#linuxcnc | Logs for 2016-03-24

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[00:05:45] <pink_vampire> Jymmm: lost art
[00:24:06] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: was that your segue into your favorite Tokyo past time? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zV5Lx1c0MWs
[02:03:08] <pink_vampire> chips again!
[02:22:18] <unfy> i've been dragging ass on building cnc, over the past few weekends i've been throwing together something quick / simple out of wood, drawer slides, all thread, and angle aluminum.
[02:22:50] <unfy> nearly done with the first build and time to start testing etc... but still got just a bit more building to do
[02:41:06] <kengu> ok
[02:56:38] <unfy> also, as an aside, has anyone given serious thought to the 'diy concrete lathe' ?
[02:56:52] <Not-Renny> Me!
[02:57:04] <unfy> instead of casting parts out of al (ie: gingerly), it's base is concrete grout ?
[02:57:13] <Not-Renny> I'm butts poor.
[02:57:20] <unfy> renny: done more than a cursory glance at it ?
[02:57:26] <Not-Renny> It's reinforced concrete,
[02:57:48] <Not-Renny> The holes are left larger than needed and filled with non-shrinking grout.
[02:58:15] <Not-Renny> I've looked at most of a build guide for one....
[02:58:29] <Not-Renny> It actually looks like a really fun project.
[02:58:44] <Not-Renny> Why do you ask, unfy?
[02:58:50] <unfy> the make zine thing that looks like it has 'most' stuff, but starts to trail off towards the cross slide etc ?
[02:59:19] <unfy> mostly just cause kinda thinkin bout it, too. wouldn't mind something relatively inexpensive and not 3 phase.
[02:59:34] <tiwake> Not-Renny: still butt poor?
[02:59:35] <unfy> granted, the bolton stuff looks to be $1200-$1500 delivered ?
[03:00:14] <Not-Renny> tiwake, I will be eternally butt poor. I bought materials for my whole 3d printer frame for $21
[03:00:30] <unfy> pvc tubing ?
[03:00:32] <Not-Renny> 2 sheets of Baltic birch plywood :P
[03:00:37] <unfy> or that :D
[03:00:52] <tiwake> heh
[03:00:58] <Not-Renny> It'll be a super solid frame, but is cheap.
[03:01:19] <tiwake> super solid and wood don't go together
[03:01:40] <unfy> i've been impressed with the center / undermount drawer slides for cnc rails
[03:01:44] <Not-Renny> ?
[03:02:23] <unfy> granted, i have doubts i'll even be able to touch AL with it, but it's a fun starting / learning point
[03:02:33] <Not-Renny> https://imgur.com/7yfwFVC :P
[03:02:55] <tiwake> wood is so squishy... even the hardest of hardwoods, compared to most commonly used metals used for structures :P
[03:03:29] <tiwake> I'm also tired
[03:03:45] <unfy> renny: have you done a BOM for the concrete lathe ? come up with a cost ?
[03:03:48] <tiwake> Not-Renny: you should tell me to go to bed
[03:03:54] <Not-Renny> So am,I, tiwake, and you even have an hour more than me.
[03:04:13] <Not-Renny> It would be hypocritical of me to tell you to go to bed :l
[03:04:15] <tiwake> Not-Renny: meh, I've been working on car stuff for most of today
[03:04:39] <tiwake> and actually my birthday started about 40min ago :-x
[03:04:41] <Not-Renny> Woo, cars
[03:04:54] <Not-Renny> And hjappy birthdaygh
[03:05:07] <Not-Renny> Doing anything exciting?
[03:05:15] <tiwake> working on car stuff
[03:05:19] <Not-Renny> :P
[03:05:38] <tiwake> doing fiberglass repair for my first time
[03:06:04] <Not-Renny> How is it?
[03:06:06] <unfy> tiwake: we share a bday :D
[03:06:12] <tiwake> I should look for jobs in texas
[03:06:20] * Not-Renny did glass cutting for the first time yesterday
[03:06:23] <tiwake> unfy: oOo... how old?
[03:07:15] <tiwake> 29 as of today
[03:07:24] <Not-Renny> Also tiwake, you should join me and Deathwilldie for a road trip this summer.
[03:07:58] <tiwake> to where?
[03:09:57] <Not-Renny> To kind of down the West coast, up through Utah and out of Idaho, then back into Oregon.
[03:09:57] <Not-Renny> We have to see the redwoods and the Salt Flats and stuff
[03:09:57] <tiwake> I might be in texas... heh
[03:09:57] <Not-Renny> D:
[03:09:57] <Not-Renny> But didn't you just barely set up a machine shop?
[03:09:57] <tiwake> sorta... leaving the LLC
[03:09:57] <unfy> 38
[03:10:05] <tiwake> unfy: got 9 years on me... what were you doing 9 years ago? XD
[03:11:03] <Not-Renny> Also, unfy, plywood bits for a concrete form, lots and lots of concrete, 2 thick and really, really straight rods, etc.
[03:12:31] <Not-Renny> Depending on how large you want it and how much angle iron you have laying about, it could be anywhere from $150 to $500-plus.
[03:13:10] <Not-Renny> They used to make em crazy big. For lathing artillery shells and stuff on the cheap.
[03:13:21] <unfy> so yeah, we were looking at the same thing
[03:13:31] <Not-Renny> Yeps, I think.
[03:13:41] <Not-Renny> Link to what you were looking at?
[03:14:14] <unfy> the open source machine tools org thing and such ?
[03:14:23] <unfy> has a makezine and yahoo group ?
[03:15:45] <unfy> 9 years ago ? abou tthe same as now btw
[03:16:12] <tiwake> what are you doing now? (in general)
[03:16:51] <unfy> day job ? coder, casino industry, network / db admin as well etc
[03:16:56] <Not-Renny> Tiwake go to sleep :U
[03:17:23] <tiwake> unfy: but by night you slay vampires?
[03:20:49] <unfy> nah
[03:20:57] <unfy> flexible work hours
[03:21:00] <unfy> at the moment i work at night
[03:22:20] <unfy> what i do during my hobby time ? make own pcb's, reload my own ammo, bought a welder and am doing some standard mods on it, have melted some AL ...
[03:22:57] <unfy> moin, deejay
[03:22:57] <tiwake> and slay vampires
[03:23:06] <Deejay> moin
[03:23:18] <unfy> i've fiddled with copper elecroplating, powdercoating
[03:24:04] <unfy> i wanna get the baby cnc done and experiment with it and stuff
[03:24:27] <unfy> and make designs on something bigger that involves steel
[03:25:30] <SpeedEvil> I suggest a rolling mill.
[04:44:04] <pink_vampire> how much it cost to send a part for anodize?
[04:52:06] <XXCoder> just half of everything you own
[04:52:11] <XXCoder> kidding
[04:52:13] <archivist> ask your local anodiser
[05:16:17] <pink_vampire> http://i.imgur.com/2jk7wO4.png
[05:16:39] <pink_vampire> archivist:^
[05:16:44] <pink_vampire> XXCoder: ^
[05:16:52] <pink_vampire> SpeedEvil: ^
[05:17:07] <XXCoder> nice
[05:17:24] <XXCoder> youre been making parts at decent pace lately
[05:18:37] <pink_vampire> I need to finis sand all the other.
[05:19:00] <pink_vampire> aluminum dust alllll oveeeer
[05:19:13] <XXCoder> heh sometimes I call it alum scabies
[05:19:21] <XXCoder> it can get itchy if fine dust
[05:19:32] <XXCoder> thankfully curable by bathing lol
[05:20:02] <pink_vampire> i have to get a shop
[05:20:07] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: I'll take the maid bar any day over this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-yBx9C70zo
[05:24:22] <pink_vampire> Jymmm: thank you, I feel soo normal right now.
[05:25:20] <XXCoder> japense shows is weird
[05:25:32] <XXCoder> in public they are quite contrained and strict though
[05:25:33] <pink_vampire> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzgPOJPTo_A
[05:25:47] <pink_vampire> I need a slitting saw arbor
[05:26:45] <XXCoder> freedom fries lol some people still havent gone over french thing
[05:27:31] <pink_vampire> soo funny
[05:28:16] <XXCoder> fixture is bit weak though it actually rotated ;)
[05:28:22] <Jymmm> XXCoder: You mean like the Japanese TV game show handjob karaoke?
[05:28:33] <Jymmm> XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWEZ2XqMByg
[05:28:46] <pink_vampire> he need to cut potato under argon
[05:29:53] <SpeedEvil> pink_vampire: this is an entirely unhelpful comment - but did you consider making it out of 1/4" or whatever, and bending it?
[05:30:28] <SpeedEvil> Assuming for the moment that that middle bit serves no mechanical purpose.
[05:31:21] <XXCoder> Jymmm: its show not in public lol
[05:31:29] <pink_vampire> i don't have a way to bend it accurate..
[05:31:46] <XXCoder> not bent means it is stronger anyway
[05:31:53] <XXCoder> if bit more expensive
[05:31:56] <SpeedEvil> XXCoder: probably
[05:33:10] <Jymmm> XXCoder: No clue, Just after CaptHindsight's segue thing, I remembered that jp had these REALLY weird game shows and of course https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=japan+gameshow is all you need from there
[05:33:35] <XXCoder> never seen that type of dial seen in that pototo milling
[05:37:52] <pink_vampire> SpeedEvil: do you know how much it cost to anodize part like that?
[05:38:00] <SpeedEvil> pink_vampire: $0
[05:38:06] <SpeedEvil> As I have all the stuff
[05:38:25] <pink_vampire> i want to sent it out..
[05:38:27] <SpeedEvil> If you're willing to DIY, it's really quite cheap
[05:38:42] <XXCoder> heard its possible to anaode in own, with few proper stuff as well as large cooler box
[05:38:49] <XXCoder> think capt was one who did it
[05:38:53] <SpeedEvil> sulphuric acid isn't expensive or particularly nasty, and dye is readiy available.
[05:39:06] <SpeedEvil> Very important to clean absolutely perfectly first.
[05:39:13] <SpeedEvil> Unless you like the tie-dye look
[05:39:14] <pink_vampire> I dont want all the acid stuff in my home.
[05:39:36] <XXCoder> SpeedEvil: wonder if can abuse that and somehow tie dye loo with many colors
[05:39:52] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: XXCoder: I think I'll stick with this insead https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLoukoBs8TE
[05:40:29] <SpeedEvil> XXCoder: wax resist on the surface of clean aluminium - anodise - clean some off, anodise different colour, repeat
[05:40:39] <XXCoder> nice speed
[05:41:10] <XXCoder> guy has tougher feet than me
[05:41:48] <pink_vampire> http://profileprecisionextrusions.com/services/aluminum-anodizing/
[05:42:29] <XXCoder> man everything takes so much time back then
[05:43:20] <Jymmm> XXCoder: You should see hit tile hut video
[05:43:26] <Jymmm> his*
[05:43:28] <XXCoder> ok
[05:43:59] <XXCoder> heh old style cook to strength - wood. first of its type I guess
[05:46:23] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Now you'll know how to hunt and have shelter form nothing =)
[05:46:31] <XXCoder> guess lol
[05:46:34] <XXCoder> guess so*
[05:47:14] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Heres the tile hut https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P73REgj-3UE
[05:51:35] <XXCoder> nice
[05:51:46] <XXCoder> fired clay is one of earliest materials
[05:51:55] <XXCoder> and most enturing material we got still
[05:51:56] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Thought you might appreciate that =)
[05:52:24] <XXCoder> aliens will think we had tiolets as idols, it will be found in all ruins
[05:52:33] <Jymmm> lol
[05:52:36] <XXCoder> most common shitty god in usa
[05:52:40] <XXCoder> ;)
[05:52:43] <Jymmm> porceilen godess
[05:53:08] <XXCoder> or another 1,000 years later, toilets will be one of damn few traces left.
[05:53:24] <XXCoder> aliens will puzzle why it was made.
[05:54:03] <XXCoder> roof really is pretty amazing
[05:54:11] <XXCoder> also amazing huge amount of work for one guy
[05:54:46] <jthornton> morning
[05:54:59] <XXCoder> hey very early morning to you too
[05:57:01] <XXCoder> Jymmm: he has physicality of guy who works all time. not very large but probably can whip puffy muscled guy
[06:02:22] <XXCoder> nice
[06:02:33] <XXCoder> that hut would last for quite a while
[06:02:42] <XXCoder> everything is protected from elements
[06:02:51] <XXCoder> well door definitely not but easy to replace
[06:03:28] <Jymmm> XXCoder: heh. He built up that video from making other tools, but what you don't see and you KNOW that it happened, is all the failures, the cracked tiles, the thousands of branches that just didn't do what they were suppose to, etc.
[06:03:48] <XXCoder> yeah I assumed there was bunch of failures
[06:03:57] <XXCoder> no project goes without failures
[06:37:43] <XXCoder> oh yeah
[06:37:52] <XXCoder> I just got code p0135 for first time today
[06:38:05] <XXCoder> o2 heater error code. strange.
[06:48:32] <pink_vampire> anther part is done.
[06:50:06] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Realize that it could also be the sensor itself failing or wiring
[06:50:20] <XXCoder> Jymmm: its diffult to know for sure
[06:50:45] * miss0r|shop just packed up his arboga U2508 for the last time (que melodramatic music).
[06:50:45] <XXCoder> but my van matches on all symtons
[06:50:55] <XXCoder> lowered fuel ecomony, bad idle, misfirings
[06:51:04] <miss0r|shop> Car troubles? that my homefield
[06:51:06] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Not really, Look up the diag in the factory service manual. they wll give troubleshooting procedures
[06:51:22] <XXCoder> miss0r|shop: I just got p0135 for nissan quest
[06:51:27] <XXCoder> first time it ever appeared
[06:51:36] <XXCoder> along with p0400, probably side effect
[06:52:51] <miss0r|shop> acording to my software here, its probally a faulty sensor (O2, BANK 1, SENSOR 0-1)
[06:53:02] <XXCoder> indeed
[06:53:11] <XXCoder> I love my bluetooth odb2 lol
[06:53:18] <miss0r|shop> :]
[06:53:22] <Jymmm> Appreciate the drill bit. drill press, is that a flywheel in your pocket, lighter... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEl-Y1NvBVI
[06:53:46] <XXCoder> I might finally buy one, but not too sure how to find it. I do have vehicle bible though lol
[06:53:57] <XXCoder> (the car repair guide manual)
[06:54:03] <Jymmm> XXCoder: ebay
[06:54:18] <Jymmm> XXCoder: or goto forums and look around
[06:54:26] <Jymmm> might be downloadable
[06:54:35] <XXCoder> why as I already has a copy
[06:55:00] <miss0r|shop> I might just be stupid here - call nissan.. sometimes the original is alot cheaper than one would think. and they will most likely be willing to deliever a installation manual/explotion picture with it
[06:55:05] <Jymmm> ok, then I'm confused
[06:55:18] <miss0r|shop> the sensor
[06:55:23] <miss0r|shop> Jymmm: ^
[06:55:25] <XXCoder> I also already downloaded factory repair guide
[06:55:32] <XXCoder> miss0r|shop: ok will do so
[06:55:57] <Jymmm> miss0r|shop: IF it's a sensor itself.
[06:56:00] <miss0r|shop> another plus about that solution, you are more likely to get the correct part in the first try
[06:56:05] <Jymmm> s/a/the/
[06:56:31] <miss0r|shop> indeed. but some 'incognito' questionening while requesting a part purchase, will probally give a hint
[06:57:06] <Jymmm> heh, true
[06:57:06] <XXCoder> my van had been fixed quite a bunch times to fix idle issues
[06:57:13] <XXCoder> it improved a lot, but not idle bahhhhh
[06:57:17] <miss0r|shop> like: I was wondering if you could quote me a price for xxx. [while he/she is locating the part, remark the error].. something like that
[06:57:20] <XXCoder> thankfully all cheap
[06:57:56] <XXCoder> most expensive was fuel pump though, but then van was undrivable after that decided to die lol
[06:58:26] <miss0r|shop> that usualy goes hand in hand. it seems, the more critical the part is, the more expensive it is ;)
[06:58:30] <miss0r|shop> thats how they get'ya
[06:59:05] <XXCoder> indeed
[06:59:54] * miss0r|shop is clearing space & vacuueming the shop floor for the new mill.
[07:00:04] <miss0r|shop> I have NO IDEA where all this dirt comes from
[07:00:38] <miss0r|shop> it looks like an aluminum mud slide in here
[07:01:06] <XXCoder> miss0r|shop: dirt comes from dirt
[07:01:14] <XXCoder> thats why you seem to be never rid of em
[07:01:48] <miss0r|shop> at one point in time, I was planning to clear out the shop completely, and get a nice white/gray epoxy floor
[07:02:07] <miss0r|shop> but now I have 10+ metric tons of equipment in here... I can't seem to get around to it :)
[07:02:33] <miss0r|shop> at the moment I have a raw concrete floor - it does tend to collect alot of stuff
[07:02:36] <XXCoder> cant do on sections?
[07:03:00] <miss0r|shop> well - I know a guy who does it for a living, and he reccomended against it
[07:03:26] <miss0r|shop> it can create somewhat of a 'binding issue' where the newly poured meets the old
[07:04:22] <_methods> buwhahahahhah
[07:04:39] <_methods> amphenol aerospace just got put on mil-qualification hold
[07:04:48] <_methods> stop ship
[07:04:55] <miss0r|shop> heh.. if you'd seen the inside of my shop, you'd know sectioning it wouldn't be easy either, I have very little space left in here. like - the large mill in here it has a spot, and the only way to move it would be to shove it outside
[07:04:59] <_methods> MIL-DTL-22992, MIL-DTL-26482, MIL-DTL-26500, MIL-DTL-27599, MIL-DTL-38999, MIL-
[07:05:02] <_methods> DTL-55302, MIL-DTL-83513, MIL-DTL-83723 products; FSC 5935; VQP-16-030163
[07:05:16] <_methods> 1. Sourcing of components from unapproved facilities, specifically components from the
[07:05:19] <_methods> People?s Republic of China.
[07:05:21] <_methods> 2. Delinquency of testing for retention of qualification for Mil-Specs listed above.
[07:05:39] <_methods> that is gonna screw some people up big time
[07:06:35] <miss0r|shop> speaking of fscked up stuff. did you guys hear about the $280mil ship to be named 'boaty McBoatface' ? http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/22/world/europe/boaty-mcboatface-what-you-get-when-you-let-the-internet-decide.html?_r=0
[07:07:47] <XXCoder> yeah heard of that
[07:07:50] <XXCoder> fun name
[07:08:04] <miss0r|shop> British humour at its best.
[07:08:42] <XXCoder> miss0r|shop: british painting of guy with apple on face? replace it with boat
[07:08:47] <XXCoder> and it can be that boat icon
[07:09:18] <miss0r|shop> hehe. is that painting British ?
[07:09:30] <XXCoder> hmm I thought so
[07:09:35] <miss0r|shop> Belgian
[07:09:49] <miss0r|shop> René Magritte
[07:09:56] <miss0r|shop> thank you wiki
[07:10:06] <XXCoder> son of man
[07:10:35] <XXCoder> too bad, if it was british it'd be funnier but it still works.
[07:12:27] <miss0r|shop> I seem to recall an episode of Family Guy, where Peter and Chris creates a cartoon, with realy shitty drawings ofc. They had a character named something like that. like duck mccrap face or something like that - I Can't quite recall
[07:16:07] <XXCoder> lol ok
[07:17:33] <miss0r|shop> never mind - He was called 'poop face tomato nose'...
[07:17:38] <miss0r|shop> Back to cleaning
[07:17:59] <XXCoder> lol later and thanks
[07:34:07] <miss0r|shop> do any of you have a good solution for pulling out/removing concrete anchors from a floor? I have to remove a machine acnhored with 4 such. and If possible, it don't want to have to lift it that much
[07:34:51] <jdh> we lift the corner and sawzall
[07:35:10] <archivist> lift it enough to angle grind them flush
[07:36:00] <archivist> I never anchor the machines, move them too often to get more in
[07:36:45] <miss0r|shop> yeah well. my 'newly' installed machines have the holes for the anchors drilled deep enough for me to hammer them level with the floor in case of removal - i did not think of that when installing this particular machine
[07:37:06] <miss0r|shop> I will do the lifty-cutty thing. sucks that the machine weight in at 2 tons
[07:42:39] <archivist> quite often some of my machines remain on the rollers/bits of wood
[07:45:18] <Tom_itx> 36F
[07:45:25] <Tom_itx> 80 yesterday
[07:50:45] <miss0r|shop> archivist: how do you keep the steady doing that (vibration) ?
[07:51:03] <archivist> gravity
[07:51:41] <miss0r|shop> most my machines have a pretty small base - I wouldn't be comfortable with thtat
[07:52:59] <archivist> like this one living on rollers http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2011/2011_07_13_Adcock_and_Shipley/IMG_1139.JPG
[07:53:51] <archivist> later on moved a bit to packers and one roller http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/2012_06_15_Adcock_Shipley/IMG_1249.JPG
[07:54:20] <enleth> gregcnc: well that is an option, although it would probably make it pretty difficult to work to blued marks
[07:55:11] <miss0r|shop> archivist: i realy wouldn't be happy about that
[07:55:13] <enleth> gregcnc: so in the old days of bluing, scratching and hand cranking without DROs, they must have just protected themselves with clothing I guess
[07:55:53] <archivist> miss0r|shop, as you can see it is in use in those pics, dated a year apart
[07:56:42] <archivist> I never know if I need to turn/move some day
[07:57:41] <miss0r|shop> indeed. but in the latter picture, you have it blocked up in one side, atleast. that makes me feel better.
[07:57:47] <archivist> machine CG always inside the footprint with the loads I put on
[07:59:08] <archivist> now for risky http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=statfold+milling
[07:59:41] <archivist> note the crane left holding the load :)
[08:00:06] <miss0r|shop> o_O
[08:00:38] <archivist> never looked to see if it was bolted to the floor
[10:15:02] <MrSunshine> ahh, squared up a piece for scraping in the lathe =) worked out nice =)
[10:53:46] <Polymorphism> how much do I need to spend to cut 1-4mm aluminum plate?
