#linuxcnc | Logs for 2016-03-25

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[00:20:42] <pink_vampire> I just shrink down carabide cutter shank
[00:25:11] <pink_vampire> the shank now is 0.9 mm!!
[00:25:18] <pink_vampire> soo small!
[00:43:27] <toastyde2th> i sometimes hate the linux community
[00:43:40] <toastyde2th> it seems like every halfassed neckbeard confuses "i don't know how to do that" with "that's not possible"
[00:44:24] <djdelorie> that's every community, not just linux
[00:44:59] <toastyde2th> linux seems to be especially prone to it
[00:45:29] <toastyde2th> and seems to have a high percentage of people who absolutely freak out when something is possible that they insisted is not for a half hour
[00:45:36] <toastyde2th> instead of just going "oh, interesting"
[00:45:59] <toastyde2th> like, networking? networking people do that way less.
[00:49:08] <pink_vampire> linux is 95% voodoo
[00:49:34] <toastyde2th> 95% voodoo, 5% documentation
[00:49:58] <toastyde2th> i guess the lesson i'm taking away from this is that nobody who uses linux understands SANs
[00:50:01] <toastyde2th> or storage of any sort
[00:50:35] <pink_vampire> I used to work with debian alot.
[00:50:52] <toastyde2th> same, i need to switch to centos
[00:50:55] <toastyde2th> not that i want to
[00:51:28] <5EXAAGYI5> toastyde2th: yeah.
[00:51:40] <5EXAAGYI5> Finding out something is possible that I thought wasn't is cool.
[00:51:55] <toastyde2th> same
[00:52:00] <pink_vampire> why you want to go to centos?
[00:52:15] <toastyde2th> i'm used to the networking community, where pretty much everyone has that "well i don't know if that's possible, sry" attitude
[00:52:24] <toastyde2th> versus linux, which tends to be "FUCK YOU AND YOUR MOTHER"
[00:52:38] <5EXAAGYI5> It depends
[00:52:43] <toastyde2th> pink_vampire, most of the shit I do is for consulting, and more junior sysadmins understand centos/rhel
[00:52:46] <5EXAAGYI5> I've seen a lot of that in ubuntu et al
[00:52:52] <5EXAAGYI5> I've not seen it in slackware say
[00:53:13] <toastyde2th> so if I have a bunch of debian servers, it's much more likely that one of my dudes will fuck the server up
[00:54:21] <toastyde2th> i'm just not as familiar with centos, so i need to start converting servers over to it to learn
[00:54:55] <djdelorie> full disclosure: I work for Red Hat...
[00:55:12] <pink_vampire> toastyde2th: do you want to install linuxcnc on centos?
[00:55:41] <toastyde2th> djdelorie, i've got no issues with redhat, I use their docs for lots of stuff
[00:55:59] <toastyde2th> pink_vampire, nah. I'm a fanuc guy when it comes to cnc
[00:56:10] <Lowridah> hmm i found a whole bunch of maybe 20-30 year old keo countersinks, i wonder if i'm nuts for wanting to try to use them as chamfer mills
[00:56:23] <toastyde2th> countersinks make great chamfer mills if you go slow
[00:56:30] <Lowridah> really
[00:56:33] <pink_vampire> so what are you doing here?
[00:56:33] <toastyde2th> yeh
[00:56:41] <Lowridah> i thought i was smoking crack for considering it
[00:56:53] <djdelorie> yeah, this is obviously the rant-about-linux-support channel...
[00:57:02] <Lowridah> linux has open sores
[00:57:03] <toastyde2th> pink_vampire, it's essentially the only machining/cnc channel there is. 70% of the discussion is machining, about 30% is linuxcnc
[00:57:04] <Lowridah> i heard
[00:57:15] <toastyde2th> and since i used to do it professionally, it's a cool place to hang out
[00:58:04] <pink_vampire> I'm with mach3..
[00:58:56] <pink_vampire> toastyde2th: ^
[00:59:10] <toastyde2th> never used either, except in sandboxes
[00:59:20] <toastyde2th> never on live metal
[01:01:02] <pink_vampire> i just cut a shank of end mill with it.
[01:01:13] <pink_vampire> http://i.imgur.com/BplhBF3.png
[01:01:34] <pink_vampire> http://i.imgur.com/sq3g4Yh.png
[01:01:45] <Lowridah> i do all my work in rhel7 and amazon linux professionally
[01:02:07] <pink_vampire> and this is what i'm working on it now http://i.imgur.com/Nt50ynf.png
[01:05:36] <toastyde2th> Lowridah, i've only worked with amazon in passing
[01:05:48] <toastyde2th> for some gis stuff
[01:08:02] <toastyde2th> my latest issue with linux has been trying to find someone who understands scsi/sas
[01:08:07] <Lowridah> i work in their server hw lab so i mostly only use the metal flavor which isn't exactly much like the ami
[01:08:28] <toastyde2th> because I'm trying to set up a sas fabric and get it to work properly with the hosts
[01:08:38] <toastyde2th> and apparently nobody is aware that sas is a network protocol
[01:08:40] <Lowridah> i deal mostly in sas through raid cards/expanders
[01:08:51] <Lowridah> but it's all off the shelf gear
[01:09:20] <djdelorie> I have a page about iscsi but I haven't seen a real scsi drive in ages...
[01:10:01] <toastyde2th> i wasn't exactly talking with them about their flavor of linux, we were doing gis stuff and I had written a toy program to do better startup/shutdown for the on-demand stuff
[01:10:09] <toastyde2th> based on load
[01:10:20] <toastyde2th> it worked much better than the stuff they had at the time
[01:10:25] <toastyde2th> not sure what the options are now
[01:11:03] <Lowridah> do you mean per-host like power on write, like something crazy, or just scaling up amounts of hosts through automation?
[01:11:25] <toastyde2th> the latter, but it can apply to either
[01:11:26] <Lowridah> i'd just size the amount of hosts you need and manage scaling by bringing them up over ipmi or something
[01:12:00] <toastyde2th> i wrote a pid loop to keep the load of whatever cluster at some predefined level
[01:12:02] <unfy> dj <3 tnx for all your contributions to... everything... over the years <3
[01:12:11] <toastyde2th> it doesn't really care about it being hardware or software
[01:12:12] <djdelorie> you're welcome :-)
[01:12:34] <toastyde2th> but it was neat because it worked with (in a simulator) 10 nodes equally well as 10k
[01:12:35] <unfy> was using the dos toolchain back in the 90's etc heh
[01:12:44] <djdelorie> me too :-)
[01:12:48] <Lowridah> i still have to use dos now and then for new product integration
[01:12:59] <Lowridah> hardware companies firmware stacks are often tied to it
[01:12:59] <toastyde2th> djdelorie, re:scsi we have a few sun boxes that are full of actual scsi drives
[01:13:02] <Lowridah> it's ridiculous
[01:13:10] <unfy> we still ship products using dos. but it's all embedded level stuff
[01:13:25] <djdelorie> Oh, I have some scsi drives around here too, but they've been in storage for ages, since sata came around
[01:13:36] <toastyde2th> my whole thing is I need to bring up a shitload of SAS drives on a cluster
[01:13:41] <toastyde2th> on the same sas fabric
[01:13:51] <toastyde2th> but only have some drives available to some hosts unless there's a failure
[01:13:56] <unfy> still got a few 9gb scsi drives floating around this building ._.
[01:14:00] <toastyde2th> then have nearest neighbor take them
[01:14:04] <Lowridah> that sounds kinda complex
[01:14:10] <Lowridah> i'd offload it from the sas protocol for sure
[01:14:12] <toastyde2th> and it turns out scsi has native support for that
[01:14:15] <Lowridah> use something like gfs or gluster
[01:14:21] <toastyde2th> Lowridah, this is for ceph
[01:14:29] <Lowridah> i dunno what that is tbh
[01:14:31] <toastyde2th> the issue is i'm trying to decouple host failures from drive failures
[01:14:36] <toastyde2th> it's like gluster but on steroids
[01:14:40] <Lowridah> ahh
[01:14:55] <djdelorie> sounds like multi-host scsi with cross-host heartbeats...
[01:15:01] <toastyde2th> that's exactly what it is
[01:15:26] <toastyde2th> so if i have 8 hosts and 8 drive trays, any host can go down and all the drives stay in the cluster
[01:15:37] <toastyde2th> all hosts can go down, really
[01:15:39] <toastyde2th> except one
[01:15:44] <djdelorie> yeah, today's drives are so cheap people don't need to do that any more, they just replicate the data
[01:16:28] <toastyde2th> in most cases, yeah
[01:16:31] <Lowridah> exactly, the only hosts i use that use sas now have four shelves of 33 drives a shelf
[01:16:48] <toastyde2th> my issue isn't the storage, it's the hosts
[01:16:52] <Lowridah> you can fit a lot of drives in 2u with modern hardware
[01:17:13] <toastyde2th> i can have one host with an entire rack, but if it goes down i suddenly have a lot of backend storage traffic while the cluster rebuilds
[01:17:38] <toastyde2th> it's much easier (for me) to have inexpensive SAS shit just hand the drives to another node and not have a bunch of migration/reconstruction for a simple reboot
[01:17:54] <djdelorie> I don't know how gluster does it, but that's our preferred HA storage solution
[01:18:06] <Lowridah> so then is it done using physical multipathing over expanders?
[01:18:10] <toastyde2th> gluster doesn't do it super well, you wouldn't be able to handle it there
[01:18:13] <Lowridah> i'm having a bit of trouble picturing it hardware wise
[01:18:15] <toastyde2th> Lustre and Ceph both do it
[01:18:27] <toastyde2th> it's either done directly on the expander, or on a sas switch
[01:18:40] <toastyde2th> if you have a 4/8 port expander, no need for a switch
[01:19:04] <toastyde2th> but if you use a switch, there's no need for expanders - you just plug the channels right into it
[01:19:16] <toastyde2th> so the trays get stupid cheap
[01:20:05] * djdelorie imagines a redundant cnc cluster - if a machine fails, robots move the part to another machine and it finishes the job...
[01:20:14] <Lowridah> this is all relevant to my interests, but it's beer time so i'm going to bookmark the page and wrap my head around it when i'm in a better way haha
[01:20:20] <toastyde2th> Lowridah, check ceph out
[01:20:32] <toastyde2th> it's very similar in functionality to ceph but handles the storage itself much more elegantly
[01:20:33] <Lowridah> toastyde2th: i plan on it, i have idle hardware and a lot of it
[01:20:58] <toastyde2th> you just hand it a pile of hard drives and walk away, no raid
[01:21:21] <toastyde2th> and good luck with yer beers
[01:21:37] <toastyde2th> *similar to gluster
[01:22:38] <unfy> so... how much would it scare people to know we also still use rh9.0 in a production environment around here ? :D
[01:23:33] <toastyde2th> hahah
[01:23:40] <Lowridah> that's just reckless
[01:23:56] <toastyde2th> i have a box with solaris 6 on it
[01:24:02] <unfy> that is "it does the job, it aint broke, dont fix it" :D
[01:24:30] <toastyde2th> it never gets rebooted and is on several upses
[01:24:34] <unfy> although i am getting things slowly migrated over to centos... either 5.x or maybe 6.x definetly not 7.x - not a fan of systemd at all
[01:24:37] <toastyde2th> everyone's afraid the drives won't spin back up
[01:24:45] <toastyde2th> aw but systemd
[01:25:16] <unfy> we had a slackware 3 box as our gateway that had dead drives in it for a year or so. ran out of what it had cached in ram for about 18 months :D
[01:26:27] <djdelorie> unfy: as long as you keep up with security errata...
[01:26:54] <djdelorie> I don't like systemd either, but I can see how it's better than sysvinit
[01:27:18] <unfy> dj: there's generally nothing public facing about these systems so we get a bit of a reprieve from the 'patch old bugs, introduced new bugs' cycle
[01:27:46] <djdelorie> as long as security has been considered :-)
[01:28:20] <unfy> i'm sure it was a fence post along the highway somewhere
[01:29:31] <unfy> 100amp bridge rectifier is here, yay!
[01:32:15] <pink_vampire> 100amps for what??
[01:32:24] <pink_vampire> unfy: ^
[01:32:41] <unfy> horror freight welder hack
[01:33:15] <pink_vampire> spot welder?
[01:34:46] <unfy> hmmm no. their cheap flux core wire feld welder. it's actually AC at the electrode. a large rectifier and 50000-100000uf in caps can turn it into a dc electrode-negative based welder. oh, and a largeish inductor if you want to as well
[01:35:35] <unfy> although, i've pondered if i could have a use for a spot welder. just not sure
[01:36:22] <unfy> although uhhhhh... multiple stuff for a CNC spot welder sounds neat.
[01:36:25] <unfy> dunno about practical though
[01:41:24] <unfy> would multiple of the O<| cheap supported round rails from china add any rigidity to things, or just cause more alignment headaches due to more rails & bearings & such ?
[01:47:10] <toastyde2th> generally there's a preference for as few, large rails as possible
[01:52:27] <pink_vampire> unfy: do you have a pic of that?
[01:52:40] <unfy> 'that' being ?
[01:53:20] <pink_vampire> "freight welder hack"
[01:54:24] <unfy> "harbor freight welder mod" gets lots of hits on google or youtube. this has some pics: http://www.blinkenbyte.org/welder_conversion/welder_conversion.html
[01:56:30] <unfy> granted, at the cost of the rectifier (20-25), capacitor(s) (20-60), and maybe inductor (15?) ... if ya can find a $150-$200 110v welder that does what you want it's prolly a better deal :D
[01:59:43] <unfy> a WF2150 looks to be DC, runs off of 110, and can do flux core wire if you want ... and runs $185
[02:00:25] <pink_vampire> I want (some day) to get a tig
[02:00:37] <unfy> some day :D
[02:02:32] <pink_vampire> I don't have a welder.
[02:02:51] <pink_vampire> but I don't like junk..
[02:03:18] <unfy> i did some stick welding 20 years ago.... finally decided to just pick up the horror freight thing since it was like $80.
[02:03:51] <unfy> not a huge fan of junk either, but it should suit my needs... can go hobart or something later if it gets to the point of using it more than once a month
[02:04:25] <pink_vampire> lol horror freight !
[02:04:32] <pink_vampire> I like that.
[02:05:52] <pink_vampire> how is lincoln electric?
[02:06:25] <unfy> 'twas what i was working with years ago, and i liked it. most folks online seem to say it's alright.
[02:06:38] <unfy> their rods and wire and stuff seem to be highly suggested / regarded
[02:09:41] <pink_vampire> so they better than hobart?
[02:09:52] <unfy> i'm not qualified to answer that
[02:10:50] <pink_vampire> my gloves are hobart.
[02:10:59] <pink_vampire> very nice.
[02:17:15] <pink_vampire> 49592 lines of gcode O_O O_O
[02:19:46] <pink_vampire> I need some good music.
[02:39:17] <toastyde2th> what kind of music
[02:44:41] <pink_vampire> inspire ..
[03:31:45] <pink_vampire> someone here?
[03:36:27] <Deejay> moin
[03:37:19] <pink_vampire> http://ustre.am/1qGHt
[03:37:24] <pink_vampire> morning Deejay
[03:43:35] <Deejay> hi pink
[03:43:37] <Deejay> what are you making?
[03:45:26] <pink_vampire> handle for a mallet.
[03:47:50] <Deejay> an
[03:47:51] <Deejay> ah
[03:47:52] <pink_vampire> sooo slooow
[03:48:04] <pink_vampire> but super quite.
[03:49:40] <Deejay> hrhr
[03:50:15] <Deejay> can't go faster?
[03:50:38] <Deejay> what kind of wood is that?
[03:52:00] <pink_vampire> wood that split easy.
[03:52:34] <SpeedEvil> I think you may want a spoke-shave, not a CNC
[03:52:42] <SpeedEvil> Or indeed a knife.
[03:53:34] <pink_vampire> I want to make a cavity inside.
[03:54:16] <Deejay> splitting wood? so you will have little wood pieces in your fingers when working with the mallet? ;)
[03:54:39] <pink_vampire> no.
[03:54:55] <pink_vampire> but i can't go fast with low spindle.
[03:55:45] <pink_vampire> it did about 25%
[03:57:15] <Deejay> hmm k.
[03:57:15] <Deejay> what speed does you spindle make?
[03:58:23] <pink_vampire> 744
[03:58:36] <pink_vampire> up to 1000rom
[03:58:39] <pink_vampire> rpm
[03:58:51] <pink_vampire> do you see the mini hammer?
[03:59:22] <Deejay> okay, thats not very fast ;)
[03:59:23] <Deejay> somewhat dark at your location ;)
[04:00:04] <pink_vampire> yeah,,
[04:00:14] <Deejay> not sure
[04:00:28] <pink_vampire> I turn off the light.
[04:00:50] <pink_vampire> I turn it on for you :)
[04:02:21] <Deejay> ah!
[04:02:21] <Deejay> indeed, a very small hammer :)
[04:02:55] <pink_vampire> I'm use it alot for setup.
[04:02:57] <Deejay> gnah, was disconnected
[04:03:23] <pink_vampire> but the handle is soo sharp.
[04:03:53] <Deejay> so you will make the wooden part around the handle?
[04:04:08] <Deejay> will there two pieces of wood glued together?
[04:04:08] <pink_vampire> it's skretch my skin
[04:04:20] <pink_vampire> yes.
[04:04:22] <Deejay> your skin is too sensitive ;)
[04:04:29] <pink_vampire> I know :(
[04:04:30] <Deejay> no worker hands ;)
[04:04:45] <Deejay> like bear paws
[04:04:46] <pink_vampire> did you saw my hands?
