsuura project coming along?
[11:47:56] <pink_vampire> no
[11:48:06] <CaptHindsight> I saw your pics on the spindle encoder
[11:48:30] <skunkworks> pretty good - got the encoders hooked into the mesa - looks like the counts per inch is 25400 (micron)
[11:48:37] <pink_vampire> but yes it is going to be a kinematic switch.
[11:49:02] <skunkworks> pink_vampire, cool!
[11:49:28] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/matsuura/20160417_130657.jpg
[11:49:33] <pink_vampire> the core is very hard steel (1/4" chrome shaft)
[11:50:09] <pink_vampire> skunkworks: what kind a machine do you have?
[11:50:30] <skunkworks> http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/activity.php?s=405d7429a28a16746bd0031235a02e7e
[11:50:44] <skunkworks> heh - that wasn't it.
[11:50:46] <CaptHindsight> skunkworks: did you see that posting by gregcnc of that old machine fest they hold down here?
[11:50:53] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/matsuura/matsuura.JPG
[11:51:05] <skunkworks> CaptHindsight, no
[11:51:15] <pink_vampire> WWWWWOOW
[11:51:30] <pink_vampire> I have the G0704
[11:52:03] <CaptHindsight> it's actually at the train museum in Union, IL
http://arnfest.com/
[11:52:09] <skunkworks> pink_vampire,
http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/oldkandt.JPG
[11:52:44] <pink_vampire> that bigger then my living room
[11:53:01] <skunkworks> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39q6kvrSBSk
[11:53:33] <skunkworks> I have a machine about the size of the G0704 I need to get running
[11:53:41] <skunkworks> too many projects
[11:54:05] <CaptHindsight> same here
[11:55:10] <pink_vampire> I need to finish the panel
[11:55:38] <pink_vampire> too many boxes of stuff
[11:58:06] <gregcnc> i hope they post dates soon
[11:58:41] <_methods> is mts in chicago this year?
[11:59:13] <gregcnc> yes
[11:59:23] <CaptHindsight> http://www.imts.com/
[11:59:31] <_methods> yeah lol i guess i could have googled that
[11:59:35] <CaptHindsight> September 12 - 17, 2016
[11:59:42] <_methods> so used to people asking stupid questions in here it's infecting me
[11:59:50] <CaptHindsight> me to
[11:59:55] <_methods> i'm one of them now lol
[12:00:03] <CaptHindsight> what day is it?
[12:00:13] <_methods> what's the best way to comb your hair
[12:00:17] <gregcnc> crap i had a good dumb question this morning but forgot
[12:00:41] <CaptHindsight> _methods: brush or comb, can't decide
[12:00:46] <yasnak> I've had too many dumb questions this morning
[12:00:54] <_methods> maybe we should talk about it for a couple months
[12:01:01] <_methods> brush or comb i don't know what to pic
[12:01:13] <gregcnc> not until after you do some or a lot of research
[12:01:13] <_methods> or pic even
[12:01:26] <CaptHindsight> which shoe to tie first?
[12:01:37] <_methods> is it going to be in vegas next year?
[12:01:45] <CaptHindsight> do they really fall off if you don't?
[12:01:45] <_methods> i think i might go next time it's in vegas
[12:02:03] <CaptHindsight> Fabtech is in Vegas this year
[12:02:14] <_methods> oooh
[12:02:19] <_methods> maybe i'll just go to fabtech
[12:02:25] <_methods> i haven't been to a show in a few years
[12:02:25] <pink_vampire> pink eraser work AMAZING for cleaning sand paper!
