#linuxcnc | Logs for 2016-04-10

Back
[00:56:57] <Ralith> linuxcnc is still on kernel 2?
[00:57:20] <Ralith> oh, just linuxcnc versions which are very similar looking
[02:30:51] <Deejay> moin
[02:37:45] <CaptHindsight> Deejay: vas ist los?
[02:38:50] <CaptHindsight> v/w
[02:39:48] <CaptHindsight> der Hund ist locker wieder
[07:18:49] <_methods> minibnz: yeah i have ballscrew on my z but the column still flexes when taking any kind of real cut
[07:19:15] <_methods> i need to add some gussets to the column or something, or maybe just not try and cut anything besides aluminum lol
[07:22:31] <archivist> strengthening columns is getting popular around these parts
[07:25:15] <enleth> Have you ever used those two-part polyurethane paints/enamels they paint machine equipment with?
[07:26:06] <archivist> I just use lidl/aldi metal paint
[07:29:41] <enleth> that "hammered cast iron" look paint?
[07:32:43] <archivist> no, just the plain metal paint the occasionally have
[07:33:44] <archivist> the grey gloss http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=barber
[07:35:38] <archivist> not as hard wearing but price suits me a bit better
[08:05:13] <Encapsulation> http://www.camaster.com/product/stinger-i/
[08:11:54] <Encapsulation> a little above my budgetr
[08:12:00] <Encapsulation> but damn thats a lot for the money I think
[08:12:06] <Encapsulation> welded frame, hiwin railes, PC + monitor included
[08:13:17] <archivist> Free Remote Support Technician for the Life of the Machine until they go bust
[08:14:04] <archivist> rofl Repeatability 0.002” (+/-)
[08:14:22] <archivist> that is 4 thou total
[08:15:32] <Encapsulation> thats a good thing right?
[08:15:41] <Encapsulation> they are actually giving an honest number instead of something made up
[08:15:43] <archivist> no
[08:16:18] <archivist> for that price I would expect far better than 4 thou
[08:16:30] <Encapsulation> how do you get the 4? I'm curious
[08:17:01] <Encapsulation> +- means the repeatability must be doubled?
[08:17:05] <Encapsulation> right I see
[08:17:54] <malcom2073> +/- means in either direction
[08:17:57] <malcom2073> 2 in either direction is 4 total
[08:18:18] <Encapsulation> I sent them an email asking about the accuracy of the machine
[08:18:21] <malcom2073> repeatability should be *way* better than that. Precision? Maybe not
[08:18:50] <Encapsulation> is that because of the rack and pinion drive?
[08:18:52] <Encapsulation> on xy
[08:18:53] <malcom2073> My guess is they're using non anti-backlash screws
[08:18:57] <malcom2073> Ah likely
[08:19:35] <archivist> no way to make your PCBs on that
[08:19:47] <Encapsulation> ok
[08:25:50] <_methods> enleth: i've been looking at the dupont imron stuff for a machine i'm repainting
[08:26:33] <_methods> i need to figure out what you use for primer and filler underneath it though
[08:28:47] <enleth> it would be nice to know someone who works at a machine tool factory and can drop by the painting department
[08:29:30] <_methods> well i think most machine cover/sheetmetal stuff gets powder coated
[08:29:37] <_methods> but castings get painted with imron
[08:29:41] <_methods> or something comparable
[08:29:54] <enleth> wait
[08:30:00] <enleth> maybe just, like
[08:30:06] <enleth> ask dupont?
[08:30:09] <_methods> yep
[08:30:12] <_methods> or ppg
[08:30:17] <_methods> or whoever you get your paints from
[08:32:05] <_methods> or even a local paint store that deals with industrial coatings
[08:32:20] <_methods> they'd probably be able to give you multiple options instead of just dupont stuff
[09:54:34] <CaptHindsight> imron has been around since the 80's
[09:54:58] <CaptHindsight> so old I forget what it is. Polyester?
[09:55:42] <CaptHindsight> ah urethane
[09:56:48] <CaptHindsight> isocyanate
[09:57:21] <Encapsulate> I'm shopping for motors and spindles now
[09:57:33] <Encapsulate> is er16 collet ok?
[09:58:10] <Encapsulate> in chinese spindles, I can't find 2.2kw 110v spindle which has er-16 collet
[09:58:17] <Encapsulate> omio x6-2200l has it... but I dont see how
[09:58:33] <Encapsulate> they all seem to be 220v for 2.2kw on ebay
[09:58:48] <CaptHindsight> _methods: anything for automotive urethane will go under it
[09:58:56] <CaptHindsight> bondo for filler
[09:59:11] <Encapsulate> I like the look of leadshine 3660 for controller, and with 3x 311oz motors + 48v psu I think this is a good deal from george for $350
[09:59:15] <CaptHindsight> any decent primer and sanding
[10:01:34] <Encapsulate> perhaps it would be better to source my own motors though, I would think the ones he includes are nie
[10:01:37] <Encapsulate> nice
[10:01:43] <Encapsulate> or at least matched to the machine
[10:02:19] <Encapsulate> then I will add ethernet smoothstepper to the 3660
[10:02:29] <Encapsulate> then I can use laptop
[10:02:32] <Encapsulate> better than usb
[10:02:54] <CaptHindsight> _methods: 2k primers will be tougher than single part
[10:03:13] <Encapsulate> "The DB25 to LPH26 ribbon cable option allows the Ethernet SmoothStepper to plug directly into all-in-one motor drivers like the MX4660, MX3660, or G540."
[10:03:24] <CaptHindsight> the most important thing is surface prep
[10:03:41] <Encapsulate> g540 seems dated
[10:03:49] <Encapsulate> leadshine 3660 has nicer features now
[10:05:49] <Encapsulate> I'll put the 48v psu the all in one driver board and the smoothstepper into a small enclosure, maybe a small pc case
[10:05:52] <Encapsulate> add estop button
[10:06:02] <Encapsulate> put the spindle vfd in there too
[10:06:07] <Encapsulate> this is going to be nice
[10:06:55] <Encapsulate> then from what I understand I can just bring my laptop over and plug in via ethernet to control the machine
[10:08:59] <CaptHindsight> _methods: http://lumiflonusa.com/product-specifications/ are the longest lasting topcoats
[10:11:52] <CaptHindsight> All Prior Art is a project attempting to algorithmically create and publicly publish all possible new prior art, thereby making the published concepts not patent-able.
[10:12:14] <CaptHindsight> http://allpriorart.com/
[10:12:47] <Encapsulate> http://www.tinycontrols.com/cnc-control-box-kit-1.html maybe a kit like this to make the control box
[10:13:00] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: Monkeys writing shakespeare eh?
[10:14:27] <CaptHindsight> patents sure aren't Shakespeare
[10:14:44] <malcom2073> The concept is the same, random words will eventually make sense
[10:15:59] <CaptHindsight> I think you miss the point of what is actually happening
[10:17:52] <CaptHindsight> just put internet in front of everything
[10:17:59] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem
[10:18:15] <CaptHindsight> put 3d printed in front of everything
[10:19:21] <CaptHindsight> rounded corners, on the smartphone, in a car, in front of everything etc etc
[10:20:04] <CaptHindsight> they will probably change the definition of prior art next
[10:20:04] <_methods> CaptHindsight: interesting i'll look at that stuff
[10:20:11] <_methods> yeah imron is old but tried an true
[10:20:11] <malcom2073> Not just putting those words in front, but trying to make *every* possible combonation of words from previously written patents
[10:20:16] <malcom2073> Thus making any new patents, not possible heh
[10:20:19] <_methods> very resistant to coolants and impact
[10:20:26] <CaptHindsight> wooosh
[10:20:29] <_methods> only bad thing is they isocyanate
[10:20:38] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: http://allpriorart.com/about/
[10:21:26] <CaptHindsight> _methods: imron is an isocyanate
[10:21:33] <_methods> i don't have a positive pressure mask but i do have full face respirator
[10:21:47] <_methods> i think as long as i do the painting outside i'll be good to go
[10:21:48] <CaptHindsight> FEVE can be if you want it to be
[10:22:22] <CaptHindsight> yeah, just don't stand in the overspray
[10:22:26] <_methods> yeah lol
[10:22:56] <_methods> we got rid of our booth at work
[10:23:12] <_methods> i'll just shoot it out in the parking lot lol
[10:23:22] <CaptHindsight> impact resistance requires some flex and good adhesion
[10:23:27] <_methods> and stay upwind
[10:23:33] <CaptHindsight> so not a hard surface
[10:23:35] <_methods> yeah i think that's why most people use imron
[10:23:41] <_methods> since it's very impact resistant
[10:23:46] <_methods> and chem resistant
[10:24:33] <_methods> but if there is something better out there i'm definitely willing to try it
[10:26:31] <CaptHindsight> is there a way for you to dip the machine frame into molten polypropylene?
[10:27:54] <_methods> lol nope
[10:28:04] <_methods> hot dip galvanize it
[10:28:05] <Tom_itx> imron is used for aircraft
[10:28:43] <_methods> ah they use that stuff on planes too eh
[10:29:03] <CaptHindsight> http://www.american-coatings-show.com/ starts tomorrow
[10:29:09] <Tom_itx> i would guess most machines get painted with an enamel
[10:29:48] <_methods> all i want to know is what paint does donald use on his stuff
[10:29:53] <_methods> cause i'm sure it's the best
[10:29:58] <Tom_itx> and probably quite a bit cheaper than imron
[10:30:03] <CaptHindsight> wall building paint
[10:30:30] <CaptHindsight> aliphatic xenophobic urethane
[10:30:39] <_methods> lol
[10:30:59] <_methods> terrorist resistant paint
[10:31:01] <Tom_itx> i saw the 3d print room at the lab last week
[10:31:27] <Tom_itx> shelves full of small printers and a handfull of $$$$ ones
[10:31:33] <_methods> nice
[10:31:38] <Tom_itx> still haven't seen the metal printer
[10:31:48] <_methods> oh they actually have one of them
[10:31:55] <Tom_itx> yes
[10:32:35] <_methods> fun
[10:32:51] <_methods> get your ass in there and print some damn guns
[10:33:05] <Tom_itx> the one in the middle of the room was probably a 3-4' bed
[10:33:23] <Tom_itx> with equal z height
[10:33:52] <_methods> wonder how long a print that size takes
[10:33:59] <_methods> oh that wasn't the metal one
[10:34:07] <Tom_itx> one on one of the smaller ones was timed at 38 hrs
[10:34:16] <_methods> yeah
[10:34:27] <Tom_itx> and it failed toward the end
[10:34:46] <Tom_itx> this wasn't in that lab room but one of the smaller printers in my lab
[10:35:12] <Tom_itx> they've got those cheap ones sprinkled all over the place
[10:35:57] <Tom_itx> they use the main ones for custom jobs for outside companies
[10:38:46] <Tom_itx> i think imron is 2 part epoxy
[10:39:21] <CaptHindsight> 2k urethane
[10:41:42] <CaptHindsight> imron is a urethane that use a fluorinated thinner
[10:42:10] <CaptHindsight> FEVE is superior since it's a fluorinated vinyl
[10:44:54] <CaptHindsight> http://lumiflonusa.com/features-benefits/
[10:45:51] <CaptHindsight> 2-3X the life of isocyanate urethanes
[11:02:43] <_methods> i'll look into that then
[11:10:31] <pcw_home> wonder if dead-in-the-water will ever get running
[11:10:57] <pcw_home> oops
[11:30:01] <Encapsulate> in chinese spindles, I can't find 2.2kw 110v spindle which has er-16 collet
[11:30:07] <Encapsulate> omio x6-2200l has it... but I dont see how
[11:30:21] <Encapsulate> maybe 1500w is enough
[12:01:07] <alex4nder> pcw_home: I see from that latency screenshot that you're getting good latency results from 3.18.7-rt1.. is that your preferred kernel, or just one you happen to be using?
[12:02:56] <pcw_home> Thats just old, I have had spotty results with the 4.4.X kernels so I would not recommend them
[12:03:27] <pcw_home> on the same hardware 4.4.1 is fine
[12:03:32] <alex4nder> ok
[12:05:08] <pcw_home> I've been using this for a month or so on my home desktop:
[12:05:09] <pcw_home> 4.1.15-rt18-rc1 #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Thu Mar 3 21:17:58 PST 2016 i686 i686 i686 GNU/Linux
[12:05:52] <alex4nder> ah, you've got a 32 bit setup going?
