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[01:20:20] <toastyde1th> just for reference, you don't need a surface plate to scrape machine ways, you need it to make the scraping gages
[01:22:24] <toastyde1th> get a copy of "machine tool reconditoning" by connelly, it's required
[01:23:25] <archivist> quite a big book, lots of detail
[01:23:27] <toastyde1th> it's much better to have a long, thin plate than a square/rectangular one - all the gages are small
[01:23:32] <toastyde1th> but long
[01:23:48] <toastyde1th> you'll want to go on ebay and find the smallest camelback straightedge you can find
[01:23:58] <toastyde1th> unless you really, really want to make your own which i do not recommend
[01:24:19] <toastyde1th> make sure it's the kind for dovetails with a 90 degree edge on one side and a 30 degree taper on the other edge
[01:25:20] <toastyde1th> you will need a lapping wheel for scrapers, charge, and and a scraper
[01:25:53] <toastyde1th> you'll also need a way to shape the scraper, so have a silicon carbide wheel handy
[01:27:01] <toastyde1th> get some cast iron blocks, because you're going to have to make some scraped parallels and angle gages
[01:27:51] <toastyde1th> you can make most of the alignment shit out of iron pipe and hot glue
[01:28:10] <toastyde1th> a tenths dial indicator for those jigs
[01:28:36] <archivist> and lose the fingernails
[01:28:39] <toastyde1th> you'll need a dull file or a fine stone
[01:28:47] <toastyde1th> to deburr the part after you scrape it
[01:28:59] <toastyde1th> prussian blue, which is cheap but can be hard to find
[01:29:44] <toastyde1th> it really really helps to have a long, single bulb flourescent light fixture that you can put at about waist level, it makes checking the final spotting much easier
[01:31:07] <archivist> blue is the easy bit
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RDGTOOLS-TIN-STUARTS-MICROMETER-ENGINEERS-MARKING-BLUE-TIN-ENGINEERING-TOOLS-/371441149605
[01:31:09] <toastyde1th> and you will need a workbench of some sort with hold downs because you're gonna be leaning on the scraper pretty goddamn hard to start out with
[01:31:42] <toastyde1th> a lot of people just use wood blocks that they screw to a cheap ass wooden table
[01:32:01] <toastyde1th> you can crank on the part as much as you want when you're actually scraping, distorting the part doesn't matter for that bit
[01:34:32] <toastyde1th> it also helps to know how to lap things but it's not necessary, but just keep in mind a lot of the alignment jigs rely on having a lapped instead of a scraped surface
[01:34:47] <toastyde1th> so you have to rejigger them a bit if you want to scrape everything
[01:35:13] <pink_vampire> http://www.ebay.com/itm/36-5-CAMEL-BACK-HAND-SCRAPE-STRAIGHT-EDGE-LEVEL-1-5-WIDE-NICE-/201538268903?hash=item2eec9deee7:g:VF4AAOSwoBtW4Gbh
[01:35:33] <toastyde1th> yeah, but that's pretty large for what you're going to be doing
[01:35:39] <toastyde1th> and that does not have the dovetail edge on it
[01:36:27] <pink_vampire> I'm not sure what I'm looking for
[01:37:05] <toastyde1th> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Precision-Camelback-Straight-Edge-DoveTail-Scraping-Master-30-Mfg-JC-Busch-/222035074140?hash=item33b2525c5c:g:6icAAOSwuAVW0LqH
[01:37:11] <toastyde1th> see how the one edge has an angle?
[01:37:17] <toastyde1th> that's how you spot the inside of a dovetail
[01:37:31] <pink_vampire> US $999.00
[01:37:51] <toastyde1th> yep
[01:37:53] <toastyde1th> welcome to scraping
[01:38:34] <pink_vampire> so i will pay 1000 to someone to do it for me
[01:38:39] <toastyde1th> where the equipment is expensive as shit becuase it's all primary accuracy standards
[01:39:01] <pink_vampire> and i will save my nails
[01:39:10] <toastyde1th> here's the level you use
[01:39:11] <toastyde1th> http://www.ebay.com/itm/FEDERAL-DIFFERENTIAL-ELECTRONIC-LEVEL-SET-MODEL-232-W-ACCESSORIES-MANUAL-/231836767167?hash=item35fa8c53bf:g:r78AAOSwX~dWtOBz
[01:39:30] <toastyde1th> you can use the nice starrett levels, obviously, but most reconditioners have that style of level
[01:39:33] <toastyde1th> much easier to use
[01:39:34] <pink_vampire> $3,712.50
[01:40:17] <toastyde1th> the cheaper option is to use two of these
[01:40:18] <toastyde1th> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Starrett-Master-Precision-Level-Model-199Z-original-wooden-box-free-shipping-/182045773673?hash=item2a62c60f69:g:SEAAAOSwYlJW3GwZ
[01:40:44] <toastyde1th> that's a little on the pricy side, you can usually find them in good condition between 250-350 usd
[01:41:25] <pink_vampire> why not to give it to some pro?
[01:41:41] <pink_vampire> do you have all that stuff?
[01:41:51] <toastyde1th> no, I don't have any machine tools or equipment of my own
[01:42:03] <toastyde1th> i have used all that, but only in a professional or academic setting
[01:42:57] <toastyde1th> you can learn to scrape pretty cheaply, as long as you're not trying to scrape a real dovetail
[01:43:06] <toastyde1th> once you decide to recondition machine ways it gets crazy fast
[01:43:39] <pink_vampire> why not to give it to some pro
[01:43:40] <toastyde1th> trying to keep 4 different surfaces within tolerance of each other for any distance requires some amount of planning
[01:43:40] <pink_vampire> why not to give it to some pro
[01:43:55] <toastyde1th> i mean at some point, you are the pro... so...
[01:44:37] <pink_vampire> i have nails, and i don't know anything about that.
[01:44:56] <pink_vampire> I'm a 3d designer.
[01:45:05] <toastyde1th> i mean, personally i think scraping is neat. i wouldn't want to work on that side of the shop for any length of time because it's brutal work
[01:45:09] <pink_vampire> I know solidworks
[01:45:21] <toastyde1th> i stuck to machining and only scraped as necessary
[01:45:54] <pink_vampire> now it's 2.20 am
[01:46:01] <toastyde1th> solidworks is alright, that's what my shop used. i preferred pro/e back when it was called pro/e
[01:46:05] <toastyde1th> now it's cero or some bullshit
[01:46:16] <toastyde1th> *creo
[01:46:31] <toastyde1th> solidworks sucks on big parts
[01:46:48] <archivist> or use an autocollimator and mirror
[01:47:03] <toastyde1th> fuckin' autocollimator charts, man
[01:47:03] <toastyde1th> fuck those things
[01:47:20] <toastyde1th> i'd take differential levels any day of the week
[01:47:42] <pink_vampire> so in about 6-8 hours, i will be able to call to some places and ask for price.
[01:48:02] <toastyde1th> orrr you could take it apart and actually do some basic checks?
[01:48:29] <toastyde1th> before you spend money on something that could be a simple assembly error? if you're careful, you can fix a cheap gib with a fine cut file
[01:48:45] <toastyde1th> and then flatten it with some wet sandpaper on glass
[01:48:49] <archivist> when I fixed my lathe, it was obviously a worn dovetail cutter used
[01:48:55] <toastyde1th> it's not accurate but it'll get you closer than you are now
[01:49:05] <toastyde1th> ouch
[01:49:08] <pink_vampire> i know that the flat is +- ok.. but the dovetail is really poor cut
[01:49:20] <toastyde1th> i'll take "things i don't want to deal with" for 500 alex
[01:49:23] <archivist> the inner v was holding it off
[01:49:39] <toastyde1th> if the dovetail is cut fucked up you do not, do not, do not want to try scraping it back in unless you really know what you're doing
[01:49:53] <toastyde1th> personally I'd stick it on the planer and recut it, but then again you can't fit a planer in an apartment
[01:50:44] <pink_vampire> there is bumps in the dovetails that you can see with your eyes
[01:51:12] <pink_vampire> if you ave a sec I will take a pic
[01:51:15] <archivist> file them off
[01:51:18] <toastyde1th> get the machine tool reconditioning book and build yourself a dovetail gauge, they're not hard or expensive to make
[01:51:29] <toastyde1th> that will let you know, not guess, exactly where the problem is
[01:52:23] <archivist> just using some blue will help
[01:52:41] <archivist> fit the surfaces together
[01:53:30] <toastyde1th> or a machinist's square and feeler gages, if you have those lying around
[01:53:56] <toastyde1th> which is my favorite method for getting a rough idea of how fucked something is
[01:54:01] <toastyde1th> without dicking with it too much
[01:55:30] <archivist> I bet a pro will want more than the machine is worth to rectify it
[01:55:44] <toastyde1th> my minimum bet for these quotes is 2k
[01:57:03] <pink_vampire> there is no full contact in the dovetails
[01:57:19] <archivist> local reseller of chinese machines tells you to rebuild them before use
[01:57:37] <archivist> especially the spindle
[01:58:02] <pink_vampire> the spindle is really the best part
[01:58:18] <toastyde1th> how on earth would you be able to tell
[01:58:59] <pink_vampire> i put the dial on it
[01:59:11] <pink_vampire> zero runout
[01:59:21] <toastyde1th> that is not actually how you check a spindle, runout is a terrible indicator of a new spindle
[01:59:34] <toastyde1th> and even a poor indicator of a worn spindle
[01:59:42] <toastyde1th> unless you know how to fuck with the spindle to get it to show how worn it is
[02:01:42] <pink_vampire> I did it not on the spindle itself, I use a round drill steel stock material
[02:02:07] <toastyde1th> there's no reason to think that you'll be able to tell anything about the spindle if it's new by doing that
[02:02:15] <toastyde1th> you can check wear doing that, but not new
[02:02:56] <archivist> how good is your dti though
[02:03:04] <pink_vampire> dti?
[02:03:21] <toastyde1th> uh oh
[02:03:32] <toastyde1th> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MzAwWDMwMA==/z/9uEAAOSwnDZUIfy1/$_35.JPG?set_id=2
[02:03:33] <toastyde1th> one of thsoe
[02:03:34] <pink_vampire> http://i.imgur.com/2sWNS4d.png
[02:03:46] <toastyde1th> lol oh man.