[04:05:03] <Deejay> yep, with long nails ;)
[04:05:25] <pink_vampire> they soo red.
[04:05:36] <pink_vampire> I don't know what to do :(
[04:06:20] <pink_vampire> everything irritate my skin
[04:06:47] <Deejay> :(
[04:10:01] <pink_vampire> I'm a lady.. but I like machinery
[04:10:27] <pink_vampire> for me to go shopping it's to get stock material.
[04:11:06] <Deejay> hehe :)
[04:13:27] <pink_vampire> WTF the machine doing??
[04:13:48] <Deejay> dunno, YOU programmed it ;)
[04:15:11] <Not-Renny> Somebody's machine is going nuts?
[04:15:15] <pink_vampire> I know..
[04:15:42] <pink_vampire> it's make soooo many shit.
[04:15:49] <pink_vampire> WTF.
[04:16:03] <pink_vampire> up down up down up down up down
[04:16:09] <Deejay> didn't you check the g-code before? ;)
[04:16:31] <pink_vampire> yes.
[04:16:36] <pink_vampire> but it's sooooooooooooooo long.
[04:16:56] <Deejay> hehe
[04:17:06] <pink_vampire> so I jump to the end and saw that eventually it will be ok.
[04:17:48] <pink_vampire> as ling that it's make chips, I'm fine.
[04:18:13] <pink_vampire> long*
[04:20:00] <pink_vampire> I know the problem
[04:20:07] <pink_vampire> I need BALL end mill!
[04:21:41] <pink_vampire> Deejay: ^
[04:24:29] <Deejay> how many % is done?
[04:26:36] <pink_vampire> 50%
[04:26:52] <pink_vampire> exactly 50%
[04:27:05] <Deejay> oh, so will take some more time
[04:27:24] <pink_vampire> it's run about an hour.
[04:28:38] <pink_vampire> everything below 30 deg C!
[04:28:47] <pink_vampire> hour of running!
[04:28:53] <pink_vampire> that very nice
[04:30:51] <pink_vampire> I have a pcb to make.
[04:32:45] <pink_vampire> I want to power the stack light.
[04:34:59] <pink_vampire> it's so confusing if it running or not.
[04:39:37] <pink_vampire> 50 min to go :(
[05:01:55] <XXCoder> honme, I am
[05:02:07] <XXCoder> spell, I cant
[05:08:06] <XXCoder> miss0r: yo
[05:10:23] <Deejay> hi XXCoder
[05:10:30] <Deejay> wb home
[05:10:32] <XXCoder> whats up
[05:19:28] <pink_vampire> I finish the part by hand.
[05:19:41] <Deejay> is faster than milling? ;)
[05:20:14] <XXCoder> pink_vampire: you finlly fixed the Z overheating issue?
[05:20:15] <pink_vampire> I mean, I just run the machine manually,
[05:20:24] <pink_vampire> XXCoder: yes
[05:20:29] <pink_vampire> gib
[05:20:40] <XXCoder> what was wrong with gib
[05:20:50] <pink_vampire> it was too close.
[05:21:05] <XXCoder> to each other?
[05:31:54] <XXCoder> pink_vampire: so how did you fix it
[05:32:11] <pink_vampire> open the gib abit
[05:32:23] <XXCoder> pretty strightforward
[05:32:56] <pink_vampire> there is 2 screws that secure it
[05:39:09] <XXCoder> glad you finally solved that
[05:39:17] <XXCoder> I think I finally solved my van idle issues
[05:39:37] <XXCoder> I decided to just drive with it till it broke further
[05:39:49] <XXCoder> ans it did yeserday, o2 sensor stopped workin
[05:47:59] <pink_vampire> hooolyyy
[05:48:14] <pink_vampire> you have to see this
[05:48:28] <pink_vampire> http://ustre.am/1qGHt
[05:49:00] <pink_vampire> 1200 mm/min
[05:49:02] <Deejay> second half?
[05:49:07] <pink_vampire> yes
[05:49:13] <Deejay> yay, high speed :)
[05:49:16] <XXCoder> thats definitely decent speed
[05:50:33] <pink_vampire> wooow
[05:50:54] <XXCoder> wood?
[05:50:57] <pink_vampire> it's like the video of the pro machine
[05:51:00] <pink_vampire> yes.
[05:51:24] <XXCoder> man I really need to finish mine
[05:51:28] <XXCoder> and start making chips
[05:53:46] <pink_vampire> and I can go up to 5M/min
[05:54:48] <malcom2073> Whatcha making?
[05:55:30] <XXCoder> cutting pattern is.. werird
[05:55:33] <XXCoder> weird
[05:55:45] <pink_vampire> it's 3d cavity
[05:56:37] <pink_vampire> 55% done!
[05:56:42] <pink_vampire> wow that fast!
[05:56:44] <malcom2073> If there's one reason I'd go back to servos, it'd be to get that kind of speed out of my machine, that's damn fast heh
[05:57:25] <pink_vampire> malcom2073: no.. that 20% of the max speed.
[05:57:38] <malcom2073> pink_vampire: The rapids?
[05:57:48] <pink_vampire> yes,
[05:57:51] <malcom2073> Nice
[05:58:07] <Sync> you know you want it malcom2073
[05:58:16] <malcom2073> Sync: I do :P
[06:01:25] <pink_vampire> It
[06:01:36] <pink_vampire> it's just on 1200mm/min
[06:01:50] <pink_vampire> I can't go any faster because the wood floor.
[06:02:06] <pink_vampire> DONE!
[06:11:29] <pink_vampire> my BF just wake up because the earthquake
[06:11:59] <pink_vampire> so I slow it down to 1000 mm/min
[06:13:45] <pink_vampire> malcom2073: what is your max feed rate?
[06:14:07] <malcom2073> pink_vampire: I get around 600mm/minute
[06:14:24] <pink_vampire> that not bad at all.
[06:14:39] <pink_vampire> this is was I used to work all the time.
[06:14:50] <XXCoder> heh mines 200mm/min if I recall correctly
[06:15:02] <XXCoder> or was it 20mm/min hm forgot
[06:15:07] <XXCoder> doubt that low
[06:15:24] <pink_vampire> for engraver.. yes..
[06:15:54] <pink_vampire> it's dancing!
[06:16:15] <XXCoder> around and around and... leap!
[06:16:21] <pink_vampire> lol
[06:16:32] <pink_vampire> it's 100Kg table..
[06:16:44] <pink_vampire> but it move like nothing..
[06:18:33] <pink_vampire> I want thick solid concrete floor
[06:19:02] <XXCoder> vibrorations on floor can affect accuracy
[06:19:10] <XXCoder> not too much though
[06:20:27] <pink_vampire> datron can go up to 22m/min
[06:20:46] <pink_vampire> I can go just 10% of that :(
[06:35:17] <XXCoder> how close to done is it now?
[06:36:03] <XXCoder> apparently now lol
[06:36:37] <pink_vampire> done
[06:36:53] <XXCoder> funny how I asked right when it finished
[06:37:35] <pink_vampire> now I need to fix some places.
[06:37:56] <pink_vampire> because it was done with flat end mill not ball end mill
[06:40:41] <XXCoder> yeah
[06:40:49] <XXCoder> ball end is great for 3d shapes
[06:41:14] <pink_vampire> I've order 10 of 1/8"
[06:42:01] <pink_vampire> any idea for glue?
[06:42:07] <pink_vampire> jb-weld?
[06:42:20] <XXCoder> vibro weld lol
[06:42:41] <XXCoder> http://hackaday.com/2015/11/08/friction-welding-wood/
[06:43:20] <pink_vampire> wood to metal
[06:43:41] <XXCoder> I was kidding but reallty dunno
[06:44:07] <pink_vampire> I will go with jb weld
[07:31:51] * Polymorphism continues to agonize over cnc decision
[07:31:57] * Polymorphism would like to purchase this weekend
[07:32:09] <Polymorphism> my life will change soon, I will become cnc
[07:33:08] <maxcnc> hi folks its raining here
[07:33:18] <maxcnc> no familie egg eastern search
[07:33:30] <maxcnc> Polymorphism: did you come to a decision
[07:34:02] <Polymorphism> maxcnc, not yet
[07:34:10] <Polymorphism> but its looking like some variation of the 6040
[07:34:18] <Polymorphism> *maybe* 6090 if I find the room
[07:34:20] <maxcnc> pink_vampire: 22is quite fast
[07:34:37] <maxcnc> up to you
[07:34:41] <pink_vampire> maxcnc: did you saw the live video?
[07:34:57] <maxcnc> i told you to go massive on your own
[07:35:09] <maxcnc> lots of people bye twice on you need
[07:35:23] <maxcnc> hell of speed
[07:35:39] <Polymorphism> are you saying go bigger than I think I'll need?
[07:35:49] <Polymorphism> I'd rather hjave too much room than too little
[07:35:53] <maxcnc> we testet a C40 from Hermle at 500kg part waigt at 8m/min
[07:36:02] <Polymorphism> I read molre about making a guitar though. it looks very difficult even with cnc
[07:36:07] <Polymorphism> so I won't buy for that reason at all
[07:36:24] <maxcnc> mo not bigger Polymorphism go stiffer and heavier
[07:36:25] <Polymorphism> I will stick to my primary need, cutting small aluminum enclosures for electronic projects//products
[07:36:31] <Polymorphism> maxcnc, ah ok I see what you mean
[07:36:37] <SpeedEvil> A proper guitar, or an electric guitar?
[07:36:58] <maxcnc> a big mashine can always mill pcb
[07:37:08] <maxcnc> but a pcb will not mill your aluplate
[07:37:32] <maxcnc> SBR25 or even TBR25 is what you need
[07:37:40] <maxcnc> in the most 6040 are 12mm ones
[07:37:49] <Polymorphism> maxcnc, can tyou help me decide between these 2 machines? http://www.ebay.com/itm/3D-CNC-ROUTER-ENGRAVER-ENGRAVING-6040-DESKTOP-4AXIS-DRILLING-MILLING-MACHINE-US-/221354177332 or this one: http://www.omiocnc.com/x6-2200l-usb-3a-cnc-desktop-engraver.html
[07:37:55] <Polymorphism> the price is 1400, vs 2300
[07:38:01] <Polymorphism> I'm wondering if it's that much better
[07:38:02] <pink_vampire> omi
[07:38:02] <SpeedEvil> You really want >10000RPM spindle for PCB
[07:38:11] <Polymorphism> USB, a dust shroud for z axis, and better rails supposedly
[07:38:25] <Polymorphism> 3000-24000 rpm
[07:38:25] <SpeedEvil> so the stock spindle may not work of a big machine
[07:38:27] <Polymorphism> no problem there
[07:38:50] <maxcnc> i will not decide on your need between one of them
[07:39:06] <maxcnc> 4axis on that price is chees
[07:39:07] <Polymorphism> I just want to know if its built 900 better
[07:39:14] <Polymorphism> linear rail or something
[07:39:21] <Polymorphism> I don't fully understand
[07:39:24] <Polymorphism> better support I guess
[07:39:44] <Polymorphism> to an amateur like me the guide rods look just as good, but I don't know whats best yet
[07:40:38] <maxcnc> the hg20 will stand alu
[07:41:24] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: let's compered them
[07:41:29] <Polymorphism> ok
[07:41:43] <Polymorphism> the differences I can find pink_vampire
[07:41:49] <Polymorphism> USB for the x6 (but mach 3 ONLY they said)
[07:41:52] <pink_vampire> Screw Type - the same.
[07:42:00] <Polymorphism> so 2450 total for the x6
[07:42:13] <Polymorphism> I also see dust shroud on the x6 z axis
[07:42:17] <Polymorphism> I dont see the boot on the 6040
[07:42:24] <Polymorphism> and of course, linear guide rails
[07:42:33] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: you can change to other controller / lpt for very cheap.
[07:42:52] <Polymorphism> I wouldnt want to at that price though
[07:43:03] <Polymorphism> it would seem like a waste, what would I even do with the old controller
[07:43:12] <Polymorphism> throw it away? =S
[07:43:17] <Polymorphism> I doubt anyone would buy it on ebay
[07:43:20] <Polymorphism> maybe for really cheap
[07:43:43] <Polymorphism> I read about buying just the frame and adding electronics spindle etc
[07:43:52] <maxcnc> all hwins on that mashine are less then 250USD in price
[07:43:55] <Polymorphism> but they said you won't save any money that way and its a better deal to buy the kit
[07:44:11] <Polymorphism> hwin?
[07:44:12] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: the chip guard cnc os easy to make / get/
[07:44:49] <maxcnc> the mashine price is 850usd in parts
[07:45:14] <maxcnc> ali prices
[07:45:17] <pink_vampire> get the body. and put some servos,
[07:45:37] <pink_vampire> and use the controller that you like.
[07:45:47] <Polymorphism> I see what you mean
[07:46:03] <Polymorphism> how much work is it to go from a frame to adding motors and spindle + controller?
[07:46:06] <pink_vampire> but honestly, the X6 look very nice.
[07:46:07] <Polymorphism> I have to consider the time as well
[07:46:28] <pink_vampire> me.. 1 year..
[07:46:39] <Polymorphism> 1 year!?!?!
[07:46:48] <pink_vampire> maybe even more.
[07:46:57] <pink_vampire> I got the machine in 2014..
[07:47:02] <Polymorphism> thats too long for me
[07:47:10] <pink_vampire> get the X6
[07:47:12] <malcom2073> Polymorphism: You thinking of building your own machine now? :P
[07:47:21] <pink_vampire> look solid out of the box.
[07:47:29] <Polymorphism> malcom2073, was thinking of purchasing the 6040 frame adding linear HG20 rails and spindle etc
[07:47:43] <Polymorphism> I just wish it worked with linuxcnc
[07:47:54] <Polymorphism> they seemed to say it wouldnt when I emailed, maybe it can be made to work
[07:47:57] <malcom2073> Probably easier to build your own from scratch than to rebuild someone elses
[07:47:59] <Polymorphism> the thing is, I've never used linuxcnc, or mach 3
[07:48:00] <pink_vampire> you will end at the same price.. if now even more.
[07:48:09] <Polymorphism> ^thats my fear
[07:48:12] <pink_vampire> mach3 is super easy.
[07:48:12] <Polymorphism> plus the time invested
[07:48:19] <Polymorphism> what I mean to say is
[07:48:21] <malcom2073> The USB board won't work with linuxcnc
[07:48:22] <Polymorphism> I have no preference yet
[07:48:25] <Polymorphism> between linuxcnc and mach 3
[07:48:30] <pink_vampire> I can help you with mach3
[07:48:31] <malcom2073> The thing the USB board plugs into, will
[07:48:31] <Polymorphism> I love linux, I use it on all my machines
[07:48:42] <Polymorphism> but starting fresh with no exerience... maybe mach 3 is the best bet for me
[07:49:07] <Polymorphism> malcom2073, are you saying I could modify it?
[07:49:12] <Polymorphism> and add a parallel port as well or something
[07:49:24] <malcom2073> Mach3 is only easier because windows is easier, the actual application complexity is about the same for a simple 3 axis machine
[07:49:32] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: I'm using the C10 with LPT.
[07:49:44] <malcom2073> Polymorphism: Probably. The standard 6040 comes with a parallel port connector for hooking to the PC
[07:50:01] <Polymorphism> oh the spiundle is also 2.2kw
[07:50:02] <Polymorphism> vs 800w
[07:50:07] <Polymorphism> or 1.5kw I mean
[07:50:15] <Polymorphism> going back to comparing the two models for a moment
[07:50:24] <Polymorphism> rails, spindle, dust boot, usb
[07:50:29] <pink_vampire> go with the 2.2Kw if you want to cut metal.
[07:50:30] <Polymorphism> starting to sound worth the extra money
[07:50:42] <malcom2073> USB is a detriment fwiw, not a bonus
[07:51:05] <Polymorphism> why is that? I would mostly be getting it for the spindle and rails
[07:51:07] <malcom2073> parallel port works with either mach3 or linuxcnc. USB only works with mach3.
[07:51:12] <Polymorphism> I see
[07:51:18] <Polymorphism> but maybe it wouldnt be hard to modify?
[07:51:24] <pink_vampire> http://cnc4pc.com/c10-bi-directional-parallel-port-interface-card.html
[07:51:26] <Polymorphism> I REALLY like the idea of driving the machine with my laptop
[07:51:27] <maxcnc> im offf
[07:51:31] <Polymorphism> ttyl maxcnc
[07:51:47] <malcom2073> Yeah, you replace the USB board with what pink_vampire linked
[07:51:47] <Polymorphism> oh wow
[07:51:51] <malcom2073> then hook it to the parallel port
[07:51:52] <Polymorphism> could I wire both in parallel
[07:51:58] <Polymorphism> and use either one at a time
[07:52:04] <malcom2073> I wouldn't do that
[07:52:15] <Polymorphism> ok
[07:52:16] <pink_vampire> the c10 support 4 axis.
[07:52:22] <malcom2073> Hooking two devices to the same electrical signal lines can have undefined effects
[07:52:37] <pink_vampire> I have dual LPT and 2 C10 boards.
[07:52:45] <Polymorphism> wired in parallel?
[07:52:49] <Polymorphism> so it might work
[07:52:56] <Polymorphism> then I could choose usb or parallel
[07:53:06] <Polymorphism> although really usb would be nice... bring my laptop to the machine to cut
[07:53:23] <Polymorphism> I like open source and linuxcnc...
[07:53:23] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: NO!
[07:53:25] <malcom2073> Polymorphism: That's not how it works, you can't wire them together to the same axis's
[07:53:26] <Polymorphism> I'm just too new to know
[07:53:30] <pink_vampire> DONT DO THAT
[07:53:34] <Polymorphism> pink_vampire, ok
[07:53:52] <pink_vampire> get a dedicated computer for the machine.
