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[00:00:59] <pink_vampire> the roughness is 2 microns??
[00:01:04] <pink_vampire> SpeedEvil: ^
[00:01:49] <SpeedEvil> test that
[00:01:55] <pink_vampire> how?
[00:01:58] <SpeedEvil> put a .1mm wire on the thingy
[00:02:00] <SpeedEvil> measure its depth
[00:02:04] <SpeedEvil> Or a bit of paper
[00:02:29] <pink_vampire> my hair is about 50 -60 micron
[00:02:35] <SpeedEvil> Or that
[00:02:57] <pink_vampire> and it's look huge compered to the marks
[00:03:12] <pink_vampire> so I think it's about right..
[00:04:02] <pink_vampire> but surface finish of 2 micros marks it's acceptable?
[00:04:48] <SpeedEvil> In many cases, yes.
[00:05:17] <pink_vampire> for home machine..
[00:05:21] <pink_vampire> I mean
[00:05:24] <SpeedEvil> what are you expecting? you will rarely if ever get a finish you can see yourself in
[00:05:56] <SpeedEvil> Finish depends on tool condition, material, speeds and feeds, lubrication as well as machine
[00:06:10] <SpeedEvil> If you can't spec what finish you need, then ...
[00:07:53] <pink_vampire> I mean to you think that the machine that I have is better then the engravers like the X carve and such..
[00:08:33] <SpeedEvil> what toolbit were you using at what speeds and feeds.
[00:09:18] <pink_vampire> it was 3/8 end mill 4F and about 40-100 mm/min
[00:09:25] <pink_vampire> mild steel
[00:09:34] <SpeedEvil> what sort of depth of cut?
[00:10:00] <pink_vampire> dept of cut was about 0.3 mm
[00:10:19] <SpeedEvil> my understanding is the x-carve won't come close to that
[00:11:02] <pink_vampire> i took A-lot of small cuts
[00:12:09] <SpeedEvil> http://www.shapeoko.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=5040
[00:12:58] <pink_vampire> wow that it SHIT
[00:20:06] <SpeedEvil> To be fair - SS is probably a lot more problematic than mild steel
[00:20:08] <SpeedEvil> but...
[00:21:36] <pink_vampire> do you think I can cut ss on my machine?
[00:34:02] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvGP-gD5zFU - making a 4 jaw chuck
[00:35:00] <pink_vampire> why woood?/
[00:36:02] <pink_vampire> everything sliding all over
[00:36:20] <pink_vampire> I don't like him
[00:37:03] <pink_vampire> 8:40
[00:37:10] <pink_vampire> he say it!
[00:38:03] <pink_vampire> bottom line 8:40 - 8:50
[00:38:06] <Lowridah> shoulda at least used two nuts
[00:38:17] <SpeedEvil> The point is that the tool is not the point.
[00:38:35] <SpeedEvil> The point is understanding how you might go about doing stuff.
[00:38:53] <SpeedEvil> He made a lathe from screws, nails, shafting, and plywood.
[00:39:01] <Lowridah> yea bootstrapping tools is cool
[00:39:46] <SpeedEvil> And that if you properly understand the forces involved, you can use tools that seem inadequate
[00:40:19] <pink_vampire> SpeedEvil: but it's soooo cheap to get it
[00:40:40] <SpeedEvil> what?
[00:41:23] <pink_vampire> http://www.grizzly.com/products/5-3-Jaw-Wood-Chuck-5-8-Unthreaded/H8036
[00:41:56] <pink_vampire> http://www.grizzly.com/products/6-4-Jaw-Wood-Chuck-1-x-8-TPI/H8049
[00:42:11] <SpeedEvil> The whole lathe was under that figure
[00:42:34] <pink_vampire> for saving 33.95 you can kill yourself
[00:42:43] <pink_vampire> he is so stupid
[00:44:58] <Lowridah> makers gonna make
[00:45:31] <pink_vampire> he like to make stuff out of wood, even is it's stupid and dangerous
[00:46:51] <pink_vampire> just to see everything slid on the table and saw the belt vibrate like crazy was too much
[00:47:25] <pink_vampire> tool like lathe need to be fix and bolted
[01:04:08] <pink_vampire> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7K-pWJcd7A
[01:04:22] <pink_vampire> I need a Shapeoko
[01:04:29] <pink_vampire> my machine is junk,
[01:04:59] <pink_vampire> http://www.shapeoko.com/forum/download/file.php?id=3958
[01:05:09] <pink_vampire> pic of the finish ^^
[01:05:26] <pink_vampire> SpeedEvil: what do you think ^
[01:05:50] <Lowridah> i have a shapeoko 3 but i'm only maybe 20 hours into cuttign with it
[01:06:52] <pink_vampire> and how it's the surface finish?
[01:07:09] <Lowridah> i'm not sure yet, i'm still learning workflow
[01:07:12] <pink_vampire> you can get close to mirror finish?
[01:07:45] <Lowridah> i've only cut a few usable parts so far and haven't gotten the hang of CAM for finish passes
[01:07:51] <Lowridah> http://i.imgur.com/tptgP4w.jpg
[01:08:16] <Lowridah> the finish on that is horrible
[01:08:33] <pink_vampire> I can see that...
[01:08:50] <pink_vampire> http://i.imgur.com/Ky4Orum.png
[01:09:01] <Lowridah> i haven't picked up anything other than 1/4" flat endmills so far and can't really run it much
[01:09:13] <pink_vampire> this is the finish on my defective Z axis
[01:09:21] <Lowridah> it's a bit too loud and messy for my living room so i'm waiting for the weather to clear up to run it on the deck
[01:09:40] <pink_vampire> http://i.imgur.com/VtiL3GE.png
[01:09:53] <pink_vampire> this is the actual part
[01:10:07] <SpeedEvil> pink_vampire: why do you think you need mirror finish
[01:10:16] <SpeedEvil> very little machining gets mirror finish
[01:10:26] <Lowridah> i spent 5 minutes sanding that part in my pic and it's very nicely finished
[01:10:37] <Lowridah> i'd rather spend 5 mins post processing than an hour more on the mill
[01:10:38] <SpeedEvil> quite
[01:10:43] <Lowridah> and i'm only 20 hours into milling at all
[01:10:51] <SpeedEvil> very little sanding
[01:11:03] <pink_vampire> I know.