[12:02:59] <_methods> ah there's our malfunctioning chatbot
[12:04:24] <CaptHindsight> Fabtech registration just opened today
[12:05:11] <_methods> i'll have to get some free tickets
[12:05:29] <_methods> our trumpf rep is always tryin to get us to go
[12:05:35] <CaptHindsight> free registration
[12:06:42] <_methods> oh even better
[12:06:51] <_methods> i guess imts is the one you gotta get tickets to
[12:06:59] <CaptHindsight> at least from the links they sent me
[12:07:12] <CaptHindsight> let me know if you need a VIP code
[12:07:56] <_methods> will do
[12:08:04] <_methods> i'll see what i get from our trumpf guy first
[12:09:33] <CaptHindsight> near 80F yesterday, currently 52
[12:09:51] <gregcnc> i used to go to design & manufacturing show? not sure the same show exists anymore
[12:10:34] <CaptHindsight> Manufacturing Week
[12:10:52] <_methods> last one i went to was fabtech i think when they had it in atlanta
[12:11:09] <_methods> but i got buddies out in LA so it's a good excuse to hit vegas and hang out with friends
[12:12:02] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: they mix up shows at times
[12:12:35] <CaptHindsight> fabtech, design, medical design etc etc
[12:12:36] <_methods> my buddy lives in vegas too
[12:12:37] <gregcnc> that's right I forgot it changed to mfg week tells you how long since I went
[12:12:43] <_methods> he started this place when he got out of the army
[12:12:46] <_methods> http://americanshooters.com/
[12:13:20] <CaptHindsight> oh man, I can't handle anymore gun cleanin
[12:13:25] <_methods> have to hang out and put some rounds down range
[12:13:29] <_methods> heheh
[12:13:35] <_methods> borrow them and let them clean them
[12:13:56] <mase-tech> HI peps
[12:14:00] <mase-tech> Whats up
[12:14:26] <gregcnc> cleaning guns while trying to find manufacturing shows to attend
[12:15:06] <CaptHindsight> how about a drone range that you remote pilot and drop bags of flour on targets?
[12:15:06] <mase-tech> Cleaning guns ? You must be american
[12:16:27] <gregcnc> there is drone racing league
[12:17:29] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: do yuh gits tuh blast stuff?
[12:19:19] <gregcnc> no it like this.
https://youtu.be/sFHRcW6qnvo
[12:19:25] <SMDwrk> CaptHindsight: sorry for disturbing again, but what's with arm gpio using for realtime stepping?
[12:23:40] <gregcnc> I have to to try the 8$ ebay mister I put in the mill and lunch
[12:32:08] <_methods> gregcnc: let me know how that works
[12:32:13] <_methods> i need to get one for my minimill
[12:32:20] <_methods> hard to beat $8
[12:43:03] <maxcnc> hi
[12:43:23] <skunkworks> CaptHindsight, pulled a shit-ton of cables out of the machine..
[12:45:25] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/matsuura/20160316_110431.jpg
[12:45:48] <skunkworks> pretty much all those cables are removed.. replaced with power and 2 network cables :)
[12:46:01] <skunkworks> (and an estop run_
[12:58:20] <maxcnc> clear up is always a real good thing
[12:59:08] <maxcnc> 2 days of sunner ahead in germany and then winter may take a hit again
[13:14:28] <maxcnc> Gn8
[13:38:02] <CaptHindsight> SMDwrk: I'm sorry I don't understand your question. Please rephrase.
[13:57:54] <JT-Shop> I turned the probe in 1/8 turns and probed the vise, are the variations the result of the Y arraignment of the pins?
https://imagebin.ca/v/2eK4fT4eNEvt
[13:59:34] <_methods> ouch
[13:59:43] <cradek> the difference between the first and last points make me think you should make a lot more trials
[14:00:27] <JT-Shop> yea the 0.5 point is way off the rest
[14:00:43] <JT-Shop> could be the worn out spindle on the BP maybe
[14:00:45] <cradek> the tip might not be round, the spindle bearings might not be perfect
[14:01:16] <_methods> well you can measure the spindle runout at least
[14:01:21] <_methods> see if that's throwin you out
[14:06:25] <CaptHindsight> http://www.business-standard.com/article/pti-stories/new-system-to-identify-people-by-their-brainprints-116041900354_1.html how do they differentiate people that have no activity?