[10:53:53] <Polymorphism> weither diy or prebuilt
[10:55:06] <Polymorphism> this is a very difficult question to answer apparently
[10:55:07] <archivist> a jigsaw, a fretsaw a bandsaw, a water jet
[10:55:25] <_methods> wtf is 1-4mm plate
[10:55:40] <Polymorphism> jigsaw is sloppy
[10:55:46] <archivist> 1 to 4 1.4 or what
[10:55:47] <cradek> shear
[10:56:01] <_methods> your question is so vague it would be impossible to give any meaningful answer
[10:56:07] <Polymorphism> _methods, seriously? 1-4mm thick aluminum sheet
[10:56:22] <_methods> seriously wtf does that even mean
[10:56:26] <archivist> 1 to 4 do you mean
[10:56:26] <_methods> what size
[10:56:29] <Polymorphism> the actual item, are the extruded project enclosure cover plates and surfaces
[10:56:29] <SpeedEvil> Chisel, hammer
[10:56:33] <Polymorphism> 12x12" max
[10:56:41] <_methods> now that i understand
[10:56:41] <Polymorphism> small electronic enclosures
[10:56:42] <Simonious> In solidworks when I do 'make drawing from part', my width and height are in metric.. I'd love to change this to use standard paper sizes 8/5"x11" usually - how do I do this
[10:56:45] <Polymorphism> I'm looking to go into production
[10:56:48] <_methods> 12"x12"x 4mm thick
[10:56:52] <Polymorphism> so I want the cuts very professional
[10:56:54] <_methods> is that what you mean
[10:56:59] <Polymorphism> thats why I'm thinking cnc is the way to go
[10:57:01] <Polymorphism> yes
[10:57:04] <archivist> extrusions are not so simple to cut
[10:57:42] <_methods> aluminum/steel/stainless/copper/brass?
[10:57:49] <_methods> ah alum
[10:57:52] <_methods> sorry just saw that
[10:57:57] <Polymorphism> http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0412/2461/products/KGrHqJHJE8FCnvfREnfBQvZpsRfk_60_1_ec535843-21ed-49ab-b509-1c7348331eb2_large.jpeg?v=1406017501
[10:58:10] <Polymorphism> I'm making products and I want to start production
[10:58:17] <SpeedEvil> you just want to cut the faceplates, not the sides?
[10:58:24] <_methods> what kinds of quantities
[10:58:30] <Polymorphism> well I'd like to be able to cut the enclosure itself
[10:58:32] <Polymorphism> as well as the panels
[10:58:38] <_methods> any local machine/sheetmetal shop can do that for you
[10:58:42] <Polymorphism> I know that
[10:58:48] <Polymorphism> I have 5000 dollars for new tools
[10:58:52] <Polymorphism> I want to do this at home
[10:58:55] <Polymorphism> produce in hosue 100%
[10:59:02] <_methods> holy fuck
[10:59:04] <Polymorphism> ideallyt I would even cut the enclosure from scratch
[10:59:05] <_methods> this is painful
[10:59:13] <Polymorphism> I dont want to pay a machine shopo
[10:59:18] <Polymorphism> why would I be in here askinbg about cnc?
[10:59:23] <Polymorphism> obviously I know I can pay someone else to do it
[10:59:27] <Polymorphism> I could even do it at my makerspace
[10:59:30] <Polymorphism> I want to OWN the machine
[10:59:32] <Polymorphism> thats what I'm asking about
[10:59:36] <Polymorphism> what machine to buy or build
[10:59:38] <Polymorphism> to get into cnc
[10:59:41] <Polymorphism> and these are my requirements
[10:59:44] <Polymorphism> my budget is 5000 dollars
[10:59:48] <_methods> Polymorphism> how much do I need to spend to cut 1-4mm aluminum plate?
[10:59:51] <Polymorphism> ideally, I'd like to stay under 3500
[11:00:01] <_methods> that was your question
[11:00:01] <Polymorphism> well I could see myself building a new guitar as well
[11:00:04] <Polymorphism> cutting pcbs
[11:00:04] <Polymorphism> etc
[11:00:07] <Polymorphism> if I had a nice machine
[11:00:09] <Polymorphism> like the raptor
[11:00:22] <Polymorphism> but I don't know if it's a ripoff, or if its way more than I need
[11:00:26] <Polymorphism> thats why I'm here, asking for advice
[11:00:36] <Polymorphism> I also see the Nomad 883, carvey, etc
[11:00:39] <Polymorphism> not sure how those stack up
[11:00:48] <Polymorphism> but I'm facing the real decision of which machine to purchase or build
[11:01:40] <Polymorphism> Shapeoko 3 looks nice too for ~1000 and a large cutting area
[11:01:45] <Polymorphism> but I've heard rigidity concerns
[11:03:14] <Polymorphism> so my basic requirement, is just 1-4mm thick aluminum 12" x 12"
[11:07:47] <Polymorphism> nobody?
[11:07:51] <Polymorphism> 155 people in here
[11:07:58] <Polymorphism> does anyone in here actually own a mill
[11:08:00] <Polymorphism> is this a channel about cnc
[11:08:13] * Polymorphism confused
[11:08:47] <tiwake> most people are at work, you know, working?
[11:09:03] <tiwake> :P
[11:09:11] <tiwake> except me, I'm between jobs
[11:09:35] <_methods> lol of course people in here have mills
[11:09:40] <_methods> i have 2 in my garage
[11:09:49] <_methods> and a whole bunch at work
[11:09:53] <cradek> it's hard to cut thin stuff with a mill. water/plasma are probably better, designing your enclosures so you can build them with a shear and brake is maybe even better
[11:10:16] <tiwake> cradek: its pretty easy with a good vacuum holder thing
[11:10:25] <tiwake> they are not cheap though
[11:10:28] <tiwake> heh
[11:11:03] <Polymorphism> fixturing wax
[11:11:05] <Polymorphism> ?
[11:11:05] <cradek> yeah, lots of it depends on the actual design
[11:11:10] <_methods> but when you start snapping at people that try and answer your vague question they will probably be reluctant to help
[11:11:25] <Polymorphism> remind me when I snapped?
[11:11:32] <Polymorphism> <_methods> seriously wtf does that even mean
[11:11:39] <Polymorphism> your first response
[11:12:07] <Polymorphism> water//plasma cutters look out of my budget
[11:12:15] <tiwake> waterjet is badass
[11:12:17] <Polymorphism> shear and break I dont know what it is, I'll look that up
[11:12:18] <tiwake> get one
[11:12:35] <cradek> fixturing for production should not be fiddly
[11:13:03] <_methods> _methods> wtf is 1-4mm plate
[11:13:07] <_methods> that was my first response
[11:13:07] <cradek> sure you can use superglue or carpet tape or wax sometimes, but that's not going to be a good solution like waterjet might be
[11:13:10] <Polymorphism> I dont see any watert jet in my budget
[11:13:26] <tiwake> maybe your budget should be bigger
[11:13:31] <Polymorphism> it is what it is
[11:13:36] <Polymorphism> $3500 is already a lot to spend on one tool
[11:13:43] <cradek> or in-house might not be practical?
[11:13:53] <tiwake> that will hardly get you a knee mill these days
[11:14:13] <Polymorphism> http://www.xzerocnc.com/raptor.htm
[11:14:20] <Polymorphism> looks like it gets me a cnc that might be MORe than I need
[11:14:24] <Polymorphism> thats what I'm trying to determine
[11:14:34] <Polymorphism> I could become a luthier on the side
[11:15:00] <malcom2073> Loetmichel2 Does a lot of sheet metal work with a 6040, it might be good to talk to him
[11:15:06] <_methods> ^^
[11:15:08] <malcom2073> for enclosures and the like
[11:15:11] <tiwake> bleh aluminum
[11:15:15] <cradek> unprotected ballscrews and no provision for coolant
[11:15:27] <malcom2073> i think he uses a vacuume table to hold them down
[11:15:28] <cradek> you need coolant for milling aluminum
[11:15:47] <cradek> I agree vacuum fixturing is likely to be the winner for sheet stuff
[11:16:08] <tiwake> a good vacuum fixture kit will be in excess of $1000
[11:16:33] <cradek> by production do you mean 10, 100, 1000, 10000?
[11:16:35] <Polymorphism> could that secure entire enclosures as well?
[11:16:39] <tiwake> hmm, though I don't have a whole lot to base that off of
[11:17:27] <Polymorphism> 6040 doesnt look bad
[11:17:32] <Polymorphism> its a lot less than that raptor
[11:17:39] <_methods> Loetmichel made his right on the table i believe
[11:17:58] <tiwake> Polymorphism: have you checked craigslist? if you keep a close eye on it you might find a good cheap machine (haas VF3) for a few thousand
[11:18:24] <Polymorphism> itsnt that 65,000 new?
[11:18:34] <Polymorphism> and I can't fit that in my home
[11:18:35] <tiwake> new yeah, you don't need new
[11:18:49] <Polymorphism> it also looks like more than I need
[11:18:56] <tiwake> then why are you... w/e
[11:19:00] <_methods> lol
[11:19:00] <Polymorphism> ?
[11:19:04] <Polymorphism> I said my budget was 5000 max
[11:19:11] <tiwake> I'm done
[11:19:12] <Polymorphism> I know that can get me what I need
[11:19:19] <Polymorphism> as there are complete options on youtube premade
[11:19:22] <Polymorphism> milling thicker metal
[11:19:23] <Polymorphism> for less
[11:19:28] <Polymorphism> I'm asking , how much is too much
[11:19:36] <Polymorphism> what is the most basic machine I can get away with to do this job
[11:19:46] <Polymorphism> cut out odd shaped holes in the 1-4mm plate to put the components
[11:19:47] <_methods> a coping saw
[11:19:52] <Polymorphism> I can't do it by hand
[11:19:52] <_methods> and hand drill
[11:19:52] <CaptHindsight> nope, doing it all wrong
[11:19:55] <Polymorphism> it doesnt work for me
[11:19:57] <Polymorphism> I tried it by hand
[11:19:57] <CaptHindsight> you're supposed to ask the same questions every few hours until you get the answer you want to hear
[11:19:59] <Polymorphism> the results were sloppy
[11:20:11] <_methods> practice more
[11:20:16] <Polymorphism> whats witht he odd attitude in here?
[11:20:29] <Polymorphism> do you dispute 5000 is enough for a unit that will do what I need?
[11:20:35] <Polymorphism> someone just said a guy is doing this with the 6040
[11:20:38] <Polymorphism> and vacuum fixture
[11:20:40] <Polymorphism> thats only 2000
[11:20:40] <_methods> it's more than enough
[11:20:44] <Polymorphism> way under my budget
[11:20:52] <Polymorphism> is that what is being recommended ?
[11:20:53] <cradek> ah, "cut odd shaped holes in plate" is some new detail to your question
[11:21:11] <_methods> i think he wants to machine the housing too
[11:21:17] <Polymorphism> I could, but its not required
[11:21:23] <_methods> but i don't think any of those machines have enough z
[11:21:28] <Polymorphism> I just want to be able to machine the cutouts in existing housings
[11:21:40] <Polymorphism> my max z required is 2.6"
[11:21:49] <Polymorphism> these enclosures arent too thick
[11:21:59] <Polymorphism> I was envisioning putting the entire box in there
[11:22:02] <_methods> then a 6040 should do the trick
[11:22:03] <Polymorphism> and machining the LCD cutout on top
[11:22:10] <Polymorphism> and then putting the plates in and doing the power antenna etc cutouts
[11:22:32] <Polymorphism> I'll read up more on the 6040
[11:22:34] <cradek> that is a job for a press
[11:22:41] <Polymorphism> a press?
[11:22:49] <tiwake> for news
[11:22:55] <tiwake> you know, the news press
[11:23:04] <cradek> it's easier to punch shapes like that than cut them
[11:23:05] <Polymorphism> https://www.amphenolcanada.com/ProductSearch/drawings/AC/MUSBD111XX.pdf
[11:23:07] <Polymorphism> there is an example
[11:23:12] <Polymorphism> of a type of cutout I need to do
[11:23:27] <Polymorphism> https://cdn-shop.adafruit.com/1200x900/2229-00.jpg
[11:23:34] <Polymorphism> that is the box I would like to cut
[11:23:36] <Polymorphism> all faces
[11:23:43] <Polymorphism> or at least the end plates
[11:24:13] <Polymorphism> I figure I could then engrave the control labeling
[11:24:18] <Polymorphism> with the same machine
[11:24:31] <Polymorphism> I'm trying to start a business
[11:24:48] <Polymorphism> cradek, I would need custom dies though
[11:24:51] <tiwake> you should get a news press
[11:25:00] <Polymorphism> I'd like to be able to try different cuts, prototype in house , etc
[11:25:05] <Polymorphism> and then move to production witht ehs ame machine
[11:25:15] * Polymorphism looks up news press
[11:25:48] <Polymorphism> this doesnt seem like what I need
[11:27:33] <CaptHindsight> http://www.toxel.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/cheese07.jpg I wonder if there is a market for CNC'ed versions
[11:27:50] <Polymorphism> not sure why you mock someone trying to start a business
[11:27:52] <Polymorphism> with legitimate questions
[11:28:09] <Polymorphism> I'm going to talk to the 6040 person when they return
[11:28:10] <cradek> Polymorphism: true about custom dies. whether that's worth it depends on how big your production will be.
[11:28:22] <Polymorphism> probably 10-20 unit run to start
[11:28:26] <CaptHindsight> carving by hand seems tedious
[11:28:26] <Polymorphism> hopefully more from there
[11:28:35] <Polymorphism> yeah I cant do this by hand
[11:28:38] <tiwake> each hour? each day? each week? each month? each year?
[11:28:40] <Polymorphism> just one product has as many as 10 cuts
[11:28:54] <cradek> cool, homemade: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuYCQEo17V0
[11:29:09] <Polymorphism> maybe 50-100 per year? I don't know
[11:29:22] <Polymorphism> for now I just want to be able to produce 1-10 professional looking enclosures
[11:29:25] <Polymorphism> and go from there
[11:29:30] <tiwake> a business should be able to make money by outsourcing everything
[11:29:44] <Polymorphism> I'm not going to outsource this part of it
[11:29:52] <Polymorphism> why does everyone say this?
[11:29:53] <tiwake> can you make money by outsourcing the work to start off with?
[11:30:07] <Polymorphism> I also want the machine for prototyping in house
[11:30:08] <CaptHindsight> has anyone seen the crimp tool used for solderless plumbing connections?
[11:30:10] <Polymorphism> so its not jusat for production
[11:30:15] <Polymorphism> thatsd why I would spend the money
[11:30:29] <Polymorphism> one off designs, custom builds, protoytypes, AND the ability for small batch in houser produiction
[11:30:34] <tiwake> thats what a knee mill is for
[11:30:35] <Polymorphism> if I need 100s of units I'll cross that bridge later
[11:30:39] <Polymorphism> and I won't consider the moneyu wasted
[11:30:53] <cradek> CaptHindsight: pex? I've used it lots
[11:30:56] * Polymorphism goes to look up knee mill
[11:31:26] <cradek> CaptHindsight: (in the US there are at least two currently-popular solderless plumbing schemes)
[11:31:32] <Polymorphism> is this just a manual mill
[11:31:52] <tiwake> yeah, and what you likely want for 'prototyping'
[11:31:57] <CaptHindsight> cradek: http://www.toolup.com/Ridgid-43433-RP-200-B-Press-Tool-Kit-with-ProPress-Jaws-1-2-to-1? did you use this tool?
[11:32:16] <Polymorphism> tiwake, how does the learning curve and cost compare?
[11:32:31] <CaptHindsight> http://www.toolup.com/Ridgid-43358-RP-340-Battery-Press-Tool-Kit-with-ProPress-Jaws-1-2-2 or up to 2"
[11:32:32] <Polymorphism> if the cost is similar or the learning curve steeper I would still want to go cnc
[11:32:39] <tiwake> do you want to be a machinist or a manufacturer?
[11:32:53] <cradek> CaptHindsight: jeez no
[11:32:59] <Polymorphism> that price is insane
[11:33:09] <Polymorphism> tiwake, manufacturer
[11:33:11] <Polymorphism> I want to spend my time coding
[11:33:13] <Polymorphism> and designing
[11:33:22] <Polymorphism> not struggling with power tools getting metal splinters
[11:33:27] <tiwake> if you want to be a manufacturer, outsource everything to start off with, and don't rush to buy a machine. If you want to be a machinist, get a machine right now.
[11:33:54] <Polymorphism> hmm
[11:34:00] <tiwake> now we are getting to the root. finally.
[11:34:07] <malcom2073> Or find a friend with a machine for you to use and play with
[11:34:17] <malcom2073> Or at least, to help you out with small runs and prototyping
[11:34:53] <tiwake> for prototyping you might be able to get away with renting a small portion of an existing machine shop, buy your own tooling, etc.
[11:35:14] <Polymorphism> there is even a local maker space with laser cutter plasma cutter 3d printer cnc etc
[11:35:19] <Polymorphism> but I want do produce in house..
[11:35:20] <cradek> CaptHindsight: here's very much like the stuff I used: http://www.ebay.com/itm/291195744826
[11:35:25] <tiwake> the most difficult thing about owning a machine is having a place to put it.
[11:35:27] <Polymorphism> I don't want to drive an hour each time to make a cut
[11:35:34] <cradek> CaptHindsight: the tubing cutter of that style is really useful too
[11:35:44] <tiwake> outsource the production to people who are good at production... likely somebody who has a waterjet machine
[11:36:03] <Polymorphism> tiwake, http://carbide3d.com/nomad/ what about machines like that
[11:36:08] <Polymorphism> I could put that on my work desk
[11:36:14] <Polymorphism> the work area is a little bit small
[11:36:37] <Polymorphism> 8x8"
[11:36:37] <CaptHindsight> cradek: a fraction of the price
[11:36:48] <tiwake> a micro mill?
[11:37:01] <Sync> get a 6040 with ballscrews and be happy
[11:37:04] <toastydeath> hey, this is a shot in the dark but does anyone in here know a decent amount about linux SAS and block devices?
[11:37:04] <cradek> CaptHindsight: the crimper takes a lot of strength and would be very tiring to run all day
[11:37:06] <tiwake> are you cutting out holes in sheet metal, or are you engraving stuff?
[11:37:15] <Polymorphism> tiwake, I'd like to do both
[11:37:23] <Polymorphism> I'd like to cut those little alumimum anodized enclosures
[11:37:25] <tiwake> thats two different machines
[11:37:29] <Polymorphism> and then engrave the logo + labveling
[11:37:39] <cradek> CaptHindsight: I can imagine quickly wanting a power crimper of some kind if you did it all day
[11:37:39] <Polymorphism> wouldnt it just be two different tools?
[11:37:52] <Polymorphism> just a .1mm cut or something
[11:37:54] <tiwake> different tools as well
[11:38:09] <CaptHindsight> cradek: yeah, looking at jaws, buy vs make
[11:38:10] <Polymorphism> did you see the examples
[11:38:22] <Polymorphism> they seem to imply I could cut my own pcb, cut my own enclosure, and engrave the logo + labels
[11:38:25] <Polymorphism> with one machine
[11:38:35] <malcom2073> Engraving is typically done at a significantly higher rpm than milling
[11:38:40] <Polymorphism> https://www.inventables.com/technologies/carvey
[11:38:40] <tiwake> can you make money if you outsource everything?
[11:38:41] <Polymorphism> also this
[11:38:50] <Polymorphism> no
[11:39:18] <tiwake> then its probably not a very well thought out business
[11:39:30] <Polymorphism> https://d2rhdy377k7eul.cloudfront.net/assets/carvey/product_slide2-ac6f5f4b3df3e7a963d7865d881e68b3.jpg
[11:39:33] <Polymorphism> thats a perfect example
[11:39:38] <Polymorphism> of what I'm trying to do
[11:39:47] <Polymorphism> and also an example of someone doing it as a business
[11:39:47] <CaptHindsight> jaws are ~$150ea not bad
[11:40:04] <Polymorphism> also this https://d2rhdy377k7eul.cloudfront.net/assets/carvey/product_slide6-3156b2da169eaf47fb310198dfd0f2b3.jpg
[11:40:19] <malcom2073> If you want to do small runs, get a machine and learn to be a machinist.
[11:41:00] <Polymorphism> it seems like milling by hand would be a steeper learning curve than learning to use a machine
[11:41:09] <tiwake> buying machines should not happen until you have a facility to house the machines, and enough work to keep all of said machines busy in the peak months. Fill in the lower volume months by looking to do other peoples work.
[11:41:13] <Polymorphism> especially one of these desktop mills that come with software that goes from cad straight ot the machine
[11:41:31] <cradek> to run a cnc you need to learn all the skills of a manual machinist and then also how to operate your computer stuff
[11:41:34] <Polymorphism> why is it so hard for people to just help advise me one WHAT to purchase though
[11:41:35] <Polymorphism> not if
[11:41:36] <Polymorphism> it's my money
[11:41:39] <Polymorphism> its disposable right now
[11:41:41] <Polymorphism> I want to buy a cnc
[11:41:44] <Polymorphism> ...
[11:41:49] <malcom2073> Polymorphism: Because there's no right answer
[11:42:00] <malcom2073> There are many different options that each have their pros and cons
[11:42:08] <Polymorphism> hmm
[11:42:13] <cradek> we're actually trying to help, instead of just answering your question because it is based on false assumptions
[11:42:17] <malcom2073> That, and a lot of people here are *really* against helping people shoot themselves in the foot, even if they don't believe they are doign so
[11:42:24] <Polymorphism> ok
[11:42:38] <gregcnc> there are people that just do what they want and learn along the way
[11:42:44] <cradek> for instance that cnc makes a part magically appear from a drawing in cad when you push the GO button
[11:42:55] <Polymorphism> I don't beleive its that easy
[11:43:00] <Polymorphism> I know there is a lot to learn
[11:43:06] <archivist> we know it is not easy
[11:43:17] <Polymorphism> it does seem like some of these all in one machine-software solutions might make it *easier*
[11:43:24] <malcom2073> They make it *seem* easier
[11:43:27] <tiwake> tooling, tool holders, be prepared to spend thousands just on tooling and measuring equipment
[11:43:30] <cradek> you can make your first part faster on a manual machine than on a cnc machine
[11:43:31] <Polymorphism> http://carbide3d.com/carbidecreate/
[11:43:32] <Polymorphism> like this
[11:43:34] <archivist> there is no "all in one"
[11:43:40] <Polymorphism> cradek, even for advanced cuts?
[11:43:46] <Polymorphism> https://www.amphenolcanada.com/ProductSearch/drawings/AC/MUSBD111XX.pdf
[11:43:46] <malcom2073> But you wind up spending more time making up for the shoddy machines than you would if you had started from a good starting point
[11:43:47] <Polymorphism> like this
[11:44:11] <cradek> well it depends. there are a lot fewer skills to learn to start, but you can't cut ellipse shapes or something like that.
