#linuxcnc | Logs for 2016-04-08

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[00:11:23] <pink_vampire> omg http://9gag.com/gag/aX9dZdg
[00:12:04] <Encapsulation> OUCH
[00:16:34] <toastydeath> sigh, i'm considering doing mobile development for a project
[00:16:56] <toastydeath> this looks insane
[00:25:23] <pink_vampire> http://9gag.com/gag/ajAdQBg
[00:34:47] <Encapsulation> gn
[00:51:32] <pink_vampire> gn
[01:08:09] <evil_ren> heh @ puddle cooling a taig
[01:08:44] <evil_ren> its like feeding a 2 year old, bottle in one hand, paper towel in the other, shit gettin all over your shirt
[02:19:38] <Deejay> moin
[02:39:40] <pink_vampire> hi Deejay
[03:11:33] <evil_ren> omg ball mill cycle done
[03:12:08] <evil_ren> can see the paths, cant feel the paths, w00t
[03:13:48] <pink_vampire> pic?
[03:14:10] <archivist> or it didnt happen
[03:15:05] <pink_vampire> archivist: <3
[03:15:46] <evil_ren> google drive going slooo
[03:16:07] <pink_vampire> imgur
[03:16:27] <evil_ren> ya but im not putting the app on my phone
[03:16:31] <evil_ren> shits retarded
[03:16:50] <pink_vampire> computer...
[03:17:29] <evil_ren> yes pink_vampire computer
[03:17:54] <pink_vampire> ?
[03:17:59] <evil_ren> ?
[03:18:25] <pink_vampire> you don't need an app to use imgur from the computer.
[03:18:51] <evil_ren> you are like my friend who just says random vocabulary related to the subject at hand
[03:19:15] <evil_ren> http://i.imgur.com/5WVpraT.jpg
[03:19:47] <pink_vampire> no nails :(
[03:20:04] <evil_ren> ya those things are kinda nasty =\
[03:20:23] <pink_vampire> but I like the paper towel.
[03:20:30] <pink_vampire> pic!
[03:20:48] <evil_ren> i meant yours, pls no pic
[03:22:34] <pink_vampire> some people like them some don't.
[04:13:44] <codepython777> anyone here?
[04:14:04] <codepython777> is there a place where i can paste a step file and someone here to look at it? :)
[05:16:22] <nos> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rq7KKw-IqlY
[05:34:17] <jthornton> morning
[05:46:23] <miss0r> mornin'
[05:58:54] <XXCoder> hey miss0r
[05:59:04] <XXCoder> I replaced my car o2 sensor
[05:59:11] <XXCoder> it definitely improved
[05:59:21] <miss0r> I'm glad to hear :)
[05:59:22] <XXCoder> still minor idle issues, think thats from vacuum system
[05:59:45] <XXCoder> p0135 always come up, think fuse is broken too
[05:59:56] <XXCoder> have to look for it tomorrow lol
[05:59:57] <miss0r> Are you thinking the system is not completely air tight?
[06:00:10] <XXCoder> maybe, its bit hard to tell lol
[06:00:29] <miss0r> vacuums a bitch
[06:00:53] <XXCoder> yeah I once replaced all vacuum tubes in car before I got van
[06:01:00] <XXCoder> that fixed issues so hard.,
[06:01:01] <miss0r> i'm having some hearaches of my own here. This post processor won't write it self, apparently
[06:01:47] <miss0r> You should do that then. or atleast go through them and look for visible cracks
[06:02:05] <XXCoder> one of tubes is very nast7
[06:02:21] <XXCoder> its so nasty I could not complete nasty word ;)
[06:02:36] <XXCoder> anyway its behind the engine, near top, near EGR
[06:02:43] <miss0r> I thought you were trying to bring back l33t... al thou iirc 7 was T ;)
[06:02:45] <XXCoder> its common failure point apparently
[06:02:56] <XXCoder> nastt indeed lol
[06:04:56] <miss0r> That should be an easy fix then?
[06:05:10] <XXCoder> most tubes I think is very accessable
[06:05:12] <XXCoder> one isnt
[06:05:18] <XXCoder> the "nastt" one
[06:06:14] <XXCoder> the easily accessable ones seem to be in good condition. (older car everything was brittle and broke as I removed em)
[06:06:27] <archivist> sometimes you just have to take things to bits to fix
[06:06:34] <XXCoder> it was damned good luck that I managed to take pictures before I removed too much
[06:06:48] <miss0r> hehehe yeah
[06:07:35] <archivist> with some practice you dont need pictures that much
[06:07:50] <XXCoder> sure, good to have backups though
[06:08:28] <miss0r> I am soon to be fucked here. I just recieved an order for a support bar for a motorcycle, and my mill isn't up and running yet.... this post is driviing me mad
[06:08:45] <archivist> fun is customer getting stuck and bringing a kit in, can you put this back together?...
[06:09:09] <archivist> miss0r, write the code by hand
[06:09:22] <miss0r> archivist, I might need to soon enough
[06:09:35] <miss0r> but It would just be sweet to get this thing going
[06:11:28] <miss0r> Theres just too much unsupported/jitter in these posts, I need to sort out. I wish I could only find a simple 3-axis post with only the basics. I am realy only going to be using the controller for reading baisc G-code.. not all the canned cycles/other strange build-in stuff. just arcs and linear stuff.
[06:11:49] <miss0r> I have been looking for a VERY basic mastercam post to edit, but i've had no luck thus far
[06:12:02] <XXCoder> can always use dxf to gcode
[06:12:10] <XXCoder> then hand edit around it probably
[06:12:42] <miss0r> I guess - but I haven't ever realy found a good converter, that can do helix and ramps and stuff :)
[06:13:49] <miss0r> also, I do my CADs in mastercam, so it would be realy helpful for it to simply stop messing about and start working the way I want.
[06:14:11] <XXCoder> too bad that mastercam is so expensive
[06:14:36] <XXCoder> theres student ones but dunno if will go school just to grab a copy lol
[06:14:52] <miss0r> that and the price my local dealer is charging for writing me a post... something like 1000USD + 1500USD/day for onsight ajustment
[06:15:33] <XXCoder> whoa
[06:15:34] <archivist> they probably already have something, huge profits being made
[06:15:37] <XXCoder> that is expensive
[06:15:57] <miss0r> That is what i'm thinking. This can't possibly be the first philips 432 they've written a post for!
[06:16:04] <archivist> there is a lot of overpricing in this world
[06:16:10] <XXCoder> probably cheaper to work with fusion or even buy mastercam itself
[06:16:21] <XXCoder> archivist: and rents is flying so hard. :(
[06:16:43] <XXCoder> I'm single, work fulltime with pretty decent wages, and I cant afford apartment.
[06:17:07] <miss0r> i've actualy downloaded a free post processor edgecam, that presumable is written for my machine
[06:17:31] <XXCoder> yet another cam
[06:17:32] <miss0r> as I don't know jack sh.. about edgecam - i've never used it - and it also costs a fair amount, that is a no-go also
[06:17:43] <XXCoder> there is always freecad
[06:17:49] <XXCoder> though its cam sucks
[06:17:52] <XXCoder> UI wise anyway
[06:18:31] <miss0r> freecad... free...
[06:18:34] * miss0r shudders
[06:18:41] <XXCoder> I love its cad functions
[06:18:45] <XXCoder> but cam just sucks
[06:18:52] <XXCoder> I could not make it work.
[06:19:04] <miss0r> The cam is was is what is causing issues here :)
[06:19:06] <XXCoder> be sure to get later version than 13, 13 sucks
[06:19:27] <XXCoder> indeed that is why I pointed out that cam suckjs
[06:19:42] <miss0r> I will need to write a post processor for that as well. and atleast with mastercam I have 'some' concept of what I am doing
[06:20:20] <miss0r> some - as in: not at all enough for anything, but more than null
[06:21:44] <XXCoder> dunno how good mastercam is lol but then its danged everywhere
[06:22:12] <XXCoder> I only used it to export gcode when I worked at internship so I dont know much behind that
[06:22:57] <miss0r> nor do I - but I can very easily create a workpeice, create tooling and export g-code - basically what I need.
