#linuxcnc | Logs for 2016-03-19

[00:00:04] <yasnak> ;/
[00:00:12] <OdinYggd> That's why you've got backlash, your screw has no preload
[00:00:14] <minibnz> when i went to put the nut back on a ball dropped out of place, but i put it back in where it came from and moved the nut on to a nylon mandrel that was much better
[00:00:18] <enleth> minibnz: FYI, I did all kinds of fucked up acrobatics around that mill only to avoid separating the ball nut and ball screw, those were the *only* components that did not go apart upon disassembly of the mill. That, uh, tells something.
[00:01:19] <minibnz> had to lathe the screws so i couldnt leave the nuts on while i did that and there is physically no way to get them into the mill with them on the shafts..
[00:02:09] <minibnz> short of cutting the mill in half there is no way at all.. i even picked up my mill turned it upside down and tried that but no there is no way to fit them in with out taking them off
[00:02:26] <OdinYggd> Did this mill originally have ball screws?
[00:02:36] <enleth> honestly, I'd try to tape the nut hard to the screw to machine the screw on a lathe
[00:02:42] <minibnz> no it had leadscrews that were terrible
[00:02:48] <enleth> let it just hang in there, rotating with the screw
[00:03:24] <enleth> or put it against the chuck with some soft material inbetween, or something
[00:03:37] <minibnz> the guy that actually did the lathe work said to take them off.
[00:03:38] <OdinYggd> I'd snug the nut down against the spindle tube so that it helped hold the rest of the screw in place and keep it from bending
[00:04:00] <OdinYggd> Usually a plastic tube is present to shim the work and spindle tube tight together so they don't wobble
[00:04:16] <OdinYggd> There might be a way to restore the screw's preload, but I wouldn't know how
[00:04:23] <OdinYggd> If you can do that, the accuracy could come back
[00:04:25] <OdinYggd> Otherwise, its junk
[00:04:33] <enleth> minibnz: that guy might not have known what he's talking about
[00:05:19] <minibnz> he is a mechanical engineer by trade has mutliple cnc machines, and so far has never lead me astray.
[00:05:36] <yasnak> hes a cartoonist?
[00:06:02] <enleth> minibnz: so, uh, ask him about the ball nut preload and what to do if you suspect it's gone?
[00:06:04] <minibnz> and seriously the backlash is 0.002mm the old screws had 0.85mm
[00:06:29] <OdinYggd> tbh that isn't as bad as it sounds
[00:06:46] <yasnak> thats really not bad at all...
[00:06:54] <minibnz> that could be the belt drive that goes to the stepper
[00:07:11] <yasnak> are you sure you meant 0.002mm?
[00:07:27] <yasnak> because uh, i'd say thats as perfect as an old manual leadscrew will get haha
[00:07:29] <OdinYggd> 0.0000787" is incredibly good- beyond what most dial indicators I've used can check
[00:07:41] <yasnak> yggd, stop thinking in my head
[00:07:44] <OdinYggd> If that's how tight it is after having the nut taken off and a ball removed, you got REALLY lucky
[00:08:03] <OdinYggd> I'm usually happy if a machine holds 0.001"
[00:08:09] <yasnak> yeah me too haha
[00:08:20] <yasnak> i mean we usually shoot for tenths on the cncs, but thats good...
[00:08:32] <enleth> uh, he said 0.02mm before
[00:08:42] <yasnak> ok, so thats alot worse but not bad
[00:08:52] <minibnz> im really not worried about the backlash its the incremental step differences.. so repeated 0.1mm moves in one direction result in 0.1 0.195 0.290 0.300 0.395 0.400 ... 1.00
[00:09:01] <yasnak> again it might be the real max at 7 tenths too
[00:09:25] <yasnak> that doesn't sound like backlash tho
[00:09:28] <enleth> 0.02 will prevent mirror finishes unless locked at the ways, though
[00:09:45] <yasnak> \sounds like a loose setup or something...if you wack the table does it move too?
[00:09:46] <OdinYggd> what resolution of encoder
[00:09:51] <OdinYggd> And what kind of encoder
[00:09:57] <minibnz> it is 0.002mm not 0.02. .my bad on the first msg.
[00:10:16] <minibnz> no encoders. open loop.
[00:10:16] <enleth> OK, so... forget it?
[00:10:20] <yasnak> yeah lol
[00:10:23] <OdinYggd> He got really lucky
[00:10:28] <yasnak> you sure you mean mm and not inch?
[00:10:30] <OdinYggd> taking the nut off should have destroyed that ballscrew
[00:10:43] <minibnz> it runs smoot as..
[00:10:51] <minibnz> so does the X axis.
[00:10:51] <yasnak> 0.002mm is like shit. idk how you're even measuring that without some expensive equipment
[00:11:03] <enleth> Maybe those are some weirdo disassembly-proof ballscrews and that machinist guy actually knew what he's doing?
[00:11:22] <OdinYggd> Or maybe he somehow managed to get the preload back on it
[00:11:24] <minibnz> ok so thats why i was starting to question my equipment.
[00:11:34] <OdinYggd> A ball fell out- the preload was completely gone
[00:11:39] <OdinYggd> how did you get it back in
[00:12:04] <yasnak> i think we should start at, minibnz: do you know how small 0.002mm is? i'd love to see how/what you're using to measure this
[00:12:27] <minibnz> to get the ball back in i looked down the end of the nut saw the gap and pushed the ball into place then turned the screw back up to where the balls were covered
[00:12:31] <XXCoder> .002mm? dang
[00:12:48] <yasnak> not being condescending, just saying that if you're measuring it wrong then i'd fix the measuring part first before you do anything.
[00:14:31] <minibnz> yeah just went and checked it, i miss read it.. it is 0.02mm..
[00:15:04] <OdinYggd> Stil, you got lucky if you had that screw apart. That's not bad at all
[00:15:06] <XXCoder> 0.00078" thats still quite decent
[00:15:13] <OdinYggd> On my dial indicator that wouldn't even be one graduation
[00:15:14] <minibnz> maybe i didnt need that last beer... or this beer... it is 0.02mm of backlash which is not bad.
[00:15:35] <OdinYggd> I've never heard of a ball screw surviving dissassembly like that
[00:15:42] <OdinYggd> Once the preload is lost, its gone
[00:16:17] <XXCoder> cant reset?
[00:17:50] <minibnz> so when i move 1mm left and right the dial goes back to zero.. if i do smaller 0.1mm steps they all seem to be a different length, but when i get to 1mm its correct. i might just forget that and see how circle a circle comes out and see if i need to do anything from there.
[00:17:51] <OdinYggd> No way that I know of. The nut cartridge should never ever come off of a ballscrew
[00:18:05] <OdinYggd> anyway what encoder are you using to measure the 0.1mm steps
[00:18:16] <OdinYggd> what type and resolution is it, and how is it driven
[00:18:41] <XXCoder> how do it orginially get assembled?
[00:19:27] <minibnz> technically the nut was not going to come off the ballscrew, the screw got cut and the nut stayed on the offcut while i lathed the other end of the shaft.. then it got screwed back onto the big section of the original screw, its just that i popped a ball out and back in again.
[00:20:24] <minibnz> but i found the nylon mandrel was much easier to take the X axis nut off and back on again, this time i did not pop a ball doing it.
[00:21:00] <minibnz> the nylon mandrel was lathed up so it holds the balls in their groove as the screw comes out..
[00:22:38] <minibnz> unless you are saying there is some special springs in there holding the balls in place that i have over squashed? i dont see how tht would hurt anything, now maybe the ball popping out might if the preload requires all the balls to be put in a certain order.. i dont think i swapped the order..
[00:23:44] <OdinYggd> Its like an assembled ball bearing. The components are squished together with an exact amount of pressure between them
[00:23:56] <OdinYggd> Anything to disrupt that makes it perform poorly
[00:24:13] <OdinYggd> I don't actually know what maintains the preload, I just know that it must not get lost for any reason
[00:24:21] <OdinYggd> Probably varies by design how the preload is kept on it
[00:24:49] <minibnz> from what i saw there is three rings that are filled with balls so if i swapped one or two of the balls around from the same groove, you are saying that is going to cause such a problem?
[00:25:10] <OdinYggd> Moreso the fact that a ball came out, which means the contact pressure between screw and nut is incorrect.
[00:25:23] <OdinYggd> As the screw wears it will develop backlash much faster than it should
[00:25:51] <OdinYggd> Normally ball screws do not develop backlash at all- until the wear is so great that the preload is lost
[00:26:28] <OdinYggd> as for the irregularity, I would look closely at your encoder
[00:26:29] <minibnz> oh so you are saying instead of this screw lasting 25years it will now only last 24.5years? what are we talking here? weeks over decades ?
[00:26:41] <OdinYggd> Eh, instead of lasting 25 years it might fail after only 5
[00:27:06] <minibnz> meh thats longer than the rest of the mill will last so i am good with that.
[00:27:26] <OdinYggd> Yeah. You got it back together good enough to be tight, so run it a little while. But it won't last as long as it could have
[00:27:29] <Sync> OdinYggd: the preload is merely achieved by slightly oversized balls/the grooves being closer together
[00:27:39] <Sync> so as long as you get the balls back in, nothing is lost
[00:27:43] <OdinYggd> Ah
[00:27:44] <minibnz> thats what i thought sync..
[00:28:00] <minibnz> as long as i have the same number of balls in the right place its fine.
[00:28:10] <Sync> you can even repreload them with bigger balls again
[00:28:14] <Sync> if you are cheap
[00:28:15] <OdinYggd> Neat.
[00:28:21] <OdinYggd> Did not know they could be repaired
[00:28:41] <Sync> well, if they would be plastically deformed they would not be preloaded
[00:28:50] <Sync> so they have to work in the elastic region
[00:29:10] <yasnak> lol
[00:29:19] <XXCoder> balls of steel
[00:29:27] <yasnak> the balls can be overloaded or underloaded
[00:29:32] <OdinYggd> Seems its the people I learned this stuff from that had it wrong
[00:29:32] <yasnak> so there is some magic to it
[00:29:42] <OdinYggd> Though it probably is best to just not take it apart
[00:29:46] <OdinYggd> cause it might not go back together
[00:29:48] <yasnak> but main thing is...keep track of your balls :P
[00:30:47] <Sync> yasnak: measuring 2µm is easy, imho
[00:30:48] <OdinYggd> minibnz, what kind of encoder and controller are you using?
[00:31:04] <minibnz> its not like i took the entire screw out with nothing holding the balls but the will of an imaginary friend. i simply slid the nylon mandrel out/in as the screw moved..
[00:31:10] <minibnz> no encoders. open loop
[00:31:20] <OdinYggd> Then what measured the 0.1mm?
[00:31:26] <minibnz> the dial indicator.
[00:31:46] <OdinYggd> Okay now I see where you picked it up at.
[00:32:02] <yasnak> sync, he said he was using a dia indicator on 0.002m measurement. i was very intrigued how that works.
[00:32:04] <OdinYggd> Check that all the castings are tight, beyond that its already pretty good
[00:32:23] <Sync> yasnak: very well, there are 1µ indicators
[00:32:33] <Sync> or one of those CEJ flexure ones
[00:32:34] <OdinYggd> yasnak I've worked with indicators that do 0.0005" gradients
[00:32:36] <XXCoder> what backlash do newer cnc machines have anyway
[00:32:40] <minibnz> yeah im not too good with the analog dials
[00:32:46] <yasnak> right, not dial indicators :P
[00:32:56] <OdinYggd> Well a 10 year old CNC mill has a factory specified tolerance of 0.0002"
[00:33:03] <yasnak> yeah but you also worked with 0.002mm as in 0.00007"?
[00:33:04] <OdinYggd> Newer machines get even tighter
[00:33:07] <yasnak> dont think so :P
[00:33:25] <XXCoder> cool. worse machine I work with has pretty bad backlash on Y lol
[00:33:28] <XXCoder> .001" or so
[00:33:49] <OdinYggd> My favorite piece of work with leadscrews in it has 0.185" backlash
[00:33:52] <XXCoder> it dont run tight tol parts so usually fine
[00:33:53] <yasnak> my taper50 mill is bad too. always have to cut same direction
[00:34:05] <OdinYggd> 50 years of service have made a lot of uneven wear
[00:34:08] <yasnak> use it for heavy roughing. need to fix it soon
[00:34:16] <Sync> yasnak: so what about those http://www.pruefmittel24.com/images/products/large/31090180_1.jpg
[00:34:18] <minibnz> anyhow im going to leave it at that for now. its better than it was :)
[00:34:25] <OdinYggd> Yeah. you're fine lol
[00:34:29] <toastyde2th> XXCoder, newer cnc machines have a very strange backlash
[00:34:32] <OdinYggd> Ended up learning a thing or two
[00:34:38] <minibnz> now i am considering upgrading the steppers..
[00:34:40] <toastyde2th> it's better described as hysteresis than backlash
[00:34:42] <yasnak> sync, show me the setup and i'll say okay you can measure it
[00:34:49] <toastyde2th> and it's a few tenths on most machines
[00:35:10] <OdinYggd> Cause it isn't really backlash, its the resolution of the encoder causing some uncertainty
[00:35:18] <toastyde2th> no, it's actual backlash
[00:35:24] <yasnak> but you're not going to reliably measure it with that haha. i'm not saying it doesn't exist.