[11:44:26] <Polymorphism> I need to cut ellipses etc
[11:44:36] <gregcnc> have you spent any time watching others do something like this? These days people put way too much info on instagram, youtube etc
[11:44:37] <Polymorphism> that part is just one example
[11:44:39] <Polymorphism> thats an actual part I use
[11:44:45] <cradek> ok but the point still stands
[11:44:57] <cradek> yes! youtube is great for seeing people's working setups
[11:45:03] <Polymorphism> gregcnc, yes I've watched a lot of youtube videos and read a lot of forums
[11:45:09] <cradek> how do you hold the work, stuff like that
[11:45:10] <Polymorphism> lots of conflicting info out there
[11:45:26] <gregcnc> none of it is conflicting, just different ways
[11:45:36] <Polymorphism> well in terms of opinions I meant
[11:45:44] <malcom2073> Goes back to the "there's no right answer"
[11:45:52] <gregcnc> no there isn't
[11:46:04] <gregcnc> but at some point you have to just take that leap
[11:46:19] <Polymorphism> so what is the general feeling about machines like the nomad
[11:46:21] <Polymorphism> or carvey
[11:46:25] <malcom2073> Polymorphism: They're pretty crap
[11:46:34] <CaptHindsight> Nomad sounds cool
[11:46:50] <malcom2073> sorry, speaking of the carvey
[11:46:55] <malcom2073> It's an engraving machine
[11:47:06] <Polymorphism> http://carbide3d.com/shapeoko/
[11:47:09] <Polymorphism> there is also that
[11:47:15] <Polymorphism> someone said it might not be rigid enoughb
[11:47:15] <CaptHindsight> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/178590870/the-nomad-cnc-mill i think I know who made that
[11:47:22] <malcom2073> That's a bit more sturdy
[11:47:50] <malcom2073> Polymorphism: That's the big issue with cutting aluminum, you'll get terrible finishes and ruin tools with a flimsy machine
[11:47:55] <malcom2073> vs cutting plastic or wood
[11:48:00] <CaptHindsight> different one, they are in CO and tend to use wood on the exterior of everything
[11:48:10] <cradek> the spindle looks like a wood router?
[11:48:25] <Polymorphism> its a dewalt router
[11:48:48] <cradek> you can't cut metal with a wood router
[11:48:59] <_methods> you "can"
[11:49:01] <Polymorphism> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfYc35KeTEY
[11:49:04] <_methods> but will it look good
[11:49:10] <Polymorphism> by the way, thats 20x thicker than I need
[11:49:11] <CaptHindsight> https://youtu.be/UVU2O48RBZ4?t=28s Carbide 3D Nomad 883 CNC Mill In Action
[11:49:14] <_methods> will it hold a tolerance
[11:49:15] <Polymorphism> 1-4 *millimeter*
[11:49:17] <malcom2073> Polymorphism: See my comment about ruining tools and shoddy cut qualitty
[11:49:18] <Polymorphism> alu is what I need to cut
[11:49:25] <Polymorphism> see my comment about thickness
[11:49:33] <Polymorphism> I dont need to do anythign that thick
[11:49:40] <malcom2073> Also, just listen to that chatter
[11:50:08] <Polymorphism> is that because no coolant?
[11:50:17] <gregcnc> you have to be realistic about how long it will take you to get running
[11:50:20] <Polymorphism> also so so much thicker than I need
[11:50:22] <malcom2073> no, it's because it's a wood router on a flimsy machine heh
[11:50:36] <cradek> the speed is way too high and there's no rigidity
[11:50:40] <malcom2073> Could also be that the feeds are wrong
[11:50:46] <gregcnc> if you have product to sell today but it takes 6 months to make a aluminum bezel plate, job it out
[11:50:51] <CaptHindsight> the spindle https://youtu.be/dvGtw1Qk1F0?t=40s
[11:51:01] <Polymorphism> 6 months??
[11:51:10] <gregcnc> maybe I don't know your ability
[11:51:21] <gregcnc> I'm delaing with people like that now
[11:51:23] <Polymorphism> mostly code, getting in to electronics now
[11:51:27] <malcom2073> Polymorphism: It iwll take you more than 6 months to go from getting the machine in the door, to producing a product assuming you've never run a mill, or designed a part for milling
[11:51:29] <gregcnc> never machined anything?
[11:51:32] <Polymorphism> no
[11:51:41] <gregcnc> 6 months
[11:51:48] <malcom2073> Less if you're spending 40 hours a day on it of course
[11:51:52] <malcom2073> but not much
[11:51:56] <tiwake> Polymorphism: you idiot... outsource the machining to somebody who has a water jet machine. Having been a machinist 10 years, and a part owner of a machine shop business for two years, do not buy a machine to cut out what you want. What you are doing is the same thing my business parters are doing and why the business is failing right now. This is why I left the LLC.
[11:52:04] <CaptHindsight> these guys figure out ways to make beer money selling routers, FDM printers, dog polishers etc.
[11:52:25] <tiwake> Polymorphism: get a machine to do your engraving if you want, but don't get the machine to cut out your plates or whatever
[11:52:43] <CaptHindsight> and Easy Bake Oven bakes, but you probably don't want to go into business with one
[11:52:44] <gregcnc> there has to be a way to make dog polishers and make living money
[11:53:01] <malcom2073> gregcnc: Shapeoko does :)
[11:53:21] <malcom2073> It's tough to beat the chinese at their own game though, 6040's are damn good *for the money*
[11:54:09] <Polymorphism> the 6040...
[11:54:22] <Polymorphism> is someone saying that can't cut what I need?
[11:54:38] <malcom2073> It can do what you need, I said this before. Loetmichel2 uses a 6040 to do exactly what you're looking to do
[11:54:39] <Polymorphism> https://cdn-shop.adafruit.com/1200x900/2230-00.jpg
[11:54:42] <CaptHindsight> who sells the 6040 that don't need rebuilding right out of the box?
[11:54:49] <Polymorphism> ^^
[11:54:52] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: That too heh
[11:54:55] <Polymorphism> thats why I'm asking how muich to spend
[11:54:59] <Polymorphism> so I don't need to do something like that
[11:55:08] <Polymorphism> out of the box working sounds like myt best option
[11:55:12] <Polymorphism> if it takes 6 months just to learnt he machine
[11:55:17] <Polymorphism> then I can't be building one as well
[11:55:18] <gregcnc> That metal box is extruded?
[11:55:18] <Polymorphism> and tweaking etc
[11:55:44] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: extrusion with sheet for end caps
[11:56:00] <gregcnc> yes, but where does the router fit in?
[11:56:08] <malcom2073> Polymorphism: That, I don't have any experience with, fully working machines out of the box are pretty far above my hobbiest budget :)
[11:56:26] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: I think he wants to make openings for connectors
[11:56:57] <Polymorphism> http://www.bitscope.com/product/BS120/05.jpg
[11:57:00] <Polymorphism> I want to turn that box into this one
[11:57:02] <Polymorphism> for example
[11:57:04] <Polymorphism> not the best example
[11:57:12] <Polymorphism> but I want to take those boxes and make them into professional looking enclosures
[11:57:20] <Polymorphism> cutout for LCD, usb, knobs, etc
[11:57:39] <gregcnc> and there are no suppliers of enclosures that will do that for you?
[11:57:47] <Polymorphism> with the end result being a product essentially indistiguishabler from profesisonal
[11:57:54] <Polymorphism> they will but its usually 100 MOQW
[11:57:55] <Polymorphism> MOQ
[11:58:13] <Polymorphism> -r
[11:58:43] <maxcnc> hi all from a rainy eastern weekend start in Germany
[11:58:50] <archivist> takes a lot of practice to get that finish
[11:58:55] <gregcnc> so how mcuh is 100 boxes VS machine and time cost
[11:59:14] <_methods> you'd never hit ROI on a run that small
[11:59:50] <maxcnc> Polymorphism: cand you buy a standard one and modyfi it
[11:59:54] <djdelorie> I once heard that a CNC machine only pays for itself if it's always running...
[12:00:04] <archivist> 10 off the setup has cost you 300 each minimum
[12:00:23] <Polymorphism> the machine doesnt need to pay for itself
[12:00:27] <Polymorphism> although I think it could
[12:00:35] <Polymorphism> I could potentially make a large profit on each system
[12:00:36] <maxcnc> the 6040 will do the modyfy
[12:01:56] <Polymorphism> the 6040 is sounding like a solid option
[12:02:20] <archivist> when I last did a product in a case we had the case front panel machined and screen printed at a local company
[12:02:20] <Polymorphism> its obviously much less money than some of these desktop enclosed machines like the nomad or carvey
[12:02:25] <Polymorphism> and around the same as the shapeoko 3
[12:02:27] <Polymorphism> is it higher quality?
[12:02:46] <Polymorphism> if I wanted to have these outsourced I could just get pcbs printed
[12:02:49] <Polymorphism> cut and silkscreened
[12:02:51] <Polymorphism> its a very clean option
[12:02:57] <Polymorphism> but I want to do this in house
[12:03:16] <Polymorphism> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj0Bv4UEFSs
[12:03:21] <Polymorphism> like that I could do
[12:03:24] <Polymorphism> but I want the metal plates
[12:04:05] <os1r1s2> Would you tie the fault line on a servo to the abort pin in linuxcnc?
[12:04:55] <cradek> os1r1s2: there's an input specifically for amplifier fault
[12:06:32] <cradek> os1r1s2: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/core-components.html#_pins
[12:06:39] <os1r1s2> cradek Ok. I'll research. I didn't find it in pncconf so I didn't know it was there :)
[12:07:12] <solosoft> hi, anyone here have compiled xenomai linux-rpi raspberry?
[12:09:13] <CaptHindsight> solosoft: I thought I saw a binary out there, if thats any help ;)
[12:10:04] <enleth> os1r1s2: I'd route all fault signals to the main feed and spindle power contactor if I were making a machine from scratch
[12:10:27] <enleth> os1r1s2: the control might get them too, but that's, like, a secondary concern
[12:10:32] <CaptHindsight> https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=74686
[12:10:47] <solosoft> yes, there are some raspbean imgs, sorry for not being more spesefic Im on archlinux
[12:11:47] <CaptHindsight> sorry I can't be anymore help, don't mess with arch anymore and have never touched a pi
[12:12:13] <CaptHindsight> well i did take it out of the box and look at it
[12:14:33] <os1r1s2> enleth: So how would that work from a wiring perspective?
[12:14:45] <solosoft> I have a old dektop pc running linuxcnc and paralell breakboard but I get realtime issues when milling and want to use the pi and arduino grbl
[12:14:47] <os1r1s2> enleth: The fault line would go to what which would kill the power?
[12:15:34] <enleth> os1r1s2: is it active-low or active-high? relay or transistor output?
[12:15:44] <CaptHindsight> solosoft: whats the jitter like?
[12:16:09] <os1r1s2> enleth: The motor driver supports either.
[12:16:28] <os1r1s2> enleth: Its coming from the driver, so transistor output
[12:17:03] <pcw_home> typically you will also need a pin from linuxcnc to reset the fault
[12:17:27] <enleth> os1r1s2: what my current mill does is route all such outputs to coils of low power relays, then routes the main contactor power through all those relays, e-stop buttons and limit switches, in series
[12:17:40] <enleth> so any of those going open cuts feed and spindle power
[12:18:28] <pcw_home> make sure you dont remove control power on a servo fault
[12:18:31] <solosoft> CaptHindsight, dont remember have been months since I used it but It was whitin its limits I remember when setting it up
[12:18:37] <Polymorphism> ok
[12:18:39] <Polymorphism> I just called inventables
[12:18:43] <Polymorphism> they said carvey wont do whaty I want
[12:18:43] <enleth> pcw_home: that too
[12:18:47] <Polymorphism> calling about nomad now
[12:19:37] <os1r1s2> pcw_home: So it sounds like the fault line should just pull back into 7i76 and abort ...
[12:19:37] <os1r1s2> Maybe disable the spindle too
[12:19:58] <enleth> if you want to depend on software for safety, yeah.
[12:20:03] <enleth> your call
[12:20:07] <enleth> I'm not going there
[12:20:42] <CaptHindsight> 6141 router, 1 better
[12:21:02] <os1r1s2> enleth: I'm just trying to understand. When you say control logic, do you mean from the breakout board or from the driver?
[12:21:31] <pcw_home> os1r1s2: thats the normal thing, if you want to disable servo power there may be a bootstrap issue to get the system up
[12:22:50] <enleth> os1r1s2: wait, when did I say that?
[12:23:13] <pcw_home> a servo fault stops the drives independent of any other software, whether you want to tie this into the Estop logic is up to you
[12:23:28] <CaptHindsight> solosoft: if thats true then why the real time error?
[12:24:18] <enleth> Polymorphism: I'm afraid you're just going to find out that most of those desktop router-engraver-whatnot-thingies are about as good for cutting aluminum as if they were made out of jello and well cooked noodle
[12:24:55] <enleth> pcw_home: is there any plausible reason not to do that?
[12:25:01] <Polymorphism> even thin alumnium like this enleth http://i00.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/154/924/510/510924154_629.JPG
[12:25:01] <Polymorphism> ?
[12:25:06] <Polymorphism> top, and end plates
[12:25:59] <enleth> Polymorphism: unfortunately, unless you're OK with the machine making horrible noises, leaving the cut edges ugly and dulling tools unreasonalby fast
[12:26:18] <pcw_home> Yes it often makes very awkward bootstrap issues unless the control and servo bus power are independent
[12:26:19] <os1r1s2> pcw_home: I'm using clearpath motors which have an embedded driver in them. So if I remove the power, I'm removing the power from both driver and motor.
[12:26:39] <Polymorphism> enleth, I'd like fairly clean edges although I could sand them smooth I just nedt he parts to fit...
[12:26:39] <CaptHindsight> I'd get the Nomad and then come back and talk about this in 6 months
[12:26:44] <Polymorphism> dulling tools doesnt sound good
[12:26:52] <Polymorphism> I called about nomad, they didnt answer
[12:26:55] <Polymorphism> not happy about that
[12:27:01] <enleth> pcw_home: ah, OK, I just assumed that control power being separate is a given
[12:27:05] <Polymorphism> inventables answered right away and said theiur machine is unsuitabnle for my needs
[12:27:21] <Polymorphism> horrible noises are fine
[12:27:25] <Polymorphism> rough edges ok but not ideal
[12:27:29] <Polymorphism> dulling tools, meh
[12:27:44] <Polymorphism> if it works it works...
[12:27:48] <Polymorphism> I dont want to abuse a machine though
[12:27:54] <Polymorphism> I want the right tool for this job
[12:28:01] <Polymorphism> even if it costs big $$$
[12:28:04] <Polymorphism> but not too big
[12:28:05] <Polymorphism> under 4k
[12:28:05] <enleth> Polymorphism: hint: if it looks pretty, is being marketed with shiny renders and photos of the thing sitting on an office table, is being sold by something that touts being a "startup" and has a "startupy" vibe around it: it's shit.
[12:28:24] <Polymorphism> thats been my fear...
[12:28:33] <gregcnc> big$$ and 4k......
[12:28:41] <CaptHindsight> ebay search terms: cheap Chinese router Returns mostly wifi routers
[12:28:43] <Polymorphism> I consider 4k big money, yes
[12:28:51] <Polymorphism> I know money is relative
[12:28:52] <gregcnc> it's not in the machining world
[12:28:55] <Polymorphism> to me, thats a lot to invest
[12:28:59] <Polymorphism> I'm a student still
[12:29:20] <gregcnc> that's why it's probably cheaper to get someone else to do it
[12:29:24] <djdelorie> wait, my cnc router looks like crap, does that mean it's good? ;-)
[12:29:36] <enleth> pcw_home: but if you *do* have separate control power, doing an e-stop on a drive fault seems to be a sensible thing to do
[12:29:53] <enleth> pcw_home: if you really want to, you could still restart on the spot, maybe saving a part
[12:30:21] <pcw_home> Yeah, but it suspect the integrated drives you lose everything
[12:30:46] <Polymorphism> 6040 looks like a solid option so far
[12:30:52] <enleth> er, what?
[12:30:59] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Powerful-Small-Size-Four-Axes-CNC-Router-for-Lighter-Phone-Watch-Carving-/281913464215 $2900
[12:31:06] <Polymorphism> if the raptor is "only" 1500 more though, is it better?
[12:31:17] <pcw_home> so really depends on where your safety/ vs time recovering from nuisance trips balance is
[12:31:39] <Polymorphism> the working area is a little too small CaptHindsight
[12:31:50] <Polymorphism> I need 8x8 to 12x12"
[12:31:52] <gregcnc> capt the powerful and willful one sounds beter
[12:32:14] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-6090-CNC-Router-Engraver-Machine-23-6-x35-5-x4-WorkSize-Free-Ship-by-Sea-/131578979681 $2990
[12:32:14] <pcw_home> ( I worry a bit more about this on DC servos since a component failure can cause a runaway regardless of drive enables )
[12:32:26] <enleth> pcw_home: sure. I'd not be happy with the drives giving me "nuisance" faults though, surely there's a problem somewhere if they keep happening
[12:32:58] <CaptHindsight> I'd add a nameplate "Metal Mutilator 5K"
[12:33:05] <Polymorphism> that looks amazoing capricorn_1
[12:33:09] <Polymorphism> CaptHindsight,
[12:33:13] <Polymorphism> whats the catch?
[12:33:16] <enleth> pcw_home: DC servos here, this is *exactly* why I'm so insistent on cutting power on faults
[12:33:23] <Polymorphism> other than the fact it would look absurd in my apartment
[12:33:27] <Polymorphism> if it even fits
[12:34:36] <malcom2073> Fwiw, do you have any idea how insanely loud these machines get?
[12:34:53] <Polymorphism> yes
[12:35:04] <Polymorphism> I would run them during the day for neighbors
[12:35:08] <Polymorphism> not night
[12:35:20] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/262330315038 2 mills for 1, keep 1, sell the other $4k
[12:35:23] <Polymorphism> this machine doesnt look like it would handle aluminum perhapps
[12:35:38] <Polymorphism> too far away
[12:35:48] <Polymorphism> but a used option might make sense..
[12:36:34] <enleth> pcw_home: and why I tested my mill by causing deliberate runaways, to see if the limit switches get it to stop if it ever decides to shoot the table through the wall for some reason. They do.
[12:37:20] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Okuma-MX-45VAE-CNC-Vertical-Machining-Center-NO-RESERVE-AUCTION-/162015206914
[12:38:06] <Polymorphism> thats out of my budget
[12:38:17] <Polymorphism> and realstically I need a smaller machine
[12:38:20] <Polymorphism> that can fit in an apartment
[12:38:54] <CaptHindsight> Polymorphism: that message with gregcnc on the front end, was for gregcnc
[12:38:55] <gregcnc> how muhc of the price of the product is the machining for the case?
[12:39:23] <CaptHindsight> Woodstock
[12:39:33] <gregcnc> needs spindle rebuild
[12:40:02] <Polymorphism> CaptHindsight, like I said, out of my budget
[12:40:13] <gregcnc> would still be a reasonable price if the rest was OK.
[12:42:33] <CaptHindsight> you can't help some people, some just have to learn the hard way on their own
[12:42:45] <CaptHindsight> and that's ok
[12:43:09] <gregcnc> polymorphism, if bringing the machining of that case in house is making or breaking profitability of this product it sound like the price is far too low
[12:44:03] <Polymorphism> I still need a way right now to continue prototyping
[12:44:09] <Polymorphism> before I even move to production
[12:44:16] <os1r1s2> enleth: I could always run the enable line through the e-stop so that it kills the drives outside of linuxcnc control.
[12:44:24] <Polymorphism> and now I'm faced with the option of a cnc that can do this, or buying a 100 dollar scroll saw
[12:44:29] <Polymorphism> and trying to do it by hand with adhesive templates
[12:44:41] <Polymorphism> the last time I just taped it on and it was a complete failure
[12:44:49] <gregcnc> is the case a functional part of the product?
[12:45:02] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cat-50-cnc-mill-tool-holders-/301897122354 "hand tossed into a box from across the room" $3200 or best
[12:45:07] <Polymorphism> if the case is professional enough I could sell one of these tomorrow
[12:45:13] <Polymorphism> if it looks like a sloppy hack job that wont fly
[12:45:34] <Polymorphism> CaptHindsight, lol
[12:45:56] <gregcnc> there are boxes like that on local CL too
[12:46:20] <gregcnc> that's my point about waiting 6 months
[12:49:34] <enleth> os1r1s2: makes a lot of sense, but that's not related to fault signals, isn't it?
[12:49:54] <os1r1s2> enleth: Guess it isn't :)
[12:51:39] <maxcnc> im Off have a nice Eastern
[12:54:06] <os1r1s2> Is the time for step and dir in microseconds or milliseconds?
[12:54:29] <pcw_home> nanoseconds
[12:55:56] <Loetmichel2> Polymorphism: you wanted to know something about sheet metal work on a Chinese CNC6040?
[13:01:52] <Loetmichel2> hrrrmpf... call from the mechanic: car is done. bill is "only" 3899.50€... will have to up my overdraft allowance for that :-(
[13:02:13] <_methods> ouch
[13:02:39] <Tom_itx> or get another car
[13:02:56] <Loetmichel2> its a bit late for that, Tom_itx
[13:04:45] <Polymorphism> ok
[13:04:45] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel2: tell him all about cutting aluminum on the 6040
[13:04:50] <Polymorphism> I just talked to apollo from carbide 3d
[13:04:56] <Polymorphism> the nomad 883 sounds like a VERY nice option
[13:05:02] <Polymorphism> he claims it will do everything I'm asking
[13:05:08] <Polymorphism> and I will be making my first cut on day 1!!!
[13:05:35] <Tom_itx> claims are not always facts
[13:05:38] <CaptHindsight> _methods: ever notice how they behave and sound very similar, but new nick
[13:05:40] <Polymorphism> I think thats a little bit optimistic yeah
[13:05:42] <Polymorphism> about day 1
[13:05:47] <Polymorphism> but I think the machine might do what he says
[13:06:02] <Polymorphism> he told me hes cut 1/8" aluminum some titatium etc and he didnt sound like a liar
[13:06:04] <Tom_itx> what leads you to believe it will?
[13:06:06] <Polymorphism> it was nice to talk to a real person about it
[13:06:19] <Polymorphism> well he sounded honest to me
[13:06:35] <Polymorphism> he said the machine is geared towards those with no cnc experience
[13:06:40] <Tom_itx> must be a damn good salesman
[13:06:46] <CaptHindsight> _methods: keep asking until you hear what you want, suck up the attention
[13:06:47] <Polymorphism> he was
[13:07:06] <gregcnc> the machine doesn't know or care how much experience the operator has
[13:07:11] <Tom_itx> so _methods wtf's for lunch?