[06:25:53] <XXCoder> cool
[06:26:46] <miss0r> it used to work wonders for my linuxcnc controller. but that is now, sadly, retired. and I am left with this '86 era controller that I need working soon
[06:27:31] <XXCoder> sucks :(
[06:35:43] <XXCoder> http://grogcomics.com/the-cheap-bar/
[06:35:47] <XXCoder> so dang funny
[06:36:23] <XXCoder> archivist: check it out
[06:44:08] <elhe> :-)
[06:44:13] <elhe> nice one
[06:46:55] <XXCoder> old joke but in comic elhe http://grogcomics.com/the-cursed-genie/
[06:47:52] <XXCoder> I would use "painlessly, safely, and properly remove one of my lungs"
[06:49:54] <miss0r> hahaha http://grogcomics.com/ever-say-something-you-dont-mean/
[06:50:05] <miss0r> This is a waste of my time, damn you!
[06:50:18] <XXCoder> sorry heh
[06:55:05] <XXCoder> pretty old joke too http://grogcomics.com/the-big-bet/
[07:01:18] <XXCoder> elhe: my favorite grog comic http://grogcomics.com/im-busy-right-now/
[07:05:32] <elhe> XXCoder: last one was very good
[07:05:48] <XXCoder> yeah that guy usually uses old stale jokes
[07:09:06] <codepython777> I've a small 1" x 1" x 1" part - I asked a cnc shop here to cut it - they asked me $100 per piece. A similar piece sells online for $8 a pair. How do they do it so cheap? They do say they use CNC to do this.
[07:09:38] <XXCoder> mass industry is quite dofferemt
[07:09:41] <XXCoder> different
[07:10:38] <codepython777> XXCoder: this is not produced in mass for sure
[07:10:44] <codepython777> Probably a 100 copies every month or 200
[07:11:01] <codepython777> I could show you the step file - if you wanted to see
[07:11:46] <malcom2073> codepython777: So they might buy three years at once
[07:12:03] <archivist> codepython777, you are forgetting any setup charge of a machine
[07:12:05] <XXCoder> yeah larger production is cheaper
[07:12:07] <malcom2073> Or, they might get it from a much cheaper cnc shop
[07:12:43] <XXCoder> theres one job at shop I work at that has job only run 2 times each, but 1,500 parts a time
[07:12:46] <malcom2073> Typically two pieces will be trivially more expensive than one if setup time is minimal
[07:13:01] <XXCoder> those parts has so many steps. so many.
[07:13:14] <archivist> find tools, bolt on a vice, cart some bar to chunks, mount, mess about doing some gcode/cam etc
[07:13:20] <witnit> oh i came in late, did he post a link of the part?
[07:13:43] <archivist> not yet
[07:13:48] <malcom2073> Nope, only that china makes them for $8 each, and a local shop charghes $100 for a one-off :P
[07:14:01] <witnit> quantity?
[07:14:27] <archivist> dunno
[07:14:40] <witnit> well shucks, guess I didnt miss much
[07:14:44] <malcom2073> Nope
[07:14:47] <witnit> I like quoting jobs :)
[07:14:53] <witnit> especially production work
[07:15:26] <codepython777> witnit: where can i post?
[07:15:35] <witnit> what kind of file is it?
[07:15:36] <_methods> dropbox?
[07:15:44] <archivist> I hate dropbox
[07:15:46] <XXCoder> codepython777: if text can always use dpaste.com
[07:15:46] <codepython777> stp
[07:15:47] <_methods> google drive
[07:16:09] <malcom2073> codepython777: Also, if you've only asked one shop, ask 2-3. Possibly they don't *want* to do it, so they quoted you high, but $100 seems cheap for a single part
[07:16:21] <witnit> http://www.tinyupload.com/
[07:16:24] <witnit> works
[07:16:44] <_methods> is the part hardened, coated, painted?
[07:16:48] <_methods> or just raw metal?
[07:16:55] <archivist> or plastic
[07:16:57] <_methods> tight tolerances?
[07:17:07] <_methods> hard to tell without more information
[07:17:10] <codepython777> its uploading at dpaste
[07:17:14] <witnit> hes uploading now
[07:17:25] <_methods> what metal?
[07:17:29] <codepython777> _methods: just raw metal
[07:17:35] <malcom2073> Lol
[07:17:37] <malcom2073> What *kind* of metal
[07:17:39] <malcom2073> gold?
[07:17:43] <codepython777> there is a screw tap - very simple part - alum
[07:17:50] <codepython777> http://dpaste.com/0QSE3F2
[07:18:03] <_methods> $100/pc seems very high for an alum part with 1 tapped hole
[07:18:05] <codepython777> fire up your 3d modelers please :)
[07:18:21] <codepython777> oh this one has 3 taps, the one i pasted
[07:18:50] <_methods> is that stp file?
[07:19:27] <codepython777> yes
[07:19:30] <_methods> ah simple for an expensive machine
[07:19:31] <archivist> I dont have 3d on this pc :)
[07:19:33] <_methods> that's your problem
[07:19:45] <_methods> that part needs to go to a shop with a lathe with live tooling
[07:19:48] <_methods> then it will be cheap
[07:19:50] <malcom2073> Heh yeah
[07:20:02] <codepython777> does anyone have one of those here? witnit?
[07:20:02] <malcom2073> That part is the kind of part you watch youtuve videos of :-D
[07:20:20] <malcom2073> live tooling and multi-axis milling attachments
[07:20:27] <_methods> you just need to take it to the right shop
[07:20:42] <_methods> make sure you search for shops that have lathes with live tooling
[07:20:44] <archivist> rob_h, has that sort of machine
[07:21:07] <codepython777> which country is he in?
[07:21:26] <codepython777> even if its an easy job for an expensive machine - $9/pair? How does that work?
[07:21:52] <XXCoder> $100 probably because they have to subcontract if they dont have that expensive machine
[07:21:53] <archivist> a plain image
[07:21:56] <malcom2073> An expensive machine can pop thouse out a couple per minute
[07:21:59] <_methods> yeah
[07:21:59] <malcom2073> so in qty 1000, cheaper
[07:22:13] <codepython777> malcom2073: these machines can tap automatically as well?
[07:22:17] <malcom2073> codepython777: Yeah
[07:22:24] <codepython777> i see
[07:22:30] <malcom2073> And do both sides with back tooling
[07:22:40] <archivist> a 5 axis with auto toolchanger as well
[07:22:48] <_methods> 5 axis is overkill for that
[07:22:58] <_methods> any c or y axis lathe will do that part easily
[07:22:59] <codepython777> how much do these cost? 100k or 1M or can you buy it < 100k?
[07:23:03] <archivist> I cant see it yet
[07:23:08] <XXCoder> 5! axis is way too much axis for any job ;)
[07:23:17] <malcom2073> except turbines
[07:23:19] <malcom2073> and metal helmets
[07:23:20] <malcom2073> :P
[07:23:21] <archivist> XXCoder, wrong :)
[07:23:28] <_methods> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpgckgrwBGE
[07:23:30] <archivist> and bevel gears
[07:23:35] <_methods> live tooling lathe in action
[07:23:48] <XXCoder> archivist: 5! = 120 axis ;)
[07:23:53] <_methods> not the most exciting demo
[07:24:41] <_methods> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObChOoHuqPY
[07:24:48] <_methods> horrible video
[07:24:49] <codepython777> that machine is impressive
[07:24:57] <_methods> but show s more capabilities
[07:25:10] <_methods> shows cross drilling and stuff
[07:25:12] <XXCoder> prevous video has too much "camera on springs"
[07:25:46] <_methods> there are much better demos out there on youtube
[07:26:04] <_methods> i just grabbed a couple so he could see the type of machine this part should be made on
[07:26:12] <XXCoder> yea
[07:26:25] <codepython777> k - how do i get my job done cheaply? I need 25 of those :)
[07:26:31] <XXCoder> latter is nice video, too bad about low quality (uploaded in 2009)
[07:26:32] <rob_h> i have what?
[07:26:36] <_methods> 25........