[12:05:59] <pcw_home> And it seems fine on an older machine (ubuntu 14.04 Core Duo 8500)
[12:07:19] <pcw_home> yeah, just about to try mint17.3 64 bit on
[12:07:21] <pcw_home> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856173128
[12:08:01] <alex4nder> ok, I'm running debian testing amd64 on a shuttle ds57u
[12:11:18] <pcw_home> should be interesting, may need a fairly new kernel to work
[12:11:43] <alex4nder> yah
[12:11:43] <pcw_home> (might want to compile the kernel on a faster machine)
[12:13:54] <alex4nder> pcw_home: with 4.1.15-rt18, are you getting pretty decent results?
[12:14:11] <pcw_home> yes
[12:14:32] <alex4nder> killer, I'll give that a try
[12:15:44] <pcw_home> anything newer that 3.14 or so seems good latency wise _except_ the 4.4.X kernels which have either had bad latency or hard crashes for me
[12:16:35] <pcw_home> though 4.4.1 on the G3258 seems fine so it may be only later 4.4 kernels where the trouble began
[12:17:48] <CaptHindsight> rt patched 4.4.X kernels or 4.4.X kernels in general are crashy/buggy?
[12:19:10] <pcw_home> Thats been my experience though not sure where the badness starts, As i said I have 4.4.1-rtsomething on the G3258 and its fine
[12:20:16] <alex4nder> I'm using debian's amd64 4.4.0-1-rt-amd64 package, which they versioned 4.4.6-1 .. and it's been stable on this hardware, but the latency numbers aren't great.
[12:22:23] <pcw_home> you might try the 4.1.15 and see if theres any improvement though the Celron 3205 is pretty slow so it may just be that
[12:22:35] <alex4nder> will do; I'm building that right now
[12:23:09] <pcw_home> CaptHindsight: I have not tried any non-rt kernel for a while so do not know
[12:23:45] <alex4nder> make -j 56 ... we live in amazing times
[12:25:18] <pcw_home> in general I have noticed that slow (or perhaps small cache) machines have larger Preempt-RT latency
[12:25:37] <alex4nder> ok
[12:26:30] <pcw_home> for the 7I76E ist not really critical as long as it can run the servo thread without running out of time
[12:28:33] <alex4nder> ok 4.1.15-rt18 built..
[12:30:36] <pcw_home> fast machine!
[12:30:54] <alex4nder> yah, intel's latest chips are nuts
[12:38:39] <mase-tech> I search a alternative for nema 17
[12:39:58] <maxcnc> hi all
[12:40:16] <maxcnc> a first summer day here in South Germany
[12:41:03] <malcom2073> Nice, it snowed here yesterday heh
[12:43:37] <mase-tech> Yes quite enjoyable here in germany :D
[12:43:42] <mase-tech> hi maxcnc
[12:45:30] <maxcnc> ;-)
[12:46:30] <bobo_> BeachBumPete: what is the latest update ?
[12:48:48] <maxcnc> updates are only uefull if they work ;-)(
[12:51:03] <BeachBumPete> http://imgur.com/a/U7htE How's this for an update? ;)
[12:52:29] <zeeshan|2> nice pete
[12:52:30] <zeeshan|2> :P
[12:52:43] <BeachBumPete> thanks zeeshan we had a blast yesterday
[12:53:48] <BeachBumPete> my kids both caught some amberjacks and I caught a baby perch LOL
[12:54:27] <BeachBumPete> I lost a big one (of course) he hit hard and then somehow got off I fought him for a couple seconds that was a lot of fun tho :D
[12:55:19] <BeachBumPete> Still house hunting tho and I am still trying to find my wife a nice SUV for sale...
[12:56:16] <zeeshan|2> 4runnerrrrr
[12:57:00] <BeachBumPete> I am not a big fan of those really. I would rather get the Xterra but she does not like that either. She wants either a jeep Wrangler or some sort of convertible car or something...
[12:57:25] <zeeshan|2> most reliable suv
[12:57:29] <zeeshan|2> from my search
[12:57:49] <alex4nder> BeachBumPete: apropos of nothing, I just did a 10 hour roadtrip in an Xterra.. nothing but complaints from passengers in it
[12:57:51] <zeeshan|2> https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/4b/08/47/4b0847e00ee8e352ff2df315fa00e778.jpg
[12:57:55] <zeeshan|2> im gonna mode mine to look like this
[12:57:55] <zeeshan|2> haha
[12:57:59] <zeeshan|2> minus the ski crap
[12:58:02] <zeeshan|2> i hate snowboarding/skin
[12:58:05] <zeeshan|2> *skiing
[12:58:31] <maxcnc> pete here on the local university they build this out of concrete
[12:58:43] <BeachBumPete> alex4nder if I am going to take a 10 hour road trip I am gonna take my comfy astro van :D
[12:59:17] <alex4nder> yah
[12:59:24] <BeachBumPete> I just took it to a custom stereo shop the other day and had them install a brand new pioneer DVD/usb/bluetooth unit and man it kicks ass
[12:59:36] <maxcnc> Q someone here ever been to bearning man in Nevada ive been overt 2 tickets
[12:59:52] <BeachBumPete> once they get the new drop down TV in stock I am gonna have them install that too for the kids to watch videos on
[12:59:59] <maxcnc> seams this is a desert event
[13:00:01] <alex4nder> BeachBumPete: we had 1200 lbs of passengers and gear in the Xterra, and the backend was bottoming out going over minor bumps in the road
[13:00:29] <BeachBumPete> alex4nder what year X?
[13:01:07] <alex4nder> I believe it was a 2015
[13:01:21] <BeachBumPete> OK
[13:01:28] <maxcnc> im off gn8
[13:01:30] <BeachBumPete> personally I prefer the first gens
[13:02:39] <zeeshan|2> alex4nder: i didnt hear too good reviews online for the xterra
[13:02:47] <zeeshan|2> i need something with a strong engine and trans
[13:03:00] <alex4nder> there's not a lot in the SUV market with that anymore
[13:03:07] <zeeshan|2> the 4runner is the only one i can find
[13:03:10] <zeeshan|2> that i can afford
[13:03:15] <zeeshan|2> https://www.ncconsumer.org/news-articles/settlement-reached-in-lawsuit-against-nissan-over-failed-radiators-transmissions.html
[13:03:19] <alex4nder> I like the old XJ cherokees
[13:03:20] <zeeshan|2> that is what i saw about the xterras
[13:03:25] <BeachBumPete> 4 runners and known to roll over easily just sayin'
[13:03:36] <zeeshan|2> BeachBumPete: itll still drive after a roll over
[13:03:41] <zeeshan|2> the subaru pos just blow engines
[13:03:44] <zeeshan|2> cant do shit
[13:03:48] <BeachBumPete> it might but you won't LOL
[13:03:57] <zeeshan|2> any suv will roll over
[13:04:02] <zeeshan|2> high cg.
[13:04:05] <zeeshan|2> its not a 4 door sedan
[13:04:16] <BeachBumPete> true but they have one of the worst reps for that
[13:05:34] * zeeshan|2 checks 4runners
[13:05:35] <BeachBumPete> where we lived in Tennessee there was a yard nearby that specialized in toyota spare parts. it was FULL of rolled over toyota 4 runners
[13:05:37] <zeeshan|2> to see what youre talkin about
[13:05:38] <zeeshan|2> :P
[13:06:23] <BeachBumPete> if you want a toyota I would absolutely get a landcruiser over the 4 runner... way better truck
[13:06:43] <zeeshan|2> i dont want an ancient car.
[13:06:46] <zeeshan|2> i want something with a 8 year warranty
[13:07:07] <BeachBumPete> they still make them only now they are called infiniti or something :D
[13:07:09] <zeeshan|2> fyi the 4runner is based of the hilux
[13:07:20] <zeeshan|2> which is as far as top gear is cocnerned
[13:07:26] <zeeshan|2> the most reliable truck of all time
[13:07:26] <zeeshan|2> :)
[13:07:29] <zeeshan|2> im sure youve seen that episode!
[13:07:40] <BeachBumPete> I have seen that episode and it was EPIC
[13:07:49] <zeeshan|2> they tried so hard to blow it up
[13:07:50] <zeeshan|2> haha
[13:07:58] <BeachBumPete> but the truck they tested and the ones they are selling now are completely different vehicles
[13:08:07] <zeeshan|2> like i said
[13:08:09] <zeeshan|2> ive searched a lot
[13:08:15] <zeeshan|2> and 4runner is the most reliable
[13:08:23] <zeeshan|2> which at this point is the most important
[13:08:26] <BeachBumPete> well good luck with it :D
[13:08:29] <zeeshan|2> and second is full-time 4wd
[13:08:31] <zeeshan|2> and third is cost
[13:09:00] <zeeshan|2> part time 4wd isn't going to cut it for me :/
[13:10:05] <mase-tech> I suggest to buy a german car. Like seat ateca
[13:10:44] <mase-tech> An exeption might be the discovery sport
[13:11:35] <zeeshan|2> BeachBumPete: youre right the land cruiser is called j200
[13:11:39] <zeeshan|2> but in canada it comes as the lexus lx
[13:11:44] <zeeshan|2> too much money
[13:12:19] <alex4nder> in canada I'd import a recent-year hilux
[13:12:27] * JT-Shopp thinks it is time to clean the shop
[13:12:35] <zeeshan|2> alex4nder: its called toyota 4runner here
[13:12:45] <zeeshan|2> in eurpoe its called hilux surf
[13:12:47] <zeeshan|2> its the same car
[13:12:51] <zeeshan|2> from my understanding..
[13:12:54] <alex4nder> zeeshan|2: I mean the old hilux, not the renamed hilux platform they have now
[13:13:04] <zeeshan|2> wont have warranty
[13:13:12] <alex4nder> oh, I missed that
[13:13:34] <zeeshan|2> jesus christ
[13:13:38] <zeeshan|2> the lx 470 is 105,000 $
[13:13:42] <zeeshan|2> yea well outside my budget :)
[13:13:53] <BeachBumPete> yup they are proud of them :D
[13:14:08] <zeeshan|2> i want to spend at most 35-36
[13:14:13] <zeeshan|2> and have at least 8 year warranty
[13:14:19] <zeeshan|2> im going to be doing some far trips this year
[13:14:23] <zeeshan|2> and upcoming decade :P
[13:14:28] <BeachBumPete> Get a used defender 90 or 110 :D
[13:14:38] <alex4nder> he wants a warranty
[13:14:46] <zeeshan|2> i think the toyota extended warranty gets you to from 5 to 8 years
[13:14:50] <BeachBumPete> save your money for repair
[13:14:56] <zeeshan|2> no thx
[13:15:02] <zeeshan|2> i learned with the subaru warranty is important
[13:15:10] <zeeshan|2> 3500 tow
[13:15:14] <zeeshan|2> and 5000 in parts so far
[13:15:14] <BeachBumPete> so is capability
[13:15:25] <zeeshan|2> and hours and hours of my time
[13:15:32] <zeeshan|2> never again for my daily driver.
[13:15:57] <zeeshan|2> http://imgur.com/a/rimvV
[13:16:00] <zeeshan|2> on a bright note
[13:16:02] <zeeshan|2> its almsot done :D
[13:16:29] <BeachBumPete> you could also get a nice 4 door rubicon jeep
[13:16:35] <zeeshan|2> no
[13:16:39] <zeeshan|2> they're unrelaible
[13:17:21] <BeachBumPete> if this toyota of yours is so damn good and reliable why are you still talking about it? How come it is not already in your driveway?
[13:17:31] <zeeshan|2> need to trade in the subaru
[13:17:35] <zeeshan|2> to be able to afford it
[13:19:12] <alex4nder> I like buying cars that are so depreciated, that the market won't let them get any cheaper
[13:19:19] <alex4nder> you can determine 'true' reliability/value that way
[13:19:35] <zeeshan|2> thats one thing im happy about the subaru
[13:19:37] <zeeshan|2> they dont depreciate
[13:19:43] <zeeshan|2> the trade in value is 20k right now
[13:19:54] <zeeshan|2> i bought it for 26
[13:20:04] <BeachBumPete> I am thru buying brand new vehicles personally you just loose thousands of dollars on every one of them no matter who makes it.
