#linuxcnc | Logs for 2016-03-05

[00:09:58] <pink_vampire> XXCoder: don't work :(
[00:10:09] <XXCoder> yeah? darn
[00:10:23] <pink_vampire> and why I'm here?
[00:10:27] <pink_vampire> BRB
[00:11:53] <pink_vampire> XXCoder: much better now
[00:13:24] <pink_vampire> some how I open the old IRC client.. everything look so weird for sec..
[00:13:33] <XXCoder> lol
[00:14:39] <pink_vampire> and I have 140 days uptime!
[00:15:31] <XXCoder> mines all of 5 days lol
[00:16:10] <pink_vampire> maybe I will add more hard drive..
[00:16:22] <pink_vampire> so it will drop the up time :(
[00:57:10] <pink_vampire> I'm done with the simplification of the part.
[00:59:57] <pink_vampire> now I have another beauty to design... very small gear. but that will be easy to machine with 1/8" end mill..
[01:02:16] <pink_vampire> i'm thinking maybe to do something that look a bit steampunk like leonardo da vinci gears
[01:13:46] <XXCoder> cool
[01:17:49] <yasnak> Heres the part I'm working on finishing (before I fall asleep at work) http://imgur.com/s1SL9EW
[01:18:35] <XXCoder> jeez and I though few of parts I see at work was bad
[01:19:34] <pink_vampire> yasnak: what is that??
[01:19:53] <yasnak> pivot cage
[01:20:02] <yasnak> for back surgery, when you really want to hate yourself
[01:22:36] <pink_vampire> what do you mean?
[01:28:51] <yasnak> they aren't very fun, back surgery is usually a surgery that corrects the issue but is even more painful then before
[01:30:53] <pink_vampire> I know that, but I don't know what is "pivot cage"
[01:38:22] <pink_vampire> finished the gears.
[01:38:37] <pink_vampire> they become very cute.
[01:42:15] <pink_vampire> http://i.imgur.com/paEAjWC.png
[01:42:55] <squibs> Just learned a buddy lost part of his thumb and index finger :(
[01:44:26] <pink_vampire> what?? how??
[01:48:54] <XXCoder> ow
[01:54:51] <yasnak> had that happen once, someone ran a short board through the really dull wood planer
[01:55:45] <yasnak> whenever my bosses come back into the shop they usually end up bloody. idk what my boss was thinking but he ended up getting his finger sucked into an endmill in the mill
[01:55:54] <yasnak> people scare me, haha
[01:56:28] <XXCoder> heh I use my hands to talk
[01:56:49] <XXCoder> I keep minium of in least foot between any running tool and my hands
[01:57:31] <pink_vampire> I have ti keep my nails..
[01:57:36] <pink_vampire> to*
[01:57:59] <XXCoder> nah you dont HAVE to. ypou want to.
[01:58:08] <pink_vampire> can't type normal :( :)
[01:58:11] <XXCoder> quite a difference between have to and want to
[01:58:20] <archivist> ex boss sais Ill make a coffee then you can take me down the hospital, hiding his hand behind his back, he has a .8 mod cycloidal slot in a finger
[01:58:51] <XXCoder> puncher?
[01:59:43] <pink_vampire> guys, stop scare me!! please...
[02:22:52] <Deejay> moin
[02:46:32] <maxcnc> Good Morning from Germany
[02:46:57] <maxcnc> hard day ahad plasmas worming up after cold night in the shop
[02:47:07] <XXCoder> worming up eh
[02:48:00] <maxcnc> As US goes to sleep Europ awakes
[02:48:02] <maxcnc> and asia is on holiday
[02:49:49] <maxcnc> till later ---
[03:49:24] <yasnak> Not quite
[03:49:29] <yasnak> Some of us just never sleep ;)
[03:49:38] <XXCoder> I'm in usa and awake
[03:49:59] <yasnak> My eyes are only going to last a little longer
[03:50:02] <yasnak> Get too dry
[03:52:16] <XXCoder> lol http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/photoshop/8/8/4/510884_v1.gif
[03:53:20] <XXCoder> rest http://www.cracked.com/photoplasty_1970_12-times-machines-rose-to-overthrow-their-human-overlords/
[04:08:26] <pink_vampire> there is an easy way to cut internal key with the milling machine?
[04:08:45] <pink_vampire> XXCoder: ^
[04:08:50] <pink_vampire> someone?
[04:09:02] <XXCoder> not too sure
[04:11:28] <pink_vampire> you know.. for the gear to
[04:11:38] <pink_vampire> to lock on the shaft
[04:15:21] <pink_vampire> cute little machine
[04:15:23] <pink_vampire> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRumO4Ev2RY
[04:21:08] <pink_vampire> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reErqhcUE7g
[04:21:48] <pink_vampire> this is the tool for the Keyway?
[04:21:55] <archivist> use a broach for internal keyway
[04:23:48] <archivist> that last video is slotting
[04:25:00] <XXCoder> interesting file machine at first video
[04:26:04] <pink_vampire> for making die
[04:26:14] <XXCoder> making matches is interesting
[04:26:58] <archivist> I restored a filing machine last year http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=new+wonder+filing
[04:27:45] <XXCoder> lol at ending
[04:27:53] <pink_vampire> yeah
[04:27:56] <XXCoder> ya know
[04:28:16] <pink_vampire> http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2015/2015_09_04_filing_machine/IMG_1975.JPG
[04:28:26] <XXCoder> it IS possible to make actual matches with metal body. it would be hard to hold while lit and it wont last long, not without wood to keep fire going.
[04:28:30] <pink_vampire> broken heart
[04:29:05] <XXCoder> wha the
[04:29:08] <XXCoder> how do it do that
[04:29:17] <XXCoder> second video
[04:29:22] <archivist> that is a bit of scrap, we used to make clock keys of that shape
[04:29:56] <pink_vampire> XXCoder: you need to make them from from zirconium metal..
[04:30:22] <XXCoder> ah so it dont rotate
[04:30:51] <XXCoder> pink_vampire: so it just cuts by force
[04:31:02] <XXCoder> or does zirconium metal react with material to remove?
[04:31:15] <pink_vampire> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vdkda0ZClbA
[04:31:29] <archivist> it is just a vertical cut, see slotting machine
[04:32:21] <XXCoder> ok
[04:32:33] <archivist> I hate it when they name a process incorrectly
[04:33:37] <archivist> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRbOux9NfeU
[04:34:36] <yasnak> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pH3jWBnBmZo
[04:34:39] <yasnak> How I broach haha
[04:34:50] <yasnak> Obviously not for keyways, I don't do keyways
[04:36:53] <pink_vampire> so I need to get a broaching bar?
[04:39:08] <yasnak> What are you trying to do?
[04:39:33] <archivist> you can write gcode to do slotting
[04:41:19] <pink_vampire> http://i.imgur.com/xJxNO0S.png
[04:41:41] <pink_vampire> it's a gear, and I want to hold it on a shaft..
[04:41:51] <archivist> I have used this actual slotting machine http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/File:Claymills25.jpg
[04:42:38] <pink_vampire> I don't have a slotting machine :(
[04:42:52] <pink_vampire> there is a way to do it with the mill?
[04:43:31] <archivist> that haas video showed you
[04:44:11] <archivist> write the gcode to do slotting like that, and grind a suitable tool
[04:44:29] <archivist> or just hand file it
[04:45:24] <pink_vampire> and how I can lock the spindle?
[04:46:46] <archivist> they probably use a servo spindle to align the tool
[04:47:55] <yasnak> can you knurl it?
[04:48:03] <pink_vampire> what??
[04:48:21] <pink_vampire> knurl?
[04:49:40] <pink_vampire> I don't have a lathe
[04:50:14] <pink_vampire> but how you can make the keyway with the knurl tool?
[04:55:48] <pink_vampire> I'm going to sleep almost sunrise. as a vampire I can't Handle that..
[06:51:28] <_methods> just buy some broches and do it in an arbor press
[06:51:50] <_methods> s/broches/broaches
[06:52:22] <_methods> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tAz5YDFtAs
[06:56:10] <witnit> pink_vampire: if the material you are cutting is rather soft, just place a cutoff blade in your vise and put your part in the spindle, lock down spindle and use it like a verticle broach
[08:31:33] <enleth> anyone here experienced with chinese CO2 lasers and their failure modes?
[08:33:31] <enleth> I have one with a spliced HV cable - the tube must have come with a plug already on the cable and it was too big for a hole in sheet metal wall, so the dumbass doing assembly cut the cable and made a pigtail splice, then wrapped it in some kapton tape
[08:34:45] <enleth> long story short (heee heee), HV arced through the kapton and hit a screw in a terminal block hanging off some wires some 2-3cm away from the splice
[08:35:57] <enleth> that was N or L
[08:36:23] <enleth> the arc lasted for maybe a second, the guy operating the laser was quick to cut power
[08:36:33] <witnit> praise that guy
[08:36:37] <Sync_> well
[08:36:41] <enleth> but now it's borked
[08:36:44] <Sync_> probably just something blown in the power supply
[08:37:11] <enleth> I disassembled the HV plug and put it on the cable properly discarcing the pigtail splice completely
[08:37:18] <enleth> but no dice, doesn't lase
[08:37:37] <witnit> internal fuse for power supply?
[08:37:44] <enleth> didn't check yet
[08:37:53] <witnit> what model is the machine?
[08:38:08] <enleth> good joke
[08:38:09] <enleth> it's chinese
[08:38:26] <enleth> I may have a photo somewhere, hold on
[08:38:36] <Sync_> they are all the same after all
[08:41:27] <enleth> witnit: http://i.imgur.com/08mQZ3i.jpg
[08:42:43] <enleth> witnit: under the side door: http://i.imgur.com/uUu03Hc.jpg
[08:43:31] <enleth> and the burnt splice: http://i.imgur.com/pSF6l04.jpg
[08:44:13] <enleth> if you zoom in you can see a slightly molten and charred edge of a screw guard in the terminal block
[08:45:21] <archivist> so it arced to the blue wire, trace that see what else died
[08:45:31] <enleth> fun fact: the inside lighting is a LED bulb with three LEDs, two of them died when the short occurred
[08:45:54] <enleth> archivist: I'm pretty sure it's input power
[08:46:16] <archivist> noise like that can kill all sorts
[08:46:24] <enleth> interestingly, the control board survived
[08:46:48] <enleth> the thing turns on, homes the axes and runs them just fine
[08:47:25] <archivist> I have known some faults killing 20 parts
[08:48:38] <archivist> it may be part working but signals/drives to the hv psu could well be sick
[08:49:22] <enleth> there is a faint hiss when I hold the "test" button, but I have yet to investigate it
[08:50:01] <archivist> any safety input may hold off the hv as well
[08:50:46] <enleth> I'll be surprised if there are any safety circuits in that thing, but still a good point
[08:51:31] <enleth> one thing I could use is some way to check HV with the tube disconnected, but I don't have any HV test equipment
[08:52:13] <enleth> and I'm not in the mood for photonicinduction's methods
[08:54:56] <archivist> no lid switch?