[00:35:25] <OdinYggd> huh
[00:35:30] <minibnz> do i go bigger steppers or steppers with gearboxes... both wil cost me about the same $300
[00:35:31] <Sync> you can yasnak
[00:35:39] <Sync> 1µ is no big deal
[00:35:42] <XXCoder> toastyde2th: so it corrects backlash a little so its around less thanb .0001 by average
[00:35:42] <toastyde2th> there is slop in the motors, kinematic screw mounts, etc
[00:35:58] <OdinYggd> Yeah, the couplings between motor and screw are always a trouble spot
[00:36:00] <toastyde2th> there is stiction on the screw so it doesn't reverse perfectly
[00:36:11] <OdinYggd> you get some metal stretching around the setscrews under load
[00:36:17] <minibnz> if i get new steppers i will get dual axle ones so i can add encoders if i want
[00:36:18] <OdinYggd> I had one machine actually snap the end of its ballscrew off
[00:36:20] <OdinYggd> that was exciting
[00:36:24] <toastyde2th> XXCoder, it tries to correct it but doesn't always do a great job
[00:36:35] <yasnak> sync, i do these all the time. its not going to measure because of exactly what toasty said. you will not get 0.002mm. which is why i asked. okay done debating this. ;)
[00:36:50] <toastyde2th> the only real way to look at hysteresis in general on a machine is with a ballbar
[00:36:57] <XXCoder> toastyde2th: interesting. I wonder if it had better encoders ut could correct better
[00:36:59] <yasnak> ^^
[00:37:01] <yasnak> this guy
[00:37:03] <OdinYggd> Or laser calibration
[00:37:14] <OdinYggd> When the waterjet was retrofitted both were done
[00:37:21] <yasnak> ballbar is probably the best way
[00:37:25] <yasnak> and more then good enough
[00:37:32] <OdinYggd> laser calibration of the axis scales along its full travel, then ballbar to check for roundness tolerance
[00:37:43] <XXCoder> reading ballbar
[00:37:45] <Sync> yasnak: wat, the indicator will reliably resolve 1µ without issue
[00:37:54] <toastyde2th> XXCoder, better encoders do help but the major thing is the actual machine construction
[00:37:56] <OdinYggd> It was within 0.002" at 10 feet of travel
[00:38:03] <yasnak> k, you win. thx for the lesson
[00:38:04] <Sync> your measurement might not be stiff enough but that's another story
[00:38:06] <OdinYggd> using helical rack & pinion drives
[00:38:09] <toastyde2th> high precision machines have low hysteresis but usually can't handle the cutting loads
[00:38:11] <yasnak> wow sync
[00:38:15] <yasnak> thats what i was just saying haha
[00:38:15] <XXCoder> toasty yeah cant build silk purse with crude hair
[00:38:15] <toastyde2th> of bigger machines with more hysteresis
[00:38:26] <toastyde2th> so it comes down to "what do we need to do"
[00:38:29] <XXCoder> or polish turd heh
[00:38:46] <toastyde2th> not so much polish a turd, but they're two different types of machine for two different types of work
[00:38:53] <yasnak> you need to cut chips and stop wasting time ;)
[00:39:03] <Sync> yasnak: you were saying that the indicator would not resolve 1µ, which it perfectly can
[00:39:05] <minibnz> i want my turd to have a nice shein but not shine when you look at them :)
[00:39:10] <XXCoder> ballbar nice!
[00:39:24] <toastyde2th> to take an extreme example, the LODTM has near zero hysteresis because of its drive mechanism
[00:39:28] <OdinYggd> I can get 80" glass scales with a 1u resolution
[00:39:31] <toastyde2th> but can't handle any conventional cutting force
[00:39:32] <yasnak> sync that indicator would tell me jack shit on my machine. so we work on different things
[00:39:41] <OdinYggd> But the only machine I got big enough to carry that is the one with the 0.185" backlash
[00:39:47] <OdinYggd> Not worth the price tag whatsoever
[00:40:09] <Sync> it would also tell me nothing on mine, yasnak
[00:40:15] <Sync> that's what the interferometer is for
[00:41:00] <toastyde2th> so, why you can't use indicators for this type of work - the hysteresis is time variable, so you need to have the machine in motion to check the reaction. you can't do a static backlash test because by the time the indicator settles, the hysteresis is already settled out
[00:41:07] <XXCoder> what the heck
[00:41:15] <XXCoder> do ballbar use magnets?
[00:41:16] <yasnak> oh jesus christ, goodnight.
[00:41:18] <OdinYggd> Yes.
[00:41:19] <toastyde2th> ya
[00:41:33] <XXCoder> interesting
[00:41:43] <OdinYggd> Its a shame that little balbar and transducer set cost like $10k
[00:41:48] <toastyde2th> they're just linear scales with a ball bearing on each end
[00:41:50] <toastyde2th> that sit in cups
[00:41:52] <OdinYggd> cause I would make good use of it getting all the machines calibrated
[00:42:05] <XXCoder> wonder if its anywhere close to makable
[00:42:07] <OdinYggd> the bar was around 12" long
[00:42:22] <OdinYggd> and it had two magnetic cups, one mounted to the head the other to a magnetic base on the table
[00:42:39] <OdinYggd> you program the machine to move in a circle with a radius the same as the center distance between the two balls
[00:42:48] <OdinYggd> and the transducer records any variation while it does so
[00:43:08] <OdinYggd> Made a neat little graph showing exacty how out of round it was
[00:43:26] <toastyde2th> XXCoder, you can but the tolerances are quite tight and most people don't have the lapping skills to do so
[00:43:51] <toastyde2th> it's not necessarily "hard" but it requires a good amount of skill in some lost trades
[00:43:56] <XXCoder> OdinYggd: well just had an idea. if you use torson sensor that can output to computer, you attach string from center to spindle
[00:44:23] <OdinYggd> Its not torsion that you need though. The sensor in the ballbar measures tension/compression
[00:44:26] <XXCoder> it would have to somehow rotate freely without tangle and attach torson so it detects changes. far less resolution and accuracy though
[00:44:34] <OdinYggd> No, it was not free from tangling.
[00:44:44] <OdinYggd> Care had to be taken to keep the cable loose or it would snag and yank the bar off the balls
[00:44:49] <OdinYggd> ruined the data if this happened
[00:44:51] <toastyde2th> imo just use a lvdt
[00:45:00] <toastyde2th> and a vacuum air bearing
[00:45:09] <toastyde2th> if you're making one yourself, that is
[00:45:38] <toastyde2th> when we were screwing around with shit like that it was much more stable and much more accurate than the ones available for 10-20k
[00:45:59] <Sync> yeah I was gonna say, lvdt
[00:46:09] <Sync> the ends are tricky, but not hard
[00:46:19] <Sync> two magnets in them are probably good enough
[00:46:23] <XXCoder> how do it work
[00:46:30] <toastyde2th> how do what work
[00:46:40] <XXCoder> lvdt
[00:46:50] <toastyde2th> you have an inner and outer shaft
[00:47:35] <minibnz> XXCoder you could use a peizo sensor for it :) im working on a edge finder tha uses a peizo..
[00:47:36] <toastyde2th> on the inner shaft, you wind two wire coils - one clockwise, one counterclockwise. You feed a low frequency signal in from the ends, and drain it from the center
[00:47:43] <toastyde2th> 1khz works
[00:47:55] <toastyde2th> you then wind an outer coil that rides freely on the inner shaft
[00:47:59] <toastyde2th> this makes a transformer
[00:48:27] <toastyde2th> as you move the outer coil, it picks up the differential signal from the two counter-wound coils, outputting +V to -V
[00:48:54] <minibnz> XXCoder toasty even easier use capacitive sensing and the hardware is even simplera pic and your off..
[00:49:07] <toastyde2th> cap sensors are really bad for this type of thing
[00:49:11] <toastyde2th> like, amazingly bad
[00:49:30] <toastyde2th> they're good for shit like spindle metrology
[00:49:50] <Sync> hm toastyde2th, one could moglice the balls
[00:50:33] <toastyde2th> you could, but personally i prefer air bearings for everything
[00:50:38] <toastyde2th> they're easy to make, and easy to preload
[00:51:08] <OdinYggd> air bearings are amazing
[00:51:31] <toastyde2th> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tpx_vW4d9g0
[00:51:31] <OdinYggd> I can move around 20,000lb of cast iron on a hand crank
[00:51:40] <toastyde2th> spherical air bearings are not super complicated to make
[00:51:41] <OdinYggd> Leadscrew machine with air-lifting ways on it
[00:51:44] <toastyde2th> esp if you have a cnc lathe
[00:51:51] <XXCoder> dang
[00:52:01] <OdinYggd> The entire table of the machine rides on a 0.0005" air cushion
[00:52:02] <XXCoder> its sitting on nothing but air?
[00:52:11] <OdinYggd> Takes a pretty decent CFM to do it
[00:52:18] <toastyde2th> XXCoder, yup.
[00:52:31] <toastyde2th> what you do is cut a circular profile in aluminum
[00:52:37] <toastyde2th> and drill a shitload of holes in it
[00:52:44] <toastyde2th> then supply air to those holes at about 60 psi
[00:52:52] <toastyde2th> then, you bore or drill out the very bottom of it
[00:52:57] <toastyde2th> and apply vacuum
[00:52:59] <XXCoder> so thats similiar with physics demo
[00:53:11] <XXCoder> besides that vacuum part
[00:53:30] <toastyde2th> the vacuum is very important in spherical air bearings if you don't want to fuck around with lots of design iterations
[00:53:45] <toastyde2th> because you can get into a situation where there's too much cfm and the bearing bounces on the air cushion
[00:53:52] <toastyde2th> vacuum damps the bearing and makes it very stable
[00:53:59] <XXCoder> big one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muAt8WrLZ7A
[00:54:00] <toastyde2th> as well as giving you 30-50 lbs of preload
[00:54:34] <toastyde2th> there is one scary caveat, make sure there's an equal number of holes on both sides of the bearing and have a way to adjust flow
[00:54:34] <XXCoder> it keeps rocking on
[00:54:52] <toastyde2th> because if your air is unbalanced exiting and you use a fully spherical thing
[00:54:58] <toastyde2th> as the other half of the bearing
[00:55:07] <toastyde2th> it will silently spin up to a few hundred thousand rpm
[00:55:12] <toastyde2th> ask me how i know this.
[00:55:21] <XXCoder> oh dunno I think I know heh
[00:55:27] <toastyde2th> it is much safer to use the type of thing they've got
[00:55:33] <toastyde2th> which are not full spheres
[00:55:38] <toastyde2th> and thus gravity keeps them from spinning up
[00:55:41] <XXCoder> forgot what effect named but it can be scary
[00:56:11] <XXCoder> baseball pitchers love that effect
[00:56:26] <XXCoder> curveballs so on. sitiching make it wasier but smooth balls can use it
[00:56:31] <toastyde2th> yeah, same thing
[00:56:45] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM9vnEWmA1c
[00:56:54] <Sync> oh hm, but the airflow you need is going to suck with just holes toastyde2th?
[00:57:06] <toastyde2th> nah, you need relatively little airflow
[00:58:38] <toastyde2th> the physics of it are fairly straightforward but counterintuitive
[00:58:52] <toastyde2th> imagine you have a balloon
[00:59:05] <XXCoder> nice toy I want to build one
[00:59:07] <toastyde2th> if the balloon is sealed, you have a constant pressure and diameter
[00:59:13] <XXCoder> (recent video link)
[00:59:31] <toastyde2th> if you were to open a hole in the balloon, and let the air escape, obvs the pressure and diameter go down
[00:59:53] <toastyde2th> so if you were to inject air into the balloon, all you have to do is replace the air at the same rate it's leaving to have an equalibrium develop
[01:00:13] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acXvl-8xrBM
[01:00:19] <toastyde2th> and that's what those holes are for, evenly distributing air around a surface at the same rate it's leaking out
[01:01:01] <Sync> hm. so why do a lot of the commercial air bearings use that permeable graphite stuff then?
[01:01:47] <toastyde2th> because graphite is the best way to evenly distribute the air around the manifold
[01:01:59] <toastyde2th> there is a problem with hole/slot positioning
[01:02:18] <toastyde2th> it occurs more with hydraulic bearings than air bearings because of compressibility
[01:02:39] <toastyde2th> where if you push a bearing toward one side, the natural tendency of the fluid is to rush into the open space
[01:02:44] <toastyde2th> and thus the bearing would fail
[01:03:08] <toastyde2th> so air bearings actually have two stages to them - the plenium, and the bearing face
[01:03:39] <toastyde2th> the plenum has a higher flow rate supplied to it, so that no matter what happens at the bearing face, the air still tries to get out the holes that are being blocked off
[01:04:16] <toastyde2th> graphite does this the best
[01:04:28] <toastyde2th> holes do this second best
[01:04:35] <toastyde2th> and slots/channels do it the worst or not at all
[01:04:42] <toastyde2th> but slots/channels are also the most load bearing
[01:04:46] <toastyde2th> per unit pressure
[01:04:58] <toastyde2th> they also react faster
[01:05:12] <Sync> hmm, I guess I'll have to try that
[01:06:01] <toastyde2th> Precision Machine Design by Slocum has a LOT of information on the design of these types of bearings
[01:13:58] <Sync> oh I think I have a copy
[01:19:57] <Sync> toastyde2th: does one lap the bearing cup in to the ball?
[01:30:46] <ikidd> I'm trying to find resources on using CNC to build cabinet carcasses. Anyone have some direction? Searching CNCZone is a nightmare.
[01:40:20] <toastyde2th> Sync, ideally yeah
[01:40:28] <toastyde2th> you do not have to
[01:40:35] <toastyde2th> on air bearings, the critical part is the moving bit
[01:40:58] <toastyde2th> so the ball in the case of a sphere
[01:41:20] <toastyde2th> but any of the standard methods for lapping spheres will work
[01:51:50] <Sync> I suspect regular ball bearing balls would be ok enough for regular use
[01:52:23] <toastyde2th> they're more than good enough, yes
[01:52:44] <toastyde2th> but they make very bad laps
[01:52:57] <toastyde2th> great for bearing surface, awful for lapping
[01:53:12] <Sync> yeah the surface is too hard
[01:54:03] <Sync> but one can cast a negative from them and then lap a brass lap spherical
[02:02:35] <Sync> hm, I just played around with EDM graphites
[02:03:02] <Sync> some of them are actually pretty porous
[02:53:23] <toastyde2th> Sync, the issue isn't hardness
[02:53:57] <toastyde2th> the issue is that a solid surface makes a terrible lap because of hydrodynamic instability as it moves over the surface
[02:54:06] <toastyde2th> this is why laps are checkered/slotted
[02:54:25] <toastyde2th> you wind up making an egg shaped cavity
[02:54:32] <toastyde2th> if you do not have those lands/valleys
[02:56:07] <toastyde2th> it is, ironically, the exact same problem that using holes in an air bearing vs slots solves
[03:04:37] <Sync> uh, yeah now that I think about it
[03:04:49] <Sync> well, if you drill the holes before you lap you don't have the problem :P
[03:05:33] <pink_vampire> morning :)
[03:05:46] <tiwake> it is indeed 40min into morning
[03:06:41] <pink_vampire> here is 3:40 am :)
[03:07:18] <pink_vampire> I just finish to clean and oil the machine.
[03:08:14] <pink_vampire> and I clean every corner n the T slots.