[13:07:15] <Polymorphism> thats why I like this machine
[13:07:17] <pcw_home> "promises are neither facts nor lies"
[13:07:19] <Polymorphism> the included software loks powerful
[13:08:10] <Polymorphism> I dunno
[13:08:14] <Polymorphism> I'm skeptical yeah
[13:08:22] <Polymorphism> but these guys also make it by hand
[13:08:26] <Polymorphism> software is included
[13:08:32] <Polymorphism> there is something to be said for this option
[13:08:38] <Polymorphism> I need to research more
[13:09:18] <Polymorphism> he basically said also, the shapeoko is nice, larger bed etc
[13:09:23] <Polymorphism> but if the nomad works for me, its the bettyer option
[13:09:34] <Polymorphism> they do seem quite different
[13:09:35] <CaptHindsight> same M.O.
[13:09:39] <Polymorphism> even though they are sold by the same company
[13:09:40] <Tom_itx> if i made it by hand i'd be proud too
[13:09:52] <Polymorphism> I'm sure I'll be paying a premium
[13:09:56] <Polymorphism> for a ready to run machine
[13:09:58] <Polymorphism> but maybe its fair
[13:10:04] <Polymorphism> thats what I'm trying to find out
[13:10:11] <Polymorphism> is this machine functional
[13:10:22] <Polymorphism> the pictures make it look amazing
[13:10:42] <Tom_itx> that's the marketing dept
[13:11:01] <Polymorphism> oh cool
[13:11:01] <Polymorphism> http://instagify.com/user/apolloness/998997889
[13:11:04] <Polymorphism> this is the guy I just talked to
[13:11:49] <Polymorphism> the parts being produced look quality
[13:11:57] <Polymorphism> the bed is only 8"x8" but I trhink I could work with that
[13:12:04] <Polymorphism> and z just 3"
[13:12:13] <Polymorphism> only one of my enclosures wouldnt fit
[13:12:25] <Tom_itx> so if you put a 3" tool in you have 0 clearance
[13:12:45] <JT-Shop> lol
[13:12:55] <Tom_itx> hey JT-Shop
[13:12:59] <Polymorphism> is that the case?
[13:13:02] <djdelorie> all this talk about needing 12x12 and now you're going with 8x8 ?
[13:13:11] <JT-Shop> hey Tom_itx
[13:13:14] <Polymorphism> djdelorie, this optuion is different than the others
[13:13:18] <Tom_itx> get your trike back yet?
[13:13:24] <JT-Shop> the spyder sprung a leak last night lol
[13:13:32] <JT-Shop> fetched it Tuesday
[13:13:38] <Tom_itx> good or bad news?
[13:13:44] <JT-Shop> 1,162 miles in 18.5hrs
[13:14:00] <Tom_itx> and how many tickets?
[13:14:15] <JT-Shop> good news, I have the extended warranty with $50 deductible... maybe I get a new engine
[13:14:22] <JT-Shop> none
[13:14:29] <Tom_itx> that would be super
[13:14:40] <Tom_itx> you should find out what happened though
[13:15:02] <JT-Shop> yea, it started to leak oil last night
[13:15:27] <Tom_itx> have you run it since you parked it?
[13:15:32] <JT-Shop> the service dept is real good where I take the Spyder to
[13:15:34] <Polymorphism> the actual working height is 3" - tool length?
[13:15:45] <Polymorphism> that could be a major issue
[13:15:51] <Tom_itx> yes it could be
[13:16:23] <JT-Shop> nope, when I pulled off of the I-310 bridge into the cubby hole that is the last time I ran it
[13:16:52] <Tom_itx> wonder why it just now sprung a leak
[13:17:51] <JT-Shop> dunno, unless it was leaking from the start and just now filled up whatever place it was leaking into
[13:19:47] <_methods> Tom_itx: i had some chicken salad
[13:19:48] <_methods> hehe
[13:19:50] <Loetmichel2> Polymorphism: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqXauMOhWos <- my 6040 in some 1.5mm AlMg3
[13:20:09] <Tom_itx> _methods, funny.. so did i but with bread around it
[13:20:18] <_methods> mmmmmm
[13:20:34] <JT-Shop> I had a wish sandwich
[13:20:44] <_methods> squish fished patty on a bun
[13:20:51] <Loetmichel2> Polymorphism: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWTTP0RomA0 <- some 3mm stock aluminium sheet
[13:20:51] <gregcnc> tuna melt yo
[13:21:00] <Polymorphism> thats the type of thing I need to do Loetmichel2
[13:21:25] <Polymorphism> thats exactly what I want to do!
[13:21:31] <Polymorphism> except a little bit smaller scale
[13:21:34] <Polymorphism> 12"x12"
[13:22:03] <Polymorphism> the 6040 looks nice...
[13:22:43] <Loetmichel2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6-YwG9dv7A <- some stepped holes in the side of 8mm wide al blocks (not osha-approved ;)
[13:23:29] <Polymorphism> I'm sold!!!
[13:23:39] <Polymorphism> whats the Z travel
[13:23:52] <Loetmichel2> 80mm above the vacuum table
[13:24:08] <Loetmichel2> i think 100++ wothout it
[13:24:25] <Polymorphism> so 80mm - tool length?
[13:24:28] <Polymorphism> is the working height
[13:24:35] <Loetmichel2> yes
[13:24:54] <Loetmichel2> you can move the spindle up, tho
[13:25:18] <Loetmichel2> so its clear of the workpiece INCLUDING the tool
[13:25:27] <Polymorphism> ??
[13:25:28] <Loetmichel2> z travel is about 120mm iirc
[13:25:30] <Polymorphism> oh right
[13:25:35] <Polymorphism> I wonder if thats true for the nomad machine as well
[13:25:44] <Polymorphism> I would think 3" working height is 3" working height
[13:25:50] <Polymorphism> I didnt realize I needed to subtract tool length
[13:25:55] <Loetmichel2> its just that the gantry only has 80mm left if you mount a 25mm thick vacuum table
[13:26:04] <Polymorphism> ah
[13:26:09] <Polymorphism> which vacuum table are you using?
[13:26:14] <Loetmichel2> selfbuild
[13:26:23] <Loetmichel2> 20mm thick PVC sheet
[13:26:24] <Polymorphism> http://www.ebay.com/itm/3D-CNC-ROUTER-ENGRAVER-ENGRAVING-6040-DESKTOP-1-5KW-DRILLING-MILLING-MACHINE-USA-/131745451666
[13:26:26] <Polymorphism> is it this machine?
[13:26:29] <Loetmichel2> and 8mm thick PVC sheet
[13:26:37] <Loetmichel2> look here:
[13:26:53] <Loetmichel2> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14682&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[13:27:00] <Loetmichel2> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14685&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[13:27:03] <Loetmichel2> understand?
[13:27:19] <Loetmichel2> ... and a bunch of M4 nylon screws
[13:27:26] <Polymorphism> yes I see
[13:28:56] <Loetmichel2> its easy, cheap... only needs a shitload of machine time ;)
[13:29:13] <Polymorphism> did you machine those pieces
[13:29:15] <Polymorphism> with the same machine
[13:29:24] <Loetmichel2> which pieces?
[13:29:34] <Polymorphism> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14682&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[13:29:37] <Polymorphism> where did you get that piece
[13:29:52] <Loetmichel2> that was a 200m thick PVC sheet
[13:31:20] <Loetmichel2> glued in place with double sided tape. milled into that shape, then screwed to the rails beyond, then levelled, then the 8mm "top" sat on it, drilled the holes and and countersunk for the nylon screws, and then had the machine do the 3mm/0,8mm stepped drill grid
[13:31:34] <Loetmichel2> 20mm, not 200mm of course
[13:32:40] <Loetmichel2> the 8mm sheet will already hold when you apply the vaccum to the side holes (thats normal 10mm fish tank PVC tube btw)
[13:33:20] <Loetmichel2> so it basically does a "muenchhausen" and pulls itself out of the problems ;)
[13:33:39] <djdelorie> the ability of cnc machines to mill their own tables is wonderful :-)
[13:34:03] <Loetmichel2> only caveat is that milling away aboput 80% of that 20mm PVC sheet with an 1/8" mill bit takes quite a while ;)
[13:35:12] <Loetmichel2> djdelorie: i even to pieces up to 3 times the size the machine can mill...
[13:35:34] <Polymorphism> very cool
[13:36:15] <Loetmichel2> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16182&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- just made a "puzzle" like nook at the sides
[13:36:26] <djdelorie> I have a set of gcode programs for mine that are used to install a new bed - levelling, recessed screws, etc.
[13:37:57] <Loetmichel2> here i did it for some 4mm thick AL sheet for a Vesa 400 mount:
[13:38:17] <Loetmichel2> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15934&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[13:38:21] <Loetmichel2> see it?
[13:38:32] <Loetmichel2> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15931&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- better?
[13:38:34] <Loetmichel2> :-)
[13:38:54] <Loetmichel2> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15937&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- and mounted on the TV ;)
[13:42:10] <__rob> what do you put on a mill table when your going to leave the mill for a while ?
[13:42:20] <__rob> to keep any rush spots at bay
[13:42:22] <cradek> wd40 works fine
[13:42:23] <__rob> rust
[13:42:28] <__rob> drys out pretty quick tho
[13:42:50] <cradek> I think that's fine, and it stays protected
[13:42:55] <Loetmichel2> i use way oil for that
[13:43:01] <Loetmichel2> friom the lathe
[13:43:06] <enleth> __rob: depends on how long the while is
[13:43:27] <Loetmichel2> wd40 is 90% petroleum
[13:43:36] <Loetmichel2> and evaporates in lesst than a week
[13:43:49] <Loetmichel2> so if you are back inside a week its fine
[13:44:02] <Loetmichel2> if you stay away longer: better use some thick oil.
[13:47:29] <_methods> lps2
[13:47:33] <_methods> that stuff is awesome
[13:47:35] <_methods> but expensive
[13:48:21] <_methods> http://www.amazon.com/LPS-Labs-00216-Heavy-Duty-Lubricant/dp/B000SKZKC0
[13:50:11] <enleth> or maybe good old cosmoline?
[13:50:48] <__rob> wacked on a bit of way lube
[13:50:51] <__rob> should be good for a bit
[13:53:26] <Crom> crap over drawn to the hills
[13:55:30] <Polymorphism> wow
[13:55:34] <Polymorphism> thats a nice machine Loetmichel2 !!!
[13:55:35] <Polymorphism> and nice work
[13:56:00] <Polymorphism> I'm convinced
[13:56:09] <Polymorphism> you could cut modular pieces?
[13:56:16] <Polymorphism> and build an entire motorcycle frame?
[13:56:18] <_methods> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkvSfTMIB04&feature=youtu.be
[13:56:29] <_methods> science
[13:56:30] <_methods> lol
[13:57:12] <Loetmichel2> Polymorphism: i would not trust a motorcycle frame I made
[13:57:13] <_methods> sure go ahead and do that in the house
[13:57:18] <Loetmichel2> other than that: why not?
[13:57:30] <Polymorphism> this machine made these parts?
[13:58:30] <Polymorphism> that mount is awesome
[13:58:32] <Polymorphism> I'm sold
[13:58:38] <Polymorphism> I have a tv I wanted a mount for
[13:58:47] <Polymorphism> even one extra use and I'm certain I need a cnc
[13:58:53] <Polymorphism> plus I could make a new neck for my guitar?
[13:58:55] <Polymorphism> or not enough work area
[13:59:06] <Polymorphism> and cut my own pcb with this machine?
[13:59:10] <Polymorphism> my primary use is this
[13:59:12] <Polymorphism> http://enclosuresandcasesinc.com/images/split_04.jpg
[13:59:13] <Polymorphism> take this enclosure
[13:59:17] <Polymorphism> and make it a professional product
[13:59:32] <Loetmichel2> hihi
[13:59:38] <Loetmichel2> you mean like these?
[13:59:40] <Polymorphism> https://www.amphenolcanada.com/ProductSearch/drawings/AC/MUSBD111XX.pdf
[13:59:43] <Polymorphism> I need cuts like these Loetmichel2
[13:59:49] <Polymorphism> in that type of enclosure
[13:59:49] <Loetmichel2> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14160&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[14:00:02] <Polymorphism> yes!!!!!!!!!!
[14:00:02] <Loetmichel2> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14247
[14:00:03] <Polymorphism> at last
[14:00:09] <Polymorphism> yes!!!
[14:00:09] <os1r1s2> pcw_home I'm getting an error ./pm25test.hal:25: Pin 'hm2_5i25.0.7i76.0.0.output-00' does not exist
[14:00:14] <Polymorphism> I'm trying to start a business
[14:00:20] <Loetmichel2> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14250&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[14:00:25] <os1r1s2> Is there anything special to do to reference sserial ports?
[14:00:26] <Polymorphism> and I want to produce my enclosures mostly in house
[14:00:40] <Polymorphism> yes!!!
[14:00:44] <Polymorphism> and also cuts for lcd display, etc
[14:01:03] <Loetmichel2> thats what i do for a living ;)
[14:01:03] <Polymorphism> http://g03.a.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1yOXsIpXXXXXhXpXXq6xXFXXXT/Flanged-Split-body-font-b-Extruded-b-font-font-b-Aluminum-b-font-Box-Enclosure-font.jpg
[14:01:28] <Polymorphism> did you engrave the labels?
[14:01:30] <Polymorphism> with the machine
[14:01:37] <Polymorphism> on that acrylic plate
[14:02:11] <Loetmichel2> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16050&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- made this lately for a customer
[14:02:29] <Polymorphism> yes!
[14:02:40] <Polymorphism> I wantg to do one-off and small batch professional electronic devices
[14:02:49] <Polymorphism> and make the enclosures in house
[14:02:56] <Polymorphism> either by machining those extruded aluminum china enclosures
[14:02:59] <Polymorphism> with the cutouts I need
[14:03:02] <Polymorphism> and engraving labels
[14:03:03] <Loetmichel2> the labels are 2mm acrylic sheet, spray painted blue from the back side and then engraved from behind
[14:03:11] <Polymorphism> or, by making the entire enclosure from scratch
[14:03:32] <Polymorphism> http://www.cbttechnology.com/images/products/enclosures/GS3517-extruded-auminum-enclosure-base.jpg
[14:03:42] <Polymorphism> I was thinking engraving this deep enough would go below the dye in the anodizing
[14:03:48] <Polymorphism> and become a silver text
[14:03:53] <Loetmichel2> yes, it does
[14:04:03] <Polymorphism> okm what do I need???
[14:04:08] <Polymorphism> my budget is 4000 usd
[14:04:19] <Loetmichel2> fo that isdn router i needed some "see thru" labels tho
[14:04:35] <Polymorphism> for the leds?
[14:04:37] <Loetmichel2> so i used the "back engraving acrylics" route
[14:04:43] <Loetmichel2> exactly
[14:04:47] <Polymorphism> http://enclosuresandcasesinc.com/images/split_04.jpg
[14:04:53] <Polymorphism> do you need a vacuum plate for those end panels?
[14:04:57] <Polymorphism> or can they be fixtured in another way
[14:05:39] <Loetmichel2> ah, for you PCB question: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16167&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[14:06:17] <Loetmichel2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMXxjT4nNxg
[14:06:32] <Loetmichel2> vacuum plate would be the easiest
[14:06:57] <Loetmichel2> but a MDF or PVC sacrificial plate and double sided tape would do as well
[14:07:42] <Polymorphism> thats what I was envisioning
[14:07:54] <Polymorphism> cutting slightly deeper than the part depth into a disposable material below
[14:08:14] <Polymorphism> wow
[14:08:16] <Polymorphism> pcb milling!
[14:08:18] <Polymorphism> yes I need to do this
[14:08:30] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel2: That router casing, was it to 'harden' a consumer-type product or was it to develop your own router?
[14:08:48] <Loetmichel2> FinboySlick: hardened consumer product ;)
[14:09:04] <Loetmichel2> hardened as in "tempest-attack-proof"
[14:09:27] <Polymorphism> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14160&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[14:09:27] <Loetmichel2> No more EM hints from this device
[14:09:28] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel2: What's the typical cost of a project like that?
[14:09:33] <Polymorphism> did you make those from scratcH?
[14:09:45] <Loetmichel2> Polymorphism: sure
[14:09:49] <Polymorphism> with the 6040?
[14:09:52] <Loetmichel2> lemme think
[14:09:54] <Polymorphism> what was the material you used to start with
[14:10:15] <FinboySlick> I imagine companies that worry about EMI snooping have pretty deep pockets.
[14:10:51] <Polymorphism> is that steel?
[14:11:25] <Loetmichel2> for 20 of these about 100€ in 1,5mm sheet aluminium, two or three 2mm mill bits broken for 5€ a pop, and about 2 days on the mill
[14:11:29] <Loetmichel2> aluminium
[14:11:48] <Loetmichel2> 1,5mm thick AlMg3 to be precise
[14:12:21] <Loetmichel2> FinboySlick: i mostly work for .mil and .gov
[14:13:00] <Loetmichel2> we have VERY few cuistomers who are not one of those ;)
[14:13:08] <Polymorphism> is the machine upgraded?
[14:13:39] <Loetmichel2> a bit
[14:13:51] <Loetmichel2> had to change the motor couplers after a year
[14:13:54] <Loetmichel2> boken
[14:13:58] <Loetmichel2> broke off
[14:14:00] <Loetmichel2> all three
[14:14:20] <Loetmichel2> and had the gantty lifted up 15mm
[14:14:34] <Loetmichel2> to that the 4th axis fits under it
[14:14:58] <Polymorphism> did yhou purcahse on ebay?
[14:15:03] <Loetmichel2> ah, and have mounted limit7reference switches
[14:15:07] <Loetmichel2> yes, i did
[14:15:07] <Polymorphism> and do you recommend this machine?
[14:15:16] <Polymorphism> if you were purchasing a new one today
[14:15:26] <Loetmichel2> yes, for light work its the best bang for the buck you will get
[14:15:39] <Loetmichel2> wouldnt recommend it for steel work tho
[14:15:48] <Polymorphism> ok
[14:15:52] <Loetmichel2> it IS possible but the machine doesent like it at all
[14:15:53] <Polymorphism> I'm assuming that would cost a lot more
[14:16:01] <Polymorphism> I'm ok with just 4mm aluminum
[14:16:13] <Polymorphism> is the 3040 the same machine with just a smaller work area?
[14:16:39] <Loetmichel2> sadly: not
[14:17:09] <Loetmichel2> it has no supported rails and often no ballscrews (just acme instead)
[14:17:21] <Loetmichel2> also the "spindle" you get with the 3040 is trash
[14:17:28] <Polymorphism> wow
[14:17:36] <Polymorphism> so the 6040 is THE machine to go with for these china machines
[14:17:45] <Polymorphism> on a budget of 4000 or less, with less being spent the better
[14:18:06] <Loetmichel2> only buy these machines with supported rails at least on y, with ballscrews and the 800W watercooled 3p AC spindle
[14:18:16] <Loetmichel2> yes
[14:18:30] <Polymorphism> not the air cooled 800w?
[14:18:54] <Loetmichel2> never seen them with the air cooled AC spindle
[14:19:23] <Not-Renny> Heh. Is it possible to bootstrap a CNC machine using a tiny lathe and a 3d printer? :P
[14:19:36] <Not-Renny> CNC mill*
[14:19:36] <Loetmichel2> they usually come wiehter with a DC motor with a loooong ER44 colled pressed on ("400W air cooled spindle") or with the 800W water cooled one
[14:19:43] <Loetmichel2> the latter is a real spindle
[14:19:50] <witnit> I have no use for this, but I really want it
[14:19:52] <witnit> https://fortwayne.craigslist.org/tls/5488734317.html
[14:20:35] <malcom2073> Not-Renny: There are a couple thingiverse 3d printed cnc machines
[14:20:56] <malcom2073> you could, in theory, make one out of plastic, make wood parts, make one out of wood, make metal parts, make one out of metal, make better metal parts, repeat
[14:21:04] <Polymorphism> Loetmichel2, what do you think of this unit http://www.omiocnc.com/x4-800-4a/
[14:22:13] <Not-Renny> This is how I will build my factory, malcom2073 :P
[14:22:22] <malcom2073> :)
[14:22:48] <Not-Renny> I will need a machine to manufacture steel and ceramic bearings.
[14:23:07] <Polymorphism> these machines look way nicer than the nomad
[14:23:14] <Loetmichel2> Polymorphism: no supported rails in y
[14:23:18] <Not-Renny> Diamond powder is cheap enough, but the diamond impregnated bits seem ungodly expensive.
[14:23:25] <Loetmichel2> and frankly it would be to small for my taste
[14:24:25] <Polymorphism> I see
[14:25:31] <Loetmichel2> when you work with sheet metal a lot you will notice how big the parts are before you do the "origami"...
[14:25:53] <Loetmichel2> you will run into the limits opf your machine sooner or later
[14:26:01] <Loetmichel2> with the small one more sooner ;)
[14:26:54] <Loetmichel2> Polymorphism: for this 19" 2u enclosure i had to split the bottom and top lid... and the sides had to be milled diagonally to fit onto the machine...
[14:27:07] <Loetmichel2> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16182&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[14:27:23] <Loetmichel2> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16179&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[14:27:34] <Polymorphism> ah, I see
[14:27:39] <Polymorphism> I will go with the larger machine
[14:27:49] <Polymorphism> I'm not sure what you mean by supported y though
[14:28:14] <Polymorphism> how did you bend that metal
[14:28:55] <Loetmichel2> http://www.amazon.com/SBR12-1000mm-Supported-Linear-SBR12UU-BlockbEARING/dp/B00EBUXBKG <- these are supported rails
[14:29:21] <Polymorphism> ok
[14:29:27] <Loetmichel2> the smaller machines use simple 16mm or 20mm cylindrical bars only supported at the ends
[14:29:37] <Loetmichel2> so they bend on the long run
[14:30:02] <Polymorphism> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Router-3Axis-CNC-6040-2-2KW-Spindle-With-Ballscrew-Router-Machine-US-Stock-/201544611555
[14:30:07] <Polymorphism> this one is a junk imitation right
[14:31:15] <Sync> no, that's the "real deal"
[14:31:19] <Polymorphism> really?
[14:31:25] <Polymorphism> it looks too cheap
[14:31:28] <Loetmichel2> Polymorphism: i mill a slot a the bends into half the material thinckness and bend it by hand
[14:31:36] <Sync> they are shitty mills, but they are cheap
[14:31:52] <Loetmichel2> Polymorphism: its the real thing. seems to be a bit cheap tho
[14:32:04] <Polymorphism> I love this price
[14:32:05] <Polymorphism> !!!