[08:55:28] <witnit> as archivist said trace the wire that it arced into. probably replacing that board would be the easiest cheapest and most likely fix. but no guarantee its going turn on after replacements
[08:55:37] <Sync_> enleth: you can just have it arc against ground
[08:55:49] <Sync_> the supplies are current mode, so it has to be able to do that
[08:56:44] <witnit> maybe there is a better laser driver out there you can replace it with while you are at it and keep the old controls
[08:57:44] <enleth> jesus fucking christ, every single wire in there is exactly the most wrong color possible
[08:58:06] <enleth> earthing for HV is red, live is green-yellow
[08:58:29] <enleth> the ground return for HV is also spliced with kapton
[08:59:03] <enleth> of course it's black where it exits the HV supply but then it's spliced with a yellow wire
[09:06:33] <enleth> yeah, it definitely arced to live or neutral. that goes into the HV supply itself, the LED lighting and the low voltage supply for control boards
[09:06:40] <enleth> LV supply survived
[09:06:46] <enleth> no idea if it passed anything through
[09:07:00] <Sync_> just take the hv supply apart, if everything else works the fault must be there
[09:07:14] <enleth> will do
[09:08:50] <archivist> some dork put mains on the ground trace, sent the kit back for repair, every IC was blown, took ages to fix
[09:09:40] <CaptHindsight> Which Chinese philosopher said: "it worked well enough or long enough for you to pay for it"?
[09:10:41] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: PT Barnum
[09:15:45] <__rob2> anyone know where I can get precision 10mm 5mm bore bearings
[09:16:05] <__rob2> 90% of people selling them don't have datasheets
[09:16:13] <__rob2> other 10% I cant find
[09:16:18] <Tom_itx> fafnir
[09:16:22] <Tom_itx> sk
[09:16:24] <Tom_itx> etc
[09:16:37] <__rob2> ohh direct from the makers ?
[09:16:51] <Tom_itx> they would have the data sheets
[09:17:19] <CaptHindsight> ask VXB about their balls http://www.vxb.com
[09:17:25] <__rob2> yea, well I found a few datasheets, that specify C(X) grades for the bearings for radial play
[09:17:42] <__rob2> but not actually found a site I can just buy from that lists these parameters
[09:18:01] <Tom_itx> barden makes precision bearings too
[09:18:53] <CaptHindsight> 10mm x 5mm x ?? or do you mean something else?
[09:18:58] <enleth> __rob2: check the data at the manufacturer, then see who sells genuine products of that manufacturer and buy based on the part number
[09:19:38] <__rob2> yea, but they often have some code number then extra digits for the tolerance spec
[09:19:55] <__rob2> which no one seems to have, guess they just sell the 'default' versions
[09:20:33] <__rob2> tbh, I have some ezo ones that seem pretty decent
[09:20:49] <__rob2> but I think I can feel some radial movement
[09:21:03] <__rob2> thats with a 4 bearings on the shaft
[09:21:14] <Sync_> preload axially
[09:21:30] <__rob2> preload how ?
[09:21:52] <Sync_> with whatever contraption you might want to use
[09:22:00] <Sync_> common are nuts or springs
[09:22:08] <gregcnc> http://www.precisionballs.com/ any grade you may need
[09:22:14] <Sync_> 4 bearings seems excessive, that's overconstraining the shaft
[09:22:16] <CaptHindsight> he needs a ;ink to info on what preload is and how it works
[09:22:19] <__rob2> sync, so its pushing down on the bearing ?
[09:22:32] <CaptHindsight> ;ink / link
[09:22:34] <__rob2> sync, main reason is a mounting issue of hte encoder
[09:22:56] <Sync_> so?
[09:23:02] <Sync_> you mount the encoder after the bearing block
[09:23:39] <__rob2> I can't get the encoder into the housing, its 4 layers deep, the 2 bearings at the bottom, just mean the axle doesn't flop about while i mount the next layer
[09:24:06] <__rob2> with just 1 bearing holding it, it has quite alot of tangential movement
[09:24:18] <__rob2> which means the glass encoder disc is hitting the reader
[09:24:44] <Sync_> http://machinedesign.com/site-files/machinedesign.com/files/archive/motionsystemdesign.com/images/main-types894.jpg
[09:24:45] <__rob2> 2 bearings holds the shaft vertical
[09:24:58] <Sync_> http://evolution.skf.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/New-generation-of-super-precision-bearings-for-screw-drives8-355x300.png
[09:25:25] <Sync_> http://machinedesign.com/site-files/machinedesign.com/files/archive/motionsystemdesign.com/images/Ball-screw-end-mounted.jpg
[09:25:33] <Sync_> (note: angular contact bearings)
[09:25:46] <gregcnc> without seeing the design and knowing it's function it's hard to advise
[09:26:14] <CaptHindsight> http://web.mit.edu/2.75/fundamentals/FUNdaMENTALs%20Book%20pdf/FUNdaMENTALs%20Topic%2010.PDF
[09:26:41] <Sync_> dat first page
[09:26:50] <Sync_> the eye cancer is real
[09:26:53] <__rob2> the stackup is bearing, encoder, bearing, timing pulley, bearing
[09:27:05] <__rob2> timing pulley belt is quite tight
[09:27:07] <__rob2> T2.5 thing
[09:27:21] <__rob2> didn't want that tension to effect the encoder
[09:27:29] <__rob2> only a 5mm shaft
[09:27:50] <Sync_> why not, you just have to be aware that you are overconstraining the shaft
[09:28:06] <__rob2> it does run free
[09:28:25] <__rob2> no stiffness at all
[09:28:46] <__rob2> just didn't want deflection in the axle
[09:28:51] <__rob2> from the tension on the timing pulley
[09:28:56] <__rob2> the encoder is super tight tolerance
[09:29:19] <__rob2> +-50 um radial
[09:29:28] <Sync_> that's not really tight
[09:30:13] <__rob2> ohh, I thought it was :)
[09:30:33] <__rob2> tight for me
[09:30:42] <CaptHindsight> you could slip a hair through there
[09:31:01] <Sync_> try again with the 0 stripped there
[09:31:07] <Sync_> but that's still not bad if it is TIR
[09:31:11] <__rob2> also, the timing pulley bores are very poor
[09:31:32] <__rob2> so they are no concentric
[09:31:37] <__rob2> the bore and the teeth
[09:31:49] <gregcnc> fix them?
[09:32:05] <__rob2> well I'll get ones with no bore and bore them myself
[09:32:07] <Sync_> yup, most of them are suprisingly loose
[09:32:19] <__rob2> might just do it on the mill vs the lathe
[09:32:26] <Sync_> CaptHindsight: that's a suprisingly good pdf
[09:32:32] <__rob2> dont seem to be able to grip them in a 3 jaw chuck without runout
[09:32:41] <Sync_> use a 4 jaw
[09:32:56] <__rob2> dont have one yet
[09:33:03] <gregcnc> soft jaws
[09:33:20] <__rob2> not even sure I can get a chuck for this proxxon that would take softjaws
[09:33:28] <__rob2> its mini desktop thing
[09:34:13] <gregcnc> indicating pulley teeth on the mill would be fun
[09:36:00] <__rob2> Sync, I think it is TIR, they just spec it as mounting tolerance
[09:36:10] <__rob2> 50 um radial, 100 um tangential
[09:36:23] <__rob2> Gap 150 to 300 um
[09:36:36] <Sync_> so like the regular heds5xxx encoders
[09:36:41] <Sync_> they are pretty robust
[09:36:56] <__rob2> AEAT 9000
[09:36:58] <__rob2> 17 bit one
[09:37:06] <__rob2> HEDS-8969 disc
[09:37:26] <Sync_> yeah all the avago stuff has about the same requirements
[09:37:54] <__rob2> they do say code monotony is subject to mounting accuracy
[09:38:01] <__rob2> so hoping to get the datasheet values
[09:38:09] <__rob2> which is why I want everything super tight
[09:38:46] <Sync_> well if you don't preload your shaft axially you won't have a lot of stiffness in that direction
[09:38:59] <Sync_> as ball bearings need radial clearance to run
[09:39:09] <__rob2> I have shaft collars
[09:39:21] <__rob2> I turned them so they contact only the inner race
[09:39:43] <__rob2> I could push them hard against opposite bearings
[09:39:44] <__rob2> and tighten
[09:39:49] <__rob2> that will give it some kind of preload
[09:39:50] <Sync_> just a collar without any means of preloading the shaft will not provide enough force
[09:40:28] <__rob2> right, I could stick a spring at the end
[09:40:49] <__rob2> pulling hte axle down, then that will pull each shaft collar against the inner race
[09:40:51] <__rob2> of each bearing
[09:41:10] <Sync_> where and how the spring is depends heavily on your bearing setup
[09:42:49] <Sync_> and if you want a spring or not
[09:42:59] <__rob2> http://snag.gy/1kml0.jpg
[09:43:04] <__rob2> that gives you some idea of the setupo
[09:43:11] <Sync_> usual setups are in the O arrangement
[09:44:00] <__rob2> the flat part, is where the encoder sits
[09:44:21] <Sync_> that shows nothing how you are actually supporting the shaft
[09:44:47] <__rob2> well its just push fit though the bearings with shaft collars at the moment
[09:45:17] <__rob2> 2 collars with grub screws on either side of that 'plate' part
[09:46:18] <Sync_> two collars with grub screws have no means of preloading the shaft
[09:46:27] <Sync_> no wonder you are getting runout
[09:47:59] <__rob2> So I guess a strong spring at hte bottom of the shaft, should pull each collar against its bearing
[09:48:07] <__rob2> and preload it
[09:48:25] <Sync_> the collar will move then
[09:48:43] <Sync_> just machine a thread in the screw where the collar sits and put a nut there
[09:49:11] <Sync_> of course you will then need a spacer between the outer races so that they have something to rest against
[09:49:22] <Sync_> but that will preload the bearing assembly
[09:49:34] <__rob2> right
[09:49:39] <__rob2> I could drill through the shaft
[09:49:42] <__rob2> or partially
[09:49:45] <__rob2> so the collar cant mov e
[09:49:57] <Sync_> sure, but you cannot preload it properly
[09:50:16] <Sync_> and you want to have that adjustable
[09:50:28] <Sync_> as the bearings set or when you have to change them
[09:50:37] <__rob2> yea, makes sense
[09:50:49] <__rob2> only thing about the thread, how do you get the nut on
[09:50:56] <__rob2> if its only a partial thread
[09:51:12] <__rob2> unless the shaft is 5mm with m6 thread
[09:51:14] <__rob2> I suppose
[09:51:28] <Sync_> why would it be a partial thread?