[03:08:37] <pink_vampire> she look soo cuteee now.
[03:17:18] <pink_vampire> time to make some chips
[06:16:46] <minibnz> i am looking at belt drive conversions for my mill the metal gears are good and all but way too noisy..
[06:16:46] <minibnz> thinking T5 16mm wide belts would be nice, i have some pulleys kicking around here that would be good to use. just need to order a belt, unless i add a stepper motor so i can tap threads. if i add a nema34 stepper to the mix was thinking that would make tensioning the belt easier. would 8Nm be enough torque?
[06:17:36] <minibnz> and would the spindle motor also spinning the stepper cause any problems with the stepper driver? will the stepper being turned insted of doing the turning back feed the driver and blow it up?
[06:18:38] <minibnz> i have a spare stepper driver on my breakout board.. threads could be interesting and if its easier to add the belt drive then.. teh stepper cost is only $100
[06:20:34] <archivist> stepper to tap threads? wtf
[06:20:41] <minibnz> i am going for a 3:1 gearing ratio..
[06:21:04] <minibnz> i really dont think my spindle motor plus an encoder would be good enough
[06:21:12] <archivist> do you realise linuxcnc does solid tapping
[06:22:02] <minibnz> ridgid tapping yeah but i have doubts on my DC spindle motor being controllable enough
[06:22:21] <archivist> have the encoder on the spindle, does not need that many lines
[06:23:01] <archivist> dont worry, the Z follows what the spindle does therefore removes motor problems
[06:23:58] <minibnz> also my motor controller doesn't do direction i would have to add a relay or spend even more money on a VDF
[06:25:33] <archivist> chepaer and easier to fix/replace the motor controller than a mechanical bodge with a stepper
[06:26:21] <archivist> and the other benefits suddenly become available like gear hobbing
[06:30:07] <minibnz> yeah ok i will just go with the belt conversion.. will leave a spot for a encoder wheel and sensors but i doubt i will add them. spindle controller dont look appear to be all that cheap..
[06:31:24] <minibnz> if i keep going i should have just purchased a machine center all done. was not looking to save money but really its getting to be a bit too much and adding one more stepper would have benn about as far as i was willing to go.
[06:37:58] <archivist> what sort of dc motor do you have
[06:38:15] <minibnz> the stock one that came with the X2 mill
[06:38:29] <minibnz> i think its a 300watt DC brushed DC motor
[06:39:49] <minibnz> it has a gearing ratio of about 2.5:1 spindle speed was 3500 motor speed max is about 8500
[06:40:41] <minibnz> now i was going to add beltdrive with 2.25:1 ratio
[06:40:45] <archivist> voltage?
[06:41:56] <minibnz> sorry my bad 6000rpm and its a 230v dc motor
[06:42:00] <minibnz> 2.2amps
[06:43:26] <minibnz> i guess i could make one pretty easily
[06:43:59] <minibnz> halfwave rectify each phase to give me a easy source to revese the direction.
[06:44:09] <archivist> or something like http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Input-AC220V-Output-DC-0-220V-Motor-Speed-Controller-600W-/151807388755
[06:44:58] <minibnz> that would probably do the job
[06:45:39] <minibnz> even looks like it would be compatible with a mesa card for control
[06:46:25] <minibnz> which is another thing i have to upgrade.... man looks like i am going to end up spending another $2000au on all the parts i 'have' to add on as it is..
[06:49:17] <archivist> I used an old vfd and hung a 3 phase motor off the side of the housing
[08:04:53] <__rob2> oo, new screen turned up! ultrawide curved, that 40" 4k was a piece of crap
[08:16:18] <MrSunshine> https://fbcdn-photos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t34.0-0/p206x206/12516173_10154010348018648_152883117_n.jpg?oh=d6512027f5a95a464ba6a1c772896e29&oe=56EF7AFB&__gda__=1458548502_5ac8635c75b54e543ddda964d22fb3a1 collumn support for the X1 milling machine ... think its overkill ?
[08:16:48] <MrSunshine> 150x100 in 4 mm thickness those pipes, then a 20mm bottom plate and probably a 20mm front plate also :P
[08:19:26] <archivist> make your column as large a rectangle as you can fit in the space
[08:21:27] <MrSunshine> archivist: this is about as large as i can fit =)
[08:23:54] <archivist> effin expensive http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lambert-7500-CNC-Fine-Pitch-Gear-Hobbing-Machine-7axis-/252324454392
[08:25:54] <MrSunshine> and DAMN the diamond cutting wheels for stone for the angle grinder cuts cast iron like dirt =)
[08:26:21] <MrSunshine> https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t34.0-12/12064052_10154010230913648_845984188_n.jpg?oh=53ed4754ac6a2afa6660d393086496ba&oe=56EFB388 cutofs from the base plate i had ... the blade was still cold when i was done =)
[08:55:48] <MrSunshine> hmm, i wonder should i anneal the structure after i weld it ... as im going to mill some slots and stuff in it for the collumn im afraid everything will twist and do strange stuff =)
[08:59:06] <archivist> depends if you make provision for adjustment after bolting to column
[08:59:59] <MrSunshine> shimming i guess =) but i dont want it to bend when i mill it or something stupid =)
[09:00:33] <MrSunshine> tho heating that piece to anneal it can be a bit of a pita also =)
[09:01:02] <Tom_itx> cast should be heated to weld as well
[09:01:11] <archivist> I just bolted my column strengthening, no welding
[09:01:38] <MrSunshine> yeap no welding on this one =)
[09:01:45] <MrSunshine> more than the structure itself
[09:02:24] <archivist> I used angle rather than tube
[09:03:05] <archivist> I did plan another column mod that never happened yet
[09:04:47] <MrSunshine> nice thing about making a real solid collumn on this cast ironplate is that if i want to later i can add linear rails etc to it later and just lif of the little milling machine :P
[09:08:11] <archivist> and then I found this column off a drilling machine http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2015/2015_09_06_floor_standing_pillar_drill/IMG_1984.JPG
[09:10:29] <MrSunshine> oh robust drilling machine =)
[09:12:13] <archivist> what is should look like is bottom pic http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=drill+pd+pollard
[09:24:39] <CaptHindsight> √NachoBellgrandeMountainDewMUtillatorπ_6-fing-axis FTW, it's coming!
[09:34:37] <pink_vampire> it's make CHIPS!!!
[10:30:42] <CaptHindsight> its can has makes chips!
[10:46:43] <jdh> where's pete
[10:47:33] <_methods> drivin probably
[10:54:30] <jdh> I just drive by his exit
[10:54:49] <_methods> in fla or tn lol
[10:54:53] <jdh> didn't see sn astrovan
[10:55:06] <jdh> fl
[11:07:00] <Tom_itx> repete?
[11:15:19] <maxcnc> Hi all
[11:15:28] <maxcnc> has been a hard day
[11:15:40] <maxcnc> going home now
[11:16:00] <maxcnc> Linuxcnc is a great tool to work with
[11:16:16] <maxcnc> ;-)
[11:16:43] <witnit> have you heard about the promiscuity of linux?
[11:17:35] <Tom_itx> was he punching his timecard or what?
[11:17:46] <witnit> :P not sure
[11:42:29] <Deejay> moin
[11:53:59] <MrSunshine> haha that maxcnc dude is kinda special =)
[12:09:49] <yasnak> Its fun watching the gawker meltdown
[12:13:18] <Sync> yep
[12:17:45] <CaptHindsight> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sondors-thin-electric-bike#/
[12:17:51] <Duc> I doubt he will see much of anything from the gawker
[12:18:04] <CaptHindsight> $1,099,707USD total funds raised
[12:18:27] <CaptHindsight> really, yes, really
[12:19:05] <CaptHindsight> 350W motor. EU version is 250W motor. 36V 8.7 Ah Panasonic single-cell battery.
[12:19:20] <CaptHindsight> The frame itself weighs 4.2 lbs, the battery 5 lbs and the entire bikes weighs 38 lbs.
[12:19:30] <CaptHindsight> it's a tank
[12:20:03] <CaptHindsight> $500ea and up
[12:21:06] <Sync> the price is not that bad
[12:21:08] <CaptHindsight> I need to stop trying to help people and just start selling this crap
[12:22:19] <Duc> wasnt there another electric bike that was praised and raised a shit load but failed bad
[12:23:56] <CaptHindsight> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/wave-electric-28-mph-bike#/ maybe this??
[12:25:12] <CaptHindsight> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sondors-electric-bike#/ their first campaign raised >$6m
[12:25:55] <Duc> maybe didnt get into it to much but i remember there was a very big hype then it seem like a fraud
[12:27:18] <Duc> actually its the same bike as your link
[12:27:19] <Duc> https://www.yahoo.com/tech/the-storm-ebike-a-500-answer-to-gridlock-109526615029.html
[12:27:39] <Duc> https://www.yahoo.com/tech/a-500-ebike-not-so-fast-110086504619.html
[12:28:03] <_methods> yasnak: i hope gawker dies
[12:28:38] <_methods> i haven't laughed so hard in years, as i did this morning when i saw hogan won
[12:34:30] <Duc> http://www.famousfix.com/post/heather-cole-10234731 110 millioon to have sex with this
[12:34:35] <Duc> lucky lucky man
[12:37:12] <CaptHindsight> seems a bit high, is that for the night, weekend, year, decade?
[12:37:23] <_methods> and he destroys gawker
[12:37:34] <_methods> it's like the hat trick of sex tapes
[12:38:48] <Duc> CaptHindsight: hell I might have paid to have sex with that but he pulled the amazing reversal. He got bank
[12:39:49] <CaptHindsight> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/19/business/media/gawker-hulk-hogan-verdict.html?_r=0
[12:39:50] <witnit> "Whatcha gonna do when the Hulk train runs through you, brother!"
[12:39:52] <witnit> sue em
[12:40:48] <CaptHindsight> seems fair, the peeping tom case from last week was for only about half that
[12:40:58] <CaptHindsight> but it was awarded to a woman
[12:41:11] <_methods> she got $750 million didn't she?
[12:41:34] <CaptHindsight> so even in judgments women don't come out equal :(
[12:41:51] <CaptHindsight> wasn't it 55
[12:42:11] <_methods> go to a strip club and see how much money you make in a night compared to a chick lol
[12:42:45] <CaptHindsight> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/08/business/media/erin-andrews-awarded-55-million-in-lawsuit-over-nude-video-at-hotel.html
[12:42:53] <_methods> ah
[12:45:30] <CaptHindsight> yeah, time for a career change
[12:50:08] <CaptHindsight> √NachoBellgrandeMountainDewMutillatorπ-6-fing-Axis electric bike/sex tape
[13:08:28] <yasnak> i mean the reason they award 110 mil is because the actual settlement will probably be 10% of that
[13:09:00] <yasnak> at least from what I do remember, which sucks. i wish you'd just sink idiots like those at gawker
[13:09:48] <Duc> and 30-35 percent go to the lawyers
[13:10:36] <yasnak> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-avakrRUaU jimmy kimmel vs the dolt editor. she has such a punch-able personality.
[13:11:31] <_methods> as long as it kills gawker i don't care how much hulk gets
[13:12:07] <yasnak> lol ditto, not a hulk fan but definately awesome seeing these idiots cling to their sinking ship
[13:12:20] <_methods> i hope they all burn with it
[13:12:20] <yasnak> definitely*
[13:12:31] <_methods> they were held personally liable too
[13:12:36] <_methods> the founder
[13:12:39] <_methods> and his butt sponge
[13:12:49] <yasnak> is this a lawsuit against gawker?
[13:13:02] <yasnak> could they go after the actual individuals for slander next?
[13:13:06] <_methods> yea but the founder was held personally liable
[13:13:16] <yasnak> that would be awesome. and would it also make actual news agencies wake up?
[13:13:18] <_methods> and the editor
[13:13:36] <_methods> i'd love to see vox and vice burn too
[13:13:49] <yasnak> vox or fox? :P
[13:13:53] <_methods> vox
[13:13:58] <_methods> i don't care about fox
[13:14:03] <yasnak> vice has some 'alright' stuff
[13:14:07] <_methods> they're as bad as comedy central
[13:14:13] <_methods> i don't take fox serious at all
[13:14:41] <yasnak> anything political i tend to just research myself. news alone is worthless lol. otherwise vice has some interesting stories
[13:15:10] <_methods> you have to read 5 diff versions of the story to even get something approximating the truth anymore these days
[13:15:24] <yasnak> ugh, i need to program all these parts by monday but my level of determination today is non-existent
[13:15:53] <Duc> yasnak: what type of parts
[13:16:25] <yasnak> some 5 axis parts for a suture passer with four different versions. nearly done but the finishing ops take forever
[13:17:24] <yasnak> some swiss parts, citizen guys will be in monday as we just bought a parts conveyer with spider video cmm for lights out automation.
[13:18:39] <yasnak> some custom long parts ejector with video measuring system. seems cool but its custom. first thing i notice is that our new citizen freaking pisses out coolant. like the casting and doors aren't sealed. the entire floor is layered.
[13:22:38] <maxcnc> ghi does fusion360 got a linuxcnc post ?
[13:23:05] <maxcnc> on turning cam
[13:30:13] <CaptHindsight> who would have figured 20-30 years ago that Comedy Central would deliver more actual news than most news networks
[13:31:54] <CaptHindsight> _methods: is your issue with Vice the spin they put on stories?
[13:32:06] <_methods> yeah
[13:32:13] <_methods> all of them basically
[13:32:15] <CaptHindsight> it's a tough call
[13:32:20] <_methods> vice, vox, gawker
[13:32:26] <CaptHindsight> try to reach people
[13:32:28] <_methods> it's like a conglomerate of trash
[13:32:36] <_methods> masquerading as the media
[13:33:17] <CaptHindsight> how do you reach people that are no longer able to reason?
[13:33:28] <_methods> brawndo
[13:33:33] <CaptHindsight> they are used to just reacting
[13:34:06] <CaptHindsight> buy this, this bad, this good, Kim this, Kim that
[13:34:43] <_methods> at least back in the day you knew national enquirer was a joke
[13:35:15] <_methods> these guys spin their bat child stories like truth
[13:35:28] <CaptHindsight> most people don't even search for actual news and info
[13:36:47] <CaptHindsight> and the people behind the actual happenings don't want it on the news
[13:37:37] <CaptHindsight> i think it's going to have to crash and end pretty badly before there is any change
[13:37:41] <yasnak> usa is getting better but the older generations who still follow the US PR Dept. (our news) still weigh us down. no matter what political party, both do it.