[14:07:12] <JT-Shop> turned the probe 180 in the spindle and tested again...
https://imagebin.ca/v/2eK7hjeqcja0
[14:08:04] <cradek> that looks better - it's just badly centered
[14:29:23] <SMD1> CaptHindsight: I'm asking if anyone succeeded with using arm board instead of x86 one with gpio instead of lpt
[14:50:09] <pink_vampire> I just discover huge design issue with all the kinematic probes!
[14:50:23] <andypugh> Which is?
[14:53:53] <_methods> the user
[14:55:04] <pink_vampire> I need to get water jet
[14:55:33] <pink_vampire> or wire edm to make strain gauge probe
[14:56:20] <andypugh> No you don’t. Absolutely anything that you bond a straing gauge to becomes a force gauge.
[14:58:02] <pink_vampire> what is more accurate kinematic switch or strain gauge?
[14:58:24] <andypugh> That depends…
[14:58:30] <pink_vampire> on?
[14:59:19] <andypugh> The interface electronics, largely. To be super-sensitive a strain gauge would need to compensate for temperature and orientation effects, for example.
[14:59:42] <andypugh> A kinematic switch “just works” and plugs straight into a digital IO.
[15:00:19] <andypugh> I don’t know what you percieve as a problem with the 3-bar design. I think it is extremely clever.
[15:25:28] <PCW> The issue with probes is not sensing but rather being insensitive and rigid until tripped
[15:26:25] <PCW> (which is one reason why the 3 bar design works so well)
[15:29:28] <PCW> there are some fancy strain gauge probe that have active feedback to keep them centered (and damped)
[15:35:27] <XXCoder> bah
[15:35:33] <XXCoder> its hard to find good fuee puller
[15:35:46] <XXCoder> my van has compact fuse box
[15:35:53] <XXCoder> and its stock fuse puller is lost
[15:36:39] <yasnak> Eh...
[15:36:57] <yasnak> Southwick and meister...anyone have experience?
[15:51:16] <_methods> http://imgur.com/gallery/QMwR1
[15:51:23] <_methods> ahhhh machine pr0n
[15:51:46] <_methods> oh that slitting saw gif
[15:52:26] <FinboySlick> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzQNP-Fvalg You guys had seen this, right?
[15:52:41] <_methods> yeah
[15:52:49] <_methods> still cool though
[15:53:10] * JT-Shop goes back to the big dig
[15:53:11] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/images/equipment-shed/big-dig-01.jpg
[15:53:14] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop
[15:53:26] <Tom_itx> didn't you recently get a new mb for your cad machine?
[15:53:31] <_methods> jeebus you puttin in a pool
[15:53:32] <Tom_itx> or desktop
[15:53:48] <FinboySlick> JT-Shop: Missed an opportunity to stand proud with a shovel and two wooden buckets.
[15:53:56] <FinboySlick> We can see the tracks though.
[15:54:27] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, are you mining or what?
[15:54:54] <XXCoder> _methods: some gifs is well done, infinity loop
[15:55:51] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: no
[15:56:03] <Tom_itx> which no?
[15:56:11] <JT-Shop> an 30x50x12 equipment shed
[15:56:19] <JT-Shop> no new mb
[15:56:39] <JT-Shop> can't have a building without a flat spot
[15:56:43] <Tom_itx> i needed a better one for my cad
[15:57:11] <JT-Shop> the one I have at the other shop is ok, this one is slow
[15:57:22] <Tom_itx> well so far i'm liking what i got
[15:57:30] <Tom_itx> gigabit with ssd
[15:58:00] <Tom_itx> not the best but a step up for me
[15:58:03] <JT-Shop> the one at the other shop has a ssd
[15:58:18] <JT-Shop> damn BP is working again!
[15:58:33] <JT-Shop> time to move dirt from one place to another
[16:05:11] <enleth> almost finished the vise - scrubbed off all gunk, sandblasted, cleaned with solvents, repainted, regreased and oiled
[16:05:40] <enleth> all that's left is polishing rust off the gibs and jaws
[16:05:41] <XXCoder> you sandblasted the ballscrew in it?