[07:26:43] <_methods> buy them from where you get the for $8
[07:26:43] <XXCoder> rob_h: the magic
[07:26:48] <rob_h> aaah
[07:26:53] <rob_h> its ok untill i let the smoke out
[07:27:01] <XXCoder> yep heh
[07:27:12] <_methods> i think archivist was saying you have a 5 axis lathe
[07:27:12] <XXCoder> no, your lathe of some kind
[07:27:19] <codepython777> rob_h: according to archivist , you have a machine that can cnc this part easily: http://dpaste.com/0QSE3F2
[07:27:24] <XXCoder> that can make that part that guy wants
[07:28:14] <codepython777> _methods: of course i need that part - redesigned - the complexity is the same
[07:28:25] <codepython777> _methods: or else i would buy it
[07:28:32] <XXCoder> codepython777: was redesign part of quote
[07:28:35] <_methods> well a qty of 25 will never be cheap
[07:28:49] <_methods> you'll be paying for all setup costs
[07:28:53] <rob_h> oh must be sliding head i guess?
[07:29:06] <rob_h> or its realy big and need soeone that can swing 350mm lol
[07:29:35] <malcom2073> rob_h: Needs live tooling
[07:29:48] <rob_h> link ment to be a file?
[07:29:48] <codepython777> XXCoder: no, just assume i want to cut that part and its not available in the market for $8/pair
[07:29:56] <codepython777> rob_h: yes, STP
[07:30:21] <XXCoder> okay heh because if redesign was part of quote, then dang $100 is cheap lol
[07:30:28] <_methods> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23537674/test.PDF
[07:30:32] <_methods> there is a 3d pdf of his part
[07:31:10] <XXCoder> does not show up
[07:31:50] <archivist> blank pdf
[07:32:03] <_methods> you have to enable 3d pdf
[07:32:07] <rob_h> need enable 3D if have new PDF reader
[07:32:12] <rob_h> beat to it
[07:32:17] <_methods> hehe
[07:32:22] <rob_h> do the holes need to be alinged to hex
[07:32:29] <XXCoder> well blank should be easy. get any stock and machine it down till nothing left ;)
[07:33:03] <XXCoder> careful, dont overcut
[07:33:18] <codepython777> rob_h: yes
[07:33:28] <codepython777> and tapped
[07:34:09] <rob_h> well im UK anyways you prob else where
[07:35:39] <codepython777> us
[07:35:52] <codepython777> rob_h: how much does a part like that cost me if i want 25 of them from you? :)
[07:36:38] <rob_h> lol how big is it... whats it made from haha is it 1mm big or 50mm
[07:37:00] <_methods> looks like it's 24mm long
[07:37:08] <_methods> assuming scale of stp was correct on import
[07:37:27] <_methods> and 15.4mm max OD
[07:37:43] <_methods> he said it was alum
[07:37:49] <_methods> so i'm assuming 6061
[07:38:32] <_methods> so drill and tap for tapped holes, drill for center hole and boring bar, and end mill for hex head
[07:38:43] <_methods> say 7 tools to setup and bar feeder
[07:39:12] <_methods> 2 hour setup time if nothing is in the turret
[07:39:30] <_methods> most shops you'll be paying $300 just for the setup time alone
[07:40:18] <rob_h> yea prob with imports no drawings is no tolerances also
[07:40:19] <_methods> around 2 min cycle time depending on how fast the turret is
[07:40:36] <_methods> yeah no tolerances so hard to say without that complication added
[07:40:45] <rob_h> or thread depths
[07:40:57] <witnit> looks like an easy job
[07:41:12] <_methods> it's not bad but for 25........
[07:41:17] <witnit> a print would be nice
[07:41:20] <_methods> 1000 would be better
[07:41:27] <witnit> or maybe 50,000
[07:41:31] <witnit> imo
[07:42:04] <_methods> i think the $100/pc he got quoted was extremely high
[07:42:29] <_methods> i'd think $25/pc wouldn't be too bad even for a lathe/mill setup
[07:42:47] <_methods> but still way outside of his target of $8/set
[07:42:55] <_methods> i'm assuming a set is 2 parts
[07:43:01] <_methods> so you need them to be $4/pc
[07:43:25] <witnit> codepython777: what is your estimated annual usage on this part?
[07:43:41] <_methods> in order to get in the $4/pc range you would need much larger order
[07:43:49] <codepython777> I've an order of 25 - first lot - after that depends on how many i get - no idea
[07:43:55] <witnit> (my personal favorite way to quote a job is to know the EAU)
[07:45:23] <archivist> drawings with tolerances for proper quotes
[07:45:37] <_methods> yes all we can do is give you guesses without real prints
[07:45:39] <witnit> The type of shop best suited for this would probably be a swiss screw machine, most would be well tooled for such an operation
[07:46:26] <archivist> pay me enough to retrofit mine to cnc :)
[07:46:33] <_methods> hehe
[07:46:46] <_methods> 25*8=$200
[07:46:47] <witnit> codepython777: if you give very liberal tolerances you will get a much better quote
[07:46:58] <_methods> what can you do with $200 archivist lol
[07:47:05] <archivist> not a lot
[07:47:13] <_methods> heheh
[07:47:16] <_methods> damn
[07:47:34] <archivist> just about feed myself
[07:47:42] <_methods> groceries for the week lol
[07:47:56] <_methods> live axis legs to walk you to the store
[07:48:11] <archivist> actually food for me is down to about 15$
[07:48:33] <_methods> so that leaves $185 for beer
[07:48:55] <archivist> currently no beer for at least a couple of years
[07:49:15] <_methods> i'm sorry
[07:49:21] <_methods> http://engineerd3d.ddns.net/power-hacksaw-road-to-cnc/
[07:49:27] <_methods> now this is funny
[07:51:55] <rob_h> problem is, start using power tooled lathes or multi spinel turret lathe, you on something costs easy 350k so hour rate on that is going to be crazy thats if its fairly new if it was a simple 2 axis turn it part it off job then yea cheap as chips any one can make
[07:52:33] <_methods> that's why i said $300/hour setup 2 hours
[07:52:34] <rob_h> like you take a part on a standard 3axis VMC.. then have a part that needs a 5axis machine big jump in price
[07:52:36] <_methods> 1 hour programming
[07:52:38] <archivist> or use more than one type of machine
[07:52:50] <_methods> so about $900 for initial run just in setup and programming
[07:53:34] <archivist> at 25 some hand work is appropriate
[07:54:13] <_methods> at a shop with just 3 axis machines and normal lathes it would be 2 setups in the mill
[07:54:25] <_methods> 1 for cross drill and tap and 1 setup for hex
[07:54:50] <_methods> and the tapped holes have to be clocked to the hex head
[07:54:56] <archivist> or a tapping head in a pillar drill
[07:55:28] <archivist> or loose tolerance, tap in a battery drill :)
[08:00:48] <witnit> live tooling would be handy for the hex
[08:01:02] <witnit> everything else is pretty simple
[08:02:00] <archivist> the contra rotation hex cut is something to watch
[08:02:37] <witnit> contra?
[08:04:58] <archivist> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBDxveTBQLE
[08:05:49] <witnit> yeah those been around awhile
[08:07:01] <_methods> wtf cool
[08:07:04] <_methods> never seen that before
[08:07:15] <witnit> I think they were originally just a geared in shaft to spindle with number of cutters per wheel to genrate the polys
[08:07:43] <_methods> interesting
[08:07:46] <witnit> so 1 cutter makes two flats, 2 cutters make a square, 3 a hex
[08:08:06] <_methods> it's like ghetto live tooling
[08:08:11] <witnit> there is also the rotary slotting attachement
[08:08:21] <witnit> yeah but super fast ghetto tooling
[08:08:30] <witnit> and long life
[08:09:01] <witnit> imagine putting a screwdriver slot in the end of a part while the part is being rotated
[08:09:26] <archivist> _methods, look at the machining lines on your 1/2 socket set, often the square made that way
[08:09:48] <_methods> oh yah
[08:12:28] <archivist> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGq-9NNmr3o&feature=player_embedded
[08:14:47] <gregcnc> I saw an polygon attachment for a manual lathe one Ebay once
[08:15:02] <_methods> https://youtu.be/ykB6VsFC_cA
[08:15:08] <_methods> cool video explaining it
[08:17:00] <witnit> oh this one is neat, first a geometric pop-open diehead comes in, then a thread chasing attachment hits it from the cross slide https://youtu.be/Gly0_mvzK5g?t=36
[08:17:06] <witnit> all mechanical :)
[08:18:08] <witnit> oh lucky buggars even have the automatic barloader
[08:18:22] <_methods> that thing looks like a setup nightmare
[08:18:29] <witnit> they arent too bad
[08:18:39] <witnit> but you gotta take the learning curve
[08:18:48] <gregcnc> the die head roughs the thread?