[13:38:30] <CaptHindsight> I find it more and more rare to meet actual adults
[13:38:44] <CaptHindsight> they were around when I was younger
[13:38:59] <yasnak> whats an actual adult?
[13:39:38] <CaptHindsight> someone that no longer acts like a child or adolescent, emotionally mature
[13:40:02] <CaptHindsight> it carries on well into 60-70's now
[13:40:12] <yasnak> it seems more like an attention thing to me
[13:40:37] <yasnak> its like this whole safe zone movement, what the fuck is that all about? we're literally wrapping the world in bubble wrap
[13:41:10] <CaptHindsight> the bubble
[13:41:36] <CaptHindsight> the nanny state
[13:41:47] <CaptHindsight> makes it easier to control people
[13:41:53] <CaptHindsight> keep them conditioned
[13:42:09] <CaptHindsight> look around, who is pushing back?
[13:42:41] <CaptHindsight> consume and conform is the norm
[13:43:28] <yasnak> then there is the other side, we don't all agree but we all probably don't want what is happening to happen
[13:44:10] <witnit> the path of least resistance
[13:44:30] <CaptHindsight> don't want to work for it or sacrifice
[13:44:38] <CaptHindsight> me me me first and I want it now
[13:44:47] <yasnak> where is a good place to buy cheap-ER hydraulic flex-steel lines?
[13:44:57] <witnit> What do you get for pretending the danger's not real?
[13:44:57] <witnit> Meek and obedient you follow the leader.
[13:44:57] <witnit> Down well trodden corridors into the valley of steel.
[13:45:00] <yasnak> need some for my toolholders and the tooling companies sell the freaking lines for 100+
[13:45:57] <CaptHindsight> yeah, unless you invest in your own crimper
[13:46:11] <CaptHindsight> look for one on ebay
[13:46:19] <yasnak> ugh, i mean little four inch long 1/8
[13:46:56] <yasnak> yeah searching ebay, just wish i could find someone who sells them so i had part numbers so when they need to be reordered i don't need to googlefoo it
[13:46:58] <witnit> Often you can ebay an larger product which already has the items on it that you need
[13:47:01] <Duc> look for a hydraulic shop in town. Napa can make them also
[13:47:08] <yasnak> napa
[13:47:17] <CaptHindsight> http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ear-64151514erl?seid=srese1&gclid=COCSqvGuzcsCFdcagQodjH8FOw
[13:47:19] <yasnak> thx, using your dipstick jimmy
[13:47:23] <CaptHindsight> like this? ^^
[13:47:34] <yasnak> boom
[13:48:01] <Duc> or a hose shop I used to get hydraulic break lines custom made with SAE 4 fittings or anything I wanted
[13:48:07] <yasnak> any idea what these things can max psi to?
[13:48:17] <yasnak> i'm not worried if it blows, just wanna make sure it works haha
[13:48:33] <CaptHindsight> >140 psi
[13:48:47] <CaptHindsight> depending on the line >2k psi
[13:49:21] <yasnak> duc, we have a parker next door. i guess i could go there but i honestly don't know much about pipe fittings and such. they are just so expensive for everything it seems
[13:49:33] <yasnak> it would need to push 2k psi
[13:49:34] <CaptHindsight> heh 20 footer for $23
[13:49:42] <CaptHindsight> http://recstuff.com/trailer-accessories/trailer-brake-parts/252-flexible-trailer-brake-line/?gclid=CM_UzrGvzcsCFdU7gQodJnUNIg
[13:49:47] <Duc> yaska: do you have a sample line? cant hurt to ask
[13:50:02] <yasnak> let me pull the pn from iscar, one sec.
[13:51:49] <yasnak> http://www.iscar.com/eCatalog/item.aspx?cat=7006319&fnum=3433&mapp=TG&app=0&GFSTYP=M
[13:52:09] <yasnak> comes with custom crap on it sure, most i don't need. plus the lines are way too long.
[13:52:29] <CaptHindsight> 4" will most likely be custom
[13:52:52] <CaptHindsight> not much range of motion for most apps
[13:53:10] <Duc> those look like brake lines
[13:53:35] <yasnak> my thoughts too, but they're rated for 2000 psi. just didn't know what those summit ones would push.
[13:54:20] <maxcnc> Gn8 have a nice weekend
[13:54:42] <Duc> parker should have no problem making them
[13:55:36] <yasnak> you must get good pricing at parker. parker makes me pay just to walk into the door it seems haha
[13:57:15] <gregcnc> expert tapping advise https://www.yahoo.com/tv/mythbusters-gentle-art-tapping-164126372.html
[14:02:41] <witnit> lol god that was bad
[14:03:57] <gregcnc> IQ test https://www.instagram.com/p/BCoJDlSIIIx/
[14:03:59] <witnit> make sure you derp derp, oh i screwed it up and tapping fluid use plenty of it on this here plastic :P
[14:06:48] <witnit> tapping is VERY easy providing you start your tap perfectly centered with your hole and parallel of course
[14:07:45] <gregcnc> yes, but crappy hole + crappy tap + inexperience = failure
[14:09:57] <yasnak> wat
[14:10:05] <yasnak> u gotta use molydee on plastic
[14:10:40] <gregcnc> there is a clip of Adam spinning a 2 liter of coke on a lathe and it opens up. It looks hilarious, but I can't find it online
[14:11:16] <witnit> he had the tap at like a 30 degree angle
[14:11:30] <witnit> lel
[14:12:11] <gregcnc> good enough for TV
[14:13:24] <gregcnc> I saw a bank commercial last night featuring a machine shop and actually heard "helical interpolation" on TV
[14:14:05] <gregcnc> he was standing next to a lathe, but it could have had a Y
[14:15:18] <gregcnc> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SM8SxZ4rktQ
[15:04:39] <pink_vampire> hi
[15:08:38] <XXCoder> hey lady machinisy
[15:10:06] <pink_vampire> awww that cute.
[15:10:17] <pink_vampire> I made 3 parts today!
[15:11:21] <pink_vampire> and I have a problem with making Gcode for part for costume for someone.
[15:11:23] <pink_vampire> XXCoder:
[15:11:45] <XXCoder> nice
[15:11:56] <XXCoder> thats 3 more parts than I ever made with my own machine lol
[15:13:35] <pink_vampire> do you want to see what I need to make?
[15:13:53] <XXCoder> sure why not
[15:14:56] <pink_vampire> ok...
[15:15:11] <pink_vampire> http://i.imgur.com/gMC2FRw.png
[15:15:13] <pink_vampire> XXCoder:
[15:15:35] <XXCoder> making a pair of those eh
[15:15:50] <pink_vampire> I need to make 2
[15:16:15] <pink_vampire> but I have no idea how to make it on 3 axis machine
[15:16:25] <XXCoder> ball endmill
[15:16:31] <XXCoder> it will take hours to make
[15:16:38] <pink_vampire> the finish is not important.
[15:17:19] <pink_vampire> but how I can do the under cut?
[15:17:30] <XXCoder> other side?
[15:17:47] <pink_vampire> yes
[15:17:57] <swarfer> mount it at an angle to the 'undercut' just becomes a normal edge?
[15:18:17] <XXCoder> well hmm could do that side first so it could hollow it out but it remains a block
[15:18:56] <XXCoder> flip it, and it cuts the top, but leaving edges around so it is still held on, the 3rd stage of edge cut off using moving clamps around
[15:19:09] <XXCoder> might be good way dunno. im sure others has better idea.
[15:19:50] <XXCoder> be sure to facemill off a top layer first though so it is nice and smooth for flip over
[15:19:56] <swarfer> sorry, misundetrstood the shape
[15:20:28] <pink_vampire> try harder..
[15:20:52] <XXCoder> is that to me or swarf pink
[15:21:32] <pink_vampire> XXCoder: for swarfer
[15:21:36] <XXCoder> ok
[15:21:38] <pink_vampire> http://i.imgur.com/dVhG0ZY.png
[15:21:52] <pink_vampire> if I make it this way..
[15:21:54] <XXCoder> ah didnt see that inside curve
[15:22:24] <XXCoder> is inside supposed to be hollow?
[15:22:25] <pink_vampire> do you have any Idea?
[15:22:30] <pink_vampire> no.
[15:22:37] <pink_vampire> just the outside.
[15:22:38] <swarfer> wait, that is what I thought, if you tilt up the left side of that image maybe you can get at that undercut edge and still get at the right hand side as well
[15:22:38] <XXCoder> ah that makes it vastly simplier
[15:23:02] <XXCoder> block, cut that inside curve when it is set upwards
[15:23:06] <XXCoder> using ball em
[15:23:18] <XXCoder> then flip and it custs rest
[15:23:28] <swarfer> XXCoder has it right, do it from 2 sides
[15:23:35] <pink_vampire> I mean how to cut it without flip
[15:23:43] <XXCoder> if it was hollow it it would be vastly harder
[15:24:04] <swarfer> i see the undercut angle is geather than the angle on the other side so tilting won't go far enough
[15:24:29] <swarfer> cut without flip? you might try a disk cutter that can reach in under the edge
[15:24:38] <XXCoder> no such method so far I know. I suppose you could use disk cutter but shape will be rough
[15:24:51] <XXCoder> lol swarfer I was typing as you said that
[15:25:07] <swarfer> well, that depends on the radius on the edge of the disk, surely?
[15:25:10] <swarfer> LOL
[15:25:28] <XXCoder> yeah I saw very large ones, like 3"
[15:25:28] <_methods> wtf is a disc cutter
[15:25:35] <pink_vampire> I have 3" slitting saw.
[15:25:49] <pink_vampire> but I don't have the holder for it :(
[15:25:56] <XXCoder> pink_vampire: dunno how smooth its cut will be though
[15:26:11] <XXCoder> maybe first use em to make curve as seen from top
[15:26:30] <XXCoder> then use hmm slitting saw? to make inside curve
[15:26:35] <pink_vampire> I'm going to cut it in styrofoam
[15:26:52] <pink_vampire> then sand it by hand anyway.
[15:27:08] <pink_vampire> so I don't care much about the finish..
[15:27:14] <XXCoder> ah material does make difference, suggest state it ;)
[15:28:12] <swarfer> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oob9g5t3_ZM
[15:28:30] <XXCoder> too bad you dont have wire cutter pink_vampire
[15:28:41] <swarfer> _methods: see the video i linked
[15:28:59] <pink_vampire> swarfer: I have 3" cutter.
[15:29:02] <pink_vampire> disc.
[15:29:08] <XXCoder> swarfer: dang that is good one.
[15:29:10] <pink_vampire> but without holder.
[15:30:33] <swarfer> for cutting styro foam, a bolt may be a sufficient 'holder' (-:
[15:30:41] <XXCoder> I hate using anything that cuts in slot with hurco machines. they go to home on z rapidly when paused or stopped
[15:31:09] <swarfer> scary
[15:31:18] <jdh> all by themselves?
[15:31:23] <XXCoder> glad current job dont have any hurco
[15:31:24] <pink_vampire> XXCoder: sound like fun.
[15:31:40] <XXCoder> jdh: when I hit pause or e-stop
[15:31:51] <pink_vampire> wood holder will work?
[15:32:18] <jdh> auto moving on e-stop is multiple design flaws
[15:32:52] <XXCoder> actually not too sure on e-stop but definitely on pause
[15:35:55] <XXCoder> so far I figure you probably can glue syfoam on wood and mount it. first cut profile then disk cut inside curve then larger ball em to rough it out
[15:36:03] <XXCoder> then small ball em for details
[15:36:29] <XXCoder> maybe tiny ball em for tit detail
[15:37:06] <pink_vampire> I don't have any ball endmill
[15:37:20] <XXCoder> you should as its good for curved surfaces
[15:37:32] <pink_vampire> I know.
[15:37:57] <XXCoder> I suppose since you plan to sand it, normal em (as large rad as you have) is fine
[15:38:02] <pink_vampire> but it's going to cover with thick layer of latex.
[15:38:43] <pink_vampire> the smallest that I have is 3/16"
[15:39:09] <XXCoder> I meant endmill rad (how much edges curve)
[15:39:19] <pink_vampire> but I'm thinking about making holder from wood
[15:39:20] <XXCoder> not too sure if I am using correct term
[15:39:27] <pink_vampire> for the slitting say,
[15:39:38] <pink_vampire> saw*
[15:39:54] <miss0r|shop> my homebrewn' arboga cnc is up and running again. yay! :) "goddamn chinese power supply"
[15:40:04] <XXCoder> its very soft material, just glue it to wood, mount it, then cut it off from wood when done
[15:40:34] <XXCoder> just be sure it cuts and dont push material
[15:40:37] <pink_vampire> XXCoder: I mean the holder..
[15:40:52] <XXCoder> yeah I meant it too
[15:41:30] <pink_vampire> I mean wood slitting saw arbor
[15:41:55] <XXCoder> ah thought you meant use wood to hold stock for cutting
[15:42:21] <swarfer> pink_vampire: it will work for the styro so long as you do not turn it too fast if it out of balance
[15:43:00] <pink_vampire> I don't want to waste metal on that..
[15:43:11] <swarfer> must run vacuum when cutting else you will have styro dust over entire workshop (-:
[15:43:29] <XXCoder> heh it does get everywhere
[15:43:33] <XXCoder> static cling too
[15:43:47] <XXCoder> get some deionizer (or ionizer? forgot which one works)
[15:44:43] <pink_vampire> vacuum!
[15:45:00] <pink_vampire> swarfer: my macing is in the living room...
[15:45:20] <XXCoder> vacuum to suck em up and spraying ions so it dont cling on EVERYTHING
[15:45:21] <swarfer> mine too (-: my wife and I share it as a craft room
[15:45:46] <pink_vampire> she also into cnc?
[15:46:30] <swarfer> no, painting, sewing, sculpture, cards, beading, etc
[15:46:57] <swarfer> but I bet you the moment she sees the cnc move (stil under construction) she will 'have ideas'
[15:47:38] <XXCoder> pink_vampire: okay my research says ionizers will lessen static cling
[15:47:42] <XXCoder> use humidifiers too
[15:47:54] <swarfer> building one of these http://openbuilds.com/builds/openbuilds-ox-cnc-machine.341/
[15:47:57] <XXCoder> run both while youre cutting syroform
[15:48:14] <XXCoder> so clean up afterwards will be easier. I suggest paracile mask too
[15:48:16] <miss0r|shop> what are you cutting in styrofoam?