[16:06:04] <enleth> XXCoder: do you think I did?
[16:06:11] <XXCoder> yep. heh kidding
[16:07:02] <enleth> getting it apart probably took longer than all of the cleaning combined, there was a dowel pin holding a collar on the screw that just didn't want to move
[16:08:07] <FinboySlick> enleth: In Soviet Russia, the pin refuses to move you.
[16:09:52] <enleth> well, that vise might have actually been made by Soviets
[16:18:05] <Deejay> gn8
[16:31:09] <Tom_Lab> zlog,
[17:12:19] <Loetmichel> <- just dismantled an usb charger that stopped working... so much for isolation distances... ballsy those chinese designers :-) ->
http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16244
[17:17:13] <_methods> it's not their house that burns down
[17:17:53] <Loetmichel> true
[17:19:45] <malcom2073> Built to spec
[17:19:49] <malcom2073> not their fault the spec sucked :P
[17:20:11] <_methods> lol
[17:20:48] <CaptHindsight> if you don't notice then they did fine
[17:21:41] <CaptHindsight> it's a concept that westerners just can't seem to comprehend
[17:22:09] <_methods> yeah it's all cool till a mountain of trash slides down and destroys your town
[17:22:19] <_methods> *cough cough* shenzhen
[17:22:28] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[17:23:09] <CaptHindsight> what separates it from being a problem and not a problem is if it hurts anyone
[17:24:11] <CaptHindsight> melamine in baby food = bullet to head when caught
[17:24:31] <_methods> yeah they do have quite the malpractice program
[17:25:31] <CaptHindsight> accepting bribes of $20K or more = bullet to head
[17:26:11] <CaptHindsight> burning lithium batteries in US laptop = shoulder shrug
[17:27:49] <CaptHindsight> the guberment tends to only step in when officials take bribes or if someone dies because of cutting corners
[17:28:33] <CaptHindsight> otherwise it's expected for everyone to cut corners when making anything
[17:29:06] <CaptHindsight> it's not looked down upon like in the west
[17:30:31] <CaptHindsight> if your power supply dies after 2 days of use then it's your fault for buying it
[17:31:18] <CaptHindsight> if the power supplies kill anyone during use, then somebody is getting a bullet to the head
[17:42:21] <enleth> if it kills anyone *in china*
[17:42:54] <unfy> http://anandtech.com/show/10244/compulab-fitletxa10lan-review-a-fanless-amd-ucff-pc-for-networking-applications
[17:43:15] <unfy> uhhh
[17:43:22] <unfy> that wasn't meant for this channel, sorry.
[18:09:50] <Frank__13> hi guys, anyone knows any good quality precision spirit level? i have the starret 98-8 0.005' per feet but thats not enough
[18:12:18] <_methods> starret pretty much is the industry standard for machinist levels
[18:12:30] <_methods> they aren't cheap though typically
[18:29:53] <SpeedEvil> Why do you need better?
[18:30:04] <SpeedEvil> (Not saying you don't)
[18:31:54] <enleth> ever seen a plug and socket pair that would be suitable for making quick-disconnect powertool cables?
[18:32:38] <enleth> I'm getting a little fed up with the dangled pile of shit that inevitably occurs below the powertool rack
[18:33:03] <enleth> and I remember seeing one brand or series of tools that had detachable cables
[18:33:15] <enleth> but they must have used some kind of custom connector
[18:34:30] <enleth> ah, Milwaukee
[18:35:29] <SpeedEvil> microusb
[18:35:51] <enleth> but they obviously don't sell the sockets separately
[18:36:15] <SpeedEvil> This IS almost an ideal case for 3d printing
[18:36:33] <robin_sz> greetings!
[18:36:42] <enleth> 3D printed strain reliefs would delaminate too easily
[18:36:51] <robin_sz> andypugh, ello dude ...