[09:51:29] <__rob2> then of course you cant get any bearings on between threads
[09:51:29] <Sync_> http://www.projectsbyzac.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/2005-c7-975mm-ballscrew-machined-end-specs.jpg
[09:51:52] <__rob2> ahh right, just at the end
[09:51:52] <__rob2> ok
[09:51:58] <Sync_> no
[09:52:06] <Sync_> in between the bearings and the shaft end
[09:52:13] <Sync_> where the 12 is
[09:52:28] <Sync_> that is btw the regular fixed/floating config
[09:53:07] <enleth> opened the HV power supply, no obvious signs of damage, fuse is OK
[09:53:20] <Sync_> measure all the semis
[09:53:42] <__rob2> mint, that makes sense, thanks Sync
[09:53:44] <enleth> there is a "test" button on the supply itself, I could probably use that to see if the laser control board is fried
[09:54:23] <__rob2> one thing, If you can always preload a bearing to reduce raidal play
[09:54:47] <__rob2> what is the point in them selling high spec ball bearings with less radial play
[09:55:09] <witnit> CaptHindsight: that bearing pdf starts out like a 5th grade essay and turns into straight MIT course
[09:55:27] <witnit> looks like a wonderful guide
[09:55:28] <Sync_> well, in some applications you don't want preload
[09:55:43] <Sync_> because it is either not needed or doesn't fit in there
[09:55:55] <__rob2> right, but if you can tolerate preload, its a cheaper option as afar as bearings are concerned
[09:55:59] <__rob2> for the same runout
[09:56:09] <Sync_> and usually circularity also increases with less radial clearance
[09:56:14] <Sync_> it depends
[09:56:28] <witnit> I like my bearing tight, toight like a tiger
[09:56:40] <Sync_> it also depends on what the manufacturers spec
[09:57:07] <__rob2> saw one that had radial play spec'd from 10um for tight
[09:57:12] <__rob2> to 80 um for their loose
[09:57:21] <__rob2> think there were 6 grades mabye
[09:57:32] <Sync_> well, you are always preloading stuff where precision matters
[09:57:39] <Sync_> and usually use angular contact bearings there
[09:57:47] <Sync_> which make no sense at all without preload
[09:57:52] <gregcnc> radial play and runout are not the same thing
[09:58:00] <Sync_> yes
[09:58:07] <Sync_> but it also depends on the manufacturer
[09:58:09] <Sync_> it is a huge trap
[09:58:22] <gregcnc> ?
[09:59:11] <Sync_> well not with radial gap and runout, but there are a few values that differ in terminology from company to company
[09:59:19] <gregcnc> yes
[09:59:23] <Sync_> some will give you runout and gap together
[09:59:27] <Sync_> not speccing runout at all
[09:59:40] <Sync_> some will just tell you how concentric the inner race runs to its ball surface
[09:59:42] <Sync_> and such
[09:59:44] <Sync_> super annoying
[10:00:22] <witnit> __rob2: do you have a picture of something which is very similar to what you are trying to achieve?
[10:01:11] <__rob2> not really
[10:01:50] <__rob2> but I think I have a plan now
[10:22:52] <minibnz> hi all hows things..
[10:24:03] <witnit> everything is going great except...my ambition, its just gone
[10:24:12] <witnit> hbu?
[10:24:55] <minibnz> i orderd ball screws for my seig X2 mill.. only X and Y for now.. but i have serious questions that i would like some answeres for..
[10:24:55] <minibnz> the shop says not take the nuts off the screws.. now how exactly do i install these screws into my machine without taking the nuts off.. i think i need to machine the nuts down so they will fit..
[10:25:14] * Jymmm hands witnit a lit stick of tnt
[10:26:51] <minibnz> i guess i can wrap the nuts in gaffa whilei turn the shafts in the lathe.. and when i machine off the parts of the nuts that i need to but installation baffles me..
[10:27:11] <minibnz> to pull the existing ones out i screw the nuts off..
[10:28:33] <witnit> *with a blank stare I look down to and see a lit stick of dynamite in hand, mouth agape, a sizzle breaks the silence as I have drooled, smiting the lone wick*
[10:28:50] <minibnz> hehheh
[10:29:37] * Jymmm watches (from a distance) as the WATERPROOF fuse reignites and continues closer and closer to it's destination
[10:30:15] <witnit> sorry minibnz we are practicing our haikus
[10:30:46] <minibnz> thats ok wit me.
[10:31:24] <witnit> is this a custom build?
[10:31:29] <Jymmm> I'm not sure WHY they call waterproof fuse "safety fuse".
[10:31:41] <witnit> or some kind of replacement job?
[10:32:13] <gregcnc> so you don't have go back and try to light it again
[10:32:26] <witnit> yeah maybe its safer because its more reliable?
[10:32:30] <minibnz> yeah at the moment my mill has leadscrews and lots of backlash, these ballscrews are just generic screws from a cnc shop in melborne
[10:32:51] <Jymmm> gregcnc: Ok, that would make sense I guess.
[10:32:56] <Sync_> minibnz: if you want to spend hours putting the balls back in, have fun
[10:32:56] <witnit> what machine and what model screws?
[10:32:56] <minibnz> ONly a dumb arse goes back to relight a fuse...
[10:33:07] <witnit> darwin fuses
[10:33:11] <minibnz> heheh
[10:33:16] <Sync_> or just machine a tool with the root diameter
[10:33:23] <Sync_> that you can screw the nut onto
[10:33:42] <Jymmm> As a test, I cut 1" of 20s safety fuse, placed it between two bricks, lit it, and the damnthing took off across the yard like a rocket 40 feet!
[10:34:44] <minibnz> the mill is a seig X2 and these are the screws http://stores.ebay.com.au/CNC-AND-CUPCAKE-WORLD/16mm-Ballscrew-Single-Nut-/_i.html?_fsub=413481019&_lns=1&_sid=657086089&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322
[10:35:46] <Sync_> it doesn't matter what screw it is, they all work the same more or less
[10:36:15] <minibnz> i was thinking maybe i could make a carrier to screw the nuts off, on too. ie use my 4th axis or a lathe and cut a rod that a rounded thread @5mm pitch,
[10:36:35] <witnit> eep noisy little machine :P
[10:36:50] <Jymmm> IT was at this point my pyroness was a lil freaked out. the balance of the various rolls of fuses then went into the all metal water tight container never to be seen of again, or at least until I have 500ft clearance on all sides =)
[10:36:59] <minibnz> oh yeah its noisy.. esp now with steel drive gears.
[10:37:55] <witnit> there seems to be multiple peopleconverting these maybe youtube has a good video of someones retrofit you can gain some ideas from
[10:38:07] <gregcnc> it takes 5 minutes to reload a small ball screw. it takes hours to be certain you have all the balls.
[10:38:17] <witnit> ^
[10:38:21] <minibnz> hheheheheheh
[10:38:28] <Jymmm> BIG FLUFFY TOWEL helps =)
[10:38:32] <minibnz> thats what scares me...
[10:39:11] <witnit> i cant believe how loud it is
[10:39:13] <minibnz> the peice i make doesnt have to be perfect or smooth just has to hold the balls.. i guess that would be worth a try..
[10:39:21] <witnit> ;)
[10:40:09] <gregcnc> right a rod or tube turn to a hair under root diameter is all you need done it many times
[10:40:36] <minibnz> oh right i dont need the grooves
[10:40:57] <minibnz> thanks Gregcnc you saved me half a day :)
[10:41:08] <gregcnc> if you ever buy a nut without a screw tt ships with the tube inside
[10:41:27] <minibnz> i was wondering how that was done..
[10:41:44] <witnit> its so nice being able to come in here and know you can cut a guys work day in half with one sentence
[10:42:31] <witnit> so many people have done it for me, I always get a little bit excited when ever I have a solution or proper answer for a person
[10:42:33] <minibnz> hey i didnt say that was half a days work.. it would be fun for me :) i like turning its very soothing :)
[10:43:03] <minibnz> fun or work i still appreciate the tip.. i dont want to loose my balls..
[10:43:42] <Sync_> minibnz: I already told you
[10:43:59] <minibnz> i think i might get an old bed sheet and spread that on the workroom floor..
[10:44:06] <witnit> I dont think he understood the root diameter term
[10:44:16] <witnit> I didnt until greg reworded it
[10:44:18] <minibnz> sorry Sync_ i didnt notice :( you were right first :)
[10:44:57] <minibnz> i just missed his line i think i was busy gettin ebay link.
[10:46:41] <zeeshan|2> minibnz: if you dont want to refill the balls in the machine
[10:46:53] <zeeshan|2> make a little plastic shaft that fits inside
[10:46:54] <zeeshan|2> snug
[10:46:59] <zeeshan|2> carboard works too
[10:47:01] <gregcnc> lol
[10:47:19] * zeeshan|2 didnt read abvoe :P
[10:47:20] <minibnz> i have to cut a key slot into the shafts to hold the handles.. i want to keep the hand crank as a option so these standard ends will still need to be modified a bit need to make the shoulder longer.
[10:47:58] <gregcnc> i can'tt even see where sync_ wrote about it
[10:48:11] <gregcnc> but i'm trying to learn fusion at the same time
[10:48:13] <minibnz> three lines above the ebay link.
[10:48:32] <minibnz> oh yeah fusion will do that to ya..
[10:49:35] <gregcnc> missed it with the fuse thing
[10:50:07] <minibnz> ahh the off topic chatter :)
[10:51:05] <gregcnc> machining ball screws is fun when you get them without machined ends
[10:51:32] <Sync_> they are just hard on the outside, if you keep your first pass below that, all is well
[10:52:30] <minibnz> there are some holes in the nut flange that look like oil or grease holes. and i have to basically cut across one of the holes. i am thinking of filling it with a bit of hot glue to stop the chips getting inside.. anyone got a better idea?
[10:52:56] <minibnz> ahhh so go for a decent bite to start off dont baby it..
[10:53:53] <Sync_> yes
[10:54:02] <minibnz> to be honest i will probably let my mate (the owner of the lathe i plan on using) machine the shafts down for me.. but its still good to know.
[10:54:02] <zeeshan|2> but its cooler if you baby it
[10:54:03] <Sync_> and if possible use carbide tooling
[10:54:06] <zeeshan|2> you see glowing sparks !
[10:54:07] <Sync_> dem sparks!
[10:54:31] <Sync_> I like how my motorcycle sprockets machined
[10:54:35] <minibnz> yeah his lathe has coolant and he aint scared of a shower..
[10:54:42] <Sync_> coolant is not needed
[10:54:58] <Sync_> it is actually not good at all
[10:55:02] <Sync_> if you turn hard stuff
[10:55:14] <zeeshan|2> thermal fatigue :{
[10:55:16] <Sync_> as you take temperature out of the chip
[10:55:24] <minibnz> oh i thought it extends the life of the cutter tip?
[10:55:29] <Sync_> and shock cool the insert
[10:55:30] <zeeshan|2> depends on the carbide grade
[10:55:40] <minibnz> ahhhh
[10:55:50] <minibnz> hotter metal is softer.. i see
[10:56:00] <Sync_> that is why cermets work
[10:56:05] <Roguish> you can always anneal the end before machining. much easier to turn and thread then.
