#linuxcnc | Logs for 2016-03-31

[00:18:24] <Polymorphism> "you choose 1.5kw or 2.2kw spindle or ?" its ok, right?
[00:21:20] <pink_vampire> probe+zigzag paper
[00:22:42] <Polymorphism> added to the list
[00:24:39] <Polymorphism> some pool cue makers are absolutely raving about xzero machines
[00:39:57] <alfro__> I am novice so please forgive me for dumb query but what is the diff between linuxCNC and machinekit?
[00:41:34] <Jymmm> machinekit is a completely independant entity that is/was based on linuxcnc. Very much how ubuntu is based on debian.
[00:41:53] <djdelorie> some of the images in the docs still say "linuxcnc" too
[00:43:42] <alfro__> ok
[00:44:08] <alfro__> sorry but what advantages does it provide over former?
[00:44:23] <alfro__> also I wud lik to thank you
[00:55:56] <alfro__> Some diff I find looking at source is that linuxCNC developer has only x86 support in mind and machinekit have support for ARM arch, So they added support for that
[00:57:56] <archivist> actually that is not true linuxcnc is also compiled for arm
[00:58:56] <archivist> what is actually different is perhaps the pru support for the beaglbone
[01:11:48] <Renny> Gah, I want to bootstrap everything
[02:33:26] <Deejay> moin
[05:08:25] <XXCoder> finally here heh
[05:08:33] <XXCoder> pink_vampire: hey
[05:08:42] <XXCoder> any progress on that project?
[05:18:12] <ReadError> can anyone suggest an inexpensive vise of this style: http://www.amazon.com/South-Bend-Lathe-SB1248-Lockdown/dp/B007UMGAZA/
[05:18:17] <ReadError> like a brand I can get in the USA
[05:18:39] <ReadError> I need 4-5" opening but somewhat low profile, not adjustable
[05:18:46] <ReadError> nothing fancy
[05:20:09] <Sync> oh lol that is someone selling china crap for insance prices
[05:21:06] <ReadError> a lot of them are adjustable bases etc
[05:21:11] <ReadError> i dont need/want any of that
[05:21:22] <ReadError> its only for a little taig mill
[05:22:13] <Sync> you are always going to get the swivel base
[05:22:18] <Sync> but you can just lift it off
[05:22:37] <Sync> just get one of those grinding vises
[05:22:52] <ReadError> just need some brands etc to look for, looking for vises/vices yeilds many results
[05:23:02] <Sync> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=425-7240&PMPXNO=951597&PARTPG=INLMK32
[05:23:09] <Sync> if you don't want to hate yourself, get a kurt
[05:23:26] <ReadError> yea lot of those grinding style cant open very big
[05:23:34] <ReadError> which was the other problem i was running into
[05:24:27] <Sync> you might want to clamp your parts in another way then
[05:34:40] <ReadError> https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1145&category=1963256913
[05:34:43] <ReadError> this could work
[05:36:06] <Sync> that is not a milling vise
[05:36:16] <Sync> or well, it is but no
[05:37:38] <evil_ren> works for a micromill that would flex before that ripped apart
[05:37:58] <ReadError> https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3857&category=1963256912
[05:38:08] <ReadError> something like this is what i need
[05:38:23] <evil_ren> thats closer to what i have
[05:39:47] <ReadError> any idea on what brand or something I could search for on that?
[05:39:49] <evil_ren> http://www.use-enco.com/1/1/3123-toolmakers-vises-428-9126.html
[05:40:15] <evil_ren> thats almost exactly what i have, its pretty heavy but the steppers seem okay with it
[05:41:42] <enleth> ReadError: what size mill is that for?
[05:41:51] <ReadError> its a little one
[05:41:57] <ReadError> taig is what I have
[05:42:00] <enleth> ah, ok
[05:42:00] <evil_ren> oh
[05:42:07] <evil_ren> yeah i use that on my taig
[05:42:58] <evil_ren> my particular one, its height is just clear of the Z ways and screw
[05:43:10] <enleth> I'm looking for a vise myself but I've decided to ditch the idea of buying a new one and look for those half century old boat anchors that crop up on local exchange sites
[05:44:28] <enleth> bead blast, repaint, fit a new screw - and you've got a vise your grandchildren will usw
[05:45:13] <ReadError> http://www.use-enco.com/1/1/3123-toolmakers-vises-428-9126.html
[05:45:16] <ReadError> think ill go with that
[05:45:39] <enleth> that's a grinding vise
[05:46:24] <Sync> so?
[05:46:33] <Sync> they work very well for milling
[05:46:44] <ReadError> god enco's site is so horrible
[05:46:51] <evil_ren> youll need step clamps or something similar to hold it down
[05:47:02] <enleth> but they're a huge PITA to operate
[05:47:11] <evil_ren> readerror: what size motors do you have?
[05:47:19] <ReadError> nema23s
[05:47:23] <ReadError> pretty big ones
[05:47:35] <evil_ren> yeah itll prob be fine mine arent that big
[05:47:55] <enleth> if the nut thingy unscrews and falls off, you're screwed instead
[05:48:10] <evil_ren> eh?
[05:48:15] <enleth> goodbye alignment
[05:48:24] <evil_ren> why would it just fall off
[05:48:41] <evil_ren> mines fallen off like 100 times
[05:48:53] <evil_ren> you just reach in and put it back on
[05:49:09] <evil_ren> but its never fallen off while its holding something for no reaosn
[05:49:28] <Sync> they are pretty slick to operate, you just push down to release the mechanism and adjust
[05:49:33] <enleth> no, I mean while adjusting
[05:50:14] <Sync> there is nothing to fall off
[05:50:16] <enleth> if you can fit your fingers in the slot between the ways, sure, you can put it back together
[05:50:25] <enleth> I can't in mine
[05:50:31] <evil_ren> yeah i think maybe you are not good at this, i put it a few turns into the nut, slide the jaws onto the work, put the nut crossbar into a slot, tighten bolt
[05:50:38] <evil_ren> its not that complicated
[05:50:47] <Sync> I have to take the screw all the way out to make the slider fall out
[05:50:55] <Sync> I can't even use it if it is out that far
[05:51:27] <evil_ren> yeah it bumps my tslots, and the nut is all sticking out the top
[05:52:42] <enleth> evil_ren: depends in the vise maybe, on mine some part widths need the screw extended pretty far to reach a slot at a good angle
[05:53:20] <evil_ren> whenever that is the case i can usually go to the next closest slot
[05:53:35] <evil_ren> and yeah im pretty sure most of those vises are slightly diff
[05:53:35] <enleth> evil_ren: think before you accuse someone of not knowing what they're doing
[05:53:54] <evil_ren> i wouldnt even expect two of the same type to be part swappable
[05:54:08] <evil_ren> enleth: haha youre a dork when did i say that
[05:54:47] <evil_ren> oh i kinda did, cheers
[05:54:53] <enleth> >maybe you are not good at this
[05:55:13] <enleth> maybe there are other valid reasons, you know
[05:56:45] <evil_ren> the biggest one actually being not the same vise
[05:58:26] <evil_ren> nut is probably 10 turns deep, its more of a sleeve, and the only way to have it fall out is when trying to hit a slot at a ridiculous angle
[06:08:56] <miss0r> Do any of you guys know how I can tell what software version is on my maho 432 controller?
[06:09:25] <Sync> take out the cpu board and look at the eproms
[06:09:44] <miss0r> no way to look at the screen ?
[06:10:46] <miss0r> every time I have to access the back of the mill, I have to crawl under the HID and unlatch 3 locks, then crawl back out and walk around the building and unlock the garage door from the outside. THEN I can open the cabinet on the mill :)
[06:11:05] <miss0r> *sigh* I shall do so then
[06:14:21] <minibnz> yay i think i have the config setup to make a tool changer work.. had to chase a bug or two but thats ok they are all sorted. main bug was that it wouldn't open the collet on the first tool request. so i had to add a startup gcode to open the collet on power up.. yes this is a little dangerous but i will have to set a rule to always unload the tool before powering down the mill.
[06:14:50] <minibnz> no python required just the latest version of linuxcnc and a bit of gcode.
[06:17:58] <XXCoder> not bad
[06:18:08] <XXCoder> all machines has quirks it seems
[06:18:13] <XXCoder> recommand sign at power off
[06:18:47] <minibnz> only took me 6 days.... 4 days of chasing my tail around the PLC and then upgrading to 2.7 another 2days to configure.
[06:18:50] <TurBoss> morning
[06:19:07] <TurBoss> is safe to run stepper motors with unregulated powersupply?
[06:19:12] <TurBoss> 30v DC
[06:19:15] <minibnz> there is actually a note in the component write up that you have to unload before power down..
[06:19:16] <XXCoder> minibnz: could have backup of setting "tool zero" and its poweron function to put tool there if there is tool when its powered on
[06:19:27] <TurBoss> motor rated to 48 driver to 35
[06:19:28] <XXCoder> not too certain how possible that is though actually
[06:20:09] <SpeedEvil> TurBoss: stepper motors do not really have a hard maximum voltage
[06:20:22] <SpeedEvil> TurBoss: the stepper driver rating is more important, and limiting the current
[06:20:27] <minibnz> XXCoder nah cant do the T0 thing as it doesnt respond to a T0 first up. and if you give it any non T0 pocket it would crash the carousel with a closed collet.
[06:20:30] <TurBoss> yes i know
[06:20:35] <TurBoss> limited to 2Amps
[06:20:41] <TurBoss> per phase
[06:20:48] <TurBoss> motors can handle 2.8 max
[06:20:52] <SpeedEvil> TurBoss: In that case, fine
[06:21:01] <TurBoss> unregulated ok?
[06:21:10] <XXCoder> minibnz: script it so it moves to "safe spot" drop tool then go home?
[06:21:19] <XXCoder> reardless if it has tool or not
[06:21:20] <SpeedEvil> 'unregulated' is less relevant as long as it stays in the usable range.
[06:21:22] <TurBoss> thx
[06:21:38] <SpeedEvil> The stepper driver should current limit on a moment-by-moment basis.
[06:21:38] <minibnz> TurBoss i would be wary.. 30vdc unregulated with a switching load might go over 35v
[06:21:48] <SpeedEvil> Performance may vary.
[06:21:56] <SpeedEvil> And that - actually check open-circuit-voltage
[06:22:08] <minibnz> whats the open voltage of the supply? ie no load connected?
[06:22:09] <TurBoss> ahhmmm
[06:22:17] <TurBoss> 31.5 v
[06:23:04] <TurBoss> i can put a resistor in load and measure?
[06:23:25] <minibnz> doesn't leave a lot of headroom for a inductive load getting switched. personally i would try with only one axis connected first, so you have a hope of only blowing one channel out.
[06:23:45] <XXCoder> fuses?
[06:23:46] <TurBoss> hahahah yes that was my idea
[06:24:04] <minibnz> usually a unregulated supply will drop its voltage when you load it up..
[06:24:26] <TurBoss> the drives is a 4988
[06:24:41] <TurBoss> it tells max vmot = 35
[06:25:03] <TurBoss> and yes i will put a fuse for sure
[06:25:26] <minibnz> i think you will be ok just unplug the other unused channels. i have the same drivers on my 3dprinter running nema23's at 24volts.
[06:25:58] <TurBoss> is safe to turn on the drivers without motors?
[06:26:04] <minibnz> those drivers are cheap to replace. you just gotta hope that you dont hurt the PCB.
[06:26:29] <TurBoss> 9€
[06:26:32] <minibnz> yeah you can power up without a load on them.. i have 5 installed in my printer and only have 4 motors connected most of the time.
[06:26:41] <TurBoss> ok fin
[06:26:42] <TurBoss> e
[06:26:45] <TurBoss> thank you all
[06:26:49] <minibnz> no probs
[06:29:24] <minibnz> XXCoder i wonder if there is a shut down section to EMC. ie some Gcode it runs when you shut it down.
[06:29:48] <XXCoder> good question, if there is startup gcode then maybe
[06:29:58] <miss0r> Sync, If i remove the cpu board, the machine constants goes bye bye. I am not curious enough at this point to re-type all the constants again
[06:30:13] <_methods> minibnz: you can make your own custom shutdown button
[06:30:19] <_methods> that runs the gcode you want on shutdown
[06:30:24] <minibnz> yeah that and idea..
[06:30:57] <_methods> i think JT-Shopp has tutorial on custom buttons
[06:31:57] <minibnz> SHUTDOWN = shutdown.hal - Execute the file shutdown.hal when LinuxCNC is exiting.
[06:32:06] <_methods> i think it's covered in the integrator manual too
[06:32:18] <_methods> ah there you go
[06:32:21] <minibnz> i can slap some setp's to return the tool..
[06:32:56] <minibnz> that will be a bit of fun.. working out how to make the head go up from HAL..
[06:33:14] <_methods> it might be easier to make a custom button
[06:33:20] <minibnz> all the rest i can do. its the axis movement that i dont know how to get working
[06:33:34] <_methods> and it would keep the original shutdown clean in case you wanted to use this computer to run another cnc
[06:33:42] <minibnz> the button would simply be T0M6
[06:34:15] <minibnz> oh this computer is mounted in the cabinet so i wont be using it for anything else..
[06:34:26] <minibnz> its dedicated to this task..
[06:35:40] <_methods> hah that's what you think lol
[06:36:11] <minibnz> if i need another computer the same as this i will jsut grab another motherboard out of my crate..
[06:36:14] <_methods> i always say that then i end up frankensteining it into something els
[06:36:32] <minibnz> when my last job shut up shop i claimed heaps of stuff they were going to toss out..