[13:20:16] <zeeshan|2> gotta buy at least a year old
[13:20:44] <BeachBumPete> nevermind the prices are INSANE on most of them that I would even want
[13:20:45] <zeeshan|2> from my observations on the market value of this suv
[13:20:54] <zeeshan|2> it goes drop 50k to 36 after first year
[13:20:56] <alex4nder> zeeshan|2: what year subaru?
[13:21:09] <zeeshan|2> then stablizes to 30 for the next 4-5 years models
[13:21:16] <zeeshan|2> 2010
[13:21:29] <alex4nder> 2010 with a blown engine is a shame
[13:21:36] <zeeshan|2> at 35000 miles...
[13:21:36] <BeachBumPete> 50k for a damn SUV is just crazy in my view but I am not you...
[13:21:43] <alex4nder> zeeshan|2: what happened?
[13:21:51] <alex4nder> oil pressure?
[13:21:52] <zeeshan|2> too much :P
[13:22:07] <zeeshan|2> alex4nder: its such a bad engine
[13:22:13] <zeeshan|2> that i built it myself, measured everything
[13:22:15] <zeeshan|2> and im still selling it
[13:22:19] <zeeshan|2> does that tell you something?
[13:22:24] <alex4nder> yah, I've never been a fan
[13:22:37] <zeeshan|2> its get a bad oiling design
[13:22:39] <zeeshan|2> i can't fix that
[13:22:50] <zeeshan|2> it might blow at 25000 miles
[13:22:54] <zeeshan|2> or it might blow at 200k miles
[13:22:57] <zeeshan|2> you just dont know
[13:23:12] <zeeshan|2> *get = got
[13:23:43] <zeeshan|2> im almost to the point where i want to take apart the engine and trans of any car i get before i get the car.
[13:23:44] <zeeshan|2> lol
[13:23:55] <zeeshan|2> to see how good/bad it is built
[13:24:23] <alex4nder> hah
[13:24:44] <zeeshan|2> i've been driving my beater car for almost 2 months now
[13:24:49] <zeeshan|2> car of shame
[13:24:53] <zeeshan|2> :"(
[13:25:14] <alex4nder> I bought a 4g63 in my last car, because I figured they had 15 years to get it working right
[13:25:33] <zeeshan|2> mitsubishi is awesome for engines
[13:25:37] <zeeshan|2> but bad for transmission
[13:25:48] <zeeshan|2> my engine had prolly 450-500k km
[13:25:56] <zeeshan|2> but i went thru 2 transmissions during that time
[13:26:03] <zeeshan|2> but luckily they weren't sudden failures
[13:26:08] <zeeshan|2> had time to limp back home and fix
[13:26:18] <alex4nder> zeeshan|2: yah, aisin made the transmission in my car
[13:26:44] <alex4nder> I don't know if that ends up being good or bad
[13:30:28] <zeeshan|2> alex4nder: what car
[13:30:46] <alex4nder> zeeshan|2: evo 9
[13:30:50] <zeeshan|2> nice!
[13:31:04] <zeeshan|2> i had a 4g64 w/ evo head on it
[13:31:15] <zeeshan|2> evo 8
[13:31:18] <alex4nder> nice
[13:31:27] <zeeshan|2> strong ass engine :D
[13:31:32] <alex4nder> yah, for real
[13:31:37] <alex4nder> I've been happy with that car
[13:42:17] <robin__> It looks like the "xset s <blah>" procedure has stopped the screen going off
[13:43:04] <robin__> does anyone know, is that permanent? or do I need to make some random addition to some xconfig file?
[13:50:40] <gregcnc> hmmm www.ebay.com/itm/291733295238
[13:51:00] <malcom2073> Seems legit
[13:51:02] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: ^^
[13:51:22] <CaptHindsight> I have 2 in each size
[13:51:54] <malcom2073> I like the idea, I may 3d print a couple of them, my t-slot scraper doesn't quite get everything
[13:52:27] <CaptHindsight> really needs a surfactant and a brush
[13:52:57] * JT-Shop needs a small gantry something or other
[13:52:58] <gregcnc> but what color do you get?
[13:53:15] <malcom2073> Do they make brushes made to fit into that space?
[13:53:33] <malcom2073> Or rather, how do you get a brush down in the corners of the t?
[13:53:33] <CaptHindsight> 3d print the brush
[13:53:36] <gregcnc> I think I've seen brushes
[13:54:26] <malcom2073> I need to figure out a better way to stop my bed from rusting
[13:54:43] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: a 4runner with some beefing up of the trans is good
[13:55:08] <CaptHindsight> I just don't like having to rebuild automatics more often than 300K miles or so
[13:56:00] <CaptHindsight> finding one with a good body can be difficult
[13:56:03] <gregcnc> Boeshield? or the LPS equal maybe LPS3
[13:57:58] <CaptHindsight> somebody needs to invent swarf eating insects
[13:58:19] <malcom2073> Metal eating nanobots
[13:58:23] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: if it can last 200k miles
[13:58:26] <malcom2073> I'm pretty sure there's movies about that somewhere
[13:58:26] <zeeshan|2> id be more than happy!!
[13:59:10] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: as long as you're not towing or beating it should not be an issue
[13:59:22] <zeeshan|2> i might tow atvs
[13:59:23] <zeeshan|2> w/ it
[13:59:26] <zeeshan|2> not might, i will be
[13:59:39] <zeeshan|2> and some off road trails
[13:59:48] <zeeshan|2> not any of the hardcore rock suff you see on youtube :P
[14:03:20] <CaptHindsight> I use mostly all parts from Toyota from a dealer in NM
[14:03:36] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: you have a 4runner?
[14:03:48] <CaptHindsight> I have land cruisers
[14:03:57] <zeeshan|2> cool
[14:04:09] <CaptHindsight> i got tired of having to fix cars all the time
[14:04:24] <zeeshan|2> same here thats why i got the subaru
[14:04:28] <zeeshan|2> BFM
[14:04:31] <zeeshan|2> :P
[14:04:41] <DaViruz> so how's that working out for you
[14:04:41] <CaptHindsight> I drive ~40K miles a year
[14:04:42] <DaViruz> :)
[14:04:56] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: how is the land cruiser working out
[14:05:00] <zeeshan|2> DaViruz: did you see the engine build
[14:05:04] <zeeshan|2> its almost done hooray
[14:05:12] <zeeshan|2> im building a crank pulley tool for it right now
[14:05:35] <DaViruz> i saw the innovative cam sprocket torque setup..
[14:05:36] <DaViruz> :)
[14:05:41] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: never have any issues, just do the regular maintenance
[14:06:22] <CaptHindsight> I pulled the front diff apart last year to rebuild at 250K miles and I just replaced the seals and readjusted it...
[14:06:37] <zeeshan|2> i dont mind that at all CaptHindsight
[14:06:42] <zeeshan|2> as long as im not rebuilding engines every 30k
[14:06:44] <zeeshan|2> !! :D
[14:06:50] <zeeshan|2> DaViruz: haha
[14:06:52] <CaptHindsight> I kept the old bearings in and figure that I'll replace them in another 100K
[14:06:54] <zeeshan|2> a lot of forum people do it
[14:06:56] <zeeshan|2> my touch with the c-clamp
[14:06:59] <zeeshan|2> *was
[14:07:28] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: did you have to drop the entire trans
[14:07:31] <zeeshan|2> to access the front diff?
[14:07:52] <CaptHindsight> I rebuilt the engine at 180K since the only weak spot Mr T did was the head gasket
[14:07:53] <zeeshan|2> im not sure how the transmission arrangement is :P
[14:08:18] <zeeshan|2> 180k miles is a lot of life from an engine
[14:08:22] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: nope, you pull the axles and the diff comes out of the case with 12 bolts
[14:08:23] <zeeshan|2> for me :P
[14:08:29] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: nice
[14:08:46] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: the improved head gasket design is good for at least 300K
[14:08:57] <zeeshan|2> starts pushing coolant?
[14:08:58] <zeeshan|2> or burning oil
[14:09:28] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: the old design was too thin between the last 2 cylinders
[14:09:54] <CaptHindsight> so it would lose coolant or hydro lock when hot
[14:10:00] <zeeshan|2> ouch
[14:10:09] <zeeshan|2> hopefully they addressed it by 2015
[14:10:20] <CaptHindsight> water --> hot cylinder ---> steam
[14:10:57] <CaptHindsight> the new head gasket has a few extra mm of metal between the cylinders now
[14:11:40] <CaptHindsight> other than that they run pretty much forever, the cylinders use sleeves that come in 3 larger sizes for swaps at 300K miles
[14:11:56] <CaptHindsight> they figure it's a 1 million mile engine
[14:12:31] <CaptHindsight> I could not measure any cylinder wear so I kept the original sleeves
[14:12:54] <alex4nder> which engine model?
[14:14:27] <CaptHindsight> 1FZ-FE
[14:15:07] <CaptHindsight> the head was out maybe 1-2 thou with the bad gasket
[14:16:15] <CaptHindsight> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_FZ_engine
[14:16:42] <alex4nder> cool
[14:16:56] <CaptHindsight> I thought about a cummins diesel swap
[14:17:09] <CaptHindsight> but I'll probably just add a turbo soon
[14:17:28] <alex4nder> cool
[14:17:34] <CaptHindsight> there is a factory bolt on supercharger
[14:18:23] <zeeshan|2> the 4runner im lookin at has the 2TR-FE engine
[14:18:32] <CaptHindsight> http://forum.ih8mud.com/attachments/img_0769-jpg.496863/
[14:18:47] <zeeshan|2> 5500 rpm redline will be new to me :)
[14:19:39] <zeeshan|2> er wrong code
[14:19:42] * zeeshan|2 noob
[14:20:01] <alex4nder> CaptHindsight: a turbo would be fun
[14:20:12] <alex4nder> and probably a nice efficiency improvement
[14:20:34] <zeeshan|2> 1GR-FE
[14:21:01] <CaptHindsight> https://imagebin.ca/v/2dJ2AMw2qmBE front diff at 250K miles
[14:21:15] <zeeshan|2> Output is 236 hp (176 kW) at 5200 rpm with 266 lb·ft (361 N·m) of torque at 4000 rpm on 87 octane, and 239 hp (178 kW) at 5200 rpm with 278 lb·ft (377 N·m) at 3700 rpm on 91 octane
[14:21:17] <zeeshan|2> interesting
[14:21:30] <zeeshan|2> looks good capt :P
[14:21:43] <CaptHindsight> I was ready for the full rebuild
[14:21:59] <CaptHindsight> but I just readjusted and changed the seals
[14:22:24] <CaptHindsight> I'll peek back in if I hear anything or in 100K
[14:25:40] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: and that was with the front seals leaking all the grease into the case, so the ring and pinion was really only lubed by grease the last 50K or so
[14:26:13] <zeeshan|2> lol
[14:26:35] <zeeshan|2> don't underestimate the power of grease!
[14:26:47] <CaptHindsight> what proper selection of alloy and heat treating can do
[14:31:58] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: http://tinyurl.com/z8n9q9x ring gear adjustment is by rotating that splined nut, each spline is .001" movement, no shims!
[14:32:19] <zeeshan|2> wow
[14:32:22] <zeeshan|2> that makes things easier
[14:41:46] <miss0r> you know what pisses me off? Having to learn a new CAM, because I lack the ability to write a post processor for the cam I know and love.
[14:42:10] <enleth> Got a vice for the bridgeport, a nice 60kg piece of Commie cast iron, didn't even bother to measure it before handing it off to a friend for sandblasting
[14:42:14] <miss0r> that and bad circus clows
[14:42:25] <enleth> 150mm wide or something like that, maybe 160
[14:43:48] <enleth> no, wait, just took a look at some 150mm calipers
[14:43:54] <malcom2073> lol
[14:43:56] <malcom2073> Freedom untis?
[14:43:57] <enleth> must have been 200 across the vice
[14:43:58] <malcom2073> units*
[14:44:01] <malcom2073> Nice
[14:44:57] <enleth> the thing is probably half a century old and a bit battered, some cretin must have drilled into it repeatedly and then repaired it by welding
[14:45:22] <enleth> but the base is nice and flat and the undamaged part of the top surface indicates nicely
[14:45:35] <enleth> 0.01mm out of level left to right
[14:46:26] <enleth> 0.04 front to back across maximum opened width
[14:46:41] <enleth> could have been some piece of crap stuck under it really
[14:47:17] <enleth> so worst case I'll have it ground a down a little
[14:48:21] <enleth> *s/ a //
[15:02:26] <alex4nder> ok, so with 4.1.15-rt18, I'm seeing +/- 28 uS on the servo thread..