[10:56:09] <witnit> would this be a situation where a grinder would be better?
[10:56:12] <Sync_> no
[10:56:20] <Sync_> there is no real benefit to grind the ends
[10:56:25] <Sync_> as they are soft below the surface
[10:56:49] <minibnz> ahh i have a thread already there that i will use i just need to extend the flat shoulder to fit a T5 pulley on..
[10:56:53] <Sync_> for real™ ballscrew ends you would grind them for precision issues, but on a X2 it does not matter
[10:57:17] <minibnz> welll on that topic.. is it worth the floating bearings?
[10:57:37] <minibnz> or good old thrust bearing be fine. its a baby of a mill
[10:57:37] <zeeshan|2> hard turning/milling is cool when done right
[10:57:41] <zeeshan|2> you dont even need to anneal
[10:57:54] <zeeshan|2> cause the heat you generate anneals the materials at the cutting front
[10:57:54] <Sync_> minibnz: calculate your whip speed
[10:58:01] <Sync_> on Y it usually does not matter
[10:58:04] <Sync_> but it is good to have on X
[10:58:34] <minibnz> please explain whip speed... or i will have to go to wikipeadia.. :)
[10:58:55] <gregcnc> AKA critical shaft speed
[10:58:58] <minibnz> i am planning on supporting both end...
[10:59:06] <Sync_> there is a limit on the rotational speed before the screw will try to deathwobble
[10:59:22] <minibnz> the left hand side is where i have my motor and the right has a bearing and the handle.
[10:59:24] <Sync_> which will be significantly higher if you support it on both sides
[10:59:42] <witnit> maybe if the machine was a bit heavier or higher quality, you would want to go on with all this effort. It seems though the machine is never going to be as tight as the work you are about to put into it.
[10:59:53] <Sync_> as seen in one of my earlier links
[10:59:54] <Sync_> http://machinedesign.com/site-files/machinedesign.com/files/archive/motionsystemdesign.com/images/main-types894.jpg
[11:00:28] <minibnz> ahh i dont think i will really go that fast to worry about the shaft whipping, but who knows maybe ballscrews will make this mill into somethign else unexpected.
[11:00:49] <Sync_> it is not too much of an issue to just add a support bearing on the other side
[11:00:53] <gregcnc> what do you mean by floating bearing?
[11:01:00] <Sync_> it is not rigidly mounted
[11:01:10] <Sync_> so either the outer race or the shaft can move axially
[11:01:30] <gregcnc> yes, me too, but what does minibnz say
[11:01:30] <Sync_> because thermal expansion and other things
[11:01:36] <minibnz> the floating bearings allow the shaft to twist a little.. like flapping around.
[11:01:47] <Sync_> no
[11:01:50] <Sync_> you don't want that
[11:02:02] <gregcnc> which is why i ask
[11:02:16] <zeeshan|2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkk4HK16ojc
[11:02:17] <minibnz> more like self centered bearings i guess..
[11:02:18] <zeeshan|2> seksi
[11:02:50] <__rob2> Sync, looking through your pics from earlier, you only preload 1 end of that shaft ?
[11:02:51] <Sync_> yes, cbn is seksi
[11:03:02] <Sync_> yes __rob2
[11:03:05] <gregcnc> i got some cbn recently it's fun
[11:03:10] <Sync_> see above why
[11:03:12] <__rob2> so the other end just has a support bearing ?
[11:03:17] <Sync_> yes
[11:03:25] <Sync_> you can use a fixed one on the other end
[11:03:33] <Sync_> but that will need *serious* consideration
[11:04:00] <__rob2> ok, so technically any deflection in the axis could mean at 1 end you have less tolerance than the other
[11:04:08] <__rob2> due to the support bearing having more radial play
[11:04:20] <__rob2> so at the preload end, you would have 0
[11:04:28] <__rob2> the other you might have some fraction of movement
[11:04:28] <Sync_> you can make your radial play 0
[11:04:35] <Sync_> you can just not fix it axially
[11:04:46] <Sync_> because heat expansion will make your shaft bow
[11:04:54] <__rob2> ahh, I see
[11:05:04] <__rob2> so maybe spring the other end would work
[11:05:12] <__rob2> then there is always some variable preload
[11:05:14] <__rob2> on both ends
[11:05:20] <Sync_> no
[11:05:25] <Sync_> you want a fixed and one supported end
[11:05:37] <__rob2> yea, but the supported end is what I am talking about
[11:05:48] <Sync_> it does not matter much
[11:05:58] <__rob2> if you are not loading down a nut against the bearing, then that bearing is not 0
[11:06:00] <Sync_> how long is your shaft and what diameter?
[11:06:11] <__rob2> well mine is 5mm and 1cm long
[11:06:27] <__rob2> but I am talking generally
[11:06:29] <Sync_> yes, but your shaft is not loaded in any way besides axial loads
[11:06:30] <minibnz> mine is 16mm diam and 400 long.
[11:06:35] <Sync_> there is no generally
[11:06:42] <Sync_> each application has to be engineered
[11:07:14] <minibnz> my original lead screws had nothing supporting them after their nuts.
[11:10:08] <minibnz> i will make up a small aluminium mandrel to hold the nuts, and stick a magnet on the end to help loading on and off easier.. a bit of work for a one time job but meh...
[11:10:53] <minibnz> the ends of the shafts have a 10mm step so a little magnet will make me sweat a little less :)
[11:11:30] <Sync_> o0
[11:11:35] <Sync_> just put a zip tie around the open end
[11:11:49] <minibnz> damn you and you rlogic..
[11:11:50] <Sync_> if you are worried that you drop the nut off
[11:12:13] <minibnz> thats too simple. i like it...
[11:13:19] <minibnz> i was more worried that as i was manouving the bits on and off the shaft would slip off. but the zip tie thing is a good addition... like a saftey pin..
[11:13:41] <Sync_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPVr3LiJQ8Y zeeshan|2
[11:13:50] <minibnz> im much happier about the pending operation now..
[11:14:00] <Sync_> unlikely
[11:14:24] <Sync_> http://s219.photobucket.com/user/whitehedr/media/Ball%20Nuts/IN5O4513web.jpg.html
[11:14:51] <alex____> hi, how can i start linuxcnc 2.7.4 ver. fullscreen ?
[11:16:39] <minibnz> loook at the stream of hot chips comeing off that shiz.... it looks like a FLAME..
[11:17:33] <zeeshan|2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNwcGlGNNn8
[11:17:36] <zeeshan|2> i love seco
[11:17:38] <zeeshan|2> educational :)
[11:18:01] <Sync_> yeah seco and sandvik make good videos
[11:18:14] <zeeshan|2> i wish it was a bit more HD
[11:18:14] <zeeshan|2> :D
[11:18:22] <Sync_> wat, solid CBN inserts
[11:18:32] <witnit> oh, i need cad drawings for a carbide insert im making a holder for, anyone know where I would find this? dcmp831enk
[11:18:59] <minibnz> those CBN inserts are amazing...
[11:19:05] <zeeshan|2> do you mean dcmt?
[11:19:25] <minibnz> no way you could use them while handcranking a lathe.. you would need to be a in a full leather suit..
[11:19:35] <Sync_> http://www.mitsubishicarbide.net/mhg/enuk/turning_inserts/no_srs/20042706
[11:19:39] <Sync_> minibnz: no problem at all
[11:19:57] <witnit> very similar Sync_
[11:20:22] <witnit> I think I can make use of it, thanks!
[11:20:25] <minibnz> i guess you wold use them to turn titanium?
[11:20:27] <Sync_> you take a lexan shield on a magnet base in the chip spray minibnz
[11:20:31] <Sync_> why?
[11:20:37] <Sync_> Ti is relatively easy to machine
[11:21:21] <witnit> machinability charts are extremely useful if you can define the word machinability
[11:21:51] <minibnz> i need to make a insert for my air rifle.. the orignial part was bent and worn.. so was thinking of some sort of hard arse metal to put in, a bit like a valve seat, but only 14mm ID
[11:22:13] <Sync_> use something like toolox33
[11:22:14] <witnit> minibnz: would a drill bushing be usable?
[11:22:17] <Sync_> it machines very nicely
[11:22:19] <Sync_> and is hard
[11:22:23] <Sync_> "hard"
[11:22:45] <Sync_> only 33HRC but that is usually good enough
[11:23:35] <minibnz> the part will be simply a ring, the only feature it needs is a 5mm wide slot that at one spot
[11:25:07] <minibnz> a drill bushing might be the shiz..
[11:28:30] <minibnz> the damn guberment says i am not allowed to fix my own air rifle.. it meant to be done by a licensed gunsmith.. :( i understand for a powder charge gun.. would not be trying this.. but its a air rifle...
[11:29:05] <minibnz> they wants a paper trail if it ever failed and caused injury..
[11:29:10] <SpeedEvil> I was investigating legality of a air cannon to launch stuff into the sky to take pictures.
[11:29:16] <SpeedEvil> In the UK.
[11:29:29] <SpeedEvil> It turns out that it's probably a firearm if it has more than a tiny muzzle energy.
[11:29:33] <minibnz> i am never going to sell this thing its awesome when it works...
[11:29:34] <SpeedEvil> Unless it's underwater
[11:29:48] <SpeedEvil> My prototype design has now grown a 55 gallon drum
[11:30:04] <minibnz> ahh nice..
[11:30:40] <minibnz> people say Au has some bad gun laws. i just point to the UK and say i dont got it that bad..
[11:31:19] <SpeedEvil> I can own a shotgun or rifle.
[11:31:27] <SpeedEvil> Handguns are basically forbidden though
[11:31:55] <minibnz> but dont you need to be on a property for the shotgun and rifle?
[11:32:31] <SpeedEvil> ?
[11:32:41] <minibnz> i thought the UK had some silly rule that basically kept the city peoples from owning them
[11:32:47] <SpeedEvil> 'yes'
[11:33:36] <SpeedEvil> you need some reason to do it - it is not of right.
[11:33:57] <minibnz> oh its not that much different from here..
[11:34:43] <minibnz> we have the same thing.. i got me a letter in the post the other day saying i need to go to the gun range two more times before the end of the month to satisfy my genuine reason
[11:36:08] <minibnz> for my license i need to go 4 times for target shooting and 2 times for hunting per year..
[11:37:01] <minibnz> <sarcasim> its so hard to go shoot my gun once every two months </end sarcasim>
[11:37:34] <minibnz> this way i get to tell the other half i HAVE to go shooting :) the guberment is making me do it..
[11:38:31] <maxcnc> hi ;-)
[11:38:36] <witnit> minibnz: you cant fix your own gun?
[11:38:37] <witnit> lol
[11:38:48] <minibnz> if i really wanted to i could do my entire years requirement in one day.. the range has a lane setup where you pay $5 you get a lane and 5 .22lr shots and a tick in the book..