[08:18:52] <witnit> no
[08:18:59] <witnit> they are cutting two different threads on the part
[08:19:17] <gregcnc> that's what I figured, but I couldn't see it on the part
[08:19:56] <witnit> I assume its just a pipe thread coming from the geometric and then a straight thread on the spindle side
[08:20:14] <witnit> or just two different straights
[08:20:27] <witnit> possibly L and R handed
[08:28:14] <gregcnc> I see what happened in that index video
[08:28:22] <witnit> yeah?
[08:30:44] <gregcnc> firefox was giving me trouble and i missed the part being feed through the turret only to see it fall out later and think WTF? Never seen that kind of work.
[08:30:49] <witnit> oh they double feed the part through the turret holes and he does the thread chasing side of the part a mile away from the die headed end, I ran a few jobs through the turret before, can be rought at times
[08:31:09] <witnit> yeah they arent really designed for that kind of work but they had a clever setup guy there, he knew his shit
[08:33:58] <witnit> nice cycle time for an old clunker here, how fast can you make a threaded part like that, even on a cheap cnc? =D https://youtu.be/rLYGiEKlupw
[08:34:27] <witnit> double indexer on the turret and the swing in stock stop to lower cycle time
[08:35:12] <witnit> ntm they could have nearly doubled the spindle speed for all other operations with a trip dog then shifted back into low for the threading
[08:39:55] <malcom2073> _methods: Watch the video on that "power hacksaw" page. He 3d prints a counterweight for his crankshaft
[08:40:04] <witnit> hahahah ikr
[08:40:32] <malcom2073> Then I scroll down... "Systems Engineer" Oh... makes sense now
[08:40:43] <witnit> :)
[08:46:55] <_methods> hahah
[08:47:08] <_methods> when all you have is a hammer...........
[08:47:38] <witnit> these cycletimes are realllllly good I dont think this kind of job is even affordable to run on a cnc https://youtu.be/HnCFDkxAVPE
[08:53:18] <FinboySlick> _methods: Reminds me of an AvE quote: "You don't need a micro controller, all you need is a 555, à couple resistors and a time machine to go back to 1979."
[08:53:54] <_methods> lol
[08:54:24] <FinboySlick> _methods: If you don't watch his stuff, I strongly recommend it. He is brilliantly Canadian.
[08:56:07] <witnit> I cant imagine banging out 100,000lbs of brass on a $250,000 machine when you can run the same thing on a $5,000 machine and some ingenuity.
[08:57:33] <FinboySlick> witnit: Depends on where your costs are. Hiring smart people is often more difficult than buying smart machines.
[08:57:46] <archivist> noobs think the setup time matters more than the cycle time
[08:58:19] <witnit> most people arent used to running big orders and figuring out how to compete with china
[08:58:50] <_methods> FinboySlick: yeah i've watched a couple of his things he's hilarious
[08:58:50] <witnit> paying off their 2005 machinery right about the time the bearings need replaced
[08:59:01] <_methods> i love it when he trashes that festool POS
[08:59:12] <_methods> people that buy that festool garbage make me lol
[09:06:36] <witnit> FinboySlick: that may be so, but the bottom line is, in a long production run, a cnc cannot compete with a screw machine and cold header shop
[09:09:24] <witnit> whats your cycle time again? https://youtu.be/994kHYpCZVY :)
[09:09:40] <gregcnc> cnc screw machines do well
[09:10:11] <witnit> they are not affordable for many jobs due to shop rate required to pay off the machine
[09:10:23] <witnit> they really have to be complex high production
[09:10:48] <gregcnc> not really I know a shop that runs fairly simple parts and has at least 6
[09:10:49] <witnit> almost like high production swiss type work
[09:11:00] <witnit> what do you mean fairly simple?
[09:11:00] <Jymmm> Is step/dir pwm, or something else?
[09:11:20] <gregcnc> something else
[09:11:42] <Jymmm> gregcnc: Know what it is or called?
[09:11:52] <gregcnc> witnit you probably use them every day, but I'm not going to say
[09:12:09] <Jymmm> swiss chop sticks!
[09:12:23] <gregcnc> i only know it as step/ dir
[09:12:47] <Jymmm> gregcnc: Ok, thanks. I dont think it's grey code, but something else.
[09:12:48] <gregcnc> PWM is like ±10V analog, but uses a PWM signal
[09:13:04] <gregcnc> PWM Frequency
[09:13:34] <gregcnc> The AMC manuals talk about it because they make both
[09:15:30] <Jymmm> I"m looking to do something like this (excuse the flood):
[09:15:36] <Jymmm> 000
[09:15:37] <Jymmm> 010
[09:15:37] <Jymmm> 101
[09:15:38] <Jymmm> 111
[09:16:09] <Jymmm> But *I* dont recognize if that is alread a set schema or if I'm making it up new.
[09:16:09] <archivist> gray code one bit change at a time
[09:16:38] <Jymmm> archivist: Right, and in the above that's not the cae. I'm just not aware of OTHER codes
[09:17:04] <archivist> yours looks a bit erm not right
[09:18:01] <Jymmm> Yeah it's NOT grey code, it's (basically) an increase in bits... sorta a pseudo pwm of sorts.
[09:18:05] <gregcnc> that's what I was thinking, but I dont' know what you're doing. I;ll have something like that with a lookup table for the ATC inthe lathe with three switches
[09:19:18] <Jymmm> I'd prefer to have in code rather than lookups, but I will if I must.
[09:20:34] <archivist> not pwm at all
[09:25:43] <Jymmm> Have you ever seen the led on a MacBook when it's sleeping? It kinda looks like it's snoring. I'm trying to do something like that, but specifically be able to create the patterns/sequences in code, rather than lookups if at all possible.
[09:26:57] <archivist> just a sequence of delays
[09:27:44] <gregcnc> gah, I should finish my lathe or buy one
[09:28:06] <archivist> nothing wrong with a look up table to start something off
[09:34:50] <Jymmm> No, but I need to build up a lot of them, so being able to do it in code would be much simpler in the long run.
[09:35:25] <archivist> define "a lot"
[09:36:33] <archivist> you know tables take up less space than equivalent code usually
[09:56:45] <Jymmm> a lot = 20-50
[09:59:06] <archivist> with a table you have one bit of small code and n entries, code to bit bang a port is larger than a table entry, you do the maths
[10:02:41] <Jymmm> It's not just the existance of tales, but the mundane process of crating them. And will eventually be adding even more. Where code may be larger, would allow flexability.
[10:02:48] <Jymmm> tables*
[10:03:02] <archivist> you may be mistaken
[10:12:11] <Jymmm> Oh sure, but since I need to play/test with code first it "finely tune" the animation sequence, and create table from that, thought I'd start in code first.
[10:13:30] <Jymmm> I have a couple of rotary encoders I'm going to use to make adjustments until I get what I want.
[10:15:33] <Jymmm> But it's like when milling a square with radius corners, and the tool has to slow down when it starts the arc, and speed up coming out of it. It's THAt where I'm a bit clueless on.
[10:17:03] <Jymmm> I'm thinking I need to view this (mentally) as a waveform, then bitbang that out.
[10:21:53] <evil_ren> step dir is just a 2bit parallel bus, shrug
[10:22:58] <evil_ren> its almost as vanila digital as it gets, its a single bit latch input
[10:23:56] <evil_ren> wait you want to make a macbook LED type throb?