[07:54:03] <Polymorphism> does it need to be very fast?
[07:54:07] <Polymorphism> I might be able to use my old desktop
[07:54:08] <pink_vampire> it have to work close to realtime.
[07:54:15] <Polymorphism> core 2 duo fast enough?
[07:54:15] <Polymorphism> or no
[07:54:19] <Polymorphism> 2.4ghz
[07:54:21] <malcom2073> Plus isn't mach3 windows xp?
[07:54:31] <pink_vampire> 2ghz with 1gb ram will be fine.
[07:54:33] <Polymorphism> I do already have windows xp on my laptop as a dual boot with arch linux
[07:54:57] <Polymorphism> you're saying for someone new to cnc linuxcnc is no more difficult than mach 3?
[07:55:00] <pink_vampire> so go with it.
[07:55:09] <malcom2073> Polymorphism: For someone who has used linux previously, yes
[07:55:16] <malcom2073> For someone who has never touched linux? mach3 would be easier
[07:55:17] <Polymorphism> ok yes I only use linux so no problem there
[07:55:25] <pink_vampire> also with mach3 you can use the probe.
[07:55:31] <Polymorphism> the tool probe?
[07:55:45] <Polymorphism> for setting tool length offset?
[07:55:47] <pink_vampire> for fine edge and center
[07:55:58] <malcom2073> pink_vampire: You can do that with linuxcnc too, though I'm not familiar with that setup
[07:56:32] <pink_vampire> with mach3 it's part from the interface.
[07:56:48] <malcom2073> mach3 is significantly more user friendly I'll give it that
[07:56:52] <pink_vampire> but mach3 is full of bugs,
[07:57:05] <Polymorphism> hmm
[07:57:17] <Polymorphism> mach3 probably has more support I would think as well
[07:57:24] <Polymorphism> looks like almost everyone on this cnc forum I found is using it
[07:57:30] <Polymorphism> again, I have nothing against linuxcnc
[07:57:32] <malcom2073> mach3 is supported by a small team, linuxcnc is supported (technically) by thousands of developers :P
[07:57:38] <Polymorphism> I just want to pick whats easiest for someone new who just wants to start cutting
[07:57:40] <pink_vampire> one bug that I have is the machine can move the axis and you have to hit E-stop.
[07:57:57] <Polymorphism> what happens if yhou dont hit e stop?
[07:58:00] <Polymorphism> will the machine be damaged
[07:58:21] <malcom2073> Polymorphism: linuxcnc is free. Try it, if you don't like it, buy mach3
[07:58:33] <pink_vampire> never happened (yet)
[07:58:34] <Polymorphism> I wont be able to if I go with the x6 it sounds like
[07:58:48] <Polymorphism> looks like the x6 has or supports limit switches
[07:58:59] <Polymorphism> I dont even know what those are used for but I would think protection against overtravel
[07:59:29] <Polymorphism> lance chen from omio answered my email within an hour
[07:59:34] <pink_vampire> but servo that run fast.. just keep going.
[08:01:02] <Polymorphism> its looking like the x6
[08:01:30] <pink_vampire> ...
[08:02:06] <Polymorphism> probably not worth getting the 4th axis
[08:02:10] <Polymorphism> I think I can add that later anyway
[08:02:18] <Polymorphism> and I read it might not be the best quality compared to the rest of the machine
[08:02:30] <Polymorphism> and its not a deal
[08:02:38] <Polymorphism> the added price looks to be the same of purchasing the 4th axis separate
[08:02:39] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: you know any cad program?
[08:02:50] <Polymorphism> pink_vampire, librecad and I've used autocad in the pat
[08:03:05] <pink_vampire> and any cam?
[08:03:22] <Polymorphism> no
[08:03:27] <pink_vampire> ok..
[08:03:49] <pink_vampire> just forgot about 4th axis for about a year..
[08:04:23] <Polymorphism> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/Disc_with_dental_implants_made_with_WorkNC.jpg
[08:04:35] <Polymorphism> not really related, I just thought it was cool
[08:04:39] <pink_vampire> you have to be super familiar with 3axis to be able to use 4th axis properly,
[08:04:50] <Polymorphism> ok
[08:04:54] <Polymorphism> I'll stick with just 3 axis for now then
[08:04:59] <Polymorphism> and add the 4th later if I feel the need
[08:05:05] <archivist> pink_vampire, not true
[08:05:08] <Polymorphism> engraving pens would be nice
[08:05:26] <pink_vampire> you can do it with 3 axis as well.
[08:05:37] <Polymorphism> with 2 setups?
[08:06:30] <pink_vampire> if it all around yeah.. but for some thing like "I love you"
[08:06:51] <pink_vampire> you can just use the 3axis
[08:06:55] <Polymorphism> http://www.kinektdesign.com/product-gear-ring.php
[08:06:58] <Polymorphism> could I make this? with the 6040
[08:07:10] <Polymorphism> I see what you mean, ok
[08:07:41] <pink_vampire> you need a lathe for the ring.
[08:07:52] <archivist> 3 axis would be prettur useless for that ring
[08:08:15] <pink_vampire> and 4th axis or some tricks to do it with 3 axis.
[08:08:20] <archivist> lathe and 4th axis on the mill
[08:08:39] <pink_vampire> so you have cad model for that??
[08:08:45] <Polymorphism> I can't cut the ring from a block?
[08:08:53] <Polymorphism> no I was just curious if the machine was capable of producing something similar
[08:09:10] <Polymorphism> trying to understand what these machines are capable of
[08:09:12] <Polymorphism> beyond my needs
[08:09:19] <Polymorphism> just to see what else I could do with it
[08:09:29] <Polymorphism> maybe as a side business or for gifts etc
[08:09:43] <pink_vampire> laser cutter
[08:10:08] <archivist> I make gears and regular shapes 4th axis makes that easy
[08:10:20] <Polymorphism> http://www.omiocnc.com/x6-2200l-4a/
[08:10:29] <Polymorphism> this 4th axis probably cant handle it though, or can it?
[08:10:32] <Polymorphism> not sure how quality it is
[08:11:04] <Polymorphism> this machine probably can't cut steel anyway
[08:11:10] <Polymorphism> but for alu maybe
[08:11:39] <Polymorphism> the guy from carbide 3d told me the nomad 883 can cut titanium
[08:11:53] <SpeedEvil> any machine can cut anything.
[08:11:55] <SpeedEvil> Pretty much.
[08:12:04] <archivist> it has proper rails that the others dont have
[08:12:09] <Polymorphism> with 100w spindle
[08:12:11] <SpeedEvil> It's a question of at what rate, and can it do it usefully
[08:12:18] <pink_vampire> you can cut steel but it will be sloow
[08:12:27] <pink_vampire> and ugly finish
[08:12:37] <Polymorphism> archivist, the x6 has proper rails compared to the generic 6040s youre saying?
[08:12:44] <Polymorphism> it sounds like this is worth the price
[08:12:46] <SpeedEvil> If your machine is not rigid enough and you have to use tiny bits that shatter because it wobbles often, then though you can sometimes cut, ...
[08:12:55] <archivist> Polymorphism, neowhatever
[08:13:14] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: look
[08:13:52] <archivist> all are light machines compared to a real mill though
[08:13:53] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: http://imgur.com/a/upWXY
[08:14:21] <Polymorphism> oh wow ok
[08:14:23] <Polymorphism> nice
[08:14:29] <Polymorphism> and I could probably cut 1mm steel plate?
[08:14:32] <Polymorphism> or engrave
[08:14:37] <Polymorphism> and engrave*
[08:14:49] <pink_vampire> this is a part from mild steel. that i did - I took me 40 min to cut it!
[08:15:16] <Polymorphism> the first picture shows the block you started wwith?
[08:15:16] <pink_vampire> with engraver it will be the same of slower.
[08:15:24] <Polymorphism> what size is this part
[08:15:37] <pink_vampire> 20mm by 14.5mm
[08:15:47] <pink_vampire> 6mm thick
[08:16:12] <Polymorphism> http://carbide3d.com/projects/ti-multitool/
[08:16:24] <pink_vampire> http://i.imgur.com/2jk7wO4.png
[08:16:46] <pink_vampire> that one is aluminum and it's took about 20min each side.
[08:17:08] <Polymorphism> you made that one recerntly, rightr?
[08:17:15] <Polymorphism> what is that for
[08:17:32] <pink_vampire> http://i.imgur.com/sq3g4Yh.png
[08:17:47] <pink_vampire> holding wire duct on a rail.
[08:18:40] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: I never tried to cut titanium,
[08:18:59] <pink_vampire> http://i.imgur.com/yrjddyh.png
[08:19:09] <pink_vampire> just 3 axis.
[08:19:36] <Polymorphism> so even 3 axis can do 3d
[08:19:40] <pink_vampire> than flip it http://i.imgur.com/bMZt37d.png
[08:19:46] <pink_vampire> YES!
[08:19:58] <pink_vampire> it's all about your CAM program
[08:20:28] <pink_vampire> good CAM program can do some nice stuff.
[08:20:56] <Polymorphism> hmm
[08:20:59] <archivist> cam is not a lot of use for truly round parts
[08:21:03] <Polymorphism> so I need more than just mach3 + librecad
[08:21:07] <Polymorphism> what is CAM, 3d?
[08:21:08] <Polymorphism> and cad is 2d?
[08:21:26] <Polymorphism> I need one more software
[08:21:45] <pink_vampire> cad = solidworks, autocad etc..
[08:22:12] <pink_vampire> cam = hsmexpress meshcam pycam mastercam solidcam etc..
[08:22:24] <archivist> some parts need no cad or cam, just a brain and programming in gcode
[08:22:53] <pink_vampire> controller = mach3, mach4, linux cnc, arduino grbl, etc.
[08:23:12] <archivist> mach is swearing in here
[08:24:04] <Polymorphism> it looks like decent software
[08:24:08] <Polymorphism> to someone with no experiuence in any of this
[08:24:47] <Polymorphism> whatever has me protoyping the most rapidly and with the least effort is probably whats best
[08:24:48] <pink_vampire> first you make the part in the CAD program> than you move it to the CAM program and make all the tool paths. and make a gcode file> then you run the Gcode file on your cnc CONTROLLER.
[08:25:01] <Polymorphism> I see
[08:25:10] <Polymorphism> so how do I get dxf from librecad to gcode
[08:25:15] <Polymorphism> wiuthout CAM program
[08:25:39] <pink_vampire> learn how to use cam program.
[08:25:45] <pink_vampire> you have to.
[08:25:47] <Polymorphism> so I need a CAM program as well?
[08:25:51] <Polymorphism> this is no problem, I just want to be sure
[08:26:01] <Polymorphism> and plan all costs
[08:26:03] <pink_vampire> without it you can't do much with your cnc.
[08:26:10] <Polymorphism> is there open source CAM?
[08:26:32] <pink_vampire> I'm about to get hsmworks
[08:26:44] <pink_vampire> it's very expensive,
[08:27:00] <pink_vampire> and you can do anything with it.
[08:27:16] <pink_vampire> F360 it's free for hobby use.
[08:27:52] <pink_vampire> hsmexpress is very good 2.5d cam program. - free!
[08:28:14] <pink_vampire> pycam - free but shit.
[08:28:30] <Polymorphism> ok
[08:28:47] <Polymorphism> so HSMexpress, librecad, and only need to purchase mach3 or modify controller for LPT
[08:28:54] <Polymorphism> because linuxcnc doesnt work with usb for some reason?
[08:29:18] <archivist> usb is useless
[08:29:21] <pink_vampire> you will get the mach3 with your machine
[08:29:27] <Polymorphism> mach3 is included?
[08:29:34] <archivist> has delays that screw up mach as well
[08:29:56] <Polymorphism> http://www.omiocnc.com/x6-2200l-4a/
[08:30:48] <pink_vampire> X/Y/Z Stepper Motor ： 57BYGH76-3A/150N.cm
[08:31:11] <archivist> Polymorphism, we are not a website reading service
[08:31:27] <pink_vampire> 212 that in oz in.
[08:32:05] <pink_vampire> i know people use 350ozin for the G0704.
[08:32:14] <pink_vampire> so.. it's ok..
[08:32:16] <Polymorphism> archivist, what? I was just linking you the model thats being discussed
[08:32:18] <Polymorphism> in case you missed it
[08:32:45] <Polymorphism> 212 oz/in?
[08:32:53] <pink_vampire> yes.
[08:32:55] * Polymorphism goes to look at generic 6040 specs
[08:32:58] <archivist> Polymorphism, you should read that blurb it has factual mistakes
[08:33:09] <pink_vampire> it's the torque of the motor
[08:33:15] <Polymorphism> I saw that archivist, its poor translation
[08:33:46] <archivist> glass is not plastic and stainless is not non ferous
[08:33:58] <Polymorphism> lol
[08:34:23] <BitEvil> archivist: It can be
[08:34:24] <archivist> with over selling like that I run a mile
[08:34:41] <archivist> BitEvil, bollocks
[08:34:45] <BitEvil> (that is - there are SS grades with no iron I thought
[08:34:46] <pink_vampire> http://www.ebay.com/itm/3D-CNC-ROUTER-ENGRAVER-ENGRAVING-6040-DESKTOP-4AXIS-DRILLING-MILLING-MACHINE-US-/221354177332
[08:34:53] <pink_vampire> Stepping motor: two-phase 57/3A
[08:34:59] <pink_vampire> what is that??
[08:35:04] <archivist> BitEvil, how else can it be stainless STEEL
[08:35:50] <pink_vampire> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wantai-3PCS-Nema23-Stepper-Motor-57BYGH627-270oz-in-3A-Bipolar-Single-Shaft-/221401774154?hash=item338c92f84a:g:EEsAAOxydINSV6Zw
[08:35:52] <archivist> yes there are two basic stainless types, chrome and nickel
[08:35:55] <pink_vampire> that one maybe?
[08:36:37] <SpeedEvil> archivist: Sorry - I blame not enough coffee/cocaine/rohypnol.
[08:36:57] <Polymorphism> it doesnt look like it says
[08:37:30] <Polymorphism> it looks like I could just upgrade the motors for not much money later if they are inadequate?
[08:37:56] <SpeedEvil> archivist: I could claim I meant that it's reasonable to call 330, for example, non-ferrous. But I diddn't.
[08:37:58] <pink_vampire> to upgrade motor to servo it's about 300$ per axis.
[08:38:03] <SpeedEvil> (as it has under 50% Fe)
[08:38:28] <Polymorphism> I'm confused now
[08:38:38] <Polymorphism> are the motors on the x6 ok? are they worse than the generic 6040?
[08:38:39] <archivist> stainless often work hardens a lot
[08:39:05] <pink_vampire> by 50oz.in
[08:39:14] <pink_vampire> but the rails much much better.
[08:39:40] <pink_vampire> so maybe you have less resistance from the rails.
[08:39:54] <R2E4> anyone know if mesa 78i77 can take optical encoders ph a b c ?
[08:39:58] <Polymorphism> ok
[08:40:26] <Polymorphism> sounds like its still the best option
[08:40:47] <pink_vampire> the rails on the 6040 has some flex.
[08:40:50] <R2E4> The motors have incremental encoders that go into the drives, but oput of the drives are optical signals.
[08:41:06] <R2E4> line drivers
[08:41:36] <Polymorphism> x6 has linear rails, less flex
[08:42:42] <Polymorphism> pink_vampire, what can you tell me about 220 vs 120?
[08:42:46] <Polymorphism> the collet looks like a different size?
[08:42:54] <Polymorphism> http://www.omiocnc.com/media/wysiwyg/products/x6-2200usb/5-spindle.jpg
[08:43:03] <gregcnc> this might be a record
[08:43:09] <Polymorphism> they look like totally different spindles
[08:43:33] <pink_vampire> are you in the us?
[08:43:36] <Polymorphism> yes
[08:43:37] <pink_vampire> 110?
[08:43:47] <pink_vampire> so ER16
[08:43:55] <pink_vampire> it's fine.
[08:44:03] <Polymorphism> oh ok
[08:44:07] <Polymorphism> I don't know why I was confusing it with 240v
[08:44:45] <pink_vampire> er 20 can use larger diameter end mills
[08:45:33] <pink_vampire> er 16 can go up to 3/8"
[08:46:01] <pink_vampire> and er20 can go up to 1/2"
[08:46:11] <Polymorphism> will this be an issue?
[08:46:16] <pink_vampire> not a problem at all
[08:46:36] <Polymorphism> ok so every mill bit I will need for the machines capabilities is available in 3/8"
[08:46:42] <pink_vampire> I did the boob with 3/4" end mill.
[08:46:49] <Polymorphism> ok xD
[08:47:13] <pink_vampire> other then that I'm using 3/8 most of the time.
[08:47:53] <pink_vampire> for panels you need very small stuff so they come with 1/8"
[08:48:12] <Polymorphism> I need 1/32" even for pcb I read
[08:48:21] <Polymorphism> it depends on the machine thogh I would think
[08:48:26] <Polymorphism> and its resolution capabilities
[08:48:40] <pink_vampire> but the 1/32" use 1/8" shank.
[08:49:01] <Polymorphism> ??
[08:49:05] <Polymorphism> is there an adapter
[08:49:11] <pink_vampire> yes.
[08:49:18] <pink_vampire> you get it with the machine.
[08:49:27] <Polymorphism> oh, nice
[08:49:33] <pink_vampire> and if not is very cheap.
[08:50:15] <pink_vampire> from omiocnc website ◎ Comes standard with: 6mm collet * 1 ，3.175mm collet * 1.