[11:39:08] <witnit> gotta ask minibnz you from germany?
[11:39:35] <minibnz> witnit yeah any more than sanding scratches is pretty much forbiden.. Australia. the latest state in the nazi empire...
[11:39:43] <minibnz> all hail big mal..
[11:39:45] <witnit> omg aus
[11:39:53] <maxcnc> im in germany
[11:40:20] <witnit> australia is like one big social science experiment I swear
[11:40:21] <minibnz> my air rifle cost me $2500 but its silenced and semi auto.. its a FX monsoon..
[11:40:56] <witnit> does it come with someone to shoot it?
[11:41:03] <minibnz> i have shot about 5000 pellets thru it.. its deadly accurate..
[11:41:20] <minibnz> heheheh no the nanny does not come along to hold my hand.. yet...
[11:42:00] <minibnz> i can empty a magazine of 12 shots out in about 8 seconds and they all end up in a 30mm circle at 50meters..
[11:42:10] <witnit> maxcnc: are your gun laws as bad as minibnz?
[11:42:44] <minibnz> on a BR30 score sheet i can get 2300 without breaking a sweat.. 3000 is the max score.
[11:44:20] <witnit> this is pretty http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r188/foxback/Picture081.jpg
[11:44:26] <maxcnc> no guns here in germany in privat hands if no licence from gov providet
[11:44:43] <minibnz> actually i might go get more practice with my .222 i can only get 5 shots inside a 80mm at 100m with that.. its a different kettle of fish..
[11:45:13] <witnit> sorry about your luck maxcnc seems like the gun laws never improved there
[11:46:51] <minibnz> in AU you need a genuine reason.. (ie member of a club) then you get a police background check and have to do a saftey course to get the arms license.. for cat A and B... cat A is air rifles and rimfiire and shotgun and cat B is Bolt action lever action centre fire.. no Semi's and no auto's..
[11:47:25] <Roguish> here in the us, all you need is money
[11:47:28] <minibnz> and generally no silencers for the public.. my air rifle is a freak for some reason its a semi and its silenced..
[11:47:41] <minibnz> and its a Cat A..
[11:48:16] <witnit> sigh... next thing you know they will have stop and search checkpoints for the common citizen
[11:49:09] <minibnz> if you want a Semi auto center fire or rimfire or a silencer you need to be a profesional shooter with a cat C or D license. i am working on it for that you need shooting contracts with property owners and $20Million insurance policies...
[11:49:21] <witnit> insane
[11:49:22] <Erant> I moved from the Netherlands to the US. The Netherlands pretty much has the same laws, be a member of club and you can own sort of whatever you want.
[11:49:36] <Erant> The US is obviously on the other side of the spectrum.
[11:50:22] <minibnz> its pretty much been 20years to the day since the port arthur masacre in tasmainia that sparked all the tight gun laws..
[11:50:27] <witnit> funny, i can buy hand grenades and you cant even buy a toy gun
[11:50:28] <witnit> lel
[11:51:10] <minibnz> ahhh but i can walk down the street at night (any street) and not get shot cuz i am white...
[11:51:20] <Erant> minibnz: Did the tight gun laws help?
[11:51:25] <minibnz> might get stabbed but not shot..
[11:51:37] <witnit> yeah but can you defend yourself?
[11:51:39] <witnit> NOPE
[11:51:42] <minibnz> Erant hard to tell...
[11:51:53] <Erant> witnit: Against... what
[11:52:08] <minibnz> witnit not with my guns no... but i do get priority service from the cops..
[11:52:11] <witnit> anyone willing to kill you
[11:52:29] <Erant> It's what I have a bat for.
[11:52:35] <witnit> a bat?
[11:52:38] <witnit> like a stick?
[11:52:49] <Erant> Baseball bat.
[11:53:01] <mow> take a bat to a gun fight
[11:53:02] <mow> lol
[11:53:07] <Erant> There's no guns.
[11:53:09] <Erant> That's the point
[11:53:21] <minibnz> if i have any problems like someone at my door i call 000 ask for the five oh and say i am going to start putting my gun together they should hurry.. and they will be here pronto.... i might eat a little carpet when they get here but thats ok..
[11:53:43] <witnit> so if your house is getting robbed and your family hog tied by a gang of thiefs you will use your stick on them? lel
[11:54:07] <Erant> I think that's less of a problem than you make it out to be.
[11:54:16] <minibnz> my stick is a 35mm 2 foot section of bright steel...
[11:54:17] <witnit> tell that to brazil
[11:54:29] <Erant> I don't live in brazil. So...
[11:55:11] <witnit> Murica https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DzcOCyHDqc
[11:55:17] <mow> you need something like a bamboo boobi trap at the door
[11:55:32] <mow> pointy kind
[11:56:04] <minibnz> seriously we dont have that sort of problem here really.. the few home invasions we get are by bikie gangs and the odd asain gang attackign people that have done them wrong.. ie not really your average joe..
[11:56:06] <maxcnc> the theme here is well off topic
[11:56:06] <Erant> I dunno, there has to be a middle ground here somewhere. The amount of accidents that happen in the US with kids accidentally getting at their parents guns...
[11:56:10] <witnit> im not concerned with your general citizen for the most part, personally im more concerned with the type of things that germany did to their people
[11:56:43] <Erant> maxcnc: k, euh... I can machine a lower receiver in the US!
[11:56:46] <maxcnc> ok im done for this week have a GN8 and a nice weekend
[11:56:46] <witnit> if im not mistaken similar gun laws were in place when people were getting hauled into traincars
[11:56:54] <minibnz> they need to be locked up.. they can get finger print safes that are perfect, quick and will keep most kiddes away from the gun..
[11:57:13] <Erant> witnit: Yah. If Trump gains more popularity here...
[11:57:18] <witnit> ^^^^^^
[11:57:25] <witnit> anything can happen!
[11:57:27] <witnit> be prepared!
[11:57:27] <Erant> Me being a migrant (white, but still)...
[11:57:35] <minibnz> oh Trump is gonng make things rather wild..
[11:57:53] <witnit> do you trust your guberment now? :P
[11:58:22] <minibnz> its going to be a good show.. i have the pickled popcorn stacked up in my doomsday bunker ready.....
[11:58:23] <Erant> It's not _my_ government. That's the problem.
[11:58:28] <Erant> (I can't vote)
[11:58:44] <minibnz> just buy one..isnt that how its done/
[11:58:45] <minibnz> ?
[11:58:58] <mow> we need thing wilded up
[11:59:20] <minibnz> i dunno he seems like a bit of a loose cannon..
[12:00:00] <minibnz> dont get me wrong i am sure he has good idea of what he needs to do but he gets almost emotional when he gets attacked..
[12:00:04] <mow> the people have all the power not washington... but will they unite... that's always the problem
[12:03:50] <Erant> Anyway, all that aside, I have to go machine some more plastic for my chip evacuation system.
[12:35:55] <Loetmichel> hmm, anyone has a good and cheap german source for saw blades for the hacksaw, the puk saw and the scroll saw to cut steel, aluminium and brass sheet metal without the blades going dull after a few cm?
[12:41:50] <archivist> I use the cheapest carbon blades, more cut per £
[12:42:56] <Loetmichel> archivist: i dont want to change the blade every 2cm cut
[12:43:11] <Loetmichel> so i am searching for something with a bit more stamina ;)
[12:45:59] <archivist> how you use the saw makes it last longer
[12:46:12] <Wolf_> ^
[12:47:06] <archivist> never ever use a blade that has cut steel on brass
[12:47:45] <SpeedEvil> Loetmichel: what are you trying to cut?
[12:48:01] <archivist> I was getting more cut on the cheap blades than buying bahco
[12:48:27] <SpeedEvil> Carbon steel is an awesome cutting material at low speeds
[12:48:31] <Wolf_> cut tons of steel in my shop with bandsaw
[12:49:01] <DaViruz> archivist: can you elaborate on that brass steel-deal?
[12:49:02] <witnit> archivist: reason for not sharing blades?
[12:49:03] <archivist> a pack of 10 blades for a £ v one bahco
[12:49:16] <Wolf_> blades make it 6-12 months, usually they get bent and need replaced
[12:49:33] <witnit> DaViruz: we must know!
[12:49:36] <archivist> steel takes the edge off, same for files
[12:50:11] <witnit> oh, i thought you were going to tell us something about oxidation and metal transfering to the blade causing some weird friction welding thing to happen lel
[12:50:20] <DaViruz> me too :(
[12:50:24] <Wolf_> dull cutting edge will clog with soft materials fast
[12:50:25] <archivist> when I was scrapping stuff I could use 5 blades a day
[12:50:27] <witnit> what a let down
[12:50:29] <witnit> :P
[12:51:29] <Wolf_> granted that my bandsaw has a 108” blade in it (i think)
[12:51:34] <archivist> really annoying if an expensive blade lasts the same as a cheap one
[12:52:57] <enleth> laser mystery Krzyż na kopule stanowił najwyższy punkt ówczesnej Warszawy. Dlatego stał się środkiem układu współrzędnych, który posłużył do sporządzenia szczegółowych planów miasta przez Williama Lindleya. To było centrum ówczesnego stołecznego wszechświata.
[12:53:02] <enleth> Bez tej kopuły nie ma Warszawy ani jej panoramy. Rozumieli to komuniści, którzy po przejęciu obiektu przez Ministerstwo Kultury kończyli jego powojenną odbudowę planując tu salę koncertową. Po śmierci Stalina i odwilży październikowej 1956 roku kościół zwrócono jednak parafii ewangelicko-augsburskiej.
[12:53:09] <enleth> fuck
[12:53:11] <enleth> sorry
[12:53:15] <enleth> accidental middle click
[12:53:22] <witnit> lel
[12:53:24] <enleth> had been reading some news reports
[12:53:49] <enleth> anyways, laser mystery somewhat solved - the tube cracked
[12:54:02] <Sync_> noice
[12:54:16] <enleth> I suppose the arcing was just the HV power supply trying to maintain constant current - by increasing the voltage
[12:54:25] <archivist> I bet that let the hv rise therefore arc
[12:54:41] <enleth> that sounds more likely than some power shenanigans *causing* the tube to crack
[12:54:49] <archivist> yup
[12:55:21] <witnit> maaan the bridgeport mill would be so much easier to clean if it used dovetail lockdowns instead of T slots, NTM you would worry about puckering the arear around the slots
[12:57:23] <HoloPed> anyone wants to see my DIY laser engraver , almost finished
[12:57:24] <HoloPed> https://lazygeckoblog.wordpress.com/2016/03/05/building-a-laser-engraver-part-1/
[12:57:48] <witnit> imagine a simple dovetail system that ran the whole length of the table, you could just slide your vise down and lock it back in anywhere and since it would square against a surface you would not have to worry about it twisting when tightening a T nut. it would just be forward and down pressure
[12:58:08] <witnit> jigging would be so much faster
[12:59:12] <witnit> HoloPed: you making these from scratch?