[10:24:34] <evil_ren> thats pwm, i would personally feed it with a DDS synthesizer, which is a phase coherent cyclic lookup table
[10:31:13] <Jymmm> evil_ren: I was thinking something like this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6zqGwxqJQnw#t=116
[10:31:40] <evil_ren> arent those pixels?
[10:32:11] <evil_ren> i know a guy has a company that sells those on PCB with a RGB LED on it, pins on both sides to daisy chain
[10:32:18] <evil_ren> anyway, same answer as before
[10:32:38] <evil_ren> i drove them with a DDS synth, which is kind of overkill in most cases, but still very low processor load
[10:32:54] <evil_ren> it an add, check for overflow, maybe a subtract
[10:33:25] <Jymmm> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSiRkpgwVKY
[10:33:44] <Jymmm> or http://hackaday.com/2016/01/31/tv-transmitter-uses-esp8266/
[10:33:48] <Jymmm> (same)
[10:34:12] <evil_ren> anyway thats not bit banging
[10:34:45] <evil_ren> its loading a serial audio protocol buffer
[10:35:10] <evil_ren> thats what i2s is, its a pcm audio stream
[10:40:55] <Jymmm> Um, video... it's broadcasting NTSC.
[10:42:16] <jdh> my scope here does ntsc triggering which was really cool for about a minute or so
[10:43:25] <Jymmm> But this is a uC being exploited to output modulated RF, THAT's IMPRESSIVE.
[10:45:24] <Jymmm> NTSC CH 3 = 67.25 MHz
[10:47:50] <_methods> Jymmm: are you starting your own public tv channel
[10:48:01] <_methods> jymm's world
[10:48:17] <malcom2073> I'd change the channel on it, fo sho
[10:48:21] <_methods> heheh
[10:48:25] <_methods> excellent
[10:48:32] <Jymmm> _methods: Nah, video is overrated and just a fad.
[10:48:33] <_methods> dude
[10:49:55] <Jymmm> _methods: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cYdpOjletnc#t=6
[10:50:28] <_methods> lol
[10:50:33] <_methods> forgot about that guy
[10:56:02] <maxcnc> hi fiolks a wonderfull nice sunny day in Germany
[10:56:13] <maxcnc> Encapsulation: ?
[10:59:35] <maxcnc> i made a real quick construction with a animation http://bossert-veranstaltungsservice.de/ENC2.mpg
[11:00:02] <maxcnc> the price homemade on 1270oz steppers is around 1500USD
[11:00:07] <maxcnc> ALU frame
[11:00:34] <maxcnc> on oak frame better to build on drilling with no mashine its around1200
[11:01:26] <maxcnc> worksize is 30"x30"x12"
[11:01:37] <maxcnc> will see you later
[11:01:49] <maxcnc> cool runnings
[11:14:34] <Encapsulation> maxcnc, let me take a look
[11:15:14] <Encapsulation> it has the stability for 12" z??
[11:15:18] <Encapsulation> with wood frame
[11:45:26] <Loetmichel2> *MAAAAN* am i pissed now. Second time the Car meachanic called. "car is ready". so i drove there, picked it up. drove around the block and straight back to his shop. Radio works now, steerign wheel is straight now, too. but the radio buttons in the wheel dont work any longer. AND THE FU**** CAR STILL HAS NO POWER AT ALL!!!!1111 That guy has one more try, then he will get a letter from my
[11:45:26] <Loetmichel2> lawyer ordering him to pay back the 4k€ repair cost.
[12:04:13] <Encapsulation> you dont fix it yourself?
[12:04:14] <Encapsulation> =D
[12:04:20] <Encapsulation> I dont trust mechanics
[12:04:25] <Loetmichel2> i should have
[12:04:35] <Encapsulation> and if hes "guess and check" mechanic
[12:04:41] <Encapsulation> maybe time for a new mechanic xD
[12:05:10] <Encapsulation> I take my vehicle to the dealer to find out whats wrong
[12:05:12] <Encapsulation> for $100
[12:05:16] <Encapsulation> then I fix it myself and save thousands
[12:05:21] <Loetmichel2> but as the engine has blown every gasket and seal it had ( crank case vent was clogged) i didnt want to get THAT dirty. so i now have paid €4k and STILL have no working car...
[12:05:39] <Encapsulation> thats unacceptable for sure
[12:06:09] <Loetmichel2> especially because the car is 13 years old and worth about €1800
[12:06:15] <Encapsulation> @_@
[12:06:54] <Encapsulation> if you're paying more than a car payment each month to fix your car... time to buy a new car maybe
[12:07:08] <Encapsulation> or a running used one
[12:07:43] <Loetmichel2> btw: before the "repair" it was working flawlessly... only throwing about 5 liters oil in 500km on the street
[12:29:20] <maxcnc> hi
[12:32:14] <maxcnc> Encapsulation: ?
[12:39:37] <CaptHindsight> just can't keep yourself from kicking the fence can you
[12:39:56] <maxcnc> ;-)
[12:40:21] <maxcnc> CaptHindsight: making money out of other people idee is quit good
[12:40:39] <maxcnc> i got already a order on that layout
[12:59:18] <maxcnc> CaptHindsight: did you take a look on it
[13:08:12] <CaptHindsight> maxcnc: look at what?
[13:10:05] <maxcnc> http://bossert-veranstaltungsservice.de/ENC2.mpg
[13:11:06] <CaptHindsight> maybe some other time
[13:11:17] <maxcnc> :(
[13:16:52] <maxcnc> im off Gn8
[13:29:58] <Loetmichel2> uh
[13:30:14] <Loetmichel2> that looks a bit "open" in the gantry to me
[13:30:24] <Loetmichel2> ah maxcnc is already off
[13:36:17] <malcom2073> Wolf_: Some machine tool red tag super cheap sale today and tomorrow up near westminster
[13:36:40] <Wolf_> eh what where?
[13:36:47] <Wolf_> mostly what things
[13:37:34] <malcom2073> http://www.flywheelmachinetools.com/MAINSHOWPAGE.html
[13:37:36] <malcom2073> Here is last years flyer: http://www.flywheelmachinetools.com/springtagsale.html
[13:42:57] <malcom2073> The annoyin thing, I was *just* in westminster
[13:43:00] <malcom2073> don't think I'm gonna drive back
[13:43:24] <Wolf_> lol
[14:48:08] <unfy> meow.
[14:50:29] <Deejay> wuff
[14:53:58] <SpeedEvil> Quack
[14:56:39] <skunkworks_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jofNR_WkoCE
[15:02:14] <_methods> lol
[15:34:18] <unfy> stealing some 6-32 standoffs from work. ok, i handed the boss some cash, but still noinking them... enclosure for breakout & driver boards...
[15:45:45] <_methods> http://www.spacex.com/webcast
[15:45:52] <_methods> 4:43 launch time
[15:52:17] <evil_ren> fuck
[15:52:47] <evil_ren> i have to leave for lab course at launch time
[15:53:22] <CaptHindsight> keeps stalling, my tubes must still have stupid questions stuck in them
[15:57:36] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ustream.tv/nasahdtv commercial free
[15:58:37] <CaptHindsight> it's where's waldo with Pete, Pete: wave and jump up and down
[15:59:11] <unfy> 'firmware engineer' my ass.
[15:59:21] <unfy> that guy is all about the speaker poses and such
[15:59:47] <Deejay> gn8
[15:59:54] <unfy> \o
[16:01:54] <t12> i like their verbose paragraph of the mpeg2 sat stream
[16:11:23] <_methods> off we go
[16:11:35] <CaptHindsight> anyone recall the fuel used in that?
[16:11:43] <_methods> rocket fuel
[16:12:09] <CaptHindsight> regular or unleaded?
[16:12:14] <_methods> heheh both
[16:12:38] <Jymmm> Eh, it's only going 3100 MPH
[16:13:33] <Jymmm> Fine, 4200 MPH
[16:14:25] <CaptHindsight> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_9
[16:15:50] <CaptHindsight> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RP-1
[16:18:17] <CaptHindsight> http://www.haltermannsolutions.com/fueltypes/aerospace
[16:18:28] <unfy> \o/
[16:19:54] <_methods> damnit
[16:19:55] <CaptHindsight> been doing that since the 50's scifi films
[16:19:58] <_methods> cuts out right at the good part
[16:20:28] <unfy> the YT stream was solid for it
[16:20:33] <unfy> was perty
[16:20:40] <_methods> damn awesome
[16:20:43] <_methods> wooot
[16:21:33] <CaptHindsight> stage 1 landed what, maybe 30 ft from dead center?