[08:50:25] <pink_vampire> 3.175 it's 1/8"
[08:50:48] <Polymorphism> no problem then
[08:51:05] <Polymorphism> "(Prohibit the installation of any other software except Mach3.)"
[08:51:15] <Polymorphism> not happy about that, but I could modify the controller later for LPT
[08:51:44] <pink_vampire> yes, it's super easy.
[08:52:07] <pink_vampire> you can order the C10, is very easy to wire
[08:52:11] <Polymorphism> I just noticed, it also comes with another extra compared to the 6040 generic
[08:52:13] <Polymorphism> the wireless control
[08:52:30] <pink_vampire> it's nice.
[08:52:55] <Polymorphism> I don't quite understand
[08:52:56] <pink_vampire> I'm using also remote
[08:53:00] <pink_vampire> but better.
[08:53:01] <Polymorphism> it connects to the control box?
[08:53:10] <Polymorphism> and accesses hidden features there are no buttons for
[08:53:17] <Polymorphism> that you would need to control from the software on pc normally
[08:53:18] <Polymorphism> is that right?
[08:53:28] <pink_vampire> http://i.imgur.com/RXNRYtX.png
[08:53:40] <gregcnc> plenty of CAM output G2,3 if you need it, just make sure it supports it
[08:53:40] <pink_vampire> short nails XD
[08:54:09] <Polymorphism> xD
[08:54:09] <pink_vampire> yes, you use it for setup,
[08:54:25] <Polymorphism> so I can zero and move the spindle around etc
[08:54:27] <Polymorphism> without touching pc
[08:54:30] <Polymorphism> I understand
[08:54:42] <pink_vampire> yes,
[08:55:11] <Polymorphism> "now we directly sale X6-2200 to global only via omiocnc.com , if any other store(or webstore) sell it, that's must be a fake."
[08:55:12] <pink_vampire> if you don't have one you can use the keyboard.
[08:55:18] <Polymorphism> they are almost implying they are the original 6040 type machine
[08:55:24] <Polymorphism> ok
[08:55:29] <Polymorphism> I like the idea of the controller, nice bonus
[08:55:33] <Polymorphism> remote*
[08:55:51] <Polymorphism> well I guess they are just saying x6, I just wonder which came first
[08:55:54] <Polymorphism> the x6 or the 6040
[08:56:47] <pink_vampire> I know about the 6040 for years..
[08:57:00] <pink_vampire> I think the X6 is newer.
[08:57:11] <gregcnc> R2E4 7i77 supports single ended or differential quadrature encoder with index
[08:57:41] <zeeshan> nothin like
[08:57:45] <zeeshan> early morning machining
[08:58:05] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: do you want to chat with voice?
[08:58:32] <Polymorphism> maybe later today I can find mic, I was about to eat breakfast right now xD
[08:58:39] <Polymorphism> been researching cnc instead of eating
[08:59:15] <zeeshan> R2E4: i have optical encoders going directly to the 7i77
[08:59:23] <zeeshan> but it really depends on what the output is on the encoders
[08:59:25] <zeeshan> they need to be ttl
[08:59:40] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: i did it also years ago..
[09:02:54] <Polymorphism> I'll return in a little bit, ttyl
[09:03:17] <Deejay> have a good meal
[09:03:21] <Polymorphism> http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7331826#7331826 impressive 6040 work
[09:03:22] <Polymorphism> Deejay, ty
[09:04:50] <pink_vampire> https://youtu.be/1MktzSPTzJ4
[09:04:58] <pink_vampire> you meant to this?
[09:05:35] <Polymorphism> yes, and the picture of the final result looking like its been red anodized
[09:05:58] <Polymorphism> making a real part for a repair, this is the type of thing that really sells me on cnc
[09:06:13] <zeeshan> thats pretty good
[09:06:19] <zeeshan> on that pos router :D
[09:07:14] <pink_vampire> with high speed spindle you don't have to apply force,
[09:07:30] <zeeshan> theres always force
[09:07:39] <zeeshan> its dictated by your feed per tooth
[09:07:41] <pink_vampire> it's more like sanding then milling.
[09:07:45] <Polymorphism> how do the supports get removed?
[09:07:49] <Polymorphism> when you mill a 3d part
[09:08:09] <pink_vampire> it's not.
[09:08:23] <Polymorphism> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/Disc_with_dental_implants_made_with_WorkNC.jpg
[09:08:24] <Polymorphism> like that pic
[09:08:27] <Polymorphism> is that as far as the machine takes it
[09:08:32] <pink_vampire> get a machine with long travel on the z axis.
[09:08:33] <archivist> file, saw, clever mounting
[09:08:34] <Polymorphism> and then you hand remove and clean up the edge?
[09:08:46] <zeeshan> pliers
[09:08:47] <zeeshan> :P
[09:09:11] <pink_vampire> ok... that support..
[09:09:50] <Polymorphism> and in his video as well
[09:09:51] <pink_vampire> i thought you meant to table
[09:10:03] <Polymorphism> there must come a time where the part is being milled, but has to be removed from the block completely
[09:10:08] <Polymorphism> but still held secure
[09:10:17] <Polymorphism> I have a lot to learn about this
[09:10:36] <pink_vampire> it's very easy/
[09:10:37] <zeeshan> Polymorphism: i leave a 0.010 skin
[09:10:39] <zeeshan> "
[09:10:42] <zeeshan> at the bottom
[09:10:47] <zeeshan> and just use a screw driver to poke a hole
[09:10:50] <zeeshan> if its aluminum
[09:11:39] <pink_vampire> I'm using very strong double sided tape
[09:12:03] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: http://i.imgur.com/701peEs.png
[09:12:07] <pink_vampire> look here.
[09:12:17] <archivist> tape breaks light thin items on removal
[09:12:20] <pink_vampire> zero support.
[09:12:34] <pink_vampire> archivist: not that one..
[09:12:37] <CaptHindsight> does it work if you leave .002" for steel?
[09:12:39] <Polymorphism> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puI23x4j8qs&t=12m0s
[09:12:47] <Polymorphism> in this video it looks like he has to use a plasma cutter to finish the job?
[09:12:50] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: i leave 0.005" for steel
[09:12:53] <zeeshan> havent gone down to 0.002
[09:12:56] <zeeshan> im sure it'd work
[09:14:12] <Polymorphism> gtg for real, bbl
[09:17:08] <CaptHindsight> just FYI Machinery's Handbook 28th edition https://doc-0c-bo-docs.googleusercontent.com/docs/securesc/ha0ro937gcuc7l7deffksulhg5h7mbp1/fbue4imktfjfr23bljgh1ge7jkqdc4e6/1458871200000/03887925090977036069/*/0BwMSCZJ_SEEhaDV4RzEyUFYtM2c?e=download
[09:17:23] <CaptHindsight> while it lasts
[09:17:31] <gregcnc> Have they updated it since the 12th edition?
[09:18:08] <CaptHindsight> is paper to pdf an update?
[09:23:27] <pink_vampire> CaptHindsight: i get white page
[09:27:27] <CaptHindsight> 12th Edition Published by The Industrial Press., New York, 1942
[09:28:10] <CaptHindsight> http://www.abebooks.com/Machinerys-Handbook-12th-Edition-Oberg-Erik/1181338328/bd only $30
[09:28:55] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: link is dead
[09:29:06] <Jymmm> pdf
[09:29:48] <CaptHindsight> maybe it maxed out it's bits
[09:30:05] <gregcnc> how does google clean their drive content like that? I get stuff showing up in searches that's taken down
[09:31:28] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: try https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwMSCZJ_SEEhaDV4RzEyUFYtM2c/view?pref=2&pli=1
[09:31:34] <zeeshan> to be honest
[09:31:40] <zeeshan> i find the machinery's handbook pretty useless
[09:31:53] <gregcnc> my point about 12th edition
[09:32:03] <zeeshan> it
[09:32:07] <zeeshan> it's oversaturated
[09:32:10] <zeeshan> unorganized
[09:32:28] <CaptHindsight> you have to put it in your brain
[09:32:32] <gregcnc> how would you organize it
[09:32:38] <CaptHindsight> and hope it sorts it out
[09:32:44] <zeeshan> gregcnc: more like engineer's black book
[09:33:02] <CaptHindsight> like the Fishermans Bible
[09:33:53] <CaptHindsight> don't waste you time remembering anything that you can look up
[09:34:09] <CaptHindsight> focus on understanding concepts
[09:36:07] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: TY
[09:36:28] <gregcnc> darwin trying hard http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2016/03/24/man-loses-leg-shooting-lawnmower-full-explosives/82232440/
[09:38:01] <CaptHindsight> it's his right to do it to himself
[09:38:23] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: i have that exact version
[09:38:24] <zeeshan> that you linked to
[09:38:26] <zeeshan> but the problem is
[09:38:32] <zeeshan> see if you can do this:
[09:38:43] <zeeshan> go to page 6
[09:38:54] <CaptHindsight> easy
[09:38:56] <zeeshan> and under the title machining operations
[09:39:00] <zeeshan> click on 975
[09:39:01] <zeeshan> what happens?
[09:39:13] <gregcnc> I just open the book to 975
[09:40:13] <CaptHindsight> some links works, some don't
[09:40:40] <CaptHindsight> it's a massive pdf, not sure what app they used to create it
[09:41:49] <gregcnc> I have an original digital version and never use it
[09:41:50] <CaptHindsight> 3k page hardcopy is like flipping through the phone book
[09:42:02] <gregcnc> yeah I have a large text version
[09:42:08] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: the hard copy is easier to use
[09:42:11] <zeeshan> in my opinion
[09:42:18] <CaptHindsight> to each his own
[09:42:41] <gregcnc> the digital copy doesn't get dirty
[09:43:02] <CaptHindsight> most of my books went into boxes years ago, I rarely pull them out
[09:43:23] <zeeshan> you should see my shigleys book
[09:43:28] <zeeshan> and atlas of stress-strain
[09:43:35] <zeeshan> it indexed to nuts
[09:43:39] <zeeshan> for all the things i usually use it for
[09:44:27] <zeeshan> i think if work would buy me a tablet
[09:44:40] <zeeshan> id convert to all pdf
[09:44:41] <zeeshan> :D
[09:46:27] <MattyMatt_> I got a $50 tablet for reading pdf, but I'd splash $100 for a retina display if I was spending work cash
[09:46:57] <zeeshan> do they make a tough ipad
[09:47:04] <zeeshan> kinda like the tough books by panasonic
[09:47:04] <MattyMatt_> and my eyesight has started to age, so I'd go 10"
[09:47:08] <CaptHindsight> MattyMatt_: for the higher res? or for color?
[09:47:26] <MattyMatt_> get a cheapo tablet and machine a hard case
[09:47:34] <zeeshan> http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/07/duros-8404-rugged-tablet-atom.jpg
[09:47:36] <zeeshan> oo i like this
[09:48:08] <MattyMatt_> for higher res
[09:48:38] <MattyMatt_> scrolling around a page sucks
[09:48:43] <CaptHindsight> I liked the display they had for the last OLPC
[09:49:11] <CaptHindsight> active and passive, great indoors and sunlight readable
[09:49:42] <CaptHindsight> a 4k version would be great
[09:51:05] <CaptHindsight> btw http://www.androidauthority.com/amoled-displays-now-cheaper-than-lcd-682080/
[09:51:34] <MattyMatt_> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Cube-Talk-9X-3G-Tablet-U65GT-9-7-Inch-Retina-OGS-Screen-Octa-Core-MT8392-2048/32255019856.html
[09:51:44] <CaptHindsight> maybe we'll see some better displays
[09:51:45] <MattyMatt_> nice prices on lcd tho
[09:52:00] <MattyMatt_> and they are plenty good enough for pdf
[09:52:28] <MattyMatt_> e-ink probably better if you can get 300dpi at least
[09:53:10] <CaptHindsight> e-ink combined with retina
[09:53:30] <MattyMatt_> you rarely need colour in pdf
[09:53:31] <CaptHindsight> best of everything
[09:54:03] <archivist> you cant get ofer multiple page viewing at one time and large drawings on them
[09:54:07] <archivist> over
[09:54:32] <MattyMatt_> no centrefolds :)
[09:55:13] <MattyMatt_> there are large format e-ink displays for shop posters etc.
[09:55:33] <MattyMatt_> not 300+dpi tho
[09:57:01] <archivist> buuut for multiple page and separate zoom http://www.collection.archivist.info/diva/systrondonner1626.html#p=127&z=1
[09:57:09] <MattyMatt_> 2560x1536 is the resolution that killed off my last CRTs :(
[09:57:21] <CaptHindsight> e-wallpaper
[09:57:36] <archivist> e-turds
[09:57:38] <CaptHindsight> e-banner
[09:58:24] <CaptHindsight> heh, that describes the past 12 hours of this channel
[09:58:29] <MattyMatt_> those flexible amoleds are almost to market, I saw on the 'news'
[09:59:22] <CaptHindsight> driven by profit
[10:00:55] <CaptHindsight> not complicated to make, but you have to choose a path with the lowest cost patents or keep quiet about how you are making them
[10:03:41] <MattyMatt_> any want to swap a boxford backplate for a blank one?
[10:04:02] <MattyMatt_> stuffing this one with PCL isn't quite working
[10:04:46] <MattyMatt_> almost tho. just gotta get it clocked in before it cools.
[10:06:30] <MattyMatt_> when I tried to find why my nose is 1.25"x7tpi I found it's a standard whitworth size. whoever designed this lathe sure loved whitworth
[10:06:57] <MattyMatt_> the leadscrew was 3/8x16 LH whitworth :p
[10:08:26] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20160325-andrew-bunnie-huang-tears-down-form-2-3d-printer-reveals-stunning-internal-craftsmanship.html still not sure why you'd want this over a LCD/DLP version for small format
[10:09:39] <MattyMatt_> is it steerable laser?
[10:09:56] <CaptHindsight> uses a galvo for steering
[10:10:24] <MattyMatt_> that's the same appeal as CRT. analog steering gives arbitrary res
[10:10:52] <CaptHindsight> well, lets see, you can't vary the beam width
[10:11:52] <MattyMatt_> you can vary scanning speed tho, and even if focus isn't perfect it'll likely be strongest in the middle
[10:12:18] <MattyMatt_> so you can squeeze out a bit better than beam width
[10:12:20] <CaptHindsight> and there's just so many bits of res they limit the controls to
[10:12:42] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: do you own a 3d printer
[10:12:43] <zeeshan> for personal use
[10:12:44] <MattyMatt_> true that, but even 12 bit is better than pixels
[10:12:47] <CaptHindsight> but they don't and it slow slow slow
[10:13:51] <pcw_home> a laser printer can do 13/14 bit resolution on 8.5x11 and is cheap
[10:14:08] <MattyMatt_> that's 2d
[10:14:29] <pcw_home> right
[10:14:43] <MattyMatt_> SLA 3d printers use a projector, so it's basically screen res
[10:14:49] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: I've been doing additive manufacturing R&D for the past several years, materials and deposition tech, so I use the ones at work
[10:14:58] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: i know you do
[10:15:03] <MattyMatt_> or they use a steerable laser, for low speed and high res
[10:15:04] <zeeshan> you sent me a nice photopolymer :)
[10:15:11] <zeeshan> theres a guy whos using it now
[10:15:12] <zeeshan> the left over
[10:15:27] <zeeshan> to put dots all over a metal specimen
[10:15:52] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: similar app?
[10:15:56] <zeeshan> no
[10:16:00] <zeeshan> he's putting it directly on metal
[10:16:01] <Encapsulation> back
[10:16:03] <zeeshan> mine was on polymer
[10:16:20] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: it is sticking well enough?
[10:16:28] <zeeshan> i dont know yet
[10:16:31] <zeeshan> havent talked to him :D
[10:16:32] <CaptHindsight> I can send something for metal
[10:16:45] <zeeshan> see it doesnt really need to adhere well
[10:16:45] <pcw_home> just saying if you want high res (but low energy) a laser printer type raster scan has a lot of advantages
[10:16:50] <zeeshan> its just moderate
[10:16:56] <zeeshan> because a punch comes from the other side and deforms the metal
[10:17:06] <zeeshan> the photopolymer is just stuck on the other side
[10:17:36] <CaptHindsight> let me know, I can send something to add to it to make it stick to metal more better
[10:17:38] <MattyMatt_> pcw_home yeah but a 2d galvo does the job OK with less hardware
[10:17:49] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: how come form labs's printer is such a small build volume
[10:17:54] <zeeshan> why dont these guys make big stuff?
[10:17:59] <zeeshan> its not like it'll increase cost by much
[10:18:22] <pcw_home> a 2 d galvo is inaccurate and slow
[10:18:26] <CaptHindsight> people seem enamored with it for some reason
[10:19:05] <CaptHindsight> their marketing/branding must appeal to them
[10:19:24] <MattyMatt_> pixels + jitter seems like the most effective way to me. interlace
[10:19:30] <zeeshan> resin pretty expensive
[10:19:32] <CaptHindsight> most people that contact us about resin for it are not very technical
[10:19:36] <zeeshan> https://ember.autodesk.com/shop
[10:19:37] <zeeshan> look at this
[10:19:41] <zeeshan> 120$ for 1L!