[15:02:39] <alex4nder> that's with intel_idle.max_cstate=0 processor.max_cstate=0 idle=poll
[15:16:33] <pcw_home> Not bad, I first thought the 3205 was like the n2807 but its a Broadwell, more like a dual core 1.5 GHz Haswell
[15:18:20] <alex4nder> pcw_home: they have an i3 and an i5 version of this machine now.. I wonder if it'd make sense to bite the bullet and pugrade
[15:18:51] <pcw_home> if the GUI speed is acceptable I would not bother
[15:18:59] <alex4nder> ok
[15:19:11] <alex4nder> I'll finish getting the mill setup with this machine, and see how that goes.
[15:20:23] <pcw_home> almost 3x as fast as the D525 atoms
[15:21:11] <pcw_home> also 2x the per core cache of the J1800/1900/N28xx series
[15:25:27] <JT-Shop> that the one you linked the other day?
[15:26:35] <pcw_home> no its a different mini pc
[15:27:11] <JT-Shop> well break minute is over back to digging
[15:27:30] <yasnak> well, i placed first in most drunk at the sarasota regatta
[15:27:48] <yasnak> so i got that going for me...which is nice
[15:28:35] <yasnak> i see zeeshan is still crying about his car :P i kidd
[16:11:45] <Encapsulate> getting closer
[16:12:14] <malcom2073> I don't believe you
[16:16:01] <Encapsulate> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPKjFHkreLA
[16:16:17] <Encapsulate> need one of these for sure
[16:16:30] <Duc> still lol
[16:20:32] <malcom2073> HEh
[16:27:47] <XXCoder> bleh
[16:27:56] <XXCoder> I cant find the dnged o2 sensor fuse anywhere
[16:34:20] <JT-Shop> I wonder if this really works ok http://www.amazon.com/SMAKN%C2%AE-Upgraded-Version-Segments-Stepper/dp/B016ZJS1FA/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1460322460&sr=8-7&keywords=stepper+driver
[16:35:28] <Jymmm> No mention of midband compensation
[16:35:43] <JT-Shop> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B01CWMR23G?psc=1
[16:36:13] <JT-Shop> a TB6600 for $17 with free shipping
[16:37:47] <JT-Shop> is the tb6600 the newer one?
[16:38:24] <malcom2073> iirc, the 6600's don't have midband compensation
[16:38:25] <CaptHindsight> yes
[16:38:38] <malcom2073> and yeah the 6600 is the newer one, 6560 is the older
[16:39:16] <CaptHindsight> $17 sounds low, I wonder if they skimp on parts
[16:39:21] <ReadError> http://www.amazon.com/TB6600-Stepper-Driver-Controller-Micro-Step/dp/B01CWMR1JG/
[16:39:24] <ReadError> even cheaper lol
[16:39:26] <zeeshan|2> zeeshan 1 subaru 0 http://imgur.com/a/OaqUx
[16:39:27] <zeeshan|2> :D
[16:39:27] <ReadError> 13.18$
[16:40:09] <JT-Shop> found one for $15 on amazon prime with 2 day shipping
[16:40:19] <JT-Shop> I think I'll splurge lol
[16:40:19] <CaptHindsight> http://www.amazon.com/SainSmart-TB6600-Micro-Stepping-Stepper-Driver/dp/B00MQGSLNE vs $30
[16:42:25] <JT-Shop> http://www.amazon.com/SMAKN%C2%AE-Upgraded-Version-Segments-Stepper/dp/B016ZJS1FA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1460322986&sr=8-1&keywords=tb6600&refinements=p_85%3A2470955011
[16:42:30] <JT-Shop> same one $15
[16:43:01] <XXCoder> not bad
[16:43:13] <JT-Shop> no, they are different
[16:44:10] <JT-Shop> I just want to play with them not make a real anything, I have a hand full of nema 17's just need some drives
[16:44:42] <malcom2073> They're good for simple stuff
[16:45:20] <malcom2073> You'll often have to add a dampner to a screw depending on if the resonance decideds to bite you if you spin it too fast
[16:46:04] <malcom2073> dampener*
[16:58:19] <Deejay> gn8
[16:58:22] <Roguish> oh joy. just filed the taxes.......
[16:59:17] <JT-Shop> I'm still catching up my books lol
[16:59:36] <SWPLinux> JT-Shop: from which year?
[16:59:45] <Roguish> guess ya got until the 18th this year.
[17:00:16] <Roguish> just about broke even. only paying about a grand.
[17:00:24] <JT-Shop> last year lol
[17:00:41] <JT-Shop> I have 3 more months to put in slowbooks
[17:01:12] <Roguish> that's a good one.......
[17:01:12] <Duc> yea we also owe about a grand. was getting back about 6grand till I entered the wifes paystub
[17:01:13] <SWPLinux> I'm still working on (or at least thinking about working on) 2014. sigh.
[17:01:25] <Roguish> SWP very good to see you again.....
[17:01:37] <JT-Shop> I'd be happy to pay a lot of taxes
[17:01:57] <JT-Shop> it's been a long time since I did
[17:02:16] <Roguish> JT i completely agree. I don't understand people bitching about paying lots of taxes.
[17:02:38] <Duc> yea yea
[17:02:43] <Roguish> I just would like to get better value for my money.....
[17:02:44] <Duc> wish I was rich
[17:02:45] <JT-Shop> you know what I mean then :)
[17:03:12] <JT-Shop> well that is a different story and I don't thing that will ever happen
[17:03:18] <SWPLinux> hi Roguish, thanks, it's been a while.
[17:04:02] <Roguish> JT-Shop: got a new job a few weeks ago. www.cvmcvm.com
[17:04:23] <Roguish> small custom machines and stuff.
[17:05:25] <JT-Shop> cool
[17:05:50] <JT-Shop> ohh they build some neat stuff
[17:06:32] <Roguish> yeah.. working on some fast food automation now. that's what happens when the min wage goes up.
[17:07:05] <JT-Shop> automatic burger flipper?
[17:07:40] <Roguish> kinda sorta. trying to put a lot of lower wage people out of work.
[17:08:00] <BitEvil> It's pretty irrelevant to min wage
[17:08:16] <JT-Shop> I designed and built 3 of these http://gnipsel.com/images/Briggs/Tab%20Grinder%20Automatic.JPG
[17:08:20] <BitEvil> it's getting way, way cheaper to automate stuff with the crashing price of electronics, ease of open vision/... stacks, ...
[17:09:21] <JT-Shop> grinds the compression release for a briggs motor in <3 second cycle time to +-0.0005" tolerance
[17:09:29] <Duc> Roguish: would you be working out of San Fran
[17:09:30] <JT-Shop> compression release tab
[17:09:49] <Roguish> see this: https://www.eatsa.com/ the front of the place is totally automated. now they're trying to automate the food prep side.
[17:09:58] <Roguish> Duc: yeah. East Bay
[17:10:06] <Duc> Roguish: brother in law interview for a job doing something like that
[17:10:19] <Roguish> there
[17:10:36] <Roguish> there's is a fair bit of it around.
[17:10:43] <Duc> Not sure which place it was. There was NDA in place so he couldnt say much
[17:11:26] <Roguish> cost of living is so high here, it's actually kinda hard to get low wage workers. a vicious circle. costs up, wages us, costs up, and on and on.....
[17:11:52] <Duc> yea even as a engineer they would have to pay him 200k to meet his current level of living
[17:11:54] <Roguish> https://www.eatsa.com/careers
[17:12:05] <Roguish> look at the bottom of the page.
[17:12:59] <Duc> still not sure why company want to be based out of there
[17:13:04] <Roguish> we just did a traveling pizza oven setup...
[17:13:15] <Duc> nice
[17:13:21] <Duc> fully automated?
[17:13:31] <enleth> can't decide what color to paint the vise - something utilitarian like grey, or something outlandish like pink, blaze orange or Windows 98 desktop teal
[17:13:38] <Roguish> and tons of lab equipment for Clorox which is just around the corner.
[17:14:35] <Roguish> Clorox makes tons of brands. not just bleach.
[17:15:41] <Duc> I wish i could have the funds to automate our assembly lines
[17:15:58] <JT-Shop> what do you assemble
[17:16:23] <Duc> firearms
[17:16:49] <Roguish> OH, like Eli Whitney?
[17:17:04] <JT-Shop> modern or black powder?
[17:17:36] <Duc> modern
[17:17:51] <Duc> rifles, pistols, ar15
[17:18:32] <Roguish> it's all a matter of cost and time. (like most things in life)
[17:19:14] <JT-Shop> time for me to prep the grill
[17:19:34] <Roguish> go man go.
[17:19:44] <Duc> Yep. I was lucky to get money for PLC, Atlas copcos and custom fixtures still 500,000+
[17:20:02] <JT-Shop> cut down a small black cherry tree the other day so some good smoking wood there
[17:21:04] <yasnak> hey
[17:21:24] <yasnak> zeeshan nice job
[17:21:41] <yasnak> gotta love those duct tape jobs haha. especially when duct tape isn't used.
[17:23:23] <djdelorie> amusingly enough, the only job duck tape isn't legally allowed for is ducts...
[17:24:31] <enleth> djdelorie: get some Nashua 357, it's certified for use at the ISS
[17:25:59] <djdelorie> yeah but it all started with Duck brand tape, which isn't plenum-rated so you can't use it on ducts
[17:26:33] <djdelorie> it got its name because it was water repellent, for outdoor use
[17:29:27] <yasnak> ahhhhh
[17:29:33] <yasnak> Duck = Duct
[17:29:45] <yasnak> I blame it on the lemonade, I promise :P
[17:31:29] <yasnak> I forgot what my go-to tape is. Its like duck/duct-tape on roids. I used it back when I had a sailboat and needed something to keep water out of the gap between the mast and the boot.
[17:35:51] <alex4nder> hmm, I can't ping my 7i76e for some reason.. this worked last time I was messing with this.
[17:39:55] <JT-Shop> got the address correct?
[17:40:07] <JT-Shop> plugged into the correct port?
[17:40:13] <alex4nder> yup
[17:40:22] <JT-Shop> ping with mesaflash?
[17:40:46] <alex4nder> I'm going to try that right now
[17:41:23] <JT-Shop> is your address set to static?
[17:41:45] <alex4nder> yup
[17:42:21] <alex4nder> where should I grab mesaflash from? github.com/micges/mesaflash?
[17:42:28] <JT-Shop> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15749702/
[17:42:49] <alex4nder> thanks
[17:42:50] <JT-Shop> sudo apt-get -y install mesaflash
[17:43:02] <alex4nder> I'm using Debian testing
[17:43:05] <JT-Shop> the notes should be the same for the 7i76e
[17:43:07] <alex4nder> with my own build
[17:43:58] <JT-Shop> rt-preempt?
[17:44:10] <alex4nder> yah
[17:44:29] <XXCoder> sudo make me a sandwinch
[17:48:25] <alex4nder> ok, I'll shut this down and take a look at it later.
[17:48:29] <alex4nder> JT-Shop: thanks for the suggestions
[17:51:30] <XXCoder> bah no sandwinch
[17:51:35] <XXCoder> heh
[17:51:40] <XXCoder> gonna love xkcd
[18:10:17] <yasnak> http://imgur.com/a/SrYwP
[18:10:57] <yasnak> any ideas? need ideas before I go ahead and take this thing apart only to find there was an easier solution. this is more engineering then machinist related haha.
[18:11:42] <Duc> you looking to fix the tilt?
[18:17:31] <yasnak> yes
[18:17:34] <yasnak> sorry for delay
[18:17:58] <Duc> can you hold it horizontal?
[18:18:42] <Duc> or can you force it back to being correct?
[18:19:08] <yasnak> As in you think the set screw is stripped?
[18:19:17] <Duc> yea
[18:19:33] <Duc> or the threads in the collar are
[18:19:37] <yasnak> I haven't tried. These are half mil machines haha, that said it probably would and is my guess as well. Not really sure how to fix this without some good sized repair
[18:20:09] <Duc> does the machine run? or Im guessing your trying to fix before people find out?