[16:22:08] <_methods> i guess bezos can STFU now
[16:22:24] <unfy> lol, you have a favorite rich guy ? :D
[16:22:40] <unfy> i think it's awesome on both fronts \o/
[16:24:08] <_methods> meh i just didn't like how bezos was acting when they landed their little penis ship
[16:24:13] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecLdz1p-_Rw look at the twist in the fuselage
[16:24:16] <t12> the landing is so weird looking
[16:24:25] <unfy> t12: indeed lol
[16:24:46] <t12> congrats to spacex
[16:24:59] <_methods> their's going to be some partyin in florida tonight
[16:25:10] <t12> i wonder how the vehicle/ will do on launch2
[16:25:32] <_methods> why are they so obsessed with landing that thing on a boat anyways
[16:25:44] <t12> safer i imagine
[16:25:52] <t12> more choices of where to land
[16:26:20] <_methods> i would think a giant empty field in the desert would be better
[16:26:24] <SpeedEvil> _methods: Landing back on the land imposes a very severe payload penalty
[16:26:34] <SpeedEvil> Unless there happens to be land in the right place
[16:26:50] <unfy> ars technica's answer: After this Elon Musk tweet in response to this story, let me clarify that I meant "economic" in the sense that it is more difficult to close a business case for reusable flight if you can't land rockets at sea, because that's where most of them will have to come down.)
[16:26:56] <SpeedEvil> And because you're usually launching offshore to minimise debris - there is not
[16:29:02] <CaptHindsight> what I want to know is how this benefits me?
[16:29:19] <djdelorie> cheap space travel
[16:29:27] <CaptHindsight> to where?
[16:29:31] <djdelorie> and your house isn't hit by falling debris
[16:29:45] <djdelorie> gps, weather satellites, etc
[16:29:47] <unfy> cap: does it matter ?
[16:29:49] <CaptHindsight> not been a major concern
[16:29:56] <unfy> it was private comany doing private stuff
[16:30:21] <CaptHindsight> unfy: yes, everyone that runs everything only cares about how things benefit them
[16:30:34] <djdelorie> doesn't matter, space travel won't be cheap until the zero-G space porn industry kicks in
[16:30:37] <SpeedEvil> It can in principle drop the cost of space access ~10 fold
[16:30:53] <SpeedEvil> (once second stage reusability and ... )
[16:31:14] <SpeedEvil> Doing that means that you can properly reengineer the whole space industry
[16:35:00] <CaptHindsight> nah, just launch from space
[16:35:16] <SpeedEvil> what?
[16:35:27] <CaptHindsight> keep shuttling fuel out to the International Gas Station
[16:35:46] <SpeedEvil> Well, yes, that too
[16:36:26] <SpeedEvil> If you launch a F9 first stage with no second, retank it in orbit, and then do the same with a second stage, your payload capability is _stupid_
[16:37:16] <SpeedEvil> ^delta-v
[16:37:24] <CaptHindsight> the Ruskies could probably do it better
[16:37:46] <CaptHindsight> it's basically 2 aluminum tanks in a tube
[16:38:37] <unfy> it probably won't work this way for a while - but lets try it this way. the cost to put a comms satelite into orbit becomes cheaper. thus, they can provide phone service cheaper. or if you believe in the gov't doing all this - your tax dollar goes further.
[16:39:34] <CaptHindsight> my calls are already at a flat monthly rate and overpriced, based on price fixing vs free market
[16:40:13] <CaptHindsight> and they aren't over satellites
[16:40:44] <unfy> dunno if the big hops are wire or satellite these days.
[16:41:00] <CaptHindsight> fiber
[16:41:13] <unfy> but - you wanted an idea / example of how it might benefit you - it was an example
[16:41:35] <unfy> it may not have been an accurate one, but you should get the idea.
[16:41:49] <CaptHindsight> whats the real agenda?
[16:41:56] <djdelorie> space porn
[16:42:13] <unfy> for someone that has been so stoked about beam, and space stuff, you're being awefully offput now for some reason.
[16:43:20] <CaptHindsight> put away the fanboy glasses and start to look at it objectively
[16:43:28] <CaptHindsight> what's actually going on?
[16:43:49] <unfy> sooo you're bipolar. gotcha :D
[16:43:51] <enleth> unfy: normal calls never go over satelite
[16:43:54] <SpeedEvil> Aliens
[16:44:07] <djdelorie> private company wants to make a crap ton of money by being better than the government.
[16:44:09] <enleth> too much latency, too expensive to do two-way
[16:44:11] <XXCoder> only way to get it cheaper is less weight
[16:44:39] <XXCoder> unless we find better way to get to space, it will always be expensive per pound.
[16:44:45] <enleth> unfy: all normal service is over the wire or terrestial microwave
[16:45:00] <SpeedEvil> In principle, $100/kg is achievable with reusable conventional launch
[16:45:00] <unfy> microwave links, that's what i was missing
[16:45:26] <enleth> unfy: but most of it now is over fiber
[16:45:48] <enleth> intercontinental is *always* over fiber
[16:46:33] <CaptHindsight> it was just an example , get off his back
[16:46:44] <enleth> just supplying data
[16:47:28] <CaptHindsight> now what are cheaper low orbit space launches good for?
[16:47:53] <enleth> science experiments mostly
[16:48:05] <witnit> bragging rights
[16:48:14] <enleth> telecoms prefer geostationary orbits
[16:48:20] <XXCoder> we need real space program. not those toy chemical rockets
[16:48:25] <XXCoder> we need techology.
[16:48:29] <jdh> 3d zeroG pr0n
[16:48:41] <XXCoder> jdh: that may well push us to space finally
[16:48:56] <XXCoder> porn has been something that made tech popular. like video and internet
[16:49:20] <XXCoder> porn have caused many tech to happen
[16:49:22] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: they reduce the costs of satellites and major space exploration
[16:51:54] <jdh> I thought porn would make vr stuff happen
[16:52:24] <jdh> I got a samsung vr gear thing with my phone. Kinda cool, but... didn't see any porn
[16:52:44] <XXCoder> jdh: porn industry is having problems now I guess, due to internet
[16:52:50] <XXCoder> free porn easily accessable.
[16:53:04] <_methods> bad self esteem makes porn happen, not vr
[16:53:05] <_methods> lol
[16:53:51] <CaptHindsight> "In 2011, SpaceX estimated that Falcon 9 v1.0 development costs were on the order of $300 million.[24] NASA evaluated that development costs would have been $3.6 billion if a traditional cost-plus contract approach had been used."
[16:54:21] <CaptHindsight> so the savings were by changing how they spend the money
[16:55:13] <XXCoder> or in F24 method, 3 trillion
[17:17:48] <t12> lol
[17:17:55] <t12> thats a pretty big gap
[17:21:53] <XXCoder> oops
[17:21:55] <XXCoder> F 35
[17:22:19] <XXCoder> https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-olc6HFOKgWE/UMqLlWgO3pI/AAAAAAAAANY/or-EzX-NdzI/s1600/F-35-Money-4-copy.jpg
[17:22:40] <XXCoder> that method of flying would be cheaper than development of that plane.
[17:23:39] <t12> must rule to be on the manufacturing contract side if the f35
[17:25:58] <XXCoder> t12: it cost usa $1.5 trillion so far.
[17:26:14] <XXCoder> if that was never spent, everyone could get free $200,000 house, including kids
[17:26:23] <XXCoder> and STILL barely dent that money'
[17:28:02] <t12> lol
[17:28:35] <XXCoder> funny thing, that strunks to nothing compared to Panama scandal
[17:28:45] <XXCoder> 32 trillion in slashed money to avoid taxes.