[06:38:47] <minibnz> i have many MB's to choose from.. atom270's and up.. what i need is to get my touchscreen working.. but the linux drivers for it are beyond crap.. they were written by my old work so no support available.. and the one version i have found requires a custom kernel that will conflict with the RATI kernel used in EMC
[06:40:07] <TurBoss> here is the power supply in question :) http://imgur.com/7dfw0DO
[06:40:34] <minibnz> is it heavy? its probably a transformer in a box..
[06:41:10] <TurBoss> yeah a lot
[06:41:59] <minibnz> how many amps is it rated at?
[06:42:14] <TurBoss> in specs says 100VA
[06:42:36] <minibnz> so 100/30 = 3.3amps.
[06:42:54] <TurBoss> fine
[06:42:56] <TurBoss> :)
[06:43:10] <minibnz> you know that probably wont have enough current to drive three axis hard enough on a mill.
[06:43:27] <minibnz> each channel can consume 2amps. 3 axis = 6amps.
[06:43:40] <TurBoss> hmmm
[06:44:01] <TurBoss> a lab supply tha i have at 15 never exceded 1 A
[06:44:09] <TurBoss> 15v
[06:44:30] <TurBoss> but good to know
[06:44:31] <minibnz> i have a 24v 15amp psu that drives my steppers.
[06:44:54] <TurBoss> those are expensive
[06:44:58] <TurBoss> no moneys xD
[06:45:08] <minibnz> my drivers are capable of 2.5amps per axis. and i have 4 axis.
[06:45:22] <minibnz> oh com'on you can find $30
[06:45:33] <TurBoss> yes?
[06:45:37] <TurBoss> ok will search
[06:46:05] <TurBoss> one thing is tha the trafo output is 24 v
[06:46:09] <TurBoss> 100/24?
[06:46:32] <TurBoss> rectifier es 31
[06:46:43] <TurBoss> but transformer outputs 24
[06:46:55] <minibnz> ok so 4 amps..
[06:47:11] <TurBoss> i need more :(
[06:47:13] <TurBoss> hehehehe
[06:48:08] <minibnz> oh wow.. i could be wrong on the price of the PSU.. i got two a few months back for $45ea but now all the listings on ebay are way more $$$
[06:50:54] <minibnz> here you go TurBoss http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/24V-15A-360W-AC-to-DC-Switch-Power-Supply-Transformer-for-LED-Strip-light-CCTV-/231887015242?hash=item35fd8b0d4a:g:OkgAAOSweW5VL3mA
[06:51:03] <minibnz> $30 us..
[06:51:21] <TurBoss> oh nice
[06:51:25] <TurBoss> thank you
[06:52:03] <minibnz> no problems. i got two psu's from that guy they are exactly as described.. i am using them for a laser power supply i am working on building..
[06:52:15] <TurBoss> nice
[06:52:22] <TurBoss> good to have feedback
[06:52:22] <minibnz> the mill has taken priority as i need to make a laser cavity for my yag crystal..
[06:53:54] <minibnz> the psu's i got were 5v 40amps and they can actually deliver 45amps before they cut out.. but dont rely on that over head..
[06:54:19] <XXCoder> yag crystal
[06:54:22] <TurBoss> i will phone my dealer to see how much costs here
[06:55:39] <minibnz> XXCoder yeah Yittrium Aluminium gallium doped crytsal. you side pump it with 808nm light and out the end comes 1094nm.. i have 4 x 40watt (output) laser diodes that i am going to use..
[06:55:47] <minibnz> should be able to cut stuff with that..
[06:55:48] <XXCoder> ahh cool
[06:56:05] <XXCoder> was wondering if there was new laser stuff related to all that silly crystal aura stuff
[06:56:11] <minibnz> how thick the stuff is, is another question but 160watts of light is a good start.
[06:56:38] <minibnz> hahahaha the offshoot of pyramid power :)
[06:56:44] <XXCoder> indeed
[06:57:17] <TurBoss> 38€ at local
[06:57:24] <TurBoss> i will pay
[06:57:26] <TurBoss> :P
[06:58:56] <TurBoss> cool stuff for laser
[06:58:58] <TurBoss> http://granitedevices.com/store/laserdiodedrivers/nx50-laser-diode-driver.html
[07:00:15] <minibnz> XXCoder down under here we had a car racer (peter brock) who was really good. probably the best we have seen. but he was in to all that cyrstal power crap.. so much so that he actually got his race car manufactured with what he called a polariser box.. all this box contained was three crystals that were in a star pattern.. he claimed that why he won the races the did..
[07:00:15] <minibnz> oh no.... they are bringing it back!!! peter brock has died but they are releasing a special edition of his car and it has the bloddy box in it..
[07:00:41] <XXCoder> jeez. lol
[07:00:53] <minibnz> lets just say a lot of people were laughing at him.. and not just behind his back...
[07:01:38] <XXCoder> well in least still no lasers. lol
[07:02:05] <XXCoder> "dont worry, that blindness means your aura is bleeding out all negativity!"
[07:02:32] <minibnz> but the fact that he got it put on in the factory was ammazing.. the particular race class he was in had rules saying that the car being raced had to come off the production line at the factory then it can be midified.. so he had to get this thing added to the street version of the car for it to be compliant even though the race officals couldn't see how it was meant to work..
[07:03:00] <XXCoder> crazy.
[07:03:00] <minibnz> yeah i gotta rememeber to not use the same eye when looking in the laser..
[07:03:12] <XXCoder> dont look at laser with your remaining eye
[07:03:19] <TurBoss> xDDD
[07:03:21] <minibnz> thats the sign i have on my door...
[07:03:49] <minibnz> right next to the hook for the glasses..
[07:04:04] <TurBoss> launch time
[07:04:06] <TurBoss> cu guys
[07:04:17] <XXCoder> later
[07:04:38] <minibnz> so far i have fired up one of the diodes to 30amps. they start buring wood at 20amps..
[07:04:57] <minibnz> so i have good chance of setting somethign on fire with it.. :)
[07:05:25] <SpeedEvil> minibnz: what're you doing?
[07:05:26] <SpeedEvil> oh
[07:05:39] * SpeedEvil is wondering about something rather simpler.
[07:05:50] <minibnz> hehehehe
[07:05:51] <SpeedEvil> ~6W blue diode to make a LASER soldering station.
[07:05:58] <minibnz> nice...
[07:06:20] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6W-NUBM44-450nm-Laser-Diode-In-Copper-Module-W-Leads-Glass-Lens-/171841778046?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item280291717e
[07:06:21] <minibnz> never thought about using a laser to solder stuff..
[07:06:25] <SpeedEvil> It's nice they are cheap now
[07:06:41] <SpeedEvil> Well - 'cheap'
[07:06:49] <SpeedEvil> but that's ridiculously cheap compared to what tehy were.
[07:07:10] <SpeedEvil> minibnz: What do you want the 1094 for?
[07:07:23] <minibnz> yeah they were way expensive a little while ago..
[07:08:08] <minibnz> 1094nm is just what this crystal puts out. i wanna cut stuff and 808nm is no good to cut stuff..
[07:08:31] <SpeedEvil> Well - depends on the stuff
[07:08:35] <minibnz> 1094nm is the same as what a CO2 laser puts out.. so i should be able to cut whatever a CO2 would
[07:08:39] <SpeedEvil> But if you mean LASER pump bars
[07:08:41] <SpeedEvil> err - no
[07:08:51] <SpeedEvil> 10940nm is what a CO2 puts out.
[07:08:52] <SpeedEvil> (ish)
[07:09:19] <minibnz> not trying to use the diodes directly, using that to pump the yag crystal
[07:09:43] <minibnz> the diode are bar diodes..
[07:10:05] <SpeedEvil> I've also been wondering about bars with a DIY collimator
[07:10:13] <SpeedEvil> First of course - DIY micropositioner
[07:10:21] <SpeedEvil> which is fun
[07:10:21] <minibnz> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFZPch-XA0M look at this then..
[07:10:29] <minibnz> this is exactly what you are thinking..
[07:10:51] <minibnz> old mate in the video has a diode bar and a pair of prisims to focus the bar into a dot..
[07:11:05] <minibnz> and he is cutting a steel spring..
[07:11:32] <SpeedEvil> yeah - I don't mean that
[07:11:41] <SpeedEvil> fiber coupler
[07:11:55] <minibnz> oh a fiber coupler.. yeah i wants to do the same..
[07:12:27] <minibnz> but i would have to use YAG fiber to keep the light in the fiber better.. you can also side pump YAG fibers..
[07:13:13] <minibnz> i have seen the fiber grates that you can buy to hold a stack of fiber ends in the right place for the bar diodes. i think it was coherent that was selling the,,
[07:13:20] <minibnz> them.
[07:13:22] <SpeedEvil> http://www.thorlabs.de/newgrouppage9.cfm?objectgroup_id=6845
[07:13:38] <SpeedEvil> has a nice selection of fiber
[07:13:40] <SpeedEvil> and cheap
[07:13:46] <SpeedEvil> well - in 1m lots
[07:14:39] <minibnz> yeah i was looking at getting some yag fiber to side pump but decided that it would be far too hard for a first laser. tolerances on that are seriously tight..
[07:15:35] <minibnz> the problem i have with fiber coupling is how do i fuse all the strands together.. i would need a very special fusion splicer..
[07:17:13] <_methods> http://uploads.neatorama.com/images/posts/356/89/89356/1459392199-0.jpg
[07:17:17] <_methods> crazy goat
[07:17:30] <malcom2073> minibnz: We have a fiber splicer at my work, they're pretty impressive devices
[07:17:35] <minibnz> i am considering making one.. from what i saw at tafe they are a rather simple. microscope , a arc to do the work and some micro motors to push the ends together just a bee's pubic hairs width close..
[07:17:40] <Tom_itx> that was staged
[07:17:54] <_methods> goat pranks
[07:19:00] <minibnz> when you start adding multiple fibers thats when it gets fun.. i saw one the other day that does ribbon fibers. 40strands fused in one pass...
[07:20:12] <minibnz> when i did my course we were shown how to make multiplexors and such but their fusion splicer was crap at it, it wouldn't hold more than three fibers...
[07:54:16] <miss0r> if anyone for whatever reason has a post-processor for the philips 432 cnc controller, I am all ears here. Preferably for mastercam, but solidworks will do
[07:57:13] <minibnz> HSM express for solidworks pumps out gcode from your models. i dunno if its compatible with your 432 though..
[08:05:51] <miss0r> somebody out there must surely use mastercam for the 432 processor. I just can't seem to find anyone
[08:11:17] <_methods> just modify your machine definition for a standard 3 axis vmc
[08:12:17] <miss0r> sure. I will, however, spend a little more search time trying to avoid manual labour
[08:12:48] <_methods> just go in there and change the y and z axis
[08:12:52] <_methods> it's pretty simple
[08:13:22] <miss0r> indeed. But I think theres more to it than that
[08:13:41] <_methods> you could always just cheat and use a text editor to change all y's to z's and all z's to y's lol
[08:13:48] <miss0r> I know just enough about this, to know, that I, infact, know very little
[08:14:01] <miss0r> yeah, that is just cheating
[08:14:17] <_methods> hold on i have to finish a couple drawings and i'll kick out a modified .mmd that should work for you
[08:14:26] <_methods> then you can use a standard 3 axis vmc post
[08:15:13] * miss0r applauds _methods
[08:15:20] <miss0r> Thanks
[08:29:25] <_methods> oh .mmd is mill machine definition
[08:29:30] <_methods> .lmd is lathe machine definition
[08:29:36] <_methods> .rmd router
[08:29:39] <_methods> .wmd wire edm
[08:30:06] <archivist> you could just hand code and not use lazy cam :)
[08:31:02] <miss0r> archivist, true. If simple forms are all that I want to do, it will be fine :)
[08:32:13] <archivist> inside rear of skull cam
[08:33:09] <archivist> for certain shapes and machines it is the easier
[08:34:30] <miss0r> basic g-coding by hand it quite easy, even for me. but real 3D stuff and helix bores'n stuff is somewhat hard/time consuming to do
[08:35:18] <archivist> I do helix paths by having a rotary :)
[08:35:46] <miss0r> I don't have one on my machine ;)
[08:35:54] <archivist> helps to be using a control like linuxcnc as well :)
[08:36:31] <miss0r> yea yea yea.... I will probaly get around to changing the controller at some point, when I am sickened enough by the lack of internal memory in the controller
[08:37:07] <miss0r> I do, however, have a manual rotary table. not sure how to incorporate me cranking a handle in the code ;)
[08:37:41] <archivist> a helix is a one liner with linuxcnc as is a the other method in linixcnc that does not use a rotary
[08:37:41] <_methods> https://www.dropbox.com/s/v4i033broz6zodh/MAHO%20-%203AXIS%20VMC%20MM.MMD?dl=0
[08:37:47] <_methods> try that .mmd miss0r
[08:39:38] <miss0r> trying...
[08:39:41] <_methods> k
[08:40:36] <_methods> oh what version of mcam are you using?
[08:40:57] <_methods> i'm using x4 so hopefully that mmd will work for whatever version you're using
[08:42:35] <miss0r> i'm using x5. I just had to add -5 at the end of the file name. Then it seemed to load fine
[08:42:44] <_methods> k
[08:44:26] <miss0r> _methods, Where can I change stuff in this post processor? like - I want M66, not M6
[08:45:17] <_methods> you'll have to edit that in the post processor
[08:45:41] <miss0r> is there and some software for that?
[08:45:46] <_methods> text editor
[08:45:53] <miss0r> alright
[08:46:25] <miss0r> hmm. what text editor? :) notepad/wordpad just shows unknows characters
[08:48:14] <_methods> not the .mmd
[08:48:19] <_methods> you have to edit the post processor
[08:48:22] <_methods> different file
[08:48:33] <miss0r> doh.. ofc.