[18:20:24] <yasnak> Yeah and it seems like the set screw actually shoved the flange piece on the control side up so I'm guessing an operator tried putting it in haha
[18:20:56] <yasnak> Oh yeah it runs, it runs 24/7 besides now. Down for coolant change and realignment. Ended up trying to get this done before someone hangs on it and rips the entire control off
[18:21:33] <Duc> hard lock it in place some how but you will probably need the rep in to replace the part
[18:21:54] <Duc> a operator will hang off it or someone will place their elbow on it
[18:21:59] <yasnak> Yep
[18:22:23] <yasnak> I have a "larger" setup guy who basically drove me nuts friday. Told myself I'd fix this ASAP after watching him
[18:22:49] <Duc> Ive seen what our operators do so I always expect the worse
[18:22:49] <yasnak> Yeah, rep. Heh. Star is fun with that stuff. Not even sure they're still in business :P
[18:23:11] <Duc> I would back up the paramenters before anyone works on it
[18:23:54] <yasnak> I hear you man, its amazing sometimes. Just when I thought I've seen it all you've got some guy who forgets to take the guidebushing adjustment wrench our of the back and blows the keyway and guidebushing up. That was last weekend :P
[18:24:42] <yasnak> Yeah my thoughts exactly. I'll probably get that done tonight and see what/who I can get ahold of at star tomorrow. Its just not worth running it this way, that control is barely hanging there. Its worse then it looks
[18:24:55] <Duc> yea we had a guy crush a 25k rotary table not a week after shearing the spindle keys off.
[18:25:19] <Duc> even if it means a metal strap and metal screws
[18:25:52] <yasnak> jesus
[18:25:58] <yasnak> he still working there? :P
[18:26:26] <Duc> hell no but that poor Koma rotary
[18:27:43] <Duc> what kind of parts do the machines make
[18:39:28] <Nick001> <pcw_home> you around?
[18:40:02] <yasnak> the machines make anything from pins to polyaxial screws
[18:42:27] <yasnak> these are the opposable gang 11 axis machines so they're mostly dedicated to the more complex parts. anything 4axis that can be made from bar/square stock. we have a b-axis'd machine for 5-axis then some less complex machines for less complex parts. as well as vertical, horizontal, 5 axis mills with pallet changer and your normal lathes. edm and laser. its all fun.
[18:46:35] <Duc> sounds like loads. we have a ton of 3axis mills, multi-axis lathes and a few 11 axis lathes
[19:03:26] <pink_vampire> my cnc computer die
[19:03:49] <malcom2073> Whups
[19:03:49] <pink_vampire> "thermal event"
[19:04:43] <pink_vampire> hope the machine will be ok soon
[19:06:18] <mase-tech> what are u guys producing ?
[19:08:03] <enleth> >00:59 < Duc> yea we had a guy crush a 25k rotary table not a week after shearing the spindle keys off.
[19:08:28] <enleth> how in the fuck does one *crush* a rotary table?
[19:09:07] <_methods> i had a guy crack a lathe turret on night
[19:09:19] <_methods> you'd be amazed what "operators" can pull off
[19:09:42] <enleth> cracking something, ok, I can understand
[19:09:58] <enleth> but to "crush" implies turning it a notch higher than that
[19:10:53] <CaptHindsight> rapids in Z with 10" vs 1" as input
[19:11:40] <enleth> I just had a rather small rotary table arrive today, it's maybe 40cm in diameter, had to get three other people to carry it
[19:11:42] <Valen> I'd love to see something like a kinect attached to the head, and give it the ability to stop if its going to rapid / move too fast through something
[19:11:59] <CaptHindsight> I've bought bargain lathes with the keys in the gears sheared right off
[19:12:22] <CaptHindsight> glad that the designers made the keys the weakest point
[19:12:44] <CaptHindsight> easy $1 fix and a couple hours labor
[19:12:57] <enleth> I'm pretty sure if I had my mill plunge right into that, it would just rip apart the Z transmission and maybe scratch up that table a little bit
[19:13:14] <enleth> actually it would trip the servo overload sensors, to be honest
[19:13:21] <enleth> but assuming those wouldn't react
[19:13:41] <Valen> we have fuses in the servo lines on ours ;->
[19:13:49] <Valen> blown them a few times...
[19:14:00] <Valen> mostly when tuning and getting oscilation though
[19:14:24] <CaptHindsight> the worst I've done is bent end mills
[19:14:35] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight:
[19:14:36] <zeeshan|2> http://imgur.com/a/OaqUx
[19:14:40] <zeeshan|2> all that work to tighten one bolt
[19:14:40] <CaptHindsight> forget to raise the Z enough to clear
[19:14:41] <zeeshan|2> ;]
[19:14:44] <enleth> I'm lucky to have resettable, adjustable overload switches in there
[19:14:48] <enleth> with aux contacts too
[19:15:48] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: looks good, I fab my own tools as well for diffs and transmissions
[19:15:59] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[19:16:33] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: is that a Craftsman digital torque wrench?
[19:16:48] <enleth> CaptHindsight: I started to train some other people to use my mill lately, and apart from the obvious stuff, one thing I'm most worried about is someone homing it after a power cycle with a too long tool chucked and a too tall stuff bolted to the table right in the homing path
[19:16:58] <zeeshan|2> overpriced on
[19:17:11] <CaptHindsight> now I see the logo
[19:17:41] <zeeshan|2> i used the torque then angle mode on it
[19:17:50] <zeeshan|2> it actually told me the final torque put on the fastener
[19:18:25] <zeeshan|2> 34.7ft-lb then 60 degree
[19:18:28] <zeeshan|2> works out to 158 ft-lb
[19:18:41] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: you go farther than I do, I'll weld plate to bar and then use bolts
[19:19:08] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: did you press those pins in?
[19:19:17] <zeeshan|2> ya
[19:19:21] <zeeshan|2> then tacked them just incase
[19:19:26] <zeeshan|2> its just 1/2" round bar
[19:19:29] <CaptHindsight> you could sell that tool :)
[19:19:49] <zeeshan|2> gonna throw it in the window of subaru hq -- jk
[19:19:51] <zeeshan|2> :)
[19:20:00] <CaptHindsight> yeah!
[19:20:09] <Duc> enleth: drive the Z carriage into the rotary
[19:20:38] <zeeshan|2> enleth
[19:20:43] <zeeshan|2> do you have an atc on the mill
[19:22:10] <Duc> enleth: stop mid program then jog machine around and start program mid cycle so it has no clue where it is
[19:23:28] <enleth> zeeshan|2: nope
[19:25:04] <enleth> Duc: I was more interested in the machine weight to rotary weight ratio, if the end result was the rotary getting totally ruined
[19:25:17] <zeeshan|2> maybe you could customize linuxcnc
[19:25:23] <zeeshan|2> that a certain tool has to be loaded before homing
[19:26:06] <enleth> zeeshan|2: more like post a big red warning before homing, like "CHECK YOUR FUCKING CLEARANCES BEFORE PROCEEDING"
[19:26:15] <yasnak> capt & _methods: industrial cnc machines can seriously take a beating. our mill has never needed a realignment. only thing thats ever needed to be replaced was the linear encoder. i watched a night shift girl plunge a sandvik 5" insert mill into a 12x12" block of aluminum at rapid like it was butter. just had to repalce the insert mill head as some of the seats were a bit damaged haha.
[19:26:34] <Duc> enleth: bridgeport 300GX about 11k http://www.hardinge.com/usr/pdf/milling/1371gx300510.pdf
[19:26:57] <zeeshan|2> hehe]
[19:27:21] <Duc> remember a operator is just a button pusher that is being paid 15/hr so they dont care or arent paying attention
[19:27:41] <enleth> jeez, those modern mills, all looking like very high tech port-a-potties
[19:28:18] <enleth> like, just look at this photo of three of them side by side
[19:28:23] <Duc> space is costly in a plant. we have 50 of these in a row
[19:28:32] <Duc> not including our other stuff
[19:28:44] <yasnak> exactly why I pushed so hard and finally got a m432viii citizen. cuts nearly half of our mill/lathe work down. http://www.swisstechmachinery.com/assets/M4-32.pdf
[19:29:14] <Duc> nice swiss machine yasnak
[19:29:36] <enleth> they stopped making the traditional stuff before I was born but I still prefer the way it looks
[19:31:00] <yasnak> swiss is my baby, i can read the code and write it on the fly. only use cam for complex milling otherwise I get annoyed with most post's code. i have tools pre-prepared for operators with setup sheets that have the tools in quick change holders w/preset lengths. i literally try to take any skill out of operating as possible because lets not beat around the bush...USA has a huge skilled machinist/machining problem that we can't solve overnight.
[19:31:01] <enleth> although the whole "not getting rained upon with a torrent of scalding hot chips" thing does sway it in the favor of modern machines
[19:32:39] <CaptHindsight> yasnak: you let the Chinese do it :)
[19:33:38] <CaptHindsight> and stop making complex parts, make bombs, missiles and aircraft engines easier to assemble and replace :)
[19:33:56] <Duc> nah takes to long to get feedback. month to get parts then another 2 months for corrections
[19:34:24] <enleth> yasnak: it's not just a US problem
[19:34:34] <CaptHindsight> it's all about collecting money that you'll never spend, the rest is just madness, oh and power, you need to have that as well
[19:36:12] <yasnak> capt: one sec, i got pics to show I don't let the chinese/Japanese do it :P my newest setup is a legit long parts ejector (we got docked by osha for my over-night special thru-spindle tubing into bucket special)
[19:36:25] <enleth> a friend over here is going to inherit a machining business, mostly manual stuff, and he's working like crazy to actually learn the trade because his father's health prevents him from supervising the shop floor all the time, and those guys who work here...
[19:36:29] <enleth> all dumbasses
[19:36:52] <enleth> he says there were some who knew what they're doing but they were old and died off
[19:37:26] <Duc> the businesses also dont pay well
[19:37:48] <yasnak> enleth: i know, that's exactly why we need to take advantage of this. we as people need to become more productive. you cannot beat chinese labor. you can beat them when it comes to creativity and process. thats where we need to get good again and sadly so many people seem to just come in thinking they deserve a job and don't need to better themselves as they've been doing this so-and-so way forever so why change. :/
[19:37:59] <Duc> a good machinist cost as much as a seasoned engineer
[19:38:51] <yasnak> I personally look for kids interested in machining who have programmed on computers before. The rest I can teach as long as they have the drive to learn and better themselves the sky isnt even the limit. technology is there, time/skill isn't.
[19:38:53] <Duc> cycle time counts and cost. we dont have cheap labor
[19:39:59] <enleth> and the funny thing? there are people who'd probably work in the trade if they had the chance to learn it
[19:40:10] <enleth> the question is, where would they do it
[19:40:23] <Duc> community colleges still teach it
[19:40:30] <enleth> in the US maybe
[19:40:34] <yasnak> ehhh, even then
[19:40:40] <enleth> in most of the EU, not really
[19:40:43] <yasnak> the skills these days are so far and broad
[19:41:03] <yasnak> give me a computer programmer or a younger guy who can take a print and make a part on a manual lathe
[19:41:09] <yasnak> thats all i need
[19:41:12] <enleth> especially the post-soviet countries - we dumped all that curriculum as "socialist"
[19:42:10] <enleth> now people are starting to realize it's not really a good idea to have millions of people holding useless degress and no trade
[19:42:24] <yasnak> I find it amazing how many manufacturing jobs go vacant. Its amazing because thats where I started, never went to college. Started working to pay for college and one thing led to another....12 years later I run the shop.
[19:42:30] <enleth> but the damage is done, there's a 30 year gap in the workforce
[19:42:34] <yasnak> yeah
[19:42:42] <yasnak> so how do we fix it? we need to fix it with automation.
[19:42:53] <enleth> but someone needs to program all this stuff
[19:43:02] <yasnak> Thats us
[19:43:02] <Ralith> I know someone who's interested in getting into machining but really doesn't want to get stuck doing completely rote production line labor all day long
[19:43:05] <Ralith> is this realistic?
[19:43:06] <CaptHindsight> enleth: no that was all part of the tuition scam
[19:43:43] <yasnak> but isn't it amazing? We have cnc robotic cells
[19:43:46] <CaptHindsight> get as many people to get student loans as possible since they can't get out of them, not even through bankruptcy
[19:43:46] <Ralith> and if so what might be involved in accomplishing that?