[10:20:05] <CaptHindsight> we sell it by the pail and drum for <$40/L
[10:20:17] <zeeshan> okay so its just overpriced by them
[10:20:34] <CaptHindsight> yeah we get calls all day long
[10:20:58] <zeeshan> do you think fdm is cheaper in terms of consumables
[10:21:13] <CaptHindsight> in low volume
[10:21:29] <CaptHindsight> PLA is ~$20/Kg for filament
[10:21:42] <CaptHindsight> let me check the latest price
[10:21:58] <zeeshan> i 'd like to buy a 3d printer by mid summer
[10:22:00] <MattyMatt_> or large format using nurdles, like endless chair
[10:22:01] <CaptHindsight> well in pellet form PLA is <$2/lb
[10:22:10] <zeeshan> i was mostly looking at fdm because they seem to come in larger form factors
[10:22:18] <zeeshan> and its easier to modify
[10:22:24] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/pricecompare/
[10:22:28] <zeeshan> but sla is clearly boss in quality and precision
[10:22:47] <MattyMatt_> <gthx> endless chair is Dirk van der Kooij's giant printer http://postero.us/chair.mp4 and is also http://vimeo.com/33026239
[10:23:45] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: i got a q.
[10:23:50] <zeeshan> with dlp/sla
[10:23:53] <MattyMatt_> print head for that could be made from a normal screw IM machine
[10:24:01] <zeeshan> nm
[10:24:02] <zeeshan> :P
[10:24:42] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: for SLA applications where all you want is a polymerized resin when it's done printing some resins are the price of PLA
[10:26:05] <MattyMatt_> SLS of plastic powder seems useful, but the cost of the breathing gear would be significant
[10:26:11] <zeeshan> finally found a printer that seems to have a large build volume
[10:26:15] <zeeshan> 11.02"x8.26"x7.87"
[10:26:36] <zeeshan> nm
[10:26:39] <zeeshan> discontinued
[10:26:48] <MattyMatt_> there are repraps with 1m cubes
[10:27:07] <MattyMatt_> FDM in large format is asking for warp tho
[10:28:25] <MattyMatt_> the best additive I've seen is that machining centre with the powder spray head
[10:28:33] <CaptHindsight> SLA hybrids, people use our water soluble photopolymers to print molds then fill with thermoplastics and thermosets. Then rinse away the mold wit water.
[10:28:40] <MattyMatt_> sprays powder into a laser melt pool
[10:29:30] <MattyMatt_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9IdZ2pI5dA
[10:31:13] <MattyMatt_> why print with dead dinosaurs when you can print with dead stars? :)
[10:31:44] <CaptHindsight> makes expensive Yoda heads
[10:32:52] <CaptHindsight> Eiffel Tower, Rabbit, Yoda's head are the top 3 printed parts
[10:33:10] <MattyMatt_> and the naked lady
[10:33:28] <CaptHindsight> NSFW
[10:34:01] <MattyMatt_> that was more popular when the overhang on rabbit and yoda ears was tricky
[10:34:25] <MattyMatt_> eiffel tower is #1 SLA print tho
[10:34:34] <CaptHindsight> I'm still waiting for 3d pancakes
[10:34:45] <CaptHindsight> and waffles
[10:37:37] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: DIY a SLA using a LCD panel
[10:37:51] <CaptHindsight> like that OLO with a real panel
[10:41:12] <CaptHindsight> 160um pitch 4k panel $320 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA90V3V03945&cm_re=4k_monitors-_-9SIA90V3V03945-_-Product
[10:44:38] <CaptHindsight> I'm making some stichable HD LCD light engines. You can make an array 10 x 20 if you want of 1920x1080ea for top down
[11:02:08] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: how do you put the layer of photopolymer on though?
[11:02:42] <CaptHindsight> depends on top down vs bottom up
[11:03:08] <zeeshan> so you have a tank full of resin
[11:03:16] <zeeshan> i dont know how it works
[11:03:16] <CaptHindsight> top down projects onto the surface of the resin and the build stage gets lower as it builds
[11:03:18] <zeeshan> ill have to look at it
[11:03:26] <zeeshan> need to go work on car
[11:03:28] <zeeshan> but ill look tonight
[11:03:38] <zeeshan> theres gotta be a reason why they limit print sizes to be small
[11:04:13] <CaptHindsight> bottom up has a transparent vat where the light gets projected up through the vat onto the topside of the vat where the build stage is
[11:04:46] <CaptHindsight> it's a limit of res of the projector/screen vs pixel size
[11:05:13] <CaptHindsight> 1920 x 1080 display at 100um per pixel is 192 x 108mm
[11:05:53] <CaptHindsight> 200um per pixel would be 384 x 216mm
[11:07:08] <CaptHindsight> 50um per pixel 96mm x 54mm
[11:08:16] <CaptHindsight> stitch projectors and you can have larger print areas with the low res
[11:09:55] <CaptHindsight> another variation is spreading a thin layer of photopolymer onto a transparent nonstick film and holding it just below the build stage
[11:10:23] <CaptHindsight> so there is no vat
[11:15:45] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: top down https://youtu.be/DGITuLyEyg8?t=14s
[11:16:52] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: bottom up https://youtu.be/hQ21gbeYFYQ?t=13s
[11:33:32] <MattyMatt_> waah I can't find that yamakasi 4k with shipping to UK
[11:34:34] <MattyMatt_> I want it for blender
[11:35:08] <MattyMatt_> I've got 4k envy since I saw my friend's new mac
[11:35:59] <CaptHindsight> nice to see displays on the move again after stalling at 1920 x 1080 for so long
[11:36:38] <MattyMatt_> I guess I'd need 2 hdmi cables, and both ports
[11:37:12] <CaptHindsight> Wallymart has a had a 40" 4K sanyo for $450
[11:40:12] <CaptHindsight> http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sceptre-U505CV-U-49-4K-Ultra-HD-2160p-60Hz-LED-HDTV-4K-x-2K/46784936
[11:40:27] <CaptHindsight> but I bet it doesn't look that great
[11:44:28] <MattyMatt_> the 10 bit on the yamakasi is desirable, even if it's dark grey to light grey
[11:44:46] <MattyMatt_> I haven't seen an LCD that doesn't look acceptable for years
[11:45:05] <MattyMatt_> if it's TFT, it's good enough for me
[11:45:37] <MattyMatt_> viewing angles can be nasty sometimes I guess
[11:45:49] <MattyMatt_> that'd be a reaon to wait for oled
[11:46:40] <MattyMatt_> if it's sold as a TV tho, the horizontal viweing angle at least is generally good
[11:50:09] <MattyMatt_> god bless blueray. they'd be sticking with 'HD' for decades otherwise
[11:50:18] <CaptHindsight> http://science.sciencemag.org/content/349/6243/78 direct zeolite-based catalytic process, which converts lactic acid into lactide.
[11:52:09] <Encapsulation> pink_vampire, what do you think of these machines? http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-6090-CNC-Router-Engraver-Machine-23-6-x35-5-x4-WorkSize-Free-Ship-by-Sea-/131578979681?hash=item1ea2b7e561:m:m6JuJNy2gTliIpNW-2PxsqQ and ----- http://www.ebay.com/itm/24x36-CNC-router-machine-on-sale-free-ship-JCUT-6090B-/121830706414?hash=item1c5dad0cee:g:WBoAAOSwZd1VXVv2
[11:54:08] <CaptHindsight> pcw_home: happen to know what the fastest laser printer (1st page) might be for <$200?
[11:55:38] <CaptHindsight> I have some to modify, but haven't had time
[11:55:55] <CaptHindsight> change out the IR laser for <500nm
[11:59:18] <CaptHindsight> spinning a mirror in sync with a tilting mirror is not a challenge but the printer already has it all with a frame buffer
[12:00:11] <SpeedEvil> I thought all new printers were LED
[12:00:36] <pcw_home> looks like the fastest <$200 printers are about 27 PPM (about 2 seconds per image)
[12:00:56] <pcw_home> Most are laser
[12:01:00] <archivist> OCI did led printers with a grin lens
[12:01:08] <CaptHindsight> do they spec the time for the first page, that is the actual write time for the drum
[12:05:19] <CaptHindsight> I see some with <15 seconds for the first page
[12:05:32] <CaptHindsight> but they don't say at what res
[12:06:05] <CaptHindsight> 600 x 2400 dpi over ~8" x 10.5"?
[12:07:41] <CaptHindsight> target 10mJ per pixel for the laser at the surface of the resin
[12:09:17] <CaptHindsight> lets say we just focus on 600 x 600 dpi
[12:10:28] <CaptHindsight> ~42um per pixel
[12:11:26] <CaptHindsight> 30,240,000 pixels per layer and I'll round to 30M
[12:13:08] <SpeedEvil> I suspect reusing a printer internals is going to be majorly annoying and not worth it once you get into the details
[12:13:21] <SpeedEvil> at least - not reusing the processor parts
[12:15:01] <CaptHindsight> not much work for a proto
[12:15:22] <SpeedEvil> why not galvos?
[12:15:33] <CaptHindsight> the processor is actually handy since there's a working driver
[12:15:41] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[12:16:00] <CaptHindsight> there is a spinning mirror for one axis
[12:16:03] <SpeedEvil> But it's got all of the things that expect the right signals at precisely the right time or it's going to bitch about paper jams
[12:16:15] <CaptHindsight> and the drum is the other which you swap for a mirror
[12:16:51] <CaptHindsight> so each print is a layer
[12:18:05] <SpeedEvil> I'm not arguing really about the mechanics/optics part
[12:18:27] <CaptHindsight> the laser printers I have sense the paper edge going into the drum and going out, not to hard to emulate
[12:19:02] <SpeedEvil> maybe I'm overestimating because of taking apart a very old HP with eleven billion sensors
[12:19:14] <CaptHindsight> the main reason that you wouldn't use the printer cpu is the RIP
[12:20:20] <CaptHindsight> if you really want 1:1 what you see is what you print then you don't want a RIP making changes to the images
[12:23:21] <Encapsulation> https://www.stepcraft-systems.com/en/ what do you think of these machines pink_vampire Loetmichel
[12:25:17] <__rob> still having tram problems with my mill on a raised floor
[12:25:19] <__rob> seems to change a bit
[12:25:31] <__rob> was thinking of laying a 1 meter square concrete slab up there
[12:25:31] <CaptHindsight> sorry not 10mJ per pixel, 10mJ per cm^2
[12:25:36] <__rob> then putting the mill on that
[12:25:54] <__rob> so at least it is sitting on a rigid plane
[12:26:10] <__rob> would have thought concrete should be totally non-bendable
[12:26:13] <os1r1s> Is there an easy way to disable the fault input until the servo is enabled without using ladder logic?
[12:26:16] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: is it 100% opaque?
[12:26:25] <SpeedEvil> __rob: It's not
[12:26:25] <__rob> any thoughts on that ?
[12:26:36] <__rob> right, so what other options are there
[12:26:42] <__rob> granite plate ?
[12:26:46] <__rob> or something
[12:26:48] <CaptHindsight> SpeedEvil: the resin?
[12:27:02] <SpeedEvil> __rob: Concrete is about 1/10th the rigidity of steel
[12:27:10] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: yes
[12:27:13] <__rob> basically want something that gives a solid plane, that may move, but as a whole
[12:27:27] <__rob> rather then each foot "floating"
[12:27:31] <CaptHindsight> SpeedEvil: to the laser yes, to the eye maybe no
[12:28:20] <CaptHindsight> SpeedEvil: there is a function of slope, energy vs penetration depth
[12:28:24] <__rob> SpeedEvil, well 1/10th for a 2" thick plate of contrete should still be pretty good
[12:28:25] <SpeedEvil> __rob: there are two options - you can either have it so that the floor can't put any forces into the tool, or the tool is actually held rigid
[12:28:41] <__rob> problem is the floor is raised
[12:28:43] <__rob> up in the iar
[12:28:52] <SpeedEvil> __rob: 8" thick wood may actually be better.
[12:28:55] <__rob> its strong enough, but flexible
[12:29:03] <SpeedEvil> More rigid - though may warp.
[12:29:50] <__rob> yea, thats the problem, I dont want warp
[12:29:56] <SpeedEvil> If you have a tool supported on four feet, then it's almost guaranteed to get forces imparted to it.
[12:29:57] <__rob> wood will give over time
[12:30:11] <SpeedEvil> If you instead bridge two of those feet to one, then it's not.
[12:30:27] <__rob> the back 2 feet are on a steel i beam
[12:30:37] <__rob> the front 2, I have a 10mm thick plate between them
[12:30:38] <__rob> thats it
[12:30:38] <SpeedEvil> how are you supporting the i-beam?
[12:30:52] <__rob> its a mezzanine floor
[12:31:03] <__rob> so box section legs
[12:31:05] <SpeedEvil> 10mm thick plate is essentially doing nothing probably
[12:31:11] <__rob> yea, thought as much
[12:31:34] <SpeedEvil> It's a little better than inch thick wood
[12:32:16] <MattyMatt_> epoxy concrete is 6x more rigid than cast iron, and thus 3x more than steel
[12:32:26] <SpeedEvil> MattyMatt_: no, it's not
[12:32:32] <SpeedEvil> If you mean youngs modulus.
[12:32:49] <SpeedEvil> And I don't know what else you might mean.
[12:32:53] <MattyMatt_> I do, but I'm just repeating what I read
[12:33:17] <MattyMatt_> on that cnczone forum thread
[12:33:26] <archivist> shape matter more than material
[12:34:00] <SpeedEvil> Steel is ~300GPa, cast iron is ~150, concrete is ~30, and epoxy granite is going to be lower still
[12:34:05] <SpeedEvil> quite
[12:34:32] <SpeedEvil> For pure rigidity - not considering movement - it's quite easy to beat steel with wood.
[12:34:43] <SpeedEvil> movement over time that is - not instantaneous
[12:35:23] <MattyMatt_> it's cheaper, if you don't mind the bulk of wood
[12:35:24] <CaptHindsight> __rob: stick with it
[12:36:00] <SpeedEvil> Cast iron is only particularly awesome because you can have your machine be in a fire, and it'll be exactly the same shape as wasn't all charred effect.
[12:36:04] <CaptHindsight> you're running out of things to fix
[12:36:17] <CaptHindsight> so you're almost done
[12:36:30] <SpeedEvil> ^when it
[12:36:49] <__rob> http://i.snag.gy/wiMsU.jpg
[12:36:52] <__rob> this is the situation
[12:37:45] <__rob> lol
[12:37:51] <__rob> indeed CaptHindsight
[12:37:56] <Encapsulation> anyone?
[12:38:06] <Encapsulation> how do those stepcraft machines look
[12:38:08] <SpeedEvil> how much are the 'feet' holding the front of the machine up
[12:38:10] <Encapsulation> compared to the 6040
[12:38:39] <__rob> SpeedEvil, each foot is about 2 inches from the base of the stand
[12:38:44] <CaptHindsight> Encapsulation: please stick to one nick, and relax and wait for an answer
[12:39:12] <MattyMatt_> one big annoyance of a wood machine is you can't use coolant
[12:39:13] <Encapsulation> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwkoGtsaG9c#t=34.172675
[12:39:23] <__rob> http://i.snag.gy/DGJ7N.jpg
[12:39:27] <__rob> thats the feet
[12:39:40] <CaptHindsight> MattyMatt_: how about marine plywood? :p
[12:39:43] <__rob> problem is the C sections will bend
[12:39:49] <SpeedEvil> __rob: I would try removing the front feet, putting a 2*12" beam of wood under the machine, with 1/4" or so spacers, and then a 1/2" 'foot' in the middle of the beam on the floor
[12:39:52] <__rob> so you have the front 2 feet floating
[12:40:14] <SpeedEvil> __rob: So that the front two stub 'feet' rest on the beam, and the beam is resting on the floor at a point in the middle of them.
[12:40:30] <SpeedEvil> __rob: you don't care much about the shape of the beam, because the weight has to be equal
[12:40:31] <SpeedEvil> err
[12:40:36] <SpeedEvil> actually - that may be an issue
[12:40:39] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[12:40:56] <SpeedEvil> it will remove any twisting moment induced by the floor though
[12:41:21] <CaptHindsight> 10W 405nm laser should do it
[12:41:23] <__rob> right
[12:41:28] <__rob> so a plane with 3 points basically
[12:41:59] <SpeedEvil> yeah - it means that now your machine is entirely dependant on its own rigidity, rather than relying on the floro
[12:42:01] <SpeedEvil> floor
[12:42:03] <__rob> seen a few guys on youtube checking major issues they had with a 3 point setup under the mill itself, rather then the base
[12:42:09] <Polymorphism> ok
[12:42:14] <__rob> I like that
[12:42:26] <__rob> although it is thick sheet steel for the base anyway
[12:42:35] <__rob> so I don't actually know how rigid that is
[12:42:56] <__rob> prob not at all
[12:43:12] <__rob> how about the 3 point setup, but under the actual mill
[12:43:18] <CaptHindsight> __rob: can you easily lift and move the machine?
[12:43:24] <__rob> between the base box and the mill base
[12:43:29] <CaptHindsight> whats the appx area of the base?
[12:43:29] <__rob> CaptHindsigh, yea
[12:43:34] <__rob> got a pallet truck next too it
[12:43:38] <__rob> 1m sq
[12:43:42] <__rob> bit under
[12:44:01] <__rob> http://www.tormach.com/uploads/images/Gallery/products/pcnc1100/PCNC1100_Options_Arm_Stands/pcnc1100_deluxe_stand/CNC_deluxe_stand.jpg
[12:44:04] <__rob> thats the stand
[12:45:01] <CaptHindsight> too bad you only have a trampoline for a work area
[12:45:05] <__rob> yea
[12:45:07] <__rob> really is
[12:45:11] <__rob> nothing i can do about it though
[12:45:19] <__rob> its that space or nothing
[12:46:01] <__rob> was hoping it would bed down
[12:46:03] <CaptHindsight> concrete slab, made in place
[12:46:06] <__rob> and then I could set it level
[12:46:35] <__rob> yup, ok, might have to check the weight
[12:46:46] <__rob> how thick minimum would you go ?