[15:48:26] <miss0r|shop> (i've always wondered what people uses that for)
[15:48:35] <XXCoder> body part for unknown use
[15:48:45] <miss0r|shop> ahh. alright
[15:49:00] <pink_vampire> http://i.imgur.com/dVhG0ZY.png
[15:49:03] <miss0r|shop> I have a bunch of modelling foam laying around (it came with a mill I bought) never used it for anything
[15:49:07] <XXCoder> I'm assuming for bloody bodies scenes all mass murderers love but without actual blood and bodies ;)
[15:49:09] <XXCoder> kidding
[15:50:04] <miss0r|shop> I do cut some acrylics thou - I hate it :) no good way to hold it down other than two sided tapem and it gets wound up in the endmill and I have to clean it up all the time
[15:50:08] <swarfer> 'costume' she said
[15:50:35] <XXCoder> miss0r|shop: im sure you can add some nylon clamps at some stages
[15:50:57] <swarfer> vacuum table! best thing for sheet materials
[15:51:03] <miss0r|shop> XXCoder: sure. but mostly when I cut acrylics its ~3mm thick. bit sheets. so hard to clamp it
[15:51:23] <miss0r|shop> and I do have a cavume tablem but if I have too many 'thru holes' it sort of looses its purpose
[15:51:28] <swarfer> you can make a vacuum table from a sheet of MDF, the stuff is porous
[15:51:43] <OdinYggd> http://i.imgur.com/FXZcU6c.jpg
[15:51:50] <swarfer> ah, good. just keep some sheets of paper handy and cover the holes as they get cut
[15:51:59] <miss0r|shop> indeed.
[15:52:08] * miss0r|shop just had a small heart attack!
[15:52:27] <pink_vampire> miss0r|shop: ???
[15:52:51] <XXCoder> swarfer: or kinky rubber sheets
[15:52:53] <miss0r|shop> I have the mill running a part in the background. The final pass it just did produced a massive amount of chatter! I jumped the 6 feet from my terminal here to hit the emergency button, but the run ended before I reached it
[15:53:01] <XXCoder> I used em at old work to seal holes as it was cut
[15:53:19] <miss0r|shop> Now I will clean the part and see if I managed to break it :-/
[15:53:33] <swarfer> yep, that will work fine, at the cnc router I have access to I just find paper easier to find.
[15:54:27] <swarfer> and we have plexi sheets for blocking off the bits of table that the part does not cover, even though it has 6 zones, they are big as the table is 1.3x2.5 meters
[15:54:50] <XXCoder> router I used to run has 4 "sectors"
[15:54:51] <swarfer> OdinYggd: dang that cat in styro balls!
[15:54:58] <XXCoder> can turn on or off vacuum
[15:55:14] <XXCoder> holes has set screws to block it off
[15:55:47] <miss0r|shop> I am cutting these 40x65x95mm mild steel blocks - milling them to size and milling two slots in each to accomidate allenscrews. Perhaps the 10mm carbide endmill just died on me :D it's the second block - the first one milled without incident
[15:55:59] <XXCoder> fixtures tgat go on it has vacuum profiles and holes so it can hold parts
[15:56:19] <swarfer> RJ-1325 http://ruijie.en.made-in-china.com/product/ZMOEakTdkoRF/China-CNC-Wood-Router-Machine-Rj1325.html
[15:56:28] <XXCoder> it works pretty good but for some parts it really sucks. I had to use monster duct tape to help hold parts.
[15:57:05] <swarfer> using HSM for low tool pressure?
[15:57:09] <XXCoder> swarfer: if it dont show price I cant afford it
[15:57:28] <Loetmichel2> uuups... just noticed that my bathtub laptop sat on the rack running idle (closed) for the last 2 weeks... bcause it downloaded and isntalled updatest and the fan began to revv up when i was taking a leak... must have forgotten to shut it down after the last gaming session in the tub ;)
[15:57:40] <swarfer> agree, me neither, but my friend runs a music instrument factory and lets me use the machine anytime
[15:57:50] <XXCoder> gaming sure
[16:00:15] <Loetmichel2> XXCoder: yeah, what?
[16:00:37] <XXCoder> just joke about using computer at restroom
[16:01:03] <swarfer> laptop in bath, brave....
[16:01:04] <Loetmichel2> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15208
[16:01:10] <Loetmichel2> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15205
[16:01:16] <Loetmichel2> XXCoder: problem? ;)
[16:01:41] <swarfer> hardcore! (-:
[16:01:52] <XXCoder> lol most I do at bathroom is read a ebook
[16:01:58] <XXCoder> my ebook reader is waterproof
[16:02:31] <pink_vampire> Loetmichel2: I need to make one now..
[16:03:19] <XXCoder> nice http://dceaglecam.eagles.org/
[16:03:30] <Loetmichel2> pink_vampire: tip: use some plastic board.
[16:03:42] <Loetmichel2> the wood dosent cope well with the water vapor and the wet hands ;)
[16:04:04] <pink_vampire> I have here 3/4" PVC sheet
[16:04:50] <Loetmichel2> that should do the trick
[16:04:58] <Loetmichel2> but thats heavyy, isnt it?
[16:05:46] <pink_vampire> no
[16:06:13] <pink_vampire> it's foamed pvc
[16:06:38] <Loetmichel2> ok then
[16:07:05] <pink_vampire> from home depot
[16:07:32] <XXCoder> nice
[16:07:56] <pink_vampire> 1' by 12' or 8'
[16:08:15] <pink_vampire> very nice material.
[16:14:34] <swarfer> right, falling asleep. goodnight all
[16:15:22] <miss0r|shop> -+
[16:19:34] <Loetmichel2> pink_vampire: i only know that stuff in 1/8" here in germany
[16:19:48] <Loetmichel2> never seen it thicker than 1/4"
[16:20:14] <Loetmichel2> i can imagine if its 3/4" it will be the perfect material for anything tub related
[16:20:50] <pink_vampire> http://www.homedepot.com/s/pvc+trim?NCNI-5
[16:20:54] <pink_vampire> Loetmichel2: ^
[16:24:03] <Loetmichel2> pink_vampire: nice. here in germany you only see "hobbycolor" or "forex" or "guttagliss" branded stuff in 1/8" in the home improvement stores. But at least in in all primary colors. And in some artisan shops they have white and grey in 6 and 10mm thickness. (~1/4" and ~3/8")
[16:24:45] <pink_vampire> Loetmichel2: call to sign makers supply
[16:24:52] <Loetmichel2> i used the 3mm (1/8") stuff for some things, its nice...
[16:25:01] <pink_vampire> it's the same material.
[16:25:08] <Loetmichel2> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14754
[16:26:02] <Loetmichel2> i even made a whole quadcopter out of it ;)
[16:26:04] <Loetmichel2> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4833
[16:26:46] <pink_vampire> Loetmichel2: it's look very well made!
[16:28:34] <pink_vampire> https://www.tapplastics.com/product/plastics/cut_to_size_plastic/foamed_pvc_sheets/342
[16:30:24] <pink_vampire> 10$ for 1'X1' 1/2"
[16:32:23] <Sync> raaaah
[16:32:32] <Sync> now I have the tap plastics jingle stuck in my head again
[16:32:48] <pink_vampire> OMG!!!
[16:32:51] <pink_vampire> wowww'
[16:32:59] <pink_vampire> http://i.imgur.com/aov5tyd.png
[16:34:42] <pink_vampire> 4 hours
[16:35:17] <XXCoder> pink_vampire: youre lucky its just 4 hours
[16:35:24] <XXCoder> curved surfaces is time-expensive heh
[16:36:13] <XXCoder> what cam you using?
[16:36:25] <pink_vampire> I'm not sure that can fit in my machine.
[16:37:27] <XXCoder> foamed pvc looks nice for couple uses I can think of
[16:38:31] <Sync> looks inefficient with the safety plane that high
[16:39:00] <pink_vampire> WOW
[16:39:19] <XXCoder> Sync: it looks to be around short distance up
[16:39:26] <pink_vampire> 250 X 250 X 130 mm
[16:39:49] <XXCoder> pink_vampire: other way would be sliced profiles that you glue together
[16:39:57] <pink_vampire> no way to make it with the slitting saw
[16:40:21] <XXCoder> say inch tall slices
[16:41:33] <Sync> XXCoder: still wasted time
[16:41:36] <Sync> it adds up
[16:42:03] <pink_vampire> I'm trying to experiment now
[16:42:42] <XXCoder> pink_vampire: in what dimensuon is it too large?
[16:43:42] <pink_vampire> the max travel of the machine is Y 170 X 450 Z 300
[16:43:42] <pink_vampire> mm
[16:44:02] <XXCoder> hmm yeah can slice part in middle of Y
[16:44:15] <XXCoder> use long em to create flat surface that side
[16:44:29] <XXCoder> glue 2 halves together after'
[16:45:44] <pink_vampire> I'm trying to see how I can make it with flip.
[16:46:44] <Sync> just part it in the middle and glue it together
[16:46:50] <Sync> it is a prop after all, nothing precision
[16:47:09] <SpeedEvil> props need good balancing, or you get horrible vibration
[16:47:11] <SpeedEvil> err
[16:47:19] <SpeedEvil> nvm - I thought this was #multirotors
[16:48:44] <XXCoder> heh
[16:48:54] <XXCoder> props and props
[16:50:29] <pink_vampire> even if I cut it, I have the under cut that I have to make..
[16:51:08] <Loetmichel2> SpeedEvil:hrhr
[16:51:31] <Sync> no, you part it so that you don't have an undercut
[16:51:41] <Loetmichel2> pink_vampire: i had same problem lately (machine to small)
[16:51:50] <Sync> http://i.imgur.com/dVhG0ZY.png part it in that plane
[16:51:54] <Sync> and everything will be fine
[16:52:07] <Loetmichel2> my solution: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16182
[16:52:38] <Loetmichel2> same principle here: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15931
[16:52:44] <Loetmichel2> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15934
[16:52:51] <Loetmichel2> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15937
[16:52:53] <Loetmichel2> ;-)
[16:53:16] <pink_vampire> this is SS?
[16:53:22] <Loetmichel2> aluminium
[16:53:53] <pink_vampire> it's fun to machine, but I like STEEL!
[16:54:12] <Loetmichel2> alu is good enough for me
[16:54:23] <Loetmichel2> and the chinese router doesent like steel at all
[16:54:33] <XXCoder> funny I hate steel I prefer alum
[16:55:19] <Loetmichel2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqXauMOhWos <- kinda riding the edge already feedwise
[16:56:24] <XXCoder> ahh so thats a way to mount limit switches
[16:56:34] <XXCoder> I have very similiar machine
[16:57:55] <pink_vampire> anther try
[16:57:58] <pink_vampire> http://i.imgur.com/yrjddyh.png
[16:58:08] <pink_vampire> 3/4" endmill
[16:58:44] <XXCoder> LOOONG one I guess
[16:58:57] <pink_vampire> 34 minutes
[16:58:57] <XXCoder> how large is it anyway, 4 or 8 inches tall?
[16:59:30] <pink_vampire> normal size.
[16:59:41] <XXCoder> ah 5.11 inches or so
[17:00:01] <Sync> pink_vampire: set your safe plane to something like immediate or whatever your program has, you'll see an improvement
[17:00:37] <miss0r|shop> you know the feeling, when you har cutting medium carbon steel, and the only cutter you have that has long enough flutes, is HSS ?
[17:01:13] * miss0r|shop is waiting for a new small heart attack
[17:01:35] <pink_vampire> miss0r|shop: all my cutters are HSS,
[17:01:59] <miss0r|shop> i usualy only use carbide if I can help it. they can take alot more beating :)
[17:02:58] <miss0r|shop> I have a friend that works at a place they make casting forms for hearing aids. when their cutters have run 125min, they are replaced, regardless of their condition/what material they've cut. the good ones he bring to me :)
[17:03:00] <pink_vampire> climb vs conventional milling?
[17:03:09] <miss0r|shop> climb milling
[17:03:16] <pink_vampire> for styrofoam..
[17:03:23] <miss0r|shop> ^^
[17:04:53] <miss0r|shop> anyone in here ever used a tormach mill? like the pcnc 1100? (I am seriously considering buying one)
[17:06:05] <pink_vampire> what do you have now?
[17:06:16] <pink_vampire> I have the G0704
[17:06:28] <zeeshan> miss0r: you should buy it
[17:06:32] <zeeshan> it is the best
[17:06:34] <miss0r|shop> I have a arboga u2508 I converted. and a roland DG camm-3 pnc-3100 desktop model
[17:06:57] <miss0r|shop> zeeshan: you own one?
[17:07:08] <zeeshan> hell no
[17:07:12] <zeeshan> over my dead body!
[17:07:19] <zeeshan> :P
[17:07:25] <gregcnc> what else have you considered?
[17:07:29] <Tom_itx> that could be arranged
[17:07:37] <zeeshan> haha tom
[17:07:38] <miss0r|shop> "it is the best" - sarcasm doesn't translate well over IRC
[17:07:50] <zeeshan> miss0r: youre coming from small mills
[17:07:54] <zeeshan> it is best for you :P
[17:07:55] <miss0r|shop> gregcnc: I've been looking on the used marked at a maho 500W also
[17:08:06] <Tom_itx> zeeshan you look at your lathe anymore yet?
[17:08:13] <zeeshan> miss0r how in the world
[17:08:17] <zeeshan> can you compare a maho to a tormach
[17:08:18] <pink_vampire> miss0r|shop: what do you want to make?
[17:08:37] <zeeshan> that's like comparing a noodle to a piece of carbide.
[17:08:51] <miss0r|shop> pink_vampire: everything :) whatever people order. at the moment I have a dayjob. but things are starting to catch speed
[17:08:52] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: i look at it as decoration
[17:08:54] <gregcnc> new tormach?
[17:08:58] <zeeshan> i cant wait to get it running after the car is running
[17:09:01] <zeeshan> 800 ipm !
[17:09:22] <Tom_itx> did you ever get the subaru back together?
[17:09:37] <Sync> your car will do 800 ipm?
[17:09:38] <Sync> noice
[17:09:44] <zeeshan> haha
[17:09:49] <miss0r|shop> gregcnc: yeah, that was the idea. they are pretty cheap compared to other stuff :) even used machines
[17:09:58] <pink_vampire> the only problem with tormach is the price.