[19:43:54] <Duc> Ralith: job shops would be a good start for the person after tech school
[19:44:10] <Duc> I just paid all mine off last month wohooo
[19:44:18] <enleth> CaptHindsight: that's also a US thing I guess, higher education has always been free of charge over here, it just got overhyped, especially liberal arts and stuff like that
[19:44:28] <Ralith> Duc: is tech school mandatory? can you elaborate on what exactly it is?
[19:44:32] <yasnak> I programmed the robot to load the parts onto our CMM and output the qc calc data to excel. then another macro will send messages via email if things start to get close to tolerance.
[19:45:09] <Ralith> I mention this now because they specifically are interested in being the kind of skilled machinist I think you guys are mourning the absence of
[19:45:20] <yasnak> I really want to be able to integrate the machines so that I can send a txt back saying to swap tool out for another (that way there isn't a set limit on parts per tool). working on this part
[19:45:25] <Duc> Ralith: Just a 2 year college in the US. Not required some shops may take you on if you have the will to learn. They would start you out as cheap labor
[19:45:43] <Ralith> that seems like it might be a good fit
[19:45:45] <Valen> Ralith: I don't think anybody is going to be paying somebody to stand in front of a lathe all day anymore
[19:45:51] <Valen> well outside the US and china perhaps
[19:45:56] <CaptHindsight> yeah, CAM takes care of it, you just program the CNC machine and walk away
[19:45:59] <Ralith> (he's in a major US port city)
[19:46:01] <Valen> it'd be one off jobs
[19:46:09] <Ralith> Valen: good to know, thanks
[19:46:10] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: i wish it worked like that
[19:46:10] <zeeshan|2> ;[
[19:46:18] <yasnak> ralith, I'm skilled in a different way. the old school machinists I tried so hard to absorb all information (even if they were the biggest assholes ever, haha, but so awesome) they'd give but they're now all retiring. so its like reinventing the wheel.
[19:46:22] <Duc> cnc are only good for 20+ parts below that its cheaper for manual
[19:46:32] <yasnak> Duc not true bro
[19:46:35] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: you have an old CNC, the new stuff just about runs itself :)
[19:46:39] <zeeshan|2> haha
[19:46:43] <zeeshan|2> ive used enough new machines!
[19:46:43] <Valen> If the wage is decent it should be doing stuff that's not worth spending the time doing CAM on
[19:46:46] <yasnak> Depends on what it is but you can easily do small lots productively
[19:46:47] <zeeshan|2> setup is always a pain :P
[19:46:48] <enleth> Ralith: hard to skip the initial shit shift altogether, you need to know what the heck is this machine for to be able to program it, so you need to use it a little
[19:46:57] <zeeshan|2> "setup tools"
[19:46:57] <yasnak> ^^
[19:46:59] <zeeshan|2> "dial part"
[19:47:00] <Ralith> enleth: oh, of course
[19:47:03] <zeeshan|2> "find a fixture"
[19:47:05] <zeeshan|2> "make a fixture"
[19:47:25] <Ralith> enleth: I'm just envisioning the probably-obsolete role of the guy who's a glorified robotic arm and isn't actually learning anything or presented with any opportunity for career advancement
[19:47:32] <yasnak> the shit shift = separates the complainers and question askers vs problem solvers and do-ers. that shift needs to happen for a bare min of two years I believe.
[19:47:35] <Duc> yasnak: depends on the part but simple things can be easier with manual
[19:47:51] <zeeshan|2> Duc: i totally agree
[19:47:58] <zeeshan|2> sometimes i still use my d rill press to make holes
[19:47:59] <Ralith> so long as there's professional development going on I fully respect that you start at the bottom
[19:48:08] <zeeshan|2> by the time i'd boot up the cnc and run up warm up
[19:48:08] <yasnak> duc true, I mean anything very simple I'd make on the manual anyways. we've got this old burgmaster with the template and rotary tool changer. why not break it out? :P
[19:48:10] <zeeshan|2> i could be done :P
[19:48:10] <CaptHindsight> the new CNC's make their own fixtures, you just stack metal on one end and the parts come out shrink wrapped an QC'ed on the other
[19:48:44] * zeeshan|2 sees no reason to own a manual lathe
[19:48:45] <zeeshan|2> other than cost
[19:48:46] <Duc> I love breaking out the manual machine and Im a process engineer that shouldnt be allowed to touch machines
[19:48:58] <Valen> CnC + handwheels ;-P
[19:49:02] <zeeshan|2> Valen: exactly!
[19:49:05] <Ralith> Duc: any general thoughts on how someone might best look for such an entry-level position in a major US city?
[19:49:10] <CaptHindsight> you just can't move them since they have GPS and only work within 10ft of where they were paid for :)
[19:49:13] <zeeshan|2> shop space is limited here :[
[19:49:33] <Duc> Ralith: what kind of skill sets do you have? Under stand G-code, read calipers?
[19:49:45] <Tom_itx> everyone needs a manual lathe
[19:49:58] <Ralith> Duc: this is literally for a friend, I'm quite happy being a successful software engineer myself :P
[19:50:02] <Tom_itx> you can't go thru life without one
[19:50:06] <Tom_itx> it's da law
[19:50:11] <yasnak> duc, honestly at the higher level you need to have people skills. seriously. people skills are the hardest thing i've had to deal with
[19:50:15] <Duc> what city is he in
[19:50:20] <CaptHindsight> Ralith: around here you drive past whats left of the factories and the recruiters have signs up for what they are looking for
[19:50:28] <Ralith> Duc: planning on Seattle
[19:50:32] <Duc> yasnak: yes and understanding how people work
[19:50:47] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 does SW have a 'reuse pattern' feature?
[19:50:47] <CaptHindsight> CNC setup, machinists, welders etc
[19:50:49] <yasnak> capthindsight: this is me not relying on chinese/jap/ect lol http://imgur.com/a/7503b
[19:50:50] <enleth> fun fact: I had 10 people, all working in IT, attend an 8 hour long workshop this week to learn some milling basics, and several times that in line for the same, after I got my mill working and shown them what it does. Most of those people have long wanted to switch to something more varied than their IT jobs, but had nowhere to go to learn.
[19:51:07] <yasnak> enleth
[19:51:16] <yasnak> these people are exactly what i'd die for
[19:51:22] <Duc> Ralith: https://www.shoreline.edu/cncmachinist/ school like this
[19:51:59] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: no
[19:52:01] <yasnak> I was one of these. I wanted to go to school for computer science. still a huge computer nerd. I can honestly say the fact that I had programmed before combined with my skills on a computer has been nothing but a blessing.
[19:52:05] <enleth> yasnak: the best part: I'm still in the IT business myself
[19:52:05] <zeeshan|2> not that i know of
[19:52:09] <Ralith> he doesn't have any direct experience with machine tools but has been a customer to machine shops to support his car hobby work for plenty of time, does his own welding, etc
[19:52:12] <yasnak> Unfortunately I also get the best part of having to do our IT too
[19:52:21] <yasnak> wow
[19:52:22] <zeeshan|2> prolly cause it is likely pointles?
[19:52:25] <Ralith> Duc: thanks!
[19:52:28] <zeeshan|2> at least for me!
[19:52:28] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, it's a cool feature
[19:52:33] <enleth> like, that's what's paying my bills - and buying my machining stuff
[19:52:39] <zeeshan|2> i do my similar circlular patterns together
[19:52:41] <zeeshan|2> not seperately
[19:52:44] <Tom_itx> for pattern constraint features
[19:52:50] <zeeshan|2> mirrors/patterns are always at the end for me
[19:52:52] <yasnak> thats funny haha. once you fix one problem you're automatically the go-to guy
[19:52:54] <Tom_itx> it keeps the constraints too
[19:53:39] <Duc> yasnak: yep now days you almost need a IT degree to write the macros and g-code stuff
[19:53:51] <yasnak> haha
[19:54:04] <Duc> some get really complicated
[19:54:25] * zeeshan|2 writes macros for inventor and does not have it degree
[19:54:25] <zeeshan|2> :P
[19:54:33] <Duc> but then again I can right G-code by hand yet
[19:54:37] <Duc> cant
[19:54:43] <zeeshan|2> don't bother
[19:54:46] <Sync> ^
[19:54:48] <zeeshan|2> thats how you crash machines
[19:54:49] <yasnak> duc, its amazing too. if i had time I'd write all sorts of macros and family of parts programs. but time/energy is something I am limited in. i'd probably be so embarrassed if I randomly picked three programs and sent them to you guys haha.
[19:54:55] <zeeshan|2> you want to use a proper cam software w/ verify
[19:55:04] <yasnak> why?
[19:55:07] <yasnak> thats no fun
[19:55:17] <zeeshan|2> the main way to crash it then is forgetting a clamp was in the way
[19:55:18] <zeeshan|2> :P
[19:55:18] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, there's a guy in catia class that used inventor for quite a while
[19:55:43] <yasnak> i'd rather write my 5axis programs without any simulations and at 3:30am after an all-day/night outing :P
[19:55:52] <yasnak> it adds to the excitement
[19:55:57] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[19:56:09] <Duc> LOL launched my gantry off the plasma table after a night of drinking
[19:56:16] <yasnak> but seriously, best part about these newER citizen swiss machine? they have simulation!
[19:56:28] <enleth> Duc: that's one of the fun things about showing IT people how to program a CNC mill - they're still hazy about the mechanical side of things, but catch up on advanced control features right away
[19:56:42] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 got the subaru engine back together yet?
[19:56:49] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: yea
[19:56:52] <zeeshan|2> about to go put the flywheel on
[19:56:54] <yasnak> right? teaching it people how to write if then macros...pssshhhh. :P
[19:56:56] <zeeshan|2> had to make a couple tools in the way
[19:56:57] <zeeshan|2> :P
[19:57:25] <Duc> enleth: I understnad the electrical and mechanical side alot better
[19:58:16] <enleth> that actually makes me think - who are the people who desing and build the modern machine tools?
[19:58:59] <Duc> a large team of people
[19:59:18] <enleth> some specialists for sure, but designing a VMC must take at least one guy who's adept in all it takes to build one to coordinate the work
[19:59:26] <Tom_itx> i do that on my laptop in the evening
[20:00:25] <enleth> someone has to be the proxy between the mechanics, electrical designers, embedded programmers and high-level programmers
[20:00:38] <yasnak> enleth
[20:00:42] <Duc> project manager
[20:00:43] <zeeshan|2> enleth: they are called system engineers
[20:00:56] <yasnak> for the most part the smaller companies actually just rebrand machines
[20:01:19] <yasnak> like for instance star...they support/sell spare parts. install and such. they don't build them
[20:01:22] <enleth> yasnak: what about the likes of Haas or Seiki Mori?
[20:01:36] <yasnak> they built a control that is essentially a GUI on top of the yaskawa siemens control
[20:03:08] <yasnak> HAAS and Seiki are large enough that they can do some serious training, obviously those who learn the skills end up becoming the "proxy". but for the most part these machines are built buy totally different companies (bigger guys excluded!) and rigged for whatever purpose by the company that sells it.
[20:03:39] <Tom_itx> haas gives the school here free machines
[20:04:01] <Tom_itx> in trade for an occasional demo on them for a client is my understanding
[20:04:19] <enleth> Duc: nah, the project manager is there to make sure the work goes smoothly, but he's not going to be able to speak like an equal with a mechanical engineer on the prototyping floor one minute, the EE guy doing servo drives the next, and the programmer doing position control on some embedded chip immediately afterwards
[20:04:40] <zeeshan|2> system engineers can
[20:04:58] <Duc> enleth: some people have multiple skill sets which helps with the talks
[20:05:25] <enleth> Duc: but that's, I think, what zeeshan|2 called a system engineer, not a project manager
[20:05:34] <Duc> true
[20:06:15] <Duc> wonder if I can get a job at HAAS
[20:06:15] <yasnak> We have some Bulova mills, http://www.bulovatech.com/. these machines are just rebranded UGint machines. http://www.ugint.co.kr/
[20:06:24] <zeeshan|2> duc
[20:06:24] <zeeshan|2> work at tormach
[20:06:27] <yasnak> Pls don't. lol
[20:06:32] <zeeshan|2> tell them zeeshan|2 says they make POS
[20:06:33] <zeeshan|2> :D
[20:06:35] * zeeshan|2 hides
[20:06:39] <yasnak> Ahaha
[20:06:57] <Duc> I already have a machine better than a tormach, I would like a Haas at a discount
[20:07:06] <zeeshan|2> what do you have
[20:07:06] <yasnak> I mean they've got a purpose and there is tons of them. But when it comes to breaking down right before a deadline HAAS always has your back.