[12:46:49] <CaptHindsight> can you get under the floor to that beam?
[12:46:59] <__rob> yea
[12:47:02] <SpeedEvil> Concrete slab at 2" is not particularly rigid compared to most likely flooring
[12:47:02] <__rob> only from the bottom though
[12:47:14] <SpeedEvil> So it will sag and move as the flooring moves
[12:47:40] <__rob> be ideal if there was another ibeam running for the front feet
[12:47:49] <__rob> may well still be bendy though, but likely alot less
[12:47:57] <CaptHindsight> trying to see if he can transfer the load to that beam
[12:47:58] <SpeedEvil> the building may also move
[12:48:15] <__rob> the floor is free standing
[12:48:15] <CaptHindsight> but yeah the flex of the beam we can't do much about
[12:48:19] <SpeedEvil> Buildings may not be so overdesigned that they are completely inflexible.
[12:48:21] <__rob> so not attached to the building
[12:48:22] <SpeedEvil> ^usually
[12:48:38] <CaptHindsight> unless he can add a support below the machine to the floor below
[12:48:44] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[12:48:47] <__rob> cant really do that
[12:49:28] <__rob> does seem like a permenant 3 leg setup might help
[12:49:48] <__rob> problem with tramming the 4 feet is it changes
[12:50:17] <CaptHindsight> so steel I-beam and all wood floor and stringers with ply over all?
[12:50:19] <__rob> at least proping up the front of the actual mill base would always be planar
[12:50:20] <Sync> one of the precision lathes here has had its own foundation cast
[12:50:30] <__rob> CaptHindSight, yea
[12:50:44] <__rob> the C section is Ally
[12:50:46] <CaptHindsight> __how far between I-beams?
[12:50:49] <__rob> 40 centres
[12:51:03] <__rob> not the ibeams
[12:51:08] <__rob> the ally C sections
[12:51:12] <CaptHindsight> __rob: ^^
[12:51:17] <__rob> the Ibeams are just around the outside
[12:51:31] <__rob> with Ally sections holding hte floor up
[12:51:52] <__rob> the span is maybe 3 meters between 2 ibeams
[12:52:39] <__rob> infact, its 3.26
[12:52:40] <__rob> meters
[12:53:31] <CaptHindsight> honestly, it's reinforce the floor or move the machine
[12:54:01] <CaptHindsight> it's about the worst location vs mounting on foam or soil
[12:54:09] <__rob> yup, well might be able to in the future, now its just bout mitigating problems
[12:54:18] <__rob> I know it wont ever be perfect up there
[12:54:37] <CaptHindsight> a 4" slab will still teeter
[12:55:16] <__rob> yea, but maybe less that some bendy section with ply floor >?
[12:55:20] <CaptHindsight> it will be like a partial slab on a drum skin
[12:55:45] <MattyMatt_> barrel vault
[12:55:59] <CaptHindsight> center the mass as best you can on the i-beam
[12:56:26] <__rob> its got the back 2 feet on it
[12:56:29] <__rob> then the wall is behind that
[12:56:35] <CaptHindsight> move it as close to the wall as possible
[12:56:36] <__rob> cant really get any further back
[12:56:55] <__rob> even cut a hole in the wall for the rear motor to poke into
[12:56:55] <__rob> lol
[12:57:01] <__rob> so I could get it further back
[12:57:04] <CaptHindsight> heh
[12:57:09] <CaptHindsight> well you're trying
[12:57:11] <MattyMatt_> how rigid is the wall?
[12:57:14] <__rob> very
[12:57:36] <CaptHindsight> can you run some 45's under the floor to the wall?
[12:57:48] <MattyMatt_> could you make triangles with the floor or front of the machine and the wall?
[12:58:09] <CaptHindsight> from front of the machine under the floor to the wall?
[12:58:18] <MattyMatt_> steel cables at 45 either side of the machine?
[12:58:49] <__rob> yea, mabye
[12:59:09] <CaptHindsight> slab from wall to front of machine
[12:59:29] <CaptHindsight> 45's from front of slab back to the wall
[13:00:11] <__rob> right, I'll look into that
[13:00:20] <__rob> 4" slab or something ?
[13:00:30] <MattyMatt_> or if the machine frame is stiff enough, just a few short ties with turnbuckles to releive some of the weight
[13:00:36] <Polymorphism> cnc is amazing!!!
[13:01:01] <Polymorphism> 2 sided pcb with reference pins
[13:01:05] <Polymorphism> this is going to change my life
[13:01:35] <__rob> cost so little to get them made for 2 layer I've not tried to mill it
[13:01:54] <gregcnc> keep the secrets in house
[13:01:55] <CaptHindsight> scrap 4" plumbing pipe should be cheap
[13:03:34] <CaptHindsight> can you weld a frame under the floor? do you have access to a welder and can you get scaffolding etc?
[13:04:27] <SpeedEvil> Altering the floor structure may require various permits.
[13:04:40] <MattyMatt_> best Internet Truth(tm) I found for epoxy concrete stiffness is "can be as stiff as cast iron, depending on shape"
[13:04:51] <__rob> well I cant really modify the floor
[13:04:53] <__rob> its not mine
[13:05:00] <SpeedEvil> MattyMatt_: that's basically meaningless.
[13:05:04] <SpeedEvil> MattyMatt_: so can styrofoam.
[13:05:14] <__rob> I do like the idea of a supported contrete slab
[13:05:51] <__rob> over 1/2 a ton for a meter squared 1 foot thick one tho
[13:06:07] <__rob> weld up some solid L's
[13:06:10] <__rob> bolt them to the wall
[13:06:18] <__rob> and sink them into the concrete with cross braces
[13:06:24] <SpeedEvil> MattyMatt_: for a simple beam, if you multiply the depth by five times, you can go from steel to shitty plywood and have the same rigidity
[13:06:40] <MattyMatt_> SpeedEvil, not entirely, stiffness for a certain cross section has meaning, but for concrete you need thicker sections just to get enough stones in
[13:06:54] <CaptHindsight> __rob: you know what the building will allow, so you get the idea
[13:07:31] <SpeedEvil> MattyMatt_: aggregate design is a whole nother thing - it's way more than 'getting enough stones in'
[13:07:40] <MattyMatt_> but for a 4 inch thick floor, that's enough to get the full benefit of pebbles
[13:08:30] <CaptHindsight> For the benefit of Mr. Kite There will be a show tonight on trampoline.
[13:12:12] <MattyMatt_> yay. got the runout on this backplate down to 2 thous. heatgun and rubber hammer ftw
[13:12:32] <MattyMatt_> now if I'd used PEEK instead of PCL, it'd be a real solution
[13:12:36] <SpeedEvil> :)
[13:13:47] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPwU06Byc8s if you want to feel better about your machining slills
[13:14:08] <SpeedEvil> (matthias wandal - he's great at wood - metal - perhaps less so.
[13:15:20] <MattyMatt_> he's no glasslinger either
[13:16:04] <CaptHindsight> __rob: I'd pour in place vs try to move a slab around
[13:16:59] <__rob> great, thanks for the advice
[13:17:07] <__rob> I'll let you know how I get on
[13:17:31] <CaptHindsight> and worse case 45's from the front of the slab UP to the wall vs under
[13:17:37] <CaptHindsight> if you can't get below
[13:20:21] <CaptHindsight> a gallon of acrylic for the concrete is ~$30
[13:21:27] <CaptHindsight> and I'd use a bit of rebar http://www.rebar.net/rebar.jpg
[13:22:17] <__rob> yea, was thinking the same >?
[13:22:22] <__rob> yea, was thinking the same
[13:22:26] <__rob> how thick would you go ?
[13:22:29] <__rob> minimum
[13:22:36] <CaptHindsight> 3"
[13:23:59] <CaptHindsight> have the metal anchors for the 45's right in the concrete
[13:26:39] <CaptHindsight> look there for similar https://www.quikrete.com/productlines/concreteacrylicfortifier.asp
[13:31:56] <CaptHindsight> http://www.engineeringcivil.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/cantilever-beam-point-load1.jpg
[13:35:23] <__rob> great
[13:35:28] <__rob> although I'll be bolting to the wall
[13:35:37] <__rob> rather then sunk in
[13:35:41] <CaptHindsight> similar advice
[13:36:22] <CaptHindsight> some people expect too much from simple fasteners
[13:37:00] <CaptHindsight> http://www.kingscountynews.ca/media/photos/unis/2015/06/13/photo_2889646/article_large.jpg
[13:37:42] <CaptHindsight> https://s3.amazonaws.com/wp-ag/wp-content/uploads/sites/71/2015/06/PORCHES-CST-060415-2.jpg
[13:39:37] <MattyMatt_> students and balconies, always a bad mix
[13:40:01] <__rob> lot of people on that balcony
[13:41:14] <MattyMatt_> lot of people making no effort to evacuate
[13:42:36] <MattyMatt_> I bet some of them have evacuated tho :)
[13:42:46] <MattyMatt_> brown trousers
[13:42:47] <CaptHindsight> __rob: I'd probably build a cantilever that doesn't rely on anything other than the wall and the i-beam against the wall
[13:45:21] <__rob> CaptHindSight, so a shelf bracket right ?
[13:45:31] <__rob> L with a 45
[13:46:04] <__rob> |/
[13:46:12] <MattyMatt_> I've got a spare 2ft one here made from pallet wood. made in haste for a ungrateful friend's collapsing sink
[13:46:52] <MattyMatt_> really nice joints
[13:47:13] <MattyMatt_> pinned with dowels
[13:47:37] <__rob> CaptHindSight, just looking into the cost of some steel for the job
[13:47:37] <MattyMatt_> swine said it looked too strong, so fuckim
[13:48:03] <__rob> I'll made the L slide it down and support it off the floor, then weld the 45 in place
[13:48:07] <__rob> make a hole in the floor for it
[13:48:19] <__rob> and bolt the whole thing to the wall
[13:48:41] <__rob> and lay the slab with the top of the bracket inside the slab, and use the floor for the base
[13:48:59] <CaptHindsight> __rob: scrap 3-4" sched 40 or 80 pipe is easy to find here
[13:49:33] <__rob> theres a load of scaffold tube available
[13:49:36] <__rob> steel stuff
[13:51:34] <CaptHindsight> I'd worry about the wooden floor adding to the motion
[13:52:42] <CaptHindsight> I'd transfer the load at the wall edge of the slab right to the i-beam
[13:52:58] <__rob> well it will be self supported, once the concrete has gone off
[13:53:01] <__rob> no ?
[13:53:12] <CaptHindsight> yeah
[13:53:42] <CaptHindsight> don't have the current floor support it
[13:54:02] <__rob> was thinking just for laying the concrete
[13:54:08] <__rob> could have some wood under and knock it out after
[13:54:14] <CaptHindsight> yeah
[13:54:17] <CaptHindsight> 1.4"
[13:54:20] <__rob> wood and polythene sheet or something
[13:54:33] <__rob> and slick it up with some oil before the sheet goes on
[13:54:35] <__rob> should slide out
[13:54:56] <CaptHindsight> plastic film on the bottom, then concrete
[13:55:04] <CaptHindsight> yeah
[13:55:33] <CaptHindsight> what's the wall construction?
[13:56:17] <__rob> stone I think
[13:56:25] <__rob> its about 2 ft thick
[13:56:45] <CaptHindsight> epoxy anchors
[13:58:16] <__rob> http://i.snag.gy/w0bdP.jpg
[13:58:23] <__rob> something like that I was thinking
[13:59:04] <MattyMatt_> I'd go right through and have washers and nuts outside. that was the suggestion that got my bracket idea vetoed
[13:59:25] <MattyMatt_> he was intimidated by the length of my drill bit
[14:00:45] <MattyMatt_> pussy didn't want holes in his kitchen wall, even tho the drain already goes through
[14:01:10] <CaptHindsight> __rob: twist your bracket in all directions
[14:02:21] <__rob> twist it ?
[14:02:25] <CaptHindsight> the load will be mostly down, but once the machine is moving you have forces in other directions
[14:02:31] <MattyMatt_> his sink is currently held up by the tap pipes, an exploded can of PU foam, and a jacksall
[14:02:36] <__rob> ahh, well I can always weld 3 of them together
[14:02:38] <__rob> when in place
[14:02:49] <__rob> back and front
[14:02:51] <__rob> before the pour
[14:03:13] <__rob> mabye only need 2
[14:03:17] <__rob> machine is about 800kg max
[14:03:24] <__rob> plus the concrete itself
[14:06:00] <CaptHindsight> how many floors above?
[14:06:08] <__rob> none
[14:06:18] <__rob> its just 1 floor
[14:06:23] <__rob> and the ground floor
[14:06:31] <CaptHindsight> but you have 10 ft of wall above your floor?
[14:06:43] <__rob> easily, yea
[14:07:02] <CaptHindsight> x 2 ft thick is lots of mass
[14:07:23] <__rob> building is solid
[14:07:33] <CaptHindsight> old castle?
[14:07:47] <__rob> there is a huge old steel beem that runs along the back
[14:07:58] <__rob> it would have been for the original first floor
[14:08:10] <__rob> with that size beam it would have been solid
[14:08:30] <__rob> its just a small warehouse
[14:08:36] <__rob> old building though
[14:08:37] <CaptHindsight> well, you have to save some $
[14:09:41] <CaptHindsight> lots of old loft buildings here, brick outer walls, wooden beams for internal supports
[14:10:12] <CaptHindsight> some feel like you're in an old ship
[14:11:50] <__rob> http://i.snag.gy/rmvDO.jpg
[14:11:55] <__rob> gives you an idea of the situation
[14:12:06] <__rob> and you can see a bit of the old beam
[14:14:15] <Polymorphism> http://www.8020cnc.com/cnc%20pics can I expect results like these from the 6040
[14:14:26] <Connor1> __rob: Why do you want it on a raised floor? (You may have said, I've not went through the backlog of chat all the way..)
[14:14:58] <CaptHindsight> Connor1: his floor is like a drum skin
[14:15:22] <__rob> its not my space
[14:15:28] <__rob> I have been given this patch
[14:15:32] <__rob> but its up on a floor
[14:15:49] <Connor1> Ah. ok
[14:16:35] <__rob> as long as the brackets are solid, this does seem like a solution
[14:27:38] <CaptHindsight> https://youtu.be/SPl2cgm0Q-Y?t=2m35s Ultra-high Precision
[14:32:45] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Dude, yu can do that stuff using radio shack, home depot, and harbor freight parts!
[14:33:32] <Not-Renny> Meheheh
[14:37:37] <gregcnc> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hexlox/hexlox-anti-theft-for-saddles-wheels-and-more-made
[14:38:34] <gregcnc> might be useful for more than bikes
[14:42:41] <Sync> yes Polymorphism
[14:43:37] <Polymorphism> and these DIY kits take months>
[14:43:38] <Polymorphism> ?
[14:43:49] <Polymorphism> there are lots of cheaper DIY kit type options that seem like they would be a lot less
[14:43:59] <Polymorphism> http://www.8020cnc.com/cnc%20pics
[14:44:01] <Polymorphism> like this
[14:45:00] <Polymorphism> http://neo7cnc.com/
[14:45:01] <Polymorphism> or these
[14:46:31] <Polymorphism> or just any of these many kits I see
[14:50:01] <Duc> To redo the wiring in my cabinet again or just place the 4th axis driver where it will fit
[14:51:53] <Polymorphism> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIygRynDR38 can the 6040 cut like this? I'm guessing not
[14:52:12] <Polymorphism> 5 minutes in
[14:54:24] <Sync> it is a completely different type of machine
[14:54:39] <Sync> but those cuts should be possible, although not with that size of endmill
[15:13:30] <Polymorphism> ok
[15:36:40] <Polymorphism> !!!
[15:36:57] <Polymorphism> I can't wait to get cutting it seems like more options keep popping up
[15:40:26] <Polymorphism> what I'm really looking for is the best under 3500 USD
[15:42:47] <Renny> Hey, does anyone here power their CNC stuff off of converters or generators, or do you all already have 3 phase?
[15:47:22] * cpresser has 3phase
[15:48:06] <Duc> Renny: I use a 3 phase conventor for the lathe and surface grinder
[15:50:32] <witnit> Renny: what machine are you running?
[15:54:01] <bobo__> might look at phaseperfect.com
[16:06:23] <JT-Shop> Renny: yes http://gnipsel.com/shop/rpc/rpc.xhtml
[16:07:52] <Duc> Ive been using a american rotary 15 hp unit fine for about 3 years cost 1400 deliveried
[16:08:46] <toastydeath> Polymorphism: what kind of machine are you going to be using
[16:09:51] <toastydeath> Renny: CNC can be very sensitive (depending on the drives and motors) to phase error
[16:10:07] <toastydeath> so generally if you can run a vfd vs a phase converter for cnc, it is preferred
[16:10:18] <toastydeath> for manual machines, rpc is preferred
[16:13:41] <Polymorphism> toastyde2th, I' trying to decide
[16:14:16] <Polymorphism> $2729 total for this...