[18:37:01] <SpeedEvil> Overmould silicon rubber
[18:37:04] <enleth> there are limits to FDM and they're mostly about delamination
[18:40:01] <robin_sz> so .. handwheel ...
[18:40:24] <robin_sz> is it possible to limit the speed/step on the axes individually
[18:40:44] <robin_sz> like 50mm a turn on the x1000 setting is great on x and y
[18:40:50] <robin_sz> but way too fast on Z
[18:51:28] <Frank__13> _methods: sorry for the delay, its just that my 98-8 its not enogough, for the hiwin linear rails mounting, its a 2.4mts long axis
[18:51:30] <andypugh> robin_sz: Yes, of course
[18:53:34] <andypugh> each axis has a motion.jog-scale. You probably control those via a mux linked to the selector switch. Just set up a separate mux for the Z axis, controled by the same logic, but with different constants.
[18:54:00] <Frank__13> anyone has any reference about this generic spirit level? thanks :
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KCYZ23Y/ref=s9_simh_gw_g469_i3_r?ie=UTF8&fpl=fresh&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=desktop-1&pf_rd_r=0J6J2MTP366KK3YR1SHW&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=2437869742&pf_rd_i=desktop
[18:54:46] <andypugh> Looks a bit like the one I failed to win on eBay this morning
[18:55:20] <Frank__13> lol
[18:55:59] <andypugh> Frank__13: It’s adjustable. So you adjust it until it reads exactly the same way both ways round, and then it is spot-on. There isn’t really much that can be wrong with an adjustable level.
[18:56:55] <andypugh> The one I tried to bid for was nicer and older:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152051143552
[18:57:12] <Frank__13> so why would that be better than my 98-8 (8inch long starret) that's 80 -90 seconds or .005" per foot
[18:57:30] <andypugh> More accurate?
[18:57:49] <andypugh> Like, 10x as sensitive?
[18:58:32] <Frank__13> but even the 300mm starrets have the same graduations
[18:58:42] <Frank__13> but i get what you say
[18:59:28] <andypugh> A precision level has a less-curved vial, so the bubble moves further per second
[19:05:27] <robin_sz> andypugh, I read what you wrote, and its definitely English ...
[19:05:51] <andypugh> Well, I made up the word “controled"
[19:06:56] <andypugh> robin_sz: It’s hard to be copletely specific witout a psychic link to your HAL file.
[19:07:36] <robin_sz> lol, its the standard HB04 chinkyinese handwheel thingy
[19:08:30] <andypugh> Ah, in that case, I have no idea :-) But the HAL almost certainly links to the axis.2.jog-scale HAL pin somewhere.
[19:09:51] <andypugh> You might want to look at ilowpass while you are messing about scaling jog increments.
[19:12:10] <robin_sz> there is certainly something weird in the config of that jog wheel
[19:12:19] <robin_sz> I found it really jerky
[19:12:30] <dgarr> robin_sz: if you are using xhc-hb04.tcl, you can probably use the scale opition as described in the README
[19:12:32] <dgarr> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=blob;f=configs/sim/axis/xhc-hb04/README;h=5565c26bb0863b31ba0ae37ef581ac13eef8a562;hb=HEAD
[19:12:42] <robin_sz> so, I entered some slow accel values in the jogwheel config
[19:12:49] <robin_sz> and that made it nice and smooth
[19:12:56] <robin_sz> so far so good right?
[19:13:00] <dgarr> scales = 1 1 1 1 (optional, plus/minus factors, default: 1 1 1 1)
[19:13:14] <andypugh> robin_sz: Yes, that’s probaly using ilowpass.
[19:13:26] <robin_sz> ah, dgarr, thats what the scales do, right :)
[19:13:42] <andypugh> Yeah, it looks like they scale things :-)
[19:14:01] <robin_sz> dgarr, I did have a straneg thing ... I lowered the accels to make it smoother
[19:14:07] <robin_sz> and it made it smoother
[19:14:10] <robin_sz> but ...