[08:48:58] <_methods> should be in mcamx>mill>posts
[08:49:01] <_methods> or something liek that
[08:51:20] <miss0r> that looks doable. Thanks for the help. unfortunatly family duty calls now.
[08:51:25] <_methods> k
[08:51:32] <miss0r> I'll be back (you know the accent)
[08:51:39] <_methods> hehe
[09:11:51] <TurBoss> Hi
[09:12:33] <TurBoss> I have a question. if i have 2 servo motors per axis (Y) how i setup the encoders to each axis?
[09:12:47] <TurBoss> is posile in first place
[09:12:49] <TurBoss> ?
[09:13:17] <Sync> yes
[09:13:21] <TurBoss> fine
[09:13:45] <TurBoss> where itold axis i mean motor
[09:14:33] <Sync> ok, so what do you want to do, have a spindle with two motors or two spindles on one axis with two motors?
[09:15:25] <TurBoss> one axis with 2 motors
[09:15:35] <TurBoss> for the leadscrews
[09:16:14] <TurBoss> is for the table one leadscrew in both sides
[09:16:18] <archivist> look at gantrykins and its homing sequence
[09:16:35] <TurBoss> ok ty
[09:17:36] <Sync> leadscrews, so two screws?
[09:17:46] <Sync> a lot of people just run a belt between them
[09:17:51] <TurBoss> ahmmm
[09:17:58] <TurBoss> sound fine and cheaper
[09:18:09] <Sync> no, with two motors, of course
[09:18:18] <TurBoss> yes yes
[09:19:05] <TurBoss> so one motor and a belt joining the 2 screws?
[09:19:17] <Sync> no
[09:19:23] <Sync> two motors, two screws and a belt
[09:19:41] <TurBoss> and the belt joinin the 2 screws? xD
[09:20:14] <TurBoss> no
[09:20:26] <TurBoss> i think :D
[09:20:58] <Renny> I also have a vaguely CNC related question.
[09:21:16] <Sync> yes TurBoss
[09:21:31] <TurBoss> ty Sync
[09:22:01] <Renny> Can you run a small CNC something with the more powerful NEMA17s, or do you have to use bigger motors?
[09:22:28] <Sync> that depends on what small means and what powerful means
[09:23:02] <archivist> having larger steppers means a bit slower, but less likely to lose steps
[09:23:17] <archivist> so depends
[09:24:12] <Renny> I see.
[09:24:42] <Renny> Sync, like 2 amp motors and a desktop lathe.
[09:25:27] <Sync> "2 amp motor" has no meaning, torque and speed has one
[09:26:31] <Sync> my gut feeling says, probably
[09:33:19] <archivist> I like to err on the larger side, because shit happens
[09:34:22] <archivist> slower cutting is not much of a problem, step loss is a damaged part
[09:58:50] <Magnifikus> if anyone wants tickets for hannover messe i got 2 invites for free left
[10:00:30] <Jymmm> farfignutan
[10:00:42] <CaptHindsight> other meaningless terms often used in machine specs: robust, proactive, best-of-breed, next-generation, synergistic
[10:00:52] <Jymmm> maybe Loetmichel might like the invites, he's in .de
[10:02:36] <CaptHindsight> Fahrvergnügen was often pronounced as fart-fig-newton in the US
[10:03:09] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOnne-90CLI 1990 VW ad
[10:03:43] <Jymmm> ...and also ad-lib'ed as "fucken-groovin"
[10:23:41] <CaptHindsight> could the average DIYer be expected to cast 4 similar pieces? http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=38035&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1389508276
[10:25:11] <archivist> does the average diy have a vibrator to consolidate it properly
[10:25:36] <CaptHindsight> <$20 sander
[10:26:56] <archivist> DC motor, battery and a weight bolted on
[10:27:25] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMu8ubi-ptc the router would be similar
[10:28:08] <Jymmm> What about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epoxy_granite
[10:28:15] <CaptHindsight> oh, better video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8vlOa2Y34s
[10:29:11] <CaptHindsight> except for mach3
[10:29:56] <archivist> I was about to moan about the maaaaaach interlude
[10:30:50] <CaptHindsight> trade more travel in Y for ease of assembly, stability and alignment
[10:31:07] <archivist> biggest problem is setting the axes at 90 to each other
[10:32:03] <archivist> seems some struggle to measure and control that
[10:32:58] <CaptHindsight> thought about putting together a cheap laser pointer alignment system
[10:35:20] <Sync> CaptHindsight: why? you need a dti and an angle anyway
[10:35:28] <Sync> so eh
[10:38:56] <CaptHindsight> the most I can see while making it somewhat idiot proof is shipping aligned and mostly assembled and the base gets filled with epoxy granite by the user to save on shipping
[10:43:06] <Sync> yeah that is about the only way
[10:43:21] <CaptHindsight> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=140701&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1389526442 shipped hollow
[10:46:42] <Sync> well if you want to hold any meaningful alignment it will have to be resonably thick
[10:46:46] <Sync> and that means heavy
[10:47:43] <CaptHindsight> it would be shipped ~80% hollow
[10:48:21] <CaptHindsight> it would show up either aligned or cracked
[10:51:48] <_methods> so are epoxy cnc's like the new "thing" or something?
[10:52:47] <CaptHindsight> maybe, I was just considering how one might offer a small low cost precision router/mill
[10:53:19] <_methods> i was just wondering i've seen quite a few people talking about them
[10:53:30] <_methods> not meaning your line of enquiry in particular
[10:53:31] <sc00fy> and how?
[10:53:44] <CaptHindsight> so the 6040 80/20 nonsense in here might stop
[10:53:49] <_methods> hahah
[10:53:55] <_methods> i dont' think anything can stop stupid
[10:54:22] <CaptHindsight> yeah, I get reminded as soon as I look at the news
[10:54:40] <sc00fy> why do you look at the news? :)
[10:54:49] <_methods> masochism
[10:55:00] <sc00fy> what is 'news' anyways? information about stupid people doing stupid things, mostly
[10:55:09] <CaptHindsight> it's not really the news
[10:55:24] <_methods> well i don't want to read about my neighbors gardening achievements
[10:55:37] <sc00fy> don't make him your facebook friend, then
[10:55:44] <_methods> hehe
[10:55:54] <_methods> i don't have facebook
[10:56:00] <_methods> so that won't be an issue
[10:56:01] <CaptHindsight> 8 ft melons, details at 6
[10:56:37] <CaptHindsight> how your home might be hiding a secret killer, more at 10
[10:56:56] <_methods> commercialbait
[10:56:57] <_methods> lol
[10:57:04] <_methods> the original click bait
[11:04:11] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/151569347067 6040 Box-o-router parts $750 without motors but with bearings and screws
[11:04:38] <_methods> +$400 shipping
[11:04:42] <CaptHindsight> ouch + $350 shipping
[11:04:50] <_methods> lol
[11:05:03] <CaptHindsight> ah they all end up ~$1k with shipping
[11:05:15] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/172035690751
[11:06:04] <_methods> i think i might get one of those
[11:06:26] <DaViruz> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsK4QOwig4o
[11:06:32] <DaViruz> now that's a pretty sturdy router
[11:06:39] <DaViruz> i like the tool magazines
[11:06:39] <CaptHindsight> what are the selling the the 6040 screw and bearing kits for?
[11:07:06] <_methods> no idea
[11:07:24] <_methods> http://www.ebay.com/itm/USA-Delivery-Free-shipping-6040-CNC-Router-Milling-Drilling-Frame-Machine-Kit-/272190132387?hash=item3f5fcbd0a3:g:lA8AAOSwHgVW66QZ
[11:07:28] <_methods> $889 free shipping
[11:07:46] <Sync> DaViruz: it is not really router
[11:08:33] <Sync> it's more of a toolroom mill than a router
[11:08:47] <_methods> also has a sturdy price tag
[11:08:48] <DaViruz> whatever it is i want one ;)
[11:09:10] <CaptHindsight> ~$400 for screw and bearing kits
[11:09:13] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-set-SBR16-linear-rail-ballscrew-RM1605-350-900-1200mm-BK-BF12-end-bearing-CNC-/181289092914?
[11:09:30] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SBR16-300-1300-1300mm-linear-rail-set-3-ballscrew-RM1605-BK-BF12-end-bearing-CNC-/171207751961
[11:13:34] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/USA-Delivery-Free-shipping-6040-CNC-Router-Milling-Drilling-Frame-Machine-Kit-/272190132387 $900 and has threads on the ends of the ballscrews
[11:13:51] <_methods> not bad
[11:14:03] <CaptHindsight> I think I was paying close to that for poorly assembled smaller versions with motors
[11:14:05] <_methods> the one i linked didn't have the screws threaded?
[11:14:12] <CaptHindsight> same link
[11:14:41] <_methods> oh
[11:14:42] <_methods> lol
[11:15:33] <JT-Shop> insert boot disk into A... doesn't look good
[11:15:47] <CaptHindsight> that kit with steel vs aluminum gantry would be much stiffer
[11:17:20] <CaptHindsight> LOL PVC version for $420 http://www.ebay.com/itm/US-4-axis-PVC-Frame-CNC-Router-Engraving-Milling-Carving-Machine-300W-for-Wood/131754640733
[11:21:34] <archivist> spastic cnc
[11:22:11] <archivist> rub your stock gently, cutting costs extra
[11:23:13] <Frank__10> guys any of you uses profile linear rails? like hiwin
[11:23:16] <archivist> even finnier is the default power voltage and you have to fix it yourself
[11:23:36] <archivist> Frank__10, I have some on my machine
[11:24:36] <Frank__10> i am installing mine (25mm 2.4mts) and i have some threaded holes that arent quite straight, is this your case by any chance?
[11:25:07] <Frank__10> makes me want to sell the hole machine already
[11:25:35] <archivist> I was careful, so no :)
[11:26:34] <Frank__10> how long is your longest rail?
[11:27:05] <archivist> about 40 cm
[11:28:00] <CaptHindsight> CF shell rigid enough to stay aligned for shipping that the end user fills with epoxy granite might be another option
[11:28:26] <Frank__10> lol
[11:28:37] <Frank__10> thats my shortest; its not fair!
[11:28:56] <Frank__10> althought mine isnt as rigid as yours for sure
[11:29:28] <CaptHindsight> Frank__10: are they Hiwin rails or some no name?
[11:29:49] <archivist> I have a couple on Z and recently added a couple more on x
[11:29:55] <Frank__10> i've read around the web that a 0.5 angle of joint face reduces fatigue life in half
[11:29:56] <Frank__10> T:T
[11:29:57] <Frank__10> T_T
[11:30:00] <Frank__10> they are hiwin
[11:30:54] <Sync> not suprising Frank__10
[11:30:57] <Frank__10> i will never ever hand drill holes that need to be straight
[11:31:01] <Frank__10> i hate myself
[11:31:01] <Sync> as it concentrates the force in one spot
[11:31:16] <Sync> why not, just use a tapping block
[11:31:21] <archivist> I used machined flat for the new X mounting so was all flat, just a question of getting holes in the right places for mounting
[11:31:56] <Frank__10> yeah, surprisingly holes fit, but some, have a certain angle to it
[11:32:26] <archivist> re tap but lean the tap to correct it
[11:33:24] <archivist> a good sharp tap will just about side cut enough for minor error
[11:34:26] <archivist> worth making a tapping block when doing a lot
[11:35:27] * JT-Shop wonders how to configure a 256MB flash module in a 386?
[11:36:06] <t12> man the arduinofication of things
[11:36:08] <t12> is so annoying
[11:36:10] <cradek> you mean as a disk?
[11:36:14] <archivist> do it in something else then transfer
[11:36:22] <t12> https://punchthrough.com/bean
[11:36:28] <t12> someone takes a bt + 8051 SOC
[11:36:38] <t12> and bolts an atmega to it cuz arduino
[11:36:38] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: USB flash drive of CF (compact flash) ?
[11:36:44] <Jymmm> or*
[11:36:45] <cradek> if it has ide, a CF-to-ide adapter might work
[11:36:57] <Frank__10> thanks for the inputtttt
[11:37:00] <JT-Shop> 40-pin IDE flash drive
[11:37:15] <Jymmm> Oh, a disk-on-a-chip?
[11:37:26] <Jymmm> does it have a power cable sticking out of it?
[11:37:47] <JT-Shop> yea, the CRC says not installed so I need to use type 47 and spell it out
[11:37:50] <JT-Shop> yea
[11:38:15] <Jymmm> Is there an "Auto" setting in the BIOS?
[11:38:37] <JT-Shop> I'd have to check, I didn't see one
[11:38:39] <cradek> 1024 cyl 64 heads cross your fingers and take whatever size you get?
[11:38:59] <JT-Shop> wow I found the manual for it
[11:42:22] <CaptHindsight> t12: AoT = Arduino of Things
[11:43:35] <Loetmichel> Magnifikus: hannover messe is boring
[11:43:45] <Loetmichel> to me at least
[11:44:16] <t12> lol
[11:44:36] <t12> startup fake MVP mockup (of things)
[11:44:50] <Magnifikus> looking for a job maybe :P
[11:45:11] <t12> MVP where the product is your sweet VC dollars coming into our bank account
[11:45:28] <CaptHindsight> *duino everything, PC, TV, Phone, remote, thermostat, door bell, etc
[11:46:02] <t12> is there an arduino that gives you an api into sand hill road txns
[11:46:07] <JT-Shop> by golly it booted up and worked, now what made the CRC die?
[11:46:26] <Loetmichel> maaan. what do i do wrong... third car repair shop (the first two didnt find the fault)... repaired the car for nearly 4k€... jut paid and got the keys back-> no acceleration, radio/satnav blinks at me with "radio safe" and the steering wheel is about 15° turned left when you drive in a straight line. Is it to much to expect premium work for a premium price???
[11:46:40] <cradek> you checked the battery?