[16:14:30] <Polymorphism> http://www.omiocnc.com/x6-2200l-3a/
[16:14:37] <Polymorphism> realized shipping isnt free
[16:14:54] <Polymorphism> so its much more expensive than the generic 6040 machines
[16:15:01] <Polymorphism> I need to know if its worth it
[16:15:15] <Polymorphism> or if at 2790 its getting close to being worth going with a different machine entirely
[16:15:25] <Polymorphism> thats almost 3k which looks close to some non-chinese made machines
[16:15:32] <Polymorphism> also very close to 6090
[16:15:33] <toastydeath> what kind of work are you trying to do
[16:16:08] <Polymorphism> I just found the perfect example
[16:16:31] <Polymorphism> http://www.8020cnc.com/cnc%20pics
[16:16:35] <Polymorphism> at the bottom of the page
[16:16:48] <Polymorphism> thats exactly what i want to do
[16:18:58] <Polymorphism> I'm considering this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/3D-CNC-ROUTER-ENGRAVER-ENGRAVING-6040-DESKTOP-4AXIS-DRILLING-MILLING-MACHINE-US-/221354177332?hash=item3389bcb334:g:yoIAAOSwm8VUyYZi ------------ anf this http://www.omiocnc.com/x6-2200l-3a/ and this ------------ http://nscnc.com/ ------- and this http://www.xzerocnc.com/raptor.htm --------- and this http://www.zenbotcnc.com/
[16:19:03] <toastydeath> no idea, i don't have much experience with desk routers
[16:19:10] <Polymorphism> crap
[16:19:15] <toastydeath> mills, yes
[16:19:15] <Polymorphism> I need to find th ebest option for 3500 or less
[16:19:23] <Polymorphism> usd
[16:20:18] <Duc> buy a used bridgeport cnc on ebay and convert
[16:20:30] <Duc> can get it for around 500-800 then add electronics
[16:21:03] <Polymorphism> I've heard it might take a lot of time to convert and get it setup, plus thats a much larger heavier device
[16:22:11] <Polymorphism> well damn...
[16:22:12] <miss0r> can anyone in here reccommend a cheap and good-for-the-price 3D dial indicator?
[16:22:15] <Polymorphism> not sure where to go from here
[16:22:31] <Polymorphism> the x6 shipped is 2600, the raptor is 3400 made in canada bigger bed
[16:22:34] <Polymorphism> not sure how the machine compares
[16:22:49] <Polymorphism> toastydeath, did you see the x62200l and the xzero raptor links
[16:22:59] <Polymorphism> those machines are only 800 difference in price
[16:23:11] <Polymorphism> when I'm spending this much maybe a little more makes sense
[16:23:17] <Polymorphism> OR do I go for the much cdheaper generic 6040s
[16:23:18] <toastydeath> Polymorphism: I don't have any experience with small gantry machines, i can't make good recommendations
[16:23:23] <Polymorphism> without linear guide rails
[16:23:25] <toastydeath> miss0r: what is cheap to you
[16:23:38] <Polymorphism> those are only 1200 shipped
[16:23:42] <Polymorphism> but I may neeed new box
[16:24:02] <miss0r> good question. I do think a Haimer priced at 6-800usd is a bit over the top
[16:26:08] <toastydeath> good lord
[16:26:23] <miss0r> yeah, i'm in the cheap-o end, i know
[16:26:29] <toastydeath> get a mitutoyo
[16:26:55] <toastydeath> they're like 100-200 and you're not going to see much better in .001" or .0001" indicators
[16:27:25] <gregcnc> 3D taster variety?
[16:27:59] <miss0r> heh. I didn't know they made one of thoes.
[16:28:02] <miss0r> gregcnc: yeah
[16:28:34] <gregcnc> the newer smaller haimer is ~400US
[16:29:21] <toastydeath> why
[16:29:24] <miss0r> thats not bad...
[16:29:34] <toastydeath> i have used plenty of 3d tasters and they're not that great
[16:29:39] <toastydeath> even on the high end
[16:29:58] <miss0r> i've just found a haimer for $300
[16:30:55] <miss0r> What I am looking for is a consistent way to set the workpeice height
[16:31:06] <toastydeath> to what accuracy
[16:31:15] <miss0r> within 0.01mm
[16:31:33] <miss0r> perhaps 0.02 in some cases
[16:31:42] <toastydeath> get a touch probe
[16:31:59] <toastydeath> 200-300 used
[16:32:15] <toastydeath> ultra-repeatable
[16:32:40] <Polymorphism> http://www.pocketnc.com/preorders/may-2016-pocket-nc-preorder too small but interesting machine
[16:32:47] <miss0r> hmm. does that also allow for setting x-y?
[16:33:00] <toastydeath> miss0r: yes, they work at any angle
[16:33:28] <toastydeath> and most machines have canned cycles explicity for using them - i believe linuxcnc does as well, plus some additional programming that fanuc/etc don't have
[16:33:52] <toastydeath> so you don't really have to use it by hand if you don't want
[16:37:00] <miss0r> indeed. I don't think the new mill has it thou. it is too old
[16:39:02] <XXCoder> heys
[16:39:18] <miss0r> hey
[16:39:21] <XXCoder> my van seem to have confirmed o2 is broken
[16:39:36] <XXCoder> if it was at rest for a bit, it always throws error p0135. finally
[16:39:41] <XXCoder> I plan to change it soon
[16:40:08] <miss0r> did you call nissan for a quote?
[16:40:16] <XXCoder> gonna do that too
[16:43:22] <miss0r> alright, good luck. i'll head to bed now.
[16:43:25] <miss0r> g'night
[16:43:29] <XXCoder> night miss0r
[16:46:04] <Polymorphism> holy crap
[16:46:11] <Polymorphism> I found the perfect example of what I want to do with the machine
[16:46:11] <Polymorphism> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-4-Axis-Kit-Stepping-Driver-TB6600HG-Box-Set-LCD-Display-Keypad-5A-/152014806498?hash=item2364c9dde2:g:pU8AAOSwyjBW5juS
[16:46:16] <Polymorphism> check out the picturesof that device
[16:46:30] <Polymorphism> its the exact type of enclosure I want to start with
[16:46:35] <Polymorphism> and then make cutouts like that
[16:49:42] <Polymorphism> Loetmichel, pink_vampire are you around
[16:49:48] <Loetmichel> i am
[16:50:23] <Loetmichel> so do. whats holding you back?
[16:50:44] <Loetmichel> i thought you already ordered a 6040?
[16:50:50] <Polymorphism> http://www.omiocnc.com/x6-2200l-3a/ I cant decide between this machine or a generic 6040
[16:51:06] <Polymorphism> or if there might be a better option for ~$3000 or less
[16:51:19] <Polymorphism> I saw the x6 has linear guide rails and some other features
[16:51:25] <Polymorphism> but its 2600 shipped USD
[16:51:37] <jdh> usb
[16:51:58] <Simonious> Polymorphism: keep notes on your process and share them with me! I'm not ready to follow your path today, but I'll find your notes valuable when I am.
[16:51:59] <Polymorphism> yes usb, linear guide rails, a dust boot, 2.2kw spindle, and some other upgrades
[16:52:04] <Loetmichel> and its usb, so linuxCNC wil most likely not work
[16:52:06] <Polymorphism> Simonious, will do
[16:52:13] <jdh> usb blows
[16:52:51] <Polymorphism> Loetmichel, so you don't think its woeth it for the linear guide rails?
[16:52:54] <Polymorphism> instead of the rods
[16:52:57] <Loetmichel> these "usb controllers" are more or less all a µc-board with GRBL on them and an USB-> Serial interface
[16:52:57] <Polymorphism> on the generic 6040s
[16:53:26] <Loetmichel> the linear rails are nice to have. but as you noticed: expensive
[16:53:59] <jdh> I have one of their older pport ones
[16:54:14] <Polymorphism> the x6-2200l?
[16:54:28] <Loetmichel> and as small as the gantry is i doubt there is much metal the guides are screwed ONTO... so they basically arent that much stiffer than normal rods from the 6040
[16:54:43] <jdh> it was just s 6040 then
[16:55:07] <Polymorphism> so you're saying its probably NOT worth the extra 800 dollars for the linear guide rails and whatever other features it may have, like usb
[16:55:22] <Polymorphism> actually its 1400 vs 2600 shipped
[16:55:25] <Loetmichel> yes. the usb controller is more a turn off than anything
[16:55:26] <Polymorphism> yeah
[16:55:29] <Polymorphism> ok
[16:55:39] <Polymorphism> I will keep looking at generic 6040s then
[16:55:40] <jdh> usb is an antifeature
[16:55:53] <Polymorphism> Loetmichel, http://www.8020cnc.com/cnc%20pics
[16:56:06] <Polymorphism> if you scroll to the bottom, I can do that no problem with the generic 6040 ?
[16:56:25] <Polymorphism> have you had any rigidity issues with your rails
[16:56:47] <toastydeath> in general the rails are not a component a person considers in rigidity
[16:57:03] <toastydeath> a bigger rail is not sufficiently different in terms of static rigidity
[16:57:03] <Polymorphism> ah
[16:57:14] <Polymorphism> what is the advantage of the linear guide rails
[16:57:17] <Polymorphism> on the x6
[16:57:32] <Loetmichel> Polymorphism: of copurse you can do that
[16:57:46] <Polymorphism> btw, Loetmichel: http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-4-Axis-Kit-Stepping-Driver-TB6600HG-Box-Set-LCD-Display-Keypad-5A-/152014806498?hash=item2364c9dde2:g:pU8AAOSwyjBW5juS this enclosure is exactly the type I want to cut! and this is the type of end result I would like
[16:58:07] <Polymorphism> I finally found a pic
[16:58:14] <Loetmichel> [22:23] <Polymorphism> Loetmichel, pink_vampire are you around
[16:58:14] <Loetmichel> [22:23] <Loetmichel> i am
[16:58:14] <Loetmichel> [22:24] <Loetmichel> so do. whats holding you back?
[16:58:58] <Polymorphism> the price, I need to be sure it will meet my needs and that I'm getting the absolute best for the money
[16:59:07] <Polymorphism> and that it doesnt make sense to increase my budget a little bit for something bettetr
[16:59:08] <Polymorphism> etc
[16:59:38] <toastydeath> Polymorphism: linear rails are low friction and don't require a big lube system
[17:00:23] <Polymorphism> http://www.zenbotcnc.com/ I recently discovered these options as well
[17:00:35] <Loetmichel> Polymorphism: thats made on a 6040: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14769&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[17:00:37] <toastydeath> the downside is that they're easy to damage compared to ways
[17:00:38] <Polymorphism> A larger work area for a similar price? they show it illing alu
[17:00:52] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14781&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[17:00:55] <toastydeath> another downside is that the rail is only as accurate as what it's mounted to
[17:01:04] <Polymorphism> what is that material Loetmichel ?
[17:01:09] <Loetmichel> aluminium
[17:01:14] <Polymorphism> how thick?
[17:01:29] <Loetmichel> front and back 8,mm, rest 2mm
[17:01:44] <Polymorphism> wow ok
[17:01:51] <Polymorphism> thats with a stock 6040? or did you say you modified
[17:01:53] <Polymorphism> sorry I cant recall
[17:02:59] <Loetmichel> i did, but only the couplers that failed after a year
[17:03:06] <Loetmichel> btw: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14999&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[17:03:45] <Polymorphism> so it can mill thicker alu no problem
[17:03:48] <Loetmichel> thats a littke cable clamp made of 8mm aluminium and 6mm "hardpaper" to fix a little problem...
[17:03:51] <Polymorphism> I dont need to pay 800 for linear guide rails to work alu
[17:04:03] <Loetmichel> no, you just have to have some patience
[17:04:07] <MrSunshine_> hmm, if i have a piece, its 125mm wide and 400mm high, the total error in "angle" from the bottom to the top over the 400mm is about 0.3mm how much is the bottom off then ? that is, how much do i have to remove to correct the error =)
[17:04:18] <Polymorphism> thats nearly 3/8"
[17:04:19] <Loetmichel> 8mm thick aluminium takes a wjhiole at 0,2mm depth per cut. ;-)
[17:04:27] <Polymorphism> thats ok
[17:04:34] <Polymorphism> as long as it looks nice and isnt bad for the machine or tools
[17:04:47] <Loetmichel> it will and it isnt
[17:05:37] <Loetmichel> here i do 0,5mm per cut. thats pretty much the limit waht a 2mm Tungsten carbide mill bit will bear:
[17:05:55] <Loetmichel> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqXauMOhWos
[17:06:46] <Loetmichel> also there is the vacuum table in action ;)
[17:06:55] <Loetmichel> and it shows a case of "machine too small"
[17:07:12] <Loetmichel> had do mill it 30° tilted to fit on the table
[17:07:37] <Polymorphism> xD
[17:07:59] <Polymorphism> would you buy the same machine again? or something larger like 6090
[17:08:18] <Loetmichel> i already had a larger machine
[17:08:33] <Loetmichel> woildnt buy a 6040 again, would build myself one...
[17:08:43] <Loetmichel> but thats because i have the tools to do so;)
[17:09:05] <Polymorphism> I'm short on time and tools, I'd better buy
[17:09:27] <Polymorphism> so my choic ebecomes
[17:09:47] <Loetmichel> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iYhICZEsCA <- thats the machine i built for my ex.boss
[17:09:51] <Polymorphism> buy the black box model 6040 for 1400 USD, and use the controller, or buy the white box and throw it away people dont think its too good I don;t think, and then buy gecko or other
[17:10:15] <Polymorphism> what size table? nice
[17:10:35] <Polymorphism> white box model is 1200
[17:10:35] <Loetmichel> 1500mm by 1020mm by 160mm travel
[17:10:56] <jdh> I was planning on a gecko but mine has been fine
[17:11:44] <Polymorphism> jdh, which box do you have?
[17:11:46] <Polymorphism> white blue or black
[17:11:49] <Loetmichel> Polymorphism: the TB6560 chips inside the cheap chinese driver boxes are perfectly fine as long as you remember to NOT EVER disconnect the motors while the drivers are powered
[17:12:25] <Polymorphism> ok
[17:12:32] <jdh> black, from omio or etf they are
[17:12:37] <Loetmichel> btw: i am the guy in the blue/black checkered shirt
[17:13:01] <toastydeath> tbh networking has the best people that i've worked with in general
[17:13:03] <toastydeath> oops
[17:13:04] <toastydeath> wrong channel
[17:13:12] <Polymorphism> jdh, but no linear guide rails?
[17:13:12] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[17:13:33] <toastydeath> linear guide rails are not that great on small machines
[17:13:43] <toastydeath> they're usually bolted down to aluminum extrusions
[17:13:51] <Loetmichel> Polymorphism: linear guide rails are only making sense if there is anythiong to screw them into
[17:13:51] <jdh> it has linear rails
[17:13:56] <toastydeath> the guide rail is *only* as accurate as what it's bolted to
[17:14:36] <Loetmichel> if there is no big bar or box tube behind it on the gantry they are as weak as cylindrical rails
[17:14:37] <Polymorphism> is there something to screw them to on that x6?
[17:14:41] <jdh> what elsr would you use
[17:14:43] <Polymorphism> or you're saying there is no point
[17:15:12] <Loetmichel> Polymorphism: the linear rails are not stiff in themselves
[17:15:19] <Loetmichel> they can bolted to something stiff
[17:15:32] <Loetmichel> so if there is nothing stiff they are not making sense. got it?
[17:15:41] <Polymorphism> yeah
[17:15:51] <Polymorphism> I see
[17:16:29] <Loetmichel> same reason i said : get a 604 that has supported rails in y
[17:16:40] <Loetmichel> meaning the long axis
[17:16:57] <Loetmichel> so that you can bolt at least y to something more stiff than the rest of the machine
[17:17:29] <Loetmichel> in x (the gantry) its fruitless to use any supported raisl because there is nothigh you could bolt them onto
[17:18:47] <Polymorphism> I still need to decide which control box and which spindle
[17:18:51] <toastydeath> don't get an expensive linear rail, because if your frame is only accurate to .005" per foot, then your rail will be .005" per foot + rail error
[17:18:55] <Polymorphism> some have 1.5kw, some have only 800w
[17:19:00] <Polymorphism> and some machines are painted, some are not
[17:19:06] <Polymorphism> I heard the paint can be low quality
[17:19:23] <Polymorphism> toastydeath, ok, I won't spend extra on the machine with linear rails
[17:20:12] <Polymorphism> So I know I want 6040
[17:20:26] <Polymorphism> now I need to decide, which control box, which spindle, and painted or not painted
[17:20:27] <Loetmichel> Polymorphism: the paint CAN hide low qualtity aluminium but have to...
[17:20:43] <Polymorphism> did your machine come painted or bare metal Loetmichel
[17:20:56] <Polymorphism> and what do you think of 800w vs 1.5kw spindle
[17:20:58] <Polymorphism> for htis machine
[17:21:04] <Loetmichel> do you even look at the videos i show you?
[17:21:07] <Loetmichel> bare metal
[17:21:35] <Loetmichel> 800W vs 1.5 kw is irrelevant. you will not use either to any extent
[17:21:48] <Loetmichel> only the 2.2kw is bad because weight and lower RPM
[17:22:25] <Polymorphism> yes Loetmichel I looked at all of them
[17:22:33] <Polymorphism> its just so much information and I didnt have them open any more
[17:22:37] <Polymorphism> I have 50 tabs open
[17:22:41] <Polymorphism> xD
[17:22:59] <Polymorphism> ok so 800w vs 1.5wk doesnt matter much
[17:23:08] <Polymorphism> and I actually DONT want 2.2k hmm ok
[17:23:16] <Polymorphism> I was thinking that made the x6 unit nicer
[17:23:49] <Loetmichel> *meh* those guinnes "draft" cans... one day i will get them poured witout staining my clothes in the process :-(
[17:24:38] <XXCoder> just dont wear shirts
[17:24:41] <XXCoder> stain yourself
[17:25:04] <Loetmichel> *boarpsss*
[17:25:05] <Loetmichel> :-)
[17:25:16] <Loetmichel> alrady empty the glass ;)
[17:25:16] <XXCoder> manly way
[17:27:36] <Polymorphism> http://www.ebay.com/itm/800W-4-AXIS-CNC-6040-ROUTER-DRILLING-MILLING-ENGRAVER-MACHINE-3D-ENGRAVING-fast-/381554218556?hash=item58d667563c:g:UQMAAOSwDuJW1mg0 Loetmichel do you think the dust covers are any good?