[02:03:50] <pink_vampire> ohh the dial
[02:04:01] <pink_vampire> it's a cheap one
[02:04:17] <toastyde1th> if you spend any amount of money on this, you need two things
[02:04:33] <toastyde1th> one, an accurate (.0001" or .001mm) dti from a real brand, and a micrometer from a real brand
[02:04:48] <toastyde1th> everything else, feel free to skimp on without too much guilt
[02:05:23] <pink_vampire> but the dial is very sensitive
[02:06:02] <toastyde1th> it should have the reading right on the dial face
[02:06:13] <archivist> numbers, "sensitive" is empirical
[02:06:16] <pink_vampire> I know
[02:06:38] <pink_vampire> 0.0005in
[02:06:40] <toastyde1th> and that dovetail looks like it stayed out too late drinking on a sunday
[02:07:06] <pink_vampire> that mean?
[02:07:15] <toastyde1th> that's going to be very, very expensive to fix
[02:07:28] <pink_vampire> whay?
[02:07:38] <pink_vampire> why?*
[02:07:43] <toastyde1th> they're going to have to shave it down on a mill or planer first
[02:08:31] <toastyde1th> on a fresh casting you can just kinda go "eh, close enough" as long as you get a good surface
[02:08:44] <toastyde1th> but to put it back on the machine and then try to tram the part in so you can skim cut?
[02:08:50] <toastyde1th> not a ton of fun and fairly tedious
[02:10:16] <toastyde1th> it's usually a flycutter job since a dovetail cutter is really hard to tram in
[02:10:20] <pink_vampire> how much it will cost to run it on the planer?
[02:10:36] <toastyde1th> 1000-1500 is what i would start at
[02:10:43] <toastyde1th> if someone asked me to do it and i felt like taking the job
[02:11:07] <toastyde1th> planers are slow but are a much better tool for the job, but they take a long time to set up
[02:11:30] <pink_vampire> and if i come with my red dress?
[02:11:57] <archivist> http://www.waygrinding.com/
[02:12:02] <toastyde1th> there aren't many people hot enough for me to do 10-15 hours of work just to look at briefly
[02:12:38] <archivist> missing from their list of suitable machines is chinese
[02:12:38] <toastyde1th> haha that's so 90s
[02:13:18] <pink_vampire> archivist: where they located?
[02:13:29] <toastyde1th> listen, at this point i'd sell the machine and go buy one of those little hardinge milling machines off ebay
[02:13:31] <archivist> read the damned site
[02:13:45] <toastyde1th> they're good, small, and available
[02:14:05] <toastyde1th> and will make you a better machinist in the end
[02:14:09] <pink_vampire> hardinge?
[02:14:19] <toastyde1th> yes?
[02:14:34] <pink_vampire> it's type of machine?
[02:14:37] <pink_vampire> brand?
[02:14:54] <toastyde1th> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hardinge-TM-UM-Horizontal-Toolroom-Mill-/231873259343?hash=item35fcb9274f:g:QiMAAOSwoudW4bDJ
[02:15:12] <toastyde1th> http://www.ebay.com/itm/HARDINGE-TM-UM-HORIZONTAL-MILL-W-VERTICAL-HEAD-COLLETS-POWER-TABLE-FEED-/131438471293?hash=item1e9a57e87d:g:hPsAAOSwNSxU7MVn
[02:15:15] <toastyde1th> there's one with a vertical head
[02:15:40] <toastyde1th> they can be found for about 1500
[02:15:41] <pink_vampire> 220V 3PHASE
[02:16:09] <toastyde1th> there are 1 ph models, and you can also run a rotary phase converter or a vfd
[02:16:31] <pink_vampire> the size of the g0704 is the max that i can put here.
[02:16:59] <archivist> accept the crappyness of the chinese mill
[02:17:04] <pink_vampire> the original idea was to go with the tormach 110, but it was to big and heavy
[02:17:29] <pink_vampire> 1100
[02:17:54] <toastyde1th> http://www.mini-lathe.com/X3_mill/X3rvw/X3.htm
[02:18:05] <toastyde1th> if i was buying a little desk mill, this is what i'd buy
[02:18:09] <toastyde1th> or one of its rebrands
[02:18:51] <toastyde1th> the x4 is better still but way heavy.
[02:18:56] <archivist> toastyde1th, that is the type we had to adjust the spindle twice on
[02:19:07] <toastyde1th> yeah, they're not great
[02:19:15] <toastyde1th> but then again... there's not much in that space
[02:19:39] <pink_vampire> toastyde1th: I'm live WOOD house in second floor
[02:19:43] <pink_vampire> on*
[02:20:23] <pink_vampire> something over 400lbs is dangerous
[02:20:45] <toastyde1th> point load for wood joists is well over 400 lbs
[02:21:07] <pink_vampire> even the G0704 bolted to huge solid wood plates 3" thick
[02:21:50] <toastyde1th> so what i'm pointing out here is that you've bought your way into a corner
[02:23:11] <pink_vampire> and if I just do the planer thing without scrape it
[02:23:18] <Deejay> moin
[02:23:24] <pink_vampire> it will be better?
[02:23:28] <Deejay> hi pinky
[02:23:30] <pink_vampire> hi Deejay
[02:23:38] <pink_vampire> http://i.imgur.com/2sWNS4d.png
[02:23:44] <pink_vampire> Deejay: ^
[02:24:35] <Deejay> what do I see on that photo?
[02:25:00] <pink_vampire> look at the dovetails
[02:25:01] <toastyde1th> pink_vampire, sure it would
[02:25:11] <toastyde1th> planers are really great at that kind of job
[02:25:48] <pink_vampire> and just do only the planer will be also arm and a leg?
[02:25:53] <toastyde1th> yup
[02:26:29] <pink_vampire> ballpark..
[02:26:47] <toastyde1th> if it were *me* i wouldn't touch it for less than 1500
[02:26:56] <toastyde1th> and most shops will charge more for pretty good reasons
[02:28:06] <pink_vampire> http://www.lowes.com/pd_80882-70-PC305TP_0__?k_clickID=4941a4db-73e4-72c9-6a8d-00001dc6cc6a&store_code=540&productId=3044121&selectedLocalStoreBeanArray=[com.lowes.commerce.storelocator.beans.LocatorStoreBean%4024012401]&storeNumber=0540&kpid=3044121&cm_mmc=SCE_PLA-_-ToolsAndHardware-_-BenchtopTools-_-3044121%3APORTER-CABLE&CAWELAID=&CAWELAID=1024174791
[02:28:13] <toastyde1th> go look at Keith Fenner on youtube to see some videos of what even simpler work takes
[02:28:15] <toastyde1th> in terms of hows
[02:28:17] <toastyde1th> *hours
[02:28:53] <toastyde1th> nope, that's a wood planer
[02:28:53] <toastyde1th> http://www.tuckahoesteam.org/Collections/MachineShop/Rockford_Planer/Planer01.jpg
[02:29:03] <pink_vampire> I watch his channel sometimes
[02:30:03] <toastyde1th> we had one of these
http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/working-machine-operator-controls-processing-metal-st-petersburg-russia-may-tool-planing-milling-double-column-55108668.jpg
[02:30:05] <toastyde1th> and two smaller ones
[02:30:12] <toastyde1th> (that exact planer)
[02:30:16] <pink_vampire> so.. what I need to looking for? metal planer service?
[02:30:30] <toastyde1th> no, you're just looking for a job shop
[02:30:33] <toastyde1th> that will take repair/etc work
[02:30:48] <toastyde1th> if they want to use a milling machine, which is what they probably have, let them use it
[02:31:25] <toastyde1th> only scraping shops use planers anymore
[02:31:35] <toastyde1th> it's very, very rare to see them outside scraping
[02:32:05] <pink_vampire> so just google "job shop ny"
[02:32:25] <toastyde1th> machine shop ny
[02:32:35] <toastyde1th> and then... start calling to find out what work they do
[02:32:47] <toastyde1th> most shops will not touch one off jobs, so you have to find a shop that does repair/rework
[02:33:05] <toastyde1th> just explain your situation to them and they'll be able to tell you right away if they do the work
[02:34:16] <pink_vampire> and how I can know if they good?
[02:34:25] <toastyde1th> you really can't?
[02:35:29] <toastyde1th> fortunately this is an industry where almost everyone in it is over 55
[02:35:34] <toastyde1th> and has been doing it since highschool
[02:36:13] <pink_vampire> so almost everyone can help me with that?
[02:36:30] <toastyde1th> if they take the work, yes
[02:37:21] <pink_vampire> what I need to tell them?
[02:37:56] <pink_vampire> or what to ask?
[02:38:11] <toastyde1th> just explain your situation
[02:38:36] <toastyde1th> you're trying to get into machining and you got a machine with a crapped up dovetail, do you do that kind of work or know a local shop that does?
[02:39:31] <pink_vampire> and I need to give them the whole machine?
[02:39:37] <pink_vampire> or just the Z axis?
[02:39:44] <toastyde1th> depends on what the shop wants
[02:39:54] <toastyde1th> they might want it disassembled, they might want the whole thing and to do it themselves
[02:40:26] <toastyde1th> they might demand a drawing
[02:40:45] <pink_vampire> drawing foo what?
[02:40:59] <toastyde1th> the tolerances and dimensions
[02:41:03] <toastyde1th> of the slide and the dovetail
[02:41:36] <toastyde1th> it depends on the shop and what kind of work they want to do
[02:41:36] <archivist> just leave well alone
[02:41:45] <toastyde1th> seconded.
[02:42:00] <archivist> accept the machine as is
[02:42:25] <toastyde1th> goodnight all
[02:42:29] <pink_vampire> I will make some phone call tomorrow,
[02:42:46] <pink_vampire> toastyde1th: thank you soo much for your help!
[02:45:09] <pink_vampire> archivist: but if I have so much freedom on the Z axis it's unusable as cnc, just as mill if you lock the gib.
[02:50:54] <pink_vampire> archivist: ?
[02:58:13] <archivist> have you adjusted the gib
[03:03:50] <pink_vampire> I did the lapping,,
[03:04:52] <pink_vampire> and now It's better then before, but I'm off about 0.1 mm in some places. and I can't do anything about the dovetails.