[11:47:03] <JT-Shop> going to see if I can find one
[11:47:36] <archivist> Loetmichel, sign of tracking forgotten
[11:48:11] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: yes, shut up and pay is what they want
[11:48:45] <CaptHindsight> either the workmanship or the parts are crap
[11:49:13] <archivist> steering off is poor workmanship
[11:49:18] <CaptHindsight> so I end up having to do it all myself if i want it done right
[11:49:54] <CaptHindsight> that was the worst part of living anywhere that you couldn't work on vehicles
[11:50:21] <archivist> the tool to keep the wheel pointing straight ahead is cheap and simple
[11:50:35] <JT-Shop> I see a blue can that has + and - on it looks to be soldered on the main board
[11:51:24] <CaptHindsight> I once swapped a transmission in factory parking lot on a Sunday
[11:52:24] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: "can" ?
[11:52:27] <CaptHindsight> anything to avoid having to waste money on a shop full of monkeys doing it
[11:53:25] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: It might take me a while, but I can see if I can find my DOC ans see if it wants 5v, 12v, or both if you like.
[11:53:29] <archivist> JT-Shop, "can" often means electolytic capacitor, what is the legend on the board by it
[11:53:31] <JT-Shop> that's what it looks like, didn't see a "coin" battery on it
[11:53:46] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop what MB did you get recently?
[11:53:47] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: pic?
[11:53:51] <JT-Shop> let me see if I can read it
[11:54:02] <JT-Shop> kinda hard to see it
[11:54:06] <cradek> JT-Shop: yeah, we need a photo, but that's probably it. they were usually by the keyboard plug.
[11:54:22] * archivist offers the zoom microscope
[11:54:51] <Tom_itx> caps are noted for being one of the first things to go
[11:55:04] <archivist> seen NiCd in blue shrink wrap on old boards
[11:56:02] <cradek> heh the 386 motherboard on my shelf has a missing battery and an outline marked BT1 right by the keyboard plug
[11:56:04] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: By this photo, it wants 5V http://img.dxcdn.com/productimages/sku_55351_1.jpg
[11:56:25] <JT-Shop> yusa memory power on the
[11:57:01] <cradek> usually there is a 4 pin header to plug in an aftermarket battery. you just sidecutter or desolder the original
[11:57:21] <JT-Shop> I might have to pull the main board to see
[11:57:23] <cradek> take your time machine to your local computer shop in 1994 to get one
[11:57:35] <archivist> and dont leave and old battery in a pc http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2007/2007_04_21_IBM_RT_6151_computer/P4213053.JPG
[11:57:38] <Jymmm> cradek++++
[11:58:09] <Tom_itx> and pay 4x what you could get it today for
[11:58:10] <Jymmm> cradek: Hey, did you ever complete your bus renovation?
[11:58:19] <cradek> yeah, years ago
[11:58:25] <Tom_itx> hippie van?
[11:58:28] <cradek> archivist: wowww
[11:58:29] <CaptHindsight> archivist: that was the tamper evident coating
[11:58:33] <DaViruz> don't leave an old backup battery in a siemens cnc controller either :(
[11:58:36] <Jymmm> cradek: Would you ever do it again?
[11:58:45] <DaViruz> ..though that was slightly worse!
[11:58:51] <cradek> Jymmm: if I needed a bus converted into an RV, sure I'd do it again
[11:59:25] <Jymmm> cradek: Ok, totally worth it then?
[11:59:37] <CaptHindsight> wow through hole mainboard and cards
[12:00:01] <ssi> marn
[12:00:16] <_methods> ssi: is alive
[12:00:38] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: and 74LS chips too!!!
[12:00:39] <CaptHindsight> 1985 date codes
[12:00:56] <CaptHindsight> those wee the days
[12:01:03] <CaptHindsight> wee/were
[12:01:46] <CaptHindsight> 12ga sheet metal chassis
[12:01:59] <cradek> you can just see the wire-wrap rework on that floppy drive
[12:02:17] <ssi> _methods: indeed! :D
[12:02:25] <_methods> how goes the new job
[12:02:28] <ssi> it's awesome
[12:02:46] <_methods> nice
[12:02:46] <ssi> everything is awesome
[12:03:00] <ssi> except the fact that I have all that crap back in atlanta that I don't want to deal with
[12:03:28] <_methods> i thought you weren't relocating?
[12:03:35] <ssi> I don't have to
[12:03:41] <ssi> but I want to :P
[12:03:45] <_methods> hahah
[12:03:52] <CaptHindsight> bite the bullet, sell and move on
[12:04:01] <ssi> CaptHindsight: you're right
[12:04:09] <CaptHindsight> you'll feel better
[12:04:16] <archivist> or move the crap
[12:04:21] <ssi> anyone want to buy a bunch of half-finished cnc machines? :D
[12:04:40] <_methods> hahah
[12:04:43] <jdh> finally moving west?
[12:04:44] <CaptHindsight> ssi: maybe the CNC punchpress
[12:04:47] <_methods> if i had the room i'd probably take you up on that
[12:04:51] <ssi> CaptHindsight: come get it
[12:04:53] <ssi> you can have it
[12:04:55] <DaViruz> yeah, i don't have enough of those ;)
[12:05:43] <ssi> archivist: definitely not moving the crap. Nowhere to put it out here without paying all the money in the world, not to mention that trucking 50,000lb of machines 2400 miles isn't cheap
[12:06:51] <archivist> fly it :)
[12:07:05] <Sync> just put it in your garage
[12:07:11] <ssi> what garage
[12:07:36] <Sync> there is your problem
[12:07:48] <ssi> of course
[12:07:54] <ssi> that's the primary drawback with moving west
[12:08:04] <ssi> I'm going to be renting a bedroom for more than my house and four hangars back home
[12:08:06] <CaptHindsight> ssi: what size one way u-haul trailer will it need? I might be up for a road trip
[12:08:23] <ssi> CaptHindsight: it's not super big, but it's not light
[12:08:27] <Loetmichel> ssi: seriously? you have 22 metric tons of unfinished CNC projects?
[12:08:29] <ssi> maybe 3klb?
[12:08:35] <CaptHindsight> not bad
[12:08:48] <ssi> Loetmichel: that might have been a slight exaggeration... one of them is 10klb, the others are significantly lighter but there's a few of them
[12:08:51] <ssi> maybe 25klb
[12:09:10] <CaptHindsight> I wanted to go to Gettysburg anyway, just another day south
[12:09:25] <ssi> CaptHindsight: I can have someone meet you at the hangar and deal with it
[12:09:28] <ssi> there's a forklift there to load
[12:09:36] <CaptHindsight> easy peasy
[12:10:25] <CaptHindsight> ssi: are you staying in CA?
[12:10:32] <ssi> for awhile at least
[12:10:35] <ssi> definitely thru the end of april
[12:10:36] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/images/discovery-308/memo%20battery.jpg
[12:10:47] <JT-Shop> that's the battery or cap
[12:11:20] <ssi> oh the forklift is another 10klb, so yeah at least 35klb
[12:11:38] <ssi> not that that is an unfinished cnc project, but it would have to go on the truck
[12:11:50] <CaptHindsight> snip it out close to the battery, solder new in place
[12:12:24] <ssi> yea it's a battery
[12:12:36] <CaptHindsight> ssi: what does it cost to park the plane there per day/week?
[12:12:44] <ssi> CaptHindsight: right now I'm paying $100/mo
[12:12:49] <ssi> I need to talk to him and see if I can extend
[12:12:53] <ssi> right now I'm there thru next weekend
[12:18:13] <jdh> got a lathe?
[12:18:19] <ssi> a few :P
[12:20:32] <CaptHindsight> ssi: the old house all back in shape?
[12:21:02] <ssi> I still have to find a contractor to rebuild the decks :/
[12:21:11] <CaptHindsight> whats the house market in Atlanta like currently?
[12:21:30] <Sync> how are you going to live without a shop ssi? :P
[12:21:51] <CaptHindsight> yeah 1 week project for good contractor, but how do you find one?
[12:21:51] <ssi> techshop :P
[12:22:07] <ssi> I dunno... I had a guy that was supposed to go look at it but I never heard back
[12:23:46] <Sync> well, that's not really an option, is it?
[12:23:53] <Sync> no half assed cnc projects :P
[12:25:27] <ssi> lol I don't need any more half assed cnc projects right now
[12:25:38] <Sync> pfft
[12:25:48] <ssi> what I've thought about doing is consolidating down to one or two hangars and just treating it like a storage unit
[12:27:03] <ssi> ok cool, contractor is going to try to get up there to look at the house next week
[12:28:25] <Sync> yeah, why not
[12:28:32] <Sync> I mean, it is cheap enough apparently
[12:28:49] <ssi> yeah I can keep the one end hangar for $400/mo, or two for $550
[12:43:41] <pink_vampire> hi
[12:50:19] <CaptHindsight> http://gizmodo.com/study-people-who-point-out-typos-are-jerks-1767969516
[12:50:39] <CaptHindsight> "According to a bunch of fancy linguists, people who are more sensitive to written typos and grammatical errors are indeed the kinds of Type A assholes everyone already suspects them to be."
[12:51:32] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: assholes *that* everyone already suspects to be.
[12:51:36] <FinboySlick> ;)
[12:51:58] <ssi> :D
[12:52:13] <CaptHindsight> http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0149885
[12:56:08] <archivist> I had an A hole email about a couple ov tyops on a website I maintain, I fix them and wait for the next free spell check :)
[12:56:24] <CaptHindsight> heh
[12:56:35] <CaptHindsight> freelance editors
[12:57:12] <djdelorie> "excuse me, but you spelled anal retentive wrong"
[12:57:37] <CaptHindsight> neurotic, arrogant and controlling
[12:58:10] <CaptHindsight> sounds like a politician, school teacher/admin
[13:03:48] <maxcnc> hi all
[13:03:51] <sc00fy> or just want your webpage to look good. they care about you!
[13:04:18] <malcom2073> It's all to make themselves feel better, not at all to help the person they're correcting
[13:04:31] <maxcnc> Nice day in germany
[13:04:46] <maxcnc> tomorrow we first hit the 20deg C mark
[13:06:24] <CaptHindsight> malcom2073: you mean that some people put others down in order to make themselves appear to be better?
[13:07:47] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: As the head troll in the room, you should be more than aware of that :P
[13:08:43] <Loetmichel> maxcnc: HR1 radio forecast said 28°C tormorrow in one city!
[13:08:47] <CaptHindsight> don't be so humble
[13:09:19] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: did you get much snow this winter?
[13:10:19] <maxcnc> Loetmichel: not in our region north to muich
[13:10:44] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: exactly 0 flakes
[13:11:07] <_methods> hahah
[13:11:11] <archivist> heh just thing of that head troll term, just had to do my first kickban of a troll this year
[13:11:19] <archivist> thinking
[13:18:51] <CaptHindsight> has anyone made a nozzle array for FDM say 1x10 or staggered 2x5 in order to fill faster?
[13:19:35] <CaptHindsight> or just FDM the shell and fill with 2k resin?
[13:24:22] <JT-Shop> is there a way to load a program by scanning a bar code?
[13:25:13] <cradek> some barcode scanners just type the thing you scan into the "keyboard"
[13:26:26] <JT-Shop> hmmm
[13:29:58] <maxcnc> GN8
[13:32:09] <archivist> JT-Shop, my barcode scanner although on usb pretends to be a usual kb
[13:32:44] <archivist> which is why when I forget to change focus EF426
[13:32:55] <archivist> you see a barcide :)
[13:35:35] <JT-Shop> I wonder if you can load a program into axis from say classicladder?
[13:35:54] <JT-Shop> or a M1xx
[13:35:59] <evil_ren> archivist: does it put a ret at the end?
[13:36:07] <evil_ren> i feel like there should be a dip switch for that
[13:36:23] <archivist> evil_ren, a configurable option of some scanners
[13:36:41] <cradek> JT-Shop: no to both of those
[13:37:08] <archivist> mine has barcodes in a manual that actually configure it
[13:37:16] <cradek> axis-remote can do it, though, if linuxcnc is in the right mode
[13:38:05] <archivist> its the program focus and the info going to the right box, or use an rs232 scanner
[13:41:25] <JT-Shop> I could run axis-remote from a python script I think...
[13:42:39] <archivist> I assume this is a production line part identification thing
[13:42:50] <JT-Shop> yes
[13:43:35] <archivist> I would probably do the barcode outside and just replace the gcode file with a fixed name and tell the machine to go
[13:45:34] <JT-Shop> axis-remote -p doesn't return anything, do I need to do something special
[13:46:03] <archivist> might wand the gcode itself to identify the part so it is sure it can start machining
[13:47:09] <cradek> JT-Shop: I'm sure it just returns the result: axis-remote -p; echo $?
[13:47:37] <archivist> some readers can scan all the time, some like mine need triggering to scan
[13:53:20] <JT-Shop> thanks, I see it returns 0 for yes and 1 for no
[13:54:16] <cradek> sure, that lets you write in the shell something like if axis-remote -p; then axis-remote the-file-i-want; fi
[13:54:35] <JT-Shop> ok, cool
[13:54:36] <SpeedEvil> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/03/30/uk-industry-rocked-as-tata-confirms-plan-to-offload-steel-busine/
[13:54:38] <SpeedEvil> Anyone want a rolling mill
[13:55:16] <Not-Renny> I want a thing that can make other things.
[13:55:27] <Not-Renny> I literally just want all the things that can make other things
[13:55:56] <archivist> you just need a brain to drive your hands
[13:56:33] <SpeedEvil> Minions!
[13:57:02] <archivist> a brain and hand tools can achieve a lot
[13:57:06] <Not-Renny> Mine doesn't do so well at that and it'll probably start to get noticeable in about 30 years :l
[13:57:36] <Not-Renny> Well, I do already have plenty of hand tools, and hand-workable materials.