[01:11:17] <Lowridah> on my next big cut i may not even bother with a finish pass since i have power tools that i can use to do it by hand quicker
[01:11:39] <Lowridah> it's a wash since i still can't leave my machine unattended
[01:11:54] <pink_vampire> but I want to do 3d machining and jewelry stuff and you can't sand them down..
[01:12:46] <Lowridah> if i were doing really fine stuff i'd consider making a very small very rigid machine with a small envelope
[01:13:03] <Lowridah> but i'm still too new to this all to be real wise
[01:13:22] <pink_vampire> Lowridah: my machine is tiny!!
[01:13:38] <pink_vampire> it's a bench top mill
[01:14:17] <pink_vampire> [Imgur](
http://i.imgur.com/wWPij14.png)
[01:14:20] <pink_vampire> Lowridah: ^
[01:14:49] <Lowridah> oh yea that's way more capable than a shapeoko
[01:15:08] <Lowridah> likely considerably more rigid at least
[01:15:49] <pink_vampire> but my dovetail on the Z axis have about 0.1 mm of freedom in some spots.
[01:16:27] <pink_vampire> so as you push the cutter into the metal, it's push the Z axis to the side
[01:16:33] <pink_vampire> and it's vibrate.
[01:16:54] <Lowridah> tear down and inspect the linear motion for where the deflection comes from
[01:17:12] <pink_vampire> very easy to say
[01:17:36] <Lowridah> not really, i hand crafted each letter from a larger word
[01:17:57] <Lowridah> i dunno, that's what i'd do but i'm sure its a big task
[01:17:57] <pink_vampire> to fix that I have 3 options.
[01:18:26] <pink_vampire> 1 to send it to be hand scraped - cost about 3000-5000$
[01:19:03] <pink_vampire> 2 to find someone with larger machine and re-cut the dovetails
[01:19:33] <pink_vampire> 3 to remove the dovetails and install linear bearings rails
[01:21:00] <pink_vampire> I want to go with option number 3, but I'm still didn't figure out how to calculate the load in cutting process
[01:21:09] <pink_vampire> Lowridah: SpeedEvil ^
[01:22:05] <Lowridah> i only have experience with belt-actuated routers with simple linear bearing rails but they're easily user-servicable
[01:22:14] <Lowridah> i just can't imagine they're anywhere near as precise
[01:22:48] <Lowridah> i'm too new to it all to be of any use haha
[01:23:32] <pink_vampire> http://i.imgur.com/701peEs.png
[01:23:41] <pink_vampire> this is also from my machine
[01:23:54] <pink_vampire> do you see the poor cutting finish
[01:25:10] <Lowridah> yea
[01:25:41] <Lowridah> that's gotta be hard on the endmill as well
[01:25:59] <pink_vampire> it's just aluminum
[01:26:28] <pink_vampire> it's cut it very fast
[01:27:53] <pink_vampire> it was only 2 passes
[01:28:48] <pink_vampire> each pass was 1/16"
[01:28:59] <pink_vampire> about 1.5mm"
[01:29:04] <pink_vampire> Lowridah: ^
[01:29:07] <pink_vampire> 1000 RPM
[01:36:10] <SpeedEvil> Step 0. Try different speeds and feeds to see what it does to the finish
[01:36:18] <SpeedEvil> Before screwing with anything else
[01:36:58] <pink_vampire> SpeedEvil: but I can see the Z axis part move sideways.
[01:40:00] <pink_vampire> ?
[02:08:56] <CaptHindsight> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seppuku
[02:09:36] <CaptHindsight> or is it a slow death by hearing about this for the next several days?
[02:10:51] <CaptHindsight> is there a psych version of this that just kills the brain slowly?
[02:21:03] <Deejay> moin
[02:21:47] <pink_vampire> hi Deejay
[02:21:52] <Deejay> hi pinky :)
[02:23:05] <pink_vampire> CaptHindsight: but i'm trying to find a way to fix it
[02:36:13] <archivist> pink_vampire, adjust gib to reduce play...done
[02:37:14] <pink_vampire> but the dovetail cut very poor and crooked
[02:37:57] <archivist> nothing is perfect, deal with it
[02:38:04] <pink_vampire> so even if adjust it, it become loss in some spots.
[02:41:31] <pink_vampire> archivist: so I want to make it better, now if I take a cut I need to do it very shallow cuts and it's wear the end mill fast.
[02:42:32] <pink_vampire> ?
[02:44:28] <archivist> there is a minimum you should cut
[02:44:53] <archivist> less worrying and more doing
[02:45:19] <pink_vampire> I can cut max 0.5mm depth in mild steel..
[02:48:16] <pink_vampire> archivist: what do you think?
[02:49:16] <archivist> your expectations of finish quality are unrealistic
[03:03:49] <pink_vampire> archivist: the issue with the poor finish come because the freedom in the z axis, just if i make very shallow cuts (0.5mm depth max) i can get "ok" finish.. deeper then that it's start to vibrate and the Z axis block start to get push sideways
[03:04:22] <archivist> you are assuming your Z is causing finish problems
[03:04:33] <archivist> I dont think you are right
[03:04:44] <pink_vampire> i can see it
[03:05:01] <archivist> adjust the gib
[03:06:15] <pink_vampire> because instead of holding the cutter in fixed position it get pushed away
[03:07:52] <pink_vampire> now if i close the gib the bottom section of the Z axis is very stiff but the mid and top are loos
[03:08:16] <pink_vampire> archivist:
[03:09:24] <archivist> if you dont get it right the gib can self tighten as it is tapered, the end screws have to be tight
[03:11:31] <pink_vampire> i know.. but the problem come from the dovetails on the column
[03:13:15] <pink_vampire> there is 2 screws that hold the gib in place. both of them close up to the gib
[03:14:21] <pink_vampire> archivist: ^
[03:58:02] <bedah> hi, noob linuxcnc user here. did some mdi, used some of the python scripts to generate some pockets and texts. now i loaded a png and it takes ages
[03:59:31] <bedah> using debian 8 on my faster notebook, any chance to get linuxcnc running here, for simulation purposes?