[20:07:16] <yasnak> Okuma and Mori's :P
[20:07:30] <Duc> bridgeport boss 5
[20:07:30] <zeeshan|2> i cant wait to get my nakamura lathe going
[20:07:34] <zeeshan|2> 600 ipm boys!
[20:07:38] <Duc> with yaskawa servos
[20:07:39] <zeeshan|2> 20HP!!
[20:07:46] <yasnak> What model?
[20:07:51] <yasnak> Those things looked wicked
[20:08:09] <zeeshan|2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glsEopVt3O8
[20:08:12] <zeeshan|2> tnc 3
[20:08:14] <zeeshan|2> just like that
[20:08:42] <enleth> Duc: not much of a BOSS in it anymore, is it?
[20:08:55] <zeeshan|2> Duc: that is significantly better than a tormach
[20:09:01] <Duc> enleth: The spindle motor is still the same but thats it
[20:09:02] <enleth> Duc: the iron was almost the same as Series 1 CNC I think
[20:09:03] <zeeshan|2> =D
[20:09:10] <Duc> it is a series 1 cnc originally
[20:09:15] <yasnak> What kind of chuck did it come with?
[20:09:21] <zeeshan|2> hydraulic
[20:09:28] <yasnak> Know the brand by chance?
[20:09:30] <yasnak> jw
[20:09:48] <yasnak> Ours ended up having some terribly low max RPM
[20:10:10] <zeeshan|2> you have a tnc 3??!!?
[20:10:31] <yasnak> *we only have one normal lathe, okuma space turn not a nakamura
[20:10:54] <enleth> Duc: oh, by the way, do you have a hollow spindle in it, or still using QC30?
[20:11:17] <Duc> enleth: QC30 since it was a solid spindle and I have 50 tools for it
[20:11:45] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/ZIczyMv.jpg
[20:11:56] <enleth> Duc: did you manage to find an ER40 holder that fits QC30?
[20:12:38] <yasnak> haha, okay i've got that one too
[20:12:42] <zeeshan|2> nice!
[20:12:44] <yasnak> its something around 4800
[20:13:02] <yasnak> nice chuck tho, heavy as a bitch so put a pipe in it when taking off lol
[20:13:15] <yasnak> nearly took my other knee out doing it the first time
[20:13:22] <zeeshan|2> 4200 rpm
[20:13:25] <yasnak> yeah
[20:13:32] <zeeshan|2> machine can do 6000 i think
[20:13:38] <yasnak> geared?
[20:13:47] <yasnak> i mean do you need to program the gears?
[20:13:53] <Duc> enleth: I believe so. Bison tool# N30-40ER350-B US shop tools sells it
[20:13:56] <zeeshan|2> its got a low and high gear
[20:14:16] <Duc> enleth: I have the ER32 tool which works well
[20:14:16] <yasnak> nice nice
[20:14:30] <zeeshan|2> yasnak: http://i.imgur.com/oH2zCdh.jpg
[20:14:31] <enleth> Duc: thanks. Do you have any photos of your QC30 tool drawer?
[20:14:32] <zeeshan|2> thats the trans
[20:14:32] <zeeshan|2> lol
[20:14:38] <zeeshan|2> it weighs more than my subaru engine
[20:14:43] <Duc> enleth: let me go take one
[20:14:53] <zeeshan|2> note the number of belts required
[20:15:16] <yasnak> so tis been replaced?
[20:15:23] <yasnak> you have this machine now or no?
[20:15:38] <Tom_itx> it's a paperweight right now
[20:16:01] <yasnak> lol
[20:16:08] <zeeshan|2> yasnak: it is a paper weight
[20:16:10] <zeeshan|2> sitting in my garage
[20:16:12] <zeeshan|2> needs a control
[20:16:16] <zeeshan|2> and conversion to single phase
[20:16:23] <yasnak> wtf lol
[20:16:28] <zeeshan|2> :)
[20:16:30] <yasnak> i guess for a garage setup
[20:16:33] <yasnak> but jeeeeez
[20:16:35] <Tom_itx> stop plain around with those silly car engines and get busy
[20:16:38] <yasnak> what a project, keep it update dhaha
[20:16:39] <Tom_itx> playin
[20:17:01] <zeeshan|2> soon tom :P
[20:17:13] <zeeshan|2> i need a reliable car first
[20:17:14] <zeeshan|2> :P
[20:17:22] <zeeshan|2> then i need the ability to move the garage queen outside
[20:17:23] <zeeshan|2> then the lathe :)
[20:17:24] <Tom_itx> i wonder who will be done first. you with the lathe or pete with his tool changer
[20:17:40] <Duc> enleth: http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd465/shefron/Machinery/Boss5%20servo/20160410_194943_zpsbunqmg6b.jpg http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd465/shefron/Machinery/Boss5%20servo/20160410_194933_zps8krkrkhf.jpg
[20:17:58] <Duc> enleth: a new rotary table http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd465/shefron/Machinery/Boss5%20servo/20160313_114108_zpswnvyovfb.jpg
[20:18:10] <Tom_itx> speak of the devil
[20:18:16] <malcom2073> Heyyyy it's Pete
[20:18:21] <malcom2073> How's Florida treating you?
[20:18:38] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: keep it up and ill machine your mill on the lathe!
[20:18:38] <zeeshan|2> :P
[20:18:43] <yasnak> Haha, where is pete in florida? :P <~ sarasota here
[20:19:00] <yasnak> And I'll answer for him...it was an amazingly nice day
[20:19:22] <BeachBumPete> It was INDEED an amazingly nice day actually ;)
[20:19:28] <zeeshan|2> Duc: you have a shit load of tools
[20:19:33] <malcom2073> Bah
[20:19:44] <BeachBumPete> we went fishing this evening and got some carvel ice cream after :D
[20:19:48] <enleth> Duc: taking it off and back on must be a bitch
[20:20:03] <zeeshan|2> Duc: what rotary table is that?
[20:20:06] <zeeshan|2> how much was it?
[20:20:21] <Duc> enleth: cherry picker I actually have technical questions about switching setups when Im not using it
[20:20:44] <Duc> Tsudakoma rotary table that I got for 1200 on ebay
[20:20:49] <zeeshan|2> wow!
[20:20:57] <zeeshan|2> is it direct drive?
[20:21:13] <Duc> no Yaskawa AC servo drive with gear reducation
[20:21:22] <zeeshan|2> what does it do for backlash
[20:21:30] <zeeshan|2> can you give me a model number
[20:21:32] <yasnak> beachbumpete: amazing day really haha https://youtu.be/Ilzntrag6wo
[20:21:34] <zeeshan|2> ive been looking for a rotary table
[20:21:40] <zeeshan|2> the ones i see are lall 5000+
[20:22:18] <Duc> low ball the shit out of them I got one down to 1400 from 5000
[20:22:23] <zeeshan|2> wow
[20:22:26] <BeachBumPete> yasnak NICE man this was my day yesterday... http://imgur.com/a/U7htE
[20:22:27] <Duc> one sec I will upload the pics
[20:22:42] <yasnak> where you at? northern florida?
[20:23:00] <enleth> Duc: as for tools - there's one interesting example in your drawer, the one by the left edge with a pretty big slitting saw inserted - it's got a reduced diameter shoulder to accomodate the QC30 locking ears. did you get it like that or modify it?
[20:23:03] <BeachBumPete> I am right now in Lake worth Florida but we are house hunting on the treasure coast
[20:23:30] <yasnak> ahh very nice. awesome area out that way
[20:23:47] <BeachBumPete> are you in Sarasota?
[20:24:13] <Duc> http://www.ebay.com/itm/151881166863?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
[20:24:26] <Duc> RNCV-201RB
[20:24:27] <yasnak> siesta key actually, well working on a shortsale there. job opened a facility down here and moved me with it. so yeah, sarasota is where the shop is. just off 75.
[20:24:57] <enleth> Duc: it's pretty damn hard to get QC30-ready holders where I live, right now I make do with chinese shit that just happens to have the proper flange thickness and just needs to be ground/turned down a bit to fit in the nut's mouth, but for bigger stuff I'm probably forced to do some extensive modding to holders I can buy
[20:25:18] <Duc> enleth: 3/4 solid collar tool with set screw for weldon shank original erickson tool
[20:25:22] <BeachBumPete> a short sale of a home?
[20:25:37] <enleth> Duc: you're lucky to have it
[20:25:57] <Duc> enleth: ebay has them but I got 99% of the tools with the mill
[20:26:36] <yasnak> yeah, took me awhile to find a place. trying for a short sale on the canal as my money isn't exactly overflowing. it will be my first house. if it falls through i'll just get a fixer upper and trade up haha
[20:26:39] <enleth> the guy I got the mill from *almost* got all the tooling when he bought it, but someone snatched it before he got there
[20:26:49] <Duc> arent you in germany?
[20:27:25] <BeachBumPete> I hear ya things have gotten a bit pricier here too. we have looked at a few homes but nothing has really caught our eye yet..
[20:27:26] <enleth> the worst part? he'd have sold me the machine with all the tooling for the same price if he got it, he's not dealing in metalworking machines at all and wouldn't know the actual value of the stuff
[20:27:42] <enleth> Duc: me? Poland
[20:27:54] <Duc> enleth: thought Bison was in poland?
[20:27:58] <yasnak> yeah. you need to just always be ready to buy. the good houses are out there at decent price but go so fast. housing is getting expensive again.
[20:28:15] <yasnak> im new down here so it took me awhile to find where to even look let alone what to look for haha
[20:28:17] <BeachBumPete> yeah we are ready to pounce man ;)
[20:28:36] <enleth> Duc: they are, and they indeed do have some QC30-compatible holders in their catalogue, but I've never seen them being sold online, no idea how much they cost
[20:28:37] <BeachBumPete> I actually grew up in Palm Beach county
[20:28:44] <enleth> Duc: for all I know, they might not even stock them
[20:28:48] <BeachBumPete> what kind of shop do you have?
[20:29:16] <yasnak> we're a one stop shop, two facilities for development and production of medical devices
[20:29:27] <BeachBumPete> wow nice
[20:29:34] <Duc> enleth: according to us shop tools its alround $100 us dollars
[20:29:44] <yasnak> one in wisconsin and the new one down here. was told we'd have better luck finding skilled labor :P
[20:29:55] <BeachBumPete> I am going to most likely be in the Port St. Lucie area directly east of you...
[20:30:09] <enleth> Duc: duh, I just realized you gave me a Bison part number earlier
[20:30:35] <Duc> enleth: LOL it happens
[20:31:10] <yasnak> very nice
[20:32:05] <BeachBumPete> I gotta get my Fish on here man all of the tricks I used to use when I lived here 15 years ago so far ain't workin' LOL
[20:32:14] <yasnak> My ex-girlfriend moved down to melbourne, every once and awhile I make a little trip haha. always fun to take the back roads through the state lol
[20:32:52] <Duc> enleth: which bridgeport did you get
[20:32:54] <BeachBumPete> well if you ever come this way again gimme a shout here and I will meet ya for a drink or something and we can chat CNC schtuff... :D
[20:32:57] <enleth> Duc: I just found the US Shop Tools catalog and there's no clear indication of QC30 compatiblity for their holders - so it's still a little bit of hit-and-miss
[20:33:06] <yasnak> haha for sure
[20:33:23] <Duc> enleth: I bought the ER32 bison tool for nmtb 30
[20:33:29] <yasnak> ever over here I'll take you fishing, not much from the dock tho. i've been doing deep sea and thats some fun stuff
[20:33:38] <BeachBumPete> I want to take my kids to the cape to watch a launch once we find our home and get settled in...
[20:33:39] <yasnak> by deep sea i mean 100ft or less haha
[20:34:02] <enleth> Duc: Series 1 MDI, that's identical iron as Series 1 CNC but with DC servos, a Heidenhain control and factory-fitted handwheels
[20:34:25] <BeachBumPete> yasknak I definitely will man We are planning a trip with our Fishing Kayaks over to Crystal river at some point...