[19:14:16] <robin_sz> then it would not reference
[19:15:01] <robin_sz> it kinda of hit the switch, then spent about 30mm slowing down, changed sirection .. overshot ...
[19:15:27] <robin_sz> the jog accels seemed to affect the homing
[19:15:51] <robin_sz> I never found out if they affected controlled motion as I could not get it to home
[19:20:21] <dgarr> we had this conversation before, you have to provide enough stopping distance for homing if you lower accel too much
[19:20:23] <dgarr> http://psha.org.ru/irc/%23emc/2015-10-30.html#22:10:15
[19:38:51] <andypugh> I don’t entirely understand why XHC would be lowering the machine accel globally.
[19:41:53] <dgarr> there is an option used by LIB:xhc-hb04.tcl called [XHC_HB04_CONFIG] that multiplexes reduced accels in MANUAL mode if one also sets [APPLICATIONS]APP = xhc-hb04-accels -- its in the README for the sim configs for xhc-hb04
[19:42:41] <dgarr> [XHC_HB04_CONFIG]mpg_accels = v1 v2 v3 v4 (not percents, units/sec^2)
[20:06:32] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2aH_6xlrUw
[20:06:35] <zeeshan> some more machining action
[20:07:28] <zeeshan> hm the sound is crackling
[20:07:29] <zeeshan> annoying
[20:10:15] <unfy> awesome \o/
[20:10:57] <unfy> hand write the gcode, or what cad/cam ?
[20:11:22] <zeeshan> mastercam
[20:16:25] <unfy> way outside my price range heh :D
[20:24:32] <zeeshan> get student version
[20:24:43] <unfy> would, but i aint no student heh
[20:24:56] <unfy> l'll be fiddling with blendercam as time goes on
[20:25:07] <zeeshan> get hsmexpress
[20:25:09] <zeeshan> dont waste time :P
[20:26:37] <Duc> you find a rotary table yet on ebay
[20:26:43] <zeeshan> no
[20:26:46] <zeeshan> havent been looking honestly
[20:26:50] <zeeshan> doubl;e working :[
[20:26:55] <unfy> discount .... discount_machinist ?
[20:27:10] <unfy> something like that... they have some relatively inexpensive rotary tables
[20:34:03] <Duc> ebay also has really nice tables for cheap
[20:34:07] <Duc> real cheap
[20:34:18] <unfy> what i listed was an ebay seller heh
[20:34:23] <unfy> prolly have a dot com store front too
[20:35:48] <Duc> ah
[20:37:10] <Duc> looks like he just sells shars stuff
[20:37:36] <gregcnc> that is shars
[20:38:30] <Duc> but no 4th axis
[20:39:39] <gregcnc> stupid card reader 4.8MB/s transfer.. .. .. .. .. ..
[20:43:19] <gregcnc> zeeshan did you figure out what was happening with your vise?
[20:43:28] <zeeshan> yea
[20:43:28] <zeeshan> lol
[20:43:35] <zeeshan> it was moving the fixed jaw
[20:43:42] <zeeshan> i had to tighten the bolts holding it
[20:43:51] <gregcnc> nice
[20:44:49] <gregcnc> you'll be a pro soon enough
[20:45:09] <zeeshan> :P
[20:45:15] <gregcnc> 300 parts done?