[04:06:40] <archivist> slow python cam is just slow
[04:34:46] <pink_vampire> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24hHwV6SejI
[04:35:01] <pink_vampire> I'm sooo happy now with may machine!!
[04:35:57] <pink_vampire> my*
[04:36:04] <pink_vampire> archivist: ^
[04:42:58] <pink_vampire> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YQr-jDIFDE
[04:45:50] <pink_vampire> high speed spindle, and even power feed cutting aluminum.
[04:47:34] <pink_vampire> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK3z3miqIXI
[04:47:43] <pink_vampire> od grinder
[05:01:50] <minibnz> hey guys need some direction.. i am trying to configure a ATC... can anyone give me a quick rundown of how to configure it? i have found information telling me what variables hold the useful information, but how do i use them? do i use them in a python script or the classicladder..
[05:04:36] <minibnz> i found this
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ToolChangerImplementation
[05:04:36] <minibnz> but it says the details are out of date..
[05:14:59] <pink_vampire> I'm just replace the tools by hand.
[05:15:34] <pink_vampire> minibnz: ^
[05:17:11] <minibnz> yeah thats fine if you are sitting there watching it.. but i have a carousel that i want to use..
[05:17:38] <pink_vampire> I don't :(
[05:17:50] <minibnz> i want to automate it so i dont have to sit thee and wait to change tools..
[05:17:51] <pink_vampire> I have milling machine.
[05:18:22] <pink_vampire> what kind a machine is that?
[05:18:24] <minibnz> i also have a milling machine.. just need to make it use the carousel
[05:18:40] <minibnz> i have a seig X2 mini mill with my own carousel
[05:20:10] <archivist> you should find a few classicladder tool changer examples out there
[05:20:54] <pink_vampire> X2 it's like the g0704?
[05:21:16] <minibnz> archivist thanks... thats the nugget of info i was after.. i have no problem programming the classic ladder PLC
[05:21:39] <minibnz> Pink_vampire counldn't say i have never seen a g0704
[05:22:04] <pink_vampire> http://www.grizzly.com/products/Drill-Mill-with-Stand/G0704
[05:22:27] <pink_vampire> minibnz: ^
[05:22:48] <minibnz> yeah its just like every other mini mill out there..
[05:24:24] <pink_vampire> so how did you make the tool changer?
[05:24:30] <minibnz> only thing that changes is the color and length of the axis.
[05:26:10] <pink_vampire> how do you open and close the drawbar?
[05:26:19] <minibnz> you make a tray that spins that holds the tools.. and add a way to release the collet. i am using bellevile springs under my drawbar bolt. a ram/lever pushes the bolt head down and the collet open.. now i have to program the carousel to spin to the right spot and have the spindle come down to pickup/drop off the tool
[05:26:59] <minibnz> my ram also lifts the bottom of the spring stack so it does not put any pressure on the spindle bearings.
[05:27:38] <minibnz> similar to how hossmachine.com has done it..
[05:28:27] <minibnz> hoss does not lift the spring stack from the spindle but thats ok with him.. i dont like the idea of putting 1000kg of pressure on my spindle bearings so i added the lifting as well as the pusshing down
[05:28:30] <pink_vampire> you also use compressed air for that?
[05:28:42] <minibnz> electric actuator.
[05:28:53] <pink_vampire> cool!
[05:29:07] <pink_vampire> do you have a picture of that?
[05:29:18] <minibnz> i cant run a air compressor in my flat.. the neighbours would kill me the first time it cuts in, in the middle of the night.
[05:29:32] <minibnz> no pictures yet.. i might add it to my blog once it all works
[05:29:38] <pink_vampire> I have the same problem :)
[05:29:49] <minibnz> i have pictures of the carousel on the blog.
[05:29:55] <pink_vampire> blog?
[05:29:58] <pink_vampire> link...
[05:30:23] <minibnz> http://minibnzreprap.blogspot.com.au/p/x2-mini-mill-cnc-build.html
[05:30:42] <minibnz> its only a 3d model on there but you can see what i am working with
[05:32:10] <pink_vampire> very nice!!!
[05:32:16] <minibnz> basicaly this platter sits on the end of the bed consuming about 60mm of bed.. plan is to drive the bed to the end rotate to the desired tool and open the collet and lower the head then close the collet
[05:32:27] <pink_vampire> how the tool holder slide out?
[05:32:50] <archivist> minibnz, "being pain well"
[05:33:23] <pink_vampire> -1 deg!
[05:33:31] <minibnz> archivist ?
[05:33:45] <pink_vampire> I'm freezing!
[05:34:00] <pink_vampire> going to turn on the heater!
[05:34:38] <minibnz> a stepper rotates the platter and there is a oval track that pushes out the slides. that way it clears the tools either side.. means i get to have more tools on a smaller platter
[05:34:52] <archivist> minibnz, a tyop at the top of your page
[05:35:47] <minibnz> ahh i see thakns will fix that.. but it was a pain :)
[05:36:10] <pink_vampire> "and there is a oval track that pushes out the slide"
[05:36:26] <pink_vampire> I'm not sure what do you mean..
[05:40:00] <__rob2> how am I meant to line up seperate passes when cutting external threads ?
[05:40:12] <__rob2> this micro lathe has no indicator to know when to engage the feed
[05:40:45] <__rob2> only way I can think is leave it engaged, stop the lathe and wind it back while always engaged
[05:40:53] <__rob2> not sure if there is a better way than this
[05:41:55] <archivist> winding back is an accepted way
[05:42:13] <archivist> make an indicator first!