[12:59:36] <HoloPed> witnit, yup
[12:59:40] <enleth> witnit: does anyone use dovetail slots in mill tables?
[12:59:40] <witnit> very nice work
[13:00:01] <enleth> as for the laser, the only question that remains is - what can make the tube crack?
[13:00:21] <witnit> poor engineering :P
[13:00:24] <HoloPed> enleth, failure in the cooling system
[13:00:43] <HoloPed> and a manufacturer defect
[13:00:50] <HoloPed> *pr
[13:00:53] <HoloPed> *or
[13:00:55] <HoloPed> dammit
[13:00:57] <enleth> it cracked at the very front
[13:01:06] <HoloPed> China K40 ?
[13:01:27] <HoloPed> where did you guy the tube, and how much was it
[13:01:33] <HoloPed> what wattage
[13:01:39] <HoloPed> *buy
[13:01:45] <enleth> 40W chinese, bought from a local chinese laser importer
[13:01:45] <HoloPed> can't type for chits today
[13:01:49] <witnit> lol poor HoloPed and his all thumbs
[13:01:57] <HoloPed> enleth, thats your answer right there
[13:02:19] <HoloPed> you got hit with China tax, happens to everyone, pay up and move on
[13:02:33] <HoloPed> its part of the deal when buying cheap parts from china
[13:04:07] <witnit> ^
[13:06:09] <enleth> HoloPed: TBH it may still be cheaper to replace those buggers than to buy a non-chinese tube
[13:06:16] <HoloPed> enleth, I know
[13:06:21] <HoloPed> whats why we all do it
[13:06:31] <HoloPed> talk to the importer guy, maybe he will replace it
[13:06:55] <witnit> quality made used products > new chinese trash
[13:07:29] <Sync_> the chinese co2 tubes are actually not too bad
[13:07:52] <Erant> I've thought about taking a laser and just chucking it in my mill head.
[13:09:20] <witnit> buying poorly made products for personal use is usually okay if enjoy working on the items you buy. i just can't handle having unreliable machines because downtime and i hate fixxing things which should have never been a problem in the first place
[13:09:58] <witnit> i mean, if you buy a mill and you have to resurface the table before you even use it once... thats bad
[13:10:47] <enleth> witnit: aren't all laser tubes prone to degradation? Not sure if buying a used one, even well made, is a good idea
[13:10:51] <Erant> My chinese mill was surprisingly not that horrible in that respect. The table's square enough that I can't measure how much it's out with a dial test indicator.
[13:11:17] <Erant> (That said, I did need a replacement x-slide because the dovetails were out)
[13:11:20] <witnit> enleth, you could buy a low hours machine which is broke and still be 10 times better off than a new one which will break anyhow
[13:11:36] <enleth> witnit: *if* the tube is still good, yeah
[13:12:00] <enleth> but the owner must have been a dumbass to sell a "broken" laser cutter with a good high quality tube
[13:12:00] <witnit> its just a trade off, generally speaking though. im not talking specifics on a tube
[13:12:07] <Erant> It's a gamble either way, right.
[13:12:19] <enleth> witnit: generally speaking doesn't quite apply here I think
[13:12:28] <Erant> Either the Chinese one is shit, or the used one has more hours than you think.
[13:13:07] <Erant> HoloPed: What are you engraving?
[13:13:28] <Erant> If it's wood, you can probably get a big honking laser diode for like <$200
[13:14:00] <HoloPed> Erant, wood :) I got an L-Cheapo Mark3 (3.5w)
[13:14:24] <witnit> well if you dont mind splices and tape and shorted out HV lines running in your work area then just buy another chinese laser
[13:14:25] <HoloPed> I'm printing the mount right now, will install the laser laster tonight or tomorrow
[13:15:11] <Erant> 3.5W of IR, I'm assuing?
[13:15:15] <Erant> assuming*
[13:15:59] <HoloPed> Erant, 440nm
[13:16:38] <enleth> witnit: I'm just buying another tube and overhauling this one. mechanically it's good enough
[13:17:12] <Erant> Interesting. Wonder why UV rather than IR.
[13:17:28] <Erant> Most commercial laser cutters are way more towards the IR (800+nm)
[13:34:27] <HoloPed> co2 (ir) is good for cutting
[13:34:35] <HoloPed> blue is good for low power and engraving
[13:36:06] <HoloPed> Erant, thanks to bluray burners, there are a lot of cheap blue laser diods on the market
[13:36:21] <HoloPed> so you will see that wavelength a lot with the smaller/cheaper units
[13:37:14] <enleth> any good, proven sources online on 1) testing a HV power supply without a tube, 2) installing a new tube properly to get mirror alignment right?
[13:38:34] <Erant> HoloPed: Yeah, unfortunately they can be shit.
[13:39:23] <Erant> One of my friends was on the board of Form-1, he mentioned how they started getting returns with broken laser diodes that had only run for a few hundred hours.
[13:39:54] <Erant> Turns out the BluRay diode manufacturers had started shipping cheap-o diodes because, what do people with BluRay burners do? They burn two, maybe three discs and then never use it again.
[13:44:18] <CaptHindsight> Erant: how did they deal with so many of the Form-1 staff having developmental issues? Or was that the backstory on Formlabs? Was it comprised of MIT alumni with disabilities?
[13:45:08] <Erant> Haha. I never got into that part with him. He himself is an MIT alumni, but not doing so bad, so. (bunnie huang, in case you're wondering)
[14:03:15] <enleth> bunnie is doing 3D printing?
[14:03:20] <enleth> nice
[14:14:48] <Loetmichel> SpeedEvil: 1mm sheet Brass, 1,5mm and 4mm sheet aluminium, 1mm zinc clad mild steel sheets.
[14:21:06] <Erant> enleth: bunnie's doing a lot of stuff. His main focus now is still electronics, but he wrote a book about Shenzen as well.
[14:38:24] <Sync_> enleth: read sams laser faq
[14:43:59] <JT-Shop> hmm I cut some stencil out last year on the plasma but now I forget how I did it :(
[14:44:16] <JT-Shop> seems to me I used TTT
[14:46:39] <enleth> Sync_: thanks, looks perfect
[14:52:44] <SpeedEvil> Loetmichel: are you perhaps getting it clogged?
[14:53:11] <Loetmichel> no, especially the scroll saw blades simply disappear
[14:53:15] <Loetmichel> the teeth
[14:53:32] <Loetmichel> it seems tehre are no decent scroll saw blades that can cope with metal
[14:53:33] <SpeedEvil> what sort of hacksaw?
[14:53:40] <Loetmichel> SCROLL SAW
[14:53:51] <SpeedEvil> ah
[14:54:20] <witnit> does anyone else find it EXTREMELY annoying a calculator is not bundled with the linuxcnc distro?
[14:54:22] <Loetmichel> hacsaw: this kind: http://www.amazon.de/Metall-B%C3%BCgels%C3%A4ge-30cm-24-Z%C3%A4hne/dp/B001U52NPO
[14:55:06] <SpeedEvil> witnit: bc?
[14:55:09] <Loetmichel> and the puk saw is this kind: http://www.amazon.de/C-K-T0836A-Mini-Metalls%C3%A4ge/dp/B002BDVAZS/ref=sr_1_16?s=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1457209752&sr=1-16&keywords=puk+s%C3%A4ge
[14:55:16] <witnit> bc?
[14:55:34] <Loetmichel> SpeedEvil: i even made an adapter to use the Puk blades in the scroll saw
[14:55:36] <SpeedEvil> xcalc?
[14:55:59] <SpeedEvil> afk, sorry
[14:56:02] <Loetmichel> seems to work slighty better than the scroll saw blades... but only sightly
[14:56:11] <witnit> okay so you mean xcalc is bundled but its not in the accessories list on the menu?
[14:56:14] <Loetmichel> getting about 10 cm before tha blade gets dull
[14:56:38] <Loetmichel> as opposed to about 2cm in 4mm aluminium i get with the original scroll saw blades
[14:56:51] <witnit> how are people supposed to expect calculator is spelled with an x
[14:58:01] <witnit> i get it, its a reference to the x gui but come on, how do i know this prior to making my own calculator from libre CALC since I can actually find it in the menu
[15:00:41] <JT-Shop> install linuxmint mate it has a calculator and auto log on
[15:02:06] <witnit> it just makes no sense to me, why would we have a cnc based version of linux and not put a calculator in the menu, yet... it has a million other things including games which are totally unrelated to cnc type work
[15:03:31] <gregcnc> calculator was there in the past
[15:03:34] <witnit> gnumeric bundled but not libre cad bundled... things like that
[15:03:44] <witnit> yeah when it was ubuntu I think
[15:05:49] <JT-Shop> you should try building a hybrid ISO
[15:06:40] <witnit> gschem, librecad, calculator, spreadsheets, and possibly a few 3D viewers, maybe some syntax highlighting for g-code... instead we got sudoku and minesweeper
[15:06:51] <witnit> j/s
[15:07:46] <JT-Shop> like I said you should try to build a hybrid ISO, I did
[15:07:59] <witnit> yeah, but then upkeep :/
[15:08:27] <gregcnc> upkeep?
[15:08:39] <witnit> i ended up just building an autologin at boot with autoload linuxcnc autoload ngc file and autoplay the file when machine is turned on :)
[15:08:50] <witnit> and do everything else on another machine
[15:10:46] <gregcnc> how many surf the web or do cad on their haas or mori?
[15:11:00] <witnit> or use a calculator?
[15:14:09] <witnit> gregcnc: by upkeep, I mean if I try to upgrade and im using a nonstandard build often things break
[15:15:01] <JT-Shop> not really, LinuxCNC will upgrade just fine on LinuxMint
[15:15:34] <witnit> it just seems to make more sense to convince someone in this room adding a calculator to the menu is not a bad idea
[15:15:54] <JT-Shop> wrong room
[15:16:12] <JT-Shop> that is one of the hundred reasons for this http://mesaus.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=68&product_id=72
[15:16:17] <witnit> shhh
[15:16:50] <witnit> ohhh nice!
[15:16:57] <witnit> i didnt realize you preloaded it
[15:16:59] <witnit> :)
[15:17:11] <witnit> I thought you were just selling a hdd when I was looking the other day
[15:18:11] <JT-Shop> yea, but I have to make a change so it will be monday or so before they are in stock. I forgot to put my g code generator and feed speed calculator on there
[15:18:40] <JT-Shop> hmm I need to change the title then
[15:19:11] <witnit> nice, I wrote a couple calculators for production turning work :)
[15:20:07] <JT-Shop> the unfinished one I have will generate G code for all kind of hole ops and has feed speed calculator
[15:20:17] <Tom_itx> loading very slow here
[15:20:39] <witnit> like bolt hole patterns?