[03:04:56] <pink_vampire> archivist: ^
[03:06:27] <pink_vampire> archivist: do you know the chinese 60 40 cnc
[03:07:06] <pink_vampire> I want to be able to get the quality of the cuts that you can get with them
[03:07:10] <pink_vampire> archivist: ^
[03:08:00] <pink_vampire> archivist: now I'm really far from it, and not even sure that I can ever will be able to get close to that.
[03:08:48] <pink_vampire> ?
[03:09:12] <archivist> I ithink you need to learn feeds and speeds to get good cuts
[03:09:56] <archivist> it comes with experience
[03:11:18] <pink_vampire> but all the calculation show that my rpm is way to low to achieve good cut.
[03:11:35] <pink_vampire> archivist: ^
[03:12:47] <archivist> I have a low speed machine
[03:15:40] <pink_vampire> what is the max speed of this "low speed" machine?
[03:21:04] <pink_vampire> I'm going to sleep
[03:21:47] <pink_vampire> goon night archivist, and thank you alot for the help.
[03:22:40] <pink_vampire> good*
[03:24:39] <archivist> about 2000
[03:26:05] <pink_vampire> my go up to 1000, your slow is 2 times faster then my
[06:40:02] <archivist> EH676
[06:40:11] <archivist> oops
[06:40:14] <witnit> :)
[06:42:26] <witnit> has anyone suggested to pink_vampire it might better just to buy a quality dovetail slide to attach to completely replace the current one?
[06:43:03] <XXCoder> what was wrong with hers
[06:43:11] <witnit> made in china i think
[06:43:52] <witnit> says she has to lock down the gib to make a cut, so its essentially a drill press with adjustable table
[06:44:08] <archivist> witnit, type that code in my website, you find a manual :)
[06:45:18] <archivist> she will have trouble machining off the current dovetails to fit new as well
[06:46:13] <witnit> just scrap the whole base and add something like this
http://www.ebay.com/itm/9-x-12-GILMAN-2-Axis-Machine-Table-/331237699291?hash=item4d1f4e2edb:m:m_fJGR-BUsOD9OuPQmiGwRw
[06:46:46] <archivist> he problem is the Z slide
[06:46:49] <archivist> her
[06:47:05] <witnit> oh, well, you can polish a turd
[06:47:11] <witnit> can't*
[06:47:28] <archivist> I have seen shiny turds
[06:47:38] <witnit> I hear you can roll them in glitter though
[06:48:32] <witnit> archivist: your website link pls, do I have the ability to upload a manual? :)
[06:48:41] <archivist> I do think there are some unrealistic expectations for the cheap imported stuff
[06:49:01] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info
[06:49:17] <archivist> no I never implemented any upload
[06:49:20] <XXCoder> witnit: there is a way to turn mud to shiny sphere. im sure it works for shit too
[06:54:42] <witnit> I would suspect for the vertical slide it would probably be easier and more affordable to attach two linear guide rails and linear bearings, I guess i should see what model of machine it is though
[06:58:14] <archivist> I used rails for my Z
[06:58:33] <witnit> any rigidity issues?
[06:59:37] <archivist> the column was the problem for me not the rails
[07:03:48] <_methods> yeah the column on my x2 is like a wet noodle
[07:04:08] <_methods> cutting steel is a true test of patience
[07:05:42] <Magnifikus> so got my sq6-rs ball bearings from china
[07:06:00] <Magnifikus> lookin fine, lets see how they perform on the long run on my delta :)
[07:06:15] <Magnifikus> eh ball joints
[07:06:15] <archivist> I added some right angle angle to the column to make a larger effective rectangle
[07:06:44] <witnit> I have troubles understanding how people battle chatter when using such machines. I have 6,000lb machines and still fight it down at the very heavy duty slides with heavy spring returns.
[07:08:27] <Sync_> witnit: by using reasonable feedrates and appropiate tooling
[07:08:34] <_methods> if i need to do something out of steel i just do it at work
[07:08:39] <witnit> if you look at the suggested speeds and feeds for insert tooling, most of them would destroy a small machine
[07:08:56] <_methods> but sometimes i need to do something out of steel at the house and i have to use that little turd for it
[07:09:00] <_methods> and it always sucks
[07:09:02] <Sync_> that is why you don't use insert tooling on a small lathe
[07:09:04] <Sync_> err machine
[07:09:13] <Sync_> there is no benefit in doing so
[07:09:34] <witnit> yeah, you have to put a good edge on them prior to using them I assume
[07:09:42] <witnit> so you might as well use hss
[07:09:53] <archivist> there is also the extra sharp inserts for lighter work
[07:10:00] <Sync_> no witnit
[07:10:04] <Sync_> variable helix carbide
[07:10:07] <Sync_> that is where it is at
[07:10:08] <_methods> i need to add some gussets to the back of the column to stiffen it up and it might be almost tolerable to work with
[07:12:30] <Sync_> and I suppose her gib is just not adjusted right
[07:12:56] <_methods> that's putting it mildly
[07:13:05] <witnit> I would rather have a sturdy mini mill with 5"x12" travel on heavy duty slides than I would a 12"x20" travel light duty and poorly made slide
[07:13:13] <archivist> the picture shows it is not well made
[07:13:54] <Sync_> it is not well made, but it'll work
[07:14:26] <witnit> when i see paint that looks like that on a machine I automatically assume china
[07:15:22] <_methods> i'm going to start saying that now when someone is a whacko
[07:15:35] <_methods> their gibs aren't adjusted right
[07:15:56] <_methods> that guy has a couple loose gibs
[07:16:38] <witnit> lel
[07:16:44] <_methods> i don't think trump has his gibs adjusted right
[07:16:45] <_methods> hahahaha
[07:18:00] <Sync_> archivist: my lathe had the cross slide warped by .18mm and it did good work
[07:18:44] <witnit> even if the gibs were properly adjusted on that machine I wouldnt be surprised it the angles on the dovetail were wrong and/or cut on a taper/lacking parallelism
[07:19:47] <archivist> I had a hobbymat md65 that had the dovetail cut with a worn cutter
[07:20:10] <witnit> yeah i guess the quality is written in the product name
[07:21:01] <archivist> that was east european, similar quality to china
[07:21:37] <_methods> yeah i almost made the mistake of getting a polish lathe at auction one time
[07:21:47] <_methods> i couldn't figure out why it was going so cheap
[07:21:55] <Sync_> it depends
[07:21:58] <Sync_> usually they are really good
[07:22:10] <_methods> i googled it and apparently the headstock casting was so porous the oil would all leak out overnight
[07:22:38] <_methods> aren't poreba's polish?
[07:22:55] <Sync_> yes
[07:23:06] <_methods> yeah they make some of the best big lathes too
[07:23:13] <witnit> IMO all slides on a machine mill/lathe/grinder should be precision slides.
[07:23:38] <witnit> if you got one problem on a mill slide and make 100 parts, now you have 101 problems
[07:23:59] <Sync_> no shit, but that comes at a price
[07:24:09] <Sync_> and for what the things are worth, they are fine
[07:24:48] <witnit> Ive seen people put $1,000 worth of tooling and holders on a $200 lathe
[07:25:07] <Sync_> so?
[07:38:23] <witnit> so the question is why buy something like this
http://www.scarletstarstudios.com/art/sven_pix/2006/05.22.06_3.sherline.jpg when there are options out there similar to this
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/1f/a2/53/1fa2532f8a6553fd7f2c7b14434ab088.jpg
[07:40:57] <archivist> often unrealistic expectations, new vs second hand
[07:41:14] <archivist> lack of clue
[07:42:24] <DRGray> how would i mill an m5 hole with a 3mm tap?
[07:42:45] <_methods> you wouldn't
[07:42:55] <archivist> taps dont mill
[07:44:00] <DRGray> sorry
[07:44:02] <DRGray> brain blown
[07:44:09] <_methods> taps aren't made to withstand side loading
[07:44:12] <DRGray> i mean make a 4.5hole with a 3mm end mill
[07:44:38] <_methods> a circular toolpath
[07:45:04] <_methods> start at center and lead in then interpolate the hole and lead out
[07:45:29] <DRGray> ive just found a something for generating the gcode for one hole im thinking of putting it in a method
[07:46:14] <_methods> that sounds like a fine idea
[07:46:54] <archivist> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.6/html/gcode/gcode.html#sec:G2-G3-Arc
[07:47:29] <witnit> ^ that would be best to learn to do before using a generator I imagine
[07:47:32] <DRGray> G2 X-1.1000Y1.0000 i2.1000j0 z-0.2000
[07:47:51] <DRGray> * x reducing z for each layer
[07:49:51] <maxcnc> hi all
[07:49:53] <maxcnc> hi all
[07:50:17] <maxcnc> friday and its getting sunny
[07:51:49] <witnit> hey maxcnc
[07:51:56] <maxcnc> ;-)
[07:53:03] <witnit> anyone got some 3/4-8 ACME thread gauges for sale or rent PM me
[08:04:01] <JT-Shop> can you use thread wires on ACME threads?
[08:04:02] <maxcnc> till later
[08:08:06] <witnit> JT-Shop: yeah I can use my comparitor too, but I was trying to avoid building a jig for measuring them using the three wire method. the order is for 60,000pcs and the production machine is rather far from the comparitor.
[08:08:40] <witnit> it wouldnt be that bad but im not the one who will be running the job and I would like to idiotproof the thread measuring
[08:09:09] <JT-Shop> got it
[08:09:27] <_methods> go/nogo gage?
[08:09:37] <witnit> _methods: thats what i need
[08:10:11] <witnit> good ones arent exactly cheap and this is for a propane valve so I would prefer the quality
[08:10:18] <gregcnc> bid didn't include buying a gage, or you can't get one in time?
[08:11:00] <_methods> well if we're doing something like that we'll just make a go/nogo
[08:11:03] <witnit> well I put the bid out including the cost of new gages but I dont want to spend $900 on two gages
[08:11:10] <_methods> if it's something odd and we don't want to buy one
[08:11:28] <witnit> I dont have the means to make good gauges
[08:11:30] <_methods> then you only have to measure once
[08:11:34] <_methods> oh
[08:12:01] <witnit> I have some grinding machines but lack the ability to grind internally at 8tpi
[08:12:03] <_methods> but you can cut the 3/4-8 threads?