[05:42:16] <minibnz> __rob2 thats how i cut threads on my dads lathe.. leave it engaged, do a pass, stop wind back the cutter a bit then wind backwards, rinse and repeat
[05:42:39] <archivist> or just use a die
[05:42:57] <__rob2> make an indicator ?
[05:43:22] <minibnz> <pink_vampire> there is a plate under the slides, the slides have a pin that runs in the oval shaped track/groove in the plate, as the platters are pushed around they follow the oval track, this pushes them out on one side.
[05:43:31] <archivist> it is just a gear to mesh with the leadscrew
[05:43:42] <__rob2> what I meant is like this guy
[05:43:43] <__rob2> https://youtu.be/73E75eZU3Do?t=403
[05:44:10] <__rob2> hes got a readout of when to engage
[05:44:32] <archivist> yes that is merely a small gear on the end of the shaft
[05:44:43] <__rob2> ohh right, handy
[05:45:07] <archivist> helical gear if done correctly
[05:45:25] <__rob2> yup, might just look around for one ready to go
[05:45:42] <__rob2> how good is that usually compared to constant engagement ?
[05:45:49] <archivist> same
[05:46:33] <minibnz> oh thats what that little wheely thing is for...
[05:46:33] <archivist> cnc beats hand method by a mile
[05:46:48] <__rob2> no doubt
[05:46:59] <__rob2> not converted this mini thing
[05:47:37] <archivist> the multiple marks on the dial is because you can get away with 1/2 or 1/4 rev of leadscrew
[05:48:35] <archivist> or be a fraidy cat and always engage on the same mark
[05:48:53] <__rob2> yea - i'll go with the later :)
[05:49:02] <__rob2> at least untill i've turned out a good thread
[05:49:18] <archivist> or mill your thread
[05:49:29] <minibnz> if the therad is short i dont have a problem with constant engagement... for longer threads back and forth can get a bit tiresome.
[05:49:53] <__rob2> its literally an M5 on the end of some 5mm silver steel rod
[05:49:56] <__rob2> like 8mm
[05:49:59] <archivist> I added a handwheel to the headstock for one job
[05:50:17] <archivist> m5, use a die
[05:51:10] <minibnz> make a holder for the die in the tailstock if you want the thread really square :)
[05:51:56] <archivist> I use the tail stock to start it off square
[05:53:26] <minibnz> ahh jusst but it up to the tailstock
[05:53:30] <minibnz> nice..
[05:54:40] <archivist> some of the cheaper dies are terrible so even that may force it to be wrong
[05:59:02] <pink_vampire> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKBVx6QzTvE
[05:59:29] <pink_vampire> she have more tools then all of us
[06:00:38] <Sync_> how come?
[06:01:05] <Sync_> looks like a regular woodshop with a small electronics part
[06:02:36] <pink_vampire> she know what is a dado blade.
[06:04:58] <pink_vampire> maybe i need to make also a youtube channel..
[06:10:37] <minibnz> there is something to be said about hot chicks doing work :) its great..
[06:12:07] <minibnz> actually they dont even need to be that hot.. a chick that knows how to use the tools correctly is refreshing enough.. i just dont see enough of it..
[06:12:37] <pink_vampire> re send
[06:17:10] <pink_vampire> minibnz: I'm wondering now...
[06:20:03] <pink_vampire> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MVQFPNCdkg
[06:20:33] <pink_vampire> woww look at that finish with the facemill!
[06:23:26] <minibnz> yeah that is really nice... much nicer than the finish i get on my fly cutter.. that gets a pretty good surface its really shiny.. but not as good at that face mill..
[06:23:46] <minibnz> i guess it has a lot to do with the inserts.. as opposed to shaped tool steel
[06:26:49] <minibnz> i have just purchased ballscrews for my X and Y axis... going to a mates plae tomorrow morning to machine the ends to suit my mill.. hope that gives me some more speed..
[06:27:25] <pink_vampire> what do you mean you go there?
[06:27:55] <pink_vampire> the guy that sell the pm-25?
[06:28:27] <pink_vampire> so you think he can help me to fix the Z axis?
[06:29:32] <minibnz> no.. im going to my mates place to use his really nice lathe to machine up the ends of the ballscrews to suit my mill. he is a mechanical engineer and has really nice tools, my are toys in comparison.
[06:31:41] <pink_vampire> ok....
[06:31:44] <minibnz> my dad has lathe but its pretty old now.. i tried to use it for something not important and couldn't drill a hold in the center of a bar for the life of me.. gotta get that rebuilt, when it was new 20yrs ago it was great.
[06:32:03] <minibnz> head bearings are gone..
[06:34:02] <pink_vampire> I the only one in my family that like to do stuff. all the other not very technical
[06:36:10] <minibnz> my dad drove trucks for a long time, but every moment spare he was up in the garrage working on his 1928 ford.. now that he has retired he has not stopped building them.. he has four now.. and i just love building things. im a EE by trade but enjoy building things of all types.. working with my hands in general not so much the manual labour thou..
[06:37:48] <pink_vampire> I like to work with my hands but don't like to damage my skin
[06:37:53] <pink_vampire> so cnc :)
[06:38:02] <minibnz> everytime my parents would go off on holidays i would be up in the garrage building things that he would not approve of.. made a .22 pistol one weekend while he was away.. mostly out of welding rods but it worked really nice, just looked like somehting out of madmax
[06:38:49] <pink_vampire> OMG
[06:38:57] <minibnz> i have since cut that up in to little bits and recyled the scraps.. as thats really illeagal here in AU.. i have since got my gun license and now have proper guns..
[06:40:09] <pink_vampire> I don't have any weapon..
[06:40:19] <pink_vampire> red dress and heels?
[06:40:40] <minibnz> that pistol was great.. loud but great fun.. i modified it to take a plastic coke bottle stuffed with paper, to screw on the end. it would give 25shots dead quiet, all you could hear was the hammer and a little puff sound..
[06:40:45] <pink_vampire> my BF call it a weapon
[06:40:56] <minibnz> heheheh yeah that would do it..
[06:41:20] <minibnz> that would probably stop any red blooded man in his tracks..