[20:45:19] <zeeshan> nope
[20:45:22] <zeeshan> still running
[20:45:27] <zeeshan> its 500 now
[20:45:39] <zeeshan> im trying to offload some to my friend
[20:45:55] <zeeshan> i shoulda built a miteebite fixture plate
[20:47:00] <gregcnc> that would be nice
[20:47:35] <zeeshan> its crazy how much money they want for 6 of the pitbull clamps
[20:47:41] <zeeshan> its like 89$
[20:47:49] <Duc> yea they are pricey
[20:47:57] <Duc> for such a simple thing
[20:49:28] <gregcnc> yeah I've been trying to come up with something. It seems like pitbulls would be easy to make
[20:51:23] <Duc> but the tolerance are very tight
[20:52:01] <zeeshan> \_____/
[20:52:03] <zeeshan> shape should work
[20:52:37] <zeeshan> its really about doing the math :P
[20:53:23] <zeeshan> the next job after this one im designing a new vape for that customer who i made a bunch for
[20:53:31] <zeeshan> that job ill definitely be using a fixture plate
[20:53:40] <zeeshan> i need to make at least 10 per run
[20:53:57] <zeeshan> but holding wood down is a bit challenging with low profile clamps
[20:55:27] <zeeshan> http://www.carrlane.com/catalog/index.cfm/27825071F0B221118070C1C513E111D081B0006280B1713050245221E0107070F1A3C3B2853564658
[20:55:31] <zeeshan> hmm i wonder how much these are
[20:56:18] <evil_ren> ha they cammed the countersink instead of the screwhead?
[20:56:48] <gregcnc> I want to make tiny double vises for my machine.
[20:56:51] <gregcnc> http://www.apexindustrialsupply.com/tiny-vise-edge-clamps-1/
[20:57:00] <evil_ren> the matrix plate clamps i got uses button head screws with the heads machines into a cam
[20:57:08] <evil_ren> but the ones you linked look neat
[20:57:09] <zeeshan> evil_ren: pic?
[20:57:14] <evil_ren> hmm
[20:57:28] <evil_ren> gimme min i try and find the matrix plate company
[20:57:57] <evil_ren> http://www.hightechsystemsllc.com/taig.html
[20:58:23] <evil_ren> wait wtf wheres the clamp hardware
[20:58:52] <evil_ren> http://www.hightechsystemsllc.com/work_holding.html
[20:59:38] <evil_ren> cam screws are on the bottom, they go into the clamp bars and washers above the screw
[20:59:50] <zeeshan> ah theyre cammed
[20:59:58] <zeeshan> i'd prolly rip the part out
[21:00:00] <zeeshan> with the cut im doing
[21:00:12] <evil_ren> year i think theyre normal stainless button head
[21:00:16] <evil_ren> *yeah
[21:00:20] <zeeshan> if they had serrated edges
[21:00:26] <zeeshan> i think they would work really well
[21:00:47] <evil_ren> its pretty light duty but ive done aluminum cuts with it
[21:02:28] <evil_ren> wow your link, they go down to #8-32
[21:03:48] <evil_ren> zeeshan: where to buy?
[21:05:54] <zeeshan> the miteebite?
[21:06:09] <zeeshan> enco sells em
[21:06:26] <zeeshan> i think this could work:
[21:06:30] <evil_ren> tiny vise edge clamp, just saw gregcnc link
[21:06:41] <zeeshan> make a slot
[21:06:45] <zeeshan> slide in raw stock
[21:06:52] <zeeshan> put a block beside it with screws
[21:07:00] <evil_ren> ASK FOR LEAD TIME ON LINE
[21:07:09] <evil_ren> CARRLANE MINIMUM ORDER $ 100.00 USD
[21:07:11] <zeeshan> use set screws with pointed edges to hold
[21:08:36] <evil_ren> $6 for 10 pack of the mitebite things isnt bad looking
[21:08:57] <zeeshan> what?!
[21:08:59] <zeeshan> where?
[21:09:10] <evil_ren> i meant $6ea for a 10 pack
[21:09:18] <zeeshan> where??
[21:09:26] <zeeshan> for the 1/4"-20 version?
[21:09:59] <evil_ren> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=619-1580
[21:10:11] <zeeshan> oh the old school version
[21:10:14] <evil_ren> no, #10-32, was shopping for my matrix plate
[21:10:23] <evil_ren> yeah not the blocks
[22:12:06] <Tom_itx> zeeshan you can't reuse your vape fixture plate?
[23:58:33] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: no, its a new design
[23:58:44] <zeeshan> and quantity required is more