[17:10:09] <miss0r|shop> o_0
[17:10:11] <gregcnc> in europe I would think there are far more option for rather compact used mills before choosing tormach
[17:10:11] <Tom_itx> and they're tormach
[17:10:12] <zeeshan> Sync: nop
[17:10:16] <pink_vampire> they say 8400.
[17:10:25] <zeeshan> my car can actually do 190,080 ipm
[17:10:43] <miss0r|shop> i would realy like a more sturdy mill. this arboga is struggeling
[17:10:47] <zeeshan> tom ive been working on my rx7
[17:10:56] <zeeshan> missor then tormach isnt the right choice
[17:10:59] <miss0r|shop> I have a TOS FNK 25A to do all the roughing work.
[17:11:02] <pink_vampire> but this is only for the basic version, if do you want the whole thing it's become about 14,000$
[17:11:19] <miss0r|shop> zeeshan: it must be more sturdy than an old arboga?
[17:11:20] <pink_vampire> I'm almost got the 1100.
[17:11:21] <zeeshan> the maho is like the tos fnk 25a
[17:11:25] <zeeshan> but 3 time more rigid
[17:11:32] <zeeshan> and cnc
[17:12:04] <zeeshan> miss0r i have a maho type machine
[17:12:04] <pink_vampire> for 14K you can get something much better.
[17:12:05] <zeeshan> mikron
[17:12:16] <zeeshan> and i really made this video as a test to see what it can do
[17:12:31] <zeeshan> im not even 1/2 way to its capacity in this cut
[17:12:35] <pink_vampire> I want datron!
[17:12:59] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70rd9fK-UGg
[17:14:02] <zeeshan> tom didnt you see what ive been doiing on the rx7
[17:14:06] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/2a5gj6P.jpg
[17:14:10] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/2XOX6ma.jpg
[17:14:13] <Tom_itx> not all of it
[17:14:13] <zeeshan> been wiring for almost a month now
[17:14:14] <zeeshan> lol
[17:14:15] <miss0r|shop> this my mill running a job right now: http://picpaste.com/pics/20160319_224624-ZhAa4XYu.1458424106.jpg
[17:14:24] <miss0r|shop> So I guess I can only move up from here
[17:14:34] <zeeshan> nice
[17:14:50] <XXCoder> zeeshan: was that test video good cut?
[17:14:54] <zeeshan> ya
[17:14:55] <XXCoder> I see its nice and smooth
[17:14:56] <Tom_itx> wtf is that bracket?
[17:15:04] <zeeshan> the only thing i fixed is the jerkiness
[17:15:05] <zeeshan> from it
[17:15:09] <zeeshan> im using a 3/8 cutter
[17:15:13] <zeeshan> i can do the same w/ a 1" cutter
[17:15:16] <zeeshan> but more doc
[17:15:20] <XXCoder> but I cant tell without touching surface and feeling vibrations
[17:15:21] <zeeshan> and woc
[17:15:36] <Tom_itx> rule of thumb, how wide a cut do you make on a cutter?
[17:15:37] <miss0r|shop> zeeshan: what mill is that ?
[17:15:48] <zeeshan> miss0r mikron wf21c
[17:15:54] <zeeshan> very similar to the maho 500
[17:15:57] <zeeshan> e
[17:15:59] <miss0r|shop> seems like a serious machine?
[17:16:02] <zeeshan> it is
[17:16:09] <zeeshan> no where as good as todays standards
[17:16:16] <zeeshan> but puts the tormach to shame
[17:16:16] * miss0r|shop is looking if something in that order is for sale here in DK
[17:16:45] <miss0r|shop> tormach just has a nice price (even with complete enclosure)... at the moment it is a bloody mess using my mill here
[17:16:48] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, rule of thumb, how wide a cut do you make on a cutter?
[17:16:50] <Sync> maybe a maho mh400?
[17:16:50] <zeeshan> Tom_itx i go as much as i can
[17:16:57] <zeeshan> to ensure no more than .001" deflection
[17:17:01] <Tom_itx> 3/4 width? full width?
[17:17:03] <zeeshan> for high speed tool path
[17:17:08] <XXCoder> zeeshan: though I do wonder why it goes back around the cut rather than just hop over
[17:17:22] <Sync> zeeshan: ever tried volumill?
[17:17:23] <zeeshan> XXCoder: its a mode iwas trying in mastercam
[17:17:31] <XXCoder> ahh just playing eh
[17:17:43] <zeeshan> sync no
[17:17:45] <zeeshan> but for 5 axis
[17:17:49] <zeeshan> ive heard it is best!
[17:18:01] <miss0r|shop> my issue: buying a used cnc mill for an affordable price almost ensures it to be damn worn and out of tolerance. unless you get lucky that is (my experience anyway)
[17:18:02] <zeeshan> it has full capability to do high speed tool paths in 5r axis
[17:18:19] <zeeshan> miss0r it takes a lot for these old machines to be worn
[17:18:22] <XXCoder> miss0r|shop: if you can rebuild you can get good one cheap
[17:18:27] <Sync> that is why you measure before you buy
[17:18:29] <Tom_itx> i'm curious how wide a path you can safely cut with any given cutter
[17:18:30] <zeeshan> its not like a knee mill
[17:18:41] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: id have to work out the deflection math
[17:18:43] <Tom_itx> in relationship to the doc as well
[17:18:43] <Sync> Tom_itx: 100% width
[17:18:45] <zeeshan> and genralize it
[17:18:45] <miss0r|shop> XXCoder: scraping the ways back to tolerance is something I would realy rather avoid :)
[17:18:51] <XXCoder> indeed me too
[17:19:09] <zeeshan> but i can tell you its a function of extension of cutter, width of cut and length of cut , feedrate
[17:19:10] <miss0r|shop> Sync: indeed
[17:19:12] <Tom_itx> how do you calculate deflection?
[17:19:28] <zeeshan> use fswizard if you dont wanna do the math
[17:19:35] <zeeshan> but its treated as a cantilever beam
[17:19:37] <XXCoder> Tom_itx: I'd guess 100% cut but make sure leave room for finish passes
[17:19:52] <Tom_itx> XXCoder, i'm not in the mood to guess
[17:20:00] <zeeshan> miss0r: remember that the machine had lubricated ways
[17:20:12] <XXCoder> Tom_itx: not asking you to guess anything just commenting that 100% width cut is bit rougher
[17:20:13] <zeeshan> that got a shot of oil ever 10 min
[17:20:22] <miss0r|shop> zeeshan: assuming it wasn't misused - I do see that alot
[17:20:43] <Tom_itx> so full cut width at what % of depth?
[17:20:44] <zeeshan> miss0r my buddy bought a deckel fp50cc
[17:20:49] <miss0r|shop> for that to work, people have to actively check oil levels once in a while
[17:20:53] <Tom_itx> half the diameter?
[17:20:53] <zeeshan> thing is huge
[17:20:54] <Tom_itx> more?
[17:20:56] <zeeshan> no noticeable wear
[17:20:56] <Tom_itx> less?
[17:21:05] <zeeshan> miss0r: the machine wont work
[17:21:07] <zeeshan> with low oil level
[17:21:10] <zeeshan> itll fault out
[17:21:16] <miss0r|shop> nice. I wouldn't mind owning a deckel
[17:21:22] <zeeshan> the only way to run it without it bypass the fluid level switch
[17:21:23] <miss0r|shop> zeeshan: depending on the machine
[17:21:28] <zeeshan> but then the pressure switch will not work
[17:21:33] <zeeshan> and itll fault out
[17:21:40] <zeeshan> that one is hard to bypass, because it uses time
[17:21:46] <miss0r|shop> I guess most higher end machines have a level switch.
[17:21:48] <zeeshan> *harder
[17:21:55] <Sync> I see greased up cncs all the time
[17:21:59] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=galm5_6SUcM nice climb cut vs convental cut demo
[17:22:02] <Sync> because the lube pump failed
[17:22:04] <zeeshan> my machine has 2 reduancy checks
[17:22:07] <Sync> and people just use grease
[17:22:15] <gregcnc> lines get blocked or broken
[17:22:16] <zeeshan> reduancy
[17:22:20] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, your video looks like about 30% stepover
[17:22:25] <OdinYggd> Some lube pumps have low level switches
[17:22:29] <zeeshan> i say something about the step over :P
[17:22:31] <Tom_itx> if that much
[17:22:32] <miss0r|shop> I once used grease... once
[17:22:33] <OdinYggd> A few CNCs have oil pressure switches as well
[17:22:41] <Tom_itx> i don't have volume
[17:22:47] <OdinYggd> If the switch is not made at least once every 7 minutes, the machine throws an alarm- although it continues machining
[17:22:59] <miss0r|shop> then a buddy of mine almost tackled me, when I was about to power it up
[17:23:16] <OdinYggd> It has to make and break the oil pressure switch once every 6 or 7 minutes- the cycle time of the pump
[17:23:43] <miss0r|shop> At the moment I will just settle on getting my surface grinder operational. (the picture I pasted was one of two clamps to hold down the mag chuck)
[17:24:09] <miss0r|shop> the former owner broke the t-slot where it was to be bolted...
[17:24:25] <zeeshan> tom i just popped up the program
[17:24:41] <zeeshan> its .375 doc , .075 woc
[17:24:51] <zeeshan> so 20% step over
[17:24:52] <Tom_itx> what size cutter?
[17:24:55] <zeeshan> 3/8
[17:24:59] <Tom_itx> 3/8
[17:25:01] <Tom_itx> k
[17:25:25] <Tom_itx> so full diameter depth with moderate stepover
[17:25:38] <zeeshan> here is the specs w/ the 1" cutter
[17:25:48] <zeeshan> which is a 3 flutter
[17:25:52] <Tom_itx> i have a reason for asking
[17:26:37] <Tom_itx> i was watching the students in the prismatic machining class do their models and they were coming up with all sorts of things for stepover and depth
[17:26:49] <zeeshan> 1" doc
[17:26:51] <zeeshan> .1 woc
[17:26:56] <zeeshan> 70 ipm
[17:27:03] <Tom_itx> so about 10% stepover
[17:27:05] <zeeshan> ya
[17:27:09] <Tom_itx> at full diameter depth
[17:27:26] <zeeshan> its the fastest way to cut in a lot of situations
[17:27:32] <zeeshan> and it also gives the best tool life
[17:27:45] <zeeshan> and believ eit or not
[17:27:48] <zeeshan> its easier on the machine
[17:27:53] <Tom_itx> one time we plunge cut instead of milled the normal way for faster material removal in some large pockets
[17:28:18] <pink_vampire> pizza:)
[17:28:21] <zeeshan> yea
[17:28:28] <zeeshan> there are some situations where plunge cutting is boss!
[17:28:29] <Tom_itx> full diameter depth with 10-20% stepover
[17:28:33] <miss0r|shop> i'm looking at this one: http://www.dba.dk/cnc-fraeser-maho-500-maho/id-1022144584/
[17:28:37] <zeeshan> but its not friendly for tool wear
[17:28:43] <Tom_itx> it saved alot of time
[17:28:46] <miss0r|shop> ~3800usd
[17:28:51] <zeeshan> miss0r nice
[17:29:01] <zeeshan> miss0r do note
[17:29:10] <zeeshan> that the maho was the lower end of both deckel and mikron
[17:29:16] <zeeshan> theres a few parts of them that are cheaply made
[17:29:30] <zeeshan> practicalmachinist has a dedicated forum for this
[17:29:35] <Tom_itx> i did the mold exercise in sw last night
[17:29:38] <miss0r|shop> indeed. I just can't find either deckel or mikron at an affordable price around here
[17:29:50] <Sync> well, it is not a toolroom mill zeeshan
[17:29:58] <Sync> but a lot of them were in production
[17:30:12] <zeeshan> i thought it was?
[17:30:17] <zeeshan> i thought anything that can go between horizontal
[17:30:23] <zeeshan> and vertical axis was considered a tool room mill there
[17:30:37] <Sync> not that I know of
[17:30:56] <Tom_itx> zeeshan if you were plunging into a pocket what would you do on your first pass for the above data?
[17:31:21] <zeeshan> which one
[17:31:25] <zeeshan> the 1" cutter
[17:31:30] <Tom_itx> either one
[17:31:34] <Tom_itx> 3/8
[17:31:36] <Sync> oh btw zeeshan, do you need Ti conrod blanks?
[17:31:42] <miss0r|shop> zeeshan: I have no experience with such a mill. Do I feed it standard g-code?
[17:31:54] <zeeshan> miss0r i cant unforutnately tell yo uthat
[17:32:00] <zeeshan> i never used the stock controller
[17:32:17] <zeeshan> there was a guy in here i forget his name
[17:32:22] <miss0r|shop> oh. you went ahead and used linux cnc or something like that?
[17:32:23] <zeeshan> but he converted his to linuxcnc relatively easily
[17:32:35] <zeeshan> he kept all the old servo drives
[17:32:50] <zeeshan> just changed the control from philips to mesa 7i77+6i256
[17:32:53] <zeeshan> -6
[17:33:06] <miss0r|shop> I think i'll do something simular probally... I have a 17" marina touchscreen, I might as well :)
[17:33:20] <zeeshan> sync what am i going to do with a con rod blank haha
[17:33:32] <Sync> machine your own?
[17:33:34] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: with a 4 flute cutter
[17:33:45] <zeeshan> i keep the ramp angle to 1 degree
[17:33:48] <zeeshan> cause im a wuss
[17:34:16] <Sync> miss0r|shop: be informed that you will need to get new linear scales if you choose to do so
[17:34:26] <zeeshan> and the feedrate is no different than conventional milling
[17:34:37] <zeeshan> why
[17:34:43] <zeeshan> i reused my scales
[17:34:54] <Sync> because the philips maho scales are a cunt to interface with
[17:35:02] <zeeshan> o
[17:35:06] <zeeshan> they arent sin cos ?
[17:35:08] <Sync> I have something in the works but it will take a bit of time
[17:35:10] <Sync> no of course not
[17:35:16] <zeeshan> what are they
[17:35:19] <Sync> $magic
[17:35:22] <zeeshan> haha
[17:35:23] <miss0r|shop> :)
[17:35:51] <zeeshan> its worth the work in the end
[17:36:03] <enleth> zeeshan: just saw your video, most of it is climb cutting - why?