[08:12:16] <_methods> you don't have to grind it
[08:12:52] <witnit> well yeah I can cut them with a revolving die head but I will be rolling the thread
[08:13:47] <witnit> the gages will need to be female
[08:15:32] <_methods> 60,000 pcs is a good size job
[08:16:11] <witnit> brass and about 2.625 long
[08:16:11] <_methods> $900 spread over that job is $0.015/part
[08:16:29] <_methods> you'd only be adding .02/part
[08:16:39] <_methods> to pay for the gages
[08:16:43] <witnit> bottom line is thats another $900 in my pocket :)
[08:17:03] <_methods> hahah
[08:17:07] <_methods> greedy bastard
[08:17:45] <witnit> I will probably screw the gauges on and off less then 500 times throughout the whole job
[08:20:49] <_methods> man that sucks so you have no lathe that can cut the internal threads on the gages?
[08:21:49] <_methods> the only other way i can think of is to drill and ream the hole then tap it and maybe get lucky hittin the upper and lower tolerance
[08:22:00] <_methods> or at least somewhere close enough to make acceptable gages
[08:22:36] <_methods> or you have id grinding capability so you can grind the holes out then tap them
[08:23:41] <_methods> will probably involve a bunch of trial and error
[08:24:30] <gregcnc> and soon cost more than buying gages?
[08:24:37] <_methods> ^^
[08:32:18] <OdinYggd> <JT-Shop> can you use thread wires on ACME threads?
[08:32:22] <OdinYggd> yes, they have their own chart
[10:17:31] <CaptHindsight> So what's the topic of the day? The criteria appears to be asking the same question every few hours. Not being happy with any answer. Equipment specifications requiring very oddball voltages, frequencies, temperatures etc.; e.g. 90V, 1000Hz, 135-150C. And cost <$100.
[10:18:14] <malcom2073> Yes, that's par for this particular course
[10:18:41] <tiwake> what?
[10:19:08] <OdinYggd> 90V sounds like Japanese import, at least a lot of the Mazak CNCs I maintain have 90-100v 60hz internally instead of 120v
[10:19:15] <malcom2073> Don't forget asking vauge questions to solve problems that the question won't actually solve
[10:19:23] <OdinYggd> 1khz would be a PWM harmonic
[10:19:31] <OdinYggd> too hot to handle, and way too cheap for realistic solutions
[10:19:35] <OdinYggd> who asked this again?
[10:19:40] <OdinYggd> I hope they aren't anyone I work with
[10:19:43] <CaptHindsight> random postings of body parts (e.g. elbow piercings, hairy knuckles) along with metal stock is optional
[10:22:02] <CaptHindsight> malcom2073: how much do questions like that weigh?
[10:22:23] <gregcnc> depends how much thought was put into them of course
[10:23:04] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: 24 weights
[10:23:45] <CaptHindsight> is an even number good or bad?
[10:23:55] <gregcnc> so 12 thoughts for the going $.02 rate
[10:25:22] <malcom2073> My thoughts are significantly more expensive than that :P
[10:26:45] <_methods> yeah yesterday was pretty painful
[10:26:54] <MrSunshine> hmm anyone know how many teeth there are on the southbend lathe spindle? =)
[10:28:17] <_methods> depends on who's mouth is around the spindle i guess
[10:31:57] <OdinYggd> What year of southbend?
[10:32:04] <OdinYggd> And what spindle nose does it use
[10:32:10] <OdinYggd> there's been more than a few variations
[10:49:25] <archivist> and which gear on the spindle
[10:49:45] <archivist> there are 3
[10:50:03] <lair82> pcw_home, You floating around?
[10:50:18] <pcw_home> yeah
[11:10:31] <jdh> floating ground?
[11:12:43] <malcom2073> Fried a servo drive that way a couple months ago
[11:20:30] <lair82> Hey, pcw_home, That machine has been sitting idle with the control up, and linuxcnc running, and the values right now on that 7i80 read pin are, time=392928, and max=706000.
[11:20:55] <lair82> since wednesday, when we last chatted
[11:37:51] <pcw_home> sounds ok
[11:41:32] <lair82> so those would be acceptable numbers then?
[11:45:39] <Jymmm> gregcnc: Bottom-right corner...
http://imgur.com/izukZ8C
[11:47:40] <lair82> The sad thing is, some idiot actually licked the damn thing, under power.
[11:48:47] <Jymmm> =)
[11:49:04] <OdinYggd> You can't fix stupid
[11:49:13] <OdinYggd> and labels like that only encourage other idiots to try it
[11:49:22] <OdinYggd> because lol why is that warning there that's stupid lets see what happens
[11:49:41] <OdinYggd> All it does is covers you in court when the idiot proves to be smart enough to hire a lawyer
[11:49:51] <lair82> I was told that a long time ago, and being a maintenance professional, I live by it every day.
[11:50:01] <OdinYggd> you know my pain then.
[11:50:18] <OdinYggd> I can fix it all day, a better idiot gets hired tomorrow that breaks it in record time
[11:50:22] <Jymmm> lair82 Live by what, licking things?
[11:50:32] <OdinYggd> And I can't fire said idiot, cause he's the general manager's buddy
[11:52:11] <lair82> Yep, I love to lick things,just ask the wife, just not circuit boards though
[11:52:52] <lair82> Yep, I hear ya there OdinYggd
[11:53:02] <Jymmm> lair82: Ok, whats her number, lets see what she scores you at
[11:53:34] <Jymmm> lair82: 65 or better is a passing grade
[11:54:18] <gregcnc> jymmm nice
[11:54:29] <Jymmm> gregcnc: Thought you might like that
[11:54:29] <lair82> I figured when the neighbors dog started howling, from her howling at the moon, I must know what I'm doing ;)
[11:55:18] <Jymmm> lair82:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S-N7xWWrbo
[12:03:54] <lair82> Really, this is where you went,
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=65&defid=5551821
[12:04:27] <Jymmm> lol
[12:13:02] <lair82> Here's my title according to the wife,
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Cunnilinguist
[12:20:56] <Loetmichel2> "what do you mean: wrong hole?"
[12:20:58] <Loetmichel2> ;-)
[12:21:10] <Jymmm> lair82: But can you do this?
http://www.piercingtime.com/images/341/Forked-Tongue-Piercings-For-Girls.jpg
[12:22:23] <lair82> Boy, that would be a party, that she would never let me leave.
[12:22:51] <Jymmm> hahaha
[12:28:11] <lair82> Gotta go guys, See ya Monday
[12:30:41] <maxcnc> hi
[12:31:32] <Jymmm> hola
[12:49:14] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/MAZAK-SLANT-TURN-15-CNC-LATHE-42300/262289311366 $4,600 or best
[12:53:09] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Supermax-Model-Max-1-Rebel-CNC-Machining-Center-20-ATC-with-Fanuc-OM-Control-/182049363774 $2k
[12:53:43] <CaptHindsight> Need gone
[12:53:43] <CaptHindsight> Priced to sell. Free loading on Buyer's truck
[12:55:13] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dyna-2800-CNC-Mill/182050207053 $900
[12:59:57] <OdinYggd> That Mazak slant-turn 15 is a huge gamble
[13:00:08] <OdinYggd> Being a 1980s model, if it has a bad spindle or axis amplifier in it, its toast
[13:00:18] <OdinYggd> Mitsubishi no longer has spares for the model of amplifier that machine would use
[13:00:27] <OdinYggd> Though as a retrofit candidate, the frame might be okay
[13:03:27] <Sync_> the drives are fairly easy to replace on those
[13:04:17] <OdinYggd> They pop out fairly easily, but your parts source for one that old would be ebay
[13:04:47] <OdinYggd> Very little of the Mitsubishi parts inventory for something that old remains, so OEM repairs are not an option
[13:05:29] <Sync_> I mean replacing them with something else
[13:15:34] <Loetmichel2> sooo, new 40 eur desk chair arrived. Already mounted... any bets how long this one will last? ->
http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16173
[13:16:52] <OdinYggd> Made by ikea?
[13:17:24] <malcom2073> Loetmichel2: If your last char didn't last long, chances are the new one won't either :P
[13:17:52] <Loetmichel2> malcom2073: the last was 35 eur ;)
[13:18:10] <Loetmichel2> and lasted about 2 months, then
http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15392
[13:18:28] <malcom2073> Yeah I wouldn't expect this one to last much longer. That kind of a break is from misuse not bad design :P
[13:19:23] <Loetmichel2> malcom2073: ahem... misuse?
[13:19:32] <Loetmichel2> how can you misuse THAT weld?
[13:20:19] <malcom2073> Loetmichel2: By stting down uh... not gently?
[13:20:54] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiypHhTA9rg Strongest Folding Chair on the planet Loaded with 1500 LBs (689Kg)
[13:21:34] <malcom2073> Lol that guy putting his foot under there while placing weights
[13:27:49] <gregcnc> www.ebay.com/itm/Dyna-2800-CNC-Mill/182050207053? decent cnc bench mill BT30, 10k spindle
[13:28:31] <Loetmichel2> malcom2073: the guy has faith ;)
[13:29:08] <malcom2073> heh
[13:41:32] <maxcnc> Gn8
[13:53:41] <Simonious> In fusion 360 - what operation should I use to cut these grooves?
http://oi68.tinypic.com/2jdmd79.jpg
[13:58:05] <gregcnc> which did you try that were unsatisfactory
[13:59:22] <Simonious> trace, slot, engrave are the ones I'm looking at. Trace is my favorite contender, but they are all giving me trouble. I've tried all three and have had various problems, so I'm just looking for an indicator which might be the best to focus on.
[14:00:56] <_methods> why not just offset the path bidirectional then do a cut
[14:01:34] <_methods> you'd have to do something in the bottom of the profile then to get that v shape it looks like
[14:01:47] <_methods> kinda kludgy
[14:02:34] <Simonious> uhm..?
[14:02:44] <Simonious> it should be a single pass
[14:03:18] <_methods> does fusion 360 not have swept cut or something?
[14:03:47] <_methods> http://fusion360.autodesk.com/learning/learning.html?guid=GUID-B9F61274-36F9-424E-9E99-36A270C15067
[14:04:11] <Simonious> I don't know.. nothing with the name swept cut
[14:04:18] <gregcnc> what kind of problems are you having?