[06:41:42] <minibnz> better than a gun :)
[06:42:30] <pink_vampire> I'm far from being a model
[06:43:35] <minibnz> dont got a be a model.. have a good personality and be happy with yourself..
[06:44:14] <pink_vampire> I'm not ugly or something..
[06:44:24] <minibnz> self confidence is a way better attribute..
[06:45:16] <minibnz> knowing how to use tools properly is a bonus :)
[06:46:29] <pink_vampire> i dont have the ideal beauty of blonde straight hair and blue eyes
[06:46:56] <pink_vampire> I'm not even ginger..
[06:47:35] <minibnz> oh ginga ninja's are weakspot of mine.. :p
[06:48:44] <pink_vampire> I have a loong brunette wavy / curly hair
[06:49:06] <minibnz> that still works too..
[06:49:17] <pink_vampire> long nails :)
[06:49:28] <pink_vampire> small body
[06:52:17] <pink_vampire> are you married?
[06:52:25] <pink_vampire> minibnz: ^
[06:52:38] <minibnz> no but have a long term GF that keeps me happy
[06:53:15] <minibnz> and she is gettin clucky.. not really sold on the whole lets have kids thing..
[06:55:00] <pink_vampire> send you pm
[08:22:26] <jthornton> morning
[08:32:44] <Deejay> hi
[08:39:18] <Tom_itx> morning
[08:53:40] <gregcnc> a friend of mine reground a table and slide off a chinese mill of some sort. He had to shim it several thousandths to get it close to true to fix the ways, then fixed the table.
[08:53:57] <gregcnc> the hand scraping was not scraped at all, but just to look like it
[09:02:21] <jthornton> two more days of rain...
[09:04:54] <Sync_> gregcnc: they just flake it so it looks like it is scraped
[09:05:00] <Sync_> but that is obvious from the start
[09:18:33] <OdinYggd> Its obvious by the surface quality and the number of contact points if it is scraped or not
[09:28:27] <Sync_> nah, with the chinese machines you still see the machining marks under the flaking
[09:39:45] <robin_sz> interesting ... there is now an FPGA dev baord for the rapi pi
[09:39:49] <robin_sz> *raspi
[09:40:59] <os1r1s> robin_sz There are a few of them
[09:41:08] <os1r1s> One for the bbb
[09:41:09] <os1r1s> too
[09:43:02] <robin_sz> a working stepgen should be possible
[09:45:17] <robin_sz> very please with my Mesa 5i25 and 7i77 install ... was quite straightforward
[09:49:09] <robin_sz> just need to solve the issue of being able to pause the thing now, with the head up
[09:50:58] <robin_sz> going to have a go at this first:
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Jog-While-Paused if I can gigure out how to apply it to 2.7.4
[09:53:02] <gregcnc> hmm what do you use it for?
[10:16:36] <robin_sz> gregcnc, router
[10:16:54] <robin_sz> need to lift the router head out of the work when I hit pause.
[10:17:16] <robin_sz> otherwise, Bad Things (tm) happen
[10:18:01] <robin_sz> dgarr, just to say thanks for the xhc stuff, works perfectly, much better than the last version I tried
[10:18:12] <gregcnc> makes sense. how often do you pause in the middle of a cut?
[10:18:12] <robin_sz> very smooth in jog
[10:18:30] <robin_sz> gregcnc, when stuff starts to go wrong ;)
[10:19:07] <robin_sz> gregcnc, I often have progs that run for 5 or 6 hours
[10:20:09] <dgarr> robin_sz: on 2.7 you might want run and study the simulator example for a fixed z retract,use the config picker to try SampleConfigurations/sim/axis/moveoff/6_zretract
[10:20:40] <dgarr> bbl
[10:20:40] <robin_sz> looking ...
[10:46:06] <robin_sz> hmm ... thats going to be pretty close to what I want .. a few things not quite in the right order, but workable
[13:24:10] <JT-Shop> I hate it when I have instructions that say "after removing the tape strips remove as much glue residue as possible" my brain translates that to "you must remove every speck of glue residue"
[13:31:01] <maxcnc> hi all
[13:31:18] <maxcnc> wonderful day first bikeride today
[13:34:33] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop: ocd much or badexperiences with former work descriptions?
[13:40:55] <JT-Shop> ocd
[13:47:13] <maxcnc> have a nice wekend BYE
[13:49:08] <Duc> Im somewhat wishing I would have just bought a roll around tool box to mount my monitor and control panel
[14:00:11] <_methods> that's what i did for mine
[14:00:26] <_methods> bought one of those cheap harbor freight roll around toolboxes
[14:01:59] <Duc> but now Ive invested to much in the new solution that should work fine
[14:02:28] <Duc> picked up a spare tire spindle for making swing out tire racks
[14:05:47] <Duc> Mounting the spindle to the base of the bridgeport then having a arm come out and then up
[14:06:32] <Sync_> meh, information about how to coat steel with ceramic is hard to come by
[14:07:57] <robin_sz> who would have guest?
[14:08:57] <Duc> what are you trying to coat
[14:09:16] <evil_ren> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_porcelain_enamel
[14:09:24] <evil_ren> there are two references
[14:09:39] <robin_sz> *guessed
[14:09:48] <robin_sz> I only know two ways
[14:10:00] <robin_sz> HVOF and plasma spraying
[14:10:21] <evil_ren> it cures on contact?
[14:10:26] <evil_ren> thats pretty cool
[14:10:43] <evil_ren> i would have thought it was some sort of spray and bake process
[14:12:01] <Sync_> Duc: exhaust piping
[14:12:02] <robin_sz> enamel?
[14:12:21] <Duc> think most times its like cerakote paint
[14:12:29] <robin_sz> you paint it on then bake at 530c
[14:12:31] <Sync_> no, I want thermal insulation
[14:12:41] <Sync_> I think I have the process figured out, but eh
[14:12:47] <robin_sz> wut?
[14:12:52] <robin_sz> thermal insulating?