[17:29:40] <XXCoder> *stashed
[17:49:19] <Jymmm> I have about 20 of these 4" casters that have a bent stud on them. http://ace.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pACE3-981214enh-z8.jpg
[17:50:40] <Jymmm> On one, I cut off the stud and attempted to drill it out to replace with a grade 8 bolt instead. but the pressed in part at minimum is 1/2" and just trying to drill it out has snapped a coule of bits so far.
[17:51:03] <Jymmm> 1/2" wide that is
[17:51:29] <SpeedEvil> cut it off leaving the bearing?
[17:51:44] <Jymmm> Else the inner part just spins, even when clamped with vise-grips
[17:52:00] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: I cut it off just at the base of the threads
[17:52:26] <Jymmm> it was as close to the pressed in part as I could get to with a 4" angle grinder.
[17:52:33] <SpeedEvil> What is visible under the bottom of the shaft
[17:52:59] <SpeedEvil> Looking up past the wheel
[17:53:02] <Jymmm> Let me see if I can find a pic, or I'll go take one.
[17:53:14] <Jymmm> gimme a few minutes...
[17:53:54] <SpeedEvil> I would destroy one with the angle grinder I suspect to get a good idea of construction if I had a lot
[17:56:45] <SpeedEvil> Did they bend due to abuse?
[17:57:03] <SpeedEvil> If so, bending them back may be an option
[17:57:17] <SpeedEvil> Or welding on new bolts to the stubs
[18:09:47] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: No abuse, just rolling on to moving truck, but I suspect the ride and bouncing caused them to bend under the weight. It's just the threaded portions that are bent, straightening them is not really an option, but I want to remove the existing ones, and replace with a grade 8 bolt instead (pictured), then I cna replace them anytime in the future if needed. Uploading pics now
[18:10:34] <SpeedEvil> ah
[18:12:49] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: I have a few of these racks.... 48"W x 18"D x 72"H + 4" casters http://images.costco-static.ca/image/media/500-184525-894__1.jpg
[18:15:54] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: the weight-per-rack rating is 3000 lbs, BUT... (at the time) there was no difference in rating with the casters, they NOW state 600 lbs with casters. I guess that's after so many people complained about the shitter casters, which of course I didn't know at the time, never abused then, and never anticipated the vibration in the moving truck
[18:16:47] <Jymmm> Eeeesh, still dl'ing form phone, at 1.4GB and still going, lol
[18:30:54] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: http://imgur.com/fYWGlbptop-center pic is the bottom (underside) of the "frame" http://imgur.com/fYWGlbp
[18:31:13] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: top-center pic is the bottom (underside) of the "frame" http://imgur.com/fYWGlbp
[18:32:21] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: The snapped drill bit you see is 3/8"
[18:32:52] <SpeedEvil> hm
[18:34:35] <SpeedEvil> The shaft is not well attached - spins - compared to the ball races?
[18:35:27] <Jymmm> the "shaft" is pressed in, and is loose so it just spins, thus the channel locks you see in an attmpt to hold it
[18:36:14] <SpeedEvil> Do you have a welder?
[18:36:25] <Jymmm> sadly, no.
[18:36:46] <SpeedEvil> Is there a stub on the shaft with a good thread?
[18:37:33] <Jymmm> Except for the one caster where I cut off the threaded part of the shaft they are all there as seen in the left-most pic
[18:37:53] <SpeedEvil> Oh - just slightly bendy
[18:38:26] <SpeedEvil> You can cut off the bendy bit of the shaft, and then thread on two nuts, and crank them against each other to get a nice lock.
[18:38:27] <Jymmm> Well, slightly bendy, extends to 2" bended wheel
[18:38:55] <SpeedEvil> Now clamp one in the vice, and use that firmly attached to - with very heavy pressure slowly - drill out from the base
[18:39:01] <Jymmm> which extends to 1000lb rack falling over =)
[18:39:31] <Jymmm> Ok, I see what you're saying, vise the attached nuts
[18:40:11] <Jymmm> Actually, may NUT need two nuts, as they would be upside down
[18:40:14] <Jymmm> NOT*
[18:40:32] <SpeedEvil> you don't want to spin the shaft in the top 'nut' - as that may 'clamp' down on the balls and damage the bearing
[18:41:13] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: 32 Trillion could pay for lots of rocket programs :)
[18:41:19] <Jymmm> Right, but I think the drill bit would be going in the same direction as "tightening" the nut
[18:41:34] <SpeedEvil> yeah - but if you're working against the clamped nuts - it's not an issue
[18:42:49] <Jymmm> I hear ya. Now, what the hell do I do about this monster pressed fitting?1 I'm already at 1/2" drill bit and STILL not big enough it seems.
[18:43:40] <CaptHindsight> gas wrench
[18:43:46] <Jymmm> and it's gotta be either heat treated or work-hardened, as it's a mofo to drill, even starting at 1/8" and working my way up
[18:44:19] <SpeedEvil> Or stick
[18:44:30] <Jymmm> hmmm???
[18:44:44] <SpeedEvil> and tack to the bottom, then unscrew the 'nut' on top after tidying the thread
[18:44:50] <CaptHindsight> http://pad1.whstatic.com/images/d/db/Cutting25_132.jpg
[18:45:14] <SpeedEvil> stick may be better - you can't heat the bottom too much, it's got a ball race in
[18:45:16] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: lol, only propane torch =(
[18:45:26] <Jymmm> stick???
[18:45:36] <SpeedEvil> stick welding
[18:45:39] <Jymmm> ah
[18:47:35] <Jymmm> I just keep thinking there should be something OTERH than a drillbit I should be using, like a tapered abrasive bit, or whatever, but since everything is recessed, it's a bitch to get anythign in there without damaging other parts.
[18:48:29] <Jymmm> no edm availabel either btw ;)
[18:48:39] <CaptHindsight> have a grinder and some stones?
[18:49:56] <CaptHindsight> https://www.polyvance.com/images/products/Tapered-Burr-1-4-Shank-1.2.jpg
[18:50:21] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: would that work in a drillpress?
[18:50:29] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: it's easy to grind it off, but not in that location
[18:50:33] <CaptHindsight> a fast one
[18:50:50] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: tell me about it =)
[18:51:01] <SpeedEvil> Err - nvm
[18:51:20] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: is that bit THAT agressive? and come in 5/8" ?
[18:51:21] <SpeedEvil> On reflection - take above 'two nuts' suggestion - and try to unscrew the big 'nut' at the top
[18:51:37] <SpeedEvil> After lubricating the shaft just above the large nut
[18:51:57] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: It's all pressed, no nuts anywhere.
[18:51:57] <SpeedEvil> perhaps after applying gentle heat to the whole thing
[18:52:20] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: think like a giant funky ass treaded rivet
[18:52:25] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: It looks to me like the shaft going through the whole thing is threaded on top, and teh big hex nut is on top
[18:53:19] <SpeedEvil> they thread the nut onto the threaded shaft, put the balls in, put the bottom cage on, and peen the end of the shaft
[18:53:20] <gregcnc> tap something for that thread put it in the mill vise and drill it with a carbide tipped concrete drill
[18:53:37] <SpeedEvil> ^resharpened
[18:53:57] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: That 2" or so hex plate thing is "suppose" to be able to thread the caster on to the leg, but the pressed part is too loose to even use it for that, with ZERO load on the rack
[18:54:13] <CaptHindsight> cutting wheel on the grinder and go right through the blue
[18:54:31] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: there is a bearing there
[18:54:46] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: there is a circular race around the top and bottom of the plate bearing the wheel
[18:54:48] <CaptHindsight> not after the wheel cuts through :)
[18:55:01] <Jymmm> lol, bastard =)
[18:55:17] <SpeedEvil> Well - yes - in principle you could remake it - but I'm guessing that Jymmm does not have a lathe suitable to make a replacement
[18:55:36] <Jymmm> give that man a prize!