[14:04:34] <_methods> he's trying to do a swept cut
[14:05:04] <_methods> that link tells you how to do it in 360
[14:05:05] <gregcnc> is the model still imported from SW?
[14:05:35] <_methods> wtf are you using 360 for if you have SW?
[14:06:01] <gregcnc> i guess you've missed out on this whole story
[14:06:08] <_methods> i think i remember it
[14:06:15] <_methods> he's using it for 3d cam
[14:06:24] <_methods> or something like that?
[14:06:44] <gregcnc> essentially
[14:10:17] <Simonious> it's a SW model, yes and I'm using 360, because it can do 3D cuts and nothing else that is free can, except CAMBAM, which hasn't worked as well for me thus far.
[14:10:46] <gregcnc> I see geometry that will be difficult to duplicate exactly
[14:11:04] <Simonious> granted I don't need 3D for this, however I don't really want to play with multiple cam programs if I don't have to.
[14:11:14] <gregcnc> but what exactly are the issues?
[14:11:44] <Simonious> for which path option?
[14:11:57] <gregcnc> trace
[14:12:39] <Simonious> trace fails to grab the full path, it makes me select every little segment and calls each one a chain
[14:13:05] <gregcnc> so you have to click a lot
[14:13:16] <Simonious> probably, trying that
[14:13:40] <Simonious> oh sometimes it strings a few together
[14:13:43] <Simonious> yay
[14:16:22] <Simonious> yup, and one screwed up click unselected them all
[14:16:23] <Simonious> crap
[14:16:37] <_methods> you can't window select?
[14:16:50] <Simonious> what is that?
[14:17:05] <_methods> where you drag a window across the desired geometry
[14:17:45] <Simonious> it doesn't appear to have that option for selecting the curves to cut in trace at least
[14:17:51] <Simonious> I have to select actual curves
[14:17:54] <Simonious> and lines
[14:18:25] <Simonious> Hmm.. I don't think solidworks merged those lines cleanly
[14:18:36] <Simonious> I'm noticing it gets the full chains for other paths
[14:18:53] <Simonious> ugh, some of them
[14:20:16] <_methods> anyone in here ever use carbide tip bandsaw blades?
[14:20:33] <_methods> we have been getting lots of D2 jobs lately
[14:20:34] <robin_sz> bandsaw?
[14:20:46] <_methods> like 12" dia material
[14:20:52] <_methods> yeah bandsaw
[14:21:19] <_methods> the d2 is killing saw blades
[14:21:22] <robin_sz> I can ask my mate on the estate what he uses on Monday
[14:21:44] <_methods> i was lookin at getting some simonds siclone blades
[14:21:53] <robin_sz> what s D2?
[14:21:56] <_methods> but i was tempted to try out these carbide tipped ones
[14:22:02] <_methods> it's a cold work mold steel
[14:22:09] <_methods> high alloy tool steel
[14:22:23] <_methods> http://www.starrett.com/docs/other-downloadable-resources/advanz-ts---bulletin-1021.pdf?Status=Master
[14:22:29] <robin_sz> suprised a standard blade even touches it
[14:22:33] <_methods> but i was just lookin at these starret carbide ones
[14:22:50] <_methods> i've never tried carbide bandsaw blades out before
[14:23:35] <SpeedEvil> Is HSS typically heat-treated post-grinding?
[14:23:55] <robin_sz> my initial feeling was the blade flaex woudl soon loosen the teeth
[14:23:57] <SpeedEvil> Or is it supplied as desired and then cut?
[14:24:20] <_methods> you know i have no idea about that hss
[14:24:59] <_methods> it wouldn't be shiny when you get it if it was treated after grinding
[14:25:23] <robin_sz> might be easier to wire cut it
[14:25:31] <_methods> wire cut?
[14:25:47] <Sync_> edm
[14:25:54] <_methods> Hhahahahah
[14:25:55] <_methods> no
[14:25:59] <_methods> not enough time for that
[14:26:35] <_methods> 12" dia bar
[14:26:38] <Sync_> it doesn't take long for rought cuts, but you could try friction cutting
[14:26:49] <_methods> we cut it with bandsaw now
[14:26:54] <Sync_> take a dull bandsaw blade backwards
[14:27:03] <Sync_> and just push in
[14:27:08] <_methods> egyptian style
[14:27:23] <robin_sz> abrasive wheel?
[14:27:30] <SpeedEvil> robin_sz: 12" dia
[14:27:37] <SpeedEvil> that'll need a beeg wheel
[14:27:46] <robin_sz> they make them big
[14:27:56] <_methods> i was just curious if anyone had used the carbide tipped bandsaw blades before
[14:27:57] <robin_sz> you only need 6" depth of cut
[14:28:11] <robin_sz> anyway, not we havent :)
[14:28:23] <robin_sz> how much is a roll of that stuff?
[14:28:23] <SpeedEvil> robin_sz: though even 'just' 4" depth of cut would let you do the teeny bit on a bandsaw
[14:28:36] <robin_sz> exactly
[14:28:50] <Sync_> _methods: I have, they work pretty well
[14:29:12] <Sync_> but if your saw has enough power friction cutting is more economical
[14:36:49] <_methods> well i might get one just to try out
[14:38:57] <SpeedEvil> Sync_: but for a 12" thick bar?
[14:39:09] <SpeedEvil> I could see it for thin bar
[14:39:34] <SpeedEvil> but the force needs to be quite high, and you'll melt the blade surely
[14:42:31] <Sync_> nah
[14:48:04] <t12> dang micro100 boring bars cutting surfaces
[14:48:05] <t12> are like mirrors
[14:51:33] <_methods> i like micro100 stuff
[14:51:38] <_methods> they make good endmills too
[15:22:28] <Jymmm> Crom: Self lifting iron video
http://www.amazon.com/Oliso-TG1100-1800-Watts-Smart/dp/B002R1L270 and amazon link
http://www.amazon.com/Oliso-TG1100-1800-Watts-Smart/dp/B002R1L270
[15:30:12] <_methods> does it have an app
[15:36:03] <evil_ren> man fuck around the ear mem wire iems
[15:36:16] <evil_ren> but omg the tasteless levels of bass on these things
[15:36:24] <evil_ren> me gusta
[15:59:02] <andypugh> I feel a strange urge to make one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loI1Kwed8Pk
[16:01:15] <cradek> they're lovely
[16:02:01] <andypugh> The problem is, everyone agrees, so they cost a fortune.
[16:08:22] <Sync_> I've seen a few go for around 500€ or so
[16:09:45] <andypugh> This one sold at $1500
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RARE-BOXED-CURTA-Calculator-TYPE-II-549736-Near-MINT-STATE-1969-/131745785487?hash=item1eaca9268f:g:60UAAOSwYlJW3Ysx
[16:20:26] <Crom> jymm nice, though I don't I'll ever spend $149 on an iron
[16:20:57] <Jymmm> Crom: Yeah, me neither, just never saw a self-lifting iron before.
[16:21:34] <Sync_> I think I spent $149 on my current iron
[16:21:44] <Sync_> some philips thing with ceramic bottom
[16:40:36] <Deejay> gn8
[16:42:25] <Jymmm> Sync_: But does it auto lift? =)
[16:45:05] <Sync_> negative
[16:54:06] <andypugh> I just realised, you are not talking about soldering irons, are you?
[16:58:20] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: they have electronic versions now for a few $ that fit in your pocket, and apps that run on what they call smartphones :)
[16:59:03] <andypugh> Nah, that’ll never catch on.
[16:59:30] <CaptHindsight> heh
[17:00:04] <CaptHindsight> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curta An estimated 140,000 Curta calculators were made (80,000 Type I and 60,000 Type II). According to Curt Herzstark, the last Curta was produced in 1972
[17:03:51] <andypugh> Given that they colst about the same (in real terms) then as now, that means $140 million. Which over 30 years isn’t exactly vst profits, but probably provided a nice living.
[17:08:44] <CaptHindsight> It was not long before Herzstark's financial backers, thinking they had got from him all they needed, contrived to force him out by reducing to zero the value of all of the company's existing stock, including his one-third interest.
[17:09:02] <CaptHindsight> It was not long before Herzstark's financial backers, thinking they had got from him all they needed, contrived to force him out by reducing to zero the value of all of the company's existing stock, including his one-third interest.
[17:09:16] <CaptHindsight> These were the same people who had earlier elected not to have Herzstark transfer ownership of his patents to the company, so that, should anyone sue, they would be suing Herzstark, not the company, thereby protecting themselves at Herzstark's expense. This ploy now backfired:
[17:09:31] <CaptHindsight> without the patent rights, they could manufacture nothing. Herzstark was able to negotiate a new agreement, and money continued to flow to him.
[17:10:26] <andypugh> Good!
[17:11:03] <andypugh> I actually think that corporate raiders have become _less_ evil in the last 50 years or so.
[17:11:50] <andypugh> Back in the 50s some hostile takeovers were properly hostile.
[17:12:21] <andypugh> A very similar thing happened to Slingsby Sailplanes, but the inventor in that case was left with nothing.
[17:12:29] <CaptHindsight> and this was after this guy lived through Buchenwald
[17:13:13] <_methods> heh you should read the story of strippit if you think corporate raiders aren't as bad as they used to be
[17:14:56] <gregcnc> the kid behind the counter at trading post was fiddling with a curta when i went in their a couple summers ago. Made sure to tell me how much it was worth
[17:15:30] <CaptHindsight> or the history of Milton Friedman and how the Chicago School was used on several south American countries before the USA
[17:16:50] <andypugh> Thinking about it Dr Dre didn’t do too well with Monstger Cable.
[17:17:07] <CaptHindsight> _methods: are Robber Barons related to the Red Baron?
[17:17:37] <_methods> i'm sure
[17:17:48] <_methods> the pizza guy right?
[17:17:51] <CaptHindsight> he's the WWI ace that first delivered pizza to the troops
[17:18:00] <_methods> hahah
[17:18:11] <_methods> yeah that's the one i was thinking of
[17:18:12] <CaptHindsight> in 20 minutes or less
[17:19:14] <andypugh> Have you read Snow Crash?