[13:57:55] <Not-Renny> But I can't really make a diesel engine with those :P
[13:58:37] <CaptHindsight> look at them acting all posh and all surprised at what's been happening to the steel industry...
[14:19:10] <Polymorphism> are there some decent options for 2d/3d cad and CAM sotware
[14:19:23] <Polymorphism> hopefully linux compatible
[14:27:58] <Polymorphism> freecad -> pycam -> linuxcnc?
[14:38:55] <Meduza> Anyone in here that have tried the "budget" closed loop stepper servo systems from china?
[14:39:30] <Sync> they are okay Meduza
[14:40:10] <Polymorphism> would yuou get those? or 384oz nema 23
[14:41:43] <Meduza> So, wich one have you tried? I am rebuilding my router table to use dual X axis screws, so i need to buy one more Geckodrive G201 and one more 3Nm Nema23 to keep the configuration, but on the other hand the closed loop systems does look very intresting :-)
[14:44:23] <Sync> I had one of the leadshine units at work, not sure which one
[14:45:09] <Polymorphism> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xz4LCIJyd2A&t=7m45s
[14:45:12] <Polymorphism> why does everyone like that video?
[14:45:16] <Polymorphism> "prtetyty nice huh?"
[14:45:21] <Polymorphism> that board wouldbnt even function would it?
[14:47:26] <Polymorphism> components on bottom right look liek they would be shorting to each other
[14:47:30] <Polymorphism> with how sloppy those holes are
[14:47:54] <Polymorphism> I'll be absolutely furious if I spend $2500and end up with results like that
[14:49:32] <Polymorphism> not to mention he says the top left didnt mill right
[14:49:41] <Polymorphism> shit fixturing or should have checked z all overr
[14:50:02] <Polymorphism> all of these people commenting how informative it is, etc
[14:50:09] <Polymorphism> its a video about how to make a non-functional pcb
[14:51:56] <DaViruz> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URtU1XImjWE
[14:52:03] <DaViruz> this guy isn't screwing around
[15:01:13] <_methods> that's a lot of concrete
[15:03:29] <malcom2073> I like those linear rail covers
[15:09:38] <malcom2073> Man check out his other build videos, made a spindle from scratch too
[15:10:58] <malcom2073> And moulded his own table, then took it to a forge to get it poured
[15:10:59] <malcom2073> damn
[15:18:05] <DaViruz> malcom2073: yeah, i'm quite impressed
[15:19:28] <DaViruz> sadly he hasn't updated for quite a while
[15:20:00] <DaViruz> finding awesome projects that's died is sad
[15:21:01] <malcom2073> Maybe he finished it, and is too busy making stuff on it? heh. Can hope
[15:21:34] <DaViruz> i hope so
[15:24:41] <Meduza> Sync: and it works well?
[15:24:57] <Meduza> Would you choose over a traditional setup with a geckodrive and a open loop stepper?
[15:25:19] <Sync> it is most certainly better than an openloop stepper
[15:28:56] <Meduza> Sync: right now i only have open loop stepper machines, no servo machines unfortuenatly
[15:29:15] <Meduza> but especially when doing dual-motor-dual-screw it seems very attractive with closed loop stepper
[15:32:30] <Meduza> i am looking at buying something in the max 250$ per motor+driver pricerange
[15:45:03] <witnit> meduza what size motor?
[15:45:42] <Meduza> Nema 23 or 34, dosent really matter since i have to mill out new motor mounts anyways...
[15:45:57] <Meduza> i am driving 25mm screws with 5mm pitch
[15:46:05] <Meduza> and want to do decent speeds
[15:46:22] <Meduza> so maybe 2000rpm max (10m/min)
[15:47:32] <Meduza> witnit: ^
[15:47:55] <Meduza> https://www.dropbox.com/s/xbhjewtyhejioif/2014-09-14%2002_27_10-Portalfr%C3%A4sen.skp%20-%20SketchUp%20Pro.png?dl=0
[15:47:59] <Meduza> the machine looks like that
[15:48:05] <Meduza> 800x1000mm work area
[15:48:44] <witnit> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sanyo-Denki-Servo-Motor-L720-039E84-/121934976232?hash=item1c63e414e8:g:jj4AAOSwQjNW9Fxb
[15:49:04] <witnit> I had some descent luck with some finds like that in the past, often the encoder is already attached
[15:49:13] <Meduza> yes, but the drivers are often crazy expensive...
[15:49:16] <witnit> if you do go that route
[15:49:17] <witnit> nah
[15:49:18] <CaptHindsight> http://machinedesign.com/motorsdrives/how-pick-motors-linear-motion
[15:49:23] <witnit> 30 bucks used ebay
[15:49:37] <Meduza> i even have two 500W Yaskawa servos around that could fit the X axis, but drivers that fit are 500-1000$ each
[15:49:52] <CaptHindsight> http://machinedesign.com/motorsdrives/choosing-step-motor-real-example
[15:50:37] <witnit> I use alot of stuff like this tho Meduza http://www.ebay.com/itm/COPLEY-CONTROLS-Model-403-DC-Brush-Servo-Amplifier-/182062410168?hash=item2a63c3e9b8:g:iVUAAOSwAuNW8Euw
[15:51:02] <witnit> pretty cheap, common and easy to work with mesa controls for me
[15:54:59] <Meduza> witnit: that seems to be too hard to be honest, when i have looked at closing the servo loop in linuxcnc and manage to tune the whole system i always look back towards steppers or i know that my project never will be done
[15:55:57] <witnit> I completely understand
[15:57:21] <Meduza> i work with 3D printers, so steppers are something i see every day, but when looking at servos it all seems like some kind of black magic with lots of numbers, driver and motor matching and pid parameters :p
[15:57:34] <witnit> its not all that bad
[15:57:58] <witnit> even the old technology where you have to manually tune things, you can figure out with some patients
[15:58:48] <Meduza> when searching for "servo tuning" all that usually shows up is some academic papers with 10 pages that try to explain what algorithm you should use to calculate the parameters
[15:58:51] <Meduza> :p
[15:58:56] <witnit> I would recommend buying a servo amp encoder and motor, set it up on a bench and just try things out when you get a chance.
[16:00:45] <Meduza> i actually just bought a small dc servo drive to drive the spindle for a cnc converted Emco Unimat PC i have where the old drive got fried :-)
[16:00:58] <Meduza> but yes, i probably should get a set to just set up and try it all out
[16:01:13] <Meduza> sometime where i have not a million other projects :p
[16:03:10] <witnit> Like the pots on the amps can be tuned, you just kind of get a feel for it like, finding the sweet spot in a radio station. If you have a any problems the rest can pretty much be done with the linuxcnc built in o-scope.
[16:05:11] <witnit> you should actually be able to read an encoder through your printer port and drive the servo amp unless your encoder starts counting tooo fast then the printer port I think will not keep up
[16:18:23] <witnit> can this be used in place of a larger servo motor? essentially a servo clutch with standard ac motor for power? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io9xPmOqCOU
[16:24:56] <Deejay> gn8
[16:28:38] <malcom2073> witnit: For going in a single direction heh sure
[16:29:27] <malcom2073> That'd just be a velocity servo though, not positional. Unsure how you'd do position without reverseal
[16:29:38] <malcom2073> You could likely use that for your spindle
[16:30:02] <malcom2073> I'm unsure of the benefit over a VFD, energy usage isn't typically a concern for the home user heh
[16:31:47] <witnit> malcom2073: I was thinking about using something like it on a differential
[16:32:05] <malcom2073> differential still only gets you single direction, unless you add a second motor
[16:32:09] <witnit> imagine on big drive motor and say, 6 servo clutches systems
[16:32:26] <malcom2073> Ohh, you mean have a reversing gear running into the second side of the differential, two clutches
[16:32:32] <malcom2073> Sounds damn complicated, but pretty cool :)
[16:32:49] <witnit> yeah, I think there is a huge cost savings vs large servo drives
[16:33:16] <Sync> wat
[16:33:17] <Sync> no
[16:33:18] <malcom2073> Having a single motor + two clutch packs + encoders + differential, vs a single motor + encoder?
[16:33:26] <malcom2073> I would think the single motor + encoder would be cheaper
[16:33:31] <Sync> yes
[16:34:15] <witnit> well, if you got a 55 hp motor and find a way to output with a 5 amp servo system that would be better cost wise than a 55hp servo
[16:34:33] <malcom2073> Huh?
[16:34:47] <malcom2073> Oh we're not talking about cnc machines anymore, are we?
[16:34:52] <witnit> no?
[16:34:55] <CaptHindsight> why not a stepper motor with a 20K:1 ratio gearbox for a spindle?
[16:35:42] <witnit> see the machine I am working with use large motors, they its not like a bridgeport mill
[16:36:01] <malcom2073> Apparently, 55hp is a fairly large servo
[16:36:46] <witnit> relatively?
[16:37:06] <Sync> you can just add an encoder to your async motor and drive it with FOC until almost standstill
[16:37:26] <malcom2073> relative to #linxucnc, yes
[16:38:05] <witnit> well in theory I suppose you could drive it with a diesel engine or maybe the pto of a tractor
[16:43:50] <Polymorphism> lol
[16:46:08] <witnit> ?
[16:46:52] <gregcnc> what are you trying to drive?
[16:47:03] <witnit> multiple large screw machines
[16:47:06] <malcom2073> Reminds me of the old style machines, they all ran off belt drives from a central single motor
[16:47:08] <witnit> in line
[16:47:17] <witnit> malcom2073: exactly
[16:47:27] <witnit> In the past when old shops were driven by belt systems and pulleys were accessable from the ceiling you had a main input coming from a large motor or waterwheel and then each machine was clutched into gear with a lever.
[16:48:05] <CaptHindsight> replaced by electricity
[16:48:44] <malcom2073> Could make sense for that sort of activity, and the differential would allow you to not only have a reversing gear, but independantly control position
[16:49:08] <djdelorie> my lathe still has the leather belt drive, but it only goes to a local motor now...
[16:49:55] <witnit> even in remote areas you could have a high torque high accuracy servo system no matter your input source
[16:49:59] <CaptHindsight> just think of what it would have been like if glue gun printers had been around 100 years ago...
[16:50:16] <witnit> we would be living in a giant lego world
[16:50:18] <witnit> im guessing
[16:50:21] <CaptHindsight> "it's going to obsolete the potters wheel"
[16:51:26] <CaptHindsight> "a device that runs on a small horse that will build your next house"
[16:51:41] <Flipp_> how much does anodizing or powder coating change sizes/tolerances of parts?
[16:52:03] <CaptHindsight> they are different amounts
[16:52:03] <witnit> Flipp_: size of part and quantity is major factors
[16:52:18] <Flipp_> witnit: sure, obviously it's variable
[16:52:24] <CaptHindsight> hard anodize or type II color?
[16:52:31] <witnit> well then how could we possibly answer you?
[16:53:02] <Flipp_> I meant in general. are parts going to change by +/- 0.005"? or are most coatings under, say, 0.001"?
[16:53:03] <malcom2073> Flipp_: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anodizing
[16:53:04] <CaptHindsight> powder coat tends to be a few thou, but the it also depends on how thick you lay it on
[16:53:06] <malcom2073> That gives some thicknesses
[16:53:38] <gregcnc> You spec the thickness you want. each coating has a practical range
[16:54:09] <CaptHindsight> hard is thicker than type II, type II might add 1-2 thou, hardcoat 5-10
[16:54:27] <Flipp_> ah, okay. anodizing looks like it's a few orders of magnitude thinner in general, going by the wiki article
[16:54:31] <CaptHindsight> it also depends on if they etch
[16:54:33] <Flipp_> obviously depends on coating amounts, and such
[16:54:52] <gregcnc> then what are you really asking?
[16:54:56] <CaptHindsight> I know a guy that heard of someone that anodized things
[16:55:11] <CaptHindsight> same for powder coatings
[16:56:00] <CaptHindsight> the particle size for powders is in the few microns
[16:56:02] <Flipp_> gregcnc: just looking to find out the typical thicknesses of each
[16:56:40] <CaptHindsight> depends more on type of powder coat and the application
[16:57:16] <Flipp_> capthindsight: yeah, looks like that from what I can tell. ~50-70um for powder, ~15nm for anodizing
[16:57:17] <CaptHindsight> mil spec might be 100um thickness and ChinaCo lawn furniture 10um
[16:57:48] <Flipp_> cool, thanks
[16:58:17] <CaptHindsight> http://www.midstal.com/sft334/aluminum_reference_guide.pdf
[16:58:51] <Flipp_> ah, perfect!
[16:59:54] <CaptHindsight> http://www.finishing.com/266/99.shtml industry specs for powder coating thickness
[17:00:37] <Polymorphism> zenbot not a word from them after 6 days
[17:00:42] <Polymorphism> omiocnc responds within 1 hour
[17:01:11] <Flipp_> nice, thanks a bunch
[17:02:35] <CaptHindsight> and just FYI hot dip grits are much thicker but don't hold up passed the first wash cycle
[17:09:07] <witnit> Okay THIS is what im talking about https://youtu.be/F6zE__J0YIU?t=64
[17:09:36] <witnit> if I add this to a main and small servo will it work for positioning as expected?
[17:09:50] <malcom2073> two main servos
[17:09:53] <witnit> no
[17:09:57] <malcom2073> That's a hoax
[17:10:07] <witnit> one main for power, and 1 control servo
[17:10:07] <malcom2073> Or rather, clever trickery
[17:10:13] <witnit> trickery?
[17:10:18] <malcom2073> The control servo requires as much power as the main servo
[17:10:25] <witnit> its math
[17:10:27] <malcom2073> It is
[17:12:39] <DaViruz> if we apply that together with cold fusion we basically get free energy.. without magnets even!