[15:21:19] <JT-Shop> yea
[15:21:37] <JT-Shop> refresh that page and let me know if that better describes the product
[15:21:51] <JT-Shop> and tapping and all other ops for holes
[15:22:23] <Loetmichel> SpeedEvil: so no idea where to buy good blades for these three saws?
[15:22:42] <Loetmichel> that can cope with brass, zinc steel and aluminium sheets?
[15:23:43] <Tom_itx> maybe you should specify mesa ethernet cards
[15:23:46] <gregcnc> Is there not a quality saw blade supplier over there? We have Starrett and others here.
[15:24:19] <JT-Shop> I need to split that up for one part for RT-Preempt and one for RTAI
[15:24:41] <Tom_itx> with a link to the card example
[15:26:39] <JT-Shop> like links to the cards that work with that drive?
[15:26:42] <JT-Shop> good idea
[15:27:33] <Tom_itx> i'm a confused noob that has no idea what mesa or linuxcnc is but i got a wood platform cnc router with a dremel for a spindle and i need help
[15:27:34] <JT-Shop> every time I load a half sheet of 11 gauge on the plasma table I question the logic in placing it in the corner even though I'm getting better at loading them
[15:27:52] <JT-Shop> gotcha
[15:28:32] <gregcnc> i'm embarrassed to say I don't even know what preempt is for
[15:28:59] <Tom_itx> i'm not embarrased to say it...
[15:29:05] <Tom_itx> i'm not for sure either
[15:29:23] <Tom_itx> i just realize there are slightly different flavors for different needs
[15:29:23] <gregcnc> i've tried to figure it out
[15:29:43] <Tom_itx> preempt is required for ethernet i believe
[15:29:53] <gregcnc> that's the feeling I get
[15:30:13] <cpresser> its a term describing how the scheduler of the kernel works
[15:30:45] <gregcnc> why choose one over the other?
[15:30:48] <cpresser> afaik a preempt kernel is closer to realtime than a non preempt kernel
[15:31:54] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: if you have time refresh that page and take a look
[15:34:14] <witnit> the entire technology world is made up of lots of little systems built upon older systems which nobody ever clearly or fully understands in a broad manner. like the fact that we all make use of the binary system on a daily basis and very few of us can speak it
[15:34:30] <witnit> I dont know how we manage as humans :P
[15:35:46] <Duc_mobile> after dealing the standard level operator at a factory Im not sure how the human race is still alive
[15:36:30] * Jymmm shoves witnit outside a binary box
[15:38:49] <yasnak> when you get into the safespace and trigger videos on youtube, you begin to lose all faith in humanity. then you watch the gop debate and confirm it.
[15:39:04] <yasnak> well, back to machining
[15:40:24] <JT-Shop> well so much for that being a test run of the part, the torch was on...
[15:40:33] <witnit> hehehe
[15:40:33] <yasnak> lol
[15:40:47] <witnit> welp off to the shop myself happy weekend all
[15:41:50] <yasnak> since my surface 3 pro is a POS, i leave it on the machine with IRC open haha. I wish Microsoft would fix the issues with these things
[16:17:03] <JT-Shop> anyone know the command line for true type font?
[16:23:38] <JT-Shop> truetype-tracer
[16:29:43] <JT-Shop> well crap I get an otf drive table error with the stencil font that I used before and I don't remember having that kind of issue before
[16:30:42] <XXCoder> what has changed?
[16:31:43] <JT-Shop> nothing that I know of it's still ubuntu 10.04
[16:31:54] <JT-Shop> that is TTT throwing that error
[16:35:21] <JT-Shop> lol google says I had the same problem last time and had to run ttt from the directory where the stencil font is
[16:37:36] <kengu> JT-Shop: :)
[16:38:03] <XXCoder> lol nice
[16:41:01] <JT-Shop> nope reading the next day I gave up and used ttt3 I think
[16:41:29] <JT-Shop> but I seem to remember using ttt4 after 2.7 got fixed for nurbs
[16:42:15] <_methods> who you callin a nurb
[16:58:20] <Deejay> gn8
[16:58:26] <JT-Shop> night
[16:58:30] <JT-Shop> emc@LinuxCNC ~/fonts/corruptor $ truetype-tracer -f Corruptor-LDR.ttf 'Spyder' > spyder.ngc
[16:58:30] <JT-Shop> OTF_drive_tables:686: OTF-Error (Invalid table): OTF Table Read (table not found)
[16:58:47] <JT-Shop> every stencil font I try gives the above error with ttt
[17:00:50] <JT-Shop> oh wait one worked
[17:14:32] <Tom_itx> sry JT-Shop, i left
[17:16:03] <Tom_itx> looks better
[17:17:07] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I guess that googling your evil error ways is one way of learning from your mistakes ;)
[17:17:45] <Jymmm> Nobody ever said you had to REMEMBER what you learned ;)
[17:18:14] <Tom_itx> or where your mistakes are stored for future reference
[17:18:27] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: When you get these cut, post some pics
[17:18:37] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: google knows!
[17:18:51] <Tom_itx> nosey bastards
[17:19:36] <Jymmm> tell me about it
[17:29:46] <XXCoder> this is why CS highly recommand you to keep up a joural - it leaves a record of mistakes you did and what you did to fix it
[17:30:19] <XXCoder> it also leaves a record if you are sued for not doing something when you did
[17:30:26] <XXCoder> among many other stuff
[17:31:12] <Jymmm> CS ?
[17:31:17] <XXCoder> computer science
[17:31:39] <XXCoder> its decent idea for any skillset thats not flipping burgers really
[17:32:13] <Jymmm> Hell no, destroy any and all existiance of such events ... plausable denability
[17:32:34] <Tom_itx> burgers and politicians
[17:47:01] <jdh> it gives you things to put on your annual eval
[17:50:04] <andypugh> My entry for the “most unusual tap in the world” competition. I bought it on eBay and it arrivd today M15.05 x 0.5mm
[17:51:36] <andypugh> I have no idea what it was for originally. I am going to hob a super-fine worm-wheel with it. The 15.05 is probably because it was to cut a plated hole. But who plates an M15 x 0.5 thread? It’s a non-preferred diamter and super-fine
[17:53:24] <Sync_> some adjustment thing probably
[17:53:44] <Sync_> plating for gall resistance or something
[17:54:11] <Sync_> are you sure it is 15.05 and not 15.5?
[17:54:27] <andypugh> Yes, absilutely sure
[17:54:53] <Sync_> because if it would be 15.5 I'd have one too
[17:55:07] <andypugh> What for?
[17:55:15] <Sync_> optical retaining rings
[17:55:27] <Sync_> it's a common size
[17:55:33] <andypugh> Is that actually some strange standard?
[17:55:54] <Sync_> more or less, yes
[17:56:28] <andypugh> Somebody must have invented that to annoy competitors
[17:56:36] <Sync_> it is that way so you can get nominal dia optics in there
[17:56:45] <andypugh> What’s the pitch?
[17:56:48] <Sync_> .5
[17:57:53] <andypugh> FWIW I cut a 1.5 inch dia x 1.5mm pitch thread last week just using a lathe internal threading tool, a boring head in the mill, and G33.1
[17:58:31] <andypugh> And if you can spin the parts in a lathe, then you don’t need the boring head
[17:59:05] <Sync_> hm, it still seems to be custom tooling, but eh
[17:59:27] <Sync_> did you measure the outside diameter?
[17:59:44] <andypugh> Of the tap?
[17:59:53] <Sync_> yes
[18:00:40] <andypugh> I just did it now. I have been had! It’s 15.11mm OD!
[18:00:47] <Sync_> I think they mill the threads in the holders, or pay out their asses for custom super shallow bottoming taps
[18:04:39] <andypugh> Sync_: This is a special case, with a home-made tool and an external thread, but you can use the same cycle with a conventional lathe internal threading single-point tool. https://youtu.be/i4fTythQj5s?t=58s
[18:05:38] <yasnak> threadmilling ftw
[18:05:58] <Sync_> interesting design
[18:06:08] <yasnak> gunther at schwanog for custom threads
[18:06:24] <Sync_> the finish looks awful
[18:06:56] <andypugh> Yeah, home-made tool. It’s still working
[18:07:36] <andypugh> ie, it takes all the X-axis thrust of my milling machine and hasn’t let go yet.
[18:07:50] <yasnak> lol
[18:08:17] <andypugh> I was hoping for better, but I couldn’t fit any conventional tool in there, not even a thread-mill.
[18:08:51] <andypugh> I was always expecting to bore for a steel insert, I still half-expect to have to.
[18:09:16] <Sync_> doesn't look that tight
[18:09:26] <Sync_> there should be plenty of 1.5mm threadmills that fit in there
[18:11:01] <andypugh> Well, perhaps I should say “nothign that I had or was prepared to buy”
[18:11:55] <andypugh> What I am saying is that it is another way to cut a thread. It works and is an alternative to a thread-mill or a tap.
[18:13:53] <andypugh> This internal thread (which you can’t see) was cut the same way. (boring head and G33.1) and came out very well. https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/Holbrook#6258719269196398482
[18:15:49] <XXCoder> NICE! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCXH4AN2aog
[18:15:58] <andypugh> This has some rather special thread-milling. Thread-milling M2 threads in titanium. http://www.f1-2000.co.uk/index.php?f=conrods
[18:16:01] <XXCoder> that is big upgrade since his first version that one sucked
[18:17:28] <Sync_> I'm not so sure if the original screws are Ti
[18:19:24] <andypugh> Sync_: I probably will refrain from telling him that. :-)
[18:20:01] <Sync_> well, if he goes to that lengths to get it right
[18:20:13] <andypugh> He’s a loony :-)
[18:20:19] <Sync_> hondas screws were some high strength alloy steel
[18:21:06] <Sync_> and differentially threaded iirc
[18:21:25] <andypugh> XXCoder: He still seems to have successfully avoided any competent engineering.
[18:21:46] <Sync_> yup
[18:21:48] <XXCoder> it seemed to me that guys great hobby builder though. way better than me
[18:22:02] <XXCoder> in end it dont really matter, that guy had fun
[18:22:10] <XXCoder> and I'm having fun watching
[18:23:47] <andypugh> XXCoder: Yes, he had fun, but some parts of the design are just horrible, for no good reason. Like the intermediate gear wood block is set bacj to make the cantilever shaft super-long for maximum floppiness. And they don’t have to be.
[18:24:27] <XXCoder> why not try build one
[18:24:44] <XXCoder> I'm curious on how you would do, using only cheap materials and 2 drills
[18:25:03] <andypugh> If I was building a robot I would be building one for the new series of Robotwars.
[18:25:24] <XXCoder> I wonder how spheric design would succeed in robot wars
[18:26:01] <XXCoder> it cant be flipped and hard to damage but VERY easy to push I'd guess. and head isnt physically bolted on just magnets.