[17:20:01] <CaptHindsight> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Crash
[17:20:08] <andypugh> “The Deliverator belongs to an elite order, a hallowed subcategory. He's got esprit up to here. Right now, he is preparing to carry out his third mission of the night. His uniform is black as activated charcoal, filtering the very light out of the air. A bullet will bounce off its arachnofiber weave like a wren hitting a patio door, but excess perspiration wafts through it like a breeze through a freshly napalmed for
[17:20:09] <andypugh> Where his body has bony extremities, the suit has sintered armorgel: feels like gritty jello, protects like a stack of telephone books.”
[17:20:13] <_methods> i love that book
[17:20:18] <andypugh> (He’s a Pizza delivery guy)
[17:21:51] <_methods> i'm surprised they haven't made a terrible movie out of it yet
[17:22:00] <andypugh> I signed up for a mountain biking course just because the bored looking (somewhat amazonian) woman manning the stall was reading Snow Crash.
[17:22:14] <CaptHindsight> a Sumerian Blockbuster
[17:23:02] <CaptHindsight> it would have to be made into a comic first
[17:24:03] <CaptHindsight> Enki and her Babylonian Bazoombahs
[17:25:28] <CaptHindsight> 300 and the sequels go back to ancient Greece
[17:25:42] <_methods> the takeshi kovacs books are a bit like snow crash if you're into that style
[17:25:45] <CaptHindsight> a few recent Noah films
[17:26:12] <_methods> altered carbon
[17:26:19] <CaptHindsight> yeah, it seems like a skipped period of ancient history in film
[17:26:44] * Gaston|Home is also a Neal Stepenson fan
[17:26:55] <andypugh> I loved the System of the World, but everyone I recommended that trilogy to hated it.
[17:27:27] <Gaston|Home> below average of his writing, but I plowed through them as well
[17:27:53] <_methods> i'll have to check out system of the world
[17:27:54] <andypugh> I think they are the best thing he has written. Absolutely stunning.
[17:28:13] <CaptHindsight> hollywood seems to be on Philip K Dick run of films
[17:28:14] <andypugh> Partly for being about 50% true :-)
[17:28:44] <andypugh> Dick wrote very short short stories. Films are very short
[17:29:23] <andypugh> The book I have read that seemed most like a screenplay at the time is Liege Killer
[17:29:27] <Gaston|Home> I am reading Diamond Dogs by Alastair Reynolds (or rather rereading).
[17:30:10] <Gaston|Home> Alastair Reynolds is a really nice story-teller
[17:31:11] <_methods> that sounds like an interesting book
[17:31:20] <_methods> might have to check that one out too
[17:31:52] <_methods> i'm reading red rising now
[17:32:01] <Gaston|Home> Read the whole series in that case, probably in the order they were written
[17:32:51] <Gaston|Home> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revelation_Space_universe
[17:33:21] <_methods> always look in for new books
[17:33:51] <Gaston|Home> Hmm, there are several in there I haven't read. i need to talk to amazon I think
[17:34:15] <_methods> i've been getting my books on google play lately
[17:34:25] <andypugh> I just found that Christopher Hinz wrote a book in 2012. So I bought it.
[17:35:34] <Gaston|Home> I'm sorta found of paper books, they don't pling or buzz to disturb me ;)
[17:35:43] <andypugh> I wish that C J Cherryh would get back to writing good stuff :-)
[17:36:28] <Gaston|Home> Greg Bear has also left Scifi more or less, I wish he comes back
[17:37:59] <andypugh> Cherryh has now written 17 books in the Foreigner series, and they are good. But not as good as her other stuff.
https://www.goodreads.com/series/40807-foreigner
[17:39:26] <Gaston|Home> Peter F Hamilton is a great story teller but I think you must be a fast reader and have quite long stretches of reading therwise you will lose your patience with the books
[17:39:58] <CaptHindsight> hmm, I haven't been able to find any sci-fi written after the 60's that I enjoy
[17:40:20] <andypugh> This is my favourite by Cherryh.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1197129.The_Pride_of_Chanur It’s unusual in that there is only one human in the whole series, and he is a minor, non-viewpoint character.
[17:41:10] <andypugh> Yes, I have read everything by Hamilton. If you like them, then Neal Asher is pretty similar. Possibly better. Certaily shorter.
[17:41:19] <Gaston|Home> Timothy Zahn used to be great haven't read anything from him in a while
[17:41:27] <Gaston|Home> andypugh: :P
[17:41:52] <Gaston|Home> andypugh: So you think my warning was fair?
[17:41:57] <andypugh> Yes.
[17:42:42] <Gaston|Home> I have to check C J Cherryh out
[17:43:25] <SpeedEvil> On a related topic 'The lathe of heaven'
[17:43:36] <andypugh> Oh, while we are at it, everything Charlie Stross writes is great. And he will throw away in one sentence an idea that Anne McCaffrey would have written 20 novels about :-)
[17:43:52] <SpeedEvil> Charles Stross is good
[17:44:19] <_methods> i love the atrocity archive stuff
[17:44:25] <Gaston|Home> Thanks for your tips! I think I have to write them down
[17:45:05] <SpeedEvil> Has someone mentioned Vinge?
[17:45:35] <andypugh> And, of course, if you read fantasy, then don’t be put off by the TV series, George R R Martin has pretty much re-invented that genre.
[17:45:36] <_methods> old man's war stuff is good too
[17:45:55] <andypugh> SpeedEvil: Not yet. But Vinge is brilliant too.
[17:46:18] <_methods> i still need to read red shirts
[17:46:29] <_methods> i heard that was pretty good
[17:47:20] <_methods> scalzi is funny like stross
[17:48:22] <SpeedEvil> I have decided that I don't care what I should like.
[17:48:53] <SpeedEvil> I was looking for a new Dresden Files book - and accidentally found a fanfiction with Dresden and ponies.
[17:48:58] <SpeedEvil> http://www.fimfiction.net/story/8657/the-dresden-fillies-strange-friends
[17:49:01] <SpeedEvil> Which I enjoyed
[17:49:29] <andypugh> Some fanfic is funny. Some is good. Some is just strange.
[17:49:40] <SpeedEvil> yeah - it varies enormously
[17:49:53] <SpeedEvil> Some exceeds the source.
[17:50:28] <andypugh> Oh, something I read religiously, every monday, wednesday and friday:
http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20021104#.VuNTxcfQboM
[17:50:38] <SpeedEvil> http://hpmor.com/ - may be an exampe
[17:51:11] <andypugh> As the Intro to Girl Genius goes “It is a world ruled by Mad Science (with mixed results)”
[17:51:11] <SpeedEvil> Harry Potter reimagined as if he was brought up by two physicists. Chapter 1: A Day of Very Low Probability
[17:56:30] <andypugh> Oh, sorry, I was reading a version of Harry Potter. I am a physicist.
[17:57:23] <andypugh> Though _very_ few physicists I know have children. But a correlation is not indicative of causation.
[18:54:55] <jdh> I know quite a few physicsts, they all seem to have children
[19:00:12] <andypugh> Not all of them.
[19:00:50] <andypugh> (assuming that you extend “know” to folk you see on IRC)
[19:04:56] <malcom2073> I'm going to throw out an assumption, that andypugh has no kids, and jdh does.
[19:05:26] <jdh> I do, but I am not a physicist.
[19:05:50] <malcom2073> It has more to do with the kind of people you often associate with
[19:06:04] <jdh> I work in a nuclear facility
[19:06:12] <andypugh> I am a physicist and I am 99.9999% certain I have no kids. But I have some blank spots when some zygotes could have been stolen without me knowing.
[19:08:46] <malcom2073> Weirder stuff has happened around here
[19:12:59] <jdh> I think a lot of children might be due to boredom
[20:23:56] <hatch789_> hey guys is there any way to determine if my signal pins are outputting something? I'm getting drift on my 7i43 board or the 7i49 resolver board. I'd like to see what voltage my signal pin is transmitting if that's possible?
[20:26:41] <andypugh> Well, yes, a multimeter is a good start
[20:27:00] <hatch789_> I've tried connecting between the signal and signal common
[20:27:06] <hatch789_> but don't detect anything there really
[20:27:17] <hatch789_> it should be DC voltage right?
[20:27:52] <andypugh> How fast does it drift?
[20:28:35] <andypugh> We talked a bit about this equally late last night, I think?
[20:29:00] <andypugh> Didn’t you say the drift stopped when you closed the position loop?
[20:29:22] <hatch789_> yup we did. but I never understood how to close the position loop you and pcw were just talking about that
[20:29:35] <hatch789_> so I'm reading a negative .25v
[20:29:41] <hatch789_> on both x and y right now
[20:29:50] <hatch789_> that's definitely something that would cause the drift
[20:31:09] <andypugh> Yes, that would be a fast drift.
[20:31:17] <hatch789_> I've turned on linuxCNC and stil negative voltage on both
[20:31:27] <hatch789_> so how ...more importantly why is it doing this suddenly?
[20:31:30] <hatch789_> I never had this before
[20:31:31] <andypugh> But, perhaps that is the 7i43 trying to correct the drift.
[20:31:43] <andypugh> So, it used to work?
[20:31:53] <hatch789_> well at this time I have the same when linuxcnc is off or on
[20:32:09] <hatch789_> I don't have the power button on linuxcnc turned on right now.
[20:32:18] <hatch789_> I just have the program running
[20:32:41] <hatch789_> yes it used to work. I have changed to a new power supply so perhaps that's the cause?
[20:33:01] <hatch789_> maybe the new PSU is slightly different voltage from the old one
[20:33:03] <andypugh> LinuxCNC turns off the PID when the machine is off.
[20:33:15] <hatch789_> PID is what?
[20:33:31] <andypugh> What hapens if you turn on LinuxCNC?
[20:33:37] <hatch789_> testing it now
[20:33:58] <Jymmm> andypugh: It wants dinner and a movie first.
[20:34:33] <andypugh> How did you ever set up a servo/resolver system if you don’t know what PID is?
[20:34:53] <hatch789_> I had help from you guys
[20:35:14] <hatch789_> I just turned on the power in LinuxCNC and still -.26v
[20:35:21] <hatch789_> on both X&Y so that's definitely my drift
[20:35:57] <hatch789_> so if the only thing I changed with the PSU then yes it's possibly the cause.
[20:36:42] <andypugh> That seems unlikely, actually. It’s been 5 minutes, after 5 minutes at 0.25 volts I would expect the system to be hard against the end-stops and bit of machinery pinging around the room.