[17:12:41] <witnit> doesnt it do what I need? or somehow its not?
[17:12:54] <malcom2073> It's a differential
[17:13:11] <malcom2073> With some planetary gears on either side to make it complex enough to fool people :)
[17:13:21] <witnit> right, but does it reverse?
[17:13:22] <malcom2073> So you'd still need your electromagnetic clutches
[17:13:40] <witnit> but why
[17:13:43] <malcom2073> It's a differential. It does exactly what a differential does
[17:14:08] <witnit> yeah but doesnt still equate the same value as the input power?
[17:14:33] <malcom2073> Yep, output == input - losses
[17:15:17] <witnit> yeah but cost of input of a large ac, 1 directional motor and be controlled by a much smaller servo to control it
[17:15:21] <DaViruz> it sort of does what it says on the box, but only if the main input and control input is of equal power
[17:15:33] <witnit> AND control input?
[17:15:36] <malcom2073> Your directional motor woudl have to be as large as your input, otherwise the input would overpower it and you would get reverse
[17:15:43] <DaViruz> no, the claim that a large power input can be controlled by a small power input is a hoax
[17:15:43] <malcom2073> There *is* no control input. It's literally a differential
[17:15:46] <DaViruz> a lie
[17:15:55] <DaViruz> a false claim
[17:16:09] <witnit> so how is it any different from a regular differential?
[17:16:13] <malcom2073> It's not
[17:16:22] <malcom2073> It's cleverly marketed
[17:16:23] <malcom2073> that's how
[17:17:37] <witnit> i need to keep watching this and see how this is possibly anything but a regular differential
[17:17:47] <malcom2073> witnit: http://www.gizmag.com/d-drive-redux/15120/
[17:18:05] <malcom2073> It's not possibly anything else
[17:18:09] <malcom2073> it's literally, a differential :)
[17:18:10] <DaViruz> how old is that thing now? i think if it had any merit whatsoever it would be in use by now
[17:19:40] <witnit> so they basicly were lying about the "smaller motor"
[17:20:12] <witnit> it was just the torque of the control input is the maximum output of the machine
[17:21:15] <malcom2073> Not lying any more than any other "holy grail" "over unity" etc device on youtube lies....
[17:21:42] <DaViruz> i like how it says he's been working on it for 20 years
[17:21:50] <witnit> :/
[17:21:50] <DaViruz> literally reinventing the wheel :)
[17:22:04] <malcom2073> A great many people work on a great many things that aren't actually great heh
[17:22:06] <Polymorphism> http://untestedprototype.com/category/plans/
[17:22:26] <witnit> I was looking to make some kind of an eddy current kind of clutch to do this job
[17:22:36] <malcom2073> witnit: There's a name for that.....
[17:22:46] <malcom2073> Hysteresis-powered clutch
[17:22:54] <witnit> oooh?
[17:23:02] <witnit> hmmm
[17:23:02] <malcom2073> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_clutch
[17:24:17] <witnit> yes
[17:24:31] <witnit> something like this but is variable
[17:24:55] <witnit> and I can open and close the air gap with a small servo
[17:24:57] <malcom2073> In theory you can vary the slip by varying the magnetic field
[17:25:34] <witnit> I thought i could make an inner/outer sleeve and do some kind of reversing with it
[17:25:53] <malcom2073> That I don't know, maybe a planetary gear inside?
[17:26:01] <witnit> so as it left the one driven inner shaft it would reconnect with the outter driven shaft
[17:26:18] <witnit> less friction would be great
[17:31:36] <witnit> hmm maybe two input motors each with their own hystersis and connect to differential with a pwm cycles to the hystersis's =D
[17:32:21] <witnit> ^ seriously though would that work?
[17:32:54] <witnit> I would probably have to water cool them :)
[17:36:35] <malcom2073> I was thinking one input motor, split to two outputs (think a locked differential), then run through two hystersis, then into the regular differential
[17:37:01] <witnit> that makes more sense
[17:37:43] <malcom2073> Though if you're using the clutches, you don't need the differential at all
[17:38:16] <witnit> but is this an alternative to a large servo?
[17:38:45] <witnit> any input but power but positional output?
[17:39:21] <witnit> err many typos^
[17:40:47] <witnit> there should be something better than a vfd or a giant servo but still have positional output
[17:41:13] <malcom2073> You really need single input two a locke differential giving you two outputs. Have one output go through a reversing (planetary maybe), then both go into a differential
[17:41:22] <malcom2073> would give you directional, forward and reverse on the output of the second differential
[17:42:35] <witnit> well if I had one main motor on a machine which is one directional and I wanted to run six axis of that main without buying six midsize motors can something affordable be exchanged there
[17:43:17] <malcom2073> I still think a single servomotor would be cheaper than two differentials
[17:43:21] <malcom2073> + encoders, + clutches
[17:43:33] <witnit> but drives are so much when you go big
[17:43:45] <malcom2073> Are clutches and differentials in that power range any cheaper?
[17:44:09] <witnit> I could make all the control servos universal and then just beef up the main input and drives
[17:45:08] <witnit> very hard to say im not familiar with the tech
[17:46:13] <malcom2073> Nor am I
[17:46:36] <witnit> there are just so many possibilities if I were able to do it.
[17:47:51] <Polymorphism> "in china, you got what you pay"
[17:48:02] <Polymorphism> now THAT is the customer service nightmare we all fear buying from china
[17:48:15] <witnit> imagine for example cnc lathe could be ran off 110v and 5hp briggs and stratton out in a barn
[17:48:33] <witnit> no need for 3 phase
[17:48:45] <Polymorphism> you could change the world.
[17:48:57] <malcom2073> True, but at that size, you could also just buy somecheap steppers
[17:48:58] <witnit> happens all the time
[17:49:02] <Polymorphism> cncs don't pollute enough. you have solved this problem
[17:49:07] <Polymorphism> well done sir
[17:49:25] <Polymorphism> xD
[17:49:41] <malcom2073> It could be beneficial when you get to higher power levels though, assuming the power transmission components are cheaper than the equivalant servos would be
[17:49:52] <witnit> thats the idea
[17:50:08] <witnit> ntm exotic sources of power
[17:50:18] <witnit> could be a windmill if that suits Polymorphism
[17:50:46] <Polymorphism> in all seriousness, you could be on to something here
[17:50:52] <witnit> without costly phase converters
[17:56:18] <Polymorphism> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quN37YskoaM
[17:56:18] <Polymorphism> LOL
[17:58:45] <Frank__10> indeed
[18:03:18] <Polymorphism> http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/rstory/ interesting
[18:05:35] <witnit> ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20110014746.pdf
[18:05:51] <witnit> his next model should use those gears
[18:06:27] <Polymorphism> @_@
[18:07:08] <Polymorphism> thats the future
[18:07:12] <witnit> shhh
[18:07:16] <witnit> invest wisely
[18:07:25] <Polymorphism> =D
[18:08:41] <Polymorphism> "But in the end, I ended up with accuracy routinely in the vicinity of 0.002 mm for small parts. "
[18:08:47] <Polymorphism> I wonder if thats only possible on that crazy machine he has
[18:14:05] <witnit> I dont even know what measuring device you would use to check other than an optical comparitor
[18:14:13] <witnit> maybe a probe
[18:14:17] <witnit> for microns
[18:14:32] <Polymorphism> microscope maybe
[18:14:44] <Polymorphism> if you had a tiny ruler
[18:14:59] <witnit> i think they call those encoders
[18:15:01] <witnit> :)
[18:15:04] <Polymorphism> looks like they have "reticle rulers" also
[18:15:14] <Polymorphism> they overlay a ruler on the field of view through microscope
[18:15:21] <Polymorphism> I wouldnt doubt he used that, he mentions a microscope
[18:16:04] <Polymorphism> thats not a good keyboard shortcut
[18:17:23] <witnit> I bet he uses these https://youtu.be/0PtDmxGMGrU?t=70
[18:17:57] <malcom2073> Haha, absolutly ok!
[18:18:12] <witnit> but they're brand new
[18:18:14] <witnit> :)
[18:19:10] <Polymorphism> LOL
[18:19:51] <Polymorphism> http://materia.nl/material/tegris/
[18:20:34] <witnit> used for?
[18:21:21] <Polymorphism> not sure, supposed to compete with carbon fiber
[18:21:28] <Polymorphism> was thinking about trying it for a quadcopter frame
[18:21:36] <Polymorphism> looking for carbon fiber alternatives after reading about the dust
[18:22:38] <witnit> I always thought such machines should be designed like suspension bridges
[18:22:57] <witnit> due to weight to strength ratios
[18:26:45] <andypugh> PCW: Have you any idea how _slowly_ you can clock data into a 4x20 LCD? Any idea is 1 nibble per mS would work?
[18:27:01] <Sync> that should probably work
[18:27:40] <witnit> I just bought one of these, it was used though and I payed much less http://goo.gl/UbP2Hq
[18:27:47] <witnit> I reaaly like this one
[18:27:59] <witnit> it can take some seriously heavy cuts
[18:28:21] <andypugh> I thought it should, but it would be a fair bit of write the deriver and then find it wasn’t useful. Especially as I doubt I would use it.
[18:28:23] <malcom2073> andypugh: The LCD datasheet should have a specification for a minimum
[18:28:40] <andypugh> malcom2073: I have been looking, but couldn’t see it
[18:28:52] <malcom2073> Look at the datasheet for the actual driver chip on the lcd?
[18:29:57] <andypugh> witnit: What do you plan on doing with it?
[18:30:25] <andypugh> malcom2073: Thats the datasheets I have been looking at, they are all using the same generic chip.
[18:31:00] <Sync> they all use the hc44xx bla chips
[18:31:35] <malcom2073> Yeah, I thought I recalled them saying a min/max clock speed for data, though I may be thinking for parallel, not SPI
[18:32:02] <andypugh> Yes, 4-bit parallel, typically.
[18:32:04] <andypugh> http://lcd-linux.sourceforge.net/pdfdocs/hd44780.pdf
[18:33:33] <Sync> as they are externally clocked I'd say you can be as slow as you want
[18:34:01] <PCW> I dont think there's a minimum speed but have not tried really slow
[18:35:26] <andypugh> Page 49 of that datasheet says “external clock frequency 125 to 350 kGz. But that probably is something else
[18:39:00] <andypugh> The bus-timing section only has minimums.
[18:41:53] <Polymorphism> http://www.lagunatools.com/cnc/IQ_2 this is a nice looking machine
[18:42:13] <Polymorphism> if I were to increase budget
[18:44:58] <Polymorphism> http://www.tormach.com/product-pcnc-440.html and this
[18:45:04] <Polymorphism> totally different uses though and work area =D
[18:51:17] <andypugh> Polymorphism: Gave you seen https://youtu.be/itL4S6UmsqU?t=3m ?
[18:52:17] <witnit> how cool would this be for a small cnc http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/machinery-for-sale-or-wanted/fs-small-horizontal-mill-vertical-head-285257/
[18:55:36] <andypugh> witnit: I have one a little bigger than that, also horizontal / vertical and converted to CNC. https://youtu.be/X0celdfZmkA?list=PLNOR8ehKR3KsCRYZQ2bKFJb799EYBofc_
[18:55:42] <witnit> ok yep I want one of these http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af236/coyotechet/P1103524.jpg
[18:55:58] <witnit> oh wow nice work andypugh
[18:56:07] <witnit> I very much like this machine
[18:56:24] <witnit> someone could be using this 50 years from now
[18:57:50] <witnit> what drives the vertical?
[18:58:14] <andypugh> The problem with thse small mills is that by the time you have a chuck in the spindle, and a drill in the chuck, you can only work on 0.5” thick workpieces. Even my Harrison is annoying that way sometimes.
[18:58:30] <andypugh> witnit: Another identical servo in the base.
[18:58:32] <malcom2073> I love me a knee mill
[18:58:51] <witnit> nice drawbar
[18:59:40] <witnit> did the tube stretch out at all where the gripper pulls?
[19:00:06] <andypugh> Thanks. The drawbar is inconvenient at the moment, the compressor has died :-)
[19:01:27] <andypugh> Other than that the drawbar has been working perfectly since that video was made, which I confess has rather surprised me. :-)
[19:01:29] <witnit> put a pump in your lathe a fill your lines :)
[19:02:10] <witnit> oh that threading cycle on the mill "x-drive" is solid too
[19:02:53] <Sync> andypugh: I like how the mill is built like the moore jiggrinders
[19:03:01] <witnit> I think I would have been too lazy to try it all on the machine and would have turned the inner on a lathe and mounted it to an oversize hole in the casting
[19:03:15] <Sync> with the triangle constraining the way and the other one taking the pressure
[19:03:28] <andypugh> witnit: I half-expected to have to do that anyway.
[19:03:50] <witnit> I was a bit concerned about the casting cracking
[19:04:03] <witnit> but i dunno what kind of loads it takes either
[19:04:11] <andypugh> Sync: I don’t quite understand the vertical, which is two Vee-ways, which can’t ever quite agree with wach other.
[19:04:46] <witnit> andypugh: do you think that mill you retrofitted has a resell value?
[19:04:47] <andypugh> witnit: It takes all the X-axis force. I too have been half-expecting it to crack. :-)
[19:05:11] <witnit> cast is great but it seems only when in the right proportions to load
[19:05:15] <andypugh> witnit: I am sure it has, but I have no idea how much. Probably a fraction of what it cost me
[19:05:21] <witnit> right
[19:05:54] <andypugh> I might find out soon what a home retrofit is worth, I intend to try to sell the Chinese mill/lathe CNC machine.