[20:34:41] <enleth> Duc: caveat: only one servo drive, and the control can only do point-to-point with straight cut
[20:34:50] <BeachBumPete> I want to take a day or three out on the Gulf in the yak as well...
[20:34:59] <Duc> enleth: much cheaper to convert I would rip that shit off quickly for full 3 axis
[20:35:04] <enleth> Duc: but it's much easier to retrofit it for 3 axis milling than to modify the iron
[20:35:21] <yasnak> Isn't there some spot over there thats like the number one shark attack location? :P
[20:35:28] <enleth> Duc: honestly, the Heidenhain is *very* nice to use and I'd like to keep it
[20:35:29] <yasnak> my memory isn't all that good sometimes haha
[20:35:46] <Duc> enleth: there maybe a upgrade code to allow 3 axis
[20:36:02] <BeachBumPete> honestly there were several attacks on your side last year unfortunately ;)
[20:36:05] <enleth> Duc: I'm pretty sure it's often going to be easier and faster to skip booting the linuxcnc PC and just fire up the TNC to do something simple
[20:36:20] <enleth> Duc: and it's a pretty nice DRO too
[20:36:41] <yasnak> sigh, why you gotta do that ;)
[20:36:49] <enleth> Duc: mind you, I'm keeping the handwheels and this mill will see a lot of manual machining
[20:36:50] <yasnak> anyways nice meeting ya
[20:37:06] <Duc> enleth: linuxcnc should still work with the handwheels I think
[20:37:06] <BeachBumPete> hehe I am looking for a bongo board as the surf here is small but nice...
[20:37:36] <yasnak> wait till hurricane season :P
[20:37:42] <enleth> Duc: should, but unless I will be bothered to hook up the TNC panel and emulate it, the whole thing stays
[20:37:56] <yasnak> honestly i haven't seen a hurricane yet, so these hurricane parties are something I really want to experience this year
[20:38:16] <enleth> Duc: the single-command MDI mode with physical buttons is just much faster and more comfortable than linuxcnc's MDI stuff
[20:38:29] <BeachBumPete> I grew up here as I said and watched many come and go but never got more than a rough thunderstorm really..
[20:38:56] <Duc> enleth: a manual mill might be a good purchase sounds like a big issue to emulate
[20:39:19] <yasnak> haha, if we ever end up having one I'll be here in sarasota sandbagging the docking bay doors
[20:39:27] <enleth> Duc: no space for another machine, really
[20:39:59] <Duc> enleth: full conversion would probably be best. computer only takes 45 seconds
[20:40:17] <enleth> Duc: as for 3 axis milling on the TNC - it may be able to do diagonals *if* my unit is capable of doing 3 analog outputs instead of one, but certainly not arcs
[20:40:56] <enleth> Duc: maybe. In this case I'll reuse the panel, DRO displays and buttons for sure
[20:40:58] <Duc> enleth: will limit usage alot
[20:41:38] <Duc> enleth: have you seen the huge monitor and panel setup I use
[20:41:42] <enleth> Duc: the way I see it now - I'll try to hook up Mesa 7i77 in parallel with the I/O board of the TNC and interlock them
[20:41:57] <BeachBumPete> I hear ya man...
[20:42:17] <enleth> Duc: nope
[20:43:53] <Duc> enleth: thread https://forum.linuxcnc.org/forum/12-milling/29997-bridgeport-boss5-stepper-to-servo
[20:43:53] <enleth> Duc: so far I've been working on getting the mill operational as is anyway, and I'm almost there, it's already capable of doing small paid jobs, so I'm just using the TNC and I've gotten to like it
[20:44:36] <enleth> Duc: and before the linuxcnc conversion, keeping TNC or not, I have to upgrade to modern servo drives anyway
[20:45:17] <Duc> the yaskawa sigma5 drives were easy to work with
[20:46:09] <enleth> Duc: I've got a Bosch Z15-1A in there now, it's a piece of 70s shit, completely screwed, the way it's supplied with power is one of the most fucked up electrical systems I've ever seen
[20:47:02] <enleth> Duc: heh, you actually got a teletype with the mill?
[20:47:20] <Duc> enleth: yes and a box of new punch tape reels
[20:48:45] <enleth> Duc: the wiring in the cabinet is totally different from MDI's
[20:49:04] <Duc> enleth: probably older its from the late 70's
[20:49:13] <enleth> looks like MDI and CNC versions were based on the same iron but the electrical part was designed by completely different people
[20:49:21] <Duc> probably
[20:49:52] <enleth> MDI's electricals are much neater
[20:50:09] <enleth> just one box on the side, well laid out
[20:50:15] <Duc> weird they limited the axis movement. Probably has a way to get money
[20:50:55] <enleth> no idea, but of all things this mill might have lacked, this is the easiest to fix
[20:51:30] <enleth> and as far as I know, it's the only Bridgeport ever built with both servos and handwheels
[20:51:45] <enleth> at least on the CNC rigid ram iron
[20:52:31] <enleth> seeing that I bought it as a training and prototyping machine, I couldn't have gotten a better deal
[20:54:08] <enleth> Duc: usually a "hybrid" mill will suck hopelessly at either manual or CNC machining for some reason
[20:54:37] <enleth> this one has a chance of doing both well when I fit modern servo drives
[20:55:53] <Duc> maybe but you still cant feel the feedback like a manual machine
[20:56:28] <enleth> Duc: those are actual mechanical handwheels, not MPGs disguised as such
[20:56:40] <enleth> Duc: so I can and I do
[20:56:51] <Duc> ah wonder how the cnc will disconnect the feedback from the system.
[20:57:18] <enleth> Duc: they are just equipped with a nifty mechanism to engage them at will
[20:57:56] <enleth> Duc: so when you engage any of the handwheels, the servo drive is inhibited
[20:58:43] <enleth> Duc: for CNC work, all three need to be disengaged
[20:59:19] <Duc> how do you stop the ballscrews from moving with no motor holding them
[20:59:27] <enleth> brakes
[20:59:33] <enleth> there's one on every axis
[20:59:47] <Duc> ah
[20:59:58] <enleth> they're opened automatically on a particular axis when you engage a handwheel
[21:00:54] <Duc> I usually use the mpg for manual machining LOL
[21:01:12] <enleth> the only thing they screwed up is that you can't really lock the axis quickly - you have to pull the handwheel out to have the machine detect it and close the brake
[21:01:36] <enleth> but it's quite easy to turn it a little when pulling it out, moving the axis
[21:02:38] <enleth> but that's easy enough to fix by adding an easy to reach switch by each handwheel, to force the brake closed
[21:03:03] <enleth> it will work just like clamping levers on a manual mill
[21:03:07] <Duc> wonder if you could tie a encoder to each handwheel to correct the position feedback in lcnc
[21:03:23] <enleth> why would I?
[21:03:35] <enleth> they're coupled with the whole axis drive
[21:03:42] <Duc> if you did have to convert it
[21:03:55] <enleth> the encoders are mounted on servos
[21:04:00] <enleth> and they *always* turn
[21:04:06] <Duc> ah so just have the drive disabled
[21:04:09] <Duc> makes more sense now
[21:04:18] <enleth> engaging the handwheel does not disengage a servo, just inhibits the drive
[21:04:31] <enleth> and for a good reason too
[21:04:50] <enleth> I had one of the handwheel detection switches misaligned when reassembling the mill
[21:05:12] <Duc> servo fought you some
[21:05:14] <enleth> almost broke some fingers
[21:05:52] <Duc> now that is dangerous maybe dual switches in order
[21:06:59] <enleth> nah, they're actually more likely to fail open when assembled properly, I was just really off with the alignment
[21:08:03] <Duc> what do you have left on the system to fix
[21:08:08] <enleth> also, that was Z, with the handwheel directly in line with the servo, so it started turning at some insane speed
[21:09:18] <enleth> some mechanical tuning - tightening the gibs really good, tramming the head and so on, couldn't be bothered to get all that completely straigt before
[21:09:32] <enleth> doing *something* with VariSpeed, it's extremely worn out
[21:10:12] <enleth> I'd love to fix it for the vintage factor but the more I think about it, the more I'm inclined to just get a pair of taperlock pulleys and a toothed belt
[21:10:13] <Duc> dont get rid of it but rebuild it
[21:10:33] <Duc> you lose alot of torque ripping it out
[21:10:36] <enleth> I mean, it's nice, but it will limit the max RPMs permanently
[21:10:50] <enleth> without it, this mill will happily go up to 8k or so
[21:11:09] <enleth> some run bridgeport spindles even faster with no ill effects
[21:11:24] <Duc> 4k is loud on mine
[21:11:59] <enleth> someone here noted that it's the backgear you should use to get more torque
[21:12:08] <enleth> they might have been correct
[21:12:14] <enleth> I'm not really sure
[21:12:50] <Duc> can image the sound at 8k
[21:12:57] <Duc> cant
[21:13:27] <enleth> what I know is that I need to do something because the motor shaft visibly wobbles and the pulley havles are out of round, out of taper and out of fucking anything they might have been
[21:13:45] <enleth> *halves
[21:14:07] <enleth> but rebuilding it would cost me up to $1500 which is more than I got this machine for
[21:14:29] <Duc> my thread shows converting to single pulley
[21:14:38] <enleth> while replacing all that with a toothed belt is about $150 or so
[21:14:56] <enleth> what I'd be happy to do is keeping all the parts
[21:15:05] <enleth> I'm not going to throw them away
[21:15:49] <Duc> looks like it time for a shower with wife
[21:15:55] <Duc> have a goodnight
[21:16:03] <Duc> Ill be on tomorrow
[21:16:06] <enleth> but I don't feel like using them if the whole mill visibly vibrates on most speeds and I have to carefully tune it to work sort of OK
[22:09:20] <zeeshan|2> duc
[22:09:21] <zeeshan|2> thanks
[22:09:39] <Duc> not a problem
[22:10:09] <Duc> zeeshan|2: what size are you looking for
[22:10:22] <zeeshan|2> duc you saw my machine right?
[22:10:31] <zeeshan|2> it doesnt have a long table like the bridgeport
[22:10:35] <zeeshan|2> but it does have a horizontal spindle
[22:10:47] <zeeshan|2> i was thinking of mounting a very low profile rotary table onto the table
[22:10:53] <zeeshan|2> (C axis)
[22:10:59] <zeeshan|2> and operating the mill in horizontal mode
[22:11:01] <Duc> yea I remember the deckel
[22:11:10] <zeeshan|2> the table can be at most 5" thick
[22:11:11] <Duc> you can build a fixture table to extend the table
[22:11:26] <zeeshan|2> for me i want to operate the rotary table in tomb stone style
[22:12:08] <Duc> I think I know which ebay one you want
[22:12:21] <zeeshan|2> link link link
[22:13:23] <Duc> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tsudakoma-RN-150-R-2-Dual-Head-Rotary-Indexer-Table-/361445680607?hash=item5427d765df:g:BwkAAOSwp5JWZuLt
[22:13:45] <Duc> remove one of them
[22:13:52] <Duc> or something like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/TSUDAKOMA-CNC-/141488662425?hash=item20f161a799:g:izQAAOSw0vBUeP-G
[22:14:15] <zeeshan|2> that second one
[22:14:16] <zeeshan|2> damn :D
[22:14:59] <Duc> about 12inch tall about
[22:15:26] <zeeshan|2> yours came with the servo right?
[22:15:53] <Duc> yes
[22:16:30] <Duc> thats whats under the cover but it could be a DC servo or AC under the cover
[22:16:57] <zeeshan|2> ah
[22:19:15] <Duc> hard to say I lucked out with a yaskawa AC servo
[22:19:26] <zeeshan|2> dc/acdoesnt matter to me
[22:19:29] <zeeshan|2> both last a long time :P
[22:19:57] <Duc> yes I dont think you will find a stepper under there
[22:20:04] <zeeshan|2> i hope not
[22:20:10] <zeeshan|2> i'd chuck that crap across to tormach
[22:20:13] <zeeshan|2> they might find it useful
[22:20:14] <zeeshan|2> or malcom2073
[22:20:15] <zeeshan|2> :P
[22:20:23] * zeeshan|2 hides!
[22:20:58] <Duc> lol
[22:21:34] <Duc> ok its bed time for me
[22:21:40] <zeeshan|2> cya