[20:37:40] <hatch789_> I don't have the mill turned on right now
[20:37:50] <hatch789_> because as soon as I do activate the servos that happens
[20:37:55] <hatch789_> they just run until they hit the stops
[20:37:57] <gregcnc> are you still using the USB or another source?
[20:38:28] <hatch789_> I tried USB for a few attempts but it was doing this
[20:38:34] <hatch789_> then I went to a new PSU
[20:39:30] <andypugh> I am sorry, I would like to help, but it is 2am and i drank a nice bottle of wine. I need to sleep.
[20:39:41] <hatch789_> understood
[20:39:54] <hatch789_> I'm just trying to find out if there is a way for me to adjust my signal voltage down
[20:40:01] <hatch789_> or up in this case to get it close to zero
[20:40:23] <hatch789_> is there a HAL setting I can adjust that with?
[20:40:44] <andypugh> Youneed to work out why there is any signal voltage at all. Use halmeter to look at the PID inputs, outputs and error.
[20:42:01] <andypugh> The output of the 7i49 should be related to the PID output. You need to work out what is going on there, and why.
[20:42:36] <andypugh> And, no offence, but it sounds like you need to start by undersanding servo feedback, PID and HAL.
[20:42:40] <hatch789_> is there an easy way for me to determine which PID point to look at
[20:42:47] <hatch789_> based upon the physical pin on the 7i49 board?
[20:43:10] <andypugh> No. Any PID can drive any output, repending on how you set up the HAL file.
[20:43:25] <gregcnc> why would there be signal voltage before the PID is active?
[20:43:26] <hatch789_> I understand the PID loop (active real-time feedback mechanism) and vaguely how HAL inegrates with the said points
[20:43:52] <andypugh> But form the HAL config yo should be able to tell which PID controls which axis and which output it is associate with.
[20:44:17] <hatch789_> unfortunately my system was set up mostly manually by a friend so I can't use the built in tools that come with linuxcnc
[20:44:47] <gregcnc> hal meter doesn't work?
[20:44:48] <hatch789_> so when I do hal config my daughter boards are not even in there properly etc.
[20:45:02] <hatch789_> hence it's all useless when I try to look at it in there
[20:45:12] <hatch789_> hal meter works
[20:45:25] <hatch789_> i'd say PID 0 is my X
[20:45:29] <andypugh> Yes, you can. You just can’t use PNCConf. Evewrything else will work. Including, most imprtantly, looking at the HAL flle in a text editor.
[20:45:30] <hatch789_> PID 1 is my Y
[20:45:50] <hatch789_> I have it up in my TXT Editor right now
[20:46:51] <hatch789_> it looks like this is my PWM gen signal
[20:47:02] <hatch789_> setp hm2_7i43.0.pwmgen.00.output-type 2
[20:47:02] <andypugh> Well, you can look at every signal and pin in there in halmeter and see if the numbers make sense.
[20:47:24] <hatch789_> but how would I adjust the voltage if I find the perpetrator?
[20:47:37] <andypugh> That just sets it to a pwm type. Though type 2 is vaguely unuexpecte.
[20:48:29] <andypugh> Do you know where to find the documentation?
[20:49:10] <andypugh> Actually, type 2 might be right for 7i49:
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#pwmgen
[20:50:34] <andypugh> What is the pwmgen input value? Does that match the output voltage? Just follow the numbers and see where they stop making sense.
[20:50:56] <hatch789_> no
[20:51:06] <hatch789_> it's bouncing around at .004xxxxxx
[20:51:17] <andypugh> Check that the resolver position feedbacl makes sense, and increaes in the right direction. Just check all the basic stuff.
[20:51:23] <hatch789_> so that's why I'm confused when my multimeter is reading -.25
[20:51:32] <hatch789_> but hal meter shows .004xxxx
[20:52:02] <hatch789_> hm2_7i43.0.pwmgen.00.value ...this should be my signal voltage right?
[20:52:12] <hatch789_> it should match close to what my multimeter states I would think
[20:52:30] <andypugh> Is the 7i49 working? Do the resolvers work correctly? Are the right LEDs lit on the board?
[20:54:05] <andypugh> Just follow the signal paths, if nothing else you will learn how the system is put together, which has to be a good thing.
[20:54:07] <hatch789_> they appear to be
[20:54:16] <hatch789_> and when I move the hand controls it reads position accurately
[20:58:49] <pink_vampire> hi
[20:59:42] <gregcnc> how does it position correctly if it's drifting?
[21:01:54] <pink_vampire> i did some some phone calls
[21:03:08] <pink_vampire> ans they first say that is junk
[21:03:50] <pink_vampire> then they give me prices of 3000 to 5000 $
[21:04:18] <gregcnc> the no thank you quote
[21:04:54] <pink_vampire> but why?
[21:05:09] <gregcnc> doesn't matter why
[21:05:30] <pink_vampire> so what i can do?
[21:07:24] <pink_vampire> how much it will cost to remove the dovetails?
[21:08:55] <gregcnc> I don't know prb $3-5k, but I do know it's beer and TV time.
[21:23:02] <Sync_> pink_vampire: learn how to scrape
[21:23:22] <pink_vampire> I want to remove the whole dovetail
[21:24:28] <pink_vampire> and install linear rails with ball bearings
[21:25:28] <pink_vampire> but I'm not sure how to calculate the load on the rails.
[21:26:11] <pink_vampire> I know how to calculate the static load..
[21:27:11] <pink_vampire> but what is the load on the rails in machining this is the important thing.
[21:27:32] <pink_vampire> Sync_: ^
[21:27:40] <pink_vampire> someone..
[21:31:47] <SpeedEvil> pink_vampire: you're looking at this utterly wrong.
[21:31:53] <SpeedEvil> You are asking questions badly.
[21:32:09] <pink_vampire> what do you mean?
[21:32:12] <SpeedEvil> You need to start out with what you are trying to achieve, then what is your easiest path to it.
[21:32:29] <SpeedEvil> Do not fixate on one particular thing - scraping - as a cure-al that will resolve all your problems
[21:32:39] <pink_vampire> I want to make this machine usable.
[21:32:45] <SpeedEvil> It is usable.
[21:32:50] <pink_vampire> no!
[21:33:00] <SpeedEvil> It has specific limitations on what it can achieve.
[21:33:05] <SpeedEvil> Any machine has limitations.
[21:33:08] <Valen> whatever it is will probably cut statues out of wood just fine
[21:33:39] <SpeedEvil> You have to carefully work out if it's sensible trying to improve your device - or for example sell it on ebay and buy a better one
[21:33:42] <Valen> you need to define your task in order to define all the other stuff
[21:33:46] <SpeedEvil> with the same money
[21:33:49] <SpeedEvil> precisely.
[21:34:06] <SpeedEvil> Many of the inaccuracies in machines can be worked round at the cost of time.
[21:34:26] <SpeedEvil> So how much you're doing with it also matters, and there is a trade betwen accuracy and metrology
[21:34:52] <pink_vampire> now if i take a cut the z axis push back/ sideways and it's make pooor finish and destroy the end mills.
[21:35:32] <Sync_> stupid question, is your quill locked?
[21:35:35] <os1r1s> pink_vampire This with your g0704?
[21:35:45] <SpeedEvil> cutting what? With what diameter endmill? Reducing cut forces will in many cases help
[21:36:44] <SpeedEvil> Very few machines can do all we might ask of them.
[21:36:58] <Valen> feeds and speeds right?
[21:37:04] <pink_vampire> if i would use it manually, and lock the gib of the z each cut, it will be ok, but for a cnc, I have to use z axis without freedom
[21:37:15] <Valen> is there a photo of this thing?
[21:37:52] <pink_vampire> http://i.imgur.com/EtZX0s9.png
[21:38:17] <os1r1s> What happened to it?
[21:38:43] <Valen> I meant of the whole machine
[21:38:44] <pink_vampire> this is an old pic, but now it's better but I still have a gap
[21:39:06] <os1r1s> pink_vampire I thought it was working fine. What happened?
[21:39:08] <pink_vampire> and the dovetail don't touch all the way
[21:39:45] <pink_vampire> it's ok on some parts, and very bad on other parts
[21:39:55] <Sync_> another thing you can consider is adding gasstruts
[21:40:21] <SpeedEvil> Sync_: to ensure that it's always preloaded even with cutting forces?
[21:40:41] <pink_vampire> on the bottom of the z axis is very tight, an also on the top, but on the middle it's veeery loos
[21:41:07] <pink_vampire> http://i.imgur.com/2sWNS4d.png
[21:41:13] <pink_vampire> this is the dovetail
[21:41:15] <Sync_> no, that the torque the over hanging spindle produces is reduced
[21:41:25] <Sync_> giving better loading of the dovetail
[21:41:27] <pink_vampire> you can see the problem
[21:41:34] <SpeedEvil> Sync_: ah
[21:41:43] <os1r1s> pink_vampire Is that from wear?
[21:41:50] <pink_vampire> os1r1s: no
[21:42:05] <pink_vampire> the dovetails just cut vary poor.
[21:42:22] <os1r1s> pink_vampire How old is the machine?
[21:42:27] <Sync_> how are you lubing the ways?
[21:42:41] <pink_vampire> so after the lapping it's much better, but not perfect.
[21:42:53] <pink_vampire> from the mid 2014
[21:43:50] <pink_vampire> Sync_: I try to use oil and now i'm with dry graphite lubrication
[21:44:22] <pink_vampire> the graphite help the make the surfaces more even..
[21:45:21] <pink_vampire> so what I think I to remove the whole dovetails, and use THK rails.
[21:45:27] <Sync_> graphite is abrasive
[21:45:40] <Sync_> use way oil.
[21:46:13] <pink_vampire> Sync_: it have layer of graphite on each side.
[21:46:35] <pink_vampire> with oil it was un usable
[21:46:50] <pink_vampire> with the graphite the run the best.
[21:47:24] <Sync_> well, if you like wearing your ways down quickly, use graphite
[21:47:25] <pink_vampire> but not perfect very far from prefect
[21:47:41] <pink_vampire> http://www.thkstore.com/products/linear-motion/linear-motion-guides/shs-v-block.html
[21:48:01] <pink_vampire> as you can see in the table in the link.