[14:32:14] <Loetmichel2> usually these sets go away for a bit short of $2k
[14:32:19] <Polymorphism> thats what I thought
[14:32:26] <Polymorphism> so paying 1/4 of that sounds great
[14:32:39] <Polymorphism> oh
[14:32:41] <Polymorphism> its current bid!!!!
[14:33:08] <Loetmichel2> yeah
[14:35:18] <Polymorphism> the 2.2k spindle?
[14:35:20] <Polymorphism> some say 1.5k
[14:36:03] <Polymorphism> http://www.ebay.com/itm/PRO-1-5KW-3-AXIS-CNC-ROUTER-ENGRAVER-ENGRAVING-MACHINE-DRILLING-MILLING-6040-USA-/331787662821
[14:36:04] <Polymorphism> like this
[14:38:12] <Loetmichel2> looks ok to me
[14:38:24] <Polymorphism> http://www.ebay.com/itm/3D-CNC-ROUTER-ENGRAVER-ENGRAVING-6040-DESKTOP-4AXIS-DRILLING-MILLING-MACHINE-US-/221354177332?hash=item3389bcb334:g:yoIAAOSwm8VUyYZi
[14:38:30] <Polymorphism> this one has the black box instead of white, which did you get?
[14:38:40] <Polymorphism> and is the 4th axis any good?
[14:38:41] <Loetmichel2> the spindle is aviable in 800W, 1.5kw and 2.2kw
[14:38:52] <Polymorphism> do you suggest the 2.2k?
[14:38:55] <Loetmichel2> the 2.2 kw is IMHO a bit fat for that light frame
[14:39:02] <Loetmichel2> the other two are ok
[14:39:16] <Loetmichel2> i never used more than about 400W of mine ;)
[14:39:39] <Polymorphism> hmm
[14:39:42] <Polymorphism> a lot of choices to make
[14:39:57] <Loetmichel2> you cant use that much torque on small mill bits anyway... the frame will distort if you do
[14:40:27] <Loetmichel2> so you usuall ymake light passes (0.2mm deep) and to a lot of them
[14:40:41] <Polymorphism> oh
[14:41:06] <Loetmichel2> to keep the the "sprigyness" of the gantry out of your part measurements ;)
[14:44:08] <Loetmichel2> Polymorphism: there you see me working thru an 8mm thick sheet of aluminium... remote ;)
[14:44:13] <Loetmichel2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u_ChO1AKYY
[14:46:03] <Polymorphism> this is what I need
[14:46:38] <Loetmichel2> you do understand what i mean with "light passes and more of them"?
[14:46:46] <Polymorphism> yes
[14:47:01] <Polymorphism> I wont even be working wtih alum this think
[14:47:03] <Polymorphism> thick
[14:52:31] <Polymorphism> this is going to be great
[14:53:10] <Polymorphism> http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-MACH3-CNC-8060-3-axis-1500W-ROUTER-ENGRAVING-Machine-110-220VAC-/291708908156?hash=item43eb34b27c:g:fvgAAOSwwpdW5sYz
[14:53:14] <Polymorphism> I wonder if the larger model is worth the cost
[14:53:40] <Polymorphism> looks like a lot more money
[14:57:21] <Loetmichel2> Polymorphism: i doubt it
[14:57:50] <Loetmichel2> 600mm in the gantry without a supported rail is prone to be even weaker than the 400 on the 6040
[14:59:02] <Loetmichel2> notice that i have my 6040 mounted on the table... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14139 <- and not with few screws...
[14:59:10] <Polymorphism> http://www.ebay.com/itm/4axis-6040-CNC-router-DRILLING-MILLING-ENGRAVER-mill-MACHINE-800W-USB-adapter-/131760985341?hash=item1ead9114fd:g:3GwAAOSwL7VWi292
[14:59:15] <Loetmichel2> that move made it a LOT stiffer...
[14:59:16] <Polymorphism> am I seeing this wrong
[14:59:28] <Polymorphism> or are they advertising this as coming with usb adapter, but its actually a usb charger
[14:59:33] <Polymorphism> looks deceptive
[14:59:47] <Polymorphism> I see
[15:00:59] <Loetmichel2> yeah, but at least they say below that it is a charger and that the PC must have a real LPT port
[15:01:20] <Polymorphism> which control box do you have?
[15:01:31] <Loetmichel2> but they are wrong with the notebooks
[15:01:37] <Polymorphism> above though it says "free usb adapter" when its not a usb adapter
[15:01:40] <Loetmichel2> i used quite a few, most work
[15:01:55] <Loetmichel2> only some have some problems with powersaving interrupts
[15:02:15] <Loetmichel2> i have a second hand PC on it
[15:02:40] <Loetmichel2> with an athlon64x2 @ 3ghz
[15:02:44] <Loetmichel2> not really fast
[15:03:04] <Loetmichel2> but fast enough to do LinuxCNC AND the encoding for the webcam ;)
[15:03:48] <Polymorphism> is linuxcnc an alternative to mach 3?
[15:04:05] <Loetmichel2> imho its not only an alternative, its way better
[15:04:15] <Loetmichel2> its also free and more modular than mach3
[15:04:20] <Polymorphism> so I don't need to budget 150 for software
[15:04:30] <Loetmichel2> no
[15:04:36] <alibama> where does one find post processor files - my buddy has a haas om2a - i’m looking to test it with linuxcnc
[15:04:56] <Crom> Tormach dropped Mach3 and went to Pathpilot a LinuxCNC based controller
[15:05:18] <Polymorphism> I like the tormach 440 but out of budget
[15:06:29] <Polymorphism> this is going to be great
[15:06:37] <Polymorphism> 6 months though before I cut my first part? that sounds like a bit much
[15:06:45] <Loetmichel2> Polymorphism: the tormach 440 is made for hard steel work
[15:07:05] <Loetmichel2> its a whole different machine than a gantry made of aluminium
[15:07:05] <Polymorphism> I see
[15:07:10] <Polymorphism> like a rifle barrel
[15:07:15] <Polymorphism> ?
[15:07:19] <Loetmichel2> for example
[15:07:34] <Loetmichel2> or complex cast iron parts and stuff
[15:07:38] <Polymorphism> I don't need to do anything like that
[15:07:49] <Loetmichel2> its meant to do hard work with laaarge mill bits
[15:07:59] <Loetmichel2> not meant to do wide area with light cuts
[15:08:08] <Polymorphism> the most I might want to do is thin steel
[15:08:22] <Polymorphism> http://c1.zzounds.com/media/fit,2018by3200/quality,85/Saffire6USB_RightNew-f95a2946d059b8f013046bc860253583.jpg
[15:08:24] <Polymorphism> an enclosure like this
[15:08:25] <Loetmichel2> thats what the CHinese gantry mills are made for
[15:08:43] <Loetmichel2> you can do steel
[15:08:49] <Loetmichel2> but you have to cut very lightly
[15:09:20] <Loetmichel2> i usually do less than 0.1mm per cut in steel
[15:09:55] <Polymorphism> no problem
[15:10:03] <Polymorphism> what about parallel vs usb?
[15:12:09] <Loetmichel2> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15093&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- these are made of zinc clad steel because i wanted to solder the corners shut
[15:12:35] <Loetmichel2> Polymorphism: LinuxCNC uses the LPT port to do kind of a "bit bang" to the stepper drivers
[15:12:38] <Polymorphism> thats fantastic....
[15:12:43] <Polymorphism> and you score and bend you said??
[15:12:57] <Polymorphism> so linuxcnc is parallel only?
[15:13:17] <Loetmichel2> and an usb -> lpüt converter has a round trip time of about 1 second. not that good for realtime bitbanging... ;)
[15:13:25] <Polymorphism> ok
[15:13:31] <Loetmichel2> no, you can use some USB based controllers, too
[15:13:32] <Polymorphism> I wont look for a usb mill then
[15:13:44] <Loetmichel2> and some DSP cards
[15:13:51] <Loetmichel2> made for CNC
[15:14:14] <Loetmichel2> i think one of the developers of said cards is here in the channel
[15:14:34] <_methods> http://www.friendlyarm.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=69&product_id=109
[15:14:38] <Loetmichel2> but for a CNC 6040 a PCI LPT card will do nicely
[15:14:38] <_methods> $11 quad core lol
[15:14:39] <enleth> Polymorphism: it's not "parallel only", but rather USB is unsuitable for this
[15:14:49] <cradek> linuxcnc has lots of interfacing options - the parallel port is only one
[15:15:00] <enleth> Polymorphism: there are other options besides parallel and USB, but they're expensive
[15:15:04] <cradek> also ethernet cards, pci cards, pci express cards
[15:15:23] <cradek> some are way under $100
[15:19:32] <Polymorphism> ok I'll stick with LPT
[15:20:18] <Polymorphism> wow that board looks great
[15:20:29] <Polymorphism> you just cost me $11
[15:21:02] <_methods> the $30 one is pretty cool too
[15:21:08] <_methods> a9 1gb ram
[15:21:13] <_methods> the m2
[15:22:14] <Polymorphism> also interesting
[15:24:41] <Polymorphism> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15084&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[15:24:44] <Polymorphism> did the machine cause this
[15:26:34] <Polymorphism> I'm going to build a quadcopter with the machine
[15:27:08] <Loetmichel2> Polymorphism: no
[15:27:44] <Loetmichel2> that was me being a bit less carfiul with a cutter knife
[15:27:46] <alibama> so i’m trying to use program a haas om2a 4 axis mill with linuxcnc - what files do I need to download to do this? I was told it’s called a post processor file?
[15:29:11] <Loetmichel2> Polymorphism: you mean something like this? -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12997&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[15:29:53] <Loetmichel2> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8241 <- or this
[15:29:57] <Polymorphism> yes!!!
[15:30:10] <Polymorphism> now I'm sure I need the machine
[15:30:15] <Deejay> :)
[15:30:22] <Loetmichel2> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=5171 <- or this
[15:30:25] <gregcnc> alibama you installed linuxcnc on a haas om2?
[15:30:32] <Loetmichel2> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=5177
[15:30:35] <Loetmichel2> :-)
[15:30:38] <Polymorphism> is that aluminum channel that you milled Loetmichel2 ?
[15:30:42] <Polymorphism> to reduce weight
[15:31:06] <alibama> gregcnc: that’s what I would like to do - my buddy at the engineering school has one and I’m interested in testing it with linuxcnc
[15:31:08] <Loetmichel2> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=7495&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[15:31:11] <Loetmichel2> :-)
[15:31:20] <gregcnc> why
[15:31:20] <Polymorphism> !
[15:31:23] <Loetmichel2> thats square aluminium tube, yes
[15:31:30] <Simonious> alibama: take good notes if you do! I've got a HAAS here and I find the idea interesting for sure
[15:31:41] <gregcnc> what happend to the original control?
[15:31:57] <alibama> gregcnc: not sure
[15:32:19] <Polymorphism> it took 4 operations??
[15:32:28] <Polymorphism> or could you attach that to the 4th axis
[15:32:29] <Simonious> gregcnc: would it be so wrong to remove that monolith and run it with EMC2 instead?
[15:32:34] <Loetmichel2> Polymorphism: actually 8 operations
[15:32:34] <Polymorphism> some of these machines have 4 axis for a similar price
[15:32:39] <Loetmichel2> my home CNC is to small
[15:32:41] <alibama> actually for all I know it’s still working
[15:32:59] <gregcnc> on a relatively new 60k+ usd machine?
[15:33:06] <gregcnc> why
[15:33:24] <Loetmichel2> Polymorphism: had to rotate it 8 times
[15:33:25] <Loetmichel2> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11744
[15:33:27] <Loetmichel2> each one
[15:33:36] <alibama> I’m just interested in generating g-code for it and thought I needed those files to control it…
[15:33:59] <gregcnc> what are you doing exactly?
[15:34:06] <Polymorphism> I shoould budget extra for tools and clamps and other things, how much am I looking at for required accessories
[15:34:14] <gregcnc> using CAM to generate gcode?
[15:35:00] <alibama> gregcnc: yes - let me point out that i don’t know what the heck i’m talking about :)
[15:35:12] <gregcnc> so what are you trying to do
[15:35:39] <alibama> ultimately - just mill some small aluminum parts, and i need to generate g-code from my dxf
[15:36:06] <CaptHindsight> so what have we decided on? Less time was spent planning the invasion of Normandy.
[15:36:17] <gregcnc> so using some cam you need a proper post to generate usable code for that machine
[15:36:18] <Loetmichel2> Polymorphism: btw: that last copter got a few "ufo" calls to the local police. i think it wasnt the brightest idea to test it at night ;-) http://www.cyrom.org/MC/nachtflugtest_.avi
[15:36:38] <gregcnc> that all depends on the CAM software
[15:38:23] <Polymorphism> xD
[15:39:23] <Polymorphism> and this machine is the last thing I ever need to buy
[15:39:28] <Polymorphism> then I can make everything from now on
[15:39:49] <Polymorphism> how do I secure things to the table? where do I begin
[15:39:53] <gregcnc> Capt the winner is 3d printing in reverse to see just how long it can take to make parts only a few mm thick
[15:40:00] <Polymorphism> I should spend some time learning now whil I wait for shipping
[15:43:06] <Polymorphism> looks like it was 1700 usd in august 2015
[15:43:09] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: starting with 6" plate
[15:43:10] <Polymorphism> now available for 1200 usd?
[15:43:49] <_methods> is that like a reverse mortgage
[15:43:54] <_methods> reverse 3d printing
[15:44:05] <gregcnc> 3D unprinting
[15:44:14] <_methods> hehe
[15:44:18] <_methods> aka machining
[15:44:19] <CaptHindsight> _methods: yes, but tooless
[15:45:26] <CaptHindsight> like a pipe unbender
[15:45:30] <XXCoder> gregcnc: 3d unprinters exist
[15:45:34] <_methods> i want to get a reverse mortgage on someone elses house
[15:45:38] <XXCoder> few of em by now
[15:46:18] <XXCoder> it takes shredded remains of 3d printed object and makes strand out of em
[15:46:30] <_methods> shredded lettuce
[15:47:09] <CaptHindsight> undrill bits
[15:47:23] <gregcnc> are those lefthanded?
[15:47:29] <_methods> hehe
[15:47:40] <XXCoder> lol
[15:47:41] <_methods> double lead left handed undrill bit
[15:47:45] <CaptHindsight> not sure but unsaw blades are
[15:47:57] <Loetmichel2> Polymorphism: for starters: buy a thick sheet of particle board or MDF
[15:47:59] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: weld
[15:48:01] <gregcnc> down cut left handed undrill
[15:48:06] <Loetmichel2> and some double sided carpet tape
[15:48:14] <Loetmichel2> and glue your parts to the machine
[15:48:25] <Loetmichel2> its the easiest to get level
[15:48:40] <CaptHindsight> I though double sided carpet tape was for double sided carpets
[15:48:49] <Loetmichel2> and buy at least a 16mm or bigger if you get them wood router bit with a 6mm shaft
[15:49:27] <Loetmichel2> so you can level the particle board/MDF on your machine in a time that will not see your retirement ;)
[15:49:42] <_methods> http://uploads.neatorama.com/images/posts/217/89/89217/1458828354-0.jpg
[15:49:46] <DaViruz> i've never seen a single sided carpet
[15:49:53] <DaViruz> that would be like a mobius carbet
[15:49:59] <Polymorphism> Loetmichel2, which controller do you use
[15:50:05] <XXCoder> DaViruz: easy to make one
[15:50:08] <Loetmichel2> the one that came with the machine
[15:50:16] <Polymorphism> is it the white, blue, or black box?
[15:50:16] <DaViruz> not very practical
[15:50:45] <Loetmichel2> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14148&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[15:50:47] <XXCoder> yeah. though very long belts at factories to convey stuff usually is a mobius strips
[15:50:52] <Loetmichel2> does that answer your question=?
[15:50:52] <XXCoder> both sides = twice life
[15:50:53] <CaptHindsight> so 6040 or 4060 router, which one is better?
[15:51:01] <XXCoder> or rather one side
[15:52:22] <Polymorphism> Loetmichel2, yes, ty
[15:53:27] <Polymorphism> did you make the cart?
[15:53:48] <Loetmichel2> it was an old computer cart i just fitted with a bigger top
[15:54:26] <Loetmichel2> and some struts because it "nicked" forward when the weight of the particle board top and the machine was on it ;)
[15:56:53] <CaptHindsight> $9 for a cobalt 3/16" 2 flute double end mill
[15:58:34] <Polymorphism> http://www.ebay.com/itm/3D-CNC-ROUTER-ENGRAVER-ENGRAVING-6040-DESKTOP-4AXIS-DRILLING-MILLING-MACHINE-US-/221354177332 ---- http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-four-4-axis-6040-1500W-cnc-router-engraver-engraving-milling-machine-desktop-/221763760469 ---- http://www.ebay.com/itm/3D-CNC-ROUTER-ENGRAVER-ENGRAVING-6040-DESKTOP-1-5KW-DRILLING-MILLING-MACHINE-USA-/131745451666
[15:58:44] <Polymorphism> I guess I've narrowed it down to these 3 options
[15:59:37] <Polymorphism> is that usb one worth it?
[15:59:41] <Polymorphism> and how do the other two compare
[15:59:48] <Polymorphism> it looks like just a different control box
[16:00:16] <Polymorphism> ah also 800w vs 1.5kw spincle
[16:00:40] <CaptHindsight> https://imagebin.ca/v/2apzmk7rpwvC
[16:01:31] <Polymorphism> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16191
[16:01:34] <Polymorphism> and is this going to happen to me!?
[16:02:15] <CaptHindsight> https://imagebin.ca/v/2TYvESEACWSs
[16:02:18] <Sync> it could
[16:05:05] <CaptHindsight> could be worse, look what happened to this guy http://roark.tv/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Frankenstein_research_002.jpg
[16:06:27] <gregcnc> how many years of machining does that to you?
[16:07:36] <malcom2073> gregcnc: Couple of milliseconds in the wrong place :)
[16:09:31] <gregcnc> reminds me of that guy wrapped up in the lathe
[16:11:50] <Polymorphism> Loetmichel2, can you linkl those enclopsures again please
[16:13:36] <CaptHindsight> watching Young Frankenstein clips now
[16:14:19] <Loetmichel2> Polymorphism: this will only happen if you are not careful with the deburr tool ;)
[16:15:02] <Loetmichel2> which one?
[16:15:30] <Loetmichel2> which enclosure?
[16:15:43] <Loetmichel2> dont you have a scrollback in your IRC client?
[16:16:04] <Loetmichel2> gregcnc: what? the small cut in the palm?
[16:16:10] <Loetmichel2> its not even 2" wide...
[16:16:17] <Loetmichel2> only 8 stitches
[16:16:40] <CaptHindsight> https://youtu.be/qzetgnZtcHs?t=34s Tom Balding Frightful Machine Accident - Cuts Finger almost off!
[16:16:45] <gregcnc> no, malcolm2073 comment
[16:18:06] <gregcnc> is there not a better way to deburr you parts?
[16:18:09] <CaptHindsight> https://youtu.be/qOSdSKyxhhI?t=1m18s it's all fun a games until...
[16:18:31] <gregcnc> better = safer
[16:20:32] <Loetmichel2> gregcnc: i could for examle not pull the deburr tool towards me and work away from me instead
[16:20:49] <malcom2073> Lol nice CaptHindsight
[16:20:52] <Loetmichel2> i slipped from an edge with the tool and hit my hand at full force
[16:20:53] <malcom2073> I love those videos, the acting is amazing
[16:21:27] <Loetmichel2> lucky that the tip of the deburr tool is dull, so it only severed the skin an the fat, the muscle underneath it was unharmed
[16:21:43] <Polymorphism> Loetmichel2, I can't scroll back that far for some reason
[16:23:02] <Polymorphism> wow
[16:23:07] <Polymorphism> that video is the argument for cnc
[16:23:09] <Polymorphism> I'm sold
[16:23:20] <gregcnc> what
[16:23:42] <Polymorphism> hes machining something by hand, right?
[16:23:47] <malcom2073> Looks CNC
[16:23:47] <gregcnc> so
[16:23:56] <Polymorphism> so theres the problem
[16:24:00] <Polymorphism> I will lose a finger if I do that
[16:24:02] <Polymorphism> guaranteed
[16:24:07] <gregcnc> assuming CNC won't kill you is a problem
[16:24:34] <malcom2073> CNC is *more* dangerous than manual milling I'd say, since the machine can move itself
[16:24:51] <Polymorphism> well from what I understand thought here wouldnt be any reason to put fingers anywhere near the machine
[16:24:53] <Polymorphism> once its running
[16:25:05] <Polymorphism> -t
[16:25:05] <malcom2073> That has nothing to do with CNC
[16:25:11] <malcom2073> You put your fingers in the same places at the same times for CNC vs manual milling
[16:25:15] <Loetmichel2> my old teacher said: "even the prettiest machine is a soulless monster that only waits for a moment of unawareness to kill you!"
[16:25:29] <malcom2073> Which btw, is *NOWHERE NEAR* anything moving
[16:26:19] <Polymorphism> I will follow safe practices
[16:26:38] <CaptHindsight> let someone else do it
[16:26:54] <Loetmichel2> Polymorphism: BTW: THAT ws the CNC mill: (or rather me neglecting any safety procedures and changing the workpiece wihle spindle is still running with a 3mm mill bit in the collet) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=2958&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[16:27:57] <Loetmichel2> right thru the thumb nail and out the other side ;)
[16:28:10] <gregcnc> yay snow!
[16:28:56] <Polymorphism> ouch
[16:29:07] <gregcnc> sheeeet
[16:29:20] <Polymorphism> CaptHindsight, I'm buying the 6040
[16:29:24] <Polymorphism> probably this weekend
[16:29:31] <Polymorphism> just need to do a little bit more research
[16:29:36] <djdelorie> after two more days of waffling about it :-)
[16:30:10] <CaptHindsight> but a 4060 is for portrait mode
[16:30:21] <malcom2073> Heh
[16:30:27] <Polymorphism> what is the rough workflow?
[16:30:35] <Polymorphism> I can use librecad export as dxf?
[16:30:41] <Polymorphism> and then I need to convert to gcode or something?