[19:06:00] <witnit> I thought about buying up some older iron and doing very simple low cost conversions but i just dont think its feasable unless the machines are either massive or specialty
[19:06:21] <andypugh> Yeah. I do high-cost conversions :-)
[19:06:37] <andypugh> I spent £300 on castings for my current lathe conversion/
[19:06:45] <witnit> oh deary dear
[19:07:09] <Sync> oh yeah andypugh
[19:07:13] <andypugh> http://bodgesoc.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Holbrook05%20The%20Z-axis%20Drive
[19:07:17] <Sync> I did not see it the double vee
[19:07:21] <Sync> that is pretty interesting
[19:08:12] <witnit> it would almost be easier to download cad drawing of various engine blocks, bolt them together in the right ways and design your retrofits around them
[19:08:22] <witnit> kohler engine mounts :)
[19:08:34] <andypugh> witnit: Someone pretty much does that.
[19:08:42] <Duc> hello
[19:09:04] <Duc> witnit: look on ebay for scrap machines
[19:09:21] <witnit> when building one off machines it is probably most affordable to restructure around good reference lines
[19:09:30] <witnit> exactly
[19:09:53] <andypugh> witnit: Have you seen http://opensourcemachine.org ? That is made from old engine blocks.
[19:09:58] <witnit> yah
[19:10:00] <Duc> found a bridgeport vmc for 1500 but no room
[19:10:44] <witnit> is it close by?
[19:11:28] <Duc> AL
[19:11:46] <Sync> hmm andypugh I'd probably have glued the pinion to the servo shaft
[19:12:03] <andypugh> Sync: I wasn’t sure where I wanted it :-)
[19:14:02] <Sync> move until happy, then apply the loctite
[19:18:03] <Sync> and I'd hop onto that regrind
[19:18:06] <Sync> better now than later
[19:18:54] <Polymorphism> andypugh, let me see
[19:22:05] <Polymorphism> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEpApUx6JeU
[19:24:54] <evil_ren> k secret to using 4 flute EMs in aluminum seems to be cutting submerged in water based lube
[19:25:03] <Polymorphism> ty
[19:25:22] <Polymorphism> now why would I want to use 4 flute instead of 2 flute for al?
[19:25:30] <evil_ren> everytime i try dry, it snaps, every time i take another endmill same type under ruslick, works fine
[19:25:50] <evil_ren> to cut with twice as much feed for a given chip load
[19:27:34] <Polymorphism> I like the sound of that
[19:27:48] <evil_ren> or because you just happen to have a lot of 4 flute endmills around
[19:28:15] <djdelorie> or you've got more horsepower than the job requires
[19:29:41] <evil_ren> right, assuming you can keep the flutes clear
[19:30:58] <Polymorphism> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEpApUx6JeU&t=8m45s
[19:31:02] <Polymorphism> is that even good cut quality
[19:31:07] <evil_ren> so what dictates the tool shape in axis
[19:31:13] <evil_ren> it used to be a cone
[19:31:25] <evil_ren> but now its a big giant cylinder and i cant see the toolpaths past it
[19:31:35] <andypugh> evil_ren: The tool table. It is only a cone when there is no tool loaded
[19:31:37] <evil_ren> is there some sort of tool file?
[19:31:42] <evil_ren> oh
[19:32:02] <evil_ren> that makes sense, i do manual tool changes and usually edit T stuff out
[19:32:37] <evil_ren> i loaded something that didnt throw errors so i didnt edit so it prob changed the tool
[19:32:39] <andypugh> M6 T0 to get your cone back :)
[19:32:49] <evil_ren> yeah but im running something!
[19:33:02] <evil_ren> me tries mdi tab anyway
[19:33:30] <evil_ren> ^/
[19:33:34] <evil_ren> tab works but there is much dimming in boxes
[19:35:34] <evil_ren> also, my offsets must be zero
[19:35:41] <andypugh> Polymorphism: The initial cut quality is awful, but the finishing path rescues things.
[19:35:53] <andypugh> Right, time to sleep.
[19:36:00] <andypugh> Night all
[19:41:27] <Polymorphism> gn
[19:44:31] <zeeshan> yay a big machining order
[19:45:10] <witnit> zeeshan: hooray how big?!
[19:45:19] <zeeshan> 300 parts of each type
[19:45:22] <Sync> noice
[19:45:29] <zeeshan> im trying to figure out how to do it efficiently
[19:45:30] <Polymorphism> $_$
[19:45:40] <zeeshan> cause i have a day job..
[19:45:41] <zeeshan> =/
[19:46:04] <Sync> offshore it
[19:46:09] <zeeshan> lol
[19:46:43] <zeeshan> one part looks easy
[19:46:47] <zeeshan> the other not so much
[19:47:30] <zeeshan> sync do you think subaru would send the cops after me
[19:47:37] <zeeshan> if i left all the shattered remains of my engine
[19:47:42] <zeeshan> on their front door
[19:47:49] <Sync> probably not
[19:47:54] <zeeshan> or even better on public sidewalk in front of their shop
[19:47:55] <zeeshan> with a big sign
[19:48:03] <zeeshan> ------------------> Think twice before buying a subaru
[19:48:10] <Sync> put a big oilstain in their driveway
[19:48:20] <evil_ren> they would prob just sweep it into the bin containing the bits from all the others who did the same thing?
[19:48:27] <zeeshan> lol evil
[19:48:33] <zeeshan> ren did you see the damage?
[19:48:41] <zeeshan> its pretty interesting
[19:48:52] <evil_ren> people dont buy them for reliability, every time a subi owner suggests i should get one, my response is 'dont they break?'
[19:48:54] <zeeshan> i have it as my work wall paper
[19:48:56] <evil_ren> 'well yeah, but...'
[19:49:01] <evil_ren> like, no one denys it, heh
[19:49:10] <zeeshan> dude the subaru engine is lame to work on
[19:49:12] <witnit> zeeshan can we see prints im always curious about jobs
[19:49:14] <zeeshan> you have two of everything
[19:49:25] <zeeshan> and cross over lines for oil and coolant
[19:49:27] <zeeshan> waiting to fail
[19:49:35] <zeeshan> along with the o-rings between the block halves
[19:49:47] <zeeshan> all this bs to get lower center of gravity
[19:50:01] <evil_ren> well, because rally!
[19:50:07] <zeeshan> witnit gimme a few
[19:50:26] <evil_ren> wonder if porsche flat engines still have the orings
[19:50:33] <evil_ren> that shit goes back to VW fours
[19:50:42] <Polymorphism> I've never had a problem with subaru
[19:50:49] <zeeshan> evil
[19:50:52] <zeeshan> for your viewing pleasure
[19:50:52] <zeeshan> http://imgur.com/a/NySkI
[19:51:00] <evil_ren> polymorphism: i think its mostly the WRX
[19:51:08] <zeeshan> its not just the wrx
[19:51:14] <evil_ren> and mostly because of the amount of power going into the awd system
[19:51:20] <zeeshan> all 2006+ subarus burn oil
[19:51:24] <evil_ren> oh that
[19:51:32] <evil_ren> shrug, my car does that
[19:51:44] <zeeshan> prolly not at 35,000 miles
[19:51:45] <zeeshan> :P
[19:52:01] <zeeshan> im pretty much putting the car back together
[19:52:04] <evil_ren> no, and it didnt really burn oil until about 100k
[19:52:07] <zeeshan> and trading it in for a 4runner
[19:52:15] <zeeshan> some lucky person will get forged pistons
[19:52:19] <zeeshan> and all these new parts =/
[19:52:24] <evil_ren> toyota has a warranty extension and was going to rebuild to replace the piston rings, but theyre dicking me around about it
[19:52:46] <zeeshan> if i can get 100k miles out of a car
[19:52:47] <zeeshan> im happy
[19:52:56] <zeeshan> 200k miles and im bonded forever
[19:53:02] <evil_ren> this ones up to 135k and pretty much same car
[19:53:08] <zeeshan> 30k miles and it blows up
[19:53:11] <zeeshan> you get extreme hatred
[19:53:17] <zeeshan> especially after you deny warranty
[19:53:18] <evil_ren> it uses 1qt of oil about every 1k miles, but its 0w-20 oil, im not too surprised
[19:53:29] <zeeshan> did you try a thicker oil?
[19:53:37] <zeeshan> gas mileage will go down
[19:53:41] <zeeshan> but it might stop burning oil
[19:53:42] <evil_ren> i dont care so much id rather have the tinner oil and use up more of it
[19:53:45] <zeeshan> 20W is pretty thin
[19:53:46] <evil_ren> not like i dont check my oil
[19:53:59] <evil_ren> well my options are 5w-20 and 02-20
[19:54:06] <evil_ren> *0w-20
[19:54:19] <evil_ren> and in general, i prefer the lighter oils
[19:54:26] <zeeshan> lighter oils are good
[19:54:30] <zeeshan> more fuel efficient
[19:54:30] <evil_ren> especially the cold viscocity
[19:54:37] <zeeshan> but require tight tolerances
[19:54:40] <evil_ren> bob teh oil dude makes sense
[19:54:53] <evil_ren> lighter oils flow faster too
[19:54:55] <evil_ren> at startup
[19:55:00] <zeeshan> ya
[19:55:04] <evil_ren> i dont buy the thick oil on startup shit
[19:55:07] <zeeshan> im not too worried about that
[19:55:10] <zeeshan> i have an accusump
[19:55:13] <zeeshan> theres always oil pressure
[19:55:18] <zeeshan> theres no dry start
[19:55:21] <evil_ren> its just gonna get scraped away on the first cycle if its even still stuck there in the first place
[19:55:45] <evil_ren> not dry but pressure will be up without as much flow because thicker
[19:55:48] <Sync> the oil has stickifiers, it's not like it just goes away
[19:55:52] <evil_ren> is somewhat misleading
[19:55:52] <zeeshan> yewa
[19:55:55] <zeeshan> its like way lube
[19:55:56] <zeeshan> it sticks
[19:56:03] <evil_ren> yeah but thick oil wont have more stickifiers
[19:56:14] <zeeshan> it wont
[19:56:19] <zeeshan> but itll have the viscosity
[19:56:23] <zeeshan> its like honey vs water
[19:56:24] <evil_ren> so id rather have the thin oil with better flow in general
[19:56:34] <evil_ren> and so what i spend $5 more every 5000 miles
[19:56:34] <zeeshan> it takes longer for it to mvoe away
[19:56:38] <evil_ren> its getting worse, tho
[19:56:46] <zeeshan> 1qt is a lot
[19:56:52] <zeeshan> did you do a compression test?
[19:56:58] <evil_ren> i wouldnt mind having the new rings, but im not going to do the oil consumption test again
[19:57:15] <evil_ren> no but it doesnt feel down on power
[19:57:28] <zeeshan> trake off oil cap when running
[19:57:29] <evil_ren> i should probably replace the plugs one day
[19:57:30] <zeeshan> if you feel mad pulses
[19:57:34] <evil_ren> could do it then
[19:57:36] <zeeshan> rings are fried
[19:57:48] <evil_ren> pretty sure rings are not fried
[19:58:01] <evil_ren> car has power, same mileage as pretty much always
[19:59:11] <evil_ren> my guess is its just the thinner oil in a typical tolerances engine
[19:59:36] <evil_ren> worked fine for 100k miles, decent amount gets by after
[19:59:40] <evil_ren> also i engine brake constantly
[20:00:04] <evil_ren> its basically how i drive the car, so i should be burning more oil than average
[20:01:29] <zeeshan> witnit: http://i.imgur.com/COqkDZH.png
[20:01:33] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/RwuQdGt.png
[20:02:09] <evil_ren> yeah have fun with that squate slot
[20:02:11] <zeeshan> the first part im thinking of just getting flat bar
[20:02:25] <zeeshan> already cut to size
[20:02:31] <zeeshan> squaring it up with multiple pieces in the vise
[20:02:49] <zeeshan> then stacking them and running a corner radius tool
[20:02:58] <zeeshan> actually doing the hole first
[20:03:10] <zeeshan> hm
[20:03:17] <zeeshan> now im doubting my process -- it sounded good in my head :P
[20:03:34] <evil_ren> the only challengine part about that looks like doing a 1.8" slot with a .25" endmill
[20:03:42] <zeeshan> thats easy
[20:03:47] <Polymorphism> what does the circle with a diagonal line through it mean zeeshan
[20:03:50] <zeeshan> im trying to figure out how to do 300 of them efficiently
[20:04:17] <evil_ren> the slot you can line em up in a vise, ya
[20:04:41] <zeeshan> okay i think ill do this, grab some 1.25x.5 flat bar cut to lengths of 2.375
[20:05:02] <zeeshan> square up the length to 2.3
[20:05:29] <evil_ren> i think you should figure out how to do the counterbore and radius in one operation, drill in same setup
[20:05:55] <evil_ren> holding on the counterbore side, one at a time because you cant stack and do the radius
[20:05:57] <zeeshan> then i cant use 1.25" flatbar
[20:06:00] <zeeshan> i'd need to go to 1.5"
[20:06:17] <evil_ren> yeah im saying after getting stock to size
[20:06:17] <zeeshan> its faster and easier with a corner radius tool
[20:06:36] <zeeshan> if i make the stock longer in the 2.150 direction
[20:06:41] <zeeshan> to 2.3
[20:06:47] <evil_ren> yeah but you cant do the slot or the hole
[20:06:53] <zeeshan> i can
[20:06:55] <zeeshan> from the top
[20:07:08] <evil_ren> i meant same setup
[20:08:49] <zeeshan> i wish it didnt have to be a flat bottom slot
[20:09:10] <evil_ren> ask them if they can change
[20:09:16] <zeeshan> they cant
[20:09:17] <evil_ren> offer to do it a bit cheaper
[20:09:18] <evil_ren> oh
[20:09:37] <zeeshan> initially i was thinkig of doing the slot with my large milling disc cutter
[20:09:44] <evil_ren> yeah looks like if that is a critical min slot length, they basically turn it pussy to radius it
[20:09:47] <zeeshan> but its slower :P
[20:10:12] <evil_ren> slots not impossible, just not a standard endmill
[20:10:24] <zeeshan> my problem is
[20:10:31] <zeeshan> when ive done something like this inthe past
[20:10:39] <zeeshan> the part becomes very flimsy and hard to hold also
[20:10:45] <zeeshan> i had to make a fixture for it
[20:10:45] <evil_ren> i try to avoid shit like that since i tried to mill heatsink slots with a 1/8" endmill once
[20:11:04] <evil_ren> standard tool lengths are standard for a reason =\
[20:11:19] <zeeshan> i rarely use standard length
[20:11:23] <zeeshan> unless doing my own stuff
[20:11:24] <zeeshan> lol
[20:11:33] <zeeshan> always gotta use XLONG
[20:11:36] <zeeshan> and slow crap down
[20:11:41] <ssi> crap down
[20:11:50] <zeeshan> =]
[20:16:34] <witnit> some guy just bought two citizen cincoms for a dollar on ebay :P part or not working but, so what!