[21:48:17] <pink_vampire> there is "Dynamic rating"
[21:48:52] <pink_vampire> this is the maximum load that I can apply on the rail
[21:49:19] <pink_vampire> so.. how I can calculate / estimate it?
[21:49:23] <os1r1s> pink_vampire That looks low to me ....
[21:49:33] <pink_vampire> low?
[21:49:33] <os1r1s> I don't think those rails are meant for this duty cycle
[21:50:20] <pink_vampire> but every industrial cnc use them.
[21:51:12] <os1r1s> pink_vampire Those look like the small router type ones
[21:51:16] <os1r1s> Maybe not ...
[21:51:20] <os1r1s> I'm sure someone will chime in
[21:51:21] <OdinYggd> Not every cnc.
[21:51:36] <pink_vampire> all the new ones,
[21:51:43] <OdinYggd> But most of the newer ones have gone to low friction dovetails with linear ball guides
[21:51:51] <OdinYggd> Allows rapid speeds in excess of 1000 IPM
[21:53:16] <pink_vampire> same principals as those rails..
[21:54:21] <pink_vampire> so.. how I know with rail I need?
[21:54:34] <pink_vampire> like.. what size?
[21:55:04] <os1r1s> pink_vampire I think it would be a lot cheaper to just order a new column
[21:56:04] <pink_vampire> even if i get new one from grizzly it will be cheap made and shit quality..
[21:56:19] <pink_vampire> so anyway I will need to do it..
[21:57:10] <pink_vampire> os1r1s: how it's on your machine?
[21:57:32] <os1r1s> pink_vampire Perfect
[21:57:43] <os1r1s> Matt inspects them before they leave his shop
[21:57:52] <os1r1s> And scrapes/laps the ways as necessary
[21:58:11] <pink_vampire> who is matt?
[21:58:31] <os1r1s> from PrecisionMatthews
[21:58:36] <os1r1s> The one that sells the PM25-mv
[22:00:10] <pink_vampire> you have full contact on your Z axis all the way?
[22:01:08] <os1r1s> Yes
[22:01:11] <pink_vampire> you can't push a filler gauge in any place
[22:01:20] <os1r1s> No. Not at all
[22:01:56] <pink_vampire> even if you press the drill press quill against something?
[22:02:16] <os1r1s> Mine is tight to slide
[22:03:01] <pink_vampire> so to trash the g0704
[22:03:17] <pink_vampire> and get the PM-25MV ?
[22:03:42] <os1r1s> I would just get a new column if I were you
[22:03:55] <os1r1s> And if it isn't better send it back
[22:04:02] <os1r1s> And keep doing that till you get a good one
[22:04:18] <os1r1s> Is it CNCed? Did you add ballscrews?
[22:05:30] <pink_vampire> yes, I convert it to the 1025 servos.
[22:05:36] <pink_vampire> oz/in
[22:05:58] <pink_vampire> the electronics are good,
[22:06:13] <os1r1s> pink_vampire Mine is still 4-5 weeks away from fully running
[22:06:24] <os1r1s> I'll let you know if I have any issues once I get there
[22:07:03] <pink_vampire> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/benchtop-machines/273984-cnc-tormach.html
[22:08:29] <pink_vampire> " The Z has always been a little tight towards the top of the column, which I've seen numerous others have similar issues"
[22:10:53] <os1r1s> I'm reading the conversion.
[22:11:00] <os1r1s> I dont' have that issue on mine
[22:11:16] <os1r1s> If i did I would get replacement parts under warranty
[22:12:49] <pink_vampire> after it's move up and down 1000 times..
[22:13:02] <pink_vampire> it's start to get the gap
[22:14:52] <os1r1s> pink_vampire I would think at that part I would just adjust my ways
[22:15:16] <pink_vampire> http://i.imgur.com/F3oI8YW.png
[22:15:28] <pink_vampire> this is the problem on my machine.
[22:16:15] <os1r1s> Gotcha
[22:16:20] <pink_vampire> so if you cut the moving part on the Z axis get pushed back
[22:16:31] <pink_vampire> and it's make poor finish.
[22:16:36] <os1r1s> then you could just order a new Z-carriage
[22:16:53] <pink_vampire> so yeah it will cut but not good.
[22:17:11] <pink_vampire> you will have to take very light cuts
[22:17:43] <pink_vampire> the Z-carriage it's ok +-
[22:18:08] <os1r1s> I think there are plenty that use g0704's and I haven't seen many report the problem you see
[22:18:28] <pink_vampire> the dovetails are shit. and to fix them I need someone with larger machine to re done the dovetails.
[22:19:05] <pink_vampire> because it technically work
[22:21:25] <pink_vampire> now if you want to cut you can just move the z to a certain height and make a cut or you have to lock it?
[22:23:09] <os1r1s> I wouldn't settle for that. I would replace the parts that were broken
[22:23:54] <OdinYggd> >Machining a carriage
[22:23:59] <OdinYggd> Probably not a good idea!
[22:24:07] <pink_vampire> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=285506&d=1435751067
[22:24:14] <OdinYggd> they are usually precision ground, then scraped to a final finish
[22:24:24] <pink_vampire> do you see the finish on the part?
[22:25:30] <pink_vampire> now look on the finish on part that I made
[22:25:32] <pink_vampire> http://i.imgur.com/VtiL3GE.png
[22:26:42] <pink_vampire> it's not mirror finish and have like "lines"
[22:27:56] <pink_vampire> os1r1s: OdinYggd SpeedEvil ^^^
[22:28:38] <SpeedEvil> GEtting a mirror finish is quite hard in many or most cases
[22:29:18] <OdinYggd> And in a slideway, it is undesireable
[22:30:11] <OdinYggd> On the old school box ways and dovetails before linear ball cartridges were a thing, you would intentionally frost the surface after achieving flatness in order to give it oil retention capability
[22:30:30] <OdinYggd> that's why bridgeport ways have that flake pattern to them- its scraped in on purpose to help waylube stick
[22:32:07] <pink_vampire> OdinYggd: so just live with that?
[22:32:28] <pink_vampire> i'm not sure what do you mean..
[22:32:29] <OdinYggd> I'm not quite sure how this is supposed to work
[22:32:38] <OdinYggd> that looks like a T-nut, not a linear rail cartridge
[22:32:43] <SpeedEvil> The frosted pattern does not affect accuracy
[22:32:59] <SpeedEvil> there is enough contact points that it is irrelevant
[22:33:05] <OdinYggd> ^
[22:33:08] <pink_vampire> look at the finish on the "t-nut"
[22:33:18] <pink_vampire> I make it on the machine..
[22:33:22] <OdinYggd> It doesn't affect accuracy, but the oil retention it provides makes it move easier
[22:33:33] <SpeedEvil> And decreases wear
[22:33:45] <OdinYggd> That part is a mill finish? Or was it ground.
[22:34:22] <pink_vampire> this T-nut is a part that i made.. I link it just to show you the poor finish that I'm getting
[22:35:24] <OdinYggd> That doesn't look bad to me though
[22:35:32] <OdinYggd> The picture is making it hard to qualify
[22:35:41] <SpeedEvil> What actual surface finish are you getting.
[22:35:47] <SpeedEvil> That is - numbers.
[22:36:05] <pink_vampire> how I can measure it?
[22:36:34] <pink_vampire> SpeedEvil: ^
[22:51:02] <archivist> mitutoyo surftest
[22:52:35] <pink_vampire> archivist: one day...
[22:53:01] <pink_vampire> I need to become rich first..
[22:56:45] <SpeedEvil> you might start with a USB microscope
[23:00:30] <archivist> if you search and wait ebay often has cheap stuff, I got an old style surftest and some roughness standards for about £50
[23:05:20] <archivist> http://www.electronicsurplus.com/mitutoyo-178-903e-60-surftest-iii-surftest-iii-profilometer-system
[23:06:34] <pink_vampire> SpeedEvil: I have nice spencer microscope
[23:07:33] <pink_vampire> archivist: i have ha no idea how it's even work
[23:07:55] <archivist> it has a small diamond stylus
[23:08:30] <hatch789_> guys what would make my resolvers be jumping all over the place even when my mill is not powered on? it's like linuxCNC is seeing several hundredths of variation on both of my resolvers for no reason
[23:08:31] <archivist> it rides across the roughness
[23:08:35] <SpeedEvil> pink_vampire: then use it to inspect the surface, you can work out how deep things are by how much the defocus is
[23:09:04] <pink_vampire> do yo want me to bring it here..
[23:09:14] <archivist> hatch789_, electrical noise
[23:10:23] <hatch789_> but the mill is off
[23:10:45] <hatch789_> ok so maybe my power supply is bad somehow?
[23:10:50] <hatch789_> I'll try another one
[23:10:52] <archivist> scope
[23:11:11] <hatch789_> can hal meter show the incoming power supply?
[23:11:16] <hatch789_> hal scope I mean?
[23:11:17] <pink_vampire> ok
[23:11:45] <pink_vampire> it's very heavy but it's on my table now
[23:12:02] <pink_vampire> let me setup the camera
[23:12:08] <pink_vampire> and light!!
[23:12:20] <archivist> I use a real scope for electrical noise
[23:18:17] <hatch789_> I used to have a real scope but not anymore. Is there a way to use HAL Scope to see the incoming power?
[23:31:39] <pink_vampire> eventuay
[23:32:05] <pink_vampire> eventually i did it
[23:39:37] <pink_vampire> http://i.imgur.com/Ky4Orum.png
[23:39:46] <pink_vampire> archivist: SpeedEvil ^
[23:40:02] <pink_vampire> what we can learn from it?
[23:42:09] <pink_vampire> ?
[23:46:17] <SpeedEvil> Scroll in and out and you get a sense of the height profile of the roughness, as well as the linear extent
[23:47:19] <SpeedEvil> If the height is simply a sawtooth at the frequency the cutter touches the work - advance per rev * edges - then you are simply seeing the toolmarks with perhaps the tool being off-axis
[23:47:39] <SpeedEvil> If you get higher frequencies, you're seeing vibration of some sort
[23:53:21] <pink_vampire> I'm trying now
[23:56:25] <pink_vampire> I have a dial on the microscope in microns
[23:57:39] <pink_vampire> and with 45X10 magnification it's about 2 microns or less on the dial
[23:58:59] <Crom> back at home
[23:59:20] <pink_vampire> so it