[17:36:09] <miss0r|shop> gah... I was wondering why this run was taking so long... I am ramping down the contour here.. 1mm/pass... *sigh*
[17:36:22] <zeeshan> my only 2 cons with the machine is:
[17:36:31] <zeeshan> 15.7" x 15.7" x 15.7" table
[17:36:34] <zeeshan> i wish i got the bigger version
[17:36:36] <zeeshan> and no ATC
[17:36:56] <zeeshan> enleth thats the only way to cut?!?!
[17:37:00] <miss0r|shop> yeah.... I didn't think of that. I don't think this MAHO has that. I would realy love to have that aswell
[17:37:13] <zeeshan> my buddies fp50cc
[17:37:15] <zeeshan> is what i want
[17:37:18] <zeeshan> but i just dont have the space :(
[17:37:28] <zeeshan> that mill is sexy as hell in every way
[17:37:32] <zeeshan> back in the day it cost 350,000 usd
[17:37:34] <miss0r|shop> If I get a proper cnc I will toss the TOS fnk mill
[17:37:37] <zeeshan> he got it for 6500..
[17:37:40] <XXCoder> zeeshan: including actual sex? :P
[17:38:07] <Tom_itx> zeeshan with half feedrate you should be able to make a fairly aggressive ramp
[17:38:46] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: plunging is pretty rough on the tool
[17:38:51] <zeeshan> i havent mastered it
[17:38:53] <Tom_itx> i know
[17:38:59] <enleth> zeeshan: no problems with the cutter digging in?
[17:39:01] <zeeshan> im it can be faster
[17:39:11] <zeeshan> enleth its a cnc machine w/ ball screws
[17:39:18] <zeeshan> not a conventional mill
[17:39:44] <zeeshan> w/ climb milling the chip width is maximum at entry
[17:39:48] <miss0r|shop> zeeshan: this maho: do you think the propreitary controller has a build-in backlash compensator?
[17:40:01] <zeeshan> the tool rubs less (which is the worst enemy to the tool)
[17:40:11] <zeeshan> instead of shearing the chip youre plastically deforming it
[17:40:18] <zeeshan> you get less recutting of chip
[17:40:35] <zeeshan> miss0r thats the beauty of glass scales
[17:40:41] <zeeshan> you dont need any back lash compensation
[17:40:44] <zeeshan> you know exactly where you are always
[17:40:50] <miss0r|shop> ahh indeed.
[17:40:52] <Tom_itx> zeeshan what about plunging straight down over ramping?
[17:41:06] <XXCoder> yeah I noticed that if I let powder build up on cutting fiberglass, tools all die
[17:41:18] <Tom_itx> would be less tool deflectino
[17:41:20] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: i dont ever do it :(
[17:41:25] <Tom_itx> really?
[17:41:28] <zeeshan> ya
[17:41:29] <XXCoder> I just keep making sure there is TONS of coolant spraying to keep it clear
[17:41:36] <zeeshan> ive tried it in the past
[17:41:37] <XXCoder> so powder dont keep on getting recut
[17:41:41] <zeeshan> and the spindle loads go intense
[17:41:48] <Tom_itx> oh
[17:41:56] <Sync> #yolo
[17:42:19] * miss0r|shop slaps Sync around a bit with a large trout
[17:42:20] <zeeshan> if you had a tool changer
[17:42:24] <zeeshan> it makes more sense to drill holes
[17:42:32] <zeeshan> but i dont
[17:42:32] <miss0r|shop> that should be a standard response to that statement
[17:42:33] <Tom_itx> that was my next thought
[17:42:34] <zeeshan> so i stick to ramping
[17:42:37] <Tom_itx> i've done that
[17:42:39] <Sync> why miss0r|shop?
[17:42:44] <witnit> I wonder how common it is to just use air in coolant thru tooling when working with such materials
[17:42:49] <Tom_itx> straight ramp or spiral?
[17:42:51] <XXCoder> zeeshan: cant do predefined lengths with yours either?
[17:42:56] <Tom_itx> probably depends on the space
[17:42:56] <XXCoder> removable taper and such
[17:43:31] <miss0r|shop> Sync: your yolo statement; even in good fun, it should only be used by those with an IQ lower than the outside temperature
[17:43:34] <gregcnc> love helical ramping
[17:43:45] <miss0r|shop> 'rule of thumbs'
[17:43:50] <zeeshan> i was considering making a pallet on the table
[17:43:55] <zeeshan> and having the spindle come straight down
[17:44:09] <zeeshan> and make the pallet removable for when i dont need atc
[17:44:18] <zeeshan> but it seems like a bad idea cause those tools will collect chips
[17:44:44] <Sync> nah, I'm a strong believer of #yoloswag4jesus as ghandi already said
[17:44:50] <Tom_itx> make a sliding cover over it
[17:44:50] <miss0r|shop> i've seen a system like this - it had a lid over it, that was removed pneumatically when used :)
[17:45:19] <miss0r|shop> Sync: I dub thee Yolo $waggins
[17:45:31] <Deejay> gn8
[17:45:35] <miss0r|shop> nite
[17:45:40] <XXCoder> zeeshan: is your machine tapers changable? or only collets changeable?
[17:46:17] <miss0r|shop> hmmm... I don't recall it being good when HSS throws a spark
[17:46:43] <zeeshan> XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGOzQ8vXHwg
[17:47:37] <XXCoder> so it is what I had envisioned, why not just write down tool lengths and just swap and change numbers as needed?
[17:47:45] <XXCoder> "manual" tool change
[17:48:05] <XXCoder> I cant remember what those tapers are called bleh. something40
[17:48:10] <pink_vampire> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJIs0LihNPQ
[17:48:30] <pink_vampire> very nice trick
[17:51:04] <XXCoder> ah yes
[17:51:08] <XXCoder> CAT40
[17:54:02] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQpFIr88TfY
[17:54:05] <zeeshan> poor tormach struggling
[17:55:48] <bobo_> lso don't harm SynsmissOr as I have seen an read the early Maho CNC machines used Philips glass scales and Phillips controler, later machines used heinhan glass scales an Phillips controler. the Mh500 machine you ref (I can bearly see it) looks to be using a non Phillips controler and I wonder if it has been thus updated. a
[17:56:37] <XXCoder> zeeshan: dang that is small mill
[17:57:11] <zeeshan> poor carbide is chipped
[17:57:13] <zeeshan> buy the end of it :d
[17:57:41] <Simonious> smaller than this little guy? https://www.ghostgunner.net/ ;P
[17:58:19] <witnit> oh that poor wittle itty bitty little teensie weensie spindle
[17:59:37] <XXCoder> hole cutting isnt very nice to tool
[17:59:43] <XXCoder> chips colors is all weird
[18:00:49] <XXCoder> zeeshan: its olviously very hot as they had to use towel to change tools
[18:00:53] <Tom_itx> why would you start a test with a used endmill?
[18:01:05] <zeeshan> so you can make excuses
[18:01:06] <zeeshan> :D
[18:01:18] <Tom_itx> then he defends it by saying it was used and he didn't check it beforehand
[18:01:21] <Tom_itx> what a moron
[18:01:24] <zeeshan> lol
[18:01:27] <zeeshan> hes gotten better
[18:01:29] <zeeshan> since 2012
[18:01:41] <zeeshan> he has a dmg mori now
[18:01:56] <Tom_itx> mori are nice
[18:01:57] <zeeshan> 2014 or something
[18:02:04] <XXCoder> I dont mind having that small machine
[18:02:11] <XXCoder> I doubt I will cut much steel.
[18:02:24] <zeeshan> i fell in love with my machine
[18:02:29] <zeeshan> when i snapped a 1/2" c arbide cutter
[18:02:31] <zeeshan> in stainless steel
[18:02:36] <zeeshan> and it wasnt out of tram
[18:02:43] <zeeshan> :D
[18:03:06] <XXCoder> part is too rough
[18:03:10] <zeeshan> i need to learn how to machine stainless
[18:03:16] <XXCoder> deburr guys would give you words
[18:03:20] <Tom_itx> constant feed/speed
[18:03:21] <zeeshan> hjaha
[18:03:25] <witnit> stainless is a funny beast
[18:03:26] <Tom_itx> just don't stop
[18:03:45] <Sync> zeeshan: yeah I don't get that
[18:03:51] <witnit> minimize your number of starting cuts on lathe
[18:03:57] <Sync> they all start with a shitty tormach when they could have gottan a low end haas
[18:04:07] <witnit> once you dive, stay in the cut as long as possible
[18:04:11] <zeeshan> on the lathe i neve rhad a prob
[18:04:14] <zeeshan> on the mill major problems
[18:04:15] <witnit> edge wear is bad
[18:04:35] <Tom_itx> witnit, ever cut tungsten?
[18:04:40] <Simonious> we've got a low end HAAS in the shop I'm working in.. though I'm not allowed to touch it - which is reasonable, I've had no training on it. I do use the router table though.
[18:04:52] <XXCoder> Simonious: cgecking your link now
[18:04:56] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpVB0ouezb0
[18:04:58] * Simonious chuckles
[18:05:02] <zeeshan> this is the old lathje machining stainless
[18:05:06] <zeeshan> it cuts it like butter
[18:05:28] <XXCoder> lathes is noticable better in many stuff
[18:05:38] <XXCoder> it can hold very precise, cut harder materials
[18:06:27] <XXCoder> Simonious: abostely no context pictures
[18:06:42] <XXCoder> though I guess it is 1.5'x1.5'x1.5'
[18:06:48] <XXCoder> maybe uo to 2'
[18:06:54] <Simonious> probably smaller honestly
[18:07:03] <Simonious> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8FL_vgb01M
[18:07:33] <XXCoder> its clearly made for weapons. wheee
[18:07:44] <Simonious> true, but it'll take whatever code you give it
[18:08:33] <witnit> Tom_itx: nah i would imagine it would be very hard to cut
[18:08:39] <XXCoder> interesting but nah
[18:08:53] * Simonious agrees
[18:09:07] <XXCoder> there is even smaller machines Simonious
[18:09:13] <Simonious> for PCBs?
[18:09:15] <Simonious> rings?
[18:09:15] <XXCoder> like that 5 axis that can basically fit your hand
[18:09:37] <XXCoder> its called pocket nc
[18:09:45] <XXCoder> overpriced pos
[18:09:56] * Simonious chuckles
[18:10:24] <Simonious> don't tell me about crap, tell me about good stuff, so I can add it to my notes - that way when I get to a point where it makes sense to get my own I know what to keep my eyes open for.
[18:11:06] <XXCoder> yeah though it depends on your needs
[18:11:22] <XXCoder> if you're runnign wood only say nearly any machine works if it can fit
[18:11:29] * Simonious nods
[18:11:32] <Simonious> that is all I'm doing right now
[18:11:34] <XXCoder> while stainless steel you need good one
[18:11:45] <XXCoder> inocel yeah tough bastard metal
[18:12:14] <Simonious> I'd love to move up in the world though, but I should probably have a little more education before I start throwing bits at hunks of steel.
[18:12:32] <XXCoder> so far I have ran weird alloy nylons, alum, steel, stainless, inocel
[18:12:43] <Simonious> I do a few plastics now and then
[18:12:48] <Simonious> and a tiny bit of aluminum
[18:13:05] <XXCoder> hardest to easiest is inocel, stainless, fiberglass, nylon, alum
[18:13:22] <XXCoder> nylon has glass and steel powder mixed in, it eats tools faster than alum
[18:13:32] <XXCoder> hell it eats tools faster than steel sometmes
[18:14:03] <XXCoder> lol wonder if any good http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Axis-CNC-3040-Table-Column-Type-Engraving-Machine-High-pricision-Ball-Screw-/251354772530
[18:14:28] <Tom_itx> witnit we machined a bunch of it for wing ballast back when i was helping my bud
[18:14:34] <Tom_itx> talk about a PITA
[18:14:43] <XXCoder> Tom_itx: I make a lot of inocel wing weights
[18:14:53] <XXCoder> and yes it is bastard metal
[18:15:39] <Simonious> XXCoder: neat, looks like it has a 4th axis there
[18:15:41] <XXCoder> it is nickel alloy after akl
[18:15:46] <XXCoder> Simonious: its 5 axis
[18:16:06] <Simonious> XXCoder: ahh, I see it now
[18:16:10] <XXCoder> quality is unknown
[18:16:25] <XXCoder> as its china probably not WOW but workable.
[18:16:44] <Simonious> I'm not in the market at the moment - got to get a place built to put one before I get/build one. Thankfully I can use the ones at work as much as I like for personal projects.
[18:17:03] <Simonious> sadly.. I'm only signed off on the manual mill and the 3-axis router table
[18:17:03] <XXCoder> same for me, though machines always run so basically zero chance lol
[18:17:20] <Simonious> ha! I can get in here almost always
[18:17:31] <Simonious> even if I were allowed to touch the HAAS, it's only 3 axis.
[18:17:51] <XXCoder> myself I run old fadal, "new" fadal, couple japanese mill machines, couple lathes (lathes I cant setup or even change settings just insert push button)
[18:18:14] <Tom_itx> 6040?
[18:18:17] <XXCoder> largest I ran is that giant HAAS mills
[18:18:22] <Simonious> we aren't a production shop though, just a prototype shop, so our machines don't run a lot.
[18:18:39] <XXCoder> I had to gey in and out to insert parts (its very bad job for that machine, normally ran at old fadal)
[18:19:07] <XXCoder> Tom_itx: it says 3040
[18:19:32] <Simonious> oh.. those Chinese 3040s are supposed to be reasonable machines, aren't they?
[18:19:42] <XXCoder> chinese model # never make any damn sense
[18:19:50] <XXCoder> my 3040 is a router, that one is 5 axis mill.
[18:20:01] <Tom_itx> i always considered fadal to be fairly lightweight
[18:20:05] <Simonious> fair point
[18:20:20] <Tom_itx> i know you can run steel on them but i've also seen em run to death
[18:20:44] <Tom_itx> with that said, if one showed up in my drive i'd take it
[18:20:52] <Simonious> :)
[18:21:31] <Tom_itx> okuma are nice
[18:22:34] <CaptHindsight> I have a Chinese 3045 router.
[18:22:49] <Simonious> CaptHindsight: and would you be tempted by that 5-axis?