[20:18:12] <zeeshan> okay it makes sense to get 1.5" flat bar not 1.25"
[20:18:25] <zeeshan> do the curve and hole like you were sayin
[20:18:35] <zeeshan> can do 5 parts at a time
[20:18:50] <zeeshan> then all the exterior will be pretty damn accurate
[20:19:08] <zeeshan> stack a bunch of them and come in with a slitting saw :P
[20:21:23] <witnit> zeeshan: horozontal mill them with rough contours then slice them and square?
[20:21:50] <zeeshan> many way to do it
[20:22:01] <witnit> should reduce your passes per chucking parts ratio
[20:22:03] <zeeshan> i really like the contour evertyhing first
[20:22:17] <zeeshan> then come in with a slitting saw
[20:22:26] <zeeshan> and knock out 10 slots at a time
[20:22:56] <zeeshan> i wonder if someone makes a .3 thick slitting saw
[20:23:33] <witnit> material?
[20:23:49] <witnit> .3 or .030?
[20:23:54] <zeeshan> .3
[20:24:02] <witnit> sounds big
[20:24:12] <zeeshan> i has .25
[20:28:28] <witnit> what material is it?
[20:28:58] <zeeshan> 6061
[20:29:02] <zeeshan> easy peezee :D
[20:36:22] <CaptHindsight> what does 10" PVC pipe smell like being milled?
[20:36:38] <CaptHindsight> terrible
[20:36:38] <malcom2073> Like cancer
[20:37:10] <zeeshan> lol
[20:39:59] <CaptHindsight> petes back
[20:40:31] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: how's the new home shopping going?
[20:40:41] <witnit> zeeshan: maybe it would be best to do you slot with a .250 and then come back with some clean passes on each side so you dont have a poor finish due to large shavings binding into the walls
[20:42:21] <zeeshan> i will be doing peel milling
[20:43:00] <CaptHindsight> http://thingiverse-production-new.s3.amazonaws.com/renders/6c/8d/bb/53/5a/IMG_6418_preview_featured.jpg
[20:43:10] <CaptHindsight> is that anything like this? ^^^
[20:58:32] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight so far we have not found the right one but we are still looking ;)
[20:59:59] <BKLN_DUDE> Does anyone here know use the Mesa 5I25/7i76 combo with linuxcnc
[21:00:02] <PetefromTn_> We did make it to the beach today tho :D
[21:00:08] <BKLN_DUDE> (or at least know about it)
[21:00:11] <jdh> look farther south... get an extra bedroom, maybe a guest apt
[21:01:56] <BKLN_DUDE> Or does anyone know about hardware vs software step generation?
[21:02:49] <jdh> do you have a specific question or area of interest?
[21:05:46] <BKLN_DUDE> Yep: I'm using a 5I25/7I76 combo in pncconf that gets ~190ipm.
[21:06:09] <BKLN_DUDE> But when I use software stepping I get over 700ipm.
[21:06:27] <BKLN_DUDE> This makes no sense to me, because sw stepping is supposed to be slower than the Mesa hardware.
[21:06:33] <reddress> hi
[21:08:00] <BKLN_DUDE> The software stepping uses a parallel port card -- just testing the difference between the two. And I get these odd results.
[21:08:39] <dressandheels> BKLN_DUDE: what are you trying to do?
[21:12:51] <BKLN_DUDE> dressandheeels: It's for a CNC machine. I'm testing the difference between LinuxCNC's software stepping and hardware stepping.
[21:13:54] <BKLN_DUDE> I have a Mesa 5i25 (really a 6i25) and a 7i76 combo for hardware. I've configured it using pncconf. It only get's ~190 before the motor stalls (while jogging).
[21:14:35] <BKLN_DUDE> But! Software stepping with a significantly cheaper PCI parallel port card get's over 700ipm.
[21:15:08] <BKLN_DUDE> I've swapped drivers around, motors, etc -- looking for the reason why the hardware is "slower" than the software.
[21:15:25] <BKLN_DUDE> Perhaps there's something I'm doing wrong, or something I don't know
[21:15:37] <witnit> can you post your ini and hal?
[21:15:46] <witnit> i suspect a cap on your velocity
[21:15:52] <witnit> or some tuning issue
[21:16:03] <BKLN_DUDE> Mm. It's on the cnc machine downstairs (sadly).
[21:16:06] <dressandheels> BKLN_DUDE: I know It's for a cnc..
[21:16:54] <BKLN_DUDE> I'd arguably say it's not necessarily related to the INI and HAL files. Why? I've tweaked the timings. It's inherent to using sw vs hw.
[21:17:13] <dressandheels> I'm using dual lpt with mach3 and it's work fine for me, even on 3d machining and very long code.
[21:17:17] <witnit> suit yourself then
[21:18:07] <dressandheels> but I want to change the setup to linuxcnc to get better performance for my servo motors.
[21:18:16] <jdh> heh, looked like you said you used mach3
[21:19:01] <BKLN_DUDE> lol, sorry witnit. It's in the basement. I'd have to fire everything back up. I doubt there's anything in there that would say 'HERE IT IS!'. It's not really a question about the configuration. Technically, it would be if the sw stepping was too slow or was causing trouble. It's the hw stepping that's slow.
[21:19:05] <dressandheels> I'm with mach3 now..
[21:19:24] <malcom2073> BKLN_DUDE: The big difference between your software and hardware setup is: The configuration :)
[21:20:05] <dressandheels> I'm too lazy on install linux cnc and redone eveything
[21:20:09] <BKLN_DUDE> malcolm2073: alright. I'll reconfigure the files and send them. I seriously doubt there's anything useful there. :(
[21:20:39] <dressandheels> BKLN_DUDE: pastebin your configuration files.
[21:20:50] <BKLN_DUDE> brb
[21:20:51] <malcom2073> If you doubt there is, then why not look at the other places that are different between the HW and SW setup?
[21:21:45] <dressandheels> I'm starving
[21:30:59] <BKLYN_DUDE_BASEM> okay
[21:31:11] <BKLYN_DUDE_BASEM> which files do you want me to pastebin
[21:31:12] <BKLYN_DUDE_BASEM> ?
[21:34:18] <BKLYN_DUDE_BASEM> software stepping ini: http://pastebin.com/nWKJtXYp
[21:35:30] <BKLYN_DUDE_BASEM> hardware stepping ini: http://pastebin.com/WZdQ2aCd
[21:36:38] <BKLYN_DUDE_BASEM> software_stepping_hal: http://pastebin.com/jzFArVKp
[21:37:43] <BKLYN_DUDE_BASEM> hw_stepping_hal: http://pastebin.com/LhmqMq5k
[21:38:00] <BKLYN_DUDE_BASEM> pay attention to the x axis -- the others are not connected.
[21:38:46] <malcom2073> Your hardware stepping ini has a X axis max velocity set to significantly lower than the software, also software steplen and stepspace are set differently, why?
[21:40:48] <BKLN_DUDE> Q: "Your hardware stepping ini has a X axis max velocity set to significantly lower than the software"
[21:40:50] <BKLN_DUDE> A: for the first part of the question: because the motor stalls if it's any higher
[21:41:25] <BKLN_DUDE> Q: "also software steplen and stepspace are set differently, why?
[21:41:26] <BKLN_DUDE> A: Because those are the timings where they don't stall.
[21:41:45] <malcom2073> They should be set as appropriate for your stepper driver
[21:41:50] <BKLN_DUDE> right
[21:41:51] <malcom2073> In both
[21:41:53] <BKLN_DUDE> they are
[21:41:55] <malcom2073> Which one is right?
[21:42:03] <BKLN_DUDE> both
[21:42:07] <BKLN_DUDE> "why"
[21:42:10] <malcom2073> So you're using two different stepper drivers?
[21:42:18] <BKLN_DUDE> Nope
[21:42:23] <ssi> so loud in here all of a sudden :P
[21:42:36] <BKLN_DUDE> there is a case where I am, but this is not it
[21:43:18] <BKLN_DUDE> those are MA860H clones from stepper-online. I have some Gecko GM215s, but we're not talking about those. Those are great.
[21:43:37] <BKLN_DUDE> ssi: because we're doing science :D
[21:44:16] <malcom2073> BKLN_DUDE: Stalling as in stopping motion and being silent, or stalling as in stopping motion and making a grinding noise?
[21:44:40] <BKLN_DUDE> mmm, more like an audible whirr -- like it's locking up.
[21:44:58] <BKLN_DUDE> the grinding noise is if I get the timings totally wrong.
[21:45:01] <ssi> I wanna do science
[21:45:08] <BKLN_DUDE> Let's do it!
[21:45:26] <BKLN_DUDE> <fireworks!>
[21:46:29] <BeachBumPete> Whaaa?
[21:46:35] <BKLN_DUDE> So, the weird thing: in sw it takes one set of timings, in hardware another. Not so bad, just that it's significantly slower. Which doesn't make any rational sense.
[21:46:36] <malcom2073> BKLN_DUDE: ARe you using closed loop steppers?
[21:46:43] <BKLN_DUDE> Open.
[21:46:47] <ssi> BeachBumPete: lol
[21:46:50] <malcom2073> Why do you have closed loop stepper signals?
[21:47:05] <BKLN_DUDE> mmm, where would I change that?
[21:47:05] <BeachBumPete> :D
[21:47:20] <BKLN_DUDE> is this in hw or sw?
[21:47:25] <malcom2073> in hw
[21:47:34] <BKLN_DUDE> let's hope that was the idiot mistake
[21:47:36] <BKLN_DUDE> brb
[21:47:43] <malcom2073> I've not configured a 5i25 in a very long time though, so someone else will ahve to chirp upon that, Idon't recall that being in there
[21:50:18] <BKLYN_DUDE_BASEM> I'm looking for where in pncconf to disable an encoder (closed loop) -- I don't see one.
[21:53:20] <BKLYN_DUDE_BASEM> I see "encoder scale" in Axis Scale Calculation under pncconf. It's grayed out.
[21:53:27] <BKLYN_DUDE_BASEM> nothing to change there.
[22:11:32] <evil_ren> machining so much air
[22:12:08] <evil_ren> i wish i understood fusions 360's ramp in logic, last 3 depths, wants to be .1" above even if it knows from rest machining nothing there
[22:12:20] <evil_ren> but on final depth it just goes for it, no ramp
[22:12:24] <evil_ren> shrug
[22:22:58] <BKLN_DUDE> evil_ren: http://theqyd.blogspot.com/2015/09/milling-brass-using-othermill.html
[22:23:26] <BKLN_DUDE> That may not answer your question directly, but it has some tips on how to balance ramping in F360
[22:24:02] <BKLN_DUDE> Mostly what each setting means and what it does -- so you can figure out how it relates to what you're trying to cut. Also, and you probably know this, run a simulation to see what's happening.
[22:25:03] <BKLN_DUDE> You want to look at the min/max stepdown with ramping. Probably use something like zig-zag or smooth profile.
[22:25:17] <BKLN_DUDE> Wish I had more specific answers, but that may help. :)
[22:26:33] <pink_vampire> hi
[22:38:08] <witnit> anyone recognize this machine brand? http://www.independentintime.com/storage/basel-2009/mcgonigle/Lathe1.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1243707566562
[22:41:15] <witnit> I dont really have any leftovers, should we stop and get something to stock the fridge at the shop up with?
[22:41:17] <witnit> hahaha
[22:41:22] <witnit> wrong box!
[22:50:54] <evil_ren> bkln_dude: thanks!
[22:51:03] <BKLN_DUDE> np
[22:51:22] <evil_ren> i had to tweak rampdown a bunch to get it to machine some little pockets
[22:52:01] <evil_ren> i think it might have to do with the one of the lift parameters
[22:52:48] <evil_ren> 3d pocket maybe ignores that for final depth because it knows its machined it, otherwise sticks to whichever safe lift parameter
[23:35:37] <pcw_home> BKLN_DUDE: maybe marginal step timings? the hardware times are quite accurate but the software steptimes may be many usec longer than specified
[23:36:22] <BKLN_DUDE> pcw_home: not sure what you mean
[23:37:50] <pcw_home> if you say set the software stepgen to 5 usec it may generate a 10 usec pulse, the hardware pulse lengths are quite close (with 30 ns or so)
[23:38:10] <pcw_home> so you may have marginal timing
[23:40:21] <pcw_home> with 2540 steps/inch, you could get to 1200 IPM with 10 usec steptime/stepspace timings so 10/10 usec might be worth a try
[23:43:36] <Jymmm> That's just crazy 'braking the speed of light' talk right there!
[23:43:42] <Jymmm> breaking*
[23:44:48] <Jymmm> Wait, braking light speed... is that like those cop dudes in Tron?