[17:27:52] <Polymorphism> I'm, worried about a painted unit... it might not be the same quality as yours
[17:27:57] <Polymorphism> I don't think these machines are all the same!
[17:28:08] <Loetmichel> they are, mor eor less
[17:28:19] <Loetmichel> and the bellows are a nice addition
[17:28:33] <Loetmichel> consiodering how much dirt i blow out of the mecahnics all day...
[17:31:22] <Polymorphism> two of these 6040s the cheapest two on ebay
[17:31:31] <Polymorphism> are the same price, one is 4 axis the other is 3
[17:31:36] <Polymorphism> I may as well take the 4th for free @_@
[17:31:44] <Polymorphism> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-CNC-Router-Engraver-Milling-Machine-Engraving-Drilling-4-Axis-6040-Desktop-/291054639648?hash=item43c4355a20:g:VnoAAOSw1ZBUyYZj
[17:31:51] <Polymorphism> that is the one I think I will buy
[17:32:25] <Polymorphism> does everything look ok?
[17:32:28] <Polymorphism> thanks again for all of the help
[17:32:58] <Polymorphism> its 300 more than the cheapest one, but it looks better
[17:34:32] <Polymorphism> http://www.ebay.com/itm/PRO-1-5KW-3-AXIS-CNC-ROUTER-ENGRAVER-ENGRAVING-MACHINE-DRILLING-MILLING-6040-USA-/331787662821?hash=item4d4015f5e5:g:hpwAAOSwAKxWakwH
[17:34:37] <Polymorphism> for comparison, that is hte cheapest
[17:34:39] <Polymorphism> but it looks inferior
[17:34:49] <Polymorphism> even though the spindle is higher wattage..
[17:36:05] <Polymorphism> the hardware is all different
[17:36:05] <Polymorphism> etc
[17:36:12] <Polymorphism> the mount
[17:36:16] <Polymorphism> they are different machines imo
[17:37:52] <Polymorphism> and of course the controller
[17:37:57] <Deejay> gn8
[17:37:58] <Polymorphism> can anyone weigh in on this?
[17:38:00] <Polymorphism> gn
[17:39:39] * Polymorphism agonizes over the final choice
[17:44:44] <Polymorphism> http://www.ebay.com/itm/19-W-x-3-84-H-x-9-84-D-2U-Rack-Mount-Cabinet-Enclosure-ET2-25B-/181411973692
[17:44:48] <Polymorphism> is that the best price for these?
[17:44:52] <Polymorphism> and the 6040 can mill these?
[17:51:23] <Polymorphism> ??
[17:52:12] <Tom_itx> you are the shopper. find the best price
[17:52:33] <Polymorphism> well the two machines appear to be different
[17:53:02] <Tom_itx> i got my enclosure for $25
[17:53:30] <Polymorphism> where?
[17:54:00] <Tom_itx> ebay
[17:54:23] * Tom_itx wonders when JT-Shop will be back on 3 wheels again
[17:54:49] <jdh> I paid 75 shipped
[17:54:59] <JT-Shop> dunno, took it to the dealer today
[17:55:19] <jdh> with disconnect, estop,start,din rail
[17:55:22] <JT-Shop> I was wondering when I'd get my lan connection working on this computer
[17:55:37] <JT-Shop> tried to boot from clonezilla and it would not boot
[17:55:39] <Tom_itx> seems you can check that off your list
[17:56:45] <JT-Shop> started digging stumps this afternoon what a pain in the neck and other areas
[17:57:09] <Tom_itx> i thought you had heavy equipment for that?
[17:59:17] <JT-Shop> John Deere 310A backhoe yes but they are kinda big so it's a pain to get the stump to move
[17:59:45] <Tom_itx> get some dynamite
[17:59:55] <Tom_itx> det cord
[17:59:57] <JT-Shop> kinda hard to get anymore
[18:00:19] <Tom_itx> take pot shots at it with your cannon
[18:00:42] <JT-Shop> that's not big enough
[18:01:02] <Tom_itx> maybe not but it would be loud and fun
[18:01:06] <JT-Shop> I need an excavator out here to speed this up
[18:02:15] <Tom_itx> i was 2 points from getting 100% on my first catia class and i contested that it was a matter of interpretation of the drawing
[18:02:59] <Tom_itx> got all the quizzes & problems right and mis-interpreted one thing on the final
[18:03:21] <CaptHindsight> stumpmunitions
[18:03:36] <Tom_itx> i should post the drawing and see what ppl say here
[18:05:00] <JT-Shop> that's pretty good tom
[18:05:26] <CaptHindsight> with all that outdoor space you could make your own dynamite pretty safely
[18:05:26] <Tom_itx> i was happy but it kinda bugged me after going that far
[18:06:01] <Tom_itx> i think i convinced the prof to give it to me
[18:06:53] <Tom_itx> it won't affect the grade either way, it's just the principle...
[18:09:03] * JT-Shop wonders why this computer would not boot clonezilla from the dvd drive...
[18:10:09] <CaptHindsight> never mind it requires an ATF license to make even for self use
[18:10:39] <Polymorphism> silencer?
[18:10:47] <Polymorphism> oh dynamite, ofc
[18:12:15] <Polymorphism> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWScHaWZfXA
[18:19:33] <Polymorphism> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTdX_n09cI0
[18:24:31] <Polymorphism> have to stop for food again... damn
[18:24:33] <Polymorphism> back in a bit
[18:27:14] <jdh> just buy it
[18:31:22] <CaptHindsight> looks like you need the license to purchase, store, use, transport, manufacture, test....
[19:10:41] <XXCoder> gonna love amazon suggestions sometimes
[19:11:01] <XXCoder> "oh look you bought a nissan quest part, here's awesome totally unrelated car part shit!
[19:12:03] <Tom_itx> hey you might buy one some day
[19:12:23] <XXCoder> percent of chance is damn near zero
[19:12:33] <XXCoder> specific year range of specific model and make suuure
[19:46:02] <gregcnc> I bought some thumb drives a while back and had thumb drives ads for months after
[19:53:43] <Encapsulation> back
[19:55:21] <XXCoder> gregcnc: yeah
[19:55:38] <XXCoder> sometimes I was curious and read amazon item featured at worse things on sale
[19:55:49] <XXCoder> it appeared on amazon, and facebook
[19:57:27] <gregcnc> a few months ago I started see some sites have ebay ads with items I've looked at
[19:58:07] <XXCoder> if youre curious http://theworstthingsforsale.com/
[19:58:21] <XXCoder> just dont click if dont wanna see em featured at amazon and facebook lol
[19:58:27] <Ralith> yeah that site's dangerous like that
[19:58:44] <Ralith> can give amazon a really confused idea of your interests
[19:58:50] <XXCoder> indeed
[20:03:42] <XXCoder> .. is that tool holder case?? lol http://theworstthingsforsale.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/pocket-pets-cockroach-portable.jpg
[20:06:59] <XXCoder> LOL http://theworstthingsforsale.com/2016/02/28/how-to-read-an-sd-card/
[20:14:12] <Loetmichel> XXCoder: looks like the ones i get my mill bits in ...
[20:14:33] <XXCoder> it does look like em
[20:20:11] <XXCoder> heh I dont want to see person who looks for items in amazon amazon ads
[20:20:34] <XXCoder> due to all that weird browsing guy must have very strange suggestions.
[20:37:49] <Polymorphism> https://stepcraft.us/product/makeanything/ can Loetmichel or pink_vampire|2 or aytone else comment on these machines?
[20:38:13] <Polymorphism> https://stepcraft.us/ almost no info onlne
[20:38:15] <Loetmichel> *SIGH*
[20:38:30] <Polymorphism> ? it looks like it could be a nice deal
[20:38:33] <Polymorphism> it says its made in germany
[20:38:41] <Loetmichel> stepcraft hasnt the fame as making the sturdiest macines of them all to put it mildly
[20:38:53] <Loetmichel> yeah, it IS made here
[20:38:57] <Loetmichel> doesemt mean its goot
[20:39:02] <Loetmichel> good
[20:39:11] <malcom2073> Polymorphism: What kind of linear system is that?
[20:39:15] <malcom2073> Looks like extruded aluminum profile rails
[20:39:25] <malcom2073> aka: identical to the $600 shapeoko
[20:39:39] <Polymorphism> ah
[20:39:40] <Polymorphism> ok.
[20:39:41] <XXCoder> "make anything" it better mean it can make gold bars ;)
[20:39:45] <XXCoder> using wood stock
[20:39:53] <Polymorphism> I'll stick with the 6040
[20:40:17] <malcom2073> I think you should, I think it'll be a great machine for you tolearn on, and should be able to do what you want to do at least initially
[20:40:22] <XXCoder> its quite pricy
[20:40:31] <malcom2073> You'll outgrow it... but hopefully your business will too
[20:41:08] <XXCoder> Polymorphism: you can rebuild machines? if so one of those chinese cheap machines would do
[20:41:19] <XXCoder> rebuild and replace all bearings
[20:42:30] <Polymorphism> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-CNC-Router-Engraver-Milling-Machine-Engraving-Drilling-4-Axis-6040-Desktop-/291054639648?hash=item43c4355a20:g:VnoAAOSw1ZBUyYZj
[20:42:34] <Polymorphism> thats the one I'm going to get XXCoder
[20:42:40] <Polymorphism> hopefully I dont need to rebuild anything
[20:42:44] <Polymorphism> my work is light
[20:42:52] <XXCoder> in very least clean bearings
[20:43:03] <XXCoder> my SBR rails bearings come with free chips
[20:43:12] <XXCoder> and not of tasty type
[20:43:34] <Polymorphism> http://www.8020cnc.com/images/alu_engrave4_large.jpg thats what I need to do
[20:43:37] <XXCoder> that machine is pretty cheap, even has 4th axis
[20:43:46] <Polymorphism> thats what I'm thinking
[20:43:51] <Polymorphism> and hte improved black box
[20:43:51] <malcom2073> That machine is really cheap, you can probably knock off $300 by getting it without a 4th ais
[20:43:53] <malcom2073> axis
[20:44:06] <Polymorphism> the ones without the 4th axis have some differences malcolm
[20:44:16] <malcom2073> Polymorphism: Send them a message and ask
[20:44:19] <Polymorphism> they have a white box, are painted, and come with 1.5kw spindle
[20:44:26] <malcom2073> Or, "make an offer" of 1100, and say "without 4th axis"
[20:44:42] <Polymorphism> http://www.ebay.com/itm/PRO-1-5KW-3-AXIS-CNC-ROUTER-ENGRAVER-ENGRAVING-MACHINE-DRILLING-MILLING-6040-USA-/331787662821?hash=item4d4015f5e5:g:hpwAAOSwAKxWakwH
[20:44:44] <malcom2073> I've heard some vendors are willing to do that
[20:44:50] <Polymorphism> see that one is different. thats the cheapest on ebay
[20:44:54] <Polymorphism> but it looks... maybe not as good
[20:45:00] <Polymorphism> I'll try to make an offer wiethout 4th axis
[20:45:08] <Polymorphism> although, I saw the video of the 4th axis and it looked nice
[20:45:12] <Polymorphism> they made a 3d statue
[20:45:14] <Polymorphism> in wood
[20:45:20] <malcom2073> 4th axis is cool to play with :)
[20:45:57] <Polymorphism> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWScHaWZfXA&t=3m30s
[20:46:04] <Polymorphism> see it really doesnt look too bad!
[20:46:11] <Polymorphism> so I think I might want the 4th axis
[20:47:08] <Polymorphism> I could make offer even with 4th axis
[20:47:12] <Polymorphism> they might take 100 off
[20:47:33] <malcom2073> They likely will
[20:47:45] <malcom2073> make an offer is there for a reason: So they can offer it at a higher price to people who won't click that button
[20:49:47] <Polymorphism> thats true
[20:49:55] <Polymorphism> I'll sleep on the decision
[20:49:57] <Polymorphism> and purchase tomorrow
[20:50:10] <malcom2073> Good idea
[20:50:47] <Simonious> +1
[20:54:02] <XXCoder> that video refuse to load
[20:54:54] <malcom2073> XXCoder: Works fine for me :P
[20:55:04] <XXCoder> yeah not sure why it doesnt for me
[20:55:05] <malcom2073> It's just the 6040 doing a statue on the 4th axis in wood
[20:55:09] <XXCoder> youtube usually is fine
[21:02:04] <XXCoder> no youtube loads
[21:03:10] <XXCoder> whats weird is that preview works fine, meaning it loaded video fine
[21:03:14] <XXCoder> just refuses to play
[21:04:02] <XXCoder> oh it crashed
[21:04:12] <XXCoder> then restart browser its fine. weird
[21:07:23] <XXCoder> that 4th axis video is awesome
[21:15:00] <XXCoder> now this is project idea for me. https://youtu.be/af6zOUqp30E
[21:19:35] <malcom2073> Hah there ya go
[21:21:08] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Tv-aUC6lpM this ones interesting too
[21:21:45] <malcom2073> Haha oh that guy
[21:21:46] <malcom2073> he's funny
[21:23:45] <XXCoder> man'
[21:23:54] <XXCoder> he invents weird gear systems.
[21:24:42] <XXCoder> watching 7 planet gear now
[21:25:41] <CaptHindsight> I enjoyed his peas and carrots transmission with gravy based torque converter
[21:29:22] <XXCoder> that one was fun yeah
[21:32:49] <gregcnc> that guy has pages and pages of stuff on shapeways
[21:32:59] <gregcnc> and it's not cheap
[21:33:55] <gregcnc> do you make money selling designs on shapeways?
[21:34:15] <XXCoder> me? I dont even design
[21:34:37] <gregcnc> sorry, anyone
[21:34:48] <XXCoder> :)
[21:37:25] <gregcnc> OK, you basically set your price with markup and sell anything you want shapeways grows the parts
[22:03:27] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: millions on the Yoda Head, Eiffel Tower and the rabbit :p
[22:03:47] <XXCoder> yeah I dont plan on those if I ever get 3d printer
[22:04:07] <CaptHindsight> it's like a right of passage
[22:05:02] <djdelorie> print yoda's head you will, use the plastic, Luke!
[22:05:16] <Duc> dont forget a tardus
[22:06:11] <djdelorie> I admit I did a tardis light switch plate, but I have a cousin who's a real fan and it was a gift
[22:06:42] <CaptHindsight> how about a Yoda Turd?
[22:06:45] <XXCoder> build a real one
[22:08:28] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight, i thought that was zee's thing
[22:09:33] <CaptHindsight> a turdus
[22:10:06] <CaptHindsight> only takes you to bad days
[22:10:37] <XXCoder> other tech is cool, but what I really want is time lord "inside is bigger" tech
[22:10:41] <XXCoder> because damn
[22:10:57] <XXCoder> house external size would become meaningless
[22:11:14] <CaptHindsight> see Steve Martin's "The Turds"
[22:34:05] <XXCoder> ... interesting https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hexlox/hexlox-anti-theft-for-saddles-wheels-and-more-made
[22:38:00] <jdh> I have six bikes and none have bolts that hold on wheels
[22:38:38] <jdh> it would be a lot faster to steal the seatpost with saddle attached than try to take off a saddle.
[22:38:47] <Polymorphism> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z-2NPeYTQ4
[22:38:55] <XXCoder> not if you remove quick release
[22:38:55] <Polymorphism> is the 6040 capable of this?
[22:39:03] <XXCoder> then that can be locked too.
[22:39:37] <XXCoder> that looks very similiar with my machine
[22:39:37] <jdh> I've never tried Al on my 6040, shoudl do that some day
[22:39:53] <XXCoder> though mine does not come with proper spindle :(
[22:40:09] <Polymorphism> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6Uhdmz8OJs
[22:40:17] <Polymorphism> what if the x6 is worth it... hmm
[22:40:43] <XXCoder> talking about spindles
[22:40:57] <XXCoder> anyuone know of any 43mm spindle diameter?
[22:43:53] <XXCoder> camera on springs style
[22:43:55] <XXCoder> I hate that
[22:46:35] <XXCoder> so far, all spindles is in least 52mm diameter
[22:46:37] <XXCoder> sucks
[22:46:59] <jdh> do you have a spindle?
[22:47:06] <XXCoder> techinically nop
[22:47:15] <XXCoder> I have grinder that does 27000 rpm
[22:47:22] <Polymorphism> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6090-CNC-Router-Engraving-Drilling-Milling-Machine-2-2KW-Water-Cooled-Spindle-/191641737352?hash=item2c9ebcd888:g:t5oAAOSwKtlWtTUj http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-6090-CNC-Router-Engraver-Machine-23-6-x35-5-x4-WorkSize-Free-Sea-Shipping-/371583465857?hash=item568419b981:m:m6JuJNy2gTliIpNW-2PxsqQ
[22:47:25] <XXCoder> probably fairly bad runout
[22:47:25] <jdh> can you use it to make a spindle adapter?
[22:47:30] <Polymorphism> how do these machines compare to the 6040?
[22:47:40] <XXCoder> jdh: maybe but not too sure
[22:53:29] <Polymorphism> brb
[23:35:09] <Encapsulation> any ideas?
[23:35:26] <Encapsulation> trying to compare the 6040 to the x8-2200l and to the 6090 both table and full size units
[23:39:47] <Encapsulation> I dont undetstand the rigidity etc enough
[23:44:44] <Encapsulation> eatijng dinner as I research
[23:55:32] <Encapsulation> I'll check again in the morning, hopefully someone will see the links