[18:23:25] <CaptHindsight> Simonious: it depends on who makes it
[18:23:41] <XXCoder> Tom_itx: for me I like older 88 model but then those has pretty bad backlashes
[18:23:45] <CaptHindsight> I rebuilt several that were total crap right out of the box
[18:23:47] <Simonious> CaptHindsight: oh.. I thouht the 3040 type machines were all made by the same place
[18:23:54] <CaptHindsight> nah
[18:24:00] <CaptHindsight> several Chinese sources
[18:24:12] <CaptHindsight> brown/red oxide fasteners
[18:24:13] <jdh> chinese knockoffs of chinese routers
[18:24:18] <XXCoder> yeah thats why I said chinese branding and model numbers never make sense
[18:24:28] <XXCoder> chinese make knockoffs of each other stuff too
[18:24:29] <CaptHindsight> crunchy bearings
[18:24:35] <XXCoder> knockoffs of knockoffs
[18:24:42] <XXCoder> knockoffs all way down
[18:24:46] <CaptHindsight> no therads on the screws for setting preload
[18:25:01] <jdh> I have done nothing to my chinese 6040. Still runs as delivered
[18:25:07] <CaptHindsight> I'm going to make a 6 axis
[18:25:12] <Simonious> ?!
[18:25:15] <CaptHindsight> a poopstarter it
[18:25:27] <XXCoder> so what does 6th axis do
[18:25:32] <CaptHindsight> √NachoBellgrandeMountainDewMutillatorπ-6-fing-Axis
[18:25:34] <Simonious> travels thorugh time
[18:25:35] <XXCoder> rotate machine itself? ;)
[18:25:52] <CaptHindsight> it might spew red ink around the room
[18:25:55] <XXCoder> Simonious: nah that would be 3d +1 machine.
[18:25:56] <jdh> it goes to 11
[18:25:58] <CaptHindsight> haven't decided yet
[18:26:15] <Simonious> it turns the part insideout so it's easy to mill the inside.
[18:26:22] <XXCoder> Simonious: I want true 4d machine (no, 4th dimension is not time)
[18:27:06] <Simonious> XXCoder: I pretty much only think of the 4th dimension in terms of 3 dimensions folded on itself..
[18:27:10] <CaptHindsight> being completely assembled from threaded rods if they twist enough they might qualify as the 6th axis
[18:27:25] * Simonious laughs
[18:27:29] <CaptHindsight> dynamic 6th axis machine frame
[18:27:30] <Simonious> taking shots at reprap?
[18:27:48] <CaptHindsight> no, it's a new invention
[18:27:48] <XXCoder> Simonious: think of it this way. 3d is just direction T to other 2. 4th is just direction T to all other 3 directions
[18:28:03] <CaptHindsight> not a copy of an invention claiming to be a new invention
[18:28:06] <Simonious> oh I know.. I've got the engineering degree, I'm just not a machinest.
[18:28:22] <Simonious> *machinist
[18:28:25] <XXCoder> Simonious: ok making sure :) had people misunderstand me many times.
[18:28:32] <CaptHindsight> masochist
[18:28:54] <XXCoder> though its fun to think about strange 4d shapes. cylnder with cross section of spheres
[18:29:12] <XXCoder> mill machine that can make interior structure without making external holes in 3d object
[18:29:15] <Simonious> sure.. it's fun, but I mostly fail at it.
[18:29:17] <CaptHindsight> Simonious: I'd use that 5-axis router for food products such as cheese and chocolate
[18:29:29] <Simonious> CaptHindsight: what the heck?
[18:29:46] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight you're supposed to print those
[18:29:49] <Simonious> so.. crappy machine eh?
[18:29:54] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: no i got better idea for your kickstarter. addive-subtractive mill machine in affordable prices
[18:29:57] <XXCoder> say $2000 or so
[18:29:59] <jdh> pink paste, make decorative meat cakes
[18:30:08] <CaptHindsight> if you rework it then it might handle aluminum sheet at best
[18:31:02] <Tom_itx> so how the heck are we gonna know when petefromtn is back since he's not in tn no more
[18:31:26] <Tom_itx> i'm sure we'll know....
[18:31:26] <CaptHindsight> I'm sure he will find some way of contacting us
[18:32:01] <CaptHindsight> wifi from trailer park
[18:32:02] <Tom_itx> the one i miss is danimal
[18:32:14] <Tom_itx> he was making TI bike parts
[18:32:19] <Tom_itx> then just dissappeared
[18:32:25] <jdh> I thought he was just driving down for some delivery then heading back to .tn.us
[18:32:25] <CaptHindsight> coffee shop etc
[18:33:02] <Tom_itx> jdh i think they close on the house fairly soon
[18:33:48] <jdh> he could just irc from his phone while driving down I95, that's what I do.
[18:34:32] <jdh> hope he wasn't unloading machines today, it was pouring down here
[18:35:11] <Sync> yeah the sebring 12h got red flagged multiple times
[18:41:28] <CaptHindsight> I had a workstation installed in the bathroom so I don't lose a single line in IRC
[18:41:50] <Simonious> Just keep gems like that to yourself.
[18:41:51] <jdh> screen or tmux
[18:41:58] <CaptHindsight> lol
[18:42:02] <jdh> I can connect from anywhere
[18:42:17] <Simonious> I use a screen session that I'm connected to on 2 or 3 machines
[18:43:21] <jdh> -x? I dislike that
[18:43:25] <jdh> I just -d -r
[18:43:32] <Simonious> yeah -x
[18:43:50] <jdh> I use different size terms and -x makes things weird
[18:44:09] <Simonious> true, but you can resize quickly to whatever term you are currently on, though honesty I've forgotten how.
[18:44:51] <jdh> my phone auto-logins with -d -r
[18:51:52] <CaptHindsight> Simonious: https://imagebin.ca/v/2TYvESEACWSs
[18:52:06] <XXCoder> holy shit nworse case of "white virus" http://afreshstartonabudget.com/5-tricks-to-help-me-keep-up-with-cleaning-and-organization/
[18:52:14] <XXCoder> text is almost as white as background
[18:52:19] <XXCoder> therefore unreadable to me.
[18:52:33] <CaptHindsight> they went from a few mm of lash to 25um
[18:52:58] <CaptHindsight> but they they still twist with any loads beyond engraving
[18:53:28] <Simonious> CaptHindsight: these are the 6040s or similar?
[18:53:42] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: man I'm almost tempted to send mine in to you to be rebuilt
[18:53:55] <XXCoder> because black anode finish is awesome
[18:54:21] <Simonious> that's not black anodized, it's plastic. ;)
[18:54:29] <XXCoder> lol
[18:55:13] <CaptHindsight> Simonious: 3045
[18:55:37] <miss0r|shop> g'night people
[18:55:39] <CaptHindsight> these were for non contact use
[18:57:40] <CaptHindsight> https://imagebin.ca/v/2apzmk7rpwvC had cameras for alignment as well
[18:58:09] <XXCoder> if you was to rebuild my machine how much would it cost lol
[18:59:04] <CaptHindsight> https://imagebin.ca/v/2aq0JWfJZfXK in action in the field
[18:59:52] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: for you $5K
[18:59:59] <XXCoder> wow so cheap lol
[19:00:02] <jdh> do it!
[19:05:39] <XXCoder> honestly mine seems ok just need to figure how to attach limit switches
[19:05:48] <XXCoder> and calibrate it
[19:06:06] <Simonious> limited switches are for wimps
[19:06:11] <Simonious> *limit
[19:07:03] <jdh> I still haven't gotten around to limits on mine
[19:07:07] <jdh> or vfd comm
[19:07:24] <Simonious> no VFD on the router here either
[19:07:34] <CaptHindsight> Simonious: this is the crap that comes in the box https://imagebin.ca/v/2aq2qZUtbOIM
[19:08:07] <Simonious> CaptHindsight: what am I looking for to ID this as crap?
[19:08:21] <CaptHindsight> they are dirty. rusty fasteners, dirt is in the bearings
[19:10:13] <XXCoder> strange because mine is very clean when I opened it
[19:10:22] <CaptHindsight> https://imagebin.ca/v/2aq3eWhTxbGY the ballscrews are just sitting there, flopping around
[19:10:27] <jdh> mine too. where did you get yours?
[19:10:59] <CaptHindsight> these were all from Automation technology/keling
[19:11:53] <CaptHindsight> all the lager ones looked like they were painted with a mop
[19:12:48] <CaptHindsight> lager/larger
[19:13:17] <roycroft> you don't like lagers?
[19:14:44] <CaptHindsight> lagers I like, it's IPA's I tend to avoid :p
[19:14:57] <XXCoder> weird
[19:14:57] <XXCoder> mines from one of aliexpress company
[19:15:16] <jdh> I got mine from yoocnc/carving-cnc.
[19:16:57] <CaptHindsight> http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20160318PD200.html Broadcom rumors say company is looking to phase out Wi-Fi chip business
[19:17:00] <CaptHindsight> woohoo
[19:17:24] <CaptHindsight> wish they would stay out of anything network related
[19:22:56] <Simonious> My feeling is that for most people buying a mill makes more sense than building one - even for a guy like me with access to a HAAS at work - you guys agree?
[19:23:37] <roycroft> it all depends on whether you like making parts or making machines
[19:23:56] <Simonious> well.. I do, but.. I'm thinking in terms of dollars
[19:25:50] <roycroft> if you value your time even at minimum wage it's certainly less expensive to buy a mill than to build one from scratch
[19:26:12] <roycroft> and if you have the skills to build a mill from scratch your time is worth a lot more than minimum wage
[19:26:32] <Simonious> roycroft: yeah..
[19:26:54] <roycroft> but hobbies are not about keeping cost down
[19:26:55] <Simonious> and while I could design a machine and build it from scratch I don't know as much as most people who design these machines.
[19:27:00] <roycroft> they're about doing something one enjoys doing
[19:27:13] <roycroft> so for the hobbyist it might make sense to build one from scratch
[19:27:21] <Simonious> so if I were to build one I'd be looking to copy something someone else has done at least mostly.
[19:30:19] <Simonious> The guy I work with here who runs the HAAS has built several machines and is currently building another one, it's VERY nice IMO, but he's got a lot of experience, lots of old parts and is half retired, so he has time.
[19:30:52] <Simonious> If I got him materials and models he'd cut anything for me, so.. that'd help a lot. :P
[19:34:02] <jdh> are there any cheapish chinese cnc control panels with plain monitor/kb inputs instead of the integrated controllers?
[19:34:47] <jdh> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/3-axis-cnc-control-system-for-boring-machine-NEW990MDb/32436340638.html
[19:35:06] <jdh> like that but biger screen, mpg, no 'controller'
[19:36:45] <XXCoder> probably cheaper make your own?>
[19:37:13] <jdh> money is easier than time
[19:37:16] <Simonious> yeah sortof, perhaps a compromise, buy one that has good bones and fix it u pa bit. ;)
[20:22:57] <CaptHindsight> jdh: how about this turd? http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-controller-box/axis-3-5-inch-cnc-controller-for-lathe-milling
[20:24:47] <jdh> something along that line, but with a 10+" display, no controller crap, just usb for HID and vga
[20:25:13] <jdh> and a normal 100ct mpg wheel
[20:25:22] <jdh> but, the price is good.
[20:25:56] <CaptHindsight> maybe FuYuh
[20:36:25] <Tom_itx> reprap control with a screen and buttons
[20:39:02] <CaptHindsight> jdh: Acer has 23" or so screens for ~$230 with multitouch
[20:39:16] <jdh> http://www.ebay.com/itm/182039888400 like that with touchscreen and most of the IO USB'ed
[20:39:49] <jdh> with a 23", you could have soft buttons for most stuff
[20:43:52] <jdh> CAD guy at work got a 4k 40" vizio for his center monitor, it looks surprisingly good for how cheap
[20:45:38] <XXCoder> sometimes multi montior is better though
[20:45:58] <XXCoder> I use 2 montiors and its great
[20:46:09] <jdh> he has 23" or so on either side
[20:46:19] <XXCoder> nice
[20:46:27] <Tom_itx> what does he use on the side monitors?
[20:47:13] <XXCoder> ipads retina displays with remove montior apps
[20:47:19] <XXCoder> kidding
[20:48:39] <malcom2073> Couple of guys at our work got the big curved monitors now
[20:49:34] <malcom2073> They're pretty nice, but they're a bit too... I dunno big for me
[20:49:38] <malcom2073> Much better with a couple small ones
[20:54:51] <jdh> usually when I go in there, he has pandora on the right
[20:55:10] <jdh> and our configuration management stuff on the left
[20:55:25] <CaptHindsight> walmart has a Sanyo 4k 50" for $450 on special right now
[20:58:59] <CaptHindsight> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=2RC-00CW-00003
[21:21:09] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: when I die then get buried, and stayed there few years.. I might consider buying some candy from walmart
[21:30:05] <Tom_itx> i'm following the surface demo in sw but ending up with solid bodies. is there a way to switch to surface mode?
[21:33:31] <XXCoder> what software?
[21:33:36] <Tom_itx> sw
[21:33:44] <XXCoder> solidworks?
[21:33:50] <Tom_itx> uh huh
[21:42:26] <Tom_itx> i see what i did
[22:12:15] <joem_> https://imgur.com/a/IMzHi
[22:17:56] <XXCoder> interesting
[22:17:57] <Tom_itx> what mill is that?
[22:18:02] <XXCoder> so still on progress eh
[22:19:35] <Tom_itx> 0704...
[23:16:07] <CaptHindsight> what will keep the coolant out of the motors?
[23:16:21] <XXCoder> no coolant.
[23:16:35] <XXCoder> honest answer dunno
[23:17:15] <_methods> honesty is the best policy
[23:17:50] <CaptHindsight> faddah, I canot tellah lie
[23:18:23] <CaptHindsight> did you know that GW had a Brooklyn accent?
[23:18:42] <_methods> it was the teeth
[23:18:47] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: maybe look up methods to seal off
[23:18:57] <XXCoder> see if one of em might work for your motors
[23:19:15] <_methods> you can't seal me off
[23:19:24] <CaptHindsight> looks up _methods what?
[23:19:28] <CaptHindsight> prevert
[23:19:53] <_methods> jack mehoff
[23:20:58] <CaptHindsight> Mi Ballzis Hari
[23:21:09] <_methods> haha
[23:21:16] <CaptHindsight> one of my favorite SNL sketches
[23:22:32] <CaptHindsight> https://vimeo.com/44169145