[14:13:08] <robin_sz> enamel is not thermal insulating
[14:13:21] <robin_sz> its pretty much solid glass
[14:13:40] <Sync_> slurry spraying MgO with soluble glass
[14:13:55] <robin_sz> yep and then bake at 600c or so
[14:14:06] <robin_sz> but it wont insulate
[14:16:17] <robin_sz> the standard procedure on race bikes if the tuning is a bit low is to wrap the exhaust in asbestos/glass woven colth and wire it on.
[14:16:39] <Sync_> well, flame spraying would be the other option
[14:16:46] <robin_sz> yep
[14:16:55] <robin_sz> but it deposits a few microns
[14:17:06] <Sync_> but apparently MgO will produce high quality coatings
[14:17:16] <Sync_> with just slurry spraying
[14:17:20] <Sync_> and does not need any sintering
[14:17:28] <robin_sz> good luck with that one
[14:18:39] <robin_sz> if you build up any thickness beyond a few microns, its going to crack off when the pipes warm up
[14:18:51] <Sync_> well, it is what the local ceramic coating specialist suggested
[14:19:01] <Sync_> the CTE matches steel well
[14:19:16] <robin_sz> and thats before we get to the pounding from the exhaust pulses
[14:19:28] <Sync_> I did some thermal cycling on a few test pieces and they did not flake
[14:19:39] <robin_sz> well, let us know how it works out
[14:19:54] <robin_sz> I'll be very surprised if it offers any significant insulation
[14:23:10] <robin_sz> why don't you just test a piece ... heat one side up with a flame, put your finger on the other side, see if it works
[14:23:36] <Sync_> that is not the point
[14:23:58] <Sync_> if it lowers the heat loss through the wall, it works
[14:24:04] <Sync_> it might not do a *lot*
[14:24:46] <Duc> why not wrap the pipes with insulation
[14:26:05] <robin_sz> then just accept is is for purely cosmetic reasons
[14:26:28] <robin_sz> for performance, glass or asbestos wrap is the baby
[14:27:10] <Sync_> then why do we see lower under bonnet temperatures and a slight increase in exhaust temperature with our plasma sprayed sample?
[14:27:10] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[14:27:47] <Sync_> it's just not cost effective during development to have all prototypes sprayed
[14:28:29] <Loetmichel> how about a coat of aerogel for insulation?
[14:28:45] <robin_sz> depends on what your aim is
[14:28:53] <robin_sz> performance or looks
[14:29:20] <DaViruz> guessing lower surface emmissivity. exhaust manifolds are hot enough to make that a big contributor to heat loss
[14:29:43] <robin_sz> a few microns of cermaic coating is not goign to make a big difference
[14:29:55] <DaViruz> insulation against convection losses will probably be close to immeasurable (is that a word?)
[14:30:21] <robin_sz> mmm, it will be measurable on a dyno I suspect, but very small
[14:30:55] <robin_sz> it might raise the exhaust exit temp 5 degrees I guess
[14:32:12] <Sync_> yup, it modifies the emissivity of the piping, which is enough to help
[14:32:39] <robin_sz> but a glass/asbestos wrap would help more
[14:32:56] <robin_sz> which is what the race guys use.
[14:35:43] <Sync_> corrugated foil is also not bad, it is all about radiation
[14:35:52] <Sync_> but it is annoying to use
[14:36:09] <robin_sz> as I said, it depends on your goals. Looks or performance
[14:36:36] <robin_sz> the race guys just use whatever works best
[14:37:58] <robin_sz> on 2 stroke tuned exhausts you can shift the tuning point a few hundred RPM just by wrapping the downpipes
[14:39:34] <Sync_> well, most of the current stuff I see uses either ceramic spraying or corrugated foil
[14:40:49] <robin_sz> on race cars?
[14:40:53] <Sync_> yes
[14:41:31] <robin_sz> I'd put money on glass/assbestos out performing either of those
[14:41:51] <robin_sz> ceramic is usually 25 to 40 microns
[14:42:44] <DaViruz> it's not about the thickness, it's about the surface. insulating against convection lossing isn't everything, in fact it's barely half
[14:42:56] <robin_sz> with a conductivity of around 0.45 W/m/K
[14:43:17] <robin_sz> mmm, id say radiation losses are more than convection losses
[14:43:36] <Sync_> yes, which is why corrugated foil works
[14:43:48] <Sync_> and thin ceramics
[14:43:55] <robin_sz> nope
[14:44:23] <robin_sz> OK, heres the deal
[14:44:46] <robin_sz> lower surface temp = lower radiation losses
[14:44:55] <robin_sz> so, we'll get a steel pipe
[14:45:13] <robin_sz> you can spray your side with 40 microns of whatver
[14:45:27] <robin_sz> I'll put 5mm of glass/asbestos on my side
[14:45:39] <robin_sz> we stick a propane torch down it
[14:45:44] <robin_sz> first one to let go is a pussy
[14:45:51] <gregcnc> lol
[14:45:57] <Sync_> that is not how it works
[14:46:16] <robin_sz> right
[14:46:45] <DaViruz> that really only compares heat loss by contact
[14:46:52] <robin_sz> mmm
[14:47:28] <robin_sz> radiation losses are broadlydirectly proportional to surface tem
[14:47:33] <robin_sz> for most materials
[14:47:52] <Sync_> in the region where exhausts operate, it is dominant
[14:48:00] <DaViruz> (i do agree it would probably be a better overall heat insulator though)
[14:48:02] <Sync_> which is 500°C or more
[14:48:14] <Sync_> (in a race application ofc, which is what I do)
[14:48:38] <robin_sz> im unconvinced
[14:48:59] <DaViruz> in an application where there is high airflow, a porous glass fiber probably won't be a great insulator either
[14:49:21] <robin_sz> it usually has an aluminium foil wrap on the outer
[14:49:26] <robin_sz> and is wired in place
[14:49:27] <DaViruz> the insulation mechanism is basically that it restricts the convection currents of air around hot objects
[14:49:46] <DaViruz> those convection currents will probably be way less then other airflows in a vehicle application
[14:49:54] <DaViruz> oh.