[16:30:46] <Polymorphism> and how do I align the workpiece
[16:30:51] <Polymorphism> I see roughly how to fixture it
[16:31:02] <malcom2073> When you convert from DXF to gcode, you will set where your alignment corner is
[16:31:20] <malcom2073> Most utilities will let you choose a corner for your origin
[16:31:52] <malcom2073> But yes, roughly, generate DXF, convert to gcode, simulate (Could skip if you're brave), then run on machine
[16:32:52] <gregcnc> the rinse improve repeat until you have millions
[16:33:19] <CaptHindsight> 4060 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF2TCEXTt1w vs 6040 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awah4PXwAAo
[16:33:20] <Polymorphism> I supooise the only part that I'mn not clear at all about is
[16:33:28] <Polymorphism> how I align the aluminum plate for example
[16:33:29] <Polymorphism> int he machine
[16:33:38] <Polymorphism> so its not rotated at all and so its in the right spot
[16:33:41] <Polymorphism> to actually be cut
[16:33:57] <malcom2073> When you generate the gcode you'l set which corner to be 0, then when you zero the machine, you make sure it's rotated properly
[16:34:02] <malcom2073> And not in the wrong corner
[16:34:27] <Polymorphism> ok
[16:35:07] <djdelorie> you can use an edge finder along an edge to see if it's parallel
[16:35:27] <djdelorie> or have the mill make it's own edge to set the part against :-)
[16:35:30] <malcom2073> A dial indicator that clamps onto your spindle can also help with ensuring the piece if positioned straight
[16:35:58] <Sync> oh haha in his second video he has huge springs clamped to the z axis CaptHindsight
[16:37:23] <Polymorphism> this is going to be amazing!!!!
[16:37:39] <Polymorphism> so the nomad guy was trying to tell me how it auto measures tool length
[16:37:43] <Polymorphism> and what a great feature that is
[16:37:47] <Polymorphism> is that really hard to do?
[16:38:01] <djdelorie> it's not hard but it's annoying
[16:38:30] <Polymorphism> I could probably add some auto measuring device later I would think
[16:38:37] <Polymorphism> if I really needed that
[16:41:54] <Loetmichel2> Polymorphism: i made my vacuum table with 1/8" holes so i can use broken mill bit shafts to aling the tools
[16:42:06] <Loetmichel2> s/tools/workpieces
[16:43:27] <Loetmichel2> simply oush the saft into two holes in the same row or column, move your worpiece edge against that and press down (if you are using double siderd tape, if using vacuum: simply swithc on the vacuum)
[16:44:00] <Loetmichel2> ... remove the alignment pins, touch the corners and z, start milling
[16:44:08] <Loetmichel2> push, shaft
[16:44:20] <Loetmichel2> <- has thick fingers sometimes ,)
[16:45:44] <malcom2073> Alignment pins are a good idea, and you can use the mill to drill the holes in your baseplate to ensure they're perfectly aligned with the motion axis
[16:46:04] <Polymorphism> ah I sdee, that sounds like a clean way to do it
[16:48:01] <Polymorphism> just one part I d ont qwuite get
[16:48:06] <Polymorphism> touch the corners and z?
[16:49:10] <malcom2073> To set zero on your machine
[16:49:28] <malcom2073> To tell it where the corner of the material is, and where it is height-wise
[16:55:26] <Loetmichel2> yeah, what malcom2073 said
[17:01:02] <Polymorphism> and if I drilled the alignment holes in a base material and then used pegs to align the work piece, then I would know where the corners are
[17:01:09] <Polymorphism> wait, I wouldnt
[17:01:36] <malcom2073> Yep you would, until the next poweroff :)
[17:02:39] <pink_vampire|2> http://i.imgur.com/sq3g4Yh.png
[17:02:51] <pink_vampire|2> Done!
[17:04:17] <Polymorphism> nice work pink_vampire|2
[17:04:44] <Polymorphism> what do you use for a mill
[17:05:00] <pink_vampire> thanks Polymorphism
[17:05:38] <pink_vampire> g0704
[17:06:35] <pink_vampire> what kind of a machine do you have?
[17:06:41] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: ^
[17:08:23] <Polymorphism> wow that looks pretty nice
[17:08:27] <Polymorphism> and then you converted it to cnc?
[17:08:30] <Polymorphism> how much did that cost
[17:08:52] <Polymorphism> 7-1/16" x 26-5/8"
[17:09:05] <Polymorphism> slightly narrow width for my needs in the x, or is it y?
[17:09:18] <pink_vampire> any pics?
[17:09:58] <Polymorphism> no
[17:10:00] <Polymorphism> or yes
[17:10:14] <pink_vampire> I have 1025oz/in dc servo motors.
[17:10:34] <pink_vampire> with the G320X drivers.
[17:11:12] <pink_vampire> the whole thing is about 5K$
[17:11:44] <pink_vampire> but just the wires cost me about 350$..
[17:12:00] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: http://i.imgur.com/Wc8bgID.png
[17:12:28] <pink_vampire> become to http://i.imgur.com/J42TZe0.png http://i.imgur.com/bMZt37d.png
[17:12:51] <Polymorphism> nice
[17:13:07] <pink_vampire> the machine with the control cabinet http://i.imgur.com/zopeOzP.png
[17:13:22] <Polymorphism> did you design the cabinet
[17:13:32] <pink_vampire> yes
[17:13:34] <pink_vampire> http://i.imgur.com/wWPij14.png
[17:13:40] <pink_vampire> old pic ^
[17:14:25] <pink_vampire> more about the cabinet
[17:14:26] <pink_vampire> http://imgur.com/a/M8yGV
[17:15:09] <Polymorphism> 4000 feet of wire??
[17:15:14] <pink_vampire> yes..
[17:15:18] <pink_vampire> 5 axis..
[17:16:02] <pink_vampire> servo drivers mount http://imgur.com/a/LtdkC
[17:16:28] <Polymorphism> what is the 4th and 5th axis
[17:16:54] <pink_vampire> I didn't decide yet..
[17:17:40] <pink_vampire> I'm thinking maybe to make 4th axis and 3d printer extruder
[17:18:42] <pink_vampire> you are also in to metal working?
[17:19:31] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: ^
[17:21:51] <Polymorphism> yes
[17:21:52] <Polymorphism> recently
[17:24:43] <pink_vampire> what kind of parts?
[17:25:14] <Polymorphism> I;m looking to buy my first cnc
[17:26:21] <Polymorphism> to take the extruded aluminum enclosures like these: http://www.hammondmfg.com/jpeg2/1455NHD1601BK_AB.jpg and cut holes like these: https://www.amphenolcanada.com/ProductSearch/drawings/AC/MUSBD111XX.pdf
[17:26:24] <Polymorphism> pink_vampire,
[17:27:41] <pink_vampire> look very easy.
[17:27:58] <pink_vampire> small end mill and trace the outline.
[17:28:44] <pink_vampire> just protect the paint,
[17:29:41] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: ^
[17:30:17] <Polymorphism> its anodized finishs o no probl;em
[17:30:29] <Polymorphism> in fact I think if I engrave I will get silver letters
[17:30:33] <Polymorphism> to label the cutouts
[17:31:47] <Deejay> gn8
[17:32:05] <pink_vampire> but the chips can scratch the surface
[17:32:15] <pink_vampire> Deejay: ?
[17:32:25] <Deejay> yeah?
[17:32:33] <Deejay> need some sleep now
[17:32:42] <pink_vampire> did you saw the part?
[17:32:48] <Deejay> yep, very nice
[17:33:07] <pink_vampire> almost like datron..
[17:33:21] <Deejay> perfect, nice finish
[17:33:45] <pink_vampire> and I did it with a defective Z axis
[17:34:14] <CaptHindsight> _methods: oh noes! http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/garry-shandling-dead-comedian-was-878124
[17:37:46] <os1r1s> cradek Do you know if I have to do something special to use an port on an sserial device?
[17:38:04] <os1r1s> pcw_home I didn't see if you answered me earlier, I had to drop
[17:41:25] <Frank__9> good morning
[17:41:31] <_methods> CaptHindsight: well i guess it's just cruz and trump now
[17:44:48] <os1r1s> Anyone use sserial?
[17:48:12] <Polymorphism> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4jwVdFsoGo&t=1m0s how much for this machine!!!!
[17:49:44] <CaptHindsight> _methods: We're Not Gonna Take It https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xmckWVPRaI the new campaign song
[17:50:42] <_methods> heheheh
[17:57:46] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: it's not the machine is the cam program.
[18:21:25] <_methods> it's not the heat it's the humidity
[18:39:41] <os1r1s> andypugh pcw_home Either of you around?
[18:54:09] <Polymorphism> Loetmichel2, what do you think of the xzero raptor
[19:00:51] <shaun413> hello, does anyone have experience with the GRBL
[19:01:10] <malcom2073> Yep
[19:01:15] <shaun413> Im having issues with the steps/mm I set... Using gt2 belt and 20 tooth gt2 pully..
[19:01:19] <shaun413> hey malcom2073
[19:01:22] <malcom2073> Hi
[19:01:28] <shaun413> i set the steps/mm to 80...
[19:01:36] <malcom2073> fwiw, reprap is a better place to ask, but I'll try to help if I can
[19:01:41] <shaun413> lets bring this to offtopic
[19:03:07] <CaptHindsight> _methods: what a coincidence
[19:05:07] <Polymorphism> what type of tools do I need to begin?
[19:05:08] <CaptHindsight> the trifecta
[19:08:23] <Polymorphism> is the 6040 controller reallytt junk?
[19:08:26] <Polymorphism> some say to replace it with gecko
[19:08:57] <_methods> indeed
[19:10:35] <malcom2073> Polymorphism: It is, you can go a bit cheaper and get one of the 6600 3 axis boards, they seem to be alright
[19:11:17] <Polymorphism> seems like a waste to just junk the controller...
[19:11:22] <Polymorphism> scrap it I mean
[19:12:42] <Polymorphism> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-6090-CNC-Router-Engraver-Machine-23-6-x35-5-x4-WorkSize-Free-Sea-Shipping-/371583465857?hash=item568419b981:m:m6JuJNy2gTliIpNW-2PxsqQ
[19:12:44] <Polymorphism> this thing looks nice
[19:18:18] <malcom2073> It looks nice... but it's probably about identical to the 6040
[19:18:34] <malcom2073> in terms of quality
[19:18:51] <malcom2073> Unless you need the size, why?
[19:21:28] <cncnoob1979> hey guys. I have a 7i77 board and using pots for overrides. Got a quick question. Im using 5k pots with 24 volts on input 0,1,2 for overrides. I burned up one of my pots yesterday. They are .3 wats pots, but Im not pulling a load on them, just for an override. Any suggestions on possiblities on why? DIGIKEY #987-1329-ND.
[19:23:01] <cncnoob1979> Im wondering if it was just a bad pot. The 7i77 shouldnt really being drawing any current from them.
[19:24:22] <Polymorphism> I was considering it for the size only, yeah
[19:26:06] <PCW> 24V and 5K is only about 1/8 W so should be OK (7I77 load is 22K so a bit more than a mA max from the wiper)
[19:26:23] <cncnoob1979> http://www.bitechnologies.com/pdfs/p232.pdf Here is the datasheet for the pots if curious. I have 3 and only one has burned up [let the blue magic smoke out]
[19:26:28] <cncnoob1979> thanks pcw..
[19:26:59] <cncnoob1979> I was thinking the load should should be neg~
[19:27:07] <malcom2073> Polymorphism: That thing is fairly huge, you got space for it?
[19:27:28] <PCW> wrong resistance mixed in? not sure
[19:28:00] <cncnoob1979> was working for about a week... I have 3 on the overrides...
[19:28:17] <cncnoob1979> linked in para together.
[19:28:39] <PCW> accidentally shorted wiper?
[19:29:41] <cncnoob1979> Im thinking the wiper had to have shorted... I just didnt want to cause damage to the 7i77... even tho the 7i77 should detect a fault in this situation.
[19:30:16] <PCW> pretty hard to hurt the inputs (they will take +-100V short term)
[19:30:22] <cncnoob1979> internally that is. The connections were short runs and direct. Also soldered..
[19:30:33] <cncnoob1979> awesome...
[19:31:34] <os1r1s> PCW Sorry to bug you. My 7i76 does not appear to be talking to my 6i25. Is there a way to confirm/tell?
[19:31:34] <cncnoob1979> Im going to throw another pot on it. For my sanity, Im going to replace the 24v powersupply to a regulated one.
[19:32:16] <Polymorphism> http://www.lagunatools.com/cnc/IQ_2# http://www.xzerocnc.com/raptor.htm
[19:32:21] <Polymorphism> what does the room think of these options
[19:32:36] <cncnoob1979> do you have the field power supplied? if not the 7i76 will not be seen by the 6i25
[19:32:54] <os1r1s> cncnoob1979 I have field power supplied to vin
[19:33:04] <os1r1s> pin 5 on TB1
[19:33:20] <os1r1s> And W1 is to the left
[19:33:24] <cncnoob1979> have you checked your jumpers to how you have it wired?
[19:33:35] <cncnoob1979> with vin only you have to set the jumper
[19:33:43] <cncnoob1979> cant remeber which.
[19:34:15] <cncnoob1979> are you powering the cards via the bus or externaly with 5 volts?
[19:34:39] <os1r1s> cncnoob1979 Via the bus
[19:34:45] <os1r1s> I have both power leds lit
[19:34:48] <malcom2073> Polymorphism: The raptor actually looks alright
[19:34:55] <malcom2073> thick aluminum plate, proper linear bearings
[19:34:56] <PCW> do you have both Yellow LEDs on the top edge of the card on?
[19:35:01] <os1r1s> PCW Yes
[19:35:03] <malcom2073> Needs screw covers
[19:35:28] <PCW> Is this a new setup?
[19:35:40] <os1r1s> PCW Yes.
[19:36:04] <PCW> are you sure the 6I25 has 7I76 firmware installed?
[19:36:11] <os1r1s> PCW I flasshed the 6i25 for the 7i76x2.bit
[19:36:16] <os1r1s> I can verify it
[19:36:38] <os1r1s> Do I need the 6i25 connected to the 7i76 when I flash it?
[19:36:41] <PCW> did you cycle the power after flashing?
[19:36:49] <os1r1s> PCW Yes. I powercycled
[19:37:25] <PCW> Why do you think you are not communicating with the 7I76?
[19:37:50] <os1r1s> PCW I'm getting an error in the linuxcnc config, so I wanted to confirm.
[19:37:58] <os1r1s> PCW It might be fine, but I don't know how to tell.
[19:38:08] <PCW> what error?
[19:38:35] <os1r1s> PCW hm2_5i25.0.7i76.0.0.output-00 does not exist
[19:39:59] <PCW> OK that does look like a communication error
[19:40:02] <PCW> is field power on when you started linuxcnc?
[19:40:22] <PCW> and is this a pncconf created config?
[19:40:24] <os1r1s> Yes. I applied field power, then booted the machine
[19:40:33] <os1r1s> PCW Yes. It was created with PNCconf
[19:41:05] <os1r1s> I verified the firmware and it verified ok
[19:41:08] <PCW> what is the field power voltage?
[19:41:12] <os1r1s> 12v
[19:41:20] <os1r1s> Registers 11.9 with a multimeter
[19:41:31] <os1r1s> 1A supply
[19:41:36] <PCW> OK is W3 in the left hand position?
[19:42:05] <os1r1s> It was. I moved it to the right because the manual said it needed to be there for normal operation
[19:42:11] <os1r1s> Should I move it back and try again?
[19:42:32] <PCW> Yes
[19:42:41] <os1r1s> Do I need to power it all down to do it?
[19:43:04] <PCW> (left=default is for normal operation)
[19:44:19] <PCW> you dont need to power down to change the jumper but you don need to
[19:44:21] <PCW> power cycle the field I/O 12V power for the change to be recognized
[19:45:00] <os1r1s> Bringing it all back up
[19:45:57] <os1r1s> That did it
[19:46:04] <PCW> setup mode is only for things like updating the 7I76's firmware
[19:46:50] <os1r1s> PCW Ok. Thanks. That makes sense. I shouldn't have changed it ...
[19:46:53] <os1r1s> PCW And just to be clear, there is no way to power field power off of the host pci, right?
[19:47:22] <PCW> you can run it off host 12V if you wish
[19:47:56] <os1r1s> PCW But I can't just run it from the PCI/lpt connection, right?
[19:48:19] <PCW> No you need 10V minimum
[19:48:25] <os1r1s> PCW K
[19:48:42] <os1r1s> PCW Awesome. One step further. Thank you very much for the help
[19:50:45] <PCW> I should make the manual clearer about W3
[19:50:47] <PCW> a couple of people have moved it thinking "well I'm setting up so it should be in set-up mode"
[19:52:02] <os1r1s> PCW I didn't apply Vin when I first tested. So it wasn't working and I thought I might need to flip W3 after scouring the manual. Clearly I should have looked at the power section, but I did not.
[19:53:09] <os1r1s> PCW The part that wasn't apparent to me was that I needed both bus power and power the the field section. It is clear in the manual. Just a dumb mistake on my part.
[19:55:40] <PCW> Yeah, the field I/O section is completely isolated and independent and needs to be powered to be discovered
[20:04:19] <Polymorphism> http://www.omiocnc.com/x6-2200l-3a/
[20:04:21] <Polymorphism> what about this unit
[20:05:17] <pink_vampire> new part
[20:09:47] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: it's look like the chinese cnc engraver
[20:10:14] <Sync> that is one of those 6040s
[20:10:24] <djdelorie> and it can mill "non-ferrous metals, such as stainless steel" :-P
[20:11:51] <Polymorphism> its supposed to be slightly better
[20:11:52] <Polymorphism> and USB
[20:11:52] <malcom2073> That one is nicer than the 6040
[20:12:07] <malcom2073> It uses 20mm linear rails rather than rod
[20:13:12] <malcom2073> USB means what? Smoothstepper clone, so you gotta use mach3?
[20:14:37] <Polymorphism> I'm not sure
[20:14:42] <Polymorphism> I liked the idea of using a laptop for control
[20:15:39] <Polymorphism> how does it compare to this unit
[20:15:39] <Polymorphism> http://www.ebay.com/itm/3D-CNC-ROUTER-ENGRAVER-ENGRAVING-6040-DESKTOP-4AXIS-DRILLING-MILLING-MACHINE-US-/221354177332?hash=item3389bcb334:g:yoIAAOSwm8VUyYZi
[20:15:52] <Polymorphism> I'm wondering if its worth the premium
[20:16:19] <Polymorphism> http://www.ebay.com/itm/3D-CNC-ROUTER-ENGRAVER-ENGRAVING-6040-DESKTOP-1-5KW-DRILLING-MILLING-MACHINE-USA-/131745451666?hash=item1eaca40e92:g:PNoAAOSw9N1VsIZn
[20:16:25] <Polymorphism> there is this unit too, but I'm worried about the white box
[20:16:37] <Polymorphism> I read black box is best of the three colors
[20:18:33] <Polymorphism> the differences dont mean a lot to me
[20:18:35] <Polymorphism> they are subtle
[20:18:49] <Polymorphism> the rails are different somehow? and I notice the more expensive unit has the dust boot on the z axis
[20:19:34] <Polymorphism> http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/yoIAAOSwm8VUyYZi/s-l1600.jpg pic one http://www.omiocnc.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/x/6/x6-2200usb-1.jpg pic two
[20:19:36] <pink_vampire> LOL stainless
[20:20:12] <pink_vampire> even with the G0704 it's not easy to cut stainless
[20:20:40] <djdelorie> heh, even my bridgeport doesn't like stainless
[20:21:22] <pink_vampire> just look at the E-stop button, look like crap.
[20:21:49] <Polymorphism> why are there so many different variations of this model
[20:22:11] <pink_vampire> because it's cheap and easy to make.
[20:22:38] <Polymorphism> http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-four-4-axis-6040-1500W-cnc-router-engraver-engraving-milling-machine-desktop-/221763760469?hash=item33a2267155:g:DXsAAOSwEeFU-XAP
[20:22:42] <Polymorphism> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1500W-four-axis-4-axis-CNC-Router-engraver-cnc-engraving-milling-machine-6040-/141935675067?hash=item210c0686bb:g:GiYAAOSwh-1W3kBf
[20:22:48] <Polymorphism> which one of these 7 variations is best?
[20:22:52] <Polymorphism> can someone please assist
[20:23:04] <Polymorphism> I think this is the model I want, but not sure which variation is the best deal
[20:23:26] <pink_vampire> all of them are +- ok..
[20:23:37] <Polymorphism> its my understandingf the black box may not need to be replaced, whereas the others I'm not sure
[20:23:56] <Polymorphism> pink_vampire, what about the x6 unit
[20:24:00] <Polymorphism> http://www.omiocnc.com/x6-2200l-3a/
[20:24:06] <Polymorphism> is it worth the premium?
[20:24:12] <pink_vampire> looking for one with ballscews, not acme screws.
[20:24:13] <Polymorphism> ~2100 vs 1400
[20:26:18] <Sync> Polymorphism: the usb box will lock you into using mach3 without mods
[20:26:36] <Polymorphism> is that a bad thing?
[20:26:40] <Polymorphism> I know it costs 150
[20:26:42] <pink_vampire> I will go with the one from omiocnc. the rails much better.
[20:27:19] <Polymorphism> Sync, it will only work with mach 3 youre saying?
[20:27:21] <djdelorie> polymorphism: since this is the linuxcnc group, yeah, being locked into something that isn't linuxcnc is bad ;-)
[20:27:39] <Sync> if you are happy with mach3, why not
[20:27:51] <Sync> I wouldn't
[20:27:53] <CaptHindsight> http://smoothieware.org/smoothieboard how about this reinvented wheel?
[20:27:53] <Polymorphism> either software will be my first cnc
[20:28:09] <djdelorie> I have nothing against mach3, but this isn't the mach3 support group, that's all...
[20:28:15] <Polymorphism> I understand
[20:28:29] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: I'm working with mach3
[20:28:32] <evil_ren> mach3 was pretty annoying to use, but it looked windows
[20:28:32] <CaptHindsight> djdelorie: it is for x-users :)
[20:29:06] <Polymorphism> pink_vampire, you are saying the omiocnc is worth 2200 USD vs 1400 USD?
[20:29:11] <Polymorphism> for the generic 6040 on ebay
[20:29:16] <Polymorphism> because of the rails?
[20:29:26] <Polymorphism> but the downside might be, mach 3
[20:29:28] <Sync> I mean, in the end you can replace the rails easily
[20:29:29] <Polymorphism> so I need to add 150
[20:29:40] <Sync> and the basic machine does not change
[20:29:55] <Polymorphism> if I have to pay the same to upgrade them or similar though
[20:30:00] <Polymorphism> I'd rather just get the better unit first
[20:30:23] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: yes.