[18:55:40] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: please provide us a list of your tools
[18:55:53] <CaptHindsight> we will deliberate and come up with a plan
[18:56:26] <gregcnc> if you thread that stud into a plate or block it should tighten itself when you drill from the back. unless you have sticks and rocks to work with
[18:56:49] <Jymmm> drill presses, 4" angle grinder, bench grinder, band saw
[18:57:15] <Jymmm> gregcnc: the thing is, there is nothing to grip on the back side of that threaded shaft to tighten
[18:57:35] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: you jam two nuts onto the shaft
[18:57:53] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: crank one clockwise, the other anticlockwise, so as to grab the shaft firmly
[18:58:03] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: Yes, but not for what gregcnc was suggesting
[18:58:13] <gregcnc> you don't have to tighten, let it tighten itself as you drill
[18:58:27] <SpeedEvil> gregcnc: which will pinch the bearings
[18:58:40] <gregcnc> there si a step on that shaft
[18:58:45] <Jymmm> I am going to do the two nuts opposing each other thing.
[18:59:00] <CaptHindsight> Trump and Cruz
[18:59:10] <gregcnc> how to they peen it if it pinches the bearings?
[18:59:27] <Jymmm> Instead of potentially snapping a few more drillbits, is there something else I should be using ?
[18:59:40] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: die grinder
[18:59:51] <SpeedEvil> gregcnc: hmm
[19:00:08] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: I dont have a compressor or die grinder, or do you mean just the tapered bit?
[19:02:01] <SpeedEvil> ti won't really work with a drill press alas
[19:02:37] <Jymmm> figured. and I'd probably empty my nitrogen tank before getting thru the first one too
[19:03:07] <CaptHindsight> liquid nitrogen and a sharp blow
[19:03:31] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Shit, lets do this in one shot.. LOX
[19:04:36] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: what is the name of that bit you showed me?
[19:05:25] <CaptHindsight> https://www.polyvance.com/Die-Grinder-Bits-1/Tapered-Burr-1-4-Shank/
[19:07:37] <CaptHindsight> good ones will eat right through what you have
[19:07:57] <CaptHindsight> cheapos from Chinaco will just wear
[19:08:48] <Jymmm> Tht one says it'll go thru plastic in a hurry, dont say anything about steel =)
[19:12:01] <CaptHindsight> just an example
[19:12:17] <CaptHindsight> a good carbide burr will cut through it like butter
[19:14:00] <CaptHindsight> https://drillsandcutters.com/sl1-1-4-x-5-8-cone-carbide-burr-1-4-shank/
[19:26:53] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20160408-3d-cocooner-spins-nature-inspired-fiberglass-stuctures-in-mid-air.html
[19:27:18] <CaptHindsight> actually made by Festo
[19:28:23] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QCOTisgIHQ
[19:29:10] <CaptHindsight> CF + photopolymer for the win
[19:36:43] <Ralith> pretty ugly output
[19:37:01] <Ralith> and aren't photopolymers super expensive?
[19:37:54] <CaptHindsight> nope
[19:37:59] <Ralith> when did that change
[19:38:10] <CaptHindsight> it just needs a tighter weave
[19:38:18] <CaptHindsight> years ago
[19:38:41] <Ralith> I imagine if they thought a tighter weave was straightforward they would have gotten one before publishing
[19:39:01] <CaptHindsight> might not be for them
[19:39:23] <CaptHindsight> that might be the cutting edge of their ingenuity
[19:39:37] <Ralith> so "just" is a bit optimistic
[19:39:46] <CaptHindsight> for them maybe
[19:40:01] <Ralith> do you have good reason to believe someone else would have a much easier time
[19:40:19] <Ralith> still, interesting research direction
[19:40:30] <CaptHindsight> yeah, I've been working in this field for quite some time
[19:40:36] <pink_vampire> morning
[19:41:29] <Ralith> well, I eagerly await someone building a machine that can actually print that big chair they've rendered
[19:41:40] <CaptHindsight> it was just a video that shows how to do it very clearly since the weave was so large
[19:41:45] <Ralith> presuming it's structurally sound under the proposed method and not just a pretty picture
[19:42:04] <CaptHindsight> that chair is easy
[19:42:26] <Ralith> has it been done?
[19:42:32] <CaptHindsight> you can use paper and leave spaces that large
[19:43:03] <CaptHindsight> extrapolate using a better robot
[19:43:12] <CaptHindsight> not really a stretch
[19:43:30] <Ralith> then I shall expect to be happily surprised by a demo in the near future
[19:43:39] <CaptHindsight> ever see a robot ties knots with string?
[19:44:05] <CaptHindsight> not sure of the patents
[19:44:50] <CaptHindsight> have to search prepreg fiber weaving robots
[19:45:41] <CaptHindsight> spiders don't count I guess
[19:45:51] <Ralith> can't sit on a spiderweb
[19:46:38] <CaptHindsight> think real hard, and scale it up
[19:46:52] <Encapsulation> Loetmichel2, maxcnc is suggesting I should build that machine perhaps, for $1200
[19:47:12] <malcom2073> Encapsulation: You could, but the real cost is in the 4 machines you have to build and learn from your mistakes before youdo it right
[19:47:13] <CaptHindsight> spider silk is how many times stronger than steel?
[19:47:32] <CaptHindsight> tensile modulus
[19:47:44] <Ralith> I'm sure it's physically possible to construct such a thing; I'm waiting to see someone build a machine that can actually do it
[19:47:47] <Encapsulation> Spider dragline silk has a tensile strength of roughly 1.3 GPa. The tensile strength listed for steel might be slightly highere.g. 1.65 GPa, but spider silk is a much less dense material, so that a given weight of spider silk is five times as strong as the same weight of steel.
[19:47:53] <CaptHindsight> and it's an organic polymer
[19:48:16] <CaptHindsight> bio-organic
[19:48:45] <CaptHindsight> I'll build you one for $250K in a few months
[19:48:58] <CaptHindsight> what size chairs do you want?
[19:50:23] <Ralith> waiting to see, not funding :p
[20:27:24] <jdh> building one yourself is an excellent way to discover many things that don't work. very useful experience
[20:27:55] <malcom2073> It is
[20:28:13] <_methods> kickstarter
[20:28:41] <_methods> spider silk factory
[20:40:17] <CaptHindsight> malcom2073: learn from the mistakes and success of others vs reinvent the wheel
[20:41:01] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: Education is expensive, much better to do it on someone elses dime
[20:41:24] <CaptHindsight> shut up and listen is pretty low budget
[20:41:46] <CaptHindsight> ask someone with experience
[20:43:04] <gregcnc> capt are you launching a kickstarter for organic spider web chairs?
[20:44:04] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: it can pay for ALL of em. with charge left over to house everyone and give basic income
[20:45:04] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: early market research said that spiders don't sit much, now spider shoes, that could be a big winner
[20:48:48] <gregcnc> an octect of shoes per sale does sound profitable
[20:49:04] <XXCoder> now to find what people can make such tiny shoes.
[20:49:47] <CaptHindsight> easier for children
[20:49:52] <CaptHindsight> small fingers and all
[20:50:04] <CaptHindsight> https://sites.psu.edu/eseminar/2014/03/10/the-medical-field-using-spider-silk-now/
[20:50:09] <XXCoder> what aboutn pesky child labor laws
[20:51:00] <CaptHindsight> https://youtu.be/66QUEnkk4L0?t=1m40s Smart Material Spider Silk
[20:51:24] <CaptHindsight> build a tall enough wall and nobody will notice
[20:51:32] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: ^^
[20:51:37] <XXCoder> heh
[20:51:43] <XXCoder> Trump would love that
[20:51:52] <XXCoder> make people outside wall pay for it too
[20:51:57] <CaptHindsight> walls solve most problems
[20:52:21] <CaptHindsight> keeps insides from outsides
[20:53:54] <CaptHindsight> keep robots from attacking old people
[20:54:05] <CaptHindsight> except for the wall climbing robots
[20:58:29] <XXCoder> old man yell at cloud
[21:00:42] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO_yWKGL8KI 1980 Web Spinning Spiderman
[21:02:41] <XXCoder> wow
[21:02:55] <XXCoder> interesting, wonder how they did that
[21:40:51] <Encapsulation> www.altavista.com
[21:52:08] <pink_vampire> http://cheezburger.com/8764605440/hats-trolling-parenting-what-hats-were-made-to-keep-babies-warm?ref=whatspopularvotes