[18:26:35] <XXCoder> though not sure how it would damage other bots lol
[18:26:48] <Sync_> andypugh: the problem with Ti on Ti is the bad surface tribology
[18:26:51] <XXCoder> maybe by running around till other bot runs out of power
[18:27:02] <XXCoder> new word, gonna look
[18:27:18] <andypugh> XXCoder: You asked a very valid question. it’s been a long time since I had to make anything with no materials and no tools.
[18:27:20] <Sync_> he'll at least need to get hard anodizing on one side
[18:27:56] <XXCoder> andypugh: not nesscarily as guy used a drill press and basic tools, and wood plastics
[18:28:10] <XXCoder> 2 drills, some arudino, and some misc hardware
[18:28:13] <andypugh> And 3D printing
[18:28:41] <XXCoder> that too. that ones bit out of most people "haves" list
[18:28:55] <Sync_> o0
[18:29:08] <andypugh> I have had access to a lathe for my whole life, so I can’t really imagine trying to do anythign without one.
[18:29:08] <XXCoder> Sync_: Ti on Ti causes more wear?
[18:29:12] <Sync_> no
[18:29:14] <XXCoder> if not hard anodized
[18:29:20] <Sync_> it will cold weld
[18:29:29] <XXCoder> h self-reactive eh
[18:29:40] <andypugh> Milk of Magnesia?
[18:29:59] <Sync_> well, you could probably get away with something like that
[18:30:14] <Sync_> but in general if you have Ti bolts, you need surface treatment
[18:30:23] <XXCoder> intresting
[18:30:38] <XXCoder> whats other negative properies of Ti?
[18:31:01] <andypugh> Difficult to weld
[18:31:17] <andypugh> You need to shield the back-side of the weld.
[18:31:23] <XXCoder> guys using 3 deodorizers as bearing for head
[18:31:31] <Sync_> no, you need to shield it super well from oxygen
[18:31:37] <Sync_> just purging the back is not enough
[18:31:43] <Sync_> or just barely acceptable
[18:31:45] <XXCoder> works and very light which is important as head is held by magnets only
[18:31:52] <XXCoder> balsa wood too
[18:31:58] <andypugh> Though I had good success spot-welding Ti on my Robotwars robot years ago, as spot-welds are self-shielding
[18:32:42] <Sync_> I just built a purge chamber for the few parts I had to do at work
[18:32:55] <Sync_> connected it to a MS and everything was well
[18:33:16] <XXCoder> Sync_: not surpised as that "family" of metals is pretty reactive.
[18:33:43] <XXCoder> I wonder if Ti also instantly coats with Ti oxide on exposure just like alum does?
[18:33:52] <Sync_> yes
[18:33:59] <Sync_> but the layer is thinner
[18:34:12] <XXCoder> I wonder if that means we can make Ti gems
[18:34:36] <Sync_> o0
[18:34:48] <XXCoder> there IS alum gems after all
[18:36:03] <Sync_> well sure
[18:36:12] <Sync_> there is rutile, which is mostly tio2
[18:36:56] <XXCoder> interesting looking gem
[18:37:32] <XXCoder> tend to have large numver of internal detail
[18:37:33] <Sync_> it is soft tho
[18:38:20] <andypugh> benitoite
[18:38:47] <XXCoder> pretty tempted to grab a sample heh
[18:39:33] <XXCoder> apparently it is very cheao
[18:39:33] <andypugh> It’s very pretty
[18:39:49] <Sync_> yeah, the blue is nice
[18:40:05] <Sync_> unfortunately you can't really make large TiN crystals
[18:40:17] <XXCoder> blue? most I see is usually clear with yellow crystals embedded in it
[18:40:47] <andypugh> XXCoder: Rutile or Benitoite?
[18:40:53] <XXCoder> rutile
[18:41:07] <andypugh> We weren't
[18:41:19] <XXCoder> googled "pure titanium crystal" different results, blue like you said
[18:44:55] <XXCoder> http://www.minerals.net/search_results.aspx?q=titanium few gems has Ti as compoment
[18:45:04] <XXCoder> but seems no pure "Ti rust" gem
[18:45:43] <andypugh> TiO2 is very white. It’s the main pigment in white paint.
[18:45:47] <XXCoder> ah I'm wrong
[18:45:57] <XXCoder> http://www.minerals.net/mineral/rutile.aspx
[18:46:12] <XXCoder> not pure but pretty close
[18:46:52] <XXCoder> heh I do enjoy readng about crystals sometimes, but I get annoyed when guy call me crystal healer or some bullshit term
[18:47:16] <XXCoder> crystal is crystal. no "vibo" or "aura cleasiung" or whatever
[18:49:10] <andypugh> Yes, no reason to invent mystical powers. crystals are interesting enough anyway
[18:49:17] <XXCoder> Sync_: curious why cant make large TiO2 crystals
[18:49:24] <XXCoder> indeed andy'
[18:50:06] <andypugh> Have you seen these photos? http://s.ngm.com/2008/11/crystal-giants/img/crystal-cave-615.jpg
[18:50:31] <XXCoder> yeah! too bad the area is imical to human life
[18:50:41] <XXCoder> wasntg it around 90C with dangerous air?
[18:50:46] <andypugh> Yes
[18:50:55] <XXCoder> in a way thats good
[18:50:59] <XXCoder> people would take samples.
[18:51:11] <andypugh> And I think they sealed it back up and allowed it to re-fill
[18:51:15] <Jymmm> XXCoder: that's not an issue as much as people are resticted from visiting AT ALL
[18:51:22] <pcw_home> TIO2 is by far the most common white pigment (due to its extremely high refractive index)
[18:51:36] <XXCoder> one of my favorites is ape cave, people keeps touching walls when we really should not
[18:51:44] <XXCoder> Jymmm: I know.
[18:52:02] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Cause I'd REALLY REALLY like to visit that
[18:52:21] <XXCoder> it takes walls long time to regrow from damage from touching :( VERY low energy ecosystem
[18:52:40] <andypugh> A friend of mine elsewhere was talking about Vantablack, and said it had a very low libido. I suspect that puns don’t work so well when most of your audience don’t know the word you switched.
[18:52:45] <XXCoder> I see names that was probably there for lasy 20 years
[18:52:59] <Jymmm> XXCoder: I'd even wear a pink bunny suit to not contaminate anything
[18:53:16] <XXCoder> Jymmm: me too. I am willing to suffer to protect and get to see it.
[18:53:22] <_methods> you wear the bunny suit all the time anyways
[18:53:36] <_methods> you and your boyfriend furrywolf
[18:54:07] <_methods> :)
[18:55:18] <andypugh> I only recently realised I was one of the first doen people up here, about 5 years before it was publically announced: http://www.grough.co.uk/images/stories/Titan1.jpg
[18:55:24] <andypugh> (dozen)
[18:57:16] <andypugh> More details. http://www.peakspeedwell.info/index.php/entrances/titan-shaft
[18:59:47] <XXCoder> looking
[19:00:32] <XXCoder> andypugh: you actually looked upon those crystals? dang
[19:00:48] <andypugh> No, no, nothing like that.
[19:01:10] <andypugh> Just a huge hole a friend of a frienc found in the UK
[19:01:40] <XXCoder> oh lol ok
[19:02:20] <andypugh> He did it an interesting way, he found a comment in a document in a library, and that gave him the drive to dig out sedimented-up passages for a couple of years.
[19:03:08] <andypugh> And then he found the deepest vertical shaft in the UK. It’s rather odd to think that there is stuff still to be discovered in the UK.
[19:03:31] <XXCoder> yeah
[19:04:02] <andypugh> There are actually places in the UK that I have veen the first to ever visit, but nothing on the scale of Titan.
[19:04:27] <andypugh> I have only ever found a few feet of barely man-sized passage
[19:04:40] <XXCoder> after all internal volume grows at x^3 while surface is at 2x^2Pi
[19:04:48] <XXCoder> so there is lot to explore lol
[19:06:24] <andypugh> A tourist once asked a cave guide in Mammoth cave who I used to chat with the only truly stupid question I have heard “So, how many miles of unexplored passage is there in this cave?”
[19:06:44] <XXCoder> the answer is infinite.
[19:07:17] <XXCoder> weird hack https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2DQcurEsGQ&feature=em-subs_digest
[19:12:11] <gregcnc> VTL w/live tool?
[19:14:26] <XXCoder> VTL?
[19:15:30] <gregcnc> vertical turret lathe
[19:15:41] <XXCoder> oh
[19:15:51] <XXCoder> he made that rotating thing last video
[20:31:33] <Crom> ARRRRRRGH!!!!! damn sewing machine... bottom tension is basically nothing, top is a bit it's basically at the least top and bottom I can do and it's still puckering
[20:32:08] <Jymmm> Crom: fabric?
[20:32:37] <Jymmm> Crom: what fabric?
[20:33:06] <Jymmm> Crom: and 3.5 is typical tension setting
[20:33:10] <Jymmm> 3 to 3.5
[20:33:16] <Jymmm> for most fabrics
[20:34:21] <Crom> country classic cotton, it's a Juki 5550 commercial straight stitch
[20:35:32] <Jymmm> Crom: just a straight foot?
[20:35:35] <Crom> I guess I'll loosen the bottom tension even more...
[20:35:57] <Jymmm> Crom: WHAT is puckering, the fabric or the thread?
[20:35:58] <Crom> brand new straight foot, new need plate and feed dogs
[20:36:06] <Crom> brand new straight foot, new needle plate and feed dogs
[20:36:31] <Jymmm> Crom: WHAT is puckering, the fabric or the thread?
[20:36:34] <Crom> fabric, since the thread tension is a bit too tight still
[20:37:11] <Crom> timing is perfect too
[20:38:33] <Jymmm> Crom: is it threaded properly? Maybe rethread the entire thing? (not the bobbin)
[20:38:42] <Jymmm> Crom: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIu7-Hy4HKg
[20:40:02] <Jymmm> Crom: are you using a heavy thread?
[20:40:04] <Crom> correctly threaded.
[20:40:13] <Crom> nah, pretty light
[20:41:46] <Crom> I hate using light thread and cloth... This machine with 23 needle and heavy tent thread and 8 layers of 8oz duck is great!
[20:42:34] <Crom> using a 60/10 needle with light thread on silk is really hard to setup for
[20:43:11] <Jymmm> way above my paygrade =)
[20:43:34] <Crom> this country classic quilting fabric (Cheap) with a 14 needle and light thread is really hard to setup for as well...
[20:44:01] <Crom> it just doesn't have the adjustment down at the light end of things...
[20:44:10] <Jymmm> but tension on THAT machine should be a non issue
[20:44:39] <Crom> like the drag of the thread just coming out of the bobbin is too much
[20:45:10] <Jymmm> remove the thing that holds the bobbin and blow it out with a can of air
[20:45:26] <Crom> DOH! let me check the bobbin carrier for built up felt
[20:45:26] <Jymmm> then reinsert it and the bobbin
[20:45:53] <Crom> heh yeah what you said.. no cabn of air... just air compressor
[20:46:02] <Jymmm> eh, whatever =)