[20:30:32] <pink_vampire> look at the rails.
[20:30:41] <pink_vampire> the spindle much stronger.
[20:30:56] <CaptHindsight> another potential Linuxcnc + hm2_eth + fpga contender http://linuxgizmos.com/quad-core-11dollar-hacker-board-runs-linux-on-allwinner-h3/
[20:31:32] <Sync> it is not like it is better
[20:31:57] <Polymorphism> ?
[20:32:31] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: I'm using LPT with C10 the breakout
[20:32:41] <jdh> and servos?
[20:32:45] <jdh> how said.
[20:32:47] <jdh> or sad.
[20:32:49] <pink_vampire> I don't like the usb stuff.
[20:33:02] <djdelorie> Capt - that's not an x86 board, does linuxcnc run on ARM? I couldn't even get it to run on Fedora list time I tried.
[20:33:03] <pink_vampire> jdh: yes, with servos!
[20:33:12] <jdh> and pport, from 1983
[20:33:14] * djdelorie really prefers servos
[20:33:28] <jdh> sure, but... a pport and servos.
[20:33:31] <djdelorie> yup
[20:33:34] <jdh> that's just wrong.
[20:33:49] <djdelorie> nah, the electronics take step/dir pulses and control the servo accordingly
[20:33:49] <CaptHindsight> djdelorie: yes, it runs on ARM, the problems have been smooth graphics and talking to an FPGA
[20:33:51] <pink_vampire> jdh: why?
[20:34:07] <pink_vampire> lpt support 1mbs
[20:34:38] <pink_vampire> and you saw the parts..
[20:34:47] <djdelorie> my servo drivers support far faster than the pport can handle, and run the servos on a 20KHz loop with 4000 steps/rot at up to 3000 RPM
[20:34:50] <jdh> 1mbs is meaningless for that
[20:34:59] <djdelorie> and they don't lose steps, even when you hit the e-stop
[20:35:07] <pink_vampire> jdh: http://i.imgur.com/sq3g4Yh.png
[20:35:39] <jdh> heh
[20:35:46] <pink_vampire> djdelorie: what servo controller are you using?
[20:35:59] <jdh> there is some law that says any slotted item will always be at one extreme of the slot.
[20:36:12] <djdelorie> (correction: I think they ignore steps during estop, don't want them starting up on you - but they keep track of steps past the end stops, and recover)
[20:36:29] <djdelorie> pink_vampire: I designed my own: http://www.delorie.com/electronics/bldc/
[20:36:52] <pink_vampire> wow impressive!
[20:36:52] <djdelorie> pink_vampire: my hobby is the tools, not using them :-)
[20:37:06] <pink_vampire> I like to use them...
[20:37:24] <djdelorie> I used to design PC motherboards back in the day, so little boards like this are easy
[20:37:35] <CaptHindsight> lost steps of Linuxcnc https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2723/4197531859_a539aa5253_b.jpg
[20:38:35] <pink_vampire> I'm using the G320X..
[20:38:42] <djdelorie> if you try to step past an end stop, the motor stops moving but the board keeps track of where it "should be" so it can resume motion when the PC tells it it's back off the end stop
[20:39:06] <pink_vampire> nice.
[20:39:41] <pink_vampire> but for me to reference the machine is soo easy with the probe.
[20:39:50] <djdelorie> it's basically the same setup as the new ClearPath "stepper killer" servos
[20:40:22] <djdelorie> oh sure, but if a job goes beyond the workspace, the spindle and PC don't get out of sync
[20:40:33] <djdelorie> so you don't have to re-home
[20:41:58] <pink_vampire> do you know how can I measure 115V ac voltage?
[20:42:08] <pink_vampire> I want to monitor the voltage.
[20:42:15] <djdelorie> yes... but measure for what?
[20:42:38] <djdelorie> voltage, current, real power, power factor?
[20:42:52] <djdelorie> http://www.delorie.com/electronics/powermeter/
[20:43:02] <yasnak> boring night. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3WMsSVFm54&feature=youtu.be
[20:43:49] <pink_vampire> djdelorie: that current. I want the voltage.
[20:44:24] <CaptHindsight> starts out like an injection molding horror film...
[20:44:26] <djdelorie> easiest way is to get a small power transformer, like 5V (i.e. an AC-AC wall wart) and feed it into an ADC on a micro
[20:44:38] <yasnak> it is ;)
[20:44:49] <djdelorie> to measure current you need a current transformer and an amp circuit
[20:44:56] <yasnak> i cut the me feeding the random hitch hiker into it scene
[20:45:06] <CaptHindsight> heheh
[20:45:09] <pink_vampire> what about 72V dc
[20:45:18] <djdelorie> anyway, measure the 5V peak and scale it accordingly
[20:45:19] <yasnak> not sure if they would be considered bio-absorbable tho :/
[20:45:46] <djdelorie> if the 72VDC is isolated (i.e. common ground with your micro's power supply), just use a resistor divider to scale it to your local ADC's input range
[20:45:56] <djdelorie> add some protection diodes and a fuse, and there you go
[20:46:03] <pink_vampire> the transformer is nice.. but I'm looking for better solution.
[20:46:15] <evil_ren> what do you mean by monitor?
[20:46:30] <djdelorie> it's hard to measure wall voltage safely because of isolation and floating ground issues
[20:46:42] <pink_vampire> djdelorie: I want it optical isolated.
[20:47:08] <djdelorie> put an arduino on the measuring side and an opto between that and your serial port :-)
[20:47:27] <djdelorie> you can get opto-isolated USB cables too
[20:47:31] <evil_ren> fuck arduinos, say microcontroller, thanks.
[20:47:59] <pink_vampire> opto-isolated USB cables??
[20:48:07] <djdelorie> heh, I'm a big fan of R8C and RX micros, the only arduino clone I've got is in my 3d printer...
[20:48:22] <evil_ren> analog levels are more difficult across isolation
[20:48:33] <djdelorie> pink_vampire: yeah, I think so. I know you can get opto-isolation chips for usb ports. You just need to power
[20:48:35] <djdelorie> both sides
[20:48:56] <evil_ren> optical isolation at least, so you would want to convert and then do some sort of digital comm over the optical link
[20:49:04] <djdelorie> http://www.bb-elec.com/Products/USB-Connectivity/USB-Isolators/USB-Isolators.aspx
[20:49:17] <djdelorie> I think they use magnetic isolation transformers, like ethernet, for speed.
[20:49:25] <evil_ren> thats kind of neat
[20:49:35] <pink_vampire> nice!
[20:50:36] <pink_vampire> djdelorie: what king a machine do you have?
[20:50:56] <djdelorie> designed and built that myself too: http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/
[20:51:38] <robin_sz> its ...
[20:51:41] <robin_sz> its ...
[20:51:45] <robin_sz> wooden.
[20:51:53] <pink_vampire> i remember now..
[20:51:58] <djdelorie> with a few videos: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzyUu7rVBhWC64_0J843uOA
[20:52:11] * Polymorphism agonizes over the cnc decision
[20:52:30] <yasnak> do it
[20:52:32] <robin_sz> Polymorphism, how many to buy?
[20:52:33] <CaptHindsight> would I, wood eye
[20:52:37] <djdelorie> yeah, wooden. It wiggles a lot, you have to be careful about acceleration, esp the Z feed.
[20:52:43] <Polymorphism> http://www.tormach.com/product-pcnc-440.html
[20:52:45] <Polymorphism> I wish this were cheaper
[20:52:54] <djdelorie> but when you have a wood shop, you make wooden tools :-)
[20:53:03] <pink_vampire> I wish also..
[20:53:36] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: what do you want to do with the machine?
[20:54:46] <robin_sz> djdelorie, now you have tojust make it again in better wood
[20:54:50] <evil_ren> some of the tormach packages are pretty cool, lots of tooling out of the box
[20:54:57] <Polymorphism> pink_vampire, cut holes like this https://www.amphenolcanada.com/ProductSearch/drawings/AC/MUSBD111XX.pdf
[20:55:02] <djdelorie> evil_ren: well duh :-)
[20:55:02] <robin_sz> but this time you can rout it
[20:55:10] <Polymorphism> pink_vampire, http://www.ebay.com/itm/Extruded-aluminum-electronic-power-enclosure-PCB-instrument-Box-Case-Project-DIY-/331210803660 in enclosures like these
[20:55:14] <Polymorphism> top and end plates
[20:55:41] <djdelorie> er, robin_sz: well duh :-) (stupid scroll)
[20:55:51] <pink_vampire> that it's cool.
[20:55:59] <evil_ren> you could do that with a taig
[20:56:19] <evil_ren> for way under $3k with all tooling
[20:56:25] <robin_sz> djdelorie, baltic birch would be a good choice, much tougher than the far-eastern ply
[20:56:30] <pink_vampire> first time that I saw that you can get stuff like that easy.
[20:56:38] <CaptHindsight> http://www.gavinshoebridge.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Wooden-Laptop-6.jpg woodn't you want one?
[20:56:45] <Polymorphism> with what?
[20:56:54] <Polymorphism> http://www.protocase.com/images/spotlight/nanolumens/display-interface-unit1.jpg
[20:56:56] <evil_ren> a taig cnc micromill
[20:56:58] <Polymorphism> I wantr a profdessional end result like that
[20:57:03] <Polymorphism> I'll engrave for the labels
[20:57:11] <evil_ren> yeah thats not hard
[20:57:27] <evil_ren> but you would have to do 19" rack stuff in two setups
[20:57:34] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: If you are going to use small cutting tools you have to get something with high speed spindle.
[20:57:37] <evil_ren> but for bud box type stuff, taig is perfect
[20:57:42] <robin_sz> Polymorphism, thats what we do all day on our router
[20:57:56] <pink_vampire> 6-8K rpm and up..
[20:57:57] <evil_ren> only has a 12" X, so it cant to a rack mount panel in one setup
[20:58:13] <Polymorphism> ?
[20:58:18] <Polymorphism> this is something I've wondered
[20:58:21] <djdelorie> robin_sz: I use a mixture of hardwood plywood (oak, usually) and solid woods, but yeah. I used what I had.
[20:58:23] <Polymorphism> I can do a larger size than the table fits??
[20:58:25] <Polymorphism> in multiple setups?
[20:58:37] <Polymorphism> but only if its larger in X or Y right?
[20:58:43] <evil_ren> you would have to be a decent machinist to use it to cut panels because the x axis isnt long enough, so you have to move the panel and cut the second half
[20:58:46] <pink_vampire> and if you are going to work just on flat stuff go with evgraver
[20:59:03] <Polymorphism> evil_ren, that doesnt souind ideal
[20:59:09] <evil_ren> on X, you can do as wide as you can figure out how to hold the panel
[20:59:09] <robin_sz> evil_ren, https://www.dropbox.com/s/awwkhioi83r634t/DSC_1670.jpg?dl=0
[20:59:27] <evil_ren> polymorphism: it isnt but its standard machining
[20:59:28] <CaptHindsight> wooden clothing? https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/b6/14/5c/b6145c46ad51bdb2e0f6c56554b658c7.jpg
[20:59:34] <evil_ren> you mentioned bud boxes first
[20:59:44] <robin_sz> evil_ren, https://www.dropbox.com/s/kwf6fj943s9l66m/DSC_1671.jpg?dl=0
[20:59:49] <pink_vampire> milling machine is high Z low speed spindle but high torque, and small table.
[21:00:05] <evil_ren> robin_sz: neat whats that
[21:00:12] <robin_sz> 19" front panels
[21:00:18] <Polymorphism> that looks clean
[21:00:22] <Polymorphism> way thicker than I need even
[21:00:32] <evil_ren> robin_sz: no what machine
[21:00:33] <robin_sz> 3mm is kinda too thin
[21:00:36] <Polymorphism> I'm realizing I could make the enclosures 100% from scratch with a machine like this
[21:00:51] <Polymorphism> too thin you say?
[21:01:07] <robin_sz> for front panels yeah, on 19" rackmount
[21:01:10] <evil_ren> but yeah if you can afford it, tormach package would be awesome
[21:01:14] <Polymorphism> cant I just double sided tape it to spoilbnoard
[21:01:22] <Polymorphism> if it were 5000 maybe
[21:01:30] <Polymorphism> nearly 10,000 well equipped is just too high
[21:01:32] <robin_sz> we use vacuum, on an 8x4 sheet
[21:01:35] <Polymorphism> unless it can do something truly amazing
[21:02:12] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: there a guy here that make RF shielding enclosures, and he use the 40X60 chinese machine
[21:02:17] <evil_ren> anyway, $3500 gets you a fuckin arduino cnc in the modern market, so shrug
[21:02:38] <Polymorphism> pink_vampire, the 4060?
[21:02:55] <pink_vampire> 6040..
[21:02:56] <gregcnc> that was loet you chatting iwth earlier
[21:03:00] <Polymorphism> right my bad
[21:03:02] <robin_sz> Polymorphism, we are going to try cutting our own cases on the router, instead of punching them
[21:03:15] <Polymorphism> thats what Loetmichel2 was doing
[21:03:17] <Polymorphism> with the 6040
[21:03:17] <CaptHindsight> yeah, but they don't rely on a general purpose cpu
[21:03:20] <Polymorphism> it was legendary
[21:03:22] <robin_sz> Polymorphism, we bought a 10x5 machine, shoudl be big enough
[21:03:30] <Polymorphism> he scores the panels and then hand bends
[21:03:31] <robin_sz> the 8x4 is a bit small
[21:03:38] <Polymorphism> the 8x4?
[21:03:40] <Polymorphism> which is that
[21:03:53] <robin_sz> the one in the photo, the Vytek
[21:04:04] <evil_ren> i drove a 10x5 vacuum table router for a few months, man that thing was cool
[21:04:07] <CaptHindsight> general purpose cpu's get bored when running specialized apps
[21:04:15] <robin_sz> but we bought a multicam 10'x5' for the panels
[21:04:29] <robin_sz> yeah, vaccum is the way to go
[21:04:37] <Polymorphism> the tormach 440 looks like it can do crazy deep cuts in a single pass
[21:04:46] <robin_sz> I have 10hp on the 8x4, but 2 x 20hp on the 10x5
[21:05:00] <Polymorphism> I'm considering the vacuum table
[21:05:08] <robin_sz> its the way to go
[21:05:14] <Polymorphism> I need to pick a mill first
[21:05:17] <evil_ren> setup is crazy fast
[21:05:20] <robin_sz> yep
[21:05:33] <robin_sz> we used to run 3/4" birch ply, single pass
[21:05:36] <robin_sz> 10m a minute
[21:05:39] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: the 440 is almost like the G0704.
[21:05:45] <evil_ren> the one i was using had popup pins, you just shove the boards into the 3 pins, hit go
[21:06:04] <CaptHindsight> does anyone make a double-sided tape bed? with a big roll of tape?
[21:06:10] <robin_sz> yep, thats nice, I bought one like thatm but never powered it up lol
[21:06:11] <Polymorphism> 10.5k USD
[21:06:12] <Polymorphism> too much
[21:06:14] <pink_vampire> and yeah.. you can go deep on aluminum. but for steel no way.
[21:06:15] <Polymorphism> deluxe with stand
[21:06:23] <Polymorphism> compared to 2k
[21:06:29] <Polymorphism> I was thinking about it for a minute
[21:06:30] <Polymorphism> but now I realize
[21:06:33] <Polymorphism> thats just way too much
[21:06:38] <Polymorphism> and probably way more than I need
[21:06:51] <Polymorphism> tormach 440 looks like you could mill parts for nasa
[21:06:53] <robin_sz> evil_ren, we had an Italian 8x4 with pop-up pins .. Bulleri? i think that was it
[21:06:56] <gregcnc> Capthindsight do you have trouble falling out of bed?
[21:07:04] <pink_vampire> but for cutting panels you need long travel.
[21:07:10] <robin_sz> I sold it for 4K
[21:07:15] <evil_ren> robin_sz: ya i didnt really understand where mine came from
[21:07:26] <evil_ren> holz her? like it was both german and brazilian
[21:07:26] <Simonious> I've got this center star: https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipOrc8IlOyOiJd4RpL-rcgsXkmpp8zh7t_i4HSA1 but I kinda want https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/e1/d5/cb/e1d5cbd6f3cde9c0238b99d7d5f0e4f4.jpg I'm not totally sure how to do the over/under lines, but.. we'll see :)
[21:07:35] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: no I fall out of bed pretty easily
[21:07:40] <Polymorphism> pop up pins
[21:07:41] <robin_sz> pink_vampire, for big panels, you need to be able to nest them economically into the sheet
[21:07:43] <Polymorphism> this is great
[21:07:44] <Polymorphism> oh no
[21:07:47] <Polymorphism> I;m addicted already
[21:08:15] <djdelorie> Polymorphism: then you don't want us to mention automatic tool changers or sheet feeders...
[21:08:20] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: what is the bigger item that you want to machine?
[21:08:25] <Polymorphism> I'm already dreaming of the automatic tool changer
[21:08:31] <Polymorphism> not sure what the sheet feeder is
[21:08:42] <Polymorphism> pink_vampire, probably 12"x12" for enclosures
[21:08:46] <evil_ren> honestly if cost is an issue dont waste money on tool changers
[21:08:55] <djdelorie> it feeds sheets of plywood into the machine
[21:08:57] <Polymorphism> if it cost just a little more money for a much larger machine that I could use for many other things I would consider it
[21:08:58] <evil_ren> changing tools isnt that much drama
[21:09:02] <robin_sz> you have a stack of sheets of material, 8x4 ... it just loads them automatically
[21:09:05] <Polymorphism> but my primary requirement is around 12"x12"x4" max
[21:09:28] <Polymorphism> oh wow I see
[21:09:28] <evil_ren> you would still need to do two setups to do rack panels
[21:09:31] <evil_ren> with that envelope
[21:09:36] <Polymorphism> so you just set it and forget it and mass produce hundreds of parts
[21:09:38] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: the 440 can do 12" by 12"??
[21:09:50] <evil_ren> i think more, no?
[21:09:52] <Polymorphism> pink_vampire, I'm trying to determine that
[21:09:57] <evil_ren> and less, i dont think its square
[21:10:23] <robin_sz> we had a Haas mill with tool change to do 19" panels ... the router is WAY faster
[21:10:24] <pink_vampire> 10” x 6.25” x 10” Work Envelope
[21:10:53] <Polymorphism> thats probably smallert than I'd like
[21:10:54] <evil_ren> 10” x 6.25” x 10”
[21:11:01] <CaptHindsight> gregcnc: http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/sites/default/files/styles/full_1000/public/field/image/austinROADS0522c2.jpg?itok=GBqKwLXe for holding parts to the bed
[21:11:01] <robin_sz> we used to buy 1.75" and 3.5" bar stock ... it took .. forever
[21:11:10] <evil_ren> haha, my taig is like the same, X and Y
[21:11:16] <gregcnc> what the
[21:11:16] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: you need very high speed spindle for small endmills.
[21:11:25] <pink_vampire> 20-60K rpm
[21:11:25] <evil_ren> 12.0 x 5.5 x 6.0
[21:11:25] <Polymorphism> pink_vampire, 20k rpm?>
[21:11:35] <pink_vampire> you can calculate it.
[21:11:43] <evil_ren> you can get away with 10k
[21:11:47] <Polymorphism> I can run 20k
[21:12:01] <evil_ren> yeah you can calc it, but for a lot of small tools you need to spin at like 100k
[21:12:06] <Polymorphism> http://www.omiocnc.com/x6-2200l-usb-3a-cnc-desktop-engraver.html
[21:12:11] <Polymorphism> I can't spin at 100k
[21:12:17] <evil_ren> no one can, thats my point
[21:12:20] <Polymorphism> thats absurd
[21:12:24] <gregcnc> not really
[21:12:33] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: you can go even to 120K with air
[21:12:38] <evil_ren> so you go as fast as you can, and do you calculations based on that
[21:12:45] <djdelorie> My machine has a 56k air-driven spindle...
[21:13:02] <evil_ren> he doesnt want to spend a lot
[21:13:22] <evil_ren> i dont think youre going to get a 56k spindle for a few $k
[21:13:28] <robin_sz> engraving on a mill is HARD
[21:13:32] <pink_vampire> that nice - Feed rate : 300~5000mm/min
[21:13:53] <evil_ren> i do a lot of PCB engraving
[21:14:15] <robin_sz> we gave up trying to engrave
[21:14:17] <djdelorie> evil_ren: it was $30 at grizzly :-)
[21:14:23] <evil_ren> precision isnt an issue, tool life is
[21:14:31] <robin_sz> unless you have a floating-nose-cone engraver, it looks shit
[21:14:38] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/181811459860 60K rpm $900
[21:14:42] <evil_ren> djdelorie: whats runout? how much power?
[21:14:57] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: (Z)140mm ( nice!!
[21:14:59] <djdelorie> Grizzly H8212
[21:14:59] <evil_ren> robin_sz: i got one of those, from 2linc
[21:15:03] <evil_ren> well, cheaper from ebay
[21:15:13] <evil_ren> works pretty well on the test cuts i did
[21:15:17] <robin_sz> evil_ren, getting nice engraving depth over a 19" panel is hard on a mill, keeping +- 0.2mm
[21:15:26] <djdelorie> the runout is pretty low, esp compared to a dremel. I do 0.013" drills with it
[21:15:28] <robin_sz> so we laser engrave now
[21:15:36] <robin_sz> its quick and easy on anodised ally
[21:15:37] <evil_ren> yeah that would be a lot less drama
[21:15:47] <robin_sz> 10W laser works fine
[21:15:49] <Polymorphism> I dont want to spend more than 3500 ideally
[21:15:56] <Polymorphism> USD
[21:16:04] <evil_ren> for PCB stuff i mostly use 30d conicals, so depth not that big a deal
[21:16:09] <robin_sz> Polymorphism, just get an old knee mill
[21:16:17] <robin_sz> fit steppers
[21:16:21] <evil_ren> and convert?
[21:16:28] <djdelorie> evil_ren: see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR1y6Eq19EU
[21:16:32] <evil_ren> yeah if you have the time and are technical
[21:17:00] <Polymorphism> I'm technical
[21:17:03] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: for 1/8" end mill 4 fluts in aluminum you need about 10K rpm.
[21:17:04] <Polymorphism> but I don't have the time
[21:17:08] <Polymorphism> not anymore =(
[21:17:30] <evil_ren> djdelorie: endmills, sideways
[21:17:38] <Polymorphism> thats no problem
[21:17:42] <evil_ren> you made a wood cnc
[21:17:43] <evil_ren> =\
[21:17:54] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: and the calculation is for HSS for carbide you can go much faster.