[14:50:20] <robin_sz> all I can say is even today, its what you see on works race bikes
[14:52:10] <DaViruz> i've seen a mix of both wrapped exhaust components and ceramic coatings, i'd say i've also seen a shift from the former to the latter. in race car applications that is
[14:52:35] <DaViruz> the wrappings i've seen haven't had any foil blanketing thoguh
[14:52:53] <robin_sz> I suspect the ceramic is more a fashion thing
[14:53:16] <DaViruz> well, it has documented effects and they are not as small as you assume
[14:53:23] <Sync_> as you have said, if it would not be worth doing racers would not do it
[14:53:59] <robin_sz> I don't believe real racers would use anything other than the one that gives the best performance
[14:53:59] <DaViruz> and it's very light.
[14:54:01] <Sync_> and I don't think BMW, Honda F1 or NISMO are using it because it is a fashionthing
[14:54:15] <robin_sz> shrug
[14:54:29] <robin_sz> id be interestd to see figures
[14:54:46] <robin_sz> same pipe, same heat input, measure exit temp
[14:55:01] <robin_sz> for each coating type
[14:55:04] <robin_sz> and a wrap
[14:58:46] <DaViruz> a lot of the ones i find at a glanze look kind of bullshitty
[14:59:50] <DaViruz> http://www.zircotec.com/rte_img_large_169.jpg
[14:59:58] <DaViruz> i would like to know how they made that measurement
[15:00:54] <DaViruz> if they just used a shitty ir temp gun the temperature is way inaccurate, but it does show a 33% loss in emmissivity which would account for a lot less heat loss
[15:02:31] <robin_sz> Thats basically the problem, all the data seems to be on bullshit sites run by the companies themselves
[15:03:13] <Sync_> well, as I said, I can confirm that the coatings reduce heat loss
[15:03:45] <robin_sz> I agree with you, they certainly do.
[15:04:03] <robin_sz> Just not as much as a wrap.
[15:04:41] <robin_sz> from everything I can find, it looks like they are a popular way of taking money of people who are trying to "improve"their cars
[15:05:31] <DaViruz> well, you need a good reason to want to increase the exhaust temperature in the first place, generally it won't make any difference at all, and may well be detrimental
[15:05:47] <robin_sz> it can improve scavenge in 4st
[15:06:05] <robin_sz> and give a little more efficiency on the turbo
[15:06:14] <DaViruz> yep
[15:06:19] <robin_sz> if you wrap the block to trubo section
[15:06:45] <robin_sz> in bikes, its usually done if you manage to get the engine breathing a little better
[15:06:55] <robin_sz> and need to increase the tune on the pipes
[15:07:16] <robin_sz> 2st pipes are "tuned" to a particualr rpm
[15:07:42] <robin_sz> wrapping the pipe can move that upwards a bit and save modifying the pipes.
[15:08:26] <robin_sz> but mostly, I would imagine it improves the performance of the custom shops bottom line
[15:09:26] <robin_sz> it looks like they are being used in aviation, so they must work to an extent
[15:10:43] <DaViruz> in gas turbines it is massively used
[15:17:07] <OdinYggd> Tuned pipes?
[15:17:08] <OdinYggd> Wat.
[15:17:11] <OdinYggd> No they aren't
[15:17:22] <OdinYggd> The canisters you see that look like a 2 stroke tuned muffler are actually flame cans
[15:17:27] <OdinYggd> and that's 1970s tech jet power
[15:17:36] <OdinYggd> Modern engines do not use them, in favor of an annular ring combustor
[15:19:03] <OdinYggd> The deal with a 2 stroke tuned pipe is they use a geometry that expands the escaping gases, then compresses them again- in the process creating a suction followed by a pressure wave
[15:19:13] <OdinYggd> which acts like a blower to force extra fuel and air through a 2-stroke
[15:20:15] <DaViruz> i think you have no idea what we were talking about
[15:20:43] <DaViruz> ceramic coatings are massively used in gas turbines. not tuned pipes
[15:21:01] <OdinYggd> Ah.
[15:21:03] <OdinYggd> lol yeah
[16:38:07] <Deejay> gn8
[17:27:20] <CaptHindsight> since when do tuna have pipes?
[18:05:49] <witnit> happy weekend!
[18:05:58] <gregcnc> my pncconf generated hal for spindle quad encoder doesn't work. It reads spindle speed and counts, but spindle coordinated moves fail.
[18:17:56] <Tom_itx> tweak it manually
[18:18:25] <Tom_itx> encoders have an index pulse?
[18:18:31] <gregcnc> of course, but I haven't figured out what needs to be changed
[18:18:33] <gregcnc> yes
[18:19:53] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/sherline/
[18:19:58] <Tom_itx> mine is there for comparison
[18:33:11] <CaptHindsight> any one have a new fanglked super high efficiency HVAC unit that actually sucks?
[18:33:20] <CaptHindsight> no air flow
[18:33:33] <CaptHindsight> takes forever to heat or cool
[18:34:11] <CaptHindsight> seems they are like the low flow shower heads and toilets
[18:34:42] <CaptHindsight> you just take a longer shower and flush more often than with the older devices
[18:36:56] <witnit> gregcnc: upload you .ini and .hal? hastebin.com
[18:37:05] <witnit> http://hastebin.com
[18:37:40] <gregcnc> I see this is different
[18:37:48] <gregcnc> mine = net spindle-revs <= hm2_5i25.0.encoder.02.position
[18:38:13] <gregcnc> tom_itx = net spindle-position motion.spindle-revs <= hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.encoder.01.position
[18:40:50] <gregcnc> http://hastebin.com/fatomagifo.coffee
[18:41:38] <gregcnc> some junk i was trying is commented out
[18:43:18] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight, i recently had to replace the air unit and went with 'old tech'
[18:44:03] <CaptHindsight> a wise choice
[18:44:29] <Tom_itx> i was told the newer freons require a lot higher pressures than the old r22
[18:44:55] <Tom_itx> and have a narrower 'margin for error' on the charge
[18:45:11] <CaptHindsight> they spent $16 on new units vs asking me to weld the heat exchangers for free
[18:45:16] <CaptHindsight> $16K
[18:45:50] <witnit> gregcnc: setp hm2_5i25.0.encoder.01.scale [AXIS_2]ENCODER_SCALE
[18:45:53] <Sync_> Tom_itx: yes, the r410a will have a higher pressure in the system
[18:46:05] <witnit> encoder #2 for axis #3?