[21:18:00] <robin_sz> Polymorphism, http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matsuura-760-V-2-cnc-mill-plus-free-cnc-knee-mill-Great-Deal-/262330315038?hash=item3d141af11e:g:~0AAAOSwyjBW4tZw
[21:18:10] <djdelorie> evil_ren: I've milled PCBs too, see http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/127-63-disk.html
[21:18:19] <Polymorphism> someone posted that earlier
[21:18:20] <djdelorie> and yes, wooden cnc machine :-)
[21:18:25] <skunkworks> we are converting a matsuura at the moment..
[21:18:25] <robin_sz> pink_vampire, you want single flute
[21:18:27] <Polymorphism> problem is local pickup and a bit too much
[21:18:40] <Polymorphism> thats amazing
[21:18:41] <evil_ren> http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/drilltest-cnc-015.html
[21:18:42] <robin_sz> thats for two!
[21:18:44] <Polymorphism> I want to mill pcbs as well
[21:18:49] <evil_ren> bit rough, heh
[21:19:01] <skunkworks> If you start with a cnc you are about 89% there,,,
[21:19:09] <pink_vampire> robin_sz: single flute is just for very high spindle.
[21:19:10] <djdelorie> I was pushing the speed. Both times the bit broke
[21:19:11] <robin_sz> Polymorphism, thats for two ... sell one
[21:19:17] <evil_ren> i was having really good luck with oyramid profile cutters
[21:19:32] <djdelorie> also, learned to always approach the hole from the same XY direction, to remove backlash issues.
[21:19:44] <robin_sz> pink_vampire, below 6mm you want single flute
[21:19:48] <evil_ren> https://www.2linc.com/engraving_tools_pyramid.htm
[21:20:02] <djdelorie> this is a better sample: http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/osboard-cnc-015-closeup.html
[21:20:06] <pink_vampire> robin_sz: not true.
[21:20:12] <Polymorphism> these prices!?
[21:20:13] <Polymorphism> so reasonable
[21:20:17] <evil_ren> 30 degrees, .005" radius, i was doing down to .008" space trace boards
[21:20:19] <Polymorphism> for some reason I thought tools were 100 each
[21:20:50] <robin_sz> pink_vampire, so, say 6mm ... what rpm do I need to spin to get the correct tip speed (sfm) for aluminium?
[21:20:58] <Polymorphism> .2mm spacing???
[21:21:48] <pink_vampire> 5K
[21:21:57] <robin_sz> nah, way too slow
[21:22:12] <robin_sz> 12mm cutters maybe
[21:22:13] <evil_ren> polymorphism: ya
[21:22:18] <pink_vampire> for HSS.
[21:22:32] <Polymorphism> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ng9LCBZK89g
[21:22:45] <evil_ren> http://i.imgur.com/gXzvL01.jpg
[21:22:51] <pink_vampire> for carbide you can go 20K
[21:23:07] <Polymorphism> this is amazing
[21:23:07] <evil_ren> check out the .012" via drills
[21:23:20] <Polymorphism> it hasnt always been like this has it
[21:23:28] <evil_ren> ?
[21:23:30] <Polymorphism> the abilitry to create pcbs at home for 2000
[21:23:40] <Polymorphism> or less
[21:23:40] <evil_ren> i did that board like 8 years ago
[21:23:41] <CaptHindsight> how do you handle vias and through holes? Just leave them without any copper?
[21:23:52] <Polymorphism> what machine?
[21:24:01] <evil_ren> capthindsight: vias you have to lace
[21:24:04] <evil_ren> its drama
[21:24:08] <djdelorie> #80 drills and 28 gauge brass wire are a perfect combo :-)
[21:24:14] <evil_ren> and through hole stuff, you just have to be away
[21:24:18] <evil_ren> DRC wont really help
[21:24:20] <CaptHindsight> or 2+ layers
[21:24:27] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/amp.JPG
[21:24:30] <skunkworks> milles
[21:24:32] <skunkworks> milled
[21:24:36] <evil_ren> like you just have to know not to route a trace under a connector where you cant get to it to solder it
[21:24:37] <pink_vampire> djdelorie: how do you hold #80 drill??
[21:24:48] <djdelorie> in the cnc machine, of course...
[21:24:58] <Polymorphism> thats exaclty the type of thing I want to do
[21:25:02] <evil_ren> polymorphism: taig 2019
[21:25:02] <djdelorie> also http://www.delorie.com/pcb/dremel-stand/
[21:25:22] <pink_vampire> it's with 1/8" shank?
[21:25:25] <djdelorie> yes
[21:25:32] <robin_sz> pink_vampire, 2 or 4 flutes means stupid high feed rates to hit .005" to 0.008" chips ... run about 2m a minute 18K singleflute, with 2 flute that feed would need to double, and the space for chip clearance in the tool is halved .. its going to bind up
[21:25:32] <pink_vampire> ok...
[21:25:34] <os1r1s> This line will signal a fault on an axis, right? net Xfault-in parport.0.pin-10-in => axis.0.amp-fault-in
[21:25:40] <evil_ren> polymorphism: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Taig-gecko-cnc-mill-milling-machine-engraver-router-/151666655360
[21:25:42] <os1r1s> Pins modified for course ...
[21:25:46] <djdelorie> pcb drills and mills are usually 1/8 shank
[21:25:49] <evil_ren> ive had mine almost 10 years, its the same machine
[21:25:57] <Polymorphism> ????
[21:26:03] <Polymorphism> evil_ren, now you've got my attention
[21:26:05] <Polymorphism> whats this all about
[21:26:12] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/schem/latestcurrentlimit/right.JPG
[21:26:14] <evil_ren> well, its a real machine tool
[21:26:16] <Polymorphism> the work area though
[21:26:26] <Polymorphism> only 3.5" ???
[21:26:30] <evil_ren> 12x5.5x6
[21:26:49] <Polymorphism> too small I think
[21:26:50] <evil_ren> no the table is 3.5" wide
[21:26:57] <pink_vampire> http://i.imgur.com/Nt50ynf.png
[21:27:00] <robin_sz> then buy that Matsuura :)
[21:27:04] <evil_ren> well, thats more than the tormach you linked
[21:27:11] <evil_ren> in terms of panel widths in a single setup
[21:27:16] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/top.JPG
[21:27:20] <evil_ren> the tormach was 10" X, this is 12" X
[21:27:28] <Polymorphism> true
[21:27:35] <Polymorphism> its also smaller than the 6040 though
[21:27:37] <evil_ren> maybe 11.5" officially, mine will go 12" fine
[21:27:38] <Polymorphism> just weighing my options
[21:27:51] <evil_ren> anyway, its a micromill
[21:27:54] <Polymorphism> is this the machine you use?
[21:27:56] <robin_sz> and if you want some blank 2U x 19" panels ... let me know, I have a few hundred kilos
[21:28:03] <evil_ren> it fits in the trunk of a volvo, mounted to a 2x4 folding table
[21:28:14] <evil_ren> also in the hatchback of a scion tc
[21:28:15] <robin_sz> of 3.5" x 20" blank stock
[21:28:27] <evil_ren> oh no shit?
[21:28:32] <evil_ren> how much?
[21:28:40] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: also the smallest the end mill you need less torque
[21:29:02] <robin_sz> scrap price I guess, no use to us
[21:29:22] <pink_vampire> you can get a machine with ACME screes for very cheap.
[21:29:30] <robin_sz> we gave up machining from stock, too hard
[21:30:02] <evil_ren> because the finish or what?
[21:30:12] <robin_sz> because of the setup
[21:30:25] <robin_sz> its way easier to stick an 8x4 on the router
[21:30:45] <robin_sz> come back 4 hours later, 60 front panels
[21:32:34] <robin_sz> and we cut all the way around, so no tapering in the passes for the end profiles
[21:32:49] <pink_vampire> I'm going to make some chips, I need to make 4 parts, to from each one (3d machining) http://i.imgur.com/Nt50ynf.png
[21:32:57] <robin_sz> the stock varies +- 0.5mm
[21:33:09] <robin_sz> bedtime ...
[21:33:49] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: how many panel do you need to make?
[21:33:55] <pink_vampire> panels?
[21:34:44] <Polymorphism> 10 per product
[21:34:50] <Polymorphism> with 5-10 cuts per panel
[21:35:00] <pink_vampire> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS9oK5pBK18
[21:35:27] <pink_vampire> that is the speed of the chinese engravers.
[21:35:41] <Polymorphism> is that bad?
[21:35:44] <Polymorphism> or good
[21:35:47] <pink_vampire> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awah4PXwAAo
[21:36:12] <pink_vampire> you need to decide..
[21:36:46] <evil_ren> that seems like pretty typical speeds
[21:36:50] <Polymorphism> it looks good to me
[21:36:51] <pink_vampire> for me it's ok.. I can do with my machine 5M/min, but I set it to 600mm/min,
[21:37:11] <Polymorphism> thats also way thicker than what I want to cut
[21:37:15] <Polymorphism> I want to cut this material
[21:37:27] <pink_vampire> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJCSRXZf_Ok
[21:37:55] <Polymorphism> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Split-body-Extruded-Aluminum-Box-Enclosure-Case-Project-electronic-DIY-110-88-38-/380955959898
[21:37:58] <Polymorphism> I need to cut the end plate
[21:38:00] <Polymorphism> and also the top
[21:38:32] <Polymorphism> wow
[21:38:35] <Polymorphism> but the speed doesnt mean a lot to me
[21:38:39] <Polymorphism> if it can do the same job
[21:38:46] <Polymorphism> and auto tool changer...
[21:38:47] <Polymorphism> how much???!
[21:38:58] <pink_vampire> the datron..
[21:39:11] <pink_vampire> I want to know also the price..
[21:39:51] <pink_vampire> people say about 50K$
[21:39:56] <Polymorphism> woah
[21:39:58] <Polymorphism> way too much
[21:40:19] <pink_vampire> but it huge, and granit base..
[21:40:29] <pink_vampire> 60K spindle, tool changer.
[21:41:04] <pink_vampire> hsk collets
[21:41:52] <pink_vampire> and it's just look soo slick and cool.
[21:42:44] <djdelorie> Polymorphism: example of how fast you can cut in aluminum with the right machine: https://youtu.be/ifMn6pHXLMM?t=11m45s
[21:45:31] <Polymorphism> ???
[21:45:34] <Polymorphism> incredible
[21:45:38] <Polymorphism> but I only need this thickness max
[21:45:38] <Polymorphism> http://g01.s.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1MrL1GXXXXXbcXFXXq6xXFXXXo/200042748/HTB1MrL1GXXXXXbcXFXXq6xXFXXXo.jpg
[21:46:44] <unfy> spindle on the 6040 looks beefier
[21:46:48] <Polymorphism> http://g01.a.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1n.huJVXXXXaxXpXXq6xXFXXXo/10-pcs-electrical-aluminum-box-extruded-powder-coating-outlet-enclosure-39-96-100mm-aluminum-project-box.jpg
[21:46:53] <Polymorphism> than what?
[21:46:55] <Polymorphism> unfy,
[21:47:05] <pink_vampire> 39mm is nothing,
[21:47:23] <unfy> than the '4060' in the video before it
[21:47:36] <unfy> could just be optical illusion and me being really busy at work atm heh
[21:48:22] <CaptHindsight> landscape spindles tend to be bigger than portrait mode spindles
[21:48:35] <Polymorphism> lol
[21:49:33] <Polymorphism> so I'm picturing clamping down that case
[21:49:43] <Polymorphism> and cutting a perfect rectangle and 4 mounting screw holes for an lcd
[21:49:44] <Polymorphism> in the top
[21:50:09] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: you can't
[21:50:11] <Polymorphism> and then double sided tape the end panels to spoiboard and mill several cutouts for knobs, jacks, etc
[21:50:23] <pink_vampire> the corners have to round.
[21:50:28] <Polymorphism> thats fine
[21:50:34] <Polymorphism> I shouldnt have said perfect
[21:50:36] <pink_vampire> or you can push them out.
[21:50:40] <Polymorphism> I meant compared to my sloppy work with a dremel
[21:51:03] <Polymorphism> 2mm
[21:51:11] <unfy> methinks 'perfect' meant that it's a straight lined rectangle, not sharp corners :D
[21:51:24] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: http://imgur.com/a/LtdkC
[21:51:41] <pink_vampire> look how I solved it.
[21:51:48] <Polymorphism> yes
[21:51:50] <Polymorphism> a lot like that
[21:52:09] <unfy> i like that, vampire, i like it alot
[21:52:11] <Polymorphism> but I want to put the whole case in there
[21:52:43] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuYCQEo17V0 Homemade Punch Press
[21:53:44] <pink_vampire> unfy: thanks :)
[21:54:52] <pink_vampire> I need to make curve cavity, without ball endmill :(((
[21:55:06] <pink_vampire> I have just 1/32 ball endmill
[21:55:15] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dmj42zD8yEs diy punch & die
[21:56:06] <pink_vampire> CaptHindsight: wire edm
[21:56:26] <pink_vampire> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB8LH_MOZcc
[21:56:33] <CaptHindsight> make a few dies for connector openings..... rock-n-roll
[21:56:43] <pink_vampire> I like the red color on the gear,
[21:57:26] <Polymorphism> wtf?
[21:57:29] <Polymorphism> its miniature lol
[21:58:28] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: but it's soooo adorable and cute.
[21:58:49] <Polymorphism> it really is
[22:03:18] <unfy> can't wait for my copy of machinery's handbook to arrive in next few days \o/
[22:03:39] <pink_vampire> unfy: what version?
[22:04:02] <unfy> relatively old. 21st edition / '79
[22:04:37] <unfy> reading some of the reviews of the recent reprint / edition and poor paper quality, i figured i'd grab an older copy on the cheap instead
[22:04:59] <Polymorphism> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCsoC3i7JYc
[22:05:01] <Polymorphism> I'm sold!!!
[22:05:18] <CaptHindsight> don't listen to the Texas school system, the math hasn't changed
[22:06:04] <CaptHindsight> tap, drill, gauge etc tables haven't changed either
[22:06:19] <unfy> capt: the only possible concern i could see would be that a given cutter isn't made anymore or have to find the cross for it etc
[22:06:30] <pink_vampire> unfy: for how much you get it?
[22:06:36] <unfy> $30 shipped
[22:06:40] <pink_vampire> wow!
[22:06:46] <CaptHindsight> yeah few extra seconds on Google
[22:06:48] <unfy> well, 30usd
[22:07:07] <Polymorphism> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FGpvWqLK-s&t=1m30s
[22:07:09] <Polymorphism> I'm sold!!
[22:07:10] <pink_vampire> I need to be able to do CTRL+F
[22:07:30] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: It's like me and datron..
[22:07:32] <unfy> that's what toc/index/page tabs are for :D
[22:07:57] <pink_vampire> unfy: NO!
[22:08:36] <Sync> unfy: well, there are no real specific cutters in there so there is no problem
[22:08:37] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: my first cnc machine was from CDROM parts.
[22:08:45] <Sync> although some of the values might be too low for today
[22:08:52] <Polymorphism> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FGpvWqLK-s&t=0m40s
[22:08:57] <Polymorphism> the tools come out of a little room with a door!
[22:09:35] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: AGAIN it's not the machine - is the cam program.
[22:10:02] <Polymorphism> surely its both
[22:10:08] <Polymorphism> I can';t just fire up this software on the 6040
[22:10:25] <pink_vampire> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy1Mb6G_VJ0
[22:10:31] <Polymorphism> this is legendary
[22:10:40] <pink_vampire> you can do it.
[22:10:46] <pink_vampire> on ANY machine
[22:11:28] <Polymorphism> mirror finish though!
[22:11:30] <Polymorphism> on that machine
[22:11:35] <Polymorphism> amazing
[22:11:47] <pink_vampire> on the 6040 it will be abit smaller and poor quality, but the grode will work.
[22:12:42] <CaptHindsight> 28th edition is online as pdf
[22:13:07] <pink_vampire> link
[22:13:17] <pink_vampire> never saw it
[22:13:28] <unfy> for coding, yeah i prefer something i can grep etc, but for the book / manual thing... i'd rather get to know the manual :D
[22:14:59] <Sync> oh god, is that shit set in word
[22:15:01] <Sync> bah
[22:15:04] <Sync> can't look at it
[22:16:43] <pink_vampire> I need 1/8" ball endmill..
[22:17:22] <Polymorphism> I need 1/32"
[22:18:04] <pink_vampire> LOL
[22:18:15] <pink_vampire> I have 1/32" ball end mill..
[22:19:16] <unfy> cap: i'll assume via nefarious means
[22:21:16] <unfy> granted, it'd be kinda fun to kill 3-5 reams of paper printing that bad boy :D
[22:22:51] <pink_vampire> 0.0305
[22:22:53] <pink_vampire> 0.031
[22:22:55] <unfy> and then either sheet protectors or laminate it. great googly moogly .... 2500 pages of standard copy paper PLUS lamination ? wtf is it a bill passed by us congress ?!
[22:22:56] <pink_vampire> 0.033
[22:23:03] <pink_vampire> 0.033
[22:23:07] <pink_vampire> 0.124
[22:23:21] <pink_vampire> 1.4995
[22:23:24] <pink_vampire> 1.502
[22:23:30] <pink_vampire> 0.000
[22:23:31] <pink_vampire> 0.0005
[22:23:31] <pink_vampire> 0.000
[22:23:46] <pink_vampire> omg
[22:24:20] <pink_vampire> and I didn't understand way it's not typing..
[22:24:32] <pink_vampire> it's send everything here.
[22:25:52] <pink_vampire> Polymorphism: unfy^
[22:29:02] <pink_vampire> my caliper
[22:31:59] <Not-Renny> 5 axis CNC crud is a thing!?
[22:32:06] <Not-Renny> O_o
[22:32:55] <pink_vampire> Not-Renny: I'm with 3 axis
[22:48:34] <CaptHindsight> http://www.levil.com/
[23:02:18] <Inheritance> http://openbuildspartstore.com/c-beam-machine-mechanical-bundle/ how does this compare to the 6040
[23:12:20] <pink_vampire> smaller
[23:12:54] <pink_vampire> X Axis Travel 350mm - (13.5") Y Axis Travel 280mm - (11")
[23:13:01] <pink_vampire> Inheritance: ^
[23:14:06] <Inheritance> I see
[23:14:58] <pink_vampire> do you have something now?
[23:15:19] <CaptHindsight> trolls are out in force
[23:15:32] <Inheritance> no
[23:15:42] <Inheritance> this is my first cnc
[23:15:58] <pink_vampire> what do you want to make with it?
[23:16:31] <pink_vampire> Inheritance: ^
[23:17:10] <Inheritance> pink_vampire, I'm Polymorphism
[23:17:28] <pink_vampire> ok...
[23:17:45] <pink_vampire> why did you change the nick?
[23:17:49] <Inheritance> so I'd like to machine extruded aluminum housings with custom cutouts
[23:17:53] <Inheritance> I'm on laptop now
[23:18:02] <pink_vampire> ok
[23:18:34] <pink_vampire> let me few min
[23:18:38] <Inheritance> ok
[23:18:41] <pink_vampire> I have an idea for you
[23:24:27] <pink_vampire> are you close to NY?
[23:25:12] <pink_vampire> I'm in NY and if you want I can help you to cut the metal parts for your machine.
[23:27:11] <pink_vampire> Inheritance: ^
[23:29:42] <Inheritance> I'm pretty far from there
[23:30:26] <pink_vampire> :(
[23:30:36] <pink_vampire> where are you?
[23:31:22] <pink_vampire> Inheritance: ^
[23:31:31] <Inheritance> vt
[23:33:14] <Inheritance> I think the 6040 will meet my needs
[23:33:18] <Inheritance> just need to figure out which one
[23:34:00] <pink_vampire> heh that far
[23:34:30] <pink_vampire> for metal I will with strong spindle.
[23:37:38] <minibnz> woo ballscrews installed and under test now :)
[23:37:44] <unfy> \o/
[23:39:38] <minibnz> will see how round my circles are now that i have backlash reduced to 0.02mm Y and 0.03mm on X axis. i had 0.52 on y and 0.85 backlash with the stock leadscrews instaled.it might even be possible to run my axis faster before it drops steps
[23:40:24] <pink_vampire> 0.02 is ok..
[23:41:42] <os1r1s> Is there a way to delay the reading of a fault input pin until after the servo drive is enabled?
[23:42:29] <pink_vampire> os1r1s: in what driver?
[23:42:31] <minibnz> after i test the circle i will try cutting a gear.. it has round lobes and should be about 24mm in diameter, last time it ended up with 23.2 to 24.9mm diameters on the diagonals was not happy the gear would not roll in the box.
[23:42:42] <os1r1s> pink_vampire On linuxcnc
[23:43:01] <pink_vampire> I have no idea
[23:43:37] <pink_vampire> minibnz: PICS
[23:43:40] <minibnz> os1r1s you are going to have to gate the error pin with the PLC.. that is you only allow the error pin to reach the controller once the enable pin of the servo is active.
[23:44:08] <minibnz> Pink_Vamprie i will do a write up as soon as i can.
[23:44:11] <os1r1s> minibnz ...
[23:44:22] <os1r1s> minibnz That is a pain
[23:44:54] <minibnz> it might not be the only way.. but its the only way i know.. and i DONT know everything :)
[23:46:09] <minibnz> you might be able to do it with just some net statements in the hal but i am not that well versed in that.. plc's are easy... its like basic but with graphics
[23:46:41] <os1r1s> net Xfault-in pcl720.0.pin-26-in => not.0.in
[23:46:41] <os1r1s> net Xfault not.0.out => axis.0.amp-fault-in
[23:46:55] <os1r1s> minibnz Any idea what that does?
[23:48:55] <minibnz> that looks like it takes the signal/net Xfault hooks it to the plc pin 26 and feeds that to the (not.0) inverter so 1=0 and 0=1 (probably for a active low input)
[23:48:56] <minibnz> then takes the output of the inverter not.0 assigns/pipes it to the axis.0 module fault input..
[23:49:45] <os1r1s> So basically just inverts it ...
[23:50:28] <minibnz> so i would guess if you open up the classic ladder and look at the pins you could take pin26 pipe it into a AND gate input, the other input will get the Enable signal.. the output then goes to the error net/flag
[23:50:59] <minibnz> yes and also assigns it to a pin in the PLC so you can gate it or use it as a gate or what ever you like
[23:53:02] <os1r1s> minibnz The problem I have is that the fault pin reads true until the servo is enabled.
[23:53:19] <os1r1s> So linuxcnc enables it, then immediately disables it because the pin is false