[18:46:31] <Tom_itx> one is spindle one is pendant
[18:46:54] <gregcnc> axes work fine
[18:47:11] <Sync_> but eh, co2 would have an even higher pressure, but it works very nicely
[18:48:02] <Tom_itx> i would expect compressor failure on a higher pressure system sooner than a lower one
[18:48:55] <Sync_> compressor failure usually is just related to high side temperature
[18:49:06] <Sync_> pressure is not too much of a problem
[18:50:44] <CaptHindsight> depends on the design and choice of materials, machining tolerances, quality if bearings and seals
[18:50:53] <CaptHindsight> if/of
[18:51:09] <Sync_> well, I never have killed a compressor due to overpressure
[18:51:15] <Sync_> but always temperature
[18:51:28] <Tom_itx> i went with the same brand as before since it lasted 35+ years
[18:51:51] <Sync_> as long as it is a name brand compressor, there should not be a lot that goes wrong
[18:51:59] <CaptHindsight> heh, the units they replaced were only 10 years old
[18:52:01] <Sync_> but even the china specials run forever
[18:52:01] <Tom_itx> replaced the exterior fan motor once and a capacitor
[18:52:07] <Tom_itx> that's it
[18:52:11] <witnit> gregcnc: can I see your ini?
[18:53:09] <gregcnc> http://hastebin.com/elucipicov.mel
[18:53:11] <Sync_> the neat thing about hermetic units is, you don't need seals :D
[18:53:49] <Sync_> and non hermetic ones have the the leak built in
[18:56:44] <Sync_> and then there are oiling failures
[18:57:02] <CaptHindsight> and their anti-social nature
[18:58:38] <witnit> im not sure what the true solution is gregcnc but I had to move my spindle to the the 4th location on my board reconfigured and was able to do ridgid tapping. For whatever reason I was unable to get it to work on the third location on my card
[18:58:59] <gregcnc> interesting
[19:01:24] <witnit> When I was tryng to tune the machine is was somehow assuming [axis_1] instead of the one I was actually assigning. so I started tuning the motor and noticed there were no effects to the card. I ACCIDENTLY programmed into the axis_2 and it was affecting the axis_1 as stated in the .hal file!
[19:02:01] <witnit> so to save myself alot of figuring out where I went wrong I reran pnconf with xyz+s and everything worked
[19:06:13] <gregcnc> yeha moveing it to the 4th encoder slot worked
[19:06:17] <witnit> In my situation I was using 7i90+7i33
[19:06:18] <witnit> woo!
[19:06:52] <witnit> like I said i am unsure why this works but it was my only solution at the time, if you figure out a fix please let me know
[19:07:09] <gregcnc> probably need to ask PCW
[19:08:29] <witnit> yeah I hate buggin him though :P hes always so busy
[19:09:26] <gregcnc> i'm getting a real time error at g76 but I'll be moving this to a different PC soon and i still have to reassemble and configure the ATC.
[19:10:18] <witnit> im glad you didnt have to spend as much time as I did getting good motion, I bet I spent 7 hours getting to the bottom of it all
[19:11:47] <witnit> I can be a bit wreckless though, yesterday I was set back by 6 hours atleast due to slippage on an encoder, it slipped just the tiniest bit and would only happen once every 100 revs or so
[19:12:46] <pcw_home> If this is a pncconf created file there may be a error in the index enable boilerplate
[19:14:13] <witnit> frantically googles "boilerplate"
[19:14:58] <witnit> ahh, like template but not
[19:17:40] <gregcnc> witnit thanks for the tip. now I can keep plugging
[19:17:51] <witnit> pcw_home: is it possible that even though my .hal file specifies [axis_1] tuning within my ini [axis_3] is the actual one to be tuned (i have no idea how or why it does this)
[19:18:06] <witnit> gregcnc: yw best of luck!
[19:19:00] <pcw_home> certainly the axis and analog numbers are mixed in the pncconf generated halfile
[19:19:44] <witnit> it as if linux cnc is reading the .ini in a top down fashion not specified by axis_#
[19:20:41] <pcw_home> The hal file gregcnc posted definitely looks funny
[19:20:56] <witnit> i have a suspiciously similar problem
[19:21:25] <witnit> see how he is using encoder 2 for axis3?
[19:21:27] <gregcnc> that was generated from an older version 2.7.2? but I updated to 2.7.4 today and it looked the same
[19:21:35] <witnit> when I tried this, I had serious issues
[19:27:33] <pcw_home> I guess its OK
[19:27:34] <pcw_home> X = enc 0, analog0
[19:27:36] <pcw_home> Z = enc 1, analog1
[19:27:37] <pcw_home> Spindle = enc2,analog5
[19:29:25] <witnit> I could be wrong but it seems like when I did this setp hm2_5i25.0.encoder.01.scale [AXIS_2]ENCODER_SCALE I had problems
[19:30:25] <gregcnc> witnit i spent longer than I'm willing to admit chasing 7i77 I mistyped as 7177 and couldn't see it
[19:30:58] <witnit> ouch
[19:31:18] <witnit> the simple problems are often the hardest to see
[19:35:47] <witnit> with gregcnc his conf SHOULD have worked, It seems like mine should have worked too, but we both did the same thing to fix the problem. Its almost as if the kinematics are expecting an axis and its not there causing some sort of mismatch
[19:47:43] <witnit> Does anyone have a .hal and .ini file containing TWO rotary axis?
[20:31:25] <pink_vampire> morning everyone
[20:39:51] <witnit> morning!
){kind=link}
